From reimann at BERKELEY.EDU Sun Mar 1 07:03:29 2009 From: reimann at BERKELEY.EDU (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 09 23:03:29 -0800 Subject: Krishna as Vishnu In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085141.23782.499178176739315893.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 520 Lines: 20 on 2/28/2009 5:04 AM Harsha Dehejia wrote: > Friends: > > I am researching multi-arm images of Krishna. > It seems to be that at some point Krishna ceases to be an avatara and becomes Vishnu himself. > This book will be useful. Matchett, Freda. 2001. Krsna, Lord or Avatara?: The Relationship Between Krsna and Visnu in the Context of the Avatara Myth As Presented by the Harivamsa, the Visnupurana and the Bhagavatapurana. Curzon Studies in Asian Religion. Richmond: Curzon. Regards, Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann From cbpicron at GMX.DE Sun Mar 1 09:35:40 2009 From: cbpicron at GMX.DE (Claudine Bautze-Picron) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 09 10:35:40 +0100 Subject: Krishna as Vishnu In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085147.23782.15207629822217055575.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 973 Lines: 51 Not to forget, on the early period: Herbert H?rtel, ? Archaeological Evidence on the Early V?sudeva Worship ?, Orientalia Iosephi Tucci Memoriae Dicata, ?d. G. Gnoli et L. Lanciotti, Rome : Istituto Italiano per il Medio ed Estremo Oriente, 1987, pp. 573-87. CBP. -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Harsha Dehejia Sent: Samstag, 28. Februar 2009 14:04 To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Krishna as Vishnu Friends: I am researching multi-arm images of Krishna. It seems to be that at some point Krishna ceases to be an avatara and becomes Vishnu himself. A case in point is Jagganath Puri where Krishna is Jagganath, an appellation reserved for Vishnu. A Nepali stone image (?12 th century) that I recently saw shows Krishna with 8 arms holding even a Sudarshan chakra. Am I on the right track? Any help would be appreciated. Regards. Harsha V. Dehejia Ottawa, ON., Canada. From pkoskikallio at GMAIL.COM Sun Mar 1 09:16:49 2009 From: pkoskikallio at GMAIL.COM (Petteri Koskikallio) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 09 11:16:49 +0200 Subject: The 2nd Prakrit Summer School Message-ID: <161227085143.23782.11982072819662163450.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 724 Lines: 29 Dear Friends, We are pleased to announce the 2nd Prakrit Summer School (Aug 17-28, 2009). The two-week introductory course in Jaina-Maharastri, held in Finland in 2007, will make a reappearance, this time in the city of W?rzburg, Germany. The Summer School is again going to focus on the Jain epic and narrative material. Further details as well as memories from the first meeting are available on the website: http://www.indologie.uni-wuerzburg.de/prakrit_summer_school/ Please inform any students who may be interested in participating. With best wishes, Eva De Clercq (evadeclercq at gmail.com) Anna Aurelia Esposito (anna.esposito at mail.uni-wuerzburg.de) Petteri Koskikallio (pkoskikallio at gmail.com) From axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE Sun Mar 1 16:47:56 2009 From: axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE (Axel Michaels) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 09 16:47:56 +0000 Subject: Professur in Buddhist Studies Message-ID: <161227085150.23782.15801164370071007481.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2893 Lines: 45 k?nnten Sie sich vorstellen f?r unsere Profess Liebe Frau Kellner, k?nnten Sie sich vorstellen f?r unsere Professur in Buddhist Studies im Rahmen des Exzellenzclusters "Asia and Europe in a Global Context" zu erw?rmen? Vielleicht haben Sie davon geh?rt. Urspr?nglich war sie ausgeschrieben mit einem Fokus auf Ostasien, doch hat sich dies jetzt ge?ndert, denn wir suchen nun auch nach KandidatInnen, die vom Indischen Buddhismus (Sanskrit, Pali) kommen. Es versteht sich, da? wir wir dabei auch an Sie denken. Hier die urspr?ngliche Ausschreibung: Professorship in Buddhist Studies The dispersion of Buddhism offers one of the richest historical archives of a transcultural flow in human history and can serve as an important testing ground for theories about the relationship between power projection and cultural flows. A Professorship in Buddhist Studies will be established. It will deal with the different aspects of the transcultural flow of Buddhism in history and modern times; will bring together scholars with a South Asian, an East Asian and a Western focus in this common endeavor; will cooperate in the development of the databases on translingual concepts and transcultural images; and will contribute to the development of teaching programs with a transcultural focus. Qualifications include a strong record of scholarly publications in Buddhist Studies; the proven capacity to handle original sources in at least two of the major Buddhist languages including Classical Chinese; a strong record in Chinese intellectual history; and a visible commitment to cross-disciplinary and transcultural studies. The position will come with a joint appointment at the Centre for East Asian Studies with institutional links to the South Asia Institute, Religious Studies, and Philosophy. Weitere Informationen zum Cluster finden Sie auf unserer Homepage: http://www.vjc.uni-hd.de/ Die Professur ist eine volle (W3-)Professur auf Lebenszeit. Sie w?re w?hrend der Laufzeit des Clusters dort angesiedelt, danach in Ihrem Fall vermutlich am S?dasien-Institut oder dem Zentrum f?r Ostasienwissenschaften. Falls Sie Interesse haben, w?rden wir Sie gerne zu einem Vortrag im April/Mai einladen. Wir k?nnen aber gerne vorher auch noch einmal telefonieren. Ich bin jederzeit bereit, Ihnen bei eventuellen Fragen zu helfen. Bitte z?gern Sie nicht, mich zu kontaktieren. Mit besten Gr??en und W?nschen Ihr Axel Michaels Prof. Dr. Axel Michaels (Speaker of the Collaborative Research Center (SFB) 619 "Dynamics of Ritual"; Co-Director of the Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe"), University of Heidelberg, South Asia Institute, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, D-69120 Heidelberg, Tel. +49-6221-548917 / Fax +49-6221-546338, http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/index.html, http://www.ritualdynamik.uni-hd.de, http://vjc.uni-hd.de, Axel.Michaels at urz.uni-heidelberg.de From axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE Sun Mar 1 16:50:36 2009 From: axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE (Axel Michaels) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 09 16:50:36 +0000 Subject: AW: Professur in Buddhist Studies Message-ID: <161227085152.23782.16830071075563593803.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 168 Lines: 9 I am deeply sorry to have sent a private mail to the Dear colleagues, I am deeply sorry to have sent a private mail to the list. Please ignore it. Axel Michaels From pankajaindia at GMAIL.COM Tue Mar 3 12:40:34 2009 From: pankajaindia at GMAIL.COM (Pankaj Jain) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 09 12:40:34 +0000 Subject: Jainism courses in North America and Europe Message-ID: <161227085155.23782.15607681979462467227.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2503 Lines: 82 Here is the list of professors who responded to my Jainism query (in alphabetical order of their last names). All of them have offered or plan to offer Jainism as a major part of one or several of their courses. This list will also be added to http://www.JainStudies.org soon. 1. Dr. Christopher Key Chapple Doshi Professor of Indic and Comparative Theology University Hall, Room 3763 Loyola Marymount University Los Angeles, CA 90045. USA 310-338-2846; fax: 310-338-1947 http://myweb.lmu.edu/cchapple/ 2. Dr. Donald Davis Dept of Languages and Cultures of Asia University of Wisconsin-Madison, WI. USA http://lca.wisc.edu/facstaff/faculty/davis.htm 3. Dr. Hope K. Fitz Professor of Philosophy Eastern Connecticut State University Webb Hall # 356 Willimantic, CT 06226. USA fitzh at easternct.edu 4. Dr. Peter Fl?gel, Department of the Study of Religions, Faculty of Arts and Humanities, School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London, Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square, London WC1H OXG, England. E- mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies/ 5. Sarah Hadmack Windward Community College University of Hawaii minnis at hawaii.edu 6. Andrea Jain, Doctoral Candidate, Dept. of Religious Studies, Rice University Houston, TX 77005-1892, arjain at rice.edu 7. Dr. Pankaj Jain Department of Religious Studies North Carolina State University Raleigh, NC. USA pankajaindia at gmail.com http://www.IndicUniversity.org 8. Dr. Karen Lang Professor Department of Religious Studies and Director Center for South Asian Studies, Halsey Hall University of Virginia, Charlottesville, VA. USA http://www.virginia.edu/facultyexperts/expert.php?id=326 9. Dr. Jeffery D. Long Chair, Steering Committee, Dharma Association of North America Associate Professor and Chair, Religious Studies, Elizabethtown College Co-Director, Asian Studies Minor, Elizabethtown College Elizabethtown, PA 17022, USA 10. Samani Charitra Prajna and Samani Unnata Pragya, Florida International University, Miami, USA http://religion.fiu.edu/People/Adjuncts.TAs/Samani%20Charitra%20Prajna.htm 11. Dr. Natubhai Shah, University of Antwerp, Netherlands 12. Dr. Anne Vallely Assistant Professor Department of Classics and Religious Studies University of Ottawa 70 Laurier, Ottawa K1B 6N5, Canada avallely at uottawa.ca annevallely at gmail.com 13. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos The Institute of Indology University of Munich, Germany http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~zydenbos/index-eng.html From jemhouben at GMAIL.COM Tue Mar 3 18:29:44 2009 From: jemhouben at GMAIL.COM (Jan Houben) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 09 19:29:44 +0100 Subject: announcement: proceedings of symposium PLUS summaries in skt Message-ID: <161227085158.23782.6279505595185458022.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2561 Lines: 49 The refereed proceedings of the Third International Symposium on Sanskrit Computational Linguistics (Hyderabad, 15-17 January 2009) are available (in fact they have been available from the first day of the symposium onwards): http://www.informatik.uni-trier.de/~ley/db/journals/lncs5400-5499.html The organisers of this symposium have set a new standard for international sanskrit conferences and for intercultural linguistics by providing, in addition, in a separate publication (41 pages) entitled Ga.nakapaa.niniiyam, the sanskrit abstracts of the papers in these proceedings [plus an extra brief paper (in English) on the Sanskrit Grammar Machine by Gunderao Harakare (1887-1979)], which is published by the Sanskrit Academy, Osmania, 2009 (http://www.osmania.ac.in/sanskritacademy/Research/Publication.html; I did not see publications after 2004 in the list). The sanskrit translation of abstracts, by Dr. Srinivas Varakhedi and his team, is an achievement in itself as it is one of very few attempts to deal IN SANSKRIT with modern linguistic concepts (another more elaborate attempt I am aware of is G.B. Palsule's work on Indo-European linguistics written in Sanskrit, entitled Yubhaata.h sa.msk.rtam prati). A few examples from Ga.nakapaa.niniiyam (2009): morphology (in one sense) becomes: prak.rti-pratyaya-vivecanam; (n.b. "morphology" is neither in MW's English Skt nor in Apte's English Skt) word formation: pada-ni.spatti.h; syntax: vaakya-sa.mracanaa, with explanation (needed because of modern syntacticians' work is often mainly based on languages with largely fixed word order:) vaakye pada-krama-niyama.h; derivational word-generating device (as characterisation of A.s.taadhyaayii): dhaatu-praatipadika-pratyaya-yojanena pada-ni.spaadaka.m yantram; "Questions of linguistic development, of historic sound change ... lie outside Paa.nini's interest" (from S.D. Joshi's contribution): bhaa.sotpatti-vi.sayinii jij?aasaa, bhaa.saayaa.m var.na-parivartana-krama-vi.sayako vicaara.h ... paa.nine.h vicaara-paridhau naantarbhavanti S.D. Joshi, in his Keynote Address "Background of the A.s.taadhyaayii", writes: "Is the A.s.taadhyaayii rightly called a grammar?" The spirit of this question will obviously be missed if 'grammar' would be translated as vyaakara.na. Varakhedi et al.'s solution: kim a.s.taadhyaayyaa.h 'graamar' (bhaa.saa-niyama-sa:ngraha.h) iti naama samucitam? S.D. Joshi: "grammar developed in Greece and Rome is paradigmatic, "rom-grii;s (sic) de;sayo.h vyaakara.na.m aadar;sa-ruupaadhaarita.m dariid.r;syate": Jan Houben From geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR Wed Mar 4 07:31:51 2009 From: geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR (Alexandra Vandergeer) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 09 09:31:51 +0200 Subject: announcement: proceedings of symposium PLUS summaries in skt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085161.23782.18164602557549957354.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3054 Lines: 67 I wonder, does Dr. Srinivas Varakhedi and his team also have words for coputer, computational, unicode fonts, printer, word strings, parser, recursive, and regular expressions? Personally, if I would have to do the job, I would have considered these terms loan-words, as most living languages do today. Same with submodern items like coffee and train. Alexandra van der Geer Athens > The refereed proceedings of the Third International Symposium on Sanskrit > Computational Linguistics (Hyderabad, 15-17 January 2009) are available > (in > fact they have been available from the first day of the symposium > onwards): > http://www.informatik.uni-trier.de/~ley/db/journals/lncs5400-5499.html > The organisers of this symposium have set a new standard for international > sanskrit conferences and for intercultural linguistics by providing, in > addition, in a separate publication (41 pages) entitled > Ga.nakapaa.niniiyam, > the sanskrit abstracts of the papers in these proceedings [plus an extra > brief paper (in English) on the Sanskrit Grammar Machine by Gunderao > Harakare (1887-1979)], which is published by the Sanskrit Academy, > Osmania, > 2009 (http://www.osmania.ac.in/sanskritacademy/Research/Publication.html; > I > did not see publications after 2004 in the list). > The sanskrit translation of abstracts, by Dr. Srinivas Varakhedi and his > team, is an achievement in itself as it is one of very few attempts to > deal > IN SANSKRIT with modern linguistic concepts (another more > elaborate attempt I am aware of is G.B. Palsule's work on Indo-European > linguistics written in Sanskrit, entitled Yubhaata.h sa.msk.rtam prati). > > A few examples from Ga.nakapaa.niniiyam (2009): > morphology (in one sense) becomes: prak.rti-pratyaya-vivecanam; > (n.b. "morphology" is neither in MW's English Skt nor in Apte's English > Skt) > word formation: pada-ni.spatti.h; > syntax: vaakya-sa.mracanaa, with explanation (needed because of modern > syntacticians' work is often mainly based on languages with largely fixed > word order:) vaakye pada-krama-niyama.h; > derivational word-generating device (as characterisation of > A.s.taadhyaayii): > dhaatu-praatipadika-pratyaya-yojanena pada-ni.spaadaka.m yantram; > "Questions of linguistic development, of historic sound change ... lie > outside Paa.nini's interest" (from S.D. Joshi's contribution): > bhaa.sotpatti-vi.sayinii jij??aasaa, bhaa.saayaa.m > var.na-parivartana-krama-vi.sayako vicaara.h ... paa.nine.h > vicaara-paridhau > naantarbhavanti > S.D. Joshi, in his Keynote Address "Background of the A.s.taadhyaayii", > writes: > "Is the A.s.taadhyaayii rightly called a grammar?" > The spirit of this question will obviously be missed if 'grammar' would be > translated as vyaakara.na. > Varakhedi et al.'s solution: > kim a.s.taadhyaayyaa.h 'graamar' (bhaa.saa-niyama-sa:ngraha.h) iti naama > samucitam? > S.D. Joshi: "grammar developed in Greece and Rome is paradigmatic, > "rom-grii;s (sic) de;sayo.h vyaakara.na.m aadar;sa-ruupaadhaarita.m > dariid.r;syate": > > Jan Houben > From franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Wed Mar 4 10:17:48 2009 From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE (franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 09 11:17:48 +0100 Subject: Publication announcement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085164.23782.7028647760580028949.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 475 Lines: 19 Just published: Thomas K. Gugler, Ozeanisches Gef?hl der Unsterblichkeit. Der Krishnamritarnava des Madhva Sanskrittext mit annotierter ?bersetzung nebst Einf?hrung in Madhvas Leben, Lehre, Werke und Wirken. Leipziger Studien zu Kultur und Geschichte S?d- und Zentralasins 3 LIT Verlag 2009 ISBN 978-3-8258-1140-2 Best wishes, Eli Franco ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Mar 4 23:36:13 2009 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 09 18:36:13 -0500 Subject: announcement: proceedings of symposium PLUS summaries in skt Message-ID: <161227085167.23782.1378125712284053850.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 886 Lines: 16 I would think that since Sanskrit creates abstractions with great ease, it would be more reasonable to invent words for these (at least arguably) abstract entities from Sanskrit roots and vocabulary rather than to borrow the English. They aren't like Realien like "coffee." Anyway, modern languages differ radically in the extent to which they expand vocabulary by borrowing rather than by translation, invention from native vocabulary, calqueing, or the like, don't they? Allen Thrasher "I wonder, does Dr. Srinivas Varakhedi and his team also have words for computer, computational, unicode fonts, printer, word strings, parser, recursive, and regular expressions? Personally, if I would have to do the job, I would have considered these terms loan-words, as most living languages do today. Same with submodern items like coffee and train. Alexandra van der Geer Athens" From acollins at GCI.NET Thu Mar 5 19:19:52 2009 From: acollins at GCI.NET (Alfred Collins) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 09 10:19:52 -0900 Subject: Seeking paper proposals on culture theory and contemporary culture In-Reply-To: <20090305T135819Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227085181.23782.13554015281766526290.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1266 Lines: 25 I am organizing a panel for the Dharma Association of North America meeting in Montreal next Thanksgiving week, conjoint with the American Academy of Religion. I invite anyone interested in presenting a a paper to get in touch with me. The topic is: "Traditional Indian culture theory views contemporary media cultures" The panel will engage classical Indian thinking about culture with examples of contemporary culture in India and elsewhere. Indian reflection on culture may be found in many places, although the specific category of "culture" may not be identified as such. Refining oneself or one's practices (samskrti, samskara) and attaining a higher or better state (sadhana) might, however, be thought of as kinds of culture. Can yoga, tantra, nyaya, dharma literature, rasa esthetics, etc., shed light on what is happening in the contemporary media cultures of India, Europe, the US, etc., and point the way toward what could and should be happening there? If culture is a force within social life that can move persons toward more authentic, truer selfhood, how are we to understand secular media culture, which seems opposed to what we might call the sadhana function of classical cultures? How can culture do its job in the contemporary world? From franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Thu Mar 5 09:44:43 2009 From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE (franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 09 10:44:43 +0100 Subject: announcement: proceedings of symposium PLUS summaries in skt In-Reply-To: <20090304T183613Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227085170.23782.3401100742619757088.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1269 Lines: 36 I would like to draw your attention to the Sanskrit dictionary in http://spokensanskrit.de/ It has entries such as computer, computer mouse, log in/out, coffee, chocolade, etc. Best wishs Eli Franco > I would think that since Sanskrit creates abstractions with great > ease, it would be more reasonable to invent words for these (at > least arguably) abstract entities from Sanskrit roots and vocabulary > rather than to borrow the English. They aren't like Realien like > "coffee." Anyway, modern languages differ radically in the extent > to which they expand vocabulary by borrowing rather than by > translation, invention from native vocabulary, calqueing, or the > like, don't they? > > Allen Thrasher > > > "I wonder, does Dr. Srinivas Varakhedi and his team also have words for > computer, computational, unicode fonts, printer, word strings, parser, > recursive, and regular expressions? Personally, if I would have to do the > job, I would have considered these terms loan-words, as most living > languages do today. Same with submodern items like coffee and train. > > Alexandra van der Geer > Athens" ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Thu Mar 5 21:19:30 2009 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 09 13:19:30 -0800 Subject: MithilAyAM tu daghdhAyAm In-Reply-To: <5065_1236282968_1236282968_20090305T145508Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227085186.23782.10120385165013617796.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 512 Lines: 23 In Prof. Tokunaga's Mahaabhaarata e-text: 0120170181/.anantam.bata.me.vittam.yasya.me.na.asti.kimcana./ 0120170183/.mithilaayaam.pradiiptaayaam.na.me.dahyati.kimcana.// Also, 0121710561/ 0121710563/ with no difference of reading. The metre would not allow you to read dahyate with a heavy syllable at the end of the word. On 09/05/24 11:55 AM, "Allen W Thrasher" wrote: > What is the source and context of the saying, MithilAyAM tu daghdAyAm / na me > dahyate kimcana? > > Allen From baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Thu Mar 5 21:44:54 2009 From: baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 09 13:44:54 -0800 Subject: MithilAyAM tu daghdhAyAm In-Reply-To: <20090305T145508Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227085190.23782.10802145540188571289.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 640 Lines: 27 In addition to the MBh and Uttarajjh?y? references provided by Professors Aklujkar and Tieken, the half?verse in question occurs in Ud?navarga 30.44: susukham bata j?v?mo ye??? no n?sti ki?cana? mithil?y?? dahyam?n?y?? na no dahyati ki?cana? and in Mah?vastu III 453.1?2: mithil?y?? dahyam?n?y?? n?sya dahyati ki?cana caturtha? khu bhadram adhanasya an?g?rasya bhik?u?o I happen to have a scan of the Roth article which I will send to Allen in separate email. I wonder why Mithil? figures in this proverbial expression. All best, Stefan -- Stefan Baums Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington From athr at LOC.GOV Thu Mar 5 18:58:19 2009 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 09 13:58:19 -0500 Subject: announcement: proceedings of symposium PLUS summaries in skt Message-ID: <161227085178.23782.9254130224667761883.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 387 Lines: 6 It's probably not important, but I want to clarify that when I said, "Anyway, modern languages differ radically in the extent to which they expand vocabulary by borrowing rather than by translation, invention from native vocabulary, calqueing, or the like, don't they?," I was referring to modern languages throughout the world, not specifically modern South Asian languages. Allen From athr at LOC.GOV Thu Mar 5 19:55:08 2009 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 09 14:55:08 -0500 Subject: MithilAyAM tu daghdhAyAm Message-ID: <161227085184.23782.4113921747803988540.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 105 Lines: 6 What is the source and context of the saying, MithilAyAM tu daghdAyAm / na me dahyate kimcana? Allen From kiparsky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU Thu Mar 5 23:35:47 2009 From: kiparsky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU (Paul Kiparsky) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 09 15:35:47 -0800 Subject: A pedantic correction (but it's still a good story) In-Reply-To: <20090305T172003Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227085207.23782.10250333181938113141.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 632 Lines: 20 > > There was another one I heard about Roman Jacobson. When he first > came to the U.S., his English was insufficient for lecturing, so in > his first class he said, "Does everyone here know Polish?" One shy > student at the back timidly raised her hand saying she didn't. He > leaned over the podium, spread out his hands, and said, "Vell, TRY." > > Si non e vero, e bien trovato. > It was my father, Valentin Kiparsky, not Roman Jakobson. The occasion was the 1952 Linguistic Institute at Bloomington, Indiana. The language was Russian, not Polish. And the student was male. ...ben cambiato, anyway. Paul From d.plukker at INTER.NL.NET Thu Mar 5 15:42:56 2009 From: d.plukker at INTER.NL.NET (Dick Plukker) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 09 16:42:56 +0100 Subject: announcement: proceedings of symposium PLUS summaries in skt In-Reply-To: <20090305104443.20382ikt1re6bi8b@mail.uni-leipzig.de> Message-ID: <161227085173.23782.16326329512841300200.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1588 Lines: 47 See also /A Comprehensive English-Hindi Dictionary of Governmental & Educational Words & Phrases/, by Prof. Dr. Raghu Vira and Dr. Lokesh Chandra, New Delhi 1976. Its enormous (1572 pages, three columns to a page), heavingly Sanskritized, vocabulary is mostly formed, just as described by Allen Thrasher, on the basis of Sanskrit roots, pre- and suffixes. Dick Plukker Amsterdam franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE schreef: > I would like to draw your attention to the Sanskrit dictionary in > http://spokensanskrit.de/ > It has entries such as computer, computer mouse, log in/out, coffee, > chocolade, etc. > Best wishs > Eli Franco > > >> I would think that since Sanskrit creates abstractions with great >> ease, it would be more reasonable to invent words for these (at least >> arguably) abstract entities from Sanskrit roots and vocabulary rather >> than to borrow the English. They aren't like Realien like >> "coffee." Anyway, modern languages differ radically in the extent to >> which they expand vocabulary by borrowing rather than by translation, >> invention from native vocabulary, calqueing, or the like, don't they? >> >> Allen Thrasher >> >> >> "I wonder, does Dr. Srinivas Varakhedi and his team also have words for >> computer, computational, unicode fonts, printer, word strings, parser, >> recursive, and regular expressions? Personally, if I would have to do >> the >> job, I would have considered these terms loan-words, as most living >> languages do today. Same with submodern items like coffee and train. >> >> Alexandra van der Geer >> Athens" From athr at LOC.GOV Thu Mar 5 22:20:03 2009 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 09 17:20:03 -0500 Subject: Language barriers --- financial barriers Message-ID: <161227085199.23782.14762119199659169495.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1378 Lines: 21 In the hope of slightly relieving the depression that Michael Hahn's points may have engendered, I'll recount an anecdote someone or other told me about Harry Wolfson, the great scholar of Jewish, Christian, and Muslim theology and philosophy. A grad student had a difficult question and was advised to consult Prof. Wolfson. He went to his office in the top of Widener Library, and explained his problem. Wolfson said, "I have just the thing you need." He climbed a ladder to the highest shelf, reached to the back, drew out a pamphlet, and came back down blowing away the dust. He handed it to the student saying, "You do read Lithuanian, don't you?" There was another one I heard about Roman Jacobson. When he first came to the U.S., his English was insufficient for lecturing, so in his first class he said, "Does everyone here know Polish?" One shy student at the back timidly raised her hand saying she didn't. He leaned over the podium, spread out his hands, and said, "Vell, TRY." Si non e vero, e bien trovato. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Fri Mar 6 01:35:52 2009 From: baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 09 17:35:52 -0800 Subject: MithilAyAM tu daghdhAyAm In-Reply-To: <20090305T180306Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227085213.23782.6090656882743681662.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 423 Lines: 21 Dear Allen, > Mithila was just taken as the greatest and richest city that may well be the case. There is also a J?taka version of the Mah?vastu verse (Ja V 252.28?29) which just uses ?city? without giving it a name: pa?cama? bhadram adhanassa an?g?rassa bhikkhuno nagaramhi ?ayham?namhi n?ssa ki? ci a?ayhatha Best regards, Stefan -- Stefan Baums Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington From athr at LOC.GOV Thu Mar 5 23:03:06 2009 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 09 18:03:06 -0500 Subject: MithilAyAM tu daghdhAyAm Message-ID: <161227085201.23782.13775497162361105266.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 624 Lines: 20 Many thanks to Ashok, Herman, and Stefan for their illuminating responses. I had always thought that there was an ancient story of some specific king of Mithila walking away from his burning city, but apparently not, Mithila was just taken as the greatest and richest city. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Fri Mar 6 02:15:09 2009 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 09 18:15:09 -0800 Subject: Language barriers --- financial barriers In-Reply-To: <20090305225618.E241.HAHN.M@t-online.de> Message-ID: <161227085218.23782.4067641261706122966.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 835 Lines: 15 I would like to suggest, as gently as possible, that it is not a good idea to speak of an "indisputable hierarchy of languages" for Indologists, all of which happen to be Western. I can testify that there is an enormous scholarly literature in Tamil that is important for Indological studies -- and that it is in no way inferior in quality or learning to what is in German or English. The same is true of Malayalam, Kannada and Telugu -- and I suspect of the major North Indian languages. If a student came to me and asked whether she should learn French, German, Tamil or Telugu, I would answer Tamil or Telugu without a second thought. The fact that western scholars are ignorant of what is written in these languages does not mean they are less important or illuminating than what we write. George Hart From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Fri Mar 6 02:25:54 2009 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 09 18:25:54 -0800 Subject: MithilAyAM tu daghdhAyAm In-Reply-To: <334_1236294249_1236294249_20090305T180306Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227085220.23782.14390867391323265753.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 615 Lines: 15 The association of the remark with Janaka and Mithilaa is rather widespread. Mithilaa is known primarily as an ideal city, not as the richest city (and Janaka as a philosopher king). The reference to burning is hypothetical ('even if Mithilaa is ablaze, even if Mithilaa were to burn ...'). Note the present tense in the reading dahyati. On 09/05/24 3:03 PM, "Allen W Thrasher" wrote: > I had always thought that there was an ancient story of some specific king of > Mithila walking away from his burning city, but apparently not, Mithila was > just taken as the greatest and richest city. From athr at LOC.GOV Thu Mar 5 23:42:46 2009 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 09 18:42:46 -0500 Subject: A pedantic correction (but it's still a good story) Message-ID: <161227085210.23782.15703694614038373940.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 907 Lines: 26 Thanks, Paul. I'm virtually certain I heard it as Polish, which as I was explaining to Bob Goldman, made the story even better. Maybe it got transformed before it got to me, rather than by me. Allen >>> Paul Kiparsky 3/5/2009 6:35 PM >>> > > There was another one I heard about Roman Jacobson. When he first > came to the U.S., his English was insufficient for lecturing, so in > his first class he said, "Does everyone here know Polish?" One shy > student at the back timidly raised her hand saying she didn't. He > leaned over the podium, spread out his hands, and said, "Vell, TRY." > > Si non e vero, e bien trovato. > It was my father, Valentin Kiparsky, not Roman Jakobson. The occasion was the 1952 Linguistic Institute at Bloomington, Indiana. The language was Russian, not Polish. And the student was male. ...ben cambiato, anyway. Paul From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Fri Mar 6 03:03:02 2009 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 09 19:03:02 -0800 Subject: MithilAyAM tu daghdhAyAm In-Reply-To: <334_1236294249_1236294249_20090305T180306Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227085224.23782.6104884107779385681.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 737 Lines: 21 The last sentence should read "Note the present tense in the first half of the verse and in the reading dahyati." a.a. The association of the remark with Janaka and Mithilaa is rather widespread. Mithilaa is known primarily as an ideal city, not as the richest city (and Janaka as a philosopher king). The reference to burning is hypothetical ('even if Mithilaa is ablaze, even if Mithilaa were to burn ...'). Note the present tense in the reading dahyati. On 09/05/24 3:03 PM, "Allen W Thrasher" wrote: > I had always thought that there was an ancient story of some specific king of > Mithila walking away from his burning city, but apparently not, Mithila was > just taken as the greatest and richest city. From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Fri Mar 6 05:00:33 2009 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 09 21:00:33 -0800 Subject: Language barriers --- financial barriers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085227.23782.7882516365977255124.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1131 Lines: 23 I absolutely agree with what George H. has stated here about the importance of the study of Indian languages, especially for obtaining a reasonable understanding of the complex Indian culture. Regards, V.S. Rajam On Mar 5, 2009, at 6:15 PM, George Hart wrote: > I would like to suggest, as gently as possible, that it is not a > good idea to speak of an "indisputable hierarchy of languages" for > Indologists, all of which happen to be Western. I can testify that > there is an enormous scholarly literature in Tamil that is > important for Indological studies -- and that it is in no way > inferior in quality or learning to what is in German or English. > The same is true of Malayalam, Kannada and Telugu -- and I suspect > of the major North Indian languages. If a student came to me and > asked whether she should learn French, German, Tamil or Telugu, I > would answer Tamil or Telugu without a second thought. The fact > that western scholars are ignorant of what is written in these > languages does not mean they are less important or illuminating > than what we write. George Hart From H.J.H.Tieken at HUM.LEIDENUNIV.NL Thu Mar 5 21:28:28 2009 From: H.J.H.Tieken at HUM.LEIDENUNIV.NL (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 09 22:28:28 +0100 Subject: MithilAyAM tu daghdhAyAm Message-ID: <161227085188.23782.642500810219732297.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 673 Lines: 25 The line is found in Uttarajjhaya 9.14/242, in Prakrit (but withour diacritics): mihilae dajjhamanie na me dajjhai kimcana. Here (at home) I do not have access to Gustav Roth's "Dhammapada verses in Uttarajjhaya". Sambodhi 5, 2-3 (1976), pp. 166-9, who refers to the Mahabharata and Dhammapada parallels. If you wish I can mail you the references tomorrow Kind regards Herman Tieken ________________________________ From: Indology on behalf of Allen W Thrasher Sent: Thu 3/5/2009 8:55 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: MithilAyAM tu daghdhAyAm What is the source and context of the saying, MithilAyAM tu daghdAyAm / na me dahyate kimcana? Allen From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Fri Mar 6 06:45:08 2009 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 09 22:45:08 -0800 Subject: A pedantic correction (but it's still a good story) In-Reply-To: <10347_1236317799_1236317799_c4c5a5430903052136h37605106h57d990728732e9c7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227085234.23782.18298579094065020017.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 450 Lines: 12 I took two courses with Roman Jacobson. The remark I heard about him in both the classes was: "He speaks English in eighteen different languages." The range of knowledge behind the thick Russian accent and the French culture of speaking ("Permit me to say/add/mention that ..."), however, was amazing. He would easily move from linguistics to poetics and would mention even Ananda-vardhana with a good grasp of the dhvani theory. Ashok Aklujkar From hahn.m at T-ONLINE.DE Thu Mar 5 21:59:46 2009 From: hahn.m at T-ONLINE.DE (Michael Hahn) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 09 22:59:46 +0100 Subject: Language barriers --- financial barriers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085193.23782.6026941037528153791.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6648 Lines: 115 The recent contributions of Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi and Walter Slaje to the list touch a fundamental problem that affects the work of many scholars working in various of Indian Studies ("South Asian Studies", to be politically correct) and which should be mentioned here, if only brief: The factual existence of a two class system that is caused by two barriers which are indeed hard to overcome --- the financial barrier and the language barrier. The financial barrier is mainly caused by the enormous cost of publishing books on all types of "oriental" topics in the so-called developed countries. The result are prohibitive prices that put these publications out of the reach of most scholars. There are only a few places in the world --- in the North America, some European countries and Japan --- where researchers enjoy practically unimpeded access to the fruits of their colleagues' works, also thanks to a functioning interlibrary loan system. The second factor, the cost of an adequate technical equipment, is fortunately becoming less decisive because of the rapidly decreasing prices for computer hard and software and internet charges. The problem of the high prices of books and journals is at least partially overcome by the laudable enterprises of Indian and other Asian publishers who are on a large scale reprinting older important works and in an increasing number also recent publications, with the permission of the original publishers. And the costs of exchange of texts, documents and papers via the internet (occasionally in a legally grey or even dark zone) have also drastically dropped I have experienced both situations: to work in institutes with fairly well (or even excellently) equipped libraries during two of my assignments at German universities, as visiting scholar in the USA, England, or Japan, and to have to work with a small library and an entirely inadequate budget during my assignment at small university in Germany where I felt to be not much better of than my colleagues in India. The situation was partly made up through the exchange of publications with and the possibility of buying privately at least some of the books that the institute could not afford. The second barrier is the language barrier that was alluded to or mentioned by my colleagues Pandurangi and Slaje. I understand what Prof. Pandurangi has written, however, I would like to add something to his statements. It is true that indological publications are written in an ever increasing number of languages all of which cannot be mastered by a single individual. Scholars like the late Prof. J. W. de Jong who read almost all the relevant languages are a rare exception. And I do not believe that I (or even my younger colleagues) will live long enough to see reliable translations of scholarly papers done by computers. Nevertheless, there is an indisputable hierarchy of languages that are essential for indological studies as they were conceived and developed in the Western countries during the last two centuries. Whether one likes it or not: There are three European languages in which so many valuable and fundamental works for various fields of Indian studies were written (and are being written) that he or she who wishes to participate in this kind of research cannot afford not to acquire at least a certain reading knowledge of them: English, German and French. I readily admit that this means an additional burden for everyone who does not have one of these languages as his or her mother tongue. Nevertheless until recently it was recommended to students of indology at the University of Kyoto to acquire a basic command of these three languages. Sometimes it might suffice to have a colleague who can assist one in consulting a publication in one of these languages. One has also to bear in mind that these three languages were used by a many students from abroad who wrote their theses in an English, French, or German speaking country. Quite often they later kept these languages as their medium of publication. I would like to illustrate the reason why "code switching" is not so easy a task in many fields of humanities by the case of a Japanese student who came to me for one year with the sole aim of discussing with me a limited portion of his Ph. D. thesis, the edition and translation of a rather difficult Tibetan philosophical commentary. After we had translated a major portion of the work into German, after long discussions about the proper German equivalents of difficult terms, he desperately said: "I will never be able to translate this again into Japanese [without spending too much time and energy --- this is to be understood]." And he decided to complete his thesis in German and in Germany. It goes without saying that for specific fields of research publications in languages like Italian, Russian, Japanese --- more recently also Hindi and Chinese --- can also be absolutely indispensable and that one has to find a way how to consult them. One can certainly not assume the attitude: "I don't read Italian/Russian/Chinese etc., therefore I don't care whether the problem I am studying now has already been dealt with satisfactorily by an Italian/Russian/Chinese etc. colleague." Deplorably, sometimes it does not help much even if foreign scholars take the trouble of writing in English, because of the financial barrier. A great portion of Prof. von Hinueber's publications --- which were the starting point of the whole discussion --- is already available in English (cf., e.g., his Selected Papers, London 1994). Nevertheless many colleagues in India don't even know his name. That is what he himself apprehended when he once told me that it doesn't seem to matter whether he writes in German or English because he will not find many more readers for his English publications. Even if it might be difficult for many colleagues in India and elsewhere to get hold of many important books and papers, it has, thanks to the internet, nowadays become a very easy task to inform oneself about a particular scholar, his (or her) fields of research and his (or her) publications. Usually one can find these data on the scholar's home page. And for a very rough translation of titles of books and papers even the internet tools might prove sufficient. I suspect the reasons outlined above might have been responsible --- at least partly --- for the somewhat satiric tone of Prof. Slaje's response, nothing else. --- Prof. Dr. Michael Hahn Ritterstr. 14 D-35287 Amoeneburg Tel. +49-6422-938963 Fax: +49-6422-938967 E-mail: hahn.m at t-online.de URL: staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~hahnm From hahn.m at T-ONLINE.DE Thu Mar 5 22:05:13 2009 From: hahn.m at T-ONLINE.DE (Michael Hahn) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 09 23:05:13 +0100 Subject: Publication announcement In-Reply-To: <20090304111748.15302kjconnylt8s@mail.uni-leipzig.de> Message-ID: <161227085196.23782.8773249436870864344.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2204 Lines: 80 Bauddhasahityastabakavali: Essays and Studies on Buddhist Sanskrit Literature Dedicated to Claus Vogel by Colleagues, Students, and Friends. Edited by Dragomir Dimitrov, Michael Hahn, and Roland Steiner. Marburg 2008, xxvi, 351 pp., hardcover (Indica et Tibetica, Band 36), ISBN: 978-3-923776-36-8, Price: EUR 48,00 This volume contains a bibliography of Professor Claus Vogel?s publications and 15 papers (10 in German, 5 in English), all but one dealing with Buddhist topics (critical editions, translations, text- critical, historical, and literary studies). Table of Contents: Preface ix Peter WYZLIC Publications of Claus Vogel xi Heinz BECHERT Kavya-Literatur in der fr?hen und mittelalterlichen Tradition der Singhalesen in Sri Lanka 1 Siglinde DIETZ Mat?ce?as *Caturviparyasajihasakatha 17 Dragomir DIMITROV Some Remarks on the Rupyavatyavadana of the Divyavadana(mala) 45 Helmut EIMER ?berlegungen zur ?berlieferungsgeschichte des tibetischen Buddhacarita 65 Karl-Heinz GOLZIO Zur Datierung des Ku?a?a-K?nigs Kani?ka I. 79 Michael HAHN The Sanskrit Text of J?anasrimitra?s V?ttamalastuti 93 J?rgen HANNEDER Candradasa?s Tarastuti 171 Jens-Uwe HARTMANN Vasumitras Darsanapa?casatstava: Ein Buddha-Hymnus aus Ostturkistan 187 Konrad KLAUS Metrische und textkritische Untersuchungen zur Ra??rapalaparip?ccha: Die alten Arya-Strophen 199 Philipp A. MAAS: A Phylogenetic Approach to the Transmission of the Tibetan Kanjur ?the Ak?ayamatinirdesa Revisited 229 Klaus-Dieter MATHES: The Sri Sabarapadastotraratna of Vanaratna 245 Mamiko und Yukihiro OKADA: Zum Verh?ltnis des Lalitavistara zur Ratnaku?a-Sammlung: Die Sage von Syama und Ruci (Lalitavistara XIII.[32]) 269 Wilhelm RAU: Der Magnet im Alten Indien: Sanskrit Parallelen zu Plinius: Naturalis Historia 34.42 285 Roland STEINER: Glossar (Sanskrit-Deutsch-Tibetisch) zum ersten Gesang von Asvagho?as Buddhacarita 291 Klaus WILLE: Neue Fragmente des Candrasutra 339 www.iet-verlag.de --- Prof. Dr. Michael Hahn Ritterstr. 14 D-35287 Amoeneburg Tel. +49-6422-938963 Fax: +49-6422-938967 E-mail: hahn.m at t-online.de URL: staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~hahnm From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Thu Mar 5 18:05:20 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 09 23:35:20 +0530 Subject: announcement: proceedings of symposium PLUS summaries in skt Message-ID: <161227085176.23782.9155733803061153101.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4276 Lines: 60 06 02 09 The accusation that an NIA language?depended heavily on Sanskrit perhaps first came from Grierson who noted that?in Bengali and called that 'slavish'. The idea caught up with some non-Bengali linguists like Taraporewala but none among Bengali authors or scholars of any consequence including Tagore and so many writers in Bangladesh cared for the accusation. Most of them do not know anything of that 'slavish' dependence. Bengali has moved way from the nineteenth century stiffness. But Grierson or Taraporewala had nothing to do with that. Development in the districts and improved communication have allowed the influence of the dialects to be felt with native words replacing Sanskrit words imperceptibly. But quite a few post-Tagore poets (eg.Sudhindranath Datta, Bishnu De in calcutta and a number of them in Bangladesh) have been in search of proper words much more from Sanskrit than from any other language for expressing various ideas and ideologies .? Hindi caught up with Bengali a bit late in the day. So the attention on its dependence on Sanskrit is younger than that on Bengali. As to why the concern for over-dependence on Sanskrit is of no concern to the creative writers in these languages and is of non-native origin will not be far to seek. It is because the critics do not speak or write the languages concerned. I request for the indulgence of my colleagues in giving here a gist of my conversation with late Professor F.B.J. Kuiper. That may clarify my point. Everybody knows that Kuiper had a forceful personality and was liberal in his outlook. I had just complained against the way Grierson attacked the influence of Sanskrit on Bengali. Kuiper, who had at first thought that I had been speaking from the point of view of Grierson, asked me if the process had been still alive. I asked him with all humility -- what most of the European languages did for coining terms for zoological species and other new additions in physical and social sciences? I just averred that the dependence was not more than that of French or English on Greco-Roman at least till the fifties of the twentieth century. My words only evoked a heavenly smile from the savant. That was usual and typically Kuiperish. Why not even a word will ever be uttered anywhere in the world about that dependence? DB --- On Thu, 5/3/09, Dick Plukker wrote: From: Dick Plukker Subject: Re: announcement: proceedings of symposium PLUS summaries in skt To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Thursday, 5 March, 2009, 9:12 PM See also /A Comprehensive English-Hindi Dictionary of Governmental & Educational Words & Phrases/, by Prof. Dr. Raghu Vira and Dr. Lokesh Chandra, New Delhi 1976. Its enormous (1572 pages, three columns to a page), heavingly Sanskritized, vocabulary is mostly formed, just as described by Allen Thrasher, on the basis of Sanskrit roots, pre- and suffixes. Dick Plukker Amsterdam franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE schreef: > I would like to draw your attention to the Sanskrit dictionary in > http://spokensanskrit.de/ > It has entries such as computer, computer mouse, log in/out, coffee, chocolade, etc. > Best wishs > Eli Franco > > >> I would think that since Sanskrit creates abstractions with great ease, it would be more reasonable to invent words for these (at least arguably) abstract entities from Sanskrit roots and vocabulary rather than to borrow the English.???They aren't like Realien like "coffee."? Anyway, modern languages differ radically in the extent to which they expand vocabulary by borrowing rather than by translation, invention from native vocabulary, calqueing, or the like, don't they? >> >> Allen Thrasher >> >> >> "I wonder, does Dr. Srinivas Varakhedi and his team also have words for >> computer, computational, unicode fonts, printer, word strings, parser, >> recursive, and regular expressions? Personally, if I would have to do the >> job, I would have considered these terms loan-words, as most living >> languages do today. Same with submodern items like coffee and train. >> >> Alexandra van der Geer >> Athens" Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now, on http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html/ From hahn.m at T-ONLINE.DE Thu Mar 5 23:22:29 2009 From: hahn.m at T-ONLINE.DE (Michael Hahn) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 09 00:22:29 +0100 Subject: MithilAyAM tu daghdhAyAm In-Reply-To: <20090305T180306Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227085204.23782.699806090425090830.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 746 Lines: 22 One would hope that Prajnavarman in his voluminous Udanavargavivarana (ed. M. Balk, Bonn 1984) would relate a somewhat interesting story but all he has to say is: "In order to illustrate that there is a special happiness after one has abandoned even the minutest [possession] without any remainder [the Buddha] spoke [the verse containing the name] Mithila. The ruler of Mithila, a royal seer, once dwelt in a state that was free from longing caused by desire. When he saw that Mithila was consumed by a big fire he spoke the stanza that had been uttered by the Buddha." --- Prof. Dr. Michael Hahn Ritterstr. 14 D-35287 Amoeneburg Tel. +49-6422-938963 Fax: +49-6422-938967 E-mail: hahn.m at t-online.de URL: staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~hahnm From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Fri Mar 6 05:36:26 2009 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 09 06:36:26 +0100 Subject: A pedantic correction (but it's still a good story) In-Reply-To: <20090305T184246Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227085229.23782.11861031039086521407.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1275 Lines: 44 I heard the story years ago from Cal Watkins, Jacobson's student, as concerning him and Russian. So there seem to be various 'recensions' of the story circulating... On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 12:42 AM, Allen W Thrasher wrote: > Thanks, Paul. I'm virtually certain I heard it as Polish, which as I was > explaining to Bob Goldman, made the story even better. Maybe it got > transformed before it got to me, rather than by me. > > Allen > > >>> Paul Kiparsky 3/5/2009 6:35 PM >>> > > > > > There was another one I heard about Roman Jacobson. When he first > > came to the U.S., his English was insufficient for lecturing, so in > > his first class he said, "Does everyone here know Polish?" One shy > > student at the back timidly raised her hand saying she didn't. He > > leaned over the podium, spread out his hands, and said, "Vell, TRY." > > > > Si non e vero, e bien trovato. > > > > It was my father, Valentin Kiparsky, not Roman Jakobson. The > occasion was the 1952 Linguistic Institute at Bloomington, Indiana. > The language was Russian, not Polish. And the student was male. > > ...ben cambiato, anyway. > > Paul > -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From James_Fitzgerald at BROWN.EDU Fri Mar 6 11:42:06 2009 From: James_Fitzgerald at BROWN.EDU (Fitzgerald, James) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 09 06:42:06 -0500 Subject: MithilAyAM tu daghdhAyAm In-Reply-To: <20090305214454.GC6320@ubuntu> Message-ID: <161227085253.23782.15559746021647736688.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1807 Lines: 39 In addition to the two MBh references already noted, a variant with susukhaM bata jIvAmi (similar Stefan's UdAnavarga citation) for anantaM bata me vittam occurs at 12.268.4. I discuss the way the figure of Janaka is cast and used in a run of texts occurring at the end of the MokSadharmaparvan in the introduction to my translation of the SulabhAJanakasaMvAda in the Journal of Indian Philosophy 30.6 (December, 2002): 641-77. Janaka is frequently portrayed here as the paradigmatic karmayogin king, "in the world, but not of the world," and this extravagant verse is put in his mouth as an emblem of his detachment. Sulabha is depicted as giving the lie to his claims. James L. Fitzgerald Dept. of Classics Brown University James_Fitzgerald at Brown.edu (I posted the above message yesterday afternoon, but it did not go through for technical reasons. Since I don't believe anyone has yet pointed out the third MBh reference, I repost it now. Jim) -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Stefan Baums Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 4:45 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: MithilAyAM tu daghdhAyAm In addition to the MBh and Uttarajjh?y? references provided by Professors Aklujkar and Tieken, the half?verse in question occurs in Ud?navarga 30.44: susukham bata j?v?mo ye??? no n?sti ki?cana? mithil?y?? dahyam?n?y?? na no dahyati ki?cana? and in Mah?vastu III 453.1?2: mithil?y?? dahyam?n?y?? n?sya dahyati ki?cana caturtha? khu bhadram adhanasya an?g?rasya bhik?u?o I happen to have a scan of the Roth article which I will send to Allen in separate email. I wonder why Mithil? figures in this proverbial expression. All best, Stefan -- Stefan Baums Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington From birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT Fri Mar 6 06:36:29 2009 From: birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Birgit Kellner) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 09 07:36:29 +0100 Subject: Language barriers --- financial barriers In-Reply-To: <20090305225618.E241.HAHN.M@t-online.de> Message-ID: <161227085232.23782.9922834558675920468.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4725 Lines: 85 Concerning the financial barrier, it is perhaps worthwhile to take notice of a growing movement towards making access to scholarly publications open (hence: "open access"), rapidly spreading in the natural sciences and also developing into a strategy that many research funding bodies in the West (including Japan) adopt in general. This movement arose mainly in response to changes in the journal publication market: large commercial publishing houses charge growing subscription rates to libraries, which makes it increasingly difficult for researchers to access literature. Open access means ideally that scholarly publications are free of charge and available to everyone - usually in digital format, mostly in PDF. Research funding organizations (e.g. in Austria, I believe also in Germany) have also turned to encouraging (or even requiring) open access publication for the results of the projects they support. Regardless of some problems that this creates (changes in financing models, mostly), it also creates, I think, great opportunities when it comes to making research accessible to colleagues in countries with an underdeveloped library infrastructure. It's worth thinking about in connection with the financial barriers that Michael Hahn so eloquently describes. What I am wondering specifically in connection with Indological studies: whence the "enormous cost of publishing books an all types of 'oriental' topics in the so-called developed countries", as Michael Hahn puts it? Why, for instance, does the set of Oskar von Hin?ber's "Kleine Schriften" that was recently announced cost 178 Euros? Do the publishers take such great care with editing, layout and design as to justify such a price? (The technology required to typeset books in Asian languages can no longer justify such prices.) And if not: Why do authors decide to publish with publishers when they know exorbitant prices will be charged for their books? Is it because the publication with a major established publisher is believed to make more impact than a cheaper publication with one that is lesser known? Is it the publisher's reputation that people hope will also reflect on the reputation of their books? Is it the expected professionality of distribution, is it a hope for fame? Is it just habit, a lack of knowledge that other possibilities might exist? Curiously yours, Birgit Kellner Michael Hahn wrote: > The recent contributions of Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi and Walter > Slaje to the list touch a fundamental problem that affects the work of > many scholars working in various of Indian Studies ("South Asian > Studies", to be politically correct) and which should be mentioned here, > if only brief: The factual existence of a two class system that is > caused by two barriers which are indeed hard to overcome --- the > financial barrier and the language barrier. The financial barrier is > mainly caused by the enormous cost of publishing books on all types of > "oriental" topics in the so-called developed countries. The result are > prohibitive prices that put these publications out of the reach of most > scholars. There are only a few places in the world --- in the North > America, some European countries and Japan --- where researchers enjoy > practically unimpeded access to the fruits of their colleagues' works, > also thanks to a functioning interlibrary loan system. The second > factor, the cost of an adequate technical equipment, is fortunately > becoming less decisive because of the rapidly decreasing prices for > computer hard and software and internet charges. The problem of the > high prices of books and journals is at least partially overcome by the > laudable enterprises of Indian and other Asian publishers who are on a > large scale reprinting older important works and in an increasing > number also recent publications, with the permission of the original > publishers. And the costs of exchange of texts, documents and papers > via the internet (occasionally in a legally grey or even dark zone) > have also drastically dropped > > I have experienced both situations: to work in institutes with fairly > well (or even excellently) equipped libraries during two of my > assignments at German universities, as visiting scholar in the USA, > England, or Japan, and to have to work with a small library and an > entirely inadequate budget during my assignment at small university in > Germany where I felt to be not much better of than my colleagues in > India. The situation was partly made up through the exchange of > publications with and the possibility of buying privately at least some > of the books that the institute could not afford. > > > From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Fri Mar 6 07:01:29 2009 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 09 08:01:29 +0100 Subject: Language barriers --- financial barriers In-Reply-To: <49B0C46D.8050208@univie.ac.at> Message-ID: <161227085237.23782.15417867180218018278.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3151 Lines: 68 A small note on Birgit's thoughtful contribution: On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 7:36 AM, Birgit Kellner wrote: > ... > > What I am wondering specifically in connection with Indological studies: > whence the "enormous cost of publishing books an all types of 'oriental' > topics in the so-called developed countries", as Michael Hahn puts it? Why, > for instance, does the set of Oskar von Hin?ber's "Kleine Schriften" that > was recently announced cost 178 Euros? Do the publishers take such great > care with editing, layout and design as to justify such a price? (The > technology required to typeset books in Asian languages can no longer > justify such prices.) And if not: Why do authors decide to publish with > publishers when they know exorbitant prices will be charged for their books? > Is it because the publication with a major established publisher is believed > to make more impact than a cheaper publication with one that is lesser > known? Is it the publisher's reputation that people hope will also reflect > on the reputation of their books? Is it the expected professionality of > distribution, is it a hope for fame? Is it just habit, a lack of knowledge > that other possibilities might exist? > What Birgit delicately does not mention (apophatic discourse?) is that of course with the exception of the introduction and Table of Contents, and sometimes index, in these Glasenapp volumes, the entire thing is no more than a photoreprint of already published materials (sometimes, in the case anyway of Weller's work, for example, in barely legible copies). In Japan, we find the mere binding of computer printouts. The recent volume on the, if I recall correctly, Samyuktagama, from Sankibo costs 8000 yen, about 70 Euros or so, for a paperback volume that could have been distributed by the author in *exactly the same form* (in pdf, allowing readers to print and bind it themselves) entirely freely. Why? (All the more so for fancy LaTex stuff...) It may be that we need to work at changing the culture of value, that we need to break the link between big-name publishers and scholarly value. Heaven knows, each and every one of us could come up with an extensive list of just bad books published by 'reputable' houses... I would like to emphasize that, like many of us, I *love* books, as physical objects among other things, and I am *not* arguing for doing away with them! But when you've got publishers publishing books with huge subventions from funding bodies, and still charging outrageous prices, (and I confess I am on the board of one such series), this is just, as we say to our kids, "not OK." Maybe, as again Birgit says, the/a way to start is with funding bodies. Already they stipulate from time to time exactly how much 'skim' universities may take from grants. Maybe we should ask them to require free or 'reasonably priced' publication of all works for which they pay in the first place? (Then, how to define 'reasonable'?) sorry--the small note became not quite so small... jonathan J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Fri Mar 6 08:03:00 2009 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 09 08:03:00 +0000 Subject: MithilAyAM tu daghdhAyAm Message-ID: <161227085239.23782.13230677715797143477.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1452 Lines: 32 In the MBh context, this passage refers to the mentally detached attitude of a "(jiivan-)mukta" of the Grhastha type, taking King Janaka as a model. Liberated (mukta) from involvement and internally unaffected by the destruction of even his capital, he nonetheless refuses to renounce the world, remains active, keeping to his duties with a non-intentional mind. For details, see Walter Slaje: Towards a history of the jivanmukti concept: The Mok?adharma in the Mahabharata In: Haranandalahari. Volume in Honour of Professor Minoru Hara on his Seventieth Birthday, ed. by Ryutaro Tsuchida and Albrecht Wezler. Reinbek 2000, pp. 325-348. WS ---------------------------------------- Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-Loens-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) Tel/Fax: +49-(0)3643 501391 ----------------------------------------- Seminar f?r Indologie Institut f?r Altertumswissenschaften Martin-Luther-Universit?t Halle-Wittenberg Emil-Abderhalden-Str. 9 D-06108 Halle (Germany) Tel: +49-(0)345-55-23650 Fax: +49-(0)345-55-27139 walter.slaje at indologie.uni-halle.de www.indologie.uni-halle.de ----------------------------------------- Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor me studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Fri Mar 6 02:54:37 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 09 08:24:37 +0530 Subject: announcement: proceedings of symposium PLUS summaries in skt Message-ID: <161227085222.23782.1650374076653756585.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1027 Lines: 25 ? 06?02 0 As I see it Dr.Thrasher's idea?is?correct. It is the Grierson like surprise and obliviousnress about the situtaion in Europe ie?Greco-Latin :: West European languages (exclude German)??that puzzle me. In any case mine was not an accusation but just a call attention note. Greetings for all! DB --- On Fri, 6/3/09, Allen W Thrasher wrote: From: Allen W Thrasher Subject: Re: announcement: proceedings of symposium PLUS summaries in skt To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Friday, 6 March, 2009, 12:28 AM It's probably not important, but I want to clarify that when I said, "Anyway, modern languages differ radically in the extent to which they expand vocabulary by borrowing rather than by translation, invention from native vocabulary, calqueing, or the like, don't they?,"? I was referring to modern languages throughout the world, not specifically modern South Asian languages. Allen Check out the all-new Messenger 9.0! Go to http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/ From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Fri Mar 6 08:13:46 2009 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 09 09:13:46 +0100 Subject: Language barriers --- financial barriers In-Reply-To: <49B0C46D.8050208@univie.ac.at> Message-ID: <161227085241.23782.18345310529293413763.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3387 Lines: 65 > Why > for instance, does the set of Oskar von Hin?ber's "Kleine Schriften" that was > recently announced cost 178 Euros? Do the publishers take such great care > with editing, layout and design as to justify such a price? (The technology > required to typeset books in Asian languages can no longer justify such > prices.) And if not: Why do authors decide to publish with publishers when > they know exorbitant prices will be charged for their books? Is it because > the publication with a major established publisher is believed to make more > impact than a cheaper publication with one that is lesser known? Is it the > publisher's reputation that people hope will also reflect on the reputation > of their books? Is it the expected professionality of distribution, is it a > hope for fame? Is it just habit, a lack of knowledge that other possibilities > might exist? I have it from senior figures in the publishing business that the cost of typesetting and production is a small part of a publisher's costs with respect to the overall budget of publishing a book. Marketing, storage, distribution, and advertising form the major expenses. Hence, on-demand printing is being explored as a way of reducing warehousing costs, for example. Publication with a major established publisher certainly does make a difference to reception and judgement. While we all prefer the idea of a pure-knowledge approach, that we will read and value something important and well-written wherever it was published (or in whatever language), the indisputable fact remains that a high-profile press such as Princeton, Chicago, Berkeley, Cambridge or OUP will still carry weight. The production values are high, and people assume there has been a diligent selection and editing process preceding publication. This is especially true for people who are not themselves in the research field, but often have to make judgements that affect jobs, promotion, etc. These high-cost publishers have Brand Presence in the market, and that is where the money goes, at least partly. Brand awareness is an extremely serious matter in the world of business, and it costs to create it and to maintain it. And publishing companies have to provide profits that satisfy their shareholders. As Birgit says, we are living through a huge change, and Open Access journal publishing is going to affect us all directly. It will take some years for all this to settle down into a new model of scholarly production. Bear in mind that although OA is great for the reader, it means the author bears the cost of publication. To have an OA article in a Springer journal costs ?2000 at the moment. To have an OA article in the Lancet is ?400 per page. PER PAGE! These prices are typical of the big houses, Springer, Elsevier, etc. But not all journals are this expensive, and it does seem possible to run an OA journal publishing business on fees of about $400-$500 per article. Nevertheless, what about academic authors who do not have institutional budgets behind them to support their publishing? For scholars in developing economies, OA provides better read-access, but raises new economic barriers to getting work published. There are some business models that seek to solve this issue, but they have not been implemented by any publisher I know. Best, Dominik From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Fri Mar 6 08:19:17 2009 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 09 09:19:17 +0100 Subject: Publication announcement : on the dating of Kani.ska In-Reply-To: <20090305230354.E243.HAHN.M@t-online.de> Message-ID: <161227085244.23782.8362779758375590536.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3176 Lines: 111 >Looking at the table of contents of >Bauddhasahityastabakavali, and the article of >Karl-Heinz GOLZIO "Zur Datierung des Ku.sa.na-K?nigs Kani.ska", it reminds me that I came across a recent reference on the same subject, which is a detailed study from the numismatic point of view, in a periodical (famous for being the oldest literary one in Europe, founded in 1665 AD and now published by the French Acad?mie des Inscriptions et Belles-Lettres) which could have escape the attention of the Indologists: BOPEARACHCHI Osmund, "Les premiers souverains kouchans : chronologie et iconographie mon?taire", in Journal des Savants, Janvier-Juin 2008, pp. ?? (on the author, who had published in 1991 : Monnaies gr?co-bactriennes et indo-grecques, catalogue raisonn?, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmund_Bopearachchi Best wishes, Christophe Vielle >Bauddhasahityastabakavali: Essays and Studies on Buddhist Sanskrit >Literature Dedicated to Claus Vogel by Colleagues, Students, and >Friends. Edited by Dragomir Dimitrov, Michael Hahn, and Roland >Steiner. Marburg 2008, xxvi, 351 pp., hardcover (Indica et Tibetica, >Band 36), ISBN: 978-3-923776-36-8, Price: EUR 48,00 > >This volume contains a bibliography of Professor Claus Vogel?s >publications and 15 papers (10 in German, 5 in English), all but one >dealing with Buddhist topics (critical editions, translations, text- >critical, historical, and literary studies). > >Table of Contents: > >Preface ix > >Peter WYZLIC >Publications of Claus Vogel xi > >Heinz BECHERT >Kavya-Literatur in der fr?hen und mittelalterlichen Tradition der >Singhalesen in Sri Lanka 1 > >Siglinde DIETZ >Mat?ce?as *Caturviparyasajihasakatha 17 > >Dragomir DIMITROV >Some Remarks on the Rupyavatyavadana of the Divyavadana(mala) 45 > >Helmut EIMER >?berlegungen zur ?berlieferungsgeschichte des tibetischen >Buddhacarita 65 > >Karl-Heinz GOLZIO >Zur Datierung des Ku?a?a-K?nigs Kani?ka I. 79 > >Michael HAHN >The Sanskrit Text of J?anasrimitra?s V?ttamalastuti 93 > >J?rgen HANNEDER >Candradasa?s Tarastuti 171 > >Jens-Uwe HARTMANN >Vasumitras Darsanapa?casatstava: Ein Buddha-Hymnus aus >Ostturkistan 187 > >Konrad KLAUS >Metrische und textkritische Untersuchungen zur Ra??rapalaparip?ccha: >Die alten Arya-Strophen 199 > >Philipp A. MAAS: A Phylogenetic Approach to the Transmission of the >Tibetan Kanjur ?the Ak?ayamatinirdesa Revisited 229 > >Klaus-Dieter MATHES: The Sri Sabarapadastotraratna of Vanaratna >245 > >Mamiko und Yukihiro OKADA: Zum Verh?ltnis des Lalitavistara zur >Ratnaku?a-Sammlung: Die Sage von Syama und Ruci (Lalitavistara >XIII.[32]) 269 > >Wilhelm RAU: Der Magnet im Alten Indien: Sanskrit Parallelen zu >Plinius: Naturalis Historia 34.42 285 > >Roland STEINER: Glossar (Sanskrit-Deutsch-Tibetisch) zum ersten >Gesang von Asvagho?as Buddhacarita 291 > >Klaus WILLE: Neue Fragmente des Candrasutra 339 > >www.iet-verlag.de > >--- >Prof. Dr. Michael Hahn >Ritterstr. 14 >D-35287 Amoeneburg >Tel. +49-6422-938963 >Fax: +49-6422-938967 >E-mail: hahn.m at t-online.de >URL: staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~hahnm -- http://belgianindology.lalibreblogs.be From jpeterso at UNI-OSNABRUECK.DE Fri Mar 6 08:26:47 2009 From: jpeterso at UNI-OSNABRUECK.DE (John Peterson) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 09 09:26:47 +0100 Subject: Language barriers --- financial barriers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085246.23782.8391792441252747543.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2127 Lines: 53 > Bear in mind that although OA is great for the reader, it means the author > bears the cost of publication. To have an OA article in a Springer > journal costs ?2000 at the moment. To have an OA article in the Lancet is > ?400 per page. PER PAGE! These prices are typical of the big houses, > Springer, Elsevier, etc. But not all journals are this expensive, and it > does seem possible to run an OA journal publishing business on fees of > about $400-$500 per article. Nevertheless, what about academic authors > who do not have institutional budgets behind them to support their > publishing? > Just a thought: There is already a small, but steadily increasing number of online, free-access journals for South Asian languages (a number are listed on my homepage, see below - more suggestions are ALWAYS welcome!). Would it not be a good idea to expand this type of publishing in general, in e.g. Classical South Asian studies as well? BTW: I myself am also involved in one of these more pricey series for monographs that have been discussed, so I am definitely not pointing fingers at anyone! But still, at least the journals I am referring to here are all peer reviewed and receive pretty much the same editing, etc. as any other comparable printed journal. The benefits are, of course, obvious - anyone anywhere can print out the articles freely, and since they are peer reviewed, they have (at least in my opinion) the same high standing as other journals. This is, incidentally, a growing trend in linguistics in general, not just South Asian linguistics, and one which I highly welcome. I'm not sure whether this can/should be extended to monographs in general, but at least with respect to journals it is definitely an idea worth considering. But for journals, it's already proven itself to be a viable alternative. Best, John -- John Peterson FB 7, Sprachwissenschaft Universit?t Osnabr?ck Neuer Graben 41 D-49069 Osnabr?ck Germany Telephone: (+49) (0)541-969 4252 Telefax: (+49) (0)541-969 4256 Homepages: http://www.ling.uni-osnabrueck.de/mitarbeiter/johpeter http://www.SouthAsiaBibliography.de/ From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Fri Mar 6 09:00:15 2009 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 09 10:00:15 +0100 Subject: AW: Language barriers --- financial barriers Message-ID: <161227085248.23782.3644056840217918894.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1392 Lines: 49 George Hart wrote: I can testify that there is an enormous scholarly literature in Tamil that is important for Indological studies -- and that it is in no way inferior in quality or learning to what is in German or English. The same is true of Malayalam, Kannada and Telugu -- and I suspect of the major North Indian languages. I would be interested to hear where any of the topics covered in Oskar von Hin?ber's "Kleine Schriften" are treated in these languages. If a student came to me and asked whether she should learn French, German, Tamil or Telugu, (...) I take it from George Hart's words that not too many students come to him to ask his advice in these matters. RG ________________________________________________ Dr. Reinhold Gruenendahl Niedersaechsische Staats- und Universitaetsbibliothek Fachreferat sued- und suedostasiatische Philologien (Dept. of Indology) 37070 Goettingen, Germany Tel (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 52 83 gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de FACH-INFORMATIONEN INDOLOGIE, GOETTINGEN: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindolo.htm In English: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindole.htm GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm GRETIL e-library: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gr_elib.htm From acharyadiwakar at HOTMAIL.COM Fri Mar 6 02:02:11 2009 From: acharyadiwakar at HOTMAIL.COM (diwakar acharya) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 09 11:02:11 +0900 Subject: MithilAyAM tu daghdhAyAm In-Reply-To: <20090306013552.GC6330@ubuntu> Message-ID: <161227085215.23782.8576183550343024993.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 440 Lines: 20 Dears, > > Mithila was just taken as the greatest and richest city Is not it the case that Mithila is the city of the philosopher king Janaka? That's why Mithila have special value, and the statement quoted is attributed to Janaka. Best regards, Diwakar _________________________________________________________________ More than messages?check out the rest of the Windows Live?. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/ From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Fri Mar 6 11:26:44 2009 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 09 12:26:44 +0100 Subject: Language barriers --- financial barriers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085251.23782.14850873171286674559.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1567 Lines: 45 I don't think it makes sense to oppose the need to read books (or journal) in German and the need to read books (or journals) in Tamil. Take the case of somebody who is interested in Tamil epigraphy. That person will probably have read Iravatham Mahadevan's book (/Early Tamil Epigraphy/, 2003, Cre-A [Chennai] and Harvard Oriental Series 62), which is in English. That person might be interested in reading Oskar von Hin?ber's 1986 book /Das ?ltere Mittelindisch im ?berblick/, Wien, which is in German, because it makes sense to try to understand the languages with which Tamil was in contact. That person might be a regular subscriber to the journal /?????/ [Avanam, Journal of the TamilNadu Archaeological Society, Thanjavur], which is purely in Tamil, because it is the most efficient way to be informed of new discoveries in the field of Tamil epigraphy and because it is edited by very competent scholars. The more languages one knows, the better. -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS, Universit? Paris-Diderot) Gruenendahl, Reinhold a ?crit : > George Hart wrote: > >> I can testify that there is an enormous scholarly literature in Tamil that is >> important for Indological studies -- and that it is in no way inferior in >> quality or learning to what is in German or English. The same is true of >> Malayalam, Kannada and Telugu -- and I suspect of the major North Indian >> languages. > > I would be interested to hear where any of the topics covered in Oskar von > Hin?ber's "Kleine Schriften" are treated in these languages. > > > > From dimitrov at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE Sat Mar 7 00:20:30 2009 From: dimitrov at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE (Dragomir Dimitrov) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 09 01:20:30 +0100 Subject: Language barriers --- financial barriers Message-ID: <161227085255.23782.15855013119063075477.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1015 Lines: 32 > I don't think it makes sense to oppose the need to read books (or > journal) in German [...] For those Sanskritists in search of a suitable German textbook, it may be useful to recall what George Abraham Grierson has remarked in his review of Bruno Liebich's "Sanskrit-Lesebuch" (1905): "Again, while the book will introduce Sanskrit to Europeans, it will equally well introduce German to Sanskrit Pa??its. If even half-a-dozen good Pa??its are helped to acquire German by its pages, it will have done excellent work." (Indian Antiquary. Vol. XXXV. Bombay 1906, p. 184). Liebich's Sanskrit Reader can be had for free from http://books.google.com. Cheers, D.D. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Dr. Dragomir Dimitrov FG Indologie und Tibetologie, Philipps-Universit?t Marburg Deutschhausstra?e 12, D-35032 Marburg, Germany http://www.uni-marburg.de/fb10/ios/indologie/dimitrov = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = From rrocher at SAS.UPENN.EDU Sat Mar 7 21:10:05 2009 From: rrocher at SAS.UPENN.EDU (Rosane Rocher) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 09 16:10:05 -0500 Subject: Tamil translation of the MitAk.sarA Message-ID: <161227085264.23782.5055435606423643399.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 399 Lines: 14 Dear colleagues, Might any one know if a Tamil translation of the Mitaksara, Vijnanesvara's commentary on the Yajnavalkyasmrti, begun by Porur Vadiyar, which his brother Chidambara Vadiyar, headmaster of Tamil at the College of Fort St George, completed after his death and submitted in 1815 for publication by the Madras government, was ever published? I would be grateful, Rosane Rocher From franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Sat Mar 7 15:36:25 2009 From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE (franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 09 16:36:25 +0100 Subject: Language barriers --- financial barriers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085257.23782.17042866226793931851.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3732 Lines: 85 I have not seen von Glasenapp will myself, so this is just hearsay. I was once told that he wanted his estate to provide scholarships for poor students of Indology, but his will was ?perverted? by the colleagues who were responsible for its execution in order to establish that series. Quoting Jonathan Silk : > A small note on Birgit's thoughtful contribution: > > On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 7:36 AM, Birgit Kellner > wrote: > >> ... > > > >> >> What I am wondering specifically in connection with Indological studies: >> whence the "enormous cost of publishing books an all types of 'oriental' >> topics in the so-called developed countries", as Michael Hahn puts it? Why, >> for instance, does the set of Oskar von Hin?ber's "Kleine Schriften" that >> was recently announced cost 178 Euros? Do the publishers take such great >> care with editing, layout and design as to justify such a price? (The >> technology required to typeset books in Asian languages can no longer >> justify such prices.) And if not: Why do authors decide to publish with >> publishers when they know exorbitant prices will be charged for their books? >> Is it because the publication with a major established publisher is believed >> to make more impact than a cheaper publication with one that is lesser >> known? Is it the publisher's reputation that people hope will also reflect >> on the reputation of their books? Is it the expected professionality of >> distribution, is it a hope for fame? Is it just habit, a lack of knowledge >> that other possibilities might exist? >> > > What Birgit delicately does not mention (apophatic discourse?) is that of > course with the exception of the introduction and Table of Contents, and > sometimes index, in these Glasenapp volumes, the entire thing is no more > than a photoreprint of already published materials (sometimes, in the case > anyway of Weller's work, for example, in barely legible copies). In Japan, > we find the mere binding of computer printouts. The recent volume on the, > if I recall correctly, Samyuktagama, from Sankibo costs 8000 yen, about 70 > Euros or so, for a paperback volume that could have been distributed by the > author in *exactly the same form* (in pdf, allowing readers to print and > bind it themselves) entirely freely. Why? (All the more so for fancy LaTex > stuff...) > > It may be that we need to work at changing the culture of value, that we > need to break the link between big-name publishers and scholarly value. > Heaven knows, each and every one of us could come up with an extensive list > of just bad books published by 'reputable' houses... > > I would like to emphasize that, like many of us, I *love* books, as physical > objects among other things, and I am *not* arguing for doing away with them! > But when you've got publishers publishing books with huge subventions from > funding bodies, and still charging outrageous prices, (and I confess I am on > the board of one such series), this is just, as we say to our kids, "not > OK." Maybe, as again Birgit says, the/a way to start is with funding bodies. > Already they stipulate from time to time exactly how much 'skim' > universities may take from grants. Maybe we should ask them to require free > or 'reasonably priced' publication of all works for which they pay in the > first place? (Then, how to define 'reasonable'?) > > sorry--the small note became not quite so small... > > jonathan > > > J. Silk > Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden > Postbus 9515 > 2300 RA Leiden > Netherlands > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Sat Mar 7 19:22:00 2009 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 09 19:22:00 +0000 Subject: Language barriers --- financial barriers Message-ID: <161227085260.23782.1997502808225560186.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1847 Lines: 45 > I have not seen von Glasenapp will myself, so this is just hearsay. I was once told that he wanted his estate to provide scholarships for poor students of Indology, but his will was ?perverted? by the colleagues who were responsible for its execution in order to establish that series. Someone or other may be inclined to spread rumours of "perverted" wills based on "just hearsay". Scholars, in particular, may however be interested rather in facts based on evidence: On the will of Helmuth von Glasenapp and its legal execution everybody who so wishes can inform themselves by simply consulting the site http://www.glasenapp-stiftung.de/40jahre.pdf (available 24hours/day; details on p. 3ff). Should the information given there be considered insufficient, further details can be got from the administration office: Helmuth von Glasenapp-Stiftung c/o Akademie der Wissenschaften und der Literatur Geschwister-Scholl-Stra?e 2 55131 Mainz Ansprechpartner: Dr. Carlo Servatius, Tel. 06131 16-2808, Fax 06131 16-4151 WS --------------------------------------- Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-Loens-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) Tel/Fax: +49-(0)3643 501391 ----------------------------------------- Seminar f?r Indologie Institut f?r Altertumswissenschaften Martin-Luther-Universit?t Halle-Wittenberg Emil-Abderhalden-Str. 9 D-06108 Halle (Germany) Tel: +49-(0)345-55-23650 Fax: +49-(0)345-55-27139 walter.slaje at indologie.uni-halle.de www.indologie.uni-halle.de ----------------------------------------- Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor me studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Sat Mar 7 20:46:14 2009 From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE (franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 09 20:46:14 +0000 Subject: Language barriers --- financial barriers In-Reply-To: <1Lg26n-2ISz0C0@fwd01.t-online.de> Message-ID: <161227085262.23782.7223463149895987745.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2299 Lines: 67 Thank you for this clarification, but do you really have to be so offensive? Does it make you feel better about yourself? And no, the information there is not sufficient. Quoting Walter Slaje : >> I have not seen von Glasenapp will myself, so this is just hearsay. I > was once told that he wanted his estate to provide scholarships for > poor students of Indology, but his will was ?perverted? by the > colleagues who were responsible for its execution in order to > establish that series. > > Someone or other may be inclined to spread rumours of "perverted" > wills based on "just hearsay". Scholars, in particular, may however > be interested rather in facts based on evidence: On the will of > Helmuth von Glasenapp and its legal execution everybody who so > wishes can inform themselves by simply consulting the site > http://www.glasenapp-stiftung.de/40jahre.pdf (available 24hours/day; > details on p. 3ff). > Should the information given there be considered insufficient, > further details can be got from the administration office: > > > Helmuth von Glasenapp-Stiftung > c/o Akademie der Wissenschaften und der Literatur > Geschwister-Scholl-Stra?e 2 > 55131 Mainz > Ansprechpartner: > Dr. Carlo Servatius, Tel. 06131 16-2808, Fax 06131 16-4151 > > > WS > > --------------------------------------- > Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje > Hermann-Loens-Str. 1 > D-99425 Weimar (Germany) > Tel/Fax: +49-(0)3643 501391 > ----------------------------------------- > Seminar f?r Indologie > Institut f?r Altertumswissenschaften > Martin-Luther-Universit?t Halle-Wittenberg > Emil-Abderhalden-Str. 9 > D-06108 Halle (Germany) > Tel: +49-(0)345-55-23650 > Fax: +49-(0)345-55-27139 > walter.slaje at indologie.uni-halle.de > www.indologie.uni-halle.de > ----------------------------------------- > Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor > me studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum > non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, > sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus > humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. > Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Sun Mar 8 14:28:20 2009 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Sun, 08 Mar 09 08:28:20 -0600 Subject: Forwarded Announcement In-Reply-To: <1212045754-5579.00013.00009-smmsdV2.1.6@smtp.bgsu.edu> Message-ID: <161227085274.23782.4992848154871144019.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4957 Lines: 111 Greetings to All. I am attaching a message that the organizers wanted me to broadcast. It is a conference on Asian religion and philosophy to be held in St. Petersburg -- in Februuary 2010 -- if you like the cold!! the organizer is Sergey Pakhomov Thanks. Patrick *************** SAINT-PETERSBURG STATE UNIVERSITY FACULTY OF PHILOSOPHY AND POLITICAL STUDIES DEPARTMENT OF EASTERN PHILOSOPHY AND CULTURE PHILOSOPHICAL SOCIETY OF SAINT-PETERSBURG 6th International Scientific Conference of Philosophy, Religion and Culture of Asian Countries (Torchinov readings) IDEALS - NORMS - VALUES CALL FOR PAPERS The SIXTH annual international scientific conference named in honor of Evgeny Torchinov (1956 - 2003), an outstanding Russian researcher of Asian cultures and methods of religions, is going to be held at the Faculty of Philosophy and Political Studies of the Saint-Petersburg State University (Russia) 3 - 6th February, 2010. The central focus of issues at the Readings this time will be concentrated on investigations of ideals, norms and values of Eastern cultures. POSSIBLE THEMES TO BE DISCUSSED: o Ideals of Asian religious traditions o Notions of values, ideals and norms in Asian systems of philosophy o Ideal society and ideal man at the East o System of values in Asian cultures o Oriental cultures in Western countries: exotics or norm? o Western values and norms in Asian countries: adoption and a rejection o Axiological imperatives in the era of the globalization: a contribution of the East o Understanding the spiritual values of Asian cultures in Russia and in countries of the West o Reflection of ideals of Asian traditions in literature and art o Systems of norms and the ideal of an individual in Asian traditions o Asian psycho technologies and norms of ordinary consciousness Sections of the conference will be formed on the basis of applications. The names of expected sections and announced rubricating might vary. As usual, Torchinov conference will strive for creating and keeping a multidisciplinary space for fruitful change of ideas between specialists studying different types, images and categories of Asian cultures; will tend to form new scientific approaches and methods in the field of Oriental studies; to elaborate theories and philosophy of Oriental investigations. Scholars and researchers of different aspects of philosophy, religion and culture of Asia are invited to take part in the conference. Also we invite philosophers, historians, anthropologists, psychologists and specialists in religious studies investigating Eastern range of issues. An application for the participation should be filled in electronic format at the conference's site which address is following: http://torchinov.ru/ru/reg_form/ There is a possibility for a participation in the conference without publication of your paper in the book of collected articles. Extramural participation isn't supposed. Dead-line of applications for non-residents of Russia is September 13, 2009. Besides that Org. committee accepts applications for the organization of round tables, presentations, proposals for organizations of cultural program till the end of December, 2009 Working languages of the conference are Russian and English. By the beginning of conference, we shall have planned to publish and distribute among the authors the CDs with summaries and full texts of papers in format of pdf. Publication of the collection on paper is planned after the conference, during 2010. A paper with size not more than 10.000-15.000 signs (in Word statistics), including gaps and footnotes must be sent for the publication. When designing the article, you must use as a pattern the technical example of execution of the text, which is on the site of the conference. Materials must be sent for the publication till September 13, 2009. Org. fee for participants not from Russia and from countries of CIS is 30 euro. This fee is to be paid on the day of the registration, i.e. the 1st day of the conference. All questions are welcome by e-mail: info at torchinov.ru/ Additional information about the conference is also at our site, see: http://torchinov.ru/ Organizational committee: Dr. Yury Solonin (President) P. Olivelle, PhD, professor (Univ. of Texas, Austin, USA) J. Mc-Rae, PhD, professor (Komazawa Univ., Tokyo, Japan) R. Gimello, Ph D, professor (Univ. of Notre Dame, Indiana, USA) Dr. Victor Petrenko Dr. Alexander Boronoev Dr. Prof. Marina Kravtsova Dr. Prof. Anatoly Kolesnikov Dr. Vladimir Emelyanov Dr. Cyril Solonin Dr. Tigran Tumanyan Dr. Sergey Pakhomov (general coordinator) Our contacts: Post address: 199034, Russia, Saint-Petersburg, Vasilievsky ostrov, Mendeleevskaya liniya, 5, Faculty of Philosophy, Department of Eastern Philosophy and Culture, room 110. Tel.: 7-812-328-9421 (additional 1852). E-mail: info at torchinov.ru Site: http://torchinov.ru From ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU Sun Mar 8 14:24:33 2009 From: ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Paul G. Hackett) Date: Sun, 08 Mar 09 10:24:33 -0400 Subject: OFFLIST -- Re: Forwarded Announcement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085276.23782.5727425920121420148.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5485 Lines: 126 Dear Dr. Olivelle, I noticed that the English language version of the "Registration Page" is actually still in Russian. See: http://torchinov.ru/en/reg_form Since you are listed as a member of the organizational committee, I thought I would pass this on to you. best wishes, Paul Hackett Columbia University Quoting Patrick Olivelle : > Greetings to All. I am attaching a message that the organizers wanted > me to broadcast. It is a conference on Asian religion and philosophy to > be held in St. Petersburg -- in Februuary 2010 -- if you like the > cold!! the organizer is Sergey Pakhomov > > Thanks. > > Patrick > > *************** > > SAINT-PETERSBURG STATE UNIVERSITY > FACULTY OF PHILOSOPHY AND POLITICAL STUDIES > DEPARTMENT OF EASTERN PHILOSOPHY AND CULTURE > PHILOSOPHICAL SOCIETY OF SAINT-PETERSBURG > > 6th International Scientific Conference of Philosophy, Religion and > Culture of Asian Countries (Torchinov readings) > IDEALS - NORMS - VALUES > > CALL FOR PAPERS > > The SIXTH annual international scientific conference named in honor of > Evgeny Torchinov (1956 - 2003), an outstanding Russian researcher of > Asian cultures and methods of religions, is going to be held at the > Faculty of Philosophy and Political Studies of the Saint-Petersburg > State University (Russia) 3 - 6th February, 2010. > The central focus of issues at the Readings this time will be > concentrated on investigations of ideals, norms and values of Eastern > cultures. > POSSIBLE THEMES TO BE DISCUSSED: > o Ideals of Asian religious traditions > o Notions of values, ideals and norms in Asian systems of philosophy > o Ideal society and ideal man at the East > o System of values in Asian cultures > o Oriental cultures in Western countries: exotics or norm? > o Western values and norms in Asian countries: adoption and a rejection > o Axiological imperatives in the era of the globalization: a > contribution of the East > o Understanding the spiritual values of Asian cultures in Russia and in > countries of the West > o Reflection of ideals of Asian traditions in literature and art > o Systems of norms and the ideal of an individual in Asian traditions > o Asian psycho technologies and norms of ordinary consciousness > Sections of the conference will be formed on the basis of applications. > The names of expected sections and announced rubricating might vary. > As usual, Torchinov conference will strive for creating and keeping a > multidisciplinary space for fruitful change of ideas between > specialists studying different types, images and categories of Asian > cultures; will tend to form new scientific approaches and methods in > the field of Oriental studies; to elaborate theories and philosophy of > Oriental investigations. > Scholars and researchers of different aspects of philosophy, religion > and culture of Asia are invited to take part in the conference. Also we > invite philosophers, historians, anthropologists, psychologists and > specialists in religious studies investigating Eastern range of issues. > An application for the participation should be filled in electronic > format at the conference's site which address is following: > http://torchinov.ru/ru/reg_form/ There is a possibility for a > participation in the conference without publication of your paper in > the book of collected articles. Extramural participation isn't supposed. > Dead-line of applications for non-residents of Russia is September 13, 2009. > Besides that Org. committee accepts applications for the organization > of round tables, presentations, proposals for organizations of cultural > program till the end of December, 2009 > Working languages of the conference are Russian and English. > > By the beginning of conference, we shall have planned to publish and > distribute among the authors the CDs with summaries and full texts of > papers in format of pdf. Publication of the collection on paper is > planned after the conference, during 2010. A paper with size not more > than 10.000-15.000 signs (in Word statistics), including gaps and > footnotes must be sent for the publication. When designing the article, > you must use as a pattern the technical example of execution of the > text, which is on the site of the conference. Materials must be sent > for the publication till September 13, 2009. > Org. fee for participants not from Russia and from countries of CIS is > 30 euro. This fee is to be paid on the day of the registration, i.e. > the 1st day of the conference. > All questions are welcome by e-mail: info at torchinov.ru/ Additional > information about the conference is also at our site, see: > http://torchinov.ru/ > > Organizational committee: > > Dr. Yury Solonin (President) > P. Olivelle, PhD, professor (Univ. of Texas, Austin, USA) > J. Mc-Rae, PhD, professor (Komazawa Univ., Tokyo, Japan) > R. Gimello, Ph D, professor (Univ. of Notre Dame, Indiana, USA) > Dr. Victor Petrenko > Dr. Alexander Boronoev > Dr. Prof. Marina Kravtsova > Dr. Prof. Anatoly Kolesnikov > Dr. Vladimir Emelyanov > Dr. Cyril Solonin > Dr. Tigran Tumanyan > Dr. Sergey Pakhomov (general coordinator) > > Our contacts: > Post address: 199034, Russia, Saint-Petersburg, Vasilievsky ostrov, > Mendeleevskaya liniya, 5, Faculty of Philosophy, Department of Eastern > Philosophy and Culture, room 110. > Tel.: 7-812-328-9421 (additional 1852). > E-mail: info at torchinov.ru > Site: http://torchinov.ru From veerankp at GMAIL.COM Sun Mar 8 06:37:24 2009 From: veerankp at GMAIL.COM (veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Sun, 08 Mar 09 12:07:24 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_CALL_FOR_SUPPORT>_SARIT:_Search_and_Retrieval_of__Indic_Texts______________=E2=80=93_Future_Development_(Wujastyk/Mahoney)?= In-Reply-To: <1236474754.24334.304.camel@proliant> Message-ID: <161227085269.23782.12175521497256573163.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 923 Lines: 45 > > > > > 8.3.09 > > Dr. Dominik WUJASTYK, > International Institute of Asian Studies, > Nonnensteeg 1-3, > 2311 VJ Leiden, > The Netherlands > > > > Dear Dr. Wujastyk, > > > I am writing this letter to express my support for your SARIT proposal: > ``SARIT: Search and Retrieval of Indic Texts ? Future Development''. I > have used/plan to use the material available through the INDOLOGY web > site and the SARIT web application to advance my work on [RESEARCH > TOPIC]. I look forward to using the expanded version of SARIT. > > > > > The aims of your proposal will greatly enhance such efforts by enabling > me to use SARIT for textual and philological research. I wish you > success in these endeavours. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi > Head, Dept of Darshanas, > Yoganandacharya Bhavan, > Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post > Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026. > From veerankp at GMAIL.COM Sun Mar 8 06:39:11 2009 From: veerankp at GMAIL.COM (veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Sun, 08 Mar 09 12:09:11 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_CALL_FOR_SUPPORT>_SARIT:_Search_and_Retrieval_of__Indic_Texts______________=E2=80=93_Future_Development_(Wujastyk/Mahoney)?= In-Reply-To: <965fdc5f0903072237m39cd73bqf399f78b2da55e5c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227085271.23782.13829770896397297686.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 291 Lines: 13 I sincerely apolagise for sending the letter supposed to be sent to Dr. Dominik WUJASTYK, sorry veeranarayana Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi Head, Dept of Darshanas, Yoganandacharya Bhavan, Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026. From r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG Sun Mar 8 01:12:35 2009 From: r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Sun, 08 Mar 09 14:12:35 +1300 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?CALL_FOR_SUPPORT>_SARIT:_Search_and_Retrieval_of_Indic_Texts______________=E2=80=93_Future_Development_(Wujastyk/Mahoney)?= Message-ID: <161227085267.23782.10831686276653979056.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3244 Lines: 134 [Apologies for cross posting] Dear Colleagues, We are submitting a proposal to The British Association for South Asian Studies (BASAS) to request funding to increase the number of texts available through the `SARIT: Search and Retrieval of Indic Texts' web application: http://sarit.indology.info/top.shtml To strengthen our proposal we are requesting letters of support from our users. We intend to increase the number of Indic texts included in the SARIT database, initially focusing on many of the texts generously contributed by the Kyoto scholars: http://www.cc.kyoto-su.ac.jp/~yanom/sanskrit/ Your letters of support are important for our proposal. They will give members of The BASAS Council a sense of the scale and scope of the user community of the INDOLOGY web site, and especially of SARIT. The BASAS Council members will make their funding decision on the basis of the following criteria: why you believe the INDOLOGY site and the SARIT Project are needed; and why you believe they are significant. We enclose below a sample letter of support. Please add a few sentences to this letter to indicate specifically how you or your students use or plan to use SARIT. After completing the letter could you please print it on your institution's letterhead and sign it. You can then: 1.) mail, or 2.) scan and email, or 3.) fax the letter as indicated below. ** Please note that the deadline for our proposal to The BASAS Council is Monday the 16th March, so please send your letters of support to us by Friday the 13th of March. ** 1.) Send your completed signed letter by ordinary mail to: Dr. Dominik WUJASTYK, International Institute of Asian Studies, Nonnensteeg 1-3, 2311 VJ Leiden, The Netherlands 2.) Scan your signed letter and email it to: Dominik WUJASTYK 3.) Fax your signed letter attention Dominik WUJASTYK to: +31-71-5274162 Thank you very much in advance for your help. With kind regards, Dominik WUJASTYK Richard MAHONEY ************* Begin Letter ************* [DATE] Dr. Dominik WUJASTYK, International Institute of Asian Studies, Nonnensteeg 1-3, 2311 VJ Leiden, The Netherlands Dear Dr. Wujastyk, I am writing this letter to express my support for your SARIT proposal: ``SARIT: Search and Retrieval of Indic Texts ? Future Development''. I have used/plan to use the material available through the INDOLOGY web site and the SARIT web application to advance my work on [RESEARCH TOPIC]. I look forward to using the expanded version of SARIT. [Optional: EXAMPLE USES OF THE INDOLOGY WEB SITE AND SARIT IN TEACHING AND RESEARCH] The aims of your proposal will greatly enhance such efforts by enabling me to use SARIT for textual and philological research. I wish you success in these endeavours. Sincerely, [NAME TITLE ADDRESS] ************* End Letter ************* -- Richard MAHONEY | internet: http://indica-et-buddhica.org/ Littledene | telephone/telefax (man.): +64 3 312 1699 Bay Road | cellular: +64 275 829 986 OXFORD, NZ | email: r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Indica et Buddhica: Materials for Indology and Buddhology From franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Sun Mar 8 23:58:34 2009 From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE (franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 09 00:58:34 +0100 Subject: Language barriers --- financial barriers In-Reply-To: <1Lg26n-2ISz0C0@fwd01.t-online.de> Message-ID: <161227085278.23782.17022581682076139543.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2825 Lines: 76 I am now able to be a bit more precise about the source of the hearsay about Glasenapp?s wishes not being respected by the Glasenapp Foundation. It comes from a student of Paul Thieme, who heard it directly from Thieme himself. This does not make the hearsay true, but I also see no reason for them to make up such a story. As Dharmakirti said of the Buddha: vaiphalyaad vakti naan.r.nam. If Prof. Slaje has seen von Glasenapp?s will, perhaps he should tell us so, and if he hasn?t, he should not pretend to know what?s in it. The official homepage of the Glasenapp Foundation, to which he refers and in which the will is not quoted, is immaterial to the matter. Best wishes, Eli Franco Quoting Walter Slaje : >> I have not seen von Glasenapp will myself, so this is just hearsay. I > was once told that he wanted his estate to provide scholarships for > poor students of Indology, but his will was ?perverted? by the > colleagues who were responsible for its execution in order to > establish that series. > > Someone or other may be inclined to spread rumours of "perverted" > wills based on "just hearsay". Scholars, in particular, may however > be interested rather in facts based on evidence: On the will of > Helmuth von Glasenapp and its legal execution everybody who so > wishes can inform themselves by simply consulting the site > http://www.glasenapp-stiftung.de/40jahre.pdf (available 24hours/day; > details on p. 3ff). > Should the information given there be considered insufficient, > further details can be got from the administration office: > > > Helmuth von Glasenapp-Stiftung > c/o Akademie der Wissenschaften und der Literatur > Geschwister-Scholl-Stra?e 2 > 55131 Mainz > Ansprechpartner: > Dr. Carlo Servatius, Tel. 06131 16-2808, Fax 06131 16-4151 > > > WS > > --------------------------------------- > Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje > Hermann-Loens-Str. 1 > D-99425 Weimar (Germany) > Tel/Fax: +49-(0)3643 501391 > ----------------------------------------- > Seminar f?r Indologie > Institut f?r Altertumswissenschaften > Martin-Luther-Universit?t Halle-Wittenberg > Emil-Abderhalden-Str. 9 > D-06108 Halle (Germany) > Tel: +49-(0)345-55-23650 > Fax: +49-(0)345-55-27139 > walter.slaje at indologie.uni-halle.de > www.indologie.uni-halle.de > ----------------------------------------- > Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor > me studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum > non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, > sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus > humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. > Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Mon Mar 9 08:19:00 2009 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 09 08:19:00 +0000 Subject: Language barriers --- financial barriers Message-ID: <161227085281.23782.1823466663225783140.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1751 Lines: 42 Would-be investigators are invited to accept my initial suggestion (repeated, I am afraid, again in vain) by starting to make their inquiries with the contact person of the HvG-Foundation: > > Should the information given there be considered insufficient, > > further details can be got from the administration office: > > Helmuth von Glasenapp-Stiftung > > c/o Akademie der Wissenschaften und der Literatur > > Geschwister-Scholl-Stra?e 2 > > 55131 Mainz > > Ansprechpartner: > > Dr. Carlo Servatius, Tel. 06131 16-2808, Fax 06131 16-4151 > > WS The list must not serve as a platform for insinuations, and detective games are better lived out in a private sphere. I am really sorry to say that - being under constant deadline pressure - I am forced to establish priorities and can no longer participate in pointless discussions. I have no time to mount Prof. Franco's hobbyhorse, but take it he feels happy enough being on it alone. ---------------------------------------- Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-Loens-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) Tel/Fax: +49-(0)3643 501391 ----------------------------------------- Seminar f?r Indologie Institut f?r Altertumswissenschaften Martin-Luther-Universit?t Halle-Wittenberg Emil-Abderhalden-Str. 9 D-06108 Halle (Germany) Tel: +49-(0)345-55-23650 Fax: +49-(0)345-55-27139 walter.slaje at indologie.uni-halle.de www.indologie.uni-halle.de ----------------------------------------- Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor me studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK Mon Mar 9 10:38:49 2009 From: wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK (Whitney Cox) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 09 10:38:49 +0000 Subject: Conference announcement: 22-23 May, Cambridge University Message-ID: <161227085283.23782.5807352615315309685.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 923 Lines: 35 Dear friends and colleagues, I'm delighted to announce the upcoming workshop Bilingual Discourse and Cross-cultural Fertilisation: Sanskrit and Tamil in Mediaeval India, to be held at Wolfson College, Cambridge University 22 and 23 May, 2009. The workshop will be convened by Dr. Vincenzo Vergiani (Cambridge) and myself, and is possible thanks to the financial support of the British Academy. Details of the workshop, including (most of) the participants' abstracts can be found at the following URL: http://www.ames.cam.ac.uk/news_events/sanskrit-tamil-mediaeval-india.htm Not all of the abstracts are as yet posted (including both of the convenors'!) so please check back as the date draws nearer. All are welcome to attend, Best, Whitney -- Dr. Whitney Cox Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, School of Oriental and African Studies Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square London WC1H 0XG From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Mon Mar 9 10:05:15 2009 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 09 11:05:15 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Correction_of_postal_address_(was:_Re:_CALL_FOR_SUPPORT>_SARIT:______________Search_and_Retrieval_of_Indic_Texts_=E2=80=93_Future______________Development_(Wujastyk/Mahoney))?= In-Reply-To: <1236474754.24334.304.camel@proliant> Message-ID: <161227085285.23782.10962051933129831913.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3448 Lines: 153 Dear Colleagues, If you wish to send a letter of support by post, kindly use this address: Dr Dominik Wujastyk, International Institute for Asian Studies, P.O. Box 9515 2300RA Leiden The Netherlands Rather than the "Nonnensteeg" address given in the original announcement. Many thanks, Dominik Wujastyk -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk On Sun, 8 Mar 2009, Richard MAHONEY wrote: > [Apologies for cross posting] > > > Dear Colleagues, > > We are submitting a proposal to The British Association for South Asian > Studies (BASAS) to request funding to increase the number of texts > available through the `SARIT: Search and Retrieval of Indic Texts' web > application: > > http://sarit.indology.info/top.shtml > > To strengthen our proposal we are requesting letters of support from > our users. We intend to increase the number of Indic texts included in > the SARIT database, initially focusing on many of the texts generously > contributed by the Kyoto scholars: > > http://www.cc.kyoto-su.ac.jp/~yanom/sanskrit/ > > Your letters of support are important for our proposal. They will give > members of The BASAS Council a sense of the scale and scope of the user > community of the INDOLOGY web site, and especially of SARIT. The BASAS > Council members will make their funding decision on the basis of the > following criteria: why you believe the INDOLOGY site and the SARIT > Project are needed; and why you believe they are significant. > > We enclose below a sample letter of support. Please add a few sentences > to this letter to indicate specifically how you or your students use or > plan to use SARIT. After completing the letter could you please print > it on your institution's letterhead and sign it. You can then: > > 1.) mail, or > > 2.) scan and email, or > > 3.) fax the letter as indicated below. > > > ** Please note that the deadline for our proposal to The BASAS Council > is Monday the 16th March, so please send your letters of support to us > by Friday the 13th of March. ** > > > 1.) Send your completed signed letter by ordinary mail to: > > Dr. Dominik WUJASTYK, > International Institute of Asian Studies, > Nonnensteeg 1-3, > 2311 VJ Leiden, > The Netherlands > > > 2.) Scan your signed letter and email it to: > > Dominik WUJASTYK > > > 3.) Fax your signed letter attention Dominik WUJASTYK to: > > +31-71-5274162 > > > Thank you very much in advance for your help. > > > > With kind regards, > > Dominik WUJASTYK > Richard MAHONEY > > > > ************* > Begin Letter > ************* > > [DATE] > > Dr. Dominik WUJASTYK, > International Institute of Asian Studies, > Nonnensteeg 1-3, > 2311 VJ Leiden, > The Netherlands > > > > Dear Dr. Wujastyk, > > > I am writing this letter to express my support for your SARIT proposal: > ``SARIT: Search and Retrieval of Indic Texts ? Future Development''. I > have used/plan to use the material available through the INDOLOGY web > site and the SARIT web application to advance my work on [RESEARCH > TOPIC]. I look forward to using the expanded version of SARIT. > > > [Optional: EXAMPLE USES OF THE INDOLOGY WEB SITE AND SARIT IN TEACHING > AND RESEARCH] > > > The aims of your proposal will greatly enhance such efforts by enabling > me to use SARIT for textual and philological research. I wish you > success in these endeavours. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > [NAME > > TITLE > > ADDRESS] > > > ************* > End Letter > ************* > > > > From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Mon Mar 9 11:28:31 2009 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 09 12:28:31 +0100 Subject: Language barriers --- financial barriers In-Reply-To: <33AB24D542634D22AAAD8754278B7094@VICPC> Message-ID: <161227085290.23782.6577343184344482342.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3186 Lines: 93 The INDOLOGY forum has no moderator. Once you are a member of this list, you are free to post what you like, and your message is not intercepted or edited before it goes out in general circulation. When you join this forum, however, you *are* asked to read and then abide by the rules of the list, which are posted on the website. See http://indology.info and click on the right, "Scope and Guidelines". See also "RFC 1855", also on the right, for general rules of Netiquette that apply to all internet usage. The INDOLOGY committee's function is primarily to examine the CVs of scholars who apply for membership and to vote on admittance. We are very reluctant to intervene in any matters beyond this. Best, Dominik Wujastyk -- INDOLOGY committee member on duty this week. On Mon, 9 Mar 2009, victor van Bijlert wrote: > It seems this forum is being used to wage private battles. Perhaps the > moderator should discourage this type of discussions. They do not belong in > a forum that is allegedly devoted to discussing purely academic questions in > the field of Indology. > Victor van Bijlert > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens Walter Slaje > Verzonden: maandag 9 maart 2009 9:19 > Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Onderwerp: Re: Language barriers --- financial barriers > > Would-be investigators are invited to accept my initial suggestion > (repeated, I am afraid, again in vain) by starting to make their inquiries > with the contact person of the HvG-Foundation: > >>> Should the information given there be considered insufficient, >>> further details can be got from the administration office: > >>> Helmuth von Glasenapp-Stiftung >>> c/o Akademie der Wissenschaften und der Literatur >>> Geschwister-Scholl-Stra?e 2 >>> 55131 Mainz >>> Ansprechpartner: >>> Dr. Carlo Servatius, Tel. 06131 16-2808, Fax 06131 16-4151 > >>> WS > > The list must not serve as a platform for insinuations, and detective games > are better lived out in a private sphere. I am really sorry to say that - > being under constant deadline pressure - I am forced to establish priorities > and can no longer participate in pointless discussions. I have no time to > mount Prof. Franco's hobbyhorse, but take it he feels happy enough being on > it alone. > > > ---------------------------------------- > Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje > Hermann-Loens-Str. 1 > D-99425 Weimar (Germany) > Tel/Fax: +49-(0)3643 501391 > ----------------------------------------- > Seminar f?r Indologie > Institut f?r Altertumswissenschaften > Martin-Luther-Universit?t Halle-Wittenberg > Emil-Abderhalden-Str. 9 > D-06108 Halle (Germany) > Tel: +49-(0)345-55-23650 > Fax: +49-(0)345-55-27139 > walter.slaje at indologie.uni-halle.de > www.indologie.uni-halle.de > ----------------------------------------- > Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor > me studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum > non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, > sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus > humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. > Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. > From victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL Mon Mar 9 12:16:18 2009 From: victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL (victor van Bijlert) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 09 13:16:18 +0100 Subject: Language barriers --- financial barriers In-Reply-To: <1LgajU-1cGWeG0@fwd05.t-online.de> Message-ID: <161227085287.23782.17769049410346583853.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2250 Lines: 62 It seems this forum is being used to wage private battles. Perhaps the moderator should discourage this type of discussions. They do not belong in a forum that is allegedly devoted to discussing purely academic questions in the field of Indology. Victor van Bijlert -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens Walter Slaje Verzonden: maandag 9 maart 2009 9:19 Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Onderwerp: Re: Language barriers --- financial barriers Would-be investigators are invited to accept my initial suggestion (repeated, I am afraid, again in vain) by starting to make their inquiries with the contact person of the HvG-Foundation: > > Should the information given there be considered insufficient, > > further details can be got from the administration office: > > Helmuth von Glasenapp-Stiftung > > c/o Akademie der Wissenschaften und der Literatur > > Geschwister-Scholl-Stra?e 2 > > 55131 Mainz > > Ansprechpartner: > > Dr. Carlo Servatius, Tel. 06131 16-2808, Fax 06131 16-4151 > > WS The list must not serve as a platform for insinuations, and detective games are better lived out in a private sphere. I am really sorry to say that - being under constant deadline pressure - I am forced to establish priorities and can no longer participate in pointless discussions. I have no time to mount Prof. Franco's hobbyhorse, but take it he feels happy enough being on it alone. ---------------------------------------- Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-Loens-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) Tel/Fax: +49-(0)3643 501391 ----------------------------------------- Seminar f?r Indologie Institut f?r Altertumswissenschaften Martin-Luther-Universit?t Halle-Wittenberg Emil-Abderhalden-Str. 9 D-06108 Halle (Germany) Tel: +49-(0)345-55-23650 Fax: +49-(0)345-55-27139 walter.slaje at indologie.uni-halle.de www.indologie.uni-halle.de ----------------------------------------- Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor me studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Mon Mar 9 12:19:00 2009 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 09 13:19:00 +0100 Subject: Maurer's Sanskrit course In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085292.23782.13493270037983899699.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 599 Lines: 30 It arrived last week, and I'm delighted. Over 830 pages with a newly-added subject index. Since Routledge's decision to reprint this 2-volume Sanskrit course as an affordable single-volume paperback was taken as a result of the urging of several members of this INDOLOGY forum, I hope we will support the purchase of the book as appropriate. see your local store, or http://astore.amazon.co.uk/theindologybooks Best, Dominik -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk On Tue, 3 Feb 2009, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > If bought from amazon.co.uk, the book is ?29.75, with free postage in the UK. > > From w.t.douglas at ABDN.AC.UK Mon Mar 9 14:21:15 2009 From: w.t.douglas at ABDN.AC.UK (Will Tuladhar-Douglas) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 09 14:21:15 +0000 Subject: Maurer's Sanskrit course In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085295.23782.15945717467733196449.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 781 Lines: 28 On 9 Mar 2009, at 12:19, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > It arrived last week, and I'm delighted. Over 830 pages with a > newly-added subject index. > > Since Routledge's decision to reprint this 2-volume Sanskrit course > as an > affordable single-volume paperback was taken as a result of the > urging of > several members of this INDOLOGY forum, I hope we will support the > purchase of the book as appropriate. > Already in use by a fresh crop of Sanskrit students in Aberdeen. Excellent book. My thanks to the list, from my students, for making it available. -WBTD. - - -- --- ----- -------- ------------- Dr. Will Tuladhar-Douglas Anthropology, History: Religion, Ecology Scottish Centre for Himalayan Research University of Aberdeen +44 (0)1224 272 274 From axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE Mon Mar 9 15:11:48 2009 From: axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE (Axel Michaels) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 09 15:11:48 +0000 Subject: Summer Schools in Spoken Sanskrit and Nepali Message-ID: <161227085299.23782.10305025074837778519.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 687 Lines: 15 We proudly announce that this year the tenth anniversary of the Summer School in Spoken Sanskrit takes place. Also again offered is the Nepali Crash Course: For information and online applications see http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/studium/summerschool.php Kindly forward this mail to anybody interested and make it known to your students. Axel Michaels Prof. Dr. Axel Michaels, University of Heidelberg, South Asia Institute, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, D-69120 Heidelberg, Tel. +49-6221-548917 / Fax +49-6221-546338, http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/index.html, http://www.ritualdynamik.uni-hd.de, http://vjc.uni-hd.de, Axel.Michaels at urz.uni-heidelberg.de From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Mon Mar 9 14:58:22 2009 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 09 15:58:22 +0100 Subject: AW: Language barriers --- financial barriers Message-ID: <161227085297.23782.10257663322103351650.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2756 Lines: 71 On 9 Mar 2009 at 13:16, victor van Bijlert wrote: > It seems this forum is being used to wage private battles. Perhaps the > moderator should discourage this type of discussions. They do not belong in > a forum that is allegedly devoted to discussing purely academic questions in > the field of Indology. > Victor van Bijlert I freely admit that this debate is quite a challenge for me. Actually my difficulties already started with the term "barriers". According to the OED, a barrier is something "to prevent access". Is it to be assumed, then, that some indologists publish(ed) in, say, German in order to prevent access to the results of their research? I also admit my profound ignorance of any number of languages that might be useful for my work. But it never occurred to me to see this as "a fence or obstruction erected [by someone else] to bar [my] advance" (roughly what the OED says). It is entirely up to me to learn these languages, and should I choose to ignore the material published in them, it is my sole responsibility. No tales of domination to be spun here! Victor van Bijlert could have voiced his concern way back when the debate turned to finance - hardly "purely academic questions". He didn't. And neither he nor any member of the committee intervene when Eli Franco started to spread rumors about the Helmuth von Glasenapp-Stiftung, although they could hardly be called "well-considered" (as the INDOLOGY rules have it). So far he doesn't even seem to have considered the possibility that the reaction he provoked might have something to do with his behaviour. It is still a mystery to me how the debate was steered into the direction of the Helmuth von Glasenapp-Stiftung, and I cannot see who expects to gain from this, except in terms of attention - undeserved attention, in my view. I would have wished for a little more gratitude and respect (if that isn't a forbidden word) for a foundation that has been of invaluable service to many scholars over decades. May it be an example for others. Reinhold Gr?nendahl ________________________________________________ Dr. Reinhold Gruenendahl Niedersaechsische Staats- und Universitaetsbibliothek Fachreferat sued- und suedostasiatische Philologien (Dept. of Indology) 37070 Goettingen, Germany Tel (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 52 83 gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de FACH-INFORMATIONEN INDOLOGIE, GOETTINGEN: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindolo.htm In English: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindole.htm GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm GRETIL e-library: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gr_elib.htm From franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Mon Mar 9 16:15:23 2009 From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE (franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 09 17:15:23 +0100 Subject: AW: Language barriers --- financial barriers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085301.23782.13792315549211744733.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3550 Lines: 95 Let me assure you that I have no private battle with Prof. Slaje, nor with the Glasenapp Foundation, and that I consider the ?Kleine Schriften? series extremely useful, irrespectively of the question whether it was established according to Glasenapp?s wishes or not. It would be a good idea to establish similar series in other countries as well. It is touching to see how whenever Prof. Slaje is involved in a debate Dr. Gruenendahl comes to his rescue. Best wishes EF Quoting "Gruenendahl, Reinhold" : > On 9 Mar 2009 at 13:16, victor van Bijlert wrote: > >> It seems this forum is being used to wage private battles. Perhaps the > >> moderator should discourage this type of discussions. They do not belong in > >> a forum that is allegedly devoted to discussing purely academic questions > in > >> the field of Indology. > >> Victor van Bijlert > > I freely admit that this debate is quite a challenge for me. Actually my > difficulties already started with the term "barriers". According to the OED, > a barrier is something "to prevent access". Is it to be assumed, then, that > some indologists publish(ed) in, say, German in order to prevent access to > the results of their research? > > I also admit my profound ignorance of any number of languages that might be > useful for my work. But it never occurred to me to see this as "a fence or > obstruction erected [by someone else] to bar [my] advance" (roughly what the > OED says). It is entirely up to me to learn these languages, and should I > choose to ignore the material published in them, it is my sole > responsibility. No tales of domination to be spun here! > > Victor van Bijlert could have voiced his concern way back when the debate > turned to finance - hardly "purely academic questions". He didn't. And > neither he nor any member of the committee intervene when Eli Franco started > to spread rumors about the Helmuth von Glasenapp-Stiftung, although they > could hardly be called "well-considered" (as the INDOLOGY rules have it). So > far he doesn't even seem to have considered the possibility that the reaction > he provoked might have something to do with his behaviour. > > It is still a mystery to me how the debate was steered into the direction of > the Helmuth von Glasenapp-Stiftung, and I cannot see who expects to gain from > this, except in terms of attention - undeserved attention, in my view. I > would have wished for a little more gratitude and respect (if that isn't a > forbidden word) for a foundation that has been of invaluable service to many > scholars over decades. May it be an example for others. > > Reinhold Gr?nendahl > > > ________________________________________________ > > Dr. Reinhold Gruenendahl > Niedersaechsische Staats- und Universitaetsbibliothek > Fachreferat sued- und suedostasiatische Philologien > (Dept. of Indology) > > 37070 Goettingen, Germany > Tel (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 52 83 > > gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de > > FACH-INFORMATIONEN INDOLOGIE, GOETTINGEN: > http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindolo.htm > In English: > http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindole.htm > > GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: > http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm > > GRETIL e-library: > http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gr_elib.htm > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Mon Mar 9 17:46:36 2009 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 09 18:46:36 +0100 Subject: AW: AW: Language barriers --- financial barriers Message-ID: <161227085303.23782.11036279130432821290.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 389 Lines: 24 On 9 Mar 2009 at 17:15, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE wrote: > It is touching to see how whenever Prof. Slaje is involved in a debate > Dr. Gruenendahl comes to his rescue. > Best wishes > EF Dear Professor Franco, since you brought this up, may I ask you to give one example? Otherwise I would have to consider your remark a mere fabrication. With due respect R. Gr?nendahl From franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Mon Mar 9 20:09:55 2009 From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE (franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 09 21:09:55 +0100 Subject: AW: AW: Language barriers --- financial barriers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085305.23782.9652725721421230600.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 733 Lines: 38 I will try to refresh Dr. Gruenendahl?s memory off the list. I am sure everybody had enough of this by now. Quoting "Gruenendahl, Reinhold" : > On 9 Mar 2009 at 17:15, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE wrote: > >> It is touching to see how whenever Prof. Slaje is involved in a debate > >> Dr. Gruenendahl comes to his rescue. > >> Best wishes > >> EF > > Dear Professor Franco, > > since you brought this up, may I ask you to give one example? > > Otherwise I would have to consider your remark a mere fabrication. > > > > With due respect > > R. Gr?nendahl > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From hellwig7 at GMX.DE Mon Mar 9 22:05:12 2009 From: hellwig7 at GMX.DE (Oliver Hellwig) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 09 22:05:12 +0000 Subject: PDF dictionaries Message-ID: <161227085307.23782.8426839050520198467.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 161 Lines: 9 Dear list, PDF dictionaries of the Ramayana and the Bodhicaryavatara are available at www.sanskritreader.de/dictionaries/dictionaries.htm. Best, O. Hellwig From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Tue Mar 10 08:36:52 2009 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 09 09:36:52 +0100 Subject: AW: Language barriers --- financial barriers Message-ID: <161227085309.23782.13005891205930002471.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1569 Lines: 47 On 9 Mar 2009 at 21:09, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE wrote: > I will try to refresh Dr. Gruenendahl's memory off the list. I am sure > everybody had enough of this by now. Apologies to everybody who has had enough of this. I thank Professor Franco for his kind assistance in refreshing my memory. As I see it, the significance of the case he referred to offline lies not so much in my agreement with Walter Slaje (actually I had endorsed his forwarding of third-party information), but in my perceived disagreement with Professor Franco, who was not altogether disinterested in the case and its decision before a German court. I understand that this is the reason why he would rather not discuss it in public. So we still are where we were yesterday: I would have to consider Professor Franco's remark a mere fabrication unless he comes up with evidence that is presentable to the public, preferably a case in which he had no personal interest, if that isn't asking too much. It goes without saying that at least one more example would be needed to get anywhere near the "whenever"-pattern insinuated in his remark. Talking about patterns, there is another one that seems all too familiar: "I have made my point, and now that I have been asked to prove it I am sure everyone had enough of it." Reinhold Gr?nendahl ***************************************** On 9 Mar 2009 at 17:15, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE wrote: > It is touching to see how whenever Prof. Slaje is involved in a debate > Dr. Gruenendahl comes to his rescue. > Best wishes > EF From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Tue Mar 10 12:49:01 2009 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 09 12:49:01 +0000 Subject: Fwd: Advertising the job at Paris-3 In-Reply-To: <20090309221255.7D7AC7000082@mwinf2a24.orange.fr> Message-ID: <161227085311.23782.12820640394362207334.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1605 Lines: 58 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Nalini Balbir Date: 2009/3/9 Subject: Advertising the job at Paris-3 To: wujastyk at gmail.com Dear Dominik, Given the new rules, that a foreign scholar can apply directly to a job in France, it would perhaps be adequate to advertise the job at Paris-3 on INDOLOGY. Could you please do this for us? With thanks and best regards, Yours sincerely, Nalini. *Professor position at the University of Paris-3 Sorbonne Nouvelle *0751719L UNIVERSITE PARIS 3 (SORBONNE NOUVELLE) 856 46-1 PR Non 15 01/09/2009 03/03/2009 02/04/2009 "Histoire et traditions textuelles de l'Inde et de l'ASIE du Sud-Est" PARIS (Knowledge of French required) Method for applying "Les candidats doivent se connecter sur le site du Minist?re de l?enseignement sup?rieur et de la recherche : http://www.enseignementsup-recherche.gouv.fr, rubrique ? concours, emplois et carri?res ? puis ?galaxie? du 03 mars 2009 ? 10h00, heure de Paris, jusqu?au 02 avril 2009 16h00, heure de Paris. La composition du dossier est indiqu?e sur l?arr?t? du 15 septembre 2008 ? Journal Officiel du 23 septembre 2008 consultable ?galement sur l?application galaxie. *Les dossiers complets doivent ?tre adress?s aux ?tablissements par courrier postal avant le 02 avril 2009 avant minuit, le cachet de la poste faisant foi: Universit? Paris-3 Sorbonne Nouvelle, Service du Personnel enseignant, 17, rue de la Sorbonne, 75230 Paris Cedex 05". * * * -- PGP key:http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/pgp.html Fingerprint: 2323 94BE C35F B7E2 309F BA7C 97D3 1A77 91DA CAC0 From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA Wed Mar 11 18:56:13 2009 From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 09 14:56:13 -0400 Subject: Advertising the job at Paris-3 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085314.23782.6372860035719523369.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 375 Lines: 17 Just for fun I tried to find the advertisement according to the instructions provided. It seems one needs a degree in computer science to access it. Best of luck to those who need a job! Stella Sandahl -- Stella Sandahl ssandahl at sympatico.ca On 10-Mar-09, at 8:49 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > *Professor position at the University of Paris-3 Sorbonne Nouvelle From kiparsky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU Thu Mar 12 16:10:13 2009 From: kiparsky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU (Paul Kiparsky) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 09 09:10:13 -0700 Subject: A pedantic correction (but it's still a good story) In-Reply-To: <20090305T184246Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227085318.23782.16841305244535326479.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1669 Lines: 49 Thanks to Cal Watkins and Byron Bender I now have a more authentic version of the story, as good as we are likely to get. It happened at Columbia University on the late 40's. The language was Russian, the student was Robert Austerlitz, the teacher was Jakobson, and what he said was "Try to understand!" Watkins did indeed take a class conducted in Russian from my father at a Linguistic Institute in Bloomington, Indiana, but at the time he did understand Russian. What is surprising is that Austerlitz, who was fluent in 13 languages, from Finnish to Gilyak, did not know Russian... As Jean-Luc Chevillard said: The more languages one knows, the better. Paul On Mar 5, 2009, at 3:42 PM, Allen W Thrasher wrote: > Thanks, Paul. I'm virtually certain I heard it as Polish, which as > I was explaining to Bob Goldman, made the story even better. Maybe > it got transformed before it got to me, rather than by me. > > Allen > >>>> Paul Kiparsky 3/5/2009 6:35 PM >>> > >> >> There was another one I heard about Roman Jacobson. When he first >> came to the U.S., his English was insufficient for lecturing, so in >> his first class he said, "Does everyone here know Polish?" One shy >> student at the back timidly raised her hand saying she didn't. He >> leaned over the podium, spread out his hands, and said, "Vell, TRY." >> >> Si non e vero, e bien trovato. >> > > It was my father, Valentin Kiparsky, not Roman Jakobson. The > occasion was the 1952 Linguistic Institute at Bloomington, Indiana. > The language was Russian, not Polish. And the student was male. > > ...ben cambiato, anyway. > > Paul From fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU Thu Mar 12 16:41:45 2009 From: fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU (FRITS STAAL) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 09 09:41:45 -0700 Subject: IASS e-mail newsletter In-Reply-To: <20090312153529.sgmc58kbkk8kgcso@www.staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <161227085320.23782.13155485316918891672.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1288 Lines: 48 Dear Professor Brockinton, Could you please send me more information (by email or airmail to my below address) about the IAAS with which I lost contact long ago . 67/1 Ban Pong, Hang Dong Chiang Mai THAILAND 50230 with many thanks and best wishes, > Dear Colleagues, > > Earlier today I sent an e-mail message to all members of the > International Association of Sanskrit Studies announcing the > establishment of a new newsletter (to be distributed solely by e-mail) > and inviting contributions from members. If you are a member of the > IASS and have not received that message (there are some members for > whom we do not have e-mail addresses and others whose addresses are > out of date), please contact me so that I can include you on the > mailing list. If you want to renew your subscription or would like to > join the IASS as a personal member, please contact the Treasurer, > Professor Bruno Dagens. > > Yours > > John Brockington > > > Professor J. L. Brockington > Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies > Asian Studies > 7-8 Buccleuch Place > Edinburgh EH8 9LW > > > -- > The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in > Scotland, with registration number SC005336. > Frits Staal http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/staal From J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK Thu Mar 12 15:35:29 2009 From: J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK (J L Brockington) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 09 15:35:29 +0000 Subject: IASS e-mail newsletter Message-ID: <161227085316.23782.8961290968879895592.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 950 Lines: 31 Dear Colleagues, Earlier today I sent an e-mail message to all members of the International Association of Sanskrit Studies announcing the establishment of a new newsletter (to be distributed solely by e-mail) and inviting contributions from members. If you are a member of the IASS and have not received that message (there are some members for whom we do not have e-mail addresses and others whose addresses are out of date), please contact me so that I can include you on the mailing list. If you want to renew your subscription or would like to join the IASS as a personal member, please contact the Treasurer, Professor Bruno Dagens. Yours John Brockington Professor J. L. Brockington Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies Asian Studies 7-8 Buccleuch Place Edinburgh EH8 9LW -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. From H.T.Bakker at RUG.NL Fri Mar 13 12:45:13 2009 From: H.T.Bakker at RUG.NL (Hans T Bakker) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 09 13:45:13 +0100 Subject: new publication (Arlo Griffiths) Message-ID: <161227085323.23782.3203335388730019776.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 615 Lines: 29 Mitraani, It is my pleasure to announce that, Arlo Griffiths, /The Paipaladasamhita of the Atharvaveda, Kandas 6 and 7. A new Edition with Translation and Commentary/, has come out. The book has appeared as volume 22 of the /Groningen Oriental Studies. /ISBN: 978-906980-777-5. The book is published by Egbert Forsten, Groningen and may be ordered through the following website: http://www.forsten.nl/ -- Prof Dr Hans T. Bakker Institute of Indian Studies University of Groningen Oude Boteringestraat 23 9712 GC Groningen the Netherlands tel: +31.(0)50.363.5819 fax: +31.(0)50.363.7263 www.rug.nl/india From conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Fri Mar 13 22:56:04 2009 From: conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Frank Conlon) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 09 15:56:04 -0700 Subject: H-ASIA: Carol Goldberg Salomon (1948-2009) Message-ID: <161227085330.23782.7394904309433336624.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2591 Lines: 63 H-ASIA March 13, 2009 Carol Goldberg Salomon (July 28, 1948-March 13, 2009) ************************************************************************ >?From Frank Conlon It is my very sad duty to report the death this morning, March 13, 2009, of Carol Goldberg Salomon of the Department of Asian Languages and Literature of the University of Washington. Carol had been injured severely in a bicycle-automobile collision on March 11. She is survived by her husband, Professor Richard Salomon, also of the University of Washington and their son Jesse. A private funeral service is planned. Dr. Salomon was a world-renowned specialist in the language, literature, and culture of Bengal. At the time of her death she held the position of Senior Lecturer in Bengali. Carol Salomon was a wonderful colleague who supported her students and colleagues with intellectual and emotional support. A graduate of City College of New York (1970), she completed her PhD at the University of Pennsylvania in Bengali Language and Literature in 1983. Her special emphasis had been on the cultural synthesis of Bangla culture as represented in the traditions of the Bauls. Among her publications were: Studies in South Asian Devotional Literature, Language, and Culture , eds. Alan Entwistle and Carol Salomon with Heidi Pauwels and Michael Shapiro. New Delhi: Manohar, 1999. "The Bauls" in Religions in India in Practice , ed. Donald S. Lopez, Jr. Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1995, pp. 187-208. "The Cosmogonic Riddles of Lalan Fakir," in Gender, Genre and Power in South Asian Expressive Traditions , ed. Arjun Appadurai, Frank Korom, and Margaret Mills. Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press, 1991, pp. 267-304. At the time of her passing she was working on a "City of Mirrors: An Edition and Annotated Translation of Selected Songs by Lalan Fakir" The sudden and unexpected loss of this brilliant colleague has left a sense of loss more readily acknowledged than described. Frank Frank F. Conlon Professor Emeritus University of Washington Co-editor, H-ASIA ****************************************************************** To post to H-ASIA simply send your message to: For holidays or short absences send post to: with message: SET H-ASIA NOMAIL Upon return, send post with message SET H-ASIA MAIL H-ASIA WEB HOMEPAGE URL: http://h-net.msu.edu/~asia/ From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Fri Mar 13 17:03:34 2009 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 09 18:03:34 +0100 Subject: Publications available Message-ID: <161227085325.23782.3616809368443078047.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 671 Lines: 26 Dear Colleagues, Seishi Karashima has asked me to forward the information that many of the publications of the International Research Institute for Advanced Budddhology at Soka University are available online: http://iriab.soka.ac.jp/orc/Publications/BLSF/index_BLSF.html http://iriab.soka.ac.jp/orc/Publications/BPPB/index_BPPB.html http://iriab.soka.ac.jp/orc/Publications/ARIRIAB/index_ARIRIAB.html The first URL refers to the volume of Sanskrit manuscripts in the British Library, the second to the Institute's monograph series, the third to its annual journal. J Silk -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Fri Mar 13 22:49:40 2009 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (George Thompson) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 09 18:49:40 -0400 Subject: more good stories In-Reply-To: <577F54A7-D5E1-4066-9855-868DF503385E@csli.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <161227085327.23782.13146960625258812841.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2561 Lines: 56 Dear List, Regarding the good stories that have been told recently about great scholars like R. Jakobson, V. Kiparsky, R. Austerlitz and Cal Watikins, I have an anecdote that may amuse some list members. Some ten years ago I found myself giving a series of talks on Sanskrit and Indian Culture sponsored by the New Hampshire Humanities Council. By chance, one of the attendees at these talks was the granddaughter of Charles Lanman, who faithfully attended, along with her husband, the entire series of nine weekly talks. I was struck by the fact that Lanman's granddaughter, herself then perhaps in her 70's, was very pleased to know that I had been introduced to Sanskrit literature by means of her grandfather's Sanskrit Reader, but also by the fact that she herself had not seen a copy of it since childhood. Since I had several copies of Lanman's Reader in hand [I used to buy up all copies that used to appear in the Berkeley bookstores when I studied there], I gave her one as a gift. This led to an extensive discussion of Lanman's impact on early American Indology, which his granddaughter was eager to learn about. Since I was planning to give a paper at the AOS conference in Baltimore in that year, I promised to solicit stories of Lanman's career at Harvard for her. As it turns out, Cal Watkins was a great source of Harvard folklore regarding Lanman and his [literally] subterranean contacts with Henry Clarke Warren, etc., which delighted Lanman's granddaughter and her family in general [as she told me]. The point is that I think that someone should sit down with Cal Watkins and get him to record all of the Sanskritist and IE folklore that he has privy to. It would greatly enlighten us about the formative period of American Indology. Best wishes, George Thompson Paul Kiparsky wrote: > Thanks to Cal Watkins and Byron Bender I now have a more authentic > version of the story, as good as we are likely to get. It happened > at Columbia University on the late 40's. The language was Russian, > the student was Robert Austerlitz, the teacher was Jakobson, and what > he said was "Try to understand!" > Watkins did indeed take a class conducted in Russian from my father > at a Linguistic Institute in Bloomington, Indiana, but at the time he > did understand Russian. > > What is surprising is that Austerlitz, who was fluent in 13 > languages, from Finnish to Gilyak, did not know Russian... > > As Jean-Luc Chevillard said: The more languages one knows, the better. > > Paul > From rmanring at INDIANA.EDU Sat Mar 14 02:22:51 2009 From: rmanring at INDIANA.EDU (Manring, Rebecca) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 09 22:22:51 -0400 Subject: H-ASIA: Carol Goldberg Salomon (1948-2009) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085332.23782.6501515516064985425.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3836 Lines: 78 I just heard this horrible, unbelievable news here in Albuquerque at the AOS reception. Carol was my adiguru. She taught me Bengali for four years, privately, for the ridiculous sum of $8/hour, back in the eighties. But it was enough to qualify me for an AIIS advanced language fellowship, and the rest as they say is history. I have very fond memories of riding my bike over to the Salomon's house in Seattle three nights a week for so long, dodging Jesse and Rich playing football in the living room, and heading for her study to work for an hour. Like most of us I was blessed with wonderful teachers at every turn, but she was the first, without whom I would probably not have proceeded in the directions I eventually did. This is a tremendous loss for all of us; Carol taught an awful lot of us Bangla. And my thoughts and prayers are with Richard and Jesse in this horrible time. Rebecca J. Manring Associate Professor India Studies and Religious Studies Indiana University-Bloomington ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Frank Conlon [conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU] Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:56 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: H-ASIA: Carol Goldberg Salomon (1948-2009) H-ASIA March 13, 2009 Carol Goldberg Salomon (July 28, 1948-March 13, 2009) ************************************************************************ >?From Frank Conlon It is my very sad duty to report the death this morning, March 13, 2009, of Carol Goldberg Salomon of the Department of Asian Languages and Literature of the University of Washington. Carol had been injured severely in a bicycle-automobile collision on March 11. She is survived by her husband, Professor Richard Salomon, also of the University of Washington and their son Jesse. A private funeral service is planned. Dr. Salomon was a world-renowned specialist in the language, literature, and culture of Bengal. At the time of her death she held the position of Senior Lecturer in Bengali. Carol Salomon was a wonderful colleague who supported her students and colleagues with intellectual and emotional support. A graduate of City College of New York (1970), she completed her PhD at the University of Pennsylvania in Bengali Language and Literature in 1983. Her special emphasis had been on the cultural synthesis of Bangla culture as represented in the traditions of the Bauls. Among her publications were: Studies in South Asian Devotional Literature, Language, and Culture , eds. Alan Entwistle and Carol Salomon with Heidi Pauwels and Michael Shapiro. New Delhi: Manohar, 1999. "The Bauls" in Religions in India in Practice , ed. Donald S. Lopez, Jr. Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1995, pp. 187-208. "The Cosmogonic Riddles of Lalan Fakir," in Gender, Genre and Power in South Asian Expressive Traditions , ed. Arjun Appadurai, Frank Korom, and Margaret Mills. Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press, 1991, pp. 267-304. At the time of her passing she was working on a "City of Mirrors: An Edition and Annotated Translation of Selected Songs by Lalan Fakir" The sudden and unexpected loss of this brilliant colleague has left a sense of loss more readily acknowledged than described. Frank Frank F. Conlon Professor Emeritus University of Washington Co-editor, H-ASIA ****************************************************************** To post to H-ASIA simply send your message to: For holidays or short absences send post to: with message: SET H-ASIA NOMAIL Upon return, send post with message SET H-ASIA MAIL H-ASIA WEB HOMEPAGE URL: http://h-net.msu.edu/~asia/ From franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Sat Mar 14 22:47:33 2009 From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE (franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 09 23:47:33 +0100 Subject: No longer Language barriers --- financial barriers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085336.23782.5888875033536823827.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3507 Lines: 89 I guess I was wrong; unfortunately, not everybody had enough of this. So here we go for one more round, hopefully the last. I apologize for responding a bit late; I was busy during the last few days. Dr. Gruenendahl is right. Two times are not enough to establish a pattern. Perhaps next time he will side with me against a point made by Prof. Slaje, but I somehow doubt it. What I object to, of course, is not the fact that he takes sides in a discussion, but to his aggressive manner, malicious distortion of what I said, his use of ad hominem arguments, and cheap psychological analysis of the type ?Franco writes because he wants to draw attention to himself, undeserved attention.? In the same vein I could say, e.g., ?Gruenendahl?s offensiveness is only due to some personal frustration, deserved frustration.? However, I do not want to regress to Kindergarten level. Some of you have voiced the concern that the list has become a place for personal and private battles. I can assure you that there was absolutely nothing personal in my remark about the Glasenapp Foundation. Furthermore, Dr. Gruenendahl and I do not know each other; at least I do not remember ever meeting him. Further, I do not think that Dr. Gruenendahl *purposefully* distorts what I said, but that his vision is blurred by some agenda. The same kind of distortion, at times even spiteful criticism he displays in some of his published work, notably in his attempt to exonerate German Indology from the charge of having been affiliated with National Socialism. There was a discussion about this last year on the list. With best wishes, Eli Franco Quoting "Gruenendahl, Reinhold" : > On 9 Mar 2009 at 21:09, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE wrote: > >> I will try to refresh Dr. Gruenendahl's memory off the list. I am sure > >> everybody had enough of this by now. > > > > Apologies to everybody who has had enough of this. > > I thank Professor Franco for his kind assistance in refreshing my memory. As > I see it, the significance of the case he referred to offline lies not so > much in my agreement with Walter Slaje (actually I had endorsed his > forwarding of third-party information), but in my perceived disagreement with > Professor Franco, who was not altogether disinterested in the case and its > decision before a German court. I understand that this is the reason why he > would rather not discuss it in public. > > So we still are where we were yesterday: I would have to consider Professor > Franco's remark a mere fabrication unless he comes up with evidence that is > presentable to the public, preferably a case in which he had no personal > interest, if that isn't asking too much. It goes without saying that at least > one more example would be needed to get anywhere near the "whenever"-pattern > insinuated in his remark. > > Talking about patterns, there is another one that seems all too familiar: "I > have made my point, and now that I have been asked to prove it I am sure > everyone had enough of it." > > Reinhold Gr?nendahl > > ***************************************** > > On 9 Mar 2009 at 17:15, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE wrote: > >> It is touching to see how whenever Prof. Slaje is involved in a debate > >> Dr. Gruenendahl comes to his rescue. > >> Best wishes > >> EF > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Sun Mar 15 09:10:06 2009 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 09 10:10:06 +0100 Subject: AW: No longer Language barriers --- financial barriers Message-ID: <161227085339.23782.5619458124750216257.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3999 Lines: 116 Since Professor Franco indicated that he was too busy for proving his earlier claims it would indeed be too much to ask him to substantiate his latest charges. [A pedantic correction: We met in Berlin on one or two occasions, and I remember them as rather pleasant.] Reinhold Gr?nendahl ________________________________ Von: Indology im Auftrag von franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Gesendet: Sa 14.03.2009 23:47 An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Betreff: No longer Language barriers --- financial barriers I guess I was wrong; unfortunately, not everybody had enough of this. So here we go for one more round, hopefully the last. I apologize for responding a bit late; I was busy during the last few days. Dr. Gruenendahl is right. Two times are not enough to establish a pattern. Perhaps next time he will side with me against a point made by Prof. Slaje, but I somehow doubt it. What I object to, of course, is not the fact that he takes sides in a discussion, but to his aggressive manner, malicious distortion of what I said, his use of ad hominem arguments, and cheap psychological analysis of the type ?Franco writes because he wants to draw attention to himself, undeserved attention.? In the same vein I could say, e.g., ?Gruenendahl?s offensiveness is only due to some personal frustration, deserved frustration.? However, I do not want to regress to Kindergarten level. Some of you have voiced the concern that the list has become a place for personal and private battles. I can assure you that there was absolutely nothing personal in my remark about the Glasenapp Foundation. Furthermore, Dr. Gruenendahl and I do not know each other; at least I do not remember ever meeting him. Further, I do not think that Dr. Gruenendahl *purposefully* distorts what I said, but that his vision is blurred by some agenda. The same kind of distortion, at times even spiteful criticism he displays in some of his published work, notably in his attempt to exonerate German Indology from the charge of having been affiliated with National Socialism. There was a discussion about this last year on the list. With best wishes, Eli Franco Quoting "Gruenendahl, Reinhold" : > On 9 Mar 2009 at 21:09, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE wrote: > >> I will try to refresh Dr. Gruenendahl's memory off the list. I am sure > >> everybody had enough of this by now. > > > > Apologies to everybody who has had enough of this. > > I thank Professor Franco for his kind assistance in refreshing my memory. As > I see it, the significance of the case he referred to offline lies not so > much in my agreement with Walter Slaje (actually I had endorsed his > forwarding of third-party information), but in my perceived disagreement with > Professor Franco, who was not altogether disinterested in the case and its > decision before a German court. I understand that this is the reason why he > would rather not discuss it in public. > > So we still are where we were yesterday: I would have to consider Professor > Franco's remark a mere fabrication unless he comes up with evidence that is > presentable to the public, preferably a case in which he had no personal > interest, if that isn't asking too much. It goes without saying that at least > one more example would be needed to get anywhere near the "whenever"-pattern > insinuated in his remark. > > Talking about patterns, there is another one that seems all too familiar: "I > have made my point, and now that I have been asked to prove it I am sure > everyone had enough of it." > > Reinhold Gr?nendahl > > ***************************************** > > On 9 Mar 2009 at 17:15, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE wrote: > >> It is touching to see how whenever Prof. Slaje is involved in a debate > >> Dr. Gruenendahl comes to his rescue. > >> Best wishes > >> EF > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU Mon Mar 16 10:01:09 2009 From: fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU (FRITS STAAL) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 09 03:01:09 -0700 Subject: time to change the tune In-Reply-To: <20090316031204.BUC75839@m4500-02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227085352.23782.5666501096723688397.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 704 Lines: 33 I APPLAUD! > I find the use of the Indology list > by our colleagues in Germany to be > tiresome in the extreme and not > to accord very well with the purposes > for which Indology was established. > > If this continues much longer, I, for > one, will withdraw my name from the subscription list. > > Perhaps a separate listserve dedicated to > settling scores in Germany should be contemplated, > so that those interested in this will have > their own playpen. > > > Matthew T. Kapstein > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies > The University of Chicago Divinity School > > Directeur d'?tudes > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > Frits Staal http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/staal From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Mar 16 08:12:04 2009 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 09 03:12:04 -0500 Subject: time to change the tune Message-ID: <161227085348.23782.10623568738413940486.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 602 Lines: 24 I find the use of the Indology list by our colleagues in Germany to be tiresome in the extreme and not to accord very well with the purposes for which Indology was established. If this continues much longer, I, for one, will withdraw my name from the subscription list. Perhaps a separate listserve dedicated to settling scores in Germany should be contemplated, so that those interested in this will have their own playpen. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Mon Mar 16 02:50:56 2009 From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE (franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 09 03:50:56 +0100 Subject: Gruenendahl, German Indology and National Socialism (Was: No longer Language barriers --- financial barriers) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085342.23782.3981491290964230792.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 16245 Lines: 335 Quoting "Gruenendahl, Reinhold" : > Since Professor Franco indicated that he was too busy for proving his earlier > claims it would indeed be too much to ask him to substantiate his latest > charges. Even this very statement is a distortion or ?fabrication.? I never said or indicated that I am too busy to prove my claims. Dr. Gruenendahl asked for one example (?may I ask you to give one example??) and I gave him one example. He may not like the example, he may think that the example is no good, but he cannot (or should not) claim that I did not take the time to write to him. Further, I tried to take this discussion off the list, honestly thinking that ?everybody had enough of this.? But Gruenendahl knows better. The real reason why I do not want to discuss it on the list, he claims, is that I do not want to discuss the example in public (?I understand that this is the reason why he would rather not discuss it in public.?). Basically he accuses me of being dishonest. But this accusation is plainly absurd. We already discussed this example in public, and Gruenendahl knows it because he himself participated in the discussion. If anyone is interested, they can find the discussion in the archive of the German Indologie discussion group. Evidence for ad hominem argument and cheap psychological analysis was already given in the last message, but if it needs to be ?proved?, I quote: ?I cannot see who expects to gain from this, except in terms of attention - undeserved attention, in my view.? It is clear from the context that this statement refers to me. The most significant point, however, which should have a broader appeal, is Dr. Gruenendahl?s attempt to exonerate German Indology from its affiliation with National Socialism. I think the issue is important and want to discuss it in some detail, without, however, being exhaustive. The publication in question is Gruenendahl?s contribution to Gustav Roth?s Felicitation Volume, entitled ?Von der Indologie zum V?lkermord,? In U. H?sken, P. Kieffer-P?lz and A. Peters [eds.], Jaina-Itih?sa-Ratna. Festschrift f?r Gustav Roth zum 90. Geburtstag. Marburg 2006, pp. 209-236. Already when I first read it, I was dismayed not only by Gruenendahl?s occasionally spiteful criticism of Sheldon Pollock, but also by the way Gruenendahl misunderstands and misrepresents his sources, especially in his attempt to exonerate Frauwallner from the charge, made by Pollock, of having been affiliated with National Socialist ideology. Gruenendahl (p. 217) argues (and this is typical for his emotional style) that one would thoroughly misunderstand Pollock?s intentions if one would drag them down to the level of facts, which are a negligible quantity in the age of ?polyvalent? discourse. He states that Pollock does not use facts to determine reality, but resorts to strategic choices and interpretations of the materials to draw maximum attention to himself (!). Had I tried, I could not have found a better way to describe Gruenendahl?s own approach to the topic. I will illustrate the above with ?facts.? But let me first note Gruenendahl?s remarkable lack of sensitivity to the historical and political context. A racist or racialist statement made in Germany in 1939 or 1942 cannot be divorced from this context, and to argue, as Gruenendahl does (e.g., p. 232 and passim), that similar statements were already made by racists of previous generations (such as Gobineau, Renan, etc.) and that it is therefore not evident that these ideas (as expressed e.g., by Frauwallner in 1944) are associated with National Socialist ideology, is not only na?ve, but preposterous. Here are a few examples of how Gruenendahl twists his source material. Frauwallner (in 1944) approvingly quotes von Soden to the effect that only the Indo-Europeans, which are determined by the Nordic race, are capable of creating science properly speaking and states that ?on the basis of our investigations up to now we cannot but agree with this statement? (? ?da? Wis?sen?schaft im strengen Sinn des Wortes etwas ist, das nur von den von der nordischen Rasse bestimmten Indogermanen geschaffen werden konnte? (S. 556). Wir k?nnen dieser Behauptung auf Grund unserer bisherigen Betrachtungen nur beistimmen.?). Gruenendahl (p. 232) interprets this statement to mean that Frauwallner at least signalized some reserve in his endorsement of von Soden?s statement (?? einen Vorbehalt zumindest angedeutet?). This interpretation of a stereotypical expression (?auf Grund unserer bisherigen Betrachtungen?) is simply tendentious and farfetched. There is certainly nothing in this context to support it. Frauwallner?s confident perception of himself as a true pioneer of solid philological research into the history of Indian philosophy is misinterpreted by Gruenendahl (p. 231) to mean that Frauwallner stated that the relevant direction of Indological research (i.e., research that is programmatically determined by the aspect of race) was in its beginning?an unsuccessful attempt by Gruenendahl to show, on the alleged authority of Frauwallner himself, that Indologists up to this time had not yet followed this line of research. Furthermore, in his polemical zeal Gruenendahl misre?presents Frauwallner?s hypothesis of two distinct, racially conditioned historical phases of Indian philosophy and inverts Frauwallner?s judgement about the second period: he presents Frauwallner?s reference to the peak (occurring in the first half of the second millennium) of the development of Indian philosophy in its *second*, clearly inferior phase as the view that ?the mingling of the two races? was fruitful and even led to a new peak of its own kind of Indian philosophy (p. 229)! Gruenendahl seems to ignore that Frauwallner repeated his racist interpretation of Indian philosophy even after the war (and without any reservations) in his ?History of Indian Philosophy,? Vol. I, pp. 26-27. In this context, Frauwallner?s usage of the typical Nazi term ?Volksk?rper? (nation?s body) has to be noted. As is well known, the National Socialists thought of the German nation as a body to be kept healthy, clean and free from disease, obnoxious influences and parasites (such as minorities belonging to so-called inferior races). The same racist historical interpretation is repeated as late as 1959 in Frauwallner?s article ?Indische Philosophie.? This time at least he adds that a definitive statement about this, i.e., the racial background of the two developmental phases of Indian philosophy, seems ?premature? (verfr?ht). That Frauwallner was an anti-Semite is certainly not an unfounded inference by Pollock (as Gruenendahl claims on p. 233), but a well attested fact. Even though there are no direct anti-Semitic statements in Frauwallner?s writings, there are other sources that testify clearly to his anti-Semitism well after WW II (cf., for instance, the sources utilized by Jakob Stuchlik?s dissertation submitted to the University of Vienna in 2005 and his forthcoming monograph on the background of Frauwallner?s ?Aryan hypothesis? to be published by the Austrian Academy of Sciences). It is arbitrary and unacceptable to form a judgement on the basis of published Indological studies alone. Gruenendahl points out some differences between Frauwallner?s statements and those of Chamberlain (p. 228) and the agreement of the former with Gobineau?s positions (p. 229), but fails to indicate Frauwallner?s more immediate sources of inspiration. One such source is the renowned Vedic and Bud?dhist scholar Hermann Oldenberg, whom Frauwallner admired; some of the former?s statements seem to have been of direct inspiration to him. I will quote from this source below because I believe that it is not well known and interesting reading (Die Literatur des alten Indien, pp. 132-133). More details on the relationship between Frauwallner?s work on the history of Indian philosophy and his National Socialist ideology are available in a preface by Karin Preisendanz and myself to a forthcoming reprint of Frauwallner?s Philosophie des Buddhismus. As for Gruenendahl?s confident statement that there is evidently no ideological consensus between Walther W?st and Ludwig Alsdorf (p. 213), and his denial that racist ideology did not at all affect Alsdorf?s scholarly work (p. 225), compare the first chapter of Alsdorf?s ?Indien? in the Weltpolitische B?cherei (supervised by Alfred Rosenberg himself), second edition, Deutscher Verlag Berlin, 1942, especially pp. 12-13. To be sure, Pollock?s statements and hypotheses are at times daring and sweeping, but they constitute the beginning of the exploration of this phase of the history of our discipline, all the more so as, more than sixty years after WWII, no German Indologist has attempted to undertake the task of coming to terms with Indology during this dark period of German history. In this sense, Gruenendahl?s announced monograph will be very welcome indeed. One only hopes that it will be less biased than his paper referred to above. With best wishes, Eli Franco P.S. For Prof. Slaje?s eloquent praise of Gruenendahl?s work and method, cf. his message to the list dated January 9, 2007. H. Oldenberg, Die Literatur des alten Indien, 2nd ed., Stuttgart 1923, pp. 132-133: ?Above all there were probably influences [by the indi?genous people of India] that worked in a very pro?found way which we can only surmise: through the gradually progressing transformation of the blood, which means a transformation of the Soul, through the constant influx of new quantities of the blood of savages and semi-savages into the veins of those who still called themselves Aryans. Zeus and Apollo continued to rule as long as there were Greek gods because the Greek nation remained the same. Indra and Agni had to leave the field to other gods because the Indian nation had become a different one. For these minds, in which an inscrutable jumble of anta?gonistic powers, intertwined with each other, unleashed at each other, was at work, the Vedic gods were much too guile?lessly simple; their being was all too easily exhausted. They had come from the North: now tropical gods were needed. These were hardly of fixed shapes any longer; they were whole tangles of shapes, bodies from which oozed heads upon heads, arms upon arms, multi?tudes of hands holding multitudes of attributes, clubs and lotus flowers: voluptuous, sombre and grandiose poetry every?where, exuberance and blurred shapelessness: a terrible disaster for the fine arts? (?Vor allem werden jene Ein?fl?sse (scil. der Urbewohner Indiens) in einer tiefsten Weise gewirkt haben, die wir nur ahnen k?nnen: durch die allm?hlich fortschreitende Wandlung des Blutes, die eine Wandlung der Seele bedeutet, durch das be?st?ndige Ein?str?men neuer Mengen von Wilden- und Halb?wil?den?blut in die Adern derer, die sich noch immer Arier nann?ten. Zeus und Apollon haben ihre Herrschaft be?halten, solange es griechische G?tter gab, denn das Grie?chenvolk blieb dasselbe. Indra und Agni mussten andern G?ttern das Feld r?umen, denn das indische Volk war ein andres ge?worden. F?r diese Geister, in denen un?er?gr?ndliche Mischungen widerstreitender Kr?fte, mit?einander ver?schlungen, gegeneinander entfesselt, ihr Spiel trieben, waren die Vedag?tter allzu kindlich einfach; gar zu leicht war ihr Wesen ausgesch?pft. Sie waren von Norden ge?kommen: jetzt brauchte man tropische G?tter. Es waren kaum mehr feste Gestalten; es waren ganze Gestal?ten?kn?uel, K?rper, aus denen K?pfe ?ber K?pfe, Arme ?ber Arme hervor?quollen, Mengen von H?nden, die Mengen von Attributen, Keulen und Lotusblumen halten: ?berall ?ppige und d?stere, grandiose Poesie, ?berf?lle und ver?schwommene Formlosigkeit: Ein b?ses Verh?ngnis f?r die bildende Kunst.?) > [A pedantic correction: We met in Berlin on one or two occasions, and I > remember them as rather pleasant.] > > > > Reinhold Gr?nendahl > > > > ________________________________ > > Von: Indology im Auftrag von franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE > Gesendet: Sa 14.03.2009 23:47 > An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Betreff: No longer Language barriers --- financial barriers > > > > I guess I was wrong; unfortunately, not everybody had enough of this. > So here we go for one more round, hopefully the last. I apologize for > responding a bit late; I was busy during the last few days. > > Dr. Gruenendahl is right. Two times are not enough to establish a > pattern. Perhaps next time he will side with me against a point made > by Prof. Slaje, but I somehow doubt it. > > What I object to, of course, is not the fact that he takes sides in a > discussion, but to his aggressive manner, malicious distortion of what > I said, his use of ad hominem arguments, and cheap psychological > analysis of the type ?Franco writes because he wants to draw attention > to himself, undeserved attention.? In the same vein I could say, e.g., > ?Gruenendahl?s offensiveness is only due to some personal frustration, > deserved frustration.? However, I do not want to regress to > Kindergarten level. > > Some of you have voiced the concern that the list has become a place > for personal and private battles. I can assure you that there was > absolutely nothing personal in my remark about the Glasenapp > Foundation. Furthermore, Dr. Gruenendahl and I do not know each other; > at least I do not remember ever meeting him. > > Further, I do not think that Dr. Gruenendahl *purposefully* distorts > what I said, but that his vision is blurred by some agenda. The same > kind of distortion, at times even spiteful criticism he displays in > some of his published work, notably in his attempt to exonerate German > Indology from the charge of having been affiliated with National > Socialism. There was a discussion about this last year on the list. > > With best wishes, > Eli Franco > > Quoting "Gruenendahl, Reinhold" : > >> On 9 Mar 2009 at 21:09, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE wrote: >> >>> I will try to refresh Dr. Gruenendahl's memory off the list. I am sure >> >>> everybody had enough of this by now. >> >> >> >> Apologies to everybody who has had enough of this. >> >> I thank Professor Franco for his kind assistance in refreshing my memory. > As >> I see it, the significance of the case he referred to offline lies not so >> much in my agreement with Walter Slaje (actually I had endorsed his >> forwarding of third-party information), but in my perceived disagreement > with >> Professor Franco, who was not altogether disinterested in the case and its >> decision before a German court. I understand that this is the reason why he >> would rather not discuss it in public. >> >> So we still are where we were yesterday: I would have to consider Professor >> Franco's remark a mere fabrication unless he comes up with evidence that is >> presentable to the public, preferably a case in which he had no personal >> interest, if that isn't asking too much. It goes without saying that at > least >> one more example would be needed to get anywhere near the > "whenever"-pattern >> insinuated in his remark. >> >> Talking about patterns, there is another one that seems all too familiar: > "I >> have made my point, and now that I have been asked to prove it I am sure >> everyone had enough of it." >> >> Reinhold Gr?nendahl >> >> ***************************************** >> >> On 9 Mar 2009 at 17:15, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE wrote: >> >>> It is touching to see how whenever Prof. Slaje is involved in a debate >> >>> Dr. Gruenendahl comes to his rescue. >> >>> Best wishes >> >>> EF >> >> >> >> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA Mon Mar 16 10:15:11 2009 From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 09 06:15:11 -0400 Subject: time to change the tune In-Reply-To: <20090316031204.BUC75839@m4500-02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227085355.23782.17300319896643800805.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 779 Lines: 35 I agree! alaM vipriyeNa vivAdena! -- Stella Sandahl ssandahl at sympatico.ca On 16-Mar-09, at 4:12 AM, mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU wrote: > I find the use of the Indology list > by our colleagues in Germany to be > tiresome in the extreme and not > to accord very well with the purposes > for which Indology was established. > > If this continues much longer, I, for > one, will withdraw my name from the subscription list. > > Perhaps a separate listserve dedicated to > settling scores in Germany should be contemplated, > so that those interested in this will have > their own playpen. > > > Matthew T. Kapstein > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies > The University of Chicago Divinity School > > Directeur d'?tudes > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA Mon Mar 16 10:31:51 2009 From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 09 06:31:51 -0400 Subject: MBh. 2.54.22 Message-ID: <161227085358.23782.17017061433339489150.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 695 Lines: 24 MBh. 22.54.22 says: azvAMs tittiri-kalmASAn gandharvAn ... dadau CitrarathaH... It seems to be that tittiri, kalmASa and gandharva could refer to different breeds/kinds of horses. Renou understood it that way (Anthologie sanscrite), but he gives no reference to support this. Nakula's AzvaZAstra (Thanjavur Sarasvati Mahal Series No. 56) has no reference to breeds of horses either as far as I can discover. So where can one find a clarification? Many thanks! Stella Sandahl -- Professor Stella Sandahl Department of East Asian Studies 130 St. George St. room 14087 Toronto, ON M5S 3H1 ssandahl at sympatico.ca stella.sandahl at utoronto.ca Tel. (416) 978-4295 Fax. (416) 978-5711 From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Mon Mar 16 03:18:34 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 09 08:48:34 +0530 Subject: Gruenendahl, German Indology and National Socialism (Was: No longer Language barriers --- financial barriers) Message-ID: <161227085345.23782.637631609909866336.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 16753 Lines: 200 Perhaps, I read somewhere that H.Oldenberg was Jew. It has remained a mystery to me that he could still be?an Aryanist in the bad sense of the term? The forces at play in pre-Nazi Europe and the odd equations reached thereby are of course not well-known?to me. Or the information was incorrect? DB --- On Mon, 16/3/09, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE wrote: From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Subject: Gruenendahl, German Indology and National Socialism (Was: No longer Language barriers --- financial barriers) To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 16 March, 2009, 8:20 AM -----Inline Attachment Follows----- Quoting "Gruenendahl, Reinhold" : > Since Professor Franco indicated that he was too busy for proving his earlier > claims it would indeed be too much to ask him to substantiate his latest > charges. Even this very statement is a distortion or ?fabrication.? I never said or indicated that I am too busy to prove my claims. Dr. Gruenendahl asked for one example (?may I ask you to give one example??) and I gave him one example. He may not like the example, he may think that the example is no good, but he cannot (or should not) claim that I did not take the time to write to him. Further, I tried to take this discussion off the list, honestly thinking that ?everybody had enough of this.? But Gruenendahl knows better. The real reason why I do not want to discuss it on the list, he claims, is that I do not want to discuss the example in public (?I understand that this is the reason why he would rather not discuss it in public.?). Basically he accuses me of being dishonest. But this accusation is plainly absurd. We already discussed this example in public, and Gruenendahl knows it because he himself participated in the discussion. If anyone is interested, they can find the discussion in the archive of the German Indologie discussion group. Evidence for ad hominem argument and cheap psychological analysis was already given in the last message, but if it needs to be ?proved?, I quote: ?I cannot see who expects to gain from this, except in terms of attention - undeserved attention, in my view.?? It is clear from the context that this statement refers to me. The most? significant point, however, which should have a broader appeal, is Dr. Gruenendahl?s attempt to exonerate German Indology from its affiliation with National Socialism. I think the issue is important and want to discuss it in some detail, without, however, being exhaustive. The publication in question is Gruenendahl?s contribution to Gustav Roth?s Felicitation Volume, entitled ?Von der Indologie zum V?lkermord,? In U. H?sken, P. Kieffer-P?lz and A. Peters [eds.], Jaina-Itih?sa-Ratna. Festschrift f?r Gustav Roth zum 90. Geburtstag. Marburg 2006, pp. 209-236. Already when I first read it, I was dismayed not only by Gruenendahl?s occasionally spiteful criticism of Sheldon Pollock, but also by the way Gruenendahl misunderstands and misrepresents his sources, especially in his attempt to exonerate Frauwallner from the charge, made by Pollock, of having been affiliated with National Socialist ideology. Gruenendahl (p. 217) argues (and this is typical for his emotional style) that one would thoroughly misunderstand Pollock?s intentions if one would drag them down to the level of facts, which are a negligible quantity in the age of ?polyvalent? discourse. He states that Pollock does not use facts to determine reality, but resorts to strategic choices and interpretations of the materials to draw maximum attention to himself (!). Had I tried, I could not have found a better way to describe Gruenendahl?s own approach to the topic. I will illustrate the above with ?facts.? But let me first note Gruenendahl?s remarkable lack of sensitivity to the historical and political context. A racist or racialist statement made in Germany in 1939 or 1942 cannot be divorced from this context, and to argue, as Gruenendahl does (e.g., p. 232 and passim), that similar statements were already made by racists of previous generations (such as Gobineau, Renan, etc.) and that it is therefore not evident that these ideas (as expressed e.g., by Frauwallner in 1944) are associated with National Socialist ideology, is not only na?ve, but preposterous. Here are a few examples of how Gruenendahl twists his source material. Frauwallner (in 1944) approvingly quotes von Soden to the effect that only the Indo-Europeans, which are determined by the Nordic race, are capable of creating science properly speaking and states that ?on the basis of our investigations up to now we cannot but agree with this statement? (? ?da? Wis?sen?schaft im strengen Sinn des Wortes etwas ist, das nur von den von der nordischen Rasse bestimmten Indogermanen geschaffen werden konnte? (S. 556). Wir k?nnen dieser Behauptung auf Grund unserer bisherigen Betrachtungen nur beistimmen.?). Gruenendahl (p. 232) interprets this statement to mean that Frauwallner at least signalized some reserve in his endorsement of von Soden?s statement (?? einen Vorbehalt zumindest angedeutet?). This interpretation of a stereotypical expression (?auf Grund unserer bisherigen Betrachtungen?) is simply tendentious and farfetched. There is certainly nothing in this context to support it. Frauwallner?s confident perception of himself as a true pioneer of solid philological research into the history of Indian philosophy is misinterpreted by Gruenendahl (p. 231) to mean that Frauwallner stated that the relevant direction of Indological research (i.e., research that is programmatically determined by the aspect of race) was in its beginning?an unsuccessful attempt by Gruenendahl to show, on the alleged authority of Frauwallner himself, that Indologists up to this time had not yet followed this line of research. Furthermore, in his polemical zeal Gruenendahl misre?presents Frauwallner?s hypothesis of two distinct, racially conditioned historical phases of Indian philosophy and inverts Frauwallner?s judgement about the second period: he presents Frauwallner?s reference to the peak (occurring in the first half of the second millennium) of the development of Indian philosophy in its *second*, clearly inferior phase as the view that ?the mingling of the two races? was fruitful and even led to a new peak of its own kind of Indian philosophy (p. 229)! Gruenendahl seems to ignore that Frauwallner repeated his racist interpretation of Indian philosophy even after the war (and without any reservations) in his ?History of Indian Philosophy,? Vol. I, pp. 26-27. In this context, Frauwallner?s usage of the typical Nazi term ?Volksk?rper? (nation?s body) has to be noted. As is well known, the National Socialists thought of the German nation as a body to be kept healthy, clean and free from disease, obnoxious influences and parasites (such as minorities belonging to so-called inferior races). The same racist historical interpretation is repeated as late as 1959 in Frauwallner?s article ?Indische Philosophie.? This time at least he adds that a definitive statement about this, i.e., the racial background of the two developmental phases of Indian philosophy, seems ?premature? (verfr?ht). That Frauwallner was an anti-Semite is certainly not an unfounded inference by Pollock (as Gruenendahl claims on p. 233), but a well attested fact. Even though there are no direct anti-Semitic statements in Frauwallner?s writings, there are other sources that testify clearly to his anti-Semitism well after WW II (cf., for instance, the sources utilized by Jakob Stuchlik?s dissertation submitted to the University of Vienna in 2005 and his forthcoming monograph on the background of Frauwallner?s ?Aryan hypothesis? to be published by the Austrian Academy of Sciences). It is arbitrary and unacceptable to form a judgement on the basis of published Indological studies alone. Gruenendahl points out some differences between Frauwallner?s statements and those of Chamberlain (p. 228) and the agreement of the former with Gobineau?s positions (p. 229), but fails to indicate Frauwallner?s more immediate sources of inspiration. One such source is the renowned Vedic and Bud?dhist scholar Hermann Oldenberg, whom Frauwallner admired; some of the former?s statements seem to have been of direct inspiration to him. I will quote from this source below because I believe that it is not well known and interesting reading (Die Literatur des alten Indien, pp. 132-133). More details on the relationship between Frauwallner?s work on the history of Indian philosophy and his National Socialist ideology are available in a preface by Karin Preisendanz and myself to a forthcoming reprint of Frauwallner?s Philosophie des Buddhismus. As for Gruenendahl?s confident statement that there is evidently no ideological consensus between Walther W?st and Ludwig Alsdorf (p. 213), and his denial that racist ideology did not at all affect Alsdorf?s scholarly work (p. 225), compare the first chapter of Alsdorf?s ?Indien? in the Weltpolitische B?cherei (supervised by Alfred Rosenberg himself), second edition, Deutscher Verlag Berlin, 1942, especially pp. 12-13. To be sure, Pollock?s statements and hypotheses are at times daring and sweeping, but they constitute the beginning of the exploration of this phase of the history of our discipline, all the more so as, more than sixty years after WWII, no German Indologist has attempted to undertake the task of coming to terms with Indology during this dark period of German history. In this sense, Gruenendahl?s announced monograph will be very welcome indeed. One only hopes that it will be less biased than his paper referred to above. With best wishes, Eli Franco P.S. For Prof.? Slaje?s eloquent praise of Gruenendahl?s work and method, cf. his message to the list dated January 9, 2007. H. Oldenberg, Die Literatur des alten Indien, 2nd ed., Stuttgart 1923, pp. 132-133: ?Above all there were probably influences [by the indi?genous people of India] that worked in a very pro?found way which we can only surmise: through the gradually progressing transformation of the blood, which means a transformation of the Soul, through the constant influx of new quantities of the blood of savages and semi-savages into the veins of those who still called themselves Aryans. Zeus and Apollo continued to rule as long as there were Greek gods because the Greek nation remained the same. Indra and Agni had to leave the field to other gods because the Indian nation had become a different one. For these minds, in which an inscrutable jumble of anta?gonistic powers, intertwined with each other, unleashed at each other, was at work, the Vedic gods were much too guile?lessly simple; their being was all too easily exhausted. They had come from the North: now tropical gods were needed. These were hardly of fixed shapes any longer; they were whole tangles of shapes, bodies from which oozed heads upon heads, arms upon arms, multi?tudes of hands holding multitudes of attributes, clubs and lotus flowers: voluptuous, sombre and grandiose poetry every?where, exuberance and blurred shapelessness: a terrible disaster for the fine arts? (?Vor allem werden jene Ein?fl?sse (scil. der Urbewohner Indiens) in einer tiefsten Weise gewirkt haben, die wir nur ahnen k?nnen: durch die allm?hlich fortschreitende Wandlung des Blutes, die eine Wandlung der Seele bedeutet, durch das be?st?ndige Ein?str?men neuer Mengen von Wilden- und Halb?wil?den?blut in die Adern derer, die sich noch immer Arier nann?ten. Zeus und Apollon haben ihre Herrschaft be?halten, solange es griechische G?tter gab, denn das Grie?chenvolk blieb dasselbe. Indra und Agni mussten andern G?ttern das Feld r?umen, denn das indische Volk war ein andres ge?worden. F?r diese Geister, in denen un?er?gr?ndliche Mischungen widerstreitender Kr?fte, mit?einander ver?schlungen, gegeneinander entfesselt, ihr Spiel trieben, waren die Vedag?tter allzu kindlich einfach; gar zu leicht war ihr Wesen ausgesch?pft. Sie waren von Norden ge?kommen: jetzt brauchte man tropische G?tter. Es waren kaum mehr feste Gestalten; es waren ganze Gestal?ten?kn?uel, K?rper, aus denen K?pfe ?ber K?pfe, Arme ?ber Arme hervor?quollen, Mengen von H?nden, die Mengen von Attributen, Keulen und Lotusblumen halten: ?berall ?ppige und d?stere, grandiose Poesie, ?berf?lle und ver?schwommene Formlosigkeit: Ein b?ses Verh?ngnis f?r die bildende Kunst.?) > [A pedantic correction: We met in Berlin on one or two occasions, and I > remember them as rather pleasant.] > > > > Reinhold Gr?nendahl > > > > ________________________________ > > Von: Indology im Auftrag von franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE > Gesendet: Sa 14.03.2009 23:47 > An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Betreff: No longer Language barriers --- financial barriers > > > > I guess I was wrong; unfortunately, not everybody had enough of this. > So here we go for one more round, hopefully the last. I apologize for > responding a bit late; I was busy during the last few days. > > Dr. Gruenendahl is right. Two times are not enough to establish a > pattern. Perhaps next time he will side with me against a point made > by Prof. Slaje, but I somehow doubt it. > > What I object to, of course, is not the fact that he takes sides in a > discussion, but to his aggressive manner, malicious distortion of what > I said, his use of ad hominem arguments, and cheap psychological > analysis of the type ?Franco writes because he wants to draw attention > to himself, undeserved attention.? In the same vein I could say, e.g., > ?Gruenendahl?s offensiveness is only due to some personal frustration, > deserved frustration.? However, I do not want to regress to > Kindergarten level. > > Some of you have voiced the concern that the list has become a place > for personal and private battles. I can assure you that there was > absolutely nothing personal in my remark about the Glasenapp > Foundation. Furthermore, Dr. Gruenendahl and I do not know each other; > at least I do not remember ever meeting him. > > Further, I do not think that Dr. Gruenendahl *purposefully* distorts > what I said, but that his vision is blurred by some agenda. The same > kind of distortion, at times even spiteful criticism he displays in > some of his published work, notably in his attempt to exonerate German > Indology from the charge of having been affiliated with National > Socialism. There was a discussion about this last year on the list. > > With best wishes, > Eli Franco > > Quoting "Gruenendahl, Reinhold" : > >> On 9 Mar 2009 at 21:09, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE wrote: >> >>> I will try to refresh Dr. Gruenendahl's memory off the list. I am sure >> >>> everybody had enough of this by now. >> >> >> >> Apologies to everybody who has had enough of this. >> >> I thank Professor Franco for his kind assistance in refreshing my memory. > As >> I see it, the significance of the case he referred to offline lies not so >> much in my agreement with Walter Slaje (actually I had endorsed his >> forwarding of third-party information), but in my perceived disagreement > with >> Professor Franco, who was not altogether disinterested in the case and its >> decision before a German court. I understand that this is the reason why he >> would rather not discuss it in public. >> >> So we still are where we were yesterday: I would have to consider Professor >> Franco's remark a mere fabrication unless he comes up with evidence that is >> presentable to the public, preferably a case in which he had no personal >> interest, if that isn't asking too much. It goes without saying that at > least >> one more example would be needed to get anywhere near the > "whenever"-pattern >> insinuated in his remark. >> >> Talking about patterns, there is another one that seems all too familiar: > "I >> have made my point, and now that I have been asked to prove it I am sure >> everyone had enough of it." >> >> Reinhold Gr?nendahl >> >> ***************************************** >> >> On 9 Mar 2009 at 17:15, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE wrote: >> >>> It is touching to see how whenever Prof. Slaje is involved in a debate >> >>> Dr. Gruenendahl comes to his rescue. >> >>> Best wishes >> >>> EF >> >> >> >> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Mon Mar 16 10:51:02 2009 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 09 10:51:02 +0000 Subject: AW: Gruenendahl, German Indology and National Socialism (Was: No longer Language barriers --- financial barriers) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085364.23782.378996404113289828.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 22845 Lines: 555 I add my name to those who politely request that this debate in this form be conducted elsewhere. The topic is of some genuine interest and relevance to the history of the field of indology, and is potentially appropriate for discussion on this list. But much ink has already been spilled, and it seems to me that at present, positions that have already been adequately articulated here and elsewhere are just being repeated. What is particularly inappropriate is the personal tone of the exchanges. This isn't necessary, and while we all enjoy a bit of a tussle sometimes, it really has to be stopped in this forum and at this time. As a member of the INDOLOGY committee, therefore, I would like to ask all members of this list to cease posting on this topic for one week at least. After that, if it is necessary to resume the discussion, it must absolutely be carried out in a genuinely impersonal manner. With thanks to all parties, Dominik Wujastyk -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk On Mon, 16 Mar 2009, Gruenendahl, Reinhold wrote: > Pressure is building up to end this debate. So I'll be as concise as > possible: > > > > Professor Franco's claim was: > >> It is touching to see how whenever Prof. Slaje is involved in a debate > >> Dr. Gruenendahl comes to his rescue. > > Since not "anyone" has access to the archive of the German INDOLOGIE-list > where the exchange Professor Franco refers to took place, I have pasted the > two relevant messages below. I hope this will show that I argued first and > foremost in defence of freedom of information. If Prof. Franco feels that > this is enough to prove his claim, I'm still waiting for a second example to > prove the "whenever"-pattern. > > _______________________ > > > > Meanwhile, Professor Franco has shifted the debate into yet another > direction, claiming that my contribution to the Festschrift Gustav Roth was > an "attempt to exonerate German Indology from its affiliation with National > Socialism". For those who want to hear it, the title of my article says what > it is about: > > "Von der Indologie zum V?lkermord. Die Kontinuit?tskonstrukte Sheldon > Pollocks und seiner Epigonen im Lichte ihrer Beweisf?hrung". > > My "agenda", as Professor Franco put it, was to examine the evidence Pollock > and his epigones produce in support of their claim that "German Indology" > contributed to the formulation of the National Socialist ideology. The result > was that this supposed evidence was largely non-existent. > > This has nothing to do with exonerating "German indology" (a term Pollock > leaves undefined). That some indologists were members of the NSDAP is > undisputed, but it still remains to be shown that they contributed to the > formation of NS ideology, and if so, that their contribution was in any way > informed by their being indologists. > > My examination involved a differentiated look at the positions taken by > Walther W?st and Erich Frauwallner. This part is the source of Professor > Franco's discontextualized quotes, and I must leave it to the discretion of > the reader whether they are an adequate representation of my article. > > If required, I can discuss Professor Franco's charges point by point, but for > the time being I shall leave it at that. > > > > Reinhold Gr?nendahl > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Von: Indology im Auftrag von franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE > Gesendet: Mo 16.03.2009 03:50 > An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Betreff: Gruenendahl, German Indology and National Socialism (Was: No longer > Language barriers --- financial barriers) > > > > Quoting "Gruenendahl, Reinhold" : > >> Since Professor Franco indicated that he was too busy for proving his > earlier >> claims it would indeed be too much to ask him to substantiate his latest >> charges. > > Even this very statement is a distortion or ?fabrication.? I never > said or indicated that I am too busy to prove my claims. Dr. > Gruenendahl asked for one example (?may I ask you to give one > example??) and I gave him one example. He may not like the example, he > may think that the example is no good, but he cannot (or should not) > claim that I did not take the time to write to him. > > Further, I tried to take this discussion off the list, honestly > thinking that ?everybody had enough of this.? But Gruenendahl knows > better. The real reason why I do not want to discuss it on the list, > he claims, is that I do not want to discuss the example in public (?I > understand that this is the reason why he would rather not discuss it > in public.?). Basically he accuses me of being dishonest. But this > accusation is plainly absurd. We already discussed this example in > public, and Gruenendahl knows it because he himself participated in > the discussion. If anyone is interested, they can find the discussion > in the archive of the German Indologie discussion group. > > Evidence for ad hominem argument and cheap psychological analysis was > already given in the last message, but if it needs to be ?proved?, I > quote: ?I cannot see who expects to gain from > this, except in terms of attention - undeserved attention, in my > view.? It is clear from the context that this statement refers to me. > > The most significant point, however, which should have a broader > appeal, is Dr. Gruenendahl?s attempt to exonerate German Indology from > its affiliation with National Socialism. I think the issue is > important and want to discuss it in some detail, without, however, > being exhaustive. > > The publication in question is Gruenendahl?s contribution to Gustav > Roth?s Felicitation Volume, entitled ?Von der Indologie zum > V?lkermord,? In U. H?sken, P. Kieffer-P?lz and A. Peters [eds.], > Jaina-Itih?sa-Ratna. Festschrift f?r Gustav Roth zum 90. Geburtstag. > Marburg 2006, pp. 209-236. Already when I first read it, I was > dismayed not only by Gruenendahl?s occasionally spiteful criticism of > Sheldon Pollock, but also by the way Gruenendahl misunderstands and > misrepresents his sources, especially in his attempt to exonerate > Frauwallner from the charge, made by Pollock, of having been > affiliated with National Socialist ideology. > > Gruenendahl (p. 217) argues (and this is typical for his emotional > style) that one would thoroughly misunderstand Pollock?s intentions if > one would drag them down to the level of facts, which are a negligible > quantity in the age of ?polyvalent? discourse. He states that Pollock > does not use facts to determine reality, but resorts to strategic > choices and interpretations of the materials to draw maximum attention > to himself (!). Had I tried, I could not have found a better way to > describe Gruenendahl?s own approach to the topic. > > I will illustrate the above with ?facts.? But let me first note > Gruenendahl?s remarkable lack of sensitivity to the historical and > political context. A racist or racialist statement made in Germany in > 1939 or 1942 cannot be divorced from this context, and to argue, as > Gruenendahl does (e.g., p. 232 and passim), that similar statements > were already made by racists of previous generations (such as > Gobineau, Renan, etc.) and that it is therefore not evident that these > ideas (as expressed e.g., by Frauwallner in 1944) are associated with > National Socialist ideology, is not only na?ve, but preposterous. > > Here are a few examples of how Gruenendahl twists his source material. > > Frauwallner (in 1944) approvingly quotes von Soden to the effect that > only the Indo-Europeans, which are determined by the Nordic race, are > capable of creating science properly speaking and states that ?on the > basis of our investigations up to now we cannot but agree with this > statement? (? ?da? Wis?sen?schaft im strengen Sinn des Wortes etwas > ist, das nur von den von der nordischen Rasse bestimmten Indogermanen > geschaffen werden konnte? (S. 556). Wir k?nnen dieser Behauptung auf > Grund unserer bisherigen Betrachtungen nur beistimmen.?). > > Gruenendahl (p. 232) interprets this statement to mean that > Frauwallner at least signalized some reserve in his endorsement of von > Soden?s statement (?? einen Vorbehalt zumindest angedeutet?). This > interpretation of a stereotypical expression (?auf Grund unserer > bisherigen Betrachtungen?) is simply tendentious and farfetched. There > is certainly nothing in this context to support it. > > Frauwallner?s confident perception of himself as a true pioneer of > solid philological research into the history of Indian philosophy is > misinterpreted by Gruenendahl (p. 231) to mean that Frauwallner stated > that the relevant direction of Indological research (i.e., research > that is programmatically determined by the aspect of race) was in its > beginning?an unsuccessful attempt by Gruenendahl to show, on the > alleged authority of Frauwallner himself, that Indologists up to this > time had not yet followed this line of research. > > Furthermore, in his polemical zeal Gruenendahl misre?presents > Frauwallner?s hypothesis of two distinct, racially conditioned > historical phases of Indian philosophy and inverts Frauwallner?s > judgement about the second period: he presents Frauwallner?s reference > to the peak (occurring in the first half of the second millennium) of > the development of Indian philosophy in its *second*, clearly inferior > phase as the view that ?the mingling of the two races? was fruitful > and even led to a new peak of its own kind of Indian philosophy (p. > 229)! > > Gruenendahl seems to ignore that Frauwallner repeated his racist > interpretation of Indian philosophy even after the war (and without > any reservations) in his ?History of Indian Philosophy,? Vol. I, pp. > 26-27. In this context, Frauwallner?s usage of the typical Nazi term > ?Volksk?rper? (nation?s body) has to be noted. As is well known, the > National Socialists thought of the German nation as a body to be kept > healthy, clean and free from disease, obnoxious influences and > parasites (such as minorities belonging to so-called inferior races). > The same racist historical interpretation is repeated as late as 1959 > in Frauwallner?s article ?Indische Philosophie.? This time at least he > adds that a definitive statement about this, i.e., the racial > background of the two developmental phases of Indian philosophy, seems > ?premature? (verfr?ht). > > That Frauwallner was an anti-Semite is certainly not an unfounded > inference by Pollock (as Gruenendahl claims on p. 233), but a well > attested fact. Even though there are no direct anti-Semitic statements > in Frauwallner?s writings, there are other sources that testify > clearly to his anti-Semitism well after WW II (cf., for instance, the > sources utilized by Jakob Stuchlik?s dissertation submitted to the > University of Vienna in 2005 and his forthcoming monograph on the > background of Frauwallner?s ?Aryan hypothesis? to be published by the > Austrian Academy of Sciences). It is arbitrary and unacceptable to > form a judgement on the basis of published Indological studies alone. > > Gruenendahl points out some differences between Frauwallner?s > statements and those of Chamberlain (p. 228) and the agreement of the > former with Gobineau?s positions (p. 229), but fails to indicate > Frauwallner?s more immediate sources of inspiration. One such source > is the renowned Vedic and Bud?dhist scholar Hermann Oldenberg, whom > Frauwallner admired; some of the former?s statements seem to have been > of direct inspiration to him. I will quote from this source below > because I believe that it is not well known and interesting reading > (Die Literatur des alten Indien, pp. 132-133). > > More details on the relationship between Frauwallner?s work on the > history of Indian philosophy and his National Socialist ideology are > available in a preface by Karin Preisendanz and myself to a > forthcoming reprint of Frauwallner?s Philosophie des Buddhismus. > > As for Gruenendahl?s confident statement that there is evidently no > ideological consensus between Walther W?st and Ludwig Alsdorf (p. > 213), and his denial that racist ideology did not at all affect > Alsdorf?s scholarly work (p. 225), compare the first chapter of > Alsdorf?s ?Indien? in the Weltpolitische B?cherei (supervised by > Alfred Rosenberg himself), second edition, Deutscher Verlag Berlin, > 1942, especially pp. 12-13. > > To be sure, Pollock?s statements and hypotheses are at times daring > and sweeping, but they constitute the beginning of the exploration of > this phase of the history of our discipline, all the more so as, more > than sixty years after WWII, no German Indologist has attempted to > undertake the task of coming to terms with Indology during this dark > period of German history. In this sense, Gruenendahl?s announced > monograph will be very welcome indeed. One only hopes that it will be > less biased than his paper referred to above. > > With best wishes, > Eli Franco > > P.S. For Prof. Slaje?s eloquent praise of Gruenendahl?s work and > method, cf. his message to the list dated January 9, 2007. > > H. Oldenberg, Die Literatur des alten Indien, 2nd ed., Stuttgart 1923, > pp. 132-133: > ?Above all there were probably influences [by the indi?genous people > of India] that worked in a very pro?found way which we can only > surmise: through the gradually progressing transformation of the > blood, which means a transformation of the Soul, through the constant > influx of new quantities of the blood of savages and semi-savages into > the veins of those who still called themselves Aryans. Zeus and Apollo > continued to rule as long as there were Greek gods because the Greek > nation remained the same. Indra and Agni had to leave the field to > other gods because the Indian nation had become a different one. For > these minds, in which an inscrutable jumble of anta?gonistic powers, > intertwined with each other, unleashed at each other, was at work, the > Vedic gods were much too guile?lessly simple; their being was all too > easily exhausted. They had come from the North: now tropical gods were > needed. These were hardly of fixed shapes any longer; they were whole > tangles of shapes, bodies from which oozed heads upon heads, arms upon > arms, multi?tudes of hands holding multitudes of attributes, clubs and > lotus flowers: voluptuous, sombre and grandiose poetry every?where, > exuberance and blurred shapelessness: a terrible disaster for the fine > arts? (?Vor allem werden jene Ein?fl?sse (scil. der Urbewohner > Indiens) in einer tiefsten Weise gewirkt haben, die wir nur ahnen > k?nnen: durch die allm?hlich fortschreitende Wandlung des Blutes, die > eine Wandlung der Seele bedeutet, durch das be?st?ndige Ein?str?men > neuer Mengen von Wilden- und Halb?wil?den?blut in die Adern derer, die > sich noch immer Arier nann?ten. Zeus und Apollon haben ihre Herrschaft > be?halten, solange es griechische G?tter gab, denn das Grie?chenvolk > blieb dasselbe. Indra und Agni mussten andern G?ttern das Feld r?umen, > denn das indische Volk war ein andres ge?worden. F?r diese Geister, in > denen un?er?gr?ndliche Mischungen widerstreitender Kr?fte, > mit?einander ver?schlungen, gegeneinander entfesselt, ihr Spiel > trieben, waren die Vedag?tter allzu kindlich einfach; gar zu leicht > war ihr Wesen ausgesch?pft. Sie waren von Norden ge?kommen: jetzt > brauchte man tropische G?tter. Es waren kaum mehr feste Gestalten; es > waren ganze Gestal?ten?kn?uel, K?rper, aus denen K?pfe ?ber K?pfe, > Arme ?ber Arme hervor?quollen, Mengen von H?nden, die Mengen von > Attributen, Keulen und Lotusblumen halten: ?berall ?ppige und d?stere, > grandiose Poesie, ?berf?lle und ver?schwommene Formlosigkeit: Ein > b?ses Verh?ngnis f?r die bildende Kunst.?) > > > > > > > > > > > >> [A pedantic correction: We met in Berlin on one or two occasions, and I >> remember them as rather pleasant.] >> >> >> >> Reinhold Gr?nendahl >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> Von: Indology im Auftrag von franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE >> Gesendet: Sa 14.03.2009 23:47 >> An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Betreff: No longer Language barriers --- financial barriers >> >> >> >> I guess I was wrong; unfortunately, not everybody had enough of this. >> So here we go for one more round, hopefully the last. I apologize for >> responding a bit late; I was busy during the last few days. >> >> Dr. Gruenendahl is right. Two times are not enough to establish a >> pattern. Perhaps next time he will side with me against a point made >> by Prof. Slaje, but I somehow doubt it. >> >> What I object to, of course, is not the fact that he takes sides in a >> discussion, but to his aggressive manner, malicious distortion of what >> I said, his use of ad hominem arguments, and cheap psychological >> analysis of the type ?Franco writes because he wants to draw attention >> to himself, undeserved attention.? In the same vein I could say, e.g., >> ?Gruenendahl?s offensiveness is only due to some personal frustration, >> deserved frustration.? However, I do not want to regress to >> Kindergarten level. >> >> Some of you have voiced the concern that the list has become a place >> for personal and private battles. I can assure you that there was >> absolutely nothing personal in my remark about the Glasenapp >> Foundation. Furthermore, Dr. Gruenendahl and I do not know each other; >> at least I do not remember ever meeting him. >> >> Further, I do not think that Dr. Gruenendahl *purposefully* distorts >> what I said, but that his vision is blurred by some agenda. The same >> kind of distortion, at times even spiteful criticism he displays in >> some of his published work, notably in his attempt to exonerate German >> Indology from the charge of having been affiliated with National >> Socialism. There was a discussion about this last year on the list. >> >> With best wishes, >> Eli Franco >> >> Quoting "Gruenendahl, Reinhold" : >> >>> On 9 Mar 2009 at 21:09, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE wrote: >>> >>>> I will try to refresh Dr. Gruenendahl's memory off the list. I am sure >>> >>>> everybody had enough of this by now. >>> >>> >>> >>> Apologies to everybody who has had enough of this. >>> >>> I thank Professor Franco for his kind assistance in refreshing my memory. >> As >>> I see it, the significance of the case he referred to offline lies not so >>> much in my agreement with Walter Slaje (actually I had endorsed his >>> forwarding of third-party information), but in my perceived disagreement >> with >>> Professor Franco, who was not altogether disinterested in the case and its >>> decision before a German court. I understand that this is the reason why > he >>> would rather not discuss it in public. >>> >>> So we still are where we were yesterday: I would have to consider > Professor >>> Franco's remark a mere fabrication unless he comes up with evidence that > is >>> presentable to the public, preferably a case in which he had no personal >>> interest, if that isn't asking too much. It goes without saying that at >> least >>> one more example would be needed to get anywhere near the >> "whenever"-pattern >>> insinuated in his remark. >>> >>> Talking about patterns, there is another one that seems all too familiar: >> "I >>> have made my point, and now that I have been asked to prove it I am sure >>> everyone had enough of it." >>> >>> Reinhold Gr?nendahl >>> >>> ***************************************** >>> >>> On 9 Mar 2009 at 17:15, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE wrote: >>> >>>> It is touching to see how whenever Prof. Slaje is involved in a debate >>> >>>> Dr. Gruenendahl comes to his rescue. >>> >>>> Best wishes >>> >>>> EF >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. >> >> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > > > > ################################################################# > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "gruenendahl" > > To: "Eli Franco" ; "Informationsaustausch der > > deutschsprachigen Indologie" > > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 10:56 AM > > Subject: Re: Urteil Oberverwaltungsgericht Hamburg zu Berufungsverfahren > > > > Ich kann weder erkennen, weshalb der Hinweis von Herrn Slaje auf eine > > im Internet zug?ngliche Information "einiger Pr?zisierungen und > > Erg?nzungen" bed?rfte, noch, welchen Beitrag die Einlassung von Herrn > > Franco dazu ggf. leisten k?nnte. Gegenstand der Nachricht von Herrn > > Slaje war die Bereitstellung der Information, nicht das Gerichtsurteil. Den > > Hinweis von Herrn Slaje nehme ich dankend zur Kenntnis, die kaum > > objektiv zu nennende Einsch?tzung des Berufungsverfahrens (" ... zum > > Himmel stinkt ..." etc.) sowie des in der Sache ergangenen Urteils sollte > > aus meiner Sicht nicht Gegenstand dieser Liste sein. > > > > Mit freundlichen Gr??en > > Reinhold Gr?nendahl > > ***************************************************************************** > ******** > > > > > > Absender: "Eli Franco" > > Empf nger: > > Datum: 27. Sep 2005 02:05 > > Betreff: Re: Urteil Oberverwaltungsgericht Hamburg zu Berufungsverfahren > > Herr Gruenendahl liest nicht richtig. Herr Slajes Nachricht ist nicht bloss > > ein Hinweis, sondern auch eine Behauptung, naemlich dass der Urteil des > > Oberverwaltungsgerichts Hamburg "auch f?r die Indologie von erheblicher > > Relevanz sein d rfte", und dies ist falsch oder "bedarf einer > > Praezisierung", weil jedes Bundesland ein anderes Hochschulgesetz hat. > > Welche Motivation hinter diesem angeblich neutralem Hinweis steht, vermag > > ich nicht zu sagen. > > Herr Gruenendahl folgert auch nicht richtig. Nur aus der Behauptung, dass > > das Verfahren stinkt, kann man nicht erschliessen, dass die Behauptung nicht > > "objektiv" ist. Manche Verfahren stinken auch "objektiv" und im vorliegenden > > Fall wurden auch die durchaus nachweisbaren, objektiven Indizien dafuer > > angefuehrt. > > Mir ist ferner nicht ersichtlich warum er nur fuer eine gewisse Art von > > Information dankbar ist, und nicht fuer eine andere. > > Ich bin jedoch im Grunde ganz Herrn Gruenendahls Meinung. Das Urteil sollte > > nicht Gegenstand > > einer Diskussion in dieser Liste sein und ich haette auch nichts darueber > > geschrieben, wenn Herr > > Slaje nicht mit seinem "objektiven" Hinweis und seiner Behauptung eben eine > > solche provoziert > > haette. > > Mit freundliche Gruessen > > Eli Franco > > > > > > > > > From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Mon Mar 16 10:35:20 2009 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 09 11:35:20 +0100 Subject: AW: Gruenendahl, German Indology and National Socialism (Was: No longer Language barriers --- financial barriers) Message-ID: <161227085361.23782.5324103697667741624.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 21173 Lines: 522 Pressure is building up to end this debate. So I'll be as concise as possible: Professor Franco's claim was: > It is touching to see how whenever Prof. Slaje is involved in a debate > Dr. Gruenendahl comes to his rescue. Since not "anyone" has access to the archive of the German INDOLOGIE-list where the exchange Professor Franco refers to took place, I have pasted the two relevant messages below. I hope this will show that I argued first and foremost in defence of freedom of information. If Prof. Franco feels that this is enough to prove his claim, I'm still waiting for a second example to prove the "whenever"-pattern. _______________________ Meanwhile, Professor Franco has shifted the debate into yet another direction, claiming that my contribution to the Festschrift Gustav Roth was an "attempt to exonerate German Indology from its affiliation with National Socialism". For those who want to hear it, the title of my article says what it is about: "Von der Indologie zum V?lkermord. Die Kontinuit?tskonstrukte Sheldon Pollocks und seiner Epigonen im Lichte ihrer Beweisf?hrung". My "agenda", as Professor Franco put it, was to examine the evidence Pollock and his epigones produce in support of their claim that "German Indology" contributed to the formulation of the National Socialist ideology. The result was that this supposed evidence was largely non-existent. This has nothing to do with exonerating "German indology" (a term Pollock leaves undefined). That some indologists were members of the NSDAP is undisputed, but it still remains to be shown that they contributed to the formation of NS ideology, and if so, that their contribution was in any way informed by their being indologists. My examination involved a differentiated look at the positions taken by Walther W?st and Erich Frauwallner. This part is the source of Professor Franco's discontextualized quotes, and I must leave it to the discretion of the reader whether they are an adequate representation of my article. If required, I can discuss Professor Franco's charges point by point, but for the time being I shall leave it at that. Reinhold Gr?nendahl ________________________________ Von: Indology im Auftrag von franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Gesendet: Mo 16.03.2009 03:50 An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Betreff: Gruenendahl, German Indology and National Socialism (Was: No longer Language barriers --- financial barriers) Quoting "Gruenendahl, Reinhold" : > Since Professor Franco indicated that he was too busy for proving his earlier > claims it would indeed be too much to ask him to substantiate his latest > charges. Even this very statement is a distortion or ?fabrication.? I never said or indicated that I am too busy to prove my claims. Dr. Gruenendahl asked for one example (?may I ask you to give one example??) and I gave him one example. He may not like the example, he may think that the example is no good, but he cannot (or should not) claim that I did not take the time to write to him. Further, I tried to take this discussion off the list, honestly thinking that ?everybody had enough of this.? But Gruenendahl knows better. The real reason why I do not want to discuss it on the list, he claims, is that I do not want to discuss the example in public (?I understand that this is the reason why he would rather not discuss it in public.?). Basically he accuses me of being dishonest. But this accusation is plainly absurd. We already discussed this example in public, and Gruenendahl knows it because he himself participated in the discussion. If anyone is interested, they can find the discussion in the archive of the German Indologie discussion group. Evidence for ad hominem argument and cheap psychological analysis was already given in the last message, but if it needs to be ?proved?, I quote: ?I cannot see who expects to gain from this, except in terms of attention - undeserved attention, in my view.? It is clear from the context that this statement refers to me. The most significant point, however, which should have a broader appeal, is Dr. Gruenendahl?s attempt to exonerate German Indology from its affiliation with National Socialism. I think the issue is important and want to discuss it in some detail, without, however, being exhaustive. The publication in question is Gruenendahl?s contribution to Gustav Roth?s Felicitation Volume, entitled ?Von der Indologie zum V?lkermord,? In U. H?sken, P. Kieffer-P?lz and A. Peters [eds.], Jaina-Itih?sa-Ratna. Festschrift f?r Gustav Roth zum 90. Geburtstag. Marburg 2006, pp. 209-236. Already when I first read it, I was dismayed not only by Gruenendahl?s occasionally spiteful criticism of Sheldon Pollock, but also by the way Gruenendahl misunderstands and misrepresents his sources, especially in his attempt to exonerate Frauwallner from the charge, made by Pollock, of having been affiliated with National Socialist ideology. Gruenendahl (p. 217) argues (and this is typical for his emotional style) that one would thoroughly misunderstand Pollock?s intentions if one would drag them down to the level of facts, which are a negligible quantity in the age of ?polyvalent? discourse. He states that Pollock does not use facts to determine reality, but resorts to strategic choices and interpretations of the materials to draw maximum attention to himself (!). Had I tried, I could not have found a better way to describe Gruenendahl?s own approach to the topic. I will illustrate the above with ?facts.? But let me first note Gruenendahl?s remarkable lack of sensitivity to the historical and political context. A racist or racialist statement made in Germany in 1939 or 1942 cannot be divorced from this context, and to argue, as Gruenendahl does (e.g., p. 232 and passim), that similar statements were already made by racists of previous generations (such as Gobineau, Renan, etc.) and that it is therefore not evident that these ideas (as expressed e.g., by Frauwallner in 1944) are associated with National Socialist ideology, is not only na?ve, but preposterous. Here are a few examples of how Gruenendahl twists his source material. Frauwallner (in 1944) approvingly quotes von Soden to the effect that only the Indo-Europeans, which are determined by the Nordic race, are capable of creating science properly speaking and states that ?on the basis of our investigations up to now we cannot but agree with this statement? (? ?da? Wis?sen?schaft im strengen Sinn des Wortes etwas ist, das nur von den von der nordischen Rasse bestimmten Indogermanen geschaffen werden konnte? (S. 556). Wir k?nnen dieser Behauptung auf Grund unserer bisherigen Betrachtungen nur beistimmen.?). Gruenendahl (p. 232) interprets this statement to mean that Frauwallner at least signalized some reserve in his endorsement of von Soden?s statement (?? einen Vorbehalt zumindest angedeutet?). This interpretation of a stereotypical expression (?auf Grund unserer bisherigen Betrachtungen?) is simply tendentious and farfetched. There is certainly nothing in this context to support it. Frauwallner?s confident perception of himself as a true pioneer of solid philological research into the history of Indian philosophy is misinterpreted by Gruenendahl (p. 231) to mean that Frauwallner stated that the relevant direction of Indological research (i.e., research that is programmatically determined by the aspect of race) was in its beginning?an unsuccessful attempt by Gruenendahl to show, on the alleged authority of Frauwallner himself, that Indologists up to this time had not yet followed this line of research. Furthermore, in his polemical zeal Gruenendahl misre?presents Frauwallner?s hypothesis of two distinct, racially conditioned historical phases of Indian philosophy and inverts Frauwallner?s judgement about the second period: he presents Frauwallner?s reference to the peak (occurring in the first half of the second millennium) of the development of Indian philosophy in its *second*, clearly inferior phase as the view that ?the mingling of the two races? was fruitful and even led to a new peak of its own kind of Indian philosophy (p. 229)! Gruenendahl seems to ignore that Frauwallner repeated his racist interpretation of Indian philosophy even after the war (and without any reservations) in his ?History of Indian Philosophy,? Vol. I, pp. 26-27. In this context, Frauwallner?s usage of the typical Nazi term ?Volksk?rper? (nation?s body) has to be noted. As is well known, the National Socialists thought of the German nation as a body to be kept healthy, clean and free from disease, obnoxious influences and parasites (such as minorities belonging to so-called inferior races). The same racist historical interpretation is repeated as late as 1959 in Frauwallner?s article ?Indische Philosophie.? This time at least he adds that a definitive statement about this, i.e., the racial background of the two developmental phases of Indian philosophy, seems ?premature? (verfr?ht). That Frauwallner was an anti-Semite is certainly not an unfounded inference by Pollock (as Gruenendahl claims on p. 233), but a well attested fact. Even though there are no direct anti-Semitic statements in Frauwallner?s writings, there are other sources that testify clearly to his anti-Semitism well after WW II (cf., for instance, the sources utilized by Jakob Stuchlik?s dissertation submitted to the University of Vienna in 2005 and his forthcoming monograph on the background of Frauwallner?s ?Aryan hypothesis? to be published by the Austrian Academy of Sciences). It is arbitrary and unacceptable to form a judgement on the basis of published Indological studies alone. Gruenendahl points out some differences between Frauwallner?s statements and those of Chamberlain (p. 228) and the agreement of the former with Gobineau?s positions (p. 229), but fails to indicate Frauwallner?s more immediate sources of inspiration. One such source is the renowned Vedic and Bud?dhist scholar Hermann Oldenberg, whom Frauwallner admired; some of the former?s statements seem to have been of direct inspiration to him. I will quote from this source below because I believe that it is not well known and interesting reading (Die Literatur des alten Indien, pp. 132-133). More details on the relationship between Frauwallner?s work on the history of Indian philosophy and his National Socialist ideology are available in a preface by Karin Preisendanz and myself to a forthcoming reprint of Frauwallner?s Philosophie des Buddhismus. As for Gruenendahl?s confident statement that there is evidently no ideological consensus between Walther W?st and Ludwig Alsdorf (p. 213), and his denial that racist ideology did not at all affect Alsdorf?s scholarly work (p. 225), compare the first chapter of Alsdorf?s ?Indien? in the Weltpolitische B?cherei (supervised by Alfred Rosenberg himself), second edition, Deutscher Verlag Berlin, 1942, especially pp. 12-13. To be sure, Pollock?s statements and hypotheses are at times daring and sweeping, but they constitute the beginning of the exploration of this phase of the history of our discipline, all the more so as, more than sixty years after WWII, no German Indologist has attempted to undertake the task of coming to terms with Indology during this dark period of German history. In this sense, Gruenendahl?s announced monograph will be very welcome indeed. One only hopes that it will be less biased than his paper referred to above. With best wishes, Eli Franco P.S. For Prof. Slaje?s eloquent praise of Gruenendahl?s work and method, cf. his message to the list dated January 9, 2007. H. Oldenberg, Die Literatur des alten Indien, 2nd ed., Stuttgart 1923, pp. 132-133: ?Above all there were probably influences [by the indi?genous people of India] that worked in a very pro?found way which we can only surmise: through the gradually progressing transformation of the blood, which means a transformation of the Soul, through the constant influx of new quantities of the blood of savages and semi-savages into the veins of those who still called themselves Aryans. Zeus and Apollo continued to rule as long as there were Greek gods because the Greek nation remained the same. Indra and Agni had to leave the field to other gods because the Indian nation had become a different one. For these minds, in which an inscrutable jumble of anta?gonistic powers, intertwined with each other, unleashed at each other, was at work, the Vedic gods were much too guile?lessly simple; their being was all too easily exhausted. They had come from the North: now tropical gods were needed. These were hardly of fixed shapes any longer; they were whole tangles of shapes, bodies from which oozed heads upon heads, arms upon arms, multi?tudes of hands holding multitudes of attributes, clubs and lotus flowers: voluptuous, sombre and grandiose poetry every?where, exuberance and blurred shapelessness: a terrible disaster for the fine arts? (?Vor allem werden jene Ein?fl?sse (scil. der Urbewohner Indiens) in einer tiefsten Weise gewirkt haben, die wir nur ahnen k?nnen: durch die allm?hlich fortschreitende Wandlung des Blutes, die eine Wandlung der Seele bedeutet, durch das be?st?ndige Ein?str?men neuer Mengen von Wilden- und Halb?wil?den?blut in die Adern derer, die sich noch immer Arier nann?ten. Zeus und Apollon haben ihre Herrschaft be?halten, solange es griechische G?tter gab, denn das Grie?chenvolk blieb dasselbe. Indra und Agni mussten andern G?ttern das Feld r?umen, denn das indische Volk war ein andres ge?worden. F?r diese Geister, in denen un?er?gr?ndliche Mischungen widerstreitender Kr?fte, mit?einander ver?schlungen, gegeneinander entfesselt, ihr Spiel trieben, waren die Vedag?tter allzu kindlich einfach; gar zu leicht war ihr Wesen ausgesch?pft. Sie waren von Norden ge?kommen: jetzt brauchte man tropische G?tter. Es waren kaum mehr feste Gestalten; es waren ganze Gestal?ten?kn?uel, K?rper, aus denen K?pfe ?ber K?pfe, Arme ?ber Arme hervor?quollen, Mengen von H?nden, die Mengen von Attributen, Keulen und Lotusblumen halten: ?berall ?ppige und d?stere, grandiose Poesie, ?berf?lle und ver?schwommene Formlosigkeit: Ein b?ses Verh?ngnis f?r die bildende Kunst.?) > [A pedantic correction: We met in Berlin on one or two occasions, and I > remember them as rather pleasant.] > > > > Reinhold Gr?nendahl > > > > ________________________________ > > Von: Indology im Auftrag von franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE > Gesendet: Sa 14.03.2009 23:47 > An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Betreff: No longer Language barriers --- financial barriers > > > > I guess I was wrong; unfortunately, not everybody had enough of this. > So here we go for one more round, hopefully the last. I apologize for > responding a bit late; I was busy during the last few days. > > Dr. Gruenendahl is right. Two times are not enough to establish a > pattern. Perhaps next time he will side with me against a point made > by Prof. Slaje, but I somehow doubt it. > > What I object to, of course, is not the fact that he takes sides in a > discussion, but to his aggressive manner, malicious distortion of what > I said, his use of ad hominem arguments, and cheap psychological > analysis of the type ?Franco writes because he wants to draw attention > to himself, undeserved attention.? In the same vein I could say, e.g., > ?Gruenendahl?s offensiveness is only due to some personal frustration, > deserved frustration.? However, I do not want to regress to > Kindergarten level. > > Some of you have voiced the concern that the list has become a place > for personal and private battles. I can assure you that there was > absolutely nothing personal in my remark about the Glasenapp > Foundation. Furthermore, Dr. Gruenendahl and I do not know each other; > at least I do not remember ever meeting him. > > Further, I do not think that Dr. Gruenendahl *purposefully* distorts > what I said, but that his vision is blurred by some agenda. The same > kind of distortion, at times even spiteful criticism he displays in > some of his published work, notably in his attempt to exonerate German > Indology from the charge of having been affiliated with National > Socialism. There was a discussion about this last year on the list. > > With best wishes, > Eli Franco > > Quoting "Gruenendahl, Reinhold" : > >> On 9 Mar 2009 at 21:09, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE wrote: >> >>> I will try to refresh Dr. Gruenendahl's memory off the list. I am sure >> >>> everybody had enough of this by now. >> >> >> >> Apologies to everybody who has had enough of this. >> >> I thank Professor Franco for his kind assistance in refreshing my memory. > As >> I see it, the significance of the case he referred to offline lies not so >> much in my agreement with Walter Slaje (actually I had endorsed his >> forwarding of third-party information), but in my perceived disagreement > with >> Professor Franco, who was not altogether disinterested in the case and its >> decision before a German court. I understand that this is the reason why he >> would rather not discuss it in public. >> >> So we still are where we were yesterday: I would have to consider Professor >> Franco's remark a mere fabrication unless he comes up with evidence that is >> presentable to the public, preferably a case in which he had no personal >> interest, if that isn't asking too much. It goes without saying that at > least >> one more example would be needed to get anywhere near the > "whenever"-pattern >> insinuated in his remark. >> >> Talking about patterns, there is another one that seems all too familiar: > "I >> have made my point, and now that I have been asked to prove it I am sure >> everyone had enough of it." >> >> Reinhold Gr?nendahl >> >> ***************************************** >> >> On 9 Mar 2009 at 17:15, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE wrote: >> >>> It is touching to see how whenever Prof. Slaje is involved in a debate >> >>> Dr. Gruenendahl comes to his rescue. >> >>> Best wishes >> >>> EF >> >> >> >> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ################################################################# ----- Original Message ----- From: "gruenendahl" To: "Eli Franco" ; "Informationsaustausch der deutschsprachigen Indologie" Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 10:56 AM Subject: Re: Urteil Oberverwaltungsgericht Hamburg zu Berufungsverfahren Ich kann weder erkennen, weshalb der Hinweis von Herrn Slaje auf eine im Internet zug?ngliche Information "einiger Pr?zisierungen und Erg?nzungen" bed?rfte, noch, welchen Beitrag die Einlassung von Herrn Franco dazu ggf. leisten k?nnte. Gegenstand der Nachricht von Herrn Slaje war die Bereitstellung der Information, nicht das Gerichtsurteil. Den Hinweis von Herrn Slaje nehme ich dankend zur Kenntnis, die kaum objektiv zu nennende Einsch?tzung des Berufungsverfahrens (" ... zum Himmel stinkt ..." etc.) sowie des in der Sache ergangenen Urteils sollte aus meiner Sicht nicht Gegenstand dieser Liste sein. Mit freundlichen Gr??en Reinhold Gr?nendahl ***************************************************************************** ******** Absender: "Eli Franco" Empf nger: Datum: 27. Sep 2005 02:05 Betreff: Re: Urteil Oberverwaltungsgericht Hamburg zu Berufungsverfahren Herr Gruenendahl liest nicht richtig. Herr Slajes Nachricht ist nicht bloss ein Hinweis, sondern auch eine Behauptung, naemlich dass der Urteil des Oberverwaltungsgerichts Hamburg "auch f?r die Indologie von erheblicher Relevanz sein d rfte", und dies ist falsch oder "bedarf einer Praezisierung", weil jedes Bundesland ein anderes Hochschulgesetz hat. Welche Motivation hinter diesem angeblich neutralem Hinweis steht, vermag ich nicht zu sagen. Herr Gruenendahl folgert auch nicht richtig. Nur aus der Behauptung, dass das Verfahren stinkt, kann man nicht erschliessen, dass die Behauptung nicht "objektiv" ist. Manche Verfahren stinken auch "objektiv" und im vorliegenden Fall wurden auch die durchaus nachweisbaren, objektiven Indizien dafuer angefuehrt. Mir ist ferner nicht ersichtlich warum er nur fuer eine gewisse Art von Information dankbar ist, und nicht fuer eine andere. Ich bin jedoch im Grunde ganz Herrn Gruenendahls Meinung. Das Urteil sollte nicht Gegenstand einer Diskussion in dieser Liste sein und ich haette auch nichts darueber geschrieben, wenn Herr Slaje nicht mit seinem "objektiven" Hinweis und seiner Behauptung eben eine solche provoziert haette. Mit freundliche Gruessen Eli Franco From jemhouben at GMAIL.COM Mon Mar 16 15:54:08 2009 From: jemhouben at GMAIL.COM (Jan Houben) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 09 16:54:08 +0100 Subject: time to change the tune In-Reply-To: <20090316031204.BUC75839@m4500-02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227085367.23782.6168267186751270740.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1075 Lines: 38 It is sometimes easy to be carried away, but in order to protect the large majority of "good guys/girls" from this list and in order not to scare them away: Dominik's old rule of thumb "two warnings then out" (stemming from the early times of the "wild" indology list) should be announced, should be known to all list members and should be adhered to. Jan Houben On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 9:12 AM, wrote: > I find the use of the Indology list > by our colleagues in Germany to be > tiresome in the extreme and not > to accord very well with the purposes > for which Indology was established. > > If this continues much longer, I, for > one, will withdraw my name from the subscription list. > > Perhaps a separate listserve dedicated to > settling scores in Germany should be contemplated, > so that those interested in this will have > their own playpen. > > > Matthew T. Kapstein > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies > The University of Chicago Divinity School > > Directeur d'?tudes > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > From victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL Mon Mar 16 18:53:14 2009 From: victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL (victor van Bijlert) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 09 19:53:14 +0100 Subject: time to change the tune In-Reply-To: <20090316031204.BUC75839@m4500-02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227085370.23782.16728150101259630480.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1064 Lines: 37 Some days ago I cautiously attempted the same warning. But instead of understanding I was met with barking from various sides at my temerity. This is precisely why a forum or discussionlist needs moderators. Greetings Victor van Bijlert -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Verzonden: maandag 16 maart 2009 9:12 Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Onderwerp: time to change the tune I find the use of the Indology list by our colleagues in Germany to be tiresome in the extreme and not to accord very well with the purposes for which Indology was established. If this continues much longer, I, for one, will withdraw my name from the subscription list. Perhaps a separate listserve dedicated to settling scores in Germany should be contemplated, so that those interested in this will have their own playpen. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL Mon Mar 16 18:56:13 2009 From: victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL (victor van Bijlert) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 09 19:56:13 +0100 Subject: time to change the tune In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085373.23782.658908044862489604.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1677 Lines: 53 I had already suggested as much, some days ago but all I harvested was criticism and a lesson to the effect that this list does not moderate. But obviously, this is necessary. Not because the subject of 'Nazi-indology'would not be appropriate as a topic to discuss here, but because the discussion deteriorates into mud-slinging and personal allegations and counter-allegations. Victor -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens Jan Houben Verzonden: maandag 16 maart 2009 16:54 Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Onderwerp: Re: time to change the tune It is sometimes easy to be carried away, but in order to protect the large majority of "good guys/girls" from this list and in order not to scare them away: Dominik's old rule of thumb "two warnings then out" (stemming from the early times of the "wild" indology list) should be announced, should be known to all list members and should be adhered to. Jan Houben On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 9:12 AM, wrote: > I find the use of the Indology list > by our colleagues in Germany to be > tiresome in the extreme and not > to accord very well with the purposes > for which Indology was established. > > If this continues much longer, I, for > one, will withdraw my name from the subscription list. > > Perhaps a separate listserve dedicated to > settling scores in Germany should be contemplated, > so that those interested in this will have > their own playpen. > > > Matthew T. Kapstein > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies > The University of Chicago Divinity School > > Directeur d'?tudes > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > From franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Mon Mar 16 22:22:48 2009 From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE (franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 09 23:22:48 +0100 Subject: Oldenberg In-Reply-To: <981159.272.qm@web8604.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227085376.23782.16872479303579473662.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 658 Lines: 21 As far as I know he was not a Jew. According to Stache-Rosen, Oldenberg was the son of a protestant clergyman. Best wishes Eli Franco Zitat von Dipak Bhattacharya : > Perhaps, I read somewhere that H.Oldenberg was Jew. It has remained > a mystery to me that he could still be?an Aryanist in the bad sense > of the term? The forces at play in pre-Nazi Europe and the odd > equations reached thereby are of course not well-known?to me. Or the > information was incorrect? > DB > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Tue Mar 17 03:50:15 2009 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 09 09:20:15 +0530 Subject: MBh. 2.54.22 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085380.23782.12917358587577961261.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1961 Lines: 58 As you've probably noticed, there seem to be a few other passages in the Mahaabhaarata (2.25:6, 2.25:19, 2.47:4, 3.79:24) in which it is clear that horses are meant. It seems, by the way, that tittirikalmaa.sa should be treated as one variety and not two, for there is a description of the king's stables in Har.sacarita 2 which begins with: atha vanaayujai.h , aara.t.tajai.h, kaambojai.h, bhaaradvaajai.h, sandhude"sajai.h, paarasiikai"s ca, "so.nai"s ca, "syaamai"s ca, "svetai"s ca, pi~njarai"s ca, haridbhi"s ca, tittirikalmaa.sai"s ca, pa~ncabhadrai"s ca, mallikaak.sai"s ca, k.rttikaapi~njarai"s ca, aayatanirmaa.msamukhai.h, anutka.takar.nako"sai.h,... tittirikalmaa.sa there is taken by Cowell and Thomas to mean "dappled like partridges", and this reflects the old commentary of "Sa"nkara (pp.99--100 of F?hrer's edition), who has remarks to make on some of the other horses too. The feminine form, tittirikalmaa.sii (describing a mare?) is mentioned in the Vaakyapadiiya. Dominic Goodall Pondicherry Centre, Ecole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient ("French School of Asian Studies"), P.O. Box 151, 16 & 19, Dumas Street, Pondicherry 605001 On 16 Mar 2009, at 16:01, Stella Sandahl wrote: > MBh. 22.54.22 says: azvAMs tittiri-kalmASAn gandharvAn ... dadau > CitrarathaH... > It seems to be that tittiri, kalmASa and gandharva could refer to > different breeds/kinds of horses. Renou understood it that way > (Anthologie sanscrite), > but he gives no reference to support this. > Nakula's AzvaZAstra (Thanjavur Sarasvati Mahal Series No. 56) has > no reference to breeds of horses either as far as I can discover. > So where can one find a clarification? Many thanks! > Stella Sandahl > > > -- > Professor Stella Sandahl > Department of East Asian Studies > 130 St. George St. room 14087 > Toronto, ON M5S 3H1 > ssandahl at sympatico.ca > stella.sandahl at utoronto.ca > Tel. (416) 978-4295 > Fax. (416) 978-5711 From victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL Tue Mar 17 14:39:50 2009 From: victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL (victor van Bijlert) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 09 15:39:50 +0100 Subject: Gruenendahl, German Indology and National Socialism (Was: No longer Language barriers --- financial barriers) In-Reply-To: <20090316035056.12334fj4o297tfgw@mail.uni-leipzig.de> Message-ID: <161227085383.23782.4224336754321680411.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 18300 Lines: 720 Although I did not want to continue this particular line of discussion, I feel tempted to highlight the passage below To be sure, Pollock?s statements and hypotheses are at times daring and sweeping, but they constitute the beginning of the exploration of this phase of the history of our discipline, all the more so as, more than sixty years after WWII, no German Indologist has attempted to undertake the task of coming to terms with Indology during this dark period of German history. In this sense, Gruenendahl?s announced monograph will be very welcome indeed. One only hopes that it will be less biased than his paper referred to above. It is my experience that even in the presentday context classical Indology seems to be occasionally or even unwillingly drawn into political discourses of the same ilk. National Socialism may be dead, there are still or again coming up, adherents of this ideology or of cognate authoritarian, anti-democratic, racist and elitist ideologies, who at the same time profess admiration for things Indian. I feel Indologists should know very well the kinds of circles they move in. But I may have the advantage of a longstanding interest in sociology, history and political philosophy, and of some firsthand experience with these matters. Victor van Bijlert -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Verzonden: maandag 16 maart 2009 3:51 Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Onderwerp: Gruenendahl, German Indology and National Socialism (Was: No longer Language barriers --- financial barriers) Quoting "Gruenendahl, Reinhold" : > Since Professor Franco indicated that he was too busy for proving his earlier > claims it would indeed be too much to ask him to substantiate his latest > charges. Even this very statement is a distortion or ?fabrication.? I never said or indicated that I am too busy to prove my claims. Dr. Gruenendahl asked for one example (?may I ask you to give one example??) and I gave him one example. He may not like the example, he may think that the example is no good, but he cannot (or should not) claim that I did not take the time to write to him. Further, I tried to take this discussion off the list, honestly thinking that ?everybody had enough of this.? But Gruenendahl knows better. The real reason why I do not want to discuss it on the list, he claims, is that I do not want to discuss the example in public (?I understand that this is the reason why he would rather not discuss it in public.?). Basically he accuses me of being dishonest. But this accusation is plainly absurd. We already discussed this example in public, and Gruenendahl knows it because he himself participated in the discussion. If anyone is interested, they can find the discussion in the archive of the German Indologie discussion group. Evidence for ad hominem argument and cheap psychological analysis was already given in the last message, but if it needs to be ?proved?, I quote: ?I cannot see who expects to gain from this, except in terms of attention - undeserved attention, in my view.? It is clear from the context that this statement refers to me. The most significant point, however, which should have a broader appeal, is Dr. Gruenendahl?s attempt to exonerate German Indology from its affiliation with National Socialism. I think the issue is important and want to discuss it in some detail, without, however, being exhaustive. The publication in question is Gruenendahl?s contribution to Gustav Roth?s Felicitation Volume, entitled ?Von der Indologie zum V?lkermord,? In U. H?sken, P. Kieffer-P?lz and A. Peters [eds.], Jaina-Itih?sa-Ratna. Festschrift f?r Gustav Roth zum 90. Geburtstag. Marburg 2006, pp. 209-236. Already when I first read it, I was dismayed not only by Gruenendahl?s occasionally spiteful criticism of Sheldon Pollock, but also by the way Gruenendahl misunderstands and misrepresents his sources, especially in his attempt to exonerate Frauwallner from the charge, made by Pollock, of having been affiliated with National Socialist ideology. Gruenendahl (p. 217) argues (and this is typical for his emotional style) that one would thoroughly misunderstand Pollock?s intentions if one would drag them down to the level of facts, which are a negligible quantity in the age of ?polyvalent? discourse. He states that Pollock does not use facts to determine reality, but resorts to strategic choices and interpretations of the materials to draw maximum attention to himself (!). Had I tried, I could not have found a better way to describe Gruenendahl?s own approach to the topic. I will illustrate the above with ?facts.? But let me first note Gruenendahl?s remarkable lack of sensitivity to the historical and political context. A racist or racialist statement made in Germany in 1939 or 1942 cannot be divorced from this context, and to argue, as Gruenendahl does (e.g., p. 232 and passim), that similar statements were already made by racists of previous generations (such as Gobineau, Renan, etc.) and that it is therefore not evident that these ideas (as expressed e.g., by Frauwallner in 1944) are associated with National Socialist ideology, is not only na?ve, but preposterous. Here are a few examples of how Gruenendahl twists his source material. Frauwallner (in 1944) approvingly quotes von Soden to the effect that only the Indo-Europeans, which are determined by the Nordic race, are capable of creating science properly speaking and states that ?on the basis of our investigations up to now we cannot but agree with this statement? (? ?da? Wis?sen?schaft im strengen Sinn des Wortes etwas ist, das nur von den von der nordischen Rasse bestimmten Indogermanen geschaffen werden konnte? (S. 556). Wir k?nnen dieser Behauptung auf Grund unserer bisherigen Betrachtungen nur beistimmen.?). Gruenendahl (p. 232) interprets this statement to mean that Frauwallner at least signalized some reserve in his endorsement of von Soden?s statement (?? einen Vorbehalt zumindest angedeutet?). This interpretation of a stereotypical expression (?auf Grund unserer bisherigen Betrachtungen?) is simply tendentious and farfetched. There is certainly nothing in this context to support it. Frauwallner?s confident perception of himself as a true pioneer of solid philological research into the history of Indian philosophy is misinterpreted by Gruenendahl (p. 231) to mean that Frauwallner stated that the relevant direction of Indological research (i.e., research that is programmatically determined by the aspect of race) was in its beginning?an unsuccessful attempt by Gruenendahl to show, on the alleged authority of Frauwallner himself, that Indologists up to this time had not yet followed this line of research. Furthermore, in his polemical zeal Gruenendahl misre?presents Frauwallner?s hypothesis of two distinct, racially conditioned historical phases of Indian philosophy and inverts Frauwallner?s judgement about the second period: he presents Frauwallner?s reference to the peak (occurring in the first half of the second millennium) of the development of Indian philosophy in its *second*, clearly inferior phase as the view that ?the mingling of the two races? was fruitful and even led to a new peak of its own kind of Indian philosophy (p. 229)! Gruenendahl seems to ignore that Frauwallner repeated his racist interpretation of Indian philosophy even after the war (and without any reservations) in his ?History of Indian Philosophy,? Vol. I, pp. 26-27. In this context, Frauwallner?s usage of the typical Nazi term ?Volksk?rper? (nation?s body) has to be noted. As is well known, the National Socialists thought of the German nation as a body to be kept healthy, clean and free from disease, obnoxious influences and parasites (such as minorities belonging to so-called inferior races). The same racist historical interpretation is repeated as late as 1959 in Frauwallner?s article ?Indische Philosophie.? This time at least he adds that a definitive statement about this, i.e., the racial background of the two developmental phases of Indian philosophy, seems ?premature? (verfr?ht). That Frauwallner was an anti-Semite is certainly not an unfounded inference by Pollock (as Gruenendahl claims on p. 233), but a well attested fact. Even though there are no direct anti-Semitic statements in Frauwallner?s writings, there are other sources that testify clearly to his anti-Semitism well after WW II (cf., for instance, the sources utilized by Jakob Stuchlik?s dissertation submitted to the University of Vienna in 2005 and his forthcoming monograph on the background of Frauwallner?s ?Aryan hypothesis? to be published by the Austrian Academy of Sciences). It is arbitrary and unacceptable to form a judgement on the basis of published Indological studies alone. Gruenendahl points out some differences between Frauwallner?s statements and those of Chamberlain (p. 228) and the agreement of the former with Gobineau?s positions (p. 229), but fails to indicate Frauwallner?s more immediate sources of inspiration. One such source is the renowned Vedic and Bud?dhist scholar Hermann Oldenberg, whom Frauwallner admired; some of the former?s statements seem to have been of direct inspiration to him. I will quote from this source below because I believe that it is not well known and interesting reading (Die Literatur des alten Indien, pp. 132-133). More details on the relationship between Frauwallner?s work on the history of Indian philosophy and his National Socialist ideology are available in a preface by Karin Preisendanz and myself to a forthcoming reprint of Frauwallner?s Philosophie des Buddhismus. As for Gruenendahl?s confident statement that there is evidently no ideological consensus between Walther W?st and Ludwig Alsdorf (p. 213), and his denial that racist ideology did not at all affect Alsdorf?s scholarly work (p. 225), compare the first chapter of Alsdorf?s ?Indien? in the Weltpolitische B?cherei (supervised by Alfred Rosenberg himself), second edition, Deutscher Verlag Berlin, 1942, especially pp. 12-13. To be sure, Pollock?s statements and hypotheses are at times daring and sweeping, but they constitute the beginning of the exploration of this phase of the history of our discipline, all the more so as, more than sixty years after WWII, no German Indologist has attempted to undertake the task of coming to terms with Indology during this dark period of German history. In this sense, Gruenendahl?s announced monograph will be very welcome indeed. One only hopes that it will be less biased than his paper referred to above. With best wishes, Eli Franco P.S. For Prof. Slaje?s eloquent praise of Gruenendahl?s work and method, cf. his message to the list dated January 9, 2007. H. Oldenberg, Die Literatur des alten Indien, 2nd ed., Stuttgart 1923, pp. 132-133: ?Above all there were probably influences [by the indi?genous people of India] that worked in a very pro?found way which we can only surmise: through the gradually progressing transformation of the blood, which means a transformation of the Soul, through the constant influx of new quantities of the blood of savages and semi-savages into the veins of those who still called themselves Aryans. Zeus and Apollo continued to rule as long as there were Greek gods because the Greek nation remained the same. Indra and Agni had to leave the field to other gods because the Indian nation had become a different one. For these minds, in which an inscrutable jumble of anta?gonistic powers, intertwined with each other, unleashed at each other, was at work, the Vedic gods were much too guile?lessly simple; their being was all too easily exhausted. They had come from the North: now tropical gods were needed. These were hardly of fixed shapes any longer; they were whole tangles of shapes, bodies from which oozed heads upon heads, arms upon arms, multi?tudes of hands holding multitudes of attributes, clubs and lotus flowers: voluptuous, sombre and grandiose poetry every?where, exuberance and blurred shapelessness: a terrible disaster for the fine arts? (?Vor allem werden jene Ein?fl?sse (scil. der Urbewohner Indiens) in einer tiefsten Weise gewirkt haben, die wir nur ahnen k?nnen: durch die allm?hlich fortschreitende Wandlung des Blutes, die eine Wandlung der Seele bedeutet, durch das be?st?ndige Ein?str?men neuer Mengen von Wilden- und Halb?wil?den?blut in die Adern derer, die sich noch immer Arier nann?ten. Zeus und Apollon haben ihre Herrschaft be?halten, solange es griechische G?tter gab, denn das Grie?chenvolk blieb dasselbe. Indra und Agni mussten andern G?ttern das Feld r?umen, denn das indische Volk war ein andres ge?worden. F?r diese Geister, in denen un?er?gr?ndliche Mischungen widerstreitender Kr?fte, mit?einander ver?schlungen, gegeneinander entfesselt, ihr Spiel trieben, waren die Vedag?tter allzu kindlich einfach; gar zu leicht war ihr Wesen ausgesch?pft. Sie waren von Norden ge?kommen: jetzt brauchte man tropische G?tter. Es waren kaum mehr feste Gestalten; es waren ganze Gestal?ten?kn?uel, K?rper, aus denen K?pfe ?ber K?pfe, Arme ?ber Arme hervor?quollen, Mengen von H?nden, die Mengen von Attributen, Keulen und Lotusblumen halten: ?berall ?ppige und d?stere, grandiose Poesie, ?berf?lle und ver?schwommene Formlosigkeit: Ein b?ses Verh?ngnis f?r die bildende Kunst.?) > [A pedantic correction: We met in Berlin on one or two occasions, and I > remember them as rather pleasant.] > > > > Reinhold Gr?nendahl > > > > ________________________________ > > Von: Indology im Auftrag von franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE > Gesendet: Sa 14.03.2009 23:47 > An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Betreff: No longer Language barriers --- financial barriers > > > > I guess I was wrong; unfortunately, not everybody had enough of this. > So here we go for one more round, hopefully the last. I apologize for > responding a bit late; I was busy during the last few days. > > Dr. Gruenendahl is right. Two times are not enough to establish a > pattern. Perhaps next time he will side with me against a point made > by Prof. Slaje, but I somehow doubt it. > > What I object to, of course, is not the fact that he takes sides in a > discussion, but to his aggressive manner, malicious distortion of what > I said, his use of ad hominem arguments, and cheap psychological > analysis of the type ?Franco writes because he wants to draw attention > to himself, undeserved attention.? In the same vein I could say, e.g., > ?Gruenendahl?s offensiveness is only due to some personal frustration, > deserved frustration.? However, I do not want to regress to > Kindergarten level. > > Some of you have voiced the concern that the list has become a place > for personal and private battles. I can assure you that there was > absolutely nothing personal in my remark about the Glasenapp > Foundation. Furthermore, Dr. Gruenendahl and I do not know each other; > at least I do not remember ever meeting him. > > Further, I do not think that Dr. Gruenendahl *purposefully* distorts > what I said, but that his vision is blurred by some agenda. The same > kind of distortion, at times even spiteful criticism he displays in > some of his published work, notably in his attempt to exonerate German > Indology from the charge of having been affiliated with National > Socialism. There was a discussion about this last year on the list. > > With best wishes, > Eli Franco > > Quoting "Gruenendahl, Reinhold" : > >> On 9 Mar 2009 at 21:09, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE wrote: >> >>> I will try to refresh Dr. Gruenendahl's memory off the list. I am sure >> >>> everybody had enough of this by now. >> >> >> >> Apologies to everybody who has had enough of this. >> >> I thank Professor Franco for his kind assistance in refreshing my memory. > As >> I see it, the significance of the case he referred to offline lies not so >> much in my agreement with Walter Slaje (actually I had endorsed his >> forwarding of third-party information), but in my perceived disagreement > with >> Professor Franco, who was not altogether disinterested in the case and its >> decision before a German court. I understand that this is the reason why he >> would rather not discuss it in public. >> >> So we still are where we were yesterday: I would have to consider Professor >> Franco's remark a mere fabrication unless he comes up with evidence that is >> presentable to the public, preferably a case in which he had no personal >> interest, if that isn't asking too much. It goes without saying that at > least >> one more example would be needed to get anywhere near the > "whenever"-pattern >> insinuated in his remark. >> >> Talking about patterns, there is another one that seems all too familiar: > "I >> have made my point, and now that I have been asked to prove it I am sure >> everyone had enough of it." >> >> Reinhold Gr?nendahl >> >> ***************************************** >> >> On 9 Mar 2009 at 17:15, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE wrote: >> >>> It is touching to see how whenever Prof. Slaje is involved in a debate >> >>> Dr. Gruenendahl comes to his rescue. >> >>> Best wishes >> >>> EF >> >> >> >> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Tue Mar 17 16:08:22 2009 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 09 17:08:22 +0100 Subject: Gruenendahl, German Indology and National Socialism (Was: No longer Language barriers --- financial barriers) In-Reply-To: <8BC98CEEFF7142C1BE592127FAF386DE@VICPC> Message-ID: <161227085386.23782.16937519229039698184.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 449 Lines: 17 Dear Dr van Bijlert, May I draw your attention to my posting of yesterday, in which I asked all members of this forum to refrain from discussing this topic for at least a week. Possibly you did not see it. I must insist upon this restriction, for the sake of this forum as a useful arena for discussion of academic matters. My posting of yesterday can be checked here: http://tinyurl.com/d7pm52 -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk INDOLOGY committee From axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE Wed Mar 18 10:34:54 2009 From: axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE (Axel Michaels) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 09 10:34:54 +0000 Subject: Fr John K. Locke, SJ passed away Message-ID: <161227085390.23782.5625582366142277355.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 418 Lines: 7 As reported by Nepalese media, Father John K. Locke, S, passed away early this morning. He spent almost his whole life in Nepal and will be remembered by all scholars of Nepalese history and culture by his insightful and detailed writings, inter alia the monographs "Karunamaya, the Cult of Avalokiteshvara-Matsyendranath in the Valley of Nepal" and "Buddhist Monasteries of Nepal". Best greetings, Axel Michaels From kiparsky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU Thu Mar 19 03:51:06 2009 From: kiparsky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU (Paul Kiparsky) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 09 20:51:06 -0700 Subject: Language barriers --- financial barriers In-Reply-To: <001901c9a826$fefff260$0301a8c0@Simonpoot> Message-ID: <161227085396.23782.7344665678677068111.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2614 Lines: 54 If you want your work to be accessible to linguistically disjoint audiences, why write it up in just one language? In smaller European countries it is, or at any rate used to be, usual to publish one's work both in English (or German) in an international journal, and locally in the national language. For English-speaking Indologists, the comparable practice would be to publish both an English version in an international journal or book, and a Hindi, Tamil, or Sanskrit version in India. As Jan Houben reported here on March 3, summaries of the talks at the recent Third International Sanskrit Computational Linguistics Symposium were made available both in English and in Sanskrit. The traditional philologists and pandits who attended the conference welcomed the Sanskrit version as a step to overcoming the language barrier and establishing mutual understanding with English-speaking Indologists and computational linguists. Paul Kiparsky On Mar 18, 2009, at 5:09 PM, Simon Brodbeck wrote: > On Friday 6 March 2009, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: "The more > languages one knows, the better." > > Few would disagree. But that is from the perspective of the > consumer or recipient of texts. Active researchers are also > producers of texts, and must produce them in one language or > another. From this perspective, one's work will be inaccessible to > those who lack facility with the language in which it is presented; > and the choice of language is therefore a choice of audience. > > On the issue of financial barriers, it is an ongoing source of > embarrassment and bemusement to myself and many of my > contemporaries that the journals and publishers we have been led to > believe are most highly esteemed by our institutional elders (in > whose hands our careers lie) tend to be those which most of our > desired audience cannot access. One cannot but suppose that, as a > result, most of the discourse that there is on indological subjects > occurs in contexts systematically ignorant of certain recent > discoveries in indology. > > The UK Arts and Humanities Research Council has been funding a > higher and higher fraction of British indological research in > recent years. My perception is that the AHRC are increasingly > concerned to ensure that the projects they fund have outputs > accessible beyond the university sector. Perhaps, then, pretty > soon, projects whose principal written outputs are not to be made > freely available online will simply not be publicly funded. > > Simon Brodbeck > Cardiff University From brodbecksp at CF.AC.UK Thu Mar 19 00:09:38 2009 From: brodbecksp at CF.AC.UK (Simon Brodbeck) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 00:09:38 +0000 Subject: Language barriers --- financial barriers Message-ID: <161227085393.23782.7612264455852030418.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1504 Lines: 31 On Friday 6 March 2009, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: "The more languages one knows, the better." Few would disagree. But that is from the perspective of the consumer or recipient of texts. Active researchers are also producers of texts, and must produce them in one language or another. From this perspective, one's work will be inaccessible to those who lack facility with the language in which it is presented; and the choice of language is therefore a choice of audience. On the issue of financial barriers, it is an ongoing source of embarrassment and bemusement to myself and many of my contemporaries that the journals and publishers we have been led to believe are most highly esteemed by our institutional elders (in whose hands our careers lie) tend to be those which most of our desired audience cannot access. One cannot but suppose that, as a result, most of the discourse that there is on indological subjects occurs in contexts systematically ignorant of certain recent discoveries in indology. The UK Arts and Humanities Research Council has been funding a higher and higher fraction of British indological research in recent years. My perception is that the AHRC are increasingly concerned to ensure that the projects they fund have outputs accessible beyond the university sector. Perhaps, then, pretty soon, projects whose principal written outputs are not to be made freely available online will simply not be publicly funded. Simon Brodbeck Cardiff University From ocattedra at YAHOO.COM.AR Thu Mar 19 16:26:03 2009 From: ocattedra at YAHOO.COM.AR (olivia cattedra) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 09:26:03 -0700 Subject: about Sanatsujata in spanish Message-ID: <161227085451.23782.18069121788287306968.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 333 Lines: 23 dear Colleagues Please, I would like to know if there is some other translation of the Sanatsujatiya in spanish, besides the one I published in 2007 in Buenos Aires, thank you very much, Prof. Olivia Cattedra FASTA - Argentina Yahoo! Cocina Recetas pr?cticas y comida saludable http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/ From mnstorm at MAC.COM Thu Mar 19 05:02:49 2009 From: mnstorm at MAC.COM (Mary Storm) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 10:32:49 +0530 Subject: Bangles Message-ID: <161227085400.23782.1292912477919479482.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 708 Lines: 32 Dear Indologists, I am writing on behalf of a student who is doing a research project on the place of bangles in Indian society. She is looking at images (plenty, not a problem!) and she is also searching for poetic references (not so successful). I hope that one of you could offer up some possible poetic references. I can only think of the poem by Sarojini Naidu. Any help would be most appreciated. Thank you so much for your thoughts! Mary Mary Storm, Ph.D. Academic Director North India Arts and Culture and Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture SIT Study Abroad School for International Training www.sit.edu Mobile +91 98106 98003 F-301 Lado Sarai 2nd Fl New Delhi 110030 India From brendan.gillon at MCGILL.CA Thu Mar 19 15:17:35 2009 From: brendan.gillon at MCGILL.CA (Brendan Gillon) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 11:17:35 -0400 Subject: Classical heritages In-Reply-To: <20090319150915.A45ABBBC022@asmx5.McGill.CA> Message-ID: <161227085433.23782.17950609330706720270.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 826 Lines: 28 Dear colleagues, I am hoping that someone might be able to direct me to a source which might give me a rough idea of the comparison of the classical heritage of India versus the classical heritage of Europe from Greece and Rome. What I have in mind is something like a first order approximation of the relative sizes of the literature, the manuscripts and their cataloging. Clearly, this must be done for some arbitrarily chosen cut off date. Best wishes, Brendan Gillon -- Brendan S. Gillon email: brendan.gillon at mcgill.ca Department of Linguistics McGill University tel.: 001 514 398 4868 1085, Avenue Docteur-Penfield Montreal, Quebec fax.: 001 514 398 7088 H3A 1A7 CANADA webpage: http://www.mcgill.ca/linguistics/people/gillon/ From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Thu Mar 19 16:29:17 2009 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 11:29:17 -0500 Subject: Translations into Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227085454.23782.11867404163113472840.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 414 Lines: 15 One might also mention the Tibetan tradition that Sa skya Pa.n.dita's (1182-1251) great pramaa.na work, the Tshad ma rigs gter (Pramaa.nayukanidhi), was translated into Sanskrit, though, as with the Daodejing, there is no surviving evidence. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI Thu Mar 19 09:49:18 2009 From: asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI (Asko Parpola) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 11:49:18 +0200 Subject: Bangles In-Reply-To: <6D4A4C70-6C88-4D01-AE7D-E8B1B04E4556@mac.com> Message-ID: <161227085407.23782.2053132802360178194.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1012 Lines: 45 On Harappan and later Indian bangle cult see my book "Deciphering the Indus script" (Cambridge UP 1994), p. 225ff. With best wishes, Asko Parpola Professor emeritus of Indology University of Helsinki Quoting "Mary Storm" : > Dear Indologists, > > I am writing on behalf of a student who is doing a research project > on the place of bangles in Indian society. She is looking at images > (plenty, not a problem!) and she is also searching for poetic > references (not so successful). I hope that one of you could offer > up some possible poetic references. I can only think of the poem by > Sarojini Naidu. > > Any help would be most appreciated. > > Thank you so much for your thoughts! > > Mary > > > Mary Storm, Ph.D. > Academic Director > North India Arts and Culture > and > Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture > SIT Study Abroad > School for International Training > www.sit.edu > > Mobile +91 98106 98003 > F-301 Lado Sarai > 2nd Fl > New Delhi 110030 India > > From toke_knudsen at MAC.COM Thu Mar 19 17:22:10 2009 From: toke_knudsen at MAC.COM (Toke Lindegaard Knudsen) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 13:22:10 -0400 Subject: Classical heritages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085466.23782.5613519741173792314.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 597 Lines: 17 On Mar 19, 2009, at 12:56 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Further to Richard's comments, I heard David Pingree say in > conversation that there might be 30 million Sanskrit manuscripts in > the world today, if one took into account all the MSS in private > collections. Unfortunately, I never asked him how he got that > figure (did anyone else hear this estimate from him?). I heard that figure from him as well. In fact, he put it in writing once in a personal letter to me. Unfortunately, I don't know where he got that figure from either. Sincerely, Toke Lindegaard Knudsen From sellmers at GMX.DE Thu Mar 19 12:23:47 2009 From: sellmers at GMX.DE (Sven Sellmer) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 13:23:47 +0100 Subject: Translations into Sanskrit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085414.23782.4626579440184728454.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 676 Lines: 25 Dear Colleagues, lately I was asked about early translations into Sanskrit and noticed that this is quite an interesting question I know little about. Is anybody aware of articles or books on this topic? In particular, I would be curious to learn about the earliest translations into Sanskrit of texts originally composed in languages others than Middle Indo-Aryan ones (as only these I would consider translations in the full sense). Best wishes, Sven Sellmer ************************************ Dr. Sven Sellmer Adam Mickiewicz University Institute of Oriental Studies South Asia Unit ul. 28 czerwca 1956 r. nr 198 61-485 Pozna? POLAND sven at amu.edu.pl From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Thu Mar 19 12:25:39 2009 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 13:25:39 +0100 Subject: Legal constraints (la "Loi Toubon") [Re: Language barriers --- financial barriers In-Reply-To: <965fdc5f0903190147k465eae67p301d2276bdba600e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227085417.23782.16255106296829666257.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6180 Lines: 141 As a contribution to the debate, I would like to mention another parameter, namely the legal constraints that vary from country to country. It is (in normal conditions) against the law to write a Ph.D. thesis in English if you study at a French university. See the following link: where you will find the "Article 11", of the "LOI n? 94-665 du 4 ao?t 1994 relative ? l'emploi de la langue fran?aise" (known as "Loi Toubon") which says: "La langue de l'enseignement, des examens et concours, ainsi que des th?ses et m?moires dans les ?tablissements publics et priv?s d'enseignement est le fran?ais, sauf exceptions justifi?es par les n?cessit?s de l'enseignement des langues et cultures r?gionales ou ?trang?res ou lorsque les enseignants sont des professeurs associ?s ou invit?s ?trangers." I have heard that in Germany a Ph.D. thesis can be written in English, but I would like to have confirmation of that fact. I am under the impression that in Italy, a Ph.D. thesis must be in italian. What is the situation in India? Is it possible to write a Ph.D. thesis in Sanskrit? The consequence of the French legal constraints is that a French Ph.D. thesis in the field of Indology has to be translated into English before it can hope to reach an international audience (and translation into Sanskrit, or Tamil, can probably only be viewed as a third step). Of course, there are people in France who realize that this situation is problematic, but there are other people who fight strongly against any change. -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS, Universit? Paris-Diderot Paris 7) veeranarayana Pandurangi a ?crit : > Certainly, I welcome prof. Kiparsky's suggestion. > > It is what suggested by me there in hyderabad seminar. What I pointed is > that Prof. Kiparsky, prof. Houben, prof. Stall and very few others have > contributed very much grammatical tradition of panini, on the subject that > prof. Houben spoke there. But most of these researches are in english, which > is mostly onknown to most of the very good traditional Samskrita scholars > who fortunatley still are keeping alive the panini's tradition. simlar is > the case of other shastras still rigorously studied in India, Nyaya, > Vyakarana, Mimamsa, Vedanta, Sahitya. [...] > > > Hence those writing in socalled international language i.e. English should > also publish in samskrita (not sanskrit) and technical language that > includes and that is original to paninian tradition, then the intended > result can be acheived. people should be made aware of these things. Many of > you may know oldtimer pandita manners very well while visiting india. > > [....] > > Similarly people should practice writing in sanskrit. Sure I know that will > have their no impact on their career in US universities and elsewhere, but > then english writing will have no result though writer may become profesor. > > I dont say it is solely the fault of people writing in english or language > itself, the sin is shared by Pandits also by not responding to these > writngs. but then there come all the barriers. we have a strike a balance to > overcome it. By writing in Samskrita one will only contribute more to > language he studies, and nothing udesired thing will happen. > > This is what I spoke in Hyderabad. > > It is upto the scholars to workout. > veeranarayana > > > On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Paul Kiparsky > wrote: > > >> If you want your work to be accessible to linguistically disjoint >> audiences, why write it up in just one language? In smaller European >> countries it is, or at any rate used to be, usual to publish one's work both >> in English (or German) in an international journal, and locally in the >> national language. For English-speaking Indologists, the comparable >> practice would be to publish both an English version in an international >> journal or book, and a Hindi, Tamil, or Sanskrit version in India. As Jan >> Houben reported here on March 3, summaries of the talks at the recent Third >> International Sanskrit Computational Linguistics Symposium were made >> available both in English and in Sanskrit. The traditional philologists and >> pandits who attended the conference welcomed the Sanskrit version as a step >> to overcoming the language barrier and establishing mutual understanding >> with English-speaking Indologists and computational linguists. >> >> Paul Kiparsky >> >> >> >> On Mar 18, 2009, at 5:09 PM, Simon Brodbeck wrote: >> >> On Friday 6 March 2009, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: "The more languages one >> >>> knows, the better." >>> >>> Few would disagree. But that is from the perspective of the consumer or >>> recipient of texts. Active researchers are also producers of texts, and must >>> produce them in one language or another. From this perspective, one's work >>> will be inaccessible to those who lack facility with the language in which >>> it is presented; and the choice of language is therefore a choice of >>> audience. >>> >>> On the issue of financial barriers, it is an ongoing source of >>> embarrassment and bemusement to myself and many of my contemporaries that >>> the journals and publishers we have been led to believe are most highly >>> esteemed by our institutional elders (in whose hands our careers lie) tend >>> to be those which most of our desired audience cannot access. One cannot but >>> suppose that, as a result, most of the discourse that there is on >>> indological subjects occurs in contexts systematically ignorant of certain >>> recent discoveries in indology. >>> >>> The UK Arts and Humanities Research Council has been funding a higher and >>> higher fraction of British indological research in recent years. My >>> perception is that the AHRC are increasingly concerned to ensure that the >>> projects they fund have outputs accessible beyond the university sector. >>> Perhaps, then, pretty soon, projects whose principal written outputs are not >>> to be made freely available online will simply not be publicly funded. >>> >>> Simon Brodbeck >>> Cardiff University >>> >>> > > > From veerankp at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 19 08:47:17 2009 From: veerankp at GMAIL.COM (veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 14:17:17 +0530 Subject: Language barriers --- financial barriers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085403.23782.963061868516744149.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6281 Lines: 128 Certainly, I welcome prof. Kiparsky's suggestion. It is what suggested by me there in hyderabad seminar. What I pointed is that Prof. Kiparsky, prof. Houben, prof. Stall and very few others have contributed very much grammatical tradition of panini, on the subject that prof. Houben spoke there. But most of these researches are in english, which is mostly onknown to most of the very good traditional Samskrita scholars who fortunatley still are keeping alive the panini's tradition. simlar is the case of other shastras still rigorously studied in India, Nyaya, Vyakarana, Mimamsa, Vedanta, Sahitya. How many peple have studied Prof. Gershheimer's shaktivada translation in french? who has reveiwed it? what about Wada's tranlsation of siddhantalakshana? what about Ingalls' Vyaptipacaka? many more cases are there. Unless many of these people accept or atleast discuss what Prof. Kiparsky or some other has said, how it can be a siddhanta? or what result it will produce? since there are very few schloars in west who understand all these intricate issues; may be 10-15. I may also be wrong, but considering the recent paninian and Nyaya bibliography it seems to be true. People should be allowed to know what you have written. *Hence the fact remains that Prof. Kiparsky is still unknown to Paninians. and similarly if somebody criticises Kiparsky in sanskrit thesis *(*It happened with a student who worked under Prof. KV Ramakrishnamacharyulu on his Ph.D, and it happened only because of Prof. KV Ramakrishnamacharyulu*) kiparsky does not come to know it. *This is the barrier*. Many of the recent samskrita works still not catalogued in even Karl potter bibliography. what this means?. it may be a fault of indian people not to have catalogued it. but then what Karl potter bibliography is doing? no samskrita papers published in the journals of samskrita universities are valued catalogued there. This is the communication gap. Hence those writing in socalled international language i.e. English should also publish in samskrita (not sanskrit) and technical language that includes and that is original to paninian tradition, then the intended result can be acheived. people should be made aware of these things. Many of you may know oldtimer pandita manners very well while visiting india. That was what planned and executed, once in 1983, by prof. Dayakrishna when the russlian theory of preposition was traslated into sanskrit and sent to many repute scholars including Prof. Badarinatha Shukla et all, well in advance, and then make them discuss that thing. Outcome is published in "Samvada" ICPR, 1991. That is how Dayakrishan became aware of the indian naiyayika tradition and tried to do something for that. Similarly people should practice writing in sanskrit. Sure I know that will have their no impact on their career in US universities and elsewhere, but then english writing will have no result though writer may become profesor. I dont say it is solely the fault of people writing in english or language itself, the sin is shared by Pandits also by not responding to these writngs. but then there come all the barriers. we have a strike a balance to overcome it. By writing in Samskrita one will only contribute more to language he studies, and nothing udesired thing will happen. This is what I spoke in Hyderabad. It is upto the scholars to workout. veeranarayana On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Paul Kiparsky wrote: > If you want your work to be accessible to linguistically disjoint > audiences, why write it up in just one language? In smaller European > countries it is, or at any rate used to be, usual to publish one's work both > in English (or German) in an international journal, and locally in the > national language. For English-speaking Indologists, the comparable > practice would be to publish both an English version in an international > journal or book, and a Hindi, Tamil, or Sanskrit version in India. As Jan > Houben reported here on March 3, summaries of the talks at the recent Third > International Sanskrit Computational Linguistics Symposium were made > available both in English and in Sanskrit. The traditional philologists and > pandits who attended the conference welcomed the Sanskrit version as a step > to overcoming the language barrier and establishing mutual understanding > with English-speaking Indologists and computational linguists. > > Paul Kiparsky > > > > On Mar 18, 2009, at 5:09 PM, Simon Brodbeck wrote: > > On Friday 6 March 2009, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: "The more languages one >> knows, the better." >> >> Few would disagree. But that is from the perspective of the consumer or >> recipient of texts. Active researchers are also producers of texts, and must >> produce them in one language or another. From this perspective, one's work >> will be inaccessible to those who lack facility with the language in which >> it is presented; and the choice of language is therefore a choice of >> audience. >> >> On the issue of financial barriers, it is an ongoing source of >> embarrassment and bemusement to myself and many of my contemporaries that >> the journals and publishers we have been led to believe are most highly >> esteemed by our institutional elders (in whose hands our careers lie) tend >> to be those which most of our desired audience cannot access. One cannot but >> suppose that, as a result, most of the discourse that there is on >> indological subjects occurs in contexts systematically ignorant of certain >> recent discoveries in indology. >> >> The UK Arts and Humanities Research Council has been funding a higher and >> higher fraction of British indological research in recent years. My >> perception is that the AHRC are increasingly concerned to ensure that the >> projects they fund have outputs accessible beyond the university sector. >> Perhaps, then, pretty soon, projects whose principal written outputs are not >> to be made freely available online will simply not be publicly funded. >> >> Simon Brodbeck >> Cardiff University >> > -- Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi Head, Dept of Darshanas, Yoganandacharya Bhavan, Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026. From avandergeer at PLANET.NL Thu Mar 19 13:37:44 2009 From: avandergeer at PLANET.NL (Alexandra Vandergeer) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 14:37:44 +0100 Subject: Legal constraints (la "Loi Toubon") [Re: Language barriers --- financial barriers Message-ID: <161227085424.23782.7728230498361192140.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6639 Lines: 154 Same is valid for Greek universities: PhD theses should be written in Greek. There is, however, a change, it is under certain circumstances allowed to write in English (but with permission from all committee members, so forget it). Alexandra ________________________________ Van: Indology namens Jean-Luc Chevillard Verzonden: do 19-3-2009 14:25 Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Onderwerp: Legal constraints (la "Loi Toubon") [Re: Language barriers --- financial barriers As a contribution to the debate, I would like to mention another parameter, namely the legal constraints that vary from country to country. It is (in normal conditions) against the law to write a Ph.D. thesis in English if you study at a French university. See the following link: where you will find the "Article 11", of the "LOI n? 94-665 du 4 ao?t 1994 relative ? l'emploi de la langue fran?aise" (known as "Loi Toubon") which says: "La langue de l'enseignement, des examens et concours, ainsi que des th?ses et m?moires dans les ?tablissements publics et priv?s d'enseignement est le fran?ais, sauf exceptions justifi?es par les n?cessit?s de l'enseignement des langues et cultures r?gionales ou ?trang?res ou lorsque les enseignants sont des professeurs associ?s ou invit?s ?trangers." I have heard that in Germany a Ph.D. thesis can be written in English, but I would like to have confirmation of that fact. I am under the impression that in Italy, a Ph.D. thesis must be in italian. What is the situation in India? Is it possible to write a Ph.D. thesis in Sanskrit? The consequence of the French legal constraints is that a French Ph.D. thesis in the field of Indology has to be translated into English before it can hope to reach an international audience (and translation into Sanskrit, or Tamil, can probably only be viewed as a third step). Of course, there are people in France who realize that this situation is problematic, but there are other people who fight strongly against any change. -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS, Universit? Paris-Diderot Paris 7) veeranarayana Pandurangi a ?crit : > Certainly, I welcome prof. Kiparsky's suggestion. > > It is what suggested by me there in hyderabad seminar. What I pointed is > that Prof. Kiparsky, prof. Houben, prof. Stall and very few others have > contributed very much grammatical tradition of panini, on the subject that > prof. Houben spoke there. But most of these researches are in english, which > is mostly onknown to most of the very good traditional Samskrita scholars > who fortunatley still are keeping alive the panini's tradition. simlar is > the case of other shastras still rigorously studied in India, Nyaya, > Vyakarana, Mimamsa, Vedanta, Sahitya. [...] > > > Hence those writing in socalled international language i.e. English should > also publish in samskrita (not sanskrit) and technical language that > includes and that is original to paninian tradition, then the intended > result can be acheived. people should be made aware of these things. Many of > you may know oldtimer pandita manners very well while visiting india. > > [....] > > Similarly people should practice writing in sanskrit. Sure I know that will > have their no impact on their career in US universities and elsewhere, but > then english writing will have no result though writer may become profesor. > > I dont say it is solely the fault of people writing in english or language > itself, the sin is shared by Pandits also by not responding to these > writngs. but then there come all the barriers. we have a strike a balance to > overcome it. By writing in Samskrita one will only contribute more to > language he studies, and nothing udesired thing will happen. > > This is what I spoke in Hyderabad. > > It is upto the scholars to workout. > veeranarayana > > > On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Paul Kiparsky > wrote: > > >> If you want your work to be accessible to linguistically disjoint >> audiences, why write it up in just one language? In smaller European >> countries it is, or at any rate used to be, usual to publish one's work both >> in English (or German) in an international journal, and locally in the >> national language. For English-speaking Indologists, the comparable >> practice would be to publish both an English version in an international >> journal or book, and a Hindi, Tamil, or Sanskrit version in India. As Jan >> Houben reported here on March 3, summaries of the talks at the recent Third >> International Sanskrit Computational Linguistics Symposium were made >> available both in English and in Sanskrit. The traditional philologists and >> pandits who attended the conference welcomed the Sanskrit version as a step >> to overcoming the language barrier and establishing mutual understanding >> with English-speaking Indologists and computational linguists. >> >> Paul Kiparsky >> >> >> >> On Mar 18, 2009, at 5:09 PM, Simon Brodbeck wrote: >> >> On Friday 6 March 2009, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: "The more languages one >> >>> knows, the better." >>> >>> Few would disagree. But that is from the perspective of the consumer or >>> recipient of texts. Active researchers are also producers of texts, and must >>> produce them in one language or another. From this perspective, one's work >>> will be inaccessible to those who lack facility with the language in which >>> it is presented; and the choice of language is therefore a choice of >>> audience. >>> >>> On the issue of financial barriers, it is an ongoing source of >>> embarrassment and bemusement to myself and many of my contemporaries that >>> the journals and publishers we have been led to believe are most highly >>> esteemed by our institutional elders (in whose hands our careers lie) tend >>> to be those which most of our desired audience cannot access. One cannot but >>> suppose that, as a result, most of the discourse that there is on >>> indological subjects occurs in contexts systematically ignorant of certain >>> recent discoveries in indology. >>> >>> The UK Arts and Humanities Research Council has been funding a higher and >>> higher fraction of British indological research in recent years. My >>> perception is that the AHRC are increasingly concerned to ensure that the >>> projects they fund have outputs accessible beyond the university sector. >>> Perhaps, then, pretty soon, projects whose principal written outputs are not >>> to be made freely available online will simply not be publicly funded. >>> >>> Simon Brodbeck >>> Cardiff University >>> >>> > > > From axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE Thu Mar 19 15:29:51 2009 From: axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE (Axel Michaels) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 15:29:51 +0000 Subject: Scholarships Message-ID: <161227085440.23782.8660526458868775159.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 841 Lines: 15 A new Round of Applications for 16 Scholarships in the PhD/Doctoral Programmes of the Graduate Programm of Transcultural Studies (GPTS) of the Excellence Cluster "Asia and Europe in a Global Context" at tHeidelberg University has been opened. The Scholarships will start in the Winter Term 2009/2010. Students of Indology with a transcultural interest are also invited to apply. You are asked to register before you can fill in the application form. Only applications submitted via the online application system will be considered. Applications by mail or e-mail will not be eligible. Deadline for Application is May 1st 2009. For further information see: http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/Plone/graduate-programme Kindly forward this information to students who are qualified and interested. Best greetings, Axel Michaels From richard.gombrich at BALLIOL.OX.AC.UK Thu Mar 19 15:38:16 2009 From: richard.gombrich at BALLIOL.OX.AC.UK (Richard Gombrich) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 15:38:16 +0000 Subject: Classical heritages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085446.23782.130410174115443944.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2243 Lines: 55 Dear colleagues, I remember that the late Prof. David Pingree once said to me in conversation that there were about 30,000 surviving mss of ancient Greek, a smaller number of Latin, and several million of Sanskrit. The trouble is, of course, that one is never comparing like with like. Almost all the surviving Sanskrit mss have been produced within the last millennium; the vast majority, indeed, within the last half millennium. The production of mss in Latin and Greek was coming to an end 500 years ago, and I believe that virtually no texts physically survive from classical antiquity. Inscriptions of course are negligible in physical quantity compared to the kind of texts I mean. If we are talking of surviving texts rather than physical survivals, Julius Caesar, by burning the library of Alexandria, deprived us of a large part of our potential classical heritage. Even so, I fancy that the bulk of surviving Sanskrit texts would be far larger than the bulk of Latin and Greek texts combined, including those we know to be lost. True, much depends on the cutoff date you choose for Sanskrit. However, Vedic and Epic literature alone, before we even get to what we normally think of as Sanskrit classical literature, are of formidable size. Richard Gombrich On 19 Mar 2009, at 15:17, Brendan Gillon wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > I am hoping that someone might be able to direct me to a source > which might give me a rough idea of the comparison of the classical > heritage of India versus the classical heritage of Europe from > Greece and Rome. What I have in mind is something like a first order > approximation of the relative sizes of the literature, the > manuscripts and their cataloging. Clearly, this must be done for > some arbitrarily chosen cut off date. > > Best wishes, > > Brendan Gillon > > > -- > > Brendan S. Gillon email: > brendan.gillon at mcgill.ca > Department of Linguistics > McGill University tel.: 001 514 398 4868 > 1085, Avenue Docteur-Penfield > Montreal, Quebec fax.: 001 514 398 7088 H3A > 1A7 CANADA > > webpage: http://www.mcgill.ca/linguistics/people/gillon/ From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Thu Mar 19 14:51:56 2009 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 15:51:56 +0100 Subject: Legal constraints (la "Loi Toubon") [Re: Language barriers --- financial barriers In-Reply-To: <49C239C3.9060604@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <161227085427.23782.2645272118173716689.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 363 Lines: 14 > I have heard that in Germany a Ph.D. thesis can be written in English, but I > would like to have confirmation of that fact. I think different German universities have different regulations, but at the Univ. of Bonn, it is certainly permissible to submit a PhD in English or German. Or Latin, still, I believe. But not Sanskrit. :-) Dominik Wujastyk From lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO Thu Mar 19 15:07:47 2009 From: lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 16:07:47 +0100 Subject: Legal constraints (la "Loi Toubon") [Re: Language barriers --- financial barriers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085430.23782.18317821732883221530.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1262 Lines: 48 A large number of Norwegian doctoral theses and scholarly papers are written in English as a matter of course. Now exhortations are handed out to use Norwegian, so that Norwegian should not wither and die as a language for academic purposes. A pretty hopeless proposition, by the way, since most people outside Scandinavia are unable to read Norwegian. Best regards Lars Martin Fosse From: Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo - Norway Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 E-mail: lmfosse at getmail.no > -----Original Message----- > From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of > Dominik Wujastyk > Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 3:52 PM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: Legal constraints (la "Loi Toubon") [Re: > Language barriers --- financial barriers > > > I have heard that in Germany a Ph.D. thesis can be written > in English, > > but I would like to have confirmation of that fact. > > I think different German universities have different > regulations, but at the Univ. of Bonn, it is certainly > permissible to submit a PhD in English or German. Or Latin, > still, I believe. > > But not Sanskrit. :-) > > > Dominik Wujastyk From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Thu Mar 19 15:28:32 2009 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 16:28:32 +0100 Subject: Translations into Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <68117990-EA1E-4729-B80E-23E7D253A8A9@gmx.de> Message-ID: <161227085437.23782.12445631456126139160.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1659 Lines: 50 Samr?? Jagann?tha translated Euclid into Sanskrit at the court of Jayasi?ha (1688-1743). Ed by Kamal??a?kara Pr??a?a?kara Trived?, Bombay: Nir?asas?gara Press, 1901. It was the Nasir ad-Din al-Tusi's Arabic tr. of Euclid that was translated, not the original Greek. Michael Dodson has written a good article on Ballantyne's 19th century efforts in Benares to present European science of the time in Sanskrit treatises. He and his pandits produced treatises for example on chemistry, the moon, and other topics. See http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=100309 Lancelot Wilkinson and his pandit Bapu Deva Sastri too worked on translating Arabic and European astronomical treatises into Sanskrit. See Minikowski's paper in Michaels' book The Pandit (http://books.google.com/books?id=0TtuAAAAMAAJ&pgis=1) and other papers. Best, -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Sven Sellmer wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > lately I was asked about early translations into Sanskrit and noticed that > this is quite an interesting question I know little about. Is anybody aware > of articles or books on this topic? In particular, I would be curious to > learn about the earliest translations into Sanskrit of texts originally > composed in languages others than Middle Indo-Aryan ones (as only these I > would consider translations in the full sense). > > Best wishes, > Sven Sellmer > > ************************************ > Dr. Sven Sellmer > Adam Mickiewicz University > Institute of Oriental Studies > South Asia Unit > ul. 28 czerwca 1956 r. nr 198 > 61-485 Pozna? > POLAND > sven at amu.edu.pl From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Thu Mar 19 15:32:55 2009 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 16:32:55 +0100 Subject: Classical heritages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085443.23782.11775525739331463527.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 874 Lines: 37 Dear Brendan, It's not exactly what you ask, but a little while ago I was thinking quantitively about this too, and came up with the estimate that the Sanskrit knowledge formation (need a better term) is the product of approximately 100 generations of brahmana families. Best, Dominik -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Brendan Gillon wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > I am hoping that someone might be able to direct me to a source which might > give me a rough idea of the comparison of the classical heritage of India > versus the classical heritage of Europe from Greece and Rome. What I have in > mind is something like a first order approximation of the relative sizes of > the literature, the manuscripts and their cataloging. Clearly, this must be > done for some arbitrarily chosen cut off date. > > Best wishes, > > Brendan Gillon > > > > From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Thu Mar 19 16:23:44 2009 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 17:23:44 +0100 Subject: Translations into Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <68117990-EA1E-4729-B80E-23E7D253A8A9@gmx.de> Message-ID: <161227085448.23782.8935557169142991074.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1734 Lines: 40 Am Donnerstag, den 19.03.2009, 13:23 +0100 schrieb Sven Sellmer: > lately I was asked about early translations into Sanskrit and noticed > that this is quite an interesting question I know little about. Is > anybody aware of articles or books on this topic? In particular, I > would be curious to learn about the earliest translations into > Sanskrit of texts originally composed in languages others than Middle > Indo-Aryan ones (as only these I would consider translations in the > full sense). There is a legend that the Daode jing (or Tao te king if you like) has been translated into Sanskrit. The legend is found in a 7th century Buddhist compilation (Ji gujin fodao lunheng, Taisho Nr. 2104). See Paul Pelliot: "Autour d'une traduction sanscrite to Tao-t? king". In: T'oung Pao 13 (1912), p. 351-430 (esp. p. 381 seqq.). It is said that the king of Kamarupa asked the Chinese traveller Li Yibiao to translate Laozi's work. According to the mentioned work (Ji gujin fodao lunheng), a committee of Daoist and Buddhist scholars with Xuanzang as one its prominent members came together to execute this task. Of course, nothing of this kind survived. Perhaps the Samudrasangama belongs here, too. This is the Sanskrit version of Dara Shukoh's Majma ul-Bahrain (written in Persian). It is said to be composed in Sanskrit by the author himself in 1657, the same year when the Persian original came out. See e.g. Roma Chaudhuri: A critical study of Dara Shikuh's Samudra-Sangama. Vol. 1. Calcutta 1954 (vol. 2 contains the text edition by Jatindra Bimal Chaudhuri). Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Abteilung f?r Indologie Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 D-53113 Bonn From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 19 12:09:44 2009 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 17:39:44 +0530 Subject: clinking, silent and slipping bangles In-Reply-To: <6D4A4C70-6C88-4D01-AE7D-E8B1B04E4556@mac.com> Message-ID: <161227085410.23782.3024059888185876251.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2795 Lines: 86 As with images of bangles, there must be hundreds of literary passages to which one could refer. But does "bangle" in this project include all the various ornaments that can be worn on an arm or a leg (keyuura, valaya, a"ngada, nuupura, parihaa.taka, ma~njiira, ka.taka, ka"nka.na, etc.) and all their various associations ? Hearing the delicious clinking of bangles is clearly widely regarded as a very high pleasure, as, for instance, this verse of the Vairaagya"sataka attests. agre giita.m sarasakavaya.h paar"svayor daak.si.naatyaa.h pa"scaal liilaavalayara.nita.m caamaragraahi.niinaam| yady astv eva.m kuru bhavarasaasvaadane lampa.tatva.m no cec ceta.h pravi"sa sahasaa nirvikalpe samaadhau|| And such clinking is very often erotic ("S.r"ngaara"sataka): etaa"s caladvalayasa.mhatimekhalotthajha.mkaaranuupuraparaajitaraajaha.msya.h| kurvanti kasya na mano viva"sa.m taru.nyo vitrastamugdhahari.niisad.r"sai.h ka.taak.sai.h|| Conversely, when bangles fall off and are silent, this can be full of poignant sadness (e.g. Siitaa's anklet in the Raghuvam"sa (13.23)): e.saa sthalii yatra vicinvataa tvaa.m bhra.s.ta.m mayaa nuupuram ekam uurvyaam| ad.r"syata tvaccara.naaravindavi"sle.sadu.hkhaad iva baddhamaunam And when they slip off this is likely to be a symptom of emaciation, often the fifth stage of love (smarada"saa). I wonder whether this last topos of bangles slipping off women and men as a result of love first appears in Old Tamil poetry or in Sanskrit. The following verse of Kaalidaasa (in act 3 of "Sakuntalaa) describes King Du.syanta: idam a"si"sirair antastaapaad vivar.nama.niik.rtam ni"si ni"si bhujanyastaapaa"ngaprasaaribhir a"srubhi.h| anabhilulitajyaaghaataa"nka.m muhur ma.nibandhanaat kanakavalaya.m srasta.m srasta.m mayaa pratisaaryate|| But when does that topos first make its appearance in Sanskrit literature? Dominic Goodall Ecole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient ("French School of Asian Studies"), Pondicherry On 19 Mar 2009, at 10:32, Mary Storm wrote: > Dear Indologists, > > I am writing on behalf of a student who is doing a research project > on the place of bangles in Indian society. She is looking at images > (plenty, not a problem!) and she is also searching for poetic > references (not so successful). I hope that one of you could offer > up some possible poetic references. I can only think of the poem by > Sarojini Naidu. > > Any help would be most appreciated. > > Thank you so much for your thoughts! > > Mary > > > Mary Storm, Ph.D. > Academic Director > North India Arts and Culture > and > Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture > SIT Study Abroad > School for International Training > www.sit.edu > > Mobile +91 98106 98003 > F-301 Lado Sarai > 2nd Fl > New Delhi 110030 India From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Thu Mar 19 16:56:07 2009 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 17:56:07 +0100 Subject: Classical heritages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085456.23782.16758532100688770556.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3307 Lines: 76 Further to Richard's comments, I heard David Pingree say in conversation that there might be 30 million Sanskrit manuscripts in the world today, if one took into account all the MSS in private collections. Unfortunately, I never asked him how he got that figure (did anyone else hear this estimate from him?). The National Mission for Manuscripts (http://www.namami.org/) works with a figure of seven million, if I remember correctly. NAMAMI has conducted surveys, the results of which are here: http://www.namami.org/nationalsurvey.htm I find the results raise questions for me: the numbers of MSS seem rather low. Maybe they are only looking at non-library repositories? There are other questions: In 2004-5, in Bihar, Orissa and UP, 650,000 manuscripts were documented in about 35,000 repositories. That means each repository had 18.6 MSS. Nobody has that few MSS. If you walk into almost any brahman home, there's an almira somewhere that's packed with MSS. I would estimate 100-500 MSS is typical of a domestic collection, with numbers easily rising to a couple of thousand. For example, during a visit to the Alwar branch of the RORI a few years ago, I took some notes about donated MS acquisitions added subsequent to the Maharaja's palace collection: Donor Number of MSS Pt Poorna Malji 200 Pt Laxmi Kantji 200 Pt Ram Dattaji 335 Sarvashir Pt Pitamer Das 60 Nandan Lalji Misra 42 Ramesh Chandraji Bhargava 144 Thakur Chiddu Singh 59 Shankar Lalji 104 Pyare Lalji Sharma 5 Amarnathji Sarasvat 166 Pt Shiv Dattaji 500 The Peterson catalogue lists 2478 MSS in 1892; by 1985 there were 6711 MSS, of which 1687 were by donation by the above-listed gentlemen. Again, there are lots of open questions here. What is the demographic of pandits or families willing to donate their MSS to RORI? What are the social pressures to do so, or not to do so? Is it meritorious? Is it more meritorious to throw MSS into a river (as documented by Prof. KT Pandurangi in his 1978 booklet "The Wealth of Sanskrit Manuscripts in India and Abroad" (http://books.google.nl/books?id=ahZ2AAAAIAAJ). Are there large, undonated collections? One valuable policy of the RORI branches is that they put the name of the donor pandit on a large label on top of the almira with his MSS. A sense of identity, continuity and family pride is preserved in this way. It might seem a small thing, but it's important. Final point for now: rough calculations based on collection-wide statistics for MS corpora such as those documented in VOHD show that MSS having dated colophons number about 15% of a typical collection, and that THE MEDIAN DATE FOR SURVIVING SANSKRIT MSS IS 1830 I've shouted that statement because it is so extraordinary. It is explicable as the result of two historical facts. First, the destruction of MSS preceding this date. (Pingree, again, said that a paper Sanskrit MS physically lasted about 200 years.) Second, the advent of widespread printing in the second half of the nineteenth century, leading to the demise of the scribal profession. If Pingree's 200 year figure is roughly right, the majority of surviving paper Skt MSS have about 20 years left before disappearing just from old age. Best, -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk From donovevs at LIBERO.IT Thu Mar 19 16:57:31 2009 From: donovevs at LIBERO.IT (donovevs@libero.it) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 17:57:31 +0100 Subject: Translations into Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227085459.23782.339044976034846078.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1003 Lines: 50 The Raajavyavahaarakoza is a lexicon of Sanskrit equivalents to (mostly) Persian administrative terms; it was prepared on Shivaji?s behalf by Raghunaatha (ca. 1676). Regards, Svevo D?Onofrio Department of Linguistic and Oriental Studies University of Bologna (Italy) On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Sven Sellmer wrote: Dear Colleagues, lately I was asked about early translations into Sanskrit and noticed that this is quite an interesting question I know little about. Is anybody aware of articles or books on this topic? In particular, I would be curious to learn about the earliest translations into Sanskrit of texts originally composed in languages others than Middle Indo-Aryan ones (as only these I would consider translations in the full sense). Best wishes, Sven Sellmer ************************************ Dr. Sven Sellmer Adam Mickiewicz University Institute of Oriental Studies South Asia Unit ul. 28 czerwca 1956 r. nr 198 61-485 Pozna? POLAND sven at amu.edu.pl From wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK Thu Mar 19 17:57:39 2009 From: wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK (Whitney Cox) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 17:57:39 +0000 Subject: Translations from Tamil into Sanskrit (Re: Translations into Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <49C27BE7.10803@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <161227085468.23782.2543586022141197330.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3380 Lines: 104 I've been told that the Tamil Periyapuraa.nam of Ceekki_laar (ca. 1140 CE) was translated into Sanskrit as the "Sivabhaktavilaasa, attributed to the sage Upamanyu and assigned a locus of attribution in the Skandapuraa.na. A brief look in some library catalogues (SOAS, Chicago, BL) didn't turn up any references to this text, but there is a Telugu translation (as the "Srii"sivebhaktavilaasamu, the details available at the URL pasted below). http://libcat.uchicago.edu/ipac20/ipac.jsp?session=12374I4M28801.170989&profile=ucpublic&uri=full=3100001~!6161913~!8&ri=5&aspect=subtab13&menu=search&source=~!horizon Also, R. Vijayalakshmy established some years ago that the Tamil Ciivakacintaama.ni served as the basis of a Sanskrit version of the story of the Jaina kaamadeva Jiivandhara and not the other way around, as had previously been thought. The details of this Sanskrit text aren't coming to me at the moment; see her 1981 publication A Study of the Ciivakacintaama.ni (Ahmedabad: L.D. Institute of Indology). Whitney Cox 2009/3/19 Jean-Luc Chevillard : > If you are interested in translations from Tamil into Sanskrit, > you can have a look at the following book: > > /Un texte tamoul de d?votion vishnouite: le Tirupp?vai d'?????/, Jean > FILLIOZAT, Institut Fran?ais d'Indology, Publication N?45, 1972 > > It contains: > > -- an introduction [pp. vii-xxiii] > > -- a bibliography [pp. xxiv-xxvii] > > -- the (original Tamil) text of the /Tirupp?vai/, along with a French > translation [pp. 2-31] > > -- notes [pp. 33-56] > > -- the TIRUPP?VAI SA?SK?T?NUVY?KHY?NAM (by ?r?ra?gar?m?nujasv?mi) [pp. > 57-67] > > -- a French translation ("Commentaire perp?tuel sanskrit par > ?r?ra?gar?m?nujasv?mi [pp.69-79] > > -- the ?R?VRATA? (TIRUPP?VAI) > > -- a French translation (?R?VRATA, LE VOEU DE FORTUNE) [pp. 87-92] > > -- an INDEX [pp. 93-116] > > In the introduction (p. xxii), Jean Filliozat writes: > "Le /Tirupp?vai/ a ?t? aussi trois fois au moins traduit en sanskrit. ..." > > He then gives details concerning the first 2 translations, included in the > book, and the third one, not included, which exists as a manuscript in the > EFEO library in Pondicherry (n? EFEO 64). > > I should add that the /Tirupp?vai/ is dated by Kamil Zvelebil in the 8th > century. (/Lexicon of Tamil Literature/, Brill, 1995, p. 685) > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard > (CNRS, Universit? Paris-Diderot Paris 7) > > > > Sven Sellmer a ?crit : >> >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> lately I was asked about early translations into Sanskrit and noticed that >> this is quite an interesting question I know little about. Is anybody aware >> of articles or books on this topic? In particular, I would be curious to >> learn about the earliest translations into Sanskrit of texts originally >> composed in languages others than Middle Indo-Aryan ones (as only these I >> would consider translations in the full sense). >> >> Best wishes, >> Sven Sellmer >> >> ************************************ >> Dr. Sven Sellmer >> Adam Mickiewicz University >> Institute of Oriental Studies >> South Asia Unit >> ul. 28 czerwca 1956 r. nr 198 >> 61-485 Pozna? >> POLAND >> sven at amu.edu.pl >> > -- Dr. Whitney Cox Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, School of Oriental and African Studies Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square London WC1H 0XG From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Thu Mar 19 17:07:51 2009 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 18:07:51 +0100 Subject: Translations from Tamil into Sanskrit (Re: Translations into Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <68117990-EA1E-4729-B80E-23E7D253A8A9@gmx.de> Message-ID: <161227085461.23782.13035677998470705713.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2014 Lines: 71 If you are interested in translations from Tamil into Sanskrit, you can have a look at the following book: /Un texte tamoul de d?votion vishnouite: le Tirupp?vai d'?????/, Jean FILLIOZAT, Institut Fran?ais d'Indology, Publication N?45, 1972 It contains: -- an introduction [pp. vii-xxiii] -- a bibliography [pp. xxiv-xxvii] -- the (original Tamil) text of the /Tirupp?vai/, along with a French translation [pp. 2-31] -- notes [pp. 33-56] -- the TIRUPP?VAI SA?SK?T?NUVY?KHY?NAM (by ?r?ra?gar?m?nujasv?mi) [pp. 57-67] -- a French translation ("Commentaire perp?tuel sanskrit par ?r?ra?gar?m?nujasv?mi [pp.69-79] -- the ?R?VRATA? (TIRUPP?VAI) -- a French translation (?R?VRATA, LE VOEU DE FORTUNE) [pp. 87-92] -- an INDEX [pp. 93-116] In the introduction (p. xxii), Jean Filliozat writes: "Le /Tirupp?vai/ a ?t? aussi trois fois au moins traduit en sanskrit. ..." He then gives details concerning the first 2 translations, included in the book, and the third one, not included, which exists as a manuscript in the EFEO library in Pondicherry (n? EFEO 64). I should add that the /Tirupp?vai/ is dated by Kamil Zvelebil in the 8th century. (/Lexicon of Tamil Literature/, Brill, 1995, p. 685) -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS, Universit? Paris-Diderot Paris 7) Sven Sellmer a ?crit : > Dear Colleagues, > > lately I was asked about early translations into Sanskrit and noticed > that this is quite an interesting question I know little about. Is > anybody aware of articles or books on this topic? In particular, I > would be curious to learn about the earliest translations into > Sanskrit of texts originally composed in languages others than Middle > Indo-Aryan ones (as only these I would consider translations in the > full sense). > > Best wishes, > Sven Sellmer > > ************************************ > Dr. Sven Sellmer > Adam Mickiewicz University > Institute of Oriental Studies > South Asia Unit > ul. 28 czerwca 1956 r. nr 198 > 61-485 Pozna? > POLAND > sven at amu.edu.pl > From franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Thu Mar 19 17:21:43 2009 From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE (franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 18:21:43 +0100 Subject: Legal constraints (la "Loi Toubon") [Re: Language barriers --- financial barriers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085464.23782.12681885274654236880.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1061 Lines: 35 At the University of Leipzig dissertations can be written in all major languages, pending on permission by the faculty, which is almost automatically granted. We had a couple of dissertations in Spanish recently and of course many more in English. The regulations may differ not only from one university to another, but also for different faculties within the same university. There are probably some faculties where one can still submit dissertations in Latin. Best wishes EF Quoting Dominik Wujastyk : >> I have heard that in Germany a Ph.D. thesis can be written in >> English, but I would like to have confirmation of that fact. > > I think different German universities have different regulations, > but at the Univ. of Bonn, it is certainly permissible to submit a > PhD in English or German. Or Latin, still, I believe. > > But not Sanskrit. :-) > > > Dominik Wujastyk > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From veerankp at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 19 13:21:40 2009 From: veerankp at GMAIL.COM (veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 18:51:40 +0530 Subject: Legal constraints (la "Loi Toubon") [Re: Language barriers --- financial barriers In-Reply-To: <49C239C3.9060604@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <161227085420.23782.12349506906575521467.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7521 Lines: 193 Offcourse French language patriotism of French people is well known fact. The situation may be same in other countries. Hence I understand that thing. I acknowledged that even in my first mail that started the debate. But I hope that does not prevent authors of non-doctoral works to writen in samskrita. But In india it is vastly different. earlier the doctoral theses used to be only in English, then they came in other regional languages also. Finally then it is free for all. If somebody is student in Bangalore university (Samskrita dept) he can write in english, Kannada, or Samskrita, but, I think, not in telugu. similarly Rajasthan University allows one write in Hindi English and Samskrita. *But all Samskrita universities (12) have uniform rule to have theses in Samskrita only.* veeranarayana On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 5:55 PM, Jean-Luc Chevillard < jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr> wrote: > As a contribution to the debate, I would like to mention another parameter, > namely the legal constraints that vary from country to country. > > It is (in normal conditions) against the law to write a Ph.D. thesis in > English if you study at a French university. > > See the following link: > > > > where you will find the "Article 11", of the "LOI n? 94-665 du 4 ao?t 1994 > relative ? l'emploi de la langue fran?aise" (known as "Loi Toubon") which > says: > > "La langue de l'enseignement, des examens et concours, ainsi que des th?ses > et m?moires dans les ?tablissements publics et priv?s d'enseignement est le > fran?ais, sauf exceptions justifi?es par les n?cessit?s de l'enseignement > des langues et cultures r?gionales ou ?trang?res ou lorsque les enseignants > sont des professeurs associ?s ou invit?s ?trangers." > > I have heard that in Germany a Ph.D. thesis can be written in English, but > I would like to have confirmation of that fact. > > I am under the impression that in Italy, a Ph.D. thesis must be in italian. > > What is the situation in India? Is it possible to write a Ph.D. thesis in > Sanskrit? > > The consequence of the French legal constraints is that a French Ph.D. > thesis in the field of Indology has to be translated into English before it > can hope to reach an international audience > (and translation into Sanskrit, or Tamil, can probably only be viewed as a > third step). > > Of course, there are people in France who realize that this situation is > problematic, but there are other people who fight strongly against any > change. > > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS, Universit? Paris-Diderot Paris 7) > > > veeranarayana Pandurangi a ?crit : > >> Certainly, I welcome prof. Kiparsky's suggestion. >> >> It is what suggested by me there in hyderabad seminar. What I pointed is >> that Prof. Kiparsky, prof. Houben, prof. Stall and very few others have >> contributed very much grammatical tradition of panini, on the subject that >> prof. Houben spoke there. But most of these researches are in english, >> which >> is mostly onknown to most of the very good traditional Samskrita scholars >> who fortunatley still are keeping alive the panini's tradition. simlar is >> the case of other shastras still rigorously studied in India, Nyaya, >> Vyakarana, Mimamsa, Vedanta, Sahitya. [...] >> >> >> Hence those writing in socalled international language i.e. English should >> also publish in samskrita (not sanskrit) and technical language that >> includes and that is original to paninian tradition, then the intended >> result can be acheived. people should be made aware of these things. Many >> of >> you may know oldtimer pandita manners very well while visiting india. >> >> [....] >> >> Similarly people should practice writing in sanskrit. Sure I know that >> will >> have their no impact on their career in US universities and elsewhere, but >> then english writing will have no result though writer may become >> profesor. >> >> I dont say it is solely the fault of people writing in english or language >> itself, the sin is shared by Pandits also by not responding to these >> writngs. but then there come all the barriers. we have a strike a balance >> to >> overcome it. By writing in Samskrita one will only contribute more to >> language he studies, and nothing udesired thing will happen. >> >> This is what I spoke in Hyderabad. >> >> It is upto the scholars to workout. >> veeranarayana >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Paul Kiparsky >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> If you want your work to be accessible to linguistically disjoint >>> audiences, why write it up in just one language? In smaller European >>> countries it is, or at any rate used to be, usual to publish one's work >>> both >>> in English (or German) in an international journal, and locally in the >>> national language. For English-speaking Indologists, the comparable >>> practice would be to publish both an English version in an international >>> journal or book, and a Hindi, Tamil, or Sanskrit version in India. As >>> Jan >>> Houben reported here on March 3, summaries of the talks at the recent >>> Third >>> International Sanskrit Computational Linguistics Symposium were made >>> available both in English and in Sanskrit. The traditional philologists >>> and >>> pandits who attended the conference welcomed the Sanskrit version as a >>> step >>> to overcoming the language barrier and establishing mutual understanding >>> with English-speaking Indologists and computational linguists. >>> >>> Paul Kiparsky >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mar 18, 2009, at 5:09 PM, Simon Brodbeck wrote: >>> >>> On Friday 6 March 2009, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: "The more languages >>> one >>> >>> >>>> knows, the better." >>>> >>>> Few would disagree. But that is from the perspective of the consumer or >>>> recipient of texts. Active researchers are also producers of texts, and >>>> must >>>> produce them in one language or another. From this perspective, one's >>>> work >>>> will be inaccessible to those who lack facility with the language in >>>> which >>>> it is presented; and the choice of language is therefore a choice of >>>> audience. >>>> >>>> On the issue of financial barriers, it is an ongoing source of >>>> embarrassment and bemusement to myself and many of my contemporaries >>>> that >>>> the journals and publishers we have been led to believe are most highly >>>> esteemed by our institutional elders (in whose hands our careers lie) >>>> tend >>>> to be those which most of our desired audience cannot access. One cannot >>>> but >>>> suppose that, as a result, most of the discourse that there is on >>>> indological subjects occurs in contexts systematically ignorant of >>>> certain >>>> recent discoveries in indology. >>>> >>>> The UK Arts and Humanities Research Council has been funding a higher >>>> and >>>> higher fraction of British indological research in recent years. My >>>> perception is that the AHRC are increasingly concerned to ensure that >>>> the >>>> projects they fund have outputs accessible beyond the university sector. >>>> Perhaps, then, pretty soon, projects whose principal written outputs are >>>> not >>>> to be made freely available online will simply not be publicly funded. >>>> >>>> Simon Brodbeck >>>> Cardiff University >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> > -- Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi Head, Dept of Darshanas, Yoganandacharya Bhavan, Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026. From fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU Fri Mar 20 02:42:19 2009 From: fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU (FRITS STAAL) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 19:42:19 -0700 Subject: Classical heritages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085486.23782.5537882063624066330.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3660 Lines: 85 The statement "If you walk into almost any brahman home, there's an almira somewhere that's packed with MSS." is grossly exaggerated. It applies to a few homes of brahman families in traditional areas. > Further to Richard's comments, I heard David Pingree say in conversation > that there might be 30 million Sanskrit manuscripts in the world today, if > one took into account all the MSS in private collections. Unfortunately, > I never asked him how he got that figure (did anyone else hear this > estimate from him?). The National Mission for Manuscripts > (http://www.namami.org/) works with a figure of seven million, if I > remember correctly. NAMAMI has conducted surveys, the results of which > are here: > > http://www.namami.org/nationalsurvey.htm > > I find the results raise questions for me: the numbers of MSS seem rather > low. Maybe they are only looking at non-library repositories? There are > other questions: In 2004-5, in Bihar, Orissa and UP, 650,000 manuscripts > were documented in about 35,000 repositories. That means each repository > had 18.6 MSS. Nobody has that few MSS. If you walk into almost any > brahman home, there's an almira somewhere that's packed with MSS. I would > estimate 100-500 MSS is typical of a domestic collection, with numbers > easily rising to a couple of thousand. For example, during a visit to the > Alwar branch of the RORI a few years ago, I took some notes about donated > MS acquisitions added subsequent to the Maharaja's palace collection: > > Donor Number of MSS > > Pt Poorna Malji 200 > Pt Laxmi Kantji 200 > Pt Ram Dattaji 335 > Sarvashir Pt Pitamer Das 60 > Nandan Lalji Misra 42 > Ramesh Chandraji Bhargava 144 > Thakur Chiddu Singh 59 > Shankar Lalji 104 > Pyare Lalji Sharma 5 > Amarnathji Sarasvat 166 > Pt Shiv Dattaji 500 > > The Peterson catalogue lists 2478 MSS in 1892; by 1985 there were 6711 > MSS, of which 1687 were by donation by the above-listed gentlemen. > > Again, there are lots of open questions here. What is the demographic of > pandits or families willing to donate their MSS to RORI? What are the > social pressures to do so, or not to do so? Is it meritorious? Is it > more meritorious to throw MSS into a river (as documented by Prof. KT > Pandurangi in his 1978 booklet "The Wealth of Sanskrit Manuscripts in > India and Abroad" (http://books.google.nl/books?id=ahZ2AAAAIAAJ). Are > there large, undonated collections? > > One valuable policy of the RORI branches is that they put the name of the > donor pandit on a large label on top of the almira with his MSS. A sense > of identity, continuity and family pride is preserved in this way. It > might seem a small thing, but it's important. > > Final point for now: rough calculations based on collection-wide > statistics for MS corpora such as those documented in VOHD show that MSS > having dated colophons number about 15% of a typical collection, and that > > THE MEDIAN DATE FOR SURVIVING SANSKRIT MSS IS 1830 > > I've shouted that statement because it is so extraordinary. It is > explicable as the result of two historical facts. First, the destruction > of MSS preceding this date. (Pingree, again, said that a paper Sanskrit > MS physically lasted about 200 years.) Second, the advent of widespread > printing in the second half of the nineteenth century, leading to the > demise of the scribal profession. > > If Pingree's 200 year figure is roughly right, the majority of surviving > paper Skt MSS have about 20 years left before disappearing just from old > age. > > > Best, > -- > Dr Dominik Wujastyk > Frits Staal http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/staal From e.ciurtin at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 19 18:54:32 2009 From: e.ciurtin at GMAIL.COM (Eugen Ciurtin) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 20:54:32 +0200 Subject: Translations into Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <20557244.258861237481851593.JavaMail.root@wmail4.libero.it> Message-ID: <161227085471.23782.398900252292107382.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2212 Lines: 89 Neriosangh, a Gujarati Parsi *dastur*, translated the Avestan Yasna into Sanskrit probably in the 15th c. This translation (discovered by Anquetil Dupperon during his stay in India) was of crucial help for Eug?ne Burnouf (1801-1852) in his comparative studies of the Avesta, mainly in *Commentaire sur le Ya?na*, Paris, 1833ff., continued in 1861 by Friedrich Spiegel in*Neriosengh?s Sanskrit-?bersetzung des Ya?na *. http://books.google.com/books?id=ULgOAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA193&dq=neriosengh+sanskrit&lr=&ei=1YvCSfH1K5HaMbqWvOwN&hl=ro There are other early modern Sanskrit translations of Avestic or Pahlavi Zoroastrian works (e.g. parts of the *Vendidad*, *Arda Viraz*, etc.). With best wishes, Eugen Ciurtin 2009/3/19 donovevs at libero.it > The Raajavyavahaarakoza is a lexicon of Sanskrit equivalents to (mostly) > Persian administrative terms; it was prepared on Shivaji?s behalf by > Raghunaatha (ca. 1676). > > Regards, > > Svevo D?Onofrio > > Department of Linguistic > and Oriental Studies > University of Bologna (Italy) > > > > On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Sven > Sellmer wrote: > > Dear Colleagues, > > lately I was asked about early translations > into Sanskrit and noticed > that this is quite an interesting question I know > little about. Is > anybody aware of articles or books on this topic? In > particular, I > would be curious to learn about the earliest translations > into > Sanskrit of texts originally composed in languages others than Middle > > Indo-Aryan ones (as only these I would consider translations in the > full > sense). > > Best wishes, > Sven Sellmer > > ************************************ > Dr. > Sven Sellmer > Adam Mickiewicz University > Institute of Oriental Studies > South > Asia Unit > ul. 28 czerwca 1956 r. nr 198 > 61-485 Pozna? > POLAND > sven at amu.edu.pl > -- Dr E. Ciurtin Secretary of the Romanian Association for the History of Religions www.rahr.ro Publications Officer of the European Association for the Study of Religions www.easr.de Secretary of the Scientific Council Institute for the History of Religions, Romanian Academy Calea 13 Septembrie no. 13 sect. 5, Bucharest 050711 Phone: 00 40 733 951 953 www.ihr-acad.ro From hellwig7 at GMX.DE Thu Mar 19 21:10:33 2009 From: hellwig7 at GMX.DE (Oliver Hellwig) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 21:10:33 +0000 Subject: PDF dictionaries Message-ID: <161227085474.23782.17524305188077155409.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 222 Lines: 10 Dear list, a dictionary of the Buddhacarita and a cumulative dictionary of the Samkhyakarika (with (parts of) two commentaries) are available at www.sanskritreader.de/dictionaries/dictionaries.htm. Best, O. Hellwig From franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Thu Mar 19 21:25:34 2009 From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE (franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 22:25:34 +0100 Subject: Translations into Sanskrit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085477.23782.8016287057964485763.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2221 Lines: 69 There is Sanskrit translation of the Bible, printed in the grantha script, from 1863. Perhaps there are earlier ones. If I remember correctly, Sylvain Levi discusses some evidence for the translation of the Alexander Legend into Sanskrit in the early centuries CE. Best wishes, EF Quoting Dominik Wujastyk : > > Samr?? Jagann?tha translated Euclid into Sanskrit at the court of > Jayasi?ha (1688-1743). Ed by Kamal??a?kara Pr??a?a?kara Trived?, > Bombay: Nir?asas?gara Press, 1901. It was the Nasir ad-Din > al-Tusi's Arabic tr. of Euclid that was translated, not the original > Greek. > > Michael Dodson has written a good article on Ballantyne's 19th > century efforts in Benares to present European science of the time > in Sanskrit treatises. He and his pandits produced treatises for > example on chemistry, the moon, and other topics. See > http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=100309 > > Lancelot Wilkinson and his pandit Bapu Deva Sastri too worked on > translating Arabic and European astronomical treatises into > Sanskrit. See Minikowski's paper in Michaels' book The Pandit > (http://books.google.com/books?id=0TtuAAAAMAAJ&pgis=1) and other > papers. > > Best, > -- > Dr Dominik Wujastyk > > > > > On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Sven Sellmer wrote: > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> lately I was asked about early translations into Sanskrit and >> noticed that this is quite an interesting question I know little >> about. Is anybody aware of articles or books on this topic? In >> particular, I would be curious to learn about the earliest >> translations into Sanskrit of texts originally composed in >> languages others than Middle Indo-Aryan ones (as only these I would >> consider translations in the full sense). >> >> Best wishes, >> Sven Sellmer >> >> ************************************ >> Dr. Sven Sellmer >> Adam Mickiewicz University >> Institute of Oriental Studies >> South Asia Unit >> ul. 28 czerwca 1956 r. nr 198 >> 61-485 Pozna? >> POLAND >> sven at amu.edu.pl ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From elisa.freschi at STUDISUDASIATICI.NET Thu Mar 19 21:35:38 2009 From: elisa.freschi at STUDISUDASIATICI.NET (elisa freschi) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 22:35:38 +0100 Subject: Legal constraints (la "Loi Toubon") [Re: Language barriers --- financial barriers Message-ID: <161227085480.23782.2619134921268049887.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7657 Lines: 198 > I am under the impression that in Italy, a Ph.D. thesis > must be in italian. MA thesis must be in Italian (I know of only one exception), whereas PhD thesis are normally written in Italian, but if the PhD committee members agree they can also be written in English. In the last five years this happens many times, but it is by far not the rule. elisa freschi (research felow, University 'Sapienza' Rome, Italy) ----- Original Message ----- Da : Alexandra Vandergeer A : INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Oggetto : Re: Legal constraints (la "Loi Toubon") [Re: Language barriers --- financial barriers Data : Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:37:44 +0100 > Same is valid for Greek universities: PhD theses should be > written in Greek. There is, however, a change, it is under > certain circumstances allowed to write in English (but > with permission from all committee members, so forget it). > > Alexandra > > ________________________________ > > Van: Indology namens Jean-Luc Chevillard > Verzonden: do 19-3-2009 14:25 > Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Onderwerp: Legal constraints (la "Loi Toubon") [Re: > Language barriers --- financial barriers > > > > As a contribution to the debate, I would like to mention > another parameter, namely the legal constraints that vary > from country to country. > > It is (in normal conditions) against the law to write a > Ph.D. thesis in English if you study at a French > university. > > See the following link: > > > > where you will find the "Article 11", of the "LOI n? > 94-665 du 4 ao?t 1994 relative ? l'emploi de la langue > fran?aise" (known as "Loi Toubon") which says: > > "La langue de l'enseignement, des examens et concours, > ainsi que des th?ses et m?moires dans les ?tablissements > publics et priv?s d'enseignement est le fran?ais, sauf > exceptions justifi?es par les n?cessit?s de l'enseignement > des langues et cultures r?gionales ou ?trang?res ou > lorsque les enseignants sont des professeurs associ?s ou > invit?s ?trangers." > > I have heard that in Germany a Ph.D. thesis can be written > in English, but I would like to have confirmation of that > fact. > > I am under the impression that in Italy, a Ph.D. thesis > must be in italian. > > What is the situation in India? Is it possible to write a > Ph.D. thesis in Sanskrit? > > The consequence of the French legal constraints is that a > French Ph.D. thesis in the field of Indology has to be > translated into English before it can hope to reach an > international audience (and translation into Sanskrit, or > Tamil, can probably only be viewed as a third step). > > Of course, there are people in France who realize that > this situation is problematic, but there are other people > who fight strongly against any change. > > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS, Universit? Paris-Diderot > Paris 7) > > > veeranarayana Pandurangi a ?crit : > > Certainly, I welcome prof. Kiparsky's suggestion. > > > > It is what suggested by me there in hyderabad seminar. > > What I pointed is that Prof. Kiparsky, prof. Houben, > > prof. Stall and very few others have contributed very > > much grammatical tradition of panini, on the subject > that prof. Houben spoke there. But most of these > > researches are in english, which is mostly onknown to > > most of the very good traditional Samskrita scholars who > fortunatley still are keeping alive the panini's > > tradition. simlar is the case of other shastras still > > rigorously studied in India, Nyaya, Vyakarana, Mimamsa, > Vedanta, Sahitya. [...] > > > > > Hence those writing in socalled international language > > i.e. English should also publish in samskrita (not > > sanskrit) and technical language that includes and that > > is original to paninian tradition, then the intended > result can be acheived. people should be made aware of > > these things. Many of you may know oldtimer pandita > manners very well while visiting india. > > > [....] > > > > Similarly people should practice writing in sanskrit. > > Sure I know that will have their no impact on their > > career in US universities and elsewhere, but then > english writing will have no result though writer may > become profesor. > > > I dont say it is solely the fault of people writing in > > english or language itself, the sin is shared by Pandits > > also by not responding to these writngs. but then there > > come all the barriers. we have a strike a balance to > overcome it. By writing in Samskrita one will only > > contribute more to language he studies, and nothing > udesired thing will happen. > > > This is what I spoke in Hyderabad. > > > > It is upto the scholars to workout. > > veeranarayana > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Paul Kiparsky > > wrote: > > > > > >> If you want your work to be accessible to > linguistically disjoint >> audiences, why write it up in > just one language? In smaller European >> countries it > is, or at any rate used to be, usual to publish one's work > both >> in English (or German) in an international journal > , and locally in the >> national language. For > English-speaking Indologists, the comparable >> practice > would be to publish both an English version in an > international >> journal or book, and a Hindi, Tamil, or > Sanskrit version in India. As Jan >> Houben reported here > on March 3, summaries of the talks at the recent Third >> > International Sanskrit Computational Linguistics Symposium > were made >> available both in English and in Sanskrit. > The traditional philologists and >> pandits who attended > the conference welcomed the Sanskrit version as a step >> > to overcoming the language barrier and establishing mutual > understanding >> with English-speaking Indologists and > computational linguists. >> > >> Paul Kiparsky > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mar 18, 2009, at 5:09 PM, Simon Brodbeck wrote: > >> > >> On Friday 6 March 2009, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: "The > more languages one >> > >>> knows, the better." > >>> > >>> Few would disagree. But that is from the perspective > of the consumer or >>> recipient of texts. Active > researchers are also producers of texts, and must >>> > produce them in one language or another. From this > perspective, one's work >>> will be inaccessible to those > who lack facility with the language in which >>> it is > presented; and the choice of language is therefore a > choice of >>> audience. > >>> > >>> On the issue of financial barriers, it is an ongoing > source of >>> embarrassment and bemusement to myself and > many of my contemporaries that >>> the journals and > publishers we have been led to believe are most highly >>> > esteemed by our institutional elders (in whose hands our > careers lie) tend >>> to be those which most of our > desired audience cannot access. One cannot but >>> suppose > that, as a result, most of the discourse that there is on > >>> indological subjects occurs in contexts systematically > ignorant of certain >>> recent discoveries in indology. > >>> > >>> The UK Arts and Humanities Research Council has been > funding a higher and >>> higher fraction of British > indological research in recent years. My >>> perception is > that the AHRC are increasingly concerned to ensure that > the >>> projects they fund have outputs accessible beyond > the university sector. >>> Perhaps, then, pretty soon, > projects whose principal written outputs are not >>> to be > made freely available online will simply not be publicly > funded. >>> > >>> Simon Brodbeck > >>> Cardiff University > >>> > >>> > > > > > > From Gerard.Huet at INRIA.FR Thu Mar 19 22:02:33 2009 From: Gerard.Huet at INRIA.FR (=?utf-8?Q?G=C3=A9rard_Huet?=) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 23:02:33 +0100 Subject: Translations into Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <20090319222534.32012y3uo5trir0u@mail.uni-leipzig.de> Message-ID: <161227085483.23782.12697374305018201702.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2824 Lines: 84 Pr Minkowski, in his Inaugural Lecture for the Boden Professorship at Oxford, tells about the Sulaimaccaitra, the Life of Sulaymaan (King Solomon). This Sanskrit text was commissioned by prince Laa.dkaan of the Lodi ruling family in Oudh around 1500. Its first 3 chapters deal with King' David's life. This is not a direct translation of biblical stories, and it borrows from Arabic versions, but parts of David's story are not known from arabic sources. GH Le 19 mars 09 ? 22:25, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE a ?crit : > There is Sanskrit translation of the Bible, printed in the grantha > script, from 1863. Perhaps there are earlier ones. > If I remember correctly, Sylvain Levi discusses some evidence for > the translation of the Alexander Legend into Sanskrit in the early > centuries CE. > Best wishes, > EF > > > Quoting Dominik Wujastyk : > >> >> Samr?? Jagann?tha translated Euclid into Sanskrit at the court >> of Jayasi?ha (1688-1743). Ed by Kamal??a?kara >> Pr??a?a?kara Trived?, Bombay: Nir?asas?gara Press, 1901. >> It was the Nasir ad-Din al-Tusi's Arabic tr. of Euclid that was >> translated, not the original Greek. >> >> Michael Dodson has written a good article on Ballantyne's 19th >> century efforts in Benares to present European science of the time >> in Sanskrit treatises. He and his pandits produced treatises for >> example on chemistry, the moon, and other topics. See >> http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=100309 >> >> Lancelot Wilkinson and his pandit Bapu Deva Sastri too worked on >> translating Arabic and European astronomical treatises into >> Sanskrit. See Minikowski's paper in Michaels' book The Pandit (http://books.google.com/books?id=0TtuAAAAMAAJ&pgis=1 >> ) and other papers. >> >> Best, >> -- >> Dr Dominik Wujastyk >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Sven Sellmer wrote: >> >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> lately I was asked about early translations into Sanskrit and >>> noticed that this is quite an interesting question I know little >>> about. Is anybody aware of articles or books on this topic? In >>> particular, I would be curious to learn about the earliest >>> translations into Sanskrit of texts originally composed in >>> languages others than Middle Indo-Aryan ones (as only these I >>> would consider translations in the full sense). >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> Sven Sellmer >>> >>> ************************************ >>> Dr. Sven Sellmer >>> Adam Mickiewicz University >>> Institute of Oriental Studies >>> South Asia Unit >>> ul. 28 czerwca 1956 r. nr 198 >>> 61-485 Pozna? >>> POLAND >>> sven at amu.edu.pl > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > From vbd203 at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Fri Mar 20 03:17:38 2009 From: vbd203 at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (victor davella) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 09 23:17:38 -0400 Subject: Translations into Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <9A3C5127-BD69-41EA-B0F8-64E9D54D5BDB@inria.fr> Message-ID: <161227085489.23782.4765826282690776485.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3137 Lines: 99 Prof. Minkowski's inaugural address can be found on his website here: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~ball2185/ It's quite a good read. Best, Victor PhD Candidate MEALAC Columbia University On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 6:02 PM, G?rard Huet wrote: > Pr Minkowski, in his Inaugural Lecture for the Boden Professorship at > Oxford, > tells about the Sulaimaccaitra, the Life of Sulaymaan (King Solomon). > This Sanskrit text was commissioned by prince Laa.dkaan of the > Lodi ruling family in Oudh around 1500. Its first 3 chapters deal with > King' David's life. > This is not a direct translation of biblical stories, > and it borrows from Arabic versions, but parts of David's story are not > known from arabic sources. > GH > > > Le 19 mars 09 ? 22:25, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE a ?crit : > > > There is Sanskrit translation of the Bible, printed in the grantha script, >> from 1863. Perhaps there are earlier ones. >> If I remember correctly, Sylvain Levi discusses some evidence for the >> translation of the Alexander Legend into Sanskrit in the early centuries CE. >> Best wishes, >> EF >> >> >> Quoting Dominik Wujastyk : >> >> >>> Samr?? Jagann?tha translated Euclid into Sanskrit at the court of >>> Jayasi?ha (1688-1743). Ed by Kamal??a?kara Pr??a?a?kara Trived?, Bombay: >>> Nir?asas?gara Press, 1901. It was the Nasir ad-Din al-Tusi's Arabic tr. of >>> Euclid that was translated, not the original Greek. >>> >>> Michael Dodson has written a good article on Ballantyne's 19th century >>> efforts in Benares to present European science of the time in Sanskrit >>> treatises. He and his pandits produced treatises for example on chemistry, >>> the moon, and other topics. See >>> >>> http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=100309 >>> >>> Lancelot Wilkinson and his pandit Bapu Deva Sastri too worked on >>> translating Arabic and European astronomical treatises into Sanskrit. See >>> Minikowski's paper in Michaels' book The Pandit ( >>> http://books.google.com/books?id=0TtuAAAAMAAJ&pgis=1) and other papers. >>> >>> Best, >>> -- >>> Dr Dominik Wujastyk >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Sven Sellmer wrote: >>> >>> Dear Colleagues, >>>> >>>> lately I was asked about early translations into Sanskrit and noticed >>>> that this is quite an interesting question I know little about. Is anybody >>>> aware of articles or books on this topic? In particular, I would be curious >>>> to learn about the earliest translations into Sanskrit of texts originally >>>> composed in languages others than Middle Indo-Aryan ones (as only these I >>>> would consider translations in the full sense). >>>> >>>> Best wishes, >>>> Sven Sellmer >>>> >>>> ************************************ >>>> Dr. Sven Sellmer >>>> Adam Mickiewicz University >>>> Institute of Oriental Studies >>>> South Asia Unit >>>> ul. 28 czerwca 1956 r. nr 198 >>>> 61-485 Pozna? >>>> POLAND >>>> sven at amu.edu.pl >>>> >>> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. >> >> >> From cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET Fri Mar 20 11:12:04 2009 From: cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET (George Cardona) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 09 07:12:04 -0400 Subject: Legal constraints (la Message-ID: <161227085501.23782.5600109656865508274.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6899 Lines: 153 Dear all, Red: What is the situation in India? Is it possible to write a Ph.D. thesis in Sanskrit? >?From my experience with Sanskrit universities in India, principally the Sampuur.naananda Sa.msk.rta Vi'svavidyaalaya.h in Varanasi, Sanskrit is regularly used as the medium for doctoral dissertations. Cordially, George -----Original Message----- >From: Jean-Luc Chevillard >Sent: Mar 19, 2009 8:25 AM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: Legal constraints (la "Loi Toubon") [Re: Language barriers --- financial barriers > >As a contribution to the debate, I would like to mention another >parameter, namely the legal constraints that vary from country to country. > >It is (in normal conditions) against the law to write a Ph.D. thesis in >English if you study at a French university. > >See the following link: > > > >where you will find the "Article 11", of the "LOI n? 94-665 du 4 ao?t >1994 relative ? l'emploi de la langue fran?aise" (known as "Loi Toubon") >which says: > >"La langue de l'enseignement, des examens et concours, ainsi que des >th?ses et m?moires dans les ?tablissements publics et priv?s >d'enseignement est le fran?ais, sauf exceptions justifi?es par les >n?cessit?s de l'enseignement des langues et cultures r?gionales ou >?trang?res ou lorsque les enseignants sont des professeurs associ?s ou >invit?s ?trangers." > >I have heard that in Germany a Ph.D. thesis can be written in English, >but I would like to have confirmation of that fact. > >I am under the impression that in Italy, a Ph.D. thesis must be in italian. > >What is the situation in India? Is it possible to write a Ph.D. thesis >in Sanskrit? > >The consequence of the French legal constraints is that a French Ph.D. >thesis in the field of Indology has to be translated into English before >it can hope to reach an international audience >(and translation into Sanskrit, or Tamil, can probably only be viewed as >a third step). > >Of course, there are people in France who realize that this situation is >problematic, but there are other people who fight strongly against any >change. > > >-- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS, Universit? Paris-Diderot Paris 7) > > >veeranarayana Pandurangi a ?crit : >> Certainly, I welcome prof. Kiparsky's suggestion. >> >> It is what suggested by me there in hyderabad seminar. What I pointed is >> that Prof. Kiparsky, prof. Houben, prof. Stall and very few others have >> contributed very much grammatical tradition of panini, on the subject that >> prof. Houben spoke there. But most of these researches are in english, which >> is mostly onknown to most of the very good traditional Samskrita scholars >> who fortunatley still are keeping alive the panini's tradition. simlar is >> the case of other shastras still rigorously studied in India, Nyaya, >> Vyakarana, Mimamsa, Vedanta, Sahitya. [...] >> >> >> Hence those writing in socalled international language i.e. English should >> also publish in samskrita (not sanskrit) and technical language that >> includes and that is original to paninian tradition, then the intended >> result can be acheived. people should be made aware of these things. Many of >> you may know oldtimer pandita manners very well while visiting india. >> >> [....] >> >> Similarly people should practice writing in sanskrit. Sure I know that will >> have their no impact on their career in US universities and elsewhere, but >> then english writing will have no result though writer may become profesor. >> >> I dont say it is solely the fault of people writing in english or language >> itself, the sin is shared by Pandits also by not responding to these >> writngs. but then there come all the barriers. we have a strike a balance to >> overcome it. By writing in Samskrita one will only contribute more to >> language he studies, and nothing udesired thing will happen. >> >> This is what I spoke in Hyderabad. >> >> It is upto the scholars to workout. >> veeranarayana >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Paul Kiparsky >> wrote: >> >> >>> If you want your work to be accessible to linguistically disjoint >>> audiences, why write it up in just one language? In smaller European >>> countries it is, or at any rate used to be, usual to publish one's work both >>> in English (or German) in an international journal, and locally in the >>> national language. For English-speaking Indologists, the comparable >>> practice would be to publish both an English version in an international >>> journal or book, and a Hindi, Tamil, or Sanskrit version in India. As Jan >>> Houben reported here on March 3, summaries of the talks at the recent Third >>> International Sanskrit Computational Linguistics Symposium were made >>> available both in English and in Sanskrit. The traditional philologists and >>> pandits who attended the conference welcomed the Sanskrit version as a step >>> to overcoming the language barrier and establishing mutual understanding >>> with English-speaking Indologists and computational linguists. >>> >>> Paul Kiparsky >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mar 18, 2009, at 5:09 PM, Simon Brodbeck wrote: >>> >>> On Friday 6 March 2009, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: "The more languages one >>> >>>> knows, the better." >>>> >>>> Few would disagree. But that is from the perspective of the consumer or >>>> recipient of texts. Active researchers are also producers of texts, and must >>>> produce them in one language or another. From this perspective, one's work >>>> will be inaccessible to those who lack facility with the language in which >>>> it is presented; and the choice of language is therefore a choice of >>>> audience. >>>> >>>> On the issue of financial barriers, it is an ongoing source of >>>> embarrassment and bemusement to myself and many of my contemporaries that >>>> the journals and publishers we have been led to believe are most highly >>>> esteemed by our institutional elders (in whose hands our careers lie) tend >>>> to be those which most of our desired audience cannot access. One cannot but >>>> suppose that, as a result, most of the discourse that there is on >>>> indological subjects occurs in contexts systematically ignorant of certain >>>> recent discoveries in indology. >>>> >>>> The UK Arts and Humanities Research Council has been funding a higher and >>>> higher fraction of British indological research in recent years. My >>>> perception is that the AHRC are increasingly concerned to ensure that the >>>> projects they fund have outputs accessible beyond the university sector. >>>> Perhaps, then, pretty soon, projects whose principal written outputs are not >>>> to be made freely available online will simply not be publicly funded. >>>> >>>> Simon Brodbeck >>>> Cardiff University >>>> >>>> >> >> >> From cbpicron at GMX.DE Fri Mar 20 07:45:00 2009 From: cbpicron at GMX.DE (Claudine Bautze-Picron) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 09 08:45:00 +0100 Subject: Bangles In-Reply-To: <6D4A4C70-6C88-4D01-AE7D-E8B1B04E4556@mac.com> Message-ID: <161227085497.23782.5061124804517519344.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1076 Lines: 44 Your student might have a look at : S.P. Tewari, Nuupura, the anklet in Indian literature and art, with a foreword by C. Sivaramamurti, Delhi: Agam Kala Prakashan, 1982. CBP. -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Mary Storm Sent: Donnerstag, 19. M?rz 2009 06:03 To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Bangles Dear Indologists, I am writing on behalf of a student who is doing a research project on the place of bangles in Indian society. She is looking at images (plenty, not a problem!) and she is also searching for poetic references (not so successful). I hope that one of you could offer up some possible poetic references. I can only think of the poem by Sarojini Naidu. Any help would be most appreciated. Thank you so much for your thoughts! Mary Mary Storm, Ph.D. Academic Director North India Arts and Culture and Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture SIT Study Abroad School for International Training www.sit.edu Mobile +91 98106 98003 F-301 Lado Sarai 2nd Fl New Delhi 110030 India From brendan.gillon at MCGILL.CA Fri Mar 20 13:09:31 2009 From: brendan.gillon at MCGILL.CA (Brendan Gillon) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 09 09:09:31 -0400 Subject: Thanks Message-ID: <161227085504.23782.10756956604231356674.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 819 Lines: 26 Dear colleagues, Thanks to those of you who responded with information about the relative states of the cultural heritages of Europe and India. I shall be monitoring all other information which comes in with respect to this matter. It seems to me that, properly marshalled, this information can serve as a very powerful argument to increase funds to at least those parts of Indological studies which can help to mitigate the risk of loss. Best wishes, Brendan Gillon -- Brendan S. Gillon email: brendan.gillon at mcgill.ca Department of Linguistics McGill University tel.: 001 514 398 4868 1085, Avenue Docteur-Penfield Montreal, Quebec fax.: 001 514 398 7088 H3A 1A7 CANADA webpage: http://www.mcgill.ca/linguistics/people/gillon/ From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Fri Mar 20 04:22:40 2009 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 09 09:52:40 +0530 Subject: Classical heritages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085494.23782.1969086291573122931.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1605 Lines: 44 On 19 Mar 2009, at 22:26, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > The National Mission for Manuscripts (http://www.namami.org/) > works with a figure of seven million, if I remember correctly. > NAMAMI has conducted surveys, the results of which are here: > > http://www.namami.org/nationalsurvey.htm > > I find the results raise questions for me: the numbers of MSS seem > rather low. Maybe they are only looking at non-library > repositories? There are other questions: In 2004-5, in Bihar, > Orissa and UP, 650,000 manuscripts were documented in about 35,000 > repositories. That means each repository had 18.6 MSS. Nobody has > that few MSS. The NMM database reveals that it has not been covering quite a number of larger MS collections so far. > > Is it more meritorious to throw MSS into a river (as documented by > Prof. KT Pandurangi in his 1978 booklet "The Wealth of Sanskrit > Manuscripts in India and Abroad" (http://books.google.nl/books?id=ahZ2AAAAIAAJ > ). Oblation into fire is also an option. The following is from Trilocana"siva's C12th Praaya"scittasamuccaya (currently being edited by Dr. R. Sathyanarayanan in Pondicherry): jiir.naa"nga.m yat svasiddhaanta.m pustaka.m tad gh.rtaaplutam| agniku.n.de tu hotavya.m hutvaaghora"sata.m japet|| 188|| `A manuscript of one's own tradition that is worn in parts should be suffused with ghee and oblated in the fire-pit. After oblating it, one should recite the aghora-mantra 100 times.' Dominic Goodall Pondicherry Centre, Ecole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient ("French School of Asian Studies"), Pondicherry From paolo.magnone at UNICATT.IT Fri Mar 20 18:22:52 2009 From: paolo.magnone at UNICATT.IT (Paolo Magnone) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 09 19:22:52 +0100 Subject: Help preserve cultural diversity (Was: Language barriers --- financial barriers) In-Reply-To: <001901c9a826$fefff260$0301a8c0@Simonpoot> Message-ID: <161227085507.23782.8330706255696916648.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5297 Lines: 92 Dear friends, As this thread lingers on, I cannot help being baffled by the fact that the aspects of the problem that loomed large in my thoughts right from the first announce of it, to wit its broadly cultural, pedagogic, indeed even political implications, have not ever been so much as barely mentioned by anyone. I wonder whether this avoidance has been deliberate, as a potentially troublesome topic, or whether there is simply no widespread sensitivity to those aspects. But as more or less subtle insinuations that only English is worth being THE language of indological scholarship ? and indeed, why not, of any scholarship ? multiply, I thought I should ?give my two cents?, to use an expression that would never occur to me if I were writing in Italian (we do not use money metaphors ? or for that matter, we do not refer to money ? nearly as pervasively as they do in (American) English). This example helps to make my point: at the risk of stating the obvious, language is not a neutral instrument, but is integral with the world view it opens up. In Gadamer?s well-known words, ?erst mit der Sprache geht die Welt auf?. Or, to use another expression only roughly translatable into English, language is die ?Zusammengeh?rigkeit? (the interconnection or mutual pertinence) of the subject and the world. To some extent, the thinking and /ipso facto /speaking subject is ?spoken? by the language as much as he speaks it. He can never transcend the linguistic world, but through other languages he can gain access to the worlds of others. Now, like all other objects, India is different ? was opened up different ? in the different worlds. While I don?t want to belabour this point (who does not admire the pioneering work of the English fathers of indology?) I certainly would not like to give up ? just as an example ? a world envisioning India as a ?Land der Sehnsucht... [ein] Wunderreich... eine verzauberte Welt... [ein] gesuchtes Land, ein wesentliches Moment der ganzen Geschichte? (Hegel), in favour of another, where we are made to ask ourselves whether ?we shall countenance, at public expense?, preserving the culture of a land with an ?Astronomy, which would move laughter in girls at an English boarding school, History, abounding with kings thirty feet high, and reigns thirty thousand years long, and Geography, made up of seas of treacle and seas of butter? (English politician, historian and /poet/ Macaulay, only some fifteen-twenty years later). Of course, it would be unfair to the extreme to put a Macaulay up against Hegel (and a politician up against a philosopher); still, apart from the two personalities in themselves, I suspect there is as much typically Anglosaxon matter-of-factness speaking in Macaulay?s infamous ?Minute on Indian Education? as there is typically German longing for the ineffable transfactual in Hegel?s winged eulogy of India. (By the way, Macaulay would have seconded the motion that indologists should give up writing in their respective mother tongues in favour of English, a language which in his opinion ?stands pre-eminent even among the languages of the west?, embodying a literature ?of far greater value than all the literature which three hundred years ago was extant in all the languages of the world together?). To leave that heroic age of the beginnings (the age of the ?Renaissance orientale?, contributed to by many but eminently embodied by German Romanticism and bringing final fulfilment to that ideal of integral Humanism which was the promise of the first Rinascimento of Italian make) and to come to present day indology: all due allowance being made for the personalities and even idiosyncrasies of the individual scholars, there are unmistakably different flavours of indological scholarship that find expression in the different linguistic worlds. Whatever one may think of their respective worth, linguistic uniformity subtends cultural uniformity, which to me is an evil in itself, to be averted at all costs (and at that, I daresay the world is not faring particularly well with the globalized angloamerican monoculture :-). Let us preserve bio-diversity, let us preserve the rare indigenous varieties of cultural crops! -- Paolo Magnone Lingua e letteratura sanscrita Universit? Cattolica di Milano Jambudvipa - Indology and Sanskrit Studies (www.jambudvipa.net) PS - As for the concern raised by the very title of this thread, that the babel of tongues might constitute a barrier to the propagation of indological knowledge I cannot do better than quote the well-known /subh??ita/: /anantap?ra? kila ?abda??stra? svalpa? tath?yur bahava? ca vighn?? s?ra? tato gr?hyam ap?sya phalgu ha?sair yath? k??ram iv?mbumadhy?t. /Someone else may fancy that he would positively peruse /all/ literature relevant to his field /if only/ it were written in English; as for me, I candidly admit to being unable to attain omniscience anyway; there are sure huge amounts of knowledge that escape my grasp in spite of being couched in English (or Italian, or...); on the other hand, I may go for something that I regard as really /s?ravat/ even if it is enshrined (I would say, rather than concealed) in some of the more out-of-the-way tongues. From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Sat Mar 21 04:04:50 2009 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 09 21:04:50 -0700 Subject: Bangles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085513.23782.8487255519162247995.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2597 Lines: 91 Is your student's focus only on North-Indian/Hindi/Sanskritic material? If she would be interested in knowing about the "role" of bangles, armlets, and so on in the South, I can provide many references from Tamil (starting from old/classical literature to modern movies) and also discuss some religious/social significance of bangles. If you would like, I can send you a PDF document with the references in Tamil poetry (gathered through a computerized search program). But then your student may have to find someone locally to translate the material for her (or, I can help her electronically). Just let me know. Thanks. Regards, V.S. Rajam On Mar 20, 2009, at 7:53 PM, Mary Storm wrote: > Dear Indologists, > > Thank you so much for the bangle angle. Any new thoughts as they > jingle and clink into consciousness would be most gratefully received. > > I am trying to remember a poem in Hindi about a man thinking of > his lover as he finds a fragment of her bangle in his bed. . . > anyone know what I am talking about?? > > Thanks!! > Mary > > > Mary Storm, Ph.D. > Academic Director > North India Arts and Culture > and > Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture > SIT Study Abroad > School for International Training > www.sit.edu > > Mobile +91 98106 98003 > F-301 Lado Sarai > 2nd Fl > New Delhi 110030 India > > On 20-Mar-09, at 1:15 PM, Claudine Bautze-Picron wrote: > >> Your student might have a look at : >> S.P. Tewari, Nuupura, the anklet in Indian literature and art, with a >> foreword by C. Sivaramamurti, Delhi: Agam Kala Prakashan, 1982. >> >> CBP. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Mary >> Storm >> Sent: Donnerstag, 19. M?rz 2009 06:03 >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Subject: Bangles >> >> Dear Indologists, >> >> I am writing on behalf of a student who is doing a research >> project on >> the place of bangles in Indian society. She is looking at images >> (plenty, not a problem!) and she is also searching for poetic >> references (not so successful). I hope that one of you could offer up >> some possible poetic references. I can only think of the poem by >> Sarojini Naidu. >> >> Any help would be most appreciated. >> >> Thank you so much for your thoughts! >> >> Mary >> >> >> Mary Storm, Ph.D. >> Academic Director >> North India Arts and Culture >> and >> Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture >> SIT Study Abroad >> School for International Training >> www.sit.edu >> >> Mobile +91 98106 98003 >> F-301 Lado Sarai >> 2nd Fl >> New Delhi 110030 India From mnstorm at MAC.COM Sat Mar 21 02:53:13 2009 From: mnstorm at MAC.COM (Mary Storm) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 09 08:23:13 +0530 Subject: Bangles In-Reply-To: <002c01c9a92f$c6d143d0$5473cb70$@de> Message-ID: <161227085510.23782.1705228482052969341.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1790 Lines: 74 Dear Indologists, Thank you so much for the bangle angle. Any new thoughts as they jingle and clink into consciousness would be most gratefully received. I am trying to remember a poem in Hindi about a man thinking of his lover as he finds a fragment of her bangle in his bed. . . anyone know what I am talking about?? Thanks!! Mary Mary Storm, Ph.D. Academic Director North India Arts and Culture and Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture SIT Study Abroad School for International Training www.sit.edu Mobile +91 98106 98003 F-301 Lado Sarai 2nd Fl New Delhi 110030 India On 20-Mar-09, at 1:15 PM, Claudine Bautze-Picron wrote: > Your student might have a look at : > S.P. Tewari, Nuupura, the anklet in Indian literature and art, with a > foreword by C. Sivaramamurti, Delhi: Agam Kala Prakashan, 1982. > > CBP. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Mary > Storm > Sent: Donnerstag, 19. M?rz 2009 06:03 > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Bangles > > Dear Indologists, > > I am writing on behalf of a student who is doing a research project on > the place of bangles in Indian society. She is looking at images > (plenty, not a problem!) and she is also searching for poetic > references (not so successful). I hope that one of you could offer up > some possible poetic references. I can only think of the poem by > Sarojini Naidu. > > Any help would be most appreciated. > > Thank you so much for your thoughts! > > Mary > > > Mary Storm, Ph.D. > Academic Director > North India Arts and Culture > and > Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture > SIT Study Abroad > School for International Training > www.sit.edu > > Mobile +91 98106 98003 > F-301 Lado Sarai > 2nd Fl > New Delhi 110030 India From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Sat Mar 21 04:57:35 2009 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 09 10:27:35 +0530 Subject: Macaulay In-Reply-To: <49C3DEFC.5000600@unicatt.it> Message-ID: <161227085517.23782.10598134485802923650.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3899 Lines: 74 A quibble: I think I can see what you mean about "Anglosaxon matter-of-factness", but I wonder whether it is really best illustrated by Macaulay's monstrous purple prose. Macaulay gets so carried away by the power of his own rhetoric, it seems to me, that he no longer knows himself when he is being entirely sincere. Here's another passage, tending in the opposite direction, which may be very seductive as a piece of magniloquent oratory, but which again seems to me (particularly when laid beside the infamous "Minute...") somewhat hollow. ``The people of India, when we subdued them, were ten times as numerous as the Americans whom the Spaniards vanquished, and were at the same time quite as highly civilised as the victorious Spaniards. They had reared cities larger and fairer than Saragossa or Toledo, and buildings more beautiful and costly than the cathedral of Seville. They could show bankers richer than the richest firms of Barcelona or Cadiz, viceroys whose splendour far surpassed that of Ferdinand the Catholic, myriads of cavalry and long trains of artillery which would have astonished the Great Captain. It might have been expected, that every Englishman who takes any interest in any part of history would be curious to know how a handful of his countrymen, separated from their home by an immense ocean, subjugated, in the course of a few years, one of the greatest empires in the world.'' [From Macaulay's review of : The Life of Robert Lord Clive; collected from the Family Papers, communicated by the Earl of Powis. By MAJOR- GENERAL SIR JOHN MALCOLM, K.C.B. 3 vols. 8vo. London: 1836.] What Macaulay rather illustrates, I think, is brilliant parliamentary bombast disguised as "matter-of-factness". Dominic Goodall Pondicherry Centre, Ecole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient ("French School of Asian Studies"), Pondicherry > > Now, like all other objects, India is different ? was opened up > different ? in the different worlds. While I don?t want to belabour > this point (who does not admire the pioneering work of the English > fathers of indology?) I certainly would not like to give up ? just > as an example ? a world envisioning India as a ?Land der > Sehnsucht... [ein] Wunderreich... eine verzauberte Welt... [ein] > gesuchtes Land, ein wesentliches Moment der ganzen > Geschichte? (Hegel), in favour of another, where we are made to ask > ourselves whether ?we shall countenance, at public expense?, > preserving the culture of a land with an ?Astronomy, which would > move laughter in girls at an English boarding school, History, > abounding with kings thirty feet high, and reigns thirty thousand > years long, and Geography, made up of seas of treacle and seas of > butter? (English politician, historian and /poet/ Macaulay, only > some fifteen-twenty years later). Of course, it would be unfair to > the extreme to put a Macaulay up against Hegel (and a politician up > against a philosopher); still, apart from the two personalities in > themselves, I suspect there is as much typically Anglosaxon matter- > of-factness speaking in Macaulay?s infamous ?Minute on Indian > Education? as there is typically German longing for the ineffable > transfactual in Hegel?s winged eulogy of India. (By the way, > Macaulay would have seconded the motion that indologists should give > up writing in their respective mother tongues in favour of English, > a language which in his opinion ?stands pre-eminent even among the > languages of the west?, embodying a literature ?of far greater value > than all the literature which three hundred years ago was extant in > all the languages of the world together?). > > -- > Paolo Magnone > Lingua e letteratura sanscrita > Universit? Cattolica di Milano > > Jambudvipa - Indology and Sanskrit Studies (www.jambudvipa.net) From jean.fezas at WANADOO.FR Sat Mar 21 09:55:31 2009 From: jean.fezas at WANADOO.FR (Jean Fezas) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 09 10:55:31 +0100 Subject: Bible and New Testament: translations from hebrew and greek to sanskrit In-Reply-To: <20090319222534.32012y3uo5trir0u@mail.uni-leipzig.de> Message-ID: <161227085520.23782.12201449314932086377.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6454 Lines: 122 For a sanskrit tranlation of the Bible see: The Holy Bible in the sanskrit language... translated out of the original tongues [ibrIya-bhASAtaH : from the Hebrew language] by the Calcutta Baptist Missionaries, with native assistants; printed at the Baptist Mission Press (See http://www.wmcarey.edu/carey/baptmisspress/bmp.htm), circular road; Calcutta The copy I have in my hands was withdrawn from the Bowdoin College Library,to which it had been given by Rev. James L. Phillips, from Bapt. missn. India, acq. 1873. All volumes seem to be first (and only) editions... (about James L. Phillips, see http://abacus.bates.edu/Library/aboutladd/departments/special/SubjectGuides/FWB.shtml) 1848 (vol 1)Five books of Moses and the book of Joshua ibrIya-bhASAto vyAkRtaH / dharma-granthaH /tasya prathamaM khaNDaM / yad vA / mUsasA racitaM grantha-paJcakaM / yihozUya-pustakaJ ca [414 pp. written throughout in prosa] 1852 (vol 2)The historical books from judges to Esther ibrIya-bhASAto vyAkRtaH / dharma-granthaH / tasya dvitIyaM khaNDaM / yad vA / yihozUyasya maraNAt param isrAyelIya-lokAnAM purAvRtta-pustaka-saGgrahaH [493 pp. mainly prosa, with interspersed verses] 1858 (vol 3)The poetical and devotional books from Job to Canticles, ibrIya-bhASAto vyAkRtaH / dharma-granthaH / tasya tRtIyaM khaNDaM / yad vA / AyUvasya caritra-pustakaM / gIta-saMhitA / rAjJA sulemanA racitAni kavyAni ca [344 pp. written throughout in verses (epic zloka)] 1872 (vol 4)The prophetical books ibrIya-bhASAto vyAkRtaH / dharma-granthaH /tasya caturthaM khaNDaM / yad vA / yizAyiyAdInAM bhaviSyad-vAdinAM / grantha-saGgrahaH [538 pp. verses and prosa interspersed] Character is Nagari, saMdhi is often neglected for the sake of clarity, words being separated in a fashion reminding of DD Kosambi's edition(s) of Bhartrhari's. Translations are accurate and the sanskrit is correct. Luckily, in contradistinction with a lot of works printed in India during this period, the paper is still very good... For a translation of the New Testament [yUnAnIya-bhASAtaH 'from the greek language'], we have by the same publishers : 1851 The New Testament of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ (second edition) prabhunA yIzukhrISTena nirUpitasya nUtana-dharmma-niyamasya grantha-saGgrahaH IMlaNDIya-vaGgadezIya-paNDitair yUnAnIya-bhASAto vyAkRtaH [700 pp. all prosa] Was this New Testament a library success ? On the reverse of the title page, we get the following figures : Testament Complete: 1st Edition Copies 1000 / 2nd Edition " 2500 Four Gospels and the Acts : 1st Edition 500 / 2nd Edition 1500 / 3rd Edition 2500 Four gospels and the Acts separately: 1st Edition 19500 / 2nd Edition 12500 / 3rd Edition 12500 Luke and Acts, together: one Edition 1500 Hoping it might help... J. Fezas, Professeur (Langue et litt?rature sanskrites,) Directeur UFR Orient et Monde Arabe, Universit? Paris-3 Sorbonne Nouvelle (Pr.Dr. J. Fezas, (Sanskrit Language and Literature), Dean of the Faculty 'Orient et Monde Arabe', Paris-3 Sorbonne Nouvelle) For those interested, here is a sample of the sanskrit text (Genesis 3, beginning) prabhUnA paramezvareNa sRSTANAM bhUcara-jantUNAM madhye sarpo'tIva khala AsIt| sa tAM nArIm avadat| aye asyodyAnasya kasya cid api pAdapasya phalani bhoktuM paramezvAro yuvAM nyasedhat, kim idaM satyam| tato nArI sarpaM provAca| AvAm etasyodyAnasya sarveSAM viTapinAM phalAni bhoktuM zaknuvaH kevalam udyAna-madhya-sthitasya pAdapasya phalaM pratIzvareNa kathitaM yuvAm etat phalaM mA bhuJjAthAM mA spRzataM ca tat kRtvA mariSyathaH| tadA bhujago nArIM babhASe| yuvAM nizcitaM na mariSyathAH kiM tu yadA tat khAdiSyataH tadA yuvayor locana-prakAzo bhaviSyati| tata Izvara iva bhadrAbhadra-jJAnaM lapsyethe| itIzvaro jAnAti| tadA nArI taM mahIruhaM sukhAdya-phalaM locano-raJjakaM jnAna-labhAya vAJcanIyaM ca vijJAya tasya phalAni zAtayitvA bubhuje| sva-svAmine ca dadau so'pi bhuktavAn| tena tayor ubhayor nayana-prakAzo babhUva| tatas tau svakIya-nagnatAM vijJAya vaTa-pattrANi syUtvA kaTau babandhatuH| -----Message d'origine----- De : Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] De la part de franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Envoy? : jeudi 19 mars 2009 22:26 ? : INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Objet : Re: Translations into Sanskrit There is Sanskrit translation of the Bible, printed in the grantha script, from 1863. Perhaps there are earlier ones. If I remember correctly, Sylvain Levi discusses some evidence for the translation of the Alexander Legend into Sanskrit in the early centuries CE. Best wishes, EF Quoting Dominik Wujastyk : > > Samra? Jagannatha translated Euclid into Sanskrit at the court of > Jayasi?ha (1688-1743). Ed by Kamalasa?kara Pra?asa?kara Trivedi, > Bombay: Nir?asasagara Press, 1901. It was the Nasir ad-Din al-Tusi's > Arabic tr. of Euclid that was translated, not the original Greek. > > Michael Dodson has written a good article on Ballantyne's 19th century > efforts in Benares to present European science of the time in Sanskrit > treatises. He and his pandits produced treatises for example on > chemistry, the moon, and other topics. See > > http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&a > id=100309 > > Lancelot Wilkinson and his pandit Bapu Deva Sastri too worked on > translating Arabic and European astronomical treatises into Sanskrit. > See Minikowski's paper in Michaels' book The Pandit > (http://books.google.com/books?id=0TtuAAAAMAAJ&pgis=1) and other > papers. > > Best, > -- > Dr Dominik Wujastyk > > > > > On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Sven Sellmer wrote: > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> lately I was asked about early translations into Sanskrit and noticed >> that this is quite an interesting question I know little about. Is >> anybody aware of articles or books on this topic? In particular, I >> would be curious to learn about the earliest translations into >> Sanskrit of texts originally composed in languages others than Middle >> Indo-Aryan ones (as only these I would consider translations in the >> full sense). >> >> Best wishes, >> Sven Sellmer >> >> ************************************ >> Dr. Sven Sellmer >> Adam Mickiewicz University >> Institute of Oriental Studies >> South Asia Unit >> ul. 28 czerwca 1956 r. nr 198 >> 61-485 Poznan >> POLAND >> sven at amu.edu.pl ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Sat Mar 21 12:14:20 2009 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 09 13:14:20 +0100 Subject: Classical heritages In-Reply-To: <62949.61.19.65.212.1237516939.squirrel@calmail.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227085527.23782.1193138816395641654.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1856 Lines: 42 On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, FRITS STAAL wrote: > The statement "If you walk into almost any brahman home, there's an almira > somewhere that's packed with MSS." is grossly exaggerated. It applies to a > few homes of brahman families in traditional areas. Well, yes, I did exaggerate a bit, perhaps, but I would still maintain that largish collections of MSS are very, very widespread in private homes. And they are often ignored by the families themselves. I have sat with brahman friends in their sitting rooms, and asked about MSS, and been told absolutely that they have none. Meanwhile, over their shoulders, in the next room I could actually see a cupboard with palm-leaf MSS visible through the glass. When I politely pointed this out, my hosts were surprised in my interest, and seemed not to count these objects as MSS. They were "old stuff" of indeterminate identity. There was no disingenuousness here, or reluctance to display "family treasures". The cupboard full of MSS really didn't "count" in some sense. It was stuff from their grandparents that hadn't been thought about for years and years. More or less junk. I've even had this "manuscript denial" experience in a major library. The Roja Muthia library in Chennai, where I have participated in a major reconstruction project, and where the staff are my personal friends and colleagues, is mainly a book library. In its early days, I asked about MSS. - "There are none." - "What about those bundles of inscribed palm leaves over there?" - "Oh, what, those?" - "Yes." - "Oh, those are just family records of gifts given and recieved at family functions such as weddings, over many past generations." !!! This "MS denial" happens rather often, and needs to be taken into account when assessing whether or not there are MSS in a particular place. Best, Dominik From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Sat Mar 21 12:38:52 2009 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 09 13:38:52 +0100 Subject: Macaulay In-Reply-To: <8994766F-EC6C-4CF1-BBEE-B0E33AF38CCF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227085531.23782.17366883410159545747.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4602 Lines: 95 I am glad Dominic has presented this alternative bit of Macaulayian bombast. Macaulay himself is more complicated than his repellent and much-cited Minute would suggest. But it is in any case so reductionist and essentializing to present Macaulay as the representative voice of Anglophone attitudes to India (or Hegel for the German case) that I think the general point is not well supported by this argument. However, of course I'm all with Magnone for cultural diversity and the rich perspectivism inherent in different languages communities. Best Dominik (with a -k :-) -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk On Sat, 21 Mar 2009, Dominic Goodall wrote: > A quibble: > > I think I can see what you mean about "Anglosaxon matter-of-factness", but I > wonder whether it is really best illustrated by Macaulay's monstrous purple > prose. Macaulay gets so carried away by the power of his own rhetoric, it > seems to me, that he no longer knows himself when he is being entirely > sincere. Here's another passage, tending in the opposite direction, which > may be very seductive as a piece of magniloquent oratory, but which again > seems to me (particularly when laid beside the infamous "Minute...") somewhat > hollow. > > ``The people of India, when we subdued them, were ten times as numerous as > the Americans whom the Spaniards vanquished, and were at the same time quite > as highly civilised as the victorious Spaniards. They had reared cities > larger and fairer than Saragossa or Toledo, and buildings more beautiful and > costly than the cathedral of Seville. They could show bankers richer than the > richest firms of Barcelona or Cadiz, viceroys whose splendour far surpassed > that of Ferdinand the Catholic, myriads of cavalry and long trains of > artillery which would have astonished the Great Captain. It might have been > expected, that every Englishman who takes any interest in any part of history > would be curious to know how a handful of his countrymen, separated from > their home by an immense ocean, subjugated, in the course of a few years, one > of the greatest empires in the world.'' > > [From Macaulay's review of : The Life of Robert Lord Clive; collected from > the Family Papers, communicated by the Earl of Powis. By MAJOR-GENERAL SIR > JOHN MALCOLM, K.C.B. 3 vols. 8vo. London: 1836.] > > What Macaulay rather illustrates, I think, is brilliant parliamentary bombast > disguised as "matter-of-factness". > > Dominic Goodall > Pondicherry Centre, > Ecole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient ("French School of Asian Studies"), > Pondicherry >> >> Now, like all other objects, India is different ? was opened up different ? >> in the different worlds. While I don?t want to belabour this point (who >> does not admire the pioneering work of the English fathers of indology?) I >> certainly would not like to give up ? just as an example ? a world >> envisioning India as a ?Land der Sehnsucht... [ein] Wunderreich... eine >> verzauberte Welt... [ein] gesuchtes Land, ein wesentliches Moment der >> ganzen Geschichte? (Hegel), in favour of another, where we are made to ask >> ourselves whether ?we shall countenance, at public expense?, preserving the >> culture of a land with an ?Astronomy, which would move laughter in girls at >> an English boarding school, History, abounding with kings thirty feet high, >> and reigns thirty thousand years long, and Geography, made up of seas of >> treacle and seas of butter? (English politician, historian and /poet/ >> Macaulay, only some fifteen-twenty years later). Of course, it would be >> unfair to the extreme to put a Macaulay up against Hegel (and a politician >> up against a philosopher); still, apart from the two personalities in >> themselves, I suspect there is as much typically Anglosaxon >> matter-of-factness speaking in Macaulay?s infamous ?Minute on Indian >> Education? as there is typically German longing for the ineffable >> transfactual in Hegel?s winged eulogy of India. (By the way, Macaulay would >> have seconded the motion that indologists should give up writing in their >> respective mother tongues in favour of English, a language which in his >> opinion ?stands pre-eminent even among the languages of the west?, >> embodying a literature ?of far greater value than all the literature which >> three hundred years ago was extant in all the languages of the world >> together?). >> >> -- >> Paolo Magnone >> Lingua e letteratura sanscrita >> Universit? Cattolica di Milano >> >> Jambudvipa - Indology and Sanskrit Studies (www.jambudvipa.net) From reimann at BERKELEY.EDU Sat Mar 21 21:27:16 2009 From: reimann at BERKELEY.EDU (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 09 14:27:16 -0700 Subject: Help preserve cultural diversity (Was: Language barriers --- financial barriers) In-Reply-To: <49C3DEFC.5000600@unicatt.it> Message-ID: <161227085534.23782.14085265580880604895.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1851 Lines: 40 on 3/20/2009 11:22 AM Paolo Magnone wrote: > ... (By the way, Macaulay would have seconded the motion that > indologists should give up writing in their respective mother tongues > in favour of English, a language which in his opinion ?stands > pre-eminent even among the languages of the west?, Dear Paolo, Regardless of Macaulay fanciful opinion about the 'pre-eminence' of English, the fact is that, today, English is the most practical language for international communication, scholarly or otherwise. This is not an ideological, political or imperial matter, but simply a pragmatic one. The current international importance of English is a fact, regardless of where that importance comes from. In that sense, India, with its familiarity with English, has a distinctive advantage over Latin America (and other regions) because, despite Macaulay's fantasies about pre-Columbian America and Spain, publishing in Spanish does prevent you from reaching a wider audience. I say this as someone who has published two Indological books in Spanish. Regarding your words: " Let us preserve bio-diversity, let us preserve the rare indigenous varieties of cultural crops! ," I agree completely of course, but there is a difference between publishing scholarly work in English instead of in one's native language in order to reach an international audience, and publishing in one's native language as a statement in support of that language (or to promote knowledge among the speakers of that language). In any case, they are not mutually exclusive. I concur with 'K' Dominik that it is "reductionist and essentializing to present Macaulay as the representative voice of Anglophone attitudes to India ..." And let us not forget how the expression "Macaulay's Children" is used in a derogatory way. Best, Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann > From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Sat Mar 21 12:05:32 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 09 17:35:32 +0530 Subject: time to change the tune Message-ID: <161227085523.23782.5803729464481415160.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1610 Lines: 55 Dear Dr. Bijlert I regret that I was in a way responsible for the event since I had expressed my own disapproval of the debate in the forum in a personal mail to you. It is good that?sense has prevailed DB --- On Tue, 17/3/09, victor van Bijlert wrote: From: victor van Bijlert Subject: Re: time to change the tune To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 17 March, 2009, 12:23 AM Some days ago I cautiously attempted the same warning. But instead of understanding I was met with barking from various sides at my temerity. This is precisely why a forum or discussionlist needs moderators. Greetings Victor van Bijlert -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Verzonden: maandag 16 maart 2009 9:12 Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Onderwerp: time to change the tune I find the use of the Indology list by our colleagues in Germany to be tiresome in the extreme and not to accord very well with the purposes for which Indology was established. If this continues much longer, I, for one, will withdraw my name from the subscription list. Perhaps a separate listserve dedicated to settling scores in Germany should be contemplated, so that those interested in this will have their own playpen. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris Check out the all-new Messenger 9.0! Go to http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/ From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Sun Mar 22 17:15:42 2009 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 09 18:15:42 +0100 Subject: AW: Help preserve cultural diversity (Was: Language barriers --- financial barriers) Message-ID: <161227085537.23782.6937441497211392171.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2869 Lines: 73 I have great sympathy for Paolo Magnone's point. However, there is one aspect that I see differently. Paolo Magnone wrote: ... I suspect there is as much typically Anglosaxon matter-of-factness speaking in Macaulay's infamous "Minute on Indian Education" as there is typically German longing for the ineffable transfactual in Hegel's winged eulogy of India. ... To leave that heroic age of the beginnings (the age of the "Renaissance orientale", contributed to by many but eminently embodied by German Romanticism ... _______________________ With regard to Hegel, "German longing", Romanticism etc. it may be helpful to take a look at the chapter on Hegel in Wilhelm Halbfa?'s "Indien und Europa". Here are a few quotes from the English translation (1988): p. 86: [Hegel] sought advice and information from his colleague at the University of Berlin, the pioneer Sanskritist and linguist F. Bopp [and read H. T. Colebrooke's first essay "On the Philosophy of the Hindus"], .... [...but, it bears reminding:] p. 85: (...) Hegel was not an indologist. [Paolo Magnone correctly addresses Hegel as a philospher.] p. 95: Hegel's interest in India is inseparable from his anti-Romantic attitude and his criticism of the Romantic glorification of India. However, F. Schlegel himself subsequently revised and modified his evaluation of the Indian tradition, and he distanced himself from the unqualified enthusiasm of his earlier statements. p. 85: Hegel's interest in India is inseparable from that of the Romantics: He was one of the heirs, but also the most rigorous critic of the Romantic conception of India. What distinguishes his approach above all from that of the Romantics is his commitment to the present, and his sense of an irreversible direction of history. He does not glorify origins and early stages. The spirit of world history progresses to greater richness and complexity. What has been in the beginning cannot be richer and more perfect. It may be true that India, as part of the Orient, is a land of "sunrise," of early origins and "childhood." But this does not justify nostalgia and contempt of the European present. We cannot and need not return to the Orient: It is a matter of the past. ______ I may add that, so far, I have not come across a "German indologist" of any description who had a "typically German longing for the ineffable transfactual", or who wanted to reverse the course of history according to a presumed "Oriental" model. This is but a small illustration of the fundamental flaw of Raymond Schwab "Oriental Renaissance". As I have pointed out elsewhere: When Edward Said stumbled across Schwab's book, roughly two decades after its publication (1950), he decided that it had been "unreasonably ignored". This is one point on which I take the liberty to disagree with Said. Reinhold Gr?nendahl From victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL Sun Mar 22 17:35:42 2009 From: victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL (victor van Bijlert) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 09 18:35:42 +0100 Subject: Help preserve cultural diversity (Was: Language barriers --- financial barriers) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085541.23782.17966096233583965184.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4006 Lines: 101 I do not wish to defend British policies from the days of the Company Raj, but I am only pointing to the fact that Macaulay edited the Indian Penal Code which is still in use in South Asia (with the necessary amendments). Moreover, Bengali Renaissance reformers like Raja Rammohun Roy, prince Dwarkanath Tagore and Vidyasagar were far more incisevely critical of the Brahmanical culture of their day than Macaulay ever could be. The fiercest critics of Indian culture were not the British but the Indian reformers themselves. Macaulay's Minute on education was fully endorsed by the then Hindu reformers. The Indian reformers themselves were clamoring for English education. I think we should not forget this fact. Presentday criticism of Macaulay may ultimately be used to tacitly endorse upper-caste Hindu reactionary world-views. Victor van Bijlert -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens Gruenendahl, Reinhold Verzonden: zondag 22 maart 2009 18:16 Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Onderwerp: AW: Help preserve cultural diversity (Was: Language barriers --- financial barriers) I have great sympathy for Paolo Magnone's point. However, there is one aspect that I see differently. Paolo Magnone wrote: ... I suspect there is as much typically Anglosaxon matter-of-factness speaking in Macaulay's infamous "Minute on Indian Education" as there is typically German longing for the ineffable transfactual in Hegel's winged eulogy of India. ... To leave that heroic age of the beginnings (the age of the "Renaissance orientale", contributed to by many but eminently embodied by German Romanticism ... _______________________ With regard to Hegel, "German longing", Romanticism etc. it may be helpful to take a look at the chapter on Hegel in Wilhelm Halbfa?'s "Indien und Europa". Here are a few quotes from the English translation (1988): p. 86: [Hegel] sought advice and information from his colleague at the University of Berlin, the pioneer Sanskritist and linguist F. Bopp [and read H. T. Colebrooke's first essay "On the Philosophy of the Hindus"], .... [...but, it bears reminding:] p. 85: (...) Hegel was not an indologist. [Paolo Magnone correctly addresses Hegel as a philospher.] p. 95: Hegel's interest in India is inseparable from his anti-Romantic attitude and his criticism of the Romantic glorification of India. However, F. Schlegel himself subsequently revised and modified his evaluation of the Indian tradition, and he distanced himself from the unqualified enthusiasm of his earlier statements. p. 85: Hegel's interest in India is inseparable from that of the Romantics: He was one of the heirs, but also the most rigorous critic of the Romantic conception of India. What distinguishes his approach above all from that of the Romantics is his commitment to the present, and his sense of an irreversible direction of history. He does not glorify origins and early stages. The spirit of world history progresses to greater richness and complexity. What has been in the beginning cannot be richer and more perfect. It may be true that India, as part of the Orient, is a land of "sunrise," of early origins and "childhood." But this does not justify nostalgia and contempt of the European present. We cannot and need not return to the Orient: It is a matter of the past. ______ I may add that, so far, I have not come across a "German indologist" of any description who had a "typically German longing for the ineffable transfactual", or who wanted to reverse the course of history according to a presumed "Oriental" model. This is but a small illustration of the fundamental flaw of Raymond Schwab "Oriental Renaissance". As I have pointed out elsewhere: When Edward Said stumbled across Schwab's book, roughly two decades after its publication (1950), he decided that it had been "unreasonably ignored". This is one point on which I take the liberty to disagree with Said. Reinhold Gr?nendahl From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Sun Mar 22 18:53:30 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 09 00:23:30 +0530 Subject: Help preserve cultural diversity (Was: Language barriers --- financial barriers) Message-ID: <161227085544.23782.6886691967647658825.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6854 Lines: 123 The thread may have been lost but perhaps the?question that brought in the topic of culture preservation was the inability of a large number of Indian Sanskritists to understand English. In fact this state of affairs is a creation of current politics. A language of international standing apart from one's mother tongue, must be a part of the curriculum in the University stage. This principle is followed in every civilized society where modern education has made a place for itself.[[Perhaps many in India might experience that?this is not true of Americans ie U.S. citizens. But perhaps, it is really not so. It seems untrue of Americans perhaps because poorly educated Americans too can afford to tour India. They too enter into Institutes of higher study. It is they who leave the poor impression. But the above principle seems to have been followed when one talks with a highly educated American.]] In India misplaced patriotism has been the reason for?banishing English as a compulsory subject?from the University curricula in some states.?Such steps might not greatly harm education?in countries where elaborate arrangement for translation and of quickly getting informed of the latest developments in research exists. This is not possible in India for many reasons -- copyright, prohibitive cost of getting permission, unwillingness of publishers to explore such possibilities. For example, R.H.Robins' General Linguistics has been translated into French. No Indian publisher ever thought of that.? As a result the abolition of English has increased the number of graduates but has?also?caused a severe lowering of the standard of education. Even most of the PhD theses produced in these states cannot be sent to states where a different language is spoken. It is forgotten that?one need not lose one's culture by preparing oneself to get acquainted with researches?being carried?on in the world outside India. On the contrary one enriches oneself and one's culture thereby.That was the reason, explicitly stated by the?reformers of Bengal?in the nineteenth century, for the then?emphasis on English education. Unfortunately,?the?condition is still valid and will remain so till India is industrially an advanced country.? DB ? --- On Sun, 22/3/09, victor van Bijlert wrote: From: victor van Bijlert Subject: Re: Help preserve cultural diversity (Was: Language barriers --- financial barriers) To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Sunday, 22 March, 2009, 11:05 PM I do not wish to defend British policies from the days of the Company Raj, but I am only pointing to the fact that Macaulay edited the Indian Penal Code which is still in use in South Asia (with the necessary amendments). Moreover, Bengali Renaissance reformers like Raja Rammohun Roy, prince Dwarkanath Tagore and Vidyasagar were far more incisevely critical of the Brahmanical culture of their day than Macaulay ever could be. The fiercest critics of Indian culture were not the British but the Indian reformers themselves. Macaulay's Minute on education was fully endorsed by the then Hindu reformers. The Indian reformers themselves were clamoring for English education. I think we should not forget this fact. Presentday criticism of Macaulay may ultimately be used to tacitly endorse upper-caste Hindu reactionary world-views. Victor van Bijlert -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens Gruenendahl, Reinhold Verzonden: zondag 22 maart 2009 18:16 Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Onderwerp: AW: Help preserve cultural diversity (Was: Language barriers --- financial barriers) I have great sympathy for Paolo Magnone's point. However, there is one aspect that I see differently. Paolo Magnone wrote: ... I suspect there is as much typically Anglosaxon matter-of-factness speaking in Macaulay's infamous "Minute on Indian Education" as there is? typically German longing for the ineffable transfactual in Hegel's winged eulogy of India. ... To leave that heroic age of the beginnings (the age of the "Renaissance orientale", contributed to by many but eminently embodied by German Romanticism ... _______________________ With regard to Hegel, "German longing", Romanticism etc. it may be helpful to take a look at the chapter on Hegel in Wilhelm Halbfa?'s "Indien und Europa". Here are a few quotes from the English translation (1988): p. 86: [Hegel] sought advice and information from his colleague at the University of Berlin, the pioneer Sanskritist and linguist F. Bopp [and read H. T. Colebrooke's first essay "On the Philosophy of the Hindus"], .... [...but, it bears reminding:] p. 85: (...) Hegel was not an indologist. [Paolo Magnone correctly addresses Hegel as a philospher.] p. 95: Hegel's interest in India is inseparable from his anti-Romantic attitude and his criticism of the Romantic glorification of India. However, F. Schlegel himself subsequently revised and modified his evaluation of the Indian tradition, and he distanced himself from the unqualified enthusiasm of his earlier statements. p. 85: Hegel's interest in India is inseparable from that of the Romantics: He was one of the heirs, but also the most rigorous critic of the Romantic conception of India. What distinguishes his approach above all from that of the Romantics is his commitment to the present, and his sense of an irreversible direction of history. He does not glorify origins and early stages. The spirit of world history progresses to greater richness and complexity. What has been in the beginning cannot be richer and more perfect. It may be true that India, as part of the Orient, is a land of "sunrise," of early origins and "childhood." But this does not justify nostalgia and contempt of the European present. We cannot and need not return to the Orient: It is a matter of the past. ______ I may add that, so far, I have not come across a "German indologist" of any description who had a "typically German longing for the ineffable transfactual", or who wanted to reverse the course of history according to a presumed "Oriental" model. This is but a small illustration of the fundamental flaw of Raymond Schwab "Oriental Renaissance". As I have pointed out elsewhere: When Edward Said stumbled across Schwab's book, roughly two decades after its publication (1950), he decided that it had been "unreasonably ignored". This is one point on which I take the liberty to disagree with Said. Reinhold Gr?nendahl Connect with friends all over the world. Get Yahoo! India Messenger at http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/?wm=n/ From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Mon Mar 23 14:34:04 2009 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 09 07:34:04 -0700 Subject: Translations into Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <25616_1237814166_1237814166_9C583450-2E75-4DFB-9C75-B51C0215984E@helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <161227085569.23782.3702542427596066480.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 759 Lines: 16 Many translations from Indian and non-Indian languages into Sanskrit have been published in Sanskrit periodicals right from the time of what is considered to be the first periodical in Sanskrit, namely The Pandit or Kaa;sii-vidyaa-sudhaa-nidhi. It has become very difficult to get the issues of several of these periodicals. Some library specializing in their acquisition as well as in the acquisition of the notebooks of highly regarded ;saastrins and pa.n.ditas (in original form or in copies) needs to be created. My efforts in this regard with the Ramkrishna Dalmia Shrivani Alankaran Nyaas Endowment (supporter of the most generous award for writing in modern Sanskrit of which am aware) in New Delhi have so far not been successful. ashok aklujkar From victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL Mon Mar 23 07:58:36 2009 From: victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL (victor van Bijlert) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 09 08:58:36 +0100 Subject: Help preserve cultural diversity (Was: Language barriers --- financial barriers) In-Reply-To: <816938.95789.qm@web8604.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227085553.23782.15275626289708028774.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7792 Lines: 175 Not only the gradual loss of English is to be deplored. Also Sanskrit had been thrown out of the educational system in some Indian states, with the result that the knowledge of the vernacular State language also suffers. Many words in e.g. Hindi or Bengali are tatsama's. Spelling-errors also increasingly occur as a result of lack of knowledge about the word-formation of tatsama's. Many users of Indian languages are probably not even aware anymore of the parent language from which many of their loanwords have issued. Of course the Bengali reformers like Rammohun and Vidyasagar pleaded for English education (in English) but still knew their Sanskrit. -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens Dipak Bhattacharya Verzonden: zondag 22 maart 2009 19:54 Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Onderwerp: Re: Help preserve cultural diversity (Was: Language barriers --- financial barriers) The thread may have been lost but perhaps the?question that brought in the topic of culture preservation was the inability of a large number of Indian Sanskritists to understand English. In fact this state of affairs is a creation of current politics. A language of international standing apart from one's mother tongue, must be a part of the curriculum in the University stage. This principle is followed in every civilized society where modern education has made a place for itself.[[Perhaps many in India might experience that?this is not true of Americans ie U.S. citizens. But perhaps, it is really not so. It seems untrue of Americans perhaps because poorly educated Americans too can afford to tour India. They too enter into Institutes of higher study. It is they who leave the poor impression. But the above principle seems to have been followed when one talks with a highly educated American.]] In India misplaced patriotism has been the reason for?banishing English as a compulsory subject?from the University curricula in some states.?Such steps might not greatly harm education?in countries where elaborate arrangement for translation and of quickly getting informed of the latest developments in research exists. This is not possible in India for many reasons -- copyright, prohibitive cost of getting permission, unwillingness of publishers to explore such possibilities. For example, R.H.Robins' General Linguistics has been translated into French. No Indian publisher ever thought of that.? As a result the abolition of English has increased the number of graduates but has?also?caused a severe lowering of the standard of education. Even most of the PhD theses produced in these states cannot be sent to states where a different language is spoken. It is forgotten that?one need not lose one's culture by preparing oneself to get acquainted with researches?being carried?on in the world outside India. On the contrary one enriches oneself and one's culture thereby.That was the reason, explicitly stated by the?reformers of Bengal?in the nineteenth century, for the then?emphasis on English education. Unfortunately,?the?condition is still valid and will remain so till India is industrially an advanced country.? DB ? --- On Sun, 22/3/09, victor van Bijlert wrote: From: victor van Bijlert Subject: Re: Help preserve cultural diversity (Was: Language barriers --- financial barriers) To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Sunday, 22 March, 2009, 11:05 PM I do not wish to defend British policies from the days of the Company Raj, but I am only pointing to the fact that Macaulay edited the Indian Penal Code which is still in use in South Asia (with the necessary amendments). Moreover, Bengali Renaissance reformers like Raja Rammohun Roy, prince Dwarkanath Tagore and Vidyasagar were far more incisevely critical of the Brahmanical culture of their day than Macaulay ever could be. The fiercest critics of Indian culture were not the British but the Indian reformers themselves. Macaulay's Minute on education was fully endorsed by the then Hindu reformers. The Indian reformers themselves were clamoring for English education. I think we should not forget this fact. Presentday criticism of Macaulay may ultimately be used to tacitly endorse upper-caste Hindu reactionary world-views. Victor van Bijlert -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens Gruenendahl, Reinhold Verzonden: zondag 22 maart 2009 18:16 Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Onderwerp: AW: Help preserve cultural diversity (Was: Language barriers --- financial barriers) I have great sympathy for Paolo Magnone's point. However, there is one aspect that I see differently. Paolo Magnone wrote: ... I suspect there is as much typically Anglosaxon matter-of-factness speaking in Macaulay's infamous "Minute on Indian Education" as there is? typically German longing for the ineffable transfactual in Hegel's winged eulogy of India. ... To leave that heroic age of the beginnings (the age of the "Renaissance orientale", contributed to by many but eminently embodied by German Romanticism ... _______________________ With regard to Hegel, "German longing", Romanticism etc. it may be helpful to take a look at the chapter on Hegel in Wilhelm Halbfa?'s "Indien und Europa". Here are a few quotes from the English translation (1988): p. 86: [Hegel] sought advice and information from his colleague at the University of Berlin, the pioneer Sanskritist and linguist F. Bopp [and read H. T. Colebrooke's first essay "On the Philosophy of the Hindus"], .... [...but, it bears reminding:] p. 85: (...) Hegel was not an indologist. [Paolo Magnone correctly addresses Hegel as a philospher.] p. 95: Hegel's interest in India is inseparable from his anti-Romantic attitude and his criticism of the Romantic glorification of India. However, F. Schlegel himself subsequently revised and modified his evaluation of the Indian tradition, and he distanced himself from the unqualified enthusiasm of his earlier statements. p. 85: Hegel's interest in India is inseparable from that of the Romantics: He was one of the heirs, but also the most rigorous critic of the Romantic conception of India. What distinguishes his approach above all from that of the Romantics is his commitment to the present, and his sense of an irreversible direction of history. He does not glorify origins and early stages. The spirit of world history progresses to greater richness and complexity. What has been in the beginning cannot be richer and more perfect. It may be true that India, as part of the Orient, is a land of "sunrise," of early origins and "childhood." But this does not justify nostalgia and contempt of the European present. We cannot and need not return to the Orient: It is a matter of the past. ______ I may add that, so far, I have not come across a "German indologist" of any description who had a "typically German longing for the ineffable transfactual", or who wanted to reverse the course of history according to a presumed "Oriental" model. This is but a small illustration of the fundamental flaw of Raymond Schwab "Oriental Renaissance". As I have pointed out elsewhere: When Edward Said stumbled across Schwab's book, roughly two decades after its publication (1950), he decided that it had been "unreasonably ignored". This is one point on which I take the liberty to disagree with Said. Reinhold Gr?nendahl Connect with friends all over the world. Get Yahoo! India Messenger at http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/?wm=n/ From mkmfolk at GMAIL.COM Mon Mar 23 16:14:40 2009 From: mkmfolk at GMAIL.COM (Mahendra Kumar Mishra) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 09 09:14:40 -0700 Subject: Gaja Sastra In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085577.23782.17690470819277915731.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1169 Lines: 39 Gajasashtra and Aswa( horser ) sastra are two important palmleaf manuscripts in Indian which is ingored by the forest and Environment department . whata fun. if some westernscholar will recognise and recommend Indian academics and administration , then they will certainly work on it. It is nice that Indology is discussed by some scholars of India and abroad. I have collected a hatidhara geet ( howto capture the elephant ) froma folk singer whichis inOriya language. Itis all about the capturingof elehant . regards, Mahendra Mishra On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 7:30 AM, Patrick Olivelle wrote: > A colleague in Anthropology asked me about new studies or translations of > Gaja Sastras -- on elephants in Sanskrit. I wonder whether any of you, more > up to date on elephants than I am, can provide some guidance. Thanks. > > Patrick Olivelle > -- Dr Mahendra Kumar Mishra State Tribal Education Coordinator, Orissa Primary Education Programme Authority, Unit- V Bhubaneswar 751001,India Residential Address: D-9 Flat Kalpana Area Bhubaneswar 751014,India phone 91+674-2310167(r) 094376-36436(m) From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Mar 23 14:28:11 2009 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 09 09:28:11 -0500 Subject: Translations into Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227085567.23782.5418121336404729096.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 417 Lines: 17 If I am not mistaken, Ballantyne also produced some textbooks of Western logic and other subjects in Sanskrit, though these may not be precisely translations. I am sorry that I do not have the full references at my disposal as I write just now. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Mon Mar 23 14:30:31 2009 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 09 09:30:31 -0500 Subject: Gaja Sastra In-Reply-To: <20080122104709.22A77404@bonito.ulb.ac.be> Message-ID: <161227085574.23782.18074388010305083398.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 244 Lines: 9 A colleague in Anthropology asked me about new studies or translations of Gaja Sastras -- on elephants in Sanskrit. I wonder whether any of you, more up to date on elephants than I am, can provide some guidance. Thanks. Patrick Olivelle From paolo.magnone at UNICATT.IT Mon Mar 23 09:22:04 2009 From: paolo.magnone at UNICATT.IT (Paolo Magnone) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 09 10:22:04 +0100 Subject: Help preserve cultural diversity (Was: Language barriers --- financial barriers) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085560.23782.16086535571818243207.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4816 Lines: 87 Dear Friends, I bitterly repent having ever quoted Hegel, and especially Macaulay, as it seems to have done nothing but distract from the main argument. Of course, it *is* > reductionist and essentializing to present Macaulay as the > representative voice of Anglophone attitudes to India [:] when you make an example, you might as well pick an extreme one to make your point stand out the better. In other words, Macauley was certainly not meant to represent the average anglophone attitude to India, but only to typify that attitude *at its worse*: I thought I had added enough cautionary words to make that clear. (I take Dominic Goodall?s subtle point on the suitability or otherwise of Macaulay to demonstrate matter-of-factness; I still think his parliamentary bombast must be some sort of matter-of-factness raised to visionary heights :-). As for Hegel, thanks to Reinhold Gr?nendahl for his clarification; however, here again, I was aware of Halbfa??s assessment of Hegel?s many-faceted relationship to India, but the interest of choosing Hegel for me lies exactly in that, although in many ways he was, as Glasenapp (quoted by Halbfa?) styled him, ?the prototype of the Westerner, who saw Western thought as the measure of all things? (but on the other hand, in the frame of his system of the progressive unfolding of the Spirit, his appreciation of what he regarded as a civilization of the past could not have been unreserved: as Greece itself, India must have been /aufgehoben/); still, in his ?Vorlesungen ?ber die Philosophie der Weltgeschichte? he could pronounce those words, displaying a cultural sensitivity which is far removed from Macaulay?s. As for there not (any longer) being German indologists with a longing for the ineffable, I suppose I shall have to take Gr?nendahl?s word, albeit not without regret :-) For in my opinion this is one of the worst blights upon much of present-day indology: while, for instance, the overwhelming majority of biblists are motivated by the thought that they are dealing with something extremely precious, it seems more and more (Western) indologists could not care less about the actual content of the Indian scriptures they are studying, but just treat them as a playground to display their methodological acumen. On the other hand, the deep sympathy towards the Orient that was once characteristic of German Romanticism need not necessarily have something to do with > [wanting] to reverse the course of history according to a > presumed "Oriental" model and I am at a loss to see that there should be an intrinsic connection between the two. To finally come to what interests me more, when Luis Gonzalez-Reimann reminds me that > [r]egardless of Macaulay fanciful opinion about the 'pre-eminence' of > English, the fact is that, today, English is the most practical > language for international communication, scholarly or otherwise. This > is not an ideological, political or imperial matter, but simply a > pragmatic one. excuse me, Luis, but this is a truism. How should I ignore this simple, ?pragmatic? fact? (although it is ironical that I should be brought back to pragmatism, which is a close kin to ?matter-of-factness?, exactly while I am denouncing its one-sidedness). Of course, we all write and publish and internationally communicate in English, and this same forum bears testimony to it. This is a very welcome *choice* we all have. But some would have us cease altogether from writing in anything but English for scholarly purposes, which ? to add one more consideration, apart from the perspective of cultural diversity ? would amount to effectively demoting our mother tongues to the level of vernaculars unfit for scientific discourse. And some are even going to the length of advocating the adoption of English for dissertations in all countries. Now, speaking of pragmatism, let us be pragmatic: how should a young student, who (with the levels of student literacy falling everywhere) is hardly at ease with his own mother tongue, be expected to handle a foreign language with all the subtlety and stylistic accomplishment that I (at least) insist on requiring? All we shall get is haphazard jobs, and we shall have rendered a poor service to indology and to the students themselves, who will have missed an unrepeatable opportunity to learn to wield their language beyond the elementary requirements of everyday life. (On the priceless pedagogical value of writing a dissertation, here in Italy we have an all-time classic, much popular with generations of students: Umberto Eco?s /Come si fa una tesi di laurea/). -- Paolo Magnone Lingua e letteratura sanscrita Universit? Cattolica di Milano Jambudvipa - Indology and Sanskrit Studies (www.jambudvipa.net) From rrocher at SAS.UPENN.EDU Mon Mar 23 14:40:18 2009 From: rrocher at SAS.UPENN.EDU (Rosane Rocher) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 09 10:40:18 -0400 Subject: Translations into Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <20090323092811.BUK53108@m4500-02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227085572.23782.7455291852147577981.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 771 Lines: 27 For the translation program conducted at Banaras Sanskrit College under Ballantyne, see Michael S. Dodson's 2007 book (originally Cambridge dissertation), the contents of which may be obscured by its title /Orientalism, Empire, and National Culture: India, 1770-1880. / Rosane Rocher mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU wrote: > If I am not mistaken, Ballantyne also > produced some textbooks of Western logic > and other subjects in Sanskrit, though > these may not be precisely translations. > I am sorry that I do not have the full > references at my disposal as I write > just now. > > Matthew T. Kapstein > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies > The University of Chicago Divinity School > > Directeur d'?tudes > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > > From reimann at BERKELEY.EDU Mon Mar 23 17:45:28 2009 From: reimann at BERKELEY.EDU (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 09 10:45:28 -0700 Subject: Help preserve cultural diversity (Was: Language barriers --- financial barriers) In-Reply-To: <49C754BC.2000904@unicatt.it> Message-ID: <161227085585.23782.3856650127951864805.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2580 Lines: 53 Thanks, Paolo, > excuse me, Luis, but this is a truism. How should I ignore this > simple, ?pragmatic? fact? (although it is ironical that I should be > brought back to pragmatism, which is a close kin to > ?matter-of-factness?, exactly while I am denouncing its > one-sidedness). Of course, we all write and publish and > internationally communicate in English, and this same forum bears > testimony to it. This is a very welcome *choice* we all have. Alright. > But some would have us cease altogether from writing in anything but > English for scholarly purposes, Then maybe I misunderstood you, I didn't see this as the main point you were making. And this is a very specific point. This is not what I was addressing. As I said, I see no conflict with using both English and another language. English for international communication, and the mother tongue for "national" communication. > which ? to add one more consideration, apart from the perspective of > cultural diversity ? would amount to effectively demoting our mother > tongues to the level of vernaculars unfit for scientific discourse. > And some are even going to the length of advocating the adoption of > English for dissertations in all countries. Not in Latin America, I can assure you. Maybe in some European countries. Europe is very multilingual in a way that other areas of the world are not. This is (or at least was) especially true of countries such as Holland, Denmark and others, where students learn other European languages from an early age. Decisions about the language dissertations are written in is a very specific topic. We have already heard that in Germany different universities have different rules regarding this. I can tell you that here, at the University of California, Berkeley, dissertations in the Department of Spanish, for example, can be written in Spanish. > Now, speaking of pragmatism, let us be pragmatic: how should a young > student, who (with the levels of student literacy falling everywhere) > is hardly at ease with his own mother tongue, be expected to handle a > foreign language A student at the graduate level, I think, must be able to read (not to master subtle and stylistic points for writing) a couple of languages that are important in the field. In the US, they are usually French and German, with Japanese coming more and more into the picture, especially for Buddhist studies. Russian and Italian may be acceptable in some departments depending on the specific topic of the research. Regards, Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann From reimann at BERKELEY.EDU Mon Mar 23 18:05:27 2009 From: reimann at BERKELEY.EDU (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 09 11:05:27 -0700 Subject: Translations into Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <49C79F52.1010405@sas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <161227085588.23782.8988282930650537957.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 676 Lines: 17 A text that should probably be included as the earliest extant translation into Sanskrit (as far as I am aware). is the /YavanajAtaka/ of Sphujidhvaja. It was written in the third century CE. It is purportedly a versified version of a prose translation of a Greek text on astrology composed in Hellenistic Egypt. According to David Pingree, the prose translation was carried out by Yavanezvara in the second century CE during the reign of the Saka ruler Rudradaman I of Ujjain. See vol 1:3 of: Pingree, David, ed. and trans. 1978. /The YavanajAtaka of Sphujidhvaja/. 2 vols. Harvard Oriental Series, 48. Cambridge: Harvard University Press. Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann From sellmers at GMX.DE Mon Mar 23 11:09:39 2009 From: sellmers at GMX.DE (Sven Sellmer) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 09 12:09:39 +0100 Subject: Help preserve cultural diversity (Was: Language barriers --- financial barriers) In-Reply-To: <49C754BC.2000904@unicatt.it> Message-ID: <161227085562.23782.16432992171942698418.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2398 Lines: 55 Looking back at the discussion so far, which has taken very interesting turns, it seems to me that there are two basic problems: P1: The problem, especially (but not only, it seems) for Indian colleagues, of reading indological works written in languages other than English. P2: The problem of cultural diversity that is endangered by a pervasive use of English in scholarly discourse. I take both problems to be genuine and serious ones. Unfortunately, the easiest way to solve P1, namely to switch to English altogether, would only worsen P2, so we seem to face a classical dilemma. But if we have a closer look at the situation, perhaps the dilemma is not so huge as it appears at first sight, and that is the point I would like to make: "Indology" is not a monolithic science, there are many different fields belonging to it. Now, in some of them, I would contend, switching to English would indeed greatly enhance scholarly exchange without doing much harm to cultural diversity. I have in mind topics like logic, grammar, textual history etc. But concerning other fields Paolo's remarks are highly valid. When one is dealing with poetry, certain philosophical or religious points and many other comparable, less "matter of fact" topics there can be hardly any doubt that the usage of just one language (be it English or any other) cannot but grossly reduce the quality of the discussion. Both reasons for that have already be mentioned: (1) the less-than-perfect command of English on part of the non-native speakers; (2) the loss of the specific hermeneutical perspectives that each language offers. The upshot is, in my mind, that someone planning to engage in international discussions of the second type should have at least a good passive command of a couple of modern and ancient Western and Indian languages. If a student does not want to spend that much time on learning non-Indian languages, he or she can still do a lot of important work in fields of the first type. (No degradation implied here, of course.) To be sure, in that way the dilemma is not solved, but at least somewhat mitigated. Best wishes, Sven Sellmer ************************************ Dr. Sven Sellmer Adam Mickiewicz University Institute of Oriental Studies South Asia Unit ul. 28 czerwca 1956 r. nr 198 61-485 Pozna? POLAND sven at amu.edu.pl From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Mon Mar 23 07:49:56 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 09 13:19:56 +0530 Subject: Translations into Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227085547.23782.14103497763428179930.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2455 Lines: 55 Quite a few translations into Sanskrit??have been mentioned by members. The following may be added to the list if they have not already been mentioned by someone ? 1.Hayata: Sub.Arabic astronomy and geography; original version: Persian?Sanskrit translator: unknown; time: late medieval? ed.Vibhuutibhuu.sa.na Bhattacharya,?Sarasvati Bhavana Granthamala vol.96, Sampurnaanand Sanskrit Vishvavidyalaya, Varanasi, 1967 ? 2.Ukra Sub:mensuration,geometry; original: Greek? author: Saawajuusayuusa; translated by Nayanasukhopadhyaaya Jaipur, 1693 CE; ed.Vibhuutibhuu.sa.na Bhattacharya,?Sarasvati Bhavana Granthamala vol.104, Sampurnaanand Sanskrit Vishvavidyalaya, Varanasi, 1978 ? 3.Yantraraajavicaaravi.m;saadhyaayii Sub:construction of instruments for astronomy; original: Arabic; author: ?; translated by Nayanasukhopadhyaaya mentioned above; ed.Vibhuutibhuu.sa.na Bhattacharya,?Sarasvati Bhavana Granthamala vol.108, Sampurnaanand Sanskrit Vishvavidyalaya, Varanasi, 1979 ? The following Sanskrit work is not a translation but it was meant to help translators 4.Paarasiikaprakaa;sa Sub: bilingual grammar of Persian;author:Bihaari .K.r.s.nadaasa Mi;sra under Akbar's(1555-1604) patronage; ed.Vibhuutibhuu.sa.na Bhattacharya,?Sarasvati Bhavana Granthamala vol.95, Sampurnaanand Sanskrit Vishvavidyalaya, Varanasi, 1965 First puiblished from Varanasi in 1865; then ed.Weber,Berlin,1985; If these have already been brought to notice in these columns I express regret. DB ? ? ? ? --- On Thu, 19/3/09, Sven Sellmer wrote: From: Sven Sellmer Subject: Translations into Sanskrit To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Thursday, 19 March, 2009, 5:53 PM Dear Colleagues, lately I was asked about early translations into Sanskrit and noticed that this is quite an interesting question I know little about. Is anybody aware of articles or books on this topic? In particular, I would be curious to learn about the earliest translations into Sanskrit of texts originally composed in languages others than Middle Indo-Aryan ones (as only these I would consider translations in the full sense). Best wishes, Sven Sellmer ************************************ Dr. Sven Sellmer Adam Mickiewicz University Institute of Oriental Studies South Asia Unit ul. 28 czerwca 1956 r. nr 198 61-485 Pozna? POLAND sven at amu.edu.pl Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Mon Mar 23 07:53:34 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 09 13:23:34 +0530 Subject: Translations into Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227085550.23782.5726394296799423234.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2843 Lines: 70 Please read 'Weber,Berlin,1885'. --- On Mon, 23/3/09, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: Translations into Sanskrit To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 23 March, 2009, 1:19 PM Quite a few translations into Sanskrit??have been mentioned by members. The following may be added to the list if they have not already been mentioned by someone ? 1.Hayata: Sub.Arabic astronomy and geography; original version: Persian?Sanskrit translator: unknown; time: late medieval? ed.Vibhuutibhuu.sa.na Bhattacharya,?Sarasvati Bhavana Granthamala vol.96, Sampurnaanand Sanskrit Vishvavidyalaya, Varanasi, 1967 ? 2.Ukra Sub:mensuration,geometry; original: Greek? author: Saawajuusayuusa; translated by Nayanasukhopadhyaaya Jaipur, 1693 CE; ed.Vibhuutibhuu.sa.na Bhattacharya,?Sarasvati Bhavana Granthamala vol.104, Sampurnaanand Sanskrit Vishvavidyalaya, Varanasi, 1978 ? 3.Yantraraajavicaaravi.m;saadhyaayii Sub:construction of instruments for astronomy; original: Arabic; author: ?; translated by Nayanasukhopadhyaaya mentioned above; ed.Vibhuutibhuu.sa.na Bhattacharya,?Sarasvati Bhavana Granthamala vol.108, Sampurnaanand Sanskrit Vishvavidyalaya, Varanasi, 1979 ? The following Sanskrit work is not a translation but it was meant to help translators 4.Paarasiikaprakaa;sa Sub: bilingual grammar of Persian;author:Bihaari .K.r.s.nadaasa Mi;sra under Akbar's(1555-1604) patronage; ed.Vibhuutibhuu.sa.na Bhattacharya,?Sarasvati Bhavana Granthamala vol.95, Sampurnaanand Sanskrit Vishvavidyalaya, Varanasi, 1965 First puiblished from Varanasi in 1865; then ed.Weber,Berlin,1985; If these have already been brought to notice in these columns I express regret. DB ? ? ? ? --- On Thu, 19/3/09, Sven Sellmer wrote: From: Sven Sellmer Subject: Translations into Sanskrit To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Thursday, 19 March, 2009, 5:53 PM Dear Colleagues, lately I was asked about early translations into Sanskrit and noticed that this is quite an interesting question I know little about. Is anybody aware of articles or books on this topic? In particular, I would be curious to learn about the earliest translations into Sanskrit of texts originally composed in languages others than Middle Indo-Aryan ones (as only these I would consider translations in the full sense). Best wishes, Sven Sellmer ************************************ Dr. Sven Sellmer Adam Mickiewicz University Institute of Oriental Studies South Asia Unit ul. 28 czerwca 1956 r. nr 198 61-485 Pozna? POLAND sven at amu.edu.pl ? ? ? Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ Bollywood news, movie reviews, film trailers and more! Go to http://in.movies.yahoo.com/ From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Mon Mar 23 09:04:25 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 09 14:34:25 +0530 Subject: Help preserve cultural diversity (Was: Language barriers --- financial barriers) Message-ID: <161227085557.23782.11396857591946492351.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 8617 Lines: 192 Of course you are true Professor Bijlert. I had taken Sanskrit for granted forgetting that it is not.To tell the truth?in present Bengal language training itself is regarded as a?drudgery and unnecessary wastage of time and energy best avoided or bypassed or stuffed into a shortcut. As for?Sanskrit, many suffer from illusory visions of Sanskrit as an artificial language. Bleak times indeed DB --- On Mon, 23/3/09, victor van Bijlert wrote: From: victor van Bijlert Subject: Re: Help preserve cultural diversity (Was: Language barriers --- financial barriers) To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 23 March, 2009, 1:28 PM Not only the gradual loss of English is to be deplored. Also Sanskrit had been thrown out of the educational system in some Indian states, with the result that the knowledge of the vernacular State language also suffers. Many words in e.g. Hindi or Bengali are tatsama's. Spelling-errors also increasingly occur as a result of lack of knowledge about the word-formation of tatsama's. Many users of Indian languages are probably not even aware anymore of the parent language from which many of their loanwords have issued. Of course the Bengali reformers like Rammohun and Vidyasagar pleaded for English education (in English) but still knew their Sanskrit. -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens Dipak Bhattacharya Verzonden: zondag 22 maart 2009 19:54 Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Onderwerp: Re: Help preserve cultural diversity (Was: Language barriers --- financial barriers) The thread may have been lost but perhaps the?question that brought in the topic of culture preservation was the inability of a large number of Indian Sanskritists to understand English. In fact this state of affairs is a creation of current politics. A language of international standing apart from one's mother tongue, must be a part of the curriculum in the University stage. This principle is followed in every civilized society where modern education has made a place for itself.[[Perhaps many in India might experience that?this is not true of Americans ie U.S. citizens. But perhaps, it is really not so. It seems untrue of Americans perhaps because poorly educated Americans too can afford to tour India. They too enter into Institutes of higher study. It is they who leave the poor impression. But the above principle seems to have been followed when one talks with a highly educated American.]] In India misplaced patriotism has been the reason for?banishing English as a compulsory subject?from the University curricula in some states.?Such steps might not greatly harm education?in countries where elaborate arrangement for translation and of quickly getting informed of the latest developments in research exists. This is not possible in India for many reasons -- copyright, prohibitive cost of getting permission, unwillingness of publishers to explore such possibilities. For example, R.H.Robins' General Linguistics has been translated into French. No Indian publisher ever thought of that.? As a result the abolition of English has increased the number of graduates but has?also?caused a severe lowering of the standard of education. Even most of the PhD theses produced in these states cannot be sent to states where a different language is spoken. It is forgotten that?one need not lose one's culture by preparing oneself to get acquainted with researches?being carried?on in the world outside India. On the contrary one enriches oneself and one's culture thereby.That was the reason, explicitly stated by the?reformers of Bengal?in the nineteenth century, for the then?emphasis on English education. Unfortunately,?the?condition is still valid and will remain so till India is industrially an advanced country.? DB ? --- On Sun, 22/3/09, victor van Bijlert wrote: From: victor van Bijlert Subject: Re: Help preserve cultural diversity (Was: Language barriers --- financial barriers) To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Sunday, 22 March, 2009, 11:05 PM I do not wish to defend British policies from the days of the Company Raj, but I am only pointing to the fact that Macaulay edited the Indian Penal Code which is still in use in South Asia (with the necessary amendments). Moreover, Bengali Renaissance reformers like Raja Rammohun Roy, prince Dwarkanath Tagore and Vidyasagar were far more incisevely critical of the Brahmanical culture of their day than Macaulay ever could be. The fiercest critics of Indian culture were not the British but the Indian reformers themselves. Macaulay's Minute on education was fully endorsed by the then Hindu reformers. The Indian reformers themselves were clamoring for English education. I think we should not forget this fact. Presentday criticism of Macaulay may ultimately be used to tacitly endorse upper-caste Hindu reactionary world-views. Victor van Bijlert -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens Gruenendahl, Reinhold Verzonden: zondag 22 maart 2009 18:16 Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Onderwerp: AW: Help preserve cultural diversity (Was: Language barriers --- financial barriers) I have great sympathy for Paolo Magnone's point. However, there is one aspect that I see differently. Paolo Magnone wrote: ... I suspect there is as much typically Anglosaxon matter-of-factness speaking in Macaulay's infamous "Minute on Indian Education" as there is? typically German longing for the ineffable transfactual in Hegel's winged eulogy of India. ... To leave that heroic age of the beginnings (the age of the "Renaissance orientale", contributed to by many but eminently embodied by German Romanticism ... _______________________ With regard to Hegel, "German longing", Romanticism etc. it may be helpful to take a look at the chapter on Hegel in Wilhelm Halbfa?'s "Indien und Europa". Here are a few quotes from the English translation (1988): p. 86: [Hegel] sought advice and information from his colleague at the University of Berlin, the pioneer Sanskritist and linguist F. Bopp [and read H. T. Colebrooke's first essay "On the Philosophy of the Hindus"], .... [...but, it bears reminding:] p. 85: (...) Hegel was not an indologist. [Paolo Magnone correctly addresses Hegel as a philospher.] p. 95: Hegel's interest in India is inseparable from his anti-Romantic attitude and his criticism of the Romantic glorification of India. However, F. Schlegel himself subsequently revised and modified his evaluation of the Indian tradition, and he distanced himself from the unqualified enthusiasm of his earlier statements. p. 85: Hegel's interest in India is inseparable from that of the Romantics: He was one of the heirs, but also the most rigorous critic of the Romantic conception of India. What distinguishes his approach above all from that of the Romantics is his commitment to the present, and his sense of an irreversible direction of history. He does not glorify origins and early stages. The spirit of world history progresses to greater richness and complexity. What has been in the beginning cannot be richer and more perfect. It may be true that India, as part of the Orient, is a land of "sunrise," of early origins and "childhood." But this does not justify nostalgia and contempt of the European present. We cannot and need not return to the Orient: It is a matter of the past. ______ I may add that, so far, I have not come across a "German indologist" of any description who had a "typically German longing for the ineffable transfactual", or who wanted to reverse the course of history according to a presumed "Oriental" model. This is but a small illustration of the fundamental flaw of Raymond Schwab "Oriental Renaissance". As I have pointed out elsewhere: When Edward Said stumbled across Schwab's book, roughly two decades after its publication (1950), he decided that it had been "unreasonably ignored". This is one point on which I take the liberty to disagree with Said. Reinhold Gr?nendahl ? ? ? Connect with friends all over the world. Get Yahoo! India Messenger at http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/?wm=n/ Connect with friends all over the world. Get Yahoo! India Messenger at http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/?wm=n/ From klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI Mon Mar 23 13:15:47 2009 From: klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI (Klaus Karttunen) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 09 15:15:47 +0200 Subject: Translations into Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227085565.23782.7231055626603365363.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 8754 Lines: 182 Dear colleagues, I have noted down following references. They hail from various sources and I have not seen all of the books myself. Translations from Indian Languages: CAKRAVARTI, R?jagop?la: Translated from Bengal? Bankim Candra Ca??op?dhy?y?s Candra?ekhar with new title as ?aivalin?. Mysore 1917. DESIKAN, S. N. Srirama: Sanskrit translations of Tamil and Telugu classics, e.g. Tirukkural Porutpal, Auvaiy?r, Tirupp?vai, Vemana, Padyamulu, Kamba R?m?ya?am B?lak?ndam, Pattuppattu, Ettuttokai. PARAM?NANDA Pa??it: A Sanskrit metrical version and Sanskrit commentary of Bih?r? L?l's Satsa?, published together with the original Braj text under the name ???g?rasapta?at?. Benares 1873. ?IROMA?I, S?t?r?ma Nay?c?rya: Tagore: G?t??jali. Translated from Bengal? into Sanskrit. 1917. VARADACHARYA (or -chari), S. T. G.: wrote books in Telugu, translated Telugu classics into Sanskrit. VARMA, Vikramadeva: R?macaritam?nasa. Translated from Tulas?d?sa?s Hind?. 1918. Translations from non-Indian Languages: AYYANGAR, M. R. Rajagopala: Sanskrit translation of the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam. 1940. BROCKHAUS, Hermann: "?ber Homer's Ilias in Sanskrit", ZDMG 6, 1852, 108f. (cf. Brown, The prosody of the Telugu and Sancrit Languages. Madras 1827, 4). FLECHIA, Giovanni: "Versione sanscrita dell' episodio dantesco Francesca da Rimini", Ricordo ai colleghi indologi del Congresso orientalistico di Berlino. 1881. GODBOLE, Narayan Bal Krishna: ?sop's Fables translated into Sanskrit from the Mar?thi. Bombay 1877. MISRA, Sadal: compiled the Sanskrit Section in J. B. GILCHRIST: The Oriental Fabulist or polyglott Translations of Esop's and other ancient Fables from the English language into Hindoostanee, Persian, Brij B,hak,ha, Bangla, and Sunkrit in the Roman Character by various Hands, under the direction and superintendence of J.G., for the Use of the College of Fort William. Calcutta 1803. PAVOLINI, Paolo Emilio: translated into Sanskrit: "?vetadv?pag?th?m?lik?", GSAI 28, 1916-17, 167-177 (20 English poems). RO?R, Eduard, tr.: Mah?kavi Sek?p?r pra??ta n??aker marm?nur?pa Lembs?eler katipaya ?khy?yika anuv?dita ha?a. 2+ 212 p. Calcutta 1853 (Ch. Lamb's tales from Shakespeare). VARMA, R?jar?ja (1863?1918): prose translation of the Othello publ. as Udd?lakacarita. 1???. And does nobody remember Cappeller?: CAPPELLER, Carl: "Subh??itam?lik?. Eine Auswahl von Spr?chen deutscher Dichter in Sanskrit nachgebildet", Jahresbericht der Pfeiffer'schen Lehr- und erziehungsanstalt. Jena 1902, also in IA 1903 and as a separate publication. Yavana?atakam. (Hundert Sanskrit-Strophen nach griechischen Dichter). Jena 1903, also in IA 1905. Parsi Sanskrit (at least following translated from Avesta or Pahlavi): GEIGER, Wilhelm: habil.diss. Aogemada?c?, ein Parsentraktat in P?zend, Altbaktrisch und Sanskrit. 160 p. Erlangen 1878. JAMASP ASA, Kaikhusroo Dastur Minocher: diss. The Pahlavi-Pazend Text of the Aogemada?ca. MS. 1966, publ. as Aogemada?c?. A Zoroastrian Liturgy. 119 p. 54 pl. SWA 397. Vienna 1982 (with facs. of Pazand, Sanskrit and Gujarati versions). BHARUCHA, Ervad Sheriarji Dadabhai & M. P. KHAREGHAT, ed.: Arda- Gv?r?. Ed. by E.Sh.D.Bh. with Old Gujarati version by M.P.Kh. 100 p. Collected Sanskrit Writings of the Parsis 5. Bombay 1920. DHALLA, Maneckji Nusserwanji: ed. & tr. Khordah Avesta. 1. The Nyaishes of Zoroastrian Litanies. Avestan Text with the Pahlavi, Sanskrit, Persian and Gujarati versions. 12+235 p. Indo-Ir. Ser. 6. N.Y. 1908. F?HRER, A.: On Khordah-Avesta Of Nery?sangh, JBRAS 16:42, 1883, ??-??. SPIEGEL, Friedrich von: Grammatik der P?rsi-Sprache nebst Sprachproben. Lp. 1851 (P?zend, with several extracts from the P?zend M?n?g-? Xrad with Sanskrit and German translations). SACHAU, Eduard, ed.: ?Contributions to the knowledge of Parsee Literature?, JRAS 4, 1870, 229-283 (specimens of M?n?k-i ?rat in Pehlevi and Sanskrit). WEST, Edward William, ed.: Book of the Mainy?-i Khard. P?zand, Sanskrit, and English, with a Glossary. 1871. BHARUCHA, Ervad Sheriarji Dadabhai, ed.: Mainy?i Khard. Collected Sanskrit Writings of the Parsis 3. Bombay 1912. ANKLESARIA, Ervad Tehmuras Dinshaw: D?n?k-u mainy?-i Khard. Pahlavi, Pazand and Sanskrit Texts. Bombay 1913. BHARUCHA, Ervad Sheriarji Dadabhai, ed.: Skanda Gumani Gujara. 101 p. Collected Sanskrit Writings of the Parsis 4. Bombay 1913. SPIEGEL, Ludwig Friedrich Ernst von: ed. Neriosengh's Sanskrit- Uebersetzung des Ya?na. Herausgegeben und erl?utert. 249 p. Lp. 1861. BURNOUF, Eug?ne: Commentaire sur le Ya?na, l'un des livres religieux des Parses. 1-2. 153+592+196 & ??? p. P. 1833-35 (Yasna 1 in Avesta and Sanskrit with commentary). DEGHAN, K.: Der Awesta-Text Sr?? Ya?t (Yasna 57) mit Pahlavi und Sanskrit?bersetzung. 19??. KOSSOVI?, Kaetan Andreevi? (Cajetan Kossovich): ??etyre stat?i iz Zendavesty, s prisovokupleniem transkripcii, russkago i latinskago perevod, ob?jasnenij, kriti?eskih prime?anij, sanskritskago perevoda i sravnitel?nago glossarija?, Trudy vost. otd. arh. ob??. 8, 1861 (Yasna?). MILLS, Lawrence Heyworth: A Study of the Five Zoroastrian G?th?s, with the Zend, Pahlavi, Sanskrit, and Persian translations. 1-2. 1892-94. ------ Letter on an Avesta-Sanskrit Manuscript of Yasna in Oxford, AJPh 15, 1894, 120f. ------ ?Yasna XXVIII?, Festgruss Roth 1893, ??-??. ------ ?The Sanskrit Equivalent of Yasna XLIV?, Actes di XIe Congr?s intern. des Orientalistes, Paris 1997, 1 section 1899, 317-326. ------ ?The Ahuna Vairya from Yasna XXVII, 13, with its Pahlavi and Sanskrit translations?, JRAS 1910, 57-68, 641-657 (ed. and transl.). ------ ?Yasna XLIV, 1-10, a study prospective a new ed. of S.B.E. XXXI?, ZDMG 65, 1911, 325-335. ------ ?Yasna XLIV, 11-20, a study re a new ed.?, ZDMG 66, 1912, 461-468. ------ ?Yasna XXIX in its Sanskrit Equivalent?, Le Mus?on 13, 1912, 1-26. ------ The Yasna 29 and 31 in its Sanskrit Equivalents. Oxford 1914. ------ ?Yasna XXX?, ZDMG 68, 1914, 149-156 (in Sanskrit). ------ ?The Yasna 31?, Le Mus?on 15, 1914?, ??-??. ------ ?The Yasna 32, 1-8, in its Indian Equivalent?, JRAS 1915, 205-211 (ed. and transl. with notes). ------ ?The Yasna 32, 9-15, in its Indian Equivalent?, JRAS 1916, 103-112 (ed. and tr. with notes) . ------ ?The Yasna XLVIII, in its Indian Equivalent ?, JBRAS 24:3 (70), 1914-16, 596-603. ------ ?The Yasna 43, 1-6, in its Sanskrit forms?, JRAS 1917, 541-5??. ------ ?The Yasna 43, 7-16, in its Sanskrit forms?, JRAS 1917, 753-771. ------ ?Yasna XLVII of the G?th? Spe?t?mainyu rendered in its Sanskrit equivalents?, JRAS 1919, 15-23. TARAPOREWALA, Irach J. S.: "A Sanskrit version of Yasna IX", Sir Asutosh Mookerjee Silver Jubilee Volumes 3:2, Calcutta 1925. UNVALA, Jamshedji Maneckji: ed. with Pehlevi and Sanskrit translations: Neryosangh?s Sanskrit version of the H?m Ya?t (Yasna IX-XI), with the original Avesta and its pahlavi version. Ed. & transl. with notes and glossarial index. 15+199 p. Wien 1924. Bible and Christian literature, see YOUNG, Robert Fox: "Church Sanskrit: an approach of Christian scholars to Hinduism in the 19th century," WZKS 23, 1979, 205-231. The New Testament of Our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ: ??varasya sarvav?ky?ni. Tr. by Serampore Missionaries. 1-3. Serampore 1808-11. BALLANTYNE, James Robert: In Sanskrit: Genesis, chapters 1?3: The Bible for Pandits. fasc. 1. London & Benares 1860 (all published). YATES, William: Bible translations: Psalms in Sanskrit. 184? (in ?loka metre), some other parts in Sanskrit. WENGER, John: translated parts of the Bible (both OT & NT) into Sanskrit, some (e.g. Job) directly from Hebrew into Sanskrit metre. CAREY, William: Matthew 1-3 in his A Grammar of the Sungskrit Language. Serampore 1806, 895-901. BURRITT, Elihu: A Sanskrit Handbook for the fireside. L. 1876 (with the Sanskrit transl. of the Gospel acc. to John as exercise). MILL, William Hodge: translated into Sanskrit: Christa-sa?g?ta or History of Christ. Calcutta 1831, 2nd ed. 1837. ------ The Sermon on the Mount. 183?. WENGER, John: translated many hymns and tracts into Sanskrit and Bengali. John Muir wrote Christian and text books in Sanskrit, i.al. Indian history and English geography. Klaus Karttunen, Ph.D. Professor of South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies Institute for Asian and African Studies PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674 Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094 Email Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi From cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET Mon Mar 23 20:16:06 2009 From: cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET (George Cardona) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 09 16:16:06 -0400 Subject: Gaja Sastra Message-ID: <161227085591.23782.900962428417954183.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 755 Lines: 17 A recent useful work: Mahar.si Paalakaapya's Gaja'saastram with the Sanskrit commentary Bhaavasandar'sinii of Anantak.r.s.nbha.t.taaraka with an English translation and 136 illustrations of various elephants, edited by Dr. Siddharth Yeshwant Wakankar and Vaidya Prof. V. B. Mhaiskar; Delhi: Bharatiya Kala Prakashan, 2006. Regards, George -----Original Message----- >From: Patrick Olivelle >Sent: Mar 23, 2009 10:30 AM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: Gaja Sastra > >A colleague in Anthropology asked me about new studies or >translations of Gaja Sastras -- on elephants in Sanskrit. I wonder >whether any of you, more up to date on elephants than I am, can >provide some guidance. Thanks. > >Patrick Olivelle From pankajaindia at GMAIL.COM Mon Mar 23 16:24:16 2009 From: pankajaindia at GMAIL.COM (Pankaj Jain) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 09 16:24:16 +0000 Subject: My fall 2009 online courses on Sanskrit and on Jainism Message-ID: <161227085579.23782.5150307417407422495.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1298 Lines: 34 With immense gratitude to my supervisors and colleagues at NC State, I am excited to share that my two courses here will also have an online section. Thus, students from anywhere in the world can log into the class and can take these classes. I will greatly appreciate your help in letting any interested students know about these courses. _________________________________________________________________________ FOR THE FIRST TIME, An online UNIVERSITY COURSE ON JAINISM, an ancient Indian religion: >From Mahavira to Mahatma Gandhi: The Nonviolent Jain Traditions of India Rel 298-004 105 Withers Hall Wednesdays 6 ? 8.50pm _________________________________________________________________________ FOR THE FIRST TIME, An online UNIVERSITY COURSE ON SANSKRIT, an ancient classical Indian language: Sanskrit Course for 3 credits FL 295 ? 005 Tuesdays, Thursdays 1.30 to 2:45 pm 202, Poe Hall _________________________________________________________________________ For more info: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dr. Pankaj Jain पंकज ज&#2374;न, Departments of Religion and Foreign Languages and Literatures, North Carolina State University. http://www.indicuniversity.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Mon Mar 23 16:19:14 2009 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 09 17:19:14 +0100 Subject: SARIT project support letters Message-ID: <161227085582.23782.3016333466678077785.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 428 Lines: 17 Dear Colleagues, Richard Mahoney and I would like to thank all those of you who very kindly penned letters of support for the SARIT application that we are making to the British Association for South Asian Studies. They have all gone off to the committee now, and we await the decision with bated breath. Best wishes, and thanks again, Dominik Wujastyk and pp Richard Mahoney INDOLOGY website -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk From reimann at BERKELEY.EDU Tue Mar 24 01:31:41 2009 From: reimann at BERKELEY.EDU (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 09 18:31:41 -0700 Subject: Translations into Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <49C7CF67.5060408@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227085594.23782.12901170584402952892.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 175 Lines: 9 Here is another reference: /Arabic Astronomy in Sanskrit: Al-Birjandion Tadhkira II, Chaper 11 and its Sanskrit Translation/. Brill, Leiden, 2002. Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann From meulnbld at XS4ALL.NL Tue Mar 24 08:03:10 2009 From: meulnbld at XS4ALL.NL (G.J. Meulenbeld) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 09 09:03:10 +0100 Subject: Gaja Sastra Message-ID: <161227085597.23782.1305835495503640554.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 721 Lines: 26 Dear Colleague, A survey of he literature on gaja'saastra up to about CE 2000 can be found in my 'A history of Indian medical literature', vol. IIA, chapter 6: Authors and works on veterinary medicine, p.557--579. I hope this may be useful to your anthropology colleague. Jan Meulenbeld ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Olivelle" To: Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 3:30 PM Subject: Gaja Sastra >A colleague in Anthropology asked me about new studies or translations of >Gaja Sastras -- on elephants in Sanskrit. I wonder whether any of you, more >up to date on elephants than I am, can provide some guidance. Thanks. > > Patrick Olivelle > From jmdelire at ULB.AC.BE Tue Mar 24 09:42:42 2009 From: jmdelire at ULB.AC.BE (Jean-Michel Delire) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 09 10:42:42 +0100 Subject: Translations into Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227085600.23782.15285261910018278835.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 430 Lines: 8 Concerning the translation of Arabic texts, especially in astronomy, there is also the following article : S.M.Razaullah Ansari, "Islamic Astronomy in India during 16th-18th Centuries and its Interaction with Traditional Indian Astronomy", pp.145-156, 500 Years of Tantrasangraha (ed.M.S.Sriram, K.Ramasubramanian, M.D.Srinivas), IIAS, Shimla, 2002 J.M.Delire, Alta?r Centre for the History of Science, University of Brussels From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Mar 24 17:09:14 2009 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 09 13:09:14 -0400 Subject: Gaja Sastra Message-ID: <161227085606.23782.536121765913106215.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 733 Lines: 16 I own a ms book on the diseases of elephants in some form of 'Hindi' or 'Rajasthani' in which the diseases are illustrated in the form of demons attacking the elephants. I think I have a complete set of rough and ready digitized images around somewhere. I saw a sheet or two of what appeared to be the same book on display in the Sanjay Sharma Museum and Research Institute, Jaipur. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Tue Mar 24 13:56:49 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 09 19:26:49 +0530 Subject: Gaja Sastra Message-ID: <161227085602.23782.1718174488671527366.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1113 Lines: 37 Could you kindly give?the publication details to make the information more useful? DB --- On Tue, 24/3/09, G.J. Meulenbeld wrote: From: G.J. Meulenbeld Subject: Re: Gaja Sastra To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 24 March, 2009, 1:33 PM Dear Colleague, A survey of he literature on gaja'saastra up to about CE 2000 can be found in my 'A history of Indian medical literature', vol. IIA, chapter 6: Authors and works on veterinary medicine, p.557--579. I hope this may be useful to your anthropology colleague. Jan Meulenbeld ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Olivelle" To: Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 3:30 PM Subject: Gaja Sastra > A colleague in Anthropology asked me about new studies or translations of Gaja Sastras -- on elephants in Sanskrit. I wonder whether any of you, more up to date on elephants than I am, can provide some guidance. Thanks. > > Patrick Olivelle > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Tue Mar 24 19:24:58 2009 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 09 20:24:58 +0100 Subject: Gaja Sastra In-Reply-To: <31827.36397.qm@web8602.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227085609.23782.1555329005975346039.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1570 Lines: 56 author = {Gerrit Jan Meulenbeld}, title = {A History of Indian Medical Literature}, publisher = {Egbert Forsten}, year = {1999--2002}, address = {Groningen}, note = {Volumes IA, IB, IIA, IIB, III}, isbn = {9069801248}, Link to publisher: http://tinyurl.com/c8uunf -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk On Tue, 24 Mar 2009, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > Could you kindly give?the publication details to make the information more useful? > DB > > --- On Tue, 24/3/09, G.J. Meulenbeld wrote: > > > From: G.J. Meulenbeld > Subject: Re: Gaja Sastra > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Tuesday, 24 March, 2009, 1:33 PM > > > Dear Colleague, > > A survey of he literature on gaja'saastra up to about CE 2000 can be found in my 'A history of Indian medical literature', vol. IIA, chapter 6: Authors and works on veterinary medicine, p.557--579. > I hope this may be useful to your anthropology colleague. > > Jan Meulenbeld > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Olivelle" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 3:30 PM > Subject: Gaja Sastra > > >> A colleague in Anthropology asked me about new studies or translations of Gaja Sastras -- on elephants in Sanskrit. I wonder whether any of you, more up to date on elephants than I am, can provide some guidance. Thanks. >> >> Patrick Olivelle >> > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ > From rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU Wed Mar 25 01:15:56 2009 From: rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU (Alexander von Rospatt) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 09 07:00:56 +0545 Subject: performing life-cycle rites for deities Message-ID: <161227085612.23782.13435569770609354703.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1165 Lines: 32 As I am studying Newar Buddhist consecration rituals for images, caityas and so on, I am wondering how much of a tradition of performing the sa?sk?ra life-cycle rites as part of such consecration rites there is outside (Newar) Buddhism. I am aware that such rites are indeed performed for the generation of Agni when installing the fire, but it is not clear to me to which extent the sa?sk?ras (not just conception and birth, but also further rites up to the wedding) are also performed for the consecration of images. The sa?sk?ras do form an integral part of the consecration ceremony performed in the ?aiva tradition preserved among the Newars. Hence, I suppose that such practice exists (or existed) also in other Hindu traditions, but I have no hard evidence in support. Any help to identify such evidence would be much appreciated. Alexander Rospatt ---------------- Alexander von Rospatt, Professor Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies Group in Buddhist Studies University of California 7233 Dwinelle Hall # 2540 Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 USA Phone: +1-510-6421610 Fax: +1-510-6432959 Email: rospatt at berkeley.edu From jean.fezas at WANADOO.FR Wed Mar 25 10:49:08 2009 From: jean.fezas at WANADOO.FR (Jean Fezas) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 09 11:49:08 +0100 Subject: TR: Poste de Prof. Paris III Message-ID: <161227085617.23782.15106282274455383618.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1505 Lines: 47 -----Message d'origine----- De : Mondes Iranien et Indien [mailto:iran-inde at ivry.cnrs.fr] Envoy? : mercredi 25 mars 2009 11:04 ? : destinataires inconnus: Objet : Poste de Prof. Paris III http://www.univ-paris3.fr/1236271745172/0/fiche___actualite/&RH=ACCUEIL I - Liste des emplois publi?s pour l'Universit? PARIS 3 dont 15? PR Histoire et traditions textuelles de l?Inde et de l?Asie du Sud-Est 0856 Orient et Monde arabe II - Les candidatures s'effectuent par voie t?l?matique sur le site Internet du minist?re de l'enseignement sup?rieur et de la recherche : http://www.enseignementsup-recherche.gouv.fr, rubrique ?concours, emploi et carri?res? puis ?galaxie? du 03 mars 2009 ? 10h00, heure de Paris, jusqu'au 02 avril 2009 16h00, heure de Paris. III -La composition du dossier, est ? consulter sur l'arr?t? du 15 septembre 2008 - Journal Officiel du 23 septembre 2008, pour les MCF. et pour les PR : Les dossiers complets doivent ?tre adress?s par courrier postal avant le 02 avril 2009 avant minuit le cachet de la poste faisant foi, ? l'adresse suivante : Universit? Sorbonne Nouvelle - PARIS 3 Bureau du personnel enseignant - PR/MCF / Section/n? 17, rue de la Sorbonne - 75005 PARIS Aucun dossier ni document compl?mentaire ne sera pris en compte apr?s cette date. NB : La publication des emplois d'enseignants -chercheurs ne se fait plus au Journal Officiel, les candidats doivent se connecter sur le site du Minist?re de l'enseignement sup?rieur et de la recherche. From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Wed Mar 25 07:21:20 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 09 12:51:20 +0530 Subject: performing life-cycle rites for deities Message-ID: <161227085614.23782.11492612669261736375.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3524 Lines: 44 250309 Dear Professor Rospatt, The available descriptions do not confirm that the ritual representation of the samsk?ras is a general feature of Hindu initiation/initial rites. They are not enacted in the Vedic Agny?dheya. As far as I could study a meticulous representation will be missed also in the smaarta samskaaras. It is the professedly tantric fire generation, also called homa, in its pa?cop?san? variety that enacts with every detail. Perhaps it will be difficult to establish that they formed part of the initial ritual of? Buddhsit tantra from the beginning. Homa is Vedic after all. In the Buddhist tantric texts we do find reference to homa. It was also carried abroad with Buddhism. But this should reflect a late situation. I cannot help a bit of involuntary self propaganda in stating that matter in both the varieties came for discussion by me in the seventies. The pa?cop?san? variety was dealt with in some detail? in a chapter on the ??kta and Vaishnava tantric initiations in 'Mythological and ritual symbolism' (Calcutta 1984,chapters 4 and 5, pp.194-208; published ten years after writing). [I caution you that you will find the entire fourth chapter plagiarized in a multi-volume publication by Cosmo Publications that appeared in 1999. I got compliments from a well-wisher who judged that the plagiarism meant that my study had some worth. But you will miss a lot by consulting the material from the Cosmo publication. Its dropping of the fifth chapter means that the copyist had not understood the matter which would be incomplete and not fully intelligible from the fourth chapter alone.] The available K?lacakray?na material for the parallel seka was dealt with by me in 'The Catu.sk?ya doctrine in the mantranaya'(Journal of research, Visva Bharati, 1977-78). This is ascribed to N?rop?. That means even as late as the tenth century the sm?rta samk?ras, reported by you were missing in Buddhist mantranaya though one finds the word homa there. Perhaps this is enough Best for all Dipak Bhattacharya --- On Wed, 25/3/09, Alexander von Rospatt wrote: From: Alexander von Rospatt Subject: performing life-cycle rites for deities To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 25 March, 2009, 6:45 AM As I am studying Newar Buddhist consecration rituals for images, caityas and so on, I am wondering how much of a tradition of performing the sa?sk?ra life-cycle rites? as part of such consecration rites there is outside (Newar) Buddhism. I am aware that such rites are indeed performed for the generation of Agni when installing the fire, but it is not clear to me to which extent the sa?sk?ras (not just conception and birth, but also further rites up to the wedding) are also performed for the consecration of images. The sa?sk?ras do form an integral part of the consecration ceremony performed in the ?aiva tradition preserved among the Newars. Hence, I suppose that such practice exists (or existed) also in other Hindu traditions, but I have no hard evidence in support. Any help to identify such evidence would be much appreciated. Alexander Rospatt ---------------- Alexander von Rospatt, Professor Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies Group in Buddhist Studies University of California 7233 Dwinelle Hall # 2540 Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 USA Phone: +1-510-6421610 Fax: +1-510-6432959 Email:? rospatt at berkeley.edu Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Mar 26 07:42:31 2009 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 09 07:42:31 +0000 Subject: Leiden Indological Summer School 2009 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227085620.23782.6647524174309930651.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1339 Lines: 35 [forwarded upon request, but without the flyer] Apologies for cross-postings! Dear Sir / Madam, We are happy to announce the fourth edition of the Leiden Summer School in Languages and Linguistics which will be held from 27 July - 7 August 2009 at the Faculty of Humanities of Leiden University. The Summer School offers a number of courses on a wide range of subjects in the field of languages and linguistics. This year, the Summer School will consist of seven programmes, including courses for beginners as well as for advanced students, taught by internationally renowned specialists: Indo-European Programme Germanic Programme Iranian Programme Indological Programme Semitic Programme Russian Programme Demotic Papyrology For more information and registration, visit: http://www.hum.leiden.edu/summerschool/ . Please do pass this message on to anyone possibly interested. We attach a flyer which can be put on a notice board. Yours sincerely, Alexander Lubotsky (director) Tina Janssen (organizer) Comparative Indo-European Linguistics Leiden University PO Box 9515 NL-2300 RA Leiden The Netherlands _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From athr at LOC.GOV Thu Mar 26 19:52:32 2009 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 09 15:52:32 -0400 Subject: Gaja Sastra Message-ID: <161227085623.23782.6327689851155785081.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1262 Lines: 33 This was published in 2006: LC Control No.: 2005322092 Personal Name: Pa?laka?pya. Uniform Title: Gajas?a?stra. English & Sanskrit Main Title: Mahars?i Pa?laka?pya's Gajas?a?stram : with the Sanskrit commentary, Bha?vasandars?ini? of Anantakr?s?n?abhat?t?a?raka : with an English translation and 136 illustrations of various elephants / edited by Siddharth Yeshwant Wakankar & V.B. Mhaiskar. Published/Created: Delhi : Bharatiya Kala Prakashan, 2006. Description: xxii, 462 p. : ill. ; 23 cm. ISBN: 8180900169 CALL NUMBER: QL737.P98 P3613 2006 This is based on a ms prepared for the Rajas of Aundh in 1926 by Pdt. V. Vijayaraghavacharya, the English presumably done by the Pandit, and the black and white ills. being in the ms. It is not known what ms or mss it was based on. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From athr at LOC.GOV Thu Mar 26 22:53:35 2009 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 09 18:53:35 -0400 Subject: Translations into Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227085626.23782.10748186689529583600.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1186 Lines: 23 According to A. L. Mudaliyar, Bibliography of the books, papers & other contributions of Dr. V. Raghavan (Ahmedabad: New Order Book Co., 1968), p. 21-22, a work by V. Raghavan discusses some of these: V. Raghavan, Modern Sanskrit Writings, Adyar Library Series, No. P. 31 [sic]. Adyar, Madras: The Adyar Library Book and Research Centre, 1956. Also in Adyar Library Bulletin, 20 (1956), pp. 20-56. Amongst other modern writings in Sanskrit discussed by Raghavan, according to Mudaliyar, are "Sanskrit versions of the Bible, translations of of English works of Western authors and Indian authors...." I have a distinct but quite possibly false recollection that Raghavan wrote an article or pamphlet entitled "The Bible in Sanskrit," but I can't locate a copy anywhere online. Maybe a section from the above was published separately. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From jemhouben at GMAIL.COM Fri Mar 27 06:08:09 2009 From: jemhouben at GMAIL.COM (Jan Houben) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 09 07:08:09 +0100 Subject: position in tibetan history and philology Message-ID: <161227085628.23782.3815397472256657234.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 989 Lines: 25 Dear Members of the List, Applications are invited for a research professorate ("direction d'?tudes") in tibetan history and philology at the prestigious "Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes," IVe Section, Sciences historiques et philologiques, founded in 1868 and where among others Ferdinand de Saussure, Louis Renou and Jean and Pierre-Sylvain Filliozat have been teaching. A CV and publication list showing a very thorough background in tibetan history and philology are required; a solid knowledge of French is a prerequisite. For more information see the Bulletin officiel of the ministry of higher education of 9 March: http://www.enseignementsup-recherche.gouv.fr/pid20536/rubrique-bo.html?cid_bo=24193 -- Prof. Dr. Jan E.M. Houben, Directeur d Etudes ? Sources et Histoire de la Tradition Sanskrite ? Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Sciences historiques et philologiques, A la Sorbonne,45-47, rue des Ecoles, 75005 Paris -- France. JEMHouben at gmail.com www.jyotistoma.nl From athr at LOC.GOV Fri Mar 27 21:09:50 2009 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 09 17:09:50 -0400 Subject: Translations into Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227085630.23782.5540258869654992707.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1370 Lines: 28 There is an anthology of Christian works in Sanskrit by Jean Calmette, S.J. (1692-1740), William Hodge Mill (1792-1853), John Muir (1810-1852), and Brahmabandhava Upadhyaya (1861-1907): LC Control No.: 96902803 Personal Name: Amaladass, Anand, 1943- Main Title: The Indian Christiad : a concise anthology of didactic and devotional literature in early Church Sanskrit / Anand Amaladass and Richard Fox Young. Published/Created: Anand, Gujarat, India : Gujarat Sahitya Prakash, 1995. Description: xviii, 378 p. ; 22 cm. It includes a section of "Common Prayers" attributed by the editors to Calmette, many of them standard Catholic prayers translated into Sanskrit, others original compositions. The editors believe these were at one time in actual use by South Indian Catholics, but that the memory of their use had been forgotten. The bibiography at the end contains a section Church Sanskrit, of published and ms works of the genre, and another Secondary Sources, including some other discussions of the subject. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET Sat Mar 28 07:43:19 2009 From: vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 09 02:43:19 -0500 Subject: Translations into Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227085632.23782.11517656489882820840.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 782 Lines: 17 I remember being told many years ago that Freud had been translated into Sanskrit, but have never seen such works, nor have any bibliographical information on them. Is anyone familiar with this? Also, there were obviously different motives for producing Sanskrit translations -- e.g., Christian missionaries trying to get out the "good word," or "back-translating" Chinese or Tibetan works whose Skt originals are no longer extant -- but some must have been done due to an interest and curiosity on the part of Sanskrit pandits themselves for accessible versions of stimulating works (such as, I would imagine, would be the case with works of de Saussure or Freud). Has anyone attempted an anthropology of Sanskrit translations, sorting out the different motives? Dan Lusthaus From garzilli at ASIATICA.ORG Sat Mar 28 18:19:31 2009 From: garzilli at ASIATICA.ORG (Enrica Garzilli) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 09 19:19:31 +0100 Subject: JSAWS 11/1 Message-ID: <161227085634.23782.13269325080345766694.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 930 Lines: 31 Dear Friends and Colleagues, I am happy to announce Vol. 11/1 of the new *Journal of South Asia Women Studies* (established in 1995) http://asiatica.org/ In this issue: Note from the Editor: The New Political Scenario in Nepal and in Afghanistan and The Fairy Tale of the ?Good Taliban? Paper: "Female Rishis and Philosophers in the Veda?", by Michael Witzel Book Reviews Summary of "Female Rishis and Philosophers in the Veda?" It is a traditional but common misconception that a considerable number of ?gvedic hymns were composed by women. Though female authors and interlocutors are not entirely absent from the Vedas, the role of 'literate' women in the ?gveda will have to be re-evaluated. The traditional names given for female ?gvedic authors include those derived from the wordings of the hymns but also personified Belief, Speech and a bitch. Enjoy it! Dr Enrica Garzilli Editor-in-Chief From pathompongb at YAHOO.COM Sun Mar 29 06:47:36 2009 From: pathompongb at YAHOO.COM (Pathompong Bodhiprasiddhinand) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 09 23:47:36 -0700 Subject: Job at Mahidol University Message-ID: <161227085637.23782.15624666770500512183.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 461 Lines: 22 Dear all, The Department of Humanities, Faculty of Social Sciences and Humanities, Mahidol University, Bangkok, is seeking a lecturer in (Indian/Tibetan) Mahayana Buddhism for an international PhD programme in Buddhist Studies. Applicants must be ready to teach several Sanskrit sutras, belonging to both Mahayana and Vajrayana traditions. For further details, please contact me off the list. Best wishes, Pathompong Bodhiprasiddhinand From eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM Mon Mar 30 11:06:28 2009 From: eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM (Dean Michael Anderson) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 09 04:06:28 -0700 Subject: Devavanipravesika Sanskrit text is now available Message-ID: <161227085642.23782.543433345211696547.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 108 Lines: 7 Devavanipravesika is now available from Motilal Banarsidass. Paperback price is Rs 395 ? Dean Anderson ? From r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG Sun Mar 29 20:56:43 2009 From: r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 09 09:56:43 +1300 Subject: Fwd: [ACAT] OCLC Review Board Survey on Shared Data Creation and Stewardship Message-ID: <161227085639.23782.6227324989900162313.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4374 Lines: 124 Dear Colleagues, Almost all of us are completely dependent on OCLC derived bibliographic records so this current review should be of some interest. Best regards, Richard MAHONEY -----Forwarded Message----- From: "Schwitzner, Ted" To: AUTOCAT at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU Subject: [ACAT] OCLC Review Board Survey on Shared Data Creation and Stewardship Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:50:35 -0500 Greetings colleagues, The OCLC Review Board on Shared Data Creation and Stewardship seeks the feedback of the library community on the existing guidelines for record use, the policy that was proposed in November 2008, and on uses of records. Please see the message below from the Review Board Chair, Jennifer Younger, that will provide more information about the survey. Please pardon the duplication of this message, as the Review Board hopes to reach all those interested in this issue. Please feel free to redistribute. Thank you for your time and input, Ted Schwitzner OCLC Members Council Delegate (ILLINET) and Review Board Member Dear Colleague: As chair of the OCLC Review Board of Shared Data Creation and Stewardship, I invite you to participate in a Web-based survey among librarians and other interested constituents. The primary goal of this survey is to gather input from both OCLC members and non-members about a proposed OCLC policy, Policy for Use and Transfer of WorldCat(r) Records. The Review Board will consider the results of this survey in its recommendations to OCLC. Please review the existing guidelines and proposed policy if you have not already done so: * Guidelines: http://www.oclc.org/support/documentation/worldcat/records/guidelines/default.htm * Proposed Policy: http://www.oclc.org/worldcat/catalog/policy/recordusepolicy.pdf The OCLC Review Board is an independent committee convened by the OCLC Board of Trustees and the OCLC Members Council. If you wish to find out more about the Review Board, please visit these links: * OCLC Review Board: http://www.oclc.org/worldcat/catalog/policy/board/default.htm * Press release - formation of Review Board: http://www.oclc.org/us/en/news/releases/20092.htm * Press release - Review Board members: http://www.oclc.org/us/en/news/releases/200910.htm The survey is available online at the following site, where you will find specific instructions on completing the survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=c0hILWPafv97EDbNiRXXjg_3d_3d I invite you to complete this survey yourself or forward it to a colleague with an interest in this issue. Your opinions and comments are vital to our evaluation, regardless of your current level of usage of OCLC services or your relationship to OCLC. Please complete the questionnaire online by April 8, 2009. To protect the confidentiality of your responses, all data will be collected, tabulated, and analyzed by Linray, an independent market research consultant. We will receive data in aggregate form only; your answers will not be associated in any way with you or your organization. If you have questions about the content of the survey, please send an e-mail to reviewboard at oclc.org. As an alternative to the survey, we welcome your feedback by sending an e-mail to reviewboard at oclc.org or posting comments at http://community.oclc.org/reviewboard/. Please feel free to provide input in the language of your choice. Thank you for your participation in this survey. Sincerely, Jennifer A. Younger Chair, OCLC Review Board of Shared Data Creation and Stewardship Director, Hesburgh Libraries University of Notre Dame *********************************************************************** AUTOCAT quoting guide: http://www.cwu.edu/~dcc/Autocat/copyright.html E-mail AUTOCAT listowners: autocat-request at listserv.syr.edu Search AUTOCAT archives: http://listserv.syr.edu/archives/autocat.html By posting messages to AUTOCAT, the author does not cede copyright *********************************************************************** -- Richard MAHONEY | internet: http://indica-et-buddhica.org/ Littledene | telephone/telefax (man.): +64 3 312 1699 Bay Road | cellular: +64 275 829 986 OXFORD, NZ | email: r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Indica et Buddhica: Materials for Indology and Buddhology From harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM Fri May 1 10:36:06 2009 From: harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM (Harsha Dehejia) Date: Fri, 01 May 09 10:36:06 +0000 Subject: Ethical Dilemmas of Krishna Message-ID: <161227086091.23782.174748915406706053.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 417 Lines: 28 Friends: Both the Mahabharata and the Shrimad Bhagvata Purana present situations in which Krishna is seen transgressing ethical norms. In the Bhagavata this is resolved through the concept of Yogamaya. What is the resolution of these problems in the Mahabharata? Is the Karma Yoga of the Gita a possible resolution? Thanks. Harsha Harsha V. Dehejia Carleton University, Ottawa, ON., Canada. From reimann at BERKELEY.EDU Fri May 1 20:19:06 2009 From: reimann at BERKELEY.EDU (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Fri, 01 May 09 13:19:06 -0700 Subject: Ethical Dilemmas of Krishna In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086100.23782.6601623772592837502.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 912 Lines: 48 Harsha, There is this article: Matilal, Bimal Krishna. 1991. Krsna: In Defence of a Devious Divinity. In Essays on the Mahabharata, ed. Arvind Sharma, 401-18. Leiden: E. J. Brill. And this this collection of articles: Matilal, Bimal Krishna, ed. 1989. Moral Dilemmas in the Mahabharata. Shimla and Delhi: Indian Institute of Advanced Study, in association with Motilal Banarsidass. Regards, Luis _____ on 5/1/2009 3:36 AM Harsha Dehejia wrote: > Friends: > > > > Both the Mahabharata and the Shrimad Bhagvata Purana present situations in which Krishna is seen transgressing ethical norms. > > > In the Bhagavata this is resolved through the concept of Yogamaya. > > > What is the resolution of these problems in the Mahabharata? Is the Karma Yoga of the Gita a possible resolution? > > > Thanks. > > > > Harsha > > Harsha V. Dehejia > > Carleton University, Ottawa, ON., Canada. > > From d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK Fri May 1 13:33:00 2009 From: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 01 May 09 15:33:00 +0200 Subject: sarve bhavantu sukhina=?UTF-8?Q?=E1=B8=A5?= Message-ID: <161227086094.23782.7734127936201652391.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 508 Lines: 20 ... sarve santu nir?maya? I've been asked where this famous sentence comes from, historically, and I don't know. The Mah?mantr?nus?ri?? (thanks to Peter Skilling and GRETIL) has it: C.3.16. sarve satv?? sarve pr???? sarve bh?t?? ca keval?? / sarve vai sukhina? santu sarve santu nir?may?? / sarve bhadr??i pa?yantu m? ka?cit p?pam ?gamat // But people usually ascribe it to one of the upani?ads, where as far as I can see it doesn't appear. Is it known from other, older sources? Thanks, Dominik From d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK Fri May 1 13:35:47 2009 From: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 01 May 09 15:35:47 +0200 Subject: Carbon dating of palm-leaf MSS? In-Reply-To: <4896FEF35D359441AB2A680756941DDD07B60B23@MAIL2.mcs.usyd.edu.au> Message-ID: <161227086096.23782.3219100220768836953.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2410 Lines: 83 Many thanks! I've now forgotten who originated the query, but I'll search and forward your email. Best, -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk International Institute of Asian Studies http://iias.nl long term email address: wujastyk at gmail.com On Fri, 1 May 2009, Mark Allon wrote: > Dominik, > > Sorry for the delay, but mail takes a long time to get to Australia! > > Your friend may be interested in the following article by myself, Richard Salomon, and two scientists: > > Allon, Mark, R. Salomon, G. Jacobsen, and U. Zoppi. 2006. ?Radiocarbon Dating of Kharo??h? Fragments from the Sch?yen and Senior Manuscript Collections.? In Jens Braarvig, ed., Buddhist Manuscripts III. Manuscripts in the Sch?yen Collection 4, pp. 279?91. Oslo: Hermes Publishing. > > If he wants a pdf, I'll send it to you. > > Regards > Mark Allon > University of Sydney > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk > Sent: Tuesday, 7 April 2009 7:38 PM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Carbon dating of palm-leaf MSS? > > This message is forwarded on behalf of R. Ganapathy, who is not a member > of this forum. Please be sure to CC any replies to him, at > > > Dominik Wujastyk > INDOLOGY committee > > ------------ Forwarded Message ----------- > On Fri, 3 Apr 2009, RG wrote: > >> Dear Dr Wujastyk: >> >> I got your address through a friend of mine in London. >> >> I was a Senior Res Associate at the Enrico Fermi Inst of the Univ of Chicago >> many years ago. >> >> I have a palm leaf manuscript, 868 pages, with grantha script describing >> Valmiki's Ramayan. I got this from an antique shop in Cochin five years ago. >> >> Because grantha was used in South India to transmit Sanskrit language, I >> decided to date this using carbon-14 method using accelerator mass >> spectrometry. I just got the preliminary age few days ago, about 350 years >> old from today. >> >> I searched the google to find other carbon 14 dates on the use of grantha >> script. I did not get any useful information. Since I am new to this field, >> I am looking for help in locating journals which publish C-14 dates on >> Indian palm leaf manuscripts. What kind of range do we have on these >> dates?I would deeply appreciate if you can help me on this. >> >> Thank you. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> R.Ganapathy >> >> Bethlehem, PA, USA >> >> > From d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK Fri May 1 14:33:33 2009 From: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 01 May 09 16:33:33 +0200 Subject: SARIT News Message-ID: <161227086098.23782.18422200490430582251.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1388 Lines: 43 Dear colleagues, Richard Mahoney and I have been pushing the SARIT project http://sarit.indology.info forward with energy. 1. The British Association of South Asian Studies has awarded a grant to promote the SARIT project. The amount we were awarded is lower than we requested, but is still enough to enable progress. I would like to thank all those who provided letters of support for our application. I am certain that these votes of confidence made a major difference. 2. We have recently been in active discussions about possible collaboration with institutions in India. We have also been talking with members of the TEI consortium about setting up training courses in India for inputters. If this initiative succeeds, and there are still many hurdles, it might be possible for SARIT to grow rapidly. Of course, the bigger the database of searchable Indic texts, the more useful it will be to all of us. 3. Richard has now developed a software pipeline so that all texts added to the SARIT library will not only be searchable, indexable, etc., but will also be downloadable in toto, as HTML (as with GRETIL) or as PDF. See the new "Downloads" menu entry in the Navigation menu on the right side of the main screen. Best, Dominik -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk International Institute of Asian Studies http://iias.nl long term email address: wujastyk at gmail.com From mark.allon at USYD.EDU.AU Fri May 1 08:50:43 2009 From: mark.allon at USYD.EDU.AU (Mark Allon) Date: Fri, 01 May 09 18:50:43 +1000 Subject: Carbon dating of palm-leaf MSS? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086089.23782.17859590535393889660.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2049 Lines: 64 Dominik, Sorry for the delay, but mail takes a long time to get to Australia! Your friend may be interested in the following article by myself, Richard Salomon, and two scientists: Allon, Mark, R. Salomon, G. Jacobsen, and U. Zoppi. 2006. ?Radiocarbon Dating of Kharo??h? Fragments from the Sch?yen and Senior Manuscript Collections.? In Jens Braarvig, ed., Buddhist Manuscripts III. Manuscripts in the Sch?yen Collection 4, pp. 279?91. Oslo: Hermes Publishing. If he wants a pdf, I'll send it to you. Regards Mark Allon University of Sydney -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk Sent: Tuesday, 7 April 2009 7:38 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Carbon dating of palm-leaf MSS? This message is forwarded on behalf of R. Ganapathy, who is not a member of this forum. Please be sure to CC any replies to him, at Dominik Wujastyk INDOLOGY committee ------------ Forwarded Message ----------- On Fri, 3 Apr 2009, RG wrote: > Dear Dr Wujastyk: > > I got your address through a friend of mine in London. > > I was a Senior Res Associate at the Enrico Fermi Inst of the Univ of Chicago > many years ago. > > I have a palm leaf manuscript, 868 pages, with grantha script describing > Valmiki's Ramayan. I got this from an antique shop in Cochin five years ago. > > Because grantha was used in South India to transmit Sanskrit language, I > decided to date this using carbon-14 method using accelerator mass > spectrometry. I just got the preliminary age few days ago, about 350 years > old from today. > > I searched the google to find other carbon 14 dates on the use of grantha > script. I did not get any useful information. Since I am new to this field, > I am looking for help in locating journals which publish C-14 dates on > Indian palm leaf manuscripts. What kind of range do we have on these > dates?I would deeply appreciate if you can help me on this. > > Thank you. > > Sincerely, > > R.Ganapathy > > Bethlehem, PA, USA > > From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Sat May 2 09:58:48 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sat, 02 May 09 15:28:48 +0530 Subject: SARIT News Message-ID: <161227086102.23782.5116744689981290951.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1895 Lines: 50 Fine! Could?the Shriimuulaa commentary, T.G.Shastri, K.A. be uploaded? It is for sometime out of print with not much assurance from MLBD of a quick reprint. DB --- On Fri, 1/5/09, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: From: Dominik Wujastyk Subject: SARIT News To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Friday, 1 May, 2009, 8:03 PM Dear colleagues, Richard Mahoney and I have been pushing the SARIT project ??? http://sarit.indology.info forward with energy. 1. The British Association of South Asian Studies has awarded a grant to promote the SARIT project.? The amount we were awarded is lower than we requested, but is still enough to enable progress. I would like to thank all those who provided letters of support for our application.? I am certain that these votes of confidence made a major difference. 2. We have recently been in active discussions about possible collaboration with institutions in India.? We have also been talking with members of the TEI consortium about setting up training courses in India for inputters. If this initiative succeeds, and there are still many hurdles, it might be possible for SARIT to grow rapidly.? Of course, the bigger the database of searchable Indic texts, the more useful it will be to all of us. 3. Richard has now developed a software pipeline so that all texts added to the SARIT library will not only be searchable, indexable, etc., but will also be downloadable in toto, as HTML (as with GRETIL) or as PDF.? See the new "Downloads" menu entry in the Navigation menu on the right side of the main screen. Best, Dominik -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk International Institute of Asian Studies http://iias.nl long term email address: wujastyk at gmail.com Now surf faster and smarter ! Check out the new Firefox 3 - Yahoo! Edition http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/firefox/?fr=om_email_firefox From saf at SAFARMER.COM Mon May 4 00:05:03 2009 From: saf at SAFARMER.COM (Steve Farmer) Date: Sun, 03 May 09 17:05:03 -0700 Subject: The Indus "script"? Message-ID: <161227086105.23782.3507596400780327532.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 11008 Lines: 204 Simon Brodbeck writes, on the "Indus script" question: > I hope it will not be out of place here to say how little I am > looking forward to the apparently forthcoming treatment of this > issue in this forum. > > I have no doubt that if any present parties have anything > substantial to add to the debate, we shall see it in print before > long. In the meantime, I wonder how much is to be gained by > repeating, in more or less rhetorical variants, contributions that > have already been made in print. > Sorry for the delayed response, and just hit "delete", Simon. :^) I'll try to make this my only post, unless someone responds to the specific evidence I discuss below. I agree that this isn't the ideal forum for this discussion. That would require the contributions of archaeologists, comparative historians, and computational linguists, few of whom are on the List. There is nothing rhetorical in what I say below, nor am I simply repeating points already made in print. Two major points: 1. My last post on this List was actually nine years ago, and the only reason I posted last week was to respond to a pop news story sent to the List by an Indologist on the paper by Rao et al. -- actually the worst of the stories published so far, entitled "Artificial Intelligence Cracks 4000-Year-Old Mystery." When something like that is posted without comment on a research List, supposedly overturning the work of you and your colleagues, most people would feel constrained to respond. :^) Now that the statistical flaws in Rao et al. have been thoroughly discussed by well-known computational linguists including Mark Liberman and Fernando Pereira (neither of whom I know), there isn't much to add beyond what they say here: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1374 (updated since it first appeared) http://earningmyturns.blogspot.com/2009/04/falling-for-magic- formula.html The bottom line is a critical point that is rarely mentioned anywhere, let alone on the Indology List: no single statistical measure can distinguish speech-encoding systems (writing) from symbol systems that encode semantic data of other types. (See here especially Pereira's comments in the second link above.) The only reason that the data of Rao et al. look superficially convincing to non-specialists is because of the huge gap they show in their data (see their chart in the first link above) between clustered groups of Indus signs and a carefully selected group of natural languages and two wholly *invented* data sets of supposedly "representative examples" of nonlinguistic symbols -- neither of which are anything like anything found in the ancient world. Rao et al. calculated *no* values at all for ancient nonlinguistic symbol systems beyond those from the Indus -- despite what they suggest in the main body of their paper. In other words, they slipped one by the Science reviewers. If you don't think this paper will affect future work in Indus studies by people, including researchers, many of whom get their views of research outside their specialized fields from outside reports and newspapers, think again. The question of whether Indus symbols did or not encode writing may seem a trivial Glasperlenspiel to those whose work doesn't involve studies of the impact of literacy on premodern civilizations. It is anything but an empty scholastic game: writing is an enabling technology that when it existed fundamentally transformed ancient civilizations. And surrounding the Indus -- among the BMAC, in the cities of the Gulf, and in the urban centers of the SE Iranian plateau (e.g., at Jiroft, whose supposed "writing" has been shown in the past year to consist of modern forgeries) -- we find no writing either. The significance of this for Indus studies and ancient studies in general will be discussed at length in Kyoto at the end of this month, by me and Michael Witzel, by perhaps the leading specialist on Iranian and Gulf archaeology, Dan Potts, and others. Nothing old or rhetorical about that discussion either. 2. I also feel constrained to point out that the summaries Parpola gave on this List in the wake of the discussion of Rao et al. -- which didn't directly pertain to our views of Parpola's work -- have little to do with our real views. E.g., he summarizes and disposes of what he claims as one of the arguments of Farmer, Sproat, and Witzel this way: > All literary civilizations produced longer texts but there are none > from the Indus Valley ? hence the Indus script is no writing > system: Farmer and his colleagues reject the much repeated early > assumption that longer texts may have been written on birch bark, > palm leaves, parchment, wood, or cotton cloth, any of which would > have perished in the course of ages as suggested by Sir John > Marshall in 1931 (I, 39). Farmer and his colleagues are ready to > believe the Indus script thesis only if an Indus text at least 50 > signs long is found. > > *But* even though Farmer and his colleagues speak as if our present > corpus of texts was everything there ever existed, this is not the > case. More than 2100 Indus texts come from Mohenjo-daro alone, and > yet less than one tenth of that single city has been excavated. > Farmer and his colleagues do not know what has existed and what may > be found in the remaining parts of the city, even if it is likely > that only imperishable material of the kinds already available > continue to be found. The Rongo-Rongo tablets of Easter Island are > much longer than 50 signs. But does this make it certain that they > represent writing in the strict sense? > Nothing here represents any of our nuanced views. We certainly never speak "as if our present corpus of texts was everything there ever existed." Nor would we claim that every symbol string in the world over 50 signs long is "writing." Richard Sproat is in fact an expert on Rongo-Rongo, and we could point of course to manuscript length mnemonic or "prompt" texts among the Mixtecs, Aztecs, or (in Asia) the Naxi, of which I have indeed talked about at length in lectures attended by Parpola in 2005 (Kyoto) and 2007 (at Stanford). But Indus symbols don't belong to this subtype of nonlinguistic symbols, as we argue -- nonlinguistic like linguistic signs come in a surprisingly wide variety of 'flavors'. We in fact say something like that on the first page of our 2004 paper. In any event, our arguments about "text" length are considerably more sophisticated than the way they are summarized above. The "lost manuscript" thesis, which was accepted with little discussion from Hunter 1929 to Marshall 1931 to Parpola 1994, was introduced to explain away the obvious lack of anything remotely looking like a text in the Indus Valley. The reason the argument fails was something we first noted: no premodern civilization is known that wrote long texts on perishable materials but failed to leave *obvious* and *abundant* examples of such texts behind on durable materials as well. We're not talking here about obscurely buried archives. If in a Gedankenexperiment you took away all perishable materials of any type from China, India, Central Asia, Iran, Anatolia, Greece, Italy, Mesopotamia, Mesoamerica, etc., it wouldn't change one bit our understanding of which civilizations in those regions were literate. This would be due to the massive numbers of long texts, often numbering in the hundreds of thousands, that the literate civilizations of these regions left behind in obvious places. In 2009, five years after our paper was published, we no longer find speculation about the literary "activities of the Harappan scribes and scholars", which Parpola 1994 compared "on the analogy of 'empires' comparable to the Indus Civilization" to Aztec "writing" (Parpola 1994: 54). (Actually, Aztec texts aren't really "writing" at all in the technical sense, as noted above.) In his recent post, Asko tells us instead that the "type of texts I expect to be lost is exemplified by the Mycenaean Linear B tablets, i.e. economic accounts, not literature, which was probably handed down orally...." This doesn't make speculation about lost Indus archives more credible, due to the massive scale of the excavations conducted since the 1920s. Compare here -- we haven't written about this anywhere -- with finds of Linear B, of which we have many thousands of long texts. The first Minoan site ever excavated, at Knossos, quickly turned up no less than 4300 Linear B texts (plus of course seals, etc.). Nearly *all* of these texts are far longer than what is by far the longest "Indus text" on a single surface, consisting of 17 high- frequency but non-repeating signs on a square about 1 inch square. After the find of 4300 long Linear B texts at Knossos, another 1000 or so showed up at Pylos. Then 300 or so from Thebes. And now we have perhaps another 300 so far from other sites. Others turn up every year. These are not obscure finds. Archaeological science rarely proves anything outright, but eventually hypotheses based on speculation concerning *possible* finds introduced to "save" a thesis, but that never materialize are eventually quietly abandoned -- especially when that speculation conflicts with what is commonly known from cross-cultural archaeological studies from many other parts of the world. (India may be "different", as Indologists often say, but not *that* different.) The Indus left thousands of short symbol strings behind on many types of materials, not just "seals" -- pots, potsherds, metal plates, weapons, molded terracotta tablets, incised shells, cones and rods, etc. -- the same kinds of materials on which other civilizations (including those that routinely wrote on perishable materials) left thousands of *long* texts behind. This is especially true of potsherds, which were among the most prevalent writing materials in the ancient world, since they were far cheaper than rather expensive perishable materials (including cloth). You have to have an explanation for that, and of course for all the missing texts, and without one the traditional "Indus script" thesis quite frankly isn't credible. That's it for me, as noted above, unless someone wants to discuss the evidence discussed here. All this will be picked up in Kyoto later this month, so I'm fine in leaving it here. The big issue to the minds of me and my colleagues -- Michael Witzel, Richard Sproat, the archaeologist Dorian Fuller, others -- isn't the now standard question that we introduced five years ago ("Is it a writing system or not?"), but about all the exciting new research avenues that are opened up as soon as you recognize the abundant evidence that says it wasn't. Best wishes, S. Farmer From peterfriedlander at YAHOO.COM.AU Mon May 4 06:00:46 2009 From: peterfriedlander at YAHOO.COM.AU (Peter Friedlander) Date: Sun, 03 May 09 23:00:46 -0700 Subject: Three 'sanskrit' slokas? Message-ID: <161227086107.23782.12574010489654482647.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 711 Lines: 18 Dear colleagues, I am working on a 19th century Jain manuscript in Hindi which contains three 'Sanskrit' slokas. Well sort of, they are as follows, any guesses on where they might be from or might mean? You are welcome to reply off list to me as well on clspgf at nus.edu.sg?if you can suggest any leads on them. thanks, Peter ? AtmvatsarvabhUtAnI par drabANI toSTvata para strImAtRataMyageyaM jo jAnAti paNDitaH ? eva AtmacidrayaH sarIrIkarmAjAgataH dhyAnAgani karmadagaddhAni sajA tiparamaMpadaH. 1 ? prANa raSaNaM tulaMdharmanhI pApazcaprANaghAtakaH kSamAtulaMtapasyai nabhUtobhaviSyatI ? Enjoy a better web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7. Get it now. From tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon May 4 13:10:06 2009 From: tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU (Gary Tubb) Date: Mon, 04 May 09 08:10:06 -0500 Subject: Translations into Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <20090504140949.63681t045c484bul@webmail.helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <161227086112.23782.157572734931447986.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1360 Lines: 33 The appended message is forwarded to the list by request. --Gary Tubb. Dear Editor, I have read with interest the postings on ?Translations into Sanskrit ? and would appreciate if you would post the following under that heading. ?In the 1950s and 1960s the Brahman Sabha of Girgaum, Mumbai undertook to present every year a play in Sanskrit in which well known local actors participated. These plays were well attended by the members of the Sabha and their friends. I think around 10 plays were presented. Of these at least 3 were translations of well known Marathi plays written in late 1800s and early 1900s. They were Sangita Samshyakallolam by R.R. Deshpande and Sangita Shaaradaa by Limaye (based on the Marathi plays of the same name written by Govind Ballal Deval), Sangita Saubhadram by S. B. Velankar (based on the Marathi play of the same name written by Balwant ?Annasaheb? Kirloskar). The original Marathi songs of these plays were easily recognisable in their Sanskrit translations and could be sung in the same raga. Just to add, two more plays Bhartuhariyam (written by V. D. Gangal IAS) and Kalidascharitam (written by S.B. Velankar) were also presented. I have copies of all these plays except Sangita Sharada?. Thank you Dilip Chirmuley From saf at SAFARMER.COM Mon May 4 15:16:41 2009 From: saf at SAFARMER.COM (Steve Farmer) Date: Mon, 04 May 09 08:16:41 -0700 Subject: Linear B texts In-Reply-To: <20090504140949.63681t045c484bul@webmail.helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <161227086114.23782.11206385623081309377.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6282 Lines: 121 Asko Parpola writes, > If the Mycenaeans had written their administrative documents on > perishable material instead of clay, and all those thousands of > texts of this type would have been lost (like all texts written on > perishable material in Ashoka's empire have been lost, and > evidently the Harappan administrative documents -- for it is > difficult to imagine those large cities being managed without any > accounting), would the remaining other types of Linear B texts be > better evidence for Mycenaean literacy than what survives from the > Indus Civilization? > With best regards, "Ashok" Dear "Ashok" -- and I do like the label, :^) This newest speculation claim doesn't answer the evidence I raised in my post, Asko. First of all, we know for a fact that extensive urban civilizations both in Eurasia and in the New World did very well without writing -- both before the invention of writing and after. The Mesopotamian and Minoan/Mycenaean court finance systems in fact were apparently rather anomalous in premodern urban states. For extensive discussion -- and much more can be said -- see M. Fragipane et al. (12 named co-authors), _Arslantepe Cretulae: An Early Centralized Administrative System Before Writing_ (Rome, 2007, 528 pp.), where this issue is developed at considerable length. Also, not long after the Harvard Roundtable meeting where we first met, in 2002, when Michael Witzel and I were first introducing our non-script model, Carl Lamberg-Karlovsky (who was also there) published a little paper, "To write or not to write," in _Culture through Objects_, ed. Timothy Potts et al., Cambridge U. Press, 2003, that discusses at some length non-literate civilizations existing side-by-side with literate ones in premodern Eurasia. (I'll vastly expand on this theme at our upcoming Kyoto meeting, in a talk Michael, Richard Sproat, and I (with me presenting) will give, entitled "The Collapse of the Indus Script Thesis, Five Years Later: Massive Non-Literate Urban Civilizations of Ancient Eurasia". I believe that the archaeologist Dan Potts, who of course knows Gulf and Iranian archaeology better than anyone (see, e.g., _The Archaeology of Elam_, 1999; and his many other studies), may talk about similar topics.) Finally, your invocation of Ashoka below doesn't help your argument. All real literate civilizations, like Ashoka's, whenever they wrote on perishable materials, also, and quite obviously, left extensive texts behind on durable materials. There is no exception to that rule that we know of in world civilizations. That's the key part of this one (out of many) arguments we first collected in "Collapse of the Indus Script Thesis" in 2004: http://www.safarmer.com/fsw2.pdf Of course one could claim that the Indus are the one exception! But then the argument gets even more circular..... I guess I should add at the end that I have often argued (in talks you've attended too) that one special class of Indus inscribed objects -- the rather crudely made so-called miniature tablets from Harappa proper -- had economic uses of a type, as what I've tentatively characterized (e.g., at the Harvard Roundtable in 2004; also Kyoto 2005) as "vouchers" of a sort or as part of a "sacrificial tithe system" in communal seasonal festivals. (None of this in print yet.) But right or wrong -- I think others have made similar suggestions -- that's independent of the "writing" issue. Looking forward to seeing you in Kyoto in a few weeks. We have a new proposal we plan to make in Kyoto for how all of us can collaborate in a new, well financed, way to tap the data in the inscriptions in innovative ways. We're hoping it will interest you. Best wishes, Steve > Quoting "Steve Farmer" : > >> Asko tells us instead that the "type of texts I expect to be lost >> is exemplified by the Mycenaean Linear B tablets, i.e. economic >> accounts, not literature, which was probably handed down orally...." >> >> This doesn't make speculation about lost Indus archives more >> credible, due to the massive scale of the excavations conducted >> since the 1920s. Compare here -- we haven't written about this >> anywhere -- with finds of Linear B, of which we have many >> thousands of long texts. The first Minoan site ever excavated, at >> Knossos, quickly turned up no less than 4300 Linear B texts (plus >> of course seals, etc.). Nearly *all* of these texts are far longer >> than what is by far the longest "Indus text" on a single surface, >> consisting of 17 high-frequency but non-repeating signs on a >> square about 1 inch square. >> >> After the find of 4300 long Linear B texts at Knossos, another >> 1000 or so showed up at Pylos. Then 300 or so from Thebes. And now >> we have perhaps another 300 so far from other sites. Others turn >> up every year. These are not obscure finds. >> >> Archaeological science rarely proves anything outright, but >> eventually hypotheses based on speculation concerning *possible* >> finds introduced to "save" a thesis, but that never materialize >> are eventually quietly abandoned -- especially when that >> speculation conflicts with what is commonly known from cross- >> cultural archaeological studies from many other parts of the >> world. (India may be "different", as Indologists often say, but >> not *that* different.) >> >> The Indus left thousands of short symbol strings behind on many >> types of materials, not just "seals" -- pots, potsherds, metal >> plates, weapons, molded terracotta tablets, incised shells, cones >> and rods, etc. -- the same kinds of materials on which other >> civilizations (including those that routinely wrote on perishable >> materials) left thousands of *long* texts behind. This is >> especially true of potsherds, which were among the most prevalent >> writing materials in the ancient world, since they were far >> cheaper than rather expensive perishable materials (including >> cloth). You have to have an explanation for that, and of course >> for all the missing texts, and without one the traditional "Indus >> script" thesis quite frankly isn't credible. >> From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Mon May 4 16:53:51 2009 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Mon, 04 May 09 09:53:51 -0700 Subject: Linear B texts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086116.23782.16061526422179834429.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7572 Lines: 142 It seems to me there is a fallacy in Steve Farmer's contention that no civilization with writing lacks longer texts. The fact is, if any civilization committed all its writing to perishable materials, we would not know they had writing. There may be 20 or 30 ancient civilizations that had writing about which we have no clue. Thus one cannot argue that if the IV civ. had writing we would necessarily have longer texts. All we know is that they left their symbols on specialized seals and on a couple of artifacts (the famous sign). Carving something on stone or making a seal is a lot more difficult than writing on a palmyra leaf -- there is no reason whatsoever why they couldn't have written longer things (like accounts ) on bark or some other material that is perishable and easier to write on. We have no long examples of writing in Tamil from Sangam times, yet we know that they had writing and wrote longer documents on palmyra leaves. Of course, Farmer et al. have other arguments that need to be considered. George Hart On May 4, 2009, at 8:16 AM, Steve Farmer wrote: > Asko Parpola writes, > >> If the Mycenaeans had written their administrative documents on >> perishable material instead of clay, and all those thousands of >> texts of this type would have been lost (like all texts written on >> perishable material in Ashoka's empire have been lost, and >> evidently the Harappan administrative documents -- for it is >> difficult to imagine those large cities being managed without any >> accounting), would the remaining other types of Linear B texts be >> better evidence for Mycenaean literacy than what survives from the >> Indus Civilization? > >> With best regards, "Ashok" > > Dear "Ashok" -- and I do like the label, :^) > > This newest speculation claim doesn't answer the evidence I raised > in my post, Asko. First of all, we know for a fact that extensive > urban civilizations both in Eurasia and in the New World did very > well without writing -- both before the invention of writing and > after. The Mesopotamian and Minoan/Mycenaean court finance systems > in fact were apparently rather anomalous in premodern urban states. > For extensive discussion -- and much more can be said -- see M. > Fragipane et al. (12 named co-authors), _Arslantepe Cretulae: An > Early Centralized Administrative System Before Writing_ (Rome, 2007, > 528 pp.), where this issue is developed at considerable length. > > Also, not long after the Harvard Roundtable meeting where we first > met, in 2002, when Michael Witzel and I were first introducing our > non-script model, Carl Lamberg-Karlovsky (who was also there) > published a little paper, "To write or not to write," in _Culture > through Objects_, ed. Timothy Potts et al., Cambridge U. Press, > 2003, that discusses at some length non-literate civilizations > existing side-by-side with literate ones in premodern Eurasia. (I'll > vastly expand on this theme at our upcoming Kyoto meeting, in a talk > Michael, Richard Sproat, and I (with me presenting) will give, > entitled "The Collapse of the Indus Script Thesis, Five Years Later: > Massive Non-Literate Urban Civilizations of Ancient Eurasia". I > believe that the archaeologist Dan Potts, who of course knows Gulf > and Iranian archaeology better than anyone (see, e.g., _The > Archaeology of Elam_, 1999; and his many other studies), may talk > about similar topics.) > > Finally, your invocation of Ashoka below doesn't help your argument. > All real literate civilizations, like Ashoka's, whenever they wrote > on perishable materials, also, and quite obviously, left extensive > texts behind on durable materials. There is no exception to that > rule that we know of in world civilizations. That's the key part of > this one (out of many) arguments we first collected in "Collapse of > the Indus Script Thesis" in 2004: > > http://www.safarmer.com/fsw2.pdf > > Of course one could claim that the Indus are the one exception! But > then the argument gets even more circular..... > > I guess I should add at the end that I have often argued (in talks > you've attended too) that one special class of Indus inscribed > objects -- the rather crudely made so-called miniature tablets from > Harappa proper -- had economic uses of a type, as what I've > tentatively characterized (e.g., at the Harvard Roundtable in 2004; > also Kyoto 2005) as "vouchers" of a sort or as part of a > "sacrificial tithe system" in communal seasonal festivals. (None of > this in print yet.) But right or wrong -- I think others have made > similar suggestions -- that's independent of the "writing" issue. > > Looking forward to seeing you in Kyoto in a few weeks. We have a new > proposal we plan to make in Kyoto for how all of us can collaborate > in a new, well financed, way to tap the data in the inscriptions in > innovative ways. We're hoping it will interest you. > > Best wishes, > Steve > >> Quoting "Steve Farmer" : >> >>> Asko tells us instead that the "type of texts I expect to be lost >>> is exemplified by the Mycenaean Linear B tablets, i.e. economic >>> accounts, not literature, which was probably handed down orally...." >>> >>> This doesn't make speculation about lost Indus archives more >>> credible, due to the massive scale of the excavations conducted >>> since the 1920s. Compare here -- we haven't written about this >>> anywhere -- with finds of Linear B, of which we have many >>> thousands of long texts. The first Minoan site ever excavated, at >>> Knossos, quickly turned up no less than 4300 Linear B texts (plus >>> of course seals, etc.). Nearly *all* of these texts are far longer >>> than what is by far the longest "Indus text" on a single surface, >>> consisting of 17 high-frequency but non-repeating signs on a >>> square about 1 inch square. >>> >>> After the find of 4300 long Linear B texts at Knossos, another >>> 1000 or so showed up at Pylos. Then 300 or so from Thebes. And now >>> we have perhaps another 300 so far from other sites. Others turn >>> up every year. These are not obscure finds. >>> >>> Archaeological science rarely proves anything outright, but >>> eventually hypotheses based on speculation concerning *possible* >>> finds introduced to "save" a thesis, but that never materialize >>> are eventually quietly abandoned -- especially when that >>> speculation conflicts with what is commonly known from cross- >>> cultural archaeological studies from many other parts of the >>> world. (India may be "different", as Indologists often say, but >>> not *that* different.) >>> >>> The Indus left thousands of short symbol strings behind on many >>> types of materials, not just "seals" -- pots, potsherds, metal >>> plates, weapons, molded terracotta tablets, incised shells, cones >>> and rods, etc. -- the same kinds of materials on which other >>> civilizations (including those that routinely wrote on perishable >>> materials) left thousands of *long* texts behind. This is >>> especially true of potsherds, which were among the most prevalent >>> writing materials in the ancient world, since they were far >>> cheaper than rather expensive perishable materials (including >>> cloth). You have to have an explanation for that, and of course >>> for all the missing texts, and without one the traditional "Indus >>> script" thesis quite frankly isn't credible. >>> From saf at SAFARMER.COM Mon May 4 19:23:41 2009 From: saf at SAFARMER.COM (Steve Farmer) Date: Mon, 04 May 09 12:23:41 -0700 Subject: Linear B texts In-Reply-To: <1D712055-859C-4E63-BF6C-714F6C25BD26@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227086119.23782.17500482693538630065.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7664 Lines: 151 George Hart writes: > It seems to me there is a fallacy in Steve Farmer's contention that > no civilization with writing lacks longer texts. The fact is, if > any civilization committed all its writing to perishable materials, > we would not know they had writing. There may be 20 or 30 ancient > civilizations that had writing about which we have no clue. Thus > one cannot argue that if the IV civ. had writing we would > necessarily have longer texts. All we know is that they left their > symbols on specialized seals and on a couple of artifacts (the > famous sign). Carving something on stone or making a seal is a lot > more difficult than writing on a palmyra leaf -- there is no reason > whatsoever why they couldn't have written longer things (like > accounts ) on bark or some other material that is perishable and > easier to write on. We have no long examples of writing in Tamil > from Sangam times, yet we know that they had writing and wrote > longer documents on palmyra leaves. Of course, Farmer et al. have > other arguments that need to be considered. Dear George: Ignoring all the purely speculative "what if's" in your post, just a reminder, although I hate to repeat myself: what we in fact argue is that no known civilization that wrote long texts on perishable materials didn't also leave texts of significant length behind on durable materials. On your claims about the earliest Tamil inscriptions: I know this is your field, but your claims here are demonstrably wrong. See the photo and discussion below. The fact is, the Indus left *thousands* of short symbol strings behind on all sorts of durable objects -- not just on "a couple of artifacts." Huge numbers of symbol strings on potsherds haven't even been cataloged, as you'd find if you read the excavation reports. None of them is of any length, unlike the situation in all known literate civilizations in antiquity. Moreover, if we believe the dates given by the Harappa Archaeological Research Project (HARP), run by Richard Meadow and Mark Kenoyer, those finds extend over a millennium. As already noted, these durable materials include *exactly* the same kinds of materials that truly literate civilizations routinely wrote long texts on. There are issues of pausibility at stake here, leaving aside totally untestable speculation that "There may be 20 or 30 ancient civilizations that had writing about which we have no clue." Well, there usually are clues -- and also clues when you're not looking at "writing" but other types of ancient symbols, of which there are in fact many "flavors," as we've discovered over the past decade. Quickly: Why everyplace else in the world where we KNOW there was literacy would we find literate peoples leaving long texts behind on potsherds, pottery, metal plates, vessels, weapons, etc.? -- while in the Indus civilization *only* they *exclusively* left symbols behind on the same types of objects that were *never* more than a handful of symbols long? I guess you could in principle argue that there was a taboo on leaving long texts behind but not thousands of short ones. :^) Well, one Indus researcher whose whole career has revolved around "Indus writing" has actually said something, obviously rather in desperation. .... You write that "carving something on stone or making a seal is a lot more difficult than writing on a palmyra leaf." This is in fact not true, George. As you'll recall when you think about it, preparation of palm leaves for writing is a quite elaborate and time-consuming practice. It is also expensive (as is writing on materials like cloth, parchment, silk, papyrus; wood also takes special preparation). See for one review, Anupam Sah, "Palm leaf manuscripts of the world: material, technology, and conservation," Reviews in Conservation (2002): 15-24. We take perishable writing materials for granted. The ancients could not. Scratching on a potsherd, on the other hand, is quick, extremely cost efficient, and very useful, especially for accounting records. (Think here of the hundreds of thousands of ostraca with accounting records we have from the ancient Mediterranean.) We have many hundreds of thousands of examples of potsherd fragments with real writing and quite long texts from all over the ancient world -- including India, but of course not from Indus times. In any event, take a look at our already detailed discussion of this issue on around p. 23 in "Collapse" (), and esp. Fig. 1. One final and obviously critical point -- since it involves your own field. You write: > We have no long examples of writing in Tamil from Sangam times, yet > we know that they had writing and wrote longer documents on palmyra > leaves. I hate to point out that claims from someone who is a specialist (as you are) in this field are wrong, but.... :^) If you in fact look at the photos of the very earliest Tamil inscriptions, in Iravatham Mahadevan, _Early Tamil Epigraphy: From the Earliest Times to the Sixth Century A.D._, Harvard, 2003 (in the series edited by Michael), you'll see unambiguous evidence that the inscriptions, scarce as they are, were *regularly* longer than *any* of the thousands of Indus "inscriptions" from many centuries of Indus civilization. Ouch! I always thought that was amusing, and when Mahadevan published his wonderful 2003 book I pointed out the irony to him when we both gave talks at a big Indus conference. In fact, the very FIRST inscription he gives in his book (pp. 314-15), which he dates to the 2nd century BCE, is in fact well over three times longer than any Indus inscription gathered over the past 135 years from large numbers of sites dating from the late 4th millennium to early 2nd millennium! Take a look at this scan I just made of Mahadevan's transcription of that piece: http://www.safarmer.com/Indo-Eurasian/early.tamil.inscription.jpg If anyone came up with one such real (not fake) Indus inscription, Michael, Richard, and I would have to fork over $10,000. (It won't happen, but we'd *gleefully* turn over the $10 K -- not our money, but an anonymous donor's -- for reasons we explain in our 2004 paper.) We've carefully looked at all these counter-arguments, George -- trying to falsify our own model. That's what goes on in science, if it is real science: trying to "save" a busted model is a scholastic and not scientific exercise. Things in fact only get interesting when models get busted, so you try every way to find holes in your own arguments -- not burying those holes anyway you can. (That's what I learned from my years hanging out with theoretical high-energy physicists: I quickly learned that unfortunately that wasn't the norm in ancient studies.) But the evidence wins in the long run, and then you move on to the new interesting places that takes you. That's what we plan to do in Kyoto later this month. Hmm, why do I feel as if I'm in a tag-team wrestling match with Dravidianists? Is there a bigger story here that involves things thousands of kilometers (and years) from any Indus sites? :^) > Of course, Farmer et al. have other arguments that need to be > considered. Indeed, and those arguments are constantly being missummarized in the discussions. We are very careful in our arguments --- and we try to careful summarize the positions of those on the other side. That's a requirement for honest scientific discussion, as we see it. Best wishes, S. Farmer From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Mon May 4 20:41:33 2009 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Mon, 04 May 09 13:41:33 -0700 Subject: Linear B texts In-Reply-To: <99450102-F055-4DB4-89D2-176B2A7D75CC@safarmer.com> Message-ID: <161227086121.23782.15535502991849208893.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 10030 Lines: 193 Dear Steve, Thanks for your reply. Of course, our Tamil inscriptions from Sangam times are longer than the IV writing/symbols, but they're still relatively short, which was my point, and very very few have survived. You wrote, "The reason the argument fails was something we first noted: no premodern civilization is known that wrote long texts on perishable materials but failed to leave *obvious* and *abundant* examples of such texts behind on durable materials as well." Your premise is correct, but your conclusion (that the IV civilization could not have had writing) does not follow, as we have no way of knowing of (perhaps numerous) civilizations that had writing but left no surviving record. This is not a "what if," but a purely logical problem. What's more, each of the civilizations we know about had its own peculiar and distinguishing features. Surely, it's not a stretch to imagine that the IV people wrote longer texts on perishable materials. As I said, this does not affect your other arguments. As far as "Dravidianists" are concerned -- I think there has been a natural and understandable tendency to speculate that the IV Civ might have spoken a Dravidian language. Michael Witzel takes issue with this in his extraordinarily detailed articles on substratum languages in the RV, and his arguments are impressive -- though they're not conclusive, in my opinion. I do, however, find myself tending to accept his idea that the linguistic composition of the IV and surrounding areas at the time of the RV was quite complex, and that Dravidian was only one of several families spoken there. My particular concern is to get some notion of the prehistory of South India and the influx (if there was one) of the Dravidian languages into that area. While this area is outside my expertise, my impression is that Dravidian speakers might have come to South India about 3000 BC and brought neolithic culture. I'd be interested if others have evidence in this regard. George On May 4, 2009, at 12:23 PM, Steve Farmer wrote: > George Hart writes: > >> It seems to me there is a fallacy in Steve Farmer's contention that >> no civilization with writing lacks longer texts. The fact is, if >> any civilization committed all its writing to perishable materials, >> we would not know they had writing. There may be 20 or 30 ancient >> civilizations that had writing about which we have no clue. Thus >> one cannot argue that if the IV civ. had writing we would >> necessarily have longer texts. All we know is that they left their >> symbols on specialized seals and on a couple of artifacts (the >> famous sign). Carving something on stone or making a seal is a lot >> more difficult than writing on a palmyra leaf -- there is no reason >> whatsoever why they couldn't have written longer things (like >> accounts ) on bark or some other material that is perishable and >> easier to write on. We have no long examples of writing in Tamil >> from Sangam times, yet we know that they had writing and wrote >> longer documents on palmyra leaves. Of course, Farmer et al. have >> other arguments that need to be considered. > > Dear George: > > Ignoring all the purely speculative "what if's" in your post, just a > reminder, although I hate to repeat myself: what we in fact argue is > that no known civilization that wrote long texts on perishable > materials didn't also leave texts of significant length behind on > durable materials. > > On your claims about the earliest Tamil inscriptions: I know this is > your field, but your claims here are demonstrably wrong. See the > photo and discussion below. > > The fact is, the Indus left *thousands* of short symbol strings > behind on all sorts of durable objects -- not just on "a couple of > artifacts." Huge numbers of symbol strings on potsherds haven't even > been cataloged, as you'd find if you read the excavation reports. > None of them is of any length, unlike the situation in all known > literate civilizations in antiquity. > > Moreover, if we believe the dates given by the Harappa > Archaeological Research Project (HARP), run by Richard Meadow and > Mark Kenoyer, those finds extend over a millennium. As already > noted, these durable materials include *exactly* the same kinds of > materials that truly literate civilizations routinely wrote long > texts on. > > There are issues of pausibility at stake here, leaving aside totally > untestable speculation that "There may be 20 or 30 ancient > civilizations that had writing about which we have no clue." Well, > there usually are clues -- and also clues when you're not looking at > "writing" but other types of ancient symbols, of which there are in > fact many "flavors," as we've discovered over the past decade. > > Quickly: Why everyplace else in the world where we KNOW there was > literacy would we find literate peoples leaving long texts behind on > potsherds, pottery, metal plates, vessels, weapons, etc.? -- while > in the Indus civilization *only* they *exclusively* left symbols > behind on the same types of objects that were *never* more than a > handful of symbols long? > > I guess you could in principle argue that there was a taboo on > leaving long texts behind but not thousands of short ones. :^) Well, > one Indus researcher whose whole career has revolved around "Indus > writing" has actually said something, obviously rather in > desperation. .... > > You write that "carving something on stone or making a seal is a lot > more difficult than writing on a palmyra leaf." This is in fact not > true, George. As you'll recall when you think about it, preparation > of palm leaves for writing is a quite elaborate and time-consuming > practice. It is also expensive (as is writing on materials like > cloth, parchment, silk, papyrus; wood also takes special preparation). > > See for one review, Anupam Sah, "Palm leaf manuscripts of the world: > material, technology, and conservation," Reviews in Conservation > (2002): 15-24. > > We take perishable writing materials for granted. The ancients could > not. Scratching on a potsherd, on the other hand, is quick, > extremely cost efficient, and very useful, especially for accounting > records. (Think here of the hundreds of thousands of ostraca with > accounting records we have from the ancient Mediterranean.) We have > many hundreds of thousands of examples of potsherd fragments with > real writing and quite long texts from all over the ancient world -- > including India, but of course not from Indus times. In any event, > take a look at our already detailed discussion of this issue on > around p. 23 in "Collapse" (), and > esp. Fig. 1. > > One final and obviously critical point -- since it involves your own > field. You write: > >> We have no long examples of writing in Tamil from Sangam times, yet >> we know that they had writing and wrote longer documents on palmyra >> leaves. > > I hate to point out that claims from someone who is a specialist (as > you are) in this field are wrong, but.... :^) If you in fact look at > the photos of the very earliest Tamil inscriptions, in Iravatham > Mahadevan, _Early Tamil Epigraphy: From the Earliest Times to the > Sixth Century A.D._, Harvard, 2003 (in the series edited by > Michael), you'll see unambiguous evidence that the inscriptions, > scarce as they are, were *regularly* longer than *any* of the > thousands of Indus "inscriptions" from many centuries of Indus > civilization. > > Ouch! I always thought that was amusing, and when Mahadevan > published his wonderful 2003 book I pointed out the irony to him > when we both gave talks at a big Indus conference. In fact, the very > FIRST inscription he gives in his book (pp. 314-15), which he dates > to the 2nd century BCE, is in fact well over three times longer than > any Indus inscription gathered over the past 135 years from large > numbers of sites dating from the late 4th millennium to early 2nd > millennium! Take a look at this scan I just made of Mahadevan's > transcription of that piece: > > http://www.safarmer.com/Indo-Eurasian/early.tamil.inscription.jpg > > If anyone came up with one such real (not fake) Indus inscription, > Michael, Richard, and I would have to fork over $10,000. (It won't > happen, but we'd *gleefully* turn over the $10 K -- not our money, > but an anonymous donor's -- for reasons we explain in our 2004 paper.) > > We've carefully looked at all these counter-arguments, George -- > trying to falsify our own model. That's what goes on in science, if > it is real science: trying to "save" a busted model is a scholastic > and not scientific exercise. Things in fact only get interesting > when models get busted, so you try every way to find holes in your > own arguments -- not burying those holes anyway you can. (That's > what I learned from my years hanging out with theoretical high- > energy physicists: I quickly learned that unfortunately that wasn't > the norm in ancient studies.) > > But the evidence wins in the long run, and then you move on to the > new interesting places that takes you. That's what we plan to do in > Kyoto later this month. > > Hmm, why do I feel as if I'm in a tag-team wrestling match with > Dravidianists? Is there a bigger story here that involves things > thousands of kilometers (and years) from any Indus sites? :^) > >> Of course, Farmer et al. have other arguments that need to be >> considered. > > Indeed, and those arguments are constantly being missummarized in > the discussions. We are very careful in our arguments --- and we try > to careful summarize the positions of those on the other side. > That's a requirement for honest scientific discussion, as we see it. > > Best wishes, > S. Farmer From asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI Mon May 4 11:09:49 2009 From: asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI (Asko Parpola) Date: Mon, 04 May 09 14:09:49 +0300 Subject: Linear B texts In-Reply-To: <436F97BA-3497-40F5-971E-182D04A2F54C@safarmer.com> Message-ID: <161227086109.23782.9628884729951027677.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3043 Lines: 64 If the Mycenaeans had written their administrative documents on perishable material instead of clay, and all those thousands of texts of this type would have been lost (like all texts written on perishable material in Ashoka's empire have been lost, and evidently the Harappan administrative documents -- for it is difficult to imagine those large cities being managed without any accounting), would the remaining other types of Linear B texts be better evidence for Mycenaean literacy than what survives from the Indus Civilization? With best regards, "Ashok" Quoting "Steve Farmer" : > Asko tells us instead that the "type of texts I expect to be lost is > exemplified by the Mycenaean Linear B tablets, i.e. economic > accounts, not literature, which was probably handed down orally...." > > This doesn't make speculation about lost Indus archives more > credible, due to the massive scale of the excavations conducted > since the 1920s. Compare here -- we haven't written about this > anywhere -- with finds of Linear B, of which we have many thousands > of long texts. The first Minoan site ever excavated, at Knossos, > quickly turned up no less than 4300 Linear B texts (plus of course > seals, etc.). Nearly *all* of these texts are far longer than what > is by far the longest "Indus text" on a single surface, consisting > of 17 high-frequency but non-repeating signs on a square about 1 > inch square. > > After the find of 4300 long Linear B texts at Knossos, another 1000 > or so showed up at Pylos. Then 300 or so from Thebes. And now we > have perhaps another 300 so far from other sites. Others turn up > every year. These are not obscure finds. > > Archaeological science rarely proves anything outright, but > eventually hypotheses based on speculation concerning *possible* > finds introduced to "save" a thesis, but that never materialize are > eventually quietly abandoned -- especially when that speculation > conflicts with what is commonly known from cross-cultural > archaeological studies from many other parts of the world. (India > may be "different", as Indologists often say, but not *that* > different.) > > The Indus left thousands of short symbol strings behind on many > types of materials, not just "seals" -- pots, potsherds, metal > plates, weapons, molded terracotta tablets, incised shells, cones > and rods, etc. -- the same kinds of materials on which other > civilizations (including those that routinely wrote on perishable > materials) left thousands of *long* texts behind. This is especially > true of potsherds, which were among the most prevalent writing > materials in the ancient world, since they were far cheaper than > rather expensive perishable materials (including cloth). You have to > have an explanation for that, and of course for all the missing > texts, and without one the traditional "Indus script" thesis quite > frankly isn't credible. > > > Best wishes, > S. Farmer > > From saf at SAFARMER.COM Mon May 4 21:30:37 2009 From: saf at SAFARMER.COM (Steve Farmer) Date: Mon, 04 May 09 14:30:37 -0700 Subject: Linear B texts In-Reply-To: <1E23F5BF-871A-4470-9335-3904243F8DA2@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227086123.23782.14866415032508587802.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5032 Lines: 99 Thanks, George. Everything you say in your most recent note is speculative, as I'm sure you'd admit, so it's hard to know how to respond. Is there a logical contradiction (as opposed to a question of plausibility) in claiming that the Indus were the only ancient people who have been claimed to be literate who (1) supposedly over many centuries wrote long texts on perishable materials, all of which have disappeared; and who (2) simultaneously left thousands of short "texts" (averaging 4-5 symbols long, often less) behind -- the only supposed evidence of their putative "literacy" -- on durable materials of many different types on which all other known literate civilizations left *long* texts? It isn't logically impossible, but it is grossly improbable when you compare the situation with evidence from *every* known literate civilizatio (including later ones from India, of course). But why would anyone bother with such improbable theses unless there were other motives at work? It's certainly nothing I'd prefer to discuss, but scientific discussion does take time (see on Frank Southworth, below). You write: > As far as "Dravidianists" are concerned -- I think there has been a > natural and understandable tendency to speculate that the IV Civ > might have spoken a Dravidian language. Michael Witzel takes issue > with this in his extraordinarily detailed articles on substratum > languages in the RV, and his arguments are impressive -- though > they're not conclusive, in my opinion. I do, however, find myself > tending to accept his idea that the linguistic composition of the > IV and surrounding areas at the time of the RV was quite complex, > and that Dravidian was only one of several families spoken there. Let me hand the ball over to Michael here in my own tag-team, if possible, since I'm getting worn out in center ring. :^) (Actually, Michael may not be available for a while, but I'll see him in Kyoto in a few weeks.) On this very point: I never could figure out (as a comparativist, not a S. Asianist: Michael is the S. Asianist component of my brain) why anyone would view the Indus regions as being mono-linguistic. I think it is only because I *was* an outsider that it seemed so strange to me. Then Michael and I discussed this issue in extenso in 1999, when he published some key papers on the substratum issue. Steve Weber (the Indus archaeologist, with whom we've worked a bit, along with Dorian Fuller) and I once had a conversation about this I'll never forget. Steve was a student of Possehl's and told me that when he was trained, the question was always presented in stark terms filled with unevidenced assumptions: "Which language (sic) did the Indus symbols encode? Was it some proto-Dravidian language or some early form of Indo-Aryan?" As Steve W. pointed out, the either/or issue was presented so definitively that no one even thought of alternatives. We realize now -- and I'm including here now Steve W. -- that there were a lot of assumptions in these leading questions, in what magicians call "Magician's Choice": (1) the unexamined assumption before Michael and I began working on this together, later joined by Richard Sproat, that there was a language of some sort encoded in these symbols; (2) the (largely) unexamined assumption that the Indus supposedly spoke one language (a pretty odd assumption when you consider the linguistic diversity in those regions in every other period, ancient or modern!); and (3) unexamined assumption three, that the "language" was supposedly proto-Dravidian (an even odder choice when you look at the evidence on the historical movements of Dravidian-speaking peoples, as Michael and many others now have argued at length). I remember how happy we all were when our good friend Frank Southworth (and deeply ingrained "Dravidianist" himself) finally capitulated after lots of heated and fun discussions at Harvard (and over drinks) on this back in 2004. During the 2004 Roundtable, he called his wife on the phone and said something along the lines of "Honey, I'm afraid we have to give in." :^) Frank was gracious enough after reading an early copy of "Collapse" to change key lines in the final proofs of _The Linguistic Archaeology of South Asia_ (2005) on the Indus issue. You write: > My particular concern is to get some notion of the prehistory of > South India and the influx (if there was one) of the Dravidian > languages into that area. While this area is outside my expertise, > my impression is that Dravidian speakers might have come to South > India about 3000 BC and brought neolithic culture. I'd be > interested if others have evidence in this regard. On this issue I'm very pleased to say I'm a total spectator -- which may allow me with this post to slip out the door. :^) Maybe we'll have more to say after some announcements in Kyoto. Best wishes and thanks, Steve From saf at SAFARMER.COM Tue May 5 00:47:37 2009 From: saf at SAFARMER.COM (Steve Farmer) Date: Mon, 04 May 09 17:47:37 -0700 Subject: Linear B texts In-Reply-To: <49FF869C.7020607@comcast.net> Message-ID: <161227086128.23782.4423257288567362210.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 963 Lines: 25 On May 4, 2009, at 5:21 PM, George Thompson wrote: > I believe that if one were to check the archives of this list, one > would find much discussion of the Indus Valley Civilization in > which scepticism that the IVC signs were a script is often expressed. Interesting, George! Can you quote some posts from before late 1999 (when I first posted on the List) where that is "often expressed?" I'm interested in seeing them. I've pointed to Fairservis' early partial suggestions to this from around 1969, but then he changed his mind after the claims came out that the "code" had been "broken." Lots of people have said after our work was published that they were privately skeptical about it (e.g., Frits Staal), but I didn't know of expressions (with arguments? without them?) on the List. Possehl's overview of the field from 1996 doesn't contain any hints along this direction. Anyway, credit isn't what is a stake here. Best, Steve From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Tue May 5 00:21:48 2009 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (George Thompson) Date: Mon, 04 May 09 20:21:48 -0400 Subject: Linear B texts In-Reply-To: <8F547756-AC8F-4480-A072-DCCD45BF3F8E@safarmer.com> Message-ID: <161227086126.23782.11760553243317393804.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1489 Lines: 33 S. Farmer wrote: <> I believe that if one were to check the archives of this list, one would find much discussion of the Indus Valley Civilization in which scepticism that the IVC signs were a script is often expressed. One would also find in these archives suggestions that IVC was possibly or even probably multilingual. India has been multilingual for as long as we have known it. All of this was known long before S. Farmer appeared on the scene "like some refreshing breath of fresh air" [in his own mind, that is]. Self-aggrandizement aside, there is little new here. The Farmer Sproat Witzel thesis is well-known already, and I am inclined to accept it. Parpola has offered only vaguely possible alternatives, hardly convincing. But Farmer has been quoted as stating that there is "zero chance" that the IVC signs reflect a true script! "Zero chance"? Is this an accurate quotation, and do Sproat and Witzel agree with it? Is the phrase "zero chance" truly scientific -- or is it, rather, merely more bluster from him? George Thompson > From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Tue May 5 01:34:40 2009 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (George Thompson) Date: Mon, 04 May 09 21:34:40 -0400 Subject: Linear B texts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086130.23782.6691635206199841561.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1341 Lines: 39 Since Michael Witzel is the S. Asianist component of your brain, maybe you should consult him or it. I've got too many students and friends and family to take care of right now. I have given my suggestions. Pursue them for yourself, or not. As for credit *not* being at stake here: who are you kidding? GT Steve Farmer wrote: > On May 4, 2009, at 5:21 PM, George Thompson wrote: > >> I believe that if one were to check the archives of this list, one >> would find much discussion of the Indus Valley Civilization in which >> scepticism that the IVC signs were a script is often expressed. > > > Interesting, George! Can you quote some posts from before late 1999 > (when I first posted on the List) where that is "often expressed?" > I'm interested in seeing them. > > I've pointed to Fairservis' early partial suggestions to this from > around 1969, but then he changed his mind after the claims came out > that the "code" had been "broken." Lots of people have said after our > work was published that they were privately skeptical about it (e.g., > Frits Staal), but I didn't know of expressions (with arguments? > without them?) on the List. Possehl's overview of the field from 1996 > doesn't contain any hints along this direction. > > Anyway, credit isn't what is a stake here. > > Best, > Steve > > From fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU Tue May 5 12:00:41 2009 From: fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU (FRITS STAAL) Date: Tue, 05 May 09 05:00:41 -0700 Subject: INDOLOGY website update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086134.23782.13315081175392550823.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 671 Lines: 36 Do you think such blogs would be of any use to me? Can I open them? Thanks as always, best, Frits > The "links" section of the INDOLOGY website now contains a new section > listing indology-related blogs. > > http://indology.info/links/weblog/ > > Please send any suggestions for additional blogsites to > > indologycommittee at liverpool.ac.uk > > Additions to the INDOLOGY webiste listing will be at the discretion of the > committee. > > Best, > Dominik Wujastyk > > -- > Dr Dominik Wujastyk > International Institute of Asian Studies > http://iias.nl > > long term email address: wujastyk at gmail.com > Frits Staal http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/staal From d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK Tue May 5 10:31:58 2009 From: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 05 May 09 11:31:58 +0100 Subject: INDOLOGY website update Message-ID: <161227086132.23782.1097881200469336030.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 485 Lines: 24 The "links" section of the INDOLOGY website now contains a new section listing indology-related blogs. http://indology.info/links/weblog/ Please send any suggestions for additional blogsites to indologycommittee at liverpool.ac.uk Additions to the INDOLOGY webiste listing will be at the discretion of the committee. Best, Dominik Wujastyk -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk International Institute of Asian Studies http://iias.nl long term email address: wujastyk at gmail.com From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Wed May 6 18:52:09 2009 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Wed, 06 May 09 14:52:09 -0400 Subject: Hindi Lecturer Position at Michigan Message-ID: <161227086137.23782.145122579861753091.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2129 Lines: 19 Dear Indologists, Here is the Ad for a Hindi Lecturer Position at the University of Michigan. Please circulate it among interested individuals. Thanks. "The Department of Asian Languages and Cultures at University of Michigan invites applications for the position of Lecturer I in Hindi beginning September 1, 2009. The position is a renewable one-year appointment, and is subject to final budgetary approval. Applicants should have a Master?s degree in a relevant field such as the following: Hindi language, literature, or linguistics; Hindi Studies; second-language acquisition, TESL, etc. Native or near-native proficiency in Hindi and English is required; at least one year of experience teaching Hindi at the college/university level is preferred. Duties will include 12 weekly hours of instruction in all levels of Hindi language and active participation in teamwork and program affairs. The application dossier should include an application letter explaining your qualifications and teaching philosophy, a current CV, and three letters of recommendation. In addition, evidence of teaching excellence, a teaching demo videotape/DVD, and/or samples of self-developed teaching materials would be desirable. Kindly send your application packet to: Hindi Lecturer Search Committee, Department of Asian Languages and Cultures, University of Michigan, Suite 6111 Thayer Building, 202 South Thayer, Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608. Or electronically Review of applications will begin on June 1 and will continue until the position is filled. University of Michigan is a non-discriminatory/affirmative action employer. Women and minorities are encouraged to apply. Terms and conditions for this position are subject to the provisions of a Collective Bargaining Agreement between the University of Michigan and the Lecturers? Employee Organization." Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA ________________________________________ From r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG Wed May 6 21:46:53 2009 From: r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Thu, 07 May 09 09:46:53 +1200 Subject: INDOLOGY updates now on _Twitter_ Message-ID: <161227086139.23782.6154549929279006322.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1261 Lines: 49 Dear Colleagues, Lately I've been wondering about the best way to quickly provide updates on the INDOLOGY web site and the SARIT Project &c., so I've decided to try something new. The existing RSS Feed for the site: http://indology.info/rss1.xml is being replaced by a new RSS Feed courtesy of _Twitter_: *RSS Feed of INDOLOGY's Updates* http://twitter.com/statuses/user_timeline/38036206.rss People are asked to update their feed readers and perhaps consider following our updates through _Twitter_ itself: *INDOLOGY on Twitter* http://twitter.com/INDOLOGY For those curious about why _Twitter_ is being tried these links may be helpful: This is how we do it: @nlnz on Twitter (National Library of New Zealand / Te Puna M?tauranga o Aotearoa) http://tinyurl.com/dx2ktf Why I Love Twitter by Tim O'Reilly http://radar.oreilly.com/2008/11/why-i-like-twitter.html Best regards, Richard -- Richard MAHONEY | internet: http://indica-et-buddhica.org/ Littledene | telephone/telefax (man.): +64 3 312 1699 Bay Road | cellular: +64 275 829 986 OXFORD, NZ | email: r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Indica et Buddhica: Materials for Indology and Buddhology From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Thu May 7 19:26:21 2009 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Thu, 07 May 09 15:26:21 -0400 Subject: TAMIL Lecturer Position at Michigan Message-ID: <161227086146.23782.4932827461309900602.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2107 Lines: 19 Dear Indologists, Here is the Ad for a Tamil Lecturer Position at the University of Michigan. Please circulate it among interested individuals. Thanks. The Department of Asian Languages and Cultures at University of Michigan invites applications for a renewable Lecturer position in Tamil language starting September 1, 2009. Applicants should have an MA in a relevant field, native or near-native competence in oral/written Tamil and English, at least two years of experience in teaching Tamil as a second or foreign language at the college/university level, knowledge of the US educational system, and familiarity with language teaching methodologies as well as computer-assisted language instruction. Expertise and experience in curriculum and program development are preferred. Responsibilities include 10-12 instructional hours a week at any assigned levels and active involvement in teamwork and program affairs. A complete dossier includes a letter of application explaining your qualifications and teaching philosophy, a current CV, evidence of teaching excellence, a teaching demo DVD, and three letters of recommendation. Samples of materials and/or project development are strongly recommended. Please send all your application documents to Tamil Lecturer Search Committee, Department of Asian Languages and Cultures, University of Michigan, 202 S. Thayer Street, Suite 6111, Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608. Review of applications will begin March 10 and continue until the position is filled. University of Michigan is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action employer. Terms and conditions for this position are subject to the provisions of a Collective Bargaining Agreement between the University of Michigan and the Lecturers? Employee Organization. Inquiries should be directed to Nikki Branch (enb at umich.edu), Department Administrator. Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA ________________________________________ From victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL Thu May 7 15:09:19 2009 From: victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL (victor van Bijlert) Date: Thu, 07 May 09 17:09:19 +0200 Subject: Dr.Godard Hendrik Schokker passed away Message-ID: <161227086141.23782.11935435136424559984.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 749 Lines: 17 On the first of May Dr. Godard Schokker had passed away. Dr.Schokker had been teaching Hindi language and literature as well as Marathi and Bengali at the Institute Kern of Leiden University, The Netherlands. Dr. Schokker had retired many years ago was still very active in his field of indology. I am sure many people: colleagues and former students will miss him and fondly remember his patient but steady way of explaining the knotty points of Hindi grammar. One of dr. Schokker's last writings was a contribution together with dr. M.K.Gautam on Johan Josua Ketelaar (1659-1718) and the first summary of Hindustani grammar in Dutch for the servants of the Dutch East India Company (the VOC). Victor van Bijlert Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Thu May 7 16:36:31 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Thu, 07 May 09 22:06:31 +0530 Subject: Dr.Godard Hendrik Schokker passed away Message-ID: <161227086144.23782.17374668151430432039.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1659 Lines: 38 This is sad news. Dr.Schokker's character was charming and unassuming. I never knew from him that he was a good Sanskrit philologist too. Even only a knowledge of his acquaintance with and broad interpretation of late medieval Hindi literature and literary movements made one discern a distinct scholarship and personality. Schokker well recognised the social content underlying the religion oriented literature. Not many in the West will see 'protestantism' in Meera and Kabir. Dipak Bhattacharya --- On Thu, 7/5/09, victor van Bijlert wrote: From: victor van Bijlert Subject: Dr.Godard Hendrik Schokker passed away To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Thursday, 7 May, 2009, 8:39 PM On the first of May Dr. Godard Schokker had passed away. Dr.Schokker had been teaching Hindi language and literature as well as Marathi and Bengali at the Institute Kern of Leiden University, The Netherlands. Dr. Schokker had retired many years ago was still very active in his field of indology. I am sure many people: colleagues and former students will miss him and fondly remember his patient but steady way of explaining the knotty points of Hindi grammar. One of dr. Schokker's last writings was a contribution together with dr. M.K.Gautam on Johan Josua Ketelaar (1659-1718) and the first summary of Hindustani grammar in Dutch for the servants of the Dutch East India Company (the VOC). Victor van Bijlert Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam Now surf faster and smarter ! Check out the new Firefox 3 - Yahoo! Edition http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/firefox/?fr=om_email_firefox From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Fri May 8 11:15:01 2009 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Fri, 08 May 09 07:15:01 -0400 Subject: Unusual word - help needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086162.23782.15937723489908025624.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1517 Lines: 41 Hello Venetia, ?tasthu?? is the feminine form of ?tasthivas, masculine: ?tasthiv?n, from ?+sth?. [Perfect Participle, Whitney's Sanskrit Grammar, p. 291.] The verbal construction will be: striya? talpam ?ti??hante "the women resort to ..." Best, Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of venetia ansell [venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM] Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 6:38 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Unusual word - help needed Can anyone help me with the form of ?tasthu????m from Vedanta Deshika's Hamsasandesham 1.20? The verse and translation are below and I've added the glosses that two commentaries give: ik?u-cch?ye kisalaya-maya? talpam ?tasthu????? sa?l?pais tair mudita-manas?? ??li-sa?rak?ik???m | kar????-?ndhra-vyatikara-va??t karbure g?ti-bhede muhyant?n?? madana-kalu?a? maugdhyam ?sv?dayeth?? *Relish the simplicity, stirred up by love, of the girls who guard the rice. They revel at heart in all sorts of gossip as they sit in the shade of the sugarcane using sprouting shoots as seats, forgetting themselves entirely in the strangely blended songs formed from a mix of the **Kar???ak** and ** ?ndhra** tongues.* One commentary glosses '??rit?n??' and another '?sthitavat?n?m'. Thank you very much, Venetia Ansell From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Fri May 8 07:48:26 2009 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Fri, 08 May 09 09:48:26 +0200 Subject: Question on digital epigraphy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086149.23782.5751021778827306969.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1557 Lines: 53 Dear Colleagues, checking some internet resources for Indian epigraphy, I came across an interesting example of digital hybrid: the item so-called "EPO [sic] GRAPHIA BIRMANICA VOL 4 PART 2 (1973)" http://www.archive.org/details/epographiabirman014758mbp appears to mix 1?) the additional plates to Epigraphia Birmanica IV/1, 1936 ["EPIGRAPHIA BIRMANICA"], the preceding part being available at http://www.archive.org/details/epigraphiabirman014350mbp 2?) An incomplete index (p. 103-171, letters M to V) of places, names and realia referring obviously to inscriptions from Karnataka, under the form: Date (from 1909 to 1920), P. + a number (two digits) I am very interested by this index, where I would like to know to which refers this: "Santima, Island, 1910, P. 28" So thank you in advance for helping me to identify both the source-index and the reference (some volume of the ARMAD?), Christophe Vielle A few other interesting epigraphical resources : -Epigraphia Carnatica IV , 1893 http://www.archive.org/details/epigraphiacarnat04mysouoft -EC V/1, 1902 http://www.archive.org/details/epigraphiacarnat05mysouoft -EC X, 1905 http://www.archive.org/details/p2epigraphiacarn10mysouoft -Annual Report of the Mysore Archaeological Department for the year 1932 (1935) -EC new series III, 1974 http://www.archive.org/details/epigraphiacarnat014759mbp - Epigraphia Indo-Moslemica 1937-38 ["EPOGRAPHIA BIRMANICA VOL 4 PART 2 (1937)"] http://www.archive.org/details/epographiabirman014774mbp -- http://belgianindology.lalibreblogs.be From H.J.H.Tieken at HUM.LEIDENUNIV.NL Fri May 8 10:57:54 2009 From: H.J.H.Tieken at HUM.LEIDENUNIV.NL (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Fri, 08 May 09 12:57:54 +0200 Subject: Unusual word - help needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086154.23782.11853410271761452283.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1139 Lines: 30 It is the genitive plural fem. of the active perfect participle of aa-sthaa-: aatasthivas/aatasthu.s Herman Tieken -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of venetia ansell Sent: vrijdag 8 mei 2009 12:39 To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Unusual word - help needed Can anyone help me with the form of ?tasthu????m from Vedanta Deshika's Hamsasandesham 1.20? The verse and translation are below and I've added the glosses that two commentaries give: ik?u-cch?ye kisalaya-maya? talpam ?tasthu????? sa?l?pais tair mudita-manas?? ??li-sa?rak?ik???m | kar????-?ndhra-vyatikara-va??t karbure g?ti-bhede muhyant?n?? madana-kalu?a? maugdhyam ?sv?dayeth?? *Relish the simplicity, stirred up by love, of the girls who guard the rice. They revel at heart in all sorts of gossip as they sit in the shade of the sugarcane using sprouting shoots as seats, forgetting themselves entirely in the strangely blended songs formed from a mix of the **Kar???ak** and ** ?ndhra** tongues.* One commentary glosses '??rit?n??' and another '?sthitavat?n?m'. Thank you very much, Venetia Ansell From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Fri May 8 10:58:40 2009 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Fri, 08 May 09 12:58:40 +0200 Subject: Unusual word - help needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086157.23782.7157089276986569225.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1182 Lines: 43 Its a perfect participle of aasthaa. See MW s.v. tasthivas: mf(<-thu.sii>)n. pf. p. P. , q.v. An echo of Raghuva.m"sa 4:20: ik.succhaayaani.saadinyas tasya goptur gu.nodayam| aakumaarakathodghaata.m "saaligopyo jagur ya"sa.h|| On 8 May 2009, at 12:38, venetia ansell wrote: > Can anyone help me with the form of ?tasthu????m from Vedanta > Deshika's > Hamsasandesham 1.20? The verse and translation are below and I've > added the > glosses that two commentaries give: > > ik?u-cch?ye kisalaya-maya? talpam ?tasthu????? > > sa?l?pais tair mudita-manas?? ??li-sa?rak?ik???m | > > kar????-?ndhra-vyatikara-va??t karbure g?ti-bhede > muhyant?n?? madana-kalu?a? maugdhyam ?sv?dayeth?? > > *Relish the simplicity, stirred up by love, of the girls who guard > the rice. > They revel at heart in all sorts of gossip as they sit in the shade > of the > sugarcane using sprouting shoots as seats, forgetting themselves > entirely in > the strangely blended songs formed from a mix of the > **Kar???ak** and ** > ?ndhra** tongues.* > > One commentary glosses '??rit?n??' and another > '?sthitavat?n?m'. > > Thank you very much, > > Venetia Ansell From straube at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE Fri May 8 11:01:33 2009 From: straube at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE (Martin Straube) Date: Fri, 08 May 09 13:01:33 +0200 Subject: Unusual word - help needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086159.23782.17705567675146922560.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1228 Lines: 44 It looks like a reduplicated perfect participle (gen. pl. fem.) of ?-sth?, hence it is correctly glossed "?sthitavat?n?m". Martin Straube Zitat von venetia ansell : > Can anyone help me with the form of ?tasthu????m from Vedanta Deshika's > Hamsasandesham 1.20? The verse and translation are below and I've added the > glosses that two commentaries give: > > ik?u-cch?ye kisalaya-maya? talpam ?tasthu????? > > sa?l?pais tair mudita-manas?? ??li-sa?rak?ik???m | > > kar????-?ndhra-vyatikara-va??t karbure g?ti-bhede > muhyant?n?? madana-kalu?a? maugdhyam ?sv?dayeth?? > > *Relish the simplicity, stirred up by love, of the girls who guard the rice. > They revel at heart in all sorts of gossip as they sit in the shade of the > sugarcane using sprouting shoots as seats, forgetting themselves entirely in > the strangely blended songs formed from a mix of the **Kar???ak** and ** > ?ndhra** tongues.* > > One commentary glosses '??rit?n??' and another '?sthitavat?n?m'. > > Thank you very much, > > Venetia Ansell > > --- Dr. des. Martin Straube Fachgebiet Indologie und Tibetologie Philipps-Universitaet Marburg Deutschhausstrasse 12 35032 Marburg (Germany) www.uni-marburg.de/indologie From venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM Fri May 8 10:38:33 2009 From: venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM (venetia ansell) Date: Fri, 08 May 09 16:08:33 +0530 Subject: Unusual word - help needed Message-ID: <161227086151.23782.13025769207159645918.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 815 Lines: 25 Can anyone help me with the form of ?tasthu????m from Vedanta Deshika's Hamsasandesham 1.20? The verse and translation are below and I've added the glosses that two commentaries give: ik?u-cch?ye kisalaya-maya? talpam ?tasthu????? sa?l?pais tair mudita-manas?? ??li-sa?rak?ik???m | kar????-?ndhra-vyatikara-va??t karbure g?ti-bhede muhyant?n?? madana-kalu?a? maugdhyam ?sv?dayeth?? *Relish the simplicity, stirred up by love, of the girls who guard the rice. They revel at heart in all sorts of gossip as they sit in the shade of the sugarcane using sprouting shoots as seats, forgetting themselves entirely in the strangely blended songs formed from a mix of the **Kar???ak** and ** ?ndhra** tongues.* One commentary glosses '??rit?n??' and another '?sthitavat?n?m'. Thank you very much, Venetia Ansell From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Fri May 8 11:56:52 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 08 May 09 17:26:52 +0530 Subject: Unusual word - help needed Message-ID: <161227086164.23782.4033269298420447472.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2111 Lines: 57 Here ?sth? ?should mean ' to mount', talpa 'a raised bed, the Indian bed-stead or paalank'. But plain bed seems to have been?meant 'having seated themselves on a bed formed of twigs under the shade etc' gives better sense. DB --- On Fri, 8/5/09, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: From: Deshpande, Madhav Subject: Re: Unusual word - help needed To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Friday, 8 May, 2009, 4:45 PM Hello Venetia, ?tasthu?? is the feminine form of ?tasthivas, masculine:? ?tasthiv?n, from ?+sth?.? [Perfect Participle, Whitney's Sanskrit Grammar, p. 291.]? The verbal construction will be:? striya? talpam ?ti??hante? "the women resort to ..."? Best, Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of venetia ansell [venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM] Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 6:38 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Unusual word - help needed Can anyone help me with the form of ?tasthu????m from Vedanta Deshika's Hamsasandesham 1.20?? The verse and translation are below and I've added the glosses that two commentaries give: ik?u-cch?ye kisalaya-maya? talpam ?tasthu????? sa?l?pais tair mudita-manas?? ??li-sa?rak?ik???m | kar????-?ndhra-vyatikara-va??t karbure g?ti-bhede muhyant?n?? madana-kalu?a? maugdhyam ?sv?dayeth?? *Relish the simplicity, stirred up by love, of the girls who guard the rice. They revel at heart in all sorts of gossip as they sit in the shade of the sugarcane using sprouting shoots as seats, forgetting themselves entirely in the strangely blended songs formed from a mix of the **Kar???ak** and ** ?ndhra** tongues.* One commentary glosses '??rit?n??' and another '?sthitavat?n?m'. Thank you very much, Venetia Ansell Now surf faster and smarter ! Check out the new Firefox 3 - Yahoo! Edition http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/firefox/?fr=om_email_firefox From cbpicron at GMX.DE Mon May 11 13:42:39 2009 From: cbpicron at GMX.DE (Claudine Bautze-Picron) Date: Mon, 11 May 09 15:42:39 +0200 Subject: Journ=?iso-8859-15?Q?=E9e?= "Monde Indien", Paris, 25th May Message-ID: <161227086167.23782.5895147513401777688.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2100 Lines: 96 Dear Colleagues, In case you are passing through Paris on Monday 25th May, you are most welcome to attend to the annual meeting of the Indologists of the research team ?Mondes Iranien et Indien?. You will find herewith the program and below the address of the day. The program together with the abstracts of the communications will also be visible on the team website in the next days. Claudine Bautze-Picron. C.N.R.S (National Centre for Scientific Research) ? UMR 7528 ?Mondes Iranien et Indien? http://www.iran-inde.cnrs.fr/ 27, rue Paul Bert 94204 Ivry-sur-Seine, France T?l. 33 (0) 1 49 60 40 10 - Fax 33 (0) 1 45 21 94 19 Quatri?me Journ?e ?Monde Indien?, 25 mai 2009 Matin?e 10h15 Philip Huyse (EPHE, Directeur de l?UMR ?Mondes iranien et indien?) Pr?sentation des activit?s de Mondes iranien et indien en 2008 10h30 Phaedra Bouvet (Doctorante, Paris X-Nanterre) Le cas des c?ramiques indiennes et indianisantes du site arch?ologique de Khao Sam Kaeo (Tha?lande p?ninsulaire) - 4?-2? s. av. J.-C. 11h00 Iran Farkondeh (Doctorante, Paris III) Les femmes dans le Kath?sarits?gara 11h 30 Pause caf? 12h00 Ingo Strauch (Freie Universiteit Berlin) The Bajaur Collection of Kharosth? manuscripts: Studies in Buddhist G?ndh?r? literature 12h30 Marie-Luce Barazer-Billoret (Ma?tre de conf?rences, Paris III) Le shiva?sme ?gamique : travaux r?cents et projets 13h00-14h30 D?jeuner libre Apr?s-midi 14h30 J?r?me Petit (Biblioth?que nationale de France, Doctorant, Paris III) Les rouages du commerce dans l?Inde du 17?me si?cle ? travers les m?moires d?un marchand jaina 15h00 Emmanuel Francis (Doctorant, Universit? Catholique de Louvain, Louvain-la-Neuve) Symboles de richesse aux portes de sanctuaires du pays tamoul 15h30 Anne Casile (Doctorante, Paris III) Lectures du paysage arch?ologique de Badoh-Pathari en Inde centrale (5e-13e si?cle) 16 h Collation From xadxura at GMAIL.COM Wed May 13 19:07:53 2009 From: xadxura at GMAIL.COM (Andrew Glass) Date: Wed, 13 May 09 12:07:53 -0700 Subject: Devanagari Unicode fonts for the Mac? In-Reply-To: <6261D325-D9AF-45E0-8B65-F23620D8EAF8@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227086174.23782.1841047512278703023.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 53 Lines: 6 This situation has not improved with CS4. Andrew From ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU Wed May 13 16:40:09 2009 From: ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Paul G. Hackett) Date: Wed, 13 May 09 12:40:09 -0400 Subject: Devanagari Unicode fonts for the Mac? Message-ID: <161227086169.23782.12444951921716780460.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 341 Lines: 15 Greetings, I am attempting to typeset some Unicode Devanagari text in Adobe InDesign (CS3) on the Mac (OS X.5.6) but cannot seem to locate a Unicode font that will function correctly (i.e. form ligatures) in InDesign. Does anyone know of any such font that will do so (free or otherwise)? Thanks, Paul Hackett Columbia University From adheesh at OCF.BERKELEY.EDU Thu May 14 00:52:04 2009 From: adheesh at OCF.BERKELEY.EDU (Adheesh Sathaye) Date: Wed, 13 May 09 17:52:04 -0700 Subject: Devanagari Unicode fonts for the Mac? In-Reply-To: <6261D325-D9AF-45E0-8B65-F23620D8EAF8@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227086181.23782.8769190268769579151.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3175 Lines: 80 I wonder if anyone has had any success with the newly released "World Ready Composer" plugin for CS4 (ME edition) on the Mac? Info about it is available here: http://www.thomasphinney.com/tag/world-ready-composer/ , which I discovered from an article on the reliable "Multilingual Mac" blog: http://m10lmac.blogspot.com/2009/02/adobe-app-language-improvements.html I would be interested to know if anyone has had the opportunity to try out what might be a positive new development in this front? Also, has anyone else noticed that Devanagari rendering appears to work in Powerpoint 2008 (for Mac) but not the rest of the Office 2008 suite? Perhaps also a positive step from Microsoft? All best wishes, Adheesh ---- Adheesh Sathaye Department of Asian Studies University of British Columbia On May 13, 2009, at 10:56 AM, alessandro graheli wrote: > Dear Paul, > > it seems an impossible task. InDesign, at least upto CS3, is known > for not providing support for Indic scripts. I?ve read there is some > plugin to use OpenType Devanagari fonts on Windows, but not for Mac. > On OSX there is an additional, mighty problem with Unicode > Devanagari: the otherwise excellent built-in engine which manages > ligatures and vowel-signs of Indic scripts works only with AAT > (Apple Advanced Typography) fonts, such as Devanagari Monotype which > comes with OSX. The Windows universe mostly uses OpenType Devanagari > fonts. To put it simply, unlike with Latin and other Unicode ranges, > when one tries to convert files from Windows to Mac or viceversa, he > will get a mess with ligatures and vowel-signs, because of the > different engines and because of the different intrinsic features of > the fonts. > > Specifically, Truetype fonts which run on Mac OSX, Devanagari MT > included, manage variants such as ligatures and old type numbers > through AAT (Advanced Apple Typography) tables, which need to be > read and applied by the software that uses the font, both in source > and output. InDesign will ignore some of these features and will > handle only the basic Unicode characters. Unicode charts, in fact, > prescribe only the encoding for the basic alphabetic characters, > while variations of glyphs such as ligatures are handled by such > tables which lay deep in the font structure. A problem with AAT > tables is that there is hardly any documentation available and to > access them, not to speak of modifying them, so improving such fonts > seems rather problematic. Conversely native OSX software such as > TextEdit, for instance, handles all the AAT tables and thus renders > ligatures properly. > > Hope it helps, > > Alessandro Graheli > Rome, Italy > > Il giorno 13/mag/09, alle ore 18:40, Paul G. Hackett ha scritto: > > Greetings, > > I am attempting to typeset some Unicode Devanagari text in Adobe > InDesign (CS3) on the Mac (OS X.5.6) but cannot seem to locate a > Unicode font that will function correctly (i.e. form ligatures) in > InDesign. Does anyone know of any such font that will do so (free > or otherwise)? > > Thanks, > > Paul Hackett > Columbia University > From a.graheli at GMAIL.COM Wed May 13 17:56:57 2009 From: a.graheli at GMAIL.COM (alessandro graheli) Date: Wed, 13 May 09 19:56:57 +0200 Subject: Devanagari Unicode fonts for the Mac? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086171.23782.12810836169567480284.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2211 Lines: 52 Dear Paul, it seems an impossible task. InDesign, at least upto CS3, is known for not providing support for Indic scripts. I?ve read there is some plugin to use OpenType Devanagari fonts on Windows, but not for Mac. On OSX there is an additional, mighty problem with Unicode Devanagari: the otherwise excellent built-in engine which manages ligatures and vowel-signs of Indic scripts works only with AAT (Apple Advanced Typography) fonts, such as Devanagari Monotype which comes with OSX. The Windows universe mostly uses OpenType Devanagari fonts. To put it simply, unlike with Latin and other Unicode ranges, when one tries to convert files from Windows to Mac or viceversa, he will get a mess with ligatures and vowel-signs, because of the different engines and because of the different intrinsic features of the fonts. Specifically, Truetype fonts which run on Mac OSX, Devanagari MT included, manage variants such as ligatures and old type numbers through AAT (Advanced Apple Typography) tables, which need to be read and applied by the software that uses the font, both in source and output. InDesign will ignore some of these features and will handle only the basic Unicode characters. Unicode charts, in fact, prescribe only the encoding for the basic alphabetic characters, while variations of glyphs such as ligatures are handled by such tables which lay deep in the font structure. A problem with AAT tables is that there is hardly any documentation available and to access them, not to speak of modifying them, so improving such fonts seems rather problematic. Conversely native OSX software such as TextEdit, for instance, handles all the AAT tables and thus renders ligatures properly. Hope it helps, Alessandro Graheli Rome, Italy Il giorno 13/mag/09, alle ore 18:40, Paul G. Hackett ha scritto: Greetings, I am attempting to typeset some Unicode Devanagari text in Adobe InDesign (CS3) on the Mac (OS X.5.6) but cannot seem to locate a Unicode font that will function correctly (i.e. form ligatures) in InDesign. Does anyone know of any such font that will do so (free or otherwise)? Thanks, Paul Hackett Columbia University From james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM Wed May 13 23:25:33 2009 From: james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM (James Hartzell) Date: Thu, 14 May 09 01:25:33 +0200 Subject: Devanagari Unicode fonts for the Mac? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086178.23782.14497103351954817812.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1126 Lines: 41 Madhav Deshpande had guided me through using the Devanagari QWERTY keyboard under the International input option on the Mac (see System Preferences). Then selecting the Arial Unicode MS. This works perfectly well in NeoOffice, with all the ligatures required by typing an "f" after the relevant letter, then the next letter. Aspirated letters come from shift, plus the letter, initial vowels from alt-letter, etc. The alt-letter combo provides the retroflexes as well. ? from z ? from x ??? from alt s ? from shift s ? from shift n ? from alt n ? from . ? from alt ' for instance ???????: ???????: etc. not sure whether this will work in your Adobe program. ?????: James Hartzell On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Paul G. Hackett wrote: > Greetings, > > I am attempting to typeset some Unicode Devanagari text in Adobe InDesign > (CS3) on the Mac (OS X.5.6) but cannot seem to locate a Unicode font that > will function correctly (i.e. form ligatures) in InDesign. Does anyone know > of any such font that will do so (free or otherwise)? > > Thanks, > > Paul Hackett > Columbia University > From sellmers at GMX.DE Thu May 14 07:09:04 2009 From: sellmers at GMX.DE (Sven Sellmer) Date: Thu, 14 May 09 09:09:04 +0200 Subject: Devanagari Unicode fonts for the Mac? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086184.23782.9279333004515059530.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1785 Lines: 69 Unfortunately, not all ligatures seem to work in this way: for example -Gg- (as in gaGgA) appears (both in NeoOffice and in Mail) as G+vir?ma +g (?????). This ligature I, for one, can only generate in TextEdit by enabling "All ligatures". Or is there any way to get around this problem? Best wishes, Sven Sellmer ************************************ Dr. Sven Sellmer Adam Mickiewicz University Institute of Oriental Studies South Asia Unit ul. 28 czerwca 1956 nr 198 61-485 Pozna? POLAND sven at amu.edu.pl Am 14.05.2009 um 01:25 schrieb James Hartzell: > Madhav Deshpande had guided me through using the Devanagari QWERTY > keyboard > under the International input option on the Mac (see System > Preferences). > Then selecting the Arial Unicode MS. This works perfectly well in > NeoOffice, with all the ligatures required by typing an "f" after the > relevant letter, then the next letter. Aspirated letters come from > shift, > plus the letter, initial vowels from alt-letter, etc. The alt- > letter combo > provides the retroflexes as well. > ? from z > ? from x > ??? from alt s > ? from shift s > ? from shift n > ? from alt n > ? from . > ? from alt ' > > for instance > ???????: > ???????: etc. > not sure whether this will work in your Adobe program. > > ?????: > James Hartzell > > On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Paul G. Hackett > wrote: > >> Greetings, >> >> I am attempting to typeset some Unicode Devanagari text in Adobe >> InDesign >> (CS3) on the Mac (OS X.5.6) but cannot seem to locate a Unicode >> font that >> will function correctly (i.e. form ligatures) in InDesign. Does >> anyone know >> of any such font that will do so (free or otherwise)? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Paul Hackett >> Columbia University >> From james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM Thu May 14 09:36:37 2009 From: james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM (James Hartzell) Date: Thu, 14 May 09 11:36:37 +0200 Subject: Devanagari Unicode fonts for the Mac? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086186.23782.2587380374670903555.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2027 Lines: 74 Dear Sven I see that you're correct for ?????; I don't know how to get around this particular problem. Cheers James On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:09 AM, Sven Sellmer wrote: > Unfortunately, not all ligatures seem to work in this way: for example -Gg- > (as in gaGgA) appears (both in NeoOffice and in Mail) as G+vir?ma+g (?????). > This ligature I, for one, can only generate in TextEdit by enabling "All > ligatures". Or is there any way to get around this problem? > Best wishes, > Sven Sellmer > > ************************************ > Dr. Sven Sellmer > Adam Mickiewicz University > Institute of Oriental Studies > South Asia Unit > ul. 28 czerwca 1956 nr 198 > 61-485 Pozna? > POLAND > sven at amu.edu.pl > > Am 14.05.2009 um 01:25 schrieb James Hartzell: > > > Madhav Deshpande had guided me through using the Devanagari QWERTY >> keyboard >> under the International input option on the Mac (see System Preferences). >> Then selecting the Arial Unicode MS. This works perfectly well in >> NeoOffice, with all the ligatures required by typing an "f" after the >> relevant letter, then the next letter. Aspirated letters come from shift, >> plus the letter, initial vowels from alt-letter, etc. The alt-letter >> combo >> provides the retroflexes as well. >> ? from z >> ? from x >> ??? from alt s >> ? from shift s >> ? from shift n >> ? from alt n >> ? from . >> ? from alt ' >> >> for instance >> ???????: >> ???????: etc. >> not sure whether this will work in your Adobe program. >> >> ?????: >> James Hartzell >> >> On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Paul G. Hackett > >wrote: >> >> Greetings, >>> >>> I am attempting to typeset some Unicode Devanagari text in Adobe InDesign >>> (CS3) on the Mac (OS X.5.6) but cannot seem to locate a Unicode font that >>> will function correctly (i.e. form ligatures) in InDesign. Does anyone >>> know >>> of any such font that will do so (free or otherwise)? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Paul Hackett >>> Columbia University >>> >>> From d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK Thu May 14 12:27:43 2009 From: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 14 May 09 13:27:43 +0100 Subject: Devanagari Unicode fonts for the Mac? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086190.23782.14182223252242604554.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1510 Lines: 54 How things have moved on! I routinely read email with Alpine (successor to Pine), a character-based email client. Yet I see all the N?gar? below perfectly well (and romanized Sa?sk?ta goes without saying). What a relief after all those years of saMskRta etc. Dominik On Thu, 14 May 2009, James Hartzell wrote: > Madhav Deshpande had guided me through using the Devanagari QWERTY keyboard > under the International input option on the Mac (see System Preferences). > Then selecting the Arial Unicode MS. This works perfectly well in > NeoOffice, with all the ligatures required by typing an "f" after the > relevant letter, then the next letter. Aspirated letters come from shift, > plus the letter, initial vowels from alt-letter, etc. The alt-letter combo > provides the retroflexes as well. > ? from z > ? from x > ??? from alt s > ? from shift s > ? from shift n > ? from alt n > ? from . > ? from alt ' > > for instance > ???????: > ???????: etc. > not sure whether this will work in your Adobe program. > > ?????: > James Hartzell > > On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Paul G. Hackett wrote: > >> Greetings, >> >> I am attempting to typeset some Unicode Devanagari text in Adobe InDesign >> (CS3) on the Mac (OS X.5.6) but cannot seem to locate a Unicode font that >> will function correctly (i.e. form ligatures) in InDesign. Does anyone know >> of any such font that will do so (free or otherwise)? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Paul Hackett >> Columbia University >> > From d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK Thu May 14 14:45:41 2009 From: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 14 May 09 15:45:41 +0100 Subject: Devanagari Unicode fonts for the Mac? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086194.23782.4409053449826642508.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 636 Lines: 25 It seems that Scribus, a free competitor for InDesign (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scribus), doesn't do Indic fonts (i.e., "complex script rendering") either yet (http://wiki.scribus.net/index.php/Image:Rendering1.png). DW On Wed, 13 May 2009, Paul G. Hackett wrote: > Greetings, > > I am attempting to typeset some Unicode Devanagari text in Adobe InDesign > (CS3) on the Mac (OS X.5.6) but cannot seem to locate a Unicode font that > will function correctly (i.e. form ligatures) in InDesign. Does anyone know > of any such font that will do so (free or otherwise)? > > Thanks, > > Paul Hackett > Columbia University > From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Fri May 15 09:18:10 2009 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Fri, 15 May 09 11:18:10 +0200 Subject: Ancient Aramaic Documents from Bactria : published or not ? Message-ID: <161227086197.23782.7425923131288592099.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3731 Lines: 108 Dear Colleagues Is this long-waited book now published and available or still not ? Christophe Vielle Title: Ancient Aramaic Documents From Bactria: 4th Century B.c.e. Author: Joseph Naveh, Shaul Shaked ISBN 1874780749 ISBN-13 9781874780748 Binding: Hardcover Publisher: Khalili Collections Number of Pages: 224 Language: English First publication of a group of thirty documents on leather in Imperial Aramaic, dating to the fourth century B.C.E. and reflecting the practice of the Achaemenian administration in Bactria and Sogdiana. Eighteen inscribed wooden sticks, for use as tallies, dated to the third year of King Darius Ill, are also included. They are considered to be the second most important discovery of its type known. Two of the leather documents relate to the fall of the Persian Empire: one mentions Bessus, the usurper of the Persian throne, travelling to Warnu (Greek Aornos); the other is a long list of supplies in the year 7 of King Alexander. In addition to their valuable historical contents, the documents enrich our knowledge of Aramaic and its lexicon. The documents are given in Aramaic with translation, introduction, commentary and glossary. The volume is lavishly illustrated. http://www.khalili.org/research-ic-aramaic.html ["2005"] http://www.flipkart.com/ancient-aramaic-documents-bactria-joseph/1874780749-00x3fu4q4c ["Publishing Date: 01-2008"] http://www.infibeam.com/Books/info/Joseph-Naveh/Ancient-Aramaic-Documents-from-Bactria-4th-Century/1874780749.html http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ancient-Aramaic-Documents-Bactria-Collection/dp/1874780749 ["This title has not yet been released. You may pre-order it now and we will deliver it to you when it arrives - Publisher: Khalili Collections (18 Dec 2009)"] >>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 18:55:03 +0200 >>From: Steve Farmer >>Subject: [Indo-Eurasia] Update: Ancient Aramaic Documents from Bactria >> >> >>Dear List, >> >>Back in 2005 we discussed on the List the recent finds of >>Achaemenid-era Aramaic texts from Bactria -- really critical to >>understanding the spread of writing to Central Asia and, presumably, to >>NW India as well. >> >>The manuscripts in the collection were to be edited by Joseph Naveh and >>Shaul Shaked, and were announced in a tantalizing pr?cis by Shaked that >>came out in 2004: >> Shaul Shaked, Le satrape de Bactriane et son gouverneur: Documents aram?ens du IVe s. avant notre ?re provenant de Bactriane. Conf?rences donn?es au Coll?ge de France 14 et 21 mai 2003 (Persika, 4), Paris: De Boccard, 2004. 62 pp. ISBN 2 7018 0170 2. >> >> >>Some description of this little booklet (only 62 pages long) at [updated]: >> >>http://abstractairanica.revues.org/document5779.html >> https://eprints.soas.ac.uk/3201/ >>I wrote to Shaul Shaked in early 2005 and asked when the edition would >>come out. He wrote that it would be out that Fall, and I've tried to >>buy it periodically ever since. This morning, however, I ran into >>the following notice that says that it is not planned now to be >>published until 2008: >> >>http://tinyurl.com/y8ap3l [lost] >> >>Michael and I have both read Shaked's pr?cis, which includes quotations >>from the texts that have a number of oddities in them. The texts also >>contain direct references to Alexander the Great and Bessus, the >>supposed murderer of Darius III, which makes one a bit curious.... >> >>Anyway, I thought I'd give an update on the text. If anyone is in >>contact with Shaul Shaked at present and has more up-to-date >>information on the release of the book, please let us know! >> >>Steve >> > >-- > > >http://belgianindology.lalibreblogs.be -- http://belgianindology.lalibreblogs.be From fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM Fri May 15 17:01:43 2009 From: fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM (Benjamin Fleming) Date: Fri, 15 May 09 12:01:43 -0500 Subject: Ancient Aramaic Documents from Bactria : published or not ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086204.23782.1728132239763027980.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2168 Lines: 60 Dear Christophe Vielle, As I have myself recently search for this book unsuccessfully, my guess is that it has not yet come out. I have, however, cross-posted your query to the Indo-Eurasian list of which prof. Shaked is a member. I will let the list here know how he responds. Best Wishes, Benjamin -- Benjamin Fleming Mellon Post-doctoral Fellow, Dept. of Religious Studies University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street; Claudia Cohen Hall, #234 Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A. Telephone - 215-746-7792 > Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 11:18:10 +0200 > From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE > Subject: Ancient Aramaic Documents from Bactria : published or not ? > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Dear Colleagues > > Is this long-waited book now published and available or still not ? > > Christophe Vielle > > Title: Ancient Aramaic Documents From Bactria: 4th Century B.c.e. > Author: Joseph Naveh, Shaul Shaked > ISBN 1874780749 > ISBN-13 9781874780748 > Binding: Hardcover > Publisher: Khalili Collections > Number of Pages: 224 > Language: English > > First publication of a group of thirty documents > on leather in Imperial Aramaic, dating to the > fourth century B.C.E. and reflecting the practice > of the Achaemenian administration in Bactria and > Sogdiana. Eighteen inscribed wooden sticks, for > use as tallies, dated to the third year of King > Darius Ill, are also included. They are > considered to be the second most important > discovery of its type known. > Two of the leather documents relate to the fall > of the Persian Empire: one mentions Bessus, the > usurper of the Persian throne, travelling to > Warnu (Greek Aornos); the other is a long list of > supplies in the year 7 of King Alexander. In > addition to their valuable historical contents, > the documents enrich our knowledge of Aramaic and > its lexicon. The documents are given in Aramaic > with translation, introduction, commentary and > glossary. The volume is lavishly illustrated. _________________________________________________________________ Create a cool, new character for your Windows Live? Messenger. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9656621 From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Fri May 15 10:42:00 2009 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Fri, 15 May 09 12:42:00 +0200 Subject: Intensive Course in Vedic Grammar and Syntax Message-ID: <161227086201.23782.11186845999072626272.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1353 Lines: 34 Indian Summer in Halle ? Intensive Course in Vedic Grammar and Syntax Dear Colleagues, We are pleased to announce that an Intensive Course in Vedic Grammar and Syntax will be held at the Indology Department of Martin Luther University Halle (Saale) from September 14th to 25th, 2009. The course, comprising an introduction into Vedic grammar and syntax as well as the reading of Vedic hymns and prose, will be taught by Werner Knobl (Kyoto). The medium of teaching will be German. All those interested in the course are most welcome and kindly asked to register by July 1st. Details are available on our website: http://www.indologie.uni-halle.de/veda.htm See also http:// www.indologie.uni-halle.de Please do pass on this message to anyone possibly interested. Yours sincerely, Annette Schmiedchen / Katrin Einicke annette.schmiedchen at indologie.uni-halle.de katrin.einicke at indologie.uni-halle.de ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Fri May 15 17:35:46 2009 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Fri, 15 May 09 13:35:46 -0400 Subject: Syntax of Dative Message-ID: <161227086208.23782.15088289086997852201.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 528 Lines: 8 Dear Colleagues I am looking for some scholarly discussion on the use of datives with verbs like vidmahe and dh?mahi found in the late G?yatr?s as found in texts like the Taittir?iya Ara?yaka, e.g. ?????????? ??????? ???????? ????? / ????? ?????? ?????????? // The use of dative in these late G?yatr?s contrasts with the accusative in the old G?yatr? : ??? ?????????????? ????? ?????? ?????. I am looking for any scholarly discussion of this shift (?). Didn't see anything in Speyer/Speijer. Best, Madhav M. Deshpande From wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK Fri May 15 20:28:27 2009 From: wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK (Whitney Cox) Date: Fri, 15 May 09 21:28:27 +0100 Subject: Cambridge 22-23 May: Bilingual Discourse and Cross-Cultural Fertilisation: Tamil and Sanskrit in Mediaeval India Message-ID: <161227086211.23782.14402960422034528817.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2832 Lines: 118 Dear colleagues, On behalf of Vincenzo Vergiani and myself, I'd like to cordially invite any and all of you who maybe in SE England next week to attend the workshop we are jointly convening, Bilingual Discourse and Cross-Cultural Fertilisation: Tamil and Sanskrit in Mediaeval India. The workshop website can be found at the following URL, and I attach a schedule of presentations below, http://www.ames.cam.ac.uk/news_events/sanskrit-tamil-mediaeval-india.htm All the best, Whitney Cox Friday 22 May: 9:00-9:30 Coffee, welcoming and opening remarks Session 1 (Dominic GOODALL, chair) 9:30-10:00 Eva WILDEN ?Ten Stages of Love (da?a k?m?vasth??) and Eight Types of Marriage (a??aviv?ha) in the Tolk?ppiyam? 10:00-10:30 Whitney COX ?Meypp??u and na?avil nilai in I?amp?ra?ar: from source-criticism to intellectual history? 10:30-11:00 Hermann TIEKEN ?Early Tamil poetics between N??ya??stra and R?gam?l?? 11:00-11:45 Discussion Lunch (12:00-1:30) Session 2 (Vincenzo VERGIANI, chair) 1:30-2:00 Takanobu TAKAHASHI ?Is clearing or plowing equal to killing? Tamil culture and the spread of Jainism in Tamilnadu? 2:00-2:30 K. Nachimuthu ?Negotiating Tamil-Sanskrit Contacts: Engagements by Tamil Grammarians? 2:30-3:00 Charlotte SCHMID (read by Dominic GOODALL) ?The contribution of Tamil literature to K???a?s figure in Sanskrit texts: the case of the ka??u in Cilappatik?ram 17? 3:00-3:30 Discussion Coffee (3:30-4:00) Session 3 (Daud ALI, chair) 4:00-4:30 Timothy LUBIN ?Legal Diglossia in Medieval Tamilnadu? 4:30-5:00 Emmanuel FRANCIS ?The Praise of the King in Tamil and Sanskrit during the Pallava Period? 5:00-5:30 Leslie ORR ?Words for Worship: Tamil and Sanskrit in Medieval Temple Inscriptions? 5:30-6:15 Discussion Saturday 23 May Coffee (9:00-9:30 ) Session 4 (Eivind KAHRS, chair) 9:30-10:00 Vincenzo VERGIANI ?The adoption of Bhart?hari?s classification of karman in C???varaiyar?s commentary on the Tolk?ppiyam? 10:00-10:30 Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD ?The ?a? pratyaya in V?rac??iyam and Y?pparu?kalavirutti and their sources: a tentative chronology? 10:30-11:00 V. S. RAJAM ?Mapping and Integrating Traditions Through Poetry and Grammar? 11:00-11:45 Discussion Lunch (12:00-1:30) Session 5 (Whitney COX, chair) 1:30-2:00 David SHULMAN ?A (Sanskrit?) Theory of the Imagination from Sixteenth-century Senji? 2:00-2:30 Rich FREEMAN ?Caught in Translation: Kerala Ma?iprav?lam, from Tamil through Sanskrit? 2:30-3:00 Discussion Coffee (3:00-3:30) Roundtable (David WASHBROOK, chair, 3:30-6:00) B. D. CHATTOPADHYAYA A. R. VENKATACHALAPATHY Eivind KAHRS Dominic GOODALL 6:00 Concluding remarks -- Dr. Whitney Cox Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, School of Oriental and African Studies Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square London WC1H 0XG From jemhouben at GMAIL.COM Fri May 15 23:49:31 2009 From: jemhouben at GMAIL.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Sat, 16 May 09 01:49:31 +0200 Subject: Syntax of Dative In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D70466E1BB42@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227086214.23782.3040427130044206811.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1910 Lines: 47 Dear Madhav, Whether shift or variation, assuming you have seen Delbr?ck Altindische Syntax, Speyer Sanskrit Syntax and Speyer Vedic Syntax, I think that the following two publications might be useful (even though they focus on the Vedic dative they refer to cases beyond Vedic as well): E.W. Hopkins The Vedic Dative Reconsidered in Transactions and Proc. of the Am. Phil. Ass. vol. 37 (1937): 87-120; J. Gonda The Unity of the Vedic Dative (with ref. to discussions by Debrunner, Whitney, Renou etc.) repr. in Selected Studies vol. on Indo-European Linguistics, 141ff. Also useful may be Oberlies' Grammar of Epic Sanskrit p. 331f and Brockington The Sanskrit Epics p. 87f. The main shift may have been not so much in the use of the dative but in the interpretation of dhiimahi as form of dhii (cf. Whitney's misplaced judgment in his Roots ... p. 83 which nevertheless captures the shift involved: "The form dhiimahi belongs here [under dhii/diidhii] only as thus used later, with a false apprehension of its proper meaning.") Jan On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 7:35 PM, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: > Dear Colleagues > > I am looking for some scholarly discussion on the use of datives with verbs > like vidmahe and dh?mahi found in the late G?yatr?s as found in texts like > the Taittir?iya Ara?yaka, e.g. ?????????? ??????? ???????? ????? / ????? > ?????? ?????????? // The use of dative in these late G?yatr?s contrasts > with the accusative in the old G?yatr? : ??? ?????????????? ????? ?????? > ?????. I am looking for any scholarly discussion of this shift (?). Didn't > see anything in Speyer/Speijer. Best, > > Madhav M. Deshpande > -- Prof. Dr. Jan E.M. Houben, Directeur d Etudes ? Sources et Histoire de la Tradition Sanskrite ? Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, SHP, A la Sorbonne,45-47, rue des Ecoles, 75005 Paris -- France. JEMHouben at gmail.com www.jyotistoma.nl From slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU Sat May 16 10:56:27 2009 From: slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU (Steven Lindquist) Date: Sat, 16 May 09 05:56:27 -0500 Subject: amrita In-Reply-To: <000001c9d60a$9cabc690$d60353b0$@nl> Message-ID: <161227086224.23782.834460480673927586.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 856 Lines: 33 Dear Victor, On "immortality," see Olivelle's "Am?t?: Women and Indian Technologies of Immortality," Journal of Indian Philosophy. 25: 427? 49, 1997. Free download at: http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/olivelle/articles.htm See esp. Thieme's "Ambrosia" (cited within). My best, Steven On May 16, 2009, at 4:42 AM, victor van bijlert wrote: > Dear friends, > > I remember vaguely to have learned that in Vedic Sanskrit the word > amrita > does not mean immortality but rather something like ' long life'. > Can anyone > provide me with some references to articles on this word? I am also > looking > for parallels in other Vedic texts of the so-called Purusha-sukta > (Rig Veda > 10.90).Or perhaps adaptations of this hymn in later Sanskrit > literature: > Epics, Puranas. > > With many greetings and many thanks > > Victor van Bijlert From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Sat May 16 11:26:52 2009 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (George Thompson) Date: Sat, 16 May 09 07:26:52 -0400 Subject: amrita In-Reply-To: <6E8EE938-B078-43F9-AA1A-A67DF300089E@mail.smu.edu> Message-ID: <161227086232.23782.7713834755595811398.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1495 Lines: 54 Dear List, The Thieme article is found in his *Studien zur indogermanischen Wortkunde und Religionsgeschichte* [Berichte ueber die Verhandlkungen der Saechsischen Akad. d. Wissenschaften zu Leipzig. Phil.-Hist. Klasse, Band 98, Heft 5] 1952. It is reprinted in the Weg d. Forschung series Band CLXIX 1970 [Wissenschaftliche Buchgesellschaft]. The article does not deny that amrta can mean 'immortal.' It argues that it can also mean 'having, giving life' ['lebendig, Lebenskraft spendend'], citing many Vedic passages. I hope this helps. George Thompson Steven Lindquist wrote: > Dear Victor, > > On "immortality," see Olivelle's "Am?t?: Women and Indian > Technologies of Immortality," Journal of Indian Philosophy. 25: 427? > 49, 1997. Free download at: > http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/olivelle/articles.htm See esp. > Thieme's "Ambrosia" (cited within). > > My best, > > Steven > > On May 16, 2009, at 4:42 AM, victor van bijlert wrote: > >> Dear friends, >> >> I remember vaguely to have learned that in Vedic Sanskrit the word >> amrita >> does not mean immortality but rather something like ' long life'. >> Can anyone >> provide me with some references to articles on this word? I am also >> looking >> for parallels in other Vedic texts of the so-called Purusha-sukta >> (Rig Veda >> 10.90).Or perhaps adaptations of this hymn in later Sanskrit >> literature: >> Epics, Puranas. >> >> With many greetings and many thanks >> >> Victor van Bijlert > > > From victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL Sat May 16 09:42:22 2009 From: victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL (victor van bijlert) Date: Sat, 16 May 09 11:42:22 +0200 Subject: amrita Message-ID: <161227086217.23782.1316946837948814433.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 467 Lines: 15 Dear friends, I remember vaguely to have learned that in Vedic Sanskrit the word amrita does not mean immortality but rather something like ' long life'. Can anyone provide me with some references to articles on this word? I am also looking for parallels in other Vedic texts of the so-called Purusha-sukta (Rig Veda 10.90).Or perhaps adaptations of this hymn in later Sanskrit literature: Epics, Puranas. With many greetings and many thanks Victor van Bijlert From j.jurewicz at UW.EDU.PL Sat May 16 11:20:38 2009 From: j.jurewicz at UW.EDU.PL (Joanna Jurewicz) Date: Sat, 16 May 09 13:20:38 +0200 Subject: amrita In-Reply-To: <000001c9d60a$9cabc690$d60353b0$@nl> Message-ID: <161227086229.23782.3664651629139327999.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 901 Lines: 32 Two Atharvavedic hymns, 10.2 and 11.8 elaborate the homology between the human body and the cosmos (see e.g. F. Edgerton, The Beginnings of Indian Philosophy, London, George Allen & Unwin Ltd, 1965, pp. 88, 107). Best Joanna Jurewicz victor van bijlert pisze: > Dear friends, > > I remember vaguely to have learned that in Vedic Sanskrit the word amrita > does not mean immortality but rather something like ' long life'. Can anyone > provide me with some references to articles on this word? I am also looking > for parallels in other Vedic texts of the so-called Purusha-sukta (Rig Veda > 10.90).Or perhaps adaptations of this hymn in later Sanskrit literature: > Epics, Puranas. > > With many greetings and many thanks > > Victor van Bijlert > -- Joanna Jurewicz, dr hab. Warsaw University Professor Faculty of Oriental Studies ul. Krakowskie Przedmiescie 26/28 00-927 Warszawa Poland From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Sat May 16 18:49:49 2009 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (George Thompson) Date: Sat, 16 May 09 14:49:49 -0400 Subject: Syntax of Dative In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D70466E1BB42@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227086236.23782.8744721052657717908.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1883 Lines: 39 Dear Madhav, My first impulse was to see the influence of the frequent collocation of namas + god-name in the dative. I see now that Delbrueck discusses namas, as well as other formulas of respect or invocation, such as svaahaa, svadhaa, vaSaT [p. 145 "Dativ bei Substantiven"] (sorry for using the now obsolete Harvard-Kyoto here, but for me the trouble to get the correct diacritics into an email is still too great). dhaa- in the sense 'to offer, lend' frequently takes the dative, of course. As for dhiimahi, the 'later tradition' which takes it from dhii- instead of dhaa- is I think triggered by the RV Gayatri itself, since dhiimahi is immediately followed by dhiyas there. I take this to be a pun in the mind of the Rsi, rather than an etymology. When the Gayatri is quoted in the TS 1.5.3, Keith prefers to translate dhiimahi as "we meditate" ['in the later priestly sense']. If he is right in doing so, then this quotation may indicate that the etymological sense of dhiimahi from dhaa- may already be lost. As for the dative with other verbs, vid- is cited by Delbrueck (umlauts are also too time-consuming) as taking a dative when it has a sense 'to provide for' [thus semantically close to 'give']. I hope this helps, and I also would be interested to hear from others. George Deshpande, Madhav wrote: >Dear Colleagues > >I am looking for some scholarly discussion on the use of datives with verbs like vidmahe and dh?mahi found in the late G?yatr?s as found in texts like the Taittir?iya Ara?yaka, e.g. ?????????? ??????? ???????? ????? / ????? ?????? ?????????? // The use of dative in these late G?yatr?s contrasts with the accusative in the old G?yatr? : ??? ?????????????? ????? ?????? ?????. I am looking for any scholarly discussion of this shift (?). Didn't see anything in Speyer/Speijer. Best, > >Madhav M. Deshpande > > From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Sat May 16 10:22:03 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sat, 16 May 09 15:52:03 +0530 Subject: amrita Message-ID: <161227086221.23782.9348960077591963780.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1335 Lines: 32 Dear Professor Bijlert, It will take time to search so that,in a hurry,I?can give just a hint that you may yourself check. In the hymns to the fathers, AV?.18 (AVP.18.56-82)it is prayed that the departed one is placed in am.rtatva. Since long life is absurd here the intended meaning seems to be 'immortality'. The text of the Asiatic Society?AVP version of the hymns to the fathers has been printed but at present is in fascicules. It will come out in no time when I furnish them with an Introduction. I am in it. Best DB --- On Sat, 16/5/09, victor van bijlert wrote: From: victor van bijlert Subject: amrita To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Saturday, 16 May, 2009, 3:12 PM Dear friends, I remember vaguely to have learned that in Vedic Sanskrit the word amrita does not mean immortality but rather something like ' long life'. Can anyone provide me with some references to articles on this word? I am also looking for parallels in other Vedic texts of the so-called Purusha-sukta (Rig Veda 10.90).Or perhaps adaptations of this hymn in later Sanskrit literature: Epics, Puranas. With many greetings and many thanks Victor van Bijlert Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with Yahoo! India Travel http://in.travel.yahoo.com/ From kiparsky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU Sun May 17 14:28:10 2009 From: kiparsky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU (Paul Kiparsky) Date: Sun, 17 May 09 07:28:10 -0700 Subject: Sardulavikridita metrics In-Reply-To: <1528222A-4382-420F-822D-00509A2B1A32@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227086249.23782.1882437310720919043.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1297 Lines: 43 Ictus on syllables 3, 6, 8, 12, 14, 17, 19 --- you can hear a brief example of the traditional way it is recited at http:// pantheon.yale.edu/~asd49/sound/ For the theory, see Ashwini Deo, The metrical organization of classical Sanskrit verse, Journal of Linguistics 43.63-114 (2007). This is really essential reading for anyone interested in Sanskrit metrics. On Deo's analysis, ??rd?lavikr??ita is one of the rhythmically most complex and interesting meters (p. 109). Like some other popular meters, such as Mand?kr?nt?, it has seven feet that shift from tetramoraic to pentamoraic at the caesura, with the final foot catalectic, in addition (unlike Mand?kr?nt?) also anacrusis in the first foot. Paul Kiparsky On May 17, 2009, at 4:10 AM, Michael Slouber wrote: > Dear Indology list members, > > Is there more to know about the ??rd?lavikr??ita meter than > ma-sa-ja-sa-ta-ta-ga (12-7 x 4 lines)? Are any vipulas allowed? > In a manuscript I am working on I have a verse with 5 lines in > ??rd?lavikr??ita. Is this common? (I have never seen it > before) If there is a resource with extended discussion of this > meter can you direct me to it? > > Sincerely, > > Michael Slouber > PhD Candidate > South and Southeast Asian Studies > UC Berkeley From victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL Sun May 17 11:20:21 2009 From: victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL (victor van bijlert) Date: Sun, 17 May 09 13:20:21 +0200 Subject: amrita In-Reply-To: <000001c9d60a$9cabc690$d60353b0$@nl> Message-ID: <161227086243.23782.6189927579299034316.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 869 Lines: 26 So far many thanks for the references. They were very helpful. One last question. Does anyone know about digital versions of the Thieme article? Many thanks again and warm greetings Victor van Bijlert -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens victor van bijlert Verzonden: zaterdag 16 mei 2009 11:42 Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Onderwerp: amrita Dear friends, I remember vaguely to have learned that in Vedic Sanskrit the word amrita does not mean immortality but rather something like ' long life'. Can anyone provide me with some references to articles on this word? I am also looking for parallels in other Vedic texts of the so-called Purusha-sukta (Rig Veda 10.90).Or perhaps adaptations of this hymn in later Sanskrit literature: Epics, Puranas. With many greetings and many thanks Victor van Bijlert From victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL Sun May 17 12:21:15 2009 From: victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL (victor van bijlert) Date: Sun, 17 May 09 14:21:15 +0200 Subject: amrita In-Reply-To: <000001c9d60a$9cabc690$d60353b0$@nl> Message-ID: <161227086246.23782.666761053948937502.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 398 Lines: 11 Dear friends, As an extra favour I would like to ask the following. The Purusha-sukta mentions the four varnas, seemingly for the first time in the Rig Veda. Are there other references in the Rig Veda to the four varnas by name, or perhaps to any of these four separately? And what about the four varnas in the other Veda-Samhitas or the Brahmanas and Aranyakas? Thanks again Victor van Bijlert From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Sun May 17 19:09:14 2009 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Sun, 17 May 09 15:09:14 -0400 Subject: Syntax of Dative In-Reply-To: <4A0F0ACD.9020407@comcast.net> Message-ID: <161227086257.23782.15454150459133910195.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2234 Lines: 48 Thanks to all those who sent suggestions on the syntax of dative with vidmahe and dh?mahi on and off this list. Madhav Deshpande ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of George Thompson [gthomgt at COMCAST.NET] Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:49 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Syntax of Dative Dear Madhav, My first impulse was to see the influence of the frequent collocation of namas + god-name in the dative. I see now that Delbrueck discusses namas, as well as other formulas of respect or invocation, such as svaahaa, svadhaa, vaSaT [p. 145 "Dativ bei Substantiven"] (sorry for using the now obsolete Harvard-Kyoto here, but for me the trouble to get the correct diacritics into an email is still too great). dhaa- in the sense 'to offer, lend' frequently takes the dative, of course. As for dhiimahi, the 'later tradition' which takes it from dhii- instead of dhaa- is I think triggered by the RV Gayatri itself, since dhiimahi is immediately followed by dhiyas there. I take this to be a pun in the mind of the Rsi, rather than an etymology. When the Gayatri is quoted in the TS 1.5.3, Keith prefers to translate dhiimahi as "we meditate" ['in the later priestly sense']. If he is right in doing so, then this quotation may indicate that the etymological sense of dhiimahi from dhaa- may already be lost. As for the dative with other verbs, vid- is cited by Delbrueck (umlauts are also too time-consuming) as taking a dative when it has a sense 'to provide for' [thus semantically close to 'give']. I hope this helps, and I also would be interested to hear from others. George Deshpande, Madhav wrote: >Dear Colleagues > >I am looking for some scholarly discussion on the use of datives with verbs like vidmahe and dh?mahi found in the late G?yatr?s as found in texts like the Taittir?iya Ara?yaka, e.g. ?????????? ??????? ???????? ????? / ????? ?????? ?????????? // The use of dative in these late G?yatr?s contrasts with the accusative in the old G?yatr? : ??? ?????????????? ????? ?????? ?????. I am looking for any scholarly discussion of this shift (?). Didn't see anything in Speyer/Speijer. Best, > >Madhav M. Deshpande > > From mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU Sun May 17 11:10:50 2009 From: mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU (Michael Slouber) Date: Sun, 17 May 09 16:55:50 +0545 Subject: Sardulavikridita metrics Message-ID: <161227086240.23782.10514295338321289500.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 476 Lines: 18 Dear Indology list members, Is there more to know about the ??rd?lavikr??ita meter than ma- sa-ja-sa-ta-ta-ga (12-7 x 4 lines)? Are any vipulas allowed? In a manuscript I am working on I have a verse with 5 lines in ??rd?lavikr??ita. Is this common? (I have never seen it before) If there is a resource with extended discussion of this meter can you direct me to it? Sincerely, Michael Slouber PhD Candidate South and Southeast Asian Studies UC Berkeley From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Sun May 17 16:41:17 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sun, 17 May 09 22:11:17 +0530 Subject: amrita Message-ID: <161227086254.23782.17859209918936470906.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1405 Lines: 29 The Arya-Sudra division is apparent even in the early part of the Rgveda but the four caste-system seems to have crystallised only in the late 10.90. Brahmins as a caste, Rajanyas, Vis's and Sudras are known to the AV. How far the occurrence of the terms reflect the existence of a rigid four caste system may be debated.??The other Vedas? know the four caste system. According to Kuiper ennobling was common with the early Rgvedic Aryans. That must not have been congenial for the growth of the rigid four caste system. This may be partly true of the early part of the Atharvaveda. These matters?require more search than that has been made. Best for all DB --- On Sun, 17/5/09, victor van bijlert wrote: From: victor van bijlert Subject: Re: amrita To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Sunday, 17 May, 2009, 5:51 PM Dear friends, As an extra favour I would like to ask the following. The Purusha-sukta mentions the four varnas, seemingly for the first time in the Rig Veda. Are there other references in the Rig Veda to the four varnas by name, or perhaps to any of these four separately? And what about the four varnas in the other Veda-Samhitas or the Brahmanas and Aranyakas? Thanks again Victor van Bijlert Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with Yahoo! India Travel http://in.travel.yahoo.com/ From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Mon May 18 02:44:19 2009 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Mon, 18 May 09 02:44:19 +0000 Subject: Sardulavikridita metrics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086262.23782.4598912509533833632.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2782 Lines: 71 It is also important to note that there seems to be a strong tendency for placement of a ceasura after the fourth ga?a. The ma?gala in ?r?dhara's Karmapa?jik?, whose critical edition is currently being prepared by Dr. S. Sumant (Pune) and myself, also presents an unexpected number of ??rd?lavikr??ita p?das: just two of them, whereafter the verse-form seems to become something that is meant to be Sragdhar?. I would be grateful references to similarly (un)structured ma?galas. I paste below the text of ?r?dhara's ma?gala as we currently suppose it must be edited. Best greetings, Arlo Griffiths ---- ????? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ???????? ???????????? ??????????? ????????????????? ? ???????????????????????? ???? ?????? ????????? ????????? ????? ?????????????????????????????? ? ????????????????????????????? ????????????????? ???????? ??????????????? ??????????? ??????? ???? ? ?????? ?????? ???????? ?????????? ????????? ????? ???????? ??????? ???? ??????????? ??????????? ????? ? ???????????? ???? ?????????????? ??????? ? ???????????? ??? ??????? ????????????? ? ---------------------------------------- > Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 07:28:10 -0700 > From: kiparsky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU > Subject: Re: Sardulavikridita metrics > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Ictus on syllables 3, 6, 8, 12, 14, 17, 19 --- you can hear a brief > example of the traditional way it is recited at http:// > pantheon.yale.edu/~asd49/sound/ > > For the theory, see Ashwini Deo, The metrical organization of > classical Sanskrit verse, Journal of Linguistics 43.63-114 (2007). > This is really essential reading for anyone interested in Sanskrit > metrics. > > On Deo's analysis, ??rd?lavikr??ita is one of the rhythmically > most complex and interesting meters (p. 109). Like some other > popular meters, such as Mand?kr?nt?, it has seven feet that shift > from tetramoraic to pentamoraic at the caesura, with the final foot > catalectic, in addition (unlike Mand?kr?nt?) also anacrusis in the > first foot. > > Paul Kiparsky > > > > > > > On May 17, 2009, at 4:10 AM, Michael Slouber wrote: > >> Dear Indology list members, >> >> Is there more to know about the ??rd?lavikr??ita meter than >> ma-sa-ja-sa-ta-ta-ga (12-7 x 4 lines)? Are any vipulas allowed? >> In a manuscript I am working on I have a verse with 5 lines in >> ??rd?lavikr??ita. Is this common? (I have never seen it >> before) If there is a resource with extended discussion of this >> meter can you direct me to it? >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Michael Slouber >> PhD Candidate >> South and Southeast Asian Studies >> UC Berkeley _________________________________________________________________ See all the ways you can stay connected to friends and family http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/default.aspx From kiparsky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU Mon May 18 18:23:47 2009 From: kiparsky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU (Paul Kiparsky) Date: Mon, 18 May 09 11:23:47 -0700 Subject: Sardulavikridita metrics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086266.23782.7234120205606265404.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4109 Lines: 124 On May 17, 2009, at 7:44 PM, Arlo Griffiths wrote: > > It is also important to note that there seems to be a strong > tendency for placement of a ceasura after the fourth ga?a. Right, after the fourth foot, which here happens to coincide with a ga?a. The ga?as of the trika system provide convenient mnemonics for the sequences of long and short syllables in a meter, but they are irrelevant to the rhythm of a line, to its foot structure, and to the placement of the caesura. These things are however revealed by formal metrical analysis, and, remarkably, they are also observed in the traditional chanting pattern. > The ma?gala in ?r?dhara's Karmapa?jik?, whose critical edition > is currently being prepared by Dr. S. Sumant (Pune) and myself, > also presents an unexpected number of ??rd?lavikr??ita p?das: > just two of them, whereafter the verse-form seems to become > something that is meant to be Sragdhar?. I would be grateful > references to similarly (un)structured ma?galas. I paste below the > text of ?r?dhara's ma?gala as we currently suppose it must be > edited. The alternation of ??rd?lavikr??ita with Sragdhar? makes sense because they have structural affinities. ??rd?lavikr??ita has seven rising feet, falling into two hemistichs divided by a caesura. The first hemistich has four tetramoraic feet (with anacrusis), the second has three pentamoraic feet (with catalexis). Mand?kr?nt? and Chitralekh? have the same 4:3 pattern of tetramoraic and pentamoraic feet, only the feet are falling rather than rising. Sragdhar? is similar except that it has an extra foot in the first hemistich (actually a problem for Deo's analysis, as she points out). Paul Kiparsky > Best greetings, > Arlo Griffiths > ---- > ????? ?? ???? ?????? > ????? ?????? ???? > ???????? > ???????????? > ??????????? > ????????????????? ? > ?????????????????????? > ?? ???? ?????? ????????? > ????????? ????? > ?????????????????????? > ???????? ? > ?????????????????????? > ??????? > ????????????????? > ???????? > ??????????????? > ??????????? ??????? > ???? ? > ?????? ?????? ???????? > ?????????? ????????? > ????? > ???????? ??????? ???? > ??????????? > ??????????? ????? ? > ???????????? ???? > ?????????????? ??????? ? > ???????????? ??? > ??????? ????????????? ? > > > ---------------------------------------- >> Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 07:28:10 -0700 >> From: kiparsky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU >> Subject: Re: Sardulavikridita metrics >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> >> Ictus on syllables 3, 6, 8, 12, 14, 17, 19 --- you can hear a brief >> example of the traditional way it is recited at http:// >> pantheon.yale.edu/~asd49/sound/ >> >> For the theory, see Ashwini Deo, The metrical organization of >> classical Sanskrit verse, Journal of Linguistics 43.63-114 (2007). >> This is really essential reading for anyone interested in Sanskrit >> metrics. >> >> On Deo's analysis, ??rd?lavikr??ita is one of the rhythmically >> most complex and interesting meters (p. 109). Like some other >> popular meters, such as Mand?kr?nt?, it has seven feet that shift >> from tetramoraic to pentamoraic at the caesura, with the final foot >> catalectic, in addition (unlike Mand?kr?nt?) also anacrusis in the >> first foot. >> >> Paul Kiparsky >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On May 17, 2009, at 4:10 AM, Michael Slouber wrote: >> >>> Dear Indology list members, >>> >>> Is there more to know about the ??rd?lavikr??ita meter than >>> ma-sa-ja-sa-ta-ta-ga (12-7 x 4 lines)? Are any vipulas allowed? >>> In a manuscript I am working on I have a verse with 5 lines in >>> ??rd?lavikr??ita. Is this common? (I have never seen it >>> before) If there is a resource with extended discussion of this >>> meter can you direct me to it? >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Michael Slouber >>> PhD Candidate >>> South and Southeast Asian Studies >>> UC Berkeley > > _________________________________________________________________ > See all the ways you can stay connected to friends and family > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/default.aspx From acollins at GCI.NET Mon May 18 23:01:22 2009 From: acollins at GCI.NET (Alfred Collins) Date: Mon, 18 May 09 15:01:22 -0800 Subject: Image of goddess and anthill Message-ID: <161227086270.23782.9951738905347747701.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 753 Lines: 8 This is on behalf of the Archive for Research in Archetypal Symbolism (ARAS) who are looking for a high quality image to publish of an anthill associated with an Indian goddess image (I believe the goddess figure--made of mud?-- is often set in front of the anthill, which is painted in Goddess colors). I am aware that this is very old symbolism (Vedic NirRti is associated with the anthill, as I recall). If anyone is able to provide a good color photograph for publication (acknowledgement will be provided I am sure, but I don' think they can pay) I will pass it along, or you can correspond with Annmari Ronnberg directly at aras at aras.org. Background information on the image and provenance would be essential of course. Thanks, Al Collins From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Tue May 19 17:40:17 2009 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Tue, 19 May 09 19:40:17 +0200 Subject: Akota bronzes--a few pages please! Message-ID: <161227086274.23782.15461564966119605813.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 724 Lines: 23 Friends, Apparently, the copy of Akota Bronzes by U P Shah supposedly purchased by our library never made it into the collection, and the library has been unable to replace it. Therefore, I wonder whether someone who has it to hand would be willing to scan just a page or two for me. In particular, I am interested in the bronze apparently found on pg. 34, plates 75a-b, and the author's reading of its inscription (actually, I am only interested in the inscription, not the piece itself :-) So a scan of the inscription, if legible, and the editor's reading and translation would be great--many thanks in advance! jonathan silk -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET Wed May 20 10:42:33 2009 From: cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET (George Cardona) Date: Wed, 20 May 09 06:42:33 -0400 Subject: Akota bronzes--a few pages please! Message-ID: <161227086288.23782.2548538507137859505.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1773 Lines: 49 You could get in touch with the director, M. L. Wadekar, or the deputy director, S. Y. Wanankar, whose email addresses are: mlwadekar at hotmail.com, syw16 at rediffmail.com. Good wishes, George Cardona -----Original Message----- >From: Dipak Bhattacharya >Sent: May 20, 2009 12:08 AM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: Re: Akota bronzes--a few pages please! > >Dear Professor Silk, >Other sources failing, perhaps, an enquiry could be made at the Oriental Institute, Baroda or Librarian, MS University, Baroda. They took interest in U.P.Shah. The email id of the Institute are not known to me. But there are List members who could know. >Best wishes >DB > >--- On Tue, 19/5/09, Jonathan Silk wrote: > > >From: Jonathan Silk >Subject: Akota bronzes--a few pages please! >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Date: Tuesday, 19 May, 2009, 11:10 PM > > >Friends, > >Apparently, the copy of Akota Bronzes by U P Shah supposedly purchased by >our library never made it into the collection, and the library has been >unable to replace it. Therefore, I wonder whether someone who has it to hand >would be willing to scan just a page or two for me. In particular, I am >interested in the bronze apparently found on pg. 34, plates 75a-b, and the >author's reading of its inscription (actually, I am only interested in the >inscription, not the piece itself :-) So a scan of the inscription, if >legible, and the editor's reading and translation would be great--many >thanks in advance! > >jonathan silk > >-- >J. Silk >Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden >Postbus 9515 >2300 RA Leiden >Netherlands > > > > Explore your hobbies and interests. Go to http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/ From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Wed May 20 04:08:57 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 20 May 09 09:38:57 +0530 Subject: Akota bronzes--a few pages please! Message-ID: <161227086277.23782.1949180684043144226.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1328 Lines: 41 Dear Professor Silk, Other sources failing, perhaps, an enquiry could be made at the Oriental Institute, Baroda or Librarian, MS University, Baroda. They took interest in U.P.Shah. The email id of the Institute are not known to me. But there are List members who could know. Best wishes DB --- On Tue, 19/5/09, Jonathan Silk wrote: From: Jonathan Silk Subject: Akota bronzes--a few pages please! To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 19 May, 2009, 11:10 PM Friends, Apparently, the copy of Akota Bronzes by U P Shah supposedly purchased by our library never made it into the collection, and the library has been unable to replace it. Therefore, I wonder whether someone who has it to hand would be willing to scan just a page or two for me. In particular, I am interested in the bronze apparently found on pg. 34, plates 75a-b, and the author's reading of its inscription (actually, I am only interested in the inscription, not the piece itself :-) So a scan of the inscription, if legible, and the editor's reading and translation would be great--many thanks in advance! jonathan silk -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands Explore your hobbies and interests. Go to http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/ From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Wed May 20 04:11:56 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 20 May 09 09:41:56 +0530 Subject: Akota bronzes--a few pages please! Message-ID: <161227086280.23782.10618844069494686904.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1695 Lines: 54 --- On Wed, 20/5/09, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: Akota bronzes--a few pages please! To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 20 May, 2009, 9:38 AM Dear Professor Silk, Other sources failing, perhaps, an enquiry could be made at the Oriental Institute, Baroda or Librarian, MS University, Baroda. They took interest in U.P.Shah. The email id of the Institute?is not known to me. But there are List members who could know. Best wishes DB --- On Tue, 19/5/09, Jonathan Silk wrote: From: Jonathan Silk Subject: Akota bronzes--a few pages please! To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 19 May, 2009, 11:10 PM Friends, Apparently, the copy of Akota Bronzes by U P Shah supposedly purchased by our library never made it into the collection, and the library has been unable to replace it. Therefore, I wonder whether someone who has it to hand would be willing to scan just a page or two for me. In particular, I am interested in the bronze apparently found on pg. 34, plates 75a-b, and the author's reading of its inscription (actually, I am only interested in the inscription, not the piece itself :-) So a scan of the inscription, if legible, and the editor's reading and translation would be great--many thanks in advance! jonathan silk -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands ? ? ? Explore your hobbies and interests. Go to http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/ Cricket on your mind? Visit the ultimate cricket website. Enter http://beta.cricket.yahoo.com From d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK Wed May 20 08:30:56 2009 From: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 20 May 09 10:30:56 +0200 Subject: SARIT update Message-ID: <161227086284.23782.1859853901600552628.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 884 Lines: 33 Dear colleagues, Richard Mahoney and I are pleased to be able to report that the SARIT transcript of the A????gah?dayasa?hit? by V?gbha?a has just been released. It can be searched alongside Manu and Kau?alya through the SARIT web interface: Table of Contents :: V?gbha?a [1997], A machine-readable transcription of the A????gah?daya by V?gbha?a :: (INDOLOGY: Resources for Indological Scholarship, London, 1997) http://sarit.indology.info/newphilo/navigate.pl?indologica.3 or downloaded for off-line use: SARIT: Text Archive Downloads http://sarit.indology.info/downloads.shtml We would like to express our gratitude to Prof. R. P. Das and the late Prof. Dr Emmerick for inputting this text and making it generally available. -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk International Institute of Asian Studies http://iias.nl long term email address: wujastyk at gmail.com From dxs163 at CASE.EDU Wed May 20 15:14:55 2009 From: dxs163 at CASE.EDU (Deepak Sarma) Date: Wed, 20 May 09 11:14:55 -0400 Subject: Who is the director of the Director of the Deccan College Post Graduate and Research Institute? In-Reply-To: <27447611.1242816153228.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <161227086303.23782.8603951219737046908.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 559 Lines: 29 All: Who is the director of the Director of the Deccan College Post Graduate and Research Institute and what is her/ his contact info? I have searched all over the web and have had no luck at all. thanks in advance, Deepak Dr. Deepak Sarma Associate Professor of Religious Studies Associate Professor of Philosophy Asian Studies Faculty Mailing Address: Department of Religious Studies 111 Mather House 11201 Euclid Avenue Case Western Reserve University Cleveland, OH 44106-7112 office: 216-368-4790 fax: 216-368-4681 deepak.sarma at case.edu From joseph.walser at TUFTS.EDU Wed May 20 15:27:47 2009 From: joseph.walser at TUFTS.EDU (Joseph Walser) Date: Wed, 20 May 09 11:27:47 -0400 Subject: Who is the director of the Director of the Deccan College Post Graduate and Research Institute? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086307.23782.5150182143057515541.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 240 Lines: 16 I believe it is Aloka Parasher-Sen at University of Hyderabad. If not she would know who it is. -j -- Joseph Walser Associate Professor Department of Religion Tufts University 126 Curtis Street Medford, MA 02155 Office: 617 627-2322 From cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET Wed May 20 16:06:01 2009 From: cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET (George Cardona) Date: Wed, 20 May 09 12:06:01 -0400 Subject: Akota bronzes--a few pages please! Message-ID: <161227086316.23782.17446054585722129996.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 515 Lines: 18 Thanks, Dominik. George -----Original Message----- >From: Dominik Wujastyk >Sent: May 20, 2009 7:59 AM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: Re: Akota bronzes--a few pages please! > >On Wed, 20 May 2009, George Cardona wrote: > >> You could get in touch with the director, M. L. Wadekar, or the deputy >> director, S. Y. Wanankar, whose email addresses are: >> mlwadekar at hotmail.com, syw16 at rediffmail.com. Good wishes, George Cardona > >small typo: that's S. Y. Wakankar. From d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK Wed May 20 11:59:46 2009 From: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 20 May 09 13:59:46 +0200 Subject: Akota bronzes--a few pages please! In-Reply-To: <27447611.1242816153228.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <161227086292.23782.8778116928892667747.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 294 Lines: 10 On Wed, 20 May 2009, George Cardona wrote: > You could get in touch with the director, M. L. Wadekar, or the deputy > director, S. Y. Wanankar, whose email addresses are: > mlwadekar at hotmail.com, syw16 at rediffmail.com. Good wishes, George Cardona small typo: that's S. Y. Wakankar. From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Wed May 20 13:16:44 2009 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Wed, 20 May 09 15:16:44 +0200 Subject: Akota bronzes--a few pages please! In-Reply-To: <27447611.1242816153228.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <161227086298.23782.14175265389889718157.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 395 Lines: 16 With thanks to all, a very kind colleague sent a scan of the few pages I need. I have not had time to study the plate carefully, but what is curious is that the scribe/engraver appears indeed to have written not deyadharma- but devadharma-. Is this a common mistake? very best thanks to all, jonathan -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Wed May 20 23:01:54 2009 From: baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Wed, 20 May 09 16:01:54 -0700 Subject: Akota bronzes--a few pages please! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086326.23782.5074391474604806974.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 497 Lines: 24 Dear Jonathan, > the scribe/engraver appears indeed to have written not > deyadharma- but devadharma-. Is this a common mistake? yes, that happens. See p. 24 of: Heinrich L?ders, 1940. Zu und aus den Kharo??h??Urkunden. Acta Orientalia 18: 15?49. for three devadharmas in Ku???a?period Sanskrit inscriptions from a monastery in Mathura and one in a 10th/11th?century inscription from Bengal. All best, Stefan -- Stefan Baums Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington From rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Wed May 20 23:21:30 2009 From: rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Richard Salomon) Date: Wed, 20 May 09 16:21:30 -0700 Subject: Akota bronzes--a few pages please! Message-ID: <161227086330.23782.17803205606898278874.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 858 Lines: 38 Jonathan/Stefan, Didn't Gouriswar Bhattacharya also write something about this word more recently? -- I think in a Festschrift, maybe for D.C. Sircar? Rich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Baums" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 4:01 PM Subject: Re: Akota bronzes--a few pages please! Dear Jonathan, > the scribe/engraver appears indeed to have written not > deyadharma- but devadharma-. Is this a common mistake? yes, that happens. See p. 24 of: Heinrich L?ders, 1940. Zu und aus den Kharo??h??Urkunden. Acta Orientalia 18: 15?49. for three devadharmas in Ku???a?period Sanskrit inscriptions from a monastery in Mathura and one in a 10th/11th?century inscription from Bengal. All best, Stefan -- Stefan Baums Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington From baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Wed May 20 23:36:03 2009 From: baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Wed, 20 May 09 16:36:03 -0700 Subject: Akota bronzes--a few pages please! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086333.23782.15123790370748177064.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 615 Lines: 22 > Didn't Gouriswar Bhattacharya also write something about this > word more recently? Maybe this article: G. Bhattacharya, 1987. D?na ? deyadharma: donation in early Buddhist records (in Br?hm?). In: Marianne Yaldiz and Wibke Lobo, eds., Investigating Indian art: proceedings of a symposium on the development of early Buddhist and Hindu iconography held at the Museum of Indian Art Berlin in May 1986, Berlin: Museum f?r Indische Kunst (Ver?ffentlichungen des Museums f?r Indische Kunst, volume 8), pp. 39?60. S. -- Stefan Baums Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington From kiepue at T-ONLINE.DE Wed May 20 15:40:41 2009 From: kiepue at T-ONLINE.DE (=?utf-8?Q?petra_kieffer-P=C3=BClz?=) Date: Wed, 20 May 09 17:40:41 +0200 Subject: textual sequence Message-ID: <161227086312.23782.3719523422281561469.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 691 Lines: 26 Dear All, According to my experience the textual sequence in commentaries regularly is: text to be commented on (for instance a verse or list of terms), commentary on the words or terms of the preceding verse or list (prat?kas plus explanations). I now have a P?li commentary where it is exactly the other way round (prat?kas plus explanations, followed by the text from which the prat?kas are extracted). I would like to know whether this is a common feature in commentarial literature only unnoticed by me. Would be thankful for any comments, Petra ************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2 99423 Weimar Germany Tel. 03643/770447 kiepue at t-online.de From baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Thu May 21 01:44:41 2009 From: baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Wed, 20 May 09 18:44:41 -0700 Subject: textual sequence In-Reply-To: <10EBE4E2-BF7C-4FA2-A2A9-D1C13F438F27@t-online.de> Message-ID: <161227086339.23782.6303843857952551997.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1541 Lines: 37 Dear Petra, in G?ndh?r? commentary manuscripts (1st c. BCE to 2nd c. CE), root verses are identified at the beginnig of commentary sections by their first p?da, and prose root texts by their first few words. This is then followed by the body of the commentary with prat?kas (usually without iti and often without any indication of their root status) interspersed. The root text is nowhere quoted in full, neither before nor after the commentary, which probably means that readers were supposed to know it by heart and just needed their memory jogged. Over on the Pali side, I think that if you look at the Niddesa, the original order is for a full quotation of a root verse to follow the commentary as you describe. Each of the commentary sections is introduced by a quotation of the first p?da of the verse in question, just like in the G?ndh?r? manuscripts. Now modern editions of the Niddesa (and recent manuscripts?) _also_ print the root verse before its commentary section, but such a double full quotation seems rather clearly secondary, and it is the full quotation after the commentary body that is syntactically linked to the preceding (by the phrase ?ten?ha bhagav? ... ?), so that is presumably the more original one of the two. One could further compare the Ud?na and similar texts, where the root verse likewise follows the explanatory prose, introduced by a linking phrase ?atha kho bhagav? ... ima? ud?na? ud?nesi ... .? All best wishes, Stefan -- Stefan Baums Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Thu May 21 01:45:21 2009 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Wed, 20 May 09 18:45:21 -0700 Subject: Machine-readable version of the Mahabharata and Prof. Daniel Ingalls Message-ID: <161227086343.23782.14750174310288634575.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2106 Lines: 44 I just received the following note from Dan Ingalls, Jr., the son of Prof. Ingalls. > I recently transcribed a tape of a talk my father and I gave (a > quarter of a century ago ;-), and got interested again in the topic > of producing a machine-readable version of the Mahabharata. We > dropped the project back in 1980 because it seemed like a lot of > work, and it wasn't clear that it made more sense to pay for > technology than to pay real people who needed jobs to do the work. > > However I still have an unbound copy of the Bandarkar edition, I > know some people at Google who might be willing to do the scanning > (I don't know this for sure), and on todays machines the processing > would not be a huge amount of work. I think my modest Macintosh > could probably do a page a second. > > My question to you is this: Has this already been done, by hand or > otherwise and, if not, is it still something that would be of value? > A side-effect of reviving the project would be to dust off my tools > and make them available to other workers in the field. My programs > were all written in my own language (Smalltalk) that only ran on > special hardware at the time, but there is now an open-source > version that runs on just about every computer and operating system. I am posting this (with Dan's permission) for comments. My own feeling is that if Dan has an unbound copy, he could run it through a scanning machine and make available a graphic version -- surely the BORS edition of the MBh is one of the great achievements of 20th century scholarship in any field. I don't know whether it is still under copyright. As far as scanning it goes, I think the wiggly lines under many words would pose a problem -- and it would be almost impossible to scan the apparatus criticus, which is of course a vital part of the work. But with Dan's fluency in smalltalk, perhaps these issues could be overcome. For anyone interested in seeing Prof. Ingalls giving a lecture in 1980 on this project, see http://vimeo.com/4714623 George Hart From adheesh at OCF.BERKELEY.EDU Thu May 21 02:01:54 2009 From: adheesh at OCF.BERKELEY.EDU (Adheesh Sathaye) Date: Wed, 20 May 09 19:01:54 -0700 Subject: Machine-readable version of the Mahabharata and Prof. Daniel Ingalls In-Reply-To: <3B1560BE-E155-4E14-B244-C00D2866D00A@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227086346.23782.14356696001446416754.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2999 Lines: 75 Dear George et al, I imagine the Tokunaga/Smith electronic version of the MBH (http://bombay.indology.info/mahabharata/statement.html ) is sufficient for most basic scholarly purposes? it contains many of the supplementary ("starred")passages, though not all of the variant readings, I believe. There was some controversy during its editing at BORI which others on the list might be better equipped to discuss. But as of now, this e- text is freely available. The Critical Edition itself is still under copyright in India, and BORI still actively sells copies--so I would strongly advise against scanning a graphic version without seeking permission. All best wishes, Adheesh ---- Adheesh Sathaye Department of Asian Studies University of British Columbia On May 20, 2009, at 6:45 PM, George Hart wrote: > I just received the following note from Dan Ingalls, Jr., the son of > Prof. Ingalls. > >> I recently transcribed a tape of a talk my father and I gave (a >> quarter of a century ago ;-), and got interested again in the topic >> of producing a machine-readable version of the Mahabharata. We >> dropped the project back in 1980 because it seemed like a lot of >> work, and it wasn't clear that it made more sense to pay for >> technology than to pay real people who needed jobs to do the work. >> >> However I still have an unbound copy of the Bandarkar edition, I >> know some people at Google who might be willing to do the scanning >> (I don't know this for sure), and on todays machines the processing >> would not be a huge amount of work. I think my modest Macintosh >> could probably do a page a second. >> >> My question to you is this: Has this already been done, by hand or >> otherwise and, if not, is it still something that would be of >> value? A side-effect of reviving the project would be to dust off >> my tools and make them available to other workers in the field. My >> programs were all written in my own language (Smalltalk) that only >> ran on special hardware at the time, but there is now an open- >> source version that runs on just about every computer and operating >> system. > > I am posting this (with Dan's permission) for comments. My own > feeling is that if Dan has an unbound copy, he could run it through > a scanning machine and make available a graphic version -- surely > the BORS edition of the MBh is one of the great achievements of 20th > century scholarship in any field. I don't know whether it is still > under copyright. As far as scanning it goes, I think the wiggly > lines under many words would pose a problem -- and it would be > almost impossible to scan the apparatus criticus, which is of course > a vital part of the work. But with Dan's fluency in smalltalk, > perhaps these issues could be overcome. > > For anyone interested in seeing Prof. Ingalls giving a lecture in > 1980 on this project, see > > http://vimeo.com/4714623 > > George Hart > From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Wed May 20 16:09:36 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 20 May 09 21:39:36 +0530 Subject: textual sequence Message-ID: <161227086319.23782.8765202870895575222.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1444 Lines: 35 It is difficult to say without examining the passages concerned. But there is a regular practice of indicating the?section dealt with at the end of the discourse. See any? commentariy?on the Amarako.sa, (say,Bh?nuji D?k.sita) on any entry end eg., pa?ca ?aileyasya ?il?jita iti khy?tasya II.122,123a. But it is? not being claimed that the same is the case with the Pali commentary. Please indicate if?that practice is relevant DB --- On Wed, 20/5/09, petra kieffer-P?lz wrote: From: petra kieffer-P?lz Subject: textual sequence To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 20 May, 2009, 9:10 PM Dear All, According to my experience the textual sequence in commentaries regularly is: text to be commented on (for instance a verse or list of terms), commentary on the words or terms of the preceding verse or list (prat?kas plus explanations). I now have a P?li commentary where it is exactly the other way round (prat?kas plus explanations, followed by the text from which the prat?kas are extracted). I would like to know whether this is? a common feature in commentarial literature only unnoticed by me. Would be thankful for any comments, Petra ************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2 99423 Weimar Germany Tel. 03643/770447 kiepue at t-online.de Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with Yahoo! India Travel http://in.travel.yahoo.com/ From pkoskikallio at GMAIL.COM Wed May 20 18:57:11 2009 From: pkoskikallio at GMAIL.COM (Petteri Koskikallio) Date: Wed, 20 May 09 21:57:11 +0300 Subject: The 2nd Prakrit Summer School Message-ID: <161227086322.23782.17482093675448580903.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 321 Lines: 16 Just a reminder for those interested in introductory course in Jaina-Maharastri. The 2nd Prakrit Summer School will be held in W?rzburg in August 17-28, 2009. Please note that the deadline for applications is June 15. http://www.indologie.uni-wuerzburg.de/prakrit_summer_school/ Best wishes, Petteri Koskikallio From baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Thu May 21 07:52:35 2009 From: baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Thu, 21 May 09 00:52:35 -0700 Subject: Akota bronzes--a few pages please! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086359.23782.18171078223386017059.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 953 Lines: 32 Dear Jonathan, the G?ndh?r? form devasama? occurs in line 11 of Se?avarma?s reliquary inscription, see here: http://ebmp.org/a_inscription.php?catid=CKI0249 In his 1986 edition of this inscription (p. 280), Rich gives some further references. (Von Hin?ber does not comment on this form in his 2003 edition of Se?avarma.) For the apparently Eastern sound change of intervocalic y to v (reflected in Pali ?vuso, t?vati?sa, etc.) that may be operative here see von Hin?ber, ?lteres Mittelindisch, ? 214. This word also occurs contracted to desama- in the Taxila silver scroll: http://ebmp.org/a_inscription.php?catid=CKI0060 and elsewhere, so at least in the Northwestern parts the identity of the first part of the compound appears to have become unclear fairly early on, making possible the (presumably) folk etymology connecting it with deva?. Best wishes, Stefan -- Stefan Baums Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Thu May 21 02:40:19 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Thu, 21 May 09 08:10:19 +0530 Subject: textual sequence Message-ID: <161227086349.23782.12954091056336933841.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1942 Lines: 53 The g?th? coming at the end?has remained?a feature of the J?takas in general. DB? --- On Thu, 21/5/09, Stefan Baums wrote: From: Stefan Baums Subject: Re: textual sequence To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Thursday, 21 May, 2009, 7:14 AM Dear Petra, in G?ndh?r? commentary manuscripts (1st c. BCE to 2nd c. CE), root verses are identified at the beginnig of commentary sections by their first p?da, and prose root texts by their first few words. This is then followed by the body of the commentary with prat?kas (usually without iti and often without any indication of their root status) interspersed. The root text is nowhere quoted in full, neither before nor after the commentary, which probably means that readers were supposed to know it by heart and just needed their memory jogged. Over on the Pali side, I think that if you look at the Niddesa, the original order is for a full quotation of a root verse to follow the commentary as you describe. Each of the commentary sections is introduced by a quotation of the first p?da of the verse in question, just like in the G?ndh?r? manuscripts. Now modern editions of the Niddesa (and recent manuscripts?) _also_ print the root verse before its commentary section, but such a double full quotation seems rather clearly secondary, and it is the full quotation after the commentary body that is syntactically linked to the preceding (by the phrase ?ten?ha bhagav? ... ?), so that is presumably the more original one of the two. One could further compare the Ud?na and similar texts, where the root verse likewise follows the explanatory prose, introduced by a linking phrase ?atha kho bhagav? ... ima? ud?na? ud?nesi ... .? All best wishes, Stefan -- Stefan Baums Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington Bollywood news, movie reviews, film trailers and more! Go to http://in.movies.yahoo.com/ From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Thu May 21 07:20:37 2009 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Thu, 21 May 09 09:20:37 +0200 Subject: Akota bronzes--a few pages please! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086352.23782.364850275403499294.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1712 Lines: 60 I confess that it occured to me only too late of course to check Sircar first of all--rather stupid, sorry! But the context itself as well as othe reference cited by Stefan make me strongly suspect that the answer should be sought elsewhere (that is, I don't think we should be disposed to take deva as = deva). A graphic error is hardly possible, I should think; is there a phonological explanation? Again, I apologize but our library is closed until next week... many thanks jonathan 2009/5/21 Antonio Ferreira-Jardim > I'm not sure if this is helpful or not but Sircar's Indian > Epigraphical Glossary sv. "devadharma" states: > > "deva-dharma (Ep. Ind., Vol. XXVIII, p. 144), same as > deya-dharma when the gift was the image of a god." > > Kind regards, > > Antonio Ferreira-Jardim > University of Queensland > > > On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Stefan Baums > wrote: > >> Didn't Gouriswar Bhattacharya also write something about this > >> word more recently? > > > > Maybe this article: > > > > G. Bhattacharya, 1987. D?na - deyadharma: donation in early > > Buddhist records (in Br?hm?). In: Marianne Yaldiz and Wibke > > Lobo, eds., Investigating Indian art: proceedings of a > > symposium on the development of early Buddhist and Hindu > > iconography held at the Museum of Indian Art Berlin in May > > 1986, Berlin: Museum f?r Indische Kunst (Ver?ffentlichungen des > > Museums f?r Indische Kunst, volume 8), pp. 39-60. > > > > S. > > > > -- > > Stefan Baums > > Asian Languages and Literature > > University of Washington > > > -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From cbpicron at GMX.DE Thu May 21 07:35:43 2009 From: cbpicron at GMX.DE (Claudine Bautze-Picron) Date: Thu, 21 May 09 09:35:43 +0200 Subject: Akota bronzes--a few pages please! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086355.23782.12226832851120632244.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2346 Lines: 71 Dear Jonathan, Check indeed the paper by G. Bhattacharya mentioned before (down this mail), it is also republished in "Essays on Buddhist, Hindu, Jain Iconography & Epigraphy", by Gouriswar Bhattacharya (Studies in Bengal Art Series N? 1, Dhaka: The International Centre for Study of Bengal Art, 2000, pp. 385-406) - see in particularly his endnote 134 (with references to Edgerton & von Hin?ber). Claudine. -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Jonathan Silk Sent: Donnerstag, 21. Mai 2009 09:21 To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Akota bronzes--a few pages please! I confess that it occured to me only too late of course to check Sircar first of all--rather stupid, sorry! But the context itself as well as othe reference cited by Stefan make me strongly suspect that the answer should be sought elsewhere (that is, I don't think we should be disposed to take deva as = deva). A graphic error is hardly possible, I should think; is there a phonological explanation? Again, I apologize but our library is closed until next week... many thanks jonathan 2009/5/21 Antonio Ferreira-Jardim > I'm not sure if this is helpful or not but Sircar's Indian > Epigraphical Glossary sv. "devadharma" states: > > "deva-dharma (Ep. Ind., Vol. XXVIII, p. 144), same as > deya-dharma when the gift was the image of a god." > > Kind regards, > > Antonio Ferreira-Jardim > University of Queensland > > > On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Stefan Baums > wrote: > >> Didn't Gouriswar Bhattacharya also write something about this > >> word more recently? > > > > Maybe this article: > > > > G. Bhattacharya, 1987. D?na - deyadharma: donation in early > > Buddhist records (in Br?hm?). In: Marianne Yaldiz and Wibke > > Lobo, eds., Investigating Indian art: proceedings of a > > symposium on the development of early Buddhist and Hindu > > iconography held at the Museum of Indian Art Berlin in May > > 1986, Berlin: Museum f?r Indische Kunst (Ver?ffentlichungen des > > Museums f?r Indische Kunst, volume 8), pp. 39-60. > > > > S. > > > > -- > > Stefan Baums > > Asian Languages and Literature > > University of Washington > > > -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From antonio.jardim at GMAIL.COM Wed May 20 23:49:45 2009 From: antonio.jardim at GMAIL.COM (Antonio Ferreira-Jardim) Date: Thu, 21 May 09 09:49:45 +1000 Subject: Akota bronzes--a few pages please! In-Reply-To: <20090520233603.GE32234@ubuntu> Message-ID: <161227086336.23782.16801010605668095644.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1001 Lines: 36 I'm not sure if this is helpful or not but Sircar's Indian Epigraphical Glossary sv. "devadharma" states: "deva-dharma (Ep. Ind., Vol. XXVIII, p. 144), same as deya-dharma when the gift was the image of a god." Kind regards, Antonio Ferreira-Jardim University of Queensland On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Stefan Baums wrote: >> Didn't Gouriswar Bhattacharya also write something about this >> word more recently? > > Maybe this article: > > G. Bhattacharya, 1987. D?na - deyadharma: donation in early > Buddhist records (in Br?hm?). In: Marianne Yaldiz and Wibke > Lobo, eds., Investigating Indian art: proceedings of a > symposium on the development of early Buddhist and Hindu > iconography held at the Museum of Indian Art Berlin in May > 1986, Berlin: Museum f?r Indische Kunst (Ver?ffentlichungen des > Museums f?r Indische Kunst, volume 8), pp. 39-60. > > S. > > -- > Stefan Baums > Asian Languages and Literature > University of Washington > From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Thu May 21 08:01:37 2009 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Thu, 21 May 09 10:01:37 +0200 Subject: Akota bronzes--a few pages please! In-Reply-To: <20090521075235.GB11875@ubuntu> Message-ID: <161227086362.23782.16128415216382645859.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1583 Lines: 55 Thanks Stefan! (By the way, you might want to check the way the website is processing foot notes in the inscription--they're almost all note 1, it seems...) Many thanks to all; I'll follow up the references when I can get to my office and the library. (I can't help observing how a putatively very nonreligious country like the Netherlands seems to pay very special attention to holy days ....) jonathan On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Stefan Baums wrote: > Dear Jonathan, > > the G?ndh?r? form devasama? occurs in line 11 of Se?avarma?s > reliquary inscription, see here: > > http://ebmp.org/a_inscription.php?catid=CKI0249 > > In his 1986 edition of this inscription (p. 280), Rich gives some > further references. (Von Hin?ber does not comment on this form in > his 2003 edition of Se?avarma.) For the apparently Eastern sound > change of intervocalic y to v (reflected in Pali ?vuso, t?vati?sa, > etc.) that may be operative here see von Hin?ber, ?lteres > Mittelindisch, ? 214. This word also occurs contracted to desama- > in the Taxila silver scroll: > > http://ebmp.org/a_inscription.php?catid=CKI0060 > > and elsewhere, so at least in the Northwestern parts the identity > of the first part of the compound appears to have become unclear > fairly early on, making possible the (presumably) folk etymology > connecting it with deva?. > > Best wishes, > Stefan > > -- > Stefan Baums > Asian Languages and Literature > University of Washington > -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From kiepue at T-ONLINE.DE Thu May 21 09:42:44 2009 From: kiepue at T-ONLINE.DE (=?utf-8?Q?petra_kieffer-P=C3=BClz?=) Date: Thu, 21 May 09 11:42:44 +0200 Subject: textual sequence In-Reply-To: <20090521014441.GB4165@ubuntu> Message-ID: <161227086365.23782.18376635547471382226.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2187 Lines: 61 Dear Stefan, thank you for your comments, especially for those on the Niddesa, etc. This seems to be comparable to the chapter headings originally also given in the end. I think this is the solution for my passage, which strictly speaking is not a commentary, but the introduction to a commentary. Thanks also to all others for their comments. Petra My description was not fully correct, because the Am 21.05.2009 um 03:44 schrieb Stefan Baums: > Dear Petra, > > in G?ndh?r? commentary manuscripts (1st c. BCE to 2nd c. CE), root > verses are identified at the beginnig of commentary sections by > their first p?da, and prose root texts by their first few > words. This is then followed by the body of the commentary with > prat?kas (usually without iti and often without any indication of > their root status) interspersed. The root text is nowhere quoted > in full, neither before nor after the commentary, which probably > means that readers were supposed to know it by heart and just > needed their memory jogged. > > Over on the Pali side, I think that if you look at the Niddesa, > the original order is for a full quotation of a root verse to > follow the commentary as you describe. Each of the commentary > sections is introduced by a quotation of the first p?da of the > verse in question, just like in the G?ndh?r? manuscripts. Now > modern editions of the Niddesa (and recent manuscripts?) _also_ > print the root verse before its commentary section, but such a > double full quotation seems rather clearly secondary, and it is > the full quotation after the commentary body that is syntactically > linked to the preceding (by the phrase ?ten?ha bhagav? ... ?), > so > that is presumably the more original one of the two. One could > further compare the Ud?na and similar texts, where the root verse > likewise follows the explanatory prose, introduced by a linking > phrase ?atha kho bhagav? ... ima? ud?na? ud?nesi ... .? > > All best wishes, > Stefan > > -- > Stefan Baums > Asian Languages and Literature > University of Washington ************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2 99423 Weimar Germany Tel. 03643/770447 kiepue at t-online.de From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Sun May 24 01:06:00 2009 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Sat, 23 May 09 18:06:00 -0700 Subject: Machine-readable version of the Mahabharata and Prof. Daniel Ingalls In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086368.23782.2171735240651036724.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 83 Lines: 5 Thanks to everyone who responded -- I've passed on your ideas to Dan. George From baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Sun May 24 09:44:05 2009 From: baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Sun, 24 May 09 02:44:05 -0700 Subject: On the technical term "pra t=?utf-8?Q?=C4=ABka"?= In-Reply-To: <4A1910AB.1000202@univie.ac.at> Message-ID: <161227086394.23782.7646941346122937947.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1162 Lines: 34 Dear Birgit, > the indigenous use of "prat?ka" is limited only to the words of > the root-text taken up at the very beginning of the commentary > section that is concerned with it that was my impression too, but I can?t back it up with more than MW s.v.: ?the first part (of a verse), first word Br. &c. &c.? right now. (The first p?da of a verse being what traditionally served to identify it, hence its lemma.) > are people comfortable with then using an indigenous term with > extended semantics I would rather not. What I currently do is use ?lemma quotation? for prat?ka proper and ?quotation? for other quotations. Not elegant, but I guess it could be whittled down to just ?lemma? (prat?ka) and ?quotation? (not prat?ka). What we really need, however, is a three-way distinction between (1) root-text lemma, (2) other quotation of root text material, and (3) external quotation from somewhere else than the root text. The extended use of ?prat?ka? in Western scholarship is probably partly due to the fact that it handily distinguishes (1) and (2) from (3). Cheers, Stefan -- Stefan Baums Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Sun May 24 08:35:46 2009 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Sun, 24 May 09 03:35:46 -0500 Subject: The Film Adi Shankaracharya In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086377.23782.9795230713609392242.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 667 Lines: 22 I saw it many years ago, but I recall that my impression was that it followed a simplified version of the story-line of Saaya.na-Maadhava's Zrii-ZaNkara-Digvijaya and that, for all intents and purposes, it treated the brahmanical milieu of Kerala as not needing much social-historical adjustment (which, for all I know, may be roughly the truth). (For the flip-side of this view of brahmanism down south, there's always Anathamurthy's novel Samskara and the film Girish Karnad based on it...) Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Sun May 24 09:36:30 2009 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Sun, 24 May 09 04:36:30 -0500 Subject: On the technical term "prat=?utf-8?Q?=C4=ABka"?= In-Reply-To: <4A1910AB.1000202@univie.ac.at> Message-ID: <161227086389.23782.9232103981890741264.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 525 Lines: 20 On the questions raised in connection with commentarial forms, it is now useful to consult Tubb and Boose's excellent _Scholastic Sanskrit: A Manual for Students_, esp. ch. 10. Pratiika is defined on p. 152 (the index mistakenly gives 150) as just "the first word or two, of the passage in question." This seems to correspond with traditional usage. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Sun May 24 07:58:10 2009 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Sun, 24 May 09 09:58:10 +0200 Subject: The Film Adi Shankaracharya Message-ID: <161227086370.23782.15249293113161498554.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 732 Lines: 22 Dear Colleagues, I've just run across, entirely by accident, the feature film Adi Shankaracharya, which boasts that it is the first (maybe only?) feature film in Sanskrit. Has this film been discussed somewhere by indologists, or others especially from the point of view of the Sanskrit? I confess I only watched a few minutes of it, and while there's a lot of chanting of classical texts, there is also some speaking ("conversational Sanskrit?") as well (is this the place to confess?--thank goodness for the subtitles!). I am also curious whether the film-makers tried to get the cultural contexts right.... Best regards, Jonathan Silk -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT Sun May 24 08:42:18 2009 From: birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Birgit Kellner) Date: Sun, 24 May 09 10:42:18 +0200 Subject: The Film Adi Shankaracharya In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086381.23782.17256291510422789896.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1570 Lines: 39 Jonathan Silk wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > I've just run across, entirely by accident, the feature film Adi > Shankaracharya, which boasts that it is the first (maybe only?) feature film > in Sanskrit. Has this film been discussed somewhere by indologists, or > others especially from the point of view of the Sanskrit? I confess I only > watched a few minutes of it, and while there's a lot of chanting of > classical texts, there is also some speaking ("conversational Sanskrit?") as > well (is this the place to confess?--thank goodness for the subtitles!). I > am also curious whether the film-makers tried to get the cultural contexts > right.... > > Best regards, Jonathan Silk > Jonathan, the "Encyclopedia of Indian Cinema" (Willemen/Rajadhyaksha) also has this as the first Indian film made in Sanskrit. The encyclopedia entry tells the plot, and continues: "Continuing his effort after "Hamsa Geethe" (1975) towards a brahminical revivalism, Iyer claimed to have made the film in Sanskrit to do justice to the abstraction of Shankara's philosophical thought. The film does away with the miracle scenes typical of the genre and deploys several symbolic figures (e.g. death and wisdom are both personified). The extensive musical track consists of Vedic chants. Iyer went on to make two more Saint films featuring two of Shankara's main disciples, Madhavacharya (Kannada, 1986) and Shri Ramanujacharya (Tamil, 1989). The film did not get a commercial release in India but apparently did very well in foreign markets." (p. 425) Best, Birgit From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Sun May 24 09:15:14 2009 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Sun, 24 May 09 11:15:14 +0200 Subject: The Film Adi Shankaracharya In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086384.23782.16592188511348955368.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 888 Lines: 29 Am 24.05.2009 um 09:58 schrieb Jonathan Silk: > I've just run across, entirely by accident, the feature film Adi > Shankaracharya, which boasts that it is the first (maybe only?) > feature film > in Sanskrit. Has this film been discussed somewhere by indologists, or > others especially from the point of view of the Sanskrit? There is a German Ph.D. thesis on this film: Mangold, Sylvia: ?di ?a?kar?c?rya? : G. V. Iyers Filmkommentar zur Religionsphilosophie ?a?karas. - Frankfurt am Main [et al.] : Lang, 1994. - XII, 248 p. - (Theion ; 4). - ISBN 3-631-47352-4 Frankfurt (Main), Univ., Diss., 1993 By the way, the complete movie is available on Google Video: URL: All the best Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Abteilung f?r Indologie Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn From birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT Sun May 24 09:17:31 2009 From: birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Birgit Kellner) Date: Sun, 24 May 09 11:17:31 +0200 Subject: On the technical term "prat=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=ABka"?= Message-ID: <161227086386.23782.17078666878364362570.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 736 Lines: 21 Dear all, the recent query by Petra Kieffer-P?lz regarding certain features of commentaries reminded me of a question I had meant to ask here for quite a while: scholars often use the technical term "prat?ka" to refer to each and every word of a root-text that a commentary picks up. This, I was once told, is inaccurate, for the indigenous use of "prat?ka" is limited only to the words of the root-text taken up at the very beginning of the commentary section that is concerned with it. Is this correct? If so, are people comfortable with then using an indigenous term with extended semantics, or would you rather prefer using an English neologism (or, say, the classicist "lemma") instead? Best regards, Birgit Kellner From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Sun May 24 10:01:50 2009 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Sun, 24 May 09 12:01:50 +0200 Subject: On the technical term "pra t=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=ABka"?= In-Reply-To: <20090524094405.GA12998@ubuntu> Message-ID: <161227086398.23782.12089457652582147146.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 535 Lines: 23 Not to complicate matters, but while Stefan suggests: What we really need, > however, is a three-way distinction between (1) root-text lemma, > (2) other quotation of root text material, and (3) external > quotation from somewhere else than the root text. Would not it be helpful to either distinguish 3 & 4, or 3a 3b, namely at least in the Buddhist case (but I imagine elsewhere too) between scriptural and ??stric quotation? Jonathan -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From veerankp at GMAIL.COM Sun May 24 08:04:35 2009 From: veerankp at GMAIL.COM (Veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Sun, 24 May 09 13:34:35 +0530 Subject: The Film Adi Shankaracharya In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086373.23782.1588760305151937886.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1320 Lines: 42 i do not know about discssion on it. but it is not the only sankrit cinema. G.V. Aiyer the director of Adi Shankaracharya did many such things. Ramanujacharya, Madhvacharya, Bhagavadgita. recent film in samskrit is something based on candragupta and made by some jaipur based director On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Jonathan Silk wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > I've just run across, entirely by accident, the feature film Adi > Shankaracharya, which boasts that it is the first (maybe only?) feature > film > in Sanskrit. Has this film been discussed somewhere by indologists, or > others especially from the point of view of the Sanskrit? I confess I only > watched a few minutes of it, and while there's a lot of chanting of > classical texts, there is also some speaking ("conversational Sanskrit?") > as > well (is this the place to confess?--thank goodness for the subtitles!). I > am also curious whether the film-makers tried to get the cultural contexts > right.... > > Best regards, Jonathan Silk > -- > J. Silk > Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden > Postbus 9515 > 2300 RA Leiden > Netherlands > -- Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi Head, Dept of Darshanas, Yoganandacharya Bhavan, Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026. From mark.allon at USYD.EDU.AU Mon May 25 01:29:52 2009 From: mark.allon at USYD.EDU.AU (Mark Allon) Date: Mon, 25 May 09 11:29:52 +1000 Subject: Zeitschriften der DMG digital In-Reply-To: <78D7951C-4127-4429-95B2-DE5AB466AAEF@t-online.de> Message-ID: <161227086401.23782.7093432434136786844.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1333 Lines: 47 Dear all, You may already know this, but you can produce a pdf by the following method: save each page as a JPEG (right click > Save image as > JPEG), then convert these to pdfs and stitch them together. Bit time consuming, but better than nothing. Regards Mark Dr Mark Allon Chair, Department of Indian Subcontinental Studies University of Sydney Brennan MacCallum Building A18 Sydney NSW 2006, Australia Phone 02-93513891; fax 02-93512319 -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of petra kieffer-P?lz Sent: Sunday, 19 April 2009 8:01 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Zeitschriften der DMG digital Am 18.04.2009 um 20:08 schrieb Dominik Wujastyk: > > > Yes, I tried this, but what got saved on the disk was the html > wrapper, without the digital image of the page. But since you've > had success, there must be some way round it on a PC (winXP) too. In saving a page one is asked whether one wants to save only the frame, only the text or the whole website, etc.. The page of the respective article is only saved if you choose "complete website". At least that's the way I could save some articles. Best Petra Kieffer-P?lz ************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2 99423 Weimar Germany Tel. 03643/770447 kiepue at t-online.de From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Mon May 25 10:28:55 2009 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Mon, 25 May 09 12:28:55 +0200 Subject: Anyone for lexicography? Message-ID: <161227086405.23782.16797582079479436489.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 230 Lines: 11 A colleague has asked me to spread the word about a new European Masters course in lexicography beginning this year. http://www.atilf.fr/atilf/divers/Master_EMLex_Nancy.pdf Dominic Goodall Ecole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon May 25 18:57:43 2009 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Mon, 25 May 09 13:57:43 -0500 Subject: A. K. Chatterjee In-Reply-To: <20090524094405.GA12998@ubuntu> Message-ID: <161227086407.23782.18170709744677541121.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 460 Lines: 18 I would be grateful for any information any of you may have regarding what became of Prof. A. K. Chatterjee (Benares Hindu University), noted scholar of Yogacara Buddhist philosophy, following his retirement (about 20 years ago) from BHU. with thanks in advance for your kind attention, Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK Tue May 26 15:23:25 2009 From: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 26 May 09 17:23:25 +0200 Subject: Zeitschriften der DMG digital In-Reply-To: <2A050F71F50A0E4DA87B7DA81A57EE9811EDCF@EXPRSV05.mcs.usyd.edu.au> Message-ID: <161227086410.23782.17060554809132956246.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1787 Lines: 66 The managers of the ZDMG digital edition website have announced that they will be providing PDF download facilities, certainly for pages, and if possible also for individual articles. It is in the pipeline. Best, -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk International Institute of Asian Studies http://iias.nl long term email address: wujastyk at gmail.com On Mon, 25 May 2009, Mark Allon wrote: > Dear all, > > You may already know this, but you can produce a pdf by the following method: save each page as a JPEG (right click > Save image as > JPEG), then convert these to pdfs and stitch them together. Bit time consuming, but better than nothing. > > Regards > Mark > > Dr Mark Allon > Chair, Department of Indian Subcontinental Studies > University of Sydney > Brennan MacCallum Building A18 > Sydney NSW 2006, Australia > Phone 02-93513891; fax 02-93512319 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of petra kieffer-P?lz > Sent: Sunday, 19 April 2009 8:01 PM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: Zeitschriften der DMG digital > > Am 18.04.2009 um 20:08 schrieb Dominik Wujastyk: > >> >> >> Yes, I tried this, but what got saved on the disk was the html >> wrapper, without the digital image of the page. But since you've >> had success, there must be some way round it on a PC (winXP) too. > > In saving a page one is asked whether one wants to save only the > frame, only the text or the whole website, etc.. The page of the > respective article is only saved if you choose "complete website". At > least that's the way I could save some articles. > > Best > Petra Kieffer-P?lz > > ************** > Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz > Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2 > 99423 Weimar > Germany > Tel. 03643/770447 > kiepue at t-online.de > From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Tue May 26 16:14:27 2009 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Tue, 26 May 09 18:14:27 +0200 Subject: Caraka-Samhita, English translation - help requested Message-ID: <161227086414.23782.17035798603269853855.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3532 Lines: 125 The first volume with parts 1-32 of Kisari Mohan Ganguli's English translation of the Caraka-Samhita can now be downloaded from the GRETIL e-library (address see below). Volume 2 with parts 33-60 is in the pipeline, but will take some time due to the poor print quality of the original, which hampers the recognition rate of the background text of both e-books. Unfortunately, this library has never received the remaining parts (61-68) of Ganguli's translation. Would someone be so kind as to tell me from where good copies or scans can be ordered so I can eventually complete the e-book? [By the way, Ganguli's translation is often ascribed to the publisher, Avinash Chandra Kaviratna - much like Ganguli's translation of the Mahabharata, which is usually ascribed to Pratap Candra Roy.] Thanks in advance, Reinhold Gr?nendahl ________________________________________________ Dr. Reinhold Gruenendahl Niedersaechsische Staats- und Universitaetsbibliothek Fachreferat sued- und suedostasiatische Philologien (Dept. of Indology) 37070 Goettingen, Germany Tel (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 52 83 gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de FACH-INFORMATIONEN INDOLOGIE, GOETTINGEN: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindolo.htm In English: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindole.htm GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm GRETIL e-library: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gr_elib.htm ________________________________ Von: Indology im Auftrag von Dominik Wujastyk Gesendet: Di 26.05.2009 17:23 An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Betreff: Re: Zeitschriften der DMG digital The managers of the ZDMG digital edition website have announced that they will be providing PDF download facilities, certainly for pages, and if possible also for individual articles. It is in the pipeline. Best, -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk International Institute of Asian Studies http://iias.nl long term email address: wujastyk at gmail.com On Mon, 25 May 2009, Mark Allon wrote: > Dear all, > > You may already know this, but you can produce a pdf by the following method: save each page as a JPEG (right click > Save image as > JPEG), then convert these to pdfs and stitch them together. Bit time consuming, but better than nothing. > > Regards > Mark > > Dr Mark Allon > Chair, Department of Indian Subcontinental Studies > University of Sydney > Brennan MacCallum Building A18 > Sydney NSW 2006, Australia > Phone 02-93513891; fax 02-93512319 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of petra kieffer-P?lz > Sent: Sunday, 19 April 2009 8:01 PM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: Zeitschriften der DMG digital > > Am 18.04.2009 um 20:08 schrieb Dominik Wujastyk: > >> >> >> Yes, I tried this, but what got saved on the disk was the html >> wrapper, without the digital image of the page. But since you've >> had success, there must be some way round it on a PC (winXP) too. > > In saving a page one is asked whether one wants to save only the > frame, only the text or the whole website, etc.. The page of the > respective article is only saved if you choose "complete website". At > least that's the way I could save some articles. > > Best > Petra Kieffer-P?lz > > ************** > Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz > Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2 > 99423 Weimar > Germany > Tel. 03643/770447 > kiepue at t-online.de > From ingeardagum at YAHOO.CO.UK Tue May 26 20:32:10 2009 From: ingeardagum at YAHOO.CO.UK (Benjamin Slade) Date: Tue, 26 May 09 20:32:10 +0000 Subject: [live stream conference announcement] Watch ILLS 1: LOL streaming online! (29-31 May 2009) Message-ID: <161227086416.23782.12819099565697761630.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2122 Lines: 54 Below is the announcement concerning the live stream of the upcoming first meeting of the Illinois Language and Linguistics Society [ILLS 1] (http://www.linguistics.uiuc.edu/ILLS). There will be three Indology-related talks: (1) 'Number Sensitive Items and Agreement: A Case from Hindi' [Archna Bhatia, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign] (2) 'The Grand Strategy of Politeness among Bengalis on Orkut' [Anupam Das, Indiana University Bloomington] (3) 'Influence of English on Hindi Embedded Relative Clauses' [Vandana Puri, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign] Please forward as appropriate. See below for announcment: --------------------------------- To researchers in linguistics, computer-mediated communication, and related fields: This coming weekend, May 29-31, 2009, the Linguistics Student Organization at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign is proud to present Illinois Language and Linguistics Society 1: Language Online. Through a partnership with ATLAS Digital Media, we are now able to offer a live stream of the conference online at http://www.linguistics.uiuc.edu/ILLS. Tune in this weekend to participate in this exciting new conference! Online participants will have the opportunity to submit questions in real time for the moderator to convey to the presenters. Please take a moment to have a look at our full program, available at our website: http://www.linguistics.uiuc.edu/ILLS Thanks, and hope to see you online (or in person?) next weekend! For more information, please don't hesitate to contact me: bslade at illinois.edu, or my co-organiser, Matt Garley: mgarley2 at illinois.edu. ------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Slade Dept. of Linguistics University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign email: bslade at illinois.edu website: http://www.jnanam.net/slade/ office: FLB 4108 office hours: M 1-3 and by appt. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ???? ?????????? ?? ?????? 'The gods love the obscure.' (?atapathabr?ma?a 6.1.1.2) From james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM Wed May 27 02:44:28 2009 From: james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM (James Hartzell) Date: Wed, 27 May 09 04:44:28 +0200 Subject: Pure LIght Dharani Sutra Message-ID: <161227086419.23782.6312398326510854213.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 230 Lines: 11 Hi might someone know of an electronic version of the text and a translation of the Mugujeonggwang Daedaranigyeong (Pure Light Dharani Sutra) from the Bulguk-sa pagoda in Korea, the text found in 1966? Regards James Hartzell From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Wed May 27 12:09:33 2009 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Wed, 27 May 09 05:09:33 -0700 Subject: Ageusia In-Reply-To: <793_1243404266_1243404266_4B157E39552741A591C2999FEDF4269B@zen> Message-ID: <161227086467.23782.16046585962346671101.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 516 Lines: 18 arocaka is what I have come across in this sense. Page 87 of vol. 1 of Aayurvediiya Mahaako;sa ... by Venii-maadhava-;saastrii Jo;sii and Naaraaya.na Harii Jo;sii (Mumbai: Mahaaraastra Raajya Saahitya aa.ni Sa.msk.rti Ma.n.da.la, 1968) confirms this with several citations from Skt texts. ashok aklujkar On 5/26/09 11:06 PM, "Stephen Hodge" wrote: > Does anybody familiar with Ayurvedic material know if there is a Sanskrit > term for "aguesia" ~ the inability to taste ? From vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET Wed May 27 09:47:06 2009 From: vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Wed, 27 May 09 05:47:06 -0400 Subject: Ageusia Message-ID: <161227086454.23782.4960276337497130744.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 164 Lines: 9 Hi Stephen, I don't know whether this occurs in medical contexts, but a term for "not tasted, untasted, not enjoyed" is anasvadita (an-asvadita). Dan Lusthaus From vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET Wed May 27 09:53:37 2009 From: vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Wed, 27 May 09 05:53:37 -0400 Subject: Ageusia Message-ID: <161227086457.23782.6266250814486078003.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 426 Lines: 21 Sorry -- the diacriticals disappeared: anasvadita (an-asvadita). Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Lusthaus" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 5:47 AM Subject: Re: Ageusia > Hi Stephen, > > I don't know whether this occurs in medical contexts, but a term for "not > tasted, untasted, not enjoyed" is anasvadita (an-asvadita). > > Dan Lusthaus > From vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET Wed May 27 10:22:14 2009 From: vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Wed, 27 May 09 06:22:14 -0400 Subject: Ageusia Message-ID: <161227086460.23782.1965654415663708611.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 201 Lines: 10 Again -- apologies. The diacriticals are there when I hit send, but not when the message comes out the other end. Not sure why. One more try... Just in case: an-AsvAdita (anasvadita) Dan Lusthaus From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM Wed May 27 06:06:48 2009 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge) Date: Wed, 27 May 09 07:06:48 +0100 Subject: Ageusia Message-ID: <161227086437.23782.10471542322316342894.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 164 Lines: 10 Dear all, Does anybody familiar with Ayurvedic material know if there is a Sanskrit term for "aguesia" ~ the inability to taste ? Best wishes, Stephen Hodge From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Wed May 27 05:43:00 2009 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Wed, 27 May 09 07:43:00 +0200 Subject: AW: Caraka-Samhita, English translation - help requested Message-ID: <161227086433.23782.8419903416983821919.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 36 Lines: 10 Problem solved! Thanks R.G. From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Wed May 27 03:35:41 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 27 May 09 09:05:41 +0530 Subject: The Film Adi Shankaracharya Message-ID: <161227086422.23782.5392263866265114523.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1648 Lines: 41 (For the flip-side of this view of brahmanism down south, there's always Anathamurthy's novel Samskara and the film Girish Karnad based on it...) There have been many films on this and in many Indian languages. Gora (dir. Naresh Mitra, 1930, author Tagore(1912),Bengali) is an early example. In the nineties?the Hindi version of a Kerala film/story Kayar ?was serially prsented in the TV. Satyajit Ray's Devi was made in the late fifties, as far as I remember. There are many other similar films made around 1950 particularly those on the Bengali novelist Sarat Chandra Chattopadhyay's critical novels like 'Bamuner meye'. DB --- On Sun, 24/5/09, mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU wrote: From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Subject: Re: The Film Adi Shankaracharya To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Sunday, 24 May, 2009, 2:05 PM I saw it many years ago, but I recall that my impression was that it followed a simplified version of the story-line of Saaya.na-Maadhava's Zrii-ZaNkara-Digvijaya and that, for all intents and purposes, it treated the brahmanical milieu of Kerala as not needing much social-historical adjustment (which, for all I know, may be roughly the truth). (For the flip-side of this view of brahmanism down south, there's always Anathamurthy's novel Samskara and the film Girish Karnad based on it...) Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris Cricket on your mind? Visit the ultimate cricket website. Enter http://beta.cricket.yahoo.com From d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK Wed May 27 07:59:00 2009 From: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 27 May 09 09:59:00 +0200 Subject: Ageusia In-Reply-To: <4B157E39552741A591C2999FEDF4269B@zen> Message-ID: <161227086441.23782.10461553714129625174.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 457 Lines: 25 I believe there's a condition called at?pti, which is a kind of inability to get satisfaction from food. -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk International Institute of Asian Studies http://iias.nl long term email address: wujastyk at gmail.com On Wed, 27 May 2009, Stephen Hodge wrote: > Dear all, > > Does anybody familiar with Ayurvedic material know if there is a Sanskrit > term for "aguesia" ~ the inability to taste ? > > Best wishes, > Stephen Hodge From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Wed May 27 04:32:23 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 27 May 09 10:02:23 +0530 Subject: Zeitschriften der DMG digital Message-ID: <161227086426.23782.10141137802127983510.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2113 Lines: 65 To Mr.Mark Allon ? This is good advice. But it is not clear which type of file is meant as the 'convertee' and in which system. Are there not simpler ways of converting?word files of any system (Note Book, Wordpad, iLEAP etc, but not MS Dos) when the writer is installed in XP? One just 'Ctrl+p's and selects the pdf.option.? Are?you speaking of Mac? It may be that my question is born of ignorance. Please do not hesitate to rectify. DB --- On Mon, 25/5/09, Mark Allon wrote: From: Mark Allon Subject: Re: Zeitschriften der DMG digital To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 25 May, 2009, 6:59 AM Dear all, You may already know this, but you can produce a pdf by the following method: save each page as a JPEG (right click > Save image as > JPEG), then convert these to pdfs and stitch them together. Bit time consuming, but better than nothing. Regards Mark Dr Mark Allon Chair, Department of Indian Subcontinental Studies University of Sydney Brennan MacCallum Building A18 Sydney NSW 2006, Australia Phone 02-93513891; fax 02-93512319 -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of petra kieffer-P?lz Sent: Sunday, 19 April 2009 8:01 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Zeitschriften der DMG digital Am 18.04.2009 um 20:08 schrieb Dominik Wujastyk: > > > Yes, I tried this, but what got saved on the disk was the html? > wrapper, without the digital image of the page.? But since you've? > had success, there must be some way round it on a PC (winXP) too. In saving a page one is asked whether one wants to save only the? frame, only the text or the whole website, etc.. The page of the? respective article is only saved if you choose "complete website". At? least that's the way I could save some articles. Best Petra Kieffer-P?lz ************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2 99423 Weimar Germany Tel. 03643/770447 kiepue at t-online.de Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with Yahoo! India Travel http://in.travel.yahoo.com/ From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Wed May 27 04:32:23 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 27 May 09 10:02:23 +0530 Subject: Zeitschriften der DMG digital Message-ID: <161227086445.23782.15426313695766094405.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2112 Lines: 65 To Mr.Mark Allon ? This is good advice. But it is not clear which type of file is meant as the 'convertee' and in which system. Are there not simpler ways of converting?word files of any system (Note Book, Wordpad, iLEAP etc, but not MS Dos) when the writer is installed in XP? One just 'Ctrl+p's and selects the pdfoption.? Are?you speaking of Mac? It may be that my question is born of ignorance. Please do not hesitate to rectify. DB --- On Mon, 25/5/09, Mark Allon wrote: From: Mark Allon Subject: Re: Zeitschriften der DMG digital To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 25 May, 2009, 6:59 AM Dear all, You may already know this, but you can produce a pdf by the following method: save each page as a JPEG (right click > Save image as > JPEG), then convert these to pdfs and stitch them together. Bit time consuming, but better than nothing. Regards Mark Dr Mark Allon Chair, Department of Indian Subcontinental Studies University of Sydney Brennan MacCallum Building A18 Sydney NSW 2006, Australia Phone 02-93513891; fax 02-93512319 -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of petra kieffer-P?lz Sent: Sunday, 19 April 2009 8:01 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Zeitschriften der DMG digital Am 18.04.2009 um 20:08 schrieb Dominik Wujastyk: > > > Yes, I tried this, but what got saved on the disk was the html? > wrapper, without the digital image of the page.? But since you've? > had success, there must be some way round it on a PC (winXP) too. In saving a page one is asked whether one wants to save only the? frame, only the text or the whole website, etc.. The page of the? respective article is only saved if you choose "complete website". At? least that's the way I could save some articles. Best Petra Kieffer-P?lz ************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2 99423 Weimar Germany Tel. 03643/770447 kiepue at t-online.de Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with Yahoo! India Travel http://in.travel.yahoo.com/ From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Wed May 27 04:55:18 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 27 May 09 10:25:18 +0530 Subject: Caraka-Samhita, English translation - help requested Message-ID: <161227086429.23782.182836852635120647.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4503 Lines: 143 The premier libraries are digitalizing old publications in their possession. The Visva Bharati University at Santiniketan,WB aimed at publications dating before 1924. The task is going on. I have not found it necessary to use the digital library of the VIsva Bharati. But you may enquire at . You may, perhaps, also enquire at the National Library and the Asiatic Society , both at Kolkata. I may enquire at the last mentioned Institute. But, then, ?for any positive result?I have to be at Kolkata that may not happen before mid-June. DB --- On Tue, 26/5/09, Gruenendahl, Reinhold wrote: From: Gruenendahl, Reinhold Subject: Caraka-Samhita, English translation - help requested To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 26 May, 2009, 9:44 PM The first volume with parts 1-32 of Kisari Mohan Ganguli's English translation of the Caraka-Samhita can now be downloaded from the GRETIL e-library (address see below). Volume 2 with parts 33-60 is in the pipeline, but will take some time due to the poor print quality of the original, which hampers the recognition rate of the background text of both e-books. Unfortunately, this library has never received the remaining parts (61-68) of Ganguli's translation. Would someone be so kind as to tell me from where good copies or scans can be ordered so I can eventually complete the e-book? [By the way, Ganguli's translation is often ascribed to the publisher, Avinash Chandra Kaviratna - much like Ganguli's translation of the Mahabharata, which is usually ascribed to Pratap Candra Roy.] Thanks in advance, Reinhold Gr?nendahl ________________________________________________ Dr. Reinhold Gruenendahl Niedersaechsische Staats- und Universitaetsbibliothek Fachreferat sued- und suedostasiatische Philologien (Dept. of Indology) 37070 Goettingen, Germany Tel (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 52 83 gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de FACH-INFORMATIONEN INDOLOGIE, GOETTINGEN: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindolo.htm In English: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindole.htm GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm GRETIL e-library: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gr_elib.htm ________________________________ Von: Indology im Auftrag von Dominik Wujastyk Gesendet: Di 26.05.2009 17:23 An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Betreff: Re: Zeitschriften der DMG digital The managers of the ZDMG digital edition website have announced that they will be providing PDF download facilities, certainly for pages, and if possible also for individual articles.? It is in the pipeline. Best, -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk International Institute of Asian Studies http://iias.nl long term email address: wujastyk at gmail.com On Mon, 25 May 2009, Mark Allon wrote: > Dear all, > > You may already know this, but you can produce a pdf by the following method: save each page as a JPEG (right click > Save image as > JPEG), then convert these to pdfs and stitch them together. Bit time consuming, but better than nothing. > > Regards > Mark > > Dr Mark Allon > Chair, Department of Indian Subcontinental Studies > University of Sydney > Brennan MacCallum Building A18 > Sydney NSW 2006, Australia > Phone 02-93513891; fax 02-93512319 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of petra kieffer-P?lz > Sent: Sunday, 19 April 2009 8:01 PM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: Zeitschriften der DMG digital > > Am 18.04.2009 um 20:08 schrieb Dominik Wujastyk: > >> >> >> Yes, I tried this, but what got saved on the disk was the html >> wrapper, without the digital image of the page.? But since you've >> had success, there must be some way round it on a PC (winXP) too. > > In saving a page one is asked whether one wants to save only the > frame, only the text or the whole website, etc.. The page of the > respective article is only saved if you choose "complete website". At > least that's the way I could save some articles. > > Best > Petra Kieffer-P?lz > > ************** > Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz > Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2 > 99423 Weimar > Germany > Tel. 03643/770447 > kiepue at t-online.de > Bollywood news, movie reviews, film trailers and more! Go to http://in.movies.yahoo.com/ From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Wed May 27 04:55:18 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 27 May 09 10:25:18 +0530 Subject: Caraka-Samhita, English translation - help requested Message-ID: <161227086448.23782.8714435192460090734.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4502 Lines: 143 The premier libraries are digitalizing old publications in their possession The Visva Bharati University at Santiniketan,WB aimed at publications dating before 1924. The task is going on. I have not found it necessary to use the digital library of the VIsva Bharati. But you may enquire at . You may, perhaps, also enquire at the National Library and the Asiatic Society , both at Kolkata. I may enquire at the last mentioned Institute. But, then, ?for any positive result?I have to be at Kolkata that may not happen before mid-June. DB --- On Tue, 26/5/09, Gruenendahl, Reinhold wrote: From: Gruenendahl, Reinhold Subject: Caraka-Samhita, English translation - help requested To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 26 May, 2009, 9:44 PM The first volume with parts 1-32 of Kisari Mohan Ganguli's English translation of the Caraka-Samhita can now be downloaded from the GRETIL e-library (address see below). Volume 2 with parts 33-60 is in the pipeline, but will take some time due to the poor print quality of the original, which hampers the recognition rate of the background text of both e-books. Unfortunately, this library has never received the remaining parts (61-68) of Ganguli's translation. Would someone be so kind as to tell me from where good copies or scans can be ordered so I can eventually complete the e-book? [By the way, Ganguli's translation is often ascribed to the publisher, Avinash Chandra Kaviratna - much like Ganguli's translation of the Mahabharata, which is usually ascribed to Pratap Candra Roy.] Thanks in advance, Reinhold Gr?nendahl ________________________________________________ Dr. Reinhold Gruenendahl Niedersaechsische Staats- und Universitaetsbibliothek Fachreferat sued- und suedostasiatische Philologien (Dept. of Indology) 37070 Goettingen, Germany Tel (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 52 83 gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de FACH-INFORMATIONEN INDOLOGIE, GOETTINGEN: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindolo.htm In English: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindole.htm GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm GRETIL e-library: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gr_elib.htm ________________________________ Von: Indology im Auftrag von Dominik Wujastyk Gesendet: Di 26.05.2009 17:23 An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Betreff: Re: Zeitschriften der DMG digital The managers of the ZDMG digital edition website have announced that they will be providing PDF download facilities, certainly for pages, and if possible also for individual articles.? It is in the pipeline. Best, -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk International Institute of Asian Studies http://iias.nl long term email address: wujastyk at gmail.com On Mon, 25 May 2009, Mark Allon wrote: > Dear all, > > You may already know this, but you can produce a pdf by the following method: save each page as a JPEG (right click > Save image as > JPEG), then convert these to pdfs and stitch them together. Bit time consuming, but better than nothing. > > Regards > Mark > > Dr Mark Allon > Chair, Department of Indian Subcontinental Studies > University of Sydney > Brennan MacCallum Building A18 > Sydney NSW 2006, Australia > Phone 02-93513891; fax 02-93512319 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of petra kieffer-P?lz > Sent: Sunday, 19 April 2009 8:01 PM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: Zeitschriften der DMG digital > > Am 18.04.2009 um 20:08 schrieb Dominik Wujastyk: > >> >> >> Yes, I tried this, but what got saved on the disk was the html >> wrapper, without the digital image of the page.? But since you've >> had success, there must be some way round it on a PC (winXP) too. > > In saving a page one is asked whether one wants to save only the > frame, only the text or the whole website, etc.. The page of the > respective article is only saved if you choose "complete website". At > least that's the way I could save some articles. > > Best > Petra Kieffer-P?lz > > ************** > Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz > Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2 > 99423 Weimar > Germany > Tel. 03643/770447 > kiepue at t-online.de > Bollywood news, movie reviews, film trailers and more! Go to http://in.movies.yahoo.com/ From meulnbld at XS4ALL.NL Wed May 27 09:17:49 2009 From: meulnbld at XS4ALL.NL (G.J. Meulenbeld) Date: Wed, 27 May 09 11:17:49 +0200 Subject: Ageusia Message-ID: <161227086451.23782.15819205838921952249.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 996 Lines: 40 Dear colleague, Ageusia as a distinct syndrome is found in a late ayurvedic text, the Nigha.n.turatnaakara, compiled by Vi.s.nu Vaasudeva Go.dbole and his associates (see on this text my "History of Indian medical literature", IIA, 365--368), bhaag duusraa 401: bhu~njaanasya narasyaanna.m madhuraprabh.rtiin rasaan / rasanaa yan na jaanaati rasaaj~naana.m tad ucyate // Verses on its treatment follow. The same verse on rasaaj~naana, is also found in Vallabhendra's Vaidyacintaama.ni, a text of uncertain date but much earlier (see again IIA, 481--489), chapter 10, p.171 . I hope this will help, best wishes, Jan Meulenbeld ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Hodge" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 8:06 AM Subject: Ageusia > Dear all, > > Does anybody familiar with Ayurvedic material know if there is a Sanskrit > term for "aguesia" ~ the inability to taste ? > > Best wishes, > Stephen Hodge From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Wed May 27 11:22:27 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 27 May 09 16:52:27 +0530 Subject: Ageusia Message-ID: <161227086463.23782.16573791240256696265.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 628 Lines: 24 Local Kavir?jas of Varanasi use the term agnim?ndya or the less technical kshudh?m?ndya meaning absence of appetite DB --- On Wed, 27/5/09, Stephen Hodge wrote: From: Stephen Hodge Subject: Ageusia To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 27 May, 2009, 11:36 AM Dear all, Does anybody familiar with Ayurvedic material know if there is a Sanskrit term for "aguesia" ~ the inability to taste ? Best wishes, Stephen Hodge Bring your gang together. Do your thing. Find your favourite Yahoo! group at http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/ From navadipanyaya at HOTMAIL.COM Thu May 28 14:47:33 2009 From: navadipanyaya at HOTMAIL.COM (JAGANADH GOPINADHAN) Date: Thu, 28 May 09 14:47:33 +0000 Subject: The Film Adi Shankaracharya In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086470.23782.10408659181138558181.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1868 Lines: 57 Another Sanskrit film is "Bhagavatgita". I saw the film in 2002 on the occasion of an International Conference on Bhagavat gits held at Thiruvananthapuram, Kerala. Both films were appeared in the national television channels before 10 or 15 years. JAGANADH.G LINGUIST HDG-LTS C-DAC VELAYAMBALAM THIRUVANANTHAPURAM P-H+91 9895420624 E-MAIL- jaganadh at cdactvm.in,navadipanyaya at hotmail.com/jaganadhg at gmail.com http://sabdabodha.googlepages.com www.malayalammorph.blogspot.com www.malayalamresourceceter.org > Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 11:15:14 +0200 > From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE > Subject: Re: The Film Adi Shankaracharya > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Am 24.05.2009 um 09:58 schrieb Jonathan Silk: > > > I've just run across, entirely by accident, the feature film Adi > > Shankaracharya, which boasts that it is the first (maybe only?) > > feature film > > in Sanskrit. Has this film been discussed somewhere by indologists, or > > others especially from the point of view of the Sanskrit? > > There is a German Ph.D. thesis on this film: > > Mangold, Sylvia: ?di ?a?kar?c?rya? : G. V. Iyers Filmkommentar > zur Religionsphilosophie ?a?karas. - Frankfurt am Main [et al.] : > Lang, 1994. - XII, 248 p. - (Theion ; 4). - ISBN 3-631-47352-4 > Frankfurt (Main), Univ., Diss., 1993 > > By the way, the complete movie is available on Google Video: > URL: > > All the best > Peter Wyzlic > -- > Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften > Abteilung f?r Indologie > Universit?t Bonn > Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 > 53113 Bonn _________________________________________________________________ Live Search extreme As India feels the heat of poll season, get all the info you need on the MSN News Aggregator http://news.in.msn.com/National/indiaelections2009/aggregator/default.aspx From cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET Thu May 28 19:32:21 2009 From: cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET (George Cardona) Date: Thu, 28 May 09 15:32:21 -0400 Subject: The Film Adi Shankaracharya Message-ID: <161227086474.23782.5841801453410737010.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2113 Lines: 63 -----Original Message----- >From: JAGANADH GOPINADHAN >Sent: May 28, 2009 10:47 AM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: Re: The Film Adi Shankaracharya > > >Another Sanskrit film is "Bhagavatgita". I saw the film in 2002 on the occasion of an International Conference on Bhagavat gits held at Thiruvananthapuram, Kerala. >Both films were appeared in the national television channels before 10 or 15 years. > > >JAGANADH.G >LINGUIST >HDG-LTS >C-DAC >VELAYAMBALAM >THIRUVANANTHAPURAM >P-H+91 9895420624 >E-MAIL- jaganadh at cdactvm.in,navadipanyaya at hotmail.com/jaganadhg at gmail.com >http://sabdabodha.googlepages.com >www.malayalammorph.blogspot.com >www.malayalamresourceceter.org > > > >> Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 11:15:14 +0200 >> From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE >> Subject: Re: The Film Adi Shankaracharya >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> >> Am 24.05.2009 um 09:58 schrieb Jonathan Silk: >> >> > I've just run across, entirely by accident, the feature film Adi >> > Shankaracharya, which boasts that it is the first (maybe only?) >> > feature film >> > in Sanskrit. Has this film been discussed somewhere by indologists, or >> > others especially from the point of view of the Sanskrit? >> >> There is a German Ph.D. thesis on this film: >> >> Mangold, Sylvia: ?di ?a?kar?c?rya? : G. V. Iyers Filmkommentar >> zur Religionsphilosophie ?a?karas. - Frankfurt am Main [et al.] : >> Lang, 1994. - XII, 248 p. - (Theion ; 4). - ISBN 3-631-47352-4 >> Frankfurt (Main), Univ., Diss., 1993 >> >> By the way, the complete movie is available on Google Video: >> URL: >> >> All the best >> Peter Wyzlic >> -- >> Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften >> Abteilung f?r Indologie >> Universit?t Bonn >> Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 >> 53113 Bonn > >_________________________________________________________________ >Live Search extreme As India feels the heat of poll season, get all the info you need on the MSN News Aggregator >http://news.in.msn.com/National/indiaelections2009/aggregator/default.aspx From frederick-smith at UIOWA.EDU Thu May 28 22:18:51 2009 From: frederick-smith at UIOWA.EDU (Smith, Frederick M) Date: Thu, 28 May 09 17:18:51 -0500 Subject: Ageusia In-Reply-To: <0CB614EE54B7446BA5516274F01202F5@meulenbeld> Message-ID: <161227086477.23782.3126921984699510802.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1380 Lines: 54 Also: arasajJataa Caraka (Suutrasthaana) 1.28.8: tatra rasaadiSu sthaaneSu prakupitaanaaM doSaaNaaM yasmin sthaane ye ye vyaadhayaH saMbhavanti taaMstaan yathaavad anuvyaakhyaasyaamaH // 1.28.9: azraddhaa caaruciz caasyavairasyam arasajJataa / hRllaaso gauravaM tandraa saaGgamardo jvarastamaH // Regards, Fred Smith On 5/27/09 4:17 AM, "G.J. Meulenbeld" wrote: Dear colleague, Ageusia as a distinct syndrome is found in a late ayurvedic text, the Nigha.n.turatnaakara, compiled by Vi.s.nu Vaasudeva Go.dbole and his associates (see on this text my "History of Indian medical literature", IIA, 365--368), bhaag duusraa 401: bhu~njaanasya narasyaanna.m madhuraprabh.rtiin rasaan / rasanaa yan na jaanaati rasaaj~naana.m tad ucyate // Verses on its treatment follow. The same verse on rasaaj~naana, is also found in Vallabhendra's Vaidyacintaama.ni, a text of uncertain date but much earlier (see again IIA, 481--489), chapter 10, p.171 . I hope this will help, best wishes, Jan Meulenbeld ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Hodge" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 8:06 AM Subject: Ageusia > Dear all, > > Does anybody familiar with Ayurvedic material know if there is a Sanskrit > term for "aguesia" ~ the inability to taste ? > > Best wishes, > Stephen Hodge From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Fri May 29 02:33:56 2009 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Thu, 28 May 09 19:33:56 -0700 Subject: Ageusia In-Reply-To: <28917_1243552011_1243552011_A9FE2F7A576B4A408058FE253DE032DF@zen> Message-ID: <161227086484.23782.13344487733970445313.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1210 Lines: 27 Stephen, It would be better to share the passage with your potential helpers along with your translation of it, however tentative the translation may be. The context you have specified now suggests that a search is medical texts was unnecessary. Taste buds damaged by drinking too hot a liquid or eating too hot a morsel of food may make one loose taste, probably partially and temporarily, without generating a medical condition. Only a more extensive statement on the context coming from you, accompanied by a faithful translation of the rest of the words in the passage, will tell us if we should think of possibilities such as dagdha-jihva. ashok aklujkar On 5/28/09 4:09 PM, "Stephen Hodge" wrote: > My context specifically highlights the loss of taste > aspect. The sources (Tibetan and Chinese, as usual) I am investigating > suggest an underlying term that should comprise "burnt / parched / scorched > + lips / tongue". This most obviously suggests > vi'su.ka-jihvaa-taaluuna-ka.n.tha, but I am not sure if this also implies > the loss of taste that is required contextually. I had wondered if there > was another Skt term that could have been used here. From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM Thu May 28 23:09:11 2009 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge) Date: Fri, 29 May 09 00:09:11 +0100 Subject: Ageusia Message-ID: <161227086481.23782.7819772977998562408.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 745 Lines: 19 Dear all, I thank everybody who answered my query and made useful suggestions. It is interesting that there is often no clear distinction between loss of taste and loss of appetite ~ though naturally I suppose the latter does not presuppose the former. My context specifically highlights the loss of taste aspect. The sources (Tibetan and Chinese, as usual) I am investigating suggest an underlying term that should comprise "burnt / parched / scorched + lips / tongue". This most obviously suggests vi'su.ka-jihvaa-taaluuna-ka.n.tha, but I am not sure if this also implies the loss of taste that is required contextually. I had wondered if there was another Skt term that could have been used here. Best wishes, Stephen Hodge From joseph.walser at TUFTS.EDU Fri May 29 13:25:10 2009 From: joseph.walser at TUFTS.EDU (Joseph Walser) Date: Fri, 29 May 09 09:25:10 -0400 Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086497.23782.12737876885319771995.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 690 Lines: 29 How about the Prasannapada? -j Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > In the last decade or two, a substantial amount of Sanskrit literature > has become available in e-text form. Veda, Mahabharata, Ramayana, > Mahabhasya, Astadhyayi, Kasika, Puranas, many Tantras, dharmasastra > and jyotisa texts, Buddhist literature, much else. > > What next? What text is there in Devanagari script that hasn't been > input yet, and that you would dearly like to have as an e-text? I > wonder if we can put together a prioritized list? > > Best, > Dominik Wujastyk -- Joseph Walser Associate Professor Department of Religion Tufts University 126 Curtis Street Medford, MA 02155 Office: 617 627-2322 From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA Fri May 29 14:00:57 2009 From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl) Date: Fri, 29 May 09 10:00:57 -0400 Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086508.23782.13520006003098979782.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1069 Lines: 35 Dear Dominik and all, Is there somewhere a list which kAvyas, mahAkAvyas and dramas are accessible as e-texts? In particular, it would be very useful if all the major dramas WITh the Prakrit parts (and chAyA) could be easily accessible. Also, judging by the programmes of the last three World Sanskrit Conferences it seems to me that les belles lettres are being neglected in favour of grammar, philosophy, epics and Puranas. Best regards to all Stella Sandahl -- Stella Sandahl ssandahl at sympatico.ca On 29-May-09, at 8:47 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > In the last decade or two, a substantial amount of Sanskrit > literature has become available in e-text form. Veda, Mahabharata, > Ramayana, Mahabhasya, Astadhyayi, Kasika, Puranas, many Tantras, > dharmasastra and jyotisa texts, Buddhist literature, much else. > > What next? What text is there in Devanagari script that hasn't > been input yet, and that you would dearly like to have as an e- > text? I wonder if we can put together a prioritized list? > > Best, > Dominik Wujastyk > From victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL Fri May 29 08:22:29 2009 From: victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL (victor van bijlert) Date: Fri, 29 May 09 10:22:29 +0200 Subject: The Film Adi Shankaracharya In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086488.23782.14890360793174927336.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2294 Lines: 67 Is there also a link online to this film. I was able to download the Sankaracharya film from Google videos and watch it on the ipod. Many thanks for these interesting discussions Victor van Bijlert -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens JAGANADH GOPINADHAN Verzonden: donderdag 28 mei 2009 16:48 Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Onderwerp: Re: The Film Adi Shankaracharya Another Sanskrit film is "Bhagavatgita". I saw the film in 2002 on the occasion of an International Conference on Bhagavat gits held at Thiruvananthapuram, Kerala. Both films were appeared in the national television channels before 10 or 15 years. JAGANADH.G LINGUIST HDG-LTS C-DAC VELAYAMBALAM THIRUVANANTHAPURAM P-H+91 9895420624 E-MAIL- jaganadh at cdactvm.in,navadipanyaya at hotmail.com/jaganadhg at gmail.com http://sabdabodha.googlepages.com www.malayalammorph.blogspot.com www.malayalamresourceceter.org > Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 11:15:14 +0200 > From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE > Subject: Re: The Film Adi Shankaracharya > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Am 24.05.2009 um 09:58 schrieb Jonathan Silk: > > > I've just run across, entirely by accident, the feature film Adi > > Shankaracharya, which boasts that it is the first (maybe only?) > > feature film > > in Sanskrit. Has this film been discussed somewhere by indologists, or > > others especially from the point of view of the Sanskrit? > > There is a German Ph.D. thesis on this film: > > Mangold, Sylvia: ?di ?a?kar?c?rya? : G. V. Iyers Filmkommentar > zur Religionsphilosophie ?a?karas. - Frankfurt am Main [et al.] : > Lang, 1994. - XII, 248 p. - (Theion ; 4). - ISBN 3-631-47352-4 > Frankfurt (Main), Univ., Diss., 1993 > > By the way, the complete movie is available on Google Video: > URL: > > All the best > Peter Wyzlic > -- > Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften > Abteilung f?r Indologie > Universit?t Bonn > Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 > 53113 Bonn _________________________________________________________________ Live Search extreme As India feels the heat of poll season, get all the info you need on the MSN News Aggregator http://news.in.msn.com/National/indiaelections2009/aggregator/default.aspx From navadipanyaya at HOTMAIL.COM Fri May 29 13:16:01 2009 From: navadipanyaya at HOTMAIL.COM (JAGANADH GOPINADHAN) Date: Fri, 29 May 09 13:16:01 +0000 Subject: Sanskrit IAST data entry tool In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086494.23782.717320454400059351.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 776 Lines: 30 Dear friends Which is the best tool to data entry Sanskrit text in IAST from(Unicode). e.g Text with diacritics. (A????gah?daya) Please provide the name of font and tool can be used to enter Devanagari text in the above given format. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________ JAGANADH.G LINGUIST HDG-LTS C-DAC VELAYAMBALAM THIRUVANANTHAPURAM P-H+91 9895420624 E-MAIL- jaganadh at cdactvm.in,navadipanyaya at hotmail.com/jaganadhg at gmail.com http://sabdabodha.googlepages.com www.malayalammorph.blogspot.com www.malayalamresourceceter.org _________________________________________________________________ Planning the weekend ? Here?s what is happening in your town. http://msn.asklaila.com/events/ From d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK Fri May 29 12:47:26 2009 From: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 29 May 09 14:47:26 +0200 Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text Message-ID: <161227086491.23782.11550854300071959113.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 476 Lines: 14 In the last decade or two, a substantial amount of Sanskrit literature has become available in e-text form. Veda, Mahabharata, Ramayana, Mahabhasya, Astadhyayi, Kasika, Puranas, many Tantras, dharmasastra and jyotisa texts, Buddhist literature, much else. What next? What text is there in Devanagari script that hasn't been input yet, and that you would dearly like to have as an e-text? I wonder if we can put together a prioritized list? Best, Dominik Wujastyk From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Fri May 29 13:58:31 2009 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Fri, 29 May 09 15:58:31 +0200 Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text In-Reply-To: <97916.95844.qm@web8606.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227086504.23782.4130729619921067636.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1830 Lines: 62 Just two notes: I believe there are etexts of the Prasannapada (I have one very old one--I won't vouch for its quality), and now that we have several versions of the Pali tipitaka electronically, the value of scanning an edition like the Nalanda one is highly questionable. I mention these cases only to emphasize that if there is going to be effort put into something like this, it behooves those who will be involved to do some careful homework first. Very best, and lots of energy! jonathan On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya < dbhattacharya2004 at yahoo.co.in> wrote: > E-publications can serve their purpose the best when out-of-print/ or > difficult-to-purchase books are made available thru them. Examples > 1.The Nalanda edition of the Tripitaka in Devnagari > 2.Aryabhatiyam with Bhaskara 1 and Parameshvara > Best for all > DB > > > --- On Fri, 29/5/09, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > > From: Dominik Wujastyk > Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Friday, 29 May, 2009, 6:17 PM > > > In the last decade or two, a substantial amount of Sanskrit literature has > become available in e-text form. Veda, Mahabharata, Ramayana, Mahabhasya, > Astadhyayi, Kasika, Puranas, many Tantras, dharmasastra and jyotisa texts, > Buddhist literature, much else. > > What next? What text is there in Devanagari script that hasn't been input > yet, and that you would dearly like to have as an e-text? I wonder if we > can put together a prioritized list? > > Best, > Dominik Wujastyk > > > > Own a website.Get an unlimited package.Pay next to nothing.*Go to > http://in.business.yahoo.com/ > -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From sellmers at GMX.DE Fri May 29 14:14:43 2009 From: sellmers at GMX.DE (Sven Sellmer) Date: Fri, 29 May 09 16:14:43 +0200 Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086512.23782.4646270818747134862.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1355 Lines: 43 I agree with Stella Sandahl: dramas and k?vya, if possible accompanied by commentaries, should be among the priorities. The only list I know of is the GRETIL one. Best wishes, Sven Sellmer Am 29.05.2009 um 16:00 schrieb Stella Sandahl: > Dear Dominik and all, > Is there somewhere a list which kAvyas, mahAkAvyas and dramas are > accessible as e-texts? > In particular, it would be very useful if all the major dramas WITh > the Prakrit parts (and chAyA) could be easily accessible. > > Also, judging by the programmes of the last three World Sanskrit > Conferences it seems to me that les belles lettres are being neglected > in favour of grammar, philosophy, epics and Puranas. > Best regards to all > Stella Sandahl > > -- > Stella Sandahl > ssandahl at sympatico.ca > > > > On 29-May-09, at 8:47 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > >> In the last decade or two, a substantial amount of Sanskrit >> literature has become available in e-text form. Veda, Mahabharata, >> Ramayana, Mahabhasya, Astadhyayi, Kasika, Puranas, many Tantras, >> dharmasastra and jyotisa texts, Buddhist literature, much else. >> >> What next? What text is there in Devanagari script that hasn't >> been input yet, and that you would dearly like to have as an e- >> text? I wonder if we can put together a prioritized list? >> >> Best, >> Dominik Wujastyk >> From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Fri May 29 21:51:05 2009 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (George Thompson) Date: Fri, 29 May 09 17:51:05 -0400 Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text In-Reply-To: <4CFBB50329D349BFBB8307FD01A178D0@zen> Message-ID: <161227086528.23782.1816759971138708989.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 88 Lines: 8 Is Sayana online anywhere? I have looked, but have not found... George Thompson > From xadxura at GMAIL.COM Sat May 30 00:55:30 2009 From: xadxura at GMAIL.COM (Andrew Glass) Date: Fri, 29 May 09 17:55:30 -0700 Subject: here, here (was: Re: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text_ In-Reply-To: <76c1007b0905291302w4df5da65g9760ed210e35f6b6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227086532.23782.5581697013170286484.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 926 Lines: 21 Based solely on the publication date, the BHSD should still be under copyright, therefore, making an etext of this work is a potential violation of copyright. With this concern in mind I wrote to Yale UP some years ago and asked for permission to create an etext. They did not reply. It may be that the copyright was transferred to Motilal, but this is just a guess based on the case of Brough's Gandhari Dharmapada. With this in mind the EBMP (www.ebmp.org) made an index to the headwords in the BHSD. It has been my intention to make this index available to the public, but I have not had time to do that yet. At least as an index we can tell whether or not a word is in BHSD. I have a number of things to do this weekend, but may have time to make this index publicly available - I will notify this list when ready. I heard some years ago that a full etext did exist but never saw any evidence of this myself. Andrew From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Fri May 29 13:46:04 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 29 May 09 19:16:04 +0530 Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text Message-ID: <161227086500.23782.11413742797130216509.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1086 Lines: 29 E-publications can serve their purpose the best when out-of-print/ or difficult-to-purchase books are made available thru them. Examples 1.The Nalanda edition of the Tripitaka in Devnagari 2.Aryabhatiyam with Bhaskara 1 and Parameshvara Best for all DB --- On Fri, 29/5/09, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: From: Dominik Wujastyk Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Friday, 29 May, 2009, 6:17 PM In the last decade or two, a substantial amount of Sanskrit literature has become available in e-text form.? Veda, Mahabharata, Ramayana, Mahabhasya, Astadhyayi, Kasika, Puranas, many Tantras, dharmasastra and jyotisa texts, Buddhist literature, much else. What next?? What text is there in Devanagari script that hasn't been input yet, and that you would dearly like to have as an e-text?? I wonder if we can put together a prioritized list? Best, Dominik Wujastyk Own a website.Get an unlimited package.Pay next to nothing.*Go to http://in.business.yahoo.com/ From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM Fri May 29 19:41:17 2009 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge) Date: Fri, 29 May 09 20:41:17 +0100 Subject: Ageusia Message-ID: <161227086516.23782.2127810603418003596.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3707 Lines: 68 Ashok Aklujkar wrote: > It would be better to share the passage with your potential helpers. Sorry to have been unintentionally a bit cryptic. Actually, with a bit more thought, I think I have solved the problem myself. The term I was looking for may have been "?u?ka" or perhaps "sa??u?ka", used as a pun in the context, though "dagdha" is also a possibilty. Needless to say, the pun has got lost in translation. The problem was that I was not fully aware that "?u?ka" has other secondary meanings, especially as I was just looking at the more common (in Buddist texts) "vi?u?ka". The passage occurs in the Mah?yana Mah?parinirv??a-s?tra, with glosses bracketed off thus < ... >: gsol pa | sems can | tshig pa rnams ci las 'gyur lags || bka' stsal pa | gzhi gsum rtag pa mi shes pa gang yin pa de dag ni sems can | tshig par 'gyur ro || dper na mi lce tshig pa rnams kyis ro drug ste | mngar ba dang | skyur ba dang | lan tshwa'i ro dang | tsha ba dang | kha ba dang | bska ba rnams za ba na ro'i bye brag mi phyed pa de bzhin du sems can mi shes pa | lce dang | rkan dang | lkog ma tshig pa | gzhi gsum rtag par mi shes pa gang yin pa de dag ni | tshig pa zhes bya'o || "How come there are beings who are/have parched ?" "Those who do not know the Three Bases [= Three Jewels] are permanent become beings are burnt/parched. For example, humans who tongues are burnt/parched are unable to distinguish the differences between the six tastes when they eat anything sweet, sour, salty, bitter, pungent or astringent. Similarly, ignorant beings , whose tongues are burnt/parched, who do not know that the three grounds are permanent, are said to be/have "?u?ka" < tongues, palates and throats>. This is not the place to describe in detail the many peculiarities of the Tibetan version of the Mah?yana Mah?parinirv??a-s?tra, but reading this against the two Chinese versions, it is now clear to me that the Tibetan text has incorporated two glosses into the body of the text ~ which is typical for this text which had been heavily annotated several times during its transmission. Originally, I assume the text would have just read "How come there are people who are ?u?ka ?" ~ in the primary sense of "frightening, harsh" and punning secondarily as "with parched /burnt mouths" (as with pretas). First, the gloss of "tongue, plate and throat" was added in several places at an early stage and so is common to the Chinese and the Tibetan versions, and later the gloss "ma rungs pa 'jigs su rung ba" (harsh, frightening) was also added ~ but only in the Tibetan ms lineage. I would also imagine that some of the other connotations of "?u?ka", if that was the word used, are also implied here well such as "vain, useless". As a footnote to this, if they have bothered to read this far, I wonder if anybody (Jonathan, Matthew ?) has come across the expression "gzhi gsum" for the tri-ratna ? This is used consistedly by preference throughout the Mah?parinirv??a-s?tra>. Maybe I haven't read attentively / widely enough (I do try, though), but I have never seen this term used in any other Tibetan translations of Indic texts. It would be nice to know what the underlying Skt word here would have been. Best wishes, Stephen Hodge From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM Fri May 29 19:46:31 2009 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge) Date: Fri, 29 May 09 20:46:31 +0100 Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text Message-ID: <161227086520.23782.10632475659542484221.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 354 Lines: 11 Not a Devanagari text so not relevent here, but it would be *immensely* helpful if Edgerton's Dictionary of Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit could ever be made into an e-text. It would be a very big job, even with OCR and there may be problems with copyright still. Or is there a secret copy already in private circulation ? Best wishes, Stephen Hodge From wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK Fri May 29 20:02:30 2009 From: wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK (Whitney Cox) Date: Fri, 29 May 09 21:02:30 +0100 Subject: here, here (was: Re: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text_ Message-ID: <161227086524.23782.17983435369646553486.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 788 Lines: 30 Even speaking as a non-Buddhologist, I would enthusiastically welcome Stephen's suggestion of an Edgerton e-text, and would be equally interested in any samizdat copy there may be. Whitney 2009/5/29 Stephen Hodge : > Not a Devanagari text so not relevent here, but it would be *immensely* > helpful if Edgerton's Dictionary of Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit could ever be > made into an e-text. ?It would be a very big job, even with OCR and there > may be problems with copyright still. ?Or is there a secret copy already in > private circulation ? > > Best wishes, > Stephen Hodge > -- Dr. Whitney Cox Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, School of Oriental and African Studies Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square London WC1H 0XG From Loriliai.Biernacki at COLORADO.EDU Sat May 30 07:10:10 2009 From: Loriliai.Biernacki at COLORADO.EDU (Loriliai Biernacki) Date: Sat, 30 May 09 01:10:10 -0600 Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text In-Reply-To: <20090530014436.BYK80877@m4500-02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227086555.23782.207335866288718032.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1188 Lines: 38 I'd really like to see some of the lesser studied Tantric texts, for starters, the Gandharva Tantra and the several volumes available in the Tantrasa?graha Series edited by V.V Dvivedi in the Yogatantra-Grantham?l? published by Sampurnanand Sanskrit University and Brahm?nanda Giri's ??kt?nandatara?gi??. -- Loriliai Biernacki Associate Professor University of Colorado at Boulder UCB 292 Boulder, CO 80309 303-735-4730 Loriliai.Biernacki at colorado.edu http://www.colorado.edu/ReligiousStudies/faculty/loriliai.biernacki.html > Among philosophical works, I have not so far found > e-texts of (pardon the omitted diacritical marks): > > Santaraksita's Tattvasamgraha and its Panjika > > Sarvadarsanasamgraha attr. to Sayanamadhava (or to Ceni Bhatta) > > Haribhadrasuri's Saddarsanasamuccaya and its comms. > > And very little Jaina philosophy in general seems > so far available. The > encyclopedic nature of the three texts mentioned above, however, > recommends them I think rather strongly. > > Matthew T. Kapstein > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies > The University of Chicago Divinity School > > Directeur d'?tudes > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Sat May 30 06:24:13 2009 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Sat, 30 May 09 01:24:13 -0500 Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086543.23782.13008039714194975380.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 378 Lines: 11 I would be very interested in getting two classes of texts: the philosophical commentaries, e.g. Sankara on the Brahmasutras, etc., and second, the major commentaries and nibandhas of the Dharmasastric genre from the early medieval period -- e.g. Mitaksara of Vijanesvara, Smriticandrika of Devannabhatta, or even the voluminous Krityakalpataru of Laksmidhara. Patrick From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Sat May 30 06:44:36 2009 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Sat, 30 May 09 01:44:36 -0500 Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text In-Reply-To: <857A4D84DE6D1D41837DD9284F2729AB09AB0488@exchangesrv1.hum2005.hum.ku.dk> Message-ID: <161227086551.23782.12905334073918566976.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 619 Lines: 23 Among philosophical works, I have not so far found e-texts of (pardon the omitted diacritical marks): Santaraksita's Tattvasamgraha and its Panjika Sarvadarsanasamgraha attr. to Sayanamadhava (or to Ceni Bhatta) Haribhadrasuri's Saddarsanasamuccaya and its comms. And very little Jaina philosophy in general seems so far available. The encyclopedic nature of the three texts mentioned above, however, recommends them I think rather strongly. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET Sat May 30 07:28:09 2009 From: vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Sat, 30 May 09 03:28:09 -0400 Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text Message-ID: <161227086559.23782.13000133290094723236.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 448 Lines: 16 Following up on Jonathan Silk's observation that an e-text version of Prasannapada is already available, it can be found online, downloadable chapter by chapter, both in romanized and devanagri: http://www.uwest.edu/sanskritcanon/ (devanagri) http://www.uwest.edu/sanskritcanon/dp/index.php?q=node/35&textID=364a0241f1c530e758a (romanized) http://www.uwest.edu/sanskritcanon/dp/index.php?q=node%2F35&textID=305d32f810d503783cb Dan Lusthaus From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Sat May 30 05:40:55 2009 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Sat, 30 May 09 05:40:55 +0000 Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086536.23782.15945172272045634659.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1572 Lines: 28 - I would second George Thompson's suggestion that the time is now ripe to amplify the almost complete collection of Vedic e-texts with the important commentaries of Saaya.na, pseudo-Saaya.na, Bha.t.ta Bhaaskara Mi"sra, and others.- I would suspect that commentaries in other textual traditions have also tended to be skipped in the first, prolific, phase of e-text-creation which Dominik refers to.- What about Ko"sas? At least on GRETIL, we only seem to have Amarako"sa (without commentaries). - There are several important epigraphical corpora printed in Devanagari script which it would be delightful to have in searchable romanized form. Best wishes from Saigon, Arlo Griffiths ---------------------------------------- > Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 14:47:26 +0200 > From: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK > Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > In the last decade or two, a substantial amount of Sanskrit literature has > become available in e-text form. Veda, Mahabharata, Ramayana, Mahabhasya, > Astadhyayi, Kasika, Puranas, many Tantras, dharmasastra and jyotisa texts, > Buddhist literature, much else. > > What next? What text is there in Devanagari script that hasn't been input > yet, and that you would dearly like to have as an e-text? I wonder if we > can put together a prioritized list? > > Best, > Dominik Wujastyk _________________________________________________________________ See all the ways you can stay connected to friends and family http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/default.aspx From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Sat May 30 05:51:36 2009 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Sat, 30 May 09 07:51:36 +0200 Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086540.23782.577571743959325784.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1987 Lines: 53 I have the impression that in addition to the materials publicly or semi-publicly available, there are also --perhaps substantial--materials privately input, perhaps in so-called legacy systems. It might be profitable to try to make an effort to bring such things into general circulation as well, even if this means a certain amount of conversion is also necessary--probably better than starting over. I have, for instance, heard that German scholars, perhaps those associated with the Turfan project(s), have a huge database of Buddhist Sanskrit materials, much of which is not otherwise, as far as I know, available, but that it resides in some dinosaur-era format... Moreover, of course, many people input things themselves, and circulate them to their friends and colleagues; if one is lucky enough to encounter such a person while in possession of a large hard drive... well, there must be a more systematic way to go about this. very best, jonathan > > ---------------------------------------- > > Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 14:47:26 +0200 > > From: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK > > Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text > > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > > > In the last decade or two, a substantial amount of Sanskrit literature > has > > become available in e-text form. Veda, Mahabharata, Ramayana, Mahabhasya, > > Astadhyayi, Kasika, Puranas, many Tantras, dharmasastra and jyotisa > texts, > > Buddhist literature, much else. > > > > What next? What text is there in Devanagari script that hasn't been input > > yet, and that you would dearly like to have as an e-text? I wonder if we > > can put together a prioritized list? > > > > Best, > > Dominik Wujastyk > > _________________________________________________________________ > See all the ways you can stay connected to friends and family > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/default.aspx -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From zysk at HUM.KU.DK Sat May 30 06:32:16 2009 From: zysk at HUM.KU.DK (Kenneth Zysk) Date: Sat, 30 May 09 08:32:16 +0200 Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086548.23782.13483926894930178068.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 684 Lines: 23 To Patrick's suggestions, I would add Mitramisra's Viramitrodaya. KZ -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Patrick Olivelle Sent: 30 May 2009 08:24 To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text I would be very interested in getting two classes of texts: the philosophical commentaries, e.g. Sankara on the Brahmasutras, etc., and second, the major commentaries and nibandhas of the Dharmasastric genre from the early medieval period -- e.g. Mitaksara of Vijanesvara, Smriticandrika of Devannabhatta, or even the voluminous Krityakalpataru of Laksmidhara. Patrick From birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT Sat May 30 07:43:55 2009 From: birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Birgit Kellner) Date: Sat, 30 May 09 09:43:55 +0200 Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086562.23782.3453949849102456748.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2749 Lines: 56 Jonathan Silk wrote: > I have the impression that in addition to the materials publicly or > semi-publicly available, there are also --perhaps substantial--materials > privately input, perhaps in so-called legacy systems. It might be profitable > to try to make an effort to bring such things into general circulation as > well, even if this means a certain amount of conversion is also > necessary--probably better than starting over. I have, for instance, heard > that German scholars, perhaps those associated with the Turfan project(s), > have a huge database of Buddhist Sanskrit materials, much of which is not > otherwise, as far as I know, available, but that it resides in some > dinosaur-era format... Moreover, of course, many people input things > themselves, and circulate them to their friends and colleagues; if one is > lucky enough to encounter such a person while in possession of a large hard > drive... well, there must be a more systematic way to go about this. > > very best, jonathan > > In general, the response to Dominik's query suggests it would be worthwhile working towards an inventory of works that are already available electronically: either in searchable format or as image scans (the latter might be useful to know for people who'd like to produce searchable versions, which in some cases may work well with OCR). Even if the e-texts themselves are not accessible publicly, for whatever reasons (dinosaur format or copyright issues), it would be useful to know that they exist. I believe it would be possible to gradually create such an inventory as a web database: collaborative, with users able to create an account and post information about texts that they have entered (and links to where they can be found, if possible), and ideally with a redactor who oversees the general accuracy of information and also keeps his or her eyes open and adds information on his/her own. If individual e-text repositories also publish their new additions in a standardized format (an RSS feed), such information could also be processed automatically. A combination of community effort, some redacting and entry on the part of a designated person, and automatized tools, might be a good way to keep the effort necessary to create such an inventory and keep it up to date within reasonable limits. It would also be a good way to make the best of the current situation, likely to continue, that there are, after all, a number of repositories (GRETIL, Buddhist canon, TITUS, SARIT, etc.) that keep growing and developing. There is really no reason, I believe, why people should reduplicate the work of others. Especially when it's as tiresome as producing electronic texts. All the best, Birgit From hwtull at MSN.COM Sat May 30 15:15:43 2009 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Sat, 30 May 09 11:15:43 -0400 Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086574.23782.9062736310024782934.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2232 Lines: 57 Looking at the responses to this post, I wonder if anyone has compiled a comprehensive list of available Sanskrit e-texts and the collections where they can be located? I am not a "full-time" Sanskritist, and I find that when I do need a text, it can necessitate long hours of searching through the different collections and databases. Herman Tull Princeton, NJ -------------------------------------------------- From: "Birgit Kellner" Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 10:55 AM To: Subject: Re: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text > Peter Wyzlic wrote: >> Am 30.05.2009 um 08:44 schrieb mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU: >> >>> Among philosophical works, I have not so far found >>> e-texts of (pardon the omitted diacritical marks): >>> >>> Santaraksita's Tattvasamgraha and its Panjika >>> >>> Sarvadarsanasamgraha attr. to Sayanamadhava (or to Ceni Bhatta) >>> >>> Haribhadrasuri's Saddarsanasamuccaya and its comms. >> >> Scanned versions (without searchable e-text) are made available by the >> Digital Library of India (Bangalore division). Unfortunately, the access >> is not very user-friendly (and the URLs are not easy to cite, therefore >> shortened here): >> >> E.g. Tattvasa?graha vol. 1 ed. E. Krishnamacharya: >> >> Tattvasa?graha, vol. 2: >> Sarvadar?anasa?graha ed. V.S. Abhyankar: >> ?a?dar?anasamuccaya ed. L. Suali: and >> > The Tattvasa?graha and the -pa?jik? were at some point made available as > e-texts by Jong Cheol Lee, as were a numer of other Buddhist texts, as > part of a project called "Sanskrit Database for a Polyglot Buddhist > Dictionary". These e-texts do circulate, but they do not seem to be > available for download from any website officially. I also don't know what > became of Lee's project. > > The ?a??ar?anasamuccaya (Suali ed.) was digitized by Muneo Tokunaga, with > Gu?aratna's commentary, and can be found here: > http://tiger.bun.kyoto-u.ac.jp/mtokunag/skt_texts/SaDDS.txt (Kyoto-Harvard > transliteration). > > Best regards, > > Birgit Kellner > From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Sat May 30 09:36:59 2009 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Sat, 30 May 09 11:36:59 +0200 Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086565.23782.10666233556805424193.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 589 Lines: 23 Am 30.05.2009 um 09:10 schrieb Loriliai Biernacki: > I'd really like to see some of the lesser studied Tantric texts, for > starters, the Gandharva Tantra and the several volumes available in > the > Tantrasa?graha Series edited by V.V Dvivedi in the Yogatantra- > Grantham?l? > published by Sampurnanand Sanskrit University and Brahm?nanda Giri's > ??kt?nandatara?gi??. The ??kt?nandatara?gi??, at least, is available via Muktabodha. All the best Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Abteilung f?r Indologie Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Sat May 30 10:26:20 2009 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Sat, 30 May 09 12:26:20 +0200 Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text In-Reply-To: <20090530014436.BYK80877@m4500-02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227086568.23782.1858418926428972733.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1397 Lines: 43 Am 30.05.2009 um 08:44 schrieb mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU: > Among philosophical works, I have not so far found > e-texts of (pardon the omitted diacritical marks): > > Santaraksita's Tattvasamgraha and its Panjika > > Sarvadarsanasamgraha attr. to Sayanamadhava (or to Ceni Bhatta) > > Haribhadrasuri's Saddarsanasamuccaya and its comms. Scanned versions (without searchable e-text) are made available by the Digital Library of India (Bangalore division). Unfortunately, the access is not very user-friendly (and the URLs are not easy to cite, therefore shortened here): E.g. Tattvasa?graha vol. 1 ed. E. Krishnamacharya: Tattvasa?graha, vol. 2: Sarvadar?anasa?graha ed. V.S. Abhyankar: ?a?dar?anasamuccaya ed. L. Suali: and > And very little Jaina philosophy in general seems > so far available. The > encyclopedic nature of the three texts mentioned above, however, > recommends them I think rather strongly. In 2007, a Jain association in the US brought out two DVDs with Jaina e-texts and scans. It was called "Jaina e-Library". Their web address was or still is: http://www.jaina.org Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Abteilung f?r Indologie Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Sat May 30 18:36:40 2009 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Sat, 30 May 09 13:36:40 -0500 Subject: gzhi gsum In-Reply-To: <721C88B3EBB64A5886CFC4D9EE13EB64@zen> Message-ID: <161227086579.23782.18273099100793011294.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 683 Lines: 29 Dear Stephen, I am familiar with gzhi gsum as a Vinaya term, referring to the three basic rites of po.sadha, upavaasa, and pravara.na. But this does not seem to be suitable for your context. As Stein pointed out (Tibetica Antiqua I), the conventions adopted in Tibetan translations from Chinese are sometimes quite different from the "standard" Tibetan Buddhist vocabulary, and have not so far been very extensively documented -- Stein's work was a great start, but much remains to be done. best, Matthew Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Sat May 30 22:01:50 2009 From: baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Sat, 30 May 09 15:01:50 -0700 Subject: here, here (was: Re: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text_ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086582.23782.5035257183393394070.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 500 Lines: 18 Regarding Andrew?s comments on BHSD, let me add that I would be happy to commit further resources to a complete digitization if and only if we are legally clear. Maybe somebody with connections at Yale could politely inquire? The Motilal reprint on my desk says ?By arrangement with Yale University Press, New Haven,? so that seems to be a licensed print for the Indian market, not a transfer of copyright. Cheers, Stefan -- Stefan Baums Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington From birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT Sat May 30 14:55:11 2009 From: birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Birgit Kellner) Date: Sat, 30 May 09 16:55:11 +0200 Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086571.23782.3814955989761416292.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1562 Lines: 41 Peter Wyzlic wrote: > Am 30.05.2009 um 08:44 schrieb mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU: > >> Among philosophical works, I have not so far found >> e-texts of (pardon the omitted diacritical marks): >> >> Santaraksita's Tattvasamgraha and its Panjika >> >> Sarvadarsanasamgraha attr. to Sayanamadhava (or to Ceni Bhatta) >> >> Haribhadrasuri's Saddarsanasamuccaya and its comms. > > Scanned versions (without searchable e-text) are made available by the > Digital Library of India (Bangalore division). Unfortunately, the > access is not very user-friendly (and the URLs are not easy to cite, > therefore shortened here): > > E.g. Tattvasa?graha vol. 1 ed. E. Krishnamacharya: > > Tattvasa?graha, vol. 2: > Sarvadar?anasa?graha ed. V.S. Abhyankar: > ?a?dar?anasamuccaya ed. L. Suali: and > The Tattvasa?graha and the -pa?jik? were at some point made available as e-texts by Jong Cheol Lee, as were a numer of other Buddhist texts, as part of a project called "Sanskrit Database for a Polyglot Buddhist Dictionary". These e-texts do circulate, but they do not seem to be available for download from any website officially. I also don't know what became of Lee's project. The ?a??ar?anasamuccaya (Suali ed.) was digitized by Muneo Tokunaga, with Gu?aratna's commentary, and can be found here: http://tiger.bun.kyoto-u.ac.jp/mtokunag/skt_texts/SaDDS.txt (Kyoto-Harvard transliteration). Best regards, Birgit Kellner From pankajaindia at GMAIL.COM Sat May 30 18:11:37 2009 From: pankajaindia at GMAIL.COM (Pankaj Jain) Date: Sat, 30 May 09 19:11:37 +0100 Subject: Movies on Shankaracharya et al AND saving word docs as pdf Message-ID: <161227086577.23782.12411779891882957511.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1008 Lines: 31 G V Iyer (the maker of Sanskrit film on Adi Shankaracharya) also made films on other great Hindu figures: Ramanujacharya (in Tamil) can be bought at: http://www.thekrishnastore.com/Detail.bok?no=827&bar Madhvacharya (in Kannada)can be bought at: http://www.vedanta.com/store/product361.html Also, regarding saving word documents as pdf, I would like to share that MS-Word 2007 has a built-in option for this, just click on save as and then choose pdf (you will need to install a microsoft plugin to enable this feature, available at: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=4d951911-3e7e-4ae6-b059-a2e79ed87041&displaylang=en ) Hope this helps, Best, Pankaj ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dr. Pankaj Jain पंकज ज&#2376;न, Department of Religion and Philosophy, Department of Foreign Languages and Literatures, North Carolina State University. http://www.IndicUniversity.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From frederick-smith at UIOWA.EDU Sun May 31 01:15:50 2009 From: frederick-smith at UIOWA.EDU (Smith, Frederick M) Date: Sat, 30 May 09 20:15:50 -0500 Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086586.23782.4031987035498017273.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 712 Lines: 24 Tantravarttika by Kumarila Bhatta. All available comms, on Yogasutras. But, Jonathan and others are right, we do need a single list of what's out there. Fred Smith On 5/29/09 7:47 AM, "Dominik Wujastyk" wrote: In the last decade or two, a substantial amount of Sanskrit literature has become available in e-text form. Veda, Mahabharata, Ramayana, Mahabhasya, Astadhyayi, Kasika, Puranas, many Tantras, dharmasastra and jyotisa texts, Buddhist literature, much else. What next? What text is there in Devanagari script that hasn't been input yet, and that you would dearly like to have as an e-text? I wonder if we can put together a prioritized list? Best, Dominik Wujastyk From fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM Sun May 31 01:36:59 2009 From: fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM (Benjamin Fleming) Date: Sat, 30 May 09 21:36:59 -0400 Subject: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227086589.23782.14105685160502232952.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 385 Lines: 18 And I thought dealing with Sanskrit lists of pilgrimage sites could be unruly! A single list would indeed be a feat of ever growing proportions. . listenwissenschaft in practice! Best Wishes, BF On 5/30/09 9:15 PM, "Smith, Frederick M" wrote: > But, Jonathan and others are right, we do need a single list of what's out > there. > > Fred Smith From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM Sat May 30 23:45:53 2009 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge) Date: Sun, 31 May 09 00:45:53 +0100 Subject: gzhi gsum Message-ID: <161227086584.23782.16813417252286964291.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1514 Lines: 34 Dear Matthew, Thanks for your Vinaya suggestion ~ though, of course it does not fit as you yourself mention. > As Stein pointed out (Tibetica Antiqua I), > the conventions adopted in Tibetan translations >from Chinese are sometimes quite different from >the "standard" Tibetan Buddhist vocabulary. Very true, but this is not a translation from Chinese at all ~ I am not working with the secondary translation into Tibetan, of Dharmaksema's "extended" Chinese text, even though that happens to be popular with Tibetan writers. Actually the parallel Chinese versions by Faxian and Dharmaskema of the Indic text of the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana-sutra, each ultimately based on the same ancestral South Indian text as the Tibetan text, are unhelpful since they have in most cases converted the "gzhi gsum" into a simple "san bao" (Three Jewels). As for possible Skt candidates, it is a probably a toss up between "vastu" or "bhaava" for "gzhi". I am interested because it seems an unusual expression, and I wondered whether it might be a idiosyncratic term of choice among whichever Mahasanghika sub-group produced the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana-sutra in the first place. This is not unimportant since the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana-sutra spends quite a bit of time discussing the Three Jewels in the guise of these "gzhi gsum" (and never "dkon mchog gsum"), when they are eventually subsumed into the buddha-dhaatu and thus interiorized as a personal, internal refuge. Best wishes, Stephen Hodge From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Sun May 31 08:14:21 2009 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Sun, 31 May 09 03:14:21 -0500 Subject: gzhi gsum In-Reply-To: <3CDA3001BEBD410BBB5EEC13409ACF32@zen> Message-ID: <161227086591.23782.16052695573716698845.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 559 Lines: 21 Dear Stephen, It's indeed an interesting locution, particularly given that the source text is Indic. I suspect you're right to think that vastu is a better candidate than bhaava, but have you ruled out aazraya? In any case, if the Chinese versions are using sanbao throughout, they're of no help at all here. Do you find anything in the Turfan fragments edited by Waldschmidt? Matthew Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From fifield at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Sun May 31 16:27:14 2009 From: fifield at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Justin A. Fifield) Date: Sun, 31 May 09 12:27:14 -0400 Subject: here, here (was: Re: What Devanagari text would you most like as an e-text_ In-Reply-To: <20090530220150.GA5474@ubuntu> Message-ID: <161227086596.23782.15539274053523979952.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 968 Lines: 35 Dear all, I have a scanned copy of the BHSD in .pdf and .jpg that could serve as a basis for an e-text (provided the copyright issues are settled; this scan I did myself from the Motilal publication). However, this file is _very_ big, running over half a gig. I'm not quite sure how to reduce the size in a way that preserves the quality of the text. Please let me know if these files could be of some use. Best, Justin Fifield Ph.D. Candidate Study of Religion Harvard University Stefan Baums wrote: > Regarding Andrew?s comments on BHSD, let me add that I would be > happy to commit further resources to a complete digitization if > and only if we are legally clear. Maybe somebody with connections > at Yale could politely inquire? The Motilal reprint on my desk > says ?By arrangement with Yale University Press, New Haven,? so > that seems to be a licensed print for the Indian market, not a > transfer of copyright. > > Cheers, > Stefan > > From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Sun May 31 11:40:58 2009 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Sun, 31 May 09 13:40:58 +0200 Subject: Choice of meter for writing a treatise: s'loka vs. aaryaa Message-ID: <161227086594.23782.12999978088433470314.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 565 Lines: 21 Dear list members, being engaged in a study of the popularity of various meters in the Tamil speaking world, I would welcome informations on the reasons (or the background) for the choice of meter while writing a treatise in Sanskrit. Are there for instance articles/books examining, explaining or suggesting reasons why the V?kyapad?ya was composed in ?loka-s whereas the S??khyak?rik? was composed in ?ry?? (I hope I am not mistaken) Is this simply a consequence of the date of their compositions? Thanks for any pointers -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris) From reimann at BERKELEY.EDU Sun Nov 1 00:33:52 2009 From: reimann at BERKELEY.EDU (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 17:33:52 -0700 Subject: yugas and colours In-Reply-To: <4AEC9E60.5030803@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227087792.23782.11277313061595585400.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1946 Lines: 80 The /Balacarita/ of Bhasa also mentions Narayana/Visnu's changing colors in the yugas in its opening lines: Krta: the color of conch or milk Treta: shiny like gold Dvapara: black as durva grass Kali: black as collyrium Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann _____ on 10/31/2009 1:30 PM Luis Gonzalez-Reimann wrote: > The colors in 3.148, mentioned by Harunaga, are: > > Krta: white > Treta: red > Dvapara: yellow > Kali: black > > But there is a different version in Mbh 3.187.31: > > Krta: white > Treta: yellow > Dvapara: red > Kali: black > > Where the colors for Treta and Dvapara are reversed. > > I discuss this in my book /The Mahabharata and the Yugas/ (pp. 103, > 114-116). > > Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann > _____ > > on 10/31/2009 12:29 PM Harunaga Isaacson wrote: >> And it is in the MBh, not only in passages excluded from the critical >> edition (such as that which DG >> quoted), but also in 3.148 ("sukla in vs. 16, rakta in 23, piita in >> 26, and k.r.s.na in 33). >> >> Harunaga Isaacson >> >> >> Peter Bisschop wrote: >>> It is found in the Vi.s.nudharma (edition R. Gruenendahl): >>> 104.27 ("sukla), 104.35 (rakta), 104.38 (piita), 104.45 (k.r.s.na) >>> >>> Peter Bisschop >>> >>> Quoting Dominic Goodall : >>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes colour in >>>> each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na? >>>> >>>> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato 'nuyuga.m >>>> tanuu.h >>>> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m k.r.s.nataa.m >>>> gata.h >>>> >>>> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of the >>>> Mahaabhaarata, e.g. >>>> >>>> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge raktataa.m >>>> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam >>>> abhyaagata.h >>>> >>>> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references? >>>> >>>> Dominic Goodall >>> >>> >>> >> >> > From jkirk at SPRO.NET Sun Nov 1 00:56:35 2009 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 18:56:35 -0600 Subject: yugas and colours In-Reply-To: <4AECA794.2010707@columbia.edu> Message-ID: <161227087794.23782.9472568688385734045.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2831 Lines: 115 A scholar who's done a good deal of work on the 'echt-colors' (if I may call them that) is Nick Allen, with respect to Dumezil's tripartite IE functions. See for ex.: Allen, N.J. 1998c Varnas, colours and functions: expanding Dum?zil?s schema. Z. f?r Religionswissenschaft 6: 163-177. Another comparative source is Berlin & Kay, Basic Color Terms: Their Universality and Evolution. Best, Joanna Kirkpatrick =============== -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Tenzin Bob Thurman Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 3:10 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: yugas and colours Just noticed this discussion, and it brought to mind the not unrelated fact that the faces of the Buddha Kaalachakra and the dirctional colors in his mandala palace are precisely those, front-east black, right-south red, back-west yellow, left-north white. ince his body is supposed to represent all the "parts" of time, fitting that his faces represent the yugas. That mandala is the only one in the Tibetan collection that I know of that uses those colors for the faces and directions. Bob Thurman Luis Gonzalez-Reimann wrote: > The colors in 3.148, mentioned by Harunaga, are: > > Krta: white > Treta: red > Dvapara: yellow > Kali: black > > But there is a different version in Mbh 3.187.31: > > Krta: white > Treta: yellow > Dvapara: red > Kali: black > > Where the colors for Treta and Dvapara are reversed. > > I discuss this in my book /The Mahabharata and the Yugas/ (pp. 103, > 114-116). > > Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann > _____ > > on 10/31/2009 12:29 PM Harunaga Isaacson wrote: >> And it is in the MBh, not only in passages excluded from the critical >> edition (such as that which DG quoted), but also in 3.148 ("sukla in >> vs. 16, rakta in 23, piita in 26, and k.r.s.na in 33). >> >> Harunaga Isaacson >> >> >> Peter Bisschop wrote: >>> It is found in the Vi.s.nudharma (edition R. Gruenendahl): >>> 104.27 ("sukla), 104.35 (rakta), 104.38 (piita), 104.45 (k.r.s.na) >>> >>> Peter Bisschop >>> >>> Quoting Dominic Goodall : >>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes colour >>>> in each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na? >>>> >>>> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato 'nuyuga.m >>>> tanuu.h >>>> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m k.r.s.nataa.m >>>> gata.h >>>> >>>> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of the >>>> Mahaabhaarata, e.g. >>>> >>>> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge >>>> raktataa.m >>>> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam >>>> abhyaagata.h >>>> >>>> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references? >>>> >>>> Dominic Goodall >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > From jkirk at SPRO.NET Sun Nov 1 01:50:28 2009 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 19:50:28 -0600 Subject: yugas and colours In-Reply-To: <4AECD770.50607@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227087797.23782.8063899934551102988.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2959 Lines: 121 Here you can see a photo of durva grass: http://tinyurl.com/yamfzx2 It is (by our naming) "green". One of the problems with colors is that black, blue and green often are conflated in the same term. Or "dark" might mean green. And in some areas green and yellow share the same term. So here, I'd guess (in terms of the way 'we" perceive color), dvapara would be green, not "black as durva grass". krta--color of conch or milk--= white treta--like gold = yellow dvapara --durva grass = green (elsewhere, blue or dark blue) kali= kaajal--usually there's little variation with real black. The missing color here is red. But, like classification of foods according to their warmth or coldness, dryness or moisture, etc., these color classifications will show variation. Joanna K. -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Luis Gonzalez-Reimann Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 6:34 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: yugas and colours The /Balacarita/ of Bhasa also mentions Narayana/Visnu's changing colors in the yugas in its opening lines: Krta: the color of conch or milk Treta: shiny like gold Dvapara: black as durva grass Kali: black as collyrium Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann _____ on 10/31/2009 1:30 PM Luis Gonzalez-Reimann wrote: > The colors in 3.148, mentioned by Harunaga, are: > > Krta: white > Treta: red > Dvapara: yellow > Kali: black > > But there is a different version in Mbh 3.187.31: > > Krta: white > Treta: yellow > Dvapara: red > Kali: black > > Where the colors for Treta and Dvapara are reversed. > > I discuss this in my book /The Mahabharata and the Yugas/ (pp. 103, > 114-116). > > Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann > _____ > > on 10/31/2009 12:29 PM Harunaga Isaacson wrote: >> And it is in the MBh, not only in passages excluded from the critical >> edition (such as that which DG quoted), but also in 3.148 ("sukla in >> vs. 16, rakta in 23, piita in 26, and k.r.s.na in 33). >> >> Harunaga Isaacson >> >> >> Peter Bisschop wrote: >>> It is found in the Vi.s.nudharma (edition R. Gruenendahl): >>> 104.27 ("sukla), 104.35 (rakta), 104.38 (piita), 104.45 (k.r.s.na) >>> >>> Peter Bisschop >>> >>> Quoting Dominic Goodall : >>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes colour >>>> in each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na? >>>> >>>> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato 'nuyuga.m >>>> tanuu.h >>>> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m k.r.s.nataa.m >>>> gata.h >>>> >>>> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of the >>>> Mahaabhaarata, e.g. >>>> >>>> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge >>>> raktataa.m >>>> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam >>>> abhyaagata.h >>>> >>>> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references? >>>> >>>> Dominic Goodall >>> >>> >>> >> >> > From reimann at BERKELEY.EDU Sun Nov 1 06:59:13 2009 From: reimann at BERKELEY.EDU (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 23:59:13 -0700 Subject: yugas and colours In-Reply-To: <65DF1482341B4FD3A9E279B7C58ACCD0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <161227087802.23782.7337519740744359099.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3514 Lines: 149 Yes, thanks. Surely 'durva-green' would be better. The text says dUrvA-zyAma-nibhaH. Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann _____ on 10/31/2009 6:50 PM JKirkpatrick wrote: > Here you can see a photo of durva grass: > http://tinyurl.com/yamfzx2 > > It is (by our naming) "green". One of the problems with colors is > that black, blue and green often are conflated in the same term. > Or "dark" might mean green. > And in some areas green and yellow share the same term. > So here, I'd guess (in terms of the way 'we" perceive color), > dvapara would be green, not > "black as durva grass". > > krta--color of conch or milk--= white > treta--like gold = yellow > dvapara --durva grass = green (elsewhere, blue or dark blue) > kali= kaajal--usually there's little variation with real black. > > The missing color here is red. > > But, like classification of foods according to their warmth or > coldness, dryness or moisture, etc., these color classifications > will show variation. > > Joanna K. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of > Luis Gonzalez-Reimann > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 6:34 PM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: yugas and colours > > The /Balacarita/ of Bhasa also mentions Narayana/Visnu's changing > colors in the yugas in its opening lines: > > Krta: the color of conch or milk > Treta: shiny like gold > Dvapara: black as durva grass > Kali: black as collyrium > > Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann > _____ > > on 10/31/2009 1:30 PM Luis Gonzalez-Reimann wrote: > >> The colors in 3.148, mentioned by Harunaga, are: >> >> Krta: white >> Treta: red >> Dvapara: yellow >> Kali: black >> >> But there is a different version in Mbh 3.187.31: >> >> Krta: white >> Treta: yellow >> Dvapara: red >> Kali: black >> >> Where the colors for Treta and Dvapara are reversed. >> >> I discuss this in my book /The Mahabharata and the Yugas/ (pp. >> > 103, > >> 114-116). >> >> Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann >> _____ >> >> on 10/31/2009 12:29 PM Harunaga Isaacson wrote: >> >>> And it is in the MBh, not only in passages excluded from the >>> > critical > >>> edition (such as that which DG quoted), but also in 3.148 >>> > ("sukla in > >>> vs. 16, rakta in 23, piita in 26, and k.r.s.na in 33). >>> >>> Harunaga Isaacson >>> >>> >>> Peter Bisschop wrote: >>> >>>> It is found in the Vi.s.nudharma (edition R. Gruenendahl): >>>> 104.27 ("sukla), 104.35 (rakta), 104.38 (piita), 104.45 >>>> > (k.r.s.na) > >>>> Peter Bisschop >>>> >>>> Quoting Dominic Goodall : >>>> >>>> >>>>> Dear all, >>>>> >>>>> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes >>>>> > colour > >>>>> in each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na? >>>>> >>>>> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato >>>>> > 'nuyuga.m > >>>>> tanuu.h >>>>> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m >>>>> > k.r.s.nataa.m > >>>>> gata.h >>>>> >>>>> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text >>>>> > of the > >>>>> Mahaabhaarata, e.g. >>>>> >>>>> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge >>>>> raktataa.m >>>>> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan >>>>> > k.r.s.natvam > >>>>> abhyaagata.h >>>>> >>>>> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references? >>>>> >>>>> Dominic Goodall >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> > > From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA Sun Nov 1 11:33:32 2009 From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl) Date: Sun, 01 Nov 09 06:33:32 -0500 Subject: yugas and colours In-Reply-To: <65DF1482341B4FD3A9E279B7C58ACCD0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <161227087804.23782.9946171488126111525.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3607 Lines: 138 Regarding the problem of the exact meaning of colours there is the excellent article by Jean Filliozat: "Classement des coleurs et des lumi?res en sanskrit" in Bulletin de l'Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, IVe section, Paris 1955. See also the chapter "Les coleurs des sentiments" in my book Le GItagovinda. Tradition et innovation dans le kAvya, Stockholm 1977, pp.144-154. Best Stella Sandahl -- Stella Sandahl ssandahl at sympatico.ca On 31-Oct-09, at 9:50 PM, JKirkpatrick wrote: > Here you can see a photo of durva grass: > http://tinyurl.com/yamfzx2 > > It is (by our naming) "green". One of the problems with colors is > that black, blue and green often are conflated in the same term. > Or "dark" might mean green. > And in some areas green and yellow share the same term. > So here, I'd guess (in terms of the way 'we" perceive color), > dvapara would be green, not > "black as durva grass". > > krta--color of conch or milk--= white > treta--like gold = yellow > dvapara --durva grass = green (elsewhere, blue or dark blue) > kali= kaajal--usually there's little variation with real black. > > The missing color here is red. > > But, like classification of foods according to their warmth or > coldness, dryness or moisture, etc., these color classifications > will show variation. > > Joanna K. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of > Luis Gonzalez-Reimann > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 6:34 PM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: yugas and colours > > The /Balacarita/ of Bhasa also mentions Narayana/Visnu's changing > colors in the yugas in its opening lines: > > Krta: the color of conch or milk > Treta: shiny like gold > Dvapara: black as durva grass > Kali: black as collyrium > > Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann > _____ > > on 10/31/2009 1:30 PM Luis Gonzalez-Reimann wrote: >> The colors in 3.148, mentioned by Harunaga, are: >> >> Krta: white >> Treta: red >> Dvapara: yellow >> Kali: black >> >> But there is a different version in Mbh 3.187.31: >> >> Krta: white >> Treta: yellow >> Dvapara: red >> Kali: black >> >> Where the colors for Treta and Dvapara are reversed. >> >> I discuss this in my book /The Mahabharata and the Yugas/ (pp. > 103, >> 114-116). >> >> Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann >> _____ >> >> on 10/31/2009 12:29 PM Harunaga Isaacson wrote: >>> And it is in the MBh, not only in passages excluded from the > critical >>> edition (such as that which DG quoted), but also in 3.148 > ("sukla in >>> vs. 16, rakta in 23, piita in 26, and k.r.s.na in 33). >>> >>> Harunaga Isaacson >>> >>> >>> Peter Bisschop wrote: >>>> It is found in the Vi.s.nudharma (edition R. Gruenendahl): >>>> 104.27 ("sukla), 104.35 (rakta), 104.38 (piita), 104.45 > (k.r.s.na) >>>> >>>> Peter Bisschop >>>> >>>> Quoting Dominic Goodall : >>>> >>>>> Dear all, >>>>> >>>>> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes > colour >>>>> in each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na? >>>>> >>>>> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato > 'nuyuga.m >>>>> tanuu.h >>>>> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m > k.r.s.nataa.m >>>>> gata.h >>>>> >>>>> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text > of the >>>>> Mahaabhaarata, e.g. >>>>> >>>>> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge >>>>> raktataa.m >>>>> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan > k.r.s.natvam >>>>> abhyaagata.h >>>>> >>>>> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references? >>>>> >>>>> Dominic Goodall >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Sun Nov 1 02:23:58 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sun, 01 Nov 09 07:53:58 +0530 Subject: yugas and colours In-Reply-To: <4AECC490.1010202@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227087799.23782.17591043522879544174.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4351 Lines: 125 01.11.09 Thanks for the correction! I am extremely sorry for the inadvertent posting. I could consult Mitchiner's Introduction only this morning. The origin of the idea .still, remains worth investigating. Referring to the?Mahabharata, i think, is still risky barring where it agrees with the later Vedic texts.?The Vishnudharmottara may be better. It belongs to the extreme north, perhaps.??Does the striking similarity between?Trika and the views of the Siddhantins of the South speak of good connectivity? Best DB ________________________________ From: Luis Gonzalez-Reimann To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Sun, 1 November, 2009 4:43:20 AM Subject: Re: yugas and colours But Mitchiner dates the Yuga Purana to the 1st century BCE, not the 5th century CE. Pingree dates it to the same century as Mitchiner, or possibly to the following one. Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann _____ on 10/31/2009 10:11 AM Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > It is all right that the century belongs to the CE. Still a southern claim to the origin of the idea is not, perhaps, reduced by that. I checked the Yugapur??a (edMitchiner, AS,Calcutta1986 BI 312).but did not find any reference to the colour of the yugas. That means the absence of the idea in the North till the 5th Cent.CE (YP so dated/Mitchiner). The extant Bh?gavata could not have been redacted in the North. Its flowery classical k?vya style was a dead thing in the North during the time when it is supposed to have been redacted from a lost older Bh?gavata. The South can make a strong claim. > Best > DB > > ________________________________ > From: George Hart > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Sent: Sat, 31 October, 2009 9:23:40 PM > Subject: Re: yugas and colours > > Of course it's CE, not BCE.? None of the Tamil works can be dated to BCE -- though we do have inscriptions from the first couple centuries BCE. > > The Tamil is > > paaz ena kaal ena paaku ena onRu ena pari.3-77 > iraNTu ena muunRu ena naanku ena aintu ena pari.3-78 > aaRu ena eezu ena eTTu ena toNTu ena pari.3-79 > naalvakai uuzi eN naviRRum ciRappinai pari.3-80 > ce kaN kaari karu kaN veLLai pari.3-81 > pon kaN paccai pai kaN maaal pari.3-82 > > (Malten's transcription) > > "Black" is from kaari, ultimately from karu, the standard word for "black."? "Dark" is maal, which can mean "blackness" or "greatness," "great man," "Visnu."? "Dark one with green eyes" could also mean "Green-eyed Visnu!" -- which might make more sense, as "black" has already been used.? The word for "green" can also mean "yellow." > > George Hart > > On Oct 31, 2009, at 8:00 AM, JKirkpatrick wrote: > >? >> I'm curious as to what are the words for "black" and "dark" in >> this typology? >> The usual colors cropping up in such typologies are white, red, >> yellow, and blue/green/black. >> >> JK >> ============= >> >> On Behalf Of George Hart >> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 8:04 AM >> >> >> From ParipaTal 3, about the 3rd or 4th century BCE: >> >> Your wonder is such that you are counted through four kinds of >> eons: zero, quarter, half, one, two three, four, five, six, >> seven, eight, nine!? Black one with red eyes!? White one with >> black eyes!? Green one with golden eyes!? Dark one with green >> eyes! >> >> George Hart >> >> On Oct 30, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Dominic Goodall wrote: >> >>? ? >>> Dear all, >>> >>> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes >>>? ? ? >> colour in >>? ? >>> each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na? >>> >>> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato >>>? ? ? >> 'nuyuga.m >>? ? >>> tanuu.h >>> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m >>>? ? ? >> k.r.s.nataa.m >>? ? >>> gata.h >>> >>> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of >>>? ? ? >> the >>? ? >>> Mahaabhaarata, e.g. >>> >>> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge >>>? ? ? >> raktataa.m >>? ? >>> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam >>> abhyaagata.h >>> >>> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references? >>> >>> Dominic Goodall >>>? ? ? > > > >? ? ? Try the new Yahoo! India Homepage. Click here. http://in.yahoo.com/trynew > >? Keep up with people you care about with Yahoo! India Mail. Learn how. http://in.overview.mail.yahoo.com/connectmore From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Sun Nov 1 12:00:31 2009 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Sun, 01 Nov 09 17:30:31 +0530 Subject: yugas and colours In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087806.23782.18021850687616860986.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4712 Lines: 164 Dear all, Thank you for all those helpful replies. My doubt is laid to rest. Since I was aware of this notion only from the Bhaagavatapuraa.na, I had been wondering whether it could really already be the basis for a trope in a Cambodian inscription dated to "saka 801 (K. 713). Thanks to all these reponses, it is now quite clear to me that it can. The verse in question (verse 25) reads: sa.mrak.sati k.siti.m yatra "saure"s "sauklyam bhaved yadi ida.m yuga.m k.rtayuga.m yathaivaabhaati sarvvathaa I wasn't convinced by what the printed translations make of this, and I now feel more confident that it should indeed be understood to mean something like this: "If, with him protecting the earth, "Sauri were white [rather than being K.r.s.na], then this age would appear to be in every respect like the K.rtayuga [although it is in fact of course the Kaliyuga]." Dominic Goodall On 1 Nov 2009, at 17:03, Stella Sandahl wrote: > Regarding the problem of the exact meaning of colours there is the > excellent article by Jean Filliozat: "Classement des coleurs et des > lumi?res en sanskrit" in Bulletin de l'Ecole Pratique des Hautes > Etudes, IVe section, Paris 1955. See also the chapter "Les coleurs > des sentiments" in my book Le GItagovinda. Tradition et innovation > dans le kAvya, Stockholm 1977, pp.144-154. > Best > Stella Sandahl > -- > Stella Sandahl > ssandahl at sympatico.ca > > > > On 31-Oct-09, at 9:50 PM, JKirkpatrick wrote: > >> Here you can see a photo of durva grass: >> http://tinyurl.com/yamfzx2 >> >> It is (by our naming) "green". One of the problems with colors is >> that black, blue and green often are conflated in the same term. >> Or "dark" might mean green. >> And in some areas green and yellow share the same term. >> So here, I'd guess (in terms of the way 'we" perceive color), >> dvapara would be green, not >> "black as durva grass". >> >> krta--color of conch or milk--= white >> treta--like gold = yellow >> dvapara --durva grass = green (elsewhere, blue or dark blue) >> kali= kaajal--usually there's little variation with real black. >> >> The missing color here is red. >> >> But, like classification of foods according to their warmth or >> coldness, dryness or moisture, etc., these color classifications >> will show variation. >> >> Joanna K. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of >> Luis Gonzalez-Reimann >> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 6:34 PM >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Subject: Re: yugas and colours >> >> The /Balacarita/ of Bhasa also mentions Narayana/Visnu's changing >> colors in the yugas in its opening lines: >> >> Krta: the color of conch or milk >> Treta: shiny like gold >> Dvapara: black as durva grass >> Kali: black as collyrium >> >> Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann >> _____ >> >> on 10/31/2009 1:30 PM Luis Gonzalez-Reimann wrote: >>> The colors in 3.148, mentioned by Harunaga, are: >>> >>> Krta: white >>> Treta: red >>> Dvapara: yellow >>> Kali: black >>> >>> But there is a different version in Mbh 3.187.31: >>> >>> Krta: white >>> Treta: yellow >>> Dvapara: red >>> Kali: black >>> >>> Where the colors for Treta and Dvapara are reversed. >>> >>> I discuss this in my book /The Mahabharata and the Yugas/ (pp. >> 103, >>> 114-116). >>> >>> Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann >>> _____ >>> >>> on 10/31/2009 12:29 PM Harunaga Isaacson wrote: >>>> And it is in the MBh, not only in passages excluded from the >> critical >>>> edition (such as that which DG quoted), but also in 3.148 >> ("sukla in >>>> vs. 16, rakta in 23, piita in 26, and k.r.s.na in 33). >>>> >>>> Harunaga Isaacson >>>> >>>> >>>> Peter Bisschop wrote: >>>>> It is found in the Vi.s.nudharma (edition R. Gruenendahl): >>>>> 104.27 ("sukla), 104.35 (rakta), 104.38 (piita), 104.45 >> (k.r.s.na) >>>>> >>>>> Peter Bisschop >>>>> >>>>> Quoting Dominic Goodall : >>>>> >>>>>> Dear all, >>>>>> >>>>>> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes >> colour >>>>>> in each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na? >>>>>> >>>>>> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato >> 'nuyuga.m >>>>>> tanuu.h >>>>>> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m >> k.r.s.nataa.m >>>>>> gata.h >>>>>> >>>>>> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text >> of the >>>>>> Mahaabhaarata, e.g. >>>>>> >>>>>> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge >>>>>> raktataa.m >>>>>> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan >> k.r.s.natvam >>>>>> abhyaagata.h >>>>>> >>>>>> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references? >>>>>> >>>>>> Dominic Goodall >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Nov 1 19:48:00 2009 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 01 Nov 09 20:48:00 +0100 Subject: Fwd: Alexander Piatigorsky's Funeral In-Reply-To: <360016.35560.qm@web24007.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227087809.23782.17549579885990172072.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 392 Lines: 19 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Alex Watson Date: 2009/11/1 Subject: Alexander Piatigorsky's Funeral Mrs. Piatigorsky has asked me to inform people that Professor Piatigorsky's funeral will be at: 2.30 on Thursday 5th November 2009, Gunnersbury Cemetery Chapel, Gunnersbury Cemetery, 143 Gunnersbury Ave, London, W3 8LE. Yours Alex Watson From jkirk at SPRO.NET Mon Nov 2 17:09:14 2009 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 09 10:09:14 -0700 Subject: yugas and colours In-Reply-To: <20091102T111606Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227087814.23782.13098912689560428997.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2733 Lines: 73 Allen and all, Compare the image found here of what we call Bermuda grass http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2699176990101979459pgYt Qh and the images found here: http://www.tropicalforages.info/key/Forages/Media/Html/Cynodon_da ctylon.htm The 2d link indicates that there are many types of Cynodon dactylon, and the Bermuda type that we know here is not what the classic texts refer to. BTW, my remarks about colors (about which I guess I wasn't being clear) were remarks on the basic social color lexicon in Indian culture that is the varna colors usually found in many contexts, including the 3 gunas. So, when I was referring to the conflation of blue, green and black I wasn't referring only to durva but to the traditional usages of color terms (aside from "our" color term lexicon which is incredibly complex and expands regularly). See Berlin and Kay (cited before) on this conflation tendency, which is fairly widespread across unrelated cultures. They are still doing research on this topic. Another simpler conflation is yellow & green as one term, as opposed to what "we" see as distinct colors. See Nicholas J. Allen's article, for ex.: 1998c Varnas, colours and functions: expanding Dum?zil?s schema. Z. f?r Religionswissenschaft 6: 163-177. Joanna ========================================= Durva, scientific name Cynodon dactylon, is commonly known in English-speaking countries as Bermuda grass (although it appears sometimes other Cynodons are thrown in with it). It is common both as a cultivated lawn grass and an escapee and agricultural weed. Interestingly, some of the online sources describe it as "gray-green." But to judge from the numerous pictures that appear when one searches "Bermuda grass" on Google Images, the grayish tinge appears when it is growing in dry circumstances; the images showing it lush and well watered and fertilized (e.g. for turf) show it a vigorous and fairly dark green right in the middle spectrum of what Anglophones would call green, with no leaning towards the yellow or blue. I don't see any quite as dark as in the image Joanna linked to. But I suspect the Indians would probably think of its archetypal and typical color as the one it wears during the monsoon. Allen >>> JKirkpatrick 10/31/2009 9:50:28 PM >>> Here you can see a photo of durva grass: http://tinyurl.com/yamfzx2 It is (by our naming) "green". One of the problems with colors is that black, blue and green often are conflated in the same term. Or "dark" might mean green. And in some areas green and yellow share the same term. So here, I'd guess (in terms of the way 'we" perceive color), dvapara would be green, not "black as durva grass". From athr at LOC.GOV Mon Nov 2 16:16:06 2009 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 09 11:16:06 -0500 Subject: yugas and colours Message-ID: <161227087811.23782.5929640070424209443.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1397 Lines: 19 Durva, scientific name Cynodon dactylon, is commonly known in English-speaking countries as Bermuda grass (although it appears sometimes other Cynodons are thrown in with it). It is common both as a cultivated lawn grass and an escapee and agricultural weed. Interestingly, some of the online sources describe it as "gray-green." But to judge from the numerous pictures that appear when one searches "Bermuda grass" on Google Images, the grayish tinge appears when it is growing in dry circumstances; the images showing it lush and well watered and fertilized (e.g. for turf) show it a vigorous and fairly dark green right in the middle spectrum of what Anglophones would call green, with no leaning towards the yellow or blue. I don't see any quite as dark as in the image Joanna linked to. But I suspect the Indians would probably think of its archetypal and typical color as the one it wears during the monsoon. Allen >>> JKirkpatrick 10/31/2009 9:50:28 PM >>> Here you can see a photo of durva grass: http://tinyurl.com/yamfzx2 It is (by our naming) "green". One of the problems with colors is that black, blue and green often are conflated in the same term. Or "dark" might mean green. And in some areas green and yellow share the same term. So here, I'd guess (in terms of the way 'we" perceive color), dvapara would be green, not "black as durva grass". From tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU Tue Nov 3 02:12:16 2009 From: tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU (Gary Tubb) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 09 20:12:16 -0600 Subject: Oxford Lecturership in Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227087817.23782.8416707310926350563.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1562 Lines: 17 The following message is forwarded to the list at the request of Christopher Minkowski, Oriental Studies, Oxford: *UNIVERSITY OF OXFORD* *FACULTY OF ORIENTAL STUDIES* *Departmental Lecturership in Sanskrit* Salary Grade 7, ?28,839 ? ?35,469 per annum Applications are invited for a teaching position in Sanskrit. This fixed-term post is to commence on 1 January 2010 for six months. The principal duties of the post are to give lectures and classes in Sanskrit during the absence of the current postholder, and to examine and participate in the admissions exercises for three masters degrees. Candidates must have a primary field of expertise in Sanskrit; should hold, or be working towards, a doctorate in a field relevant to the study of pre-modern India, and be able to provide evidence of published, or soon to be published research; and must be able to teach and examine Sanskrit from beginners through to advanced level. Further particulars, including details of how to apply, should be obtained from _www.admin.ox.ac.uk/fp/ _ or from the office of The Faculty Board Secretary, Oriental Institute, Pusey Lane, Oxford, OX1 2LE, tel. +44 1865 288202; fax no. +44-(0)1865-278190; e-mail orient at orinst.ox.ac.uk . Applications and references should reach the Faculty Board Secretary at the address given above, to arrive not later than *13 November 2009*. Interviews will be held as soon as possible after the closing date. The University is an equal opportunities employer. From tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU Tue Nov 3 02:16:04 2009 From: tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU (Gary Tubb) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 09 20:16:04 -0600 Subject: Chayavyakhya of Nagesha Message-ID: <161227087819.23782.7032995002383182882.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 330 Lines: 15 The following message is forwarded to the list by request: I am looking for Nagesha's commentary on the yogasutras, called Chayavyakhya. I thought someone on your list would be able to point me to it. Searching on the internet only yielded references to it, but not to the published text. Thanks, Naresh vaak.wordpress.com From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Tue Nov 3 05:08:22 2009 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 09 21:08:22 -0800 Subject: Chayavyakhya of Nagesha In-Reply-To: <29532_1257214571_1257214571_4AEF9264.6070007@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227087821.23782.7982515028651386856.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 853 Lines: 22 According to Ram Shankar Bhattacharya (An Introduction to the Yogasutra,Delhi & Varanasi: Bharatiya Vidya Prakasana, p. 47) is published in the Bombay Sanskrit and Prakrit Series as vol. no, XLVI. The same source informs us on pp. 43 and 69 that Nage;sa wrote two commentaries on the Yogasuutra and that the Chaayaa is the larger one. It is worth investigating if the Chaayaa commentary actually comes from Nage;sa's student Vaidyanaatha Paayagu.n.de, since many of the published commentaries of Vaidyanaatha bear the title Chaayaa. ashok aklujkar On 11/2/09 6:16 PM, Naresh, <> vaak.wordpress.com>, wrote: > I am looking for Nagesha's commentary on the yogasutras, called > Chayavyakhya. I thought someone on your list would be able to point me > to it. Searching on the internet only yielded references to it, but > not to the published text. From conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Tue Nov 3 15:31:46 2009 From: conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Frank Conlon) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 09 07:31:46 -0800 Subject: Obituaries for Friedhelm Hardy (1943-2004) ? In-Reply-To: <4AF0497C.2060005@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <161227087828.23782.9433889496721400931.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 420 Lines: 18 Dear Friends, The following note was posted on H-ASIA which was based on Hardy's own website, but then supplemented. Frank Frank F. Conlon Professor Emeritus of History, South Asian Studies & Comparative Religion University of Washington Seattle, WA 98195-3560 USA Co-editor, H-ASIA Managing Director, Bibliography of Asian Studies Online -------------------------------------------------------------- From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Tue Nov 3 12:59:41 2009 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 09 13:59:41 +0100 Subject: Obituaries for Friedhelm Hardy? Message-ID: <161227087823.23782.1872169085378397710.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 708 Lines: 26 Dear All, is there any obituary available online for the late Friedhelm Hardy, who wrote the book /Viraha-bhakti : the Early History of K???a Devotion in South India/, Oxford University Press, 1983. The only one I have been able to find is the short announcement by Richard Gombrich, available at: The BnF (Biblioth?que Nationale de France) seems to think he is still alive: It might also be the case with the Library of Congress , unless I misunderstand the codes used: Thanks for any pointers -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS, University Paris-Diderot) From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Tue Nov 3 15:17:16 2009 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 09 16:17:16 +0100 Subject: Obituaries for Friedhelm Hardy (1943-2004) ? In-Reply-To: <4AF0293D.80100@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <161227087826.23782.2306874617735635755.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1010 Lines: 42 Dear All, it seems that the link I have given to the "notice" for Friedhelm Hardy on the BnF server has only temporary validity. Here is a more permanent one: -- JLC Jean-Luc Chevillard a ?crit : > Dear All, > > is there any obituary available online for the late Friedhelm Hardy, > who wrote the book /Viraha-bhakti : the Early History of K???a > Devotion in South India/, Oxford University Press, 1983. > > The only one I have been able to find is the short announcement by > Richard Gombrich, available at: > > > > The BnF (Biblioth?que Nationale de France) seems to think he is still > alive: > > > > > > It might also be the case with the Library of Congress > , unless I misunderstand the codes used: > > > Thanks for any pointers > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS, University Paris-Diderot) > From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Wed Nov 4 20:40:47 2009 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 09 12:40:47 -0800 Subject: Magha Message-ID: <161227087833.23782.5761016743354539444.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 109 Lines: 5 Does anyone know of any recent work on or translations of Magha's Sisupalavadha? Thanks -- George Hart From jwn3y at CMS.MAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU Wed Nov 4 21:12:10 2009 From: jwn3y at CMS.MAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU (John William Nemec) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 09 16:12:10 -0500 Subject: Magha In-Reply-To: <2B76C073-08E8-4DA6-B737-B95C7289B3AB@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227087835.23782.362904797916658606.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 449 Lines: 19 The Clay Sanskrit Library lists this as a title to be put forward by Paul Dundas. I wonder what the fate of this volume will be, given the recently-announced discontinuation of the CSL. J.N. __________________________________ John Nemec, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Indian Religions and South Asian Studies Dept. of Religious Studies University of Virginia 120 Halsey Hall Charlottesville, VA 22911 (USA) nemec at virginia.edu +1-434-924-6716 From birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT Thu Nov 5 13:24:16 2009 From: birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Birgit Kellner) Date: Thu, 05 Nov 09 14:24:16 +0100 Subject: Publication announcement (WSTB): Delhey, Sam=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81hit=C4=81__Bh=C5=ABmi=E1=B8=A5;?= Tauscher, Gondhla catalogue, etc. Message-ID: <161227087837.23782.314072134106401714.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3821 Lines: 81 Dear colleagues, [apologies for cross-posting] I am delighted to announce the publication of Martin Delhey's edition and partial German translation of the Sam?hit? Bh?mi? of the Yog?c?rabh?mi as volume 73 of the WSTB, published in Vienna: Martin Delhey, "Sam?hit? Bh?mi? " Das Kapitel ?ber die meditative Versenkung im Grundteil der Yog?c?rabh?mi (2009) 521p. ISBN 13: 978-3-902501-11-0. EUR 28.00. (For a description of the content, see further below.) The more Tibetologically inclined among you may also be interested to learn about (or be reminded of) the two preceding WSTB publications: Helmut Tauscher's catalogue of the Gondhla Proto-Kanjur (no. 72), and proceedings of a conference on the cultural history of Western Tibet, jointly held by the China Tibetology Research Center and the University of Vienna, edited by Deborah Klimburg-Salter, Junyan Liang & Helmut Tauscher et als. (no. 71) For further information and orders, see the WSTB website: http://www.istb.univie.ac.at/cgi-bin/wstb/wstb.cgi Note: customers from outside Europe are advised to select PayPal as a payment option. Bank fees for checks are significantly higher than PayPal fees. With best regards, Dr. Birgit Kellner Arbeitskreis f?r Tibetische und Buddhistische Studien Universit?t Wien - Association for Tibetan and Buddhist Studies, University of Vienna Austria ------------------------------- Martin Delhey, "Sam?hit? Bh?mi? " Das Kapitel ?ber die meditative Versenkung im Grundteil der Yog?c?rabh?mi (2009) 521p. ISBN 13: 978-3-902501-11-0. EUR 28.00. [italics omitted in the following] The Yog?c?rabh?mi (YBh), an anonymous compilation belonging perhaps to the 4th century CE, is an invaluable source of information on Indian Buddhist scholasticism (abhidharma). At the same time, it also marks the beginning of the Yog?c?ra school, one of the two main schools of Indian Mah?y?na thought. Approximately one half of this extremely extensive work is preserved in Sanskrit original. These materials are indispensible for gaining a better understanding of the YBh in its original literary, dogmatic and historical context. Still, large parts of them are completely inaccessible to the public, or available only in unsatisfactory editions. This two-volume publication contributes towards filling this gap with an editio princeps of the Sam?hit? Bh?mi?, one of the chapters of the so-called Basic Section of the YBh. As its title indicates, this chapter deals with deep meditative concentration in which one temporarily transcends the sphere of everyday consciousness, that is, the sphere of sensual desire (k?madh?tu). Rather than presenting a manual for meditative practice, the anonymous authors are predominantly concerned with an exegetical and doctrinal, yet highly creative treatment of their subject-matter. For this chapter of the YBh, only one Sanskrit manuscript is known, available only in low-quality photographs. In view of this rather difficult situation, the present work focuses on editorial aspects and presents both a diplomatic and a critical edition of the Sanskrit text, the latter making full use of the Tibetan and Chinese translations and of other secondary materials including canonical sources that the authors frequently cite. An edition of the especially important Tibetan translation is also provided. In addition, the study contains an annotated partial German translation and a complete structural analysis of the chapter. The introductory chapters deal, among others, with previous research, features of the manuscript, the language of the text and methodological problems, and discuss selected aspects of the contents of the Sam?hit? Bh?mi?. Indices of selected names, words and technical terms and of selected primary text passages are included. From sellmers at GMX.DE Thu Nov 5 17:40:53 2009 From: sellmers at GMX.DE (Sven Sellmer) Date: Thu, 05 Nov 09 18:40:53 +0100 Subject: Magha In-Reply-To: <2B76C073-08E8-4DA6-B737-B95C7289B3AB@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227087840.23782.706161974090343835.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 718 Lines: 29 There is a study in Polish: not very recent, but perhaps not so widely known: Anna Trynkowska: Struktura opis?w w "Zabiciu ?isiupali" Maghy [The structure of the descriptions in Magha's "Killing of ?i?up?la"]. Warsaw 2004 (Monografie Studi?w Indologicznych 1). It also includes a Polish translation of the analyzed descriptions. Best wishes, Sven Sellmer ************************************ Dr. Sven Sellmer Adam Mickiewicz University Institute of Oriental Studies South Asia Unit ul. 28 czerwca 1956 nr 198 61-485 Pozna? POLAND sven at amu.edu.pl Am 04.11.2009 um 21:40 schrieb George Hart: > Does anyone know of any recent work on or translations of Magha's > Sisupalavadha? Thanks -- George Hart From james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM Thu Nov 5 23:16:59 2009 From: james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM (James Hartzell) Date: Fri, 06 Nov 09 01:16:59 +0200 Subject: contact info request Message-ID: <161227087842.23782.1283770407304671928.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 211 Lines: 9 Colleagues Could some one send me (off list) the most recent contact details for Prof. Ram Karan Sharma? I'm hoping he also has an email address; if not a phone number would be great. Thanks James Hartzell From annamisia at YAHOO.COM Fri Nov 6 12:52:46 2009 From: annamisia at YAHOO.COM (Anna A. Slaczka) Date: Fri, 06 Nov 09 04:52:46 -0800 Subject: reincarnated Hindu saints In-Reply-To: <070673BD72CD0248A292DC64769ECDBF21CC66@exchangesrv1.hum2005.hum.ku.dk> Message-ID: <161227087848.23782.10329058006748160116.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1678 Lines: 53 Dear Tim, The first thing that comes to my mind is the South Indian guru Satya Sai Baba who, apart from being seen as an avatar, is also considered an incarnation of the Sai Baba of Shirdi. Hope this helps, Anna Slaczka. Dr. Anna A. Slaczka Curator of Indian Art Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam The Netherlands --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Ulrich T. Kragh wrote: > From: Ulrich T. Kragh > Subject: reincarnated Hindu saints > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Friday, November 6, 2009, 1:40 PM > In Mahayana Buddhism, and > particularly in Tibetan Buddhism, there is the common belief > that earlier saints can be reincarnated, or - avoiding the > samsarically loaded word "reincarnated - literally > 'emanated' (nirmita/nirmitaka/nirmika), in the form of later > holy men and women. I am here not referring to the notion > that a saint may be an embodiment of a deity, like the Hindu > notion of avatAra, which also is included in the Buddhist > notion of nirmita. Rather, I am thinking of cases where a > concrete person is said to be a reincarnation of a former > concrete person. For example, the fifteenth-century Tibetan > female saint Samding Dorje Phagmo Chokyi Dronma was said to > be a reincarnation of the Indian female saint LaksmIMkarA. > > My question: are there any comparable cases in Hinduism? If > yes, it would be nice with a bibliographical reference. > > With best regards, > Tim > > Dr. Ulrich Timme Kragh > Assistant Professor > Geumgang Center for Buddhist Studies > Geumgang University, Dae-myeong Ri, Sang-wol Myeon > Nonsan-si, Chungnam 320-931, Republic of Korea > Tel. +82-41-731 3618 > From cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET Fri Nov 6 11:56:03 2009 From: cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET (George Cardona) Date: Fri, 06 Nov 09 06:56:03 -0500 Subject: contact info request Message-ID: <161227087844.23782.16008778186960257763.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 476 Lines: 18 His email address is: "Ramkaran Sharma" , George Cardona -----Original Message----- >From: James Hartzell >Sent: Nov 5, 2009 6:16 PM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: contact info request > >Colleagues >Could some one send me (off list) the most recent contact details for Prof. >Ram Karan Sharma? I'm hoping he also has an email address; if not a phone >number would be great. >Thanks >James Hartzell From utkragh at HUM.KU.DK Fri Nov 6 12:40:18 2009 From: utkragh at HUM.KU.DK (Ulrich T. Kragh) Date: Fri, 06 Nov 09 13:40:18 +0100 Subject: reincarnated Hindu saints Message-ID: <161227087846.23782.1373354992583164482.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1078 Lines: 16 In Mahayana Buddhism, and particularly in Tibetan Buddhism, there is the common belief that earlier saints can be reincarnated, or - avoiding the samsarically loaded word "reincarnated - literally 'emanated' (nirmita/nirmitaka/nirmika), in the form of later holy men and women. I am here not referring to the notion that a saint may be an embodiment of a deity, like the Hindu notion of avatAra, which also is included in the Buddhist notion of nirmita. Rather, I am thinking of cases where a concrete person is said to be a reincarnation of a former concrete person. For example, the fifteenth-century Tibetan female saint Samding Dorje Phagmo Chokyi Dronma was said to be a reincarnation of the Indian female saint LaksmIMkarA. My question: are there any comparable cases in Hinduism? If yes, it would be nice with a bibliographical reference. With best regards, Tim Dr. Ulrich Timme Kragh Assistant Professor Geumgang Center for Buddhist Studies Geumgang University, Dae-myeong Ri, Sang-wol Myeon Nonsan-si, Chungnam 320-931, Republic of Korea Tel. +82-41-731 3618 From ocattedra at YAHOO.COM.AR Sun Nov 8 15:27:38 2009 From: ocattedra at YAHOO.COM.AR (olivia cattedra) Date: Sun, 08 Nov 09 07:27:38 -0800 Subject: contact Ruiz Calderon In-Reply-To: <2116269.1257508564023.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <161227087851.23782.3010105375924421285.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 266 Lines: 18 Dear Colleagues, Please, could some one send me or put me in contact with prof. Javier Ruiz Calderon? thank you very much, Prof. Dr. Olivia Cattedra. Yahoo! Cocina Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina. http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/ From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET Mon Nov 9 19:20:26 2009 From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 09 19:20:26 +0000 Subject: STIMW Conference Message-ID: <161227087853.23782.9565944252240256946.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1163 Lines: 41 STIMW Conference: Call for Papers STIMW The Sanskrit Tradition in the Modern World 26th Annual STIMW Symposium Fri 28 May 2010 11am-5pm University of Manchester CALL FOR PAPERS Offers of papers by 11 Dec 2009 please to Dr Jacqueline Suthren Hirst Religions and Theology, Samuel Alexander, University of Manchester, Oxford Road, Manchester, M13 9PL jacqueline.hirst at manchester.ac.uk STIMW offers a forum for the discussion of papers on varied aspects of Indian religions. Papers have been presented by leading scholars in the field as well as by research students. Papers are sent to participants in advance, so that they can be read and discussed in detail. They are available to those who cannot attend for a small charge. Please note that this year there will also be a seminar on Indo-European/Indo-Aryan matters in Manchester on Thurs 27 May, so you might like to consider coming to both. For further details, see http://www.arts.manchester.ac.uk/stimw To join the mailing list, please email hazel.collinson at postgrad.manchester.ac.uk From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Thu Nov 12 08:32:22 2009 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 09 09:32:22 +0100 Subject: Fw: Muni Shri Jambuvijayji Passed away - A Great Loss to the entire Jain Community Message-ID: <161227087855.23782.17262404120953044499.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4061 Lines: 94 Sad News: ---- Original Message ----- From: Pravin K Shah To: JAINA_teachers at yahoogroups.com ; JAINA Headquarters Cc: Lata Champsee Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 7:38 AM Subject: Muni Shri Jambuvijayji Passed away - A Great Loss to the entire Jain Community Agam Prabhavak, an eminent research scholar, most respected Jain monk by all sects of Jainism and by the scholars of South Asian regions, Muni Shri Jambu Vijayji passed away early this morning (November 12, 2009 - Thursday - Indian time). Early morning, Muni Shri Jambu Vijayji was traveling on foot along with other monks from Balotra (a town in Rajsthan) to Jesalmer and they were hit by a high speed truck. Two munis, Jambuvijayji and Namaskarvijayji died in the accident and others are seriously injured. Jambuvijayji was 87 years old. A great loss not only to the entire Jain community but also to the entire South Asian Religion Research Scholars. I do not have any further detail at this time but will keep you informed as we receive further information. Pravin K. Shah Jaina Education Committee +1 919-859-4994 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ A short summary of Muni Shri Jambuvijayji's Scholarly Work Muni Shri Jambuvijayaji continued the pioneering research work that was started by late Muni Shri Punyavijayji Both Muni Shri Punyavijayji and Shri Jambuvijayji have worked all their life in the compilation and publication of our ancient Jain ?gam literature and cataloging ancient Jain Jn?n Bhand?rs Many learned scholars worked under the leadership of these two Munis in compilation and publication of our most authentic literary treasurer. The partial list of such scholars are; Muni Shri Dharmachandvijay, Late Pundit Shri Bechardas Doshi, Late Pundit Shri Amrutlal Bhojak, Late Pundit Shri Dalsukh Malvania, Dr. Sagarmal Jain, Dr. Nagin Shah, Late Dr. Harivallabh Bhayani, Pundit Rupendra Pagariya, Pundit Suresh Sisodiya, Dr. V M Kulkarni, and Dr. Vasudevsharan Agrawal. The most of their Scholarly Work (listed below) of these two Munis were published under Jain ?gam Granth M?l? Series by Shri Mah?vir Jain Vidy?laya - Mumbai, Shri Bhogilal Laherchand Institute-Delhi and other institutes. The Education Committee of Jaina has made all their literature available on Jain eLibrary website (www.jaineLibrary.org) in the form of E-Books. Their literary work consist more than 25,000 pages. List of Books Published under Late Muni Shri Punya Vijayji and Shri Jambu Vijayji: Viyah_pannati_suttam Part-1 Viyah_pannati_suttam Part-2 Viyah_pannati_suttam Part-3 Nayadhamma_kahao Suyagdang_sutra Dasveyaliya_suttam, Uttarjzhayanaim, Avassay_suttam Sthanang_sutra Part-1 Sthanang_sutra Part-2 Sthanang_sutra Part-3 Painnay Suttai Part-1 Painnay Suttai Part-2 Painnay Suttai Part-3 Nandisutt And Anuogddaraim Pannavana Suttam Part-1 Pannavana Suttam Part-2 Anuyogdwar_sutra Part-1 Anuyogdwar_sutra Part-2 Dwadsharam Naychakram Part-1 Dwadsharam Naychakram Part-2 Dwadsharam Naychakram Part-3 Panch_sutrakam with Tika Aendra Stuti Chaturvinshika Sah Swo Vivran Siddhahem_sabdanushasana Sah swopagya (San) Laghuvrutti Mahapacchakkhan Painniyam Divsagar_pannatti Painnayam Tandulveyaliya Painnayam Samvayang_sutram Stree Nirvan Kevalibhukti Prakarane Surimantra Kalp Samucchaya Thanangsuttam And Samvayangsuttam Part-3 Ayarang_suttam (Acharang_sutra) Mahanisiha Suya Khandham Nandisuttam Dasakalia_suttam Sutrakrutang_sutra Vol-1 Hastalikhit Granthsuchi Part-1 Hastalikhit Granthsuchi Part-2 Hastalikhit Granthsuchi Part-3 ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Fri Nov 13 09:40:55 2009 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 09 10:40:55 +0100 Subject: GRETIL update #360 Message-ID: <161227087857.23782.10377790565185287952.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 949 Lines: 34 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Abhayakaragupta: Nispannayogavali, chap. 1 : title corrected (was: Aksobhyamanjuvajra) Jayatirtha: Nyayasudha, Adhyaya 1 (revised) Jayatirtha: Nyayasudha, Adhyaya 2, Pada 1 Jnanalokalamkara __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET Fri Nov 13 22:54:40 2009 From: vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 09 17:54:40 -0500 Subject: NYTimes review of 2 Exhibitions of Jain Art Message-ID: <161227087864.23782.13986090665910125443.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 441 Lines: 18 Two exhibitions of Jain art in New York City: "Victorious Ones: Jain Images of Perfection" runs through Feb. 15 at the Rubin Museum of Art, 150 West 17th Street, Manhattan and "Peaceful Conquerors: Jain Manuscript Painting" runs through March 28 at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, metmuseum.org. are reviewed in the NYTimes, including an online slideshow. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/13/arts/design/13jain.html?_r=1 Dan Lusthaus From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Fri Nov 13 23:31:32 2009 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (George Thompson) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 09 18:31:32 -0500 Subject: NYTimes review of 2 Exhibitions of Jain Art In-Reply-To: <003e01ca64b4$4878d610$2101a8c0@Dan> Message-ID: <161227087866.23782.1704991870043809530.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 681 Lines: 30 Hello Dan, This is a good article by a good art critic, Holland Cotter. He is also a good writer. And this piece is accompanied by a nice slide show. Beautiful work. George Thompson Dan Lusthaus wrote: > Two exhibitions of Jain art in New York City: > > "Victorious Ones: Jain Images of Perfection" runs through Feb. 15 at the > Rubin Museum of Art, 150 West 17th Street, Manhattan > > and > > "Peaceful Conquerors: Jain Manuscript Painting" runs through March 28 > at the > Metropolitan Museum of Art, metmuseum.org. > > are reviewed in the NYTimes, including an online slideshow. > > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/13/arts/design/13jain.html?_r=1 > > Dan Lusthaus > From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM Fri Nov 13 18:38:32 2009 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 09 18:38:32 +0000 Subject: GRETIL update #360 Message-ID: <161227087859.23782.15103470527286867100.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 275 Lines: 11 Dear Reinhold, This latest addition of the Jnanalokalamkara-sutra to GRETIL you have just announced is very timely. I was just about to start inputting the text for my own immediate use. So many thanks for saving me the time and effort ! Best wishes, Stephen Hodge From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Fri Nov 13 23:40:36 2009 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Sat, 14 Nov 09 00:40:36 +0100 Subject: AW: GRETIL update #360 Message-ID: <161227087868.23782.5517171111252216454.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 596 Lines: 28 Dear Stephen, I'm glad to hear the text came in time. No need to thank me. GRETIL is what contributors make it. Best wishes, Reinhold Gr?nendahl ________________________________ Von: Indology im Auftrag von Stephen Hodge Gesendet: Fr 13.11.2009 19:38 An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Betreff: Re: GRETIL update #360 Dear Reinhold, This latest addition of the Jnanalokalamkara-sutra to GRETIL you have just announced is very timely. I was just about to start inputting the text for my own immediate use. So many thanks for saving me the time and effort ! Best wishes, Stephen Hodge From mkmfolk at GMAIL.COM Fri Nov 13 22:39:43 2009 From: mkmfolk at GMAIL.COM (Mahendra Kumar Mishra) Date: Sat, 14 Nov 09 04:09:43 +0530 Subject: GRETIL update #360 In-Reply-To: <0A391982F06A46778761855242A7A379@zen> Message-ID: <161227087861.23782.7433429568306590553.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1312 Lines: 44 My book Oral Epics of kalahandi has ben published by National Folklore Support Center, Chennai.India. Any body who is interested in the book can be ordered to the director www.indianfolklore.org ( muthu at indianfolklore.org Besides, if any body want to know of this book can contact me in my e mail mkmfolk at gmail.com The book is all about the forest culture and agriculture narratives of the tribal people of Kalahandi related to their socio- cultural epic narration, ritual, culture hero, gods and goddesses, mythic heroes , epic singers, caste genealogies and drought song. It is the out come of a long term research taken up by me in Kalahandi. Mahendra K Mishra Orissa, India On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 12:08 AM, Stephen Hodge < s.hodge at padmacholing.plus.com> wrote: > Dear Reinhold, > > This latest addition of the Jnanalokalamkara-sutra to GRETIL you have just > announced is very timely. I was just about to start inputting the text for > my own immediate use. So many thanks for saving me the time and effort ! > > Best wishes, > Stephen Hodge > -- Dr Mahendra Kumar Mishra State SC/ST and Minority Education Coordinator, Unit-V OPEPA Residential Address: D-9 Flat Kalpana Area Bhubaneswar 751014,India phone 91+674-2310167(r) 094376-36436(m) From zysk at HUM.KU.DK Mon Nov 16 09:38:01 2009 From: zysk at HUM.KU.DK (Kenneth Zysk) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 09 10:38:01 +0100 Subject: Help with contacts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087870.23782.13260882108741661530.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1256 Lines: 40 Dear List, I am planning a visit to various mss. libraries and would appreciate contact information for access to the following: 1. Asiatic Society, Calcutta. 2. National Library, Calcutta. 3. -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ashok Aklujkar Sent: 3. november 2009 06:08 To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Chayavyakhya of Nagesha According to Ram Shankar Bhattacharya (An Introduction to the Yogasutra,Delhi & Varanasi: Bharatiya Vidya Prakasana, p. 47) is published in the Bombay Sanskrit and Prakrit Series as vol. no, XLVI. The same source informs us on pp. 43 and 69 that Nage;sa wrote two commentaries on the Yogasuutra and that the Chaayaa is the larger one. It is worth investigating if the Chaayaa commentary actually comes from Nage;sa's student Vaidyanaatha Paayagu.n.de, since many of the published commentaries of Vaidyanaatha bear the title Chaayaa. ashok aklujkar On 11/2/09 6:16 PM, Naresh, <> vaak.wordpress.com>, wrote: > I am looking for Nagesha's commentary on the yogasutras, called > Chayavyakhya. I thought someone on your list would be able to point me > to it. Searching on the internet only yielded references to it, but > not to the published text. From zysk at HUM.KU.DK Mon Nov 16 09:39:24 2009 From: zysk at HUM.KU.DK (Kenneth Zysk) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 09 10:39:24 +0100 Subject: Help with contacts Message-ID: <161227087872.23782.6197672846688060670.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1478 Lines: 52 Please forgive me for this. I pushed the send key by mistake. More information to come. Best, Ken -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Zysk Sent: 16. november 2009 10:38 To: 'Indology' Subject: Help with contacts Dear List, I am planning a visit to various mss. libraries and would appreciate contact information for access to the following: 1. Asiatic Society, Calcutta. 2. National Library, Calcutta. 3. -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ashok Aklujkar Sent: 3. november 2009 06:08 To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Chayavyakhya of Nagesha According to Ram Shankar Bhattacharya (An Introduction to the Yogasutra,Delhi & Varanasi: Bharatiya Vidya Prakasana, p. 47) is published in the Bombay Sanskrit and Prakrit Series as vol. no, XLVI. The same source informs us on pp. 43 and 69 that Nage;sa wrote two commentaries on the Yogasuutra and that the Chaayaa is the larger one. It is worth investigating if the Chaayaa commentary actually comes from Nage;sa's student Vaidyanaatha Paayagu.n.de, since many of the published commentaries of Vaidyanaatha bear the title Chaayaa. ashok aklujkar On 11/2/09 6:16 PM, Naresh, <> vaak.wordpress.com>, wrote: > I am looking for Nagesha's commentary on the yogasutras, called > Chayavyakhya. I thought someone on your list would be able to point me > to it. Searching on the internet only yielded references to it, but > not to the published text. From zysk at HUM.KU.DK Mon Nov 16 09:43:58 2009 From: zysk at HUM.KU.DK (Kenneth Zysk) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 09 10:43:58 +0100 Subject: Help with contacts--correct version Message-ID: <161227087874.23782.17121716799213337236.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 415 Lines: 18 Dear List, Here is the correct request: I am planning a visit to various mss. libraries and would appreciate contact information for access to the following: 1. Asiatic Society of Calcutta, Manuscript collection 2. National Library, Calcutta, Manuscript collection 3. Rajasthan Oriental Research Institute, Alwar, Manuscript collection 4. Indira Gandhi Centre, Manuscript collection, Delhi Many thanks. Ken From jmdelire at ULB.AC.BE Mon Nov 16 11:17:07 2009 From: jmdelire at ULB.AC.BE (Jean-Michel Delire) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 09 12:17:07 +0100 Subject: Help with contacts--correct version Message-ID: <161227087876.23782.17582802218902406962.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3205 Lines: 32 Dear Sir, I have visited the Manuscript department (and Museum) of the Asiatic Society this summer. It is rather easy to have a reader card for a short period, and to see the manuscripts you are looking for. It is much more complicated to obtain copies of them. The rule is that you cannot order directly a complete copy, and even when I was wanting a copy of less than a third of one manuscript, I have been asked to send a very official letter ordering a copy. When I expressed some reservations about the answer to my letter, based on previous bad experience with other libraries in India, the librarian (a lady Dr Mukherjee), apparently shocked, retorted that this is the Asiatic Society, a very serious institution, you know. After having sent such a letter, a friend of mine living in Calcutta informed me that the librarian told him the letter was never received by the general secretary of the Asiatic Society, Dr Chakrabarty. I thus sent a registered letter two weeks ago and I am now waiting for an answer. I suspect that letters from very reputed Universities, not like mine, would be more easily answered, and I would be very interested to know if anybody in the list had such experiences with the Asiatic Society. About the Rajasthan Oriental Research Institute, Alwar, it is even worse. I have visited this library twice in 1998, once without any recommandation, and the second time with a letter written by a famous teacher of the Zakir Hussain University in Delhi. I had never been authorized to see the manuscript I was looking for, and I am now finishing an edition-translation-explanation of the Dvarakanatha's commentary to the Baudhayana Sulbasutra without the Alwar manuscript. To my knowledge, it is the only manuscript I will be missing. Generally, Rajasthan Libraries are very reluctant to let foreigners inspect their manuscripts. Following their rules, "foreign scholars are allowed (...) provided they produce their proper identification and reference from their University, the diplomatic representant in India or a clearance from the Ministry of Human Ressources and Development, Government of India, New Delhi" before they could see manuscripts, and I am not speaking of copying them. I wish you good luck, and, if you succeed, I would like to ask you to procure a copy of the following manuscript : Baudhayanasulbasutratika (or vyakhya), 65 folios, description under serial n?836, accession n?3613, in the Catalogue of Sanskrit and Prakrit Manuscripts, part XXI (Alwar Collection), published by the Rajasthan Oriental Research Institute, Jodhpur, 1985, p.94. Best regards, Dr J.M.Delire Secretary of the Alta?r Centre for History of Science, University of Brussels, Lecturer on Mathematics and on "Science and Civilization of India". >Dear List, > >Here is the correct request: > >I am planning a visit to various mss. libraries and would appreciate >contact information for access to the following: > >1. Asiatic Society of Calcutta, Manuscript collection >2. National Library, Calcutta, Manuscript collection >3. Rajasthan Oriental Research Institute, Alwar, Manuscript collection >4. Indira Gandhi Centre, Manuscript collection, Delhi > >Many thanks. > >Ken > > From birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT Thu Nov 19 17:28:49 2009 From: birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Birgit Kellner) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 09 18:28:49 +0100 Subject: Univ. Oxford: Call for Expressions of Interest, Jill Hart Fund for Indo-Iranian Philology Message-ID: <161227087879.23782.443299546121672751.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4803 Lines: 101 [Forwarded at the request of Christopher Minkowski] University of Oxford Faculty of Oriental Studies and Faculty of Linguistics, Philology and Phonetics Call for Expressions of Interest: Jill Hart Fund for Indo-Iranian Philology for applying to the Leverhulme Trust Early Career Fellowship scheme Please note, the following information outlines an internal pre-application selection process. It is not authorisation to make an application to the Leverhulme Trust through this Institution. Leverhulme Scheme The Leverhulme Early Career Fellowship scheme is aimed at those at a relatively early stage of their academic career but with a proven record of research. The Humanities Division at Oxford has a track record with the Trust, having received four fellowships over the past two years (with a number also awarded to other parts of the University). Fellowships are normally tenable for two or three years on a full-time basis. The Leverhulme eligibility criteria are that applicants must normally be under 35, not hold or have held a permanent academic position in a UK university or comparable institution, and have an awarded doctorate or equivalent research experience. (Applications from those aged 35 and over will be considered if they began their academic studies at a later age than is usual or if they have had a career change or break.) The award requires matched funding from the institution and there is provision for personal research expenses of up to ?6k per year, if requested at the time of application. The Jill Hart Leverhulme Early Career Fellow will be appointed jointly by the Faculty of Oriental Studies and the Faculty of Linguistics, Philology and Phonetics, normally in the first three points of University Grade 7, salary range currently ?28,839 - ?30,594, depending on experience. For full details of the Leverhulme scheme please see http://www.leverhulme.ac.uk/grants_awards/grants/early_career_fellowships/ and for further information about applying from outside the University of Oxford, please see the following page on the Humanities Division website: http://www.humanities.ox.ac.uk/research/applying_from_outside_oxford/leverhulme_early_career_fellowships Call for Expressions of Interest The Faculties of Oriental Studies and of Linguistics, Philology and Phonetics propose to use some of the income from the Jill Hart Fund to provide the matching funding for an application in the subject of Indo-Iranian Philology. They now invite expressions of interest from potential applicants in the relevant field who wish to be considered for the faculty?s support in applying to the Leverhulme scheme. [The Jill Hart Fund for Indo-Iranian Philology at the University of Oxford supports elementary language teaching and learning, and philological teaching and study, of Vedic Sanskrit and of the languages belonging to the Iranian branch of Indo-European at their earliest attested stages.] Expressions of interest must be received by noon on Friday 11 December 2009 and should include the following: 1. a maximum two-page CV with education, publications, thesis title and examiners; 2. a maximum two-page statement of research (please note last year?s Leverhulme guidance stated: ?If an applicant wishes to remain in the same institution he or she should rehearse the academic and/or personal reasons for this.? If you are currently at Oxford, please include justification of why it is appropriate for you to remain here to hold an ECF, in the statement); 3. a 150 word abstract summarising the research for a general audience; 4. an indication of what additional research expenses may be claimed; 5. two letters of reference; 6. a note of who your mentor would be, having obtained his/her agreement in principle to act in this role, if the application is successful. Your mentor must be a member of either the Faculty of Oriental Studies or the Faculty of Linguistics, Philology and Phonetics. Expressions of interest should be e-mailed to the office of the Faculty Board Secretary, Oriental Institute, Pusey Lane, Oxford, OX1 2LE, e-mail address orient at orinst.ox.ac.uk. Interviews will not be held. A nominee will be selected by the Management Committee of the Jill Hart Fund, which consists of members of the Faculties of Oriental Studies and of Lingustics, Philology and Phonetics, and all applicants will be advised of the outcome of their application as soon as possible after the closing date. Further information may be obtained from: http://www.orinst.ox.ac.uk/ - Oriental Studies http://www.ling-phil.ox.ac.uk/ - Linguistics, Philology and Phonetics or by e-mail to the Chair of the Jill Hart Trust Management Committee, Professor C. Minkowski christopher.minkowski at orinst.ox.ac.uk From wedemeyer at UCHICAGO.EDU Fri Nov 20 17:04:30 2009 From: wedemeyer at UCHICAGO.EDU (Christian K. Wedemeyer) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 09 11:04:30 -0600 Subject: **Lecturer in Tibetan, University of Chicago** Message-ID: <161227087881.23782.6184886964755983039.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1910 Lines: 49 The Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations, University of Chicago, invites applications for a full-time Lecturer in Tibetan. Appointment will be for one year, renewable for one or more multiple- year terms upon satisfactory review. The appointment is expected to start 1 July 2010. Position and renewal are contingent upon budgetary approval. The Lecturer will teach a minimum of six courses per year, distributed over three quarters (autumn, winter, spring). Courses will include both Modern Standard and Classical Tibetan and will be regular language courses within the three levels of 1st year, 2nd year, and 3rd/4th year Tibetan. Language lecturers are also expected to work one-on-one with advanced students as the need arises as well as offer occasional Reading Courses to individual students. The Lecturer will take part in workshops, departmental meetings, colloquia, and informal events directed toward graduate training and development. M.A. or PhD preferred in a relevant Humanities discipline. Application materials must include cover letter, CV, and two letters of support submitted as follows: 1) Cover letter and CV must be uploaded to the Academic Careers Opportunities Website at (https://academiccareers.uchicago.edu); 2) Letters of support must be emailed to: salcsearches at lists.uchicago.edu with subject heading "Tibetan Search" and 3) Signed, hard copy letters of support should also be mailed to: Tibetan Search, South Asian Languages and Civilizations, University of Chicago, 1130 E. 59th Street, Chicago IL 60637-1543, U.S.A. Review of applications will begin 1 January 2010 and close 1 March 2010. No application will be considered until all electronically uploaded materials, emailed materials and paper materials are received. The University of Chicago is an Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity Employer From enrica_garzilli at POST.HARVARD.EDU Fri Nov 20 20:06:10 2009 From: enrica_garzilli at POST.HARVARD.EDU (Enrica Garzilli) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 09 21:06:10 +0100 Subject: Bernhard K=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=F6lver?= Message-ID: <161227087883.23782.17687088978802734147.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 200 Lines: 13 Dear Friends, Can anybody provide me with some biographical data (2-3 lines) of Prof. Bernhard K?lver, including years of birth and death? Please respond in private. Thank you, Enrica Garzilli From jglausch at WEB.DE Sat Nov 21 16:18:38 2009 From: jglausch at WEB.DE (Janet Glausch) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 09 17:18:38 +0100 Subject: Bernhard K=?iso-8859-15?Q?=F6lver?= Message-ID: <161227087885.23782.2135204619987109508.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 720 Lines: 31 You can find a short biography in German here: http://www.uni-leipzig.de/~indzaw/contents/bibliothek2/BKoelverNachruf.pdf Best, Janet Glausch version > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: "Enrica Garzilli" > Gesendet: 20.11.09 21:06:19 > An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Betreff: Bernhard K?lver > Dear Friends, > > Can anybody provide me with some biographical data (2-3 lines) of Prof. > Bernhard K?lver, including years of birth and death? Please respond in > private. > > Thank you, > > > Enrica Garzilli > ___________________________________________________________ Preisknaller: WEB.DE DSL Flatrate f?r nur 16,99 Euro/mtl.! http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ From garzilli at ASIATICA.ORG Sat Nov 21 20:12:17 2009 From: garzilli at ASIATICA.ORG (Enrica Garzilli) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 09 21:12:17 +0100 Subject: Bernhard K=?ISO-8859-15?Q?=F6lver?= In-Reply-To: <955475849@web.de> Message-ID: <161227087887.23782.3402821664041199439.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 556 Lines: 24 Thank you, and all the other scholars who gave me info on Prof. K?lver or sent me the obituary written by Prof. von Rospatt. Have a nice Sunday, Enrica Garzilli Janet Glausch wrote: > You can find a short biography in German here: > http://www.uni-leipzig.de/~indzaw/contents/bibliothek2/BKoelverNachruf.pdf > Best, > Janet Glausch > > version > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: "Enrica Garzilli" >> Gesendet: 20.11.09 21:06:19 >> An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Betreff: Bernhard K?lver > > From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Tue Nov 24 00:16:08 2009 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 09 16:16:08 -0800 Subject: Using unicode for diacriticals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087897.23782.10677259854117150871.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2155 Lines: 25 Note that in Unicode, the standard Indic diacriticals work fine (I'm not sure about Vedic accents). I have a Mac keyboard driver, if anyone is interested -- it uses the slash as a dead key and makes entering diacriticals (classical Sanskrit, Tamil at least) quite easy. I'm sure it would be simple to write a similar driver for Windows 7, though I don't know how to do it. I think we should try to move away from all the clunky older systems (like my own TimesIndian) to unicode -- and also avoid such readable but inelegant formulations as sa.mbhavaami (sa?bhav?mi) or, worse, zaastraaNi (??str??i). Here is the beginning of the Meghad?ta (Meghasande?a) in unicode. ka?cit k?nt?virahaguru?? sv?dhik?r?t pramatta? ??pen?sta?gamitamahim? var?abhogyena bhartu? etc. Here's some Tamil: k?rviri ko??aip po???r putumalart t?ra? m?laiya? malainta ka??iya? m?rpi?a?t? maiyil nu???? nutala timaiy? n???am ikala??uk kaiyatu ka?icciyo?u ma?uv? m?v?y.... If anyone wants my keyboard driver, drop me a line. I also have a Nisus macro to translate TimesIndian to unicode. This works fine in Windows 7 -- I just pasted the above into a Word 07 document, and the diacriticals are there in Helvetica and New Times Roman. They also work in the latest Office for Mac and other Mac programs. (To my surprise, it also seems to work in XP, which I just tried). Of course, you have to use a font that has the standard Unicode diacriticals. It would be nice also to use Devanagari, Tamil, Telugu etc. unicode, but entering those writing systems (except Tamil) tends to be quite difficult unless one practices a lot. I think this is important, as use of the unicode fonts that now come standard on every computer makes it possible to read, edit and search Indic texts easily. I have received theses and papers in Word format with 8 or 9 different encoding systems -- and ended up having to install fonts for each. And even if the document is a pdf, you still can't search it unless you have the font and a way of inputting it. Unicode solves these problems. Does anyone know of a good Windows keyboard driver for inputting these diacritics? George Hart From thomaskintaert at GMAIL.COM Mon Nov 23 15:34:24 2009 From: thomaskintaert at GMAIL.COM (Thomas Kintaert) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 09 16:34:24 +0100 Subject: lotus leaf in agnicayana Message-ID: <161227087890.23782.541162097214489500.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1475 Lines: 34 Dear list members, Relating to research on the cultural history of the Indian lotus I am trying to obtain information regarding the following matter: On the 4th day of the agnicayana ritual a lotus leaf (pu?karapar?a) is placed on the foundation of the uttaravedi. During the last 50 years the performance of at least the following agnicayana-s has been documented in Kerala: - 1975 in Panjal - 1990 in Kundoor/Kundur - 2006 in Kizhakkanchery I would like to know whether, in these modern performances, a leaf of the Indian lotus (Nelumbo nucifera, subsp. nucifera) has been used, or a leaf of a Nymphaea (water lily) species. Since the famous 1975 agnicayana produced almost 20 hours of colour film and more than 4,000 photographs, and the agnicayana of 2006 even around 200 hours of video and 12,000 photographs, it should be possible to find an answer. Unless I overlooked it, the lotus leaf does not feature in Staal's video "Altar of Fire". Does anyone know how I might obtain photographs and video footage of the collecting and use of the lotus leaf in these agnicayana performances? I have already tried to contact Mr. Sarath Haridasan, Director of the Documentation Project of the 2006 agnicayana, earlier this year, but without success. The website of that project (www.projectaksharam.org) has meanwhile been taken off the web. I will also send an e-mail to Prof. Staal directly. Any information in this regard will be greatly appreciated. Thomas Kintaert From thomaskintaert at GMAIL.COM Mon Nov 23 21:09:25 2009 From: thomaskintaert at GMAIL.COM (Thomas Kintaert) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 09 21:09:25 +0000 Subject: yugas and colours Message-ID: <161227087892.23782.17031318356505974104.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2390 Lines: 41 Please excuse my late posting to this thread (have only become list member recently) and thank you Joanna for the useful references to secondary literature. The four colours white, red, yellow and blue/black are indeed widespread in Hindu mythology, including cosmography (e.g. the colours of Meru?s four sides). Apart from some of the associations already mentioned in this thread, further ones are given in my article "The Use of Primary Colours in the Nāṭyaśāstra". In: S. Das, E. F?rlinger (eds.), Sāmarasya: Studies in Indian Arts, Philosophy and Interreligious Dialogue - in Honour of Bettina B?umer. New Delhi 2005: D.K. Printworld; 245-273 (cf. esp. fn. 148). Interestingly, the Nāṭyaśāstra not only mentions the use of these colours in ritual contexts (the colour of food offerings in the cardinal directions, of cloth attached to the internodes of the jarjara staff, etc.), but moreover, in the secular context of paints used for make-up, states that these very colours are svabhāvajavarṇa-s, i.e. primary colours which cannot be created by the mixture of other colours, but by the mixture of which secondary colours (saṃyogajavarṇa-s) and tertiary or subordinate colours (upavarṇa-s) are created. So on the one hand each one of these colours is indivisible and on the other hand they collectively encompass all existing colours. I therefore assume that these qualities might have been responsible for using this set of colours in many of the contexts mentioned before. I find it especially meaningful that the Buddhist kasiṇa-s, 10 objects of meditation already described in the Pali Canon, consist of the same four colours together with the six Buddhist elements, and that each kasiṇa is said to be advaya and appamāṇa. By the way, can anyone help me obtain a copy of the following article? Sen, Prabal Kumar: The Nyāya-Vaiśeṣika theory of variegated colour (citrarūpa): some vexed problems. Studies in Humanities and Social Sciences (Shimla, India) 3, 2 (1996) 151-172. (= Thematic Issue: Epistemology, meaning and metaphysics after Matilal; Theories of the Nyaya school of Hindu philosophy and logic.) Many thanks in advance! And should someone be interested in a pdf of my article, just send me a private e-mail. Thomas From thomaskintaert at GMAIL.COM Mon Nov 23 23:38:18 2009 From: thomaskintaert at GMAIL.COM (Thomas Kintaert) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 09 23:38:18 +0000 Subject: yugas and colours Message-ID: <161227087894.23782.17325048774957929281.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2441 Lines: 43 (Since the diacritics didn't show properly in my previous post, I'm sending it once more using the Velthuis encoding. Sorry for the inconvenience!) Please excuse my late posting to this thread (have only become list member recently) and thank you Joanna for the useful references to secondary literature. The four colours white, red, yellow and blue/black are indeed widespread in Hindu mythology, including cosmography (e.g. the colours of Meru?s four sides). Apart from some of the associations already mentioned in this thread, further ones are given in my article "The Use of Primary Colours in the Naa.tya??saastra". In: S. Das, E. F?rlinger (eds.), Saamarasya: Studies in Indian Arts, Philosophy and Interreligious Dialogue - in Honour of Bettina B?umer. New Delhi 2005: D.K. Printworld; 245-273 (cf. esp. fn. 148). Interestingly, the Naa.tya??saastra not only mentions the use of these colours in ritual contexts (the colour of food offerings in the cardinal directions, of cloth attached to the internodes of the jarjara staff, etc.), but moreover, in the secular context of paints used for make- up, states that these very colours are svabhaavajavar.na-s, i.e. primary colours which cannot be created by the mixture of other colours, but by the mixture of which secondary colours (sa.myogajavar.na-s) and tertiary or subordinate colours (upavar.na-s) are created. So on the one hand each one of these colours is indivisible and on the other hand they collectively encompass all existing colours. I therefore assume that these qualities might have been responsible for using this set of colours in many of the contexts mentioned before. I find it especially meaningful that the Buddhist kasi.na-s, 10 objects of meditation already described in the Pali Canon, consist of the same four colours together with the six Buddhist elements, and that each kasi.na is said to be advaya and appamaa.na. By the way, can anyone help me obtain a copy of the following article? Sen, Prabal Kumar: The Nyaya-Vaisesika theory of variegated colour (citrarupa): some vexed problems. Studies in Humanities and Social Sciences (Shimla, India) 3, 2 (1996) 151-172. (= Thematic Issue: Epistemology, meaning and metaphysics after Matilal; Theories of the Nyaya school of Hindu philosophy and logic.) Many thanks in advance! And should someone be interested in a pdf of my article, just send me a private e-mail. Thomas From andrew.ollett at LING-PHIL.OX.AC.UK Tue Nov 24 00:26:08 2009 From: andrew.ollett at LING-PHIL.OX.AC.UK (Andrew Ollett) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 09 00:26:08 +0000 Subject: Using unicode for diacriticals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087899.23782.4431138045052591671.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2635 Lines: 57 i suspect that other linux-using indologists have written their own keyboard maps for romanization, because xkb makes it relatively easy. but if anyone is on a linux system that uses xkb (e.g. ubuntu) and wants a keyboard, i would be glad to send mine along with instructions on how to load and modify it. andrew ollett On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 12:16 AM, George Hart wrote: > Note that in Unicode, the standard Indic diacriticals work fine (I'm not > sure about Vedic accents). I have a Mac keyboard driver, if anyone is > interested -- it uses the slash as a dead key and makes entering > diacriticals (classical Sanskrit, Tamil at least) quite easy. I'm sure it > would be simple to write a similar driver for Windows 7, though I don't know > how to do it. I think we should try to move away from all the clunky older > systems (like my own TimesIndian) to unicode -- and also avoid such readable > but inelegant formulations as sa.mbhavaami (sa?bhav?mi) or, worse, > zaastraaNi (??str??i). > > Here is the beginning of the Meghad?ta (Meghasande?a) in unicode. > > ka?cit k?nt?virahaguru?? sv?dhik?r?t pramatta? > ??pen?sta?gamitamahim? var?abhogyena bhartu? > etc. > > Here's some Tamil: > > k?rviri ko??aip po???r putumalart > t?ra? m?laiya? malainta ka??iya? > m?rpi?a?t? maiyil nu???? > nutala timaiy? n???am ikala??uk > kaiyatu ka?icciyo?u ma?uv? m?v?y.... > > > If anyone wants my keyboard driver, drop me a line. I also have a Nisus > macro to translate TimesIndian to unicode. This works fine in Windows 7 -- > I just pasted the above into a Word 07 document, and the diacriticals are > there in Helvetica and New Times Roman. They also work in the latest Office > for Mac and other Mac programs. (To my surprise, it also seems to work in > XP, which I just tried). Of course, you have to use a font that has the > standard Unicode diacriticals. It would be nice also to use Devanagari, > Tamil, Telugu etc. unicode, but entering those writing systems (except > Tamil) tends to be quite difficult unless one practices a lot. > > I think this is important, as use of the unicode fonts that now come > standard on every computer makes it possible to read, edit and search Indic > texts easily. I have received theses and papers in Word format with 8 or 9 > different encoding systems -- and ended up having to install fonts for each. > And even if the document is a pdf, you still can't search it unless you > have the font and a way of inputting it. Unicode solves these problems. > > Does anyone know of a good Windows keyboard driver for inputting these > diacritics? George Hart From h.t.bakker at RUG.NL Tue Nov 24 12:10:08 2009 From: h.t.bakker at RUG.NL (hans bakker) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 09 13:10:08 +0100 Subject: post doc position Message-ID: <161227087902.23782.15109983170293866747.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1723 Lines: 49 Dear All, The following post-doc position is vacant at the *University of Groningen, Faculty of Religious Studies, Institute of Indian Studies*. Within the research programme awarded by The Netherlands Organization for Scientific Research (NWO), /A Historical Inquiry Concerning the Composition and Spread of the Skandapurana,/ *a post doc position (3 years) is vacant for the sub-project 2*: /The Skandapurana in Nepal: Reception and Reception History./ Preference will be given to a candidate who is well versed in Sanskrit, has a first hand knowledge of the developments in Early Shaivism, and is acquainted with the history and Sanskrit literature of South Asia in the first millennium AD. Knowledge of Nepal and its (religious) history is considered as an extra asset. The candidate will be expected to contribute to the research activities within the NWO programme and the Institute of Indian Studies of the Faculty of Theology and Religious Studies. She/he may also be asked to contribute to teaching in the BA and MA curriculum. The candidate is expected to take up residence in Groningen. The post is advertised on the following site: http://www.academictransfer.com/1953 The application deadline is *15 December 2009.* Information about the Groningen Institute of Indian Studies and the Skandapurana Project is found on: http://www.rug.nl/ggw/onderzoek/onderzoeksinstituten/indian/index Further information about the project can be obtained from h.t.bakker at rug.nl -- Prof Dr Hans T. Bakker Institute of Indian Studies University of Groningen Oude Boteringestraat 23 9712 GC Groningen the Netherlands tel: +31.(0)50.363.5819 fax: +31.(0)50.363.7263 www.rug.nl/india From csaba.kiss at YAHOO.CO.UK Tue Nov 24 13:00:14 2009 From: csaba.kiss at YAHOO.CO.UK (Csaba Kiss) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 09 14:00:14 +0100 Subject: Using unicode for diacriticals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087904.23782.13074383859191841407.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3436 Lines: 104 Dear Colleagues, I usually use Vim when I type in Sanskrit texts. Vim is available for GNU/Linux and Mac (and probably for Windows), and is highly costumizable/programmable. I am happy to share my Vim keymaps for Sanskrit which support Unicode display with Velthuis save functions (your file is saved in Velthuis encoding, but you see it in Unicode in Vim). It enables you to type your text in Velthuis (aaraama.h etc.), which is very comfortable, and to see it on the screen in Unicode immediately. But I would also love to give a try to the xkb keyboard. Csaba Kiss On 2009.11.24., at 1:26, Andrew Ollett wrote: > i suspect that other linux-using indologists have written their own > keyboard > maps for romanization, because xkb makes it relatively easy. but if > anyone > is on a linux system that uses xkb (e.g. ubuntu) and wants a > keyboard, i > would be glad to send mine along with instructions on how to load > and modify > it. > > andrew ollett > > On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 12:16 AM, George Hart > wrote: > >> Note that in Unicode, the standard Indic diacriticals work fine >> (I'm not >> sure about Vedic accents). I have a Mac keyboard driver, if anyone >> is >> interested -- it uses the slash as a dead key and makes entering >> diacriticals (classical Sanskrit, Tamil at least) quite easy. I'm >> sure it >> would be simple to write a similar driver for Windows 7, though I >> don't know >> how to do it. I think we should try to move away from all the >> clunky older >> systems (like my own TimesIndian) to unicode -- and also avoid such >> readable >> but inelegant formulations as sa.mbhavaami (sa?bhav?mi) or, worse, >> zaastraaNi (??str??i). >> >> Here is the beginning of the Meghad?ta (Meghasande?a) in unicode. >> >> ka?cit k?nt?virahaguru?? sv?dhik?r?t pramatta? >> ??pen?sta?gamitamahim? var?abhogyena bhartu? >> etc. >> >> Here's some Tamil: >> >> k?rviri ko??aip po???r putumalart >> t?ra? m?laiya? malainta ka??iya? >> m?rpi?a?t? maiyil nu???? >> nutala timaiy? n???am ikala??uk >> kaiyatu ka?icciyo?u ma?uv? m?v?y.... >> >> >> If anyone wants my keyboard driver, drop me a line. I also have a >> Nisus >> macro to translate TimesIndian to unicode. This works fine in >> Windows 7 -- >> I just pasted the above into a Word 07 document, and the >> diacriticals are >> there in Helvetica and New Times Roman. They also work in the >> latest Office >> for Mac and other Mac programs. (To my surprise, it also seems to >> work in >> XP, which I just tried). Of course, you have to use a font that >> has the >> standard Unicode diacriticals. It would be nice also to use >> Devanagari, >> Tamil, Telugu etc. unicode, but entering those writing systems >> (except >> Tamil) tends to be quite difficult unless one practices a lot. >> >> I think this is important, as use of the unicode fonts that now come >> standard on every computer makes it possible to read, edit and >> search Indic >> texts easily. I have received theses and papers in Word format >> with 8 or 9 >> different encoding systems -- and ended up having to install fonts >> for each. >> And even if the document is a pdf, you still can't search it unless >> you >> have the font and a way of inputting it. Unicode solves these >> problems. >> >> Does anyone know of a good Windows keyboard driver for inputting >> these >> diacritics? George Hart From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Nov 24 15:28:51 2009 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 09 16:28:51 +0100 Subject: yugas and colours In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087906.23782.9075598526661340386.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 639 Lines: 24 Dear Thomas, You probably know this already, but that journal's website is here: http://www.iias.org/periodicals.html and a note to A. K. Sharma at proiias at gmail.com might produce a copy of the article or 1996 issue for you. Best, Dominik 2009/11/24 Thomas Kintaert > Sen, Prabal Kumar: The Nyaya-Vaisesika theory of variegated colour > (citrarupa): some vexed problems. Studies in Humanities and Social > Sciences > (Shimla, India) 3, 2 (1996) 151-172. (= Thematic Issue: Epistemology, > meaning and metaphysics after Matilal; Theories of the Nyaya school of > Hindu > philosophy and logic.) > From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Nov 24 21:41:46 2009 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 09 16:41:46 -0500 Subject: Hindi/Urdu teaching opportunity in DC area Message-ID: <161227087909.23782.14921621141745716006.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 673 Lines: 19 There's a new local venture to teach Hindi and Urdu as evening adult classes. For information, go to: http://www.dcinternationals.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=76&Itemid=62 Please forward this to anyone who would be interested. The director of the program is still seeking instructors, I am told. Allen Thrasher Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From Peter_Scharf at BROWN.EDU Tue Nov 24 22:02:43 2009 From: Peter_Scharf at BROWN.EDU (Peter Scharf) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 09 17:02:43 -0500 Subject: Sanskrit Library Assistant Message-ID: <161227087911.23782.11425688576544554945.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2908 Lines: 56 The digital Sanskrit library in the Department of Classics at Brown University seeks a post-doctoral research associate for one year to assist in an NEH-funded project entitled, "Enhancing Access to Primary Cultural Heritage Materials of India." The position carries a stipend of $25,000 for one year. The Sanskrit Library is a collaborative project to make the heritage texts of India accessible on the web. The project is building a digital Sanskrit library by integrating texts, linguistic software, and digital Sanskrit lexical sources. This year the project is making digital images of manuscripts of the Mah?bh?rata and Bh?gavatapur??a housed at Brown University and the University of Pennsylvania, cataloguing them, and linking them with the corresponding machine-readable texts. Extending the scope of linguistic software to these digital images serves as a pilot project to demonstrate the feasibility of doing so with manuscript images generally. The research associate will work with the project director, software engineer, and student assistants on the following tasks: --to mark manuscript page boundaries in machine-readable texts --to develop word-spotting and automated text-image alignment techniques --to develop conduits for simultaneous print, PDF, and html publication of the catalogue and other documents. The position requires advanced training in Sanskrit, academic research skills, and expertise in XML. Desirable additionally are some or all of the following: competence in the text-encoding initiative (TEI) standards, XSLT, HTML, CSS, TeX, Java, user-interface design, Perl, PhP, and server administration. The applicant is expected to be creative and to able to work individually as well as to collaborate with technical personnel. Brown University is an affirmative action, equal opportunity employer. Women and minorities are especially encouraged to apply. Apply by sending a resum?, a description of your relevant experience with links to products produced, a clear indication of your role and responsibility in their production (whether you are exclusively responsible or the manner and extent of your responsibility), and the names and contact information of three references to the project director (Peter Scharf) via email (scharf at brown.edu) with the subject heading, "Sanskrit Library Assistant," by 4 December 2009. ********************************************************* Peter M. Scharf (401) 863-2720 office Department of Classics (401) 863-2123 dept. Brown University PO Box 1856 (401) 863-7484 fax Providence, RI 02912 Scharf at brown.edu http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Classics/people/facultypage.php?id=10044 http://sanskritlibrary.org/ ********************************************************* From Harunaga.Isaacson at UNI-HAMBURG.DE Wed Nov 25 08:06:21 2009 From: Harunaga.Isaacson at UNI-HAMBURG.DE (Harunaga Isaacson) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 09 09:06:21 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Possible contacts between Departments of two countries] Message-ID: <161227087913.23782.12342813685464845295.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 560 Lines: 29 Liebe Tina, kannst Du ein Blick hierauf werfen? Liebe Gruesse, Haru -- Prof. Dr. Harunaga Isaacson Universit?t Hamburg Asien-Afrika-Institut Abteilung f?r Kultur und Geschichte Indiens und Tibets Alsterterrasse 1 D-20354 Hamburg Germany tel. +49 (0)40 42838-3382 Alternative email: harunagaisaacson at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: unknown sender Subject: no subject Date: no date Size: 9603 URL: From Harunaga.Isaacson at UNI-HAMBURG.DE Wed Nov 25 08:20:33 2009 From: Harunaga.Isaacson at UNI-HAMBURG.DE (Harunaga Isaacson) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 09 09:20:33 +0100 Subject: apologies Message-ID: <161227087916.23782.11876146783720109515.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 292 Lines: 18 Apologies to the list for that slip... HI -- Prof. Dr. Harunaga Isaacson Universit?t Hamburg Asien-Afrika-Institut Abteilung f?r Kultur und Geschichte Indiens und Tibets Alsterterrasse 1 D-20354 Hamburg Germany tel. +49 (0)40 42838-3382 Alternative email: harunagaisaacson at gmail.com From Palaniappa at AOL.COM Mon Nov 30 06:37:16 2009 From: Palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 09 01:37:16 -0500 Subject: Contact information for Dr. Wayne Howard Message-ID: <161227087919.23782.2527305321388724850.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 171 Lines: 12 Dear Indologists, I am looking for the contact information for Dr. Wayne Howard who authored "Samavedic Chant" (1977). Thanks in advance. Regards, Palaniappan From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Thu Oct 1 01:06:43 2009 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 09 18:06:43 -0700 Subject: Thanks! (Re: Need references for descriptions of Buddhist nuns in literature ) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087664.23782.17704073450066818529.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1348 Lines: 42 My sincere thanks to everyone that sent me the references I needed! The online version of Therigatha (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ tipitaka/kn/thig/index.html) is amazing! It provided instant confirmation of what I've been wondering about for decades! These references confirmed my thoughts about the demeanor of Buddhist nuns -- that they shaved their head, they did not wear any ornaments to adorn themselves, and so on. Thanks and regards, Rajam On Sep 28, 2009, at 12:24 PM, rajam wrote: > Dear All, > > I'm looking for any descriptions of Buddhist nuns in any earliest > Buddhist literature. > > Specifically, I'm interested in understanding whether our > literature reflected reality, and if so to what extent. > > In literature -- How are the Buddhist nuns described? > > In reality -- How were they officiated? What did they wear? Did > they wear any jewelry to adorn themselves? Did they shave their > head? What did they eat? Where did they live? Did they maintain > their ties with their kin? What did they do on a daily basis -- did > they go around and preach, and if so what did they do and > preach?, ... , so on and so forth. > > I would appreciate any informative posting on this list. Please > also feel free to contact me directly at: . > > Thanks and regards, > Rajam From axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE Thu Oct 1 07:34:29 2009 From: axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE (Axel Michaels) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 09 07:34:29 +0000 Subject: Star Wars in Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227087666.23782.15911128660590534162.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 106 Lines: 7 Enjoy: Star Wars in Sanskrit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBd1kaLKoIg Best greetingsAxel Michaels From rmanring at INDIANA.EDU Thu Oct 1 12:07:34 2009 From: rmanring at INDIANA.EDU (Manring, Rebecca) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 09 08:07:34 -0400 Subject: Star Wars in Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <152726.83723.qm@web27308.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227087668.23782.17926842056203481801.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 648 Lines: 20 This youtube clip was the final project produced by students in the AIIS Sanskrit program in Pune a few years back; the voice of Darth Vader is that of Bryan Gutridge, one of my then-MA students here at Indiana University. Rebecca J. Manring Associate Professor India Studies and Religious Studies Indiana University-Bloomington -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Axel Michaels Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 3:34 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Star Wars in Sanskrit Enjoy: Star Wars in Sanskrit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBd1kaLKoIg Best greetingsAxel Michaels From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Thu Oct 1 14:44:10 2009 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 09 16:44:10 +0200 Subject: Unicode-compliant Garamond font ? In-Reply-To: <1232607970.3877.18.camel@proliant> Message-ID: <161227087671.23782.910087816221467660.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2203 Lines: 67 Dear list members, is there a Unicode-compliant Garamond font available somewhere on the internet? (or a Garamond look-alike?) Thanks for your feedback -- Jean-Luc Chevillard Richard MAHONEY a ?crit : > Dear Readers, > > John Smith's recently updated font collection will be of interest to > some of you. > > > -----Forwarded Message----- > From: John Smith > To: Richard MAHONEY > Cc: John Smith > Subject: IndUni fonts > Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 11:53:36 +0530 > > [snip] > > I have recently created upgraded versions of my "IndUni" OpenType > fonts. These are Unicode-compliant fonts that contain a comprehensive > set of "Indological" characters, as well as all the European characters > that scholars are likely to need. They are available as freeware, and > include high-quality lookalikes for Times, Palatino, New Century > Schoolbook, Helvetica and Courier. They are based on the freeware fonts > so generously contributed by URW++ of Germany. > > The upgraded fonts now contain all the accented characters specified by > MES-1, the smallest of the recognised Multilingual European Subsets of > Unicode. They also contain numerous other accented forms that linguists > tend to require (e.g. vowels with both macron and breve, vowels with > both macron and tilde), all the accented characters needed for Pinyin, > and a set of Cyrillic characters. This is, of course, in addition to > all the characters known to be used in representing Indian languages in > Roman script. > > As well as a greatly enhanced character set, the new versions of the > fonts have had various small bugs fixed, and have been set up to work > with both "composed" and "decomposed" forms of complex characters -- > e.g. the form for "a macron" will be used whether the document contains > the one character U+0101 ("a macron") or the two characters U+0061 > ("a") + U+0304 ("macron"). Since there seems to be something of a shift > in usage under way here, this is a major advantage. > > The fonts can be downloaded from http://bombay.indology.info/. > > John Smith > > > John Smith > jds10 at cam.ac.uk > http://bombay.indology.info > > > > From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Thu Oct 1 16:47:23 2009 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 09 18:47:23 +0200 Subject: AW: Unicode-compliant Garamond font ? Message-ID: <161227087673.23782.4492209849183207327.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3548 Lines: 114 The key question seems to me whether the respective font covers the Unicode range "Latin Extended Additional" (with underdot characters etc.). Look here for those that do: http://www.alanwood.net/unicode/latin_extended_additional.html The list contains "jGaramond" (of which I know nothing). For download and additional information try here: http://www.janthor.com/jGaramond/index.html Good luck! Reinhold Gr?nendahl ________________________________________________ Dr. Reinhold Gruenendahl Niedersaechsische Staats- und Universitaetsbibliothek Fachreferat sued- und suedostasiatische Philologien (Dept. of Indology) 37070 Goettingen, Germany Tel (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 52 83 gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de FACH-INFORMATIONEN INDOLOGIE, GOETTINGEN: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindolo.htm In English: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindole.htm GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm GRETIL e-library: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gr_elib.htm ________________________________ Von: Indology im Auftrag von Jean-Luc Chevillard Gesendet: Do 01.10.2009 16:44 An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Betreff: Unicode-compliant Garamond font ? Dear list members, is there a Unicode-compliant Garamond font available somewhere on the internet? (or a Garamond look-alike?) Thanks for your feedback -- Jean-Luc Chevillard Richard MAHONEY a ?crit : > Dear Readers, > > John Smith's recently updated font collection will be of interest to > some of you. > > > -----Forwarded Message----- > From: John Smith > To: Richard MAHONEY > Cc: John Smith > Subject: IndUni fonts > Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 11:53:36 +0530 > > [snip] > > I have recently created upgraded versions of my "IndUni" OpenType > fonts. These are Unicode-compliant fonts that contain a comprehensive > set of "Indological" characters, as well as all the European characters > that scholars are likely to need. They are available as freeware, and > include high-quality lookalikes for Times, Palatino, New Century > Schoolbook, Helvetica and Courier. They are based on the freeware fonts > so generously contributed by URW++ of Germany. > > The upgraded fonts now contain all the accented characters specified by > MES-1, the smallest of the recognised Multilingual European Subsets of > Unicode. They also contain numerous other accented forms that linguists > tend to require (e.g. vowels with both macron and breve, vowels with > both macron and tilde), all the accented characters needed for Pinyin, > and a set of Cyrillic characters. This is, of course, in addition to > all the characters known to be used in representing Indian languages in > Roman script. > > As well as a greatly enhanced character set, the new versions of the > fonts have had various small bugs fixed, and have been set up to work > with both "composed" and "decomposed" forms of complex characters -- > e.g. the form for "a macron" will be used whether the document contains > the one character U+0101 ("a macron") or the two characters U+0061 > ("a") + U+0304 ("macron"). Since there seems to be something of a shift > in usage under way here, this is a major advantage. > > The fonts can be downloaded from http://bombay.indology.info/. > > John Smith > > > John Smith > jds10 at cam.ac.uk > http://bombay.indology.info > > > > From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Thu Oct 1 18:23:56 2009 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 09 20:23:56 +0200 Subject: Unicode-compliant Garamond font ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087675.23782.3396982773684412541.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3734 Lines: 129 Dear Reinhold Gruenendahl, Thanks for your feed back! I am indeed looking for a font covering the "Latin Extended Additional" range. The page for "jGaramond" does not seem to be very encouraging since the person in charge has written that he "consider[s] the font jGaramond to be deprecated." The closest approximation to Garamond I have found for the time being is a font called "Junicode", which is said to be "very similar in style to typefaces of the 18th century such as Caslon." (See the Wikipedia entry ) It is available from the following URL: For those interested in typography, here is what TYPEDIA has to say: "Junicode (a contraction of ?Junius-Unicode?) is an old-style font. The roman is based on early-18th century type used by the Clarendon Press; the italics and bold are designed to match. It contains Greek characters based on the Greek Double Pica cut by Alexander Wilson of Glasgow in the eighteenth century. Specifically, the type is based on that in George Hickes?s ?Linguarum Vett. Septentrionalium ? Thesaurus? (Oxford, 1703-05), which was commissioned by Franciscus Junius. (SEE: ) HOWEVER, since Claude Garamond (c.1480?1561) was active in the 16th century (SEE ), I am afraid Junicode will not be considered as completely adequate by the person who incited me to start this search, although the 18th century is closer to the 16th century as to the 21st :-) Best wishes -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris) Gruenendahl, Reinhold a ?crit : > The key question seems to me whether the respective font covers the Unicode > range "Latin Extended Additional" (with underdot characters etc.). > > Look here for those that do: > > http://www.alanwood.net/unicode/latin_extended_additional.html > > The list contains "jGaramond" (of which I know nothing). For download and > additional information try here: > http://www.janthor.com/jGaramond/index.html > > Good luck! > Reinhold Gr?nendahl > [....] > GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: > http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm > [...] > Von: Indology im Auftrag von Jean-Luc Chevillard > Gesendet: Do 01.10.2009 16:44 > An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Betreff: Unicode-compliant Garamond font ? > > > Dear list members, > > is there a Unicode-compliant Garamond font > available somewhere on the internet? > (or a Garamond look-alike?) > > Thanks for your feedback > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard > > > Richard MAHONEY a ?crit : > >> Dear Readers, >> >> John Smith's recently updated font collection will be of interest to >> some of you. >> >> >> -----Forwarded Message----- >> From: John Smith >> To: Richard MAHONEY >> Cc: John Smith >> Subject: IndUni fonts >> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 11:53:36 +0530 >> >> [snip] >> >> I have recently created upgraded versions of my "IndUni" OpenType >> fonts. These are Unicode-compliant fonts that contain a comprehensive >> set of "Indological" characters, as well as all the European characters >> that scholars are likely to need. They are available as freeware, and >> include high-quality lookalikes for Times, Palatino, New Century >> Schoolbook, Helvetica and Courier. They are based on the freeware fonts >> so generously contributed by URW++ of Germany. >> >> >> The fonts can be downloaded from http://bombay.indology.info/. >> >> John Smith >> >> >> John Smith >> jds10 at cam.ac.uk >> http://bombay.indology.info >> >> >> >> >> > > From pankajaindia at GMAIL.COM Sun Oct 4 20:33:33 2009 From: pankajaindia at GMAIL.COM (Pankaj Jain) Date: Sun, 04 Oct 09 21:33:33 +0100 Subject: Admission open for Summer School for Jainism in India Message-ID: <161227087677.23782.9859732067569140520.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1729 Lines: 43 (I forward a message from Dr. Sulekh Jain) ADMSSION TO ISSJS 2010 NOW OPEN ISSJS invites enquiries and applications now for ISSJS 2010 This is a great opportunity to study Jainism and the Jain community in an experiential based academic settings in India in the summer of 2010. ISSJS was established in 2005 and so far nearly 122 scholars and students from 9 countries and more than 20 universities of the world have attended the last 4 ISSJSs. In addition to class room lectures by eminent scholars of Jainism, the other great features of this program are the meetings and interactions with the Jain professionals , practitioners, monks, nuns and visits to temples, historical and architectural places. The emphasis is on the study and learning of philosophy, art , history and culture of the Jains. Another great beauty of this unique program is that nearly full cost ( except $400-500) of the program such as tuition, course material, boarding and lodging in India for the entire stay are paid for by ISSJS to all participants. In addition, some full time faculty and Grad students attending the advance program/module also receive economy class return trip plus some cash stipends. ISSJS 2010 offers 4 different modules as opposed to 3 in ISSJS 2009. A brief flyer is attached for your information. Full details of this program along with the application forms are available on ISSJS web site; www.jainstudies.org. Kindly circulate this flyer among students, in your department , your friends and acquaintances who may be interested in this program With my many thanks Sulekh C. Jain, PhD Chairman , Governing Council, ISSJS North America Houston, Texas ,USA 281 494 7656 ( home) 832 594 8005 ( cell) From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Oct 6 20:09:47 2009 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 09 16:09:47 -0400 Subject: European auction houses and Asian materials Message-ID: <161227087679.23782.16981562878398983674.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 659 Lines: 20 If there are any auction houses on the Continent of Europe that at least occasionally deal in rare books and manuscripts from South or Southeast Asia, could folks please inform me of them? The Library of Congress is attempting to create an internal list of auction houses offering library materials. Thanks, Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From peterfriedlander at YAHOO.COM.AU Wed Oct 7 01:49:45 2009 From: peterfriedlander at YAHOO.COM.AU (Peter Friedlander) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 09 18:49:45 -0700 Subject: Auction Houses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087682.23782.4785932322544358965.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 789 Lines: 24 Dear Colleagues, I wrote catalogue entries for Sam Fogg in London (http://www.samfogg.com/) a while ago. They used to have the most wonderful South Asian stuff for sale, everything from ancient Buddhist MS from Afghanistan to illustrated manuscripts, I remember seeing a copy of an 18th century illustrated Ramayana/Ramcaritmanas with Nagari and Nastaliq scripts on facing pages. some of their stuff had also been through the states on its way from wherever it came from to wherever it was going. So Sam Fogg is one to watch, in fact their website catalogue shows this as well. regards Peter --------------------------- Peter Friedlander 21 Hindhede Dr #04-04 Singapore, 589318 Handphone: (65) 90624357 Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Oct 7 19:10:32 2009 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 09 15:10:32 -0400 Subject: Auction Houses In-Reply-To: <262257.72137.qm@web65713.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227087684.23782.219747284065917005.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 824 Lines: 18 Dear Peter, Thanks. We are well aware of Sam Fogg and have long had dealings with him. I was wondering about auctioneers on the Continent. Allen >>> Peter Friedlander 10/6/2009 9:49 PM >>> Dear Colleagues, I wrote catalogue entries for Sam Fogg in London (http://www.samfogg.com/) a while ago. They used to have the most wonderful South Asian stuff for sale, everything from ancient Buddhist MS from Afghanistan to illustrated manuscripts, I remember seeing a copy of an 18th century illustrated Ramayana/Ramcaritmanas with Nagari and Nastaliq scripts on facing pages. some of their stuff had also been through the states on its way from wherever it came from to wherever it was going. So Sam Fogg is one to watch, in fact their website catalogue shows this as well. regards Peter From antonio.jardim at GMAIL.COM Thu Oct 8 01:51:17 2009 From: antonio.jardim at GMAIL.COM (Antonio Ferreira-Jardim) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 09 11:51:17 +1000 Subject: Auction Houses In-Reply-To: <4ACCAF680200003A000697D0@ntgwgate.loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227087687.23782.8106261682425842612.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1559 Lines: 51 Dear Allen, On occasion, I have found significant items of Indological interest at the following Dutch auction houses: HONDIUS BOOK AND PRINT AUCTIONS B.V. Graaf van Burenstraat 12 - 7411 RW Deventer, the Netherlands Tel: 0570-600665 or 06-10299776 Fax:0570-610774 E-mail: info at hondiusauctions.com www.hondiusauctions.com BURGERSDIJK & NIERMANS Nieuwsteeg 1 2311 RW Leiden The Netherlands P.O. Box 9002 2300 PA Leiden The Netherlands Phone: (+31) 71 5121067 or (+31) 71 5126381 Fax: (+31) 71 5130461 auctions at b-n.nl www.b-n.nl I hope that is of some assistance. Kind regards, Antonio Ferreira-Jardim Brisbane, Australia On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 5:10 AM, Allen W Thrasher wrote: > Dear Peter, > > Thanks. ?We are well aware of Sam Fogg and have long had dealings with him. ?I was wondering about auctioneers on the Continent. > > Allen > >>>> Peter Friedlander 10/6/2009 9:49 PM >>> > Dear Colleagues, > I wrote catalogue entries for Sam Fogg in London (http://www.samfogg.com/) a while ago. > They used to have the most wonderful South Asian stuff for sale, > everything from ancient Buddhist MS from Afghanistan to illustrated manuscripts, I remember seeing a copy of an 18th century illustrated Ramayana/Ramcaritmanas with Nagari and Nastaliq scripts on facing pages. > some of their stuff had also been through the states on its way from wherever it came from to wherever it was going. > So Sam Fogg is one to watch, in fact their website catalogue shows this as well. > regards > Peter > From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Thu Oct 8 14:44:38 2009 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 09 16:44:38 +0200 Subject: GRETIL update #358 Message-ID: <161227087689.23782.15931391614737996961.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 585 Lines: 21 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Jayatirtha: Nyayasudha, Adhyaya 1 (revised and completed) __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From athr at LOC.GOV Fri Oct 9 17:28:21 2009 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 09 13:28:21 -0400 Subject: Auction Houses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087692.23782.12995115256850616625.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 760 Lines: 40 Dear Antonio, Thanks very much. Allen >>> Antonio Ferreira-Jardim 10/7/2009 9:51 PM >>> Dear Allen, On occasion, I have found significant items of Indological interest at the following Dutch auction houses: HONDIUS BOOK AND PRINT AUCTIONS B.V. Graaf van Burenstraat 12 - 7411 RW Deventer, the Netherlands Tel: 0570-600665 or 06-10299776 Fax:0570-610774 E-mail: info at hondiusauctions.com www.hondiusauctions.com BURGERSDIJK & NIERMANS Nieuwsteeg 1 2311 RW Leiden The Netherlands P.O. Box 9002 2300 PA Leiden The Netherlands Phone: (+31) 71 5121067 or (+31) 71 5126381 Fax: (+31) 71 5130461 auctions at b-n.nl www.b-n.nl I hope that is of some assistance. Kind regards, Antonio Ferreira-Jardim Brisbane, Australia From harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Oct 10 10:42:17 2009 From: harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM (Harsha Dehejia) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 09 10:42:17 +0000 Subject: Radha Message-ID: <161227087694.23782.14897900466108753877.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1405 Lines: 47 Friends: A seminar on Radha is being held in Delhi on Friday January 29, 2010. This is being jointly organised by me and the department of Art & Aesthetics of the Jawaharlal Nehru University. Please let me know if any of you are interested in attending. There is no travel grant but accommodation could be arranged. Regards. Harsha V. Dehejia College of Humanities Carleton University, Ottawa, ON. Canada. Radha her transformation from a gopi to a goddess Despite a rich presence in the visual and performing arts Radha remains an enigmatic figure in the shringara tradition. Emerging from Jayadeva?s Gita Govinda Radha takes a number of different courses. In the hands of ritikal poets of the 17th and 18th centuries she becomes a courtly nayika and features in countless taxonomies of the romantic woman. Chaitanya who takes his stand on the Gita Govinda makes her into a consort of Krishna and devotees of Gaudiya Vaishnavism hail her with the words Radhe! Radhe!. In the traditions of Maharashtra and Tamil Nadu Radha is conspicuous by her absence. In the folk tradition of Bengal Radha is sometimes seen as a kalankini or defiled woman. Despite this philosophers and critics, choreographers and miniature artists celebrate her in many different ways. The seminar will investigate the many sides of Radha in her journey from a gopi to a goddess. From indologi at GWDG.DE Wed Oct 14 12:22:15 2009 From: indologi at GWDG.DE (Indologie, Seminar fuer) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 09 14:22:15 +0200 Subject: Vacancy: Sanskrit Dictionary in G=?iso-8859-15?Q?=F6ttingen,?= Germany Message-ID: <161227087696.23782.8332538353945182715.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2145 Lines: 61 Dear list members, on behalf of Prof. Dr. Jens-Uwe Hartmann, I would like to call your attention to the advertisement of a vacancy at the Academy of Sciences, G?ttingen (Germany), in the project "Sanskrit dictionary of Buddhist Turfan texts". Please forward the text given below to suitable applicants. For further information contact Prof. Dr. Jens-Uwe Hartmann, Universit?t M?nchen, Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie, Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1, 80539 M?nchen, or juhartmann at lmu.de. Best wishes, Thomas Oberlies -- Prof. Dr. Thomas Oberlies Seminar f?r Indologie und Tibetologie Waldweg 26 37073 G?ttingen Tel.: 0551/39-13301 Fax: 0551/39-13192 email: indologi at gwdg.de --------------------------------- AKADEMIE DER WISSENSCHAFTEN ZU G?TTINGEN Die Akademie der Wissenschaften zu G?ttingen stellt voraussichtlich zum 01.07.2010 eine(n) wissenschaftliche(n) Mitarbeiter(in)(TV-L E 13/14) in der Arbeitsstelle Sanskrit-W?rterbuch in G?ttingen ein. Die Stelle ist befristet. Sie ist vorgesehen als Teilzeitbesch?ftigung mit mindestens 50% der regelm??igen w?chentlichen Arbeitszeit; ggf. kommt aber eine Aufstockung bis 100% in Betracht. Aufgabengebiet: Leitende Redaktion des Sanskrit-W?rterbuchs der buddhistischen Texte aus den Turfan-Funden; Mitarbeit an der Edition sowie Organisation, Koordinierung und Kontrolle der editorischen Arbeiten. Einstellungsvoraussetzungen: Voraussetzungen sind eine einschl?gige Promotion, Editionserfahrung und ausgewiesene Kenntnisse der buddhistischen Sanskrit-Literatur; erw?nscht sind Kenntnisse der tibetischen ?bersetzungsliteratur. Schwerbehinderte Bewerberinnen und Bewerber werden bei gleicher Eignung bevorzugt ber?cksichtigt. Bewerbungen von Frauen werden besonders begr??t. Bewerbungen sind mit den ?blichen Unterlagen (Bewerbungsschreiben, Tabellarischer Lebenslauf, Schriftenverzeichnis, Hochschul- und Promotionsabschluss) bis zum 30. November 2009 an den Kommissionsvorsitzenden zu richten: Herrn Prof. Dr. Jens-Uwe Hartmann, Universit?t M?nchen, Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie, Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1, 80539 M?nchen, oder elektronisch an juhartmann at lmu.de. From BrodbeckSP at CARDIFF.AC.UK Thu Oct 15 13:47:36 2009 From: BrodbeckSP at CARDIFF.AC.UK (Simon Brodbeck) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 09 14:47:36 +0100 Subject: Publication announcement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087699.23782.12438661855230547148.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1978 Lines: 68 Dear colleagues, I am delighted to announce the publication of a monograph proceeding from the ?Epic Constructions? project at the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London (2004-2007): Simon Pearse Brodbeck, ?The Mahabharata Patriline: Gender, Culture, and the Royal Hereditary?. Farnham, Surrey: Ashgate Publishing, 2009. Pp. xiv + 329. ISBN 978-0-7546-6787-2 (hbk). ?55. The book is a chronological survey of the Sanskrit Mahabharata's central royal patriline. It explores the importance and implications of patrilineal maintenance within the royal culture depicted by the text, and shows how patrilineal memory comes up against the fact that in every generation a wife must be involved, with the consequent danger that the children might not sustain the memorial tradition of their paternal family. Studying the Mahabharata as an integral literary unit and as a story stretched over dozens of generations, the book casts particular light on the events of the more recent generations and suggests that the text's internal narrators are members of the family whose story they tell. CONTENTS List of figures; Preface; Sanskrit pronunciation guide; Map Part One: A Royal Patrilineal Model 1. Analogical deceptions 2. Wide shots 3. The Mahabharata patriline 4. Shraddha in the Mahabharata 5. Marriage and the heir 6. The royal hunt Part Two: The Distant Ancestry 7. Female links 8. Yayati 9. The Paurava stretch 10. Duhshanta, Shakuntala, and the Bharatas 11. Samvarana 12. Kuru Part Three: The Pandavas and their Proximate Ancestry 13. Shamtanu and Bhishma 14. Dhritarashtra and Pandu 15. The Pandavas Part Four: Janamejaya and the Sarpasatra 16. Parikshit 17. Janamejaya 18. Conclusion Appendices; Glossary; Bibliography; Index. ERRATA p. 143: ?TApatI? should read ?TapatI? p. 250: ?Shaunaka?s? should read ?Shaunaka? p. 267: ?uncle? should read ?cousin?. Simon Brodbeck School of Religious and Theological Studies Cardiff University Wales From jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM Fri Oct 16 18:49:21 2009 From: jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM (girish jha) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 09 11:49:21 -0700 Subject: SHUBHA DIPAVALIH Message-ID: <161227087702.23782.7223747862641297376.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 271 Lines: 17 Dear Honourable Indologists, ??? ?ubha? D?p?valih? ? Jyotis?mat? man?galad? hi Laks?m?h? Sa?c?rin??? d?pa?ikheva? nityam?. ?lokayant? bahirantara?ca Kriy?d vil?sam? vasatau sames??m?.// Regards Sincerely GIRISH? K.JHA, DEPT OF SANSKRIT,PATNA UNIVERSITY,INDIA From rt2036 at COLUMBIA.EDU Sat Oct 17 16:42:17 2009 From: rt2036 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Roy Tsohar) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 09 12:42:17 -0400 Subject: NAgArjuna on polysemy Message-ID: <161227087704.23782.18389203978843300362.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 657 Lines: 19 Dear list members, I am currently working on some of Asanga's arguments in the vinizcayasaMgrahaNI, in which he uses polysemy to counter the notion of an invariable word-referent relation. Similar arguments appear in various textual sources, Buddhist as well as non Buddhist (for instance the NyAyasUtra and bhASya 2.1.56, etc). I recall reading of a similar argument made by NAgArjuna, possibly in an article of Johannes Bronkhorst citing Lindetner, but I could not find it. I would be grateful if anyone has a clue as to where this appears in NagArjuna or in which article it is cited. Many thanks, Roy Tzohar Columbia University Tel Aviv University From ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU Tue Oct 20 11:01:58 2009 From: ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Paul G. Hackett) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 09 07:01:58 -0400 Subject: Unicode fonts for Ranjana/Lentsa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087709.23782.17034324095056273113.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1002 Lines: 31 Dear McComas, Quoting McComas Taylor : > Can anyone recommend a Unicode font for Ranjana/Lentsa that will run > on a Windows system? I was looking into Ranjana fonts a couple of years ago. The short answer is that there are *some* fonts out there; the only ones I found were "RanjanaLipi" and "PrachalitLipi": http://www.ffonts.net/BISHOWSON2-Ranjana-Lipi-ISBN9993355933.font http://www.guthi.org/1html/regular_html/fonts.htm but the documentation was wanting. I know that Xenotype Technologies (http://www.xenotypetech.com) had been working on a Ranjana font, but had provisionally mapped the script to the Tibetan section of Unicode -- this was prior to Michael Everson's proposal for Ranjana to be included in Unicode in it's own section. See: http://www.unicode.org/pending/pending.html (specifically http://std.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc2/wg2/docs/n3649.pdf) I hope that helps, or is at least informative. Best, Paul Hackett Columbia University From tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU Tue Oct 20 21:58:24 2009 From: tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU (Tracy Coleman) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 09 15:58:24 -0600 Subject: Bhagavata-Purana Message-ID: <161227087711.23782.7351908460142904501.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2215 Lines: 65 Indologists-- This is a delayed response to the email below from Arlo Griffiths regarding a "critical edition" of the Bhagavata Purana. I work on the Bhagavata, but this recent edition was news to me, I must admit. Can any of you provide an assessment of this edition, however briefly? Specifically, is it a "critical edition," and if so, in what sense (which and how many sources etc.)? Is it being received as *the* critical edition, like the Critical Edition of the MBh (leaving aside the fact that not all of you accept the latter)? How much does this new edition differ from other editions that scholars have recently used as a standard, such as J.L. Shastri's with Sridhara's commentary (Motilal 1983)? Thanks so much for any further info, which will help me at least until I can get said new edition. Tracy Coleman The Colorado College -----Original Message----- From: Indology on behalf of Arlo Griffiths Sent: Thu 7/30/2009 6:11 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Bhagavata-Purana There is a relatively recent critical edition published from Adhmedabad. My copy is in storage but this seems to be it (exported and slightly expanded from worldcat): SASTRI, H. G., SHELAT, B. K., & SASTRI, K. K. (1996-2002).Sribhagavatam: Srimad Bhagavata-mahapura?am : samik?ita avr?tti. Ahamadabada, Bho. Je. Adhyayana-Sa?sodhana Vidyabhavana. Best wishes from Medan, Arlo Griffiths > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 23:46:01 +0200 > From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE > Subject: Bhagavata-Purana > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Greetings to all, > > I have been asked if there is some kind of a "standard" edition of the > Bhagavatapurana to rely upon (for citing and so on). Off hand, I > didn't know one that may be called a "standard". Or is there a > published version that serves as a "majority edition", at least? > > All the best > Peter Wyzlic > > -- > Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften > Abteilung f?r Indologie > Universit?t Bonn > Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 > 53113 Bonn _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM Tue Oct 20 23:04:19 2009 From: j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 09 16:04:19 -0700 Subject: New Issue eJIM Message-ID: <161227087716.23782.16588009211676650423.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 826 Lines: 9 Dear All, eJIM - the eJournal of Indian Medicine has just published its latest issue at?http://www.indianmedicine.nl. We invite you to review the Table of Contents here and then visit our web site to review articles and items of interest.?eJIM currently has more than 250 registered Readers.?Thanks for the continuing interest in our work,?Roelf?BarkhuisPublisher of eJIMinfo at barkhuis.nlwww.barkhuis.nl???eJIM - eJournal of Indian MedicineVol 2, No 2 (2009)Table of Contentshttp://bjournals.ub.rug.nl/index.php/ejim/issue/view/29?Articles--------Memoirs of Vaidyas. The Lives and Practices of Traditional Medical Doctors in Kerala, India (3) (25-51)????? Tsutomu Yamashita,????? P. Ram Manohar?Alchemical procedures and their implications for the chronology of medieval rasa??stra (53-65)??????Oliver Hellwig? From McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Tue Oct 20 10:20:39 2009 From: McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 09 21:20:39 +1100 Subject: Unicode fonts for Ranjana/Lentsa Message-ID: <161227087707.23782.16030112025510911043.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 138 Lines: 10 Dear Colleagues Can anyone recommend a Unicode font for Ranjana/Lentsa that will run on a Windows system? Thanks in advance McComas From harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Oct 20 22:09:45 2009 From: harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM (Harsha Dehejia) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 09 22:09:45 +0000 Subject: Bhagavata-Purana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087713.23782.16122922875660333432.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 328 Lines: 24 Friends: I have the X book of the critical edition and am going through it. On a related note can any one tell me if there is critical edition of Sur Sagar? I had heard that some one at the University of British Columbia was working on it. Regards. Harsha Harsha V. dehejia Ottawa, ON., Canada. From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Wed Oct 21 08:11:49 2009 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 09 10:11:49 +0200 Subject: Bhagavata-Purana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087718.23782.16484520847569983077.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3131 Lines: 90 It is a true critical edition as useful as the MBh, Rm, Vi.s.nuP etc. ones. Now, like for the others (in which I have not included the so perfect "original" SkP critical edition... the only one really worthy of that name according to some), many remarks (on methodological principles or on peculiar points) can be made on it. Dealing with this Ahmedabad edition of the BhgP, I remember the critical ("carping"?) paper of Harunaga Isaacson "Grasping a hare's horn? Critically editing the Puraa.nas", presented at the XIIth WSC in Helsinki (2003), but it seems to have not been published yet. There should be some reviews of the Ahmedabad volumes but I have not listed them, and would be happy to hear about. With best wishes, Christophe Vielle >Indologists-- > >This is a delayed response to the email below from Arlo Griffiths >regarding a "critical edition" of the Bhagavata Purana. I work on the >Bhagavata, but this recent edition was news to me, I must admit. Can any >of you provide an assessment of this edition, however briefly? >Specifically, is it a "critical edition," and if so, in what sense (which >and how many sources etc.)? Is it being received as *the* critical >edition, like the Critical Edition of the MBh (leaving aside the fact that >not all of you accept the latter)? How much does this new edition differ >from other editions that scholars have recently used as a standard, such >as J.L. Shastri's with Sridhara's commentary (Motilal 1983)? > >Thanks so much for any further info, which will help me at least until I >can get said new edition. > >Tracy Coleman >The Colorado College > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Indology on behalf of Arlo Griffiths >Sent: Thu 7/30/2009 6:11 PM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: Re: Bhagavata-Purana > > >There is a relatively recent critical edition published from Adhmedabad. >My copy is in storage but this seems to be it (exported and slightly >expanded from worldcat): >SASTRI, H. G., SHELAT, B. K., & SASTRI, K. K. (1996-2002).Sribhagavatam: >Srimad Bhagavata-mahapura?am : samik?ita avr?tti. Ahamadabada, Bho. Je. >Adhyayana-Sa?sodhana Vidyabhavana. > >Best wishes from Medan, >Arlo Griffiths > >> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 23:46:01 +0200 >> From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE >> Subject: Bhagavata-Purana >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> >> Greetings to all, >> >> I have been asked if there is some kind of a "standard" edition of the >> Bhagavatapurana to rely upon (for citing and so on). Off hand, I >> didn't know one that may be called a "standard". Or is there a >> published version that serves as a "majority edition", at least? >> >> All the best >> Peter Wyzlic >> >> -- >> Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften >> Abteilung f?r Indologie >> Universit?t Bonn >> Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 >> 53113 Bonn > >_________________________________________________________________ >Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! >http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.lalibreblogs.be From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Wed Oct 21 17:07:07 2009 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 09 19:07:07 +0200 Subject: upcoming London exhibition of Tibetan MSS Message-ID: <161227087721.23782.17572602583226739611.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 270 Lines: 14 Forwarded message: --------------------------- Please click here to view our exhibition online: http://www.samfogg.com/cgi-bin/gallery-2.pl?type=exhibition&id=20091029a&style=2 Sam Fogg Ltd. 15D Clifford Street London W1S 4JZ Tel: 020 7534 2100 Fax: 020 7534 2122 From avandergeer at PLANET.NL Thu Oct 22 18:24:16 2009 From: avandergeer at PLANET.NL (Alexandra Vandergeer) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 09 20:24:16 +0200 Subject: medieval industries Message-ID: <161227087723.23782.9615290909143846208.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 307 Lines: 8 Dear all, I'm not familiar with South Asian industries between 1000 and 1500 CE, does anybody have a good suggestion as to which literature to read on the subject and which recent articles to check? With industries I mean them all: wood, glass, textile, paper, metals and so on. Alexandra van der Geer From jenni.cover at URSYS.COM.AU Fri Oct 23 00:34:56 2009 From: jenni.cover at URSYS.COM.AU (Jennifer Cover) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 09 11:34:56 +1100 Subject: Source of verses Message-ID: <161227087725.23782.13871858867742304765.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1839 Lines: 66 Greetings, Does anyone recognise some or all of these verses ? or parts of them (my translation included)? They are at the end of a section called upade?a?o?a?? in a text called Bodhas?ra. They may have been witten by the author, Narahari, but even if he did, often verses like this are based on traditional sources. Any suggestions as to where to begin looking for a possible source would be much appreciated. Since this text was written in the 18th century I am wondering if there is some Sufi/Urdu poetry influence. Kaishmir Shaivism is another possibility. atra ?lok?? | varayogy?si kaly??i na sth?syasi vara? vin? | vara??yo varast?d?gyo bhavedajar?mara? ||13|| na ???o?i vara? y?vatt?vatte kampate mana? | pa?c?nmahottsavairbhadre sv?mina? tva? vari?yasi ||14|| pare?a puru?e??dya ramasva vacan?nmama | sakhi pa?c?tsvata?citta? kuru yatr?dhika? sukham ||15|| y?ta? dina? na punareti nava? vayaste lajj?? vih?ya bhaja ta? rama??yar?pam | b?le para? puru?a e?a yad? sameta? svarge?a ki? kimu tad? n?sukhena v? te ||16|| Some verses on this. 13. O beautiful one, you are ready for a husband. You will not remain without a husband. The husband to be chosen should be one free from aging and death. 14. O auspicious one, as long as you do not hear about your husband your mind will be agitated. After (hearing) you will choose your husband with great rejoicing. 15. O friend, now, because of my words, delight with another man (the supreme puru?a). Later establish your mind, yourself, where there is superior happiness. 16. O youth, the past day will not come again. You have new youth. Abandon modesty and enjoy that beautiful one. When this supreme puru?a is met then what is the use of heaven or human happiness for you? Thankyou, Dr Jennifer Cover Sydney Australia From jataber at UNM.EDU Sat Oct 24 15:00:09 2009 From: jataber at UNM.EDU (John Taber) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 09 09:00:09 -0600 Subject: Job ad--a position in paradise? In-Reply-To: <000e01ca547e$6caf7110$5025128b@uni9b34de09f1e> Message-ID: <161227087730.23782.4408605884986085377.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2073 Lines: 53 As Torella said, it's a paradise that everyone seems to want to escape from. Note that it's also for an assistant professor. By the way, Roy Perrett is coming to New Mexico in couple of weeks to give a talk. Hope you're having a good weekend. J. On Oct 24, 2009, at 1:48 AM, Eli Franco wrote: > UNIVERSITY OF HAWAI'I AT MANOA, Honolulu, HI. Assistant Professor, > Position Number 83528, Department of Philosophy, College of Arts and > Humanities. The UH-Manoa Department of Philosophy invites > applications for > a full-time, 9-month, tenure-track, Assistant Professor position, > beginning > August 1, 2010, subject to position clearance and availability of > funds. > Minimum Qualifications: Ph.D. in Philosophy (ABDs will be considered > provided that all degree requirements are completed by August 1, > 2010). > AOS: EITHER (1) South Asian Buddhist philosophy (including > competency in > Sanskrit) OR (2) ancient Greek philosophy (including competency in > ancient > Greek). Desirable Qualifications: Demonstrated excellence in > teaching and > research; one or more years' prior experience as an assistant > professor at > a research university. AOC: Ethical theory and social/political > philosophy, continental philosophy, or aesthetics; ability to teach > introductory formal logic. Duties: Teach courses in areas of > specialization and competence, dissertation supervision, service on > Department committees, and other duties as assigned by the Chair. Pay > range: Salary commensurate with qualifications and experience. To > apply: > Submit cover letter, c.v., three current letters of recommendation, > graduate transcripts, a brief writing sample, and evidence of teaching > excellence. Application address: Search Committee, Department of > Philosophy, 2530 Dole St., Honolulu HI 96822. For additional > information > contact Kenneth Kipnis, Chair, (808) 956-8649, . > Review of applications will begin on November 23, 2009 and continue > until > position is filled. AA/EEO. > > > From franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Sat Oct 24 07:48:49 2009 From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE (Eli Franco) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 09 09:48:49 +0200 Subject: Job ad--a position in paradise? In-Reply-To: <694725.23766.qm@web43131.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227087727.23782.5972062201164905488.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1682 Lines: 30 UNIVERSITY OF HAWAI'I AT MANOA, Honolulu, HI. Assistant Professor, Position Number 83528, Department of Philosophy, College of Arts and Humanities. The UH-Manoa Department of Philosophy invites applications for a full-time, 9-month, tenure-track, Assistant Professor position, beginning August 1, 2010, subject to position clearance and availability of funds. Minimum Qualifications: Ph.D. in Philosophy (ABDs will be considered provided that all degree requirements are completed by August 1, 2010). AOS: EITHER (1) South Asian Buddhist philosophy (including competency in Sanskrit) OR (2) ancient Greek philosophy (including competency in ancient Greek). Desirable Qualifications: Demonstrated excellence in teaching and research; one or more years' prior experience as an assistant professor at a research university. AOC: Ethical theory and social/political philosophy, continental philosophy, or aesthetics; ability to teach introductory formal logic. Duties: Teach courses in areas of specialization and competence, dissertation supervision, service on Department committees, and other duties as assigned by the Chair. Pay range: Salary commensurate with qualifications and experience. To apply: Submit cover letter, c.v., three current letters of recommendation, graduate transcripts, a brief writing sample, and evidence of teaching excellence. Application address: Search Committee, Department of Philosophy, 2530 Dole St., Honolulu HI 96822. For additional information contact Kenneth Kipnis, Chair, (808) 956-8649, . Review of applications will begin on November 23, 2009 and continue until position is filled. AA/EEO. From jataber at UNM.EDU Sat Oct 24 16:36:12 2009 From: jataber at UNM.EDU (John Taber) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 09 10:36:12 -0600 Subject: goof Message-ID: <161227087732.23782.7412134707634376634.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 111 Lines: 7 My apologies for sending a personal email intended for Eli Franco out to the entire listserv! John Taber From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Sun Oct 25 03:53:59 2009 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (George Thompson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 09 23:53:59 -0400 Subject: EJVS Laurasian academy? In-Reply-To: <000e01ca547e$6caf7110$5025128b@uni9b34de09f1e> Message-ID: <161227087735.23782.1812629780422846405.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 298 Lines: 13 Dear List, I have been trying to download articles recently from EJVS, but I get transferred to some website called the Laurasian Academy instead. It appears to be some online "academy," with no obvious connection to EJVS. Can someone help with this? Thanks in advance, George Thompson From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Sun Oct 25 11:16:14 2009 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 09 07:16:14 -0400 Subject: EJVS Laurasian academy? In-Reply-To: <4AE3CBD7.40408@comcast.net> Message-ID: <161227087737.23782.17733919468376072757.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 926 Lines: 40 The Laurasian website was down for some days. It is functioning again. There is a clear link to EJVS at the bottom of the Laurasian page. It is working as well. Cheers, MW. On Oct 24, 2009, at 11:53 PM, George Thompson wrote: > Dear List, > > I have been trying to download articles recently from EJVS, but I > get transferred to some website called the Laurasian Academy > instead. It appears to be some online "academy," with no obvious > connection to EJVS. Can someone help with this? > > Thanks in advance, > > George Thompson ============ Michael Witzel witzel at fas.harvard.edu Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University 1 Bow Street, Cambridge MA 02138, USA phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295 (voice & messages), 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; my direct line: 617- 496 2990 From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Mon Oct 26 21:26:55 2009 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 09 17:26:55 -0400 Subject: A. Piatigorsky passed away Message-ID: <161227087740.23782.4588279294319968779.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 919 Lines: 43 Dear All, I transmit sad news, received via our PhD candidate, N. Yanchevskaya (ABD). MW ---------------------------------- Alexander Piatigorsky, the renowned Russian philosopher, writer, and scholar of Buddhism and Indian philosophy, has passed away yesterday, October 25, 2009, in London at the age of 80. Here are announcements and obituaries in Russian: ----------------- Nataliya Yanchevskaya Dept. of Sanskrit and Indian Studies Harvard University ============ Michael Witzel witzel at fas.harvard.edu Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University 1 Bow Street, Cambridge MA 02138, USA phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295 (voice & messages), 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; my direct line: 617- 496 2990 From McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Tue Oct 27 02:47:17 2009 From: McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 09 13:47:17 +1100 Subject: 'Plants of the Meghaduta' multimedia website Message-ID: <161227087742.23782.11095289891342887115.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 616 Lines: 18 Dear friends Some time ago, I posted a link to Tomomi Sato's Meghaduta multimedia website. At that stage, the site only run under Internet Explorer. Tomomi now has a version of the site that runs well in Firefox: http://meghaduta.awardspace.info/ We would be delighted if you would care to visit it. This was Tomomi's 4th year project on flowers and trees of the Meghaduta. You will find her own English and Japanese translations, artworks and beautiful sung renditions of selected verses. I'm sure Tomomi would love to hear some feedback. Her email address is: u4238655 at anu.edu.au Yours McComas Taylor From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Wed Oct 28 14:21:02 2009 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 09 15:21:02 +0100 Subject: GRETIL update #359 Message-ID: <161227087744.23782.16947976045611058721.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 618 Lines: 23 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Somadeva: Kathasaritsagara, Vetalapancavimsatika: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#SomKath_Vet (plain text and analytic version) __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Thu Oct 29 11:31:24 2009 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 09 11:31:24 +0000 Subject: medieval industries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087746.23782.14043083949910143396.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 495 Lines: 17 The publications of the late Oppi Untracht are classics of this field, and include materials on India. Best, Dominik Wujastyk On Thu, 22 Oct 2009, Alexandra Vandergeer wrote: > Dear all, > > I'm not familiar with South Asian industries between 1000 and 1500 CE, does anybody have a good suggestion as to which literature to read on the subject and which recent articles to check? With industries I mean them all: wood, glass, textile, paper, metals and so on. > > Alexandra van der Geer > From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Thu Oct 29 22:54:53 2009 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 09 15:54:53 -0700 Subject: 'Plants of the Meghaduta' multimedia website In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087748.23782.16338160819312510109.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2245 Lines: 63 Dear Dr. Taylor, I'm sure I'm repeating here what others may have already spoken about Tomomi's multimedia work on the flowers and trees of the Meghaduta. However, one more positive feedback from someone enthusiastically supporting Tomomi's effort won't hurt, I thought. Tomomi's multimedia work on the flowers and trees of the Meghaduta is unique, as far as I know, and is extremely impressive, delightful, and informative! Such work would provide, if it hasn't already, an insight into understanding the native plants and how those plants formed an integral part of one's life in ancient times. A similar study of the various plants/flowers mentioned in ancient Tamil poetry, for example in the long list of flowers mentioned in the poem called the *kuRincippATTu,* would be really educational, I think. And, especially with the new awareness of *health* everywhere in the present century, such studies may remind people to understand the health benefits of plants and flowers. The only different comment I have is about Tomomi's presentation style--the graphical user interface (GUI), the look/design of the Web site, etc.-- which I'd be happy to discuss separately since such topic may not be of interest to the main stream audience of this list. Please feel free to contact me at if you'd like to hear my views on the UI of Tomomi's Web site. I have some experience in the IT world and in providing feedback on software UI. Thanks and regards, V.S. Rajam On Oct 26, 2009, at 7:47 PM, McComas Taylor wrote: > Dear friends > > Some time ago, I posted a link to Tomomi Sato's Meghaduta > multimedia website. At that stage, the site only run under Internet > Explorer. Tomomi now has a version of the site that runs well in > Firefox: > > http://meghaduta.awardspace.info/ > > We would be delighted if you would care to visit it. This was > Tomomi's 4th year project on flowers and trees of the Meghaduta. > You will find her own English and Japanese translations, artworks > and beautiful sung renditions of selected verses. > > I'm sure Tomomi would love to hear some feedback. Her email address > is: > > u4238655 at anu.edu.au > > Yours > > McComas Taylor From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Sat Oct 31 14:04:21 2009 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 07:04:21 -0700 Subject: yugas and colours In-Reply-To: <8CA1900E-45FF-4842-83EA-25F4589F72D6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227087753.23782.7943371841533802823.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1003 Lines: 35 From ParipaTal 3, about the 3rd or 4th century BCE: Your wonder is such that you are counted through four kinds of eons: zero, quarter, half, one, two three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine! Black one with red eyes! White one with black eyes! Green one with golden eyes! Dark one with green eyes! George Hart On Oct 30, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Dominic Goodall wrote: > Dear all, > > Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes colour > in each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na? > > BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato 'nuyuga.m > tanuu.h > BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m k.r.s.nataa.m > gata.h > > I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of the > Mahaabhaarata, e.g. > > 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge raktataa.m > 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam > abhyaagata.h > > Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references? > > Dominic Goodall From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Sat Oct 31 14:29:49 2009 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 07:29:49 -0700 Subject: yugas and colours In-Reply-To: <0B1854C6-BEDF-4B6E-B0DD-728B0493BDEE@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227087756.23782.14667674894580792393.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1519 Lines: 45 I neglected to mention that this is from a translation I made together with V.S. Rajam quite a few years ago. It is well accepted that the Bhaagavata was written by a Tamilian who knew the Tamil Srivaisnava tradition and texts. From reading the 10th book many years ago and looking over these poems, it strikes me that the author was very likely familiar with the great poems of the ParipaaTal also. George Hart On Oct 31, 2009, at 7:04 AM, George Hart wrote: > From ParipaTal 3, about the 3rd or 4th century BCE: > > Your wonder is such that you are counted > through four kinds of eons: zero, quarter, half, one, two > three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine! Black one > with red eyes! White one with black eyes! Green one > with golden eyes! Dark one with green eyes! > > George Hart > > On Oct 30, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Dominic Goodall wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes colour >> in each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na? >> >> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato 'nuyuga.m >> tanuu.h >> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m k.r.s.nataa.m >> gata.h >> >> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of the >> Mahaabhaarata, e.g. >> >> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge raktataa.m >> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam >> abhyaagata.h >> >> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references? >> >> Dominic Goodall From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Sat Oct 31 15:53:40 2009 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 08:53:40 -0700 Subject: yugas and colours In-Reply-To: <6F6B67F03E334E889A7E5BE24A4D276D@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <161227087765.23782.8501904058856481716.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2202 Lines: 77 Of course it's CE, not BCE. None of the Tamil works can be dated to BCE -- though we do have inscriptions from the first couple centuries BCE. The Tamil is paaz ena kaal ena paaku ena onRu ena pari.3-77 iraNTu ena muunRu ena naanku ena aintu ena pari.3-78 aaRu ena eezu ena eTTu ena toNTu ena pari.3-79 naalvakai uuzi eN naviRRum ciRappinai pari.3-80 ce kaN kaari karu kaN veLLai pari.3-81 pon kaN paccai pai kaN maaal pari.3-82 (Malten's transcription) "Black" is from kaari, ultimately from karu, the standard word for "black." "Dark" is maal, which can mean "blackness" or "greatness," "great man," "Visnu." "Dark one with green eyes" could also mean "Green-eyed Visnu!" -- which might make more sense, as "black" has already been used. The word for "green" can also mean "yellow." George Hart On Oct 31, 2009, at 8:00 AM, JKirkpatrick wrote: > I'm curious as to what are the words for "black" and "dark" in > this typology? > The usual colors cropping up in such typologies are white, red, > yellow, and blue/green/black. > > JK > ============= > > On Behalf Of George Hart > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 8:04 AM > > > From ParipaTal 3, about the 3rd or 4th century BCE: > > Your wonder is such that you are counted through four kinds of > eons: zero, quarter, half, one, two three, four, five, six, > seven, eight, nine! Black one with red eyes! White one with > black eyes! Green one with golden eyes! Dark one with green > eyes! > > George Hart > > On Oct 30, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Dominic Goodall wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes > colour in >> each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na? >> >> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato > 'nuyuga.m >> tanuu.h >> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m > k.r.s.nataa.m >> gata.h >> >> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of > the >> Mahaabhaarata, e.g. >> >> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge > raktataa.m >> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam >> abhyaagata.h >> >> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references? >> >> Dominic Goodall From jkirk at SPRO.NET Sat Oct 31 15:00:02 2009 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 09:00:02 -0600 Subject: yugas and colours In-Reply-To: <0B1854C6-BEDF-4B6E-B0DD-728B0493BDEE@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227087762.23782.14734158169517519384.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1259 Lines: 52 I'm curious as to what are the words for "black" and "dark" in this typology? The usual colors cropping up in such typologies are white, red, yellow, and blue/green/black. JK ============= On Behalf Of George Hart Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 8:04 AM From ParipaTal 3, about the 3rd or 4th century BCE: Your wonder is such that you are counted through four kinds of eons: zero, quarter, half, one, two three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine! Black one with red eyes! White one with black eyes! Green one with golden eyes! Dark one with green eyes! George Hart On Oct 30, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Dominic Goodall wrote: > Dear all, > > Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes colour in > each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na? > > BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato 'nuyuga.m > tanuu.h > BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m k.r.s.nataa.m > gata.h > > I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of the > Mahaabhaarata, e.g. > > 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge raktataa.m > 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam > abhyaagata.h > > Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references? > > Dominic Goodall From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Sat Oct 31 06:10:29 2009 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 11:40:29 +0530 Subject: yugas and colours Message-ID: <161227087751.23782.14905763695248645005.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 592 Lines: 22 Dear all, Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes colour in each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na? BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato 'nuyuga.m tanuu.h BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m k.r.s.nataa.m gata.h I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of the Mahaabhaarata, e.g. 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge raktataa.m 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam abhyaagata.h Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references? Dominic Goodall From jkirk at SPRO.NET Sat Oct 31 17:51:07 2009 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 11:51:07 -0600 Subject: yugas and colours In-Reply-To: <86E19A26-D5CE-4A89-A9F6-A04C1512BE34@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227087771.23782.11408232389058185345.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2228 Lines: 89 Thanks. JK ================= Of course it's CE, not BCE. None of the Tamil works can be dated to BCE -- though we do have inscriptions from the first couple centuries BCE. The Tamil is paaz ena kaal ena paaku ena onRu ena pari.3-77 iraNTu ena muunRu ena naanku ena aintu ena pari.3-78 aaRu ena eezu ena eTTu ena toNTu ena pari.3-79 naalvakai uuzi eN naviRRum ciRappinai pari.3-80 ce kaN kaari karu kaN veLLai pari.3-81 pon kaN paccai pai kaN maaal pari.3-82 (Malten's transcription) "Black" is from kaari, ultimately from karu, the standard word for "black." "Dark" is maal, which can mean "blackness" or "greatness," "great man," "Visnu." "Dark one with green eyes" could also mean "Green-eyed Visnu!" -- which might make more sense, as "black" has already been used. The word for "green" can also mean "yellow." George Hart On Oct 31, 2009, at 8:00 AM, JKirkpatrick wrote: > I'm curious as to what are the words for "black" and "dark" in this > typology? > The usual colors cropping up in such typologies are white, red, > yellow, and blue/green/black. > > JK > ============= > > On Behalf Of George Hart > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 8:04 AM > > > From ParipaTal 3, about the 3rd or 4th century BCE: > > Your wonder is such that you are counted through four kinds of > eons: zero, quarter, half, one, two three, four, five, six, seven, > eight, nine! Black one with red eyes! White one with black eyes! > Green one with golden eyes! Dark one with green eyes! > > George Hart > > On Oct 30, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Dominic Goodall wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes > colour in >> each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na? >> >> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato > 'nuyuga.m >> tanuu.h >> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m > k.r.s.nataa.m >> gata.h >> >> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of > the >> Mahaabhaarata, e.g. >> >> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge > raktataa.m >> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam >> abhyaagata.h >> >> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references? >> >> Dominic Goodall From reimann at BERKELEY.EDU Sat Oct 31 20:30:24 2009 From: reimann at BERKELEY.EDU (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 13:30:24 -0700 Subject: yugas and colours In-Reply-To: <4AEC900F.60205@uni-hamburg.de> Message-ID: <161227087779.23782.2571387029586329572.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1562 Lines: 67 The colors in 3.148, mentioned by Harunaga, are: Krta: white Treta: red Dvapara: yellow Kali: black But there is a different version in Mbh 3.187.31: Krta: white Treta: yellow Dvapara: red Kali: black Where the colors for Treta and Dvapara are reversed. I discuss this in my book /The Mahabharata and the Yugas/ (pp. 103, 114-116). Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann _____ on 10/31/2009 12:29 PM Harunaga Isaacson wrote: > And it is in the MBh, not only in passages excluded from the critical > edition (such as that which DG > quoted), but also in 3.148 ("sukla in vs. 16, rakta in 23, piita in > 26, and k.r.s.na in 33). > > Harunaga Isaacson > > > Peter Bisschop wrote: >> It is found in the Vi.s.nudharma (edition R. Gruenendahl): >> 104.27 ("sukla), 104.35 (rakta), 104.38 (piita), 104.45 (k.r.s.na) >> >> Peter Bisschop >> >> Quoting Dominic Goodall : >> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes colour in >>> each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na? >>> >>> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato 'nuyuga.m >>> tanuu.h >>> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m k.r.s.nataa.m >>> gata.h >>> >>> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of the >>> Mahaabhaarata, e.g. >>> >>> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge raktataa.m >>> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam >>> abhyaagata.h >>> >>> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references? >>> >>> Dominic Goodall >> >> >> > > From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Sat Oct 31 14:38:50 2009 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 15:38:50 +0100 Subject: yugas and colours In-Reply-To: <0B1854C6-BEDF-4B6E-B0DD-728B0493BDEE@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227087759.23782.11561938535016148448.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1354 Lines: 51 Dear George, I suppose this is a /lapsus calami/ and you meant "CE" (and not "BC"). Zvelebil, in his /Lexicon of Tamil Literature/ [1995:528], summarizing discussions on the date of Parip??al, writes: "Prob. date between latter half of 4th and first half of the 6th c." Best wishes -- Jean-Luc George Hart a ?crit : > From ParipaTal 3, about the 3rd or 4th century BCE: > > Your wonder is such that you are counted > through four kinds of eons: zero, quarter, half, one, two > three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine! Black one > with red eyes! White one with black eyes! Green one > with golden eyes! Dark one with green eyes! > > George Hart > > On Oct 30, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Dominic Goodall wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes colour in >> each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na? >> >> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato 'nuyuga.m tanuu.h >> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m k.r.s.nataa.m >> gata.h >> >> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of the >> Mahaabhaarata, e.g. >> >> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge raktataa.m >> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam >> abhyaagata.h >> >> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references? >> >> Dominic Goodall > From reimann at BERKELEY.EDU Sat Oct 31 23:00:22 2009 From: reimann at BERKELEY.EDU (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 16:00:22 -0700 Subject: yugas and colours In-Reply-To: <4AECA794.2010707@columbia.edu> Message-ID: <161227087785.23782.17499727396975470576.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2559 Lines: 92 This is interesting. The /Vayu Purana/ (1.32.14-19) had already said that kAla (time) had four faces, which are the yugas. It doesn't associate them with the directions, but it does mention the colors. Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann _____ on 10/31/2009 2:09 PM Tenzin Bob Thurman wrote: > Just noticed this discussion, and it brought to mind the not unrelated > fact that the faces of the Buddha Kaalachakra and the dirctional > colors in his mandala palace are precisely those, front-east black, > right-south red, back-west yellow, left-north white. ince his body is > supposed to represent all the "parts" of time, fitting that his faces > represent the yugas. > > That mandala is the only one in the Tibetan collection that I know of > that uses those colors for the faces and directions. > > Bob Thurman > > > Luis Gonzalez-Reimann wrote: >> The colors in 3.148, mentioned by Harunaga, are: >> >> Krta: white >> Treta: red >> Dvapara: yellow >> Kali: black >> >> But there is a different version in Mbh 3.187.31: >> >> Krta: white >> Treta: yellow >> Dvapara: red >> Kali: black >> >> Where the colors for Treta and Dvapara are reversed. >> >> I discuss this in my book /The Mahabharata and the Yugas/ (pp. 103, >> 114-116). >> >> Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann >> _____ >> >> on 10/31/2009 12:29 PM Harunaga Isaacson wrote: >>> And it is in the MBh, not only in passages excluded from the >>> critical edition (such as that which DG >>> quoted), but also in 3.148 ("sukla in vs. 16, rakta in 23, piita in >>> 26, and k.r.s.na in 33). >>> >>> Harunaga Isaacson >>> >>> >>> Peter Bisschop wrote: >>>> It is found in the Vi.s.nudharma (edition R. Gruenendahl): >>>> 104.27 ("sukla), 104.35 (rakta), 104.38 (piita), 104.45 (k.r.s.na) >>>> >>>> Peter Bisschop >>>> >>>> Quoting Dominic Goodall : >>>> >>>>> Dear all, >>>>> >>>>> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes colour in >>>>> each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na? >>>>> >>>>> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato 'nuyuga.m >>>>> tanuu.h >>>>> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m k.r.s.nataa.m >>>>> gata.h >>>>> >>>>> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of the >>>>> Mahaabhaarata, e.g. >>>>> >>>>> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge raktataa.m >>>>> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam >>>>> abhyaagata.h >>>>> >>>>> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references? >>>>> >>>>> Dominic Goodall >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > From reimann at BERKELEY.EDU Sat Oct 31 23:13:20 2009 From: reimann at BERKELEY.EDU (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 16:13:20 -0700 Subject: yugas and colours In-Reply-To: <790675.42435.qm@web8607.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227087789.23782.634430945091858527.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3530 Lines: 108 But Mitchiner dates the Yuga Purana to the 1st century BCE, not the 5th century CE. Pingree dates it to the same century as Mitchiner, or possibly to the following one. Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann _____ on 10/31/2009 10:11 AM Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > It is all right that the century belongs to the CE. Still a southern claim to the origin of the idea is not, perhaps, reduced by that. I checked the Yugapur??a (edMitchiner, AS,Calcutta1986 BI 312).but did not find any reference to the colour of the yugas. That means the absence of the idea in the North till the 5th Cent.CE (YP so dated/Mitchiner). The extant Bh?gavata could not have been redacted in the North. Its flowery classical k?vya style was a dead thing in the North during the time when it is supposed to have been redacted from a lost older Bh?gavata. The South can make a strong claim. > Best > DB > > ________________________________ > From: George Hart > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Sent: Sat, 31 October, 2009 9:23:40 PM > Subject: Re: yugas and colours > > Of course it's CE, not BCE. None of the Tamil works can be dated to BCE -- though we do have inscriptions from the first couple centuries BCE. > > The Tamil is > > paaz ena kaal ena paaku ena onRu ena pari.3-77 > iraNTu ena muunRu ena naanku ena aintu ena pari.3-78 > aaRu ena eezu ena eTTu ena toNTu ena pari.3-79 > naalvakai uuzi eN naviRRum ciRappinai pari.3-80 > ce kaN kaari karu kaN veLLai pari.3-81 > pon kaN paccai pai kaN maaal pari.3-82 > > (Malten's transcription) > > "Black" is from kaari, ultimately from karu, the standard word for "black." "Dark" is maal, which can mean "blackness" or "greatness," "great man," "Visnu." "Dark one with green eyes" could also mean "Green-eyed Visnu!" -- which might make more sense, as "black" has already been used. The word for "green" can also mean "yellow." > > George Hart > > On Oct 31, 2009, at 8:00 AM, JKirkpatrick wrote: > > >> I'm curious as to what are the words for "black" and "dark" in >> this typology? >> The usual colors cropping up in such typologies are white, red, >> yellow, and blue/green/black. >> >> JK >> ============= >> >> On Behalf Of George Hart >> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 8:04 AM >> >> >> From ParipaTal 3, about the 3rd or 4th century BCE: >> >> Your wonder is such that you are counted through four kinds of >> eons: zero, quarter, half, one, two three, four, five, six, >> seven, eight, nine! Black one with red eyes! White one with >> black eyes! Green one with golden eyes! Dark one with green >> eyes! >> >> George Hart >> >> On Oct 30, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Dominic Goodall wrote: >> >> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes >>> >> colour in >> >>> each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na? >>> >>> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato >>> >> 'nuyuga.m >> >>> tanuu.h >>> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m >>> >> k.r.s.nataa.m >> >>> gata.h >>> >>> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of >>> >> the >> >>> Mahaabhaarata, e.g. >>> >>> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge >>> >> raktataa.m >> >>> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam >>> abhyaagata.h >>> >>> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references? >>> >>> Dominic Goodall >>> > > > > Try the new Yahoo! India Homepage. Click here. http://in.yahoo.com/trynew > > From tbt7 at COLUMBIA.EDU Sat Oct 31 21:09:40 2009 From: tbt7 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Tenzin Bob Thurman) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 17:09:40 -0400 Subject: yugas and colours In-Reply-To: <4AEC9E60.5030803@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227087782.23782.17962171056682218953.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2185 Lines: 83 Just noticed this discussion, and it brought to mind the not unrelated fact that the faces of the Buddha Kaalachakra and the dirctional colors in his mandala palace are precisely those, front-east black, right-south red, back-west yellow, left-north white. ince his body is supposed to represent all the "parts" of time, fitting that his faces represent the yugas. That mandala is the only one in the Tibetan collection that I know of that uses those colors for the faces and directions. Bob Thurman Luis Gonzalez-Reimann wrote: > The colors in 3.148, mentioned by Harunaga, are: > > Krta: white > Treta: red > Dvapara: yellow > Kali: black > > But there is a different version in Mbh 3.187.31: > > Krta: white > Treta: yellow > Dvapara: red > Kali: black > > Where the colors for Treta and Dvapara are reversed. > > I discuss this in my book /The Mahabharata and the Yugas/ (pp. 103, > 114-116). > > Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann > _____ > > on 10/31/2009 12:29 PM Harunaga Isaacson wrote: >> And it is in the MBh, not only in passages excluded from the critical >> edition (such as that which DG >> quoted), but also in 3.148 ("sukla in vs. 16, rakta in 23, piita in >> 26, and k.r.s.na in 33). >> >> Harunaga Isaacson >> >> >> Peter Bisschop wrote: >>> It is found in the Vi.s.nudharma (edition R. Gruenendahl): >>> 104.27 ("sukla), 104.35 (rakta), 104.38 (piita), 104.45 (k.r.s.na) >>> >>> Peter Bisschop >>> >>> Quoting Dominic Goodall : >>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes colour in >>>> each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na? >>>> >>>> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato 'nuyuga.m >>>> tanuu.h >>>> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m k.r.s.nataa.m >>>> gata.h >>>> >>>> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of the >>>> Mahaabhaarata, e.g. >>>> >>>> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge raktataa.m >>>> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam >>>> abhyaagata.h >>>> >>>> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references? >>>> >>>> Dominic Goodall >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > From Palaniappa at AOL.COM Sat Oct 31 23:08:31 2009 From: Palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 19:08:31 -0400 Subject: yugas and colours Message-ID: <161227087787.23782.315315784319649240.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4855 Lines: 126 We have to distinguish between the date of individual poems and the date of the anthologies. The chronology of Classical Tamil Poetry and the books of Tolkappiyam need to be revisited in light of new evidence. Iravatham Mahadevan's dating/staging of Tamil Brahmi I and Tamil Brahmi II in his "Early Tamil Epigraphy" has been revised now. Mahadevan also agrees with the revision. See p. 213 in "Pottery Inscriptions of Tamil Nadu - A Comparative View" by Y. Subbarayalu in ,Airavati, Varalaaru.com, 2008, p.209-248. Subbarayalu also says Tamil Brahmi II and Tamil Brahmi III need to be considered as belonging to the same stage. Subbarayalu's note "If the TB-I/TB-II classification loses its chronological basis, then Mahadevan's dates given to the rock inscriptions, at least to some, on the basis of this classification would need some revision. For instance, the Jambai inscription of Atiyan Nedumaan A~nci, which is assigned by Mahadevan (2003, p.399) to first century CE should be more appropriately put in about 200 BCE or even earlier. However his overall dating does not suffer as it is supported by other pieces of evidence" is very important for dating the Tamil poems. Atiyan Nedumaan A~nci is the hero praised in many Classical Tamil poems. Also, in light of the Tamil confederacy mentioned in Hathigumpha inscription (1st century BCE) as well as suggested by Akam 31, which I had discussed in the list earlier, we have to evaluate the possibility of some poems to be dated at least to the first century BCE. (We can safely disregard the theory of Pandyan kings organizing a number of poets to cook up/invent Classical Tamil poetry in the 9th/10th century CE.) With respect to the dating of Tolkappiyam, in his "Early Tamil Epigraphy", Mahadevan had failed to take into account an important paper by Rajam Ramamurti,in IJDL."The Relevance of the Terms mey, o_r_ru, and pu.l.li to the System of Tamil Morpho-Phonemics," IJDL, V. 9, no. 1, 1982, 167-183. I pointed this out during Mahadevan's book release event at Harvard in 2003. .The point is the date of at least the first book of Tolkappiyam should most probably precede any occurrence of the dotted consonant in epigraphy. (I have a draft of a note discussing this but never got around to publishing it.). . It will be interesting to see if this reevaluation of dating of Classical Tamil poems has any impact on the date of individual poems in Paripaa.tal too. Regards, Palaniappan In a message dated 10/31/2009 10:54:09 A.M. Central Daylight Time, glhart at BERKELEY.EDU writes: Of course it's CE, not BCE. None of the Tamil works can be dated to BCE -- though we do have inscriptions from the first couple centuries BCE. The Tamil is paaz ena kaal ena paaku ena onRu ena pari.3-77 iraNTu ena muunRu ena naanku ena aintu ena pari.3-78 aaRu ena eezu ena eTTu ena toNTu ena pari.3-79 naalvakai uuzi eN naviRRum ciRappinai pari.3-80 ce kaN kaari karu kaN veLLai pari.3-81 pon kaN paccai pai kaN maaal pari.3-82 (Malten's transcription) "Black" is from kaari, ultimately from karu, the standard word for "black." "Dark" is maal, which can mean "blackness" or "greatness," "great man," "Visnu." "Dark one with green eyes" could also mean "Green-eyed Visnu!" -- which might make more sense, as "black" has already been used. The word for "green" can also mean "yellow." George Hart On Oct 31, 2009, at 8:00 AM, JKirkpatrick wrote: > I'm curious as to what are the words for "black" and "dark" in > this typology? > The usual colors cropping up in such typologies are white, red, > yellow, and blue/green/black. > > JK > ============= > > On Behalf Of George Hart > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 8:04 AM > > > From ParipaTal 3, about the 3rd or 4th century BCE: > > Your wonder is such that you are counted through four kinds of > eons: zero, quarter, half, one, two three, four, five, six, > seven, eight, nine! Black one with red eyes! White one with > black eyes! Green one with golden eyes! Dark one with green > eyes! > > George Hart > > On Oct 30, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Dominic Goodall wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes > colour in >> each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na? >> >> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato > 'nuyuga.m >> tanuu.h >> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m > k.r.s.nataa.m >> gata.h >> >> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of > the >> Mahaabhaarata, e.g. >> >> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge > raktataa.m >> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam >> abhyaagata.h >> >> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references? >> >> Dominic Goodall From Peter.Bisschop at ED.AC.UK Sat Oct 31 19:13:06 2009 From: Peter.Bisschop at ED.AC.UK (Peter Bisschop) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 19:13:06 +0000 Subject: yugas and colours In-Reply-To: <8CA1900E-45FF-4842-83EA-25F4589F72D6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227087774.23782.602257112282969956.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 928 Lines: 33 It is found in the Vi.s.nudharma (edition R. Gruenendahl): 104.27 ("sukla), 104.35 (rakta), 104.38 (piita), 104.45 (k.r.s.na) Peter Bisschop Quoting Dominic Goodall : > Dear all, > > Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes colour in > each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na? > > BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato 'nuyuga.m tanuu.h > BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m k.r.s.nataa.m gata.h > > I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of the > Mahaabhaarata, e.g. > > 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge raktataa.m > 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam abhyaagata.h > > Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references? > > Dominic Goodall -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. From Harunaga.Isaacson at UNI-HAMBURG.DE Sat Oct 31 19:29:19 2009 From: Harunaga.Isaacson at UNI-HAMBURG.DE (Harunaga Isaacson) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 20:29:19 +0100 Subject: yugas and colours In-Reply-To: <20091031191306.fvn70z3hpcco0o04@www.staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <161227087776.23782.2334012425307442992.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1340 Lines: 54 And it is in the MBh, not only in passages excluded from the critical edition (such as that which DG quoted), but also in 3.148 ("sukla in vs. 16, rakta in 23, piita in 26, and k.r.s.na in 33). Harunaga Isaacson Peter Bisschop wrote: > It is found in the Vi.s.nudharma (edition R. Gruenendahl): > 104.27 ("sukla), 104.35 (rakta), 104.38 (piita), 104.45 (k.r.s.na) > > Peter Bisschop > > Quoting Dominic Goodall : > >> Dear all, >> >> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes colour in >> each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na? >> >> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato 'nuyuga.m tanuu.h >> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m k.r.s.nataa.m >> gata.h >> >> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of the >> Mahaabhaarata, e.g. >> >> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge raktataa.m >> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam >> abhyaagata.h >> >> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references? >> >> Dominic Goodall > > > -- Prof. Dr. Harunaga Isaacson Universit?t Hamburg Asien-Afrika-Institut Abteilung f?r Kultur und Geschichte Indiens und Tibets Alsterterrasse 1 D-20354 Hamburg Germany tel. +49 (0)40 42838-3382 Alternative email: harunagaisaacson at gmail.com From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Sat Oct 31 17:11:27 2009 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 22:41:27 +0530 Subject: yugas and colours In-Reply-To: <86E19A26-D5CE-4A89-A9F6-A04C1512BE34@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227087768.23782.12201289708399506916.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3065 Lines: 85 It is all right that the century belongs to the CE. Still?a southern?claim to the origin of the idea is not, perhaps, reduced by that. I checked the Yugapur??a (edMitchiner, AS,Calcutta1986 BI 312).but did not find any reference to the colour of the yugas. That means the absence of the idea?in the North till the 5th Cent.CE (YP so dated/Mitchiner). The extant Bh?gavata could not have been redacted in the North. Its flowery classical k?vya style was a dead thing in the North during the time when it is supposed to have been redacted from?a?lost older Bh?gavata. The South can make a strong claim. Best DB ________________________________ From: George Hart To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Sat, 31 October, 2009 9:23:40 PM Subject: Re: yugas and colours Of course it's CE, not BCE.? None of the Tamil works can be dated to BCE -- though we do have inscriptions from the first couple centuries BCE. The Tamil is paaz ena kaal ena paaku ena onRu ena pari.3-77 iraNTu ena muunRu ena naanku ena aintu ena pari.3-78 aaRu ena eezu ena eTTu ena toNTu ena pari.3-79 naalvakai uuzi eN naviRRum ciRappinai pari.3-80 ce kaN kaari karu kaN veLLai pari.3-81 pon kaN paccai pai kaN maaal pari.3-82 (Malten's transcription) "Black" is from kaari, ultimately from karu, the standard word for "black."? "Dark" is maal, which can mean "blackness" or "greatness," "great man," "Visnu."? "Dark one with green eyes" could also mean "Green-eyed Visnu!" -- which might make more sense, as "black" has already been used.? The word for "green" can also mean "yellow." George Hart On Oct 31, 2009, at 8:00 AM, JKirkpatrick wrote: > I'm curious as to what are the words for "black" and "dark" in > this typology? > The usual colors cropping up in such typologies are white, red, > yellow, and blue/green/black. > > JK > ============= > > On Behalf Of George Hart > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 8:04 AM > > > From ParipaTal 3, about the 3rd or 4th century BCE: > > Your wonder is such that you are counted through four kinds of > eons: zero, quarter, half, one, two three, four, five, six, > seven, eight, nine!? Black one with red eyes!? White one with > black eyes!? Green one with golden eyes!? Dark one with green > eyes! > > George Hart > > On Oct 30, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Dominic Goodall wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes > colour in >> each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na? >> >> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato > 'nuyuga.m >> tanuu.h >> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m > k.r.s.nataa.m >> gata.h >> >> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of > the >> Mahaabhaarata, e.g. >> >> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge > raktataa.m >> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam >> abhyaagata.h >> >> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references? >> >> Dominic Goodall Try the new Yahoo! India Homepage. Click here. http://in.yahoo.com/trynew From tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU Wed Sep 2 11:01:42 2009 From: tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU (tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 09 06:01:42 -0500 Subject: ayurveda etc In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087524.23782.15575754547443633282.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 333 Lines: 15 Dear Dom, 1. Thanks for the epilepsy info, you rascal. An Ayurvedic remedy for jet lag would really have been helpful. 2. Today I got an email from Cordelia saying she has become a bass player, with a photo of her and her electric bass. 3. Am I on IndComm duty this week? I thought it was last week. See you around, Gary. From tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU Wed Sep 2 11:08:57 2009 From: tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU (tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 09 06:08:57 -0500 Subject: pardon me Message-ID: <161227087527.23782.6569399931752814384.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 191 Lines: 10 Dear Indology List, I apologize for inadvertently sending a personal message to the list. Jet lag and unfamiliar software at the World Sanskrit Conference ganged up on me. --Gary Tubb. From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Sep 2 22:16:31 2009 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 09 18:16:31 -0400 Subject: Journals Message-ID: <161227087533.23782.3621178001559629569.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1466 Lines: 37 Mark, Are there any of these you have been unable to examine recent paper volumes of? If so, send me a list and I will see if any information is given in the journals themselves. Allen >>> Mark Allon 9/2/2009 5:35:28 PM >>> Dear List members, Further to a discussion I posted on the list way back in 2007, the Australian Research Council (ARC, our main funding body parallel to American NEH) is instigating a system of rankings for peer-reviewed journals. Leaving aside the problems associated with such a system, could someone please tell me whether the following journals (if still in print) are peer-reviewed and provide a link (if possible) to their editorial standards. The ARC is having difficulty obtaining this info via a web search: Buddhist Studies (Bukkyo Kenkyu) Bulletin of the Deccan College Research Institute Contributions to Asian Studies (Leiden) Harvard South Asia Journal (Harvard) The Indian Historical Review Journal of Indian History Journal of Sino-Indian Buddhist Studies Journal of the International College for Advanced Buddhist Studies (Tokyo) Journal of the Oriental Institute (Baroda) Nachrichten der Akademie der Wissenschaften in Gottingen, I. Philologisch-Historische Klasse Nagoya Studies in Indian Culture and Buddhism South Asia South Asian Studies Sri Lanka Journal of Buddhist Studies Regards Mark Dr Mark Allon Chair, Department of Indian Subcontinental Studies University of Sydney From mark.allon at USYD.EDU.AU Wed Sep 2 21:35:28 2009 From: mark.allon at USYD.EDU.AU (Mark Allon) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 09 07:35:28 +1000 Subject: Journals In-Reply-To: <20090826214104.GG4678@ubuntu> Message-ID: <161227087530.23782.4870218834974329152.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1209 Lines: 29 Dear List members, Further to a discussion I posted on the list way back in 2007, the Australian Research Council (ARC, our main funding body parallel to American NEH) is instigating a system of rankings for peer-reviewed journals. Leaving aside the problems associated with such a system, could someone please tell me whether the following journals (if still in print) are peer-reviewed and provide a link (if possible) to their editorial standards. The ARC is having difficulty obtaining this info via a web search: Buddhist Studies (Bukkyo Kenkyu) Bulletin of the Deccan College Research Institute Contributions to Asian Studies (Leiden) Harvard South Asia Journal (Harvard) The Indian Historical Review Journal of Indian History Journal of Sino-Indian Buddhist Studies Journal of the International College for Advanced Buddhist Studies (Tokyo) Journal of the Oriental Institute (Baroda) Nachrichten der Akademie der Wissenschaften in Gottingen, I. Philologisch-Historische Klasse Nagoya Studies in Indian Culture and Buddhism South Asia South Asian Studies Sri Lanka Journal of Buddhist Studies Regards Mark Dr Mark Allon Chair, Department of Indian Subcontinental Studies University of Sydney From mark.allon at USYD.EDU.AU Wed Sep 2 22:58:49 2009 From: mark.allon at USYD.EDU.AU (Mark Allon) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 09 08:58:49 +1000 Subject: Journals In-Reply-To: <20090902T181631Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227087536.23782.2655066437954695366.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2102 Lines: 68 Allen, Thanks for your kind offer. The journals that our library does not have and which I don't have paper copies of are the following: Bulletin of the Deccan College Research Institute Contributions to Asian Studies (Leiden) Harvard South Asia Journal (Harvard) Journal of Sino-Indian Buddhist Studies Journal of the Oriental Institute (Baroda) South Asian Studies Sri Lanka Journal of Buddhist Studies Regards Mark -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Allen W Thrasher Sent: Thursday, 3 September 2009 8:17 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Journals Mark, Are there any of these you have been unable to examine recent paper volumes of? If so, send me a list and I will see if any information is given in the journals themselves. Allen >>> Mark Allon 9/2/2009 5:35:28 PM >>> Dear List members, Further to a discussion I posted on the list way back in 2007, the Australian Research Council (ARC, our main funding body parallel to American NEH) is instigating a system of rankings for peer-reviewed journals. Leaving aside the problems associated with such a system, could someone please tell me whether the following journals (if still in print) are peer-reviewed and provide a link (if possible) to their editorial standards. The ARC is having difficulty obtaining this info via a web search: Buddhist Studies (Bukkyo Kenkyu) Bulletin of the Deccan College Research Institute Contributions to Asian Studies (Leiden) Harvard South Asia Journal (Harvard) The Indian Historical Review Journal of Indian History Journal of Sino-Indian Buddhist Studies Journal of the International College for Advanced Buddhist Studies (Tokyo) Journal of the Oriental Institute (Baroda) Nachrichten der Akademie der Wissenschaften in Gottingen, I. Philologisch-Historische Klasse Nagoya Studies in Indian Culture and Buddhism South Asia South Asian Studies Sri Lanka Journal of Buddhist Studies Regards Mark Dr Mark Allon Chair, Department of Indian Subcontinental Studies University of Sydney From athr at LOC.GOV Thu Sep 3 16:24:17 2009 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 09 12:24:17 -0400 Subject: Journals Message-ID: <161227087539.23782.7842892748294600869.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2243 Lines: 76 Mark, I will page the latest vol. of each of these after lunch. Allen >>> Mark Allon 9/2/2009 6:58:49 PM >>> Allen, Thanks for your kind offer. The journals that our library does not have and which I don't have paper copies of are the following: Bulletin of the Deccan College Research Institute Contributions to Asian Studies (Leiden) Harvard South Asia Journal (Harvard) Journal of Sino-Indian Buddhist Studies Journal of the Oriental Institute (Baroda) South Asian Studies Sri Lanka Journal of Buddhist Studies Regards Mark -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Allen W Thrasher Sent: Thursday, 3 September 2009 8:17 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Journals Mark, Are there any of these you have been unable to examine recent paper volumes of? If so, send me a list and I will see if any information is given in the journals themselves. Allen >>> Mark Allon 9/2/2009 5:35:28 PM >>> Dear List members, Further to a discussion I posted on the list way back in 2007, the Australian Research Council (ARC, our main funding body parallel to American NEH) is instigating a system of rankings for peer-reviewed journals. Leaving aside the problems associated with such a system, could someone please tell me whether the following journals (if still in print) are peer-reviewed and provide a link (if possible) to their editorial standards. The ARC is having difficulty obtaining this info via a web search: Buddhist Studies (Bukkyo Kenkyu) Bulletin of the Deccan College Research Institute Contributions to Asian Studies (Leiden) Harvard South Asia Journal (Harvard) The Indian Historical Review Journal of Indian History Journal of Sino-Indian Buddhist Studies Journal of the International College for Advanced Buddhist Studies (Tokyo) Journal of the Oriental Institute (Baroda) Nachrichten der Akademie der Wissenschaften in Gottingen, I. Philologisch-Historische Klasse Nagoya Studies in Indian Culture and Buddhism South Asia South Asian Studies Sri Lanka Journal of Buddhist Studies Regards Mark Dr Mark Allon Chair, Department of Indian Subcontinental Studies University of Sydney From james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM Fri Sep 4 01:35:10 2009 From: james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM (James Hartzell) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 09 03:35:10 +0200 Subject: Online Sanskrit, first-year Message-ID: <161227087542.23782.17081049559668944139.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1037 Lines: 28 Colleagues During work at the University of Manitoba (Winnipeg, Canada) this past year, I began developing material for an online first year Sanskrit course with the Distance and Online Education Division. We plan to run the course beginning in May 2010. It will be a full six credit (two semester) course, covering the material needed for 1st year Sanskrit credit. Arrangements may be made with the University of Manitoba and the student's home institution for credit transfer (usually by a simple letter of permission from the home institution). Links to the course flyers and further information may be found at http://umanitoba.ca/extended/distance/media/pdfs/09/sanskrit_apr09.pdf http://umanitoba.ca/extended/distance/media/pdfs/09/sanskrit_2_apr09.pdf Please distribute to all interested parties. The likelihood of the course running will be increased with increased enrollment. My best regards to colleagues at Kyoto. We've been busy with a move to Italy, so unable to attend. Cheers James Hartzell Rovereto, Italy From at8u at VIRGINIA.EDU Fri Sep 4 12:58:17 2009 From: at8u at VIRGINIA.EDU (Alberto Todeschini) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 09 08:58:17 -0400 Subject: Online Sanskrit, first-year In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087548.23782.16066403924949213910.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1799 Lines: 55 Dear James, I've just seen your post to the Indology list and I wonder if I may be so bold as to inquire about Rovereto. I imagine that you meant the Rovereto that is about 20Km from Trento. My name is Alberto Todeschini and I'm finishing a PhD in Indian Buddhism at the University of Virginia. I'll spend the next few months in Lausanne and Vienna. I'm actually from Trento and I'll be there to see my parents during the second half of this month. Anyway, I was just curious to know about the connection between Rovereto and Sanskrit. I know that occasionally Sanskrit introductions have been taught at the university of Trento, but I don't know by whom. Best, Alberto Todeschini Hartzell wrote: > Colleagues > > During work at the University of Manitoba (Winnipeg, Canada) this past year, > I began developing material for an online first year Sanskrit course with > the Distance and Online Education Division. > > We plan to run the course beginning in May 2010. It will be a full six > credit (two semester) course, covering the material needed for 1st year > Sanskrit credit. Arrangements may be made with the University of Manitoba > and the student's home institution for credit transfer (usually by a simple > letter of permission from the home institution). Links to the course flyers > and further information may be found at > > http://umanitoba.ca/extended/distance/media/pdfs/09/sanskrit_apr09.pdf > http://umanitoba.ca/extended/distance/media/pdfs/09/sanskrit_2_apr09.pdf > > Please distribute to all interested parties. The likelihood of the course > running will be increased with increased enrollment. > > My best regards to colleagues at Kyoto. We've been busy with a move to > Italy, so unable to attend. > > Cheers > James Hartzell > Rovereto, Italy > From at8u at VIRGINIA.EDU Fri Sep 4 12:59:06 2009 From: at8u at VIRGINIA.EDU (Alberto Todeschini) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 09 08:59:06 -0400 Subject: Online Sanskrit, first-year In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087552.23782.3839743645219135761.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 99 Lines: 6 Apologies for the private message sent to the list. I guess we never learn. Alberto Todeschini From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Fri Sep 4 12:05:02 2009 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 09 14:05:02 +0200 Subject: GRETIL update #355 Message-ID: <161227087545.23782.3409461895581394484.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 997 Lines: 37 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Amrtakara: Catuhstavasamasartha Jayatirtha: Nyayasudha, 1,1 (revised) Jayatirtha: Nyayasudha, 1,2 Jayatirtha: Nyayasudha, 1,3 Vasubandhu: Madhyantavibhagakarikabhasya __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From karin.preisendanz at UNIVIE.AC.AT Fri Sep 4 14:10:46 2009 From: karin.preisendanz at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Karin.Preisendanz) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 09 16:10:46 +0200 Subject: post doc position Tibetan and Buddhist Studies, Vienna University In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087554.23782.13019219497017871885.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2502 Lines: 72 Dear colleagues, Please see the advertisement attached below. I would be grateful if you would post it in your Department and bring it to the attention of suitable candidates. With best regards, Karin Preisendanz ----------- An der Universitat Wien ist ab 01.10.2009 die Position einer/eines Wissenschaftlichen Mitarbeiters/in ("post doc") am Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde bis 28.02.2010 zu besetzen. Kennzahl der Ausschreibung: 621 Am Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde der Philologisch-Kulturwissenschaftl. Fakultat der Universitat Wien kann eine Ersatzkraftstelle mit einer Assistentin/einem Assistenten f?r die Zeit vom 1.10.2009 bis 28.2.2010 besetzt werden. Dauer der Befristung: 5 Monat/e Besch?ftigungsausma?: 40 Stunden/Woche. Ihre Aufgaben: Der Aufgabenbereich umfasst neben der Unterst?tzung der Professur im Bereich Tibetologie und Buddhismuskunde in Lehre und Forschung die Beteiligung an der Lehr-, Forschungs-und Institutsverwaltung sowie selbst?ndige Lehre und Forschung. Ihr Profil: Abgeschlossenes Doktorat oder eine dem Doktorat gleichzuwertende wissenschaftliche Bef?higung im Fach Buddhismuskunde, Tibetologie oder einem vergleichbaren Fach mit einem Schwerpunkt auf Philosophie-, Religions- oder Literaturgeschichte; Kenntnisse und Erfahrung in Lehre, Forschung und Verwaltung. Teamf?higkeit, didaktische Qualifikationen und gute fachspezifische EDV-Kenntnisse sowie gute Deutschkenntnisse werden vorausgesetzt. Sehr gute Sanskrit- und Tibetischkenntnisse beim Verstehen von Texten sind Bedingung. Ihre Bewerbung: Wir freuen uns auf Ihre aussagekr?ftige Bewerbung mit Motivationsschreiben unter der Kennzahl 621, welche Sie bis zum 20.09.2009 bevorzugt ?ber unser Job Center (http://jobcenter.univie.ac.at/) an uns ?bermitteln. F?r n?here Ausk?nfte ?ber die ausgeschriebene Position wenden Sie sich bitte an B?ckle, Alexandra +43-1-4277-43501. Die Universitat Wien strebt eine Erh?hung des Frauenanteils insbesondere in Leitungsfunktionen und beim Wissenschaftlichen Personal an und fordert deshalb qualifizierte Frauen ausdr?cklich zur Bewerbung auf. Frauen werden bei gleicher Qualifikation vorrangig aufgenommen. DLE Personalwesen und Frauenforderung der Universitat Wien, Dr.-Karl-Lueger-Ring 1, 1010 Wien Kennzahl der Ausschreibung: 621 Email: jobcenter at univie.ac.at -- Karin Preisendanz Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Wien ?sterreich From indologi at GWDG.DE Sat Sep 5 06:57:01 2009 From: indologi at GWDG.DE (Indologie, Seminar fuer) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 09 08:57:01 +0200 Subject: Professor in ?Indian Religions? (W2), Goettingen (Germany) Message-ID: <161227087557.23782.17461605873924773981.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3713 Lines: 78 Dear list members, the Georg-August-University G?ttingen (Germany) is establishing the Centre for Modern Indian Studies (CeMIS) and invites applications for a position of a professor (salary scale W2) in "Indian Religions". The position is available from 1st October 2009. Applications are requested by September 19th, 2009. You'll find complete information below. Kindly forward this mail to suitable candidates. Best regards, Thomas Oberlies -- Prof. Dr. Thomas Oberlies Seminar f?r Indologie und Tibetologie Waldweg 26 D-37073 G?ttingen Tel.: +49-551-39 13301 ----------------------------------------------- The Georg-August-University G?ttingen (Germany) is establishing the Centre for Modern Indian Studies (CeMIS) and invites applications for a position of a - professor in ?Indian Religions? (salary scale W2) ? The CeMIS (www.uni-goettingen.de/cemis) is a new founded institution funded by the Land Niedersachsen (State of Lower Saxony) to foster research and teaching on contemporary India. The Centre?s thematic focus is on economic and political development of modern India and its relation to ethnic, religious and linguistic diversity as well as to social inequalities and political conflicts. Three professorships are being established at present. They are affiliated to the Faculty of Economics and to the Faculty of Philosophy. They will be complemented by two additional social science professorships in the near future and shall cooperate in the framework of an interdisciplinary Centre affiliated to several faculties. The position is available from 1st October 2009. Applications are invited from candidates working on religions in contemporary India from a religious studies perspective. This includes particularly candidates who work on Hindu-Muslim or Hindu-Christian relations and their implications for social conflict and political integration in the modern era. Candidates should work with primary materials in an Indian language. Candidates must have an interest in interdisciplinary cooperation with other social science professors in the newly created Centre. Teaching responsibilities will particularly include contributions to, and further development of, a newly created Bachelor in Modern Indian Studies as well as a Master in Modern Indian Development Studies. Participation in other teaching programmes in the Faculty of Philosophy to which the professorship is affiliated, is encouraged and contribution to PhD training within the G?ttingen Graduate School of Humanities is welcomed. Applications, including pertinent documentation (CV, list of publications, teaching and research track records etc.) are requested by September 19th, 2009 and should be sent to the Dekanin der Philosophischen Fakult?t der Georg-August-Universit?t G?ttingen, Humboldtallee, D-37073 G?ttingen, Germany, email: dekanin at phil.uni-goettingen.de. A previously published application deadline for this position is thereby extended. For further information, please contact vice-president Prof. Casper-Hehne, email: hiltraud.casper-hehne at zvw.uni-goettingen.de. Preconditions for appointment are laid down in ? 25 of the Higher Education Law of Lower Saxony of 26.02.2007 (Official Law Gazette of Lower Saxony, Nds. GVBl. 5/2007 p. 69). As a Public Law Foundation, the University of G?ttingen holds the right of appointment. Further details will be explained on inquiry. We explicitly welcome applications from abroad. Under certain circumstances part-time employment is possible. Disabled persons with corresponding aptitude for the position will be favoured. The University strives to increase its proportion of female staff and specifically encourages qualified women to apply. From pankajaindia at GMAIL.COM Sat Sep 5 15:21:00 2009 From: pankajaindia at GMAIL.COM (Pankaj Jain) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 09 16:21:00 +0100 Subject: Online Sanskrit, first-year Message-ID: <161227087559.23782.1453047487720860936.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 660 Lines: 22 I am teaching first year Sanskrit as an online and as a on-campus course currently at NC State University in Raleigh. Details at: http://delta.ncsu.edu/apps/coursedetail/index.php?id=FL:295::601:FALL:2009 Next year, I will be offering second year Sanskrit also as an online and as an on-campus course. Regards, Pankaj ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dr. Pankaj Jain ???? ??? Teaching Assistant Professor 204 Withers Hall, (919) 515 9307 Department of Foreign Languages and Literatures Department of Philosophy and Religious Studies Science, Technology & Society Program North Carolina State University ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Tue Sep 8 10:32:42 2009 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 09 05:32:42 -0500 Subject: Collective Unconscious In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087564.23782.2429910123317657295.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 910 Lines: 43 William Waldron's book on aalayavij?aana has some things to say about this and very fully documents earlier studies of this concept in yogaacaara Buddhism. If I recall correctly (it's been a really long time), Jeff Masson's not very well received book The Oceanic Feeling proposes some analogies. ---- Original message ---- >Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:12:15 +0000 >From: Harsha Dehejia >Subject: Collective Unconscious >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > >Friends: > > > >Individual sub-conscious and collective unconscious are terms in Modern European Psychology. > > > >Are there Indian (Hindu/Buddhist) equivalents for this? > > > >Regards. > > > >Harsha V. Dehejia > >Ottawa, ON., Canada. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Sep 8 10:12:15 2009 From: harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM (Harsha Dehejia) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 09 10:12:15 +0000 Subject: Collective Unconscious Message-ID: <161227087562.23782.4465772852125480025.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 227 Lines: 22 Friends: Individual sub-conscious and collective unconscious are terms in Modern European Psychology. Are there Indian (Hindu/Buddhist) equivalents for this? Regards. Harsha V. Dehejia Ottawa, ON., Canada. From e.ciurtin at GMAIL.COM Tue Sep 8 12:00:07 2009 From: e.ciurtin at GMAIL.COM (Eugen Ciurtin) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 09 15:00:07 +0300 Subject: Collective Unconscious In-Reply-To: <20090908053242.CCD89264@m4500-02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227087566.23782.10566755329448263.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2587 Lines: 87 Jean Filliozat discussed such parallelisms (having also a medical training) already in the 1940s. See e.g. "L?inconscient dans la psychologie indienne", *Proceedings of the Xth International Congress of Philosophy*, Amsterdam, 1948, t. 1, 267-269 = 1974: 167-169; "The psychological discoveries of Buddhism", *University of Ceylon Review* 13 (1955), nos. 2-3, 69-82 = 1974: 143-156, and also some other contributions from his kleine Schriften: his teaching reports in *Annuaire du Coll?ge de France* during the 1960-1970s); *Laghu-prabandh?**?. Choix d?articles d?indologie*, Leiden: E.J. Brill, 1974, and especially *Religion Philosophy Yoga: a selection of articles*, translated by Maurice Shukla,* *Delhi: MLBD, 1991; Colette CAILLAT, Pierre-Sylvain FILLIOZAT, "Jean Filliozat (1906-1982)", *JA* 271 (1983): 1-4, and "Bibliographie des travaux de Jean Filliozat", 5-24. More recently, and in a somewhat different vein, could be of much help the synthesis of Fran?ois C HENET, "*Bh?van?* et cr?ativit? de la conscience", *Numen* 34 (1987), no. 1, 45-96. If you don't have the first papers, I can send you a scan. with kind regards E. Ciurtin Indology 2009/9/8 > William Waldron's book on aalayavij?aana has some things to say about this > and very fully documents earlier studies of this concept in yogaacaara > Buddhism. > > If I recall correctly (it's been a really long time), Jeff Masson's not > very well > received book The Oceanic Feeling proposes some analogies. > > ---- Original message ---- > >Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:12:15 +0000 > >From: Harsha Dehejia > >Subject: Collective Unconscious > >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > > >Friends: > > > > > > > >Individual sub-conscious and collective unconscious are terms in Modern > European Psychology. > > > > > > > >Are there Indian (Hindu/Buddhist) equivalents for this? > > > > > > > >Regards. > > > > > > > >Harsha V. Dehejia > > > >Ottawa, ON., Canada. > > Matthew T. Kapstein > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies > The University of Chicago Divinity School > > Directeur d'?tudes > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > -- Dr E. Ciurtin Secretary of the Romanian Association for the History of Religions www.rahr.ro Publications Officer of the European Association for the Study of Religions www.easr.eu Lecturer & Secretary of the Scientific Council Institute for the History of Religions, Romanian Academy Calea 13 Septembrie no. 13 sect. 5, Bucharest 050711 Phone: 00 40 733 951 953 www.ihr-acad.ro From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Thu Sep 10 08:03:27 2009 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 09 10:03:27 +0200 Subject: Publication announcement: Collection Indo logie n=?UTF-8?Q?=C2=B0109,?= IFP / EFEO (memorial volume for T .V. Gopal Iyer) Message-ID: <161227087569.23782.8085703866770397685.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3643 Lines: 116 Dear Indology List members, Please find below information concerning a new publication, URL: ******************* Between Preservation and Recreation: Tamil Traditions of Commentary. Proceedings of a Workshop in Honour of T.V. Gopal Iyer [22/01/1926 -- 01/04/2007] Edited by Eva Wilden, Collection Indologie n?109, IFP / EFEO, 2009, xiv, 319 p. Language: English (except 2 articles in Tamil). 600 Rs (26 ?) ISBN (IFP): 978-81-8470-173-9. ISBN (EFEO): 978-2-85539-674-3 The seed from which this book germinated was a workshop entitled ?Between Preservation and Recreation: Tamil Traditions of Commentary in Pursuit of the Ca?kam Era?, held in the Pondicherry Centre of the EFEO in July 2006 in honour of the late and much lamented Pandit T.V. Gopal Iyer. A presentation of the life and work of T.V. Gopal Iyer, along with his bibliography, is followed by essays. After a general introduction by Eva Wilden, Thomas Lehmann gives a survey of the types of commentary found in Tamil. Jean-Luc Chevillard addresses the interaction between scholastic Sanskrit and Tamil. G. Vijayavenugopal, Eva Wilden and A. Dhamodharan deal with the genre of grammatical and poetological commentaries. Martine Gestin explores the possibilities of retrieving social and anthropological information from a poetological commentary. T.V. Gopal Iyer (?2007), T.S. Gangadharan and T. Rajeswari write about literary commentaries. R. Varadadesikan introduces the genre of Vaishnava theological exegesis and, finally, Sascha Ebeling characterises the ?neo-commentaries? of the 19th century. Keywords: Tamil literature, exegesis, philology ******************** Order form available from: ******************* TABLE OF CONTENTS *Preface* E. WILDEN: Remembering T.V. GOPAL IYER ix S. EBELING: The Death of a Discipline: In memoriam T.V. Gopal Iyer xi *Biography of T.V.G.* T.V. GOPAL IYER: tami? pa?utta u??am [in Tamil] 1 R. ILAKKUVAN: A Life-time for the Cause of Tamil 13 R. ILAKKUVAN: Bibliography of T.V. GOPAL IYER 23 C.V. of T.V. GOPAL IYER 35 *Introduction* E. WILDEN: Between Preservation and Recreation -- Tamil Traditions of commentary 37 *General outlines* T. LEHMANN: A Survey of Classical Tamil Commentary Literature 55 J.-L. CHEVILLARD: The Meta-grammatical Vocabulary inside the Lists of 32 tantrayuktis and Its Adaptation to Tamil -- Towards a Sanskrit-Tamil Dictionary 71 *On Grammar and Poetics* G. VIJAYAVENUGOPAL: Tolk?ppiyam -- A Treatise on the Semiotics of Ancient Tamil Poetry 133 E. WILDEN: Canonisation of Classical Tamil Texts in the Mirror of the Poetological Commentaries 145 A. DHAMODHARAN: ka?aviyal uraiyi? na?ai [in Tamil] 167 M. GESTIN: A Brilliant Gloss for Tamil Social History: Pre-marital Courtship and Marriage at the Time of Nakk?rar 183 *On Poetry* T.V. GOPAL IYER: Our Debt of Gratitude to the Commentators 227 T.S. GANGADHARAN: The Commentator?s Interpretation Illumines Our Illusive Attempt to Give a Verbatim Meaning -- Parim?la?akar?s Commentary on the Ku?a? 237 T. RAJESWARI: P?laikkali Verses and Their Authors 255 *On Theology* R. VARADA DESIKAN: The Influence of Society, Religion and Politics on the Vai??ava Ma?ippirav??am Commentaries between the 11th and 15th c. A.D. 269 *On the Revival of the 19th century* S. EBELING: Tamil or ?Incomprehensible Scribble?? The Tamil Philological Commentary (urai) in the 19th Century 281 *Notes on the Authors* 313 *French R?sum?s* 317 From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Thu Sep 10 15:34:07 2009 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 09 17:34:07 +0200 Subject: GRETIL update #356 Message-ID: <161227087571.23782.16052085077477331444.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1031 Lines: 39 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Gopatha-Brahmana (revised) Jitari: Hetutattvopadesa [alternative version] Kambalapada: Navasloki [on Astasahasrika Prajnaparamita] Mahasudarsanavadana (revised) Manjusrimulakalpa (corrections) __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Sat Sep 12 00:22:33 2009 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 09 01:22:33 +0100 Subject: Hindu Studies Position at the University of Michigan Message-ID: <161227087574.23782.6148103222956706756.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1953 Lines: 36 Please forward this information to all those who may be interested. Madhav Deshpande UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN, Department of Asian Languages and Cultures invites applications for a tenure-track position in HINDU STUDIES, beginning September 2010. This university-year appointment is possible at any rank. Ph.D. is required prior to appointment. Applicants from a wide variety of periods and fields within Hindu Studies will be considered. All applicants should possess a high level of proficiency in one or more South Asian languages. The successful candidate is expected to teach a range of courses in Hindu Studies from introductory undergraduate lecture courses through graduate seminars; to supervise doctoral dissertations; and to participate actively in the programs of the department as well as in area studies initiatives within a larger university community that encourages interdisciplinary efforts. Evidence of excellent teaching and research abilities is essential. Please submit a letter of application, CV, statement of teaching philosophy and experience, evidence of teaching excellence (if any), and a statement of current and future research plans. Junior candidates may submit a placement dossier with representative publications or writing sample and at least three letters of recommendation. Senior candidates should send the names of suggested reviewers. Please send applications to Hindu Studies Search, Department of Asian Languages and Cultures, 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608 (email chair?s assistant: kjmunson at umich.edu). To be assured consideration, applications must be received by October 15, 2009. The University of Michigan is an Equal Opportunity/ Affirmative Action Employer. Women and minorities are encouraged to apply. The University is supportive of the needs of dual career couples. All applications will be acknowledged. From rmanring at INDIANA.EDU Mon Sep 14 13:34:54 2009 From: rmanring at INDIANA.EDU (Manring, Rebecca) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 09 09:34:54 -0400 Subject: Subhadra Kumar Sen, July 3, 1939- September 5, 2009 Message-ID: <161227087577.23782.18007739520435146811.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6776 Lines: 74 Subhadra Kumar Sen, July 3, 1939- September 5, 2009 It is my sad duty to report that Subhadra Kumar Sen, retired Khaira Professor of Phonetics and Linguistics at Calcutta University, died in Kolkata on Saturday, September 5. Professor Sen graduated from Calcutta University in 1961 and earned his PhD in 1973 from the same institution under the supervision of Prof Suniti Kumar Chatterji. His doctoral dissertation was entitled "Proto New Indo-Aryan that is Avahattha." He married Krishna in 1967. Their daughter Sunritavari (Nupur) Sen was born in 1970, and their son Sunanda Kumar (Som) Sen, in 1976. Both are continuing the family tradition of academic careers. His service to the profession included serving as Treasurer of the Asiatic Society in Kolkata; Vice-President, Sahitya Parisad; President, International School of Dravidian Linguistics, Executive Committee Member, Paschim Banga Bangla Academy, Honorary Member, Indian Institute of Technology, Kharagpur, Honorary Secretary, Federation Hall. If I may be permitted personal comments...I first met Professor Sen in 1992 while I was trying to find some manuscripts I needed for my dissertation research, that I learned were in Sukumar Sen's private manuscript collection. My own scholarly career began just too late for me to have met Sukumar Sen himself, who had died only a few years prior to my visit, but armed with letters of introduction from my University of Washington gurus Carol and Richard Salomon, and from Dr. Uma Das Gupta, then Eastern Regional Director of the U.S.Educational Foundation in India (the Fulbright Foundation), under whose auspices I was conducting my research, I went to North Kolkata to meet his son, Professor Subhadra Kumar Sen. Like his father, this Professor Sen held the Khaira Professorship of Indian Linguistics and Phonetics at Calcutta University and shared all of his father=s other interests as well (including an abiding passion for early to mid twentieth century American detective fiction). After an initial meeting, Professor Sen invited me to lunch with his family in the old home in Barddhaman, which had remained closed since his father's death a few years previously. We spent much of that visit hauling stacks of manuscripts out of the library and into a room with better light, where we could peruse them. "We" here means ABahadur,@ the caretaker of the house; Professor Sen; and his son and daughter, both then university students following the family academic tradition. Each stack was thickly coated with dust, cobwebs, crumbled bits of paper, and the like, and very few of the materials were labeled. It was heartbreaking to think of all the time and effort, and thought, that Sukumar Sen had originally put into that library, as we looked at these mountains and mountains of deteriorating and apparently unindexed materials. We went through every piece we could find, and since they were unlabeled, we had to try to guess the titles of the works by skimming a few folios. At the very least we could usually tell what sort of work a manuscript was. But even though we were unable to locate the pieces I had hoped to find, the opportunity to see exactly what was in the collection, to find intricately carved wooden book covers, and block-print-illustrated manuscripts, and sketches drawn in margins by scribes working years ago, made for a very exciting day. Later, back in Kolkata, Subhadra Kumar Sen and I began to talk about what might be done to save his father=s collection from complete oblivion. We wanted first of all (lacking his father=s own handlist) to have some sort of record of what was contained therein, and secondly, we wanted other scholars to be able to have access, with the family's permission, to any of the materials they might need for their own research. For many reasons, the Sen project required eight years to complete. Although at times annoying, this proved a blessing, as we all became close friends over the course of my many visits during that time. In 1998 I brought a team of Indiana colleagues to Kolkata, and Prof. Sen generously gave us a great deal of his time, showing us the Ashutosh Museum at Calcutta University, as well as classroom buildings and the beautiful murals in the halls of the Ashutosh building where he had his office. It was largely out of respect for this generation=s Professor Sen that I came to want to see his father=s place in academic history firmly secured with the microfilming of the manuscript collection. As will be apparent from the incomplete bibliography below, SK Sen was an accomplished scholar in his own right, a very active member of the Kolkata academic community and of the smaller group of Indo-European scholars throughout the world. My last visit with the family was on what I now realize was Prof. Sen's (I would never dare to address him any other way, though I thought of him as a favourite uncle) 70th birthday. I met his first grandchild, Anasmita, clearly the pride and joy of her grandparents and the entire family. As his name indicates, Subhadra Kumar Sen was both a scholar and a gentleman, and those who knew him will miss him very much. Professor Sen's publications include Monographs A Gothic Primer. Calcutta: Eastern Publishers, 1979. Muhammad Shahidullah. New Delhi: Sahitya Akademi, 1998. Old Bengali Syntax. Thiruvananthapuram: International School of Dravidian Linguistics, 2007. Proto New Indo-Aryan. Calcutta: Eastern Publishers, 1973 and reissued by Shree Balaram Prakasani, 2007. (with Taracarana Sikadara) Kasiramadasa's Bhadrarjuna: 1852 Khrishtabde prakasita nataka. Kolkata: Eastern Publishers, 1966. (with Irach J.S. Taraporewala) Hanjamana. Calcutta: Calcutta University, 1989. Articles "Formation of Personal Names in Indo-European." International Journal of Dravidian Linguistics 34.2(2005):153-158. "Old Persian Notes." Bulletin of the Deccan College Research Institute 51-52(1991-1992):357-359. "On *pius." General Linguistics 41.1(2001):265. "Suniti Kumar Chatterji's Contribution to Linguistics." Asian Studies (Calcutta) 8.1(1990):13-23. "There is a similar reason..." Indo-Iranica 41.1-4(1988):91-96. "Unrequited Love: East and West." Journal of Indo-European Studies 25.4(1997):417. "Word Ordering in the Astadhyahi." Journal of Indo-European Studies 27.1-2(1999):101-103. "Wulfila and Indo-European Literary Tradition. Journal of the Asiatic Society (Calcutta) 27.4(1985):121-124. (with E.P. Hamp, W.P. Lehman, M. Mayrhofer, J. Puhvel and W. Winter) "Proto-Indo-European: A multiangular view. Journal of Indo-European Studies 22.1-2(1994):67-89. Rebecca J. Manring Associate Professor India Studies and Religious Studies Indiana University-Bloomington From vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET Mon Sep 14 17:06:19 2009 From: vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 09 13:06:19 -0400 Subject: GRETIL update #357 Message-ID: <161227087585.23782.16015709079505896582.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 370 Lines: 15 The links to Asanga: Trisatikayah Prajnaparamitayah Karikasaptatih do not appear to be working. One gets a "404 File not found", whether looking for the html, csx or ree version. I'm sure this is just a simple oversight that can be easily remedied. Thank you wonderful work. Dan Lusthaus From rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Mon Sep 14 21:07:03 2009 From: rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Richard Salomon) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 09 14:07:03 -0700 Subject: Festschrift? Message-ID: <161227087588.23782.4567726921281821626.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 406 Lines: 16 Dear Petteri, I seem to remember receiving a message from you some time ago about a proposed Festschrift for Klaus Karttunen; but I can't find any record of it. Is my memory correct, or just fantasy? In any case, if there is such a project, and if it is not too late to submit something, I do have a short article which would be appropriate for it. Please let me know about this, Thanks Richard From rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Mon Sep 14 21:08:54 2009 From: rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Richard Salomon) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 09 14:08:54 -0700 Subject: Festschrift? Message-ID: <161227087591.23782.4327505625811294448.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 697 Lines: 28 Sorry, please ignore this message -- it was supposed to be personal. R. Salomon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Salomon" To: Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:07 PM Subject: Festschrift? > Dear Petteri, > > I seem to remember receiving a message from you some time ago about a > proposed Festschrift for Klaus Karttunen; but I can't find any record of > it. Is my memory correct, or just fantasy? > > In any case, if there is such a project, and if it is not too late to > submit something, I do have a short article which would be appropriate for > it. Please let me know about this, > > Thanks > > Richard > From jim at KHECARI.COM Mon Sep 14 15:33:20 2009 From: jim at KHECARI.COM (james mallinson) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 09 16:33:20 +0100 Subject: Sri Lankan Ayurveda In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087579.23782.15959303924926013349.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1826 Lines: 57 Dear Indology List members, After reading Dominik's fine essay I followed up his reference to Vaidya Bhagwan Dash's Fundamentals of Ayurvedic Medicine (Delhi: Bansal and Co. 1980), which has a chapter (pp.141-157) entitled "Cannabis in Ancient Medical Texts". It includes a list of 51 formulations containing cannabis which have been described in a dozen ayurvedic works. One of the 11 varieties of modaka ("formulations used in round bollus form") is madana modaka (p.155). Unfortunately Dash does not say which texts contain details of which formulations. Yours, with best wishes, Jim Mallinson On 17 Aug 2009, at 23:56, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > No, I'm afraid I haven't heard of Modana modaka. Wouldn't that just > be a sweet? What is the evidence for it being cannabis or an > opiate? (Very different substances?) Are the effects described, > especially heightened appetite? Is the plant described? Are the > distinct male and female plants of cannabis distinguished (as in the > Anandakanda, for instance). > > -- > Dr Dominik Wujastyk > International Institute of Asian Studies > http://iias.nl > > long term email address: wujastyk at gmail.com > > > > > On Sun, 16 Aug 2009, Osto, Douglas wrote: > >> Thank you and others for your references to Sri Lankan Ayurveda. In >> reference to your above mentioned article, I have come across a >> herbal medicine mentioned in Sri Lankan Ayurveda called "Modana >> Modaka". Have you heard of this? I suspected that it might be >> either cannabis or some opiate. >> >> d.o. >> >> Dr. Douglas Osto >> Religious Studies and Philosophy Programmes >> School of History, Philosophy and Classics >> Massey University >> Private Bag 11 222 >> Palmerston North >> New Zealand >> ph: +64 6 356 9099 ex. 7608 >> http://www.douglasosto.com > From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Mon Sep 14 16:44:53 2009 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 09 18:44:53 +0200 Subject: GRETIL update #357 Message-ID: <161227087582.23782.17413381712915763134.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 788 Lines: 28 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Asanga: Trisatikayah Prajnaparamitayah Karikasaptatih Dasabalasutra 1-4 Vidyakarasanti: Tarkasopana __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Tue Sep 15 07:06:40 2009 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 09 09:06:40 +0200 Subject: AW: GRETIL update #357 Message-ID: <161227087593.23782.261379501294675525.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 434 Lines: 24 ________________________________ Von: Indology im Auftrag von Dan Lusthaus Gesendet: Mo 14.09.2009 19:06 An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Betreff: Re: GRETIL update #357 The links to Asanga: Trisatikayah Prajnaparamitayah Karikasaptatih do not appear to be working. ___________________________________ Now they do. Thanks for the hint. R. Gr?nendahl From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM Fri Sep 18 20:12:39 2009 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 09 21:12:39 +0100 Subject: Contact sought Message-ID: <161227087596.23782.9638278104256552987.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 185 Lines: 12 Dear friends, Does anybody have an email contact for Dr Akira Shimada, who has worked on the history of the Amaravati Stupa. Replies off-list please. Many thanks, Stephen Hodge From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM Sat Sep 19 16:17:33 2009 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 09 17:17:33 +0100 Subject: Contact sought Message-ID: <161227087599.23782.8045905224782705754.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 105 Lines: 7 Thank you everybody who responded ~ I now have Dr Shimada's contact details in full. Stephen Hodge From jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM Mon Sep 21 14:01:55 2009 From: jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM (girish jha) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 09 07:01:55 -0700 Subject: Happy Navaratra-Durga Puja Message-ID: <161227087601.23782.16949697923147636567.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 196 Lines: 15 Dear Indologists, ? ?Sattvodrekakaram? sadyao jn?navijn?navardhanam?. Navar?tram idam? bh?y?t ?r?devyanukampay?. Regards, Sincerely GIRISH K. JHA, DEPT OF SANSKRIT,PATNA UNIV.,INDIA ? From jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM Mon Sep 21 15:02:39 2009 From: jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM (girish jha) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 09 08:02:39 -0700 Subject: Happy Navaratra-Durga Puja Message-ID: <161227087604.23782.12366403102538779807.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 195 Lines: 16 Dear Indologists, ? Sattvodrekakaram? sadyao jn?navijn?navardhanam?. Navar?tram idam? bh?y?t ?r?devyanukampay?. Regards, Sincerely GIRISH K. JHA DEPT OF SANSKRIT,PATNA UNIV.,INDIA ? From axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE Tue Sep 22 08:15:11 2009 From: axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE (Axel Michaels) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 09 01:15:11 -0700 Subject: New publication (sorry for cross-mailing) Message-ID: <161227087608.23782.1700964616382964190.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2026 Lines: 84 The Body in India: Ritual, Transgression, Performativity ed. by Axel Michaels and Christoph Wulf Berlin: Akademie Verlag, 2009 (= Paragrana ? Internationale Zeitschrift f?r Historische Anthropologie, vol. 18.1 (2009)) 323 pp., 28,- Euro Contents Axel Michaels and Christoph Wulf: Rethinking the Body: An Introduction 1. The body in religious and philosophical texts Francis Zimmermann A Hindu to His Body: The Reinscription of Traditional Representations Charles Malamoud The Skin and the Self: A Note on the Limits of The Body in Brahmanic India Gerad Colas God?s Body: Epistemic and Ritual Conceptions from Sanskrit Texts of Logic David Gordon White Yogic Rays: The Self-Externaliziation of the Yogi in Ritual, Narrative and Philosophy Gavin Flood Body, Breath, Representation in Shaiva Tantrism Fabrizia Baldissera Telling Bodies: The Uncanny Images of Hypocrits, Bawda, Drunkards and Fake Gurus in Sanskrit Satirical Works Margrit Pernau The Indian Body and Unani Medicine: Body History as Entangled History Arno B?hler Open Bodies 2. The body in narratives and ritual performances Rich Freeman Untouchable Bodies of Knowledge in the Spirit Possesion of Malabar William Sax Performing God?s Body Cornelia Schnepel Bodies field with Divine Energy: The Indian Dance Odissi Ute H?sken Ritual Competence as Embodied Knowledge S. Simon John, Human Body, Folk Narratives and Rituals 3. The body in visualisations and images Monica Juneja Translating the Body into Image: The Body Politic and Visual Practice at the Mughal Court During the Sixteenth and Seventeenth Centuries Christiane Brosius The Multiple Bodies of the Bride: Ritualising ?World Class? at Elite Weddings in Urban India Rekha Menon The Politics of the Sensous and the Sacre Body in India Iris Clemens Lost in Translation? Managing Paradoxical Situations by Inventing Identities From jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM Tue Sep 22 09:08:34 2009 From: jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM (girish jha) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 09 02:08:34 -0700 Subject: Happy Navaratra repeated due to metric drawback. Message-ID: <161227087611.23782.12174466491170464183.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 196 Lines: 15 Dear Indologists, ? Sattvodrekakaram? sadyo jn?navijn?navardhanam?. Navar?tram idam? bh?y?t ?r?devy?? anukampay?. Regards, Sincerely GIRISH K. JHA DEPT OF SANSKRIT,PATNA UNIV. INDIA ? From nina.mirnig at UNIV.OX.AC.UK Tue Sep 22 08:07:37 2009 From: nina.mirnig at UNIV.OX.AC.UK (Nina Mirnig) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 09 09:07:37 +0100 Subject: IIGRS - final reminder Message-ID: <161227087606.23782.17900785088560704228.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 695 Lines: 19 Dear list members, This is a final reminder that the first International Indology Graduate Research Symposium (IIGRS) will be held at St.Hilda?s College, Oxford University, from the 28th ? 29th September. Please find the programme at http://iigrs.byethost17.com/programme/ , and contact me directly at nina.mirnig(at)univ.ox.ac.uk should you be interested in attending. The IIGRS is possible thanks to the generous financial support of the Arts and Humanities Research Council (AHRC), UK, and the Faculty of Oriental Studies, University of Oxford. With best wishes, Nina Mirnig, on behalf of the Organizing Committee Candidate for the D.phil in Oriental Studies University of Oxford From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Sep 22 17:44:35 2009 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 09 13:44:35 -0400 Subject: India, Raj and Empire database available at Library of Congress Message-ID: <161227087613.23782.17604014982952012097.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1873 Lines: 45 The Library of Congress has just instituted a permanent subscription to this database from Adam Mathew Digital. India, Raj and Empire Manuscript Collections from the National Library of Scotland On-Site Access Only Description: Provides historical material from the manuscript collections of the National Library of Scotland covering South Asia between the foundation of the East India Company in 1615 and the granting of independence to India and Pakistan in 1947. India, Raj and Empire traces social and urban history, Indian politics, the growth of Nationalism, and colonial administration. The Raj typically refers to areas directly administered by the United Kingdom, as well as the princely states ruled by individual rulers under the paramountcy of the British Crown - which in this resource includes Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Afghanistan, Malaysia and Singapore. Thematic areas that can be browsed: * The East India Company: Government and Administration c.1750-1857 * Agriculture and Trade c.1750-1857 * Society, Travel and Leisure c.1750-1857 * The Mysore and Maratha Wars * Indian Uprising 1857-58 * The Raj: British Government and Administration of India after 1858 * Agriculture and Trade after 1858 * Society, Travel and Leisure after 1858 * India: Literature, History and Culture List of Sources from the National Library of Scotland Coverage: 1615 - 1947 Subject(s) Asian Studies History, Genealogy & Archives Politics & Government Subscription Database List Allen Thrasher Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Wed Sep 23 12:37:42 2009 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 09 14:37:42 +0200 Subject: Publication Announcement Message-ID: <161227087616.23782.16492768837979265862.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 956 Lines: 49 Upanischaden - Arkanum des Veda. Walter Slaje. Frankfurt /M: Verlag der Weltreligionen 2009. pp. 654. 42,00 ? ISBN: 978-3-458-70020-3 Contents: Annotated German translation with introduction and exhaustive indexes. Rgveda: (1) Aitareya, (2) Kausitaki Black Yajurveda: (3) Taittiriya, (4) Svetasvatara, (5) Katha White Yajurveda: (6) Brhadaranyaka(Madhyandina), (7) Isa(Madhyandina) Samaveda: (8) Chandogya, (9) Kena Atharvaveda (10) Mundaka, (11) Prasna, (12) Mandukya Kindly regarding, WS ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From James_Fitzgerald at BROWN.EDU Thu Sep 24 10:12:53 2009 From: James_Fitzgerald at BROWN.EDU (Fitzgerald, James) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 09 06:12:53 -0400 Subject: New Ph.D. programs in Sanskrit/Indian Religions at Brown University Message-ID: <161227087618.23782.14494606438400841449.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 911 Lines: 38 Dear colleagues, Please pass the following two announcements along to wherever it may be of interest to qualified applicants. Brown University is now accepting applications for Fall 2010 for a new Ph.D. track in Sanskrit in its Department of Classics. Information is available at http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Sanskrit_in_Classics_at_Brown/SanskritP rogram/ . The Department of Religious Studies at Brown (http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Religious_Studies/ ) has also recently approved a Ph.D. program in South Asian Religions as part of a new Asian Religions Track. It too is accepting applications for graduate study to begin in the Fall of 2010. Thank you, James L. Fitzgerald Das Professor of Sanskrit Department of Classics Brown University From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Fri Sep 25 20:15:02 2009 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 09 13:15:02 -0700 Subject: Indian Roman Keyboard for Mac In-Reply-To: <49FA01725B5DCC4D9F91524E8DC478AE01B401A8@VS2.exc.top.gwdg.de> Message-ID: <161227087621.23782.12351289894040953759.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 784 Lines: 18 I have made a unicode keyboard driver for the Mac (OS X -- I'm using Snow leopard, but it should run on earlier versions of OS X) that uses the forward slash as a dead key and enables easy input of the diacriticals for Tamil and Sanskrit (and most other South Asian languages). It is available at http://tamil.berkeley.edu/software. The software is in the public domain. I did this because I suddenly realized that all the diacriticals needed for Sanskrit and Tamil are already in unicode and there is no need for a special font -- I have used the TimesIndian font for years. I have developed a Nisus macro, also available from the above website, that converts from TimesIndian to unicode for Indian diacriticals. Hope this proves useful to some. George Hart From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Fri Sep 25 20:18:57 2009 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 09 13:18:57 -0700 Subject: Indian Roman Keyboard for Mac (Corrected URL) In-Reply-To: <49FA01725B5DCC4D9F91524E8DC478AE01B401A8@VS2.exc.top.gwdg.de> Message-ID: <161227087623.23782.12478457163601559185.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 890 Lines: 21 (Note the correction: the website is http://tamil.berkeley.edu and then you choose software). I have made a unicode keyboard driver for the Mac (OS X -- I'm using Snow leopard, but it should run on earlier versions of OS X) that uses the forward slash as a dead key and enables easy input of the diacriticals for Tamil and Sanskrit (and most other South Asian languages). It is available at http://tamil.berkeley.edu (choose software). The software is in the public domain. I did this because I suddenly realized that all the diacriticals needed for Sanskrit and Tamil are already in unicode and there is no need for a special font -- I have used the TimesIndian font for years. I have developed a Nisus macro, also available from the above website, that converts from TimesIndian to unicode for Indian diacriticals. Hope this proves useful to some. George Hart From tmahadevan at HOWARD.EDU Sun Sep 27 19:29:39 2009 From: tmahadevan at HOWARD.EDU (Mahadevan, Thennilapuram) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 09 15:29:39 -0400 Subject: Corroboration for the Tamil Confederacy mentioned by Kharavela In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087626.23782.6548914284910653919.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6031 Lines: 97 Hello Palaniappan: I just got back from India by was of Kyoto and World Sanskrit Conference. I find this article very interesting and stimulating. It has helped me clarify the "mUvEndar" idea,in the Sangam period. Would you place the CEras at Karur? Best, TP ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan [Palaniappa at AOL.COM] Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 12:25 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Corroboration for the Tamil Confederacy mentioned by Kharavela Here are some further thoughts on akam 31. At a minimum, akam 31 firmly establishes that the Classical Tamil poems like it are of the pre-Kalabhra and pre-Pallava period since that region was never under the control of the three Tamil dynasties at the same time during and after the Kalabhra period. mAmUlan2Ar did not seem to have been patronized by the Pandyas. Of the 30 poems sung by him, only one mentions Pandyas as a dynasty. It does not even mention a specific Pandya king. If anything, mAmUlan2Ar was probably a resident of northern Tamil Nadu based on the details he gives for various chieftains and areas of the northern Tamil region as well as non-Tamil speaking people in the border regions. Also, as one looks at the textual and epigraphic data, the existence of an earlier Tamil confederacy becomes more and more certain. Consider for example the following Classical Tamil poem. potumai cuTTiya mUvar ulakamum potumai in2Ri ANTicin2Orkkum (puRam 357.2-3) ?Even for kings who ruled alone the land that was said to be (ruled in) common by the three kings?? Another poem says taN tamiz potu en2a poRAan2 ... (puRam 51.5) ?He will not bear (to hear) the saying that the cool Tamil land is ruled in common? The poems clearly point to an earlier view of the Tamil land being shared by the three kings ?mUventar?. In other words, it was a land of three states (or tri-state) in one common Tamil nation. Even though there were chieftains like atiyamAn2 and malaiyamAn2 in the northern regions, the use of mUvar in association with rulers only referred to the three lineages of Chera, Chola, and Pandya. This is also seen in the following puRam lines sung by veLLaikkuTi nAkan2Ar in praise of Chola kiLLivaLavan2.. ?taN tamizk kizavar muracu muzagku tAn2ai mUvar uLLum aracu en2appaTuvatu nin2aE? (puRam 35.3-5) "of (the kingdoms of) the three owners of the cool Tamil land with armies with resounding drums yours alone can be called a real kingdom." Thus ?tamiz kezu mUvar? of mAmUlan2Ar and ?tamizk kizavar?mUvar? of veLLaikkuTi nAkan2Ar refer to the same threeTamil dynasties. mAmUlan2Ar sings about the famous fierce battle between the Chola king KarikAlan2 and Chera king cEralAtan2 as something in the past in akam 55. But he talks about all three kings protecting the northern frontier of Tamil region in the present. It looks as if Tamil confederacy continued even after there were some famous battles among the three kings. There are also occasions -good and bad- when the three kings come together as in puRam 367 when auvaiyAr compares the three kings to three Vedic fires or when kapilar advises them in puRam 110 against their siege of chieftain pAri?s hill. In puRam 58, kArikkaNNan2Ar praises the friendship of the Chola king and Pandya king as following the tradition of the ancient ones and wishes that they incise their symbols of tiger and carp together on the hills of their enemies. Earlier scholars like K. B. Pathak (Epigraphia Indica 9.205) have translated 'trairAjya' in South Indian Sanskrit inscriptions and literary texts as "the confederacy of three kings". Pathak quotes a commentary of Adipurana which explains trairAjya as meaning "Chola , Kerala and Pandya". The fact that the royal officials of Pandya, and Chola continued to be given the title mUvEntavELAn2 as late as 13th century CE (where the prefix mUvEnta- refers to the three Tamil kings), almost a millennium after the three kingdoms ceased to have any semblance of a confederacy, indicates the vestigial notions that must have been developed during the days of the confederacy. Possibly after the Tamil country comes under the rule of Kalabhras, iLaGkO, a Chera prince and the author of cilappatikAram, the famous Tamil epic, seems to look back nostalgically at the bygone era of Tamil confederacy and recreates it in the actions of ceGkuTTuvan2, the Chera king. In patiRRuppattu, a Classical Tamil text dealing with the Chera dynasty, no Chera king is described as having incised all three Tamil emblems (carp, bow, and tiger) on the Himalayas. Only the bow was incised by a Chera king. iLaGko incorporates the spirit of puRam 58 and makes ceGkuTTuvan2 incise all three signs. There are other features in the text which shows that iLaGkO presents a unified Tamil nation and ceGkuTTuvan2 as representing a Tamil ?confederacy.? Kamil Zvelebil calls cilappatikAram ?the first consciously national work of Tamil literature, the literary evidence of the fact that the Tamils had by that time attained nationhood.? Actually this view should be revised to state that it was the last outpouring of the longing for a nation of Tamils ruled in common by the three kings, which had ceased to exist much earlier. Thereafter, the Pandyas and Cholas seem to have ruled as Pandyas and Cholas and not as Tamils sharing a common Tamil realm (even though they patronized Tamil (along with Sanskrit) and Velvikkudi plates praise a post-Kalabhra Pandya king as having incised the carp, tiger, and bow emblems on a tall mountain). Also, when periyapurANam 4169.1 composed by the minister of Kulottunga Chola II of 12th century CE mentions ?mUvEntar tamiz vazagku nATTukku appAl? (?beyond the country where Tamil of the three kings is prevalent? ), we again seem to see a vestigial reference to the earlier confederacy ruling over the common Tamil nation. Regards, S. Palaniappan From Palaniappa at AOL.COM Mon Sep 28 04:45:14 2009 From: Palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 09 00:45:14 -0400 Subject: Corroboration for the Tamil Confederacy mentioned by Kharavela Message-ID: <161227087628.23782.17891794289772732323.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 475 Lines: 23 Dear TP, Yes, the early capital of the cEra kings was karuvUr/karUr. Regards, Palaniappan In a message dated 9/27/2009 2:34:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time, tmahadevan at HOWARD.EDU writes: Hello Palaniappan: I just got back from India by was of Kyoto and World Sanskrit Conference. I find this article very interesting and stimulating. It has helped me clarify the "mUvEndar" idea,in the Sangam period. Would you place the CEras at Karur? Best, TP From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Mon Sep 28 06:47:56 2009 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 09 08:47:56 +0200 Subject: Corroboration for the Tamil Confederacy mentioned by Kharavela In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087631.23782.10139630108606478464.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 815 Lines: 36 The problem remains the location of this karuvUr/karUr. See K.T. Ravi Varma, On the original home of CEras and the wandering Va?ci, Kottayam, 1998, pp. 103 sq. (at least for the survey of the debate about the location). Christophe Vielle > >Dear TP, > >Yes, the early capital of the cEra kings was karuvUr/karUr. > >Regards, >Palaniappan > > >In a message dated 9/27/2009 2:34:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >tmahadevan at HOWARD.EDU writes: > >Hello Palaniappan: >I just got back from India by was of Kyoto and World Sanskrit Conference. > >I find this article very interesting and stimulating. It has helped me >clarify the "mUvEndar" idea,in the Sangam period. Would you place the CEras >at Karur? > >Best, TP -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.lalibreblogs.be From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Mon Sep 28 07:39:07 2009 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 09 09:39:07 +0200 Subject: Corroboration for the Tamil Confederacy mentioned by Kharavela In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087634.23782.14580570340863140839.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1907 Lines: 64 Regarding Kar?r, a recent useful book to consult is the two-volume /Catalogue of Archaeological Sites in Tamil Nadu/, K. Rajan, V.P. Yathees Kumar, S. Selvakumar, Heritage India Trust, Thanjavur, 2009. (with a preface by Y. Subbarayalu) ISBN: 978-81-907451-1-6 (Vol.1) ISBN: 978-81-907451-2-3 (Vol. 2) Inside the section "Archaeology of Amaravathi, Noyyal and Bhavani river valley", professor K. Rajan writes (p.30): "This region was under the control of Ch?ras whose first capital Va?ji was on the banks of river Periyar in the district Trichur and the second capital Kar?r was on the left bank of river Amaravathi at its confluence with river Kaveri. Both the capitals were connected with a well-established trade route that connected through Palghat pass on its west and with K?v?ripa??i?am on the east through Ch??a capital U?aiy?r along the river K?v?ri". The book provides a lot of up-to-date information on 1995 sites. For the modern Karur district, 86 sites are listed (site N? 732 to site N? 817) on pp.265-292 (with precise location and bibliography). -- Jean-Luc Chevillard Christophe Vielle a ?crit : > The problem remains the location of this karuvUr/karUr. > See K.T. Ravi Varma, On the original home of CEras and the wandering > Va?ci, Kottayam, 1998, pp. 103 sq. (at least for the survey of the > debate about the location). > Christophe Vielle > > >> >> Dear TP, >> >> Yes, the early capital of the cEra kings was karuvUr/karUr. >> >> Regards, >> Palaniappan >> >> >> In a message dated 9/27/2009 2:34:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >> tmahadevan at HOWARD.EDU writes: >> >> Hello Palaniappan: >> I just got back from India by was of Kyoto and World Sanskrit >> Conference. >> >> I find this article very interesting and stimulating. It has helped me >> clarify the "mUvEndar" idea,in the Sangam period. Would you place the >> CEras >> at Karur? >> >> Best, TP > > From beitel at GWU.EDU Mon Sep 28 14:26:14 2009 From: beitel at GWU.EDU (Alfred Hiltebeitel) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 09 10:26:14 -0400 Subject: Corroboration for the Tamil Confederacy mentioned by Kharavela In-Reply-To: <3F1D433A9F0362458046CF05D2B02A360876A8D0B8@WPDC-EXMB02.howardu.net> Message-ID: <161227087636.23782.935849788154029630.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6892 Lines: 151 Great, circles upon circles, all closing in. Thank god for the Kalabhras!!! Alf Hiltebeitel Professor of Religion and Human Sciences Department of Religion 2106 G Street, NW George Washington University Washington DC 20052 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mahadevan, Thennilapuram" Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009 3:34 pm Subject: Re: Corroboration for the Tamil Confederacy mentioned by Kharavela To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Hello Palaniappan: > I just got back from India by was of Kyoto and World Sanskrit Conference. > > I find this article very interesting and stimulating. It has helped > me clarify the "mUvEndar" idea,in the Sangam period. Would you place > the CEras at Karur? > > Best, TP > ________________________________________ > From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Sudalaimuthu > Palaniappan [Palaniappa at AOL.COM] > Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 12:25 AM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: Corroboration for the Tamil Confederacy mentioned by Kharavela > > Here are some further thoughts on akam 31. > At a minimum, akam 31 firmly establishes that the Classical Tamil poems > like it are of the pre-Kalabhra and pre-Pallava period since that > region was > never under the control of the three Tamil dynasties at the same time > during and after the Kalabhra period. mAmUlan2Ar did not seem to > have been > patronized by the Pandyas. Of the 30 poems sung by him, only one mentions > Pandyas as a dynasty. It does not even mention a specific Pandya > king. If > anything, mAmUlan2Ar was probably a resident of northern Tamil Nadu > based on the > details he gives for various chieftains and areas of the northern Tamil > region as well as non-Tamil speaking people in the border regions. > Also, as one looks at the textual and epigraphic data, the existence > of an > earlier Tamil confederacy becomes more and more certain. Consider for > example the following Classical Tamil poem. > potumai cuTTiya mUvar ulakamum > potumai in2Ri ANTicin2Orkkum (puRam 357.2-3) > ?Even for kings who ruled alone the land that was said to be (ruled > in) > common by the three kings?? > Another poem says > taN tamiz potu en2a poRAan2 ... (puRam 51.5) > ?He will not bear (to hear) the saying that the cool Tamil land is ruled > in common? > The poems clearly point to an earlier view of the Tamil land being shared > by the three kings ?mUventar?. In other words, it was a land of three > states (or tri-state) in one common Tamil nation. Even though there > were > chieftains like atiyamAn2 and malaiyamAn2 in the northern regions, > the use of > mUvar in association with rulers only referred to the three lineages > of > Chera, Chola, and Pandya. This is also seen in the following puRam > lines sung > by veLLaikkuTi nAkan2Ar in praise of Chola kiLLivaLavan2.. > ?taN tamizk kizavar > muracu muzagku tAn2ai mUvar uLLum > aracu en2appaTuvatu nin2aE? (puRam 35.3-5) > "of (the kingdoms of) the three owners of the cool Tamil land with armies > with resounding drums yours alone can be called a real kingdom." > Thus ?tamiz kezu mUvar? of mAmUlan2Ar and ?tamizk kizavar?mUvar? of > veLLaikkuTi nAkan2Ar refer to the same threeTamil dynasties. > mAmUlan2Ar sings about the famous fierce battle between the Chola king > KarikAlan2 and Chera king cEralAtan2 as something in the past in > akam 55. But > he talks about all three kings protecting the northern frontier of Tamil > region in the present. It looks as if Tamil confederacy continued > even after > there were some famous battles among the three kings. There are also > occasions -good and bad- when the three kings come together as in > puRam 367 when > auvaiyAr compares the three kings to three Vedic fires or when kapilar > advises them in puRam 110 against their siege of chieftain pAri?s > hill. In > puRam 58, kArikkaNNan2Ar praises the friendship of the Chola king > and Pandya > king as following the tradition of the ancient ones and wishes that > they > incise their symbols of tiger and carp together on the hills of > their enemies. > Earlier scholars like K. B. Pathak (Epigraphia Indica 9.205) have > translated 'trairAjya' in South Indian Sanskrit inscriptions and > literary texts as > "the confederacy of three kings". Pathak quotes a commentary of Adipurana > which explains trairAjya as meaning "Chola , Kerala and Pandya". > The fact > that the royal officials of Pandya, and Chola continued to be given > the > title mUvEntavELAn2 as late as 13th century CE (where the prefix mUvEnta- > refers to the three Tamil kings), almost a millennium after the three > kingdoms > ceased to have any semblance of a confederacy, indicates the vestigial > notions that must have been developed during the days of the confederacy. > Possibly after the Tamil country comes under the rule of Kalabhras, > iLaGkO, a Chera prince and the author of cilappatikAram, the famous > Tamil epic, > seems to look back nostalgically at the bygone era of Tamil > confederacy and > recreates it in the actions of ceGkuTTuvan2, the Chera king. In > patiRRuppattu, a Classical Tamil text dealing with the Chera > dynasty, no Chera king is > described as having incised all three Tamil emblems (carp, bow, and > tiger) > on the Himalayas. Only the bow was incised by a Chera king. iLaGko > incorporates the spirit of puRam 58 and makes ceGkuTTuvan2 incise > all three signs. > There are other features in the text which shows that iLaGkO > presents a > unified Tamil nation and ceGkuTTuvan2 as representing a Tamil ?confederacy.? > > Kamil Zvelebil calls cilappatikAram ?the first consciously national > work > of Tamil literature, the literary evidence of the fact that the > Tamils had > by that time attained nationhood.? Actually this view should be > revised to > state that it was the last outpouring of the longing for a nation of > Tamils > ruled in common by the three kings, which had ceased to exist much earlier. > Thereafter, the Pandyas and Cholas seem to have ruled as Pandyas and > Cholas and not as Tamils sharing a common Tamil realm (even though they > patronized Tamil (along with Sanskrit) and Velvikkudi plates praise > a post-Kalabhra > Pandya king as having incised the carp, tiger, and bow emblems on a > tall > mountain). Also, when periyapurANam 4169.1 composed by the minister > of > Kulottunga Chola II of 12th century CE mentions ?mUvEntar tamiz vazagku > nATTukku appAl? (?beyond the country where Tamil of the three kings > is prevalent? > ), we again seem to see a vestigial reference to the earlier confederacy > ruling over the common Tamil nation. > Regards, > S. Palaniappan From beitel at GWU.EDU Mon Sep 28 14:35:13 2009 From: beitel at GWU.EDU (Alfred Hiltebeitel) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 09 10:35:13 -0400 Subject: Corroboration for the Tamil Confederacy mentioned by Kharavela In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087638.23782.4380426319240428537.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7883 Lines: 215 Sorry, sent inadvertently. Alf Hiltebeitel Professor of Religion and Human Sciences Department of Religion 2106 G Street, NW George Washington University Washington DC 20052 ----- Original Message ----- From: Alfred Hiltebeitel Date: Monday, September 28, 2009 10:26 am Subject: Re: Corroboration for the Tamil Confederacy mentioned by Kharavela To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Great, circles upon circles, all closing in. Thank god for the Kalabhras!!! > > Alf Hiltebeitel > Professor of Religion and Human Sciences > Department of Religion > 2106 G Street, NW > George Washington University > Washington DC 20052 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mahadevan, Thennilapuram" > Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009 3:34 pm > Subject: Re: Corroboration for the Tamil Confederacy mentioned by Kharavela > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > > > Hello Palaniappan: > > I just got back from India by was of Kyoto and World Sanskrit Conference. > > > > I find this article very interesting and stimulating. It has > helped > > me clarify the "mUvEndar" idea,in the Sangam period. Would you > place > > the CEras at Karur? > > > > Best, TP > > ________________________________________ > > From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of > Sudalaimuthu > > Palaniappan [Palaniappa at AOL.COM] > > Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 12:25 AM > > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Subject: Re: Corroboration for the Tamil Confederacy mentioned by > Kharavela > > > > Here are some further thoughts on akam 31. > > At a minimum, akam 31 firmly establishes that the Classical Tamil > poems > > like it are of the pre-Kalabhra and pre-Pallava period since that > > > region was > > never under the control of the three Tamil dynasties at the same > time > > during and after the Kalabhra period. mAmUlan2Ar did not seem to > > > have been > > patronized by the Pandyas. Of the 30 poems sung by him, only one > mentions > > Pandyas as a dynasty. It does not even mention a specific Pandya > > > king. If > > anything, mAmUlan2Ar was probably a resident of northern Tamil > Nadu > > based on the > > details he gives for various chieftains and areas of the northern > Tamil > > region as well as non-Tamil speaking people in the border regions. > > Also, as one looks at the textual and epigraphic data, the > existence > > of an > > earlier Tamil confederacy becomes more and more certain. Consider > for > > example the following Classical Tamil poem. > > potumai cuTTiya mUvar ulakamum > > potumai in2Ri ANTicin2Orkkum (puRam 357.2-3) > > ?Even for kings who ruled alone the land that was said to be > (ruled > > in) > > common by the three kings?? > > Another poem says > > taN tamiz potu en2a poRAan2 ... (puRam 51.5) > > ?He will not bear (to hear) the saying that the cool Tamil land > is ruled > > in common? > > The poems clearly point to an earlier view of the Tamil land > being shared > > by the three kings ?mUventar?. In other words, it was a land of three > > states (or tri-state) in one common Tamil nation. Even though > there > > were > > chieftains like atiyamAn2 and malaiyamAn2 in the northern > regions, > > the use of > > mUvar in association with rulers only referred to the three > lineages > > of > > Chera, Chola, and Pandya. This is also seen in the following > puRam > > lines sung > > by veLLaikkuTi nAkan2Ar in praise of Chola kiLLivaLavan2.. > > ?taN tamizk kizavar > > muracu muzagku tAn2ai mUvar uLLum > > aracu en2appaTuvatu nin2aE? (puRam 35.3-5) > > "of (the kingdoms of) the three owners of the cool Tamil land > with armies > > with resounding drums yours alone can be called a real kingdom." > > Thus ?tamiz kezu mUvar? of mAmUlan2Ar and ?tamizk kizavar?mUvar? > of > > veLLaikkuTi nAkan2Ar refer to the same threeTamil dynasties. > > mAmUlan2Ar sings about the famous fierce battle between the Chola > king > > KarikAlan2 and Chera king cEralAtan2 as something in the past in > > > akam 55. But > > he talks about all three kings protecting the northern frontier > of Tamil > > region in the present. It looks as if Tamil confederacy continued > > > even after > > there were some famous battles among the three kings. There are also > > occasions -good and bad- when the three kings come together as in > > > puRam 367 when > > auvaiyAr compares the three kings to three Vedic fires or when kapilar > > advises them in puRam 110 against their siege of chieftain pAri?s > > > hill. In > > puRam 58, kArikkaNNan2Ar praises the friendship of the Chola king > > > and Pandya > > king as following the tradition of the ancient ones and wishes > that > > they > > incise their symbols of tiger and carp together on the hills of > > their enemies. > > Earlier scholars like K. B. Pathak (Epigraphia Indica 9.205) have > > translated 'trairAjya' in South Indian Sanskrit inscriptions and > > > literary texts as > > "the confederacy of three kings". Pathak quotes a commentary of Adipurana > > which explains trairAjya as meaning "Chola , Kerala and Pandya". > > > The fact > > that the royal officials of Pandya, and Chola continued to be > given > > the > > title mUvEntavELAn2 as late as 13th century CE (where the prefix mUvEnta- > > refers to the three Tamil kings), almost a millennium after the > three > > kingdoms > > ceased to have any semblance of a confederacy, indicates the vestigial > > notions that must have been developed during the days of the confederacy. > > Possibly after the Tamil country comes under the rule of Kalabhras, > > iLaGkO, a Chera prince and the author of cilappatikAram, the > famous > > Tamil epic, > > seems to look back nostalgically at the bygone era of Tamil > > confederacy and > > recreates it in the actions of ceGkuTTuvan2, the Chera king. In > > patiRRuppattu, a Classical Tamil text dealing with the Chera > > dynasty, no Chera king is > > described as having incised all three Tamil emblems (carp, bow, > and > > tiger) > > on the Himalayas. Only the bow was incised by a Chera king. iLaGko > > incorporates the spirit of puRam 58 and makes ceGkuTTuvan2 incise > > > all three signs. > > There are other features in the text which shows that iLaGkO > > presents a > > unified Tamil nation and ceGkuTTuvan2 as representing a Tamil ?confederacy.? > > > > Kamil Zvelebil calls cilappatikAram ?the first consciously > national > > work > > of Tamil literature, the literary evidence of the fact that the > > Tamils had > > by that time attained nationhood.? Actually this view should be > > revised to > > state that it was the last outpouring of the longing for a nation > of > > Tamils > > ruled in common by the three kings, which had ceased to exist > much earlier. > > Thereafter, the Pandyas and Cholas seem to have ruled as Pandyas > and > > Cholas and not as Tamils sharing a common Tamil realm (even > though they > > patronized Tamil (along with Sanskrit) and Velvikkudi plates > praise > > a post-Kalabhra > > Pandya king as having incised the carp, tiger, and bow emblems on > a > > tall > > mountain). Also, when periyapurANam 4169.1 composed by the > minister > > of > > Kulottunga Chola II of 12th century CE mentions ?mUvEntar tamiz > vazagku > > nATTukku appAl? (?beyond the country where Tamil of the three > kings > > is prevalent? > > ), we again seem to see a vestigial reference to the earlier confederacy > > ruling over the common Tamil nation. > > Regards, > > S. Palaniappan From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Mon Sep 28 19:24:57 2009 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 09 12:24:57 -0700 Subject: Need references for descriptions of Buddhist nuns in literature Message-ID: <161227087644.23782.5116231832645003415.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 801 Lines: 25 Dear All, I'm looking for any descriptions of Buddhist nuns in any earliest Buddhist literature. Specifically, I'm interested in understanding whether our literature reflected reality, and if so to what extent. In literature -- How are the Buddhist nuns described? In reality -- How were they officiated? What did they wear? Did they wear any jewelry to adorn themselves? Did they shave their head? What did they eat? Where did they live? Did they maintain their ties with their kin? What did they do on a daily basis -- did they go around and preach, and if so what did they do and preach?, ... , so on and so forth. I would appreciate any informative posting on this list. Please also feel free to contact me directly at: . Thanks and regards, Rajam From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Mon Sep 28 19:54:56 2009 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 09 12:54:56 -0700 Subject: Need references for descriptions of Buddhist nuns in literature In-Reply-To: <001201ca4074$d7df9aa0$2101a8c0@Dan> Message-ID: <161227087650.23782.5602032465281300220.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1092 Lines: 39 Thank you Dan! I'll look into these studies. Regards, Rajam On Sep 28, 2009, at 12:49 PM, Dan Lusthaus wrote: > Rajam, > > If you want to research that thoroughly, you will find a wealth of > material in the Pali Tipitaka, esp, the Vinaya and Nikayas. Women > did preach, DhammadinnA being the most prominent (e.g., Majjhima > NikAya 24). As for what they wore, daily activities, the vinaya is > filled with rules and descriptions of that; there are more rules > for nuns than for more monks. > > Aside from working through the Vinaya yourself (which I recommend), > see also: > > Chatsumarn Kabilsingh, _A Comparative Study of BhikkhunI > pATimokkha_ Varnasi and Delhi: Chaukhambha Orientalia, 1994. > > _Women in the Footsteps of the Buddha: Struggle for Liberation in > the Therigatha_ by Kathryn R. Blackstone. Motilal Banarsidass; 1st > Indian ed edition (2000). > > Others can provide additional reading. > > Dan Lusthaus > > ----- Original Message ----- >> I'm looking for any descriptions of Buddhist nuns in any earliest >> Buddhist literature. > >> Rajam From jkirk at SPRO.NET Mon Sep 28 20:11:11 2009 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 09 14:11:11 -0600 Subject: Need references for descriptions of Buddhist nuns in literature In-Reply-To: <001201ca4074$d7df9aa0$2101a8c0@Dan> Message-ID: <161227087653.23782.14804378099070924768.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 129 Lines: 8 You might also check the Therigatha online here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/thig/index.html J. Kirkpatrick From vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET Mon Sep 28 19:49:51 2009 From: vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 09 15:49:51 -0400 Subject: Need references for descriptions of Buddhist nuns in literature Message-ID: <161227087647.23782.3416292427402462763.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 926 Lines: 31 Rajam, If you want to research that thoroughly, you will find a wealth of material in the Pali Tipitaka, esp, the Vinaya and Nikayas. Women did preach, DhammadinnA being the most prominent (e.g., Majjhima NikAya 24). As for what they wore, daily activities, the vinaya is filled with rules and descriptions of that; there are more rules for nuns than for more monks. Aside from working through the Vinaya yourself (which I recommend), see also: Chatsumarn Kabilsingh, _A Comparative Study of BhikkhunI pATimokkha_ Varnasi and Delhi: Chaukhambha Orientalia, 1994. _Women in the Footsteps of the Buddha: Struggle for Liberation in the Therigatha_ by Kathryn R. Blackstone. Motilal Banarsidass; 1st Indian ed edition (2000). Others can provide additional reading. Dan Lusthaus ----- Original Message ----- > I'm looking for any descriptions of Buddhist nuns in any earliest > Buddhist literature. > Rajam > From joseph.walser at TUFTS.EDU Mon Sep 28 20:28:15 2009 From: joseph.walser at TUFTS.EDU (Joseph Walser) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 09 16:28:15 -0400 Subject: Need references for descriptions of Buddhist nuns in literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087656.23782.15715813423920142981.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1165 Lines: 44 Dear Rajam, You may also want to look at: Rules for Nuns According to the Dharmaguptakavinaya: The Discipline in Four Parts (3 Book Set from Motilal Banarsidass) by Ann Heirman . -j rajam wrote: > Dear All, > > I'm looking for any descriptions of Buddhist nuns in any earliest > Buddhist literature. > > Specifically, I'm interested in understanding whether our literature > reflected reality, and if so to what extent. > > In literature -- How are the Buddhist nuns described? > > In reality -- How were they officiated? What did they wear? Did they > wear any jewelry to adorn themselves? Did they shave their head? What > did they eat? Where did they live? Did they maintain their ties with > their kin? What did they do on a daily basis -- did they go around and > preach, and if so what did they do and preach?, ... , so on and so forth. > > I would appreciate any informative posting on this list. Please also > feel free to contact me directly at: . > > Thanks and regards, > Rajam -- Joseph Walser Associate Professor Department of Religion Tufts University 126 Curtis Street Medford, MA 02155 Office: 617 627-2322 From e.ciurtin at GMAIL.COM Mon Sep 28 17:58:02 2009 From: e.ciurtin at GMAIL.COM (Eugen Ciurtin) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 09 20:58:02 +0300 Subject: None Message-ID: <161227087641.23782.6562515202838107306.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 558 Lines: 26 Dear Members, Does anybody have a recent email contact of Dr Guillaume Ducoeur (Universit? de Strasbourg). An offlist reply will be highly appreciated. thank you EC -- Dr E. Ciurtin Secretary of the Romanian Association for the History of Religions www.rahr.ro Publications Officer of the European Association for the Study of Religions www.easr.eu Lecturer & Secretary of the Scientific Council Institute for the History of Religions, Romanian Academy Calea 13 Septembrie no. 13 sect. 5, Bucharest 050711 Phone: 00 40 733 951 953 www.ihr-acad.ro From tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU Wed Sep 30 14:30:01 2009 From: tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU (Tracy Coleman) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 09 08:30:01 -0600 Subject: Brill?s Encyclopedia of Hinduism, volume 1 Message-ID: <161227087662.23782.1216522611779237127.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1004 Lines: 49 What is the publication schedule for the entire set? -----Original Message----- From: Indology on behalf of Ute Huesken Sent: Wed 9/30/2009 7:20 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Brill?s Encyclopedia of Hinduism, volume 1 Dear list members, Professor Knut A. Jacobsen asked me to forward the following message to the list: Greetings All, The first volume of the five volume Brill?s Encyclopedia of Hinduism has now been published. See http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=210&pid=27775 for price and ordering information and the home page of the Encyclopedia http://www.brill.nl/encyclopediahinduism for table of contents, list of contributors, etc. Please recommend it to your library. Yours, Knut A. Jacobsen Editor-in-Chief, Brill?s Encyclopedia of Hinduism Prof. Dr. Knut A. Jacobsen AHKR, History of Religions University of Bergen P.O. 7805? 5020 Bergen Norway Phone: 47 91133020 Knut.Jacobsen at ahkr.uib.no http://www.hf.uib.no/i/religion/tilsette/jacobsen2.html From ute.huesken at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Wed Sep 30 13:20:16 2009 From: ute.huesken at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Ute Huesken) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 09 15:20:16 +0200 Subject: Brill?s Encyclopedia of Hinduism, volume 1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227087659.23782.12101231081380806044.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 768 Lines: 40 Dear list members, Professor Knut A. Jacobsen asked me to forward the following message to the list: Greetings All, The first volume of the five volume Brill?s Encyclopedia of Hinduism has now been published. See http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=210&pid=27775 for price and ordering information and the home page of the Encyclopedia http://www.brill.nl/encyclopediahinduism for table of contents, list of contributors, etc. Please recommend it to your library. Yours, Knut A. Jacobsen Editor-in-Chief, Brill?s Encyclopedia of Hinduism Prof. Dr. Knut A. Jacobsen AHKR, History of Religions University of Bergen P.O. 7805? 5020 Bergen Norway Phone: 47 91133020 Knut.Jacobsen at ahkr.uib.no http://www.hf.uib.no/i/religion/tilsette/jacobsen2.html From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Aug 2 08:49:36 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 10 10:49:36 +0200 Subject: MS digitization in Tripunithura Message-ID: <161227090071.23782.16169017751638368837.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 83 Lines: 4 http://expressbuzz.com/cities/kochi/digitising-medieval-manuscripts/194643.html From nlpdept at YAHOO.CO.IN Mon Aug 2 17:58:07 2010 From: nlpdept at YAHOO.CO.IN (Srinivasa Varakhedi) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 10 23:28:07 +0530 Subject: MS digitization in Tripunithura In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090074.23782.15551665666332077906.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 474 Lines: 23 Dear Administrator, ? Nowadays i am not using this email id. Kindly replace this with id - shrivara at gmail.com . ? warm regards, shri.varakhedi --- On Mon, 2/8/10, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: From: Dominik Wujastyk Subject: [INDOLOGY] MS digitization in Tripunithura To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 2 August, 2010, 2:19 PM http://expressbuzz.com/cities/kochi/digitising-medieval-manuscripts/194643.html From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Tue Aug 3 07:13:46 2010 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 10 09:13:46 +0200 Subject: New Tibetan resource Message-ID: <161227090077.23782.10991153577367792022.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 784 Lines: 29 Dear Colleagues, This morning I received email about the following: The Digital Preservation Society has released their Digital Tempangma manuscript kangyur recently. More information on this release is available in this website. http://www.tibet-dps.org/ What they have digitzed is a Peking Kanjur and what appears to be the so-called "Ulan Bator Manuscript of the *Kanjur* Rgyal-rtse Them-spangs-ma" catalogued by G?za *Bethlenfalvy*. The quality (one can download samples) is stunning--but the price is also impressive, I'm afraid (note, in case you're thinking of ordering, that the Yen price is somewhat cheaper than the dollar price, at the current exchange rate). Best, jonathan -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Tue Aug 3 11:56:26 2010 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 10 13:56:26 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Scholarships proposed by the French Institute of Pondicherry Message-ID: <161227090080.23782.2208318750361907164.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5484 Lines: 143 >Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 15:34:05 +0620 >From: IFP Info >Subject: Bourses offertes par l?Institut >Fran?ais de Pondich?ry / Scholarships proposed >by the French Institute of Pondicherry > > >Scholarships by the French Institute of Pondicherry > >Scholarships proposed by the French Institute of Pondicherry > >The French Institute of Pondicherry (IFP) offers >7 (seven) doctoral scholarships in the fields of >Ecology, Indology and Social Sciences. > >The scholarships are open to people of all >nationalities who wish to work on a topic that >is in relation with the research programmes >conducted at the IFP >(http://www.ifpindia.org/-Research-.html). >These scholarships are of different kinds: > >One (1) international scholarship (BI) of a >two-year duration (+1 year renewable), which is >addressed to doctoral students registered in a >university of a Northern1 country and who wish >to work at the IFP, which must be the main host >laboratory for the thesis. The monthly >scholarship is of 65,000 INR per month, with a >paid return ticket between the country of >registration and India (at the beginning and at >the end of the stay)2. >Two (2) ? sandwich ? scholarships (BS) of a >two-year duration (+1 year renewable), which is >addressed to doctoral students registered in a >university of a Northern1 country or in an >Indian university, and who wish to work >alternately with the IFP and a second host >laboratory, situated in the North. The monthly >scholarship is of 25,000 INR during the stays in >India, and of 65,000 INR during the stays in the >North (maximum 18 months out of 36). The >scholarship will pay for a return ticket between >the country of registration and India for each >year of the thesis (3 return tickets in total)2. >Four (4) local scholarships (BL) of a two-year >duration (+1 year renewable), which is addressed >to doctoral students registered in an Indian >university and who wish to work at the IFP, >which must be the main host laboratory for the >thesis. The monthly scholarship is of 25,000 >INR2. >[1]By Northern country, we mean one of the 38 >countries classified among those having a ? very >high human development ? (HDI = 0,9) according >to the 2009 United Nations classification (see >the list in annexure or >http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/) > >[2]all scholarship holders will benefit from an >insurance for industrial accident during their >stays in India and an insurance for medical >repatriation for the stays abroad (BI and BS). > >Click >here for more information. > > >Bourses offertes par l?Institut Fran?ais de Pondich?ry > >L?Institut Fran?ais de Pondich?ry (IFP) offre 7 >(sept) bourses d??tudes doctorales dans les >domaines de l?Ecologie, de l?Indologie et des >Sciences Sociales. > >Les bourses sont ouvertes aux personnes de toute >nationalit? souhaitant travailler sur un sujet >en relation avec les programmes de recherche de >l'IFP >(http://www.ifpindia.org/-Research-.html). >Ces bourses sont de plusieurs natures : > >Une (1) bourse internationale (BI) d?une dur?e >de deux (2) ans (+ 1 an renouvelable) qui >s'adresse ? des doctorants inscrits dans une >universit? d'un pays du Nord1 et souhaitant >travailler ? l'IFP qui sera obligatoirement le >laboratoire principal d'accueil de la th?se. Le >montant de la bourse est de 65,000 INR mensuels >avec prise en charge d'un voyage aller-retour >entre le pays d'inscription et l'Inde (en d?but >et fin de s?jour)2. >Deux (2) bourses ? sandwich ? (BS) d?une dur?e >de deux (2) ans (+ 1 an renouvelable) qui >s'adressent ? des doctorants inscrits dans une >universit? d'un pays du Nord1 ou dans une >universit? indienne et souhaitant travailler en >alternance entre l'IFP et un second laboratoire >d'accueil situ? au Nord. Le montant de la bourse >est de 25,000 INR mensuels pour les p?riodes >pass?es en Inde et de 65,000 INR mensuels pour >les p?riodes pass?es au Nord (maximum 18 mois >sur 36). La bourse prend en charge un voyage >aller-retour entre le pays d'inscription et >l'Inde pour chaque ann?e de th?se (3 voyages AR >au total)2. >Quatre (4) bourses locales (BL) d?une dur?e de >deux (2) ans (+ 1 an renouvelable) qui >s'adressent ? des doctorants inscrits dans une >universit? indienne et souhaitant travailler ? >l'IFP qui sera obligatoirement le laboratoire >principal d'accueil de la th?se. Le montant de >la bourse est de 25,000 INR mensuels2. >[1]On entend par pays du Nord l'un des 38 pays >class?s parmi ceux poss?dant un "very high human >development" (HDI = 0,9) selon la classification >des Nations Unies 2009 (voir liste en annexe ou >http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/). > >[2]Tous les boursiers b?n?ficieront d'une >assurance accidents professionnels lors de leurs >s?jours en Inde et d'une assurance rapatriement >sanitaire pour les s?jours ? l'?tranger (BI et >BS). > >Cliquer >ici pour plus d'informations. > > >Anand Pakiam >Communications In-Charge >French Institute of Pondicherry >11, St. Louis Street, P.B. 33, Pondicherry-605 001, INDIA >Phone: (91)-413-2334168. Fax:(91)-413-2339534 >E-mail:ifpcom at ifpindia.org -- From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Aug 3 12:01:53 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 10 14:01:53 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Bourses offertes par l=?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=99Institut_Fran=C3=A7ais_de__Pondich=C3=A9ry?= / Scholarships proposed by the French Institute of Pondicherry In-Reply-To: <0584d58db924b61b42bd3970a9aa0f35@www.ifpindia.org> Message-ID: <161227090083.23782.15668786940115292275.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5331 Lines: 107 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: IFP Info Date: 3 August 2010 11:14 Subject: Bourses offertes par l?Institut Fran?ais de Pondich?ry / Scholarships proposed by the French Institute of Pondicherry Scholarships by the French Institute of Pondicherry Bourses offertes par l?Institut Fran?ais de Pondich?ry L?Institut Fran?ais de Pondich?ry (IFP) offre 7 (sept) bourses d??tudes doctorales dans les domaines de l?Ecologie, de l?Indologie et des Sciences Sociales. Les bourses sont ouvertes aux personnes de toute nationalit? souhaitant travailler sur un sujet en relation avec les programmes de recherche de l'IFP (http://www.ifpindia.org/-Research-.html). Ces bourses sont de plusieurs natures : - Une (1) bourse internationale (BI) d?une dur?e de deux (2) ans (+ 1 an renouvelable) qui s'adresse ? des doctorants inscrits dans une universit? d'un pays du Nord1 et souhaitant travailler ? l'IFP qui sera obligatoirement le laboratoire principal d'accueil de la th?se. Le montant de la bourse est de 65,000 INR mensuels avec prise en charge d'un voyage aller-retour entre le pays d'inscription et l'Inde (en d?but et fin de s?jour)2. - Deux (2) bourses ? sandwich ? (BS) d?une dur?e de deux (2) ans (+ 1 an renouvelable) qui s'adressent ? des doctorants inscrits dans une universit? d'un pays du Nord1 ou dans une universit? indienne et souhaitant travailler en alternance entre l'IFP et un second laboratoire d'accueil situ? au Nord. Le montant de la bourse est de 25,000 INR mensuels pour les p?riodes pass?es en Inde et de 65,000 INR mensuels pour les p?riodes pass?es au Nord (maximum 18 mois sur 36). La bourse prend en charge un voyage aller-retour entre le pays d'inscription et l'Inde pour chaque ann?e de th?se (3 voyages AR au total)2. - Quatre (4) bourses locales (BL) d?une dur?e de deux (2) ans (+ 1 an renouvelable) qui s'adressent ? des doctorants inscrits dans une universit? indienne et souhaitant travailler ? l'IFP qui sera obligatoirement le laboratoire principal d'accueil de la th?se. Le montant de la bourse est de 25,000 INR mensuels2. [1]On entend par pays du Nord l'un des 38 pays class?s parmi ceux poss?dant un "very high human development" (HDI = 0,9) selon la classification des Nations Unies 2009 (voir liste en annexe ou http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/). [2]Tous les boursiers b?n?ficieront d'une assurance accidents professionnels lors de leurs s?jours en Inde et d'une assurance rapatriement sanitaire pour les s?jours ? l'?tranger (BI et BS). Cliquer ici pour plus d'informations. ------------------------------ Scholarships proposed by the French Institute of Pondicherry The French Institute of Pondicherry (IFP) offers 7 (seven) doctoral scholarships in the fields of Ecology, Indology and Social Sciences. The scholarships are open to people of all nationalities who wish to work on a topic that is in relation with the research programmes conducted at the IFP (http://www.ifpindia.org/-Research-.html). These scholarships are of different kinds: - One (1) international scholarship (BI) of a two-year duration (+1 year renewable), which is addressed to doctoral students registered in a university of a Northern1 country and who wish to work at the IFP, which must be the main host laboratory for the thesis. The monthly scholarship is of 65,000 INR per month, with a paid return ticket between the country of registration and India (at the beginning and at the end of the stay)2. - Two (2) ? sandwich ? scholarships (BS) of a two-year duration (+1 year renewable), which is addressed to doctoral students registered in a university of a Northern1 country or in an Indian university, and who wish to work alternately with the IFP and a second host laboratory, situated in the North. The monthly scholarship is of 25,000 INR during the stays in India, and of 65,000 INR during the stays in the North (maximum 18 months out of 36). The scholarship will pay for a return ticket between the country of registration and India for each year of the thesis (3 return tickets in total)2. - Four (4) local scholarships (BL) of a two-year duration (+1 year renewable), which is addressed to doctoral students registered in an Indian university and who wish to work at the IFP, which must be the main host laboratory for the thesis. The monthly scholarship is of 25,000 INR2. [1]By Northern country, we mean one of the 38 countries classified among those having a ? very high human development ? (HDI = 0,9) according to the 2009 United Nations classification (see the list in annexure or http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/) [2]all scholarship holders will benefit from an insurance for industrial accident during their stays in India and an insurance for medical repatriation for the stays abroad (BI and BS). Click here for more information. Anand Pakiam Communications In-Charge French Institute of Pondicherry 11, St. Louis Street, P.B. 33, Pondicherry-605 001, INDIA Phone: (91)-413-2334168. Fax:(91)-413-2339534 E-mail:ifpcom at ifpindia.org From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Tue Aug 3 14:03:54 2010 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 10 16:03:54 +0200 Subject: New publications available online from Japan Message-ID: <161227090087.23782.10655456800217988905.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 395 Lines: 20 Prof Seishi Karashima has asked me to inform the list of the following: Some of our publications, incl. my recent glossary, are downloadable from the following sites: http://iriab.soka.ac.jp/orc/Publications/BPPB/index_BPPB.html http://iriab.soka.ac.jp/orc/Publications/ARIRIAB/index_ARIRIAB.html -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK Tue Aug 3 18:47:00 2010 From: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 10 19:47:00 +0100 Subject: [Devnag-general] Xindy modules for Hindi and Marathi (fwd) Message-ID: <161227090090.23782.15416372580366510550.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1324 Lines: 38 For those of you interested in indexing Indian languages,... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 20:46:51 +0200 From: Zdenek Wagner Reply-To: General mailing list for Devnag project To: general xindy announcements and discussions , General mailing list for Devnag project Hi all, I have updated the modules for Hindi and Marathi. Since the previous release a few small bugs were found and fixed. Marathi rules now exist also in transliteration and a module with merge rules for nuktas was developed. Documentation was updated, the transliteration script is documented via POD. Feedback still required, mainly from a Marathi native speaker. Addition of Nepali support requires help of a Nepali native speaker. In order to be compatible with xindy it was decided to license the package under GLP V2+. The URL of the package is http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz/xindy-devanagari/ -- Zden?k Wagner http://hroch486.icpf.cas.cz/wagner/ http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz _______________________________________________ Devnag-general mailing list Devnag-general at lists.sarovar.org http://lists.sarovar.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devnag-general From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Aug 4 11:11:10 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 10 13:11:10 +0200 Subject: Golden Dictionary Message-ID: <161227090093.23782.18019662124986731374.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1310 Lines: 35 Manuel Batsching's very useful blog post, - http://flammschild.blog.uni-heidelberg.de/2010/07/28/the-golden-dictionary/ draws attention to the Golden Dictionary software that runs on Windows and Linux (so far). Following Batsching's notes, I installed GD easily, and found it to be every bit as useful and easy to use as he suggests. It is easily the best (= easiest to used and technically most superior) desktop dictionary program I have used. Batsching's ready-made links to Apte's and Macdonell's dictionaries (from DSAL) makes it trivially easy to look up words in those sources. I have added a comment on how to make Golden Dictionary also a front-end for SARIT ( http://sarit.indology.info), so that word-searches in Golden Dictionary can return contextualized results from searching the entire Sanskrit text library in SARIT (large amounts of smrti, artha, purana, ayurveda, and Buddhist tantra text). Apologies for duplication for those of you who already follow the Flammschild blog, but I thought this important enough to draw to the attention of the INDOLOGY readers at large. Best, Dominik Wujastyk -- Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Vienna Austria From athr at LOC.GOV Thu Aug 5 23:16:34 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 10 19:16:34 -0400 Subject: Albrecht Weber bust - not owned by Library of Congress Message-ID: <161227090096.23782.11480898221027477416.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2932 Lines: 35 Back on 08/07/09 (Indology message 032149, "2 requests re images of Albrecht Weber") I requested as many images of Albrecht Weber as possible to help in evaluating a bust in the possession of the Rare Book and Special Collections division that might have been the bust of Albrecht Weber offered along with his library (which LOC purchased) in the printed catalog thereof. The catalog record is at < http://lccn.loc.gov/25011896 >. Checking this out got put on the back burner but today I was taken into the rare book stacks and looked at the bust and it was unquestionably of some other middle-aged dignitary than Weber. The features were quite different, and the subject had short hair and sideburns but no moustache, whereas Weber, in images both from his early maturity and his old age had longish hair in the back, no sideburns, and a moustache. Also, and decisively, it was of marble and signed "J. Q. A. Ward" (John Quincy Adams Ward, a prominent American sculptor of the nineteenth century), whereas the Weber bust bust was of plaster and done by Prof. Johann Uphues. (The Katalog refers to the sculptor as "Prof. Joh. Uphues" although it appears (e.g. < http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Uphues > that he mostly went by "Joseph," although Johann was his second given name, full form Joseph Johann Ludwig Uphues.) The Library's uncataloged collections and its inventory of other stuff (e.g. unused desks and miscellaneous impedimenta) have been gone gone through repeatedly for multiple purposes in the last couple of decades, so it is quite improbable a piece of sculpture would have gone unnoticed. It is most likely therefore that the bust never came to Washington. I suspect that, as I speculated in the earlier posting, Frau Weber retained the bust having avoided a legal obligation to include it with the rest of the library. Or perhaps the Library declined the gift. This may have something to do with the hope expressed on the cover of the Katalog that the collection be kept together under the name "Albrecht-Weber Bibliothek," which the Library did not do, although it stamped "Weber collection" and the Katalog number in each item, and this information is usually included in the old public card catalog and/or the online record. I notice from a Google Images search that Uphues had a number of truly major commissions for public monuments. Does his doing a portrait of Weber indicate how distinguished Weber was thought to be, or that Weber was well enough remunerated to commission a portrait from a major sculptor? If the former, may there once have been a bronze version in the University or some other institution? This might be of interest to some and so I'm putting it on the record. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 From vjroebuck at BTINTERNET.COM Fri Aug 6 05:53:38 2010 From: vjroebuck at BTINTERNET.COM (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 10 06:53:38 +0100 Subject: Dhammapada Day Message-ID: <161227090099.23782.12328709556483060485.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 497 Lines: 12 Dear Colleagues This is to let you know that the Centre for the History of Religion in Asia, Cardiff University, is hosting a Dhammapada Day on 14 September, as a launch event for my new translation. If you would like a programme, please contact me off-list. The book is to be published on 26 August: it's on the Penguin website at Valerie J Roebuck (With apologies for cross-posting) From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Aug 6 09:08:37 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 10 11:08:37 +0200 Subject: The Sampurnanand Sanskrit University is falling down, apparently Message-ID: <161227090102.23782.18346030884480878241.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 109 Lines: 4 http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/varanasi/200-yr-old-building-fated-to-die/articleshow/6262702.cms From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Fri Aug 6 13:32:28 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 10 19:02:28 +0530 Subject: The Sampurnanand Sanskrit University is falling down, apparently In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090106.23782.16073983585402763341.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 573 Lines: 21 I have lost?touch for quite some years. But?there was regular repair work in the seventies and eighties. The undesirable turn of events has to be brought to the notice of the UGC. DB --- On Fri, 6/8/10, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: From: Dominik Wujastyk Subject: [INDOLOGY] The Sampurnanand Sanskrit University is falling down, apparently To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Friday, 6 August, 2010, 9:08 AM http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/varanasi/200-yr-old-building-fated-to-die/articleshow/6262702.cms From h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX Tue Aug 10 00:43:25 2010 From: h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX (Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 10 17:43:25 -0700 Subject: Quest??? In-Reply-To: <33c94.1c20e40f.398b40b8@aol.com> Message-ID: <161227090109.23782.1326365114620524789.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 553 Lines: 28 Honorable Colleagues: Some of you could spend the quotations in the Jains books, where Krishna Vasudeva was listed as one of the Tirthakaras? Also if you have the literal quotations of Lalitavitsara where Krishna also mentions, but in English please? Regards. Lic. M.A. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad Internacional Euroamericana. Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada. Miembro del Instituto de Estudios Filos?ficos de Saltillo A. C. www.uie.edu.es > > > > > > > > > > > From peterfriedlander at YAHOO.COM.AU Tue Aug 10 03:56:54 2010 From: peterfriedlander at YAHOO.COM.AU (Peter Friedlander) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 10 20:56:54 -0700 Subject: Hiragana and Indic Scripts Message-ID: <161227090112.23782.336290134177375774.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 825 Lines: 36 Dear Colleagues, any ideas on leads on Indic script connections with Japanese Hiragana/Katakana scripts? Hiragana/Katakana starts a i u e o ka ki ku ke ko etc. The organization of the Japanese sound system seems related to Indic systems, but Japanese histories of their scripts that I have seen are quite silent on the relationship between Siddham and Kana script systems that I have observed (my current notes on this at http://bodhgayanews.net/melbournehindi/?p=22). I am sure that somebody must have written on this, any idea where? regards Peter Friedlander ---------------------------------------- Dr Peter Friedlander Senior Lecturer in Hindi and Buddhist Studies Asian Studies School of Social Sciences La Trobe University, VIC 3086 Phone: + 61 3 9479 1400 Email: p.friedlander at latrobe.edu.au From vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET Tue Aug 10 09:33:22 2010 From: vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 10 05:33:22 -0400 Subject: Hiragana and Indic Scripts Message-ID: <161227090116.23782.11961916062295504403.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3027 Lines: 69 Dear Peter, As you've discovered the orgins of the kana scripts is still disputed and unclear. Early on, hiragana was considered a script only to be used by women; men were expected to use kanji (Chinese characters). The idea that hiragana primarily developed from a cursive form of Chinese characters is fairly pervasive. See, for instance, http://www.omniglot.com/writing/japanese_hiragana.htm and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiragana And legend (along with many uncritical modern works) considers K?kai (774?835), who established the Shingon (= tantra) school in Japan, to be the creator of the katakana script. There is a poem, or set of gathas, called "Iroha" in Japanese, that offer a summary of the teaching of impermanence from the Nirvana Sutra; the poem employs the full set of katakana, and this poem had been attributed to K?kai who was believed to have devised it as a clever mneumonic, but more recent scholarship has undermined that legend. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroha and http://tinyurl.com/3xx74ko Note that the order of the syllabary was not always in the current order, and that the order of appearance in the Iroha was standard for many centuries. Rearrangement to align it with Sanskrit order might have occurred later as Japanese scholars developed an interest in linguistics and grammar (under German via Dutch influence) and turned to Sanskrit prototypes (via Chinese Buddhist translations) to set this out. You are correct that Siddham script, not Devanagri, would have been familiar to the Japanese. The Sanskrit script studied in China and then subsequently the rest of E. Asia was primarily Siddham. By the time Devanagri was developed, the transmission to China had been disrupted. K?kai spent some time in China studying with translators (including Manichaeans), and, because of the tantric interest in mantras and seed syllables, developed an interest in siddham pronunciation and script (one still finds siddham used in certain Japanese Buddhist cemeteries, etc.). That is probably why he comes to be associated with the development of katakana. One largely unexplored but potentially important source for both hiragana and katakana is Chinese musical notation, especially as developed during the Tang and Song dynasties. What started as Gongche notation ("?" g?ng and "?" ch?) using Chinese characters to represent notes, developed into a cursive form that has many evident overlaps with Japanese kana. On Gongche, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gongche_notation For the more relevant musical notation, see Rulan Chao Pian, _Song Dynasty Musical Sources and Their Interpretation_, Harvard-Yenching, Harvard University Press, 1967, esp. the illustrations following p. 42 and passim. You may also find the following useful for tracking the history of East Asian awareness of Sanskrit sounds and scripts: Chaudhuri, Saroj Kumar, _Siddham in China and Japan_, a monograph published through Victor Mair's Sino-Platonic Papers series. (No. 88, Dec. 1998). Dan Lusthaus From ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU Tue Aug 10 12:47:14 2010 From: ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Paul G. Hackett) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 10 08:47:14 -0400 Subject: Sorting Paragraphs In-Reply-To: <31672514.1281442907668.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail09.arcor-online.net> Message-ID: <161227090122.23782.4552870419110832371.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 826 Lines: 29 Dear Philipp, If you really need to preserve formatting, rather than writing a full RTF-compliant application, it might be easier to simply write a VBA macro with a simple bubble sort to run under Word to perform the same task. Paul Hackett Columbia University At 2:21 PM +0200 8/10/10, Philipp Maas wrote: >Dear Colleagues, > >I am currently preparing a glossary of Sanskrit terms in transliteration, >for which I would like to use a software that sorts paragraphs automatically >in a sequence according to the Sanskrit alphabet. I am working with a >Unicode font and a Windows operating system. The software (share- or freeware >preferred) should be RTF compatible in order to preserve the font formats of >the original file. > >Any suggestions? > >With many thanks in advance and best regards, > >Philipp Maas From phmaas at ARCOR.DE Tue Aug 10 12:21:47 2010 From: phmaas at ARCOR.DE (Philipp Maas) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 10 14:21:47 +0200 Subject: Sorting Paragraphs Message-ID: <161227090119.23782.10084031536868170415.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 495 Lines: 17 Dear Colleagues, I am currently preparing a glossary of Sanskrit terms in transliteration, for which I would like to use a software that sorts paragraphs automatically in a sequence according to the Sanskrit alphabet. I am working with a Unicode font and a Windows operating system. The software (share- or freeware preferred) should be RTF compatible in order to preserve the font formats of the original file. Any suggestions? With many thanks in advance and best regards, Philipp Maas From zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE Tue Aug 10 12:54:24 2010 From: zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE (Robert Zydenbos) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 10 14:54:24 +0200 Subject: Hiragana and Indic Scripts In-Reply-To: <191787.55693.qm@web65710.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227090126.23782.4407918755006292781.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1368 Lines: 37 Apart from what Dan Lusthaus has already mentioned about the established view on the origination of the kana scripts, one should note that Siddham is very 'Indian' in its structure: like all the Brahmi-derived scripts, Siddham is of the script type known as 'abugida' (in which a basic syllabic sign is modified by means of secondary vowel signs to indicate that the vowel of the syllable is not 'a'), and the kana scripts are fundamentally different. RZ Op 10.08.2010, om 05:56 heeft Peter Friedlander het volgende geschreven: > Dear Colleagues, > any ideas on leads on Indic script connections with Japanese > Hiragana/Katakana scripts? > Hiragana/Katakana starts a i u e o ka ki ku ke ko etc. > The organization of the Japanese sound system seems related to Indic > systems, but Japanese histories of their scripts that I have seen > are quite silent on the relationship between Siddham and Kana script > systems that I have observed (my current notes on this at http://bodhgayanews.net/melbournehindi/?p=22) > . > I am sure that somebody must have written on this, any idea where? > regards > > Peter Friedlander Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Department f?r Asienstudien - Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie Universit?t M?nchen Deutschland Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827 Web http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~zydenbos From zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE Tue Aug 10 13:02:04 2010 From: zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE (Robert Zydenbos) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 10 15:02:04 +0200 Subject: Quest??? In-Reply-To: <617906.21462.qm@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227090128.23782.14508069548667844157.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1170 Lines: 35 Jaina literature (as far as I have dealt with it) sees K???a not as a T?rtha?kara, but as a cousin of Nemin?tha , the 22nd T?rtha?kara. See, for instance, B.N. Sumitra Bai and R.J. Zydenbos, "The Jaina Mah?bh?rata", in Arvind Sharma (ed.), Essays on the Mah?bh?rata. Leiden: E.J. Brill, 1991; pp. 251-273. RZ Op 10.08.2010, om 02:43 heeft Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez het volgende geschreven: > Honorable Colleagues: > Some of you could spend the quotations in the Jains books, where > Krishna Vasudeva was listed as one of the Tirthakaras? Also if you > have the literal quotations of Lalitavitsara where Krishna also > mentions, but in English please? > Regards. > Lic. M.A. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez > Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad > Internacional Euroamericana. > Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada. > Miembro del Instituto de Estudios Filos?ficos de Saltillo A. C. > www.uie.edu.es Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Department f?r Asienstudien - Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie Universit?t M?nchen Deutschland Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827 Web http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~zydenbos From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Tue Aug 10 13:21:40 2010 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 10 15:21:40 +0200 Subject: Jaina Krishna Quest In-Reply-To: <617906.21462.qm@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227090131.23782.11821642363878730739.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1101 Lines: 35 See the textual references in Eva De Clercq, "The Jaina Hariva.m/sa and Mahaabhaarata Tradition: a Preliminary Study", pp. 399-421, and Andr? Couture, "The Reception of K.r.s.na's Childhood in Three Jain Sanskrit Texts", pp. 423-445, in Petteri Koskikallio ed. 2009, Parallels and Comparisons: Proceedings of the Fourth Dubrovnik International Conference on the Sanskrit Epics and Puraa.nas, September 2005, Zagreb: Croation Academy of Science and Arts (gen. ed. Mislav Jezic) > Honorable Colleagues: >Some of you could spend the quotations in the >Jains books, where Krishna Vasudeva was listed >as one of the Tirthakaras? Also if you have the >literal quotations of Lalitavitsara where >Krishna also mentions, but in English please? >Regards. >Lic. M.A. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez >Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad >Internacional Euroamericana. >Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada. >Miembro del Instituto de Estudios Filos?ficos de Saltillo A. C. >www.uie.edu.es > -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ From kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Tue Aug 10 13:24:55 2010 From: kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Kellner, Birgit) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 10 15:24:55 +0200 Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] Sorting Paragraphs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090133.23782.3698282847285243622.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1436 Lines: 41 Andrew Glass once had macros available from his website to sort Excel tables according to Unicode-transliterated Sanskrit alphabet. On his website, he now has under "projects" only an on-site sorting utility (http://andrewglass.org/sort.php) - this works with simple lists of words. I'm not sure what it does with paragraphs, though. Birgit Kellner ________________________________________ Von: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] im Auftrag von Paul G. Hackett [ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU] Gesendet: Dienstag, 10. August 2010 14:47 An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sorting Paragraphs Dear Philipp, If you really need to preserve formatting, rather than writing a full RTF-compliant application, it might be easier to simply write a VBA macro with a simple bubble sort to run under Word to perform the same task. Paul Hackett Columbia University At 2:21 PM +0200 8/10/10, Philipp Maas wrote: >Dear Colleagues, > >I am currently preparing a glossary of Sanskrit terms in transliteration, >for which I would like to use a software that sorts paragraphs automatically >in a sequence according to the Sanskrit alphabet. I am working with a >Unicode font and a Windows operating system. The software (share- or freeware >preferred) should be RTF compatible in order to preserve the font formats of >the original file. > >Any suggestions? > >With many thanks in advance and best regards, > >Philipp Maas From kengo.harimoto at UNI-HAMBURG.DE Tue Aug 10 17:45:25 2010 From: kengo.harimoto at UNI-HAMBURG.DE (Kengo Harimoto) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 10 19:45:25 +0200 Subject: Hiragana and Indic Scripts In-Reply-To: <13654A21-571D-4A3D-92E0-9413F65774E9@uni-muenchen.de> Message-ID: <161227090135.23782.5711828742580981048.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2677 Lines: 47 Ah, isn't Siddham simply Siddham?t?k?? I think we should distinguish the scripts (man'yo-kana, hirakana, and katakana) and the order where kanas are arranged (goj?on) in this thread. I doubt Sanskrit (language) or Sidda(m?t?ik?) script has anything to do with the invention of hiragana and katakana (scripts). On the other hand, I always thought that it was well acknowledged that some knowledge of Sanskrit among Buddhist intellectuals contributed in establishing the 50 character table of kanas (goj?on). Note that the original kana was man'yo-kana that simply used existing Chinese characters to represent Japanese sounds. The arrangement of those in a Snaskrit-like order was independent of the invention of hiragana or katakana. (According to the wikipedia articles below, the oldest example of Goj?on predates that of Iroha. And they are apparently written in Man'yo-kana.) Some other things that have been mentioned in this thread I hadn't heard of was that Kukai invented katakana. Rather, I think it is widely believed that he brought Siddham/Siddham?t?k? to Japan, which may indeed be true. Even wikipedia entry on Goj?on seems well informed: http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/??? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goj?on -- Kengo Harimoto On Aug 10, 2010, at 14:54 , Robert Zydenbos wrote: > Apart from what Dan Lusthaus has already mentioned about the established view on the origination of the kana scripts, one should note that Siddham is very 'Indian' in its structure: like all the Brahmi-derived scripts, Siddham is of the script type known as 'abugida' (in which a basic syllabic sign is modified by means of secondary vowel signs to indicate that the vowel of the syllable is not 'a'), and the kana scripts are fundamentally different. > > RZ > > Op 10.08.2010, om 05:56 heeft Peter Friedlander het volgende geschreven: > >> Dear Colleagues, >> any ideas on leads on Indic script connections with Japanese Hiragana/Katakana scripts? >> Hiragana/Katakana starts a i u e o ka ki ku ke ko etc. >> The organization of the Japanese sound system seems related to Indic systems, but Japanese histories of their scripts that I have seen are quite silent on the relationship between Siddham and Kana script systems that I have observed (my current notes on this at http://bodhgayanews.net/melbournehindi/?p=22). >> I am sure that somebody must have written on this, any idea where? >> regards >> >> Peter Friedlander > > > Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos > Department f?r Asienstudien - Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie > Universit?t M?nchen > Deutschland > Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 > Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827 > Web http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~zydenbos From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA Wed Aug 11 13:33:47 2010 From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 10 09:33:47 -0400 Subject: Hiragana and Indic Scripts In-Reply-To: <01f301cb386f$13229570$2101a8c0@Dan> Message-ID: <161227090142.23782.17794274618381821089.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5762 Lines: 152 Dear all, A very learned colleague of mine, to whom I forwarded the discussion about the Hiragana etc. scripts, sent me the following which he has allowed me to forward to the Indology list. However, the list rejected the attachment which were the entries in Prof. Waterhouse's forthcoming book. I am sure he'll answer you directly if you contact him off list. His e-mail is: david. waterhouse at utoronto.ca. Dear Stella, Thank you for these notes: but they are a little confused. I am attaching short historical notes on hiragana and katakana from the Glossary appended to my forthcoming catalogue of prints by Suzuki Harunobu (1725?-70) in the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston. Both kinds of kana derive from Chinese characters; the connexion with K?kai can be dismissed. I do not know when the present arrangement of kana first came into use; but until the Meiji period the most common arrangement was according to the iroha order: which constitutes a rather silly poem using all the syllables once. Older reference books follow this order. K?kai studied an advanced form of Buddhist Tantrism in China, and introduced it to Japan for his Shingon school of Japanese Buddhism. In various of its rituals Shingon uses the siddham (Jap. shittan) script, which derives not from devanagari but from an older form of Gupta script. I have several reference books about it. One often sees it in the inscriptions in Japanese graveyards; and Shingon monks have to study it. Unlike Indic scripts, it is written with a brush, which gives it a more cursive character than devanagari. Its early history in Japan is unclear, but its introduction may go back to the time of K?kai (774-835), Saich? (767-822: founder of the Tendai school) or Ennin (794-864: third head of Tendai), all of whom studied in China. Lastly, I do not see any connexion between kana and musical notation, except that kana themselves are used as a kind of solfa notation, and various other kinds of Chinese and Japanese music notation show the influence of Chinese characters: notably the classical notation for the qin (7-stringed zither). As you may know, the Korean syllabary, a brilliant invention of 15th- century Korean linguists, was directly influenced by Sanskrit phonology, as well as by Chinese; and the shapes of individual letters mirror the position of the tongue. Yours ever, David -- Stella Sandahl ssandahl at sympatico.ca On 10-Aug-10, at 5:33 AM, Dan Lusthaus wrote: > Dear Peter, > > As you've discovered the orgins of the kana scripts is still > disputed and > unclear. > > Early on, hiragana was considered a script only to be used by > women; men > were expected to use kanji (Chinese characters). The idea that > hiragana > primarily developed from a cursive form of Chinese characters is > fairly > pervasive. See, for instance, > > http://www.omniglot.com/writing/japanese_hiragana.htm > and > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiragana > > And legend (along with many uncritical modern works) considers K?kai > (774?835), who established the Shingon (= tantra) school in Japan, > to be > the creator of the katakana script. There is a poem, or set of gathas, > called "Iroha" in Japanese, that offer a summary of the teaching of > impermanence from the Nirvana Sutra; the poem employs the full set of > katakana, and this poem had been attributed to K?kai who was > believed to > have devised it as a clever mneumonic, but more recent scholarship has > undermined that legend. See > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroha > and > http://tinyurl.com/3xx74ko > > Note that the order of the syllabary was not always in the current > order, > and that the order of appearance in the Iroha was standard for many > centuries. Rearrangement to align it with Sanskrit order might have > occurred > later as Japanese scholars developed an interest in linguistics and > grammar > (under German via Dutch influence) and turned to Sanskrit > prototypes (via > Chinese Buddhist translations) to set this out. > > You are correct that Siddham script, not Devanagri, would have been > familiar > to the Japanese. The Sanskrit script studied in China and then > subsequently > the rest of E. Asia was primarily Siddham. By the time Devanagri was > developed, the transmission to China had been disrupted. K?kai > spent some > time in China studying with translators (including Manichaeans), and, > because of the tantric interest in mantras and seed syllables, > developed an > interest in siddham pronunciation and script (one still finds > siddham used > in certain Japanese Buddhist cemeteries, etc.). That is probably > why he > comes to be associated with the development of katakana. > > One largely unexplored but potentially important source for both > hiragana > and katakana is Chinese musical notation, especially as developed > during the > Tang and Song dynasties. What started as Gongche notation ("?" > g?ng and "?" > ch?) using Chinese characters to represent notes, developed into a > cursive > form that has many evident overlaps with Japanese kana. > > On Gongche, see > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gongche_notation > > For the more relevant musical notation, see > > Rulan Chao Pian, _Song Dynasty Musical Sources and Their > Interpretation_, > Harvard-Yenching, Harvard University Press, 1967, esp. the > illustrations > following p. 42 and passim. > > You may also find the following useful for tracking the history of > East > Asian awareness of Sanskrit sounds and scripts: > > Chaudhuri, Saroj Kumar, _Siddham in China and Japan_, a monograph > published > through Victor Mair's Sino-Platonic Papers series. (No. 88, Dec. > 1998). > > Dan Lusthaus > From r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG Wed Aug 11 02:21:00 2010 From: r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 10 14:21:00 +1200 Subject: Sorting Paragraphs Message-ID: <161227090139.23782.15712566000195239918.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1451 Lines: 52 Dear Philipp, It might be worth looking at initially manipulating your material in a simple unicode encoded text file and only later -- once you're happy with what you have -- transfering the material to a RTF file. You might also find this Perl script useful. It will run under any system with Perl and the Sort::ArbBiLex module. Sort utf-8 Sanskrit Arbitrary lexicographic sorting: Sort UTF-8 encoded Romanised Sanskrit. http://indica-et-buddhica.org/sections/repositorium-preview/materials/software/sort-utf8-sanskrit One directory up there is also a script for sorting Wylie translit. Tibetan. Kind regards, Richard On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 02:21:47PM +0200, Philipp Maas wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > I am currently preparing a glossary of Sanskrit terms in transliteration, > for which I would like to use a software that sorts paragraphs automatically > in a sequence according to the Sanskrit alphabet. I am working with a > Unicode font and a Windows operating system. The software (share- or freeware > preferred) should be RTF compatible in order to preserve the font formats of > the original file. > > Any suggestions? > > With many thanks in advance and best regards, > > Philipp Maas > -- Richard MAHONEY Littledene, Bay Road, OXFORD 7430, NZ PO Box 25, OXFORD 7443 +64 3 312 1699 / +64 275 829 986 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org http://indica-et-buddhica.org http://camera-antipodea.indica-et-buddhica.com From vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET Wed Aug 11 18:42:54 2010 From: vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 10 14:42:54 -0400 Subject: Hiragana and Indic Scripts Message-ID: <161227090145.23782.648223258268128181.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1538 Lines: 29 Dear Stella, Thank you for passing on David's comments, with which I concur. As for the role of musical notation, this is not something commonly discussed or recognized in the field -- I noticed it years ago but have never published on it -- so it is not surprising that David would be unaware of it. I don't know any online sources for illustrations of the sort of musical notation that I think needs to be taken into account, though splendid examples can be found in Rulan Chao Pian, _Song Dynasty Musical Sources and Their Interpretation_, Harvard-Yenching, Harvard University Press, 1967, esp. the illustrations following p. 42 and passim (see below). Everyone I have ever shown these to is immediately struck by the overlap with kana and wonders if anyone has ever written on it. So far, no one has. Short of finding a hardcopy of the book, try searching for the book on amazon.com or http://tinyurl.com/288o2yd do the "search inside the book", and then type "yuann cherng shuang" in the search box, and then select page 38. Or type "tsyr song" in the search box, and then select p. 37. You'll see what I mean. best, Dan ----- Original Message ----- Lastly, I do not see any connexion between kana and musical notation, except that kana themselves are used as a kind of solfa notation, and various other kinds of Chinese and Japanese music notation show the influence of Chinese characters: notably the classical notation for the qin (7-stringed zither). David -- Stella Sandahl ssandahl at sympatico.ca From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Thu Aug 12 07:08:14 2010 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 10 09:08:14 +0200 Subject: publication on recent history of indology : Erich Frauwallner Message-ID: <161227090151.23782.7634172100103735610.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3509 Lines: 99 Dear List, a review in the German lanuguage of the book announced below can now be downloaded from: https://www.zora.uzh.ch/35376/ Kindly, WS ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. Publication announcement: Jakob Stuchlik: Der arische Ansatz: Erich Frauwallner und der Nationalsozialismus. 2009 Verlag der ?sterreichischen Akademie der Wissenschaften Austrian Academy of Sciences Press A-1011 Wien, Postgasse 7/4 ISBN 978-3-7001-6724-2 Print Edition ISBN 978-3-7001-6875-1 Online Edition Sitzungsberichte der phil.-hist. Klasse 797.Band 2009, 202 Seiten, 22,5x15cm, broschiert ? 42,? (http://epub.oeaw.ac.at/6724-2, oben links: Online Edition). My fast rendering of publisher's info: The ?Aryan approach? was repeatedly propagated by Erich Frauwallner at the intersection between Indology and society, where it apparently was a matter of presenting the results of detailed Indological research in the form of a compact and ?well-established? image of India to a wider audience. Especially in the Germanspeaking world and in Japan, Frauwallner has gone down in the history of his discipline, above all in the area of Buddhist Studies, as a scholarly authority. This influential scholarly reputation has led to the identification of the India-image presented by Frauwallner as identical with India itself. Since in its basic structure this picture is ?Aryanizing? and racist, it also contributes to the impression of an ?unholy alliance? between India and Nazi Germany. As long as the Nazi context in Frauwallner?s activity as a scholar and teacher is ignored, either by being passed over in silence or by being made to appear harmless, as has been done for decades in the Germanspeaking world, there can be no serious discussion concerning the degree to which ideology encumbers his scholarly and scholarly-political oeuvre. What exactly is being transmitted or inherited when Frauwallner is acclaimed as an authority and his philology considered exemplary scholarly work? In this book, the author examines the ?Aryan approach? not ?only? as a repeatedly presented racist periodization of Indian philosophy, but also as the conceptual key to the scholarly and scholarly-political work, and indeed to the life of a staunch Nazi. In the process, he exposes many facets of dubious dealings with the past, both before and after 1945. The importance of this book for the HISTORY of Indology is clear. Here I would also like to emphasize the indologically most relevant points raised by the author, Dr. Jakob Stuchlik: - that Frauwallner's periodization was a step backward compared to an earlier discussion by Goetz; - and that his approach would have led to an "Ueberbewertung der diskursiven Erkenntnis an der Objektebene seiner Wissenschaft". In addition, a Vorwort by Ernst Steinkellner is available at: steinkellner_vorwort_stuchlik_2009.pdf -------------------------------------------- Prof. Dr. Jan E.M. Houben, Directeur d Etudes ? Sources et Histoire de la Tradition Sanskrite ? Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, SHP, A la Sorbonne,45-47, rue des Ecoles, 75005 Paris -- France. From bill.m.mak at GMAIL.COM Thu Aug 12 05:46:14 2010 From: bill.m.mak at GMAIL.COM (Bill Mak) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 10 14:46:14 +0900 Subject: Hiragana and Indic Scripts In-Reply-To: <191787.55693.qm@web65710.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227090147.23782.8974727644973569957.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1429 Lines: 57 Dear Peter, The most authoritative work on the subject is Mabuchi Kazuo???????? / ???? (1962)'s Nihon Ingakushi no kenkyuu ????????. The three-volumed masterpiece contains numerous references to the questions you raised together with a bewildering mass of materials that worths a lifetime's study. Materials in English on this subject are largely preliminary both in scope and depth, starting with Van Gulik, followed by Chauduri as others had mentioned. Best regards, Bill Mak 2010/8/10 Peter Friedlander > Dear Colleagues, > any ideas on leads on Indic script connections with Japanese > Hiragana/Katakana scripts? > Hiragana/Katakana starts a i u e o ka ki ku ke ko etc. > The organization of the Japanese sound system seems related to Indic > systems, but Japanese histories of their scripts that I have seen are quite > silent on the relationship between Siddham and Kana script systems that I > have observed (my current notes on this at > http://bodhgayanews.net/melbournehindi/?p=22). > I am sure that somebody must have written on this, any idea where? > regards > > Peter Friedlander > ---------------------------------------- > > Dr Peter > Friedlander > > Senior Lecturer in > Hindi and Buddhist Studies > > Asian Studies > > School of Social > Sciences > > La Trobe > University, VIC 3086 > > Phone: + 61 3 9479 > 1400 > > Email: p.friedlander at latrobe.edu.au > > > > > > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Aug 13 12:15:03 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 10 14:15:03 +0200 Subject: T. Bhaskaran passes away Message-ID: <161227090154.23782.7096554403567561381.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3349 Lines: 58 I am sorry to read today that Dr T. Bhaskaran has died. See a report here . In the 1980s, Dr Bhaskaran was Director of the Oriental Manuscript Library and Research Institute, University of Kerala. (On the OMLRI, that many of us will have visited over the years, see here). Amongst his many books, Dr Bhaskaran was particularly proud of his publication, with his successor Dr K. Vijayan, of the facsimile edition of a beautiful illustrated palm-leaf manuscript of the R?m?ya?a, over which he took great pains to ensure high-quality colour reproduction and typesetting (*Chitra Ramayanam*, 1997, published by the University of Kerala, Trivandrum Sanskrit Series no.265, and on CD by CDIT ). Dr Bhaskaran also prepared and published three volumes of the *Alphabetical Index of Sanskrit Manuscripts in the Oriental Research Institute and Manuscripts Library, Univ. of Trivandrum*, that are essential guides to the MS holdings of the library. This series was started with vol.1 (a - na, 6079 works) in 1957 by Suranad Kunjan Pillai, and continued with vol.2 (ta - ma, 7980 works) in 1965 by K. Raghavan Pillai. There the series halted for decades, until Dr Bhaskaran re-enlivened it, finishing off the alphabet (vols 3 & 4, 1984 & 1986, 5253 & 2218 works), and starting a supplemental series (vol.5, 1988, covering 4643 works). Few people in the world can say that they have catalogued 12,000 Sanskrit manuscripts. The impulse of Dr Bhaskaran's diligent cataloguing work directly inspired the library to complete the Supplementary Index in two further volumes (1995, 2000). These seven volumes cover the 35,060 Sanskrit MSS in the library that have been catalogued, amounting to about half the library's total holdings. Dr Bhaskaran was a member of the Ezhava community. He was proud to have been such a leading figure in Sanskrit studies in Kerala, and explained to me a few years ago, when I visited him in his retirement in Aleppey, that the Ezhavas as a group were often quite wrongly categorized merely as toddy-tappers, when in fact many members of their society were physicians and herbalists, as well as Sanskritists. As an example, he cited the famous facsimile inscriptionof 20 April 1675 in the *Hortus Malabaricus* (Amsterdam, 1678-1693) in which the Ezhava Itty Acyutan, "Doctor Malabaricus," wrote about his own contribution to that magisterial work of Dutch botanical science. Dr Bhaskaran was a kind and learned man, who did much quiet and important work for the indological field of studies. Dr Dominik Wujastyk Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Vienna Austria From h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX Fri Aug 13 21:39:41 2010 From: h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX (Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 10 14:39:41 -0700 Subject: Looking for quotes Message-ID: <161227090166.23782.16698728261171484734.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5207 Lines: 129 > De: Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez > Asunto: Looking for quotes > A: "Martin Gansten" > Fecha: viernes, 13 de agosto de 2010, 21:38 > Dear Professors: > I am looking for my Ph D thesis the follow literal quotes > in English from the Jainas and buddhistics sources: > > The most exalted figures in Jainism are the twenty-four > Tirthankaras. Krishna, when he was incorporated into the > Jain list of heroic figures presented a problem with his > activities which are not pacifist or non-violent. The > concept of Baladeva, Vasudeva and Prati-Vasudeva was used to > solve it. The Jain list of sixty-three Shalakapurshas or > notable figures includes amongst others, the twenty-four > Tirthankaras and nine sets of this triad. One of these > triads is Krishna as the Vasudeva, Balarama as the Baladeva > and Jarasandha as the Prati-Vasudeva. He was a cousin of the > twenty-second Tirthankara, Neminatha. The stories of these > triads can be found in the Harivamsha of Jinasena (not be > confused with its namesake, the addendum to Mah?bh?rata) > and the Trishashti-shalakapurusha-charita of > Hemachandra.[97] > > In each age of the Jain cyclic time is born a Vasudeva with > an elder brother termed the Baladeva. The villain is the > Prati-vasudeva. Baladeva is the upholder of the Jain > principle of non-violence. However, Vasudeva has to forsake > this principle to kill the Prati-Vasudeva and save the > world. The Vasudeva then descends to hell as a punishment > for this violent act. Having undergone the punishment he is > then reborn as a Tirthankara.[98][99] > Buddhism > > Depiction of Krishna playing flute in the temple > constructed in AD 752 on the order of Emperor Shomu; > Todai-ji Temple, Great Buddha Hall in Nara, JapanThe story > of Krishna occurs in the Jataka tales in Buddhism,[100] in > the Ghatapandita Jataka as a prince and legendary conqueror > and king of India.[101] In the Buddhist version, Krishna is > called Vasudeva, Kanha and Keshava, and Balarama is his > younger brother, Baladeva. These details resemble that of > the story given in the Bhagavata Purana. Vasudeva, along > with his nine other brothers (each son a powerful wrestler) > and one elder sister (Anjana) capture all of Jambudvipa > (many consider this to be India) after beheading their evil > uncle, King Kamsa, and later all other kings of Jambudvipa > with his Sudarshana Chakra. Much of the story involving the > defeat of Kamsa follows the story given in the Bhagavata > Purana.[102] > > As depicted in the Mah?bh?rata, all of the sons are > eventually killed due to a curse of sage Kanhadipayana (Veda > Vyasa, also known as Krishna Dwaipayana). Krishna himself is > eventually speared by a hunter in the foot by mistake, > leaving the sole survivor of their family being their > sister, Anjanadevi of whom no further mention is made.[103] > > Since Jataka tales are given from the perspective of > Buddha's previous lives (as well as the previous lives of > many of Buddha's followers), Krishna appears as one of the > lives of Sariputra, one of Buddha's foremost disciples and > the "Dhammasenapati" or "Chief General of the Dharma" and is > usually shown being Buddha's "right hand man" in Buddhist > art and iconography.[104] The Bodhisattva, is born in this > tale as one of his youngest brothers named Ghatapandita, and > saves Krishna from the grief of losing his son.[101] The > 'divine boy' Krishna as an embodiment of wisdom and > endearing prankster is forming a part of worshipable > pantheon in Japanese Buddhism.[105] > > ^ Jaini, P.S. (1993). "Jaina Puranas: A Puranic Counter > Tradition". Journal of the American Oriental Society 94: 96. > doi:10.2307/599733. http://books.google.com/books^ Cort, J.E. > (1993). "An Overview of the Jaina Puranas". Journal of the > American Oriental Society 94: 96. doi:10.2307/599733. > http:// > > > Lic. M.A. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez > Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad > Internacional Euroamericana. > Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada. > Miembro del Instituto de Estudios Filos?ficos de Saltillo > A. C. > www.uie.edu.es > > > --- El vie 13-ago-10, Martin Gansten > escribi?: > > > De: Martin Gansten > > Asunto: [INDOLOGY] Looking for Hemaprabha S?ri's > Trailokyaprak?? a (etc.) > > A: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Fecha: viernes, 13 de agosto de 2010, 16:46 > > I have been trying for some time, so > > far unsuccessfully, to procure a copy (printed, > photocopied > > or scanned) of the Trailokyaprak??a by Hemaprabha > S?ri. > > Apart from the edition mentioned by Pingree (New > Delhi > > 1967), I am aware only of a 1980 edition (with Hindi > > translation) published by the Jamnagar Jain Sangh. > > > > Even more elusive is the T?jikatantras?ra (aka > > Ga?akabh??a?a, aka Karmaprak??ik?, aka > > M?nu?yaj?taka) by Samarasi?ha. Here I know of > only one > > edition (with N?laka??ha's > T?jikan?laka??h?, > > Mera?ha 1866). > > > > Any help with locating either of these texts would be > > greatly appreciated. > > > > Martin Gansten > > > > > > From athr at LOC.GOV Fri Aug 13 20:07:46 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 10 16:07:46 -0400 Subject: Looking for Hemaprabha S=?utf-8?Q?=C5=ABri's__Trailokyaprak=C4=81=C5=9B?= a (etc.) In-Reply-To: <4C657701.7040202@pbhome.se> Message-ID: <161227090163.23782.2213521017192659628.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3780 Lines: 89 There is another ed. of the Trailokyaprak??a in the Library of Congress and eight other U.S. libraries. You could request via Interlibrary Loan. LC Control No.: 99946531 Personal Name: Hemaprabhas?uri, 13th cent. Uniform Title: Trailokyaprak?a?sa. Hindi & Sanskrit Main Title: Trailokya prak?a?sa / Hemaprabha S?ur?i?svara J?i pran?ita ; sankalanakartt?a Padma Vijaya Mah?ar?aja Gan?ivarya. Published/Created: Hastin?apura, Meratha, U. Pra. : ?Sr?i Nirgrantha S?ahitya Prak?a?sana Sangha, 1998. Related Names: Padma Vijaya, 1937- Description: lxiv, 188 p. : ill. ; 23 cm. Summary: Verse work, with Hindi translation on Hindu astrology. Notes: Hindi and Sanskrit. Subjects: Hindu astrology--Early works to 1800. Jaina astrology--Early works to 1800. Other System No.: (OCLC) 43356543 CALL NUMBER: BF1714.H5 H3814 1998 Hind Copy 1 -- Request in: Asian Reading Room (Jefferson, LJ150) WorldCat also shows a manuscript of it in Columbia University (OCLC No. 265033641), link to OPAC Clio < http://tinyurl.com/Trailokyaprakasa-ms >. There is a M?nu?yaj?taka, but by Sridhara not Samarasingha, in microfiche in the Library of Congress and Center for Research Libraries: LC Control No.: 94905574 Personal Name: ?Sr?idhara (Son of Jat?a?sankara) Uniform Title: Manusyaj?ataka Main Title: Sat?ikam sodah?aranam Manusyaj?atakam [microform] / [?Sr?idhara viracitam]. Published/Created: Kaly?ana-Mumba?i : "Laksm?ivenkate?svara" Mudran?alaye, 1972 [1915] Related Titles: Manusyaj?atakam. Description: 208 p. ; 18 cm. Summary: Verse work on Hindu astrology; includes explanation in Sanskrit. Notes: In Sanskrit. Master microform held by: DLC. Additional Formats: Microfiche. New Delhi : Library of Congress Office ; Washington, D.C. : Library of Congress Photoduplication Service, 1994. 3 microfiches. Subjects: Hindu astrology. CALL NUMBER: Microfiche 94/61358 (B) So Asia Copy 1 -- Request in: Asian Reading Room (Jefferson, LJ150) -- Status: Not Charged It also can be requested via Interlibrary Loan. Or one can just buy the fiche from our Duplication Services < http://www.loc.gov/preserv/pds/ >. The latter might be quicker and no more expensive. There is also a copy in the Bibliotheque Nationale, according to WorldCat. I have no idea if these are the same work attibuted to different authors. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Martin Gansten Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 12:47 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Looking for Hemaprabha S?ri's Trailokyaprak?? a (etc.) I have been trying for some time, so far unsuccessfully, to procure a copy (printed, photocopied or scanned) of the Trailokyaprak??a by Hemaprabha S?ri. Apart from the edition mentioned by Pingree (New Delhi 1967), I am aware only of a 1980 edition (with Hindi translation) published by the Jamnagar Jain Sangh. Even more elusive is the T?jikatantras?ra (aka Ga?akabh??a?a, aka Karmaprak??ik?, aka M?nu?yaj?taka) by Samarasi?ha. Here I know of only one edition (with N?laka??ha's T?jikan?laka??h?, Mera?ha 1866). Any help with locating either of these texts would be greatly appreciated. Martin Gansten From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Fri Aug 13 16:52:49 2010 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (gthomgt at COMCAST.NET) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 10 16:52:49 +0000 Subject: Hiragana and Indic Scripts In-Reply-To: <168226226.1380620.1281718156943.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <161227090160.23782.8204831187587991876.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1493 Lines: 21 Dear List, I think that the issue here is not really about the influence of Indic scripts on other Asian scripts.? No, it is?rather a question of the influence of?the Sanskrit grammarians on the organization of these other Asian scripts.? What was transmitted to these Asian cultures from India was not a script.??What was transmitted was an awareness?of the remarkable insight of these Sanskrit?grammarians into the?sound system not only of Sanskrit, but of language in general. The Sanskrit grammarians organized the Sanskrit sound system according to a rational system organized from points of articulation in the vocal apparatus, from back formations to front formations.?This applies to vowels first and then to consonants. It is this phonolological insight that has been passed on to other other Asian scholars -- not? a knowledge of scripts per se.? So, I agree with?Kengo Harimoto that it was the logical order of the sounds that was learned from the Sanskrit grammarians, not the script itself. I think that list members may benefit from reading an essay by Frits Staal, who made these points explicit in an excellent paper which has't gotten much attention: "The Sound Pattern of Sanskrit in Asia" ["Sanskrit Studies Centre Journal. An annual publication on any research subject related to Sanskrit". (Sanskrit Studies Centre. Dept. of Oriental Languages. Faculty of Archaeology,Silpakorn, Bangkok, Thailand.) Vol.II (2006) 193-208.] Best wishes, George Thompson From martin.gansten at PBHOME.SE Fri Aug 13 16:46:57 2010 From: martin.gansten at PBHOME.SE (Martin Gansten) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 10 18:46:57 +0200 Subject: Looking for Hemaprabha S=?UTF-8?Q?=C5=ABri's_Trailokyaprak=C4=81=C5=9B?= a (etc.) Message-ID: <161227090157.23782.3037469228600680010.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 615 Lines: 16 I have been trying for some time, so far unsuccessfully, to procure a copy (printed, photocopied or scanned) of the Trailokyaprak??a by Hemaprabha S?ri. Apart from the edition mentioned by Pingree (New Delhi 1967), I am aware only of a 1980 edition (with Hindi translation) published by the Jamnagar Jain Sangh. Even more elusive is the T?jikatantras?ra (aka Ga?akabh??a?a, aka Karmaprak??ik?, aka M?nu?yaj?taka) by Samarasi?ha. Here I know of only one edition (with N?laka??ha's T?jikan?laka??h?, Mera?ha 1866). Any help with locating either of these texts would be greatly appreciated. Martin Gansten From harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Aug 14 11:15:05 2010 From: harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM (Harsha Dehejia) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 10 11:15:05 +0000 Subject: Ananda Message-ID: <161227090169.23782.4186485307620364801.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 407 Lines: 33 Friends~ The idea that ananda or bliss is not individual but universal is deep in the Indian tradition. The Buddhists draw on this in their concept of nirvana. The shanti path which says "sarve skhina bhavatu etc" does enunciate this concept. Is there any other sutra that defines ananda as being universal? Regards. Harsha. Harsha V. Dehejia Ottawa, ON., Canada. From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Sun Aug 15 12:13:06 2010 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 10 14:13:06 +0200 Subject: Fw: Hanxleden's Grammatica Grandonica Message-ID: <161227090172.23782.10427532450468373043.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1386 Lines: 28 Forwarded to the list on behalf of Paolo Aranha: >As I have a general interest in whatever concerns the history of Catholic missions to India during the early modern age, I immediately went from Rome (where I live) to the Carmelite Convent of San Silvestro in Montecompatri so as to see this precious manuscript. The Carmelite Fathers have kindly allowed all the few scholars who have come to Montecompatri to take photoreproductions of this manuscripts. Moreover, they have also specified to me that they would be happy if this manuscript could be available online. I am confident that the indological research team of Dr. Van Hal will take care of publishing the manuscript in a professional academic website. In order to simplify furthermore the access to this pdf preliminary version, I have linked it also to the Wikipedia (English) page devoted to Hanxleden. In case you want to share this document with other scholars, it is sufficient that you send them this link only: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Ernst_Hanxleden. Paolo Aranha European University Institute Department of History and Civilization Via Boccaccio 121 50133 Firenze paolo.aranha at eui.eu paolo.aranha at gmail.com Cell. (Italia): +39 320 6062555 www.eui.eu Best, WS ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Tue Aug 17 15:01:28 2010 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 10 11:01:28 -0400 Subject: Anusv=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81ra?= versus bindu? Message-ID: <161227090174.23782.2273989059680444314.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 874 Lines: 15 Dear Indologists, I recite the Ga?e?aa Atharva??r?a everyday since my childhood, but I had not previously thought about some of the lines in it: gak?ra? p?rvar?pam / ak?ro madhyamar?pam / anusv?ra? c?ntyar?pam / bindur uttarar?pam / n?da? sandh?nam / sa?hit? sandhi? /. While the anusv?ra is considered to be antya, the bindu is considered to be uttara. Is there any (t?ntric?) explanation to split the anusv?ra and the bindu. I always thought that bindu is simply a graphic representation for the anusv?ra, as is seen in some grammars of Skt: upari???d bindur anusv?ra?. How would one distinguish antya from uttara in these lines? Any suggestions? Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Tue Aug 17 16:54:48 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 10 22:24:48 +0530 Subject: Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Anusv=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81ra?= versus bindu? Message-ID: <161227090177.23782.2464804928326841852.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1775 Lines: 47 --- On Tue, 17/8/10, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Anusv?ra versus bindu? To: "MadhavDeshpande" Date: Tuesday, 17 August, 2010, 4:53 PM Prayers vary from region to region. Still, the setting makes it appear that the first three sentences pertain to the m?tr?k? but after that, from anusv?ra, the prayer pertains to the process ie the significance of anusv?ra etc. If this is correct bindu is the thing and not the written representaion. In ??kt?gama bindu is the neuter unconscious element of the triratna. Best DB ? --- On Tue, 17/8/10, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: From: Deshpande, Madhav Subject: [INDOLOGY] Anusv?ra versus bindu? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 17 August, 2010, 3:01 PM Dear Indologists, ? ???I recite the Ga?e?aa Atharva??r?a everyday since my childhood, but I had not previously thought about some of the lines in it:? gak?ra? p?rvar?pam / ak?ro madhyamar?pam / anusv?ra? c?ntyar?pam / bindur uttarar?pam / n?da? sandh?nam / sa?hit? sandhi? /.? While the anusv?ra is considered to be antya, the bindu is considered to be uttara.? Is there any (t?ntric?) explanation to split the anusv?ra and the bindu.? I always thought that bindu is simply a graphic representation for the anusv?ra, as is seen in some grammars of Skt:? upari???d bindur anusv?ra?.? How would one distinguish antya from uttara in these lines?? Any suggestions? Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Wed Aug 18 22:51:20 2010 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 10 18:51:20 -0400 Subject: URL for the Online New Catalogus Catalogorum Message-ID: <161227090180.23782.13677372478183296697.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 496 Lines: 13 Dear Indologists, Previously, the URL (http://results2.ap.nic.in/general/s1/index.html) used to open the website of the online version of the New Catalogus Catalogorum, but it is no longer opening. Does anyone know a functioning URL to get to this website? Thanks for your attention. Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Sun Aug 22 18:58:40 2010 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 10 11:58:40 -0700 Subject: Skt text of Skanda-puraa.na 7.1.11.88-89 Message-ID: <161227090183.23782.4686013720108201821.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 988 Lines: 13 I do not at present have access to the Prabhaasa-kha.nda of the Skanda-puraa.na. It seems to have been counted as the seventh kha.n.da in at least some of the editions. The verse of which I need the original text is specified as Skanda Puraa.na 7.1.11.88-89 in one of my sources of information. A part of the text is said to be pratya:ngam iva nirmitam. In the translation by G.V. Tagare in the MLBD Puraa.na tr series, vol. 67 pt. XiX, p. 71, where VII.I.11 is specified, verses 88-89 have been translated as follows: "After deciding to go to her father's house, the lady of great renown looked at her own reflection (Chaayaa), which appeared to be made similar to her in every limb. Seeing that divine being in front of her, her own Ch?y?, she spoke these words:" If any of you have access to the relevant kha.n.da of the Skanda Puraa.na, kindly let me know how the Skt original of these lines reads. The context is that of the story of Sa.mj;naa. Thanks. ashok aklujkar From paolo.magnone at UNICATT.IT Sun Aug 22 19:14:58 2010 From: paolo.magnone at UNICATT.IT (Paolo Magnone) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 10 21:14:58 +0200 Subject: Skt text of Skanda-puraa.na 7.1.11.88-89 In-Reply-To: <34C82226-57F9-410C-8FF1-464630A5D1D6@ubc.ca> Message-ID: <161227090185.23782.16303899124256033077.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1425 Lines: 29 Dear Ashok, The text of the Ve?ka?e?vara edition (VII, 1, 11) runs as follows: ??? ???????? ?????? ??????????????????? ? ???????????????? ??????????? ?????????? ? ?? ? ??????? ????????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ????????????? ? ?? ? Paolo Magnone Sanskrit Language and Literature Catholic University of Milan Jambudvipa - Indology and Sanskrit Studies (www.jambudvipa.net) On 22/08/2010 20.58, Ashok Aklujkar wrote: > I do not at present have access to the Prabhaasa-kha.nda of the Skanda-puraa.na. It seems to have been counted as the seventh kha.n.da in at least some of the editions. The verse of which I need the original text is specified as Skanda Puraa.na 7.1.11.88-89 in one of my sources of information. A part of the text is said to be pratya:ngam iva nirmitam. > > In the translation by G.V. Tagare in the MLBD Puraa.na tr series, vol. 67 pt. XiX, p. 71, where VII.I.11 is specified, verses 88-89 have been translated as follows: > "After deciding to go to her father's house, the lady of great renown looked at her own reflection (Chaayaa), which appeared to be made similar to her in every limb. Seeing that divine being in front of her, her own Ch?y?, she spoke these words:" > > If any of you have access to the relevant kha.n.da of the Skanda Puraa.na, kindly let me know how the Skt original of these lines reads. The context is that of the story of Sa.mj;naa. > > Thanks. > > ashok aklujkar From rmanring at INDIANA.EDU Mon Aug 23 14:04:08 2010 From: rmanring at INDIANA.EDU (Manring, Rebecca) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 10 14:04:08 +0000 Subject: searchable indices? In-Reply-To: <4C717732.8070906@unicatt.it> Message-ID: <161227090188.23782.16551833083877568583.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 785 Lines: 21 Dear Colleagues, I'm polishing up a manuscript to send off for publication in the next few days, and there are still a few text citations in the work I'm translating, that I haven't been able to identify. Does anyone know of any on-line searchable collections of puranic, etc. materials that I may have overlooked? I've managed (in our library here at Indiana) to search the Caitanya Caritamrta, the Bhagavata Purana, the Padma Purana, Brahmanda Purana, Vamana Purana and Visnu Mahapurana, as well as the Caitanya Candrodaya Nataka, and found a few of these mystery citations, but a couple still have me stumped. Thank you, Rebecca J. Manring Acting Director India Studies Program and Associate Professor India Studies and Religious Studies Indiana University-Bloomington From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Aug 23 20:48:10 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 10 22:48:10 +0200 Subject: searchable indices? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090190.23782.18196576511338940343.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 269 Lines: 13 You can download GRETILand search it locally on your hard disk. SARIT is a searchable collection of online Skt texts that includes the Brahmapurana. Best, Dominik Wujastyk From andra.kleb at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Mon Aug 23 21:06:11 2010 From: andra.kleb at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (Andrey Klebanov) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 10 23:06:11 +0200 Subject: searchable indices? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090192.23782.11693600807547808409.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 439 Lines: 23 and Oliver Hellwig's http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/index.php Andrey Klebanov On 23.08.2010, at 22:48, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > You can download > GRETILand > search it locally on your hard disk. > > SARIT is a searchable collection of online Skt > texts that includes the Brahmapurana. > > Best, > > Dominik Wujastyk From mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU Tue Aug 24 07:19:49 2010 From: mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU (Michael Slouber) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 10 09:19:49 +0200 Subject: searchable indices? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090200.23782.6970273784077017088.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 415 Lines: 18 Is is possible to batch download some or all of the GRETIL etexts? On Aug 23, 2010, at 10:48 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > You can download > GRETILand > search it locally on your hard disk. > > SARIT is a searchable collection of online Skt > texts that includes the Brahmapurana. > > Best, > > Dominik Wujastyk From daniel at DANIELSTENDER.COM Tue Aug 24 08:14:35 2010 From: daniel at DANIELSTENDER.COM (Daniel Stender) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 10 10:14:35 +0200 Subject: searchable indices? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090202.23782.4001544100811846093.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 679 Lines: 22 Discussion proposal: an accessable standardized, comprehensive and searchable corpus of Sanskrit texts is urgently needed like the humanists/greek scholars have it for example (indeed they have some for running software over etc.). Forces have to be bundled. I think that SARIT is the most promising approach so far. Greetings, Daniel Stender On 23.08.2010 22:48, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > You can download > GRETILand > search it locally on your hard disk. > > SARIT is a searchable collection of online Skt > texts that includes the Brahmapurana. > > Best, > > Dominik Wujastyk From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Tue Aug 24 05:17:07 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 10 10:47:07 +0530 Subject: madness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090197.23782.2552800923638113886.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 774 Lines: 41 I think AAyurveda is not meant. It extensively deals with madness . Best DB --- On Tue, 24/8/10, patrick mccartney wrote: From: patrick mccartney Subject: [INDOLOGY] madness To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 24 August, 2010, 4:07 AM Dear List, Does anyone know if the diagnosis &? treatment of madness/ mental illness is prescribed in the dharma??stra corpus? I am interested in any *legal* definition and its application which may be separate from any mention in the? Ayurvedic a?gas of bh?ta vidya and manovij??n. Thanks, -- Patrick McCartney - PO Box? 704 Walkerville South Australia 5081 SKYPE:? cranky-mechanic ?? ????? ??????? tava hRdayaM anugaccha Follow your heart From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Aug 24 11:19:56 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 10 13:19:56 +0200 Subject: searchable indices? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090205.23782.6875794732558290232.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1241 Lines: 45 Actually, one can search GRETIL in situ by using a Google Search of the following type: - site:http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/ ?c?rya Running the above search gave me this result . The "site:" prefix tells Google to restrict its search to a particular web site. So the above searches for "?c?rya" anywhere on the Goettingen site / ebene_1 D Dr Dominik Wujastyk Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Vienna Austria -- Long-term email address: wujastyk at gmail.com PGP key: http://wujastyk.net/pgp.html -- Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of storage free. https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTIzNzI2MTY5 On 23 August 2010 22:48, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > You can download GRETILand search it locally on your hard disk. > > SARIT is a searchable collection of online > Skt texts that includes the Brahmapurana. > > Best, > > Dominik Wujastyk > > From hopeforageneration at GMAIL.COM Tue Aug 24 04:07:16 2010 From: hopeforageneration at GMAIL.COM (patrick mccartney) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 10 13:37:16 +0930 Subject: madness Message-ID: <161227090195.23782.9162155107266956027.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 451 Lines: 25 Dear List, Does anyone know if the diagnosis & treatment of madness/ mental illness is prescribed in the dharma??stra corpus? I am interested in any *legal* definition and its application which may be separate from any mention in the Ayurvedic a?gas of bh?ta vidya and manovij??n. Thanks, -- Patrick McCartney - PO Box 704 Walkerville South Australia 5081 SKYPE: cranky-mechanic ?? ????? ??????? tava hRdayaM anugaccha Follow your heart From mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU Tue Aug 24 11:39:22 2010 From: mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU (Michael Slouber) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 10 13:39:22 +0200 Subject: searchable indices? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090208.23782.3948804992281249575.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1692 Lines: 51 That is helpful, but not ideal. Offline we can do all kinds of useful searching with plain text files, but Google seems to index only by word, which it judges by spaces or period marks. So your search does not actually turn up all of the cases of ?c?rya, only the ones where it is followed by a space or period. On Aug 24, 2010, at 1:19 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Actually, one can search GRETIL in situ by using a Google Search of the > following type: > > - site:http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/ ?c?rya > > Running the above search gave me this > result > . > > The "site:" prefix tells Google to restrict its search to a particular web > site. So the above searches for "?c?rya" anywhere on the Goettingen site / > ebene_1 > > D > > Dr Dominik Wujastyk > Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde > Universit?t Wien > Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 > A-1090 Vienna > Austria > -- > Long-term email address: wujastyk at gmail.com > PGP key: http://wujastyk.net/pgp.html > -- > Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of > storage free. > https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTIzNzI2MTY5 > > > On 23 August 2010 22:48, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > >> You can download GRETILand search it locally on your hard disk. >> >> SARIT is a searchable collection of online >> Skt texts that includes the Brahmapurana. >> >> Best, >> >> Dominik Wujastyk >> >> From mark.allon at SYDNEY.EDU.AU Wed Aug 25 03:07:46 2010 From: mark.allon at SYDNEY.EDU.AU (Mark Allon) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 10 13:07:46 +1000 Subject: Lecturer in East Asian Buddhism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090210.23782.4551801213686158185.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2175 Lines: 28 LECTURER IN EAST ASIAN BUDDHISM FACULTY OF ARTS, SCHOOL OF LANGUAGES AND CULTURE UNIVERSITY OF SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA REFERENCE NO. 1295/0510 The Buddhist Studies program within the School of Languages and Culture at the University of Sydney is an innovative program covering the full spectrum of Buddhist culture and practice, as well as language studies. The program has recently been expanded through the addition of an East Asian Buddhism teaching and research curricula. We are seeking to appoint a Lecturer in East Asian Buddhism to drive the teaching and research excellence of the program as it expands to become one of the leading institutions providing the most comprehensive Buddhist Studies program. The minimum requirements are: PhD qualified in Buddhist Studies with a specialisation in Chinese Buddhism; ability to teach into language and non-language programs, that is, Classical and/or Buddhist Chinese and Chinese Buddhist thought and practice; experience in, and commitment to, teaching using Chinese language materials (and ideally, Sanskrit, Pali and Tibetan materials); experience in taking responsibility for and coordinating units of study in Chinese and Buddhist studies and a willingness to engage in group/collaborative teaching; a proven research and publication record in the field of Chinese Buddhism; capacity to teach and supervise students from various cultural backgrounds; ability and willingness to contribute to School and Faculty administrative activities. The position is full-time continuing subject to the completion of a satisfactory probation period for new appointees. CLOSING DATE: 21st September 2010 For full details visit http://sydney.edu.au/positions/ and search by the reference number (1295/0510) or see http://usyd.nga.net.au/cp/index.cfm?event=jobs.checkJobDetailsNewApplication&returnToEvent=jobs.processJobSearch&jobid=596e6392-42a3-5889-e885-5b68e6b4d128&jobsListKey=d007fa2f-5af3-4db2-b831-98938d03d80d&persistVariables=jobsListKey,JobID Dr Mark Allon Chair, Department of Indian Subcontinental Studies University of Sydney Woolley Building A20 Sydney NSW 2006, Australia Phone 02-93513891; fax 02-93512319 From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Aug 27 07:19:56 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 10 09:19:56 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Indices of Sanskrit Texts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090214.23782.12888017993548950380.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3007 Lines: 68 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Harry Spier Date: 27 August 2010 02:19 Subject: Re: Indices of Sanskrit Texts Re: Searchable Indices of Sanskrit Texts Dear list members, The digital library of the Muktabodha Indological Research Institutes www.muktabodha.org contains around two hundred searchable medieval religious texts (mostly Tantric and Agamic). It contains a very powerful search engine that allows you to search for either simple words, expressions or complex patterns of words in both Kyoto-Harvard and Velthuis transliterations. The search engine brings up all the lines in the texts where the search pattern was found and clicking on a line brings up the full text at the highlighted line. For example, recently Madhav Deshpande asked on the list a question about anusvAra and bindu. By searching in the Muktabodha digital library with the search pattern *<((nusvAr).*(bind))|((bind).*(nusvAr))> * This will give you about 25 references in 7 different tantric texts to where anusvAra and bindu are mentioned in the same sentence in tantric texts. You can then click on any references you are interested in and the e-text will come up at the correct location. This is a complex search pattern but you can do much simpler searchs and with practice the "regular expression" syntax becomes easy. The *< >*in *<((nusvAr).*(bind))|((bind).*(nusvAr))> *means you are using Harvard-Kyoto I.e. everything between < and > is Harvard-Kyoto. If you wish to use Velthuis then you put the search pattern between *{ *and *}*. *(nusvAr).*(bind) *means all sentences containing both nusvAr and bind no matter how separate in the same sentence(I'm truncating the words so you get them whatever the sandhi *(bind).*(nusvAr) *means all sentences containing both bind and nusvAr no matter how separate in the same sentence. The *| *means search for both patterns and the *( )*'s are just a simple way of separating items in the search pattern. These are whats known as a "regular expression" search pattern. *.** means there may be letters between the items searched for. The beauty of "regular expression" search patterns is that you can search for variations. For example above I'm searching not only for where bindu follows anusvAra but also where anusvAra follows bindu. I've always thought that a "regular expression" search engine could be an extremely valuable tool in Indological research. To use another example, a few years back on the Yahoo Indology list Michael Witzel indicated that the high frequency of "ha" at pada final in the Uttarakhanda of the Ramayana showed that that khanda was relatively late in response to someones question. It was very easy to find all lines with "ha" and also all pada final "ha" with a regular expression search engine to get a relative count of its position in the pada. (in that particular case it was the search engine of a programmers editor that was used). Regards, Harry Spier Muktabodha From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Aug 27 09:34:20 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 10 11:34:20 +0200 Subject: Major grant awarded for Sanskrit digital resources Message-ID: <161227090217.23782.11653512057572757321.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 900 Lines: 22 > > National Endowment for the Humanities and the German Research Foundation > award $1.67 million to international digital humanities projects > *"WASHINGTON (July 20, 2010)?The National Endowment for the Humanities > (NEH) today announced $897,000 in grants for five international digital > humanities projects, in partnership with the German Research Foundation > (Deutsche Forschungsgemeinschaft, DFG), which contributed approximately > $772,000.* > * * > * The NEH/DFG Enriching Digital Collections Grants support collaborations > between U.S. and German scholars to develop digitization projects that will > benefit research in the humanities. Each project was sponsored jointly by an > American and a German institution, whose activities will be funded by NEH > and DFG respectively.* > Full text here: http://archiv.twoday.net/stories/6482736/ From athr at LOC.GOV Fri Aug 27 18:13:18 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 10 14:13:18 -0400 Subject: question re LC Padma=?utf-8?Q?=CC=84vata?= Message-ID: <161227090219.23782.6769719487436714166.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 505 Lines: 18 If the person who contacted me with questions about the illustrations to the Library of Congress ms of Padmavata (Padmavati, Padumavati) is on the list, could they please contact me again? In switching from one email system to another our archives have become inaccessible and I have lost the message. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Aug 27 18:17:24 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 10 20:17:24 +0200 Subject: Sanskrit texts in TEI/XML format available from SARIT Message-ID: <161227090222.23782.11080849171331378909.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2045 Lines: 53 I am pleased to announce that the SARIT project is now releasing the TEI-encoded base files of five major Sanskrit works. The Text Encoding Initiative (TEI) is a consortium which collectively develops and maintains a standard for the representation of texts in digital form. The texts are: 1. Brahmapurana 2. Naradasmriti 3. Astangahrdayasamita / Vagbhata 4. Arthasastra / Kautalya 5. Manusmrti These are all relatively long works, giving a good and varied sampling of vocabulary. The TEI-encoded texts can be downloaded from - http://sarit.indology.info/downloads.shtml where the HTML and PDF versions have been available for some time. The PostScript versions have been withdrawn. These files give excellent, high-quality examples of how to go about preparing a TEI-compliant file of a Sanskrit text. Copyright issues have been checked and the files can be distributed free of charge for scholarly purposes. If you are new to the world of the eXtensible Markup Language and XMLfiles and TEI-encoding, one way to get started is to find an XML-aware editing program . There are many available, some are free: there's a comparative table here. The oXygen XML editor is widely liked and is cheap ($64) for scholarly use. It can be downloaded and tried out free. It is a Java application, so it can run in Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux. For more advanced users, please feel free to integrated these TEI files into your own scholarly projects or databases. If you develop further tagging or text-enrichment, SARIT would be glad to have the enhanced TEI files to add to the repository. The preparation of these files was made possible by funding from the British Academy and the British Association of South Asian Studies . Enjoy. Dr Dominik Wujastyk http://SARIT.indology.info From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sat Aug 28 06:58:56 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 10 08:58:56 +0200 Subject: Sanskrit texts in TEI/XML format available from SARIT In-Reply-To: <20100828061216.GN29548@proliant.indica-et-buddhica.org> Message-ID: <161227090228.23782.691004659369139384.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2463 Lines: 79 Richard mentions Christian Wedemeyer's *Cary?mel?pakaprad?pa* e-text. We've tried negotiating with Christian's publisher about this, but unfortunately received no answer. They gave permission for the file to be in the SARIT database as a searchable text, but not for the public distribution of HTML, XML or PDF versions. I live in hope. Best, Dominik SARIT.indology.info On 28 August 2010 08:12, Richard MAHONEY wrote: > Dear All, > > On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 08:17:24PM +0200, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > > I am pleased to announce that the SARIT project is now releasing the > > TEI-encoded base files of five major Sanskrit works. > > ... > > > These are all relatively long works, giving a good and varied > > sampling of vocabulary. The TEI-encoded texts can be downloaded > > from > > > > - http://sarit.indology.info/downloads.shtml > > ... > > > These files give excellent, high-quality examples of how to go about > > preparing a TEI-compliant file of a Sanskrit text. Copyright issues > > have been checked and the files can be distributed free of charge > > for scholarly purposes. > > ... > > > The preparation of these files was made possible by funding from the > > British Academy and the British Association of South Asian Studies. > > It is good to see that the British Academy &c. have kindly given > permission for these files to be publicly available. I enjoyed working > with these materials so it's pleasing that everyone now has full > access. (Although the most challenging text of all -- Christian's > Cary?mel?pakaprad?pa -- does not yet seem to be available?) I would > like to thank Dominik, Shelly, Patrick and Birgit for releasing this > material. > > I would also like to take this opportunity to say that while I am no > longer with the SARIT Project I still remain open to helping with > other digital projects. If you are considering something, or if you > would just like to have a chat about possibilities, please feel free > to get in touch. My contact details can be found here: > > Richard Mahoney :: Who runs IeB? > http://indica-et-buddhica.org/sections/about-ieb/faq/who-runs-site > > > > Kind regards, > > Richard > > > > -- > Richard MAHONEY > > Littledene, Bay Road, OXFORD 7430, NZ > PO Box 25, OXFORD 7443 > +64 3 312 1699 / +64 275 829 986 > r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org > http://indica-et-buddhica.org > http://camera-antipodea.indica-et-buddhica.com > From r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG Sat Aug 28 06:12:16 2010 From: r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 10 18:12:16 +1200 Subject: Sanskrit texts in TEI/XML format available from SARIT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090225.23782.4783697808122344425.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1898 Lines: 64 Dear All, On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 08:17:24PM +0200, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > I am pleased to announce that the SARIT project is now releasing the > TEI-encoded base files of five major Sanskrit works. ... > These are all relatively long works, giving a good and varied > sampling of vocabulary. The TEI-encoded texts can be downloaded > from > > - http://sarit.indology.info/downloads.shtml ... > These files give excellent, high-quality examples of how to go about > preparing a TEI-compliant file of a Sanskrit text. Copyright issues > have been checked and the files can be distributed free of charge > for scholarly purposes. ... > The preparation of these files was made possible by funding from the > British Academy and the British Association of South Asian Studies. It is good to see that the British Academy &c. have kindly given permission for these files to be publicly available. I enjoyed working with these materials so it's pleasing that everyone now has full access. (Although the most challenging text of all -- Christian's Cary?mel?pakaprad?pa -- does not yet seem to be available?) I would like to thank Dominik, Shelly, Patrick and Birgit for releasing this material. I would also like to take this opportunity to say that while I am no longer with the SARIT Project I still remain open to helping with other digital projects. If you are considering something, or if you would just like to have a chat about possibilities, please feel free to get in touch. My contact details can be found here: Richard Mahoney :: Who runs IeB? http://indica-et-buddhica.org/sections/about-ieb/faq/who-runs-site Kind regards, Richard -- Richard MAHONEY Littledene, Bay Road, OXFORD 7430, NZ PO Box 25, OXFORD 7443 +64 3 312 1699 / +64 275 829 986 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org http://indica-et-buddhica.org http://camera-antipodea.indica-et-buddhica.com From jmdelire at ULB.AC.BE Sun Aug 29 14:13:51 2010 From: jmdelire at ULB.AC.BE (Jean-Michel Delire) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 10 16:13:51 +0200 Subject: Andreas Strobl letters Message-ID: <161227090231.23782.16336306230461209957.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1031 Lines: 11 Dear Members of the list, I am looking for informations about the Jesuits astronomers who worked in India, and especially about a Bavarian Jesuit called Andreas Strobl (1703-c.1770). Some of his letters are edited in the fifth volume of Joseph St?cklein's Neue Welt-bott. Unhappily, I can't find more than the two first volumes of this book in Belgium and even the British Library has only the four first ones. Could anyone tell me (please understand after checking, for the libraries' descriptions are not always very clear about the volumes they have) which Library has this volume ? I would also be very happy to know if copies are possible (the books are old), at a not too expansive rate. I am especially interested by the letters having numbers 641, 642, 647 to 650, 806 and 807 (all the letters in Der Neue Welt-bott are listed chronologically by a number). Thank you very much for your help, Dr Jean Michel Delire, Lecturer in 'Science and civilization in India - Sanskrit texts' at the IHEb (University of Brussels) From athr at LOC.GOV Mon Aug 30 21:30:39 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 10 17:30:39 -0400 Subject: Andreas Strobl letters In-Reply-To: <224724c7a6b1ff1f4e@wm-srv.ulb.ac.be> Message-ID: <161227090234.23782.2708910629087304542.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2307 Lines: 39 The Library of Congress copy < http://lccn.loc.gov/unk83065507 > is "36 parts in 5 vols.," and gives the date as 1726-1758. Does this sound complete to you? WorldCat (OCLC Accession Number 649514243) shows a copy in the Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin that goes a bit more extensive, namely "Bd. 1.1726 - 5.1758/61 = T. 1-38[?]." The word office" after the LOC call number means it's in the Rare Book room. Getting the letters copied would probably have to be done by our Duplication Service rather than by me on a photocopy machine. Duplication's charges can be seen off of its homepage < http://www.loc.gov/preserv/pds/ >. It's possible that they and the Rare Book staff would permit me or one of our student assistants to shoot the letters with a digital camera. I suspect Duplication's charges would still be less than European institutions'. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Jean-Michel Delire Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 10:14 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Andreas Strobl letters Dear Members of the list, I am looking for informations about the Jesuits astronomers who worked in India, and especially about a Bavarian Jesuit called Andreas Strobl (1703-c.1770). Some of his letters are edited in the fifth volume of Joseph St?cklein's Neue Welt-bott. Unhappily, I can't find more than the two first volumes of this book in Belgium and even the British Library has only the four first ones. Could anyone tell me (please understand after checking, for the libraries' descriptions are not always very clear about the volumes they have) which Library has this volume ? I would also be very happy to know if copies are possible (the books are old), at a not too expansive rate. I am especially interested by the letters having numbers 641, 642, 647 to 650, 806 and 807 (all the letters in Der Neue Welt-bott are listed chronologically by a number). Thank you very much for your help, Dr Jean Michel Delire, Lecturer in 'Science and civilization in India - Sanskrit texts' at the IHEb (University of Brussels) From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Tue Aug 31 14:44:41 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 10 09:44:41 -0500 Subject: Raamapaalacarita In-Reply-To: <99590C9FED3040A6A1834C575D7416CD@SlajePC> Message-ID: <161227090239.23782.7235915336230625827.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 426 Lines: 16 Is there an electronic edition of the JASB [I've not been able to find one], or does anyone out there possess a scan of Sandhaakara Nandii's Raamapaalacarita, published therein by H.P. Shastri in 1910? With thanks in advance for any assistance offered. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Tue Aug 31 15:25:29 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 10 10:25:29 -0500 Subject: Raamapaalacarita In-Reply-To: <20100831094441.AAJ10625@mstore02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227090242.23782.8229357378868031581.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 410 Lines: 15 A subscriber to the list has done me the favor of sending me a pdf almost instantaneously. (Sometimes Indology is a real cintaama.niratna!) Thanks to any who may have formed the intention, but no need now to ask you to go to any trouble. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Tue Aug 31 12:39:36 2010 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 10 14:39:36 +0200 Subject: Booklet Publication Announcement Message-ID: <161227090237.23782.5283874375473409774.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2037 Lines: 102 Walter Slaje, "N?ti n?ti". On the meaning of an Upani?adic citation of some renown in Hindu texts and Western minds. (Akademie der Wissenschaften und der Literatur. Geistes- und sozialwissenschaftliche Klasse. Jahrgang 2010, Nr. 4). Mainz 2010. 52 S. EUR 10,-- ISBN 978-3-515-09799-4 Contents Overview 1 Translational history of n?ti n?ti 1.1 Background 1.2 Exaltation 1.3 ?a?kara 1.4 Modern Philology 1.4.1 n?ti n?ti: a pair of duplicate negative expressions 1.4.1.1 Construing in line with ?a?kara 1.4.1.2 Construing independently 1.4.1.3 Amalgamations 1.4.2 n?ti n?ti as a syntagm with a positive meaning 1.4.2.1 Alfred Hillebrandt 1.4.2.2 Karl Friedrich Geldner 2 The n?ti n?ti passages in the B?U 2.1 An artificial n?ti n?ti construction 2.2 Syntax and government of the syntagm n? ?ti n? ?ti: a positive expression 2.3 A contemporary exposition in the Madhuk???a 2.3.1 ?de?? 2.3.1.1 One-word ?de??s 2.3.1.2 Sentence ?de??s 2.3.1.2.1 Predicative nouns 2.3.1.2.2 Verbal predicates 2.3.1.3 Methodical ?de??s 2.3.1.4 Determination of n?ti n?ti as sentence ?de?? 2.3.2 Parsing 2.3.2.1 Construing the antecedents 2.3.3 Naming and essence 2.4 n?ti n?ti in the Y?j?avalkyak???a 2.4.1 n?ti n?ti as a positive conceptual substitute for ??tm?n? 2.4.2 n?ti n?ti compared to ?tat tvam asi? 2.4.3 n?ti n?ti in context 2.4.3.1 The syntax of s? e?? 2.4.3.2 The phrasing s? e?? n? ?ti n? ?ti ?tm? in context 2.4.3.2.1 Translation proposal 2.4.3.3 The concluding part 2.4.3.4 One n?ti n?ti paragraph translated in context 2.4.4 In quest of parallels 3 Summary ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Mon Feb 1 12:31:57 2010 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Mon, 01 Feb 10 07:31:57 -0500 Subject: Samskarakaustubha of Anantadeva Message-ID: <161227088351.23782.7591087139645308321.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1132 Lines: 32 Hello Indologists, Does anyone have a photocopy of Anantadeva's Samskarakaustubha and can make a copy for me? This work was published in Pothi form in Mumbai in 1861. Please contact me off-list (mmdesh at umich.edu). Thanks. Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Peter Wyzlic [pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE] Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:09 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Sanskrit pop singer in China >> http://preview.tinyurl.com/skt-popsinger. Well, concerning the claim China has the first Sanskrit popsinger, America came first, indeed. There exists a music group called "Shanti Shanti" who is claimed to be the "first" Sanskrit rock band. See the homepage: Enjoy Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Abteilung f?r Indologie Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn From zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE Mon Feb 1 13:36:18 2010 From: zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE (Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos) Date: Mon, 01 Feb 10 14:36:18 +0100 Subject: sa.wikipedia.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088353.23782.7612759490877896472.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1903 Lines: 45 Op 31.01.2010, om 09:26 heeft James Hartzell het volgende geschreven: > Not sure whether colleagues are conversant with this Sanskrit > Wikipedia link > (sa.wikipedia.org), and what the consensus opinion is; from a very > brief > look it appears only short articles for some entries, some partly in > Hindi. > It might be a good ven? for centralizing links for Sanskrit digital > documents, audio recordings, videos, university websites, etc. > > It was started last week by a team of Samskrita Bharati volunteers in > Bangalore > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Academy/India/2010/Bangalore1 Not quite: the _Academy_ had its first meeting a week ago. The Sanskrit Wikipedia is much older (I know, because I've written in it and corrected a bit of the sometimes embarrassingly poor Sanskrit too). I find the idea of a Sanskrit Wikipedia very sympathetic, but till now the quality both of language and of content leaves a thing or two to be desired. The fact that much of the information provided on the Wikipedia pages about the Sanskrit Wikipedia is not in Sanskrit, but in Hindi (why?...), is food for thought. (So let's help and do something about it! we who call ourselves Sanskritists!) > additionally, we might think of starting some pages on > scholarpedia.org? Nothing against that, but -- we also have our very own faq.indology.info Wiki, started by Dominik some time back. He seems to be the only person who has written a real article in it till now (I must hang my head in shame and confess I didn't get much further yet than extending the frame for http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Languages_and_Writings - but I am working on something to upload. Really). Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Department f?r Asienstudien - Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie Universit?t M?nchen Deutschland Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827 From james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM Mon Feb 1 14:09:55 2010 From: james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM (James Hartzell) Date: Mon, 01 Feb 10 16:09:55 +0200 Subject: sa.wikipedia.org In-Reply-To: <0A6210CB-452B-4F73-A126-5C1B4F9B7D52@uni-muenchen.de> Message-ID: <161227088356.23782.5090705232002955589.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2602 Lines: 64 Thanks Robert for the update and corrections; I joined their discussion group today and raised the question of converting the Hindi into Sanskrit. Following your indication, I checked the faq.indology.info Wiki, and found as you said just the article by Dominik on Ayurveda, under Indigenous Sciences, and variously extended frames. Perhaps colleagues might be interested in uploading links to their already published articles into the relevant categories? This might give a start to making it a valuable cross-subject-domain resource. James Hartzell U. Trento On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos < zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de> wrote: > Op 31.01.2010, om 09:26 heeft James Hartzell het volgende geschreven: > > Not sure whether colleagues are conversant with this Sanskrit Wikipedia >> link >> (sa.wikipedia.org), and what the consensus opinion is; from a very brief >> look it appears only short articles for some entries, some partly in >> Hindi. >> It might be a good ven? for centralizing links for Sanskrit digital >> >> documents, audio recordings, videos, university websites, etc. >> >> It was started last week by a team of Samskrita Bharati volunteers in >> Bangalore >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Academy/India/2010/Bangalore1 >> > > Not quite: the _Academy_ had its first meeting a week ago. The Sanskrit > Wikipedia is much older (I know, because I've written in it and corrected a > bit of the sometimes embarrassingly poor Sanskrit too). I find the idea of a > Sanskrit Wikipedia very sympathetic, but till now the quality both of > language and of content leaves a thing or two to be desired. The fact that > much of the information provided on the Wikipedia pages about the Sanskrit > Wikipedia is not in Sanskrit, but in Hindi (why?...), is food for thought. > (So let's help and do something about it! we who call ourselves > Sanskritists!) > > > additionally, we might think of starting some pages on scholarpedia.org? >> > > Nothing against that, but -- we also have our very own faq.indology.infoWiki, started by Dominik some time back. He seems to be the only person who > has written a real article in it till now (I must hang my head in shame and > confess I didn't get much further yet than extending the frame for > http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Languages_and_Writings - but I am > working on something to upload. Really). > > > Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos > Department f?r Asienstudien - Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie > Universit?t M?nchen > Deutschland > Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 > Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827 > From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Tue Feb 2 15:53:37 2010 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 10 07:53:37 -0800 Subject: D=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E9c=E8s?= de Madeleine Biardeau In-Reply-To: <2684_1265121228_1265121228_c1b6a95e1002020633q4337e50va51f19fc5a2babb2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227088360.23782.5340340634390789474.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 194 Lines: 8 Sad to get the news. We have lost a sincere and versatile scholar, gifted with the ability to come up with refreshing readings of textual evidence and a pleasant personality. ashok aklujkar From rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Wed Feb 3 00:44:14 2010 From: rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Richard Salomon) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 10 16:44:14 -0800 Subject: New book announcement Message-ID: <161227088363.23782.3327145344367787717.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 249 Lines: 11 I am pleased to announce the publication of the following new book as volume 6 of the "Gandharan Buddhist Texts" series: Timothy Lenz, Gandharan Avadanas (Seattle: University of Washington Press, 2010). -Richard Salomon From e.ciurtin at GMAIL.COM Tue Feb 2 14:33:39 2010 From: e.ciurtin at GMAIL.COM (Eugen Ciurtin) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 10 20:03:39 +0530 Subject: D=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E9c=E8s?= de Madeleine Biardeau In-Reply-To: <670AAA87C4D349C390B804C6F7FC2076@iei> Message-ID: <161227088358.23782.13459299077516231215.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 545 Lines: 19 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Chantal Duhuy Date: 1 f?vr. 2010 22:38 Subject: D?c?s de Madeleine Biardeau To: DUHUY Chantal Madame, Monsieur, L'Institut d'?tudes indiennes a la tristesse de vous annoncer le d?c?s de Madame Madeleine BIARDEAU, survenu paisiblement ce matin, lundi 2 f?vrier 2010, ? la maison de retraite "Le Sacr? Coeur" de Cherveux. L'incin?ration est pr?vue jeudi prochain ? Niort. Bien cordialement, Chantal et Isabelle ** From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Wed Feb 3 15:37:56 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 10 09:37:56 -0600 Subject: Abhidharmakosha in e-format In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088376.23782.10960275906741693425.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 294 Lines: 13 The Karika but not the Bhasya is available in the Digital Sanskrit Buddhist Canon http://www.uwest.edu/sanskritcanon/dp/ Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From jkirk at SPRO.NET Wed Feb 3 17:32:08 2010 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 10 10:32:08 -0700 Subject: sa.wikipedia.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088384.23782.4593606615276221447.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1338 Lines: 48 Please.....what are "sockpuppet" violations? JK ___________________ Even more interesting, if you get a history list of people who edited those pages ranked by number of edits, almost all the top ones are the VF people, and almost all of them have been banned from using Wikipedia, mostly for "sockpuppet" violations. Maybe we should give up the idea of our own FAQ, and just use Wikipedia? Has anyone else got ideas on why the INDOLOGY FAQ hasn't been used? Is it too fussy to get a password, perhaps? Best, Dominik On Mon, 1 Feb 2010, Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos wrote: > Nothing against that, but -- we also have our very own > faq.indology.info Wiki, started by Dominik some time back. He seems to > be the only person who has written a real article in it till now (I > must hang my head in shame and confess I didn't get much further yet > than extending the frame for http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Languages_and_Writings > - but I am working on something to upload. Really). > > > Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos > Department f?r Asienstudien - Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie > Universit?t M?nchen Deutschland Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 Fax > (+49-89-) 2180-5827 > -- After nearly 25 years, I'm phasing out this UCL email account. Please switch over to using the email address wujastyk at gmail.com From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Wed Feb 3 18:31:18 2010 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 10 13:31:18 -0500 Subject: Samskarakaustubha of Anantadeva In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088386.23782.15997643685492344452.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2183 Lines: 67 Thanks, Dominik, for this information. I downloaded the .tif files for this book from the DLI web-page. They also have the other older edition of 1861. Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk [ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK] Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:16 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Samskarakaustubha of Anantadeva Hi, Madhav. The Digital Library of India has this entry: Sanskar Kaustubh Marathi Bhashantarasahit., 99999990103033. . 1980. marathi. . 167 pgs. Likely to be of interest? Best, Dominik On Mon, 1 Feb 2010, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: > Hello Indologists, > > Does anyone have a photocopy of Anantadeva's Samskarakaustubha and can make a copy for me? This work was published in Pothi form in Mumbai in 1861. Please contact me off-list (mmdesh at umich.edu). Thanks. > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA > ________________________________________ > From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Peter Wyzlic [pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE] > Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:09 AM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: Sanskrit pop singer in China > > >> http://preview.tinyurl.com/skt-popsinger. > > > Well, concerning the claim China has the first Sanskrit popsinger, America came first, indeed. There exists a music group called "Shanti Shanti" who is claimed to be the "first" Sanskrit rock band. See the homepage: > > Enjoy > Peter Wyzlic > -- > Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften > Abteilung f?r Indologie > Universit?t Bonn > Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 > 53113 Bonn > -- After nearly 25 years, I'm phasing out this UCL email account. Please switch over to using the email address wujastyk at gmail.com From vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU Wed Feb 3 11:20:37 2010 From: vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU (Viktoria Lyssenko) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 10 14:20:37 +0300 Subject: Abhidharmakosha in e-format Message-ID: <161227088366.23782.9318950280034405579.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 322 Lines: 12 -- Dear members ! Where could I find a Sanskrit text of Abhidharmakoshabhashya of Vasubandhu in e-form? Does it exist at all? It may be of great help for myself and my students. Thank you in advance. Victoria Lysenko Institute of Philosophy Russian Academy of Science ????? ????? ??? http://mail.yandex.ru/nospam/sign From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Wed Feb 3 15:16:17 2010 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 10 15:16:17 +0000 Subject: Samskarakaustubha of Anantadeva In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D704D1FAF67A@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227088368.23782.164979607291786994.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1560 Lines: 51 Hi, Madhav. The Digital Library of India has this entry: Sanskar Kaustubh Marathi Bhashantarasahit., 99999990103033. . 1980. marathi. . 167 pgs. Likely to be of interest? Best, Dominik On Mon, 1 Feb 2010, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: > Hello Indologists, > > Does anyone have a photocopy of Anantadeva's Samskarakaustubha and can make a copy for me? This work was published in Pothi form in Mumbai in 1861. Please contact me off-list (mmdesh at umich.edu). Thanks. > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA > ________________________________________ > From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Peter Wyzlic [pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE] > Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:09 AM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: Sanskrit pop singer in China > > >> http://preview.tinyurl.com/skt-popsinger. > > > Well, concerning the claim China has the first Sanskrit popsinger, America came first, indeed. There exists a music group called "Shanti Shanti" who is claimed to be the "first" Sanskrit rock band. See the homepage: > > Enjoy > Peter Wyzlic > -- > Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften > Abteilung f?r Indologie > Universit?t Bonn > Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 > 53113 Bonn > -- After nearly 25 years, I'm phasing out this UCL email account. Please switch over to using the email address wujastyk at gmail.com From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Wed Feb 3 15:23:11 2010 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 10 15:23:11 +0000 Subject: sa.wikipedia.org In-Reply-To: <0A6210CB-452B-4F73-A126-5C1B4F9B7D52@uni-muenchen.de> Message-ID: <161227088370.23782.6666759595016247101.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1996 Lines: 51 Thanks for reminding people of our own INDOLOGY FAQ. There's been almost zero uptake, and I'm curious about why. Obviously Wikipedia is quite a magnet, and perhaps the issues of quality control are not quite as dire as some of us thought. Certainly the founders of Wikipedia are bullish about quality control. As a matter of interest, the Wikipedia pages on the California Hindu Textbook case were a site of much contention a couple of years ago. If you made a correction that was even faintly against the Vedic Foundation position, it got erased or re-written almost immediately. However, things have changed. I made a number of edits last October, and they all still stand. In fact nobody has touched the pages after me. Even more interesting, if you get a history list of people who edited those pages ranked by number of edits, almost all the top ones are the VF people, and almost all of them have been banned from using Wikipedia, mostly for "sockpuppet" violations. Maybe we should give up the idea of our own FAQ, and just use Wikipedia? Has anyone else got ideas on why the INDOLOGY FAQ hasn't been used? Is it too fussy to get a password, perhaps? Best, Dominik On Mon, 1 Feb 2010, Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos wrote: > Nothing against that, but -- we also have our very own > faq.indology.info Wiki, started by Dominik some time back. He seems to > be the only person who has written a real article in it till now (I > must hang my head in shame and confess I didn't get much further yet > than extending the frame for http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Languages_and_Writings > - but I am working on something to upload. Really). > > > Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos > Department f?r Asienstudien - Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie > Universit?t M?nchen > Deutschland > Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 > Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827 > -- After nearly 25 years, I'm phasing out this UCL email account. Please switch over to using the email address wujastyk at gmail.com From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Wed Feb 3 15:26:51 2010 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 10 15:26:51 +0000 Subject: Abhidharmakosha in e-format In-Reply-To: <252771265196037@webmail126.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <161227088373.23782.11519565699135635593.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 701 Lines: 28 Hello, Viktoria. Have you seen these volumes: http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=abhidharmakosa All except v.3, which is a bit annoying. But still ... Best, Dominik On Wed, 3 Feb 2010, Viktoria Lyssenko wrote: > -- Dear members ! > Where could I find a Sanskrit text of Abhidharmakoshabhashya of Vasubandhu in e-form? Does it exist at all? > It may be of great help for myself and my students. > Thank you in advance. > > Victoria Lysenko > Institute of Philosophy > Russian Academy of Science > ????? ????? ??? http://mail.yandex.ru/nospam/sign > -- After nearly 25 years, I'm phasing out this UCL email account. Please switch over to using the email address wujastyk at gmail.com From vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET Thu Feb 4 00:10:27 2010 From: vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 10 19:10:27 -0500 Subject: Abhidharmakosha in e-format Message-ID: <161227088392.23782.16616815302776140812.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 374 Lines: 14 The full first chapter only -- Sanskrit and the two Chinese versions -- is at http://www.mldc.cn/sanskritweb/resour/etext/abhk1.html (set your browser to utf-8 unicode). The version on the Thesaurus Literaturae Buddhicae site is only up to karika 10 of the first chapter as far as I can tell. There is no online e-version of the whole text with bhasya. Dan Lusthaus From vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU Wed Feb 3 16:29:50 2010 From: vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU (Viktoria Lyssenko) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 10 19:29:50 +0300 Subject: Abhidharmakosha in e-format In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088378.23782.1670144617964904126.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1013 Lines: 38 Dear Dominik, It looks so good, but how to download the stuff, the links failed. Victoria 03.02.10, 15:26, "Dominik Wujastyk" : > Hello, Viktoria. Have you seen these volumes: > > http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=abhidharmakosa > > All except v.3, which is a bit annoying. But still ... > > Best, > Dominik > > On Wed, 3 Feb 2010, Viktoria Lyssenko wrote: > > > -- Dear members ! > > Where could I find a Sanskrit text of Abhidharmakoshabhashya of Vasubandhu in e-form? Does it exist at all? > > It may be of great help for myself and my students. > > Thank you in advance. > > > > Victoria Lysenko > > Institute of Philosophy > > Russian Academy of Science > > ????? ????? ??? http://mail.yandex.ru/nospam/sign > > > > -- > After nearly 25 years, I'm phasing out this UCL email account. > Please switch over to using the email address wujastyk at gmail.com > > -- ??????.?????. ?????? ????. ????? - ???. http://mail.yandex.ru/nospam/sign From emstern at VERIZON.NET Thu Feb 4 00:33:11 2010 From: emstern at VERIZON.NET (Elliot M. Stern) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 10 19:33:11 -0500 Subject: D=?iso-8859-15?Q?=E9c=E8s?= de Madeleine Biardeau In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088394.23782.14366164067552175836.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1469 Lines: 33 I note with sadness the decease of Madeleine Biardeau. I met her only once, in 1978 in Pune. She generously lent me the typescript of her French translation of vidhiviveka? and ny?yaka?ika, which she had prepared while reading those texts with V.A. Ramaswami Sastri. This translation informed my understanding of interpretation of the edition published in the Pandit (supplemented by readings from the ms. of ny?yaka?ik? currently available at Sarasvati Bhavan, Varanasi), and both directly and indirectly influenced the draft edition of these texts that I completed in 1984. I returned the French translation to Mme. Biardeau by post around 1984 or 1985 (I do not have a copy). Elliot M. Stern 552 South 48th Street Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029 United States of America telephone: 215-747-6204 mobile: 267-240-8418 emstern at verizon.net On 02 Feb 2010, at 9:33 AM, Eugen Ciurtin wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Chantal Duhuy > Date: 1 f?vr. 2010 22:38 > Subject: D?c?s de Madeleine Biardeau > To: DUHUY Chantal > > Madame, Monsieur, > > L'Institut d'?tudes indiennes a la tristesse de vous annoncer le d?c?s > de Madame Madeleine BIARDEAU, survenu paisiblement ce matin, lundi 2 f?vrier > 2010, ? la maison de retraite "Le Sacr? Coeur" de Cherveux. L'incin?ration > est pr?vue jeudi prochain ? Niort. > > Bien cordialement, > Chantal et Isabelle > ** From ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU Thu Feb 4 00:34:00 2010 From: ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Paul G. Hackett) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 10 19:34:00 -0500 Subject: Abhidharmakosha in e-format In-Reply-To: <005901caa52e$750fd150$2101a8c0@Dan> Message-ID: <161227088396.23782.6081498683832271724.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 558 Lines: 23 Actually, it all appears to be there: http://www.mldc.cn/sanskritweb/etext.htm Paul Hackett Columbia University Quoting Dan Lusthaus : > The full first chapter only -- Sanskrit and the two Chinese versions -- is at > http://www.mldc.cn/sanskritweb/resour/etext/abhk1.html > (set your browser to utf-8 unicode). > > The version on the Thesaurus Literaturae Buddhicae site is only up to > karika 10 of the first chapter as far as I can tell. > > There is no online e-version of the whole text with bhasya. > > Dan Lusthaus From vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU Wed Feb 3 16:34:02 2010 From: vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU (Viktoria Lyssenko) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 10 19:34:02 +0300 Subject: Abhidharmakosha in e-format In-Reply-To: <20100203093756.CJE17553@m4500-02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227088381.23782.15024501569110175413.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 494 Lines: 23 Thank you, Matthew, but I need Bhashya as well! Yours Victoria 03.02.10, 09:37, mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU: > The Karika but not the Bhasya is > available in the Digital Sanskrit Buddhist Canon > http://www.uwest.edu/sanskritcanon/dp/ > > Matthew T. Kapstein > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies > The University of Chicago Divinity School > > Directeur d'?tudes > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > > -- ????? ????? ??? http://mail.yandex.ru/nospam/sign From vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET Thu Feb 4 00:41:59 2010 From: vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 10 19:41:59 -0500 Subject: Abhidharmakosha in e-format Message-ID: <161227088398.23782.657514712694121635.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1269 Lines: 29 I need to correct my previous post --- the complete Kosa with bhasya is available, from the same site I mentioned. There is no index page that I can find, so each chapter has to be accessed separately. Also it gives a line-for-line interlinear with the two Chinese translations (Paramartha and Xuanzang), so while good for intertextual work, distracting if one just wishes to peruse the Sanskrit alone. Go to http://www.mldc.cn/sanskritweb/resour/etext/abhk1.html To get the next chapter, change the .../abhk1.html in the address bar to .../abhk2.html. Then replace the 2 with 3 for the third chapter, and so on, up to chapter 9. This is an example of the work being done at Beijing University. The early chapters were edited/entered by Fan Jingjing, and from the 3rd chapter on by Zhang Xueshan. One tip: Since the webpages were composed in China, browsers default to a simplified Chinese setting, which scrambles the Sanskrit. Use your browser setting to set each page to utf-8 unicode. If you are planning to download these pages to your own computer, if you change the encoding in your browser to utf-8 BEFORE you download each page they should open properly once downloaded without having to tamper with encoding settings again. Dan Lusthaus From vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET Thu Feb 4 00:44:02 2010 From: vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 10 19:44:02 -0500 Subject: Abhidharmakosha in e-format Message-ID: <161227088401.23782.15795938513278967262.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 241 Lines: 14 > Actually, it all appears to be there: > > http://www.mldc.cn/sanskritweb/etext.htm > > Paul Hackett Thanks, Paul. You found the index page. Again, even that has to be changed to utf-8 for the Chinese to appear properly. cheers, Dan From ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU Thu Feb 4 00:53:33 2010 From: ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Paul G. Hackett) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 10 19:53:33 -0500 Subject: Abhidharmakosha in e-format In-Reply-To: <006501caa533$25fe2c10$2101a8c0@Dan> Message-ID: <161227088403.23782.4833239225849207859.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 642 Lines: 21 >> http://www.mldc.cn/sanskritweb/etext.htm >> > even that has to be > changed to utf-8 for the Chinese to appear properly. That's true Dan, if you want to cut-and-paste from the webpage, but if you simply download the html "source" files for each chapter from the index page, you can get the data with having to modify your browser settings. If you open the resulting file(s) in a plain text editor (one that can read UTF-8, of course), you can see that the individual lines are consistently tagged. It should be a simple matter to write a short macro or Perl program to extract just the Sanskrit, if desired. Best, Paul From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Wed Feb 3 22:55:11 2010 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 10 23:55:11 +0100 Subject: Abhidharmakosha in e-format In-Reply-To: <20100203093756.CJE17553@m4500-02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227088389.23782.1713184478188675053.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 937 Lines: 26 Am 03.02.2010 um 16:37 schrieb mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU: > The Karika but not the Bhasya is > available in the Digital Sanskrit Buddhist Canon > http://www.uwest.edu/sanskritcanon/dp/ Compare also Jens Braarvig's four language presentation in "Thesaurus Literaturae Buddhicae", Sanskrit, Chinese, Tibetan, English, URL: One can go through the Bh??ya sentence by sentence (the "full text" link does not provide the complete text, so far I can see). Just for the record: a plain text version of the Tibetan translation of the Bh??ya (taken from the Derge Tanjur) is available from ACIP, too: 1: 2: All the best Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Abteilung f?r Indologie Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn From vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET Thu Feb 4 05:38:54 2010 From: vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Thu, 04 Feb 10 00:38:54 -0500 Subject: Abhidharmakosha in e-format Message-ID: <161227088406.23782.7814146049066947079.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 817 Lines: 22 > That's true Dan, if you want to cut-and-paste from the webpage, but if > you simply download the html "source" files for each chapter from the > index page, you can get the data with having to modify your browser > settings. yes, Paul, but if you save the html page after you've set your browser to read that page as utf-8 encoded, it should save that setting in the file, so that when you subsequently open the html file on your harddrive with your browser you won't have to fuss with the encoding settings any further; it will automatically open in properly readable format. >It should be a simple matter to write a short macro or Perl program to >extract just the Sanskrit, if desired. If anyone feels adventurous, and is willing to share the results, please let the rest of us know! best, Dan From vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET Thu Feb 4 06:58:51 2010 From: vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Thu, 04 Feb 10 01:58:51 -0500 Subject: Abhidharmakoshabhashya in e-format Message-ID: <161227088412.23782.2899686161381945009.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1930 Lines: 49 Dear Victoria, utf-8 is the standard unicode encoding designed to handle all languages and scripts. The Beijing webpages (and all the others mentioned) are already using utf-8 to encode the romanized Sanskrit (and Chinese). When a webpage is properly set up, it embeds hidden instructions to tell the browser which language-set to use. The Beijing webpages lack that setting, so one has to do it manually oneself when accessing the webpage. Depending on which browser you use, you can alter the encoding that the browser uses to read/decode a webpage. If, for instance, you are using Firefox as your browser, then under the "View" menu, select "character encoding" which will display a list of language types and character sets. Simply choose "UNICODE (utf-8)" and the page will reload with the Sanskrit and Chinese readable. The procedure varies slightly with different browsers, but that's the basic idea. Incidentally, there is a complete English translation of the AKB by Leo Pruden, unfortunately taken from Vallee Poussin's French version rather than the original Sanskrit or Chinese texts (and Pruden mistranslated the French at times). http://www.wisdom-books.com/ProductDetail.asp?PID=13420&MATCH=2 Still usable, but a better, more critical translation would be nice. best, Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Viktoria Lyssenko" To: Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:26 AM Subject: Abhidharmakoshabhashya in e-format > Thanks to all of you who replied to my reguest. Now I have a reach choise > of formats. Unfortunately, I did not find a famous utf-8 to download. And > the last remark - it is a pity that there is no full English translation > of AKB (we have it in Russian, just not fully published by Rudoi and > Ostrovskaya). > Yours Victoria > ??????.?????. ?????? ????. ????? - ???. http://mail.yandex.ru/nospam/sign > From ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU Thu Feb 4 11:55:23 2010 From: ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Paul G. Hackett) Date: Thu, 04 Feb 10 06:55:23 -0500 Subject: Abhidharmakosha in e-format In-Reply-To: <002c01caa55c$572c0f40$2101a8c0@Dan> Message-ID: <161227088415.23782.8769566942478044345.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1459 Lines: 35 At 12:38 AM -0500 2/4/10, Dan Lusthaus wrote: >>It should be a simple matter to write a short macro or Perl program >>to extract just the Sanskrit, if desired. > >If anyone feels adventurous, and is willing to share the results, >please let the rest of us know! I suspected that might be your response! Sure. I need this data for my own purposes, so I'll be happy to do it and re-distribute it. It would be good to pass it on to GRETIL as well, although it would be nice to determine which source they used for the Sanskrit (Patna 1967, Varanasi 1970, their own Skt. mss., etc.) to properly document the file. If anyone can locate that information on the site, please pass that on. At 1:58 AM -0500 2/4/10, Dan Lusthaus wrote: >Incidentally, there is a complete English translation of the AKB by >Leo Pruden, unfortunately taken from Vallee Poussin's French version >rather than the original Sanskrit or Chinese texts (and Pruden >mistranslated the French at times). There is a complete English translation done from the Sanskrit (with critical notes referencing the Tibetan) done by Geshe Lobsang Tharchin and Geshe Jampal Thardo with Art Engle and Robert Clark under the auspices of the American Institute of Buddhist Studies back in the 1970s/80s. It is only now being edited for publication and should come out in the next couple of years as part of the ongoing Tengyur Translation Project at Columbia University. best, Paul From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Thu Feb 4 14:01:16 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Thu, 04 Feb 10 08:01:16 -0600 Subject: new publication on Tantric Buddhism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088418.23782.2618557908679278159.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1307 Lines: 53 With apologies for cross-posting: I am pleased to announce the imminent publication of _Esoteric Buddhism at Dunhuang: Rites and Teachings for this Life and Beyond_, edited by Matthew Kapstein and Sam van Schaik, and published by Brill. (It may now be ordered on the brill.nl website.) The contents are: RITES AND TEACHINGS FOR THIS LIFE? CATHY CANTWELL AND ROBERT MAYER A Dunhuang Phurpa Consecration Rite: IOL Tib J 331.III?s Consecrations Section SAM VAN SCHAIK The Limits of Transgression: The Samaya vows of Mah?yoga KAMMIE MORRISON TAKAHASHI Ritual and Philosophical Speculation in the Rdo rje Sems dpa?i zhus lan ? AND BEYOND YOSHIRO IMAEDA The Bar do thos grol, or ?The Tibetan Book of the Dead?: Tibetan Conversion to Buddhism or Tibetanisation of Buddhism? MATTHEW T. KAPSTEIN Between Na rak and a Hard Place: Evil rebirth and the Violation of Vows in Early Rnying ma pa Sources and Their Dunhuang Antecedents KATHERINE R. TSIANG Buddhist Printed Images and Texts of the Eighth-Tenth Centuries: Typologies of Replication and Representation The volume should be ready for distribution within the next few weeks. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU Thu Feb 4 06:26:18 2010 From: vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU (Viktoria Lyssenko) Date: Thu, 04 Feb 10 09:26:18 +0300 Subject: Abhidharmakoshabhashya in e-format Message-ID: <161227088409.23782.6748167587087392370.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 397 Lines: 6 Thanks to all of you who replied to my reguest. Now I have a reach choise of formats. Unfortunately, I did not find a famous utf-8 to download. And the last remark - it is a pity that there is no full English translation of AKB (we have it in Russian, just not fully published by Rudoi and Ostrovskaya). Yours Victoria ??????.?????. ?????? ????. ????? - ???. http://mail.yandex.ru/nospam/sign From jkirk at SPRO.NET Thu Feb 4 18:42:25 2010 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick) Date: Thu, 04 Feb 10 11:42:25 -0700 Subject: sa.wikipedia.org In-Reply-To: <4B6B0E22.2050504@uni-muenchen.de> Message-ID: <161227088424.23782.14860525268535121861.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 709 Lines: 29 Thanks to all for sockpuppet replies. Joanna K. -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Robert Zydenbos Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:13 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: sa.wikipedia.org On 03.02.10 18:32, JKirkpatrick wrote: > Please.....what are "sockpuppet" violations? > To put it very briefly: false identities, set up for a specific purpose -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet) -- Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Department fuer Asienstudien - Institut fuer Indologie und Tibetologie Universitaet Muenchen Germany Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827 http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~zydenbos From zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE Thu Feb 4 18:12:50 2010 From: zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE (Robert Zydenbos) Date: Thu, 04 Feb 10 19:12:50 +0100 Subject: sa.wikipedia.org In-Reply-To: <3FA4C7493BA143BABD0EDCDB268E6758@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <161227088421.23782.4476260295910104393.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 446 Lines: 20 On 03.02.10 18:32, JKirkpatrick wrote: > Please.....what are "sockpuppet" violations? > To put it very briefly: false identities, set up for a specific purpose -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet) -- Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Department fuer Asienstudien - Institut fuer Indologie und Tibetologie Universitaet Muenchen Germany Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827 http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~zydenbos From ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU Fri Feb 5 21:54:23 2010 From: ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Paul G. Hackett) Date: Fri, 05 Feb 10 16:54:23 -0500 Subject: Sanskrit e-text of Abhidharmakosa-bhasya Message-ID: <161227088430.23782.3539842854047211316.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 891 Lines: 27 Greetings, Following the discussion on this list about the Abhidharmakosa-bhasya (AKB) Sanskrit e-text available from Peking University, I have downloaded and extract the Sanskrit portion and made the resulting files available for download: http://www.columbia.edu/~ph2046/docs/AKB/ In the course of processing this data a number of observations were made, so be sure to read the "READ ME.txt" file included for a detail list of these issues. For those of you planning to work extensively with the Sanskrit of the AKB, be aware that as a result of the discussion on this list, another version of the Sanskrit AKB in e-text has come to light that may prove to be "cleaner" data. It is hoped that this data can be made publicly available as well; I or someone else will post something to this list as soon as it becomes available. Regards, Paul Hackett Columbia University From zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE Fri Feb 5 19:54:11 2010 From: zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE (Robert Zydenbos) Date: Fri, 05 Feb 10 20:54:11 +0100 Subject: sa.wikipedia.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088427.23782.12855973437254833510.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2342 Lines: 58 On 03.02.10 16:23, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Thanks for reminding people of our own INDOLOGY FAQ. There's been almost > zero uptake, and I'm curious about why. Just conjecturing, I can think of three reasons why not much has happened on faq.indology.info: (a) The internet is a fiery place, and most Indologists prefer not to get their heads bitten off by the thought police of Vedic foundations, various Hindutva groups and what not, just for writing scholarly opinions. (This is a weak reason, but understandable.) (b) The consideration that one does not get much pu?ya writing in a wiki for the public, if one can use the same time for writing a quotable article or book that earns one points in the academic community, leading to an increase of prestige among peers, tenure, the financing of projects, and what not. (Not a nice reason either, but it makes sense.) (c) Why should anyone bother and take the time to write up what is already found in books and journals, which is where seriously interested people will look anyway? (This is not a very good reason either.) > Maybe we should give up the idea of our own FAQ, and just use Wikipedia? > No, actually it's a good idea to have the FAQ. The Wikipedia in practice is an interesting but anarchic place, and it is a good idea to have something specifc on Indology by members from the academic community: if anyone would like to know what the current academic opinion(s) on certain Indological matters is / are (in contrast to traditional, religious, etc. opinions), s/he could have a look at the FAQ. For the same reason: > Is it too fussy to get a password, perhaps? > Not fussy at all (I think), and the password access is, to a large extent, the justification for having the FAQ at all. Wikipedia etc. are already there for broad exchanges among the general public. And it might, maybe, perhaps, a little, create some publicity and help justify and protect the existence of the discipline in a time when universities (at least here in Europe) are in the process of reducing themselves to a sort of business schools. RZ -- Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Department f?r Asienstudien - Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie Universit?t M?nchen Germany Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827 http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~zydenbos From jwn3y at CMS.MAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU Sun Feb 7 09:46:22 2010 From: jwn3y at CMS.MAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU (John William Nemec) Date: Sun, 07 Feb 10 04:46:22 -0500 Subject: A "Hindu Prodigal Son?" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088433.23782.11011023118424558797.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 612 Lines: 26 Dear Indologists, A colleague of mine has asked whether Hinduism, or another Indian religion, records a story that runs parallel in any way to the parable of the prodigal son (Luke 15: 11-32), in addition to the parallel that may be found in the Saddharmapu.n.dariika Suutra. Any suggestions on- or off-list would be most appreciated. Sincerely, John __________________________________ John Nemec, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Indian Religions and South Asian Studies Dept. of Religious Studies University of Virginia 120 Halsey Hall Charlottesville, VA 22911 (USA) nemec at virginia.edu +1-434-924-6716 From jrasik at COLMEX.MX Mon Feb 8 14:39:09 2010 From: jrasik at COLMEX.MX (Rasik Vihari Joshi Tripathi) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 10 08:39:09 -0600 Subject: D=?iso-8859-15?Q?=E9c=E8s?= de Madeleine Biardeau Message-ID: <161227088439.23782.13844483296406055262.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2683 Lines: 72 I am extremely sad to get this news. She was a a very nice person and a great versatile scholar. I met her in 1954 -1956 in paris. We studied together Mahabharata. May God grant her eternal peace. Rasik Vihari Joshi -----Mensaje original----- De: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] En nombre de Lyne BANSAT-BOUDON Enviado el: Lunes, 08 de Febrero de 2010 03:57 a.m. Para: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Asunto: Re: D?c?s de Madeleine Biardeau C'est avec une profonde tristesse que nous avons appris la disparition de Madeleine Biardeau, le 1er f?vrier 2010. Madeleine Biardeau consacra ses premiers travaux ? la philosophie indienne, en particulier ? la philosophie du langage. Rappelons, notamment, sa th?se: Th?orie de la connaissance et philosophie de la parole dans le brahmanisme classique, sa traduction du premier chapitre du V?kyapad?ya, son ?tude sur la Brahmasiddhi de Mandana Mishra. Elle fut aussi le grand d?chiffreur du Mah?bh?rata, dont elle proposa la lecture ? ses ?tudiants et auditeurs de l'Ecole pratique des hautes ?tudes, de 1968 ? 1977. J'eus le privil?ge de suivre ce remarquable cycle de s?minaires, qui co?ncida avec une p?riode d'intense effervescence intellectuelle et politique. Ce fut l? le travail d'une vie, presque une ?pop?e de l'interpr?tation, ? la mesure de son objet, et que vint couronner la publication d'une consid?rable monographie parue en 2002. Madeleine Biardeau entreprit, parall?lement, un autre travail d'envergure: la traduction du R?m?yana, dont elle assuma la direction, avec Marie-Claude Porcher, pour la Biblioth?que de la Pl?iade (1999). Chercheur exigeant et curieux de l'Inde sous toutes ses formes, Madeleine Biardeau se voulait ?galement anthropologue, allant sur le terrain pour confronter les textes ? la r?alit? indienne contemporaine. D?marche que son livre, Histoires de poteaux: variations v?diques autour de la d?esse hindoue, illustre de fa?on exemplaire. C'est en cette double qualit? de philosophe et d'anthropologue qu'elle fut la directrice du Centre d'?tudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud, fond? par Louis Dumont. Nous garderons le souvenir d'un savant ? la pens?e intr?pide et d'une ampleur de vues peu commune. Lyne Bansat-Boudon Directeur d'?tudes Ecole pratique des hautes ?tudes, section des sciences religieuses Membre honoraire de l'Institut universitaire de France Le 2 f?vr. 10 ? 16:53, Ashok Aklujkar a ?crit : > Sad to get the news. We have lost a sincere and versatile scholar, > gifted > with the ability to come up with refreshing readings of textual > evidence and > a pleasant personality. > > ashok aklujkar > From lyne.bansat-boudon at EPHE.SORBONNE.FR Mon Feb 8 09:56:34 2010 From: lyne.bansat-boudon at EPHE.SORBONNE.FR (Lyne BANSAT-BOUDON) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 10 10:56:34 +0100 Subject: D=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E9c=E8s?= de Madeleine Biardeau In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088436.23782.12935233822908386148.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2231 Lines: 62 C?est avec une profonde tristesse que nous avons appris la disparition de Madeleine Biardeau, le 1er f?vrier 2010. Madeleine Biardeau consacra ses premiers travaux ? la philosophie indienne, en particulier ? la philosophie du langage. Rappelons, notamment, sa th?se: Th?orie de la connaissance et philosophie de la parole dans le brahmanisme classique, sa traduction du premier chapitre du V?kyapad?ya, son ?tude sur la Brahmasiddhi de Mandana Mishra. Elle fut aussi le grand d?chiffreur du Mah?bh?rata, dont elle proposa la lecture ? ses ?tudiants et auditeurs de l?Ecole pratique des hautes ?tudes, de 1968 ? 1977. J?eus le privil?ge de suivre ce remarquable cycle de s?minaires, qui co?ncida avec une p?riode d?intense effervescence intellectuelle et politique. Ce fut l? le travail d?une vie, presque une ?pop?e de l?interpr?tation, ? la mesure de son objet, et que vint couronner la publication d?une consid?rable monographie parue en 2002. Madeleine Biardeau entreprit, parall?lement, un autre travail d?envergure: la traduction du R?m?yana, dont elle assuma la direction, avec Marie-Claude Porcher, pour la Biblioth?que de la Pl?iade (1999). Chercheur exigeant et curieux de l?Inde sous toutes ses formes, Madeleine Biardeau se voulait ?galement anthropologue, allant sur le terrain pour confronter les textes ? la r?alit? indienne contemporaine. D?marche que son livre, Histoires de poteaux: variations v?diques autour de la d?esse hindoue, illustre de fa?on exemplaire. C?est en cette double qualit? de philosophe et d?anthropologue qu?elle fut la directrice du Centre d??tudes de l?Inde et de l?Asie du Sud, fond? par Louis Dumont. Nous garderons le souvenir d?un savant ? la pens?e intr?pide et d?une ampleur de vues peu commune. Lyne Bansat-Boudon Directeur d??tudes Ecole pratique des hautes ?tudes, section des sciences religieuses Membre honoraire de l?Institut universitaire de France Le 2 f?vr. 10 ? 16:53, Ashok Aklujkar a ?crit : > Sad to get the news. We have lost a sincere and versatile scholar, > gifted > with the ability to come up with refreshing readings of textual > evidence and > a pleasant personality. > > ashok aklujkar > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Feb 8 15:56:52 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 10 16:56:52 +0100 Subject: BitComet as (simpler?) alternative to wget In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088442.23782.2587753316066504581.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 572 Lines: 27 In the bash shell I posted a little while ago, the first line should read #!/bin/bash, not #!bin/sh as I posted. I shall be sending ten Euros to each of you who wrote to tell me of this error (before today). corrected version: ---------- cut here ----------- > #!/bin/bash > > # fetch Kapadia_Desc.Cat.Govt.Colls.MSS.BORI-Jaina > # Literature and Philosophy XIX.1 Svetambara Works_1957 > > for i in {00000001..397..1} > do > wget > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/data/upload/0048/903/PTIFF/$i.tif > done > ---------- cut here ----------- > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Feb 9 01:22:25 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 09 Feb 10 02:22:25 +0100 Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088445.23782.5569242686717104824.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2589 Lines: 71 Thank you, Klaus. Best, Dominik On 27 January 2010 12:58, Klaus Karttunen wrote: > Dear Dominik and others, > I have only now time to check what I have under the heading "Children" in > my collection of references. Here's the result: > > CHAMPION, C. & R. GARCIA: Litt?rature orale villageoise de l'Inde du nord: > chants et rites de l'enfance des pays d'Aoudh et bhojpuri. 330 p. P.E.F.E.O. > 153. P. 1989. > DESHPANDE, G. A. Kamalabhai: The Child in Ancient India. 15+227 p. Poona > 1936 (diss. Prague 1931, mainly based on the Dharma- and G?hyas?tras). Also > E. Waldschmidt, OLZ 40, 1937, 550-552. > KATRE, Sumitra Mangesh: ?On some words for ?child? in Indo-Aryan?, ABORI > 23, 1942, 242-249 (OIA to NIA). > LOMMEL, Hermann: ?Vedica und Avestica II. Mutter und Kind bei Mensch und > Tier in einigen vedischen Ver?gleichen?, ZII 8, 1931, 274-280. > ROY, Sarat Chandra: ?Birth and Childhood Ceremonies amongst the Oraons?, > JBORS 1:1, 1915, ??-??. > ------ ?Birth, childhood and puberty ceremonies among the > Birhors?, JBORS 4:2, 1918, ??-??. > SHARMA, Arvind: ?Attitudes towards sonship in classical Hinduism and > Theravada Buddhism: a comparison?, JOIB 24, 1975, 338-342. > SHASTRI, Veneemadhava: ?Child in Prakrit Poems?, JOIB 47:1-2, 1997 (2000), > 101-112 (in dramas and lyric anthologies). > STERNBACH, Ludwik: ?Juridical Studies in Ancient Indian Law: 8. Infanticide > and Exposure of New-born Children?, Poona Or. 13:1-2, 1948, 79-87. > THIEME, Paul: "?ber einige Benennungen des Nachkommen", KZ 66, 1939, > 130-144. > ------ "Weiteres zum indischen Adoptionsritual", KZ 67, 1942, > 289 (cf. 1939, 134). > VERPOORTEN, Jean-Marie: ?L?enfant dans la litt?rature rituelle v?dique > (Br?hma?a)?, L?enfant dans les civilisations orientales. Acta Orientalia > Belgica 2. Leuven 1980, ??-??. > > Best, > > Klaus Karttunen > Professor of South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies > Institute for Asian and African Studies > PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) > 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND > Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674 > Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094 > Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi > > > > On Jan 23, 2010, at 7:50 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > > Dear Colleagues, > > > > Can you point me to a scholarly discussion of this topic? What are the > > earliest depictions of children in S. Asian art? What deductions can be > > made about the idea of the child from any such images? What I'm thinking > > about is the S. A. evidence that might inform a discussion of the > "invention > > of childhood". > > > > Best, > > Dominik > > > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Feb 9 01:28:31 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 09 Feb 10 02:28:31 +0100 Subject: sa.wikipedia.org In-Reply-To: <4B6C7763.2060008@uni-muenchen.de> Message-ID: <161227088448.23782.8784173815948647936.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 211 Lines: 11 Thank you for your interesting and useful reflections, Robert. I think I agree with all your points. I'll leave the INDOLOGY FAQ where it is, and let's see whether it starts to grow, slowly. Best, Dominik From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Feb 9 01:33:02 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 09 Feb 10 02:33:02 +0100 Subject: Abhidharmakoshabhashya in e-format In-Reply-To: <329401caa567$8297c740$2101a8c0@Dan> Message-ID: <161227088451.23782.4034662046203679730.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 535 Lines: 18 2010/2/4 Dan Lusthaus > > Incidentally, there is a complete English translation of the AKB by Leo > Pruden, unfortunately taken from Vallee Poussin's French version rather than > the original Sanskrit or Chinese texts (and Pruden mistranslated the French > at times). > http://www.wisdom-books.com/ProductDetail.asp?PID=13420&MATCH=2 > > Still usable, but a better, more critical translation would be nice. > > Good to know about it. But can a book that costs over ?200 really be called "usable"? D From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Feb 9 11:53:06 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 09 Feb 10 12:53:06 +0100 Subject: Abhidharmakoshabhashya in e-format In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088454.23782.7075443479848919829.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 740 Lines: 27 In this context, a colleague drew my attention to this site: http://dharma.org.ru/board/topic880-15.html On 9 February 2010 02:33, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > 2010/2/4 Dan Lusthaus > >> >> Incidentally, there is a complete English translation of the AKB by Leo >> Pruden, unfortunately taken from Vallee Poussin's French version rather than >> the original Sanskrit or Chinese texts (and Pruden mistranslated the French >> at times). >> http://www.wisdom-books.com/ProductDetail.asp?PID=13420&MATCH=2 >> >> Still usable, but a better, more critical translation would be nice. >> >> Good to know about it. But can a book that costs over ?200 really be > called "usable"? > > D > > From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Wed Feb 10 23:40:32 2010 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 10 15:40:32 -0800 Subject: Contacting Atsushi Kanazawa Message-ID: <161227088457.23782.8548020877333259447.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 182 Lines: 8 Can anyone send me, off-list, the electronic or non-electronic address of Kanazawa, Atsushi, the author of a 1989 article, "Notes on the Sa:nkar.sa-kaa.n.da ..."? ashok aklujkar From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Thu Feb 11 11:15:03 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 10 05:15:03 -0600 Subject: Buddhist Tales In-Reply-To: <5F1808CB-60C6-4CF4-BEA6-675113D0FCDC@mac.com> Message-ID: <161227088462.23782.11031776636689155783.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 549 Lines: 19 There's a very good collection of tales of the major bodhisattvas culled from the Mahayana sutras by the 19th c. Tibetan scholar Mi pham. There is a recent English translation: A GARLAND OF JEWELS: The Eight Great Bodhisattvas by Jamgon Mipham Rinpoche, trans. by Yeshe Gyamtso. I have not yet seen it myself, but I imagine that it is competent, if not a work of scholarship. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From brendan.gillon at MCGILL.CA Thu Feb 11 14:25:03 2010 From: brendan.gillon at MCGILL.CA (Brendan Gillon) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 10 09:25:03 -0500 Subject: book announcement: Logic in Early Classical India Message-ID: <161227088464.23782.6013145599146473604.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1334 Lines: 52 Dear collegues, The following is for your information. Logic in Earliest Classical India, edited by Brendan S. Gillon. Papers of the 12th World Sanskrit Conference, v. 10.2. Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass Publishers. Papers: The Development of Logic in Early Classical India by Brendan S. Gillon Reasoning as a Science, its Role in Early Dharma Literature, and the Emergence of the Term nyaya by Karin Preisendanz On the Proof Passage of the Carakasamhita: Editions, Manuscripts and Commentaries by Ernst Prets The Logical Reason Called virodhin in Vaisesika and Its Significance for Connection-based Theories of Reasoning by Birgit Kellner The Discussion of pramanas in the Spitzer Manuscript by Eli Franco The Logic of the Sa?dhinirmocanastra: Establishing Right Reasoning Based on Similarity (sarupya) and Dissimilarity (vairupya) by Chizuko Yoshimizu Obversion and Contraposition in the Nyayabhasya by Brendan S. Gillon Anumana in Bhartrhari's Vakyapadiya by Akihiko Akamatsu -- Brendan S. Gillon email: brendan.gillon at mcgill.ca Department of Linguistics McGill University tel.: 001 514 398 4868 1085, Avenue Docteur-Penfield Montreal, Quebec fax.: 001 514 398 7088 H3A 1A7 CANADA webpage: http://webpages.mcgill.ca/staff/group3/bgillo/web/ From mnstorm at MAC.COM Thu Feb 11 10:25:57 2010 From: mnstorm at MAC.COM (Mary Storm) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 10 15:55:57 +0530 Subject: Buddhist Tales Message-ID: <161227088459.23782.1586659132897476199.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 618 Lines: 29 Dear Indology, Could someone kindly tell me if there is an anthology of Mahayana tales of the Bodhisattvas, analogous to the Hindu puranas and the narratives of the gods and goddesses? Not Jatakas, but, for example, stories of the deeds of Manjusri, Maitreya or Avalokitesvara...? Many thanks for your help, Mary Mary N. Storm, Ph.D. Academic Director and Lecturer India: National Identity and the Arts and Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture SIT Study Abroad www.sit.edu F 301 Lado Sarai New Delhi 110030 Mobile +91 98106 98003 Office Landline +91 11 2437 8003 Residence Landline +91 11295 53298 From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Fri Feb 12 14:16:22 2010 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 10 06:16:22 -0800 Subject: Digital Sanskrit corpus and dictionary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088469.23782.13838436819990050229.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 277 Lines: 14 Thanks for this very helpful tool. ashok aklujkar On 10-02-12 2:10 AM, "Oliver Hellwig" wrote: > I would like to announce that a digital corpus of lemmatized Sanskrit texts > is now available at > > http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/ From acerulli at AYA.YALE.EDU Fri Feb 12 14:52:15 2010 From: acerulli at AYA.YALE.EDU (A.Cerulli) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 10 09:52:15 -0500 Subject: India Review, vol. 9(1) Message-ID: <161227088475.23782.5222291062975060365.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1455 Lines: 59 Dear Friends and Colleagues, I am happy to inform you that a new issue of India Review has just been published. Below you will find the table of contents. We are currently accepting submissions for issue 9(4). In addition to the traditional coverage of regional and national politics, foreign policy, and sociology, please note that the editors of *India Review* are actively seeking to expand the intellectual scope of the journal to include issues of religious discourse, practice, and community in Indian history and contemporary society. I invite all interested on the INDOLOGY listserve to submit their work. For more information, please visit - http://tinyurl.com/yb3oyc5 Sincerely, Anthony Cerulli Hobart and William Smith Colleges Managing Editor, *India Review* * * * * India Review, Volume 9 Issue 1 2010 *ISSN:* 1557-3036 (electronic) 1473-6489 (paper) *Publication Frequency:* 4 issues per year *Subjects:* India (studies of); Politics & International Relations; *Publisher:* Routledge *Editorials* *Editor's Note: Managing Editor of India Review* *Eswaran Sridharan * *Original Articles* *India's International Quest for Oil and Natural Gas: Fueling Foreign Policy?* *Tanvi Madan * *India and Pakistan: The Origins of Their Different Politico-Military Trajectories* *Manjeet S. Pardesi; Sumit Ganguly * *Review Essay* *Partition, Its Refugees, and Postcolonial State-Making in South Asia* *Cabeiri Debergh Robinson * From hellwig7 at GMX.DE Fri Feb 12 10:10:24 2010 From: hellwig7 at GMX.DE (Oliver Hellwig) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 10 10:10:24 +0000 Subject: Digital Sanskrit corpus and dictionary Message-ID: <161227088467.23782.13014793332466476645.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 684 Lines: 27 Dear colleagues, I would like to announce that a digital corpus of lemmatized Sanskrit texts is now available at http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/ The corpus contains more than 2.500.000 manually annotated entries. It offers the possibilities to search for lemmata and collocations and presents lists of referenced finite and infinite forms of each verbal lemma contained in the lexical database. In addition, the corpus makes it possible to examine the distribution of lexical units over the time using basic statistical measures. Best, Oliver Hellwig PD Dr. Oliver Hellwig S?dasien-Institut, Universit?t Heidelberg Im Neuenheimer Feld 330 69120 Heidelberg From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Fri Feb 12 14:23:53 2010 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 10 15:23:53 +0100 Subject: Digital Sanskrit corpus and dictionary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088472.23782.13669441311965332071.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 468 Lines: 23 I would add wonderful, thank you to all the team who contributed to it. Christophe Vielle >Thanks for this very helpful tool. > >ashok aklujkar > > >On 10-02-12 2:10 AM, "Oliver Hellwig" wrote: > >> I would like to announce that a digital corpus of lemmatized Sanskrit texts >> is now available at >> >> http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/ -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.lalibreblogs.be From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Fri Feb 12 21:29:39 2010 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (george thompson) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 10 16:29:39 -0500 Subject: Digital Sanskrit corpus and dictionary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088477.23782.8452888940493825160.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 917 Lines: 39 Dear Oliver, I have had the chance today to look into your corpus & dictionary and I too think that it is a valuable tool. I also thank you for your efforts. George Thompson Oliver Hellwig wrote: >Dear colleagues, > >I would like to announce that a digital corpus of lemmatized Sanskrit texts >is now available at > >http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/ > >The corpus contains more than 2.500.000 manually annotated entries. It >offers the possibilities to search for lemmata and collocations and presents >lists of referenced finite and infinite forms of each verbal lemma contained >in the lexical database. In addition, the corpus makes it possible to >examine the distribution of lexical units over the time using basic >statistical measures. > > >Best, > >Oliver Hellwig > > >PD Dr. Oliver Hellwig >S?dasien-Institut, Universit?t Heidelberg >Im Neuenheimer Feld 330 >69120 Heidelberg > > > From Gerard.Huet at INRIA.FR Sat Feb 13 00:59:12 2010 From: Gerard.Huet at INRIA.FR (=?utf-8?Q?G=C3=A9rard_Huet?=) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 10 01:59:12 +0100 Subject: Digital Sanskrit corpus and dictionary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088479.23782.7163534254171100797.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 886 Lines: 39 Bravo Oliver. Your work is amazing. Very impressive, and potentially extremely useful. G?rard Le 12 f?vr. 10 ? 11:10, Oliver Hellwig a ?crit : > Dear colleagues, > > I would like to announce that a digital corpus of lemmatized > Sanskrit texts > is now available at > > http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/ > > The corpus contains more than 2.500.000 manually annotated entries. It > offers the possibilities to search for lemmata and collocations and > presents > lists of referenced finite and infinite forms of each verbal lemma > contained > in the lexical database. In addition, the corpus makes it possible to > examine the distribution of lexical units over the time using basic > statistical measures. > > > Best, > > Oliver Hellwig > > > PD Dr. Oliver Hellwig > S?dasien-Institut, Universit?t Heidelberg > Im Neuenheimer Feld 330 > 69120 Heidelberg > > From ambapradeep at GMAIL.COM Sat Feb 13 03:10:47 2010 From: ambapradeep at GMAIL.COM (amba kulkarni) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 10 08:40:47 +0530 Subject: Digital Sanskrit corpus and dictionary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088482.23782.18240505437666862410.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1209 Lines: 49 Dear Oliver, It is simple awful. I am sure the indologists will benefit from this, and this tool will provide a new dimension to the indology research. It will be great if we can make all the electronically available Sanskrit texts indexed this way! with warm regards, Amba Kulkarni Reader and Head Department of Sanskrit Studies University of Hyderabad 040 23133802(off) http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in On 12 February 2010 15:40, Oliver Hellwig wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > I would like to announce that a digital corpus of lemmatized Sanskrit texts > is now available at > > http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/ > > The corpus contains more than 2.500.000 manually annotated entries. It > offers the possibilities to search for lemmata and collocations and > presents > lists of referenced finite and infinite forms of each verbal lemma > contained > in the lexical database. In addition, the corpus makes it possible to > examine the distribution of lexical units over the time using basic > statistical measures. > > > Best, > > Oliver Hellwig > > > PD Dr. Oliver Hellwig > S?dasien-Institut, Universit?t Heidelberg > Im Neuenheimer Feld 330 > 69120 Heidelberg > From ambapradeep at GMAIL.COM Sat Feb 13 08:36:55 2010 From: ambapradeep at GMAIL.COM (amba kulkarni) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 10 14:06:55 +0530 Subject: Digital Sanskrit corpus and dictionary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088484.23782.2050180883594209443.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1666 Lines: 65 Oops, I am sorry, I mean awesome! -- amba kulkarni P.S. By the way, I have come across usage of 'awful' in the sense of amazing as 'She is awful pretty (cobuild dictionary), which resembles the use of the word bhaya.mkara in Marathi as an adjective of 'su.mdara'. May be that might be the cause of confusion. On 13 February 2010 08:40, amba kulkarni wrote: > Dear Oliver, > > It is simple awful. I am sure the indologists will benefit from this, and > this tool will provide a new dimension to the indology research. > > It will be great if we can make all the electronically available Sanskrit > texts indexed this way! > > with warm regards, > Amba Kulkarni > > Reader and Head > Department of Sanskrit Studies > University of Hyderabad > 040 23133802(off) > > http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in > > On 12 February 2010 15:40, Oliver Hellwig wrote: > >> Dear colleagues, >> >> I would like to announce that a digital corpus of lemmatized Sanskrit >> texts >> is now available at >> >> http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/ >> >> The corpus contains more than 2.500.000 manually annotated entries. It >> offers the possibilities to search for lemmata and collocations and >> presents >> lists of referenced finite and infinite forms of each verbal lemma >> contained >> in the lexical database. In addition, the corpus makes it possible to >> examine the distribution of lexical units over the time using basic >> statistical measures. >> >> >> Best, >> >> Oliver Hellwig >> >> >> PD Dr. Oliver Hellwig >> S?dasien-Institut, Universit?t Heidelberg >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 330 >> 69120 Heidelberg >> > > From phbernede at YAHOO.COM Sat Feb 13 20:19:33 2010 From: phbernede at YAHOO.COM (Pascale Haag) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 10 20:19:33 +0000 Subject: Digital Sanskrit corpus and dictionary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088487.23782.17490558125843666592.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1856 Lines: 68 Dear Oliver, Wonderful work indeed... I just sent your link to a specialist of ancient Greek who is currently writing a paper on digital humanities and especially on the?Thesaurus Linguae Graecae?(TLG,?www.tlg.uci.edu). I copy his answer here, just for fun:"C'est extr?mement impressionnant... Une bonne g?n?ration plus avanc? que le TLG !"? Many thanks for sharing this ! Pascale Haag. --- En date de?: Ven 12.2.10, amba kulkarni a ?crit?: De: amba kulkarni Objet: Re: Digital Sanskrit corpus and dictionary ?: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Vendredi 12 F?vrier 2010, 22h10 Dear Oliver, It is simple awful. I am sure the indologists will benefit from this, and this tool will provide a new dimension to the indology research. It will be great if we can make all the electronically available Sanskrit texts indexed this way! with warm regards, Amba Kulkarni Reader and Head Department of Sanskrit Studies University of Hyderabad 040 23133802(off) http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in On 12 February 2010 15:40, Oliver Hellwig wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > I would like to announce that a digital corpus of lemmatized Sanskrit texts > is now available at > > http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/ > > The corpus contains more than 2.500.000 manually annotated entries. It > offers the possibilities to search for lemmata and collocations and > presents > lists of referenced finite and infinite forms of each verbal lemma > contained > in the lexical database. In addition, the corpus makes it possible to > examine the distribution of lexical units over the time using basic > statistical measures. > > > Best, > > Oliver Hellwig > > > PD Dr. Oliver Hellwig > S?dasien-Institut, Universit?t Heidelberg > Im Neuenheimer Feld 330 > 69120 Heidelberg > From hellwig7 at GMX.DE Sun Feb 14 09:48:38 2010 From: hellwig7 at GMX.DE (Oliver Hellwig) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 10 09:48:38 +0000 Subject: Sanskrit corpus Message-ID: <161227088495.23782.7184721190864698575.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 413 Lines: 21 Dear colleagues, many thanks for the positive feedback I got for the Sanskrit corpus in the past two days. Hope it will be useful for your work! At this place, I want to express my gratitude to Peter Gietz, HRA, University of Heidelberg, who was willing to host the corpus. Best, Oliver Hellwig --- PD Dr. Oliver Hellwig S?dasien-Institut, Universit?t Heidelberg Im Neuenheimer Feld 330 69120 Heidelberg From meulnbld at XS4ALL.NL Sun Feb 14 09:30:02 2010 From: meulnbld at XS4ALL.NL (G.J. Meulenbeld) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 10 10:30:02 +0100 Subject: Digital Sanskrit corpus and dictionary Message-ID: <161227088489.23782.3433911377598031813.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1049 Lines: 46 Dear Oliver, Many thanks for the efforts resulting in this extremely useful tool. Best wishes, Jan Meulenbeld ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oliver Hellwig" To: Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 11:10 AM Subject: Digital Sanskrit corpus and dictionary > Dear colleagues, > > I would like to announce that a digital corpus of lemmatized Sanskrit > texts > is now available at > > http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/ > > The corpus contains more than 2.500.000 manually annotated entries. It > offers the possibilities to search for lemmata and collocations and > presents > lists of referenced finite and infinite forms of each verbal lemma > contained > in the lexical database. In addition, the corpus makes it possible to > examine the distribution of lexical units over the time using basic > statistical measures. > > > Best, > > Oliver Hellwig > > > PD Dr. Oliver Hellwig > S?dasien-Institut, Universit?t Heidelberg > Im Neuenheimer Feld 330 > 69120 Heidelberg > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Feb 14 09:34:07 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 10 10:34:07 +0100 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ Message-ID: <161227088493.23782.5575465614703129655.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1296 Lines: 27 "Common misconceptions and misnomers" After a chat with my colleague Thomas Kintaert yesterday, I've added a section to the FAQ with the above title. The current subsections are: - 1 Wrong translations - 1.1 ?rtava - 2 False friends - 3 Common errors - 3.1 How to pronounce Mah?bh?rata and R?m?yana - 4 Common confusions - 4.1 K?l? and Kali - 4.2 Karma and K?ma But you can put what text or headings you like there. I thought this might encourage us to share our pet annoyances :-) Dominik From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Mon Feb 15 06:12:53 2010 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 10 22:12:53 -0800 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: <26340_1266212542_1266212542_4B78DEB2.20002@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227088506.23782.7002823088777208339.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 477 Lines: 16 Gary, Are you sure the persons concerned were not referring to the rivers Vara.naa and Asi (sometimes in a dvandva) that give rise to the name Vaaraa.nasii? First you speak of "stress accent," then you employ "lengthen and stress," and finally you speak only of "long." This puzzles me. Pl clarify which specific phonetic feature you have in mind. To turn to other irritating things, "Hindi" and "Hindu," misspelling of "Gandhi" as "Ghandhi" or "Ghandi". ashok aklujkar From tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Feb 15 05:42:10 2010 From: tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU (Gary Tubb) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 10 23:42:10 -0600 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088503.23782.502308788232074760.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2192 Lines: 48 I am tempted to add, in the section on mispronunciations, an entry on "vaaraaNasii" (as the name of the city), with a note to the effect that, for the same reasons as given for "mahaabhaarata" and "raamaayaNa," the third syllable in this name is the least appropriate place to apply a stress accent. But I have been struck over the years by the frequency with which many people I respect as experts on Banaras habitually lengthen and stress the vowel in the third syllable---so much so that I wonder whether they might be following some local tradition unknown to me, despite the official spelling of the name. Are they? Is there any good reason to make the third "a" vowel in "Varanasi" long? --- Gary Tubb, Professor and Chair Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations The University of Chicago Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > "Common misconceptions and misnomers" > > After a chat with my colleague Thomas Kintaert yesterday, I've added a > section to the FAQ with the above title. The current subsections are: > > > - 1 Wrong translations > - 1.1 ?rtava > - 2 False friends > - 3 Common errors > - 3.1 How to pronounce Mah?bh?rata and > R?m?yana > - 4 Common confusions > - 4.1 K?l? and > Kali > - 4.2 Karma and > K?ma > > > But you can put what text or headings you like there. > > I thought this might encourage us to share our pet annoyances :-) > > Dominik > From fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU Mon Feb 15 08:04:54 2010 From: fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU (FRITS STAAL) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 00:04:54 -0800 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088512.23782.9988414400503301773.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2886 Lines: 96 I spent one year in the city and visited it countless times and never heard one native pronounce its name as VaranAAsi but always as (in emailese and without any stress accent): VarANasi. cheers, > Yield to temptation, please Gary :-) > > I think the VaranAAsi pronouncers are just influenced by norms of English > word rhythm, and copying each other. > > Dominik > > On 15 February 2010 06:42, Gary Tubb wrote: > >> I am tempted to add, in the section on mispronunciations, an entry on >> "vaaraaNasii" (as the name of the city), with a note to the effect that, >> for >> the same reasons as given for "mahaabhaarata" and "raamaayaNa," the >> third >> syllable in this name is the least appropriate place to apply a stress >> accent. But I have been struck over the years by the frequency with >> which >> many people I respect as experts on Banaras habitually lengthen and >> stress >> the vowel in the third syllable---so much so that I wonder whether they >> might be following some local tradition unknown to me, despite the >> official >> spelling of the name. Are they? Is there any good reason to make the >> third >> "a" vowel in "Varanasi" long? >> >> --- >> Gary Tubb, Professor and Chair >> Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations >> The University of Chicago >> >> >> >> >> Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >> >>> "Common misconceptions and misnomers" >>> >>> After a chat with my colleague Thomas Kintaert yesterday, I've added a >>> section to the FAQ with the above title. The current subsections are: >>> >>> >>> - 1 Wrong translations< >>> http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#Wrong_translations >>> > >>> - 1.1 ?rtava< >>> http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#.C4.81rtava >>> > >>> - 2 False friends< >>> http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#False_friends >>> > >>> - 3 Common errors< >>> http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#Common_errors >>> > >>> >>> - 3.1 How to pronounce Mah?bh?rata and >>> R?m?yana< >>> http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#How_to_pronounce_Mah.C4.81bh.C4.81rata_and_R.C4.81m.C4.81yana >>> > >>> - 4 Common confusions< >>> http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#Common_confusions >>> > >>> - 4.1 K?l? and >>> Kali< >>> http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#K.C4.81l.C4.AB_and_Kali >>> > >>> - 4.2 Karma and >>> K?ma< >>> http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#Karma_and_K.C4.81ma >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> But you can put what text or headings you like there. >>> >>> I thought this might encourage us to share our pet annoyances :-) >>> >>> Dominik >>> >>> >> > Frits Staal http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/staal From eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM Mon Feb 15 12:12:05 2010 From: eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM (Dean Michael Anderson) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 04:12:05 -0800 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088536.23782.17957488307068586252.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 488 Lines: 7 Based on my experience living in Vaaraanasi for a while, the natives always pronounce it that way. Only the foreigners pronounce it Vaaranaasi. But many of the natives also use the Hindi (Urdu?) form of Banaaras which, of course, puts the accent on the second to last syllable like the mispronounced form. It may have something to do with it but it's more likely simply due to English accent habits. Unless there is an Urdu/Persian rule I don't know about. Best, Dean Michael Anderson From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Feb 15 04:45:01 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 05:45:01 +0100 Subject: Fwd: King's College Palaeography In-Reply-To: <0E3A3702B26D954F97407497EE16D4D801B8CD9B0FD5@EXMAIL.hws.edu> Message-ID: <161227088497.23782.1243286084611609952.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1857 Lines: 52 Dear colleague, News is circulating that the Chair of Palaeography at King's College London, David Ganz, is about to lose his job since KCL is in the process of eradicating 22 jobs in a manner that appears crude and inefficient. Teaching staff at KCL have raised the idea of college-wide salary reductions as a way of saving actual jobs and avoiding cuts like this, but at a meeting last week the college management dismissed such a collegial approach on the grounds that it was "not progressive". Here is part of the text from the Facebook page (see link below for full information): King?s College London is undertaking what they call ?strategic > disinvestment? and have informed our colleague, David Ganz, on Tuesday that > funding for the Chair in Palaeography will cease from 31 August this year, > when David will be out of a job. This is part of a wider context whereby all > academic staff in the School of Arts and Humanities at King?s have to > re-apply for their own jobs before the 1st March. They think this the ?most > humane way? of losing 22 academic posts. > > KCL's Chair is the only established chair in Palaeography in the UK (held > by our late members Julian Brown and Tilly de la Mare). I am, naturally, > writing on behalf of the Committee to express dismay at the loss of the > Chair but the more people who write in protest the better. > > The person to write to is: Professor Rick Trainor, The Principal, King?s > College, The Strand, London WC2R 2LS and copy to Professor Jan Palmowski, > Head of the School of Arts and Humanities." > Fuller details are available at: - http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=303202385890&ref=share And the link below leads to an easy online system for signing a petition about this matter: - http://www.petitiononline.com/spkcl10/ -- Dominik Wujastyk University of Vienna From rhayes at UNM.EDU Mon Feb 15 13:43:55 2010 From: rhayes at UNM.EDU (Richard Hayes) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 06:43:55 -0700 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: <10499_1266214382_4B78E5ED_10499_11_1_C79E25E5.3CC6%ashok.aklujkar@ubc.ca> Message-ID: <161227088541.23782.15626725637891114587.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 475 Lines: 15 On Feb 14, 2010, at 11:12 PM, Ashok Aklujkar wrote: > To turn to other irritating things, "Hindi" and "Hindu," misspelling of > "Gandhi" as "Ghandhi" or "Ghandi". In some dialects of American English, the ones in which Ghandi is the preferred spelling, one also finds references to a fellow known as the Bhudda, sometimes known as the Buddah. I wish I were joking. Richard Hayes Department of Philosophy MSC03 2140 1 University of New Mexico Albuquerque, NM 87131-0001 From rhayes at UNM.EDU Mon Feb 15 15:07:05 2010 From: rhayes at UNM.EDU (Richard P. Hayes) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 08:07:05 -0700 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: <4B795EE1.7080509@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227088552.23782.10171990449143913645.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1074 Lines: 26 On Mon, 2010-02-15 at 08:49 -0600, Gary Tubb wrote: > I should have been clearer. I was referring to the way that native > speakers of English often pronounce the name of the city, Varanasi. All this discussion of pronunciation prompts me to report a lecture I went to recently given by a Franciscan brother to an audience of 1200 people, most of them Catholics. To his great credit, the Franciscan was talking about how much modern Catholics have to learn from other spiritual traditions. I was compelled, however, to cringe repeatedly as the earnest Franciscan told us about Patanjaali (rhymes with "fat an' jolly") and Samkaara (Sam who?). The high point of the talk for me was the explanation of how mandaalas (rhymes with "man dollars" as pronounced in Boston) are used in the Hindi religion. It was with mixed feelings that I reflected on how the seeds sown by careful Indologists are now being reaped in quotidian popular culture around the world. -- Richard P. Hayes Department of Philosophy MSC03 2140 1 University of New Mexico Albuquerque, NM 87131-0001 From tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Feb 15 14:49:05 2010 From: tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU (Gary Tubb) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 08:49:05 -0600 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088546.23782.4683095700285918574.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 940 Lines: 30 Ashok, I should have been clearer. I was referring to the way that native speakers of English often pronounce the name of the city, Varanasi. And I had two features in mind: the stressing of the penultimate syllable, and the related pronouncing of the vowel in that syllable as more like a Sanskrit long "a" than a Sanskrit short "a". By "more like" I'm thinking of quality more than quantity. --Gary. Ashok Aklujkar wrote: > Gary, > > Are you sure the persons concerned were not referring to the rivers Vara.naa > and Asi (sometimes in a dvandva) that give rise to the name Vaaraa.nasii? > > First you speak of "stress accent," then you employ "lengthen and stress," > and finally you speak only of "long." This puzzles me. Pl clarify which > specific phonetic feature you have in mind. > > To turn to other irritating things, "Hindi" and "Hindu," misspelling of > "Gandhi" as "Ghandhi" or "Ghandi". > > ashok aklujkar > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Feb 15 07:58:19 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 08:58:19 +0100 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ In-Reply-To: <4B78DEB2.20002@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227088509.23782.3501509034293512728.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2536 Lines: 78 Yield to temptation, please Gary :-) I think the VaranAAsi pronouncers are just influenced by norms of English word rhythm, and copying each other. Dominik On 15 February 2010 06:42, Gary Tubb wrote: > I am tempted to add, in the section on mispronunciations, an entry on > "vaaraaNasii" (as the name of the city), with a note to the effect that, for > the same reasons as given for "mahaabhaarata" and "raamaayaNa," the third > syllable in this name is the least appropriate place to apply a stress > accent. But I have been struck over the years by the frequency with which > many people I respect as experts on Banaras habitually lengthen and stress > the vowel in the third syllable---so much so that I wonder whether they > might be following some local tradition unknown to me, despite the official > spelling of the name. Are they? Is there any good reason to make the third > "a" vowel in "Varanasi" long? > > --- > Gary Tubb, Professor and Chair > Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations > The University of Chicago > > > > > Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > >> "Common misconceptions and misnomers" >> >> After a chat with my colleague Thomas Kintaert yesterday, I've added a >> section to the FAQ with the above title. The current subsections are: >> >> >> - 1 Wrong translations< >> http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#Wrong_translations >> > >> - 1.1 ?rtava< >> http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#.C4.81rtava >> > >> - 2 False friends< >> http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#False_friends >> > >> - 3 Common errors< >> http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#Common_errors >> > >> >> - 3.1 How to pronounce Mah?bh?rata and >> R?m?yana< >> http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#How_to_pronounce_Mah.C4.81bh.C4.81rata_and_R.C4.81m.C4.81yana >> > >> - 4 Common confusions< >> http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#Common_confusions >> > >> - 4.1 K?l? and >> Kali< >> http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#K.C4.81l.C4.AB_and_Kali >> > >> - 4.2 Karma and >> K?ma< >> http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#Karma_and_K.C4.81ma >> > >> >> >> >> But you can put what text or headings you like there. >> >> I thought this might encourage us to share our pet annoyances :-) >> >> Dominik >> >> > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Feb 15 08:29:26 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 09:29:26 +0100 Subject: King's College Palaeography In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088515.23782.686450457218110963.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6671 Lines: 157 Well, as you probably know, Greg, I was made redundant myself last year by University College London. The redundancy procedures were interesting to observe (less fun to experience). There are lots of written rules issued by Human Resources that are meant to protect staff from redundancy, such as pooling of a department's staff to see whether a member's job can be saved through natural attrition, etc. But in the event, these protective rules are implemented very weakly or not at all. Nobody at the level of deans really seems to care about individual teaching staff, and research staff are at the very bottom of the pile, and extremely vulnerable. I am now at the University of Vienna, and very glad to be here. It's a fine place with many south asianists and much serious work going on. In the last budget, late last year, the Austrian Government kept funding levels for academic research level, and didn't cut them (as best I understand) in spite of the crunch. There are serious pressures here too, but they seem to revolve more around the problems arising out of the deep restructuring required by the Bologna Process rather than financial hardship. There were wide-scale student campus protests and occupations a few months ago, which were about over-crowding of classrooms and other issues. I am no longer particularly close to what's happening in the UK, but I still get get some admin emails from UCL and I know they are going through terrible convulsions with threatened redundancies and so forth, rather like KCL. The Unions are in action, and have never been more sorely needed. What distresses me most is the lack of creative vision or grasp of knowledge and discovery processes by the college principles and provosts, and of course the government ministers. All issues are viewed relentlessly through the metaphor of business and productivity, instead of education and creativity. And a deep and hostile cleavage has developed in most British universities between the senior administrators, deans and provosts, etc., and the working teachers and researchers (faculty). It's like some Victorian scenario of pit owners and miners. Britain no longer has a government department of Education. As of last June, universities are the responsibility of the "Department for Business, Innovation, and Skills" (see here) that is mostly made up of the old "Department of Trade." The word University isn't even part of the Department's title any longer. And the "vision" if one can dignify it with that word, is purely financial. Lord Mandelson is the head man. The opening words of the Department's websiteare: Our mission is building a dynamic and competitive UK economy by: creating > the conditions for business success; promoting innovation, enterprise and > science; and giving everyone the skills and opportunities to succeed. To > achieve this we will foster world-class universities and promote an open > global economy. > They're not ashamed of such a view, rather they trumpet it. The related rise of the "audit culture" that has been happein in higher education in Britain for two decades or more was brilliantly analysed in, Cris Shore and Susan Wright, "Audit Culture and Anthropology: Neo-Liberalism in British Higher Education", *The Journal of the Royal Anthropological Institute*, Vol. 5, No. 4. (Dec., 1999), pp. 557-575. [stable URL ] and revisited at greater length in, Marilyn Strathern (ed), *Audit Cultures: Anthropological Studies in Accountability, Ethics and the Academy* (Routledge, 2000).ISBN-13: 978-0415233279. [Google books. ] Best, Dominik On 15 February 2010 05:56, Greg Bailey wrote: > Dear Dominik, > > This is appalling and it is not just an attack on the individual but on the > humanities in general, if not of social-democratic values as well. > > I read an article in the Melbourne Age today quoting something from the > Guardian to the effect that thousands of jobs are to be lost in British > universities. Is that true? If so it will percolate elsewhere in the > Anglo-Saxon world, if not outside of it. > > Cheers, > > Greg Bailey > > > On 15/02/10 3:45 PM, "Dominik Wujastyk" wrote: > > > Dear colleague, > > > > News is circulating that the Chair of Palaeography at King's College > London, > > David Ganz, is about to lose his job since KCL is in the process of > > eradicating 22 jobs in a manner that appears crude and inefficient. > > > > Teaching staff at KCL have raised the idea of college-wide salary > reductions > > as a way of saving actual jobs and avoiding cuts like this, but at a > meeting > > last week the college management dismissed such a collegial approach on > the > > grounds that it was "not progressive". > > > > Here is part of the text from the Facebook page (see link below for full > > information): > > > > King?s College London is undertaking what they call ?strategic > >> disinvestment? and have informed our colleague, David Ganz, on Tuesday > that > >> funding for the Chair in Palaeography will cease from 31 August this > year, > >> when David will be out of a job. This is part of a wider context whereby > all > >> academic staff in the School of Arts and Humanities at King?s have to > >> re-apply for their own jobs before the 1st March. They think this the > ?most > >> humane way? of losing 22 academic posts. > >> > > > > > >> KCL's Chair is the only established chair in Palaeography in the UK > (held > >> by our late members Julian Brown and Tilly de la Mare). I am, naturally, > >> writing on behalf of the Committee to express dismay at the loss of the > >> Chair but the more people who write in protest the better. > >> > > > > > >> The person to write to is: Professor Rick Trainor, The Principal, King?s > >> College, The Strand, London WC2R 2LS and copy to Professor Jan > Palmowski, > >> Head of the School of Arts and Humanities." > >> > > > > Fuller details are available at: > > > > - http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=303202385890&ref=share > > > > And the link below leads to an easy online system for signing a petition > > about this matter: > > > > - http://www.petitiononline.com/spkcl10/ > > > > > > -- > > Dominik Wujastyk > > University of Vienna > From hwtull at MSN.COM Mon Feb 15 14:31:37 2010 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 09:31:37 -0500 Subject: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ In-Reply-To: <448542.74138.qm@web8603.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088544.23782.8449638718597103791.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3978 Lines: 108 But, at least we can say it is a good thing that these words (mispronounced and misspelled as they are) have come into the general lexicon. By the way, I must admit to having more than once ordered a Paanini when I should have been asking for a Paniini; confusing a grammarian with a grilled turkey sandwich. I guess this goes both ways! (In fact, as a a result of my misadventures in pronunciation, I am now utterly terrified by having to order one of these sandwiches.) But, then, I also once asked for "bed bugs" rather than "curds" in my terribly broken Telegu. Herman Tull -------------------------------------------------- From: "Dipak Bhattacharya" Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:56 AM To: Subject: Re: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ > 15 02 10 > Kittel?s transliteration gives v?ran?si but the Kanna? word is written > ??????? that is v?r??asi. Could the given transliteration be a printing > error? > To the wrong pronunciations add Himalaya for Him?laya and Panini for > P??ini. But It is no use counting them, they are a legion. > Best for all > DB > > --- On Mon, 15/2/10, Jean-Luc Chevillard > wrote: > > > From: Jean-Luc Chevillard > Subject: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Monday, 15 February, 2010, 4:59 PM > > > As a post-scriptum to my first remark, > I want to addd that I have just had a look at Kittel's Kannada-English > dictionary > > it contains on page 1392 > an entry "v?ra??si" > and the authority given is "Bp. 54, 65; 58, 34; My." > > The list abbreviations gives > > Bp. = "Basava pur??a. Bibliotheca Carn?taka, Mangalore, 1850" > > If as early as the 6th century, which is a date often given for the Tamil > /Ma?im?kalai /, we find the spelling v?ra??ci, > and if that spelling has remained the norm in Tamil > [See: > ] > there must be a reason. > > It would be interesting to have additional data for other indian languages > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS, Paris) > > > > Le 2/15/2010 10:43 AM, Jean-Luc Chevillard a ?crit : >> I would be interested in having comments >> on the Tamil form: ??????? [v?ra??ci]. >> >> See the Tamil Lexicon (p. 3610) >> >> ??????? v?ra??ci, n. < V?ra?as?. Benares, situate between the rivers >> Vara?? and As?; ????. ??????????? ???????????? (???. 13, 3). >> >> See also another entry (p.3609), which gives a different spelling. >> >> ?????? v?ra?aci, n. < v?ra?as?. See ???????. (????. ??.) >> >> The authority quoted by the Tamil Lexicon for the spelling v?ra??ci is >> the Ma?im?kalai >> and comes from the chapter that tells the story of ?????????. >> >> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris) >> >> >> Le 2/15/2010 6:42 AM, Gary Tubb a ?crit : >>> I am tempted to add, in the section on mispronunciations, an entry on >>> "vaaraaNasii" (as the name of the city), with a note to the effect that, >>> for the same reasons as given for "mahaabhaarata" and "raamaayaNa," the >>> third syllable in this name is the least appropriate place to apply a >>> stress accent. But I have been struck over the years by the frequency >>> with which many people I respect as experts on Banaras habitually >>> lengthen and stress the vowel in the third syllable---so much so that I >>> wonder whether they might be following some local tradition unknown to >>> me, despite the official spelling of the name. Are they? Is there any >>> good reason to make the third "a" vowel in "Varanasi" long? >>> >>> --- >>> Gary Tubb, Professor and Chair >>> Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations >>> The University of Chicago >>> >> > > > > Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! > http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Mon Feb 15 14:52:01 2010 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 09:52:01 -0500 Subject: Address of Alaka Hejib-Agera Message-ID: <161227088549.23782.10678746255134225614.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 544 Lines: 27 Dear All, could you give me the current email and/or address of Alaka Hejib- Agera? She got her Harvard PhD in 1984: Hejib, Alaka. ?ha, Gha and Ha in the ?gveda / by Alaka Hejib. 1984. Please answer privately to : witzel at fas.harvard.edu Thanks! Michael ============ Michael Witzel witzel at fas.harvard.edu Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University 1 Bow Street, Cambridge MA 02138, USA phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; my direct line: 617- 496 2990 From rhayes at UNM.EDU Mon Feb 15 17:20:57 2010 From: rhayes at UNM.EDU (Richard P. Hayes) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 10:20:57 -0700 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: <20100215105201.CJS79264@m4500-02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227088574.23782.855083905382140906.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 397 Lines: 13 On Mon, 2010-02-15 at 10:52 -0600, mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU wrote: > Isn't every one being a bit too precious about all this? > What do French speakers do with English names? You're right, of course. Look at what a mess the French made of the English word Illinois! You caught us showing off our erudition. Richard of Albuquerque (a city the name of which 97% of its residents mispronounce) From fp7 at COLUMBIA.EDU Mon Feb 15 15:24:28 2010 From: fp7 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Frances Pritchett) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 10:24:28 -0500 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: <1266246425.1987.8.camel@rhayes-desktop> Message-ID: <161227088555.23782.50194625675352770.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1137 Lines: 29 And moving on from VaraNAAsi, let's not forget that other great cultural center, the POON-jab. Fran Richard P. Hayes wrote: > On Mon, 2010-02-15 at 08:49 -0600, Gary Tubb wrote: > > >> I should have been clearer. I was referring to the way that native >> speakers of English often pronounce the name of the city, Varanasi. >> > > All this discussion of pronunciation prompts me to report a lecture I > went to recently given by a Franciscan brother to an audience of 1200 > people, most of them Catholics. To his great credit, the Franciscan was > talking about how much modern Catholics have to learn from other > spiritual traditions. I was compelled, however, to cringe repeatedly as > the earnest Franciscan told us about Patanjaali (rhymes with "fat an' > jolly") and Samkaara (Sam who?). The high point of the talk for me was > the explanation of how mandaalas (rhymes with "man dollars" as > pronounced in Boston) are used in the Hindi religion. It was with mixed > feelings that I reflected on how the seeds sown by careful Indologists > are now being reaped in quotidian popular culture around the world. > > From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Mon Feb 15 15:43:46 2010 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 10:43:46 -0500 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: <4B79672C.1040509@columbia.edu> Message-ID: <161227088558.23782.16172200623390539599.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1764 Lines: 43 And to add to that, I recently met someone who had visited the city of Pune (pronounced with a '-une' as in "immune"). He went there from the city of Mumbai (with "-umb" as in "numb"). Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Frances Pritchett [fp7 at COLUMBIA.EDU] Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 10:24 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi And moving on from VaraNAAsi, let's not forget that other great cultural center, the POON-jab. Fran Richard P. Hayes wrote: > On Mon, 2010-02-15 at 08:49 -0600, Gary Tubb wrote: > > >> I should have been clearer. I was referring to the way that native >> speakers of English often pronounce the name of the city, Varanasi. >> > > All this discussion of pronunciation prompts me to report a lecture I > went to recently given by a Franciscan brother to an audience of 1200 > people, most of them Catholics. To his great credit, the Franciscan was > talking about how much modern Catholics have to learn from other > spiritual traditions. I was compelled, however, to cringe repeatedly as > the earnest Franciscan told us about Patanjaali (rhymes with "fat an' > jolly") and Samkaara (Sam who?). The high point of the talk for me was > the explanation of how mandaalas (rhymes with "man dollars" as > pronounced in Boston) are used in the Hindi religion. It was with mixed > feelings that I reflected on how the seeds sown by careful Indologists > are now being reaped in quotidian popular culture around the world. > > From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Mon Feb 15 09:43:51 2010 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 10:43:51 +0100 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ In-Reply-To: <4B78DEB2.20002@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227088521.23782.3865124105418332683.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1457 Lines: 40 I would be interested in having comments on the Tamil form: ??????? [v?ra??ci]. See the Tamil Lexicon (p. 3610) ??????? v?ra??ci, n. < V?ra?as?. Benares, situate between the rivers Vara?? and As?; ????. ??????????? ???????????? (???. 13, 3). See also another entry (p.3609), which gives a different spelling. ?????? v?ra?aci, n. < v?ra?as?. See ???????. (????. ??.) The authority quoted by the Tamil Lexicon for the spelling v?ra??ci is the Ma?im?kalai and comes from the chapter that tells the story of ?????????. -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris) Le 2/15/2010 6:42 AM, Gary Tubb a ?crit : > I am tempted to add, in the section on mispronunciations, an entry on > "vaaraaNasii" (as the name of the city), with a note to the effect > that, for the same reasons as given for "mahaabhaarata" and > "raamaayaNa," the third syllable in this name is the least appropriate > place to apply a stress accent. But I have been struck over the years > by the frequency with which many people I respect as experts on > Banaras habitually lengthen and stress the vowel in the third > syllable---so much so that I wonder whether they might be following > some local tradition unknown to me, despite the official spelling of > the name. Are they? Is there any good reason to make the third "a" > vowel in "Varanasi" long? > > --- > Gary Tubb, Professor and Chair > Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations > The University of Chicago > From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Feb 15 16:52:01 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 10:52:01 -0600 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088568.23782.10558547496749650302.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 555 Lines: 21 Isn't every one being a bit too precious about all this? What do French speakers do with English names? What does everyone do with Chinese? How many of us get our Arabic quite right? Not to mention Thai, Tibetan or Khmer... The idea that one is going to launch a campaign to rectify the massacre of Indian names and terms in English is plain silly when you think about it. Matthew Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From jkirk at SPRO.NET Mon Feb 15 18:02:10 2010 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 11:02:10 -0700 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088589.23782.18244576216470761022.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 552 Lines: 30 Well, his surname suggests that his ancestors came from the northern Iran area known as Rusht, as in (Eng.) 'rushed'. But who knows how he pronounces it. Joanna K. ======================== God yes. And the author, Salman Rooshdie? (Has anyone heard him pronounce his own name? Not that that would be convincing evidence to an indologist :-) Dominik On 15 February 2010 16:24, Frances Pritchett wrote: > And moving on from VaraNAAsi, let's not forget that other great > cultural center, the POON-jab. > > Fran > > From klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI Mon Feb 15 09:22:45 2010 From: klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI (Klaus Karttunen) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 11:22:45 +0200 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088518.23782.15446523887539220754.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1760 Lines: 45 Hi, This seems nice idea. Among common confusions, I think, Budha/Buddha and ?astra/??stra should be added. Best, Klaus Karttunen Professor of South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies Institute for Asian and African Studies PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674 Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094 Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi On Feb 14, 2010, at 11:34 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > "Common misconceptions and misnomers" > > After a chat with my colleague Thomas Kintaert yesterday, I've added a > section to the FAQ with the above title. The current subsections are: > > > - 1 Wrong translations > - 1.1 ?rtava > - 2 False friends > - 3 Common errors > - 3.1 How to pronounce Mah?bh?rata and > R?m?yana > - 4 Common confusions > - 4.1 K?l? and > Kali > - 4.2 Karma and > K?ma > > > But you can put what text or headings you like there. > > I thought this might encourage us to share our pet annoyances :-) > > Dominik > From tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Feb 15 17:28:28 2010 From: tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU (Gary Tubb) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 11:28:28 -0600 Subject: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ In-Reply-To: <4B796C76.5060609@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <161227088580.23782.2326692616833873908.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7075 Lines: 199 This is exactly the sort of thing I was wondering about when I brought up the matter of the pronunciation of Varanasi. The data from Kannada is very interesting, as is the contrast with Malayalam.. Velcheru Narayana Rao informs me that "in Telugu speech it is vaaranaasi. (The third syllable long, and also the last vowel short.)" So it does appear that, unlike the words "Mahabharata" and "Ramayana," for "Varanasi" there are strong, though regional, traditions supporting a second pronunciation. --Gary. Gary Tubb, Professor and Chair Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations The University of Chicago Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: > Dear Herman, > Dear Professor Bhattacharya, > > I wonder whether it is a precise characterization > (from a descriptive linguistics point of view) > to use the words "mispronounced" and "misspelled". > > In my edition of Kittel, > supposed to be an AES reprint of the 1894 edition, > both spellings are mentionned on the page 1392 : > > "???????" [v?ra??si] is explained as being the same as "???????" [v?r??asi] > but some textual reference is given. > > "???????" [v?r??asi] appears slightly lower on the page > and has a longer entry, also containing textual references. > > The strategy seen in Kittel seems to be the contrary > of the strategy seen in the Madras Tamil Lexicon, > where ??????? [v?ra??ci] is the main entry. > (and there is a secondary entry ?????? [v?ranaci] > > Additionally, > unless I am mistaken > (which can very well happen, because I know almost nothing about > Kannada and rely on electronic transcoding tools), > A google search for those two forms shows that: > > "???????" [v?ra??si] occurs approximately 677 000 times on the internet > > "???????" [v?r??asi] occurs approximately 132 000 times on the internet > > The "incorrect" form seems to be 5 times more frequent than the > "correct" form. > > I am convinced that this means something, > at least concerning the speakers of some Modern Indian languages > because 677 000 "incorrect" forms cannot simply be ignored > (or wiped away from the realm of "linguistic facts"). > > They have a massive presence in the linguistic abilities of their users > (I am alluding here to what I understand to be the topic of Morris > Halle's 1985 article > "Speculations about the Representation of Words in Memory") > > Malayalam seems to have quite a different "habitus": > > We find, with Google, as of today (15th february 2010): > > 3 690 occurrences of ??????? [v?ra??si] > > 646 000 occurrences of ??????? [v?r??asi] > > This is quite different from the figures for Kannada!! > > What about other Indian modern languages? > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard > > (CNRS, Universit? Paris-Diderot, > UMR7597: "Laboratoire d'Histoire des Th?ories Linguistiques") > > > Le 2/15/2010 3:31 PM, Herman Tull a ?crit : >> But, at least we can say it is a good thing that these words >> (mispronounced and misspelled as they are) have come into the general >> lexicon. >> >> By the way, I must admit to having more than once ordered a Paanini >> when I should have been asking for a Paniini; confusing a grammarian >> with a grilled turkey sandwich. I guess this goes both ways! (In >> fact, as a a result of my misadventures in pronunciation, I am now >> utterly terrified by having to order one of these sandwiches.) But, >> then, I also once asked for "bed bugs" rather than "curds" in my >> terribly broken Telegu. >> >> Herman Tull >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Dipak Bhattacharya" >> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:56 AM >> To: >> Subject: Re: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ >> >>> 15 02 10 >>> Kittel?s transliteration gives v?ran?si but the Kanna? word is >>> written ??????? that is v?r??asi. Could the given transliteration be >>> a printing error? >>> To the wrong pronunciations add Himalaya for Him?laya and Panini for >>> P??ini. But It is no use counting them, they are a legion. >>> Best for all >>> DB >>> >>> --- On Mon, 15/2/10, Jean-Luc Chevillard >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> From: Jean-Luc Chevillard >>> Subject: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ >>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>> Date: Monday, 15 February, 2010, 4:59 PM >>> >>> >>> As a post-scriptum to my first remark, >>> I want to addd that I have just had a look at Kittel's >>> Kannada-English dictionary >>> >>> it contains on page 1392 >>> an entry "v?ra??si" >>> and the authority given is "Bp. 54, 65; 58, 34; My." >>> >>> The list abbreviations gives >>> >>> Bp. = "Basava pur??a. Bibliotheca Carn?taka, Mangalore, 1850" >>> >>> If as early as the 6th century, which is a date often given for the >>> Tamil /Ma?im?kalai /, we find the spelling v?ra??ci, >>> and if that spelling has remained the norm in Tamil >>> [See: >>> ] >>> >>> there must be a reason. >>> >>> It would be interesting to have additional data for other indian >>> languages >>> >>> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS, Paris) >>> >>> >>> >>> Le 2/15/2010 10:43 AM, Jean-Luc Chevillard a ?crit : >>>> I would be interested in having comments >>>> on the Tamil form: ??????? [v?ra??ci]. >>>> >>>> See the Tamil Lexicon (p. 3610) >>>> >>>> ??????? v?ra??ci, n. < V?ra?as?. Benares, situate between the >>>> rivers Vara?? and As?; ????. ??????????? ???????????? (???. 13, 3). >>>> >>>> See also another entry (p.3609), which gives a different spelling. >>>> >>>> ?????? v?ra?aci, n. < v?ra?as?. See ???????. (????. ??.) >>>> >>>> The authority quoted by the Tamil Lexicon for the spelling v?ra??ci >>>> is the Ma?im?kalai >>>> and comes from the chapter that tells the story of ?????????. >>>> >>>> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris) >>>> >>>> >>>> Le 2/15/2010 6:42 AM, Gary Tubb a ?crit : >>>>> I am tempted to add, in the section on mispronunciations, an entry >>>>> on "vaaraaNasii" (as the name of the city), with a note to the >>>>> effect that, for the same reasons as given for "mahaabhaarata" and >>>>> "raamaayaNa," the third syllable in this name is the least >>>>> appropriate place to apply a stress accent. But I have been >>>>> struck over the years by the frequency with which many people I >>>>> respect as experts on Banaras habitually lengthen and stress the >>>>> vowel in the third syllable---so much so that I wonder whether >>>>> they might be following some local tradition unknown to me, >>>>> despite the official spelling of the name. Are they? Is there >>>>> any good reason to make the third "a" vowel in "Varanasi" long? >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> Gary Tubb, Professor and Chair >>>>> Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations >>>>> The University of Chicago >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it >>> NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ >>> >> From Peter.Bisschop at ED.AC.UK Mon Feb 15 11:37:05 2010 From: Peter.Bisschop at ED.AC.UK (Peter Bisschop) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 11:37:05 +0000 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ In-Reply-To: <4B791757.4080308@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <161227088528.23782.8028536311855007042.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2388 Lines: 75 A brief note on the history of the derivation of the name Vaaraa.nasii. While the name of the town is indeed commonly connected to the two rivers Vara.naa and Asi, earlier sources (in particular the original Skandapuraa.na) rather connect it to the name of the river Varaa.nasii (nowadays known as Vara.naa). See Skandapuraa.na Vol. IIA (The Vaaraa.nasii Cycle), edited by Hans Bakker and Harunaga Isaacson, Groningen 2004, p. 222. Peter Bisschop --- Dr Peter Bisschop Asian Studies University of Edinburgh 7/8 Buccleuch Place Edinburgh EH8 9LW Scotland, U.K. e-mail: Peter.Bisschop at ed.ac.uk phone: +(0)131 650 4174 http://www.asianstudies.ed.ac.uk/staff/bisschop.htm On 15 Feb 2010, at 09:43, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: > I would be interested in having comments > on the Tamil form: ??????? [v?ra??ci]. > > See the Tamil Lexicon (p. 3610) > > ??????? v?ra??ci, n. < V?ra?as?. Benares, > situate between the rivers Vara?? and As?; ????. > ??????????? > ???????????? (???. 13, 3). > > See also another entry (p.3609), which gives a different spelling. > > ?????? v?ra?aci, n. < v?ra?as?. See > ???????. (????. ??.) > > The authority quoted by the Tamil Lexicon for the spelling > v?ra??ci is the Ma?im?kalai > and comes from the chapter that tells the story of > ?????????. > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris) > > > Le 2/15/2010 6:42 AM, Gary Tubb a ?crit : >> I am tempted to add, in the section on mispronunciations, an entry >> on "vaaraaNasii" (as the name of the city), with a note to the >> effect that, for the same reasons as given for "mahaabhaarata" and >> "raamaayaNa," the third syllable in this name is the least >> appropriate place to apply a stress accent. But I have been >> struck over the years by the frequency with which many people I >> respect as experts on Banaras habitually lengthen and stress the >> vowel in the third syllable---so much so that I wonder whether >> they might be following some local tradition unknown to me, >> despite the official spelling of the name. Are they? Is there >> any good reason to make the third "a" vowel in "Varanasi" long? >> >> --- >> Gary Tubb, Professor and Chair >> Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations >> The University of Chicago >> > The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. From kiparsky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU Mon Feb 15 19:37:14 2010 From: kiparsky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU (Paul Kiparsky) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 11:37:14 -0800 Subject: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088601.23782.2436202836975799375.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2892 Lines: 64 In Europe, the names used abroad tend to be older, rather than new and altered! Obviously Cologne and Monaco are is closer to the original than K?ln and Munchen, etc. More interestingly, the English use the original Celtic name Ratisbon for German Regensburg, which comes from the later Roman name Castra Regina. And 's-Hertogenbosch may be a translation of Bois-le-Duc and not the other way round (for the duke in question was presumably French-speaking). I'd be surprised if there aren't such cases in India too. PK On Feb 15, 2010, at 10:50 AM, Robert Zydenbos wrote: > One should also keep in mind, in all these discussions about > ??????? (the only pronunciation I have ever heard in > Karnataka; note the short i at the end), ?????, > ???????, etc. etc., that old and famous cities tend to > acquire new or altered names in speech areas far away from where > those cities are. > > Europe is full of such examples. In Dutch, Wien becomes 'Wenen', > Paris becomes 'Parijs', Berlin is 'Berlijn'; K?ln becomes 'Keulen' > in Dutch and 'Cologne' in French and English. Dutch cities like > Arnhem and Nijmegen become 'Arnheim' and 'Nimwegen' in German, and > 's-Hertogenbosch and 's-Gravenhage become 'Bois-le-Duc' and 'The > Hague' in English. M?nchen becomes 'Munich' in English and 'Monaco' > in Italian (and the latest, Sanskrit name, which I would like to > publicize here, is Mun??anagara). > > The list goes on and on. The reasons for all these metamorphoses > are manifold, and differ from language to language: some reasons > are internal (general phonetic patterns of the language), some > historical (e.g., the British using French names for whatever is > just on the other side of the water). > > Compared to what Europeans have been doing on their continent (or > the British in India: ?r?ra?gapa??a?a > Seringapatam, > ??umpur > Egmore), I find the Indian variations on V?r??as? > quite modest. > > As for the variations in Kannada: I suspect that 'v?ra??si' is a > distorted form that may at first have been borrowed from Tamil, > since it is ?iva's city, and much, though not all, ?aiva lore came > to Karnataka from Tamilnadu (historical reason; note that the > references in the Kittel dictionary are from the Basavapur??a, a > ?aiva work; but the same text also contains 'v?r??asi', and > Kittel has also found 'vara?asi'); and at some later time, so I > imagine, it was realized that the proper pronunciation is > 'v?r??as?' (but Kannadigas always shorten the final ? in loan > words: internal reason), which is why I have never heard anything > else. > > RZ > > Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos > Department f?r Asienstudien - Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie > Universit?t M?nchen (i.e., Munich, Monaco, Mun??anagara) > Deutschland > Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 > Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827 From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET Mon Feb 15 11:49:08 2010 From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 11:49:08 +0000 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ In-Reply-To: <76E77AA6-F749-4A39-B58D-3D3B377394AE@helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <161227088530.23782.7585975993401514564.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2160 Lines: 66 On pronunciation, could someone please include Parvati (pArvatI)and Nagini (nAginI)--though it's probably too late for the remaining Harry Potter films! And Ravana (rAvaNa), whose name is regularly mangled in retellings of the Ramayana. Thank you. Valerie At 11:22 am +0200 15/2/10, Klaus Karttunen wrote: >Hi, >This seems nice idea. Among common confusions, I >think, Budha/Buddha and s?astra/s?a?stra should >be added. >Best, > >Klaus Karttunen >Professor of South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies >Institute for Asian and African Studies >PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) >00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND >Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674 >Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094 >Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi > > > >On Feb 14, 2010, at 11:34 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > >> "Common misconceptions and misnomers" >> >> After a chat with my colleague Thomas Kintaert yesterday, I've added a >> section to the FAQ with the above title. The current subsections are: >> >> >> - 1 Wrong >>translations >> - 1.1 >>a?rtava >> - 2 False >>friends >> - 3 Common >>errors >> - 3.1 How to pronounce Maha?bha?rata and >> >>Ra?ma?yana >> - 4 Common >>confusions >> - 4.1 Ka?li? and >> >>Kali >> - 4.2 Karma and >> >>Ka?ma >> >> >> But you can put what text or headings you like there. >> >> I thought this might encourage us to share our pet annoyances :-) >> >> Dominik >> From vbd203 at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Mon Feb 15 17:55:44 2010 From: vbd203 at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (victor davella) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 11:55:44 -0600 Subject: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ In-Reply-To: <4B79843C.2050009@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227088586.23782.15685991387076377212.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7947 Lines: 221 Note the Telugu wikipedia page on ???? (???????). Although I can't make out everything it says, there is a discussion about the alternate name ??????? from "????", "?????." Brown only gives ??????? as ???? ??????? and the analysis *v?ra?-?si*. He says nothing of the spelling ??????? which may have been introduced into Telugu recently and in imitation of the northern name. In this case there doesn't seem to be a mispronunciation but the correct pronunciation of a different name which is perhaps also the case for the English pronunciation Victor D'Avella PhD Candidate University of Chicago SALC On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Gary Tubb wrote: > This is exactly the sort of thing I was wondering about when I brought up > the matter of the pronunciation of Varanasi. The data from Kannada is very > interesting, as is the contrast with Malayalam.. > > Velcheru Narayana Rao informs me that "in Telugu speech it is vaaranaasi. > (The third syllable long, and also the last vowel short.)" > > So it does appear that, unlike the words "Mahabharata" and "Ramayana," for > "Varanasi" there are strong, though regional, traditions supporting a second > pronunciation. > > --Gary. > > > Gary Tubb, Professor and Chair > Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations > The University of Chicago > > > > > Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: > >> Dear Herman, >> Dear Professor Bhattacharya, >> >> I wonder whether it is a precise characterization >> (from a descriptive linguistics point of view) >> to use the words "mispronounced" and "misspelled". >> >> In my edition of Kittel, >> supposed to be an AES reprint of the 1894 edition, >> both spellings are mentionned on the page 1392 : >> >> "???????" [v?ra??si] is explained as being the same as "???????" >> [v?r??asi] >> but some textual reference is given. >> >> "???????" [v?r??asi] appears slightly lower on the page >> and has a longer entry, also containing textual references. >> >> The strategy seen in Kittel seems to be the contrary >> of the strategy seen in the Madras Tamil Lexicon, >> where ??????? [v?ra??ci] is the main entry. >> (and there is a secondary entry ?????? [v?ranaci] >> >> Additionally, >> unless I am mistaken >> (which can very well happen, because I know almost nothing about Kannada >> and rely on electronic transcoding tools), >> A google search for those two forms shows that: >> >> "???????" [v?ra??si] occurs approximately 677 000 times on the internet >> >> "???????" [v?r??asi] occurs approximately 132 000 times on the internet >> >> The "incorrect" form seems to be 5 times more frequent than the "correct" >> form. >> >> I am convinced that this means something, >> at least concerning the speakers of some Modern Indian languages >> because 677 000 "incorrect" forms cannot simply be ignored >> (or wiped away from the realm of "linguistic facts"). >> >> They have a massive presence in the linguistic abilities of their users >> (I am alluding here to what I understand to be the topic of Morris Halle's >> 1985 article >> "Speculations about the Representation of Words in Memory") >> >> Malayalam seems to have quite a different "habitus": >> >> We find, with Google, as of today (15th february 2010): >> >> 3 690 occurrences of ??????? [v?ra??si] >> >> 646 000 occurrences of ??????? [v?r??asi] >> >> This is quite different from the figures for Kannada!! >> >> What about other Indian modern languages? >> >> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard >> >> (CNRS, Universit? Paris-Diderot, >> UMR7597: "Laboratoire d'Histoire des Th?ories Linguistiques") >> >> >> Le 2/15/2010 3:31 PM, Herman Tull a ?crit : >> >>> But, at least we can say it is a good thing that these words >>> (mispronounced and misspelled as they are) have come into the general >>> lexicon. >>> >>> By the way, I must admit to having more than once ordered a Paanini when >>> I should have been asking for a Paniini; confusing a grammarian with a >>> grilled turkey sandwich. I guess this goes both ways! (In fact, as a a >>> result of my misadventures in pronunciation, I am now utterly terrified by >>> having to order one of these sandwiches.) But, then, I also once asked for >>> "bed bugs" rather than "curds" in my terribly broken Telegu. >>> >>> Herman Tull >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Dipak Bhattacharya" >>> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:56 AM >>> To: >>> Subject: Re: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ >>> >>> 15 02 10 >>>> Kittel?s transliteration gives v?ran?si but the Kanna? word is written >>>> ??????? that is v?r??asi. Could the given transliteration be a printing >>>> error? >>>> To the wrong pronunciations add Himalaya for Him?laya and Panini for >>>> P??ini. But It is no use counting them, they are a legion. >>>> Best for all >>>> DB >>>> >>>> --- On Mon, 15/2/10, Jean-Luc Chevillard < >>>> jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Jean-Luc Chevillard >>>> Subject: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ >>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>>> Date: Monday, 15 February, 2010, 4:59 PM >>>> >>>> >>>> As a post-scriptum to my first remark, >>>> I want to addd that I have just had a look at Kittel's Kannada-English >>>> dictionary >>>> >>>> it contains on page 1392 >>>> an entry "v?ra??si" >>>> and the authority given is "Bp. 54, 65; 58, 34; My." >>>> >>>> The list abbreviations gives >>>> >>>> Bp. = "Basava pur??a. Bibliotheca Carn?taka, Mangalore, 1850" >>>> >>>> If as early as the 6th century, which is a date often given for the >>>> Tamil /Ma?im?kalai /, we find the spelling v?ra??ci, >>>> and if that spelling has remained the norm in Tamil >>>> [See: < >>>> http://ta.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%AE%B5%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%B0%E0%AE%A3%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%9A%E0%AE%BF>] >>>> >>>> there must be a reason. >>>> >>>> It would be interesting to have additional data for other indian >>>> languages >>>> >>>> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS, Paris) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Le 2/15/2010 10:43 AM, Jean-Luc Chevillard a ?crit : >>>> >>>>> I would be interested in having comments >>>>> on the Tamil form: ??????? [v?ra??ci]. >>>>> >>>>> See the Tamil Lexicon (p. 3610) >>>>> >>>>> ??????? v?ra??ci, n. < V?ra?as?. Benares, situate between the rivers >>>>> Vara?? and As?; ????. ??????????? ???????????? (???. 13, 3). >>>>> >>>>> See also another entry (p.3609), which gives a different spelling. >>>>> >>>>> ?????? v?ra?aci, n. < v?ra?as?. See ???????. (????. ??.) >>>>> >>>>> The authority quoted by the Tamil Lexicon for the spelling v?ra??ci is >>>>> the Ma?im?kalai >>>>> and comes from the chapter that tells the story of ?????????. >>>>> >>>>> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Le 2/15/2010 6:42 AM, Gary Tubb a ?crit : >>>>> >>>>>> I am tempted to add, in the section on mispronunciations, an entry on >>>>>> "vaaraaNasii" (as the name of the city), with a note to the effect that, for >>>>>> the same reasons as given for "mahaabhaarata" and "raamaayaNa," the third >>>>>> syllable in this name is the least appropriate place to apply a stress >>>>>> accent. But I have been struck over the years by the frequency with which >>>>>> many people I respect as experts on Banaras habitually lengthen and stress >>>>>> the vowel in the third syllable---so much so that I wonder whether they >>>>>> might be following some local tradition unknown to me, despite the official >>>>>> spelling of the name. Are they? Is there any good reason to make the third >>>>>> "a" vowel in "Varanasi" long? >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> Gary Tubb, Professor and Chair >>>>>> Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations >>>>>> The University of Chicago >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! >>>> http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ >>>> >>>> >>> From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA Mon Feb 15 17:21:41 2010 From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 12:21:41 -0500 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088577.23782.16530373370644205776.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 626 Lines: 31 My spell check programme habitually changes Salman Rushdie to 'salmon residue'. So it isn't just the pronunciation that goes haywire... Stella -- Stella Sandahl ssandahl at sympatico.ca On 15-Feb-10, at 11:45 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > God yes. And the author, Salman Rooshdie? > > (Has anyone heard him pronounce his own name? Not that that would be > convincing evidence to an indologist :-) > > Dominik > > On 15 February 2010 16:24, Frances Pritchett wrote: > >> And moving on from VaraNAAsi, let's not forget that other great >> cultural >> center, the POON-jab. >> >> Fran >> >> > From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Mon Feb 15 11:29:46 2010 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 12:29:46 +0100 Subject: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ In-Reply-To: <4B791757.4080308@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <161227088524.23782.18218317759647386060.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2294 Lines: 67 As a post-scriptum to my first remark, I want to addd that I have just had a look at Kittel's Kannada-English dictionary it contains on page 1392 an entry "v?ra??si" and the authority given is "Bp. 54, 65; 58, 34; My." The list abbreviations gives Bp. = "Basava pur??a. Bibliotheca Carn?taka, Mangalore, 1850" If as early as the 6th century, which is a date often given for the Tamil /Ma?im?kalai /, we find the spelling v?ra??ci, and if that spelling has remained the norm in Tamil [See: ] there must be a reason. It would be interesting to have additional data for other indian languages -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS, Paris) Le 2/15/2010 10:43 AM, Jean-Luc Chevillard a ?crit : > I would be interested in having comments > on the Tamil form: ??????? [v?ra??ci]. > > See the Tamil Lexicon (p. 3610) > > ??????? v?ra??ci, n. < V?ra?as?. Benares, situate between the rivers > Vara?? and As?; ????. ??????????? ???????????? (???. 13, 3). > > See also another entry (p.3609), which gives a different spelling. > > ?????? v?ra?aci, n. < v?ra?as?. See ???????. (????. ??.) > > The authority quoted by the Tamil Lexicon for the spelling v?ra??ci is > the Ma?im?kalai > and comes from the chapter that tells the story of ?????????. > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris) > > > Le 2/15/2010 6:42 AM, Gary Tubb a ?crit : >> I am tempted to add, in the section on mispronunciations, an entry on >> "vaaraaNasii" (as the name of the city), with a note to the effect >> that, for the same reasons as given for "mahaabhaarata" and >> "raamaayaNa," the third syllable in this name is the least >> appropriate place to apply a stress accent. But I have been struck >> over the years by the frequency with which many people I respect as >> experts on Banaras habitually lengthen and stress the vowel in the >> third syllable---so much so that I wonder whether they might be >> following some local tradition unknown to me, despite the official >> spelling of the name. Are they? Is there any good reason to make >> the third "a" vowel in "Varanasi" long? >> >> --- >> Gary Tubb, Professor and Chair >> Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations >> The University of Chicago >> > From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Feb 15 18:43:15 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 12:43:15 -0600 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088591.23782.12034162074139777264.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 434 Lines: 17 I love it! My spell-check used to suggest replacing tantra, tantric, etc., with "tantrum", which somehow seemed right... >My spell check programme habitually changes Salman Rushdie to 'salmon >residue'. So it isn't just the pronunciation that goes haywire... Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Feb 15 12:04:24 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 13:04:24 +0100 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088533.23782.10382691560167347395.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2539 Lines: 90 It's down to you, Valerie (and everyone). It's no use posting things here in the hope that someone else will add it to the FAQ. Dominik On 15 February 2010 12:49, Valerie J Roebuck wrote: > On pronunciation, could someone please include Parvati (pArvatI)and Nagini > (nAginI)--though it's probably too late for the remaining Harry Potter > films! And Ravana (rAvaNa), whose name is regularly mangled in retellings of > the Ramayana. > > Thank you. > > Valerie > > > At 11:22 am +0200 15/2/10, Klaus Karttunen wrote: > >> Hi, >> This seems nice idea. Among common confusions, I think, Budha/Buddha and >> s?astra/s?a?stra should be added. >> >> Best, >> >> Klaus Karttunen >> Professor of South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies >> Institute for Asian and African Studies >> PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) >> 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND >> Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674 >> Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094 >> Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi >> >> >> >> On Feb 14, 2010, at 11:34 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >> >> "Common misconceptions and misnomers" >>> >>> After a chat with my colleague Thomas Kintaert yesterday, I've added a >>> section to the FAQ with the above title. The current subsections are: >>> >>> >>> - 1 Wrong translations< >>> http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#Wrong_translations >>> > >>> - 1.1 a?rtava< >>> http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#.C4.81rtava >>> > >>> >>> - 2 False friends< >>> http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#False_friends >>> > >>> - 3 Common errors< >>> http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#Common_errors >>> > >>> - 3.1 How to pronounce Maha?bha?rata and >>> >>> Ra?ma?yana< >>> http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#How_to_pronounce_Mah.C4.81bh.C4.81rata_and_R.C4.81m.C4.81yana >>> > >>> >>> - 4 Common confusions< >>> http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#Common_confusions >>> > >>> - 4.1 Ka?li? and >>> >>> >>> Kali< >>> http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#K.C4.81l.C4.AB_and_Kali >>> > >>> - 4.2 Karma and >>> >>> Ka?ma< >>> http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#Karma_and_K.C4.81ma >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> But you can put what text or headings you like there. >>> >>> I thought this might encourage us to share our pet annoyances :-) >>> >>> Dominik >>> >>> From greg.bailey at LATROBE.EDU.AU Mon Feb 15 04:56:48 2010 From: greg.bailey at LATROBE.EDU.AU (Greg Bailey) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 15:56:48 +1100 Subject: King's College Palaeography In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088500.23782.5506384532383095903.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2452 Lines: 69 Dear Dominik, This is appalling and it is not just an attack on the individual but on the humanities in general, if not of social-democratic values as well. I read an article in the Melbourne Age today quoting something from the Guardian to the effect that thousands of jobs are to be lost in British universities. Is that true? If so it will percolate elsewhere in the Anglo-Saxon world, if not outside of it. Cheers, Greg Bailey On 15/02/10 3:45 PM, "Dominik Wujastyk" wrote: > Dear colleague, > > News is circulating that the Chair of Palaeography at King's College London, > David Ganz, is about to lose his job since KCL is in the process of > eradicating 22 jobs in a manner that appears crude and inefficient. > > Teaching staff at KCL have raised the idea of college-wide salary reductions > as a way of saving actual jobs and avoiding cuts like this, but at a meeting > last week the college management dismissed such a collegial approach on the > grounds that it was "not progressive". > > Here is part of the text from the Facebook page (see link below for full > information): > > King?s College London is undertaking what they call ?strategic >> disinvestment? and have informed our colleague, David Ganz, on Tuesday that >> funding for the Chair in Palaeography will cease from 31 August this year, >> when David will be out of a job. This is part of a wider context whereby all >> academic staff in the School of Arts and Humanities at King?s have to >> re-apply for their own jobs before the 1st March. They think this the ?most >> humane way? of losing 22 academic posts. >> > > >> KCL's Chair is the only established chair in Palaeography in the UK (held >> by our late members Julian Brown and Tilly de la Mare). I am, naturally, >> writing on behalf of the Committee to express dismay at the loss of the >> Chair but the more people who write in protest the better. >> > > >> The person to write to is: Professor Rick Trainor, The Principal, King?s >> College, The Strand, London WC2R 2LS and copy to Professor Jan Palmowski, >> Head of the School of Arts and Humanities." >> > > Fuller details are available at: > > - http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=303202385890&ref=share > > And the link below leads to an easy online system for signing a petition > about this matter: > > - http://www.petitiononline.com/spkcl10/ > > > -- > Dominik Wujastyk > University of Vienna From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Mon Feb 15 21:45:33 2010 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (george thompson) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 16:45:33 -0500 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088604.23782.6619829757428103072.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3103 Lines: 63 Dear List, I have avoided this discussion of mispronunciations until now, because I find that such discussions of student bloopers and the ignorant masses who can't pronounce Sanskrit words properly are generally unkind and gratuitous, and in deed, as Matthew Kapstein rightly suggests, "a bit too precious." But it is good to see that the discussion has moved in a more productive direction with the recents posts on southern pronunciations, etc. I have a different point to make, related to Dipak Bhattacharya's comments about misspellings and our having to surrender to book agents about using "Panini" instead of "P??ini." I don't think that we should surrender to our book agents. When working with my editors at Farrar Straus & Giroux about my recent Gita translation, I insisted on using standard scholarly diacritics throughout. I had to fight very hard to persuade them that the diacritics would be helpful rather than intimidating, and I did succeed in persuading them that this was so. Of course, I had to write a note about the pronunciation of Sanskrit for that book, but it persuaded this commercial, non-scholarly, publisher to use standard diacritics in my book. A small victory for diacritics, I suppose.. Obviously, non-Sanskritists like Richard Hayes's well-meaning but clueless Fransiscan brother need our help. I have offered him and others like him [e.g., yoga teachers in the US] some help in my Gita translation. At a very minimum we need to help these people to distinguish between long and short vowels in Sanskrit: 'Mahaabhaarata' vs the utterly confusing 'Mahabharata,' which makes no distinction between long and short vowels at all, even though this is not a very difficult distinction to make, even for quite illiterate American students. After that point, we can just refer to the character Apu in the "Simpsons" TV series, who uses retroflexes to pronounce numerous American words. If we can make these simple distinctions, then the pronunciation of Sanskrit will not be so difficult for the unwashed masses of those who don't know Sanskrit. Really, it doesn't take a lot of effort to teach non-Sanskritists how to pronounce Sanskrit reasonably well. I've been doing it for years. It has put food on the plates of my children, and they are now self-sustaining adults, for the most part. I would also like to complain about a decision that was made by the editors of the Clay Sanskrit Library. This is a great and valuable collection of translations, but I think that they made a bad decision when they chose to ignore diacritic marks in their translatons. I agree with their decision to resolve & simpify sandhi issues, so that word-boundaries would be easily recognizable for the beginning student, but to completely abandon accurate diacritical marks in their translations, I think, has been a big mistake. What this leads to in the intended audience is a general uncertainty about how to pronounce anything in Sanskrit. Not a good move from our Sanskrit elite. At least in my view. George Thompson From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Mon Feb 15 15:47:02 2010 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 16:47:02 +0100 Subject: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088560.23782.5923499394090221699.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6198 Lines: 178 Dear Herman, Dear Professor Bhattacharya, I wonder whether it is a precise characterization (from a descriptive linguistics point of view) to use the words "mispronounced" and "misspelled". In my edition of Kittel, supposed to be an AES reprint of the 1894 edition, both spellings are mentionned on the page 1392 : "???????" [v?ra??si] is explained as being the same as "???????" [v?r??asi] but some textual reference is given. "???????" [v?r??asi] appears slightly lower on the page and has a longer entry, also containing textual references. The strategy seen in Kittel seems to be the contrary of the strategy seen in the Madras Tamil Lexicon, where ??????? [v?ra??ci] is the main entry. (and there is a secondary entry ?????? [v?ranaci] Additionally, unless I am mistaken (which can very well happen, because I know almost nothing about Kannada and rely on electronic transcoding tools), A google search for those two forms shows that: "???????" [v?ra??si] occurs approximately 677 000 times on the internet "???????" [v?r??asi] occurs approximately 132 000 times on the internet The "incorrect" form seems to be 5 times more frequent than the "correct" form. I am convinced that this means something, at least concerning the speakers of some Modern Indian languages because 677 000 "incorrect" forms cannot simply be ignored (or wiped away from the realm of "linguistic facts"). They have a massive presence in the linguistic abilities of their users (I am alluding here to what I understand to be the topic of Morris Halle's 1985 article "Speculations about the Representation of Words in Memory") Malayalam seems to have quite a different "habitus": We find, with Google, as of today (15th february 2010): 3 690 occurrences of ??????? [v?ra??si] 646 000 occurrences of ??????? [v?r??asi] This is quite different from the figures for Kannada!! What about other Indian modern languages? -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS, Universit? Paris-Diderot, UMR7597: "Laboratoire d'Histoire des Th?ories Linguistiques") Le 2/15/2010 3:31 PM, Herman Tull a ?crit : > But, at least we can say it is a good thing that these words > (mispronounced and misspelled as they are) have come into the general > lexicon. > > By the way, I must admit to having more than once ordered a Paanini > when I should have been asking for a Paniini; confusing a grammarian > with a grilled turkey sandwich. I guess this goes both ways! (In > fact, as a a result of my misadventures in pronunciation, I am now > utterly terrified by having to order one of these sandwiches.) But, > then, I also once asked for "bed bugs" rather than "curds" in my > terribly broken Telegu. > > Herman Tull > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Dipak Bhattacharya" > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:56 AM > To: > Subject: Re: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ > >> 15 02 10 >> Kittel?s transliteration gives v?ran?si but the Kanna? word is >> written ??????? that is v?r??asi. Could the given transliteration be a >> printing error? >> To the wrong pronunciations add Himalaya for Him?laya and Panini for >> P??ini. But It is no use counting them, they are a legion. >> Best for all >> DB >> >> --- On Mon, 15/2/10, Jean-Luc Chevillard >> wrote: >> >> >> From: Jean-Luc Chevillard >> Subject: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Date: Monday, 15 February, 2010, 4:59 PM >> >> >> As a post-scriptum to my first remark, >> I want to addd that I have just had a look at Kittel's >> Kannada-English dictionary >> >> it contains on page 1392 >> an entry "v?ra??si" >> and the authority given is "Bp. 54, 65; 58, 34; My." >> >> The list abbreviations gives >> >> Bp. = "Basava pur??a. Bibliotheca Carn?taka, Mangalore, 1850" >> >> If as early as the 6th century, which is a date often given for the >> Tamil /Ma?im?kalai /, we find the spelling v?ra??ci, >> and if that spelling has remained the norm in Tamil >> [See: >> ] >> >> there must be a reason. >> >> It would be interesting to have additional data for other indian >> languages >> >> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS, Paris) >> >> >> >> Le 2/15/2010 10:43 AM, Jean-Luc Chevillard a ?crit : >>> I would be interested in having comments >>> on the Tamil form: ??????? [v?ra??ci]. >>> >>> See the Tamil Lexicon (p. 3610) >>> >>> ??????? v?ra??ci, n. < V?ra?as?. Benares, situate between the rivers >>> Vara?? and As?; ????. ??????????? ???????????? (???. 13, 3). >>> >>> See also another entry (p.3609), which gives a different spelling. >>> >>> ?????? v?ra?aci, n. < v?ra?as?. See ???????. (????. ??.) >>> >>> The authority quoted by the Tamil Lexicon for the spelling v?ra??ci >>> is the Ma?im?kalai >>> and comes from the chapter that tells the story of ?????????. >>> >>> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris) >>> >>> >>> Le 2/15/2010 6:42 AM, Gary Tubb a ?crit : >>>> I am tempted to add, in the section on mispronunciations, an entry >>>> on "vaaraaNasii" (as the name of the city), with a note to the >>>> effect that, for the same reasons as given for "mahaabhaarata" and >>>> "raamaayaNa," the third syllable in this name is the least >>>> appropriate place to apply a stress accent. But I have been struck >>>> over the years by the frequency with which many people I respect as >>>> experts on Banaras habitually lengthen and stress the vowel in the >>>> third syllable---so much so that I wonder whether they might be >>>> following some local tradition unknown to me, despite the official >>>> spelling of the name. Are they? Is there any good reason to make >>>> the third "a" vowel in "Varanasi" long? >>>> >>>> --- >>>> Gary Tubb, Professor and Chair >>>> Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations >>>> The University of Chicago >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it >> NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ >> > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Feb 15 16:45:54 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 17:45:54 +0100 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: <4B79672C.1040509@columbia.edu> Message-ID: <161227088563.23782.3471010711026314024.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 356 Lines: 18 God yes. And the author, Salman Rooshdie? (Has anyone heard him pronounce his own name? Not that that would be convincing evidence to an indologist :-) Dominik On 15 February 2010 16:24, Frances Pritchett wrote: > And moving on from VaraNAAsi, let's not forget that other great cultural > center, the POON-jab. > > Fran > > From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Mon Feb 15 12:56:53 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 18:26:53 +0530 Subject: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ In-Reply-To: <4B79302A.9070308@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <161227088538.23782.65903808846255738.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2983 Lines: 71 15 02 10 Kittel?s transliteration gives v?ran?si but the Kanna? word is written ??????? that is v?r??asi. Could the given transliteration be a printing error? To the wrong pronunciations add Himalaya for Him?laya and Panini for P??ini. But It is no use counting them, they are a legion. Best for all DB --- On Mon, 15/2/10, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: From: Jean-Luc Chevillard Subject: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 15 February, 2010, 4:59 PM As a post-scriptum to my first remark, I want to addd that I have just had a look at Kittel's Kannada-English dictionary it contains on page 1392 an entry "v?ra??si" and the authority given is "Bp. 54, 65; 58, 34; My." The list abbreviations gives Bp. = "Basava pur??a. Bibliotheca Carn?taka, Mangalore, 1850" If as early as the 6th century, which is a date often given for the Tamil /Ma?im?kalai /, we find the spelling v?ra??ci, and if that spelling has remained the norm in Tamil [See: ] there must be a reason. It would be interesting to have additional data for other indian languages -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS, Paris) Le 2/15/2010 10:43 AM, Jean-Luc Chevillard a ?crit : > I would be interested in having comments > on the Tamil form: ??????? [v?ra??ci]. > > See the Tamil Lexicon (p. 3610) > > ??????? v?ra??ci, n. < V?ra?as?. Benares, situate between the rivers Vara?? and As?; ????. ??????????? ???????????? (???. 13, 3). > > See also another entry (p.3609), which gives a different spelling. > > ?????? v?ra?aci, n. < v?ra?as?. See ???????. (????. ??.) > > The authority quoted by the Tamil Lexicon for the spelling v?ra??ci is the Ma?im?kalai > and comes from the chapter that tells the story of ?????????. > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris) > > > Le 2/15/2010 6:42 AM, Gary Tubb a ?crit : >> I am tempted to add, in the section on mispronunciations, an entry on "vaaraaNasii" (as the name of the city), with a note to the effect that, for the same reasons as given for "mahaabhaarata" and "raamaayaNa," the third syllable in this name is the least appropriate place to apply a stress accent.? But I have been struck over the years by the frequency with which many people I respect as experts on Banaras habitually lengthen and stress the vowel in the third syllable---so much so that I wonder whether they might be following some local tradition unknown to me, despite the official spelling of the name.? Are they?? Is there any good reason to make the third "a" vowel in "Varanasi" long? >> >> --- >> Gary Tubb, Professor and Chair >> Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations >> The University of Chicago >> > Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Mon Feb 15 17:34:23 2010 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 18:34:23 +0100 Subject: "Remarqueurs" (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: <20100215105201.CJS79264@m4500-02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227088583.23782.16524684585367194998.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1758 Lines: 59 Cher Matthew, de l'EPHE (?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes), il y a bien s?r quelque chose de surr?aliste dans cette discussion, qui semble avoir comme pr?suppos? que le "Eternal Sanskrit" est plus r?el que le "Real sanskrit" ("n?o-sanskrit") qui a ?t? depuis de nombreux si?cles la "father tongue" de gens qui avaient des "mother tongues" tr?s diverses (Tamoul, Malayalam, Kannada, Bhojpuri, etc.). Mais d'un autre c?t?, avoir sur un site Web universitaire un enregistrement "spontan?" [et P?RENNE] de r?actions aux prononciations que l'on trouve aux XX? et XXI? si?cles est tr?s pr?cieux pour un linguiste d'aujourd'hui et le sera encore plus pour un linguiste du futur ...) Cela peut se comparer (en anticipant), avec la valeur que nous, historiens de la linguistique (en France), attribuons aujourd'hui aux remarques faites par les "Remarqueurs" sur la langue fran?aise du XVIe si?cle ? nos jours. Il ne faut pas inhiber les r?actions spontan?es! Amicalement -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS, Universit? Paris-Diderot Paris7, UMR7597 [HTL]) Le 2/15/2010 5:52 PM, mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU a ?crit : > Isn't every one being a bit too precious about all this? > What do French speakers do with English names? > What does everyone do with Chinese? > How many of us get our Arabic quite right? > Not to mention Thai, Tibetan or Khmer... > > The idea that one is going to launch a campaign to > rectify the massacre of Indian names and terms in > English is plain silly when you think about it. > > Matthew > > Matthew T. Kapstein > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies > The University of Chicago Divinity School > > Directeur d'?tudes > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > > From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET Mon Feb 15 18:42:46 2010 From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 18:42:46 +0000 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088594.23782.10345407780021528277.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2828 Lines: 104 I don't seem to be able to access the site to do this. Valerie At 1:04 pm +0100 15/2/10, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >It's down to you, Valerie (and everyone). It's no use posting things here >in the hope that someone else will add it to the FAQ. > >Dominik > >On 15 February 2010 12:49, Valerie J Roebuck >wrote: > >> On pronunciation, could someone please include Parvati (pArvatI)and Nagini >> (nAginI)--though it's probably too late for the remaining Harry Potter >> films! And Ravana (rAvaNa), whose name is regularly mangled in retellings of >> the Ramayana. >> >> Thank you. >> >> Valerie >> >> >> At 11:22 am +0200 15/2/10, Klaus Karttunen wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> This seems nice idea. Among common confusions, I think, Budha/Buddha and >>> s?astra/s?a?stra should be added. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Klaus Karttunen >>> Professor of South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies >>> Institute for Asian and African Studies >>> PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) >>> 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND >>> Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674 >>> Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094 >>> Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi >>> >>> >>> >>> On Feb 14, 2010, at 11:34 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >>> >>> "Common misconceptions and misnomers" >>>> >>>> After a chat with my colleague Thomas Kintaert yesterday, I've added a >>>> section to the FAQ with the above title. The current subsections are: >>>> >>>> >>>> - 1 Wrong translations< >>>> >>>>http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#Wrong_translations >>>> > >>>> - 1.1 a?rtava< >>>> >>>>http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#.C4.81rtava >>>> > >>>> >>>> - 2 False friends< >>>> >>>>http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#False_friends >>>> > >>>> - 3 Common errors< >>>> >>>>http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#Common_errors >>>> > >>>> - 3.1 How to pronounce Maha?bha?rata and >>>> >>>> Ra?ma?yana< >>>> >>>>http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#How_to_pronounce_Mah.C4.81bh.C4.81rata_and_R.C4.81m.C4.81yana >>>> > >>>> >>>> - 4 Common confusions< >>>> >>>>http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#Common_confusions >>>> > >>>> - 4.1 Ka?li? and >>>> >>>> >>>> Kali< >>>> >>>>http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#K.C4.81l.C4.AB_and_Kali >>>> > >>>> - 4.2 Karma and >>>> >>>> Ka?ma< >>>> >>>>http://faq.indology.info/index.php/Common_misconceptions_and_misnomers#Karma_and_K.C4.81ma >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> But you can put what text or headings you like there. >>>> >>>> I thought this might encourage us to share our pet annoyances :-) >>>> >>>> Dominik >>>> >>>> From zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE Mon Feb 15 18:50:48 2010 From: zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE (Robert Zydenbos) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 19:50:48 +0100 Subject: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088596.23782.9625833278823028437.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2208 Lines: 48 One should also keep in mind, in all these discussions about ??????? (the only pronunciation I have ever heard in Karnataka; note the short i at the end), ?????, ???????, etc. etc., that old and famous cities tend to acquire new or altered names in speech areas far away from where those cities are. Europe is full of such examples. In Dutch, Wien becomes 'Wenen', Paris becomes 'Parijs', Berlin is 'Berlijn'; K?ln becomes 'Keulen' in Dutch and 'Cologne' in French and English. Dutch cities like Arnhem and Nijmegen become 'Arnheim' and 'Nimwegen' in German, and 's- Hertogenbosch and 's-Gravenhage become 'Bois-le-Duc' and 'The Hague' in English. M?nchen becomes 'Munich' in English and 'Monaco' in Italian (and the latest, Sanskrit name, which I would like to publicize here, is Mun??anagara). The list goes on and on. The reasons for all these metamorphoses are manifold, and differ from language to language: some reasons are internal (general phonetic patterns of the language), some historical (e.g., the British using French names for whatever is just on the other side of the water). Compared to what Europeans have been doing on their continent (or the British in India: ?r?ra?gapa??a?a > Seringapatam, ??umpur > Egmore), I find the Indian variations on V?r??as? quite modest. As for the variations in Kannada: I suspect that 'v?ra??si' is a distorted form that may at first have been borrowed from Tamil, since it is ?iva's city, and much, though not all, ?aiva lore came to Karnataka from Tamilnadu (historical reason; note that the references in the Kittel dictionary are from the Basavapur??a, a ?aiva work; but the same text also contains 'v?r??asi', and Kittel has also found 'vara?asi'); and at some later time, so I imagine, it was realized that the proper pronunciation is 'v?r??as?' (but Kannadigas always shorten the final ? in loan words: internal reason), which is why I have never heard anything else. RZ Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Department f?r Asienstudien - Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie Universit?t M?nchen (i.e., Munich, Monaco, Mun??anagara) Deutschland Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827 From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Mon Feb 15 19:00:48 2010 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 20:00:48 +0100 Subject: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ In-Reply-To: <4B79843C.2050009@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227088599.23782.5319344689546059611.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7959 Lines: 234 Dear Gary, the data added by Velcheru Narayana Rao is quite interesting. Apparently, we have inside the MEMORY PATTERNS of speakers of Kannada, Telugu and Tamil a dominant metrical pattern for the name Benares which is: "LONG SHORT LONG" whereas the dominant metrical pattern for Malayalam is: "LONG LONG SHORT" It would be interesting to find out whether the vectors (the people who inoculated) the Benares shaiva supremacy notion into Tamil Nadu were people whose (real) mother tongue did not have the distinction between long and short. What about other living Indian languages? Cheers -- Jean-Luc (Paris) Le 2/15/2010 6:28 PM, Gary Tubb a ?crit : > This is exactly the sort of thing I was wondering about when I brought > up the matter of the pronunciation of Varanasi. The data from Kannada > is very interesting, as is the contrast with Malayalam.. > > Velcheru Narayana Rao informs me that "in Telugu speech it is > vaaranaasi. (The third syllable long, and also the last vowel short.)" > > So it does appear that, unlike the words "Mahabharata" and "Ramayana," > for "Varanasi" there are strong, though regional, traditions > supporting a second pronunciation. > > --Gary. > > Gary Tubb, Professor and Chair > Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations > The University of Chicago > > > > > Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: >> Dear Herman, >> Dear Professor Bhattacharya, >> >> I wonder whether it is a precise characterization >> (from a descriptive linguistics point of view) >> to use the words "mispronounced" and "misspelled". >> >> In my edition of Kittel, >> supposed to be an AES reprint of the 1894 edition, >> both spellings are mentionned on the page 1392 : >> >> "???????" [v?ra??si] is explained as being the same as "???????" >> [v?r??asi] >> but some textual reference is given. >> >> "???????" [v?r??asi] appears slightly lower on the page >> and has a longer entry, also containing textual references. >> >> The strategy seen in Kittel seems to be the contrary >> of the strategy seen in the Madras Tamil Lexicon, >> where ??????? [v?ra??ci] is the main entry. >> (and there is a secondary entry ?????? [v?ranaci] >> >> Additionally, >> unless I am mistaken >> (which can very well happen, because I know almost nothing about >> Kannada and rely on electronic transcoding tools), >> A google search for those two forms shows that: >> >> "???????" [v?ra??si] occurs approximately 677 000 times on the internet >> >> "???????" [v?r??asi] occurs approximately 132 000 times on the internet >> >> The "incorrect" form seems to be 5 times more frequent than the >> "correct" form. >> >> I am convinced that this means something, >> at least concerning the speakers of some Modern Indian languages >> because 677 000 "incorrect" forms cannot simply be ignored >> (or wiped away from the realm of "linguistic facts"). >> >> They have a massive presence in the linguistic abilities of their users >> (I am alluding here to what I understand to be the topic of Morris >> Halle's 1985 article >> "Speculations about the Representation of Words in Memory") >> >> Malayalam seems to have quite a different "habitus": >> >> We find, with Google, as of today (15th february 2010): >> >> 3 690 occurrences of ??????? [v?ra??si] >> >> 646 000 occurrences of ??????? [v?r??asi] >> >> This is quite different from the figures for Kannada!! >> >> What about other Indian modern languages? >> >> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard >> >> (CNRS, Universit? Paris-Diderot, >> UMR7597: "Laboratoire d'Histoire des Th?ories Linguistiques") >> >> >> Le 2/15/2010 3:31 PM, Herman Tull a ?crit : >>> But, at least we can say it is a good thing that these words >>> (mispronounced and misspelled as they are) have come into the >>> general lexicon. >>> >>> By the way, I must admit to having more than once ordered a Paanini >>> when I should have been asking for a Paniini; confusing a grammarian >>> with a grilled turkey sandwich. I guess this goes both ways! (In >>> fact, as a a result of my misadventures in pronunciation, I am now >>> utterly terrified by having to order one of these sandwiches.) But, >>> then, I also once asked for "bed bugs" rather than "curds" in my >>> terribly broken Telegu. >>> >>> Herman Tull >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Dipak Bhattacharya" >>> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:56 AM >>> To: >>> Subject: Re: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ >>> >>>> 15 02 10 >>>> Kittel?s transliteration gives v?ran?si but the Kanna? word is >>>> written ??????? that is v?r??asi. Could the given transliteration be >>>> a printing error? >>>> To the wrong pronunciations add Himalaya for Him?laya and Panini >>>> for P??ini. But It is no use counting them, they are a legion. >>>> Best for all >>>> DB >>>> >>>> --- On Mon, 15/2/10, Jean-Luc Chevillard >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Jean-Luc Chevillard >>>> Subject: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ >>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>>> Date: Monday, 15 February, 2010, 4:59 PM >>>> >>>> >>>> As a post-scriptum to my first remark, >>>> I want to addd that I have just had a look at Kittel's >>>> Kannada-English dictionary >>>> >>>> it contains on page 1392 >>>> an entry "v?ra??si" >>>> and the authority given is "Bp. 54, 65; 58, 34; My." >>>> >>>> The list abbreviations gives >>>> >>>> Bp. = "Basava pur??a. Bibliotheca Carn?taka, Mangalore, 1850" >>>> >>>> If as early as the 6th century, which is a date often given for the >>>> Tamil /Ma?im?kalai /, we find the spelling v?ra??ci, >>>> and if that spelling has remained the norm in Tamil >>>> [See: >>>> ] >>>> >>>> there must be a reason. >>>> >>>> It would be interesting to have additional data for other indian >>>> languages >>>> >>>> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS, Paris) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Le 2/15/2010 10:43 AM, Jean-Luc Chevillard a ?crit : >>>>> I would be interested in having comments >>>>> on the Tamil form: ??????? [v?ra??ci]. >>>>> >>>>> See the Tamil Lexicon (p. 3610) >>>>> >>>>> ??????? v?ra??ci, n. < V?ra?as?. Benares, situate between the >>>>> rivers Vara?? and As?; ????. ??????????? ???????????? (???. 13, 3). >>>>> >>>>> See also another entry (p.3609), which gives a different spelling. >>>>> >>>>> ?????? v?ra?aci, n. < v?ra?as?. See ???????. (????. ??.) >>>>> >>>>> The authority quoted by the Tamil Lexicon for the spelling >>>>> v?ra??ci is the Ma?im?kalai >>>>> and comes from the chapter that tells the story of ?????????. >>>>> >>>>> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Le 2/15/2010 6:42 AM, Gary Tubb a ?crit : >>>>>> I am tempted to add, in the section on mispronunciations, an >>>>>> entry on "vaaraaNasii" (as the name of the city), with a note to >>>>>> the effect that, for the same reasons as given for >>>>>> "mahaabhaarata" and "raamaayaNa," the third syllable in this name >>>>>> is the least appropriate place to apply a stress accent. But I >>>>>> have been struck over the years by the frequency with which many >>>>>> people I respect as experts on Banaras habitually lengthen and >>>>>> stress the vowel in the third syllable---so much so that I wonder >>>>>> whether they might be following some local tradition unknown to >>>>>> me, despite the official spelling of the name. Are they? Is >>>>>> there any good reason to make the third "a" vowel in "Varanasi" >>>>>> long? >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> Gary Tubb, Professor and Chair >>>>>> Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations >>>>>> The University of Chicago >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it >>>> NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ >>>> >>> > From palaniappa at AOL.COM Tue Feb 16 02:34:54 2010 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 20:34:54 -0600 Subject: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ In-Reply-To: <4B79302A.9070308@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <161227088609.23782.8381758973518494861.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2596 Lines: 59 The earliest version of the name we come across in Tamil is v?ra?av?ci in Kalittokai 24.13 of the Classical Tamil literature. There are places called v?ra?av?ci in today's Tamil Nadu too. Regards, Palaniappan On Feb 15, 2010, at 5:29 AM, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: > As a post-scriptum to my first remark, > I want to addd that I have just had a look at Kittel's Kannada-English dictionary > > it contains on page 1392 > an entry "v?ra??si" > and the authority given is "Bp. 54, 65; 58, 34; My." > > The list abbreviations gives > > Bp. = "Basava pur??a. Bibliotheca Carn?taka, Mangalore, 1850" > > If as early as the 6th century, which is a date often given for the Tamil /Ma?im?kalai /, we find the spelling v?ra??ci, > and if that spelling has remained the norm in Tamil > [See: ] > there must be a reason. > > It would be interesting to have additional data for other indian languages > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS, Paris) > > > > Le 2/15/2010 10:43 AM, Jean-Luc Chevillard a ?crit : >> I would be interested in having comments >> on the Tamil form: ??????? [v?ra??ci]. >> >> See the Tamil Lexicon (p. 3610) >> >> ??????? v?ra??ci, n. < V?ra?as?. Benares, situate between the rivers Vara?? and As?; ????. ??????????? ???????????? (???. 13, 3). >> >> See also another entry (p.3609), which gives a different spelling. >> >> ?????? v?ra?aci, n. < v?ra?as?. See ???????. (????. ??.) >> >> The authority quoted by the Tamil Lexicon for the spelling v?ra??ci is the Ma?im?kalai >> and comes from the chapter that tells the story of ?????????. >> >> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris) >> >> >> Le 2/15/2010 6:42 AM, Gary Tubb a ?crit : >>> I am tempted to add, in the section on mispronunciations, an entry on "vaaraaNasii" (as the name of the city), with a note to the effect that, for the same reasons as given for "mahaabhaarata" and "raamaayaNa," the third syllable in this name is the least appropriate place to apply a stress accent. But I have been struck over the years by the frequency with which many people I respect as experts on Banaras habitually lengthen and stress the vowel in the third syllable---so much so that I wonder whether they might be following some local tradition unknown to me, despite the official spelling of the name. Are they? Is there any good reason to make the third "a" vowel in "Varanasi" long? >>> >>> --- >>> Gary Tubb, Professor and Chair >>> Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations >>> The University of Chicago >>> >> From palaniappa at AOL.COM Tue Feb 16 02:45:45 2010 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 20:45:45 -0600 Subject: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ In-Reply-To: <4B79302A.9070308@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <161227088612.23782.4538527371205031431.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2500 Lines: 57 Sorry, the reference is really Kalittokai 60.13. The reference 24.13 is with respect to Ku?i?cikkali. Palaniappan On Feb 15, 2010, at 5:29 AM, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: > As a post-scriptum to my first remark, > I want to addd that I have just had a look at Kittel's Kannada-English dictionary > > it contains on page 1392 > an entry "v?ra??si" > and the authority given is "Bp. 54, 65; 58, 34; My." > > The list abbreviations gives > > Bp. = "Basava pur??a. Bibliotheca Carn?taka, Mangalore, 1850" > > If as early as the 6th century, which is a date often given for the Tamil /Ma?im?kalai /, we find the spelling v?ra??ci, > and if that spelling has remained the norm in Tamil > [See: ] > there must be a reason. > > It would be interesting to have additional data for other indian languages > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS, Paris) > > > > Le 2/15/2010 10:43 AM, Jean-Luc Chevillard a ?crit : >> I would be interested in having comments >> on the Tamil form: ??????? [v?ra??ci]. >> >> See the Tamil Lexicon (p. 3610) >> >> ??????? v?ra??ci, n. < V?ra?as?. Benares, situate between the rivers Vara?? and As?; ????. ??????????? ???????????? (???. 13, 3). >> >> See also another entry (p.3609), which gives a different spelling. >> >> ?????? v?ra?aci, n. < v?ra?as?. See ???????. (????. ??.) >> >> The authority quoted by the Tamil Lexicon for the spelling v?ra??ci is the Ma?im?kalai >> and comes from the chapter that tells the story of ?????????. >> >> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris) >> >> >> Le 2/15/2010 6:42 AM, Gary Tubb a ?crit : >>> I am tempted to add, in the section on mispronunciations, an entry on "vaaraaNasii" (as the name of the city), with a note to the effect that, for the same reasons as given for "mahaabhaarata" and "raamaayaNa," the third syllable in this name is the least appropriate place to apply a stress accent. But I have been struck over the years by the frequency with which many people I respect as experts on Banaras habitually lengthen and stress the vowel in the third syllable---so much so that I wonder whether they might be following some local tradition unknown to me, despite the official spelling of the name. Are they? Is there any good reason to make the third "a" vowel in "Varanasi" long? >>> >>> --- >>> Gary Tubb, Professor and Chair >>> Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations >>> The University of Chicago >>> >> From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Mon Feb 15 16:49:26 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 22:19:26 +0530 Subject: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088565.23782.532832281709031654.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4475 Lines: 98 My submission concerned the pronunciation by some?reputed scholars. I think book agents?should not be normally expected to welcome the spelling P??ini. For them, perhaps, Panini is sufficient: DB --- On Mon, 15/2/10, Herman Tull wrote: From: Herman Tull Subject: Re: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 15 February, 2010, 8:01 PM But, at least we can say it is a good thing that these words (mispronounced and misspelled as they are) have come into the general lexicon. By the way, I must admit to having more than once ordered a Paanini when I should have been asking for a Paniini; confusing a grammarian with a grilled turkey sandwich.? I guess this goes both ways!???(In fact, as a a result of my misadventures in pronunciation, I am now utterly terrified by having to order one of these sandwiches.)? But, then, I also once asked for "bed bugs" rather than "curds" in my terribly broken Telegu. Herman Tull -------------------------------------------------- From: "Dipak Bhattacharya" Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:56 AM To: Subject: Re: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ > 15 02 10 > Kittel?s transliteration gives v?ran?si but the Kanna? word is written ??????? that is v?r??asi. Could the given transliteration be a printing error? > To the wrong pronunciations add Himalaya for Him?laya and Panini for P??ini. But It is no use counting them, they are a legion. > Best for all > DB > > --- On Mon, 15/2/10, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: > > > From: Jean-Luc Chevillard > Subject: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Monday, 15 February, 2010, 4:59 PM > > > As a post-scriptum to my first remark, > I want to addd that I have just had a look at Kittel's Kannada-English dictionary > > it contains on page 1392 > an entry "v?ra??si" > and the authority given is "Bp. 54, 65; 58, 34; My." > > The list abbreviations gives > > Bp. = "Basava pur??a. Bibliotheca Carn?taka, Mangalore, 1850" > > If as early as the 6th century, which is a date often given for the Tamil /Ma?im?kalai /, we find the spelling v?ra??ci, > and if that spelling has remained the norm in Tamil > [See: ] > there must be a reason. > > It would be interesting to have additional data for other indian languages > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS, Paris) > > > > Le 2/15/2010 10:43 AM, Jean-Luc Chevillard a ?crit : >> I would be interested in having comments >> on the Tamil form: ??????? [v?ra??ci]. >> >> See the Tamil Lexicon (p. 3610) >> >> ??????? v?ra??ci, n. < V?ra?as?. Benares, situate between the rivers Vara?? and As?; ????. ??????????? ???????????? (???. 13, 3). >> >> See also another entry (p.3609), which gives a different spelling. >> >> ?????? v?ra?aci, n. < v?ra?as?. See ???????. (????. ??.) >> >> The authority quoted by the Tamil Lexicon for the spelling v?ra??ci is the Ma?im?kalai >> and comes from the chapter that tells the story of ?????????. >> >> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris) >> >> >> Le 2/15/2010 6:42 AM, Gary Tubb a ?crit : >>> I am tempted to add, in the section on mispronunciations, an entry on "vaaraaNasii" (as the name of the city), with a note to the effect that, for the same reasons as given for "mahaabhaarata" and "raamaayaNa," the third syllable in this name is the least appropriate place to apply a stress accent.? But I have been struck over the years by the frequency with which many people I respect as experts on Banaras habitually lengthen and stress the vowel in the third syllable---so much so that I wonder whether they might be following some local tradition unknown to me, despite the official spelling of the name.? Are they?? Is there any good reason to make the third "a" vowel in "Varanasi" long? >>> >>> --- >>> Gary Tubb, Professor and Chair >>> Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations >>> The University of Chicago >>> >> > > > >? ? ? Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Mon Feb 15 17:02:35 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 22:32:35 +0530 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: <20100215105201.CJS79264@m4500-02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227088571.23782.7685695925075091087.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1177 Lines: 38 True. But?Indians speak and teach wrong English? is too often heard. I am witness to that: The observation, as far as my experience goes, concerns only pronunciation. Objecting to or making fun of alien pronunciation is universal. Usually offence is not meant: DB ? --- On Mon, 15/2/10, mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU wrote: From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Subject: Re: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 15 February, 2010, 10:22 PM Isn't every one being a bit too precious about all this? What do French speakers do with English names? What does everyone do with Chinese? How many of us get our Arabic quite right? Not to mention Thai, Tibetan or Khmer... The idea that one is going to launch a campaign to rectify the massacre of Indian names and terms in English is plain silly when you think about it. Matthew Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE Mon Feb 15 21:58:16 2010 From: zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE (Robert Zydenbos) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 10 22:58:16 +0100 Subject: Southern pronunciations ? (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ In-Reply-To: <2E6CA5A6-D8F6-4EB2-8DA1-7C6DF7FCA484@csli.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <161227088607.23782.4210736414149236691.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1711 Lines: 38 Op 15.02.2010, om 20:37 heeft Paul Kiparsky het volgende geschreven: > In Europe, the names used abroad tend to be older, rather than new > and altered! Obviously Cologne and Monaco are is closer to the > original than K?ln and Munchen, etc. I think it is obvious that 'M?nchen' is closer to the original 12th- century 'Munichen' than the Italian 'Monaco' is. (I must confess that I don't know when the French turned Colonia to 'Cologne'. But even if the oldest attestation were to be newer than the native German development Colonia > C?llen > C?ln > K?ln, it is indeed arguably closer to the Latin original.) > And 's-Hertogenbosch may be a translation of Bois-le-Duc and not the > other way round (for the duke in question was presumably French- > speaking). Not likely, because 's-Hertogenbosch is an old town, much older than the one-time fashion among nobles to speak French. Moreover, there are too many Dutch place names that have a similar structure ('s- Gravenhage, 's-Gravensande,...) and have no French version at all. > I'd be surprised if there aren't such cases in India too. Though we should not rule out that possibility, also in India one has to watch out. There are later Sanskritizations of originally non- Sanskritic place names that are presented as 'the original' (e.g., Mais?ru would be derived from Sanskrit 'Mahi??surapura', or, more fancifully, U?upi from 'R?pyap??ha') -- just like the Latinization of M?nchen to the supposedly 'original' 'Monachium'. (There is even a Latin name for Toronto: Torontum. And there's Vinnipega, Vancuverium, Sanctus Johannes, Fredericopolis, Sinus Tonitralis, Mons Regius, Regiopolis [Kingston] too.) RZ From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Tue Feb 16 13:15:22 2010 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 10 08:15:22 -0500 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088619.23782.10947975819292626260.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2146 Lines: 43 I agree that it is important to have diacritics on romanized Sanskrit to ensure at least the graphic representation of Sanskrit sounds. That however does not assure its pronunciation. I remember attending the meetings of the AOS in old days where American Sanskritists pronounced the Buddhist tathat? as "tatata" with all alveolar 't's and no distinction of vowel length, and mah?bh?rata as "mabarata" with no aspiration for 'b', alveolar 't', and of course no distinction of vowel length. On one of these occasions, my guruji Prof George Cardona was so fed up, that he could not take the barrage of "tatata" and walked out of the room. Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk [wujastyk at GMAIL.COM] Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 7:15 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi On 15 February 2010 22:45, george thompson wrote: I agree about publishers, George. Like many on this list, I'm sure, I've had my share of arguments with publishers about accents. I've found it helpful to draw an analogy with French or German. It wouldn't be acceptable to print those languages without their accents, and nor is it acceptable for Sanskrit. You said, > I would also like to complain about a decision that was made by the editors > of the Clay Sanskrit Library. This is a great and valuable collection of > translations, but I think that they made a bad decision when they chose to > ignore diacritic marks in their translatons. > There's lots to discuss about the various Clay decisions, but one thing I quite like is the use of the acute accent to mark stress or ictus. While ictus isn't the same as vowel length, it's pretty close to gauravam, and people who know nothing of Sanskrit and don't have access to a teacher do rather well reading such accented words out loud. Best, Dominik From jkirk at SPRO.NET Tue Feb 16 17:09:50 2010 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 10 10:09:50 -0700 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D704D34C3320@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227088624.23782.3098244875255177408.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3308 Lines: 86 The most difficult sound for US English speakers to produce, it has seemed to me over the years, is the dental t and d. What sounds alveolar to speakers of Indian languages does not sound alveolar to "us;" so when we learn the alveolar t & d in say, Hindi and Sanskrit, to my ear we do it harder than maybe we need to since we are unaware of our usual pronunciation of "our" t & d. (Sorry I don't have diacritics on my PC.) We can do the aspirated dentals OK but only after we are taught about the aspirated consonants. Sometimes spoken English does make for aspirated 't's (as in some pronunciations of the word 'matter'), but we don't notice it of course because it's not phonemic for us. Yes, unless well-trained and unless we are alert about it, we tend to botch most of the aspirated consonants. This is a real tongue twister for most of us: tathat? -- but at least we could get the long vowells right, for a change. Joanna K -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Deshpande, Madhav Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 6:15 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi I agree that it is important to have diacritics on romanized Sanskrit to ensure at least the graphic representation of Sanskrit sounds. That however does not assure its pronunciation. I remember attending the meetings of the AOS in old days where American Sanskritists pronounced the Buddhist tathat? as "tatata" with all alveolar 't's and no distinction of vowel length, and mah?bh?rata as "mabarata" with no aspiration for 'b', alveolar 't', and of course no distinction of vowel length. On one of these occasions, my guruji Prof George Cardona was so fed up, that he could not take the barrage of "tatata" and walked out of the room. Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk [wujastyk at GMAIL.COM] Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 7:15 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi On 15 February 2010 22:45, george thompson wrote: I agree about publishers, George. Like many on this list, I'm sure, I've had my share of arguments with publishers about accents. I've found it helpful to draw an analogy with French or German. It wouldn't be acceptable to print those languages without their accents, and nor is it acceptable for Sanskrit. You said, > I would also like to complain about a decision that was made by the > editors of the Clay Sanskrit Library. This is a great and valuable > collection of translations, but I think that they made a bad decision > when they chose to ignore diacritic marks in their translatons. > There's lots to discuss about the various Clay decisions, but one thing I quite like is the use of the acute accent to mark stress or ictus. While ictus isn't the same as vowel length, it's pretty close to gauravam, and people who know nothing of Sanskrit and don't have access to a teacher do rather well reading such accented words out loud. Best, Dominik From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Tue Feb 16 19:49:55 2010 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 10 11:49:55 -0800 Subject: Southern trip of "vaaraaNasii" (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ) In-Reply-To: <4B791757.4080308@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <161227088626.23782.18154399671534618639.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3273 Lines: 94 In Tamil, there seems to be a three-way rendition of the term "vaaraaNasii" (as the name of the city) [as originally provided by Gary Tubb]: (i) ???????? "vAraNavAsi" (as attested in an earlier literature, kalittokai ?????????, and later inscriptions). This form can be construed as the combination of: "vAraN(a) + v (glide) + Asi" I also recall that ???????? "vAraNavAsi" is the form attested in ??????????? ??????? ariccantira purANam, the epic describing the story of "Harischandra." I don't have a copy of the book to quote it. Note that the vowels in the syllables of ???????? "vAraNavAsi" are long-short-short-long-short. (ii) ??????? "vAraNAsi" (as attested in certain types of literary texts such the Manimekalai ????????, Tevaram ???????, and ???????????? , Periyapuranam) . This form can be construed as the combination of: "vAraN + Asi" Note that the vowels in the syllables of ??????? "vAraNAsi" are long-short-long-short. (iii) ?????? "vAraNasii". In a recent blog, I found the following quote from the famous singer M.S. Subbulakshmi's "suprabatham" : "?????? ?????? ?? ??????????" ["vAraNasii kulapatE ... ... "], which is interesting since the vowel in the last syllable of the city's name under consideration is long. My memory of the "suprabatham" doesn't help me here. I don't have music recordings to confirm this fact either. Note that the vowels in the syllables of ?????? "vAraNasii" are long-short-short-long. In any case, I can assure that phonology, meter in poetry, and music have had their roles in rendering different versions of the same name in Tamil. Regards, V.S. Rajam (< www.letsgrammar.org>) On Feb 15, 2010, at 1:43 AM, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: > I would be interested in having comments > on the Tamil form: ??????? [v?ra??ci]. > > See the Tamil Lexicon (p. 3610) > > ??????? v?ra??ci, n. < V?ra?as?. Benares, > situate between the rivers Vara?? and As?; ????. > ??????????? > ???????????? (???. 13, 3). > > See also another entry (p.3609), which gives a different spelling. > > ?????? v?ra?aci, n. < v?ra?as?. See > ???????. (????. ??.) > > The authority quoted by the Tamil Lexicon for the spelling > v?ra??ci is the Ma?im?kalai > and comes from the chapter that tells the story of > ?????????. > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris) > > > Le 2/15/2010 6:42 AM, Gary Tubb a ?crit : >> I am tempted to add, in the section on mispronunciations, an entry >> on "vaaraaNasii" (as the name of the city), with a note to the >> effect that, for the same reasons as given for "mahaabhaarata" and >> "raamaayaNa," the third syllable in this name is the least >> appropriate place to apply a stress accent. But I have been >> struck over the years by the frequency with which many people I >> respect as experts on Banaras habitually lengthen and stress the >> vowel in the third syllable---so much so that I wonder whether >> they might be following some local tradition unknown to me, >> despite the official spelling of the name. Are they? Is there >> any good reason to make the third "a" vowel in "Varanasi" long? >> >> --- >> Gary Tubb, Professor and Chair >> Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations >> The University of Chicago >> From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Feb 16 12:05:33 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 10 13:05:33 +0100 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: <20100215105201.CJS79264@m4500-02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227088614.23782.7244026090173288685.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2390 Lines: 60 So anyone can pronounce any word any way they like? Surely you don't think that? I don't think it's being precious at all, Matthew. Of course, as Einstein proved, it's all relative (that's a joke). But then again, it's not all relative, and there is indeed right and wrong, in a particular framed, situated locale (like spoken Sanskrit). The criterion is what is received as comfortable, acceptable, and immediately intelligible by the community of other local speakers. We're not launching a campaign, but answering frequently-asked questions. (Or will be, if anyone actually writes any of this in faq.indology.info) I am reminded of a big bust-up that I had with my English teacher once, at school. I was about 9 years old, and I was at Comboni College, Khartoum, where my teacher was an Egyptian gentleman. He was teaching us about London, where I was born, and when he got to the name of London's river, he told the class that it was the river /thaymees/ (like "rabies"). I put up my hand and offered another opinion. But he wouldn't have it. I was severely reprimanded, and the class was reassured about the correct pronunciation. Actually, most people quite like "getting the pronunciation right," as part of a modest process of acculturation. All they need is some information about the history of word change, and they can make up their own minds whether they want to emulate historical speakers of Sanskrit (who cared, and followed a learned tradition of ?ik??, after all) or contemporary tourists superimposing English speech patterns on written words in unhelpful transliterations. I'm absolutely certain I don't get my Arabic right, but I'd really like to. Now, where's the FAQ.arabic.com? :-) Best, Dominik On 15 February 2010 17:52, wrote: > Isn't every one being a bit too precious about all this? > What do French speakers do with English names? > What does everyone do with Chinese? > How many of us get our Arabic quite right? > Not to mention Thai, Tibetan or Khmer... > > The idea that one is going to launch a campaign to > rectify the massacre of Indian names and terms in > English is plain silly when you think about it. > > Matthew > > Matthew T. Kapstein > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies > The University of Chicago Divinity School > > Directeur d'?tudes > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Feb 16 12:15:47 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 10 13:15:47 +0100 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: <4B79C07D.1070704@comcast.net> Message-ID: <161227088617.23782.14990634736392002705.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1042 Lines: 27 On 15 February 2010 22:45, george thompson wrote: I agree about publishers, George. Like many on this list, I'm sure, I've had my share of arguments with publishers about accents. I've found it helpful to draw an analogy with French or German. It wouldn't be acceptable to print those languages without their accents, and nor is it acceptable for Sanskrit. You said, > I would also like to complain about a decision that was made by the editors > of the Clay Sanskrit Library. This is a great and valuable collection of > translations, but I think that they made a bad decision when they chose to > ignore diacritic marks in their translatons. > There's lots to discuss about the various Clay decisions, but one thing I quite like is the use of the acute accent to mark stress or ictus. While ictus isn't the same as vowel length, it's pretty close to gauravam, and people who know nothing of Sanskrit and don't have access to a teacher do rather well reading such accented words out loud. Best, Dominik From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET Tue Feb 16 13:36:12 2010 From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 10 13:36:12 +0000 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088621.23782.15155994448508604829.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1702 Lines: 41 I also agree with George about this. I have found publishers pretty amenable about diacritics. However in case of argument it is certainly worth making the point about treating Sanskrit with the same respect as French or German. There is also the fact that omitting diacritics can cause confusion between different words (cp. the kali/kAlI point). It's not a great problem to write a pronunciation guide, and I don't think anyone minds if you recycle one you've done before, especially if you replace the examples with ones relevant to the current work. Valerie J Roebuck At 1:15 pm +0100 16/2/10, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >On 15 February 2010 22:45, george thompson wrote: > >I agree about publishers, George. Like many on this list, I'm sure, I've >had my share of arguments with publishers about accents. I've found it >helpful to draw an analogy with French or German. It wouldn't be acceptable >to print those languages without their accents, and nor is it acceptable for >Sanskrit. > >You said, > >> I would also like to complain about a decision that was made by the editors >> of the Clay Sanskrit Library. This is a great and valuable collection of >> translations, but I think that they made a bad decision when they chose to >> ignore diacritic marks in their translatons. >> > >There's lots to discuss about the various Clay decisions, but one thing I >quite like is the use of the acute accent to mark stress or ictus. While >ictus isn't the same as vowel length, it's pretty close to gauravam, and >people who know nothing of Sanskrit and don't have access to a teacher do >rather well reading such accented words out loud. > >Best, >Dominik From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Wed Feb 17 03:06:09 2010 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (george thompson) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 10 22:06:09 -0500 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088628.23782.17349105685214183148.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1404 Lines: 41 With regard to Dominik's last point: >There's lots to discuss about the various Clay decisions, but one thing I >quite like is the use of the acute accent to mark stress or ictus. While >ictus isn't the same as vowel length, it's pretty close to gauravam, and >people who know nothing of Sanskrit and don't have access to a teacher do >rather well reading such accented words out loud. > >Best, >Dominik > > > Agreed. But I am a Vedicist who spends most of his time working on accented Vedic texts like the Rigveda. So for me at least this use of the acute accent marker is disconcerting, since Vedicists need to mark both long and short vowels as well as pitch. I think that the best way to go, in general, is to start with the very simple and easy distinction between short and long vowels. The Clay system does not do that. In fact, the Clay program doesn't do Vedic at all. What does that mean? In my view, the Clay Library system of transliteration is an arbitrary and a completely unsuccessful failure. Is 'Rama' [with or without acute accent] reallly better than 'Raama?' Is 'Sita' an acceptable equivalent for 'Siitaa'? Is 'Praja-pati' okay in any sense? You will find all of these ghastly forms and many more in the Clay editions. What is wrong with using long and short vowel markers instead? Sincerely, I think that the alternative is absurd. Best wishes George From tlsmith at UFL.EDU Wed Feb 17 03:59:43 2010 From: tlsmith at UFL.EDU (Smith,Travis LaMar) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 10 22:59:43 -0500 Subject: Southern trip of "vaaraaNasii" (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088633.23782.5535444135391148107.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4884 Lines: 113 I am surprised and fascinated by these southern pronunciations of Varanasi. Regarding V.S. Rajam's report of a third variant, however: (iii) ?????? "vAraNasii". In a recent blog, I found the following quote from the famous singer M.S. Subbulakshmi's "suprabatham" : "?????? ?????? ?? ??????????" ["vAraNasii kulapatE ... ... "], which is interesting since the vowel in the last syllable of the city's name under consideration is long. My memory of the "suprabatham" doesn't help me here. I don't have music recordings to confirm this fact either. Note that the vowels in the syllables of ?????? "vAraNasii" are long-short-short-long. I suspect that the source of this is actually the popular hymn attributed (doubtfully, needless to say) to ZaMkaraacaarya, the refrain of which runs: "vaaraaNasii-pura-patiM bhaja vizvanaatham...." It is of course in the same meter as the several suprabhAtam hymns, addressed to various deities, and also uses the technique of the repeated final pAda refrain, hence the confusion with the suprabhAtam mini-genre. I don't think I've heard M.S. Subbalakshmi's version but I'd be surprised if it were not this: it's quite well-known among the legions of Sanskrit praise-hymns to Varanasi. The point being that this is probably not an additional variant of vaaraaNasii, but simply the "official" Sanskrit version. The other variants remain very interesting, and I wonder if and how early they follow the common Puranic etymology of vaaraaNasii = varaNaa + asii (as per the Tamil lexicon cited by Jean-Luc Chevillard). I still assume that this is a "creative" etymology and not a historical one (one would expect a long-A in the penultimate syllable if it were a real compound), but its (premodern?) employment outside of the Sanskrit PuraaNa-s would be a matter worth exploring. Thanks and best to all, -- Travis L. Smith Assistant Professor Department of Religion University of Florida ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of rajam [rajam at EARTHLINK.NET] Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:49 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Southern trip of "vaaraaNasii" (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ) In Tamil, there seems to be a three-way rendition of the term "vaaraaNasii" (as the name of the city) [as originally provided by Gary Tubb]: (i) ???????? "vAraNavAsi" (as attested in an earlier literature, kalittokai ?????????, and later inscriptions). This form can be construed as the combination of: "vAraN(a) + v (glide) + Asi" I also recall that ???????? "vAraNavAsi" is the form attested in ??????????? ??????? ariccantira purANam, the epic describing the story of "Harischandra." I don't have a copy of the book to quote it. Note that the vowels in the syllables of ???????? "vAraNavAsi" are long-short-short-long-short. (ii) ??????? "vAraNAsi" (as attested in certain types of literary texts such the Manimekalai ????????, Tevaram ???????, and ???????????? , Periyapuranam) . This form can be construed as the combination of: "vAraN + Asi" Note that the vowels in the syllables of ??????? "vAraNAsi" are long-short-long-short. In any case, I can assure that phonology, meter in poetry, and music have had their roles in rendering different versions of the same name in Tamil. Regards, V.S. Rajam (< www.letsgrammar.org>) On Feb 15, 2010, at 1:43 AM, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: > I would be interested in having comments > on the Tamil form: ??????? [v?ra??ci]. > > See the Tamil Lexicon (p. 3610) > > ??????? v?ra??ci, n. < V?ra?as?. Benares, > situate between the rivers Vara?? and As?; ????. > ??????????? > ???????????? (???. 13, 3). > > See also another entry (p.3609), which gives a different spelling. > > ?????? v?ra?aci, n. < v?ra?as?. See > ???????. (????. ??.) > > The authority quoted by the Tamil Lexicon for the spelling > v?ra??ci is the Ma?im?kalai > and comes from the chapter that tells the story of > ?????????. > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris) > > > Le 2/15/2010 6:42 AM, Gary Tubb a ?crit : >> I am tempted to add, in the section on mispronunciations, an entry >> on "vaaraaNasii" (as the name of the city), with a note to the >> effect that, for the same reasons as given for "mahaabhaarata" and >> "raamaayaNa," the third syllable in this name is the least >> appropriate place to apply a stress accent. But I have been >> struck over the years by the frequency with which many people I >> respect as experts on Banaras habitually lengthen and stress the >> vowel in the third syllable---so much so that I wonder whether >> they might be following some local tradition unknown to me, >> despite the official spelling of the name. Are they? Is there >> any good reason to make the third "a" vowel in "Varanasi" long? >> >> --- >> Gary Tubb, Professor and Chair >> Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations >> The University of Chicago >> From tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU Wed Feb 17 14:06:16 2010 From: tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU (Gary Tubb) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 10 08:06:16 -0600 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088640.23782.6467143387303549697.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1316 Lines: 33 Dominik, we may be dealing here with, more precisely, English word rhythm choices earmarked for attacking foreign words. In speaking to earlier generations of students, I used to call this the "Art Fleming syndrome." Art Fleming was the host of the television quiz show "Jeopardy" throughout most of the '60's and '70's, and among his many charms was the notorious practice of pronouncing every unfamiliar foreign word as if it were Spanish (actually Spanish with an American English accent, which would have him pronounce words like Ramayana and Mahabharata with the stress on the penultimate syllable, but with a non-Spanish reduction of the preceding vowel). Mr. Fleming did this with such confidence (following the advice of another great American showman, P.T. Barnum: "If you don't know how to pronounce a word, say it LOUD") that he probably helped millions feel reassured in indulging the same instinct. What causes speakers of North Indian languages such as Hindi to make a similar shift in some English place names, such as "amriikaa" for "America"? Has Portuguese or some other language intervened in the history of this word? --G. Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Some notes on English word stress rules: > > http://www.englishclub.com/pronunciation/word-stress-rules.htm > > > D > From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Feb 17 13:33:37 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 10 08:33:37 -0500 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi Message-ID: <161227088638.23782.1159462966749744022.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1285 Lines: 24 "Of course, as Einstein proved, it's all relative (that's a joke)." Actually, as someone remarked, he could as appropriately have named the theory, "The Theory of the Absolute Speed of Light." Was he pushing relativism in other fields, as some have used his work to do? Interesting point, though off the subject. Anyway, Sanskrit in large part for many many centuries has been a language radically formed not only by prescriptive grammar but by prescriptive phonetics, described in terms of articulation. Anyway, a bunch of tiny thugs or prissy little misses on the playground of a preschool are as radically prescriptivist and demanding of a new kid who talks funny as the most pedantic grammarian or driest schoolmarm. So much for certain American sociolinguistics who deride prescriptive grammar, even in the schools. Pardon random venting of a mind that had to get up too early this morning and hasn't had enough coffee yet. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Wed Feb 17 16:37:14 2010 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 10 08:37:14 -0800 Subject: Southern trip of "vaaraaNasii" (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088663.23782.3587777980863789115.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5783 Lines: 150 I found a link to M.S.S' recitation: http://ww.smashits.com/music/malayalam/play/songs/452/Suprabhathams/ 9064/Kashi-Viswanatha-Suprabhatham.html Within the first 1.23 minutes of the recitation and later around 6+ minutes, I hear "vaaraaNasi" (???????) with the vowel pattern long-long-short-short, which is different from what I saw in the blog (??????). I don't hear a long vowel at the end of "vaaraaNasi" maybe because of the smooth gliding into the next word. A word spoken in isolation may be mangled (or, is allowed to be mangled) in singing? This happens quite often in Tamil. --r On Feb 16, 2010, at 7:59 PM, Smith,Travis LaMar wrote: > I am surprised and fascinated by these southern pronunciations of > Varanasi. Regarding V.S. Rajam's report of a third variant, however: > > (iii) ?????? "vAraNasii". In a recent blog, I found the > following quote from the famous singer M.S. Subbulakshmi's > "suprabatham" : "?????? ?????? ?? > ??????????" ["vAraNasii kulapatE ... ... "], which > is interesting since the vowel in the last syllable of the city's > name under consideration is long. My memory of the "suprabatham" > doesn't help me here. I don't have music recordings to confirm this > fact either. > Note that the vowels in the syllables of ?????? > "vAraNasii" are long-short-short-long. > > I suspect that the source of this is actually the popular hymn > attributed (doubtfully, needless to say) to ZaMkaraacaarya, the > refrain of which runs: "vaaraaNasii-pura-patiM bhaja > vizvanaatham...." It is of course in the same meter as the several > suprabhAtam hymns, addressed to various deities, and also uses the > technique of the repeated final pAda refrain, hence the confusion > with the suprabhAtam mini-genre. I don't think I've heard M.S. > Subbalakshmi's version but I'd be surprised if it were not this: > it's quite well-known among the legions of Sanskrit praise-hymns to > Varanasi. The point being that this is probably not an additional > variant of vaaraaNasii, but simply the "official" Sanskrit version. > > The other variants remain very interesting, and I wonder if and how > early they follow the common Puranic etymology of vaaraaNasii = > varaNaa + asii (as per the Tamil lexicon cited by Jean-Luc > Chevillard). I still assume that this is a "creative" etymology and > not a historical one (one would expect a long-A in the penultimate > syllable if it were a real compound), but its (premodern?) > employment outside of the Sanskrit PuraaNa-s would be a matter > worth exploring. > > Thanks and best to all, > > -- > Travis L. Smith > Assistant Professor > Department of Religion > University of Florida > ________________________________________ > From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of rajam > [rajam at EARTHLINK.NET] > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:49 PM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Southern trip of "vaaraaNasii" (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ) > > In Tamil, there seems to be a three-way rendition of the term > "vaaraaNasii" (as the name of the city) [as originally provided by > Gary Tubb]: > > (i) ???????? > "vAraNavAsi" (as attested in an earlier literature, kalittokai > ?????????, and later inscriptions). This form can be > construed as the combination of: "vAraN(a) + v (glide) + Asi" > > I also recall that ???????? "vAraNavAsi" is the form > attested in ??????????? ??????? > ariccantira purANam, the epic describing the story of "Harischandra." > I don't have a copy of the book to quote it. > > Note that the vowels in the syllables of ???????? > "vAraNavAsi" are long-short-short-long-short. > > (ii) ??????? "vAraNAsi" (as attested in certain types of > literary texts such the Manimekalai ????????, > Tevaram ???????, and > ???????????? > , Periyapuranam) > . This form can be construed as the combination of: "vAraN + Asi" > > Note that the vowels in the syllables of ??????? > "vAraNAsi" are long-short-long-short. > > > In any case, I can assure that phonology, meter in poetry, and music > have had their roles in rendering different versions of the same name > in Tamil. > > Regards, > V.S. Rajam > (< www.letsgrammar.org>) > > > > On Feb 15, 2010, at 1:43 AM, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: > >> I would be interested in having comments >> on the Tamil form: ??????? [v?ra??ci]. >> >> See the Tamil Lexicon (p. 3610) >> >> ??????? v?ra??ci, n. < V?ra?as?. Benares, >> situate between the rivers Vara?? and As?; ????. >> ??????????? >> ???????????? (???. 13, 3). >> >> See also another entry (p.3609), which gives a different spelling. >> >> ?????? v?ra?aci, n. < v?ra?as?. See >> ???????. (????. ??.) >> >> The authority quoted by the Tamil Lexicon for the spelling >> v?ra??ci is the Ma?im?kalai >> and comes from the chapter that tells the story of >> ?????????. >> >> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris) >> >> >> Le 2/15/2010 6:42 AM, Gary Tubb a ?crit : >>> I am tempted to add, in the section on mispronunciations, an entry >>> on "vaaraaNasii" (as the name of the city), with a note to the >>> effect that, for the same reasons as given for "mahaabhaarata" and >>> "raamaayaNa," the third syllable in this name is the least >>> appropriate place to apply a stress accent. But I have been >>> struck over the years by the frequency with which many people I >>> respect as experts on Banaras habitually lengthen and stress the >>> vowel in the third syllable---so much so that I wonder whether >>> they might be following some local tradition unknown to me, >>> despite the official spelling of the name. Are they? Is there >>> any good reason to make the third "a" vowel in "Varanasi" long? >>> >>> --- >>> Gary Tubb, Professor and Chair >>> Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations >>> The University of Chicago From tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU Wed Feb 17 14:37:50 2010 From: tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU (Gary Tubb) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 10 08:37:50 -0600 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088648.23782.1738853171453888892.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2684 Lines: 64 It must have been Strunk who said it first. It's the sort of statement that tends to be put back on Barnum (this time apparently by me), just as statements of another type are attracted to the corpus of things said by Yogi Berra (or Amaru or Mirabai). --Gary Tubb. Herman Tull wrote: > From the obscure footnote department--perhaps this principle was first > enunciated by P. T. Barnum, but it was popularized by the great New > Yorker writer, E. B. White in describing his teacher, Willaim Strunk > (recounted in the preface to their "Elements of Style"): > > "He felt it was worse to be irresolute than to be wrong. I remember a > day in class when he leaned far forward, in his characteristic > pose--the pose of a man about to impart a secret--and croaked, "If you > don't know how to pronounce a word, say it loud! If you don't know > how to pronounce a word, say it loud!" This comical piece of advice > struck me as sound at the time, and I still respect it. Why compound > ignorance with inaudibility. Why run and hide?" > > Herman Tull > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Gary Tubb" > Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 9:06 AM > To: > Subject: Re: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi > >> Dominik, we may be dealing here with, more precisely, English word >> rhythm choices earmarked for attacking foreign words. In speaking to >> earlier generations of students, I used to call this the "Art Fleming >> syndrome." Art Fleming was the host of the television quiz show >> "Jeopardy" throughout most of the '60's and '70's, and among his many >> charms was the notorious practice of pronouncing every unfamiliar >> foreign word as if it were Spanish (actually Spanish with an American >> English accent, which would have him pronounce words like Ramayana >> and Mahabharata with the stress on the penultimate syllable, but with >> a non-Spanish reduction of the preceding vowel). Mr. Fleming did >> this with such confidence (following the advice of another great >> American showman, P.T. Barnum: "If you don't know how to pronounce a >> word, say it LOUD") that he probably helped millions feel reassured >> in indulging the same instinct. >> >> What causes speakers of North Indian languages such as Hindi to make >> a similar shift in some English place names, such as "amriikaa" for >> "America"? Has Portuguese or some other language intervened in the >> history of this word? >> >> --G. >> >> Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >>> Some notes on English word stress rules: >>> >>> http://www.englishclub.com/pronunciation/word-stress-rules.htm >>> >>> >>> D >>> >> From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Wed Feb 17 14:11:50 2010 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 10 09:11:50 -0500 Subject: Sanskrit song by a Chinese singer Message-ID: <161227088643.23782.6383585585325531799.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2089 Lines: 53 While we are on pronunciation of Sanskrit, someone sent me the Youtube link for a Sanskrit song sung by a Chinese pop-singer. Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvQf4JIimzM I would appreciate if someone can figure out the Sanskrit words/sounds she is singing. The first word seems to be something like "nama?". Best Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Gary Tubb [tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 9:06 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi Dominik, we may be dealing here with, more precisely, English word rhythm choices earmarked for attacking foreign words. In speaking to earlier generations of students, I used to call this the "Art Fleming syndrome." Art Fleming was the host of the television quiz show "Jeopardy" throughout most of the '60's and '70's, and among his many charms was the notorious practice of pronouncing every unfamiliar foreign word as if it were Spanish (actually Spanish with an American English accent, which would have him pronounce words like Ramayana and Mahabharata with the stress on the penultimate syllable, but with a non-Spanish reduction of the preceding vowel). Mr. Fleming did this with such confidence (following the advice of another great American showman, P.T. Barnum: "If you don't know how to pronounce a word, say it LOUD") that he probably helped millions feel reassured in indulging the same instinct. What causes speakers of North Indian languages such as Hindi to make a similar shift in some English place names, such as "amriikaa" for "America"? Has Portuguese or some other language intervened in the history of this word? --G. Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Some notes on English word stress rules: > > http://www.englishclub.com/pronunciation/word-stress-rules.htm > > > D > From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Wed Feb 17 03:56:36 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 10 09:26:36 +0530 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088630.23782.6331216598369781623.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3501 Lines: 80 Dear All, I enormously thank everybody for the enlightening debate. It just came to me that perhaps the problem is deeper. ?A lecture is not intended by me and any silly utterance should ?be forgiven. Anyone can note that as yet there is no theory that can fully identify, not to speak of a technique to teach, what Ducrot calls the ?arbitraire linguistique fundamental ? as distinguished from the peculiarity of each phoneme. Learners are taught the latter while the former is just vaguely identified. ?See Martinet?s remarks (?conomie? ) on the Farsi bad and the English bad. ?This is why mastering the exact pronunciation is impossible at present. The problem with classical languages is further complicated by the non-existence of the original speakers. ? Best for all DB --- On Tue, 16/2/10, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: From: Dominik Wujastyk Subject: Re: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 16 February, 2010, 5:35 PM So anyone can pronounce any word any way they like?? Surely you don't think that? I don't think it's being precious at all, Matthew.? Of course, as Einstein proved, it's all relative (that's a joke).? But then again, it's not all relative, and there is indeed right and wrong, in a particular framed, situated locale (like spoken Sanskrit).? The criterion is what is received as comfortable, acceptable, and immediately intelligible by the community of other local speakers.? We're not launching a campaign, but answering frequently-asked questions.? (Or will be, if anyone actually writes any of this in faq.indology.info) I am reminded of a big bust-up that I had with my English teacher once, at school.? I was about 9 years old, and I was at Comboni College, Khartoum, where my teacher was an Egyptian gentleman.? He was teaching us about London, where I was born, and when he got to the name of London's river, he told the class that it was the river /thaymees/ (like "rabies").? I put up my hand and offered another opinion.? But he wouldn't have it.? I was severely reprimanded, and the class was reassured about the correct pronunciation. Actually, most people quite like "getting the pronunciation right," as part of a modest process of acculturation.? All they need is some information about the history of word change, and they can make up their own minds whether they want to emulate historical speakers of Sanskrit (who cared, and followed a learned tradition of ?ik??, after all) or contemporary tourists superimposing English speech patterns on written words in unhelpful transliterations. I'm absolutely certain I don't get my Arabic right, but I'd really like to. Now, where's the FAQ.arabic.com? :-) Best, Dominik On 15 February 2010 17:52, wrote: > Isn't every one being a bit too precious about all this? > What do French speakers do with English names? > What does everyone do with Chinese? > How many of us get our Arabic quite right? > Not to mention Thai, Tibetan or Khmer... > > The idea that one is going to launch a campaign to > rectify the massacre of Indian names and terms in > English is plain silly when you think about it. > > Matthew > > Matthew T. Kapstein > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies > The University of Chicago Divinity School > > Directeur d'?tudes > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From hwtull at MSN.COM Wed Feb 17 14:31:57 2010 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 10 09:31:57 -0500 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: <4B7BF7D8.1010404@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227088645.23782.747234042325957818.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2324 Lines: 54 >?From the obscure footnote department--perhaps this principle was first enunciated by P. T. Barnum, but it was popularized by the great New Yorker writer, E. B. White in describing his teacher, Willaim Strunk (recounted in the preface to their "Elements of Style"): "He felt it was worse to be irresolute than to be wrong. I remember a day in class when he leaned far forward, in his characteristic pose--the pose of a man about to impart a secret--and croaked, "If you don't know how to pronounce a word, say it loud! If you don't know how to pronounce a word, say it loud!" This comical piece of advice struck me as sound at the time, and I still respect it. Why compound ignorance with inaudibility. Why run and hide?" Herman Tull -------------------------------------------------- From: "Gary Tubb" Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 9:06 AM To: Subject: Re: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi > Dominik, we may be dealing here with, more precisely, English word rhythm > choices earmarked for attacking foreign words. In speaking to earlier > generations of students, I used to call this the "Art Fleming syndrome." > Art Fleming was the host of the television quiz show "Jeopardy" throughout > most of the '60's and '70's, and among his many charms was the notorious > practice of pronouncing every unfamiliar foreign word as if it were > Spanish (actually Spanish with an American English accent, which would > have him pronounce words like Ramayana and Mahabharata with the stress on > the penultimate syllable, but with a non-Spanish reduction of the > preceding vowel). Mr. Fleming did this with such confidence (following > the advice of another great American showman, P.T. Barnum: "If you don't > know how to pronounce a word, say it LOUD") that he probably helped > millions feel reassured in indulging the same instinct. > > What causes speakers of North Indian languages such as Hindi to make a > similar shift in some English place names, such as "amriikaa" for > "America"? Has Portuguese or some other language intervened in the > history of this word? > > --G. > > Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >> Some notes on English word stress rules: >> >> http://www.englishclub.com/pronunciation/word-stress-rules.htm >> >> >> D >> > From fp7 at COLUMBIA.EDU Wed Feb 17 15:31:11 2010 From: fp7 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Frances Pritchett) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 10 10:31:11 -0500 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088652.23782.8449481050389620179.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3052 Lines: 72 And then there was the apparently universal habit among news commentators of speaking of "Ra-ZHeev" Gandhi. My theory is that the zh for j was borrowed from French ("jeune"), and sounded nice and exotic, while plain old j didn't have that same satisfying ring. As for amriikaa , if you imagine yourself as working from the look only, not the sound, then it could happen, since "e" is often used by casual transliterators for short a ("sunder," "Inder"). And transliterators often work from the look; thus Urdu discussions of the thought of "Go-ii-thii". This is a very enjoyable topic, it gives us all a chance to vent... Fran Herman Tull wrote: > From the obscure footnote department--perhaps this principle was first > enunciated by P. T. Barnum, but it was popularized by the great New > Yorker writer, E. B. White in describing his teacher, Willaim Strunk > (recounted in the preface to their "Elements of Style"): > > "He felt it was worse to be irresolute than to be wrong. I remember a > day in class when he leaned far forward, in his characteristic > pose--the pose of a man about to impart a secret--and croaked, "If you > don't know how to pronounce a word, say it loud! If you don't know > how to pronounce a word, say it loud!" This comical piece of advice > struck me as sound at the time, and I still respect it. Why compound > ignorance with inaudibility. Why run and hide?" > > Herman Tull > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Gary Tubb" > Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 9:06 AM > To: > Subject: Re: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi > >> Dominik, we may be dealing here with, more precisely, English word >> rhythm choices earmarked for attacking foreign words. In speaking to >> earlier generations of students, I used to call this the "Art Fleming >> syndrome." Art Fleming was the host of the television quiz show >> "Jeopardy" throughout most of the '60's and '70's, and among his many >> charms was the notorious practice of pronouncing every unfamiliar >> foreign word as if it were Spanish (actually Spanish with an American >> English accent, which would have him pronounce words like Ramayana >> and Mahabharata with the stress on the penultimate syllable, but with >> a non-Spanish reduction of the preceding vowel). Mr. Fleming did >> this with such confidence (following the advice of another great >> American showman, P.T. Barnum: "If you don't know how to pronounce a >> word, say it LOUD") that he probably helped millions feel reassured >> in indulging the same instinct. >> >> What causes speakers of North Indian languages such as Hindi to make >> a similar shift in some English place names, such as "amriikaa" for >> "America"? Has Portuguese or some other language intervened in the >> history of this word? >> >> --G. >> >> Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >>> Some notes on English word stress rules: >>> >>> http://www.englishclub.com/pronunciation/word-stress-rules.htm >>> >>> >>> D >>> >> > From rhayes at UNM.EDU Wed Feb 17 17:38:31 2010 From: rhayes at UNM.EDU (Richard P. Hayes) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 10 10:38:31 -0700 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: <20100217T114434Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227088668.23782.4475392084603435044.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1236 Lines: 31 On Wed, 2010-02-17 at 11:44 -0500, Allen W Thrasher wrote: > "And then there was the apparently universal habit among news > commentators of speaking of "Ra-ZHeev" Gandhi. My theory is that the zh > for j was borrowed from French ("jeune"), and sounded nice and exotic, > while plain old j didn't have that same satisfying ring." It occurs to me that a similar consideration may account for the misplacement of 'h' in many Indic words as spelled by Americans, e.g., Ghandi and Buddah. After all, 'h' is silent in Spanish and French (the two languages other than English that Americans are most likely to know or at least know something about), so it must be silent in all foreign languages. And if a letter is silent, it really doesn't matter where one puts it, right? Of course, Americans know that 'h' sometimes is part of a digraphic representation of a single sound, so American Ayurvedic aficionados will talk about their kapha (kaffa), and Yankee yogis will practice their hatha (where 'th' is pronounced as in 'think'). Sorry for being precious again, Matthew. It's hard to resist having fun at the expense of Americans. -- Richard Philip Hayes Department of Philosophy (What a nice bundle of words with 'h', eh?) From silviadintino at YAHOO.COM Wed Feb 17 18:44:36 2010 From: silviadintino at YAHOO.COM (Silvia D'Intino) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 10 10:44:36 -0800 Subject: Intensive Course in Vedic Grammar and Syntax In-Reply-To: <4DD6E8A9FCDD4B1FB52C6849D153668B@SlajePC> Message-ID: <161227088671.23782.16932365463933970212.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2311 Lines: 68 Mia Cate, Avrei tanto voluto invitarlo, se solo avessi saputo che era in Germania (e non a Kyoto) all'epoca del convegno... Avremmo potuto spostarlo all'8 e 9/10? Si puo' fare un convegno di sabato??Scusami, ? che sento le cose sfuggirmi di mano in questi giorni (non sono riuscita ancora a finire una prima versione della lettera). Ti abbraccio,tuaSilvia --- En date de?: Mer 17.2.10, Walter Slaje a ?crit?: De: Walter Slaje Objet: Intensive Course in Vedic Grammar and Syntax ?: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Mercredi 17 f?vrier 2010, 7h51 Dear Colleagues, I am pleased to announce that an Intensive Course in Vedic Grammar and Syntax ("Indian Summer in Halle 2010") will be held at the Indology Department of Martin Luther University Halle (Saale) from September 27th to October 8th, 2010: http://www.indologie.uni-halle.de/aktuelles/poster_veda.pdf The course, comprising an introduction into Vedic grammar and syntax as well as the reading of Vedic hymns and prose, will be taught by Dr. Werner Knobl (Kyoto). The medium of teaching will be German. All those interested in the course are most welcome and kindly asked to register by July 1, 2010. Further details are available on our website: http://www.indologie.uni-halle.de/aktuelles/index.htm The classes start just after the German Oriental Studies Congress (DOT) in Marburg (20-24 September). More details are available on our website: http://www.indologie.uni-halle.de/aktuelles/index.htm Please do pass on this message to anyone possibly interested. ? ? ? Contact: PD Dr. Annette Schmiedchen ? ???Dr. Katrin Einicke ? ??? ? ? ? annette.schmiedchen at indologie.uni-halle.de ? ???katrin.einicke at indologie.uni-halle.de ? ??? ? ? ? +49-(0)345/ 55 23650 ? ???+49-(0)345/ 55 23656 ? ??? Kindly regarding, Walter Slaje ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Feb 17 16:44:34 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 10 11:44:34 -0500 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi Message-ID: <161227088666.23782.1259180470593772535.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 753 Lines: 21 "And then there was the apparently universal habit among news commentators of speaking of "Ra-ZHeev" Gandhi. My theory is that the zh for j was borrowed from French ("jeune"), and sounded nice and exotic, while plain old j didn't have that same satisfying ring." The same is fairly common in pronouncing "raja" and "maharaja." Indeed, perhaps the zh sound in "Razheev" is a transfer from these words. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From silviadintino at YAHOO.COM Wed Feb 17 19:49:09 2010 From: silviadintino at YAHOO.COM (Silvia D'Intino) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 10 11:49:09 -0800 Subject: erratum Message-ID: <161227088679.23782.984879501362440266.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2642 Lines: 84 Sorry for sending a private mail to the list. Silvia D'Intino --- En date de?: Mer 17.2.10, Silvia D'Intino a ?crit?: De: Silvia D'Intino Objet: Re : Intensive Course in Vedic Grammar and Syntax ?: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Mercredi 17 f?vrier 2010, 10h44 Mia Cate, Avrei tanto voluto invitarlo, se solo avessi saputo che era in Germania (e non a Kyoto) all'epoca del convegno... Avremmo potuto spostarlo all'8 e 9/10? Si puo' fare un convegno di sabato??Scusami, ? che sento le cose sfuggirmi di mano in questi giorni (non sono riuscita ancora a finire una prima versione della lettera). Ti abbraccio,tuaSilvia --- En date de?: Mer 17.2.10, Walter Slaje a ?crit?: De: Walter Slaje Objet: Intensive Course in Vedic Grammar and Syntax ?: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Mercredi 17 f?vrier 2010, 7h51 Dear Colleagues, I am pleased to announce that an Intensive Course in Vedic Grammar and Syntax ("Indian Summer in Halle 2010") will be held at the Indology Department of Martin Luther University Halle (Saale) from September 27th to October 8th, 2010: http://www.indologie.uni-halle.de/aktuelles/poster_veda.pdf The course, comprising an introduction into Vedic grammar and syntax as well as the reading of Vedic hymns and prose, will be taught by Dr. Werner Knobl (Kyoto). The medium of teaching will be German. All those interested in the course are most welcome and kindly asked to register by July 1, 2010. Further details are available on our website: http://www.indologie.uni-halle.de/aktuelles/index.htm The classes start just after the German Oriental Studies Congress (DOT) in Marburg (20-24 September). More details are available on our website: http://www.indologie.uni-halle.de/aktuelles/index.htm Please do pass on this message to anyone possibly interested. ? ? ? Contact: PD Dr. Annette Schmiedchen ? ???Dr. Katrin Einicke ? ??? ? ? ? annette.schmiedchen at indologie.uni-halle.de ? ???katrin.einicke at indologie.uni-halle.de ? ??? ? ? ? +49-(0)345/ 55 23650 ? ???+49-(0)345/ 55 23656 ? ??? Kindly regarding, Walter Slaje ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Feb 17 11:07:36 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 10 12:07:36 +0100 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: <92545.59429.qm@web8604.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088636.23782.16262458196190268430.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 112 Lines: 9 Some notes on English word stress rules: http://www.englishclub.com/pronunciation/word-stress-rules.htm D From aprigliano at USP.BR Wed Feb 17 15:36:00 2010 From: aprigliano at USP.BR (Adriano Aprigliano) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 10 13:36:00 -0200 Subject: RES: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: <4B7BF7D8.1010404@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227088657.23782.10948643544462724549.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1848 Lines: 51 Dear colleagues Answering Gary Tubb's question, in portuguese the stress in America is on the e, following the original italian of Americo Vespucci. I think the hindi pronunciation should probably have been modeled on the arabic amriikaa. Best Adriano Aprigliano Universidade de S?o Paulo Brasil -----Mensagem original----- De: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Em nome de Gary Tubb Enviada em: quarta-feira, 17 de fevereiro de 2010 12:06 Para: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Assunto: Re: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi Dominik, we may be dealing here with, more precisely, English word rhythm choices earmarked for attacking foreign words. In speaking to earlier generations of students, I used to call this the "Art Fleming syndrome." Art Fleming was the host of the television quiz show "Jeopardy" throughout most of the '60's and '70's, and among his many charms was the notorious practice of pronouncing every unfamiliar foreign word as if it were Spanish (actually Spanish with an American English accent, which would have him pronounce words like Ramayana and Mahabharata with the stress on the penultimate syllable, but with a non-Spanish reduction of the preceding vowel). Mr. Fleming did this with such confidence (following the advice of another great American showman, P.T. Barnum: "If you don't know how to pronounce a word, say it LOUD") that he probably helped millions feel reassured in indulging the same instinct. What causes speakers of North Indian languages such as Hindi to make a similar shift in some English place names, such as "amriikaa" for "America"? Has Portuguese or some other language intervened in the history of this word? --G. Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Some notes on English word stress rules: > > http://www.englishclub.com/pronunciation/word-stress-rules.htm > > > D > From hwtull at MSN.COM Wed Feb 17 19:03:00 2010 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 10 14:03:00 -0500 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: <1266428311.2081.39.camel@rhayes-desktop> Message-ID: <161227088674.23782.704974459930657625.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2605 Lines: 61 This is irresistible, but speaking of "h"-s there is that little matter of the transformation of the Sanskrit "s" to the Persian "h"--not an "error" at all, or is it? And, these lines, I always take pains to teach students to pronounce "phala" with an aspirated "p" sound, and not to confuse it with the "f" sound that is represented by "ph" in English (as in "nephew"). This year, however, I have a student (a native Bengali speaker) who pronounces it as as "fala". I hesitate to "correct" him (I spend enough time trying to "get" his pronunciation of initial "a"-s which, of course, he pronounces [as do tens of millions of his countrymen] as "o-s"). When we discussed this, he cheerfully informed me that we really never can be sure exactly how native Sanskrit speakers pronounced their words. By the way, I've brought to the attention of my introductory Sanskrit class some of the central elements of this topic (no names of course). It led to a lively class discussion--in fact, much to my regret (and my students' glee), we barely had time for our translation work. regards, Herman -------------------------------------------------- From: "Richard P. Hayes" Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 12:38 PM To: Subject: Re: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi > On Wed, 2010-02-17 at 11:44 -0500, Allen W Thrasher wrote: > >> "And then there was the apparently universal habit among news >> commentators of speaking of "Ra-ZHeev" Gandhi. My theory is that the zh >> for j was borrowed from French ("jeune"), and sounded nice and exotic, >> while plain old j didn't have that same satisfying ring." > > It occurs to me that a similar consideration may account for the > misplacement of 'h' in many Indic words as spelled by Americans, e.g., > Ghandi and Buddah. After all, 'h' is silent in Spanish and French (the > two languages other than English that Americans are most likely to know > or at least know something about), so it must be silent in all foreign > languages. And if a letter is silent, it really doesn't matter where one > puts it, right? > > Of course, Americans know that 'h' sometimes is part of a digraphic > representation of a single sound, so American Ayurvedic aficionados will > talk about their kapha (kaffa), and Yankee yogis will practice their > hatha (where 'th' is pronounced as in 'think'). > > Sorry for being precious again, Matthew. It's hard to resist having fun > at the expense of Americans. > > > -- > Richard Philip Hayes > Department of Philosophy > (What a nice bundle of words with 'h', eh?) > From jkirk at SPRO.NET Wed Feb 17 21:25:37 2010 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 10 14:25:37 -0700 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: <4B7C071D0200003A000775B7@ntgwgate.loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227088687.23782.7095531605714690186.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1347 Lines: 32 "And, these lines, I always take pains to teach students to pronounce "phala" with an aspirated "p" sound, and not to confuse it with the "f" sound that is represented by "ph" in English (as in "nephew"). This year, however, I have a student (a native Bengali speaker) who pronounces it as as "fala". I hesitate to "correct" him (I spend enough time trying to "get" his pronunciation of initial "a"-s which, of course, he pronounces [as do tens of millions of his countrymen] as "o-s"). When we discussed this, he cheerfully informed me that we really never can be sure exactly how native Sanskrit speakers pronounced their words." I once had a similar Bengali student. For some idiosyncractic reason, the thing that really got my goat was not his pronouncing "ph" as "f" but pronouncing kS as kkha, though that is a very ancient equivalence, as in yakSa/yakkha or jakkha. Allen May I add to this that, at least in Bangladesh, former east Bengal (and E. Pakistan), 'j's are ordinarily (not necessairly by elites) pronounced as zeds. Raajaa is pronounced Raazaa. I enjoyed learning how to pronounce words their way. There is so much more of interest in the Bengali pronunciation of, say, vishvavidyalaya, as "biishobiidaloi"; satya is shotto; as from Laalon Shah Fokiir: "aamaar mon shotto bon". It's a whole different world. Joanna K. From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Feb 17 20:11:25 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 10 15:11:25 -0500 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088682.23782.10413081337893313927.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1233 Lines: 26 "And, these lines, I always take pains to teach students to pronounce "phala" with an aspirated "p" sound, and not to confuse it with the "f" sound that is represented by "ph" in English (as in "nephew"). This year, however, I have a student (a native Bengali speaker) who pronounces it as as "fala". I hesitate to "correct" him (I spend enough time trying to "get" his pronunciation of initial "a"-s which, of course, he pronounces [as do tens of millions of his countrymen] as "o-s"). When we discussed this, he cheerfully informed me that we really never can be sure exactly how native Sanskrit speakers pronounced their words." I once had a similar Bengali student. For some idiosyncractic reason, the thing that really got my goat was not his pronouncing "ph" as "f" but pronouncing kS as kkha, though that is a very ancient equivalence, as in yakSa/yakkha or jakkha. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Wed Feb 17 15:40:07 2010 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 10 16:40:07 +0100 Subject: Intensive Course in P=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81li?= Grammar and Syntax Message-ID: <161227088655.23782.7945101892151417393.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1612 Lines: 51 Dear Colleagues, I am pleased to announce that an Intensive Course in P?li Grammar and Syntax will be held at the Indology Department of Martin Luther University Halle (Saale) from September 6th to 17th, 2010: http://www.indologie.uni-halle.de/aktuelles/poster_pali.pdf This course, comprising an introduction into P?li grammar and syntax as well as the reading of the P?timokkhasutta and the Ka?kh?vitara??, will be taught by Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz (Weimar). The medium of teaching will be German. All those interested in the course are most welcome and kindly asked to register by July 1, 2010. The timing allows to attend the immediately following German Oriental Studies Congress (DOT) in Marburg (20-24 September). More details are available on our website: http://www.indologie.uni-halle.de/aktuelles/index.htm Please do pass on this message to anyone possibly interested. Contact: PD Dr. Annette Schmiedchen Dr. Katrin Einicke annette.schmiedchen at indologie.uni-halle.de katrin.einicke at indologie.uni-halle.de +49-(0)345/ 55 23650 +49-(0)345/ 55 23656 Kindly regarding, Walter Slaje ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Wed Feb 17 15:51:02 2010 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 10 16:51:02 +0100 Subject: Intensive Course in Vedic Grammar and Syntax Message-ID: <161227088660.23782.14026681088994185588.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1706 Lines: 53 Dear Colleagues, I am pleased to announce that an Intensive Course in Vedic Grammar and Syntax ("Indian Summer in Halle 2010") will be held at the Indology Department of Martin Luther University Halle (Saale) from September 27th to October 8th, 2010: http://www.indologie.uni-halle.de/aktuelles/poster_veda.pdf The course, comprising an introduction into Vedic grammar and syntax as well as the reading of Vedic hymns and prose, will be taught by Dr. Werner Knobl (Kyoto). The medium of teaching will be German. All those interested in the course are most welcome and kindly asked to register by July 1, 2010. Further details are available on our website: http://www.indologie.uni-halle.de/aktuelles/index.htm The classes start just after the German Oriental Studies Congress (DOT) in Marburg (20-24 September). More details are available on our website: http://www.indologie.uni-halle.de/aktuelles/index.htm Please do pass on this message to anyone possibly interested. Contact: PD Dr. Annette Schmiedchen Dr. Katrin Einicke annette.schmiedchen at indologie.uni-halle.de katrin.einicke at indologie.uni-halle.de +49-(0)345/ 55 23650 +49-(0)345/ 55 23656 Kindly regarding, Walter Slaje ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From ingeardagum at YAHOO.CO.UK Wed Feb 17 20:15:37 2010 From: ingeardagum at YAHOO.CO.UK (Benjamin Slade) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 10 20:15:37 +0000 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088684.23782.10392978191856185.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4005 Lines: 73 The pronunciation of "f" for "ph" is a wide-spread phenomenon among (some) speakers of Indo-Aryan languages; e.g. Hindu/Urdu _phal_ "fruit" is sometimes rendered by native Hindi speakers as _fal_, _phir_ "then" as _fir_, _phul_ "flower" rendered as _ful_ (Hindi films like to play with the resulting homophony with the English borrowing _ful_ "fool"...). As far as I can tell, these are all hypercorrections: Indo-Aryan languages don't 'natively' possess the phone "f", but many borrowings from Perso-Arabic (and, later, of course, English) do, e.g. Hindi _faislaa_ "decision" (< Persian), _fon_ "phone" (from English). Speakers of rural dialects tend to approximate all of these "f"s as "ph"s, thus _phaislaa_, _phon_. More 'sophisticated' speakers usually render these properly as "f"s, but sometimes at the cost of 'converting' all "ph"s to "f"s: thus _fal_ for _phal_, _ful_ for _phul_ etc. ------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Slade Dept. of Linguistics University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign email: bslade at illinois.edu website: http://www.jnanam.net/slade/ lingblog: St?fcr?ft & Vyakarana - http://staefcraeft.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ From: Herman Tull To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Wed, 17 February, 2010 13:03:00 Subject: Re: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi This is irresistible, but speaking of "h"-s there is that little matter of the transformation of the Sanskrit "s" to the Persian "h"--not an "error" at all, or is it? And, these lines, I always take pains to teach students to pronounce "phala" with an aspirated "p" sound, and not to confuse it with the "f" sound that is represented by "ph" in English (as in "nephew"). This year, however, I have a student (a native Bengali speaker) who pronounces it as as "fala". I hesitate to "correct" him (I spend enough time trying to "get" his pronunciation of initial "a"-s which, of course, he pronounces [as do tens of millions of his countrymen] as "o-s"). When we discussed this, he cheerfully informed me that we really never can be sure exactly how native Sanskrit speakers pronounced their words. By the way, I've brought to the attention of my introductory Sanskrit class some of the central elements of this topic (no names of course). It led to a lively class discussion--in fact, much to my regret (and my students' glee), we barely had time for our translation work. regards, Herman -------------------------------------------------- From: "Richard P. Hayes" Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 12:38 PM To: Subject: Re: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi > On Wed, 2010-02-17 at 11:44 -0500, Allen W Thrasher wrote: > >> "And then there was the apparently universal habit among news >> commentators of speaking of "Ra-ZHeev" Gandhi. My theory is that the zh >> for j was borrowed from French ("jeune"), and sounded nice and exotic, >> while plain old j didn't have that same satisfying ring." > > It occurs to me that a similar consideration may account for the > misplacement of 'h' in many Indic words as spelled by Americans, e.g., > Ghandi and Buddah. After all, 'h' is silent in Spanish and French (the > two languages other than English that Americans are most likely to know > or at least know something about), so it must be silent in all foreign > languages. And if a letter is silent, it really doesn't matter where one > puts it, right? > > Of course, Americans know that 'h' sometimes is part of a digraphic > representation of a single sound, so American Ayurvedic aficionados will > talk about their kapha (kaffa), and Yankee yogis will practice their > hatha (where 'th' is pronounced as in 'think'). > > Sorry for being precious again, Matthew. It's hard to resist having fun > at the expense of Americans. > > > -- Richard Philip Hayes > Department of Philosophy > (What a nice bundle of words with 'h', eh?) > From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Wed Feb 17 14:49:32 2010 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 10 20:19:32 +0530 Subject: Sanskrit song by a Chinese singer In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D704D34C3325@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227088650.23782.7296931441024175938.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2485 Lines: 70 It's rather easier if you start with this one, since it has subtitles (the pronunciation and transliteration knock all the variants of Benares into a cocked hat !) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-W84T_lMNY&feature=related On 17 Feb 2010, at 19:41, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: > While we are on pronunciation of Sanskrit, someone sent me the > Youtube link for a Sanskrit song sung by a Chinese pop-singer. Here > is the link: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvQf4JIimzM > > I would appreciate if someone can figure out the Sanskrit words/ > sounds she is singing. The first word seems to be something like > "nama?". Best > > Madhav > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA > ________________________________________ > From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Gary Tubb [tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU > ] > Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 9:06 AM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi > > Dominik, we may be dealing here with, more precisely, English word > rhythm choices earmarked for attacking foreign words. In speaking to > earlier generations of students, I used to call this the "Art Fleming > syndrome." Art Fleming was the host of the television quiz show > "Jeopardy" throughout most of the '60's and '70's, and among his many > charms was the notorious practice of pronouncing every unfamiliar > foreign word as if it were Spanish (actually Spanish with an American > English accent, which would have him pronounce words like Ramayana and > Mahabharata with the stress on the penultimate syllable, but with a > non-Spanish reduction of the preceding vowel). Mr. Fleming did this > with such confidence (following the advice of another great American > showman, P.T. Barnum: "If you don't know how to pronounce a word, > say it > LOUD") that he probably helped millions feel reassured in indulging > the > same instinct. > > What causes speakers of North Indian languages such as Hindi to make a > similar shift in some English place names, such as "amriikaa" for > "America"? Has Portuguese or some other language intervened in the > history of this word? > > --G. > > Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >> Some notes on English word stress rules: >> >> http://www.englishclub.com/pronunciation/word-stress-rules.htm >> >> >> D >> From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Wed Feb 17 19:38:39 2010 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 10 20:38:39 +0100 Subject: "La roue tourne" (Re: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088676.23782.13611963360271884869.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4045 Lines: 113 Dear Herman, Cher Herman, thanks a lot for sharing your deeply felt experience with your students (and especially with the student from Bengal) Since the discussion has become very "non-academic," please allow me to use my full linguistic capacity (in French) for adding some further comments {{otherwise, we, native French citizen, would become second zone World citizens :-(( }} merci de partager votre/ton exp?rience avec vos/tes ?tudiants. [[By using the slash ["/"]sign, I am trying to overcome one of the translation gaps between English and French :-) ]] C'est tr?s touchant! "La roue tourne", sans jamais s'arr?ter! Qui peut savoir comment les propos que nous avons ?chang?s ces derniers jours seront interpr?t?s plus tard, par les archivistes du monde? Peut-?tre que le souvenir d'enfance (? Khartoum) que Dominik Wujastyk a partag? r?cemment avec nous sera utilis? plus tard par un historien (a historical linguist) pour prouver que certains ?gyptiens ont entendu parler de "La Tamise" avant d'entendre parler de "The Thames". [[(I am referring to the comparison /thaymees/ (like "rabies")]] Comme l'a dit Blaise Pascal, le monde est quelque chose "dont le centre est partout et la circonf?rence nulle part". There is nothing wrong with that !! Cheers -- Jean-Luc (Paris, France) Le 2/17/2010 8:03 PM, Herman Tull a ?crit : > This is irresistible, but speaking of "h"-s there is that little > matter of the transformation of the Sanskrit "s" to the Persian > "h"--not an "error" at all, or is it? > > And, these lines, I always take pains to teach students to pronounce > "phala" with an aspirated "p" sound, and not to confuse it with the > "f" sound that is represented by "ph" in English (as in "nephew"). > This year, however, I have a student (a native Bengali speaker) who > pronounces it as as "fala". I hesitate to "correct" him (I spend > enough time trying to "get" his pronunciation of initial "a"-s which, > of course, he pronounces [as do tens of millions of his countrymen] as > "o-s"). When we discussed this, he cheerfully informed me that we > really never can be sure exactly how native Sanskrit speakers > pronounced their words. > > By the way, I've brought to the attention of my introductory Sanskrit > class some of the central elements of this topic (no names of > course). It led to a lively class discussion--in fact, much to my > regret (and my students' glee), we barely had time for our translation > work. > > regards, > > Herman > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Richard P. Hayes" > Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 12:38 PM > To: > Subject: Re: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi > >> On Wed, 2010-02-17 at 11:44 -0500, Allen W Thrasher wrote: >> >>> "And then there was the apparently universal habit among news >>> commentators of speaking of "Ra-ZHeev" Gandhi. My theory is that the zh >>> for j was borrowed from French ("jeune"), and sounded nice and exotic, >>> while plain old j didn't have that same satisfying ring." >> >> It occurs to me that a similar consideration may account for the >> misplacement of 'h' in many Indic words as spelled by Americans, e.g., >> Ghandi and Buddah. After all, 'h' is silent in Spanish and French (the >> two languages other than English that Americans are most likely to know >> or at least know something about), so it must be silent in all foreign >> languages. And if a letter is silent, it really doesn't matter where one >> puts it, right? >> >> Of course, Americans know that 'h' sometimes is part of a digraphic >> representation of a single sound, so American Ayurvedic aficionados will >> talk about their kapha (kaffa), and Yankee yogis will practice their >> hatha (where 'th' is pronounced as in 'think'). >> >> Sorry for being precious again, Matthew. It's hard to resist having fun >> at the expense of Americans. >> >> >> -- >> Richard Philip Hayes >> Department of Philosophy >> (What a nice bundle of words with 'h', eh?) >> > From wedemeyer at UCHICAGO.EDU Thu Feb 18 16:41:53 2010 From: wedemeyer at UCHICAGO.EDU (Christian K. Wedemeyer) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 10 10:41:53 -0600 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: <732128.80942.qm@web23101.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088689.23782.15849341925431261719.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1792 Lines: 45 On Feb 17, 2010, at 2:15 PM, Benjamin Slade wrote: > The pronunciation of "f" for "ph" is a wide-spread phenomenon among > (some) speakers of Indo-Aryan languages; e.g. Hindu/Urdu _phal_ > "fruit" is sometimes rendered by native Hindi speakers as _fal_, > _phir_ "then" as _fir_, _phul_ "flower" rendered as _ful_ (Hindi > films like to play with the resulting homophony with the English > borrowing _ful_ "fool"...).As far as I can tell, these are all > hypercorrections: (I'm not a linguist, so excuse any clumsiness:) But, are these labiodental fricatives, like the English f, or bilabial (as, for instance, in Japanese)? I would suspect the bilabial version (which is what I have heard, I believe, in Northern India and Nepal), which is similar in articulation to a voiceless aspirated labial. In that case, rather than "hypercorrection," might this perhaps be due to a more general, systemic phonetic change (possibly stimulated by contact with Perso-Arabic speakers)? Or is this not a useful distinction? (Sorry, I'm with Allen...gotta get some more coffee...) -- Christian K. Wedemeyer Assistant Professor of the History of Religions University of Chicago Divinity School 1025 E 58th Street Chicago, IL 60637 P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. This email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this email message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and destroy/delete all copies of the transmittal. Thank you From athr at LOC.GOV Thu Feb 18 18:58:36 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 10 13:58:36 -0500 Subject: Clay Sanskrt Lirary (Was: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088697.23782.7293663446554463837.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 535 Lines: 18 Prof. Gombrich, If no more works are to be added to the series, are there at least provisions for keeping the books in print indefinitely, along the lines of the Loeb and I Tatti series? Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From athr at LOC.GOV Thu Feb 18 19:52:26 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 10 14:52:26 -0500 Subject: Clay Sanskrt Lirary (Was: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: <2D470FA1-8855-4C91-9DD2-78919156F4AE@balliol.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <161227088702.23782.15452135516756517103.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1036 Lines: 37 Thanks. Allen >>> Richard Gombrich 2/18/2010 2:08 PM >>> I am sorry to have to tell you that I have absolutely no connection nowadays with the Clay Sanskrit Library and simply do not know the answer to your important question. It is possible that Prof Sheldon Pollock is better informed, as he remained employed for some time after I left. Richard Gombrich On 18 Feb 2010, at 18:58, Allen W Thrasher wrote: > Prof. Gombrich, > > If no more works are to be added to the series, are there at least > provisions for keeping the books in print indefinitely, along the > lines of the Loeb and I Tatti series? > > Allen > > Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. > Senior Reference Librarian > Team Coordinator > South Asia Team, Asian Division > Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 > 101 Independence Ave., S.E. > Washington, DC 20540-4810 > tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov > The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the > Library of Congress. From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Thu Feb 18 19:55:25 2010 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (george thompson) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 10 14:55:25 -0500 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088704.23782.9903303432224224983.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5339 Lines: 123 Well, I am glad, Richard, that my post gave you a good laugh. It was surely a little too vehement for such a small topic [pedagogical rather than scholarly, after all], but my point, I think, still stands. I think that John Clay's ambition was admirable, and I think that the translations that have been produced as a result of his ambition have generally been of high quality. So I do not say that the Clay Sanskrit Library is a failure. But I do think that the decision to to create this alternative transciption system, entirely artificial and surely confusing to the new user, was a mistake. As you yourself say, the readers interested in correct transcription and pronunciation of the Sanskrit text were "only a very small minority." Sanskritists [even beginning ones] will of course glance over to the left hand page. But since such readers were "only a small minority" [and who therefore probably did not need the extra help] maybe it would have been wiser to attend more thoughtfully to the needs of the vast majority of your readership -- i.e. those readers who either would not make the effort to glance to the left hand page, or who, even if they did, would be unsure of what they were looking for or seeing. I disagree that the typical uninformed non-Sanskritist [the majority of your audience] would have an easy time with the diacritical formating of the Clay Sanskrit Library, because the left-hand page operates with one system, whereas the right hand page operates with another one. Honestly, I think that I know the majority of your audience better than you do. Cheers! George Richard Gombrich wrote: > I am a former General Editor of the Clay Sanskrit Library. Because > of its sudden unforeseen demise just over two years ago, it is a > painful subject. However, at least George Thompson's posting has > given me a good laugh. > > It was John Clay's ambition to introduce classical Sanskrit > literature to a wider public, and we have ample evidence that in this > aim he was far from unsuccessful. A scholarly man, unusually well > endowed with common sense and experience of the wider world, he > argued that the failure to reach a wider public must largely be laid > at the door of Sanskritists themselves, who refused to offer the > world books which ordinary educated people could regard as readable. > He was joined by a fair number of Sanskritists, many of them young, > who were or became convinced that he was right. The collapse of the > series had absolutely nothing to do with this issue. > > George Thompson is correct: the Clay programme did not include > Vedic. Therefore the need to have regard for conventions in > transliterating Vedic is not obvious to me. We also left the > conventions for transliterating modern Indian languages, e.g. Hindi, > out of consideration. > > Our conventions for transliterating Sanskrit names might have been > different had the normal scholarly transliteration not been on show a > couple of inches to the left. The reader interested in such matters > -- and we have ample evidence that they constituted only a very small > minority, sad though this may be -- were deemed to be capable of > moving the direction of their gaze by that very small distance. > Since the names began with capital letters on the left-hand page as > well, no one could possibly miss them. We thus found a remarkably > economical way of conveying a lot of information: it is very easy for > anyone to garner full information about the pronunciation of every > Sanskrit name, while those who do not care about that are at least > nudged into pronouncing the name with a correct stress. > > Richard Gombrich > > > On 17 Feb 2010, at 03:06, george thompson wrote: > >> With regard to Dominik's last point: >> >>> There's lots to discuss about the various Clay decisions, but one >>> thing I >>> quite like is the use of the acute accent to mark stress or ictus. >>> While >>> ictus isn't the same as vowel length, it's pretty close to >>> gauravam, and >>> people who know nothing of Sanskrit and don't have access to a >>> teacher do >>> rather well reading such accented words out loud. >>> >>> Best, >>> Dominik >>> >>> >>> >> Agreed. But I am a Vedicist who spends most of his time working on >> accented Vedic texts like the Rigveda. So for me at least this use of >> the acute accent marker is disconcerting, since Vedicists need to mark >> both long and short vowels as well as pitch. I think that the best way >> to go, in general, is to start with the very simple and easy >> distinction >> between short and long vowels. The Clay system does not do that. In >> fact, the Clay program doesn't do Vedic at all. >> >> What does that mean? >> >> In my view, the Clay Library system of transliteration is an arbitrary >> and a completely unsuccessful failure. >> >> Is 'Rama' [with or without acute accent] reallly better than 'Raama?' >> Is 'Sita' an acceptable equivalent for 'Siitaa'? >> >> Is 'Praja-pati' okay in any sense? >> >> You will find all of these ghastly forms and many more in the Clay >> editions. >> >> What is wrong with using long and short vowel markers instead? >> Sincerely, I think that the alternative is absurd. >> >> Best wishes >> George > > From richard.gombrich at BALLIOL.OX.AC.UK Thu Feb 18 16:46:46 2010 From: richard.gombrich at BALLIOL.OX.AC.UK (Richard Gombrich) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 10 16:46:46 +0000 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: <4B7B5D21.60706@comcast.net> Message-ID: <161227088692.23782.7147998817940045094.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3568 Lines: 88 I am a former General Editor of the Clay Sanskrit Library. Because of its sudden unforeseen demise just over two years ago, it is a painful subject. However, at least George Thompson's posting has given me a good laugh. It was John Clay's ambition to introduce classical Sanskrit literature to a wider public, and we have ample evidence that in this aim he was far from unsuccessful. A scholarly man, unusually well endowed with common sense and experience of the wider world, he argued that the failure to reach a wider public must largely be laid at the door of Sanskritists themselves, who refused to offer the world books which ordinary educated people could regard as readable. He was joined by a fair number of Sanskritists, many of them young, who were or became convinced that he was right. The collapse of the series had absolutely nothing to do with this issue. George Thompson is correct: the Clay programme did not include Vedic. Therefore the need to have regard for conventions in transliterating Vedic is not obvious to me. We also left the conventions for transliterating modern Indian languages, e.g. Hindi, out of consideration. Our conventions for transliterating Sanskrit names might have been different had the normal scholarly transliteration not been on show a couple of inches to the left. The reader interested in such matters -- and we have ample evidence that they constituted only a very small minority, sad though this may be -- were deemed to be capable of moving the direction of their gaze by that very small distance. Since the names began with capital letters on the left-hand page as well, no one could possibly miss them. We thus found a remarkably economical way of conveying a lot of information: it is very easy for anyone to garner full information about the pronunciation of every Sanskrit name, while those who do not care about that are at least nudged into pronouncing the name with a correct stress. Richard Gombrich On 17 Feb 2010, at 03:06, george thompson wrote: > With regard to Dominik's last point: > >> There's lots to discuss about the various Clay decisions, but one >> thing I >> quite like is the use of the acute accent to mark stress or ictus. >> While >> ictus isn't the same as vowel length, it's pretty close to >> gauravam, and >> people who know nothing of Sanskrit and don't have access to a >> teacher do >> rather well reading such accented words out loud. >> >> Best, >> Dominik >> >> >> > Agreed. But I am a Vedicist who spends most of his time working on > accented Vedic texts like the Rigveda. So for me at least this use of > the acute accent marker is disconcerting, since Vedicists need to mark > both long and short vowels as well as pitch. I think that the best > way > to go, in general, is to start with the very simple and easy > distinction > between short and long vowels. The Clay system does not do that. In > fact, the Clay program doesn't do Vedic at all. > > What does that mean? > > In my view, the Clay Library system of transliteration is an arbitrary > and a completely unsuccessful failure. > > Is 'Rama' [with or without acute accent] reallly better than 'Raama?' > Is 'Sita' an acceptable equivalent for 'Siitaa'? > > Is 'Praja-pati' okay in any sense? > > You will find all of these ghastly forms and many more in the Clay > editions. > > What is wrong with using long and short vowel markers instead? > Sincerely, I think that the alternative is absurd. > > Best wishes > George From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Feb 18 16:56:12 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 10 17:56:12 +0100 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088694.23782.9637302321832708145.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 552 Lines: 18 On 17 February 2010 20:03, Herman Tull wrote: > When we discussed this, he cheerfully informed me that we really never can > be sure exactly how native Sanskrit speakers pronounced their words. > You can cheerfully inform him back that we have a pretty good idea, since phonetics was invented in India, two millennia ago. He might like W. S. Allen's classic Phonetics in ancient India . It's great that this all gave your class an enjoyable discussion! Dominik From richard.gombrich at BALLIOL.OX.AC.UK Thu Feb 18 19:08:06 2010 From: richard.gombrich at BALLIOL.OX.AC.UK (Richard Gombrich) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 10 19:08:06 +0000 Subject: Clay Sanskrt Lirary (Was: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: <4B7D478C0200003A00077800@ntgwgate.loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227088699.23782.16075464211206646731.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 936 Lines: 32 I am sorry to have to tell you that I have absolutely no connection nowadays with the Clay Sanskrit Library and simply do not know the answer to your important question. It is possible that Prof Sheldon Pollock is better informed, as he remained employed for some time after I left. Richard Gombrich On 18 Feb 2010, at 18:58, Allen W Thrasher wrote: > Prof. Gombrich, > > If no more works are to be added to the series, are there at least > provisions for keeping the books in print indefinitely, along the > lines of the Loeb and I Tatti series? > > Allen > > Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. > Senior Reference Librarian > Team Coordinator > South Asia Team, Asian Division > Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 > 101 Independence Ave., S.E. > Washington, DC 20540-4810 > tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov > The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the > Library of Congress. From bloturco at CENTOPER.IT Fri Feb 19 09:13:43 2010 From: bloturco at CENTOPER.IT (Bruno Lo Turco) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 10 10:13:43 +0100 Subject: help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088706.23782.15764636593607598502.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 8 Lines: 4 help From jim at KHECARI.COM Fri Feb 19 12:11:50 2010 From: jim at KHECARI.COM (James Mallinson) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 10 12:11:50 +0000 Subject: Skandapur=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81=E1=B9=87a_p=C4=81=C5=9Bupatayoga?= In-Reply-To: <8B882BE5-1EAC-4C18-81DF-2015B0B46B39@ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <161227088709.23782.17576168132642257942.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 638 Lines: 19 Dear Peter, I hope all is well with you. I guess your kids are quite grown up by now. We had another girl, Willa, last summer so are back in the thick of things. Teething has begun! Oh well, she is wonderful all the same. Jason Birch recently passed on your transcription of the P??upata yoga section of the Skandapur??a. Fascinating stuff. If it's ok with you I'd like to refer to it in an article I'm working on and also in a book I'm preparing (I hope to have the first draft ready by the end of the summer, but that might just be a dream...). So I'm writing to confirm that this is ok with you. All the best, Jim From jim at KHECARI.COM Fri Feb 19 12:23:49 2010 From: jim at KHECARI.COM (James Mallinson) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 10 12:23:49 +0000 Subject: Skandapur=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81=E1=B9=87a_p=C4=81=C5=9Bupatayoga?= In-Reply-To: <43432F6A-1A02-476F-BD88-497637E51151@khecari.com> Message-ID: <161227088711.23782.326749657855620736.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 68 Lines: 6 Apologies to all for the wrongly addressed private message, Jim From ingeardagum at YAHOO.CO.UK Fri Feb 19 22:28:42 2010 From: ingeardagum at YAHOO.CO.UK (Benjamin Slade) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 10 14:28:42 -0800 Subject: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi In-Reply-To: <3A9D56AD-6E6A-4CC4-9F3F-3E2C12EA538B@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227088713.23782.4781240622847192033.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2300 Lines: 43 All of the speakers I'm familiar with who produce "f", produce it as a labiodental fricative (as in English). Many Nepali speakers don't produce "f" at all (but rather "ph"), but those who do again seem to produce it as a labiodental. If it is the case that "ph" for some speakers is becoming a bilabial fricative, this would indeed be distinct from "hypercorrection". --B. From: Christian K. Wedemeyer To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Thu, 18 February, 2010 10:41:53 Subject: Re: INDOLOGY FAQ. Re. Varanasi On Feb 17, 2010, at 2:15 PM, Benjamin Slade wrote: > The pronunciation of "f" for "ph" is a wide-spread phenomenon among (some) speakers of Indo-Aryan languages; e.g. Hindu/Urdu _phal_ "fruit" is sometimes rendered by native Hindi speakers as _fal_, _phir_ "then" as _fir_, _phul_ "flower" rendered as _ful_ (Hindi films like to play with the resulting homophony with the English borrowing _ful_ "fool"...).As far as I can tell, these are all hypercorrections: (I'm not a linguist, so excuse any clumsiness:) But, are these labiodental fricatives, like the English f, or bilabial (as, for instance, in Japanese)? I would suspect the bilabial version (which is what I have heard, I believe, in Northern India and Nepal), which is similar in articulation to a voiceless aspirated labial. In that case, rather than "hypercorrection," might this perhaps be due to a more general, systemic phonetic change (possibly stimulated by contact with Perso-Arabic speakers)? Or is this not a useful distinction? (Sorry, I'm with Allen...gotta get some more coffee...) -- Christian K. Wedemeyer Assistant Professor of the History of Religions University of Chicago Divinity School 1025 E 58th Street Chicago, IL 60637 P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. This email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this email message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and destroy/delete all copies of the transmittal. Thank you From h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX Sat Feb 20 22:32:17 2010 From: h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX (Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 10 14:32:17 -0800 Subject: Can you help with Sanskrit translation? In-Reply-To: <33C5E45B-D137-47B4-9DD8-171D92021B17@fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <161227088718.23782.15110644906943847224.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2092 Lines: 69 Dear Professors: Can you helpme with this transletion. Because some of my friends ask me this: We want to name him Kiran, but cannot find the exact Sanskrit translation. "Kiran das" can be found on lists with names of devotees of Krishna, but the meaning is never specified. Doing a search in Google brings up "Ray of Light", "Beam of Light", "Ray of the Sun", "Sun light", "Moon Light" etc. Some times you can also find the name "Adhi Kiran das" (perhaps meaning the origin of the sun light, but hey ... I don't know, I'm just guessing:)? Does anybody know what it means exactly in Sanskrit, and perhaps in what context it is typically used linguistically? If someone would cut it up in pieces, analyze it and feed it to me with a spoon Lic. M.A. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad Internacional Euroamericana. Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada. Miembro del Instituto de Estudios Filos?ficos de Saltillo A. C. www.uie.edu.es --- El s?b 20-feb-10, Michael Witzel escribi?: De:: Michael Witzel Asunto: Summer School: Intro to Sanskrit A: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Fecha: s?bado, 20 de febrero de 2010, 20:36 As for last 20 years, a Sanskrit? introductory course? will again be taught as part of the Harvard Summer School, from June 21 to August 6 (final exam). For details please see: Registration (and request for housing) start Feb. 22: General information: See you in late June! M. WItzel ============ Michael Witzel witzel at fas.harvard.edu Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University 1 Bow Street, Cambridge MA 02138, USA phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295 (voice & messages), 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; my direct line:? 617- 496 2990 Encuentra las mejores recetas en Yahoo! Cocina. http://mx.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/ From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Sat Feb 20 20:36:19 2010 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 10 15:36:19 -0500 Subject: Summer School: Intro to Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227088716.23782.17202093107650071449.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 754 Lines: 34 As for last 20 years, a Sanskrit introductory course will again be taught as part of the Harvard Summer School, from June 21 to August 6 (final exam). For details please see: Registration (and request for housing) start Feb. 22: General information: See you in late June! M. WItzel ============ Michael Witzel witzel at fas.harvard.edu Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University 1 Bow Street, Cambridge MA 02138, USA phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295 (voice & messages), 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; my direct line: 617- 496 2990 From eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM Sun Feb 21 04:39:17 2010 From: eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM (Dean Michael Anderson) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 10 20:39:17 -0800 Subject: Can you help with Sanskrit translation? In-Reply-To: <499579.93049.qm@web45609.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088721.23782.15112925431910292103.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2661 Lines: 81 Kiran - more properly kiraNa - means a beam of light usually Das is a surname that means servant. It is commonly taken by followers of the Vaishnava Bhakti path. It means 'servant of god' to indicate humility and not a lower class type of servant. Best, Dean Michael Anderson --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez wrote: From: Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez Subject: Can you help with Sanskrit translation? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 4:02 AM Dear Professors: Can you helpme with this transletion. Because some of my friends ask me this: We want to name him Kiran, but cannot find the exact Sanskrit translation. "Kiran das" can be found on lists with names of devotees of Krishna, but the meaning is never specified. Doing a search in Google brings up "Ray of Light", "Beam of Light", "Ray of the Sun", "Sun light", "Moon Light" etc. Some times you can also find the name "Adhi Kiran das" (perhaps meaning the origin of the sun light, but hey ... I don't know, I'm just guessing:)? Does anybody know what it means exactly in Sanskrit, and perhaps in what context it is typically used linguistically? If someone would cut it up in pieces, analyze it and feed it to me with a spoon Lic. M.A. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad Internacional Euroamericana. Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada. Miembro del Instituto de Estudios Filos?ficos de Saltillo A. C. www.uie.edu.es --- El s?b 20-feb-10, Michael Witzel escribi?: De:: Michael Witzel Asunto: Summer School: Intro to Sanskrit A: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Fecha: s?bado, 20 de febrero de 2010, 20:36 As for last 20 years, a Sanskrit? introductory course? will again be taught as part of the Harvard Summer School, from June 21 to August 6 (final exam). For details please see: Registration (and request for housing) start Feb. 22: General information: See you in late June! M. WItzel ============ Michael Witzel witzel at fas.harvard.edu Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University 1 Bow Street, Cambridge MA 02138, USA phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295 (voice & messages), 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; my direct line:? 617- 496 2990 ? ? ? Encuentra las mejores recetas en Yahoo! Cocina.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? http://mx.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/ From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Sun Feb 21 04:59:02 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 10 10:29:02 +0530 Subject: Can you help with Sanskrit translation? In-Reply-To: <499579.93049.qm@web45609.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088724.23782.7182459668937932517.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2968 Lines: 94 ? Dear friend You have yourself given the answer. According to the existing view kiran is an NIA word derived from Sanskrit ???? kira?a meaning ?ray?. It derives from the root ?? : k? ?stem ???? : kir? 'to scatter'. ??????? Adhikiran? is not known to me as a Sanskrit word, It could be an NIA development with uninherited meaning. The title Das ?servant? is often adopted by Vashnavas in the sense of ?servant of God?. Does this help? Best wishes DB ? ? --- On Sun, 21/2/10, Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez wrote: From: Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez Subject: Can you help with Sanskrit translation? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Sunday, 21 February, 2010, 4:02 AM Dear Professors: Can you helpme with this transletion. Because some of my friends ask me this: We want to name him Kiran, but cannot find the exact Sanskrit translation. "Kiran das" can be found on lists with names of devotees of Krishna, but the meaning is never specified. Doing a search in Google brings up "Ray of Light", "Beam of Light", "Ray of the Sun", "Sun light", "Moon Light" etc. Some times you can also find the name "Adhi Kiran das" (perhaps meaning the origin of the sun light, but hey ... I don't know, I'm just guessing:)? Does anybody know what it means exactly in Sanskrit, and perhaps in what context it is typically used linguistically? If someone would cut it up in pieces, analyze it and feed it to me with a spoon Lic. M.A. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad Internacional Euroamericana. Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada. Miembro del Instituto de Estudios Filos?ficos de Saltillo A. C. www.uie.edu.es --- El s?b 20-feb-10, Michael Witzel escribi?: De:: Michael Witzel Asunto: Summer School: Intro to Sanskrit A: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Fecha: s?bado, 20 de febrero de 2010, 20:36 As for last 20 years, a Sanskrit? introductory course? will again be taught as part of the Harvard Summer School, from June 21 to August 6 (final exam). For details please see: Registration (and request for housing) start Feb. 22: General information: See you in late June! M. WItzel ============ Michael Witzel witzel at fas.harvard.edu Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University 1 Bow Street, Cambridge MA 02138, USA phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295 (voice & messages), 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; my direct line:? 617- 496 2990 ? ? ? Encuentra las mejores recetas en Yahoo! Cocina.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? http://mx.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/ Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Feb 21 12:32:12 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 10 12:32:12 +0000 Subject: Fwd: FW: Online petition for BMGS at King's In-Reply-To: <2BD9CE9BB835644993476FB8AF59A90C03E88AA6@exch-db-01.CC.rhul.local> Message-ID: <161227088726.23782.15398178314093030908.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1715 Lines: 64 Further disasters at King's College London. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Zipser, Barbara Date: 20 February 2010 18:03 Subject: FW: Online petition for BMGS at King's To: ucgavnu at ucl.ac.uk, Alessia , Chris < cmp22222 at aol.com>, Lorenzo , rm.piccione at gmx.de, claudia.stein at warwick.ac.uk, Dominik Dear all, they are trying to destroy Byzantine studies at King's. Please have a look at the petition and spread the word! Best wishes, Barbara ________________________________ From: Eastmond, Antony [mailto:Antony.Eastmond at courtauld.ac.uk ] Sent: 18 February 2010 10:29 Subject: FW: Online petition for BMGS at King's Dear Byzantinists & Medievalists, King's College London is proposing to dismember the Byzantine and Modern Greek Department and disperse its members among other departments. This will severely undermine the past decades of work carried out by successive chairs and lecturers to build up this major centre for research in the UK. Marc Lauxtermann has begun an on-line petition which we urge you to sign. The SPBS will continue to campaign, and welcomes any suggestions as to how to maximize its impact. The url is: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/sdbmgs10/petition.html. Please pass this on to all who may be interested. Antony Eastmond Secretary, Society for the Promotion of Byzantine Studies BEDLAM: Byzantine Email Distribution List And Mailing please send all messages for BEDLAM to antony.eastmond at courtauld.ac.uk < mailto:antony.eastmond at courtauld.ac.uk > From cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET Fri Jan 1 11:15:16 2010 From: cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET (George Cardona) Date: Fri, 01 Jan 10 06:15:16 -0500 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool Message-ID: <161227088046.23782.1942556294203032068.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1474 Lines: 56 But there is also a 'Sanskrit' selection! Happy new year. GC -----Original Message----- >From: Dominik Wujastyk >Sent: Jan 1, 2010 5:41 AM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool > >It's billed as "Hindi", after all. > >Happy New Year > >2009/12/31 George Thompson > >> Dear List, >> >> I went to this google transliteration site and started to type in the first >> lines of the Rigveda, and immedately I ran into problems. How does one >> generate something like Rtvijam? And how does one insert Vedic accent? >> >> This thing seems no better than earlier transliteration programs as far as >> I can see. >> >> George Thompson >> >> Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: >> >> It works. Are the aksharas from the Unicode? Baraha? and iTranslator?do >>> the same thing with a Unicode font. Still, many thanks for the link. Best >>> wishes for a brilliant 2010 for all! >>> DB >>> >>> --- On Thu, 24/12/09, Jonathan Silk wrote: >>> >>> >>> From: Jonathan Silk >>> Subject: well, rather cool, I think >>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>> Date: Thursday, 24 December, 2009, 1:39 AM >>> >>> >>> try this folks >>> >>> http://www.google.com/transliterate/ >>> >>> check the pull down menu on the left side. >>> >>> (I learned of this thanks to the incredible * >>> http://www.indologica.de/drupal/)* >>> >>> >> From jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM Fri Jan 1 14:45:23 2010 From: jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM (girish jha) Date: Fri, 01 Jan 10 06:45:23 -0800 Subject: NAVAVARSAM MADHUMAYAM Message-ID: <161227088057.23782.17447085076152346809.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 708 Lines: 22 ???????????????????????????????????????? Navavarsam 2010 Dear??Indologists, Pranamami.? Nisargen???ito? dvigun?a?i?irah? ?pa?cimamarut Tus??r?p?tena ?stimitataragh?s? ?hi ?vasudh?. Kr?s?iks?etre ?loko ?lasati ?yavagodh?masubhage Pracand??e ???tepi ?dhvanati ?navavars?am? ?madhumayam?.//1// Him?drir ?dev?tm??? pramuditaman? ??j?vanicitah? Samudro?py? utt?lah?? kusumitataruh?? paks?imukharah?. Prasann? ?k?lind?? surajananad?? pun?yasalil? Navam? ??g?tam? ?ramyam? dhvanati? navavars?am?? madhumayam?.//2//. Please? accept ?my ?very ?best ?wishes? for a happy,prosperous ?and? spiritual? New? Year? 2010. Sincerely GIRISH K. JHA DEPT OF SANSKRIT,PATNA UNIVERSITY,PATNA,INDIA TEL:+91? 9931490815 From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Fri Jan 1 14:17:25 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Fri, 01 Jan 10 08:17:25 -0600 Subject: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: <552146.13579.qm@web8608.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088053.23782.12542069026816046756.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 401 Lines: 15 Ranjana ("Lan tsha" in Tibetan), used as an ornamental script in Nepal and perhaps to some extent elsewhere in the north, may qualify as a dedicated Sanskrit script. I am not familiar, at least, with its use for other languages. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Jan 1 10:41:55 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 01 Jan 10 11:41:55 +0100 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool In-Reply-To: <4B3BE3EC.60304@comcast.net> Message-ID: <161227088044.23782.8350115987683565645.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1190 Lines: 47 It's billed as "Hindi", after all. Happy New Year 2009/12/31 George Thompson > Dear List, > > I went to this google transliteration site and started to type in the first > lines of the Rigveda, and immedately I ran into problems. How does one > generate something like Rtvijam? And how does one insert Vedic accent? > > This thing seems no better than earlier transliteration programs as far as > I can see. > > George Thompson > > Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > > It works. Are the aksharas from the Unicode? Baraha? and iTranslator?do >> the same thing with a Unicode font. Still, many thanks for the link. Best >> wishes for a brilliant 2010 for all! >> DB >> >> --- On Thu, 24/12/09, Jonathan Silk wrote: >> >> >> From: Jonathan Silk >> Subject: well, rather cool, I think >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Date: Thursday, 24 December, 2009, 1:39 AM >> >> >> try this folks >> >> http://www.google.com/transliterate/ >> >> check the pull down menu on the left side. >> >> (I learned of this thanks to the incredible * >> http://www.indologica.de/drupal/)* >> >> > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Jan 1 11:18:07 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 01 Jan 10 12:18:07 +0100 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool In-Reply-To: <2926644.1262344516695.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <161227088048.23782.4152195964923124552.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 60 Lines: 4 oh, I didn't realize. Ah, well. Entwicklung muss sein. From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Fri Jan 1 13:14:21 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 01 Jan 10 18:44:21 +0530 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088051.23782.4655233492656629038.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2083 Lines: 63 Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North??Grantha belongs to the South. A few other dedicated scripts eg., Nadinagari,?were developed in the Decaan. But none became popular in the nineteenth century. Oriya has ever been?as good for Oriya as for Sanskrit. So is Devnagari for Hindi and Sanskrit, Count Bengali, Telugu and Malayalam and Kannad too among others. And Gujarati, Newari, the?Brahmi and post-Brahmi script?and others I miss.??Similar to Latin, French, English,post-Kemal Turkish and post-war German? A situation ripe for Lewis Carroll. DB --- On Fri, 1/1/10, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: From: Dominik Wujastyk Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Friday, 1 January, 2010, 4:11 PM It's billed as "Hindi", after all. Happy New Year 2009/12/31 George Thompson > Dear List, > > I went to this google transliteration site and started to type in the first > lines of the Rigveda, and immedately I ran into problems. How does one > generate something like? Rtvijam????And? how does one insert Vedic accent? > > This thing seems no better than earlier transliteration programs as far as > I can see. > > George Thompson > > Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > >? It works. Are the aksharas from the Unicode? Baraha? and iTranslator?do >> the same thing with a Unicode font. Still, many thanks for the link. Best >> wishes for a brilliant 2010 for all! >> DB >> >> --- On Thu, 24/12/09, Jonathan Silk wrote: >> >> >> From: Jonathan Silk >> Subject: well, rather cool, I think >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Date: Thursday, 24 December, 2009, 1:39 AM >> >> >> try this folks >> >> http://www.google.com/transliterate/ >> >> check the pull down menu on the left side. >> >> (I learned of this thanks to the incredible * >> http://www.indologica.de/drupal/)* >> >> > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Fri Jan 1 14:34:58 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 01 Jan 10 20:04:58 +0530 Subject: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: <20100101081725.CHN03679@m4500-02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227088055.23782.17998855493662459093.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1220 Lines: 32 Interesting! I did not know of the use of Lan-tsha outside Nepal. P.C.Bagchi reported some Chinese examples too, now kept with the library here in published form. But their use too in north India is not known to me. Anyway, thanks for reminding of the Lan-tsha. It is not impossible that I missed a few others too. But the distinction between the Hindi script and the Sanskrit still eludes. Best wishes! Has the discussion gone too far? DB Visva Bharati University, Santiniketan? --- On Fri, 1/1/10, mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU wrote: From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Subject: Sanskrit script? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Friday, 1 January, 2010, 7:47 PM Ranjana ("Lan tsha" in Tibetan), used as an ornamental script in Nepal and perhaps to some extent elsewhere in the north, may qualify as a dedicated Sanskrit script. I am not familiar, at least, with its use for other languages. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU Sat Jan 2 11:36:04 2010 From: fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU (FRITS STAAL) Date: Sat, 02 Jan 10 03:36:04 -0800 Subject: NAVAVARSAM MADHUMAYAM In-Reply-To: <355098.97876.qm@web57707.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088059.23782.7464657083881314979.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 937 Lines: 35 Dear Dr. Jha, With many thanks for your good wishes I send you hereby my very best wishes for a happy and prosperous New Year 2010. yours > ???????????????????????????????????????? Navavarsam 2010 > Dear??Indologists, > Pranamami.? > Nisargen???ito? dvigun?a?i?irah? ?pa?cimamarut > Tus??r?p?tena ?stimitataragh?s? ?hi ?vasudh?. > Kr?s?iks?etre ?loko ?lasati ?yavagodh?masubhage > Pracand??e ???tepi ?dhvanati ?navavars?am? ?madhumayam?.//1// > Him?drir ?dev?tm??? pramuditaman? ??j?vanicitah? > Samudro?py? utt?lah?? kusumitataruh?? paks?imukharah?. > Prasann? ?k?lind?? surajananad?? pun?yasalil? > Navam? ??g?tam? ?ramyam? dhvanati? navavars?am?? madhumayam?.//2//. > Please? accept ?my ?very ?best ?wishes? for a happy,prosperous ?and? > spiritual? New? Year? 2010. > Sincerely > GIRISH K. JHA > DEPT OF SANSKRIT,PATNA UNIVERSITY,PATNA,INDIA > TEL:+91? 9931490815 > > > > Frits Staal http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/staal From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Sun Jan 3 03:37:34 2010 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel) Date: Sat, 02 Jan 10 22:37:34 -0500 Subject: new EJVS: R. Stuhrmann: Dream interpretation in Old India and Greece Message-ID: <161227088061.23782.11953560097735532911.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 857 Lines: 42 Dear Colleagues, we are happy to inform you of a new issue of EJVS, vol. 16-2, on the interpretation of dreams in Old India and Greece: Die Wurzeln der Traumdeutung in Indien und Griechenland -- Eine vergleichende Betrachtung (The roots of the interpretation of dreams in India and Greece -- a comparative investigation) by Rainer Stuhrmann (with a detailed English Summary) see: Electronic Journal of Vedic Studies, vol. 16-2 (Dec. 2009) A Happy New Year! Michael ============ Michael Witzel witzel at fas.harvard.edu Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University 1 Bow Street, Cambridge MA 02138, USA phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295 (voice & messages), 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; my direct line: 617- 496 2990 From athr at LOC.GOV Mon Jan 4 22:13:55 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Mon, 04 Jan 10 17:13:55 -0500 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? Message-ID: <161227088063.23782.10646177955699839056.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2357 Lines: 26 "Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North? Grantha belongs to the South. A few other dedicated scripts eg., Nadinagari, were developed in the Decaan. But none became popular in the nineteenth century. Oriya has ever been as good for Oriya as for Sanskrit. So is Devnagari for Hindi and Sanskrit, Count Bengali, Telugu and Malayalam and Kannad too among others. And Gujarati, Newari, the Brahmi and post-Brahmi script and others I miss. Similar to Latin, French, English,post-Kemal Turkish and post-war German? A situation ripe for Lewis Carroll. DB" I have always wondered if anyone has done a study of the progress of the use of Devanagari for Sanskrit. Is it a result of the development of a mass (pan-Indian, plus Western scholarly) market for printed Sanskrit? After what date would a South Indian or Bengali pundit or purohit be more likely than not to know Nagari in addition to his regional script? I have a vague memory that at some stage the Government of British India decided it would not subsidize any Sanskrit publications that weren't in Nagari, but can't for the life of me recall where I read or heard this. Has anyone heard of anything of the sort? Are there counter-examples? Whenever a member of the public says anything that implies that Sanskrit as a language is linked to a particular writing system, I emphatically state that it is a language, something spoken, and that any script can be used for it, and that the same is true for Pali. It is interesting, indeed, that Sanskrit and Pali are the only languagesthat come to mind that are used across a large area, with a sacral aspect although also used (in the case of Sanskrit) for many diverse secular purposes, which are not linked with a single script. How different from Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Chinese, Arabic, Persian, and Church Slavonic. It seems that with them the script enters into the sociolinguistic definition of the language in a way it doesn't in Sanskrit and Pali. Happy New Year to everyone. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM Tue Jan 5 14:59:36 2010 From: eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM (Dean Michael Anderson) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 06:59:36 -0800 Subject: kashyap as default gotra (ritual manual?) In-Reply-To: <685748.71851.qm@web23104.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088076.23782.13176603076530670592.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1486 Lines: 35 I don't have a textual reference but it is common in modern India that converts to Hinduism of European heritage are told to take Kashyapa as their gotra. I have seen them use it in rituals performed in very traditional contexts and it was accepted. Of course, many Hindus of Indian heritage also have Kashyapa as their gotra. Best, Dean Michael Anderson --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Benjamin Slade wrote: From: Benjamin Slade Subject: kashyap as default gotra (ritual manual?) To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:38 PM Some time ago, I came across a reference somewhere that in case of a person's gotra being unknown, for purposes of marriage etc., they should be assigned Kaashyapa gotra. I can't recall where I saw this reference and Google hasn't been of any help. So I was wondering if anyone could point me to the source(s?) for this custom. (Intriguingly the rsi Kashyapa seems to be connected with "conversion" of Mlecchas, e.g. in the Bhavishya Purana). ------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Slade -? http://www.jnanam.net/slade/ Dept. of Linguistics University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? St?fcr?ft & Vy?kara?a - http://staefcraeft.blogspot.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ? ???? ?????????? ?? ?????? ? ? 'The gods love the obscure.' (?atapathabr?ma?a 6.1.1.2) From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Tue Jan 5 07:45:37 2010 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 08:45:37 +0100 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: <20100104T171355Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227088070.23782.278903348682754369.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3638 Lines: 86 > > "Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North? ? propos "North": Devanagari was not used in Kashmir until it was established under Hindu (Dogra) rule (second half of the nineteenth century). Previously, Sanskrit was written exclusively in (Proto-)Sarada characters. The Pandits, being unaccustomed to it, adopted Nagari only hesitantly and not without reservation. See the reports of Buehler and Stein; also Witzel, Kashmiri Manuscripts and Pronunciation; Witzel, The Brahmins if Kashmir. Best, WS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen W Thrasher" To: Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 11:13 PM Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? > "Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North? Grantha belongs > to the South. A few other dedicated scripts eg., Nadinagari, were > developed in the Decaan. But none became popular in the nineteenth > century. Oriya has ever been as good for Oriya as for Sanskrit. So is > Devnagari for Hindi and Sanskrit, Count Bengali, Telugu and Malayalam and > Kannad too among others. And Gujarati, Newari, the Brahmi and post-Brahmi > script and others I miss. Similar to Latin, French, English,post-Kemal > Turkish and post-war German? A situation ripe for Lewis Carroll. > DB" > > I have always wondered if anyone has done a study of the progress of the > use of Devanagari for Sanskrit. Is it a result of the development of a > mass (pan-Indian, plus Western scholarly) market for printed Sanskrit? > After what date would a South Indian or Bengali pundit or purohit be more > likely than not to know Nagari in addition to his regional script? > > I have a vague memory that at some stage the Government of British India > decided it would not subsidize any Sanskrit publications that weren't in > Nagari, but can't for the life of me recall where I read or heard this. > Has anyone heard of anything of the sort? Are there counter-examples? > > Whenever a member of the public says anything that implies that Sanskrit > as a language is linked to a particular writing system, I emphatically > state that it is a language, something spoken, and that any script can be > used for it, and that the same is true for Pali. It is interesting, > indeed, that Sanskrit and Pali are the only languagesthat come to mind > that are used across a large area, with a sacral aspect although also used > (in the case of Sanskrit) for many diverse secular purposes, which are not > linked with a single script. How different from Greek, Latin, Hebrew, > Chinese, Arabic, Persian, and Church Slavonic. It seems that with them > the script enters into the sociolinguistic definition of the language in a > way it doesn't in Sanskrit and Pali. > > Happy New Year to everyone. > > Allen > > > Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. > Senior Reference Librarian > Team Coordinator > South Asia Team, Asian Division > Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 > 101 Independence Ave., S.E. > Washington, DC 20540-4810 > tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov > The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of > Congress. ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA Tue Jan 5 13:54:43 2010 From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 08:54:43 -0500 Subject: Rtuvarnana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088074.23782.16640472408562225846.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1762 Lines: 68 Dear colleagues, Belatedly, a few remarks about Rtu: nobody seems to have mentioned V. Raghavan's Rtu in Sanskrit literature, Delhi : Shri Lal Bahadur Shastri Kendriya Sanskrit Vidyapeetha, 1972. xviii, 196 p. -- Language and for comparison Charlotte Vaudeville's Barahmasa; les chansons des douze mois dans les litteratures indo- aryennes. Pondich?ry Institut fran?ais d'indologie 1965, 97p. Also, the RtusaMhAra continues to be attributed to KAlidAsa. I believe I have proven that this poem is not by KAlidAsa in my 2002 article "The RtusaMhAra. A new approach" published in Rivista degli Studi Orientali, No. 75,, fasc.I-IV, pp. 147-156. Happy New Year to all! Stella Sandahl Professor Stella Sandahl Department of East Asian Studies 130 St. George St. room 14087 Toronto, ON M5S 3H1 ssandahl at sympatico.ca stella.sandahl at utoronto.ca Tel. (416) 978-4295 Fax. (416) 978-5711 On 12-Dec-09, at 11:41 AM, Toke L. Knudsen wrote: > Dear Venetia, > > Inspired by K?lid?sa's ?tusa?h?ra, the Indian astronomers > also wrote poems describing the seasons. See Bh?skara II's > ?tuvar?ana (part of the Siddh?nta?iroma?i). J??nar?ja > gives a more elaborate poem on the seasons in the Siddh?ntasundara. > > All best wishes, > Toke > > > > On Dec 11, 2009, at 6:46 AM, venetia ansell wrote: > >> Could anyone direct me to interesting passages describing the >> seasons in >> Sanskrit poetry and any articles or books that have been written >> about >> 'rtu-varnana'? >> Thank you very much, >> Venetia > > ----- > Toke L. Knudsen, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor of Mathematics > Department of Mathematics, Computer Science, and Statistics > State University of New York, College at Oneonta > 108 Ravine Parkway > Oneonta, NY 13820 > USA From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Tue Jan 5 05:05:28 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 10:35:28 +0530 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: <20100104T171355Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227088065.23782.7993355977035927124.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4560 Lines: 49 'Whenever a member of the public says anything that implies that Sanskrit as a language is linked to a particular writing system' This is the layman's ie not so knowledgeable non-specialists' position in India. I did not know about any confusion in the West before the current correspondences started. But specialists I?ever met were very clear in their conception of the distinction between the script and the language. There might have been a bit of ?innocent over-statement by Allen. As for the acceptance of the Nagari script as the standard script for Sanskrit the names of Iswar Chandra Vidyasagar, the great nineteenth century reformer who fought for women's rights since the 1840s and published his editions in Devnagari, and that of Bhudev Mukhopadhyay who worked for the propagation of Hindi ?-- both were Bengali and stationed at Calcutta -- ?may be mentioned. As the matter stands the facts are recorded in Bengali. Sukumar Sen (Bharatkosh 4, 1970,?Bangiya Sahitya Parishat, Calcutta) does not speak of?any special movement for accepting the Nagai script for Sanskrit but emphasizes the currency of the practice as the standard one since the nineteenth century. The facts about Vidyasagar and Bhudev Mukhopadhyay will be found recorded in the relevant volumes of the Sahitya Sadhak Charitamala, Brajendranath Bandyopadhyay, Bangiya Sahitya Parishat. The earliest publications (Upanishads: Ram Mohan Roy, 1817) were in the Bengali script. In the sixties Satyavrata Samasrami brought out his edition of the Samaveda in Nagari. So did ?nandachandra Ved?ntavag??a for the L?ty?y?na-?rautas?tra (1870). A brief history may be found in a forthcoming volume (in English) on Bengal?s contribution to Vedic text-criticism, RBU, Kolkata. Maxmuller?s contribution (RV ed.) and that of the Asiatic Society count heavily. Enough I think. ??Thanks and best wishes DB ? --- On Tue, 5/1/10, Allen W Thrasher wrote: From: Allen W Thrasher Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 3:43 AM "Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North? Grantha belongs to the South. A few other dedicated scripts eg., Nadinagari, were developed in the Decaan. But none became popular in the nineteenth century. Oriya has ever been as good for Oriya as for Sanskrit. So is Devnagari for Hindi and Sanskrit, Count Bengali, Telugu and Malayalam and Kannad too among others. And Gujarati, Newari, the Brahmi and post-Brahmi script and others I miss.? Similar to Latin, French, English,post-Kemal Turkish and post-war German? A situation ripe for Lewis Carroll. DB" I have always wondered if anyone has done a study of the progress of the use of Devanagari for Sanskrit.? Is it a result of the development of a mass (pan-Indian, plus Western scholarly) market for printed Sanskrit?? After what date would a South Indian or Bengali pundit or purohit be more likely than not to know Nagari in addition to his regional script? I have a vague memory that at some stage the Government of British India decided it would not subsidize any Sanskrit publications that weren't in Nagari, but can't for the life of me recall where I read or heard this. Has anyone heard of anything of the sort? Are there counter-examples? Whenever a member of the public says anything that implies that Sanskrit as a language is linked to a particular writing system, I emphatically state that it is a language, something spoken, and that any script can be used for it, and that the same is true for Pali.? It is interesting, indeed, that Sanskrit and Pali are the only languagesthat come to mind that are used across a large area, with a sacral aspect although also used (in the case of Sanskrit) for many diverse secular purposes, which are not linked with a single script.? How different from Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Chinese, Arabic, Persian, and Church Slavonic.? It seems that with them the script enters into the sociolinguistic definition of the language in a way it doesn't in Sanskrit and Pali. Happy New Year to everyone. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Tue Jan 5 16:40:08 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 10:40:08 -0600 Subject: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: <84EE498FA7674F4DB97671A2987FDD62@SlajePC> Message-ID: <161227088086.23782.1904818177125716494.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 575 Lines: 18 Might not the adoption of Davanagari in Kashmir been due, at least in part, to the development of Sanskrit printing there? By the mid-19th c., Devanagari type fonts were in wide use, but I do not know of Sarada printing type at all. Surely technology and the distribution of printed texts played major roles in promoting Devanagari, not just in Kashmir, but in many places throughout the subcontinent. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Tue Jan 5 05:40:06 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 11:10:06 +0530 Subject: Fw: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? Message-ID: <161227088067.23782.5229802290936939736.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5065 Lines: 65 For the script, mentioning Maxmuller ignoring O.N.Bohtlingk (Ashtadhyayi, Bonn.ed 1839)?was an error on my part. I deeply regret DB --- On Tue, 5/1/10, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 10:35 AM 'Whenever a member of the public says anything that implies that Sanskrit as a language is linked to a particular writing system' This is the layman's ie not so knowledgeable non-specialists' position in India. I did not know about any confusion in the West before the current correspondences started. But specialists I?ever met were very clear in their conception of the distinction between the script and the language. There might have been a bit of ?innocent over-statement by Allen. As for the acceptance of the Nagari script as the standard script for Sanskrit the names of Iswar Chandra Vidyasagar, the great nineteenth century reformer who fought for women's rights since the 1840s and published his editions in Devnagari, and that of Bhudev Mukhopadhyay who worked for the propagation of Hindi ?-- both were Bengali and stationed at Calcutta -- ?may be mentioned. As the matter stands the facts are recorded in Bengali. Sukumar Sen (Bharatkosh 4, 1970,?Bangiya Sahitya Parishat, Calcutta) does not speak of?any special movement for accepting the Nagai script for Sanskrit but emphasizes the currency of the practice as the standard one since the nineteenth century. The facts about Vidyasagar and Bhudev Mukhopadhyay will be found recorded in the relevant volumes of the Sahitya Sadhak Charitamala, Brajendranath Bandyopadhyay, Bangiya Sahitya Parishat. The earliest publications (Upanishads: Ram Mohan Roy, 1817) were in the Bengali script. In the sixties Satyavrata Samasrami brought out his edition of the Samaveda in Nagari. So did ?nandachandra Ved?ntavag??a for the L?ty?y?na-?rautas?tra (1870). A brief history may be found in a forthcoming volume (in English) on Bengal?s contribution to Vedic text-criticism, RBU, Kolkata. Maxmuller?s contribution (RV ed.) and that of the Asiatic Society count heavily. Enough I think. ??Thanks and best wishes DB ? --- On Tue, 5/1/10, Allen W Thrasher wrote: From: Allen W Thrasher Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 3:43 AM "Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North? Grantha belongs to the South. A few other dedicated scripts eg., Nadinagari, were developed in the Decaan. But none became popular in the nineteenth century. Oriya has ever been as good for Oriya as for Sanskrit. So is Devnagari for Hindi and Sanskrit, Count Bengali, Telugu and Malayalam and Kannad too among others. And Gujarati, Newari, the Brahmi and post-Brahmi script and others I miss.? Similar to Latin, French, English,post-Kemal Turkish and post-war German? A situation ripe for Lewis Carroll. DB" I have always wondered if anyone has done a study of the progress of the use of Devanagari for Sanskrit.? Is it a result of the development of a mass (pan-Indian, plus Western scholarly) market for printed Sanskrit?? After what date would a South Indian or Bengali pundit or purohit be more likely than not to know Nagari in addition to his regional script? I have a vague memory that at some stage the Government of British India decided it would not subsidize any Sanskrit publications that weren't in Nagari, but can't for the life of me recall where I read or heard this. Has anyone heard of anything of the sort? Are there counter-examples? Whenever a member of the public says anything that implies that Sanskrit as a language is linked to a particular writing system, I emphatically state that it is a language, something spoken, and that any script can be used for it, and that the same is true for Pali.? It is interesting, indeed, that Sanskrit and Pali are the only languagesthat come to mind that are used across a large area, with a sacral aspect although also used (in the case of Sanskrit) for many diverse secular purposes, which are not linked with a single script.? How different from Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Chinese, Arabic, Persian, and Church Slavonic.? It seems that with them the script enters into the sociolinguistic definition of the language in a way it doesn't in Sanskrit and Pali. Happy New Year to everyone. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. ? ? ? The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From ingeardagum at YAHOO.CO.UK Tue Jan 5 13:08:03 2010 From: ingeardagum at YAHOO.CO.UK (Benjamin Slade) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 13:08:03 +0000 Subject: kashyap as default gotra (ritual manual?) Message-ID: <161227088072.23782.158110231440716575.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 889 Lines: 22 Some time ago, I came across a reference somewhere that in case of a person's gotra being unknown, for purposes of marriage etc., they should be assigned Kaashyapa gotra. I can't recall where I saw this reference and Google hasn't been of any help. So I was wondering if anyone could point me to the source(s?) for this custom. (Intriguingly the rsi Kashyapa seems to be connected with "conversion" of Mlecchas, e.g. in the Bhavishya Purana). ------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Slade - http://www.jnanam.net/slade/ Dept. of Linguistics University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign St?fcr?ft & Vy?kara?a - http://staefcraeft.blogspot.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ???? ?????????? ?? ?????? 'The gods love the obscure.' (?atapathabr?ma?a 6.1.1.2) From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Tue Jan 5 19:31:12 2010 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 13:31:12 -0600 Subject: Book In-Reply-To: <906264.35896.qm@web8603.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088093.23782.5307367997420394223.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 316 Lines: 16 Dear All: Since it appears now to be kosher to let everyone know about the publication on one's own book, here is my edition and translation of the Vaisnava Dharmasastra (aka Visnu-smriti) published in the Harvard Oriental Series (# 73). The Law Code of Visnu. ISBN 9780674051393 Thanks. Patrick Olivelle From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Jan 5 19:35:18 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 14:35:18 -0500 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? Message-ID: <161227088095.23782.1877771270610691060.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 880 Lines: 20 Re the Kashmir situation: In the 70s or 80s I purchased, new, biscriptal editions of the Gita and several other Sanskrit religious classics published in Kashmir in Nagari (from the 'front') and Perso-Arabic (from the 'back'). I donated them to LC but a quick search doesn't succeed in pulling them up. Also, we were once offered for sale a large collection of Munshi Nawal Kishor Press imprints, among which were Sanskrit classics in Perso-Arabic script; at least, I assume they were in Sanskrit rather than in Urdu translation. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Jan 5 19:36:17 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 14:36:17 -0500 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? Message-ID: <161227088097.23782.10028526785702893405.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1125 Lines: 21 Deepak said: "As for the acceptance of the Nagari script as the standard script for Sanskrit the names of Iswar Chandra Vidyasagar, the great nineteenth century reformer who fought for women's rights since the 1840s and published his editions in Devnagari, and that of Bhudev Mukhopadhyay who worked for the propagation of Hindi -- both were Bengali and stationed at Calcutta -- may be mentioned." The firm Isvaracandra Vidyasagara's Sons published a lot of classics in both Nagari and Bangla script. My institution has a lot of them. I don't have time right now to see whether the ones we have go back to the father's time. A search of WorldCat with the same question in mind would also be fruitful (though it is possible early cataloging did not specify the script). Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE Tue Jan 5 15:07:41 2010 From: zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE (Robert Zydenbos) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 16:07:41 +0100 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: <717412F37F00424092CFC3A8F5C94B6D@SlajePC> Message-ID: <161227088079.23782.8183168020830786344.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2740 Lines: 58 Op 05.01.10 08:45 schreef Walter Slaje: >> > "Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North? > > ? propos "North": Devanagari was not used in Kashmir until it was > established under Hindu (Dogra) rule (second half of the nineteenth > century). Previously, Sanskrit was written exclusively in > (Proto-)Sarada characters. The Pandits, being unaccustomed to it, > adopted Nagari only hesitantly and not without reservation. [...] The standardized use of Nagari for Sanskrit should be seen in the wider context of linguistic innovation in the nineteenth century. One significant detail is found in the valuable book by Suniti Kumar Chatterji, _Indo-Aryan & Hindi_. Calcutta: K.L. Mukhopadhyay, 1969 (repr.). The book consists of lectures given in Ahmedabad in 1940. Writing about the propagation of so-called 'High-Hindi', he says: "The great recommendation of High-Hindi (or N?gar?-Hindi) for its Hindu supporters lies in its N?gar? alphabet (which under British rule has become the accepted all-India script for Sanskrit: being used for the Deva-bh??? or 'the language of the Gods', it acquired in recent times the honoured name Deva-n?gar?, and this added to its prestige, a good many people imagining that it was the Original Alphabet of Sanskrit): in other words, because it reflects in two vital matters - script and vocabulary - the Language of the Gods - the Deva-bh??? - as we use it in India now." (p. 165) I dimly recall (perhaps this too is found somewhere in this book) that the British decided to use Nagari as the standard script for Sanskrit after the founding of the universities in Calcutta, Madras and Bombay, so that graduates from those three institutions needed to master only one script to read whatever was printed in those three universities; Grantha script was too complex, and Bengali script was elegant but not so easy to learn as the more clunky Nagari that was used in the Bombay area. (The universities were founded in 1857, so that fits the present discussion excellently.) I suspect that Grierson's _Linguistic Survey of India_ will provide more information. South India confirms that Sanskrit was (and still is, to a large extent) written in whatever script is being used for the modern language in the region. As for the matter of "Hindi script" (cf. Dipak Bhattacharya, Jan. 1), see Christopher King's book _One Language, Two Scripts_ (Oxford University Press, 1999), about the largely artificial breaking away of 'Hindi' from Urdu. -- Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Department fuer Asienstudien - Institut fuer Indologie und Tibetologie Universitaet Muenchen Germany Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827 http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~zydenbos From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Jan 5 22:03:29 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 17:03:29 -0500 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? Message-ID: <161227088106.23782.3880921716416686539.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1697 Lines: 23 "Possibly, although it is always somewhat difficult to guess intentions of Sanskritists - if I may have this little joke. Judging from harder facts, i.e. from concomitant religious and politicial changes, the Dogras re-established Hindu rule in Kashmir only after c. 500 years of Muslim and c. 30 years of Sikh rule. It is likely that in its wake also the influx of Hindu texts from India proper written in Devanagari increased considerably, from which a local shaping, known as "Kashmir Devanagari", developed." The Valley was transferred to Gulab Singh in 1846, when the printing of Sanskrit was already underway in British India. One would presume (??) that this made it significantly less expensive of money or effort to acquire books than before. But to read those published in the north of British India one would have to know the Nagari or Bengali script. Does anyone know if the habit of spending the winter in the plains or in Jammu was already established before the Dogra Raj? Pandit friends of mine tell me their families used to go down to Jammu in the winter, and I gather the maharaja and muc of the government moved. If many of the Pandits went to Jammu or someplace else to the south of the mountains in the winter, they might have had more opportunities to encounter Nagari than if they stayed in the Valley the year round. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Tue Jan 5 16:34:18 2010 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 17:34:18 +0100 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: <4B4355BD.8070606@uni-muenchen.de> Message-ID: <161227088083.23782.973188588866186746.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1730 Lines: 44 > The standardized use of Nagari for Sanskrit should be seen in the wider > context of linguistic innovation in the nineteenth century. [...] > "The great recommendation of High-Hindi (or N?gar?-Hindi) for its Hindu > supporters lies in its N?gar? alphabet (which under British rule has > become the accepted all-India script for Sanskrit: being used for the > Deva-bh??? or 'the language of the Gods', it acquired in recent times the > honoured name Deva-n?gar?, and this added to its prestige, [...] This may be true in general, but I find it difficult to apply the above criteria to Kashmir. First, the name of the Sharada script refers already to a deity, namely to Sharada or Sarasvati Devi, the goddess of learning and eloquence. Why exchange a prestigious name and the script it designates for another, such as Deva-Nagari? Second, Kashmir was never under British rule, and third, Hindi played no role there at all and can therefore not be seen in the context of a linguistic innovation. The manuscripts in old Kashmiri I am aware of are written in Sharada. Modern Kashmiri is commonly written in the Urdu script - as a successor to the Persian characters in use for Persian texts in late medieval times, but significantly enough not in Devanagari. Regards, WS ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Tue Jan 5 17:24:11 2010 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 18:24:11 +0100 Subject: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: <20100105104008.CHQ61034@m4500-02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227088091.23782.15104049870271429662.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1217 Lines: 26 As for the former Princely State of Travancore, according to the testimony of the "Brief resume of the working of the department for the publication of oriental manuscripts" (Trivandrum, 1934), p. 1: "Printing in Devanagari characters was not prevalent in Travancore four decades ago (...) His Highness Sri Mulam Tirunal, the late Maharaja, for the first time commanded the getting down of Nagari types for the Government Press. In doing so, His Highness's intention was to publish the manuscripts (Granthas) in the Granthappura (Library) in the Palace. At any rate, the introduction of printing in Devanagari was conducive to the development of general culture. It was first decided to print the Bhakti Manjari, (...) composition of His Most Gracious Highness Svati Tirunal (...)" This was done in 1903. The work came out in 1904 from the Government Press (not numbered in the Trivandrum Sanskrit Series, of which the first volume was published in 1905). However, printing and publishing of Sanskrit works in Malayalam script never ceased in Kerala until today. Christophe Vielle institut orientaliste de Louvain -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.lalibreblogs.be From wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK Tue Jan 5 19:39:30 2010 From: wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK (Whitney Cox) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 19:39:30 +0000 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: <572203.42739.qm@web8605.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088099.23782.7762482701474589238.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5808 Lines: 101 In response to the particular detail of Prof. Bhattacharya's reference to Mahe"svaraananda's Mahaarthama~njarii, I argued in my (unpublished) PhD dissertation that the lost archetype for all of the Sarada and Kashmirian Nagari MSS of the text was written in Grantha or perhaps in the Aryalipi of Kerala. Despite the fact that the numerical majority of the manuscripts of the text are from Kashmir, the work was composed in the South, and the northern (i.e. Kashmirian) recension is an inferior and heavily edited version of the text. I would be happy to provide details of my argument to anyone who might be interested, Best, Whitney 2010/1/5 Dipak Bhattacharya : > Where written literary activity is carried on in a single language the script may appear to be dedicated. ?But that is dedication by default and does prove a case. By the time local languages gained prominence in Kashmir Islam and the Arabic script had largely replaced the erstwhile culture. So Sarada could not be so widely used for Kashmiri as, say, ?the Bengali, Oriya or Kannad script for the native language of the region of its prevalence.? The litmus state is if the apparently 'dedicated' script is used when occasion rises to compose in ?a different language. Sarada, perhaps, fails in this test. ?See the Maharthamanjari. The Prakrit version is followed by the Sanskrit. Were not they both written in Sarada? Somebody should be able to tell. The edition I have at hand gives no information about the manuscript. > I also wonder if Somadeva or Kshemendra had read the Baddakaha in a script different from proto-Sarada. > Best for all > DB > > --- On Tue, 5/1/10, Walter Slaje wrote: > > > From: Walter Slaje > Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 1:15 PM > > >> > "Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North? > > ? propos "North": Devanagari was not used in Kashmir until it was established under Hindu (Dogra) rule (second half of the nineteenth century). Previously, Sanskrit was written exclusively in (Proto-)Sarada characters. The Pandits, being unaccustomed to it, adopted Nagari only hesitantly and not without reservation. > See the reports of Buehler and Stein; > also Witzel, Kashmiri Manuscripts and Pronunciation; Witzel, The Brahmins if Kashmir. > > Best, > WS > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen W Thrasher" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 11:13 PM > Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? > > >> "Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North? Grantha belongs to the South. A few other dedicated scripts eg., Nadinagari, were developed in the Decaan. But none became popular in the nineteenth century. Oriya has ever been as good for Oriya as for Sanskrit. So is Devnagari for Hindi and Sanskrit, Count Bengali, Telugu and Malayalam and Kannad too among others. And Gujarati, Newari, the Brahmi and post-Brahmi script and others I miss.? Similar to Latin, French, English,post-Kemal Turkish and post-war German? A situation ripe for Lewis Carroll. >> DB" >> >> I have always wondered if anyone has done a study of the progress of the use of Devanagari for Sanskrit.? Is it a result of the development of a mass (pan-Indian, plus Western scholarly) market for printed Sanskrit? After what date would a South Indian or Bengali pundit or purohit be more likely than not to know Nagari in addition to his regional script? >> >> I have a vague memory that at some stage the Government of British India decided it would not subsidize any Sanskrit publications that weren't in Nagari, but can't for the life of me recall where I read or heard this. Has anyone heard of anything of the sort? Are there counter-examples? >> >> Whenever a member of the public says anything that implies that Sanskrit as a language is linked to a particular writing system, I emphatically state that it is a language, something spoken, and that any script can be used for it, and that the same is true for Pali.? It is interesting, indeed, that Sanskrit and Pali are the only languagesthat come to mind that are used across a large area, with a sacral aspect although also used (in the case of Sanskrit) for many diverse secular purposes, which are not linked with a single script.? How different from Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Chinese, Arabic, Persian, and Church Slavonic.? It seems that with them the script enters into the sociolinguistic definition of the language in a way it doesn't in Sanskrit and Pali. >> >> Happy New Year to everyone. >> >> Allen >> >> >> Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. >> Senior Reference Librarian >> Team Coordinator >> South Asia Team, Asian Division >> Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 >> 101 Independence Ave., S.E. >> Washington, DC 20540-4810 >> tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov >> The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. > > ------------------------------ > Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje > Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 > D-99425 Weimar > (Germany) > www.indologie.uni-halle.de > > Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor > studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum > non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, > sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus > humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. > Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. > > > ? ? ?The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ > -- Dr. Whitney Cox Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, School of Oriental and African Studies Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square London WC1H 0XG From zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE Tue Jan 5 20:26:17 2010 From: zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE (Robert Zydenbos) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 21:26:17 +0100 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: <84EE498FA7674F4DB97671A2987FDD62@SlajePC> Message-ID: <161227088102.23782.9959327726332663412.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2625 Lines: 64 Op 05.01.10 17:34 schreef Walter Slaje: >> The standardized use of Nagari for Sanskrit should be seen in the >> wider context of linguistic innovation in the nineteenth century. > [...] > > This may be true in general, but I find it difficult to apply the > above criteria to Kashmir. > [...] > Second, Kashmir was never under British rule, > and third, Hindi played no role there at all and can therefore not be > seen in the context of a linguistic innovation. > > The manuscripts in old Kashmiri I am aware of are written in Sharada. > Modern Kashmiri is commonly written in the Urdu script - as a > successor to the Persian characters in use for Persian texts in late > medieval times, but significantly enough not in Devanagari. I think a misunderstanding has crept in. I quoted Chatterji's book about Hindi merely for his argument how Hindi in Nagari script was popularized: namely, (a) that N?gar? had already popularly been associated with 'devabh???', i.e., Sanskrit, and (b) that this was an innovation during British rule. (The spread or non-spread of Hindi is not relevant here - the spread of Nagari is.) Actually, what you mentioned in your earlier message ("Devanagari was not used in Kashmir until it was established under Hindu (Dogra) rule (second half of the nineteenth century)") only supports my assumption for the whole of India: [before the 19th c.: diversity] Skt. in many scripts (e.g., in Sarada script in Kashmir, used for Kashmiri) --> [latter half of 19th c.: uniformity] Skt. in Nagari (a previously unknown and unused script, an innovation that was introduced from outside) The interesting question is: why did the situation under Dogra rule change? My guess is that the Sanskritists of Kashmir simply wanted to join the newly established convention in British India, because they recognized its usefulness. Meanwhile, to end on a more scurrilous note: the myth that Nagari is 'Sanskrit script' seems thoroughly entrenched now. In Karnataka I knew three brothers in a brahmin family: the youngest was modern and signed his name in 'English script' (??gla lipi); the middle one was more conservative and signed his in Kannada script; the eldest and most orthodox thought that as a brahmin, he ought to sign his in 'Sanskrit script' - Nagari. I probably need not add that the eldest brother was not a great Sanskrit scholar. Regards, RZ -- Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Department fuer Asienstudien - Institut fuer Indologie und Tibetologie Universitaet Muenchen Germany Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827 http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~zydenbos From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Tue Jan 5 16:08:32 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 21:38:32 +0530 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: <717412F37F00424092CFC3A8F5C94B6D@SlajePC> Message-ID: <161227088081.23782.4532852867257447208.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4842 Lines: 72 Where written literary activity is carried on in a single language the script may appear to be dedicated. ?But that is dedication by default and does prove a case. By the time local languages gained prominence in Kashmir Islam and the Arabic script had largely replaced the erstwhile culture. So Sarada could not be so widely used for Kashmiri as, say, ?the Bengali, Oriya or Kannad script for the native language of the region of its prevalence.? The litmus state is if the apparently 'dedicated' script is used when occasion rises to compose in ?a different language. Sarada, perhaps, fails in this test. ?See the Maharthamanjari. The Prakrit version is followed by the Sanskrit. Were not they both written in Sarada? Somebody should be able to tell. The edition I have at hand gives no information about the manuscript. I also wonder if Somadeva or Kshemendra had read the Baddakaha in a script different from proto-Sarada. Best for all DB --- On Tue, 5/1/10, Walter Slaje wrote: From: Walter Slaje Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 1:15 PM > > "Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North? ? propos "North": Devanagari was not used in Kashmir until it was established under Hindu (Dogra) rule (second half of the nineteenth century). Previously, Sanskrit was written exclusively in (Proto-)Sarada characters. The Pandits, being unaccustomed to it, adopted Nagari only hesitantly and not without reservation. See the reports of Buehler and Stein; also Witzel, Kashmiri Manuscripts and Pronunciation; Witzel, The Brahmins if Kashmir. Best, WS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen W Thrasher" To: Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 11:13 PM Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? > "Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North? Grantha belongs to the South. A few other dedicated scripts eg., Nadinagari, were developed in the Decaan. But none became popular in the nineteenth century. Oriya has ever been as good for Oriya as for Sanskrit. So is Devnagari for Hindi and Sanskrit, Count Bengali, Telugu and Malayalam and Kannad too among others. And Gujarati, Newari, the Brahmi and post-Brahmi script and others I miss.? Similar to Latin, French, English,post-Kemal Turkish and post-war German? A situation ripe for Lewis Carroll. > DB" > > I have always wondered if anyone has done a study of the progress of the use of Devanagari for Sanskrit.? Is it a result of the development of a mass (pan-Indian, plus Western scholarly) market for printed Sanskrit? After what date would a South Indian or Bengali pundit or purohit be more likely than not to know Nagari in addition to his regional script? > > I have a vague memory that at some stage the Government of British India decided it would not subsidize any Sanskrit publications that weren't in Nagari, but can't for the life of me recall where I read or heard this. Has anyone heard of anything of the sort? Are there counter-examples? > > Whenever a member of the public says anything that implies that Sanskrit as a language is linked to a particular writing system, I emphatically state that it is a language, something spoken, and that any script can be used for it, and that the same is true for Pali.? It is interesting, indeed, that Sanskrit and Pali are the only languagesthat come to mind that are used across a large area, with a sacral aspect although also used (in the case of Sanskrit) for many diverse secular purposes, which are not linked with a single script.? How different from Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Chinese, Arabic, Persian, and Church Slavonic.? It seems that with them the script enters into the sociolinguistic definition of the language in a way it doesn't in Sanskrit and Pali. > > Happy New Year to everyone. > > Allen > > > Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. > Senior Reference Librarian > Team Coordinator > South Asia Team, Asian Division > Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 > 101 Independence Ave., S.E. > Washington, DC 20540-4810 > tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov > The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Tue Jan 5 21:29:06 2010 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 22:29:06 +0100 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: <4B43A069.4020606@uni-muenchen.de> Message-ID: <161227088104.23782.9470694204762324943.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1220 Lines: 34 > The interesting question is: why did the situation under Dogra rule > change? My guess is that the Sanskritists of Kashmir simply wanted to join > the newly established convention in British India, because they recognized > its usefulness. Possibly, although it is always somewhat difficult to guess intentions of Sanskritists - if I may have this little joke. Judging from harder facts, i.e. from concomitant religious and politicial changes, the Dogras re-established Hindu rule in Kashmir only after c. 500 years of Muslim and c. 30 years of Sikh rule. It is likely that in its wake also the influx of Hindu texts from India proper written in Devanagari increased considerably, from which a local shaping, known as "Kashmir Devanagari", developed. Best, WS ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Tue Jan 5 17:05:24 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 22:35:24 +0530 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: <84EE498FA7674F4DB97671A2987FDD62@SlajePC> Message-ID: <161227088088.23782.10899210948885200447.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3404 Lines: 51 The discussion has digressed. None should object to that but the old point comes back in a wrong context. Was there any script valid for North India, like Grantha for a large part of the South that would not be used for any other language and thus could be called a Sanskrit script? Since by the correspondent's own admission?'The manuscripts in old Kashmiri I am aware of are written in Sharada' Sarada does not pass this test. Also see my previous submission. My objection was against distinguishing between a Hindi and a Sanskrit script. Dedicated script itself does not fit into the Indian situation well. One can write Tamil in Bengali with minimum innovations and Bengali in Kannad without innovation but some orthographic rules. The unique situation in India to which I desired to draw notice seems to have been?taken note of?by many in this forum.?Most of India's?regional scripts have ever been valid for the regional language as well as for Sanskrit. But is not the situation the same with the present form of the 'Latin'- script? Originally ?meant for Latin it is now used for all West European languages, Turkish, Bahasa Indonesia and many others. At present so but since, unlike Latin,?Brahmi changed from century to century a unique situation arose in India in the past. Many thanks to everybody for a lively discussion. Best wishes DB ? -- On Tue, 5/1/10, script. Walter Slaje wrote: From: Walter Slaje Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 10:04 PM > The standardized use of Nagari for Sanskrit should be seen in the wider context of linguistic innovation in the nineteenth century. [...] > "The great recommendation of High-Hindi (or N?gar?-Hindi) for its Hindu supporters lies in its N?gar? alphabet (which under British rule has become the accepted all-India script for Sanskrit: being used for the Deva-bh??? or 'the language of the Gods', it acquired in recent times the honoured name Deva-n?gar?, and this added to its prestige, [...] This may be true in general, but I find it difficult to apply the above criteria to Kashmir. First, the name of the Sharada script refers already to a deity, namely to Sharada or Sarasvati Devi, the goddess of learning and eloquence. Why exchange a prestigious name and the script it designates for another, such as Deva-Nagari? Second, Kashmir was never under British rule, and third, Hindi played no role there at all and can therefore not be seen in the context of a linguistic innovation. The manuscripts in old Kashmiri I am aware of are written in Sharada. Modern Kashmiri is commonly written in the Urdu script - as a successor to the Persian characters in use for Persian texts in late medieval times, but significantly enough not in Devanagari. Regards, WS ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From jemhouben at GMAIL.COM Tue Jan 5 23:40:44 2010 From: jemhouben at GMAIL.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 10 00:40:44 +0100 Subject: publication: Le nom propre en Inde Message-ID: <161227088113.23782.10362235580444802983.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 319 Lines: 10 author: Emilie Aussant title: Le nom propre en Inde : Consid?rations sur le m?canisme r?f?rentiel Lyon: ENS ?ditions Briefly stated the author investigates "proper names" according to authors in vyaakara.na, nyaaya and miimaansaa (from Patanjali to Nagesa): do they, and if so how do they, denote and/or connotate? From jemhouben at GMAIL.COM Tue Jan 5 23:49:11 2010 From: jemhouben at GMAIL.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 10 00:49:11 +0100 Subject: recent publication: nyaaya suutra and nyaaya bhaa.sya translated and annotated Message-ID: <161227088116.23782.3643626727259380540.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 580 Lines: 15 author/translator: Michel Angot title: Le Nyaaya-Suutra de Gautama Ak.sapaada -- Le Nyaaya-Bhaa.sya d'Ak.sapaada Pak.silasvaamin : L'Art de Conduire la Pens?e en Inde Ancienne. Edition, Traduction et Pr?sentation. Paris: Les Belles Lettres. with an introductory study of 242 pages, text-translation-notes on pp. 243-807, appendices 809-883. the introduction deals with: A vocabulary and method; B the art of debate; C the NyaayaS seen by its commentator; D logic, rationality, rationalities; E medicine and dialectics: extracts from the Vimaanasthaana of the Caraka Samhitaa. From ingeardagum at YAHOO.CO.UK Wed Jan 6 14:32:23 2010 From: ingeardagum at YAHOO.CO.UK (Benjamin Slade) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 10 06:32:23 -0800 Subject: kashyap as default gotra (ritual manual?) In-Reply-To: <999941.81067.qm@web62407.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088128.23782.10402320363444939544.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3144 Lines: 72 Dean Michael Anderson said: > I don't have a textual reference but it is common in modern India that converts to Hinduism of European heritage are told to take Kashyapa as their gotra. I have seen them use it in > rituals performed in very traditional contexts and it was accepted.> Of course, many Hindus of Indian heritage also have Kashyapa as their gotra. Yes, Kashyapa seems to be the gotra taken by European-heritage Hindus, but this seems to be a specific instance of a more general rule rather than a recently-devised practice specifically for handling European converts. As I recall, Kashyapa is the gotra used if the father's gotra is unknown (which obviously could apply in variety of circumstances). And assignment of a gotra to converts from Islam would have been important in earlier times as well. I'm still curious though about the textual attestations of/justifications for this practice, if anyone has any further information. best, ------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Slade Dept. of Linguistics University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign [ http://www.jnanam.net/slade/ ] St?fcr?ft & Vy?kara?a (lingblog) - http://staefcraeft.blogspot.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ???? ?????????? ?? ?????? 'The gods love the obscure.' (?atapathabr?ma?a 6.1.1.2) ________________________________ From: Dean Michael Anderson To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Tue, 5 January, 2010 8:59:36 Subject: Re: kashyap as default gotra (ritual manual?) I don't have a textual reference but it is common in modern India that converts to Hinduism of European heritage are told to take Kashyapa as their gotra. I have seen them use it in rituals performed in very traditional contexts and it was accepted. Of course, many Hindus of Indian heritage also have Kashyapa as their gotra. Best, Dean Michael Anderson --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Benjamin Slade wrote: From: Benjamin Slade Subject: kashyap as default gotra (ritual manual?) To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:38 PM Some time ago, I came across a reference somewhere that in case of a person's gotra being unknown, for purposes of marriage etc., they should be assigned Kaashyapa gotra. I can't recall where I saw this reference and Google hasn't been of any help. So I was wondering if anyone could point me to the source(s?) for this custom. (Intriguingly the rsi Kashyapa seems to be connected with "conversion" of Mlecchas, e.g. in the Bhavishya Purana). ------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Slade - http://www.jnanam.net/slade/ Dept. of Linguistics University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign St?fcr?ft & Vy?kara?a - http://staefcraeft.blogspot.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ???? ?????????? ?? ?????? 'The gods love the obscure.' (?atapathabr?ma?a 6.1.1.2) From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Wed Jan 6 07:53:10 2010 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 10 08:53:10 +0100 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: <4B4370E10200003A00072A61@ntgwgate.loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227088123.23782.15602929211785045842.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1403 Lines: 38 Allen, > But to read those published in the north of British India one would have > to know the Nagari or Bengali script. There are plenty of Kashmirian mss of that time, which were copied from Nagari mss or demonstrably transcribed from Sharada exemplars, although Sharada did not entirely fall into desuetude. Occasionally, Nagari mss were even copied from printed books, which strengthens your point. In any case we must however assume a general turn in writing towards Nagari irrespective of book printing. > Does anyone know if the habit of spending the winter in the plains or in > Jammu was already established before the Dogra Raj? The most detailed accounts of Ranjit Singh's (Sikh) rule predating the Dogras I am aware of are the voluminous contemporary travel reports by William Moorcroft, Johann Martin Honigberger, Baron von Huegel, and Godfrey Thomas Vigne. They are likely to provide useful information in this regard. Walter ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Wed Jan 6 05:50:46 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 10 11:20:46 +0530 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: <76c1007b1001051139t27f2979dse47fb04b17de719@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227088118.23782.1292418756355331457.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6773 Lines: 119 Thanks with my best wishes for a happy new year! I am interested and shall be happy to read your arguments. My idea was that the Pratyabhijnaa had travelled to the South from Kashmir. I expressed my view in black and white (published) in the 70s but could not further elabporate because of other occupations. I still believe in it and in Abhinavagupta's originality in Introducing the theology/philosophy. But I shall read your arguments tho I do not have time to go for publishing my views in near future. My Maharthamanjari was heavily damaged during shift to my present house. Could you inform where I can get a copy? Sincerely DB --- On Wed, 6/1/10, Whitney Cox wrote: From: Whitney Cox Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 6 January, 2010, 1:09 AM In response to the particular detail of Prof. Bhattacharya's reference to Mahe"svaraananda's Mahaarthama~njarii, I argued in my (unpublished) PhD dissertation that the lost archetype for all of the Sarada and Kashmirian Nagari MSS of the text was written in Grantha or perhaps in the Aryalipi of Kerala.? Despite the fact that the numerical majority of the manuscripts of the text are from Kashmir, the work was composed in the South, and the northern (i.e. Kashmirian) recension is an inferior and heavily edited version of the text. I would be happy to provide details of my argument to anyone who might be interested, Best, Whitney 2010/1/5 Dipak Bhattacharya : > Where written literary activity is carried on in a single language the script may appear to be dedicated. ?But that is dedication by default and does prove a case. By the time local languages gained prominence in Kashmir Islam and the Arabic script had largely replaced the erstwhile culture. So Sarada could not be so widely used for Kashmiri as, say, ?the Bengali, Oriya or Kannad script for the native language of the region of its prevalence.? The litmus state is if the apparently 'dedicated' script is used when occasion rises to compose in ?a different language. Sarada, perhaps, fails in this test. ?See the Maharthamanjari. The Prakrit version is followed by the Sanskrit. Were not they both written in Sarada? Somebody should be able to tell. The edition I have at hand gives no information about the manuscript. > I also wonder if Somadeva or Kshemendra had read the Baddakaha in a script different from proto-Sarada. > Best for all > DB > > --- On Tue, 5/1/10, Walter Slaje wrote: > > > From: Walter Slaje > Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 1:15 PM > > >> > "Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North? > > ? propos "North": Devanagari was not used in Kashmir until it was established under Hindu (Dogra) rule (second half of the nineteenth century). Previously, Sanskrit was written exclusively in (Proto-)Sarada characters. The Pandits, being unaccustomed to it, adopted Nagari only hesitantly and not without reservation. > See the reports of Buehler and Stein; > also Witzel, Kashmiri Manuscripts and Pronunciation; Witzel, The Brahmins if Kashmir. > > Best, > WS > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen W Thrasher" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 11:13 PM > Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? > > >> "Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North? Grantha belongs to the South. A few other dedicated scripts eg., Nadinagari, were developed in the Decaan. But none became popular in the nineteenth century. Oriya has ever been as good for Oriya as for Sanskrit. So is Devnagari for Hindi and Sanskrit, Count Bengali, Telugu and Malayalam and Kannad too among others. And Gujarati, Newari, the Brahmi and post-Brahmi script and others I miss.? Similar to Latin, French, English,post-Kemal Turkish and post-war German? A situation ripe for Lewis Carroll. >> DB" >> >> I have always wondered if anyone has done a study of the progress of the use of Devanagari for Sanskrit.? Is it a result of the development of a mass (pan-Indian, plus Western scholarly) market for printed Sanskrit? After what date would a South Indian or Bengali pundit or purohit be more likely than not to know Nagari in addition to his regional script? >> >> I have a vague memory that at some stage the Government of British India decided it would not subsidize any Sanskrit publications that weren't in Nagari, but can't for the life of me recall where I read or heard this. Has anyone heard of anything of the sort? Are there counter-examples? >> >> Whenever a member of the public says anything that implies that Sanskrit as a language is linked to a particular writing system, I emphatically state that it is a language, something spoken, and that any script can be used for it, and that the same is true for Pali.? It is interesting, indeed, that Sanskrit and Pali are the only languagesthat come to mind that are used across a large area, with a sacral aspect although also used (in the case of Sanskrit) for many diverse secular purposes, which are not linked with a single script.? How different from Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Chinese, Arabic, Persian, and Church Slavonic.? It seems that with them the script enters into the sociolinguistic definition of the language in a way it doesn't in Sanskrit and Pali. >> >> Happy New Year to everyone. >> >> Allen >> >> >> Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. >> Senior Reference Librarian >> Team Coordinator >> South Asia Team, Asian Division >> Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 >> 101 Independence Ave., S.E. >> Washington, DC 20540-4810 >> tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov >> The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. > > ------------------------------ > Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje > Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 > D-99425 Weimar > (Germany) > www.indologie.uni-halle.de > > Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor > studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum > non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, > sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus > humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. > Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. > > > ? ? ?The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ > -- Dr. Whitney Cox Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, School of Oriental and African Studies Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square London WC1H 0XG The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Wed Jan 6 06:19:44 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 10 11:49:44 +0530 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: <4B4370E10200003A00072A61@ntgwgate.loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227088120.23782.8956653046910955743.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2524 Lines: 42 ? In?earlier times leaving the valley meant excommunication. A ceremony was held?in honour of the 'departed'. A trip outside?was not a normal thing. Those who made did not return. At present there is no trace of the practice and knowledgeable Pandits,?those who live outside and those in Kashmir, never think of the return of those old days and custoims. DB ? . --- On Wed, 6/1/10, Allen W Thrasher wrote: From: Allen W Thrasher Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 6 January, 2010, 3:33 AM "Possibly, although it is always somewhat difficult to guess intentions of Sanskritists - if I may have this little joke. Judging from harder facts, i.e. from concomitant religious and politicial changes, the Dogras re-established Hindu rule in Kashmir only after c. 500 years of Muslim and c. 30 years of Sikh rule. It is likely that in its wake also the influx of Hindu texts from India proper written in Devanagari increased considerably, from which a local shaping, known as "Kashmir Devanagari", developed." The Valley was transferred to Gulab Singh in 1846, when the printing of Sanskrit was already underway in British India.? One would presume (??) that this made it significantly less expensive of money or effort to acquire books than before.? But to read those published in the north of British India one would have to know the Nagari or Bengali script. Does anyone know if the habit of spending the winter in the plains or in Jammu was already established before the Dogra Raj?? Pandit friends of mine tell me their families used to go down to Jammu in the winter, and I gather the maharaja and muc of the government moved.? If many of the Pandits went to Jammu or someplace else to the south of the mountains in the winter, they might have had more opportunities to encounter Nagari than if they stayed in the Valley the year round. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From 171318 at SOAS.AC.UK Wed Jan 6 14:37:15 2010 From: 171318 at SOAS.AC.UK (LEON Goldman) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 10 14:37:15 +0000 Subject: Strewing barhis- in a line? Message-ID: <161227088130.23782.8270911354092723717.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 496 Lines: 13 Dear List Members, Are there any examples of Vedic rituals in which the *barhis-* (or portion thereof) is to be strewn in a line, perhaps along a North/South or East/West axis? I'm searching (perhaps in vain) for possible parallels to a Zoroastrian ritual in which one-third of the *baresman-* is required to be spread along (or possibly against) the path of the sun. Any suggestions would be most warmly received. With thanks, Leon Goldman (PhD candidate, SOAS). From dolenev at GMAIL.COM Wed Jan 6 13:09:31 2010 From: dolenev at GMAIL.COM (Dmitry Olenev) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 10 15:09:31 +0200 Subject: Book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088125.23782.2190264306277713386.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 466 Lines: 23 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Patrick Olivelle Date: 2010/1/5 Subject: Book To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Dear All: Since it appears now to be kosher to let everyone know about the publication on one's own book, here is my edition and translation of the Vaisnava Dharmasastra (aka Visnu-smriti) published in the Harvard Oriental Series (# 73). The Law Code of Visnu. ISBN 9780674051393 Thanks. Patrick Olivelle From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Jan 6 20:14:41 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 10 15:14:41 -0500 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: <455378.39614.qm@web8606.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088132.23782.17716715783083774011.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1330 Lines: 22 " In earlier times leaving the valley meant excommunication. A ceremony was held in honour of the 'departed'. A trip outside was not a normal thing. Those who made did not return. At present there is no trace of the practice and knowledgeable Pandits, those who live outside and those in Kashmir, never think of the return of those old days and custoims. DB" Thanks for this extraordinary fact. I don't recall hearing of the brahmins of any other part of the subcontinent regarding migration as a cause for excommunication. My Pandit friends (baby boomers) had ancestors in the Maharaja's administration. They told me that when one was posted to the western parts of the kingdom, which are now in Azad Kashmir, their families would say goodbye to them as to someone going off to their death. But they said nothing about punishment, just about danger. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Jan 6 20:15:43 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 10 15:15:43 -0500 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: <4407FF83733745CEB2AA3A59758AD984@SlajePC> Message-ID: <161227088135.23782.7160141034307429543.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 339 Lines: 12 "The most detailed accounts of Ranjit Singh's (Sikh) rule predating the Dogras I am aware of are the voluminous contemporary travel reports by William Moorcroft, Johann Martin Honigberger, Baron von Huegel, and Godfrey Thomas Vigne. They are likely to provide useful information in this regard." Thanks for the tip, Walter. Allen From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Thu Jan 7 06:26:16 2010 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 10 22:26:16 -0800 Subject: kashyap as default gotra (ritual manual?) In-Reply-To: <25063_1262788350_1262788350_297043.65619.qm@web23108.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088137.23782.1109171619398019889.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 347 Lines: 13 On 10-01-06 6:32 AM, "Benjamin Slade" wrote: >... Kashyapa ... gotra ... the textual attestations of/justifications for > this practice See Kane, P.V. History of Dharmasastra, 1941, vol. Ii, part I, p. 495 and 497. If you do not have access to this work, I will copy the relevant lines for you. ashok aklujkar From ersand at HUM.KU.DK Thu Jan 7 07:49:28 2010 From: ersand at HUM.KU.DK (Erik Reenberg Sand) Date: Thu, 07 Jan 10 08:49:28 +0100 Subject: Contact for M.L. Manjul? Message-ID: <161227088139.23782.1029985517936701844.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 379 Lines: 47 Dear list members, Can anyone give me the email address of Mr. V. L. Manjul, former head librarian of the Bhanadarkar Oriental Institute? Regards Erik Reenberg Sand Erik Reenberg Sand History of Religions Section Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Artillerivej 86 DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark From athr at LOC.GOV Thu Jan 7 14:30:57 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Thu, 07 Jan 10 09:30:57 -0500 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? Message-ID: <161227088144.23782.17228968568651887599.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2310 Lines: 42 What would happen if the person unexpectedly returned? Was his property distributed to the usual heirs after the quasi-memorial service, or after a certain period of time? Was it anything like the social and legal situation of someone who took sannyasa and then came back wanting to get his property and wife back - i.e. that's out because you're really dead? Allen >>> Dipak Bhattacharya 1/7/2010 6:08:15 AM >>> I should not be misunderstood. No punishment was meant. It was just giving up one. Note the ceremony in honour of the departed. Perhaps ignorance of "devilish" outside world could be at work. --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Allen W Thrasher wrote: From: Allen W Thrasher Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Thursday, 7 January, 2010, 1:44 AM " In earlier times leaving the valley meant excommunication. A ceremony was held in honour of the 'departed'. A trip outside was not a normal thing. Those who made did not return. At present there is no trace of the practice and knowledgeable Pandits, those who live outside and those in Kashmir, never think of the return of those old days and custoims. DB" Thanks for this extraordinary fact. I don't recall hearing of the brahmins of any other part of the subcontinent regarding migration as a cause for excommunication. My Pandit friends (baby boomers) had ancestors in the Maharaja's administration. They told me that when one was posted to the western parts of the kingdom, which are now in Azad Kashmir, their families would say goodbye to them as to someone going off to their death. But they said nothing about punishment, just about danger. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From hwtull at MSN.COM Thu Jan 7 15:52:42 2010 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Thu, 07 Jan 10 10:52:42 -0500 Subject: Book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088150.23782.8576336327783378104.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1248 Lines: 48 Is it "kosher" or "pukka"? Of course, they are both related to cooking! Cheers, Herman Tull > Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 16:32:03 +0100 > From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM > Subject: Re: Book > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > It's always been kosher to announce one's publications - one of the original > purposes of this forum. > > What has been deprecated is publishers posting advertisements. > > In other words, this list clings vainly to a once dominant but now > completely outdated idea that the internet shouldn't be used for commercial > purposes. Ha ha. > > Best, and congratulations on the new volume. > > Dominik > > > 2010/1/5 Patrick Olivelle > > > Dear All: > > > > Since it appears now to be kosher to let everyone know about the > > publication on one's own book, here is my edition and translation of the > > Vaisnava Dharmasastra (aka Visnu-smriti) published in the Harvard Oriental > > Series (# 73). > > > > The Law Code of Visnu. ISBN 9780674051393 > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > Patrick Olivelle > > _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/ From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Jan 7 15:32:03 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 07 Jan 10 16:32:03 +0100 Subject: Book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088146.23782.17923343007856735408.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 774 Lines: 33 It's always been kosher to announce one's publications - one of the original purposes of this forum. What has been deprecated is publishers posting advertisements. In other words, this list clings vainly to a once dominant but now completely outdated idea that the internet shouldn't be used for commercial purposes. Ha ha. Best, and congratulations on the new volume. Dominik 2010/1/5 Patrick Olivelle > Dear All: > > Since it appears now to be kosher to let everyone know about the > publication on one's own book, here is my edition and translation of the > Vaisnava Dharmasastra (aka Visnu-smriti) published in the Harvard Oriental > Series (# 73). > > The Law Code of Visnu. ISBN 9780674051393 > > > Thanks. > > Patrick Olivelle > From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Thu Jan 7 11:08:15 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Thu, 07 Jan 10 16:38:15 +0530 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: <4B44A8E10200003A00072C5F@ntgwgate.loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227088142.23782.1629534090857403577.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1857 Lines: 36 I should not be misunderstood. No punishment was meant. It was just giving up one. Note the ceremony in honour of the departed. Perhaps ignorance of? "devilish" outside world?could be?at work. --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Allen W Thrasher wrote: From: Allen W Thrasher Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Thursday, 7 January, 2010, 1:44 AM " In earlier times leaving the valley meant excommunication. A ceremony was held in honour of the 'departed'. A trip outside was not a normal thing. Those who made did not return. At present there is no trace of the practice and knowledgeable Pandits, those who live outside and those in Kashmir, never think of the return of those old days and custoims. DB" Thanks for this extraordinary fact.? I don't recall hearing of the brahmins of any other part of the subcontinent regarding migration as a cause for excommunication. My Pandit friends (baby boomers) had ancestors in the Maharaja's administration.? They told me that when one was posted to the western parts of the kingdom, which are now in Azad Kashmir, their families would say goodbye to them as to someone going off to their death. But they said nothing about punishment, just about danger. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Thu Jan 7 16:06:00 2010 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Thu, 07 Jan 10 17:06:00 +0100 Subject: GRETIL update #362 Message-ID: <161227088153.23782.6120395224672769295.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 551 Lines: 20 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Hala: Sattasai __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Thu Jan 7 15:34:21 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Thu, 07 Jan 10 21:04:21 +0530 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: <20100107T093057Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227088148.23782.10804541624184605280.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3602 Lines: 58 No such cases were related to me.?That would hardly happen in the nineteenth century or before tho the matter requires some further spadework.?Would an Alaskan go back from South of Canada unless he had hunch of unknown gold mines? ?South of Kashmir India offered more opportunities.? Remember rhe Nehrus?and other lordly families? Pandits were persecuted and fled Kashmir in the very late medieval period. A whole branch settled in?Karnatak. But I should not remark before doing further work that is not? possible just now. One known fact. In the fifteenth century a Kashmiri scholar had gone to Karnatak, had learnt something there and came back to be hugely welcomed.?This matter has been repeatedly emphasised and recently?contested, quite wrongly according to me. The Introductons to the volumes of the Paippalaada-Samhitaa (AS, Kolkata)?will furnish the required information.?What cannot be denied is that the withdrawal syndromes grew?later. Best DB? --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Allen W Thrasher wrote: From: Allen W Thrasher Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Thursday, 7 January, 2010, 8:00 PM What would happen if the person unexpectedly returned?? Was his property distributed to the usual heirs after the quasi-memorial service, or after a certain period of time?? Was it anything like the social and legal situation of someone who took sannyasa and then came back wanting to get his property and wife back - i.e. that's out because you're really dead? Allen >>> Dipak Bhattacharya 1/7/2010 6:08:15 AM >>> I should not be misunderstood. No punishment was meant. It was just giving up one. Note the ceremony in honour of the departed. Perhaps ignorance of? "devilish" outside world could be at work. --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Allen W Thrasher wrote: From: Allen W Thrasher Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Thursday, 7 January, 2010, 1:44 AM " In earlier times leaving the valley meant excommunication. A ceremony was held in honour of the 'departed'. A trip outside was not a normal thing. Those who made did not return. At present there is no trace of the practice and knowledgeable Pandits, those who live outside and those in Kashmir, never think of the return of those old days and custoims. DB" Thanks for this extraordinary fact.? I don't recall hearing of the brahmins of any other part of the subcontinent regarding migration as a cause for excommunication. My Pandit friends (baby boomers) had ancestors in the Maharaja's administration.? They told me that when one was posted to the western parts of the kingdom, which are now in Azad Kashmir, their families would say goodbye to them as to someone going off to their death. But they said nothing about punishment, just about danger. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. ? ? ? The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Sat Jan 9 13:17:04 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sat, 09 Jan 10 18:47:04 +0530 Subject: The History of Dharmashatras Message-ID: <161227088155.23782.3301993757856075400.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 213 Lines: 10 Dear Colleagues, Could anybody tell if the History of Dharmashastras by P.V.Kane is available online? Best DB? The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE Sun Jan 10 09:50:21 2010 From: axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE (Axel Michaels) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 10 09:50:21 +0000 Subject: hoax Message-ID: <161227088157.23782.3182701148648580656.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 769 Lines: 15 Dear all, I am very sorry but by mistake I seem to have contributed to the spread of a hoax ("Axel Michaels sent you a private message on Feed Share - please respond"). Kindly just ignore and delete it. Best greetings and wishes for 2010 Axel Michaels ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Axel Michaels Sprecher des SFB 619 ("Ritualdynamik"), Kodirektor des Exzellenzclusters "Asia and Europe in a Global Context" Universit?t Heidelberg, S?dasien-Institut, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, D-69120 Heidelberg Tel. +49-6221-548917 / Fax +49-6221-546338 http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/index.html -- http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/ -- www.ritualdynamik.uni-hd.de -- Axel.Michaels at urz.uni-heidelberg.de -- michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de From franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Sun Jan 10 16:29:10 2010 From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE (Eli Franco) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 10 17:29:10 +0100 Subject: Publication announcement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088159.23782.9218303911643160643.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 724 Lines: 19 Erich Frauwallner, Philosophie des Buddhismus. Akademie Verlag, Berlin 2010. 282 pp. This fifth edition in a new format is prefaced by Karin Preisendanz and myself. The (German) preface (pp. XII-LIII) deals with Frauwallner's life and work, reproduces his original scheme for the History of Indian Philosophy, contains a full bibliography of his writings, and provides an annotated bibliography of selected further readings on South Asian Buddhism with emphasis on philosophy. Some of you may remember the heated discussion in this list about German and Austrian Indology and National Socialism. The preface shows that the two are not unconnected in Frauwallner's case. With best wishes for the New Year, Eli Franco From filipsky at RZONE.CZ Sun Jan 10 17:08:26 2010 From: filipsky at RZONE.CZ (=?utf-8?Q?Jan_Filipsk=C3=BD?=) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 10 18:08:26 +0100 Subject: Czech Dictionary of Anthropology Message-ID: <161227088161.23782.9156353654357352406.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3487 Lines: 84 Dear All, those list members who read Czech may be interested in the following encyclopedic tool published December last: "The Dictionary of Anthropology (with consideration of the history of literature and art) or What Every Human Should Know about Humans" by Jaroslav Malina et al., Akademicke nakladatelstvi CERM, Brno 2009. ISBN 978-80-7204-560-0. The printed part (293 p.) contains more than 170 specimen entries, the complete dictionary comprising the total of 20 000 entries (4737 p.) is available on the attached CD. The utility value of this publication is significantly increased by its free internet access at http://is.muni.cz/do/1431/UAntrBiol/el/antropos/index.html Through this gesture, the authors and publishers have joined an international initiative in support of open access to scientific research in the spirit of the Berlin Declaration of 2003, so far signed by nearly 300 prestigious universities and research institutes from all over the world (for the Czech Republic: the Academy of Sciences and the Czech Science Foundation), thereby aligning themselves with the pioneers of the idea of Free Online Scholarship. In the over one hundred-year long history of Czech anthropology, this dictionary is the first of its kind. It was compiled by leading Czech specialists for students of anthropology and related disciplines (archaeology, biology, economics, political science, ethnology, history, culturology, linguistics, media studies, medicine, law, psychology, religion studies, sexology and sociology), for teachers and students of secondary school, and for the general public. The team of 170 authors (including my humble self) was headed by the foremost Czech anthropologist prof. Jaroslav Malina, Director of the Anthropological Institute of the Masaryk University in Brno. The dictionary was systematically constructed as an integral database of knowledge obtained in the area of the sciences of humans, society and culture within the context of development in anthropology and its sub-disciplines, research methods, paradigms and theories. In contrast to standard Anglo-Saxon dictionaries, its thematic area of interest expands to include the belles-lettres and fine arts. A complex variety of entries dedicated to the area of art culture, which has been largely omitted by traditional anthropology, has been integrated into the dictionary. Publishing this dictionary can therefore be considered an expansion of the epistemological background of anthropology as well as a contribution to the development of the anthropology of art, which has not yet been comprehensively discussed at the international level. The topics are explored broadly and include the origins of basic livelihood strategies (hunting, agriculture), settlement (urbanization), social organization and culture (urban civilization, the early state), technology (stone tools, ceramics, metallurgy), kinship, sexuality, marriage, rituals, law, mythology, religion, writing and literature. In their origins these topics are usually associated with the areas of the Ancient Near East, the Far East and the Indian subcontinent, where much inspiration and ideas for other civilizations have arisen, including the European civilization. The Dictionary of Anthropology can be used as a regular reference work as well as an anthropological textbook. Best regards, Jan Filipsky, Oriental Institute Praha From fransfe at TIN.IT Sun Jan 10 19:56:23 2010 From: fransfe at TIN.IT (Francesco Sferra) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 10 20:56:23 +0100 Subject: Manuscripta Buddhica Vol. 1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088164.23782.14235700481768858507.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2229 Lines: 61 Dear Colleagues, I am glad to announce the publication of the first volume of the series Manuscripta Buddhica, a sub-series, edited by Harunaga Isaacson and myself, of the Rome Oriental Series. The first volume, which is entitled Sanskrit Texts from Giuseppe Tucci's Collection. Part I, and was edited by me, contains information on the Sanskrit manuscripts gathered by Tucci during his missions, information on the history of these missions and eight essays, mainly on unedited texts or manuscripts. Each essay is accompanied by reproductions of the manuscripts studied. The table of contents: Foreword by Gherardo Gnoli, p. 7 Preface "Manuscripta Buddhica" by Harunaga Isaacson and Francesco Sferra, p. 9 Editorial Note and Acknowledgments by Francesco Sferra, p. 11 PART I Francesco Sferra: Sanskrit Manuscripts and Photographs of Sanskrit Manuscripts in Giuseppe Tucci?s Collection, p. 15 Oscar Nalesini: Assembling Loose Pages, Gathering Fragments of the Past: Giuseppe Tucci and His Wanderings Throughout Tibet and the Himalayas, 1926-1954, p. 79 PART II Vincent Eltschinger: ?ankaranandana?s Sarvaj?asiddhi. A Preliminary Report, p. 115 Eli Franco: Variant Readings from Tucci?s Photographs of the Yoginir?ayaprakara?a Manuscript, p. 157 Paolo Giunta: The ?ryadhvaj?grakey?ra n?ma dh?ri??. Diplomatic Edition of MS Tucci 3.2.16, p. 187 Albrecht Hanisch: Sarvarak?ita?s Ma?ic??aj?taka. Reproduction of the Codex Unicus with Diplomatic Transcript and Palaeographic Introduction to the Bhaik?uk? Script, p. 195 Kano Kazuo: Two Short Glosses on Yog?c?ra Texts by Vairocanaraksita: Vi??ik???k?viv?ti and *Dharmadharmat?vibh?gaviv?ti, p. 343 Kano Kazuo: A Preliminary Report on Newly Identified Text Fragments in ??rad? Script from Zwa lu Monastery in the Tucci Collection, p. 381 Birgit Kellner: A Missing Page from Durvekami?ra?s Dharmottaraprad?pa on Ny?yabindu 3.15 and 3.18 in Context, p. 401 Birgit Kellner and Francesco Sferra: A Palm-leaf Manuscript of Dharmak?rti?s Pram??av?rttika from the Collection kept by the Nepalese r?jaguru Hemar?ja ?arman, p. 423 Contributors, p. 485 Copies can be ordered from the IsIAO Mediastore (http://www.mediastore.isiao.it/ ). Yours sincerely, Francesco Sferra From joseph.walser at TUFTS.EDU Mon Jan 11 20:10:29 2010 From: joseph.walser at TUFTS.EDU (Joseph Walser) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 10 15:10:29 -0500 Subject: article In-Reply-To: <20080918115810.BEH33129@m4500-03.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227088166.23782.6362512350094647932.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 166 Lines: 15 How is the editing going? -j -- Joseph Walser Associate Professor Department of Religion Tufts University 314 Eaton Hall Medford, MA 02155 Office: 617 627-2322 From joseph.walser at TUFTS.EDU Mon Jan 11 20:15:15 2010 From: joseph.walser at TUFTS.EDU (Joseph Walser) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 10 15:15:15 -0500 Subject: article -- apologies In-Reply-To: <4B4B85B5.1010401@tufts.edu> Message-ID: <161227088168.23782.16857622780227101371.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 287 Lines: 21 Dear All, Sorry for sending a personal message to the list. Not exactly sure what happened. Joseph Walser wrote: > How is the editing going? > -j > -- Joseph Walser Associate Professor Department of Religion Tufts University 314 Eaton Hall Medford, MA 02155 Office: 617 627-2322 From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Tue Jan 12 05:11:08 2010 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 10 21:11:08 -0800 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: <4415_1262723178_1262723178_4B43A069.4020606@uni-muenchen.de> Message-ID: <161227088173.23782.10331174023334225210.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3899 Lines: 73 Dr. Dominic Goodall's excellent posting, "script and Sanskrit," reminded me that I had forgotten to finalize and mail a text I had drafted on 11 January. DG has made my first point in a much better way -- with precise evidence and mention of a rewarding connection with the conflation phenomenon noticed in mss. My text ran thus: I have benefited considerably from the discussion that has so far taken place. I wish to add five points to it. 1. While concluding that the association of Sanskrit with Devanagari has grown over the latter half of the 19th century and most of the 20th century and that historically Skt did not have exclusive association with any particular script, we should not overlook the fact that there was a wide enough basis in manuscripts for Skt to make its association with Nagari stronger and stronger. From Varanasi to Lahore and from Delhi to Ahmedabad (if not beyond these geographical specifications which I have chosen somewhat arbitrarily), even pre-British mss of Skt (and Prakrit) works are written in forms of Nagari that differ only in limited and relatively minor ways from Devanagari. Just as Hindi with its various dialects had a natural advantage when an official language was to be decided for independent India, Nagari in its several mutually close forms had a natural advantage when printing technology was to be used. The spread and growing acceptance of Devanagari should, therefore, not be viewed as primarily coming from some kind of British policy. Rather, at an earlier time, the policy is more likely to have been shaped by the ground realities, although in a later time it could have affected the ground reality. 2. When we come to the late 19th and early 20th century, the point that was made in an earlier posting regarding the absence of ;Saaradaa printing fonts should be taken seriously. See p. 9 fn 12 of Kaul, Mrinal; Aklujkar, Ashok. 2008. (eds) Linguistic Traditions of Kashmir. New Delhi: D.K. Printworld. 3. In just about the same period, the publications of the Nirnaya Sagar Press and the Venkatesh Steam Press seem to have made a great contribution to the spread of Devanagari and to strengthening its association with Skt. The inexpensive, accurate and attractively printed publications of these presses were very popular (I intend "attractively printed" as applicable only to the NSP). I have heard it from a teacher of mine that Suniti Kumar Chatterjee used to express this view in his lectures. Jivananda Vidyasagara also must have made a similar contribution in an earlier period when editions were not copyrighted; cf. pp. 167-168 of Aklujkar, Ashok. 2008. "What more can the editors of Sanskrit texts do?" in Tattvabodha, vol. II, (ed) Chakravarty, Kalyan Kumar. New Delhi: National Mission for Manuscripts, pp. 165-189. 4. It is my impression that Devanagari was generally referred to as "Hindi script" in South India in the first three decades after India's independence. Its identification as "Skt script" is relatively later. However, my impression may be based on very limited experience or faulty memory. 5. Some reflection of what the situation could have been like when government policy began to promote Nagari can be seen in the current state of Gujarati. Publications in Gujarati language, especially the ones concerning Skt, Prakrit, Jainism etc., that is, concerning topics of potentially pan-Indian interest, frequently use Nagari instead of or in addition to the traditional Gujarati script. (Marathi has gone beyond this stage. It has completely given up its Mo.dii script, a cousin of the traditional Gujarati script.) Ashok Aklujkar P.S. We should note that "mzybe" in the title of this discussion thread is a typo for "maybe". Otherwise, a hundred years down the road, some historical linguist will use "mzybe" to build an elaborate theory about the kind of English we spoke in our time! From mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM Tue Jan 12 06:46:44 2010 From: mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 01:46:44 -0500 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088175.23782.17411334179472244341.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6347 Lines: 36 Dear Indologists, I think scholars like Professor Walter Slaje and others have made almost all important points and that leaves nothing much for me to say. We know that ??rad? has been in use in Kashmir since 9th CE. The Brahm? script used in the North-western part of Ancient India underwent a change circa 9th CE and the proto-??rad? script was created. In the regions like Himachal Pradesh and Jammu the common script used was ??kar?. But this script remained popular only from 9th to 14th cen. CE. Today, even the local people of Jammu or Himachal do not know that the script of their language was ??kar?. They commonly use the Devanagari script now. We do not have any strong evidence to show why the script in Kashmir is called ??rad? (apart from the reasons cited by Prof Slaje). We usually allude to the local heresy. As for the Kashmiri language, I do not think that there is much literature available that is written in ??rad? script. The oldest being the B???sukath?, the Sukhadukhacarita, and the Mah?nayaprak??a. Later we do find the V?ks of Lal Ded (14th CE) and R?pa Bhavan? (17th CE) also written in ??rad?. Of course with the advent Islamic rule the use of Persio-Arbic script was also introduced that continues till date. The peculiar phenomenon with Kashmir was that one could find pandits well versed both in Sanskrit and Persian languages. A well know example of this was Pandit Ishvar Kaul (1833-1893 CE) besides many others. This feature made many pandits use Nastalique for writing Sanskrit. I knew some people who could only read Sanskrit in Nastalique. There is still a good collection of Sanskrit Mss preserved in the Oriental Research Library and the Sri Pratap Museum Library in Srinagar those are written in the Nastalique script. In fact when I used to share this with my other non-Kashmiri Sanskritists, they were always astonished. Grierson has tried to use both the Devanagari and the Nastalique in his Kashmiri manual, dictionary etc. Some earlier pandits like Srinath Tickoo and others have tried to employ a peculiar quality of ??rad? script to produce the typical sounds of Kashmiri language, but, in my opinion, they have failed. The same scheme is also employed by Mukundram Shastri in the Kashmiri story that he writes in the second part of the eighth volume of the "Linguistic Survey of India". Today the majority of pandits use Devanagari for writing Kashmiri. They also justify that the Devanagari is the one and only script in which Kashmiri can be best expressed. On the other hand the Nastalique is the script recognized by the Indian constitution and all the books published in Kashmiri language by the Sahitya Academy or the Jammu and Kashmir Academy of Art, Culture and Languages are printed in the Nastalique script. I guess Nastalique is also very popular among the Kashmiri Musalmans and Devanagari amongst the Kashmiri pandits. The use of Nastalique for writing Kashmiri language is also based only on the usage of 'zer', 'zabar' and 'pesh', those, I am told, do not convey the best sounds of Kashmiri language. The ??rad? was mostly used for writing Sanskrit alone. The ??rad? script never had a printing press. This also played a major role in the extinction of the script in the valley besides many others. The first book to be printed in the ??rad? script was a Kashmiri translation of the Bible (I do not have the reference with me right now). All I can recall is that it was printed outside of Kashmir valley using big full page blocks engraved on metallic surfaces. The Jammu and Kashmir Research and Publication Department that was launched by Maharaja Pratap Singh in 1900 CE used to loan ??rad? Mss from the local pandits and transcribed them into the Devanagari script to make a press copy of the text. These press copies were sent either to Bombay, Pune or Allahabad for printing. I guess there was no Devanagari printing press in Kashmir that point of time. I can also recall that Pandit Keshav Bhatta Jyotshi who was a famous priest and a religious activist in Kashmir had got many of the Karma-k??da books printed from Mumbai on his own expenses. I think, later he also owned a press in Srinagar. I think the Devanagari was revived in Kashmir by Keshava Bhatta even though the use of Persio-Arabic script is still continued by the local priests. Some priests, as I have witnessed, are more comfortable with the Persio-Arabic script than the Devanagari. They can read Sanskrit faster in Nastalique than Devanagari. Most of the Karma-k??da books are published in both the scripts for the convenience of the readers. The Kashmiri almanac is also published in both the script every year till date that contains all sort of Sanskrit prayers in both the scripts besides the yearly calendar. Maharaja Ranbir Singh (1830-1885 CE) was a great patron of Sanskrit and Persian. He established a big translation department in Jammu where he employed pandits from Kashmir to transcribe the ??rad? Mss into the Devanagari. Eventually all these Mss today form a part of the Ranbir Sanskrit Research Library (formerly Raghunath Temple Library). The Devanagari written by these Pandits came to be known as Kashmirian Devanagari. I also hear that Pandits were some times demanded by the Kings of Varanasi and there was a small translation department there. I think there was more of transcribing going on in this translation department. As far as I recall having heard from the Sanskrit pandits of Kashmir, they said that their forefathers used to sit back home in winters and copy the Bhagavad Gita, the Puranas, the Mahabharata etc. and then go to the plains of Indian subcontinent to sell their Mss. I presume these Mss should have been in Devanagari because not many people outside of Kashmir would know ??rad?. This suggests a probability that pandits were not completely alien to Devanagari. Of course crossing the huge mountain ranges to visit the plains of Indian subcontinent and then coming back would have been a strong challenge in those days. Best. Yours sincerely, Mrinal Kaul ************************ Mrinal Kaul (Doctoral Fellow) Concordia University Department of Religion, FA-101 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd West Montreal, Quebec CANADA H3G 1M8 ************************* Cell: +1-514-8028228 e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org www.mrinalkaul.art.officelive.com From mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM Tue Jan 12 13:21:20 2010 From: mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 08:21:20 -0500 Subject: Well, may be not so cool: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: <476445.32996.qm@web8603.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088182.23782.6622186796325973078.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2888 Lines: 46 Dear BD Thanks for sharing this information. I guess it is not actually very helpful. We have known that one of the major reasons of naming the script as ??rad? might have been naming it after the goddess of learning in Kashmir called ??rad? (that is called Sarasvat? in the rest of India). ??rad? University was one of the major seats of learning in ancient India. A small portion of this university or temple is located in the form of ruins in the present Neelum valley (Neelum District) (also called so because of the Neelum river that was called Kishanganga in ancient sources) located in the modern Azad Kashmir or the Pakistan Occupied Kashmir in Pakistan. We have many epithets in Sanskrit literature of scholars having visited this university and got appreciation of the goddess ??rad? (I guess that also meant to get their work approved by the Sanskrit pandits of Kashmir who had high reputation at that point of time in the country). But we still are not very sure if the name of the script was taken from the name of the goddess. Some years back I wanted to allude to the etymology of the word ??rad? as given in the beginning of the ??rad?tilakatantra, but later I came to know that this tantra was of east-Indian origin and had nothing much to do with Kashmir as such (I would have loved to cite the reference, but I have landed up in a university where the library is extremely poor). Yes, as you would agree, ??rad? does resemble N?gar? to a much extant, but at the same time is very different from it. I am afraid for Roth's conclusions are not very significant. Best. Mrinal Kaul ************************ Mrinal Kaul (Doctoral Fellow) Concordia University Department of Religion, FA-101 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd West Montreal, Quebec CANADA H3G 1M8 ************************* Cell: +1-514-8028228 e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org www.mrinalkaul.art.officelive.com On 2010-01-12, at 7:26 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > Dear Scholars, > As to the meaning of the term ??rad? the following excerpt from Roth?s Der Atharvaveda in Kaschmir (13-14) may be of interest > ?Herr T.H.thornton schreibt unter dem 23. Mai: ? > ?I have had an opportunity while at Srinagar of seeing a Ms. > written in the Sharda character, which appears to me to so closely > resemble the ordinary written Nagri that there would be no difficulty > to a Sanskrit Scholar interpreting it. ? --I may mention that the Sharda > character is the character in which the Kashmir Sanskrit Manuscripts > are ordinarily written. The name is said to be derived from Sardah > a village in the vicinity of Chilas.? > Roth comments > ?Gegen diese kaschmirische Etymologie besten einige Bedenken. Das Wort ist > Wohl arabischen Ursprungs und bedeutet Urkundenschrift?? > In his support Roth cites shur?ah, shur?? and shar? meaning ?writer?, ?notary? and ?contract?. > Best wishes > DB > > From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Tue Jan 12 03:58:09 2010 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 09:28:09 +0530 Subject: scripts and Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227088170.23782.16130197389848306185.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2229 Lines: 51 In the discussion about scripts used for Sanskrit over the last few days, the widespread use of Devan?gar? (outside its "native" area) well before print seems to have been somewhat overlooked. S.A. Srinivasan's discussion of contamination has some interesting remarks on the relationship between Devan?gar? and other scripts on pp.4--5 of his edition of the Tattvakaumud?. (V?caspatimi?ras Tattvakaumud?. Ein Beitrag zur Textkritik bei kontaminierter ?berlieferung. Srinavasa Ayya Srinivasan. Hamburg, 1967.) Srinivasan is, as he explains, echoing Sukthankar's prolegomena to the ?diparvan of the Mah?bh?rata, on p.LXII of which, for instance, we may read: "The Devan?gar? script plays in the Mah?bh?rata textual tradition the important r?le of being the commonest medium of the contamination of different Mah?bh?rata versions. A Devan?gar? manuscript of the Mah?bh?rata may, in fact, contain practically any version or combination of versions." Geographical location no doubt goes a long way to explain the dominance of Devan?gar?. Presumably centres such as Benares, a pilgrimage site and therefore a place at which many texts must have been copied by people from many regions, had a role to play. And long before Devan?gar?, there is evidence of the use, in certain contexts, of a North-Indian standard (a proto-N?gar?) well beyond North Indian boundaries: digraphic inscriptions (using both a South Indian and a North Indian script type) are found on Pallava monuments of the early C8th, for instance, and somewhat later in Cambodia. One wonders, by the way, what centres (and what other factors) created the South Indian and South East Asian script-standard of the 5th to 8th centuries. As for script-names, these are notoriously uncertain. Is it known when the Kashmirian script became known as ??rad? ? And is there any old name at all known for the South Indian script-type so very widely used in the 5th to 8th centuries ? South-East-Asianists today, of course, call it "Pallava Grantha"; but presumably this wasn't how it was known in C6th Karnataka or C6th Orissa or C6th Cambodia. Dominic Goodall Pondicherry Centre, Ecole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient From wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK Tue Jan 12 12:26:35 2010 From: wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK (Whitney Cox) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 12:26:35 +0000 Subject: scripts and Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <958E903F-A901-489A-A26B-3985027EC145@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227088178.23782.7539389944101471549.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2760 Lines: 69 At the risk of being self-aggrandizing, I have a forthcoming article on the (epigraphic) use of N?gar? in the 11th and 12th century western Deccan. I would be happy to share off-prints with anyone interested once it appears. Please contact me off-list, Whitney Cox 2010/1/12 Dominic Goodall : > In the discussion about scripts used for Sanskrit over the last few days, > the widespread use of Devan?gar? (outside its "native" area) well before > print seems to have been somewhat overlooked. > > S.A. Srinivasan's discussion of contamination has some interesting remarks > on the relationship between Devan?gar? and other scripts on pp.4--5 of his > edition of the Tattvakaumud?. > (V?caspatimi?ras Tattvakaumud?. Ein Beitrag zur Textkritik bei > kontaminierter ?berlieferung. > Srinavasa Ayya Srinivasan. Hamburg, 1967.) > > Srinivasan is, as he explains, echoing Sukthankar's prolegomena to the > ?diparvan of the Mah?bh?rata, on p.LXII of which, for instance, we may read: > > "The Devan?gar? script plays in the Mah?bh?rata textual tradition the > important r?le of being the commonest medium of the contamination of > different Mah?bh?rata versions. ?A Devan?gar? manuscript of the Mah?bh?rata > may, in fact, contain practically any version or combination of versions." > > Geographical location no doubt goes a long way to explain the dominance of > Devan?gar?. ?Presumably centres such as Benares, a pilgrimage site and > therefore a place at which many texts must have been copied by people from > many regions, had a role to play. > > And long before Devan?gar?, there is evidence of the use, in certain > contexts, of a North-Indian standard (a proto-N?gar?) well beyond North > Indian boundaries: digraphic inscriptions (using both a South Indian and a > North Indian script type) are found on Pallava monuments of the early C8th, > for instance, and somewhat later in Cambodia. > > One wonders, by the way, what centres (and what other factors) created the > South Indian and South East Asian script-standard of the 5th to 8th > centuries. > > As for script-names, these are notoriously uncertain. Is it known when the > Kashmirian script became known as ??rad? ? ?And is there any old name at all > known for the South Indian script-type so very widely used in the 5th to 8th > centuries ? ?South-East-Asianists today, of course, call it "Pallava > Grantha"; but presumably this wasn't how it was known in C6th Karnataka or > C6th Orissa or C6th Cambodia. > > Dominic Goodall > > > Pondicherry Centre, > Ecole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient > -- Dr. Whitney Cox Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, School of Oriental and African Studies Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square London WC1H 0XG From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Tue Jan 12 22:52:34 2010 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 14:52:34 -0800 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: <19555_1263332334_1263332334_4B4CA58A0200003A00073795@ntgwgate.loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227088200.23782.15780488733714849928.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 716 Lines: 22 Allen, I meant the comparison to be taken only in the context of spread of Nagari. But you raise a good question. I have not yet seen a Skt text written in Mo.dii. The terminology 'secular : religious', however, may turn out to be only aprroximately applicable. For example, there may be notebooks etc. in which stotras in regular use are written in Mo.dii. Best wishes. ashok On 10-01-12 1:38 PM, "Allen W Thrasher" wrote: > I was under the impression that traditionally in Maharashtra Modi was used for > secular purposes (correspondence and legal and administrative documents) and > Devanagari aka Balbodh for religious texts. Is that incorrect? Also, was > Modi used for Sanskrit? From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Jan 12 21:38:34 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 16:38:34 -0500 Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088192.23782.2424676093495730507.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 801 Lines: 17 Ashok, I was under the impression that traditionally in Maharashtra Modi was used for secular purposes (correspondence and legal and administrative documents) and Devanagari aka Balbodh for religious texts. Is that incorrect? Also, was Modi used for Sanskrit? Allen " Some reflection of what the situation could have been like when government policy began to promote Nagari can be seen in the current state of Gujarati. Publications in Gujarati language, especially the ones concerning Skt, Prakrit, Jainism etc., that is, concerning topics of potentially pan-Indian interest, frequently use Nagari instead of or in addition to the traditional Gujarati script. (Marathi has gone beyond this stage. It has completely given up its Mo.dii script, a cousin of the traditional Gujarati script.)" From coseruc at COFC.EDU Tue Jan 12 21:52:24 2010 From: coseruc at COFC.EDU (Christian Coseru) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 16:52:24 -0500 Subject: Abhandlungen der K=?iso-8859-15?Q?=F6niglichen?= Akademie der Wissensch aften zu Berlin In-Reply-To: <4B4CE59A.8010502@univie.ac.at> Message-ID: <161227088195.23782.16178020709627787640.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2756 Lines: 75 Birgit Kellner wrote: > I gather on a recent Mac OS, there should already be tools available in the operating system for the job. > > I trust the real geeks on the list can provide further advice :-) Thankfully, the real geeks at Apple have made it easy for those of us using Macs. It's pretty simple on the Mac (at least if your running a recent OS, 10.5x or 10.6). Download all the JPEG files with the wget command as Birgit suggested. In Finder navigate to the directory where the image files are stored, then simply do a Select All (? A) and Copy (? A). Now open your Preview application and go to File > New from Clipboard (? N) and voil?! All the image files have been added to an untitled document, which you now can save as a PDF file. Best, Christian Christian Coseru, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Philosophy College of Charleston 66 George Street Charleston, SC 29424 Office: Phone: 843 953-1935 Facsimile: 843 953-6388 Email: coseruc at cofc.edu On Jan 12, 2010, at 4:11 PM, Birgit Kellner wrote: > Jonathan Silk wrote: >> I have a feeling I may be an idiot (well, I'm sure in other respects, but in >> this case...): I learn from Indologica that we can find online the >> *Abhandlungen >> der K?niglichen Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin. * >> >> When I go, however, for example to >> http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/bibliothek-digital/digitalequellen/schriften/anzeige/index_html?band=07-abh/1844&seite:int=711, >> I can only get one page at a time; is there not a way to download an entire >> article? >> >> Thanks for your advice! Jonathan >> >> > The interface unfortunately doesn't offer the possibility to download several pages at once (as a PDF, for instance), no. > > There is a workaround, but it's a bit time-consuming: > > 1.) Click on a page image with the desired size ("large", for instance). You see the JPG file and get a link like this in the browser's URL line: > > http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/thumbnail?band=07-abh/1844&aufloesung:int=2&img=DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/00000002.jpg&seite:int=2 > > This means that the image file is stored in this directory: > > http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/ > > 2.) If you have the wonderful little tool wget installed, run > > wget -r http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/ > > from the command line. > > This gets you all images for the volume in question to a local folder. You can then create a PDF file with these images (even run OCR on them before), with, for instance Adobe Acrobat Pro (on Windows); I gather on a recent Mac OS, there should already be tools available in the operating system for the job. > > I trust the real geeks on the list can provide further advice :-) > > Best, > > b From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Tue Jan 12 12:26:59 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 17:56:59 +0530 Subject: Well, may be not so cool: Sanskrit script? In-Reply-To: <79916B2C-00EF-4186-93D3-7F05B6BF66DC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227088180.23782.8792099840086079118.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7598 Lines: 70 Dear Scholars, As to the meaning of the term ??rad? the following excerpt from Roth?s Der Atharvaveda in Kaschmir (13-14) may be of interest ?Herr T.H.thornton schreibt unter dem 23. Mai: ? ?I have had an opportunity while at Srinagar of seeing a Ms. written in the Sharda character, which appears to me to so closely resemble the ordinary written Nagri that there would be no difficulty to a Sanskrit Scholar interpreting it. ? --I may mention that the Sharda character is the character in which the Kashmir Sanskrit Manuscripts are ordinarily written. The name is said to be derived from Sardah a village in the vicinity of Chilas.? Roth comments ?Gegen diese kaschmirische Etymologie besten einige Bedenken. Das Wort ist Wohl arabischen Ursprungs und bedeutet Urkundenschrift?? In his support Roth cites shur?ah, shur?? and shar? meaning ?writer?, ?notary? and ?contract?. Best wishes DB --- On Tue, 12/1/10, Mrinal Kaul wrote: From: Mrinal Kaul Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 12 January, 2010, 12:16 PM Dear Indologists, I think scholars like Professor Walter Slaje and others have made almost all important points and that leaves nothing much for me to say. We know that ??rad? has been in use in Kashmir since 9th CE. The Brahm? script used in the North-western part of Ancient India underwent a change circa 9th CE and the proto-??rad? script was created. In the regions like Himachal Pradesh and Jammu the common script used was ??kar?. But this script remained popular only from 9th to 14th cen. CE. Today, even the local people of Jammu or Himachal do not know that the script of their language was ??kar?. They commonly use the Devanagari script now. We do not have any strong evidence to show why the script in Kashmir is called ??rad? (apart from the reasons cited by Prof Slaje). We usually allude to the local heresy. As for the Kashmiri language, I do not think that there is much literature available that is written in ??rad? script. The oldest being the B???sukath?, the Sukhadukhacarita, and the Mah?nayaprak??a. Later we do find the V?ks of Lal Ded (14th CE) and R?pa Bhavan? (17th CE) also written in ??rad?. Of course with the advent Islamic rule the use of Persio-Arbic script was also introduced that continues till date. The peculiar phenomenon with Kashmir was that one could find pandits well versed both in Sanskrit and Persian languages. A well know example of this was Pandit Ishvar Kaul (1833-1893 CE) besides many others. This feature made many pandits use Nastalique for writing Sanskrit. I knew some people who could only read Sanskrit in Nastalique. There is still a good collection of Sanskrit Mss preserved in the Oriental Research Library and the Sri Pratap Museum Library in Srinagar those are written in the Nastalique script. In fact when I used to share this with my other non-Kashmiri Sanskritists, they were always astonished. Grierson has tried to use both the Devanagari and the Nastalique in his Kashmiri manual, dictionary etc. Some earlier pandits like Srinath Tickoo and others have tried to employ a peculiar quality of ??rad? script to produce the typical sounds of Kashmiri language, but, in my opinion, they have failed. The same scheme is also employed by Mukundram Shastri in the Kashmiri story that he writes in the second part of the eighth volume of the "Linguistic Survey of India". Today the majority of pandits use Devanagari for writing Kashmiri. They also justify that the Devanagari is the one and only script in which Kashmiri can be best expressed. On the other hand the Nastalique is the script recognized by the Indian constitution and all the books published in Kashmiri language by the Sahitya Academy or the Jammu and Kashmir Academy of Art, Culture and Languages are printed in the Nastalique script. I guess Nastalique is also very popular among the Kashmiri Musalmans and Devanagari amongst the Kashmiri pandits. The use of Nastalique for writing Kashmiri language is also based only on the usage of 'zer', 'zabar' and 'pesh', those, I am told, do not convey the best sounds of Kashmiri language. The ??rad? was mostly used for writing Sanskrit alone. The ??rad? script never had a printing press. This also played a major role in the extinction of the script in the valley besides many others. The first book to be printed in the ??rad? script was a Kashmiri translation of the Bible (I do not have the reference with me right now). All I can recall is that it was printed outside of Kashmir valley using big full page blocks engraved on metallic surfaces. The Jammu and Kashmir Research and Publication Department that was launched by Maharaja Pratap Singh in 1900 CE used to loan ??rad? Mss from the local pandits and transcribed them into the Devanagari script to make a press copy of the text. These press copies were sent either to Bombay, Pune or Allahabad for printing. I guess there was no Devanagari printing press in Kashmir that point of time. I can also recall that Pandit Keshav Bhatta Jyotshi who was a famous priest and a religious activist in Kashmir had got many of the Karma-k??da books printed from Mumbai on his own expenses. I think, later he also owned a press in Srinagar. I think the Devanagari was revived in Kashmir by Keshava Bhatta even though the use of Persio-Arabic script is still continued by the local priests. Some priests, as I have witnessed, are more comfortable with the Persio-Arabic script than the Devanagari. They can read Sanskrit faster in Nastalique than Devanagari. Most of the Karma-k??da books are published in both the scripts for the convenience of the readers. The Kashmiri almanac is also published in both the script every year till date that contains all sort of Sanskrit prayers in both the scripts besides the yearly calendar. Maharaja Ranbir Singh (1830-1885 CE) was a great patron of Sanskrit and Persian. He established a big translation department in Jammu where he employed pandits from Kashmir to transcribe the ??rad? Mss into the Devanagari. Eventually all these Mss today form a part of the Ranbir Sanskrit Research Library (formerly Raghunath Temple Library). The Devanagari written by these Pandits came to be known as Kashmirian Devanagari. I also hear that Pandits were some times demanded by the Kings of Varanasi and there was a small translation department there. I think there was more of transcribing going on in this translation department. As far as I recall having heard from the Sanskrit pandits of Kashmir, they said that their forefathers used to sit back home in winters and copy the Bhagavad Gita, the Puranas, the Mahabharata etc. and then go to the plains of Indian subcontinent to sell their Mss. I presume these Mss should have been in Devanagari because not many people outside of Kashmir would know ??rad?. This suggests a probability that pandits were not completely alien to Devanagari. Of course crossing the huge mountain ranges to visit the plains of Indian subcontinent and then coming back would have been a strong challenge in those days. Best. Yours sincerely, Mrinal Kaul ************************ Mrinal Kaul (Doctoral Fellow) Concordia University Department of Religion, FA-101 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd West Montreal, Quebec CANADA H3G 1M8 ************************* Cell: +1-514-8028228 e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org www.mrinalkaul.art.officelive.com The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Tue Jan 12 18:37:54 2010 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 19:37:54 +0100 Subject: Abhandlungen der K=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=B6niglichen?= Akademie der Wissensch aften zu Berlin Message-ID: <161227088184.23782.5043197399062410585.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 586 Lines: 21 I have a feeling I may be an idiot (well, I'm sure in other respects, but in this case...): I learn from Indologica that we can find online the *Abhandlungen der K?niglichen Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin. * When I go, however, for example to http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/bibliothek-digital/digitalequellen/schriften/anzeige/index_html?band=07-abh/1844&seite:int=711, I can only get one page at a time; is there not a way to download an entire article? Thanks for your advice! Jonathan -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT Tue Jan 12 21:11:54 2010 From: birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Birgit Kellner) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 22:11:54 +0100 Subject: Abhandlungen der K=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=B6niglichen?= Akademie der Wissensch aften zu Berlin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088189.23782.13101082635815275136.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1659 Lines: 48 Jonathan Silk wrote: > I have a feeling I may be an idiot (well, I'm sure in other respects, but in > this case...): I learn from Indologica that we can find online the > *Abhandlungen > der K?niglichen Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin. * > > When I go, however, for example to > http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/bibliothek-digital/digitalequellen/schriften/anzeige/index_html?band=07-abh/1844&seite:int=711, > I can only get one page at a time; is there not a way to download an entire > article? > > Thanks for your advice! Jonathan > > The interface unfortunately doesn't offer the possibility to download several pages at once (as a PDF, for instance), no. There is a workaround, but it's a bit time-consuming: 1.) Click on a page image with the desired size ("large", for instance). You see the JPG file and get a link like this in the browser's URL line: http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/thumbnail?band=07-abh/1844&aufloesung:int=2&img=DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/00000002.jpg&seite:int=2 This means that the image file is stored in this directory: http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/ 2.) If you have the wonderful little tool wget installed, run wget -r http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/ from the command line. This gets you all images for the volume in question to a local folder. You can then create a PDF file with these images (even run OCR on them before), with, for instance Adobe Acrobat Pro (on Windows); I gather on a recent Mac OS, there should already be tools available in the operating system for the job. I trust the real geeks on the list can provide further advice :-) Best, b From ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU Tue Jan 12 23:04:26 2010 From: ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Paul G. Hackett) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 23:04:26 +0000 Subject: Abhandlungen der K=?Windows-1252?Q?=F6niglichen?= Akademie der Wisse nsch aften zu Berlin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088203.23782.263832997434026856.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4073 Lines: 137 Jonathan, Try Bulkloader. Available from http://www.thhdesign.com It works for files with sequentially numbered filenames, and runs as fast as your connection will allow without the overhead of a full web browser. Best, Paul Hackett Columbia University Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Silk Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 23:17:36 To: Subject: Re: Abhandlungen der K?niglichen Akademie der Wisse nsch aften zu Berlin Thanks to all; I already (on an earlier Mac OS) have long used a delightful little piece of software called Combine PDFs, which for instance allows you to remove and reorder and reorient pages in a multi-page document. The problem is not putting things together but the necessity to download a long article page by page... quicker to go to library and xerox the original, and run that through a scanner (for a long paper, if you have access to a good library, yes, I know). thanks! Jonathan 2010/1/12 Christian Coseru > Birgit Kellner wrote: > > > I gather on a recent Mac OS, there should already be tools available in > the operating system for the job. > > > > I trust the real geeks on the list can provide further advice :-) > > > Thankfully, the real geeks at Apple have made it easy for those of us using > Macs. > > It's pretty simple on the Mac (at least if your running a recent OS, 10.5x > or 10.6). Download all the JPEG files with the wget command as Birgit > suggested. > > In Finder navigate to the directory where the image files are stored, then > simply do a Select All (? A) and Copy (? A). > > Now open your Preview application and go to File > New from Clipboard (? N) > and voil?! All the image files have been added to an untitled document, > which you now can save as a PDF file. > > Best, > Christian > > > Christian Coseru, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Philosophy > College of Charleston > 66 George Street > Charleston, SC 29424 > > Office: > Phone: 843 953-1935 > Facsimile: 843 953-6388 > Email: coseruc at cofc.edu > > On Jan 12, 2010, at 4:11 PM, Birgit Kellner wrote: > > > Jonathan Silk wrote: > >> I have a feeling I may be an idiot (well, I'm sure in other respects, > but in > >> this case...): I learn from Indologica that we can find online the > >> *Abhandlungen > >> der K?niglichen Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin. * > >> > >> When I go, however, for example to > >> > http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/bibliothek-digital/digitalequellen/schriften/anzeige/index_html?band=07-abh/1844&seite:int=711 > , > >> I can only get one page at a time; is there not a way to download an > entire > >> article? > >> > >> Thanks for your advice! Jonathan > >> > >> > > The interface unfortunately doesn't offer the possibility to download > several pages at once (as a PDF, for instance), no. > > > > There is a workaround, but it's a bit time-consuming: > > > > 1.) Click on a page image with the desired size ("large", for instance). > You see the JPG file and get a link like this in the browser's URL line: > > > > > http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/thumbnail?band=07-abh/1844&aufloesung:int=2&img=DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/00000002.jpg&seite:int=2 > > > > This means that the image file is stored in this directory: > > > > http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/ > > > > 2.) If you have the wonderful little tool wget installed, run > > > > wget -r http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/ > > > > from the command line. > > > > This gets you all images for the volume in question to a local folder. > You can then create a PDF file with these images (even run OCR on them > before), with, for instance Adobe Acrobat Pro (on Windows); I gather on a > recent Mac OS, there should already be tools available in the operating > system for the job. > > > > I trust the real geeks on the list can provide further advice :-) > > > > Best, > > > > b > -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Tue Jan 12 22:17:36 2010 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 23:17:36 +0100 Subject: Abhandlungen der K=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=B6niglichen?= Akademie der Wisse nsch aften zu Berlin In-Reply-To: <22713509-8F76-4656-B904-1B6E27431D83@cofc.edu> Message-ID: <161227088198.23782.13230587747490358026.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3541 Lines: 115 Thanks to all; I already (on an earlier Mac OS) have long used a delightful little piece of software called Combine PDFs, which for instance allows you to remove and reorder and reorient pages in a multi-page document. The problem is not putting things together but the necessity to download a long article page by page... quicker to go to library and xerox the original, and run that through a scanner (for a long paper, if you have access to a good library, yes, I know). thanks! Jonathan 2010/1/12 Christian Coseru > Birgit Kellner wrote: > > > I gather on a recent Mac OS, there should already be tools available in > the operating system for the job. > > > > I trust the real geeks on the list can provide further advice :-) > > > Thankfully, the real geeks at Apple have made it easy for those of us using > Macs. > > It's pretty simple on the Mac (at least if your running a recent OS, 10.5x > or 10.6). Download all the JPEG files with the wget command as Birgit > suggested. > > In Finder navigate to the directory where the image files are stored, then > simply do a Select All (? A) and Copy (? A). > > Now open your Preview application and go to File > New from Clipboard (? N) > and voil?! All the image files have been added to an untitled document, > which you now can save as a PDF file. > > Best, > Christian > > > Christian Coseru, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Philosophy > College of Charleston > 66 George Street > Charleston, SC 29424 > > Office: > Phone: 843 953-1935 > Facsimile: 843 953-6388 > Email: coseruc at cofc.edu > > On Jan 12, 2010, at 4:11 PM, Birgit Kellner wrote: > > > Jonathan Silk wrote: > >> I have a feeling I may be an idiot (well, I'm sure in other respects, > but in > >> this case...): I learn from Indologica that we can find online the > >> *Abhandlungen > >> der K?niglichen Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin. * > >> > >> When I go, however, for example to > >> > http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/bibliothek-digital/digitalequellen/schriften/anzeige/index_html?band=07-abh/1844&seite:int=711 > , > >> I can only get one page at a time; is there not a way to download an > entire > >> article? > >> > >> Thanks for your advice! Jonathan > >> > >> > > The interface unfortunately doesn't offer the possibility to download > several pages at once (as a PDF, for instance), no. > > > > There is a workaround, but it's a bit time-consuming: > > > > 1.) Click on a page image with the desired size ("large", for instance). > You see the JPG file and get a link like this in the browser's URL line: > > > > > http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/thumbnail?band=07-abh/1844&aufloesung:int=2&img=DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/00000002.jpg&seite:int=2 > > > > This means that the image file is stored in this directory: > > > > http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/ > > > > 2.) If you have the wonderful little tool wget installed, run > > > > wget -r http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/ > > > > from the command line. > > > > This gets you all images for the volume in question to a local folder. > You can then create a PDF file with these images (even run OCR on them > before), with, for instance Adobe Acrobat Pro (on Windows); I gather on a > recent Mac OS, there should already be tools available in the operating > system for the job. > > > > I trust the real geeks on the list can provide further advice :-) > > > > Best, > > > > b > -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From july2307 at YANDEX.RU Tue Jan 12 20:44:52 2010 From: july2307 at YANDEX.RU (=?utf-8?B?0JTQvNC40YLRgNC40Lk=?=) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 23:44:52 +0300 Subject: Abhandlungen der K=?utf-8?Q?=C3=B6niglichen?= Akademie der Wissensch aft en zu Berlin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088187.23782.11438470051835935515.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 844 Lines: 24 Jonathan, use keys above the image of page: + 1 - the following page, + 5 - the fifth page after chosen, etc. As it is a pictures (jpg format) can be looked and copied only one by one. Greetings from Moscow Dmitry N.Lelioukhine Oriental Institute 12.01.10, 19:37, "Jonathan Silk" : > I have a feeling I may be an idiot (well, I'm sure in other respects, but in > this case...): I learn from Indologica that we can find online the > *Abhandlungen > der K?niglichen Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin. * > > When I go, however, for example to > http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/bibliothek-digital/digitalequellen/schriften/anzeige/index_html?band=07-abh/1844&seite:int=711, > I can only get one page at a time; is there not a way to download an entire > article? > > Thanks for your advice! Jonathan > > From juergen.neuss at FU-BERLIN.DE Wed Jan 13 08:07:40 2010 From: juergen.neuss at FU-BERLIN.DE (=?utf-8?Q?J=C3=BCrgen_Neuss?=) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 10 09:07:40 +0100 Subject: Abhandlungen der K=?utf-8?Q?=C3=B6niglichen?= Akademie der Wissenschaften zu B erlin In-Reply-To: <92710738-1263337419-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1029203529-@bda840.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <161227088205.23782.278812934656624651.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 664 Lines: 26 dear colleagues, for those, who use firefox as a webbrowser, the add-on DownThemAll (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/201) maybe of use in this and similar cases. this is platform independent i think. as in the present case, you may have to switch to the rootfolder, (here: http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/) where you then can download the whole volume in one go. greetings jn -- ???????????????????????????????????????????????? Dr. J?rgen Neu? Freie Universit?t Berlin Institut f?r die Sprachen und Kulturen S?dasiens K?nigin-Luise-Str. 34 a D-14195 Berlin ?????????????????????????? juergen.neuss at fu-berlin.de From axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE Wed Jan 13 09:35:27 2010 From: axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE (Axel Michaels) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 10 09:35:27 +0000 Subject: New publication Message-ID: <161227088207.23782.13045471110329879428.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 248 Lines: 10 fyi: Bhima Bhoi: Verses from the Void Mystic Poetry of an Oriya Saint (With CD), Ed. by Bettina Baumer and Johannes Beltz New Delhi: Manohar, 2010 (1st edition) ISBN 9788173048135 Rs 995.00 (Hardbound), 407 p. Best greetings Axel Michaels From nlpdept at YAHOO.CO.IN Wed Jan 13 13:49:02 2010 From: nlpdept at YAHOO.CO.IN (Srinivasa Varakhedi) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 10 19:19:02 +0530 Subject: Contact of Prof. Deepak Sharma, USA (Madhva Vedanta) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088209.23782.285546874395247253.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 240 Lines: 13 Dear Members, Please write to me if anybody of you have contact of Dr.Deepak Sharma USA who worked on Madhva Vedanta. regards, shrivara The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From jemhouben at GMAIL.COM Thu Jan 14 01:32:50 2010 From: jemhouben at GMAIL.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 10 02:32:50 +0100 Subject: all (almost) you ever wanted to know about indian alchemy Message-ID: <161227088212.23782.13928690989700373029.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1827 Lines: 57 As Louis Renou and Jean Filliozat clearly understood long ago in 1953, indian studies and indology is much in need of "r?pertoires d?crivant le vocabulaire propre ? telle ou telle des grandes disciplines qui composent l'indianisme classique" (avant-propos to Collection de vocabulaires techniques du sanskrit in vol. 1: Vocabulaire du rituel v?dique). One of these grand disciplines is indian alchemy for which now, finally, a woerterbuch of technical terms is available. Author: Oliver Hellwig. Title: Woerterbuch der mittelalterlichen indischen Alchemie. (eJIM supplements 2) Eelde: Barkhuis, 2009. Between 900 and 1500 C.E., the knowledge of Indian alchemy was codified in a group of Sanskrit texts that deal with the ideas and the methods of this scientific tradition. The dict- ionary explains about 400 technical terms and names of sub- stances that are mentioned in these texts. Apart from trans- lations of central passages of the alchemical treatises the dictionary offers an extensive collection of texts references, which makes it posible to examine the intellec3tual cross- links in the alchemical tradition in detail. The dictionary is supplemented by indices of Sanskrit terms as well as of text references and topics. *** eJIM - the eJournal of Indian Medicine - has just published eJIM Supplement 2: Oliver Hellwig W?rterbuch der mittelalterlichen indischen Alchemie Please visit our website at www.indianmedicine.nl. eJIM is an Open Access publication and makes no charge either to authors or to readers. Users have to register if they want to read the full articles. Registration is free and carries no obligations. Registered users will be notified by email on publication of an issue of the journal. eJIM currently has around 370 registered readers. *** (apologies for cross-posting) From heike.moser at UNI-TUEBINGEN.DE Thu Jan 14 09:22:37 2010 From: heike.moser at UNI-TUEBINGEN.DE (Heike Moser) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 10 10:22:37 +0100 Subject: Wayne Howard Message-ID: <161227088214.23782.7644482870913610366.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 794 Lines: 31 Dear listmembers, I am searching for the email-address, postal address and / or phone-number of WAYNE HOWARD. He has published books and articles about Samavedic Chant (1977), Vedic Recitation in Varanasi and The Development of the Samavedic Notatian of the Jaiminiyas. Thanks and best regards, Heike Moser *************** Dr. Heike Moser *************** Eberhard-Karls-Universitaet Tuebingen Asien-Orient-Institut (AOI) Abteilung fuer Indologie und Vergleichende Religionswissenschaft Gartenstr. 19 72074 Tuebingen / Germany Tel: ++49-(0)7071-2974005 Fax: ++49-(0)7071-292675 ***** Marktgasse 2 72070 Tuebingen / Germany Tel: ++49-(0)7071-147993 Mobile: ++49-(0)176-20030066 Fax: ++49-(0)3212-1084518 *************** http://homepages.uni-tuebingen.de/heike.moser/ *************** From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Thu Jan 14 11:29:45 2010 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 10 11:29:45 +0000 Subject: wget (was: Re: Abhandlungen der K=?utf-8?Q?=C3=B6nigliche?= n Akademie der Wissensch aften zu Berli) In-Reply-To: <4B4CE59A.8010502@univie.ac.at> Message-ID: <161227088218.23782.15369206476199352646.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3048 Lines: 90 Birgit is quite right about the value of wget. It's an amazing little tool. I use it routinely to get books from the Digital Library of India, where texts are presented only as individual pages. Until about a year ago, one could use the "-r" recursion setting of wget to fetch a whole directory-full of files in one go. Then the DLI disabled that feature. So now one has to issue a wget command for each page. But it's easy to do with a small bash script like this: ---------- cut here ----------- #!/bin/sh # fetch Kapadia_Desc.Cat.Govt.Colls.MSS.BORI-Jaina # Literature and Philosophy XIX.1 Svetambara Works_1957 for i in {00000001..397..1} do wget http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/data/upload/0048/903/PTIFF/$i.tif done ---------- cut here ----------- The magic number "371" is the number of pages in the book, which DLI tells you. In Firefox, you can find out the directory in which a book's TIFF files live by loading a page of the book and then hitting Tools/Page Info and selecting "media". Bash is the default shell in Linux; it's also available to Windows users by installing the excellent Cygwin. Best, Dominik On Tue, 12 Jan 2010, Birgit Kellner wrote: > Jonathan Silk wrote: > > I have a feeling I may be an idiot (well, I'm sure in other respects, but in > > this case...): I learn from Indologica that we can find online the > > *Abhandlungen > > der K?niglichen Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin. * > > > > When I go, however, for example to > > http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/bibliothek-digital/digitalequellen/schriften/anzeige/index_html?band=07-abh/1844&seite:int=711, > > I can only get one page at a time; is there not a way to download an entire > > article? > > > > Thanks for your advice! Jonathan > > > > > The interface unfortunately doesn't offer the possibility to download > several pages at once (as a PDF, for instance), no. > > There is a workaround, but it's a bit time-consuming: > > 1.) Click on a page image with the desired size ("large", for instance). > You see the JPG file and get a link like this in the browser's URL line: > > http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/thumbnail?band=07-abh/1844&aufloesung:int=2&img=DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/00000002.jpg&seite:int=2 > > This means that the image file is stored in this directory: > > http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/ > > 2.) If you have the wonderful little tool wget installed, run > > wget -r http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/ > > from the command line. > > This gets you all images for the volume in question to a local folder. > You can then create a PDF file with these images (even run OCR on them > before), with, for instance Adobe Acrobat Pro (on Windows); I gather on > a recent Mac OS, there should already be tools available in the > operating system for the job. > > I trust the real geeks on the list can provide further advice :-) > > Best, > > b > -- -- After nearly 25 years, I'm phasing out this UCL email account. Please switch over to using the email address wujastyk at gmail.com From asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI Thu Jan 14 11:08:45 2010 From: asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI (Asko Parpola) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 10 13:08:45 +0200 Subject: Wayne Howard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088216.23782.18192890702765534986.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1109 Lines: 46 Dear Heike, Wayne's coordinates are as follows: 309 Shirley Avenue, Winona, Mississippi 38967-2011 USA. Telephone: +1-662-283-2110 e-mail: dwhoward at cableone.net With best regards, Asko Parpola Quoting "Heike Moser" : > Dear listmembers, > > I am searching for the email-address, postal address and / or phone-number > of WAYNE HOWARD. He has published books and articles about Samavedic Chant > (1977), Vedic Recitation in Varanasi and The Development of the Samavedic > Notatian of the Jaiminiyas. > > Thanks and best regards, > Heike Moser > > > *************** > Dr. Heike Moser > *************** > Eberhard-Karls-Universitaet Tuebingen > Asien-Orient-Institut (AOI) > Abteilung fuer Indologie und Vergleichende Religionswissenschaft > Gartenstr. 19 > 72074 Tuebingen / Germany > Tel: ++49-(0)7071-2974005 Fax: ++49-(0)7071-292675 > ***** > Marktgasse 2 > 72070 Tuebingen / Germany > Tel: ++49-(0)7071-147993 Mobile: ++49-(0)176-20030066 > Fax: ++49-(0)3212-1084518 > *************** > http://homepages.uni-tuebingen.de/heike.moser/ > *************** > > From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Thu Jan 14 15:05:06 2010 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 10 16:05:06 +0100 Subject: GRETIL update #363 Message-ID: <161227088220.23782.10846614564799257836.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 815 Lines: 30 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Jayatirtha: Nyayasudha, Adhyaya 1 (revised) Jayatirtha: Nyayasudha, Adhyaya 2, Pada 1 (revised) Jayatirtha: Nyayasudha, Adhyaya 2, Pada 2 __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Fri Jan 15 15:50:16 2010 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 10 15:50:16 +0000 Subject: Fwd: Query on Gandhi (fwd) Message-ID: <161227088222.23782.16414447017488020613.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 663 Lines: 29 >?From Enrica Garzilli : ************************************************************************ Sorry for cross posting. Dear All, As far as I know Mahadav Desai, Gandhi's secretary, translated the autobiography of Mahatma from gujarati. Anyway, in some Italian book I read that the English translation was made by Pyarelal Nayyar (Gandhi's doctor), Mirabehn, Srinivasa Sastri & the Italian Consul Gino Scarpa. Is that true? I mean, what is true? Do they refer to the longer and shorter version of the autobiography? Thank you for your answer. Happy New Year, Dr. Enrica Garzilli Asiatica Association http://asiatica.org From avandergeer at PLANET.NL Mon Jan 18 15:22:58 2010 From: avandergeer at PLANET.NL (Alexandra Vandergeer) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 10 16:22:58 +0100 Subject: Ramayana causeway Message-ID: <161227088227.23782.12331886599702912147.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 593 Lines: 8 Does anybody know of a relief or other work of art depicting the moment of the Ramayana causeway episode where the Fish Princess Pravarasena emerges or stands ashore? This particular moment seems to have been captured in Southeast Asia, but what about South Asia? Till now, I found only a Hoysala relief with Rama aiming his arrow at a fish 'above' (=in the distant) him, but whether this is the princess or stands for the fish as her people is unclear. A female figure stands to the right of Rama, maybe she is the princess, maybe not. Alexandra van der Geer University of Athens Greece From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Jan 18 15:51:03 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 10 16:51:03 +0100 Subject: Report on the accident of Munishri Jambuvijayji and colleagues Message-ID: <161227088229.23782.13997710969637971854.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 716 Lines: 24 Dear colleagues, A "Report on the accident of Param Pujya Munishri Jambuvijayji Maharaj Saheb" by Hiroko Matsuoka has been posted to the "Members' queries and information" section of the INDOLOGY website, http://indology.info See: http://indology.info/email/email-members.shtml It is a PDF file (600kb). Ms Matsuoka was in the harrowing situation of being one of the party travelling with Jambuvijayaji and his colleagues at the time of the accident, and she arrived on the scene less than an hour after the event, and before the arrival of the police. Ms Matsuoka has granted permission for her account to be shared on the internet with members of the INDOLOGY list. Dominik Wujastyk INDOLOGY website From mkmfolk at GMAIL.COM Mon Jan 18 14:57:24 2010 From: mkmfolk at GMAIL.COM (Mahendra Kumar Mishra) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 10 20:27:24 +0530 Subject: Lokaratna Vol - II 2009 Message-ID: <161227088224.23782.5997754460467244781.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 588 Lines: 22 Dear All, Kindly find here with a e journal on folklore ( Lokaratna ) from Folklreo Foundation, Orissa. The latest issue of Lokaratna for 2009 is available in our journal portal. The complete journal can viewed by using the following link: http://www.indianfolklore.org/journals/index.php/Lok/index Hope you will enjoy it . with best regards, Mahendra Mishra -- Dr Mahendra Kumar Mishra State SC/ST and Minority Education Coordinator, Unit-V OPEPA Residential Address: D-9 Flat Kalpana Area Bhubaneswar 751014,India phone 91+674-2310167(r) 094376-36436(m) From mkmfolk at GMAIL.COM Wed Jan 20 02:33:50 2010 From: mkmfolk at GMAIL.COM (Mahendra Kumar Mishra) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 10 08:03:50 +0530 Subject: E journal on India folklore Message-ID: <161227088232.23782.14244691926974795705.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 535 Lines: 20 Following is the link to a folklore e journal that is coming out from Orissa by Folklore Foundation. It is a new effort.I hope that you will kindly appreciate the work. Waiting to your kind sugestion and good will with bestregards, mahendra http://www.indianfolklore.org/journals/index.php/Lok/index -- Dr Mahendra Kumar Mishra State SC/ST and Minority Education Coordinator, Unit-V OPEPA Residential Address: D-9 Flat Kalpana Area Bhubaneswar 751014,India phone 91+674-2310167(r) 094376-36436(m) From pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK Wed Jan 20 20:37:32 2010 From: pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK (Peter Flugel) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 10 20:37:32 +0000 Subject: JAINA YOGA, SOAS 18-19 MARCH 2010 Message-ID: <161227088234.23782.5114898724392314694.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2519 Lines: 162 *JAINA YOGA* *12th Jaina Studies Workshop at SOAS* * * *The 10th Annual Jain Lecture* Thursday, 18th March 2010 18.00-19.30 Brunei Gallery Lecture Theatre 19.30 Reception Brunei Gallery Suite Sagarmal Jain (P?r?van?th Vidy?p??h, V?r??as?) *The Historical Development of the Jaina-Yoga System and the Impact of other Indian Yoga Systems on it: A Comparative and Critical Study* *Workshop* * * Friday, 19th March 2009 9.00, Brunei Gallery Lecture Theatre 9.00 Tea and Coffee 9.15 Welcome 9.30 Olle Qvarnstr?m (Lund University) *The Concept of Yoga in Jainism* 10.00 Bansidhar Bhatt (University of M?nster) *Study in Meditational Techniques in Early Jainism* 10.30 Samani Chaitypragya & Samani Rohinipragya (Jain Vishva Bharati University) *The Concept of ?Sandhi? In Jain Scriptures - A Hermeneutic Approach* * * 11.00 Tea & Coffee 11.30 John Cort (Denison University) *When will I meet such a Guru? Images of the Yog? in Digambara Hymns* 12.00 Johannes Bronkhorst (University of Laussane) *Kundakunda versus S??khya on the Soul* 12.30 Discussion ** * * 13.00 Lunch: Brunei Gallery Suite 14.00 Christopher Chapple (Loyola Marymount University) *The Jaina Yogas of Haribhadra* 14.30 Jefferey Long *Ya?ovijaya?s View of Yoga* * * 15.00 Piotr Balcerowicz (University of Warsaw) *Extrasensory Perception (yogi-pratyak?a) in Jainism and its Soteriological * *Implications* 15.30 Tea & Coffee** 16.00 Andrea R. Jain (Rice University)** *Prek?? Dhy?na: A Jain Form of Modern Yoga* 16.30 Smita Kothari (Toronto University) *D**?**na and Dhy**?**na in Jaina Yoga* 17.00 Jason Birch (Oxford University) *Universalist and** Missionary Jainism: Jain Yoga of the Ter?panth? Tradition* 17.30 Discussion 18.00 Final Remarks ALL WELCOME ! (No registration necessary) The Conference is Co-Organised by SOAS, Lund University, Layola University Los Angeles, and the Victoria and Albert Museum in London. For further information contact: Olle Qvarnstr?m: Olle.Qvarnstrom at teol.lu.se Christopher Chapple: cchapple at lmu.edu Jane Savory, SOAS Centres Office: js64 at soas.ac.uk -- Dr Peter Fl?gel Chair, Centre of Jaina Studies Department of the Study of Religions Faculty of Arts and Humanities School of Oriental and African Studies University of London Thornhaugh Street Russell Square London WC1H OXG Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776 E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies From Olle.Qvarnstrom at TEOL.LU.SE Wed Jan 20 20:45:06 2010 From: Olle.Qvarnstrom at TEOL.LU.SE (=?utf-8?Q?Olle_Qvarnstr=C3=B6m?=) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 10 21:45:06 +0100 Subject: SV: JAINA YOGA, SOAS 18-19 MARCH 2010 In-Reply-To: <3bb1cb801001201237s61c564e5s54e003e19fa104e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227088237.23782.16545979318604385093.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2842 Lines: 173 I could not reach Jason but may be just The Jain Yoga of the Ter?panth? Tradition* ________________________________________ Fr?n: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] för Peter Flugel [pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK] Skickat: den 20 januari 2010 21:37 Till: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk ?mne: JAINA YOGA, SOAS 18-19 MARCH 2010 *JAINA YOGA* *12th Jaina Studies Workshop at SOAS* * * *The 10th Annual Jain Lecture* Thursday, 18th March 2010 18.00-19.30 Brunei Gallery Lecture Theatre 19.30 Reception Brunei Gallery Suite Sagarmal Jain (P?r?van?th Vidy?p??h, V?r??as?) *The Historical Development of the Jaina-Yoga System and the Impact of other Indian Yoga Systems on it: A Comparative and Critical Study* *Workshop* * * Friday, 19th March 2009 9.00, Brunei Gallery Lecture Theatre 9.00 Tea and Coffee 9.15 Welcome 9.30 Olle Qvarnstr?m (Lund University) *The Concept of Yoga in Jainism* 10.00 Bansidhar Bhatt (University of M?nster) *Study in Meditational Techniques in Early Jainism* 10.30 Samani Chaitypragya & Samani Rohinipragya (Jain Vishva Bharati University) *The Concept of ?Sandhi? In Jain Scriptures - A Hermeneutic Approach* * * 11.00 Tea & Coffee 11.30 John Cort (Denison University) *When will I meet such a Guru? Images of the Yog? in Digambara Hymns* 12.00 Johannes Bronkhorst (University of Laussane) *Kundakunda versus S??khya on the Soul* 12.30 Discussion ** * * 13.00 Lunch: Brunei Gallery Suite 14.00 Christopher Chapple (Loyola Marymount University) *The Jaina Yogas of Haribhadra* 14.30 Jefferey Long *Ya?ovijaya?s View of Yoga* * * 15.00 Piotr Balcerowicz (University of Warsaw) *Extrasensory Perception (yogi-pratyak?a) in Jainism and its Soteriological * *Implications* 15.30 Tea & Coffee** 16.00 Andrea R. Jain (Rice University)** *Prek?? Dhy?na: A Jain Form of Modern Yoga* 16.30 Smita Kothari (Toronto University) *D**?**na and Dhy**?**na in Jaina Yoga* 17.00 Jason Birch (Oxford University) *Universalist and** Missionary Jainism: Jain Yoga of the Ter?panth? Tradition* 17.30 Discussion 18.00 Final Remarks ALL WELCOME ! (No registration necessary) The Conference is Co-Organised by SOAS, Lund University, Layola University Los Angeles, and the Victoria and Albert Museum in London. For further information contact: Olle Qvarnstr?m: Olle.Qvarnstrom at teol.lu.se Christopher Chapple: cchapple at lmu.edu Jane Savory, SOAS Centres Office: js64 at soas.ac.uk -- Dr Peter Fl?gel Chair, Centre of Jaina Studies Department of the Study of Religions Faculty of Arts and Humanities School of Oriental and African Studies University of London Thornhaugh Street Russell Square London WC1H OXG Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776 E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies From pankajaindia at GMAIL.COM Thu Jan 21 14:04:35 2010 From: pankajaindia at GMAIL.COM (Pankaj Jain) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 10 14:04:35 +0000 Subject: Asia's Biggest Literature Festival Message-ID: <161227088239.23782.11340316306750477669.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 473 Lines: 13 http://www.hindustantimes.com/Come-ye-all-to-Asia-s-biggest-literature-fest/H1-Article1-499984.aspx -------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Pankaj Jain पंकज ज&#2376;न Teaching Assistant Professor Department of Foreign Languages and Literatures Department of Philosophy and Religious Studies Science, Technology & Society Program North Carolina State University http://fll.chass.ncsu.edu/faculty_staff/pjain5 From birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT Thu Jan 21 16:48:04 2010 From: birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Birgit Kellner) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 10 17:48:04 +0100 Subject: Job: assistant / lecturer in Buddhist Studies, University of Heidelberg Message-ID: <161227088241.23782.10442195816387636415.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3560 Lines: 101 Dear colleagues, find below a job advertisement for an assistant / lecturer in Buddhist Studies from the University of Heidelberg, Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context". To ensure wide circulation, I would like to ask you to kindly forward this advertisement to potential applicants. PDFs for departmental bulletin boards and the like are available for download: English: http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/fileadmin/Documents/Job_Announcements/100121_Assistant-Lecturer_Kellner.pdf German: http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/fileadmin/Documents/Job_Announcements/100121_akademMitarbeiter_Kellner.pdf With best wishes, and apologies for cross-posting, Birgit Kellner ----------------------------------------------- The Cluster of Excellence ?Asia and Europe in a Global Context?, University of Heidelberg (_www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de _) is seeking to employ an *Assistant / Lecturer* *(TV-L 13)* *in Buddhist Studies with an area focus on South Asia and Tibet* The position is initially filled for three years, with optional extension. The position should be filled by 1 October 2010 latest. It is part of the Cluster of Excellence ?Asia and Europe in a Global Context: Asymmetries of Cultural Flows,? funded by the German Federal Excellence Initiative. The salary corresponds to level TVL-13 of the German public service salary scale. The assistant / lecturer is expected to teach in the framework of bachelor and master programs (one course per semester), to support the professor for Buddhist Studies in research, teaching and supervision of students, and to assist in organizational and administrative affairs. The successful candidate has completed (preferably with PhD) a program in Buddhist Studies with an area focus in South Asia and Tibet and has excellent command of Sanskrit and Classical Tibetan. German is not required but German language classes are available. The candidate is capable to work in a team and has didactic qualifications. Computer literacy appropriate to the field is a prerequisite. The candidate is willing to engage with a transcultural research approach, and to actively participate in the conception of digital resources (especially terminological databases). The candidate is also willing to acquire the necessary basic technical competence for the latter, if needed. Please submit a CV with publication list, copies of university grade transcripts and a sketch of current and future research projects (2-3 pages) preferably by email (exclusively as one PDF document, no further attachments please!) to _kellner at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de _ or per mail to the address given below. In the latter case please only send photocopies; originals will not be returned. In cases of equal qualification, aptitude and expertise of the applicants, female applicants will be given preferential treatment for those salary groups and careers in which females are underrepresented, unless there are preponderant reasons to give preference to another applicant. Physically challenged candidates with similar qualifications will be given special consideration. Application deadline is 1 March 2010; interviews will be scheduled for the end of March or beginning of April. Dr. Birgit Kellner Cluster ?Asia and Europe? Buddhist Studies Karl Jaspers Centre for Advanced Transcultural Studies Geb?ude 4400 Vo?str. 2 69115 Heidelberg From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Fri Jan 22 09:28:28 2010 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 10 10:28:28 +0100 Subject: GRETIL update#364 Message-ID: <161227088243.23782.14238032256002864310.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 814 Lines: 31 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Badarayana: Brahmasutra (alternative version, revised) Jayatirtha: Nyayasudha, Adhyaya 2 (completed) Madhva: Anuvyakhyana (revised) __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From mhgorisse at GMAIL.COM Fri Jan 22 15:03:52 2010 From: mhgorisse at GMAIL.COM (=?utf-8?Q?Marie-H=C3=A9l=C3=A8ne_Gorisse?=) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 10 16:03:52 +0100 Subject: Could the future Sankhacakravarti please stand up? Message-ID: <161227088246.23782.11246297523234760291.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 810 Lines: 23 Dear members of the Indology list, I am working on Prabh?candra's *Prameyakamalam?rtanda* and this author, as well as other Jain and Buddhist authors (notably Siddhasena Div?kara in his Ny?y?vat?ra and Moks?karagupta in his Bauddhatarkabh?s?) are using the expression "Sankhacakravarti" to denote a future agent (especially in the argument of the three times). Unfortunately, I have not managed to find any tracks of this Sankhacakravarti neither in Jain mythology, nor in Buddhist cosmology. May I ask you if anyone have heard about such a character? If it might be of some help, the one standing for past agents in the * Prameyakamalam?rtanda* is R?vana. Thank you very much!! Best regards, Marie-H?l?ne Gorisse http://stl.recherche.univ-lille3.fr/sitespersonnels/rahman/rahmanequipegorisse2006.html From selwyn at NTLWORLD.COM Fri Jan 22 16:33:50 2010 From: selwyn at NTLWORLD.COM (L.S. Cousins) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 10 16:33:50 +0000 Subject: Could the future Sankhacakravarti please stand up? In-Reply-To: <682e6ebc1001220703i4a2900eaq9426a635c0c4bb8b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227088248.23782.16380688641514015386.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 994 Lines: 29 The cakkavatti(n) Sa?kha is the Universal Monarch at the time of the next Buddha: Metteyya/Maitreya. See D?ghanik?ya III 75f. Lance Cousins > Dear members of the Indology list, > > I am working on Prabh?candra's *Prameyakamalam?rtanda* and this author, as > well as other Jain and Buddhist authors (notably Siddhasena Div?kara in his > Ny?y?vat?ra and Moks?karagupta in his Bauddhatarkabh?s?) are using the > expression "Sankhacakravarti" to denote a future agent (especially in the > argument of the three times). > > Unfortunately, I have not managed to find any tracks of this > Sankhacakravarti neither in Jain mythology, nor in Buddhist cosmology. > > May I ask you if anyone have heard about such a character? > If it might be of some help, the one standing for past agents in the * > Prameyakamalam?rtanda* is R?vana. > > Thank you very much!! > > Best regards, > Marie-H?l?ne Gorisse > http://stl.recherche.univ-lille3.fr/sitespersonnels/rahman/rahmanequipegorisse2006.html > From mhgorisse at GMAIL.COM Fri Jan 22 17:38:24 2010 From: mhgorisse at GMAIL.COM (=?utf-8?Q?Marie-H=C3=A9l=C3=A8ne_Gorisse?=) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 10 18:38:24 +0100 Subject: Could the future Sankhacakravarti please stand up? In-Reply-To: <4B59D36E.5030407@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <161227088251.23782.13830444789071707624.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1135 Lines: 42 Thank you so much! Bests, Marie-H?l?ne Gorisse 2010/1/22 L.S. Cousins > The cakkavatti(n) Sa?kha is the Universal Monarch at the time of the next > Buddha: Metteyya/Maitreya. See D?ghanik?ya III 75f. > > Lance Cousins > > Dear members of the Indology list, >> >> I am working on Prabh?candra's *Prameyakamalam?rtanda* and this author, as >> well as other Jain and Buddhist authors (notably Siddhasena Div?kara in >> his >> Ny?y?vat?ra and Moks?karagupta in his Bauddhatarkabh?s?) are using the >> >> expression "Sankhacakravarti" to denote a future agent (especially in the >> argument of the three times). >> >> Unfortunately, I have not managed to find any tracks of this >> Sankhacakravarti neither in Jain mythology, nor in Buddhist cosmology. >> >> May I ask you if anyone have heard about such a character? >> If it might be of some help, the one standing for past agents in the * >> Prameyakamalam?rtanda* is R?vana. >> >> >> Thank you very much!! >> >> Best regards, >> Marie-H?l?ne Gorisse >> >> >> http://stl.recherche.univ-lille3.fr/sitespersonnels/rahman/rahmanequipegorisse2006.html >> >> > From veltsch at OEAW.AC.AT Fri Jan 22 21:10:22 2010 From: veltsch at OEAW.AC.AT (Vincent Eltschinger) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 10 22:10:22 +0100 Subject: Could the future Sankhacakravarti please stand up? In-Reply-To: <682e6ebc1001220938g2ca9c802g5c770638a187e5b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227088253.23782.10345951371183048825.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1393 Lines: 54 Dear Marie-H?l?ne, Further references (especially to the Divyaavadaana) can be found in Edgerton's Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit Dictionary (521b, s.v. 'Sa.nkha). VE > Thank you so much! > Bests, > Marie-H??l??ne Gorisse > > 2010/1/22 L.S. Cousins > >> The cakkavatti(n) Sa?? kha is the Universal Monarch at the time of the >> next >> Buddha: Metteyya/Maitreya. See D??ghanik??ya III 75f. >> >> Lance Cousins >> >> Dear members of the Indology list, >>> >>> I am working on Prabh???candra's *Prameyakamalam???rtanda* and this >>> author, as >>> well as other Jain and Buddhist authors (notably Siddhasena Div???kara >>> in >>> his >>> Ny???y???vat???ra and Moks???karagupta in his Bauddhatarkabh???s???) >>> are using the >>> >>> expression "Sankhacakravarti" to denote a future agent (especially in >>> the >>> argument of the three times). >>> >>> Unfortunately, I have not managed to find any tracks of this >>> Sankhacakravarti neither in Jain mythology, nor in Buddhist cosmology. >>> >>> May I ask you if anyone have heard about such a character? >>> If it might be of some help, the one standing for past agents in the * >>> Prameyakamalam???rtanda* is R???vana. >>> >>> >>> Thank you very much!! >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Marie-H???l???ne Gorisse >>> >>> >>> http://stl.recherche.univ-lille3.fr/sitespersonnels/rahman/rahmanequipegorisse2006.html >>> >>> >> > From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Sat Jan 23 04:16:53 2010 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 10 09:46:53 +0530 Subject: more on N=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81gar=C4=AB?= Message-ID: <161227088256.23782.5819231402123309902.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1977 Lines: 42 A note to add to the interesting exchanges about script-use and script names. There is a passage in the ?ivadharmottara that appears to recommend the copying of ?aiva literature using Nandin?gar? letters. This has hitherto been assumed (in an article by R.C. Hazra and, more recently, by Paolo Magnone) to be a reference to the South Indian script now known as Nandin?gar?, which reached its developed form in the Vijayanagara period. m?tr?nusv?rasa?yogahrasvad?rgh?dilak?itai?| nandin?garakair var?air lekhayec chivapustakam|| 2.40|| But a Nepalese palm-leaf manuscript transmitting the ?ivadharmottara has come to light that appears to have been written at the end of the C8th or in the C9th. The passage in question is to be found in the bottom line of the bottom folio of exposure 40 of NGMPP A 12/3. (The 3rd p?da of the verse there reads nad?n?garakair var??air, but we may perhaps be justified in taking this to be a copying error.) Nandin?gar?, therefore, is not just the name of a Southern script of the Vijayanagara period; it is attested much earlier as a label for a different style of lettering. Furthermore, I think that we can assume that the script in question was a Northern one from the way the lettering is described in the previous verse. caturasrai? sama??r?air n?tisth?lair na v? k??ai?| samp?r??vayavai? snigdhair n?tivicchinnasa?hatai?|| 2.39|| Most of these qualifications could probably be interpreted to describe almost any sort of characters, but it seems to me that the instruction that they should be neither too thick nor too thin (n?tisth?lair na v? k??ai?) narrows the range of possibilities. For this, it seems to me, is very unlikely to have been a formulation chosen if the author had been thinking of a scribal tradition in which letters are incised into palm-leaves, such as we find in the Southern, Dravidian- speaking areas and along much of the Eastern littoral. Dominic Goodall From fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Jan 23 17:56:22 2010 From: fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM (Benjamin Fleming) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 10 12:56:22 -0500 Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088261.23782.1849398039574809547.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1212 Lines: 45 Dear Dominik, You should look at David Shulman's book, The Hungry God, which in addition to exploring the theme of infanticide in Indian literature, also examines, contains examples of these themes in Indian art. See:http://tinyurl.com/yds4jxt Best Wishes,Benjy -- Benjamin Fleming Visiting Scholar, Dept. of Religious Studies, University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street, Claudia Cohen Hall, #234 Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A. Telephone - 215-746-7792 http://www.benjaminfleming.com > Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 18:50:23 +0100 > From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM > Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Dear Colleagues, > > Can you point me to a scholarly discussion of this topic? What are the > earliest depictions of children in S. Asian art? What deductions can be > made about the idea of the child from any such images? What I'm thinking > about is the S. A. evidence that might inform a discussion of the "invention > of childhood". > > Best, > Dominik _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390708/direct/01/ From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU Sat Jan 23 18:54:46 2010 From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John C. Huntington) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 10 13:54:46 -0500 Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088264.23782.16379456114163896484.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1100 Lines: 42 Dear Dominik, Children occur in some numbers both on the ca 25BCE toranas of Sanchi and in early (2nd through 4th Century) Gandharan Sculpture. I can help you find some if you want, John On Jan 23, 2010, at 12:50 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > Can you point me to a scholarly discussion of this topic? What are > the > earliest depictions of children in S. Asian art? What deductions > can be > made about the idea of the child from any such images? What I'm > thinking > about is the S. A. evidence that might inform a discussion of the > "invention > of childhood". > > Best, > Dominik > > > -- > BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 990980231) is spam: > Spam: https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=990980231&m=a829a82854f1&c=s > Not spam: https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=990980231&m=a829a82854f1&c=n > Forget vote: https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=990980231&m=a829a82854f1&c=f > ------------------------------------------------------ > END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sat Jan 23 17:50:23 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 10 18:50:23 +0100 Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art Message-ID: <161227088258.23782.719317860379436982.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 347 Lines: 13 Dear Colleagues, Can you point me to a scholarly discussion of this topic? What are the earliest depictions of children in S. Asian art? What deductions can be made about the idea of the child from any such images? What I'm thinking about is the S. A. evidence that might inform a discussion of the "invention of childhood". Best, Dominik From mnstorm at MAC.COM Sun Jan 24 06:03:20 2010 From: mnstorm at MAC.COM (Mary Storm) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 10 11:33:20 +0530 Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088266.23782.18018745632494081491.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 968 Lines: 51 There are children's toys from the Indus Civilization. As for depictions of children: children with Hariti in Gandharan art. The Buddha is shown as a child in Gandharan art as well as his son Rahula, Hope this might help, Mary Mary N. Storm, Ph.D. Academic Director and Lecturer India: National Identity and the Arts and Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture SIT Study Abroad www.sit.edu F 301 Lado Sarai New Delhi 110030 Mobile +91 98106 98003 Office Landline +91 11 2437 8003 Residence Landline +91 11295 53298 On 23-Jan-10, at 11:20 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > Can you point me to a scholarly discussion of this topic? What are > the > earliest depictions of children in S. Asian art? What deductions > can be > made about the idea of the child from any such images? What I'm > thinking > about is the S. A. evidence that might inform a discussion of the > "invention > of childhood". > > Best, > Dominik From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Sun Jan 24 11:02:39 2010 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 10 12:02:39 +0100 Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088269.23782.887649501858836677.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 638 Lines: 22 Am 24.01.2010 um 07:03 schrieb Mary Storm: > There are children's toys from the Indus Civilization. As for depictions of children: children with Hariti in Gandharan art. The Buddha is shown as a child in Gandharan art as well as his son Rahula, There is a thesis on Harappan toy artefacts: Rogersdotter, Elke: The Forgotten: an Approach on Harappan Toy Artefacts. - Ume?: Faculty of Arts, Archaeology and Sami Studies, 2006 URL: All the best Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Abteilung f?r Indologie Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn From cbpicron at GMX.DE Sun Jan 24 15:21:06 2010 From: cbpicron at GMX.DE (Claudine Bautze-Picron) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 10 16:21:06 +0100 Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088271.23782.7869536989488981197.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1460 Lines: 56 Dear Colleague, The following references could be of interest to you: 1) Vincent Lef?vre, "L'enfant-mod?le dans la sculpture d'Inde du Sud, des Pallava ? Vijayanagar", in: Les ?ges de la vie dans le monde indien, Actes des journ?es d??tude de Lyon (22-23 juin 2000) ?dit?s par Christine Chojnacki, Paris: Diffusion De Boccard, 2001, pp. 217-231. (Lyon: Centre d??tudes et de Recherches sur l?Occident Romain de l?Universit? Lyon 3, Collection du Centre d??tudes et de Recherches sur l?Occident Romain, Nouvelle s?rie n? 24). (+ some more papers on childhood). 2) ?dith Parlier, "L?image de l?enfant dans l?iconographie bouddhique de l?Inde", in : Enfances, ?d. Flora Blanchon, Asie n?4, 1996, p.9-40. And see http://www.creops.paris4.sorbonne.fr/publications_fiche.php?id=5 for the contents of this volume. Best, Claudine Bautze-Picron -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk Sent: Samstag, 23. Januar 2010 18:50 To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art Dear Colleagues, Can you point me to a scholarly discussion of this topic? What are the earliest depictions of children in S. Asian art? What deductions can be made about the idea of the child from any such images? What I'm thinking about is the S. A. evidence that might inform a discussion of the "invention of childhood". Best, Dominik From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Jan 24 16:52:42 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 10 17:52:42 +0100 Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art In-Reply-To: <003001ca9d08$dc6c6170$95452450$@de> Message-ID: <161227088274.23782.3127566420298215690.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2553 Lines: 88 With many thanks indeed to Claudine Bautze-Picron for the references below, which I didn't know, and to all the other colleagues who have offered useful pointers and suggestions. I realize I should have mentioned the genesis of my query. The Sanskrit texts on Graha??nti, or the pacification of demons, are commonly cast as discourses about how these demons attach children and make them ill. For example, the Ravanakum?ratantra, that was studied by Filliozat in the 40s. However, when one looks at illustrated Graha??nti MSS (Wellcome MS Indic alpha 1936, 15th century Nepal, for example, see here), the demons are depicted attacking what appear to be adults. I always assumed the victims were adult, but my students raised the question with me that perhaps the victims were intended to be children, but just looked like adults to us. Dominik Wujastyk 2010/1/24 Claudine Bautze-Picron > Dear Colleague, > > > > > > The following references could be of interest to you: > > > > 1) Vincent Lef?vre, "L'enfant-mod?le dans la sculpture d'Inde du Sud, des > Pallava ? Vijayanagar", in: Les ?ges de la vie dans le monde indien, Actes > des journ?es d??tude de Lyon (22-23 juin 2000) ?dit?s par Christine > Chojnacki, Paris: Diffusion De Boccard, 2001, pp. 217-231. (Lyon: Centre > d??tudes et de Recherches sur l?Occident Romain de l?Universit? Lyon 3, > Collection du Centre d??tudes et de Recherches sur l?Occident Romain, > Nouvelle s?rie n? 24). (+ some more papers on childhood). > > > > 2) ?dith Parlier, "L?image de l?enfant dans l?iconographie bouddhique de > l?Inde", in : Enfances, ?d. Flora Blanchon, Asie n?4, 1996, p.9-40. And see > http://www.creops.paris4.sorbonne.fr/publications_fiche.php?id=5 for the > contents of this volume. > > > > > > Best, > > Claudine Bautze-Picron > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik > Wujastyk > Sent: Samstag, 23. Januar 2010 18:50 > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art > > > > Dear Colleagues, > > > > Can you point me to a scholarly discussion of this topic? What are the > > earliest depictions of children in S. Asian art? What deductions can be > > made about the idea of the child from any such images? What I'm thinking > > about is the S. A. evidence that might inform a discussion of the > "invention > > of childhood". > > > > Best, > > Dominik > From asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI Sun Jan 24 18:09:29 2010 From: asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI (Asko Parpola) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 10 20:09:29 +0200 Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088277.23782.15366752496518153498.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3201 Lines: 105 Dear Dominik, On the historical background of demons attacking children and their connection with the planets (Sanskrit graha), and cults purporting getting children, see my book "Deciphering the Indus script" (Cambridge 1994, reprinted in paperback in 2009), especially pp. 225-239, and my paper "'Hind-leg' + 'Fish': Towards further understanding of the Indus script" in Scripta Vol. 1 (2009), pp. 37-76 (downloadable from www.harappa.com) With best regards, Asko Parpola Quoting "Dominik Wujastyk" : > With many thanks indeed to Claudine Bautze-Picron for the references below, > which I didn't know, and to all the other colleagues who have offered useful > pointers and suggestions. > > I realize I should have mentioned the genesis of my query. The Sanskrit > texts on Graha??nti, or the pacification of demons, are commonly cast as > discourses about how these demons attach children and make them ill. For > example, the Ravanakum?ratantra, that was studied by Filliozat in the 40s. > However, when one looks at illustrated Graha??nti MSS (Wellcome MS Indic > alpha 1936, 15th century Nepal, for example, see > here), > the demons are depicted attacking what appear to be adults. I always > assumed the victims were adult, but my students raised the question with me > that perhaps the victims were intended to be children, but just looked like > adults to us. > > Dominik Wujastyk > > 2010/1/24 Claudine Bautze-Picron > >> Dear Colleague, >> >> >> >> >> >> The following references could be of interest to you: >> >> >> >> 1) Vincent Lef?vre, "L'enfant-mod?le dans la sculpture d'Inde du Sud, des >> Pallava ? Vijayanagar", in: Les ?ges de la vie dans le monde indien, Actes >> des journ?es d??tude de Lyon (22-23 juin 2000) ?dit?s par Christine >> Chojnacki, Paris: Diffusion De Boccard, 2001, pp. 217-231. (Lyon: Centre >> d??tudes et de Recherches sur l?Occident Romain de l?Universit? Lyon 3, >> Collection du Centre d??tudes et de Recherches sur l?Occident Romain, >> Nouvelle s?rie n? 24). (+ some more papers on childhood). >> >> >> >> 2) ?dith Parlier, "L?image de l?enfant dans l?iconographie bouddhique de >> l?Inde", in : Enfances, ?d. Flora Blanchon, Asie n?4, 1996, p.9-40. And see >> http://www.creops.paris4.sorbonne.fr/publications_fiche.php?id=5 for the >> contents of this volume. >> >> >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> Claudine Bautze-Picron >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik >> Wujastyk >> Sent: Samstag, 23. Januar 2010 18:50 >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art >> >> >> >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> >> >> Can you point me to a scholarly discussion of this topic? What are the >> >> earliest depictions of children in S. Asian art? What deductions can be >> >> made about the idea of the child from any such images? What I'm thinking >> >> about is the S. A. evidence that might inform a discussion of the >> "invention >> >> of childhood". >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> Dominik >> > > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Jan 24 21:35:07 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 10 22:35:07 +0100 Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art In-Reply-To: <20100124200929.26525ndhkeuwah21@webmail.helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <161227088280.23782.4737978286516297103.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6046 Lines: 166 I have read some of the materials you mention, Asko, and thank you for the references. I look forward to digging in. One thing: Michio Yano has shown (refs. below) that "graha" in the classical ayurvedic texts almost never refers to planets. The medical discourse is about (potentially) malevolent, mostly female, sometimes bird-like, beings. They have no planetary aspect. Yano finds only three passages, interestingly all from the Susrutasamhita, in which "graha" refers to a heavenly body (Su 1.6.19, 1.32.4, 6.39.266cd-267ab, Trikamji's NS 1938 edition). Yano also analyses the history of the semantic shift of "graha", saying as you do in "Hind-leg" that the story begins with an eclipse demon. But you refer (p.50) to the "oldest Tamil and Sanskrit texts" as already referring to something heavenly. At lest for the ayurveda literature, which you discuss on p.54, I would say that the grahas are not in any association with the heavens. Your characterisation of them as malignant demons is, I think, quite right. In your book Deciphering, you discuss the medical texts without actually saying outright that you think they are talking about planets. But on p.237b you say that "there can be little doubt about the identity of Skanda-graha with the red planet Mars". To me, there can. I see nothing in the text itself that suggests this. Wider arguments from other contexts may point to Skanda=Mars, and that may illuminate subterranean connections in the ayurvedic texts for the comparativist, but the ayurvedic text itself at this point gives no hint of any planetary connection. The tradition of manuscript illustration in the medical graha??nti texts that I have studied, mainly Nepalese MSS of the 15-19 century, also gives no planetary connection. Pingree's extraordinary paper ( http://www.jstor.org/pss/751535) on the planetary images found in Wellcome MS Indic alpha 721, painted in about 1700, traces the literary history of graha??nti rituals in India to the Vaikhanasa literature of the fourth or fifth century AD (p.4). (Incidentally, Pingree also reminds us that Sphujidhvaja assigns Skanda to be the deva of the planet Mars.) But the images in Wellcome MS Indic alpha 721 are not connected with the text of that MS (Lagnacandrik?), nor are they connected in any way with ayurvedic medicine. Best, Dominik Wujastyk 1. "Calendar, Astrology, and Astronomy", in Gavin Flood (ed.), The Blackwell Companion to Hinduism, 2003. 2. "Planet Worship in Ancient India" in Hogendijk, J. P.; Plofker, K. & Yano, M. (eds.) Ketuprak??a: Studies in the History of the Exact Sciences in Honour of David Pingree, Brill, 2004, 331-48. 2010/1/24 Asko Parpola > Dear Dominik, > > On the historical background of demons attacking children and their > connection with the planets (Sanskrit graha), and cults purporting getting > children, see my book "Deciphering the Indus script" (Cambridge 1994, > reprinted in paperback in 2009), especially pp. 225-239, and my paper > "'Hind-leg' + 'Fish': Towards further understanding of the Indus script" in > Scripta Vol. 1 (2009), pp. 37-76 (downloadable from www.harappa.com) > > With best regards, Asko Parpola > > > > Quoting "Dominik Wujastyk" : > > With many thanks indeed to Claudine Bautze-Picron for the references >> below, >> which I didn't know, and to all the other colleagues who have offered >> useful >> pointers and suggestions. >> >> I realize I should have mentioned the genesis of my query. The Sanskrit >> texts on Graha??nti, or the pacification of demons, are commonly cast as >> discourses about how these demons attach children and make them ill. For >> example, the Ravanakum?ratantra, that was studied by Filliozat in the 40s. >> However, when one looks at illustrated Graha??nti MSS (Wellcome MS Indic >> alpha 1936, 15th century Nepal, for example, see >> here< >> http://medphoto.wellcome.ac.uk/indexplus/obf_images/9a/15/30a95ed38aedfd8ee660dac8b5f5.jpg >> >), >> >> the demons are depicted attacking what appear to be adults. I always >> assumed the victims were adult, but my students raised the question with >> me >> that perhaps the victims were intended to be children, but just looked >> like >> adults to us. >> >> Dominik Wujastyk >> >> 2010/1/24 Claudine Bautze-Picron >> >> Dear Colleague, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> The following references could be of interest to you: >>> >>> >>> >>> 1) Vincent Lef?vre, "L'enfant-mod?le dans la sculpture d'Inde du Sud, des >>> Pallava ? Vijayanagar", in: Les ?ges de la vie dans le monde indien, >>> Actes >>> des journ?es d??tude de Lyon (22-23 juin 2000) ?dit?s par Christine >>> Chojnacki, Paris: Diffusion De Boccard, 2001, pp. 217-231. (Lyon: Centre >>> d??tudes et de Recherches sur l?Occident Romain de l?Universit? Lyon 3, >>> Collection du Centre d??tudes et de Recherches sur l?Occident Romain, >>> Nouvelle s?rie n? 24). (+ some more papers on childhood). >>> >>> >>> >>> 2) ?dith Parlier, "L?image de l?enfant dans l?iconographie bouddhique de >>> l?Inde", in : Enfances, ?d. Flora Blanchon, Asie n?4, 1996, p.9-40. And >>> see >>> http://www.creops.paris4.sorbonne.fr/publications_fiche.php?id=5 for the >>> contents of this volume. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Claudine Bautze-Picron >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik >>> Wujastyk >>> Sent: Samstag, 23. Januar 2010 18:50 >>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>> Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art >>> >>> >>> >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> >>> >>> Can you point me to a scholarly discussion of this topic? What are the >>> >>> earliest depictions of children in S. Asian art? What deductions can be >>> >>> made about the idea of the child from any such images? What I'm thinking >>> >>> about is the S. A. evidence that might inform a discussion of the >>> "invention >>> >>> of childhood". >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Dominik >>> >>> >> >> From fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM Mon Jan 25 05:50:01 2010 From: fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM (Benjamin Fleming) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 10 00:50:01 -0500 Subject: History and Material Culture in Asian Religion Message-ID: <161227088283.23782.16960371960057562351.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2824 Lines: 39 Dear List Members, [Apologies for cross-posting] I would like to draw your attention to an upcoming conference at theUniversity of Pennsylvania on March 21st - 22nd: History and Material Culture in Asian Religions http://www.benjaminfleming.com/material_culture/ See the current list of speakers and topics pasted below. Theconference will be open to the public. If anyone is interested inattending please contact me off-list as we would like to keep trackof our potential numbers. The conference schedule and web page will be updated in the comingweeks. More details about the precise schedule of speakers will beforthcoming. Best Wishes, Benjamin Fleming _______________________ Tentative List of Speakers and Paper Topics Kevin Bond (University of Regina)"Marketing Miracles: Buddhism, Commercialism, and Entertainment inEarly Modern Japan" Gudrun Buhnemann (University of Wisconsin-Madison) "On the Iconography and Date of the Golden Window in Patan" Shayne Clarke (McMaster University)"Motherhood amidst the Sisterhood: Reading Inscriptional Evidence inLight of Buddhist Monastic Law Codes" Benjamin Fleming (University of Pennsylvania)"Buddhists and Brahmins under the Reign of Sricandra: New Evidencefrom Copperplate Inscriptions" Shaman Hatley (Concordia University)"Goddesses in Text and Stone: Temples of the Yoginis in Light ofTantric Saiva Literature" Jinah Kim (Vanderbilt University/Institute for Advanced Study)"Animating the Dharma: 3D World of Medieval Buddhist Books in SouthAsia" Richard Mann (Carleton University)"The Rise of Mahasena: Skanda, Vishakha and Mahasena on the GoldCoinage of Huvishka" Justin McDaniel (University of Pennsylvania)"Beyond Narrative: Murals and Material Culture in Thailand" Dirk Meyer (Oxford University)"Bamboo and the Production of Philosophy: A Hypothesis about a Shiftin Writing and Thought in Early China" Jason Neelis (University of Florida)"Gandharan Materials and Manuscripts from Contact Zones betweenSouth Asia and Central Asia: Crucial Evidence for Patterns ofBuddhist Transmission" Annette Yoshiko Reed (University of Pennsylvania)"Eurasian Trade and the Connections between "West" and "East":Reconsidering Early Christian References to Asia" James Robson (Harvard University)"Things Inside of Things: On the Materials Found Inside of ChineseIcons" Tamara Sears (Yale University)"Embodying Ascetics in Early Medieval India" -- Benjamin Fleming Visiting Scholar, Dept. of Religious Studies, University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street, Claudia Cohen Hall, #234 Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A. Telephone - 215-746-7792 http://www.benjaminfleming.com _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390706/direct/01/ From fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM Mon Jan 25 16:11:09 2010 From: fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM (Benjamin Fleming) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 10 11:11:09 -0500 Subject: Formating, Spacing, etc. Message-ID: <161227088286.23782.17320210277166397534.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1062 Lines: 29 Dear List members, I am curious if anyone has suggestions for ensuring correct formating for messages to this list? I do not use an email program for my hotmail account and the lists I access through it, but send directly from my browser. Inevitably all the spacing is removed (or added in some cases) and I haven't been able to gain control over this. As in my last message about the Material Culture conference, long lists of data, spaced for readability in my original message, became conflated into a single run-on paragraph when filtered through the list. Any suggestion for fixing this issue would be greatly appreciated! Best Wishes,BF -- Benjamin Fleming Visiting Scholar, Dept. of Religious Studies, University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street, Claudia Cohen Hall, #234 Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A. Telephone - 215-746-7792 http://www.benjaminfleming.com _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390708/direct/01/ From athr at LOC.GOV Mon Jan 25 19:11:06 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 10 14:11:06 -0500 Subject: offer of book on Nepali Congress Party figure Message-ID: <161227088292.23782.13088433417018480497.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2935 Lines: 79 We have been sent 3 copies of this book, which has already been acquired by the Nepal representative for the Cooperative Acquisitions Program. If anyone at a US institution wants a copy or an extra copy for their library, please have the librarian contact me. If your library participates in the CAP a copy has presumably already been ordered for it. According to the covering letter it centers on the struggle for human rights in Pokhara. Allen >>> 1/25/2010 1:54 PM >>> LC Control No.: 2009306674 Type of Material: Book (Print, Microform, Electronic, etc.) Personal Name: Koir?al?a, R?ajendranidhi, 1951- Main Title: Samjhanai samjhan?aharu / R?ajendranidhi Koir?al?a. Edition Information: 1. samskarana. Published/Created: [Pokhara] : R?it?adev?i Koir?al?a, 2065 [2008] Description: 175 p. : ill. ; 23 cm. Summary: Memoirs of a political activist from Nepal. Notes: In Nepali. Subjects: Koir?al?a, R?ajendranidhi, 1951- Political activists--Nepal--Biography. LC Classification: DS495.652.A-ZK+ Overseas Acquisitions No.: N-N-2009-306674; 22 Reproduction No./Source: Library of Congress -- New Delhi Overseas Office Rs155.00 Geographic Area Code: a-np--- Quality Code: lcode ______________________________ -- Request in: Asian Reading Room (Jefferson, LJ150) -- Status: In Process 10-28-2009 ================================================================================ Please Note: Catalog records containing non-Roman characters (Unicode) or diacritic marks will not be emailed properly. Non-Roman characters and some diacritics will be missing from the email. We suggest that you use either "print" or "save" to capture this information in its entirety. =================================================== LIBRARY OF CONGRESS ONLINE CATALOG Library of Congress 101 Independence Ave., SE Washington, DC 20540 DO NOT REPLY to this message, Email REPLIES will NOT be answered. For questions about SEARCHING the Library of Congress Online Catalog: Contact Ask a Librarian -- http://www.loc.gov/rr/askalib/ask-digital.html DISCLAIMER: The catalog records included in this email message were searched by a researcher using the Library of Congress Online Catalog, either from a workstation in a Library reading room or from some other location. Researchers working in the Library's public reading rooms are solely responsible for the legal implications of their activities, such as copying, uploading or downloading files, and/or posting electronic mail. In its public reading rooms, the Library permits research-related email only. The Library will not assume or accept liability for any violations of these conditions by researchers. From mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU Mon Jan 25 17:05:30 2010 From: mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU (Michael Slouber) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 10 18:05:30 +0100 Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088288.23782.9350215019467550170.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3546 Lines: 104 Dear Dominik, In one Graha??nti type Newari manuscript I have a copy of (filmed as NGMPP reel no. E1689/4), there do seem to be some children depicted. You can view a figure that is very likely to be a child, while some others are more ambiguous. The lower folio shows a short and chubby figure wearing the protective anklets that Newars still put on their children to ward off harmful grahas and the like. Several of the figures in this text appear to be women, perhaps pregnant women who along with their unborn are especially vulnerable. Richard Mann's 2003 dissertation (McMaster University) "The Early Cult of Skanda in North India: From Demon to Divine Son" should be of interest if you haven't seen it already. Sincerely, Michael Slouber UC Berkeley, Universit?t Hamburg On Jan 24, 2010, at 5:52 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > With many thanks indeed to Claudine Bautze-Picron for the references below, > which I didn't know, and to all the other colleagues who have offered useful > pointers and suggestions. > > I realize I should have mentioned the genesis of my query. The Sanskrit > texts on Graha??nti, or the pacification of demons, are commonly cast as > discourses about how these demons attach children and make them ill. For > example, the Ravanakum?ratantra, that was studied by Filliozat in the 40s. > However, when one looks at illustrated Graha??nti MSS (Wellcome MS Indic > alpha 1936, 15th century Nepal, for example, see > here), > the demons are depicted attacking what appear to be adults. I always > assumed the victims were adult, but my students raised the question with me > that perhaps the victims were intended to be children, but just looked like > adults to us. > > Dominik Wujastyk > > 2010/1/24 Claudine Bautze-Picron > >> Dear Colleague, >> >> >> >> >> >> The following references could be of interest to you: >> >> >> >> 1) Vincent Lef?vre, "L'enfant-mod?le dans la sculpture d'Inde du Sud, des >> Pallava ? Vijayanagar", in: Les ?ges de la vie dans le monde indien, Actes >> des journ?es d??tude de Lyon (22-23 juin 2000) ?dit?s par Christine >> Chojnacki, Paris: Diffusion De Boccard, 2001, pp. 217-231. (Lyon: Centre >> d??tudes et de Recherches sur l?Occident Romain de l?Universit? Lyon 3, >> Collection du Centre d??tudes et de Recherches sur l?Occident Romain, >> Nouvelle s?rie n? 24). (+ some more papers on childhood). >> >> >> >> 2) ?dith Parlier, "L?image de l?enfant dans l?iconographie bouddhique de >> l?Inde", in : Enfances, ?d. Flora Blanchon, Asie n?4, 1996, p.9-40. And see >> http://www.creops.paris4.sorbonne.fr/publications_fiche.php?id=5 for the >> contents of this volume. >> >> >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> Claudine Bautze-Picron >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik >> Wujastyk >> Sent: Samstag, 23. Januar 2010 18:50 >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art >> >> >> >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> >> >> Can you point me to a scholarly discussion of this topic? What are the >> >> earliest depictions of children in S. Asian art? What deductions can be >> >> made about the idea of the child from any such images? What I'm thinking >> >> about is the S. A. evidence that might inform a discussion of the >> "invention >> >> of childhood". >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> Dominik >> From mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU Mon Jan 25 17:09:22 2010 From: mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU (Michael Slouber) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 10 18:09:22 +0100 Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art In-Reply-To: <64657425-86AF-4379-A91E-1DF2B4D3118F@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227088290.23782.149752937303531626.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3895 Lines: 115 The link appears to have not come through. Here it is in full: http://s1001.photobucket.com/albums/af140/mjslouber/?action=view¤t=example.jpg&evt=user_media_share On Jan 25, 2010, at 6:05 PM, Michael Slouber wrote: > Dear Dominik, > > In one Graha??nti type Newari manuscript I have a copy of (filmed as NGMPP reel no. E1689/4), there do seem to be some children depicted. You can view a figure that is very likely to be a child, while some others are more ambiguous. The lower folio shows a short and chubby figure wearing the protective anklets that Newars still put on their children to ward off harmful grahas and the like. Several of the figures in this text appear to be women, perhaps pregnant women who along with their unborn are especially vulnerable. > > Richard Mann's 2003 dissertation (McMaster University) "The Early Cult of Skanda in North India: From Demon to Divine Son" should be of interest if you haven't seen it already. > > Sincerely, > > Michael Slouber > UC Berkeley, Universit?t Hamburg > > > > > On Jan 24, 2010, at 5:52 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > >> With many thanks indeed to Claudine Bautze-Picron for the references below, >> which I didn't know, and to all the other colleagues who have offered useful >> pointers and suggestions. >> >> I realize I should have mentioned the genesis of my query. The Sanskrit >> texts on Graha??nti, or the pacification of demons, are commonly cast as >> discourses about how these demons attach children and make them ill. For >> example, the Ravanakum?ratantra, that was studied by Filliozat in the 40s. >> However, when one looks at illustrated Graha??nti MSS (Wellcome MS Indic >> alpha 1936, 15th century Nepal, for example, see >> here), >> the demons are depicted attacking what appear to be adults. I always >> assumed the victims were adult, but my students raised the question with me >> that perhaps the victims were intended to be children, but just looked like >> adults to us. >> >> Dominik Wujastyk >> >> 2010/1/24 Claudine Bautze-Picron >> >>> Dear Colleague, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> The following references could be of interest to you: >>> >>> >>> >>> 1) Vincent Lef?vre, "L'enfant-mod?le dans la sculpture d'Inde du Sud, des >>> Pallava ? Vijayanagar", in: Les ?ges de la vie dans le monde indien, Actes >>> des journ?es d??tude de Lyon (22-23 juin 2000) ?dit?s par Christine >>> Chojnacki, Paris: Diffusion De Boccard, 2001, pp. 217-231. (Lyon: Centre >>> d??tudes et de Recherches sur l?Occident Romain de l?Universit? Lyon 3, >>> Collection du Centre d??tudes et de Recherches sur l?Occident Romain, >>> Nouvelle s?rie n? 24). (+ some more papers on childhood). >>> >>> >>> >>> 2) ?dith Parlier, "L?image de l?enfant dans l?iconographie bouddhique de >>> l?Inde", in : Enfances, ?d. Flora Blanchon, Asie n?4, 1996, p.9-40. And see >>> http://www.creops.paris4.sorbonne.fr/publications_fiche.php?id=5 for the >>> contents of this volume. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Claudine Bautze-Picron >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik >>> Wujastyk >>> Sent: Samstag, 23. Januar 2010 18:50 >>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>> Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art >>> >>> >>> >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> >>> >>> Can you point me to a scholarly discussion of this topic? What are the >>> >>> earliest depictions of children in S. Asian art? What deductions can be >>> >>> made about the idea of the child from any such images? What I'm thinking >>> >>> about is the S. A. evidence that might inform a discussion of the >>> "invention >>> >>> of childhood". >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Dominik >>> > From conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Tue Jan 26 14:59:28 2010 From: conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Frank Conlon) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 10 06:59:28 -0800 Subject: H-ASIA: NEWS Sheldon Pollock and Hermann Kulke awarded Padma Shri Message-ID: <161227088306.23782.5905218221616448570.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1559 Lines: 44 H-ASIA January 26, 2010 Sheldon Pollock and Hermann Kulke awarded Padma Shri by Government of India ************************************************************************ From: Ananya Vajpeyi The Government of India has announced, among its Republic Day (today) honors, the award of Padma Shri to Professor Sheldon Pollock and Professor Hermann Kulke. http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?673485 "German Indologist Professor Hermann Kulke who is a regular visiting faculty to various Indian universities and Sanskrit scholar at Columbia University Sheldon I Pollock have been selected for Padma Shree in the Literature and Education category." Congratulations to Shelly and Hermann! [And thanks to Ananya Vajpeyi for bringing this to our attention. FFC] -- Ananya Vajpeyi, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of History University of Massachusetts, Boston McCormack Building, M-4-626 100, Morrissey Boulevard Boston MA 02125-3393 V: 617 287 6877 F: 617 287 6899 E: ananya.vajpeyi at umb.edu http://www.umb.edu/academics/cla/dept/history/faculty/vajpeyi.html ****************************************************************** To post to H-ASIA simply send your message to: For holidays or short absences send post to: with message: SET H-ASIA NOMAIL Upon return, send post with message SET H-ASIA MAIL H-ASIA WEB HOMEPAGE URL: http://h-net.msu.edu/~asia/ From jrasik at COLMEX.MX Tue Jan 26 14:21:51 2010 From: jrasik at COLMEX.MX (Rasik Vihari Joshi Tripathi) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 10 08:21:51 -0600 Subject: Report on the accident of Munishri Jambuvijayji and colleagues Message-ID: <161227088304.23782.2399112937976153796.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1262 Lines: 39 Dear Dominik,It seems my name has been removed from the membership list of INDILOGY. I was a member for the past several years. I would lie to a member again. Kindly help me. Rasik Vihari Josh M.A.,,Ph.D.(Banaras), D Litt (Paris)Professor of Sanskrit El Colegio de Mexico, Mexico -----Mensaje original----- De: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] En nombre de Dominik Wujastyk Enviado el: Lunes, 18 de Enero de 2010 09:51 a.m. Para: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Asunto: Report on the accident of Munishri Jambuvijayji and colleagues Dear colleagues, A "Report on the accident of Param Pujya Munishri Jambuvijayji Maharaj Saheb" by Hiroko Matsuoka has been posted to the "Members' queries and information" section of the INDOLOGY website, http://indology.info See: http://indology.info/email/email-members.shtml It is a PDF file (600kb). Ms Matsuoka was in the harrowing situation of being one of the party travelling with Jambuvijayaji and his colleagues at the time of the accident, and she arrived on the scene less than an hour after the event, and before the arrival of the police. Ms Matsuoka has granted permission for her account to be shared on the internet with members of the INDOLOGY list. Dominik Wujastyk INDOLOGY website From lubint at WLU.EDU Tue Jan 26 15:31:03 2010 From: lubint at WLU.EDU (Lubin, Tim) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 10 10:31:03 -0500 Subject: BitComet as (simpler?) alternative to wget Message-ID: <161227088308.23782.6464228141886932404.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4650 Lines: 121 One can use a free batch downloader called BitComet to download DLI books in one go -- no bash scripts necessary. Once the program is installed, open it, press Ctrl+B for the batch download dialogue box, and paste the entire URL of the first page in the upper field. One way to get this URL is to open the book in the DLI website's reader interface, which will produce a URL like this: http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/scripts/FullindexDefault.htm?path1=/rawdataupload1/upload/0132/045&first=1&last=268&barcode=99999990133383 \ Then remove "FullindexDefault.htm?path1=/" and the whole string beginning with the first &, and append: PTIFF/00000001.tif to produce: http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/rawdataupload1/upload/0132/045/PTIFF/00000001.tif Then in the second field of the batch download dialogue box, insert this same URL, but replace the 00000001 with the number of the last page preceded by enough 0's to make eight digits. The last page number can be found in the original URL after the string "&last=". In the example above, this will produce: http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/rawdataupload1/upload/0132/045/PTIFF/00000268.tif Then click ADD and DOWNLOAD NOW. The tifs can then be combined in Acrobat into a single PDF. Tim ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk [ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK] Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:29 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: wget (was: Re: Abhandlungen der K?nigliche n Akademie der Wissensch aften zu Berli) Birgit is quite right about the value of wget. It's an amazing little tool. I use it routinely to get books from the Digital Library of India, where texts are presented only as individual pages. Until about a year ago, one could use the "-r" recursion setting of wget to fetch a whole directory-full of files in one go. Then the DLI disabled that feature. So now one has to issue a wget command for each page. But it's easy to do with a small bash script like this: ---------- cut here ----------- #!/bin/sh # fetch Kapadia_Desc.Cat.Govt.Colls.MSS.BORI-Jaina # Literature and Philosophy XIX.1 Svetambara Works_1957 for i in {00000001..397..1} do wget http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/data/upload/0048/903/PTIFF/$i.tif done ---------- cut here ----------- The magic number "371" is the number of pages in the book, which DLI tells you. In Firefox, you can find out the directory in which a book's TIFF files live by loading a page of the book and then hitting Tools/Page Info and selecting "media". Bash is the default shell in Linux; it's also available to Windows users by installing the excellent Cygwin. Best, Dominik On Tue, 12 Jan 2010, Birgit Kellner wrote: > Jonathan Silk wrote: > > I have a feeling I may be an idiot (well, I'm sure in other respects, but in > > this case...): I learn from Indologica that we can find online the > > *Abhandlungen > > der K?niglichen Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin. * > > > > When I go, however, for example to > > http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/bibliothek-digital/digitalequellen/schriften/anzeige/index_html?band=07-abh/1844&seite:int=711, > > I can only get one page at a time; is there not a way to download an entire > > article? > > > > Thanks for your advice! Jonathan > > > > > The interface unfortunately doesn't offer the possibility to download > several pages at once (as a PDF, for instance), no. > > There is a workaround, but it's a bit time-consuming: > > 1.) Click on a page image with the desired size ("large", for instance). > You see the JPG file and get a link like this in the browser's URL line: > > http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/thumbnail?band=07-abh/1844&aufloesung:int=2&img=DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/00000002.jpg&seite:int=2 > > This means that the image file is stored in this directory: > > http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/ > > 2.) If you have the wonderful little tool wget installed, run > > wget -r http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/ > > from the command line. > > This gets you all images for the volume in question to a local folder. > You can then create a PDF file with these images (even run OCR on them > before), with, for instance Adobe Acrobat Pro (on Windows); I gather on > a recent Mac OS, there should already be tools available in the > operating system for the job. > > I trust the real geeks on the list can provide further advice :-) > > Best, > > b > -- -- After nearly 25 years, I'm phasing out this UCL email account. Please switch over to using the email address wujastyk at gmail.com !SIG:4b4f0048141301638493625! From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Jan 26 09:51:18 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 10 10:51:18 +0100 Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art In-Reply-To: <64657425-86AF-4379-A91E-1DF2B4D3118F@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227088297.23782.3650266535606527214.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1344 Lines: 41 Thank you, Michael, The images in the MS you refer to are really interesting, and grist to my mill. The series of images is exactly what I've been dealing with in the Wellcome MSS, but in your NGMPP example, the drawings are simpler, not in colour, and perhaps later (19th cent?). And yes, hooray, the images are clearly of children, at least in several cases. The Mann thesis is most interesting, and I was unaware of it. Thanks indeed! Dominik 2010/1/25 Michael Slouber > Dear Dominik, > > In one Graha??nti type Newari manuscript I have a copy of (filmed as NGMPP > reel no. E1689/4), there do seem to be some children depicted. You can view > a figure that is very likely to be a child, while some others are > more ambiguous. The lower folio shows a short and chubby figure wearing the > protective anklets that Newars still put on their children to ward off > harmful grahas and the like. Several of the figures in this text appear to > be women, perhaps pregnant women who along with their unborn are especially > vulnerable. > > Richard Mann's 2003 dissertation (McMaster University) "The Early Cult of > Skanda in North India: From Demon to Divine Son" should be of interest if > you haven't seen it already. > > Sincerely, > > Michael Slouber > UC Berkeley, Universit?t Hamburg > > > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Jan 26 09:55:19 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 10 10:55:19 +0100 Subject: Formating, Spacing, etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088299.23782.8842108740687446387.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1648 Lines: 51 I'm not aware that the INDOLOGY listserv software does anything at all to emails. It's just a reflector. You refer to "filtered through the list", but there's no filtering going on. What the listserv receives, it bounces directly out to the membership. I would look at your local settings for the cause of this blip. Do you have a setting for making outgoing emails be in "plain text" or some such name? Try turning off any "rich formatting" features. Just a thought. Best, Dominik 2010/1/25 Benjamin Fleming > Dear List members, > I am curious if anyone has suggestions for ensuring correct formating for > messages to this list? I do not use an email program for my hotmail account > and the lists I access through it, but send directly from my browser. > Inevitably all the spacing is removed (or added in some cases) and I haven't > been able to gain control over this. As in my last message about the > Material Culture conference, long lists of data, spaced for readability in > my original message, became conflated into a single run-on paragraph when > filtered through the list. > Any suggestion for fixing this issue would be greatly appreciated! > Best Wishes,BF > > -- > > Benjamin Fleming Visiting Scholar, > > Dept. of Religious Studies, > > University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street, > > Claudia Cohen Hall, #234 > > Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A. > > Telephone - 215-746-7792 > > http://www.benjaminfleming.com > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390708/direct/01/ > From jpeterso at UNI-OSNABRUECK.DE Tue Jan 26 10:02:38 2010 From: jpeterso at UNI-OSNABRUECK.DE (John Peterson) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 10 11:02:38 +0100 Subject: Works on SA languages, 2007-2009, by scholars residing in Europe In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088301.23782.15574762615560234863.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1861 Lines: 63 PLEASE FORWARD TO INTERESTED COLLEAGUES!!! Dear all, I am currently in the process of compiling the commentated bibliography on studies on South Asian languages by scholars residing in Europe for the years 2007-2009 for the Annual Review of South Asian Languages and Linguistics (other regions will be covered by other authors). Although such a bibliography will never - and probably can never - be exhaustive, I would nevertheless like to take this opportunity to ask those members of this list who reside/work in Europe and who have published works on these languages between 2007-2009 to please inform me of their work so that I can incorporate this information into the upcoming bibliography and make it more representative. I would therefore be grateful if you could let me know of your own work (or that of your colleagues) on any aspect of South Asian languages of the past three years. This includes - but is not restricted to! - the following areas: - grammars - phonology - historical linguistics - traditional grammatical studies - lexicography - sociolinguistic aspects - morphosyntactic studies - computational linguistics - (machine) translation - writing systems / literacy studies - linguistic convergences / language areas - and much, much more! The only requirement is that the work be *primarily* linguistic in nature, e.g., not a translation of a text. It would also be great if you could send me electronic versions of these if you have them (which I of course will NOT distribute further!). I look forward to hearing from you! Best, John -- "Stability in language is synonymous with rigor mortis." (Ernest Weekley, 1865-1954) John Peterson Institut f?r Linguistik Universit?t Leipzig Beethovenstra?e 15 D-04107 Leipzig Germany Phone: (+49) (0)341 97-37643 Fax: (+49) (0)341 97-37609 http://www.SouthAsiaBibliography.de/ From lubint at WLU.EDU Tue Jan 26 16:03:25 2010 From: lubint at WLU.EDU (Lubin, Tim) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 10 11:03:25 -0500 Subject: BitComet as (simpler?) alternative to wget In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088312.23782.7508327023395815110.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 433 Lines: 14 We Windows-using dinosaurs need to muddle along as best we can. I know it's like eating soup with a fork. ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk [wujastyk at GMAIL.COM] Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 10:44 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: BitComet as (simpler?) alternative to wget That's a good wheeze for people who use Windows. ... From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Tue Jan 26 07:06:55 2010 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 10 12:36:55 +0530 Subject: more on N=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81gar=C4=AB?= In-Reply-To: <159679.99850.qm@web8602.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088295.23782.3735853221797584663.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3143 Lines: 79 Ah yes, I forgot to include this information. The script of the early manuscript is what some today now call "Early Nepalese 'Licchavi' script". You can see an image of a couple of folios of a manuscript in a similar script, dated to 810 AD, in volume 1 of the Skandapur??a, just before the Prolegomena. The Skandapur??a Volume I Adhy?yas 1?25 Critically Edited with Prolegomena and English Synopsis by R. Adraensen, H.T. Bakker, H. Isaacson Groningen: Egbert Forsten, 1998. Dominic Goodall On 23 Jan 2010, at 12:55, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > Dear Dr. Goodall, > The infoprmation on the Nerpalese manuscript is very interesting. > Could you kindly inform about the script used in the manuscript > itself? > Best wishes > Sincerely > D.Bhattacharya > --- On Sat, 23/1/10, Dominic Goodall > wrote: > > From: Dominic Goodall > Subject: more on N?gar? > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Saturday, 23 January, 2010, 9:46 AM > > A note to add to the interesting exchanges about script-use and > script names. > > There is a passage in the ?ivadharmottara that appears to recommend > the copying of ?aiva literature using Nandin?gar? letters. This > has hitherto been assumed (in an article by R.C. Hazra and, more > recently, by Paolo Magnone) to be a reference to the South Indian > script now known as Nandin?gar?, which reached its developed form > in the Vijayanagara period. > > m?tr?nusv?rasa?yogahrasvad?rgh?dilak?itai?| > nandin?garakair var?air lekhayec chivapustakam|| 2.40|| > > But a Nepalese palm-leaf manuscript transmitting the ?ivadharmottara > has come to light that appears to have been written at the end of > the C8th or in the C9th. The passage in question is to be found in > the bottom line of the bottom folio of exposure 40 of NGMPP A 12/3. > (The 3rd p?da of the verse there reads nad?n?garakair > var??air, but we may perhaps be justified in taking this to be a > copying error.) > > Nandin?gar?, therefore, is not just the name of a Southern script > of the Vijayanagara period; it is attested much earlier as a label > for a different style of lettering. Furthermore, I think that we > can assume that the script in question was a Northern one from the > way the lettering is described in the previous verse. > > caturasrai? sama??r?air n?tisth?lair na v? k??ai?| > samp?r??vayavai? snigdhair n?tivicchinnasa?hatai?|| 2.39|| > > Most of these qualifications could probably be interpreted to > describe almost any sort of characters, but it seems to me that the > instruction that they should be neither too thick nor too thin > (n?tisth?lair na v? k??ai?) narrows the range of > possibilities. For this, it seems to me, is very unlikely to have > been a formulation chosen if the author had been thinking of a > scribal tradition in which letters are incised into palm-leaves, > such as we find in the Southern, Dravidian-speaking areas and along > much of the Eastern littoral. > > Dominic Goodall > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Jan 26 15:44:26 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 10 16:44:26 +0100 Subject: BitComet as (simpler?) alternative to wget In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088310.23782.891753992694885249.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5005 Lines: 148 That's a good wheeze for people who use Windows. Thanks, Dominik 2010/1/26 Lubin, Tim > One can use a free batch downloader called BitComet to download DLI books > in one go -- no bash scripts necessary. > > Once the program is installed, open it, press Ctrl+B for the batch download > dialogue box, and paste the entire URL of the first page in the upper field. > One way to get this URL is to open the book in the DLI website's reader > interface, which will produce a URL like this: > > > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/scripts/FullindexDefault.htm?path1=/rawdataupload1/upload/0132/045&first=1&last=268&barcode=99999990133383 > \ > Then remove "FullindexDefault.htm?path1=/" and the whole string beginning > with the first &, and append: PTIFF/00000001.tif > > to produce: > > > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/rawdataupload1/upload/0132/045/PTIFF/00000001.tif > > Then in the second field of the batch download dialogue box, insert this > same URL, but replace the 00000001 with the number of the last page preceded > by enough 0's to make eight digits. The last page number can be found in > the original URL after the string "&last=". In the example above, this will > produce: > > > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/rawdataupload1/upload/0132/045/PTIFF/00000268.tif > > Then click ADD and DOWNLOAD NOW. > > The tifs can then be combined in Acrobat into a single PDF. > > Tim > > > ________________________________________ > From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk [ > ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK] > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:29 AM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: wget (was: Re: Abhandlungen der K?nigliche n Akademie der > Wissensch aften zu Berli) > > Birgit is quite right about the value of wget. It's an amazing little > tool. I use it routinely to get books from the Digital Library of India, > where texts are presented only as individual pages. > > Until about a year ago, one could use the "-r" recursion setting of wget > to fetch a whole directory-full of files in one go. Then the DLI disabled > that feature. So now one has to issue a wget command for each page. > But it's easy to do with a small bash script like this: > > ---------- cut here ----------- > #!/bin/sh > > # fetch Kapadia_Desc.Cat.Govt.Colls.MSS.BORI-Jaina > # Literature and Philosophy XIX.1 Svetambara Works_1957 > > for i in {00000001..397..1} > do > wget > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/data/upload/0048/903/PTIFF/$i.tif > done > ---------- cut here ----------- > > The magic number "371" is the number of pages in the book, which DLI tells > you. In Firefox, you can find out the directory in which a book's TIFF > files live by loading a page of the book and then hitting Tools/Page Info > and selecting "media". > > Bash is the default shell in Linux; it's also available to Windows users > by installing the excellent Cygwin. > > Best, > Dominik > > > > On Tue, 12 Jan 2010, Birgit Kellner wrote: > > > Jonathan Silk wrote: > > > I have a feeling I may be an idiot (well, I'm sure in other respects, > but in > > > this case...): I learn from Indologica that we can find online the > > > *Abhandlungen > > > der K?niglichen Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin. * > > > > > > When I go, however, for example to > > > > http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/bibliothek-digital/digitalequellen/schriften/anzeige/index_html?band=07-abh/1844&seite:int=711 > , > > > I can only get one page at a time; is there not a way to download an > entire > > > article? > > > > > > Thanks for your advice! Jonathan > > > > > > > > The interface unfortunately doesn't offer the possibility to download > > several pages at once (as a PDF, for instance), no. > > > > There is a workaround, but it's a bit time-consuming: > > > > 1.) Click on a page image with the desired size ("large", for instance). > > You see the JPG file and get a link like this in the browser's URL line: > > > > > http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/thumbnail?band=07-abh/1844&aufloesung:int=2&img=DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/00000002.jpg&seite:int=2 > > > > This means that the image file is stored in this directory: > > > > http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/ > > > > 2.) If you have the wonderful little tool wget installed, run > > > > wget -r http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/ > > > > from the command line. > > > > This gets you all images for the volume in question to a local folder. > > You can then create a PDF file with these images (even run OCR on them > > before), with, for instance Adobe Acrobat Pro (on Windows); I gather on > > a recent Mac OS, there should already be tools available in the > > operating system for the job. > > > > I trust the real geeks on the list can provide further advice :-) > > > > Best, > > > > b > > > > -- > -- > After nearly 25 years, I'm phasing out this UCL email account. > Please switch over to using the email address wujastyk at gmail.com > > !SIG:4b4f0048141301638493625! From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Wed Jan 27 09:51:51 2010 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 10 09:51:51 +0000 Subject: BitComet as (simpler?) alternative to wget In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088315.23782.11787017240268312174.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 634 Lines: 22 :-) On Tue, 26 Jan 2010, Lubin, Tim wrote: > We Windows-using dinosaurs need to muddle along as best we can. > I know it's like eating soup with a fork. > > ________________________________________ > From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk [wujastyk at GMAIL.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 10:44 AM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: BitComet as (simpler?) alternative to wget > > That's a good wheeze for people who use Windows. > ... -- After nearly 25 years, I'm phasing out this UCL email account. Please switch over to using the email address wujastyk at gmail.com From klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI Wed Jan 27 11:58:39 2010 From: klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI (Klaus Karttunen) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 10 13:58:39 +0200 Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088318.23782.15967273498554771282.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2363 Lines: 45 Dear Dominik and others, I have only now time to check what I have under the heading "Children" in my collection of references. Here's the result: CHAMPION, C. & R. GARCIA: Litt?rature orale villageoise de l'Inde du nord: chants et rites de l'enfance des pays d'Aoudh et bhojpuri. 330 p. P.E.F.E.O. 153. P. 1989. DESHPANDE, G. A. Kamalabhai: The Child in Ancient India. 15+227 p. Poona 1936 (diss. Prague 1931, mainly based on the Dharma- and G?hyas?tras). Also E. Waldschmidt, OLZ 40, 1937, 550-552. KATRE, Sumitra Mangesh: ?On some words for ?child? in Indo-Aryan?, ABORI 23, 1942, 242-249 (OIA to NIA). LOMMEL, Hermann: ?Vedica und Avestica II. Mutter und Kind bei Mensch und Tier in einigen vedischen Ver?gleichen?, ZII 8, 1931, 274-280. ROY, Sarat Chandra: ?Birth and Childhood Ceremonies amongst the Oraons?, JBORS 1:1, 1915, ??-??. ------ ?Birth, childhood and puberty ceremonies among the Birhors?, JBORS 4:2, 1918, ??-??. SHARMA, Arvind: ?Attitudes towards sonship in classical Hinduism and Theravada Buddhism: a comparison?, JOIB 24, 1975, 338-342. SHASTRI, Veneemadhava: ?Child in Prakrit Poems?, JOIB 47:1-2, 1997 (2000), 101-112 (in dramas and lyric anthologies). STERNBACH, Ludwik: ?Juridical Studies in Ancient Indian Law: 8. Infanticide and Exposure of New-born Children?, Poona Or. 13:1-2, 1948, 79-87. THIEME, Paul: "?ber einige Benennungen des Nachkommen", KZ 66, 1939, 130-144. ------ "Weiteres zum indischen Adoptionsritual", KZ 67, 1942, 289 (cf. 1939, 134). VERPOORTEN, Jean-Marie: ?L?enfant dans la litt?rature rituelle v?dique (Br?hma?a)?, L?enfant dans les civilisations orientales. Acta Orientalia Belgica 2. Leuven 1980, ??-??. Best, Klaus Karttunen Professor of South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies Institute for Asian and African Studies PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674 Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094 Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi On Jan 23, 2010, at 7:50 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > Can you point me to a scholarly discussion of this topic? What are the > earliest depictions of children in S. Asian art? What deductions can be > made about the idea of the child from any such images? What I'm thinking > about is the S. A. evidence that might inform a discussion of the "invention > of childhood". > > Best, > Dominik > From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Jan 28 03:24:50 2010 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 10 03:24:50 +0000 Subject: elements of curse formulae Message-ID: <161227088320.23782.13745919903891949615.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1342 Lines: 14 Dear colleagues, The fragmentary socle of an intact Sanskrit?stela inscription (dated 700 "saka) recently discovered in the temple complex of Hoa Lai in Ninh Thuan province, Southern Vietnam, is itself inscribed with a slightly later group of stanzas, dated to 760 "saka. Only two out of four faces of the socle are left, and I am trying to determine how many verse-quarters would have stood on the lost faces. For this purpose, it would be very helpful if any exact parallels could be discovered from epigraphical or literary Sanskrit for the following two indravajraa paadas: ye sa.mhari.syanty adhamaa.h k.rtaghnaa.hand tasmaat pit.rbhyaa.m narakaadhamaayaam I am hoping that these are not original compositions for the inscription in question, but belong to the large mass of curse formulae that Sanskrit inscriptions make use of. If so, I might be able to determine how to place them in relation to each other, and to a third element, ... sty aviicyaa.m (apparently the end of another indravajraa paada), whose position I can also not determine. I haven't myself been able to find these elements elsewhere. Can anybody help? Thank you. Arlo Griffiths (EFEO, Jakarta) _________________________________________________________________ New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more. http://windows.microsoft.com/shop From axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE Thu Jan 28 07:51:54 2010 From: axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE (Axel Michaels) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 10 07:51:54 +0000 Subject: Summer Schools in Sanskrit and Nepali /Sarasvati Sanskrit Award Message-ID: <161227088322.23782.5876069757016220024.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1439 Lines: 27 like in the past decade, the Department of Classical Dear Colleagues, like in the past decade, the Department of Classical Indology at the South Asia Institute in Heidelberg is organising the Summer School in Spoken Sanskrit and Nepali Intensive Course this year from 2nd to 27th August, 2010. More information and details can be accessed by following the link below: http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/studium/summerschool.php It is our pleasure to announce that applications are also invited for the second Saraswati Sanskrit Prize 2010, instituted by the Indian Council for Cultural Relations (ICCR), the Government of India and the Department of Classical Indology, South Asia Institute, Heidelberg. More Information at: http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/aktuelles/sarasvati/sarasvati.php Please encourage your students or colleagues to participate in the above events. Best greetings Axel Michaels ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Axel Michaels Sprecher des SFB 619 ("Ritualdynamik"), Kodirektor des Exzellenzclusters "Asia and Europe in a Global Context" Universit?t Heidelberg, S?dasien-Institut, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, D-69120 Heidelberg Tel. +49-6221-548917 / Fax +49-6221-546338 http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/index.html -- http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/ -- www.ritualdynamik.uni-hd.de -- Axel.Michaels at urz.uni-heidelberg.de -- michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET Fri Jan 29 06:27:45 2010 From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 10 06:27:45 +0000 Subject: Workshops on Logic in India and the West Message-ID: <161227088324.23782.7131628999245866088.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2635 Lines: 68 I have been asked to forward information about a workshop likely to be of interest to many on the List. The email contact is . Apologies for cross-posting. Valerie J Roebuck Dialogues and Games: Historical Roots and Contemporary Models. Monday, the 8th and Tuesday, the 9th February University of Lille 3, France This workshop is completely organized by the ILLC (University of Amsterdam) as part of the activities of the prgram EUROCORES LOGICCC and of the informal working group DDAHL. They are hosted in Lille by STL. Studies in the history of logic have shown that the medieval traditions, both in western Europe and in India, have many distinctive dialogical and epistemological characteristics. As a result, they have much more in common with each other than they do mathematical logic of the 1950's. Recently, it has become apparent that these shared characteristics can be fruitfully modeled in the context of modern developments in logic, which are dynamic and dialogical in flavor. We believe that investigating the common properties of these two historical approaches can advance our understanding of these philosophical and historical traditions with the help of recent technical advances in dialogical and game semantics and dialogue games. The purpose of this workshop is to bring together researchers from both the philosophical and technical traditions to provide a spring-board for collaboration and potential cross-discipline applications, allowing people working in both historical traditions, the Western and the Indian, to gain knowledge of current modeling techniques and those on the technical side access to new problems and theories to model. The four fields that we intend to represent are: - the dialogical tradition in logic in India (Claus Oetke and Marie-H?l?ne Gorisse) - obligationes in medieval Western logic ( Aude Popek and Sara Uckelman) - dialogical semantics and dialogue models (Luca Tranchini, Nicolas Maudet and Tero Tulenheimo) - and games for dialogues and semantics (Daniele Porello and Pietro Galliani). For further informations: http://www.illc.uva.nl/medlogic/DDAHL/DiG.html Wishing to meet you in Lille, With best regards, Marie-H?l?ne Gorisse PhD-student in Jain Philosophy Hosting this event http://stl.recherche.univ-lille3.fr/sitespersonnels/rahman/rahmanequipegorissefrancais.html From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Fri Jan 29 13:00:31 2010 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 10 07:00:31 -0600 Subject: 15th WSC January 2012 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088330.23782.16564898970966320919.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 540 Lines: 25 Hi Jan: Thanks for the information. I was, however, surprised that no section dealing with Dharmasastra, Arthasastra etc. is among the 18. Is this a deliberate decision or did it simply fall between the cracks? Patrick >http://www.sanskrit.nic.in/wsc15.pdf > > > >-- >Prof. Dr. Jan E.M. Houben, >Directeur d Etudes ? Sources et Histoire de la Tradition Sanskrite ? >Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, SHP, >A la Sorbonne,45-47, rue des Ecoles, >75005 Paris -- France. >JEMHouben at gmail.com From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Fri Jan 29 13:01:24 2010 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 10 07:01:24 -0600 Subject: 15th WSC January 2012 Message-ID: <161227088333.23782.12966069807865826780.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 608 Lines: 30 Sorry, everybody. I meant to send the query to Jan only. Patrick Hi Jan: Thanks for the information. I was, however, surprised that no section dealing with Dharmasastra, Arthasastra etc. is among the 18. Is this a deliberate decision or did it simply fall between the cracks? Patrick >http://www.sanskrit.nic.in/wsc15.pdf > > > >-- >Prof. Dr. Jan E.M. Houben, >Directeur d Etudes ? Sources et Histoire de la Tradition Sanskrite ? >Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, SHP, >A la Sorbonne,45-47, rue des Ecoles, >75005 Paris -- France. >JEMHouben at gmail.com From jemhouben at GMAIL.COM Fri Jan 29 12:21:12 2010 From: jemhouben at GMAIL.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 10 13:21:12 +0100 Subject: 15th WSC January 2012 Message-ID: <161227088326.23782.12016415663897412719.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 303 Lines: 14 http://www.sanskrit.nic.in/wsc15.pdf -- Prof. Dr. Jan E.M. Houben, Directeur d Etudes ? Sources et Histoire de la Tradition Sanskrite ? Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, SHP, A la Sorbonne,45-47, rue des Ecoles, 75005 Paris -- France. JEMHouben at gmail.com From jemhouben at GMAIL.COM Fri Jan 29 12:52:51 2010 From: jemhouben at GMAIL.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 10 13:52:51 +0100 Subject: 4i-SCLS 12.12.2010 Message-ID: <161227088328.23782.14144555208733970214.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 623 Lines: 26 Dear indologist The 4th International International Sanskrit Computational Linguistics Symposium (4i-SCLS) will take place at the Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi, India from 10-12 December, 2010. You are requested to advertise this at your institutes and circulate it to other insterested scholars. The details can be found at the seminar website http://sanskrit.jnu.ac.in/conf/4iscls/index.jsp Dr. Girish Nath Jha Associate Professor, Computational Linguistics Special Center for Sanskrit Studies, J.N.U., New Delhi - 110067 http://www.jnu.ac.in/faculty/gnjha http://sanskrit.jnu.ac.in ph.26741308 (o) - From tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU Fri Jan 29 23:28:35 2010 From: tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU (Tracy Coleman) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 10 16:28:35 -0700 Subject: Sanskrit pop singer in China Message-ID: <161227088335.23782.10936405915750904561.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 249 Lines: 11 I don't recall that this interesting news has reached Indology yet: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/china/China-claims-to-have-1st-po p-singer-in-Sanskrit-may-present-her-during-World-Expo/articleshow/5499452 .cms Cheers to All, Tracy From tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU Fri Jan 29 23:32:48 2010 From: tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU (Tracy Coleman) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 10 16:32:48 -0700 Subject: Sanskrit pop singer in China Message-ID: <161227088337.23782.510004089324507936.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 649 Lines: 26 Let me try the link again. But you may have to paste it in fully: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/china/China-claims-to-have-1st-po p-singer-in-Sanskrit-may-present-her-during-World-Expo/articleshow/5499452 .cms -----Original Message----- From: Indology on behalf of Tracy Coleman Sent: Fri 1/29/2010 4:28 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Sanskrit pop singer in China I don't recall that this interesting news has reached Indology yet: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/china/China-claims-to-have-1st-po p-singer-in-Sanskrit-may-present-her-during-World-Expo/articleshow/5499452 .cms Cheers to All, Tracy From athr at LOC.GOV Sat Jan 30 01:06:47 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 10 20:06:47 -0500 Subject: Sanskrit pop singer in China Message-ID: <161227088339.23782.4814149108298096501.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 423 Lines: 18 I used Tinyurl to create this shorter link: http://preview.tinyurl.com/skt-popsinger. Allen >>> Tracy Coleman 1/29/2010 6:28:35 PM >>> I don't recall that this interesting news has reached Indology yet: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/china/China-claims-to-have-1st-po p-singer-in-Sanskrit-may-present-her-during-World-Expo/articleshow/5499452 .cms Cheers to All, Tracy From rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU Sat Jan 30 17:00:40 2010 From: rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU (Alexander von Rospatt) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 10 09:00:40 -0800 Subject: Berkeley Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts Message-ID: <161227088347.23782.67909219909020239.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3716 Lines: 39 Dear Colleagues, please take note of the below announcement and bring it to the attention of potentially interested students. Many thanks, Alexander von Rospatt Mangalam Research Center for Buddhist Languages Center for Buddhist Studies, University of California Ho Center for Buddhist Studies, Stanford University Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts Berkeley, CA, USA. June 14-July 2, 2010 Core Faculty: Luis Gomez, Michael Hahn Associate Faculty: Paul Harrison, Alexander von Rospatt, Carmen Dragonetti, Fernando Tola Putting the Dharma into the words of a new culture is a task that has traditionally unfolded over several generations. In the West, where the languages of educated discourse are sophisticated and rich with layers of meaning, the challenges of being able to convey the Buddhist teachings as faithfully as possible are especially daunting. This intensive three-week program, intended primarily for graduate students in Buddhism, Indology, or allied fields, is a small step toward a clear and consistent terminology or (more modestly) developing skills and strategies for finding the best translation equivalents in contemporary English. The text for the program is the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra. We will read the Sanskrit together with the Tibetan and Chinese translations. This close reading will address problems of interpretation, as well as the technical and stylistic challenges faced by the translator of classical Buddhist texts. Students should have facility in Sanskrit; knowledge of Tibetan or Chinese will be helpful. Format and Facilities?Guided by distinguished faculty, students will meet 5 hours a day, five days a week to work with the challenges posed by the text. Sessions will be held from 9:30 am ? 12:30 pm and 3:30 pm ? 5:30 pm. Meals are provided, and housing is an easy walk. Students will have access to the libraries of the Mangalam Research Center and the University of California at Berkeley (a 10-minute walk). Rapid Transit to San Francisco is half-a-block away. Focus?The focus will be on key terms of the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra in the context of the profound Mahayana vision it sets forth. We will examine vocabulary choices in both source and target languages, sensitive to subtle shifts in meaning between languages with different philosophical underpinnings. Among the topics to be explored and skills to be honed: ? Sanskrit roots, etymology, and the relation of Buddhist Sanskrit to other forms of Sanskrit ? Issues of context and intertexuality. ? comparison with the Tibetan and Chinese, with reference to commentaries. ? stylistic choices and terminology in existing translations in both canonical and modern languages ? general issues in the theory and practice of translation as they arise in rendering a classic Buddh ist text into a modern idiom. Costs: Tuition: $1,200 (includes lunch daily). Food and lodging: $1,350. Total cost: $2,550. Applications?The program is intended for advanced graduate students, but applications from all qualified candidates will be considered. Please submit an application by March 15, 2010 to summerprograms at mangalamresearch.org. Include a short statement of purpose, a description of language skills and how acquired, and a 1?2 paragraph letter of endorsement from your principal adviser. Students completing the program will receive a formal letter from the Buddhist Studies program of the University of California, Berkeley, certifying that the course corresponds to a semester long graduate seminar of fifteen weeks with five hours of instruction per week." Maximum number of participants is 15. Applicants will be notified by April 10, 2010. From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Sat Jan 30 10:07:15 2010 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 10 11:07:15 +0100 Subject: Sanskrit pop singer in China In-Reply-To: <20100129T200647Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227088341.23782.2550107556787470753.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 879 Lines: 34 Indeed, just as the website says, Sanskrit is emblematic of Chinese culture. Or, uh, wait a second here... On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 2:06 AM, Allen W Thrasher wrote: > I used Tinyurl to create this shorter link: > http://preview.tinyurl.com/skt-popsinger. > > Allen > > > >>> Tracy Coleman 1/29/2010 6:28:35 PM >>> > > I don't recall that this interesting news has reached Indology yet: > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/china/China-claims-to-have-1st-po > p-singer-in-Sanskrit-may-present-her-during-World-Expo/articleshow/5499452 > .cms > > Cheers to All, > Tracy > -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Sat Jan 30 14:09:47 2010 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 10 15:09:47 +0100 Subject: Sanskrit pop singer in China In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088343.23782.5098440930172300802.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 445 Lines: 16 >> http://preview.tinyurl.com/skt-popsinger. Well, concerning the claim China has the first Sanskrit popsinger, America came first, indeed. There exists a music group called "Shanti Shanti" who is claimed to be the "first" Sanskrit rock band. See the homepage: Enjoy Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Abteilung f?r Indologie Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Sat Jan 30 14:48:03 2010 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 10 15:48:03 +0100 Subject: Sanskrit pop singer in China In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088345.23782.15703531885697593050.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1750 Lines: 56 Just as good as the Chinese website, if not better! I've learned alot. For instance: *What is Sanskrit? **Sanskrit is an ancient spiritual language from India. It originated as part the Indus Valley Civilization and is said to be approximately 5,000 years old. Sanskrit is governed by the proper pronunciation of pure tones in a perfectly rhythmical way to create a theraputic feeling for the listener and the presenter. *So, the IVC problem is solved, that's good to know. And we should all feel therapeudic, apparently, which is fantastic! But wait, it gets better! The story begins when sisters, Andrea and Sara, just 9 and 7 years old, were spontaneously able to chant, read and write Sanskrit. This is something traditionally only done by Indian Male pundits. And you see, stupid me, I thought that EVEN MALES had to study a little bit. Now I know why my Sanskrit is so much worse than that of Indian Male pundits--they are able to do it all spontaneously, you see. No wonder the politicians don't want to fund us anymore--why pay someone to teach something which should come naturally? On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Peter Wyzlic wrote: > >> http://preview.tinyurl.com/skt-popsinger. > > > Well, concerning the claim China has the first Sanskrit popsinger, America > came first, indeed. There exists a music group called "Shanti Shanti" who is > claimed to be the "first" Sanskrit rock band. See the homepage: < > http://www.shantishanti.com/home.html> > > Enjoy > Peter Wyzlic > -- > Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften > Abteilung f?r Indologie > Universit?t Bonn > Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 > 53113 Bonn > -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM Sun Jan 31 08:26:03 2010 From: james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM (James Hartzell) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 10 10:26:03 +0200 Subject: sa.wikipedia.org Message-ID: <161227088349.23782.3896944723031899948.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 639 Lines: 18 Not sure whether colleagues are conversant with this Sanskrit Wikipedia link (sa.wikipedia.org), and what the consensus opinion is; from a very brief look it appears only short articles for some entries, some partly in Hindi. It might be a good venue for centralizing links for Sanskrit digital documents, audio recordings, videos, university websites, etc. It was started last week by a team of Samskrita Bharati volunteers in Bangalore http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Academy/India/2010/Bangalore1 additionally, we might think of starting some pages on scholarpedia.org? James Hartzell University of Trento Rovereto, Italy From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Jul 1 16:01:34 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 10 18:01:34 +0200 Subject: colophon, explicit, incipit, post-colophon, etc. etc. Message-ID: <161227089848.23782.15194860676358513367.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1412 Lines: 41 It's all very confusing. First question: am I right in believing that David Pingree introduced the term "post-colophon" into Indian manuscript studies when he wrote his catalogue of the Bodleian Chandra Shum Shere jyoti?a collection? Second: am I right that nobody outside Indological circles (and those influenced by indologists in the last few decades) uses the term "post-colophon"? Finally, here's a grid of usages: Key: Pingree (various catalogues, starting 1984) Tripathi: C. Tripathi, Cat. of Jaina MSS at Strasbourg Wikipedia: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colophon_%28publishing%29 and links. X: no special term Description????????????Pingree ??? Tripathi???? Wikipedia (and non-indologists) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Final verse of text???????????????? X?????????????? X??????????????explicit iti...sam?ptam??? colophon? colophon? X (or colophon?) sa?vat phrase? post- Scribal colophon colophon Remarks after sa?vat phrase X post- X colophon Pratapaditya Pal uses "post-colophon" in his 1978 Arts of Nepal book (http://tinyurl.com/37n8f2z), in the same sense as Pingree. Perhaps that's where David got it? Dominik From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Jul 2 06:12:13 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 10 08:12:13 +0200 Subject: The Kern Library Message-ID: <161227089850.23782.14910154912810252990.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 379 Lines: 15 Word reaches me that the Kern Library in Leiden, one of Europe's finest indological libraries, closed for good yesterday. ?Its collections will be merged physically and bibliographically into the main Leiden university library. Dr Dominik Wujastyk Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Vienna Austria From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Jul 2 13:03:05 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 10 15:03:05 +0200 Subject: Fwd: [INDOLOGY] The Kern Library In-Reply-To: <1F9BEE7CD372454B9C559A368815D5EC@PC1131> Message-ID: <161227089853.23782.10127780593277739427.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 692 Lines: 20 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: oort Date: 2 July 2010 11:09 Subject: RE: [INDOLOGY] The Kern Library To all who have made use of the Kern Institute Library. Unfortunately this is true. ?As a former librarian of the Kern Institute I consider this the end of a unique collection. Although we will be given a separate section in the University Library with open stacks, the manuscripts, photo collections and antiquaria will be less accessible. The association Kern Institute still exists and still has a private collection. ?We hope to find a suitable place to display our treasures and welcome international scholars as in the past. Marianne Oort From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Jul 2 15:36:50 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 10 17:36:50 +0200 Subject: A new discussion forum for Sanskrit, philosophy and related matters Message-ID: <161227089855.23782.3980332778825503908.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 134 Lines: 8 http://orientalia.freeforums.org "The place where you can discuss philosophy, philology, Sanskrit and anything related" Best, DW From lubint at WLU.EDU Sat Jul 3 11:24:38 2010 From: lubint at WLU.EDU (Lubin, Tim) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 10 07:24:38 -0400 Subject: (Xe)(La)TeX, (L)Edmac, and Velthuis query Message-ID: <161227089857.23782.10886783562799097579.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3168 Lines: 66 Dear Dominik (and anyone else who might be able to help): Your message to Indology (below) made me wonder about a couple of things. I am still in the process (!) of trying to set a short Sanskrit critical edition using plain TeX with Edmac and the Velthuis font package. It is the publisher's desire to stick with Velthuis, which (last time I checked) works only with plain TeX. But everywhere I look, when I run into a difficulty, TeX-savvy people are scoffing at the very notion of using plain TeX, yet also still saying that various portings of Edmac to LaTeX are iffy and imperfect (though I myself succeeded in using Ledmac for an edition set in transliteration). In your message, you say you are using XeLaTeX with UTF-8, but also Edmac and Velthuis -- something I would like to do as well, but am behind in latest developments. Are you using some newer form of Edmac or Ledmac for this? Is there a new, improved Velthuis, or Velthuis-look-alike that can work with Ledmac? And for godsake has Velthuis ever "learned" how to print a conjunct for /chra/ or /.dra/ ?? Even Word can do that now! Tim ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk [wujastyk at GMAIL.COM] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:59 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] AW: [INDOLOGY] OCR for Romanized Sanskrit with Diacritics On 18 May 2010 18:32, Kellner, Birgit wrote: > > I am wondering whether Acrobat recognizes diacritics like ?, ?, ? or ? and > properly selects the fitting Unicode letters. I've never tried - does it, > Dominik? > > Best, > > Birgit > I did some simple tests this morning, and I was startled at how bad the results were. I scanned a page of a Brill book on indology at 300dpi. I then ran the resulting jpeg through the ORC of Acrobat 9, using both "exact image" and "Clearscan". (The latter creates vector fonts on the fly, matching the look of the fonts in the document. Very clever.) After selecting and copying all the text from the resulting PDFs, and examining them in a plain-text editor (UTF8-aware), the results were dreadful. Many, many errors, and certainly no diacritcal marks. So my earlier impression that current off-the-shelf OCR was mature in recognising accented characters was completely wrong. And I was rather shocked at how bad the OCR was even for non-accented text. Acrobat 9 is quite a complicated product, and it is possible that there are settings I am not aware of that could improve the OCR. I had a quick search through the Preferences to see if one could set character sets for the OCR, but I couldn't find anything relevant. The basic OCR menu contains a single language setting, which I had set appropriately. I think my "residual memory" of OCR being good on diacritics was a mis-remembering based on the scenario that when I copy and paste text from the PDFs produced by my TeX system, as I occasionally do, all the diacritics are correct, and properly coded in UTF8. I'm using XeLaTeX (with the xunicode package). Best, Dominik !SIG:4bf3a8dd171391969810401! From lubint at WLU.EDU Sun Jul 4 06:59:36 2010 From: lubint at WLU.EDU (Lubin, Tim) Date: Sun, 04 Jul 10 02:59:36 -0400 Subject: (Xe)(La)TeX, (L)Edmac, and Velthuis query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089862.23782.13117572302966556888.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 178 Lines: 6 Many thanks, Arlo, and also Andrew Ollett and Dominik, who replied off-list, for detailed and explicit guidance. It looks like a software upgrade will solve my problems. TL From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Sun Jul 4 03:59:57 2010 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Sun, 04 Jul 10 03:59:57 +0000 Subject: (Xe)(La)TeX, (L)Edmac, and Velthuis query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089859.23782.3809716816812511170.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5138 Lines: 85 Dear Tim, I am not sure which publisher you are dealing with, but the expressed preference for Velthuis may be due to his ignorance of other available options. I personally find Devangari MT more elegant, and I believe it is more in conformity of the shape of letters expected by an Indian readership. There is nothing wrong with plain TeX in itself: it will just make things harder because plain TeX wizards are few and far between, and you are bound to run into situations where you need to call on technical advice. I would strongly disadvise launching a project based on plain TeX if you do not have a very helpful plain-TeXie near at hand. Anyhow, Velthuis certainly does work with LaTeX, so I believe that factor is no reason to reject the combination Velthuis-LEDMAC. Shilpa Sumant and I have been having rather positive experiences with XeLaTeX and LEDMAC for our Karmapa~njikaa edition, using the Devanagari MT font that is native to Mac OS. We started working directly in Devanagari, which means that now that we have substantial part of text in edited form, we face the problem of extracting an easily searchable romanized text from the Devanagari. I heard from Somdev Vasudeva that with some simple tricks, one can keep working in romanized transliteration or in code (as with Velthuis), to get the Devanagari only at the output stage. This might have been a better procedure for us in hindsight. This is all the perspective of a technical simpleton. Dominik and others will be able to give you sophisticated technical advice. Good luck! Arlo ---------------------------------------- > Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 07:24:38 -0400 > From: lubint at WLU.EDU > Subject: [INDOLOGY] (Xe)(La)TeX, (L)Edmac, and Velthuis query > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Dear Dominik (and anyone else who might be able to help): > > Your message to Indology (below) made me wonder about a couple of things. I am still in the process (!) of trying to set a short Sanskrit critical edition using plain TeX with Edmac and the Velthuis font package. It is the publisher's desire to stick with Velthuis, which (last time I checked) works only with plain TeX. But everywhere I look, when I run into a difficulty, TeX-savvy people are scoffing at the very notion of using plain TeX, yet also still saying that various portings of Edmac to LaTeX are iffy and imperfect (though I myself succeeded in using Ledmac for an edition set in transliteration). > > In your message, you say you are using XeLaTeX with UTF-8, but also Edmac and Velthuis -- something I would like to do as well, but am behind in latest developments. > > Are you using some newer form of Edmac or Ledmac for this? > > Is there a new, improved Velthuis, or Velthuis-look-alike that can work with Ledmac? > > And for godsake has Velthuis ever "learned" how to print a conjunct for /chra/ or /.dra/ ?? Even Word can do that now! > > Tim > ________________________________________ > From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk [wujastyk at GMAIL.COM] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:59 AM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] AW: [INDOLOGY] OCR for Romanized Sanskrit with Diacritics > > On 18 May 2010 18:32, Kellner, Birgit >> wrote: > >> >> I am wondering whether Acrobat recognizes diacritics like ?, ?, ? or ? and >> properly selects the fitting Unicode letters. I've never tried - does it, >> Dominik? >> >> Best, >> >> Birgit >> > > > I did some simple tests this morning, and I was startled at how bad the > results were. I scanned a page of a Brill book on indology at 300dpi. I > then ran the resulting jpeg through the ORC of Acrobat 9, using both "exact > image" and "Clearscan". (The latter creates vector fonts on the fly, > matching the look of the fonts in the document. Very clever.) > > After selecting and copying all the text from the resulting PDFs, and > examining them in a plain-text editor (UTF8-aware), the results were > dreadful. Many, many errors, and certainly no diacritcal marks. > > So my earlier impression that current off-the-shelf OCR was mature in > recognising accented characters was completely wrong. And I was rather > shocked at how bad the OCR was even for non-accented text. > > Acrobat 9 is quite a complicated product, and it is possible that there are > settings I am not aware of that could improve the OCR. I had a quick search > through the Preferences to see if one could set character sets for the OCR, > but I couldn't find anything relevant. The basic OCR menu contains a single > language setting, which I had set appropriately. > > I think my "residual memory" of OCR being good on diacritics was a > mis-remembering based on the scenario that when I copy and paste text from > the PDFs produced by my TeX system, as I occasionally do, all the diacritics > are correct, and properly coded in UTF8. I'm using XeLaTeX (with the > xunicode package). > > Best, > Dominik > > !SIG:4bf3a8dd171391969810401! _________________________________________________________________ New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more. http://windows.microsoft.com/shop From kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Sun Jul 4 10:27:21 2010 From: kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Birgit Kellner) Date: Sun, 04 Jul 10 12:27:21 +0200 Subject: (Xe)(La)TeX, (L)Edmac, and Velthuis query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089864.23782.10548675201539463883.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3343 Lines: 48 On 04.07.2010 05:59, Arlo Griffiths wrote: > > Dear Tim, > I am not sure which publisher you are dealing with, but the expressed preference for Velthuis may be due to his ignorance of other available options. I personally find Devangari MT more elegant, and I believe it is more in conformity of the shape of letters expected by an Indian readership. > There is nothing wrong with plain TeX in itself: it will just make things harder because plain TeX wizards are few and far between, and you are bound to run into situations where you need to call on technical advice. I would strongly disadvise launching a project based on plain TeX if you do not have a very helpful plain-TeXie near at hand. Anyhow, Velthuis certainly does work with LaTeX, so I believe that factor is no reason to reject the combination Velthuis-LEDMAC. > Shilpa Sumant and I have been having rather positive experiences with XeLaTeX and LEDMAC for our Karmapa~njikaa edition, using the Devanagari MT font that is native to Mac OS. We started working directly in Devanagari, which means that now that we have substantial part of text in edited form, we face the problem of extracting an easily searchable romanized text from the Devanagari. I heard from Somdev Vasudeva that with some simple tricks, one can keep working in romanized transliteration or in code (as with Velthuis), to get the Devanagari only at the output stage. This might have been a better procedure for us in hindsight. > This is all the perspective of a technical simpleton. Dominik and others will be able to give you sophisticated technical advice. > Good luck! > Arlo > If what is aimed for is (a) the production of high-quality print editions and simultaneously (b) the ability to extract searchable Sanskrit text without annotation (and have it searchable), then I would suggest moving up an abstraction layer - start encoding the edition in XML. If you know any scripting language that can deal with XML (perl, php, python), getting a TEI-compliant XML source text for a critical edition to LaTeX source code for printing with ledmac, or to HTML for online publication, is quite simple (time-consuming, but simple). If you work in a (La)TeX environment, you may well be able to convert romanized to Devanagari and vice versa - but I don't think you will be able to extract searchable text without annotation, at least not without a lot of manual intervention and correction. The problem is that closing braces in (La)TeX source code don't tell you what they close (whereas in XML always has a matching , for instance). I did encounter cases where it was formally not possible anymore to extract the actual text from a jungle of notes just with scripting or programming. In the larger picture, if more editorial projects decided to work with XML from the start and were kind enough to share the resultant e-texts with repositories like SARIT, this would really help towards building larger digital corpora of better philological quality ... producing editions with Word or other specialized software that has its own proprietary file-format and does not follow any open standards is in my opinion a kind of technical imprisonment and rather solipsistic. The learning-curve towards XML is a little steep, but I think it really pays off. Best, Birgit From baums at UW.EDU Sun Jul 4 13:43:32 2010 From: baums at UW.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Sun, 04 Jul 10 22:43:32 +0900 Subject: (Xe)(La)TeX, (L)Edmac, and Velthuis query In-Reply-To: <4C306209.1000904@asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de> Message-ID: <161227089867.23782.5968049316121333161.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 995 Lines: 33 Dear Birgit, I very much agree with you that that marking up primary texts and our scholarly output in TEI would be worthwhile, for each of us individually and for the field. > If you know any scripting language that can deal with XML > (perl, php, python), getting a TEI-compliant XML source text > for a critical edition to LaTeX source code for printing with > ledmac, or to HTML for online publication, is quite simple > (time-consuming, but simple). Another route that I have been dabbling with and plan to use more seriously (for automated edition typesetting from our G?ndh?r? database) is via TeXML: http://getfo.org/texml/ This is a little preprocessor for TeX that allows one to express (La)TeX files in XML syntax, turning the programming task into a transformation from one form of XML (TEI) into another (TeXML), which can be accomplished quite elegantly and efficiently using XSLT. All best, Stefan -- Dr. Stefan Baums Graduate School of Literature Bukkyo University From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Jul 5 15:26:17 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 10 17:26:17 +0200 Subject: (Xe)(La)TeX, (L)Edmac, and Velthuis query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089870.23782.8116595080263079641.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4188 Lines: 112 http://cikitsa.blogspot.com/2010/07/xelatex-for-sanskrit.html At the link above, I've knocked up a XeLaTeXinput file that exemplifies a few features that Sanskritists like. This is all based on the work of others, esp. Somdev Vasudev, Zdenek Wagner, Daniel Stender, and of course Jonathan Kew (who wrote XeTeX). The main points are: 1. Live in the Unicode world. Then, very good things become possible ... 2. You can type your files in romanisation and get either Romanisation or Devanag?r? output, as you wish, without retyping the text. 3. You can type Devan?gar? input and get Devan?gar? output. 4. Devan?gar? hyphenates automatically, and reasonably well. 5. You can use any Roman or Devan?gar? fonts that are available to you, and switch between them easily. (As long as they are Unicode.) DW On 3 July 2010 13:24, Lubin, Tim wrote: > Dear Dominik (and anyone else who might be able to help): > > Your message to Indology (below) made me wonder about a couple of things. I am still in the process (!) of trying to set a short Sanskrit critical edition using plain TeX with Edmac and the Velthuis font package. It is the publisher's desire to stick with Velthuis, which (last time I checked) works only with plain TeX. But everywhere I look, when I run into a difficulty, TeX-savvy people are scoffing at the very notion of using plain TeX, yet also still saying that various portings of Edmac to LaTeX are iffy and imperfect (though I myself succeeded in using Ledmac for an edition set in transliteration). > > In your message, you say you are using XeLaTeX with UTF-8, but also Edmac and Velthuis -- something I would like to do as well, but am behind in latest developments. > > Are you using some newer form of Edmac or Ledmac for this? > > Is there a new, improved Velthuis, or Velthuis-look-alike that can work with Ledmac? > > And for godsake has Velthuis ever "learned" how to print a conjunct for /chra/ or /.dra/ ?? Even Word can do that now! > > Tim > ________________________________________ > From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk [ wujastyk at GMAIL.COM] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:59 AM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] AW: [INDOLOGY] OCR for Romanized Sanskrit with Diacritics > > On 18 May 2010 18:32, Kellner, Birgit < kellner at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de >> wrote: > >> >> I am wondering whether Acrobat recognizes diacritics like ?, ?, ? or ? and >> properly selects the fitting Unicode letters. I've never tried - does it, >> Dominik? >> >> Best, >> >> Birgit >> > > > I did some simple tests this morning, and I was startled at how bad the > results were. I scanned a page of a Brill book on indology at 300dpi. I > then ran the resulting jpeg through the ORC of Acrobat 9, using both "exact > image" and "Clearscan". (The latter creates vector fonts on the fly, > matching the look of the fonts in the document. Very clever.) > > After selecting and copying all the text from the resulting PDFs, and > examining them in a plain-text editor (UTF8-aware), the results were > dreadful. Many, many errors, and certainly no diacritcal marks. > > So my earlier impression that current off-the-shelf OCR was mature in > recognising accented characters was completely wrong. And I was rather > shocked at how bad the OCR was even for non-accented text. > > Acrobat 9 is quite a complicated product, and it is possible that there are > settings I am not aware of that could improve the OCR. I had a quick search > through the Preferences to see if one could set character sets for the OCR, > but I couldn't find anything relevant. The basic OCR menu contains a single > language setting, which I had set appropriately. > > I think my "residual memory" of OCR being good on diacritics was a > mis-remembering based on the scenario that when I copy and paste text from > the PDFs produced by my TeX system, as I occasionally do, all the diacritics > are correct, and properly coded in UTF8. I'm using XeLaTeX (with the > xunicode package). > > Best, > Dominik > > !SIG:4bf3a8dd171391969810401! From kellera at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Tue Jul 6 04:32:11 2010 From: kellera at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Agathe Keller) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 10 06:32:11 +0200 Subject: [Fwd: Post-doc History of astronomy and mathematics] Message-ID: <161227089873.23782.12176537968919589262.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5351 Lines: 126 Dear colleagues, Here is an add for a year of post doc on the history of numerical tables, with a very short deadline (july the 15th), if you know someone interested, let me know; i'd help in extending the deadline, if it was too short. sincerely yours, Agathe -------- Message original -------- Sujet : [Theuth] Post-doc d'histoire des math?matiques Date : Mon, 05 Jul 2010 23:21:19 +0400 De : Dominique Tourn?s Pour : THEUTH The research center SPHERE (UMR 7219, CNRS and universit? Paris-Diderot) advertises a postdoctoral position in the history of mathematics for the academic year 2010-2011 (1 September 2010-31 August 2011). This holder of this position is expected to take part in the pluri-annual research program ?History of Numerical Tables? sponsored by a grant from the French Agence Nationale de la Recherche (ANR). More information about this program can be found on the following web site: _http://www.rehseis.univ-paris-diderot.fr/spip.php?article594 _ The applicant will a have a good training in mathematics and will have a Ph.D. thesis (or equivalent) in the history of science defended since less than three years. A good knowledge of English is necessary. Knowledge of one or more other ancient or modern languages will be strongly appreciated. The applicant will moreover be able to use computer programs helpful for the development of data bases and web platforms. The postdoctoral fellow will devote most of his or her time to the study of an original corpus of numerical tables corresponding to his or her field of specialty: data collection in museums, archives and/or libraries, analysis of these sources, publication of original research. The postdoctoral fellow is expected to publish his or her own results in internationally recognized journals, while taking part to the collective work of the team (collected volumes in preparation). He or she may also be called to assist other researchers in the organization of seminars, working group meetings, and international workshops, in the development of data bases and web platforms. To apply, the candidate should send before July 15, 2010: - A detailed CV including description of training in mathematics and history of science; - Thesis defense reports; - A sample of publications since the thesis has been defended; - A research project to be carried out while in tenure of the fellowship (one- to two-page long). For more information, one may contact M. Dominique Tourn?s. _dominique.tournes at univ-reunion.fr _Projet ANR ? Histoire des tables num?riques ? _http://www.rehseis.univ-paris-diderot.fr/spip.php?rubrique148 _Laboratoire SPHERE-REHSEIS (UMR 7219, CNRS et universit? Paris-Diderot) _http://www.rehseis.univ-paris-diderot.fr/_ Bonjour ? toutes et ? tous, Le laboratoire SPHERE (UMR 7219, CNRS et universit? Paris-Diderot) propose un post-doctorat en histoire des math?matiques pour l'ann?e 2010-2011 (1er septembre 2010-31 ao?t 2011), dans le cadre du projet ANR ? Histoire des tables num?riques ? (HTN). Les grandes lignes de ce projet peuvent ?tre consult?es ? l?adresse : _http://www.rehseis.univ-paris-diderot.fr/spip.php?article594 _ Le (la) candidat(e) devra avoir une bonne formation en math?matiques et ?tre titulaire d?une th?se en histoire des sciences soutenue depuis moins de trois ans. Une bonne pratique de l?anglais est indispensable. La connaissance d?autres langues, anciennes ou modernes, sera fortement appr?ci?e. Par ailleurs, le (la) candidat(e) devra ?tre capable d?utiliser des outils informatiques, notamment de participer ? la constitution de bases de donn?es et au d?veloppement d?un site Web. Le (la) post-doctorant(e) se consacrera ? l??tude d?un corpus original de tables num?riques correspondant ? son domaine de sp?cialisation et s?inscrivant dans le projet HTN : collecte des donn?es dans des mus?es, archives et/ou biblioth?ques, analyse de ces sources, publication des in?dits. Le (la) post-doctorant(e) publiera ses propres r?sultats dans des revues tout en collaborant aux ouvrages collectifs de l??quipe. Par ailleurs, il (elle) assistera les autres chercheurs du projet dans l?organisation de s?minaires de travail et de workshops internationaux, dans la constitution de bases de donn?es et dans le d?veloppement d?un siteWeb. Pour faire acte de candidature, pri?re de m?envoyer, avant le 15 juillet 2010, un CV d?taill?, un descriptif de la formation suivie en math?matiques et en histoire des sciences, le rapport de soutenance de la th?se, les publications ?ventuelles r?alis?es depuis la th?se et un projet de recherche (une ? deux pages) pr?cisant les contours de la contribution propos?e. Il est naturellement possible de m??crire au pr?alable pour demander si n?cessaire des informations compl?mentaires. Dominique Tourn?s _dominique.tournes at univ-reunion.fr _Projet ANR ? Histoire des tables num?riques ? _http://www.rehseis.univ-paris-diderot.fr/spip.php?rubrique148 _Laboratoire SPHERE-REHSEIS (UMR 7219, CNRS et universit? Paris-Diderot) _http://www.rehseis.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ _ ********** -- Agathe Keller Universit? PARIS 7 - CNRS Laboratoire SPHERE UMR 7219 Equipe REHSEIS Case 7093 5 rue Thomas Mann 75205 PARIS CEDEX 13 00 33 1 57 27 68 87 From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Jul 6 14:31:50 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 10 16:31:50 +0200 Subject: (Xe)(La)TeX, (L)Edmac, and Velthuis query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089876.23782.6425379621640839778.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 609 Lines: 23 Dear colleagues, A number of you have been kind in your responses to my blog post about using XeLaTeX to do Devanagari, so I've gone further and posted a mini-edition that exemplifies the use of the previous stuff (Unicode romanisation input, with Nagari output), as well as the Ledmac system for formatting a critical edition. The materials are here: - http://cikitsa.blogspot.com/2010/07/minimal-edition-of-sanskrit-verse-using.html Best, Dominik Dr Dominik Wujastyk Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Vienna Austria From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Jul 6 17:04:31 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 10 19:04:31 +0200 Subject: (Xe)(La)TeX, (L)Edmac, and Velthuis query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089879.23782.689346405163997843.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2685 Lines: 99 Dear Timothy, Yes (I presume you don't mean my typo, "v?rsena"), e.g., 4 is where the Somdev Vasudev's RomDev mapping is used. Here's the procedure. 1. The actual mapping file is published by Somdev in his blog, here: http://sarasvatam.blogspot.com/2010/03/updated-teckit-romdev.html 2. Cut and paste this text, and save it in a Unicode file called RomDev.map. Save that file in a place which XeTeX can "see," e.g., something like local/texmf/fonts/misc/xetex/fontmapping/ 3. You now need to compile the human-readable *.map file into a binary *.tec file, so that XeTeX can read it directly. This is done by the program Teckit, which you can get here: http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=TECkitDownloads 4. I'm working with Ubuntu GNU/Linux. For me, the command is, *teckit_compile RomDev.map -o RomDev.tec * I'm afraid I don't know the Windows or Mac command invocation. 5. Now you have a file in a place like local/texmf/fonts/misc/xetex/fontmapping/RomDev.tec 6. Run the command that rebuilds the database of files that TeX knows about. In Linux it's *sudo mktexlsr* 7. That's it! XeTeX can now see, and make use of the RomDev mapping, that converts Unicode transliteration into Devan?gar?. Best, Dominik PS I've copied this posting to my blog, for reference: - http://cikitsa.blogspot.com/2010/07/how-do-i-install-romdev-mapping-for.html On 6 July 2010 18:13, TIMOTHY P. LIGHTHISER wrote: > Hi! > > Thanks for the sample file. > > Everything appeared correctly in the pdf, except the text in the fourth > sample. > > If I may, how does one put to use Somadeva's mapping? > > t > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 7:31 AM, Dominik Wujastyk > wrote: > > Dear colleagues, > > > > A number of you have been kind in your responses to my blog post about > using > > XeLaTeX to do Devanagari, so I've gone further and posted a mini-edition > > that exemplifies the use of the previous stuff (Unicode romanisation > input, > > with Nagari output), as well as the Ledmac system for formatting a > critical > > edition. The materials are here: > > > > - > > > http://cikitsa.blogspot.com/2010/07/minimal-edition-of-sanskrit-verse-using.html > > > > Best, > > Dominik > > > > Dr Dominik Wujastyk > > Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde > > Universit?t Wien > > Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 > > A-1090 Vienna > > Austria > > > > > > -- > Timothy P. Lighthiser > 1263 33rd Avenue > San Francisco, CA 94122-1302 > USA > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Jul 6 19:00:29 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 10 21:00:29 +0200 Subject: (Xe)(La)TeX, (L)Edmac, and Velthuis query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089882.23782.11618426243583510723.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 597 Lines: 25 Now this really does seem like magic. By changing the single command - \setdefaultlanguage{sanskrit} to - \setdefaultlanguage{english} the mini-edition that was in N?gar? now appears in roman transliteration. It's pretty astonishing. Of course, it isn't the language that's changing, just the writing system. So the command should be something like \setdefaultscript rather than ...language. But never mind that, for the time being. It's a proof of concept. For an image of this, see, - http://cikitsa.blogspot.com/2010/07/switching-from-devanagari-to-roman-with.html DW From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Tue Jul 6 21:02:16 2010 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (gthomgt at COMCAST.NET) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 10 21:02:16 +0000 Subject: Access to Updated Vedic Concordance Message-ID: <161227089885.23782.2833799963722461004.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 528 Lines: 24 Dear List, My latest computer crash has cost me access to a a few valuable resources, which I had thought would be easily available online, so I didn't make backups of them. One of these is the updated version of Bloomfield's Vedic Concordance [which I own in its book version].? This updated version was done by Marco Franceschini in 2005.? In my google searches?for this I get only pages that say that this document?is no longer freely accessible. Is this correct? Thanks for any help. George Thompson From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Jul 7 07:32:58 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 10 09:32:58 +0200 Subject: etymological trends in Skt vocabulary - article Message-ID: <161227089888.23782.9362668878211944365.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 898 Lines: 30 Colleagues in this forum might not find this: Author(s):Hellwig, O. Article Title:Etymological trends in the Sanskrit vocabulary Journal Title:LITERARY AND LINGUISTIC COMPUTING ISSN:0268-1145 Year:2010 Volume/Issue:VOL 25; NUMBER 1 Page(s):105-118 Publication frequency:Quarterly: 4 issues per year Publisher: Great Britain : Oxford University Press Language:English Dewey Class:410.285 LC Class:P98 BLDSC shelfmark:5276.633430 Abstract: The article examines how the etymological composition of the Sanskrit lexicon is influenced by time and whether this composition can be used to date Sanskrit texts automatically. For this purpose, statistical tests are applied to a corpus of lexically analyzed texts. Results reported in the article may contribute to the diachronic lexicography of Sanskrit and help to develop computational methods for analyzing anonymous and undated Sanskrit texts. From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Jul 7 11:42:28 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 10 13:42:28 +0200 Subject: Juxta Message-ID: <161227089891.23782.16736659941723366731.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1318 Lines: 38 Colleagues working on manuscript collation might like to look at Juxta. - http://www.juxtasoftware.org/ The blurb says: Juxta is an open-source cross-platform tool for comparing and collating multiple witnesses to a single textual work. The software allows users to set any of the witnesses as the base text, to add or remove witness texts, to switch the base text at will, and to annotate Juxta-revealed comparisons and save the results. Juxta comes with several kinds of analytic visualizations. The primary collation gives a split frame comparison of a base text with a witness text, along with a display of the digital images from which the base text is derived. Juxta displays a heat map of all textual variants and allows the user to locate ? at the level of any textual unit ? all witness variations from the base text. A histogram of Juxta collations is particularly useful for long documents. This visualization displays the density of all variation from the base text and serves as a useful finding aid for specific variants. Juxta can also output a lemmatized schedule (in HTML format) of the textual variants in any set of comparisons. Best, DW Dr Dominik Wujastyk Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Vienna Austria From vjroebuck at BTINTERNET.COM Wed Jul 7 13:19:27 2010 From: vjroebuck at BTINTERNET.COM (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 10 14:19:27 +0100 Subject: Access to Updated Vedic Concordance In-Reply-To: <523628767.158356.1278450136172.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <161227089894.23782.5907843189964312873.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1041 Lines: 20 I am in the same position, after replacing my obsolescent computer. I used to own the updated version of Bloomfield's Vedic Concordance in a searchable version in Nisus Writer. When I looked to replace it from the same site, , I found that there was no version for Mac OS X, though the versions for Windows and Mac Classic were still there. Does anyone know a version that would run on my Mac? Thanks-- Valerie J Roebuck On 6 Jul 2010, at 22:02, gthomgt at COMCAST.NET wrote: > My latest computer crash has cost me access to a a few valuable resources, which I had thought would be easily available online, so I didn't make backups of them. > > > > One of these is the updated version of Bloomfield's Vedic Concordance [which I own in its book version]. This updated version was done by Marco Franceschini in 2005. In my google searches for this I get only pages that say that this document is no longer freely accessible. > > > > Is this correct? From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Wed Jul 7 13:39:09 2010 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 10 15:39:09 +0200 Subject: Access to Updated Vedic Concordance In-Reply-To: <38F9B1DD-F257-421C-9802-79171CF82F53@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <161227089896.23782.10889706341364327530.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 851 Lines: 20 Valerie J Roebuck schrieb: > I am in the same position, after replacing my obsolescent computer. I used to own the updated version of Bloomfield's Vedic Concordance in a searchable version in Nisus Writer. When I looked to replace it from the same site, , I found that there was no version for Mac OS X, though the versions for Windows and Mac Classic were still there. Does anyone know a version that would run on my Mac You may try Masato Fujii's transcript of the Concordance which comes in simple plain text format: URL: It should run with every operating system. Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 D-53113 Bonn From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Wed Jul 7 16:17:40 2010 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 10 18:17:40 +0200 Subject: GRETIL update #373 Message-ID: <161227089901.23782.1437201666204622607.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1063 Lines: 39 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Candrakirti: Prasannapada [or Madhyamakasastravrtti] Harsadeva: Naganandanataka Nagarjuna: Dharmadhatugarbhavivarana Nityakarmapujavidhi Vasubandhu: Trimsikavijnaptikarika, with Sthiramati's Trimsikavijnaptibhasya __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Wed Jul 7 15:30:26 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 10 21:00:26 +0530 Subject: Access to Updated Vedic Concordance In-Reply-To: <4C34837D.9080807@uni-bonn.de> Message-ID: <161227089898.23782.9284557524374318558.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1133 Lines: 34 Thanks! This seems to work Best DB --- On Wed, 7/7/10, Peter Wyzlic wrote: From: Peter Wyzlic Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Access to Updated Vedic Concordance To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 7 July, 2010, 1:39 PM Valerie J Roebuck schrieb: > I am in the same position, after replacing my obsolescent computer. I used to own the updated version of Bloomfield's Vedic Concordance in a searchable version in Nisus Writer. When I looked to replace it from the same site, , I found that there was no version for Mac OS X, though the versions for Windows and Mac Classic were still there. Does anyone know a version that would run on my Mac You may try Masato Fujii's transcript of the Concordance which comes in simple plain text format: URL: It should run with every operating system. Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 D-53113 Bonn From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Thu Jul 8 09:05:21 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 10 04:05:21 -0500 Subject: place in 11th-13th c Kashmir ? In-Reply-To: <499170.77322.qm@web94816.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227089906.23782.13690733518941350862.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1701 Lines: 48 Dear list members, Tibetan sources of the 11th-13th centuries frequently refer to a place called kha che khri [or krig] brtan "khri [or krig] brtan in Kashmir" The spelling khri brtan suggests the possibility of an expression such as *sthiraasana or *dhruvaasana as the source, taking the Tibetan khri in its meaning of "throne, dais" (it has a homonym meaning "a myriad"). (I don't currently have a RaajataraNgani at my disposal, and so would be grateful to anyone who might be able to check whether such expessions are used there in any way that might be significant in this context.) The spelling "krig" reminds me that this is sometimes found as a vulgar transcription of Skt. k.r.s, as in "krig na" = K.r.s.na. (This of course reflects .s = kh as we find sometimes in MIA, Nepali and elsewhere.) But then I'm not sure what to make of the phrase as a whole. It has sometimes been suggested, too, that the Tibetan phrase might have emerged from the Tibetan transcription of the north Asian ethnonym Khitan, but I have never seen this modified by kha che "Kashmir(i), Muslim", nor is it plausible in the 11th-13th c. records with which I am concerned, where Khitan is spelt Khyi tan, and the references to Khri brtan clearly point to northwestern India, or thereabouts, and not to north central Asia. Finally, Khri brtan might name a region -- even Kashmir generally -- or a specific location, and it definitely does not refer to highland places such as Ladakh. I would be grateful for any ideas. I'm quite puzzled. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Jul 8 08:36:14 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 10 10:36:14 +0200 Subject: Job Posting: Senior Research Associate and Director In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089903.23782.4151929095220636730.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3051 Lines: 60 Forwarded message: -----Original Message----- From: Antoinette Klimek [mailto:ark at uchicago.edu] Sent: 07 July 2010 16:43 Greetings, The South Asia Language Resource Center (SALRC) would like to request that the attached announcement be considered for dissemination to the Indology list. This is a job posting for the position of Director of the SALRC. If you deem it is appropriate to have this message sent, we must ask, in accordance with our university's HR policies, that the posting be sent exactly as written in the attached document (no edits). Thank you very much for your time and consideration. Please feel free to contact me with any questions. Sincerely yours, Antoinette Klimek Grants and Program Coordinator, SALRC salrc at uchicago.edu *Senior Research Associate and Director* The Executive Committee of the South Asia Language Resource Center is seeking to hire a Senior Research Associate/Director. The Director is responsible for ensuring the effective operation of SALRC, one of fifteen Language Resource Centers nationwide funded by the U.S. Department of Education. Along with its sister centers, this Center exists to improve the capacity to teach and learn foreign languages effectively. The Director is charged with program planning and execution, policy making, fund raising, grants administration, office management, and staff supervision. The position involves the exercise of independent judgment and requires a mature, experienced academic administrator to competently manage the multiple responsibilities associated with the position. Candidates should hold a Master's or higher degree and be familiar with a modern South Asian language. Preference will be given to candidates with a thorough academic knowledge of South Asian studies and with a Ph.D. degree. Candidates should possess proven organizational abilities and experience in similar large-scale, complex programs as well as excellent intellectual, administrative, and human relations skills. Effective oral and written communication skills and computer literacy are essential. Candidates must demonstrate the ability to conceptualize and implement major initiatives such as program planning and preparation of grant proposals. The ability to lead in a manner conducive to positive morale in a large, collaborative program is also important. Proficiency in South Asian linguistics or language pedagogy and grant writing experience is highly desirable. The position is either a half-time or full-time appointment contingent upon renewed external funding for SALRC. Applicants must upload a cover letter, CV, and names of three references to the University?s academic website: https://academiccareers.uchicago.edu. Paper copies must also be sent to: SALRC Search The Department of South Asian Languages & Civilizations The University of Chicago 1130 East 59th Street Foster Hall, Room 212 Chicago, IL USA 60637-1539 E-mail: salrc at uchicago.edu For full consideration all electronic uploads and paper copies must be received by August 1, 2010. From wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK Thu Jul 8 10:30:07 2010 From: wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK (Whitney Cox) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 10 11:30:07 +0100 Subject: Fwd: ZUKUNFTSPHILOLOGIE: Revisiting the Canons of Textual Scholarship > Three Postdoctoral Fellowships for 2010/11 in Berlin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089912.23782.8822741837132506113.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 9478 Lines: 238 Dear list members, I am forwarding this to the list on behalf of my colleague Manan Ahmed (Institut f?r Islamwissenschaft, Freie Universitat, Berlin), as I imagine it will be of interest to many, Best, Whitney > Dear colleague, > > The Berlin-based Forum Transregionale Studien invites > scholars to apply for three postdoctoral fellowships > for the research project > > ZUKUNFTSPHILOLOGIE: > REVISITING THE CANONS OF TEXTUAL SCHOLARSHIP > for the academic year 2010/11 in Berlin. > > Please find the call for applications below, or as a > PDF document attached to this message. > > I kindly ask you to spread the information about the > fellowships among scholars interested in primary textual > scholarship and in varieties of philology in Asia, Africa, > the Middle East as well as in Europe beyond the medieval/ > modern divide. For the year 2010/2011, research projects > focusing on major philological debates and encounters, > on intellectual debates, polemics and correspondences > are especially welcome. > > We would be grateful if you could post the announcement > at your institution and circulate it, also via email, > among colleagues and scholars who you think would be > qualified and interested in applying for the postdoc- > fellowships. > > The Forum Transregionale Studien is a new research > platform of the Land of Berlin designed to promote > research connecting systematic and region-specific > questions in a perspective that addresses entanglements > and interactions beyond national, cultural or regional > frames. The Forum works in tandem with established > institutions and networks engaged in transregional > studies and is supported by an association of the > directors of research institutes and networks mainly > based in Berlin. It started its activities in 2010 > by supporting three research projects in the fields > of law, philology, and urban sociology. The Forum > Transregionale Studien is funded by the Senate of Berlin. > > For more information, please see our website > (under construction) > www.forum-transregionale-studien.de > > With my best regards > Georges Khalil > > P.S. My apologies for double postings. > > > > CALL FOR APPLICATIONS > THREE POSTDOCTORAL FELLOWSHIPS > FOR THE ACADEMIC YEAR 2010/2011 > (Location: Berlin / Deadline: 9 August 2010) > > The Berlin-based Forum Transregionale Studien invites > scholars to apply for three postdoctoral fellowships for > the research project > > ZUKUNFTSPHILOLOGIE: > REVISITING THE CANONS OF TEXTUAL SCHOLARSHIP > > The project Zukunftsphilologie endeavors to promote and > emphasise primary textual scholarship beyond the classical > humanistic canon. In an age of advanced communication, > intellectual specialisation, and unprecedented migration > of knowledge and people, the discipline of philology > assumes new relevance. Zukunftsphilologie aspires to > support research in marginalised, undocumented and > displaced varieties of philology by revisiting pre- > colonial texts and scholarly traditions in Asia, Africa, > the Middle East as well as in Europe. > > The title ?Zukunftsphilologie? is inspired by the 1872 > polemic between the classicist Ulrich von Wilamowitz- > Moellendorff and Friedrich Nietzsche on the method and > meaning of classical studies. The project draws on recent > calls for a return to philology as particularly emphasised > by Sheldon Pollock in his essay ?Future Philology?? and the > late Edward Said?s essay ?The Return to Philology?. > > In order to promote historically-conscious philology, the > project will foster research in the following areas: the > genealogy and transformations of philological practice, > philology?s place in the system of knowledge (e.g. its > relation to science, theology, and jurisprudence), > philology and the university, and philology and empire. > Zukunftsphilologie aims to examine the role mobility, > calamities, expulsions, and natural catastrophes play in > the dissemination and globalisation of knowledge. How > does the mobility of scholars, books, and manuscripts > bring about scientific innovation (e.g. in tenth-century > Baghdad, during the European Renaissance, or during the > Ming dynasty)? What kind of knowledge systems are also > displaced by these processes of reorganisation? What > transformations and translations accompany such mobili- > sations? > > In addition, Zukunftsphilologie aims to support critical > reviews of historical and philological practice. In > revisiting important philological debates, the goal is > not to merely evaluate the argumentative worth of these > debates, but to reflect on the wider cultural and political > context in which these debates emerged and how they have > shaped our knowledge of the past. > > Zukunftsphilologie is an initiative of the Seminar for > Semitistik and Arabistik at the Freie Universitaet Berlin > and envisages the establishment of a Berlin-based research > group of philologists. The project is coordinated > by Angelika Neuwirth and Islam Dayeh (both Freie Universi- > t?t Berlin), funded and hosted by the Forum Transregionale > Studien. > > CANDIDATES > The fellowships are intended primarily for scholars of > Arabic, Chinese, Hebrew, Persian, Sanskrit, Syriac, > Turkish, and other linguistic and philological traditions > from Africa, Asia and Europe, as well as for scholars > of intellectual and literary history, of comparative > linguistics, philology, religion and the history of > science from outside Berlin, who wish to carry out their > research projects in the framework of the initiative > Zukunftsphilologie in Berlin. Applicants should be at > the postdoctoral level and should have obtained their > doctorate within the last five years. Fellows are given > the opportunity to pursue research projects of their > own choice, provided the topic falls within the research > agenda of the project. During the fellowship in Berlin > they will be integrated into a university or extra- > university research institute. In the overall context of > the project Zukunftsphilologie, they will participate > in regular working meetings of the project group as well > as in lectures, conferences and summer and winter academies, > organised by the project and by the Forum Transregionale > Studien. > > PROJECTS > Individual research projects should fall within one of > the themes of the project Zukunftsphilologie. Projects > should have a comparative perspective, whereby the > plurality of textual practices, polyphonic textuality, > and the trajectories and genealogies of philological > traditions in early modernity are examined. > > For the year 2010/2011, research projects focusing on > intellectual debates, polemics, correspondences, and > transregional encounters are especially welcome. A > revisiting of major philological debates will enable us > to explore the significance of philology in the cultural > and political transformations beyond the modern/pre-modern > divide. Moreover, an examination of philological debates > will shed light on marginal philological traditions and > undocumented intellectual positions as well as the way > in which the canonical positions were consolidated and > normalised. > > FELLOWSHIPS > > may start anytime in the period between October 1, 2010 > and January 1, 2011 and will end on July 31, 2011. > Shorter fellowship terms can be considered. Postdoctoral > fellows will receive a monthly stipend of ? 2.025 plus > supplements depending on their personal situation. > Organisational support regarding visa, insurances, housing, > etc. will be provided. Successful applicants will be fellows > of the project Zukunftsphilologie at the Forum Transregionale > Studien. > > APPLICATION PROCEDURE > > To apply, please send the following documents in English > exclusively by e-mail as single word or PDF file. The > letter of recommendation can be sent directly by e-mail. > > - a curriculum vitae > - a project description (no longer than five pages) stating > what the scholar will work on in Berlin if granted a fellowship > - a sample of scholarly work (maximum 20 pages, article, > book chapter, conference contribution) > - a letter of recommendation from one academic faculty member > > The application should be submitted in English and should > be received by 9 August 2010, addressed to: > > office at trafo-berlin.de > > INSTITUTIONAL FRAMEWORK > The Forum Transregionale Studien is a new research > platform of the Land of Berlin designed to promote > research that connects systematic and region-specific > questions in a perspective that addresses entanglements > and interactions beyond national, cultural or regional > frames. The Forum works in tandem with established > institutions and networks engaged in transregional studies > and is supported by an association of the directors of > research institutes and networks mainly based in Berlin. > It started its activities in 2010 by supporting three > research projects in the fields of law, philology, and > urban sociology. The Forum Transregionale Studien is > funded by the Senate of Berlin. > > For more information please see > www.forum-transregionale-studien.de > > Forum Transregionale Studien > c/o Wissenschaftskolleg zu Berlin > Attn: Georges Khalil > Wallotstra?e 19, D-14193 Berlin / Germany > > -- Dr. Whitney Cox Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, School of Oriental and African Studies Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square London WC1H 0XG From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Jul 8 10:15:09 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 10 12:15:09 +0200 Subject: Xindy for Devanagari Message-ID: <161227089908.23782.8423503682278543711.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1890 Lines: 87 While we (I?) are on a TeX-n-Devanagari roll, Zdenek's recent adaptation of the indexing program Xindy to the sorting and indexing of Devanagari may not have been seen by those who don't subscribe to the Devnag mailing list. *xindy* is an index processor that can be used to generate book-like indexes > for arbitrary document-preparation systems. This includes systems such as > TeX and LaTeX, the roff-family, SGML/XML-based systems (e.g., HTML) that > process some kind of text and generate indexing information. The kernel > system is not fixed to any specific system, but can be configured to work > together with such systems. > DW --- Forwarded message --- Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 00:49:15 +0200 From: Zdenek Wagner Reply-To: General mailing list for Devnag project < devnag-general at lists.sarovar.org> To: general xindy announcements and discussions < xindy-discuss at lists.sourceforge.net>, General mailing list for Devnag project Subject: [Devnag-general] Xindy modules for Hindi and Marathi [ The following text is in the "iso-8859-2" character set. ] [ Your display is set for the "utf-8" character set. ] [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ] Hi all, I have just released the first testing version of xindy modules for Hindi and Marathi. It supports sorting both in Unicode and in a transliteration. The work was started two years ago and took a long time because I was busy with other projects. It is therefore based upon xindy as released with TeX Live 2008. The package is available from http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz/xindy-devanagari/ As described, some problems have not been solved so far. Comments and suggestions are appreciated. -- Zden?k Wagner http://hroch486.icpf.cas.cz/wagner/ http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Jul 8 10:18:54 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 10 12:18:54 +0200 Subject: (Xe)(La)TeX, (L)Edmac, and Velthuis query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089910.23782.7203662025199207227.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 389 Lines: 20 Many thanks to Somdev Vasudev, who has made his RomDev mapping file available not only as source, but now also as a compiled .tec file specifically for Mac users. See - http://indology.info/etexts/archive/soft.shtml under "RomDev". Dr Dominik Wujastyk Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Vienna Austria From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Thu Jul 8 18:09:51 2010 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (gthomgt at COMCAST.NET) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 10 18:09:51 +0000 Subject: Access to Updated Vedic Concordance In-Reply-To: <1092954457.262479.1278612563235.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <161227089924.23782.728150871406224248.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1151 Lines: 35 I second Valerie's note of thanks, and I would hope that the Vedicists among us will also buy the HOS set, in order to support Marco's?valuable?efforts. George Thompson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Valerie J Roebuck" To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Thursday, July 8, 2010 1:30:34 PM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Access to Updated Vedic Concordance Thanks to you, and all who have helped with this. Valerie J Roebuck On 8 Jul 2010, at 17:35, Marco Franceschini wrote: > Dear list members, > > a new Vedic Concordance has been published in 2007 in the HOS series (no. 66), two volumes and CD (Unicode compliant files also). With respect to the 2005 version, the HOS one had been enhanced by the inclusion of some 11,000 mantras taken from Baudhayana Srautasutra. > > Anyhow, you can download the old, free 2005 version at: > > http://orient.dslo.unibo.it/OSite/vedicconc2005.html > > Please note that all the files are now Unicode compliant: they work both on Mac and Windows machines and there's no need to install special fonts any more. > > Best wishes, > > Marco Franceschini From vjroebuck at BTINTERNET.COM Thu Jul 8 17:30:34 2010 From: vjroebuck at BTINTERNET.COM (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 10 18:30:34 +0100 Subject: Access to Updated Vedic Concordance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089918.23782.5084332767568483484.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 742 Lines: 22 Thanks to you, and all who have helped with this. Valerie J Roebuck On 8 Jul 2010, at 17:35, Marco Franceschini wrote: > Dear list members, > > a new Vedic Concordance has been published in 2007 in the HOS series (no. 66), two volumes and CD (Unicode compliant files also). With respect to the 2005 version, the HOS one had been enhanced by the inclusion of some 11,000 mantras taken from Baudhayana Srautasutra. > > Anyhow, you can download the old, free 2005 version at: > > http://orient.dslo.unibo.it/OSite/vedicconc2005.html > > Please note that all the files are now Unicode compliant: they work both on Mac and Windows machines and there's no need to install special fonts any more. > > Best wishes, > > Marco Franceschini From franceschini.marco at FASTWEBNET.IT Thu Jul 8 16:35:09 2010 From: franceschini.marco at FASTWEBNET.IT (Marco Franceschini) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 10 18:35:09 +0200 Subject: Access to Updated Vedic Concordance In-Reply-To: <523628767.158356.1278450136172.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.westchester.pa.mail. comcast.net> Message-ID: <161227089915.23782.4038660229392768159.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 599 Lines: 21 Dear list members, a new Vedic Concordance has been published in 2007 in the HOS series (no. 66), two volumes and CD (Unicode compliant files also). With respect to the 2005 version, the HOS one had been enhanced by the inclusion of some 11,000 mantras taken from Baudhayana Srautasutra. Anyhow, you can download the old, free 2005 version at: http://orient.dslo.unibo.it/OSite/vedicconc2005.html Please note that all the files are now Unicode compliant: they work both on Mac and Windows machines and there's no need to install special fonts any more. Best wishes, Marco Franceschini From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Thu Jul 8 18:05:01 2010 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 10 20:05:01 +0200 Subject: NEW PUBLICATION: Putucceri Manilakkalvettukkal. Pondicherry Inscriptions. Part II (IFP/EFEO) Message-ID: <161227089921.23782.376803820395714141.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1442 Lines: 37 NEW PUBLICATION: SEE *Putucceri Manilakkalvettukkal. Pondicherry Inscriptions. Part II.* Translation, appendices, glossary and phrases by G. Vijayavenugopal ; preface by Emmanuel Francis and Charlotte Schmid ; compiled by Bahour S. Kuppusamy ; edited and translated by G. Vijayavenugopal, Collection Indologie n?83.2, IFP/EFEO, 2010, cxlviii, 379 p. Language: English. 1100 Rs. (48 ?) ISBN (IFP): 978-81-8470-179-1 ISBN (EFEO): 978-285539-103-8 Dr. G. Vijayavenugopal provides a complete English translation of the inscriptions of the territory of Pondicherry and Karaikkal, edited in Part I. The translations represent an attempt to render the nuances of the Tamil syntax of this particular sort of document. Such a volume is something of a landmark: the last volume of South Indian Inscriptions to provide complete translations appeared in 1920?29. A Preface by Emmanuel Francis and Charlotte Schmid explores the form and changing role of the royal eulogy in Tamil that prefaces many Tamil inscriptions. A general introduction, a chapter on language and linguistics and one about the inscriptions as historical source material by Dr. Vijayavenugopal follow this. A glossary, a list of formulaic phrases and several appendices open the corpus up to various potential users. Keywords: epigraphy, royal eulogy, Cola, Tamil From pathompongb at YAHOO.COM Fri Jul 9 15:43:46 2010 From: pathompongb at YAHOO.COM (Pathompong Bodhiprasiddhinand) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 10 08:43:46 -0700 Subject: Position in Buddhist Studies In-Reply-To: <814402.15247.qm@web62402.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227089927.23782.8783733595990282573.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 444 Lines: 22 Dear all, An International PhD Programme in Buddhist Studies of Mahidol University, Thailand (http://www.mahidol.ac.th) is looking for a lecturer specialising in either Chinese Or Tibetan Buddhism. If anyone of you is interested, please write to me off?list. Best wishes, Pathompong Bodhiprasiddhinand Assistant Professor,DPhil PhD Programme in Buddhist Studies Mahidol University, Thailand http://www.sh.mahidol.ac.th/bodhi From h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX Tue Jul 13 01:25:56 2010 From: h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX (Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 10 18:25:56 -0700 Subject: 4th International Symposium on Social Sciences, Globalization and Cultures of Resistance In-Reply-To: <4C3B7142.1050303@gattamelata.com> Message-ID: <161227089932.23782.14959840066731338205.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4121 Lines: 203 Euro-American International University, Global Ethic Foundati Euro-American International University, Global Ethic Foundation and Vedic Friends Association call educational institutions, civic and religious associations, NGOs , reseracher scholars and the general public to participate from 25-27 August 2010 in the? Iberoamerican Technological Institute of Aragon Valley in Metropolitan area of Mexico City: 4th International Symposium on Social Sciences, Globalization and Cultures of Resistance http://redinvestigareligionmexico.blogspot.com/2010/05/4-simposium-internacional-de-ciencias.html http://espanol.groups.yahoo.com/group/Asociacion-Vedica/ http://espanol.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hinduismo-Estudios-de-Religiones/ ??????????????? Masterful Lectures The War again Hunger and illiteracy in the?Indian world today. Dr. Jesus Santos aka? Director of Euro-American International University in Spain and Dharma Foundation President. Medal Winner at Sacrifice for? Comite Iberoamericano de Educaci?n. ? Amor Fati: a thought for a globalized world ? Prfr. Gerardo Martinez Cristerna. President of the Global Ethic Foundation in Mexico. The abortion debate Dr. Howard J. Resnick. Harvard University and professor at the University of Florida The risks to Earth Global Warming Lic. Oscar G. Bojorquez U The importance of ethics in professional education MSc. Juan Jos? Ba?os. UNAM, Director of the Latin American Technological Institute of Aragon Valley. Roundtable Pedophilia. Psycho-social endemic Dr. Mauseng Catalan. Cambodia Peking University and University of Mental Health Sciences Commentators Ethical and moral aspect. Dr. Rodolfo Villareal International University Euroamericana and Sacrifice Award Winner for Education Latin American Council of Education. Dr. Kesava Swami. Euro-American International University. Legal and Criminological Appearance: Dr. Jesus Santos Director of the International University Euroamericana. Book presentation Eye of Hurricane. ( A modenr Puranic Saga) by Dr. Jesus Santos University Foundation Euroamericana and Dharma. Medal Winner at Sacrifice for Education School Board Iberoamericano. Commenters MSc. Jaime Torres Mendoza professor at the Faculty of Arts of the AU to C. MA. Francisco Horacio Juarez Arganis BA in Spanish Literature of the AU of C professor at the UIE. Worktables 1) Global Warming Risks for Humanity and the planet. 2) The activism of the ancient cultures and globaliphobic fundamentalism. ???? 3) The phenomena of cultural genocide by the expansion of globalizing business empires. 4) The importance of dialogue and negotiation and cooperation between religious associations and control of unfair campaigning. ?? 5) The social role of the missions of all religions, in the process of extinction of local cultures of Latin America, Europe, Africa and Asia. ? 6) The Relevance of the preservation of local and ancestral cultures before globalization. 7) Bureau of miscellaneous items The papers should send Office Word format. Arial 12, 8 pages maximum, before Agoust 10 for review and approval. For those accepted will be published in the Journal of Philosophical Studies Institute : Critica The fee is $200.00 mexican pesos for speakers and registered attendees, entitled to Diploma and memories. Listeners are free. Cultural events. There will be put to display the works and books that bring speakers and exponents. Delivery of Diplomas and Closing. Snack Break Reports h.arganisjuarez @ yahoo.com.mx, 844 417 87 52 ? ? Lic. M.A. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad Internacional Euroamericana. Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada. Miembro del Instituto de Estudios Filos?ficos de Saltillo A. C. www.uie.edu.es Lic. M.A. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad Internacional Euroamericana. Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada. Miembro del Instituto de Estudios Filos?ficos de Saltillo A. C. www.uie.edu.es From astol007 at GATTAMELATA.COM Mon Jul 12 19:47:14 2010 From: astol007 at GATTAMELATA.COM (Alexander A. Stolyarov) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 10 23:47:14 +0400 Subject: XVIth Congress of the International Association of Buddhist Studies Message-ID: <161227089929.23782.2048674679083402922.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7365 Lines: 313 *XVI^th Congress of the International Association of Buddhist Studies* * June 20 to June 25, 2011* *Dharma Drum Buddhist College* Jinshan, Taiwan * **Second Circular: May 2010* This is the second circular for the XVI^th Congress of the International Association of Buddhist Studies, to be held at Dharma Drum Buddhist College in Jinshan, Taiwan from June 20-25, 2011. *General Notices:* ? The new conference website is now online: http://iabs2011.ddbc.edu.tw . ? Online abstract submissions begin now, end December 5, 2010. A video tutorial is available online: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tINN8MzvuWY ? Online conference registration/payment will open October 1, 2010. ? A separate *Accommodations Circular* will be sent out in December, 2010 (at latest). ? The conference now has an interactive mailing list (iabs2011-L). To subscribe send Bill an email to that effect. ? It is a policy of the IABS that conference presentations are given in English only. Academic Program The conference will be structured such that all panel and section presentations will be scheduled for specific times. Individual papers will begin on the hour and half-hour as per the conference schedule (to be published April, 2011). This will allow conference members to attend their presentations of choice. *Panels* will consist of either five or six speakers, organized by convenors who are responsible for their thematic unity, academic content, and internal structure. *Sections* on general themes will be formed by the conference planning committee from accepted abstracts, and will also consist of either five or six speakers. Each panel and section will fill one or more three-hour time slots. Panels with only five presenters may end after two and a half hours. Panels For a list of accepted panels, please consult http://iabs2011.ddbc.edu.tw. Sections The planning committee will identify general themes in Buddhist Studies to serve as section titles. Section titles will be decided upon in December, 2010 and will be announced at that time. Abstracts The committee now invites scholars from all areas of Buddhist Studies to submit section paper abstracts. Abstracts should be 500 words or less. Please submit by _December 5, 2010_ to our conference website at http://iabs2011.ddbc.edu.tw/ . A video tutorial on submitting abstracts is available online: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tINN8MzvuWY The committee reserves the right to accept or reject abstracts. Accepted abstracts will be assigned to an appropriate section. Final decisions on all abstracts will be conveyed to participants in February, 2011. Accepted abstracts will be mounted on the conference website without further editorial attention, so please edit your abstract carefully. Note: panel convenors should accept or reject abstracts for their own panels. Authors of accepted panel abstracts should be asked to submit their accepted abstracts to the conference website by _December 5, 2010_ (Bill will produce a second tutorial video explaining how to do this). Panel convenors should also write to conference organizers by this date indicating /the order in which papers will be presented/. Conference Schedule Arrival at the conference is on Monday June 20, 2011. Departure is on Sunday morning, June 26. The following table gives the basic schedule. A detailed schedule of panels and sessions will be announced by April, 2011. *Date* *Morning* *Afternoon* *Evening* M 20 June Arrival, registration Convocation Welcome Reception T 21 June Panels & Sections Panels & Sections Sight-seeing Tours around Jinshan W 22 June Panels & Sections Panels & Sections Traditional Arts Events T 23 June Panels & Sections Excursion Buffet Dinner & Arts Program F 24 June Panels & Sections Panels & Sections Farewell Dinner S 25 June Panels & Sections Panels & Sections Closing Ceremony S 26 June Departure Registration Fees and Procedures The registration fee for the conference will be $250 (Sangha and student rate $150). Those registering before March 31, 2011 will be eligible for the advance registration discount fee of $200 (Sangha and student rate $120). The registration fee includes the following: * traditional Chan monastic breakfast available each morning (7 A.M.) * five vegetarian lunches * coffee and tea breaks daily * two catered dinners (also vegetarian cafeteria available nightly) * two evening receptions * one evening performance * one afternoon excursion * other events to be announced The registration fee does not include accommodation or travel. The planning committee regrets that it cannot provide travel or conference grants under any circumstances. Registration for the conference will be online, through a secure server accessed through the conference website. *Online registration will begin on October 1, 2010* and will remain open until June 10, 2011. Register by March 31, 2011 to qualify for the discounted rate. If personal circumstances do not allow for online registration and you wish to qualify for the discounted rate, please contact the planning committee to make special arrangements. Those desiring the student rates should provide proof of their status as a student. Please note that all attendees must be fully-paid members of IABS at the time of the conference. Accommodations Since accommodations on Dharma Drum Mountain itself are limited to dormitory-style rooms, many attendees will prefer to stay in nearby beach-front and hot-springs spa hotels. We are negotiating discounted rates at a number of locations. A separate *Accommodations Circular* will be sent out December, 2010 at latest. Attendees will be able to reserve rooms at that time. IABS Membership All conference participants must be current subscribing IABS members in the year of the conference. To join the International Association of Buddhist Studies, please follow the instructions found on the IABS website at www.iabsinfo.net . Those who are not current members by the start of the conference will be asked to subscribe on site. Third Circular The third circular will be sent out in April, 2011. This will include a schedule for the academic program as well as further details about conference events. We regret that those who have not submitted an abstract by the published deadline (_December 5, 2010_) cannot be included in the conference schedule. The third circular will give an updated conference program, travel information and other practical details. Officers of the Planning Committee President: Prof. Huimin Bhikshu Chair: Profs. William Magee and Jenjou Hung Convenor: Prof. Aming Tu Advisory Board: Prof. Ann Heirman Prof. Sara McClintock Prof. Peter Skilling Prof. Tom Tillemans From hopeforageneration at GMAIL.COM Tue Jul 13 05:37:48 2010 From: hopeforageneration at GMAIL.COM (patrick mccartney) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 10 15:37:48 +1000 Subject: hindi shabdakosh Message-ID: <161227089935.23782.10925728591913224211.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 258 Lines: 20 Dear List, I would appreciate knowing where to find a pdf of a Hindi to English dictionary. thanks, -- Patrick McCartney - PO Box 704 Walkerville South Australia 5081 SKYPE: cranky-mechanic ?? ????? ??????? tava hRdayaM anugaccha Follow your heart From dclammerts at GMAIL.COM Tue Jul 13 09:12:20 2010 From: dclammerts at GMAIL.COM (Christian Lammerts) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 10 17:12:20 +0800 Subject: CFP: Buddhist Dynamics in Premodern Southeast Asia, Nalanda-Sriwijaya Centre, Singapore, 10-11 March 2011 Message-ID: <161227089938.23782.4532630237712772731.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4137 Lines: 94 Call for Papers Conference Title: Buddhist Dynamics in Premodern Southeast Asia Dates: 10-11 March 2011 Place: Nalanda-Sriwijaya Centre, Institute of Southeast Asian Studies, Singapore Buddhism was the dominant cultural force throughout much of Southeast Asia in premodernity, from the early realms of Funan, Dvaravati, Sriksetra, Srivijaya, Haripunjaya, and Champa, through the medieval kingdoms of Dai Viet, Pagan, Angkor, Majapahit, and Sukhothai, to the later polities of Mrauk U, Ava, Lan Xang, Sipsongpanna, and elsewhere. Buddhists here were responsible for an array of innovations across diverse fields of learning, ranging from medicine, law, alchemy, political science, and grammar to scriptural hermeneutics, ritual and apotropaic techniques, and art and architecture. However, the Buddhist culture of premodern Southeast Asia cannot be understood as univocal, and is marked instead by a dynamism and difference that varies across geography and time. Today the study of Buddhism in premodern Southeast Asia stands at a critical and promising juncture. Research on regional manuscript libraries has brought to light hitherto unknown vernacular, Pali, and Sanskrit texts. New inscriptions and art historical and archaeological finds continue to be uncovered. There are redoubled efforts to make these materials available for study and, most importantly, increasing interest in them among young scholars of Buddhism. Recent scholarship has been marked by a turn towards careful examinations of local and vernacular expressions of Buddhist culture as well as a return to long-standing questions concerning the regional diffusion and interrelationship among varied texts, aesthetic forms, and religious ideas and practices. Yet much more work remains to be done on both the local and comparative analysis of Southeast Asian Buddhist histories. The Nalanda-Sriwijaya Centre at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies invites paper proposals for an interdisciplinary conference on premodern Southeast Asian Buddhism to be held in Singapore, March 10-11, 2011. The conference aims to bring together international scholars engaged in research on Buddhist archaeological, textual, or art historical sources produced across the region from the early first millennium C.E. until circa the 18th century. We invite proposals that interrogate the broad interpretive thematic of the dynamic interplay between the local and the regional through the critical study of manuscripts, archaeological sites, inscriptions, images, and/or artefacts. We especially encourage proposals that are comparative and interdisciplinary in scope. Potential papers might, for example, address: -- Cultural and material exchange among regional Buddhist centres and monastic communities -- Comparative Southeast Asian Buddhist texts, images, and practices -- The engagement of Buddhism with Brahmanism and other religions in Southeast Asia -- New archaeological, literary, or art historical discoveries -- The cultural significance of Buddhist translation and cosmopolitan and vernacular languages -- The place of India, Sri Lanka, and China in Southeast Asian Buddhist history -- The importance of trade, pilgrimage, and agriculture to regional Buddhist geographies Paper proposals should include a title and a 400-word abstract, together with a short biography of the applicant. All participants will be provided with three nights accommodation in Singapore. Requests for assistance with airfare, especially from Asian countries, will be sympathetically considered. Proposals should be received by 31 August 2010 and successful applicants will be informed of their acceptance by 15 September 2010. Proposals should be directed to: ?Buddhist Dynamics in Premodern Southeast Asia? Conference Nalanda-Sriwijaya Centre Institute of Southeast Asian Studies 30 Heng Mui Keng Terrace Singapore 119614 Email: nscconferences at iseas.edu.sg Web: http://www.iseas.edu.sg/nsc/ Questions about the conference may be addressed to Dr. Christian Lammerts at: dclammerts at gmail.com Conference Committee: Christian Lammerts Geoff Wade John Miksic Tansen Sen From peter_scharf at BROWN.EDU Wed Jul 14 02:08:58 2010 From: peter_scharf at BROWN.EDU (Peter Scharf) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 10 22:08:58 -0400 Subject: Sanskrit terms for Sanskrit dialects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089940.23782.14365835885049104303.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1157 Lines: 33 Is anyone aware of traditional Sanskrit terms for Sanskrit dialects that would be equivalent to the following? Vedic Classical Epic Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit Of course Panini distinguished between chandas and bhaa.saa and also specified usages in particular Vedic traditions (yajus, mantra, etc.). The term 'chandas' might be taken to be equivalent to 'Vedic'. However, I am not aware of any traditional terms for the other three. Are you? I ask because I proposed that tags based on these four terms be adopted as standard xml language variant subtags. Some respondents want Indigenous terms, and are especially sensitive to the term 'classical'. Any suggestions? Peter ********************************************************* Peter M. Scharf (401) 863-2720 office Department of Classics (401) 863-2123 dept. Brown University PO Box 1856 (401) 863-7484 fax Providence, RI 02912 Scharf at brown.edu http://www.research.brown.edu/research/profile.php?id=10044 http://sanskritlibrary.org/ ********************************************************* From peterfriedlander at YAHOO.COM.AU Wed Jul 14 11:17:02 2010 From: peterfriedlander at YAHOO.COM.AU (Peter Friedlander) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 10 04:17:02 -0700 Subject: Hindi Sabdakosh In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089953.23782.11702785257492784244.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 563 Lines: 27 Dear Colleagues, why look for pdf files? There are now superb online dictionaries. In particular Chaturvedi's English-Hindi dictionary at http://dsal.uchicago.edu/dictionaries/caturvedi/ also the whole of the eleven volumes of the most respected Hindi to Hindi dictionary the Sabdasagar is also now on the dsal site. regards Peter --------------------------- Dr Peter G. Friedlander Senior Lecturer in Hindi Language and Buddhist Studies La Trobe University, Victoria 3086 Australia Tel: +61 3 9579 1400 Email: p.friedlander at latrobe.edu.au From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Jul 14 02:22:39 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 10 04:22:39 +0200 Subject: Multilingualism in India Message-ID: <161227089943.23782.5094258999742171760.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1021 Lines: 30 Kindly copy responses to the following query from Jan Kruse directly to the author (), who is not a member of the INDOLOGY list. -------- Original-Nachricht -------- Datum: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 17:23:55 +0200 Von: Jan Kruse [...] I am a doctoral student in social linguistics (with Prof. Dr. Ammon, Universtity of Duisburg, Germany) and as wel employed within the EU research programm DYLAN (www.dylan-project.org), both occupations are dealing with European language policy. The European three-language model is often compared with the Indian three-language formula. For the INDOLOGY list, I mainly have one question, regarding the factual plurilingual competence of the Indian population which could be compared with the results of Eurobarometer studies. I would like to ask the INDOLOGY list community whether anybody knows about relevant data material about plurilingualism in India. Thank you very much for considering my query. With kind regards Jan Kruse From baums at UW.EDU Wed Jul 14 02:29:29 2010 From: baums at UW.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 10 11:29:29 +0900 Subject: Sanskrit terms for Sanskrit dialects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089945.23782.8638404629062431289.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 377 Lines: 19 Dear Peter, > Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit the Sanskrit grammarian Kum?ral?ta uses ?r?a to refer to ?a grammatically irregular form of language employed by the Buddha? (Seyfort Ruegg, 1998, review of SWTF, JAOS 118: 553; cf. von Hin?ber, 2001, Das ?ltere Mittelindisch im ?berblick, ? 43). Cheers, Stefan -- Dr. Stefan Baums Graduate School of Literature Bukkyo University From zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE Wed Jul 14 10:14:58 2010 From: zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE (Robert Zydenbos) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 10 12:14:58 +0200 Subject: intensive courses in Kannada and Telugu Message-ID: <161227089950.23782.17589452830073328205.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1721 Lines: 38 Since a few years we offer "Almindologie": intensive courses in Indian languages in a mountain chalet south of Munich, at approximately one hour's travel by train or car from the city. This time the Almindologie will last for 8 days. In this period, participants in our courses receive learning materials, lodging, and three freshly prepared meals a day in quiet, beautiful, peaceful surroundings that optimize learning, without urban disturbances. The costs vary according to the number of courses in which one wishes to participate. This year we again offer an intensive course in Kannada for beginners (August 2nd-9th, with 4 hours of teaching per day). Experience shows that in this one intensive period one learns more than during a whole semester of regular teaching at the university. The supplied learning manual is in English, and teaching has till now been in German (because all the participants till now have been German speakers), but if at least a significant minority prefers English, it will be English. Besides Kannada, there is also a first introduction to Telugu (August 2nd-5th ) and an advanced course in Sanskrit (August 5th-9th). As the number of participants is limited due to the available lodging facilities, it is recommended that interested persons register soon. More information can be found at http://www.manya-institut.de/almindologie/almindologie-2010.html or requested by e-mail at almindologie [at] manya-institut.de RZ Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Department f?r Asienstudien - Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie Universit?t M?nchen Deutschland Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827 Web http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~zydenbos From mark.allon at SYDNEY.EDU.AU Wed Jul 14 02:43:37 2010 From: mark.allon at SYDNEY.EDU.AU (Mark Allon) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 10 12:43:37 +1000 Subject: Sanskrit terms for Sanskrit dialects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089948.23782.11412557848529741317.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 483 Lines: 15 Dear Peter, > Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit Further to Stefan's references for ?r?a, see Seyfort Ruegg. 2000. ?On the Expressions chandaso ?ropema, ?yataka g?tassara, sarabha??a and ?r?a as Applied to the ?Word of the Buddha?.? In Ryutaro Tsuchida and Albrecht Wezler, eds., Har?nandalahar?. Volume in Honour of Professor Minoru Hara on his Seventeenth Birthday, pp. 283?306. Reinbek: Verlag f?r Orientalistische Fachpublikationen. Regards Mark Dr Mark Allon University of Sydney From james_fitzgerald at BROWN.EDU Wed Jul 14 18:25:10 2010 From: james_fitzgerald at BROWN.EDU (Fitzgerald, James) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 10 14:25:10 -0400 Subject: Hindi Sabdakosh In-Reply-To: <873186.82693.qm@web65714.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227089959.23782.5662364634039476100.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 837 Lines: 35 Well, you can load a .pdf onto a Kindle or an iPad and use it on a plane or anywhere else you may be away from a computer or a connection. jlf On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 7:17 AM, Peter Friedlander < peterfriedlander at yahoo.com.au> wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > why look for pdf files? There are now superb online dictionaries. > > In particular Chaturvedi's English-Hindi dictionary at > http://dsal.uchicago.edu/dictionaries/caturvedi/ > also the whole of the eleven volumes of the most respected Hindi to Hindi > dictionary the Sabdasagar is also now on the dsal site. > > regards > > Peter > > --------------------------- > Dr Peter G. Friedlander > Senior Lecturer in Hindi Language and Buddhist Studies > La Trobe University, > Victoria 3086 > Australia > Tel: +61 3 9579 1400 > Email: p.friedlander at latrobe.edu.au > > > > > > From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Wed Jul 14 17:05:16 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 10 22:35:16 +0530 Subject: Sanskrit terms for Sanskrit dialects Message-ID: <161227089956.23782.13383549544624907578.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2314 Lines: 57 --- On Wed, 14/7/10, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit terms for Sanskrit dialects To: "Peter Scharf" Date: Wednesday, 14 July, 2010, 5:03 PM As far as I know Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit was not recognized as a separate language by literary critics or grammarians. There is a convention of treating all irregular forms as apa?abda. The word ?r?a ?(employment) by the sage? is used to mean the employment of irregular words by high authorities/great poets that has been accepted by critics. ?There is no term for regular ?irregularities? as in Buddhist Sanskrit. Since ?Da??in regional distinction in literary style has been extensively treated by literary critics from the 7th -8th century onwards. The most prominent styles were Gau?? and Vaidarbh? Best DB --- On Wed, 14/7/10, Peter Scharf wrote: From: Peter Scharf Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit terms for Sanskrit dialects To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 14 July, 2010, 2:08 AM Is anyone aware of traditional Sanskrit terms for Sanskrit dialects that would be equivalent to the following? Vedic Classical Epic Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit Of course Panini distinguished between chandas and bhaa.saa and also specified usages in particular Vedic traditions (yajus, mantra, etc.).? The term 'chandas' might be taken to be equivalent to 'Vedic'.? However, I am not aware of any traditional terms for the other three.? Are you? I ask because I proposed that tags based on these four terms be adopted as standard xml language variant subtags.? Some respondents want Indigenous terms, and are especially sensitive to the term 'classical'.? Any suggestions? Peter ********************************************************* Peter M. Scharf? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???(401) 863-2720 office Department of Classics? ? ? ? ? ???(401) 863-2123 dept. Brown University PO Box 1856? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???(401) 863-7484 fax Providence, RI 02912? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Scharf at brown.edu http://www.research.brown.edu/research/profile.php?id=10044 http://sanskritlibrary.org/ ********************************************************* From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Fri Jul 16 17:39:33 2010 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 10 10:39:33 -0700 Subject: Four kavis Message-ID: <161227089962.23782.17391846523062077777.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 172 Lines: 4 Four "kavis" are referred to in Tamil -- in Sanskrit they would be ??u, madhura, citra and vist?ra. Does anyone know a Sanskrit source for these? Thanks. George Hart From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Mon Jul 19 04:10:21 2010 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 10 21:10:21 -0700 Subject: Sanskrit daily Message-ID: <161227089964.23782.4230216206549765386.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 282 Lines: 10 I just learned that Sudharma(a), the Sanskrit daily that is published from Mysore, is celebrating its 40th anniversary today. The e-edition can be seen at sudharma.epapertoday.com/ The daily receives no government support. The publishers welcome donations. ashok aklujkar From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Jul 19 10:33:06 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 10 12:33:06 +0200 Subject: Har Dutt Sharma's BORI catalogue of Vaidyaka MSS, vol 16. part 1. Message-ID: <161227089967.23782.12300848230304463644.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 70 Lines: 6 Does anyone happen to have this catalogue at their elbow? Dominik From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Tue Jul 20 14:11:36 2010 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 10 09:11:36 -0500 Subject: Arthasastra Commentary Message-ID: <161227089979.23782.1813473323806333967.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1046 Lines: 14 Dear All: Two question to the ??stripari?ad regarding the commentary on the Artha??stra by ?a?kar?rya called "Jayama?gal?" and Bhik?u Prabh?mati's called "C??akya??k?": 1) This was published in Sarasvatibhavana Granthamala, Sampurnanand Sanskrit University, Varanasi with three other commentaries. I have two parts of volume one, and two parts of volume two. However, the second part of volume one ends at the 12th chapter of the first book of the AS. The first part of the second volume begins with the first chapter of the second book. Theoretically, therefore, there should be a third part of the first volume. I have not been able to locate it anywhere. Do you all know whether that part containing chapter 13-21 of the first book was ever published? 2) Kangle (vol. 2, p. 16) says that this commentary was published by G. Harihara Sastri in the Journal of Oriental Research. I found the last part (2nd book of AS) in volumes 26 (1956-57). Do you know what year the first part(s) was published? Thanks for any help. Patrick Olivelle From fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Jul 20 13:55:25 2010 From: fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM (Benjamin Fleming) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 10 09:55:25 -0400 Subject: Yogic Perception, Meditation and Altered States of Consciouness - book now online In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089976.23782.13049525882236902795.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1746 Lines: 53 The introduction by Eli Franco is, however, available for download. http://epub.oeaw.ac.at:80/6648-1inhalt?frames=yes Best, Ben -- Benjamin Fleming Visiting Scholar, Dept. of Religious Studies, University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street, Claudia Cohen Hall, #234 Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A. Telephone - 215-746-7792 http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~bfleming > Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:08:29 +0200 > From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Yogic Perception, Meditation and Altered States of Consciouness - book now online > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Apologies all round. I thought the ?aw had made the digital book publicly > available, in line with their open access policy ( > http://verlag.oeaw.ac.at/content/Open-Access.html). But it seems that it is > still, in fact, locked behind a password system. Although I checked this > before posting the notice below, by logging in via a computer in another > country, my checking somehow wasn't adequate. > > Apologies again. > Dominik > > > On 20 July 2010 13:43, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > > Eli Franco and Dagmar Eigner (eds.), *Yogic Perception, Meditation and > > Altered States of Consciouness* (Vienna: Austrian Academy of Sciences, > > 2009). > > > > ISBN-13: 978-3-7001-6648-1 > > ISBN-13 Online: 978-3-7001-6719-8 > > > > The chapters of this important publication are now available online, > > from here: http://epub.oeaw.ac.at/6648-1inhalt?frames=yes > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Jul 20 11:43:14 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 10 13:43:14 +0200 Subject: Yogic Perception, Meditation and Altered States of Consciouness - book now online Message-ID: <161227089970.23782.13813587973987326175.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 342 Lines: 12 Eli Franco and Dagmar Eigner (eds.), *Yogic Perception, Meditation and Altered States of Consciouness* (Vienna: Austrian Academy of Sciences, 2009). ISBN-13: 978-3-7001-6648-1 ISBN-13 Online: 978-3-7001-6719-8 The chapters of this important publication are now available online, from here: http://epub.oeaw.ac.at/6648-1inhalt?frames=yes From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Jul 20 13:08:29 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 10 15:08:29 +0200 Subject: Yogic Perception, Meditation and Altered States of Consciouness - book now online In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089973.23782.3485544920447882116.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 859 Lines: 27 Apologies all round. I thought the ?aw had made the digital book publicly available, in line with their open access policy ( http://verlag.oeaw.ac.at/content/Open-Access.html). But it seems that it is still, in fact, locked behind a password system. Although I checked this before posting the notice below, by logging in via a computer in another country, my checking somehow wasn't adequate. Apologies again. Dominik On 20 July 2010 13:43, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Eli Franco and Dagmar Eigner (eds.), *Yogic Perception, Meditation and > Altered States of Consciouness* (Vienna: Austrian Academy of Sciences, > 2009). > > ISBN-13: 978-3-7001-6648-1 > ISBN-13 Online: 978-3-7001-6719-8 > > The chapters of this important publication are now available online, > from here: http://epub.oeaw.ac.at/6648-1inhalt?frames=yes > > From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Tue Jul 20 15:18:43 2010 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 10 17:18:43 +0200 Subject: GRETIL update #374 Message-ID: <161227089982.23782.15592385987732684232.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1066 Lines: 42 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Civaravastu Karmavastu Kathinavastu Kosambakavastu Parivasikavastu Posadhasthapanavastu Pudgalavastu __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From andra.kleb at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Tue Jul 20 21:24:40 2010 From: andra.kleb at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (Andrey Klebanov) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 10 23:24:40 +0200 Subject: madhuko=?utf-8?Q?=C5=9Ba?= Message-ID: <161227089985.23782.2546742930704083383.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 226 Lines: 11 Dear all! does anyone by any chance happen to have a pdf (or any other format) of M?dhavanid?na with (!) Madhuko?a? I'm particularly interested in the chapter on ?mav?ta. thanks and with warmest regards Andrey Klebanov From harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Jul 21 11:08:23 2010 From: harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM (Harsha Dehejia) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 10 11:08:23 +0000 Subject: Madhvacharya Message-ID: <161227089991.23782.7496525175214049383.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 244 Lines: 27 Friends~ Madhvacharya equates Brahman with Vishnu. Does anybody have the exact sutra in which he says this? Thanks. Harsha Harsha V. Dehejia Professor of Indian Studies, Carleton University Ottawa,ON. Canada. From zysk at HUM.KU.DK Wed Jul 21 09:35:30 2010 From: zysk at HUM.KU.DK (Kenneth Zysk) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 10 11:35:30 +0200 Subject: Dr. Bhau Daji Memorial, Bombay Message-ID: <161227089988.23782.2933345902709862711.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 414 Lines: 29 I should appreciate any information about Dr. Bhau Daji Memorial, Bombay. Many thanks, Ken Kenneth Zysk Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Asian Studies Section Artillerivej 86 DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark Ph: +45 3532 8951 Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk From mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM Wed Jul 21 11:22:47 2010 From: mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 10 13:22:47 +0200 Subject: Paryantapa=?utf-8?Q?=C3=B1c=C4=81=C5=9Bik=C4=81?= (attributed to Abhinavagupta) Message-ID: <161227089994.23782.6364388268934020966.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 505 Lines: 10 Dear Friends, I would highly appreciate if someone could let me have any information regarding the Mss of the above mentioned text in any of the Ms libraries around the world. After a very exhaustive search I have only been able to find a single palm-leaf Ms in Malayalam script in Trivendrum. This Ms was also used by Dr. V. Raghavan for his edition of the Paryantapa?c??ik? (1951). I would highly appreciate any information about this. Thank you very much in advance. Yours sincerely, Mrinal Kaul From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Jul 21 12:07:08 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 10 14:07:08 +0200 Subject: Asiatic Society of Bombay, catalogue Message-ID: <161227089997.23782.4557539435356701334.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 541 Lines: 18 Does anyone have easy access to a copy of *Catalogue of manuscripts and books belonging to the Bhau Daji memorial : Prepared unter the superintendence of the honible Rao Saheb Vishavanath Mandlik ... and Ardasur Framjee Moos* ... (1882). i.e., entry #31 in Janert's Annotated Bibliography of catalogues, or #0113 in Biswas's Bib. Survey Ind. MSS Cats.? I can find copies in the BL, London and the Staatsbibliothek, Berlin, and Biswas mentions some in India. I can't find any digital copy (DLI, archive.org). Thanks, Dominik Wujastyk From mahesrajpant at MSN.COM Thu Jul 22 11:30:13 2010 From: mahesrajpant at MSN.COM (Mahes Raj Pant) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 10 13:30:13 +0200 Subject: Arthasastra Commentary In-Reply-To: <5E47863F-6248-402A-8681-B5EEFD3125C6@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <161227090000.23782.17136556112071226301.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1874 Lines: 34 I have the whole edition, in the book form, of the Arths.aasrta-vyaakhyaa - JayamaNgalaa, ed. by G.Harihara Sastri, and published in 1958 from the Kuppuswami Sastri Research Institute, Madras. The commentary was first published in instalments in the Journal of the Oriental reseach Institute, and later it was issued in the book form. The first part of the commentary was originally punlished likewise in the same volume of the Journal. Mahes Raj Pant > Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 09:11:36 -0500 > From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Arthasastra Commentary > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Dear All: > > Two question to the ??stripari?ad regarding the commentary on the Artha??stra by ?a?kar?rya called "Jayama?gal?" and Bhik?u Prabh?mati's called "C??akya??k?": > > 1) This was published in Sarasvatibhavana Granthamala, Sampurnanand Sanskrit University, Varanasi with three other commentaries. I have two parts of volume one, and two parts of volume two. However, the second part of volume one ends at the 12th chapter of the first book of the AS. The first part of the second volume begins with the first chapter of the second book. Theoretically, therefore, there should be a third part of the first volume. I have not been able to locate it anywhere. Do you all know whether that part containing chapter 13-21 of the first book was ever published? > > 2) Kangle (vol. 2, p. 16) says that this commentary was published by G. Harihara Sastri in the Journal of Oriental Research. I found the last part (2nd book of AS) in volumes 26 (1956-57). Do you know what year the first part(s) was published? > > Thanks for any help. > > Patrick Olivelle _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Jul 23 07:29:55 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 10 09:29:55 +0200 Subject: IGNCA Message-ID: <161227090004.23782.1445741301808449244.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 143 Lines: 8 Can someone tell me who is the current director of the IGNCA in Delhi (successor to Dr Gayacharan Tripathi)? Many thanks, Dominik Wujastyk From mahesrajpant at MSN.COM Fri Jul 23 08:37:00 2010 From: mahesrajpant at MSN.COM (Mahes Raj Pant) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 10 10:37:00 +0200 Subject: Arthasastra Commentary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090006.23782.7514663829244565686.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2623 Lines: 45 As my note says, the JayamaNgalaa was first published in vol.26 of the Journal in parts during the years 1956 and 1957. Maybe the book is still available in some shops where antique books are available. Mahes Raj Pant From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Arthasastra Commentary Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 06:54:49 -0500 To: mahesrajpant at msn.com Thank you very much for this information. Our library has only volume 27 (1957) and on, but not the earlier ones. Do you know in what volume the earlier sections were published, and if copies of the edition is available anywhere for sale? Thanks.Patrick Olivelle On Jul 22, 2010, at 6:30 AM, Mahes Raj Pant wrote:I have the whole edition, in the book form, of the Arths.aasrta-vyaakhyaa - JayamaNgalaa, ed. by G.Harihara Sastri, and published in 1958 from the Kuppuswami Sastri Research Institute, Madras. The commentary was first published in instalments in the Journal of the Oriental reseach Institute, and later it was issued in the book form. The first part of the commentary was originally punlished likewise in the same volume of the Journal. Mahes Raj Pant > Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 09:11:36 -0500 > From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Arthasastra Commentary > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Dear All: > > Two question to the ??stripari?ad regarding the commentary on the Artha??stra by ?a?kar?rya called "Jayama?gal?" and Bhik?u Prabh?mati's called "C??akya??k?": > > 1) This was published in Sarasvatibhavana Granthamala, Sampurnanand Sanskrit University, Varanasi with three other commentaries. I have two parts of volume one, and two parts of volume two. However, the second part of volume one ends at the 12th chapter of the first book of the AS. The first part of the second volume begins with the first chapter of the second book. Theoretically, therefore, there should be a third part of the first volume. I have not been able to locate it anywhere. Do you all know whether that part containing chapter 13-21 of the first book was ever published? > > 2) Kangle (vol. 2, p. 16) says that this commentary was published by G. Harihara Sastri in the Journal of Oriental Research. I found the last part (2nd book of AS) in volumes 26 (1956-57). Do you know what year the first part(s) was published? > > Thanks for any help. > > Patrick Olivelle Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Jul 23 09:45:50 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 10 11:45:50 +0200 Subject: IGNCA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090009.23782.5089754185262241906.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1130 Lines: 37 This is a situation where answering to the group would be better than (auto-)answer to me personally, because I've had almost as many different answers as kind respondents. 1. Dr. Dipti S. Tripathi (Director of NAMAMI last March) 2. Dipti Tripathy one of the professor of Sanskrit from Delhi University is the successor of Dr. Gayacharan Tripathy. 3. Shri Chinmaya R. Gharekhan. 4. Dr.Jyotindra Jain. My understanding, from 2009 was that the director of NAMAMI was Dr. Vijay Shankar Shukla. Has he *already* been replaced by Dr Tripathi? Aha: the NAMAMI website is a bit more transparent than the IGNCA one: Tripathi is Director, Shukla is senior research officer. So, NAMAMI is clear. What about IGNCA. Answers on a postcard, please, to INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk First prize for the lucky winner will be universal admiration. D On 23 July 2010 09:29, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Can someone tell me who is the current director of the IGNCA in Delhi > (successor to Dr Gayacharan Tripathi)? > > Many thanks, > Dominik Wujastyk > > From shrimaitreya at GMAIL.COM Fri Jul 23 10:14:36 2010 From: shrimaitreya at GMAIL.COM ((Maitreya) Borayin Larios) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 10 12:14:36 +0200 Subject: IGNCA Message-ID: <161227090011.23782.5351241565790170194.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5013 Lines: 207 Dear Dominik and listmembers, On the webpage of IGNCA which has been updated on the 16th July 2010 one can find following information: *BOARD OF TRUSTEES* *MEMBER OF EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE* *1* *Shri Chinmaya R. Gharekhan, *President C ? 362, Defence Colony New Delhi ? 110 024 *1* *Shri Chinmaya R. Gharekhan, *Chairman C ? 362, Defence Colony New Delhi ? 110 024 *2* *Dr.(Mrs.) Kapila Vatsyayan* 85, SFS, DDA Flats, Gulmohar Enclave, New Delhi - 110 049 *2* *Shri Salman Haider* A-3, First Floor, Nizamuddin East New Delhi - 110 013 *3* *Shri Ratan Tata* Chairman, Tata Sons Ltd., Tata House, Mumbai - 400 001 *3* *Shri Kanti Bajpayee *Head Master The Doon School Mal Road, Dehradun - 248 001 *4* *Shri Salman Haider* A-3, First Floor, Nizamuddin East New Delhi - 110 013 *4* *Shri Anil Baijal* 10, Lodhi Estate, New Delhi ? 110 003 *5* *Dr. Roddam Narasimha *Chairman, Engineering Mechanics Unit Jawahar Nehru Centre for Advanced Scientific Research Jakkur P.O., Bangalore 110 012 *5* *Prof. Jyotindra Jain* Member Secretary, IGNCA Janpath, New Delhi - 110 001 *6* *Prof. A. Ramachandra* 22, Bharati Colony, Vikas Marg, New Delhi 110 092 *7* *Shri Kanti Bajpayee *Head Master The Doon School Mal Road, Dehradun - 248 001 *8* *Shri Anil Baijal* 10, Lodhi Estate, New Delhi ? 110 003 *9* *Prof. Jyotindra Jain* Member Secretary, IGNCA Janpath, New Delhi - 110 001 *10* *Prof. U. R. Ananthamurthy* No. 498 "Suragi", H. I. G. House, RMV 2nd Stage, 6th 'A' Main, Bangalore - 560094 *11* *Dr. Padma Subrahmanyam* Director, "Nrityodaya", Old #6, 4th Main Road, Gandhi Nagar Chennai - 600 020 *12* *Dr. Kiran Mazumdar - Shah* Biocon India Limited 20th K.M. Hosur Road, Hebbagodi Bangalore - 561229 *13* *Secretary* Ministry of Culture, Government of India *Name* *Designation* *Email* *Prof. Jyotindra Jain ????. ??????????? ???* *Member Secretary ????? ????* msignca at yahoo.com ms at ignca.nic.in jyotindrajain at yahoo.com *Mr. Pravin Srivastava ???? ?????? ??????????* *Joint Secretary ??????? ????* jsignca at yahoo.com *Mr. Jaisingh Meena ???? ?????? ????* * Director (Admn) ?????? (???????)* jmeena256 at gmail.com *Mr. Mashoda Lal ???? ????? ???* *Dy. Secretary ?? ????* *Mr. Pratapanand Jha ???? ??????????? ??* * Director * (Cultural Informatics ) ?????? (?????????? ??????????? ?????) pjha at ignca.nic.in *Dr. Ramesh C. Gaur ??. ???? ?????? ???* *Librarian & Head * Kalanidhiand *Head* (Incharge) (Kala Kosa ) ????????????????, ???????????? ??????? ??? (???????) ?????? gaur at ignca.nic.in ramesh_c_gaur at hotmail.com kalanidhi at ignca.nic.in kalakosa at ignca.nic.in *Mr. Basharat Ahmed ???? ????? ????* *Controller (Media Centre) ???????? (????? ??? ?????? ?????) *Film Video Documentation basharatahmeddp at yahoo.co.in *Dr. Molly Kaushal ??. ???? ????* *H.O.D* Janapada Sampada ???????????? ???? ????? mollykaushal at ignca.nic.in mollykaushal at yahoo.com janapadasampada at ignca.nic.in *Dr. Archana Shastri ??. ?????? ????????* * Head of Department * Kala Darsana and Professor (Contemporary Indian Art & Photography). ???????????? ???????? ??? ???????? (??????? ?????? ??? ??? ??????????) kaladarsana at ignca.nic.in *Dr. Anamika Biswas ??. ??????? ???????* * Programme Director * Kala Darsana ????????? ?????? anambis at yahoo.com *Dr. Advaitavadini Kaul ??. ???????????? ???* *Editor* Kala Kosa Publications ??????, ?????? kauladvaita at rediffmail.com kalakosa_ed at yahoo.co.in kalakosa-ed at ignca.nic.in *Dr Mangalam Swaminathan ??????? ????? ??????????* *Assistant Director (I & PR)* Vihangama *: *The IGNCA Newsletter ????? ?????? (????? ??? ????????) vihangama at ignca.nic.in mangalam_s at sify.com *Dr. Radha Banerjee* *???? ?????? * *Sr. Research Officer* Kalakalpa : Bi-annual journal eap_ignca at yahoo.co.nz kalakalpa at ignca.nic.in *Dr. Bachchan Kumar ??. ????? ?????* *Research Officer* South East Asian Studies ??? ???????, ?????? ????? ?????? ?????? bachchankr at ignca.nic.in *Mr. Umesh Batra ???? ???? ?????* *Programmer* (Cultural Informatics ) Website Related Issues ?????????? (?????????? ??????????? ?????) cil at ignca.nic.in *Dr. Sudhir Kumar Lall* *??. ????? ????? ???* *Hindi Officer ?????? ???????* sudhirlall at gmail.com Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts I hope this helps. Greetings, Maitreya B. Larios -- (Maitreya) Borayin Larios J?gerpfad 13 69118 Heidelberg Germany Mobile:(+49)1707366232 http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/mitarbeiter/larios/larios.php http://www.flickr.com/photos/shrimaitreya/ http://www.vidyaksha.webs.com/ From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Jul 23 12:01:05 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 10 14:01:05 +0200 Subject: IGNCA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090014.23782.1739639181414087448.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 610 Lines: 19 Thanks, Maitreya, I found this too. But who's the boss? Perhaps the post of "Director" doesn't exist any more? In the old days, Kapila Vatsyayan was the Member Secretary, and was very definitely the boss. By that token, Jain would be the boss today. But Gharekhan is President of the Trustees and also Chairman of the Executive Committee, so he's obviously at or near the top. Thinking more sociologically, who sits in Kapila's old office today?<1> Dominik <1>Cf. Who Got Einstein's Office . From shrimaitreya at GMAIL.COM Fri Jul 23 12:11:09 2010 From: shrimaitreya at GMAIL.COM ((Maitreya) Borayin Larios) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 10 14:11:09 +0200 Subject: IGNCA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090017.23782.11476949536733415576.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1456 Lines: 46 Dear Dominik, According to IGNCA's organization chart (also found on the website) the board of trustees is at the highest position, followed by the executive commitee and then by the Member Secretary. So I would assume from this structure, that the boss is Gharekhan by being both the president and chairman of the offices above the Member Secretary. I also think, that the new building is now fully operational and therefore the older offices are perhaps no longer in use ;) Greetings, Maitreya On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Thanks, Maitreya, I found this too. > > But who's the boss? Perhaps the post of "Director" doesn't exist any more? > > In the old days, Kapila Vatsyayan was the Member Secretary, and was very > definitely the boss. By that token, Jain would be the boss today. But > Gharekhan is President of the Trustees and also Chairman of the Executive > Committee, so he's obviously at or near the top. > > Thinking more sociologically, who sits in Kapila's old office today?<1> > > Dominik > > <1>Cf. Who Got Einstein's Office > . > -- (Maitreya) Borayin Larios J?gerpfad 13 69118 Heidelberg Germany Mobile:(+49)1707366232 http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/mitarbeiter/larios/larios.php http://www.flickr.com/photos/shrimaitreya/ http://www.vidyaksha.webs.com/ From axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE Fri Jul 23 19:23:08 2010 From: axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE (Axel Michaels) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 10 19:23:08 +0000 Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] IGNCA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090019.23782.16999132708320480275.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1528 Lines: 49 Dear Dominik its Jyotindra Jain Best, Axel ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Axel Michaels Acting Director Excellence Cluster "Asia and Europe in a Global Context", Sprecher des SFB 619 ("Ritualdynamik") Universit?t Heidelberg, S?dasien-Institut, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, D-69120 Heidelberg Tel. +49-6221-548917 / Fax +49-6221-546338 http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/ -- www.ritualdynamik.uni-hd.de -- http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/index.html Emails: sek-michaels at uni-heidelberg.de (SAI office) -- Axel.Michaels at urz.uni-heidelberg.de (official and personal) -- michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de (Cluster mail) P please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. ________________________________ Von: Dominik Wujastyk An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Gesendet: Freitag, den 23. Juli 2010, 14:01:05 Uhr Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] IGNCA Thanks, Maitreya, I found this too. But who's the boss? Perhaps the post of "Director" doesn't exist any more? In the old days, Kapila Vatsyayan was the Member Secretary, and was very definitely the boss. By that token, Jain would be the boss today. But Gharekhan is President of the Trustees and also Chairman of the Executive Committee, so he's obviously at or near the top. Thinking more sociologically, who sits in Kapila's old office today?<1> Dominik <1>Cf. Who Got Einstein's Office . From harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM Mon Jul 26 10:46:55 2010 From: harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM (Harsha Dehejia) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 10 10:46:55 +0000 Subject: Dallapiccola Message-ID: <161227090022.23782.2740788625498588639.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 129 Lines: 19 Friends~ Does anyone have the email address of A.L. Dallapiccola? Regards. Harsha Harsha V. Dehejia From joseph.walser at TUFTS.EDU Mon Jul 26 16:11:49 2010 From: joseph.walser at TUFTS.EDU (Joseph Walser) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 10 12:11:49 -0400 Subject: Text as Saraswati Message-ID: <161227090027.23782.155195828057534036.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 541 Lines: 22 I have noticed that at least among Tamil Brahmins, if someone touches a book with his or her feet, she quickly touches the book and touches her eyes. The explanation I have heard is that this is to apologize to Saraswati who resides in the print. Can anyone tell me how widespread this practice is? Does anyone know of any early references to or scholarly discussion of this practice? Best, Joseph -- Joseph Walser Associate Professor Department of Religion Tufts University 314 Eaton Hall Medford, MA 02155 Office: 617 627-2322 From e.ciurtin at GMAIL.COM Mon Jul 26 12:48:35 2010 From: e.ciurtin at GMAIL.COM (Eugen Ciurtin) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 10 15:48:35 +0300 Subject: CfA New Europe College International Fellowships Message-ID: <161227090024.23782.4245663699590264350.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2857 Lines: 67 ** *New Europe College ? Institute for Advanced Study* in Bucharest, Romania ? announces the competition for Fellowships for the academic year 2011-12. The program targets young international researchers/academics working in the fields of humanities, social studies, and economics. *Eligibility: *Applicants must be doctoral students in an advanced stage of their research, or hold a Ph.D. title. Preference is given to candidates under the age of 40, and to those who have not yet benefited from a NEC Fellowship. Working languages: English, French, and German. A good command of English is desirable. *Duration of the Fellowship*: a) a full academic year (10 months, October through July) or b) a one-term fellowship (October through February, or March through July). This second possibility is open only to international fellows. *Location:* New Europe College ? Institute for Advanced Study, Bucharest, Romania. *The Fellowship consists of*: a monthly stipend of 600 Euro (tax free), accommodation, international transportation to and from the home country of the Fellows at the beginning and the end of the Fellowship, as well as for season holidays. The Fellows who stay for the whole academic year are offered a one-month research trip abroad to an institution of their choice (2,600 Euro for transportation, accommodation, and *per diem*). As an alternative, they can opt for a field research, in Romania or outside it. The Fellows are expected to work on their own projects, and take part in the scientific events organized by the New Europe College. At the end of their Fellowship, each Fellow is expected to hand in a research paper, reflecting the results of his/her work over the duration of the Fellowship. The papers will be included in a NEC publication. ** Applications will be submitted in electronic format only, to the address: applications at nec.ro Candidates are asked to enter in the *Subject *field of their e-mail message ?NEC International Fellowship?. The deadline for the submission of applications is November 15, 2010. The applicants will be notified on the results of the pre-selection at the beginning of the month of March, by e-mail. The shortlisted candidates will be invited to an interview, organized at the NEC in Bucharest, on April 8-10, 2011. The application form, the application guidelines and additional information on New Europe College can be downloaded from www.nec.ro, or requested by e-mail, at applications at nec.ro. -- Dr E. Ciurtin Secretary of the Romanian Association for the History of Religions Publications Officer of the European Association for the Study of Religions www.easr.eu Lecturer & Secretary of the Scientific Council Institute for the History of Religions, Romanian Academy Calea 13 Septembrie no. 13 sect. 5, Bucharest 050711 Phone: 00 40 733 951 953 www.ihr-acad.ro From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Tue Jul 27 01:38:39 2010 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 10 18:38:39 -0700 Subject: Text as Saraswati In-Reply-To: <4C4DB3C5.9000303@tufts.edu> Message-ID: <161227090032.23782.13454453985997789435.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1381 Lines: 40 yes, this is a gesture to offer some kind of a "symbolic apology." I don't know when this practice started or about any scholarly discussion on this subject, but I know that such practice is widespread in many families that I know of in South India, sometimes to the extreme. I do it even now in a different country! It's somewhat a reflex action. When growing up, a cousin of mine (must be 70+ now; so gentle-kind-hearted from childhood) used to "symbolically" apologize even to objects that were not books if he unintentionally came into contact with them by foot. Come to think of it, perhaps this is why in South India the day of "aayuta pooja" is observed -- in order to celebrate the "tools of trade." Regards, V.S. Rajam On Jul 26, 2010, at 9:11 AM, Joseph Walser wrote: > I have noticed that at least among Tamil Brahmins, if someone > touches a book with his or her feet, she quickly touches the book > and touches her eyes. The explanation I have heard is that this is > to apologize to Saraswati who resides in the print. Can anyone tell > me how widespread this practice is? Does anyone know of any early > references to or scholarly discussion of this practice? > Best, > > Joseph > > -- > Joseph Walser > Associate Professor > Department of Religion > Tufts University > 314 Eaton Hall > Medford, MA 02155 > > Office: 617 627-2322 From jwn3y at CMS.MAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU Tue Jul 27 00:32:12 2010 From: jwn3y at CMS.MAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU (John William Nemec) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 10 20:32:12 -0400 Subject: The Perfume Vendor in BhartRhari's VAkyapadIya In-Reply-To: <20100727003105.55F531F514F@fork10.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <161227090029.23782.18165307424427868419.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 737 Lines: 24 Dear Indology List Members, I seem to remember BhartRhari referring by way of analogy to a perfume vendor in the VAkyapadIya, one with a keen sense of smell that could distinguish individual scents from amongst many of them in the shop. I cannot now find the reference, however. Does anyone know the source of this passage, or have I just dreamed this up? Any help offered on- or off-list would be most appreciated. Thank you. Sincerely, John Nemec __________________________________ John Nemec, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Indian Religions and South Asian Studies Dept. of Religious Studies University of Virginia 323 Gibson Hall / 1540 Jefferson Park Avenue Charlottesville, VA 22903 (USA) nemec at virginia.edu +1-434-924-6716 From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Tue Jul 27 08:08:46 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 10 03:08:46 -0500 Subject: Text as Saraswati In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090040.23782.11106694898374031900.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1146 Lines: 29 A similar practice exists in Tibet -- if one inadvertently mishandles a text, touches it with the foot or something unclean, etc., one then touches it with one's forehead as a gesture of respect and may recite as well a brief formula of contrition. All of this of course raises interesting questions in connection with the emergence of the "cult of the book" in India and Indianized milieux. I recall that somewhere among Marc Aurel Stein's reports on his excavations in Central Asia, he came across Buddhist suutras (dating to the early first millennium CE) disposed of in a latrine, and to all evidence this was not the work of vandals, but the original manner of treating texts that were no longer used. If his findings are dependable, given this and G. Schopen's famous "Cult of the Book" article, we might imagine that there was a fairly rapid transformation in the manner in which physical books came to be perceived, at some point during the first centuries CE. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Tue Jul 27 16:39:29 2010 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 10 09:39:29 -0700 Subject: Text as Saraswati In-Reply-To: <4C4DB3C5.9000303@tufts.edu> Message-ID: <161227090050.23782.13059527830364072080.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1021 Lines: 38 The pot is a god. The winnowing fan is a god. The stone in the street is a god. The comb is a god. The bowstring is also a god. The bushel is a god and the spouted cup is a god. Gods, gods, there are so many there's no place left for a foot. There is only one god. He is our Lord of the Meeting Rivers. >From AKR Speaking of Siva, page 84. Poem by Basavanna 1106-1168 CE. George Hart On Jul 26, 2010, at 9:11 AM, Joseph Walser wrote: > I have noticed that at least among Tamil Brahmins, if someone touches a book with his or her feet, she quickly touches the book and touches her eyes. The explanation I have heard is that this is to apologize to Saraswati who resides in the print. Can anyone tell me how widespread this practice is? Does anyone know of any early references to or scholarly discussion of this practice? > Best, > > Joseph > > -- > Joseph Walser > Associate Professor > Department of Religion > Tufts University > 314 Eaton Hall > Medford, MA 02155 > > Office: 617 627-2322 From shrimaitreya at GMAIL.COM Tue Jul 27 08:05:32 2010 From: shrimaitreya at GMAIL.COM ((Maitreya) Borayin Larios) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 10 10:05:32 +0200 Subject: Text as Saraswati In-Reply-To: <582627.95489.qm@web94806.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227090037.23782.15932480809940206949.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3470 Lines: 92 Dear Colleagues, This attitude of having respect for book is quite wide-spread in India and can be found in several examples, even in bollywood films such as "Swades" with Shahrukh Khan. The respect and even veneration of scriptures and books is of course more intense if they are "holy" (manuscripts of the Vedas or the Bhagavadg?t? for example). In most of the Vedic schools I visited for my fieldwork the books or manuscripts were wrapped in silk and handled with great care. If touched with the feet by mistake they would also touch the book with their hands and then either their chest or their head in sign of respect. They also do this when they accidentally touch a person by mistake with their feet. The explanation I received is also that the goddess Sarasvat? abides in the books in the form of knowledge and therefore should be treated like the goddess herself. The annual Sarasvat? P?ja in Vasant Pa?cami in which scriptures and books are worshiped along with the goddess also attest of this bibliolatry. The feet being one of the most impure parts of the body should never touch sacred items. Some people (particularly Brahmins) even recite a ?loka every morning asking for forgiveness to "mother earth" for stepping on her. There may be more scholarly work written specifically on this subject, but I can recommend two articles. The first one addressing Speech as Sarasvat? called "V?g vai Sarasvat?" by Usha Choudhuri found in the book "Veda as Word" edited by Shashiprabha Kumar; the second one is "Pur??a as Scripture: >?From Sound to Image of the Holy Word in the Hindu Tradition" by M. Brown which deals with the veneration of scripture. This is the link to the article: http://www.jstor.org/stable/1062388 Best regards, Maitreya On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 8:43 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya < dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com> wrote: > Dear Coleagues, > The practice existed in Bengal too. One may also see S.K.Chatterji's > account during his travel in Indonesia (I do not remember the page number) > in company with Tagore and a few Europeans too. Chatterji tenderly caressed > a book when it fell from a table. The care shown surprised the European. > Chatterji spoke to him of the general Indian attitude to small vulnerable > things. I remember having related this episode to some member of this forum > long time ago. The attitude will not be found to be universal in India. > Best > DB > > --- On Mon, 26/7/10, Joseph Walser wrote: > > > From: Joseph Walser > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Text as Saraswati > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Monday, 26 July, 2010, 4:11 PM > > > I have noticed that at least among Tamil Brahmins, if someone touches a > book with his or her feet, she quickly touches the book and touches her > eyes. The explanation I have heard is that this is to apologize to Saraswati > who resides in the print. Can anyone tell me how widespread this practice > is? Does anyone know of any early references to or scholarly discussion of > this practice? > Best, > > Joseph > > -- Joseph Walser > Associate Professor > Department of Religion > Tufts University > 314 Eaton Hall > Medford, MA 02155 > > Office: 617 627-2322 > > > > -- (Maitreya) Borayin Larios J?gerpfad 13 69118 Heidelberg Germany Mobile:(+49)1707366232 http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/mitarbeiter/larios/larios.php http://www.flickr.com/photos/shrimaitreya/ http://www.vidyaksha.webs.com/ From joseph.walser at TUFTS.EDU Tue Jul 27 14:55:13 2010 From: joseph.walser at TUFTS.EDU (Joseph Walser) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 10 10:55:13 -0400 Subject: Text as Saraswati Message-ID: <161227090047.23782.2143215635296565957.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 282 Lines: 18 My sincere thanks to everyone who responded publicly and privately to my query. It appears that this practice is pretty widespread. Thanks, -j -- Joseph Walser Associate Professor Department of Religion Tufts University 314 Eaton Hall Medford, MA 02155 Office: 617 627-2322 From franceschini.marco at FASTWEBNET.IT Tue Jul 27 09:15:40 2010 From: franceschini.marco at FASTWEBNET.IT (Marco Franceschini) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 10 11:15:40 +0200 Subject: AttagadhaM padmam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090042.23782.9599993324045895034.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 781 Lines: 29 Dear list members, in the kavya I'm working on (Buddhaghosa's Padyacudamani) there's a reference to the god Brahma taking the fragrance away (and the pride down, with double-entendre) from the lotuses: tadAnanenduM bhuvi niHsapatnaM nirmAtukAmena pitAmahena / akAri padmaM dhruvam Attagandham antaHkalaGkaM ca sudhAMzubimbam // (the stanza describes queen Maya, the mother of Siddhartha) "It was surely out of his wish to make her [the queen's] moon-like face unequalled in the world that Brahma deprived the lotus of its fragrance [and: took its pride down], and marked the moon disk with the spot" I've never heard of Brahma humiliating lotuses: does anyone know what the poet refers to? Thank you in advance for any suggestion. Best regards, Marco Franceschini From franceschini.marco at FASTWEBNET.IT Tue Jul 27 09:59:44 2010 From: franceschini.marco at FASTWEBNET.IT (Marco Franceschini) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 10 11:59:44 +0200 Subject: AttagandhaM padmam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090045.23782.14515895954898768621.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 912 Lines: 34 The subject should read AttagandhaM padmam, not AttagadhaM padmam. Sorry for slip. Marco Franceschini >Dear list members, > >in the kavya I'm working on (Buddhaghosa's Padyacudamani) there's a >reference to the god Brahma taking the fragrance away (and the pride >down, with double-entendre) from the lotuses: > >tadAnanenduM bhuvi niHsapatnaM >nirmAtukAmena pitAmahena / >akAri padmaM dhruvam Attagandham >antaHkalaGkaM ca sudhAMzubimbam // > >(the stanza describes queen Maya, the mother of Siddhartha) > >"It was surely out of his wish to make her [the queen's] moon-like >face unequalled in the world that Brahma deprived the lotus of its >fragrance [and: took its pride down], and marked the moon disk with >the spot" > >I've never heard of Brahma humiliating lotuses: does anyone know >what the poet refers to? > >Thank you in advance for any suggestion. > >Best regards, > >Marco Franceschini From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Tue Jul 27 06:43:33 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 10 12:13:33 +0530 Subject: Text as Saraswati In-Reply-To: <4C4DB3C5.9000303@tufts.edu> Message-ID: <161227090034.23782.5476608472311916273.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1310 Lines: 33 Dear Coleagues, The practice existed in Bengal too. One may also see S.K.Chatterji's account during his travel in Indonesia (I do not remember the page number) in company with Tagore and a few Europeans too. Chatterji tenderly caressed a book when it?fell from a table. The care shown surprised the European. Chatterji spoke to him of the general Indian attitude?to small vulnerable things. I remember having related this episode to some member of this forum long time ago. The attitude will not be found to be universal in India.? Best DB --- On Mon, 26/7/10, Joseph Walser wrote: From: Joseph Walser Subject: [INDOLOGY] Text as Saraswati To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 26 July, 2010, 4:11 PM I have noticed that at least among Tamil Brahmins, if someone touches a book with his or her feet, she quickly touches the book and touches her eyes. The explanation I have heard is that this is to apologize to Saraswati who resides in the print. Can anyone tell me how widespread this practice is? Does anyone know of any early references to or scholarly discussion of this practice? Best, Joseph -- Joseph Walser Associate Professor Department of Religion Tufts University 314 Eaton Hall Medford, MA 02155 Office: 617 627-2322 From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Wed Jul 28 03:46:51 2010 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 10 20:46:51 -0700 Subject: Text as Saraswati In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090055.23782.4687885136706739598.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4285 Lines: 140 About "The feet being one of the most impure parts of the body should never touch > sacred items." In this context, it would be interesting also to learn why gold was never worn below waist, at least in some traditional S. Indian environments that I'm familiar with. In my generation, some traditional ornaments such as toe rings or anklets were never made in gold. The only big pomp that would adorn the waist was the "waist-belt" in gold with numerous gems embedded. Regards, Rajam On Jul 27, 2010, at 1:05 AM, (Maitreya) Borayin Larios wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > This attitude of having respect for book is quite wide-spread in > India and > can be found in several examples, even in bollywood films such as > "Swades" > with Shahrukh Khan. > The respect and even veneration of scriptures and books is of > course more > intense if they are "holy" (manuscripts of the Vedas or the > Bhagavadg?t? for > example). > In most of the Vedic schools I visited for my fieldwork the books or > manuscripts were wrapped in silk and handled with great care. If > touched > with the feet by mistake they would also touch the book with their > hands and > then either their chest or their head in sign of respect. They also > do this > when they accidentally touch a person by mistake with their feet. > The explanation I received is also that the goddess Sarasvat? > abides in the > books in the form of knowledge and therefore should be treated like > the > goddess herself. The annual Sarasvat? P?ja in Vasant Pa?cami in > which > scriptures and books are worshiped along with the goddess also > attest of > this bibliolatry. > The feet being one of the most impure parts of the body should > never touch > sacred items. Some people (particularly Brahmins) even recite a > ?loka every > morning asking for forgiveness to "mother earth" for stepping on her. > There may be more scholarly work written specifically on this > subject, but I > can recommend two articles. The first one addressing Speech as > Sarasvat? > called "V?g vai Sarasvat?" by Usha Choudhuri found in the book > "Veda as > Word" edited by Shashiprabha Kumar; the second one is "Pur??a as > Scripture: > From Sound to Image of the Holy Word in the Hindu Tradition" by M. > Brown > which deals with the veneration of scripture. This is the link to the > article: http://www.jstor.org/stable/1062388 > > Best regards, > Maitreya > > > On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 8:43 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya < > dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Dear Coleagues, >> The practice existed in Bengal too. One may also see S.K.Chatterji's >> account during his travel in Indonesia (I do not remember the page >> number) >> in company with Tagore and a few Europeans too. Chatterji tenderly >> caressed >> a book when it fell from a table. The care shown surprised the >> European. >> Chatterji spoke to him of the general Indian attitude to small >> vulnerable >> things. I remember having related this episode to some member of >> this forum >> long time ago. The attitude will not be found to be universal in >> India. >> Best >> DB >> >> --- On Mon, 26/7/10, Joseph Walser wrote: >> >> >> From: Joseph Walser >> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Text as Saraswati >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Date: Monday, 26 July, 2010, 4:11 PM >> >> >> I have noticed that at least among Tamil Brahmins, if someone >> touches a >> book with his or her feet, she quickly touches the book and >> touches her >> eyes. The explanation I have heard is that this is to apologize to >> Saraswati >> who resides in the print. Can anyone tell me how widespread this >> practice >> is? Does anyone know of any early references to or scholarly >> discussion of >> this practice? >> Best, >> >> Joseph >> >> -- Joseph Walser >> Associate Professor >> Department of Religion >> Tufts University >> 314 Eaton Hall >> Medford, MA 02155 >> >> Office: 617 627-2322 >> >> >> >> > > > -- > (Maitreya) Borayin Larios > J?gerpfad 13 > 69118 Heidelberg > Germany > Mobile:(+49)1707366232 > http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/mitarbeiter/larios/larios.php > http://www.flickr.com/photos/shrimaitreya/ > http://www.vidyaksha.webs.com/ From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Wed Jul 28 04:55:17 2010 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 10 21:55:17 -0700 Subject: Text as Saraswati In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090061.23782.4693480472701284663.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5314 Lines: 175 Dear Stella, This is news to me! I've never seen a gold toe ring in my old environments! It shows how disparate things can be in India at a given time in similar social ethnic backgrounds! Thanks for the information, and I will check it with my living "antique" family members! :) Regards, Rajam On Jul 27, 2010, at 9:40 PM, Stella Sandahl wrote: > Dear Rajam, > I have a slight recollection that Raja Rao in The serpent and the > Rope talks with great pride about the gold toe rings of his South > Indian Brahmin > character(s). But Raja Rao was of course an older generation. > Stella Sandahl > -- > Stella Sandahl > ssandahl at sympatico.ca > > > > On 27-Jul-10, at 11:46 PM, rajam wrote: > >> About "The feet being one of the most impure parts of the body >> should never touch >>> sacred items." >> >> In this context, it would be interesting also to learn why gold >> was never worn below waist, >> at least in some traditional S. Indian environments that I'm >> familiar with. >> In my generation, some traditional ornaments such as toe rings or >> anklets were never made in gold. >> The only big pomp that would adorn the waist was the "waist-belt" >> in gold with numerous gems embedded. >> >> Regards, >> Rajam >> >> >> On Jul 27, 2010, at 1:05 AM, (Maitreya) Borayin Larios wrote: >> >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> This attitude of having respect for book is quite wide-spread in >>> India and >>> can be found in several examples, even in bollywood films such as >>> "Swades" >>> with Shahrukh Khan. >>> The respect and even veneration of scriptures and books is of >>> course more >>> intense if they are "holy" (manuscripts of the Vedas or the >>> Bhagavadg?t? for >>> example). >>> In most of the Vedic schools I visited for my fieldwork the books or >>> manuscripts were wrapped in silk and handled with great care. If >>> touched >>> with the feet by mistake they would also touch the book with >>> their hands and >>> then either their chest or their head in sign of respect. They >>> also do this >>> when they accidentally touch a person by mistake with their feet. >>> The explanation I received is also that the goddess Sarasvat? >>> abides in the >>> books in the form of knowledge and therefore should be treated >>> like the >>> goddess herself. The annual Sarasvat? P?ja in Vasant Pa?cami in >>> which >>> scriptures and books are worshiped along with the goddess also >>> attest of >>> this bibliolatry. >>> The feet being one of the most impure parts of the body should >>> never touch >>> sacred items. Some people (particularly Brahmins) even recite a >>> ?loka every >>> morning asking for forgiveness to "mother earth" for stepping on >>> her. >>> There may be more scholarly work written specifically on this >>> subject, but I >>> can recommend two articles. The first one addressing Speech as >>> Sarasvat? >>> called "V?g vai Sarasvat?" by Usha Choudhuri found in the book >>> "Veda as >>> Word" edited by Shashiprabha Kumar; the second one is "Pur??a >>> as Scripture: >>> From Sound to Image of the Holy Word in the Hindu Tradition" by >>> M. Brown >>> which deals with the veneration of scripture. This is the link to >>> the >>> article: http://www.jstor.org/stable/1062388 >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Maitreya >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 8:43 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya < >>> dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Coleagues, >>>> The practice existed in Bengal too. One may also see >>>> S.K.Chatterji's >>>> account during his travel in Indonesia (I do not remember the >>>> page number) >>>> in company with Tagore and a few Europeans too. Chatterji >>>> tenderly caressed >>>> a book when it fell from a table. The care shown surprised the >>>> European. >>>> Chatterji spoke to him of the general Indian attitude to small >>>> vulnerable >>>> things. I remember having related this episode to some member of >>>> this forum >>>> long time ago. The attitude will not be found to be universal in >>>> India. >>>> Best >>>> DB >>>> >>>> --- On Mon, 26/7/10, Joseph Walser wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Joseph Walser >>>> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Text as Saraswati >>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>>> Date: Monday, 26 July, 2010, 4:11 PM >>>> >>>> >>>> I have noticed that at least among Tamil Brahmins, if someone >>>> touches a >>>> book with his or her feet, she quickly touches the book and >>>> touches her >>>> eyes. The explanation I have heard is that this is to apologize >>>> to Saraswati >>>> who resides in the print. Can anyone tell me how widespread this >>>> practice >>>> is? Does anyone know of any early references to or scholarly >>>> discussion of >>>> this practice? >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Joseph >>>> >>>> -- Joseph Walser >>>> Associate Professor >>>> Department of Religion >>>> Tufts University >>>> 314 Eaton Hall >>>> Medford, MA 02155 >>>> >>>> Office: 617 627-2322 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> (Maitreya) Borayin Larios >>> J?gerpfad 13 >>> 69118 Heidelberg >>> Germany >>> Mobile:(+49)1707366232 >>> http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/mitarbeiter/larios/ >>> larios.php >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/shrimaitreya/ >>> http://www.vidyaksha.webs.com/ >> > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Jul 27 20:09:55 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 10 22:09:55 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Training programme covering all aspects of medical manuscripts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090052.23782.3110138318181612544.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 950 Lines: 37 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: MA Alwar Date: 25 July 2010 17:40 Subject: Training programme covering all aspects of medical manuscripts From: Dr. M.A.Alwar Project Director, FRLHT, Bangalore [...] Now, IAIM, FRLHT is embarking on a unique and pioneering training programme covering all aspects of medical manuscripts like identification, cataloguing, deciphering, preparing critical editions et al. The details of the programme are available on our website www.frlht.org. I request you to kindly let any persons who are interested in attending the programme (from outside India), to know about this programme. We will take care of thier boarding and lodging for the entire duration of the course in the FRLHT campus, free of cost. In case you require any further information in this regard, pl let me know and I will be very glad to be any assistance. [...] With profund regards, Dr M.A.Alwar From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA Wed Jul 28 04:40:57 2010 From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 10 00:40:57 -0400 Subject: Text as Saraswati In-Reply-To: <63AC67C2-2AE8-4F62-9D78-5C1ED0FCAB98@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <161227090058.23782.12323790593002827486.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4771 Lines: 156 Dear Rajam, I have a slight recollection that Raja Rao in The serpent and the Rope talks with great pride about the gold toe rings of his South Indian Brahmin character(s). But Raja Rao was of course an older generation. Stella Sandahl -- Stella Sandahl ssandahl at sympatico.ca On 27-Jul-10, at 11:46 PM, rajam wrote: > About "The feet being one of the most impure parts of the body > should never touch >> sacred items." > > In this context, it would be interesting also to learn why gold was > never worn below waist, > at least in some traditional S. Indian environments that I'm > familiar with. > In my generation, some traditional ornaments such as toe rings or > anklets were never made in gold. > The only big pomp that would adorn the waist was the "waist-belt" > in gold with numerous gems embedded. > > Regards, > Rajam > > > On Jul 27, 2010, at 1:05 AM, (Maitreya) Borayin Larios wrote: > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> This attitude of having respect for book is quite wide-spread in >> India and >> can be found in several examples, even in bollywood films such as >> "Swades" >> with Shahrukh Khan. >> The respect and even veneration of scriptures and books is of >> course more >> intense if they are "holy" (manuscripts of the Vedas or the >> Bhagavadg?t? for >> example). >> In most of the Vedic schools I visited for my fieldwork the books or >> manuscripts were wrapped in silk and handled with great care. If >> touched >> with the feet by mistake they would also touch the book with their >> hands and >> then either their chest or their head in sign of respect. They >> also do this >> when they accidentally touch a person by mistake with their feet. >> The explanation I received is also that the goddess Sarasvat? >> abides in the >> books in the form of knowledge and therefore should be treated >> like the >> goddess herself. The annual Sarasvat? P?ja in Vasant Pa?cami in >> which >> scriptures and books are worshiped along with the goddess also >> attest of >> this bibliolatry. >> The feet being one of the most impure parts of the body should >> never touch >> sacred items. Some people (particularly Brahmins) even recite a >> ?loka every >> morning asking for forgiveness to "mother earth" for stepping on her. >> There may be more scholarly work written specifically on this >> subject, but I >> can recommend two articles. The first one addressing Speech as >> Sarasvat? >> called "V?g vai Sarasvat?" by Usha Choudhuri found in the book >> "Veda as >> Word" edited by Shashiprabha Kumar; the second one is "Pur??a as >> Scripture: >> From Sound to Image of the Holy Word in the Hindu Tradition" by M. >> Brown >> which deals with the veneration of scripture. This is the link to the >> article: http://www.jstor.org/stable/1062388 >> >> Best regards, >> Maitreya >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 8:43 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya < >> dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> Dear Coleagues, >>> The practice existed in Bengal too. One may also see S.K.Chatterji's >>> account during his travel in Indonesia (I do not remember the >>> page number) >>> in company with Tagore and a few Europeans too. Chatterji >>> tenderly caressed >>> a book when it fell from a table. The care shown surprised the >>> European. >>> Chatterji spoke to him of the general Indian attitude to small >>> vulnerable >>> things. I remember having related this episode to some member of >>> this forum >>> long time ago. The attitude will not be found to be universal in >>> India. >>> Best >>> DB >>> >>> --- On Mon, 26/7/10, Joseph Walser wrote: >>> >>> >>> From: Joseph Walser >>> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Text as Saraswati >>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>> Date: Monday, 26 July, 2010, 4:11 PM >>> >>> >>> I have noticed that at least among Tamil Brahmins, if someone >>> touches a >>> book with his or her feet, she quickly touches the book and >>> touches her >>> eyes. The explanation I have heard is that this is to apologize >>> to Saraswati >>> who resides in the print. Can anyone tell me how widespread this >>> practice >>> is? Does anyone know of any early references to or scholarly >>> discussion of >>> this practice? >>> Best, >>> >>> Joseph >>> >>> -- Joseph Walser >>> Associate Professor >>> Department of Religion >>> Tufts University >>> 314 Eaton Hall >>> Medford, MA 02155 >>> >>> Office: 617 627-2322 >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> (Maitreya) Borayin Larios >> J?gerpfad 13 >> 69118 Heidelberg >> Germany >> Mobile:(+49)1707366232 >> http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/mitarbeiter/larios/ >> larios.php >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/shrimaitreya/ >> http://www.vidyaksha.webs.com/ > From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Wed Jul 28 09:14:14 2010 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 10 11:14:14 +0200 Subject: Freedom of (scientific) speech In-Reply-To: <63AC67C2-2AE8-4F62-9D78-5C1ED0FCAB98@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <161227090065.23782.7618596277377579111.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 305 Lines: 14 see Frontline online: The Supreme Court lifts the Maharashtra government's ban on James Laine's book on Shivaji http://www.flonnet.com/stories/20100813271604100.htm (with picture of the devastated BORI in 2004) -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ From zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE Sat Jul 31 21:41:01 2010 From: zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE (Robert Zydenbos) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 10 23:41:01 +0200 Subject: Text as Saraswati In-Reply-To: <4C4DB3C5.9000303@tufts.edu> Message-ID: <161227090068.23782.13315245952561076342.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2076 Lines: 52 This is actually a multi-layered question. (1) As other list members have already pointed out, this concerns not only Tamilians, nor only brahmins. (2) The foot is one of the less 'pure' (for want of a better word in English) parts of the body, and touching anything or anyone with one's feet is considered a sign of disrespect, if not a deliberate insult. This goes for books as well as anything else. In Karnataka (and certainly elsewhere too), if one person touches another with his / her foot, s/he is expected to request forgiveness at once, and this is done conventionally by touching that other person somewhere (usually on the arm or shoulder) with the right hand and then quickly touching one's own eyelids with the fingertips of that hand (signifying "I hereby remove the blemish which I have given you and take it upon myself"). (3) Any kind of printed material can be thought of as Sarasvat?. I knew a lady professor of sociology from UP who was short of stature, and when once a few telephone directories were piled up so that she could stand on them and reach a microphone, she refused to do so. (4) An American friend of mine once shocked his Bangalore-born wife by putting his foot on a one-dollar banknote to prevent it from being blown away by the wind: she felt this was an insult to Lak?m?. RZ Op 26.07.2010, om 18:11 heeft Joseph Walser het volgende geschreven: > I have noticed that at least among Tamil Brahmins, if someone > touches a book with his or her feet, she quickly touches the book > and touches her eyes. The explanation I have heard is that this is > to apologize to Saraswati who resides in the print. Can anyone tell > me how widespread this practice is? Does anyone know of any early > references to or scholarly discussion of this practice? > Best, > > Joseph Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Department f?r Asienstudien - Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie Universit?t M?nchen Deutschland Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827 Web http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~zydenbos From clarsha at MCMASTER.CA Wed Jun 2 20:08:50 2010 From: clarsha at MCMASTER.CA (Shayne Clarke) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 10 16:08:50 -0400 Subject: BDK Canada Graduate Scholarship for Buddhist Studies at a Japanese University Message-ID: <161227089706.23782.9495781517052794056.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3387 Lines: 91 Dear Colleagues, Please help us to publicise this year's BDK Canada Graduate Scholarship competition. Please distribute this information widely. Note in particular the eligibility: Canadian citizens *studying anywhere* are eligible; students of *any nationality* studying at a Canadian university are eligible. Sincerely, Shayne Clarke ------------------- Shayne Clarke Department of Religious Studies McMaster University University Hall, Room 104 1280 Main Street West Hamilton, Ontario L8S 4K1 CANADA Phone: 905 525 9140, ext. 23389 Fax: 905 525 8161 clarsha[at]mcmaster.ca http://socserv.mcmaster.ca/clarsha/ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ BDK Canada Graduate Scholarship for a year of Buddhist Studies at a Japanese University This scholarship will enable advanced graduate students in Buddhist Studies who are Canadian Citizens or studying in a Canadian University to spend one year in a Japanese University, studying and/or carrying out doctoral research. Value: $40,000 (Canadian) Eligibility and Terms The applicant must be a registered full-time graduate student in a Canadian university or a Canadian citizen studying as a full-time graduate student in a university outside of Canada. Visa students in degree programmes in Canadian universities may apply. Preference will be given to advanced graduate students preparing to carry out doctoral dissertation research, but others at an early stage in their study will also be considered. Some familiarity with Japanese language is expected but fluency is not required. The results of the award will be announced by January 15, 2011. The term of the successful candidate's stay in Japan will be one year, which may begin at any time between April 1, 2011 and March 2012. The award will be paid in two instalments. This amount should cover one round trip ticket to Japan and a large part of the expenses directly related to study in Japan. 1. A completed application form and three letters of reference are to be submitted to Dean of Graduate Studies School of Graduate Studies McMaster University Hamilton, Ontario L8S 4K1 2. Transcripts from all university level courses are to be sent directly to the School of Graduate Studies, McMaster University 3. Three letters of reference. These confidential letters must accompany the application in separate sealed signed envelopes. i) One letter must be from the applicant's supervisor. ii) Another letter must be from a Japanese scholar based at the Japanese institution where the applicant proposes to study. iii) Applicants from the University of British Columbia, University of Calgary, McMaster University, University of Toronto and McGill University must have a letter from the member of the Selection Committee representing his or her institution.** Applications may be obtained from The Department of Religious Studies McMaster University Hamilton, Ontario, Canada L8S 4K1 or from the website http://www.religiousstudies.mcmaster.ca/ **Names of the members of the current Selection Committee may be obtained from the Department of Religious Studies, McMaster University. Applicants requiring assistance in contacting scholars at Japanese institutions may write to a member of the Selection Committee for advice. Application Deadline November 1, 2010 From westerhoff at CANTAB.NET Thu Jun 3 07:28:35 2010 From: westerhoff at CANTAB.NET (Jan Westerhoff) Date: Thu, 03 Jun 10 08:28:35 +0100 Subject: Email of Ole Holten Pind? Message-ID: <161227089708.23782.4079460727663184954.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 366 Lines: 22 Dear Colleagues, if one of you happens to have the email address of Ole Holten Pind I would be most grateful if you could send it to me off-list. Many thanks, Jan Westerhoff *************************** Dr Dr JC Westerhoff Department of Philosophy University of Durham 50 Old Elvet Durham DH1 3HN United Kingdom www.janwesterhoff.net westerhoff at cantab.net From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Sat Jun 5 14:51:57 2010 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel) Date: Sat, 05 Jun 10 10:51:57 -0400 Subject: F. Staal review by Renou? In-Reply-To: <516449.47716.qm@web27303.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227089713.23782.10918929074600856146.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 722 Lines: 34 Dear Colleagues, Frits Staal asks help to find a small (about one page) review of his book NAMBUDIRI VEDA RECITATION of 1961. It was published by Louis Renou in the JOURNAL ASIATIQUE but is not on line because there are several gaps. The review must have been published around 1962 and his name will be listed as ?J.F. Staal?. If you have easy access to it, please send it to fritsstaal at berkeley.edu. Many thanks ! Michael > ============ Michael Witzel witzel at fas.harvard.edu Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University 1 Bow Street, Cambridge MA 02138, USA phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; my direct line: 617- 496 2990 From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Sat Jun 5 12:42:12 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sat, 05 Jun 10 18:12:12 +0530 Subject: Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Help with keyboard Message-ID: <161227089710.23782.13232819865368432313.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4572 Lines: 97 Dear Friends, In continuation of the?previous mail cited below?I must state with apology that my assessment of Windows 7 was not fully correct. One can install old programmes like Turbo C, QBasic and iLEAP and work as with XP. The only difference is that the installation process is not automatic. It was done after some efforts. However, I am not yet successful with 'chkdsk/f' and a few other facilities. Hope it will be possible to?install those too Best DB? --- On Tue, 18/5/10, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Help with keyboard To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 18 May, 2010, 1:26 PM Dear Colleagues, Baraha worked with my Windows 7. iLEAP did not work. But it accepted a new non-unicode inscript processor similar to iLEAP. But otherwise my experience with Windows 7 has not been happy. It does not accept the old DOS based conventional programming languages. I do not know if I have read it correctly but It seems that Windows aims at keeping its users? more and more dependent on it by withdrawing the opportunities of independent programming. My vendor advised me to instal the new?Windows based?Visual Basic Studio (Visual Studio 2008)to do programming as one formerly did with TC or QB. The Acrobat writer began to function only after that. It has some user friendly packages. That may be useful for commercial users. And, apparently, things are better.?But, perhaps, freedom is curtailed.? For me it?may take time to get used to the new set up.?To make things as good as with the previous version, it seems advisable to keep a Windows?XP ready.? However since I am no expert more knowledgeable colleagues may kindly comment. Best for all DB? --- On Mon, 17/5/10, Herman Tull wrote: From: Herman Tull Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Help with keyboard To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 17 May, 2010, 9:46 PM I am a big fan of Baraha.? When I first made the shift to Windows 7, Baraha produced the infamous boxes, etc.? However, I think I caused the problem by changing the settings in the "Region and Language" area of the control panel (something that I think was required in XP, but apparently not in Windows 7).? I set everything back to default, and Baraha started to work. Incidentally, I use Baraha Direct, and type directly into Word 2007. I realize Windows and Word are for those of us trapped in this world of nescience, but they do have great utility, and I find that with them (and Baraha) I am able to easily produce serviceable devanagari. Herman Tull Princeton, NJ -------------------------------------------------- From: "J?rgen Neuss" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 4:54 PM To: Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Help with keyboard > dear kenneth and others, > > i recently tried to install anything i know regarding diacritics, from > gandhari-unicode to baraha, on the windows 7 computer of one of my > students. I learned, to my surprise, that nothing worked at all with w7, > even though different programs use different approaches to override the > standard windows keyboard layout. i could neither find a solution nor the > reason for this, nor any kind of workaround. i simply failed. i decided to > avoid w7 for myaself, [as long as possible] and told my student to do the > same. she now uses xp again - and no problem at all with either of the > approaches tried in vain on w7. > so i can only recommend to downgrade to xp, as long as one cannot use > another os with suitable software available. > if anyone has a solution for the w7 problem, i also would be grateful for > detailed information. > > sorry, if some of you find this response lengthy and useless, what it in > fact is. > > cheers > > juergen > > > > Am Mon, 17 May 2010 20:56:07 +0200 hat Kenneth Zysk > geschrieben: > >> I just acquired a new computer with Windows 7. I downloaded Gandhari Unicode fonts and tried, but failed, to download the Keyman keyboard layout. Can someone kindly tell me how to acquire the necessary keyboard accessory for the Gandhari Unicode fonts with Windows 7. >> Many thanks in advance. >> Best, >> Ken >> Kenneth Zysk >> Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies >> University of Copenhagen >> Artillerivej 86 >> DK-2300 Copenhagen S? ? Denmark >>? Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk >> > > > -- __________ > J?rgen Neu? > > http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~jneuss/ > From conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Mon Jun 7 19:20:39 2010 From: conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Frank Conlon) Date: Mon, 07 Jun 10 12:20:39 -0700 Subject: Professor Norman Gerald Barrier (fwd) Message-ID: <161227089716.23782.1567455728056530926.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 10764 Lines: 234 I share this sad news with you all--as just reported to H-ASIA. Frank Conlon H-ASIA June 7, 2010 Professor Norman Gerald Barrier *********************************************************************** From: Frank F. Conlon It is with a very sad heart that I report the death of Professor Norman Gerald Barrier on June 6, 2010 in Columbia, Missouri, after an eight- month battle with brain cancer. I just received this news from Jerry's collegue Paul Wallace. Paul is travelling at the moment, and it may be some days before we can post a formal obituary. In the interim, I would like to share just a few thoughts on the loss of this good and great friend, who has contributed so much to our field. Jerry Barrier was a giant in the field of South Asian studies, especially in history and especially the history of the Sikhs and the Punjab. His many publications helped to define that field, and his command of its bibliography led to broadening our awareness of its many issues. Jerry further advanced South Asian studies in North America through his active promotion of books and bibliography when he launched South Asia Books-- the premier specialist source of books from the subcontinent for many years. Jerry's presence at academic conference book exhibits was a source of stimulating information--he loved books, he knew books, and his goal was to place the right books in the hands of those who would use them. Jerry was born into a deeply religious family and was, at one time, considered to be on the path to a ministry. In time he decided that he did not wish to follow that road and turned instead to the study of history. At Duke he worked under that pioneer of four programs (Michigan, Chicago, Duke, Syracuse) in Indian history, the late Robert Crane. Crane suggested students look at the legislative councils of varous Indian provinces constituted in 1892. In point of fact, most of the students moved out, as Crane probably anticipated, from the ground of provincial politics into a far wider range of interests. Jerry moved through provincial politics and land control legislation in the Punjab into a much broader interest in the Sikh community, its politics, culture and traditions. His PhD dissertation (1966) was "Punjab politics and the disturbances of 1907". Barrier was first appointed to the history faculty of Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, but then joined the faculty of the University of Missouri at Columbia, where he remained until his retirement. He was known as an enthusiastic, sometimes unconventional, teacher at both undergraduate and graduate levels. Along his scholarly path he developed a commanding knowledge of specialized bibliography and archival resources. With all the enthusiasm that had informed his more youthful engagement with religious ministry, he threw his efforts into scholarship and bibliography. The rest, as they say, is history. And what a history, I am not sure how many books Jerry wrote or edited, nor how many articles and essays he published. A later formal obituary may address that quantitative question. However, from the qualitative viewpoint, Jerry Barrier's imagination and energies were unparalleled. That he could pursue his own research trajectory while also founding and building South Asia Books, provides a hint of his capacity for activity. Here, in point of fact, I can share that Jerry had an unusually high metabolism. I recall once when he visited me in Minneapolis in the winter of 1968. He was to sleep on a couch in my apartment where, since it was -20 degrees farenheit outside, it was about 52 degrees inside, he declined the two blankets and quilt I had borrowed for his use, and slept peacefully under a single sheet. In short, he was in his very being, a sort of human dynamo, able to strive toward complete perfection in all that he attempted. The entry of N. Gerald Barrier in most catalogues of major libraries will bring forth come evidence of Jerry's prolific career. His chosen pattern of publication largely focussed upon essays and articles along with ground-breaking foundational publications on bibliography. He also did yeoman service as an active editor of collections of essays from a wide variety of conferences, seminars and panels on many aspects of South Asian history, and most especially on Sikh Studies. I have assembled a brief list of books Jerry wrote and/or edited at the end of this post, but I do not warrent it to be complete, and I do not yet have access to a complete list of his innumerable essays and articles. Jerry also plowed new furrows by exploring previously much ignored sources such as the various tracts collections in the India Office Library and he identified and brought to light the various publications in British India which had been banned by the colonial authorities. The significant aspect of his work was that while he developed his own research agenda, virtually every thing he did, he could--and did--share with others. Jerry was recognized by the University of Missouri for his outstanding contributions as Middlebush Chair in the Social Sciences; he was awarded numerous grants and fellowships and was recipient of an Indian award for his promotion of the Indian book trade and knowledge of Indian culture. In December 2008, Jerry was invited to give the keynote address to a conference "Sikhism in a Global Context" at Riverside, CA, where he was presented with a 'Lifetime Achievement Award' in commemoration and appreciation of his significant scholarly contributions in the area of Sikh Studies. On another front, Jerry's work with books was furthered by his activiteis in conjunction with the Association for Asian Studies's Committee on South Asia Libraries and Documentation and his long-term chairmanship of the American Institute of Indian Studies's Publication Committee. He was among the moving forces of the Punjab Studies Committee which generated conferences and publications in North America. It may sound like a cliche, but I doubt that we will soon see another friend and scholar like Jerry Barrier--he was truly one of a kind. Once, during one of our periodic conference meals together, I told him that if it must have been pre-ordained that he would follow his chosen path. I told him that he struck me as holding within himself the stature, energy and honor of the Sikhs he loved and studied, but with certain bania tendencies. Sardar or bania, or both--for me, and many others, Jerry was, ultimately, a very good friend. We have now lost that good friend, and will have only to keep his memory in our hearts. Frank Frank F. Conlon Professor Emeritus of History, South Asian Studies & Comparative Religion University of Washington Seattle, WA 98195-3560 USA Co-editor, H-ASIA Managing Director, Bibliography of Asian Studies Online -------------------------------------------------------------------- A sampling of Barrier bibliography: Aspects of India : essays in honor of Edward Cameron Dimock, Jr. / edited by Margaret Case and N. Gerald Barrier. New Delhi : Manohar Publications for American Institute of Indian Studies, 1986. ISBN: 818505407X British imperial policy in India and Sri Lanka, 1858-1912: a reassessment / editors, Robert I. Crane and N. Gerald Barrier. New Delhi : Heritage Publishers, [1981] The Census in British India : new perspectives / edited with an introduction by N. Gerald Barrier. New Delhi : Manohar, 1981. Punjab past and present : essays in honour of Dr. Ganda Singh edited by Harbans Singh, N. Gerald Barrier. Patiala : Punjabi University, 1976. The Sikh diaspora : migration and the experience beyond Punjab edited by N. Gerald Barrier, Verne A. Dusenbery. Delhi : Chanakya Publications, 1989. ISBN: 8170010470 Sikh identity : continuity and change edited by Pashaura Singh, N. Gerald Barrier. New Delhi : Manohar, 1999. ISBN: 8173042365 Sikh studies : comparative perspectives on a changing tradition : working papers from the Berkeley conference on Sikh studies edited by Mark Juergensmeyer and N. Gerald Barrier. Berkeley : Graduate Theological Union, 1979. ISBN: 0895811006 Sikhism and history [festchrift for Professor W.H. McLeod] edited by Pashaura Singh, N. Gerald Barrier. New Delhi : Oxford University Press, 2004. ISBN: 0195667085 The transmission of Sikh heritage in the diaspora edited by Pashaura Singh, N. Gerald Barrier. New Delhi : Manohar Publishers & Distributors, 1996. ISBN: 8173041555 Banned; controversial literature and political control in British India, 1907-1947 N. Gerald Barrier. Columbia, MO: University of Missouri Press [1974] ISBN: 0826201598 Hindi, Urdu, and Panjabi tracts on nineteenth-century Punjab : an introduction to the pamphlet collections in the British Museum and India Office Library N. Gerald Barrier. c.1968? Typescript (at LOC) also available at Center for Research Libraries India and America : American publishing on India, 1930-1985 N. Gerald Barrier New Delhi : Manohar : American Institute of Indian Studies, 1986. ISBN: 8185054096 The Punjab Alienation of Land Bill of 1900 Norman G.Barrier. Durham : Duke University, Program in Comparative Studies on Southern Asia, c1966. Punjab history in printed British documents; a bibliographic guide to Parliamentary papers and select nonserial publications, 1843-1947 Barrier, N. Gerald (Norman Gerald) Columbia, University of Missouri Press [1969] ISBN: 082620077X The Punjab in nineteenth century tracts : an introduction to the pamphlet collections in the British Museum and India Office N. Gerald Barrier. East Lansing, Mich. : Research Committee on the Punjab, 1969. The Punjab press, 1880-1905 N. Gerald Barrier and Paul Wallace. East Lansing, Mich: Research Committee on the Punjab, 1970. The Sikhs and their literature : a guide to tracts, books, and periodicals, 1849-1919 N. Gerald Barrier ; Delhi : Manohar Book Service ; Columbia, Mo. South Asia Books, 1970. Roots of communal politics / edited, with historical introduction by N. Gerald Barrier. [Indian National Congress. Cawnpore Riots Enquiry Committee., Report] New Delhi : Arnold-Heinemann Publishers (India), 1976. ****************************************************************** To post to H-ASIA simply send your message to: For holidays or short absences send post to: with message: SET H-ASIA NOMAIL Upon return, send post with message SET H-ASIA MAIL H-ASIA WEB HOMEPAGE URL: http://h-net.msu.edu/~asia/ From corinnawessels at YAHOO.DE Tue Jun 8 10:30:07 2010 From: corinnawessels at YAHOO.DE (Corinna Wessels-Mevissen) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 10 10:30:07 +0000 Subject: Workshop "Concepts of Time and Their Visual and Material Aspects - Focus Asia" Message-ID: <161227089718.23782.6809081531992553274.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2832 Lines: 100 Dear Colleagues, The following workshop will be held in Cologne on 25-26 June 2010. Everyone interested is most welcome to join us and participate in our discussions: http://www.ik-morphomata.uni-koeln.de/?q=node/328 With best wishes, Corinna -------------------------- Concepts of Time and Their Visual and Material Aspects - Focus Asia In the framework of Morphomata?s research on ?Morphomes of Time?, this workshop proposes to investigate the visual and material implications of various Asian concepts of time. The time concepts that will be introduced vary in some of their details and in the way time is perceived and experienced. What is of particular interest is their translation and manifestation in the visual media and in material works (of art). The visualization of time may be regarded as a rather vast field. However, it has rarely been intended to portray ?time? itself (examples for this will be discussed). Often, time manifests itself indirectly in artworks ? thus, a specific analytical approach becomes necessary. This workshop seeks to explore the range of visual and material expressions of time. This will help to reveal the impact of time concepts on cultural figurations, which, in turn, may have retroactively affected theoretical concepts and cultural practices. PROGRAMME Friday, 25 June7.30 pm Christoph Emmrich (Toronto): Knochenberg und Weltenbrand. Buddhistische literarische Denkbilder und Zeit Saturday, 26 June 09.15 am Dietrich Boschung: Welcome Address/Begr??ung Corinna Wessels-Mevissen: Introduction 09.45 Karl-Heinz Golzio (Bonn): The Calendar Systems of Ancient India and Their Spread to Southeast Asia 10.30 COFFEE BREAK 11.00 Jean Couteau (Denpasar): Calendar and Myth in Bali 11.45 Robert J. Del Bont? (San Francisco): Time (or Timelessness) in Jaina Iconography 12.30 LUNCH 02.00 pm Ry?suke ?hashi (Tokyo/K?ln): The Concept of Time According to Zen Master D?gen: ?A Pine Tree is also Time, A Bamboo is also Time? 02.45 Joachim K. Bautze (Berlin): Personified Time and Time of the Maharajas as Reflected in Indian Painting 03.30 COFFEE BREAK 04.00 Gerd J. R. Mevissen (Berlin): Figurations of Time and Protection: Planetary and Other Astral Deities in South Asian Art 04.45 Ursula Bickelmann-Aldinger (Heidelberg): Time (and Space) in Modern Indian Art 05.30 Final Discussion Venue: Internationales Kolleg Morphomata, Weyertal 59 (rear building), 50937 K?ln, 3rd floor ----------- Dr. Corinna Wessels-Mevissen Fellow, Internationales Kolleg Morphomata: Genese, Dynamik und Medialit?t kultureller Figurationen Universit?t zu K?ln Albertus-Magnus-Platz 50923 K?ln (Germany) Tel +49 (0)221 - 470 1294 http://www.ik-morphomata.uni-koeln.de/ c.wessels-mevissen at uni-koeln.de; corinnawessels at yahoo.de From hellwig7 at GMX.DE Tue Jun 8 11:21:15 2010 From: hellwig7 at GMX.DE (Oliver Hellwig) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 10 12:21:15 +0100 Subject: Nepali course Message-ID: <161227089720.23782.10409144966300666750.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 513 Lines: 18 Dear colleagues, On behalf of the SAI in Heidelberg, I forward the following announcement. Best regards, Oliver Hellwig Some seats in our Nepali Intensive Course are still available. It will be held from 2 to 27 August 2010 at the South Asia Institute, Heidelberg . For more information see: http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/studium/summerschool.php#nep Don?t miss the chance to learn and practice Nepali in a lively manner and apply as soon as possible to: anand.mishra at urz.uni-heidelberg.de From H.J.H.Tieken at HUM.LEIDENUNIV.NL Fri Jun 11 09:02:23 2010 From: H.J.H.Tieken at HUM.LEIDENUNIV.NL (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 10 11:02:23 +0200 Subject: bahumata and saadhumata Message-ID: <161227089722.23782.15859213392275961232.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 338 Lines: 6 Dear colleagues, I would very much like to know if there is a discussion in the traditional Sanskrit grammatical literature about the nature of the combinations bahumata and saadhumata and, if so, if they were interpreted or perceived as compounds or phrases. As far as I know compounds of this type with mata are rare. Herman Tieken From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Sat Jun 12 08:12:19 2010 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 10 10:12:19 +0200 Subject: Balthazar Solvyns Message-ID: <161227089725.23782.13793155233997380485.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3186 Lines: 77 dear colleagues, maybe some institutes/libraries/museums could be interested by the fact (I noted it yesterday evening in reading the newspaper) that a beautiful exemplar of Balthazar Solvyns's Les Hindous (bilingual French-English edition, Paris, 1808-12) will be soon sold at auction in Brussels http://www.godts.com/fr/contenu/db_result.asp?t=1&from=180&to=218 [n?191- description infra] http://www.godts.com/diaporama/vp_diapo.htm On Solvyns and his works, see: Robert L. Hardgrave, Jr. A Portrait of the Hindus: Balthazar Solvyns & the European Image of India 1760-1824, Oxford University Press, 2004 http://www.laits.utexas.edu/solvyns-project/index.html With best wishes, Christophe Vielle 191 - (Asie centrale, Inde) - SOLVYNS, Fran?ois Baltazard.- Les Hindo?s. PARIS, CHEZ L'AUTEUR ET CHEZ H. NICOLLE, (IMPR. MAME FR?RES), 1808 [- 1812]. 4 vol. in-f? (rousseurs p?les et qqs piq?res +/- concentr?es passim, surtout en fin et d?but de volume, un peu moins dans le tome III). Rel. d?but 19e s. : demi-veau ? grains crois?s rouge ? coins, plats de papier marbr?, dos lisses ? roul. fleuronn?es dor?es imitant des nerfs (coupes, coins, coiffes ?mouss?s, plats l?g. frott?s ou salis, pet. ?pidermures). ?DITION ORIGINALE juxtalin?aire fran?ais-anglais. Superbe iconographie grav?e mise en couleurs ? la poup?e, soit 288 grandes et belles planches naturalistes aux coloris d?licats, peintes par l'auteur (36 gravures sur doubles pages) avec le feuillet explicatif bilingue en vis-?-vis. Chaque tome est introduit par un faux titre, un titre illustr? d'une grande gravure aquarell?e et des introductions en fran?ais et en anglais. Le tome I est consacr? aux castes et aux coutumes religieuses. Le tome II aux costumes (haute et basse castes, fakirs, cipayes, danseurs...), aux musiciens et ? leurs instruments, aux diverses coutumes comme celle du sati ou sacrifice des veuves par immolation. Le tome III aux moyens de transport (bateaux dont bateaux d'apparat, voitures ? roues : carriole, charrettes..., d?placement ? dos d'animaux, palanquins...), aux diverses mani?res de fumer (10 planches), etc. Le tome IV est consacr? aux domestiques (fonction, costume, signes distinctifs...), aux arbres (tamarinier, jacquier...), ? l'?conomie agricole (riz, canne ? sucre, coton, indigo...), aux animaux (crocodile, orang-outang, serpent, scolopendre, oiseaux et insectes...) et ? diverses morphologies d'hommes ou femmes de castes. La premi?re mouture de l'ouvrage parut en 1799, en 250 planches, sous le titre "The Manners, Customs and Dresses of the Hindoos" et une tentative d'?dition in-4? fut publi?e en 60 planches en 1808. Ce superbe ouvrage est d? au belge Solvyns (Anvers, 1760-1824) qui ruina sa femme dans cette entreprise ?ditoriale. # Abbey, Aquatint, n? 430; # manque ? Chadenat. --> First bilingual edition (French-English) of this book originally published in English in 1799. Superb iconography in exquisite colors : 288 plates depicting castes, religious customs, dresses, vehicles, smoking, servants, trees, animals, etc. -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ From jkirk at SPRO.NET Sun Jun 13 22:18:21 2010 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 10 16:18:21 -0600 Subject: Query on vol.44 of the Harvard Oriental Series: Message-ID: <161227089727.23782.16010192132514662184.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 720 Lines: 23 Subhasitaratnakosa: An anthology of Sanskrit court poetry (Harvard Oriental Series, vol.44; Unesco collection of representative works, Indian series) [Import], Vidyakara (Author), Oxford U.P (1965). Amazon.com lists this title as currently unavailable. I assume that, as Ingalls said earlier on (in his article, A Sanskrit Poetry of Village and Field: Yoge?vara and His Fellow Poets. Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 74, No. 3, Jul. - Sep., 1954, pp. 119-131) this was the volume to be edited by DD Kosambi together with VV Gokhale. Does anyone know why it has become unavailable? and/or if it is allowed by some US university library to travel on ILL? Thanks for any help. Best wishes, Joanna K. From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Jun 14 15:05:14 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 10 10:05:14 -0500 Subject: Lost manuscript of Hanxleden's Sanskrit grammar rediscovered In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089731.23782.10402271107176248625.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 320 Lines: 15 What an exciting discovery! Heartfelt congratulations to all involved! May we look forward to the day when the work will be edited and published? Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From rrocher at SAS.UPENN.EDU Mon Jun 14 16:17:28 2010 From: rrocher at SAS.UPENN.EDU (Rosane Rocher) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 10 12:17:28 -0400 Subject: Lost manuscript of Hanxleden's Sanskrit grammar rediscovered In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089733.23782.7186955210945320205.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 621 Lines: 20 Thanks for posting this on the web. Again, we were very sorry not to be able to make it back to Belgium for the workshop. We look forward to the publication of this exciting find. Renewed congratulations and best wishes, Ludo and Rosane Rocher Christophe Vielle wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > For the ones interested in the XVIIIth century Indology, I have the > pleasure to announce that the lost manuscript of Johann Ernst > Hanxleden/Arnos Padiri's Sanskrit grammar has been found in an Italian > monastery. More about at: > http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ > With best wishes, > Christophe Vielle > From jkirk at SPRO.NET Mon Jun 14 21:38:52 2010 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 10 15:38:52 -0600 Subject: Query about HOS vols 42 & 44 closed Message-ID: <161227089738.23782.4980539450944865856.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 290 Lines: 12 Dear List, I wish to express my deep appreciation for the kindness of folks on this list for helping me to sort out my little problem about the HOS vols. 42 & 44, and who did which. Apparently both vols 42 and 44 are still available from Harvard....good news. Best wishes, Joanna K. From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Mon Jun 14 14:58:26 2010 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 10 16:58:26 +0200 Subject: Lost manuscript of Hanxleden's Sanskrit grammar rediscovered Message-ID: <161227089729.23782.1208174898294474313.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 416 Lines: 16 Dear colleagues, For the ones interested in the XVIIIth century Indology, I have the pleasure to announce that the lost manuscript of Johann Ernst Hanxleden/Arnos Padiri's Sanskrit grammar has been found in an Italian monastery. More about at: http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ With best wishes, Christophe Vielle -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET Mon Jun 14 18:27:54 2010 From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 10 19:27:54 +0100 Subject: Dr F. R. Allchin Message-ID: <161227089736.23782.854613830577887971.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 318 Lines: 14 I have to report the sad news that Dr F. R. (Raymond) Allchin died on Friday 4th June. Obituaries can be found on the websites of the Times: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article7146240.ece and the Ancient India and Iran Trust: http://www.indiran.co.uk/. Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Thu Jun 17 06:56:58 2010 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 10 08:56:58 +0200 Subject: Intensive Course in P=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81li?= Grammar and Syntax (reminder) Message-ID: <161227089740.23782.13281642925957161480.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2154 Lines: 70 Dear Colleagues, on behalf of the organisers, this brief reminder goes out for those possibly interested in an intensive course in P?li Grammar and Syntax, which will be held at the Indology Department of Martin Luther University Halle (Saale) from September 6th to 17th, 2010: http://www.indologie.uni-halle.de/aktuelles/poster_pali.pdf This course, comprising an introduction into P?li grammar and syntax as well as the reading of the P?timokkhasutta and the Ka?kh?vitara??, will be taught by Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz (Akademie der Wissenschaften und der Literatur, Mainz). The medium of teaching will be German. All those interested in the course are most welcome and kindly asked to register by July 1, 2010. The timing allows to attend the immediately following German Oriental Studies Congress (DOT) in Marburg (20-24 September). More details are available on our website: http://www.indologie.uni-halle.de/aktuelles/index.htm Please do pass on this message to anyone possibly interested. Contact: PD Dr. Annette Schmiedchen Dr. Katrin Einicke annette.schmiedchen at indologie.uni-halle.de katrin.einicke at indologie.uni-halle.de +49-(0)345/ 55 23650 +49-(0)345/ 55 23656 Kindly regarding, Walter Slaje ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Thu Jun 17 06:59:53 2010 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 10 08:59:53 +0200 Subject: Intensive Course in Vedic Grammar and Syntax (reminder) Message-ID: <161227089743.23782.7006975632453382908.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1773 Lines: 54 Dear Colleagues, on behalf of the organisers, this brief reminder goes out for those possibly interested in an intensive course in Vedic Grammar and Syntax ("Indian Summer in Halle 2010") which will be held at the Indology Department of Martin Luther University Halle (Saale) from September 27th to October 8th, 2010: http://www.indologie.uni-halle.de/aktuelles/poster_veda.pdf The course, comprising an introduction into Vedic grammar and syntax as well as the reading of Vedic hymns and prose, will be taught by Dr. Werner Knobl (Kyoto). The medium of teaching will be German. All those interested in the course are most welcome and kindly asked to register by July 1, 2010. Further details are available on our website: http://www.indologie.uni-halle.de/aktuelles/index.htm The classes start just after the German Oriental Studies Congress (DOT) in Marburg (20-24 September). More details are available on our website: http://www.indologie.uni-halle.de/aktuelles/index.htm Please do pass on this message to anyone possibly interested. Contact: PD Dr. Annette Schmiedchen Dr. Katrin Einicke annette.schmiedchen at indologie.uni-halle.de katrin.einicke at indologie.uni-halle.de +49-(0)345/ 55 23650 +49-(0)345/ 55 23656 Kindly regarding, Walter Slaje ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Jun 17 13:28:03 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 10 15:28:03 +0200 Subject: Fwd: eJIM New Issue Published In-Reply-To: <003301cb0e14$0d2e6430$278b2c90$@nl> Message-ID: <161227089746.23782.2139955792234486718.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1254 Lines: 37 I forward the announcement below and, wearing my Advisory Board member hat, I'd like to add that eJIM is interested in receiving submissions on, "traditional South Asian medical systems by qualified scholars in philology, medicine, pharmacology, botany, anthropology and sociology." ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Roelf Barkhuis Date: 17 June 2010 13:55 Subject: eJIM New Issue Published Dear Indologists, eJIM - eJournal of Indian Medicine - has just published its latest issue at http://www.indianmedicine.nl. We invite you to review the Table of Contents here below and then visit our web site to review articles and items of interest. eJIM currently has 509 registered readers. eJIM - eJournal of Indian Medicine, vol 3, No 1 (2010). Table of Contents: http://bjournals.ub.rug.nl/index.php/ejim/issue/view/32 Articles -------- - On what became of the Carakasa?hit? after D??habala?s revision (1-22) Philipp A. Maas - Memoirs of Vaidyas. The Lives and Practices of Traditional Medical Doctors in Kerala, India (4) (23-52) Tsutomu Yamashita, P. Ram Manohar - Folklore Medicinal Plants of Gulbarga District, Karnataka, India (53-60) N.K. Devendra, B.M. Vijaykumar, Y.Nn. Seetharam From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET Thu Jun 17 19:52:17 2010 From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 10 20:52:17 +0100 Subject: Article sought Message-ID: <161227089748.23782.15195678413291762914.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 528 Lines: 18 If anyone has access to the following article, I would be grateful if they could contact me off-list: Harrison, Paul, 1995, 'Searching for the Origins of the Mahayana: What Are We Looking For', The Eastern Buddhist, New Series, 28, 1, 1995, 48-69. I don't need the whole thing, just a couple of last-minute page references for a bibliography. I have the 2005 version, from Paul Williams, Buddhism: critical concepts in religious studies, but my copy editor thinks I should have both! Many thanks Valerie J Roebuck From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Fri Jun 18 06:18:13 2010 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 10 23:18:13 -0700 Subject: Raaladesha and more In-Reply-To: <16369_1276830121_1276830121_COL111-W30BFFD0A958CAAA68C4F84C5C00@phx.gbl> Message-ID: <161227089755.23782.819339304809599280.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1303 Lines: 14 IOn 2010-06-17, at 7:59 PM, Mahes Raj Pant wrote: > 1. Two Nepalese inscriptions, the one from early 17th and the other from early 18th century, record the meritorious acts of the Vasis.Thagotrin BhaTTa Brahmins hailing from Raaladesha, situated on the bank the Kaaverii river. The latter inscription spells the desha in question as RaaDa. There is no problem in la and ra because we know that ralayor abhedah.< Dear Dr. Pant, Your Raala/Raa.da is probably the Raa.dha/Laa.la mentioned on the following pages of D.C. Sirkar's _Studies in the Geography of Ancient and Medieval India_: 37n, 122, 131n, 158n, 170, 217 and 246n. Sircar puts Raa.dha in ancient Suhma or the Burdwan region of Southwest Bengal, which would conflict with the detail "on the bank the Kaaverii river" in your post. However, on none of the pages I have specified above does Sircar explain why Raa.dha should be located where he locates it. Nor in the specifics he gives about similarly sounding Raal and Laa.l (that he justifiably connects with Raa.dha) do I see any reason for accepting a location in Southwest Bengal. Therefore, at least for the present, I would say that your inscription may have given us the correct location of Raa.dha or a precious clue as to how far to the south Raa.dha extended. ashok aklujkar From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Fri Jun 18 02:05:07 2010 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 10 02:05:07 +0000 Subject: a stanza from the Raajamaarta.n.da of Bhoja, on Muhuurta Message-ID: <161227089750.23782.3619581431602102147.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1415 Lines: 27 Dear colleagues, In his commentary on "Saaradaatilakatantra 3.19, Raaghavabha.t.ta cites a stanza attributed to a Raajamaarta.n.da. The stanza is as follows (bismillah on the use of Devanaagarii): ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????? I don't have Pingree's Jyoti.h"saastra at hand, but have understood that it gives a reference, on p. 102, to a Raajamaarta.n.da on Muhuurta composed by Bhoja. Not having seen the reference, I don't know whether Pingree refers to a published or an unpublished text. Through a google search, I failed to find any answer to this question. If anyone knows off hand, or has the free time to check, and if the text is indeed published, I would greatly appreciate a reference to an available edition; I hardly dare ask, but a reference to the precise location where this verse occurs, if it can indeed be traced, would of course be ideal. For the same verse is cited in a ritual manual of the Orissa Paippalaada Atharvavedins, whose critical edition is being prepared by Shilpa Sumant and myself. Many thanks in advance. Arlo Griffiths -- EFEO/Jakarta _________________________________________________________________ New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more. http://windows.microsoft.com/shop From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Fri Jun 18 08:08:55 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 10 03:08:55 -0500 Subject: Raaladesha and more In-Reply-To: <3C767473-9862-4430-9588-7B224A3A29A4@ubc.ca> Message-ID: <161227089758.23782.7126881265652788263.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 390 Lines: 18 Dear colleagues, I agree that raala must be raaDha. The 11th c. play Prabodhacandrodaya unambiguously places raaDhadeza in gauDa (act 2, verse 7), so I do not think that the location in Bengal should be in question. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From mahesrajpant at MSN.COM Fri Jun 18 02:59:42 2010 From: mahesrajpant at MSN.COM (Mahes Raj Pant) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 10 04:59:42 +0200 Subject: Raaladesha and more Message-ID: <161227089753.23782.4774135047266008447.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1844 Lines: 34 Dear list members 1. Two Nepalese inscriptions, the one from early 17th and the other from early 18th century, record the meritorious acts of the Vasis.Thagotrin BhaTTa Brahmins hailing from Raaladesha, situated on the bank the Kaaverii river. The latter inscription spells the desha in question as RaaDa. There is no problem in la and ra because we know that ralayor abhedah. However, the problem lies in the identification of the desha mentioned in the inscriptions. Though I went through a few books on Indian historical geography and also on South Indian history, I failed in locating the Desha. Could you tell me where can I find the reference? 2. The sam.kalpavaakya, as you know, starts with om. adya brahmaNo dvitiiyaparaardhe s.vetavaaraahakalpe vaivasvatamanvantare'as.Taavim.shatitame caturyugasya kaleh. prathamapaade. I am not sure of with which to relate the word as.Taavim.shatitame. I have not seen the translation of the sam.kalpavakya except in Axel Michael 2005 (Sam.kalpa: the Beginnings of a Ritual, in Joerg Gengnagel, et al. ed., Words and Deeds, Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz Verlag, p. 52), in which he relates the word into enquiry with manvantara. Could you enlighten me in this matter? In passing, may I mention that Michaels' presentation of the text and translation of the sam.kalpavaakya are up to a certain point not correct: for example, he offers the text as paashupater ks.etre instead of pashupateh. ks.etre, or alternatively, paashupate ks.etre, and translates jalam aishaanyam. as 'to the noth' instead of ' to the norh-east'. Thanking youin advance, I remain. Sincerely yours Mahes Raj Pant _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET Fri Jun 18 08:10:06 2010 From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 10 09:10:06 +0100 Subject: Article sought Message-ID: <161227089760.23782.6362587289687255405.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 672 Lines: 20 I now have the information I need. Thank you to everyone who has offered help. Once again I am overwhelmed by the helpfulness of List Members. Valerie J Roebuck >If anyone has access to the following article, I would be grateful >if they could contact me off-list: > >Harrison, Paul, 1995, 'Searching for the Origins of the Mahayana: >What Are We Looking For', The Eastern Buddhist, New Series, 28, 1, >1995, 48-69. > >I don't need the whole thing, just a couple of last-minute page >references for a bibliography. I have the 2005 version, from Paul >Williams, Buddhism: critical concepts in religious studies, but my >copy editor thinks I should have both! From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Fri Jun 18 18:00:32 2010 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 10 11:00:32 -0700 Subject: Raaladesha and more In-Reply-To: <19288_1276848542_1276848542_20100618030855.CPV12844@m4500-02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227089762.23782.821914485043568698.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1821 Lines: 21 On 2010-06-18, at 1:08 AM, mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU wrote: > I agree that raala must be raaDha. > The 11th c. play Prabodhacandrodaya > unambiguously places raaDhadeza in gauDa > (act 2, verse 7), > so I do not think that the location in Bengal > should be in question. Dear Matthew, Thanks for drawing my attention to the occurrence of Raa.dhaa in the Prabodhacandrodaya verse (2.7). The expression used there is raa.dhaa-purii, not raa.dhaa-de;sa (which would not fit the metre anyway). This gives rise to a new question: Did Sircar in fact have unambiguous evidence in early sources to suppose that Raa.dha/Raa.dhaa was a country name, as distinct from a city name? I keep my mind open on the issue. Perhaps Richard Salomon, who knows Sircar's writings better than I do, can explain why Sircar (and possibly others) thought of Raa.dha/Raa.dhaa as a country name associable with Bengal and for how long this view is current among scholars. Secondly, Sirkar has separate essays on Gau.da, Va:nga, Va:ngaala etc. in the volume I referred to earlier. On pp. 125-128, he makes a good case for a wider meaning of Gau.da, 'eastern countries/regions (of India),' mainly on the basis of post-10th century sources. The lifetime of the Prabodhacandrodaya author, as you note, is the 11th century. It is, therefore, not implausible that in his perception Raa.dhaa extended up to the eastern region of Kaaverii's flow (if Raa.dhaa was primarily not the name of that region). (Wikipedia: "The origin of the river is traditionally placed at Talakaveri, Kodagu district in theWestern Ghats in the state of Karnataka, flows generally south and east through Karnataka and Tamil Nadu and across the southern Deccan plateau through the southeastern lowlands, emptying into the Bay of Bengal through two principal mouths." a.a. From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Jun 19 09:41:46 2010 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Sat, 19 Jun 10 09:41:46 +0000 Subject: Raaladesha and more In-Reply-To: <02F451F3-5AA9-4B4E-99F0-5059873D833B@ubc.ca> Message-ID: <161227089765.23782.12232650816886422751.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2734 Lines: 35 Dear Ashok, I am not sure what you mean by "early sources", but I believe there is plenty of unambiguous evidence that Raa.dhaa was primarily the name of a region, or perhaps the conglomerate of two regions often specified at Dak.si.na- and Uttara-Raa.dhaa, and one that is associable with what we now know as Bengal. See the several references under this toponym in Puspa Niyogi, Brahmanic Settlements in Different Subdivisions of Ancient Bengal. Calcutta, Indian Studies: Past & Present, 1967. Arlo Griffiths -- EFEO/Jakarta ---------------------------------------- > Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:00:32 -0700 > From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Raaladesha and more > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > On 2010-06-18, at 1:08 AM, mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU wrote: > >> I agree that raala must be raaDha. >> The 11th c. play Prabodhacandrodaya >> unambiguously places raaDhadeza in gauDa >> (act 2, verse 7), >> so I do not think that the location in Bengal >> should be in question. > > Dear Matthew, > > Thanks for drawing my attention to the occurrence of Raa.dhaa in the Prabodhacandrodaya verse (2.7). The expression used there is raa.dhaa-purii, not raa.dhaa-de;sa (which would not fit the metre anyway). This gives rise to a new question: Did Sircar in fact have unambiguous evidence in early sources to suppose that Raa.dha/Raa.dhaa was a country name, as distinct from a city name? I keep my mind open on the issue. Perhaps Richard Salomon, who knows Sircar's writings better than I do, can explain why Sircar (and possibly others) thought of Raa.dha/Raa.dhaa as a country name associable with Bengal and for how long this view is current among scholars. > > Secondly, Sirkar has separate essays on Gau.da, Va:nga, Va:ngaala etc. in the volume I referred to earlier. On pp. 125-128, he makes a good case for a wider meaning of Gau.da, 'eastern countries/regions (of India),' mainly on the basis of post-10th century sources. The lifetime of the Prabodhacandrodaya author, as you note, is the 11th century. It is, therefore, not implausible that in his perception Raa.dhaa extended up to the eastern region of Kaaverii's flow (if Raa.dhaa was primarily not the name of that region). > > (Wikipedia: "The origin of the river is traditionally placed at Talakaveri, Kodagu district in theWestern Ghats in the state of Karnataka, flows generally south and east through Karnataka and Tamil Nadu and across the southern Deccan plateau through the southeastern lowlands, emptying into the Bay of Bengal through two principal mouths." > > a.a. _________________________________________________________________ New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more. http://windows.microsoft.com/shop From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sat Jun 19 14:01:49 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 19 Jun 10 16:01:49 +0200 Subject: Raaladesha and more In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089767.23782.15603319023789770093.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3340 Lines: 73 I was surprised that there is any doubt about R??h? being a region in current West Bengal, part of Burdwan (Vardhamana); this is standard information in Bengal sources, for example the *Ball?lacarita* and the various *Vaidyakulapa?jik?* texts. See, e.g., Dilip Chakrabarti, and other sources. Dominik On 19 June 2010 11:41, Arlo Griffiths wrote: > Dear Ashok, > I am not sure what you mean by "early sources", but I believe there is > plenty of unambiguous evidence that Raa.dhaa was primarily the name of a > region, or perhaps the conglomerate of two regions often specified at > Dak.si.na- and Uttara-Raa.dhaa, and one that is associable with what we now > know as Bengal. See the several references under this toponym in Puspa > Niyogi, Brahmanic Settlements in Different Subdivisions of Ancient Bengal. > Calcutta, Indian Studies: Past & Present, 1967. > Arlo Griffiths -- EFEO/Jakarta > > ---------------------------------------- > > Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:00:32 -0700 > > From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA > > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Raaladesha and more > > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > > > On 2010-06-18, at 1:08 AM, mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU wrote: > > > >> I agree that raala must be raaDha. > >> The 11th c. play Prabodhacandrodaya > >> unambiguously places raaDhadeza in gauDa > >> (act 2, verse 7), > >> so I do not think that the location in Bengal > >> should be in question. > > > > Dear Matthew, > > > > Thanks for drawing my attention to the occurrence of Raa.dhaa in the > Prabodhacandrodaya verse (2.7). The expression used there is raa.dhaa-purii, > not raa.dhaa-de;sa (which would not fit the metre anyway). This gives rise > to a new question: Did Sircar in fact have unambiguous evidence in early > sources to suppose that Raa.dha/Raa.dhaa was a country name, as distinct > from a city name? I keep my mind open on the issue. Perhaps Richard Salomon, > who knows Sircar's writings better than I do, can explain why Sircar (and > possibly others) thought of Raa.dha/Raa.dhaa as a country name associable > with Bengal and for how long this view is current among scholars. > > > > Secondly, Sirkar has separate essays on Gau.da, Va:nga, Va:ngaala etc. in > the volume I referred to earlier. On pp. 125-128, he makes a good case for a > wider meaning of Gau.da, 'eastern countries/regions (of India),' mainly on > the basis of post-10th century sources. The lifetime of the > Prabodhacandrodaya author, as you note, is the 11th century. It is, > therefore, not implausible that in his perception Raa.dhaa extended up to > the eastern region of Kaaverii's flow (if Raa.dhaa was primarily not the > name of that region). > > > > (Wikipedia: "The origin of the river is traditionally placed at > Talakaveri, Kodagu district in theWestern Ghats in the state of Karnataka, > flows generally south and east through Karnataka and Tamil Nadu and across > the southern Deccan plateau through the southeastern lowlands, emptying into > the Bay of Bengal through two principal mouths." > > > > a.a. > > _________________________________________________________________ > New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more. > http://windows.microsoft.com/shop From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Sun Jun 20 12:27:48 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 10 17:57:48 +0530 Subject: rAlA Message-ID: <161227089769.23782.1918388509430063017.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 147 Lines: 8 It seemed that Mr. Pant meant r??a. The mid-Bengal region is known as R??ha. ?As far as known to me there is no K?ver? ?river there. Best DB From mahesrajpant at MSN.COM Sun Jun 20 16:04:00 2010 From: mahesrajpant at MSN.COM (Mahes Raj Pant) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 10 18:04:00 +0200 Subject: Raala RaaDa Message-ID: <161227089774.23782.16995743044202481202.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1116 Lines: 50 Dear Professor Goodall The first inscription is completely in Sanskrit and reads the pertinent passage as such: kaaveriisaritaamvaraaNkitamahadraalaakhyadeshaashrito The second one is in two languages, viz. in Sanskrit, as usual, the mundane things in Newari. The portion that interests us is as follows: putrash caarukaRaaDadeshajamahaadevasya naaraayaNah. kshetram. geham adaat suraaryyana --vaasis.Thagotrodbhavah. In the above line, one can dissolve the words in question as caaru karaaDa desha, if he knows that a country named KaraaDa exists. I took the ka between caaru and raaDa as a kan suffix to caaru thinking that it was used to fill the metre. The language of both inscriptions are not so elegant, so to say.You might have already noticed in the lines I quoted from the first inscription the order of words in the compound is faulty. Regards. Yours Mahes Raj Pant _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Sun Jun 20 13:49:10 2010 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 10 19:19:10 +0530 Subject: rAlA In-Reply-To: <324800.68666.qm@web94808.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227089771.23782.6553728270233733300.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 660 Lines: 24 Dear Dr. Pant, After all this discussion, I am quite curious to see a little bit of the inscriptions, partly just to exclude the possibility that the expression which explains where these Vasi.s.thagotrin Bha.t.tas hail from might be analysed differently. Could they have come, for instance, from the deltaic region between branches of the Kaaverii: [kaaveriinadyanta]-raalade"sa ? Are the inscriptions in Sanskrit ? Dominic Goodall On 20 Jun 2010, at 17:57, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > It seemed that Mr. Pant meant r??a. The mid-Bengal region is known > as R??ha. As far as known to me there is no K?ver? river there. > Best > DB > > From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Mon Jun 21 06:21:00 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 10 11:51:00 +0530 Subject: Raala RaaDa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089776.23782.6902217584136291654.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1560 Lines: 69 Many thanks, Dr. Pant! Will you kindly inform if?the following transliterations into DevnagarI have been?correct? ? ??????????????????????????????????????????... ???????????????????????????? ???????... Best wishes DB --- On Sun, 20/6/10, Mahes Raj Pant wrote: From: Mahes Raj Pant Subject: [INDOLOGY] Raala RaaDa To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Sunday, 20 June, 2010, 4:04 PM Dear Professor Goodall The first inscription is completely in Sanskrit and reads the pertinent passage as such: kaaveriisaritaamvaraaNkitamahadraalaakhyadeshaashrito The second one is in two languages, viz. in Sanskrit, as usual, the mundane things in Newari. The portion that interests us is as follows: putrash caarukaRaaDadeshajamahaadevasya naaraayaNah. kshetram. geham adaat suraaryyana --vaasis.Thagotrodbhavah. In the above line, one can dissolve the words in question as caaru? karaaDa? desha, if he knows that a country named KaraaDa exists. I took the ka between caaru and raaDa as a kan suffix? to caaru thinking that it was used to fill the metre. The language of both inscriptions are not so elegant, so to say.You might have already noticed in the lines I quoted from the first inscription the order of words in the compound is faulty. Regards. Yours Mahes Raj Pant ??? ???????? ?????? ??? ? _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 From mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM Mon Jun 21 16:21:27 2010 From: mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 10 12:21:27 -0400 Subject: Jaisalmer Devanagari font Message-ID: <161227089782.23782.9388163968596099675.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 238 Lines: 7 I have been looking for "Jaisalmer Devanagari font". Can someone help me out with downloading this font? I have tried to search it online but was unsuccessful downloading it. Any help would be highly appreciated. Thanks Mrinal Kaul From jemhouben at GMAIL.COM Mon Jun 21 12:41:26 2010 From: jemhouben at GMAIL.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 10 14:41:26 +0200 Subject: publication on recent history of indology : Erich Frauwallner und der Nationalsozialismus Message-ID: <161227089778.23782.3890818291290665185.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2879 Lines: 76 Publication announcement: Jakob Stuchlik: Der arische Ansatz: Erich Frauwallner und der Nationalsozialismus. 2009 Verlag der ?sterreichischen Akademie der Wissenschaften Austrian Academy of Sciences Press A-1011 Wien, Postgasse 7/4 ISBN 978-3-7001-6724-2 Print Edition ISBN 978-3-7001-6875-1 Online Edition Sitzungsberichte der phil.-hist. Klasse 797.Band 2009, 202 Seiten, 22,5x15cm, broschiert ? 42,? (http://epub.oeaw.ac.at/6724-2, oben links: Online Edition). My fast rendering of publisher's info: The ?Aryan approach? was repeatedly propagated by Erich Frauwallner at the intersection between Indology and society, where it apparently was a matter of presenting the results of detailed Indological research in the form of a compact and ?well-established? image of India to a wider audience. Especially in the Germanspeaking world and in Japan, Frauwallner has gone down in the history of his discipline, above all in the area of Buddhist Studies, as a scholarly authority. This influential scholarly reputation has led to the identification of the India-image presented by Frauwallner as identical with India itself. Since in its basic structure this picture is ?Aryanizing? and racist, it also contributes to the impression of an ?unholy alliance? between India and Nazi Germany. As long as the Nazi context in Frauwallner?s activity as a scholar and teacher is ignored, either by being passed over in silence or by being made to appear harmless, as has been done for decades in the Germanspeaking world, there can be no serious discussion concerning the degree to which ideology encumbers his scholarly and scholarly-political oeuvre. What exactly is being transmitted or inherited when Frauwallner is acclaimed as an authority and his philology considered exemplary scholarly work? In this book, the author examines the ?Aryan approach? not ?only? as a repeatedly presented racist periodization of Indian philosophy, but also as the conceptual key to the scholarly and scholarly-political work, and indeed to the life of a staunch Nazi. In the process, he exposes many facets of dubious dealings with the past, both before and after 1945. The importance of this book for the HISTORY of Indology is clear. Here I would also like to emphasize the indologically most relevant points raised by the author, Dr. Jakob Stuchlik: - that Frauwallner's periodization was a step backward compared to an earlier discussion by Goetz; - and that his approach would have led to an "Ueberbewertung der diskursiven Erkenntnis an der Objektebene seiner Wissenschaft". In addition, a Vorwort by Ernst Steinkellner is available at: steinkellner_vorwort_stuchlik_2009.pdf -- Prof. Dr. Jan E.M. Houben, Directeur d Etudes ? Sources et Histoire de la Tradition Sanskrite ? Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, SHP, A la Sorbonne,45-47, rue des Ecoles, 75005 Paris -- France. From richard.gombrich at BALLIOL.OX.AC.UK Mon Jun 21 15:30:17 2010 From: richard.gombrich at BALLIOL.OX.AC.UK (Richard Gombrich) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 10 16:30:17 +0100 Subject: Summer courses in Oxford Message-ID: <161227089780.23782.5394681936694559622.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6975 Lines: 162 The Oxford Centre for Buddhist Studies and the Society for the Wider Understanding of the Buddhist Tradition are offering two free courses in Oxford this summer. 1. Pali Summer School. The Society for the Wider Understanding of the Buddhist Tradition (So-Wide) offers an intensive Pali course this summer, 14-26 August inclusive. Aim. At the end of the course you should be able, using the normal aids available, i.e. dictionaries, grammars and translations, slowly to read a Pali canonical text and understand it for yourself. Is this really possible? I devised the course and have already given it five times with great success. Pali can be learnt in twelve days because the aim is only to read it, not to write or speak it ? though you do learn to pronounce it and recite a few chants. There is also much less emphasis on memorisation than in a traditional course: why memorise things you can easily look up? Method. Accordingly, the course is built on learning how to use the Pali-English Dictionary published by the Pali Text Society (www.palitext.com ). The course begins with learning Pali alphabetical order (it is a good idea to start on this before arriving) and throughout the course each pupil is constantly using the Dictionary. Tables of the main grammatical forms are supplied and, again, students constantly consult them for themselves, until they become familiar. You are strongly encouraged to buy your own copy of the Dictionary. If you live overseas and do not want to carry it to Oxford, you may ask the Pali Text Society, when you buy it, to post it to you at the OCBS Office (address below). Students and teachers sit round a table together throughout the course. Students are urged to keep asking questions, and to work in cooperation. Organisation. The first day, 14 August, is in a sense preliminary. Mr. Geoffrey Bamford will explain the grammatical terms and principles you need to understand for the course. Experience has shown us that unless you have already studied Latin, Greek or Sanskrit you definitely should attend. The rest of the course is extremely intensive. It is cumulative, so that to miss an early lesson is disastrous. The one rigid rule is that no one may miss a class in the first week. We shall work out the precise timetable when we meet, but the general pattern will be that there will be classes each day from 9.30 to 5.30, with a long lunch break. There will be homework every evening. The course will end at mid-day on Thursday 26th; I hope we can then all lunch together. Content. We shall start to read original texts from the first Monday. I shall be open to suggestions about texts to read. Besides the Pali language, the course will discuss the Pali canon and many questions concerning the Buddha?s teaching and our evidence for it. Practical Arrangements. The course will take place at the main (Headington) campus of Oxford Brookes University. Students who do not live locally will be housed in single rooms in Clive Booth Hall (formerly Morrell Hall), which is ten minutes easy walk from the main campus on the Gipsy Lane site, where the classes will be held (http://www.brookes.ac.uk/studying/accommodation/halls/clivebooth ). I am afraid that normally there is no parking available. There are cooking facilities at Clive Booth Hall, at no extra charge. There are bar and cafeteria facilities, including breakfast, on the Gipsy Lane site, except on Sundays, and we shall ourselves maintain a supply of tea and coffee in the lecture room. The charge for the bedroom is ?25.00 per night, payable in advance for the whole course. My tuition and course materials are provided free, but we have to pay for some teaching assistance, the lecture room and some other expenses. We are therefore charging each student ?150.00. Since this sum will not entirely cover our expenses, any further donation will be very welcome. Booking. Please apply to me, Richard Gombrich, at Richard.gombrich at balliol.ox.ac.uk , asap. When applying, please supply full contact details, including telephone, and let me know your highest educational qualification. We also need to know whether you require accommodation, and if so whether you want it for the night of Friday 13 August. The closing date for applications is 14 July and by that date we require payment in advance. Normally that would be ?325 for accommodation (if you are staying the first Friday night) + ?150 fee, total: ?475.00. If you feel you can afford to make that up to or towards ?1,000, so much the better. Please send a sterling cheque payable to the Society for the Wider Understanding of the Buddhist Tradition. I am afraid it is too expensive for us to accept payment in a foreign currency. Please address your payment to OCBS Office attention Hazel Benyon, Wolfson College, Linton Road, Oxford OX2 6UD. Admittance will be first come, first served. No more than 14 will be admitted, so hurry to book a place. 2. Meditation in Yog?c?ra Buddhism Teacher: Professor Florin Deleanu Course content: The course will offer an introduction to the formation and early history of the meditative path of spiritual cultivation in the Yog?c?ra tradition (also known as Yog?c?ra-Vij??nav?da or Cittam?tra), one of the major Mah?y?na schools in the Indian Buddhism. We shall first survey some of the earlier ?r?vakay?na and Mah?y?na ideas which influenced the formation of the Yog?c?ra path of spiritual cultivation. Then we shall focus on this path as it appears depicted in some of the key texts of the school, such as the Bodhisattvabh?mi, Sa?dhinirmocanas?tra, Mah?y?nas?tr?la?k?ra, Madhy?ntavibh?gabh??ya, Mah?y?nasa?graha, etc. Throughout the course, attention will also be paid to the basic Yog?c?ra doctrines which are closely connected to its spiritual praxis. Requirements: Knowledge of canonical Buddhist languages is not required. However, if most of the participants are familiar with any of the major languages of the Buddhist tradition, i.e. Sanskrit, Pali, Classical Tibetan, and Classical Chinese, more emphasis can be placed on reading and analysing primary sources related to Yog?c?ra meditative praxis. Dates of course: 1 -14 September Wednesday 1 September - Tuesday 14 September (except weekends: Saturday 4 September, Sunday 5 September, Saturday 11 September, and Sunday 12 September) Daily timetable: 3-6 p.m. 1st Class: 3:00 ? 4:00 4:00-4:30: coffee break 2nd Class: 4:30-5:30 5:30-6:00: questions and discussion Venue: OCBS premises, Wolfson College A charge of ?40 for administrative expenses will be payable on arrival in Oxford. Bookings should be made through me, and all inquiries addressed to me. Richard Gombrich From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Tue Jun 22 04:03:13 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 10 09:33:13 +0530 Subject: Raala RaaDa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089785.23782.17787317197270643557.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2618 Lines: 103 Thanks Dr. Pant! But if it is ??? and ??? in the inscriptions, should not ??? be excluded? I cannot tell about the source, but sometime I saw a similar problem rising with ?????? from where Vijayasimha is said to have come to Sri Lanka. Best wishes for all DB --- On Mon, 21/6/10, Mahes Raj Pant wrote: From: Mahes Raj Pant Subject: RE: [INDOLOGY] Raala RaaDa To: dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com Date: Monday, 21 June, 2010, 4:19 PM Dear Professor Bhattacharya ? Your transliteration into?Nagari is correct, though a minor correction in the second line is necessary: kaDaaDa is to be?changed into karaaDa. ? Regards. ? MRP ? > Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 11:51:00 +0530 > From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Raala RaaDa > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Many thanks, Dr. Pant! > Will you kindly inform if?the following transliterations into DevnagarI have been?correct? > ? > ??????????????????????????????????????????... > ???????????????????????????? ???????... > Best wishes > DB > > --- On Sun, 20/6/10, Mahes Raj Pant wrote: > > > From: Mahes Raj Pant > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Raala RaaDa > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Sunday, 20 June, 2010, 4:04 PM > > > Dear Professor Goodall > > > > The first inscription is completely in Sanskrit and reads the pertinent passage as such: > > kaaveriisaritaamvaraaNkitamahadraalaakhyadeshaashrito > > > > The second one is in two languages, viz. in Sanskrit, as usual, the mundane things in Newari. The portion that interests us is as follows: > > putrash caarukaRaaDadeshajamahaadevasya naaraayaNah. > > kshetram. geham adaat suraaryyana --vaasis.Thagotrodbhavah. > > > > In the above line, one can dissolve the words in question as caaru? karaaDa? desha, if he knows that a country named KaraaDa exists. I took the ka between caaru and raaDa as a kan suffix? to caaru thinking that it was used to fill the metre. > > > > The language of both inscriptions are not so elegant, so to say.You might have already noticed in the lines I quoted from the first inscription the order of words in the compound is faulty. > > > > Regards. > > > > Yours > > > > Mahes Raj Pant > > > > > > > > > ??? ???????? ?????? ??? ? > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection. > https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 > > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now. From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM Tue Jun 22 18:31:59 2010 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 10 19:31:59 +0100 Subject: Gandhari Prajnaparamita ? Message-ID: <161227089788.23782.14669525240035317746.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 335 Lines: 13 Dear Colleagues, In the appendix to his new index of Lokak?ema's A??as?hasrik? PP, Dr Karashima mentions the recent discovery of a G?ndh?r? text of (presumably) a proto-A??asahasrika PP. He is a bit vague about this and does not give any details. Can anybody clarify for me what has been found etc. Many thanks, Stephen Hodge From kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Tue Jun 22 19:51:12 2010 From: kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Birgit Kellner) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 10 21:51:12 +0200 Subject: Gandhari Prajnaparamita ? In-Reply-To: <7DA0203811E2420F915EF0D6B4F984A4@zen> Message-ID: <161227089790.23782.3612390260509776951.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 704 Lines: 24 Am 22.06.2010 20:31, schrieb Stephen Hodge: > Dear Colleagues, > > In the appendix to his new index of Lokak?ema's A??as?hasrik? PP, Dr > Karashima mentions the recent discovery of a G?ndh?r? text of (presumably) a > proto-A??asahasrika PP. He is a bit vague about this and does not give any > details. Can anybody clarify for me what has been found etc. > > Many thanks, > > Stephen Hodge Might he be referring to a text in the Bajaur collection? In any case, the website of the Bajaur collection project in Berlin, which offers much information and valuable materials, definitely deserves a link :-) http://www.geschkult.fu-berlin.de/e/indologie/bajaur/index.html Best regards, Birgit Kellner From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM Tue Jun 22 22:18:53 2010 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 10 23:18:53 +0100 Subject: Gandhari Prajnaparamita ? Message-ID: <161227089792.23782.1063775700711623318.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1169 Lines: 37 Forwarded to list: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Baums" To: "Stephen Hodge" ; "Birgit Kellner" Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 10:43 PM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Gandhari Prajnaparamita ? > Dear Stephen and Birgit, > > this manuscript is not part of the Bajaur Collection, but belongs to > another, smaller set of Gandhari scrolls that are being edited and > studied by Harry Falk at the Freie Universitat Berlin. Apart from the > mention in Seishi Karashima's book, this collection has not yet been > described in print. An overview article is, however, under preparation > by Harry Falk, and a placeholder entry for this manuscript in our > Catalog of Gandhari Texts (to be completed when the overview is > published) is located here: > > http://ebmp.org/a_manuscript.php?catid=CKM0371 > > All best, > Stefan > > PS. I am sending this email to you directly because I cannot post to > Indology from my current email setup. Feel free to forward the > information to the list. > > -- > Dr. Stefan Baums > Graduate School of Literature > Bukkyo University From zysk at HUM.KU.DK Wed Jun 23 05:41:38 2010 From: zysk at HUM.KU.DK (Kenneth Zysk) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 10 07:41:38 +0200 Subject: Surya namaskara Message-ID: <161227089794.23782.839399998184637980.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 537 Lines: 30 On behalf of a student, I would like to ask if there are any textual references to the so-called Suuryanamaskaara exercise, which forms part of many modern forms of yoga. Feel free to contact me off-line. Best, Ken Kenneth Zysk Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Asian Studies Section Artillerivej 86 DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark Ph: +45 3532 8951 Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Wed Jun 23 14:29:53 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 10 09:29:53 -0500 Subject: Kashmir and the Mongols Message-ID: <161227089799.23782.9218905258926087038.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 441 Lines: 20 Might one of you kind people have access to a short article from the Central Asiatic Journal and be able to send me a scan? The reference is: K. Jahn, "A Note on Kashmir and the Mongols," in Central Asiatic Journal, II (3), 1956. pp. 176-80. With thanks in advance, Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From e.demichelis at YMAIL.COM Wed Jun 23 10:12:46 2010 From: e.demichelis at YMAIL.COM (Elizabeth De Michelis) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 10 10:12:46 +0000 Subject: Surya namaskara In-Reply-To: <92CFF9099CAE6A489B45DCBF475C32269EAB18@exchangesrv1.hum2005.hum.ku.dk> Message-ID: <161227089796.23782.10319809588756899436.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1063 Lines: 51 Mark Singleton in his _Yoga Body: The Origin of Modern Postu Dear Ken, Mark Singleton in his _Yoga Body: The Origin of Modern Posture Practice_ (OUP, 2010) discusses S?ryanamask?r and the history of its modern assimilation at some length, and provides further references. Best regards Elizabeth De Michelis Independent scholar Cambridge, UK ________________________________ From: Kenneth Zysk To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Wed, 23 June, 2010 6:41:38 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Surya namaskara On behalf of a student, I would like to ask if there are any textual references to the so-called Suuryanamaskaara exercise, which forms part of many modern forms of yoga. Feel free to contact me off-line. Best, Ken Kenneth Zysk Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Asian Studies Section Artillerivej 86 DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark Ph: +45 3532 8951 Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk From corinnawessels at YAHOO.DE Thu Jun 24 10:25:34 2010 From: corinnawessels at YAHOO.DE (Corinna Wessels-Mevissen) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 10 10:25:34 +0000 Subject: Heinrich Zimmer Chair to be inaugurated in Heidelberg on Monday Message-ID: <161227089801.23782.17955067706554266375.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 420 Lines: 18 Dear All, Many of you would be aware of this already - I wasn't until I found a note in Wikipedia (German WIKI, "Heinrich Zimmer", Indologist) just five minutes ago. The event is so important that I thought of making it known to others. Watching it via livestream is a wonderful opportunity at least. Here is the shortened url of the information page: http://tiny.cc/4qzsk Best wishes, Corinna Wessels-Mevissen From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU Thu Jun 24 14:56:21 2010 From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John C. Huntington) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 10 10:56:21 -0400 Subject: None In-Reply-To: <20100624140217.40550.qmail@f5mail-236-220.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: <161227089805.23782.14980867447194516806.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1105 Lines: 35 Dear Anand, The Nilopadma is very real. We would call it a water-lily and now know it in many color variants. However it exists in sculpture as early as Bharhut and Sanchi and continues to the present day in Buddhist iconographics as a symbol of wisdom (prajna) held by both Shyama Tara and Manjusri. I will send Anand an off-list picture of one. Anyone else who would like one, please let me know and I will resend the same e-mail to you. John On Jun 24, 2010, at 10:02 AM, Anand Dilip wrote: > Dear freinds, > Weather NEELOLPALAM(blue lotus)is a myth or reality? > Dr.Anand > > > -- > BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 1055454415) is spam: > Spam: https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=1055454415&m=21a0fc9e3adc&c=s > Not spam: https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=1055454415&m=21a0fc9e3adc&c=n > Forget vote: https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=1055454415&m=21a0fc9e3adc&c=f > ------------------------------------------------------ > END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Thu Jun 24 17:09:32 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 10 12:09:32 -0500 Subject: Kashmir and mongols In-Reply-To: <20100624140217.40550.qmail@f5mail-236-220.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: <161227089809.23782.9572430260754339662.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 321 Lines: 16 Dear friends I have now received Jahn's article. No need for anyone to go to further trouble. As ever, my thanks to those who responded. Matthew Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From sucindram_omlr at REDIFFMAIL.COM Thu Jun 24 14:02:17 2010 From: sucindram_omlr at REDIFFMAIL.COM (Anand Dilip) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 10 14:02:17 +0000 Subject: None Message-ID: <161227089803.23782.8065406936837254180.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 118 Lines: 6 Dear freinds, Weather NEELOLPALAM(blue lotus)is a myth or reality? Dr.Anand From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM Thu Jun 24 17:07:27 2010 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 10 18:07:27 +0100 Subject: Gandhari Prajnaparamita ? Message-ID: <161227089807.23782.3042300522258909410.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 251 Lines: 9 Thanks for the information on- and off-list. If the C14 dating is reliable (BCE, not CE), an incredibly significant find, which also raises the possibility that there is more early Mahayana stuff somewhere out there. Best wishes, Stephen Hodge From thomaskintaert at GMAIL.COM Fri Jun 25 12:40:21 2010 From: thomaskintaert at GMAIL.COM (Thomas Kintaert) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 10 13:40:21 +0100 Subject: blue lotus Message-ID: <161227089811.23782.3922798817839967499.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 647 Lines: 27 Dear Anand, You might want to have a look at these two articles by J?rgen Hanneder: (1) The Blue Lotus. Oriental Research between Philology, Botany and Poetics? Zeitschrift der Deutschen Morgenl?ndischen Gesellschaft 152 (2002) 295-308. (2) Some common errors concerning water-lilies and lotuses. Indo-Iranian Journal 50 (2007) 161-164. Best, Thomas On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 14:02:17 -0000, Anand Dilip wrote: >Dear freinds, > Weather NEELOLPALAM(blue lotus)is a myth or reality? > Dr.Anand >========================================================================= From garzilli at ASIATICA.ORG Fri Jun 25 14:29:01 2010 From: garzilli at ASIATICA.ORG (Enrica Garzilli) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 10 16:29:01 +0200 Subject: blue lotus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089814.23782.3733834711227995142.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1206 Lines: 41 You might like to see also Enrica Garzilli, 14. ?The Flowers of R.gveda Hymns: Lotus in V.78.7, X.184.2, X.107.10, VI.16.13, and VII.33.11, VI.61.2, VIII.1.33, X.142.8? in Indo-Iranian Journal, vol. 46, no. 4 (Fall 2003), pp. 293-314, and Idem, ?Flowers of Consciousness in Tantric Texts: The Sacred Lotus? in Pandanus 2000. Flowers, Nature, Semiotics - Kavya and Sangam, ed. by Vacek, Jaroslav and Knotkov?-Kapkov?, Prague: Signeta, 2001, pp. 73-102. Best, Dr Enrica Garzilli Thomas Kintaert wrote: > Dear Anand, > > You might want to have a look at these two articles by J??rgen Hanneder: > > (1) > The Blue Lotus. Oriental Research between Philology, Botany and Poetics? > Zeitschrift der Deutschen Morgenl??ndischen Gesellschaft 152 (2002) 295-308. > > (2) > Some common errors concerning water-lilies and lotuses. Indo-Iranian Journal > 50 (2007) 161-164. > > Best, > > Thomas > > > On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 14:02:17 -0000, Anand Dilip > wrote: > >> Dear freinds, >> Weather NEELOLPALAM(blue lotus)is a myth or reality? >> Dr.Anand >> ========================================================================= From kiepue at T-ONLINE.DE Fri Jun 25 15:06:57 2010 From: kiepue at T-ONLINE.DE (=?utf-8?Q?petra_kieffer-P=C3=BClz?=) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 10 17:06:57 +0200 Subject: Kumarila Message-ID: <161227089816.23782.3442315389597409191.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 783 Lines: 37 Dear All, I've got a corrupt (pada b and d) sloka in the Vajirabuddhitika , the source of which is given as "a sloka by Kumarita or Kumarila". I did not succeed in locating the sanskrit version, and would be grateful for any hint. The verse is given as vattamaanesu vijjaanam atiitesv assa sarati anaagatesu dhammesu sarati vijjaanapa.nidhiiti For pada b Lance Cousins suggested the emendation: atiitesu anussati, pada d remains unclear. The verse is quoted in the context of the discussion how one can speak of recollection in a section dealing with vidyaa. Best, Petra Kieffer-P?lz *************************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2 99423 Weimar Germany Tel. 03643/770447 email: kiepue at t-online.de petra.kieffer-puelz at adwmainz.de From theodor at RESEARCH.HAIFA.AC.IL Sat Jun 26 05:32:26 2010 From: theodor at RESEARCH.HAIFA.AC.IL (Ithamar Theodor) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 10 08:32:26 +0300 Subject: Book publication announcement Message-ID: <161227089818.23782.9087997771159259989.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 557 Lines: 53 Dear all, I am pleased to announce the publication of my book ?Exploring the Bhagavad gita; Philosophy, Structure and Meaning?. Further details could be found at the publisher?s website at: http://www.ashgate.com/isbn/9780754666585 Thanks, Ithamar Theodor The University of Haifa and the Chinese University of Hong Kong theodor at orange.net.il ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This message was sent using IMP, the Webmail Program of Haifa University From rrocher at SAS.UPENN.EDU Sat Jun 26 14:14:38 2010 From: rrocher at SAS.UPENN.EDU (Rosane Rocher) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 10 10:14:38 -0400 Subject: old Swedish article Message-ID: <161227089820.23782.11935437155016214579.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 403 Lines: 11 Might a kind colleague in or about Sweden be able to verify the page numbers and provide the original title of an article the Uppsala professor Vilhelm Fredrick Palmblad published in /Svea:/ /Tidskrift foer Vetenskap och Konst/, vol. 2 (1819): pp. 1-168. The title, as transmitted in German, is "Abhandlungen ueber die Urkunden der Hindus." I would be most grateful. Rosane Rocher / / From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Jun 27 13:49:51 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 10 15:49:51 +0200 Subject: Graduiertenkolleg Stipendien In-Reply-To: <1541236036.3156372.1277115727687.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb030> Message-ID: <161227089822.23782.1756416829608124427.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2967 Lines: 79 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Janet Glausch Date: 21 June 2010 12:22 Subject: Re: FW: Graduiertenkolleg Stipendien *Doctoral scholarships* *Graduate college "Religious Non-conformism and Cultural Dynamics" University of Leipzig* Deadline: 18 July 2010 The graduate college "Religious Non-conformism and Cultural Dynamics" will award 5 doctoral scholarships for a period of maximum three years, beginning on 1 October 2010. The college conducts research on religious non-conformism in various regional and temporal contexts. The central thesis is that religious non-conformism is an essential element of the religious field and a potential resource of alternative meaning and orientation, constituting an element of cultural tension and dynamics. The project is arranged along three lines of interest: (1) The tension between religious non-conformism and conformity, i.e. the dominant forms of (religious) orientations and ways of life. (2) The innovative potential and the transforming dynamics of religious non-conformism. (3) The social structure, the interconnectedness, and the societal position of nonconformist groups and milieus. The college places the study of religious non-conformism in an interdisciplinary and comparative context. The fields of research include Study of Religions, Sociology of Religion, African Studies, Old Testament / Ancient Near Eastern Studies, Arabic / Islamic Studies, History, Indology, Jewish Studies, Church History, Tibetology, East Asian Religions. We are looking for candidates from within and outside Germany with an above-average degree. Their dissertation project must deal with religious non-conformism in one of the fields named above. The languages of the college will be German and English. Candidates with insufficient German whose projects are chosen for the college can in addition obtain a scholarship for linguistic training. Applicants will normally be no older than 28. (But time spent rearing children, as well as national service etc. may be taken into account.) Those given a scholarship must undertake to live in Leipzig. The University of Leipzig aims to raise the proportion of women and therefore calls upon women to apply. Handicapped people with equal qualifications will be given preference. Applications (in German or English) should include: - a covering letter - a curriculum vitae and copies of certificates - a list of publications (if any) - a letter from an academic referee - a description of the research project, max. 10 pages, with time plan - a specimen of written work (e.g. Master's thesis). Please send these in electronic form (as pdf files) to: nonkonformismus at uni-leipzig.de Graduiertenkolleg ?Religi?ser Nonkonformismus und kulturelle Dynamik? Klostergasse 3 D-04109 Leipzig Further information: www.uni-leipzig.de/ral/nonkonformismus From rrocher at SAS.UPENN.EDU Sun Jun 27 22:09:17 2010 From: rrocher at SAS.UPENN.EDU (Rosane Rocher) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 10 18:09:17 -0400 Subject: old Swedish article + Danish paper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089825.23782.6809665244193702730.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1977 Lines: 54 Dear Stella and friends, Thank you, and best regards from us both. Thanks to the kindness and resourcefulness of Stefan Baums (in Japan), I was referred to a detailed description of Svea vol. 2 in the online catalog of the Carlskrona library. Palmblad's essay is titled "Om Hinduernes Fornhaefder." Some issues of Svea are available on google.books by scans from the New York Public Library, but the NYPL collection starts at vol. 4. Meanwhile, I am also searching for a paper of about 1820 by the Danish scholar and librarian Rasmus Nyerup (Erasmus Nyerup when he writes in Latin) about the early attempts of Europeans to study and teach Sanskrit. This, however, may have been an unpublished lecture. May I add this item to my shopping list? With appreciation to all, Rosane Rocher Stella Sandahl wrote: > Dear Rosane, > I don't have the article in question and I am, as you know, far away > from Sweden. However, of/when you get it I'll be happy to give you any > help you need with the Swedish language. > Best regards to both of you > Stella > > -- > Stella Sandahl > ssandahl at sympatico.ca > > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> *From: *Rosane Rocher > > >> *Date: *June 26, 2010 10:14:38 AM EDT (CA) >> *To: *INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> *Subject: **[INDOLOGY] old Swedish article* >> *Reply-To: *Rosane Rocher > > >> are >> Might a kind colleague in or about Sweden be able to verify the page >> numbers and provide the original title of an article the Uppsala >> professor Vilhelm Fredrick Palmblad published in /Svea:/ /Tidskrift >> foer Vetenskap och Konst/, vol. 2 (1819): pp. 1-168. The title, as >> transmitted in German, is "Abhandlungen ueber die Urkunden der >> Hindus." >> I would be most grateful. >> Rosane Rocher / / > From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Mon Jun 28 16:54:52 2010 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 10 09:54:52 -0700 Subject: earlier romanization conventions Message-ID: <161227089832.23782.11495140895852097295.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 967 Lines: 28 dear Colleagues, I've been reading the new English translation of Burnouf's 1844 Introduction to the History of Indian Buddhism. A number of oddities sent me back to the French, and I noticed something which I must have just not processed before. When Burnouf writes Skt in romanization (setting aside the obvious fact that the does not use the current system, which was only standardized later on), he often (though not always) separates elements of compounds, especially so in the names of texts and persons, but also in ordinary terms. I noticed this because sometimes the translators of the English, who in principle follow modern conventions, do not reconstruct the compounds properly. I don't *recall* having seen this elsewhere, but then I didn't recall it from when I read Burnouf in French either, so maybe I just never noticed it before. Any thoughts? jonathan -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From ute.huesken at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Mon Jun 28 08:35:20 2010 From: ute.huesken at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Ute Huesken) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 10 10:35:20 +0200 Subject: PhD position in Buddhist Studies in Oslo Message-ID: <161227089830.23782.8522909940193066190.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1074 Lines: 42 Dear colleagues, The Department of Culture Studies and Oriental Languages (IKOS) at the University of Oslo announces a PhD scholarship in Buddhist Studies. Please note that the deadline for applications is October 1st. 2010. See http://uio.easycruit.com/vacancy/405577/62042?iso=gb You will find the Norwegian web pages on the IKOS here: http://www.hf.uio.no/ikos/ and the English version(s) here: http://www.hf.uio.no/ikos/english/ Best regards Ute Huesken -- Ute Huesken Professor of Sanskrit Department of Culture Studies and Oriental Languages University of Oslo Faculty of Humanities P.O. Box 1010 Blindern N-0315 Oslo Norway Room 387, P.A. Munch's Building phone: +47 22 85 48 16 telefax: +47 22 85 48 28 ute.huesken at ikos.uio.no http://www.hf.uio.no/ikos/personer/vit/uteh/index.html Co-editor, Oxford Ritual Studies Series Co-chair, Ritual Studies Group, American Academy of Religion Head of the "Kanchipuram Research Project" http://www.hf.uio.no/ikos/english/research/projects/kancipuram/index.html Co-organizer of The Oslo Buddhist Studies Forum From baums at UW.EDU Mon Jun 28 06:10:01 2010 From: baums at UW.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 10 15:10:01 +0900 Subject: old Swedish article + Danish paper In-Reply-To: <4C27CC0D.3080500@sas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <161227089827.23782.10445952134977482661.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 522 Lines: 23 Dear Rosane, Rasmus Nyerup?s 1821 catalog of the Sanskrit books in the library of the University of Copenhagen has a preface in which he discusses the state of Sanskrit studies. The book is available for download and browsing from Google: http://books.google.com/books?id=OpsIAAAAQAAJ Maybe this builds on an earlier lecture or publication, but it does seem to contain at least some of the material that you are looking for. All best, Stefan -- Dr. Stefan Baums Graduate School of Literature Bukkyo University From rrocher at SAS.UPENN.EDU Tue Jun 29 12:41:43 2010 From: rrocher at SAS.UPENN.EDU (Rosane Rocher) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 10 08:41:43 -0400 Subject: thanks Message-ID: <161227089839.23782.14688963299420495341.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 282 Lines: 10 Many thanks to the several colleagues who responded to my query and provided additional information on and off list. I should be able to lay eyes on the 1819 Palmblad article and 1820 Nyerup article on my next visit to the British Library. Best wishes to all, Rosane Rocher From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Tue Jun 29 14:17:56 2010 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 10 10:17:56 -0400 Subject: Looking for an article by Richard Salomon Message-ID: <161227089841.23782.5435124103081276796.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 722 Lines: 13 Dear Colleagues, I am looking for Richard Salomon's 1998 article "Kharosthi manuscript fragments in the Pellior collection, Bibliotheque Nationale de France" which was published in vol 16 (pp. 123-60) of Bullitin d'etudes indiennes. I don't see any electronic access to this journal, and the Univ of Michigan library conveniently starts its collection of this journal from the year 1999. If anyone can provide me a digital or a print copy of this article, please write to me at: mmdesh at umich.edu. Thanks. Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Tue Jun 29 14:58:27 2010 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 10 10:58:27 -0400 Subject: Looking for an article by Richard Salomon In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D714AAF49E13@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227089846.23782.7859483623015018167.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1298 Lines: 27 Amazing wonders of INDOLOGY! I have already received a pdf of the article I was looking for. Thanks. Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Deshpande, Madhav [mmdesh at UMICH.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 10:17 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Looking for an article by Richard Salomon Dear Colleagues, I am looking for Richard Salomon's 1998 article "Kharosthi manuscript fragments in the Pellior collection, Bibliotheque Nationale de France" which was published in vol 16 (pp. 123-60) of Bullitin d'etudes indiennes. I don't see any electronic access to this journal, and the Univ of Michigan library conveniently starts its collection of this journal from the year 1999. If anyone can provide me a digital or a print copy of this article, please write to me at: mmdesh at umich.edu. Thanks. Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Tue Jun 29 06:55:58 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 10 12:25:58 +0530 Subject: Romanisation Message-ID: <161227089835.23782.4874269422992141686.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 870 Lines: 11 Dear All, The necessity for some strict conventions is often felt. The components should not be detached from one another but there is a convention of putting a hyphen and beginning the second member with a capital letter when two categories of ?signified? are placed one after another, e.g., individual and class, in, say, M?dhyandina-Sa?hit?, ?c?(or y?)r??ga-Sutta, K?lacakra-Tantra. The upper case in the second member is just a convention meant, perhaps, for clarity. But what about ?gveda that is RV in abridgement? Abhij??na?akuntalam is ok but Pravrajy?vastu? Hanumann??aka? ? It is not only names of books but proper names should be uniformly transliterated. All scholars, at least most of them, will cite ???????????? ???????????????? occurring in a verse as Vi?v?mitro Jamadagnir Vasi??ha?. But are the upper cases necessary? Any further thought? Best DB From McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Tue Jun 29 09:50:52 2010 From: McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 10 19:50:52 +1000 Subject: Hastinapura and Kurukshetra - Message-ID: <161227089837.23782.12853627199999746358.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 270 Lines: 14 Dear Colleagues How long has the town in UP been known as Hastinapura? What about Kurushetra in Haryana? Is there any documentary evidence to suggest that these names were applied to these locations in pre-modern times? Looking forward the hearing back McComas From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Tue Jun 29 14:21:58 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 10 19:51:58 +0530 Subject: Hastinapura and Kurukshetra - In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089843.23782.3231326335092908284.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2307 Lines: 39 ? Dear Dr Taylor, Thanks for raising the question which troubled me long. I found common men, farmers, porters, street side hawkers and everybody in these two places distinctly pronouncing kurukshetra and hastin?pur?. I shall give two evidences?that at least the name Hastin?pur? is not a modern convention. Hastinapura is referred to more in the Jaina literature than in the Pur??as. Just consult the Abhidh?nar?jendra under the same entry. Now this place was re-occupied in the 11th century (4th settlement); the settlement has yielded various Jaina icons. For this see Lal?s 1954-55 report in Ancient India 10-11. This makes it sure that the name of this very place persisted in Jaina tradition till at least the 13th century. There is no evidence to prove that the name was current among officers of the Delhi Sultanate ?in the 14th century. But it will not be reasonable to think that it disappeared subsequently. Culturally the higher officers at the Delhi Sultanate were almost alien. At least they knew little of Indian or local tradition. There is positive evidence for the continuity of the tradition; please see Asiatic Researches XIV under Wilford. I am speaking from some knowledge gathered in 2003. I have no notes at present with me except a monograph on Hastn?pur? (published 2004) prepared by me in the same year. But it does not deal with the question as raised by you. I wrote under good faith from the evidences mentioned? above that the name had persisted in local tradition. Since I do not have the said volume of the Asiatic Researches with me or in the University Library here, kindly let me know the result? If you cannot, kindly inform me I shall let you know sometime in the coming months or any other colleague may do that before me. Best wishes DB --- On Tue, 29/6/10, McComas Taylor wrote: From: McComas Taylor Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hastinapura and Kurukshetra - To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 29 June, 2010, 9:50 AM Dear Colleagues How long has the town in UP been known as Hastinapura? What about Kurushetra in Haryana? Is there any documentary evidence to suggest that these names were applied to these locations in pre-modern times? Looking forward the hearing back McComas From rdavidson at FAIRFIELD.EDU Mon Mar 1 12:40:33 2010 From: rdavidson at FAIRFIELD.EDU (Ronald Davidson) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 10 07:40:33 -0500 Subject: Wendy Doniger under attack again In-Reply-To: <40B29EC5-75FF-40B8-91E5-403DD45A4D5D@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227088736.23782.5217392973696245406.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2154 Lines: 56 If one examines the names of petitioners, it is clear that at least part of the impetus for this is drawn from the neo-Vedic crowd that operates under the WAVES umbrella: http://www.waves-india.com/index.html Conspicuous (#4 among the petition signers) is T.R. Narasimha Rao, who chaired the 13th WAVES conference in Dec. 2009 in New Delhi. He's a computer scientist at the Center for Advanced Computer Studies, University of Louisiana, Lafayette, and apparently an emblem of the activism of brahman NRI-s who have embraced their heritage through the lens of modern Hindutva, but with the added leverage of contemporary Indian fascination with American institutions. The document they published on Google.docs (http://tinyurl.com/yjs3vo3) is a classic statement of their position. Ronald Davidson Fairfield University > From: Michael Slouber > Reply-To: Indology > Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 11:48:06 +0100 > To: > Subject: Re: Wendy Doniger under attack again > > If you follow the links, they do have a list of examples: > . > > One problem for the petitioners is that they don't give references for their > claims, they just say "it is very well known" and "widely considered" and so > on. Their grievances may have merit, I don't know, but the way they are > presented won't be taken seriously. > > Michael Slouber > > > > On Mar 1, 2010, at 11:34 AM, Viktoria Lyssenko wrote: > >> The Penguin may propose to Mr.Vishal Agarval to support his accusations with >> examples, arguments and facts. Otherwise, it looks like purely emotional >> Hindutva rethorics. >> Victoria >>> Trouble at t'mill once again. >>> Vishal Agarwal has posted a message here: >>> http://www.southasiamail.com/news.php?id=58891 >>> asking people to sign a petition to Penguin demanding that they withdraw her >>> book*The Hindus: An Alternative History* from publication and that Penguin >>> apologize (to whom?) for publishing her book. >>> Best, >>> Dominik >>> >> >> ????? ????? ??? http://mail.yandex.ru/nospam/sign From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Mar 1 09:57:08 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 10 10:57:08 +0100 Subject: Wendy Doniger under attack again Message-ID: <161227088728.23782.12562813374663722410.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 338 Lines: 13 Trouble at t'mill once again. Vishal Agarwal has posted a message here: http://www.southasiamail.com/news.php?id=58891 asking people to sign a petition to Penguin demanding that they withdraw her book*The Hindus: An Alternative History* from publication and that Penguin apologize (to whom?) for publishing her book. Best, Dominik From mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU Mon Mar 1 10:48:06 2010 From: mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU (Michael Slouber) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 10 11:48:06 +0100 Subject: Wendy Doniger under attack again In-Reply-To: <254261267439698@webmail110.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <161227088734.23782.15382379144227851601.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1062 Lines: 26 If you follow the links, they do have a list of examples: . One problem for the petitioners is that they don't give references for their claims, they just say "it is very well known" and "widely considered" and so on. Their grievances may have merit, I don't know, but the way they are presented won't be taken seriously. Michael Slouber On Mar 1, 2010, at 11:34 AM, Viktoria Lyssenko wrote: > The Penguin may propose to Mr.Vishal Agarval to support his accusations with examples, arguments and facts. Otherwise, it looks like purely emotional Hindutva rethorics. > Victoria >> Trouble at t'mill once again. >> Vishal Agarwal has posted a message here: >> http://www.southasiamail.com/news.php?id=58891 >> asking people to sign a petition to Penguin demanding that they withdraw her >> book*The Hindus: An Alternative History* from publication and that Penguin >> apologize (to whom?) for publishing her book. >> Best, >> Dominik >> > > ????? ????? ??? http://mail.yandex.ru/nospam/sign From vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU Mon Mar 1 10:34:58 2010 From: vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU (Viktoria Lyssenko) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 10 13:34:58 +0300 Subject: Wendy Doniger under attack again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088731.23782.15350780099778392713.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 591 Lines: 16 The Penguin may propose to Mr.Vishal Agarval to support his accusations with examples, arguments and facts. Otherwise, it looks like purely emotional Hindutva rethorics. Victoria > Trouble at t'mill once again. > Vishal Agarwal has posted a message here: > http://www.southasiamail.com/news.php?id=58891 > asking people to sign a petition to Penguin demanding that they withdraw her > book*The Hindus: An Alternative History* from publication and that Penguin > apologize (to whom?) for publishing her book. > Best, > Dominik > ????? ????? ??? http://mail.yandex.ru/nospam/sign From mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU Mon Mar 1 14:56:20 2010 From: mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU (Michael Slouber) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 10 15:56:20 +0100 Subject: Wendy Doniger under attack again Message-ID: <161227088739.23782.3140708721623098549.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2385 Lines: 24 Begin forwarded message: > From: Vishal Agarwal > Date: March 1, 2010 3:52:40 PM GMT+01:00 > To: > Subject: Your message on criticism of Wendy Doniger's book > > Dear Dr. > > Your message (below my email to you) was forwarded by a list member to me. I think I have a right to put the record straight especially because I am not a member of this list and therefore cannot defend myself there. > > If some scholars do not even know the correct (or commonly accepted) dates of Kabir, Mirabai, Akbar's transfer of his capital to Lahore/Agra (and not Delhi!), Amir Khusro's Qasida mentioning Khalji's demlotion of temples at Devagiri, or that Gandhiji's commentary on the Gita was called Anasakti yoga (and not Asakti yoga) and so on, the shame is on them, not on me. As for references, I have created documents for different chapters where I have provided the relevant bibliographic references from standard published works. To say that pointing out these errors is an example Hindutva rhetorics reflects the bigtory and ignorance of Viktoria Lyssenko et al. I do not subscribe to Hindu Nationalism, but perhaps my critics subscribe to white supermacism. Perhaps the ignorance of these 'scholars' explains why so many errors slipped past Penguin's editors. Maybe these editors were of the same (in)competence as that of Viktoria! > > Finally, let me correct these unscholarly calumniators. I have NOT posted this news item (or sent any letter to) on the southasiamail website. I was not even aware of this website. In fact, this petition has not even been drafted by me (although I helped the author list a few errors - my own list is several 100 errors long - the book is really bad), nor was the email announcing it written by me (I just forwarded it to the lists when I received it myself). Someone has mischievously added my name at the end of this announcement and has sent it to South Asia Mail website as my letter! > > All of you would be advised to do some reading of basic sources of India history (or even pick up any geographical atlas!) to verify for themselves that Nagakot is not in E Nepal, nor is Kirthar range in Waziristan. It behoves you to send this message to your list to set the record straight. > > > Vishal Agarwal > > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now. From shyamr at YORKU.CA Tue Mar 2 01:03:38 2010 From: shyamr at YORKU.CA (Shyam Ranganathan) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 10 20:03:38 -0500 Subject: Bibliography of Indian Philosophy Message-ID: <161227088741.23782.6375201333223901426.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1219 Lines: 38 Dear List Members, Please excuse cross postings. I have been asked by Oxford University Press to compile an online bibliography of Indian Philosophy to be part of their Oxford Bibliogrpahy Online project. It is not supposed to be long: max 7500 words. It will include entries on: . Classical darsanas (including selected tranlsations), . Textbooks, . Anthologies, . Secondary works that focus on specific darsanas (Nyaya, Vaisesika, Jainism, Vedanta etc.,). If any one would like to make literature suggestions to me for any of these sections, please do so off list. I am very happy to hear from authors who would like me to include their work. If you are a self promoter, please do not feel shy. I cannot guarantee that I can include every suggestion sent to me, but I would be greatful for any and all suggestions. Also if you have any strong opinions about how such a bibliography should be organized, I would love to hear from you. I am particularly interested in finding out about new secondary material and anthologies. Best wishes, Shyam Dr. Shyam Ranganathan Department of Philosophy, York University, Toronto Indian Philosohy Editor, Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy http://shyam.org/ From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Tue Mar 2 07:29:44 2010 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 10 08:29:44 +0100 Subject: Bibliography of Indian Philosophy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088745.23782.3050564356454652845.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1493 Lines: 48 See already K. Potter's BIBLIOGRAPHY OF INDIAN PHILOSOPHIES at http://faculty.washington.edu/kpotter/xhome.htm http://faculty.washington.edu/kpotter/xack.htm >Dear List Members, > >Please excuse cross postings. I have been asked by Oxford University Press >to compile an online bibliography of Indian Philosophy to be part of their >Oxford Bibliogrpahy Online project. It is not supposed to be long: max 7500 >words. It will include entries on: > > >. Classical darsanas (including selected tranlsations), >. Textbooks, >. Anthologies, >. Secondary works that focus on specific darsanas (Nyaya, Vaisesika, >Jainism, Vedanta etc.,). > > >If any one would like to make literature suggestions to me for any of these >sections, please do so off list. I am very happy to hear from authors who >would like me to include their work. If you are a self promoter, please do >not feel shy. I cannot guarantee that I can include every suggestion sent to >me, but I would be greatful for any and all suggestions. Also if you have >any strong opinions about how such a bibliography should be organized, I >would love to hear from you. > >I am particularly interested in finding out about new secondary material and >anthologies. > >Best wishes, >Shyam > > >Dr. Shyam Ranganathan >Department of Philosophy, >York University, Toronto >Indian Philosohy Editor, Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy >http://shyam.org/ -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.lalibreblogs.be From mkmfolk at GMAIL.COM Tue Mar 2 05:12:52 2010 From: mkmfolk at GMAIL.COM (Mahendra Kumar Mishra) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 10 10:42:52 +0530 Subject: Bibliography of Indian Philosophy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088743.23782.1954293367988903839.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2367 Lines: 89 For Shyam Dear Mahendra Babu, Thanks for your e-mail regarding Bibliography on Indian Philosophy. I tried to contact Dr Syam. But the site did not respond. My Ph.D. Book is : ?PHILOSOPHICAL REFLECTIONS IN THE NAISADHACARITA?, By : Dr. HAREKRISHNA MEHER Published by : Punthi Pustak, 136 / 4B, Bidhan Sarani, Calcutta-4, First Edition 1989, ISBN: 81-85094-21-7. Please see the Link (site) and send it to him. Necessary matters can be collected from there. http://hkmeher.blogspot.com/2007/10/philosophical-reflections-in.html -- Dr. HAREKRISHNA MEHER Sr.Reader & Head, Department of Sanskrit, Government Autonomous College, BHAWANIPATNA - 766001, Orissa (India) Phone : +91-6670-231591 Mobile : +91-94373-62962 e-mail : meher.hk at gmail.com website : http://hkmeher.blogspot.com * * On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 6:33 AM, Shyam Ranganathan wrote: > Dear List Members, > > Please excuse cross postings. I have been asked by Oxford University Press > to compile an online bibliography of Indian Philosophy to be part of their > Oxford Bibliogrpahy Online project. It is not supposed to be long: max > 7500 > words. It will include entries on: > > > . Classical darsanas (including selected tranlsations), > . Textbooks, > . Anthologies, > . Secondary works that focus on specific darsanas (Nyaya, Vaisesika, > Jainism, Vedanta etc.,). > > > If any one would like to make literature suggestions to me for any of these > sections, please do so off list. I am very happy to hear from authors who > would like me to include their work. If you are a self promoter, please do > not feel shy. I cannot guarantee that I can include every suggestion sent > to > me, but I would be greatful for any and all suggestions. Also if you have > any strong opinions about how such a bibliography should be organized, I > would love to hear from you. > > I am particularly interested in finding out about new secondary material > and > anthologies. > > Best wishes, > Shyam > > > Dr. Shyam Ranganathan > Department of Philosophy, > York University, Toronto > Indian Philosohy Editor, Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy > http://shyam.org/ > -- Dr Mahendra Kumar Mishra State SC/ST and Minority Education Coordinator, Unit-V OPEPA Residential Address: D-9 Flat Kalpana Area Bhubaneswar 751014,India phone 91+674-2310167(r) 094376-36436(m) From r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG Tue Mar 2 23:19:33 2010 From: r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 10 12:19:33 +1300 Subject: RESOURCE> SARIT Update: Wedemeyer's Caryamelapakapradipa now available (Mahoney) Message-ID: <161227088747.23782.553167622828627899.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1052 Lines: 52 Dear Colleagues, Christian Wedemeyer's, _?ryadeva's Lamp that Integrates the Practices (Cary?mel?pakaprad?pa): The Gradual Path of Vajray?na Buddhism According to the Esoteric Community Noble Tradition - Part Three: Critically Edited Sanskrit Text of ?ryadeva's Cary?mel?pakaprad?pa_ is now available through SARIT. The SARIT version also includes Christian's English, Sanskrit and Tibetan glossaries. The table of contents is here: http://bit.ly/9ls75y The glossaries are here: http://bit.ly/99qxoK Bibliographic notes can be found here: http://bit.ly/98mJ4H I'd like to thank Christian, Tom Yarnall, Robert Thurman and Columbia for backing the encoding and distribution of this text. If any authors, editors or publishers would like to support the encoding of additional texts please feel free to approach us. Best regards, Richard Mahoney -- Richard MAHONEY Littledene, Bay Road, OXFORD 7430, NZ PO Box 25, OXFORD 7443 +64 3 312 1699 / +64 275 829 986 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org http://indica-et-buddhica.org From shyamr at YORKU.CA Wed Mar 3 20:48:33 2010 From: shyamr at YORKU.CA (Shyam Ranganathan) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 10 15:48:33 -0500 Subject: Indian Philosophy Bibliography: Clarification-Indic Language Resources Message-ID: <161227088750.23782.15173517133315215288.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1297 Lines: 65 Dear Colleagues, Please excuse cross postings. I sent out an email recently to colleagues about an entry on Indian Philosophy I've been asked to contribute to OUP 's online bibliography project. I asked for some suggestions. I wanted to clear up two matters. First, while I asked for suggestions regarding secondary material and translations, I never suggested that Indic Language sources were not going to be included. If any colleagues have strong views on editions of classical works, I would be more than happy to hear about them. Second, OUP has clarified that 7500 words is a suggestion, not a hard and fast limitation on the entry. I am pleased to hear this, but I don't expect to be producing anything as comprehensive as K Potter's great resource: that would defeat the purpose of something smaller and more selective. The entry is supposed to be relevant to students and scholars alike. The aim is to represent the literature that is essential for an understanding of the topic. Any and all suggestions are welcome off list: shyamr at yorku.ca Best wishes, Shyam Dr. Shyam Ranganathan Department of Philosophy, York University, Toronto Indian Philosohy Editor, Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy http://shyam.org/ From h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX Thu Mar 4 03:09:04 2010 From: h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX (Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 10 19:09:04 -0800 Subject: Quest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088752.23782.7867209944976991907.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1980 Lines: 65 Dear Sirs and Madams: Regards. I am looking the e-mail of Chicago University Religion Professor Wendy Doniger. Thanks very much. With my best wishes. Lic. M.A. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad Internacional Euroamericana. Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada. Miembro del Instituto de Estudios Filos?ficos de Saltillo A. C. www.uie.edu.es --- El mar 2-mar-10, Shyam Ranganathan escribi?: De:: Shyam Ranganathan Asunto: Bibliography of Indian Philosophy A: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Fecha: martes, 2 de marzo de 2010, 1:03 Dear List Members, Please excuse cross postings. I have been asked by Oxford University Press to compile an online bibliography of Indian Philosophy to be part of their Oxford Bibliogrpahy Online project.? It is not supposed to be long: max 7500 words.? It will include entries on: . Classical darsanas (including selected tranlsations), . Textbooks, . Anthologies, . Secondary works that focus on specific darsanas (Nyaya, Vaisesika, Jainism, Vedanta etc.,). If any one would like to make literature suggestions to me for any of these sections, please do so off list. I am very happy to hear from authors who would like me to include their work. If you are a self promoter, please do not feel shy. I cannot guarantee that I can include every suggestion sent to me, but I would be greatful for any and all suggestions. Also if you have any strong opinions about how such a bibliography should be organized, I would love to hear from you. I am particularly interested in finding out about new secondary material and anthologies. Best wishes, Shyam Dr. Shyam Ranganathan Department of Philosophy, York University, Toronto Indian Philosohy Editor, Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy http://shyam.org/ ?Obt?n la mejor experiencia en la web! Descarga gratis el nuevo Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/ieak8/?l=mx From conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Fri Mar 5 00:13:44 2010 From: conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Frank Conlon) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 10 16:13:44 -0800 Subject: H-ASIA: CFP Tuvan Written Language, Research questions of Writing systems & Written Monuments of Inner Asia, Kyzyl, Tuva Republic, Russia, July 1-4, 2010 Message-ID: <161227088757.23782.7014261071085300732.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3623 Lines: 97 H-ASIA March 4, 2010 Call for papers: The Tuvan Written Language, Research Questions of Writing Systems, and Written Monuments of Inner Asia, conference at Kyzyl, Tuva Republic, Russia, July 1-4, 2010 DEADLINE MARCH 16, 2010 *********************************************************************** From: H-Net Announcements The Tuvan Written Language, Research Questions of Writing Systems, and Written Monuments of Inner Asia Location: Russia Call for Papers Date: 2010-03-16 (in 12 days) Date Submitted: 2010-03-03 Announcement ID: 174544 Call for Papers The Tuvan Institute of Humanitarian Research welcomes proposals for its 2010 conference The Tuvan Written Language, Research Questions of Writing Systems, and Written Monuments of Inner Asia Tuvan Institute of Humanitarian Research, Kyzyl, Tuva Republic, Russia July 1-4, 2010 Proposals due 16 March, 2010 The conference will be held July 14, 2010, at The Tuvan Institute of Humanitarian Research in Kyzyl, Tuva Republic, Russia. Full details will be available in Russian language at the Web site of Kyzyl, Tuva Republic, Russia http://tigi.tuva.ru We invite proposals for papers that consider such questions as the following: This conference will explore the written languages of Russia and Inner Asia. The focus will be both historical, examining the way in which methods and tecniques are consciously continued, and contemporary, looking at how written languages are learned now, in an era of globalization in which new ways coexist with tradition. A particular attention will be paid to folklore and literature of peoples of Siberia and Inner Asia: genesis, typology, tradition, and innovation. Monuments of writing systems as historical, archeological, and ethnographical resources. Alphabet: history, genesis, and temporary conditions. Tuvan written language and its role in the development of the language, education, and Tuvan culture. Questions of sociolinguistics, museum studies, and other interdisciplinary/ The conference will create intellectually coherent panels and discussion groups so that scholars from different fields can engage productively around a central theme or question. Submission Electronic submissions will be accepted. Send e-mailed proposals as attachments in Word to igi at tuva.ru Mariana Kharunova Tuvan Institute of Humanitarian Research 4 Kochetova Street,Kyzyl, Tuva Republic, Russia Phone/fax: 7(39422)239-36 Email: igi at tuva.ru Visit the website at http://tigi.tuva.ru H-Net reproduces announcements that have been submitted to us as a free service to the academic community. If you are interested in an announcement listed here, please contact the organizers or patrons directly. Though we strive to provide accurate information, H-Net cannot accept responsibility for the text of announcements appearing in this service. Send comments & questions to H-Net Webstaff at URL H-Net Humanities & Social Sciences Online Hosted by Matrix at Michigan State University Copyright (c) 1995-2010 ************************************************************************ To post to H-ASIA simply send your message to: For holidays or short absences send post to: with message: SET H-ASIA NOMAIL Upon return, send post with message SET H-ASIA MAIL H-ASIA WEB HOMEPAGE URL: http://h-net.msu.edu/~asia/ From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 4 15:50:32 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 10 16:50:32 +0100 Subject: Fwd: Identification of Vidyasagara's writing on poetics In-Reply-To: <227755.86979.qm@web53005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088755.23782.9013480421930078399.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1852 Lines: 47 Please make sure to CC your responses to the author, Gyurme Dorje < gyurme_d at yahoo.com>. Thanks, DW ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: gyurme dorje Date: 4 February 2010 12:39 Subject: Identification of Vidyasagara's writing on poetics To: wujastyk at gmail.com [...] I'm writing on the off-chance that you might be able to help me identify a particular Indian author on Sanskrit poetics. Over the last two years or so I have been working on the translation of a section from a 19th century Tibetan encyclopaedia, which outlines the Tibetan understanding of the so-called ten classical sciences (grammar, logic, fine and applied art, medicine, astrology, poetics, prosody, lexicography, dramaturgy, Buddhist abhidharma). In the section on poetics the author cits one "pa.n.dita rig byed rgya mtsho", which translates back into Sanskrit as Pa.n.dita Vedaar.nava or Vidyaasaagara. The latter name appears in Karl Potter's listing (no. 805), as a 14th century figure, and I'm trying to track down references to his works to see if he indeed wrote on poetics. Potter cites one potentially useful source: V. Raghavan, "Date and works of Anandapurna Vidyasagara", Journal of Oriental Research, Madras, 4.1, 1939-40, 1-5. I'm wondering if you might have access to that article and whether it does indeed refer to any work on poetics. The passage cited in the Tibetan text reads: "The defining characteristic of narrative is that knowledge is expressed in the poetic medium of prose that is not deduced from historical legends (itih?sakath?, sngon byung gi gtam rgyud), whereas the defining characteristic of legend is that it is expressed in the poetic medium of prose that largely commences with ancient tales". Any light you can shed on this identification would be most welcome! best regards Gyurme Dorje From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Fri Mar 5 17:38:09 2010 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 10 11:38:09 -0600 Subject: Source Message-ID: <161227088760.23782.827997629319511152.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 220 Lines: 12 Could any one let me know the source of this verse? I should know it, but senility has set in!! Rtumatiim yo bhaaryaam sannidhau nopagacchati tasysaaH muutrapuriiSe SaNmaasaan pitaras tasya zerate Thanks. Patrick From rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU Fri Mar 5 20:42:31 2010 From: rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU (Alexander von Rospatt) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 10 12:42:31 -0800 Subject: Update: Berkeley Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts Message-ID: <161227088765.23782.5061344131494347098.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4001 Lines: 40 Dear Colleagues, there are still a few free places on the 2010 Berkeley Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts. I would be grateful if you could remind potentially interested students of this special opportunity. The announcement can now also be found online at http://mangalamresearch.org/summer.htm. With many thanks (and apologies for cross-listing with H-Buddhism), Alexander von Rospatt ------------ Mangalam Research Center for Buddhist Languages Center for Buddhist Studies, University of California Ho Center for Buddhist Studies, Stanford University Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts Berkeley, CA, USA. June 14-July 2, 2010 Core Faculty: Luis Gomez, Michael Hahn Associate Faculty: Paul Harrison, Alexander von Rospatt, Carmen Dragonetti, Fernando Tola Putting the Dharma into the words of a new culture is a task that has traditionally unfolded over several generations. In the West, where the languages of educated discourse are sophisticated and rich with layers of meaning, the challenges of being able to convey the Buddhist teachings as faithfully as possible are especially daunting. This intensive three-week program, intended primarily for graduate students in Buddhism, Indology, or allied fields, is a small step toward a clear and consistent terminology or (more modestly) developing skills and strategies for finding the best translation equivalents in contemporary English. The text for the program is the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra. We will read the Sanskrit together with the Tibetan and Chinese translations. This close reading will address problems of interpretation, as well as the technical and stylistic challenges faced by the translator of classical Buddhist texts. Students should have facility in Sanskrit; knowledge of Tibetan or Chinese will be helpful. Format and Facilities?Guided by distinguished faculty, students will meet 5 hours a day, five days a week to work with the challenges posed by the text. Sessions will be held from 9:30 am ? 12:30 pm and 3:30 pm ? 5:30 pm. Meals are provided, and housing is an easy walk. Students will have access to the libraries of the Mangalam Research Center and the University of California at Berkeley (a 10-minute walk). Rapid Transit to San Francisco is half-a-block away. Focus?The focus will be on key terms of the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra in the context of the profound Mahayana vision it sets forth. We will examine vocabulary choices in both source and target languages, sensitive to subtle shifts in meaning between languages with different philosophical underpinnings. Among the topics to be explored and skills to be honed: ? Sanskrit roots, etymology, and the relation of Buddhist Sanskrit to other forms of Sanskrit ? Issues of context and intertexuality. ? comparison with the Tibetan and Chinese, with reference to commentaries. ? stylistic choices and terminology in existing translations in both canonical and modern languages ? general issues in the theory and practice of translation as they arise in rendering a classic Buddh ist text into a modern idiom. Costs: Tuition: $1,200 (includes lunch daily). Food and lodging: $1,350. Total cost: $2,550. Applications?The program is intended for advanced graduate students, but applications from all qualified candidates will be considered. Please submit an application by March 15, 2010 to summerprograms at mangalamresearch.org. Include a short statement of purpose, a description of language skills and how acquired, and a 1?2 paragraph letter of endorsement from your principal adviser. Students completing the program will receive a formal letter from the Buddhist Studies program of the University of California, Berkeley, certifying that the course corresponds to a semester long graduate seminar of fifteen weeks with five hours of instruction per week." Maximum number of participants is 15. Applicants will be notified by April 10, 2010. From axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE Fri Mar 5 17:47:03 2010 From: axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE (Axel Michaels) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 10 17:47:03 +0000 Subject: AW: Source In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088762.23782.12890405303034313999.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 463 Lines: 26 ___________________________ BaudhDhS 4.1.17? Best, Axel ________________________________ Von: Patrick Olivelle An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Gesendet: Freitag, den 5. M?rz 2010, 18:38:09 Uhr Betreff: Source Could any one let me know the source of this verse? I should know it, but senility has set in!! Rtumatiim yo bhaaryaam sannidhau nopagacchati tasysaaH muutrapuriiSe SaNmaasaan pitaras tasya zerate Thanks. Patrick From h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX Sun Mar 7 00:43:45 2010 From: h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX (Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez) Date: Sat, 06 Mar 10 16:43:45 -0800 Subject: Nara-Narayana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088770.23782.6075454809273359439.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1423 Lines: 46 Dear Doctor Andrew J. Nicholson. There is a very nice book for you quest called Vaisnavism. Philosophy? and its Teology by Dr. Srinivasa Chari. Montilal editors. Also the Narada Bhaktisutra and Narada pancharatra, Brahma-samhita from Bhativedanta book truths. You can found may books like that in Krishna Culture shop House in Houston: Krishnaculture.com With my best Wishes. Lic. M.A. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad Internacional Euroamericana. Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada. Miembro del Instituto de Estudios Filos?ficos de Saltillo A. C. www.uie.edu.es --- El s?b 6-mar-10, Andrew Nicholson escribi?: De:: Andrew Nicholson Asunto: Nara-Narayana A: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Fecha: s?bado, 6 de marzo de 2010, 23:12 Dear Colleagues, Can anyone recommend good books or articles on the theology and mythology of Nara-Narayana?? I am especially interested in the way they were understood in Pancaratra texts. Many thanks! Andrew ______________________________________________ Andrew J. Nicholson Assistant Professor Department of Asian and Asian American Studies Stony Brook University Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343 USA Tel: (631) 632-4030? Fax: (631) 632-4098 Encuentra las mejores recetas en Yahoo! Cocina. http://mx.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/ From andrew.nicholson at STONYBROOK.EDU Sat Mar 6 23:12:11 2010 From: andrew.nicholson at STONYBROOK.EDU (Andrew Nicholson) Date: Sat, 06 Mar 10 18:12:11 -0500 Subject: Nara-Narayana Message-ID: <161227088768.23782.15005359357492793865.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 445 Lines: 19 Dear Colleagues, Can anyone recommend good books or articles on the theology and mythology of Nara-Narayana? I am especially interested in the way they were understood in Pancaratra texts. Many thanks! Andrew ______________________________________________ Andrew J. Nicholson Assistant Professor Department of Asian and Asian American Studies Stony Brook University Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343 USA Tel: (631) 632-4030 Fax: (631) 632-4098 From fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM Sun Mar 7 04:41:54 2010 From: fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM (Benjamin Fleming) Date: Sat, 06 Mar 10 23:41:54 -0500 Subject: The Sivapadas of Ancient Cambodia Message-ID: <161227088773.23782.5396335767036029731.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1066 Lines: 24 Dear List, I am interested to know if there are any plans to publish the proceedings from this conference from 2008 by the European Association of Southeast Asian Archaeologists: The Sivapadas of Cambodia I-III http://www.iias.nl/euraseaa12/?q=the-sivapadas-of-ancient-cambodia-ihttp://www.iias.nl/euraseaa12/?q=the-sivapadas-of-ancient-cambodia-iihttp://www.iias.nl/euraseaa12/?q=the-sivapadas-of-ancient-cambodia-iii Or have any of the individual papers been published separately? Perhaps there are some list members who presented at the conference who might wish to comment on or off-list? Thanks much for your assistance. Best Wishes, Benjamin -- Dr. Benjamin Fleming,Visiting Scholar, Dept. of Religious Studies, University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street, Claudia Cohen Hall, #234 Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A. Telephone - 215-746-7792 http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~bfleming _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/ From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Sun Mar 7 16:52:44 2010 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 10 11:52:44 -0500 Subject: Nara-Narayana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088784.23782.2499201191757964889.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1372 Lines: 58 There is a long and very detailed paper on the development, starting with Vedic sources, of Narayana by the lamented, early-departed Hertha Krick: Narayana und Opfertod, Wiener Zeitschrift zur Kunde S?dasiens, vol. 21, 1977, 71-142 See further this google page: Cheers, M.W. On Mar 6, 2010, at 6:12 PM, Andrew Nicholson wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > Can anyone recommend good books or articles on the theology and > mythology > of Nara-Narayana? I am especially interested in the way they were > understood in Pancaratra texts. > > Many thanks! > > Andrew > ______________________________________________ > Andrew J. Nicholson > Assistant Professor > Department of Asian and Asian American Studies > Stony Brook University > Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343 USA > Tel: (631) 632-4030 Fax: (631) 632-4098 ============ Michael Witzel witzel at fas.harvard.edu Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University 1 Bow Street, Cambridge MA 02138, USA phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; my direct line: 617- 496 2990 From mnstorm at MAC.COM Sun Mar 7 07:00:33 2010 From: mnstorm at MAC.COM (Mary Storm) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 10 12:30:33 +0530 Subject: Nara-Narayana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088776.23782.9068572155394874358.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1025 Lines: 48 Greetings Andrew, You might want to look at the Nara-Narayana relief on the East wall of the Deogarh Visnu shrine. Gupta, early 6th c. Might be an interesting look at the mythology. cheers, mary Mary N. Storm, Ph.D. Academic Director and Lecturer India: National Identity and the Arts and Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture SIT Study Abroad www.sit.edu F 301 Lado Sarai New Delhi 110030 Mobile +91 98106 98003 Office Landline +91 11 2437 8003 Residence Landline +91 11295 53298 On 07-Mar-10, at 4:42 AM, Andrew Nicholson wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > Can anyone recommend good books or articles on the theology and > mythology > of Nara-Narayana? I am especially interested in the way they were > understood in Pancaratra texts. > > Many thanks! > > Andrew > ______________________________________________ > Andrew J. Nicholson > Assistant Professor > Department of Asian and Asian American Studies > Stony Brook University > Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343 USA > Tel: (631) 632-4030 Fax: (631) 632-4098 From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Sun Mar 7 15:55:19 2010 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 10 15:55:19 +0000 Subject: The Sivapadas of Ancient Cambodia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088779.23782.10041821413695416542.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2081 Lines: 39 There are no plans to publish the proceedings. The most significant parts of my own contribution on the terminology of maps and map-making in ancient Cambodia are included in a joint article on the 11 century stela inscription K. 1238 written with D. Soutif that, inshallah, should come out in BEFEO before too long. I am not aware of any of the other papers beings in print. The project Corpus des inscriptions khm?res intends to bring out a volume on the epigraphy of the western and eastern "Sivapaada temples in a still rather hazy future. Sincerely, Arlo GriffithsEFEO/Jakarta ---------------------------------------- > Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 23:41:54 -0500 > From: fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM > Subject: The Sivapadas of Ancient Cambodia > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Dear List, > I am interested to know if there are any plans to publish the proceedings from this conference from 2008 by the European Association of Southeast Asian Archaeologists: > The Sivapadas of Cambodia I-III > http://www.iias.nl/euraseaa12/?q=the-sivapadas-of-ancient-cambodia-ihttp://www.iias.nl/euraseaa12/?q=the-sivapadas-of-ancient-cambodia-iihttp://www.iias.nl/euraseaa12/?q=the-sivapadas-of-ancient-cambodia-iii > Or have any of the individual papers been published separately? Perhaps there are some list members who presented at the conference who might wish to comment on or off-list? > Thanks much for your assistance. > Best Wishes, > Benjamin > -- > > Dr. Benjamin Fleming,Visiting Scholar, Dept. of Religious Studies, > University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street, > Claudia Cohen Hall, #234 > Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A. > Telephone - 215-746-7792 > http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~bfleming > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/ _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Sun Mar 7 16:00:01 2010 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 10 16:00:01 +0000 Subject: correction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088781.23782.728584906728649299.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2723 Lines: 52 correction: there certainly are plans, already in an advanced state of realization, to publish the proceedings from the conference, but these proceedings will not contain most or any of the papers from the panel in question. Arlo Griffiths ---------------------------------------- > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 15:55:19 +0000 > From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM > Subject: Re: The Sivapadas of Ancient Cambodia > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > There are no plans to publish the proceedings. The most significant parts of my own contribution on the terminology of maps and map-making in ancient Cambodia are included in a joint article on the 11 century stela inscription K. 1238 written with D. Soutif that, inshallah, should come out in BEFEO before too long. I am not aware of any of the other papers beings in print. > The project Corpus des inscriptions khm?res intends to bring out a volume on the epigraphy of the western and eastern "Sivapaada temples in a still rather hazy future. > Sincerely, > Arlo GriffithsEFEO/Jakarta > > ---------------------------------------- >> Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 23:41:54 -0500 >> From: fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM >> Subject: The Sivapadas of Ancient Cambodia >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> >> Dear List, >> I am interested to know if there are any plans to publish the proceedings from this conference from 2008 by the European Association of Southeast Asian Archaeologists: >> The Sivapadas of Cambodia I-III >> http://www.iias.nl/euraseaa12/?q=the-sivapadas-of-ancient-cambodia-ihttp://www.iias.nl/euraseaa12/?q=the-sivapadas-of-ancient-cambodia-iihttp://www.iias.nl/euraseaa12/?q=the-sivapadas-of-ancient-cambodia-iii >> Or have any of the individual papers been published separately? Perhaps there are some list members who presented at the conference who might wish to comment on or off-list? >> Thanks much for your assistance. >> Best Wishes, >> Benjamin >> -- >> >> Dr. Benjamin Fleming,Visiting Scholar, Dept. of Religious Studies, >> University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street, >> Claudia Cohen Hall, #234 >> Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A. >> Telephone - 215-746-7792 >> http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~bfleming >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. >> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/ > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ _________________________________________________________________ New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more. http://windows.microsoft.com/shop From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Sun Mar 7 17:15:51 2010 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 10 18:15:51 +0100 Subject: Nara-Narayana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088786.23782.17406220233069852381.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 677 Lines: 29 By the late Madeleine Biardeau, "Nara et Naaraaya.na", Wiener Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde S?dasiens, vol. 35, 1991, pp. 75-108 >Dear Colleagues, > >Can anyone recommend good books or articles on the theology and mythology >of Nara-Narayana? I am especially interested in the way they were >understood in Pancaratra texts. > >Many thanks! > >Andrew >______________________________________________ >Andrew J. Nicholson >Assistant Professor >Department of Asian and Asian American Studies >Stony Brook University >Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343 USA >Tel: (631) 632-4030 Fax: (631) 632-4098 -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.lalibreblogs.be From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA Sun Mar 7 23:40:18 2010 From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 10 18:40:18 -0500 Subject: E-mail address needed Message-ID: <161227088788.23782.2189547878628450604.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 232 Lines: 12 Dear colleagues, Does anyone have the e-mail address, snail-mail address or telephone number to Professor John E. Cort? Please reply directly to ssandahl at sympatico.ca Many thanks! -- Stella Sandahl ssandahl at sympatico.ca From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Mar 8 13:39:23 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 07:39:23 -0600 Subject: upodghata In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088794.23782.13700336285053301915.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 361 Lines: 14 I am not sure that precisely the same verse will be found there, but the first text that comes to mind that surely includes some close parallels is the Vyaakhyaayuktixaastra of Vasubandhu. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Mar 8 14:51:46 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 08:51:46 -0600 Subject: "Saisha" as the name of a goddess? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088801.23782.5025817306481230710.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 265 Lines: 12 This reminds me vaguely of the Paazupata explanation of Soma as a name of Ziva as sa + Umaa. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Mon Mar 8 17:26:04 2010 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 09:26:04 -0800 Subject: upodghata In-Reply-To: <26942_1268045749_1268045749_B924D027-C5F1-43CC-9DEE-AE40B1926CCA@t-online.de> Message-ID: <161227088815.23782.5308425549078273370.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 914 Lines: 25 On 10-03-08 2:55 AM, "petra kieffer-P?lz" wrote: > upoggh?to pada? c' eva padattho padaviggaho > codan? pratyavajj?na? by?khy? tantassa chabbiddh? The verse seems to express a composite coceptualization suitable to the needs of a specific work or genre. The following verses have its ideas but not exactly the same configuration: pada-ccheda.h padaarthoktir vigraho vaakya-yojanaa / aak.sepe.su samaadhaana.m vyaakhyaana.m pa;nca-lak.sa.nam // Variant for the second half noted in Nyaaya-ko;sa p. 828: aak.sepo 'tha samaadhaana.m vyaakhyaana.m .sa.d-vidha.m matam //. The same source attributes the verse to Paraa;sara Puraa.na adhyaaya 18, but I am sure that it occurs in other works, especially scholastic works. upakramopasa.mhaaraav abhyaaso 'puurvataa phalam artha-vaadopapattii ca hetus taatparya-nir.naye // quoted in several Miimaa.msaa and Vedaanta works. ashok aklujkar From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Mon Mar 8 04:03:49 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 09:33:49 +0530 Subject: Nara-Narayana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088790.23782.7088510492667948329.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1229 Lines: 36 I do not know if the following information will be of any help. I vaguely remember that long ago it was either Hertha Krick or Bettina B?umer of whom an off-print of a study on the N?r?ya?abal?-Upani?ad was presented to me. Both were at Vienna then. It had something. But I cannot find it out now. The Vedic Bibliography did not help. My apologies if the paper is the same as the ?N?r?ya?a und Opfertod?.? Best for all DB --- On Sun, 7/3/10, Andrew Nicholson wrote: From: Andrew Nicholson Subject: Nara-Narayana To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Sunday, 7 March, 2010, 4:42 AM Dear Colleagues, Can anyone recommend good books or articles on the theology and mythology of Nara-Narayana?? I am especially interested in the way they were understood in Pancaratra texts. Many thanks! Andrew ______________________________________________ Andrew J. Nicholson Assistant Professor Department of Asian and Asian American Studies Stony Brook University Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343 USA Tel: (631) 632-4030? Fax: (631) 632-4098 Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Mon Mar 8 14:39:11 2010 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 09:39:11 -0500 Subject: "Saisha" as the name of a goddess? Message-ID: <161227088797.23782.15511545390995328995.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5246 Lines: 58 Dear Indologists, Recently I met a Brahmin family from Karnataka who have a newborn daughter named "Saisha". They asked me what the word means. I could not think of a Sanskrit word close to "Saisha." Then the grandfather said that this is a name of goddess Lakshmi used in a Sanskrit stotra popular among followers of Ramanuja. The line from the stotra he recited was: sai?? dev? sakala-bhuvana-pr?rthan?-k?madhenu?. It was immediately apparent to me that the "Saisha" was simply s? e??, and not a name of the goddess, but I was not able to convince the grandfather of the child, who fervently argued that "Saisha" was an authentic name of the goddess. I wonder if others have come across similar examples. Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Alexander von Rospatt [rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 3:42 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Update: Berkeley Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts Dear Colleagues, there are still a few free places on the 2010 Berkeley Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts. I would be grateful if you could remind potentially interested students of this special opportunity. The announcement can now also be found online at http://mangalamresearch.org/summer.htm. With many thanks (and apologies for cross-listing with H-Buddhism), Alexander von Rospatt ------------ Mangalam Research Center for Buddhist Languages Center for Buddhist Studies, University of California Ho Center for Buddhist Studies, Stanford University Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts Berkeley, CA, USA. June 14-July 2, 2010 Core Faculty: Luis Gomez, Michael Hahn Associate Faculty: Paul Harrison, Alexander von Rospatt, Carmen Dragonetti, Fernando Tola Putting the Dharma into the words of a new culture is a task that has traditionally unfolded over several generations. In the West, where the languages of educated discourse are sophisticated and rich with layers of meaning, the challenges of being able to convey the Buddhist teachings as faithfully as possible are especially daunting. This intensive three-week program, intended primarily for graduate students in Buddhism, Indology, or allied fields, is a small step toward a clear and consistent terminology or (more modestly) developing skills and strategies for finding the best translation equivalents in contemporary English. The text for the program is the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra. We will read the Sanskrit together with the Tibetan and Chinese translations. This close reading will address problems of interpretation, as well as the technical and stylistic challenges faced by the translator of classical Buddhist texts. Students should have facility in Sanskrit; knowledge of Tibetan or Chinese will be helpful. Format and Facilities?Guided by distinguished faculty, students will meet 5 hours a day, five days a week to work with the challenges posed by the text. Sessions will be held from 9:30 am ? 12:30 pm and 3:30 pm ? 5:30 pm. Meals are provided, and housing is an easy walk. Students will have access to the libraries of the Mangalam Research Center and the University of California at Berkeley (a 10-minute walk). Rapid Transit to San Francisco is half-a-block away. Focus?The focus will be on key terms of the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra in the context of the profound Mahayana vision it sets forth. We will examine vocabulary choices in both source and target languages, sensitive to subtle shifts in meaning between languages with different philosophical underpinnings. Among the topics to be explored and skills to be honed: ? Sanskrit roots, etymology, and the relation of Buddhist Sanskrit to other forms of Sanskrit ? Issues of context and intertexuality. ? comparison with the Tibetan and Chinese, with reference to commentaries. ? stylistic choices and terminology in existing translations in both canonical and modern languages ? general issues in the theory and practice of translation as they arise in rendering a classic Buddh ist text into a modern idiom. Costs: Tuition: $1,200 (includes lunch daily). Food and lodging: $1,350. Total cost: $2,550. Applications?The program is intended for advanced graduate students, but applications from all qualified candidates will be considered. Please submit an application by March 15, 2010 to summerprograms at mangalamresearch.org. Include a short statement of purpose, a description of language skills and how acquired, and a 1?2 paragraph letter of endorsement from your principal adviser. Students completing the program will receive a formal letter from the Buddhist Studies program of the University of California, Berkeley, certifying that the course corresponds to a semester long graduate seminar of fifteen weeks with five hours of instruction per week." Maximum number of participants is 15. Applicants will be notified by April 10, 2010. From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Mon Mar 8 14:47:35 2010 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 09:47:35 -0500 Subject: "Saisha" as the name of a goddess? In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D704D4B4E4C0@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227088799.23782.3604005622988787452.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6237 Lines: 146 What about zacii-pati (?ac?-pati) "lord of strength" (= Indra), a dozen times in the RV, but then understood as "husband of ?ac?", whence Indra's wife got her name ?ac?. Which will remind some of us of the unforgettable lecture of Alex Wayman at the AOS, some 10 years ago... Homeric names! Cheers, Michael On Mar 8, 2010, at 9:39 AM, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: > Dear Indologists, > > Recently I met a Brahmin family from Karnataka who have a newborn > daughter named "Saisha". They asked me what the word means. I > could not think of a Sanskrit word close to "Saisha." Then the > grandfather said that this is a name of goddess Lakshmi used in a > Sanskrit stotra popular among followers of Ramanuja. The line from > the stotra he recited was: sai?? dev? sakala-bhuvana- > pr?rthan?-k?madhenu?. It was immediately apparent to me that > the "Saisha" was simply s? e??, and not a name of the goddess, > but I was not able to convince the grandfather of the child, who > fervently argued that "Saisha" was an authentic name of the > goddess. I wonder if others have come across similar examples. > > Madhav > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA > ________________________________________ > From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Alexander > von Rospatt [rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU] > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 3:42 PM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Update: Berkeley Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a > Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts > > Dear Colleagues, > > there are still a few free places on the 2010 Berkeley Summer > Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist > Texts. > > I would be grateful if you could remind potentially interested > students of this special opportunity. The announcement can now also > be found online at http://mangalamresearch.org/summer.htm. > > With many thanks (and apologies for cross-listing with H-Buddhism), > > > Alexander von Rospatt > > ------------ > > Mangalam Research Center for Buddhist Languages > Center for Buddhist Studies, University of California > Ho Center for Buddhist Studies, Stanford University > > Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for > Buddhist Texts > Berkeley, CA, USA. June 14-July 2, 2010 > Core Faculty: Luis Gomez, Michael Hahn > Associate Faculty: Paul Harrison, Alexander von Rospatt, Carmen > Dragonetti, Fernando Tola > > Putting the Dharma into the words of a new culture is a task that > has traditionally unfolded over several generations. In the West, > where the languages of educated discourse are sophisticated and > rich with layers of meaning, the challenges of being able to convey > the Buddhist teachings as faithfully as possible are especially > daunting. > This intensive three-week program, intended primarily for graduate > students in Buddhism, Indology, or allied fields, is a small step > toward a clear and consistent terminology or (more modestly) > developing skills and strategies for finding the best translation > equivalents in contemporary English. > The text for the program is the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra. We will > read the Sanskrit together with the Tibetan and Chinese > translations. This close reading will address problems of > interpretation, as well as the technical and stylistic challenges > faced by the translator of classical Buddhist texts. Students > should have facility in Sanskrit; knowledge of Tibetan or Chinese > will be helpful. > Format and Facilities?Guided by distinguished faculty, students > will meet 5 hours a day, five days a week to work with the > challenges posed by the text. Sessions will be held from 9:30 am ? > 12:30 pm and 3:30 pm ? 5:30 pm. Meals are provided, and housing is > an easy walk. Students will have access to the libraries of the > Mangalam Research Center and the University of California at > Berkeley (a 10-minute walk). Rapid Transit to San Francisco is half- > a-block away. > Focus?The focus will be on key terms of the Vimalak?rtinirde?a- > s?tra in the context of the profound Mahayana vision it sets forth. > We will examine vocabulary choices in both source and target > languages, sensitive to subtle shifts in meaning between languages > with different philosophical underpinnings. Among the topics to be > explored and skills to be honed: > ? Sanskrit roots, etymology, and the relation of Buddhist > Sanskrit to other forms of Sanskrit > ? Issues of context and intertexuality. > ? comparison with the Tibetan and Chinese, with reference to > commentaries. > ? stylistic choices and terminology in existing translations in > both canonical and modern languages > ? general issues in the theory and practice of translation as > they arise in rendering a classic Buddh ist text into a modern idiom. > Costs: Tuition: $1,200 (includes lunch daily). Food and lodging: > $1,350. Total cost: $2,550. > > Applications?The program is intended for advanced graduate > students, but applications from all qualified candidates will be > considered. Please submit an application by March 15, 2010 to > summerprograms at mangalamresearch.org. Include a short statement of > purpose, a description of language skills and how acquired, and a > 1?2 paragraph letter of endorsement from your principal adviser. > Students completing the program will receive a formal letter from > the Buddhist Studies program of the University of California, > Berkeley, certifying that the course corresponds to a semester long > graduate seminar of fifteen weeks with five hours of instruction > per week." > > Maximum number of participants is 15. Applicants will be notified > by April 10, 2010. ============ Michael Witzel witzel at fas.harvard.edu Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University 1 Bow Street, Cambridge MA 02138, USA phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; my direct line: 617- 496 2990 From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Mon Mar 8 17:57:36 2010 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 09:57:36 -0800 Subject: "Saisha" as the name of a goddess? In-Reply-To: <304_1268059181_1268059181_3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D704D4B4E4C0@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227088820.23782.642077347711631739.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 725 Lines: 16 The only exactly parallel case (in terms of structure and the justification given) of which I am aware was contained in a story/joke I once heard from Pt. V. B. Bhagavat/Bhagwat: someone named/naming his son apy-ekadanta, thinking it was one of Gane;sa's name, on the basis of the Amara-ko;sa (1.94) line: apyekadanta-heramba-lambodara-gajaananaa.h. The onus of proving that sai.saa is a name of Lak.smii should be on the one who made the claim. If the proof is said to be in the line >sai?? dev? sakala-bhuvana-pr?rthan?-k?madhenu?<, even after you explained that sai.saa is just saa e.saa, then sai.saa should also be another name/word for vakrokti, because Bhaamaha wrote: sai.saa sarvatra vakrokti.h! ashok aklujkar From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Mon Mar 8 16:44:51 2010 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 11:44:51 -0500 Subject: "Saisha" as the name of a goddess? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088808.23782.2170083677398528832.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6375 Lines: 186 Naciketas / Naciket? < na ciketa, -- well he learned something... s?man = s? + ama : s? = eye, ama = mind (in Brahmana texts, ChU 1.7.1) ... MW On Mar 8, 2010, at 11:22 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > ko j?n?ti? > > > On 8 March 2010 15:39, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: > >> Dear Indologists, >> >> Recently I met a Brahmin family from Karnataka who have a newborn >> daughter >> named "Saisha". They asked me what the word means. I could not >> think of a >> Sanskrit word close to "Saisha." Then the grandfather said that >> this is a >> name of goddess Lakshmi used in a Sanskrit stotra popular among >> followers of >> Ramanuja. The line from the stotra he recited was: sai?? dev? >> sakala-bhuvana-pr?rthan?-k?madhenu?. It was immediately >> apparent to me that >> the "Saisha" was simply s? e??, and not a name of the goddess, >> but I was not >> able to convince the grandfather of the child, who fervently >> argued that >> "Saisha" was an authentic name of the goddess. I wonder if others >> have come >> across similar examples. >> >> Madhav >> >> Madhav M. Deshpande >> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >> The University of Michigan >> Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA >> ________________________________________ >> From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Alexander von >> Rospatt [rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU] >> Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 3:42 PM >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Subject: Update: Berkeley Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward >> a Western >> Terminology for Buddhist Texts >> >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> there are still a few free places on the 2010 Berkeley Summer >> Program: >> Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts. >> >> I would be grateful if you could remind potentially interested >> students of >> this special opportunity. The announcement can now also be found >> online at >> http://mangalamresearch.org/summer.htm. >> >> With many thanks (and apologies for cross-listing with H-Buddhism), >> >> >> Alexander von Rospatt >> >> ------------ >> >> Mangalam Research Center for Buddhist Languages >> Center for Buddhist Studies, University of California >> Ho Center for Buddhist Studies, Stanford University >> >> Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for >> Buddhist >> Texts >> Berkeley, CA, USA. June 14-July 2, 2010 >> Core Faculty: Luis Gomez, Michael Hahn >> Associate Faculty: Paul Harrison, Alexander von Rospatt, Carmen >> Dragonetti, >> Fernando Tola >> >> Putting the Dharma into the words of a new culture is a task that has >> traditionally unfolded over several generations. In the West, >> where the >> languages of educated discourse are sophisticated and rich with >> layers of >> meaning, the challenges of being able to convey the Buddhist >> teachings as >> faithfully as possible are especially daunting. >> This intensive three-week program, intended primarily for graduate >> students >> in Buddhism, Indology, or allied fields, is a small step toward a >> clear and >> consistent terminology or (more modestly) developing skills and >> strategies >> for finding the best translation equivalents in contemporary English. >> The text for the program is the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra. We >> will read the >> Sanskrit together with the Tibetan and Chinese translations. This >> close >> reading will address problems of interpretation, as well as the >> technical >> and stylistic challenges faced by the translator of classical >> Buddhist >> texts. Students should have facility in Sanskrit; knowledge of >> Tibetan or >> Chinese will be helpful. >> Format and Facilities?Guided by distinguished faculty, students >> will meet 5 >> hours a day, five days a week to work with the challenges posed by >> the text. >> Sessions will be held from 9:30 am ? 12:30 pm and 3:30 pm ? >> 5:30 pm. Meals >> are provided, and housing is an easy walk. Students will have >> access to the >> libraries of the Mangalam Research Center and the University of >> California >> at Berkeley (a 10-minute walk). Rapid Transit to San Francisco is >> half-a-block away. >> Focus?The focus will be on key terms of the Vimalak?rtinirde?a- >> s?tra in the >> context of the profound Mahayana vision it sets forth. We will >> examine >> vocabulary choices in both source and target languages, sensitive >> to subtle >> shifts in meaning between languages with different philosophical >> underpinnings. Among the topics to be explored and skills to be >> honed: >> ? Sanskrit roots, etymology, and the relation of Buddhist >> Sanskrit to >> other forms of Sanskrit >> ? Issues of context and intertexuality. >> ? comparison with the Tibetan and Chinese, with reference to >> commentaries. >> ? stylistic choices and terminology in existing translations in >> both >> canonical and modern languages >> ? general issues in the theory and practice of translation as >> they arise >> in rendering a classic Buddh ist text into a modern idiom. >> Costs: Tuition: $1,200 (includes lunch daily). Food and lodging: >> $1,350. >> Total cost: $2,550. >> >> Applications?The program is intended for advanced graduate >> students, but >> applications from all qualified candidates will be considered. >> Please submit >> an application by March 15, 2010 to >> summerprograms at mangalamresearch.org. >> Include a short statement of purpose, a description of language >> skills and >> how acquired, and a 1?2 paragraph letter of endorsement from your >> principal >> adviser. Students completing the program will receive a formal >> letter from >> the Buddhist Studies program of the University of California, >> Berkeley, >> certifying that the course corresponds to a semester long graduate >> seminar >> of fifteen weeks with five hours of instruction per week." >> >> Maximum number of participants is 15. Applicants will be notified >> by April >> 10, 2010. >> ============ Michael Witzel witzel at fas.harvard.edu Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University 1 Bow Street, Cambridge MA 02138, USA phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; my direct line: 617- 496 2990 From kiepue at T-ONLINE.DE Mon Mar 8 10:55:21 2010 From: kiepue at T-ONLINE.DE (=?utf-8?Q?petra_kieffer-P=C3=BClz?=) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 11:55:21 +0100 Subject: upodghata Message-ID: <161227088792.23782.9646224117015155926.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 962 Lines: 35 Dear All, I am in search of a parallel in Sanskrit for the following verse from the Vajirabuddhi??k? upoggh?to pada? c' eva padattho padaviggaho codan? pratyavajj?na? by?khy? tantassa chabbiddh? The six terms as given in this verse do not tally with the standard terms (sambandha, pada, padattha, padaviggaha, codan?, parih?ra) given in the P?li literature from ca. the tenth century onwards as the categories relevant for writers of commentaries. Words like upoggh?ta, pratyavajj?na, vy?khy? used in this verse make it probable that Vajirabuddhi based himself on some Sanskrit source. Below are the terms for which alternatives are used in P?li literature: upoggh?ta = sambandha = nid?na? = nidassana? codan? = anuyoga = c?lan? parih?ra = paccupa??h?na? = pratyavajj?na? Any suggestions are welcome. Petra Kieffer-P?lz ************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2 99423 Weimar Germany Tel. 03643/770447 kiepue at t-online.de From hwtull at MSN.COM Mon Mar 8 16:57:21 2010 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 11:57:21 -0500 Subject: "Saisha" as the name of a goddess? In-Reply-To: <363E01E7-F33C-4C31-B5A8-E9613E382F14@fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <161227088811.23782.16112934836718247535.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6891 Lines: 189 "ka" is perhaps the best known pronoun to undergo this sort of transformation. But, one doesn't hear of many children with this name. Herman Tull -------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Witzel" Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 11:44 AM To: Subject: Re: "Saisha" as the name of a goddess? > Naciketas / Naciket? < na ciketa, -- well he learned something... > > s?man = s? + ama : s? = eye, ama = mind (in Brahmana texts, ChU > 1.7.1) > > ... > > MW > > On Mar 8, 2010, at 11:22 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > >> ko j?n?ti? >> >> >> On 8 March 2010 15:39, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: >> >>> Dear Indologists, >>> >>> Recently I met a Brahmin family from Karnataka who have a newborn >>> daughter >>> named "Saisha". They asked me what the word means. I could not think >>> of a >>> Sanskrit word close to "Saisha." Then the grandfather said that this >>> is a >>> name of goddess Lakshmi used in a Sanskrit stotra popular among >>> followers of >>> Ramanuja. The line from the stotra he recited was: sai?? dev? >>> sakala-bhuvana-pr?rthan?-k?madhenu?. It was immediately apparent to me >>> that >>> the "Saisha" was simply s? e??, and not a name of the goddess, but I >>> was not >>> able to convince the grandfather of the child, who fervently argued >>> that >>> "Saisha" was an authentic name of the goddess. I wonder if others have >>> come >>> across similar examples. >>> >>> Madhav >>> >>> Madhav M. Deshpande >>> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >>> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >>> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >>> The University of Michigan >>> Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Alexander von >>> Rospatt [rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU] >>> Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 3:42 PM >>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>> Subject: Update: Berkeley Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a >>> Western >>> Terminology for Buddhist Texts >>> >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> there are still a few free places on the 2010 Berkeley Summer Program: >>> Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts. >>> >>> I would be grateful if you could remind potentially interested students >>> of >>> this special opportunity. The announcement can now also be found online >>> at >>> http://mangalamresearch.org/summer.htm. >>> >>> With many thanks (and apologies for cross-listing with H-Buddhism), >>> >>> >>> Alexander von Rospatt >>> >>> ------------ >>> >>> Mangalam Research Center for Buddhist Languages >>> Center for Buddhist Studies, University of California >>> Ho Center for Buddhist Studies, Stanford University >>> >>> Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for >>> Buddhist >>> Texts >>> Berkeley, CA, USA. June 14-July 2, 2010 >>> Core Faculty: Luis Gomez, Michael Hahn >>> Associate Faculty: Paul Harrison, Alexander von Rospatt, Carmen >>> Dragonetti, >>> Fernando Tola >>> >>> Putting the Dharma into the words of a new culture is a task that has >>> traditionally unfolded over several generations. In the West, where the >>> languages of educated discourse are sophisticated and rich with layers >>> of >>> meaning, the challenges of being able to convey the Buddhist teachings >>> as >>> faithfully as possible are especially daunting. >>> This intensive three-week program, intended primarily for graduate >>> students >>> in Buddhism, Indology, or allied fields, is a small step toward a clear >>> and >>> consistent terminology or (more modestly) developing skills and >>> strategies >>> for finding the best translation equivalents in contemporary English. >>> The text for the program is the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra. We will read >>> the >>> Sanskrit together with the Tibetan and Chinese translations. This close >>> reading will address problems of interpretation, as well as the >>> technical >>> and stylistic challenges faced by the translator of classical Buddhist >>> texts. Students should have facility in Sanskrit; knowledge of Tibetan >>> or >>> Chinese will be helpful. >>> Format and Facilities?Guided by distinguished faculty, students will >>> meet 5 >>> hours a day, five days a week to work with the challenges posed by the >>> text. >>> Sessions will be held from 9:30 am ? 12:30 pm and 3:30 pm ? 5:30 pm. >>> Meals >>> are provided, and housing is an easy walk. Students will have access to >>> the >>> libraries of the Mangalam Research Center and the University of >>> California >>> at Berkeley (a 10-minute walk). Rapid Transit to San Francisco is >>> half-a-block away. >>> Focus?The focus will be on key terms of the Vimalak?rtinirde?a- s?tra in >>> the >>> context of the profound Mahayana vision it sets forth. We will examine >>> vocabulary choices in both source and target languages, sensitive to >>> subtle >>> shifts in meaning between languages with different philosophical >>> underpinnings. Among the topics to be explored and skills to be honed: >>> ? Sanskrit roots, etymology, and the relation of Buddhist Sanskrit to >>> other forms of Sanskrit >>> ? Issues of context and intertexuality. >>> ? comparison with the Tibetan and Chinese, with reference to >>> commentaries. >>> ? stylistic choices and terminology in existing translations in both >>> canonical and modern languages >>> ? general issues in the theory and practice of translation as they >>> arise >>> in rendering a classic Buddh ist text into a modern idiom. >>> Costs: Tuition: $1,200 (includes lunch daily). Food and lodging: >>> $1,350. >>> Total cost: $2,550. >>> >>> Applications?The program is intended for advanced graduate students, >>> but >>> applications from all qualified candidates will be considered. Please >>> submit >>> an application by March 15, 2010 to >>> summerprograms at mangalamresearch.org. >>> Include a short statement of purpose, a description of language skills >>> and >>> how acquired, and a 1?2 paragraph letter of endorsement from your >>> principal >>> adviser. Students completing the program will receive a formal letter >>> from >>> the Buddhist Studies program of the University of California, Berkeley, >>> certifying that the course corresponds to a semester long graduate >>> seminar >>> of fifteen weeks with five hours of instruction per week." >>> >>> Maximum number of participants is 15. Applicants will be notified by >>> April >>> 10, 2010. >>> > > ============ > Michael Witzel > witzel at fas.harvard.edu > > > Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University > 1 Bow Street, > Cambridge MA 02138, USA > > phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; > my direct line: 617- 496 2990 > From emstern at VERIZON.NET Mon Mar 8 17:24:04 2010 From: emstern at VERIZON.NET (Elliot M. Stern) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 12:24:04 -0500 Subject: upodghata In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088813.23782.1355376594966020517.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1974 Lines: 47 A quick Google search brought up this verse, from the beginning of folio 2a in Tisa?a's Cikits?kalik? with commentary, in number 947 (Chambers 711) on page 293 of Verzeichniss der Sanskrit-Handschriften, volume 1 of Die Handschriften-Verzeichnisse der Koeniglichen Bibliothek (Berlin, 1853). The book is available on Googlebooks. upo]dgh?ta? pada? caiva pad?rtha? padavigraha? v?san?pratavastha?na? vy?khy? tantrasya ?a?vidh? Cikits?kalik? has been published together with a commentary by his son Candra?a, but I do not have volume in my personal library. The verse, which evidently is cited in Candra?a's commentary, does not appear in the excerpts from the commentary in Julius Jolly, Zur Quellenkunde der Indischen Medezin 4..., ZDMG 60:413-468. Elliot M. Stern 552 South 48th Street Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029 United States of America telephone: 215-747-6204 mobile: 267-240-8418 emstern at verizon.net On 08 Mar 2010, at 5:55 AM, petra kieffer-P?lz wrote: > Dear All, > > I am in search of a parallel in Sanskrit for the following verse from the Vajirabuddhi??k? > > upoggh?to pada? c' eva padattho padaviggaho > codan? pratyavajj?na? by?khy? tantassa chabbiddh? > > The six terms as given in this verse do not tally with the standard terms (sambandha, pada, padattha, padaviggaha, codan?, parih?ra) given in the P?li literature from ca. the tenth century onwards as the categories relevant for writers of commentaries. Words like upoggh?ta, pratyavajj?na, vy?khy? used in this verse make it probable that Vajirabuddhi based himself on some Sanskrit source. > > Below are the terms for which alternatives are used in P?li literature: > > upoggh?ta = sambandha = nid?na? = nidassana? > codan? = anuyoga = c?lan? > parih?ra = paccupa??h?na? = pratyavajj?na? > > > Any suggestions are welcome. > Petra Kieffer-P?lz > > ************** > Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz > Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2 > 99423 Weimar > Germany > Tel. 03643/770447 > kiepue at t-online.de From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Mon Mar 8 17:43:28 2010 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (george thompson) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 12:43:28 -0500 Subject: "Saisha" as the name of a goddess? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088817.23782.8215980266841672077.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5636 Lines: 128 kasmai devaaya havi.saa vidhema GT Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >ko j?n?ti? > > >On 8 March 2010 15:39, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: > > > >>Dear Indologists, >> >>Recently I met a Brahmin family from Karnataka who have a newborn daughter >>named "Saisha". They asked me what the word means. I could not think of a >>Sanskrit word close to "Saisha." Then the grandfather said that this is a >>name of goddess Lakshmi used in a Sanskrit stotra popular among followers of >>Ramanuja. The line from the stotra he recited was: sai?? dev? >>sakala-bhuvana-pr?rthan?-k?madhenu?. It was immediately apparent to me that >>the "Saisha" was simply s? e??, and not a name of the goddess, but I was not >>able to convince the grandfather of the child, who fervently argued that >>"Saisha" was an authentic name of the goddess. I wonder if others have come >>across similar examples. >> >>Madhav >> >>Madhav M. Deshpande >>Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >>Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >>202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >>The University of Michigan >>Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA >>________________________________________ >>From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Alexander von >>Rospatt [rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU] >>Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 3:42 PM >>To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>Subject: Update: Berkeley Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western >>Terminology for Buddhist Texts >> >>Dear Colleagues, >> >>there are still a few free places on the 2010 Berkeley Summer Program: >>Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts. >> >>I would be grateful if you could remind potentially interested students of >>this special opportunity. The announcement can now also be found online at >>http://mangalamresearch.org/summer.htm. >> >>With many thanks (and apologies for cross-listing with H-Buddhism), >> >> >>Alexander von Rospatt >> >>------------ >> >>Mangalam Research Center for Buddhist Languages >>Center for Buddhist Studies, University of California >>Ho Center for Buddhist Studies, Stanford University >> >>Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist >>Texts >>Berkeley, CA, USA. June 14-July 2, 2010 >>Core Faculty: Luis Gomez, Michael Hahn >>Associate Faculty: Paul Harrison, Alexander von Rospatt, Carmen Dragonetti, >>Fernando Tola >> >>Putting the Dharma into the words of a new culture is a task that has >>traditionally unfolded over several generations. In the West, where the >>languages of educated discourse are sophisticated and rich with layers of >>meaning, the challenges of being able to convey the Buddhist teachings as >>faithfully as possible are especially daunting. >>This intensive three-week program, intended primarily for graduate students >>in Buddhism, Indology, or allied fields, is a small step toward a clear and >>consistent terminology or (more modestly) developing skills and strategies >>for finding the best translation equivalents in contemporary English. >>The text for the program is the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra. We will read the >>Sanskrit together with the Tibetan and Chinese translations. This close >>reading will address problems of interpretation, as well as the technical >>and stylistic challenges faced by the translator of classical Buddhist >>texts. Students should have facility in Sanskrit; knowledge of Tibetan or >>Chinese will be helpful. >>Format and Facilities?Guided by distinguished faculty, students will meet 5 >>hours a day, five days a week to work with the challenges posed by the text. >>Sessions will be held from 9:30 am ? 12:30 pm and 3:30 pm ? 5:30 pm. Meals >>are provided, and housing is an easy walk. Students will have access to the >>libraries of the Mangalam Research Center and the University of California >>at Berkeley (a 10-minute walk). Rapid Transit to San Francisco is >>half-a-block away. >>Focus?The focus will be on key terms of the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra in the >>context of the profound Mahayana vision it sets forth. We will examine >>vocabulary choices in both source and target languages, sensitive to subtle >>shifts in meaning between languages with different philosophical >>underpinnings. Among the topics to be explored and skills to be honed: >>? Sanskrit roots, etymology, and the relation of Buddhist Sanskrit to >>other forms of Sanskrit >>? Issues of context and intertexuality. >>? comparison with the Tibetan and Chinese, with reference to commentaries. >>? stylistic choices and terminology in existing translations in both >>canonical and modern languages >>? general issues in the theory and practice of translation as they arise >>in rendering a classic Buddh ist text into a modern idiom. >>Costs: Tuition: $1,200 (includes lunch daily). Food and lodging: $1,350. >>Total cost: $2,550. >> >>Applications?The program is intended for advanced graduate students, but >>applications from all qualified candidates will be considered. Please submit >>an application by March 15, 2010 to summerprograms at mangalamresearch.org. >>Include a short statement of purpose, a description of language skills and >>how acquired, and a 1?2 paragraph letter of endorsement from your principal >>adviser. Students completing the program will receive a formal letter from >>the Buddhist Studies program of the University of California, Berkeley, >>certifying that the course corresponds to a semester long graduate seminar >>of fifteen weeks with five hours of instruction per week." >> >> Maximum number of participants is 15. Applicants will be notified by April >>10, 2010. >> >> >> > > > From emstern at VERIZON.NET Mon Mar 8 18:01:33 2010 From: emstern at VERIZON.NET (Elliot M. Stern) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 13:01:33 -0500 Subject: upodghata In-Reply-To: <71FB6793-B5B7-44B6-8299-B50921F35EA9@verizon.net> Message-ID: <161227088822.23782.16137371231914001027.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2399 Lines: 65 Sorry for the typos! This should be correct: > upo]dgh?ta? pada? caiva pad?rtha? padavigraha? v?san?pratyavasth?na? vy?khy? tantrasya ?a?vidh? Elliot M. Stern 552 South 48th Street Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029 United States of America telephone: 215-747-6204 mobile: 267-240-8418 emstern at verizon.net On 08 Mar 2010, at 12:24 PM, Elliot M. Stern wrote: > A quick Google search brought up this verse, from the beginning of folio 2a in Tisa?a's Cikits?kalik? with commentary, in number 947 (Chambers 711) on page 293 of Verzeichniss der Sanskrit-Handschriften, volume 1 of Die Handschriften-Verzeichnisse der Koeniglichen Bibliothek (Berlin, 1853). The book is available on Googlebooks. > > upo]dgh?ta? pada? caiva pad?rtha? padavigraha? v?san?pratavastha?na? vy?khy? tantrasya ?a?vidh? > > Cikits?kalik? has been published together with a commentary by his son Candra?a, but I do not have volume in my personal library. The verse, which evidently is cited in Candra?a's commentary, does not appear in the excerpts from the commentary in Julius Jolly, Zur Quellenkunde der Indischen Medezin 4..., ZDMG 60:413-468. > > Elliot M. Stern > 552 South 48th Street > Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029 > United States of America > telephone: 215-747-6204 > mobile: 267-240-8418 > emstern at verizon.net > > > > On 08 Mar 2010, at 5:55 AM, petra kieffer-P?lz wrote: > >> Dear All, >> >> I am in search of a parallel in Sanskrit for the following verse from the Vajirabuddhi??k? >> >> upoggh?to pada? c' eva padattho padaviggaho >> codan? pratyavajj?na? by?khy? tantassa chabbiddh? >> >> The six terms as given in this verse do not tally with the standard terms (sambandha, pada, padattha, padaviggaha, codan?, parih?ra) given in the P?li literature from ca. the tenth century onwards as the categories relevant for writers of commentaries. Words like upoggh?ta, pratyavajj?na, vy?khy? used in this verse make it probable that Vajirabuddhi based himself on some Sanskrit source. >> >> Below are the terms for which alternatives are used in P?li literature: >> >> upoggh?ta = sambandha = nid?na? = nidassana? >> codan? = anuyoga = c?lan? >> parih?ra = paccupa??h?na? = pratyavajj?na? >> >> >> Any suggestions are welcome. >> Petra Kieffer-P?lz >> >> ************** >> Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz >> Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2 >> 99423 Weimar >> Germany >> Tel. 03643/770447 >> kiepue at t-online.de From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Mar 8 16:22:31 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 17:22:31 +0100 Subject: "Saisha" as the name of a goddess? In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D704D4B4E4C0@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227088806.23782.1849034945625976342.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5529 Lines: 115 ko j?n?ti? On 8 March 2010 15:39, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: > Dear Indologists, > > Recently I met a Brahmin family from Karnataka who have a newborn daughter > named "Saisha". They asked me what the word means. I could not think of a > Sanskrit word close to "Saisha." Then the grandfather said that this is a > name of goddess Lakshmi used in a Sanskrit stotra popular among followers of > Ramanuja. The line from the stotra he recited was: sai?? dev? > sakala-bhuvana-pr?rthan?-k?madhenu?. It was immediately apparent to me that > the "Saisha" was simply s? e??, and not a name of the goddess, but I was not > able to convince the grandfather of the child, who fervently argued that > "Saisha" was an authentic name of the goddess. I wonder if others have come > across similar examples. > > Madhav > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA > ________________________________________ > From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Alexander von > Rospatt [rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU] > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 3:42 PM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Update: Berkeley Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western > Terminology for Buddhist Texts > > Dear Colleagues, > > there are still a few free places on the 2010 Berkeley Summer Program: > Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts. > > I would be grateful if you could remind potentially interested students of > this special opportunity. The announcement can now also be found online at > http://mangalamresearch.org/summer.htm. > > With many thanks (and apologies for cross-listing with H-Buddhism), > > > Alexander von Rospatt > > ------------ > > Mangalam Research Center for Buddhist Languages > Center for Buddhist Studies, University of California > Ho Center for Buddhist Studies, Stanford University > > Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist > Texts > Berkeley, CA, USA. June 14-July 2, 2010 > Core Faculty: Luis Gomez, Michael Hahn > Associate Faculty: Paul Harrison, Alexander von Rospatt, Carmen Dragonetti, > Fernando Tola > > Putting the Dharma into the words of a new culture is a task that has > traditionally unfolded over several generations. In the West, where the > languages of educated discourse are sophisticated and rich with layers of > meaning, the challenges of being able to convey the Buddhist teachings as > faithfully as possible are especially daunting. > This intensive three-week program, intended primarily for graduate students > in Buddhism, Indology, or allied fields, is a small step toward a clear and > consistent terminology or (more modestly) developing skills and strategies > for finding the best translation equivalents in contemporary English. > The text for the program is the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra. We will read the > Sanskrit together with the Tibetan and Chinese translations. This close > reading will address problems of interpretation, as well as the technical > and stylistic challenges faced by the translator of classical Buddhist > texts. Students should have facility in Sanskrit; knowledge of Tibetan or > Chinese will be helpful. > Format and Facilities?Guided by distinguished faculty, students will meet 5 > hours a day, five days a week to work with the challenges posed by the text. > Sessions will be held from 9:30 am ? 12:30 pm and 3:30 pm ? 5:30 pm. Meals > are provided, and housing is an easy walk. Students will have access to the > libraries of the Mangalam Research Center and the University of California > at Berkeley (a 10-minute walk). Rapid Transit to San Francisco is > half-a-block away. > Focus?The focus will be on key terms of the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra in the > context of the profound Mahayana vision it sets forth. We will examine > vocabulary choices in both source and target languages, sensitive to subtle > shifts in meaning between languages with different philosophical > underpinnings. Among the topics to be explored and skills to be honed: > ? Sanskrit roots, etymology, and the relation of Buddhist Sanskrit to > other forms of Sanskrit > ? Issues of context and intertexuality. > ? comparison with the Tibetan and Chinese, with reference to commentaries. > ? stylistic choices and terminology in existing translations in both > canonical and modern languages > ? general issues in the theory and practice of translation as they arise > in rendering a classic Buddh ist text into a modern idiom. > Costs: Tuition: $1,200 (includes lunch daily). Food and lodging: $1,350. > Total cost: $2,550. > > Applications?The program is intended for advanced graduate students, but > applications from all qualified candidates will be considered. Please submit > an application by March 15, 2010 to summerprograms at mangalamresearch.org. > Include a short statement of purpose, a description of language skills and > how acquired, and a 1?2 paragraph letter of endorsement from your principal > adviser. Students completing the program will receive a formal letter from > the Buddhist Studies program of the University of California, Berkeley, > certifying that the course corresponds to a semester long graduate seminar > of fifteen weeks with five hours of instruction per week." > > Maximum number of participants is 15. Applicants will be notified by April > 10, 2010. > From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Mon Mar 8 15:40:08 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 21:10:08 +0530 Subject: "Saisha" as the name of a goddess? In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D704D4B4E4C0@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227088804.23782.7598454617525302423.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5971 Lines: 75 Dear Madhavji, evamkaaro ie the evam mayaa sutam the standard beginning of the Pali suttas became a holy?saying in Sanskrit Buddhism represented by a symbol in in Manranaya?;? michael means 'who is like God'?' You certainly know that?a deity has been addressed in the Rigveda ehimaayasa built from?ehi maa yaasiiH? 'come do not go'. Find some similarity? I think there are other example too. DB --- On Mon, 8/3/10, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: From: Deshpande, Madhav Subject: "Saisha" as the name of a goddess? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 8 March, 2010, 8:09 PM Dear Indologists, Recently I met a Brahmin family from Karnataka who have a newborn daughter named "Saisha".? They asked me what the word means.? I could not think of a Sanskrit word close to "Saisha."? Then the grandfather said that this is a name of goddess Lakshmi used in a Sanskrit stotra popular among followers of Ramanuja.? The line from the stotra he recited was:? sai?? dev? sakala-bhuvana-pr?rthan?-k?madhenu?.? It was immediately apparent to me that the "Saisha" was simply s? e??, and not a name of the goddess, but I was not able to convince the grandfather of the child, who fervently argued that "Saisha" was an authentic name of the goddess.? I wonder if others have come across similar examples. Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Alexander von Rospatt [rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 3:42 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Update: Berkeley Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts Dear Colleagues, there are still a few free places on the 2010 Berkeley Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts. I would be grateful if you could remind potentially interested students of this special opportunity. The announcement can now also be found online at http://mangalamresearch.org/summer.htm. With many thanks (and apologies for cross-listing with H-Buddhism), Alexander von Rospatt ------------ Mangalam Research Center for Buddhist Languages Center for Buddhist Studies, University of California Ho Center for Buddhist Studies, Stanford University Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts Berkeley, CA, USA. June 14-July 2, 2010 Core Faculty: Luis Gomez, Michael Hahn Associate Faculty: Paul Harrison, Alexander von Rospatt, Carmen Dragonetti, Fernando Tola Putting the Dharma into the words of a new culture is a task that has traditionally unfolded over several generations. In the West, where the languages of educated discourse are sophisticated and rich with layers of meaning, the challenges of being able to convey the Buddhist teachings as faithfully as possible are especially daunting. This intensive three-week program, intended primarily for graduate students in Buddhism, Indology, or allied fields, is a small step toward a clear and consistent terminology or (more modestly) developing skills and strategies for finding the best translation equivalents in contemporary English. The text for the program is the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra. We will read the Sanskrit together with the Tibetan and Chinese translations. This close reading will address problems of interpretation, as well as the technical and stylistic challenges faced by the translator of classical Buddhist texts. Students should have facility in Sanskrit; knowledge of Tibetan or Chinese will be helpful. Format and Facilities?Guided by distinguished faculty, students will meet 5 hours a day, five days a week to work with the challenges posed by the text. Sessions will be held from 9:30 am ? 12:30 pm and 3:30 pm ? 5:30 pm. Meals are provided, and housing is an easy walk. Students will have access to the libraries of the Mangalam Research Center and the University of California at Berkeley (a 10-minute walk). Rapid Transit to San Francisco is half-a-block away. Focus?The focus will be on key terms of the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra in the context of the profound Mahayana vision it sets forth. We will examine vocabulary choices in? both source and target languages, sensitive to subtle shifts in meaning between languages with different philosophical underpinnings. Among the topics to be explored and skills to be honed: ?? Sanskrit roots, etymology, and the relation of Buddhist Sanskrit to other forms of Sanskrit ?? Issues of context and intertexuality. ?? comparison with the Tibetan and Chinese, with reference to commentaries. ?? stylistic choices and terminology in existing translations in both canonical and modern languages ?? general issues in the theory and practice of translation as they arise in rendering a classic Buddh ist text into a modern idiom. Costs: Tuition: $1,200 (includes lunch daily). Food and lodging: $1,350. Total cost: $2,550. Applications?The program is intended for advanced graduate students, but applications from all qualified candidates will be considered. Please submit an application by March 15, 2010 to summerprograms at mangalamresearch.org. Include a short statement of purpose, a description of language skills and how acquired, and a 1?2 paragraph letter of endorsement from your principal adviser. Students completing the program will receive a formal letter from the Buddhist Studies program of the University of California, Berkeley, certifying that the course corresponds to a semester long graduate seminar of fifteen weeks with five hours of instruction per week." Maximum number of participants is 15. Applicants will be notified by April 10, 2010. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX Tue Mar 9 14:42:31 2010 From: h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX (Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 10 06:42:31 -0800 Subject: Supports Protest of Wendy Doniger's Anti-Hindu Work Message-ID: <161227088831.23782.12885321453847363060.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 15656 Lines: 603 Dear Professors: I don't want to take party for any site. But wiht all my repectfull to all of your fine persons. If somebody wants to know the other site from hindu believers, for to take a neutral and imparcial choice to give support, here you are the traditional hinduistic scholars rasons for their protest. Wit my best whises Lic. M.A. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad Internacional Euroamericana. Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada. Miembro del Instituto de Estudios Filos?ficos de Saltillo A. C. www.uie.edu.es > > Namaste, > > ????The Vedic Friends Association > > supports the endeavor > > to bring attention to the derogative work against > Hindus > > and the Vedic tradition > > of Wendy Doniger, especially her newest book > > "Hindus--An Alternative History." > > She has been working this way for some time, and if > this > > book would be addressed > > toward Muslims or the Koran, you know that there would > be > > an uproar. But people > > think they can do anything when it is in regards to > Hindus. > > It is time that > > people should come to know that this will not be so > easy, > > and that Hindus are no > > longer such soft targets. It is time that all Hindus > and > > followers of the Vedic > > Dharma speak out against this kind of activity and > writing > > as displayed by this > > woman, and show how inaccurate is her rendition of > the > > Vedic tradition.? > > > > ????Hari Om, > > ????Stephen Knapp > > ????President of the Vedic Friends > > Association > > > ? > > > > HINDU PROTEST MARCH IN NEW YORK CITY ? > > > > > > Purpose: ? To protest the decision of National > > Book Critics Circle to > > Honor Dr. Wendy > > > ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? > > ? ? > > Doniger?s latest book titled ?Hindus ? An > Alternative > > History? > > > > > > Date: ? ? ? ?March 10, 2010 > > (Wednesday) > > > > > > Time: ? ? ? ?5.30 p.m. to 7.30 > > p.m. > > > > > > Venue: ? ? ?In front of New School > > University Building > > > > > ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? > > ? ? 66 > > West 12th Street, New York, NY 10011? > > ? > > > > > > Brief Information? > > Dr. Wendy Doniger is the Mircea Eliade Distinguished > > Service Professor of > > the History of Religions at the University of Chicago > > Divinity School. She is > > the author of several books on Hindu Scriptures. Her > focus > > has been on > > translating, interpreting and comparing elements of > Hindu > > Dharma through modern > > contexts of gender, sexuality and identity. ? > > > > > > Almost all of her books contain factual errors, > > mischaracterization s and is > > loaded with hatred for Hindus. Since most of her books > are > > interpretations of > > Ancient Hindu Scriptures, which is written in Ancient > > Sanskrit, at the minimum, > > she must possess a working knowledge of Sanskrit. Dr. > > Doniger?s Sanskrit > > credentials are as good as the Iranian President > Mahmoud > > Ahmadinejad?s > > scholarship on the Hebrew Language and the Jewish > > Scriptures. Renowned Scholars > > of Sanskrit, from the West and India, have rejected > Dr. > > Doniger?s deceptive > > claims of being a Sanskrit Scholar. But, due to the > support > > she receives from > > the University of Chicago Divinity School, a private > > Christian Institution, and > > major American Publishers, many have endorsed her > books > > without considering her > > qualifications and overlooking Hindu Sentiments. > Since > > Hindus are deeply hurt by > > her writings, we are requesting the National Book > Critic > > Circle to respect the > > sentiments of a billion Hindus worldwide and withdraw > the > > name of Dr. Wendy > > Doniger being considered for its prestigious award in > the > > non-fiction category. > > Her book titled ?Hindus ? An Alternative > History? is > > a work that promotes > > bigotry, racism and intolerance. No civilized or > decent > > human being, > > organization or society will ever support such a book > given > > Dr. Doniger?s > > persistent verbal violence against the Hindus. We > request > > all Concerned Hindus > > to join us in the Protest March. ? > > > > > > USHA (United States Hindu Alliance), is a national > > organization of Hindus > > dedicated to protecting the interests of Hindus > Worldwide. > > We do not believe in > > any form of violence. We, as Hindus, believe that > hurting > > anyone, whether > > through speech, the written word or physical action > are all > > forms of violence. > > USHA will always protest against acts of racism, > bigotry > > and intolerance. The > > protest march is only a beginning. USHA is garnering > > worldwide support for > > further actions against the writer and all those who > > willingly and deliberately > > support her Anti-Hindu Agenda, including its publisher > ? > > Penguin Books. > > ? > > > > > > IMPORTANT INSTRUCTIONS: In order to ensure the > success > > of this peaceful > > protest march, please register by sending an e-mail > > confirmation to hinduamericans@ > > gmail.com. Vegetarian Samosas will be served > > after the March to registered participants. Placards > for > > use during the March > > will be provided by USHA volunteers at the venue. All > > participants must adhere > > to the high standards of USHA and Hindu Scriptures. > Even > > though the book is > > highly provocative and insensitive to the sentiments > of > > Hindus, the use of any > > profane, indecent or uncharitable language is > strictly > > prohibited, and for the > > record, inconsistent with Hindu Belief and Practice. > Only > > pre-authorized > > Speakers will be allowed to address the participants. > > ? > > ? > > > > > > For more information on USHA, please visit our > website > > at www.ushaonline. > > org? > > HAF Urges NBCC Not Honor Doniger's Latest > > Book > > > > > > New York, NY (February 5, 2009) - The Hindu American > > Foundation sent the > > following letter to the President of the National > Book > > Critics Circle (NBCC), > > Jane Ciabattari, expressing its disappointment of the > > short-listing of Professor > > Wendy Doniger's The Hindus: An Alternative History > and > > urging NBCC not bestow > > the 2009 nonfiction award to it. > > ? > > Dear Ms. Ciabattari, > > ? > > The Hindu American Foundation (HAF), a non-profit > > advocacy organization for > > the two million strong Hindu American community, > strongly > > objects to NBCC's > > short-listing of Professor Wendy Doniger's The > Hindus: > > An Alternative History as > > a finalist in the "nonfiction" category. > > ?Prof. Doniger is known for > > seeking and presenting provocative and idiosyncratic > > sexually explicit and > > Freudian analyses of Hinduism's holiest books. ?In > > The Hindus: An > > Alternative History she hues to the same, now tiring > > interpretation of the acts, > > deeds and words attributed to Hindu deities and > included in > > Hindu scripture and > > sacred books. ?This has naturally stirred up strong > > emotions in the Hindu > > community in India and in the Hindu Diaspora. Far > from > > encouraging thoughtful, > > careful and disciplined inquiry into others' > histories > > and belief systems, any > > award from NBCC for this book would merely fuel > negative > > sentiments among > > Hindus, and do a disservice to serious academic > > inquiry. > > ? > > The Hindus: An Alternative History does not represent > > nor provide insight > > into the contemporary practices and interpretations > of > > Hinduism and its > > scriptures. ?In the end, rather than offering the > > reader a depiction of a > > family of vibrant religious traditions practiced by a > > billion Hindus globally, > > Prof. Doniger offers an offensive, shocking, and > gratuitous > > deconstruction of > > some of the most important epics and episodes in > Hindu > > thought and belief. > > ?The pornographic depictions of Hindu Gods and > > Goddesses in Prof. Doniger's > > books already grace the websites of some banefully > > anti-Hindu hate sites with > > their own varied agendas.? > > ? > > Prof. Doniger denigrates the Gods and Goddesses that > > Hindus worship. > > ?Parallelisms are proffered in this book comparing > the > > sacred stone icon > > representing Lord Shiva to a leather strap-on sex toy, > and > > Lord Rama, one of the > > most popular deities of Hindus, is accused of acting > out of > > fear that he was > > becoming a sex-addict like his father. ?A Danish > > cartoonist would be hard > > pressed to match the disturbing parodies of a > > believer's faith that Prof. > > Doniger offers here. > > ? > > Unfortunately, instead of answering her many Hindu > > critics, Prof. Doniger > > sweepingly labels her Hindu critics as Hindu > > fundamentalists, never bothering to > > analyze the legitimacy of arguments stemming from > adherents > > of the faith in > > which she claims scholarship. ?In her well-received > > piece, "Oh, But You Do > > Get It Wrong", Aditi Banerjee, Esq., points out that > > "Doniger ignores the > > prolific response to her work by the American Hindu > > community, including dozens > > of published articles, countless public conferences, > and > > repeated calls for > > debate and dialogue between the academy and the > > Hindu-American community." > > ?To add to Ms. Banerjee's last point, Prof. > > Doniger represents what many > > believe to be a fundamental flaw in the academic study > of > > Hinduism: that Hindu > > studies is too often the last refuge of biased > non-Hindu > > academics presenting > > themselves as "experts" on a faith that they > > study without the insight, > > recognition or reverence that a practicing Hindu or > > non-Hindu striving to study > > Hinduism from the insider's perspective would offer. > > ?While the Foundation > > believes in the freedom of expression, it takes issue > with > > Prof. Doniger's > > skewed and superficial analyses and the value, or > lack > > thereof, they bring to > > the study of Hinduism. ?A Freudian true-believer, > > Prof. Doniger may believe > > that sex, desire and repressed urges animate the > human > > condition, but > > modern/humanistic psychology has challenged this > school of > > thought as limited > > and limiting. ?Using Freudian analysis, then, to > > retrospectively find > > psychosexual motivations of Hindu deities seems > egregiously > > inappropriate and > > deliberately provocative. > > ? > > HAF urges NBCC not bestow such a distinguished honor > > upon a piece of work > > that is not just degrading and insulting to one > billion > > Hindus worldwide but, > > frankly a distortion of the history of the Hindu > faith. > > ?Finally, the > > Foundation and its membership hopes NBCC takes into > account > > the numerous > > protests from the Hindu community by reexamining its > > decision to short-list > > Prof. Doniger's book. > > ? > > The Hindu American Foundation Board of Directors and > > staff members are > > available for an in-depth discussion with you and/or > any > > NBCC Board member at > > your convenience. > > ? > > Thank you, > > Hindu American Foundation > > http://www.hafsite. > > org/media/ pr/nbccletter > > For Immediate Release > > March 1, 2010 > > > > > > USHA Urges NBCC Not to Honor Dr. Wendy > > Doniger? > > > > > > March 1, 2010 ? Atlanta - The United States Hindu > > Alliance sent the > > following letter to the Board of New York based > National > > Book Critics Circle > > urging the literary body to withdraw the nomination of > Dr. > > Wendy Doniger for its > > National Award in the Non Fiction Category for her > latest > > book titled ?Hindus ? > > An Alternative History?. > > > > > > TEXT OF THE LETTER TO NBCC PRESIDENT JANE > > CIABATTARI: > > > > > > Dear Ms. Ciabattari, > > > > > > The United States Hindu Alliance is shocked to learn > > that a literary > > organization of the stature of NBCC is considering > > bestowing one of its > > prestigious Awards on Dr. Wendy Doniger for her > latest > > work, Hindus ? An > > Alternative History.? > > > > > > Dr. Doniger who claims to be a Scholar of India?s > > ancient Sanskrit Language > > may fool those who do not know the Sanskrit Language. > But > > renowned Western as > > well as Indian Sanskrit Scholars have repudiated her > > knowledge of Sanskrit. Dr. > > Doniger has attempted to interpret Hindu Scriptures > with > > her primitive and > > superficial knowledge of the Sanskrit Language. It may > be > > safe to say that her > > knowledge of Sanskrit and the religious traditions of > > Hindus are comparable to > > the Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad?s > knowledge of > > the Hebrew Language and > > the Jewish Scriptures.? > > > > > > Moreover, Dr. Doniger has always attempted to analyze > > and interpret Hindu > > Scriptures through modern contexts of gender, > sexuality and > > identity. Such an > > attempt is not only a farce but has no value in > > understanding the complex and > > profound philosophical underpinnings and symbolism of > one > > of the most ancient > > religious traditions of the world. In her effort to > impose > > her perverted views > > on Hindu Scriptures, she has employed the most > indecent, > > distasteful and > > provocative language known to writers of any > > language.? > > > > > > Hindus believe in freedom of thought, expression and > > worship for all. In > > the market place of ideas, we as humans are bound to > > encounter works that go > > beyond human decency and civility. The world cannot > stop > > writers from > > expressing, even if they appear abhorrent and > repulsive to > > an entire population. > > However, a prestigious body like NBCC can insulate > itself > > from the worldwide > > negative publicity that is bound to be generated if > your > > Board moves forward on > > the decision to honor a first rate bigot and racist. > We > > hope you and your fellow > > Board Members will see the pain and anguish this > Author of > > Hate has caused for a > > billion Hindus. Hence, there are a billion compelling > > reasons to reconsider your > > decision and we hope you do so in the interest of > mutual > > respect, mutual > > understanding and mutual love. > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your kind consideration. > > > > > > Yours respectfully, > > > > > > Gokul Kunnath > > President > > > > > > > > > >? ??? > >? ? ? > > > >? ??? > >? ???__._,_.___ > > > >? ? ? ??? > >??? > >? ? > >? ??? > >? ? ??? > >? ? ? ??? > > ??? ? Reply to sender | > >? ? ? ??? > > ??? ? Reply to group > > | > >? ? ? > ?????? ? Reply > > via web post | > >? ? ? ? ? > ?????? Start a New Topic > >? ? ??? > > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ???Messages > > in this topic > >? ? ? ? ???(1) > >? ? ? ? ? ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ???Recent > > Activity: > > > >? ??? > >? ? ? ? ? ??? > >? ? ???New Members > >? ? ???1 > >? ??? > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? > ??? > >? ??? > >??? > >? ???Visit Your Group > >??? > > > > > >??? > > > >??? > >???Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest > ? Unsubscribe ? Terms of Use > > > > > > > > > >? ? > > > >??? > >??? > >??? > > > > > > > >? ? ? > > > > > > > > > >? ? ? > > > >???. > > > > > >? ? > > > > > > __,_._,___ > > > > > >? > > > > > > > >??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ? ? ? Encuentra las mejores recetas en > Yahoo! Cocina.? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ??? > http://mx.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/ > Encuentra las mejores recetas en Yahoo! Cocina. http://mx.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/ From dxs163 at CASE.EDU Tue Mar 9 13:59:10 2010 From: dxs163 at CASE.EDU (Deepak Sarma) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 10 08:59:10 -0500 Subject: counter-petition in support of Doniger Message-ID: <161227088829.23782.16732947970993735964.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2458 Lines: 46 Greetings All: A counter-petition that is circulating in support of Doniger has come to my attention. Here is the note accompanying the counter-petition as well as the link ( http://petol.org/THAAH123) (embedded in the note). It appears that the author of the counter-petition is Raja Choudhury, whom I know nothing about. This seems germane to Indology as the petition was discussed a few weeks ago. yours, Deepak > I am shocked to see that thousands of Hindus and Indians gathering online in a Taliban like way to force the withdrawal of Wendy Doniger's excellent book "The Hindus: An Alternative History" published by Penguin. > > The petition for the withdrawal of the book can be read at http://www.PetitionOnline.com/dharma10/petition.html - where it describes the book as insulting and hurtful to Hindus and Indians everywhere. That is ridiculous. > > In reaction to this I have launched a counter petition at http://petol.org/THAAH123 with a point by point response to their erroneous analysis and would be grateful if you could let everyone you know about this. > > This petition is a counter response to the shameful demand for the withdrawal or banning of this excellent book. I support much of what the book purports and even more importantly I support Wendy Doniger's right to write, publish and propagate her opinion without the misplaced intervention of xenophobes and Indic or Hindu arrogance. I urge Penguin not to succumb to the pressure of this group and instead encourage them to take the high road as well as the path taken by most Hindus throughout history and allow for the free exchange of ideas, discussion and dialogue. We are an inclusive faith and an ever-absorbing people and do not condone xenophobia or prejudice of this kind. > > There is a big protest planned in favour of the book at the National Book Critics Center Awards on Wednesday 10 March 2010 at 6 pm in New York. Please do join or sign your name to our counter-petition. > > Thank you all lovers of free speech and Hindu tolerance. > > Raja Choudhury > raja at c3cube.com > +91 9871586502 Dr. Deepak Sarma Associate Professor of Religious Studies Associate Professor of Philosophy Associate Professor of Bioethics Asian Studies Faculty Mailing Address: Department of Religious Studies 111 Mather House 11201 Euclid Avenue Case Western Reserve University Cleveland, OH 44106-7112 office: 216-368-4790 fax: 216-368-4681 deepak.sarma at case.edu From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Tue Mar 9 08:35:40 2010 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 10 09:35:40 +0100 Subject: Positions available Message-ID: <161227088824.23782.7022207136278328882.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6800 Lines: 166 dear Colleagues, Although the positions described in the project below are not in Indian Studies (I myself will take care of the Indian side of things in this project), they might be of interest to some colleagues and/or students whom you know. I would consider it a great favor if you would circulate the information on these openings as broadly as possible. With appreciation, Jonathan Faculty of Humanities, Institute for Area Studies, Buddhism and Social Justice: Doctrine, Ideology and Discrimination in Tension*3x Ph.D and 1x Post-Doc Buddhism and Social Justice: Doctrine, Ideology and Discrimination in Tension * The Leiden Institute for Area Studies (LIAS) is responsible for researchers who are active in the fields of relations with East, South and Central and Southeast Asia and the Middle East. The Institute is divided into a School for Asian Studies and a School for Middle Eastern Studies. A multidisciplinary approach which comprises both the modern and the traditional periods is typical for the teaching and research within this Institute, whereby the knowledge of the source language is essential. The research of the approximately 75 staff members (including 20 professors) brings together the study of such subjects as history, law, economy, literature, religion and philology of the areas mentioned, both in the present day and in ancient times. Starting September 2010 the Leiden Institute for Area Studies has three full time (38 hrs) vacancies, available as 4 year PhD positions, and starting 2011 one 3 year Post-Doctoral fellowship, in the VICI project "Buddhism and Social Justice: Doctrine, Ideology and Discrimination in Tension," headed by Prof dr. Jonathan A. Silk. Project description Buddhism is widely perceived to be, and Buddhist sources themselves promote the tradition as, a philosophy of liberation. Yet, as perhaps everywhere, Buddhist societies, both ancient and modern, not only evidence, but indeed seem to promote, social inequalities. The project ?Buddhism and Social Justice? explores the inner tensions in Buddhist cultures between inherited core values and social realities, with specific foci on questions of labor (e.g., slavery and forced labor, serfdom) and social status (e.g., caste and discrimination). The project consists of five studies: a core investigation of slavery and caste in India, and studies on slavery in Korea, burakumin (?outcastes?) in Japan, ?serfdom? and monastic economy in Tibet, and ethnicity and Buddhism in Sri Lanka. These are approached through text-historical, historical and a socio-anthropological methods. The synergy between the projects lies in the question of how Buddhist ways of thinking and acting inform and structure historically Buddhist Asian societies, and how, correspondingly, Buddhist ideologies and dogmas were transformed in historical contexts. This study seeks therefore to uncover the links between the ancient and the modern and the theoretical and the real-world, thereby leading both to a deeper appreciation of how religious systems function in societies in general, and to a more nuanced appreciation of the dynamics of historically Buddhist societies in general, particularly with respect to questions of social justice. As such, the work is situated not only within the realms of Buddhist Studies and Asian History, but also at the juncture of Religious Studies, Political Science and Anthropology, as it engages issues of Church and Society, Slavery Studies, and the study of Race, Ethnicity and Caste. *The available positions are as follows: * *Post-doc: * Slavery in Korean Buddhism*. vacancy number: 10-048* *PhD 1: * *Burkumin* (?outcastes?) in Japanese Buddhism. *vacancy number: 10-048a* *PhD 2: * ?Serfdom? and Tibetan Monastic Economy. * vacancy number: 10-048b* *PhD 3: * Ethnicity and Buddhism in Sri Lanka*. vacancy number: 10-048c * Please see the full project description at http://www.hum.leiden.edu/lias/research/sas/vici-project-silk.html Applicants for a PhD position, Task and Requirements: *Task:* - The writing of a PhD dissertation; - publishing research results in the form of (an) article(s) and/or books; - presenting papers at (international) conferences, including the final conference of the project; - participation in local research meetings and PhD teaching; - organizing roundtable meetings and conferences in the framework of the research project. *Requirements:* - an MA, M.Phil or equivalent degree in a relevant field; - research knowledge of the language(s) necessary for the project; - fluency in English (spoken and written) and competence in other relevant modern languages; - ability to work independently. Post-Doctoral Fellowship applicants should have a demonstrably excellent academic track record in Buddhist Studies, and hold a PhD in Buddhist Studies or a related field, or its equivalent. They should have an excellent command of English and be prepared to present their research results in English. Applicants will teach a small number of courses on topics within their area of specialization, and assist in guiding the PhD students. Conditions of employment The position of the Postdoctoral fellow is temporary, max. three years with a full-time appointment (38 hours per week). The position of PhD-fellow (?promovendus?) is temporary, max. four years with a full-time appointment, and with an initial 18-month trial period. The salary is determined in accordance with the current scales as set out in the collective labor agreement for the Dutch universities (CAO): Postdoctoral fellow: min. ? 2.379, max. ? 4.374 PhD fellow: min. ? 2.042 - max. ? 2.612 More informationFor more information about the two positions please contact Prof. dr. J.A Silk, tel. +31-71-5272510, email j.a.silk at hum.leidenuniv.nl. See the full project description at http://www.hum.leiden.edu/lias/research/sas/vici-project-silk.html Application *PhD candidates please send your application (in English), including:* - a cover letter stating your motivation for this position, - a CV - copies of your academic transcripts (or Dutch cijferlijst), - a writing sample (such as your MA thesis), and - two references. *Post-doc candidates please send your application (in English), including:* - a cover letter stating your motivation for this position, - a CV, - copies of your academic transcripts, - a printed copy of your PhD thesis and other relevant publications, and - three references. Please send your application indicating the application number to the address below before the *23 april 2010 * vacature at hum.leidenuniv.nl -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From drdavis at WISC.EDU Tue Mar 9 15:55:50 2010 From: drdavis at WISC.EDU (Donald R Davis Jr) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 10 09:55:50 -0600 Subject: Publication Announcement-The Spirit of Hindu Law Message-ID: <161227088834.23782.6668261761550980414.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 292 Lines: 15 Dear Colleagues, I am pleased to announce the publication of the following book: Donald R. Davis, Jr. The Spirit of Hindu Law. Cambridge: Cambridge UP, 2010. Best regards, Don Davis Dept of Languages & Cultures of Asia University of Wisconsin-Madison From h.t.bakker at RUG.NL Tue Mar 9 09:34:01 2010 From: h.t.bakker at RUG.NL (hans bakker) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 10 10:34:01 +0100 Subject: Positions available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088827.23782.10287728301560374302.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1796 Lines: 49 Jonathan Silk wrote: > dear Colleagues, > > Although the positions described in the project below are not in Indian > Studies (I myself will take care of the Indian side of things in this > project), they might be of interest to some colleagues and/or students whom > you know. I would consider it a great favor if you would circulate the > information on these openings as broadly as possible. > > With appreciation, Jonathan > Dear Jonathan, I admire you, I am proud to be your colleague and co-editor, but I don't envy you. From ground-zero you have built up a very strong position in Buddhist studies in this country. This is all to your credit and to your credit alone. With the Vici grant, I am sure, your situation within the faculty has been strengthened greatly (certainly vis-a-vis Japanese and Chinese studies, I would think), and thanks to you (and the coming of Bisschop), religious studies in Leiden is outflanking my own department here. As to the latter, it has proved in the last 20 years that it is impossible to detach it form the Judo-Christian tradition. The still latently present spirit of the minister prevents a free cosmopolitan view, in which other religions are not (silently) judged inferior. Sometimes I have the feeling that I have cycled all my life against the wind. All the same, I do not envy you. It is an enormous challenge that lies ahead of you. I have only one PhD and one post-doc at the moment, but they already give me headaches. But I am convinced that you will cope with it. Therefore I admire you. Yours, as ever, Hans -- Prof Dr Hans T. Bakker Institute of Indian Studies University of Groningen Oude Boteringestraat 23 9712 GC Groningen the Netherlands tel: +31.(0)50.363.5819 fax: +31.(0)50.363.7263 www.rug.nl/india From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET Wed Mar 10 06:35:39 2010 From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 10 06:35:39 +0000 Subject: Announcement: STIMW Seminar Message-ID: <161227088838.23782.16070679271860970118.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1774 Lines: 60 This year's 'Sanskritic Tradition in the Modern World' Seminar: 27th Annual STIMW Seminar Fri 28 May 2009 10.30 a.m. - 5.00 p.m. Martin Harris Centre, G16, University of Manchester Programme 10.30-10.55 Coffee and registration 11.00-11.40 Dr H Shastry (Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan) 'New trends in conversational Sanskrit' Discussant: Mike Williams 11.45-12.15 Dr Valerie Roebuck (University of Manchester) 'Problems in translating the Dhammapada' 12.15-12.45 Dr Elisa Freschi (University of Rome, La Sapienza) 'Proposals for the study of quotations in Indian philosophical texts' Discussant for both: Jackie Hirst 12.50-1.50 Lunch 2.00-2.45 Prof Mandakranta Bose (University of British Columbia, Canada) 'The sufferings of Sita in Bengali Rama tales and painted scrolls' Discussant: Hazel Collinson 2.50-3.30 Deepa Ganesh (University of Manchester) Dance Chair: Jackie Hirst 3.30-3.55 Tea 4.00-4.40 Dr Anna King (University of Winchester) 'The Glorious Disappearance of Vaishnavas' Discussant: tbc 4.45-5.00 STIMW 2011 For further details and booking form, please see http://www.arts.manchester.ac.uk/stimw Bookings should be made with: Hannah Mansell, STIMW, Conference Administrator Martin Harris Centre for Music and Drama School of Arts, Histories and Cultures University of Manchester, Manchester M13 9PL If you would like to be added to the STIMW mailing list, please email hazel.collinson at postgrad.manchester.ac.uk From pankajaindia at GMAIL.COM Wed Mar 10 11:19:57 2010 From: pankajaindia at GMAIL.COM (Pankaj_Jain) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 10 11:19:57 +0000 Subject: This Summer: Sanskrit and "Bollywood" Online Courses from NC State University Message-ID: <161227088840.23782.10670297818677282605.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 951 Lines: 33 Hello and Namaste, Please share the following info with anyone interested: I am offering three online courses this summer (May-June 2010) from NC State's distance education program, each worth three university credits that can be transferred to any other university: Elementary Sanskrit 101: http://delta.ncsu.edu/apps/coursedetail/index.php?id=FL:295::601:SUM1:2010 Elementary Sanskrit 102: http://delta.ncsu.edu/apps/coursedetail/index.php?id=FL:295::601:SUM2:2010 "Bollywood":Films and Religions of South Asia: http://delta.ncsu.edu/apps/coursedetail/index.php?id=FL:295::602:SUM2:2010 Thanks and regards, Pankaj -------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Pankaj Jain ???? ??? Teaching Assistant Professor Department of Foreign Languages and Literatures Department of Philosophy and Religious Studies Science, Technology & Society Program North Carolina State University http://fll.chass.ncsu.edu/faculty_staff/pjain5 From r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG Wed Mar 10 03:44:25 2010 From: r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 10 16:44:25 +1300 Subject: DIGITAL RESOURCE> Update on Philologica Indica et Buddhica Message-ID: <161227088836.23782.13603580477922042732.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1305 Lines: 47 Dear Colleagues, Many of you know that for some time I've been working on the development of the SARIT Project. I've enjoyed this work but it's meant that the growth of Indica et Buddhica has been slower than I'd like. Now, having recently released Christian Wedemeyer's _Cary?mel?pakaprad?pa_, I'll be leaving the SARIT Project at the end of this month. This will free me to devote more time to Philologica Indica et Buddhica, a textual analysis platform online since mid 2006: Philologica Indica et Buddhica http://philologica.indica-et-buddhica.org/top.shtml Philologica already provides a variety of texts for Classical Indian and Buddhist Studies: Philologica Indica et Buddhica :: Digital texts available http://philologica.indica-et-buddhica.org/available.shtml The emphasis will now turn to publishing digital editions reflecting recent developments in text critical reasearch. The aim is to make editions that currently appear in print or are embedded in doctorates freely available. Interested authors, editors and publishers are asked to contact me for details. Best regards, Richard Mahoney -- Richard MAHONEY Littledene, Bay Road, OXFORD 7430, NZ PO Box 25, OXFORD 7443 +64 3 312 1699 / +64 275 829 986 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org http://indica-et-buddhica.org From rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Thu Mar 11 18:20:23 2010 From: rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Richard Salomon) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 10 10:20:23 -0800 Subject: Raghuvamsa Message-ID: <161227088846.23782.8509255210703001864.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 541 Lines: 17 Dear Harunaga, I hope all is well with you; and, once again, thanks for your hospitality when I was in Hamburg in December -- though I'm sorry I couldn't accept your offer of more hospitality, due to lack of time. When we met there you mentioned that you might be able to provide me with some sort of copy (hard or PDF) of your Raghuvamsa book which, shockingly, we don't have in our library here. As I intend to use it for a kavya course next quarter, it would be great to have one, if it's still available. Thanks again, Rich From rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Thu Mar 11 18:27:33 2010 From: rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Richard Salomon) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 10 10:27:33 -0800 Subject: Raghuvamsa Message-ID: <161227088848.23782.1356980904887361248.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 852 Lines: 31 Sorry for the personal message sent to the list by mistake (again). Please disregard. Rich Salomon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Salomon" To: Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:20 AM Subject: Raghuvamsa > Dear Harunaga, > > I hope all is well with you; and, once again, thanks for your hospitality > when I was in Hamburg in December -- though I'm sorry I couldn't accept > your offer of more hospitality, due to lack of time. > > When we met there you mentioned that you might be able to provide me with > some sort of copy (hard or PDF) of your Raghuvamsa book which, shockingly, > we don't have in our library here. As I intend to use it for a kavya > course next quarter, it would be great to have one, if it's still > available. > > Thanks again, > > Rich From pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK Thu Mar 11 13:13:02 2010 From: pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK (Peter Flugel) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 10 13:13:02 +0000 Subject: Book Launch Message-ID: <161227088842.23782.10924846124054401593.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1178 Lines: 47 Book Launch: Ludwig Alsdorf. THE HISTORY OF VEGETARIANISM AND COW-VENERATION IN INDIA. Translated from German by Bal Patil. Revised by Nichola Hayton and edited with additional notes, a bibliography and four appendices by Willem B. Boll?e. Routledge Advances in Jaina Studies Vol. 3. Series Editor: Peter Fl?gel. Oxon & New York: Routledge, 2010. ISBN10: 0-415-54824-1, ISBN13: 978-0-415-54824-3 CONTENTS Ludwig Alsdorf Contribution to the History of Vegetarianism and Cow-veneration in India Appendix I Jan C. Heesterman "Review." Appendix II Hanns-Peter Schmidt. "The Origin of Ahi?s?." Appendix III Hanns-Peter Schmidt. "Ahi?s? and Rebirth." Appendix IV: Hiralal R. Kapadia. "Prohibition of Flesh-eating in Jainism." SOAS Brunei Gallery Lecture Theatre, 18 March 2010, 6pm Before the Annual Jaina Lecture, Followed by a Reception All Welcome! -- Dr Peter Fl?gel Chair, Centre of Jaina Studies Department of the Study of Religions Faculty of Arts and Humanities School of Oriental and African Studies University of London Thornhaugh Street Russell Square London WC1H OXG Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776 E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 11 15:21:48 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 10 16:21:48 +0100 Subject: upodghata In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088844.23782.9673905222648670092.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1904 Lines: 66 I have a copy of the *Cikits?kalik?*, edited and translated by P. V. Sharma. It does contain your verse, and I am sending you separately a PDF scan of the relevant pages. It reads: tath? cokta? -- "upodgh?ta? pada? caiva pad?rtha? padavigraha? | c?lan? pratyavasth?ne vy?khy? tantrasya ?a?vidh? ||" tatra upodgh?ta? ??strasamutth?nasambandh?bhidheyaprayojan?ni | after which it goes on to another citation from another author, probably V?gbha?a. Details of Candra?a and his date in Meulenbeld, History of Indian Medical Literature, IIA, p.122-25. Probably fl. ca. 900-1050. Best, Dr Dominik Wujastyk Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Vienna Austria -- long term email address: wujastyk at gmail.com PGP key: http://wujastyk.net/pgp.html On 8 March 2010 11:55, petra kieffer-P?lz wrote: > Dear All, > > I am in search of a parallel in Sanskrit for the following verse from the > Vajirabuddhi??k? > > upoggh?to pada? c' eva padattho padaviggaho > codan? pratyavajj?na? by?khy? tantassa chabbiddh? > > The six terms as given in this verse do not tally with the standard terms > (sambandha, pada, padattha, padaviggaha, codan?, parih?ra) given in the P?li > literature from ca. the tenth century onwards as the categories relevant for > writers of commentaries. Words like upoggh?ta, pratyavajj?na, vy?khy? used > in this verse make it probable that Vajirabuddhi based himself on some > Sanskrit source. > > Below are the terms for which alternatives are used in P?li literature: > > upoggh?ta = sambandha = nid?na? = nidassana? > codan? = anuyoga = c?lan? > parih?ra = paccupa??h?na? = pratyavajj?na? > > > Any suggestions are welcome. > Petra Kieffer-P?lz > > ************** > Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz > Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2 > 99423 Weimar > Germany > Tel. 03643/770447 > kiepue at t-online.de > From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Fri Mar 12 16:38:27 2010 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 10 17:38:27 +0100 Subject: GRETIL update #365 Message-ID: <161227088850.23782.10554251688674502361.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 993 Lines: 35 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Vasubandhu: Abhidharmakosabhasya Vasubandhu: Abhidharmakosa, Karikas (revised) Visnudharmottara-Purana, Adhy. 2,217: Atharvavidhikathana [=Atharvavidhana] Visnudharmottara-Purana, Adhy. 3,343-353 (plain text and analytic version) __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK Sat Mar 13 13:41:09 2010 From: pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK (Peter Flugel) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 10 13:41:09 +0000 Subject: Jaina Studies - Newsletter of the Centre of Jaina Studies Vol. 5 2010 Message-ID: <161227088852.23782.12296539502743510998.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 449 Lines: 20 Jaina Studies - Newsletter of the Centre of Jaina Studies Vol. 5 2010 http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies/newsletter/file57740.pdf -- Dr Peter Fl?gel Chair, Centre of Jaina Studies Department of the Study of Religions Faculty of Arts and Humanities School of Oriental and African Studies University of London Thornhaugh Street Russell Square London WC1H OXG Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776 E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies From fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Mar 13 19:29:43 2010 From: fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM (Benjamin Fleming) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 10 14:29:43 -0500 Subject: History and Material Culture in Asian Religions - Update Message-ID: <161227088857.23782.8541498843242287991.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4623 Lines: 151 Dear List Members, Please see below, the updated and finalized schedule for the History and Material Culture in Asian Religions conference being held at the Penn Museum on March 21st - March 22nd in Philadelphia. The new link to the conference website is: http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~bfleming/material_culture/ Best Wishes, Benjamin Fleming __________________________________________ HISTORY AND MATERIAL CULTURE IN ASIAN RELIGIONS March 21-22, 2010, University of Pennsylvania Penn Museum, Classroom 2 (Please use Kress entrance.) * Sponsored by the Dept. of Religious Studies, Center for Ancient Studies, South Asia Center, Center for East Asian Studies, Penn Museum, Mellon Cross-Cultural Diversity Fund, University Research Foundation, and the Oriental Club of Philadelphia. * All events are free and open to the public. SUNDAY MARCH 20th 9:00-9:20am ? Welcome & Introductory Comments 9:20am?12:00noon - Session I: The Materiality of Writing: Text as Artifact / Chair: Paul Goldin (University of Pennsylvania) Dirk Meyer (Oxford University), ?Bamboo and the Production of Philosophy: A Hypothesis about a Shift in Writing and Thought in Early China? Jinah Kim (Vanderbilt University/Institute for Advanced Study), ?Animating the Dharma: 3D World of Medieval Buddhist books in South Asia? Travis Zadeh (Haverford College), ?An Ingestible Scripture: Early Debates on Touching, Dissolving, and Eating the Qur?an? Benjamin J. Fleming (University of Pennsylvania), ?Buddhists and Brahmins under the Reign of ?ricandra: New Evidence from Copperplate Inscriptions? 1:00?3:00 pm - Session II: Rethinking Religious Histories / Chair: Deven Patel (University of Pennsylvania) Shayne Clarke (McMaster University), ?Motherhood amidst the Sisterhood: Reading Inscriptional Evidence in Light of Buddhist Monastic Law Codes? Amy Holmes-Tagchungdarpa (University of Alabama), ?St?pa Renovation as a Trope of Authority in Asian Societies: Three Case Studies from the Kathmandu Valley? Kevin Bond (University of Regina), ?Marketing Miracles: Buddhism, Commercialism, and Entertainment in Early Modern Japan? 3:00?4:00pm - Coffee Break / Gallery Tour, Steve Lang (Asian Keeper, Penn Museum) 4:00?6:00pm - Session III: Between Image and Text / Chair: Michael Meister (University of Pennsylvania) Shaman Hatley (Concordia University), ?Goddesses in Text and Stone: Temples of the Yogin?s in Light of the Pur??as and Tantric ?aiva Literature? Jamal Elias (University of Pennsylvania), ?Icons and Idols in the Islamic Past: Seeing the Religious Image in Historical Account? Justin McDaniel (University of Pennsylvania), ?Beyond Narrative: Murals and Material Culture in Thailand? MONDAY, MARCH 22nd 9:00?11:40 am - Session IV: Relic, Text, and Icon / Chair: Frank Chance (University of Pennsylvania) James Robson (Harvard University), ?Things Inside of Things: On the Materials Found Inside of Chinese Icons? Tamara Sears (Yale University), ?Sculpting the Ascetic Body: Corporeality and Ephemerality in Early Medieval ?aivism? Hank Glassman (Haverford College), ?Ninsh?, Ry?hen, and the 25 Bodhisattvas of Hakone? Gudrun B?hnemann (University of Wisconsin-Madison), ?On the Iconography and Date of the Golden Window in Patan? 1:00?3:00 pm - Session V: Material Cultures in Contact: Trade and Religious Exchange / Chair: Victor Mair (University of Pennsylvania) Richard Mann (Carleton University), ?The Rise of Mahasena: Skanda, Vishakha and Mahasena on the Gold Coinage of Huvishka? Jason Neelis (University of Florida/Ruhr-Universit?t Bochum), ?Gandharan Materials and Manuscripts from Contact Zones between South Asia and Central Asia: Crucial Evidence for Patterns of Buddhist Transmission? Annette Yoshiko Reed (University of Pennsylvania), ?Eurasian Trade and the Connections between ?West? and ?East?: Reconsidering Early Christian References to Asian Religions? 3:15?4:00pm ? Concluding Discussion and Reception in Mosaic Gallery For further information: http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~bfleming/material_culture/ http://www.penn.museum/ -- Dr. Benjamin Fleming Visiting Scholar, Dept. of Religious Studies, University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street, Claudia Cohen Hall, #234 Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A. Telephone - 215-746-7792 http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~bfleming _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_1 From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sat Mar 13 15:56:00 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 10 16:56:00 +0100 Subject: Fwd: Sanskrit Manuscripts in South Indian Scripts: the van Manen Collection In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088855.23782.17316816869651251812.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 995 Lines: 31 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Rath, S. Date: 9 March 2010 00:35 Subject: Sanskrit Manuscripts in South Indian Scripts: the van Manen Collection Dear Dominik, As you know that I have been working on the south indian manuscripts of the Johan van Manen collection, Leiden. At present I would like to make the complete list of titles of the texts (588) found in this collection available to those interested. Several new texts have been identified which were not in the preliminary hand-list published by H. 't Hart in 1992. My complete catalogue which gives more detailed information on the manuscripts is under preparation and will be published soon. Could you please forward the following link to the Indology List ? http://www.iias.nl/profile/saraju-rath With thanks and best regards, Saraju Dr. Saraju Rath International Institute for Asian Studies (IIAS) Postbox no. 9500 2300 RA Leiden The Netherlands Tel. 0031-71-5274147 email: s.rath at iias.nl From eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM Sun Mar 14 11:04:44 2010 From: eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM (Dean Michael Anderson) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 10 04:04:44 -0700 Subject: Roth Article Needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088861.23782.11731558176291790537.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 618 Lines: 9 I was sent this email and it's outside my area of focus by 1-2000 years so I thought I'd pass on the request. Of course, the questioner seems to have some misunderstandings about the nature of the Vedanta-Buddhist dialog over the centuries but I'm sure y'all or your sources will deal with that. Best, Dean Dean Michael AndersonEast West Cultural Institute Quote:Do you know of any references or books that discuss the reported debates long ago between?Shankara?and?Buddhists, reasons that the Buddhists in part left?India?for lands further east, as well as comparative analyses of?Advaita?and Buddhist teachings? From eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM Sun Mar 14 11:17:07 2010 From: eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM (Dean Michael Anderson) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 10 04:17:07 -0700 Subject: Roth Article Needed In-Reply-To: <917365.38222.qm@web62408.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088864.23782.13533787528891961481.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 167 Lines: 7 I apologize for sending that earlier message without renaming the Subject line. I resent it with the correct subject header: Buddhism and Advaita. Sincerely, Dean From eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM Sun Mar 14 11:19:20 2010 From: eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM (Dean Michael Anderson) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 10 04:19:20 -0700 Subject: Buddhism and Advaita In-Reply-To: <281750.14802.qm@web62402.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088866.23782.11103734360183826678.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 688 Lines: 11 Here is the resent message with the correct subject header: I was sent this email and it's outside my area of focus by about 1000-2000 years so I thought I'd pass on the request.? Of course, the questioner seems to have some misunderstandings about the nature of the Vedanta-Buddhist dialog over the centuries but I'm sure y'all or your sources will deal with that. Best, Dean Dean Michael AndersonEast West Cultural Institute Quote:Do you know of any references or books that discuss the reported debates long ago between?Shankara?and?Buddhists, reasons that the Buddhists in part left?India?for lands further east, as well as comparative analyses of?Advaita?and Buddhist teachings? From fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU Sun Mar 14 13:13:06 2010 From: fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU (FRITS STAAL) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 10 06:13:06 -0700 Subject: Buddhism and Advaita In-Reply-To: <814402.15247.qm@web62402.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088868.23782.15723275446340023588.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1578 Lines: 44 I can mention only one specific point from the debate due to the famous Sankara. It has nothing (or very little and very indirectly) to do with the reasons for Buddhists to leave India. (And incidentally: I am not a follower of S. nor am I a Buddhist). You have to find someone who knows the texts and ask him about Sankara's commentary on the Brahmasutra's words: anusmRteSca "and on account of remembrance". In the commentary S. says: I can remember what I saw yesterday, but I cannot remember what you saw yesterday. The implication is: Buddhists cannot explain remembrance or memory. (I am familiar with some Buddhist counterarguments and do not think they have refuted S's point.) The passage is quoted in my book "Discovering the Vedas" which has a chapter on "The Vedas and Buddhism". greetings, > Here is the resent message with the correct subject header: > I was sent this email and it's outside my area of focus by about 1000-2000 > years so I thought I'd pass on the request.? > Of course, the questioner seems to have some misunderstandings about the > nature of the Vedanta-Buddhist dialog over the centuries but I'm sure > y'all or your sources will deal with that. > Best, > Dean > Dean Michael AndersonEast West Cultural Institute > > Quote:Do you know of any references or books that discuss the reported > debates long ago between?Shankara?and?Buddhists, reasons that the > Buddhists in part left?India?for lands further east, as well as > comparative analyses of?Advaita?and Buddhist teachings? > Frits Staal http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/staal From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM Sun Mar 14 08:41:39 2010 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 10 08:41:39 +0000 Subject: Roth Article Needed Message-ID: <161227088859.23782.4768663262062370165.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 722 Lines: 23 Dear Colleagues, Does anybody happen to have a copy of this to hand: Die Sprache der ?ltesten buddhistischen ?berlieferung (The language of the earliest Buddhist tradition) Ed. Heinz Bechert. I do not have immediate access to this at the moment, but I need to see the paper included therein by Gustav Roth: "Particular features of the language of the ?rya-Mah?s??ghika-Lokottarav?dins and their importance for early Buddhist tradition". If it is not too onerous, would anybody be very kind and scan & send this paper to me ~ I do not think it is very long so it shoudl not take up too much of your valuable time. I shall, of course, be very grateful and indebted etc as always ! Best wishes, Stephen Hodge From andrew.nicholson at STONYBROOK.EDU Mon Mar 15 01:19:55 2010 From: andrew.nicholson at STONYBROOK.EDU (Andrew Nicholson) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 10 21:19:55 -0400 Subject: Buddhism and Advaita In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088874.23782.17474091124293002865.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1649 Lines: 38 Three resources on the topic of Buddhism and Vedanta: Richard King, Early Advaita Vedanta and Buddhism: The Mahayana Context of the Gaudapada-Karika (Albany: State University of New York Press, 1995). A thoughtful discussion of the ways in which Advaita Vedanta, particularly Sankara's teacher's teacher Gaudapada, was influenced by and reconfigured the ideas of Madhyamaka Buddhism. Hajime Nakamura, A History of Early Vedanta Philosophy: Part One, pp. 131-265 (Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass, 1983). Contains a review of Buddhist accounts of Vedanta, incl. summaries of Bhavaviveka, Santaraksita, and Kamalasila. Sankara's Brahma Sutra Bhasya, sections 2.2.19-32, where he attacks 3 types of Buddhism he calls Sarvastivada, Vijnanavada, and Sunyavada. A useful summary appears in Eliot Deutsch (ed.), The Essential Vedanta: A New Source Book of Advaita Vedanta, pp. 126-39 (Bloomington: World Wisdom, 2004). Prof. Staal's point bears repeating--Sankara's Advaita Vedanta had little if any role to play in the decline of Buddhism in India. The idea that Sankara somehow singlehandedly defeated the Buddhists is a fantasy expressed in late medieval hagiographies. Historical evidence suggests that he was a relatively minor player on the Indian intellectual scene during his lifetime, and only achieved the type of popularity he enjoys today after the Buddhists were no longer present. With best wishes, Andrew ______________________________________________ Andrew J. Nicholson Assistant Professor Department of Asian and Asian American Studies Stony Brook University Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343 USA Tel: (631) 632-4030 Fax: (631) 632-4098 From franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Sun Mar 14 21:25:31 2010 From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE (franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 10 22:25:31 +0100 Subject: Buddhism and Advaita In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088871.23782.154113516304403682.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1840 Lines: 53 For an early phase of the debate see Olle Quarnstrom's translation of the Vedanta chapter of Bhavya's Madhyamakahrdaya. Best wishes, Eli Franco Zitat von FRITS STAAL : > I can mention only one specific point from the debate due to the famous > Sankara. It has nothing (or very little and very indirectly) to do with > the reasons for Buddhists to leave India. (And incidentally: I am not a > follower of S. nor am I a Buddhist). > > You have to find someone who knows the texts and ask him about Sankara's > commentary on the Brahmasutra's words: anusmRteSca "and on account of > remembrance". > > In the commentary S. says: I can remember what I saw yesterday, but I > cannot remember what you saw yesterday. > > The implication is: Buddhists cannot explain remembrance or memory. (I am > familiar with some Buddhist counterarguments and do not think they have > refuted S's point.) > > The passage is quoted in my book "Discovering the Vedas" which has a > chapter on "The Vedas and Buddhism". > > greetings, > >> Here is the resent message with the correct subject header: >> I was sent this email and it's outside my area of focus by about 1000-2000 >> years so I thought I'd pass on the request.? >> Of course, the questioner seems to have some misunderstandings about the >> nature of the Vedanta-Buddhist dialog over the centuries but I'm sure >> y'all or your sources will deal with that. >> Best, >> Dean >> Dean Michael AndersonEast West Cultural Institute >> >> Quote:Do you know of any references or books that discuss the reported >> debates long ago between?Shankara?and?Buddhists, reasons that the >> Buddhists in part left?India?for lands further east, as well as >> comparative analyses of?Advaita?and Buddhist teachings? >> > > > Frits Staal > > http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/staal > > From vbd203 at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Tue Mar 16 12:14:02 2010 From: vbd203 at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (victor davella) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 10 08:14:02 -0400 Subject: trivalI in compounds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088878.23782.2125083086313659443.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 938 Lines: 43 Hello, Vamana has something to say about the word in his Kavyalamkarasutra with a Paninian citation, but I'm not sure if its exactly what you are looking for. This is the text from GRETIL: *trival??abda? siddha? sa?j?? cet // VKal_5,2.14 [*VKal_5,2.13] //* trival??abda? siddho yadi sa?j?? / *diksakhye sa.?j??y?m*(P?_2,1.50) iti sa?j??y?meva sam?savidh?n?t //14// All the Best, Victor Phd Candidate University of Chicago SALC On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:48 AM, Oliver Fallon wrote: > Dear List Members, > > Can anyone help finding a reference in Paninian literature for the > lengthening of the final vowel of trivali to trivalI in compounds? > > MW says "f. in comp. the 3 folds over a woman's navel (regarded as a > beauty) > VarB?S. lxx , 5 ?itus. GarP." > > I have looked in P. 6.3.114-139, which appears to be the relevant section, > but may have missed something. > > With thanks, > Oliver > From opfallon at YAHOO.COM Tue Mar 16 11:48:11 2010 From: opfallon at YAHOO.COM (Oliver Fallon) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 10 11:48:11 +0000 Subject: trivalI in compounds Message-ID: <161227088876.23782.3520722913306146731.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 405 Lines: 16 Dear List Members, Can anyone help finding a reference in Paninian literature for the lengthening of the final vowel of trivali to trivalI in compounds? MW says "f. in comp. the 3 folds over a woman's navel (regarded as a beauty) VarBṛS. lxx , 5 Ṛitus. GarP." I have looked in P. 6.3.114-139, which appears to be the relevant section, but may have missed something. With thanks, Oliver From vbd203 at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Tue Mar 16 18:44:26 2010 From: vbd203 at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (victor davella) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 10 12:44:26 -0600 Subject: trivalI in compounds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088889.23782.8318594872669331996.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 870 Lines: 29 Dear Oliver, Right, it didn't seem exactly what you wanted, but it would seem that since it's not in the sense of a name, Vamana would consider it incorrect or not pure usage, so we wouldn't expect to find a Paninian explanation for such a form with the long i (not in the sense of a name) in or out of compound. Unfortunately I am away from a library and have only limited resources. Do any of the commentators make any comment? Best, Victor On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 8:05 AM, Oliver Fallon wrote: > Thank you Victor, > > That is interesting, and would be more so if the occurrence I have were a > proper name, but it is not what I'm looking for. > > I found it in the ZRGgAra-zataka of BhartRhari v.78, where its usage is > unexceptional. > > I would simply like to know why the final vowel lengthens if trivali is in > a > compound. > From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Tue Mar 16 13:01:44 2010 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 10 14:01:44 +0100 Subject: GRETIL update #366 Message-ID: <161227088880.23782.8575741007349747686.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1114 Lines: 37 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Bhiksunivinaya Ganapatihrdaya-Dharani Vimalamitra(?): Abhidharmadipa, with auto(?)-commentary Vibhasaprabhasavrtti Vimalamitra(?): Abhidharmadipa, Karikas extracted from the commented text Vimalamitra(?): Abhidharmadipa, Karikas 1-383 (alternative version) [relaunched] __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From opfallon at YAHOO.COM Tue Mar 16 14:05:16 2010 From: opfallon at YAHOO.COM (Oliver Fallon) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 10 14:05:16 +0000 Subject: trivalI in compounds Message-ID: <161227088882.23782.9907301414935451236.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 321 Lines: 13 Thank you Victor, That is interesting, and would be more so if the occurrence I have were a proper name, but it is not what I'm looking for. I found it in the ZRGgAra-zataka of BhartRhari v.78, where its usage is unexceptional. I would simply like to know why the final vowel lengthens if trivali is in a compound. From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM Tue Mar 16 17:20:34 2010 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 10 17:20:34 +0000 Subject: Roth Article Message-ID: <161227088885.23782.9372883280815634486.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 83 Lines: 6 I have now got hold of a copy of the Roth article ~ many thanks. Stephen Hodge From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Tue Mar 16 18:40:15 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 10 00:10:15 +0530 Subject: trivalI in compounds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088887.23782.3520657969484787202.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 840 Lines: 32 Sometimes it appeared to me that the long ? here is a post-P??inian development. See particularly the P?m?diga?a on 5.2.100. Best DB --- On Tue, 16/3/10, Oliver Fallon wrote: From: Oliver Fallon Subject: trivalI in compounds To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 16 March, 2010, 5:18 PM Dear List Members, Can anyone help finding a reference in Paninian literature for the lengthening of the final vowel of trivali to trivalI in compounds? MW says "f. in comp. the 3 folds over a woman's navel (regarded as a beauty) VarB?S. lxx , 5 ?itus. GarP." I have looked in P. 6.3.114-139, which appears to be the relevant section, but may have missed something. With thanks, Oliver The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM Wed Mar 17 17:30:26 2010 From: jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM (girish jha) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 10 10:30:26 -0700 Subject: trivalI in compounds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088898.23782.3045113849735142731.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1147 Lines: 35 Dear? Indologists, The Sanskrit words,both Vali and Trivali are synonymous.It ends?in short /i/.According to the Amarakos?a ,valih? pr?n?yan?gaje striy?m.Vali? means ?the? three lines? in? shrunk? stomach.Here a gan?as?tra(No.49)on 4.1.45 ?itah?? pr?n?yan.g?t? applies.n??s.? suffix is prescribed ?after? a Pr?tipadika meaning? an organ of a living being and ending in short /i/.Consequently vali + n?is? = val?.The same view has been expressed in the Ny?sa and Padama?jar?? too. Thanks, GIRISH K.JHA SANSKRIT,PATNA UNIV,INDIA --- On Tue, 3/16/10, Oliver Fallon wrote: From: Oliver Fallon Subject: trivalI in compounds To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 4:48 AM Dear List Members, Can anyone help finding a reference in Paninian literature for the lengthening of the final vowel of trivali to trivalI in compounds? MW says "f. in comp. the 3 folds over a woman's navel (regarded as a beauty) VarB?S. lxx , 5 ?itus. GarP." I have looked in P. 6.3.114-139, which appears to be the relevant section, but may have missed something. With thanks, Oliver From opfallon at YAHOO.COM Wed Mar 17 10:39:02 2010 From: opfallon at YAHOO.COM (Oliver Fallon) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 10 10:39:02 +0000 Subject: trivalI in compounds Message-ID: <161227088891.23782.16136506873608125382.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 723 Lines: 18 Yes, perhaps it is a post-Paninian usage, or even a Prakritic usage. It might have become accepted usage with ref. to P. 2.1.50 as Victor has pointed out, even though it is not a proper noun. If it is Prakritic, a clue might be given by Bhaṭṭik&#257;vya 13.1 (where the language is simultaneously Sanskrit and Prakrit) "kiraNa-AvalI-sa-vilAsA". I do not understand the commentator Jayamaṅgala's reference: ""kRdikArAdaktinaH" ity anena Avalir AvalIty ubhayam api saMskRta-prAkRtayoH prayujyate" Where is "kRdikArAdaktinaH" from? I only have DhanasAragaNi's commentary on BhartRhari (ed. Kosambi), which is not much help. Does anyone else know of any more useful commentaries? with thanks, Oliver From jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM Wed Mar 17 18:07:19 2010 From: jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM (girish jha) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 10 11:07:19 -0700 Subject: trivalI in compounds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088901.23782.4125059200522739451.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 769 Lines: 32 Dear colleagues, As far as trivalii in compounds is concerned,it makes an uttarapadalopin?Karmadhaaraya Compound :Triparimitaa valii trivalii. GIRISH K.JHA? ?Tue, 3/16/10, Oliver Fallon wrote: From: Oliver Fallon Subject: trivalI in compounds To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 4:48 AM Dear List Members, Can anyone help finding a reference in Paninian literature for the lengthening of the final vowel of trivali to trivalI in compounds? MW says "f. in comp. the 3 folds over a woman's navel (regarded as a beauty) VarB?S. lxx , 5 ?itus. GarP." I have looked in P. 6.3.114-139, which appears to be the relevant section, but may have missed something. With thanks, Oliver From rotaru.julieta at GMAIL.COM Wed Mar 17 11:33:01 2010 From: rotaru.julieta at GMAIL.COM (Julieta Rotaru) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 10 13:33:01 +0200 Subject: CEAAS, Bucharest: Intensive Course in Codicology Message-ID: <161227088893.23782.6147590120065124624.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1650 Lines: 93 Dear Colleagues, I have the pleasure to announce that the Centre for Eurasiatic and Afroasiatic Studies (CEAAS) ? Bucharest, will held an Intensive Course in Codicology, with special reference to the Grantha script. We kindly ask you to pass the information enclosed bellow to your students and other interested persons. Thanking you, Julieta Rotaru Lecturer, University of Bucharest Faculty of Foreign Languages and Literature *Title:* History and development of South Indian Scripts (with special reference to *Grantha*). *Course Description*: i. Learning, writing and reading *Grantha* script; ii. Practice with the reading of *Grantha* palm-leaf manuscripts; iii. Concluding session is devoted to the use of manuscripts in current *p?* *?**ha**?**?l?s* in India (with *vaidika* recitation); iv. A certificate will be provided for active and successful participation. *Date*: 14-18 September 2010 *Materials*: to be provided *Subscription*: The course participants will be invited after approval of their brief CV and motivation letter which are to be submitted by July 15 to julieta.rotaru at bmms.ro / s.rath at iias.nl. For the participants rooms have been reserved (in a moderate price) in the Guest House of the University of Bucharest, just 10 minutes from the venue of the course. *Requirement*: basic knowledge in Sanskrit. *Venue*: Centre for Eurasiatic and Afroasiatic Studies (CEAAS) Take Ionescu Street, no. 4, 010354 Bucharest ROMANIA www.bmms.ro phone: + 40 21 216 36 25 *Teacher*: Dr.(Mrs.) Saraju Rath, International Institute for Asian Studies(IIAS), Leiden, The Netherlands From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Wed Mar 17 11:39:15 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 10 17:09:15 +0530 Subject: trivalI in compounds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088896.23782.12799904310842472747.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1083 Lines: 35 Ga?as?tra ?See?4.1.45. Best DB --- On Wed, 17/3/10, Oliver Fallon wrote: From: Oliver Fallon Subject: Re: trivalI in compounds To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 17 March, 2010, 4:09 PM Yes, perhaps it is a post-Paninian usage, or even a Prakritic usage. It might have become accepted usage with ref. to P. 2.1.50 as Victor has pointed out, even though it is not a proper noun. If it is Prakritic, a clue might be given by Bha??ik&#257;vya 13.1 (where the language is simultaneously Sanskrit and Prakrit) "kiraNa-AvalI-sa-vilAsA". I do not understand the commentator Jayama?gala's reference: ""kRdikArAdaktinaH" ity anena Avalir AvalIty ubhayam api saMskRta-prAkRtayoH prayujyate" Where is "kRdikArAdaktinaH" from? I only have DhanasAragaNi's commentary on BhartRhari (ed. Kosambi), which is not much help. Does anyone else know of any more useful commentaries? with thanks, Oliver Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From opfallon at YAHOO.COM Thu Mar 18 17:53:46 2010 From: opfallon at YAHOO.COM (Oliver Fallon) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 10 17:53:46 +0000 Subject: trivalI in compounds Message-ID: <161227088903.23782.10933651706641192811.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 115 Lines: 5 Thank you very much to all who replied. Sutra 4.1.45 and the following varttika very satisfactorily explain it. From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Fri Mar 19 02:54:33 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 10 08:24:33 +0530 Subject: trivalI in compounds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088905.23782.9832810224048081124.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 670 Lines: 22 Just a welcome note. In fact the s?tra quoted in the Jayamangal? and the ones that precede and follow are Ga?as?tras. They are not known to have been composed by K?ty?yana, the author of the V?rttikas Best DB --- On Thu, 18/3/10, Oliver Fallon wrote: From: Oliver Fallon Subject: Re: trivalI in compounds To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Thursday, 18 March, 2010, 11:23 PM Thank you very much to all who replied. Sutra 4.1.45 and the following varttika very satisfactorily explain it. Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Fri Mar 19 03:21:18 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 10 08:51:18 +0530 Subject: trivalI in compounds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088907.23782.16297221444653071766.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1107 Lines: 35 I forgot to mention? that Mallin?tha?s Sarvapath?n? is quite elaborate. Best DB --- On Wed, 17/3/10, Oliver Fallon wrote: From: Oliver Fallon Subject: Re: trivalI in compounds To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 17 March, 2010, 4:09 PM Yes, perhaps it is a post-Paninian usage, or even a Prakritic usage. It might have become accepted usage with ref. to P. 2.1.50 as Victor has pointed out, even though it is not a proper noun. If it is Prakritic, a clue might be given by Bha??ik&#257;vya 13.1 (where the language is simultaneously Sanskrit and Prakrit) "kiraNa-AvalI-sa-vilAsA". I do not understand the commentator Jayama?gala's reference: ""kRdikArAdaktinaH" ity anena Avalir AvalIty ubhayam api saMskRta-prAkRtayoH prayujyate" Where is "kRdikArAdaktinaH" from? I only have DhanasAragaNi's commentary on BhartRhari (ed. Kosambi), which is not much help. Does anyone else know of any more useful commentaries? with thanks, Oliver The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Fri Mar 19 03:24:32 2010 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 10 08:54:32 +0530 Subject: trivalI in compounds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088909.23782.10912989601980873513.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 749 Lines: 27 On the issue of the "proper name"... Trivalii can be a sa.mj~naa in as much as it names one particular group of three folds, namely that at the waist, and not just any group of three folds, for instance on the forehead or behind the knee. This is presumably Vaamana's point when he applies Paa.nini's rule diksa.mkhye sa.mj~naayaam (2.1.50). On 16 Mar 2010, at 19:35, Oliver Fallon wrote: > Thank you Victor, > > That is interesting, and would be more so if the occurrence I have > were a > proper name, but it is not what I'm looking for. > > I found it in the ZRGgAra-zataka of BhartRhari v.78, where its usage > is > unexceptional. > > I would simply like to know why the final vowel lengthens if trivali > is in a > compound. From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Fri Mar 19 05:54:55 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 10 11:24:55 +0530 Subject: trivalI in compounds In-Reply-To: <261405.98945.qm@web57707.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088912.23782.638154787369855855.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1975 Lines: 50 After Jay?ditya?s explanation of P.2.1.51 taddhit?rthottarapadasam?h?re ca when, of a compound?formed after 2.1.50 the final meaning is that of a taddhita suffix or when a third word (uttarapada) follows the compound or when an ensemble is meant one gets a tatpuru?a compound. This uttarapada compound is different from the uttarapadalopin compound commonly illustrated with si?h?sana ?lion (marked) ?seat ?ie a throne?. Naturally trilokan?tha (Kum?rasambhava 5.77) has been explained by Mallin?tha as an uttarapada compound. This is implied also in the explanation of trilokasaundarya ?(5.41). trival? ?is neither an uttarapadalopin nor an uttarapada compound. An ensemble is meant. Naturally 2.1.50 and 51 are sufficient for forming the compound without invoking the concept of uttarapadalopin.? The ga?as?tra 50 appended to 4.1.45 takes care of the long ? of words like trival?. Best DB --- On Wed, 17/3/10, girish jha wrote: From: girish jha Subject: Re: trivalI in compounds To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 17 March, 2010, 11:37 PM Dear colleagues, As far as trivalii in compounds is concerned,it makes an uttarapadalopin?Karmadhaaraya Compound :Triparimitaa valii trivalii. GIRISH K.JHA? ?Tue, 3/16/10, Oliver Fallon wrote: From: Oliver Fallon Subject: trivalI in compounds To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 4:48 AM Dear List Members, Can anyone help finding a reference in Paninian literature for the lengthening of the final vowel of trivali to trivalI in compounds? MW says "f. in comp. the 3 folds over a woman's navel (regarded as a beauty) VarB?S. lxx , 5 ?itus. GarP." I have looked in P. 6.3.114-139, which appears to be the relevant section, but may have missed something. With thanks, Oliver The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM Sat Mar 20 18:15:45 2010 From: jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM (girish jha) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 10 11:15:45 -0700 Subject: trivalI in compounds In-Reply-To: <145184.62171.qm@web8601.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088914.23782.12016962461457505802.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3385 Lines: 76 ? Dear colleagues, It is noteworthy that? trival? can?t be formed as a sam?h?ra Compound.? If we try to form it by P?n.ini? 2.1.51 taddhit?rthottarapadasam?h?re ca the derivation will be tisr.n.?m val?nam sam?h?rah. 1.The sam?sa is ?ordained by 2.1.51, 2.it is characterized as ?dvigu by 2.1.52 sankhy?purvo dviguh.After that 3.it takes singular by 2.4.1 dvigur ekavacanam and ??neuter gender by 2.4.17 sa napumsakam. As a result ?trivali a neuter ?gender Compound word ending in short /i/ is formed. Now we cannot replace the short vowel of trivali by long one by any of the three gan?as?tras relating to 4.1.45? bahv?dibhya? ca? as the sutra ?4.1.14 anupasarjan?t ??recurs? there.???? vali is an upasarjana as a compound form.We can?t convert it into a feminine form as only a dvigu? ending in /a/ can be in feminine by prescribing ??n??p? by 4.1.21 dvigoh.? As such we will have to convert vali into val? and then trival? may be formed by? the v?rttika ??kap?rthivadinam siddhaya? uttarapadalopasyopasamkhy?nam[s?kapriyah p?rthivah ??kap?rthivah]and the derivation will be triparimit? val? ?trival?. GIRISH K. JHA SANSKRIT,PATNA UNIVERSITY --- On Thu, 3/18/10, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: trivalI in compounds To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 10:54 PM After Jay?ditya?s explanation of P.2.1.51 taddhit?rthottarapadasam?h?re ca when, of a compound?formed after 2.1.50 the final meaning is that of a taddhita suffix or when a third word (uttarapada) follows the compound or when an ensemble is meant one gets a tatpuru?a compound. This uttarapada compound is different from the uttarapadalopin compound commonly illustrated with si?h?sana ?lion (marked) ?seat ?ie a throne?. Naturally trilokan?tha (Kum?rasambhava 5.77) has been explained by Mallin?tha as an uttarapada compound. This is implied also in the explanation of trilokasaundarya ?(5.41). trival? ?is neither an uttarapadalopin nor an uttarapada compound. An ensemble is meant. Naturally 2.1.50 and 51 are sufficient for forming the compound without invoking the concept of uttarapadalopin.? The ga?as?tra 50 appended to 4.1.45 takes care of the long ? of words like trival?. Best DB --- On Wed, 17/3/10, girish jha wrote: From: girish jha Subject: Re: trivalI in compounds To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 17 March, 2010, 11:37 PM Dear colleagues, As far as trivalii in compounds is concerned,it makes an uttarapadalopin?Karmadhaaraya Compound :Triparimitaa valii trivalii. GIRISH K.JHA? ?Tue, 3/16/10, Oliver Fallon wrote: From: Oliver Fallon Subject: trivalI in compounds To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 4:48 AM Dear List Members, Can anyone help finding a reference in Paninian literature for the lengthening of the final vowel of trivali to trivalI in compounds? MW says "f. in comp. the 3 folds over a woman's navel (regarded as a beauty) VarB?S. lxx , 5 ?itus. GarP." I have looked in P. 6.3.114-139, which appears to be the relevant section, but may have missed something. With thanks, Oliver ? ? ? The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Sun Mar 21 03:10:57 2010 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 10 20:10:57 -0700 Subject: Use of "World" in invocatory verse Message-ID: <161227088918.23782.16827481129297563385.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 586 Lines: 4 It is customary to use the word "ulakam" -- "world" (probably from Skt. loka) -- in invocatory verses (ka?avu? v??ttu) in Tamil. "World" is also found in some invocations in Sanskrit (e.g. the first verse of the Raghuva??a -- jagata? pitarau). Does anyone know of any articles on this custom? I have a student who needs to research it further. (It's worth noting also that the RV has what is called "avai a?akkam" in Tamil, in which the poet says in the most poetic possible language what a worthless poet he is, something also found commonly in Tamil). -- Thanks -- George Hart From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Sun Mar 21 06:00:13 2010 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 10 23:00:13 -0700 Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" Message-ID: <161227088920.23782.4987350747728781148.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 725 Lines: 22 Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named "aniccha" in any non-Tamil literature? Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)? "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. Later on, the focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would wilt at the contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a slender waist] if she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on. There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a + iccha (a + icchaa - Without Desire/Wish). What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in non-Tamil poetry for such super sensitivity? Thanks and regards, V.S. Rajam < (www.letsgrammar.org)> From h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX Sun Mar 21 14:57:11 2010 From: h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX (Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 10 07:57:11 -0700 Subject: Kalika-purana in e-form In-Reply-To: <71681269182688@web44.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <161227088929.23782.1830593868362001690.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 904 Lines: 31 Dear Madam: Could you fine persona said me what is e-form? I want to help your quest. Lic. M.A. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad Internacional Euroamericana. Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada. Miembro del Instituto de Estudios Filos?ficos de Saltillo A. C. www.uie.edu.es --- El dom 21-mar-10, Viktoria Lyssenko escribi?: > De:: Viktoria Lyssenko > Asunto: Kalika-purana in e-form > A: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Fecha: domingo, 21 de marzo de 2010, 14:44 > Dear Colleagues, > One of my students needs an English translation of > Kalika-purana in e-form. Could anybody help? > Victoria Lysenko, > Research fellow, > Institute of philosophy, > Russian Academy of Sciences > Encuentra las mejores recetas en Yahoo! Cocina. http://mx.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/ From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Sun Mar 21 02:45:07 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 10 08:15:07 +0530 Subject: trivalI in compounds Message-ID: <161227088916.23782.6599594398761900377.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3913 Lines: 98 the following note?had been?sent by me on 17 March in apprehension Best DB ? "Sometimes it appeared to "me that the long ? here is a post-P??inian development. See particularly the P?m?diga?a on 5.2.100. Best DB" --- On Sat, 20/3/10, girish jha wrote: From: girish jha Subject: Re: trivalI in compounds To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Saturday, 20 March, 2010, 11:45 PM ? Dear colleagues, It is noteworthy that? trival? can?t be formed as a sam?h?ra Compound.? If we try to form it by P?n.ini? 2.1.51 taddhit?rthottarapadasam?h?re ca the derivation will be tisr.n.?m val?nam sam?h?rah. 1.The sam?sa is ?ordained by 2.1.51, 2.it is characterized as ?dvigu by 2.1.52 sankhy?purvo dviguh.After that 3.it takes singular by 2.4.1 dvigur ekavacanam and ??neuter gender by 2.4.17 sa napumsakam. As a result ?trivali a neuter ?gender Compound word ending in short /i/ is formed. Now we cannot replace the short vowel of trivali by long one by any of the three gan?as?tras relating to 4.1.45? bahv?dibhya? ca? as the sutra ?4.1.14 anupasarjan?t ??recurs? there.???? vali is an upasarjana as a compound form.We can?t convert it into a feminine form as only a dvigu? ending in /a/ can be in feminine by prescribing ??n??p? by 4.1.21 dvigoh.? As such we will have to convert vali into val? and then trival? may be formed by? the v?rttika ??kap?rthivadinam siddhaya? uttarapadalopasyopasamkhy?nam[s?kapriyah p?rthivah ??kap?rthivah]and the derivation will be triparimit? val? ?trival?. GIRISH K. JHA SANSKRIT,PATNA UNIVERSITY --- On Thu, 3/18/10, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: trivalI in compounds To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 10:54 PM After Jay?ditya?s explanation of P.2.1.51 taddhit?rthottarapadasam?h?re ca when, of a compound?formed after 2.1.50 the final meaning is that of a taddhita suffix or when a third word (uttarapada) follows the compound or when an ensemble is meant one gets a tatpuru?a compound. This uttarapada compound is different from the uttarapadalopin compound commonly illustrated with si?h?sana ?lion (marked) ?seat ?ie a throne?. Naturally trilokan?tha (Kum?rasambhava 5.77) has been explained by Mallin?tha as an uttarapada compound. This is implied also in the explanation of trilokasaundarya ?(5.41). trival? ?is neither an uttarapadalopin nor an uttarapada compound. An ensemble is meant. Naturally 2.1.50 and 51 are sufficient for forming the compound without invoking the concept of uttarapadalopin.? The ga?as?tra 50 appended to 4.1.45 takes care of the long ? of words like trival?. Best DB --- On Wed, 17/3/10, girish jha wrote: From: girish jha Subject: Re: trivalI in compounds To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 17 March, 2010, 11:37 PM Dear colleagues, As far as trivalii in compounds is concerned,it makes an uttarapadalopin?Karmadhaaraya Compound :Triparimitaa valii trivalii. GIRISH K.JHA? ?Tue, 3/16/10, Oliver Fallon wrote: From: Oliver Fallon Subject: trivalI in compounds To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 4:48 AM Dear List Members, Can anyone help finding a reference in Paninian literature for the lengthening of the final vowel of trivali to trivalI in compounds? MW says "f. in comp. the 3 folds over a woman's navel (regarded as a beauty) VarB?S. lxx , 5 ?itus. GarP." I have looked in P. 6.3.114-139, which appears to be the relevant section, but may have missed something. With thanks, Oliver ? ? ? The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Sun Mar 21 12:18:05 2010 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (george thompson) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 10 08:18:05 -0400 Subject: Use of "World" in invocatory verse In-Reply-To: <6C083CC0-D1E9-44CE-9631-3273A9FB84DC@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227088925.23782.632753298521578348.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 939 Lines: 19 Hello George, Regarding the Vedic material, there is Jan Gonda's *Loka: World and Heaven in the Veda* in Verhandelingen der Koninklijke Nederlandse Akad. v. Wetenschappen, Afd. Letterkunde, N.R. -- Deel LXXIII, no. 1 [1966]. Its last chapter touches briefly on some post-Vedic usages. Hope this helps. George Thompson George Hart wrote: >It is customary to use the word "ulakam" -- "world" (probably from Skt. loka) -- in invocatory verses (ka?avu? v??ttu) in Tamil. "World" is also found in some invocations in Sanskrit (e.g. the first verse of the Raghuva??a -- jagata? pitarau). Does anyone know of any articles on this custom? I have a student who needs to research it further. (It's worth noting also that the RV has what is called "avai a?akkam" in Tamil, in which the poet says in the most poetic possible language what a worthless poet he is, something also found commonly in Tamil). -- Thanks -- George Hart > > From wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK Sun Mar 21 08:18:18 2010 From: wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK (Whitney Cox) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 10 08:18:18 +0000 Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" In-Reply-To: <5B3C29CA-C6D1-4DCA-A4F2-76FCFF8F8F84@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <161227088922.23782.5553453176271572649.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1340 Lines: 46 Dear Rajam, In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly "super sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of the name might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing). However, I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit. Best regards, Whitney On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam wrote: > Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named "aniccha" in > any non-Tamil literature? > Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)? > > "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. Later on, the > focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would wilt at the > contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a slender waist] if > she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on. > > There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a + iccha (a + > icchaa - Without Desire/Wish). > > What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in non-Tamil poetry > for such super sensitivity? > > Thanks and regards, > V.S. Rajam > < (www.letsgrammar.org)> > -- Dr. Whitney Cox Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, School of Oriental and African Studies Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square London WC1H 0XG From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Sun Mar 21 15:54:05 2010 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 10 08:54:05 -0700 Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" In-Reply-To: <76c1007b1003210118u32236e08l6feb3509b9ea41f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227088934.23782.2892550960783311424.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1816 Lines: 66 Dear Whitney, The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The emphasis is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I wonder whether the flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone smells it) fascinated the poet. Maybe one could find a similar flower somewhere -- I hope! Thanks and regards, VSR On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote: > Dear Rajam, > > In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly "super > sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of the name > might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than > an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing). > However, > I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit. > > Best regards, > > Whitney > > On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam wrote: >> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named >> "aniccha" in >> any non-Tamil literature? >> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)? >> >> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. Later >> on, the >> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would >> wilt at the >> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a slender >> waist] if >> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on. >> >> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a + >> iccha (a + >> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish). >> >> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in non- >> Tamil poetry >> for such super sensitivity? >> >> Thanks and regards, >> V.S. Rajam >> < (www.letsgrammar.org)> >> > > > > -- > > > Dr. Whitney Cox > Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, > School of Oriental and African Studies > Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square > London WC1H 0XG From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Sun Mar 21 16:09:56 2010 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 10 12:09:56 -0400 Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" In-Reply-To: <8C03634A-E71A-42EE-BEC4-AFB97BE02C55@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <161227088936.23782.6034555708936206290.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2521 Lines: 92 The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the little yellow flower, called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in Latin. For some details see: (also in N. India) (Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch). Cheers, MW On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote: > Dear Whitney, > > The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The > emphasis is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I > wonder whether the flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone > smells it) fascinated the poet. Maybe one could find a similar > flower somewhere -- I hope! > > Thanks and regards, > VSR > > On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote: > >> Dear Rajam, >> >> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly "super >> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of the name >> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than >> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing). >> However, >> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Whitney >> >> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam wrote: >>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named >>> "aniccha" in >>> any non-Tamil literature? >>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)? >>> >>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. Later >>> on, the >>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would >>> wilt at the >>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a >>> slender waist] if >>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on. >>> >>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a + >>> iccha (a + >>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish). >>> >>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in non- >>> Tamil poetry >>> for such super sensitivity? >>> >>> Thanks and regards, >>> V.S. Rajam >>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> Dr. Whitney Cox >> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, >> School of Oriental and African Studies >> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square >> London WC1H 0XG ============ Michael Witzel witzel at fas.harvard.edu Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University 1 Bow Street, Cambridge MA 02138, USA phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; my direct line: 617- 496 2990 From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Sun Mar 21 18:10:35 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 10 13:10:35 -0500 Subject: Biblio query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088939.23782.10533209743381230426.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 436 Lines: 19 The page range for the article cited is pp. 268-278. ---- Original message ---- > >Tashi Tsering, 'On the Dates of Thang stong rgyal po' in Ramon N. Prats ed. >The Pandita and the Siddha: Tibetan Studies in Honour of E. Gene Smith, New >Delhi: Amnye Machen, 2007 Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From filipsky at RZONE.CZ Sun Mar 21 15:15:14 2010 From: filipsky at RZONE.CZ (=?utf-8?Q?Jan_Filipsk=C3=BD?=) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 10 16:15:14 +0100 Subject: Biblio query Message-ID: <161227088932.23782.10072578056046350931.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 344 Lines: 19 Dear List, could any members be so kind as to supply off-list the exact pagination to the following bibliographic entry: Tashi Tsering, 'On the Dates of Thang stong rgyal po' in Ramon N. Prats ed. The Pandita and the Siddha: Tibetan Studies in Honour of E. Gene Smith, New Delhi: Amnye Machen, 2007 Gratefully, Jan Filipsky, Praha From vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU Sun Mar 21 14:44:48 2010 From: vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU (Viktoria Lyssenko) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 10 17:44:48 +0300 Subject: Kalika-purana in e-form Message-ID: <161227088927.23782.5138133428805706544.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 204 Lines: 9 Dear Colleagues, One of my students needs an English translation of Kalika-purana in e-form. Could anybody help? Victoria Lysenko, Research fellow, Institute of philosophy, Russian Academy of Sciences From palaniappa at AOL.COM Mon Mar 22 04:24:32 2010 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 10 23:24:32 -0500 Subject: Survival of 'veRikkaLam' into the 21st century Message-ID: <161227088943.23782.16003329095108513215.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2863 Lines: 12 I recently saw a Malayalam movie 'pAlERimANikyam'. (For more details about the film, see http://www.zimbio.com/South+Indian+Actresses/articles/r99ijGnRExb/Paleri+Manickam+Movie+Review) While it is a 21st century film based on events in the mid-20th century, there is a reason to discuss the film in Indology because of the name of a ritual depicted in the film. The setting of the story is in a mountain village. The ritual is an exorcism ritual done for a girl. The name of the ritual as used in the movie is 'veRikkaLam'. (See the clip between 3:05-3:06 to hear the name of the ceremony. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytZp2q6_BCM&feature=related.) The senior priest tells the younger assistant to come to aid in the ceremony instead of going to see a drama. The ceremony is seen in the following clip beginning at 00:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgvY_QlgKAI&feature=related .The ritual is also referred to in the following clip between 3:35 and 3:45. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS18Wqj0A4s&feature=related . While kaLam 'altar' or 'ritual space' is well-known in connection with Kerala rituals and Tamil scholars have related it to the Classical Tamil usage 'veRikkkaLam' (maturaikkAJci 284), when I heard the usage for the first time in this movie, it was like a naturalist discovering a species that was considered extinct for a long time. Of course, the Namboodri Brahmins perform (have taken over?) such rituals at the higher echelons of the society (See the ritual beginning 5:31 and the mention of the name 'kaLam' at 6:07 in the clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VePKrhTZTpI&feature=related ). The usage 'veRikkaLam' is not found in 'Malayalam-English Dictionary' by M.J. Warrier, E. P. Narayana Bhattathiry, and K. Radhakrishna Warrier. My Malayalam friends whom I asked had not heard of such a term. It is possible that T. P. Rajeevan, the author of the original novel, or the later movie script writers have used the term based on the actual usage in a part of Kerala. The early Tamil term for the dance is either 'veRi' or 'veRiyATTu'. Stritctly speaking, 'veRikkaLam' is the altar. The Kerala usage seems to be a case of metonymy in referring to the ritual. All the same, the continuity of the usage over two millennia, long after the dominant groups had abandoned or downgraded it, is very interesting. I would appreciate if anybody could add more light on this usage in Kerala. As I pondered about posting this, a question crossed my mind on the dating of Classical Tamil poetry. If the attested usage of 'veRikkaLam' in 1957 Kerala/Malabar is confirmed, will it cause an Indologist of the 22nd century to date MaturaikkAJci (with its use of 'veRikkaLam') as not earlier than 1957 and the whole Classical Tamil poetry to be the Tamil nationalist creation of the DMK government which came to power in 1967? Regards, Palaniappan From palaniappa at AOL.COM Mon Mar 22 04:43:19 2010 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 10 23:43:19 -0500 Subject: Survival of 'veRikkaLam' into the 21st century Message-ID: <161227088948.23782.1250985540812055609.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2867 Lines: 13 I recently saw a Malayalam movie 'pAlERimANikyam'. (For more details about the film, see http://www.zimbio.com/South+Indian+Actresses/articles/r99ijGnRExb/Paleri+Manickam+Movie+Review) While it is a 21st century film based on events in the mid-20th century, there is a reason to discuss the film in Indology because of the name of a ritual depicted in the film. The setting of the story is in a mountain village. The ritual is an exorcism ritual done for a girl. The name of the ritual as used in the movie is 'veRikkaLam'. (See the clip between 3:05-3:06 to hear the name of the ceremony. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytZp2q6_BCM&feature=related.) The senior priest tells the younger assistant to come to aid in the ceremony instead of going to see a drama. The ceremony is seen in the following clip beginning at 00:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgvY_QlgKAI&feature=related .The ritual is also referred to in the following clip between 3:35 and 3:45. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS18Wqj0A4s&feature=related . While kaLam 'altar' or 'ritual space' is well-known in connection with Kerala rituals and Tamil scholars have related it to the Classical Tamil usage 'veRikkkaLam' (maturaikkAJci 284), when I heard the usage for the first time in this movie, it was like a naturalist discovering a species that was considered extinct for a long time. Of course, the Namboodri Brahmins perform (have taken over?) such rituals at the higher echelons of the society (See the ritual beginning 5:31 and the mention of the name 'kaLam' at 6:07 in the clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VePKrhTZTpI&feature=related ). The usage 'veRikkaLam' is not found in 'Malayalam-English Dictionary' by M.J. Warrier, E. P. Narayana Bhattathiry, and K. Radhakrishna Warrier. My Malayalam friends whom I asked had not heard of such a term. It is possible that T. P. Rajeevan, the author of the original novel, or the later movie script writers have used the term based on the actual usage in a part of Kerala. The early Tamil term for the dance is either 'veRi' or 'veRiyATTu'. Stritctly speaking, 'veRikkaLam' is the altar. The Kerala usage seems to be a case of metonymy in referring to the ritual. All the same, the continuity of the usage over two millennia, long after the dominant groups had abandoned or downgraded it, is very interesting. I would appreciate if anybody could add more light on this usage in Kerala. As I pondered about posting this, a question crossed my mind on the dating of Classical Tamil poetry. If the attested usage of 'veRikkaLam' in 1957 Kerala/Malabar is confirmed, will it cause an Indologist of the 22nd century to date MaturaikkAJci (with its use of 'veRikkaLam') as not earlier than 1957 and the whole Classical Tamil poetry to be the Tamil nationalist creation of the DMK government which came to power in 1967? Regards, S. Palaniappan From ocattedra at YAHOO.COM.AR Mon Mar 22 14:10:52 2010 From: ocattedra at YAHOO.COM.AR (olivia cattedra) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 10 07:10:52 -0700 Subject: Moksa/Nirvana In-Reply-To: <173861269241284@webmail104.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <161227088961.23782.15692523309008986989.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3050 Lines: 76 I agree with Viktoria, and also I would? add that nirvana, meaning of blowing out? (the movements of the mind)?? has a more psychological connotation? as it seems to be the? context of Buddhism itself. By the other hand,? moksa acquires a more ontological sense. This corresponds to the unveiling, revelation of the self (atman / brahman) in? the fourth state of? conscience, advaita, non dual,? proper of the Vedanta. I think that the difference if there is such, lies in the basic perspective of Buddhism and Ved?nta.? An old,? but still very necessary work,? to observe these nuances is? Karmarkar on Gaudapada K?rik?. Olivia Cattedra CONICET --- El lun 22-mar-10, Viktoria Lyssenko escribi?: De: Viktoria Lyssenko Asunto: Re: Moksa/Nirvana Para: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Fecha: lunes, 22 de marzo de 2010, 4:01 Dear Mary, In my opinion, the meanings of the both largerly overlap in signifying the release from samsara, and in no way the belief in soul/no soul does determine the difference between them as the word nirvana was used not only in Buddhism but in other traditions, like Jainism and Ajivika, especially during the sramana period. The term moksha may seem? more litteral (moksha from the root muc - to let loose) while nirvana more metaphorical (nirvana means "blowing out [the fire of passions]"), but, in the final analysis, both are metaphorical as their sense is quite different from that in the ordinary usus (vyavahara). Still there is a difference in nuances: nirvana puts to the fore the state of overcoming the affects (klesha, nivarana, avarana) and the tranquil state of mind which is rather associated with the absence of suffering then with the state of bliss (ananda), while moksha underlines the release from the burden of samsara as such which does not determine the character of this state - it may be either bliss (ananda) as in the majority of schools or absence of sufferings as in Vaisheshika . Victoria Lysenko Russian Academy of sciences 22.03.10, 10:58, "Mary Storm" : > Dear Indologists, >? >? I wonder if someone could clarify for me the nuances between the? >? meaning of moksa and nirvana? Do both imply release from samsara?? It? >? seems as if a belief in soul/no soul has to determine the meaning and? >? I know the meanings change over the centuries.... but some quick? >? insights would be very welcome. >? >? Apologies for such a broad question. >? >? Thanks so much for your thoughts! >? >? Mary >? >? Mary N. Storm, Ph.D. >? Academic Director and Lecturer >? India: National Identity and the Arts >? and >? Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture >? SIT Study Abroad >? www.sit.edu >? >? F 301 Lado Sarai >? New Delhi 110030 >? >? Mobile +91 98106 98003 >? Office Landline? +91 11 2437 8003 >? Residence Landline +91 11295 53298 >? >? -- ????? ????? ??? http://mail.yandex.ru/nospam/sign Yahoo! Cocina Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina. http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/ From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Mon Mar 22 03:31:19 2010 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 10 09:01:19 +0530 Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088941.23782.3941644074875394879.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3160 Lines: 106 This reminds me that in the hills in the South today one finds plenty of Mimosa pudica, whose leaves temporarily fold up the second that you touch them, or indeed blow on them. But I am not sure how long these plants have been growing there, for the Pandanus website (http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/), quoting Dymock, Warden, Hooper: Pharmacographia Indica, vol. I, pp. 538-539, calls Mimosa pudica a "native of Brazil long naturalized in India". Dominic Goodall On 21 Mar 2010, at 21:39, Michael Witzel wrote: > The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the little > yellow flower, called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in Latin. > > For some details see: > (also in N. India) > > (Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch). > > Cheers, > MW > > > On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote: > >> Dear Whitney, >> >> The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The >> emphasis is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I >> wonder whether the flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone >> smells it) fascinated the poet. Maybe one could find a similar >> flower somewhere -- I hope! >> >> Thanks and regards, >> VSR >> >> On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote: >> >>> Dear Rajam, >>> >>> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly "super >>> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of the name >>> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than >>> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing). >>> However, >>> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Whitney >>> >>> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam wrote: >>>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named >>>> "aniccha" in >>>> any non-Tamil literature? >>>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)? >>>> >>>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. Later >>>> on, the >>>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would >>>> wilt at the >>>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a >>>> slender waist] if >>>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on. >>>> >>>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a + >>>> iccha (a + >>>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish). >>>> >>>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in non- >>>> Tamil poetry >>>> for such super sensitivity? >>>> >>>> Thanks and regards, >>>> V.S. Rajam >>>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> Dr. Whitney Cox >>> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, >>> School of Oriental and African Studies >>> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square >>> London WC1H 0XG > > ============ > Michael Witzel > witzel at fas.harvard.edu > > > Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University > 1 Bow Street, > Cambridge MA 02138, USA > > phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; > my direct line: 617- 496 2990 From vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU Mon Mar 22 07:01:24 2010 From: vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU (Viktoria Lyssenko) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 10 10:01:24 +0300 Subject: Moksa/Nirvana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088958.23782.11296837286448010789.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2063 Lines: 42 Dear Mary, In my opinion, the meanings of the both largerly overlap in signifying the release from samsara, and in no way the belief in soul/no soul does determine the difference between them as the word nirvana was used not only in Buddhism but in other traditions, like Jainism and Ajivika, especially during the sramana period. The term moksha may seem more litteral (moksha from the root muc - to let loose) while nirvana more metaphorical (nirvana means "blowing out [the fire of passions]"), but, in the final analysis, both are metaphorical as their sense is quite different from that in the ordinary usus (vyavahara). Still there is a difference in nuances: nirvana puts to the fore the state of overcoming the affects (klesha, nivarana, avarana) and the tranquil state of mind which is rather associated with the absence of suffering then with the state of bliss (ananda), while moksha underlines the release from the burden of samsara as such which does not determine the character of this state - it may be either bliss (ananda) as in the majority of schools or absence of sufferings as in Vaisheshika . Victoria Lysenko Russian Academy of sciences 22.03.10, 10:58, "Mary Storm" : > Dear Indologists, > > I wonder if someone could clarify for me the nuances between the > meaning of moksa and nirvana? Do both imply release from samsara? It > seems as if a belief in soul/no soul has to determine the meaning and > I know the meanings change over the centuries.... but some quick > insights would be very welcome. > > Apologies for such a broad question. > > Thanks so much for your thoughts! > > Mary > > Mary N. Storm, Ph.D. > Academic Director and Lecturer > India: National Identity and the Arts > and > Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture > SIT Study Abroad > www.sit.edu > > F 301 Lado Sarai > New Delhi 110030 > > Mobile +91 98106 98003 > Office Landline +91 11 2437 8003 > Residence Landline +91 11295 53298 > > -- ????? ????? ??? http://mail.yandex.ru/nospam/sign From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Mon Mar 22 04:37:32 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 10 10:07:32 +0530 Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" In-Reply-To: <662816A8-CBE5-405D-9389-5519322A2DD9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227088945.23782.2940255244471025051.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3513 Lines: 104 Mimosa pudica is Thottalvadi in Tamil not aniccam. Best DB --- On Mon, 22/3/10, Dominic Goodall wrote: From: Dominic Goodall Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 9:01 AM This reminds me that in the hills in the South today one finds plenty of Mimosa pudica, whose leaves temporarily fold up the second that you touch them, or indeed blow on them. But I am not sure how long these plants have been growing there, for the Pandanus website (http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/), quoting Dymock, Warden, Hooper: Pharmacographia Indica, vol. I, pp. 538-539, calls Mimosa pudica a "native of Brazil long naturalized in India". Dominic Goodall On 21 Mar 2010, at 21:39, Michael Witzel wrote: > The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the little yellow? flower,? called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in Latin. > > For some details see: ? (also in N. India) > > (Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch). > > Cheers, > MW > > > On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote: > >> Dear Whitney, >> >> The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The emphasis is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I wonder whether the flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone smells it) fascinated the poet. Maybe one could find a similar flower somewhere -- I hope! >> >> Thanks and regards, >> VSR >> >> On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote: >> >>> Dear Rajam, >>> >>> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly "super >>> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of the name >>> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than >>> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing).? However, >>> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Whitney >>> >>> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam wrote: >>>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named "aniccha" in >>>> any non-Tamil literature? >>>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)? >>>> >>>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. Later on, the >>>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would wilt at the >>>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a slender waist] if >>>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on. >>>> >>>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a + iccha (a + >>>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish). >>>> >>>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in non-Tamil poetry >>>> for such super sensitivity? >>>> >>>> Thanks and regards, >>>> V.S. Rajam >>>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Dr. Whitney Cox >>> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, >>> School of Oriental and African Studies >>> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square >>> London WC1H 0XG > > ============ > Michael Witzel > witzel at fas.harvard.edu > > > Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University > 1 Bow Street, > Cambridge MA 02138, USA > > phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; > my direct line:? 617- 496 2990 The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From mnstorm at MAC.COM Mon Mar 22 05:28:54 2010 From: mnstorm at MAC.COM (Mary Storm) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 10 10:58:54 +0530 Subject: Moksa/Nirvana Message-ID: <161227088950.23782.12257192923315243366.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 703 Lines: 31 Dear Indologists, I wonder if someone could clarify for me the nuances between the meaning of moksa and nirvana? Do both imply release from samsara? It seems as if a belief in soul/no soul has to determine the meaning and I know the meanings change over the centuries.... but some quick insights would be very welcome. Apologies for such a broad question. Thanks so much for your thoughts! Mary Mary N. Storm, Ph.D. Academic Director and Lecturer India: National Identity and the Arts and Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture SIT Study Abroad www.sit.edu F 301 Lado Sarai New Delhi 110030 Mobile +91 98106 98003 Office Landline +91 11 2437 8003 Residence Landline +91 11295 53298 From athr at LOC.GOV Mon Mar 22 15:40:12 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 10 11:40:12 -0400 Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" Message-ID: <161227088963.23782.16195922626565796405.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1731 Lines: 24 I would suspect Albizia julibrissin, which according to the Wiki article < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albizia_julibrissin > is native from Iran east to China and Korea. In many places the common, horticultural, or trade name is Mimosa. We had several in our yard in Norfolk, Virginia, in the '50s, one unusually tall, but all the ones in the region were killed by a disease, though they started growing back, presumably from seeds in the ground, about 10 years later. The leaves fold up each evening and as I recall do the same when touched, although the Wiki article mentions the former but not the latter. (One online gardener's list says they do.) The flowers are like little powder puffs, much like Mimosa pudica, and are indeed quite soft, as are the leaves. To judge from the wide range of climate in which it is supposedly native and the wider range in which it is ornamental or invasive, it seems adaptible in the extreme. In some places it is regarded as invasive and the government has taken measures against it. My impression is that India is so rich in large ornamental trees, shrubs, and vines, that small herbaceous flowers are relatively ignored. This makes me think this tree a more likely candidate than the earth-hugging Mimosa pudica. The Wiki article Mimosa indicates that the taxonomy of plants called Mimosa has been very confusing and shifting. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM Mon Mar 22 06:10:14 2010 From: venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM (venetia ansell) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 10 11:40:14 +0530 Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" In-Reply-To: <471112.10357.qm@web8603.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088953.23782.6410846502480752784.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3971 Lines: 128 Mimosa pudica is certainly very common in Karnataka - it's called chhui mui in Hindi, mutthidaremuni in Kannada I think, and lajjaa (as in bashfulness) in Sanskrit. On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya < dbhattacharya2004 at yahoo.co.in> wrote: > Mimosa pudica is Thottalvadi in Tamil not aniccam. > Best > DB > > --- On Mon, 22/3/10, Dominic Goodall wrote: > > > From: Dominic Goodall > Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 9:01 AM > > > This reminds me that in the hills in the South today one finds plenty of > Mimosa pudica, whose leaves temporarily fold up the second that you touch > them, or indeed blow on them. > > But I am not sure how long these plants have been growing there, for the > Pandanus website (http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/), > quoting Dymock, Warden, Hooper: Pharmacographia Indica, vol. I, pp. > 538-539, calls Mimosa pudica a "native of Brazil long naturalized in India". > > Dominic Goodall > > On 21 Mar 2010, at 21:39, Michael Witzel wrote: > > > The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the little > yellow flower, called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in Latin. > > > > For some details see: > (also in N. India) > > > > (Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch). > > > > Cheers, > > MW > > > > > > On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote: > > > >> Dear Whitney, > >> > >> The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The emphasis > is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I wonder whether the > flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone smells it) fascinated the > poet. Maybe one could find a similar flower somewhere -- I hope! > >> > >> Thanks and regards, > >> VSR > >> > >> On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote: > >> > >>> Dear Rajam, > >>> > >>> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly "super > >>> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of the name > >>> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than > >>> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing). However, > >>> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit. > >>> > >>> Best regards, > >>> > >>> Whitney > >>> > >>> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam wrote: > >>>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named > "aniccha" in > >>>> any non-Tamil literature? > >>>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)? > >>>> > >>>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. Later on, > the > >>>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would wilt at > the > >>>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a slender > waist] if > >>>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on. > >>>> > >>>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a + iccha > (a + > >>>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish). > >>>> > >>>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in non-Tamil > poetry > >>>> for such super sensitivity? > >>>> > >>>> Thanks and regards, > >>>> V.S. Rajam > >>>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> > >>> Dr. Whitney Cox > >>> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, > >>> School of Oriental and African Studies > >>> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square > >>> London WC1H 0XG > > > > ============ > > Michael Witzel > > witzel at fas.harvard.edu > > > > > > Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University > > 1 Bow Street, > > Cambridge MA 02138, USA > > > > phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; > > my direct line: 617- 496 2990 > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. > http://in.yahoo.com/ > From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Mon Mar 22 06:38:39 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 10 12:08:39 +0530 Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088956.23782.17572272963553480401.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4661 Lines: 145 Is it still common? The lajjaavatii or laajawantii was very common along rail tracks even in the seventies. But since its arrival, allegedly from Canada in 1973, the parthenium?has spread like wild fire along the ancient EIR route and the parallel Grand Trunk Road destroying the common lajjaavatii. Best DB --- On Mon, 22/3/10, venetia ansell wrote: From: venetia ansell Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 11:40 AM Mimosa pudica is certainly very common in Karnataka - it's called chhui mui in Hindi, mutthidaremuni in Kannada I think, and lajjaa (as in bashfulness) in Sanskrit. On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya < dbhattacharya2004 at yahoo.co.in> wrote: > Mimosa pudica is Thottalvadi in Tamil not aniccam. > Best > DB > > --- On Mon, 22/3/10, Dominic Goodall wrote: > > > From: Dominic Goodall > Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 9:01 AM > > > This reminds me that in the hills in the South today one finds plenty of > Mimosa pudica, whose leaves temporarily fold up the second that you touch > them, or indeed blow on them. > > But I am not sure how long these plants have been growing there, for the > Pandanus website (http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/), > quoting Dymock, Warden, Hooper: Pharmacographia Indica, vol. I, pp. > 538-539, calls Mimosa pudica a "native of Brazil long naturalized in India". > > Dominic Goodall > > On 21 Mar 2010, at 21:39, Michael Witzel wrote: > > > The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the little > yellow? flower,? called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in Latin. > > > > For some details see: > (also in N. India) > > > > (Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch). > > > > Cheers, > > MW > > > > > > On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote: > > > >> Dear Whitney, > >> > >> The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The emphasis > is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I wonder whether the > flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone smells it) fascinated the > poet. Maybe one could find a similar flower somewhere -- I hope! > >> > >> Thanks and regards, > >> VSR > >> > >> On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote: > >> > >>> Dear Rajam, > >>> > >>> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly "super > >>> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of the name > >>> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than > >>> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing).? However, > >>> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit. > >>> > >>> Best regards, > >>> > >>> Whitney > >>> > >>> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam wrote: > >>>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named > "aniccha" in > >>>> any non-Tamil literature? > >>>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)? > >>>> > >>>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. Later on, > the > >>>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would wilt at > the > >>>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a slender > waist] if > >>>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on. > >>>> > >>>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a + iccha > (a + > >>>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish). > >>>> > >>>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in non-Tamil > poetry > >>>> for such super sensitivity? > >>>> > >>>> Thanks and regards, > >>>> V.S. Rajam > >>>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> > >>> Dr. Whitney Cox > >>> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, > >>> School of Oriental and African Studies > >>> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square > >>> London WC1H 0XG > > > > ============ > > Michael Witzel > > witzel at fas.harvard.edu > > > > > > Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University > > 1 Bow Street, > > Cambridge MA 02138, USA > > > > phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; > > my direct line:? 617- 496 2990 > > > >? ? ? The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. > http://in.yahoo.com/ > Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Mon Mar 22 16:32:14 2010 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 10 17:32:14 +0100 Subject: GRETIL update #367 Message-ID: <161227088966.23782.11178060603061077595.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1329 Lines: 50 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Dhvajagrahakeyura-Dharani Khasarpanasadhana Mahamanivipulavimanavisvasupratisthitaguhyaparamarahasyakalparaja-Dharani Mahapratisara Pancaraksa Mekhala-Dharani Vasudhara-Dharani [version 1] Vasudhara-Dharani [version 2] Vasudhara-Dharani [version 3] __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From peterfriedlander at YAHOO.COM.AU Tue Mar 23 01:38:16 2010 From: peterfriedlander at YAHOO.COM.AU (Peter Friedlander) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 10 18:38:16 -0700 Subject: Moksa/Nirvana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088968.23782.16796692240831136621.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 737 Lines: 23 Dear Colleagues, another perspective on this debate relates to Hindi usage. Nirvana (often in the form nirban) continues to be used in Hindi to the present day in the verses of Nirgun Sant poets such as Kabir, Raidas, and Dharamdas. In such verses the term moksa occurs in compounds such as 'liberated while living' (jivanmukta) and attaining liberation is often spoken as reaching the 'the state of nirvana' (pad nirban). I have just been translating verses by Dharmdas, a follower of Kabir, in which Nirvana was envisaged as a perfect land full of pearl palaces and fountains of nectar etc. regards Peter --------------------------- Peter Friedlander 21 Hindhede Dr #04-04 Singapore, 589318 Handphone: (65) 90624357 From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Tue Mar 23 08:18:53 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 10 03:18:53 -0500 Subject: Moksa/Nirvana In-Reply-To: <145431.89508.qm@web65706.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088970.23782.6501979160455826443.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1621 Lines: 49 it is perhaps worthwhile to stress in this connection that the authors Prof. Friedlander cites followed on the heels of the Buddhist dohas and caryapadas, in which the insistence on the nondifferenciation of samsara and nirvana no doubt contributed to the thematization of nirvana as equivalent to jivanmukta. The Buddhist dohas were of course in their turn drawing on well known Madhyamaka doctrine, but perhaps with a more experiential accent than one finds in the philosophical literature. ---- Original message ---- >Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:38:16 -0700 >From: Peter Friedlander >Subject: Moksa/Nirvana >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > >Dear Colleagues, >another perspective on this debate relates to Hindi usage. >Nirvana (often in the form nirban) continues to be used in Hindi to the present day in the verses of Nirgun Sant poets such as Kabir, Raidas, and Dharamdas. >In such verses the term moksa occurs in compounds such as 'liberated while living' (jivanmukta) and attaining liberation is often spoken as reaching the 'the state of nirvana' (pad nirban). I have just been translating verses by Dharmdas, a follower of Kabir, in which Nirvana was envisaged as a perfect land full of pearl palaces and fountains of nectar etc. >regards >Peter > >--------------------------- > >Peter Friedlander > >21 Hindhede Dr #04-04 > >Singapore, 589318 > >Handphone: (65) 90624357 > > > > Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Tue Mar 23 15:20:22 2010 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 10 08:20:22 -0700 Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" In-Reply-To: <588386.65253.qm@web8603.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088975.23782.17336614200799879825.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5039 Lines: 149 Apparently another name of the a?iccam is aruppalam, which looks as if it could be have a Prakrit or Sanskrit origin (arpala, rupala?) but I can't find anything in those languages. G. Hart On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > Is it still common? The lajjaavatii or laajawantii was very common along rail tracks even in the seventies. But since its arrival, allegedly from Canada in 1973, the parthenium has spread like wild fire along the ancient EIR route and the parallel Grand Trunk Road destroying the common lajjaavatii. > Best > DB > > --- On Mon, 22/3/10, venetia ansell wrote: > > > From: venetia ansell > Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 11:40 AM > > > Mimosa pudica is certainly very common in Karnataka - it's called chhui mui > in Hindi, mutthidaremuni in Kannada I think, and lajjaa (as in bashfulness) > in Sanskrit. > > On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya < > dbhattacharya2004 at yahoo.co.in> wrote: > >> Mimosa pudica is Thottalvadi in Tamil not aniccam. >> Best >> DB >> >> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, Dominic Goodall wrote: >> >> >> From: Dominic Goodall >> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 9:01 AM >> >> >> This reminds me that in the hills in the South today one finds plenty of >> Mimosa pudica, whose leaves temporarily fold up the second that you touch >> them, or indeed blow on them. >> >> But I am not sure how long these plants have been growing there, for the >> Pandanus website (http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/), >> quoting Dymock, Warden, Hooper: Pharmacographia Indica, vol. I, pp. >> 538-539, calls Mimosa pudica a "native of Brazil long naturalized in India". >> >> Dominic Goodall >> >> On 21 Mar 2010, at 21:39, Michael Witzel wrote: >> >>> The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the little >> yellow flower, called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in Latin. >>> >>> For some details see: >> (also in N. India) >>> >>> (Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch). >>> >>> Cheers, >>> MW >>> >>> >>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Whitney, >>>> >>>> The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The emphasis >> is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I wonder whether the >> flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone smells it) fascinated the >> poet. Maybe one could find a similar flower somewhere -- I hope! >>>> >>>> Thanks and regards, >>>> VSR >>>> >>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Rajam, >>>>> >>>>> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly "super >>>>> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of the name >>>>> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than >>>>> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing). However, >>>>> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Whitney >>>>> >>>>> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam wrote: >>>>>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named >> "aniccha" in >>>>>> any non-Tamil literature? >>>>>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)? >>>>>> >>>>>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. Later on, >> the >>>>>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would wilt at >> the >>>>>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a slender >> waist] if >>>>>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on. >>>>>> >>>>>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a + iccha >> (a + >>>>>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish). >>>>>> >>>>>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in non-Tamil >> poetry >>>>>> for such super sensitivity? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>> V.S. Rajam >>>>>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Dr. Whitney Cox >>>>> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, >>>>> School of Oriental and African Studies >>>>> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square >>>>> London WC1H 0XG >>> >>> ============ >>> Michael Witzel >>> witzel at fas.harvard.edu >>> >>> >>> Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University >>> 1 Bow Street, >>> Cambridge MA 02138, USA >>> >>> phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; >>> my direct line: 617- 496 2990 >> >> >> >> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. >> http://in.yahoo.com/ >> > > > > Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From acollins at GCI.NET Tue Mar 23 17:44:47 2010 From: acollins at GCI.NET (Alfred Collins) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 10 09:44:47 -0800 Subject: Moksa/Nirvana In-Reply-To: <1A97D3D73A03FC419D87967D3CE4760C0A8CBE51@MAIL1.AD.Brown.Edu> Message-ID: <161227088980.23782.11142941080709158652.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1564 Lines: 12 Dear Prof. Fitzgerald, If beatitude and release are originally from different semantic fields, perhaps we could see many developments in post 100 BCE "Hinduism" as efforts to put them together. For example, the unity of the two goals of life (puruSArthas) in Samkhya-Yoga, bhuj- and muc-. And surely tantra combines the two thoroughly. Release, however, I would argue has a long Brahmanical history, in the old Vedic theme of opening the closed world, slaying the vRtra serpent, breaking open the cow stall, and the mountain, propping apart heaven and earth, etc. Gonda's old study on aMhas as "constriction" and the need to overcome it in the process of cosmogenesis/sacrifice seems relevant (I realize his argument is not completely accepted). Finally, I have tried to see old Vedic cosmogonies (models for sacrifice) as falling into two sorts, which broadly parallel the release and absorption models. One is the opening/release scenario I just sketched, which tends to be associated with Varuna and Indra, the other is a flow model associated with Agni and Soma, in which substance--light, fire, rain,etc.-- flows from highest heaven to earth via the cow, poetic speech, etc. The two models come together sometimes, as in the puruSasUkta where release (sacrifice) of the cosmic Man is half (or more accurately one-fourth) of the story and three-fourths remains amRta in heaven. I discussed this in my dissertation in 1976, The Origin of the Brahman King Relationship in Indian Social Thought, University of Texas (with Polome and Lehman). Al Collins From James_Fitzgerald at BROWN.EDU Tue Mar 23 13:46:23 2010 From: James_Fitzgerald at BROWN.EDU (Fitzgerald, James) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 10 09:46:23 -0400 Subject: Moksa/Nirvana In-Reply-To: <173861269241284@webmail104.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <161227088972.23782.6655952670920447979.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5935 Lines: 82 Dear colleagues, I would toss a couple of considerations into the general discussion of this topic, #2 being the most germane: 1) I prefer the word (final, or absolute) "beatitude", as a general Western term for discussing the ultimate goal of the various Indic traditions that seek to realize some absolutely good state beyond life in this world (iha, samsara). It is not a perfect word by any means, but it seems to me to import less undesirable semantic freight than "soteriology" and its kin. 2) On the Brahminic side, the oldest and most fundamental conceptualization and metaphors of ultimate beatitude involved the absorption of the person into some concept of a highest being or ultimate reality, a sampad in brahman, amRtabhAva, and the like. The language of escape, mokSa, comes later and is, I suspect, originally exogenous, to the Brahminic tradition. MokSa, of course, is a negative conceptualization, consistent with ethics that start with the presumed facts of karmabandhana, duHkha, samsara, and their attendant themes. The language of completion and fulfillment, sampad, amRtatva, does not depart from those presuppositions and works just fine without them. Of course at some point in time (about 350 BCE +/- 100 years) these two conceptual and rhetorical complexes begin to merge in brahminic discourse, though the merger is often rough and is, I think, not complete and thorough until about 100 CE or so. Eventually brahmabhAva and mokSa became, often, flip sides of the same coin in general descriptions of, or ethical exhortations to pursue, absolute beatitude, however that beatitude may have been conceived by any given writer, which is how they are often taught in undergraduate courses. 3) Words have, I think, more volatility and variability of practical usage than we often credit them with having. While some philosophers in some circumstances use words with great precision and consistency--creating technical vocabularies that persist in their own works and traditions--(and too, they often fail to be as precise and consistent as we would like), most forms of verbal discourse are always more variable than that, words proving more malleable, bending to different pragmatic uses in different contexts. Words definitely have some kind of '(slowly changing) semantic center' (which may be sharp and clear or vague and fuzzy) established by a history of usage (some very small part of which is knowable by us), but no matter how sharp and clear and relatively stable that semantic center may be, the applications of a word in a given context must be 'figured out' in each actual sentence of each given context. I make these last observations specifically in reference to words such as brahman, nirvANa, dharma, guNa, karman, mokSa, jJAna, etc. Early Buddhist uses of brahman and dharma are obviously quite different from contemporaneous Brahminic uses of the words, while at the same time being applications from a shared history of usage of those terms based on common knowledge of their basic semantic charges. The same applies to brahminic uses of nirvANa. While I think it is cerainly the case than when the term nirvAna is used in (pre Gupta) Brahminic texts there is awareness that it is a "nAstika" (they don't typically say "bauddha") term of ultimate importance, I think we need to establish carefully how the word is being used in the specific context, without assuming that highly detailed or specific Buddhist themes are carried with it. With all best wishes, Jim Fitzgerald > -----Original Message----- > From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of > Viktoria Lyssenko > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 3:01 AM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: Moksa/Nirvana > > Dear Mary, > In my opinion, the meanings of the both largerly overlap in > signifying the release from samsara, and in no way the belief > in soul/no soul does determine the difference between them as > the word nirvana was used not only in Buddhism but in other > traditions, like Jainism and Ajivika, especially during the > sramana period. The term moksha may seem more litteral > (moksha from the root muc - to let loose) while nirvana more > metaphorical (nirvana means "blowing out [the fire of > passions]"), but, in the final analysis, both are > metaphorical as their sense is quite different from that in > the ordinary usus (vyavahara). Still there is a difference in > nuances: nirvana puts to the fore the state of overcoming the > affects (klesha, nivarana, avarana) and the tranquil state of > mind which is rather associated with the absence of suffering > then with the state of bliss (ananda), while moksha > underlines the release from the burden of samsara as such > which does not determine the character of this state - it may > be either bliss (ananda) as in the majority of schools or > absence of sufferings as in Vaisheshika . > Victoria Lysenko > Russian Academy of sciences > > 22.03.10, 10:58, "Mary Storm" : > > > Dear Indologists, > > > > I wonder if someone could clarify for me the nuances between the > > meaning of moksa and nirvana? Do both imply release from > samsara? It > > seems as if a belief in soul/no soul has to determine the > meaning and > > I know the meanings change over the centuries.... but some quick > > insights would be very welcome. > > > > Apologies for such a broad question. > > > > Thanks so much for your thoughts! > > > > Mary > > > > Mary N. Storm, Ph.D. > > Academic Director and Lecturer > > India: National Identity and the Arts and Himalayan Buddhist Art > > and Architecture SIT Study Abroad www.sit.edu > > > > F 301 Lado Sarai > > New Delhi 110030 > > > > Mobile +91 98106 98003 > > Office Landline +91 11 2437 8003 > > Residence Landline +91 11295 53298 > > > > > > -- > ????? ????? ??? http://mail.yandex.ru/nospam/sign > From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Tue Mar 23 18:02:21 2010 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 10 11:02:21 -0700 Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" In-Reply-To: <999763.79641.qm@web8606.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227088982.23782.16345600914025319393.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6873 Lines: 175 Aruppalam might be from aruphala. Aru, according to Apte, is "rakta khadira," but unfortunately he doesn't define it. Kittel says it is a plant and says it is "me?asige," but that is not defined either. Khadira by itself is acacia catechu, and rakta khadira might be an acacia tree with red flowers. Acacia arabica (which is native to India)? (see http://www.exogarden.nl/palmzaden/images/acacia-arabica.jpg). The leaves of this are small, gentle and fernlike and could possibly be said to retreat when touched. In any case, this is all speculation -- it points up how difficult it can be to identify botanical names in old Indian texts. For a list (with pictures and recitation) of the flowers in the Ku?i?cipp???u (63-95), see http://karkanirka.wordpress.com/2010/03/15/99tamilflowers_slideshow/ This is a wonderful website and gives some very useful information. Unfortunately, it does not give names in Sanskrit and other Indian languages, but it does give Latin names and so can be used if you know the botanical name of a flower. George Hart On Mar 23, 2010, at 8:54 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > aru?p?nam is a healing herbal in the Atharvaveda, probably a mountain plant likely to be growing in the Lesser Himalayas. But the Orissa manuscripts read arusy?nam. > > > --- On Tue, 23/3/10, George Hart wrote: > > > From: George Hart > Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Tuesday, 23 March, 2010, 8:50 PM > > > Apparently another name of the a?iccam is aruppalam, which looks as if it could be have a Prakrit or Sanskrit origin (arpala, rupala?) but I can't find anything in those languages. G. Hart > > On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > >> Is it still common? The lajjaavatii or laajawantii was very common along rail tracks even in the seventies. But since its arrival, allegedly from Canada in 1973, the parthenium has spread like wild fire along the ancient EIR route and the parallel Grand Trunk Road destroying the common lajjaavatii. >> Best >> DB >> >> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, venetia ansell wrote: >> >> >> From: venetia ansell >> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 11:40 AM >> >> >> Mimosa pudica is certainly very common in Karnataka - it's called chhui mui >> in Hindi, mutthidaremuni in Kannada I think, and lajjaa (as in bashfulness) >> in Sanskrit. >> >> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya < >> dbhattacharya2004 at yahoo.co.in> wrote: >> >>> Mimosa pudica is Thottalvadi in Tamil not aniccam. >>> Best >>> DB >>> >>> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, Dominic Goodall wrote: >>> >>> >>> From: Dominic Goodall >>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" >>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 9:01 AM >>> >>> >>> This reminds me that in the hills in the South today one finds plenty of >>> Mimosa pudica, whose leaves temporarily fold up the second that you touch >>> them, or indeed blow on them. >>> >>> But I am not sure how long these plants have been growing there, for the >>> Pandanus website (http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/), >>> quoting Dymock, Warden, Hooper: Pharmacographia Indica, vol. I, pp. >>> 538-539, calls Mimosa pudica a "native of Brazil long naturalized in India". >>> >>> Dominic Goodall >>> >>> On 21 Mar 2010, at 21:39, Michael Witzel wrote: >>> >>>> The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the little >>> yellow flower, called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in Latin. >>>> >>>> For some details see: >>> (also in N. India) >>>> >>>> (Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch). >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> MW >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Whitney, >>>>> >>>>> The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The emphasis >>> is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I wonder whether the >>> flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone smells it) fascinated the >>> poet. Maybe one could find a similar flower somewhere -- I hope! >>>>> >>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>> VSR >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Rajam, >>>>>> >>>>>> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly "super >>>>>> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of the name >>>>>> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than >>>>>> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing). However, >>>>>> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> Whitney >>>>>> >>>>>> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam wrote: >>>>>>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named >>> "aniccha" in >>>>>>> any non-Tamil literature? >>>>>>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. Later on, >>> the >>>>>>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would wilt at >>> the >>>>>>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a slender >>> waist] if >>>>>>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a + iccha >>> (a + >>>>>>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in non-Tamil >>> poetry >>>>>>> for such super sensitivity? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>>> V.S. Rajam >>>>>>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Dr. Whitney Cox >>>>>> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, >>>>>> School of Oriental and African Studies >>>>>> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square >>>>>> London WC1H 0XG >>>> >>>> ============ >>>> Michael Witzel >>>> witzel at fas.harvard.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University >>>> 1 Bow Street, >>>> Cambridge MA 02138, USA >>>> >>>> phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; >>>> my direct line: 617- 496 2990 >>> >>> >>> >>> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. >>> http://in.yahoo.com/ >>> >> >> >> >> Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > > > > Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Tue Mar 23 18:20:56 2010 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 10 11:20:56 -0700 Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088985.23782.10449372337665058196.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7243 Lines: 183 (Sorry for so many posts -- this is my last one.) http://siddhadreams.blogspot.com/2005/12/this-is-plant-anicham-mentioned-in.html G. Hart On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:02 AM, George Hart wrote: > Aruppalam might be from aruphala. Aru, according to Apte, is "rakta khadira," but unfortunately he doesn't define it. Kittel says it is a plant and says it is "me?asige," but that is not defined either. Khadira by itself is acacia catechu, and rakta khadira might be an acacia tree with red flowers. Acacia arabica (which is native to India)? (see http://www.exogarden.nl/palmzaden/images/acacia-arabica.jpg). The leaves of this are small, gentle and fernlike and could possibly be said to retreat when touched. In any case, this is all speculation -- it points up how difficult it can be to identify botanical names in old Indian texts. > > For a list (with pictures and recitation) of the flowers in the Ku?i?cipp???u (63-95), see > > http://karkanirka.wordpress.com/2010/03/15/99tamilflowers_slideshow/ > > This is a wonderful website and gives some very useful information. Unfortunately, it does not give names in Sanskrit and other Indian languages, but it does give Latin names and so can be used if you know the botanical name of a flower. George Hart > > On Mar 23, 2010, at 8:54 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > >> aru?p?nam is a healing herbal in the Atharvaveda, probably a mountain plant likely to be growing in the Lesser Himalayas. But the Orissa manuscripts read arusy?nam. >> >> >> --- On Tue, 23/3/10, George Hart wrote: >> >> >> From: George Hart >> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Date: Tuesday, 23 March, 2010, 8:50 PM >> >> >> Apparently another name of the a?iccam is aruppalam, which looks as if it could be have a Prakrit or Sanskrit origin (arpala, rupala?) but I can't find anything in those languages. G. Hart >> >> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: >> >>> Is it still common? The lajjaavatii or laajawantii was very common along rail tracks even in the seventies. But since its arrival, allegedly from Canada in 1973, the parthenium has spread like wild fire along the ancient EIR route and the parallel Grand Trunk Road destroying the common lajjaavatii. >>> Best >>> DB >>> >>> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, venetia ansell wrote: >>> >>> >>> From: venetia ansell >>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" >>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 11:40 AM >>> >>> >>> Mimosa pudica is certainly very common in Karnataka - it's called chhui mui >>> in Hindi, mutthidaremuni in Kannada I think, and lajjaa (as in bashfulness) >>> in Sanskrit. >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya < >>> dbhattacharya2004 at yahoo.co.in> wrote: >>> >>>> Mimosa pudica is Thottalvadi in Tamil not aniccam. >>>> Best >>>> DB >>>> >>>> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, Dominic Goodall wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Dominic Goodall >>>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" >>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>>> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 9:01 AM >>>> >>>> >>>> This reminds me that in the hills in the South today one finds plenty of >>>> Mimosa pudica, whose leaves temporarily fold up the second that you touch >>>> them, or indeed blow on them. >>>> >>>> But I am not sure how long these plants have been growing there, for the >>>> Pandanus website (http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/), >>>> quoting Dymock, Warden, Hooper: Pharmacographia Indica, vol. I, pp. >>>> 538-539, calls Mimosa pudica a "native of Brazil long naturalized in India". >>>> >>>> Dominic Goodall >>>> >>>> On 21 Mar 2010, at 21:39, Michael Witzel wrote: >>>> >>>>> The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the little >>>> yellow flower, called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in Latin. >>>>> >>>>> For some details see: >>>> (also in N. India) >>>>> >>>>> (Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch). >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> MW >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Whitney, >>>>>> >>>>>> The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The emphasis >>>> is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I wonder whether the >>>> flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone smells it) fascinated the >>>> poet. Maybe one could find a similar flower somewhere -- I hope! >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>> VSR >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Rajam, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly "super >>>>>>> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of the name >>>>>>> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than >>>>>>> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing). However, >>>>>>> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Whitney >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam wrote: >>>>>>>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named >>>> "aniccha" in >>>>>>>> any non-Tamil literature? >>>>>>>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. Later on, >>>> the >>>>>>>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would wilt at >>>> the >>>>>>>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a slender >>>> waist] if >>>>>>>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a + iccha >>>> (a + >>>>>>>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in non-Tamil >>>> poetry >>>>>>>> for such super sensitivity? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>>>> V.S. Rajam >>>>>>>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dr. Whitney Cox >>>>>>> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, >>>>>>> School of Oriental and African Studies >>>>>>> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square >>>>>>> London WC1H 0XG >>>>> >>>>> ============ >>>>> Michael Witzel >>>>> witzel at fas.harvard.edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University >>>>> 1 Bow Street, >>>>> Cambridge MA 02138, USA >>>>> >>>>> phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; >>>>> my direct line: 617- 496 2990 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. >>>> http://in.yahoo.com/ >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ >> >> >> >> Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Tue Mar 23 20:02:52 2010 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 10 13:02:52 -0700 Subject: flowers: interest in small or only in large? In-Reply-To: <20100323T151411Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov> Message-ID: <161227088990.23782.834593413254417685.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1343 Lines: 38 Not being a "botanist" and not knowing the "technical aspects" of "herbaceous," I'd like to mention that in Tamil literature all kinds of plants/flowers, small or big, large trees, shrubs, and vines--that grow in the ground, fields, on the shore, in the water (dirty or clear), in arid land, mountain slope--are mentioned and admired for their beauty or for certain innate quality that helps the poet to convey specific ideas, I guess. And, none of the early poems is pre- occupied with any of the plant's medicinal quality. Best, V.S. Rajam On Mar 23, 2010, at 12:14 PM, Allen W Thrasher wrote: > Do people share my feeling that Indian literature is little > interested in the beauty of small herbaceous flowering plants, but > only in large trees, shrubs, and vines? Any difference in this > between Sanskrit, Prakrit, and Tamil literatures? Any changes > under Islamic or British influence? > > Medical interest is of course another thing. > > Allen > > Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. > Senior Reference Librarian > Team Coordinator > South Asia Team, Asian Division > Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 > 101 Independence Ave., S.E. > Washington, DC 20540-4810 > tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov > The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the > Library of Congress. From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Tue Mar 23 20:27:12 2010 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 10 13:27:12 -0700 Subject: expectation (Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?") In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088993.23782.3977821455377477747.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7723 Lines: 234 The work by the young engineer at http://karkanirka.wordpress.com/ 2010/03/15/99tamilflowers_slideshow/ is excellent, informative, and educative. In fact, my initial query originated there. /Unfortunately, it does not give names in Sanskrit and other Indian languages,/ Just a naive / un-harmful question: But why do we have such expectation -- for "names in Sanskrit" to be available? On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:02 AM, George Hart wrote: > Aruppalam might be from aruphala. Aru, according to Apte, is > "rakta khadira," but unfortunately he doesn't define it. Kittel > says it is a plant and says it is "me?asige," but that is not > defined either. Khadira by itself is acacia catechu, and rakta > khadira might be an acacia tree with red flowers. Acacia arabica > (which is native to India)? (see http://www.exogarden.nl/palmzaden/ > images/acacia-arabica.jpg). The leaves of this are small, gentle > and fernlike and could possibly be said to retreat when touched. > In any case, this is all speculation -- it points up how difficult > it can be to identify botanical names in old Indian texts. > > For a list (with pictures and recitation) of the flowers in the > Ku?i?cipp???u (63-95), see > > http://karkanirka.wordpress.com/2010/03/15/99tamilflowers_slideshow/ > > This is a wonderful website and gives some very useful > information. Unfortunately, it does not give names in Sanskrit and > other Indian languages, but it does give Latin names and so can be > used if you know the botanical name of a flower. George Hart > > On Mar 23, 2010, at 8:54 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > >> aru?p?nam is a healing herbal in the Atharvaveda, probably a >> mountain plant likely to be growing in the Lesser Himalayas. But >> the Orissa manuscripts read arusy?nam. >> >> >> --- On Tue, 23/3/10, George Hart wrote: >> >> >> From: George Hart >> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Date: Tuesday, 23 March, 2010, 8:50 PM >> >> >> Apparently another name of the a?iccam is aruppalam, which looks >> as if it could be have a Prakrit or Sanskrit origin (arpala, >> rupala?) but I can't find anything in those languages. G. Hart >> >> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: >> >>> Is it still common? The lajjaavatii or laajawantii was very >>> common along rail tracks even in the seventies. But since its >>> arrival, allegedly from Canada in 1973, the parthenium has spread >>> like wild fire along the ancient EIR route and the parallel Grand >>> Trunk Road destroying the common lajjaavatii. >>> Best >>> DB >>> >>> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, venetia ansell >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> From: venetia ansell >>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" >>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 11:40 AM >>> >>> >>> Mimosa pudica is certainly very common in Karnataka - it's called >>> chhui mui >>> in Hindi, mutthidaremuni in Kannada I think, and lajjaa (as in >>> bashfulness) >>> in Sanskrit. >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya < >>> dbhattacharya2004 at yahoo.co.in> wrote: >>> >>>> Mimosa pudica is Thottalvadi in Tamil not aniccam. >>>> Best >>>> DB >>>> >>>> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, Dominic Goodall >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Dominic Goodall >>>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" >>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>>> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 9:01 AM >>>> >>>> >>>> This reminds me that in the hills in the South today one finds >>>> plenty of >>>> Mimosa pudica, whose leaves temporarily fold up the second that >>>> you touch >>>> them, or indeed blow on them. >>>> >>>> But I am not sure how long these plants have been growing there, >>>> for the >>>> Pandanus website (http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/), >>>> quoting Dymock, Warden, Hooper: Pharmacographia Indica, vol. I, pp. >>>> 538-539, calls Mimosa pudica a "native of Brazil long >>>> naturalized in India". >>>> >>>> Dominic Goodall >>>> >>>> On 21 Mar 2010, at 21:39, Michael Witzel wrote: >>>> >>>>> The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the little >>>> yellow flower, called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in >>>> Latin. >>>>> >>>>> For some details see: >>>> giantbalsamim_xal.htm> >>>> (also in N. India) >>>>> >>>>> (Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch). >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> MW >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Whitney, >>>>>> >>>>>> The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The >>>>>> emphasis >>>> is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I wonder >>>> whether the >>>> flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone smells it) >>>> fascinated the >>>> poet. Maybe one could find a similar flower somewhere -- I hope! >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>> VSR >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Rajam, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly >>>>>>> "super >>>>>>> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of >>>>>>> the name >>>>>>> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than >>>>>>> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing). >>>>>>> However, >>>>>>> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Whitney >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam wrote: >>>>>>>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named >>>> "aniccha" in >>>>>>>> any non-Tamil literature? >>>>>>>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. >>>>>>>> Later on, >>>> the >>>>>>>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it >>>>>>>> would wilt at >>>> the >>>>>>>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a >>>>>>>> slender >>>> waist] if >>>>>>>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a >>>>>>>> + iccha >>>> (a + >>>>>>>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in >>>>>>>> non-Tamil >>>> poetry >>>>>>>> for such super sensitivity? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>>>> V.S. Rajam >>>>>>>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dr. Whitney Cox >>>>>>> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, >>>>>>> School of Oriental and African Studies >>>>>>> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square >>>>>>> London WC1H 0XG >>>>> >>>>> ============ >>>>> Michael Witzel >>>>> witzel at fas.harvard.edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University >>>>> 1 Bow Street, >>>>> Cambridge MA 02138, USA >>>>> >>>>> phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; >>>>> my direct line: 617- 496 2990 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your >>>> Yahoo! Homepage. >>>> http://in.yahoo.com/ >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get >>> it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ >> >> >> >> Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it >> NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Mar 23 19:14:11 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 10 15:14:11 -0400 Subject: flowers: interest in small or only in large? Message-ID: <161227088987.23782.11895111088534661011.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 683 Lines: 18 Do people share my feeling that Indian literature is little interested in the beauty of small herbaceous flowering plants, but only in large trees, shrubs, and vines? Any difference in this between Sanskrit, Prakrit, and Tamil literatures? Any changes under Islamic or British influence? Medical interest is of course another thing. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Team Coordinator South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Tue Mar 23 15:54:00 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 10 21:24:00 +0530 Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227088977.23782.15610201422594049139.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5570 Lines: 165 aru?p?nam is a healing herbal in the Atharvaveda, probably a mountain plant likely to be growing in the Lesser Himalayas. But the Orissa manuscripts read arusy?nam. --- On Tue, 23/3/10, George Hart wrote: From: George Hart Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 23 March, 2010, 8:50 PM Apparently another name of the a?iccam is aruppalam, which looks as if it could be have a Prakrit or Sanskrit origin (arpala, rupala?) but I can't find anything in those languages.? G. Hart On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > Is it still common? The lajjaavatii or laajawantii was very common along rail tracks even in the seventies. But since its arrival, allegedly from Canada in 1973, the parthenium has spread like wild fire along the ancient EIR route and the parallel Grand Trunk Road destroying the common lajjaavatii. > Best > DB > > --- On Mon, 22/3/10, venetia ansell wrote: > > > From: venetia ansell > Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 11:40 AM > > > Mimosa pudica is certainly very common in Karnataka - it's called chhui mui > in Hindi, mutthidaremuni in Kannada I think, and lajjaa (as in bashfulness) > in Sanskrit. > > On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya < > dbhattacharya2004 at yahoo.co.in> wrote: > >> Mimosa pudica is Thottalvadi in Tamil not aniccam. >> Best >> DB >> >> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, Dominic Goodall wrote: >> >> >> From: Dominic Goodall >> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 9:01 AM >> >> >> This reminds me that in the hills in the South today one finds plenty of >> Mimosa pudica, whose leaves temporarily fold up the second that you touch >> them, or indeed blow on them. >> >> But I am not sure how long these plants have been growing there, for the >> Pandanus website (http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/), >> quoting Dymock, Warden, Hooper: Pharmacographia Indica, vol. I, pp. >> 538-539, calls Mimosa pudica a "native of Brazil long naturalized in India". >> >> Dominic Goodall >> >> On 21 Mar 2010, at 21:39, Michael Witzel wrote: >> >>> The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the little >> yellow? flower,? called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in Latin. >>> >>> For some details see: >> (also in N. India) >>> >>> (Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch). >>> >>> Cheers, >>> MW >>> >>> >>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Whitney, >>>> >>>> The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The emphasis >> is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I wonder whether the >> flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone smells it) fascinated the >> poet. Maybe one could find a similar flower somewhere -- I hope! >>>> >>>> Thanks and regards, >>>> VSR >>>> >>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Rajam, >>>>> >>>>> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly "super >>>>> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of the name >>>>> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than >>>>> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing).? However, >>>>> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Whitney >>>>> >>>>> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam wrote: >>>>>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named >> "aniccha" in >>>>>> any non-Tamil literature? >>>>>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)? >>>>>> >>>>>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. Later on, >> the >>>>>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would wilt at >> the >>>>>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a slender >> waist] if >>>>>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on. >>>>>> >>>>>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a + iccha >> (a + >>>>>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish). >>>>>> >>>>>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in non-Tamil >> poetry >>>>>> for such super sensitivity? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>> V.S. Rajam >>>>>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Dr. Whitney Cox >>>>> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, >>>>> School of Oriental and African Studies >>>>> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square >>>>> London WC1H 0XG >>> >>> ============ >>> Michael Witzel >>> witzel at fas.harvard.edu >>> >>> >>> Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University >>> 1 Bow Street, >>> Cambridge MA 02138, USA >>> >>> phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; >>> my direct line:? 617- 496 2990 >> >> >> >>? ? ???The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. >> http://in.yahoo.com/ >> > > > >? ? ? Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From James_Fitzgerald at BROWN.EDU Wed Mar 24 09:32:26 2010 From: James_Fitzgerald at BROWN.EDU (Fitzgerald, James) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 10 05:32:26 -0400 Subject: Moksa/Nirvana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089001.23782.5980924135701323630.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2436 Lines: 53 Dear Dr. Collins, Thank you for mentioning your dissertation which sounds very interesting. I was not in any way suggesting there is not a rich history of the word /muc in pre-Buddhist Sanskrit texts, only that I think the conceptual complex involving the realization of a transcendently good resolution of life in terms of escaping a systemic miserable condition, getting free of the systemic bondage of the soul, etc., is a distinct set of intellectual and rhetorical themes that is not initially organic with conceptions of (re-)attaining some kind of original plenum or bliss. And it is the complex of ideas and verbal formulations that I refer to as exogenous--not any individual idea or word (which, as Dominic Goodall's recent examples nicely show, are very labile). All the best, Jim Fitzgerald > If beatitude and release are originally from different > semantic fields, perhaps we could see many developments in > post 100 BCE "Hinduism" as efforts to put them together. For > example, the unity of the two goals of life (puruSArthas) in > Samkhya-Yoga, bhuj- and muc-. And surely tantra combines the > two thoroughly. > > Release, however, I would argue has a long Brahmanical > history, in the old Vedic theme of opening the closed world, > slaying the vRtra serpent, breaking open the cow stall, and > the mountain, propping apart heaven and earth, etc. Gonda's > old study on aMhas as "constriction" and the need to overcome > it in the process of cosmogenesis/sacrifice seems relevant (I > realize his argument is not completely accepted). > > Finally, I have tried to see old Vedic cosmogonies (models > for sacrifice) as falling into two sorts, which broadly > parallel the release and absorption models. One is the > opening/release scenario I just sketched, which tends to be > associated with Varuna and Indra, the other is a flow model > associated with Agni and Soma, in which substance--light, > fire, rain,etc.-- flows from highest heaven to earth via the > cow, poetic speech, etc. The two models come together > sometimes, as in the puruSasUkta where release (sacrifice) of > the cosmic Man is half (or more accurately one-fourth) of the > story and three-fourths remains amRta in heaven. I discussed > this in my dissertation in 1976, The Origin of the Brahman > King Relationship in Indian Social Thought, University of > Texas (with Polome and Lehman). > > Al Collins > From fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU Wed Mar 24 16:21:23 2010 From: fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU (FRITS STAAL) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 10 09:21:23 -0700 Subject: Berlin 1881 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089008.23782.16504236658175609427.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1397 Lines: 48 I have something related: Kern's Verspreide Geschriften vols. 12 (1924) - 13 (1927) but: A. you probably have them in Leiden; B. I could not find anything in any of those volumes about Bunyo Nanjo. cheers and search on, Frits > Friends, > > I wonder if someone who has the proceedings of the Fifth International > Congress of Orientalists held in Berlin in 1881 on his or her bed-side > table > (!) would be willing to look up something for me (it appears that while > our > library has the volumes for the 4th and 6th, we don't have the 5th). Is > there a list or index of attendees/participants? I know that the Japanese > scholar Bunyiu Nanjio (Bunyu Nanjo) attended, along with his teacher Max > M?ller. What I am interested to know is if Hendrik Kern was also there. I > think he must have been, but at least the bibliography I have does not > list > a publication of his lecture (as it does for example for his contribution > to > the 6th meeting of the same congress). I am trying to find out if the two, > Nanjo and Kern, might have met there. (Sadly, the correspondence files of > both respective scholars were destroyed, so I can't track any letters they > would have exchanged.) > > With best thanks in advance, Jonathan > > -- > J. Silk > Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden > Postbus 9515 > 2300 RA Leiden > Netherlands > Frits Staal http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/staal From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Wed Mar 24 04:18:54 2010 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 10 09:48:54 +0530 Subject: Moksa/Nirvana In-Reply-To: <1A97D3D73A03FC419D87967D3CE4760C0A8CBE51@MAIL1.AD.Brown.Edu> Message-ID: <161227088998.23782.12799714491715241458.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 974 Lines: 21 Just to reiterate this point, a few centuries into the Christian era we also find the terms saayujya and saayojya used by those for whom the liberated state is not conceived of as any sort of union, and terms such as kaivalya used by those for whom the liberated state is not one of isolation, and terms such as apavarga and du.hkhaanta used by those who conceive of the liberated state as characterised by an attainment of bliss and/or power, rather than simply as a release. Dominic Goodall On 23 Mar 2010, at 19:16, Fitzgerald, James wrote: > While I think it is cerainly the case than when the term nirvAna is > used in (pre Gupta) Brahminic texts there is awareness that it is a > "nAstika" (they don't typically say "bauddha") term of ultimate > importance, I think we need to establish carefully how the word is > being used in the specific context, without assuming that highly > detailed or specific Buddhist themes are carried with it. From jenni.cover at URSYS.COM.AU Tue Mar 23 23:03:12 2010 From: jenni.cover at URSYS.COM.AU (Jennifer Cover) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 10 10:03:12 +1100 Subject: Moksa/Nirvana Message-ID: <161227088996.23782.3795143927318169542.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1775 Lines: 32 Greetings All, I have been enjoying this discussion and would like to contribute the use of these words in an 18th century Sanskrit text named Bodhas?ra by Narahari. I am completing the translation of Bodhas?ra for publication in a few months. It is a predominately Vedanta text, but the scope of the text is vast, including reflections on Advaita, many types of Yoga (pat??jali, ha?ha, laya, mantra, bhakti, r?ja), ?iva-?akti, S??khya, daily ritual practices, hearing the Vedas and Pur??as, worship of Kr???a and ?iva etc.etc. There are various references to the Yogav?si??ha and Pur??as. Bodhas?ra uses the word Mok?a (in various forms) many times, has a section of 10 verses on nirv??a, and a section of 18 verses on j?vanmukt?. The words nirv??a and j?vanmukt? are also used in a few other verses. Narahari has many delightful things to say about all of these, but to summarise very briefly and generally. The essence of Mok?a is j?vabrahmaikya (union of individual and universal or individual and brahman). In his section on nirv??a, having said that it can?t be described, Narahari gives insights by saying what it isn?t and by saying that it is the end (anta) for sacred texts, ascetics, instruction and discernment. He concludes by saying that brahman must be really heard (not just heard about). If brahman is to be then there can only brahman. His section on j?vanmukt? celebrates the festival of duality and non-duality. He says that only for the one who has attained j?vanmukt? does the great festival of duality and non-duality happen. Among other things he describes it as a play of ?svara, a partial expression of ?svara?s own form. If these diacritics aren?t coming through please tell me. Dr Jennifer Cover Sydney Australia From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Wed Mar 24 20:57:23 2010 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 10 13:57:23 -0700 Subject: Much simpler than that (Re: expectation (Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?")) In-Reply-To: <4BAA5AEE.7060904@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <161227089016.23782.5613643795371045682.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 11119 Lines: 343 Dear JLC, Thanks for the bright answers! My query was much much simpler. I was just wondering why anyone would look for answers for some deep-delving academic questions in a non- academic naive presentation like that of the young engineer's slide presentation of the flowers. That's all. --vsr On Mar 24, 2010, at 11:33 AM, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: > ??????? V.S. Rajam, > > I believe there are (at least) two distinct ways of answering your > "naive / un-harmful" question. > > > *(1)* EITHER we consider that linguistic fieldwork is needed > (and that it MUST/CAN be done ONLY with native speakers, who tap on > their native knowledge > [[which means that people will not pretend to really have known > (INTUITIVELY and previously) > the answer to a question about something that they did not know > about for sure > before making a GOOGLE search on Google Images]]) > > > *(2)* OR we remember that the LIVERPOOL INDOLOGY list > (on which this message has appeared recently) > is a mailing list frequented by the users of many INDIAN languages > (including sanskrit). > > That being the case, > it makes sense to compare: > > *a.* the data found on the PANDANUS web site > SEE: > (recently quoted by Dominic GOODALL), > which contains: > > 784 Malayalam plant names > > 675 Tamil plant names > > 670 Hindi plant names > > 650 Latin botanical names > > 616 Sanskrit plant names > > 543 English designations > > 146 names in Bengali > > 68 names in Prakrit > > [Welcome additions would be: Kannada, Telugu, etc.] > > *b* data compiled by the native users of many Indian languages > (including Tamil) > > ********************************* > > As a Post-Scriptum, > I would like to add that this exchange on the Liverpool Indology > mailing list > is, to some extent, a post-scriptum > to an exchange which earlier took place on another mailing list > for which I am the owner [[DISCLAIMER STATEMENT]], on a French CNRS > server. > > A more complete set of textual data > will be found at the following URL-s > > (the ORIGINAL post by Palaniappan Vairam Sarathy, which triggered > everything) > > A recent post, > in which I am trying to make a synthesis of the NON-SPECULATIVE > evidence > (including the ???????? / Pi?kalam [a moderately > old KO?A] evidence, > which my friend George Hart seems to have been using, > when mentioning alternate names for ????????), > is available at: > > > Best wishes to all > > You are all of course welcome to join CTAMIL > , > on the CNRS server, > if you are interested in such topics > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard > > > > Le 3/23/2010 9:27 PM, rajam a ?crit : >> The work by the young engineer at http://karkanirka.wordpress.com/ >> 2010/03/15/99tamilflowers_slideshow/ >> is excellent, informative, and educative. In fact, my initial >> query originated there. >> >> /Unfortunately, it does not give names in Sanskrit and other >> Indian languages,/ >> >> Just a naive / un-harmful question: But why do we have such >> expectation -- for "names in Sanskrit" to be available? >> >> >> On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:02 AM, George Hart wrote: >> >>> Aruppalam might be from aruphala. Aru, according to Apte, is >>> "rakta khadira," but unfortunately he doesn't define it. Kittel >>> says it is a plant and says it is "me?asige," but that is not >>> defined either. Khadira by itself is acacia catechu, and rakta >>> khadira might be an acacia tree with red flowers. Acacia arabica >>> (which is native to India)? (see http://www.exogarden.nl/ >>> palmzaden/images/acacia-arabica.jpg). The leaves of this are >>> small, gentle and fernlike and could possibly be said to retreat >>> when touched. In any case, this is all speculation -- it points >>> up how difficult it can be to identify botanical names in old >>> Indian texts. >>> >>> For a list (with pictures and recitation) of the flowers in the >>> Ku?i?cipp???u (63-95), see >>> >>> http://karkanirka.wordpress.com/2010/03/15/99tamilflowers_slideshow/ >>> >>> This is a wonderful website and gives some very useful >>> information. Unfortunately, it does not give names in Sanskrit >>> and other Indian languages, but it does give Latin names and so >>> can be used if you know the botanical name of a flower. George Hart >>> >>> On Mar 23, 2010, at 8:54 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: >>> >>>> aru?p?nam is a healing herbal in the Atharvaveda, probably a >>>> mountain plant likely to be growing in the Lesser Himalayas. But >>>> the Orissa manuscripts read arusy?nam. >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Tue, 23/3/10, George Hart wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> From: George Hart >>>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" >>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>>> Date: Tuesday, 23 March, 2010, 8:50 PM >>>> >>>> >>>> Apparently another name of the a?iccam is aruppalam, which >>>> looks as if it could be have a Prakrit or Sanskrit origin >>>> (arpala, rupala?) but I can't find anything in those languages. >>>> G. Hart >>>> >>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: >>>> >>>>> Is it still common? The lajjaavatii or laajawantii was very >>>>> common along rail tracks even in the seventies. But since its >>>>> arrival, allegedly from Canada in 1973, the parthenium has >>>>> spread like wild fire along the ancient EIR route and the >>>>> parallel Grand Trunk Road destroying the common lajjaavatii. >>>>> Best >>>>> DB >>>>> >>>>> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, venetia ansell >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: venetia ansell >>>>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" >>>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>>>> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 11:40 AM >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mimosa pudica is certainly very common in Karnataka - it's >>>>> called chhui mui >>>>> in Hindi, mutthidaremuni in Kannada I think, and lajjaa (as in >>>>> bashfulness) >>>>> in Sanskrit. >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya < >>>>> dbhattacharya2004 at yahoo.co.in> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Mimosa pudica is Thottalvadi in Tamil not aniccam. >>>>>> Best >>>>>> DB >>>>>> >>>>>> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, Dominic Goodall >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Dominic Goodall >>>>>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" >>>>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>>>>> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 9:01 AM >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This reminds me that in the hills in the South today one finds >>>>>> plenty of >>>>>> Mimosa pudica, whose leaves temporarily fold up the second >>>>>> that you touch >>>>>> them, or indeed blow on them. >>>>>> >>>>>> But I am not sure how long these plants have been growing >>>>>> there, for the >>>>>> Pandanus website (http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/), >>>>>> quoting Dymock, Warden, Hooper: Pharmacographia Indica, vol. >>>>>> I, pp. >>>>>> 538-539, calls Mimosa pudica a "native of Brazil long >>>>>> naturalized in India". >>>>>> >>>>>> Dominic Goodall >>>>>> >>>>>> On 21 Mar 2010, at 21:39, Michael Witzel wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the >>>>>>> little >>>>>> yellow flower, called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in >>>>>> Latin. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For some details see: >>>>>> giantbalsamim_xal.htm> >>>>>> (also in N. India) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> MW >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear Whitney, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. >>>>>>>> The emphasis >>>>>> is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I wonder >>>>>> whether the >>>>>> flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone smells it) >>>>>> fascinated the >>>>>> poet. Maybe one could find a similar flower somewhere -- I hope! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>>>> VSR >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear Rajam, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly >>>>>>>>> "super >>>>>>>>> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of >>>>>>>>> the name >>>>>>>>> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather >>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same >>>>>>>>> thing). However, >>>>>>>>> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Whitney >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named >>>>>> "aniccha" in >>>>>>>>>> any non-Tamil literature? >>>>>>>>>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil >>>>>>>>>> poetry. Later on, >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it >>>>>>>>>> would wilt at >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a >>>>>>>>>> slender >>>>>> waist] if >>>>>>>>>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so >>>>>>>>>> on. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: >>>>>>>>>> a + iccha >>>>>> (a + >>>>>>>>>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled >>>>>>>>>> in non-Tamil >>>>>> poetry >>>>>>>>>> for such super sensitivity? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>>>>>> V.S. Rajam >>>>>>>>>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dr. Whitney Cox >>>>>>>>> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, >>>>>>>>> School of Oriental and African Studies >>>>>>>>> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square >>>>>>>>> London WC1H 0XG >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ============ >>>>>>> Michael Witzel >>>>>>> witzel at fas.harvard.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University >>>>>>> 1 Bow Street, >>>>>>> Cambridge MA 02138, USA >>>>>>> >>>>>>> phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; >>>>>>> my direct line: 617- 496 2990 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your >>>>>> Yahoo! Homepage. >>>>>> http://in.yahoo.com/ >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. >>>>> Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get >>>> it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ >> From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Wed Mar 24 15:53:26 2010 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 10 16:53:26 +0100 Subject: Berlin 1881 Message-ID: <161227089003.23782.3518151911624432353.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1060 Lines: 27 Friends, I wonder if someone who has the proceedings of the Fifth International Congress of Orientalists held in Berlin in 1881 on his or her bed-side table (!) would be willing to look up something for me (it appears that while our library has the volumes for the 4th and 6th, we don't have the 5th). Is there a list or index of attendees/participants? I know that the Japanese scholar Bunyiu Nanjio (Bunyu Nanjo) attended, along with his teacher Max M?ller. What I am interested to know is if Hendrik Kern was also there. I think he must have been, but at least the bibliography I have does not list a publication of his lecture (as it does for example for his contribution to the 6th meeting of the same congress). I am trying to find out if the two, Nanjo and Kern, might have met there. (Sadly, the correspondence files of both respective scholars were destroyed, so I can't track any letters they would have exchanged.) With best thanks in advance, Jonathan -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Wed Mar 24 15:55:38 2010 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 10 16:55:38 +0100 Subject: PS: regarding Kern at the 1881 Berlin conference Message-ID: <161227089006.23782.11192733596389571547.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 246 Lines: 13 this to Allan Thrasher: LOC actually lists its ownership of Weber's files from the congress, if you wanted to wade through them for such information.... -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Wed Mar 24 18:33:18 2010 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 10 19:33:18 +0100 Subject: expectation (Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?") In-Reply-To: <9F6853B0-4FAF-4652-B31E-BF7E4F73F455@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <161227089010.23782.10746310429323363889.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 10238 Lines: 318 ??????? V.S. Rajam, I believe there are (at least) two distinct ways of answering your "naive / un-harmful" question. *(1)* EITHER we consider that linguistic fieldwork is needed (and that it MUST/CAN be done ONLY with native speakers, who tap on their native knowledge [[which means that people will not pretend to really have known (INTUITIVELY and previously) the answer to a question about something that they did not know about for sure before making a GOOGLE search on Google Images]]) *(2)* OR we remember that the LIVERPOOL INDOLOGY list (on which this message has appeared recently) is a mailing list frequented by the users of many INDIAN languages (including sanskrit). That being the case, it makes sense to compare: *a.* the data found on the PANDANUS web site SEE: (recently quoted by Dominic GOODALL), which contains: 784 Malayalam plant names 675 Tamil plant names 670 Hindi plant names 650 Latin botanical names 616 Sanskrit plant names 543 English designations 146 names in Bengali 68 names in Prakrit [Welcome additions would be: Kannada, Telugu, etc.] *b* data compiled by the native users of many Indian languages (including Tamil) ********************************* As a Post-Scriptum, I would like to add that this exchange on the Liverpool Indology mailing list is, to some extent, a post-scriptum to an exchange which earlier took place on another mailing list for which I am the owner [[DISCLAIMER STATEMENT]], on a French CNRS server. A more complete set of textual data will be found at the following URL-s (the ORIGINAL post by Palaniappan Vairam Sarathy, which triggered everything) A recent post, in which I am trying to make a synthesis of the NON-SPECULATIVE evidence (including the ???????? / Pi?kalam [a moderately old KO?A] evidence, which my friend George Hart seems to have been using, when mentioning alternate names for ????????), is available at: Best wishes to all You are all of course welcome to join CTAMIL , on the CNRS server, if you are interested in such topics -- Jean-Luc Chevillard Le 3/23/2010 9:27 PM, rajam a ?crit : > The work by the young engineer at > http://karkanirka.wordpress.com/2010/03/15/99tamilflowers_slideshow/ > is excellent, informative, and educative. In fact, my initial query > originated there. > > /Unfortunately, it does not give names in Sanskrit and other Indian > languages,/ > > Just a naive / un-harmful question: But why do we have such > expectation -- for "names in Sanskrit" to be available? > > > On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:02 AM, George Hart wrote: > >> Aruppalam might be from aruphala. Aru, according to Apte, is "rakta >> khadira," but unfortunately he doesn't define it. Kittel says it is >> a plant and says it is "me?asige," but that is not defined either. >> Khadira by itself is acacia catechu, and rakta khadira might be an >> acacia tree with red flowers. Acacia arabica (which is native to >> India)? (see >> http://www.exogarden.nl/palmzaden/images/acacia-arabica.jpg). The >> leaves of this are small, gentle and fernlike and could possibly be >> said to retreat when touched. In any case, this is all speculation >> -- it points up how difficult it can be to identify botanical names >> in old Indian texts. >> >> For a list (with pictures and recitation) of the flowers in the >> Ku?i?cipp???u (63-95), see >> >> http://karkanirka.wordpress.com/2010/03/15/99tamilflowers_slideshow/ >> >> This is a wonderful website and gives some very useful information. >> Unfortunately, it does not give names in Sanskrit and other Indian >> languages, but it does give Latin names and so can be used if you >> know the botanical name of a flower. George Hart >> >> On Mar 23, 2010, at 8:54 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: >> >>> aru?p?nam is a healing herbal in the Atharvaveda, probably a >>> mountain plant likely to be growing in the Lesser Himalayas. But the >>> Orissa manuscripts read arusy?nam. >>> >>> >>> --- On Tue, 23/3/10, George Hart wrote: >>> >>> >>> From: George Hart >>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" >>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>> Date: Tuesday, 23 March, 2010, 8:50 PM >>> >>> >>> Apparently another name of the a?iccam is aruppalam, which looks as >>> if it could be have a Prakrit or Sanskrit origin (arpala, rupala?) >>> but I can't find anything in those languages. G. Hart >>> >>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: >>> >>>> Is it still common? The lajjaavatii or laajawantii was very common >>>> along rail tracks even in the seventies. But since its arrival, >>>> allegedly from Canada in 1973, the parthenium has spread like wild >>>> fire along the ancient EIR route and the parallel Grand Trunk Road >>>> destroying the common lajjaavatii. >>>> Best >>>> DB >>>> >>>> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, venetia ansell wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> From: venetia ansell >>>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" >>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>>> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 11:40 AM >>>> >>>> >>>> Mimosa pudica is certainly very common in Karnataka - it's called >>>> chhui mui >>>> in Hindi, mutthidaremuni in Kannada I think, and lajjaa (as in >>>> bashfulness) >>>> in Sanskrit. >>>> >>>> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya < >>>> dbhattacharya2004 at yahoo.co.in> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Mimosa pudica is Thottalvadi in Tamil not aniccam. >>>>> Best >>>>> DB >>>>> >>>>> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, Dominic Goodall >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: Dominic Goodall >>>>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?" >>>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>>>> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 9:01 AM >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This reminds me that in the hills in the South today one finds >>>>> plenty of >>>>> Mimosa pudica, whose leaves temporarily fold up the second that >>>>> you touch >>>>> them, or indeed blow on them. >>>>> >>>>> But I am not sure how long these plants have been growing there, >>>>> for the >>>>> Pandanus website (http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/), >>>>> quoting Dymock, Warden, Hooper: Pharmacographia Indica, vol. I, pp. >>>>> 538-539, calls Mimosa pudica a "native of Brazil long naturalized >>>>> in India". >>>>> >>>>> Dominic Goodall >>>>> >>>>> On 21 Mar 2010, at 21:39, Michael Witzel wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the little >>>>> yellow flower, called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in Latin. >>>>>> >>>>>> For some details see: >>>>>> >>>>> (also in N. India) >>>>>> >>>>>> (Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch). >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> MW >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Whitney, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The >>>>>>> emphasis >>>>> is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I wonder >>>>> whether the >>>>> flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone smells it) >>>>> fascinated the >>>>> poet. Maybe one could find a similar flower somewhere -- I hope! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>>> VSR >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear Rajam, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly "super >>>>>>>> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of the >>>>>>>> name >>>>>>>> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than >>>>>>>> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing). >>>>>>>> However, >>>>>>>> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Whitney >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam wrote: >>>>>>>>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named >>>>> "aniccha" in >>>>>>>>> any non-Tamil literature? >>>>>>>>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. >>>>>>>>> Later on, >>>>> the >>>>>>>>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would >>>>>>>>> wilt at >>>>> the >>>>>>>>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a >>>>>>>>> slender >>>>> waist] if >>>>>>>>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a + >>>>>>>>> iccha >>>>> (a + >>>>>>>>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in >>>>>>>>> non-Tamil >>>>> poetry >>>>>>>>> for such super sensitivity? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>>>>> V.S. Rajam >>>>>>>>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dr. Whitney Cox >>>>>>>> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, >>>>>>>> School of Oriental and African Studies >>>>>>>> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square >>>>>>>> London WC1H 0XG >>>>>> >>>>>> ============ >>>>>> Michael Witzel >>>>>> witzel at fas.harvard.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University >>>>>> 1 Bow Street, >>>>>> Cambridge MA 02138, USA >>>>>> >>>>>> phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; >>>>>> my direct line: 617- 496 2990 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! >>>>> Homepage. >>>>> http://in.yahoo.com/ >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it >>>> NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ >>> >>> >>> >>> Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it >>> NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Wed Mar 24 18:33:49 2010 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 10 19:33:49 +0100 Subject: Berlin 1881 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089013.23782.3792719053771345106.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1864 Lines: 54 Will Sweetman has pointed me to: : http://www.archive.org/details/verhandlungende03unkngoog It certainly appears from p 8 here that Kern was not there (although Speyer was--this was from his days in Amsterdam--he came to Leiden only after Kern's death, I believe). It is somewhat awe-inspiring to read the list of attendees... Thanks so much--I think this answers my immediate question. Though now I wonder why Kern was not there--he is mentioned in the minutes as being one of the people who should organize the next meeting were it to be held in Leiden. thanks so much!! jonathan On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Jonathan Silk wrote: > Friends, > > I wonder if someone who has the proceedings of the Fifth International > Congress of Orientalists held in Berlin in 1881 on his or her bed-side table > (!) would be willing to look up something for me (it appears that while our > library has the volumes for the 4th and 6th, we don't have the 5th). Is > there a list or index of attendees/participants? I know that the Japanese > scholar Bunyiu Nanjio (Bunyu Nanjo) attended, along with his teacher Max > M?ller. What I am interested to know is if Hendrik Kern was also there. I > think he must have been, but at least the bibliography I have does not list > a publication of his lecture (as it does for example for his contribution to > the 6th meeting of the same congress). I am trying to find out if the two, > Nanjo and Kern, might have met there. (Sadly, the correspondence files of > both respective scholars were destroyed, so I can't track any letters they > would have exchanged.) > > With best thanks in advance, Jonathan > > -- > J. Silk > Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden > Postbus 9515 > 2300 RA Leiden > Netherlands > -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From sasamp at NUS.EDU.SG Thu Mar 25 01:35:08 2010 From: sasamp at NUS.EDU.SG (A.M. Pinkney) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 10 09:35:08 +0800 Subject: Hindi Lectureship at National University of Singapore Message-ID: <161227089018.23782.8125626240919447091.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2732 Lines: 38 Centre for Language Studies National University of Singapore The National University of Singapore (NUS) invites applications for the following full-time faculty position in the Centre for Language Studies: Lecturer for Hindi Language. The Centre, a centre under the Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences, currently teaches twelve languages, mainly to undergraduates at elementary, intermediate and advanced levels. Applicants must be fluent in or have near native competency in Hindi and English. They should have a relevant Master?s degree from a reputed institution with at least three years of experience in teaching Hindi as a foreign language and curriculum development. Skills/knowledge/experience in the application of IT to language teaching and/or research in Hindi as a foreign language would be an advantage. Experience in teaching students from a wide range of linguistic backgrounds would be an asset. The appointee will assume the role of Convenor for Hindi language programme. Duties will include a wide range of teaching and developmental tasks for lectures and tutorials as well as the management of the Hindi language programme. Appointment will be made on a three-year contract, renewable subject to mutual agreement. Remuneration will be commensurate with qualifications and experience. Standard leave and medical benefits are provided. For expatriate staff, a housing allowance may also be payable. Applicants may contact the Centre if they have any queries. Applications are to be made in English. Those interested in the position should send a cover letter, a CV, a brief teaching philosophy statement, representative samples of self-developed teaching/learning material, copies of educational certificates and the names and contact information (postal and e-mail addresses, and fax numbers) of three academic referees to: The Director Centre for Language Studies Faculty of Arts & Social Sciences National University of Singapore #02-05, AS4, 9 Arts Link Singapore 117570 Tel: 6516-6346 Fax: 6777-7736 Email: clssec at nus.edu.sg Review of applications will begin from April 19, 2010, and will continue until the position has been filled. Only shortlisted candidates will be notified. Visit our website at http://www.fas.nus.edu.sg/cls/ for an official notice of the position and for information on the Centre and http://www.nus.edu.sg for information on the University. __________________________________________________________________________ Andrea Marion Pinkney Assistant Professor South Asian Studies Programme National University of Singapore 5 Arts Link, AS7-04-03 Singapore 117570 Phone: +65 6516.7776 Email: sasamp at nus.edu.sg http://www.fas.nus.edu.sg/sas/people/andreapinkney.html From andrew.ollett at LING-PHIL.OX.AC.UK Thu Mar 25 20:01:11 2010 From: andrew.ollett at LING-PHIL.OX.AC.UK (Andrew Ollett) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 10 16:01:11 -0400 Subject: arthur tomson's ratnama=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=B1j=C5=AB=E1=B9=A3=C4=81?= Message-ID: <161227089020.23782.5431973443569596118.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 560 Lines: 24 list members, in this article: @INCOLLECTION{Tripathi1977, author = {Chandrabhal Tripathi}, title = {{Ratnama?j??? and `Chandoviciti'}}, booktitle = {Beitr?ge zur Indienforschung}, publisher = {Museum f?r indische Kunst}, year = {1977}, pages = {549-560}, address = {Berlin}, } i encountered a few references to an edition of the ratnama?j???, a sanskrit work on metrics, then under preparation by arthur tomson in berlin, who had written his MA dissertation on it. does anyone know what happened to it? thanks in advance. andrew ollett From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Thu Mar 25 20:21:10 2010 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 10 21:21:10 +0100 Subject: arthur tomson's ratnama=?utf-8?Q?=C3=B1j=C5=AB=E1=B9=A3_=C4=81?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089022.23782.5859424893343241766.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 847 Lines: 28 Am 25.03.2010 um 21:01 schrieb Andrew Ollett: > i encountered a few references to an edition of the ratnama?j???, a sanskrit > work on metrics, then under preparation by arthur tomson in berlin, who had > written his MA dissertation on it. does anyone know what happened to it? There is, at least, one copy in the library of the FU Berlin, the catalogue entry runs: Tomson, Arthur : Ratnam?njusa : adhyaya 1 - 2 / Arthur Tomson, 1976. - 71 Bl. Berlin, Freie Univ., Diss., 1976 Bestand: UB, Signatur: 34/76/60632(7), Standort: MAG-D, Since it is not found elsewhere: I guess, it's not really a "dissertation" as indicated by the bibliographical description but rather the M.A. thesis. Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Abteilung f?r Indologie Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Fri Mar 26 04:40:51 2010 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 10 21:40:51 -0700 Subject: Text processing in Unicode In-Reply-To: <162356.90889.qm@web8606.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227089031.23782.589057257650063372.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3981 Lines: 121 This may also happen based on the specific operating system. I use an old OS X (10.4)-based Mac PowerBook G4. I copied a small paragraph and have pasted it below. It seems to have turned out fine (except for a couple of minor glitches -- with respect to the letters r and ai). The latest OS may have resolved this problem: =============== ????????? ?????? ??????? ??????????? ?????????????? "??????????" ??????? ?????????????? ????? ??????????, ???? ??????, ??, ?????? 11,25, ??????????? 15 ???? ????? ????????? ????? ????????? ??????????? ??? ? ????????. ?????????? ??????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ?????? ???????. ????????? ????? ????????????. ================== As for searching, the typing into the search field may pose a problem, since the keyboard may be different and the ASCII values are not properly read-in. The best way is to copy an instance of the desired item and paste it into the search field and hit the Enter/ Return key as we go along. Best, --vsr On Mar 25, 2010, at 9:19 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > I can speak of two problems. The characters/signs are sometimes > dispersed when saved in MSWord and a systematic replacement of the > signs in the keyboard. The seond problem rises because of > unintended bad programming during processing and can be removed by > restarting.the computer. The first problem rises only when some > editing is attempted in the MS Word format ie not in the Indian > script processor. I avoid editing such files in MSWord formaat. > Best > DB > > --- On Fri, 26/3/10, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan > wrote: > > > From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan > Subject: Text processing in Unicode > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Friday, 26 March, 2010, 8:41 AM > > > Dear Indologists, > > I am seeing some problems in text processing in Tamil texts created > using Unicode fonts. > Consider the following text in Project Madurai. > http://www.projectmadurai.org/pm_etexts/pdf/pm0323.pdf > > According to the cover page, "This pdf file is based on Unicode > with corresponding Latha font embedded in the file. Hence this file > can be viewed and printed on all computer platforms: Windows, > Macintosh and Unix without the need to have the font installed in > your computer." > > When I searched the text for the string ???? (tAn2), I hit > not only ???? but also ???? (tOn2) ! > > Has anyone processing (searching, sorting) Unicode texts in > Sanskrit or other Indian languages encountered any problems like > the above? > > (Needless to say, when one copies the text from PDF and pastes in > email, one gets messed up text like this. ??????? > ?????? ????? ???? > ????????? ????????? > ???? ?????? ???????? > ????????? > ???????????????. ?????? > ???????????? ???????? > ????? ??????????????.) > > (However, a draft report by an Expert Committee on Technology > Standards for Indian Languages > (http://egovstandards.gov.in/apex-review/egscontent. > 2009-06-10.5999916108/at_download/file) claims: > ? All major operating systems, browsers, editors, word processors > and other applications & tools are supporting Unicode. > ? It is possible to use Indian languages and scripts in the > Unicode environment, which will resolve the compatibility issue. > ? The documents created using Unicode may be searched very easily > on the web. > ? As Unicode is widely recognized all over the world and also > supporting Indian languages, it will ease Localization applications > including e-Governance application > for all the constitutionally recognized Indian languages. > ? Since Indian languages are also used in the other part of the > world, it is possible to have Global data exchange.) > > Thanks in advance. > > Regards, > Palaniappan > > > > Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it > NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From palaniappa at AOL.COM Fri Mar 26 03:11:28 2010 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 10 22:11:28 -0500 Subject: Text processing in Unicode Message-ID: <161227089025.23782.3971969042226076393.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1885 Lines: 30 Dear Indologists, I am seeing some problems in text processing in Tamil texts created using Unicode fonts. Consider the following text in Project Madurai. http://www.projectmadurai.org/pm_etexts/pdf/pm0323.pdf According to the cover page, "This pdf file is based on Unicode with corresponding Latha font embedded in the file. Hence this file can be viewed and printed on all computer platforms: Windows, Macintosh and Unix without the need to have the font installed in your computer." When I searched the text for the string ???? (tAn2), I hit not only ???? but also ???? (tOn2) ! Has anyone processing (searching, sorting) Unicode texts in Sanskrit or other Indian languages encountered any problems like the above? (Needless to say, when one copies the text from PDF and pastes in email, one gets messed up text like this. ??????? ?????? ????? ???? ????????? ????????? ???? ?????? ???????? ????????? ???????????????. ?????? ???????????? ???????? ????? ??????????????.) (However, a draft report by an Expert Committee on Technology Standards for Indian Languages (http://egovstandards.gov.in/apex-review/egscontent.2009-06-10.5999916108/at_download/file) claims: ? All major operating systems, browsers, editors, word processors and other applications & tools are supporting Unicode. ? It is possible to use Indian languages and scripts in the Unicode environment, which will resolve the compatibility issue. ? The documents created using Unicode may be searched very easily on the web. ? As Unicode is widely recognized all over the world and also supporting Indian languages, it will ease Localization applications including e-Governance application for all the constitutionally recognized Indian languages. ? Since Indian languages are also used in the other part of the world, it is possible to have Global data exchange.) Thanks in advance. Regards, Palaniappan From annamisia at YAHOO.COM Fri Mar 26 13:20:01 2010 From: annamisia at YAHOO.COM (Anna A. Slaczka) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 10 06:20:01 -0700 Subject: Kalika-purana in e-form In-Reply-To: <727264.93737.qm@web45615.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227089039.23782.6201318896588327882.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1574 Lines: 59 Dear Victoria, I don't know about full text but if you haven't found anything yet and if you are really desperate, try Google Books. Large parts of the Kalika purana and its English translation are there. Best regards, Anna. Dr. Anna A. Slaczka Curator Indian Art Rijksmuseum Amsterdam, The Netherlands --- On Sun, 3/21/10, Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez wrote: > From: Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez > Subject: Re: Kalika-purana in e-form > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Sunday, March 21, 2010, 3:57 PM > Dear Madam: > Could you fine persona said me what is e-form? I want to > help your quest. > Lic. M.A. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez > Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad > Internacional Euroamericana. > Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada. > Miembro del Instituto de Estudios Filos?ficos de Saltillo > A. C. > www.uie.edu.es > > > --- El dom 21-mar-10, Viktoria Lyssenko > escribi?: > > > De:: Viktoria Lyssenko > > Asunto: Kalika-purana in e-form > > A: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Fecha: domingo, 21 de marzo de 2010, 14:44 > > Dear Colleagues, > > One of my students needs an English translation of > > Kalika-purana in e-form. Could anybody help? > > Victoria Lysenko, > > Research fellow, > > Institute of philosophy, > > Russian Academy of Sciences > > > > > ? ? ? Encuentra las mejores recetas en > Yahoo! Cocina.? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ??? > http://mx.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/ > From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Fri Mar 26 14:16:54 2010 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 10 07:16:54 -0700 Subject: A misconception regarding the PDF format (Re: Text processing in Unicode In-Reply-To: <4BAC6581.6080807@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <161227089042.23782.14969950059148387477.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 574 Lines: 4 I have been playing around with unicode in both Tamil and Devanagari. On the Mac (Snow Leopard), it is not possible to search pdf's in either writing system -- nor is it possible to use Acrobat to export such files into rtf or other editable format. Using Nisus on the Mac, searching works perfectly for both writing systems, and Rajam's problem does not appear. Many documents are available as pdf's, and it is quite important that they be searchable. Unfortunately, that is not the case at this point with at least two important Indic writing systems. George Hart From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Fri Mar 26 07:42:57 2010 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 10 08:42:57 +0100 Subject: A misconception regarding the PDF format (Re: Text processing in Unicode In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089034.23782.2073222240275863162.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4158 Lines: 99 Dear S. Palaniappan, I don't think it is really appropriate for you to begin to export to this Indological forum the violent infighting which exists inside the Tamil community, in which a minority strongly opposes the use of Unicode, and wants to promote an ad hoc encoding, in the Private User Area, which will bring the Tamil Communicity back to the Stone Age of Pre-Unicode days. Why do you not limit your search to HTML encoded pages? The PDF format was not primarily invented for being a text storage format and it has never been guaranteed that round-trip conversions is always possible between PDF files and text files. PDF files are "E-paper". You might as well ask for the possibility of having round-trip conversions between .DVI files and text files. The reason why many pages on Tamil government sites clumsily use PDF rather than HTML is that a powerful lobby has been preventing rational behaviour, sometimes claiming that the Unicode consortium does not recognize the linguistic specificities of "Dravidian" and sometimes acccusing the Unicode Consortium of being the new "East India Company" :-( The fact that pasting from a PDF file to a plain text file does not routinely work can certainly NOT be described as a "major" defect of Unicode, as some uninformed people have kept repeating (and as a reason for the Tamil government not to use Unicode) Sorry for being so blunt in my statements but I have seen for several months hundreds of misleading paranoid statements in several Tamil mailing lists against Unicode, repeated AD NAUSEAM and the idea that this is all going to start here in this academic list is very unpleasant to say the least. That Unicode has been invented is certainly a MIRACLE, which could not be predicted 30 years ago. If the Tamil communicity wanted to use their political clout in a useful way, they could lobby for the grantha script to be quickly implemented inside the Unicode standard, in order to make the miracle even more of a miracle. That would allow for the easy reprint of all the Vaishnava Manipravalam commentaries. That would be useful indeed. Have a nice day! -- Jean-Luc Chevillard Le 3/26/2010 4:11 AM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan a ?crit : > Dear Indologists, > > I am seeing some problems in text processing in Tamil texts created using Unicode fonts. > Consider the following text in Project Madurai. > http://www.projectmadurai.org/pm_etexts/pdf/pm0323.pdf > > According to the cover page, "This pdf file is based on Unicode with corresponding Latha font embedded in the file. Hence this file can be viewed and printed on all computer platforms: Windows, Macintosh and Unix without the need to have the font installed in your computer." > > When I searched the text for the string ???? (tAn2), I hit not only ???? but also ???? (tOn2) ! > > Has anyone processing (searching, sorting) Unicode texts in Sanskrit or other Indian languages encountered any problems like the above? > > (Needless to say, when one copies the text from PDF and pastes in email, one gets messed up text like this. ??????? ?????? ????? ???? ????????? ????????? ???? ?????? ???????? ????????? ???????????????. ?????? ???????????? ???????? ????? ??????????????.) > > (However, a draft report by an Expert Committee on Technology Standards for Indian Languages > (http://egovstandards.gov.in/apex-review/egscontent.2009-06-10.5999916108/at_download/file) claims: > ? All major operating systems, browsers, editors, word processors and other applications& tools are supporting Unicode. > ? It is possible to use Indian languages and scripts in the Unicode environment, which will resolve the compatibility issue. > ? The documents created using Unicode may be searched very easily on the web. > ? As Unicode is widely recognized all over the world and also supporting Indian languages, it will ease Localization applications including e-Governance application > for all the constitutionally recognized Indian languages. > ? Since Indian languages are also used in the other part of the world, it is possible to have Global data exchange.) > > Thanks in advance. > > Regards, > Palaniappan > > From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Fri Mar 26 04:19:26 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 10 09:49:26 +0530 Subject: Text processing in Unicode In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089027.23782.5485389300167361639.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2712 Lines: 47 I can speak of two problems. The characters/signs are sometimes dispersed when saved in MSWord and a systematic replacement of the signs in the keyboard. The seond problem rises because of unintended bad programming during processing and can be removed by restarting.the computer. The first problem rises only when some editing is attempted in the MS Word format ie? not in the Indian script processor. I avoid editing such files in MSWord formaat. Best DB --- On Fri, 26/3/10, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan Subject: Text processing in Unicode To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Friday, 26 March, 2010, 8:41 AM Dear Indologists, I am seeing some problems in text processing in Tamil texts created using Unicode fonts. Consider the following text in Project Madurai. http://www.projectmadurai.org/pm_etexts/pdf/pm0323.pdf According to the cover page, "This pdf file is based on Unicode with corresponding Latha font embedded in the file. Hence this file can be viewed and printed on all computer platforms: Windows, Macintosh and Unix without the need to have the font installed in your computer." When I searched the text for the string ???? (tAn2), I hit not only ???? but also ???? (tOn2) ! Has anyone processing (searching, sorting) Unicode texts in Sanskrit or other Indian languages encountered any problems like the above? (Needless to say, when one copies the text from PDF and pastes in email, one gets messed up text like this. ??????? ?????? ????? ???? ????????? ????????? ??????? ?????? ???????? ????????? ???????????????. ?????? ???????????? ???????? ????? ??????????????.) (However, a draft report by an Expert Committee on Technology Standards for Indian Languages (http://egovstandards.gov.in/apex-review/egscontent.2009-06-10.5999916108/at_download/file) claims: ? All major operating systems, browsers, editors, word processors and other applications & tools are supporting Unicode. ? It is possible to use Indian languages and scripts in the Unicode environment, which will resolve the compatibility issue. ? The documents created using Unicode may be searched very easily on the web. ? As Unicode is widely recognized all over the world and also supporting Indian languages, it will ease Localization applications including e-Governance application for all the constitutionally recognized Indian languages. ? Since Indian languages are also used in the other part of the world, it is possible to have Global data exchange.) Thanks in advance. Regards, Palaniappan Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Fri Mar 26 12:51:34 2010 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 10 13:51:34 +0100 Subject: GRETIL update #368 Message-ID: <161227089037.23782.10478190464700637731.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 856 Lines: 32 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Mahasahasrapramardani Mahasitavati-Dharani Pratisarakalpadharani Varataracan, M.: Collin Katai __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Fri Mar 26 21:33:30 2010 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 10 14:33:30 -0700 Subject: A misconception regarding the PDF format (Re: Text processing in Unicode In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089046.23782.9838950454113335795.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1846 Lines: 41 PDF documents are searchable--but we have to abide by the rules of the PDF technology or we should device our own technique to get around them. We need to respect the technology (PDF or other) which has its own characteristics as any other software in the industry. I agree with JLC that PDF files are "E-paper" and the format was not "primarily invented for being a text storage format and it has never been guaranteed that round-trip conversions is always possible between PDF files and text files." I'd like to add that expecting something "post-inventional" won't help us unless we do something about it -- for example, tell the creators/inventors of the software what we want to see the software do for us now or in the future. That's why the IT world has "tech support" departments and "feedback" channels. Most importantly, I feel that our wishes like this one (that PDF documents should "be searchable") would be more effective if we direct them to the IT industry (for example to Adobe or any PDF developers) rather than expressing them only here in an academic forum as if we are just complaining about technology. --vsr () On Mar 26, 2010, at 7:16 AM, George Hart wrote: > I have been playing around with unicode in both Tamil and > Devanagari. On the Mac (Snow Leopard), it is not possible to > search pdf's in either writing system -- nor is it possible to use > Acrobat to export such files into rtf or other editable format. > Using Nisus on the Mac, searching works perfectly for both writing > systems, and Rajam's problem does not appear. Many documents are > available as pdf's, and it is quite important that they be > searchable. Unfortunately, that is not the case at this point with > at least two important Indic writing systems. George Hart From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Fri Mar 26 23:27:56 2010 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 10 16:27:56 -0700 Subject: A misconception regarding the PDF format (Re: Text processing in Unicode In-Reply-To: <3BB96C3F-C1D3-472F-9378-4A077961BFED@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <161227089049.23782.12847356256100896007.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2317 Lines: 56 Just wanted to make sure that we understand the principle behind the acronym PDF ( "Printable Document Format"). So, if we want to have a searchable PDF, we should ask the powers that are in the IT industry to develop something like an "SPDF" ("Searchable Printable Document Format"). Hope you can understand what I mean. Best, --vsr () On Mar 26, 2010, at 2:33 PM, rajam wrote: > PDF documents are searchable--but we have to abide by the rules of > the PDF technology or we should device our own technique to get > around them. > > We need to respect the technology (PDF or other) which has its own > characteristics as any other software in the industry. > > I agree with JLC that PDF files are "E-paper" and the format was > not "primarily invented for being a text storage format and it has > never been guaranteed that round-trip conversions is always > possible between PDF files and text files." > > I'd like to add that expecting something "post-inventional" won't > help us unless we do something about it -- for example, tell the > creators/inventors of the software what we want to see the software > do for us now or in the future. That's why the IT world has "tech > support" departments and "feedback" channels. > > Most importantly, I feel that our wishes like this one (that PDF > documents should "be searchable") would be more effective if we > direct them to the IT industry (for example to Adobe or any PDF > developers) rather than expressing them only here in an academic > forum as if we are just complaining about technology. > > --vsr > () > > On Mar 26, 2010, at 7:16 AM, George Hart wrote: > >> I have been playing around with unicode in both Tamil and >> Devanagari. On the Mac (Snow Leopard), it is not possible to >> search pdf's in either writing system -- nor is it possible to use >> Acrobat to export such files into rtf or other editable format. >> Using Nisus on the Mac, searching works perfectly for both writing >> systems, and Rajam's problem does not appear. Many documents are >> available as pdf's, and it is quite important that they be >> searchable. Unfortunately, that is not the case at this point >> with at least two important Indic writing systems. George Hart From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Sat Mar 27 03:08:23 2010 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 10 20:08:23 -0700 Subject: Definition of PDF (Re: A misconception regarding the PDF format (Re: Text processing in Unicode) In-Reply-To: <403D9AA1-02FA-4204-99C7-6B09CE4E3F76@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <161227089051.23782.181994220343776697.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2574 Lines: 66 sorry, I meant to say "Portable Document Format" not "Printable Document Format" as the expansion of PDF. Please make a note. Thanks, --vsr On Mar 26, 2010, at 4:27 PM, rajam wrote: > Just wanted to make sure that we understand the principle behind > the acronym PDF ( "Printable Document Format"). > > So, if we want to have a searchable PDF, we should ask the powers > that are in the IT industry to develop something like an > "SPDF" ("Searchable Printable Document Format"). > > Hope you can understand what I mean. > > Best, > --vsr > () > > On Mar 26, 2010, at 2:33 PM, rajam wrote: > >> PDF documents are searchable--but we have to abide by the rules of >> the PDF technology or we should device our own technique to get >> around them. >> >> We need to respect the technology (PDF or other) which has its own >> characteristics as any other software in the industry. >> >> I agree with JLC that PDF files are "E-paper" and the format was >> not "primarily invented for being a text storage format and it has >> never been guaranteed that round-trip conversions is always >> possible between PDF files and text files." >> >> I'd like to add that expecting something "post-inventional" won't >> help us unless we do something about it -- for example, tell the >> creators/inventors of the software what we want to see the >> software do for us now or in the future. That's why the IT world >> has "tech support" departments and "feedback" channels. >> >> Most importantly, I feel that our wishes like this one (that PDF >> documents should "be searchable") would be more effective if we >> direct them to the IT industry (for example to Adobe or any PDF >> developers) rather than expressing them only here in an academic >> forum as if we are just complaining about technology. >> >> --vsr >> () >> >> On Mar 26, 2010, at 7:16 AM, George Hart wrote: >> >>> I have been playing around with unicode in both Tamil and >>> Devanagari. On the Mac (Snow Leopard), it is not possible to >>> search pdf's in either writing system -- nor is it possible to >>> use Acrobat to export such files into rtf or other editable >>> format. Using Nisus on the Mac, searching works perfectly for >>> both writing systems, and Rajam's problem does not appear. Many >>> documents are available as pdf's, and it is quite important that >>> they be searchable. Unfortunately, that is not the case at this >>> point with at least two important Indic writing systems. George >>> Hart From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Fri Mar 26 21:27:57 2010 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 10 22:27:57 +0100 Subject: A misconception regarding the PDF format (Re: Text processing in Unicode In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089044.23782.12128085791434259988.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2047 Lines: 49 Dear George, you write "Many documents are available as pdf's, and it is quite important that they be searchable." It is not very clear (to me) to whom this YOUR QUERY is adressed. Is it ADRESSED to the millions of users (on this planet) who have created those (printable) PDF-s (and who may also have simultaneously created searchable HTML or XML files)? Are you telling them to RESTRAIN FROM creating PDF-s as long as PDFs are not all GOOGLE-searchable? (although they may have created those PDFs simply for the purpose of printing) OR is your message adressed to the creators of the Acrobat/PDF format? [it is not absolutely clear to me whether the ADOBE company owns the definition of the format] Do you want to the creators of the PDF format to set as a future goal [for the future releases of the PDF format] that there should be an UNFAILING possibility to make roundtrips between TEXT and PDF formats ? Do you want the Unicode Consortium to suspend its existence until everybody on the planet is able to see how UNCREDIBLY useful they have been? Please clarify. -- Jean-Luc Post-Scriptum: I have been trying to express this jokingly [no offense is meant to anyone!], but the truth is that I am really WORRIED to see the word "E-governance" making its appearance on an academic list (SEE the (almost) last line ). Le 3/26/2010 3:16 PM, George Hart a ?crit : > I have been playing around with unicode in both Tamil and Devanagari. On the Mac (Snow Leopard), it is not possible to search pdf's in either writing system -- nor is it possible to use Acrobat to export such files into rtf or other editable format. Using Nisus on the Mac, searching works perfectly for both writing systems, and Rajam's problem does not appear. Many documents are available as pdf's, and it is quite important that they be searchable. Unfortunately, that is not the case at this point with at least two important Indic writing systems. George Hart > From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Sat Mar 27 14:17:08 2010 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 10 10:17:08 -0400 Subject: Prayogaparijata of Nrsimha Message-ID: <161227089054.23782.4192524362114930398.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2606 Lines: 72 Dear Colleagues, Does anyone have access to a digital copy of the Prayogaparijata of Nrsirmha? I believe I saw a pothi print copy in Pune with the Late Kinjavadekar Shastri, but I see no library entries for it on the web. I see references to it in manuscript catalogues. But any digital version? Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Jonathan Silk [kauzeya at GMAIL.COM] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 2:33 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Berlin 1881 Will Sweetman has pointed me to: : http://www.archive.org/details/verhandlungende03unkngoog It certainly appears from p 8 here that Kern was not there (although Speyer was--this was from his days in Amsterdam--he came to Leiden only after Kern's death, I believe). It is somewhat awe-inspiring to read the list of attendees... Thanks so much--I think this answers my immediate question. Though now I wonder why Kern was not there--he is mentioned in the minutes as being one of the people who should organize the next meeting were it to be held in Leiden. thanks so much!! jonathan On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Jonathan Silk wrote: > Friends, > > I wonder if someone who has the proceedings of the Fifth International > Congress of Orientalists held in Berlin in 1881 on his or her bed-side table > (!) would be willing to look up something for me (it appears that while our > library has the volumes for the 4th and 6th, we don't have the 5th). Is > there a list or index of attendees/participants? I know that the Japanese > scholar Bunyiu Nanjio (Bunyu Nanjo) attended, along with his teacher Max > M?ller. What I am interested to know is if Hendrik Kern was also there. I > think he must have been, but at least the bibliography I have does not list > a publication of his lecture (as it does for example for his contribution to > the 6th meeting of the same congress). I am trying to find out if the two, > Nanjo and Kern, might have met there. (Sadly, the correspondence files of > both respective scholars were destroyed, so I can't track any letters they > would have exchanged.) > > With best thanks in advance, Jonathan > > -- > J. Silk > Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden > Postbus 9515 > 2300 RA Leiden > Netherlands > -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From palaniappa at AOL.COM Sun Mar 28 01:16:07 2010 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 10 20:16:07 -0500 Subject: A misconception regarding the PDF format (Re: Text processing in Unicode In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089056.23782.15898548717396147803.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2500 Lines: 22 Dear George, I agree with you wholeheartedly that PDF documents in Tamil, Sanskrit, and other Indian languages be searchable. Whatever might have been the origin of PDF, today across all levels of government and business in US, PDFs in English are used to store textual materials. Most solicitations, RFPs, and RFQs, and supporting documents are posted and stored as PDFs. These are used by the responding businesses to develop proposals. Without the ability to search these PDFs, many business development and sales functions in private sector will slow down significantly. Almost inevitably, text from these PDFs are copied and pasted into Word to create new Word dand PDF documents such as proposals. Business developers do it routinely. The text from such PDFs are also copied and inserted in email correspondence between business firms who are team members responding to an RFP. It is done all the time. Portability of data between PDFs and other applications is a must these days. PDF, Word, and email do not function as silos in government and business. Here is a case study of Nuance implementation at US Department of Defense, http://WWW.NUANCE.COM/imaging/pdf/cs_PDF_DefenseContract.pdf . The following text gas been copied and pasted from the PDF document. "To streamline their information workflows, one of the major U.S. DoD agencies looked to the power of PDF. They needed an affordable tool that would allow them to turn paper into fully searchable digital documents that could be easily re-purposed, secured and archived. They also needed the ability to work with static PDF forms (paper forms which have been scanned) and make them fillable as well as annotate and edit PDF documents if necessary." Calling PDF 'E-Paper' is not accurate any more in the real world. Of course, I reached the PDF document using Google search. Regards, Palaniappan On Mar 26, 2010, at 9:16 AM, George Hart wrote: > I have been playing around with unicode in both Tamil and Devanagari. On the Mac (Snow Leopard), it is not possible to search pdf's in either writing system -- nor is it possible to use Acrobat to export such files into rtf or other editable format. Using Nisus on the Mac, searching works perfectly for both writing systems, and Rajam's problem does not appear. Many documents are available as pdf's, and it is quite important that they be searchable. Unfortunately, that is not the case at this point with at least two important Indic writing systems. George Hart= From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Mar 28 12:42:46 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 10 14:42:46 +0200 Subject: A misconception regarding the PDF format (Re: Text processing in Unicode In-Reply-To: <4BAD26DD.7070304@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <161227089059.23782.90732941252960487.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 507 Lines: 17 Very impressionistically - I haven't done any real test testing - my experience is that if I use Unicode for my source file, then I get a Unicode PDF. So I can cut-and-paste and get all the diacritics. And if I do "save as" plain text from PDF, I get a plain text file that's correctly Unicode too. I'm using XeTeX. Best, Dominik PS Zdenek Wagner has done successful but still experimental work on getting TeX + Velthuis Devnag => searchable Devanagari PDFs. Cf. http://sarovar.org/projects/devnag/ From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Sun Mar 28 23:19:08 2010 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 10 16:19:08 -0700 Subject: Gandhari Unicode Message-ID: <161227089061.23782.389227669167961940.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1319 Lines: 36 Many of us may have legacy texts encoded in a home-grown font from the pre-Web era. And, I 'm sure you (just like me) have started to put them in Unicode. For my part, I've started converting my legacy texts (in transliteration) to Gandhari Unicode, which I find quite easy to use. I downloaded it from the "Early Buddhist Manuscript Project" page (U of Washington) at: http://www.ebmp.org/p_dwnlds.php . The installation instructions are easy and the installation process is smooth. Keyboarding is easy too. (I heard that Gentium is an excellent font as well for rendering transliterated texts.) For Tamil, I use the built-in Unicode font that comes with the respective operating system (Mac or PC). Although a bit tedious and slow due to the heavy volume, I have been able to write macros and convert my legacy texts to Gandhari Unicode and Tamil Unicode. Once you have your texts in Unicode, it's easy to use them as you like. They interface well with modern technology -- HTML/XML, JavaScript, PHP, PDF, ... . (Also, it should be easy to convert from one typeface to another within Unicode.) You can see some samples at my site: http://letsgrammar.org/ proto.html (click on the links for Project 2 and Project 3 and go from there) Regards, V.S. Rajam () From mahesrajpant at MSN.COM Mon Mar 29 04:03:02 2010 From: mahesrajpant at MSN.COM (Mahes Raj Pant) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 10 06:03:02 +0200 Subject: Feminine of vipra Message-ID: <161227089063.23782.11328319457806122859.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 475 Lines: 17 Dear List members Though both Monier-Williams and Macdonell have the entry of viprA as the feminine of vipra in their respective dictionaries, I do not remember its usage in literature. Could you enlighten me in this matter? I look forward to hearing you. Sincerely yours Mahes Raj Pant _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Mon Mar 29 04:31:29 2010 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 10 10:01:29 +0530 Subject: Feminine of vipra In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089065.23782.3163046671491529438.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 943 Lines: 37 It seems to occur in accounts of miscegenation, for example this one from the end of the Vaikhaanasag.rhyasuutra: amba.s.thaad vipraayaa.m naavika.h, samudrapa.nyamatsyajiivii samudrala"nghanaa.m naava.m plaavayati. etc. Also Suprabhedaagama, kriyaapaada 2:60ab, this time with a different job-description: amba.s.thasya tu vipraayaa.m jaato vaapakav.rttika.h| Dominic Goodall On 29 Mar 2010, at 09:33, Mahes Raj Pant wrote: > Dear List members > > Though both Monier-Williams and Macdonell have the entry of viprA as > the feminine of vipra > in their respective dictionaries, I do not remember its usage in > literature. Could you enlighten me in this matter? > > I look forward to hearing you. > > Sincerely yours > > Mahes Raj Pant > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. > https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 From andrew.ollett at LING-PHIL.OX.AC.UK Mon Mar 29 14:44:20 2010 From: andrew.ollett at LING-PHIL.OX.AC.UK (Andrew Ollett) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 10 10:44:20 -0400 Subject: Feminine of vipra In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089067.23782.6851122075439980087.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1280 Lines: 47 in pr?k?tapi?gala 1.64 and g?th?lak?a?a 32, vipp? is named a variety of the ?ry?/g?th? meter (alongside to khatti??, vais?, and sudd?/suddi??); the editors (vyas and velankar respectively) have glossed it as vipr?. On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 12:31 AM, Dominic Goodall wrote: > It seems to occur in accounts of miscegenation, for example this one from > the end of the Vaikhaanasag.rhyasuutra: > > amba.s.thaad vipraayaa.m naavika.h, samudrapa.nyamatsyajiivii > samudrala"nghanaa.m naava.m plaavayati. > > etc. > > Also Suprabhedaagama, kriyaapaada 2:60ab, this time with a different > job-description: > > amba.s.thasya tu vipraayaa.m jaato vaapakav.rttika.h| > > > Dominic Goodall > > > On 29 Mar 2010, at 09:33, Mahes Raj Pant wrote: > > Dear List members >> >> Though both Monier-Williams and Macdonell have the entry of viprA as the >> feminine of vipra >> in their respective dictionaries, I do not remember its usage in >> literature. Could you enlighten me in this matter? >> >> I look forward to hearing you. >> >> Sincerely yours >> >> Mahes Raj Pant >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. >> https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 >> > From kiepue at T-ONLINE.DE Wed Mar 31 05:47:20 2010 From: kiepue at T-ONLINE.DE (=?utf-8?Q?petra_kieffer-P=C3=BClz?=) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 10 07:47:20 +0200 Subject: sa=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=B1=C3=B1=C4=81_nimitta=E1=B9=83_katt=C4=81_parim_=C4=81=E1=B9=87a=E1=B9=83_payojana=E1=B9=83?= Message-ID: <161227089070.23782.11905415740827152538.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1124 Lines: 45 Dear All, first thanks to all who helped me with the upodgh?ta? verse. I am now in search of a Sanskrit parallel for the verse from the Vajirabuddhi??k? cited below, or for a list of the five terms sa??? nimitta? katt? parim??a? payojana?. The only source for these five terms up to now is Candrak?rti (see Steinkellner, "Remarks on Tantristic Hermeneutics", Csoma de K?r?s Memorial Symposium, 1978), where they come under the first of the seven ala?k?ras, i.e. upodghata?, which form a group of exegetical tools used in interpreting Tantras. verse from Vjb 1,17-18 sa??? nimitta? katt? ca parim??a? payojana? sabb?gamassa pubbeva vattabba? vattu? icchat? ti the meaning of the terms in Vjb is as follows: sa??? = name of the text nimitta? = motive for writing the text katt? = author parim??a? = extent, length of the text payojana? = purpose of the text According to a v.l. in Vjb this verse is said for every Tantra (pavutt? sabbatant?na?) Every hint is welcome, Petra ************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2 99423 Weimar Germany Tel. 03643/770447 kiepue at t-online.de From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN Wed Mar 31 11:46:24 2010 From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 10 17:16:24 +0530 Subject: sa=?utf-8?Q?=C3=B1=C3=B1=C4=81_nimitta=E1=B9=83_katt=C4=81_parim_=C4=81=E1=B9=87a_=E1=B9=83_payojana=E1=B9=83?= In-Reply-To: <55DBECA0-37E4-4A86-AB87-0486AB6E3484@t-online.de> Message-ID: <161227089072.23782.884775760284223381.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1790 Lines: 55 Literally ?Name, occasion, author, extent, application ? should be told at the outset for every ?gama by one desirous of stating.? It seems to be a general statement on oral the recounting (composition?) of a scripture that was common. More details of the context are necessary for a definite idea. Best DB --- On Wed, 31/3/10, petra kieffer-P?lz wrote: From: petra kieffer-P?lz Subject: sa??? nimitta? katt? parim ??a? payojana? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 31 March, 2010, 11:17 AM Dear All, first thanks to all who helped me with the upodgh?ta? verse. I am now in search of a Sanskrit parallel for the verse? from the Vajirabuddhi??k? cited below, or for a list of the five terms sa??? nimitta? katt? parim??a? payojana?. The only source for these five terms up to now is Candrak?rti (see Steinkellner, "Remarks on Tantristic Hermeneutics", Csoma de K?r?s Memorial Symposium, 1978), where they come under the first of the seven ala?k?ras, i.e. upodghata?, which form a group of exegetical tools used in interpreting Tantras. verse from Vjb 1,17-18 sa??? nimitta? katt? ca parim??a? payojana? sabb?gamassa pubbeva vattabba? vattu? icchat? ti the meaning of the terms in Vjb is as follows: sa??? = name of the text nimitta? = motive for writing the text katt? = author parim??a? = extent, length of the text payojana? =? purpose of the text According to a v.l. in Vjb this verse is said for every Tantra (pavutt? sabbatant?na?) Every hint is welcome, Petra ************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2 99423 Weimar Germany Tel. 03643/770447 kiepue at t-online.de Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM Wed Mar 31 23:05:34 2010 From: mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 10 19:05:34 -0400 Subject: "da=?utf-8?Q?=E1=B9=87=E1=B8=8Da",_"halanta",_"vir_=C4=81ma",_"p=C5=ABr=E1=B9=87a-vir=C4=81ma"_and__"ardha-vir=C4=81ma"?= Message-ID: <161227089074.23782.9322565805307348091.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 813 Lines: 15 Dear Colleagues, Can someone make the distinction among the following terms clear with some more historical elucidations in the context of Sanskrit language? What has been the practice as far as Sanskrit (and not Hindi) is concerned and how it it different from Hindi construction? Is "vir?ma" also used in Hindi language as synonymous to "da??a" ? And as far as Sanskrit language is concerned if "vir?ma" or "da??a" (?) is synonymous to "halanta" then why do we use "da??a" after putting the "halanta" to the last consonant of the word in a sentence? I think I am in a real confusion. I would really appreciate if someone could make a distinction amongst the following terms; "da??a", "halanta", "vir?ma", "p?r?a-vir?ma" and "ardha-vir?ma" Thank you very much in advance. Yours sincerely, Mrinal Kaul From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sat May 1 09:01:48 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 01 May 10 11:01:48 +0200 Subject: Manuscript publication finance swindle at Sampurnanand Sanskrit University, Varanasi Message-ID: <161227089433.23782.6128342732424749650.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 344 Lines: 9 Publication scam: Matter recommended to state Times of India VARANASI: With the exposure of a publication scam of over Rs 10.40 crore, the Executive Council of Sampurnanand *Sanskrit* University (SSU) has recommended ... From veerankp at GMAIL.COM Sat May 1 12:22:44 2010 From: veerankp at GMAIL.COM (Veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Sat, 01 May 10 17:52:44 +0530 Subject: Manuscript publication finance swindle at Sampurnanand Sanskrit University, Varanasi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089436.23782.10667024827184790373.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 865 Lines: 30 it is really to be condemned by all veeranarayana On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Publication scam: Matter recommended to > state< > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/varanasi/Publication-scam-Matter-recommended-to-state/articleshow/5878160.cms > > > Times of India > VARANASI: With the exposure of a publication scam of over Rs 10.40 crore, > the Executive Council of Sampurnanand *Sanskrit* University (SSU) has > recommended ... > -- Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi Head, Dept of Darshanas, Yoganandacharya Bhavan, Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026. ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ????????? ??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ??????????????? ?????????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) From ocattedra at YAHOO.COM.AR Sun May 2 16:43:10 2010 From: ocattedra at YAHOO.COM.AR (olivia cattedra) Date: Sun, 02 May 10 09:43:10 -0700 Subject: K=?iso-8859-15?Q?=E2thasarits=E2gara?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089439.23782.8136127856249236370.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 220 Lines: 19 Dear Colleagues I am looking for information on modern works on the Ocean of Stories, K?thasarits?gara, any ideas? thank you very much Dra. Olivia Cattedra CONICET - FASTA Mar del Plata - Argentina From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Sun May 2 16:50:27 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Sun, 02 May 10 11:50:27 -0500 Subject: K=?iso-8859-15?Q?=E2thasarits=E2gara?= In-Reply-To: <829792.80894.qm@web113517.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227089442.23782.17112627413183657647.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 316 Lines: 13 you might start with the recent French translation, under the direction of Nalini Balbir, in the collection of the Pleiades (Paris: Gallimard). Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From adheesh1 at GMAIL.COM Sun May 2 21:07:49 2010 From: adheesh1 at GMAIL.COM (Adheesh Sathaye) Date: Sun, 02 May 10 14:07:49 -0700 Subject: Announcement: 3rd Int'l Ramayana Conference, Northern Illinois Univ. - Sept. 18-19, 2010 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089448.23782.13924973762477525073.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1292 Lines: 47 Dear Colleagues, I'm forwarding this announcement on behalf of the conference organizers. Please do reply to the contact info indicated below! Best, Adheesh ---- Adheesh Sathaye Department of Asian Studies University of British Columbia +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Northern Illinois University, DeKalb (NIU), University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (UIUC) and International Ramayana Institute of North America (IRINA) are holding the Third International Ramayana Conference at the DeKalb campus of NIU in the United States on September 18-19, 2010. Scholarly papers are invited for the conference. We look forward to receiving the paper before Monday, May 17, 2010. For details on the conference, registration, and abstract submission, visit: www.cseas.niu.edu/CSEAS/conferences/Ramayana/ Kindly pass this information on to your colleagues who may be interested in this conference. Please submit the required abstract information to: Anne M. Petty Johnson, MS Ed Associate Northern Illinois University College of Liberal Arts & Sciences External Programming Monat Building, Room 152 DeKalb, IL 60115 (815) 753-5200 e-mail: RamayanaConference at niu.edu +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Sun May 2 20:53:01 2010 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Sun, 02 May 10 16:53:01 -0400 Subject: pa=?utf-8?Q?=C3=B1cagranth=C4=AB?= brahmin? Message-ID: <161227089445.23782.3057068837752987132.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1010 Lines: 24 Dear Indologists, While the term da?agranth? brahmin is well known and refers to a brahmin who has studied the four Vedas and the six Ved??gas, I have come across the term pa?cagranth? brahmin in one of the sources. Has anybody encountered this term, and, if so, what might these five granthas be? Best, Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Deshpande, Madhav [mmdesh at UMICH.EDU] Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 9:59 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: contact info for Stephan Hillyer Levitt? I would appreciate if someone could provide me contact information for Stephan Hillyer Levitt (New York). He was a class-mate of mine at the University of Pennsylvania. Madhav M. Deshpande ________________________________________ From h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX Mon May 3 19:03:59 2010 From: h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX (Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez) Date: Mon, 03 May 10 12:03:59 -0700 Subject: Please Looking for? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089451.23782.577700736106149778.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1918 Lines: 62 Dear professors: Please accept my most sincere greetings. I would ask to you fine persons, your most honest and professional opinion on the information found in Wikepedia, as a reliable source with sufficient academic quality about Indology. Thanking all of you for your fine generosity. Your sincere fellow. Lic. M.A. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad Internacional Euroamericana. Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada. Miembro del Instituto de Estudios Filos?ficos de Saltillo A. C. www.uie.edu.es --- El s?b 13-mar-10, Dominik Wujastyk escribi?: > De: Dominik Wujastyk > Asunto: Fwd: Sanskrit Manuscripts in South Indian Scripts: the van Manen Collection > A: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Fecha: s?bado, 13 de marzo de 2010, 15:56 > ---------- Forwarded message > ---------- > From: Rath, S. > Date: 9 March 2010 00:35 > Subject: Sanskrit Manuscripts in South Indian Scripts: the > van Manen > Collection > > Dear Dominik, > > As you know that I have been working on the south indian > manuscripts of the > Johan van Manen collection, Leiden. At present I would like > to make the > complete list of titles of the texts (588) found in this > collection > available to those interested. Several new texts have been > identified which > were not in the preliminary hand-list published by H. 't > Hart in 1992. My > complete catalogue which gives more detailed information on > the manuscripts > is under preparation and will be published soon. > Could you please forward the following link to the Indology > List ? > http://www.iias.nl/profile/saraju-rath > With thanks and best regards, > > Saraju > > Dr. Saraju Rath > International Institute for Asian Studies (IIAS) > Postbox no. 9500 > 2300 RA Leiden > The Netherlands > Tel. 0031-71-5274147 > email: s.rath at iias.nl > From beitel at GWU.EDU Tue May 4 15:43:47 2010 From: beitel at GWU.EDU (Alfred Hiltebeitel) Date: Tue, 04 May 10 11:43:47 -0400 Subject: Publication Announcement-The Spirit of Hindu Law In-Reply-To: <4B966F86.9070307@wisc.edu> Message-ID: <161227089457.23782.10862876109194492226.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 910 Lines: 37 Hi Don. I am trying to clean things up (esp. bibliography) to submit the big Dharma book. Do you have a complete (published) reference for your atmatushti article? And if possible an electronic copy of it? All best, Alf. Alf Hiltebeitel Professor of Religion and Human Sciences Department of Religion 2106 G Street, NW George Washington University Washington DC 20052 ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald R Davis Jr Date: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 10:56 am Subject: Publication Announcement-The Spirit of Hindu Law To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Dear Colleagues, > > I am pleased to announce the publication of the following book: > > Donald R. Davis, Jr. The Spirit of Hindu Law. Cambridge: Cambridge > UP, 2010. > > > Best regards, > > Don Davis > Dept of Languages & Cultures of Asia > University of Wisconsin-Madison From jrasik at COLMEX.MX Tue May 4 17:14:25 2010 From: jrasik at COLMEX.MX (Rasik Vihari Joshi Tripathi) Date: Tue, 04 May 10 12:14:25 -0500 Subject: Publication Announcement-The Spirit of Hindu Law Message-ID: <161227089459.23782.1253324870231155723.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1370 Lines: 52 Thank you. I have just published "Laksmii-Nrsimha-Sahasra-Nama-Stotra" in two vlumes with English translation. I will bring a copy for you in the second week of June 2010. With regatds, Rasik Vihari Joshi -----Mensaje original----- De: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] En nombre de Alfred Hiltebeitel Enviado el: Martes, 04 de Mayo de 2010 10:44 a.m. Para: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Asunto: Re: Publication Announcement-The Spirit of Hindu Law Hi Don. I am trying to clean things up (esp. bibliography) to submit the big Dharma book. Do you have a complete (published) reference for your atmatushti article? And if possible an electronic copy of it? All best, Alf. Alf Hiltebeitel Professor of Religion and Human Sciences Department of Religion 2106 G Street, NW George Washington University Washington DC 20052 ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald R Davis Jr Date: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 10:56 am Subject: Publication Announcement-The Spirit of Hindu Law To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Dear Colleagues, > > I am pleased to announce the publication of the following book: > > Donald R. Davis, Jr. The Spirit of Hindu Law. Cambridge: Cambridge > UP, 2010. > > > Best regards, > > Don Davis > Dept of Languages & Cultures of Asia > University of Wisconsin-Madison From beitel at GWU.EDU Tue May 4 17:53:53 2010 From: beitel at GWU.EDU (Alfred Hiltebeitel) Date: Tue, 04 May 10 13:53:53 -0400 Subject: Publication Announcement-The Spirit of Hindu Law In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089462.23782.2506977108999398656.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1445 Lines: 56 My regrets for sending what I thought would be a direct note to all. Alf Hiltebeitel Professor of Religion and Human Sciences Department of Religion 2106 G Street, NW George Washington University Washington DC 20052 ----- Original Message ----- From: Alfred Hiltebeitel Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 11:43 am Subject: Re: Publication Announcement-The Spirit of Hindu Law To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Hi Don. > > I am trying to clean things up (esp. bibliography) to submit the big > Dharma book. Do you have a complete (published) reference for your > atmatushti article? And if possible an electronic copy of it? > > All best, > Alf. > > Alf Hiltebeitel > Professor of Religion and Human Sciences > Department of Religion > 2106 G Street, NW > George Washington University > Washington DC 20052 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Donald R Davis Jr > Date: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 10:56 am > Subject: Publication Announcement-The Spirit of Hindu Law > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > > > Dear Colleagues, > > > > I am pleased to announce the publication of the following book: > > > > Donald R. Davis, Jr. The Spirit of Hindu Law. Cambridge: Cambridge > > > UP, 2010. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Don Davis > > Dept of Languages & Cultures of Asia > > University of Wisconsin-Madison From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue May 4 13:41:16 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 04 May 10 15:41:16 +0200 Subject: Job advertisement, Vienna Message-ID: <161227089454.23782.6155304503588043085.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2753 Lines: 74 All responses to the address below, please. -- Forwarded message begins: An der Universit?t Wien (mit 15 Fakult?ten, 3 Zentren, rund 180 Studienrichtungen, ca. 8.600 Mitarbeiter/innen und ca. 85.000 Studierenden) ist ehestm?glich die Position einer/eines Universit?tsassistent/in ("post doc") am Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde zu besetzen. Kennzahl der Ausschreibung: 1126 Am Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde, Bereich S?dasienkunde, kann ehestm?glich ein privatrechtliches Dienstverh?ltnis mit einem/r Assistenten/in begr?ndet werden. Es endet nach Ablauf von sechs Jahren. Dauer der Befristung: 6 Jahr/e Besch?ftigungsausma?: 40 Stunden/Woche. Ihre Aufgaben: Der Aufgabenbereich umfasst die Unterst?tzung der Professur im Bereich Indologie in Lehre und Forschung sowie selbst?ndige Lehre und Forschung. Ihr Profil: Abgeschlossenes Studium im Gebiet der Indologie/S?dasienkunde (Doktorat) oder eine dem Doktorat gleichzuwertende wissenschaftliche Bef?higung mit Forschungsschwerpunkt im Bereich der Geschichte der indischen Philosophie, einschlie?lich der buddhistischen Traditionen, sowie der wissenschaftlichen Literatur unter Verwendung von Quellen in den Prim?rsprachen Sanskrit, Pali und Tibetisch und mit philologisch- ideengeschichtlicher Methodik; ausgezeichnete Kenntnis des klassischen Sanskrit, insbesondere des wissenschaftlichen Sanskrit; gute Vertrautheit - auch methodologisch - mit der Verwendung und Bearbeitung handschriftlicher Quellen des s?dasiatischen Raums; Bef?higung zur Beteiligung an der Lehre in den Gebieten Sprache, Literatur, Religion und Philosophie S?dasiens; Bereitschaft zur Zusammenarbeit in laufenden Forschungsprojekten; Bereitschaft zur Mitarbeit in der Verwaltung und Unterst?tzung von wissenschaftlichen Publikations- und Datenbankprojekten des Instituts. Sehr gute Englischkenntnisse und gute fachspezifische EDV-Kenntnisse sowie gute Deutschkenntnisse werden vorausgesetzt. Ihre Bewerbung: Wir freuen uns auf Ihre aussagekr?ftige Bewerbung mit Motivationsschreiben unter der Kennzahl 1126, welche Sie bis zum 16.05.2010 bevorzugt ?ber unser Job Center ( http://jobcenter.univie.ac.at/) an uns ?bermitteln. F?r n?here Ausk?nfte ?ber die ausgeschriebene Position wenden Sie sich bitte an Preisendanz, Karin +43-1-4277- 43510, Lewandowska, Ewa +43-1-4277-43551. Die Universit?t Wien strebt eine Erh?hung des Frauenanteils insbesondere in Leitungsfunktionen und beim Wissenschaftlichen Personal an und fordert deshalb qualifizierte Frauen ausdr?cklich zur Bewerbung auf. Frauen werden bei gleicher Qualifikation vorrangig aufgenommen. DLE Personalwesen und Frauenf?rderung der Universit?t Wien Kennzahl der Ausschreibung: 1126 Email: jobcenter at univie.ac.at From drdavis at WISC.EDU Tue May 4 20:43:16 2010 From: drdavis at WISC.EDU (Donald R Davis Jr) Date: Tue, 04 May 10 15:43:16 -0500 Subject: Atmatushti In-Reply-To: <27616_1273001283_ZZg0Y515PpevI.00_1636508964.19694861273001277173.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <161227089467.23782.12805289686167699126.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1658 Lines: 68 Dear George, Alf was asking about this article of mine, which I'm happy to send to anyone interested. 2007. ?On ?tmatu??i as a Source of Dharma.? Journal of the American Oriental Society 127:3, 279-296. Best, Don gthomgt at COMCAST.NET wrote: > Dear List, > > > > Would anyone be averse to seeing a full reference to this article or even having access to a pdf of it? > > > > Sometimes fortuitous events like this can be for fortunate. > > > > George Thompson > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alfred Hiltebeitel" > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Sent: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 1:53:53 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: Publication Announcement-The Spirit of Hindu Law > > My regrets for sending what I thought would be a direct note to all. > > Alf Hiltebeitel > Professor of Religion and Human Sciences > Department of Religion > 2106 G Street, NW > George Washington University > Washington DC 20052 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Alfred Hiltebeitel > Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 11:43 am > Subject: Re: Publication Announcement-The Spirit of Hindu Law > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > > >> Hi Don. >> >> I am trying to clean things up (esp. bibliography) to submit the big >> Dharma book. Do you have a complete (published) reference for your >> atmatushti article? And if possible an electronic copy of it? >> >> All best, >> Alf. >> >> Alf Hiltebeitel >> Professor of Religion and Human Sciences >> Department of Religion >> 2106 G Street, NW >> George Washington University >> Washington DC 20052 >> >> >> From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Tue May 4 19:27:57 2010 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (gthomgt at COMCAST.NET) Date: Tue, 04 May 10 19:27:57 +0000 Subject: Publication Announcement-The Spirit of Hindu Law In-Reply-To: <935784181.19693821273001175929.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <161227089465.23782.762114695749951739.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1935 Lines: 75 Dear List, Would anyone be averse to seeing a full reference to this article or even having access to a pdf of it? Sometimes fortuitous events like this can be for fortunate. George Thompson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alfred Hiltebeitel" To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 1:53:53 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: Publication Announcement-The Spirit of Hindu Law My regrets for sending what I thought would be a direct note to all. Alf Hiltebeitel Professor of Religion and Human Sciences Department of Religion 2106 G Street, NW George Washington University Washington DC 20052 ----- Original Message ----- From: Alfred Hiltebeitel Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 11:43 am Subject: Re: Publication Announcement-The Spirit of Hindu Law To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Hi Don. > ? > ?I am trying to clean things up (esp. bibliography) to submit the big > Dharma book. Do you have a complete (published) reference for your > atmatushti article? And if possible an electronic copy of it? > ? > ?All best, > ?Alf. > ? > ?Alf Hiltebeitel > ?Professor of Religion and Human Sciences > ?Department of Religion > ?2106 G Street, NW > ?George Washington University > ?Washington DC 20052 > ? > ?----- Original Message ----- > ?From: Donald R Davis Jr > ?Date: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 10:56 am > ?Subject: Publication Announcement-The Spirit of Hindu Law > ?To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > ? > ? > ?> Dear Colleagues, > ?> ? > ?> ?I am pleased to announce the publication of the following book: > ?> ? > ?> ?Donald R. Davis, Jr. The Spirit of Hindu Law. Cambridge: Cambridge > > ?> UP, 2010. > ?> ? > ?> ? > ?> ?Best regards, > ?> ? > ?> ?Don Davis > ?> ?Dept of Languages & Cultures of Asia > ?> ?University of Wisconsin-Madison ? From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Wed May 5 06:48:46 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Wed, 05 May 10 01:48:46 -0500 Subject: K=?iso-8859-15?Q?=E2thasarits=E2gara?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089473.23782.16497472294991068963.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 348 Lines: 15 Arshia Sattar's lovely volume is an abridgement intended for general readers. The Pleiade French addition is complete, with much of interest to a more specialized readership. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM Wed May 5 05:24:13 2010 From: venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM (venetia ansell) Date: Wed, 05 May 10 10:54:13 +0530 Subject: K=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E2thasarits=E2gara?= In-Reply-To: <20100502115027.CNM14915@m4500-02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227089470.23782.5575392338273120681.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 485 Lines: 19 Arshia Sattar brought out a translation a few years ago, Penguin India I think. On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 10:20 PM, wrote: > you might start with the recent French translation, > under the direction of Nalini Balbir, > in the collection of the Pleiades (Paris: Gallimard). > > Matthew T. Kapstein > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies > The University of Chicago Divinity School > > Directeur d'?tudes > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Wed May 5 13:49:25 2010 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (gthomgt at COMCAST.NET) Date: Wed, 05 May 10 13:49:25 +0000 Subject: Atmatushti In-Reply-To: <4BE086E4.6000702@wisc.edu> Message-ID: <161227089476.23782.7285487686379361558.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 539 Lines: 31 Dear Don, Thank you very much for your article and your generosity. And best wishes to you! George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald R Davis Jr" To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 4:43:16 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Atmatushti Dear George, Alf was asking about this article of mine, which I'm happy to send to anyone interested. 2007. ?On ?tmatu??i as a Source of Dharma.? Journal of the American Oriental Society 127:3, 279-296. Best, Don From hwtull at MSN.COM Thu May 6 10:18:01 2010 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Thu, 06 May 10 06:18:01 -0400 Subject: ramanuja gita bhasya In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089481.23782.6443564446358662544.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 838 Lines: 36 If you go to the "gita supersite" (just do a google search, there is an easy-to-use beta: ), you can easily generate downloadable pdf files in devanagari of Ramanuja's commentary. Just click the necessary boxes. However, it generates just one chapter per file. Herman Tull Princeton, NJ -------------------------------------------------- From: "patrick mccartney" Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 12:32 AM To: Subject: ramanuja gita bhasya > Dear List, > > does anyone know where I can find a pdf of Ramanuja's Gita Bhasya in > Devanagari? > > Thanks, > > -- > Patrick McCartney - > PO Box 704 > Walkerville > South Australia 5081 > SKYPE: cranky-mechanic > > ?? ????? ??????? > tava hRdayaM anugaccha > Follow your heart > From hopeforageneration at GMAIL.COM Thu May 6 04:32:45 2010 From: hopeforageneration at GMAIL.COM (patrick mccartney) Date: Thu, 06 May 10 14:02:45 +0930 Subject: ramanuja gita bhasya Message-ID: <161227089479.23782.9542761700298851052.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 258 Lines: 20 Dear List, does anyone know where I can find a pdf of Ramanuja's Gita Bhasya in Devanagari? Thanks, -- Patrick McCartney - PO Box 704 Walkerville South Australia 5081 SKYPE: cranky-mechanic ?? ????? ??????? tava hRdayaM anugaccha Follow your heart From slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU Fri May 7 12:32:29 2010 From: slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU (Steven Lindquist) Date: Fri, 07 May 10 07:32:29 -0500 Subject: Murthy Classical Library Series in Outlook Message-ID: <161227089484.23782.11754963161153129101.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 213 Lines: 14 FYI: http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?265258 -- Steven Lindquist, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Religious Studies Southern Methodist University Homepage: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui -- From tccahill at LOYNO.EDU Fri May 7 15:43:40 2010 From: tccahill at LOYNO.EDU (tccahill) Date: Fri, 07 May 10 09:43:40 -0600 Subject: host gift Message-ID: <161227089489.23782.8334362719109320914.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1217 Lines: 38 ... apart > from dAna and pratidAna, is there any specific term for > host or hostess gift in Sanskrit? And does anybody know > (specific!) text references and/or secondary literature > regarding this topic? I am aware of most dAna literature. See Ludo Rocher's edition and translation: *Jiimuutavaahana's Daayabhaaga; The Hindu Law of Inheritance in Bengal* Oxford, 2002. On p. 137, n. 9 of the translation he writes: "A welcoming present" (maadhuparkika) ... is the present which some guests receive along with a welcoming madhuparka, "honey-based mixture." On p. 311 of the text, Rocher provides the verse on lines five and six. The word "maadhuparkika" occurs on line two, towards the end. After that he includes the reference to Manu (M. 9.206). This might be useful in case your student would like to read commentaries on who is deserving of the madhuparka offering. I'm afraid I can't provide specific reference to those. If "host gift" means something to be presented *to* the host, well, I don't know anything about that. best, Tim Cahill Timothy C. Cahill Associate Professor and Chair Department of Religious Studies Loyola University New Orleans 6363 St. Charles Ave. New Orleans, LA 70118 From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Fri May 7 17:13:19 2010 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Fri, 07 May 10 10:13:19 -0700 Subject: host gift In-Reply-To: <16838_1273240794_1273240794_397723.36783.qm@web27303.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227089493.23782.10326008132169012756.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 509 Lines: 15 The terms upahaara and upaayana would come closest. I did not have time to check if they occur in Dharma-;saastra literature. In a culture in which the 'senior : junior' relationship element is important in many contexts, the use of such terms will naturally be nuanced, and we are unlikely to find a term that fits all contexts (compare the case of 'thank you'). ashok aklujkar On 10-05-07 6:59 AM, "Axel Michaels" wrote: > host gift ("Gastgeschenk") in the Dharmashastra< From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Fri May 7 15:52:11 2010 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Fri, 07 May 10 10:52:11 -0500 Subject: host gift In-Reply-To: <397723.36783.qm@web27303.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227089491.23782.17972023715410082834.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1304 Lines: 23 Axel: one term is "arghya" -- although it refers directly to the water with other stuff that is presented to the honored guest. Whether arghya involved other kinds of gifts at the same time is unclear. Patrick On May 7, 2010, at 8:59 AM, Axel Michaels wrote: > A student of mine wants to do some reserach on the host gift ("Gastgeschenk") in the Dharmashastra. I should know but don't, and would therefore be grateful for help: apart from dAna and pratidAna, is there any specific term for host or hostess gift in Sanskrit? And does anybody know (specific!) text references and/or secondary literature regarding this topic? I am aware of most dAna literature. > > AM > ------------------------------ > Prof. Dr. Axel Michaels > Acting Director Excellence Cluster "Asia and Europe in a Global Context", Sprecher des SFB 619 ("Ritualdynamik") > > Universit?t Heidelberg, S?dasien-Institut, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, D-69120 Heidelberg > Tel. +49-6221-548917 / Fax +49-6221-546338 > http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/ -- www.ritualdynamik.uni-hd.de -- http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/index.html > Emails: sek-michaels at uni-heidelberg.de (SAI office) -- Axel.Michaels at urz.uni-heidelberg.de (official and personal) -- michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de (Cluster mail) > From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Fri May 7 17:51:59 2010 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Fri, 07 May 10 12:51:59 -0500 Subject: host gift In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089496.23782.18035900746087241252.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 682 Lines: 23 Upaayana as a gift is found in Arthasastra 2.8.3 and elsewhere (as also aupaayanika). Patrick On May 7, 2010, at 12:13 PM, Ashok Aklujkar wrote: > The terms upahaara and upaayana would come closest. I did not have time to > check if they occur in Dharma-;saastra literature. In a culture in which the > 'senior : junior' relationship element is important in many contexts, the > use of such terms will naturally be nuanced, and we are unlikely to find a > term that fits all contexts (compare the case of 'thank you'). > > ashok aklujkar > > > On 10-05-07 6:59 AM, "Axel Michaels" wrote: > >> host gift ("Gastgeschenk") in the Dharmashastra< From axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE Fri May 7 13:59:43 2010 From: axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE (Axel Michaels) Date: Fri, 07 May 10 13:59:43 +0000 Subject: host gift Message-ID: <161227089486.23782.9206636406927019929.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1017 Lines: 15 A student of mine wants to do some reserach on the host gift ("Gastgeschenk") in the Dharmashastra. I should know but don't, and would therefore be grateful for help: apart from dAna and pratidAna, is there any specific term for host or hostess gift in Sanskrit? And does anybody know (specific!) text references and/or secondary literature regarding this topic? I am aware of most dAna literature. AM ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Axel Michaels Acting Director Excellence Cluster "Asia and Europe in a Global Context", Sprecher des SFB 619 ("Ritualdynamik") Universit?t Heidelberg, S?dasien-Institut, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, D-69120 Heidelberg Tel. +49-6221-548917 / Fax +49-6221-546338 http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/ -- www.ritualdynamik.uni-hd.de -- http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/index.html Emails: sek-michaels at uni-heidelberg.de (SAI office) -- Axel.Michaels at urz.uni-heidelberg.de (official and personal) -- michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de (Cluster mail) From fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU Sat May 8 13:51:29 2010 From: fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU (FRITS STAAL) Date: Sat, 08 May 10 06:51:29 -0700 Subject: Brahmins as Musicians In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089505.23782.9690674858547192786.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2929 Lines: 84 Don't forget that some brahmans - not a large percentage - are Saamavedins. They do not recite but sing. > ?r?vara, the Kashmirian court Pandit of Sultan Zayn (r. AD 1418/20-1470), > was a noted Brahmin musician. His Rajatarangini (ed. Kaul 1966) abounds in > references to musical performances, of which the one quoted below > (1.4.34-36) deserves particular attention: > > [34][Being myself] an expert in music of all kinds, I took an [ordinary] > gourd lute in my hand [and] by playing it displayed my skills in new > musical > modulations. [35]Others such as ?a?far [joined in] also and sang difficult > Turkish tunes with me accompanied by the lute, in front of the Sul??n. > [36]While we were singing a song in twelve [different] modes in the > assembly, the tones [formed] from strings and voices seemed to reach > perfect > harmony out of [mutual] affection. > > As to the Gitagovinda, cp. 1.5.99f: > > [99]He then embarked on a boat surrounded by five or six boatswains and > sailed out to Lake [Kramasaras], taking Bha??a Si?ha and me along with > him. > [100]When I sang the Sul??n songs from the G?tagovinda [there], he became > immersed in love for K???a on listening to them, overcome with the > particular sentiment [corresponding to my recital]. > > Lake Kramasaras is mod. Konsar Nag (elevation c. 15,000 feet) below > Naubandha Peak on the Pir Pantsal. > > Best, WS > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan" > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 2:50 PM > Subject: Brahmins as Musicians > > > Dear Indologists, > > I am interested in the history of orthodox Brahmins performing as > musicians. > Today the field of Carnatic music is dominated by South Indian Brahmins. > South Indian Brahmins' involvement in music is traceable at least up to > Madhava Vidyaranya. An early epigraphic record praising the musical > ability > of a Brahmin is that of the Western Chalukya king Somesvara of 11th > century > in Yewur in Karnataka . However, there does not seem to be any widespread > brahmin participation in musicmaking at that time. Jayadeva comes a > century > later. I would like to know if the Bhagavatapurana and especially the > Gitagovinda have anything to do with increasing Brahmin participation in > musicmaking? > > Thank you in advance for any comments or references. > > Regards, > Palaniappan > ------------------------------ > Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje > Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 > D-99425 Weimar > (Germany) > www.indologie.uni-halle.de > > Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor > studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum > non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, > sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus > humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. > Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. > Frits Staal http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/staal From palaniappa at AOL.COM Sat May 8 12:50:30 2010 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sat, 08 May 10 07:50:30 -0500 Subject: Brahmins as Musicians Message-ID: <161227089501.23782.15767017072861104245.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 779 Lines: 11 Dear Indologists, I am interested in the history of orthodox Brahmins performing as musicians. Today the field of Carnatic music is dominated by South Indian Brahmins. South Indian Brahmins' involvement in music is traceable at least up to Madhava Vidyaranya. An early epigraphic record praising the musical ability of a Brahmin is that of the Western Chalukya king Somesvara of 11th century in Yewur in Karnataka . However, there does not seem to be any widespread brahmin participation in musicmaking at that time. Jayadeva comes a century later. I would like to know if the Bhagavatapurana and especially the Gitagovinda have anything to do with increasing Brahmin participation in musicmaking? Thank you in advance for any comments or references. Regards, Palaniappan From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sat May 8 08:12:23 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 08 May 10 10:12:23 +0200 Subject: INDOLOGY list administrative matters Message-ID: <161227089498.23782.1552428492375908881.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 549 Lines: 25 Dear colleagues, A gentle reminder: please do not write to me personally about INDOLOGY administrative matters; I am just one member of the committee. The appropriate address of the INDOLOGY committee is - indologycommittee at liverpool.ac.uk With thanks, Dr Dominik Wujastyk Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Vienna Austria -- Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of storage free! https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTIzNzI2MTY5 From hwtull at MSN.COM Sat May 8 14:47:40 2010 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Sat, 08 May 10 10:47:40 -0400 Subject: host gift In-Reply-To: <4be4352c.d1.34f0d6.17869@loyno.edu> Message-ID: <161227089508.23782.3734887014777551752.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1754 Lines: 53 I would think he/she should be able to get some interesting information by looking at the term for "guest" (atithi)--references to the atithi are sprinkled throughout Vedic literature. As Tim says, if it's the other way around...? (Maybe a bottle of merlot?) Herman Tull Princeton, NJ -------------------------------------------------- From: "tccahill" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 11:43 AM To: Subject: Re: host gift > ... apart >> from dAna and pratidAna, is there any specific term for >> host or hostess gift in Sanskrit? And does anybody know >> (specific!) text references and/or secondary literature >> regarding this topic? I am aware of most dAna literature. > > See Ludo Rocher's edition and translation: > *Jiimuutavaahana's Daayabhaaga; The Hindu Law of Inheritance > in Bengal* Oxford, 2002. > > On p. 137, n. 9 of the translation he writes: > "A welcoming present" (maadhuparkika) ... is the present > which some guests receive along with a welcoming madhuparka, > "honey-based mixture." > > On p. 311 of the text, Rocher provides the verse on lines > five and six. The word "maadhuparkika" occurs on line two, > towards the end. After that he includes the reference to > Manu (M. 9.206). This might be useful in case your student > would like to read commentaries on who is deserving of the > madhuparka offering. I'm afraid I can't provide specific > reference to those. > > If "host gift" means something to be presented *to* the > host, well, I don't know anything about that. > > best, > Tim Cahill > > Timothy C. Cahill > Associate Professor and Chair > Department of Religious Studies > Loyola University New Orleans > 6363 St. Charles Ave. > New Orleans, LA 70118 > From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Sat May 8 13:24:01 2010 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Sat, 08 May 10 15:24:01 +0200 Subject: Brahmins as Musicians In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089503.23782.5130250869116693110.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2664 Lines: 67 ?r?vara, the Kashmirian court Pandit of Sultan Zayn (r. AD 1418/20-1470), was a noted Brahmin musician. His Rajatarangini (ed. Kaul 1966) abounds in references to musical performances, of which the one quoted below (1.4.34-36) deserves particular attention: [34][Being myself] an expert in music of all kinds, I took an [ordinary] gourd lute in my hand [and] by playing it displayed my skills in new musical modulations. [35]Others such as ?a?far [joined in] also and sang difficult Turkish tunes with me accompanied by the lute, in front of the Sul??n. [36]While we were singing a song in twelve [different] modes in the assembly, the tones [formed] from strings and voices seemed to reach perfect harmony out of [mutual] affection. As to the Gitagovinda, cp. 1.5.99f: [99]He then embarked on a boat surrounded by five or six boatswains and sailed out to Lake [Kramasaras], taking Bha??a Si?ha and me along with him. [100]When I sang the Sul??n songs from the G?tagovinda [there], he became immersed in love for K???a on listening to them, overcome with the particular sentiment [corresponding to my recital]. Lake Kramasaras is mod. Konsar Nag (elevation c. 15,000 feet) below Naubandha Peak on the Pir Pantsal. Best, WS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan" To: Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 2:50 PM Subject: Brahmins as Musicians Dear Indologists, I am interested in the history of orthodox Brahmins performing as musicians. Today the field of Carnatic music is dominated by South Indian Brahmins. South Indian Brahmins' involvement in music is traceable at least up to Madhava Vidyaranya. An early epigraphic record praising the musical ability of a Brahmin is that of the Western Chalukya king Somesvara of 11th century in Yewur in Karnataka . However, there does not seem to be any widespread brahmin participation in musicmaking at that time. Jayadeva comes a century later. I would like to know if the Bhagavatapurana and especially the Gitagovinda have anything to do with increasing Brahmin participation in musicmaking? Thank you in advance for any comments or references. Regards, Palaniappan ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM Sun May 9 03:59:20 2010 From: mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Sat, 08 May 10 23:59:20 -0400 Subject: Invitation for Contribution in the Volume on "Persian in Kashmir" Message-ID: <161227089510.23782.2737665638392822884.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1864 Lines: 40 THE HARABHATTA SHASTRI INDOLOGICAL RESEARCH INSTITUTE # 37/4 Pandoka Colony Paloura, Jammu - 181121 Jammu & Kashmir, India email: harbhattashastri at gmail.com May 08, 2010 Dear Friends, We are planning to bring out a volume focusing the contribution of Kashmirian Persianists to the Persian literature. This volume, as we are planning it to be, will serve as an encyclopaedic manual on "Kashmiri Persian scholars and their Works". We invite an original and highly critical piece of essay written in English by you to be included in the volume. We also encourage you to circulate this letter amongst your colleagues who you think are capable of contributing to this volume. 1. The formal deadline for submission is decided to be 31 December 2010. But since I am looking after the project, I would say that I am ready to offer any contributor ample time as far as the contribution is an original research article. The articles should certainly be unpublished. 2. There are no hard and fast rules about the length of contributions. We will not mind a hard core critically researched paper either of one page or hundred pages. I am just concerned about originality and quality. 3. All the papers should be submitted computer typewritten in a proper scholarly format with a detailed bibliography and a personal introduction of the contributor. A PDF copy of the letter is enclosed herewith for the circulation in your department, university, institute or scholarly organization. I am quite hopeful that you will try to contribute for the said volume. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions. With my best regards. Yours sincerely, (Mrinal Kaul) A/p Concordia University Department of Religion, FA-101 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd West Montreal, Quebec CANADA H3G 1M8 Cell: +1-514-8028228 e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Sun May 9 11:53:06 2010 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel) Date: Sun, 09 May 10 07:53:06 -0400 Subject: Invitation for Contribution in the Volume on "Persian in Kashmir" In-Reply-To: <2DC41CE5-EEAD-4801-9AF1-F7B7ABB4F7E2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227089512.23782.5835785155918173559.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2706 Lines: 90 Dear Mrinal, many thanks for your kind invitation. Unfortunately, I do not specialize in Persian, so I cannot participate. I still regret very much that we could not accommodate you with us: too much competition. But perhaps we can cooperate in the future, e.g. on Pandits' rituals: how do you keep up with them outside Kashmir proper? With my best wishes, M. WItzel On May 8, 2010, at 11:59 PM, Mrinal Kaul wrote: > THE HARABHATTA SHASTRI > INDOLOGICAL RESEARCH INSTITUTE > > # 37/4 Pandoka Colony > Paloura, Jammu - 181121 > Jammu & Kashmir, India > email: harbhattashastri at gmail.com > > > > May 08, 2010 > > > Dear Friends, > > We are planning to bring out a volume focusing the contribution of > Kashmirian Persianists to the Persian literature. This volume, as > we are planning it to be, will serve as an encyclopaedic manual on > "Kashmiri Persian scholars and their Works". We invite an original > and highly critical piece of essay written in English by you to be > included in the volume. We also encourage you to circulate this > letter amongst your colleagues who you think are capable of > contributing to this volume. > > 1. The formal deadline for submission is decided to be 31 December > 2010. But since I am looking after the project, I would say that I > am ready to offer any contributor ample time as far as the > contribution is an original research article. The articles should > certainly be unpublished. > > 2. There are no hard and fast rules about the length of > contributions. We will not mind a hard core critically researched > paper either of one page or hundred pages. I am just concerned > about originality and quality. > > 3. All the papers should be submitted computer typewritten in a > proper scholarly format with a detailed bibliography and a personal > introduction of the contributor. > > A PDF copy of the letter is enclosed herewith for the circulation > in your department, university, institute or scholarly > organization. I am quite hopeful that you will try to contribute > for the said volume. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you > have any questions. With my best regards. > > Yours sincerely, > > > (Mrinal Kaul) > > A/p Concordia University > Department of Religion, FA-101 > 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd West > Montreal, Quebec > CANADA H3G 1M8 > Cell: +1-514-8028228 > e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org ============ Michael Witzel witzel at fas.harvard.edu Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University 1 Bow Street, Cambridge MA 02138, USA phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; my direct line: 617- 496 2990 From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU Sun May 9 13:38:00 2010 From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John C. Huntington) Date: Sun, 09 May 10 09:38:00 -0400 Subject: Invitation for Contribution in the Volume on "Persian in Kashmir" In-Reply-To: <2DC41CE5-EEAD-4801-9AF1-F7B7ABB4F7E2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227089514.23782.9711638977031553505.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3160 Lines: 98 Dear Mrinal Kaul, Thank you very much for your kind invitation to contribute the volume on the contribution of Kashmiri Persianists to Persian literature. While my work does include the study of some technical morphological aspects of "Persian" (Parthian, Sasanian and Early Arabo-Sasanian) art, I neither know Persian nor do I have any scholarly interest in the literature. Therefore, I have nothing on topic to contribute. John C. Huntington John C. Huntington, Professor (Buddhist Art and Methodologies) Department of the History of Art The Ohio State University Columbus, OH, U.S.A. On May 8, 2010, at 11:59 PM, Mrinal Kaul wrote: > THE HARABHATTA SHASTRI > INDOLOGICAL RESEARCH INSTITUTE > > # 37/4 Pandoka Colony > Paloura, Jammu - 181121 > Jammu & Kashmir, India > email: harbhattashastri at gmail.com > > > > May 08, 2010 > > > Dear Friends, > > We are planning to bring out a volume focusing the contribution of > Kashmirian Persianists to the Persian literature. This volume, as we > are planning it to be, will serve as an encyclopaedic manual on > "Kashmiri Persian scholars and their Works". We invite an original > and highly critical piece of essay written in English by you to be > included in the volume. We also encourage you to circulate this > letter amongst your colleagues who you think are capable of > contributing to this volume. > > 1. The formal deadline for submission is decided to be 31 December > 2010. But since I am looking after the project, I would say that I > am ready to offer any contributor ample time as far as the > contribution is an original research article. The articles should > certainly be unpublished. > > 2. There are no hard and fast rules about the length of > contributions. We will not mind a hard core critically researched > paper either of one page or hundred pages. I am just concerned about > originality and quality. > > 3. All the papers should be submitted computer typewritten in a > proper scholarly format with a detailed bibliography and a personal > introduction of the contributor. > > A PDF copy of the letter is enclosed herewith for the circulation in > your department, university, institute or scholarly organization. I > am quite hopeful that you will try to contribute for the said > volume. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any > questions. With my best regards. > > Yours sincerely, > > > (Mrinal Kaul) > > A/p Concordia University > Department of Religion, FA-101 > 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd West > Montreal, Quebec > CANADA H3G 1M8 > Cell: +1-514-8028228 > e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org > > > -- > BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 1036480379) is spam: > Spam: https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=1036480379&m=296536603ed6&c=s > Not spam: https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=1036480379&m=296536603ed6&c=n > Forget vote: https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=1036480379&m=296536603ed6&c=f > ------------------------------------------------------ > END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Sun May 9 17:18:21 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sun, 09 May 10 10:18:21 -0700 Subject: book request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089518.23782.6568673479166516429.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1322 Lines: 32 I do not know if the following will be of any help. I hope the name of the author has been correctly reported. But I know of one Kumudranjan Das who wrote about Maharaja Krishnachandra of Nadia belonging to the middle of the eighteenth century. ?His books should be available at the Bangiya Sahitya Parishat?in?Calcutta. He was associated with the Parishat in the sixties. If the reported Kumudnath Mallik?belonged to the Mallik family of North Calcutta whose old house still stands on the road linking the R.G. Kar Road and the Bidhan Sarani, the book might exist in the library of the family there which produced some?scholars. I?had a book written and presented by a member of the family but cannot trace it immediately. It was not about Krishnachandra Best? DB --- On Sun, 5/9/10, Joel Bordeaux wrote: From: Joel Bordeaux Subject: book request To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Sunday, May 9, 2010, 1:41 PM I hope this isn't an inappropriate question, but does anyone have a copy of Kumudnath Mallik's 1923 [Bengali] book Maharaja Krishnacandra?? Or know of a place besides the National Library in Kolkata where it can be found? Many thanks, J. Joel Bordeaux Ph.D. candidate Department of Religion Columbia University jeb2104 at columbia.edu From jeb2104 at COLUMBIA.EDU Sun May 9 13:41:38 2010 From: jeb2104 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Joel Bordeaux) Date: Sun, 09 May 10 19:11:38 +0530 Subject: book request Message-ID: <161227089516.23782.7989079224489149780.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 340 Lines: 13 I hope this isn't an inappropriate question, but does anyone have a copy of Kumudnath Mallik's 1923 [Bengali] book Maharaja Krishnacandra? Or know of a place besides the National Library in Kolkata where it can be found? Many thanks, J. Joel Bordeaux Ph.D. candidate Department of Religion Columbia University jeb2104 at columbia.edu From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun May 9 18:32:20 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 09 May 10 20:32:20 +0200 Subject: More online dictionaries Message-ID: <161227089521.23782.10116127285979657959.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 44 Lines: 6 http://doc.thanhsiang.org/Online_Dic DW From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun May 9 21:12:57 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 09 May 10 23:12:57 +0200 Subject: book request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089523.23782.1247038776867465155.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 767 Lines: 33 It's not Maharaja Krishnacandra, but there's a digitized copy of Kumudnath Mallik's Satidaha in the Digital Library of India. See the link here: http://tinyurl.com/3663smc Sincerely, Dr Dominik Wujastyk Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Vienna Austria On 9 May 2010 15:41, Joel Bordeaux wrote: > I hope this isn't an inappropriate question, but does anyone have a copy of > Kumudnath Mallik's 1923 [Bengali] book Maharaja Krishnacandra? Or know of a > place besides the National Library in Kolkata where it can be found? > > Many thanks, > J. > > Joel Bordeaux > Ph.D. candidate > Department of Religion > Columbia University > jeb2104 at columbia.edu > From fmgerety at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Mon May 10 15:09:29 2010 From: fmgerety at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Finnian Moore Gerety) Date: Mon, 10 May 10 11:09:29 -0400 Subject: host gift In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089527.23782.5011477874600605612.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2192 Lines: 68 Regarding atithi in Vedic literature: I recall an interesting (and funny!) narrative in which Indra advises Manu on how to be a proper "host" (atithi-pati) for two visiting Asura-priests. See Mait.S. 4.8.1 and Katha S. 30.1. Finn graduate student Dept. Sanskrit & Indian Studies Harvard University On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Herman Tull wrote: > I would think he/she should be able to get some interesting information by > looking at the term for "guest" (atithi)--references to the atithi are > sprinkled throughout Vedic literature. ?As Tim says, if it's the other way > around...? (Maybe a bottle of merlot?) > > Herman Tull > Princeton, NJ > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "tccahill" > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 11:43 AM > To: > Subject: Re: host gift > >> ... apart >>> >>> from dAna and pratidAna, is there any specific term for >>> host or hostess gift in Sanskrit? And does anybody know >>> (specific!) text references and/or secondary literature >>> regarding this topic? I am aware of most dAna literature. >> >> See Ludo Rocher's edition and translation: >> *Jiimuutavaahana's Daayabhaaga; The Hindu Law of Inheritance >> in Bengal* Oxford, 2002. >> >> On p. 137, n. 9 of the translation he writes: >> "A welcoming present" (maadhuparkika) ... is the present >> which some guests receive along with a welcoming madhuparka, >> "honey-based mixture." >> >> On p. 311 of the text, Rocher provides the verse on lines >> five and six. The word "maadhuparkika" occurs on line two, >> towards the end. After that he includes the reference to >> Manu (M. 9.206). This might be useful in case your student >> would like to read commentaries on who is deserving of the >> madhuparka offering. I'm afraid I can't provide specific >> reference to those. >> >> ?If "host gift" means something to be presented *to* the >> host, well, I don't know anything about that. >> >> best, >> Tim Cahill >> >> Timothy C. Cahill >> Associate Professor and Chair >> Department of Religious Studies >> Loyola University New Orleans >> 6363 St. Charles Ave. >> New Orleans, LA ?70118 >> > > From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Mon May 10 11:05:43 2010 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Mon, 10 May 10 13:05:43 +0200 Subject: History of Tamil Studies (in Belgium) Message-ID: <161227089525.23782.6676372300503648998.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1574 Lines: 47 dear colleagues, If somebody has access to: Xavier S.Thani Nayagam (ed.): Tamil studies abroad: a Symposium. [vii] 269 pp. [Kuala Lumpur]: International Association of Tamil Research, 1968 (with papers by J. Filliozat, "Tamil Studies in French Indology"; F.B.J. Kuiper, "Dutch Studies of Tamil"8; A. Wetzler, "German Dravidology Past and Present"; A. Lehmann, "German Contribute to Tamil Studies"; R.E. Asher, "The Contribution of Scholars of British Origin to Tamil Scholarship and the Study of Tamil in Britain", etc.) May I ask him to check if the name of Philippe Vander Haeghen is somewhere quoted ? Philippe Vander Haeghen is a Belgian scholar who published a paper "De l'?tude du tamoul", in Bulletins de l'Acad?mie royale des Sciences, des Lettres et des Beaux-Arts de Belgique, vol. xxii, 1855, pp. 285-304, and then in 1858 a series of Maximes populaires de l'Inde m?ridionale, Paris - Bruxelles - Leipzig http://books.google.be/books?id=yMITAAAAQAAJ (Tamil proverbs in Tamil script) The book was published "sous la protection de (...) M. le Docteur Charles Graul, un des hommes les plus vers?s dans la litt?rature tamoule" For the 4 vols of the Bibliotheca Tamulica (1854-1865) by Karl Graul, see: http://books.google.be/books?id=pnUIAAAAQAAJ http://books.google.be/books?id=4qY-AAAAcAAJ http://books.google.com/books?id=dFIIAAAAQAAJ http://www.archive.org/details/kuraltiruvalluv00germgoog Thank you very much, With best wishes, Christophe Vielle -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ From mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM Mon May 10 20:45:22 2010 From: mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Mon, 10 May 10 16:45:22 -0400 Subject: Invitation for Contribution in the Volume on "Persian in Kashmir" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089529.23782.4664515983263159893.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4099 Lines: 91 Dear Prof Witzel, Thank you very much for your nice message. I am aware that you do not specialize in Persian studies, but since the mail went to the Indology common group, it was bound to come to you as well. At the same time I would like to add that if you know some potential Persianists, please forward the email to them. I shall be really grateful if you can do that for me. Yes, after I continuously rejected three D.Phil. offers from Oxford for lack of funding, I was very much looking forward to get into some good graduate school in the States where I could learn in an intellectually elite atmosphere. But unfortunately, I finally joined Concordia University in Montreal and doing Indology at this place continues to be a worst experience ever in my life. In fact I am not sure if I would be continuing here or not. But I do welcome your offer and I do look forward cooperating with you in future even if I ultimately have to quit Indology because of lack of favourable opportunities. With my best regards. Yours sincerely, Mrinal Kaul ************************ Mrinal Kaul Concordia University, Department of Religion, FA-101 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd West Montreal, Quebec CANADA H3G 1M8 ************************* Cell: +1-514-8028228 e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org www.mrinalkaul.art.officelive.com On 2010-05-09, at 7:53 AM, Michael Witzel wrote: > Dear Mrinal, > > many thanks for your kind invitation. Unfortunately, I do not specialize in Persian, so I cannot participate. > I still regret very much that we could not accommodate you with us: too much competition. But perhaps we can cooperate in the future, e.g. on Pandits' rituals: how do you keep up with them outside Kashmir proper? > > With my best wishes, > > M. WItzel > > > > > On May 8, 2010, at 11:59 PM, Mrinal Kaul wrote: > >> THE HARABHATTA SHASTRI >> INDOLOGICAL RESEARCH INSTITUTE >> >> # 37/4 Pandoka Colony >> Paloura, Jammu - 181121 >> Jammu & Kashmir, India >> email: harbhattashastri at gmail.com >> >> >> >> May 08, 2010 >> >> >> Dear Friends, >> >> We are planning to bring out a volume focusing the contribution of Kashmirian Persianists to the Persian literature. This volume, as we are planning it to be, will serve as an encyclopaedic manual on "Kashmiri Persian scholars and their Works". We invite an original and highly critical piece of essay written in English by you to be included in the volume. We also encourage you to circulate this letter amongst your colleagues who you think are capable of contributing to this volume. >> >> 1. The formal deadline for submission is decided to be 31 December 2010. But since I am looking after the project, I would say that I am ready to offer any contributor ample time as far as the contribution is an original research article. The articles should certainly be unpublished. >> >> 2. There are no hard and fast rules about the length of contributions. We will not mind a hard core critically researched paper either of one page or hundred pages. I am just concerned about originality and quality. >> >> 3. All the papers should be submitted computer typewritten in a proper scholarly format with a detailed bibliography and a personal introduction of the contributor. >> >> A PDF copy of the letter is enclosed herewith for the circulation in your department, university, institute or scholarly organization. I am quite hopeful that you will try to contribute for the said volume. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions. With my best regards. >> >> Yours sincerely, >> >> >> (Mrinal Kaul) >> >> A/p Concordia University >> Department of Religion, FA-101 >> 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd West >> Montreal, Quebec >> CANADA H3G 1M8 >> Cell: +1-514-8028228 >> e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org > > ============ > Michael Witzel > witzel at fas.harvard.edu > > > Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University > 1 Bow Street, > Cambridge MA 02138, USA > > phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; > my direct line: 617- 496 2990 From mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM Mon May 10 23:16:06 2010 From: mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Mon, 10 May 10 19:16:06 -0400 Subject: Invitation for Contribution in the Volume on "Persian in Kashmir" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089531.23782.6179491105128699706.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3142 Lines: 82 I deeply apologize for sending in a personal message to the Indology group. Please ignore it. MK ************************ Mrinal Kaul Concordia University, Department of Religion, FA-101 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd West Montreal, Quebec CANADA H3G 1M8 ************************* Cell: +1-514-8028228 e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org www.mrinalkaul.art.officelive.com On 2010-05-09, at 7:53 AM, Michael Witzel wrote: > Dear Mrinal, > > many thanks for your kind invitation. Unfortunately, I do not specialize in Persian, so I cannot participate. > I still regret very much that we could not accommodate you with us: too much competition. But perhaps we can cooperate in the future, e.g. on Pandits' rituals: how do you keep up with them outside Kashmir proper? > > With my best wishes, > > M. WItzel > > > > > On May 8, 2010, at 11:59 PM, Mrinal Kaul wrote: > >> THE HARABHATTA SHASTRI >> INDOLOGICAL RESEARCH INSTITUTE >> >> # 37/4 Pandoka Colony >> Paloura, Jammu - 181121 >> Jammu & Kashmir, India >> email: harbhattashastri at gmail.com >> >> >> >> May 08, 2010 >> >> >> Dear Friends, >> >> We are planning to bring out a volume focusing the contribution of Kashmirian Persianists to the Persian literature. This volume, as we are planning it to be, will serve as an encyclopaedic manual on "Kashmiri Persian scholars and their Works". We invite an original and highly critical piece of essay written in English by you to be included in the volume. We also encourage you to circulate this letter amongst your colleagues who you think are capable of contributing to this volume. >> >> 1. The formal deadline for submission is decided to be 31 December 2010. But since I am looking after the project, I would say that I am ready to offer any contributor ample time as far as the contribution is an original research article. The articles should certainly be unpublished. >> >> 2. There are no hard and fast rules about the length of contributions. We will not mind a hard core critically researched paper either of one page or hundred pages. I am just concerned about originality and quality. >> >> 3. All the papers should be submitted computer typewritten in a proper scholarly format with a detailed bibliography and a personal introduction of the contributor. >> >> A PDF copy of the letter is enclosed herewith for the circulation in your department, university, institute or scholarly organization. I am quite hopeful that you will try to contribute for the said volume. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions. With my best regards. >> >> Yours sincerely, >> >> >> (Mrinal Kaul) >> >> A/p Concordia University >> Department of Religion, FA-101 >> 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd West >> Montreal, Quebec >> CANADA H3G 1M8 >> Cell: +1-514-8028228 >> e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org > > ============ > Michael Witzel > witzel at fas.harvard.edu > > > Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University > 1 Bow Street, > Cambridge MA 02138, USA > > phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; > my direct line: 617- 496 2990 From cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET Mon May 10 23:44:34 2010 From: cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET (George Cardona) Date: Mon, 10 May 10 19:44:34 -0400 Subject: Invitation for Contribution in the Volume on "Persian in Kashmir" Message-ID: <161227089533.23782.13443401968600871022.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4810 Lines: 100 Dear Mrinal, Sorry to intrude on a person correspondence, but I'm curious about your bad experience at Concordia. If you feel you can share with me, I'd like to know what makes it so bad, since one of our former students at U of Penn. is on the faculty there. Incidentally, he was not my proper student, just took a few courses with me. I hope things get better for you. With regards, George Cardona -----Original Message----- >From: Mrinal Kaul >Sent: May 10, 2010 4:45 PM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: Re: Invitation for Contribution in the Volume on "Persian in Kashmir" > >Dear Prof Witzel, > >Thank you very much for your nice message. I am aware that you do not specialize in Persian studies, but since the mail went to the Indology common group, it was bound to come to you as well. At the same time I would like to add that if you know some potential Persianists, please forward the email to them. I shall be really grateful if you can do that for me. > >Yes, after I continuously rejected three D.Phil. offers from Oxford for lack of funding, I was very much looking forward to get into some good graduate school in the States where I could learn in an intellectually elite atmosphere. But unfortunately, I finally joined Concordia University in Montreal and doing Indology at this place continues to be a worst experience ever in my life. In fact I am not sure if I would be continuing here or not. But I do welcome your offer and I do look forward cooperating with you in future even if I ultimately have to quit Indology because of lack of favourable opportunities. With my best regards. > >Yours sincerely, > >Mrinal Kaul > > >************************ >Mrinal Kaul >Concordia University, >Department of Religion, FA-101 >1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd West >Montreal, Quebec >CANADA H3G 1M8 >************************* >Cell: +1-514-8028228 >e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org >www.mrinalkaul.art.officelive.com > >On 2010-05-09, at 7:53 AM, Michael Witzel wrote: > >> Dear Mrinal, >> >> many thanks for your kind invitation. Unfortunately, I do not specialize in Persian, so I cannot participate. >> I still regret very much that we could not accommodate you with us: too much competition. But perhaps we can cooperate in the future, e.g. on Pandits' rituals: how do you keep up with them outside Kashmir proper? >> >> With my best wishes, >> >> M. WItzel >> >> >> >> >> On May 8, 2010, at 11:59 PM, Mrinal Kaul wrote: >> >>> THE HARABHATTA SHASTRI >>> INDOLOGICAL RESEARCH INSTITUTE >>> >>> # 37/4 Pandoka Colony >>> Paloura, Jammu - 181121 >>> Jammu & Kashmir, India >>> email: harbhattashastri at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> May 08, 2010 >>> >>> >>> Dear Friends, >>> >>> We are planning to bring out a volume focusing the contribution of Kashmirian Persianists to the Persian literature. This volume, as we are planning it to be, will serve as an encyclopaedic manual on "Kashmiri Persian scholars and their Works". We invite an original and highly critical piece of essay written in English by you to be included in the volume. We also encourage you to circulate this letter amongst your colleagues who you think are capable of contributing to this volume. >>> >>> 1. The formal deadline for submission is decided to be 31 December 2010. But since I am looking after the project, I would say that I am ready to offer any contributor ample time as far as the contribution is an original research article. The articles should certainly be unpublished. >>> >>> 2. There are no hard and fast rules about the length of contributions. We will not mind a hard core critically researched paper either of one page or hundred pages. I am just concerned about originality and quality. >>> >>> 3. All the papers should be submitted computer typewritten in a proper scholarly format with a detailed bibliography and a personal introduction of the contributor. >>> >>> A PDF copy of the letter is enclosed herewith for the circulation in your department, university, institute or scholarly organization. I am quite hopeful that you will try to contribute for the said volume. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions. With my best regards. >>> >>> Yours sincerely, >>> >>> >>> (Mrinal Kaul) >>> >>> A/p Concordia University >>> Department of Religion, FA-101 >>> 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd West >>> Montreal, Quebec >>> CANADA H3G 1M8 >>> Cell: +1-514-8028228 >>> e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org >> >> ============ >> Michael Witzel >> witzel at fas.harvard.edu >> >> >> Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University >> 1 Bow Street, >> Cambridge MA 02138, USA >> >> phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; >> my direct line: 617- 496 2990 From cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET Mon May 10 23:45:51 2010 From: cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET (George Cardona) Date: Mon, 10 May 10 19:45:51 -0400 Subject: apology Message-ID: <161227089536.23782.4724340309314149064.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 75 Lines: 4 My apology for accidentally sending a personal message to the list. GC From rhayes at UNM.EDU Tue May 11 14:45:13 2010 From: rhayes at UNM.EDU (Richard Hayes) Date: Tue, 11 May 10 08:45:13 -0600 Subject: apology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089544.23782.5581092279019526307.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1169 Lines: 18 On May 11, 2010, at 8:21 AM, Steven Lindquist wrote: > That said, I think we all need to remember that we have all, at one point or another, voiced subjective opinions (in the heat of the moment, out of legitimate frustration, etc.) aloud or in emails that would horrify us if they were made public. I started using e-mail so long ago that new users were then given courses by the IT department at my University on how to use this new tchnology. One piece of advice has always stuck with me (even though I have occasionally failed to observe it): "Never say anything in an e-mail that you would not wish to appear on the front page of the NY Times." > I strongly urge the moderators to find a way to change the format of list emails: they appear in inboxes as sent by individuals, but then they "reply to" the group. I strongly second Professor Lindquist's strong urging. Of the many lists I receive, this Indology list results in by far the most red-faced apologies for messages sent here by mistake. (By the way, Steven, are we still on for lunch today?) Richard Hayes Department of Philosophy MSC03 2140 1 University of New Mexico Albuquerque, NM 87131-0001 From slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU Tue May 11 14:21:16 2010 From: slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU (Steven Lindquist) Date: Tue, 11 May 10 09:21:16 -0500 Subject: apology In-Reply-To: <1476168720-1273583841-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1847924272-@bda382.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <161227089541.23782.17777071095791221130.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2707 Lines: 59 I would like to strongly second this sentiment. I worked in this department at Concordia for three years and found the faculty there (S. Asia and otherwise) to be collegial, supportive, and actively engaged researchers of exceptionally strong caliber. That said, I think we all need to remember that we have all, at one point or another, voiced subjective opinions (in the heat of the moment, out of legitimate frustration, etc.) aloud or in emails that would horrify us if they were made public. We should do everyone the courtesy (those who posted and also the faculty at Concordia) of remembering that it could be any of us on the giving or receiving end of such communications (indeed, it most certainly has been, but just not publicly). Best to forget about it completely (except as a cautionary tale). I strongly urge the moderators to find a way to change the format of list emails: they appear in inboxes as sent by individuals, but then they "reply to" the group. This is clearly the reason for such errors (at least, it was in the case in my own misposting in the not too distant past). I have myself set up email rules to shuffle list emails into a special folder to try to avoid this problem, but this should be unnecessary (I have no such issues with any other list). Best, Steven -- Steven Lindquist, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Religious Studies Southern Methodist University Homepage: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui -- On May 11, 2010, at 8:17 AM, christoph.emmrich at UTORONTO.CA wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > We would like to voice our displeasure about the recent exchange on this list regarding the Department of Religion at Concordia University and express our support and our deepest appreciation of the work both in research and in teaching which has been and continues to be done by our colleagues in South Asian Studies at our fellow Canadian intitution. > > Yours sincerely, > > Christoph Emmrich, Buddhist Studies, University of Toronto > > Srilata Raman, Hinduism, University of Toronto > > ---- > > Christoph Emmrich > Assistant Professor, Buddhist Studies > Coordinator, Numata Program > University of Toronto, UTM > > christoph.emmrich at utoronto.ca > www.religion.utoronto.ca/people/facultyl/emmrich.htm > > Department and Centre for the Study of Religion > University of Toronto > Jackman Humanities Building, Room 303 > 170 St. George Street > Toronto, Ontario M5R 2M8, Canada > +1-416-918-5939 (o) > +1-416-978-1610 (f) > > Department of Historical Studies > University of Toronto, Mississauga > North Building, Room 148 > 3359 Mississauga Road North > Mississauga, ON L5L 1C6, Canada > +1-905-828-3744 (o) > +1-905-569-4412 (f) > From slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU Tue May 11 15:57:09 2010 From: slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU (Steven Lindquist) Date: Tue, 11 May 10 10:57:09 -0500 Subject: ADMIN: Change in the "reply" function of INDOLOGY In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089549.23782.8871546908354220000.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1583 Lines: 42 An alternative might be to have all list emails come automatically tagged with "INDOLOGY" at the start of the subject line. At least then there is an immediate visual cue that it is not a personal message (something similar has worked well, but not flawlessly, on certain others lists I use). -- Steven Lindquist, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Religious Studies Southern Methodist University Homepage: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui -- On May 11, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > I've just switched the list's default behaviour to "Reply to Sender" rather > than "Reply to List". Let's see how we like it. > > In the 20-year history of this INDOLOGY list, this topic has of course come > up before. In the past, the consensus has been that "reply to list" is a > greater convenience, and "reply to sender" is not what most people want for > most postings. > > Anyhow, let's see. Times change. > > Best, > Dominik Wujastyk > > INDOLOGY duty committee member > > > On 11 May 2010 16:21, Steven Lindquist wrote: > >> I strongly urge the moderators to find a way to change the format of list >> emails: they appear in inboxes as sent by individuals, but then they "reply >> to" the group. This is clearly the reason for such errors (at least, it was >> in the case in my own misposting in the not too distant past). I have >> myself set up email rules to shuffle list emails into a special folder to >> try to avoid this problem, but this should be unnecessary (I have no such >> issues with any other list). >> >> From christoph.emmrich at UTORONTO.CA Tue May 11 13:17:21 2010 From: christoph.emmrich at UTORONTO.CA (christoph.emmrich at UTORONTO.CA) Date: Tue, 11 May 10 13:17:21 +0000 Subject: apology In-Reply-To: <4574268.1273535151555.JavaMail.root@mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <161227089539.23782.5116316807939421432.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1414 Lines: 49 Dear Colleagues, We would like to voice our displeasure about the recent exchange on this list regarding the Department of Religion at Concordia University and express our support and our deepest appreciation of the work both in research and in teaching which has been and continues to be done by our colleagues in South Asian Studies at our fellow Canadian intitution. Yours sincerely, Christoph Emmrich, Buddhist Studies, University of Toronto Srilata Raman, Hinduism, University of Toronto ---- Christoph Emmrich Assistant Professor, Buddhist Studies Coordinator, Numata Program University of Toronto, UTM christoph.emmrich at utoronto.ca www.religion.utoronto.ca/people/facultyl/emmrich.htm Department and Centre for the Study of Religion University of Toronto Jackman Humanities Building, Room 303 170 St. George Street Toronto, Ontario M5R 2M8, Canada +1-416-918-5939 (o) +1-416-978-1610 (f) Department of Historical Studies University of Toronto, Mississauga North Building, Room 148 3359 Mississauga Road North Mississauga, ON L5L 1C6, Canada +1-905-828-3744 (o) +1-905-569-4412 (f) Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network -----Original Message----- From: George Cardona Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 19:45:51 To: Subject: apology My apology for accidentally sending a personal message to the list. GC From mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM Tue May 11 19:21:46 2010 From: mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Tue, 11 May 10 15:21:46 -0400 Subject: Apology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089564.23782.16391258007372622345.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2344 Lines: 29 Dear Indologists, The responses to my too broadly worded posting have been kinder than it deserved. Upon reflection, I find myself surprised by the understanding some senior scholars such as Dr. Dominik Wujastyk have displayed of why I, a graduate student, could have written the way I wrote. I made a mistake not just in posting a private message to the entire list but also in expressing myself the way I did, as well as in arriving at the view I expressed. I am sorry. After some persons who care for me questioned me privately, I realise that I should have critically examined my own assumptions and expectations and that I should not have used such a broad brush in speaking of my experience at Concordia. Having recently come from India to North America, I should spent more time to understand the differences between university systems, particularly the differences between their philosophies of education and organizations, and the changes that are taking place in Western universities. My phrase "doing Indology in Concordia" should have been accompanied by a statement on university experience in general and on some aspects of studying Indology in North America. I am NOT dissatisfied with the professors in the Department of Religion at Concordia. I am at Concordia because of Professor Shaman Hatley who, besides being a wonderful man, is a very good specialist of the field that interests me and is a meticulous Sanskritist. As my advisor, he has been extremely supportive all the time. I obviously do not have any complaints about Dr T.S. Rukmani. Many of you must be aware of her scholarly achievements and her prolific research output in the field of Yoga in particular. Also, I know that the work done by Dr Leslie Orr on Tamil inscriptions is viewed as original and highly significant. Again, my apologies for the time I made you spend because of my mistake and for the damage I might have caused to the image of the Department of Religion at Concordia. In the future I will try to express myself more carefully. Yours sincerely, Mrinal Kaul ************************ Mrinal Kaul Concordia University, Department of Religion, FA-101 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd West Montreal, Quebec CANADA H3G 1M8 ************************* Cell: +1-514-8028228 e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org www.mrinalkaul.art.officelive.com From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue May 11 15:43:56 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 11 May 10 17:43:56 +0200 Subject: ADMIN: Change in the "reply" function of INDOLOGY Message-ID: <161227089547.23782.10763787203593172800.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1030 Lines: 30 I've just switched the list's default behaviour to "Reply to Sender" rather than "Reply to List". Let's see how we like it. In the 20-year history of this INDOLOGY list, this topic has of course come up before. In the past, the consensus has been that "reply to list" is a greater convenience, and "reply to sender" is not what most people want for most postings. Anyhow, let's see. Times change. Best, Dominik Wujastyk INDOLOGY duty committee member On 11 May 2010 16:21, Steven Lindquist wrote: > I strongly urge the moderators to find a way to change the format of list > emails: they appear in inboxes as sent by individuals, but then they "reply > to" the group. This is clearly the reason for such errors (at least, it was > in the case in my own misposting in the not too distant past). I have > myself set up email rules to shuffle list emails into a special folder to > try to avoid this problem, but this should be unnecessary (I have no such > issues with any other list). > > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue May 11 15:56:40 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 11 May 10 17:56:40 +0200 Subject: apology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089552.23782.6013782307678628240.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1483 Lines: 34 It is generous and courteous of colleagues at Toronto to publicly support their colleagues at Concordia. I also think that it is not particularly improper for a grad student to complain publicly about their experiences. I'm sure none of us wants to mute the grad students, and it's important to know if things aren't right either from the teachers' or the students' point of view. Of course there is the question of the appropriateness of such a posting in a public academic forum like this, but really since the creation of the many websites like ratemyprofessors.com, and the rise of social networking, we know that edgy student opinion is a matter of very public record. And we all also know that official channels of complaint don't always work as well as we would all like. I think Steven has said it best. Dominik On 11 May 2010 16:21, Steven Lindquist wrote: > > That said, I think we all need to remember that we have all, at one point > or another, voiced subjective opinions (in the heat of the moment, out of > legitimate frustration, etc.) aloud or in emails that would horrify us if > they were made public. We should do everyone the courtesy (those who posted > and also the faculty at Concordia) of remembering that it could be any of us > on the giving or receiving end of such communications (indeed, it most > certainly has been, but just not publicly). Best to forget about it > completely (except as a cautionary tale). > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue May 11 16:03:57 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 11 May 10 18:03:57 +0200 Subject: ADMIN: Change in the "reply" function of INDOLOGY In-Reply-To: <3E2F5F44-4B01-480C-BF67-B56903978B1A@mail.smu.edu> Message-ID: <161227089555.23782.5017101585890159054.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2125 Lines: 68 Okay, I've done this too ("[INDOLOGY]" in the subject header). Incidentally, all members of this forum can tweak these kinds of setting for themselves, individually, if they wish. And I had to replace "Steven Lindquist " in the reply field of this email with the INDOLOGY address. So it's working. Best, Dominik INDOLOGY list duty committee member On 11 May 2010 17:57, Steven Lindquist wrote: > An alternative might be to have all list emails come automatically tagged > with "INDOLOGY" at the start of the subject line. At least then there is an > immediate visual cue that it is not a personal message (something similar > has worked well, but not flawlessly, on certain others lists I use). > > -- > Steven Lindquist, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Religious Studies > Southern Methodist University > Homepage: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui > -- > > On May 11, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > > I've just switched the list's default behaviour to "Reply to Sender" > rather > > than "Reply to List". Let's see how we like it. > > > > In the 20-year history of this INDOLOGY list, this topic has of course > come > > up before. In the past, the consensus has been that "reply to list" is a > > greater convenience, and "reply to sender" is not what most people want > for > > most postings. > > > > Anyhow, let's see. Times change. > > > > Best, > > Dominik Wujastyk > > > > INDOLOGY duty committee member > > > > > > On 11 May 2010 16:21, Steven Lindquist wrote: > > > >> I strongly urge the moderators to find a way to change the format of > list > >> emails: they appear in inboxes as sent by individuals, but then they > "reply > >> to" the group. This is clearly the reason for such errors (at least, it > was > >> in the case in my own misposting in the not too distant past). I have > >> myself set up email rules to shuffle list emails into a special folder > to > >> try to avoid this problem, but this should be unnecessary (I have no > such > >> issues with any other list). > >> > >> > From Loriliai.Biernacki at COLORADO.EDU Wed May 12 01:11:53 2010 From: Loriliai.Biernacki at COLORADO.EDU (Loriliai Biernacki) Date: Tue, 11 May 10 19:11:53 -0600 Subject: ADMIN: Change in the "reply" function of INDOLOGY In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089569.23782.9752545948662693233.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1584 Lines: 50 This seems like a good option. Folks can hit "reply all" to send to the whole list, still only one stroke, and just hit "reply" if they want the reply to go to only the sender. All best, Loriliai > I've just switched the list's default behaviour to "Reply to Sender" rather > than "Reply to List". Let's see how we like it. > > In the 20-year history of this INDOLOGY list, this topic has of course come > up before. In the past, the consensus has been that "reply to list" is a > greater convenience, and "reply to sender" is not what most people want for > most postings. > > Anyhow, let's see. Times change. > > Best, > Dominik Wujastyk > > INDOLOGY duty committee member > > > On 11 May 2010 16:21, Steven Lindquist wrote: > >> I strongly urge the moderators to find a way to change the format of list >> emails: they appear in inboxes as sent by individuals, but then they "reply >> to" the group. This is clearly the reason for such errors (at least, it was >> in the case in my own misposting in the not too distant past). I have >> myself set up email rules to shuffle list emails into a special folder to >> try to avoid this problem, but this should be unnecessary (I have no such >> issues with any other list). >> >> Best wishes, Dr. Biernacki -- Prof. Biernacki Associate Professor, Religious Studies Associate Chair of Undergraduate Studies University of Colorado at Boulder UCB 292 Boulder, CO 80309 303-735-4730 Loriliai.Biernacki at colorado.edu http://www.colorado.edu/ReligiousStudies/faculty/loriliai.biernacki.html From jkirk at SPRO.NET Wed May 12 01:22:25 2010 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick) Date: Tue, 11 May 10 19:22:25 -0600 Subject: ADMIN: Change in the "reply" function of INDOLOGY In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089572.23782.6331542808168912273.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 265 Lines: 14 Wicked good! Thanks for the change. Joanna K. ______________ This seems like a good option. Folks can hit "reply all" to send to the whole list, still only one stroke, and just hit "reply" if they want the reply to go to only the sender. All best, Loriliai From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Tue May 11 17:34:41 2010 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Tue, 11 May 10 19:34:41 +0200 Subject: Extended deadline for PhD and Post-doc positions: Buddhism and Social Justice Message-ID: <161227089558.23782.4587050756399897867.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1549 Lines: 46 Dear Colleagues: This was sent out some time ago, but the deadline has been extended, and I have made explicit the flexibility in the positions. I have been fortunate enough to receive funding from the Dutch National Science Foundation (NWO) for a project on "Buddhism and Social Justice." Now comes the task of finding PhD students and a post-doc to collaborate in this project. Since the fields range from Sri Lanka to Japan to Tibet to Korea, I truly need the help of colleagues and friends to make known these opportunities and to bring them to the attention of qualified candidates. May I ask your help in this? Here are two web links with the shorter and then the full project information: http://www.hum.leiden.edu/lias/highlights/phd-vacancies-silk.html http://www.hum.leiden.edu/lias/research/sas/vici-project-silk.html If you know of anyone who might be qualified, or have suggestions of names of those to whom I should send this information, I would be very much in your debt! It is also possible that a project not exactly outlined in this proposal, but that would fit with it, could be considered for any of the positions (e.g., a Chinese project instead of Korea, Thailand or Burma instead of Sri Lanka). It is also possible that a post-doc work in a PhD area and vice versa. very best thanks in advance, Jonathan PS: please ignore the deadline date of 23 April which may still be on the website--it has been updated to June 1st. -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Tue May 11 18:36:46 2010 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Tue, 11 May 10 20:36:46 +0200 Subject: correction Message-ID: <161227089561.23782.12470404481029002158.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 234 Lines: 14 It appears that one of the links in my earlier post was defective. Sorry! http://hum.leiden.edu/lias/research/news/phd-vacancies-silk.html -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden Netherlands From will.sweetman at GMAIL.COM Tue May 11 21:22:32 2010 From: will.sweetman at GMAIL.COM (Will Sweetman) Date: Tue, 11 May 10 22:22:32 +0100 Subject: History of Tamil Studies (in Belgium) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089567.23782.4200134568372587307.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1909 Lines: 40 Dear Christophe, So far as I can tell, there is no mention of Philippe Vander Haeghen in the book. The final chapter by the editor has brief notes on several other European countries, but Belgium is not among them. Best wishes Will Sweetman On 10/05/2010, at 12:05 PM, Christophe Vielle wrote: > dear colleagues, > > If somebody has access to: > > Xavier S.Thani Nayagam (ed.): Tamil studies abroad: a Symposium. [vii] 269 pp. [Kuala Lumpur]: International Association of Tamil Research, 1968 (with papers by J. Filliozat, "Tamil Studies in French Indology"; F.B.J. Kuiper, "Dutch Studies of Tamil"8; A. Wetzler, "German Dravidology Past and Present"; A. Lehmann, "German Contribute to Tamil Studies"; R.E. Asher, "The Contribution of Scholars of British Origin to Tamil Scholarship and the Study of Tamil in Britain", etc.) > > May I ask him to check if the name of Philippe Vander Haeghen is somewhere quoted ? > > Philippe Vander Haeghen is a Belgian scholar who published a paper "De l'?tude du tamoul", in Bulletins de l'Acad?mie royale des Sciences, des Lettres et des Beaux-Arts de Belgique, vol. xxii, 1855, pp. 285-304, and then in 1858 a series of > Maximes populaires de l'Inde m?ridionale, Paris - Bruxelles - Leipzig > http://books.google.be/books?id=yMITAAAAQAAJ > (Tamil proverbs in Tamil script) > The book was published "sous la protection de (...) M. le Docteur Charles Graul, un des hommes les plus vers?s dans la litt?rature tamoule" > > For the 4 vols of the Bibliotheca Tamulica (1854-1865) by Karl Graul, see: > http://books.google.be/books?id=pnUIAAAAQAAJ > http://books.google.be/books?id=4qY-AAAAcAAJ > http://books.google.com/books?id=dFIIAAAAQAAJ > http://www.archive.org/details/kuraltiruvalluv00germgoog > > Thank you very much, > With best wishes, > > Christophe Vielle > -- > http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle > http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ From annamisia at YAHOO.COM Wed May 12 07:04:50 2010 From: annamisia at YAHOO.COM (Anna A. Slaczka) Date: Wed, 12 May 10 00:04:50 -0700 Subject: ADMIN: Change in the "reply" function of INDOLOGY In-Reply-To: <3E2F5F44-4B01-480C-BF67-B56903978B1A@mail.smu.edu> Message-ID: <161227089574.23782.9648715630089773819.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2387 Lines: 82 Dear Colleagues, I understand that in our busy times one may read an email too quickly but nobody so far remarked that the emails sent to Indology are clearly marked TO: INDOLOGY and not TO: Anna Slaczka, for example. [reading emails too quickly is a mistake I commited right now sending my (first) reply to Steve instead of Indology List :-)] Cheers, Anna Slaczka, Curator South Asian Art Rijksmuseum Amsterdam. --- On Tue, 5/11/10, Steven Lindquist wrote: > From: Steven Lindquist > Subject: Re: ADMIN: Change in the "reply" function of INDOLOGY > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Tuesday, May 11, 2010, 5:57 PM > An alternative might be to have all > list emails come automatically tagged with "INDOLOGY" at the > start of the subject line.? At least then there is an > immediate visual cue that it is not a personal message > (something similar has worked well, but not flawlessly, on > certain others lists I use). > > -- > Steven Lindquist, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Religious Studies > Southern Methodist University > Homepage: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui > -- > > On May 11, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > > I've just switched the list's default behaviour to > "Reply to Sender" rather > > than "Reply to List".? Let's see how we like it. > > > > In the 20-year history of this INDOLOGY list, this > topic has of course come > > up before.? In the past, the consensus has been > that "reply to list" is a > > greater convenience, and "reply to sender" is not what > most people want for > > most postings. > > > > Anyhow, let's see.? Times change. > > > > Best, > > Dominik Wujastyk > > > > INDOLOGY duty committee member > > > > > > On 11 May 2010 16:21, Steven Lindquist > wrote: > > > >> I strongly urge the moderators to find a way to > change the format of list > >> emails: they appear in inboxes as sent by > individuals, but then they "reply > >> to" the group.? This is clearly the reason > for such errors (at least, it was > >> in the case in my own misposting in the not too > distant past).? I have > >> myself set up email rules to shuffle list emails > into a special folder to > >> try to avoid this problem, but this should be > unnecessary (I have no such > >> issues with any other list). > >> > >> > From peter_scharf at BROWN.EDU Thu May 13 20:09:16 2010 From: peter_scharf at BROWN.EDU (Peter Scharf) Date: Thu, 13 May 10 16:09:16 -0400 Subject: ADMIN: Change in the "reply" function of INDOLOGY In-Reply-To: <776723.73323.qm@web55908.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227089576.23782.6152566877196494333.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1271 Lines: 30 Dear Colleagues, I am happy to announce that we have hired Dr. Matthias Ahlborn of Cologne, Germany in the position of post-doctoral research associate in the Sankrit library project in the Classics Department at Brown University. Dr. Ahlborn comes to us with a unique combination of expertise in Sanskrit and computational skills. He obtained his doctorate in Indology at the University of W?rzurg with a computer aided Critical Edition and Translation of the Pratij??yaugandhar?ya?a in 2007 and has since then taught Sanskrit and Indian Philosophy there. He worked for several years on the Bh?sa- Project, properly titled, "W?rzburger Multimediale Datenbank zum Sanskrit-Schauspiel." I am very pleased to have him join the Sanskrit library project at Brown. Yours, Peter Scharf ********************************************************* Peter M. Scharf (401) 863-2720 office Department of Classics (401) 863-2123 dept. Brown University PO Box 1856 (401) 863-7484 fax Providence, RI 02912 Scharf at brown.edu http://www.research.brown.edu/research/profile.php?id=10044 http://sanskritlibrary.org/ ********************************************************* From frederick-smith at UIOWA.EDU Fri May 14 01:26:55 2010 From: frederick-smith at UIOWA.EDU (Smith, Frederick M) Date: Thu, 13 May 10 20:26:55 -0500 Subject: Putrikaa Message-ID: <161227089579.23782.3632307720028289946.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 995 Lines: 33 On behalf of someone who does not subscribe to Indology, I submit the following query: Dear group, I am seeking the precise text and addresses of two verses imperfectly remembered. ?The first is a verse that I am sure is in Shantiparva, but which I have never been able to locate again, not even with the pratika index nor by searching the electronic text. ?The first half verse goes something like this: ????? ??????? ????? ?????? ???????? ?? ???? Or maybe: ?????? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ???????? ????????? Anyway, the original will be very like this. The second verse, I remember only in sense, and I am not sure if it is also to be found in Mahabharata: probably, but I remember it from elsewhere, some other dharmashastra. ?The verse tells that an adulteress is purified by the next menstruation following her crime, and after that is fit to be touched by her husband again. ?I am sure the verse must be notorious, perhaps common in dharmashastras. Phillip Naganathapura, Bengaluru From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Sat May 15 15:06:29 2010 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Sat, 15 May 10 10:06:29 -0500 Subject: Reference In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089581.23782.4456603777044016762.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 296 Lines: 14 Dear Pa??itasabh?!: Could a generous soul provide me with the reference to this verse that I have simply as from Hemacandra: Kytoto transliteration: zuzruuSaa zravaNaM caiva grahaNaM dhaaraNaa tathaa | uuho 'poho 'rthavijJaanaM tattvajJaanaM ca dhiiguNaaH || Thank you very much. Patrick From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sat May 15 18:39:15 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 15 May 10 20:39:15 +0200 Subject: Reference In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089584.23782.6696613254629931599.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1129 Lines: 47 It's in the Mahabharata, Aranyakaparvan, Patrick. See online, http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil/1_sanskr/2_epic/mbh/mbh_03_u.htm and here are the verse references from the above link: 03,002.017d*0007_01 ?u?r??? ?rava?a? caiva graha?a? dh?ra?a? tath? 03,002.017d*0007_02 ?h?poho 'pi vij??na? tattvaj??na? ca dh?gu??? All the best, Dominik Dr Dominik Wujastyk Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Vienna Austria -- long term email address: wujastyk at gmail.com PGP key: http://wujastyk.net/pgp.html -- Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of storage free! https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTIzNzI2MTY5 On 15 May 2010 17:06, Patrick Olivelle wrote: > Dear Pa??itasabh?!: > > Could a generous soul provide me with the reference to this verse that I > have simply as from Hemacandra: > > Kytoto transliteration: > > zuzruuSaa zravaNaM caiva grahaNaM dhaaraNaa tathaa | uuho 'poho > 'rthavijJaanaM tattvajJaanaM ca dhiiguNaaH || > > Thank you very much. > > Patrick From Harunaga.Isaacson at UNI-HAMBURG.DE Sat May 15 19:04:22 2010 From: Harunaga.Isaacson at UNI-HAMBURG.DE (Harunaga Isaacson) Date: Sat, 15 May 10 21:04:22 +0200 Subject: Reference In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089587.23782.6082347008076443185.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1431 Lines: 47 Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > It's in the Mahabharata, Aranyakaparvan, Patrick. > > See online, > > http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil/1_sanskr/2_epic/mbh/mbh_03_u.htm > > and here are the verse references from the above link: > > 03,002.017d*0007_01 ?u?r??? ?rava?a? caiva graha?a? dh?ra?a? tath? > 03,002.017d*0007_02 ?h?poho 'pi vij??na? tattvaj??na? ca dh?gu??? > This is of course a starred passage (as your excerpt from the e-text shows), and it is only in three of the MSS collated by the editors of the MBh CE. When this verse is cited by commentators on literary works (as it is quite a few times) it is sometimes attributed to K?mandaka. It is indeed found in the K?mandak?ya N?tis?ra; it is 4.21 in the Trivandrum Sanskrit Series edition (ed. T Ganapati Sastri, Trivandrum 1912). The numbering differs in other editions, but this verse is I think present in all of them. But it is quite likely that it can be found in some other sources too, perhaps even in one of Hemacandra's works (presumably Patrick has a quotation with attribution to Hemacandra?), though I can't supply a reference to such an occurrence at present. Harunaga Isaacson -- Prof. Dr. Harunaga Isaacson Universit?t Hamburg Asien-Afrika-Institut Abteilung f?r Kultur und Geschichte Indiens und Tibets Alsterterrasse 1 D-20354 Hamburg Germany tel. +49 (0)40 42838-3382 Alternative email: harunagaisaacson at gmail.com From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Mon May 17 04:18:59 2010 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Sun, 16 May 10 21:18:59 -0700 Subject: Contact info for Patrick A. Roche? Message-ID: <161227089590.23782.7073450026926480725.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 198 Lines: 9 I would appreciate any contact information for Patrick A. Roche, author of the book "Fishermen of the Coromandel" (Published in 1984, by Monohar Publications, New Delhi). Thanks, V.S. Rajam From hwtull at MSN.COM Mon May 17 21:46:31 2010 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Mon, 17 May 10 17:46:31 -0400 Subject: Help with keyboard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089599.23782.11282102328019528742.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2575 Lines: 73 I am a big fan of Baraha. When I first made the shift to Windows 7, Baraha produced the infamous boxes, etc. However, I think I caused the problem by changing the settings in the "Region and Language" area of the control panel (something that I think was required in XP, but apparently not in Windows 7). I set everything back to default, and Baraha started to work. Incidentally, I use Baraha Direct, and type directly into Word 2007. I realize Windows and Word are for those of us trapped in this world of nescience, but they do have great utility, and I find that with them (and Baraha) I am able to easily produce serviceable devanagari. Herman Tull Princeton, NJ -------------------------------------------------- From: "J?rgen Neuss" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 4:54 PM To: Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Help with keyboard > dear kenneth and others, > > i recently tried to install anything i know regarding diacritics, from > gandhari-unicode to baraha, on the windows 7 computer of one of my > students. I learned, to my surprise, that nothing worked at all with w7, > even though different programs use different approaches to override the > standard windows keyboard layout. i could neither find a solution nor the > reason for this, nor any kind of workaround. i simply failed. i decided to > avoid w7 for myaself, [as long as possible] and told my student to do the > same. she now uses xp again - and no problem at all with either of the > approaches tried in vain on w7. > so i can only recommend to downgrade to xp, as long as one cannot use > another os with suitable software available. > if anyone has a solution for the w7 problem, i also would be grateful for > detailed information. > > sorry, if some of you find this response lengthy and useless, what it in > fact is. > > cheers > > juergen > > > > Am Mon, 17 May 2010 20:56:07 +0200 hat Kenneth Zysk > geschrieben: > >> I just acquired a new computer with Windows 7. I downloaded Gandhari >> Unicode fonts and tried, but failed, to download the Keyman keyboard >> layout. Can someone kindly tell me how to acquire the necessary keyboard >> accessory for the Gandhari Unicode fonts with Windows 7. >> Many thanks in advance. >> Best, >> Ken >> Kenneth Zysk >> Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies >> University of Copenhagen >> Artillerivej 86 >> DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark >> Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk >> > > > -- > __________ > J?rgen Neu? > > http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~jneuss/ > From zysk at HUM.KU.DK Mon May 17 18:56:07 2010 From: zysk at HUM.KU.DK (Kenneth Zysk) Date: Mon, 17 May 10 20:56:07 +0200 Subject: Help with keyboard Message-ID: <161227089592.23782.1325706137886933567.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 477 Lines: 16 I just acquired a new computer with Windows 7. I downloaded Gandhari Unicode fonts and tried, but failed, to download the Keyman keyboard layout. Can someone kindly tell me how to acquire the necessary keyboard accessory for the Gandhari Unicode fonts with Windows 7. Many thanks in advance. Best, Ken Kenneth Zysk Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Artillerivej 86 DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk From zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE Mon May 17 19:21:12 2010 From: zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE (Prof. Robert J. Zydenbos) Date: Mon, 17 May 10 21:21:12 +0200 Subject: Help with keyboard In-Reply-To: <92CFF9099CAE6A489B45DCBF475C3226106591@exchangesrv1.hum2005.hum.ku.dk> Message-ID: <161227089594.23782.91952796121268512.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 967 Lines: 22 I avoid Windows in all its varieties as much as possible and know nothing about Windows7; but rather than using Keyman, you might consider using Dr. Smith's keyboard layout (at http://bombay.indology.info/software/fonts/induni/index.html), or the Europatastatur (http://www.europatastatur.de/), which makes typing just about any Latin-based Unicode character easy. RZ Op Mon, 17 May 2010 20:56:07 +0200 schreef Kenneth Zysk : > I just acquired a new computer with Windows 7. I downloaded Gandhari Unicode fonts and tried, but failed, to download the Keyman keyboard layout. Can someone kindly tell me how to acquire the necessary keyboard accessory for the Gandhari Unicode fonts with Windows 7. >Many thanks in advance. -- Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Institute of Indology and Tibetology Department of Asian Studies University of Munich Germany Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827 Web http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~zydenbos From juergen.neuss at FU-BERLIN.DE Mon May 17 20:54:53 2010 From: juergen.neuss at FU-BERLIN.DE (=?utf-8?Q?J=C3=BCrgen_Neuss?=) Date: Mon, 17 May 10 22:54:53 +0200 Subject: Help with keyboard In-Reply-To: <92CFF9099CAE6A489B45DCBF475C3226106591@exchangesrv1.hum2005.hum.ku.dk> Message-ID: <161227089597.23782.15917619183197734943.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1604 Lines: 52 dear kenneth and others, i recently tried to install anything i know regarding diacritics, from gandhari-unicode to baraha, on the windows 7 computer of one of my students. I learned, to my surprise, that nothing worked at all with w7, even though different programs use different approaches to override the standard windows keyboard layout. i could neither find a solution nor the reason for this, nor any kind of workaround. i simply failed. i decided to avoid w7 for myaself, [as long as possible] and told my student to do the same. she now uses xp again - and no problem at all with either of the approaches tried in vain on w7. so i can only recommend to downgrade to xp, as long as one cannot use another os with suitable software available. if anyone has a solution for the w7 problem, i also would be grateful for detailed information. sorry, if some of you find this response lengthy and useless, what it in fact is. cheers juergen Am Mon, 17 May 2010 20:56:07 +0200 hat Kenneth Zysk geschrieben: > I just acquired a new computer with Windows 7. I downloaded Gandhari > Unicode fonts and tried, but failed, to download the Keyman keyboard > layout. Can someone kindly tell me how to acquire the necessary keyboard > accessory for the Gandhari Unicode fonts with Windows 7. > Many thanks in advance. > Best, > Ken > Kenneth Zysk > Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies > University of Copenhagen > Artillerivej 86 > DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark > Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk > -- __________ J?rgen Neu? http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~jneuss/ From KiePue at T-ONLINE.DE Tue May 18 06:56:14 2010 From: KiePue at T-ONLINE.DE (=?utf-8?Q?petra_kieffer-P=C3=BClz?=) Date: Tue, 18 May 10 08:56:14 +0200 Subject: ku=?UTF-8?Q?=E1=B9=ADik=C4=81?= Message-ID: <161227089601.23782.13298557125735393246.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 618 Lines: 27 Dear All, in an old commentary (from a Buddhist context) of about the first century AD, and probably of South Indian origin, i.e. in the Andhaka??hakath?, I have the statement that after burning a corpse a hut (ku?ik?) is erected (kar?yati) for the ashes and the bones. Does anybody know whether this is some general habit or perhaps a local custom or perhaps restricted to a specific time. Any suggestions are welcome, Petra *************************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2 99423 Weimar Germany Tel. 03643/770447 email: kiepue at t-online.de petra.kieffer-puelz at adwmainz.de From rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU Tue May 18 16:14:05 2010 From: rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU (Alexander von Rospatt) Date: Tue, 18 May 10 09:14:05 -0700 Subject: OCR for Romanized Sanskrit with Diacritics Message-ID: <161227089608.23782.8515374627063031149.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1302 Lines: 35 Dear Computer-Literati, I have been in contact with Dominik Wujastyk regarding the application of OCR to romanized Sanskrit. Dominik responded: Several software packages will do that quite well, even Acrobat 9. It's critical that the exemplar is good and that the scan is not a too low a resolution. 300dpi minimum, 400dpi+ better. ... If you choose one of the better contemporary OCR packages, and really learn how to use it, I believe you can get good results even for romanized Sanskrit. The advent of Unicode has changed everything, and many software packages are now more or less obliged to be strongly multilingual and recognise a wide range of diacritcal marks... Acrobat is the only one with Clearscan font technology, I believe, which is very good it you can use it. I wonder about others' experiences in using OCR for this purpose. Which programs are most user-friendly, and which programs did you have the best results with? Many thanks, Alex Rospatt ---------------- Alexander von Rospatt, Professor and Chair Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies Head Graduate Adviser of the Group in Buddhist Studies University of California 7233 Dwinelle Hall # 2540 Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 USA Phone: +1-510-6421610 Fax: +1-510-6432959 Email: rospatt at berkeley.edu From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Tue May 18 19:11:04 2010 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Tue, 18 May 10 12:11:04 -0700 Subject: ku=?utf-8?Q?=E1=B9=ADik=C4=81?= In-Reply-To: <1302_1274165788_1274165788_4C873B97-0F7D-4CE7-A576-67DE806D131F@t-online.de> Message-ID: <161227089613.23782.3937944997484868600.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1210 Lines: 33 I am not informed well enough to answer your particular question. However, it may be helpful to you to know that a detail *partially* similar to the one you mention is found in: Jambhala-datta's Version of the Vetaala-pa;nca-vi.m;sati, ed and tr by M.B. Emeneau, New Haven, Connecticut: American Oriental Society, 1934, A.O.Series vol. 4, p. 26: aparo braahma.nas tasyaa;s citaa-bhasmani g.rha.m k.rtvaa tatraiva parih.rta-sukhas tasthau. Ashok Aklujkar Professor Emeritus University of British Columbia On 2010-05-17, at 11:56 PM, petra kieffer-P?lz wrote: > Dear All, > > in an old commentary (from a Buddhist context) of about the first century AD, and probably of South Indian origin, i.e. in the Andhaka??hakath?, I have the statement that after burning a corpse a hut (ku?ik?) is erected (kar?yati) for the ashes and the bones. > > Does anybody know whether this is some general habit or perhaps a local custom or perhaps restricted to a specific time. > > Any suggestions are welcome, > Petra > > *************************** > Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz > Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2 > 99423 Weimar > Germany > Tel. 03643/770447 > > email: > kiepue at t-online.de > petra.kieffer-puelz at adwmainz.de From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue May 18 14:39:46 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 18 May 10 16:39:46 +0200 Subject: Help with keyboard In-Reply-To: <414326.65727.qm@web94801.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227089606.23782.2198155290846210126.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1253 Lines: 36 If you have Windows 7, you can still use www.Virtualbox.org to run a genuine WinXP session in a window on the Windows 7 desktop. You'll need the original WinXP installation disks, and 10GB or so of disk space. Then you can - in your WinXP window - run all your familiar stuff. John Smith's Windows keyboard handler for Indic Unicode has been mentioned a couple of times. It's here: - http://bombay.indology.info/software/fonts/induni/index.html It works with Windows 7. In his README.txt file, he says, (On Vista or Windows 7 systems, if clicking on setup.exe fails to > install the layout, you may need to disable Microsoft's User Account > Control mechanism (UAC). Go into the Control Panel and type "UAC" into > the search box. Follow the link that appears to "Turn User Account > Control (UAC) on or off", and then uncheck the box for "Use User > Account Control (UAC) to help protect your computer", and click "OK". > You will have to reboot for the change to come into effect.) It's possible that these instructions may help with other keyboard-handlers too, I don't know. Dominik Dr Dominik Wujastyk Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Vienna Austria From kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Tue May 18 16:32:50 2010 From: kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Kellner, Birgit) Date: Tue, 18 May 10 18:32:50 +0200 Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] OCR for Romanized Sanskrit with Diacritics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089611.23782.11555267895045924017.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2492 Lines: 50 ABBYY finereader, though not cheap, is the best product I know (http://www.abbyy.com/). I use it regularly to produce searchable PDFs from scanned secondary literature, with the text underlying the image (this can also be done with Acrobat, but ABBYY is more accurate). It needs to be trained, though, to recognize romanized Sanskrit, and one probably has to define different training patterns depending on the typeface of the original (older books with "typewriter diacriticals" are a nightmare). But the training capacity is in ABBYY without limitations (whereas other products that come bundled with scanners sometimes allow you to only store up to a certain number of custom characters in a training file - last time I checked). I am wondering whether Acrobat recognizes diacritics like ?, ?, ? or ? and properly selects the fitting Unicode letters. I've never tried - does it, Dominik? Best, Birgit ________________________________________ Von: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] im Auftrag von Alexander von Rospatt [rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU] Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. Mai 2010 18:14 An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Betreff: [INDOLOGY] OCR for Romanized Sanskrit with Diacritics Dear Computer-Literati, I have been in contact with Dominik Wujastyk regarding the application of OCR to romanized Sanskrit. Dominik responded: Several software packages will do that quite well, even Acrobat 9. It's critical that the exemplar is good and that the scan is not a too low a resolution. 300dpi minimum, 400dpi+ better. ... If you choose one of the better contemporary OCR packages, and really learn how to use it, I believe you can get good results even for romanized Sanskrit. The advent of Unicode has changed everything, and many software packages are now more or less obliged to be strongly multilingual and recognise a wide range of diacritcal marks... Acrobat is the only one with Clearscan font technology, I believe, which is very good it you can use it. I wonder about others' experiences in using OCR for this purpose. Which programs are most user-friendly, and which programs did you have the best results with? Many thanks, Alex Rospatt ---------------- Alexander von Rospatt, Professor and Chair Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies Head Graduate Adviser of the Group in Buddhist Studies University of California 7233 Dwinelle Hall # 2540 Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 USA Phone: +1-510-6421610 Fax: +1-510-6432959 Email: rospatt at berkeley.edu From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Tue May 18 13:26:53 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 18 May 10 18:56:53 +0530 Subject: Help with keyboard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089604.23782.3308391296988490848.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3848 Lines: 80 Dear Colleagues, Baraha worked with my Windows 7. iLEAP did not work. But it accepted a new non-unicode inscript processor similar to iLEAP. But otherwise my experience with Windows 7 has not been happy. It does not accept the old DOS based conventional programming languages. I do not know if I have read it correctly but It seems that Windows aims at keeping its users? more and more dependent on it by withdrawing the opportunities of independent programming. My vendor advised me to instal the new?Windows based?Visual Basic Studio (Visual Studio 2008)to do programming as one formerly did with TC or QB. The Acrobat writer began to function only after that. It has some user friendly packages. That may be useful for commercial users. And, apparently, things are better.?But, perhaps, freedom is curtailed.? For me it?may take time to get used to the new set up.?To make things as good as with the previous version, it seems advisable to keep a Windows?XP ready.? However since I am no expert more knowledgeable colleagues may kindly comment. Best for all DB? --- On Mon, 17/5/10, Herman Tull wrote: From: Herman Tull Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Help with keyboard To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 17 May, 2010, 9:46 PM I am a big fan of Baraha.? When I first made the shift to Windows 7, Baraha produced the infamous boxes, etc.? However, I think I caused the problem by changing the settings in the "Region and Language" area of the control panel (something that I think was required in XP, but apparently not in Windows 7).? I set everything back to default, and Baraha started to work. Incidentally, I use Baraha Direct, and type directly into Word 2007. I realize Windows and Word are for those of us trapped in this world of nescience, but they do have great utility, and I find that with them (and Baraha) I am able to easily produce serviceable devanagari. Herman Tull Princeton, NJ -------------------------------------------------- From: "J?rgen Neuss" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 4:54 PM To: Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Help with keyboard > dear kenneth and others, > > i recently tried to install anything i know regarding diacritics, from > gandhari-unicode to baraha, on the windows 7 computer of one of my > students. I learned, to my surprise, that nothing worked at all with w7, > even though different programs use different approaches to override the > standard windows keyboard layout. i could neither find a solution nor the > reason for this, nor any kind of workaround. i simply failed. i decided to > avoid w7 for myaself, [as long as possible] and told my student to do the > same. she now uses xp again - and no problem at all with either of the > approaches tried in vain on w7. > so i can only recommend to downgrade to xp, as long as one cannot use > another os with suitable software available. > if anyone has a solution for the w7 problem, i also would be grateful for > detailed information. > > sorry, if some of you find this response lengthy and useless, what it in > fact is. > > cheers > > juergen > > > > Am Mon, 17 May 2010 20:56:07 +0200 hat Kenneth Zysk > geschrieben: > >> I just acquired a new computer with Windows 7. I downloaded Gandhari Unicode fonts and tried, but failed, to download the Keyman keyboard layout. Can someone kindly tell me how to acquire the necessary keyboard accessory for the Gandhari Unicode fonts with Windows 7. >> Many thanks in advance. >> Best, >> Ken >> Kenneth Zysk >> Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies >> University of Copenhagen >> Artillerivej 86 >> DK-2300 Copenhagen S? ? Denmark >>? Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk >> > > > -- __________ > J?rgen Neu? > > http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~jneuss/ > From xadxura at LIVE.COM Wed May 19 04:22:23 2010 From: xadxura at LIVE.COM (Andrew Glass) Date: Tue, 18 May 10 21:22:23 -0700 Subject: Help with keyboard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089618.23782.4871191874517967835.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 956 Lines: 12 > It's possible that these instructions may help with other keyboard-handlers too, I don't know. Dominik is correct about this, the UAC controls in Vista and Windows 7 block some keyboard handlers from reaching into the text stack to intercept key strokes - this is for a good reason, key logging malware can be used to record a user's password and report it to a remote machine so that someone can hack into your bank account. Therefore I wouldn't recommend turning this protection off. Rather one can right click on the installation file and select "Run as administrator". I have used this technique to successfully install the Keyman software (version 5) that Ken reported having problems with. One caveat is that this software is 32 bit and will not work on 64 bit versions of Windows even with the above technique. You can check which version of Windows you have by looking in the control panel: Control Panel\System and Security\System Andrew From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Wed May 19 01:25:45 2010 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Wed, 19 May 10 01:25:45 +0000 Subject: [INDOL OGY] ku=?utf-8?Q?=E1=B9=ADik_=C4=81?= In-Reply-To: <19F59185-896B-4D07-817C-132A3A5B515F@ubc.ca> Message-ID: <161227089615.23782.17330379899988960364.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1896 Lines: 46 I think here a few glances in Caland's Altindische Toten- und Bestattungsgebr?uche may yield some useful information. I do not have the mentioned work at hand to check, but have a recollection of having read something similar. Arlo GriffithsEFEO / Jakarta ---------------------------------------- > Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 12:11:04 -0700 > From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] ku?ik? > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > I am not informed well enough to answer your particular question. However, it may be helpful to you to know that a detail *partially* similar to the one you mention is found in: Jambhala-datta's Version of the Vetaala-pa;nca-vi.m;sati, ed and tr by M.B. Emeneau, New Haven, Connecticut: American Oriental Society, 1934, A.O.Series vol. 4, p. 26: aparo braahma.nas tasyaa;s citaa-bhasmani g.rha.m k.rtvaa tatraiva parih.rta-sukhas tasthau. > > > Ashok Aklujkar > Professor Emeritus > University of British Columbia > > > > On 2010-05-17, at 11:56 PM, petra kieffer-P?lz wrote: > >> Dear All, >> >> in an old commentary (from a Buddhist context) of about the first century AD, and probably of South Indian origin, i.e. in the Andhaka??hakath?, I have the statement that after burning a corpse a hut (ku?ik?) is erected (kar?yati) for the ashes and the bones. >> >> Does anybody know whether this is some general habit or perhaps a local custom or perhaps restricted to a specific time. >> >> Any suggestions are welcome, >> Petra >> >> *************************** >> Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz >> Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2 >> 99423 Weimar >> Germany >> Tel. 03643/770447 >> >> email: >> kiepue at t-online.de >> petra.kieffer-puelz at adwmainz.de _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU Wed May 19 11:21:23 2010 From: ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Paul G. Hackett) Date: Wed, 19 May 10 07:21:23 -0400 Subject: wget (was: Re: Abhandlungen der K=?iso-8859-15?Q?=F6nigliche?= n Ak ademie der Wissensch aften zu Berli) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089629.23782.6631699928047766627.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2575 Lines: 79 I recommend "BatchDownload" -- a Firefox plugin. It allows you to specify a base URL and auto-increment image numbers. It works on complex URLs and allow for file renaming (necessary if the image files are being served from a script). See: http://panshisoft.cn/batchdownload.htm It works on both Mac & PC platforms. Best, Paul Hackett Columbia University At 12:49 PM +0200 5/19/10, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >I was recently trying to help a colleague with the bash script below for >fetching entire books from the Digital Library of India. He had Windows, so >we installed CygWin, in order to get bash and wget. However, the script >wouldn't work. > >I finally discovered that the essential syntax I'm using below, "for i in >{X..Y..Z}", works with bash version 4, but not earlier. And CygWin's bash >is still at version 3 (so in MinGW's). > >When I type "bash --version", I get this: > >$ bash --version >> GNU bash, version 4.1.5(1)-release (i486-pc-linux-gnu) >> Copyright (C) 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc. >> License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later < >> http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html> >> > >Sorry, Windows users, it looks like you'll have to wait until bash 4 gets >into CygWin or MinGW. > >Best, >Dominik > >2010/1/14 Dominik Wujastyk > >> Birgit is quite right about the value of wget. It's an amazing little >> tool. I use it routinely to get books from the Digital Library of India, >> where texts are presented only as individual pages. >> >> Until about a year ago, one could use the "-r" recursion setting of wget >> to fetch a whole directory-full of files in one go. Then the DLI disabled >> that feature. So now one has to issue a wget command for each page. >> But it's easy to do with a small bash script like this: >> >> ---------- cut here ----------- >> #!/bin/bash >> >> # fetch Kapadia_Desc.Cat.Govt.Colls.MSS.BORI-Jaina >> # Literature and Philosophy XIX.1 Svetambara Works_1957 >> >> for i in {00000001..397..1} >> do >> wget >> http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/data/upload/0048/903/PTIFF/$i.tif >> done >> ---------- cut here ----------- >> >> The magic number "371" is the number of pages in the book, which DLI tells >> you. In Firefox, you can find out the directory in which a book's TIFF >> files live by loading a page of the book and then hitting Tools/Page Info >> and selecting "media". >> >> Bash is the default shell in Linux; it's also available to Windows users >> by installing the excellent Cygwin. >> >> Best, >> Dominik >> >> From ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU Wed May 19 11:32:31 2010 From: ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Paul G. Hackett) Date: Wed, 19 May 10 07:32:31 -0400 Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] OCR for Romanized Sanskrit with Diacritics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089632.23782.8275732768012626613.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1370 Lines: 37 At 6:32 PM +0200 5/18/10, Kellner, Birgit wrote: > >ABBYY finereader, though not cheap, is the best product I know >(http://www.abbyy.com/). I use it regularly to produce searchable >PDFs from scanned secondary literature, with the text underlying the >image (this can also be done with Acrobat, but ABBYY is more >accurate). I would agree with Birgit on this point. I have had great succes with ABBYY working with diacritic characters and, most recently, with Devanagari -- see: http://www.columbia.edu/~ph2046/RnD/Hackett/SktComp.html Eventually, it is my hope to make both my diacritic & Devanagari recognition files for ABBYY freely available for others to use. also, at 10:59 AM +0200 5/19/10, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >I did some simple tests this morning, and I was startled at how bad the >results were. I scanned a page of a Brill book on indology at 300dpi. ... >After selecting and copying all the text from the resulting PDFs, and >examining them in a plain-text editor (UTF8-aware), the results were >dreadful. Many, many errors, and certainly no diacritcal marks. Part of the problem with the poor results that you experienced is certainly due to the fact that you were working with 300 dpi scans. This is too low of a resolution for OCR. You need a minimum of 400 dpi for decent OCR accuracy. Best, Paul Hackett Columbia University From ebashir at UCHICAGO.EDU Wed May 19 14:02:07 2010 From: ebashir at UCHICAGO.EDU (Elena Bashir) Date: Wed, 19 May 10 09:02:07 -0500 Subject: order of letters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089641.23782.11253532460254609616.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1686 Lines: 40 This would seem to be an important issue for electronic dictionaries - in connection sorting and searching. On 5/19/2010 8:38 AM, Herman Tull wrote: > I am putting together some simple rules for first year students. In > dealing with the order of the letters, there is the ever present > confusion over the placement of anusvAra and visarga. I notice that > Monier Williams and Macdonell are consistent in their placement of the > anusvara (placing it after the vowels when it precedes the semi-vowels > or the sibilants). But, they seem not to agree on the placement of > the visarga. Macdonell follows the rule that he states in his student > grammar (p. 3), that the visarga follows the vowels when it precedes > "k" and "p" and that it when it precedes a sibilant it is placed in > the consonantal order of the sibilants. E.g., on p. 17 of his > dictionary he has an article for antaH-ka... and then on p. 18 he has > the article for antaH-sa... > > Monier-Williams, on the other hand, combines this all into one article > (p. 43, "antaH"), and so does not distinguish between visarga before > "k" and "p" on the one hand, and before the sibilants on the other, > treating all of it as if it precedes "antar" (which seems incorrect, > since antaH-sa would not precede antar according to the rule). > > A small matter (especially with the advent of the electronic > dictionary), perhaps, but can anyone shed light on this? > > Herman Tull -- E. Bashir, Ph.D., Senior Lecturer in Urdu Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations The University of Chicago, Foster 212 1130 E. 59th St. Chicago, IL 60637 Phone: 773-702-8632 Fax: 773-834-3254 From hwtull at MSN.COM Wed May 19 13:38:36 2010 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Wed, 19 May 10 09:38:36 -0400 Subject: order of letters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089638.23782.18214756087941650514.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1274 Lines: 25 I am putting together some simple rules for first year students. In dealing with the order of the letters, there is the ever present confusion over the placement of anusvAra and visarga. I notice that Monier Williams and Macdonell are consistent in their placement of the anusvara (placing it after the vowels when it precedes the semi-vowels or the sibilants). But, they seem not to agree on the placement of the visarga. Macdonell follows the rule that he states in his student grammar (p. 3), that the visarga follows the vowels when it precedes "k" and "p" and that it when it precedes a sibilant it is placed in the consonantal order of the sibilants. E.g., on p. 17 of his dictionary he has an article for antaH-ka... and then on p. 18 he has the article for antaH-sa... Monier-Williams, on the other hand, combines this all into one article (p. 43, "antaH"), and so does not distinguish between visarga before "k" and "p" on the one hand, and before the sibilants on the other, treating all of it as if it precedes "antar" (which seems incorrect, since antaH-sa would not precede antar according to the rule). A small matter (especially with the advent of the electronic dictionary), perhaps, but can anyone shed light on this? Herman Tull From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed May 19 08:59:55 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 19 May 10 10:59:55 +0200 Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] OCR for Romanized Sanskrit with Diacritics In-Reply-To: <1ED2F08480CEB74FB91BD2BC070F8E013766904BEB@MBX02.ad.uni-heidelberg.de> Message-ID: <161227089620.23782.13937209579798531367.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1726 Lines: 45 On 18 May 2010 18:32, Kellner, Birgit wrote: > > I am wondering whether Acrobat recognizes diacritics like ?, ?, ? or ? and > properly selects the fitting Unicode letters. I've never tried - does it, > Dominik? > > Best, > > Birgit > I did some simple tests this morning, and I was startled at how bad the results were. I scanned a page of a Brill book on indology at 300dpi. I then ran the resulting jpeg through the ORC of Acrobat 9, using both "exact image" and "Clearscan". (The latter creates vector fonts on the fly, matching the look of the fonts in the document. Very clever.) After selecting and copying all the text from the resulting PDFs, and examining them in a plain-text editor (UTF8-aware), the results were dreadful. Many, many errors, and certainly no diacritcal marks. So my earlier impression that current off-the-shelf OCR was mature in recognising accented characters was completely wrong. And I was rather shocked at how bad the OCR was even for non-accented text. Acrobat 9 is quite a complicated product, and it is possible that there are settings I am not aware of that could improve the OCR. I had a quick search through the Preferences to see if one could set character sets for the OCR, but I couldn't find anything relevant. The basic OCR menu contains a single language setting, which I had set appropriately. I think my "residual memory" of OCR being good on diacritics was a mis-remembering based on the scenario that when I copy and paste text from the PDFs produced by my TeX system, as I occasionally do, all the diacritics are correct, and properly coded in UTF8. I'm using XeLaTeX (with the xunicode package). Best, Dominik From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Wed May 19 15:26:12 2010 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Wed, 19 May 10 11:26:12 -0400 Subject: FW: [INDOLOGY] order of letters In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D713E319AE64@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227089646.23782.2141920618294240133.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2664 Lines: 52 Dear Colleagues, Even the great Panini did not include the sounds (anusv?ra, visarga, jihv?m?l?ya, upadhm?n?ya and the so-called yamas) in his ?ivas?tras. They are called ayogav?ha sounds. The tradition incorporates them in two places in the ?ivas?tras (so that they can be included in the two separate praty?h?ras: a? and ?al). The jihv?m?l?ya and upadhm?n?ya are lost in most common writing forms, and are expressly lost in some Vedic schools like the M?dhyandina Yajurveda. The two surviving sounds, the anusv?ra and visarga are conventionally accommodated at the end of vowels and represented as a? and a?. This lack of a fixed location for these sounds has created a free-for-all pattern in modern dictionaries. Madhav M. Deshpande ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Elena Bashir [ebashir at UCHICAGO.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 10:02 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] order of letters This would seem to be an important issue for electronic dictionaries - in connection sorting and searching. On 5/19/2010 8:38 AM, Herman Tull wrote: > I am putting together some simple rules for first year students. In > dealing with the order of the letters, there is the ever present > confusion over the placement of anusvAra and visarga. I notice that > Monier Williams and Macdonell are consistent in their placement of the > anusvara (placing it after the vowels when it precedes the semi-vowels > or the sibilants). But, they seem not to agree on the placement of > the visarga. Macdonell follows the rule that he states in his student > grammar (p. 3), that the visarga follows the vowels when it precedes > "k" and "p" and that it when it precedes a sibilant it is placed in > the consonantal order of the sibilants. E.g., on p. 17 of his > dictionary he has an article for antaH-ka... and then on p. 18 he has > the article for antaH-sa... > > Monier-Williams, on the other hand, combines this all into one article > (p. 43, "antaH"), and so does not distinguish between visarga before > "k" and "p" on the one hand, and before the sibilants on the other, > treating all of it as if it precedes "antar" (which seems incorrect, > since antaH-sa would not precede antar according to the rule). > > A small matter (especially with the advent of the electronic > dictionary), perhaps, but can anyone shed light on this? > > Herman Tull -- E. Bashir, Ph.D., Senior Lecturer in Urdu Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations The University of Chicago, Foster 212 1130 E. 59th St. Chicago, IL 60637 Phone: 773-702-8632 Fax: 773-834-3254 From kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Wed May 19 09:44:26 2010 From: kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Birgit Kellner) Date: Wed, 19 May 10 11:44:26 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Workshop "Modern Formalisms for Pre-Modern Indian Logic and Epistemology" Message-ID: <161227089622.23782.16550663801705111677.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3039 Lines: 66 Dear fellow list-members, find attached the announcement of a workshop at the University of Hamburg, June 4-6, 2010. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Workshop "Modern Formalisms for Pre-Modern Indian Logic and Epistemology" Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 09:58:08 +0200 From: Marie-H?l?ne Gorisse Reply-To: Indology Committee To: INDOLOGYCOMMITTEE at liverpool.ac.uk Dear members of the Indology list, I am really please to announce the following workshop: *Modern Formalisms for Pre-Modern Indian Logic and Epistemology* to be held in Hamburg (Germany) from the 4th to the 6th of June 2010 Please find below a descriptive of the project and at the following adress schedule and abstracts of the talks: *http://www.math.uni-hamburg.de/home/loewe/MoFPILE/* Hoping to meet you there, Best regards, Marie-H?l?ne Gorisse Phd-student on Jain philosophy and philosophy of logic University of Lille (France) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ /Modern Formalisms for Pre-Modern Indian Logic and Epistemology/ The Indian traditions of logic and epistemology do not fit into the deductive paradigm of mathematical logic which forms the foundations of a large part of current philosophical logic. Instead, intersubjectivity and interaction play an important role in it. In this respect, they are similar to large parts of the Western medieval and early modern logic traditions (e.g., the /obligationes/ or the /Logique de Port Royal/). In the past decades, logicians focused on the interactive paradigm and investigated logics of knowledge, belief and communication. These logics have been successfully used in the formalization of Western medieval texts. We expect that similar successes are possible in the field of Indian logic and epistemology. Our workshop will be an encounter between the two relevant research communities. /Die indischen Traditionen der Logik und Erkenntnistheorie f?gen sich nicht dem deduktiven Paradigma der mathematischen Logik, welches dem Gro?teil der zeitgen?ssischen philosophischen Logik zugrundeliegt. Stattdessen spielen Intersubjektivit?t und Interaktion eine gro?e Rolle. In dieser Hinsicht ?hneln sie vielen Teilen der westlichen mittelalterlichen und fr?hneuzeitlichen Logik (z.B. die //obligationes-Tradition oder die //Logique de Port Royal)/. /In den letzten Jahrzehnten haben Logiker sich st?rker dem interaktiven Paradigma zugewandt und Logiken des Wissens, des Glaubens, und der Kommunikation untersucht. Diese Logiken sind sind erfolgreich bei der Formalisierung westlicher mittelalterlicher Texte eingesetzt worden und es ist zu erwarten, dass ?hnliche Erfolge auch im Bereich der indischen Logik und Erkenntnistheorie m?glich sind. Unser Workshop wird eine Ann?herung der beiden beteiligten Forschungsgemeinschaften sein. / From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Wed May 19 18:56:14 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 19 May 10 11:56:14 -0700 Subject: order of letters Message-ID: <161227089656.23782.7581249423322841507.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1586 Lines: 10 The chart of sounds called the M?he?varasutras that will be found at the beginning of P??ini?s grammar is no paradigmatic structure of Sanskrit or NIA phonemes. The Rik-Pr?ti??khya is more systematic and is followed even in the alphabet charts for children in most of the NIA primers. Its arrangement and logic is clear and may be taken as an authentic chart of the original sounds. There are four blocks of consonants. In the first block of five series of what the grammarians call spar?as, the series - velar, palatal, retroflex, dental and labial - are arranged according to the place of articulation and the individual consonants in each series according to what the grammarians call prayatna ?effort?. The non-spar?a anta?sthas (semivowels and liquids) y,r,l,v follow the first block. They too are arranged according to their place of articulation. So are the sibilants h, ?, ? and s forming the third block. The spirants ?, the jihv?m?l?ya, the upadhm?n?ya form the fourth block. They too are arranged according to their place of articulation. The anusv?ra that has both vocalic and consonantal character stands alone without a place of utterance. ?The logic behind keeping the spirants apart is most probably their inability to form an ak?ara with a following vowel. In normal Sanskrit the ? too does not form an ak?ara with its following vowel. But improvised words like ya?i in P??ini?s grammar shows the theoretical possibility to form such a syllable. This becomes a living reality in some NIA languages. But this is not possible with ?, ? or ? even in NIA. Best DB From hwtull at MSN.COM Wed May 19 16:47:22 2010 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Wed, 19 May 10 12:47:22 -0400 Subject: FW: [INDOLOGY] order of letters In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D713E319AE65@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227089651.23782.9624440690024913718.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3125 Lines: 74 Dear Prof. Deshpande: Thank you for this information; it is extremely helpful. Most modern grammars simply ignore this. Herman Tull -------------------------------------------------- From: "Deshpande, Madhav" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 11:26 AM To: Subject: [INDOLOGY] FW: [INDOLOGY] order of letters > Dear Colleagues, > > Even the great Panini did not include the sounds (anusv?ra, visarga, > jihv?m?l?ya, upadhm?n?ya and the so-called yamas) in his ?ivas?tras. They > are called ayogav?ha sounds. The tradition incorporates them in two > places in the ?ivas?tras (so that they can be included in the two separate > praty?h?ras: a? and ?al). The jihv?m?l?ya and upadhm?n?ya are lost in > most common writing forms, and are expressly lost in some Vedic schools > like the M?dhyandina Yajurveda. The two surviving sounds, the anusv?ra > and visarga are conventionally accommodated at the end of vowels and > represented as a? and a?. This lack of a fixed location for these sounds > has created a free-for-all pattern in modern dictionaries. > > Madhav M. Deshpande > > ________________________________________ > From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Elena Bashir > [ebashir at UCHICAGO.EDU] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 10:02 AM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] order of letters > > This would seem to be an important issue for electronic dictionaries - > in connection sorting and searching. > > > On 5/19/2010 8:38 AM, Herman Tull wrote: >> I am putting together some simple rules for first year students. In >> dealing with the order of the letters, there is the ever present >> confusion over the placement of anusvAra and visarga. I notice that >> Monier Williams and Macdonell are consistent in their placement of the >> anusvara (placing it after the vowels when it precedes the semi-vowels >> or the sibilants). But, they seem not to agree on the placement of >> the visarga. Macdonell follows the rule that he states in his student >> grammar (p. 3), that the visarga follows the vowels when it precedes >> "k" and "p" and that it when it precedes a sibilant it is placed in >> the consonantal order of the sibilants. E.g., on p. 17 of his >> dictionary he has an article for antaH-ka... and then on p. 18 he has >> the article for antaH-sa... >> >> Monier-Williams, on the other hand, combines this all into one article >> (p. 43, "antaH"), and so does not distinguish between visarga before >> "k" and "p" on the one hand, and before the sibilants on the other, >> treating all of it as if it precedes "antar" (which seems incorrect, >> since antaH-sa would not precede antar according to the rule). >> >> A small matter (especially with the advent of the electronic >> dictionary), perhaps, but can anyone shed light on this? >> >> Herman Tull > > -- > E. Bashir, Ph.D., Senior Lecturer in Urdu > Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations > The University of Chicago, Foster 212 > 1130 E. 59th St. > Chicago, IL 60637 > Phone: 773-702-8632 > Fax: 773-834-3254 > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed May 19 10:49:35 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 19 May 10 12:49:35 +0200 Subject: wget (was: Re: Abhandlungen der K=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=B6nigliche?= n Ak ademie der Wissensch aften zu Berli) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089624.23782.14348255353471372622.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2069 Lines: 63 I was recently trying to help a colleague with the bash script below for fetching entire books from the Digital Library of India. He had Windows, so we installed CygWin, in order to get bash and wget. However, the script wouldn't work. I finally discovered that the essential syntax I'm using below, "for i in {X..Y..Z}", works with bash version 4, but not earlier. And CygWin's bash is still at version 3 (so in MinGW's). When I type "bash --version", I get this: $ bash --version > GNU bash, version 4.1.5(1)-release (i486-pc-linux-gnu) > Copyright (C) 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc. > License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later < > http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html> > Sorry, Windows users, it looks like you'll have to wait until bash 4 gets into CygWin or MinGW. Best, Dominik 2010/1/14 Dominik Wujastyk > Birgit is quite right about the value of wget. It's an amazing little > tool. I use it routinely to get books from the Digital Library of India, > where texts are presented only as individual pages. > > Until about a year ago, one could use the "-r" recursion setting of wget > to fetch a whole directory-full of files in one go. Then the DLI disabled > that feature. So now one has to issue a wget command for each page. > But it's easy to do with a small bash script like this: > > ---------- cut here ----------- > #!/bin/bash > > # fetch Kapadia_Desc.Cat.Govt.Colls.MSS.BORI-Jaina > # Literature and Philosophy XIX.1 Svetambara Works_1957 > > for i in {00000001..397..1} > do > wget > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/data/upload/0048/903/PTIFF/$i.tif > done > ---------- cut here ----------- > > The magic number "371" is the number of pages in the book, which DLI tells > you. In Firefox, you can find out the directory in which a book's TIFF > files live by loading a page of the book and then hitting Tools/Page Info > and selecting "media". > > Bash is the default shell in Linux; it's also available to Windows users > by installing the excellent Cygwin. > > Best, > Dominik > > From thomaskintaert at GMAIL.COM Wed May 19 11:50:26 2010 From: thomaskintaert at GMAIL.COM (Thomas Kintaert) Date: Wed, 19 May 10 12:50:26 +0100 Subject: Help with keyboard Message-ID: <161227089636.23782.4250955339285567354.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1475 Lines: 29 Although I don't use Windows 7 myself, its "Windows XP Mode" might also be of help. It is available as a free download, however only for owners of the Professional, Ultimate or Enterprise edition of Windows 7. See http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/products/features/windows-xp- mode and http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/reviews/2010/01/windows-xp-mode.ars Here is some more information including further requirements: "Microsoft is using its Virtual PC technology to allow Windows 7 users to run programs that work in Windows XP but not in Windows Vista. [...] XP Mode needs a beefier system than that required to just run Windows 7 or XP alone, including at least 2GB of memory and a system that has chip-level virtualization from either Intel or AMD." [...] At its core, XP mode consists of two things, the Windows Virtual PC engine and a licensed copy of Windows XP Service Pack 3 as a packaged virtual machine. [...] One of the benefits of XP Mode over Microsoft's existing virtualization products is the fact that, after a setup process, the Windows XP virtual machine runs in the background so users don't have to manage multiple desktops. [...] Woodgate noted that XP Mode isn't a security solution. Indeed, to protect their systems, users will need antivirus software running both on their Windows 7 desktop as well as a copy running inside their Windows XP virtual machine." (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10229125-56.html) Thomas From kengo.harimoto at UNI-HAMBURG.DE Wed May 19 11:11:42 2010 From: kengo.harimoto at UNI-HAMBURG.DE (Kengo Harimoto) Date: Wed, 19 May 10 13:11:42 +0200 Subject: wget (was: Re: Abhandlungen der K=?iso-8859-15?Q?=F6nigliche?= n Ak ademie der Wissensch aften zu B erli) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089627.23782.10892649305048451303.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2565 Lines: 78 Why not C-like syntax: for ((i = 1; i <= 397; i++)) do ? bash 3 (default on OS X) accepts this syntax. It works even when bash called as sh. The ksh, too, has that syntax; I wouldn't be surprised if the original bourne shell had it. I personally use a perl script calling several instances of curl at the same time. All the best, -- kengo harimoto On May 19, 2010, at 12:49 , Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > I was recently trying to help a colleague with the bash script below for > fetching entire books from the Digital Library of India. He had Windows, so > we installed CygWin, in order to get bash and wget. However, the script > wouldn't work. > > I finally discovered that the essential syntax I'm using below, "for i in > {X..Y..Z}", works with bash version 4, but not earlier. And CygWin's bash > is still at version 3 (so in MinGW's). > > When I type "bash --version", I get this: > > $ bash --version >> GNU bash, version 4.1.5(1)-release (i486-pc-linux-gnu) >> Copyright (C) 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc. >> License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later < >> http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html> >> > > Sorry, Windows users, it looks like you'll have to wait until bash 4 gets > into CygWin or MinGW. > > Best, > Dominik > > 2010/1/14 Dominik Wujastyk > >> Birgit is quite right about the value of wget. It's an amazing little >> tool. I use it routinely to get books from the Digital Library of India, >> where texts are presented only as individual pages. >> >> Until about a year ago, one could use the "-r" recursion setting of wget >> to fetch a whole directory-full of files in one go. Then the DLI disabled >> that feature. So now one has to issue a wget command for each page. >> But it's easy to do with a small bash script like this: >> >> ---------- cut here ----------- >> #!/bin/bash >> >> # fetch Kapadia_Desc.Cat.Govt.Colls.MSS.BORI-Jaina >> # Literature and Philosophy XIX.1 Svetambara Works_1957 >> >> for i in {00000001..397..1} >> do >> wget >> http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/data/upload/0048/903/PTIFF/$i.tif >> done >> ---------- cut here ----------- >> >> The magic number "371" is the number of pages in the book, which DLI tells >> you. In Firefox, you can find out the directory in which a book's TIFF >> files live by loading a page of the book and then hitting Tools/Page Info >> and selecting "media". >> >> Bash is the default shell in Linux; it's also available to Windows users >> by installing the excellent Cygwin. >> >> Best, >> Dominik >> >> From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed May 19 11:48:48 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 19 May 10 13:48:48 +0200 Subject: wget (was: Re: Abhandlungen der K=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=B6ni?= gliche n Ak ademie der Wissensch aften zu Berli) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089634.23782.583087837213821176.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3042 Lines: 103 The whole difficulty is to get the right number of leading zeros in the tif filenames (e.g., "00000001.tiff" .. "00009999.tiff"). Your solution doesn't do this. D 2010/5/19 amba kulkarni > With bash version 3.1.17 > > GNU bash, version 3.1.17(1)-release (i586-suse-linux-gnu) > Copyright (C) 2005 Free Software Foundation, Inc. > > for i in {X..Y} works incrementing i by 1 each time. > So you may try it on CygWin's bash. > > -- amba kulkarni > > ? ?? ?????: ?????? ????? ??????: ll > Let noble thoughts come to us from every side. > - Rig Veda, I-89-i. > > Reader and Head > Department of Sanskrit Studies > University of Hyderabad > 040 23133802(off) > > http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in > > > 2010/5/19 Dominik Wujastyk > > I was recently trying to help a colleague with the bash script below for >> fetching entire books from the Digital Library of India. He had Windows, >> so >> we installed CygWin, in order to get bash and wget. However, the script >> wouldn't work. >> >> I finally discovered that the essential syntax I'm using below, "for i in >> {X..Y..Z}", works with bash version 4, but not earlier. And CygWin's bash >> is still at version 3 (so in MinGW's). >> >> When I type "bash --version", I get this: >> >> $ bash --version >> > GNU bash, version 4.1.5(1)-release (i486-pc-linux-gnu) >> > Copyright (C) 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc. >> > License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later < >> > http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html> >> > >> >> Sorry, Windows users, it looks like you'll have to wait until bash 4 gets >> into CygWin or MinGW. >> >> Best, >> Dominik >> >> 2010/1/14 Dominik Wujastyk >> >> > Birgit is quite right about the value of wget. It's an amazing little >> > tool. I use it routinely to get books from the Digital Library of >> India, >> > where texts are presented only as individual pages. >> > >> > Until about a year ago, one could use the "-r" recursion setting of wget >> > to fetch a whole directory-full of files in one go. Then the DLI >> disabled >> > that feature. So now one has to issue a wget command for each page. >> > But it's easy to do with a small bash script like this: >> > >> > ---------- cut here ----------- >> > #!/bin/bash >> > >> > # fetch Kapadia_Desc.Cat.Govt.Colls.MSS.BORI-Jaina >> > # Literature and Philosophy XIX.1 Svetambara Works_1957 >> > >> > for i in {00000001..397..1} >> > do >> > wget >> > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/data/upload/0048/903/PTIFF/$i.tif >> > done >> > ---------- cut here ----------- >> > >> > The magic number "371" is the number of pages in the book, which DLI >> tells >> > you. In Firefox, you can find out the directory in which a book's TIFF >> > files live by loading a page of the book and then hitting Tools/Page >> Info >> > and selecting "media". >> > >> > Bash is the default shell in Linux; it's also available to Windows users >> > by installing the excellent Cygwin. >> > >> > Best, >> > Dominik >> > >> > >> > > From James_Fitzgerald at BROWN.EDU Wed May 19 18:47:15 2010 From: James_Fitzgerald at BROWN.EDU (Fitzgerald, James) Date: Wed, 19 May 10 14:47:15 -0400 Subject: wget (was: Re: Ab handlungen der K=?utf-8?Q?=C3=B6ni?= gliche n Ak ademie der Wissensch aften zu B erli) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089653.23782.17758778877186909238.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4015 Lines: 98 Except for grep I don't use cygwin much at all these days and have never heard of "curl" before now. For what it may be worth (NOT a one-line solution, and evidently superceded), the last time I tried to download anything from the DLI I used the technique described below in a note I wrote for a student. The "575" in the third script was determined by manual inspection of the files on the DLI ahead of tiime. Later attempts to download other books from the DLI consistently failed to display even one page in the browser, so I gave up on it completely. I'm glad to hear it's up and "running" again. Regards, Jim Fitzgerald +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Be in the directory where you want the files to end up. Prepend c:\cygwin\wget to the Dos PATH variable These commands can only be run in sets in which the "width" [=number of decimal places] of the variable are the same [1,2, or 3, or more] Consequently, must run the command once for the first 9, once for 10-99, then once for 100-999. The "set" construct [following the "in"] must be altered for each decimal place in the page-number variable; remember to change the number of places in the filename-string for the size of the %P variable. The URL in the examples below were for vol. 1 of the 1997 Pandurang edition of the Srimad Bhagavatam for /L %P in (1,1,9) do wget http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/data/upload/0030/525/PTIFF/0000000%P.tif for /L %P in (10,1,99) do wget http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/data/upload/0030/525/PTIFF/000000%P.tif for /L %P in (100,1,575) do wget http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/data/upload/0030/525/PTIFF/00000%P.tif This is the URL that shows up in the browser address bar: http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/scripts/FullindexDefault.htm?path1=/data/upload/0030/526&first=1&last=526&barcode=1010010030521 Eliminate the "Fullindex..." string. snip that to /data. . . cut everything after 526 & append /PTIFF/[filenumber starting from 00000001].tif But NB, above URL formula is NOT universal. http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/rawdataupload/upload/0095/766/PTIFF/00000012.tif +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > -----Original Message----- > From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of > Dominik Wujastyk > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 12:06 PM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] wget (was: Re: Abhandlungen der K?ni > gliche n Ak ademie der Wissensch aften zu Berli) > > Thank you Patrick! That's the best yet, I think. curl is > new to me. I've just checked CygWin, though, and it is > indeed included there. Could be the best answer for everyone. > > Best, > Dominik > > 2010/5/19 patrick mc allister > > > * Dominik Wujastyk [2010-05-19 13:49]: > > > The whole difficulty is to get the right number of > leading zeros in > > > the > > tif > > > filenames (e.g., "00000001.tiff" .. "00009999.tiff"). > Your solution > > doesn't > > > do this. > > > > > > > A one line solution is to use curl (using v. 7.20.1 in my case) > > itself, saving the files under "img-NUMBER.tif": > > > > curl > > > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/data/upload/0048/903/PTIFF/[00000001-397]. > > tif-o img-#1.tif > > > > or, to see that the padding of the leading zeros works: > > > > curl > > > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/data/upload/0048/903/PTIFF/[00000099-101]. > > tif-o img-#1.tif > > > > I'm not sure if curl is included in cygwin, though. > > > > -- > > patrick mc allister > > > > long term email: pma at rdorte.org > > current office email: patrick.mcallister at univie.ac.at > > homepage: http://homepage.univie.ac.at/patrick.mcallister/ > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) > > > > iEYEARECAAYFAkvz9fAACgkQN5RlYmr8acRqvwCeLCYfJfDSDrV8bXZLHCj4tJYA > > QcEAnRAs8TgKR4lg3E96Um5??? > > =jU9v > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > From patrick.mcallister at UNIVIE.AC.AT Wed May 19 14:31:57 2010 From: patrick.mcallister at UNIVIE.AC.AT (patrick mc allister) Date: Wed, 19 May 10 16:31:57 +0200 Subject: wget (was: Re: Ab handlungen der K=?utf-8?Q?=C3=B6n?= i gliche n Ak ademie der Wissensch aften zu Berli) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089644.23782.16517777837670381855.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 826 Lines: 26 * Dominik Wujastyk [2010-05-19 13:49]: > The whole difficulty is to get the right number of leading zeros in the tif > filenames (e.g., "00000001.tiff" .. "00009999.tiff"). Your solution doesn't > do this. > A one line solution is to use curl (using v. 7.20.1 in my case) itself, saving the files under "img-NUMBER.tif": curl http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/data/upload/0048/903/PTIFF/[00000001-397].tif -o img-#1.tif or, to see that the padding of the leading zeros works: curl http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/data/upload/0048/903/PTIFF/[00000099-101].tif -o img-#1.tif I'm not sure if curl is included in cygwin, though. -- patrick mc allister long term email: pma at rdorte.org current office email: patrick.mcallister at univie.ac.at homepage: http://homepage.univie.ac.at/patrick.mcallister/ From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed May 19 16:05:40 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 19 May 10 18:05:40 +0200 Subject: wget (was: Re: Abhandlungen der K=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=B6ni?= gliche n Ak ademie der Wissensch aften zu Berli) In-Reply-To: <20100519143008.GB6807@pmatoe.oeaw.ads> Message-ID: <161227089648.23782.2314674456153684398.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1342 Lines: 49 Thank you Patrick! That's the best yet, I think. curl is new to me. I've just checked CygWin, though, and it is indeed included there. Could be the best answer for everyone. Best, Dominik 2010/5/19 patrick mc allister > * Dominik Wujastyk [2010-05-19 13:49]: > > The whole difficulty is to get the right number of leading zeros in the > tif > > filenames (e.g., "00000001.tiff" .. "00009999.tiff"). Your solution > doesn't > > do this. > > > > A one line solution is to use curl (using v. 7.20.1 in my case) > itself, saving the files under "img-NUMBER.tif": > > curl > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/data/upload/0048/903/PTIFF/[00000001-397].tif-o img-#1.tif > > or, to see that the padding of the leading zeros works: > > curl > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/data/upload/0048/903/PTIFF/[00000099-101].tif-o img-#1.tif > > I'm not sure if curl is included in cygwin, though. > > -- > patrick mc allister > > long term email: pma at rdorte.org > current office email: patrick.mcallister at univie.ac.at > homepage: http://homepage.univie.ac.at/patrick.mcallister/ > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAkvz9fAACgkQN5RlYmr8acRqvwCeLCYfJfDSDrV8bXZLHCj4tJYA > QcEAnRAs8TgKR4lg3E96Um5??? > =jU9v > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Wed May 19 22:45:40 2010 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Wed, 19 May 10 18:45:40 -0400 Subject: Accessing Journal Asiatique? Message-ID: <161227089659.23782.17673070743758649396.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 161 Lines: 7 Does anyone know of a website that allows downloading individual articles from Journal Asiatique? Any help will be appreciated. Best, Madhav M. Deshpande From Gerard.Huet at INRIA.FR Wed May 19 22:48:57 2010 From: Gerard.Huet at INRIA.FR (=?utf-8?Q?G=C3=A9rard_Huet?=) Date: Thu, 20 May 10 00:48:57 +0200 Subject: order of letters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089661.23782.10922411740676018753.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3869 Lines: 79 Dear Pr Tull, This matter is one of those small problems which create lots of headaches for the proper design of computer-processing tools for Sanskrit. One wants to avoid encoding redundancies, in order to keep overgeneration low, while preserving completeness. Also clear consistent rules must be applied concerning lexicographic ordering in computerized lexicons. Here is what I do at present. I normalize non-genuine anusvAra to the nasal homophonic to the following nasal. Both in the parsed input and in the inflected forms databanks. Remark that the inverse normalization would be incorrect, since we want to keep forms of root sa~nj and not turn them to *sa.mj. Until recently I applied a similar normalization to visarga. When it is followed by a sibilant, I would replace it by the same sibilant. Thus e.g. a.hsu would normalize to assu. Similarly to the anusvaara treatment, such visarga would appear in the alphabetical order of the corresponding sibilant, and only visarga preceding "k" and "p" would be preserved, and be listed just before the consonants. But recently I noticed an improper side-effect of this normalization, in an example such as: api tvam adya prAtaH svasuH g.rham agacchaH since normalizing input prAtaHsvasuH to prAtassvasuH would prevent its parsing. Here prAtaH must be preserved, in order for sandhiviccheda to find the proper solution with prAtar. Because of this, I now treat all visargas in the same way, and I do not replace them before sibilants. Another place where a similar problem occurs is that words ending in "r" such as prAtar, antar, punar, catur but also all the verbal forms in -ur must be stored intact in the forms databanks, and terminal sandhi should not be used. This is needed to parse chunks such as punarapi, since puna.h+api would yield *puno'pi. This difficulty is discussed nowhere I know of, and pandits protest at my listing punar rather than puna.h in tables. Many other mundane problems arise with avagraha, with marking hiatus in words such as pra-ucya or pra-uga, etc. Another problem which seems to be below the threshold of interest for most linguists is the optional gemination/degemination: forms such as karmma, kiirttyate, vAggmI which are indeed Paninian (the last one using the very ad-hoc 5.2.124 sUtra), but also forms such as chatra, chAtra, patrikA, vArtA, satra, satva, which may not be Paninian, but which occur in corpus nonetheless. Regards G. Huet Le 19 mai 10 ? 15:38, Herman Tull a ?crit : > I am putting together some simple rules for first year students. In > dealing with the order of the letters, there is the ever present > confusion over the placement of anusvAra and visarga. I notice that > Monier Williams and Macdonell are consistent in their placement of > the anusvara (placing it after the vowels when it precedes the semi- > vowels or the sibilants). But, they seem not to agree on the > placement of the visarga. Macdonell follows the rule that he states > in his student grammar (p. 3), that the visarga follows the vowels > when it precedes "k" and "p" and that it when it precedes a sibilant > it is placed in the consonantal order of the sibilants. E.g., on p. > 17 of his dictionary he has an article for antaH-ka... and then on > p. 18 he has the article for antaH-sa... > > Monier-Williams, on the other hand, combines this all into one > article (p. 43, "antaH"), and so does not distinguish between > visarga before "k" and "p" on the one hand, and before the sibilants > on the other, treating all of it as if it precedes "antar" (which > seems incorrect, since antaH-sa would not precede antar according to > the rule). > > A small matter (especially with the advent of the electronic > dictionary), perhaps, but can anyone shed light on this? > > Herman Tull From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Wed May 19 23:12:15 2010 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Thu, 20 May 10 01:12:15 +0200 Subject: Accessing Journal Asiatique? In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D713E319AE69@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227089664.23782.12059125180457187372.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 961 Lines: 27 Am 20.05.2010 um 00:45 schrieb Deshpande, Madhav: > Does anyone know of a website that allows downloading individual articles from Journal Asiatique? Any help will be appreciated. Best, Concerning current volumes: the online edition is distributed by the Belgian publisher Peeters URL: One needs a subscription, of course, to get the articles. Older volumes can be fetched completely from the Biblioth?que Nationale (covering 1822 to 1938) URL: or, more specific, URL: Some volumes, maybe not all from those in the public domain, are also available from Google Books, try URL: Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Thu May 20 07:04:41 2010 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Thu, 20 May 10 09:04:41 +0200 Subject: Publication Announcement Message-ID: <161227089669.23782.5402847899001503965.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1188 Lines: 26 Hermann Jacobi, Die Entwicklung der Gottesidee bei den Indern und deren Beweise f?r das Dasein Gottes. Hrsg. v. Andreas Pohlus. (Geisteskultur Indiens. 14. Klassiker der Indologie.) Aachen: Shaker 2010. pp. 234. ISBN 978-3-8322-9074-0 EUR 24,80 http://www.shaker-online.com/Online-Gesamtkatalog/Booklist.idc?ID=10314470&CC=42773&Reihe=275.0&ReiheUR=1.0 This re-edition of Jacobi's famous study presents the Sanskrit texts and their German translation on facing pages. A newly prepared index covers the names, subjects, technical terms and text-places referred to by Jacobi. It contains also an updated bibliography (50 pages) of selected works on the various "proofs of the existence of god" as furnished in India and the West. Kindly, WS ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG Thu May 20 01:08:01 2010 From: r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Thu, 20 May 10 13:08:01 +1200 Subject: Accessing Journal Asiatique? (Indica et Buddica - Tabulae) In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D713E319AE69@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227089666.23782.10540874741741665138.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1213 Lines: 51 Dear Mahdav, On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 06:45:40PM -0400, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: > Does anyone know of a website that allows downloading individual > articles from Journal Asiatique? Any help will be appreciated. For a while now I've been keeping a list of about 180 periodicals with material on Classical Indian and Buddhist Studies: Indica et Buddhica - Tabulae Tabulae: Tables of Contents for Indology and Buddhology http://tabulae.indica-et-buddhica.org/ Here is the site map: Tabulae - Site Map http://tabulae.indica-et-buddhica.org/site-map A few links to material on the Journal Asiatique can be found here: Tabulae - Journal Asiatique http://tabulae.indica-et-buddhica.org/periodica/j/journal-asiatique Kind regards, Richard P.S. This listing is incomplete so if anyone knows of material that isn't included please feel free to suggest it and I put up additonal pages. This form may be helpful: Tabulae - Suggest a New Periodical http://indica-et-buddhica.org/sections/tabulae/newjournal-form -- Richard MAHONEY Littledene, Bay Road, OXFORD 7430, NZ PO Box 25, OXFORD 7443 +64 3 312 1699 / +64 275 829 986 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org http://indica-et-buddhica.org From h.t.bakker at RUG.NL Thu May 20 14:19:01 2010 From: h.t.bakker at RUG.NL (hans bakker) Date: Thu, 20 May 10 16:19:01 +0200 Subject: ku=?UTF-8?Q?=E1=B9=ADik=C4=81?= Message-ID: <161227089671.23782.2159904201004067759.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1254 Lines: 47 > Dear All, > > in an old commentary (from a Buddhist context) of about the first > century AD, and probably of South Indian origin, i.e. in the > Andhaka??????hakath??, I have the statement that after burning a > corpse a hut (ku???ik??) is erected (kar??yati) for the ashes and the > bones. > > Does anybody know whether this is some general habit or perhaps a > local custom or perhaps restricted to a specific time. > > Any suggestions are welcome, > Petra > > *************************** > Dr. Petra Kieffer-P??lz > Wilhelm-K??lz-Str. 2 > 99423 Weimar > Germany > Tel. 03643/770447 > > email: > kiepue at t-online.de > petra.kieffer-puelz at adwmainz.de In some Gandharan reliefs discussed in: de Marco, G. (1987). T/he Stupa as a funerary monument. New iconographical evidence./ East and West, 37, 191?246, funerary monuments are depicted that are described as ` hut.' (p. 232). The matter is discussed again in my /Monuments to the Dead in Ancient North India /in Indo-Iranian Journal (2007) 50: 11?47, especially pp. 29f. -- Prof Dr Hans T. Bakker Institute of Indian Studies University of Groningen Oude Boteringestraat 23 9712 GC Groningen the Netherlands tel: +31.(0)50.363.5819 fax: +31.(0)50.363.7263 www.rug.nl/india From alangenberg at MSN.COM Fri May 21 17:24:09 2010 From: alangenberg at MSN.COM (Amy Langenberg) Date: Fri, 21 May 10 13:24:09 -0400 Subject: mejor article Message-ID: <161227089673.23782.11838629665278836696.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 365 Lines: 17 Dear Indologists, Would anyone be able to send me a pdf of the following article? I have not been able to locate a copy of it. Mejor, Marek. ?On K?emendra's Bodhisattv?vad?nakalpalat?.? Cracow Indological Studies. 1 (1995): 199-213. Thank you in advance! Amy Paris LangenbergVisiting Assistant ProfessorDepartment of ClassicsBrown University From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Sun May 23 13:44:17 2010 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Sun, 23 May 10 08:44:17 -0500 Subject: aratni Message-ID: <161227089677.23782.16699966672647125568.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 452 Lines: 8 Friends: here is a question. I am trying to get the measurement of the Sanskrit aratni. Both M-W and Bohtlingk gives the old measurement "ell" -- which is said to be 45 inches (1.14 meters). This surely cannot be if the measurement is from the elbow to the tip of the middle finger. Apte gives the measurement as 24 angulas (i.e., about 47 cms.). The latter is also the measurement given by Basham in his Wonder. Thanks for any comments. Patrick From emstern at VERIZON.NET Sun May 23 17:28:20 2010 From: emstern at VERIZON.NET (Elliot M. Stern) Date: Sun, 23 May 10 13:28:20 -0400 Subject: aratni In-Reply-To: <7110C220-F028-40A8-B70D-4AE58B1CADF5@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <161227089679.23782.11852304225628682816.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1308 Lines: 27 Patrick, Actually, Boehtlingk and Roth says "2) Elle, das Maass vom Ellbogen bis zur Spitze des kleinen Fingers", the shorter Boehtlingk says "2) Elle, die Entfernung vom Ellbogen bis zur Spitze des kleinen Fingers, = 2 Pr?de?a oder 24 A?gula", and Monier-Williams follows this in his definition "a cubit of the middle length, from the elbow to the tip of the little finger". These agree with Apte and Basham. The problem is that the usual term for this measure in English is cubit, while in English the 45 inch measure is an ell. In German , Elle may mean cubit, or ell (if the dictionary I consulted may be trusted). Elliot Elliot M. Stern 552 South 48th Street Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029 United States of America telephone: 215-747-6204 mobile: 267-240-8418 emstern at verizon.net On 23 May 2010, at 9:44 AM, Patrick Olivelle wrote: > Friends: here is a question. I am trying to get the measurement of the Sanskrit aratni. Both M-W and Bohtlingk gives the old measurement "ell" -- which is said to be 45 inches (1.14 meters). This surely cannot be if the measurement is from the elbow to the tip of the middle finger. Apte gives the measurement as 24 angulas (i.e., about 47 cms.). The latter is also the measurement given by Basham in his Wonder. > > Thanks for any comments. > > Patrick From mnstorm at MAC.COM Sun May 23 09:05:18 2010 From: mnstorm at MAC.COM (Mary Storm) Date: Sun, 23 May 10 14:35:18 +0530 Subject: Illustrated Manuscript of the Bodhicary=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81vat=C4=81?= ra Message-ID: <161227089675.23782.14223197632472887524.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 635 Lines: 23 Dear Indologists, Greetings from Delhi, where it is hot enough to melt a brass door knob. Benoytosh Bhattacharyya in The Indian Buddhist Iconography, second ed. 1958, refers to the existence of illustrated manuscripts of the Bodhicary?vat?ra (p. 5). Has anyone on this list seen such a text, and if so, do you know where it might be or where a copy might exist? Thanks so much! Mary Mary Storm, Ph.D. Academic Director and Lecturer India: National Identity and the Arts and Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture SIT Study Abroad http://www.sit.edu/studyabroad F 301 Lado Sarai New Delhi 110030 India Mobile: +91 98106 98003 From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Mon May 24 16:21:42 2010 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Mon, 24 May 10 11:21:42 -0500 Subject: Fwd: verse Message-ID: <161227089682.23782.4617412588978251450.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 159 Lines: 12 A friend is trying to trace this verse. Any ideas? Patrick > > ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ???????? ? ????????? ? > ?????? ???????, ???????????? ?? ??? ?? From athr at LOC.GOV Mon May 24 18:22:29 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Mon, 24 May 10 14:22:29 -0400 Subject: mejor article In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089686.23782.11481413029881353748.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 805 Lines: 27 I believe this volume is identical with "International Conference on Sanskrit and Related Studies : September 23-26, 1993." I have paged it from the stacks and if the article is there will send it to you. Allen -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Amy Langenberg Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 1:24 PM To: Thrasher, Allen; INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] mejor article Dear Indologists, Would anyone be able to send me a pdf of the following article? I have not been able to locate a copy of it. Mejor, Marek. ?On K?emendra's Bodhisattv?vad?nakalpalat?.? Cracow Indological Studies. 1 (1995): 199-213. Thank you in advance! Amy Paris LangenbergVisiting Assistant ProfessorDepartment of ClassicsBrown University From kiepue at T-ONLINE.DE Mon May 24 17:47:37 2010 From: kiepue at T-ONLINE.DE (=?utf-8?Q?petra_kieffer-P=C3=BClz?=) Date: Mon, 24 May 10 19:47:37 +0200 Subject: paraca.nka-maccha Message-ID: <161227089684.23782.14055077906564553676.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 354 Lines: 22 Dear All, Does anybody know what paraca.nka-fishes might be? They seem to be put into yaagu, but seem not to be counted as fish or meat in the strict sense. Best, Petra *************************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2 99423 Weimar Germany Tel. 03643/770447 email: kiepue at t-online.de petra.kieffer-puelz at adwmainz.de From axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE Tue May 25 06:47:50 2010 From: axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE (Axel Michaels) Date: Tue, 25 May 10 06:47:50 +0000 Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] aratni In-Reply-To: <7110C220-F028-40A8-B70D-4AE58B1CADF5@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <161227089689.23782.18385869577179103165.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1792 Lines: 29 Patrick, according to Baudh SulvS I.16 together with I.7 and I.3 one aratni would come to 45.7 cm given that the measurement for one angula is 3/4 inch. (c. 1.905 cm). This calculation is based on botanical consideration, i.e. 1 angula = 34 tila (sesam indicum) or 14 aNu (panicum miliaceum). According to my perhaps outdated view (see my Beweisverfahren in der vedischen Sakralgeometrie, 1978, pp. 156-7) the differences depend on whether the seeds are taken with or without husk and measured by breadth or length. Best wishes, Axel ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Axel Michaels Acting Director Excellence Cluster "Asia and Europe in a Global Context", Sprecher des SFB 619 ("Ritualdynamik") Universit?t Heidelberg, S?dasien-Institut, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, D-69120 Heidelberg Tel. +49-6221-548917 / Fax +49-6221-546338 http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/ -- www.ritualdynamik.uni-hd.de -- http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/index.html Emails: sek-michaels at uni-heidelberg.de (SAI office) -- Axel.Michaels at urz.uni-heidelberg.de (official and personal) -- michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de (Cluster mail) ________________________________ Von: Patrick Olivelle An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Gesendet: Sonntag, den 23. Mai 2010, 15:44:17 Uhr Betreff: [INDOLOGY] aratni Friends: here is a question. I am trying to get the measurement of the Sanskrit aratni. Both M-W and Bohtlingk gives the old measurement "ell" -- which is said to be 45 inches (1.14 meters). This surely cannot be if the measurement is from the elbow to the tip of the middle finger. Apte gives the measurement as 24 angulas (i.e., about 47 cms.). The latter is also the measurement given by Basham in his Wonder. Thanks for any comments. Patrick From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Tue May 25 14:26:51 2010 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Tue, 25 May 10 16:26:51 +0200 Subject: GRETIL update #372 Message-ID: <161227089691.23782.7322068815244376077.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 578 Lines: 23 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Pancavimsatisahasrika Prajnaparamita , Part 1 __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Wed May 26 09:33:35 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Wed, 26 May 10 04:33:35 -0500 Subject: chinese epigraphs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089695.23782.17822939890504582230.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 438 Lines: 18 I believe that you will find a recent article by Francoise Wang-Toutain in the journal Arts Asiatiques concerning in large art the dharanis in Sanskrit in the tomb of the emperor Qianlong. Sooner or later I imagine that she will be publishing a full study of this. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From jmdelire at ULB.AC.BE Wed May 26 14:17:46 2010 From: jmdelire at ULB.AC.BE (Jean-Michel Delire) Date: Wed, 26 May 10 16:17:46 +0200 Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] aratni Message-ID: <161227089697.23782.10100010695021149895.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2567 Lines: 40 Dear Patrick, I don't think this botanical explanation by Pr. Michaels is appropriate. Georg Thibaut, who was the first to edit the Baudh.'Sulb., expressed the view that the very peculiar value of 34 tila for an a'ngula is related to the existence of an approximate value to the square root of 2 (Baudh 'Sulb. I.61) which uses the 34th part of an a'ngula (JASB, vol.44, 1875, p.227). In a recent article (Centaurus, vol.47, 2005, p.60), I also showed that the value of 14 a.nu for an a'ngula is related to the unattested approximate value of 7 + 1/14 to the diagonal of a square of side 5 and to the attested common and gross procedure for transforming a circle into a square (Baudh.'Sulb.I.60 for instance). Best regards, Jean Michel Delire >Patrick, >according to Baudh SulvS I.16 together with I.7 and I.3 one aratni would come to 45.7 cm given that the measurement for one angula is 3/4 inch. (c. 1905 cm). This calculation is based on botanical consideration, i.e. 1 angula = 34 tila (sesam indicum) or 14 aNu (panicum miliaceum). According to my perhaps outdated view (see my Beweisverfahren in der vedischen Sakralgeometrie, 1978, pp. 156-7) the differences depend on whether the seeds are taken with or without husk and measured by breadth or length. >Best wishes, Axel > ------------------------------ >Prof. Dr. Axel Michaels >Acting Director Excellence Cluster "Asia and Europe in a Global Context", Sprecher des SFB 619 ("Ritualdynamik") > >Universit?t Heidelberg, S?dasien-Institut, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, D-69120 Heidelberg >Tel. +49-6221-548917 / Fax +49-6221-546338 >http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/ -- www.ritualdynamik.uni-hd.de -- http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/index.html >Emails: sek-michaels at uni-heidelberg.de (SAI office) -- Axel.Michaels at urz.uni-heidelberg.de (official and personal) -- michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de (Cluster mail) > > > > >________________________________ >Von: Patrick Olivelle >An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Gesendet: Sonntag, den 23. Mai 2010, 15:44:17 Uhr >Betreff: [INDOLOGY] aratni > >Friends: here is a question. I am trying to get the measurement of the Sanskrit aratni. Both M-W and Bohtlingk gives the old measurement "ell" -- which is said to be 45 inches (1.14 meters). This surely cannot be if the measurement is from the elbow to the tip of the middle finger. Apte gives the measurement as 24 angulas (i.e., about 47 cms.). The latter is also the measurement given by Basham in his Wonder. > >Thanks for any comments. > >Patrick > > From hopeforageneration at GMAIL.COM Wed May 26 09:13:23 2010 From: hopeforageneration at GMAIL.COM (patrick mccartney) Date: Wed, 26 May 10 18:43:23 +0930 Subject: chinese epigraphs Message-ID: <161227089693.23782.9816993970976331640.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 289 Lines: 18 Dear List, I would appreciate any references regarding Sanskrit epigraphs in the ranjana script with particular reference to China. -- Patrick McCartney - PO Box 704 Walkerville South Australia 5081 SKYPE: cranky-mechanic ?? ????? ??????? tava hRdayaM anugaccha Follow your heart From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Thu May 27 00:09:12 2010 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Wed, 26 May 10 20:09:12 -0400 Subject: Question on behalf of Harry Spier Message-ID: <161227089699.23782.2152699046452997615.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 322 Lines: 15 I am forwarding a question on behalf of Harry Spier. Please respond to him directly. Best, Madhav Deshpande Dear list members, Would it be possible for a list member to scan the New Catalogus Catalogorum entry for "gurugItA" and send it to me at hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Many thanks in advance, Harry Spier From axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE Thu May 27 12:39:11 2010 From: axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE (Axel Michaels) Date: Thu, 27 May 10 12:39:11 +0000 Subject: aratni Message-ID: <161227089701.23782.15119756742224662227.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4137 Lines: 61 My calculation for aratni tries to objectify what is given as a relational measurement in the Sulvasutras. The problem is the one Patrick had: If, for example, we take a'ngula/i as "the thumb's breadth" or "Daumenbreite" and mearure it with approx. 1.905 cm (thus A.K. Bag, The Knowledge of geometrical figures; G. Pillai, The Way of the Silpis, J. Eggeling, SB III, S. 309, et al.), and if we then apply the relational measurements of the Sulvasutras, we get too large measurements: a purusa would be 228 cm; which would be too much even if we consider that this means a man with streched arms. Given the fact that the average male body height in India is c. 167 cm (see Karve Anthropometric Measurements of the Marathas, p. 17), this measurement cannot be realistic. The other problem is that in the sacrificial context the measurements are related to the yajamAna, i.e. not standardised. In MAnSulvS 1.4.1, however, it is asked what one should do if the yajamAna is crippled. Then follow standardisations according to botanical criteria, i.e. a.nu, tila, yava etc. If we take these as the standard, we approx. get the measurement I had calculated for aratni. All this is based on research that I made 30 years ago; perhaps there are better solutions to this problem. Best, Axel Michaels P please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. ________________________________ Von: Jean-Michel Delire An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Gesendet: Mittwoch, den 26. Mai 2010, 16:17:46 Uhr Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] AW: [INDOLOGY] aratni Dear Patrick, I don't think this botanical explanation by Pr. Michaels is appropriate. Georg Thibaut, who was the first to edit the Baudh.'Sulb., expressed the view that the very peculiar value of 34 tila for an a'ngula is related to the existence of an approximate value to the square root of 2 (Baudh 'Sulb. I.61) which uses the 34th part of an a'ngula (JASB, vol.44, 1875, p.227). In a recent article (Centaurus, vol.47, 2005, p.60), I also showed that the value of 14 a.nu for an a'ngula is related to the unattested approximate value of 7 + 1/14 to the diagonal of a square of side 5 and to the attested common and gross procedure for transforming a circle into a square (Baudh.'Sulb.I.60 for instance). Best regards, Jean Michel Delire >Patrick, >according to Baudh SulvS I.16 together with I.7 and I.3 one aratni would come to 45.7 cm given that the measurement for one angula is 3/4 inch. (c. 1905 cm). This calculation is based on botanical consideration, i.e. 1 angula = 34 tila (sesam indicum) or 14 aNu (panicum miliaceum). According to my perhaps outdated view (see my Beweisverfahren in der vedischen Sakralgeometrie, 1978, pp. 156-7) the differences depend on whether the seeds are taken with or without husk and measured by breadth or length. >Best wishes, Axel > ------------------------------ >Prof. Dr. Axel Michaels >Acting Director Excellence Cluster "Asia and Europe in a Global Context", Sprecher des SFB 619 ("Ritualdynamik") > >Universit?t Heidelberg, S?dasien-Institut, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, D-69120 Heidelberg >Tel. +49-6221-548917 / Fax +49-6221-546338 >http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/-- www.ritualdynamik.uni-hd.de -- http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/index.html >Emails: sek-michaels at uni-heidelberg.de (SAI office) -- Axel.Michaels at urz.uni-heidelberg.de (official and personal) -- michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de (Cluster mail) > > > > >________________________________ >Von: Patrick Olivelle >An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Gesendet: Sonntag, den 23. Mai 2010, 15:44:17 Uhr >Betreff: [INDOLOGY] aratni > >Friends: here is a question. I am trying to get the measurement of the Sanskrit aratni. Both M-W and Bohtlingk gives the old measurement "ell" -- which is said to be 45 inches (1.14 meters). This surely cannot be if the measurement is from the elbow to the tip of the middle finger. Apte gives the measurement as 24 angulas (i.e., about 47 cms.). The latter is also the measurement given by Basham in his Wonder. > >Thanks for any comments. > >Patrick > > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu May 27 13:51:07 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 27 May 10 15:51:07 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Correction Re: gurugita In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227089704.23782.2842295573822592272.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 391 Lines: 19 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Harry Spier Date: 27 May 2010 14:13 Subject: Correction Re: gurugita On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 8:11 AM, Harry Spier wrote: > > --------------- > Many thanks to: > Harunaga Isaacson, Dominik Wujastyk, Daniel Stender for forwarding the NCC > pages. > > Best wishes, > Harry Spier > From jkirk at SPRO.NET Mon Nov 1 17:01:07 2010 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 10 11:01:07 -0600 Subject: FW: [INDOLOGY] Enquiry with regard to colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions Message-ID: <161227090670.23782.14279060826982506282.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 979 Lines: 42 Dr. Thomas Kintaert has published on and done a lot of research on this topic: Dr. Thomas Kintaert Department of South Asian, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies, University of Vienna Uni-Campus AAKH Spitalg. 2, Hof 2.1. A-1090 Wien, Austria (Europe) Tel.: +43-1-4277-43518 Fax: +43-1-4277-9435 thomas.kintaert at univie.ac.at Best wishes, Joanna Kirkpatrick ________________________ -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of James Hegarty Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 9:53 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Enquiry with regard to colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions Dear Colleagues, An undergraduate student recently asked me about colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions. I realised very quickly that I knew very little about this. Can anyone suggest readings (primary and secondary) on this topic? With Thanks and Best Wishes, James Hegarty Senior Lecturer in Indian Religions Cardiff University From harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM Mon Nov 1 16:05:41 2010 From: harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM (Harsha Dehejia) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 10 12:05:41 -0400 Subject: Colour Symbolism Message-ID: <161227090667.23782.3787263271453840514.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 195 Lines: 13 Freinds: There was an inquiry abouyt colour symobolism this morning. Vishnudharmottara Purana makes some reference to this. Regards. Harsha V. Dehejia Ottawa, ON. Canada. From hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Mon Nov 1 15:53:03 2010 From: hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (James Hegarty) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 10 15:53:03 +0000 Subject: Enquiry with regard to colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions Message-ID: <161227090664.23782.11131117047237056636.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 339 Lines: 17 Dear Colleagues, An undergraduate student recently asked me about colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions. I realised very quickly that I knew very little about this. Can anyone suggest readings (primary and secondary) on this topic? With Thanks and Best Wishes, James Hegarty Senior Lecturer in Indian Religions Cardiff University From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Mon Nov 1 17:28:12 2010 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 10 18:28:12 +0100 Subject: Enquiry with regard to colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions In-Reply-To: <862A9427-505C-4C8D-9156-7C060A6D7BF3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227090674.23782.9709219394002623061.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 890 Lines: 31 Am 01.11.2010 um 16:53 schrieb James Hegarty: > An undergraduate student recently asked me about colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions. > > I realised very quickly that I knew very little about this. > > Can anyone suggest readings (primary and secondary) on this topic? Here are two theses: Jain, Narendra Kumar: Indian Colour Symbolism. Berlin, 1978 Berlin, Techn. Univ., Diss., 1977 Slavik, Jan: Dance of Colours: Basic Patterns of Colour Symbolism in Mah?y?na Buddhism. G?teborg: G?teborgs Etnografiska Museum, 1994. (Etnologiska studier, v. 41). ISBN 9187484080 University of G?teborg, Ph. D. Thesis, 1994 Besides these, many publications on iconography deal also with religious symbolism and will give lots of references in this respect. Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn From h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX Tue Nov 2 01:42:53 2010 From: h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX (Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 10 18:42:53 -0700 Subject: Enquiry with regard to colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions In-Reply-To: <862A9427-505C-4C8D-9156-7C060A6D7BF3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227090687.23782.5035227230808802033.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1136 Lines: 43 Dear Professor Hagarty: Let me congratulate your quest. Because many other scholars send to you sufficient bibliography, etc... I will be very thanks if, when you finish your? color issue recopilation, please send me a summary for my class. With my best wishes Lic. M.A. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad Internacional Euroamericana. Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada. Miembro del Instituto de Estudios Filos?ficos de Saltillo A. C. www.uie.edu.es --- El lun 1-nov-10, James Hegarty escribi?: De: James Hegarty Asunto: [INDOLOGY] Enquiry with regard to colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions A: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Fecha: lunes, 1 de noviembre de 2010, 15:53 Dear Colleagues, An undergraduate student recently asked me about colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions. I realised very quickly that I knew very little about this. Can anyone suggest readings (primary and secondary) on this topic? With Thanks and Best Wishes, James Hegarty Senior Lecturer in Indian Religions Cardiff University From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Mon Nov 1 17:49:11 2010 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 10 18:49:11 +0100 Subject: Enquiry with regard to colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090677.23782.9632273958329611542.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1342 Lines: 54 References in the Indology list-archives s.v. "colours" http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?S1=indology (colours and 4 yugas, 4 var.nas, 9 rasas, etc.) Best wishes, Christophe Vielle >Am 01.11.2010 um 16:53 schrieb James Hegarty: > >> An undergraduate student recently asked me >>about colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions. >> >> I realised very quickly that I knew very little about this. >> >> Can anyone suggest readings (primary and secondary) on this topic? > > >Here are two theses: > >Jain, Narendra Kumar: Indian Colour Symbolism. Berlin, 1978 >Berlin, Techn. Univ., Diss., 1977 > >Slavik, Jan: Dance of Colours: Basic Patterns of >Colour Symbolism in Mah?y?na Buddhism. G?teborg: >G?teborgs Etnografiska Museum, 1994. >(Etnologiska studier, v. 41). ISBN 9187484080 >University of G?teborg, Ph. D. Thesis, 1994 > >Besides these, many publications on iconography >deal also with religious symbolism and will give >lots of references in this respect. > >Hope it helps >Peter Wyzlic > >-- >Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften >Bibliothek >Universit?t Bonn >Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 >53113 Bonn -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ -- Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of storage free. http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Mon Nov 1 18:26:54 2010 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 10 19:26:54 +0100 Subject: Enquiry with regard to colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090680.23782.15336158395386469518.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1922 Lines: 76 I do not have the reference to hand, but the famous Huizinga (known as a historian of Europe) wrote a thesis on var?a in the sense of color, unfortunately in Dutch. Perhaps a translation project some day... jonathan On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 6:49 PM, Christophe Vielle < christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> wrote: > References in the Indology list-archives s.v. "colours" > http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?S1=indology > (colours and 4 yugas, 4 var.nas, 9 rasas, etc.) > Best wishes, > Christophe Vielle > > > Am 01.11.2010 um 16:53 schrieb James Hegarty: >> >> An undergraduate student recently asked me about colour symbolism in >>> Hindu Traditions. >>> >>> I realised very quickly that I knew very little about this. >>> >>> Can anyone suggest readings (primary and secondary) on this topic? >>> >> >> >> Here are two theses: >> >> Jain, Narendra Kumar: Indian Colour Symbolism. Berlin, 1978 >> Berlin, Techn. Univ., Diss., 1977 >> >> Slavik, Jan: Dance of Colours: Basic Patterns of Colour Symbolism in >> Mah?y?na Buddhism. G?teborg: G?teborgs Etnografiska Museum, 1994. >> (Etnologiska studier, v. 41). ISBN 9187484080 >> >> University of G?teborg, Ph. D. Thesis, 1994 >> >> Besides these, many publications on iconography deal also with religious >> symbolism and will give lots of references in this respect. >> >> Hope it helps >> Peter Wyzlic >> >> -- >> Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften >> Bibliothek >> Universit?t Bonn >> Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 >> 53113 Bonn >> > > > -- > http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle > http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ > > -- > Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of > storage free. > http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ > -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Mon Nov 1 17:13:14 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 10 22:43:14 +0530 Subject: Enquiry with regard to colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions In-Reply-To: <862A9427-505C-4C8D-9156-7C060A6D7BF3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227090672.23782.14307452759812252351.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 804 Lines: 33 The Aalankaarikas beginning?with Bharata speak of the individual colours pertaining to particular rasas. Another source will be the dhyaanas of deities in the Tantric manuals. Best DB --- On Mon, 1/11/10, James Hegarty wrote: From: James Hegarty Subject: [INDOLOGY] Enquiry with regard to colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 1 November, 2010, 3:53 PM Dear Colleagues, An undergraduate student recently asked me about colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions. I realised very quickly that I knew very little about this. Can anyone suggest readings (primary and secondary) on this topic? With Thanks and Best Wishes, James Hegarty Senior Lecturer in Indian Religions Cardiff University From james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM Mon Nov 1 21:49:33 2010 From: james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM (James Hartzell) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 10 22:49:33 +0100 Subject: Sanskrit Book Fair, 2011 Message-ID: <161227090682.23782.16631649318074975599.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1628 Lines: 26 A member of one of the Sanskrit discussion lists posted a note today with several newspaper articles about the upcoming Sanskrit Book Fair in Bangalore, January 2011. Here's one: http://www.hindu.com/2010/09/21/stories/2010092150220200.htm Big preparation on for Sanskrit book fair Special Correspondent BANGALORE: A four-day Sanskrit book fair will be held at the National College grounds here from January 7. The fair, the first ever to be held, is being jointly organised by the Union Human Resource Development Ministry's Rashtreeya Samskrit Sansthan, the Government of Karnataka, all the 15 Sanskrit universities, seven Sanskrit academies, 16 Oriental Research Institutes, the International Association for Sanskrit Studies, the National Manuscript Mission, Sanskrit Bharati and NGOs working in the field of Sanskrit. Speaking to reporters, the former Chief Justice of India M.N. Venkatachaliah and Chamu Krishna Shastry, president and secretary, respectively, of the National Advisory Board of the fair said Sanskrit, being a pan-Indian cultural language, would act as an impetus to national integration and harmony. Delegates The fair is expected to attract 10,000 delegates. They include representatives of 120 Sanskrit postgraduate departments of general universities and 100 publishers and scholars/participants from 20 countries. Other events Mr. Venkatachaliah said a conference of Sanskrit scholars, a large exhibition on the knowledge heritage of India and cultural programmes will be part of the fair. The fair's website is http://www.samskritbookfair.org/ See you there? James Hartzell U. of Trento From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Mon Nov 1 23:06:17 2010 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 10 23:06:17 +0000 Subject: Enquiry with regard to colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions In-Reply-To: <862A9427-505C-4C8D-9156-7C060A6D7BF3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227090685.23782.7177135913185384645.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1308 Lines: 31 I highly recommend the study Damais, Louis-Charles: ?tudes javanaises. III. A propos des couleurs symboliques des points cardinaux. In: Bulletin de l'Ecole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient. Tome 56, 1969. pp. 75-118. [I myself have a problem downloading articles from this site recently, and got a blank file when I tried this one a few months ago; hopefully that problem is resolved now; in any case, the article can be consulted and searched online.] It is presented as an '?tude javanaise', but in fact contains many properly indological data, and in any case, the Javanese tradition is equally a Hindu Tradition. Arlo GriffithsEFEO/Jakarta > Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 15:53:03 +0000 > From: hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Enquiry with regard to colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Dear Colleagues, > > An undergraduate student recently asked me about colour symbolism in > Hindu Traditions. > > I realised very quickly that I knew very little about this. > > Can anyone suggest readings (primary and secondary) on this topic? > > With Thanks and Best Wishes, > > James Hegarty > Senior Lecturer in Indian Religions > Cardiff University From klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI Tue Nov 2 13:11:21 2010 From: klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI (Klaus Karttunen) Date: Tue, 02 Nov 10 15:11:21 +0200 Subject: Enquiry with regard to colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090689.23782.17395749976710725948.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3420 Lines: 109 Dear Jonathan and others. According to my notes Huizingas diss. was not on colours, but De vid?saka in het Indisch tooneel. 155 p. Groningen 1897. Other discussions of colours include: FILLIOZAT, Jean: "Classement des couleurs et des lumi?res en sanscrit", Probl?mes de la couleur. P. 1957, 303-308 (Laghuprabandha 185-190). GR?NBOLD, G?nter: "Die Farbensymbolik in der buddhistischen Ikonographie", As.St./?t.as. 32, 1978, 117-122. HOPKINS, Edward Washburn: ?Words for Color in the Rig-Veda?, AJPh 4, 1883, 166-191. SIVAPRIYANANDA: "Colour symbolism and the ?tri-gu?a? concept", JOIB 38:1-2, 1988, 33-41. Note further: SCHWENTNER, Ernst: diss. Eine sprachgeschichtliche Untersuchung ?ber den Gebrauch und die Bedeutung der altgermanischen Farbenzeichnungen. 1915. SOLTA, G. R.: "Zum expressiven Charakter der indogermanischen Farbenbezeichnungen", Anz?stAW 87, 1950, 40-52. TIFFOU, ?tienne & Yves-Ch. MORIN: ??tude sur les couleurs bourouchaski?, JA 270, 1982, 363-383. WOOD, Francis Asbury: Color-names and their congeners. 1902 (Indo-European). Best, Klaus Klaus Karttunen Professor of South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674 Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094 Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi On Nov 1, 2010, at 8:26 PM, Jonathan Silk wrote: > I do not have the reference to hand, but the famous Huizinga (known as a > historian of Europe) wrote a thesis on var?a in the sense of color, > unfortunately in Dutch. Perhaps a translation project some day... > > jonathan > > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 6:49 PM, Christophe Vielle < > christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> wrote: > >> References in the Indology list-archives s.v. "colours" >> http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?S1=indology >> (colours and 4 yugas, 4 var.nas, 9 rasas, etc.) >> Best wishes, >> Christophe Vielle >> >> >> Am 01.11.2010 um 16:53 schrieb James Hegarty: >>> >>> An undergraduate student recently asked me about colour symbolism in >>>> Hindu Traditions. >>>> >>>> I realised very quickly that I knew very little about this. >>>> >>>> Can anyone suggest readings (primary and secondary) on this topic? >>>> >>> >>> >>> Here are two theses: >>> >>> Jain, Narendra Kumar: Indian Colour Symbolism. Berlin, 1978 >>> Berlin, Techn. Univ., Diss., 1977 >>> >>> Slavik, Jan: Dance of Colours: Basic Patterns of Colour Symbolism in >>> Mah?y?na Buddhism. G?teborg: G?teborgs Etnografiska Museum, 1994. >>> (Etnologiska studier, v. 41). ISBN 9187484080 >>> >>> University of G?teborg, Ph. D. Thesis, 1994 >>> >>> Besides these, many publications on iconography deal also with religious >>> symbolism and will give lots of references in this respect. >>> >>> Hope it helps >>> Peter Wyzlic >>> >>> -- >>> Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften >>> Bibliothek >>> Universit?t Bonn >>> Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 >>> 53113 Bonn >>> >> >> >> -- >> http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle >> http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ >> >> -- >> Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of >> storage free. >> http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ >> > > > > -- > J. Silk > Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden > Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS > Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 > Doelensteeg 16 > 2311 VL Leiden > The Netherlands > From annamisia at YAHOO.COM Wed Nov 3 10:44:23 2010 From: annamisia at YAHOO.COM (Anna A. Slaczka) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 10 03:44:23 -0700 Subject: Enquiry with regard to colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090694.23782.15980884456091146804.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4871 Lines: 220 Are you thinking of: Dharma and society : a comparative study of the theory and the ideal of Varna ("natural class") and the phenomena of caste and class by Mees (1935)? I have no idea if it says anything about varna as colour. Beste, Anna Slaczka The Rijksmuseum Amsterdam --- On Wed, 11/3/10, Jonathan Silk wrote: > From: Jonathan Silk > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Enquiry with regard to colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Wednesday, November 3, 2010, 9:23 AM > Klaus is right and my memory was > faulty; Huizinga indeed wrote on the > vidusaka. But I still believe that some Dutch scholar wrote > a thesis on > varna as color--Arlo, do you know? > > On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 2:11 PM, Klaus Karttunen > wrote: > > > Dear Jonathan and others. > > > > According to my notes Huizingas diss. was not on > colours, but? *De > > vid?saka in het Indisch tooneel.* 155 p. Groningen > 1897. > > Other discussions of colours include: > > FILLIOZAT, Jean: "Classement des couleurs et des > lumi?res en sanscrit", *Probl?mes > > de la couleur.* P. 1957, 303-308 (*Laghuprabandha* > 185-190). > > GR?NBOLD, G?nter: "Die Farbensymbolik in der > buddhistischen Ikonographie", > > *As.St./?t.as.* 32, 1978, 117-122. > > HOPKINS, Edward Washburn: ?Words for Color in the > Rig-Veda?, *AJPh* 4, > > 1883, 166-191. > > SIVAPRIYANANDA: "Colour symbolism and the > ?tri-gu?a? concept", *JOIB*38:1-2, 1988, 33-41. > > > > Note further: > > SCHWENTNER, Ernst: diss. *Eine sprachgeschichtliche > Untersuchung ?ber den > > Gebrauch und die Bedeutung der altgermanischen > Farbenzeichnungen.* 1915. > > SOLTA, G. R.: "Zum expressiven Charakter der > indogermanischen > > Farbenbezeichnungen", *Anz?stAW* 87, 1950, 40-52. > > TIFFOU, ?tienne & Yves-Ch. MORIN: ??tude sur > les couleurs bourouchaski?, * > > JA* 270, 1982, 363-383. > > WOOD, Francis Asbury: *Color-names and their > congeners.* 1902 > > (Indo-European). > > > > Best, > > Klaus > > > > Klaus Karttunen > > Professor of South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies > > Asian and African Studies, Department of World > Cultures > > PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) > > 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND > > Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674 > > Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094 > > Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 1, 2010, at 8:26 PM, Jonathan Silk wrote: > > > > I do not have the reference to hand, but the famous > Huizinga (known as a > > historian of Europe) wrote a thesis on var?a in the > sense of color, > > unfortunately in Dutch. Perhaps a translation project > some day... > > > > jonathan > > > > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 6:49 PM, Christophe Vielle > < > > christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> > wrote: > > > > References in the Indology list-archives s.v. > "colours" > > > > http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?S1=indology > > > > (colours and 4 yugas, 4 var.nas, 9 rasas, etc.) > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Christophe Vielle > > > > > > > > Am 01.11.2010 um 16:53 schrieb James Hegarty: > > > > > >? An undergraduate student recently asked me about > colour symbolism in > > > > Hindu Traditions. > > > > > > I realised very quickly that I knew very little about > this. > > > > > > Can anyone suggest readings (primary and secondary) on > this topic? > > > > > > > > > > Here are two theses: > > > > > > Jain, Narendra Kumar: Indian Colour Symbolism. Berlin, > 1978 > > > > Berlin, Techn. Univ., Diss., 1977 > > > > > > Slavik, Jan: Dance of Colours: Basic Patterns of > Colour Symbolism in > > > > Mah?y?na Buddhism. G?teborg: G?teborgs > Etnografiska Museum, 1994. > > > > (Etnologiska studier, v. 41). ISBN 9187484080 > > > > > > University of G?teborg, Ph. D. Thesis, 1994 > > > > > > Besides these, many publications on iconography deal > also with religious > > > > symbolism and will give lots of references in this > respect. > > > > > > Hope it helps > > > > Peter Wyzlic > > > > > > -- > > > > Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften > > > > Bibliothek > > > > Universit?t Bonn > > > > Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 > > > > 53113 Bonn > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle > > > > http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ > > > > > > -- > > > > Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get > 2.25 gigabytes of > > > > storage free. > > > > http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > J. Silk > > Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden > > Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS > > Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 > > Doelensteeg 16 > > 2311 VL Leiden > > The Netherlands > > > > > > > > > -- > J. Silk > Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden > Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS > Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 > Doelensteeg 16 > 2311 VL Leiden > The Netherlands > From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Wed Nov 3 11:36:23 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 10 06:36:23 -0500 Subject: Enquiry with regard to colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090699.23782.10615687956381935317.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 625 Lines: 21 I haven't had the chance to go back and check, but I believe that interesting issues of colour symbolism may also be found in some works on tantric yoga such as the .sa.tcakranirupa.nam, as well as musical works of the raagamaala type. (On the latter, Klaus Ebeling's 1973 study might be a good place to start, on the former, there's of course "Arthur Avalon's" The Serpent Power, but also a more recent French translation and study by Tara Michael.) Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Wed Nov 3 08:23:19 2010 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 10 09:23:19 +0100 Subject: Enquiry with regard to colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090692.23782.6522552414100197302.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3910 Lines: 170 Klaus is right and my memory was faulty; Huizinga indeed wrote on the vidusaka. But I still believe that some Dutch scholar wrote a thesis on varna as color--Arlo, do you know? On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 2:11 PM, Klaus Karttunen wrote: > Dear Jonathan and others. > > According to my notes Huizingas diss. was not on colours, but *De > vid?saka in het Indisch tooneel.* 155 p. Groningen 1897. > Other discussions of colours include: > FILLIOZAT, Jean: "Classement des couleurs et des lumi?res en sanscrit", *Probl?mes > de la couleur.* P. 1957, 303-308 (*Laghuprabandha* 185-190). > GR?NBOLD, G?nter: "Die Farbensymbolik in der buddhistischen Ikonographie", > *As.St./?t.as.* 32, 1978, 117-122. > HOPKINS, Edward Washburn: ?Words for Color in the Rig-Veda?, *AJPh* 4, > 1883, 166-191. > SIVAPRIYANANDA: "Colour symbolism and the ?tri-gu?a? concept", *JOIB*38:1-2, 1988, 33-41. > > Note further: > SCHWENTNER, Ernst: diss. *Eine sprachgeschichtliche Untersuchung ?ber den > Gebrauch und die Bedeutung der altgermanischen Farbenzeichnungen.* 1915. > SOLTA, G. R.: "Zum expressiven Charakter der indogermanischen > Farbenbezeichnungen", *Anz?stAW* 87, 1950, 40-52. > TIFFOU, ?tienne & Yves-Ch. MORIN: ??tude sur les couleurs bourouchaski?, * > JA* 270, 1982, 363-383. > WOOD, Francis Asbury: *Color-names and their congeners.* 1902 > (Indo-European). > > Best, > Klaus > > Klaus Karttunen > Professor of South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies > Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures > PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) > 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND > Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674 > Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094 > Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi > > > > > On Nov 1, 2010, at 8:26 PM, Jonathan Silk wrote: > > I do not have the reference to hand, but the famous Huizinga (known as a > historian of Europe) wrote a thesis on var?a in the sense of color, > unfortunately in Dutch. Perhaps a translation project some day... > > jonathan > > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 6:49 PM, Christophe Vielle < > christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> wrote: > > References in the Indology list-archives s.v. "colours" > > http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?S1=indology > > (colours and 4 yugas, 4 var.nas, 9 rasas, etc.) > > Best wishes, > > Christophe Vielle > > > > Am 01.11.2010 um 16:53 schrieb James Hegarty: > > > An undergraduate student recently asked me about colour symbolism in > > Hindu Traditions. > > > I realised very quickly that I knew very little about this. > > > Can anyone suggest readings (primary and secondary) on this topic? > > > > > Here are two theses: > > > Jain, Narendra Kumar: Indian Colour Symbolism. Berlin, 1978 > > Berlin, Techn. Univ., Diss., 1977 > > > Slavik, Jan: Dance of Colours: Basic Patterns of Colour Symbolism in > > Mah?y?na Buddhism. G?teborg: G?teborgs Etnografiska Museum, 1994. > > (Etnologiska studier, v. 41). ISBN 9187484080 > > > University of G?teborg, Ph. D. Thesis, 1994 > > > Besides these, many publications on iconography deal also with religious > > symbolism and will give lots of references in this respect. > > > Hope it helps > > Peter Wyzlic > > > -- > > Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften > > Bibliothek > > Universit?t Bonn > > Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 > > 53113 Bonn > > > > > -- > > http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle > > http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ > > > -- > > Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of > > storage free. > > http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ > > > > > > -- > J. Silk > Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden > Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS > Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 > Doelensteeg 16 > 2311 VL Leiden > The Netherlands > > > -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Wed Nov 3 10:53:07 2010 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 10 11:53:07 +0100 Subject: Enquiry with regard to colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions In-Reply-To: <794278.26520.qm@web55901.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227090696.23782.15647849815187338473.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5636 Lines: 241 I *thought* that it was something in Dutch, or perhaps Latin ... Jonathan On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 11:44 AM, Anna A. Slaczka wrote: > Are you thinking of: Dharma and society : a comparative study of the theory > and the ideal of Varna ("natural class") and the phenomena of caste and > class by Mees (1935)? I have no idea if it says anything about varna as > colour. > > Beste, > > Anna Slaczka > The Rijksmuseum > Amsterdam > > > > --- On Wed, 11/3/10, Jonathan Silk wrote: > > > From: Jonathan Silk > > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Enquiry with regard to colour symbolism in Hindu > Traditions > > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Date: Wednesday, November 3, 2010, 9:23 AM > > Klaus is right and my memory was > > faulty; Huizinga indeed wrote on the > > vidusaka. But I still believe that some Dutch scholar wrote > > a thesis on > > varna as color--Arlo, do you know? > > > > On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 2:11 PM, Klaus Karttunen < > klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi > > > wrote: > > > > > Dear Jonathan and others. > > > > > > According to my notes Huizingas diss. was not on > > colours, but *De > > > vid?saka in het Indisch tooneel.* 155 p. Groningen > > 1897. > > > Other discussions of colours include: > > > FILLIOZAT, Jean: "Classement des couleurs et des > > lumi?res en sanscrit", *Probl?mes > > > de la couleur.* P. 1957, 303-308 (*Laghuprabandha* > > 185-190). > > > GR?NBOLD, G?nter: "Die Farbensymbolik in der > > buddhistischen Ikonographie", > > > *As.St./?t.as.* 32, 1978, 117-122. > > > HOPKINS, Edward Washburn: ?Words for Color in the > > Rig-Veda?, *AJPh* 4, > > > 1883, 166-191. > > > SIVAPRIYANANDA: "Colour symbolism and the > > ?tri-gu?a? concept", *JOIB*38:1-2, 1988, 33-41. > > > > > > Note further: > > > SCHWENTNER, Ernst: diss. *Eine sprachgeschichtliche > > Untersuchung ?ber den > > > Gebrauch und die Bedeutung der altgermanischen > > Farbenzeichnungen.* 1915. > > > SOLTA, G. R.: "Zum expressiven Charakter der > > indogermanischen > > > Farbenbezeichnungen", *Anz?stAW* 87, 1950, 40-52. > > > TIFFOU, ?tienne & Yves-Ch. MORIN: ??tude sur > > les couleurs bourouchaski?, * > > > JA* 270, 1982, 363-383. > > > WOOD, Francis Asbury: *Color-names and their > > congeners.* 1902 > > > (Indo-European). > > > > > > Best, > > > Klaus > > > > > > Klaus Karttunen > > > Professor of South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies > > > Asian and African Studies, Department of World > > Cultures > > > PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) > > > 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND > > > Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674 > > > Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094 > > > Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 1, 2010, at 8:26 PM, Jonathan Silk wrote: > > > > > > I do not have the reference to hand, but the famous > > Huizinga (known as a > > > historian of Europe) wrote a thesis on var?a in the > > sense of color, > > > unfortunately in Dutch. Perhaps a translation project > > some day... > > > > > > jonathan > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 6:49 PM, Christophe Vielle > > < > > > christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> > > wrote: > > > > > > References in the Indology list-archives s.v. > > "colours" > > > > > > http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?S1=indology > > > > > > (colours and 4 yugas, 4 var.nas, 9 rasas, etc.) > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > Christophe Vielle > > > > > > > > > > > > Am 01.11.2010 um 16:53 schrieb James Hegarty: > > > > > > > > > An undergraduate student recently asked me about > > colour symbolism in > > > > > > Hindu Traditions. > > > > > > > > > I realised very quickly that I knew very little about > > this. > > > > > > > > > Can anyone suggest readings (primary and secondary) on > > this topic? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here are two theses: > > > > > > > > > Jain, Narendra Kumar: Indian Colour Symbolism. Berlin, > > 1978 > > > > > > Berlin, Techn. Univ., Diss., 1977 > > > > > > > > > Slavik, Jan: Dance of Colours: Basic Patterns of > > Colour Symbolism in > > > > > > Mah?y?na Buddhism. G?teborg: G?teborgs > > Etnografiska Museum, 1994. > > > > > > (Etnologiska studier, v. 41). ISBN 9187484080 > > > > > > > > > University of G?teborg, Ph. D. Thesis, 1994 > > > > > > > > > Besides these, many publications on iconography deal > > also with religious > > > > > > symbolism and will give lots of references in this > > respect. > > > > > > > > > Hope it helps > > > > > > Peter Wyzlic > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften > > > > > > Bibliothek > > > > > > Universit?t Bonn > > > > > > Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 > > > > > > 53113 Bonn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle > > > > > > http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get > > 2.25 gigabytes of > > > > > > storage free. > > > > > > http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > J. Silk > > > Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden > > > Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS > > > Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 > > > Doelensteeg 16 > > > 2311 VL Leiden > > > The Netherlands > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > J. Silk > > Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden > > Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS > > Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 > > Doelensteeg 16 > > 2311 VL Leiden > > The Netherlands > > > > > > -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Nov 3 18:17:46 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 10 14:17:46 -0400 Subject: Enquiry with regard to colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions In-Reply-To: <20101103063623.ADO52810@mstore02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227090712.23782.2305819302289121692.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 871 Lines: 22 There is also something on the subject as applied to things such as what clothes are appropriate for rites for different purposes in Teun Goudriaan's Maya Divine and Human (Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass, 1978), which in turn is largely concerned with the texts assembled in Indrajalavidyasangraha < http://lccn.loc.gov/97903901 > (I think there are later printings of this collection than the 1915 LOC has microfiched.) Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA Wed Nov 3 18:21:12 2010 From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 10 14:21:12 -0400 Subject: Enquiry with regard to colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F151490DD62@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227090715.23782.16274479804601263705.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1229 Lines: 46 There is also a chapter in the Manasollasa about what colour clothes should be worn in what season. Some of it seems still valid, such as green and yellow for spring. Best Stella Sandahl -- Stella Sandahl ssandahl at sympatico.ca On 3-Nov-10, at 2:17 PM, Thrasher, Allen wrote: > There is also something on the subject as applied to things such as > what clothes are appropriate for rites for different purposes in > Teun Goudriaan's Maya Divine and Human (Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass, > 1978), which in turn is largely concerned with the texts assembled > in Indrajalavidyasangraha < http://lccn.loc.gov/97903901 > (I think > there are later printings of this collection than the 1915 LOC has > microfiched.) > > Allen > > > Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. > Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator > South Asia Team > Asian Division > Library of Congress > Washington, DC 20540-4810 > USA > tel. 202-707-3732 > fax 202-707-1724 > The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the > Library of Congress. > > > Matthew T. Kapstein > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of > Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des > Hautes Etudes, Paris > From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Nov 3 15:00:38 2010 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 10 15:00:38 +0000 Subject: Ancient Script Message-ID: <161227090706.23782.16748750650945042490.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1799 Lines: 45 The plate is taken from a paper by a British author of the 19th c. I do not have the original publication at hand, but I guess it is from the Laidlay 1886 or one of the two Low papers in the bibliography in the attached article. The plate comprises more than one inscription, at a quick glance all from Malaysia but not precisely from Penang. If I am not overlooking anything, it is all Sanskrit, and all related to Buddhism. The attached paper contain complete bibliography up to the mid 1980. Apologies for the poor quality. (Can anyone help me get a better pdf?) Arlo GriffithsEFEO/Jakarta > Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:59:46 +0200 > From: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Ancient Script > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Forwarded message. Replies CC'ed to rahula_80 at yahoo.com please (and the > list, if you wish). > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On 21 October 2010 15:32, Ngawang Dorje wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I wanted to ask the experts in the Indology discussion group, but I am not > > a member. I wonder if you could help me. > > > > Thanks, > > Rahula > > > > ---------- > > > > I would be very grateful if you could transcript and translate the document > > that is attached with this email. It is from a rock inscription dated 5th > > century AD, found in Penang, Malaysia (if you could read the script). Can > > you also let me know if it's Pali or Sanskrit? > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Allen1986-87.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 555972 bytes Desc: not available URL: From patrick.mcallister at UNIVIE.AC.AT Thu Nov 4 09:45:52 2010 From: patrick.mcallister at UNIVIE.AC.AT (patrick mc allister) Date: Thu, 04 Nov 10 10:45:52 +0100 Subject: SARIT web application - Errors and Error Reporting In-Reply-To: <20101104091403.GD20365@proliant.indica-et-buddhica.org> Message-ID: <161227090720.23782.10262554836569910710.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1472 Lines: 38 * Richard MAHONEY [2010-11-04 10:14]: > Dear Readers, > > I have just been trying to use the SARIT web application for the first > time since the move from the States to Austria. Unfortunately, the web > interface seems to have been broken. While this is sometimes minor > there is at least one instance where things are somewhat more > serious. I find that one can no longer conveniently search for > material using simple ASCII character codes. Does anyone know who is > currently maintaining the site? I would like to be able to send > through a list of issues that seem to have arisen subsequent to the > site `upgrade'. Dear Richard, the site's technical parts are currently being maintained by me. For more general matters (adding texts to be searched, etc.), Dominik Wujastyk should be contacted. It would be very helpful if you could send me a list of things that broke or changed since the `upgrade'. Actually, anyone with such observations should please write to either Dominik or me. Thanks in advance, -- patrick mc allister long term email: pma at rdorte.org *current* office email: patrick.mcallister at oeaw.ac.at homepage: http://rdorte.org/pma/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Nov 4 12:04:14 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 04 Nov 10 13:04:14 +0100 Subject: Conference announcement: BASAS conference, Southampton, April 11-13, 2011 Message-ID: <161227090723.23782.10746894521026108545.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1592 Lines: 42 Full information here: http://basas-southasia.blogspot.com/2010/11/25th-annual-basas-conference-april-11.html Extracts: BASAS (British Association of South Asian Studies) As the largest UK academic association devoted to the study of South Asia, BASAS is also one of the world's leading learned societies for the study of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bhutan, Maldives and the South Asian Diaspora. 25th Annual BASAS Conference April 11-13, 2011 University of Southampton Bodies of Power, Forms of Power: South Asia through History and Across Disciplines Who holds power in South Asia? Who holds power in relation to South Asia and the South Asian diaspora? How is power embodied, how is it wielded, and to what ends? Where is power located, how is it accessed, how is it articulated, and how is it signified? Who submits to power, who ignores power, and who resists power? How is power formed, how is it performed, and in what forms and through what bodies is it negotiated? The 2011, 25th anniversary annual BASAS (British Association of South Asian Studies) conference aims to lay bare the diverse and complex ways in which power is and has been negotiated in the South Asia region. Through the key terms of 'bodies' and 'forms', we aim to encourage interdisciplinary conversations about the ways in which power is understood, endorsed and undermined in both everyday lives, and at fraught moments of South Asian history. We invite proposals for panels and papers that address Bodies of Power, Forms of Power at personal, local, state and inter-state levels From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Nov 4 12:20:32 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 04 Nov 10 13:20:32 +0100 Subject: SARIT web application - Errors and Error Reporting In-Reply-To: <20101104091403.GD20365@proliant.indica-et-buddhica.org> Message-ID: <161227090726.23782.14141568818962183618.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1192 Lines: 45 Thanks for spotting this, Richard. Patrick has already responded to you, and we'll look into the glitches. Your list of issues would be most helpful. Best, Dominik On 4 November 2010 10:14, Richard MAHONEY wrote: > Dear Readers, > > I have just been trying to use the SARIT web application for the first > time since the move from the States to Austria. Unfortunately, the web > interface seems to have been broken. While this is sometimes minor > there is at least one instance where things are somewhat more > serious. I find that one can no longer conveniently search for > material using simple ASCII character codes. Does anyone know who is > currently maintaining the site? I would like to be able to send > through a list of issues that seem to have arisen subsequent to the > site `upgrade'. > > > Best regards, > > Richard > > > > -- > Richard MAHONEY - Indica et Buddhica > > Littledene, Bay Road, OXFORD 7430, NZ > PO Box 25, OXFORD 7443 > +64 3 312 1699 / +64 275 829 986 > r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org > http://indica-et-buddhica.org > http://camera-antipodea.indica-et-buddhica.com > From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Thu Nov 4 16:19:36 2010 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Thu, 04 Nov 10 17:19:36 +0100 Subject: GRETIL update #380 Message-ID: <161227090728.23782.3848571552268283507.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 849 Lines: 31 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Jayaraksita: Sphutartha Srighanacarasamgrahatika Srighanacarasamgraha [reconstructed mula text] Mahasannipataratnaketudharanisutra, or Ratnaketuparivarta __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG Thu Nov 4 09:14:03 2010 From: r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Thu, 04 Nov 10 22:14:03 +1300 Subject: SARIT web application - Errors and Error Reporting Message-ID: <161227090718.23782.6898602672672702977.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 847 Lines: 31 Dear Readers, I have just been trying to use the SARIT web application for the first time since the move from the States to Austria. Unfortunately, the web interface seems to have been broken. While this is sometimes minor there is at least one instance where things are somewhat more serious. I find that one can no longer conveniently search for material using simple ASCII character codes. Does anyone know who is currently maintaining the site? I would like to be able to send through a list of issues that seem to have arisen subsequent to the site `upgrade'. Best regards, Richard -- Richard MAHONEY - Indica et Buddhica Littledene, Bay Road, OXFORD 7430, NZ PO Box 25, OXFORD 7443 +64 3 312 1699 / +64 275 829 986 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org http://indica-et-buddhica.org http://camera-antipodea.indica-et-buddhica.com From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Fri Nov 5 11:57:05 2010 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Fri, 05 Nov 10 12:57:05 +0100 Subject: GRETIL update #380 Message-ID: <161227090731.23782.13539717173513645958.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 576 Lines: 23 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Rgveda, Padapatha text , Mandala 9 (revised) __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From andreaacri at MAC.COM Fri Nov 5 14:23:34 2010 From: andreaacri at MAC.COM (Andrea Acri) Date: Fri, 05 Nov 10 15:23:34 +0100 Subject: Enquiry with regard to colour symbolism in Hindu Traditions Message-ID: <161227090733.23782.8167408301395699667.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 293 Lines: 11 An interesting study on colour symbolism in Indo-Javanese culture is L.C. Damais, ?tudes javanaises III; A propos des couleurs symboliques des points cardinaux, BEFEO 56 (1969), pp. 75?118. http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/issue/befeo_0336-1519_1969_num_56_1 Andrea Acri From mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM Sun Nov 7 01:56:31 2010 From: mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Sat, 06 Nov 10 21:56:31 -0400 Subject: Manuscript Images from Manipur Message-ID: <161227090735.23782.16263346317217434673.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 342 Lines: 10 A friend of mine recently shared some pictures of a Manipuri manuscript collect with me. The pictures are available online on FLICKER and are open to view for all. I thought they might be of interest to someone and am sharing the link below; http://www.flickr.com/photos/mhmolinaro/sets/72157605042901979/show/ Best wishes. Mrinal Kaul From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA Mon Nov 8 14:18:24 2010 From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 10 09:18:24 -0500 Subject: Movie Premier: India Documentary - 'Mountain God and Sacred Text' by McComas Taylor In-Reply-To: <4CD76415.70004@anu.edu.au> Message-ID: <161227090741.23782.5297517182624140331.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 241 Lines: 16 Great! But could you please give some more information about the film? I could only see the poster. Thanks Stella -- Stella Sandahl ssandahl at sympatico.ca On 7-Nov-10, at 9:44 PM, McComas Taylor wrote: > From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA Mon Nov 8 15:30:02 2010 From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 10 10:30:02 -0500 Subject: Movie Premier: India Documentary - 'Mountain God and Sacred Text' by McComas Taylor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090748.23782.4351529552031156711.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 778 Lines: 44 Thanks, but there is no link in what I received, just the poster. Please send it again! Stella -- Stella Sandahl ssandahl at sympatico.ca On 8-Nov-10, at 10:02 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > I clicked on the link given and was transferred to Youtube, where > part 1 of > the film began to play. It was all successful and trouble free. > Part 2 > etc. can be selected easily. > > Best, > Dominik > > > On 8 November 2010 15:18, Stella Sandahl > wrote: > >> Great! But could you please give some more information about the >> film? I >> could only see the poster. >> Thanks >> Stella >> -- >> Stella Sandahl >> ssandahl at sympatico.ca >> >> >> >> On 7-Nov-10, at 9:44 PM, McComas Taylor wrote: >> >> >>> >> > From mccomas.taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Mon Nov 8 02:44:37 2010 From: mccomas.taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 10 13:44:37 +1100 Subject: Movie Premier: India Documentary - 'Mountain God and Sacred Text' by McComas Taylor Message-ID: <161227090738.23782.18308987595504594660.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1690 Lines: 54 logo Dear Friends We are pleased to invite you to view our new documentary 'Mountain God and Sacred Text'. This 35min documentary is now available online in three parts at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC0Uw_lnhYg * About the film: *We set out to document a seven-day festival that was held in the hamlet of Naluna in the Garhwal Himalaya, India, in November 2009. The festival centred on the sacred text of the Bhagavatapurana which tells the story of the beloved Indian deity, Krishna. The festival was conducted under the auspices of the local village deity Kandar. Our film captures the sights and sounds of this beautiful mountain community, as well as the fascinating interaction between the story-telling tradition from the North Indian plain, and Kandar, the village god. My cameraman and editor Julian Dennis and I have worked long and hard on this film, and we look forward to reading your feedback on Youtube. Please circulate this message as widely as possible. With thanks in advance McComas PS - apologies for multiple postings. -- =============================== Dr McComas Taylor Head, South Asia Program College of Asia and the Pacific The Australian National University ACTON ACT 0200 Tel: +61 2 6125 3179 Fax: +61 2 6125 8326 Email: mccomas.taylor at anu.edu.au http://tinyurl.com/38cj94n Location: Room E4.24 Baldessin Precinct Building -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mt_god_sacred_text.gif Type: image/gif Size: 68156 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Mon Nov 8 14:31:53 2010 From: hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (James Hegarty) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 10 14:31:53 +0000 Subject: Thank you Message-ID: <161227090743.23782.11540704927387298396.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 281 Lines: 17 Dear All, I would like to thank all those scholars who responded to my enquiry with regard to colour symbolism. As a new member, this was my first question posed to the list and what a fantastic response! So thank you all. Best Wishes, James Hegarty Cardiff University From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Nov 8 15:02:25 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 10 16:02:25 +0100 Subject: Movie Premier: India Documentary - 'Mountain God and Sacred Text' by McComas Taylor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090745.23782.5776234514478584850.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 536 Lines: 28 I clicked on the link given and was transferred to Youtube, where part 1 of the film began to play. It was all successful and trouble free. Part 2 etc. can be selected easily. Best, Dominik On 8 November 2010 15:18, Stella Sandahl wrote: > Great! But could you please give some more information about the film? I > could only see the poster. > Thanks > Stella > -- > Stella Sandahl > ssandahl at sympatico.ca > > > > On 7-Nov-10, at 9:44 PM, McComas Taylor wrote: > > >> > From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Mon Nov 8 22:21:00 2010 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 10 17:21:00 -0500 Subject: New EJVS: Mantra Index to Hir.Sr.S. Message-ID: <161227090754.23782.5743377910971848560.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 877 Lines: 43 Dear All, we are glad to inform you that a new issue of the Electronic Journal of Vedic Studies has just been released, Vol. 17, Issue 1 (Nov. 2010) Mantra List of the Hira?yake?i ?rautas?tra --Addition to "A Vedic Concordance"--- by Makoto Fushimi. Download by hitting: VOL. 17 (2010), ISSUE 1 (November) NB: Four Issues following shortly, on: Early Indian art on a Bronze Age Siberian mirror; The Rgvedic Sarasvati as warrior goddess; The Harappan and later Unicorn, Vedic Gotras and Brahmanical movement to the South... Cheers, Michael ============ Michael Witzel witzel at fas.harvard.edu Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University 1 Bow Street, Cambridge MA 02138, USA phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; my direct line: 617- 496 2990 From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Nov 8 16:24:59 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 10 17:24:59 +0100 Subject: Movie Premier: India Documentary - 'Mountain God and Sacred Text' by McComas Taylor In-Reply-To: <4CD76415.70004@anu.edu.au> Message-ID: <161227090750.23782.13645962631251669431.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2473 Lines: 75 Several people have had difficulty with this posting, for reasons I don't understand. The post is archived, of course, and can be consulted here(or, in full, here: http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind1011&L=indology&D=1&O=D&F=P&X=45F718703A195F2493&P=3505) I've checked the Youtube link there, and it works fine. Best, Dominik ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: McComas Taylor Date: 8 November 2010 03:44 Subject: Movie Premier: India Documentary - 'Mountain God and Sacred Text' by McComas Taylor To: mccomas.taylor at anu.edu.au [image: logo] Dear Friends We are pleased to invite you to view our new documentary 'Mountain God and Sacred Text'. This 35min documentary is now available online in three parts at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC0Uw_lnhYg * About the film: *We set out to document a seven-day festival that was held in the hamlet of Naluna in the Garhwal Himalaya, India, in November 2009. The festival centred on the sacred text of the Bhagavatapurana which tells the story of the beloved Indian deity, Krishna. The festival was conducted under the auspices of the local village deity Kandar. Our film captures the sights and sounds of this beautiful mountain community, as well as the fascinating interaction between the story-telling tradition from the North Indian plain, and Kandar, the village god. My cameraman and editor Julian Dennis and I have worked long and hard on this film, and we look forward to reading your feedback on Youtube. Please circulate this message as widely as possible. With thanks in advance McComas PS - apologies for multiple postings. -- =============================== Dr McComas Taylor Head, South Asia Program College of Asia and the Pacific The Australian National University ACTON ACT 0200 Tel: +61 2 6125 3179 Fax: +61 2 6125 8326 Email: mccomas.taylor at anu.edu.auhttp://tinyurl.com/38cj94n Location: Room E4.24 Baldessin Precinct Building -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mt_god_sacred_text.gif Type: image/gif Size: 68156 bytes Desc: not available URL: From franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Tue Nov 9 19:12:29 2010 From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE (Eli Franco) Date: Tue, 09 Nov 10 20:12:29 +0100 Subject: Publication announcement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090757.23782.4042930377930793235.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 539 Lines: 19 >?From Turfan to Ajanta. Festschrift for Dieter Schlingloff on the Occasion of his Eightieth Birthday. Ed. by Eli Franco and Monika Zin. Lumbini International Research Institute 2010. 2 Vols (72 articles, 1103 pages). I enclose the table of contents. With best wishes, EF -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Tableofcontents.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 105544 bytes Desc: not available URL: From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Nov 10 21:06:43 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 10 16:06:43 -0500 Subject: Purana/All-India Kashiraj Trust In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F15135F2D6B@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227090760.23782.9383259621587938379.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 550 Lines: 19 Ms. Jyotika Bhambri of the Library of Congress New Delhi Overseas Office tells me that Dr. Pathak says that Vol.48, 2006 and Vol.49, 2007 have been published and they have sent them to the Office. So it appears that Peter's library has the last volume available. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM Fri Nov 12 08:33:33 2010 From: harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM (Harsha Dehejia) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 10 03:33:33 -0500 Subject: Krishna as Vishnu Message-ID: <161227090762.23782.203883208086342117.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 341 Lines: 17 Friends~ In Gaudiya Vashanavism of Bengal Krishna is regarded not as an incarnation of Vishnu but Vishnu himself. I believe Rupa Goswami refers to that in his writings. Can anyone please give me a reference? Regards. Harsha Prof.Harsha V. Dehejia Professor of Indian Studies, Carleton University Ottawa,ON., Canada. From whitakjl at WFU.EDU Fri Nov 12 13:43:07 2010 From: whitakjl at WFU.EDU (Jarrod L Whitaker) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 10 08:43:07 -0500 Subject: Atha Vajapeyah Somayagah: The Vajapeya Sacrifice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090769.23782.2923310164253043892.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1022 Lines: 42 Does anyone know how I can get hold of a copy of the film: Atha Vajapeyah Somayagah: The Vajapeya Sacrifice produced by J.A.B. van Buitenen, 1955. My inter-library loan people sent me this message: "We have exhausted all possible ILL sources. There are no libraries that own this item that are ILL suppliers. Additionally, I have conducted online research and have been unable to locate the film as cited." I would really appreciate it if someone could loan me a copy or let me know whether such a film exists or not. Cheers JLW -- *Jarrod L. Whitaker, Ph.D.* Assistant Professor, South Asian Religions Wake Forest University Department of Religion PO Box 7212 Winston-Salem, NC, 27109 Email whitakjl at wfu.edu Tel: 336.758.4162 Fax: 336.758.4462 wfu_logo -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: wfusignature.gif Type: image/gif Size: 2270 bytes Desc: not available URL: From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU Fri Nov 12 14:14:50 2010 From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John C. Huntington) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 10 09:14:50 -0500 Subject: Siddham seal (edited) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090772.23782.2484415240105311231.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2115 Lines: 62 Dear Jonathan et al, I have edited the Taiping seal to an enhanced grayscale image that may assist with the reading. It may (or may not) help with the reading It is certainly outside of my knowledge of Siddham John On Nov 12, 2010, at 4:22 AM, Jonathan Silk wrote: > dear Colleagues, > > A colleague, an art historian working on China, has asked me about a seal on > a Tang period document connected to the Taiping princess, daughter of the > legendary Wu Zetian. (The seal may have belonged to Taiping's second > husband, Wu Yanxiu, a nephew of Empress Wu and thus a cousin of Taiping) It > appears to me that the seal is in Siddham, and the last ak?ara is ma, the > previous one having a long ? m?tra. More than that I am (even more) unsure > of. I am wondering if one of the cyber-gurus can read this. Several Chinese > sources seem to suggest that it might refer to sa?yak-sa?buddha, but looking > myself at the seal, I don't see how that can possibly be the case. I regret > I do not have a really good photo, but perhaps the attached will enable > someone experienced in such decipherment to help? > > very best, jonathan > > > -- > J. Silk > Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden > Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS > Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 > Doelensteeg 16 > 2311 VL Leiden > The Netherlands > > > -- > BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 1113179594) is spam: > Spam: https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=1113179594&m=d6c3c50a74f0&c=s > Not spam: https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=1113179594&m=d6c3c50a74f0&c=n > Forget vote: https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=1113179594&m=d6c3c50a74f0&c=f > ------------------------------------------------------ > END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot2010-11-12at9.07.33AM.jpg Type: image/jpg Size: 56763 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Fri Nov 12 09:22:43 2010 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 10 10:22:43 +0100 Subject: Siddham seal Message-ID: <161227090765.23782.9056130906788673359.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1271 Lines: 32 dear Colleagues, A colleague, an art historian working on China, has asked me about a seal on a Tang period document connected to the Taiping princess, daughter of the legendary Wu Zetian. (The seal may have belonged to Taiping's second husband, Wu Yanxiu, a nephew of Empress Wu and thus a cousin of Taiping) It appears to me that the seal is in Siddham, and the last ak?ara is ma, the previous one having a long ? m?tra. More than that I am (even more) unsure of. I am wondering if one of the cyber-gurus can read this. Several Chinese sources seem to suggest that it might refer to sa?yak-sa?buddha, but looking myself at the seal, I don't see how that can possibly be the case. I regret I do not have a really good photo, but perhaps the attached will enable someone experienced in such decipherment to help? very best, jonathan -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Taipingseal.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 84950 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Nov 12 17:29:26 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 10 18:29:26 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Fwd:_Panjal,______________once_again_the_venue_for_=E2=80=98Athirathram_'?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090775.23782.16485768213800689972.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3856 Lines: 131 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Santhosh Thannikat Date: 12 November 2010 18:05 Subject: Panjal, once again the venue for ?Athirathram' To: wujastyk at gmail.com Dear Dr Wujastyk, *I wish you all look into the last line of the news and help the organisers to be in touch with any scientific agencies which might be interested in conducting a study / research on the effect of the ritual.* Here is the link to the report from Hindu BusinessLine Panjal, a sleepy village in Kerala's Thrissur district, will once again be the venue for ?Athirathram,' considered the oldest Vedic ritual in the world. This will be hosted by the Ottappalam-based Varthathe Trust from April 4-15 at the vicinity of Panjal Lakshmi Narayana Temple. Universal harmony Considered the ultimate invocation of Vedic scriptures for universal harmony, Athirathram 2011 aims to promote universal harmony and spiritual enlightenment. Preparations According to the organisers, preparations for the ritual are in full swing as it requires abundance of resources and human endeavour. Expenses The expenses are estimated to touch Rs 1 crore and the organisers are expecting at least 15,000 people to witness the rituals daily. Panjal was the venue for Athirathram held in 1975 under the leadership of the US Harvard and Berkeley Universities and Finland's Helsinki University. Venue The event made global headlines for its message of peace, universal oneness and solidarity. The choice of Panjal, as the venue for Athirathram 2011, is in line with geographic and Vaasthu principles. The ?Yagashala' (where the ceremonies will be performed) is uniquely positioned to imbibe the energy of the sun, which has made Panjal the venue for almost key yagas in Kerala in the past. Panjal is also in close proximity to the Edappal Shukapuram Temple, regarded the epicentre of all Yaga rituals. The Athirathram cuts through all barriers ? caste, religion, race, colour and sex ? making it a true union of humanity to invoke the bounty of universal energy to promote solidarity and peace. *The organisers are also planning to approach the scientific community to study the various effects of the ritual on the atmosphere and surroundings.* ******************************************** For further readings: 1. Namboothiri.com website and its pages: http://www.namboothiri.com/somayaagam/ 2. Athirathram site by ametuer enthusiats: http://www.athirathram.org/ 3. Today's Hindu newspaper link : may not work later: 4. Original DVD of 1975 Panjal Athirathram from USA http://www.der.org/films/altar-of-fire.html Some part of the same is available in YouTube : http://www.youtube.com/user/dunlope07 5. Who is Frits Staal ? http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/people/detail/29 or also look into http://www.fritsstaalberkeley.com/ 6. The tradition of Vedic Chanting - listed in the World Intangible heritage List http://www.unesco.org/culture/ich/index.php?pg=00011&RL=00062 7. The (7) above in YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPcasmn0cRU&feature=player_embedded Thank you Warm regards Santhosh TP Thannikattillam, Kumaranalloor, Kottayam - 686 016 Res No: 0481 - 2397 108 Per. Mob: +91 - 94463 89679 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GoogleTalk: santhosh.thannikat at gmail.com -- Thank you Warm regards Santhosh Thannikat ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thannikattillam, Kumaranalloor, Kottayam - 686 016 Res No: 0481 - 2397 108 Mob: +91 - 94463 89679 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GoogleTalk: santhosh.thannikat at gmail.com From whitakjl at WFU.EDU Sat Nov 13 13:38:12 2010 From: whitakjl at WFU.EDU (Jarrod L Whitaker) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 10 08:38:12 -0500 Subject: Atha Vajapeyah Somayagah: The Vajapeya Sacrifice Message-ID: <161227090777.23782.3177302845370701283.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 646 Lines: 23 Sorry for the repeated message, but my original post didn't display the actual text. Does anyone know how I can get hold of a copy of the film: Atha Vajapeyah Somayagah: The Vajapeya Sacrifice produced by J.A.B. van Buitenen, 1955. My inter-library loan people sent me this message: "We have exhausted all possible ILL sources. There are no libraries that own this item that are ILL suppliers. Additionally, I have conducted online research and have been unable to locate the film as cited." I would really appreciate it if someone could loan me a copy or let me know whether such a film exists or not. Cheers JLW Wake Forest University From lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO Sun Nov 14 18:44:55 2010 From: lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 10 19:44:55 +0100 Subject: Potential misunderstanding Message-ID: <161227090779.23782.11075087503428674071.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1509 Lines: 48 Dear list! George Thompson has recently published a critique of my translation of the Bhagavad Gita which contains a possibly misleading piece of information. Thompson brackets my translation in the New Age category, thereby potentially creating the impression that I myself am a supporter of New Age religiosity. I am nothing of the sort. I am in no way involved with New Age. My translation was published by a small American publisher specialising in Yoga texts. The series also contains the Hatha Yoga Pradipika, translated by Brian Dana Akers, as well as the Shiva Samhita and the Gheranda Samhita, both translated by James Mallinson. More to follow. The books mostly have the same format: a short, popular introduction, the Sanskrit text with interlinear translation, an index. There are no bibliographies, no comments, no critical apparatus and no footnotes. The editions are partly intended for the mass market, partly for students of Sanskrit and others who would like to read the text with an interlinear translation, or simply have quick access to the Sanskrit source. Thus, they have been stripped down to the bare essentials. I personally find it difficult to associate these editions with New Age, but everybody can be the judge of that. Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse From: Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo - Norway Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 E-mail: lmfosse at getmail.no From athr at LOC.GOV Mon Nov 15 21:56:27 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 10 16:56:27 -0500 Subject: seer of new Vedic hymns Message-ID: <161227090781.23782.10976665933377569772.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1420 Lines: 27 A few weeks ago I posted some remarks on the Indo-Eurasian list about claims to have 'seen' or 'heard' new scriptures or long-lost ancient texts. One person got back to me privately asking further information: "I was reading some messages about the Pranava-Vada when I came across an exchange you wrote here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Indo-Eurasian_research/message/14306 In that exchange, you said "There was a man who gave a talk at the Dept. of Sanskrit, Poona University during my first stay of 1969-70, who claimed to have seen new Vedic hymns, which had been published in a nice format. I can't recall his name. Punditji (S.D. Joshi) admitted that the language was Vedic but was not an adherent."" No one added anything on Indo-Eurasian about who this man was, and various search strategies on our OPAC and Google have turned up nothing. Does anyone on this list remember the man, his name, and perhaps the title of the collection of new hymns? Apparently "nice format" was ambiguous. I meant not that they existed in an attractive manuscript but they had been printed and published in one or more well-got-up volumes. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Tue Nov 16 08:00:25 2010 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 10 00:00:25 -0800 Subject: seer of new Vedic hymns In-Reply-To: <12467_1289858249_1289858249_1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F15154DE3BF@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227090783.23782.7289155533266284680.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 912 Lines: 21 Dear Allen, The pressure of other commitments is keeping me away from participating in some of the list discussions. The information you need is probably: Daivaraata Brahmar.si. 1968. Chando-dar;sanam daivaraataar.seyam. ;Srii-kaavya-ka.n.tha-ga.na-pati-muni-viracita-vaasi.s.thaanvaya-bhaa.sye.na pari.sk.rtam. Bombay: Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan. Later on, the same 'seer' person probably edited the following collection of Vedic passages bearing on vaac. Daivaraata, Brahmar.si/Mahar.si. 1971 = sa.mvat 2028. Vaak Sudhaa. Calcutta: Madana-gopaala Poddaara Cairi.tii .Tras?a [= Charity Trust]. ashok On 2010-11-15, at 1:56 PM, Thrasher, Allen wrote: > > No one added anything on Indo-Eurasian about who this man was, and various search strategies on our OPAC and Google have turned up nothing. Does anyone on this list remember the man, his name, and perhaps the title of the collection of new hymns? From bb145 at COLUMBIA.EDU Tue Nov 16 16:07:45 2010 From: bb145 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Bindu Bhatt) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 10 11:07:45 -0500 Subject: Gangajala Vidyapeeth In-Reply-To: <259D2C5B210F304AB8B734030D5F54CB79269BDA70@post> Message-ID: <161227090794.23782.2519779631400292440.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 820 Lines: 28 The nearest Railway station is Aliabad. It is in Jamnagar, Gujarat and the postal code is: 361110 Jamnagar has an airport, also. Best, Bindu Kenneth Zysk wrote: > I am looking for the exact location and nearest railway station to the Gangajala Vidyapeeth, Aliyavada, Gujarat. > Please respond to me on my private email. > Many thanks. > > Kenneth Zysk > Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies > University of Copenhagen > Asian Studies Section > Artillerivej 86 > DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark > Ph: +45 3532 8951 Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bb145.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 344 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Tue Nov 16 12:15:07 2010 From: hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (James Hegarty) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 10 12:15:07 +0000 Subject: Raining Blood: rudhiravar=?UTF-8?Q?=E1=B9=A3a?= Message-ID: <161227090788.23782.12835837639426078614.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 481 Lines: 21 Dear Colleagues, Has anyone come across this term (rudhiravar?a) outside of the war books of the Mah?bh?rata? I am especially interested where it occurs as a portent of future violence etc. I am aware of its use in Buddhist accounts of the birth of Aj?ta?atru, but that is about it! I have the w?rterbuch entry, but the information here is somewhat lacking in context, by its very nature. Can anyone help me? With All Best Wishes, James Hegarty Cardiff University From bb145 at COLUMBIA.EDU Tue Nov 16 17:30:23 2010 From: bb145 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Bindu Bhatt) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 10 12:30:23 -0500 Subject: Raining Blood: rudhiravar=?UTF-8?Q?=E1=B9=A3a?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090799.23782.15189564851681184600.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 920 Lines: 33 I remember seeing it in "Susruta Samhita" or "caraka samhita". Perhaps it was with reference to use of caustics (Ksara). Thanks, Bindu Bhatt James Hegarty wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > Has anyone come across this term (rudhiravar?a) outside of the war > books of the Mah?bh?rata? > > I am especially interested where it occurs as a portent of future > violence etc. I am aware of its use in Buddhist accounts of the birth > of Aj?ta?atru, but that is about it! > > I have the w?rterbuch entry, but the information here is somewhat > lacking in context, by its very nature. > > Can anyone help me? > > With All Best Wishes, > > James Hegarty > Cardiff University > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bb145.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 344 bytes Desc: not available URL: From asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI Tue Nov 16 12:47:01 2010 From: asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI (Asko Parpola) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 10 14:47:01 +0200 Subject: Raining Blood: rudhiravar=?utf-8?Q?=E1=B9=A3a?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090790.23782.16913799606070167373.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 893 Lines: 33 In RaamaayaNa 3,22,1 "a rumbling storm cloud" (mahaameghas tumulo), "ruddy as the wild ass" (gardabhaaruNaH, not "mule-gray" as translated by Pollock 1990: III,133), "rained water red as blood" (zoNitodakam abhyavarSat). This is one of many ominous portents mentioned in this context. Best regards, Asko Parpola Quoting "James Hegarty" : > Dear Colleagues, > > Has anyone come across this term (rudhiravar?a) outside of the war > books of the Mah?bh?rata? > > I am especially interested where it occurs as a portent of future > violence etc. I am aware of its use in Buddhist accounts of the > birth of Aj?ta?atru, but that is about it! > > I have the w?rterbuch entry, but the information here is somewhat > lacking in context, by its very nature. > > Can anyone help me? > > With All Best Wishes, > > James Hegarty > Cardiff University > > From somadevah at MAC.COM Tue Nov 16 19:51:10 2010 From: somadevah at MAC.COM (Som Dev Vasudeva) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 10 14:51:10 -0500 Subject: Raining Blood: rudhiravar=?utf-8?Q?=E1=B9=A3a?= In-Reply-To: <1BDACA4F-8B83-46F8-A508-46F7E681FF5B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227090802.23782.12246511750558896774.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2609 Lines: 50 Some further references worth pursing: Atharvavedapari?i??as.txt:3860: (AVParis_72,3.4) rajovar?am upalavar?a? dadhimadhugh?tak??ravar?a? majj?rudhira var?ati / The same but cited with variants in the Kau?ikapaddhati :13870:yadapi pari?i??e?u pa?hyate sarve g?he pravi??e sarvamev?lpaka? d???v? sarvasammito v?yu? sambhrame udakapr?durbh?ve gamane?u dhanu?sandhyolk?? parive??? vidyudda????aniparipraparigh?rddhe nirgh?te rajovar?a-upalavar?adak?imadhugh?tavar?amajj?rudhiravar?atih?nagabhast? dve m?rge vidyut vittak?aye somasya k?aye p?r?ap?ra?e k?ayasyavabh?s? sadyoparar?tr?di digd?hopadh?panagrahavai?amyam?roha?am?krama?a? gandharvanagaram?rutaprakopa? tithikara?amuh?rtanak?atrayogadhruvakak?ni grah?d?n?? samaviyoga? / R?m?ya?a 6.115.22ab: rajovar?a? samudbh?ta? pa?ya v?lukin?? prati / R?jatara?gi?? of ?r?vara 1:1059: v???y? saha rajovar?am apatad gagan?d bhuvi / There are also substantial discussions of clouds in works of K??i??stra see Wojtilla, Gyula, 2006 ?History of Kr?s?i??stra, a History of Indian Literature on Traditional Agriculture.? One such work I recently had the fortune to read that has abundant discussions of seasonal rainfall and prognostication was the K??ikarmavivecana. It seemed quite closely related to the little studied genre of ?Tantric meteorology? such as can be found in the Bhairav?yamegham?l?, that it might even be best identified as a separate genre: Tantric agriculture (?). I remember seeing an MS of this in the Wellcome Institute in London but cannot now find my photocopies of it. Best, Somadeva Vasudeva On Nov 16, 2010, at 12:05 PM, Bill Mak wrote: > For portents, your best source would be a jyoti?a text like B?hatsa?h?ta. I recall reading something about strange rain and bloody water. Try Ch.45 utp?t?dhy?ya? and you may find something there. > > Good luck! > > Bill M. Mak > > University of Kyoto > Graduate School of Humanities, Faculty of Letters > Department of Indological Studies > Yoshida-Honmachi, Sakyo-ku, > Kyoto, 606-8501, Japan > > bill.m.mak at gmail.com > > On 2010/11/16, at 21:15, James Hegarty wrote: > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> Has anyone come across this term (rudhiravar?a) outside of the war books of the Mah?bh?rata? >> >> I am especially interested where it occurs as a portent of future violence etc. I am aware of its use in Buddhist accounts of the birth of Aj?ta?atru, but that is about it! >> >> I have the w?rterbuch entry, but the information here is somewhat lacking in context, by its very nature. >> >> Can anyone help me? >> >> With All Best Wishes, >> >> James Hegarty >> Cardiff University From zysk at HUM.KU.DK Tue Nov 16 15:40:01 2010 From: zysk at HUM.KU.DK (Kenneth Zysk) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 10 16:40:01 +0100 Subject: Gangajala Vidyapeeth In-Reply-To: <20101116144701.37985mcre4ix92dh.aparpola@webmail.helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <161227090792.23782.10688680581143286260.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 385 Lines: 15 I am looking for the exact location and nearest railway station to the Gangajala Vidyapeeth, Aliyavada, Gujarat. Please respond to me on my private email. Many thanks. Kenneth Zysk Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Asian Studies Section Artillerivej 86 DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark Ph: +45 3532 8951 Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk From mnstorm at MAC.COM Tue Nov 16 11:44:32 2010 From: mnstorm at MAC.COM (Mary Storm) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 10 17:14:32 +0530 Subject: Request from a student Message-ID: <161227090785.23782.9232188691844517547.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1347 Lines: 28 Dear All, I have a student this term who is doing a research project on the perceptions of "Aryanism" by the Hindu political right in contemporary India. She is interested in how this plays out in national identity politics. She asked if I could put this to you all and see if anyone is willing to swim in these murky waters: If it's possible, I would appreciate it if you would be willing to share any archived threads related to this topic, especially those with intrusions from pro-Hindutva nationalists. I would also be grateful to hear any of your related thoughts, concerns, or research advice, even if it's something small. One specific area in which I would appreciate your thoughts is the basic question of why the concept of Aryan Identity is concerning. Apart from the simple matter of there being little historical evidence to support their claim, why should anyone care that Hindu nationalists cling to the idea of the "Arya" as an indigenous Indian civilization? What does it mean for the rest of India, or the rest of the world? Many Thanks to anyone willing to help! Mary Mary Storm, Ph.D. Academic Director and Lecturer India: National Identity and the Arts and Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture SIT Study Abroad http://www.sit.edu/studyabroad F 301 Lado Sarai New Delhi 110030 India Mobile: +91 98106 98003 From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Tue Nov 16 20:17:48 2010 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (gthomgt at COMCAST.NET) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 10 20:17:48 +0000 Subject: Potential misunderstanding In-Reply-To: <483930975.1031709.1289938529204.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <161227090804.23782.10495849247455891680.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3472 Lines: 74 Dear List, Lars Martin and I have had a private and?amicable?discussion of this matter.? It appears that some of the features of his edition of the Gita which I cited in my brief book notice were imposed by his editor and should not be attributed to Lars Martin himself.? I make it clear in the note that I consider Lars Martin a good Sanskritist and that his interpretation of the Gita is a reliable one.? I note? a couple of passages where the translation is not quite accurate, as well as one sloka [3.15] where lines cd are lost.? Other than such minor things, my main point was?about the sociolinguistic register of both the introduction and the translation: the diction seemed to me to be too colloquial.? Another feature of the book which struck me as inconsistent was its fetishization of devanagari on the book's covers [multi-colored devanagari everywhere!].? While I have no argument with the use of devanagari?in this edition, I do think that it is inconsistent pedagogy?to dismiss accurate transliteration of it?both in the introduction and the translation?[in the introduction, accurate, standard,?transliteration is abruptly dismissed as "ugly"].? In any case, I acknowledge the fact that Lars Martin is no New Ager.? May any and all?misunderstandings be hereby dispelled. George Thompson p.s.? By the way, in his personal communication with me, Lars Martin states that he plans to send a copy of my book notice to his editor, in order to persuade him to trust more in Lars Martin's own scholarly instincts in the future.? Also, let it be noted that this book notice also discusses [positively]?Angelika Malinar's 2007 book: The Bhagavad Gita: Doctrines and Contexts, Cambridge Univ. Press. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lars Martin Fosse" < lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 1:44:55 PM Subject: [INDOLOGY] Potential misunderstanding Dear list! ? George Thompson has recently published a critique of my translation of the Bhagavad Gita which contains a possibly misleading piece of information. Thompson brackets my translation in the New Age category, thereby potentially creating the impression that I myself am a supporter of New Age religiosity. I am nothing of the sort. I am in no way involved with New Age. ?? ? ? ? ? ?My translation was published by a small American publisher specialising in Yoga texts. The series also contains the Hatha Yoga Pradipika, translated by Brian Dana Akers, as well as the Shiva Samhita and the Gheranda Samhita, both translated by James Mallinson. More to follow. The books mostly have the same format: a short, popular introduction, the Sanskrit text with interlinear translation, an index. There are no bibliographies, no comments, no critical apparatus and no footnotes. The editions are partly intended for the mass market, partly for students of Sanskrit and others who would like to read the text with an interlinear translation, or simply have quick access to the Sanskrit source. Thus, they have been stripped down to the bare essentials. I personally find it difficult to associate these editions with New Age, but everybody can be the judge of that. ? Best regards, ? Lars Martin Fosse ? From: Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo - Norway Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: ?+47 850 21 250 Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 E-mail: lmfosse at getmail.no ? ? From m.b.jones at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU Wed Nov 17 03:12:17 2010 From: m.b.jones at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (Michael Brattus Jones) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 10 21:12:17 -0600 Subject: Raining Blood: rudhiravar=?utf-8?Q?=E1=B9=A3a?= Message-ID: <161227090811.23782.14845792315104741250.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3405 Lines: 92 The specific text Prof. Vasudeva mentioned, the Kr??ikarmavivecana, is also known as Kr??ipaddhati, Kr??isa?graha, and the Kr??ipar??ara?. It is under the last of these names that a critical edition was published in 1960 by Girija Prasanna Majumdar and Sures Chandra Bannerji, through the Asiatic Society's Bibliotheca Indica (Work 285). I have a mostly un-proofed unicode transliteration that I'd be happy to share, although a preliminary search for specifically red rains came up dry. Yours, Mike B. Jones (theojijo at yahoo.com) PhD student, UT Austin From: Som Dev Vasudeva To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Tue, November 16, 2010 1:51:10 PM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Raining Blood: rudhiravar?a Some further references worth pursing: Atharvavedapari?i??as.txt:3860: (AVParis_72,3.4) rajovar?am upalavar?a? dadhimadhugh?tak??ravar?a? majj?rudhira var?ati / The same but cited with variants in the Kau?ikapaddhati :13870:yadapi pari?i??e?u pa?hyate sarve g?he pravi??e sarvamev?lpaka? d???v? sarvasammito v?yu? sambhrame udakapr?durbh?ve gamane?u dhanu?sandhyolk?? parive??? vidyudda????aniparipraparigh?rddhe nirgh?te rajovar?a-upalavar?adak?imadhugh?tavar?amajj?rudhiravar?atih?nagabhast? dve m?rge vidyut vittak?aye somasya k?aye p?r?ap?ra?e k?ayasyavabh?s? sadyoparar?tr?di digd?hopadh?panagrahavai?amyam?roha?am?krama?a? gandharvanagaram?rutaprakopa? tithikara?amuh?rtanak?atrayogadhruvakak?ni grah?d?n?? samaviyoga? / R?m?ya?a 6.115.22ab: rajovar?a? samudbh?ta? pa?ya v?lukin?? prati / R?jatara?gi?? of ?r?vara 1:1059: v???y? saha rajovar?am apatad gagan?d bhuvi / There are also substantial discussions of clouds in works of K??i??stra see Wojtilla, Gyula, 2006 ?History of Kr?s?i??stra, a History of Indian Literature on Traditional Agriculture.? One such work I recently had the fortune to read that has abundant discussions of seasonal rainfall and prognostication was the K??ikarmavivecana. It seemed quite closely related to the little studied genre of ?Tantric meteorology? such as can be found in the Bhairav?yamegham?l?, that it might even be best identified as a separate genre: Tantric agriculture (?). I remember seeing an MS of this in the Wellcome Institute in London but cannot now find my photocopies of it. Best, Somadeva Vasudeva On Nov 16, 2010, at 12:05 PM, Bill Mak wrote: > For portents, your best source would be a jyoti?a text like > B?hatsa?h?ta. I recall reading something about strange rain and > bloody water. Try Ch.45 utp?t?dhy?ya? and you may find something > there. > > Good luck! > > Bill M. Mak > > University of Kyoto > Graduate School of Humanities, Faculty of Letters > Department of Indological Studies > Yoshida-Honmachi, Sakyo-ku, > Kyoto, 606-8501, Japan > > bill.m.mak at gmail.com > > On 2010/11/16, at 21:15, James Hegarty wrote: > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> Has anyone come across this term (rudhiravar?a) outside of the war >> books of the Mah?bh?rata? >> >> I am especially interested where it occurs as a portent of future >> violence etc. I am aware of its use in Buddhist accounts of the >> birth of Aj?ta?atru, but that is about it! >> >> I have the w?rterbuch entry, but the information here is somewhat >> lacking in context, by its very nature. >> >> Can anyone help me? >> >> With All Best Wishes, >> >> James Hegarty >> Cardiff University From lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO Tue Nov 16 21:54:29 2010 From: lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 10 22:54:29 +0100 Subject: Potential misunderstanding In-Reply-To: <598959006.1031325.1289938221441.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <161227090806.23782.4197985866269251129.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 438 Lines: 22 I would like thank George Thompson for shoring up my reputation as a rational man. As for the rest of his critique, I shall just have to accept it. Anyway, anybody can read the book if they care and form their own opinion. Lars Martin From: Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo - Norway Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 E-mail: lmfosse at getmail.no From lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO Tue Nov 16 21:55:12 2010 From: lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 10 22:55:12 +0100 Subject: Raining Blood: ru dhiravar=?UTF-8?Q?=E1=B9=A3a?= In-Reply-To: <1BDACA4F-8B83-46F8-A508-46F7E681FF5B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227090809.23782.520108575521719573.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1644 Lines: 66 For what it is worth, here is a scientific explanation of the phenomenon with some literary references: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_rain Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse From: Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo - Norway Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 E-mail: lmfosse at getmail.no > -----Original Message----- > From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Bill Mak > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 6:06 PM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Raining Blood: rudhiravar?a > > For portents, your best source would be a jyoti?a text like > B?hatsa?h?ta. I recall reading something about strange rain > and bloody water. Try Ch.45 utp?t?dhy?ya? and you may find > something there. > > Good luck! > > Bill M. Mak > > University of Kyoto > Graduate School of Humanities, Faculty of Letters Department > of Indological Studies Yoshida-Honmachi, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto, > 606-8501, Japan > > bill.m.mak at gmail.com > > On 2010/11/16, at 21:15, James Hegarty wrote: > > > Dear Colleagues, > > > > Has anyone come across this term (rudhiravar?a) outside of the war > > books of the Mah?bh?rata? > > > > I am especially interested where it occurs as a portent of future > > violence etc. I am aware of its use in Buddhist accounts of > the birth > > of Aj?ta?atru, but that is about it! > > > > I have the w?rterbuch entry, but the information here is somewhat > > lacking in context, by its very nature. > > > > Can anyone help me? > > > > With All Best Wishes, > > > > James Hegarty > > Cardiff University From bill.m.mak at GMAIL.COM Tue Nov 16 17:05:50 2010 From: bill.m.mak at GMAIL.COM (Bill Mak) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 10 02:05:50 +0900 Subject: Raining Blood: rudhiravar=?UTF-8?Q?=E1=B9=A3a?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090797.23782.14312558944980626455.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 967 Lines: 40 For portents, your best source would be a jyoti?a text like B?hatsa?h?ta. I recall reading something about strange rain and bloody water. Try Ch.45 utp?t?dhy?ya? and you may find something there. Good luck! Bill M. Mak University of Kyoto Graduate School of Humanities, Faculty of Letters Department of Indological Studies Yoshida-Honmachi, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto, 606-8501, Japan bill.m.mak at gmail.com On 2010/11/16, at 21:15, James Hegarty wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > Has anyone come across this term (rudhiravar?a) outside of the war > books of the Mah?bh?rata? > > I am especially interested where it occurs as a portent of future > violence etc. I am aware of its use in Buddhist accounts of the > birth of Aj?ta?atru, but that is about it! > > I have the w?rterbuch entry, but the information here is somewhat > lacking in context, by its very nature. > > Can anyone help me? > > With All Best Wishes, > > James Hegarty > Cardiff University From rpg at CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU Wed Nov 17 22:58:32 2010 From: rpg at CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU (Robert Goldman) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 10 14:58:32 -0800 Subject: Raining Blood: rudhiravar=?UTF-8?Q?=E1=B9=A3a?= In-Reply-To: <942A9715-03E4-4C1E-BC6A-91F9997E55E9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227090822.23782.14636592009408023547.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3861 Lines: 114 Although the exact terms vary, the raining of blood is mentioned frequently in the Yuddhak???a of the V?lm?kir?m?ya?a as one of the portents of calamity for the warrior to whom they appear. See the following verses in the critical edition: 6.26.22; 6.31.5; 6.41.33; 6.83.33; 6.94.15. The most common expression is vavar?a rudhiram... Dr. R. P. Goldman Professor of Sanskrit Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540 The University of California at Berkeley Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 Tel: 510-642-4089 Fax: 510-642-2409 On Nov 17, 2010, at 2:44 PM, Dominic Goodall wrote: > Raining blood (along with earthquakes, the weeping of images and > many other portents) is included in an account of Adbhuta??nti in > the P?rva-K?ra??gama (p. 714 of edition of 1921 [Kaliyuga 5023]): > > bh?mika?pe nad?k?obhe k?pak?obhe ta??kake| > pratim?rodane caiva tata? ?o?itavar?ake|| 144F:5|| > ? > > Dominic Goodall > > On 16-Nov-2010, at 8:51 PM, Som Dev Vasudeva wrote: > >> Some further references worth pursing: >> >> Atharvavedapari?i??as.txt:3860: (AVParis_72,3.4) rajovar?am >> upalavar?a? dadhimadhugh?tak??ravar?a? majj?rudhira >> var?ati / >> The same but cited with variants in the Kau?ikapaddhati : >> 13870:yadapi pari?i??e?u pa?hyate sarve g?he pravi??e >> sarvamev?lpaka? d???v? sarvasammito v?yu? sambhrame >> udakapr?durbh?ve gamane?u dhanu?sandhyolk?? parive??? >> vidyudda????aniparipraparigh?rddhe nirgh?te rajovar?a- >> upalavar?adak?imadhugh?tavar?amajj?rudhiravar?atih?nagabhast? >> dve m?rge vidyut vittak?aye somasya k?aye p?r?ap?ra?e >> k?ayasyavabh?s? sadyoparar?tr?di >> digd?hopadh?panagrahavai?amyam?roha?am?krama?a? >> gandharvanagaram?rutaprakopa? >> tithikara?amuh?rtanak?atrayogadhruvakak?ni grah?d?n?? >> samaviyoga? / >> >> R?m?ya?a 6.115.22ab: rajovar?a? samudbh?ta? pa?ya >> v?lukin?? prati / >> >> R?jatara?gi?? of ?r?vara 1:1059: v???y? saha >> rajovar?am apatad gagan?d bhuvi / >> >> There are also substantial discussions of clouds in works of >> K??i??stra see Wojtilla, Gyula, 2006 ?History of >> Kr?s?i??stra, a History of Indian Literature on Traditional >> Agriculture.? One such work I recently had the fortune to read >> that has abundant discussions of seasonal rainfall and >> prognostication was the K??ikarmavivecana. It seemed quite >> closely related to the little studied genre of ?Tantric >> meteorology? such as can be found in the Bhairav?yamegham?l?, >> that it might even be best identified as a separate genre: Tantric >> agriculture (?). I remember seeing an MS of this in the Wellcome >> Institute in London but cannot now find my photocopies of it. >> >> Best, >> >> Somadeva Vasudeva >> >> On Nov 16, 2010, at 12:05 PM, Bill Mak wrote: >> >>> For portents, your best source would be a jyoti?a text like >>> B?hatsa?h?ta. I recall reading something about strange rain >>> and bloody water. Try Ch.45 utp?t?dhy?ya? and you may find >>> something there. >>> >>> Good luck! >>> >>> Bill M. Mak >>> >>> University of Kyoto >>> Graduate School of Humanities, Faculty of Letters >>> Department of Indological Studies >>> Yoshida-Honmachi, Sakyo-ku, >>> Kyoto, 606-8501, Japan >>> >>> bill.m.mak at gmail.com >>> >>> On 2010/11/16, at 21:15, James Hegarty wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Colleagues, >>>> >>>> Has anyone come across this term (rudhiravar?a) outside of the >>>> war books of the Mah?bh?rata? >>>> >>>> I am especially interested where it occurs as a portent of future >>>> violence etc. I am aware of its use in Buddhist accounts of the >>>> birth of Aj?ta?atru, but that is about it! >>>> >>>> I have the w?rterbuch entry, but the information here is somewhat >>>> lacking in context, by its very nature. >>>> >>>> Can anyone help me? >>>> >>>> With All Best Wishes, >>>> >>>> James Hegarty >>>> Cardiff University From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Thu Nov 18 00:08:23 2010 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 10 16:08:23 -0800 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_Raining_Blood:_rudhiravar_=E1=B9=A3a?= In-Reply-To: <88A3AEFE-76AE-46EE-9574-B94BF9BB55CD@calmail.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227090825.23782.6837321616861914727.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4745 Lines: 107 >From the Kara? Vataip Pa?alam (?ra?iya K???am), Kampar?m?ya?am: 69. 3040 Hearing those words, a R?k?asa came whose name was Akampana, of great learning and one among them who had good to him, and he said, ?Lord! Let me say something. It is right to be very fierce in battle, O you who are most virile among all heroes! but around this action we pursue, there have been evil omens. 70. 3041 ?The clouds have been roaring, pouring down a very great rain of blood and the Sun God, look at him, he is surrounded by a halo! Notice how there are flocks of crows that hover above your flag and fight each other, fall, cry out, and fallen roll on the earth...." The relevant Tamil is: kuruti m? ma?ai corinta?a m?ka?ka? kumu?i No doubt there are other instances in Kampa?, since he was following V?lm?ki. I have not found anything in Sangam Literature. George Hart On Nov 17, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Robert Goldman wrote: > Although the exact terms vary, the raining of blood is mentioned frequently in the Yuddhak???a of the V?lm?kir?m?ya?a as one of the portents of calamity for the warrior to whom they appear. See the following verses in the critical edition: 6.26.22; 6.31.5; 6.41.33; 6.83.33; 6.94.15. The most common expression is vavar?a rudhiram... > Dr. R. P. Goldman > Professor of Sanskrit > Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies > MC # 2540 > The University of California at Berkeley > Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 > Tel: 510-642-4089 > Fax: 510-642-2409 > > > > > On Nov 17, 2010, at 2:44 PM, Dominic Goodall wrote: > >> Raining blood (along with earthquakes, the weeping of images and many other portents) is included in an account of Adbhuta??nti in the P?rva-K?ra??gama (p. 714 of edition of 1921 [Kaliyuga 5023]): >> >> bh?mika?pe nad?k?obhe k?pak?obhe ta??kake| >> pratim?rodane caiva tata? ?o?itavar?ake|| 144F:5|| >> ? >> >> Dominic Goodall >> >> On 16-Nov-2010, at 8:51 PM, Som Dev Vasudeva wrote: >> >>> Some further references worth pursing: >>> >>> Atharvavedapari?i??as.txt:3860: (AVParis_72,3.4) rajovar?am upalavar?a? dadhimadhugh?tak??ravar?a? majj?rudhira var?ati / >>> The same but cited with variants in the Kau?ikapaddhati :13870:yadapi pari?i??e?u pa?hyate sarve g?he pravi??e sarvamev?lpaka? d???v? sarvasammito v?yu? sambhrame udakapr?durbh?ve gamane?u dhanu?sandhyolk?? parive??? vidyudda????aniparipraparigh?rddhe nirgh?te rajovar?a-upalavar?adak?imadhugh?tavar?amajj?rudhiravar?atih?nagabhast? dve m?rge vidyut vittak?aye somasya k?aye p?r?ap?ra?e k?ayasyavabh?s? sadyoparar?tr?di digd?hopadh?panagrahavai?amyam?roha?am?krama?a? gandharvanagaram?rutaprakopa? tithikara?amuh?rtanak?atrayogadhruvakak?ni grah?d?n?? samaviyoga? / >>> >>> R?m?ya?a 6.115.22ab: rajovar?a? samudbh?ta? pa?ya v?lukin?? prati / >>> >>> R?jatara?gi?? of ?r?vara 1:1059: v???y? saha rajovar?am apatad gagan?d bhuvi / >>> >>> There are also substantial discussions of clouds in works of K??i??stra see Wojtilla, Gyula, 2006 ?History of Kr?s?i??stra, a History of Indian Literature on Traditional Agriculture.? One such work I recently had the fortune to read that has abundant discussions of seasonal rainfall and prognostication was the K??ikarmavivecana. It seemed quite closely related to the little studied genre of ?Tantric meteorology? such as can be found in the Bhairav?yamegham?l?, that it might even be best identified as a separate genre: Tantric agriculture (?). I remember seeing an MS of this in the Wellcome Institute in London but cannot now find my photocopies of it. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Somadeva Vasudeva >>> >>> On Nov 16, 2010, at 12:05 PM, Bill Mak wrote: >>> >>>> For portents, your best source would be a jyoti?a text like B?hatsa?h?ta. I recall reading something about strange rain and bloody water. Try Ch.45 utp?t?dhy?ya? and you may find something there. >>>> >>>> Good luck! >>>> >>>> Bill M. Mak >>>> >>>> University of Kyoto >>>> Graduate School of Humanities, Faculty of Letters >>>> Department of Indological Studies >>>> Yoshida-Honmachi, Sakyo-ku, >>>> Kyoto, 606-8501, Japan >>>> >>>> bill.m.mak at gmail.com >>>> >>>> On 2010/11/16, at 21:15, James Hegarty wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Colleagues, >>>>> >>>>> Has anyone come across this term (rudhiravar?a) outside of the war books of the Mah?bh?rata? >>>>> >>>>> I am especially interested where it occurs as a portent of future violence etc. I am aware of its use in Buddhist accounts of the birth of Aj?ta?atru, but that is about it! >>>>> >>>>> I have the w?rterbuch entry, but the information here is somewhat lacking in context, by its very nature. >>>>> >>>>> Can anyone help me? >>>>> >>>>> With All Best Wishes, >>>>> >>>>> James Hegarty >>>>> Cardiff University From Gerard.Huet at INRIA.FR Wed Nov 17 16:26:55 2010 From: Gerard.Huet at INRIA.FR (=?utf-8?Q?G=C3=A9rard_Huet?=) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 10 17:26:55 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_Raining_Blood:_rudhiravar_=E1=B9=A3a?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090815.23782.14570531948977823655.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 55 Lines: 4 R?m?ya?a 1.29.11b: (r?k?as??) rudhiraugh?n av?s?jan From mnstorm at MAC.COM Wed Nov 17 12:31:14 2010 From: mnstorm at MAC.COM (Mary Storm) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 10 18:01:14 +0530 Subject: Request from a Student Message-ID: <161227090813.23782.14941699208243626809.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 400 Lines: 21 Dear All, Thanks to all of you willing to help my student negotiate Indian politics and her understanding of the Aryan debates. All Best wishes, Mary Mary Storm, Ph.D. Academic Director and Lecturer India: National Identity and the Arts and Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture SIT Study Abroad http://www.sit.edu/studyabroad F 301 Lado Sarai New Delhi 110030 India Mobile: +91 98106 98003 From andra.kleb at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Wed Nov 17 20:39:36 2010 From: andra.kleb at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (Andrey Klebanov) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 10 21:39:36 +0100 Subject: e-text of siddhas=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81ra?= In-Reply-To: <54AAB2F7-8B57-4B1A-973B-E4530C2604F8@inria.fr> Message-ID: <161227090818.23782.10091378279480398618.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 323 Lines: 10 Dear list members! is anyone of you by any chance aware / in possession of an e-text of Siddhas?ra? (I'm thinking of preparing one, it would be a pity, however, to double someone's work --- there are so many other important texts awaiting digitalization) Thank you in advance and with the best regards Andrey Klebanov From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Wed Nov 17 22:44:05 2010 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 10 23:44:05 +0100 Subject: Raining Blood: rudhiravar=?utf-8?Q?=E1=B9=A3a?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090820.23782.9216231692635987181.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3038 Lines: 60 Raining blood (along with earthquakes, the weeping of images and many other portents) is included in an account of Adbhuta??nti in the P?rva-K?ra??gama (p. 714 of edition of 1921 [Kaliyuga 5023]): bh?mika?pe nad?k?obhe k?pak?obhe ta??kake| pratim?rodane caiva tata? ?o?itavar?ake|| 144F:5|| ? Dominic Goodall On 16-Nov-2010, at 8:51 PM, Som Dev Vasudeva wrote: > Some further references worth pursing: > > Atharvavedapari?i??as.txt:3860: (AVParis_72,3.4) rajovar?am upalavar?a? dadhimadhugh?tak??ravar?a? majj?rudhira var?ati / > The same but cited with variants in the Kau?ikapaddhati :13870:yadapi pari?i??e?u pa?hyate sarve g?he pravi??e sarvamev?lpaka? d???v? sarvasammito v?yu? sambhrame udakapr?durbh?ve gamane?u dhanu?sandhyolk?? parive??? vidyudda????aniparipraparigh?rddhe nirgh?te rajovar?a-upalavar?adak?imadhugh?tavar?amajj?rudhiravar?atih?nagabhast? dve m?rge vidyut vittak?aye somasya k?aye p?r?ap?ra?e k?ayasyavabh?s? sadyoparar?tr?di digd?hopadh?panagrahavai?amyam?roha?am?krama?a? gandharvanagaram?rutaprakopa? tithikara?amuh?rtanak?atrayogadhruvakak?ni grah?d?n?? samaviyoga? / > > R?m?ya?a 6.115.22ab: rajovar?a? samudbh?ta? pa?ya v?lukin?? prati / > > R?jatara?gi?? of ?r?vara 1:1059: v???y? saha rajovar?am apatad gagan?d bhuvi / > > There are also substantial discussions of clouds in works of K??i??stra see Wojtilla, Gyula, 2006 ?History of Kr?s?i??stra, a History of Indian Literature on Traditional Agriculture.? One such work I recently had the fortune to read that has abundant discussions of seasonal rainfall and prognostication was the K??ikarmavivecana. It seemed quite closely related to the little studied genre of ?Tantric meteorology? such as can be found in the Bhairav?yamegham?l?, that it might even be best identified as a separate genre: Tantric agriculture (?). I remember seeing an MS of this in the Wellcome Institute in London but cannot now find my photocopies of it. > > Best, > > Somadeva Vasudeva > > On Nov 16, 2010, at 12:05 PM, Bill Mak wrote: > >> For portents, your best source would be a jyoti?a text like B?hatsa?h?ta. I recall reading something about strange rain and bloody water. Try Ch.45 utp?t?dhy?ya? and you may find something there. >> >> Good luck! >> >> Bill M. Mak >> >> University of Kyoto >> Graduate School of Humanities, Faculty of Letters >> Department of Indological Studies >> Yoshida-Honmachi, Sakyo-ku, >> Kyoto, 606-8501, Japan >> >> bill.m.mak at gmail.com >> >> On 2010/11/16, at 21:15, James Hegarty wrote: >> >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> Has anyone come across this term (rudhiravar?a) outside of the war books of the Mah?bh?rata? >>> >>> I am especially interested where it occurs as a portent of future violence etc. I am aware of its use in Buddhist accounts of the birth of Aj?ta?atru, but that is about it! >>> >>> I have the w?rterbuch entry, but the information here is somewhat lacking in context, by its very nature. >>> >>> Can anyone help me? >>> >>> With All Best Wishes, >>> >>> James Hegarty >>> Cardiff University From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Thu Nov 18 17:15:40 2010 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 10 09:15:40 -0800 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_Raining_Blood:_rudhiravar_=E1=B9=A3a?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090833.23782.2013761025725366963.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6069 Lines: 187 Just noticed this mail! Correct, there's no references to "blood raining from above" in Sangam Literature. All the references to a "flood of blood" if you will, (???????? ?????; ????? ??????) are about the blood shed in a war. The first reference close to "blood raining from above" is found in Kalinkattupparani (????????????????) preceding Kampan's time. The verse is as follows: "matakkari maruppu i?a matam pularum?l? ma?appi?i maruppu e?a matam po?iyum?l? katirccu?ar vi?akku o?i ka?uttu eriyum?l? k?la mukil ce?kuruti k?la varum?l?" ??????? ??????? ?? ???? ????????? ???????? ??????? ?? ???? ?????????? ???????????? ??????? ??? ??????? ????????? ??? ?????? ?????????? ??? ??????? This verse is all about the omens noticed in the Kalinga country (modern Orissa?) when the chola king Kulottunkan waged war against Kalingam. Regards, Rajam On Nov 17, 2010, at 4:08 PM, George Hart wrote: > From the Kara? Vataip Pa?alam (?ra?iya K???am), > Kampar?m?ya?am: > > 69. 3040 > > Hearing those words, a R?k?asa came > whose name was Akampana, of great learning > and one among them who had good to him, > and he said, ?Lord! Let me say something. > It is right to be very fierce in battle, > O you who are most virile among > all heroes! but around this action > we pursue, there have been evil omens. > > 70. 3041 > > ?The clouds have been roaring, pouring down > a very great rain of blood > and the Sun God, look at him, > he is surrounded by a halo! > Notice how there are flocks of crows > that hover above your flag > and fight each other, fall, cry out, > and fallen roll on the earth...." > > The relevant Tamil is: > kuruti m? ma?ai corinta?a > m?ka?ka? kumu?i > > No doubt there are other instances in Kampa?, since he was > following V?lm?ki. I have not found anything in Sangam > Literature. George Hart > > On Nov 17, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Robert Goldman wrote: > >> Although the exact terms vary, the raining of blood is mentioned >> frequently in the Yuddhak???a of the V?lm?kir?m?ya?a as >> one of the portents of calamity for the warrior to whom they >> appear. See the following verses in the critical edition: >> 6.26.22; 6.31.5; 6.41.33; 6.83.33; 6.94.15. The most common >> expression is vavar?a rudhiram... >> Dr. R. P. Goldman >> Professor of Sanskrit >> Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies >> MC # 2540 >> The University of California at Berkeley >> Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 >> Tel: 510-642-4089 >> Fax: 510-642-2409 >> >> >> >> >> On Nov 17, 2010, at 2:44 PM, Dominic Goodall wrote: >> >>> Raining blood (along with earthquakes, the weeping of images and >>> many other portents) is included in an account of Adbhuta??nti >>> in the P?rva-K?ra??gama (p. 714 of edition of 1921 [Kaliyuga >>> 5023]): >>> >>> bh?mika?pe nad?k?obhe k?pak?obhe ta??kake| >>> pratim?rodane caiva tata? ?o?itavar?ake|| 144F:5|| >>> ? >>> >>> Dominic Goodall >>> >>> On 16-Nov-2010, at 8:51 PM, Som Dev Vasudeva wrote: >>> >>>> Some further references worth pursing: >>>> >>>> Atharvavedapari?i??as.txt:3860: (AVParis_72,3.4) >>>> rajovar?am upalavar?a? dadhimadhugh?tak??ravar?a? >>>> majj?rudhira var?ati / >>>> The same but cited with variants in the Kau?ikapaddhati : >>>> 13870:yadapi pari?i??e?u pa?hyate sarve g?he >>>> pravi??e sarvamev?lpaka? d???v? sarvasammito >>>> v?yu? sambhrame udakapr?durbh?ve gamane?u >>>> dhanu?sandhyolk?? parive??? >>>> vidyudda????aniparipraparigh?rddhe nirgh?te rajovar?a- >>>> upalavar?adak?imadhugh?tavar?amajj?rudhiravar?atih?naga >>>> bhast? dve m?rge vidyut vittak?aye somasya k?aye >>>> p?r?ap?ra?e k?ayasyavabh?s? sadyoparar?tr?di >>>> digd?hopadh?panagrahavai?amyam?roha?am?krama?a? >>>> gandharvanagaram?rutaprakopa? >>>> tithikara?amuh?rtanak?atrayogadhruvakak?ni grah?d?n?? >>>> samaviyoga? / >>>> >>>> R?m?ya?a 6.115.22ab: rajovar?a? samudbh?ta? pa?ya >>>> v?lukin?? prati / >>>> >>>> R?jatara?gi?? of ?r?vara 1:1059: v???y? saha >>>> rajovar?am apatad gagan?d bhuvi / >>>> >>>> There are also substantial discussions of clouds in works of >>>> K??i??stra see Wojtilla, Gyula, 2006 ?History of >>>> Kr?s?i??stra, a History of Indian Literature on Traditional >>>> Agriculture.? One such work I recently had the fortune to read >>>> that has abundant discussions of seasonal rainfall and >>>> prognostication was the K??ikarmavivecana. It seemed quite >>>> closely related to the little studied genre of ?Tantric >>>> meteorology? such as can be found in the >>>> Bhairav?yamegham?l?, that it might even be best identified as >>>> a separate genre: Tantric agriculture (?). I remember seeing an >>>> MS of this in the Wellcome Institute in London but cannot now >>>> find my photocopies of it. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Somadeva Vasudeva >>>> >>>> On Nov 16, 2010, at 12:05 PM, Bill Mak wrote: >>>> >>>>> For portents, your best source would be a jyoti?a text like >>>>> B?hatsa?h?ta. I recall reading something about strange rain >>>>> and bloody water. Try Ch.45 utp?t?dhy?ya? and you may find >>>>> something there. >>>>> >>>>> Good luck! >>>>> >>>>> Bill M. Mak >>>>> >>>>> University of Kyoto >>>>> Graduate School of Humanities, Faculty of Letters >>>>> Department of Indological Studies >>>>> Yoshida-Honmachi, Sakyo-ku, >>>>> Kyoto, 606-8501, Japan >>>>> >>>>> bill.m.mak at gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> On 2010/11/16, at 21:15, James Hegarty wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Colleagues, >>>>>> >>>>>> Has anyone come across this term (rudhiravar?a) outside of >>>>>> the war books of the Mah?bh?rata? >>>>>> >>>>>> I am especially interested where it occurs as a portent of >>>>>> future violence etc. I am aware of its use in Buddhist >>>>>> accounts of the birth of Aj?ta?atru, but that is about it! >>>>>> >>>>>> I have the w?rterbuch entry, but the information here is >>>>>> somewhat lacking in context, by its very nature. >>>>>> >>>>>> Can anyone help me? >>>>>> >>>>>> With All Best Wishes, >>>>>> >>>>>> James Hegarty >>>>>> Cardiff University From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Nov 18 10:30:09 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 10 11:30:09 +0100 Subject: e-text of siddhas=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81ra?= In-Reply-To: <9392CCC1-544E-4261-82C6-8B43BB7A1EAD@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <161227090828.23782.982827074012475863.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 848 Lines: 30 Dear Andrey, Emmerick must have typed it, probably using the REE fonts and WordPerfect 4.2. I believe Prof. R. P. Das received the content of Emmerick's hard drive after he passed away. Since it is printed in cleanly-typeset roman font, it should be possible to get at least a first cut of the file by scanning at high resolution (600dpi+) and using OCR. However, this might be a violation of copyright. Best, Dominik On 17 November 2010 21:39, Andrey Klebanov wrote: > Dear list members! > > is anyone of you by any chance aware / in possession of an e-text of > Siddhas?ra? (I'm thinking of preparing one, it would be a pity, however, to > double someone's work --- there are so many other important texts awaiting > digitalization) > > Thank you in advance > and with the best regards > Andrey Klebanov From andra.kleb at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Thu Nov 18 16:01:36 2010 From: andra.kleb at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (Andrey Klebanov) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 10 17:01:36 +0100 Subject: e-text of siddhas=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81ra?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090831.23782.12807967255520669069.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1037 Lines: 31 Thanks, Dominik! I'll let you know if I'm finished that you can make it available to others as well. best, Andrey On 18.11.2010, at 11:30, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Dear Andrey, > > Emmerick must have typed it, probably using the REE fonts and WordPerfect 4.2. I believe Prof. R. P. Das received the content of Emmerick's hard drive after he passed away. > > Since it is printed in cleanly-typeset roman font, it should be possible to get at least a first cut of the file by scanning at high resolution (600dpi+) and using OCR. However, this might be a violation of copyright. > > Best, > Dominik > > > > On 17 November 2010 21:39, Andrey Klebanov wrote: > Dear list members! > > is anyone of you by any chance aware / in possession of an e-text of Siddhas?ra? (I'm thinking of preparing one, it would be a pity, however, to double someone's work --- there are so many other important texts awaiting digitalization) > > Thank you in advance > and with the best regards > Andrey Klebanov > From beitel at GWU.EDU Fri Nov 19 13:14:23 2010 From: beitel at GWU.EDU (Alfred Hiltebeitel) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 10 08:14:23 -0500 Subject: the koti In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090836.23782.11108259793102255405.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 603 Lines: 17 Dear Colleagues, I have a question that Randy Kloetzli has asked me to communicate to INDOLOGY: "Is there some scholarship regarding the number known as the koti? Its value is 10 to the 7th power or 1 followed by 7 zeroes. Monier-Williams says only that it is the largest of the old order of numbers." If a conversation emerges here, I will communicate it to Randy. Or you could write him offline at catrandu at comcast.net. Thanks, Alf Alf Hiltebeitel Professor of Religion, History and Human Sciences Department of Religion 2106 G Street, NW George Washington University Washington DC 20052 From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Fri Nov 19 14:54:39 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 10 08:54:39 -0600 Subject: the koti In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090838.23782.8026931738769620471.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1144 Lines: 27 Dear Alf (and Randy), In her _Mathematics in India_ (PUP), Kim Plofker (p. 14) cites Yajurveda 7.2.20 that gives a decimal progression running up to 10 to the 12th (a billion). Here, the term for ten million is not ko.ti, but arbuda, so pace M-W, ko.ti was not the highest in the old series, whatever that means. Unfortunately, Plofker's book does not seem to deal with number names in a systematic way, and I find no reference to the ko.ti in it. (Of course, Plofker's book is most useful and excellent on many other matters.) The designations for numbers in India are usefully tabulated in Georges Ifrah, Histoire universelle des Chiffres (there is an English trans. available, but I have only the original French), vol. 1, ch. 24 ("La civilisation indienne: berceau de la num?risation moderne"), pp. 940ff. ("Une culture atteinte par la 'folie' des grands nombres"). Ko.ti occurs here in many lists, and always, so far as I can see, meaning a "crore," 10 to the 7th. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From athr at LOC.GOV Fri Nov 19 15:21:14 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 10 10:21:14 -0500 Subject: the koti In-Reply-To: <20101119085439.AEQ30387@mstore02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227090840.23782.8197248339061862913.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1866 Lines: 23 The English translation of the 1st ed. of Ifrah's work is From one to zero : a universal history of numbers, published by Viking and Penguin in 1985. That of the expanded 2nd ed. is The universal history of numbers : from prehistory to the invention of the computer, published in London by Harvill (1998) in 1 vol. and in New York by Wiley (2002) in 2 vols. The book also includes, as I recall, an excellent cumulation of the various number-words (bhutasankhya), along with katapayadi etc. Allen -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 9:55 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] the koti Dear Alf (and Randy), In her _Mathematics in India_ (PUP), Kim Plofker (p. 14) cites Yajurveda 7.2.20 that gives a decimal progression running up to 10 to the 12th (a billion). Here, the term for ten million is not ko.ti, but arbuda, so pace M-W, ko.ti was not the highest in the old series, whatever that means. Unfortunately, Plofker's book does not seem to deal with number names in a systematic way, and I find no reference to the ko.ti in it. (Of course, Plofker's book is most useful and excellent on many other matters.) The designations for numbers in India are usefully tabulated in Georges Ifrah, Histoire universelle des Chiffres (there is an English trans. available, but I have only the original French), vol. 1, ch. 24 ("La civilisation indienne: berceau de la num?risation moderne"), pp. 940ff. ("Une culture atteinte par la 'folie' des grands nombres"). Ko.ti occurs here in many lists, and always, so far as I can see, meaning a "crore," 10 to the 7th. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Fri Nov 19 16:43:13 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 10 10:43:13 -0600 Subject: the koti In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090852.23782.4392753654447521387.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 661 Lines: 22 Western sources were clearly aware of the treatment of higher numbers in Indian sources in the early 19th c. John Taylor, in his _Lilawati_ (Bombay 1816) already gives them up to 17 places (giving ko.ti in the form kotya) and mentions that Wilkins had earlier presented the decimal numbers up to 22 places. I mentioned Ifrah just as a handy compilation -- it is not an Indological work, nor a work that treats the history of the many disciplines from which Ifrah compiled his material. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI Fri Nov 19 16:14:03 2010 From: asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI (Asko Parpola) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 10 18:14:03 +0200 Subject: the koti In-Reply-To: <20101119085439.AEQ30387@mstore02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227090843.23782.6303936467905857786.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1465 Lines: 41 An early but excellent paper on the high numbers is Weber, Albrecht, 1861. Vedische Angaben ?ber Zeittheilung und hohe Zahlen. Zeitschrift der Deutschen Morgenl?ndischen Gesellschaft 15: 132-139. Best regards, Asko Parpola Quoting mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU: > Dear Alf (and Randy), > > In her _Mathematics in India_ (PUP), Kim Plofker (p. 14) > cites Yajurveda 7.2.20 that gives a decimal progression > running up to 10 to the 12th (a billion). Here, the > term for ten million is not ko.ti, but arbuda, so pace > M-W, ko.ti was not the highest in the old series, whatever > that means. Unfortunately, Plofker's book does not seem to > deal with number names in a systematic way, and I find > no reference to the ko.ti in it. (Of course, Plofker's > book is most useful and excellent on many other matters.) > > The designations for numbers in India are usefully tabulated > in Georges Ifrah, Histoire universelle des Chiffres (there > is an English trans. available, but I have only the > original French), vol. 1, ch. 24 ("La civilisation indienne: berceau > de la num?risation moderne"), pp. 940ff. ("Une culture atteinte par > la 'folie' des grands nombres"). Ko.ti > occurs here in many lists, and always, so far as I can > see, meaning a "crore," 10 to the 7th. > > Matthew T. Kapstein > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies > The University of Chicago Divinity School > Directeur d'?tudes > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > > From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Fri Nov 19 16:24:02 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 10 21:54:02 +0530 Subject: the koti Message-ID: <161227090847.23782.8855625991640836428.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1750 Lines: 58 --- On Fri, 19/11/10, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] the koti To: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Date: Friday, 19 November, 2010, 4:22 PM Did not Wackernagel-Debrunner AiG III 375-377 supplied the information as early as 1930? Best DB --- On Fri, 19/11/10, mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU wrote: From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] the koti To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Friday, 19 November, 2010, 2:54 PM Dear Alf (and Randy), In her _Mathematics in India_ (PUP), Kim Plofker (p. 14) cites Yajurveda 7.2.20 that gives a decimal progression running up to 10 to the 12th (a billion). Here, the term for ten million is not ko.ti, but arbuda, so pace M-W, ko.ti was not the highest in the old series, whatever that means. Unfortunately, Plofker's book does not seem to deal with number names in a systematic way, and I find no reference to the ko.ti in it. (Of course, Plofker's book is most useful and excellent on many other matters.) The designations for numbers in India are usefully tabulated in Georges Ifrah, Histoire universelle des Chiffres (there is an English trans. available, but I have only the original French), vol. 1, ch. 24 ("La civilisation indienne: berceau de la num?risation moderne"), pp. 940ff. ("Une culture atteinte par la 'folie' des grands nombres"). Ko.ti occurs here in many lists, and always, so far as I can see, meaning a "crore," 10 to the 7th. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Fri Nov 19 16:26:54 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 10 21:56:54 +0530 Subject: Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] the koti Message-ID: <161227090849.23782.4015735307002162229.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1792 Lines: 62 --- On Fri, 19/11/10, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] the koti To: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Date: Friday, 19 November, 2010, 4:22 PM Please read as follows. I express regret Did not Wackernagel-Debrunner AiG III 375-377 supply the information as early as 1930? Best DB --- On Fri, 19/11/10, mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU wrote: From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] the koti To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Friday, 19 November, 2010, 2:54 PM Dear Alf (and Randy), In her _Mathematics in India_ (PUP), Kim Plofker (p. 14) cites Yajurveda 7.2.20 that gives a decimal progression running up to 10 to the 12th (a billion). Here, the term for ten million is not ko.ti, but arbuda, so pace M-W, ko.ti was not the highest in the old series, whatever that means. Unfortunately, Plofker's book does not seem to deal with number names in a systematic way, and I find no reference to the ko.ti in it. (Of course, Plofker's book is most useful and excellent on many other matters.) The designations for numbers in India are usefully tabulated in Georges Ifrah, Histoire universelle des Chiffres (there is an English trans. available, but I have only the original French), vol. 1, ch. 24 ("La civilisation indienne: berceau de la num?risation moderne"), pp. 940ff. ("Une culture atteinte par la 'folie' des grands nombres"). Ko.ti occurs here in many lists, and always, so far as I can see, meaning a "crore," 10 to the 7th. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Nov 21 09:44:46 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 10 10:44:46 +0100 Subject: ORI Mysore Message-ID: <161227090854.23782.7171957442567728531.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 128 Lines: 6 A nice little puff in the local papers for the ORI, Mysore: http://www.starofmysore.com/main.asp?type=specialnews&item=5317 From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Nov 23 02:02:43 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 10 21:02:43 -0500 Subject: the koti In-Reply-To: <20101119085439.AEQ30387@mstore02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227090856.23782.17708919214018258896.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2042 Lines: 17 I was queried off the list whether my memory of Ifrah's book containing a cumulation of the various number-words was accurate. I checked the 2000 English ed. and found I understated what is included in the second chapter Matthew mentions (chapter title in English trans., "Part II: Dictionary of the Numeral Symbols of Indian Civilisation," pp. 440-510: 70 pages of small print). Under each of the numbers there is a list of words meaning that number, and conversely under each word the number it means. There are also a lagre number of topical articles, plus, as Matthew says, lists of powers of ten, individual articles for each word referring a power of ten, etc. etc. Ideally the book should be in every Indological reference library, IMHO. All this is only in the 2nd ed.; the treatment in the 1st is far smaller. Please note that the LOC cataloging, and therefore presumably that of other libraries that have copied LOC's record, is confusing about the 2nd English ed., partly because of ambiguities in the title page and spine information itself. "Universal history of numbers" is cataloged as if it were vol. 1 of a two volume work whereas "The universal history of computing : from the abacus to the quantum computer," the English trans. of vol. 2, is cataloged as if it were an independent work. The French of the 2nd ed. (1994) is unambiguous and has an overall title that covers both numbers and computing: "Histoire universelle des chiffres : l?intelligence des hommes raconte?e par les nombres et le calcul." There are a number of dictionaries in Indian languages about bhutasankhyas, some dealing solely with that subject and others including them in lists of numerical lists. If there is interest I will try to put together and post a bibliography of them, after checking some titles new to me that may or may not be on the subject. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Asian Division, Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From kellera at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Tue Nov 23 10:55:20 2010 From: kellera at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Agathe Keller) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 10 11:55:20 +0100 Subject: the koti Message-ID: <161227090858.23782.7939304892767363847.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 987 Lines: 33 Takao Hayashi in his edition, translation and study of the Bakhshali manuscript (Egbert Forsten, 1995), has made a study of different names for higher numbers in all sorts of texts, mathematical and non-mathematical (p.65-70). This includes names for 10 to the power 20 in certain recensions of the Ramayana (mahauga in the Bombay/Gorakhpur edition), or 10 to the power 23 in Mahavira's Ganitasarasamgraha (mahAkSobha). koti in this context always appears as a stable name for 10 to the power 7 (also sometimes called arbuda) but obviously much greater numbers could be considered. I have scans of those five pages of comparative tables for the names of numbers, that I can send to whom is interested, just write to me. And, Allen, I certainly would be very interested on information on Indian dictionaries on bhutaksankhyas! Agathe -- Agathe Keller Universit? PARIS 7 - CNRS Laboratoire SPHERE UMR 7219 Adresse postale: Case 7093 5 rue Thomas Mann 75205 PARIS CEDEX 13 From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Nov 23 14:01:42 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 10 15:01:42 +0100 Subject: the koti In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090870.23782.16208604035108693262.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 807 Lines: 18 Allen is quite right to say that Ifrah's magnificent book should be at all our elbows. It's an astonishing achievement, full of valuable reference materials for South Asianists of all stamps. I attach a quick scan of the page from the "Dictionary" mentioned below, that has the entry on ko?i. This is from my 1998 edition from Harvill Press, London, titled "The Universal History of Numbers from Prehistory to the Invention of the Computer" (ISBN 186046324X ). Dominik -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ifrah-koti2.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 721437 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kellera at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Wed Nov 24 05:32:50 2010 From: kellera at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Agathe Keller) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 10 06:32:50 +0100 Subject: the koti In-Reply-To: <4CEB9D98.8020500@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <161227090878.23782.5645224363825152206.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1616 Lines: 62 Dear all, a message of Robert Goldmann off list, has made me realize that I posted an error : Hayashi actually lists 10 to the power 52 and 10 to the power 60 for mahaugha (note the transliteration mistake as well); but it seems that different powers of ten can be given under this name according to the Ramayana recension considered. sorry, Agathe Le 11/23/10 11:55 AM, Agathe Keller a ?crit : > Takao Hayashi in his edition, translation and study of the Bakhshali > manuscript (Egbert Forsten, 1995), has made a study of different names > for higher numbers in all sorts of texts, mathematical and > non-mathematical (p.65-70). This includes names for 10 to the power 20 > in certain recensions of the Ramayana (mahauga in the Bombay/Gorakhpur > edition), or 10 to the power 23 in Mahavira's Ganitasarasamgraha > (mahAkSobha). > > koti in this context always appears as a stable name for 10 to the > power 7 (also sometimes called arbuda) but obviously much greater > numbers could be considered. > > I have scans of those five pages of comparative tables for the names of > numbers, that I can send to whom is interested, just write to me. > > And, Allen, I certainly would be very interested on information on > Indian dictionaries on bhutaksankhyas! > > Agathe -- Agathe Keller Universit? PARIS 7 - CNRS Laboratoire SPHERE UMR 7219 Equipe REHSEIS Case 7093 5 rue Thomas Mann 75205 PARIS CEDEX 13 00 33 1 57 27 68 87 /Adresse de livraison :/ /Universit? Paris 7 / /Laboratoire SPHERE / /UMR 7219 / /B?timent Condorcet 3? ?tage bureau 387A/ /10 rue A.Domont et L.Duquet/ /75013 PARIS/ From fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Nov 25 03:47:11 2010 From: fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM (Benjamin Fleming) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 10 22:47:11 -0500 Subject: Skanda Purana 70-71 Message-ID: <161227090880.23782.11461567234993822305.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 706 Lines: 23 Dear List, Does anyone have a copy of K???apras?da Bha??ar??'s edition of the early Skanda Pur??a, chapters 70-71, that they might be willing to scan for me? My copy of this text appears to be missing these chapters for some reason. Chapter 71 deals with the myth of ?arabha and Narasimha, I believe. I am missing from 70.59 to the end of chapter 71. I would be grateful if anyone could provide this for me off-list. Best Wishes, Benjamin Fleming -- Benjamin Fleming Visiting Scholar, Dept. of Religious Studies, University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street, Claudia Cohen Hall, #234 Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A. Telephone - 215-746-7792 http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~bfleming From fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Nov 25 04:38:31 2010 From: fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM (Benjamin Fleming) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 10 23:38:31 -0500 Subject: Skanda Purana 70-71 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090883.23782.18046301708021097934.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1012 Lines: 37 Dear All, I have quickly received a copy of the text; no need for further help on this! Best, B > Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 22:47:11 -0500 > From: fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Skanda Purana 70-71 > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > > Dear List, > > Does anyone have a copy of K???apras?da Bha??ar??'s edition of the early Skanda Pur??a, chapters 70-71, that they might be willing to scan for me? My copy of this text appears to be missing these chapters for some reason. Chapter 71 deals with the myth of ?arabha and Narasimha, I believe. I am missing from 70.59 to the end of chapter 71. I would be grateful if anyone could provide this for me off-list. > > Best Wishes, > > Benjamin Fleming > > -- > > Benjamin Fleming Visiting Scholar, > Dept. of Religious Studies, > University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street, > Claudia Cohen Hall, #234 > Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A. > Telephone - 215-746-7792 > http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~bfleming > > From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Thu Nov 25 16:52:38 2010 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 10 17:52:38 +0100 Subject: Are diacritics NOW irrelevant ? (Re: [INDOLOGY] the koti Message-ID: <161227090885.23782.16154587848484296898.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1749 Lines: 50 Dear Dominik W., Dear Allen T., As someone interested in Mathematics [for a very long time], I am sure this book has many qualities but STILL I believe praise should not be unqualified. The sample sent by Dominik shows that diacritics are not used in this book. (is "koti" the same as "kōṭi"?)* (is a RETROFLEX consonant the same thing as a DENTAL consonant?) [I have used "ō" because my field is Tamil and I MUST also distinguish between "koṭi" (கொடி) {"flag"} and "kōṭi" (கோடி) {"crore"}] This book illustrates a DISASTROUS trend (are philologists [and linguists] going to behave from now onwards like anthropologists?) It may be the case that Europeans (or "caucasians" ? ;-) are often unable to distinguish between "t" and "ṭ" and between "t" and "th" BUT this is not something to be encouraged. I personally vote AGAINST having this book on everybody's shelf until diacritics have been added. It might ALSO be useful to read the reviews which have been made of this book (thanks for pointers). -- Jean-Luc Chevillard On 23/11/2010 19:31, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Allen is quite right to say that Ifrah's magnificent book should be at all > our elbows. It's an astonishing achievement, full of valuable reference > materials for South Asianists of all stamps. I attach a quick scan of the > page from the "Dictionary" mentioned below, that has the entry on koṭi. > This is from my 1998 edition from Harvill Press, London, titled "The > Universal History of Numbers from Prehistory to the Invention of the > Computer" (ISBN > 186046324X > ). > > Dominik From hellwig7 at GMX.DE Thu Nov 25 22:06:32 2010 From: hellwig7 at GMX.DE (Oliver Hellwig) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 10 22:06:32 +0000 Subject: New version of DCS Message-ID: <161227090891.23782.11580196685394788801.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 514 Lines: 20 Dear colleagues, a new version of the Digital Corpus of Sanskrit is available at http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/. The website now supports Devanagari output, which can be selected at the help center (follow the link "Help" and check Devanagari output). The Devanagari mode is marked by a (very) small green button just below the main menu. Best regards, Oliver Hellwig ------------------ PD Dr. Oliver Hellwig SAI, University of Heidelberg Im Neuenheimer Feld 330 69120 Heidelberg, Germany From harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM Fri Nov 26 08:13:26 2010 From: harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM (Harsha Dehejia) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 10 03:13:26 -0500 Subject: Deccan Message-ID: <161227090897.23782.6259012656345140124.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 438 Lines: 16 Friends~ Is it right to say that when one uses the word 'Deccan', particualry when one is talking about the arts, that it applies to the 5 kingdoms that sprang up after the collapse of the Vijaynagar Empire? One does not use the word 'Deccan' when one is talking about the Cholas and the Nayakas and the Chalukyas. Is this correct? Regards. Harsha Prof. Harsha V. Dehejia Carleton University, Ottawa, ON. Canada. From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Fri Nov 26 02:34:24 2010 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 10 08:04:24 +0530 Subject: Are diacritics NOW irrelevant ? (Re: [INDOLOGY] the koti In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090894.23782.1889370068187256142.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2316 Lines: 59 Dear Jean-Luc, On the subject of pointers to reviews of this work: This critical review by Joseph Dauben mentions the various cautionary reviews by historians of mathematics from different fields that appeared in the ?Bulletin de l?Association des Professeurs de Math?matiques de l?Enseignement Publique? of the French version from which the English book was expanded: http://www.ams.org/notices/200201/rev-dauben.pdf Dominic Goodall On 25-Nov-2010, at 10:22 PM, Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD wrote: > Dear Dominik W., > Dear Allen T., > > As someone interested in Mathematics [for a very long time], > I am sure this book has many qualities > but STILL I believe praise should not be unqualified. > > The sample sent by Dominik shows that diacritics > are not used in this book. > (is "koti" the same as "kōṭi"?)* > (is a RETROFLEX consonant the same thing as a DENTAL consonant?) > [I have used "ō" because my field is Tamil > and I MUST also distinguish between "koṭi" (கொடி) {"flag"} and "kōṭi" (கோடி) {"crore"}] > > This book illustrates a DISASTROUS trend > (are philologists [and linguists] going to behave > from now onwards like anthropologists?) > > It may be the case that Europeans (or "caucasians" ? ;-) > are often unable to distinguish between "t" and "ṭ" > and between "t" and "th" > BUT this is not something to be encouraged. > > I personally vote AGAINST having this book on everybody's shelf > until diacritics have been added. > > It might ALSO be useful to read the reviews which have been made of this book (thanks for pointers). > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard > > > > On 23/11/2010 19:31, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >> Allen is quite right to say that Ifrah's magnificent book should be at all >> our elbows. It's an astonishing achievement, full of valuable reference >> materials for South Asianists of all stamps. I attach a quick scan of the >> page from the "Dictionary" mentioned below, that has the entry on koṭi. >> This is from my 1998 edition from Harvill Press, London, titled "The >> Universal History of Numbers from Prehistory to the Invention of the >> Computer" (ISBN >> 186046324X >> ). >> Dominik From will.sweetman at GMAIL.COM Thu Nov 25 19:26:56 2010 From: will.sweetman at GMAIL.COM (Will Sweetman) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 10 08:26:56 +1300 Subject: Fwd: PhD Scholarship in the History of Mathematics in India Message-ID: <161227090888.23782.7227006346087007610.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4381 Lines: 78 Begin forwarded message: > From: Clemency Montelle > Date: 26 November 2010 2:21:04 AM NZDT > Subject: PhD Scholarship in the History of Mathematics in India > > Dear South Asia Colleagues, > > Please circulate this PhD Scholarship announcement. Do feel free to send me any recommendations as well. > > Best wishes from France, > Clemency > > --- > > ANNOUNCEMENT OF A PHD SCHOLARSHIP IN THE HISTORY OF MATHEMATICAL SCIENCES IN INDIA > > An international project on the history of computational methods in Sanskrit mathematics has recently been awarded a three-year grant from New Zealand's premier fund for research excellence, the Marsden Fund Council, administered by the Royal Society of New Zealand. (http://www.royalsociety.org.nz/2010/09/24/2010-round-press-releases/) > > As part of the activities of this project, the investigators are offering a doctoral study and research opportunity with the title "Research Associate" with three years of full support for 2011-2013 for the completion of a doctoral degree at the University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand (http://www.canterbury.ac.nz/). > > The scholarship will provide for an annual living allowance/stipend of $NZ25,000 and tuition costs for three years, and is tenable for study towards the degree of Doctor of Philosophy in the appropriate department or program (for example, the Department of Mathematics and Statistics, the History and Philosophy of Science program) on the topic of the history of mathematical sciences. > > The Research Associate will research and write under the supervision of the Principal Investigator a Ph.D. thesis relating to the project goals, preferably a critical edition with translation and commentary of a previously unpublished text on Sanskrit computational astronomy. He or she is also expected to assist (at a workload of 12 hours per week) in the design, maintenance, and data entry for the database and digital text processing resources created by the project investigators for the study of Sanskrit astronomical texts. > > The successful applicant will meet the following criteria at the time of appointment: > > * attainment of a sufficiently advanced level of study (preferably a Master's degree) to permit completion of the doctorate within the three years of the project. > > * sufficient knowledge of and interest in some combination of relevant fields of study, within history of the mathematical sciences and/or Indology, to design and complete under the supervisor's guidance a doctoral thesis relating to the project's objectives. > > * initiative and adaptability to cope with tasks in the Research Associate > workload ranging from routine data entry to learning (with assistance from the project investigators) the use of new software tools and techniques for software design and implementation. > > * fulfillment of the academic requirements for enrollment in the University of Canterbury for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy. > > With the approval of the Principal Investigator, this position may be held concurrently with any other scholarship, award, or bursary, excluding any such award requiring teaching or other duties separate from this project. > > How to Apply > > To apply, please send a cover letter briefly describing your relevant background and interests, a recent academic curriculum vitae, and the names and contact information of two references. > > Application deadline is 5 January 2011 > > Applications and queries should be sent to (pdf format preferable) > > Dr Clemency Montelle: > c.montelle at math.canterbury.ac.nz > or > Department of Mathematics and Statistics > University of Canterbury > Private Bag 4800 > Christchurch, 8140 > New Zealand > > > > Dr Clemency Montelle (Principal Investigator) > c.montelle at math.canterbury.ac.nz > Department of Mathematics and Statistics > University of Canterbury > Christchurch, New Zealand > > Dr Kim Plofker (Associate Investigator) > plofkerk at union.edu > Department of Mathematics > Union College > Schenectady NY, United States > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PhDscholarshipannouncement.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 53728 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Nov 26 13:19:51 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 10 14:19:51 +0100 Subject: Are diacritics NOW irrelevant ? (Re: [INDOLOGY] the koti In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090902.23782.6481855831698296979.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7682 Lines: 155 Yes, Ifra's book is flawed, yes he is inconsistent and idiosyncratic in his use of diacritical marks, and yes, subject-specialists will find points to criticize sharply. And yet, and yet, one can still learn a great deal from the book. Sharply critical assertions are commonplace for books by authors who break disciplinary boundaries and attempt to absorb and write about matters on a global scale. Projects of this scale necessarily depend also on secondary sources, and if the secondary sources are not great (and whose fault is that?), that will be reflected in the overview works. Remember, Hayashi (1993) and Plofker (2009) are the first modern histories on Indian mathematics that have emerged from genuinely specialist authors, and Hayashi's book is in Japanese. In my personal view, this does not make global projects like Ifrah's not worth doing or not worth reading. In any case, some individuals seem to be driven by a powerful internal imperative to try to comprehend it ALL and write about it. These are the "mavens" of Malcolm Gladwell's tipping-point typology, and Ifrah certainly fits the profile. And while their diacritics may be untrustworthy, taking the large view has other advantages, such as the potential to correct myopic views of history that sometimes remain unchallenged for long periods within disciplinary boundaries. Where such global historical projects have the most potential dangerously to fail, in my view, is not in getting their diacritics wrong, but in constructing grand historical narratives, of finding evolutionary meanings in historical change. Ifrah mostly doesn't do that. It is what one might call an aggregative history, verging on being a pot-pourri. More important, criticisms about diacritical marks do not make Ifrah's book not worth having at one's elbow. Obviously one wouldn't use this book - or any popular encyclopedia-type publication - as a source for unchecked citations if writing a specialist peer-reviewed article. But as a way of learning a lot about many topics and for exploring concepts about the history of numbers and putting them into relationship with each other across a global spectrum, it is of unparalleled value. Show me a better book covering Ifrah's ground, and I'll switch to it immediately. Dominik -- PS Dauben's 2002 review in the AMS Notices is amongst the most flawed, mischievous and ungenerous pieces I have ever read. Ifrah is condemned for not following Menninger, except where he is condemned for following Menninger. He is criticised for offering a hypothesis on the origins of Mesopotamian sexagesimal counting, when he himself says that he is speculating. Ifrah is criticised for proposing that ninth-century Arabic digits are very similar to Nagari, when the Arabic manuscripts he refers to come from the tenth and eleventh centuries. (Is there a plausible historical scenario in which several authors writing in Arabic script would have systematically altered their digits over a period of a century to *more* resemble Nagari?) In fact, Dauben's main point seems to be that Ifrah frames bold hypotheses where subject-specialists prefer greater caution. Fair enough, when put like that, but Dauben doesn't put it like that. He prefers to assemble the views of half a dozen other scholars, and cite criticisms from other people's published reviews. Dauben's review (pt.I) is less a review of Ifrah than a sustained demonstration of how the (mainly French) establishment has closed ranks to denounce Ifrah's best-selling work. Tellingly, most critiques of Ifrah's work refer to the judgements of the "Bulletin de l'Association des Professeurs de Math?matiques de l'Enseignement Public" that mounted and published an organized series of attacks on Ifrah's work (link). I have not read Prof. P-S. Filliozat's contribution to that publication, but the citations given by Dauben do not sound wholly damning, and indeed contain words of praise, though he points out the absence of evidence for Ifrah's abacus theory in India. True, Ifrah is not always careful enough in acknowledging the work of predecessors, he is sometimes unjustifiably bombastic about his own achievements, and he's got a bee in his bonnet about the historical importance of the abacus, which he tends to see everywhere, even where it's not. But Dauben's review is clearly an assassination attempt rather than a balanced book review, and like many critiques of this type, the spectacle of the reviewer "writhing in the mixed smart and titillation of a fully indulged resentment" leaves little room for any deeper understanding of Ifrah's achievements and failings. It is hard to read Dauben's review without seeing a mental image of the establishment closing ranks against the outsider. And Ifrah does conform to the classic outsider figure, a school teacher who gave up his carreer and washed dishes in order to research and write this book, taking not enough advice - as they see it - from professional math historians. How galling that his book should be a best-seller. By contrast, Scriba's reviewis calmer, less unpleasant, and perhaps more trenchant a critique for that reason. However, Scriba's review is also mainly a rehash of the opinions of others, and does not engage originally with most of what Ifrah has written. Ifrah's work is ambitious, comprehensive, and yet flawed and controversial. Readers of this forum are surely capable of exercising sufficient scholarly judgement to read this book without becoming unduly corrupted. In fact, perhaps we should add that to the list of qualifications for joining. On 25 November 2010 17:52, Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD < jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr> wrote: > Dear Dominik W., > Dear Allen T., > > As someone interested in Mathematics [for a very long time], > I am sure this book has many qualities > but STILL I believe praise should not be unqualified. > > The sample sent by Dominik shows that diacritics > are not used in this book. > (is "koti" the same as "kōṭi"?)* > (is a RETROFLEX consonant the same thing as a DENTAL consonant?) > [I have used "ō" because my field is Tamil > and I MUST also distinguish between "koṭi" > (கொடி) {"flag"} and "kōṭi" > (கோடி) {"crore"}] > > This book illustrates a DISASTROUS trend > (are philologists [and linguists] going to behave > from now onwards like anthropologists?) > > It may be the case that Europeans (or "caucasians" ? ;-) > are often unable to distinguish between "t" and "ṭ" > and between "t" and "th" > BUT this is not something to be encouraged. > > I personally vote AGAINST having this book on everybody's shelf > until diacritics have been added. > > It might ALSO be useful to read the reviews which have been made of this > book (thanks for pointers). > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard > > > > On 23/11/2010 19:31, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > >> Allen is quite right to say that Ifrah's magnificent book should be at all >> our elbows. It's an astonishing achievement, full of valuable reference >> materials for South Asianists of all stamps. I attach a quick scan of the >> page from the "Dictionary" mentioned below, that has the entry on >> koṭi. >> This is from my 1998 edition from Harvill Press, London, titled "The >> Universal History of Numbers from Prehistory to the Invention of the >> Computer" (ISBN >> 186046324X< >> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Universal-History-Numbers-Georges-Ifrah/dp/186046324X >> > >> ). >> >> Dominik >> > From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Fri Nov 26 12:19:04 2010 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 10 17:49:04 +0530 Subject: Fwd: [INDOLOGY] Are diacritics NOW irrelevant ? (Re: [INDOLOGY] the koti Message-ID: <161227090899.23782.9187478672977382345.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1409 Lines: 40 This must be intended for everyone, rather than just for me: Begin forwarded message: > From: > Date: 26 November 2010 4:34:36 PM GMT+05:30 > To: "Dominic Goodall" > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Are diacritics NOW irrelevant ? (Re: [INDOLOGY] the koti > > > Ifrah's book suffers from the flaws of many large > synthetic works -- the author cannot be (and cannot > be expected to be!) -- a specialist in all the domains > treated. > > One might of course object: well then why not organize > a collaborative work by specialists? In response, I > offer the lopsided and barely coherent collection > of articles one finds in the Oxford Handbook of the > History of Mathematics (though many of the > articles, taken individually are useful and interesting). Multi-authored works seldom attain > to the sort of synthesis that a work by a > single author may aspire to, even if flawed. > > It's certainly good to be aware of the shortcomings as > detailed in Dauben's review, and thanks to Dominic > for circulating it. > > But I don't think the case has been made yet to > abandon Ifrah's work like the plague. It's a work of > first reference, not of last recourse. > > Matthew T. Kapstein > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies > The University of Chicago Divinity School > Directeur d'?tudes > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Sat Nov 27 01:19:56 2010 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 10 20:19:56 -0500 Subject: 5th Vedic Workshop, Bucharest, Sept.20-23, 2011 Message-ID: <161227090909.23782.15179011796829357230.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2118 Lines: 100 Dear List Members, The Centre for Eurasiatic and Afroasiatic Studies (CEAS), Bucharest, has the pleasure to invite you to the fifth International Vedic Workshop to be organized on September 20th- 23rd 2011 in Bucharest, Romania. Suggested topics include: ? The formation of the Vedic canon: from family books to Vedic ??kh?s, from Traividya to Caturveda; ? Vedic schools and Vedic ?dialects?: ??kh?s and pr?ti??khyas; ? The relation between ??kh?s and cara?as of the same or different Vedas (Rg, S?ma, Yajur, Atharva): borrowing, citation, supplementation, usurpation (YV hautra); ? Vedic ??kh?s and cara?as in the performance of Vedic ritual: compatibility, incompatibility, competition and cooperation; ? Sources for the localization and history of the ??kh?s and their promoters (inscriptions, manuscript colophons, literary sources, etc.); ? Self-reflexivity of the Vedic tradition and its ??kh?s: anukrama??s, the (Yajur) vedavrk?a; ? A recourse to sva??kh?: the medieval and modern prayogas and paddhatis. Speakers will be invited on the basis of submitted abstracts of proposed contributions (before 30 January 2011). The Organizing Committee: Prof. Dr. Shrikant Bahulkar Prof. Dr. Jan E.M. Houben Prof. Dr. Michael Witzel Secretariat: Dr. Julieta Rotaru -- julieta.rotaru at bmms.ro (See also the attached file) PLEASE SEND YOUR PROPOSALS TO: Looking forward to seeing you next year! Best wishes, SB, JH, JR, MW ============ Michael Witzel witzel at fas.harvard.edu Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University 1 Bow Street, Cambridge MA 02138, USA phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; my direct line: 617- 496 2990 ? ================ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 5IWV-CallforpapersGENERAL.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 169499 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Fri Nov 26 20:11:27 2010 From: kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Birgit Kellner) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 10 21:11:27 +0100 Subject: Fwd: H-ASIA: 5 Postdoctoral Fellowships for Zukunftsphilologie: Revisiting the Canons of Textual Practice / Berlin 2011/12 Message-ID: <161227090905.23782.9812470164002330075.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 8258 Lines: 172 FYI - please spread the word among potential candidates (after all, Sanskrit is especially mentioned). With best regards, Birgit Kellner -------- Original-Nachricht -------- Betreff: H-ASIA: 5 Postdoctoral Fellowships for Zukunftsphilologie: Revisiting the Canons of Textual Practice / Berlin 2011/12 Datum: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 19:32:40 +0100 Von: Frank Conlon Antwort an: H-Net list for Asian History and Culture An: H-ASIA at H-NET.MSU.EDU H-ASIA November 26, 2010 Postdoctoral Fellowships (Five) for Zukunftsphilologie: Revisiting the Canons of Textual Practice / Berlin 2011/12 ************************************************************************ From: Georges Khalil CALL FOR APPLICATIONS FIVE POSTDOCTORAL FELLOWSHIPS FOR THE ACADEMIC YEAR 2011/2012 The Berlin-based Forum Transregionale Studien invites scholars to apply for five postdoctoral fellowships for the research project ZUKUNFTSPHILOLOGIE: REVISITING THE CANONS OF TEXTUAL SCHOLARSHIP The project Zukunftsphilologie endeavors to promote and emphasise primary textual scholarship beyond the classical humanistic canon. In an age of advanced communication, intellectual specialisation, and unprecedented migration of knowledge and people, the discipline of philology assumes new relevance. Zukunftsphilologie aspires to support research in marginalised, undocumented and displaced varieties of philology by revisiting pre-colonial texts and scholarly traditions in Asia, Africa, the Middle East as well as in Europe. The title 'Zukunftsphilologie' is inspired by the 1872 polemic between the classicist Ulrich von Wilamowitz-Moellendorff and Friedrich Nietzsche on the method and meaning of classical studies. The project draws on recent calls for a return to philology as particularly emphasised by Sheldon Pollock in his essay 'Future Philology?' and the late Edward Said?s essay 'The Return to Philology'. In order to promote historically-conscious philology, the project will foster research in the following areas: the genealogy and transformations of philological practice, philology?s place in the system of knowledge (e.g. its relation to science, theology, and jurisprudence), philology and the university, and philology and empire. Zukunftsphilologie aims to examine the role mobility, calamities, expulsions, and natural catastrophes play in the dissemination and globalisation of knowledge. How does the mobility of scholars, books, and manuscripts bring about scientific innovation (e.g. in tenth-century Baghdad, during the European Renaissance, or during the Ming dynasty)? What kind of knowledge systems are also displaced by these processes of reorganisation? What transformations and translations accompany such mobilisations? In addition, Zukunftsphilologie aims to support critical reviews of historical and philological practice. In revisiting important philological debates, the goal is not to merely evaluate the argumentative worth of these debates, but to reflect on the wider cultural and political context in which these debates emerged and how they have shaped our knowledge of the past. The project Zukunftsphilologie is associated with and located at the Friedrich Schlegel Graduate School for Literary Studies at Freie Universitaet Berlin. Zukunftsphilologie is directed by Angelika Neuwirth and Islam Dayeh (both Freie Universitaet Berlin). CANDIDATES The fellowships are intended primarily for scholars of Arabic, Chinese, Hebrew, Persian, Sanskrit, Syriac, Turkish, and other linguistic and philological traditions from Africa, Asia and Europe, as well as for scholars of intellectual and literary history, of comparative linguistics, philology, religion and the history of science from outside Berlin, who wish to carry out their research projects in the framework of the initiative Zukunftsphilologie in Berlin. Applicants should be at the postdoctoral level and should have obtained their doctorate within the last five years. Fellows are given the opportunity to pursue research projects of their own choice, provided the topic falls within the research agenda of the project. In the overall context of the project Zukunftsphilologie, they will participate in regular working meetings of the project group as well as in lectures, conferences and summer and winter academies, organised by the project and by the Forum Transregionale Studien. PROJECTS Individual research projects should fall within one of the themes of the project Zukunftsphilologie. Projects should have a comparative perspective, whereby the plurality of textual practices, polyphonic textuality, and the trajectories and genealogies of philological traditions in early modernity are examined. For the year 2011/2012, research projects focusing on intellectual debates, polemics, correspondences, and transregional encounters are especially welcome. A revisiting of major philological debates will enable us to explore the significance of philology in the cultural and political transformations beyond the modern/pre-modern divide. Moreover, an examination of philological debates will shed light on marginal philological traditions and undocumented intellectual positions as well as the way in which the canonical positions were consolidated and normalised. FELLOWSHIPS start October 1, 2011, and will end on July 31, 2012. Shorter fellowship terms can be considered. Postdoctoral fellows will receive a monthly stipend of EUR 2.250 plus supplements depending on their personal situation. Organisational support, regarding visa, insurances, housing, etc. will be provided. Successful applicants will be fellows of the project Zukunftsphilologie at the Forum Transregionale Studien and associate members of the Friedrich Schlegel Graduate School for Literary Studies. Through this association they will be integrated into the Department of Philosophy and Humanities at the Freie Universitaet Berlin and will have access to an academic milieu of literary and philological Studies as well as to libraries and other research facilities. APPLICATION PROCEDURE To apply, please send the following documents in English exclusively by e-mail as separate word or PDF files. The letter of recommendation can be sent directly by e-mail. - a curriculum vitae - a project description (no longer than five pages), stating what the scholar will work on in Berlin if granted a fellowship - a sample of scholarly work (maximum 20 pages, article, book chapter, conference contribution) - a letter of recommendation from one academic faculty The application should be submitted in English and should be received by 17 January 2011, addressed to: zukunftsphilologie at trafo-berlin.de INSTITUTIONAL FRAMEWORK The Forum Transregionale Studien is a new research platform of the Land of Berlin designed to promote research that connects systematic and region-specific questions in a perspective that addresses entanglements and interactions beyond national, cultural or regional frames. The Forum works in tandem with established institutions and networks engaged in transregional studies and is supported by an association of the directors of research institutes and networks mainly based in Berlin. It started its activities in 2010 by supporting three research projects in the fields of law, philology, and urban sociology. The Forum Transregionale Studien is funded by the Senate of Berlin. For more information please see www.forum-transregionale-studien.de http://www.geisteswissenschaften.fu-berlin.de/en/friedrichschlegel/ Forum Transregionale Studien c/o Wissenschaftskolleg zu Berlin Attn: Georges Khalil Wallotstrasse 19, D-14193 Berlin / Germany ****************************************************************** To post to H-ASIA simply send your message to: For holidays or short absences send post to: with message: SET H-ASIA NOMAIL Upon return, send post with message SET H-ASIA MAIL H-ASIA WEB HOMEPAGE URL: http://h-net.msu.edu/~asia/ 1 From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Sat Nov 27 16:58:34 2010 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 10 17:58:34 +0100 Subject: Are diacritics NOW irrelevant ? (Re: [INDOLOGY] the koti Message-ID: <161227090912.23782.4526078565695218324.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2439 Lines: 65 On 26/11/2010 18:49, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Yes, Ifra's book is flawed, yes he is inconsistent and idiosyncratic in his > use of diacritical marks, and yes, subject-specialists will find points to > criticize sharply. And yet, and yet, one can still learn a great deal from > the book. Dear Dominik, it is quite clear from your comment that you think that some of the criticisms of the book under discussion are unfair or outrageous because the book is "path-breaking". All I am trying to say is that a "path-breaking" book (which belongs to the realm of RESEARCH) and a "reference book" (which belong to the realm of TEACHING) do not belong to the same category, and that "reference books" need to receive extra care, in order to avoid what is called in French "nivellement par le bas" (I do not know how to express that in English). Of course, the members of the INDOLOGY mailing list know that "koti" is in fact "ko.ti" (i.e. "crore") (and "koo.ti" in Tamil dictionaries). But why should you expect that every student will know that and will wisely correct what is found on the printed page (when quoting that "path-breaking" book) in order not to be stamped as an ignorant? It is NOT FAIR for the students. I have just read a very interesting book about Chidambaram [from Oxford University press] which was published in the mid-nineties and in which the name "pata~njali" is systematically written (a hundred times) as "pa.ta~njali" (with a retroflex t [i.e. ".t"]) How is a student supposed to know that this is wrong? A few months ago, I read a book concerning the "Dravidian oratory" published by Columbia University press in which dialogues in Tamil were reproduced without any diacritics (and in which there were other problems, as I have pointed out on a private basis to a few colleagues specialists of Tamil who agreed that it was highly problematic; for instance they had never heard of "ullurai aumam", as mentionned on page 105 in that book). Why print items which a student will not be able to reproduce as such without being considered as grossly ignorant? If Ifrah's book was a best-seller (I am happy for him), the publisher can certainly afford to release a corrected version with diacritics. Then it will be both a commercial success and a reference book that can honourably sit on everybody's shelf, including the famous Library of Congress. -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (EFEO/CNRS, Pondicherry) From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Sun Nov 28 03:44:44 2010 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 10 22:44:44 -0500 Subject: new EJVS issue 17-2: Vajracharya on Unicorns Message-ID: <161227090915.23782.5657681437089249159.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 736 Lines: 40 Dear List Members, we are happy to announce a new issue of the Electronic Journal of Vedic Studies: Vol.17 Issue 2, Nov. 29, 2010: Gautama V. Vajracharya Unicorns in Ancient India and Vedic Ritual It is available at: as quick download (compresssed pdf 1 MB) and as slower download (11 MB pdf). Issue 3 (Y. Vassilkov on Siberian rattle-mirrors with early Indian motifs) to follow shortly. Best, MW ============ Michael Witzel witzel at fas.harvard.edu Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University 1 Bow Street, Cambridge MA 02138, USA phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; my direct line: 617- 496 2990 From r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG Sun Nov 28 22:22:24 2010 From: r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 10 11:22:24 +1300 Subject: Are diacritics NOW irrelevant ? (Re: [INDOLOGY] the koti In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090923.23782.16108863442650434631.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3628 Lines: 90 On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 05:58:34PM +0100, Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD wrote: > On 26/11/2010 18:49, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > >Yes, Ifra's book is flawed, yes he is inconsistent and idiosyncratic in his > >use of diacritical marks, and yes, subject-specialists will find points to > >criticize sharply. And yet, and yet, one can still learn a great deal from > >the book. > > Dear Dominik, > > it is quite clear from your comment that you think that some of the > criticisms of the book under discussion are unfair or outrageous > because the book is "path-breaking". > > All I am trying to say is that a "path-breaking" book (which belongs > to the realm of RESEARCH) and a "reference book" (which belong to > the realm of TEACHING) do not belong to the same category, and that > "reference books" need to receive extra care, in order to avoid what > is called in French "nivellement par le bas" (I do not know how to > express that in English). [snip] > Why print items which a student will not be able to reproduce as > such without being considered as grossly ignorant? > > If Ifrah's book was a best-seller (I am happy for him), the > publisher can certainly afford to release a corrected version with > diacritics. > > Then it will be both a commercial success and a reference book that > can honourably sit on everybody's shelf, including the famous > Library of Congress. > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (EFEO/CNRS, Pondicherry) Jean-Luc, your comments remind me of another, though somewhat less recent, `best-seller'. A good number of years ago, when I was slowly crawling through the Oresteia, a colleague of my father's kindly gave me a number of volumes -- for my amusement than anything else. Amongst them was John Lempriere's Bibliotheca Classica / Classical Dictionary. This first left the press in the late 1780s but mine is the 20th edn of 1844 -- and wasn't to be the last! Anyway, in the preface, Lempriere is characteristically modest about the value of his work: ``In the following pages it has been the wish of the Author to give the most accurate and satisfactory account of all the proper names which occur in reading the Classics, and by a judicious collection of anecdotes and historical facts to draw a picture of ancient times not less instructive than entertaining. Such a work, it is hoped, will not be deemed an useless acquisition in the hands of the public; and while the student is initiated in the knowledge of history and mythology, and familiarized with the ancient situation and extent of kingdoms and cities that no longer exist, the man of letters may, perhaps, find it not a contemptible companion, from which he may receive information, and be made, a second time, acquainted with many important particulars which time, or more laborious occupations, may have erased from his memory.'' (v.) After having seen the scan of Ifrah and the various comments following I was curious to revisit Lempriere, see attached. Readers will draw their own conclusions but a quick comparison makes me wonder how much progress has been made during the the past 200 years. Kind regards, Richard -- Richard MAHONEY - Indica et Buddhica Littledene, Bay Road, OXFORD 7430, NZ PO Box 25, OXFORD 7443 +64 3 312 1699 / +64 275 829 986 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org http://indica-et-buddhica.org http://camera-antipodea.indica-et-buddhica.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: img011-cc.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 623995 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Tue Nov 30 10:52:19 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 10 04:52:19 -0600 Subject: prayojanaabhidheya In-Reply-To: <2E2F0DF8-535D-4C38-BD1E-C7D0DD1571BF@fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <161227090929.23782.15115067509322199631.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 383 Lines: 17 Dear colleagues, I'd be grateful for recommendations you may have for articles or book chapters treating prayojana-abhidheya-sambandha whether in Bauddha, Jaina, or Brahmanical sources. with thanks in advance, Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Tue Nov 30 19:49:08 2010 From: rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Richard Salomon) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 10 11:49:08 -0800 Subject: Fwd: [INDOLOGY] Are diacritics NOW irrelevant ? (Re: [INDOLOGY] the koti Message-ID: <161227090934.23782.11146144805074891854.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2159 Lines: 60 In this general connection, please see Stephen Chrisomalis' new "Numerical Notation: A Comparative History" (Cambridge, 2010), which (though not a collarorative effort as suggested) is intended to supersede Ifrah. My impression is that it will. The chapter on "South Asian Systems", at least, is very well done (although it does not address the issue of words for large numbers which started this thread, if memory serves), and the whole book is a very impressive performance. Rich Salomon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dominic Goodall" To: Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 4:19 AM Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] Are diacritics NOW irrelevant ? (Re: [INDOLOGY] the koti This must be intended for everyone, rather than just for me: Begin forwarded message: > From: > Date: 26 November 2010 4:34:36 PM GMT+05:30 > To: "Dominic Goodall" > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Are diacritics NOW irrelevant ? (Re: [INDOLOGY] > the koti > > > Ifrah's book suffers from the flaws of many large > synthetic works -- the author cannot be (and cannot > be expected to be!) -- a specialist in all the domains > treated. > > One might of course object: well then why not organize > a collaborative work by specialists? In response, I > offer the lopsided and barely coherent collection > of articles one finds in the Oxford Handbook of the > History of Mathematics (though many of the > articles, taken individually are useful and interesting). Multi-authored > works seldom attain > to the sort of synthesis that a work by a > single author may aspire to, even if flawed. > > It's certainly good to be aware of the shortcomings as > detailed in Dauben's review, and thanks to Dominic > for circulating it. > > But I don't think the case has been made yet to > abandon Ifrah's work like the plague. It's a work of > first reference, not of last recourse. > > Matthew T. Kapstein > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies > The University of Chicago Divinity School > Directeur d'?tudes > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From kengo.harimoto at UNI-HAMBURG.DE Tue Nov 30 13:02:16 2010 From: kengo.harimoto at UNI-HAMBURG.DE (Kengo Harimoto) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 10 14:02:16 +0100 Subject: prayojanaabhidheya In-Reply-To: <20101130045219.AFF18563@mstore02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227090932.23782.15130785123747272567.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1176 Lines: 39 As for Buddhist: @article{funayama:prayojana, author = {Toru Funayama}, title = {{A}rca\d{t}a, \'{S}\=antarak\d{s}ita, {J}inendrabuddhi, and {K}amala\'s\={\i}la on the Aim of a Treatise (\emph{prayojana})}, journal = wzks, volume = "39", pages = "181--201", year = 1995, } I am not aware of studies on the Brahmanical side, but I find Kum?rila's ?lokav?rttika, Pratij??s?tra 11?25, the beginnings of Ny?yabh??ya/Ny?yav?rttika, to be relatively early treatment of the issue. Interesting is the beginning of the Vaiy?kara?amah?bh??ya where those terms, though pad?rtha instead of abhidheya, are used but in a different context. -- kengo harimoto On Nov 30, 2010, at 11:52 , mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > I'd be grateful for recommendations you may have > for articles or book chapters treating > prayojana-abhidheya-sambandha > whether in Bauddha, Jaina, or Brahmanical sources. > > with thanks in advance, > > Matthew T. Kapstein > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies > The University of Chicago Divinity School > Directeur d'?tudes > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Nov 30 22:38:55 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 10 23:38:55 +0100 Subject: Fwd: [INDOLOGY] Are diacritics NOW irrelevant ? (Re: [INDOLOGY] the koti In-Reply-To: <08BDDC653375443C96A4CF573CE81396@D3QMPYK1> Message-ID: <161227090936.23782.657793129799147529.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2401 Lines: 72 Thank you, Richard, I didn't know this book and I'll check it out asap. Best, Dominik On 30 November 2010 20:49, Richard Salomon wrote: > In this general connection, please see Stephen Chrisomalis' new "Numerical > Notation: A Comparative History" (Cambridge, 2010), which (though not a > collarorative effort as suggested) is intended to supersede Ifrah. My > impression is that it will. The chapter on "South Asian Systems", at least, > is very well done (although it does not address the issue of words for large > numbers which started this thread, if memory serves), and the whole book is > a very impressive performance. > > Rich Salomon > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dominic Goodall" < > dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM> > To: > Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 4:19 AM > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] Are diacritics NOW irrelevant ? (Re: > [INDOLOGY] the koti > > > > This must be intended for everyone, rather than just for me: > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: >> Date: 26 November 2010 4:34:36 PM GMT+05:30 >> To: "Dominic Goodall" >> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Are diacritics NOW irrelevant ? (Re: [INDOLOGY] >> the koti >> >> >> Ifrah's book suffers from the flaws of many large >> synthetic works -- the author cannot be (and cannot >> be expected to be!) -- a specialist in all the domains >> treated. >> >> One might of course object: well then why not organize >> a collaborative work by specialists? In response, I >> offer the lopsided and barely coherent collection >> of articles one finds in the Oxford Handbook of the >> History of Mathematics (though many of the >> articles, taken individually are useful and interesting). Multi-authored >> works seldom attain >> to the sort of synthesis that a work by a >> single author may aspire to, even if flawed. >> >> It's certainly good to be aware of the shortcomings as >> detailed in Dauben's review, and thanks to Dominic >> for circulating it. >> >> But I don't think the case has been made yet to >> abandon Ifrah's work like the plague. It's a work of >> first reference, not of last recourse. >> >> Matthew T. Kapstein >> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies >> The University of Chicago Divinity School >> Directeur d'?tudes >> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris >> > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Nov 30 23:51:30 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 01 Dec 10 00:51:30 +0100 Subject: Fwd: [INDOLOGY] Are diacritics NOW irrelevant ? (Re: [INDOLOGY] the koti In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090939.23782.1866626657250176200.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6778 Lines: 162 Chrisomalis says, Although I disagree with his conclusions in many places, I thank Georges > Ifrah, > whose gargantuan and important *Histoire universelle des chiffres* (1998) > inspired me > to produce this volume. > A browse through the book shows that Chrisomalis cites Ifrah pervasively as a standard source, only criticising him explicitly on a few occasions. I very much like Chrisomalis' opening criticism aimed at those who praise our current internationalized counting system as being in some sense a pinnacle of achievement. Chrisomalis argues that it is possible to imagine other counting systems that would serve us just as well, if not better. > There is no ideal numerical notation system; rather, each system is shaped > by > a set of goals that its users and inventors seek to attain, and that they > can achieve > only by compromising on other factors. There may be patterns of change > among > systems, but the burden of proof lies with those who wish to maintain that > nu- > merical notation evolves in a unilinear sequence. (p.19) > I have made more or less the same point myself in the past. I find it quite odd that Chrisomalis doesn't mention Pingree anywhere in his book or bibliography. Perhaps it's true that David didn't write much about numerical notation as such, but his studies on cultural contacts and the chronology of communication amongst ancient and medieval mathematicians are fundamental, including his work on Arab-Indian contacts, and I would have expected to see at least an *awareness* of his oevre. Pingree's CESS and *Astral Literature* are fundamental reference works, even for well-known figures like Brahmagupta or ?ryabha?a, and especially for getting the chronology right. Chrisomalis refers to Sphujidhvaja's *Yavanajataka* on p.195, but via Yano and without reference to Pingree's critical edition and study of the work. Kim Plofker is cited, though not her new book (which only came out a year before Chrisomalis'). By contrast, Kaye's 1907 and 1919 terribly biassed articles are taken seriously. More seriously, there is no mention anywhere of the Bakhshali manuscript, of Hayashi's 1995 edition of it, and his important argument that it provides us the first written zero in India (Chrisomalis still refers to the Gwalior inscription, p.213). Chrisomalis doesn't mention Brahmagupta, the first South Asian mathematician actually to discuss zero in theoretical terms. And he follows Datta and Singh (1935) in placing Panini in the seventh century BC (p.205). In fact, he cites a lot of secondary sources from before the war, and few from the last two decades. Finally, [Jean-Luc] I'm sorry to have to say that Chrisomalis is no better at getting his diacritical marks right than Ifrah. They are a mixture of erratic, wrong, and obsolete. So, "ka?apay?di" is "katapayadi" which undermines the very point of ?ryabha?a's ("?ryabhata"'s) achievement. He says, The name katapay?di [sic] itself is taken from the four syllables (ka, ta [sic], pa, ya) that are assigned the value 1 in this system. (p.209) But in his chart of the ka?apay?di scheme on the next page, the transliteration is correct. At the same time Chrisomalis and his editors have put a huge amount of effort into getting the Asian scripts right. I haven't found a mistake yet in the N?gar?, though I haven't looked systematically or comprehensively. When he can make a good effort for the Asian scripts, it's hard to understand the lack of care over the material in Latin script, that is in principle so much easier to handle. Chrisomalis' difficulties with transliteration are somewhat ironic in a book about notation. There's no question that this book is a major contribution (as is the money need to buy it), but I think it's South Asia chapter has to be read together with Ifrah, not instead of. And the poor spelling (which is what wrong diacritics are), coupled with the absence of reference to important, relevant work of the last 15 years, especially by Hayashi, means that unfortunately it still cannot, in my view, be considered a definitive work. Like Ifrah, it is extremely interesting, and worth reading (if your interests lie in this direction). Best, Dominik On 30 November 2010 23:38, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Thank you, Richard, I didn't know this book and I'll check it out asap. > > Best, > Dominik > > > > > On 30 November 2010 20:49, Richard Salomon wrote: > >> In this general connection, please see Stephen Chrisomalis' new >> "Numerical Notation: A Comparative History" (Cambridge, 2010), which >> (though not a collarorative effort as suggested) is intended to supersede >> Ifrah. My impression is that it will. The chapter on "South Asian Systems", >> at least, is very well done (although it does not address the issue of words >> for large numbers which started this thread, if memory serves), and the >> whole book is a very impressive performance. >> >> Rich Salomon >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dominic Goodall" < >> dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM> >> To: >> Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 4:19 AM >> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] Are diacritics NOW irrelevant ? (Re: >> [INDOLOGY] the koti >> >> >> >> This must be intended for everyone, rather than just for me: >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> From: >>> Date: 26 November 2010 4:34:36 PM GMT+05:30 >>> To: "Dominic Goodall" >>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Are diacritics NOW irrelevant ? (Re: [INDOLOGY] >>> the koti >>> >>> >>> Ifrah's book suffers from the flaws of many large >>> synthetic works -- the author cannot be (and cannot >>> be expected to be!) -- a specialist in all the domains >>> treated. >>> >>> One might of course object: well then why not organize >>> a collaborative work by specialists? In response, I >>> offer the lopsided and barely coherent collection >>> of articles one finds in the Oxford Handbook of the >>> History of Mathematics (though many of the >>> articles, taken individually are useful and interesting). Multi-authored >>> works seldom attain >>> to the sort of synthesis that a work by a >>> single author may aspire to, even if flawed. >>> >>> It's certainly good to be aware of the shortcomings as >>> detailed in Dauben's review, and thanks to Dominic >>> for circulating it. >>> >>> But I don't think the case has been made yet to >>> abandon Ifrah's work like the plague. It's a work of >>> first reference, not of last recourse. >>> >>> Matthew T. Kapstein >>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies >>> The University of Chicago Divinity School >>> Directeur d'?tudes >>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris >>> >> > From jmdelire at ULB.AC.BE Fri Nov 19 16:18:24 2010 From: jmdelire at ULB.AC.BE (by way of Jean-Michel Delire (jmdelire@ulb.ac.be)) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 10 17:18:24 +0100 Subject: the koti Message-ID: <161227090845.23782.3632457294176555753.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1102 Lines: 31 Dear Colleagues, The Aryabhatiya (499 AD) actually defines koti as the 7th power of ten in chapter II (Ganita) 2, which enumerates the successive powers of ten, from one (= ten to the power of zero) : eka.m da'sa ca 'sata.m ca sahasramayutaniyute tathaa prayutam / ko.tyarbuda.m ca v.rnda.m sthaanaat sthaana.m da'sagu.na.m syaat // J.M.Delire, Lecturer on "Science and civilization in India - Sanskrit texts", IHEB (University of Brussels) >Dear Colleagues, > >I have a question that Randy Kloetzli has asked me to communicate to INDOLOGY: "Is there some scholarship regarding the number known as the koti? Its value is 10 to the 7th power or 1 followed by 7 zeroes. Monier-Williams says only that it is the largest of the old order of numbers." > >If a conversation emerges here, I will communicate it to Randy. Or you could write him offline at catrandu at comcast.net. > >Thanks, Alf > >Alf Hiltebeitel >Professor of Religion, History and Human Sciences >Department of Religion >2106 G Street, NW >George Washington University >Washington DC 20052 > > no attachments have been sent From asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI Fri Oct 1 13:01:21 2010 From: asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI (Asko Parpola) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 10 16:01:21 +0300 Subject: New volume of the Corpus of Indus Seals and Inscriptions Message-ID: <161227090341.23782.14390057696450878882.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2886 Lines: 57 The Corpus of Indus Seals and Inscriptions (CISI) has as its purpose to make available for research, in as good photographs as possible, all available seals and inscriptions relating to the Indus Civilization, including its Early Harappan and Late Harappan phases of development. This material is fundamental for the research of the poorly understood script, language, and religion of the Indus Civilization, and a major outlet for its art. The seals and other types of inscribed artefacts are also important for the study of the Harappan social, political and economic organization, including administrative practices, external cultural contacts, internal trade and various techniques, such as seal carving. The Indus Civilization flourished in Pakistan and Northwestern India, and its Mature phase is date to 2600-1900 BCE. The CISI is published by the Finnish Academy of Sciences and Letters, with the financial assistance of UNESCO on the recommendation of the International Council for Philosophy and Humanistic Studies, and in collaboration with the Archaeological Survey of India, the Department of Archaeology and Museums, Government of Pakistan, as well as numerous excavation projects and museums. Released in June 2010: Volume 3: New material, untraced objects, and collections outside India and Pakistan, edited by Asko Parpola, B. M. Pande and Petteri Koskikallio. Part 1: Mohenjo-daro and Harappa, in collaboration with Richard H. Meadow and J. Mark Kenoyer. (Annales Academiae Scientiarum Fennicae, Humaniora 359 & Memoirs of the Archaeological Survey of India, No. 96.) Helsinki: Suomalainen Tiedeakatemia, 2010. 4:o (30 x 21 cm) Lx, 444 pp., with 3761 b/w and 125 colour photographs, 154 line drawings and 2 tables. Hardbound 295 ?. ISBN 978-951-41-1040-5. Still available: Volume 1: Collections in India, edited by Jagat Pati Joshi and Asko Parpola. (Annales Academiae Scientiarum Fennicae, Series B 239 & Memoirs of the Archaeological Survey of India, No. 86). Helsinki: Suomalainen Tiedeakatemia, 1987. 4:o (30 x 21 cm) xxxii, 392 pp., with c. 3900 b/w and 35 colour photographs. one table and a map. Hardbound 195 ?. ISBN 951-41-0555-9. Volume 2: Collections in Pakistan, edited by Sayid Ghulam Mustafa Shah and Asko Parpola. (Annales Academiae Scientiarum Fennicae, Series B 240 & Memoirs of the Department of Archaeology and Museums, Government of Pakistan, 5.) Helsinki: Suomalainen Tiedeakatemia, 1991. 4:o (30 x 21 cm) xxxii, 448 pp., with 5417 b/w and 36 colour photographs, two tables and a map. Hardbound 195 ?. ISBN 951-41-0556-7. Special offer: Volumes 1, 2 and 3.1 bought together 595 ?. Distributor: Bookstore Tiedekirja, Kirkkokatu 14, FI-00170 Helsinki, Finland. Telephone +358-9-635 177, Fax +358-9-635 017, e-mail: tiedekirja at tsv.fi Webstore: www.tiedekirja.fi From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Oct 1 21:29:59 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 10 23:29:59 +0200 Subject: Google Latin translator Message-ID: <161227090343.23782.3512659482197180930.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 107 Lines: 8 Google has just introduced a Latin translator :-) http://translate.google.com/?sl=la&tl=en#la%7Cen DW From avandergeer at PLANET.NL Sat Oct 2 11:35:54 2010 From: avandergeer at PLANET.NL (Alexandra Vandergeer) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 10 13:35:54 +0200 Subject: Google Latin translator Message-ID: <161227090345.23782.9299838438138441936.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 472 Lines: 24 It is a word-by-word translation, not based on grammer: I came, I saw, I conquered -> Veni Vidi Vici I came, I saw, and I conquered -> Veni Vidi Vici et Alexandra van der Geer ________________________________ From: Indology on behalf of Dominik Wujastyk Sent: Sat 2-10-2010 0:29 To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Google Latin translator Google has just introduced a Latin translator :-) http://translate.google.com/?sl=la&tl=en#la%7Cen DW From avandergeer at PLANET.NL Sat Oct 2 11:40:26 2010 From: avandergeer at PLANET.NL (Alexandra Vandergeer) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 10 13:40:26 +0200 Subject: Google Latin translator Message-ID: <161227090347.23782.12754242518817774113.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 420 Lines: 23 Sorry about the 'grammer', lapsus calami ________________________________ From: Indology on behalf of Alexandra Vandergeer Sent: Sat 2-10-2010 14:35 To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Google Latin translator It is a word-by-word translation, not based on grammer: I came, I saw, I conquered -> Veni Vidi Vici I came, I saw, and I conquered -> Veni Vidi Vici et Alexandra van der Geer From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Oct 3 15:08:51 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 10 17:08:51 +0200 Subject: SARIT service faulty Message-ID: <161227090349.23782.2141155209689090282.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 280 Lines: 10 There is currently a fault with the SARIT.indology.info search and indexing service. We are actively investigating the problem and will announce resumed service as soon as possible. In the meantime, my apologies for the loss of service. Dr Dominik Wujastyk SARIT, INDOLOGY. From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Oct 3 17:36:27 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 10 19:36:27 +0200 Subject: SARIT service faulty In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090352.23782.13038558117000984099.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 523 Lines: 21 The SARIT service has been repaired and seems to be working fine again now. Many thanks to Patrick Mc Allister, who sorted the problem out. Dominik On 3 October 2010 17:08, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > There is currently a fault with the SARIT.indology.info search and > indexing service. We are actively investigating the problem and will > announce resumed service as soon as possible. In the meantime, my apologies > for the loss of service. > > Dr Dominik Wujastyk > SARIT, INDOLOGY. > > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Oct 5 09:52:12 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 10 11:52:12 +0200 Subject: SARIT problems Message-ID: <161227090354.23782.5683418973538094445.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 168 Lines: 7 I'm afraid the problems with the SARIT.indology.info web interface have resurfaced. Our apologies. Service will be resumed as soon as possible. Dominik Wujastyk From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Oct 5 17:44:17 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 10 19:44:17 +0200 Subject: SARIT problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090357.23782.7860799937491548952.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 345 Lines: 13 The problems with SARIT.indology.info now appear to be solved. Thank you for your patience. On 5 October 2010 11:52, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > I'm afraid the problems with the SARIT.indology.info web interface have > resurfaced. Our apologies. Service will be resumed as soon as possible. > > Dominik Wujastyk > From palaniappa at AOL.COM Wed Oct 6 04:23:21 2010 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 10 00:23:21 -0400 Subject: The significance of "mOci" in the name mOci kIran2Ar, the Classical Tamil poet Message-ID: <161227090360.23782.598556891445488200.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 740 Lines: 28 Dear Scholars, There are Classical Tamil poets whose names contain the component 'mOci' and there have been questions about the significance of 'mOci' and the social status of poets like mOci kIran2Ar. The following text in inscription ARE 97/1927-28 in Tiruppukalur shows that most probably mOci was a gotra name and mOci kIran2Ar was a brahmin. ... sabhaiyuLLiruntu [paNittAr] nArAyaNan tirukkaNNapuramuTaiyAn mOci canAttanan tirucciRRampalamuTaiyAn k[A]ciyapan kEcavan tirukkaNNapuramuTaiyAn kAppiyan2 kaNapati paRpanApan [kAciyapan nArAyaNa] paTTan pArattuvAci cEntan cuppiramaNyan?...kATan pAlAciriyan kOvalan tirukaNNapurattammAn uLLittAr paNiyAl piramANam ezutinEn ivvUr karaNattAn2 ... Regards, Palaniappan From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Wed Oct 6 09:50:52 2010 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 10 11:50:52 +0200 Subject: Quotation from a metrical ga.napaa.tha In-Reply-To: <8CD3325560F5B2F-1160-A6A1@webmail-m020.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <161227090363.23782.16632618564244801678.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 796 Lines: 31 Dear Colleagues, from which metrical ga.napaa.tha could come the following /sloka, related to Paa.nini 5.2.116 (g. vriihyaadi) and quoted with slight variant by two commentators ad Kaalidaasa's Megh. 45 : vriihi.h /sikhaa.s.takaa maalaa pataakaa varmakarma.nii [var. karmavarma.nii] | mekhalaa ba.dabaa vii.naa sa.mj?aa carma valaakayaa [var. chadmabalaakayo.h] || Thank you for your help, remembering the 1940 footnote by Renou (Durgha.tav.rtti 1/1 p. 14): "Une ?dition critique et synoptique des ga.na serait hautement d?sirable" ... Christophe Vielle -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ -- Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of storage free. http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Wed Oct 6 11:53:15 2010 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 10 13:53:15 +0200 Subject: Experience with "Critical" edition of Kanjur and Tanjur Message-ID: <161227090366.23782.2476297864737425037.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 556 Lines: 18 My sincere thanks to all who sent such useful advice about the Chinese editions of Kanjur and Tanjur. Unfortunately, our librarian now informs us that the editions cost 20,000 euros (I suspect that this also does not include shipping), so, well, no purchase here I'm afraid. It is however nice to know that it seems to be a useful publication. With thanks, Jonathan Silk -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Oct 6 19:18:27 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 10 15:18:27 -0400 Subject: "African Elites in India" - Lecture and Book Signing Message-ID: <161227090371.23782.17646579049399245679.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1153 Lines: 33 The African Section African and Middle Eastern Division and the Asian Division Library of Congress in conjunction with the Embassy of India Invite you to a Lecture and Book Signing Free and Open to the Public "African Elites in India" "India is the only place in the world where black African ruled over non-Africans." A new scholarly book African Elites in India edited by Kenneth X. Robbins and John McLeod tells the story of powerful Indo-Africans who were rulers, statesmen, soldiers, and builders of beautiful mosques. Dr. Robbins identified many Africans in the Deccani, Mughal, and Rajput paintings which are reproduced among the almost 350 high quality images in the book. Thursday, October 14, 2010 12 Noon - 1:00 PM African and Middle Eastern Reading Room Thomas Jefferson Building LJ-220 10 First St. S.E. Washington, D.C. 20540 (near Capital South Metro) For additional information contact: Marieta Harper (202) 707-1960 or mhar at loc.gov Please allow time to clear security Request ADA accommodations five business days in advance at (202) 707-6362 (voice/TTY) or email ADA at loc.gov From jemhouben at GMAIL.COM Wed Oct 6 14:34:57 2010 From: jemhouben at GMAIL.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 10 16:34:57 +0200 Subject: colloque international en l'honneur de Charles Malamoud Message-ID: <161227090368.23782.10821603425502196225.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 623 Lines: 26 Dear Friends, An international seminar "Aux abords de la clairi?re" in honor of Charles Malamoud will start in Paris on 7 October 2010. CdF site: http://www.college-de-france.fr/default/EN/all/act_eve/les_7_et_8_octobre_2010_colloq.htm EPHE site: http://www.ephe.sorbonne.fr/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1763&Itemid=31 EHESS site: http://calenda.revues.org/nouvelle17446.html JH -- Prof. Dr. Jan E.M. Houben, Directeur d Etudes ? Sources et Histoire de la Tradition Sanskrite ? Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, SHP, A la Sorbonne,45-47, rue des Ecoles, 75005 Paris -- France. JEMHouben at gmail.com From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Thu Oct 7 14:11:30 2010 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 10 16:11:30 +0200 Subject: GRETIL update #378 Message-ID: <161227090374.23782.3662667192537325396.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 553 Lines: 20 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Mammata: Kavyaprakasa __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From annamisia at YAHOO.COM Fri Oct 8 07:25:22 2010 From: annamisia at YAHOO.COM (Anna A. Slaczka) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 10 00:25:22 -0700 Subject: help with dates, please In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090387.23782.353823528046991799.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1961 Lines: 70 Yes, these are bhUtasaMkhyAs. I would suggest searching in the Monier-Williams first. Many bhUtasaMkhyAs are listed there. Then look at glossaries of editions of some zilpazAstras and Agamas where the bhUtasaMkhyAs occur very frequently. See for example the Mayamata edition by Dagens and the publications of the French Institute of Indology in Pondicherry. Best, Anna Slaczka Rijksmuseum Amsterdam The Netherlands --- On Fri, 10/8/10, James Hartzell wrote: > From: James Hartzell > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] help with dates, please > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Friday, October 8, 2010, 8:01 AM > I meant to add, the official name of > this system, as far as I know, is the bhUta-saMkhyA system. > > > On Oct 8, 2010, at 7:18 AM, McComas Taylor wrote: > > > Dear Colleague, > > > > An excellent student of Sanskrit, Mr Aung Than of > Sydney, has asked for some help with dates: > > > > "I would like to ask you some questions if you can > help me. Some time we can find some writing for year or date > as below, where can I find the information about the numbers > used in the word form. > > sindhu bindu veda candra shAka > > bAna bAna veda candra shAka > > mahi sindhu bhuta indu shAka > > shAka = shakabdA (shAka era) > > I could guess sindhu (sapta sindhu) = 7, bindu (dot) = > 0, veda (catur veda) = 4, bhuta (panca bhuta) = 5, > > indu = candra = ? > > bAna = ? > > mahi = ?" > > > > Is there some kind person out there who can help out? > > > > Yours > > > > McComas > > > > > > > > -- > > =============================== > > Dr McComas Taylor > > Head, South Asia Program > > College of Asia and the Pacific > > The Australian National University > > ACTON ACT 0200 > > > > Tel: +61 2 6125 3179 > > Fax: +61 2 6125 8326 > > > > Email: mccomas.taylor at anu.edu.au > > http://tinyurl.com/38cj94n > > Location: Room E4.24 Baldessin Precinct Building > From james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM Fri Oct 8 05:56:50 2010 From: james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM (James Hartzell) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 10 07:56:50 +0200 Subject: help with dates, please In-Reply-To: <4CAEA9BE.7040901@anu.edu.au> Message-ID: <161227090380.23782.7124131031613203999.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1253 Lines: 48 Dear MComas Candra is likely = one, since there is one moon. bANa (retroflex n) probably = five, since kAma carries five arrows mahi I'm not sure of; if it's mahI (the earth) it may also = one yours James Hartzell > Dear Colleague, > > An excellent student of Sanskrit, Mr Aung Than of Sydney, has asked for some help with dates: > > "I would like to ask you some questions if you can help me. Some time we can find some writing for year or date as below, where can I find the information about the numbers used in the word form. > sindhu bindu veda candra shAka > bAna bAna veda candra shAka > mahi sindhu bhuta indu shAka > shAka = shakabdA (shAka era) > I could guess sindhu (sapta sindhu) = 7, bindu (dot) = 0, veda (catur veda) = 4, bhuta (panca bhuta) = 5, > indu = candra = ? > bAna = ? > mahi = ?" > > Is there some kind person out there who can help out? > > Yours > > McComas > > > > -- > =============================== > Dr McComas Taylor > Head, South Asia Program > College of Asia and the Pacific > The Australian National University > ACTON ACT 0200 > > Tel: +61 2 6125 3179 > Fax: +61 2 6125 8326 > > Email: mccomas.taylor at anu.edu.au > http://tinyurl.com/38cj94n > Location: Room E4.24 Baldessin Precinct Building From james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM Fri Oct 8 06:01:04 2010 From: james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM (James Hartzell) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 10 08:01:04 +0200 Subject: help with dates, please In-Reply-To: <4CAEA9BE.7040901@anu.edu.au> Message-ID: <161227090383.23782.14700176673539476721.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1185 Lines: 43 I meant to add, the official name of this system, as far as I know, is the bhUta-saMkhyA system. On Oct 8, 2010, at 7:18 AM, McComas Taylor wrote: > Dear Colleague, > > An excellent student of Sanskrit, Mr Aung Than of Sydney, has asked for some help with dates: > > "I would like to ask you some questions if you can help me. Some time we can find some writing for year or date as below, where can I find the information about the numbers used in the word form. > sindhu bindu veda candra shAka > bAna bAna veda candra shAka > mahi sindhu bhuta indu shAka > shAka = shakabdA (shAka era) > I could guess sindhu (sapta sindhu) = 7, bindu (dot) = 0, veda (catur veda) = 4, bhuta (panca bhuta) = 5, > indu = candra = ? > bAna = ? > mahi = ?" > > Is there some kind person out there who can help out? > > Yours > > McComas > > > > -- > =============================== > Dr McComas Taylor > Head, South Asia Program > College of Asia and the Pacific > The Australian National University > ACTON ACT 0200 > > Tel: +61 2 6125 3179 > Fax: +61 2 6125 8326 > > Email: mccomas.taylor at anu.edu.au > http://tinyurl.com/38cj94n > Location: Room E4.24 Baldessin Precinct Building From wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK Fri Oct 8 07:39:18 2010 From: wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK (Whitney Cox) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 10 08:39:18 +0100 Subject: help with dates, please In-Reply-To: <2FE464FD-05C6-4011-B610-18965AF7643D@uni-bonn.de> Message-ID: <161227090393.23782.4881714874149245470.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1094 Lines: 44 There is also a useful list of the more common bh?tasa?khy?-s in an appendix to Tome II of Renou and Filliozat's l'Inde Classique, wc On 8 October 2010 08:36, Peter Wyzlic wrote: > Am 08.10.2010 um 09:25 schrieb Anna A. Slaczka: > > > Yes, these are bhUtasaMkhyAs. > > I would suggest searching in the Monier-Williams first. Many > bhUtasaMkhyAs are listed there. Then look at glossaries of editions of some > zilpazAstras and Agamas where the bhUtasaMkhyAs occur very frequently. See > for example the Mayamata edition by Dagens and the publications of the > French Institute of Indology in Pondicherry. > > > > Another useful publication is D. C. Sircar's "Indian epigraphical glossary" > (Delhi, 1966, maybe there are later reprints). > > Hope it helps > Peter Wyzlic > > -- > Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften > Bibliothek > Universit?t Bonn > Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 > 53113 Bonn > -- Dr. Whitney Cox Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, School of Oriental and African Studies Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square London WC1H 0XG From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Fri Oct 8 07:36:19 2010 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 10 09:36:19 +0200 Subject: help with dates, please In-Reply-To: <78365.20132.qm@web55907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227090390.23782.12826805668761194935.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 676 Lines: 20 Am 08.10.2010 um 09:25 schrieb Anna A. Slaczka: > Yes, these are bhUtasaMkhyAs. > I would suggest searching in the Monier-Williams first. Many bhUtasaMkhyAs are listed there. Then look at glossaries of editions of some zilpazAstras and Agamas where the bhUtasaMkhyAs occur very frequently. See for example the Mayamata edition by Dagens and the publications of the French Institute of Indology in Pondicherry. > Another useful publication is D. C. Sircar's "Indian epigraphical glossary" (Delhi, 1966, maybe there are later reprints). Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn From franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Fri Oct 8 13:12:13 2010 From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE (Eli Franco) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 10 15:12:13 +0200 Subject: Jayarasi In-Reply-To: <20100204080116.CJF57500@m4500-02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227090398.23782.14098605036780753670.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 130 Lines: 9 Dear Matthew, How are you? If it's not too much trouble, I would appreciate an up-date about that volume. All the best, Eli From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Fri Oct 8 10:19:39 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 10 15:49:39 +0530 Subject: help with dates, please In-Reply-To: <4CAEA9BE.7040901@anu.edu.au> Message-ID: <161227090395.23782.4018225576653757845.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1380 Lines: 61 In case?someone has aleady provided the answer off the list please ignore the following. indu=candra=1 bANa =5 mahi= 1 Best DB ? ? --- On Fri, 8/10/10, McComas Taylor wrote: From: McComas Taylor Subject: [INDOLOGY] help with dates, please To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Friday, 8 October, 2010, 5:18 AM Dear Colleague, An excellent student of Sanskrit, Mr Aung Than of Sydney, has asked for some help with dates: "I would like to ask you some questions if you can help me. Some time we can find some writing for year or date as below, where can I find the information about the numbers used in the word form. sindhu bindu veda candra shAka bAna bAna veda candra shAka mahi sindhu bhuta indu shAka shAka = shakabdA (shAka era) I could guess sindhu (sapta sindhu) = 7, bindu (dot) = 0, veda (catur veda) = 4, bhuta (panca bhuta) = 5, indu = candra = ? bAna = ? mahi = ?" Is there some kind person out there who can help out? Yours McComas -- =============================== Dr McComas Taylor Head, South Asia Program College of Asia and the Pacific The Australian National University ACTON ACT 0200 Tel: +61 2 6125 3179 Fax: +61 2 6125 8326 Email: mccomas.taylor at anu.edu.au http://tinyurl.com/38cj94n Location: Room E4.24 Baldessin Precinct Building From mccomas.taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Fri Oct 8 05:18:54 2010 From: mccomas.taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 10 16:18:54 +1100 Subject: help with dates, please Message-ID: <161227090377.23782.8686897867576953038.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 969 Lines: 44 Dear Colleague, An excellent student of Sanskrit, Mr Aung Than of Sydney, has asked for some help with dates: "I would like to ask you some questions if you can help me. Some time we can find some writing for year or date as below, where can I find the information about the numbers used in the word form. sindhu bindu veda candra shAka bAna bAna veda candra shAka mahi sindhu bhuta indu shAka shAka = shakabdA (shAka era) I could guess sindhu (sapta sindhu) = 7, bindu (dot) = 0, veda (catur veda) = 4, bhuta (panca bhuta) = 5, indu = candra = ? bAna = ? mahi = ?" Is there some kind person out there who can help out? Yours McComas -- =============================== Dr McComas Taylor Head, South Asia Program College of Asia and the Pacific The Australian National University ACTON ACT 0200 Tel: +61 2 6125 3179 Fax: +61 2 6125 8326 Email: mccomas.taylor at anu.edu.au http://tinyurl.com/38cj94n Location: Room E4.24 Baldessin Precinct Building From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Sat Oct 9 09:00:45 2010 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 10 11:00:45 +0200 Subject: Sir Richard Temple's publications In-Reply-To: <646313.35720.qm@web94806.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227090404.23782.11326618147510031053.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 827 Lines: 24 Am 09.10.2010 um 07:58 schrieb Dipak Bhattacharya: > Does anyone have a complete list of Sir Richard Temple's (Indian Antiquary) works, particularly his papers? The information may be sent off-list, if so desired. Concerning the contents of Indian Antiquary, there are bibliographies by Sibadas Chaudhuri: Chaudhuri, Sibadas: _Descriptive Index to the Indian Antiquary, Bombay: Vol. 1 to Vol. 62, 1872-1933_. Calcutta: Firma K.L.M. Private [for] Centre for Asian Dokumentation, 1978. (Index Asia series in humanities, 9) and Chaudhuri, Sibadas: Index to the New Indian Antiquary, Bombay, 1938-1947. Calcutta: Centre for Asian Dokumentation, 1977. (Index Asia series in humanities, 8) hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Sat Oct 9 05:58:40 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 10 11:28:40 +0530 Subject: Sir Richard Temple's publications Message-ID: <161227090401.23782.14519784477699784356.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 202 Lines: 10 Dear All, Does anyone have a complete list of Sir Richard Temple's (Indian Antiquary)?works, particularly his papers? The information may be sent off-list, if so desired. Thanks in advance Best DB From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Sat Oct 9 11:10:43 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 10 16:40:43 +0530 Subject: Sir Richard Temple's publications In-Reply-To: <9FAACB44-125B-4F2C-AF62-6D84F9D6C010@uni-bonn.de> Message-ID: <161227090407.23782.17931643237445278137.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1237 Lines: 41 Thanks! I think nothing is available online. Our library lacks Choudhury's Biblography. But I will consult at the AS, Kolkata Thanks again in any case. Best DB --- On Sat, 9/10/10, Peter Wyzlic wrote: From: Peter Wyzlic Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sir Richard Temple's publications To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Saturday, 9 October, 2010, 9:00 AM Am 09.10.2010 um 07:58 schrieb Dipak Bhattacharya: > Does anyone have a complete list of Sir Richard Temple's (Indian Antiquary) works, particularly his papers? The information may be sent off-list, if so desired. Concerning the contents of Indian Antiquary, there are bibliographies by Sibadas Chaudhuri: Chaudhuri, Sibadas: _Descriptive Index to the Indian Antiquary, Bombay: Vol. 1 to Vol. 62, 1872-1933_. Calcutta: Firma K.L.M. Private [for] Centre for Asian Dokumentation, 1978. (Index Asia series in humanities, 9) and Chaudhuri, Sibadas: Index to the New Indian Antiquary, Bombay, 1938-1947. Calcutta: Centre for Asian Dokumentation, 1977. (Index Asia series in humanities, 8) hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sat Oct 9 17:42:54 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 10 19:42:54 +0200 Subject: Bhajan Lal MSS dealer Message-ID: <161227090410.23782.2180143141822359848.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 519 Lines: 15 Has anyone come across the bookseller and manuscript dealer Bhajan Lal, who was active in Amritsar and Bharatpur in the 1920s-1940s? He sold many manuscripts through Banarsi Das, Lecturer in Hindi at Lahore Oriental College (and colleague of Woolner), both to Lahore and to the Wellcome Library in London. Many MSS in these collections have his distinctive dealers label stuck to their covers. I would be interested to hear whether anyone else has come across this Bhajan Lal. Best, and thanks, Dominik Wujastyk From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Oct 10 06:26:27 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 10 08:26:27 +0200 Subject: Bhajan Lal MSS dealer In-Reply-To: <332214.15175.qm@web94813.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227090417.23782.18332259405738803201.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1532 Lines: 47 Are you referring to the MSS that are today in the DAV College, Chandigarh? I am not aware of any VVRI MSS having gone back to Lahore after partition. An important collection of Sarada MSS was given (sold?) to the VVRI in the 1930s by Dr Paira Mall, who lived in Amritsar, and also bought MSS from Bhajan Lal, I believe. Dominik On 10 October 2010 07:16, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > One of the most prominent collectors/preservers at that time was the then > nascent VVRI Institute, Lahore, later shifted to Hosiarpur. They survived > the partition holocaust but, later, many mss had to be given back to the > original proprietors for whom the VVRI had preserved those. > Will this help? > DB > > --- On *Sat, 9/10/10, Dominik Wujastyk * wrote: > > > From: Dominik Wujastyk > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Bhajan Lal MSS dealer > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Saturday, 9 October, 2010, 5:42 PM > > > Has anyone come across the bookseller and manuscript dealer Bhajan Lal, who > was active in Amritsar and Bharatpur in the 1920s-1940s? He sold many > manuscripts through Banarsi Das, Lecturer in Hindi at Lahore Oriental > College (and colleague of Woolner), both to Lahore and to the Wellcome > Library in London. Many MSS in these collections have his distinctive > dealers label stuck to their covers. > > I would be interested to hear whether anyone else has come across this > Bhajan Lal. > > Best, and thanks, > Dominik Wujastyk > > > From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Sun Oct 10 05:16:28 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 10 10:46:28 +0530 Subject: Bhajan Lal MSS dealer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090414.23782.3133011826659140912.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1060 Lines: 31 One of the most prominent collectors/preservers at that time was the then nascent VVRI Institute, Lahore, later shifted to Hosiarpur. They survived the partition holocaust but, later,?many mss had to be given back to the original proprietors for whom the VVRI had preserved those. Will this help? DB? --- On Sat, 9/10/10, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: From: Dominik Wujastyk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Bhajan Lal MSS dealer To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Saturday, 9 October, 2010, 5:42 PM Has anyone come across the bookseller and manuscript dealer Bhajan Lal, who was active in Amritsar and Bharatpur in the 1920s-1940s?? He sold many manuscripts through Banarsi Das, Lecturer in Hindi at Lahore Oriental College (and colleague of Woolner), both to Lahore and to the Wellcome Library in London.? Many MSS in these collections have his distinctive dealers label stuck to their covers. I would be interested to hear whether anyone else has come across this Bhajan Lal. Best, and thanks, Dominik Wujastyk From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Sun Oct 10 13:51:35 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 10 19:21:35 +0530 Subject: Bhajan Lal MSS dealer Message-ID: <161227090420.23782.17293634624937846139.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2439 Lines: 77 --- On Sun, 10/10/10, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Bhajan Lal MSS dealer To: "Dominik Wujastyk" Date: Sunday, 10 October, 2010, 1:50 PM Not so! One such prprietor who, as I heard,?had kept their mss with the VVRI were the Lal Chand Trust who later took them back?into their own premises at Delhi. VVRI was given?the right to use them. There was no question of anything going back to Lahore.?The entire Hindu population had crossed over to this side of Panjab. As for the said Bhajan Lal I do not know anything. DB --- On Sun, 10/10/10, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: From: Dominik Wujastyk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Bhajan Lal MSS dealer To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Sunday, 10 October, 2010, 6:26 AM Are you referring to the MSS that are today in the DAV College, Chandigarh? I am not aware of any VVRI MSS having gone back to Lahore after partition. An important collection of Sarada MSS was given (sold?) to the VVRI in the 1930s by Dr Paira Mall, who lived in Amritsar, and also bought MSS from Bhajan Lal, I believe. Dominik On 10 October 2010 07:16, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > One of the most prominent collectors/preservers at that time was the then > nascent VVRI Institute, Lahore, later shifted to Hosiarpur. They survived > the partition holocaust but, later, many mss had to be given back to the > original proprietors for whom the VVRI had preserved those. > Will this help? > DB > > --- On *Sat, 9/10/10, Dominik Wujastyk * wrote: > > > From: Dominik Wujastyk > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Bhajan Lal MSS dealer > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Saturday, 9 October, 2010, 5:42 PM > > > Has anyone come across the bookseller and manuscript dealer Bhajan Lal, who > was active in Amritsar and Bharatpur in the 1920s-1940s?? He sold many > manuscripts through Banarsi Das, Lecturer in Hindi at Lahore Oriental > College (and colleague of Woolner), both to Lahore and to the Wellcome > Library in London.? Many MSS in these collections have his distinctive > dealers label stuck to their covers. > > I would be interested to hear whether anyone else has come across this > Bhajan Lal. > > Best, and thanks, > Dominik Wujastyk > > > From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Oct 11 12:47:38 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 10 07:47:38 -0500 Subject: Theories of light, vision or optics In-Reply-To: <4CB30753.5070701@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <161227090429.23782.297631228469624664.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 272 Lines: 12 Some of the chapters in The Presence of Light (University of Chicago Press 2004) may be of interest. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK Mon Oct 11 12:01:40 2010 From: J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK (J L Brockington) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 10 13:01:40 +0100 Subject: DK Award for the outstanding doctoral thesis on Sanskrit (IASS) Message-ID: <161227090423.23782.3404339018680958405.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5168 Lines: 110 Dear fellow Indologists, This message is to inform you all about the timetable and conditions for the next DK award for the outstanding doctoral thesis on Sanskrit offered through the International Association of Sanskrit Studies. In the light of the date for the next World Sanskrit Conference (New Delhi, 5th-10th January 2012) having been set so much earlier in the calendar year, some adjustment to the published timetable was necessary. The IASS Board have decided that the deadline for submissions of 31st January 2012 should be retained and Ramesh K. Mittal for DK Agencies has kindly agreed to this. This means, however, that the announcement of the winner cannot be made at the WSC and will be made subsequently. I will add at the end of this message the text of the flier, which gives all the necessary terms and conditions, but let me briefly point out that it is open to doctoral students from outside South Asia only and that the thesis must have been submitted and approved during the three preceding calendars years (i.e. 2009-2011). Do encourage any eligible student that you supervise, or simply know of, to enter; the more entrants the more worthwhile the award will be -- for the winner, for the IASS and for the discipline as a whole. Feel free to forward this text to anyone interested, or I still have copies of the glossy flier produced by DK that I can send, if anyone prefers a paper copy. Yours sincerely John Brockington Professor J. L. Brockington Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies Asian Studies 7-8 Buccleuch Place Edinburgh EH8 9LW DK award for the outstanding doctoral thesis on Sanskrit This award will be given every three years to a scholar of Sanskrit, who is based outside South Asia (India, Nepal, Bhutan, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and the Maldives), since its purpose is to encourage scholarly study of Sanskrit beyond the subcontinent, and it will consist of DK books to the value of US$ 1000. It will be awarded on the basis of the first doctoral dissertation of a postgraduate student on a Sanskrit topic, provided that the dissertation has been accepted and the degree awarded by a university or institution of comparable status outside South Asia during the three calendar years preceding the year in which each World Sanskrit Conference (WSC) is held. The International Association of Sanskrit Studies (IASS) will form an adjudication panel of three to four members to evaluate the dissertations received and to announce its decision at the next WSC. CONDITIONS 1. Scholars interested in this award should first give notice of intention to compete and will then be required to submit one copy of their thesis, together with a photocopy of the degree document and a letter of support from their main supervisor, to the screening panel before the deadline of 31st January of the year in which the WSC will take place; in addition to the paper copy, candidates for the award should also submit the thesis in electronic form, if possible, and should send all documentation to the Secretary General of the IASS. Candidates shall also send their CVs to D.K. Agencies (P) Ltd., New Delhi for their information. 2. A Sanskrit topic is to be understood as one concerned primarily with the Sanskrit language, Sanskrit literature or the subject matter of a text or texts composed in Sanskrit. 3. The IASS will decide and announce the membership of the adjudication panel at each WSC. The adjudication panel will examine all theses so received and decide the name of the award winner before the conference. The decision of the panel shall be treated as final. The name of the award winner will be announced during the conference and a certificate issued to the winner. In the event of the panel deciding that two dissertations tie for first place, there may be a maximum of two joint award winners. The panel (either directly or through the Secretary General of the IASS) will inform D.K. Agencies (P) Ltd., New Delhi about the name and address of the award winner(s). 4. The award will be in the form of books worth US$ 1000.00 (inclusive of postage) to be selected by the awardee either from the DK website or their catalogues at the prices stated therein. The amount of the award cannot be converted or reimbursed in cash or any other form except books and the postage thereon. In the event of a tie, this amount will be divided equally among the two award winners. 5. D.K. Agencies (P) Ltd. do not take responsibility for any expenditures other than the books worth $ 1000.00 (inclusive of postage) to be made available to the award winner(s). D.K. Agencies are simply the sponsors of this award in the form of books. D.K. Agencies (P) Ltd. reserve the right to withdraw this award with effect from a subsequent conference by announcing its withdrawal during any WSC. ----------- -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. From kellera at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Mon Oct 11 12:47:15 2010 From: kellera at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Agathe Keller) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 10 14:47:15 +0200 Subject: Theories of light, vision or optics Message-ID: <161227090426.23782.13501610480115341769.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 867 Lines: 42 Dear all, A colleague historian of physics asks me for good secondary literature on theories of light, vision or optics, in ancient and medieval India. I've copied for him Subbarayapa's chapter on the history of physics in a Concise History of Science, INSA, 1971, for starters, but was wondering if were available more recent and detailed studies on such topics in more specific nyayavaizesika, buddhist or ayurvedic texts for example. yours, Agathe -- Agathe Keller Universit? PARIS 7 - CNRS Laboratoire SPHERE UMR 7219 00 33 1 57 27 68 87 Bureau: 6 ?me ?tate 688/690 A Batiment Condorcet 10 rue A.Domont et L.Duquet 75013 PARIS Adresse postale: Case 7093 5 rue Thomas Mann 75205 PARIS CEDEX 13 Adresse de livraison : Universit? Paris 7 Laboratoire SPHERE UMR 7219 B?timent Condorcet 3? ?tage bureau 387A 10 rue A.Domont et L.Duquet 75013 PARIS From jwn3y at CMS.MAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU Mon Oct 11 19:04:59 2010 From: jwn3y at CMS.MAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU (John William Nemec) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 10 15:04:59 -0400 Subject: Theories of light, vision or optics In-Reply-To: <155A72C9DC894E0EBF57C028B34C25C3@uni9b34de09f1e> Message-ID: <161227090435.23782.6337400327430279477.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 559 Lines: 20 We have a doctoral student at the University of Virginia who explored this theme in Tibetan Buddhism. His name is Chris Hatchell, and he may be reached at ch5bw at virginia.edu He worked with David Germano on the Ph.D., but I have not seen the thesis, yet. Cheers, John __________________________________ John Nemec, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Indian Religions and South Asian Studies Dept. of Religious Studies University of Virginia 323 Gibson Hall / 1540 Jefferson Park Avenue Charlottesville, VA 22903 (USA) nemec at virginia.edu +1-434-924-6716 From franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Mon Oct 11 13:08:00 2010 From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE (Eli Franco) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 10 15:08:00 +0200 Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] Theories of light, vision or optics In-Reply-To: <4CB30753.5070701@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <161227090432.23782.6604918187591055733.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1445 Lines: 56 Dear Agathe, There is an outstanding paper (even if I say so myself) by Karin Preisendanz: "On ?tmendriyamanorthasannikar?a and the Ny?ya-Vai?e?ika Theory of Vision". Berliner Indologische Studien 4/5 (1989), 141-213. It contains much more than the title suggests, e.g., comparisons between Indian and Greek optics. Best wishes, EF -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Im Auftrag von Agathe Keller Gesendet: Montag, 11. Oktober 2010 14:47 An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Betreff: [INDOLOGY] Theories of light, vision or optics Dear all, A colleague historian of physics asks me for good secondary literature on theories of light, vision or optics, in ancient and medieval India. I've copied for him Subbarayapa's chapter on the history of physics in a Concise History of Science, INSA, 1971, for starters, but was wondering if were available more recent and detailed studies on such topics in more specific nyayavaizesika, buddhist or ayurvedic texts for example. yours, Agathe -- Agathe Keller Universit? PARIS 7 - CNRS Laboratoire SPHERE UMR 7219 00 33 1 57 27 68 87 Bureau: 6 ?me ?tate 688/690 A Batiment Condorcet 10 rue A.Domont et L.Duquet 75013 PARIS Adresse postale: Case 7093 5 rue Thomas Mann 75205 PARIS CEDEX 13 Adresse de livraison : Universit? Paris 7 Laboratoire SPHERE UMR 7219 B?timent Condorcet 3? ?tage bureau 387A 10 rue A.Domont et L.Duquet 75013 PARIS From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Mon Oct 11 21:23:05 2010 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (gthomgt at COMCAST.NET) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 10 21:23:05 +0000 Subject: Theories of light, vision or optics In-Reply-To: <1046938637.94920.1286831086613.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <161227090439.23782.13227732246229025913.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1643 Lines: 71 As for early?Vedic, Rainer Stuhrmann's long article?may be of interest: "Capturing the Light in the Rgveda: Soma as seen botanically, pharmologically, and in the eyes of the Kavis" ?[EJVS 13.2, 2006]. Also now see Joanna Jurewicz's new book: *Fire and Cognition in the Rgveda* [Dom Wydawniczy ELIPSA. 2010], which usefully resorts to current cognitive linguistics to 'illuminate' the semantics of light, fire, and cognition in the RV.? These are two important new resources on the topic of light in the RV. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Agathe Keller" To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 8:47:15 AM Subject: [INDOLOGY] Theories of light, vision or optics ??Dear all, A colleague historian of physics asks me for good secondary literature on theories of light, vision or optics, in ancient and medieval India. I've copied for him Subbarayapa's chapter on the history of physics in a Concise History of Science, INSA, 1971, for starters, but was wondering if were available more recent and detailed studies on such topics in more specific nyayavaizesika, buddhist or ayurvedic texts for example. yours, Agathe -- Agathe Keller Universit? PARIS 7 - CNRS Laboratoire SPHERE UMR 7219 00 33 1 57 27 68 87 Bureau: 6 ?me ?tate 688/690 A Batiment Condorcet 10 rue A.Domont et L.Duquet 75013 PARIS Adresse postale: Case 7093 5 rue Thomas Mann 75205 PARIS CEDEX 13 Adresse de livraison : Universit? Paris 7 Laboratoire SPHERE UMR 7219 B?timent Condorcet 3? ?tage bureau 387A 10 rue A.Domont et L.Duquet 75013 PARIS From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Mon Oct 11 22:24:28 2010 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (gthomgt at COMCAST.NET) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 10 22:24:28 +0000 Subject: Theories of light, vision or optics In-Reply-To: <1504744737.98781.1286835767836.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <161227090441.23782.1374458927618630328.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1986 Lines: 84 I should have pointed out that Stuhrmann's paper is in German, and?I should have signed my post.? Sorry for my?hastiness. George Thompson ----- Original Message ----- From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 5:23:05 PM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Theories of light, vision or optics As for early?Vedic, Rainer Stuhrmann's long article?may be of interest: "Capturing the Light in the Rgveda: Soma as seen botanically, pharmologically, and in the eyes of the Kavis" ?[EJVS 13.2, 2006]. Also now see Joanna Jurewicz's new book: *Fire and Cognition in the Rgveda* [Dom Wydawniczy ELIPSA. 2010], which usefully resorts to current cognitive linguistics to 'illuminate' the semantics of light, fire, and cognition in the RV.? These are two important new resources on the topic of light in the RV. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Agathe Keller" To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 8:47:15 AM Subject: [INDOLOGY] Theories of light, vision or optics ??Dear all, A colleague historian of physics asks me for good secondary literature on theories of light, vision or optics, in ancient and medieval India. I've copied for him Subbarayapa's chapter on the history of physics in a Concise History of Science, INSA, 1971, for starters, but was wondering if were available more recent and detailed studies on such topics in more specific nyayavaizesika, buddhist or ayurvedic texts for example. yours, Agathe -- Agathe Keller Universit? PARIS 7 - CNRS Laboratoire SPHERE UMR 7219 00 33 1 57 27 68 87 Bureau: 6 ?me ?tate 688/690 A Batiment Condorcet 10 rue A.Domont et L.Duquet 75013 PARIS Adresse postale: Case 7093 5 rue Thomas Mann 75205 PARIS CEDEX 13 Adresse de livraison : Universit? Paris 7 Laboratoire SPHERE UMR 7219 B?timent Condorcet 3? ?tage bureau 387A 10 rue A.Domont et L.Duquet 75013 PARIS From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Oct 12 06:25:02 2010 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 10 06:25:02 +0000 Subject: Theories of light, vision or optics In-Reply-To: <4CB30753.5070701@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <161227090445.23782.4298632322653351914.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1299 Lines: 51 There is a little work by Wilhelm Rau, Die Brennlinse im Alten Indien [The burning lens in ancient India] (1982) that might be useful. Arlo Griffiths, EFEO/Jakarta > Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:47:15 +0200 > From: kellera at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Theories of light, vision or optics > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Dear all, > > A colleague historian of physics asks me for good secondary literature > on theories of light, vision or optics, in ancient and medieval India. > I've copied for him Subbarayapa's chapter on the history of physics in a > Concise History of Science, INSA, 1971, for starters, but was wondering > if were available more recent and detailed studies on such topics in > more specific nyayavaizesika, buddhist or ayurvedic texts for example. > > yours, > > Agathe > > -- > Agathe Keller > > Universit? PARIS 7 - CNRS > Laboratoire SPHERE UMR 7219 > > 00 33 1 57 27 68 87 > > Bureau: > 6 ?me ?tate 688/690 A > Batiment Condorcet > 10 rue A.Domont et L.Duquet > 75013 PARIS > > Adresse postale: > Case 7093 > 5 rue Thomas Mann > 75205 PARIS CEDEX 13 > > Adresse de livraison : > Universit? Paris 7 > Laboratoire SPHERE > UMR 7219 > B?timent Condorcet 3? ?tage bureau 387A > 10 rue A.Domont et L.Duquet > 75013 PARIS From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Oct 12 06:33:00 2010 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 10 06:33:00 +0000 Subject: o=?utf-8?Q?=E1=B9=83_ye_te_s_v=C4=81h=C4=81?= Message-ID: <161227090448.23782.8962550713620899688.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 750 Lines: 7 Dear colleagues, There is a substantial number of (clay, metal) artefacts from ancient Java and Bali that bear, alone or with other mantric material, the words o? ye te sv?h?. These have been interpreted, convincingly it seems to me, as abbreviation for the ye dharm? formula (the Prat?tyasamutp?dag?th?). Having read Boucher's, Skilling's and some other relevant publications of the last two decades, I am starting to get the impression that this abbreviation was only used in Indonesia, not elsewhere in the Buddhist world. But perhaps some of you can correct me if this impression is wrong? References to non-Indonesian cases of this or other abbreviated forms of the formula will be much appreciated. Arlo Griffiths, EFEO/Jakarta From phmaas at ARCOR.DE Tue Oct 12 06:51:08 2010 From: phmaas at ARCOR.DE (Philipp Maas) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 10 08:51:08 +0200 Subject: Aw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Theories of light, vision or optics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090451.23782.1813036688306895350.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 278 Lines: 11 The following monograph could also be of interest: Ulrike Roesler, Licht und Leuchten im Rgveda. Untersuchungen zum Wortfeld des Leuchtens und zur Bedeutung des Lichts. Swisttal-Odendorf: Indica-et-Tibetica-Verl., 1997 (Indica et Tibetica 32). Philipp Maas ISTB, Vienna From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Oct 12 09:20:56 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 10 11:20:56 +0200 Subject: Bharat Itihas Sanshodhak Mandal to digitise manuscripts Message-ID: <161227090454.23782.4631415868283195483.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1123 Lines: 24 http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Bharat-Itihas-Sanshodhak-Mandal-to-digitise-manuscripts/696174/ Posted: Tue Oct 12 2010, 05:52 hrs The Bharat Itihas Sanshodhak Mandal (BISM) has got approval from the National Manuscript Mission to digitise nearly eight lakh manuscripts in the coming year. Having completed its 100 years, the BISM is now awaiting funds to be released to undertake the mammoth task. President Pratibha Patil will attend the concluding ceremony at Balgandharva Rangmandir on Tuesday to mark the centenary year of the institute. At the function, a souvenir on 100 years of the institute will be release and historian Babasaheb Purandare will be felicitated. One-line indexing of manuscripts and digitising Sanskrit manuscipts are being done by the institute, said Dr Anuradha Kulkarni, secretary of BISM. The institute provides resources and training for historical researchers and was founded in 1910 by Indian historian V K Rajwade and Sardar KC Mehendale. The institute at present houses nearly 40,000 Sanskrit manuscripts and 1,100 miniature paintings, which will be undertaken for restoration. From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Oct 12 17:13:57 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 10 13:13:57 -0400 Subject: Theories of light, vision or optics In-Reply-To: <4CB30753.5070701@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <161227090460.23782.16417550333918242082.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1703 Lines: 48 I don't have any positive suggestions, but do have a negative one. Warn him against Bharadvaja Rishi, Amsu Bodhini Shastra, Bangalore: V.B. Soobbiah, 1931. (In WorldCat with OCLC numbers 557431896 and 317341229.) It purports to be an ancient work on optics lost and recovered in the twentieth century by yogic insight, and is one of several similar works published around the same time, the most notable being the Brhadvimanasastra on flying machines attributed to the same sage, whence von Daniken, et hinc illae lacrimae. I have been gradually putting together a dossier on these publications. Allen -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Agathe Keller Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 8:47 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Theories of light, vision or optics Dear all, A colleague historian of physics asks me for good secondary literature on theories of light, vision or optics, in ancient and medieval India. I've copied for him Subbarayapa's chapter on the history of physics in a Concise History of Science, INSA, 1971, for starters, but was wondering if were available more recent and detailed studies on such topics in more specific nyayavaizesika, buddhist or ayurvedic texts for example. yours, Agathe -- Agathe Keller Universit? PARIS 7 - CNRS Laboratoire SPHERE UMR 7219 00 33 1 57 27 68 87 Bureau: 6 ?me ?tate 688/690 A Batiment Condorcet 10 rue A.Domont et L.Duquet 75013 PARIS Adresse postale: Case 7093 5 rue Thomas Mann 75205 PARIS CEDEX 13 Adresse de livraison : Universit? Paris 7 Laboratoire SPHERE UMR 7219 B?timent Condorcet 3? ?tage bureau 387A 10 rue A.Domont et L.Duquet 75013 PARIS From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Oct 12 17:15:10 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 10 13:15:10 -0400 Subject: Bhajan Lal MSS dealer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090463.23782.15431251155788674945.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1735 Lines: 25 Dominik, I have not heard of him, and certainly LOC has no MSS with his label, but if you or anyone has a sample of his handwriting I would appreciate a scan. It might help to identify the dealer from whom Horace Poleman bought a large collection of Indo-Aryan mss in 1941, by comparison with a card index and the titles on brown paper wrappers. Probsthain's rediscovered a cache of Indo-Aryan mss five years ago or so, along with others in other Asian languages. The Sanskrit etc. ones had a printed label on the covers which was then filled in with particulars of each ms. LOC just missed getting them with end-of-the-fiscal-year money, alas. Anyway, I can't remember whether Probsthain's name, that of an Indian dealer, or nobody's was on the labels. Did you examine these? LOC did get succeed in getting some Chinese and Persian mss from the same cache. I will ask my colleagues if these have printed labels in English on them and if so examine them and report back. Allen -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 1:43 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Bhajan Lal MSS dealer Has anyone come across the bookseller and manuscript dealer Bhajan Lal, who was active in Amritsar and Bharatpur in the 1920s-1940s? He sold many manuscripts through Banarsi Das, Lecturer in Hindi at Lahore Oriental College (and colleague of Woolner), both to Lahore and to the Wellcome Library in London. Many MSS in these collections have his distinctive dealers label stuck to their covers. I would be interested to hear whether anyone else has come across this Bhajan Lal. Best, and thanks, Dominik Wujastyk From reimann at BERKELEY.EDU Tue Oct 12 21:17:43 2010 From: reimann at BERKELEY.EDU (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 10 14:17:43 -0700 Subject: Theories of light, vision or optics In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F15135F2CC4@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227090466.23782.16697109937521665352.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1908 Lines: 57 Allen, Please let us know when you have completed the dossier. Luis _____ on 10/12/2010 10:13 AM Thrasher, Allen wrote: > I don't have any positive suggestions, but do have a negative one. Warn him against Bharadvaja Rishi, Amsu Bodhini Shastra, Bangalore: V.B. Soobbiah, 1931. (In WorldCat with OCLC numbers 557431896 and 317341229.) It purports to be an ancient work on optics lost and recovered in the twentieth century by yogic insight, and is one of several similar works published around the same time, the most notable being the Brhadvimanasastra on flying machines attributed to the same sage, whence von Daniken, et hinc illae lacrimae. I have been gradually putting together a dossier on these publications. > > Allen > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Agathe Keller > Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 8:47 AM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Theories of light, vision or optics > > Dear all, > > A colleague historian of physics asks me for good secondary literature on theories of light, vision or optics, in ancient and medieval India. > I've copied for him Subbarayapa's chapter on the history of physics in a Concise History of Science, INSA, 1971, for starters, but was wondering if were available more recent and detailed studies on such topics in more specific nyayavaizesika, buddhist or ayurvedic texts for example. > > yours, > > Agathe > > -- > Agathe Keller > > Universit? PARIS 7 - CNRS > Laboratoire SPHERE UMR 7219 > > 00 33 1 57 27 68 87 > > Bureau: > 6 ?me ?tate 688/690 A > Batiment Condorcet > 10 rue A.Domont et L.Duquet > 75013 PARIS > > Adresse postale: > Case 7093 > 5 rue Thomas Mann > 75205 PARIS CEDEX 13 > > Adresse de livraison : > Universit? Paris 7 > Laboratoire SPHERE > UMR 7219 > B?timent Condorcet 3? ?tage bureau 387A > 10 rue A.Domont et L.Duquet > 75013 PARIS > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Oct 12 13:48:47 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 10 15:48:47 +0200 Subject: Bharat Itihas Sanshodhak Mandal to digitise manuscripts In-Reply-To: <79FCCAF7C75EB045B63C1FDFDB0E38B2133EFCA1C2@post> Message-ID: <161227090457.23782.12952544026616669456.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3284 Lines: 92 Yes, the BISM is a major repository of MSS in Pune, along with the BORI, Deccan College, Anandashram Sanstha and Vaidik Samsodhan Mandal collections. The there are smaller, departmental-level collections at the university and colleges (IGNCA's list ). And in many private households! DW On 12 October 2010 13:13, Hartmut Buescher wrote: > Dear Dominik, > > thanks for the information on project of the Bharat Itihas Sanshodhak > Mandal (BISM), > an institution, which, embarrassingly enough, I had previously only all too > vaguely > been aware of. That led me to find out, where it actually is located, hence > recognized > that the short article you sent continued below the ads as follows: > > ?With Pune Municipal Corporation also allocating Rs 15 lakh in their budget > for a new building, > Kulkarni said they are hopeful of shifting to the new building which will > give them more space to > house the manuscripts. > The institute maintains over 1,500,000 historical papers and 30,000 scripts > mainly in Marathi, Modi, > Persian, Portuguese and English, preserves over 4,000 coins, 1,000 > paintings and few sculptures and > inscriptions in their museum. The library has 27,000 books mainly in > Marathi and English.? > > Its strange that they do not seem to maintain a website, as Amit > Paranjape?s Blog > (http://tinyurl.com/33suh2m) seems to confirm. Anyway, if time allows, > I'll try to > see that place next time when passing through Pune. > By the way, when the article speaks about digitising ?nearly eight lakh > manuscripts?, what they mean, I venture to guess, is not ?manuscripts?, but > perhaps ?manuscript folios? (which still would be quite an ambitious > project). > > Best regards, > > Hartmut > (Copenhagen) > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > Fra: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] På vegne af Dominik Wujastyk > [wujastyk at GMAIL.COM] > Sendt: 12. oktober 2010 11:20 > Til: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Emne: [INDOLOGY] Bharat Itihas Sanshodhak Mandal to digitise manuscripts > > > http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Bharat-Itihas-Sanshodhak-Mandal-to-digitise-manuscripts/696174/ > > Posted: Tue Oct 12 2010, 05:52 hrs > > The Bharat Itihas Sanshodhak Mandal (BISM) has got approval from the > National Manuscript Mission to digitise nearly eight lakh manuscripts in > the > coming year. Having completed its 100 years, the BISM is now awaiting funds > to be released to undertake the mammoth task. President Pratibha Patil will > attend the concluding ceremony at Balgandharva Rangmandir on Tuesday to > mark > the centenary year of the institute. At the function, a souvenir on 100 > years of the institute will be release and historian Babasaheb Purandare > will be felicitated. > > One-line indexing of manuscripts and digitising Sanskrit manuscipts are > being done by the institute, said Dr Anuradha Kulkarni, secretary of BISM. > The institute provides resources and training for historical researchers > and > was founded in 1910 by Indian historian V K Rajwade and Sardar KC > Mehendale. > > > The institute at present houses nearly 40,000 Sanskrit manuscripts and > 1,100 > miniature paintings, which will be undertaken for restoration. > From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Oct 12 21:38:06 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 10 17:38:06 -0400 Subject: Theories of light, vision or optics In-Reply-To: <4CB4D077.1060100@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227090468.23782.1420969421544300197.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2297 Lines: 67 I was getting together some materials for Indo-Eurasian. It won't cover everything but when I post it there I'll also post it here. Allen -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Luis Gonzalez-Reimann Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 5:18 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Theories of light, vision or optics Allen, Please let us know when you have completed the dossier. Luis _____ on 10/12/2010 10:13 AM Thrasher, Allen wrote: > I don't have any positive suggestions, but do have a negative one. Warn him against Bharadvaja Rishi, Amsu Bodhini Shastra, Bangalore: V.B. Soobbiah, 1931. (In WorldCat with OCLC numbers 557431896 and 317341229.) It purports to be an ancient work on optics lost and recovered in the twentieth century by yogic insight, and is one of several similar works published around the same time, the most notable being the Brhadvimanasastra on flying machines attributed to the same sage, whence von Daniken, et hinc illae lacrimae. I have been gradually putting together a dossier on these publications. > > Allen > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Agathe > Keller > Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 8:47 AM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Theories of light, vision or optics > > Dear all, > > A colleague historian of physics asks me for good secondary literature on theories of light, vision or optics, in ancient and medieval India. > I've copied for him Subbarayapa's chapter on the history of physics in a Concise History of Science, INSA, 1971, for starters, but was wondering if were available more recent and detailed studies on such topics in more specific nyayavaizesika, buddhist or ayurvedic texts for example. > > yours, > > Agathe > > -- > Agathe Keller > > Universit? PARIS 7 - CNRS > Laboratoire SPHERE UMR 7219 > > 00 33 1 57 27 68 87 > > Bureau: > 6 ?me ?tate 688/690 A > Batiment Condorcet > 10 rue A.Domont et L.Duquet > 75013 PARIS > > Adresse postale: > Case 7093 > 5 rue Thomas Mann > 75205 PARIS CEDEX 13 > > Adresse de livraison : > Universit? Paris 7 > Laboratoire SPHERE > UMR 7219 > B?timent Condorcet 3? ?tage bureau 387A 10 rue A.Domont et L.Duquet > 75013 PARIS > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Oct 12 22:14:03 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 10 00:14:03 +0200 Subject: Email attachments (was Re: [INDOLOGY] Theories of light, vision or optics) Message-ID: <161227090470.23782.9645569690238092964.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3138 Lines: 99 This seems an opportune moment to raise a point that was discussed in the INDOLOGY committee a few months ago, but that we haven't yet acted upon. The committee wishes to allow attachments to postings in this forum, at least for a trial period. Times have changed, disks are bigger, and INDOLOGY's members are now selected, which should prevent giant postings from advertisers. Job postings are welcome, and no longer have to be converted to unformatted text. Images can be posted. And we can all enjoy the benefit of seeing Allen's intriguing bibliography! As of now, therefore, attachments are permitted. Dominik On 12 October 2010 23:38, Thrasher, Allen wrote: > I was getting together some materials for Indo-Eurasian. It won't cover > everything but when I post it there I'll also post it here. > > Allen > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Luis > Gonzalez-Reimann > Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 5:18 PM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Theories of light, vision or optics > > Allen, > > Please let us know when you have completed the dossier. > > Luis > _____ > > on 10/12/2010 10:13 AM Thrasher, Allen wrote: > > I don't have any positive suggestions, but do have a negative one. Warn > him against Bharadvaja Rishi, Amsu Bodhini Shastra, Bangalore: V.B. > Soobbiah, 1931. (In WorldCat with OCLC numbers 557431896 and 317341229.) It > purports to be an ancient work on optics lost and recovered in the twentieth > century by yogic insight, and is one of several similar works published > around the same time, the most notable being the Brhadvimanasastra on flying > machines attributed to the same sage, whence von Daniken, et hinc illae > lacrimae. I have been gradually putting together a dossier on these > publications. > > > > Allen > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Agathe > > Keller > > Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 8:47 AM > > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Theories of light, vision or optics > > > > Dear all, > > > > A colleague historian of physics asks me for good secondary literature on > theories of light, vision or optics, in ancient and medieval India. > > I've copied for him Subbarayapa's chapter on the history of physics in a > Concise History of Science, INSA, 1971, for starters, but was wondering if > were available more recent and detailed studies on such topics in more > specific nyayavaizesika, buddhist or ayurvedic texts for example. > > > > yours, > > > > Agathe > > > > -- > > Agathe Keller > > > > Universit? PARIS 7 - CNRS > > Laboratoire SPHERE UMR 7219 > > > > 00 33 1 57 27 68 87 > > > > Bureau: > > 6 ?me ?tate 688/690 A > > Batiment Condorcet > > 10 rue A.Domont et L.Duquet > > 75013 PARIS > > > > Adresse postale: > > Case 7093 > > 5 rue Thomas Mann > > 75205 PARIS CEDEX 13 > > > > Adresse de livraison : > > Universit? Paris 7 > > Laboratoire SPHERE > > UMR 7219 > > B?timent Condorcet 3? ?tage bureau 387A 10 rue A.Domont et L.Duquet > > 75013 PARIS > > > From kellera at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Wed Oct 13 12:38:24 2010 From: kellera at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Agathe Keller) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 10 14:38:24 +0200 Subject: Theories of light, vision or optics Message-ID: <161227090473.23782.4645140426175553766.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 474 Lines: 35 Dear all, thanks indeed for all references and warnings! Agathe -- Agathe Keller Universit? PARIS 7 - CNRS Laboratoire SPHERE UMR 7219 00 33 1 57 27 68 87 Bureau: 6 ?me ?tate 688/690 A Batiment Condorcet 10 rue A.Domont et L.Duquet 75013 PARIS Adresse postale: Case 7093 5 rue Thomas Mann 75205 PARIS CEDEX 13 Adresse de livraison : Universit? Paris 7 Laboratoire SPHERE UMR 7219 B?timent Condorcet 3? ?tage bureau 387A 10 rue A.Domont et L.Duquet 75013 PARIS From jneelis at WLU.CA Wed Oct 13 15:37:00 2010 From: jneelis at WLU.CA (Jason Neelis) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 10 16:37:00 +0100 Subject: Research position at Ruhr-Universit=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E4t?= Bochum Message-ID: <161227090476.23782.14272605333897640151.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3625 Lines: 91 Dear Indology listmembers, Could you please make this advertisement (available online at: http://www.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/php-bin/stellen/stellen.htm) known to potentially interested applicants. Thank you, Jason Neelis Wilfrid Laurier University The Center for Religious Studies (CERES) at Ruhr- Universitaet Bochum invites applications for a researcher position in Indology (full-time, TV-L E13, open from Dec 1, 2010, presently limited to two years) in the interdisciplinary project "Dynamics of text corpora and image programs: Representations of Buddhist narrative along the Silk Road" (funded by the Mercator Research Initiative Ruhr (MERCUR)). Based on textual and visual representations of Buddhist narratives on the various lives of the Buddha (especially avadānas and jātakas) from Gandhara, Bamiyan, Khotan, Kucha, Turfan and Dunhuang dating from the 3rd to 10th century, the project team will conduct an exemplary study on the role of the interaction of text corpora and image programs within cross-regional religious contact. The main responsiblity of the successful applicant will be the processing of relevant materials in Sanskrit, Pali and Gandhari, and the joint production of a monograph together with her/his sinological co-worker. The ability to perform academic work should be documented by a PhD / Dr. Phil degree. An Indological or equivalent education, excellent knowledge of Buddhist Sanskrit, Pali, preferably also of Gandhari, experience in dealing with manuscripts (especially from Central Asia) and interest in interdisciplinary cooperation in an international research environment are presupposed, additional knowledge of visual narratives is desirable. Applications should be sent no later than October 21, 2010 by email to joerg.plassen at rub.de. Im Rahmen der Duchf?hrung des interdisziplin?ren Projektes "Dynamiken von Textkorpora und Bildprogrammen: Repr?sentationen buddhistischer Narrative entlang der Seidenstra?e" (gef?rdert durch die Stiftung Mercator mit der Initiative Mercator Research Center Ruhr (MERCUR)) ist am Centrum f?r Religionswissenschaftliche Forschung (CERES) zum 1.12.2010 die Position einer indologischen Projektmitarbeiterin / eines indologischen Projektmitarbeiters (Vollzeit, Verg?tung nach TV-L E 13, ggw. befristet auf zwei Jahre) zu besetzen. Anhand von aus dem 3.-10. Jahrhundert datierenden textlichen und visuellen Darstellungen buddhistischer Narrative zu den verschiedenen Leben der Buddhas (vor allem avadānas und jātakas) aus Gandhāra, Bamiyan, Khotan, Kucha, Turfan und Dunhuang soll exemplarisch die Bedeutung des Zusammenwirkens von Textkorpora und Bildprogrammen im ?berregionalen Religionskontakt untersucht werden. Die Aufgaben der/des f?r den indologischen Projektteil verantwortlichen Mitarbeiterin/s beinhalten vor allem die Bearbeitung des in Buddhistischem Sanskrit, Pali und Gandhari vorliegenden Materials und die gemeinsame Erstellung einer Monographie mit der/m f?r den sinologischen Teil Verantwortlichen. Die Bef?higung zur wissenschaftlichen Arbeit sollte durch eine Promotion dokumentiert sein. Eine indologische oder vergleichbare Ausbildung, ausgezeichnete Kenntnisse in Buddhistischem Sanskrit, Pali und m?glichst auch Gandhari, Erfahrung im Umgang mit originalsprachlichen Manuskripten (insbes. aus Zentralasien) sowie Aufgeschlossenheit f?r interdisziplin?re Zusammenarbeit in einer internationalen Forschungsumgebung werden vorausgesetzt, zus?tzliche Kenntnisse zu visuellen Narrativen sind w?nschenswert. Bewerbungen sollten bis zum 21. Oktober 2010 per email an joerg.plassen at rub.de erfolgen. From jneelis at WLU.CA Wed Oct 13 21:10:35 2010 From: jneelis at WLU.CA (Jason Neelis) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 10 17:10:35 -0400 Subject: Research position at Ruh r-Universit=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E4t?= Bochum Message-ID: <161227090478.23782.13465359796481363412.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 287 Lines: 12 Dear Indology listmembers, The correct url for the Indology research position in Bochum is: http://www.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/php-bin/stellen/stellen.html. The advertisement was filed 11.10.2010 under "CERES." With apologies for any confusion, Jason Neelis Wilfrid Laurier University From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Thu Oct 14 05:03:35 2010 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 10 10:33:35 +0530 Subject: OtuvArs and Zaiva Agamas In-Reply-To: <16F84E1E-9369-4A7A-B78B-2718E2D83B13@aol.com> Message-ID: <161227090481.23782.16929737533721015262.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3573 Lines: 50 Dear Palaniappan, I don't think that scriptures of the ?aivasiddh?nta say anything about this, just as they don't typically comment on which particular caste-groups can penetrate into which bit of the temple. Statements of such a kind tend to be given only in relatively late works that claim to be based on or quoting from ?gamas. So, for instance, on p. 313 of the Kriy?s?ra (the same passage is also to be found in another sixteenth-century work which often either copies the Kriy?s?ra or has been copied from it : Appayad?k?ita?s ?iv?rcanacandrik?, on p.110) we find the positions in the temple in which different groups should place themselves : tatr?c?ryasyaiva garbhag?ha? pravi?ya sev? | itare??? br?hma??n?m ardhama??apa? pravi?ya | k?atriy???m ardhama??apadv?ramukhe ?vasth?ya | vai?y?n?? v???gre | ??dr???? v??ap???he | Immediately before that we find the following instruction: ?deva? namask?tya mastake h?daye v??jali? baddhv? yath?dhik?ra? vaidik?gamikalaukikapaur??ikadr?vi??distotrai? stuv?ta | ??having worshipped the Lord while clasping the hands to the head or the heart, one should praise him with Vedic, ?gamic, worldly, Pur??ic, Dravidian or other hymns in accordance with one?s entitlement.? One of the earliest mentions in scripture of the singing of Dravidian-language hymns as part of regular worship, may be that in the P?rva-K?mika 6.438, where it follows immediately upon the singing of hymns in Bengali and other languages (gau?abh???dyair g?nam, 6.437). There is no mention of var?a or j?ti in this context. As for the date of the P?rva-K?mika, there is reason to believe it may belong to the twelfth century, before which it is apparently not quoted. The most specific statement I can find of the type you are looking for is in verse 35 of a work attributed to R?maka??ha called the J?tinir?ayap?rvak?layaprave?avidhi, published by Pierre-Sylvain Filliozat in Journal Asiatique 263 (1975) 103?117. The claim there is that av?ntara-sacch?dras may sing ?aiva hymns in Tamil in the mah?ma??apa up to the bull. ma??ape mahatp?rve nandiparyantam antata? dr?vidai? stotrapa?alai? sacch?dr?v?ntar??| iti The claim seems to be attributed to the Sv?yambhuva and is followed by a supporting quotation attributed to the Kira?a, but like all the quotations in that small work about caste, they have not been traced, and a natural conclusion seems to me that they are fabrications of the author. (The use of the word Nandi here to refer to the bull suggests, quite apart from other factors, that this verse is not scriptural.) The ascription of a work about South Indian castes and temple life to a tenth-century Kashmirian theologian is, by the way, also not remotely credible to me. There may of course be other passages that I am not aware of, but it is clear to me in any case that the subject is not one commonly dealt with in ?aiva scriptures. Yours, with best wishes, Dominic Goodall On 30-Sep-2010, at 9:52 AM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: > Dear Indologists, > > Tamil uvaccars are known as a non-brahmin caste in modern times. But medieval inscriptions show that uvaccar represented merely an occupational category and both brahmins and non-brahmins have received uvaccakkANi. I have a question in connection with a similar group involved in Zaiva temples. What do the zaiva Agamas say about the caste of those who sing the tEvAram hymns in the Zaiva temples? What are the dates of these Agamas? > > Thanks in advance > > Regards, > Palaniappan Dominic Goodall ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient, Pondich?ry From jemhouben at GMAIL.COM Fri Oct 15 06:08:50 2010 From: jemhouben at GMAIL.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 10 08:08:50 +0200 Subject: article with picture re: archeology on Babri masjid site Message-ID: <161227090485.23782.10414718425066006945.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7213 Lines: 136 Dear Dominik, let's try, here an article with image. Jan This seems an opportune moment to raise a point that was discussed in the INDOLOGY committee a few months ago, but that we haven't yet acted upon. The committee wishes to allow attachments to postings in this forum, at least for a trial period. Times have changed, disks are bigger, and INDOLOGY's members are now selected, which should prevent giant postings from advertisers. Job postings are welcome, and no longer have to be converted to unformatted text. Images can be posted. And we can all enjoy the benefit of seeing Allen's intriguing bibliography! As of now, therefore, attachments are permitted. Dominik [image: Print] [image: Maximize] ------------------------------ TRENCH WARFARE *Writing on the WALL * Two archaeologists have had a run-in with the law for their book on the Babri masjid site *Pronoti Datta | TNN * In 1968,archaeologist Shereen Ratnagar travelled to Ashvan in Turkey to participate in an excavation.Her professor pointed to a wall and a floor and instructed the nervous young woman to identify which was older.On hindsight,the moment seems prophetic.In 2003,when Ratnagar and fellow archaeologist D Mandal surveyed the Archaeological Survey of Indias (ASI) excavation of the Babri Masjid site,one of their most significant discoveries involved the vintage of a wall and a floor. The two archaeologists spent a day examining the site in order to verify the ASI report on behalf of the Sunni Waqf Board in 2003.Four years later,they published a highly critical appraisal of the ASIs work in a book titled Ayodhya: Archaeology After Excavation.In April 2010,three years after the publication of the book,the Allahabad high court considered the authors and their publisher Tulika Books in contempt of court.The court objected to the authors,who are also witnesses in the case,expressing their opinion on a matter that was still being tried.The judges also verbally ordered the publisher to recall all unsold copies of the book.I feel there has been an injustice, says Ratnagar,a specialist in the Harappan civilisation who taught archaeology at Jawaharlal Nehru University (JNU) for 22 years before retiring in 2000.But I respect judicial procedure and I have to be silent till the case comes to a resolution. Shes frustrated that as the case continues to hang in the balance,she cant express her views on Ayodhya as freely as her peers. It was recently reported that Sudhir Agarwal,one of the judges at the Allahabad high court,criticised some of witnesses for the Waqf Board.Ratnagar,it was said,admitted not having any experience on the field.However the archaeologist says that she has participated in excavations in India,England,Iraq and Bahrain. Before tearing into the ASI report,the book outlines the history of the dispute.Its a context that has always been politically charged,right from 1853 when records show that Hindu ascetics captured the premises of the mosque declaring that it stood on Rams birthplace.Colonial records from the mid- and late-nineteenth century,in what was perhaps a political move,support the Hindu claim that Baburs general Mir Baqi destroyed a temple to build the mosque.In 1949,the controversy flared up afresh when idols of Ram and Sita were secretly installed inside the mosque.The district magistrate insisted the idols remain and ordered the mosque shut.In 1986,Rajiv Gandhi controversially opened the locks and allowed a shilanyas on the premises of the mosque.Four years later,L K Advanis rath yatra for the construction of a temple led to the mosques demolition in 1992. Mandal and Ratnagar have criticised both the ASIs methods of working and the conclusions it has drawn.The authors have found fault with the way the ASI established the chronology of the successive periods of habitation on the site.Archaeological finds such as pieces of pottery were not classified correctly and the site itself was strewn with debris.They write that finds such as glazed tiles and animal bones were not correctly tabled.A number of verdict critics believe that the presence of bones suggests that the excavated structure was not a temple.The writers argue that the bones were part of landfills.If it was a temple,then the soil would have been sieved and the bones removed.But since there is no proof of this,the site cannot be a temple.Its also possible that the inhabitants were non-vegetarian.Yet,some people seem to be rather opposed to acknowledging this fact.This might be one of the reasons for the suppression of details in the (ASI) Report pertaining to the recovery of animal bones, Mandal and Ratnagar write. The fifty pillars bases have also been widely debated.Supporters of the temple theory believe that the bases suggest the presence of a temple.However,Vidula Jayaswal,a professor in Benares Hindu Universitys department of ancient Indian history,culture and archaeology,who reviewed Ayodhya agrees with the ASIs interpretation.Its an architectural feature of the Gupta period, she points out.Pillars were put above brick cushions. But,archaeologically one cannot prove that it was Ram Janmabhoomi.Mandal and Ratnagar assert that the pillar bases are clumps of bricks that are too feeble to support the weight of pillars and their view is widely supported by archaeologists and historians who reject the temple theory.In a review of the book,M S Mate,a former professor of archaeology at Deccan College,points out that the layout of the pillar bases are not at all conducive to temple rituals. One of the duos most important discoveries was that the floor of the purported temple was actually of the same age as the mosque,as it ran up to the face of the mosque wall.Theres also no evidence that the mosque was built on the foundations of a structure that had been destroyed.This leads the authors to vociferously conclude that the site bears evidence not of a destruction that took place in the 16th century,but of vandalism in the 20th century. ** -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: print.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1171 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: maximise.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 607 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Pc0060500.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 55532 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pc12c26036484c3c4c5c6c15cj1.a Type: application/octet-stream Size: 43 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jemhouben at GMAIL.COM Fri Oct 15 07:17:27 2010 From: jemhouben at GMAIL.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 10 09:17:27 +0200 Subject: New Publication: Abhinavagupta's Paramarthasara and comm. of Yogaraja Message-ID: <161227090490.23782.6848724337635892276.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 863 Lines: 36 Dear All, A new work on Abhinavagupta's Paramarthasara, or ?Essence of Ultimate Reality?, by Lyne Bansat-Boudon appeared recently (with critically revised Sanskrit text, and first annotated English translation of both Abhinavagupta?s PAS and Yogaraja?s commentary). Contents: 1. Introduction 2. Annotated translation of PAS with comm. of Yogaraja 3. Sanskrit text 4. Glossary. See: www.routledge.com/9780415346696 NB discount: "For online ordering, please enter discount code *ITPAS10* at the checkout to receive a 20% discount", and the link for ordering is: * *http://www.routledge.com/9780415346696 Jan Houben Prof. Dr. Jan E.M. Houben, Directeur d Etudes ? Sources et Histoire de la Tradition Sanskrite ? Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, SHP, A la Sorbonne,45-47, rue des Ecoles, 75005 Paris -- France. JEMHouben at gmail.com www.jyotistoma.nl From jemhouben at GMAIL.COM Fri Oct 15 07:38:02 2010 From: jemhouben at GMAIL.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 10 09:38:02 +0200 Subject: New Publication: Abhinavagupta's Paramarthasara and comm. of Yogaraja In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090495.23782.600274027828221849.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1061 Lines: 42 authors are Lyne Bansat-Boudon and Kamaleshwar Tripathi On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Jan E.M. Houben wrote: > Dear All, > > A new work on Abhinavagupta's Paramarthasara, or ?Essence of Ultimate > Reality?, by Lyne Bansat-Boudon appeared recently (with critically revised > Sanskrit text, and first annotated English translation of both > Abhinavagupta?s PAS and Yogaraja?s commentary). > > Contents: > > 1. Introduction > > 2. Annotated translation of PAS with comm. of Yogaraja > > 3. Sanskrit text > > 4. Glossary. > > See: www.routledge.com/9780415346696 > > NB discount: > > "For online ordering, please enter discount code *ITPAS10* at the > checkout to receive a 20% discount", > and the link for ordering is: * *http://www.routledge.com/9780415346696 > > Jan Houben > Prof. Dr. Jan E.M. Houben, > Directeur d Etudes ? Sources et Histoire de la Tradition Sanskrite ? > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, SHP, > A la Sorbonne,45-47, rue des Ecoles, > 75005 Paris -- France. > JEMHouben at gmail.com > www.jyotistoma.nl > > From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Fri Oct 15 12:15:43 2010 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 10 14:15:43 +0200 Subject: Position for PhD student or Post-doc Message-ID: <161227090498.23782.3372732264378791860.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5675 Lines: 161 dear Colleagues, I would appreciate your assistance in making known the following opportunity. ** Starting September 2011 the Leiden Institute for Area Studies has one full time (38 hrs) vacancy, available as a 4 year PhD position *or* 3 year Post-Doctoral fellowship, in the VICI project "Buddhism and Social Justice: Doctrine, Ideology and Discrimination in Tension," headed by Prof dr. Jonathan A. Silk. Project description Buddhism is widely perceived to be, and Buddhist sources themselves promote the tradition as, a philosophy of liberation. Yet, as perhaps everywhere, Buddhist societies, both ancient and modern, not only evidence, but indeed seem to promote, social inequalities. The project ?Buddhism and Social Justice? explores the inner tensions in Buddhist cultures between inherited core values and social realities, with specific foci on questions of labor (e.g., slavery and forced labor, serfdom) and social status (e.g., caste and discrimination). The project as originally conceived consisted of five studies: a core investigation of slavery and caste in India, and studies on slavery in Korea, burakumin (?outcastes?) in Japan, ?serfdom? and monastic economy in Tibet, and ethnicity and Buddhism in Sri Lanka. At present members of the project will study slavery and caste in India, slavery in Korea, ?serfdom? and monastic economy in Tibet, and ethnicity and Buddhism in Bhutan. These are approached through text-historical, historical and a socio-anthropological methods. The synergy between the projects lies in the question of how Buddhist ways of thinking and acting inform and structure historically Buddhist Asian societies, and how, correspondingly, Buddhist ideologies and dogmas were transformed in historical contexts. This study seeks therefore to uncover the links between the ancient and the modern and the theoretical and the real-world, thereby leading both to a deeper appreciation of how religious systems function in societies in general, and to a more nuanced appreciation of the dynamics of historically Buddhist societies in general, particularly with respect to questions of social justice. As such, the work is situated not only within the realms of Buddhist Studies and Asian History, but also at the juncture of Religious Studies, Political Science and Anthropology, as it engages issues of Church and Society, Slavery Studies, and the study of Race, Ethnicity and Caste. *The available position is for a scholar interested in investigating, from the viewpoint of Buddhist Studies, some aspect of Buddhism and Social Justice not currently covered in the project. Because the focus of the study is Buddhism, familiarity with the history, doctrine and relevant original languages of Buddhist traditions is essential*. Tasks - The writing of a PhD dissertation; - publishing research results in the form of (an) article(s) and/or books; - presenting papers at (international) conferences, including the final conference of the project; - participation in local research meetings and PhD teaching; - organizing roundtable meetings and conferences in the framework of the research project. Requirements - an MA, M.Phil or equivalent degree in a relevant field; - research knowledge of the language(s) necessary for the project; - fluency in English (spoken and written) and competence in other relevant modern languages; - ability to work independently. *Post-Doctoral Fellowship* applicants should have a demonstrably excellent academic track record in Buddhist Studies, and hold a PhD in Buddhist Studies or a related field, or its equivalent. They should have an excellent command of English and be prepared to present their research results in English. Applicants will teach a small number of courses on topics within their area of specialization, and assistance in guiding the PhD students. Conditions of employment The position of the Postdoctoral fellow is temporary, max. three years with a full-time appointment (38 hours per week). The position of PhD-fellow (?promovendus?) is temporary, max. four years with a full-time appointment, and with an initial 18-month trial period. The salary is determined in accordance with the current scales as set out in the collective labor agreement for the Dutch universities (CAO): Postdoctoral fellow: min. ? 2.379, max. ? 4.374 PhD fellow: min. ? 2.042 - max. ? 2.612 Information For more information about the position please contact Prof. dr. J.A Silk, tel. +31-71-5272510, email j.a.silk [at] hum.leidenuniv.nl, and see the full project description at http://hum.leiden.edu/lias/research/sas/vici-project-silk.html Application PhD candidates please send your application (in English), including: - a cover letter stating your motivation for this position, - a CV - copies of your academic transcripts (or Dutch cijferlijst), - a writing sample (such as your MA thesis), and - two letters of reference. Post-doc candidates please send your application (in English), including: - a cover letter stating your motivation for this position, - a CV, - copies of your academic transcripts, - a printed copy of your PhD thesis and other relevant publications, and - three letters of reference. Please send your application indicating the application number before the deadline of *30 November 2010* to: vacatureslias at hum.leidenuniv.nl -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Mon Oct 18 01:11:22 2010 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 10 21:11:22 -0400 Subject: E-text of Saddaniti? Message-ID: <161227090500.23782.3145810472984036114.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 346 Lines: 13 Dear Indologists, I would appreciate if someone has or knows how to access either a pdf or an e-text of Aggavamsa's Saddaniti. Thanks. Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA From torella at UNIROMA1.IT Mon Oct 18 07:31:08 2010 From: torella at UNIROMA1.IT (raffaele torella) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 10 09:31:08 +0200 Subject: Sanskrit in Kerala Message-ID: <161227090505.23782.1314452373221029962.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 403 Lines: 22 Dear Colleagues, I am looking for the email address of Sankritists (particularly, vyakarana specialists) in Kerala Universities (Trivandrum, Calicut, etc.). Any help would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Raffaele Torella -- Prof. Raffaele Torella Chair of Sanskrit Facolt? di Studi Orientali Universit? di Roma 'La Sapienza' via Principe Amedeo 182b, 00185 Rome (Italy) fax +39 06 49385915 From mark.allon at SYDNEY.EDU.AU Mon Oct 18 01:33:22 2010 From: mark.allon at SYDNEY.EDU.AU (Mark Allon) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 10 12:33:22 +1100 Subject: E-text of Saddaniti? In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D717C44BE1DB@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227090502.23782.17766233421438110407.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 789 Lines: 33 Dear Madhav, > I would appreciate if someone has or knows how to access either a > pdf or an e-text of Aggavamsa's Saddaniti. Thanks. > > Madhav M. Deshpande This was recently brought to my attention on another list (Pali Study list): Vol. 1: http://asi.nic.in/asi_books/2699.pdf Vol. 2: http://asi.nic.in/asi_books/2700.pdf Vol. 3: http://asi.nic.in/asi_books/2701.pdf Vol. 4: http://asi.nic.in/asi_books/2702.pdf Vol. 5: http://asi.nic.in/asi_books/2665.pdf It appears that Vol. 5: parts 1 and 2 (index of Pali words) are missing. Regards Mark Dr Mark Allon Chair, Department of Indian Subcontinental Studies (http://www.arts.usyd.edu.au/indian/) University of Sydney Woolley Building A20 Sydney NSW 2006, Australia Phone 02-93513891; fax 02-93512319 From hwtull at MSN.COM Mon Oct 18 20:57:20 2010 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 10 16:57:20 -0400 Subject: eighteen In-Reply-To: <4C9A9DB1.3030103@anu.edu.au> Message-ID: <161227090507.23782.17428852721200755075.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1715 Lines: 58 I apologize if this question is a terribly ignorant one, but I was wondering if there is any scholarly literature or any discussion of the significance of the Indic "18" (dominant in the Mahabharata--books, days of war, etc., etc., and then reiterated in the Puranas in the so-called "major" and "minor" books denotation). This has long seemed to me to be some sort of convenient fiction used to tie up loose ends (not unlike the twelve disciples of Jesus recalling the twelve tribes of Israel). However, as I sat in an introductory Buddhism lecture today, and was reminded about the famed 18 schools of the Mahasanghika(s), I started to think, there might be a bit more (or, perhaps no more at all). Thanks. Herman Tull -------------------------------------------------- From: "McComas Taylor" Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 8:22 PM To: Subject: [INDOLOGY] Student project:Abhij??na?akuntalam > Dear Colleague > > Two fine 3rd year students at the ANU have produced a wonderful > stop-animation of a snippet of Abhij??na?akuntalam > > Please see: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2yHWMS62O0 > > I am sure they would love to hear from you: > > Annie McCarthy > > and > > Patrick McCartney > > Yours > > McComas Taylor > > > -- > =============================== > Dr McComas Taylor > Head, South Asia Program > College of Asia and the Pacific > The Australian National University > ACTON ACT 0200 > > Tel: +61 2 6125 3179 > Fax: +61 2 6125 8326 > > Email: mccomas.taylor at anu.edu.au > http://tinyurl.com/38cj94n > Location: Room E4.24 Baldessin Precinct Building From athr at LOC.GOV Mon Oct 18 21:27:02 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 10 17:27:02 -0400 Subject: Bhajan Lal MSS dealer In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F15135F2D11@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227090509.23782.3116849178398666340.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 883 Lines: 13 Dominik, My colleague Christopher Murphy in the African and Middle Eastern Division has supplied me with a scan, which I am sending you separately, of one of the labels on the Persian and Arabic manuscripts we bought from Probsthain, and they are Bhajan Lal's, not Probsthain's or anyone's else. The labels are all the same. The handwriting appears to me different from that on the mss Horace Poleman bought in 1941 and the card index thereof, and anyway there are no printed labels on those. If you want to discuss them further with Chris, his email is cmur at loc.gov, but please carbon me. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From lubint at WLU.EDU Tue Oct 19 03:00:21 2010 From: lubint at WLU.EDU (Lubin, Tim) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 10 23:00:21 -0400 Subject: Book announcement: Hinduism and Law Message-ID: <161227090515.23782.14765871271049159360.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 679 Lines: 16 Just published (in UK, imminently in US): _Hinduism and Law: An Introduction_ Edited by Timothy Lubin, Donald R. Davis, Jr., and Jayanth K. Krishnan Cambridge University Press, 2010 http://www.cambridge.org/uk/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=9780521887861&ss=fro US: http://www.cambridge.org/us/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=9780521716260 http://books.google.com/books?id=MtuhClbfL7EC Contributors:Timothy Lubin, Donald R. Davis, Jr, Jayanth Krishnan, Patrick Olivelle, Axel Michaels, Rosane Rocher, Rachel Sturman, Rina Verma Williams, Lawrence McCrea, Ananya Vajpeyi, Whitney Cox, Robert Yelle, Richard Davis, Aditya Malik, Laura Dudley Jenkins, Smita Narula Best, Tim Lubin From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Mon Oct 18 21:30:21 2010 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 10 23:30:21 +0200 Subject: eighteen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090512.23782.7088652714862732292.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1237 Lines: 19 Am 18.10.2010 um 22:57 schrieb Herman Tull: > I apologize if this question is a terribly ignorant one, but I was wondering if there is any scholarly literature or any discussion of the significance of the Indic "18" (dominant in the Mahabharata--books, days of war, etc., etc., and then reiterated in the Puranas in the so-called "major" and "minor" books denotation). This has long seemed to me to be some sort of convenient fiction used to tie up loose ends (not unlike the twelve disciples of Jesus recalling the twelve tribes of Israel). However, as I sat in an introductory Buddhism lecture today, and was reminded about the famed 18 schools of the Mahasanghika(s), I started to think, there might be a bit more (or, perhaps no more at all). Thanks. There is an older article by Otto Stein: Stein, Otto: The numeral 18, in: Poona Orientalist 1 (1936), p. 1-37 and a short sequel, Stein, Otto: Additional notes on the numeral 18, in: Poona Orientalist 2 (1937), p. 164-165 (both repr. in Otto Stein: Kleine Schriften / ed. by Friedrich Wilhelm. - Stuttgart : Steiner, 1985, pp. 515 seqq.). Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn From J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK Tue Oct 19 08:14:07 2010 From: J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK (J L Brockington) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 10 09:14:07 +0100 Subject: eighteen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090517.23782.7905199410677883425.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2451 Lines: 70 Dear Colleagues, There is also some treatment of 18 in several articles on numbers as a whole, e.g. Siegfried Lienhard, "Lucky Numbers in Ancient Indian Literature", Langue, style et structure dans le monde indien: Centenaire de Louis Renou, ed. Nalini Balbir et Georges-Jean Pinault, Champion, Paris, 1996, pp. 523-36, and S.S.N. Murthy, "Number Symbolism in the Vedas", Electronic Journalof Vedic Studies 12.3, 2005, pp. 87-99, also my own "Meaningful Numbers?", Research Bulletin, Vishveshvaranand Vedic Research Institute 4 & 5, 2006, pp. 21-64. John Brockington Professor J. L. Brockington Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies Asian Studies 7-8 Buccleuch Place Edinburgh EH8 9LW ----- Message from pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE --------- Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 23:30:21 +0200 From: Peter Wyzlic Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] eighteen To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Am 18.10.2010 um 22:57 schrieb Herman Tull: > >> I apologize if this question is a terribly ignorant one, but I was >> wondering if there is any scholarly literature or any discussion of >> the significance of the Indic "18" (dominant in the >> Mahabharata--books, days of war, etc., etc., and then reiterated in >> the Puranas in the so-called "major" and "minor" books >> denotation). This has long seemed to me to be some sort of >> convenient fiction used to tie up loose ends (not unlike the >> twelve disciples of Jesus recalling the twelve tribes of Israel). >> However, as I sat in an introductory Buddhism lecture today, and >> was reminded about the famed 18 schools of the Mahasanghika(s), I >> started to think, there might be a bit more (or, perhaps no more >> at all). Thanks. > > There is an older article by Otto Stein: > Stein, Otto: The numeral 18, in: Poona Orientalist 1 (1936), p. 1-37 > and a short sequel, Stein, Otto: Additional notes on the numeral > 18, in: Poona Orientalist 2 (1937), p. 164-165 (both repr. in Otto > Stein: Kleine Schriften / ed. by Friedrich Wilhelm. - Stuttgart : > Steiner, 1985, pp. 515 seqq.). > > Hope it helps > Peter Wyzlic > > -- > Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften > Bibliothek > Universit?t Bonn > Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 > 53113 Bonn ----- End message from pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE ----- -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. From straube at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE Tue Oct 19 08:53:08 2010 From: straube at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE (Martin Straube) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 10 10:53:08 +0200 Subject: eighteen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090519.23782.11008769558913811729.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2120 Lines: 64 Also: Lienhard, Siegfried: Lucky Numbers in Ancient Indian Literature, in: Langue, style et structure dans le monde indien. Centenaire de Louis Renou. Actes du Colloque international (Paris, 25 ?27 janvier 1996), ?dit?s par Nalini Balbir et Georges-Jean Pinault avec la collaboration de Jean Fezas. Paris 1996. (Biblioth?que de l??cole des Hautes ?tudes, Sciences Historiques et philologiques, 334), p. 523? 536. Martin Straube Zitat von Peter Wyzlic : > Am 18.10.2010 um 22:57 schrieb Herman Tull: > >> I apologize if this question is a terribly ignorant one, but I was >> wondering if there is any scholarly literature or any discussion of >> the significance of the Indic "18" (dominant in the >> Mahabharata--books, days of war, etc., etc., and then reiterated in >> the Puranas in the so-called "major" and "minor" books denotation). >> This has long seemed to me to be some sort of convenient fiction >> used to tie up loose ends (not unlike the twelve disciples of Jesus >> recalling the twelve tribes of Israel). However, as I sat in an >> introductory Buddhism lecture today, and was reminded about the >> famed 18 schools of the Mahasanghika(s), I started to think, there >> might be a bit more (or, perhaps no more at all). Thanks. > > There is an older article by Otto Stein: > Stein, Otto: The numeral 18, in: Poona Orientalist 1 (1936), p. 1-37 > and a short sequel, Stein, Otto: Additional notes on the numeral 18, > in: Poona Orientalist 2 (1937), p. 164-165 (both repr. in Otto > Stein: Kleine Schriften / ed. by Friedrich Wilhelm. - Stuttgart : > Steiner, 1985, pp. 515 seqq.). > > Hope it helps > Peter Wyzlic > > -- > Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften > Bibliothek > Universit?t Bonn > Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 > 53113 Bonn > > -- Dr. Martin Straube Martin-Luther-Universit?t Halle-Wittenberg Seminar f?r Indologie Emil-Abderhalden-Str. 9 D-06099 Halle (Saale) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Philipps-Universit?t Marburg Fachgebiet Indologie und Tibetologie Deutschhausstr. 12 D-35032 Marburg www.uni-marburg.de/indologie From beitel at GWU.EDU Tue Oct 19 15:46:58 2010 From: beitel at GWU.EDU (Alfred Hiltebeitel) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 10 11:46:58 -0400 Subject: eighteen In-Reply-To: <20101019105308.127610t9lalgfl2o@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Message-ID: <161227090539.23782.1513447928113604372.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2881 Lines: 95 -I see that I mis-addressed this yesterday: On usages of the number 18, see also, for some discussion, Madeleine Biardeau, Le Mahabharata: Un recit fondateur du brahmanisme et son interpretation (Paris: Seuil, 2002), vol. 1, pp. 548-50, 700, 737 and n. 14. Alf Hiltebeitel Professor of Religion and Human Sciences Department of Religion 2106 G Street, NW George Washington University Washington DC 20052 ----- Original Message ----- From: Martin Straube Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 4:53 am Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] eighteen To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Also: > Lienhard, Siegfried: Lucky Numbers in Ancient Indian Literature, in: > > Langue, style et structure dans le monde indien. Centenaire de Louis > > Renou. Actes du Colloque international (Paris, 25 ?27 janvier 1996), > > ?dit?s par Nalini Balbir et Georges-Jean Pinault avec la collaboration > > de Jean Fezas. Paris 1996. (Biblioth?que de l??cole des Hautes ?tudes, > > Sciences Historiques et philologiques, 334), p. 523? 536. > > Martin Straube > > Zitat von Peter Wyzlic : > > > Am 18.10.2010 um 22:57 schrieb Herman Tull: > > > >> I apologize if this question is a terribly ignorant one, but I was > > >> wondering if there is any scholarly literature or any discussion of > > >> the significance of the Indic "18" (dominant in the > >> Mahabharata--books, days of war, etc., etc., and then reiterated in > > >> the Puranas in the so-called "major" and "minor" books denotation). > > >> This has long seemed to me to be some sort of convenient fiction > > >> used to tie up loose ends (not unlike the twelve disciples of Jesus > > >> recalling the twelve tribes of Israel). However, as I sat in an > >> introductory Buddhism lecture today, and was reminded about the > >> famed 18 schools of the Mahasanghika(s), I started to think, there > > >> might be a bit more (or, perhaps no more at all). Thanks. > > > > There is an older article by Otto Stein: > > Stein, Otto: The numeral 18, in: Poona Orientalist 1 (1936), p. 1-37 > > > and a short sequel, Stein, Otto: Additional notes on the numeral 18, > > > in: Poona Orientalist 2 (1937), p. 164-165 (both repr. in Otto > > Stein: Kleine Schriften / ed. by Friedrich Wilhelm. - Stuttgart : > > Steiner, 1985, pp. 515 seqq.). > > > > Hope it helps > > Peter Wyzlic > > > > -- > > Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften > > Bibliothek > > Universit?t Bonn > > Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 > > 53113 Bonn > > > > > > > > -- > Dr. Martin Straube > > Martin-Luther-Universit?t Halle-Wittenberg > Seminar f?r Indologie > Emil-Abderhalden-Str. 9 > D-06099 Halle (Saale) > www.indologie.uni-halle.de > > Philipps-Universit?t Marburg > Fachgebiet Indologie und Tibetologie > Deutschhausstr. 12 > D-35032 Marburg > www.uni-marburg.de/indologie From andra.kleb at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Tue Oct 19 09:57:15 2010 From: andra.kleb at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (Andrey Klebanov) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 10 11:57:15 +0200 Subject: pa~ncavidyaa's at the Buddhist monasteries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090522.23782.7222682262483078182.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 364 Lines: 8 Dear list, I would be thankful for any bibliographical hints on the position of the study of "pa~ncavidyaa's" in the Buddhist monasteries in India and (!) Tibet. So far I could only find some passing references to this matter here and there. Would be grateful for any pointer to a systematic study (or a treatise among primary sources) Best, Andrey Klebanov From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Oct 19 10:53:17 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 10 12:53:17 +0200 Subject: Bhajan Lal labels Message-ID: <161227090528.23782.8441106868838033022.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1283 Lines: 25 Here are images of: 1. a Bhajan Lal MS label from one of the MSS in the Woolner Collection, Lahore. (See http://woolnerproject.org for further background), and 2. a second label from a MS in the Wellcome Library in London ( http://library.wellcome.ac.uk/asian.html or, e.g., their photo library .) Best, Dominik -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bhajanlallabel740-08.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 141906 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bhajanlalWellcomeMS.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 268581 bytes Desc: not available URL: From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Oct 19 20:11:20 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 10 16:11:20 -0400 Subject: Bhajan Lal MSS dealer In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F15135F2D11@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227090557.23782.2471700273698342153.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2693 Lines: 31 Dominik has shrunk the scan of a Bhajan Lal label supplied for me by Christopher Murphy, Turkish specialist and head of the Near Eastern Section in the African and Middle Eastern Division of LOC so that the system does not refuse the attachment as too large. About five years ago AMED purchased a number of manuscripts that had been offered by Arthur Probsthain. Before purchase they had inspected them carefully for indications that there might be national patrimony issues. The Asian division also had its eye on a collection of Indo-Aryan language manuscripts at a reasonable price, but the money came through just after Probsthain had already sold them. The Chinese section, however, did buy a number of Chinese manuscripts and early printed books. I recall that the Indo-Aryan manuscripts each had a printed label with items to be filled in by hand. I presume they were also Bhajan Lal collections but can't remember and don't have any notes about it, and so can't swear to it. Probsthain at this time offered several collections, of Indo-Aryan, Perso-Arabic, and Chinese raria, which had been mislaid for many decades. My notes from that time mention the attic current owner's grandfather's house, but I remember being told it was a corner of the basement of the store, when I visited London. As I said, Horace Poleman bought a collection of over 400 Sanskrit and other Indo-Aryan manuscripts in 1941. One can tell they are a collection by there being a card index for them, their being numbered consecutively on each ms and on the butcher paper wrappers, and their having the same acquisition date written on all. I have never been able to find from whom he bought them. I hope before long to carve out the time to look in the LOC Archives for information on this purchase; however in general LOC does not keep very good records on purchases. Poleman also bought individual mss from various sources. The handwriting in the card index and on the butcher paper seems quite different from Bhajan Lal's or that of whoever filled in Dominik's or AMED's labels. Notably the t's are crossed on the labels but not in the index. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: BhajanLallabelreduced.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 198688 bytes Desc: not available URL: From J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK Tue Oct 19 15:28:44 2010 From: J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK (J L Brockington) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 10 16:28:44 +0100 Subject: eighteen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090536.23782.11975364238998602276.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4395 Lines: 131 Dear Professor Bussanich, So far as I remember, only tangentially. Here is all that I wrote in my articles: Instances of nine squared, eighty-one, are not particularly frequent and I have already given those that I have noticed. However, eighty-four seems to have been favoured in the heterodox movements. According to Maskarin Gos?la, each individual transmigrates for 84,00,000 mah?kalpas. In Jainism, the lifespan of the first and eleventh t?rtha?karas was eighty-four lakhs and that of the eighteenth Jina Aran?tha was 8400 years, while the interval between Nemin?tha and P?r?van?tha is said to have been 84,000 years. For Buddhism, there is the fact that in the Mah?sudarsana Sutta the palace of king Sudarsana had 84,000 pillars and chambers, his territory had 84,000 cities and palaces, and he had 84,000 wives, chariots and so on; also, traditionally A?oka erected 84,000 st?pas.[63] 63. For 84 as 21 x 4 see Gonda, The Vedic Morning Litany (Pr?taranuv?ka), p. 117 n. 4. Yours John Brockington Professor J. L. Brockington Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies Asian Studies 7-8 Buccleuch Place Edinburgh EH8 9LW ----- Message from john.bussanich at gmail.com --------- Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 05:30:17 -0600 From: John Bussanich Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] eighteen To: J L Brockington > Do any of these discuss the 84 lakhs of human incarnations often cited as > necessary before the attainment of mok?a? > > Thanks > > Prof. John Bussanich > Philosophy Department MSC03 2140 > University of New Mexico > Albuquerque, NM 87131 > > > > > On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 2:14 AM, J L Brockington > wrote: > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> There is also some treatment of 18 in several articles on numbers as a >> whole, e.g. Siegfried Lienhard, "Lucky Numbers in Ancient Indian >> Literature", Langue, style et structure dans le monde indien: Centenaire de >> Louis Renou, ed. Nalini Balbir et Georges-Jean Pinault, Champion, Paris, >> 1996, pp. 523-36, and S.S.N. Murthy, "Number Symbolism in the Vedas", >> Electronic Journalof Vedic Studies 12.3, 2005, pp. 87-99, also my own >> "Meaningful Numbers?", Research Bulletin, Vishveshvaranand Vedic Research >> Institute 4 & 5, 2006, pp. 21-64. >> >> John Brockington >> >> >> Professor J. L. Brockington >> Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies >> Asian Studies >> 7-8 Buccleuch Place >> Edinburgh EH8 9LW >> >> >> ----- Message from pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE --------- >> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 23:30:21 +0200 >> From: Peter Wyzlic >> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] eighteen >> >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> >> >> Am 18.10.2010 um 22:57 schrieb Herman Tull: >>> >>> I apologize if this question is a terribly ignorant one, but I was >>>> wondering if there is any scholarly literature or any discussion of the >>>> significance of the Indic "18" (dominant in the >>>> Mahabharata--books, days of >>>> war, etc., etc., and then reiterated in the Puranas in the so-called >>>> "major" and "minor" books denotation). This has long seemed to me to be >>>> some sort of convenient fiction used to tie up loose ends (not unlike the >>>> twelve disciples of Jesus recalling the twelve tribes of >>>> Israel). However, >>>> as I sat in an introductory Buddhism lecture today, and was >>>> reminded about >>>> the famed 18 schools of the Mahasanghika(s), I started to think, there >>>> might be a bit more (or, perhaps no more at all). Thanks. >>>> >>> >>> There is an older article by Otto Stein: >>> Stein, Otto: The numeral 18, in: Poona Orientalist 1 (1936), p. 1-37 and >>> a short sequel, Stein, Otto: Additional notes on the numeral 18, in: Poona >>> Orientalist 2 (1937), p. 164-165 (both repr. in Otto Stein: Kleine >>> Schriften / ed. by Friedrich Wilhelm. - Stuttgart : Steiner, 1985, pp. 515 >>> seqq.). >>> >>> Hope it helps >>> Peter Wyzlic >>> >>> -- >>> Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften >>> Bibliothek >>> Universit?t Bonn >>> Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 >>> 53113 Bonn >>> >> >> ----- End message from pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE ----- ----- End message from john.bussanich at gmail.com ----- -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Oct 19 14:37:50 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 10 16:37:50 +0200 Subject: The file attachment size-limit for INDOLOGY postings is 1 megabyte Message-ID: <161227090533.23782.10186238006260020653.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 107 Lines: 8 The file attachment size-limit for INDOLOGY postings is currently set at 1 megabyte. Dominik INDOLOGY. From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Tue Oct 19 16:05:22 2010 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 10 18:05:22 +0200 Subject: What about thirty-seven? [why is it UNEQUAL to 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9] (Re: [INDOLOGY] eighteen Message-ID: <161227090542.23782.8078692449678964791.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2906 Lines: 89 Since a number of people on this list seem ready to provide pieces of information concerning numbers, I wonder whether today might not be the right/auspicious occasion for finding an answer to a question which I have had for some time. While going through the 2008 volume (/Genesis and Development of Tantrism/) edited by Shingo EINOO my eye was caught by the first words inside footnote 575 [which is on the page 247 of that volume] inside the article by professor A. Sanderson, because they are connected with a number (= "37") in which I have been interested for quite some time. The footnote reads: "Three thousand seven hundred goats and thirty seven buffalos were to be sacrificed: a hundred goats and one buffalo on the first day, two hundred goats and two buffaloes on the second day, three hundred goats and three buffaloes on the third day, and so on, so that nine hundred goats and nine buffaloes were sacrificed on the ninth day (Mahānavamī). ..." The problem is, however, that 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9 = 45 (and not 37) Could it be that this source is based on two contradictory sources, which it tries to reconcile? (this would explain why the calculation is incorrect) I have been intrigued by number 37 ever since I read in the 1967 book, /The Interior Landscape/, by A.K. Ramanujan, commenting on the duration of the "three [Tamil] Sangams" [namely 4,440, 3,700 and 1850 years] that: ** It has been pointed out that these numbers are suspiciously regular multiples of 37; the Jains had a passion for numbers. Does anyone have an explanation for the discrepancy which is found in the text reproduced inside Professor Sanderson's footnote? (and [as a QUESTION SUBSIDIAIRE] for the duration of the Tamil Sangams) Best wishes -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Pondicherry) P.S. A few people might find it suggestive that according to page 41 inside a 1996 book by John H. Conway & Richard K. Guy (/The book of numbers/, ISBN 0-387-97993-X), the number 37 is the 4th "Hex Number". On 19/10/2010 02:27, Herman Tull wrote: > I apologize if this question is a terribly ignorant one, but I was > wondering if there is any scholarly literature or any discussion of the > significance of the Indic "18" (dominant in the Mahabharata--books, days > of war, etc., etc., and then reiterated in the Puranas in the so-called > "major" and "minor" books denotation). This has long seemed to me to be > some sort of convenient fiction used to tie up loose ends (not unlike > the twelve disciples of Jesus recalling the twelve tribes of Israel). > However, as I sat in an introductory Buddhism lecture today, and was > reminded about the famed 18 schools of the Mahasanghika(s), I started to > think, there might be a bit more (or, perhaps no more at all). Thanks. > > Herman Tull > > -------------------------------------------------- [...] From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Tue Oct 19 17:44:41 2010 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 10 19:44:41 +0200 Subject: What about thirty-seven? [why is it UNEQUAL to 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9] (Re: [INDOLOGY] eighteen Message-ID: <161227090548.23782.7499459059805070181.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5490 Lines: 127 Dear Professor Dipak Bhattacharya, It is true that 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8 = 36 and that 36+1 = 37. A historical shift (from 8 to 9) might indeed be an explanation. Of course it is explaining obscure things by making use of obscure things, but such is life for indologists ;-) There are domains in which pretty much everything is obscure. Just in case a few of the members on this list are not terrified by arithmetics (I am not! :-)) and since this list now allows attachments, please find attached to this message an image which is scanned from a page inside /The Book of Numbers/ [1996](by Conway and Guy) which I mentioned earlier). Best wishes to all -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Pondicherry) On 19/10/2010 22:11, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > --- On Tue, 19/10/10, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > From: Dipak Bhattacharya > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] What about thirty-seven? [why is it UNEQUAL to 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9] (Re: [INDOLOGY] eighteen > To: "Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD" > Date: Tuesday, 19 October, 2010, 4:40 PM > The origin of mythological numbers may lie in the same urge to aver completeness/fullness but post-substratum ramifications may be caused by various and apparently unrelated causes. One possibility might lie in the addition of 1 (Gonda Triads) by way of adding greater weight. 36 is the original number conceived somewhere and sometime as a basic number of completeness got by increasing by 1 from 1 up to 8. 37 is just greater. The cakras are 7 in the Śākta tantras but are termed Ṣaṭcakra - the original appellation in the Buddhist tantras where they are actually six in number (D.Bh.1979) to which 1 is added in the Śākta tantras. The retained appellation shows the origin. > Best > DB > --- On Tue, 19/10/10, Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD wrote: > From: Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD > Subject: [INDOLOGY] What about thirty-seven? [why is it UNEQUAL to 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9] (Re: [INDOLOGY] eighteen > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Tuesday, 19 October, 2010, 4:05 PM > Since a number of people on this list seem ready to provide pieces of information concerning numbers, I wonder whether today might not be the right/auspicious occasion for finding an answer to a question which I have had for some time. > While going through the 2008 volume > (/Genesis and Development of Tantrism/) > edited by Shingo EINOO > my eye was caught by the first words inside > footnote 575 > [which is on the page 247 of that volume] > inside the article by professor A. Sanderson, > because they are connected with a number (= "37") > in which I have been > interested for quite some time. > The footnote reads: > > "Three thousand seven hundred goats and thirty seven buffalos were to > be sacrificed: > a hundred goats and one buffalo on the first day, > two hundred goats and two buffaloes on the second day, > three hundred goats and three buffaloes on the third day, > and so on, so that > nine hundred goats and nine buffaloes were sacrificed on the ninth day > (Mahānavamī). ..." > > The problem is, however, > that 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9 = 45 (and not 37) > Could it be that this source is based on two contradictory sources, > which it tries to reconcile? > (this would explain why the calculation is incorrect) > I have been intrigued by number 37 > ever since I read in the 1967 book, /The Interior Landscape/, > by A.K. Ramanujan, > commenting on the duration of the "three [Tamil] Sangams" > [namely 4,440, 3,700 and 1850 years] > that: > > ** It has been pointed out that these numbers are suspiciously regular > multiples of 37; > the Jains had a passion for numbers. > > Does anyone have an explanation for the discrepancy > which is found in the text reproduced inside Professor Sanderson's footnote? (and [as a QUESTION SUBSIDIAIRE] for the duration of the Tamil Sangams) > Best wishes > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Pondicherry) > P.S. A few people might find it suggestive > that according to page 41 inside a 1996 book > by John H. Conway& Richard K. Guy > (/The book of numbers/, ISBN 0-387-97993-X), > the number 37 is the 4th "Hex Number". > On 19/10/2010 02:27, Herman Tull wrote: >> I apologize if this question is a terribly ignorant one, but I was wondering if there is any scholarly literature or any discussion of the significance of the Indic "18" (dominant in the Mahabharata--books, days of war, etc., etc., and then reiterated in the Puranas in the so-called "major" and "minor" books denotation). This has long seemed to me to be some sort of convenient fiction used to tie up loose ends (not unlike the twelve disciples of Jesus recalling the twelve tribes of Israel). However, as I sat in an introductory Buddhism lecture today, and was reminded about the famed 18 schools of the Mahasanghika(s), I started to think, there might be a bit more (or, perhaps no more at all). Thanks. >> >> Herman Tull >> -------------------------------------------------- > [...] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 37_as_the_4th_Hex_numberConway_et_alii_1996.a Type: application/octet-stream Size: 90301 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Tue Oct 19 18:47:20 2010 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 10 20:47:20 +0200 Subject: Post-Scriptum [=wishful thinking] (Re: What about thirty-seven? [why is it UNEQUAL to 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9] (Re: [INDOLOGY] eighteen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090552.23782.541598808167627748.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6082 Lines: 171 Post-Scriptum: Of course, since I personally find the idea that anyone might want to slaughter "Three thousand seven hundred goats" AND/OR "thirty seven buffaloes" UNBEARABLE, I have to make the assumption that MY HIDDEN INTENTION in making this post is to prove that the mistake in the addition (/id est/ the fact that 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9 and 37 are NOT EQUAL) definitely PROVES that such sacrifices never took place (otherwise they would have noticed that there was a mistake in the addition). But unfortunately, I know that this is just wishful thinking :-(( -- jlc On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 19:44:41 +0200 "Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD" wrote: > Dear Professor Dipak Bhattacharya, > It is true that 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8 = 36 > and that 36+1 = 37. > A historical shift (from 8 to 9) might indeed be an explanation. > Of course it is explaining obscure things by making use of obscure >things, but such is life for indologists ;-) > There are domains in which pretty much everything is obscure. > Just in case a few of the members on this list are not terrified by >arithmetics (I am not! :-)) and since this list now allows >attachments, please find attached to this message an image which is >scanned from a page inside /The Book of Numbers/ [1996](by Conway and >Guy) which I mentioned earlier). > Best wishes to all > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Pondicherry) > On 19/10/2010 22:11, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: >> --- On Tue, 19/10/10, Dipak >>Bhattacharya wrote: >> From: Dipak Bhattacharya >> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] What about thirty-seven? [why is it UNEQUAL >>to 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9] (Re: [INDOLOGY] eighteen >> To: "Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD" >> Date: Tuesday, 19 October, 2010, 4:40 PM >> The origin of mythological numbers may lie in the same urge to aver >>completeness/fullness but post-substratum ramifications may be caused >>by various and apparently unrelated causes. One possibility might lie >>in the addition of 1 (Gonda Triads) by way of adding greater weight. >>36 is the original number conceived somewhere and sometime as a basic >>number of completeness got by increasing by 1 from 1 up to 8. 37 is >>just greater. The cakras are 7 in the Śākta tantras but >>are termed Ṣaṭcakra - the original appellation in the >>Buddhist tantras where they are actually six in number (D.Bh.1979) to >>which 1 is added in the Śākta tantras. The retained >>appellation shows the origin. >> Best >> DB >> --- On Tue, 19/10/10, Jean-Luc >>CHEVILLARD wrote: >> From: Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD >> Subject: [INDOLOGY] What about thirty-seven? [why is it UNEQUAL to >>1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9] (Re: [INDOLOGY] eighteen >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Date: Tuesday, 19 October, 2010, 4:05 PM >> Since a number of people on this list seem ready to provide pieces >>of information concerning numbers, I wonder whether today might not >>be the right/auspicious occasion for finding an answer to a question >>which I have had for some time. >> While going through the 2008 volume >> (/Genesis and Development of Tantrism/) >> edited by Shingo EINOO >> my eye was caught by the first words inside >> footnote 575 >> [which is on the page 247 of that volume] >> inside the article by professor A. Sanderson, >> because they are connected with a number (= "37") >> in which I have been >> interested for quite some time. >> The footnote reads: >> >> "Three thousand seven hundred goats and thirty seven buffalos were >>to >> be sacrificed: >> a hundred goats and one buffalo on the first day, >> two hundred goats and two buffaloes on the second day, >> three hundred goats and three buffaloes on the third day, >> and so on, so that >> nine hundred goats and nine buffaloes were sacrificed on the ninth >>day >> (Mahānavamī). ..." >> >> The problem is, however, >> that 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9 = 45 (and not 37) >> Could it be that this source is based on two contradictory sources, >> which it tries to reconcile? >> (this would explain why the calculation is incorrect) >> I have been intrigued by number 37 >> ever since I read in the 1967 book, /The Interior Landscape/, >> by A.K. Ramanujan, >> commenting on the duration of the "three [Tamil] Sangams" >> [namely 4,440, 3,700 and 1850 years] >> that: >> >> ** It has been pointed out that these numbers are suspiciously >>regular >> multiples of 37; >> the Jains had a passion for numbers. >> >> Does anyone have an explanation for the discrepancy >> which is found in the text reproduced inside Professor Sanderson's >>footnote? (and [as a QUESTION SUBSIDIAIRE] for the duration of the >>Tamil Sangams) >> Best wishes >> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Pondicherry) >> P.S. A few people might find it suggestive >> that according to page 41 inside a 1996 book >> by John H. Conway& Richard K. Guy >> (/The book of numbers/, ISBN 0-387-97993-X), >> the number 37 is the 4th "Hex Number". >> On 19/10/2010 02:27, Herman Tull wrote: >>> I apologize if this question is a terribly ignorant one, but I was >>>wondering if there is any scholarly literature or any discussion of >>>the significance of the Indic "18" (dominant in the >>>Mahabharata--books, days of war, etc., etc., and then reiterated in >>>the Puranas in the so-called "major" and "minor" books denotation). >>>This has long seemed to me to be some sort of convenient fiction used >>>to tie up loose ends (not unlike the twelve disciples of Jesus >>>recalling the twelve tribes of Israel). However, as I sat in an >>>introductory Buddhism lecture today, and was reminded about the famed >>>18 schools of the Mahasanghika(s), I started to think, there might be >>>a bit more (or, perhaps no more at all). Thanks. > >>> >>> Herman Tull >>> -------------------------------------------------- >> [...] From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Tue Oct 19 16:41:58 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 10 22:11:58 +0530 Subject: Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] What about thirty-seven? [why is it UNEQUAL to 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9] (Re: [INDOLOGY] eighteen Message-ID: <161227090545.23782.2959602340921396280.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4292 Lines: 105 --- On Tue, 19/10/10, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] What about thirty-seven? [why is it UNEQUAL to 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9] (Re: [INDOLOGY] eighteen To: "Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD" Date: Tuesday, 19 October, 2010, 4:40 PM The origin of mythological numbers may lie in the same urge to aver completeness/fullness but?post-substratum ramifications may be caused by various and apparently unrelated causes. One possibility might lie in the addition of 1 (Gonda Triads) by way of adding greater weight. 36 is the original number conceived somewhere and sometime as a basic number of completeness got by increasing by 1 from 1 up to 8. 37 is just greater. ?The cakras are 7 in the ??kta tantras but are termed ?a?cakra - the original appellation in the Buddhist tantras where they are actually six in number (D.Bh.1979) to which 1 is added in the ??kta tantras. The retained appellation shows the origin. Best DB --- On Tue, 19/10/10, Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD wrote: From: Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD Subject: [INDOLOGY] What about thirty-seven? [why is it UNEQUAL to 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9] (Re: [INDOLOGY] eighteen To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 19 October, 2010, 4:05 PM Since a number of people on this list seem ready to provide pieces of information concerning numbers, I wonder whether today might not be the right/auspicious occasion for finding an answer to a question which I have had for some time. While going through the 2008 volume (/Genesis and Development of Tantrism/) edited by Shingo EINOO my eye was caught by the first words inside footnote 575 [which is on the page 247 of that volume] inside the article by professor A. Sanderson, because they are connected with a number (= "37") in which I have been interested for quite some time. The footnote reads: "Three thousand seven hundred goats and thirty seven buffalos were to be sacrificed: a hundred goats and one buffalo on the first day, two hundred goats and two buffaloes on the second day, three hundred goats and three buffaloes on the third day, and so on, so that nine hundred goats and nine buffaloes were sacrificed on the ninth day (Mah?navam?). ..." The problem is, however, that 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9 = 45 (and not 37) Could it be that this source is based on two contradictory sources, which it tries to reconcile? (this would explain why the calculation is incorrect) I have been intrigued by number 37 ever since I read in the 1967 book, /The Interior Landscape/, by A.K. Ramanujan, commenting on the duration of the "three [Tamil] Sangams" [namely 4,440, 3,700 and 1850 years] that: ** It has been pointed out that these numbers are suspiciously regular multiples of 37; the Jains had a passion for numbers. Does anyone have an explanation for the discrepancy which is found in the text reproduced inside Professor Sanderson's footnote? (and [as a QUESTION SUBSIDIAIRE] for the duration of the Tamil Sangams) Best wishes -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Pondicherry) P.S. A few people might find it suggestive that according to page 41 inside a 1996 book by? John H. Conway & Richard K. Guy (/The book of numbers/, ISBN 0-387-97993-X), the number 37 is the 4th "Hex Number". On 19/10/2010 02:27, Herman Tull wrote: > I apologize if this question is a terribly ignorant one, but I was wondering if there is any scholarly literature or any discussion of the significance of the Indic "18" (dominant in the Mahabharata--books, days of war, etc., etc., and then reiterated in the Puranas in the so-called "major" and "minor" books denotation). This has long seemed to me to be some sort of convenient fiction used to tie up loose ends (not unlike the twelve disciples of Jesus recalling the twelve tribes of Israel). However, as I sat in an introductory Buddhism lecture today, and was reminded about the famed 18 schools of the Mahasanghika(s), I started to think, there might be a bit more (or, perhaps no more at all). Thanks. > > Herman Tull > > -------------------------------------------------- [...] From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Wed Oct 20 08:29:11 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 10 03:29:11 -0500 Subject: What about thirty-seven? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090565.23782.4185320183506999904.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 447 Lines: 15 The late Alex Wayman once wrote a piece in which he sought to explain the 37 Buddhas of the Mahaayaana rite of contrition as an originally astral grouping. I am sorry that I do not have the precise reference at hand just now, but it's in one of his volumes on the tantras. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Wed Oct 20 09:27:23 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 10 04:27:23 -0500 Subject: correction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090568.23782.7378856123812437492.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 578 Lines: 20 In my recent posting on 37 I was subject to an error of memory (thanks to Jonathan Silk for discretely pointing it out to me). The group of Buddhas of contrition according to the Triskandhakasuutra numbers 35, not 37, and it was this that Wayman sought to explain. 37 is nevertheless numerologically important in Buddhism: it is the number of the bodhipak.sadharma-s, the "factors allied with awakening." Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Wed Oct 20 05:07:26 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 10 10:37:26 +0530 Subject: Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Post-Scriptum [=wishful thinking] (Re: What about thirty-seven? [why is it UNEQUAL to 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9] (Re: [INDOLOGY] eighteen Message-ID: <161227090562.23782.1712150511773542789.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7346 Lines: 159 --- On Wed, 20/10/10, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Post-Scriptum [=wishful thinking] (Re: What about thirty-seven? [why is it UNEQUAL to 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9] (Re: [INDOLOGY] eighteen To: "Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD" Date: Wednesday, 20 October, 2010, 5:04 AM Dear Professor Chevillard, Of course you are rightt in both postings. No rigid framework was claimed by me. That is dangerous in mythological enquiry. Moreover, to the proponents the original number may be real. See Mao-Tse Tung, how he has tried to prove the universality of duality with opposing or complementing components. And Gonda - in his zeal to disprove Dumezil's idea of the reflection of social reality he saw triads as universal and self existent. They work in fields where these are real and the detached reasearcher cannot penetrate into that. I hope the lecture has not been too long. Best DB --- On Tue, 19/10/10, Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD wrote: From: Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD Subject: [INDOLOGY] Post-Scriptum [=wishful thinking] (Re: What about thirty-seven? [why is it UNEQUAL to 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9] (Re: [INDOLOGY] eighteen To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 19 October, 2010, 6:47 PM Post-Scriptum: Of course, since I personally find the idea that anyone might want to slaughter "Three thousand seven hundred goats" AND/OR "thirty seven buffaloes" UNBEARABLE, I have to make the assumption that MY HIDDEN INTENTION in making this post is to prove that the mistake in the addition (/id est/ the fact that 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9 and 37 are NOT EQUAL) definitely PROVES that such sacrifices never took place (otherwise they would have noticed that there was a mistake in the addition). But unfortunately, I know that this is just wishful thinking :-(( -- jlc On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 19:44:41 +0200 "Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD" wrote: > Dear Professor Dipak Bhattacharya, > It is true that 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8 = 36 > and that 36+1 = 37. > A historical shift (from 8 to 9) might indeed be an explanation. > Of course it is explaining obscure things by making use of obscure things, but such is life for indologists ;-) > There are domains in which pretty much everything is obscure. > Just in case a few of the members on this list are not terrified by arithmetics (I am not! :-)) and since this list now allows attachments, please find attached to this message an image which is scanned from a page inside /The Book of Numbers/ [1996](by Conway and Guy) which I mentioned earlier). > Best wishes to all > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Pondicherry) > On 19/10/2010 22:11, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: >> --- On Tue, 19/10/10, Dipak Bhattacharya? wrote: >> From: Dipak Bhattacharya >> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] What about thirty-seven? [why is it UNEQUAL to 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9] (Re: [INDOLOGY] eighteen >> To: "Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD" >> Date: Tuesday, 19 October, 2010, 4:40 PM >> The origin of mythological numbers may lie in the same urge to aver completeness/fullness but post-substratum ramifications may be caused by various and apparently unrelated causes. One possibility might lie in the addition of 1 (Gonda Triads) by way of adding greater weight. 36 is the original number conceived somewhere and sometime as a basic number of completeness got by increasing by 1 from 1 up to 8. 37 is just greater.? The cakras are 7 in the ??kta tantras but are termed ?a?cakra - the original appellation in the Buddhist tantras where they are actually six in number (D.Bh.1979) to which 1 is added in the ??kta tantras. The retained appellation shows the origin. >> Best >> DB >> --- On Tue, 19/10/10, Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD? wrote: >> From: Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD >> Subject: [INDOLOGY] What about thirty-seven? [why is it UNEQUAL to 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9] (Re: [INDOLOGY] eighteen >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Date: Tuesday, 19 October, 2010, 4:05 PM >> Since a number of people on this list seem ready to provide pieces of information concerning numbers, I wonder whether today might not be the right/auspicious occasion for finding an answer to a question which I have had for some time. >> While going through the 2008 volume >> (/Genesis and Development of Tantrism/) >> edited by Shingo EINOO >> my eye was caught by the first words inside >> footnote 575 >> [which is on the page 247 of that volume] >> inside the article by professor A. Sanderson, >> because they are connected with a number (= "37") >> in which I have been >> interested for quite some time. >> The footnote reads: >> >> "Three thousand seven hundred goats and thirty seven buffalos were to >> be sacrificed: >> a hundred goats and one buffalo on the first day, >> two hundred goats and two buffaloes on the second day, >> three hundred goats and three buffaloes on the third day, >> and so on, so that >> nine hundred goats and nine buffaloes were sacrificed on the ninth day >> (Mah?navam?). ..." >> >> The problem is, however, >> that 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9 = 45 (and not 37) >> Could it be that this source is based on two contradictory sources, >> which it tries to reconcile? >> (this would explain why the calculation is incorrect) >> I have been intrigued by number 37 >> ever since I read in the 1967 book, /The Interior Landscape/, >> by A.K. Ramanujan, >> commenting on the duration of the "three [Tamil] Sangams" >> [namely 4,440, 3,700 and 1850 years] >> that: >> >> ** It has been pointed out that these numbers are suspiciously regular >> multiples of 37; >> the Jains had a passion for numbers. >> >> Does anyone have an explanation for the discrepancy >> which is found in the text reproduced inside Professor Sanderson's footnote? (and [as a QUESTION SUBSIDIAIRE] for the duration of the Tamil Sangams) >> Best wishes >> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Pondicherry) >> P.S. A few people might find it suggestive >> that according to page 41 inside a 1996 book >> by? John H. Conway&? Richard K. Guy >> (/The book of numbers/, ISBN 0-387-97993-X), >> the number 37 is the 4th "Hex Number". >> On 19/10/2010 02:27, Herman Tull wrote: >>> I apologize if this question is a terribly ignorant one, but I was wondering if there is any scholarly literature or any discussion of the significance of the Indic "18" (dominant in the Mahabharata--books, days of war, etc., etc., and then reiterated in the Puranas in the so-called "major" and "minor" books denotation). This has long seemed to me to be some sort of convenient fiction used to tie up loose ends (not unlike the twelve disciples of Jesus recalling the twelve tribes of Israel). However, as I sat in an introductory Buddhism lecture today, and was reminded about the famed 18 schools of the Mahasanghika(s), I started to think, there might be a bit more (or, perhaps no more at all). Thanks. > >>> >>> Herman Tull >>> -------------------------------------------------- >> [...] From tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU Wed Oct 20 15:42:05 2010 From: tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU (Gary Tubb) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 10 10:42:05 -0500 Subject: Hindi position at University of Chicago Message-ID: <161227090573.23782.7054623948332793627.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 456 Lines: 16 Attached is the posting for a tenure-track opening in Hindi at the University of Chicago. -- Gary Tubb, Professor Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations The University of Chicago -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Hindiad.doc Type: application/msword Size: 22528 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU Wed Oct 20 15:43:06 2010 From: tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU (Gary Tubb) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 10 10:43:06 -0500 Subject: Tamil position at the University of Chicago Message-ID: <161227090576.23782.5974512663441970684.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 453 Lines: 16 Attached is the posting for a full-time opening in Tamil at the University of Chicago. -- Gary Tubb, Professor Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations The University of Chicago -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Tamilad.doc Type: application/msword Size: 31744 bytes Desc: not available URL: From e.ciurtin at GMAIL.COM Wed Oct 20 13:43:51 2010 From: e.ciurtin at GMAIL.COM (Eugen Ciurtin) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 10 16:43:51 +0300 Subject: eighteen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090570.23782.4479123220420314174.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2380 Lines: 85 Dear Professor Tull, Another recent contribution on 1(0)8 (in MBh) was offered by San Sarin, and is available online: http://www.indologica.it/volumi/doc_XXX/19_Sarin.pdf kind regards E. Ciurtin 2010/10/18 Herman Tull > I apologize if this question is a terribly ignorant one, but I was > wondering if there is any scholarly literature or any discussion of the > significance of the Indic "18" (dominant in the Mahabharata--books, days of > war, etc., etc., and then reiterated in the Puranas in the so-called "major" > and "minor" books denotation). This has long seemed to me to be some sort > of convenient fiction used to tie up loose ends (not unlike the twelve > disciples of Jesus recalling the twelve tribes of Israel). However, as I > sat in an introductory Buddhism lecture today, and was reminded about the > famed 18 schools of the Mahasanghika(s), I started to think, there might be > a bit more (or, perhaps no more at all). Thanks. > > Herman Tull > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "McComas Taylor" > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 8:22 PM > To: > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Student project:Abhij??na?akuntalam > > Dear Colleague >> >> Two fine 3rd year students at the ANU have produced a wonderful >> stop-animation of a snippet of Abhij??na?akuntalam >> >> Please see: >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2yHWMS62O0 >> >> I am sure they would love to hear from you: >> >> Annie McCarthy >> >> and >> >> Patrick McCartney >> >> Yours >> >> McComas Taylor >> >> >> -- >> =============================== >> Dr McComas Taylor >> Head, South Asia Program >> College of Asia and the Pacific >> The Australian National University >> ACTON ACT 0200 >> >> Tel: +61 2 6125 3179 >> Fax: +61 2 6125 8326 >> >> Email: mccomas.taylor at anu.edu.au >> http://tinyurl.com/38cj94n >> Location: Room E4.24 Baldessin Precinct Building >> > -- Dr E. Ciurtin Secretary of the Romanian Association for the History of Religions Publications Officer of the European Association for the Study of Religions www.easr.eu Lecturer & Secretary of the Scientific Council Institute for the History of Religions, Romanian Academy Calea 13 Septembrie no. 13 sect. 5, Bucharest 050711 Phone: 00 40 733 951 953 From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Wed Oct 20 17:10:26 2010 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 10 19:10:26 +0200 Subject: NS? (Re: [INDOLOGY] What about thirty-seven? Message-ID: <161227090579.23782.3731504569289364318.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1364 Lines: 46 Dear Matthew Kapstein, thanks for your comment (and thanks for forwarding Jonathan Silk's comment) Adding one more brain-storming style question, I would be interested in hearing from you or from others about the logic hidden behind the division of the /Nātyaśāstra/ into 36 chapters or into 37 chapters. Is it known who preferred having 36 chapters and who preferred having 37? Did the preferrence have anything to do with the religion of the "editor/transmitter"? Sorry if all these questions appear idle but I believe that in some contexts the only way to (discreetly) "make a statement" was to chose a different number :-) -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (planet Earth) On 20/10/2010 14:57, mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU wrote: > In my recent posting on 37 I was subject to > an error of memory (thanks to Jonathan Silk for > discretely pointing it out to me). The group > of Buddhas of contrition according to the > Triskandhakasuutra numbers 35, not 37, and it > was this that Wayman sought to explain. > > 37 is nevertheless numerologically important > in Buddhism: it is the number of the > bodhipak.sadharma-s, the "factors allied with > awakening." > > Matthew T. Kapstein > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies > The University of Chicago Divinity School > Directeur d'?tudes > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Oct 20 19:19:07 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 10 21:19:07 +0200 Subject: INDOLOGY and SARIT server migration Message-ID: <161227090581.23782.17189008966193449919.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 714 Lines: 18 The server on which the INDOLOGY.info website is hosted (along with BOMBAY.indology.info, SARIT.indology.info, FAQ.indology.info, etc.) will be changing next week. We're moving from a hosting company in California to one in Austria that offers some advantages. The change will be made at 11am Central European Time, on Wednesday 27th October. If all goes well, the change will not be noticeable. There will be no change in the public addresses (indology.info etc.). The change has no connection with this INDOLOGY discussion forum (which continues to be generously hosted by Liverpool University). However, it seems wise to give notice, in case of the unforeseen. Best, Dominik Wujastyk SARIT, INDOLOGY. From hwtull at MSN.COM Thu Oct 21 10:39:15 2010 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 10 06:39:15 -0400 Subject: eighteen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090587.23782.7288632936412912006.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 230 Lines: 8 Thanks to all those who responded to my query regarding "18." Once again, I stand in awe of the collective wisdom of the list members, and the kindness of strangers in taking the time to share their knowledge. Herman Tull From Greg.Bailey at LATROBE.EDU.AU Thu Oct 21 04:46:40 2010 From: Greg.Bailey at LATROBE.EDU.AU (Gregory Bailey) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 10 15:46:40 +1100 Subject: Artistic Symbols in eighteenth century Maratha Culture Message-ID: <161227090584.23782.11323389929119410459.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2609 Lines: 59 Dear All, Can anybody suggest some directions pertaining to the e-mail included below? Thanks, Greg Bailey Hello, I am hoping that you can help me - I am researching for a film that depicts Maratha people and places in 1778. We are shooting in Australia and would like to do all we can to be accurate in our depiction. I have noticed on Trove that you have a few books in your library that are relevant to this - these books are not available anywhere else I thought perhaps you had a subject in it? IE:- Maratha confederacy : a study in its origin and development / V.S. Kadam I am looking for 18th Century Maharashtra / Marathi specific:- - Heraldry / Royal symbols of the different clans within the Marathi people of circa 1778? I have found that many clans used the "Nishan" - insignia - of :- Rudra - Shiva :- Sun :- Moon :- Ganapati - Ganesh :- Trishul - Trident :- Hanuman - Hindu Deity :- Serpent but have not been able to find any images of these - are you able to let me know what they would have looked like around 1778 - or do you have any paintings of them or photographs of any surviving insignia from the time? Also do you know if the court of the Peshwar used the same insignia as the court of the Raja or were they different? Other more general research is:- - Symbolism in art - ie deities, sun, moon, etc animals such as the tiger or the peacock etc - which animals were depicted and why? - Sculptures - religious or of the rulers of the time? - Paintings - Architecture - temples / palaces / buildings - Patterns - textiles - clothing - flags - Court Regalia - banners, colours, patterns, objects, etc - Other Objects - Jali Screen patterns - which shapes where used? In the script we see 2 great courts / palaces and also the huts and dwellings of some poorer people. I am wondering how the Maratha symbolism differed from other Hindu symbolism of the time? I would be most appreciative if you could offer me any advice or assistance or let me know the best place to go or person to ask. Do you know of any online resources that I can download pictures from? Or articles that elaborate on the symbolism? Or any books that I may be able to find in Australia? I have found many books on Hindu Art and Architecture - but none specifically show if they were 18th Century Maratha / Maharashtra. Much thanks for your time, I apologies for rushing you as I am sure that you are very busy - but we are shooting very soon and so I would really appreciate any advice that you have as soon as possible! From d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK Thu Oct 21 15:59:46 2010 From: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 10 17:59:46 +0200 Subject: Ancient Script In-Reply-To: <225318.60582.qm@web45409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227090590.23782.1217016061625885182.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 972 Lines: 32 Forwarded message. Replies CC'ed to rahula_80 at yahoo.com please (and the list, if you wish). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 21 October 2010 15:32, Ngawang Dorje wrote: > Hi, > > I wanted to ask the experts in the Indology discussion group, but I am not > a member. I wonder if you could help me. > > Thanks, > Rahula > > ---------- > > I would be very grateful if you could transcript and translate the document > that is attached with this email. It is from a rock inscription dated 5th > century AD, found in Penang, Malaysia (if you could read the script). Can > you also let me know if it's Pali or Sanskrit? > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 72a.png Type: image/png Size: 37961 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mccomas.taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Fri Oct 22 02:00:19 2010 From: mccomas.taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 10 13:00:19 +1100 Subject: Another wonderful Sanskrit Project from students of Sydney University and ANU Message-ID: <161227090593.23782.1400975581668422698.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 740 Lines: 39 Dear Colleagues Please have a look at this wonderful recital of the Prologue of Abhijn?a?nas?akuntalam by two 3rd year Sanskrit students: Lucinda Strauss kaivalya at bigpond.net.au Jarrah Sastrawan jarrah_sastrawan at hotmail.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBY08LvkmNU&feature=player_embedded I am sure that they would love to hear back from you . Please feel free to email them off-group Yours McComas -- =============================== Dr McComas Taylor Head, South Asia Program College of Asia and the Pacific The Australian National University ACTON ACT 0200 Tel: +61 2 6125 3179 Fax: +61 2 6125 8326 Email: mccomas.taylor at anu.edu.au http://tinyurl.com/38cj94n Location: Room E4.24 Baldessin Precinct Building From jemhouben at GMAIL.COM Fri Oct 22 16:08:05 2010 From: jemhouben at GMAIL.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 10 18:08:05 +0200 Subject: new issue of eJIM Message-ID: <161227090596.23782.12645156162001000163.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 676 Lines: 46 Dear Indologists eJIM, the eJournal of Indian Medicine, has just published its latest issue at http://www.indianmedicine.nl. We invite you to review the Table of Contents here and then visit our web site to review articles and items of interest. eJIM is a free journal, and currently has about 625 registered readers. eJIM - eJournal of Indian Medicine Vol 3, No 2 (2010) Table of Contents Articles The Encounter of Medical Traditions in N?r al-D?n ??r?z??s ?Il?j?t-i D?r? ?ik?h? (53-67) Fabrizio Speziale Citations in Jajja?a?s Nirantarapadavy?khy? (69-99) Kenneth Zysk Regards, Roelf Barkhuis Publisher of eJIM From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Oct 22 19:57:14 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 10 21:57:14 +0200 Subject: NCC gets fresh funding Message-ID: <161227090599.23782.325236376585874953.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 65 Lines: 4 http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Chennai/article841150.ece From dimitrov at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE Sun Oct 24 15:53:15 2010 From: dimitrov at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE (Dragomir Dimitrov) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 10 17:53:15 +0200 Subject: NEW BOOK: Indologie im Umbruch Message-ID: <161227090601.23782.4245762930074663971.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2052 Lines: 66 NEW BOOK ANNOUNCEMENT Indologie im Umbruch Zur Geschichte des Faches in Marburg 1845?1945 Antrittsvorlesung von J?rgen Hanneder M?nchen 2010 Indologica Marpurgensia, vol. I P. Kirchheim Verlag paperback, 89 pp. ISBN: 978-3-87410-140-0 Price: EUR 24,95 SUMMARY (in German) Viele der kleinen Indologien in Deutschland waren wissenschaftliche Schwergewichte, welche die internationale Forschungslandschaft dominierten. Mit den idealen Betreuungsverh?ltnissen von ?Elite- Universit?ten?, welche geringe Studentenzahlen erm?glichen, konnten sie die n?chste Forschergeneration ausbilden, die enorme Fortschritte in der Erforschung der Geschichte des indischen Kulturraumes erzielten. Dennoch mussten sie immer wieder um die Besetzung der meist einzigen Stelle in einem Institut bangen und sich f?r die kleine Zahl von Studenten oder ihr vermeintlich unbedeutendes, ineffektives Fach rechtfertigen ? daran hat sich bis heute nichts ge?ndert. Indologie im Umbruch: Zur Geschichte des Faches in Marburg 1845?1945 erz?hlt die Geschichte eines dieser Standorte von seiner Gr?ndung im Jahre 1845 bis zum Ende des Zweiten Weltkriegs, jedoch mit einem kleinen Ausblick auf j?ngere Entwicklungen. Besonders ber?cksichtigt wird dabei die Entwicklung der Indologie und ihre Inanspruchnahme f?r ideologische Zwecke im Nationalsozialismus. CONTENTS Ein Loch in der Zeit. 7 Wozu indische Philologie? 9 Johannes Gildemeister. 17 Ferdinand Justi und Albert Thumb. 23 Karl Friedrich Geldner. 27 Hanns Oertel und Jacob Wilhelm Hauer. 37 Die Indologie im Nationalsozialismus. 43 Johannes Nobel. 63 Anhang. 73 For more details please see here: http://www.uni-marburg.de/fb10/iksl/indologie/fachgebiet/im ________________________________________ Dr. Dragomir Dimitrov Indologie und Tibetologie Philipps-Universit?t Marburg Deutschhausstr. 12 35032 Marburg Germany Tel.: +49 6421 28 24640, +49 178 9190340 E-mail: dimitrov at staff.uni-marburg.de http://www.uni-marburg.de/indologie ________________________________________ From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Mon Oct 25 11:41:37 2010 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 10 06:41:37 -0500 Subject: Trade in Medieval Sanskrit Literature Message-ID: <161227090612.23782.3343959451803926182.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 452 Lines: 8 Friends: A colleague without access to Indology and working on trade in India 600 CE onward asks whether there is any Sanskrit textual material that would be useful to her. I think there is some material in the Katha literature -- Pancatantra, Kathasaritsagara, Hitopadesa etc. She also wants to know whether there is any secondary literature dealing with this aspect of the Katha literature. Any help would be deeply appreciated. Thanks. Patrick From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA Mon Oct 25 12:08:48 2010 From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 10 08:08:48 -0400 Subject: Trade in Medieval Sanskrit Literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090617.23782.2247737479030184180.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 922 Lines: 30 Dear Patrick, This is a bit on the side, but there's an article by V.S. Agrawala about a ritual at a well preceding sea voyages for trading purposes in Agrawala, V.S.: ?The Seven-Sea Gift in the Matsya Purana? in Purana . Bulletin of the Purana Department. All India Kashiraja Trust,Vol. 1, No. 2 Feb. 1960, pp. 206-212. Best Stella -- Stella Sandahl ssandahl at sympatico.ca On 25-Oct-10, at 7:41 AM, Patrick Olivelle wrote: > Friends: > > A colleague without access to Indology and working on trade in > India 600 CE onward asks whether there is any Sanskrit textual > material that would be useful to her. I think there is some > material in the Katha literature -- Pancatantra, Kathasaritsagara, > Hitopadesa etc. She also wants to know whether there is any > secondary literature dealing with this aspect of the Katha > literature. Any help would be deeply appreciated. Thanks. > > Patrick From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Oct 25 13:14:29 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 10 08:14:29 -0500 Subject: Trade in Medieval Sanskrit Literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090619.23782.2566629467306101432.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 764 Lines: 26 Dear Patrick, There's lots scattered around Buddhist sources, very often in Jaataka-s, Avadaana-s, and Mahaayaana suutras such as the Ga.n.davyuuha, where traders figure prominently. As I recall, Geiger's Culture of Ceylon in Mediaeval Times has useful references to the Pali sources on this. I don't know of anything off hand that puts together the Buddhist Sanskrit references to material culture very effectively (does someone want to encourage a great project for a dissertation?) And of course the two great Tamil novels also have much to say of merchants and trade. best, Matthew Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From rdavidson at FAIRFIELD.EDU Mon Oct 25 13:23:59 2010 From: rdavidson at FAIRFIELD.EDU (Ronald Davidson) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 10 09:23:59 -0400 Subject: Trade in Medieval Sanskrit Literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090622.23782.4785980994631348213.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1160 Lines: 27 Patrick, Not on Sanskrit literature per se, but a valuable short study of the Samaraichchakah? is Thakur, Vijay Kumar and Jha, Kalpana. 1994. ?Towns and Traide in the Samaraichchakah?: Text and Context.? In N.N. Bhattacharyya, ed. Jainism and Prakrit in Ancient and Medieval India: Essays for Prof. Jagdish Chandra Jain. New Delhi: Manohar Publishers. Pp. 295-324. Both Vijay Thakur and Kalpana Jha have produced subsequent works on early medieval trade, including Jha's Urbanisation in early medieval north India : an analysis of the Samaraichchakaha / Kalpana Jha ; with an introduction by Vijay Kumar Thakur. Patna : Janaki Prakashan, 1990. Siefgried Lienhard's "Avalokite?vara in the Wick of the Night-Lamp," Indo-Iranian Journal 36 (1933): 93-104 is about the S?rthav?ha story in the K?ra??avy?ha, and Himanshu Ray's 1994 Winds of Change: Buddhism and the Maritime Links of Early South Asia (Delhi: OUP) certainly provides many references to Buddhist literature. The more recent histories of R.S. Sharma, especially his Early medieval Indian society : a study in feudalisation, Hyderabad: Orient Longman, 2001, are of some assistance. Best, Ron From w.t.douglas at ABDN.AC.UK Mon Oct 25 13:35:18 2010 From: w.t.douglas at ABDN.AC.UK (Dr. Will Tuladhar-Douglas) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 10 09:35:18 -0400 Subject: Trade in Medieval Sanskrit Literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090625.23782.17981233117563654529.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2763 Lines: 36 As others, quicker on the keyboard have already said, combing Buddhist narrative literature (j?taka, avad?na, mah?tmya) will yield troves of useful information about specific commodities, trade routes, and commercial practices and institutions, though establishing useful dating is a different question. The list of fine fabrics in the Svayambh?pur??a is evidence for medieval Newar commodities. For example, in the fore-story of Sudhana and the Kinnari, when the wicked king seeks a n?ga-hunter there is a nice conversation in which the king offers the ?hitu??aka his fee up front and the n?ga-hunter asks the king instead to put the money into a sack at the top of a tall pole, publicly visible: it's a sort of escrow. Given the early date of this story, though, that practise may or may not still exist by Har?a's time. I think much of this material has been combed over in works on Indian Ocean trade. Ray, H.P., 1994, The Winds of Change: Buddhism and the Maritime Links of Early Southeast Asia, Oxford University Press (India), New Delhi. Liu, X., 1998, Silk and Religion: An exploration of material life and the thought of people, AD 600-1200, Oxford University Press (India), New Delhi. Sen, T., 2003, Buddhism, Diplomacy and Trade, University of Hawai`i Press,. Also, see the invaluable _Golden Peaches of Samarkand_, on Tang commodities. Schafer, R., 1963, The Golden Peaches of Samarkand, University of California, Berkeley. Probably least explored, are the materia medica of ?yurveda. A comparison of the items listed with biogeography (where reliable equivalences can be established between the Sanskrit term and a modern species), will rapidly tell you that a number of medicinal plants and substances (e.g., varieties of salt) were traded over long distances from early times; these trade links continue to be important up the modern day. I'm working on Himalayan materials these days but there must be similar regional literatures and practices all around the Indian Ocean and Central Asia. -WBTD. On 25 Oct 2010, at 07:41, Patrick Olivelle wrote: > Friends: > > A colleague without access to Indology and working on trade in India 600 CE onward asks whether there is any Sanskrit textual material that would be useful to her. I think there is some material in the Katha literature -- Pancatantra, Kathasaritsagara, Hitopadesa etc. She also wants to know whether there is any secondary literature dealing with this aspect of the Katha literature. Any help would be deeply appreciated. Thanks. > > Patrick - - -- --- ----- -------- ------------- Will Tuladhar-Douglas Anthropology of Environment and Religions TLKY Distinguished Visiting Professor in Buddhist Studies, University of Toronto, Scarborough. http://tending.to/garden From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Mon Oct 25 07:36:12 2010 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 10 09:36:12 +0200 Subject: NEW BOOK: Carl Cappeller - Moriz Winternitz - Theodor Zachariae In-Reply-To: <4CC4566B.333.22BDA272@dimitrov.staff.uni-marburg.de> Message-ID: <161227090604.23782.10622841512018372256.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3807 Lines: 118 The vol. 2 of the new series Indologica Marpurgensia looks like also interesting: Carl Cappeller - Moriz Winternitz - Theodor Zachariae Drei Biographien ber?hmter Indologen Von Margot Kraatz und Martin Kraatz M?nchen 2010 Indologica Marpurgensia, Band II P. Kirchheim Verlag Broschur, Fadenheftung, viii, 146 S. ISBN: 978-3-87410-141-7 Preis: EUR 29,80 Inhaltsverzeichnis || Bestellen Die hier erstmals vollst?ndig publizierten Biographien belegen als solche die Kontinuit?t indologischer Forschung und Lehre in Marburg. Sie entstanden als Referate von Studenten in den Jahren 1962-64 unter dem auch fachgeschichtlich interessierten Ordinarius Wilhelm Rau. Von drei dieser ber?hmten Indologen zeichnen sie Leben, Werk, wissenschaftliche Verdienste und heute noch aktuellen Wert nach. Carl Cappeller (1840-1925) haben vor allem seine W?rterb?cher neben den Schriften ?ber indische Kunstdichtung bekannt gemacht. Aus dem riesigen Werk von Moriz Winternitz (1863-1937) ist die immer und auch heute unverzichtbare Geschichte der indischen Litteratur hervorzuheben. Sein Werksverzeichnis umfasst ?ber 50 Jahre reichster Ver?ffentlichungst?tigkeit. Auch Theodor Zachariaes (1851-1934) haupts?chliches Forschungsgebiet ist die Lexikographie. Seine ?bedeutendste Publikation" Die indischen W?rterb?cher erschien 1897 in Band I des Grundri? der Indo-Arischen Philologie und Altertumskunde. http://www.uni-marburg.de/fb10/iksl/indologie/fachgebiet/im >NEW BOOK ANNOUNCEMENT > >Indologie im Umbruch >Zur Geschichte des Faches in Marburg 1845-1945 > >Antrittsvorlesung von J?rgen Hanneder > >M?nchen 2010 >Indologica Marpurgensia, vol. I >P. Kirchheim Verlag >paperback, 89 pp. >ISBN: 978-3-87410-140-0 >Price: EUR 24,95 > > >SUMMARY (in German) > >Viele der kleinen Indologien in Deutschland waren wissenschaftliche >Schwergewichte, welche die internationale Forschungslandschaft >dominierten. Mit den idealen Betreuungsverh?ltnissen von ?Elite- >Universit?ten", welche geringe Studentenzahlen erm?glichen, konnten sie die >n?chste Forschergeneration ausbilden, die enorme Fortschritte in der >Erforschung der Geschichte des indischen Kulturraumes erzielten. Dennoch >mussten sie immer wieder um die Besetzung der meist einzigen Stelle in >einem Institut bangen und sich f?r die kleine Zahl von Studenten oder ihr >vermeintlich unbedeutendes, ineffektives Fach rechtfertigen - daran hat sich >bis heute nichts ge?ndert. Indologie im Umbruch: Zur Geschichte des Faches >in Marburg 1845-1945 erz?hlt die Geschichte eines dieser Standorte von >seiner Gr?ndung im Jahre 1845 bis zum Ende des Zweiten Weltkriegs, jedoch >mit einem kleinen Ausblick auf j?ngere Entwicklungen. Besonders >ber?cksichtigt wird dabei die Entwicklung der Indologie und ihre >Inanspruchnahme f?r ideologische Zwecke im Nationalsozialismus. > > >CONTENTS >Ein Loch in der Zeit. 7 >Wozu indische Philologie? 9 >Johannes Gildemeister. 17 >Ferdinand Justi und Albert Thumb. 23 >Karl Friedrich Geldner. 27 >Hanns Oertel und Jacob Wilhelm Hauer. 37 >Die Indologie im Nationalsozialismus. 43 >Johannes Nobel. 63 >Anhang. 73 > > >For more details please see here: >http://www.uni-marburg.de/fb10/iksl/indologie/fachgebiet/im > > >________________________________________ > > Dr. Dragomir Dimitrov > Indologie und Tibetologie > Philipps-Universit?t Marburg > Deutschhausstr. 12 > 35032 Marburg > Germany > > Tel.: +49 6421 28 24640, +49 178 9190340 > E-mail: dimitrov at staff.uni-marburg.de > http://www.uni-marburg.de/indologie >________________________________________ -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ -- Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of storage free. http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ From dimitrov at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE Mon Oct 25 07:49:24 2010 From: dimitrov at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE (Dragomir Dimitrov) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 10 09:49:24 +0200 Subject: NEW BOOK: Drei Biographien ber=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=BChmter?= Indologen Message-ID: <161227090607.23782.13751129272945810818.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1849 Lines: 61 NEW BOOK ANNOUNCEMENT Carl Cappeller - Moriz Winternitz - Theodor Zachariae Drei Biographien ber?hmter Indologen Von Margot Kraatz und Martin Kraatz M?nchen 2010 Indologica Marpurgensia, vol. II P. Kirchheim Verlag paperback, viii, 146 pp. ISBN: 978-3-87410-141-7 Price: EUR 29,80 SUMMARY (in German) Die hier erstmals vollst?ndig publizierten Biographien belegen als solche die Kontinuit?t indologischer Forschung und Lehre in Marburg. Sie entstanden als Referate von Studenten in den Jahren 1962?64 unter dem auch fachgeschichtlich interessierten Ordinarius Wilhelm Rau. Von drei dieser ber?hmten Indologen zeichnen sie Leben, Werk, wissenschaftliche Verdienste und heute noch aktuellen Wert nach. Carl Cappeller (1840?1925) haben vor allem seine W?rterb?cher neben den Schriften ?ber indische Kunstdichtung bekannt gemacht. Aus dem riesigen Werk von Moriz Winternitz (1863?1937) ist die immer und auch heute unverzichtbare Geschichte der indischen Litteratur hervorzuheben. Sein Werksverzeichnis umfasst ?ber 50 Jahre reichster Ver?ffentlichungst?tigkeit. Auch Theodor Zachariaes (1851?1934) haupts?chliches Forschungsgebiet ist die Lexikographie. Seine ?bedeutendste Publikation? Die indischen W?rterb?cher erschien 1897 in Band I des Grundri? der Indo-Arischen Philologie und Altertumskunde. CONTENTS Vorwort. VII Carl Cappeller. 1 Moriz Winternitz. 35 Theodor Zachariae. 101 For more details please see here: http://www.uni-marburg.de/fb10/iksl/indologie/fachgebiet/im ________________________________________ Dr. Dragomir Dimitrov Indologie und Tibetologie Philipps-Universit?t Marburg Deutschhausstr. 12 35032 Marburg Germany Tel.: +49 6421 28 24640, +49 178 9190340 E-mail: dimitrov at staff.uni-marburg.de http://www.uni-marburg.de/indologie ________________________________________ From jneelis at WLU.CA Mon Oct 25 15:08:17 2010 From: jneelis at WLU.CA (Jason Neelis) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 10 11:08:17 -0400 Subject: Trade in Medieval Sanskrit Literature Message-ID: <161227090627.23782.5202370678209447194.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1582 Lines: 32 Dear Indologists, My forthcoming book (expected to appear late next month - with apologies for self-promotion) examines Indian Buddhist literary sources, inscriptions, and archaeological materials which illustrate links between long-distance trade and institutional expansion: Early Buddhist Transmission and Trade Networks: Mobility and Exchange within and beyond the Northwestern Borderlands of South Asia. Dynamics in the History of Religions, vol. 2. Brill, Leiden; Boston. In addition to narratives referred to by other contributors to the discussion, vinaya literature (particularly the P?cittiyavagga of the P?li vinaya and the M?lasarv?stiv?da-vinaya) is a rich source for references to merchants involved in trading activities. Regards, Jason Neelis Religion and Culture Wilfrid Laurier University Waterloo, Ontario N2L 3C5 On 25 Oct 2010, at 07:41, Patrick Olivelle wrote: > Friends: > > A colleague without access to Indology and working on trade in India 600 CE onward asks whether there is any Sanskrit textual material that would be useful to her. I think there is some material in the Katha literature -- Pancatantra, Kathasaritsagara, Hitopadesa etc. She also wants to know whether there is any secondary literature dealing with this aspect of the Katha literature. Any help would be deeply appreciated. Thanks. > > Patrick - - -- --- ----- -------- ------------- Will Tuladhar-Douglas Anthropology of Environment and Religions TLKY Distinguished Visiting Professor in Buddhist Studies, University of Toronto, Scarborough. http://tending.to/garden From klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI Mon Oct 25 11:56:54 2010 From: klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI (Klaus Karttunen) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 10 14:56:54 +0300 Subject: Trade in Medieval Sanskrit Literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090614.23782.14186361961915026649.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 955 Lines: 25 Patrick, especially Kathasaritsagara is important, but also Buddhist narratives (Jataka, Divyavadana) are interesting in this respect and some Jaina texts, too, I think. Klaus Karttunen Professor of South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674 Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094 Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi On Oct 25, 2010, at 2:41 PM, Patrick Olivelle wrote: > Friends: > > A colleague without access to Indology and working on trade in India 600 CE onward asks whether there is any Sanskrit textual material that would be useful to her. I think there is some material in the Katha literature -- Pancatantra, Kathasaritsagara, Hitopadesa etc. She also wants to know whether there is any secondary literature dealing with this aspect of the Katha literature. Any help would be deeply appreciated. Thanks. > > Patrick From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Mon Oct 25 11:39:43 2010 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 10 17:09:43 +0530 Subject: Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] NEW BOOK: Carl Cappeller - Moriz Winternitz - Theodor Zachariae Message-ID: <161227090610.23782.15602800765003701878.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4649 Lines: 148 --- On Mon, 25/10/10, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] NEW BOOK: Carl Cappeller - Moriz Winternitz - Theodor Zachariae Date: Monday, 25 October, 2010, 11:37 AM The mail below sent to the :List?was received a second time from Dragomir Dimitrov. Another privately sent?mail too was received also from Dragomir Dimitrov. Yahoo relegated those two to the Spam folder! ?Something experienced by others too? Best DB --- On Mon, 25/10/10, Christophe Vielle wrote: From: Christophe Vielle Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] NEW BOOK: Carl Cappeller - Moriz Winternitz - Theodor Zachariae To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 25 October, 2010, 7:36 AM The vol. 2 of the new series Indologica Marpurgensia looks like also interesting: Carl Cappeller - Moriz Winternitz - Theodor Zachariae Drei Biographien ber?hmter Indologen Von Margot Kraatz und Martin Kraatz M?nchen 2010 Indologica Marpurgensia, Band II P. Kirchheim Verlag Broschur, Fadenheftung, viii, 146 S. ISBN: 978-3-87410-141-7 Preis: EUR 29,80 Inhaltsverzeichnis || Bestellen Die hier erstmals vollst?ndig publizierten Biographien belegen als solche die Kontinuit?t indologischer Forschung und Lehre in Marburg. Sie entstanden als Referate von Studenten in den Jahren 1962-64 unter dem auch fachgeschichtlich interessierten Ordinarius Wilhelm Rau. Von drei dieser ber?hmten Indologen zeichnen sie Leben, Werk, wissenschaftliche Verdienste und heute noch aktuellen Wert nach. Carl Cappeller (1840-1925) haben vor allem seine W?rterb?cher neben den Schriften ?ber indische Kunstdichtung bekannt gemacht. Aus dem riesigen Werk von Moriz Winternitz (1863-1937) ist die immer und auch heute unverzichtbare Geschichte der indischen Litteratur hervorzuheben. Sein Werksverzeichnis umfasst ?ber 50 Jahre reichster Ver?ffentlichungst?tigkeit. Auch Theodor Zachariaes (1851-1934) haupts?chliches Forschungsgebiet ist die Lexikographie. Seine ?bedeutendste Publikation" Die indischen W?rterb?cher erschien 1897 in Band I des Grundri? der Indo-Arischen Philologie und Altertumskunde. http://www.uni-marburg.de/fb10/iksl/indologie/fachgebiet/im >NEW BOOK ANNOUNCEMENT > >Indologie im Umbruch >Zur Geschichte des Faches in Marburg 1845-1945 > >Antrittsvorlesung von J?rgen Hanneder > >M?nchen 2010 >Indologica Marpurgensia, vol. I >P. Kirchheim Verlag >paperback, 89 pp. >ISBN: 978-3-87410-140-0 >Price: EUR 24,95 > > >SUMMARY (in German) > >Viele der kleinen Indologien in Deutschland waren wissenschaftliche >Schwergewichte, welche die internationale Forschungslandschaft >dominierten. Mit den idealen Betreuungsverh?ltnissen von ?Elite- >Universit?ten", welche geringe Studentenzahlen erm?glichen, konnten sie die >n?chste Forschergeneration ausbilden, die enorme Fortschritte in der >Erforschung der Geschichte des indischen Kulturraumes erzielten. Dennoch >mussten sie immer wieder um die Besetzung der meist einzigen Stelle in >einem Institut bangen und sich f?r die kleine Zahl von Studenten oder ihr >vermeintlich unbedeutendes, ineffektives Fach rechtfertigen - daran hat sich >bis heute nichts ge?ndert. Indologie im Umbruch: Zur Geschichte des Faches >in Marburg 1845-1945 erz?hlt die Geschichte eines dieser Standorte von >seiner Gr?ndung im Jahre 1845 bis zum Ende des Zweiten Weltkriegs, jedoch >mit einem kleinen Ausblick auf j?ngere Entwicklungen. Besonders >ber?cksichtigt wird dabei die Entwicklung der Indologie und ihre >Inanspruchnahme f?r ideologische Zwecke im Nationalsozialismus. > > >CONTENTS >Ein Loch in der Zeit. 7 >Wozu indische Philologie? 9 >Johannes Gildemeister. 17 >Ferdinand Justi und Albert Thumb. 23 >Karl Friedrich Geldner. 27 >Hanns Oertel und Jacob Wilhelm Hauer. 37 >Die Indologie im Nationalsozialismus. 43 >Johannes Nobel. 63 >Anhang. 73 > > >For more details please see here: >http://www.uni-marburg.de/fb10/iksl/indologie/fachgebiet/im > > >________________________________________ > >? ? Dr. Dragomir Dimitrov >? ? Indologie und Tibetologie >? ? Philipps-Universit?t Marburg >? ? Deutschhausstr. 12 >? ? 35032 Marburg >? ? Germany > >? ? Tel.: +49 6421 28 24640, +49 178 9190340 >? ? E-mail: dimitrov at staff.uni-marburg.de >? ? http://www.uni-marburg.de/indologie >________________________________________ -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ -- Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of storage free. http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ From franceschini.marco at FASTWEBNET.IT Mon Oct 25 15:15:40 2010 From: franceschini.marco at FASTWEBNET.IT (Marco Franceschini) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 10 17:15:40 +0200 Subject: Publication announcement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090630.23782.996417392153560574.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 608 Lines: 28 Dear list members, I'm very pleased to announce the publication of my book (in Italian): Buddhaghosa, Padyacudamani (Il diadema dei versi), a cura di Marco Franceschini, Milano, Edizioni Ariele, 2010. Pp. 350, ISBN 978-88-86480-95-6, EUR 26,00. Contents: 1. Introduzione 2. Traduzione e note 3. Testo sanscrito e apparato critico For orders write to: edizioni.ariele at tin.it Best wishes, Marco Franceschini PhD, Research Fellow University of Bologna Department of Linguistics and Oriental Studies via Zamboni 33 - 40126 Bologna, Italy Tel: +39 051 2098473 Email: marco.franceschini3 at unibo.it From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Mon Oct 25 16:26:38 2010 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 10 18:26:38 +0200 Subject: GRETIL update #379 Message-ID: <161227090632.23782.14788532744242765852.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 677 Lines: 28 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Jayatirtha: Nyayasudha, Adhyaya 3 completed (Padas 1-4) Jyotsnika __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Oct 27 11:17:13 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 10 13:17:13 +0200 Subject: INDOLOGY and SARIT server migration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090638.23782.2657573886861608403.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2202 Lines: 56 The migration of the INDOLOGY.info website, and subdomains, from California to Vienna took place a couple of hours ago, and there have been no problems so far. We have taken the opportunity to upgrade the Philologic sofware that runs the SARIT.indology.info service. Most changes will be invisible (details here ). One cosmetic, but still nice change is that the normal search results are displayed in proportional font, while the KWIC results are displayed in a fixed-width font. This means that the columns line up properly, and the KWIC display makes immediate sense, visually. See attached screenshots. Many thanks to Patrick Mc Allister, for his technical assistance in making this transition successful. Best wishes, Dominik Wujastyk Committee member, SARIT, INDOLOGY On 20 October 2010 21:19, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > The server on which the INDOLOGY.info website is hosted (along with > BOMBAY.indology.info, SARIT.indology.info, FAQ.indology.info, etc.) will > be changing next week. We're moving from a hosting company in California to > one in Austria that offers some advantages. The change will be made at 11am > Central European Time, on Wednesday 27th October. > > If all goes well, the change will not be noticeable. There will be no > change in the public addresses (indology.info etc.). The change has no > connection with this INDOLOGY discussion forum (which continues to be > generously hosted by Liverpool University). However, it seems wise to give > notice, in case of the unforeseen. > > Best, > Dominik Wujastyk > SARIT, INDOLOGY. > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: sarit-search.png Type: image/png Size: 146304 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: sarit-kwic.png Type: image/png Size: 160312 bytes Desc: not available URL: From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Wed Oct 27 21:11:35 2010 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 10 17:11:35 -0400 Subject: Gita in Maltese Message-ID: <161227090643.23782.17028924859683677158.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1154 Lines: 39 Dear All, As my friends in Malta tell me: you will be pleased to hear that the Gita has now also been translated into Maltese, and that into Malti safi "pure Maltese". As many will know, Maltese is a European language derived from Arabic, but due the history of the islands, is has heavily been influenced by Italian and English. The translation by the scholar and poet Michael Zammit studiously avoids such loan words. While it may be beyond most Indologists to understand Arabic and thus Maltese, I recommend to take a listen to the website. Each of the 18 chapters is preceded by about 1/3 of commentary --- and that can be followed due to the many Italian loans. In the early 1980s our colleague W. Callewaert counted 1900 translations of the Gita. How many by now? Cheers, M. WItzel ============ Michael Witzel witzel at fas.harvard.edu Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University 1 Bow Street, Cambridge MA 02138, USA phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; my direct line: 617- 496 2990 From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Thu Oct 28 08:11:13 2010 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 10 10:11:13 +0200 Subject: Purana/All-India Kashiraj Trust In-Reply-To: <8B1256A9-7E50-436E-9455-1396CBB9ABD8@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227090648.23782.11505333795576985228.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 685 Lines: 18 Am 28.10.2010 03:57, schrieb Will Sweetman: > Our serials librarian has asked me to find out whether the All-India Kashiraj Trust is still actively publishing Purana, which our library has not received since 2004. I'd be grateful for any information about the series, or an email address or other recent contact information for the publishers. The last issue in our library is: Vol. 49, Nos. 1-2 [combined], 2007. The only contact address I see is that of the main editor, R. K. Sharma (i.e. R?mkara? ?arm?) printed on the back of the cover. Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 D-53113 Bonn From athr at LOC.GOV Thu Oct 28 17:58:32 2010 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 10 13:58:32 -0400 Subject: Purana/All-India Kashiraj Trust In-Reply-To: <4CC93021.6040406@uni-bonn.de> Message-ID: <161227090650.23782.6989459967623191912.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1403 Lines: 38 The last bound vol. in our OPAC is 2005. I have asked the office in New Delhi to tell me if there are more recent issues accumulating for binding, and if we have not been getting it, to enquire why. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Peter Wyzlic Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 4:11 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Purana/All-India Kashiraj Trust Am 28.10.2010 03:57, schrieb Will Sweetman: > Our serials librarian has asked me to find out whether the All-India Kashiraj Trust is still actively publishing Purana, which our library has not received since 2004. I'd be grateful for any information about the series, or an email address or other recent contact information for the publishers. The last issue in our library is: Vol. 49, Nos. 1-2 [combined], 2007. The only contact address I see is that of the main editor, R. K. Sharma (i.e. R?mkara? ?arm?) printed on the back of the cover. Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 D-53113 Bonn From will.sweetman at GMAIL.COM Thu Oct 28 01:57:58 2010 From: will.sweetman at GMAIL.COM (Will Sweetman) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 10 14:57:58 +1300 Subject: Purana/All-India Kashiraj Trust Message-ID: <161227090645.23782.10579670615285164706.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 381 Lines: 13 Our serials librarian has asked me to find out whether the All-India Kashiraj Trust is still actively publishing Purana, which our library has not received since 2004. I'd be grateful for any information about the series, or an email address or other recent contact information for the publishers. Thanks, Will -- Will Sweetman University of Otago will.sweetman at gmail.com From filipsky at RZONE.CZ Fri Oct 29 08:41:12 2010 From: filipsky at RZONE.CZ (=?utf-8?Q?Jan_Filipsk=C3=BD?=) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 10 10:41:12 +0200 Subject: Crows_Ravens in Indian Culture Message-ID: <161227090653.23782.8152642008277776958.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 963 Lines: 25 Dear All, I already addressed this List some time ago in connection with "crow lore" (divination based on observing the flight of crows - vayasavidya) in India / South Asia and gratefully received several valuable inputs. In continuation of my query, I ask any knowledgeable colleague kindly to supply (perhaps off-list) possible textual references to the crow (raven) bearing the secret of the origin of things (being itself created out of the primeval chaos) and the secret of hell (since it dwelt for many aeons in the infernal realms) - see, B. Walker, Hindu World, MRML 1983. Any visual representations of crows in Indian art? Last but not least, there are 3 references to Kr?he (174, 213, 515) in the Index to the W?rterbuch der mittelalterlichen indischen Alchemie by Oliver Hellwig (eJIM Supplement 2), Barkhuis 2009. Could anybody who has easy access to this resource supply (off-list) the respective extracts. With many thanks, Jan Filipsky From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Oct 29 14:26:45 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 10 16:26:45 +0200 Subject: Max Planck institute Message-ID: <161227090656.23782.1449499095333016300.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1049 Lines: 42 ------------- forwarded message ----------------- From: "Anthony T. Grafton" Date: October 28, 2010 9:27:40 PM EDT To: Sheldon Pollock Subject: max planck institute Dear Shelly, The listing that follows is for a two-year position in a research project that Glenn Most and I will be organizing at the Max Planck Institute for History of Science in Berlin, to examine in a comparative way the history of textual practices in several cultures: http://www.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/en/news/jobs.html We hope that junior scholars in many fields that have elaborate textual traditions will apply, and were wondering if there is a particular web site where we could have this posted, and where it would be likely to attract the attention of young South Asian scholars. [...] Thanks so much. Yours, Tony Anthony Grafton Department of History Princeton University 129 Dickinson Hall Princeton NJ 08544 tel: 609 258 4182/4159 fax: 609 258 5326 Center Manager: Barbara Leavey tel: 609 258 5893 email: blleavey at princeton.edu From michael.zimmermann at UNI-HAMBURG.DE Fri Oct 29 19:48:59 2010 From: michael.zimmermann at UNI-HAMBURG.DE (Michael Zimmermann) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 10 21:48:59 +0200 Subject: New Book: Analayo's "The Genesis of the Bodhisattva Ideal" Message-ID: <161227090658.23782.17060114400744579155.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2357 Lines: 56 New Book Series started by the Center for Buddhist Studies at Hamburg University Buddhism has enjoyed a prominent place in the study of Asian religious ideas at Hamburg University for almost 100 years, ever since the birth of Buddhist Studies in Germany. With the publication series "Hamburg Buddhist Studies," the Center for Buddhist Studies at Hamburg University aims to honor this long-standing commitment to research and share the results of this tradition with the community of scholars and the wider public. The new series of "Hamburg Buddhist Studies" will also contribute to opening up Buddhist Studies to those who are not necessarily trained in the classical languages of the Buddhist traditions but want to approach the field with their own disciplinary interests in mind. Vol 1: Analayo: The Genesis of the Bodhisattva Ideal ( http://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg.de/index.php?id=105&L=1 ) In this book, Bhikkhu Analayo investigates the genesis of the bodhisattva ideal, one of the most important concepts in the history of Buddhist thought. He brings together material from the corpus of the early discourses preserved mainly in Pali and Chinese that appear to have influenced the arising of the bodhisattva ideal. Analayo convincingly shows that the early sources do not present compassionate concern for others as a motivating force for the Buddha's quest for awakening. He further offers an analysis of the only reference to Maitreya in the Pali canon, showing that this reference is most likely a later addition. In sum, Bhikkhu Analayo is able to delineate a gradual genesis of central aspects of the bodhisattva ideal by documenting (1) an evolution in the bodhisattva concept reflected in the early discourses, (2) the emergence of the notion of a vow to pursue the path to buddhahood, and (3) the possible background for the idea of a prediction an aspirant to buddhahood receives from a former buddha. 179 pages, ISBN 978-3-937816-62-3, Hamburg University Press. The volume is freely available online or can be ordered by mail (EUR 22.80). ------------------------------------------ Michael Zimmermann Barbara Schuler Center for Buddhist Studies University of Hamburg Alsterterrasse 1 20354 Hamburg, Germany phone: +49-(0)40-42838-4831 www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg.de From dimitrov at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE Sat Oct 30 22:08:07 2010 From: dimitrov at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE (Dragomir Dimitrov) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 10 00:08:07 +0200 Subject: NEW BOOK: The Bhaik=?UTF-8?Q?=E1=B9=A3uk=C4=AB_Manuscript_of_the_Candr=C4=81la=E1=B9=83k=C4=81ra?= Message-ID: <161227090661.23782.17860679511318800207.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2743 Lines: 83 NEW BOOK ANNOUNCEMENT The Bhaik?uk? Manuscript of the Candr?la?k?ra Study, Script Tables, and Facsimile Edition By Dragomir Dimitrov Cambridge, Mass. 2010 Harvard Oriental Series, Vol. 72 Gebundene Ausgabe, xiv, 196 pp. ISBN: 978-0-674-05138-6 Price: EUR 22.50 / USD 25.00 / GBP 18.95 SUMMARY This volume discusses the Bhaik?uk? manuscript of the Candr?la?k?ra (?Ornament of the Moon?), a commentarial treatise of the twelfth century based on the C?ndravy?kara?a (fifth century), Candragomin?s seminal Buddhist grammar of Sanskrit. The book offers an overview of the discovery of the Bhaik?uk? script, along with a description of all available written sources. The detailed study of the fragmentary codex unicus of the Candr?la?k?ra is accompanied by a facsimile edition and extensive tables of the Bhaik?uk? script. The Buddhist author of the commentary has been identified for the first time, and the nature of his treatise and its position in the C?ndra school of grammar have been expounded. The history of the manuscript and newly discovered traces of the Bhaik?uk? script in Tibet have also been discussed. This publication will serve as a prolegomenon for the preparation of a critical edition of the Candr?la?k?ra, which until now was believed to have been lost irretrievably. The Bhaik?uk? Manuscript of the Candr?la?k?ra will appeal to specialists with interests in a variety of fields such as Indian palaeography, grammar, Buddhism, history, and Indo-Tibetan studies. CONTENTS List of Illustrations. ix Abbreviations. x Acknowledgements. xi CHAPTER ONE: INTRODUCTION. 1 1.1 The Discovery of the Bhaik?uk? script. 3 1.2 The Sindhura Script. 6 1.3 Preliminary Analysis of the Candr?la?k?ra Manuscript. 9 1.4 Inscriptions in the Bhaik?uk? Script. 12 1.5 Manuscripts in the Bhaik?uk? Script. 15 CHAPTER TWO: THE CANDR?LA?K?RA AND ITS MANUSCRIPT. 23 2.1 The Candr?la?k?ra. 25 2.2 Further Traces of the Bhaik?uk? Script in Tibet. 50 2.3 Letter-Numerals in the Bhaik?uk? Script. 53 2.4 The Order of the Folios of the Candr?la?k?ra Manuscript. 61 CHAPTER THREE: SCRIPT TABLES. 71 3.1 Tables of the Bhaik?uk? Script. 73 3.2 Palaeographic peculiarities. 117 3.3 Conclusion. 119 APPENDIX: Facsimile Edition of the Candr?la?k?ra Manuscript. 121 BIBLIOGRAPHY. 181 INDEX. 193 For further details see here: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674051386 ________________________________________ Dr. Dragomir Dimitrov Indologie und Tibetologie Philipps-Universit?t Marburg Deutschhausstr. 12 35032 Marburg Germany Tel.: +49 6421 28 24640, +49 178 9190340 E-mail: dimitrov at staff.uni-marburg.de http://www.uni-marburg.de/indologie ________________________________________ From theodor at RESEARCH.HAIFA.AC.IL Wed Sep 1 05:43:00 2010 From: theodor at RESEARCH.HAIFA.AC.IL (Ithamar Theodor) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 10 08:43:00 +0300 Subject: CFP - Indian and Chinese Philosophy and Religion Message-ID: <161227090245.23782.2651805663968184523.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2053 Lines: 55 Edited Volume in the Comparative Studies of Indian and Chinese Philosophy and Religion We are pleased to announce the launching of a volume in the Comparative Studies of Indian and Chinese Philosophy and Religion. Please consider submitting an essay for this volume. Here are some examples of possible titles: *Brahman and Dao *Wuwei and the Bhagavad Gita?s notion of nonaction *Senses, mind and the grasping of reality *Consciousness and attention *The inner and external worlds *Layers of virtue and dharma *Yoga and Daoist practices *Chinese and Indian mythology *Ayurvedic and Chinese medicine Naturally scholars grounded in Indian thought may have only a basic acquaintance with Chinese thought, whereas scholars grounded in Chinese thought may have only a basic acquaintance with Indian thought. However, this is a pioneering volume aimed at building bridges between these two great cultures and complex systems of thought, and as such, we would hope to balance the volume with about half of the chapters written by scholars whose main area of scholarship is grounded in Chinese thought, and the other half written by scholars whose main area of scholarship is grounded in Indian thought. We would also hope to balance the volume between Hinduism and Buddhism, as well as Confucianism and Daoism, but let us first receive proposals and then estimate the direction this volume is going. The chapters should be relatively short, and not exceed 5000 words. Please send us proposals of about 150 words. Sincerely yours, Ithamar Theodor Department of Religious and Cultural Studies The Chinese University of Hong Kong theodor at orange.net.il Author of Exploring the Bhagavad Gita; Philosophy, Structure and Meaning, Ashgate, 2010 Zhihua Yao Department of Philosophy The Chinese University of Hong Kong zyao at cuhk.edu.hk Author of The Buddhist Theory of self-Cognition, Routledge, 2005. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This message was sent using IMP, the Webmail Program of Haifa University From drdavis at WISC.EDU Thu Sep 2 01:35:21 2010 From: drdavis at WISC.EDU (Donald R. Davis, Jr.) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 10 20:35:21 -0500 Subject: K=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=F6lver?= Article Message-ID: <161227090247.23782.12820224313606204855.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 344 Lines: 15 Colleagues, I cannot recall the details of an article by Bernhard K?lver dealing with the settlement of Brahmins in the Nepal region and the connection of that settlement with the integration of the state there. Could anyone kindly jog my memory? Thanks, Don Davis Dept of Languages & Cultures of Asia University of Wisconsin-Madison From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Thu Sep 2 11:55:54 2010 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 10 13:55:54 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Re: [INDOLOGY] searchable indices? Message-ID: <161227090250.23782.15773439462798993728.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2229 Lines: 76 Maybe through the SUB G?ttingen (whole) web-site (google powered) search function: http://www.googlesyndicatedsearch.com/u/subgoettingen?hl=en&q= it is easier, especially for word-sequences, Try for example: tat tvam asi >Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 13:39:22 +0200 >From: Michael Slouber >Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] searchable indices? > > >That is helpful, but not ideal. Offline we can >do all kinds of useful searching with plain text >files, but Google seems to index only by word, >which it judges by spaces or period marks. So >your search does not actually turn up all of the >cases of ?c?rya, only the ones where it is >followed by a space or period. > > > >On Aug 24, 2010, at 1:19 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > >> Actually, one can search GRETIL in situ by using a Google Search of the >> following type: >> > > - site:http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/ ?c?rya >> >> Running the above search gave me this >> >>result >> . >> >> The "site:" prefix tells Google to restrict its search to a particular web >> site. So the above searches for "?c?rya" anywhere on the Goettingen site / >> ebene_1 >> >> D >> >> Dr Dominik Wujastyk >> Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde >> Universit?t Wien >> Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 >> A-1090 Vienna >> Austria >> -- >> Long-term email address: wujastyk at gmail.com >> PGP key: http://wujastyk.net/pgp.html >> -- >> Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of >> storage free. >> https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTIzNzI2MTY5 >> >> >> On 23 August 2010 22:48, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >> >>> You can download >>>GRETILand >>>search it locally on your hard disk. >>> >>> SARIT is a searchable collection of online >>> Skt texts that includes the Brahmapurana. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Dominik Wujastyk >>> >>> -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Thu Sep 2 16:52:24 2010 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 10 18:52:24 +0200 Subject: GRETIL update #375 Message-ID: <161227090252.23782.8518461266943283643.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1711 Lines: 61 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Arcata: Hetubindutika [alternative version] Asanga: Mahayanasutralankara Candaragomin: Sisyalekha Davuldena Jnanesvara Mahasthavira: Yasodharacarita Kamalasila: Vajracchedikatika Kurma-Purana, Part 2 (revised) Nagarjuna: Yuktisastikarika [alternative version] Satasahasrika Prajnaparamita, II.2 Vasubandhu: Bodhicittotpadasutrasastra Vasubandhu: Vimsatika vijnaptimatratasiddhi Yasomitra: Sphutartha Abhidharmakosavyakhya __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From drdavis at WISC.EDU Fri Sep 3 01:10:59 2010 From: drdavis at WISC.EDU (Donald R. Davis, Jr.) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 10 20:10:59 -0500 Subject: K=?windows-1252?Q?=F6lver?= Article Located Message-ID: <161227090254.23782.839550505155203359.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 465 Lines: 16 Dear All, I finally remembered the information for the K?lver article I was looking for. Thanks to those of you who tried to help me privately. The details are: K?lver, Bernhard. 1985. ?Erstarkende Staatsgewalt und Hinduisierung: Neues Material aus Nepal.? In H. Kulke and D. Rothermund (eds.), Regionale Tradition in S?dasien. eds. H. Kulke and D. Rothermund. Beitr?ge zur S?dasienforschung Bd. 104. Wiesbaden: Franz Steiner Verlag, 115-128. Best, Don From peter_scharf at BROWN.EDU Mon Sep 6 21:03:19 2010 From: peter_scharf at BROWN.EDU (Peter Scharf) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 10 17:03:19 -0400 Subject: Semantics/India In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090259.23782.16370270875253767883.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1414 Lines: 35 Dear Jan, I hope this email finds you and Saraju well and happy. Are you going to the 4th International Sanskrit Computational Linguistics Symposium at JNU 10-12 December? To the South Asian Linguistics Association Conference in Mysore 8-10 January? Will you be in India anytime between 10 December and 24 January? I'm planning my trip this winter to make circuit from Delhi to Hyderabad, Chennai, Pondichery, Mysore, Pune, and Mumbai between 9 December and 24 January. I hope our paths cross. Please let me know your plans this winter. Have you finalized your paper form the 14th WSC in Kyoto about Semantics in Panini where you argued that Paninian derivation begins with speech forms already in view? I would be interested in reading your full explanation of this argument. Would you please send me a copy? Or of something else you've written explaining your argument in greater detail? Thanks. Yours, Peter ********************************************************* Peter M. Scharf (401) 863-2720 office Department of Classics (401) 863-2123 dept. Brown University PO Box 1856 (401) 863-7484 fax Providence, RI 02912 Scharf at brown.edu http://www.research.brown.edu/research/profile.php?id=10044 http://sanskritlibrary.org/ ********************************************************* From peter_scharf at BROWN.EDU Mon Sep 6 21:06:27 2010 From: peter_scharf at BROWN.EDU (Peter Scharf) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 10 17:06:27 -0400 Subject: apology Message-ID: <161227090261.23782.16837176084712643996.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 528 Lines: 15 Sorry, I didn't mean to send that last message to the list. Peter ********************************************************* Peter M. Scharf (401) 863-2720 office Department of Classics (401) 863-2123 dept. Brown University PO Box 1856 (401) 863-7484 fax Providence, RI 02912 Scharf at brown.edu http://www.research.brown.edu/research/profile.php?id=10044 http://sanskritlibrary.org/ ********************************************************* From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Mon Sep 6 20:54:24 2010 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (gthomgt at COMCAST.NET) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 10 20:54:24 +0000 Subject: A.B. Keith article in JRAS 1907 In-Reply-To: <712989864.244394.1283802744319.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <161227090257.23782.10847788390576480995.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 638 Lines: 14 Dear List, My access to JSTOR currently? isn't working.? I would like to download an article by Keith which appears to deal with the development of Vedic Shakhas.? I am interested in particular in the development of the Mandukeyas, for a festschrift paper that I am trying to write, with a deadline hanging over my head. Does anyone have a pdf of this article, or can anyone easily & readily get it [without much trouble!]?? I would of course be most grateful for your help. And if anyone else has any insights into the obscure origins of the Mandukeyas, I would like to hear about them. Best wishes to all, George Thompson From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Tue Sep 7 01:57:25 2010 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (gthomgt at COMCAST.NET) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 10 01:57:25 +0000 Subject: A.B. Keith article in JRAS 1907 In-Reply-To: <904838006.260437.1283823958455.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <161227090264.23782.11540113140095909826.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1234 Lines: 16 Dear List, I have gotten several very quick?offlist replies -- for which I am grateful to all of you--?asking for more information.? I can refer to Macdonell? & Keirh, Vedic Index, s.v.?maa.n.duukeya which cites Scheftelowitz, Die Apokryphen des Rgveda, which?I have, but which is not very specific, so not very helpful.? The Vedic Index article is typically elliptical of them, giving no title to the original article.? Vedic Studies was aimed at a very closed club even then as it still is now. Scheftelowiitz cites Weber, Ind. St. III.253, which I also do not have acess to.? ? But I have had access to Madhav Deshpande's very helpful discussion of the Mandukeyas in his classic essay on Retroflexion?in the RV, as well as his notes on the Mandukeyas in his HOS?book on the AV pratisakhas, which I have at hand?as well.? But I want more than these references given ?by him, if any more are available. I think that RV 7.103 is a very interesting hymn, because it has been so much commented on by modern scholars, whereas it is completely ignored by later Vedic tradition - except for its first stanza, which was intended to link it with Parjanya mythology, with which, I think, it has nothing to do. George Thompson From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Tue Sep 7 19:24:31 2010 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (gthomgt at COMCAST.NET) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 10 19:24:31 +0000 Subject: A.B. Keith article in JRAS 1907 In-Reply-To: <1593250197.304054.1283886722308.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <161227090266.23782.18280371746458745797.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 626 Lines: 14 Dear List, The Keith article turns out to be a review of Scheftelowitz's *Die Apokryphen des Rgveda.*? Once again I would like to thank the VERY many list members who took the trouble to search for this unnamed article and those several who managed to find it and send it to me.? The list has proven once again to be a valuable resource and its members have shown once again how generous they can be. Perhaps I may be permitted to repeat my request for any more literature on or insights?into the development of the Mandukeyas.? Now I can turn my attention to Keith's review article. Best wishes, George Thompson From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET Tue Sep 7 19:42:45 2010 From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (gthomgt at COMCAST.NET) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 10 19:42:45 +0000 Subject: A.B. Keith article in JRAS 1907 In-Reply-To: <1416108309.306701.1283888491433.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <161227090269.23782.9572954559816181001.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 387 Lines: 17 Others may find useful this website, pointed out to me by Stefan Baums: the volume of JRAS that you need has been scanned by Google and is freely available through the HathiTrust Digital Library: ?? http://hdl.handle.net/2027/uc1.b3797817 All best, Stefan Baums -- Dr. Stefan Baums Group in Buddhist Studies, UC Berkeley Graduate School of Literature, Bukkyo University From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Sep 7 22:47:48 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 10 00:47:48 +0200 Subject: Sanskrit position at Columbia In-Reply-To: <7902FB70-EA8F-436D-A77A-6864529058A0@columbia.edu> Message-ID: <161227090271.23782.509613584442517310.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 501 Lines: 17 ----- Forwarded message from RAPS at columbia.edu ----- Date: 7 Sep 2010 15:00:09 -0500 From: RAPS at columbia.edu Subject: RAPS search no. 0001570 is open The following position has been opened and posted in RAPS: Title: Senior Lecturer in Sanskrit/Lecturer in Sanskrit Requisition Number: 0001570 Department: Middle Eastern, South Asian, African Studies (345) The direct link for this position is < https://academicjobs.columbia.edu/applicants/Central?quickFind=53624> From tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU Wed Sep 8 20:43:27 2010 From: tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU (Tracy Coleman) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 10 14:43:27 -0600 Subject: Men and Masculinity in Hinduism & Buddhism Message-ID: <161227090273.23782.17252241009143342122.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1896 Lines: 43 Indologists-- I will be teaching a new course this year entitled "Holy Men, Manly Men: Gods, Buddhas and Gurus in South Asia," a title that could alternatively refer to "heroic" men or to "yogis." I intend to explore the connections between masculinity and divinity, and men and religious power more generally. I am therefore seeking your suggestions for readings, including course texts and/or articles; monographs and edited volumes to order for our library (for use in student research papers); and any related articles that may be helpful for students' research on specific topics, including iconography. For course texts, so far I plan to use Olivelle's recent translation of the Buddhacarita, along with John Power's _A Bull of a Man_. I may use Bryant's translation of Bhagavata Purana X. I'd like to treat the Sanskrit epics, or at least the Ramayana, perhaps using a single volume from the Clay Sanskrit Library, supplemented by other readings, possibly treating contemporary images/uses of Rama. I'd also like to look at a significant guru or yogi figure (Ramakrishna, for example, or another figure who has been studied from different perspectives). But I'm sure there are many more possibilities that you all know about as well. I also plan to explore iconographic traditions. My students are undergraduate, but very smart, and all will have a prerequisite of introductory Hinduism or/and Buddhism. I can't ask them to pay exorbitant prices for course texts, but I can order such texts (if highly relevant) for the library for student research. I am especially seeking references to critical studies that treat men, masculinity, and male sexuality specifically, since their is so much more in gender studies focused on women. I look forward to whatever you may recommend, and I thank you in advance for you help. Tracy Coleman Department of Religion Colorado College From SamuelG at CARDIFF.AC.UK Thu Sep 9 01:23:23 2010 From: SamuelG at CARDIFF.AC.UK (Geoffrey Samuel) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 10 02:23:23 +0100 Subject: Men and Masculinity in Hinduism & Buddhism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090276.23782.8259132335417298560.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2960 Lines: 71 Dear Tracy There are some extended discussions of masculinity in my Origins of Yoga and Tantra: Indian Religions to the Thirteenth Century? (Cambridge University Press, 2008). See Chapter 8 in particular. David Gordon White's new book Sinister Yogis (University of Chicago 2009) may be relevant as well, in particular in relation to the early construction of yoga in the Mahabharata etc as closely connected with warriorship. Best wishes Geoffrey School of History, Archaeology and Religion, Cardiff University, Humanities Bldg, Colum Drive, Cardiff CF10 3EU. Research Group on the Body, Health and Religion (BAHAR), 10 Museum Place, Cardiff CF10 3BG. Tel. +44 29 2087 0558, 2087 0546. BAHAR: http://www.bodyhealthreligion.org.uk/BAHAR/ -----Indology wrote: ----- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: ? ?Wed, 8 Sep 2010 14:43:27 -0600 From: ? ?Tracy Coleman Subject: Men and Masculinity in Hinduism & Buddhism Indologists-- I will be teaching a new course this year entitled "Holy Men, Manly Men: Gods, Buddhas and Gurus in South Asia," a title that could alternatively refer to "heroic" men or to "yogis." ?I intend to explore the = connections between masculinity and divinity, and men and religious power more generally. I am therefore seeking your suggestions for readings, including course texts and/or articles; monographs and edited volumes to order for our library (for use in student research papers); and any related articles that may be helpful for students' research on specific topics, including iconography. For course texts, so far I plan to use Olivelle's recent translation of the Buddhacarita, along with John Power's _A Bull of a Man_. ?I may use Bryant's translation of Bhagavata Purana X. ?I'd like to treat the Sanskrit epics, or at least the Ramayana, perhaps using a single volume from the Clay Sanskrit Library, supplemented by other readings, possibly treating contemporary images/uses of Rama. ?I'd also like to look at a significant guru or yogi figure (Ramakrishna, for example, or another figure who has been studied from different perspectives). ?But I'm sure there are many more possibilities that you all know about as well. ?I = also plan to explore iconographic traditions. My students are undergraduate, but very smart, and all will have a prerequisite of introductory Hinduism or/and Buddhism. ?I can't ask them to pay exorbitant prices for course texts, but I can order such texts = (if highly relevant) for the library for student research. I am especially seeking references to critical studies that treat men, masculinity, and male sexuality specifically, since their is so much = more in gender studies focused on women. I look forward to whatever you may recommend, and I thank you in advance for you help. Tracy Coleman Department of Religion Colorado College ------------------------------ From hellwig7 at GMX.DE Sat Sep 11 08:38:20 2010 From: hellwig7 at GMX.DE (Oliver Hellwig) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 10 09:38:20 +0100 Subject: New version of DCS Message-ID: <161227090278.23782.16941624893606892064.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1342 Lines: 35 Dear colleagues, a new version of the Digital Corpus of Sanskrit has been released at http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/index.php. New features/texts: - 6th Book of the Mahabharata complete - Bigram search: The program automatically locates bigrams that contain a given word and occur with a user-defined frequency. This feature is useful, for example, to detect typical phrases or to study the semantic fields of verbs (have a look at the Google research page at http://googleresearch.blogspot.com/2006/08/all-our-n-gram-are-belong-to-you.html for further inspiration). To access bigrams, ... - Search for a word in the dictionary or the query page, e.g. manu. - On the detail page of the word, click the link "n-grams" (6th line from the top). The bigrams are displayed. - A detailed explanation can be found at http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/index.php?contents=help_ngrams. - The site contains a list that includes references to the secondary literature found in the word meanings; refer to http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/index.php?contents=help_xt_references. Comments and ideas for improvement are highly welcome! Best regards, Oliver Hellwig -------------------- PD Dr. Oliver Hellwig S?dasien-Institut, Universit?t Heidelberg Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, 69120 Heidelberg Germany From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sat Sep 11 13:13:44 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 10 15:13:44 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Study Guide India... In-Reply-To: <4C8A44CC.9050703@knowledge-must.com> Message-ID: <161227090281.23782.11094796925484774722.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1572 Lines: 40 News reaches me of a new, free guidebook for international students thinking of studying in India, or already on their way there. This INDOLOGY forum doesn't carry advertisements from publishers, but in this case the publication is non-commercial, and is released under a Creative Commons license. Students can just download it and read it. I've read it, and it's good. Recommended. Best, Dominik Dear Dominik, I am Daniel Ratheiser from Knowledge Must. I would like to inform you about the publication of our new guide book ?Study in India - A Guide by Knowledge Must?, which is available for free download from our website at www.knowledge-must.com/guidebooks. We made it a point to cover all important aspects of studying as a foreigner in India. Life for international students will be so much easier once they figured out the logistical requirements and the Indian cultural environment. In addition to answering the most pressing questions, the guide features valuable insights ranging from logistics such as visa procedures and accommodation arrangements to cultural background information and inspiration for how to spend one's leisure time. We make this guidebook available to everybody for free individual, non-commercial usage. Please share it with others in your network. You are also able to offer it for download on your website, if you choose to do so. In case you have any further questions, I am always happy to answer them. Best regards, Daniel Email: daniel.ratheiser at knowledge-must.com Website: www.knowledge-must.com From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sat Sep 11 13:17:49 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 10 15:17:49 +0200 Subject: Roodbergen honoured Message-ID: <161227090283.23782.9536153974840561297.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 86 Lines: 4 http://news.indiainfo.com/octogenarian-dutchman-in-love-with-sanskrit-1610038.html From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Mon Sep 13 14:50:47 2010 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 10 16:50:47 +0200 Subject: Publication Announcement Message-ID: <161227090286.23782.4894157798444928653.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2088 Lines: 27 Hermann Jacobi, Zur indischen Poetik und ?sthetik. Herausgegeben von Andreas Pohlus. (Geisteskultur Indiens. 15. Klassiker der Indologie). (Studia Indologica Universitatis Halensis) Aachen: Shaker 2010. pp. 540. ISBN: 978-3-8322-9118-1 Price: 44.80 EUR Hardbound http://www.shaker.de/de/content/catalogue/index.asp?lang=de&ID=8&ISBN=978-3-8322-9118-1. Hermann Georg Jacobi (*1. Februar 1850 in K?ln; ? 19. Oktober 1937 in Bonn) war von 1889 ? 1922 als Nachfolger von Theodor Aufrecht ordentlicher Professor f?r Sanskrit und vergleichende Sprachwissenschaft an der Universit?t Bonn. Einen Schwerpunkt seiner Forschungen bildete die indische Poetik (Ala?k?ra??stra), ihre Themen und ihre Chronologie. Seine ?bersetzungen des Dhvany?loka des ?nandavardhana und des Ala?k?rasarvasva des Ruyyaka erschlossen zwei ihrer Schl?sselwerke und pr?gten die Wiedergabe ihrer termini technici in der deutschen Sprache. Anders als bei der von Hans Losch 1969 publizierten Sammlung werden hier alle einschl?gigen in verschiedenen Zeitschriften verstreut erschienenen Studien und ?bersetzungen Jacobis vollst?ndig zug?nglich gemacht. Hinzu kommt der Besprechungsaufsatz ?Eine indische ?sthetik? des Philosophen Adolf Dyroff zur ?nandavardhana-?bersetzung Jacobis. Zum besseren Verst?ndnis seiner Kontroverse mit Carl Bernheimer ?ber die vakrokti sind zudem auch Bernheimers Beitr?ge mit in die Sammlung aufgenommen worden. Um die Aufs?tze und ?bersetzungen leichter erschlie?en zu k?nnen, hat der Herausgeber einen Index erstellt, der neben Namen, Sachen und technischen Termini auch die von Jacobi besprochenen Texte und Textstellen enth?lt. Walter Slaje ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From james_fitzgerald at BROWN.EDU Wed Sep 15 10:59:20 2010 From: james_fitzgerald at BROWN.EDU (Fitzgerald, James) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 10 06:59:20 -0400 Subject: Brown University Religious Studies: Position in Religions of South Asia, Hindu Traditions, Hindi & Sanskrit expertise Message-ID: <161227090288.23782.7552489259506784449.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1900 Lines: 38 Dear colleagues, please take note of this opening and circulate it to well-qualified candidates. BROWN UNIVERSITY's Department of Religious Studies invites applications for an open rank position to begin July 1, 2011, in the area of Religions of South Asia, with special expertise in the Hindu traditions. The Department is seeking a scholar who is engaged with the wider fields of Religious Studies and Asian Studies, including relevant theoretical approaches, and who is prepared to teach at undergraduate and graduate levels. Preference will be given to candidates who have a research competence in literary Hindi, knowledge of Sanskrit, and the ability to teach broad courses that embrace the entire history of the Hindu tradition and its interactions with other South Asian religions. The Ph.D. must be in hand before July 1, 2011. Candidates should send a letter of application (addressing qualifications, research, and teaching interests), a curriculum vitae, and (in hard copy only) one representative writing sample or scholarly publication to the search committee. In addition, applicants at the rank of assistant professor should arrange to have three letters of reference and graduate transcripts sent. Senior applicants should send the names of at least five scholars whom the committee may contact. Priority will be given to applications received by October 15, 2010. Please send all hard copy materials to Professor Janine Sawada, Chair, South Asian Religions Search Committee, Department of Religious Studies, Box 1927, Brown University, Providence, RI 02912-1927. General inquiries and electronic materials should be addressed to Nicole Vadnais, RS Department Manager, by email (Nicole_Vadnais at brown.edu). Brown University is an equal opportunity/affirmative action employer. James Fitzgerald Das Professor of Sanskrit Acting Chair Department of Classics Brown University From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Thu Sep 16 15:33:29 2010 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 10 17:33:29 +0200 Subject: GRETIL update #376 Message-ID: <161227090291.23782.4748275604315866163.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 583 Lines: 22 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Jayatirtha: Nyayasudha, Adhyaya 3, Padas 1 and 2 __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE Sat Sep 18 07:26:54 2010 From: axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE (Axel Michaels) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 10 07:26:54 +0000 Subject: Manusmrti Message-ID: <161227090293.23782.6390946030716648214.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 385 Lines: 15 Just published: first translation of Manusmrti from Sanskrit into German: Manusmrti - Manus Gesetzbuch. Aus dem Sanskrit ?bersetzt und herausgegeben von Axel Michaels unter Mitarbeit von Anand Mishra. Berlin: Verlag der Weltreligionen, 2010, 427 pp. - 35,- Euro See also: http://www.verlagderweltreligionen.de/suche.cfm?suche=axel+Michaels&x=0&y=0 Greetings, Axel Michaels From palaniappa at AOL.COM Sun Sep 19 01:36:08 2010 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 10 20:36:08 -0500 Subject: Akam 113 Message-ID: <161227090296.23782.3689183662705586434.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3047 Lines: 27 Dear Indologists, In the Classical Tamil poem Akan????u (Akam) 113, consider the following line. e??ap p??a? nal n???u umpar (Akam. 113.17) The word 'e??a' has been interpreted by the commentators variously as meaning 'not attacking those fleeing the battle' or 'not fleeing from the battle'. I think what we seem to have here is a negative adjectival participial form of the causative 'e?u' 'to make music, to play the lute', offering a simple and direct meaning of 'not making music'. The poet is cleverly using the same device we find in v???p p?rpp?? (Akam.24.1) where v??? 'non-sacrificing' is used in a similar fashion. Thus P??a?, the king or chieftain, is a p??a? who does not make music. Thus the poet signifies the dynastic name which later came to be called 'b??a'. We also find such usages involving homonyms such as porunar (por?ap porunar 'non-fighting porunar') in Classical tamil texts. If this is correct, then what we have here is an indication that the earlier form of the dynastic name 'b??a' was most probably 'p??a?'. Such voicing of initial voiceless consonants could have arisen as in DEDR 4124 Ta. p??ai Te. b??a or as a result of re-interpretation of the word 'p??a-' found in the compound Perump??a- (as in Perump??app??i, the region lying across the Tamil-Telugu border land) the Sanskrit equivalent of which would be B?hadb??a which is found in the T?lagunda pillar inscription of 5th century CE (EI 8, p.32). The voiced pronunciation of 'p' as 'b' after the nasal 'm' could have given rise to such interpretation. (There does not seem to be a Telugu cognate of DEDR 4068 Ta. p??a?). The B??a dynasty later claimed an origin from the puranic asura Mah?bali through his son B??a. This connection is also indicated in the Ma?im?kalai 19.54. (Does any other Indian dynasty claim descent from Bali?) A question arises as to whether 'B??a' could not be the original and that the Tamil text simply devoiced 'b' to 'p'. If 'b' were the original, the Tamil form would usually end up being 'v' as indeed Cilappatik?ram 6.54 referring to the puranic 'B??a' as 'V??a?' shows. The Cengam herostones of 6th century refer to the B??a king as 'Perump???araicar'. From 7th century, the form ''V??ak? Araicaru' is seen more and more but 'we also see 'Perump??atiyaraicar' in the 8th century. Thus if the word-initial sound is 'b', it seems to be rendered by Tamil 'v', while medial 'b' is rendered as Tamil 'p' since medially original Tamil 'p' would also sound as 'b'. In such a scenario, the name 'p??a?' in Akam. 113 with an initial 'p' instead of 'v' should most probably indicate that the original form was 'p??a?'. If that is correct, then we have the sound variation p-* > b- > v- in the names attested over time. A related discussion is found in Iravatham Mahadevan's "Early Tamil Epigraphy," p. 629. However, Dr. E. Subbarayalu feels that 'p??ar???ra' mentioned in "Lokavibh?ga' may be different from Perump??app??i. I would appreciate comments from the Indologists. Thanks in advance. Regards, Palaniappan From palaniappa at AOL.COM Sun Sep 19 12:35:04 2010 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 10 07:35:04 -0500 Subject: Halasya Mahatmya Query Message-ID: <161227090299.23782.13456281620908454777.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 874 Lines: 11 In his article, "The "Periya Puran?am" Frieze at Ta?ra?curam: Episodes in the Lives of the Tamil S?aiva Saints", Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London, Vol. 42, No. 2, In Honour of Thomas Burrow (1979), pp. 268-289, J. R. Marr says on p.281, "He made a number of royal journeys on pilgrimage, and in Maturai met the musician Pattira??r, referredto both in P[eriyapur??am] and Tiruvilai[y??al Pur??am] as P??an?r Pattira??r. This does not stop ??umuka n?valar, C. K. Cuppirama?iya Mutaliy?r and Ve?ka?ac?mi N????r referring to this devotee as P??apattirar, perhaps based on Skt. B??abhadra. I would appreciate if anybody with access to Sanskrit H?l?sya M?h?tmya could check if the name B??abhadra occurs in the episode dealing with ?iva selling firewood in Madurai and give the reference. Thanks in advance Regards, Palaniappan From slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU Sun Sep 19 20:08:55 2010 From: slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU (Steven Lindquist) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 10 15:08:55 -0500 Subject: South Indian music conference Message-ID: <161227090301.23782.13462396204100995069.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1117 Lines: 48 Please pardon any cross-posting. Best, Steven -- Steven Lindquist, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Religious Studies Southern Methodist University Homepage: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui -- SMU ANNUAL SOUTH ASIA CONFERENCE >From Yal to Vinai: South Indian Classical Music Before the 19th Century Date: Sat., Oct. 9th, 2010 Time: 9:30am-4:30pm Place: McCord Auditorium (Dallas Hall, 3rd. floor) This event is free and open to the public. A free lunch is provided, so please RSVP to music at sarii.org. Presenters include: Dr. N. Ramanathan Professor of Indian Music (Retd.), University of Madras Dr. Sr. Magaret Bastin Principal, Kalai Kaviri College of Fine Arts Dr. Matthew Allen Jane E. Ruby Professor of Music, Wheaton College Dr. S. Palaniappan, President, SARII Dr. Lakshmi Subramanian Professor of History, Center for Studies in Social Sciences (Calcutta) Sponsored by the South Asia Research and Information Institute (Dallas), the Asian Studies Program, and the Department of Religious Studies at SMU More information available at: www.smu.edu/asianstudies/events www.sarii.org From hopeforageneration at GMAIL.COM Mon Sep 20 05:45:45 2010 From: hopeforageneration at GMAIL.COM (patrick mccartney) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 10 15:45:45 +1000 Subject: question Message-ID: <161227090303.23782.8771859371995283328.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 350 Lines: 24 Dear List, I would like to know whether anyone has ever seen r?mau or s?tau used to describe both R?ma & S?t?? Like for instance when pitarau is used to describe m?t? & pitara. All the best, -- Patrick McCartney - 39 Arabana Street Aranda ACT Australia 2614 SKYPE: cranky-mechanic ?? ????? ??????? tava hRdayaM anugaccha Follow your heart From wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK Mon Sep 20 15:16:55 2010 From: wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK (Whitney Cox) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 10 16:16:55 +0100 Subject: Workshop in Cambridge Message-ID: <161227090306.23782.12708966636385074340.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 652 Lines: 26 Forwarded to the list on behalf of the workshop organisers: Dear list members, The second International Indology Graduate Research Symposium (IIGRS2) will be held at the Faculty of Asian and Middle Eastern Studies, University of Cambridge, from the 23rd ? 24th September. Please find the programme at http://iigrs.byethost17.com/programme, and contact us directly at iigrsuk at googlemail.com should you be interested in attending. With best wishes, IIGRS Organizing Committee -- Dr. Whitney Cox Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, School of Oriental and African Studies Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square London WC1H 0XG From acerulli at AYA.YALE.EDU Wed Sep 22 10:26:33 2010 From: acerulli at AYA.YALE.EDU (A.Cerulli) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 10 06:26:33 -0400 Subject: Malayalam text Jyotsnika sought In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090311.23782.14356060198728603242.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 693 Lines: 28 Michael, The *Jy?tsnik? *is available online in the Kyoto archive of Sanskrit texts, available through Professor Michio Yano's website: http://1l2.us/5j Best, Anthony Cerulli On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 4:37 AM, Michael Slouber wrote: > Dear scholars, > > Might someone have a digital copy of the Malayalam text on vi?avaidya > called Jyotsnik? they would be willing to share off-list? It is quite rare > and I am unable to get it by interlibrary loan or online. If someone on the > list has a paper copy of an edition, or even a manuscript, I would be happy > to pay for a reproduction of it. > > Thank you, > > Michael Slouber > PhD Candidate > UC Berkeley From mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU Wed Sep 22 08:37:57 2010 From: mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU (Michael Slouber) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 10 10:37:57 +0200 Subject: Malayalam text Jyotsnika sought Message-ID: <161227090308.23782.5228606146723728128.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 411 Lines: 12 Dear scholars, Might someone have a digital copy of the Malayalam text on vi?avaidya called Jyotsnik? they would be willing to share off-list? It is quite rare and I am unable to get it by interlibrary loan or online. If someone on the list has a paper copy of an edition, or even a manuscript, I would be happy to pay for a reproduction of it. Thank you, Michael Slouber PhD Candidate UC Berkeley From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Sep 22 13:58:07 2010 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 10 15:58:07 +0200 Subject: Malayalam text Jyotsnika sought In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090313.23782.16131159759510807085.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1034 Lines: 42 And the text and tr. were published as a book by Dr Madhu. I have a copy. I'm sure he would be delighted if you wrote to him and asked to purchase a copy. His email is . Dominik On 22 September 2010 12:26, A.Cerulli wrote: > Michael, > > The *Jy?tsnik? *is available online in the Kyoto archive of Sanskrit texts, > available through Professor Michio Yano's website: http://1l2.us/5j > > Best, > Anthony Cerulli > > > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 4:37 AM, Michael Slouber >wrote: > > > Dear scholars, > > > > Might someone have a digital copy of the Malayalam text on vi?avaidya > > called Jyotsnik? they would be willing to share off-list? It is quite > rare > > and I am unable to get it by interlibrary loan or online. If someone on > the > > list has a paper copy of an edition, or even a manuscript, I would be > happy > > to pay for a reproduction of it. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Michael Slouber > > PhD Candidate > > UC Berkeley > From mccomas.taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Thu Sep 23 00:22:09 2010 From: mccomas.taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 10 10:22:09 +1000 Subject: Student project:Abhij=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=B1=C4=81na=C5=9Bakuntalam?= Message-ID: <161227090316.23782.15234368579482806042.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 681 Lines: 39 Dear Colleague Two fine 3rd year students at the ANU have produced a wonderful stop-animation of a snippet of Abhij??na?akuntalam Please see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2yHWMS62O0 I am sure they would love to hear from you: Annie McCarthy and Patrick McCartney Yours McComas Taylor -- =============================== Dr McComas Taylor Head, South Asia Program College of Asia and the Pacific The Australian National University ACTON ACT 0200 Tel: +61 2 6125 3179 Fax: +61 2 6125 8326 Email: mccomas.taylor at anu.edu.au http://tinyurl.com/38cj94n Location: Room E4.24 Baldessin Precinct Building From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Fri Sep 24 14:06:14 2010 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 10 09:06:14 -0500 Subject: Experience with "Critical" edition of Kanjur and Tanjur In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090321.23782.17168215658738469662.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 485 Lines: 20 Hi Jonathan, I've found it best to consider it as a collation, rather than a critical edition. It is useful primarily in that it records - fairly well in my experience - the variants in the different editions it uses. But if one were preparing a critical edition, one might wish to cross-check. as ever, Matthew Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU Fri Sep 24 14:36:40 2010 From: ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Paul G. Hackett) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 10 10:36:40 -0400 Subject: Experience with "Critical" edition of Kanjur and Tanjur In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090323.23782.6032367040020489659.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2619 Lines: 66 Dear Jonathan, My experience with the Comparative (dpe bsdur ma) recension is that the quality is mixed. The Bstan-'gyur, which was done first, seems to have more errors in it than the Bka'-'gyur. In particular, if you look closely at the texts in the Bstan-'gyur, one of the first things that you'll notice are some inconsistencies with the endnotes ... that is, for example, there will be pages with seven endnote markers, but only six corresponding endnotes, or vise versa. There are, as well, the occasional inevitable typographic errors. I have noticed some, and have talked with Gen Lozang Jamspal, who has identified several as well. In general, the editors appear to concentrated on content differences between texts in the different recensions and less so any stylistic differences (presence or absence of _shad_s, etc.). I think it is still a worthwhile collection to acquire, as they have clearly taken great pains to identify the, at times, substantial differences between some texts, and made a point of separating out radically different translations of texts that have been conflated in other catalogs. One thing to be aware of, however, is that there are serious errors in the tables of contents to some of the volumes such as duplicated numbering, mis-pagination, etc. (FYI, I have compiled a corrected catalog for this collection, which will be published shortly). On the whole, I would recommend it certainly as a starting place for anyone hoping to do their own critical editing of a text. regards, Paul Hackett Assoc. Editor, Tengyur Translation Initiative Columbia University Quoting Jonathan Silk : > dear Colleagues, > > I'm wondering if some of you who have had a chance to actually look into the > editions of the Kanjur and Tanjur published by the China Tibetology > Publishing House would be willing to share your opinion of these volumes. I > do not expect them to be critical, but I wonder if they are good enough to > be useful, or if in fact one is just as well off, if not better, simply > going to a xylograph (such as Derge). > I have the memory, from having seen a volume from the Tanjur years ago, that > they have not internally analyzed the texts, even by paragraphing. Is this > correct? > What sort of argument could one make for purchasing a set? > > Many thanks, > > Jonathan Silk > -- > J. Silk > Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden > Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS > Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 > Doelensteeg 16 > 2311 VL Leiden > The Netherlands > > From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Fri Sep 24 13:38:04 2010 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 10 15:38:04 +0200 Subject: Experience with "Critical" edition of Kanjur and Tanjur Message-ID: <161227090318.23782.2304904567792115976.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 857 Lines: 27 dear Colleagues, I'm wondering if some of you who have had a chance to actually look into the editions of the Kanjur and Tanjur published by the China Tibetology Publishing House would be willing to share your opinion of these volumes. I do not expect them to be critical, but I wonder if they are good enough to be useful, or if in fact one is just as well off, if not better, simply going to a xylograph (such as Derge). I have the memory, from having seen a volume from the Tanjur years ago, that they have not internally analyzed the texts, even by paragraphing. Is this correct? What sort of argument could one make for purchasing a set? Many thanks, Jonathan Silk -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands From utkragh at HUM.KU.DK Sat Sep 25 17:30:43 2010 From: utkragh at HUM.KU.DK (Ulrich T. Kragh) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 10 19:30:43 +0200 Subject: Experience with "Critical" edition of Kanjur and Tanjur In-Reply-To: <20100924090614.ABL58462@mstore02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227090326.23782.5794722258571109084.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2550 Lines: 19 - Dear list, it seems that the message I sent yesterday to the list did not go through, so here I try again. Jonathan Silk wrote: >I'm wondering if some of you who have had a chance to actually look into the >editions of the Kanjur and Tanjur published by the China Tibetology >Publishing House would be willing to share your opinion of these volumes. Reply: I have worked with the bstan 'gyur dpe bsdur ma (i.e., "Tanjur critical edition") published by Krung go'i bod kyi shes rig dpe skrun khang (???????), Beijing, 1998. I have used it for my work on several different shorter passages from Tantric as well as Madhyamaka texts. I compared the pertinent passages against the original xylographs of Peking, Derge and Narthang, but not of the Cone edition, which was not available to me at that time. I could see that the edition itself presented in the body-text was an exact copy of the Derge edition. All variant readings from the Peking and Narthang editions that I could check were registered correctly in the apparatus. I did not see any missing variant readings. It is not a "critical" edition per se, because it does not attempt to weigh the variants against each and choose the superior reading. I have therefore referred to it as a "comparative edition". Yet, it seems to me that it did a good job of providing all reading variants correctly. I believe it is superior to use this edition rather than relying only on a single xylograph or manuscript, but for more serious text-work, I would still check all passages in the original texts. Even when checking against the original manuscripts, it was helpful to use the Dpe bsdur ma, because it sometimes help me to spot variant readings that my own eyes otherwise overlooked. I seem to remember that it did not include punctuation variants, i.e., the use of shad (danda). Nevertheless, the Dpe bsdur ma edition has two serious short-comings. The worst short-coming is that it does not register the page or folio numbers of the original texts in the edition. This makes it really hard to go from the Dpe bsdur ma edition back into the original texts, since this requires locating the passage in the original help without any help from the side of the edition. The second short-coming is that the authors did not include the Golden Manuscript Tanjur and their Tanjur variants are therefore incomplete, as they only included four of the five existing Tanjur versions. I do not have any experience with their Kanjur edition. Sincerely, Dr. Ulrich Timme Kragh Independent scholar, Leiden. From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Mon Sep 27 16:54:39 2010 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 10 18:54:39 +0200 Subject: GRETIL update #377 Message-ID: <161227090328.23782.9587611964623166219.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 576 Lines: 22 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Jayatirtha: Nyayasudha, Adhyaya 3, Pada 3 __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU Tue Sep 28 17:17:16 2010 From: fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU (FRITS STAAL) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 10 10:17:16 -0700 Subject: Publication Announcement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227090333.23782.2795159781982448021.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3492 Lines: 96 I have not seen this book but it may contain some counter-poison to "Discovering the Vedas: Origins, Mantras, Rituals, Insights." > > > Dear Colleagues, > > I am very pleased to announce the publication of my book: > > Nicholson, Andrew J. Unifying Hinduism: Philosophy and Identity in > Indian > Intellectual History. New York: Columbia University Press, 2010. > < http://cup.columbia.edu/book/978-0-231-14986-0/unifying-hinduism > > > Anyone who wishes to receive a 30% discount on the $45 cover price can > enter the discount code "NICUN" at checkout on the Columbia University > Press website. > > With best regards, > Andrew > ______________________________________________ > Andrew J. Nicholson > Assistant Professor > Department of Asian and Asian American Studies > Stony Brook University > Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343 USA > Tel: (631) 632-4030 Fax: (631) 632-4098 > > > > Nicholson, Andrew J. Unifying Hinduism: Philosophy and Identity in > Indian > Intellectual History. New York: Columbia University Press, 2010. > > Book Description: > > Some postcolonial theorists argue that the idea of a single system of > belief known as "Hinduism" is a creation of nineteenth-century British > imperialists. Andrew J. Nicholson introduces another perspective: > although > a unified Hindu identity is not as ancient as some Hindus claim, it has > its > roots in innovations within South Asian philosophy from the fourteenth to > seventeenth centuries. During this time, thinkers treated the > philosophies > of Vedanta, Samkhya, and Yoga, along with the worshippers of Visnu, Siva, > and Sakti, as belonging to a single system of belief and practice. > Instead > of seeing such groups as separate and contradictory, they re-envisioned > them as separate rivers leading to the ocean of Brahman, the ultimate > reality. > > Drawing on the writings of philosophers from late medieval and early > modern > traditions, including Vijnanabhiksu, Madhava, and Madhusudana Sarasvati, > Nicholson shows how influential thinkers portrayed Vedanta philosophy as > the ultimate unifier of diverse belief systems. This project paved the > way > for the work of later Hindu reformers, such as Vivekananda, > Radhakrishnan, > and Gandhi, whose teachings promoted the notion that all world religions > belong to a single spiritual unity. In his study, Nicholson also > critiques > the way in which Eurocentric concepts?like monism and dualism, idealism > and > realism, theism and atheism, and orthodoxy and heterodoxy?have come to > dominate modern discourses on Indian philosophy. > > Reviews: > > "Unifying Hinduism does much more than deal with the philosophy of > Vijnanabhiksu, it questions in an intelligent and constructive manner how > Indian philosophy has been studied in modern scholarship?-and ways in > which > it has been done wrong." ? Johannes Bronkhorst, University of Lausanne, > Switzerland > > "Andrew J. Nicholson's courageous and challenging thesis is that > processes > of unification were at work in early modern India, particularly in the > attempt by Vedanta philosophers to create hierarchies of philosophical > schools, and these processes 'made possible the world religion later > known > by the name Hinduism.' Unifying Hinduism is a fluent, eminently readable, > and absorbing study of a period in Indian intellectual history that fully > deserves the attention it is now receiving." ? Jonardon Ganeri, > University > of Sussex Frits Staal www.fritsstaalberkeley.com From andrew.nicholson at STONYBROOK.EDU Tue Sep 28 15:40:34 2010 From: andrew.nicholson at STONYBROOK.EDU (Andrew Nicholson) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 10 11:40:34 -0400 Subject: Publication Announcement Message-ID: <161227090331.23782.17925659805489693794.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3164 Lines: 73 Dear Colleagues, I am very pleased to announce the publication of my book: Nicholson, Andrew J. Unifying Hinduism: Philosophy and Identity in Indian Intellectual History. New York: Columbia University Press, 2010. < http://cup.columbia.edu/book/978-0-231-14986-0/unifying-hinduism > Anyone who wishes to receive a 30% discount on the $45 cover price can enter the discount code "NICUN" at checkout on the Columbia University Press website. With best regards, Andrew ______________________________________________ Andrew J. Nicholson Assistant Professor Department of Asian and Asian American Studies Stony Brook University Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343 USA Tel: (631) 632-4030 Fax: (631) 632-4098 Nicholson, Andrew J. Unifying Hinduism: Philosophy and Identity in Indian Intellectual History. New York: Columbia University Press, 2010. Book Description: Some postcolonial theorists argue that the idea of a single system of belief known as "Hinduism" is a creation of nineteenth-century British imperialists. Andrew J. Nicholson introduces another perspective: although a unified Hindu identity is not as ancient as some Hindus claim, it has its roots in innovations within South Asian philosophy from the fourteenth to seventeenth centuries. During this time, thinkers treated the philosophies of Vedanta, Samkhya, and Yoga, along with the worshippers of Visnu, Siva, and Sakti, as belonging to a single system of belief and practice. Instead of seeing such groups as separate and contradictory, they re-envisioned them as separate rivers leading to the ocean of Brahman, the ultimate reality. Drawing on the writings of philosophers from late medieval and early modern traditions, including Vijnanabhiksu, Madhava, and Madhusudana Sarasvati, Nicholson shows how influential thinkers portrayed Vedanta philosophy as the ultimate unifier of diverse belief systems. This project paved the way for the work of later Hindu reformers, such as Vivekananda, Radhakrishnan, and Gandhi, whose teachings promoted the notion that all world religions belong to a single spiritual unity. In his study, Nicholson also critiques the way in which Eurocentric concepts?like monism and dualism, idealism and realism, theism and atheism, and orthodoxy and heterodoxy?have come to dominate modern discourses on Indian philosophy. Reviews: "Unifying Hinduism does much more than deal with the philosophy of Vijnanabhiksu, it questions in an intelligent and constructive manner how Indian philosophy has been studied in modern scholarship?-and ways in which it has been done wrong." ? Johannes Bronkhorst, University of Lausanne, Switzerland "Andrew J. Nicholson's courageous and challenging thesis is that processes of unification were at work in early modern India, particularly in the attempt by Vedanta philosophers to create hierarchies of philosophical schools, and these processes 'made possible the world religion later known by the name Hinduism.' Unifying Hinduism is a fluent, eminently readable, and absorbing study of a period in Indian intellectual history that fully deserves the attention it is now receiving." ? Jonardon Ganeri, University of Sussex From palaniappa at AOL.COM Thu Sep 30 04:22:46 2010 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 10 23:22:46 -0500 Subject: OtuvArs and Zaiva Agamas Message-ID: <161227090336.23782.11230898463678402606.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 497 Lines: 11 Dear Indologists, Tamil uvaccars are known as a non-brahmin caste in modern times. But medieval inscriptions show that uvaccar represented merely an occupational category and both brahmins and non-brahmins have received uvaccakkANi. I have a question in connection with a similar group involved in Zaiva temples. What do the zaiva Agamas say about the caste of those who sing the tEvAram hymns in the Zaiva temples? What are the dates of these Agamas? Thanks in advance Regards, Palaniappan From phmaas at ARCOR.DE Thu Sep 30 18:23:30 2010 From: phmaas at ARCOR.DE (Philipp Maas) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 10 20:23:30 +0200 Subject: New publication on textual criticism etc. Message-ID: <161227090338.23782.4988855858687919776.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1841 Lines: 45 Dear Members of the Indology list, I am pleased to announce the publication of a double volume of the Vienna Journal of South Asian Studies: J?rgen Hanneder and Philipp A. Maas (guest eds.), Text Genealogy, Textual Criticism and Editorial Technique = Wiener Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde S?dasiens 52-53 (2009-2010). ISSN 0084-0084 Print Edition ISSN 1728-3124 Online Edition ISBN 978-3-7001-6852-2 Print Edition ISBN 978-3-7001-6926-0 Online Edition Wiener Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde S?dasiens 52-53 doi: 10.1553/wzks2009-2010 2010, 358 pp., 22,5x15cm, paper back ? 58,00 http://hw.oeaw.ac.at/6852-2?frames=yes With best regards, Philipp Maas Contents: J?rgen Hanneder: Introduction Reinhold Gr?nendahl: Post-philological Gestures - "Deconstructing" Textual Criticism Wendy J. Phillips-Rodriguez - Christopher J. Howe - Heather F. Windram: Some Considerations about Bifurcation in Diagrams Representing the Written Transmission of the Mahabharata Pascale Haag: Problems of Textual Transmission in Grammatical Literature: The pratyahara Section of the Kasikavrtti Philipp A. Maas: Computer Aided Stemmatics - The Case of Fifty-Two Text Versions of Carakasamhita Vimanasthana 8.67-157 Christina Pecchia: Transmission-specific (In)utility, or Dealing with Contamination: Samples from the Textual Tradition of the Carakasamhita Birgit Kellner: Towards a Critical Edition of Dharmakirti's Pramanavarttika Yasutaka Muroya: A Study on the Marginalia in Some Nyayama?jari Manuscripts: The Reconstruction of a Lost Portion of the Nyayama?jari- granthibhanga Anna Aurelia Esposito: Some Aspects of Textual Criticism Concerning the Keralite Drama Manuscripts Stanislav Jager: Editing Rajanaka Ratnakantha's Suryastutirahasya and Ratnasataka Takahiro Kato: Bhaskara's Brahmasutrabhasya - An Unpublished Edition by J.A.B. van Buitenen From mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU Fri Apr 1 08:19:12 2011 From: mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU (Michael Slouber) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 11 10:19:12 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Rajiv Malhotra and the Infinity Foundation In-Reply-To: <20110329102531.27271yw8i5pw1c3f@mail.uni-leipzig.de> Message-ID: <161227092093.23782.13527288043274514947.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 512 Lines: 16 The biography has been banned in Gujarat. See this BBC story: On Mar 29, 2011, at 10:25 AM, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE wrote: > A new biography of Gandhi (extracts in the Wall Street Journal) describes him as a racist and bisexual. > It would be interesting to see the response of Malhotra & co. > Best, > Eli > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Fri Apr 1 05:54:44 2011 From: McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 11 16:54:44 +1100 Subject: Third Australian Spoken Sanskrit Summer School, February 2012 Message-ID: <161227092090.23782.4505078777657766679.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1129 Lines: 15 I am delighted to announce that the Third Australian Spoken Sanskrit Summer School will be held on 5-19 February 2012. The course will be taught primarly by Pandit Dr Sadananda Das of Leipzig University. The location is the Australian National University's stunning 500-ha coastal campus at Kioala, NSW. The campus offers comfortable cottage accommodation, great food, more kangaroos than you can imagine, and 5-minute walk to pristine Pacific Ocean surf-beaches. The course is open to anyone who has completed a year of tertiary-level Sanskrit or equivalent. An entry-level component will be offered for those new to Spoken Sanskrit, and an intermediate stream will be avialable for students who have already completed the introductory level previously. The cost will be $1500-2000 depending on final enrolments. For details, bookings and payment, please see https://sites.google.com/site/spokensansrit12/ Please circulate as widely as possible. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Sat Apr 2 15:04:34 2011 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Sat, 02 Apr 11 11:04:34 -0400 Subject: Antiquity of the mantra: p=?utf-8?Q?=C5=ABr=E1=B9=87am_ada=E1=B8=A5_p=C5=AB_r=E1=B9=87am?= idam ... Message-ID: <161227092095.23782.16504668765921445890.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1041 Lines: 13 Dear Colleagues, The very popularly recited mantra "p?r?am ada? p?r?am idam.." occurs as the beginning ??ntimantra for the ???v?sya-Upani?ad. It came to me as a surprise that Bloomfield's Vedic concordance does not list this among the mantras, nor does Jacob's Concordance of the Upanishads list it. I was equally surprised that most published editions of the ???v?sya-Upani?ad do not begin with this mantra, but, as expected, they begin with the mantra: ??? v?syam idam ... Among the editions I have consulted, only the ?nand??rama (Pune) edition of the ???v?sya-Upani?ad with ???karabh??ya offers this mantra before the text of the Upani?ad proper, but ?a?kara does not comment on it, nor does any other commentary that I have seen comment on it. I am wondering if anyone has seen any research relating to the antiquity of this mantra. I would be most happy to receive any information on this subject. Best, Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA From cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET Sat Apr 2 16:16:50 2011 From: cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET (George Cardona) Date: Sat, 02 Apr 11 12:16:50 -0400 Subject: change of address Message-ID: <161227092097.23782.8031137797812400457.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 128 Lines: 4 Dear colleagues, Please note that henceforth mail to me should be sent to: cardona at sas.upenn.edu. Thanks. George Cardona From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Sat Apr 2 22:06:21 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Sat, 02 Apr 11 18:06:21 -0400 Subject: Antiquity of the mantra: p=?UTF-8?Q?=C5=ABr=E1=B9=87am_ad_a=E1=B8=A5_p=C5=AB_r=E1=B9=87am?= idam ... In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D71B1341D517@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227092102.23782.15835198173595131148.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1391 Lines: 35 Hello Madhav, There is also a variant at AVZ 10.8.29 that may be if interest. George 2011/4/2 Deshpande, Madhav > Dear Colleagues, > > The very popularly recited mantra "p?r?am ada? p?r?am idam.." occurs as > the beginning ??ntimantra for the ???v?sya-Upani?ad. It came to me as a > surprise that Bloomfield's Vedic concordance does not list this among the > mantras, nor does Jacob's Concordance of the Upanishads list it. I was > equally surprised that most published editions of the ???v?sya-Upani?ad do > not begin with this mantra, but, as expected, they begin with the mantra: > ??? v?syam idam ... Among the editions I have consulted, only the > ?nand??rama (Pune) edition of the ???v?sya-Upani?ad with ???karabh??ya > offers this mantra before the text of the Upani?ad proper, but ?a?kara does > not comment on it, nor does any other commentary that I have seen comment on > it. I am wondering if anyone has seen any research relating to the > antiquity of this mantra. I would be most happy to receive any information > on this subject. Best, > > Madhav > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Sat Apr 2 22:51:18 2011 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Sat, 02 Apr 11 18:51:18 -0400 Subject: Antiquity of the mantra: p=?utf-8?Q?=C5=ABr=E1=B9=87am_ad_a=E1=B8=A5_p=C5=AB_r=E1=B9=87am?= idam ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092105.23782.8140160719230342834.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1789 Lines: 37 Thanks everyone for suggestions regarding the attestations of p?r?am ada? passage. Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of George Thompson [gthomgt at GMAIL.COM] Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 6:06 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Antiquity of the mantra: p?r?am ad a? p? r?am idam ... Hello Madhav, There is also a variant at AVZ 10.8.29 that may be if interest. George 2011/4/2 Deshpande, Madhav > Dear Colleagues, The very popularly recited mantra "p?r?am ada? p?r?am idam.." occurs as the beginning ??ntimantra for the ???v?sya-Upani?ad. It came to me as a surprise that Bloomfield's Vedic concordance does not list this among the mantras, nor does Jacob's Concordance of the Upanishads list it. I was equally surprised that most published editions of the ???v?sya-Upani?ad do not begin with this mantra, but, as expected, they begin with the mantra: ??? v?syam idam ... Among the editions I have consulted, only the ?nand??rama (Pune) edition of the ???v?sya-Upani?ad with ???karabh??ya offers this mantra before the text of the Upani?ad proper, but ?a?kara does not comment on it, nor does any other commentary that I have seen comment on it. I am wondering if anyone has seen any research relating to the antiquity of this mantra. I would be most happy to receive any information on this subject. Best, Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA From hhhock at ILLINOIS.EDU Sat Apr 2 17:17:35 2011 From: hhhock at ILLINOIS.EDU (Hans Henrich Hock) Date: Sat, 02 Apr 11 20:17:35 +0300 Subject: Antiquity of the mantra: p=?UTF-8?Q?=C5=ABr_=E1=B9=87am_ada=E1=B8=A5_p=C5=AB_r=E1=B9=87am?= idam ... In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D71B1341D517@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227092099.23782.7414659751373432735.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1240 Lines: 38 Dear Madhav, It occurs in the B?had?ra?yakopani?ad. All the best, Hans On 2 Apr 2011, at 18:04, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > The very popularly recited mantra "p?r?am ada? p?r?am > idam.." occurs as the beginning ??ntimantra for the ???v?sya- > Upani?ad. It came to me as a surprise that Bloomfield's Vedic > concordance does not list this among the mantras, nor does Jacob's > Concordance of the Upanishads list it. I was equally surprised that > most published editions of the ???v?sya-Upani?ad do not begin > with this mantra, but, as expected, they begin with the mantra: > ??? v?syam idam ... Among the editions I have consulted, only > the ?nand??rama (Pune) edition of the ???v?sya-Upani?ad with > ???karabh??ya offers this mantra before the text of the > Upani?ad proper, but ?a?kara does not comment on it, nor does > any other commentary that I have seen comment on it. I am wondering > if anyone has seen any research relating to the antiquity of this > mantra. I would be most happy to receive any information on this > subject. Best, > > Madhav > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Sun Apr 3 06:06:12 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sun, 03 Apr 11 11:36:12 +0530 Subject: Antiquity of the mantra: p=?utf-8?Q?=C5=ABr_=E1=B9=87am_ad_a=E1=B8=A5_p=C5=AB_r=E1=B9=87am?= idam ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092108.23782.3580773899320857269.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1719 Lines: 39 AVP 16.102.1 might have been the 'master' mantra and the later versions modelled on it. Best DB --- On Sat, 2/4/11, George Thompson wrote: From: George Thompson Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Antiquity of the mantra: p?r?am ad a? p? r?am idam ... To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Saturday, 2 April, 2011, 10:06 PM Hello Madhav, ? There is also a variant at AVZ 10.8.29 that may be if interest. ? George 2011/4/2 Deshpande, Madhav Dear Colleagues, ? ? The very popularly recited mantra "p?r?am ada? p?r?am idam.." occurs as the beginning ??ntimantra for the ???v?sya-Upani?ad. ?It came to me as a surprise that Bloomfield's Vedic concordance does not list this among the mantras, nor does Jacob's Concordance of the Upanishads list it. ?I was equally surprised that most published editions of the ???v?sya-Upani?ad do not begin with this mantra, but, as expected, they begin with the mantra: ??? v?syam idam ... ? Among the editions I have consulted, only the ?nand??rama (Pune) edition of the ???v?sya-Upani?ad with ???karabh??ya offers this mantra before the text of the Upani?ad proper, but ?a?kara does not comment on it, nor does any other commentary that I have seen comment on it. ?I am wondering if anyone has seen any research relating to the antiquity of this mantra. ?I would be most happy to receive any information on this subject. ?Best, Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Apr 4 10:16:14 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 11 12:16:14 +0200 Subject: Gandhi racist and bisexual? (was Rajiv Malhotra and the Infinity Foundation) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092116.23782.3417884032342598462.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5439 Lines: 118 It is standard good practice in email forums to record when the subject of a discussion moves on from one topic to another. Someone posting a new message may update the Subject: line to reflect this change. A common way to do it is to change Subject: Old topic to Subject: New topic (was Old topic) That's what has happened here. Dominik Wujastyk for the INDOLOGY Committee. On 4 April 2011 11:07, Veeranarayana Pandurangi wrote: > I do not understand the title of message which clubbed gandhi and malhotra. > is it a mistake or some message is hidden? > > > On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Ashok Aklujkar wrote: > >> On 2011-03-29, at 1:25 AM, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE wrote: >> >> > A new biography of Gandhi (extracts in the Wall Street Journal) >> describes him as a racist and bisexual. >> >> Compare: >> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Outrage-over-reviews-of-new-Gandhi-book/articleshow/7811322.cms >> >> NEW DELHI: Thousands of books have been written on Mahatma Gandhi with >> each new one claiming to have discovered an unknown facet of his eventful >> life. When reviews of Pulitzer prizewinner Joseph Lelyveld's "Great Soul: >> Mahatma Gandhi and His Struggle with India" hit the newspapers in England >> and US claiming that the book says Gandhi was a bisexual and had a >> German-Jewish bodybuilder lover in Hermann Kallenbach it created immediate >> sensation. >> >> But as the Daily Mail's review of the book created a storm in cyberspace, >> there was a barrage of protests not just from Gandhians who said this was >> "blasphemy", but from the book's author himself who denied having suggested >> anything of the sort. >> >> Lelyveld told TOI, "I do not allege that Gandhi is a racist or bisexual in >> 'Great Soul'. The word 'bisexual' nowhere appears in the book." He also >> denied having called Gandhi a racist. "The word 'racist' is used once to >> characterise comments by Gandhi early in his stay in South Africa, part of a >> chapter summarising his statements about Africans and his relations with >> them. The chapter in no way concludes that he was a racist or offers any >> suggestion of it." >> >> Psychoanalyst Sudhir Kakar, one of the first to write on Gandhi's >> sexuality in 'Intimate Relations: Exploring Indian Sexuality' and later in >> 'Mira and Mahatma', is yet to read the book but has gone through an ocean of >> archives on Gandhi and says he never discovered anything that the reviewers >> claim the book consists of. >> >> Kakar remembers finding references to Kallenbach during his research but >> not the way the reviewers have portrayed it. He says if the book has what >> reviewers claim then it is plain "stupid." "Gandhi always talked of complete >> love but it was of platonic kind," he says. Another eminent modern India >> historian who has read the book said, "The reviews are by Churchill fans and >> rightwingers." The Mahatma's grandson Gopal Gandhi said, "I will not comment >> till I read the book." >> >> But Gandhian scholar Tridip Suhrud, author of books like 'The >> Autobiography of The Story of My Experiments With Truth' not only interacted >> with Lelyveld when he was researching the book but has also read it. He is >> aghast with the reviews and swears by Lelyveld. Suhrud says the section on >> Kallenbach begins with a quote from him. >> >> "Lelyveld asks me what I think of Gandhi's relationship with Kallenbach >> and I say, 'It is almost like a couple'. The two had a deep bond that >> borders on attraction of platonic kind. Joseph is not talking about what the >> reviewers are claiming," Suhrud says. He explains that in the late 19th >> century and early 20th century men addressed each other in a way that can be >> construed now as lovers. >> >> He gives the instance of letters between Rabindranath Tagore and CF >> Andrews. "Andrews wrote to Tagore in a manner that might raise eyebrows >> today. But the context was different then as also the usage of words. Tagore >> addressed him as Charlie," Suhrud says. He also says reviewers claim that >> the book portrays Gandhi as a racist is factually incorrect. In fact, he >> says, the book chronicles his work with Zulus as well during the Boer War >> where he took up the cause of the blacks. >> >> Suhrud goes on to give full marks to Lelyveld and the book. He says it is >> the first political biography of Gandhi by an expert on apartheid. "It is a >> fascinating work. Lelyveld shows there is continuity in Gandhi as well as >> major points of departure. Gandhi of South Africa was not the same as Gandhi >> of Sabarmati ashram. And Gandhi of Sabarmati was not the same after Dandi >> March." Lelyveld agrees: "The aim of 'Great Soul' is to sift the evidence >> and facts of Gandhi's life and discuss them in a careful, responsible and >> balanced way." >> > > > > -- > Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi > Head, Dept of Darshanas, > Yoganandacharya Bhavan, > Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post > Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026. > > ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ????????? > ??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ??????????????? > ?????????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? > ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From veerankp at GMAIL.COM Mon Apr 4 09:07:55 2011 From: veerankp at GMAIL.COM (Veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 11 14:37:55 +0530 Subject: Gandhi racist and bisexual? (was Rajiv Malhotra and the Infinity Foundation) In-Reply-To: <4D8474B6-F623-43B4-8A08-B71337111A2F@ubc.ca> Message-ID: <161227092112.23782.10794209616017711239.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4863 Lines: 96 I do not understand the title of message which clubbed gandhi and malhotra. is it a mistake or some message is hidden? On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Ashok Aklujkar wrote: > On 2011-03-29, at 1:25 AM, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE wrote: > > > A new biography of Gandhi (extracts in the Wall Street Journal) describes > him as a racist and bisexual. > > Compare: > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Outrage-over-reviews-of-new-Gandhi-book/articleshow/7811322.cms > > NEW DELHI: Thousands of books have been written on Mahatma Gandhi with each > new one claiming to have discovered an unknown facet of his eventful life. > When reviews of Pulitzer prizewinner Joseph Lelyveld's "Great Soul: Mahatma > Gandhi and His Struggle with India" hit the newspapers in England and US > claiming that the book says Gandhi was a bisexual and had a German-Jewish > bodybuilder lover in Hermann Kallenbach it created immediate sensation. > > But as the Daily Mail's review of the book created a storm in cyberspace, > there was a barrage of protests not just from Gandhians who said this was > "blasphemy", but from the book's author himself who denied having suggested > anything of the sort. > > Lelyveld told TOI, "I do not allege that Gandhi is a racist or bisexual in > 'Great Soul'. The word 'bisexual' nowhere appears in the book." He also > denied having called Gandhi a racist. "The word 'racist' is used once to > characterise comments by Gandhi early in his stay in South Africa, part of a > chapter summarising his statements about Africans and his relations with > them. The chapter in no way concludes that he was a racist or offers any > suggestion of it." > > Psychoanalyst Sudhir Kakar, one of the first to write on Gandhi's sexuality > in 'Intimate Relations: Exploring Indian Sexuality' and later in 'Mira and > Mahatma', is yet to read the book but has gone through an ocean of archives > on Gandhi and says he never discovered anything that the reviewers claim the > book consists of. > > Kakar remembers finding references to Kallenbach during his research but > not the way the reviewers have portrayed it. He says if the book has what > reviewers claim then it is plain "stupid." "Gandhi always talked of complete > love but it was of platonic kind," he says. Another eminent modern India > historian who has read the book said, "The reviews are by Churchill fans and > rightwingers." The Mahatma's grandson Gopal Gandhi said, "I will not comment > till I read the book." > > But Gandhian scholar Tridip Suhrud, author of books like 'The Autobiography > of The Story of My Experiments With Truth' not only interacted with Lelyveld > when he was researching the book but has also read it. He is aghast with the > reviews and swears by Lelyveld. Suhrud says the section on Kallenbach begins > with a quote from him. > > "Lelyveld asks me what I think of Gandhi's relationship with Kallenbach and > I say, 'It is almost like a couple'. The two had a deep bond that borders on > attraction of platonic kind. Joseph is not talking about what the reviewers > are claiming," Suhrud says. He explains that in the late 19th century and > early 20th century men addressed each other in a way that can be construed > now as lovers. > > He gives the instance of letters between Rabindranath Tagore and CF > Andrews. "Andrews wrote to Tagore in a manner that might raise eyebrows > today. But the context was different then as also the usage of words. Tagore > addressed him as Charlie," Suhrud says. He also says reviewers claim that > the book portrays Gandhi as a racist is factually incorrect. In fact, he > says, the book chronicles his work with Zulus as well during the Boer War > where he took up the cause of the blacks. > > Suhrud goes on to give full marks to Lelyveld and the book. He says it is > the first political biography of Gandhi by an expert on apartheid. "It is a > fascinating work. Lelyveld shows there is continuity in Gandhi as well as > major points of departure. Gandhi of South Africa was not the same as Gandhi > of Sabarmati ashram. And Gandhi of Sabarmati was not the same after Dandi > March." Lelyveld agrees: "The aim of 'Great Soul' is to sift the evidence > and facts of Gandhi's life and discuss them in a careful, responsible and > balanced way." > -- Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi Head, Dept of Darshanas, Yoganandacharya Bhavan, Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026. ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ????????? ??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ??????????????? ?????????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Apr 4 16:00:59 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 11 18:00:59 +0200 Subject: 3 doctoral grants, Univ. of Vienna, Himalayan studies Message-ID: <161227092119.23782.16730393756437193257.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 894 Lines: 31 2nd Round "Cultural Transfers in the Himalayas" Doctoral Program --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Martin Gaenszle Date: 4 April 2011 11:59 Subject: 2nd Round "Cultural Transfers in the Himalayas" Announcement University of Vienna, Faculty of Philological and Cultural Studies, Faculty of Historical and Cultural Studies, Faculty of Social Sciences, Faculty of Earth Sciences, Geography and Astronomy 2nd Round The Doctoral College (Initiativkolleg) ?Cultural Transfers and Cross-Contacts in the Himalayan Borderlands? announces the award of 3 doctoral student positions beginning June 1, 2011. see: http://tinyurl.com/3b4bujk (scroll down for English version) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Apr 4 16:13:02 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 11 18:13:02 +0200 Subject: 3 doctoral grants, Univ. of Vienna, Himalayan studies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092123.23782.6697264670502341256.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1456 Lines: 49 For some, the tinyurl link didn't work. Here's the full link: https://univis.univie.ac.at/ausschreibungstellensuche/flow/bew_ausschreibung-flow?_flowExecutionKey=_c1C4AE131-8324-B0E4-71C5-B4871F314B5B_kF55E4F24-0AA5-295F-6402-27366380A704&tid=30625.28 Both the long version above, and the tinyurl, work for me. If you have problems, please contact Prof. Martin Gaenszle at the email address below. Best, Dominik INDOLOGY committee. On 4 April 2011 18:00, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > 2nd Round "Cultural Transfers in the Himalayas" Doctoral Program > > --------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Martin Gaenszle > Date: 4 April 2011 11:59 > Subject: 2nd Round "Cultural Transfers in the Himalayas" > > > Announcement > > University of Vienna, > Faculty of Philological and Cultural Studies, Faculty of Historical and > Cultural Studies, Faculty of Social Sciences, Faculty of Earth Sciences, > Geography and Astronomy > > 2nd Round > > The Doctoral College (Initiativkolleg) > > ?Cultural Transfers and Cross-Contacts in the Himalayan Borderlands? > > announces the award of 3 doctoral student positions > beginning June 1, 2011. > > > see: http://tinyurl.com/3b4bujk (scroll down for English version) > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From utkragh at HUM.KU.DK Tue Apr 5 06:26:45 2011 From: utkragh at HUM.KU.DK (Ulrich T. Kragh) Date: Tue, 05 Apr 11 08:26:45 +0200 Subject: Possibility to learn Prakrits and Apabhramsa Message-ID: <161227092126.23782.7929358231454939370.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3291 Lines: 19 Dear Colleagues, As you may be unaware of this program, I wish to draw your attention to the excellent courses in Prakrits and Apabhramsa offered since 2006 at the Apabhramsa Sahitya Academy run by the Shri Digambar Jain Atishaya Ksetra Shri Mahavir-ji Trust located in Jaipur, India. The courses are tailored especially to the needs of foreign students and new text-books have been published by the academy to teach these languages in English. A unique feature is that the courses and books require no prior knowledge of Sanskrit, thereby making the material highly accessible even to the beginner student. The Prakrits (including Shauraseni, Ardhamagadhi, and Maharasthri) and Apabhramsa are essential languages for reading the vast corpus of Jain scriptures and later Prakrit and Apabhramsa texts. They are also helpful companion-languages for studying other types of literature written in Indian vernaculars, such as the Buddhist Pali texts, Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit works, the various passages in Prakrit occurring in Indian drama-texts, Hindi literature, or texts written in the many other North Indian vernaculars. They also offer a good basis for learning Sanskrit. The classes are taught by Ms. Shakuntala Jain under the supervision of Dr. Kamal Chand Sogani, retired Professor of Philosophy from Udaipur University and director of the Apabhramsa Sahitya Academy. Professor Sogani is the author of the text-books and the director of the program. The classes are offered in English on an individual basis according to need, and it is therefore possible for students or scholars to visit the academy any time all year round to take classes, or alternatively to study the books as a correspondence course via email. It is also possible to combine a stay at the academy with an ensuing correspondence course. A full course in the Prakrits takes about two months at the school with daily classes, but intensified study of one month or shorter is also possible. The pedagogical principle behind the program is not memorization but rather extensive written homework of manifold exercises that enable efficient learning. Exercises can be done either in English transliteration or in Devanagari. The courses are university approved but do not currently give university credit abroad. The academy also offers certificate and diploma correspondence courses in Prakrits and Apabhramsa for Hindi speakers. The academy, which is centrally located in Jaipur, offers simple but very pleasant lodging at a reasonable rate. Food is taken at separate cost in local, inexpensive eateries and restaurants. For participation in classes, students this year pay a small tuition fee of Indian Rs. 3000 per month (circa 67 USD) or Rs. 1000 per week (ca. 22 USD) for shorter periods, plus the very affordable cost of the text books. I have taken the courses myself and find them highly recommendable. Any student or scholar wishing to obtain more information concerning the courses, textbooks, or logistics is welcome to contact me by email utkragh at hum.ku.dk Sincerely, Tim Dr. Ulrich Timme Kragh -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martin.gansten at PBHOME.SE Wed Apr 6 11:28:54 2011 From: martin.gansten at PBHOME.SE (Martin Gansten) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 11 13:28:54 +0200 Subject: Persian and Arabic borrowings in Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <91c4290f77ddc5ea8cd201210871c1c7.squirrel@squirrelmail.gigahost.dk> Message-ID: <161227092129.23782.1924972531363169532.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 248 Lines: 9 I am looking for lists of Persian and/or Arabic words borrowed into Sanskrit during the Islamic period. I am particularly interested in the sound changes implied by the Sanskritized forms. All suggestions gratefully accepted. Martin Gansten From jkirk at SPRO.NET Wed Apr 6 20:03:40 2011 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 11 14:03:40 -0600 Subject: FW: [INDOLOGY] Buddhist monasticism Message-ID: <161227092158.23782.7550876207625679480.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 396 Lines: 15 An excellent study reflecting, among other things, the student's particular focus is: _Being a Buddhist Nun: The Struggle for Enlightenment in the Himalayas._ By Kim Gutschow. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 2004. 333 pages. Cloth. ISBN 0-674-01287-9 Gutschow not only studied nun culture but monk culture as well, and the interactions between these groups. Joanna Kirkpatrick From klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI Wed Apr 6 11:36:16 2011 From: klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI (Klaus Karttunen) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 11 14:36:16 +0300 Subject: Persian and Arabic borrowings in Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <4D9C4E76.6020005@pbhome.se> Message-ID: <161227092132.23782.9181558946063362561.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 930 Lines: 28 Warder (Kavya 7, 515) in his summary of Jayasimha's Hamm?ramadamardana mentions Bagad?di and its ruler khal?pa. Long ago I read somewhere that there is an Allah-Upanisad. Best, Klaus Klaus Karttunen Professor of South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674 Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094 Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi On Apr 6, 2011, at 2:28 PM, Martin Gansten wrote: > I am looking for lists of Persian and/or Arabic words borrowed into Sanskrit during the Islamic period. I am particularly interested in the sound changes implied by the Sanskritized forms. All suggestions gratefully accepted. > > Martin Gansten > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI Wed Apr 6 12:16:01 2011 From: asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI (Asko Parpola) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 11 15:16:01 +0300 Subject: Persian and Arabic borrowings in Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <4D9C4E76.6020005@pbhome.se> Message-ID: <161227092134.23782.275679894328975542.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1089 Lines: 30 You could check the following grammar of Persian in Sanskrit from c 1600 CE: Weber, Albrecht, 1887. ?ber den P?ras?prak??a des K?ish?ad?sa. Abhandlungen der K?niglichen Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin, Aus dem Jahre 1887, Abhandlungen der Philosophisch-historischen Classe, I: 1-121. Berlin, 1888. Reviewed: George A. Grierson, The Indian Antiquary 17 (1888): 273-274. Weber, Albrecht, 1889. ?ber den zweiten, grammatischen, P?ras?prak??a des K?ish?ad?sa. Abhandlungen der K?niglichen Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin, Aus dem Jahre 1888, Abhandlungen der Philosophisch-historischen Classe, III: 1-91. Berlin, 1889. Reviewed: A. de Gubernatis, Giornale della Societ? Asiatica Italiana 3 (1889): 189-190. With best regards, Asko Parpola Quoting "Martin Gansten" : > I am looking for lists of Persian and/or Arabic words borrowed into > Sanskrit during the Islamic period. I am particularly interested in > the sound changes implied by the Sanskritized forms. All suggestions > gratefully accepted. > > Martin Gansten > > From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Wed Apr 6 14:21:45 2011 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 11 16:21:45 +0200 Subject: Persian and Arabic borrowings in Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <20110406151601.1879644l8ftksw3l.aparpola@webmail.helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <161227092137.23782.17987326227355026564.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2180 Lines: 56 Am 06.04.2011 14:16, schrieb Asko Parpola: > You could check the following grammar of Persian in Sanskrit from c > 1600 CE: > > Weber, Albrecht, 1887. ?ber den P?ras?prak??a des K?ish?ad?sa. > Abhandlungen der K?niglichen Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin, > Aus dem Jahre 1887, Abhandlungen der Philosophisch-historischen > Classe, I: 1-121. Berlin, 1888. > Reviewed: George A. Grierson, The Indian Antiquary 17 (1888): 273-274. This one is available online: > > Weber, Albrecht, 1889. ?ber den zweiten, grammatischen, P?ras?prak??a > des K?ish?ad?sa. Abhandlungen der K?niglichen Akademie der > Wissenschaften zu Berlin, Aus dem Jahre 1888, Abhandlungen der > Philosophisch-historischen Classe, III: 1-91. Berlin, 1889. > Reviewed: A. de Gubernatis, Giornale della Societ? Asiatica Italiana 3 > (1889): 189-190. Online version is available under: > > Quoting "Martin Gansten" : > >> I am looking for lists of Persian and/or Arabic words borrowed into >> Sanskrit during the Islamic period. I am particularly interested in >> the sound changes implied by the Sanskritized forms. All suggestions >> gratefully accepted. There is an article by Suniti Kumar Chatterji: Some Iranian and Turki loans in Sanskrit. - In: Shahidulla presentation volume / ed. By Anwar S. Dil. - Lahore : Linguistic Research Group of Pakistan, 1966. - (Pakistan Linguistic Series ; 7) [not seen by me] Another article comes from Hassan Rezai Baghbidi: Iranian elements in Sanskrit. - In: Themes and tasks in Old and Middle Indo-Aryan linguistics / ed. by Bertil Tikkanen, Heinrich Hettrich. - Delhi : Motilal Banarsidass, 2006, p. 143-166 [with a list of loanwords] Among the dictionaries that may help to build a list of loanwords H. H. Wilson's Glossary of judicial and revenue terms (first publ. 1855) might be useful. Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 D-53113 Bonn From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Wed Apr 6 14:43:01 2011 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 11 16:43:01 +0200 Subject: Persian and Arabic borrowings in Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <4D9C76F9.4090109@uni-bonn.de> Message-ID: <161227092139.23782.9012174030617336562.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 174 Lines: 4 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX Thu Apr 7 00:51:10 2011 From: h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX (Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 11 17:51:10 -0700 Subject: Persian and Arabic borrowings in Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <4D9C4E76.6020005@pbhome.se> Message-ID: <161227092160.23782.17413267986435834004.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1230 Lines: 31 Dear Professor: There are many works copied and translate by the Arabic and Moghuls rulers in his lenguaje. One of the top is the Cadila ? Dymnah. This a Panchatantra arabic version,? Albert Schwitzer, in his classical Indian wisdon book quoted many? works like that. With my best wishes Lic. M.A. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez Doctorante y Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad Internacional Euroamericana. Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada. Miembro del Instituto de Estudios Filos?ficos de Saltillo A. C. www.uie.edu.es --- El mi? 6-abr-11, Martin Gansten escribi?: De: Martin Gansten Asunto: [INDOLOGY] Persian and Arabic borrowings in Sanskrit A: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Fecha: mi?rcoles, 6 de abril de 2011, 11:28 I am looking for lists of Persian and/or Arabic words borrowed into Sanskrit during the Islamic period. I am particularly interested in the sound changes implied by the Sanskritized forms. All suggestions gratefully accepted. Martin Gansten -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU Wed Apr 6 18:40:01 2011 From: tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU (Tracy Coleman) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 11 18:40:01 +0000 Subject: Buddhist monasticism Message-ID: <161227092148.23782.15619988890031965374.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 489 Lines: 11 Indologists-- I have a student interested in studying Buddhist male monasticism in the present day, preferably Tibetan Buddhism. She is especially interested in examining monasticism as male culture, so sources that explicitly treat gender would be most welcome. Ideally, she wants to look at contemporary monks, but studies of this sort that focus on monasticism in earlier historical periods would also be very helpful. Thanks for any suggestions. Tracy Coleman Colorado College From Joseph.Walser at TUFTS.EDU Wed Apr 6 18:57:46 2011 From: Joseph.Walser at TUFTS.EDU (Walser, Joseph) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 11 18:57:46 +0000 Subject: Buddhist monasticism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092150.23782.14152102427938335750.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1182 Lines: 28 I am using a book this semester that does explicitly treat contested masculinities in Tibetan monasticism in Gansu province China. The book is Charlene Makley's The Violence of Liberation: Gender and Tibetan Buddhist Revival in Post-Mao China. (University of California Press 2007). I am half way through and I have to say that my world is sufficiently rocked. Hope this helps, -j Joseph Walser Department of Religion 314 Eaton Hall Tufts University Medford MA, 02155 -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Tracy Coleman Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 2:40 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhist monasticism Indologists-- I have a student interested in studying Buddhist male monasticism in the present day, preferably Tibetan Buddhism. She is especially interested in examining monasticism as male culture, so sources that explicitly treat gender would be most welcome. Ideally, she wants to look at contemporary monks, but studies of this sort that focus on monasticism in earlier historical periods would also be very helpful. Thanks for any suggestions. Tracy Coleman Colorado College From tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU Wed Apr 6 19:51:21 2011 From: tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU (Tracy Coleman) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 11 19:51:21 +0000 Subject: Buddhist monasticism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092155.23782.6559929975379344624.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 553 Lines: 21 I should note that I'm already using Powers' book (suggested below) in my current class, and it's working very well. --Tracy ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of Artur Karp [karp at UW.EDU.PL] Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 1:49 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Buddhist monasticism Dear Tracy, John Powers' _A Bull of a Man. Images of Masculinity, Sex, and the Body in Indian Buddhism_, Harvard University Press, 2009. Cheers, Artur Karp Warsaw, Poland From martin.gansten at PBHOME.SE Wed Apr 6 18:03:35 2011 From: martin.gansten at PBHOME.SE (Martin Gansten) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 11 20:03:35 +0200 Subject: Persian and Arabic borrowings in Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <1Q7Twj-0v2p2u0@fwd09.aul.t-online.de> Message-ID: <161227092145.23782.15391777159094211676.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 721 Lines: 21 Many thanks to all who responded to my query so far. I have consulted Weber's work, and now find that I need to qualify my original question somewhat. Weber (1887: 21) gives a list of Sanskritization of Persian phonemes in the P?ras?prak??a (c. 1600). However, this list does not quite tally with the examples I have seen in Sanskrit astrological works dating (probably) from the 13th century or earlier. One obvious possible explanation is that pronunciation had changed over the intervening centuries. My modified question, therefore, must be: what are the earliest documented examples (preferably lists) of Sanskritized Persian or Arabic words after, say, 1000 CE? Vidvajjanaday?p?tram, Martin Gansten From karp at UW.EDU.PL Wed Apr 6 19:49:32 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 11 21:49:32 +0200 Subject: Buddhist monasticism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092153.23782.16685082168036632799.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 179 Lines: 14 Dear Tracy, John Powers' _A Bull of a Man. Images of Masculinity, Sex, and the Body in Indian Buddhism_, Harvard University Press, 2009. Cheers, Artur Karp Warsaw, Poland From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Wed Apr 6 17:02:52 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 11 22:32:52 +0530 Subject: Persian and Arabic borrowings in Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <1Q7Twj-0v2p2u0@fwd09.aul.t-online.de> Message-ID: <161227092142.23782.5454626444402686817.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4376 Lines: 229 I do not know if any body has pointed out the following fact. As reported in Vibh?tibh??a?a-Bha???c?rya?s edition published by the Sampurnand Sanskrit University the author of ?the Pas?kaprak??a was Viharik???a Mi?ra. I vaguely remember this topic having been raised long ago in this Forum. Best DB --- On Wed, 6/4/11, Walter Slaje wrote: From: Walter Slaje Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Persian and Arabic borrowings in Sanskrit To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 6 April, 2011, 2:43 PM Weber had however failed to recognize the tradition of Sankrit grammar K???ad?sa was following and the technical terminology he used when composing his Persian grammar. Therefore Weber misjudged K???ad?sa's achievements and his basic insights into the structure of Persian grammar (cp., e.g., his clear differentiation of the system of the Persian perfect stems) . For details, see W. Slaje, Der P?ras?prak??a: ?ber das indische Modell f?r K???ad?sas per?si?sche Gram???matik aus der Mo?ulzeit. In: ?Ak?ten des Mel?zer-Sym?po??si?ums 1991?, Graz 1992, S. 243-273. Best, WS ------------------------------------------------------------- Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. -----Original Message----- > Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 16:21:45 +0200 > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Persian and Arabic borrowings in Sanskrit > From: ? ? ? ? Peter Wyzlic > To: ? ? ? ? ? INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Am 06.04.2011 14:16, schrieb Asko Parpola: > > You could check the following grammar of Persian in Sanskrit from c > > 1600 CE: > > > > > > Weber, Albrecht, 1887. ??ber den P??ras??prak????a des > > K???ish???ad??sa. > > Abhandlungen der K??niglichen Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin, > > Aus dem Jahre 1887, Abhandlungen der Philosophisch-historischen > > Classe, I: 1-121. Berlin, 1888. > > Reviewed: George A. Grierson, The Indian Antiquary 17 (1888): > > 273-274. > > > > This one is available online: > > > > > Weber, Albrecht, 1889. ??ber den zweiten, grammatischen, > > P??ras??prak????a des K???ish???ad??sa. Abhandlungen der > > K??niglichen Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin, Aus dem Jahre > > 1888, Abhandlungen der Philosophisch-historischen Classe, III: 1-91. > > Berlin, 1889. > > Reviewed: A. de Gubernatis, Giornale della Societ? ?Asiatica > > Italiana 3 (1889): 189-190. > > > Online version is available under: > > > > > > > Quoting "Martin Gansten" : > > > >> I am looking for lists of Persian and/or Arabic words borrowed into > >> Sanskrit during the Islamic period. I am particularly interested in > >> the sound changes implied by the Sanskritized forms. All > suggestions >> gratefully accepted. > > There is an article by Suniti Kumar Chatterji: Some Iranian and Turki > loans in Sanskrit. - In: ?Shahidulla presentation volume / ed. By > Anwar S. Dil. - Lahore : Linguistic Research Group of Pakistan, 1966. > - (Pakistan Linguistic Series ; 7) [not seen by me] > > Another article comes from Hassan Rezai Baghbidi: Iranian elements in > Sanskrit. - In: Themes and tasks in Old and Middle Indo-Aryan > linguistics / ed. by Bertil Tikkanen, Heinrich Hettrich. - Delhi : > Motilal Banarsidass, 2006, p. 143-166 [with a list of loanwords] > Among the dictionaries that may help to build a list of loanwords H. > H. > Wilson's Glossary of judicial and revenue terms (first publ. 1855) > might be useful. > > Hope it helps > Peter Wyzlic > > -- > Institut f??r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften > Bibliothek > Universit??t Bonn > Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 > D-53113 Bonn > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Thu Apr 7 08:00:39 2011 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 11 03:00:39 -0500 Subject: Persian and Arabic borrowings in Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <20110406151601.1879644l8ftksw3l.aparpola@webmail.helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <161227092166.23782.11524554383569791564.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 446 Lines: 16 No one seems to have mentioned the Sanskrit trans. of Prince Dara Shukoh's Majma ul-Bahrain, i.e., the Samudrasamaagamana. It has been published a couple of times, though, I am now traveling and do not have the precise references at hand. It should be not difficult to find. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Thu Apr 7 04:45:47 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 11 10:15:47 +0530 Subject: Persian and Arabic borrowings in Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <4D9CAAF7.2090205@pbhome.se> Message-ID: <161227092163.23782.2394410906275284639.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1453 Lines: 39 7 4 11 If the following books with Sanskritised Arabic/Persian terms have already been mentioned, this note may be ignored. Ukr?, Hayata, Yantrar?javi???dhy?y? All these were published by the Sampurnanand Sanskrit University. The first two were edited by Vibhhutibhushan Bhattachacharya Best DB --- On Wed, 6/4/11, Martin Gansten wrote: From: Martin Gansten Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Persian and Arabic borrowings in Sanskrit To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 6 April, 2011, 6:03 PM Many thanks to all who responded to my query so far. I have consulted Weber's work, and now find that I need to qualify my original question somewhat. Weber (1887: 21) gives a list of Sanskritization of Persian phonemes in the P?ras?prak??a (c. 1600). However, this list does not quite tally with the examples I have seen in Sanskrit astrological works dating (probably) from the 13th century or earlier. One obvious possible explanation is that pronunciation had changed over the intervening centuries. My modified question, therefore, must be: what are the earliest documented examples (preferably lists) of Sanskritized Persian or Arabic words after, say, 1000 CE? Vidvajjanaday?p?tram, Martin Gansten -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Thu Apr 7 09:31:37 2011 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 11 11:31:37 +0200 Subject: Persian and Arabic borrowings in Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <20110407030039.ALD32233@mstore02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227092168.23782.14335190747869815945.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 174 Lines: 4 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK Thu Apr 7 11:13:00 2011 From: wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK (Whitney Cox) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 11 12:13:00 +0100 Subject: upcoming stays in Chennai? Message-ID: <161227092182.23782.5039273725641345616.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 541 Lines: 23 Dear list members, If anyone on the list or their colleagues happen to be planning an extended stay in Chennai in the near future, could he or she please contact me off-list, Thanks, Whitney Cox -- Dr. Whitney Cox Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, School of Oriental and African Studies Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square London WC1H 0XG -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zysk at HUM.KU.DK Thu Apr 7 11:03:40 2011 From: zysk at HUM.KU.DK (Kenneth Zysk) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 11 13:03:40 +0200 Subject: Help with Text 1 Message-ID: <161227092172.23782.5026657080606565560.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 710 Lines: 20 I should greatly appreciate it if anyone could help with the content of this text in Gujarati. I send two images in two files. Many thanks, Ken Kenneth Zysk, PhD, DPhil Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Asian Studies Section Artillerivej 86 DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark Ph: +45 3532 8951 Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Text12.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 160895 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zysk at HUM.KU.DK Thu Apr 7 11:04:15 2011 From: zysk at HUM.KU.DK (Kenneth Zysk) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 11 13:04:15 +0200 Subject: Help with text 2 Message-ID: <161227092178.23782.11430498273211053342.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 570 Lines: 16 Text 2 Kenneth Zysk, PhD, DPhil Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Asian Studies Section Artillerivej 86 DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark Ph: +45 3532 8951 Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: text2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 128206 bytes Desc: not available URL: From harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Apr 7 19:49:37 2011 From: harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM (Harsha Dehejia) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 11 15:49:37 -0400 Subject: Body and Mind Message-ID: <161227092184.23782.12032821653543519688.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 460 Lines: 18 Friends~ I need a sentence or two in Sanskrit which expresses the basic idea that the body and mind are a continuum. Any help would be hugely appreciated. Regards. Harsha Prof. Harsha V. Dehejia Proessor of Indian Studies, Carleton University Ottawa, ON., Canada. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET Thu Apr 7 20:05:34 2011 From: cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET (George Cardona) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 11 16:05:34 -0400 Subject: change of address Message-ID: <161227092187.23782.1791938369278390905.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 144 Lines: 4 Please change my email address to the following: cardonagj at verizon.net. The change is effective immediately. Thank you. George Cardona From drdavis at WISC.EDU Fri Apr 8 14:39:25 2011 From: drdavis at WISC.EDU (Donald R Davis Jr) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 11 09:39:25 -0500 Subject: Article by Burton Stein Message-ID: <161227092191.23782.11552485030448632723.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 329 Lines: 14 If anyone happens to have a copy of the following article in pdf, I would appreciate a copy. Stein, Burton. "Early Indian Historiography: A Conspiracy Hypothesis." Indian Economic Social History Review March 1969 vol. 6 no. 1, 41-59. Thanks, Don Davis Dept of Languages & Cultures of Asia University of Wisconsin-Madison From drdavis at WISC.EDU Fri Apr 8 16:21:20 2011 From: drdavis at WISC.EDU (Donald R Davis Jr) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 11 11:21:20 -0500 Subject: Stein Article Received Message-ID: <161227092194.23782.6717673535772643944.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 130 Lines: 9 Dear All, Thanks to the typically speedy response of members of this list, I have now received the Stein article. Best, Don From whitakjl at WFU.EDU Sun Apr 10 18:02:43 2011 From: whitakjl at WFU.EDU (Jarrod L Whitaker) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 11 14:02:43 -0400 Subject: Book Announcement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092200.23782.7898867088871811646.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 808 Lines: 30 Dear All: It is with great pleasure that I announce the publication of my monograph: Jarrod L. Whitaker. /Strong Arms and Drinking Strength: Masculinity, Violence, and the Body in Ancient India /(Oxford University Press, 2011). ISBN13: 9780199755707; ISBN10: 0199755701. Hardback, 240 pages. http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/ReligionTheology/Hinduism/?view=usa&ci=9780199755707 With warmest regards JLW -- Jarrod L. Whitaker, Ph.D. Assistant Professor, South Asian Religions Wake Forest University Department of Religion P.O. Box 7212 Winston-Salem, NC 27109 whitakjl at wfu.edu p 336.758.4162 f 336.758.4462 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shrimaitreya at GMAIL.COM Sun Apr 10 12:38:47 2011 From: shrimaitreya at GMAIL.COM ((Maitreya) Borayin Larios) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 11 14:38:47 +0200 Subject: Da=?UTF-8?Q?=C5=9Bagrantha?= Message-ID: <161227092197.23782.17918338171041199053.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1406 Lines: 35 Dear list, In my research on the Vedic schools of Mah?r???ra I have come across the claim from many ?gvedins reciters that they study the so-called* Da?agrantha *s as their curriculum. These ten 'books' are: Sa?hit?, Br?hma?a, ?ra?yaka, ?ik??, Kalpa, Vy?kara?a, Nigha??u, Nirukta, Chandas and Jyoti?a. An alternative list include the pada and krama (recitations), instead of Nigha??u and ?ra?yaka but give the list in a slight different order. Someone who claims to master these "ten books" is entitled to the name da?agranthin/da?agranth?. Does anyone here know how this particular list came to be put together? Why are these the "ten books of the ?gveda"? Does anyone know of a ?gvedin who actually recites all these texts from memory? It seems that today it has become not more than a prestigious title (and a inherited family name) without the actual knowledge it is supposed to designate. Any clues and suggestions towards more clarity on the subject would be much appreciated. Greetings, ______________________________ (Maitreya) Borayin Larios J?gerpfad 13 69118 Heidelberg Germany Mobile:(+49)1707366232 http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/mitarbeiter/larios/larios.php http://www.flickr.com/photos/shrimaitreya/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From baums at BERKELEY.EDU Sun Apr 10 22:45:12 2011 From: baums at BERKELEY.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 11 15:45:12 -0700 Subject: Dunyotepa potsherd Message-ID: <161227092203.23782.5761052626054186180.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2413 Lines: 66 Dear Indologists, as I am working to complete the coverage of potsherd inscriptions in the Catalog of G?ndh?r? Texts: http://gandhari.org/catalog/ I have run up against one hard?to?obtain item. This is a potsherd discovered in 1936 at Dunyotepa near Termez by M. E. Masson. It contains an inscription interpreted as Kharo??h? (though doubts on this point have recently been raised by Viktoriia Vertogradova), which would make it the earliest discovery of Indian writing in Middle Asia (??????? ????) / northern Bactria. I have the following brief discussions of this item: ?. ?. ?????????????????????, 1976. ???????? ??????? ????????? ?? ??????? ????????? ?? ???????????????.? ??????? ??????? ??????? 135: 72?79. (p. 72) ?. ?. ????????????. 1998. ???????? ??????????? ?????????? ?????????? ?????????? ? ??????? ????.? In: ?. ?. ?????????, ed., ?????? ???????? ? ??????? ????: ?? ?????? ??????????. ???????? ??????? ???????: ????????? ? ????????????, pp. 199?205. ??????: ???????????? ????? ?????????? ??????????? ???. (p. 199 and p. 204 n. 1) but have so far not been able to procure the original publication and illustration of the potsherd by Masson in: ?. ?. ??????. 1941. ???????? ??????? ??????? ? ?? ????????. ????? ??. ???, ???. 1, ???. 2, ?????????? ??????????????? ??????????? ?????????? 1938 ?. ??????? 1941. M. E. Masson. 1941. Gorodishcha Starogo Termeza i ikh izuchenie. Trudy Uz. FAN, ser. 1, vyp. 2, Termezskaia arkheologicheskaia kompleksnaia ekspeditsiia 1938 g. Tashkent 1941. The publication series in question appears to be the Proceedings of the Tashkent Branch of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR, and according to WorldCat parts of this are available in Munich, at Harvard and in Illinois: http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/644357969 http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/44859263 http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/6005762 but when I tried Interlibrary loan, my request was returned with the note that ?the two [US?] libraries which own the title do not have the volume needed.? Therefore now my request to any kind soul out there who may have easier access to this publication, maybe in Eastern European or Russian libraries where I imagine it is not all that rare (just not aggregated in WorldCat), to please contact me. All best wishes, Stefan -- Dr. Stefan Baums Group in Buddhist Studies University of California, Berkeley From harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM Mon Apr 11 11:49:35 2011 From: harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM (Harsha Dehejia) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 11 07:49:35 -0400 Subject: Body and Mind Message-ID: <161227092210.23782.9160074740056995428.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 533 Lines: 20 Friends~ Many thanks to those responded to my earlier query. In Alankarshastra and Shringara kavya there is an implicit connection with adornment, the landsacpe and the romantic emotion. The body therefore in an integral part of the mind in this tradition. Kind regards. Harsha Harsha V. Dehejia Carrleton University, Ottawa, ON., Canada. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From baums at BERKELEY.EDU Mon Apr 11 19:34:00 2011 From: baums at BERKELEY.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 11 12:34:00 -0700 Subject: Dunyotepa potsherd In-Reply-To: <20110410224512.GI3186@deepthought> Message-ID: <161227092219.23782.16377588455556649788.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 646 Lines: 25 Dear all, thanks to the good offices of Harry Falk, a copy of the needed article has reached me from Uzbekistan. Many thanks to him and Asko Parpola for their help. I stand in renewed awe of the helpfulness and magic of the members of this list. The potsherd turns out to be small, but certainly looks like Kharo??h?, and Masson?s reading of the term vihara in it http://gandhari.org/a_inscription.php?catid=CKI0713 appears to be correct (although the vi is a bit tilted, and the name of the monastery is unfortunately not preserved). All best, Stefan -- Dr. Stefan Baums Group in Buddhist Studies University of California, Berkeley From vjroebuck at BTINTERNET.COM Mon Apr 11 13:14:33 2011 From: vjroebuck at BTINTERNET.COM (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 11 14:14:33 +0100 Subject: STIMW Programme Message-ID: <161227092214.23782.6393882006598286208.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1604 Lines: 51 Dear Colleagues This is the programme for this year's STIMW Seminar. NOTE: Please do not contact me about registration: I am just sending the information on behalf of the organizers. Thank you! Valerie J Roebuck 28th Annual STIMW Seminar Fri 27 May 2011 10.45 a.m. - 5.00 p.m. Martin Harris Centre, G16, University of Manchester Programme 10.45-11.10 Coffee and registration 11.15-12.00 Simon Brodbeck (Cardiff University) ?The ancient Indian R?jas?ya revisited? 12.00-12.45 Lynn Thomas (Roehampton University, London) ?The duties of the king and the welfare of the citizens: issues of human rights in the Mah?bh?rata?s R?jadharmaparvan? Discussant for both: Brian Black 12.45-1.55 Lunch 2.00-2.45 Suresh Kolichala (Atlanta, Georgia) ?Interaction between orality and literacy in the composition of the Bhagavad-G?t?? Discussant: Jacqueline Suthren Hirst 2.45-3.30 Michael Williams (University of Manchester) ?Ancient Indian Techno-Babble: translating Navya-Ny?ya texts for modern audiences? Discussant: Hazel Collinson 3.30-4.00 Tea 4.00-4.45 Klaus Bung (Institute for Dynamic Language Learning) ?Principles of an algorithm which facilitates the learning of Sanskrit? Discussant: Dermot Killingley 4.45-5.00 STIMW 2012 For further details, please see http://www.arts.manchester.ac.uk/stimw or contact jacqueline.hirst at manchester.ac.uk To book, please print out, complete and post registration form. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vjroebuck at BTINTERNET.COM Mon Apr 11 15:28:27 2011 From: vjroebuck at BTINTERNET.COM (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 11 16:28:27 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: [INDOLOGY] STIMW Programme] In-Reply-To: <34860.71.65.223.236.1302528565.squirrel@webmail.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: <161227092216.23782.17436261707605415582.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2351 Lines: 80 I should perhaps have said that STIMW is 'Sanskritic Tradition in the Modern World'. Valerie J Roebuck On 11 Apr 2011, at 14:29, phitks at ncsu.edu wrote: > Perhaps for those of us who cannot keep thousands of acronyms actively > accessible you might spell out what STIMW means? Others probably know > which is why I'm responding offline. > > Thanks, > Tony K Stewart > Professor of South Asian Religions & Literatures > North Carolina State University > > ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- > Subject: [INDOLOGY] STIMW Programme > From: "Valerie J Roebuck" > Date: Mon, April 11, 2011 9:14 am > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Dear Colleagues > > This is the programme for this year's STIMW Seminar. > > NOTE: Please do not contact me about registration: I am just sending the > information on behalf of the organizers. > > Thank you! > > Valerie J Roebuck > > > 28th Annual STIMW Seminar > Fri 27 May 2011 10.45 a.m. - 5.00 p.m. > Martin Harris Centre, G16, University of Manchester > > Programme > > 10.45-11.10 Coffee and registration > > 11.15-12.00 Simon Brodbeck (Cardiff University) > ?The ancient Indian R?jas?ya revisited? > > 12.00-12.45 Lynn Thomas (Roehampton University, London) ?The duties of > the king and the welfare of the citizens: issues of human rights in the > Mah?bh?rata?s R?jadharmaparvan? > Discussant for both: Brian Black > > 12.45-1.55 Lunch > > 2.00-2.45 Suresh Kolichala (Atlanta, Georgia) ?Interaction between > orality and literacy in the composition of the Bhagavad-G?t?? > Discussant: Jacqueline Suthren Hirst > > 2.45-3.30 Michael Williams (University of Manchester) ?Ancient Indian > Techno-Babble: translating Navya-Ny?ya texts for modern audiences? > Discussant: Hazel Collinson > > 3.30-4.00 Tea > > 4.00-4.45 Klaus Bung (Institute for Dynamic Language Learning) > ?Principles of an algorithm which facilitates the learning of > Sanskrit? > Discussant: Dermot Killingley > > > 4.45-5.00 STIMW 2012 > > > For further details, please see http://www.arts.manchester.ac.uk/stimw or > contact jacqueline.hirst at manchester.ac.uk > > To book, please print out, complete and post registration form. > > From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Mon Apr 11 11:22:59 2011 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 11 16:52:59 +0530 Subject: Body and Mind In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092206.23782.8484963206506287672.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4025 Lines: 67 Forwarded message from Alex Watson (alex_watson_uk at yahoo.co.uk) Dear Prof. Dehejia If you mean by mind what is referred to in the Brahmanical schools (or in ?aivism) as sa?vit, sa?vedana, cit, cetan?, caitanya, j??na etc. (consiousness, cognition), I doubt you will find such a statement since the view is that these are ontologically utterly distinct from the body. If you mean by mind what the Naiy?yikas and Vai?e?ikas term the manas (a faculty of attention that provides a link between the self and the particular sense faculty whose data is being attended to), this was not regarded as forming a `continuum' with the body in any usual sense of that term. The four mental skandhas in Buddhism are not usually characterised as forming a continuum with the r?paskandha, but rather a conglomerate (samud?ya) or a causal complex (s?magr?). If you mean the buddhi or manas or aha?k?ra in S??khya, or the combination of all three, at least here they fall on the same side of the fundamental divide between puru?a and prak?ti, as does j??na according to this tradition. But your best bet may be C?rv?ka/Bh?tacaitanyav?da contexts: 1) Ontological Continuity One `C?rv?ka s?tra' was tebhya? caitanyam to which it is claimed (for example by Kamala??la and Prabh?candra) that commentators supplied either utpadyate or abhivyajyate, of which the former serves your purpose best: `Conscious emerges from the [material elements].' The Sarvadar?anasa?graha clarifies: tatra p?thivy?d?ni bh?t?ni catv?ri tattv?ni. tebhya eva deh?k?rapari?atebhya? ki?v?dibhyo mada?aktivac caitanyam upaj?yate. `There the elements, earth and [water, fire and air]' are the four tattvas. Consciousness emerges from them alone when they have been transformed into the form of a body, as alcohol's power to intoxicate emerges from ki?va [yeast, molasses] etc. [when they are mixed in suitable proportions, even though they are not intoxicating separately or when combined in the wrong proportions, just as matter is not conscious when not transformed into the shape of a body]. 2) Continuity in the sense of necessity of mutual influence Ny?yama?jar?, Vol II, p. 289, Mysore edition: nanu j??nam api tadanvayavyatirek?nuvidh?yi pr?ye?a d??yate. bh?te?v annap?n?dyupayogapu??e?u pa?v? cetan? bhavati, tadviparyaye viparyaya?. br?hm?gh?t?dyupayogasa?sk?te ca kum?ra?ar?re pa?upraj?at? j?yate. ... caitanye ca gurul?ghavavyavah?ro 'pi bh?t?ti?ayasadasattvak?to bhavi?yati. [C?rv?ka:] We can observe that for the most part consciousness conforms to positive and negative concomitance with the body. When the elements [in our body] are well nourished by the consuming of food and drink etc., consciousness becomes sharp; and when the elements are not nourished, the opposite kind of consciousness arises. And when the body of a young boy is purified by the eating of things like the ayurvedic concoction called br?hm?gh?ta, the boy becomes sharp-minded. ... And the linguistic usage of heaviness and lightness referring to consciousness can be caused by the existence or non-existence of excellence in the elements. 3) Continuity in the sense that mental attributes arise from physical attributes: Tattvasa?grahapa?jik?, avatara?ik? to verse 1960: ?le?ma?a? sak???d r?ga?, pitt?d dve?a?, v?t?n moha iti. If you would like information on secondary literature on these C?rv?ka views (e.g. by Franco, Preisendanz, Steinkellner, Namai, Ramkrishna Bhattacarya), or more Sanskrit passages, let me know. Yours Alex On 08-Apr-2011, at 1:19 AM, Harsha Dehejia wrote: > Friends~ > > I need a sentence or two in Sanskrit which expresses the basic idea that the body and mind are a continuum. > > Any help would be hugely appreciated. > > Regards. > > Harsha > Prof. Harsha V. Dehejia > Proessor of Indian Studies, Carleton University > Ottawa, ON., Canada. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Apr 12 07:53:44 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 11 09:53:44 +0200 Subject: Conference invitation, Russian State University of the Humanities, Aprill 27-28, 2011. Message-ID: <161227092222.23782.9790401424636009230.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5508 Lines: 226 --- Forwarded message --- The Centre for South Asian Studies, Russian State University for the Humanities, invites you to attend the workshop ?*Ope**n Pages in South Asian Studies? * The workshop is to be held at the University (6, Miusskaya square, Moscow, 125993, Russia) in April 27-28, 2011. The workshop is going to be the first international meeting of scholars to be convened at the Centre. The questions that we would like to raise for discussion at the workshop are the following: - What are the most important lacunae in our knowledge about South Asia? - What new problems have appeared recently and/or may appear in the future? - What do we need (and/or lack) to fill those lacunae and to face those problems? These questions refer to both classical Indology and to modern South Asian Studies. The organizers of the event hope to stimulate a wide-ranging, cross-disciplinary discussion of the workshop?s topics. The program of the workshop is given here: *April 27**, Wednesday, Room 273* 9*30*-9*45* Inauguration 9*45*-10*30* (the keynote speaker) Dr. *Dominik Wujastyk* Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien ?How to choose a good Indological problem? (???? ??????? ????????, ????????? ??? ???????????? ??????????) 10*30*-11*15* Dr. *Alexander Dubiansky* Inst. of Asian and African Countries Moscow State University ?Problems of Studying the Tamil Literature? (????????? ???????????? ?????????? ???????????) 11*15*-11*45* *Coffee** break* 11*45*-12*30* Dr. *D. Dayalan* Archaeological Survey of India Chennai Circle ?Open Pages in South Asian Archaeology? (?????? ????? ? ?????????? ????? ?????) 12*30*-13*15* Dr. *Sergey Kullanda* Inst. of Oriental Studies of the RAS Moscow ?Arian Prehistory and the Culture of Hindustan? (???????????? ????? ? ???????? ??????????) 13*15*-14*45* *Lunch* 14*45*-15*30* Dr. *Elisa Freschi*, Dr. *Artemij Keidan* Universit? di Roma 'La Sapienza' Instituto di Studi Orientali Roma, ?The Study of Indian Linguistics: Prescriptive Language in *Ny?yama?jar?*and Modern Speech Act Theories? (???????? ????????? ???????????: ??????????? ???? ? *Ny?yama?jar? *? ??????????? ?????? ???????? ????) 15*30*-16*15* Prof. *Victoria Lyssenko*, Prof. *Artemij Kobzev* Inst. of Philosophy of the RAS Inst. of Oriental Studies of the RAS Moscow ?Did There Exist the Chinese Atomism: the Vai?e?ika Atomistic Text in Chinese Philosophical Tradition? (???????????? ?? ????????? ???????: ?????? ??????????????? ?????? ????????? ? ????????? ?????????) 16*15*-16*45* *Coffee break* 16*45*-17*30* Prof. *Leonid Alaev* Inst. of Oriental Studies of the RAS Moscow ?Indian Village Community: Ideological Construct and Real Institution? (?????????? ???????? ??????: ?????????? ? ???????? ?????????) 17*30*-18*15* Prof. Dr. *Jamal Malik* Universit?t Erfurt Philosophische Fakult?t Seminar f?r Religionswissenschaft und Islamwissenschaft ?Pre-colonial Modernity: The Case of Indian Muslim Pietists? (??????????????? ?????????????: ?? ??????? ????????? ????????????? ????????? ?) 18*15*-19*00* Discussion *April 28**, Thursday* 10*00*-10*45* (the keynote speaker) Prof. *William Vanderbok* South Asian Studies Association Woodland Hills, CA, USA ?Publish or Perish Roulette: Where Scholars of South Asia Place Their Research Bets? (???????????? ??? ?????????: ?? ??? ????????????? ????? ????????????? ????? ?????) 10*45*-11*30* Prof. *Alexandra Safronova* Inst. of Asian and African Countries Moscow State University "Past and Present of Theravada Buddhism in Sri Lanka: Traditional Heritage versus Challenge of Modernity" (???????? ? ????????? ???????? ????????? ? ??? ?????: ???????????? ???????? ?????? ??????? ??????????????) 11*30*-12*00* *Coffee break* 12*00*-12*45* Prof. *Vyacheslav Belokrenitsky* Inst. of Oriental Studies of the RAS Moscow ?The Western Region of South Asia: Problems of Contemporary Analysis of Tribal Areas? (????????? ?????? ????? ????: ???????? ???????? ?????????? ???????? ???????) 12*45*-13*30* Dr *Manuela Ciotti* International Research Center IGK Humboldt University Berlin ?Rethinking the Dalit Question: Ethnographic Perspectives on Political Agency, Gender and Class in Urban North India? (?????? ?????????? ???????? ?????????????: ??????????????? ?????? ? ???????????? ????????????? ???????, ????????? ? ????????? ??????? ? ??????????????? ???????) 13*30*-15*00* *Lunch* 15*00*-15*45* Prof. *Tatiana Shaumyan* Inst. of Oriental Studies of the RAS Moscow ?Open Pages in Modern History of Hindustan: New Interpretations? (?????? ????? ? ??????????? ??????? ?????????: ????? ??????????????) 15*45*-16*30* Dr. *Alexander Vasilyev* Inst. of Oriental Studies of the RAS Moscow ?Documents on South Asia in Turkic Archives? (?????????? ?? ????? ???? ? ??????? ???????) 16*30*-17*00* *Coffee break* 17*00*-17*45* Dr. *Tatiana Zagorodnikova* Inst. of Oriental Studies of the RAS Moscow ?The Suhrawardy Family and Russia? (?????? ?????????? ? ???????) 17*45*-19*00* Discussion 19*00*-21*00* Fourchette The working language of the workshop is English. Every speaker will be given 30 minutes for his/her presentation, followed by 15-20 minutes for discussion. If you are interested in attending the workshop, please, send your ideas at the address: *olya.limonova at gmail.com* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From donovevs at LIBERO.IT Tue Apr 12 11:10:25 2011 From: donovevs at LIBERO.IT (Svevo D'Onofrio) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 11 13:10:25 +0200 Subject: Persian and Arabic borrowings in Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <4D9CAAF7.2090205@pbhome.se> Message-ID: <161227092226.23782.3468002436678761075.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1510 Lines: 31 Dear colleague, one the earliest instances (11th century) of a Sanskrit text incorporating several Perso-Arabic loanwords in a Sanskritized form is the Buddhist K?lacakra Tantra. John Newman's article Islam in the K?lacakra Tantra, "Journal of the International Association of Buddhist Studies", vol. 21, no. 2, 1998: 311-371 gives several examples and even has a list (p. 333) of such words. Best, Svevo D'Onofrio PhD, Research Fellow Department of Linguistic and Oriental Studies University of Bologna Via Zamboni, 33 - 40126 Italy Il giorno 06/apr/2011, alle ore 20.03, Martin Gansten ha scritto: > Many thanks to all who responded to my query so far. I have consulted Weber's work, and now find that I need to qualify my original question somewhat. > > Weber (1887: 21) gives a list of Sanskritization of Persian phonemes in the P?ras?prak??a (c. 1600). However, this list does not quite tally with the examples I have seen in Sanskrit astrological works dating (probably) from the 13th century or earlier. One obvious possible explanation is that pronunciation had changed over the intervening centuries. > > My modified question, therefore, must be: what are the earliest documented examples (preferably lists) of Sanskritized Persian or Arabic words after, say, 1000 CE? > > Vidvajjanaday?p?tram, > > Martin Gansten -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU Wed Apr 13 01:09:42 2011 From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John C. Huntington) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 11 21:09:42 -0400 Subject: Jaina Cosmology Diagrams Message-ID: <161227092230.23782.1802132967194130475.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1203 Lines: 33 Dear All list Friends & Colleagues My apologies for cross listing! I am pleased to announce that we have just uploaded a new sequence of drawings on Jaina Cosmology. This important aspect of Indian religion and philosophy has not been on my "radar" until recently. In order to learn about it myself, I made a series of drawings based on Gujarati and Rajasthani paintings and manuscripts that I felt might be useful. Please note the link is on the right side of the first page of the archive site (http://huntingtonarchive.osu.edu/) To see the images large enough to actually read, the browser window in which the list of diagrams come up must be expanded to as large as your monitor will allow BEFORE YOU CLICK ON ONE OF THE DIAGRAM NAMES. I will deeply appreciate any additions, corrections, or suggestions as to how to improve the diagrams. I hope these will be of use in your teaching and research Sarvamangalam. John John C. Huntington, Professor (Buddhist Art and Methodologies) The Ohio State University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From julia.hegewald at UNI-BONN.DE Wed Apr 13 06:24:52 2011 From: julia.hegewald at UNI-BONN.DE (Julia Hegewald) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 11 08:24:52 +0200 Subject: Jaina Cosmology Diagrams In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092234.23782.18023899061415446592.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1871 Lines: 68 Dear John, The diagrams are absolutely wonderful and very very helpful for teaching indeed, particularly when juxtaposed with cosmological paintings or relief panels and information taken from cosmographic texts. Thank you so much for making these available! With best wishes, Julia. -- Prof. Dr. Julia A. B. Hegewald Professor of Oriental Art History Head of Department Universit?t Bonn Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften (IOA) Abteilung f?r Asiatische und Islamische Kunstgeschichte Adenauerallee 10 D ? 53113 Bonn Germany On [DATE], "John C. Huntington" <[ADDRESS]> wrote: > Dear All list Friends & Colleagues > > My apologies for cross listing! > > I am pleased to announce that we have just uploaded a new sequence of drawings > on Jaina Cosmology. > > This important aspect of Indian religion and philosophy has not been on my > "radar" until recently. In order to learn about it myself, I made a series of > drawings based on Gujarati and Rajasthani paintings and manuscripts that I > felt might be useful. > > Please note the link is on the right side of the first page of the archive > site (http://huntingtonarchive.osu.edu/) > > To see the images large enough to actually read, the browser window in which > the list of diagrams come up must be expanded to as large as your monitor will > allow BEFORE YOU CLICK ON ONE OF THE DIAGRAM NAMES. > > I will deeply appreciate any additions, corrections, or suggestions as to how > to improve the diagrams. > > I hope these will be of use in your teaching and research > > Sarvamangalam. > > John > > > John C. Huntington, Professor > (Buddhist Art and Methodologies) > The Ohio State University > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jacob at FABULARASA.DK Wed Apr 13 09:00:45 2011 From: jacob at FABULARASA.DK (Jaob Schmidt-Madsen) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 11 11:00:45 +0200 Subject: Copying of Sanskrit texts into Sinhala lipi Message-ID: <161227092237.23782.2730594185480419359.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 449 Lines: 17 Dear list I am trying to establish whether a particular palm leaf manuscript might reflect the copying of Sanskrit texts into Sinhala lipi. I would be most interested in any information you might know of on this subject. Even information on the similar trend of copying Sanskrit texts into Tamil lipi, using the modified form of Grantha, could prove helpful. Regards, Jacob Jacob Schmidt-Madsen Department of Indology University of Copenhagen From clarsha at MCMASTER.CA Thu Apr 14 11:03:38 2011 From: clarsha at MCMASTER.CA (Shayne Clarke) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 11 07:03:38 -0400 Subject: Reminder: April 15: Gregory Schopen on Debt, Slavery, and Who could Become a Buddhist Nun (or Monk) in Early India Message-ID: <161227092242.23782.7356608809365097886.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1864 Lines: 43 Apologies for cross-posting. Reminder: The University of Toronto/McMaster University Yehan Numata Buddhist Studies Program is pleased to announce a free, public lecture by Professor Gregory Schopen (UCLA): ?The Limited Reach of Religious Doctrine: Debt, Slavery, and Who could Become a Buddhist Nun (or Monk) in Early India.? Time and date: 5 pm, April 15, 2011 Place: Muzzo Family Alumni Hall 100, University of St. Michael?s College, 121 St. Joseph Street, Toronto Sponsored by the University of Toronto/McMaster University Yehan Numata Buddhist Studies Program Professor Gregory Schopen (MA McMaster University, 1975; PhD ANU, 1979) has taught at the Universities of Michigan, Washington, Indiana, Texas, Stanford, and California. He was awarded a prestigious MacArthur ?genius? fellowship (1985-1990) in recognition of his work in Buddhist Studies, which has been described as ?Unquestionably the freshest, most exciting scholarship to have emerged in the field in half a century.? Professor Schopen?s numerous publications include: ? Bones, Stones and Buddhist Monks. University of Hawai?i Press, 1997. ? Buddhist Monks and Business Matters. University of Hawai?i Press, 2004. ? Figments and Fragments of Mah?y?na Buddhism in India. University of Hawai?i Press, 2005. For more information, contact Shayne Clarke: clarsha at mcmaster.ca http://buddhiststudies.chass.utoronto.ca/gregory-schopen/ ------------------- Shayne Clarke Department of Religious Studies McMaster University University Hall, Room 104 1280 Main Street West Hamilton, Ontario L8S 4K1 CANADA Phone: 905 525 9140, ext. 23389 Fax: 905 525 8161 clarsha[at]mcmaster.ca http://socserv.mcmaster.ca/clarsha/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Thu Apr 14 07:57:53 2011 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 11 09:57:53 +0200 Subject: Intensive Course in Pali for Beginners Message-ID: <161227092239.23782.1906732901663435180.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1123 Lines: 31 Dear Colleagues, I am pleased to announce an Intensive Course in P?li for Beginners to be held at the Indology Department of Martin Luther University Halle (Saale) from September 12 through 23, 2011. The instructor will be Dr. Petra Kieffer-Puelz, the medium of teaching will be German. More details are available on our website: http://www.indologie.uni-halle.de/aktuelles/ Deadline for registration: August 1, 2011. Contact: katrin.einicke at indologie.uni-halle.de Kindly regarding, Walter Slaje ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Apr 14 14:29:54 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 11 16:29:54 +0200 Subject: New project at Tuebingen concerning smaller literary magazines in Hindi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092245.23782.15445256435278656008.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 671 Lines: 15 http://www.kss.uni-tuebingen.de/ *Karmendu Shishir Shodhagar (KSS)* is the first international archival collection of Hindi literary little magazines (*Laghupatrik?s*). The project aims to digitize, catalogue and document the vibrant literary circles of North India. Unique to the *Shodhagar *is the attempt to retrieve now-almost-extinct little Hindi literary magazines and journals (* Laghupatrik?s*), currently about 4500 issues, covering the period from 1883 to 1947 and from 1947 to 2009. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clarsha at MCMASTER.CA Fri Apr 15 18:59:51 2011 From: clarsha at MCMASTER.CA (Shayne Clarke) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 11 14:59:51 -0400 Subject: Revised conference schedule: Buddhist Nuns in India Message-ID: <161227092249.23782.14085740814388964686.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3914 Lines: 93 Dear colleagues, The University of Toronto/McMaster University Yehan Numata Buddhist Studies Program is pleased to announce an international conference on the lives of ordained Buddhist nuns in India from the time of the Buddha until the eventual disappearance of the bhik?u?? sa?gha from Indian soil. Buddhist Nuns in India April 16-17, 2011, University of Toronto Trinity College, Combination Room. 6 Hoskin Avenue, Toronto Sponsored by the University of Toronto/McMaster University Yehan Numata Buddhist Studies Program Friday, April 15 (5 pm): Public lecture Gregory Schopen (UCLA): "The Limited Reach of Religious Doctrine: Debt, Slavery, and Who could Become a Buddhist Nun (or Monk) in Early India." Muzzo Family Alumni Hall 100, University of St. Michael's College, 121 St. Joseph Street, Toronto Saturday, April 16 Session One (9:30?10:45) Oskar von Hin?ber (Universit?t Freiburg) "Pious and Useful: Women Who did Not Become Nuns in Early Buddhism" Hiraoka Satoshi (Ky?to Bunky? University) "Did Ya?odhar? become a Nun? On the Indebtedness of the Lotus S?tra to the M?lasarv?stiv?da-vinaya" Session Two (11:00?12:00) Shayne Clarke (McMaster University) "Gu?aprabha, Yijing, Bu sTon and the Lack of a Coherent System of Rules for Nuns in the Tibetan Tradition of the M?lasarv?stiv?da-vinaya" Yonezawa Yoshiyasu (Taish? University) "Re-editing the Bhik?u??-vibha?ga Section of the Vinayas?tra" Session Three (1:30?2:30) Petra Kieffer-P?lz (Martin-Luther-Universit?t, Halle-Wittenberg) "Buddhist Nuns in South India as Reflected in the Andhaka??hakath? and the Anuga??hipada" Jinah Kim (Vanderbilt University) "At the Feet of the Buddha: Representations of Buddhist Nuns and Monastic Women in Medieval South Asia" Session Four (2:45?3:45) Jason Neelis (Wilfrid Laurier University) "Female Ownership of Buddhist Monasteries? A Closer Look at Vih?rasv?min?s and Feminine Patronage in South Asian Sources" Gregory Schopen (University of California, Los Angeles) "The Buddhist Nun as an Urban Landlord and a 'Legal Person' in Early India" Discussion (4:00?5:00) Shimoda Masahiro (Tokyo University), Paul Groner (University of Virginia), Andrew Skilton (University of London) Sunday, April 17 Session One (9:30?10:30) Jampa Tsedroen (Universit?t Hamburg) "The Foundation of the Order of Buddhist Nuns According to the Tibetan Translation of the K?udrakavastu of the M?lasarv?stiv?da-vinaya" Yao Fumi (Tokyo University) "The Story of Dharmadinn?: Ordination by Messenger in the M?lasarv?stiv?da-vinaya" Session Two (10:45?11:45) Sasaki Shizuka (Hanazono University) "An Analytical Study of the Bhik?u?? P?r?jika rules in the Vinayas" Kishino Ry?ji (University of California, Los Angeles) "On Possible Misunderstandings of the Brahmacaryopasth?nasa?v?ti Requirement for Female Ordination in the M?lasarv?stiv?da-vinaya" Session Three (1:15?2:45) Ann Heirman (University of Gent) "Beyond Gender: Bodily Care in Indian Buddhist Monasticism" Mari Jyvasjarvi (Harvard University) "Buddhist and Jain Nuns in Early Medieval India" Christoph Emmrich (University of Toronto, Mississauga) "And Then There Were None? Mrs. Shakya and the Sketchy History of the Nepalese Bhik?u??s" Concluding remarks and discussion (3:00?4:00) Shimoda Masahiro (Tokyo University), Paul Groner (University of Virginia), Andrew Skilton (University of London) All sessions in Trinity College, Combination Room. 6 Hoskin Avenue, Toronto. Sincerely, Shayne Clarke ------------------- Shayne Clarke Department of Religious Studies McMaster University University Hall, Room 104 1280 Main Street West Hamilton, Ontario L8S 4K1 CANADA Phone: 905 525 9140, ext. 23389 Fax: 905 525 8161 clarsha[at]mcmaster.ca http://socserv.mcmaster.ca/clarsha/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA Fri Apr 15 20:00:03 2011 From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 11 16:00:03 -0400 Subject: "Saa'nkhaayana Aara.nyaka Message-ID: <161227092253.23782.7512652337775040557.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 981 Lines: 37 Dear Colleagues/Friends, A student of mine is looking for the original Sanskrit text for the ZaaGkhaayana AaraNyaka ("Saa'nkhaayana Aara.nyaka) The English version was written by Keith, A. B. K. 1908. "Saa'nkhaayana Aara.nyaka with an Appendix on the Mahaavrata. London: The Royal Asiatic Society. If anyone knows how to access the original Sanskrit, I would appreciate the information. Thanks and best wishes to all Stella Sandahl P.S. You may respond directly to bryanl at guidelinesad.com or bryan.levman at utoronto.ca since I will not have access to my computer until April 22nd. Professor Stella Sandahl Department of East Asian Studies 130 St. George St. room 14087 Toronto, ON M5S 3H1 ssandahl at sympatico.ca stella.sandahl at utoronto.ca Tel. (416) 978-4295 Fax. (416) 978-5711 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From donovevs at LIBERO.IT Fri Apr 15 20:08:48 2011 From: donovevs at LIBERO.IT (Svevo D'Onofrio) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 11 22:08:48 +0200 Subject: Publication Announcement Message-ID: <161227092256.23782.4216854505809675288.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 956 Lines: 26 Dear list members, I am pleased to announce the publication of a new translation of Dara Shikoh's Majma' al-Bahrayn (in Italian): Mu?ammad D?r? ?ik?h, La congiunzione dei due oceani, a cura di Svevo D'Onofrio e Fabrizio Speziale, Milano, Adelphi, 2011. Pp. 170, ISBN 9788845925597, EUR. 14. http://www.adelphi.it/libro/9788845925597 The translation is based on a new critical edition of both the original Persian text and its Sanskrit counterpart (Samudrasa?gama) by S. D'Onofrio. The publication of the critically edited texts is currently under preparation. Best wishes, Svevo D'Onofrio PhD, Research Fellow University of Bologna Department of Linguistics and Oriental Studies via Zamboni 33 - 40126 Bologna, Italy Tel: +39 051 2098471 Email: svevo.donofrio at unibo.it -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Sun Apr 17 00:59:20 2011 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 11 00:59:20 +0000 Subject: "Saa'nkhaayana Aara.nyaka In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092259.23782.5240876793645702596.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1270 Lines: 50 Bhim Dev1980 ???kh?yan?ra?yakam. Critically Edited. Hoshiarpur: Vishveshvaranand Vedic Research Institute. I believe there is also an earlier edition from Pune (Anandashrama). Arlo Griffiths (EFEO/Jakarta) ________________________________ > Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 16:00:03 -0400 > From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA > Subject: [INDOLOGY] "Saa'nkhaayana Aara.nyaka > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Dear Colleagues/Friends, > > A student of mine is looking for the original Sanskrit text for the > > ZaaGkhaayana AaraNyaka ("Saa'nkhaayana Aara.nyaka) > > The English version was written by > > Keith, A. B. K. 1908. "Saa'nkhaayana Aara.nyaka with an Appendix on the > Mahaavrata. London: The Royal Asiatic Society. > > If anyone knows how to access the original Sanskrit, I would appreciate > the information. > Thanks and best wishes to all > Stella Sandahl > > P.S. You may respond directly to > bryanl at guidelinesad.com or > bryan.levman at utoronto.ca > since I will not have access to my computer until April 22nd. > > > Professor Stella Sandahl > Department of East Asian Studies > 130 St. George St. room 14087 > Toronto, ON M5S 3H1 > ssandahl at sympatico.ca > stella.sandahl at utoronto.ca > Tel. (416) 978-4295 > Fax. (416) 978-5711 > > > From lubint at WLU.EDU Sun Apr 17 12:42:16 2011 From: lubint at WLU.EDU (Lubin, Tim) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 11 08:42:16 -0400 Subject: "Saa'nkhaayana Aara.nyaka In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092262.23782.17417160288936348284.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1610 Lines: 57 "Saa:nkhaayanaara.nyaka, ed. V. G. Apte, AAnandaa"sramagranthaalaye 90 (Poona, 1922). -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Arlo Griffiths Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 8:59 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] "Saa'nkhaayana Aara.nyaka Bhim Dev1980 ???kh?yan?ra?yakam. Critically Edited. Hoshiarpur: Vishveshvaranand Vedic Research Institute. I believe there is also an earlier edition from Pune (Anandashrama). Arlo Griffiths (EFEO/Jakarta) ______________________________ > Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 16:00:03 -0400 > From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA > Subject: [INDOLOGY] "Saa'nkhaayana Aara.nyaka > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Dear Colleagues/Friends, > > A student of mine is looking for the original Sanskrit text for the > > ZaaGkhaayana AaraNyaka ("Saa'nkhaayana Aara.nyaka) > > The English version was written by > > Keith, A. B. K. 1908. "Saa'nkhaayana Aara.nyaka with an Appendix on the > Mahaavrata. London: The Royal Asiatic Society. > > If anyone knows how to access the original Sanskrit, I would appreciate > the information. > Thanks and best wishes to all > Stella Sandahl > > P.S. You may respond directly to > bryanl at guidelinesad.com or > bryan.levman at utoronto.ca > since I will not have access to my computer until April 22nd. > > > Professor Stella Sandahl > Department of East Asian Studies > 130 St. George St. room 14087 > Toronto, ON M5S 3H1 > ssandahl at sympatico.ca > stella.sandahl at utoronto.ca > Tel. (416) 978-4295 > Fax. (416) 978-5711 > > > !SIG:4daa3bae3348861615432! From lubint at WLU.EDU Mon Apr 18 21:43:03 2011 From: lubint at WLU.EDU (Lubin, Tim) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 11 17:43:03 -0400 Subject: "Saa'nkhaayana Aara.nyaka Message-ID: <161227092264.23782.7559210016473057912.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 707 Lines: 27 Forwarded from: Thrasher, Allen [mailto:athr at loc.gov] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 3:12 PM To: Lubin, Tim Subject: RE: [INDOLOGY] "Saa'nkhaayana Aara.nyaka Stella, I don't know how I missed it the first time around searching, but LOC has the Hoshiarpur ed. for interlibrary loan, if your friend is in North America or Europe. Also, WorldCat shows numerous copies of the Ananadasrama ed. in N. America and Europe. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From jenni.cover at URSYS.COM.AU Tue Apr 19 00:53:16 2011 From: jenni.cover at URSYS.COM.AU (Jennifer Cover) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 11 10:53:16 +1000 Subject: Notice of publication - Bodhasara Message-ID: <161227092267.23782.5965016646766675165.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1546 Lines: 46 Greetings All, Notice of publication ? Bodhas?ra: An Eighteenth Century Sanskrit Treasure by Narahari - Translated by Jennifer and Grahame Cover with contributions from Kanchan Mande and a foreword by Swami Dayananda Saraswati. This is the first English translation of Narahari?s 18th century Sanskrit text, Bodhas?ra. Website www.bodhasara.com contains insights and information about the book. Paperback version available at www.amazon.com and www.bodhasara.com. Hardcover version available on application to contact at bodhasara.com Bodhas?ra is a good text for University Sanskrit classes. Living up to its name it contains the essence of knowledge of the whole ? knowledge of advaita, yoga, Hindu practices and much more - in fine poetic Sanskrit using striking metaphors and witty humour. This publication contains Sanskrit, in Devanagiri and transliterated fonts, on left hand pages, and English on right hand pages. Special care was taken to create fine English expression that remains faithful to the original Sanskrit. Divakara?s commentary was read and absorbed into the translation. This publication of Bodhas?ra has been launched and well-received in Australia (Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane) and India ? at Pune University and Rishikesh. The translation was praised by Sanskrit scholars in Pune and Rishikesh. Warm wishes, Jennifer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Apr 19 09:51:10 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 11 11:51:10 +0200 Subject: Digitizing the Poona dictionary slips Message-ID: <161227092270.23782.2327236581237740328.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 391 Lines: 12 This report is interesting, but gives little detail. Does anyone here know more? http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/pune/Sanskrit-slips-at-Deccan-college-to-be-digitised/articleshow/8019263.cms Best, Dominik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nasadasin at GMAIL.COM Wed Apr 20 17:15:38 2011 From: nasadasin at GMAIL.COM (Al Collins) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 11 09:15:38 -0800 Subject: Summer programs in Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227092275.23782.2687421304380911634.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 818 Lines: 17 My son is looking for an intensive program in Sanskrit this summer, hopefully more than a couple of weeks. He's had 4 years training, but is a bit rusty and would profit from a 3rd year or very intense 2nd year (say reading the epics or dharmasastras with commentaries). Does anybody know of anything like that? I'm aware of the Wisconsin program but not others. He is not currently enrolled anywhere. A second question. He might profit from a year in India, just as a special student in Sanskrit and other Indian cultural areas (music, etc.). Any ideas of institutions that might accept an independent scholar for such purpose? Al Collins -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andra.kleb at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Wed Apr 20 15:05:22 2011 From: andra.kleb at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (Andrey Klebanov) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 11 17:05:22 +0200 Subject: Zimmermann (1978) Message-ID: <161227092273.23782.15971323180217922414.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 338 Lines: 11 Dear members of the list, I would be most grateful for your help in getting Francis Zimmermann's article "Introducing Western anatomy to the practitioners of classical Indian medicine [...]" from 1978. For detailed bibliographical reference see http://indianmedicine.eldoc.ub.rug.nl/root/Z/155150/ thanks in advance warmest, Andrey From mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM Thu Apr 21 17:00:13 2011 From: mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 11 13:00:13 -0400 Subject: Pandit Hemendra Nath Chakravarty passed away Message-ID: <161227092290.23782.5364557766629106174.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1146 Lines: 23 Obituary : Pandit Hemendra Nath Chakravarty (Varanasi) It is with a heavy heart that I am announcing the death of Pandit Hemendra Nath Chakravarty (Varanasi), a pandit par excellence and a wonderful human being. He was a student of Gopinath Kaviraj and learnt many ?aiva texts with him besides the Ny?ya??stra. He taught many Indologists and helped many of us learning the texts of Abhinavagupta. He worked for long term projects with Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts (Varanasi) and contributed immensely in the series of the Kal?tattvako?a. He kept on teaching many of his students till his last breath. His annotated English translation of the Tantras?ra of Abhinavagupta is still awaited. May his soul rest in peace. Mrinal Kaul ************************ Mrinal Kaul "Ro'ni Ph'ol" # 37/4 - Pandoka Colony Paloura, Jammu (Kashmir) - 181121 Jammu & Kashmir State, India ************************* Tel: +91-191-253-2549 e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shrimaitreya at GMAIL.COM Thu Apr 21 12:01:06 2011 From: shrimaitreya at GMAIL.COM ((Maitreya) Borayin Larios) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 11 14:01:06 +0200 Subject: tracing a verse > vedap=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81=E1=B9=ADha_-_vik=E1=B9=9Btis.?= Message-ID: <161227092279.23782.13644227696022630140.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1035 Lines: 32 Dear list In my fieldwork on the Vedic schools of Maharashtra, the following verse was given to me by a vaidika describing the recitational permutations of the Veda. *ja?? m?l? **?ikh? **rekh**? **dhvajo **da??o** ratho ghana**?** itya??o vik?ti prokta? kramap?rva mahar?ibhi?* When asked about the textual source, the vaidika wasn't able to produce a textual reference. He only said it was a quite popular verse. I haven't been able to trace it back yet. Does anybody know in which text this verse might be found? Thank you all for your responses and happy Easter! Best, Borayin M. Larios ______________________________ (Maitreya) Borayin Larios J?gerpfad 13 69118 Heidelberg Germany Mobile:(+49)1707366232 http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/mitarbeiter/larios/larios.php http://www.flickr.com/photos/shrimaitreya/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Thu Apr 21 13:10:46 2011 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 11 15:10:46 +0200 Subject: tracing a verse > vedap=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81=E1=B9=ADha_-_v_ik=E1=B9=9Btis.?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092282.23782.3553183759289823047.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1088 Lines: 31 Am 21.04.2011 14:01, schrieb (Maitreya) Borayin Larios: > In my fieldwork on the Vedic schools of Maharashtra, the following > verse was given to me by a vaidika describing the recitational > permutations of the Veda. > > /ja?? m?l? //?ikh? //rekh//? //dhvajo //da??o//ratho ghana//?// > itya??o vik?ti prokta? kramap?rva mahar?ibhi?/ > > When asked about the textual source, the vaidika wasn't able to > produce a textual reference. He only said it was a quite popular > verse. I haven't been able to trace it back yet. Does anybody know in > which text this verse might be found? The verse is cited in Mahe?vara's commentary on Amarako?a, K???a 1, ?abd?divarga, verse 4 (p. 35 of the edition Bombay 1907). The commentator does not give a source for this quotation. hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 D-53113 Bonn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gerard.fussman at COLLEGE-DE-FRANCE.FR Thu Apr 21 16:01:57 2011 From: gerard.fussman at COLLEGE-DE-FRANCE.FR (Gerard Fussman) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 11 18:01:57 +0200 Subject: Fw: new publication Message-ID: <161227092286.23782.9866582769754053648.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2350 Lines: 35 ----- Message d'origine ----- De : Gerard Fussman ? : INDOL0GY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK Envoy? : jeudi 21 avril 2011 17:50 Objet : new publication New book : Shakirjan PIDAEV, Tukhtash ANNAEV et G?rard FUSSMAN, Monuments bouddhiques de Termez/Termez Buddhist Monuments, I, Catalogue des inscriptions sur poteries par G?rard FUSSMAN avec une contribution de Nicholas SIMS-WILLIAMS et la collaboration d??ric OLLIVIER, Publications de l?Institut de Civilisation Indienne, fasc. 791 et 792, Paris, 280 pages including 16 colour plates and 80 black and white plates. Euros 88. Available from De Boccard, 11 rue de M?dicis, 75006 Paris, http://www.deboccard.com/ Termez, now a provincial capital of Uzbekistan, lies at the confluence of the Suraxandar?ja and Amudar?ja (former Oxus) rivers. North of the ruins of the Old Town, destroyed by Gengis Khan and since deserted, explored by Soviet archaeologists since the 1930?s, two Buddhist monasteries were excavated: Kara-Tepa (where excavations are still going on) and Fajaz-Tepa. They are the best evidence we have for Bactrian Buddhism, including in the very close-by Bactrae. Outstanding paintings and sculptures were brought to light: they are not dealt with in this volume, entirely devoted to the architecture and epigraphy of these two monasteries. A great number of sherds and pots inscribed in Indian and Bactrian languages were discovered during the excavations. V. V. Vertogradova published in 1995 all the Kara-Tepa and Fajaz-Tepa inscriptions known at that time. Many more were discovered since. This volume contains a commented-upon catalogue of every inscribed sherd ever found in Termez, viz. 226 Kara-Tepa sherds, 94 Fajaz-Tepa sherds, 17 sherds from other places in and around Termez. These inscriptions are the best evidence we have for life in mah?s??ghika monasteries in Bactria from c. 50 A.D. to c. 650. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Termezlivre-Pubinternet.doc Type: application/msword Size: 26624 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Apr 21 17:53:39 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 11 19:53:39 +0200 Subject: tracing a verse > vedap=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81=E1=B9=ADha_-_vik=E1=B9=9Btis.?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092293.23782.199184424962347155.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2636 Lines: 76 The verse occurs in several of the Vik?ti works collected in K. V. Abbhyankar and G. V. Devasthali, *Vedavik?tilak?a?a-Sa?graha (a collection of twelve tracts on Vedavik?tis and allied topics)* (Poona: BORI, 1978). E.g., - 1. Vy??ik?t? Vik?tivall? v.5 (of 28 verses total), and discussed in the commentary on this work, Vik?tikaumud?, by Ga?g?dharabha???c?rya. - A??avik?tilak?a??ni, v. 1. Unique MS copied in AD 1904. - Ja??pa?alak?rik?vy?khy?, v.2. Unique undated MS (therefore to be assumed to be early 19th century). - Hayagr?vak?ta? Ja??pa?alam and commentaries - generally not mentioned. - Madhus?danamaskarin's A??avik?tiviv?ti, verse 3. Datable MSS of this work from AD 1790 onwards. - Kau??inya?ik?? - no. - Kramapa?ala - no. - ?kpr?ti??khya 3 with Uva?a - no. - Jayantasv?min's Svar??ku?a - no. So, the general picture is that there are roughly three main traditions of these texts. Those derived from a Vy??i, those named after Hayagr?va, and those associated with Pr?ti??khya and ?ik?? texts. The verse in question occurs in the first tradition, and not in the others. Abhyankar and Devasthali's claims that this Vy??i is the ancient authority mentioned in the Mah?bh??ya are to be discounted. Best, Dominik Dr Dominik Wujastyk Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Vienna Austria Project: http://www.istb.univie.ac.at/caraka/ On 21 April 2011 14:01, (Maitreya) Borayin Larios wrote: > Dear list > > In my fieldwork on the Vedic schools of Maharashtra, the following verse > was given to me by a vaidika describing the recitational permutations of the > Veda. > > *ja?? m?l? **?ikh? **rekh**? **dhvajo **da??o** ratho ghana**?** > itya??o vik?ti prokta? kramap?rva mahar?ibhi?* > > When asked about the textual source, the vaidika wasn't able to produce a > textual reference. He only said it was a quite popular verse. I haven't been > able to trace it back yet. Does anybody know in which text this verse might > be found? > > Thank you all for your responses and happy Easter! > Best, > Borayin M. Larios > > ______________________________ > (Maitreya) Borayin Larios > J?gerpfad 13 > 69118 Heidelberg > Germany > Mobile:(+49)1707366232 > http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/mitarbeiter/larios/larios.php > http://www.flickr.com/photos/shrimaitreya/ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Fri Apr 22 17:02:16 2011 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 11 10:02:16 -0700 Subject: Assistance requested in obtaining copies of two doctoral theses on Sanskrit grammar In-Reply-To: <29556_1303474096_1303474096_244F101F-C4BE-4CC3-B394-C373DAE252D8@uni-bonn.de> Message-ID: <161227092304.23782.13314562801688107364.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1381 Lines: 32 The first doctoral dissertation is also published. It is written in Skt. The details of publication are almost all the same as given by Jesper Larn?s. Only the series volume number should be "16" instead of "15". I have a copy of it. I would expect many North American libraries to have it, too. Perhaps the publisher also can still supply a copy. a.a. On 2011-04-22, at 5:04 AM, Peter Wyzlic wrote: > > Am 22.04.2011 um 13:00 schrieb Jesper Larn?s: > >> Mi?ra, Adya Prasada (1966). Prakriy?kaumud?-vimar?a? (=Sarasvat? Bhavana Studies 15). Varanasi: V?r??aseya Sa?sk?ta Vi?vavidy?laya. [A V?r??aseya Sa?sk?ta Vi?vavidy?laya doctoral dissertation from 1964]. >> >> Saini, R. S. (1965). Post-P??inian systems of Sanskrit grammar, with special reference to their technique and scope. Delhi. [Unpublished]. > > In case you are not aware of it: Saini's thesis was published in 1999 under the same title and is, maybe, still available: Post-Pa?n?inian systems of Sanskrit grammar / R.S. Saini. - Delhi : Parimal Publications, 1999. - x, 277 p. > > Hope it helps > Peter Wyzlic > > -- > Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften > Bibliothek > Universit?t Bonn > Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 > 53113 Bonn > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jesperlarnaes at GMAIL.COM Fri Apr 22 11:00:28 2011 From: jesperlarnaes at GMAIL.COM (=?utf-8?Q?Jesper_Larn=C3=A6s?=) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 11 13:00:28 +0200 Subject: Assistance requested in obtaining copies of two doctoral theses on Sanskrit grammar Message-ID: <161227092297.23782.17779464810579368936.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1043 Lines: 34 Dear members of the list, I am having trouble trying to obtain copies of the following two doctoral theses: Mi?ra, Adya Prasada (1966). *Prakriy?kaumud?-vimar?a?* (=Sarasvat? Bhavana Studies 15). Varanasi: V?r??aseya Sa?sk?ta Vi?vavidy?laya. [A V?r??aseya Sa?sk?ta Vi?vavidy?laya doctoral dissertation from 1964]. Saini, R. S. (1965). *Post-P??inian systems of Sanskrit grammar, with special reference to their technique and scope*. Delhi. [Unpublished]. Would any of you know from where I might be able to obtain copies of these or, perhaps, have a reference to someone who might know? Many thanks in advance. Best regards, Jesper Larn?s -- Jesper Friis Larn?s, MA. Ph.D. Student Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Artillerivej 86 - Room 0.06 DK-2300 Copenhagen S, Denmark Email: jfl at hum.ku.dk Tel.: (+45) 353 29197 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Fri Apr 22 12:04:03 2011 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 11 14:04:03 +0200 Subject: Assistance requested in obtaining copies of two doctoral theses on Sanskrit grammar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092300.23782.13857371786693266707.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 941 Lines: 24 Am 22.04.2011 um 13:00 schrieb Jesper Larn?s: > Mi?ra, Adya Prasada (1966). Prakriy?kaumud?-vimar?a? (=Sarasvat? Bhavana Studies 15). Varanasi: V?r??aseya Sa?sk?ta Vi?vavidy?laya. [A V?r??aseya Sa?sk?ta Vi?vavidy?laya doctoral dissertation from 1964]. > > Saini, R. S. (1965). Post-P??inian systems of Sanskrit grammar, with special reference to their technique and scope. Delhi. [Unpublished]. In case you are not aware of it: Saini's thesis was published in 1999 under the same title and is, maybe, still available: Post-Pa?n?inian systems of Sanskrit grammar / R.S. Saini. - Delhi : Parimal Publications, 1999. - x, 277 p. Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jesperlarnaes at GMAIL.COM Mon Apr 25 08:41:36 2011 From: jesperlarnaes at GMAIL.COM (=?utf-8?Q?Jesper_Larn=C3=A6s?=) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 11 10:41:36 +0200 Subject: Assistance requested in obtaining copies of two doctoral theses on Sanskrit grammar In-Reply-To: <1BB1EB61-3BF0-4503-AFA2-8AA30CBB11F0@ubc.ca> Message-ID: <161227092307.23782.5075636478961393190.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1855 Lines: 63 Many thanks to all who replied on and off list. I didn't know Saini's dissertation had been recently published and is now available from Parimal. Best, Jesper Larn?s 2011/4/22 Ashok Aklujkar > The first doctoral dissertation is also published. It is written in Skt. > The details of publication are almost all the same as given by Jesper > Larn?s. Only the series volume number should be "16" instead of "15". I have > a copy of it. I would expect many North American libraries to have it, too. > Perhaps the publisher also can still supply a copy. > > a.a. > > > On 2011-04-22, at 5:04 AM, Peter Wyzlic wrote: > > > Am 22.04.2011 um 13:00 schrieb Jesper Larn?s: > > Mi?ra, Adya Prasada (1966). *Prakriy?kaumud?-vimar?a?* (=Sarasvat? Bhavana > Studies 15). Varanasi: V?r??aseya Sa?sk?ta Vi?vavidy?laya. [A V?r??aseya > Sa?sk?ta Vi?vavidy?laya doctoral dissertation from 1964]. > > Saini, R. S. (1965). *Post-P??inian systems of Sanskrit grammar, with > special reference to their technique and scope*. Delhi. [Unpublished]. > > > In case you are not aware of it: Saini's thesis was published in 1999 under > the same title and is, maybe, still available: Post-Pa?n?inian systems of > Sanskrit grammar / R.S. Saini. - Delhi : Parimal Publications, 1999. - x, > 277 p. > > Hope it helps > Peter Wyzlic > > -- > Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften > Bibliothek > Universit?t Bonn > Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 > 53113 Bonn > > > -- Jesper Friis Larn?s, MA. Ph.D. Student Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Artillerivej 86 - Room 0.06 DK-2300 Copenhagen S, Denmark Email: jfl at hum.ku.dk Tel.: (+45) 353 29197 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From baums at BERKELEY.EDU Tue Apr 26 23:46:21 2011 From: baums at BERKELEY.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 11 16:46:21 -0700 Subject: Indische Studien In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092314.23782.10549384357202121426.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 420 Lines: 23 Dear Arlo, volumes 1 to 17 of Indische Studien are online here: http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000533891 http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/008408636 The stable link for volume 15 is: http://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.39015035897944 Oldenberg?s edition of the ???kh?yanag?hyas?tra starts on p. 1. All best, Stefan -- Dr. Stefan Baums Group in Buddhist Studies University of California, Berkeley From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Apr 26 23:26:28 2011 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 11 23:26:28 +0000 Subject: Indische Studien Message-ID: <161227092311.23782.14849812598195290826.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 326 Lines: 6 Can anyone point me to or supply to me pdf of Hermann Oldenberg's edition of the "Saa"nkhaayanag.rhyasuutra that appeared inIndische Studien 15?(1878), or, better still, to a complete set of the Indische Studien (if this series has already been digitized completely)? Many thanks! Arlo Griffiths (EFEO/Jakarta) From lubint at WLU.EDU Wed Apr 27 03:43:42 2011 From: lubint at WLU.EDU (Lubin, Tim) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 11 23:43:42 -0400 Subject: Indische Studien In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092316.23782.7617388111884777506.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1078 Lines: 27 This volume is available here: http://ia600301.us.archive.org/34/items/indischestudien07gesegoog/indischestudien07gesegoog.pdf Internet Archive has quite a number of volumes: http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=indische%20studien These are mostly from Google, but not all of them are still available from Google directly, and people outside the U.S. often cannot get access to the free Google books, but Internet Archive has their own archived copy of the pdf under the link: All Files: http Tim -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Arlo Griffiths Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 7:26 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indische Studien Can anyone point me to or supply to me pdf of Hermann Oldenberg's edition of the "Saa"nkhaayanag.rhyasuutra that appeared inIndische Studien 15?(1878), or, better still, to a complete set of the Indische Studien (if this series has already been digitized completely)? Many thanks! Arlo Griffiths (EFEO/Jakarta) !SIG:4db754cd54993777415808! From lubint at WLU.EDU Wed Apr 27 11:40:23 2011 From: lubint at WLU.EDU (Lubin, Tim) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 11 07:40:23 -0400 Subject: Indische Studien In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092322.23782.7792211825451222624.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1452 Lines: 41 The following appears to be a better scan of Vol. 15: http://ia600306.us.archive.org/0/items/indischestudien00unkngoog/indischestudien00unkngoog.pdf TL -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Lubin, Tim Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 11:44 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Indische Studien This volume is available here: http://ia600301.us.archive.org/34/items/indischestudien07gesegoog/indischestudien07gesegoog.pdf Internet Archive has quite a number of volumes: http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=indische%20studien These are mostly from Google, but not all of them are still available from Google directly, and people outside the U.S. often cannot get access to the free Google books, but Internet Archive has their own archived copy of the pdf under the link: All Files: http Tim -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Arlo Griffiths Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 7:26 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indische Studien Can anyone point me to or supply to me pdf of Hermann Oldenberg's edition of the "Saa"nkhaayanag.rhyasuutra that appeared inIndische Studien 15?(1878), or, better still, to a complete set of the Indische Studien (if this series has already been digitized completely)? Many thanks! Arlo Griffiths (EFEO/Jakarta) !SIG:4db79123218711189042906! From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Wed Apr 27 12:25:29 2011 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 11 14:25:29 +0200 Subject: Kokila Sandesha In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092325.23782.17664607201130216061.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1369 Lines: 45 Here are the editions and translations I know of the Kokila-sa.mde/sa : 1?) ed. T.K. Kri.s.na Menon, Rantu sande/sa;n;nal, Trichur: Keralakalpadrumam Press, 1903 (with the /Sukasande/sa + Malayalam translation by Ko.tu;n;naluur Ku??ikku.t.tan Tampuraan) 2?) ed. P.S. Anantanaaraaya.na /Saastrii, Kokilasande/sa, Trichur: Mangalodayam Press, 1913, repr. 1939 3?) crit. ed. N.P. Unni, Kokilasande/sa of Udda.n.da, Trivandrum: College Book House, 1972; rev. ed. Trivandrum: Keralasamsk.rtam Publications, 1997 4?) transl. and comment. Paul Martin-Dubost, Po?mes d'amour du Kerala, Paris: Les Belles Lettres (Collection ?Le Monde indien?), 1983. >Is anyone able to help me find Uddanda Shastri's >Kokila Sandesha? There was an edition published >by Dr NP Unni from Trivandrum I think and >possibly others but I am unable to track down >any edition or version of the text. > >Thank you very much in advance > >Venetia -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ http://www.uclouvain.be/356389.html -- Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of storage free. http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM Wed Apr 27 11:26:53 2011 From: venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM (venetia ansell) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 11 16:56:53 +0530 Subject: Kokila Sandesha Message-ID: <161227092319.23782.5693625484083218269.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 438 Lines: 12 Is anyone able to help me find Uddanda Shastri's Kokila Sandesha? There was an edition published by Dr NP Unni from Trivandrum I think and possibly others but I am unable to track down any edition or version of the text. Thank you very much in advance Venetia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at KHECARI.COM Thu Apr 28 13:42:09 2011 From: jim at KHECARI.COM (James Mallinson) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 11 14:42:09 +0100 Subject: Identification of rivers Message-ID: <161227092328.23782.14989035227630338988.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 964 Lines: 28 Dear list, In a chapter on micro/macrocosmic equivalents in the Siddhasiddh?ntapaddhati, which, because of parallel passages in other works, I suspect has at least a connection with Kashmir, we find the following list of nine rivers: p?nas? yamun? ga?g? candrabh?g? sarasvat?| vip??? ?atarudr? ca ?r?r?tri? caiva narmad? ||3.11|| The inclusion of the Candrabh?g? ( = Chenab ) and Vip??? ( = Beas ) with the more famous Yamun?, Ga?g?, Sarasvat? and Narmad? bolsters the Kashmir hypothesis. I am yet to identify the remaining three rivers, P?nas?, ?atarudr? and ?r?r?tri. There is a variant p?t?sa for p?nas? and it has been suggested that they might be corruptions of Vitast? ( = Jhelum). ?atarudr? might be a corruption of ?atadru ( = Sutlej). I have no ideas for ?r?r?tri; if the emendation ?atadru is correct, the ?dr? ca could be a corruption of part of the river?s name. Any suggestions gratefully received. Yours, Jim Mallinson From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Thu Apr 28 15:06:35 2011 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 11 17:06:35 +0200 Subject: Identification of rivers In-Reply-To: <1A2C2161-2EEF-466C-BA54-F45F22ED0F2C@khecari.com> Message-ID: <161227092330.23782.10094952963032754540.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1164 Lines: 34 Dear Jim, ?atarudr? (occurs also in the Matsyapur??a, see pw) is mentioned by Al-B?r?n? in his enumeration of rivers having their source in the Himavat (Sachau, Vol. 1: ch. 25). Sircar identifies it with the ?atadru river (Geography of Ancient and Medieval India 1971: 51, n. 3). > ?atarudr? might be a corruption of ?atadru ( = Sutlej). ?atadru/?dr? itself seems to be the result of post-vedic folk etymology (ved. ?utudr?, etc.), and the situation could have been similar with the formation of ?atarudr? (and possibly also with ?r?r?tri) as deliberate attempts of giving these rivers an easily comprehensible meaning. "Corruption" in the strict sense is perhaps not applicable to such names. Best, Walter ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From rdamron at BERKELEY.EDU Fri Apr 29 03:47:23 2011 From: rdamron at BERKELEY.EDU (Ryan Damron) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 11 20:47:23 -0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?an_=C4=81malak=C4=AB_in_the_palm_of_the_hand?= Message-ID: <161227092338.23782.12602577418327067705.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1438 Lines: 39 Dear all, I recently came across a reference to the ?malaki fruit in the Buddhist /Mah?m?y?tantra/ and in its commentary, the /Gu?avat?/ by Ratn?kara??nti. The citations are as follows: First from the root tantra, in Tibetan (there is no extant Sanskrit manuscript): /lag tu skyu ru ra bzhag bzhin/. Which Ratn?kara??nti glosses with: /svahaste sthitamekam?malakam yathetyartha?/ I initially took this to mean simply that the referent was as clear to the subject as a fruit placed in one's own hand. However, two Tibetan colleagues both asserted that the /?malak?/ fruit, as understood in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition at least, is a translucent fruit which reveals its inner structure to the subject (not my personal experience with the contemporary version of Amalaki fruit). Thus for a situation to be "like an /?malak?/ fruit in one's own hand" means one is able to see the referent inside and out, that is, in totality. My question then is this: is this analogy common in Indic traditions and, more importantly, are there any known references to these properties of the /?malak?/ in Sanskrit works? Much thanks, Ryan Ryan Damron Graduate Student Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies University of California, Berkeley -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Thu Apr 28 15:28:33 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 11 20:58:33 +0530 Subject: Identification of rivers In-Reply-To: <00029A51178E448AB204718FDEB50839@SlajePC> Message-ID: <161227092334.23782.16964073565579097177.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2106 Lines: 49 Dear Colleagues, The rivers originate in the Western Himalayas or some adjacent range and some of them flow thru Kashmir. But they flow down through Panjab/Haryana. So one cannot be definite about the Kashmir connection tho that is possible. Definite evidence is necessary before drawing a firm conclusion. There is a tendency among us to connect anything that might lie in or be just adjacent? to the regions surrounding Kashmir, to the? valley itself. But that may lead to unconscious errors.One has to be careful. Best wishes for all DB --- On Thu, 28/4/11, Walter Slaje wrote: From: Walter Slaje Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Identification of rivers To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Thursday, 28 April, 2011, 3:06 PM Dear Jim, ?atarudr? (occurs also in the Matsyapur??a, see pw) is mentioned by Al-B?r?n? in his enumeration of rivers having their source in the Himavat (Sachau, Vol. 1: ch. 25). Sircar identifies it with the ?atadru river (Geography of Ancient and Medieval India 1971: 51, n. 3). > ?atarudr? might be a corruption of ?atadru ( = Sutlej). ?atadru/?dr? itself seems to be the result of post-vedic folk etymology (ved. ?utudr?, etc.), and the situation could have been similar with the formation of ?atarudr? (and possibly also with ?r?r?tri) as deliberate attempts of giving these rivers an easily comprehensible meaning. "Corruption" in the strict sense is perhaps not applicable to such names. Best, Walter ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spootland at HOTMAIL.COM Fri Apr 29 07:11:36 2011 From: spootland at HOTMAIL.COM (DiSimone Charles) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 11 00:11:36 -0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOL_OGY]_an_=C4=81m_alak=C4=AB_in_t_he_palm_of______________the_hand?= In-Reply-To: <4DBA34CB.6020907@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227092345.23782.1131946679550803703.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2306 Lines: 74 Hi Ryan, A cursory google search reveals a similar phrase in the Bh?gavata Pur??a at 2.5.3: kar?malakavadvi?vam, or something like 'everything is just like an ?malaka fruit in hand.' So, at least the this fruit appears to be a known object of comparison. I can't speak for the translucent qualities of this particular fruit however. Skyu ru ra seems to mean 'something that is perfectly clear in front of the eyes,' whether perfectly clear refers to vegetal translucence or visibility is a matter of some opaqueness it would seem... Charlie DiSimone Stanford University Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 20:47:23 -0700 From: rdamron at BERKELEY.EDU Subject: [INDOLOGY] an ?malak? in the palm of the hand To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Dear all, I recently came across a reference to the ?malaki fruit in the Buddhist Mah?m?y?tantra and in its commentary, the Gu?avat? by Ratn?kara??nti. The citations are as follows: First from the root tantra, in Tibetan (there is no extant Sanskrit manuscript): lag tu skyu ru ra bzhag bzhin. Which Ratn?kara??nti glosses with: svahaste sthitamekam?malakam yathetyartha? I initially took this to mean simply that the referent was as clear to the subject as a fruit placed in one's own hand. However, two Tibetan colleagues both asserted that the ?malak? fruit, as understood in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition at least, is a translucent fruit which reveals its inner structure to the subject (not my personal experience with the contemporary version of Amalaki fruit). Thus for a situation to be "like an ?malak? fruit in one's own hand" means one is able to see the referent inside and out, that is, in totality. My question then is this: is this analogy common in Indic traditions and, more importantly, are there any known references to these properties of the ?malak? in Sanskrit works? Much thanks, Ryan Ryan Damron Graduate Student Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies University of California, Berkeley -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From straube at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE Fri Apr 29 07:51:39 2011 From: straube at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE (Martin Straube) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 11 09:51:39 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_an_=C4=81malak=C4=AB_in_the_palm_of_the_hand?= In-Reply-To: <4DBA34CB.6020907@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227092350.23782.3628825764250636996.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3195 Lines: 99 Dear Ryan, This ny?ya is quite common and it is used also with other fruits. In the Mok?op?ya (an older and more genuine Version of the Yogav?si??ha) both the ?malaka and the bilva fruit are frequently mentioned in this ny?ya -- just one example for both: yath? karatale bilva? yath? v? parvata? pura? / pratyak?am evam asy?lam ajatva? param?tmana? // (III.66.24) (forthcoming: J. Hanneder, P. Stephan, S. Jager [ed.], Mok?op?ya. Das dritte Buch. Utpattiprakara?a. Kritische Edition. [Anonymus Casmiriensis: Mok?op?ya. Historisch-kritische Gesamtausgabe unter der Leitung von Walter Slaje. Textedition. Band 2]. Wiesbaden 2011) kar?malakavadd???asa?s?r?s?ras?ra he / j??n?m?tamah?mbhodhe mune sv?gatam astu te // (VI.226.18) (B. Lo Turco [ed.], Mok?op?ya-??ka of Bh?skaraka??ha. The fragments of the Nirv??aprakara?a. Critical edition. Halle 2011) Cf. also Aptes Collection of Popular Sanskrit Maxims (karavinyastabilvany?ya). Possibly this ny?ya is based on the rather big size of the fruits, perhaps also on their eye-catching colour. In this connection the following stanza from O. Boehtlingk's ?Indische Sprueche? (No. 2045) could be interesting: khala? sar?apam?tr??i paracchidr??i pa?yati / ?tmano bilvam?tr??i pa?yann api na pa?yati // In the first stanza of Subandhus V?savadatta even the badara fruit is used in the same ny?ya: karabadarasad??am akhila? bhuvanatala? yatpras?data? kavaya? / pa?yanti s?k?mamataya? s? jayati sarasvat? dev? // Best wishes, Martin Zitat von Ryan Damron : > Dear all, > > I recently came across a reference to the ?malaki fruit in the > Buddhist /Mah?m?y?tantra/ and in its commentary, the /Gu?avat?/ by > Ratn?kara??nti. The citations are as follows: > > First from the root tantra, in Tibetan (there is no extant Sanskrit > manuscript): /lag tu skyu ru ra bzhag bzhin/. > > Which Ratn?kara??nti glosses with: /svahaste sthitamekam?malakam > yathetyartha?/ > > I initially took this to mean simply that the referent was as clear > to the subject as a fruit placed in one's own hand. However, two > Tibetan colleagues both asserted that the /?malak?/ fruit, as > understood in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition at least, is a > translucent fruit which reveals its inner structure to the subject > (not my personal experience with the contemporary version of Amalaki > fruit). Thus for a situation to be "like an /?malak?/ fruit in > one's own hand" means one is able to see the referent inside and > out, that is, in totality. My question then is this: is this > analogy common in Indic traditions and, more importantly, are there > any known references to these properties of the /?malak?/ in > Sanskrit works? > > Much thanks, > > Ryan > > > Ryan Damron > Graduate Student > Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies > University of California, Berkeley > > -- Dr. Martin Straube Martin-Luther-Universit?t Halle-Wittenberg Seminar f?r Indologie Emil-Abderhalden-Str. 9 D-06099 Halle (Saale) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Philipps-Universit?t Marburg Fachgebiet Indologie und Tibetologie Deutschhausstr. 12 D-35032 Marburg www.uni-marburg.de/indologie From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Fri Apr 29 08:30:14 2011 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 11 10:30:14 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOL_OGY]_an_=C4=81m__alak=C4=AB_in_t_he_palm______________of__the_hand?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092353.23782.11080525880022290428.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2890 Lines: 106 Greetings from Pondicherry, the comparison is apparently also found in the Teevaaram, a collection of Tamil hymns to Siva, possibly dating back to the 7th and 8th centuries. See: "http://www.ifpindia.org/ecrire/upload/digital_database/Site/Digital_Tevaram/U_TEV/VMS5_072.HTM#p2" The text reads: "kaiyil aamalakak kan_i okkumee" (teevaaram, 5-72, 2) The normal Tamil name of that fruit is "nelli" -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (EFEO/CNRS) On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 00:11:36 -0700 DiSimone Charles wrote: > > Hi Ryan, > > A cursory google search reveals a similar phrase in the Bh?gavata >Pur??a at 2.5.3: kar?malakavadvi?vam, or something like 'everything >is just like an ?malaka fruit in hand.' So, at least the this fruit >appears to be a known object of comparison. I can't speak for the >translucent qualities of this particular fruit however. Skyu ru ra >seems to mean 'something that is perfectly clear in front of the >eyes,' whether perfectly clear refers to vegetal translucence or >visibility is a matter of some opaqueness it would seem... > > Charlie DiSimone > Stanford University > > > > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 20:47:23 -0700 >From: rdamron at BERKELEY.EDU > Subject: [INDOLOGY] an ?malak? in the palm of the hand > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > I recently came across a reference to the ?malaki fruit in the > Buddhist Mah?m?y?tantra and in its commentary, the Gu?avat? > by Ratn?kara??nti. The citations are as follows: > > > > First from the root tantra, in Tibetan (there is no extant >Sanskrit > manuscript): lag tu skyu ru ra bzhag bzhin. > > > > Which Ratn?kara??nti glosses with: svahaste sthitamekam?malakam > yathetyartha? > > > > I initially took this to mean simply that the referent was as >clear > to the subject as a fruit placed in one's own hand. However, two > Tibetan colleagues both asserted that the ?malak? fruit, as > understood in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition at least, is a > translucent fruit which reveals its inner structure to the >subject > (not my personal experience with the contemporary version of >Amalaki > fruit). Thus for a situation to be "like an ?malak? fruit > in one's own hand" means one is able to see the referent inside >and > out, that is, in totality. My question then is this: is this > analogy common in Indic traditions and, more importantly, are >there > any known references to these properties of the ?malak? in > Sanskrit works? > > > > Much thanks, > > > > Ryan > > > Ryan Damron > Graduate Student > Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies > University of California, Berkeley From Michael.Radich at VUW.AC.NZ Fri Apr 29 04:33:03 2011 From: Michael.Radich at VUW.AC.NZ (Michael Radich) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 11 16:33:03 +1200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_an_=C4=81malak=C4=AB_in_the_palm_of_the_hand?= In-Reply-To: <4DBA34CB.6020907@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227092342.23782.2179554186766741393.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 487 Lines: 24 Dear Ryan, > I recently came across a reference to the ?malaki fruit . . . I believe this article is relevant to your query. Wayman, Alex. "Notes on the Three Myrobalans." Phi Theta Annual 5 (1954/55): 63-77. Best wishes, Michael Dr Michael Radich Senior Lecturer, Religious Studies Victoria University of Wellington PO Box 600, Wellington 6012, New Zealand Office: Room 216, Hunter Building, Kelburn Parade ph:(64 4) 463 9477 Fax: (64 4) 463 5065 michael.radich at vuw.ac.nz From andrew.nicholson at STONYBROOK.EDU Sat Apr 30 12:26:28 2011 From: andrew.nicholson at STONYBROOK.EDU (Andrew Nicholson) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 11 08:26:28 -0400 Subject: Indian Publication Announcement Message-ID: <161227092357.23782.16687124645748930172.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3341 Lines: 73 Dear Indology-L, For my Indian colleagues I am happy to announce that an Indian edition of my book, Unifying Hinduism: Philosophy and Identity in Indian Intellectual History, is now available From Permanent Black Press. More information on the Indian edition is here: http://bit.ly/gkjMdL I was also recently interviewed about my book for the Permanent Black website. That interview is here: http://bit.ly/g8IXPM With best wishes, Andrew ______________________________________________ Andrew J. Nicholson Assistant Professor Department of Asian and Asian American Studies Stony Brook University Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343 USA Tel: (631) 632-4030 Fax: (631) 632-4098 Nicholson, Andrew J. Unifying Hinduism: Philosophy and Identity in Indian Intellectual History (South Asia Across the Disciplines Series). New Delhi: Permanent Black, 2011. Book Description: Some postcolonial theorists argue that the idea of a single system of belief known as "Hinduism" is a creation of nineteenth-century British imperialists. Andrew J. Nicholson introduces another perspective: although a unified Hindu identity is not as ancient as some Hindus claim, it has its roots in innovations within South Asian philosophy from the fourteenth to seventeenth centuries. During this time, thinkers treated the philosophies of Vedanta, Samkhya, and Yoga, along with the worshippers of Visnu, Siva, and Sakti, as belonging to a single system of belief and practice. Instead of seeing such groups as separate and contradictory, they re-envisioned them as separate rivers leading to the ocean of Brahman, the ultimate reality. Drawing on the writings of philosophers from late medieval and early modern traditions, including Vijnanabhiksu, Madhava, and Madhusudana Sarasvati, Nicholson shows how influential thinkers portrayed Vedanta philosophy as the ultimate unifier of diverse belief systems. This project paved the way for the work of later Hindu reformers, such as Vivekananda, Radhakrishnan, and Gandhi, whose teachings promoted the notion that all world religions belong to a single spiritual unity. In his study, Nicholson also critiques the way in which Eurocentric concepts--like monism and dualism, idealism and realism, theism and atheism, and orthodoxy and heterodoxy--have come to dominate modern discourses on Indian philosophy. Reviews: "Unifying Hinduism does much more than deal with the philosophy of Vijnanabhiksu, it questions in an intelligent and constructive manner how Indian philosophy has been studied in modern scholarship?-and ways in which it has been done wrong." -- Johannes Bronkhorst, University of Lausanne, Switzerland "Andrew J. Nicholson's courageous and challenging thesis is that processes of unification were at work in early modern India, particularly in the attempt by Vedanta philosophers to create hierarchies of philosophical schools, and these processes 'made possible the world religion later known by the name Hinduism.' Unifying Hinduism is a fluent, eminently readable, and absorbing study of a period in Indian intellectual history that fully deserves the attention it is now receiving." -- Jonardon Ganeri, University of Sussex -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA Sat Apr 30 15:06:36 2011 From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 11 11:06:36 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_an_=C4=81malak=C4=AB_in_the__palm_of_th_e_hand?= In-Reply-To: <76236A2EDF5F44D7951F7FA811BF2E23@zen> Message-ID: <161227092365.23782.7384449826851565024.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2574 Lines: 90 A student of mine, to whom I forwarded the AmalakI postings sent the following, which I find illuminating: "It is the gooseberry and some varieties you can almost see through. It occurs many times in the Pali writings and in the commentary by Buddhaghosa does have this meaning. One instance is his commentary on Digha Nikaya, Brahmajaalasutta (PTS I, 02) The Pali reads (in Walshe's translation) "It is wonderful, friends, it is marvellous how the Blessed Lord, the Arahant, the fully enlighted Buddha knows, sees and clearly distinguishes the different inclination of beings!" and the commentary comments as follows; tena bhagavataa jaanataa ... pe ... suppa.tividitaa ti etthaaya.m sa"nkhepattho. yo so bhagavaa samati.msa paaramiyo puuretvaa sabbakilese bha~njitvaa anuttara.m sammaasambodhi.m abhisambuddho, tena bhagavataa tesa.m tesa.m sattaana.m aasayaanusaya.m jaanataa,hatthatale .thapita.m aamalaka.m viya sabba~neyyadhamma.m passataa . (1, 0043) where Buddhaghosa says (roughly translated) "known by the Blessed One .... up to (pe) clearly distinguishes". Here is a condensed meaning (sa"nkhepattho). The Blessed One after fulfilling the thirty perfections, haveing destroyed all the afflictions, has achieved unsurpassed enightenment, by knowing the inclinations and predispositions of all beings, by seeing all the dharmas to be known like a gooseberry placed in the palm of one's hand... There are lots of other references which the person interested could look up, but it will take some time, Best, Bryan -- Stella Sandahl ssandahl at sympatico.ca On 30-Apr-11, at 11:04 AM, Stephen Hodge wrote: > This example of the "amla in the hand" is also mentioned in the > early core > portion of the Mah?y?na Mah?parinirv??a-s?tra, which I date > to mid-late c1st > CE: > > ?????????????????????? > ?????? > > [Faxian/Buddhabhadra] > > ?????????????????????? > ?????????????????????? > ?? > > [Dharmak?ema] > > zhes bya ba ni ji > ltar mi'i > 'chang par skyu ru ra gzung du yod pa bzhin du thar pa ni de dang > 'dra bar > ci yang gzung du med do || > > I have found that many of the examples in this sutra have Agamic > antecedants > and this may also be the case here ~ in one of the other > collections if not > in the Pali Nik?yas. > > Best wishes, > > Stephen Hodge > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jwn3y at CMS.MAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU Sat Apr 30 19:28:18 2011 From: jwn3y at CMS.MAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU (John William Nemec) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 11 15:28:18 -0400 Subject: Pandit Hemendra Nath Chakravarty passed away In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092374.23782.3476492503651343592.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1601 Lines: 40 Dear Mrinal, Thank you for sharing this sad news. I last saw Panditji in 2008, on his 90th birthday. He was a good soul, and I learned a lot from him studying "Saiva tantric texts for half a year in 2002-2003. He will be missed. John Nemec On Thu, 21 Apr 2011 13:00:13 -0400 Mrinal Kaul wrote: >Obituary : Pandit Hemendra Nath Chakravarty (Varanasi) > >It is with a heavy heart that I am announcing the death of Pandit Hemendra Nath Chakravarty (Varanasi), a pandit par excellence and a wonderful human being. He was a student of Gopinath Kaviraj and learnt many ?aiva texts with him besides the Ny?ya??stra. He taught many Indologists and helped many of us learning the texts of Abhinavagupta. He worked for long term projects with Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts (Varanasi) and contributed immensely in the series of the Kal?tattvako?a. He kept on teaching many of his students till his last breath. His annotated English translation of the Tantras?ra of Abhinavagupta is still awaited. > >May his soul rest in peace. > >Mrinal Kaul > > >************************ >Mrinal Kaul >"Ro'ni Ph'ol" ># 37/4 - Pandoka Colony >Paloura, Jammu (Kashmir) - 181121 >Jammu & Kashmir State, India >************************* >Tel: +91-191-253-2549 >e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org __________________________________ John Nemec, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Indian Religions and South Asian Studies Dept. of Religious Studies University of Virginia 323 Gibson Hall / 1540 Jefferson Park Avenue Charlottesville, VA 22903 (USA) nemec at virginia.edu +1-434-924-6716 From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM Sat Apr 30 15:04:48 2011 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 11 16:04:48 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_an_=C4=81malak=C4=AB_in_the__palm_of_the_hand?= Message-ID: <161227092362.23782.17626028479821362834.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 656 Lines: 26 This example of the "amla in the hand" is also mentioned in the early core portion of the Mah?y?na Mah?parinirv??a-s?tra, which I date to mid-late c1st CE: ???????????????????????????? [Faxian/Buddhabhadra] ?????????????????????????????????????????????? [Dharmak?ema] zhes bya ba ni ji ltar mi'i 'chang par skyu ru ra gzung du yod pa bzhin du thar pa ni de dang 'dra bar ci yang gzung du med do || I have found that many of the examples in this sutra have Agamic antecedants and this may also be the case here ~ in one of the other collections if not in the Pali Nik?yas. Best wishes, Stephen Hodge From peter.szanto at MERTON.OX.AC.UK Sat Apr 30 19:39:54 2011 From: peter.szanto at MERTON.OX.AC.UK (Peter Szanto) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 11 20:39:54 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_an_=C4=81malak=C4=AB_in_the_palm_of_th_e_hand?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092377.23782.3682863180602011291.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4634 Lines: 64 Dear readers, While I do not want to commit myself to any of the siddh?ntas expressed here, I believe these two passages (sadly, surviving only in Tibetan) merit consideration: T?h. 1373 *?a?a?gayogapa?jik? of Avadh?t?p?da (244r) de ltar mthong ba'i rnal 'byor ba de ni rnam pa thams cad mkhyen pa'i sku des ni khams gsum ma lus pa skyu ru ra lag mthil du bzhag pa bzhin du thams cad sa ler mkhyen pa'o || chu nang nyi ltar rab snang ba || dri ma med pa'i sna tshogs mdog | rnam pa kun du rang gi sems || gzhan gyi sems min rang gi sems || rang gi sems yin bde ba nyid || gzhan gyi sems min bde ba yin || yul dang rnam par bral ba yin || rang bde yid kyi nyams myong ba || gzhan gyi sems bde chen po'i phyir || bde ba bstan du mi btub bo || zhes 'byung ngo || T?h. 1415 Vajra??kaviv?ti of Bhavabha??a (82v) rdo rje mig gis mthong bar 'gyur || zhes bya ba la rdo rje ni shin tu rno ba ste | gsal zhing dri ma med pa des mthong ba'o || ji ltar zhe na | lag tu shing tog bzhag pa bzhin te lag pa'i mthil na gnas pa'i skyu ru ra'i 'bras bu ltar ro || The `Tibetan idea' of transparency could have been induced by passages such as the first one (note that `sa ler' is ambivalent, it can mean both `entirely' and `clearly'). Well, by using the word induced I guess I do find myself more in agreement with what Dominik Wujastyk wrote below. With best regards, Peter ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk [wujastyk at GMAIL.COM] Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 8:21 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] an ?malak? in the palm of the hand Dear Ryan, In my view, your Tibetan colleagues are simply wrong. Or else they are in receipt some odd tradition that has strayed far from the original meaning of the ?malaka-in-the-hand simile, and got lost on the way. The ?malaka/? is and was the Emblic myrobalan (Emblica officinalis, Gaertn.). There are many pictures on the web, and even one of some emblics in someone's hands: here. Emblics are a common fruit in South Asia, and have been so for over two millennia. The word "emblic" was very common in English amongst the British in India, as it was a well-known, fruit often consumed daily. Many references in Hobson-Jobson (who also asserts on good authorities that Skt. ?malaka is the origin of the name of the Malay city Malacca!). My subjective impression is that British Indian authors referred to emblics more or less as one might today refer to an apple. "Emblic" wasn't at all a rare word (or fruit). The simile is just, as you say, something totally obvious. Think, "as plain as an apple in the palm of your hand." I think we can just set aside all talk of transparency and inner structure. (I also think that the idea that something with an exterior can in some sense be explained by reference to its inner structure is probably a rather modern idea, and probably not Sanskritic at all. At the very least, it should be questioned, as a concept. Ask, with what vocabularly would such a concept be expressed in Sanskrit?) Best, Dominik On 29 April 2011 07:47, Ryan Damron > wrote: Dear all, I recently came across a reference to the ?malaki fruit in the Buddhist Mah?m?y?tantra and in its commentary, the Gu?avat? by Ratn?kara??nti. The citations are as follows: First from the root tantra, in Tibetan (there is no extant Sanskrit manuscript): lag tu skyu ru ra bzhag bzhin. Which Ratn?kara??nti glosses with: svahaste sthitamekam?malakam yathetyartha? I initially took this to mean simply that the referent was as clear to the subject as a fruit placed in one's own hand. However, two Tibetan colleagues both asserted that the ?malak? fruit, as understood in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition at least, is a translucent fruit which reveals its inner structure to the subject (not my personal experience with the contemporary version of Amalaki fruit). Thus for a situation to be "like an ?malak? fruit in one's own hand" means one is able to see the referent inside and out, that is, in totality. My question then is this: is this analogy common in Indic traditions and, more importantly, are there any known references to these properties of the ?malak? in Sanskrit works? Much thanks, Ryan Ryan Damron Graduate Student Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies University of California, Berkeley From selwyn at NTLWORLD.COM Sat Apr 30 20:17:06 2011 From: selwyn at NTLWORLD.COM (L.S. Cousins) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 11 21:17:06 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_an_=C4=81malak=C4=AB_in_the_palm_of_th_e_hand?= In-Reply-To: <4DBA34CB.6020907@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227092381.23782.14975657788493939033.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1020 Lines: 26 Ryan Damron asked: > Thus for a situation to be "like an /?malak?/ fruit in one's own > hand" means one is able to see the referent inside and out, that is, > in totality. My question then is this: is this analogy common in > Indic traditions and, more importantly, are there any known references > to these properties of the /?malak?/ in Sanskrit works? References to seeing something as clearly as an ?malaka in the hand are quite common in Pali commentaries from Buddhaghosa on. It is usually explained in terms of clear or plain seeing or in terms of direct experience. However, the older ??k? to the Abhidhamm?vat?ra glosses the final p?da of Abhidh-av v. 181: ekavidh?dinaye pan' imasmi?, yo kusalo matim? idha bhikkhu. tassabhidhammagat? pana atth?, hatthagat?malak? viya honti || with: *hatthagat?* hatthapavi??h? *?malak? viya* suddhama?ik? viya honti. So the ?malaka is compared to a clear gem. That seems somewhat parallel to the Tibetan interpretation. Lance Cousins, Wolfson College, Oxford From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sat Apr 30 19:21:02 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 11 23:21:02 +0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_an_=C4=81malak=C4=AB_in_the_palm_of_the_hand?= In-Reply-To: <4DBA34CB.6020907@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227092370.23782.6736070220839325814.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3201 Lines: 78 Dear Ryan, In my view, your Tibetan colleagues are simply wrong. Or else they are in receipt some odd tradition that has strayed far from the original meaning of the ?malaka-in-the-hand simile, and got lost on the way. The ?malaka/? is and was the Emblic myrobalan (Emblica officinalis, Gaertn.). There are many pictures on the web, and even one of some emblics in someone's hands: here . Emblics are a common fruit in South Asia, and have been so for over two millennia. The word "emblic" was very common in English amongst the British in India, as it was a well-known, fruit often consumed daily. Many references in Hobson-Jobson(who also asserts on good authorities that Skt. ?malaka is the origin of the name of the Malay city Malacca!). My subjective impression is that British Indian authors referred to emblics more or less as one might today refer to an apple. "Emblic" wasn't at all a rare word (or fruit). The simile is just, as you say, something totally obvious. Think, "as plain as an apple in the palm of your hand." I think we can just set aside all talk of transparency and inner structure. (I also think that the idea that something with an exterior can in some sense be explained by reference to its inner structure is probably a rather modern idea, and probably not Sanskritic at all. At the very least, it should be questioned, as a concept. Ask, with what vocabularly would such a concept be expressed in Sanskrit?) Best, Dominik On 29 April 2011 07:47, Ryan Damron wrote: > Dear all, > > I recently came across a reference to the ?malaki fruit in the Buddhist * > Mah?m?y?tantra* and in its commentary, the *Gu?avat?* by Ratn?kara??nti. > The citations are as follows: > > First from the root tantra, in Tibetan (there is no extant Sanskrit > manuscript): *lag tu skyu ru ra bzhag bzhin*. > > Which Ratn?kara??nti glosses with: *svahaste sthitamekam?malakam > yathetyartha?* > > I initially took this to mean simply that the referent was as clear to the > subject as a fruit placed in one's own hand. However, two Tibetan > colleagues both asserted that the *?malak?* fruit, as understood in the > Tibetan Buddhist tradition at least, is a translucent fruit which reveals > its inner structure to the subject (not my personal experience with the > contemporary version of Amalaki fruit). Thus for a situation to be "like an > *?malak?* fruit in one's own hand" means one is able to see the referent > inside and out, that is, in totality. My question then is this: is this > analogy common in Indic traditions and, more importantly, are there any > known references to these properties of the *?malak?* in Sanskrit works? > > Much thanks, > > Ryan > > Ryan Damron > Graduate Student > Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies > University of California, Berkeley > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adheesh1 at GMAIL.COM Fri Aug 5 16:01:37 2011 From: adheesh1 at GMAIL.COM (Adheesh Sathaye) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 11 09:01:37 -0700 Subject: taxonomy question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093326.23782.11738079742219618967.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1007 Lines: 37 Dear James, In the epics, the phrase "car?cara" (mobile/immobile) is quite common--see for example Bhagavad-g?t? 10.39: yac c?pi sarvabh?t?n?? b?ja? tad aham arjuna | na tad asti vin? yat sy?n may? bh?ta? car?caram || All best wishes, Adheesh ---- Adheesh Sathaye Department of Asian Studies University of British Columbia On Aug 5, 2011, at 8:36 AM, James Hartzell wrote: > HI > > A colleague has asked me the following question, and I thought some on this list might readily know the answer: > > 'Do you have in Sanskrit a conceptual dichotomy that corresponds to living/non-living or animate/inanimate? > What exactly does the taxonomy look like? (is the opposition something like human vs. animals vs plants vs material objects, or human and animal vs. plants vs material objects or human and animal and plant vs. material objects, or otherwise?)' > > Cheers > James Hartzell > Guest Researcher > CIMeC, Center for Mind/Brain Sciences > University of Trento > Mattarello, TN, Italy > > From zysk at HUM.KU.DK Fri Aug 5 07:40:30 2011 From: zysk at HUM.KU.DK (Kenneth Zysk) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 11 09:40:30 +0200 Subject: Help Message-ID: <161227093313.23782.17200679051544336570.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 633 Lines: 19 Does anyone happen to have a Sanskrit index to K.N. Dave's Birds in Sanskrit Literature? I have the older version with only the English index. I should appreciate it if someone could send it to me. Many thank, Ken Kenneth Zysk, PhD, DPhil Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Asian Studies Section Artillerivej 86 DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark Ph: +45 3532 8951 Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM Fri Aug 5 15:36:44 2011 From: james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM (James Hartzell) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 11 11:36:44 -0400 Subject: taxonomy question Message-ID: <161227093317.23782.10869628779273497661.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 765 Lines: 23 HI A colleague has asked me the following question, and I thought some on this list might readily know the answer: 'Do you have in Sanskrit a conceptual dichotomy that corresponds to living/non-living or animate/inanimate? What exactly does the taxonomy look like? (is the opposition something like human vs. animals vs plants vs material objects, or human and animal vs. plants vs material objects or human and animal and plant vs. material objects, or otherwise?)' Cheers James Hartzell Guest Researcher CIMeC, Center for Mind/Brain Sciences University of Trento Mattarello, TN, Italy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Fri Aug 5 18:39:32 2011 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 11 11:39:32 -0700 Subject: taxonomy question In-Reply-To: <6326_1312558618_1312558618_CAKA8X40yMDNKtjPrmpeP6seMPGO4hYg7nDoJwdkxoeGo+M1mJw@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227093340.23782.14666601200714444058.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 474 Lines: 15 cetana (or sacetana) and acetana are found. anta.h-sa.mj;na and bahi.h-sa.mj;na should also be taken into account. Lambert Schmithausen's writings on the sentience of plants are useful in this regard. See also Albrecht Wezler. 1987. "On the term anta.h-sa.mj;na." ABORI LXVIII: 111-131. ashok aklujkar On 2011-08-05, at 8:36 AM, James Hartzell wrote: > 'Do you have in Sanskrit a conceptual dichotomy that corresponds to living/non-living or animate/inanimate? > From james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM Fri Aug 5 16:05:49 2011 From: james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM (James Hartzell) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 11 12:05:49 -0400 Subject: taxonomy question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093329.23782.7981276242507701975.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1748 Lines: 62 Thanks Adheesh, I'd forgotten about "car?cara" (mobile/immobile), and thanks for the reference. Can we state then that what we modern folks call inanimate objects, as well as plants, fit the acara category, and then all animals and humans fit the cara category? Or are there other distinctions? My linguist colleague has clarified that she's looking specifically for the linguistic taxonomy of this. Cheers James On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Adheesh Sathaye wrote: > Dear James, > > In the epics, the phrase "car?cara" (mobile/immobile) is quite common--see > for example Bhagavad-g?t? 10.39: > yac c?pi sarvabh?t?n?? b?ja? tad aham arjuna | > na tad asti vin? yat sy?n may? bh?ta? car?caram || > > > All best wishes, > > Adheesh > > > ---- > Adheesh Sathaye > Department of Asian Studies > University of British Columbia > > On Aug 5, 2011, at 8:36 AM, James Hartzell wrote: > > > HI > > > > A colleague has asked me the following question, and I thought some on > this list might readily know the answer: > > > > 'Do you have in Sanskrit a conceptual dichotomy that corresponds to > living/non-living or animate/inanimate? > > What exactly does the taxonomy look like? (is the opposition something > like human vs. animals vs plants vs material objects, or human and animal > vs. plants vs material objects or human and animal and plant vs. material > objects, or otherwise?)' > > > > Cheers > > James Hartzell > > Guest Researcher > > CIMeC, Center for Mind/Brain Sciences > > University of Trento > > Mattarello, TN, Italy > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Fri Aug 5 17:47:35 2011 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 11 12:47:35 -0500 Subject: taxonomy question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093335.23782.4872688216427331694.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 357 Lines: 13 The term ja.da is used, at least in Buddhist tantric sources (esp. in the Kaalacakra cycle), to mean "inanimate" or, perhaps more accurately, "insentient." The exact opposite is aja.da. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From m.b.jones at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU Fri Aug 5 18:24:27 2011 From: m.b.jones at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (Michael Brattus Jones) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 11 13:24:27 -0500 Subject: taxonomy question Message-ID: <161227093337.23782.18232123839160666052.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2810 Lines: 92 Here is an interesting binary classification in two levels, though it doesn't situate humans in juxtaposition to the insentient, just to gods and animals. The Kau?ika S?tra mentions "the mother of gods and mortal beings," then, unpacking the latter term, "mortal beings," it specifies "mother of animals and men." bhartr? dev?n?m uta marty?n?? bhartr? praj?n?m uta m?nu????m | (Kau?S_13,14[106].7) [transliteration taken from Arlo Griffiths' GRETIL etext - thank you!] I hope it helps. Michael Brattus Jones mbjones at utexas.edu PhD Student, Dept. of Asian Studies University of Texas at Austin From: Herman Tull To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Friday, August 5, 2011 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question CU 5.10.8 sets up a taxonomy of sorts in its reference to the ?small things? (kshudrANi) that continually live and die in the round of rebirth, in distinction to men who attain one of the two paths after death (path of the gods, path of the fathers). Herman Tull From: James Hartzell Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 12:05 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question Thanks Adheesh, I'd forgotten about "car?cara" (mobile/immobile), and thanks for the reference. Can we state then that what we modern folks call inanimate objects, as well as plants, fit the acara category, and then all animals and humans fit the cara category? Or are there other distinctions? My linguist colleague has clarified that she's looking specifically for the linguistic taxonomy of this. Cheers James On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Adheesh Sathaye wrote: Dear James, In the epics, the phrase "car?cara" (mobile/immobile) is quite common--see for example Bhagavad-g?t? 10.39: yac c?pi sarvabh?t?n?? b?ja? tad aham arjuna | na tad asti vin? yat sy?n may? bh?ta? car?caram || All best wishes, Adheesh ---- Adheesh Sathaye Department of Asian Studies University of British Columbia On Aug 5, 2011, at 8:36 AM, James Hartzell wrote: > HI > > A colleague has asked me the following question, and I thought some on this list might readily know the answer: > > 'Do you have in Sanskrit a conceptual dichotomy that corresponds to living/non-living or animate/inanimate? > What exactly does the taxonomy look like? (is the opposition something like human vs. animals vs plants vs material objects, or human and animal vs. plants vs material objects or human and animal and plant vs. material objects, or otherwise?)' > > Cheers > James Hartzell > Guest Researcher > CIMeC, Center for Mind/Brain Sciences > University of Trento > Mattarello, TN, Italy > From hwtull at MSN.COM Fri Aug 5 17:26:40 2011 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 11 13:26:40 -0400 Subject: taxonomy question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093332.23782.2252830308586707797.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2130 Lines: 63 CU 5.10.8 sets up a taxonomy of sorts in its reference to the ?small things? (kshudrANi) that continually live and die in the round of rebirth, in distinction to men who attain one of the two paths after death (path of the gods, path of the fathers). Herman Tull From: James Hartzell Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 12:05 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question Thanks Adheesh, I'd forgotten about "car?cara" (mobile/immobile), and thanks for the reference. Can we state then that what we modern folks call inanimate objects, as well as plants, fit the acara category, and then all animals and humans fit the cara category? Or are there other distinctions? My linguist colleague has clarified that she's looking specifically for the linguistic taxonomy of this. Cheers James On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Adheesh Sathaye wrote: Dear James, In the epics, the phrase "car?cara" (mobile/immobile) is quite common--see for example Bhagavad-g?t? 10.39: yac c?pi sarvabh?t?n?? b?ja? tad aham arjuna | na tad asti vin? yat sy?n may? bh?ta? car?caram || All best wishes, Adheesh ---- Adheesh Sathaye Department of Asian Studies University of British Columbia On Aug 5, 2011, at 8:36 AM, James Hartzell wrote: > HI > > A colleague has asked me the following question, and I thought some on this list might readily know the answer: > > 'Do you have in Sanskrit a conceptual dichotomy that corresponds to living/non-living or animate/inanimate? > What exactly does the taxonomy look like? (is the opposition something like human vs. animals vs plants vs material objects, or human and animal vs. plants vs material objects or human and animal and plant vs. material objects, or otherwise?)' > > Cheers > James Hartzell > Guest Researcher > CIMeC, Center for Mind/Brain Sciences > University of Trento > Mattarello, TN, Italy > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athr at LOC.GOV Fri Aug 5 18:57:41 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 11 14:57:41 -0400 Subject: taxonomy question In-Reply-To: <333C8CD8-22A8-4CD6-9252-25981801865F@ubc.ca> Message-ID: <161227093342.23782.12349887675081785776.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3720 Lines: 101 Schmithausen's books recommended by Ashok, are: LC control no.: 2005353063 LCCN permalink: http://lccn.loc.gov/2005353063 Type of material: Book (Print, Microform, Electronic, etc.) Personal name: Schmithausen, Lambert. Main title: The problem of the sentience of plants in earliest Buddhism / Lambert Schmithausen. Published/Created: Tokyo : International Institute for Buddhist Studies, 1991. Description: 121 p. ; 26 cm. ISBN: 4906267246 Notes: Includes bibliographical references (p. 107-115) and index. Subjects: Plants in the Tripit?aka. Plants --Religious aspects --Buddhism. Buddhism --Doctrines. Series: Studia philologica Buddhica. Monograph series ; 6 LC control no.: 2010327203 LCCN permalink: http://lccn.loc.gov/2010327203 Type of material: Book (Print, Microform, Electronic, etc.) Personal name: Schmithausen, Lambert. Main title: Plants in early Buddhism and the far eastern idea of the Buddha-nature of grasses and trees / Lambert Schmithausen. Spine title: Plants in early Buddhism Published/Created: Lumbini : Lumbini International Research Institute, 2009. Related names: Lumbini International Research Institute. Description: 390 p. ; 25 cm. ISBN: 9789937217163 Notes: Includes bibliographical references ([341]-365) and index. Includes words in Chinese and Japanese. Subjects: Nature --Religious aspects --Buddhism. Plants --Religious aspects --Buddhism. Buddhism --Doctrines. Also, these that came up on a computer search might be useful: LC control no.: 93906672 LCCN permalink: http://lccn.loc.gov/93906672 Type of material: Book (Print, Microform, Electronic, etc.) Personal name: Malika, Harakis?ana. Main title: Vr?kshom? mem? ji?va?tma? / Harakis?ana Malika. Edition: Sam?skaran?a 1. Published/Created: Ajamera : S?ri?mati? Paropaka?rin?i? Sabha?, 1993. Description: 102 p. ; 19 cm. ISBN: Rs10.00 Summary: Author?s argument that plants have souls. Notes: In Hindi. Subjects: Jiva. Plants --Psychic aspects. Future life --Jainism. Immortality. Evolution --Religious aspects. LC control no.: 79912637 LCCN permalink: http://lccn.loc.gov/79912637 Type of material: Book (Print, Microform, Electronic, etc.) Personal name: Vidya?prabha?kara, Muni. Main title: Stha?vara-ji?va-mi?ma?m?sa? : artha?t, ?Vr?ksha jar?a haim?? na?maka pustaka ki? sami?ksha? / Muni Vidya?prabha?kara. Edition: 1. sam?skaran?a. Published/Created: Gurukula Jhajjhara : Haraya?n?a? Sa?hitya Sam?stha?na, 1970. Description: 150 p. ; 23 cm. Summary: An inquiry into the souls of plants. Notes: Cover title. In Hindi. Imprint corrected by label on cover: Gurukula Vidya?pi?t?ha, Rohataka. Includes bibliographical references. Subjects: S?a?stri?, Ompraka?s?a. Vr?ksha jar?a haim?. Arya-samaj --Doctrines. Plants --Psychic aspects. Evolution --Religious aspects. Future life --Jainism. Immortality. The last appears to be a response to a book by Omprakasa Sastri, "Vrksha jara haim," [Plants are without consciousness], which I can find in no library. There is a chapter "Dealing with sentience and violence in Hindu, Jain and Buddhist texts" in: LCCN permalink: http://lccn.loc.gov/2010018516 Type of material: Book (Print, Microform, Electronic, etc.) Personal name: Hall, Matthew, 1980- Main title: Plants as persons : a philosophical botany / Matthew Hall. Published/Created: Albany : State University of New York Press, c2011. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress 101 Independence Ave., S.W. Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Fri Aug 5 16:00:25 2011 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 11 18:00:25 +0200 Subject: GRETIL update #390 Message-ID: <161227093319.23782.5993137042675511472.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 652 Lines: 25 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Yama-Smrti This is the shortest version of the Yama-Smrti, containing 78 verses. (Plain text version, version with pada markers, pada index) __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm From martin.gansten at PBHOME.SE Fri Aug 5 16:15:58 2011 From: martin.gansten at PBHOME.SE (Martin Gansten) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 11 18:15:58 +0200 Subject: taxonomy question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093323.23782.15383020623023404777.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1121 Lines: 34 The universal Sanskrit dichotomy seems to be moving/nonmoving (car?cara, sth?vara-ja?gama, etc). In astrological texts one sometimes sees a division into mineral, vegetable and animal (dh?tu, m?la, j?va); but I?m not sure if that division is indigenous. Martin Gansten James Hartzell skrev 2011-08-05 17:36: > HI > > A colleague has asked me the following question, and I thought some on > this list might readily know the answer: > > 'Do you have in Sanskrit a conceptual dichotomy that corresponds to > living/non-living or animate/inanimate? > What exactly does the taxonomy look like? (is the opposition something > like human vs. animals vs plants vs material objects, or human and > animal vs. plants vs material objects or human and animal and plant > vs. material objects, or otherwise?)' > > Cheers > James Hartzell > Guest Researcher > CIMeC, Center for Mind/Brain Sciences > University of Trento > Mattarello, TN, Italy > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andra.kleb at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Fri Aug 5 21:03:01 2011 From: andra.kleb at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (Andrey Klebanov) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 11 23:03:01 +0200 Subject: taxonomy question In-Reply-To: <15546DDB-7144-461D-AA6F-297C531F3E36@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <161227093345.23782.8905689532198539241.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4224 Lines: 100 Dear members of the list! my sincere apologies for a series of my blank emails, which I have just noticed! not sure, how it could happen and whether it might be a bug in the "versions" feature of the new OS X Lion. what I thought to mention was a quotation from Su?rutasa?hit? that came to my mind by reading the word "dichotomy" and then Dr. Gangsten's mentioning of sth?vara-ja?gama. It also [most probably] places the human being (the object of medical applications and the main subject of medical science) - puru?a - outside of this classification. SS 1.1.22: ... loko hi dvividha? sth?varo ja?gama? ca dvividh?tmaka ev?gneya? saumya? ca ... tatra puru?a? pradh?na? tasyopakara?am anyat, tasm?t puru?o 'dhi??h?nam || and later on the origin of o?adhi-s 1.1.29 t?s?? sth?var?? caturvidh?? vanaspatayo v?k?? v?rudha o?adhaya iti | .... 1.1.30 ja?gam?? khalv api catuvidh?? jar?yuj???ajasvedajodbhijj?? | (just as a side-note: the distinction of sth?vara-ja?gama is more commonly found in medical treatises as a classification of poisons by the type of their carrier, see e.g. chapter 2 and 3 of SS Kalpasth?na) with my repeated apologies best Andrey On 05.08.2011, at 21:41, Andrey Klebanov wrote: > of > > On 05.08.2011, at 20:24, Michael Brattus Jones wrote: > >> Here is an interesting binary classification in two levels, though it doesn't situate humans in juxtaposition to the insentient, just to gods and animals. >> The Kau?ika S?tra mentions "the mother of gods and mortal beings," then, unpacking the latter term, "mortal beings," it specifies "mother of animals and men." >> >> bhartr? dev?n?m uta marty?n?? bhartr? praj?n?m uta m?nu????m | (Kau?S_13,14[106].7) >> [transliteration taken from Arlo Griffiths' GRETIL etext - thank you!] >> >> I hope it helps. >> >> Michael Brattus Jones >> mbjones at utexas.edu >> PhD Student, Dept. of Asian Studies >> University of Texas at Austin >> >> From: Herman Tull >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Sent: Friday, August 5, 2011 12:26 PM >> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question >> >> CU 5.10.8 sets up a taxonomy of sorts in its reference to the ?small things? (kshudrANi) that continually live and die in the round of rebirth, in distinction to men who attain one of the two paths after death (path of the gods, path of the fathers). >> >> Herman Tull >> >> From: James Hartzell >> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 12:05 PM >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question >> >> Thanks Adheesh, I'd forgotten about "car?cara" (mobile/immobile), and thanks for the reference. >> >> Can we state then that what we modern folks call inanimate objects, as well as plants, fit the acara category, and then all animals and humans fit the cara category? Or are there other distinctions? >> >> My linguist colleague has clarified that she's looking specifically for the linguistic taxonomy of this. >> >> Cheers >> James >> >> On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Adheesh Sathaye wrote: >> >> Dear James, >> >> In the epics, the phrase "car?cara" (mobile/immobile) is quite common--see for example Bhagavad-g?t? 10.39: >> yac c?pi sarvabh?t?n?? b?ja? tad aham arjuna | >> na tad asti vin? yat sy?n may? bh?ta? car?caram || >> >> >> All best wishes, >> >> Adheesh >> >> >> ---- >> Adheesh Sathaye >> Department of Asian Studies >> University of British Columbia >> >> On Aug 5, 2011, at 8:36 AM, James Hartzell wrote: >> >> > HI >> > >> > A colleague has asked me the following question, and I thought some on this list might readily know the answer: >> > >> > 'Do you have in Sanskrit a conceptual dichotomy that corresponds to living/non-living or animate/inanimate? >> > What exactly does the taxonomy look like? (is the opposition something like human vs. animals vs plants vs material objects, or human and animal vs. plants vs material objects or human and animal and plant vs. material objects, or otherwise?)' >> > >> > Cheers >> > James Hartzell >> > Guest Researcher >> > CIMeC, Center for Mind/Brain Sciences >> > University of Trento >> > Mattarello, TN, Italy >> > > From elisa.freschi at GMAIL.COM Sat Aug 6 10:27:15 2011 From: elisa.freschi at GMAIL.COM (elisa freschi) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 11 12:27:15 +0200 Subject: taxonomy question Message-ID: <161227093348.23782.13078150433015615657.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3117 Lines: 104 Dear James, I would add the distinction between "born from an uterus" (yoni-ja or jar?yuja), "born from an egg" (a??aja), "born from sweat/ warmth" (svedaja) and born from water (udbhijja). The latter group includes all sorts of plants. The four groups seem to include all living beings in common understanding, but some philosophical schools (I am thinking now of Pr?bh?k?ra M?m??s? texts specifically) oppose the view that also the latter ones are living beings and claim that they are just like stones (crystal may also grow, but are nonetheless non-living). yours elisa freschi Dr. Elisa Freschi research fellow of Sanskrit Facolt? di Studi Orientali Universit? di Roma 'La Sapienza' via Principe Amedeo 182b, 00185 Rome (Italy) fax +39 06 49385915 http://elisafreschi.blogspot.com http://uniroma.academia.edu/elisafreschi On 05/ago/11, at 19:26, Herman Tull wrote: > CU 5.10.8 sets up a taxonomy of sorts in its reference to the > ?small things? (kshudrANi) that continually live and die in the > round of rebirth, in distinction to men who attain one of the two > paths after death (path of the gods, path of the fathers). > > Herman Tull > > From: James Hartzell > Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 12:05 PM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question > > Thanks Adheesh, I'd forgotten about "car?cara" (mobile/immobile), > and thanks for the reference. > > Can we state then that what we modern folks call inanimate objects, > as well as plants, fit the acara category, and then all animals and > humans fit the cara category? Or are there other distinctions? > > My linguist colleague has clarified that she's looking specifically > for the linguistic taxonomy of this. > > Cheers > James > > On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Adheesh Sathaye > wrote: > Dear James, > > In the epics, the phrase "car?cara" (mobile/immobile) is quite > common--see for example Bhagavad-g?t? 10.39: > yac c?pi sarvabh?t?n?? b?ja? tad aham arjuna | > na tad asti vin? yat sy?n may? bh?ta? car?caram || > > > All best wishes, > > Adheesh > > > ---- > Adheesh Sathaye > Department of Asian Studies > University of British Columbia > > On Aug 5, 2011, at 8:36 AM, James Hartzell wrote: > > > HI > > > > A colleague has asked me the following question, and I thought > some on this list might readily know the answer: > > > > 'Do you have in Sanskrit a conceptual dichotomy that corresponds > to living/non-living or animate/inanimate? > > What exactly does the taxonomy look like? (is the opposition > something like human vs. animals vs plants vs material objects, or > human and animal vs. plants vs material objects or human and animal > and plant vs. material objects, or otherwise?)' > > > > Cheers > > James Hartzell > > Guest Researcher > > CIMeC, Center for Mind/Brain Sciences > > University of Trento > > Mattarello, TN, Italy > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Sat Aug 6 10:59:09 2011 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 11 12:59:09 +0200 Subject: Publication Announcement (Artha=?utf-8?Q?=C5=9B_=C4=81stra?= Commentaries) Message-ID: <161227093351.23782.3956876592291546134.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1074 Lines: 37 Just released: Studia Indologica Universitatis Halensis, Volume 2: Two Commentaries on the Artha??stra: Jayama?gal? & C??akya??k?. Critically re-edited from Harihara Sastri's Fascicle Editions by Andreas Pohlus. Halle: Universit?tsverlag 2011, pp. 200. ISBN 978-3-86977-034-5 (Hardbound) 59,00 ? Orders can be placed directly with the publishers: http://www.universitaetsverlag-halle-wittenberg.de/default/studia-indologica.html Kind regards, WS ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From baums at BERKELEY.EDU Sat Aug 6 11:33:21 2011 From: baums at BERKELEY.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 11 13:33:21 +0200 Subject: taxonomy question In-Reply-To: <720F4A0E-ADC3-45D2-B146-06C437AB3E86@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227093353.23782.2914538418582640855.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 677 Lines: 23 Dear James and Elisa, > "born from an uterus" (yoni-ja or jar?yuja), "born from an egg" > (a??aja), "born from sweat/warmth" (svedaja) and born from water > (udbhijja). The latter group includes all sorts of plants. the Buddhists have a??aja, jar?yuja, sa?svedaja and upap?duka (spontaneously born: some classes of gods, etc.). Plants are not included in this variant of the classification, but since yoni here serves as the cover term they were evidently not meant to be covered. I wonder which of the two variants of the list is primary. All best, Stefan -- Dr. Stefan Baums South and Southeast Asian Studies, UC Berkeley School of Asian Studies, Universiteit Leiden From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Sat Aug 6 11:53:32 2011 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 11 13:53:32 +0200 Subject: Publication Announcement Message-ID: <161227093356.23782.14384492972258011723.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1074 Lines: 37 Just released: Studia Indologica Universitatis Halensis, Volume 2: Two Commentaries on the Artha??stra: Jayama?gal? & C??akya??k?. Critically re-edited from Harihara Sastri's Fascicle Editions by Andreas Pohlus. Halle: Universit?tsverlag 2011, pp. 200. ISBN 978-3-86977-034-5 (Hardbound) 59,00 ? Orders can be placed directly with the publishers: http://www.universitaetsverlag-halle-wittenberg.de/default/studia-indologica.html Kind regards, WS ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From e.ciurtin at GMAIL.COM Sat Aug 6 11:57:00 2011 From: e.ciurtin at GMAIL.COM (Eugen Ciurtin) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 11 14:57:00 +0300 Subject: Help In-Reply-To: <259D2C5B210F304AB8B734030D5F54CB824C976646@post> Message-ID: <161227093359.23782.8950108523934317859.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1457 Lines: 60 Sometimes overlooked as not available online, another valuable publication is: Andr? Couture, "*Birds in Sanskrit Literature* de K. N. Dave: Index", *Bulletin d'?tudes Indiennes* 16 (1998), pp. 179-229. hope it helps Eugen 2011/8/5 Kenneth Zysk > Does anyone happen to have a Sanskrit index to K.N. Dave?s *Birds in > Sanskrit Literature*? I have the older version with only the English > index.**** > > I should appreciate it if someone could send it to me.**** > > ** ** > > Many thank,**** > > Ken **** > > ** ** > > Kenneth Zysk, PhD, DPhil**** > > Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies**** > > University of Copenhagen**** > > Asian Studies Section **** > > Artillerivej 86 **** > > DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark**** > > Ph: +45 3532 8951 Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk**** > > ** ** > -- Dr E. Ciurtin Secretary of the Romanian Association for the History of Religions Publications Officer of the European Association for the Study of Religions www.easr.eu Lecturer & Secretary of the Scientific Council Institute for the History of Religions, Romanian Academy Calea 13 Septembrie no. 13 sect. 5, Bucharest 050711 Phone: 00 40 733 951 953 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elisa.freschi at GMAIL.COM Sat Aug 6 12:58:27 2011 From: elisa.freschi at GMAIL.COM (elisa freschi) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 11 14:58:27 +0200 Subject: taxonomy question Message-ID: <161227093363.23782.12171115916889659283.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2294 Lines: 66 Dear James and Stefan, I should have mentioned that Pr?bh?kara authors explicitly deny the existence of "spontaneously born" bodies ?since they are nowhere to be seen (the appeal to common sense is the standard device of M?m??s? authors). As for your question, L. Schmithausen's work (see references in A. Thrasher's post) seems to confirm the idea that plants were admitted as a class of living beings in early India (including the earliest layers of the Buddhist P?li Canon) but then a general tendency to rationalisation excluded them from the field of living beings in the ??stric literature. This might have happened at an earlier stage in Buddhist *texts* (due to the historical circumstances of its being a "new" religion and of relegating myth often outside the precincts of its reflection), whereas in "Hinduism" traditions favouring the inclusion of plants have been preserved in epics, Pur??as, etc. I cannot really understand what you mean by "since yoni > here serves as the cover term they were evidently not meant to be > covered" Could you explain further? elisa freschi Dr. Elisa Freschi research fellow of Sanskrit Facolt? di Studi Orientali Universit? di Roma 'La Sapienza' via Principe Amedeo 182b, 00185 Rome (Italy) fax +39 06 49385915 http://elisafreschi.blogspot.com http://uniroma.academia.edu/elisafreschi On 06/ago/11, at 13:33, Stefan Baums wrote: > Dear James and Elisa, > >> "born from an uterus" (yoni-ja or jar?yuja), "born from an egg" >> (a??aja), "born from sweat/warmth" (svedaja) and born from water >> (udbhijja). The latter group includes all sorts of plants. > > the Buddhists have a??aja, jar?yuja, sa?svedaja and upap?duka > (spontaneously born: some classes of gods, etc.). Plants are not > included in this variant of the classification, but since yoni > here serves as the cover term they were evidently not meant to be > covered. I wonder which of the two variants of the list is > primary. > > All best, > Stefan > > -- > Dr. Stefan Baums > South and Southeast Asian Studies, UC Berkeley > School of Asian Studies, Universiteit Leiden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Sat Aug 6 13:51:07 2011 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 11 15:51:07 +0200 Subject: Publication Announcement (Honigberger) Message-ID: <161227093369.23782.15391360578676286164.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2583 Lines: 36 To be released soon: Studia Indologica Universitatis Halensis, Band 3 Johann Martin Honigberger, Als Leibarzt am Hofe des ?L?wen vom Panjab? Ranjit Singh. Nachdruck der "Reiseerlebnisse" (Wien 1853). Hrsg. und mit einem Nachwort von J?rgen Hanneder. Halle: Universit?tsverlag 2011. pp. 720, portraits. ISBN 978-3-86977-036-9. Subscription price: 128,00 ? http://www.universitaetsverlag-halle-wittenberg.de/default/forthcoming-books.html In dem hier im deutschen Original erstmals nachgedruckten Werk ?Fr?chte aus dem Morgenlande? (1853) beschreibt der aus Siebenb?rgen stammende Mediziner J. M. Honigberger (1795?1869) seine Erlebnisse auf ausgedehnten Reisen bis nach Indien, seine Zeit am Hof von Lahore sowie seine Versuche, aus den medizinischen Systemen seiner Zeit eine Synthese zu erarbeiten, die er im medizinischen Teil seines Werks, das eine ausf?hrliche Materia medica enth?lt, darlegt. Da Honigberger sich auch die Hom?opathie aneignete und diese zumindest kurzzeitig in Indien praktizierte, gilt er zugleich als Pionier der indischen Hom?opathie. Er war einer der wenigen, die im fr?hen 19. Jahrhundert weder im Auftrag noch finanziert durch die englische East India Company oder einer Missionsgesellschaft Asien bereisten. Sein Buch ist eine Mischung aus einem landes- und kulturkundlichen Erlebnisbericht und einer durch seine Funktion als Leibarzt am Hofe bedingten einzigartigen Innenperspektive. Das lange vergriffene Werk bildet somit eine Fundgrube zur Geschichte und Kultur Nordwest-Indiens im 19. Jahrhundert unter Einschluss der Medizingeschichte, niedergelegt in einer kurzweiligen Erz?hlung, die ausbreitet, wie ein Apotheker aus dem siebenb?rgischen Kronstadt durch einen, wie er selbst schreibt, ?besonderen inneren Drang? in den Orient zog, wo er den Ursprung der Kunst, Wissenschaft und Religion vermutete. Der Herausgeber J?rgen Hanneder ist Professor f?r Indologie an der Philipps-Universit?t Marburg. Kind regards, Walter Slaje ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Sat Aug 6 13:56:40 2011 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 11 15:56:40 +0200 Subject: Publication Announcement (Arthasastra Commentaries) Message-ID: <161227093372.23782.16369872704617587444.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1434 Lines: 34 Just released: Studia Indologica Universitatis Halensis, Volume 2: Two Commentaries on the Artha??stra: Jayama?gal? & C??akya??k?. Critically re-edited from Harihara Sastri's Fascicle Editions by Andreas Pohlus. Halle: Universit?tsverlag 2011, pp. 200. ISBN 978-3-86977-034-5 (Hardbound) 59,? EUR. http://www.universitaetsverlag-halle-wittenberg.de/default/studia-indologica.html "Es handelt sich bei dieser Ausgabe um einen Wiederabdruck der beiden nur in Teilen erhalten gebliebenen Artha??stra-Kommentare Jayama?gal? und C??akya??k?. Diese von G. Harihara Sastri besorgte Ausgabe erschien von 1953?1968 im Journal of Oriental Research, Madras. Die Jayama?gal? kommentiert Artha??stra 1.1.3?1.21.29, die C??akya??k? hingegen Artha??stra 2.1.1?3.1.47 nach der Z?hlung von Kangle." Kind regards, Walter Slaje ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From baums at BERKELEY.EDU Sat Aug 6 16:05:09 2011 From: baums at BERKELEY.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 11 18:05:09 +0200 Subject: taxonomy question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093375.23782.16416341128542267271.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 716 Lines: 25 Dear Elisa, thanks for explaining and for the reference! > I cannot really understand what you mean by "since yoni here > serves as the cover term they were evidently not meant to be > covered" In the Buddhist sources (e.g., Sa?g?tis?tra and commentaries, AKBh), yoni is not a synonym of the jar?yu kind of birth, but all four items are considered ?yonis? in a more general meaning of ?kind of birth.? This generalization of the term for a generative organ from the animal (and human) kingdom suggests that plants were not a concern of the creators of this variant of the list. All best, Stefan -- Dr. Stefan Baums South and Southeast Asian Studies, UC Berkeley School of Asian Studies, Universiteit Leiden From veerankp at GMAIL.COM Sat Aug 6 13:08:34 2011 From: veerankp at GMAIL.COM (Veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 11 18:38:34 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?B?bmV3IHB1YmxpY2F0aW9uICAgICAgICAgICAgICDgpK3gpYLgpLfgpKPgpLjgpL7gpLDgpKTgpKTgpY3gpKTgpY0g4KS14KSq4KWN4KSw4KSV4KS+4KS24KS/4KSV4KS+IGJ5IHByb2YuIEtWICAgICAgICAgICAgICBSYW1ha3Jpc2huYW1hY2hhciB5YQ==?= Message-ID: <161227093366.23782.10968840894983999402.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2485 Lines: 56 dear all, I am happy to announce the new publication ?????????????????????? by prof. KV Ramakrishnamacharya, prof. of Vyakarana, RS Vidyapeetha Tirupati. (??????????????????????, ??????????????????????????????????? 214, ?????????????????????? 11,???????????????????????????, ???????, 2010, ??????? ??.300. ??.XXIV+353) This book aims at the critical exposition of the ?????????????? of Koundabhatta of bhattojidikshita school. ?????????????? is an important work from Vaiyakaranas dealing with philosophy of panini's grammar. this is the enlarged edition of the book ?????????????? published in 1996. chapter no. second is enlarged with newly included ?????-?????????-??????????????-??????????????????-???????????????-?????????????-?????????????????? etc. but most importantly a whole third chapter is newly included in this edition which i think is the most important point. This third chapter consists of author's critical expositions on the difficult sentences of ??????????????. this kind of exposition was long overdue, and ably authored by a teacher who taught the ??????? for over thirty years. each of the topics dealt in ??????? are critically examined in a historical way and in each point of disagreement the opinions of Naiyayikas and Meemamsakas are critically observed. I hope this work will be made a text/reference book for the Bhushanasara classes everywhere. One fine point I observed in the book in a quick glance is that prof. KV Ramakrishnamacharya deviated from tread path of traditional vaiyakaranas on Sphota. he clearly dismisses the hypothetical extra-sensory sphota and accepted the observable sphota that is ??????? ??????? ????? ?????? ?????????.... ?????????? ?????????????? ?????????? ? ???????????? ???????? ?????????????? ????? ???????????????????? ????????????? ????????? ????????????????? (??.285) true, prof. KV Ramakrishnamacharya never clinged to traditions. I request to all the senior scholars to write new works like on the difficult texts of indian hardcore shastras so the fine points of the texts observed by these senior scholars can be grasped by younger ones. -- Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi Head, Dept of Darshanas, Yoganandacharya Bhavan, Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026. ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ????????? ??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ??????????????? ?????????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) From palaniappa at AOL.COM Sun Aug 7 22:32:59 2011 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 11 18:32:59 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?A_query_related_to_=C5=9A_ambuka?= Message-ID: <161227093378.23782.3495025043910233591.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 493 Lines: 14 In Brahmas?tra commentaries, in the section on the ineligibility of ??dras to attain Vedantic knowledge, does any commentator use the story of ?ambuka (who was killed by R?ma) as an example? If not, what could be the reasons? I would appreciate any comments or references. Thanks in advance. Regards, Palaniappan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM Tue Aug 9 08:52:42 2011 From: james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM (James Hartzell) Date: Tue, 09 Aug 11 10:52:42 +0200 Subject: taxonomy question In-Reply-To: <20110806160509.GD6691@deepthought> Message-ID: <161227093381.23782.340974617932029515.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1227 Lines: 41 Dear All Just a note of thanks to everyone for the kind assistance with the taxonomy question; i've been away from email for a couple of days, hence the late reply. It's certainly an intriguing issue. Grazie! James On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Stefan Baums wrote: > Dear Elisa, > > thanks for explaining and for the reference! > > > I cannot really understand what you mean by "since yoni here > > serves as the cover term they were evidently not meant to be > > covered" > > In the Buddhist sources (e.g., Sa?g?tis?tra and commentaries, > AKBh), yoni is not a synonym of the jar?yu kind of birth, but all > four items are considered ?yonis? in a more general meaning of > ?kind of birth.? This generalization of the term for a generative > organ from the animal (and human) kingdom suggests that plants > were not a concern of the creators of this variant of the list. > > All best, > Stefan > > -- > Dr. Stefan Baums > South and Southeast Asian Studies, UC Berkeley > School of Asian Studies, Universiteit Leiden > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Aug 10 08:33:39 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 11 10:33:39 +0200 Subject: SuperHeavy Message-ID: <161227093384.23782.7488227920710160019.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 238 Lines: 6 Mick Jagger singing in Sanskrit. Now I've seen everything :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hwtull at MSN.COM Wed Aug 10 20:38:05 2011 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 11 16:38:05 -0400 Subject: SuperHeavy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093387.23782.13049995171373751549.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 527 Lines: 23 You can listen to the song here: http://soundcloud.com/jerinjohn/superheavy-satyameva-jayate-a But, the verses are in hindi. Herman Tull Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 10:33:39 +0200 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Subject: [INDOLOGY] SuperHeavy To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Mick Jagger singing in Sanskrit. Now I've seen everything :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at UW.EDU.PL Wed Aug 10 21:15:11 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 11 23:15:11 +0200 Subject: SuperHeavy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093390.23782.2130453124241439685.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 107 Lines: 9 Hindi and translation: http://lyricsdna.com/songs/lyrics/satyameva-jayate-lyrics-superheavy Artur K. From whitakjl at WFU.EDU Thu Aug 11 18:20:34 2011 From: whitakjl at WFU.EDU (Jarrod Whitaker) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 11 14:20:34 -0400 Subject: Greater Magadha Reviews and Kavi in Rgveda In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093399.23782.12548085104841867555.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1222 Lines: 42 Dear All: 2 Issues: 1) Does anyone know of any published reviews of Bronkhorst's /Greater Magadha/? 2) My library cannot get a hold of Kohler's new book Kavi im rgveda. Dichtung, Ritual und Schoepfung im fruhvedischen Denken Book Author (ISBN/ISSN: 978-3-8440-0121-1). Here is the message: "We have exhausted all possible ILL sources. There are no libraries that own this item that are ILL suppliers; I checked in OCLC, and the ISBN you supplied does not match any records. I also searched by title and was unsuccessful in my search. If you know of an institution that has this book, please let me know and I will contact them on your behalf." Can anyone let me know how to get a copy of this new book? Do I have the details wrong? I think I took them off this list a few months back. Cheers JLW -- Jarrod L. Whitaker, Ph.D. Associate Professor, South Asian Religions Graduate Program Director Wake Forest University Department of Religion P.O. Box 7212 Winston-Salem, NC 27109 whitakjl at wfu.edu p 336.758.4162 f 336.758.4462 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Thu Aug 11 14:11:03 2011 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 11 16:11:03 +0200 Subject: GRETIL update #391 Message-ID: <161227093393.23782.13734261008501660666.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 599 Lines: 24 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Yama-Smrti: Laghuyamasmrti [99 verses] (plain text, text with pada markers, pada index) __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Thu Aug 11 17:46:57 2011 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 11 19:46:57 +0200 Subject: part of KavyaMala Series uploaded in .pdf form on Internet Archive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093395.23782.11556824328958545146.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3311 Lines: 180 http://www.archive.org/details/Kavya_Mala_Series_Of_Nirnaya_Sagar_Press Description Kavya Mala Series of Books of Nirnaya Sagar Press, Mumbai published during late 19th and early 20th centuries. Kavya Mala is a collection of ancient, very rare and previously unpublished Sanskrit works. Nearly 100 books were published in this series. Kavyamala Anthology Series (volumes 1 to 14) is uploaded at http://www.archive.org/details/Kavyamala_anthology_series_of_Nirnaya_sagar_press Visit sanskritebooks.blogspot.com for more Sanskrit e-books. LIST OF BOOKS UPLOADED ====================== Kavyamala Vol_ 04 - Karpuramanjari of Rajasekhara 1887 Kavyamala Vol_ 07 - Karnasundari of Bilhana 1932 Kavyamala Vol_ 08 - Dharmasarmabhyudayam of Harichandra 1933 Kavyamala Vol_ 09 - Subhadraharanam of Madhava Bhatta 1888 Kavyamala Vol_ 10 - Samaya Matrika - Kshemendra 1925 Kavyamala Vol_ 11 - Kadambarikathasara of Abhinanda 1925 Kavyamala Vol_ 14 - Parijataharanachampu of Sesha Srikrishna 1926 Kavyamala Vol_ 15 - Kavyalankara Sutras of Vamana 1926 Kavyamala Vol_ 16 - Mukaundananda Bhana of Kashipati 1889 Kavyamala Vol_ 16 - Mukundananda Bhana of Kasipati 1889 Kavyamala Vol_ 17 - Unmattaraghava of Bhaskara 1899 Kavyamala Vol_ 20 - Latakamelakaprahasanam of Sankhadhara 1923 Kavyamala Vol_ 26 - Dasavataracharitam of Kshemendra 1891 Kavyamala Vol_ 28 - Dutangadanatakam of Subhatakavi 1900 Kavyamala Vol_ 30 - Chandraprabhacharita of Viranandi 1892 Kavyamala Vol_ 31 - Vishnubhktikalpalata of Purushothama 1917 Kavyamala Vol_ 32 - Sahridayananda of Krishnananda 1930 Kavyamala Vol_ 36 - Vrittivartika of Appayya Dikshita 1892 Kavyamala Vol_ 37 - Rasasadana Bhana of Yuvaraja 1893 Kavyamala Vol_ 38 - Chitramimasa of Appayya Dikshita 1941 Kavyamala Vol_ 39 - Vidyaparinayana of Anandarya Makhi 1893 Kavyamala Vol_ 43 - Kavyanusasanam of Vagbhata 1915 Kavyamala Vol_ 46 - Vrishabhanuja Natika Of Mathuradasa 1895 Kavyamala Vol_ 46 - Vrishabhanuja Natika Of Mathuradasa 1927 Kavyamala Vol_ 50 - Alankara Shekhara of Kesava Misra 1895 Kavyamala Vol_ 51 - The Patanjali-Charita - Pt Sivadatta 1895 Kavyamala Vol_ 53 - Vanibhushana of Damodara Misra (1925) Kavyamala Vol_ 54 - Dhananjayavijaya of Kanchanacharya 1911 Kavyamala Vol_ 56 - Neminirvana of Vagbhata 1936 Kavyamala Vol_ 57 - Raghavanaishadhiya of Haradatta Suri 1926 Kavyamala Vol_ 58 - Shrangarbhushanam of Vamana Bhatta Bana 1896 Kavyamala Vol_ 63 - Sahityakaumudi of Vidyabhushana 1897 Kavyamala Vol_ 71 - Kavyanusasana of Hemachandra 1901 Kavyamala Vol_ 74 - Saugandhikaharana of Vishwanatha 1902 Kavyamala Vol_ 76 - Gangavataranam of Nilakantha Dikshita 1916 Kavyamala Vol_ 77 - Dela Rama Kathasara of Rajan & Bhatta Ahladaka 1902 Kavyamala Vol_ 78 - Sringara Sarvasva Bhana of Nalla Dikshita 1911 Kavyamala Vol_ 79 - Karna Bhushana - Gangananda 1926 Kavyamala Vol_ 82 - Subhashitaratnasandoha of Amitagati 1903 Kavyamala Vol_ 88 - Anyokti muktavali of Hamsavijaya Gani 1907 -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ http://www.uclouvain.be/356389.html -- Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of storage free. http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Thu Aug 11 18:49:07 2011 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 11 20:49:07 +0200 Subject: Greater Magadha Reviews and Kavi in Rgveda In-Reply-To: <4E441D72.3000100@wfu.edu> Message-ID: <161227093402.23782.18396010030677510266.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1463 Lines: 36 Am 11.08.2011 um 20:20 schrieb Jarrod Whitaker: > Dear All: > 2 Issues: > 1) Does anyone know of any published reviews of Bronkhorst's Greater Magadha? > > 2) My library cannot get a hold of Kohler's new book Kavi im rgveda. Dichtung, Ritual und Schoepfung im fruhvedischen Denken Book Author (ISBN/ISSN: 978-3-8440-0121-1). > > Here is the message: > "We have exhausted all possible ILL sources. There are no libraries that own this item that are ILL suppliers; I checked in OCLC, and the ISBN you supplied does not match any records. I also searched by title and was unsuccessful in my search. If you know of an institution that has this book, please let me know and I will contact them on your behalf." > > Can anyone let me know how to get a copy of this new book? Do I have the details wrong? I think I took them off this list a few months back. > Ad 2: for EUR 12.45 (around USD 18) you can get a PDF directly from the publisher: URL: (It's a non-print PDF, I guess) Ad 1: e.g. a review by Konrad Klaus, in ZDMG 161 (2011), p. 216 seq. Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richard.gombrich at BALLIOL.OX.AC.UK Thu Aug 11 20:08:04 2011 From: richard.gombrich at BALLIOL.OX.AC.UK (Richard Gombrich) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 11 21:08:04 +0100 Subject: Greater Magadha Review In-Reply-To: <4E441D72.3000100@wfu.edu> Message-ID: <161227093406.23782.6717785004091484464.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1429 Lines: 38 Greater Magadha review by Alexander Wynne: https://www.h-net.org/reviews/showpdf.php?id=31537. Richard Gombrich On 11 Aug 2011, at 19:20, Jarrod Whitaker wrote: > Dear All: > 2 Issues: > 1) Does anyone know of any published reviews of Bronkhorst's Greater Magadha? > > 2) My library cannot get a hold of Kohler's new book Kavi im rgveda. Dichtung, Ritual und Schoepfung im fruhvedischen Denken Book Author (ISBN/ISSN: 978-3-8440-0121-1). > > Here is the message: > "We have exhausted all possible ILL sources. There are no libraries that own this item that are ILL suppliers; I checked in OCLC, and the ISBN you supplied does not match any records. I also searched by title and was unsuccessful in my search. If you know of an institution that has this book, please let me know and I will contact them on your behalf." > > Can anyone let me know how to get a copy of this new book? Do I have the details wrong? I think I took them off this list a few months back. > > > Cheers > JLW > -- > > Jarrod L. Whitaker, Ph.D. > Associate Professor, South Asian Religions > Graduate Program Director > > Wake Forest University > Department of Religion > P.O. Box 7212 > Winston-Salem, NC 27109 > whitakjl at wfu.edu > p 336.758.4162 > f 336.758.4462 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jneelis at WLU.CA Fri Aug 12 02:26:50 2011 From: jneelis at WLU.CA (Jason Neelis) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 11 22:26:50 -0400 Subject: Greater Magadha Review Message-ID: <161227093409.23782.12291012656628012524.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1675 Lines: 41 In addition to my review in JRAS 18.3 (2008): 381-383 (DOI:10.1017/S1356186308008419), Greater Magadha has been reviewed by John Cort, Religious Studies Review 33.2 (2007): 171-172; Rudiger Schmitt, Acta Orientalia 69 (2008): 319-324; and in Orientalische Literaturzeitung 103.2 (2008): 250 ff. -Jason Neelis Wilfrid Laurier University >>> Richard Gombrich 08/11/11 4:08 PM >>> Greater Magadha review by Alexander Wynne: https://www.h-net.org/reviews/showpdf.php?id=31537. Richard Gombrich On 11 Aug 2011, at 19:20, Jarrod Whitaker wrote: > Dear All: > 2 Issues: > 1) Does anyone know of any published reviews of Bronkhorst's Greater Magadha? > > 2) My library cannot get a hold of Kohler's new book Kavi im rgveda. Dichtung, Ritual und Schoepfung im fruhvedischen Denken Book Author (ISBN/ISSN: 978-3-8440-0121-1). > > Here is the message: > "We have exhausted all possible ILL sources. There are no libraries that own this item that are ILL suppliers; I checked in OCLC, and the ISBN you supplied does not match any records. I also searched by title and was unsuccessful in my search. If you know of an institution that has this book, please let me know and I will contact them on your behalf." > > Can anyone let me know how to get a copy of this new book? Do I have the details wrong? I think I took them off this list a few months back. > > > Cheers > JLW > -- > > Jarrod L. Whitaker, Ph.D. > Associate Professor, South Asian Religions > Graduate Program Director > > Wake Forest University > Department of Religion > P.O. Box 7212 > Winston-Salem, NC 27109 > whitakjl at wfu.edu > p 336.758.4162 > f 336.758.4462 From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA Fri Aug 12 14:16:15 2011 From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 11 10:16:15 -0400 Subject: ICCR setting up Sanskrit chair in Cambodia, and cultural centres in SE Asia and elsewhere In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093416.23782.11081737455357423834.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2642 Lines: 52 SCHOLARS BEWARE OF ICCR!! It is all well and good that the ICCR is setting up more centres for Indian studies. But some clarifications are needed. First, the Indian scholars chosen by ICCR seem to be expected to follow the Government of India party line. I base this on a recent incident at the University of Toronto. An ICCR visiting scholar was chairing a talk about Kashmir by a Kashmiri journalist from Srinagar in early April. Since this kind of seminar is open to the public, several Kashmiri pandits, i.e. de facto Hindutva supporters attended and began to shout down the speaker. The chair calmly tried to tell them that this was an academic, not political event, but to no avail. The discussion had to be cut short due to these interruptions. Furthermore, the chair received a strongly worded rebuke from the Indian Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Delhi, accusing her of taking sides against India, which was certainly not the case. The chair of the Asian Centre at UofT protested, but to my knowledge the ministry issued no apology neither to the chair, nor the speaker, nor the UofT. Furthermore, the visiting ICCR scholar taught one course at our university during the winter term. The course was duly remunerated in accordance with Canadian labour laws. However, the ICCR demanded - and obtained! - that all this legal remuneration from UofT be returned to them. Only then did they pay out the foreign allowance to the scholar. In other words, the University of Toronto subsidized ICCR to a tune of some $8000 + a paid for rental apartment (rather expensive in Toronto). The ICCR merely shelled out only a few hundred dollars + transport to the visiting scholar. The whole affair made India look cheap and mean. So much for the rising and shining India! Stella Sandahl Department of East Asian Studies University of Toronto On 12-Aug-11, at 5:08 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Time of India: 'The East has been deeply influenced by India' > > The Indian Council for Cultural Relations (ICCR) has opened a > centre in the South Korean capital Seoul and set up a chair of > Sanskrit at the Preah Sihanouk Raja Buddhist University in > Cambodia. These initiatives are part of the Indian government's > 'Look East' policy. ICCR president Karan Singh talked with Shobhan > Saxena about India's growing soft power and need for more > engagement with countries in our extended neighbourhood. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Aug 12 09:08:56 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 11 11:08:56 +0200 Subject: ICCR setting up Sanskrit chair in Cambodia, and cultural centres in SE Asia and elsewhere Message-ID: <161227093412.23782.11482127411186649246.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 814 Lines: 14 *Time of India: 'The East has been deeply influenced by India'* The Indian Council for Cultural Relations (ICCR) has opened a centre in the South Korean capital Seoul and set up a chair of Sanskrit at the Preah Sihanouk Raja Buddhist University in Cambodia. These initiatives are part of the Indian government's 'Look East' policy. ICCR president Karan Singh talked with Shobhan Saxena about India's growing soft power and need for more engagement with countries in our extended neighbourhood. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Fri Aug 12 15:04:35 2011 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 11 17:04:35 +0200 Subject: Recent revisions in the GRETIL e-library Message-ID: <161227093420.23782.9096561211341122305.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1442 Lines: 60 Please note: E-books added to the GRETIL e-library after July 5, 2011, are generated according to a modified standard. All GRETIL e-books produced before that date will be replaced with new versions in due course. It is recommended to replace e-books downloaded before July 5 with these new versions as they become available. They are easily recognizable in the catalogue by the "REVISION" notice (second line of each entry in the title list). Please, proceed as follows: 1) Open the GRETIL e-library catalogue: http://opac.sub.uni-goettingen.de/DB=1.20/LNG=EN/ 2) Click "All titles" in the left frame (grey). This will generate a chronological title list, with the most recent additions and/or revisions on top. 3) Check catalogue entries 3, 4, 9, 10, 13-15, 19 and 20 (#20 = Windisch: Geschichte der Sanskrit-Philologie, REVISION #2, 5.7.2011). [NOTE: These numbers are valid only from today, August 12, until the next addition/revision! The present entries 21 to 213 will be revised in due course. It is therefore recommended to check the OPAC regularly, or subscribe to the RSS feed by clicking the icon in the left frame of the OPAC.] 4) To download the revised PDF file(s), click the respective catalogue entry, and then click one of the two URLs at the bottom of that entry. __________________________ More information on the GRETIL e-library: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gr_elib.htm From slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU Sat Aug 13 02:38:49 2011 From: slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU (Lindquist, Steven) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 11 02:38:49 +0000 Subject: CONF (update), Alternative Ramayanas, SMU, Sept. 24th Message-ID: <161227093423.23782.9922605852193997678.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 604 Lines: 26 Please pardon x-posting. I previously announced the SARII/Asian Studies' "Alternative Ramayanas: Variations in an Epic Tradition" conference at Southern Methodist University on Sept. 24th, 2011. This email is to let you know that free registration is now open. Flier and abstracts are also available. Please see: www.smu.edu/asianstudies/events or www.sarii.org My best, Steven STEVEN LINDQUIST, PH.D. ASSISTANT PROFESSOR DIRECTOR OF ASIAN STUDIES _____________ Department of Religious Studies Southern Methodist University PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275 http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui From athr at LOC.GOV Sat Aug 13 13:36:32 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 11 09:36:32 -0400 Subject: None Message-ID: <161227093432.23782.13183015044037256603.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1005 Lines: 32 "A sixties issue of the Polish Great Encyclopedia presented A?oka, quite consistently, as a builder of the hospitals for animals. But not only. In this famous entry he was also a builder of the hospitals for plants." Presumably only for potted plants, since digging up and moving would put a strain on plants in the ground. Or did Maurya bureaucrats, like their British Indian successors, in anticipation of transfer do their gardening in pots so their favorites could move with them to the next station? ;-) Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress 101 Independence Ave., S.W. Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athr at LOC.GOV Sat Aug 13 13:36:32 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 11 09:36:32 -0400 Subject: taxonomy question Message-ID: <161227093435.23782.10622896675122165744.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1005 Lines: 32 "A sixties issue of the Polish Great Encyclopedia presented A?oka, quite consistently, as a builder of the hospitals for animals. But not only. In this famous entry he was also a builder of the hospitals for plants." Presumably only for potted plants, since digging up and moving would put a strain on plants in the ground. Or did Maurya bureaucrats, like their British Indian successors, in anticipation of transfer do their gardening in pots so their favorites could move with them to the next station? ;-) Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress 101 Independence Ave., S.W. Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athr at LOC.GOV Sat Aug 13 13:44:27 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 11 09:44:27 -0400 Subject: taxonomy question Message-ID: <161227093441.23782.15725570221928397203.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1255 Lines: 35 Girnar Rock Edict II: PaMthesU kUpA ca khAnApita, vrachA ca ropApitA paribhogAya pasu-manusAnaM. E. Hultzsch (1925, p. 4): "On the roads wells were caused to be dug , and trees were caused to be planted for the use of cattle and men." Jules Bloch (1950, p. 95) reverses the order, for him men must go first : "[...] ? l'usage des hommes et des b?tes". Is the order of the compound in the original based on any sort of priority, or merely on style, the presumption that in a dvandva longer words should come after shorter? Doesn't paZu here, as frequently, mean "domestic mammal" rather than "animal" in general or "cattle" in particular, and refer to other animals that would go along a highway with people, such as buffalo, sheep, goats, asses, and camels? Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress 101 Independence Ave., S.W. Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at UW.EDU.PL Sat Aug 13 10:53:54 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 11 12:53:54 +0200 Subject: taxonomy question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093426.23782.8385707462483286797.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1609 Lines: 54 Dear All, To denote living beings, A?oka's Edicts use three terms: jiva-, jIva- (skt.jIva-) pAna- (skt. prANa-) pasu-, pazu- (skt. pazu-) The distinction between pAna- and pasu-/pazu- is oftentimes blurred in translations which tend to render both of them simply as "animals". Which, in turn, helps making A?oka into a Buddhist Super-Hero, so intent on improving the lot of animals that he decided to plant trees and dig wells on the roads - for their and men's use. Girnar Rock Edict II: PaMthesU kUpA ca khAnApita, vrachA ca ropApitA paribhogAya pasu-manusAnaM. E. Hultzsch (1925, p. 4): "On the roads wells were caused to be dug , and trees were caused to be planted for the use of cattle and men." Jules Bloch (1950, p. 95) reverses the order, for him men must go first : "[...] ? l'usage des hommes et des b?tes". Other authors go for unspecified animals: Amulyachandra Sen (1956, p. 66): "[...] for the use of animals and men". D.C. Sircar (1957, p. 40): "[...] for the enjoyment of animals and men". J. Makowiecka (Polish translation of 1964, p. 5): "[...] ku po?ytkowi zwierz?t i ludzi" (for the benefit of animals and men"). J. Filipsk?, J. Vacek (Czech translation of 1970, p. 194): "[...] pro u?itek zv??at i lid?" (for the use of animals and men). And so on. Exit "cattle", as the object of state economic interest. Enter "animals". A sixties issue of the Polish Great Encyclopedia presented A?oka, quite consistently, as a builder of the hospitals for animals. But not only. In this famous entry he was also a builder of the hospitals for plants. Regards, Artur Karp Poland From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Sat Aug 13 13:39:40 2011 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 11 13:39:40 +0000 Subject: taxonomy question Message-ID: <161227093438.23782.15519589142201784455.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1136 Lines: 35 I think the expression dupada in this context probably does extend beyond humans, though in other places, such as the P?li expression dipaduttamo or Skt. dvipad?? vara?, it is most certainly limited to humans. Madhav M. Deshpande ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of Artur Karp [karp at UW.EDU.PL] Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 8:13 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question A?oka's Edicts again. Another broad taxonomical division appears in the text of Pillar Edict II. Delhi-Topra version (Hultzsch,line E): dupada-catupadesu pakhi-vAlicAlesu vividhe me anugahe kaTe [...]. Amulyachandra Sen's Sanskritized text: dvipada-catuSpadeSu pakSi-vAricareSu vividhaH mayA anugrahaH kRtaH [...] - and his translation: "On bipeds and quadrupeds, on birds and aquatic animals, various benefits have been conferred by me [...]". It's not clear whether the category "bipeds" includes also monkeys and apes, and whether animals such as crayfish or water insects are included in the category of "aquatic animals". Regards, Artur Karp From karp at UW.EDU.PL Sat Aug 13 12:13:59 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 11 14:13:59 +0200 Subject: taxonomy question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093429.23782.15248386677892361855.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 657 Lines: 23 A?oka's Edicts again. Another broad taxonomical division appears in the text of Pillar Edict II. Delhi-Topra version (Hultzsch,line E): dupada-catupadesu pakhi-vAlicAlesu vividhe me anugahe kaTe [...]. Amulyachandra Sen's Sanskritized text: dvipada-catuSpadeSu pakSi-vAricareSu vividhaH mayA anugrahaH kRtaH [...] - and his translation: "On bipeds and quadrupeds, on birds and aquatic animals, various benefits have been conferred by me [...]". It's not clear whether the category "bipeds" includes also monkeys and apes, and whether animals such as crayfish or water insects are included in the category of "aquatic animals". Regards, Artur Karp From vjroebuck at BTINTERNET.COM Sat Aug 13 13:47:15 2011 From: vjroebuck at BTINTERNET.COM (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 11 14:47:15 +0100 Subject: taxonomy question In-Reply-To: <1A6D14A87B9BB84D9BFBF8AE65CA1DE4020C8E@its-embx-02.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227093444.23782.17732136284755594638.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1350 Lines: 41 I would have thought that in the Buddhist context it would include devas too. Valerie J Roebuck On 13 Aug 2011, at 14:39, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: > > > I think the expression dupada in this context probably does extend beyond humans, though in other places, such as the P?li expression dipaduttamo or Skt. dvipad?? vara?, it is most certainly limited to humans. > > Madhav M. Deshpande > > ________________________________________ > From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of Artur Karp [karp at UW.EDU.PL] > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 8:13 AM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question > > A?oka's Edicts again. > > Another broad taxonomical division appears in the text of Pillar Edict II. > > Delhi-Topra version (Hultzsch,line E): dupada-catupadesu > pakhi-vAlicAlesu vividhe me anugahe kaTe [...]. > > Amulyachandra Sen's Sanskritized text: dvipada-catuSpadeSu > pakSi-vAricareSu vividhaH mayA anugrahaH kRtaH [...] > > - and his translation: "On bipeds and quadrupeds, on birds and aquatic > animals, various benefits have been conferred by me [...]". > > It's not clear whether the category "bipeds" includes also monkeys and > apes, and whether animals such as crayfish or water insects are > included in the category of "aquatic animals". > > Regards, > > Artur Karp From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sat Aug 13 18:42:35 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 11 20:42:35 +0200 Subject: None In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F1AB552AE84@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227093447.23782.45088171930724386.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1602 Lines: 72 There's absolutely not a shred of evidence that A?oka built hospitals, by the way. This got into the secondary literature once, and has been repeated ever since. Dominik -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Vienna Austria Project: http://www.istb.univie.ac.at/caraka/ 2011/8/13 Thrasher, Allen > "A sixties issue of the Polish Great Encyclopedia presented A?oka, quite > consistently, as a builder of the hospitals for animals. But not only. In > this famous entry he was also a builder of the hospitals for plants."**** > > ** ** > > Presumably only for potted plants, since digging up and moving would put a > strain on plants in the ground. Or did Maurya bureaucrats, like their > British Indian successors, in anticipation of transfer do their gardening in > pots so their favorites could move with them to the next station? ;-)**** > > ** ** > > Allen**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.**** > > Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator**** > > South Asia Team**** > > Asian Division**** > > Library of Congress**** > > 101 Independence Ave., S.W.**** > > Washington, DC 20540-4810**** > > USA**** > > tel. 202-707-3732**** > > fax 202-707-1724**** > > The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of > Congress.**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at UW.EDU.PL Sat Aug 13 19:17:02 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 11 21:17:02 +0200 Subject: None In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093451.23782.2862887559478987532.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 603 Lines: 25 2011/8/13 Dominik Wujastyk : > There's absolutely not a shred of evidence that A?oka built hospitals, by > the way.? This got into the secondary literature once, and has been repeated > ever since. > > Dominik Exactly. But there is this legendary Vaishali Pillar Edict which "records King Asoka building hospitals for both humans and animals" See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterinary_medicine#History My sources might be already antiquated, but --- am I mistaken in remembering that the pillar in question (The Lion Pillar of Vaishali) carries no inscription? Artur From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sat Aug 13 21:43:17 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 11 23:43:17 +0200 Subject: None In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093454.23782.5371835321172528356.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 988 Lines: 38 Thanks, Artur. I've now edited the Wikipedia page and removed the reference to hospitals. Best, Dominik On 13 August 2011 21:17, Artur Karp wrote: > 2011/8/13 Dominik Wujastyk : > > There's absolutely not a shred of evidence that A?oka built hospitals, by > > the way. This got into the secondary literature once, and has been > repeated > > ever since. > > > > Dominik > > Exactly. > > But there is this legendary Vaishali Pillar Edict which "records King > Asoka building hospitals for both humans and animals" > > See: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterinary_medicine#History > > My sources might be already antiquated, but --- am I mistaken in > remembering that the pillar in question (The Lion Pillar of Vaishali) > carries no inscription? > > > Artur > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at UW.EDU.PL Sat Aug 13 22:24:28 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 11 00:24:28 +0200 Subject: None In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093458.23782.16810466473520161208.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 482 Lines: 20 Mailer Daemons seem to defend A?okan veterinary hospitals. Let me repeat my message: No trace of your intervention, Dominik --- at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterinary_medicine#History: <> - illustrated by the photo of the Vaishali Pillar: A pillar in Vaishali, India, displaying edicts of Emperor Asoka>>. Best, Artur From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sat Aug 13 22:44:19 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 11 00:44:19 +0200 Subject: None In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093460.23782.2520246386430792470.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 816 Lines: 27 Ah, I only corrected the image caption. I've updated the text now. On 14 August 2011 00:24, Artur Karp wrote: > Mailer Daemons seem to defend A?okan veterinary hospitals. Let me > repeat my message: > > > > No trace of your intervention, Dominik --- > > at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterinary_medicine#History: > > < erected two kinds of hospitals, hospitals for people and hospitals for > animals.>> - illustrated by the photo of the Vaishali Pillar: A pillar > in Vaishali, India, displaying edicts of Emperor Asoka>>. > > Best, > > Artur > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at UW.EDU.PL Sun Aug 14 00:19:06 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 11 02:19:06 +0200 Subject: None In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093464.23782.10208577575062237595.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1226 Lines: 39 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Artur Karp Date: 2011/8/14 Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] To: Dominik Wujastyk Dominik, The image caption still says: "A pillar in Vaishali, India, displaying edicts of Emperor Asoka (272?231 BCE)". But another page of Wikipedia informs the reader that "The pillars found at Vaishali (with single lion capital) and Rampurva (with bull capital) do not bear any edict." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillars_of_Ashoka And, I would suggest changing "animals" to either "cattle" or "farm animals". In A?oka's Edicts the ?term "cattle/farm animals" reflects the real economic interests of the Mauryan state. The term "animals" seems to reflect ideological concerns of the late Western commentators of the Edicts. There is no indication that A?oka wanted to institutionalize the care for the state of health of animals - animals as such. Including serpents, monkeys, gavials and tigers. [A long time ago I visited the famous Delhi Birds ?Hospital. Yes, some birds were being taken care of there, but none of them predatory or living on carrion. Wouldn't it be better if the Hospital were named The Vegan Birds Hospital?] Regards, Artur From karp at UW.EDU.PL Sun Aug 14 08:11:01 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 11 10:11:01 +0200 Subject: Asoka and medicinal service In-Reply-To: <1313297059.47701.YahooMailClassic@web94803.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227093470.23782.2202856914329821959.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 684 Lines: 25 2011/8/14 Dipak Bhattacharya > It is certain that medical service was available from state to humans and > animals. Dear Dipak, In what way is it certain? What is meant by "from state"? What do you mean by "animals"? Yes, Artha?astra and A?oka's Edicts, as evidence. But - do we have tools with which to find out exactly what in these texts belongs to the sphere of postulates and what represents the sphere of practices? Any iconographic evidence? Best, Artur Karp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Sun Aug 14 04:44:19 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 11 10:14:19 +0530 Subject: Asoka and medicinal service In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093467.23782.6499654741389888548.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2289 Lines: 66 It is certain that medical service was available from state to humans and animals. How could that be realised without some permanent arrangement like sheds in junctions of highways or smaller roads? Or, are we to assume that there were roaming veterinarians and medicine men? Roaming medicine men are known from the term C?ra?avaidya, a lost branch of the Atharvaveda and, according to me (2005, 2008, 2011), the extant Atharvavedas too testify to that. But the information from the AVs are much older than Asoka's inscriptions. Did the roaming Vaidyas survive till then? Or, did Asoka arrange for some? The matter is worth enquiry. Best DB ? --- On Sat, 13/8/11, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: From: Dominik Wujastyk Subject: [INDOLOGY] To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Saturday, 13 August, 2011, 6:42 PM There's absolutely not a shred of evidence that A?oka built hospitals, by the way.? This got into the secondary literature once, and has been repeated ever since. Dominik -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Vienna Austria Project: http://www.istb.univie.ac.at/caraka/ 2011/8/13 Thrasher, Allen "A sixties issue of the Polish Great Encyclopedia presented A?oka, quite consistently, as a builder of the hospitals for animals. But not only. In this famous entry he was also a builder of the hospitals for plants." ?Presumably only for potted plants, since digging up and moving would put a strain on plants in the ground.? Or did Maurya bureaucrats, like their British Indian successors, in anticipation of transfer do their gardening in pots so their favorites could move with them to the next station? ;-) ?Allen??Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia TeamAsian DivisionLibrary of Congress101 Independence Ave., S.W. Washington, DC 20540-4810USAtel. 202-707-3732fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.??? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Sun Aug 14 10:43:42 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 11 16:13:42 +0530 Subject: Asoka and medicinal service In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093474.23782.1694760350647262235.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1187 Lines: 34 Dear Colleague, The king states that he has arranged. That is sufficient. Otherwise you may go on doubting. That is free. One may doubt even if it was the deed of Asoka and not of a different king named Priyadarsi Best DB --- On Sun, 14/8/11, Artur Karp wrote: From: Artur Karp Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Asoka and medicinal service To: "Dipak Bhattacharya" Cc: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Sunday, 14 August, 2011, 8:11 AM 2011/8/14 Dipak Bhattacharya It is certain that medical service was available from state to humans and animals.? Dear Dipak,? In what way is it certain? What is meant by "from state"? What do you mean by "animals"? Yes, Artha?astra and A?oka's Edicts, as evidence. But - do we have tools with which to find out exactly what in these texts belongs to the sphere of postulates and what represents the sphere of practices? Any iconographic evidence? Best,? Artur Karp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Sun Aug 14 21:18:14 2011 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 11 16:18:14 -0500 Subject: Query Message-ID: <161227093485.23782.1597845528875610090.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 145 Lines: 6 I have seen and used a word-index to K?lid?sa, but I cannot remember the title or locate it in any library. Can anyone help? Thanks. Patrick From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Sun Aug 14 23:27:07 2011 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 11 16:27:07 -0700 Subject: Query In-Reply-To: <6826_1313356715_1313356715_85D1B6C8-3FA5-44F9-9E3D-9CB9B67C2F06@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <161227093487.23782.10778833165798517693.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 503 Lines: 19 Dear Patrick, You probably have in mind: Scharpe, A. 1954. Kalidasa-lexicon. Rijksuniversiteit te Gent. Werken uitg. door de Faculteit van de Wijsbegeerte en Letteren, 117, 120, 122, 134, 159, 160 The following may be helpful: Narang, Satya Pal. 19xx. K?lid?sa Bibliography. Is there any particular word you are looking for? a.a. On 2011-08-14, at 2:18 PM, Patrick Olivelle wrote: > I have seen and used a word-index to K?lid?sa, but I cannot remember the title or locate it in any library. From karp at UW.EDU.PL Sun Aug 14 16:18:33 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 11 18:18:33 +0200 Subject: Asoka and medicinal service In-Reply-To: <1313318622.47332.YahooMailClassic@web94809.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227093478.23782.5816400116466820361.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 924 Lines: 28 2011/8/14 Dipak Bhattacharya > Dear Colleague, > The king states that he has arranged. That is sufficient. Otherwise you may > go on doubting. That is free. One may doubt even if it was the deed of Asoka > and not of a different king named Priyadarsi > > Dear Colleague, I have no problems with hard facts. One of them is that the king did state. And that he ordered his statements to be engraved on suitable rock surfaces and on pillars. But the relation of the contents of his statements to reality is open to enquiry. Thank you for allowing me to use my freedom and go on doubting. I shall use it, certainly. Yours, etc., Artur Karp Senior Lecturer in Sanskrit and Pali (ret.) University of Warsaw, Poland -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Aug 14 19:56:48 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 11 21:56:48 +0200 Subject: Asoka and medicinal service In-Reply-To: <1313297059.47701.YahooMailClassic@web94803.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227093481.23782.13914769530777932964.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4703 Lines: 135 Medical "services" were not mentioned by Asoka. He says he is making ???????? (in Prakrit) available. There is no evidence for sheds, buildings or anything similar. It is possible to read one expression as meaning "a place to sit down." It could be simply that he caused the planting of herbs, as he said. There is a very developed specialist literature in western historical circles about what exactly qualifies as a hospital. This is because there are various medical facilities mentioned in Roman and Greek times, such as valitudinaria and xenones, as well as various Middle Eastern Christian institutions such as that described in the 12th century Pantocrator Typicon, that included elaborate medical facilities. The historians who write about these things have developed very fine-grained ideas about the differences between rest-houses, hospices, pilgrimage stops, recuperation houses, clinics, hospitals, and so on. And there have been very heated controversies, for example surrounding the (in my view excellent) book "The Birth of the Hospital in the Byzantine Empire" by Tim Miller. Gunter Risse's study, "Mending Bodies, Saving Souls: A History of Hospitals" develops the idea that a hospital is defined by both overnight stay for patients, permanent attending physicians and by a clearly-defined teaching function. Nothing in the Asokan inscriptions mentions any medical institution of any kind. The earliest detailed description of a hospital is in the Carakasamhita, datable probably to the period 100AD-400AD (depending on D??habala's contribution). Like the Pantocrator Typicon, Caraka's blueprint is extraordinarily detailed and realistic. But as with the Byzantine document, we have to ask ourselves as historians whether Caraka's description can be taken at face value. Perhaps it was wishful thinking, or even science fiction? My own instinct is to take it seriously as a description of a real institution, but I wish there were more archaeological or other evidence to strengthen the case. Best, Dominik On 14 August 2011 06:44, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > It is certain that medical service was available from state to humans and > animals. How could that be realised without some permanent arrangement like > sheds in junctions of highways or smaller roads? Or, are we to assume that > there were roaming veterinarians and medicine men? Roaming medicine men are > known from the term C?ra?avaidya, a lost branch of the Atharvaveda and, > according to me (2005, 2008, 2011), the extant Atharvavedas too testify to > that. But the information from the AVs are much older than Asoka's > inscriptions. Did the roaming Vaidyas survive till then? Or, did Asoka > arrange for some? The matter is worth enquiry. > Best > DB > > > --- On *Sat, 13/8/11, Dominik Wujastyk * wrote: > > > From: Dominik Wujastyk > Subject: [INDOLOGY] > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Saturday, 13 August, 2011, 6:42 PM > > There's absolutely not a shred of evidence that A?oka built hospitals, by > the way. This got into the secondary literature once, and has been repeated > ever since. > > Dominik > > -- > Dr Dominik Wujastyk > Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde > Universit?t Wien > Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 > A-1090 Vienna > Austria > Project: http://www.istb.univie.ac.at/caraka/ > > > > 2011/8/13 Thrasher, Allen > > > > "A sixties issue of the Polish Great Encyclopedia presented A?oka, quite > consistently, as a builder of the hospitals for animals. But not only. In > this famous entry he was also a builder of the hospitals for plants."**** > > ** ** > > Presumably only for potted plants, since digging up and moving would put a > strain on plants in the ground. Or did Maurya bureaucrats, like their > British Indian successors, in anticipation of transfer do their gardening in > pots so their favorites could move with them to the next station? ;-)**** > > ** ** > > Allen**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.**** > > Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator**** > > South Asia Team**** > > Asian Division**** > > Library of Congress**** > > 101 Independence Ave., S.W.**** > > Washington, DC 20540-4810**** > > USA**** > > tel. 202-707-3732**** > > fax 202-707-1724**** > > The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of > Congress.**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA Mon Aug 15 12:54:21 2011 From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 11 08:54:21 -0400 Subject: Query In-Reply-To: <85D1B6C8-3FA5-44F9-9E3D-9CB9B67C2F06@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <161227093497.23782.16217611898132223544.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 902 Lines: 43 Dear Patrick, Our library has these two: 1. K?lid?sako?a? = A comprehensive dictionary of Kalidasa : based on stylo-linguistic principles / H?r?l?la ?ukla. Imprint Il?h?b?da : Racan? Prak??ana, 1981- 1st ed. -- v. Language Sanskrit -- 2. K?lid?sa pary?ya ko?a / samp?daka, Tribhuvanan?tha ?ukla. Imprint Dill? : Pratibh? Prak??ana, 2008. 1. sa?skara?a. 2 v. (viii, 904 p.) ; 23 cm. Language Sanskrit But I haven't seen either of them. Do you want me to go to then library and have a look? All the best Stella On 14-Aug-11, at 5:18 PM, Patrick Olivelle wrote: > I have seen and used a word-index to K?lid?sa, but I cannot > remember the title or locate it in any library. Can anyone help? > Thanks. > > Patrick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gvvajrac at WISC.EDU Mon Aug 15 16:15:47 2011 From: gvvajrac at WISC.EDU (Gautama Vajracharya) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 11 11:15:47 -0500 Subject: Nepali Manuscript Message-ID: <161227093501.23782.14663368485900400258.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 148 Lines: 10 Dear Dr. Thrasher, I will be delighted to see the illustrated manuscript. Please send them to me in your free time. Best, Gautama Vajracharya From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Mon Aug 15 10:44:50 2011 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 11 12:44:50 +0200 Subject: GRETIL update #392 Message-ID: <161227093490.23782.2277648451819008981.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 899 Lines: 35 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Yama-Smrti: Brhadyamasmrti [182 verses] (plain text, text with pada markers, pada index) Yama-Smrti: Pada index of all three versions Cumulative pada index of metric Dharma texts : three versions of Yama-Smrti added __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm ... and yes, contributions of e-texts are welcome! From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Mon Aug 15 11:38:29 2011 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 11 13:38:29 +0200 Subject: Publication Announcement (Mok=?utf-8?Q?=E1=B9=A3op_=C4=81ya.?= Critical Edition) Message-ID: <161227093493.23782.7145753942988123528.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1806 Lines: 35 Just released: the first two volumes containing a critical edition of Books (Prakara?a) 1-3 of the Mok?op?ya, i. e. the c. 10th century Kashmir recension of what subsequently became the vedanticized so-called "Yogav?si??ha": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moksopaya Anonymus Casmiriensis, Mok?op?ya. Historisch-kritische Gesamtausgabe. Textedition Teil 1-2.[Akademie der Wissenschaften und der Literatur, Mainz. Ver?ffentlichungen der Indologischen Kommission]. Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz 2011. (Introduction in German, text in Sanskrit) 1) Mok?op?ya. Das Erste und Zweite Buch. Vair?gyaprakara?a. Mumuk?uvyavah?raprakara?a. Kritische Edition von Susanne Krause-Stinner. Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz 2011. pp. LXXIII, 199. 2 coloured illustr. 72,? EUR. 2) Mok?op?ya. Das Dritte Buch. Utpattiprakara?a. Kritische Edition von J?rgen Hanneder, Peter Stephan und Stanislav Jager. Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz 2011. pp. XXV, 576. 1 coloured illustr. 118,? EUR Links to the order page (Harrassowitz) and to a downloadable, preliminary running commentary on the edited parts of the Mok?op?ya have been placed on the site below: http://adwm.indologie.uni-halle.de/MU_PhilKomm.htm Best wishes, Walter Slaje ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at UW.EDU.PL Mon Aug 15 20:44:57 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 11 22:44:57 +0200 Subject: Asoka: Roads and Animals Message-ID: <161227093503.23782.16463168723055897918.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1425 Lines: 42 2011/8/13 Thrasher, Allen : >> Girnar Rock Edict II: PaMthesU kUpA ca khAnApita, vrachA ca ropApitA > > paribhogAya pasu-manusAnaM. >> E. Hultzsch (1925, p. 4): "On the roads wells were caused to be dug , and >> trees were caused to be planted for the use of cattle and men." > Doesn't paZu here, as frequently, ?mean "domestic mammal" rather than > "animal" in general or "cattle" in particular, ?and refer to other animals > that would go along a highway with people, such as buffalo, sheep, goats, > asses, and camels? Dear Allen, The map of A?oka's empire, published in Kulke-Rothermund "A History of India", 2004, p. 69, shows his main highways, the "Northern Route" (uttarapatha) and the "Southern Route" (dak?i?apatha), and their important outbranchings. http://www.oration.com/~mm9n/articles/impact/8_files/image009.png What kinds of animals would be moving/moved along these highways, long enough for them to need access to water? Buffaloes do not look like right candidates. Caravans and military trains would use mainly bullocks and, to a lesser extent, camels as draught animals. And, as mounts, horses, camels and elephants. Were herds of goats and sheep driven long distance along those highways? Is there any textual evidence for the presence of large herds of cattle on those highways? Cattle as movable commodity, driven to where it could have been sold? Regards, Artur Karp From karp at UW.EDU.PL Tue Aug 16 10:03:21 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 11 12:03:21 +0200 Subject: Asoka: Roads and Animals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093505.23782.12040816704616306537.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 370 Lines: 15 Tangentially. Why are bulls so omnipresent in the store of Sanskrit metaphors? Is it because of their sexual provess? Or - because they are alpha-males par excellence? Then - reproductors, yes, but first of all leaders, leaders of the herds. Herds observed while just grazing on some pasture? Or, rather, herds in movement, with an alpha-bull in the lead? Artur From karp at UW.EDU.PL Tue Aug 16 10:21:21 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 11 12:21:21 +0200 Subject: Asoka: Roads and Animals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093507.23782.8866899817980724261.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 97 Lines: 8 > sexual provess? Prowess, of course. But bulls do like to prove themselves, don't they? A. From karp at UW.EDU.PL Tue Aug 16 10:51:31 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 11 12:51:31 +0200 Subject: taxonomy question In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F1AB552AE86@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227093510.23782.10964931138477666450.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 725 Lines: 24 >> Girnar Rock Edict II: PaMthesU kUpA ca khAnApita, vrachA ca ropApitA paribhogAya pasu-manusAnaM. >> E. Hultzsch (1925, p. 4): "On the roads wells were caused to be dug , and trees were caused to be planted for the use of cattle and men." >> Jules Bloch (1950, p. 95) reverses the order, for him men must go first : "[...] ? l'usage des hommes et des b?tes". > Is the order of the compound in the original based on any sort of priority, or merely on style, the presumption that in a dvandva longer words should come after shorter? Dear Allen, I do not feel competent enough to reasonably comment on your comment re word order in dvandva compounds. But would gladly learn from the panditas on the List. Artur From lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO Tue Aug 16 10:58:20 2011 From: lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 11 12:58:20 +0200 Subject: Indian architecture Message-ID: <161227093512.23782.11106315658686960884.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 639 Lines: 29 Dear members of the list, I am looking for digital pictures of Gupta period architecture associated with the private sphere (private houses, mansions, interiors, furniture etc.). I would be grateful for any hints I could get. Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse From: Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo - Norway Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 E-mail: lmfosse at getmail.no -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Aug 16 20:04:47 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 11 16:04:47 -0400 Subject: Asoka: Roads and Animals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093519.23782.12565571094863142144.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1636 Lines: 43 They're better hung than lions or tigers, and elephants, though larger and stronger, have testicles that are not even visible, being within the abdomen. They're very strong. As part of their alpha male behavior, they are brave and on occasion aggressive - ksattriyas. You sometimes have to watch out for bulls even when they are just grazing and you haven't done anything you know of to irritate them except be there. So the image may not be solely about them leading the herd. They have it over buffalo that they are considered more intelligent, and the Indian cattle certainly look it. Western cattle, I am told, are bred for stupidity, which does not seem to be true for Indian cattle, yet. I would suspect that all these things formed a unity in the mind of the ancient Indians, and there is no call to prioritize or separate one from the other. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Asian Division, Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Artur Karp Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 6:03 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Asoka: Roads and Animals Tangentially. Why are bulls so omnipresent in the store of Sanskrit metaphors? Is it because of their sexual provess? Or - because they are alpha-males par excellence? Then - reproductors, yes, but first of all leaders, leaders of the herds. Herds observed while just grazing on some pasture? Or, rather, herds in movement, with an alpha-bull in the lead? Artur From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Tue Aug 16 11:02:47 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 11 16:32:47 +0530 Subject: Asoka and medicinal service In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093516.23782.111551786593474083.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5242 Lines: 93 I did not mention or mean hospital service but medical? service = treatment facilities. Nor did I mention the existence of full-fledged hospitals. One may read Tarasankar Bandyopadhy's Aarogyaniketan "House for cure" dealing with a tradional Kaviraj, and his establishment,?who treated his patients?according to his best ability. This is a fair representation of pre-British treatment facilities (if medical facilities is objected) in Bengal. A rudimentary form at the expense of state at the instance of Asoka will not be an unsdue conjectrure according to me. Best? DB?? --- On Sun, 14/8/11, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: From: Dominik Wujastyk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Asoka and medicinal service To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Sunday, 14 August, 2011, 7:56 PM Medical "services" were not mentioned by Asoka.? He says he is making ???????? (in Prakrit) available.? There is no evidence for sheds, buildings or anything similar.? It is possible to read one expression as meaning "a place to sit down." ? It could be simply that he caused the planting of herbs, as he said.? There is a very developed specialist literature in western historical circles about what exactly qualifies as a hospital.? This is because there are various medical facilities mentioned in Roman and Greek times, such as valitudinaria and xenones, as well as various Middle Eastern Christian institutions such as that described in the 12th century Pantocrator Typicon, that included elaborate medical facilities.? The historians who write about these things have developed very fine-grained ideas about the differences between rest-houses, hospices, pilgrimage stops, recuperation houses, clinics, hospitals, and so on. ? And there have been very heated controversies, for example surrounding the (in my view excellent) book "The Birth of the Hospital in the Byzantine Empire" by Tim Miller.? Gunter Risse's study, "Mending Bodies, Saving Souls: A History of Hospitals" develops the idea that a hospital is defined by both overnight stay for patients, permanent attending physicians and by a clearly-defined teaching function.? Nothing in the Asokan inscriptions mentions any medical institution of any kind. The earliest detailed description of a hospital is in the Carakasamhita, datable probably to the period 100AD-400AD (depending on D??habala's contribution).? Like the Pantocrator Typicon, Caraka's blueprint is extraordinarily detailed and realistic.? But as with the Byzantine document, we have to ask ourselves as historians whether Caraka's description can be taken at face value.? Perhaps it was wishful thinking, or even science fiction?? My own instinct is to take it seriously as a description of a real institution, but I wish there were more archaeological or other evidence to strengthen the case. Best, Dominik On 14 August 2011 06:44, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: It is certain that medical service was available from state to humans and animals. How could that be realised without some permanent arrangement like sheds in junctions of highways or smaller roads? Or, are we to assume that there were roaming veterinarians and medicine men? Roaming medicine men are known from the term C?ra?avaidya, a lost branch of the Atharvaveda and, according to me (2005, 2008, 2011), the extant Atharvavedas too testify to that. But the information from the AVs are much older than Asoka's inscriptions. Did the roaming Vaidyas survive till then? Or, did Asoka arrange for some? The matter is worth enquiry. Best DB ? --- On Sat, 13/8/11, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: From: Dominik Wujastyk Subject: [INDOLOGY] To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Saturday, 13 August, 2011, 6:42 PM There's absolutely not a shred of evidence that A?oka built hospitals, by the way.? This got into the secondary literature once, and has been repeated ever since. Dominik -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Vienna Austria Project: http://www.istb.univie.ac.at/caraka/ 2011/8/13 Thrasher, Allen "A sixties issue of the Polish Great Encyclopedia presented A?oka, quite consistently, as a builder of the hospitals for animals. But not only. In this famous entry he was also a builder of the hospitals for plants." ? Presumably only for potted plants, since digging up and moving would put a strain on plants in the ground.? Or did Maurya bureaucrats, like their British Indian successors, in anticipation of transfer do their gardening in pots so their favorites could move with them to the next station? ;-) ? Allen ? ? Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress 101 Independence Ave., S.W. Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. ? ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jkirk at SPRO.NET Wed Aug 17 19:34:15 2011 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (Jo) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 11 13:34:15 -0600 Subject: Asoka: Roads and Animals Message-ID: <161227093533.23782.6230220756743388972.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1374 Lines: 67 Dear List, Since I?m dying of curiosity, if I may ask, can someone tell me what is the edict?s term for ?curry?? Anthropologists are also skeptical of such number codes and have published about them-- but sorry, no references come to mind. Thanks Joanna " Obliquely, the Ist Rock Edict: "Formerly in the kitchen of king Devanampriya Priyadar?in many hundred thousands of animals (bah?ni pr??asatasah?srani) were killed daily for the sake of curry" [Hultzsch, 1925, p. 2]." Sounds to me that one ought to apply the rule David Henige gives for premodern figures above ten thousand in his Numbers from Nowhere: The American Indian Contact Population Debate: just as a beginning, knock off the last digit. Henige deals with evidence from a lot of other places besides the Americas, though as best I recall not South Asia. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Asian Division, Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3840 - Release Date: 08/17/11 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Aug 17 17:45:01 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 11 13:45:01 -0400 Subject: Asoka: Roads and Animals Message-ID: <161227093529.23782.1667510309920582330.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 930 Lines: 27 " Obliquely, the Ist Rock Edict: "Formerly in the kitchen of king Devanampriya Priyadar?in many hundred thousands of animals (bah?ni pr??asatasah?srani) were killed daily for the sake of curry" [Hultzsch, 1925, p. 2]." Sounds to me that one ought to apply the rule David Henige gives for premodern figures above ten thousand in his Numbers from Nowhere: The American Indian Contact Population Debate: just as a beginning, knock off the last digit. Henige deals with evidence from a lot of other places besides the Americas, though as best I recall not South Asia. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Asian Division, Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Aug 17 12:21:34 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 11 14:21:34 +0200 Subject: Fred in the news ... :-) Message-ID: <161227093522.23782.8740767560363400084.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 308 Lines: 6 http://www.bangaloremirror.com/article/10/20110817201108170046151189b42573f/Sick-and-tired-of-paying-bribes-American-joins-stir.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Aug 17 12:55:43 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 11 14:55:43 +0200 Subject: Indology FAQ Message-ID: <161227093525.23782.1509433655088402659.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1698 Lines: 44 Dear colleagues, Some of you may remember that a while back I established a Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) area for members of this list, at - http://faq.indology.info At the time, the idea was to provide us all with an area where we could write without fear of our text being subverted by other editors without university-level academic acumen (as happens sometimes in Wikipedia). In my mind, the FAQ would contain succinct essays by members of this forum on indological topics that come up frequently in the minds of the general public. The initiative got bogged down, though, with the security issues. Members had to apply for a password in order to gain access, and the whole thing was just too darn fiddly. I have now lifted the password restriction. Anyone may now write on the FAQ, and I hope I can encourage many of you to contribute a few words on any topic that you think could be interesting to the public, and on which you could give some authoritative words in a short compass. By removing the password restriction, I have opened the FAQ up to potential abuse. We'll all simply have to keep an eye on it, and hope things don't get out of hand. If it goes bad, we'll have to deal with that in due course. Please consider going over to http://faq.indology.info and contributing a few words on your favourite topic. The topical structure that I put there is just a suggestion. Feel completely free to add, change, delete, or rearrange. Best, Dominik -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk INDOLOGY committee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Wed Aug 17 20:53:14 2011 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 11 15:53:14 -0500 Subject: Asoka: Roads and Animals In-Reply-To: <002b01cc5d14$a6d9ea50$f48dbef0$@spro.net> Message-ID: <161227093537.23782.5397131964532975422.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1567 Lines: 46 The term is s?pa -- the expression s?p?tth?ya (Sk. s?p?rth?ya) -- for the sake of s?pa (probably more like stew, broth). PO On Aug 17, 2011, at 2:34 PM, Jo wrote: > > Dear List, > > Since I?m dying of curiosity, if I may ask, can someone tell me what is the edict?s term for ?curry?? > > Anthropologists are also skeptical of such number codes and have published about them-- but sorry, no references come to mind. > > Thanks > Joanna > > > > " Obliquely, the Ist Rock Edict: "Formerly in the kitchen of king Devanampriya Priyadar?in many hundred thousands of animals (bah?ni > pr??asatasah?srani) were killed daily for the sake of curry" > [Hultzsch, 1925, p. 2]." > > Sounds to me that one ought to apply the rule David Henige gives for premodern figures above ten thousand in his Numbers from Nowhere: The American Indian Contact Population Debate: just as a beginning, knock off the last digit. Henige deals with evidence from a lot of other places besides the Americas, though as best I recall not South Asia. > > > Allen > > Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. > Asian Division, Library of Congress > Washington, DC 20540-4810 > The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. > > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3840 - Release Date: 08/17/11 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adheesh1 at GMAIL.COM Wed Aug 17 23:13:17 2011 From: adheesh1 at GMAIL.COM (Adheesh Sathaye) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 11 16:13:17 -0700 Subject: Asoka: Roads and Animals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093550.23782.13424404131499009758.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1422 Lines: 44 Dear Stella and Dominik, Some?vara says that seven kinds of pulses can be used when making "s?pa", and they may be either milled/split or not ( (at M?nasoll?sa 3.1358-9 [vol. 2, p116]): "s?pakarma?i saptaite niyojy?? s?pak?rakai? || dalit? 'dalit?? caite pacan?y? yath?ruci |" He leaves the addition of meat as optional, suggesting that some people like to flavor it with pieces of mutton, kidneys, or bits of marrow (M?nasoll?sa 3.1371-2 [vol. 2, p117): "kecid icchanti rucyartha? me?am??sasya kha??ak?n || v?kk?n v?pi dvidh? bhinn?n medasa? ?akal?ni v? | " "s?pa" is of course also used much earlier in the Virata parvan of the MBH to describe what Bh?ma cooks as the s?pak?ra, but as far as I remember no specific details are given. Best, Adheesh ---- Adheesh Sathaye Department of Asian Studies University of British Columbia On Aug 17, 2011, at 2:52 PM, Stella Sandahl wrote: > I have a recollection that the word s?pa in the annabhoga chapter of the M?nasoll?sa refers to d?l, which in this text is cooked with meat esp. bone marrow. I don't have access to the text right now, but could find it later if anyone wants the exact reference. > Stella > -- > Stella Sandahl > ssandahl at sympatico.ca > > > > On 17-Aug-11, at 4:53 PM, Patrick Olivelle wrote: > >> The term is s?pa -- the expression s?p?tth?ya (Sk. s?p?rth?ya) -- for the sake of s?pa (probably more like stew, broth). >> >> PO >> From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA Wed Aug 17 21:52:26 2011 From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 11 17:52:26 -0400 Subject: Asoka: Roads and Animals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093546.23782.10118863291653332578.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2011 Lines: 72 I have a recollection that the word s?pa in the annabhoga chapter of the M?nasoll?sa refers to d?l, which in this text is cooked with meat esp. bone marrow. I don't have access to the text right now, but could find it later if anyone wants the exact reference. Stella -- Stella Sandahl ssandahl at sympatico.ca On 17-Aug-11, at 4:53 PM, Patrick Olivelle wrote: > The term is s?pa -- the expression s?p?tth?ya (Sk. > s?p?rth?ya) -- for the sake of s?pa (probably more like stew, > broth). > > PO > > > > On Aug 17, 2011, at 2:34 PM, Jo wrote: > >> >> Dear List, >> >> Since I?m dying of curiosity, if I may ask, can someone tell me >> what is the edict?s term for ?curry?? >> >> Anthropologists are also skeptical of such number codes and have >> published about them-- but sorry, no references come to mind. >> >> Thanks >> Joanna >> >> >> >> " Obliquely, the Ist Rock Edict: "Formerly in the kitchen of king >> Devanampriya Priyadar?in many hundred thousands of animals (bah?ni >> pr??asatasah?srani) were killed daily for the sake of curry" >> [Hultzsch, 1925, p. 2]." >> >> Sounds to me that one ought to apply the rule David Henige gives >> for premodern figures above ten thousand in his Numbers from >> Nowhere: The American Indian Contact Population Debate: just as a >> beginning, knock off the last digit. Henige deals with evidence >> from a lot of other places besides the Americas, though as best I >> recall not South Asia. >> >> >> Allen >> >> Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. >> Asian Division, Library of Congress >> Washington, DC 20540-4810 >> The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the >> Library of Congress. >> >> >> >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3840 - Release Date: >> 08/17/11 >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jkirk at SPRO.NET Thu Aug 18 00:04:56 2011 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (Jo) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 11 18:04:56 -0600 Subject: Asoka: Roads and Animals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093553.23782.14398475836037437977.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2247 Lines: 119 Dear Patrick? Thanks! Does this word relate to our term ?soup?? I would agree with a suggestion that this covers a broad selection of dishes?sort of like what we find in recipe books today: i.e., from a simple broth to stews or ragouts, wet or dry. It would be most informative if the p?ka??stra literature says more. Cheers, Joanna From: Patrick Olivelle [mailto:jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu] Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 2:53 PM To: Jo Cc: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Asoka: Roads and Animals The term is s?pa -- the expression s?p?tth?ya (Sk. s?p?rth?ya) -- for the sake of s?pa (probably more like stew, broth). PO On Aug 17, 2011, at 2:34 PM, Jo wrote: Dear List, Since I?m dying of curiosity, if I may ask, can someone tell me what is the edict?s term for ?curry?? Anthropologists are also skeptical of such number codes and have published about them-- but sorry, no references come to mind. Thanks Joanna " Obliquely, the Ist Rock Edict: "Formerly in the kitchen of king Devanampriya Priyadar?in many hundred thousands of animals (bah?ni pr??asatasah?srani) were killed daily for the sake of curry" [Hultzsch, 1925, p. 2]." Sounds to me that one ought to apply the rule David Henige gives for premodern figures above ten thousand in his Numbers from Nowhere: The American Indian Contact Population Debate: just as a beginning, knock off the last digit. Henige deals with evidence from a lot of other places besides the Americas, though as best I recall not South Asia. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Asian Division, Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3840 - Release Date: 08/17/11 _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3840 - Release Date: 08/17/11 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hhhock at ILLINOIS.EDU Thu Aug 18 00:41:00 2011 From: hhhock at ILLINOIS.EDU (Hans Henrich Hock) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 11 19:41:00 -0500 Subject: Asoka: Roads and Animals In-Reply-To: <008201cc5d3a$772ebda0$658c38e0$@spro.net> Message-ID: <161227093556.23782.8496024118389433899.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2916 Lines: 78 Dear Joanna, Skt. s?pa : Engl. soup must be a chance similarity. The English word either directly, or through reborrowing from French (which got it from some other Germanic dialect), goes back to Germanic sources. Its relatives are said to include Engl. (to) sup and Germ. saufen 'drink (of/like an animal)'. If there were a direct relationship, either English would have to have souf, or the Sanskrit word would have to be s?ba (that's because of the changes accounted for by Grimm's Law, which separate Germanic from the other Indo-European languages). Cheers, Hans Henrich On 17 Aug 2011, at 19:04, Jo wrote: > Dear Patrick? > > Thanks! Does this word relate to our term ?soup?? I would agree with a suggestion that this covers a broad selection of dishes?sort of like what we find in recipe books today: i.e., from a simple broth to stews or ragouts, wet or dry. It would be most informative if the p?ka??stra literaturesays more. > > Cheers, > Joanna > > > > From: Patrick Olivelle [mailto:jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 2:53 PM > To: Jo > Cc: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Asoka: Roads and Animals > > The term is s?pa -- the expression s?p?tth?ya (Sk. s?p?rth?ya) -- for the sake of s?pa (probably more like stew, broth). > > PO > > > > On Aug 17, 2011, at 2:34 PM, Jo wrote: > > > > Dear List, > > Since I?m dying of curiosity, if I may ask, can someone tell me what is the edict?s term for ?curry?? > > Anthropologists are also skeptical of such number codes and have published about them-- but sorry, no references come to mind. > > Thanks > Joanna > > > > " Obliquely, the Ist Rock Edict: "Formerly in the kitchen of king Devanampriya Priyadar?in many hundred thousands of animals (bah?ni > pr??asatasah?srani) were killed daily for the sake of curry" > [Hultzsch, 1925, p. 2]." > > Sounds to me that one ought to apply the rule David Henige gives for premodern figures above ten thousand in his Numbers from Nowhere: The American Indian Contact Population Debate: just as a beginning, knock off the last digit. Henige deals with evidence from a lot of other places besides the Americas, though as best I recall not South Asia. > > > Allen > > Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. > Asian Division, Library of Congress > Washington, DC 20540-4810 > The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. > > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3840 - Release Date: 08/17/11 > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3840 - Release Date: 08/17/11 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jkirk at SPRO.NET Thu Aug 18 02:48:22 2011 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (Jo) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 11 20:48:22 -0600 Subject: Asoka: Roads and Animals Message-ID: <161227093569.23782.16181722707993622397.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3369 Lines: 172 Dear Hans, Thanks for this, very clear. I have been pondering on this similarity for months! More cheers, Joanna From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Hans Henrich Hock Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 6:41 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Asoka: Roads and Animals Dear Joanna, Skt. s?pa : Engl. soup must be a chance similarity. The English word either directly, or through reborrowing from French (which got it from some other Germanic dialect), goes back to Germanic sources. Its relatives are said to include Engl. (to) sup and Germ. saufen 'drink (of/like an animal)'. If there were a direct relationship, either English would have to have souf, or the Sanskrit word would have to be s?ba (that's because of the changes accounted for by Grimm's Law, which separate Germanic from the other Indo-European languages). Cheers, Hans Henrich On 17 Aug 2011, at 19:04, Jo wrote: Dear Patrick? Thanks! Does this word relate to our term ?soup?? I would agree with a suggestion that this covers a broad selection of dishes?sort of like what we find in recipe books today: i.e., from a simple broth to stews or ragouts, wet or dry. It would be most informative if the p?ka??stra literaturesays more. Cheers, Joanna From: Patrick Olivelle [mailto:jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu] Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 2:53 PM To: Jo Cc: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Asoka: Roads and Animals The term is s?pa -- the expression s?p?tth?ya (Sk. s?p?rth?ya) -- for the sake of s?pa (probably more like stew, broth). PO On Aug 17, 2011, at 2:34 PM, Jo wrote: Dear List, Since I?m dying of curiosity, if I may ask, can someone tell me what is the edict?s term for ?curry?? Anthropologists are also skeptical of such number codes and have published about them-- but sorry, no references come to mind. Thanks Joanna " Obliquely, the Ist Rock Edict: "Formerly in the kitchen of king Devanampriya Priyadar?in many hundred thousands of animals (bah?ni pr??asatasah?srani) were killed daily for the sake of curry" [Hultzsch, 1925, p. 2]." Sounds to me that one ought to apply the rule David Henige gives for premodern figures above ten thousand in his Numbers from Nowhere: The American Indian Contact Population Debate: just as a beginning, knock off the last digit. Henige deals with evidence from a lot of other places besides the Americas, though as best I recall not South Asia. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Asian Division, Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3840 - Release Date: 08/17/11 _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3840 - Release Date: 08/17/11 _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3840 - Release Date: 08/17/11 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Thu Aug 18 02:07:23 2011 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 11 21:07:23 -0500 Subject: Asoka: Roads and Animals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093560.23782.5630207652772558387.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3161 Lines: 85 Yes, I agree, that this is simply a case of phonetic similarity without any etymological connection. On Aug 17, 2011, at 7:41 PM, Hans Henrich Hock wrote: > Dear Joanna, > > Skt. s?pa : Engl. soup must be a chance similarity. The English word either directly, or through reborrowing from French (which got it from some other Germanic dialect), goes back to Germanic sources. Its relatives are said to include Engl. (to) sup and Germ. saufen 'drink (of/like an animal)'. If there were a direct relationship, either English would have to have souf, or the Sanskrit word would have to be s?ba (that's because of the changes accounted for by Grimm's Law, which separate Germanic from the other Indo-European languages). > > Cheers, > > Hans Henrich > > > On 17 Aug 2011, at 19:04, Jo wrote: > >> Dear Patrick? >> >> Thanks! Does this word relate to our term ?soup?? I would agree with a suggestion that this covers a broad selection of dishes?sort of like what we find in recipe books today: i.e., from a simple broth to stews or ragouts, wet or dry. It would be most informative if the p?ka??stra literaturesays more. >> >> Cheers, >> Joanna >> >> >> >> From: Patrick Olivelle [mailto:jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu] >> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 2:53 PM >> To: Jo >> Cc: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Asoka: Roads and Animals >> >> The term is s?pa -- the expression s?p?tth?ya (Sk. s?p?rth?ya) -- for the sake of s?pa (probably more like stew, broth). >> >> PO >> >> >> >> On Aug 17, 2011, at 2:34 PM, Jo wrote: >> >> >> >> Dear List, >> >> Since I?m dying of curiosity, if I may ask, can someone tell me what is the edict?s term for ?curry?? >> >> Anthropologists are also skeptical of such number codes and have published about them-- but sorry, no references come to mind. >> >> Thanks >> Joanna >> >> >> >> " Obliquely, the Ist Rock Edict: "Formerly in the kitchen of king Devanampriya Priyadar?in many hundred thousands of animals (bah?ni >> pr??asatasah?srani) were killed daily for the sake of curry" >> [Hultzsch, 1925, p. 2]." >> >> Sounds to me that one ought to apply the rule David Henige gives for premodern figures above ten thousand in his Numbers from Nowhere: The American Indian Contact Population Debate: just as a beginning, knock off the last digit. Henige deals with evidence from a lot of other places besides the Americas, though as best I recall not South Asia. >> >> >> Allen >> >> Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. >> Asian Division, Library of Congress >> Washington, DC 20540-4810 >> The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. >> >> >> >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3840 - Release Date: 08/17/11 >> >> >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3840 - Release Date: 08/17/11 >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA Thu Aug 18 02:32:48 2011 From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 11 22:32:48 -0400 Subject: Asoka: Roads and Animals In-Reply-To: <055FCA4E-89F0-43C6-9520-E1A7571A779F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227093565.23782.15252818523666286791.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1852 Lines: 71 Thanks Adheesh for finding the correct reference! Stella -- Stella Sandahl ssandahl at sympatico.ca On 17-Aug-11, at 7:12 PM, Adheesh Sathaye wrote: > Dear Stella and Dominik, > > Some?vara says that seven kinds of pulses can be used when making > "s?pa", and they may be either milled/split or not ( (at > M?nasoll?sa 3.1358-9 [vol. 2, p116]): > > "s?pakarma?i saptaite niyojy?? s?pak?rakai? || > dalit? 'dalit?? caite pacan?y? yath?ruci |" > > He leaves the addition of meat as optional, suggesting that some > people like to flavor it with pieces of mutton, kidneys, or bits of > marrow (M?nasoll?sa 3.1371-2 [vol. 2, p117): > > "kecid icchanti rucyartha? me?am??sasya kha??ak?n || > v?kk?n v?pi dvidh? bhinn?n medasa? ?akal?ni v? | " > > "s?pa" is of course also used much earlier in the Virata parvan of > the MBH to describe what Bh?ma cooks as the s?pak?ra, but as far > as I remember no specific details are given. > > > Best, > > Adheesh > > ---- > Adheesh Sathaye > Department of Asian Studies > University of British Columbia > > > On Aug 17, 2011, at 2:52 PM, Stella Sandahl wrote: > >> I have a recollection that the word s?pa in the annabhoga chapter >> of the M?nasoll?sa refers to d?l, which in this text is cooked >> with meat esp. bone marrow. I don't have access to the text right >> now, but could find it later if anyone wants the exact reference. >> Stella >> -- >> Stella Sandahl >> ssandahl at sympatico.ca >> >> >> >> On 17-Aug-11, at 4:53 PM, Patrick Olivelle wrote: >> >>> The term is s?pa -- the expression s?p?tth?ya (Sk. >>> s?p?rth?ya) -- for the sake of s?pa (probably more like stew, >>> broth). >>> >>> PO >>> > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Aug 17 21:49:13 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 11 23:49:13 +0200 Subject: Asoka: Roads and Animals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093541.23782.8713683949511622906.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2042 Lines: 69 Is there any reason to think Skt s?pa is a false friend? Can we not say "soup"? There must be descriptions somewhere, surely in the p?ka??stra literature. In the ?yurveda??stra too: I must check. Dominik On 17 August 2011 22:53, Patrick Olivelle wrote: > The term is s?pa -- the expression s?p?tth?ya (Sk. s?p?rth?ya) -- for the > sake of s?pa (probably more like stew, broth). > > PO > > > > On Aug 17, 2011, at 2:34 PM, Jo wrote: > > ** ** > Dear List,**** > ** ** > Since I?m dying of curiosity, if I may ask, can someone tell me what is > the edict?s term for ?curry??**** > ** ** > Anthropologists are also skeptical of such number codes and have published > about them-- but sorry, no references come to mind.**** > ** ** > Thanks**** > Joanna**** > ** ** > ** ** > ** ** > " Obliquely, the Ist Rock Edict: "Formerly in the kitchen of king > Devanampriya Priyadar?in many hundred thousands of animals (bah?ni**** > pr??asatasah?srani) were killed daily for the sake of curry"**** > [Hultzsch, 1925, p. 2]."**** > ** ** > Sounds to me that one ought to apply the rule David Henige gives for > premodern figures above ten thousand in his Numbers from Nowhere: The > American Indian Contact Population Debate:* *just as a beginning, knock > off the last digit. Henige deals with evidence from a lot of other places > besides the Americas, though as best I recall not South Asia. **** > ** ** > ** ** > Allen**** > ** ** > Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.**** > Asian Division, Library of Congress**** > Washington, DC 20540-4810**** > The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of > Congress.**** > ** ** > ** ** > ** ** > ------------------------------ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3840 - Release Date: 08/17/11*** > * > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Aug 18 08:42:19 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 11 10:42:19 +0200 Subject: Asoka: Roads and Animals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093573.23782.3876670257248962063.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3509 Lines: 118 Ah yes. And Slavonic? Polish, Latvian zupa, Russian, Ukrainian ???, Lithuanian (interestingly) sriuba? Dominik On 18 August 2011 02:41, Hans Henrich Hock wrote: > Dear Joanna, > > Skt. s?pa : Engl. soup must be a chance similarity. The English word either > directly, or through reborrowing from French (which got it from some other > Germanic dialect), goes back to Germanic sources. Its relatives are said to > include Engl. (to) sup and Germ. saufen 'drink (of/like an animal)'. If > there were a direct relationship, either English would have to have souf, or > the Sanskrit word would have to be s?ba (that's because of the changes > accounted for by Grimm's Law, which separate Germanic from the other > Indo-European languages). > > Cheers, > > Hans Henrich > > > On 17 Aug 2011, at 19:04, Jo wrote: > > Dear Patrick?**** > ** ** > Thanks! Does this word relate to our term ?soup?? I would agree with a > suggestion that this covers a broad selection of dishes?sort of like what we > find in recipe books today: i.e., from a simple broth to stews or ragouts, > wet or dry. It would be most informative if the p?ka??stra literaturesays > more.**** > ** ** > Cheers,**** > Joanna**** > ** ** > **** > ** ** > ** ** > *From:* Patrick Olivelle [mailto:jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu] > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 17, 2011 2:53 PM > *To:* Jo > *Cc:* INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Asoka: Roads and Animals**** > ** ** > The term is s?pa -- the expression s?p?tth?ya (Sk. s?p?rth?ya) -- for the > sake of s?pa (probably more like stew, broth).**** > ** ** > PO**** > ** ** > ** ** > ** ** > On Aug 17, 2011, at 2:34 PM, Jo wrote:**** > > > **** > **** > Dear List,**** > **** > Since I?m dying of curiosity, if I may ask, can someone tell me what is > the edict?s term for ?curry??**** > **** > Anthropologists are also skeptical of such number codes and have published > about them-- but sorry, no references come to mind.**** > **** > Thanks**** > Joanna**** > **** > **** > **** > " Obliquely, the Ist Rock Edict: "Formerly in the kitchen of king > Devanampriya Priyadar?in many hundred thousands of animals (bah?ni**** > pr??asatasah?srani) were killed daily for the sake of curry"**** > [Hultzsch, 1925, p. 2]."**** > **** > Sounds to me that one ought to apply the rule David Henige gives for > premodern figures above ten thousand in his Numbers from Nowhere: The > American Indian Contact Population Debate:* *just as a beginning, knock > off the last digit. Henige deals with evidence from a lot of other places > besides the Americas, though as best I recall not South Asia. **** > **** > **** > Allen**** > **** > Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.**** > Asian Division, Library of Congress**** > Washington, DC 20540-4810**** > The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of > Congress.**** > **** > **** > **** > ------------------------------ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3840 - Release Date: 08/17/11*** > * > ** ** > ------------------------------ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3840 - Release Date: 08/17/11*** > * > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Thu Aug 18 19:24:43 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 11 15:24:43 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093586.23782.11546716163242266293.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4227 Lines: 105 Dear List, Two days ago I sent this forwarded note to the list -- so I intended -- but instead it was sent only to Artur. Maybe it will be of some small interest to others on the list, even though now it is quite late. Also, I would now add some words on another interesting aspect to this taxonomy question: in Vedic we have a basic distinction between domestic animals [pazus] and wild animals [mRgas]. Think of Levi-Strauss [and I think that you really should]. But even more interesting is the Vedic doctrine of the five canonical sacrificial victims [i.e., domestic animals]. They are listed here hierarchically, from the least potent sacrifice to the most potent: 5. sheep 4. goat 3. cattle 2. horse 1. human I have presented a couple of papers on this hierarchy of sacrificial victims in Vedic, but I haven't published anything yet. I plan to discuss this more fully in a forthcoming anthology of translations from the Rgveda, which will include much of my most recent work on the RV. Regarding this sacrificial hierarchy, I will discuss the logic of sacrifice in Vedic, the principle of substitution in Vedic [involving two sorts of substitutions: substituting upward and substituting downward]. I think that sacrificial substitution in Vedic implies that substitution equals identity. In other words, I have a new take on the system of Vedic bandhus. Note that sacrificing wild animals is common in Vedic, but that sacrificing domestic animals is far more powerful, as far as the Vedic clans and their gods are concerned. Sacrificing domestic animals to the gods is much more powerful than sacrificing wild animals to them. Why? Because we have invested so much of ourselves in them than we have in the wild animal that we were lucky to have taken down in a hunt. I think that this work that I have been doing for years may eventually help us to better understand Vedic metaphors [i.e., bandhus] in general. Note this: the human being in Vedic, while certainly the most valued of all domestic ainmals, is still just a domestic animal. I don't know about the rest of you, but for me this Vedic view rings true. George Thompson ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: George Thompson Date: Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question To: Artur Karp The trope "both two-footeds and four footeds" is very old in Vedic. It is frequent in the RV, mostly in this order [bipeds first], but the opposite order is not uncommon. ?This is a very ancient Indo-European trope found in many Indo-European languages. ?As far as I can tell, from a quick glance at the literature, there is no clear preference in Indo-European for one order over the other. ?In Avestan and Latin examples of the formulaic idea "two-footeds and four-footeds," the more common order has the quadrupeds before the bipeds. This is confirmed also in Avestan and Latin where we find the variant expression pasu-viira [a dvandva compound] in Avestan, and pecudesque virosque in Ovid. There is an extensive literature on this "merism" [see Calvert Watkins, *How to Kill a Dragon* and the earlier literature cited by him]. ?I don't think that the word order is significant [maybe just metrical, but I haven't been able to look at the meters]. Hope this helps [family health issues prevent me from being more thorough right now]. George On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 6:51 AM, Artur Karp wrote: >>> Girnar Rock Edict II: PaMthesU kUpA ca khAnApita, vrachA ca ropApitA paribhogAya pasu-manusAnaM. > > > >>> E. Hultzsch (1925, p. 4): "On the roads wells were caused to be dug , and trees were caused to be planted for the use of cattle and men." > > > >>> Jules Bloch (1950, p. 95) reverses the order, for him men must go first : "[...] ? l'usage des hommes et des b?tes". > > >> Is the order of the compound in the original based on any sort of priority, or merely on style, the presumption that in a dvandva longer words should come after shorter? > > > Dear Allen, > > I do not feel competent enough to reasonably comment > on your comment re word order in dvandva compounds. But would gladly > learn from the panditas on the List. > > Artur > From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Thu Aug 18 11:10:51 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 11 16:40:51 +0530 Subject: Query In-Reply-To: <85D1B6C8-3FA5-44F9-9E3D-9CB9B67C2F06@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <161227093577.23782.12704595888366916880.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 651 Lines: 20 As far as I know the latest was done by Dr.S.P. Narang. His ID is "S P Narang" Best DB --- On Sun, 14/8/11, Patrick Olivelle wrote: From: Patrick Olivelle Subject: [INDOLOGY] Query To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Sunday, 14 August, 2011, 9:18 PM I have seen and used a word-index to K?lid?sa, but I cannot remember the title or locate it in any library. Can anyone help? Thanks. Patrick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Thu Aug 18 12:34:40 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 11 18:04:40 +0530 Subject: Asoka: Roads and Animals In-Reply-To: <002b01cc5d14$a6d9ea50$f48dbef0$@spro.net> Message-ID: <161227093582.23782.12129848393015571976.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2240 Lines: 37 It is difficult to say if anything nearing ?Indian curry? of the West existed in Asoka?s time.? What is served in London and elsewhere as Indian curry is a modern thing. Curry is not an NIA word - and. according to the COED, is derived from Tamil ka?i. That is not the London curry. The term will not be heard in common north Indian kitchens. The nearest equivalents there are kaliya (almost the London curry), tarkari 'cooked green vegetable' etc. There are many other terms in different NIA languages.? Indigenous recipe books ie ones not from the pen of western trained specialists might make the position clear. But I do not know of any dependable research on the history of Indian cooking. Best DB ? --- On Wed, 17/8/11, Jo wrote: From: Jo Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Asoka: Roads and Animals To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 17 August, 2011, 7:34 PM ?Dear List, ?Since I?m dying of curiosity, if I may ask, can someone tell me what is the edict?s term for ?curry?? ?Anthropologists are also skeptical of such number codes and have published about them-- but sorry, no references come to mind. ?ThanksJoanna ? ? ?" Obliquely, the Ist Rock Edict: "Formerly in the kitchen of king Devanampriya Priyadar?in many hundred thousands of animals (bah?nipr??asatasah?srani) were killed daily for the sake of curry"[Hultzsch, 1925, p. 2]." ?Sounds to me that one ought to apply the rule David Henige gives for premodern figures above ten thousand in his Numbers from Nowhere: The American Indian Contact Population Debate: just as a beginning, knock off the last digit.? Henige deals with evidence from a lot of other places besides the Americas, though as best I recall not South Asia.? ? ?Allen ?Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.Asian Division, Library of CongressWashington, DC 20540-4810The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. ? ? ?No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3840 - Release Date: 08/17/11 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Fri Aug 19 18:52:08 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 11 14:52:08 -0400 Subject: taxonomy question In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F1AB552AE86@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227093589.23782.5142892957884196969.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1433 Lines: 40 Dear List, I am obviously not able to do email correctly these days. I had intended to forward to the list a note that I had sent to Artur three days ago, but once again I have failed to do so. Let's see if I can get it right this time. What I had sent to Artur was a note about the Vedic "merism" dvipad and catuSpad: Here it is [I hope]: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The trope "both two-footeds and four footeds" is very old in Vedic. It is frequent in the RV, mostly in this order [bipeds first], but the opposite order is not uncommon. This is a very ancient Indo-European trope found in many Indo-European languages. As far as I can tell, from a quick glance at the literature, there is no clear preference in Indo-European for one order over the other. In Avestan and Latin examples of the formulaic idea "two-footeds and four-footeds," the more common order has the quadrupeds before the bipeds. This is confirmed also in Avestan and Latin where we find the variant expression pasu-viira [a dvandva compound] in Avestan, and pecudesque virosque in Ovid. There is an extensive literature on this "merism" [see Calvert Watkins, *How to Kill a Dragon* and the earlier literature cited by him]. I don't think that the word order is significant [maybe just metrical, but I haven't been able to look at the meters]. Hope this helps [family health issues prevent me from being more thorough right now]. Best wishes, George From karp at UW.EDU.PL Fri Aug 19 21:49:34 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 11 23:49:34 +0200 Subject: taxonomy question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093592.23782.734951299992314881.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1114 Lines: 32 Dear George, I apologize for not reacting to your post promptly. And thank you for the clarification. If we follow the Vedic usage, Asoka Edicts 'pasu' should be translated not as "animals" but as "domestic (or: farm) animals". Ideologically less tempting, but it makes perfect sense. In the first Rock Edict (Girnar version) there appear two terms: 'jIvaM' and 'prANa'. Hultzsch translates them as "living being" and "animal". Where the text (line B) has: idha na kiMci jIvaM ArabhitpA prajUhitavyaM, are we to understand that - following Hultzsch - "Here no living being must be killed and sacrificed"? [Bloch: "Ici il est d?fendu de sacrifier en tuant un vivant quelconque"]. Considering the sacrificial context, the animal category represented by the phrase "living being" seems to be too broad. We do not in fact know who were the clerks working for A?oka. Is it possible that they (and their king as well) just had no idea about the rules of the Vedic sacrificial system? Or was that system already transformed to the extent that it allowed to sacrifice "any living being"? Regards, Artur Karp From baums at BERKELEY.EDU Sun Aug 21 01:13:31 2011 From: baums at BERKELEY.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 11 18:13:31 -0700 Subject: The courtesan's house In-Reply-To: <238E0D2A747D495CB4D760217A80CE83@Winston> Message-ID: <161227093605.23782.11695011001385621857.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 400 Lines: 21 Dear Lars, you are probably thinking of Vasantasen??s house in the M?cchaka?ika. Here a quick link to the description in Ryder?s translation: http://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.39015008144571 (also in Google Books: http://books.google.com/books?id=stSuygSBn6sC). All best, Stefan -- Dr. Stefan Baums South and Southeast Asian Studies, UC Berkeley School of Asian Studies, Universiteit Leiden From baums at BERKELEY.EDU Sun Aug 21 01:17:45 2011 From: baums at BERKELEY.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 11 18:17:45 -0700 Subject: The courtesan's house In-Reply-To: <20110821011331.GB17112@deepthought> Message-ID: <161227093608.23782.11150457409851329257.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 270 Lines: 12 PS. I posted in haste. The description starts on page 67. Here the complete link: http://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.39015008144571?urlappend=%3Bseq=103 -- Dr. Stefan Baums South and Southeast Asian Studies, UC Berkeley School of Asian Studies, Universiteit Leiden From palaniappa at AOL.COM Sat Aug 20 23:23:35 2011 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 11 19:23:35 -0400 Subject: Authorship of the Muk undam=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81l=C4=81?= Message-ID: <161227093598.23782.1712173177670299806.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 924 Lines: 18 Discussing the Vai??ava saint Kula?ekhara ??v?r and the author of Mukundam?l? In his book Viraha-Bhakti (p. 256, n. 56), Friedhelm Hardy says, "A king Kula?ekhara signs the Mukundam?l? (in the ?rutiphala), a Sanskrit stotra. Most authors have simply identified the two kings. Since I plan to deal extensively with the textual and authorship problem of the work elsewhere, I shall not enter here into the very complex situation. But I am convinced on the evidence I have collected that the author of the stotra is different from the ??v?r." Does anybody know if and where Hardy published his findings on the authorship of the Mukundam?l?? I would really appreciate if I can get a copy of the article. Thanks in advance. Regards, Palaniappan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at UW.EDU.PL Sat Aug 20 17:35:06 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 11 19:35:06 +0200 Subject: Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093595.23782.10029994703252169084.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 654 Lines: 24 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Artur Karp Date: 2011/8/20 Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question To: George Thompson Well, let me quit boring the participants of this list with my konstant karping re A?oka Edicts. But, one more question. If "idha na kiMci jIvaM ArabhitpA prajUhitavyaM" reflects A?oka's will that all earlier (Vedic) sacrifices involving killing animals be stopped altogether, then - in what way would be his successors' power legitimized? A?oka's claim to power is based on his participation in the Vedic ritual of royal consecration (abhiSeka). Regards, Artur Karp From lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO Sun Aug 21 00:55:23 2011 From: lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 11 02:55:23 +0200 Subject: The courtesan's house Message-ID: <161227093601.23782.1528869128247801485.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 667 Lines: 29 Dear members of the list! There is a passage in an Indic drama, I believe, which gives a good description of the house of a wealthy courtesan (complete with elephant and all). Do any of you happen to know where this may be? I have lost the reference, and it is sorely needed. Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse From: Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo - Norway Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 E-mail: lmfosse at getmail.no -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at KHECARI.COM Sun Aug 21 07:29:20 2011 From: jim at KHECARI.COM (James Mallinson) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 11 08:29:20 +0100 Subject: The courtesan's house In-Reply-To: <238E0D2A747D495CB4D760217A80CE83@Winston> Message-ID: <161227093615.23782.2372540817721652401.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 935 Lines: 40 Dear Lars, It's not a drama, but the tenth sarga of the B?hatkath??lokasa?graha has a lengthy description of a courtesan's mansion, elephant included. Yours, with best wishes, Jim On 21 Aug 2011, at 01:55, Lars Martin Fosse wrote: > Dear members of the list! > > There is a passage in an Indic drama, I believe, which gives a good > description of the house of a wealthy courtesan (complete with > elephant and all). Do any of you happen to know where this may be? I > have lost the reference, and it is sorely needed. > > Best regards, > > Lars Martin Fosse > > > From: > Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse > Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, > 0674 Oslo - Norway > Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 > Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 > E-mail: lmfosse at getmail.no > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Sun Aug 21 03:46:06 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 11 09:16:06 +0530 Subject: Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093611.23782.8188453402945436057.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1318 Lines: 42 Asoka was a reformer breaking with the past. See Rhys David's (Buddhist India) remarks on how through out the ancient world the ancient religions of customs and ritual were replaced by new ones based on ethics. Asoka represented this emergent ideology. Best DB --- On Sat, 20/8/11, Artur Karp wrote: From: Artur Karp Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Saturday, 20 August, 2011, 5:35 PM ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Artur Karp Date: 2011/8/20 Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question To: George Thompson Well, let me quit boring the participants of this list with my konstant karping re A?oka Edicts. But, one more question. If "idha na kiMci jIvaM ArabhitpA prajUhitavyaM" reflects A?oka's will that all earlier (Vedic) sacrifices involving killing animals be stopped altogether, then - in what way would be his successors' power legitimized? A?oka's claim to power is based on his participation in the Vedic ritual of royal consecration (abhiSeka). Regards, Artur Karp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at UW.EDU.PL Sun Aug 21 07:36:17 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 11 09:36:17 +0200 Subject: Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question In-Reply-To: <1313898366.61736.YahooMailClassic@web94812.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227093619.23782.10997829353838133836.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 507 Lines: 17 2011/8/21 Dipak Bhattacharya > Asoka was a reformer breaking with the past. As a reformer AND a politician - how far would A?oka go with his project of breaking with the past? To even try to answer this we would first need to know what was his idea about what constituted the past. Artur K. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steiner at MAILER.UNI-MARBURG.DE Sun Aug 21 08:51:38 2011 From: steiner at MAILER.UNI-MARBURG.DE (Roland Steiner) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 11 10:51:38 +0200 Subject: The courtesan's house In-Reply-To: <238E0D2A747D495CB4D760217A80CE83@Winston> Message-ID: <161227093622.23782.10888495613928298503.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 187 Lines: 12 Dear Lars Martin, ?y?milaka's P?dat??itaka contains a rich description of the architecture in a courtesan's quarter (esp. 33.7-34; ed. Schokker, p. 84 f.). Best regards, Roland From lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO Sun Aug 21 10:27:29 2011 From: lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 11 12:27:29 +0200 Subject: The courtesan's house In-Reply-To: <20110821011745.GC17112@deepthought> Message-ID: <161227093625.23782.9681497224810426598.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 982 Lines: 43 Amazing, Stefan! I looked through this drama without finding the passage. This is a perfect fit, even the elephant is there! I could not possibly ask for more. Many thanks to Al, Stefan and James for their excellent help! It makes my Sunday morning very bright! Lars Martin From: Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo - Norway Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 E-mail: lmfosse at getmail.no > -----Original Message----- > From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of > Stefan Baums > Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 3:18 AM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The courtesan's house > > PS. I posted in haste. The description starts on page 67. > Here the complete link: > > http://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.39015008144571?urlappend=%3Bseq=103 > > -- > Dr. Stefan Baums > South and Southeast Asian Studies, UC Berkeley School of > Asian Studies, Universiteit Leiden From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Sun Aug 21 10:47:26 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 11 16:17:26 +0530 Subject: Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question Message-ID: <161227093628.23782.12189686483756950323.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1764 Lines: 35 --- On Sun, 21/8/11, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question To: "Artur Karp" Date: Sunday, 21 August, 2011, 10:45 AM Intensive study of the inscriptions is the main instrument. That can be misused: V.Smith, for example, saw nothing beyond feeling of unity with animals, a view indirectly reiterated by Keith,? as if Asoka did not feel for man. D. D. Kosambi (junior) will help those who want to find the 'break'. The abolition of apavaahana is something mentioned by the emperor himself that was bound to result in loss of revenue and the enterpreneurship of the state. I need not state them here. After Kosambi and Romila Thapar it is not necessary to speculate on the break, nor difficult to do away with the previous garbage. The present correspondent's study is in Bengali , hence will not help Best DB --- On Sun, 21/8/11, Artur Karp wrote: From: Artur Karp Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question To: "Dipak Bhattacharya" Cc: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Sunday, 21 August, 2011, 7:36 AM 2011/8/21 Dipak Bhattacharya Asoka was a reformer breaking with the past. As a reformer AND a politician - how far would A?oka go with his project of ?breaking with the past? To even try to answer this we would first need to know what was his idea about what constituted the past.? Artur K.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Sun Aug 21 11:44:25 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 11 17:14:25 +0530 Subject: Fw: [INDOLOGY] Asokan break with the past Message-ID: <161227093632.23782.15455018205154627974.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2790 Lines: 63 21 08 11 This is in continuation of my previous mail. The question of break with the past is quite a discussed issue. One need not read Asoka?s mind but see the effect in the centuries after and before Christ, just as one need not read the mind of Pericles or Zarathustra to see the change in Greece or Persia after them that had made Rhys Davids to pass his comments on the first effects of the Iron Age in the ancient world. Since other works will not be available to the correspondent , R.C. Hazra?s Studies in the Puranic Records of Hindu rites and customs 207-210 along with the chapters in the CHI ?(I:221) referred to therein? are advised for consultation on the post-Asokan break in customs and relevant matter. Best DB --- On Sun, 21/8/11, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Sunday, 21 August, 2011, 10:47 AM --- On Sun, 21/8/11, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question To: "Artur Karp" Date: Sunday, 21 August, 2011, 10:45 AM Intensive study of the inscriptions is the main instrument. That can be misused: V.Smith, for example, saw nothing beyond feeling of unity with animals, a view indirectly reiterated by Keith,? as if Asoka did not feel for man. D. D. Kosambi (junior) will help those who want to find the 'break'. The abolition of apavaahana is something mentioned by the emperor himself that was bound to result in loss of revenue and the enterpreneurship of the state. I need not state them here. After Kosambi and Romila Thapar it is not necessary to speculate on the break, nor difficult to do away with the previous garbage. The present correspondent's study is in Bengali , hence will not help Best DB --- On Sun, 21/8/11, Artur Karp wrote: From: Artur Karp Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question To: "Dipak Bhattacharya" Cc: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Sunday, 21 August, 2011, 7:36 AM 2011/8/21 Dipak Bhattacharya Asoka was a reformer breaking with the past. As a reformer AND a politician - how far would A?oka go with his project of ?breaking with the past? To even try to answer this we would first need to know what was his idea about what constituted the past.? Artur K.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Aug 22 09:55:15 2011 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 11 04:55:15 -0500 Subject: Report on Skt MSS in China and Tibet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093640.23782.4150635272866250878.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 614 Lines: 23 Dear Dominik, The timing seems to be connected with the progress of the ambitious state-sponsored project of photographing and registering every scrap of Sanskrit preserved in the Tibetan Autonomous Region. Though access to these materials will no doubt remain difficult for some time, the results of the overall project, in the form of handlists or catalogues, will no doubt begin to become available over the coming years. best, Matthew Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Aug 22 09:43:15 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 11 11:43:15 +0200 Subject: Report on Skt MSS in China and Tibet Message-ID: <161227093636.23782.10433547766898996407.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 634 Lines: 18 http://english.cri.cn/6909/2011/08/22/2821s654607.htm Does anyone know why the state-run Xinhua news agency should issue this particular piece of non-news at this time? For anyone coming to this afresh, I recommend the essay "A Tale of Leaves" by Ernst Steinkellner, freely downloadable here: http://ikga.oeaw.ac.at/Mat.html, and the *Sanskrit Manuscripts in China*proceedings ed. Steinkellner, Qing, & Krasser, from the same site. Dominik Wujastyk Vienna -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athr at LOC.GOV Mon Aug 22 19:08:31 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 11 15:08:31 -0400 Subject: "courtesan" as translation Message-ID: <161227093643.23782.11145946236711583197.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2960 Lines: 31 Lars Martin's question raises another I have been meaning to raise in this forum. Does the word "courtesan," which seems to be standard nowadays for referring to pre-modern Indian female sex workers, correspond to any Sanskrit lexeme? I seem to recall going through Ludwik Sternbach's Vesya: Synonyms and Aphorisms (Bombay, 1945), to which, as I see from JAOS 71 (1951), "Legal Position of Prostitutes According to Kau?ilya's Artha??stra, p. 25n, he published a "First supplement," in Bharatiya Vidya 11, 256, and planned a "Second supplement." (Was all this accumulated in his Gan?ika?-vr?tta-san?grahah?, or, Texts on courtezans in classical Sanskrit (Hoshiarpur, 1953)?). Anyway, several years ago I went through his 1945 publication and could not find that there was anything corresponding to a distinction between "courtesan" (high-class, cultivated, expensive) and "prostitute" or "whore," with the exception of compounds like rAjagaNikA, "royal prostitute," presumably having the characteristics just cited for "courtesans," since she would be for the entertainment of the king's guests. But this is a difference primarily in place of business, not quality. For those outside the court, the same terms seem to be used for everyone from the village or alley whore to the top of the line variety. I think there is in at least in some modern Indo-Aryan languages such a distinction, between raNDI or veZyA and the like and tawAIf. But I don't see it in Sanskrit. Do others see it or not? I am also wondering whether I am making "courtesan" a more marked term that some other English-speakers do. In the online Digital Dictionaries of South Asia I find for several IA languages that a string of synonyms is given for raNDI et al.: "whore," "courtesan," "prostitute," "strumpet," etc. (Somehow I have not found a search strategy that turns up tawAIF for comparison.) Of course, many of those dictionaries are of the nineteenth or early twentieth century, when usage may have been different. But I also notice that the online OED calls "courtesan" "a somewhat euphemistic appellation," citing examples going back centuries. Is this contemporary translation habit a matter of euphemism? Surely not all Indian prostitutes, not even all assembled to take part in public processions or the like, were drop-dead beautiful, cultivated in all the arts, and expensive. Also, unpleasant things are said about the ladies at both the bottom and the top of the trade. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress 101 Independence Ave., S.W. Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Mon Aug 22 22:05:03 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 11 18:05:03 -0400 Subject: Fred in the news ... :-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093650.23782.6967624427527471377.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2339 Lines: 48 Dear List, I got a note yesterday from Fred Smith who is still in India. He insists in the following note that what he has been quoted as saying in a number of interviews in Indian papers has not been accurately reported, and so he has asked me to pass on to you this correction [Fred does not have good internet access in India now, so he has asked me to post this note to the list]: "I was informed that a story on me from the Mirror (a slightly dubious newspaper in Bangalore) was posted to Indology. I'm not usually on my own computer in India, for internet at least, and can't look at Indology right now. Can you please reply to Indology that most of what's in that story was wholly invented by the Indian press. I didn't say most of what's reported there, which is why it doesn't sound like me. They wanted cookie cutter pablum, and put it in my mouth. I actually tried to feed them hard, but digestible, nuggets, but apparently they were regurgitated without leaving a trace. I don't know how many times I've told myself never to talk to any reporter. I went back on this and what came out were words I would never say. The fact is that I went to the Mysore demonstrations in support of the very necessary anti-corruption initiative inspired by Anna Hazare. I went with some people I know well there, who in fact organized the Mysore demonstration. The press and TV were there, and seemed to be interested in the tall videshi. Egged on by my friends there, I gave a few interviews. I tried, at some length, to tie corruption in with the catastrophic environmental problems in India, that the same impulse has led to both of them, but none of that made it into the newspapers. I guess it was too much for the press to handle, probably more so for editors than for reporters. Supposedly I was on NDTV and a few other channels, but never saw any of it. I gave a couple of other press interviews, including a long and substantive one to the Times of India, Bangalore edition, but have not followed up on any of it." So, this is what Fred has to say about the news from Fred in India! Best wishes, George On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 8:21 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > http://www.bangaloremirror.com/article/10/20110817201108170046151189b42573f/Sick-and-tired-of-paying-bribes-American-joins-stir.html > > From lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO Mon Aug 22 20:54:48 2011 From: lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 11 22:54:48 +0200 Subject: "courtesan" as translation In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F1AB6E7CBA4@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227093647.23782.14820112944282777558.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5519 Lines: 99 Allen, Ludvik Sternbach discusses the various terms for prostitutes in his article "Legal Position of Prostitutes according the Kautiliya Arthashastra". Whether a prostitute is regarded as a cultural treasure or trash depends to some extent on your perspective. Ganikas were much sought after and admired like movie stars and actesses today, but the latter also used to have (or still have) a somewhat iffy reputation. Go back a few of centuries, and actors and actresses were buried outside the churchyard in our part of the world. It seems to me that ganikas had a similarly ambivalent position. I think that for translatorial purposes, "courtesan" works fine because it gives the right association. A lady like Ninon de Lenclos, renowned for her beauty and intelligence, certainly fits the bill in this part of the world, and her Indian ganika colleagues seem to have been up to her standards, although they didn't last so long in the profession. Below the ganikas, you get the rupajivas (women who lived off their good looks, but lacked the cultural baggage of the ganikas), and then of course all sorts of women. The Kamasutra actually gives us an unpleasant picture of women sexually used and abused by males who were their social superiors. The ganikas and rupajivas owned jewels, or they were set up with jewelry by their patrons (e.g. the king, who made a lot of money from this entertainment industry.) Because they were important, they had some legal protection, particularly if they worked for the king (see Sternbach). To moralists, all prostitutes would be whores, but traditionally, both we and the Indians classified these women differently depending upon their style and culture. The ganikas would at least be rich -- as long as it lasted -- and as we know, even own an elephant. It's a bit like owning a Rolls Royce. Ordinary prostitutes did not own elephants. As for modern terms, I would not know, but I suspect that in the cultural sense, the old-fashioned ganika has drifted into the role of the Bollywood heroine. The latter seems certainly as popular and f?ted as the ganikas once were. LM From: Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo - Norway Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 E-mail: lmfosse at getmail.no _____ From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Thrasher, Allen Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 9:09 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] "courtesan" as translation Lars Martin's question raises another I have been meaning to raise in this forum. Does the word "courtesan," which seems to be standard nowadays for referring to pre-modern Indian female sex workers, correspond to any Sanskrit lexeme? I seem to recall going through Ludwik Sternbach's Vesya: Synonyms and Aphorisms (Bombay, 1945), to which, as I see from JAOS 71 (1951), "Legal Position of Prostitutes According to Kau?ilya's Artha??stra, p. 25n, he published a "First supplement," in Bharatiya Vidya 11, 256, and planned a "Second supplement." (Was all this accumulated in his Gan?ika?-vr?tta-san?grahah?, or, Texts on courtezans in classical Sanskrit (Hoshiarpur, 1953)?). Anyway, several years ago I went through his 1945 publication and could not find that there was anything corresponding to a distinction between "courtesan" (high-class, cultivated, expensive) and "prostitute" or "whore," with the exception of compounds like rAjagaNikA, "royal prostitute," presumably having the characteristics just cited for "courtesans," since she would be for the entertainment of the king's guests. But this is a difference primarily in place of business, not quality. For those outside the court, the same terms seem to be used for everyone from the village or alley whore to the top of the line variety. I think there is in at least in some modern Indo-Aryan languages such a distinction, between raNDI or veZyA and the like and tawAIf. But I don't see it in Sanskrit. Do others see it or not? I am also wondering whether I am making "courtesan" a more marked term that some other English-speakers do. In the online Digital Dictionaries of South Asia I find for several IA languages that a string of synonyms is given for raNDI et al.: "whore," "courtesan," "prostitute," "strumpet," etc. (Somehow I have not found a search strategy that turns up tawAIF for comparison.) Of course, many of those dictionaries are of the nineteenth or early twentieth century, when usage may have been different. But I also notice that the online OED calls "courtesan" "a somewhat euphemistic appellation," citing examples going back centuries. Is this contemporary translation habit a matter of euphemism? Surely not all Indian prostitutes, not even all assembled to take part in public processions or the like, were drop-dead beautiful, cultivated in all the arts, and expensive. Also, unpleasant things are said about the ladies at both the bottom and the top of the trade. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress 101 Independence Ave., S.W. Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Aug 23 12:21:19 2011 From: harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM (Harsha Dehejia) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 11 08:21:19 -0400 Subject: Jnana Lila Message-ID: <161227093654.23782.10924797274826562987.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 350 Lines: 17 Friends~ Has anyone heard of a text in Brajbhash called Jnana Lila. It is a conversation between Krushna and Uddhava. Kind regards. Harsha Harsha V. Dehejia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Tue Aug 23 19:01:44 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 11 15:01:44 -0400 Subject: Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question In-Reply-To: <1313923646.82088.YahooMailClassic@web94813.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227093660.23782.15501931916213623161.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 628 Lines: 31 Dear List Maybe nobody noticed my mistake, or maybe many of you did, but you decided to forgive me. In any case, the Vedic hierarchy of sacrificial victims is not: 5. sheep 4. goat 3. cattle 2. horse 1. human It is instead: 5. goat 4. sheep 3. cattle 2. horse 1. human I make this mistake all the time. It is clear that in my urban world the value of the goat and the sheep is negligible. But this is not true of the Vedic clans. Best, George -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hellwig7 at GMX.DE Tue Aug 23 18:12:18 2011 From: hellwig7 at GMX.DE (Oliver Hellwig) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 11 19:12:18 +0100 Subject: DCS update Message-ID: <161227093657.23782.13468300519338097870.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 616 Lines: 25 Dear list, the DCS now offers the possibility to search for Sanskrit words based on their meanings found in the MW: * Activate the field "Search for meanings" on the query page (http://kjc- fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/index.php?contents=abfrage). * Type, for instance, *tree* to find all Sanskrit lexemes that may have to do something with a tree. Please note that the results of this function do NOT prove that any of the meanings is also referenced in the DCS! Best regards, Oliver Hellwig ------ PD Dr. Oliver Hellwig South-Asia Institute Im Neuenheimer Feld 330 69120 Heidelberg, Germany From peterfriedlander at YAHOO.COM.AU Wed Aug 24 08:31:08 2011 From: peterfriedlander at YAHOO.COM.AU (Peter Friedlander) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 11 01:31:08 -0700 Subject: jnana lila In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093664.23782.6768840534950928213.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 460 Lines: 17 Perhaps the text by Charandas in the Bhaktisagar -------------------------------- Dr Peter G. Friedlander Senior Lecturer in Hindi and Buddhist Studies Asian Studies School of Social Sciences La Trobe University, VIC 3086 Tel: 61 + 3 9479 1400 Email p.friedlander at latrobe.edu.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hellwig7 at GMX.DE Wed Aug 24 08:40:10 2011 From: hellwig7 at GMX.DE (Oliver Hellwig) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 11 09:40:10 +0100 Subject: DCS update Message-ID: <161227093668.23782.10117368281142468454.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 148 Lines: 8 ... the link I posted was wrong. Try this one: http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/index.php?contents=abfrage Best, Oliver Hellwig From hwtull at MSN.COM Wed Aug 24 16:35:41 2011 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 11 12:35:41 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093683.23782.5134311202418043529.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1442 Lines: 55 There is, but it is rather elaborate. See Satapatha Brahmana 13.6 for Eggeling?s translation, http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbr/sbe44/sbe44111.htm Herman Tull Princeton, NJ From: Slakter, David Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 12:10 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question Is there no hierarchy within the category of humans for the Vedic sacrifice? That is, if you're going to sacrifice a human, will any human do? David Slakter -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of George Thompson [gthomgt at GMAIL.COM] Sent: 23 August 2011 14:01 To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question Dear List Maybe nobody noticed my mistake, or maybe many of you did, but you decided to forgive me. In any case, the Vedic hierarchy of sacrificial victims is not: 5. sheep 4. goat 3. cattle 2. horse 1. human It is instead: 5. goat 4. sheep 3. cattle 2. horse 1. human I make this mistake all the time. It is clear that in my urban world the value of the goat and the sheep is negligible. But this is not true of the Vedic clans. Best, George -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From veerankp at GMAIL.COM Wed Aug 24 09:16:20 2011 From: veerankp at GMAIL.COM (Veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 11 14:46:20 +0530 Subject: Fred in the news ... :-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093671.23782.7474333859057534267.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3199 Lines: 74 dear all. I hope people understand time and again that scholars should not be burdened with topics not related to indology. veeranarayana pandurangi On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 3:35 AM, George Thompson wrote: > Dear List, > > I got a note yesterday from Fred Smith who is still in India. He > insists in the following note that what he has been quoted as saying > in a number of interviews in Indian papers has not been accurately > reported, and so he has asked me to pass on to you this correction > [Fred does not have good internet access in India now, so he has asked > me to post this note to the list]: > > "I was informed that a story on me from the Mirror (a slightly dubious > newspaper in Bangalore) was posted to Indology. I'm not usually on my > own computer in India, for internet at least, and can't look at > Indology right now. Can you please reply to Indology that most of > what's in that story was wholly invented by the Indian press. I didn't > say most of what's reported there, which is why it doesn't sound like > me. They wanted cookie cutter pablum, and put it in my mouth. I > actually tried to feed them hard, but digestible, nuggets, but > apparently they were regurgitated without leaving a trace. I don't > know how many times I've told myself never to talk to any reporter. I > went back on this and what came out were words I would never say. The > fact is that I went to the Mysore demonstrations in support of the > very necessary anti-corruption initiative inspired by Anna Hazare. I > went with some people I know well there, who in fact organized the > Mysore demonstration. The press and TV were there, and seemed to be > interested in the tall videshi. Egged on by my friends there, I gave a > few interviews. I tried, at some length, to tie corruption in with the > catastrophic environmental problems in India, that the same impulse > has led to both of them, but none of that made it into the newspapers. > I guess it was too much for the press to handle, probably more so for > editors than for reporters. Supposedly I was on NDTV and a few other > channels, but never saw any of it. I gave a couple of other press > interviews, including a long and substantive one to the Times of > India, Bangalore edition, but have not followed up on any of it." > > So, this is what Fred has to say about the news from Fred in India! > > Best wishes, > > George > > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 8:21 AM, Dominik Wujastyk > wrote: > > > http://www.bangaloremirror.com/article/10/20110817201108170046151189b42573f/Sick-and-tired-of-paying-bribes-American-joins-stir.html > > > > > -- Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi Head, Dept of Darshanas, Yoganandacharya Bhavan, Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026. ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ????????? ??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ??????????????? ?????????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From D.Slakter at LIVERPOOL.AC.UK Wed Aug 24 16:10:06 2011 From: D.Slakter at LIVERPOOL.AC.UK (Slakter, David) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 11 16:10:06 +0000 Subject: Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question Message-ID: <161227093679.23782.7996888228786960527.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1056 Lines: 38 Is there no hierarchy within the category of humans for the Vedic sacrifice? That is, if you're going to sacrifice a human, will any human do? David Slakter ________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of George Thompson [gthomgt at GMAIL.COM] Sent: 23 August 2011 14:01 To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question Dear List Maybe nobody noticed my mistake, or maybe many of you did, but you decided to forgive me. In any case, the Vedic hierarchy of sacrificial victims is not: 5. sheep 4. goat 3. cattle 2. horse 1. human It is instead: 5. goat 4. sheep 3. cattle 2. horse 1. human I make this mistake all the time. It is clear that in my urban world the value of the goat and the sheep is negligible. But this is not true of the Vedic clans. Best, George -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Aug 24 20:34:26 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 11 16:34:26 -0400 Subject: taxonomy question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093686.23782.169751931044120542.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2440 Lines: 61 A strikingly small number of females listed. Without actually counting, I would estimate at most 10%. But then, it is a puruSamedha or naramedha, "Sacrifice of a man/men (vir/viri)," not manuSyamedha, "sacrifice of a human being/human beings." And the central deity involved is PuruSa, "the Male Person" (or some similar phrase). Aside from the basic list of the varNas, there doesn't seem to be an attempt to represent all kinds and conditions of men (either viri or homines), but an apparently somewhat random assortment. Were the abstractions listed already treated as deities before the lists were compiled (with some sort of attempt at comprehensiveness), so that the procedure was from deity to type of person rather than from type of person to deity? Allen From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Herman Tull Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 12:36 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question There is, but it is rather elaborate. See Satapatha Brahmana 13.6 for Eggeling?s translation, http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbr/sbe44/sbe44111.htm Herman Tull Princeton, NJ From: Slakter, David Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 12:10 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question Is there no hierarchy within the category of humans for the Vedic sacrifice? That is, if you're going to sacrifice a human, will any human do? David Slakter ________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of George Thompson [gthomgt at GMAIL.COM] Sent: 23 August 2011 14:01 To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question Dear List Maybe nobody noticed my mistake, or maybe many of you did, but you decided to forgive me. In any case, the Vedic hierarchy of sacrificial victims is not: 5. sheep 4. goat 3. cattle 2. horse 1. human It is instead: 5. goat 4. sheep 3. cattle 2. horse 1. human I make this mistake all the time. It is clear that in my urban world the value of the goat and the sheep is negligible. But this is not true of the Vedic clans. Best, George -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Aug 24 15:14:05 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 11 17:14:05 +0200 Subject: Fred in the news ... :-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093674.23782.8642066304862750403.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4031 Lines: 95 Please note that while Veeranarayana Pandurangi is entitled to his opinion, he does not set the agenda for the scope of discussions on this forum, which remain as ever, open to all matters relating to indology and indologists, as broadly characterized here . If anyone wishes to discuss Anna Hazare and the current opposition to corruption in Indian public life, please go ahead. It would be best, though, if it could be related to current or past indologists (as it has been) or to historical or cultural indological perspectives. What would Kau?alya say, for example? :-) Dominik Wujastyk INDOLOGY forum founder On 24 August 2011 11:16, Veeranarayana Pandurangi wrote: > dear all. > I hope people understand time and again that scholars should not be > burdened with topics not related to indology. > veeranarayana pandurangi > > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 3:35 AM, George Thompson wrote: > >> Dear List, >> >> I got a note yesterday from Fred Smith who is still in India. He >> insists in the following note that what he has been quoted as saying >> in a number of interviews in Indian papers has not been accurately >> reported, and so he has asked me to pass on to you this correction >> [Fred does not have good internet access in India now, so he has asked >> me to post this note to the list]: >> >> "I was informed that a story on me from the Mirror (a slightly dubious >> newspaper in Bangalore) was posted to Indology. I'm not usually on my >> own computer in India, for internet at least, and can't look at >> Indology right now. Can you please reply to Indology that most of >> what's in that story was wholly invented by the Indian press. I didn't >> say most of what's reported there, which is why it doesn't sound like >> me. They wanted cookie cutter pablum, and put it in my mouth. I >> actually tried to feed them hard, but digestible, nuggets, but >> apparently they were regurgitated without leaving a trace. I don't >> know how many times I've told myself never to talk to any reporter. I >> went back on this and what came out were words I would never say. The >> fact is that I went to the Mysore demonstrations in support of the >> very necessary anti-corruption initiative inspired by Anna Hazare. I >> went with some people I know well there, who in fact organized the >> Mysore demonstration. The press and TV were there, and seemed to be >> interested in the tall videshi. Egged on by my friends there, I gave a >> few interviews. I tried, at some length, to tie corruption in with the >> catastrophic environmental problems in India, that the same impulse >> has led to both of them, but none of that made it into the newspapers. >> I guess it was too much for the press to handle, probably more so for >> editors than for reporters. Supposedly I was on NDTV and a few other >> channels, but never saw any of it. I gave a couple of other press >> interviews, including a long and substantive one to the Times of >> India, Bangalore edition, but have not followed up on any of it." >> >> So, this is what Fred has to say about the news from Fred in India! >> >> Best wishes, >> >> George >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 8:21 AM, Dominik Wujastyk >> wrote: >> > >> http://www.bangaloremirror.com/article/10/20110817201108170046151189b42573f/Sick-and-tired-of-paying-bribes-American-joins-stir.html >> > >> > >> > > > > -- > Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi > Head, Dept of Darshanas, > Yoganandacharya Bhavan, > Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post > Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026. > > ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ????????? > ??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ??????????????? > ?????????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? > ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palaniappa at AOL.COM Thu Aug 25 01:01:49 2011 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 11 21:01:49 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093690.23782.13268960105582840756.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2512 Lines: 101 The following is interesting. "10. For the priesthood he seizes a Br?hmana, for the Br?hmana is the priesthood: he thus joins priesthood to priesthood 2;--for the nobility he seizes a R?ganya, for the R?ganya is the nobility: he thus joins nobility to nobility;--for the Maruts (he seizes) a Vaisya, for the Maruts are the clans (peasants): he thus joins peasantry to peasantry;-- p. 410 for (religious) toil (he seizes) a S?dra, for the S?dra is toil: he thus joins toil to toil;" ... "THE (SYMBOLICAL) VICTIMS OF THE PURUSHAMEDHA 1. I. 1. To the priesthood (he consecrates) a Br?hmana--2. To the nobility a Kshatriya--3. To the Maruts a Vaisya--4. To penance (hardship, tapas) a Sidra--" Why is ??dra equated to (religious) toil/penance/tapas - not just mundane labor? How does this relate to the ban on ??dra performing Tapas as in the case of ?ambuka in R?m?ya?a? Thanks in advance. Regards, Palaniappan -----Original Message----- From: Herman Tull To: INDOLOGY Sent: Wed, Aug 24, 2011 7:35 am Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question There is, but it is rather elaborate. See Satapatha Brahmana 13.6 for Eggeling?s translation, http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbr/sbe44/sbe44111.htm Herman Tull Princeton, NJ From: Slakter, David Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 12:10 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question Is there no hierarchy within the category of humans for the Vedic sacrifice? That is, if you're going to sacrifice a human, will any human do? David Slakter From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of George Thompson [gthomgt at GMAIL.COM] Sent: 23 August 2011 14:01 To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question Dear List Maybe nobody noticed my mistake, or maybe many of you did, but you decided to forgive me. In any case, the Vedic hierarchy of sacrificial victims is not: 5. sheep 4. goat 3. cattle 2. horse 1. human It is instead: 5. goat 4. sheep 3. cattle 2. horse 1. human I make this mistake all the time. It is clear that in my urban world the value of the goat and the sheep is negligible. But this is not true of the Vedic clans. Best, George -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Thu Aug 25 18:38:17 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 11 14:38:17 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093693.23782.14640972071422419563.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3422 Lines: 103 Hello Herman, et al., This SB passage is nice, but, yes, rather too elaborate. Maybe I can simplify things without being too simplistic. Here is how I would answer David Slakter's question: The Vedic theory of sacrifice is in my view a theory of debt [r.n.a]. Any good thing that comes your way you owe to the blessings of the gods. So you pay back by offering a sacrifice to them. If you want to pay back as much as possible, you sacrifice as much as you can. Maybe a captured enemy would do, or some insignificant slave. Nevertheless, they are human pashus, so the sacrifice is great, and potent. Nevertheless, it is a much greater sacrifice, and a much more powerful one, if you sacrifice someone of much more, even immense, significance to you: like a son or a daughter. Biblical Abraham knew this. Greek Agamemnon knew it too. And Vedic Shunahshepa's unmentionable Brahmin father, who behaved worse than a Shudra, also knew it. All of these sacrificial animals, from the human all the way down to the lowliest, are simply substitutes, standing in for yourself, you the sacrificer. If you want to make a big down payment on your debt, then you substitute upward, and you sacrifice someone who is really significant to you, like a son or a daughter. If you want to make only a moderate down payment on your debt, then you substitute downward, and offer up a sheep or a goat. And if you aren't very serious about paying off your debt to the gods, well, you can sacrifice whatever is at hand: some bird, for example. But that kind of behavior will not please the gods, nor our contemporary banks. So your credit rating as a Vedic warrior will be downgraded severely if you do so. Of course, the logic of this economy means that if you want to pay up completely, what you have to to do is sacrifice yourself. But there aren't too many of us who would be willing to go that far. So, in fact, we sacrifice our children instead of ourselves. It has always been like this for us, I think, we servants of the gods. George On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Herman Tull wrote: > There is, but it is rather elaborate. > > See Satapatha Brahmana 13.6 > > for Eggeling?s translation, > http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbr/sbe44/sbe44111.htm > > Herman Tull > Princeton, NJ > > From: Slakter, David > Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 12:10 PM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question > > Is there no hierarchy within the category of humans for the Vedic > sacrifice?? That is, if you're going to sacrifice a human, will any human > do? > > David Slakter > > ________________________________ > From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of George Thompson > [gthomgt at GMAIL.COM] > Sent: 23 August 2011 14:01 > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question > > Dear List > > Maybe nobody noticed my mistake, or maybe many of you did, but you decided > to forgive me.? In any case, the Vedic hierarchy of sacrificial victims is > not: > > 5. sheep > 4. goat > 3. cattle > 2. horse > 1. human > > It is instead: > > 5. goat > 4. sheep > 3. cattle > 2. horse > 1. human > > I make this mistake all the time.? It is clear that in my urban world the > value of the goat and the sheep is negligible.? But this is not true of the > Vedic clans. > > Best, > George > From lubint at WLU.EDU Mon Aug 29 01:34:22 2011 From: lubint at WLU.EDU (Lubin, Tim) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 11 21:34:22 -0400 Subject: tapase "suudram [aalabhate] in TB 3.4.1.1ff / VS 30 (was "taxonomy question") Message-ID: <161227093696.23782.16077740689089573080.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3041 Lines: 83 tapas here ought to be understood as 'pain', 'suffering' -- e.g., from mundane labor, just as you suggest -- without the notion of ascetic discipline Tim Lubin From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 9:02 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question The following is interesting. "10. For the priesthood he seizes a Br?hmana, for the Br?hmana is the priesthood: he thus joins priesthood to priesthood 2;--for the nobility he seizes a R?ganya, for the R?ganya is the nobility: he thus joins nobility to nobility;--for the Maruts (he seizes) a Vaisya, for the Maruts are the clans (peasants): he thus joins peasantry to peasantry;-- p. 410 for (religious) toil (he seizes) a S?dra, for the S?dra is toil: he thus joins toil to toil;" ... "THE (SYMBOLICAL) VICTIMS OF THE PURUSHAMEDHA 1. I. 1. To the priesthood (he consecrates) a Br?hmana--2. To the nobility a Kshatriya--3. To the Maruts a Vaisya--4. To penance (hardship, tapas) a Sidra--" Why is ??dra equated to (religious) toil/penance/tapas - not just mundane labor? How does this relate to the ban on ??dra performing Tapas as in the case of ?ambuka in R?m?ya?a? Thanks in advance. Regards, Palaniappan -----Original Message----- From: Herman Tull To: INDOLOGY Sent: Wed, Aug 24, 2011 7:35 am Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question There is, but it is rather elaborate. See Satapatha Brahmana 13.6 for Eggeling?s translation, http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbr/sbe44/sbe44111.htm Herman Tull Princeton, NJ From: Slakter, David Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 12:10 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question Is there no hierarchy within the category of humans for the Vedic sacrifice? That is, if you're going to sacrifice a human, will any human do? David Slakter ________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of George Thompson [gthomgt at GMAIL.COM] Sent: 23 August 2011 14:01 To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] taxonomy question Dear List Maybe nobody noticed my mistake, or maybe many of you did, but you decided to forgive me. In any case, the Vedic hierarchy of sacrificial victims is not: 5. sheep 4. goat 3. cattle 2. horse 1. human It is instead: 5. goat 4. sheep 3. cattle 2. horse 1. human I make this mistake all the time. It is clear that in my urban world the value of the goat and the sheep is negligible. But this is not true of the Vedic clans. Best, George !SIG:4e559f0f52546481060558! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tkssouthasia at GMAIL.COM Mon Aug 29 22:58:20 2011 From: tkssouthasia at GMAIL.COM (tony stewart) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 11 17:58:20 -0500 Subject: Job Announcement: South and/or Southeast Asian Buddhist Studies Message-ID: <161227093699.23782.11053856999253106039.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2073 Lines: 73 Dear Colleagues: Please circulate the following announcement to interested parties. We apologize for the inevitable cross-listings (e.g., Indology, H-Buddhism, H-Asia, RISA-L, and so forth). Thanks, Tony tony.k.stewart at vanderbilt.edu Vanderbilt University Buddhist Traditions of South and/or Southeast Asia The Department of Religious Studies at Vanderbilt University seeks to make an appointment in Buddhist Traditions of South and/or Southeast Asia. Rank is Assistant Professor tenure-track. Area of specialization, historical period, and methodological approach are open. Command of appropriate languages commensurate to an advanced research agenda will be required (e.g., Sanskrit, Pali, Tibetan, Sinhala, Vietnamese, Thai, Burmese, Lao or other vernacular). The successful candidate should expect to teach both introductory and advanced classes in the field; normal course load is two courses per semester (four per year). Qualified candidates should be prepared to mentor graduate students and teach advanced courses in the methodologies appropriate to the study of religion in the Graduate Department of Religion?s field of Historical and Critical Theories of Religion (HACTOR). PhD must be in-hand by the beginning of Fall 2012 term. Application deadline is 05 October 2011 with review to begin immediately. Please send a letter of application, research statement, and assessment of teaching (if available), transcripts, and three letters of recommendation (or standard university graduate student placement dossier) to: Tony K. Stewart, Chair Department of Religious Studies ATT: Buddhist Traditions Search Committee Vanderbilt University VU Box #351585 [301 Garland Hall] 2301 Vanderbilt Place Nashville, TN 37235-1585 USA Vanderbilt is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer. Women and under-represented minorities are encouraged to apply. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU Tue Aug 30 22:57:37 2011 From: tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU (Gary Tubb) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 11 17:57:37 -0500 Subject: Telugu position in Chicago In-Reply-To: <4E5D6933.6020801@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227093703.23782.6952388923273526478.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2302 Lines: 70 Dear Colleagues, Please circulate the job posting appended below, wherever it may meet with interest. Yours, Gary. Gary Tubb, Professor and Chair Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations The University of Chicago [appended announcement begins:] LECTURER IN TELUGU The Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations, University of Chicago, invites applications for a full-time Lecturer in Telugu. Appointment will be for one year, with possible renewal dependent upon funding and satisfactory review. The appointment is expected to begin Autumn 2011. Position and renewal are contingent upon budgetary approval. The Lecturer will teach a minimum of six courses per year, distributed over autumn, winter, and spring quarters. Courses will be regular language courses in modern spoken and written Telugu within the two levels of first-year and second-year Telugu. Language lecturers are also expected to work one-on-one with advanced students as the need arises as well as offer occasional Reading Courses to individual students. Familiarity with Classical Telugu is desirable. The Lecturer will take part in workshops, departmental meetings, colloquia, and informal events directed toward graduate training and development. M.A. or Ph.D. preferred in a relevant Humanities discipline. Application materials should be submitted as follows: (1) Cover letter and CV must be uploaded to the Academic Careers Opportunities website at (http://tinyurl.com/3o9sc43) Requisition 00979 (2) Two letters of support must be emailed to: salcsearches at lists.uchicago.edu with subject heading "Telugu Search" (3) Signed, hard-copy letters of support should be mailed to: Telugu Search South Asian Languages and Civilizations University of Chicago 1130 E 59th Street Chicago IL 60637 U.S.A For full consideration electronic materials should be submitted by October 1, 2011. Review of applications will commence October 3, 2011, and will continue until position is filled. All materials, both electronic and hard copy must arrive by October 18, 2011. ** [:appended announcement ends] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From buescher at HUM.KU.DK Wed Aug 31 17:49:38 2011 From: buescher at HUM.KU.DK (Hartmut Buescher) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 11 19:49:38 +0200 Subject: Catalogue of Sanskrit Manuscripts Message-ID: <161227093705.23782.16270527105766223251.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 622 Lines: 19 Dear colleagues, it is a pleasure to inform you that, with a short delay, my Catalogue of Sanskrit Manuscripts: Early Acquisitions and the Nepal Collection has now appeared as volume 7 in the series Catalogue of Oriental Manuscripts, Xylographs, etc. in Danish Collections (COMDC) (http://www.niaspress.dk/books/catalogue-sanskrit-manuscripts). It describes three of the Royal Library's (http://www.kb.dk/en/index.html) Sanskrit collections; these were concisely characterized in the Spring '11 issue of the IIAS Newsletter, No. 56, p. 40 (http://issuu.com/iias/docs/iias_nl_56). Kind regards, Hartmut Buescher From w.t.douglas at ABDN.AC.UK Thu Dec 1 05:11:10 2011 From: w.t.douglas at ABDN.AC.UK (Tuladhar-douglas, Dr William B.) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 11 05:11:10 +0000 Subject: CfP: Taste - panel at ASA Delhi, 3-6 April 2012 Message-ID: <161227094617.23782.17677565305242870397.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1809 Lines: 32 Gentlefolk, (apologies for any cross-posting) Here is the call for papers for a panel on ?taste?. The panel format is intimate ? all presenters will also be respondents in a round-robin. Please circulate this call to any colleagues you think might be interested. Paper proposals should be submitted through the ASA website at http://www.nomadit.co.uk/asa/asa2012/panels.php5?PanelID=1137 . "Traditional Indic medical texts draw careful links between specific savours, such as bitter or salty, and the efficacy of foods or medicines. Yet the perception of taste is a product of cultural training- the number and character of taste categories varies widely from culture to culture. A key Sanskrit term for intense aesthetic experience- rasa- refers both to the immediacy of gustatory experience and the discipline of exceptional discrimination. Nowhere is this more apparent than among gustatory elites such as sommeliers or the wholesalers of medical plants, whose tongues decide the worth of substances upon which less sensitive lives and livelihoods depend. In this panel we invite contributions that link the disciplining of the taste buds, aesthetic evaluation of ingested substances, and the power that comes from expertise." Many thanks, -WBTD. - - -- --- ----- -------- ------------- Will Tuladhar-Douglas Anthropology of Environments and Religions Wellcome Trust Research Fellow, Nepal, 2011-12. Visiting Scientist, ICIMOD SL/PR group. tending.to/garden The University of Aberdeen is a charity registered in Scotland, No SC013683. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA Thu Dec 1 13:34:13 2011 From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 11 08:34:13 -0500 Subject: Hard to find item In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094632.23782.10758333145217837140.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1758 Lines: 71 Your student probably means this one (available at Robarts Library University of Toronto): Buddhiyoga of the G?t? and other essays / Anirvan. New Delhi : Biblia Impex, 1983. Book ? IN ? BL1212.76 .A55 1983 UTL at Downsview May be requested ? -- Stella Sandahl ssandahl at sympatico.ca On 1-Dec-11, at 5:43 AM, James Hegarty wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > A student of mine that is looking at the concept of buddhi in a > variety of contexts is having difficulty in obtaining the following > publication. Even inter-library loan has let him down. The > reference is (though it looks a little odd, I give it as he sent it > to me): > > Anirvan, Buddhyoga of the Gita and other Essays. New Delhi: Biblio > Impex Privat 1981. > > Can anyone help? > > With Thanks and Best Wishes, > > James Hegarty > Cardiff University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: book.gif Type: image/gif Size: 576 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: shelfBrowse.gif Type: image/gif Size: 1087 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2153 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Thu Dec 1 10:43:42 2011 From: hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (James Hegarty) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 11 10:43:42 +0000 Subject: Hard to find item Message-ID: <161227094619.23782.13707283706875742153.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 637 Lines: 21 Dear Colleagues, A student of mine that is looking at the concept of buddhi in a variety of contexts is having difficulty in obtaining the following publication. Even inter-library loan has let him down. The reference is (though it looks a little odd, I give it as he sent it to me): Anirvan, Buddhyoga of the Gita and other Essays. New Delhi: Biblio Impex Privat 1981. Can anyone help? With Thanks and Best Wishes, James Hegarty Cardiff University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Thu Dec 1 10:41:08 2011 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 11 11:41:08 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_OUP_denies_=E2=80=98censorship'?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094626.23782.14797819272364107295.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7868 Lines: 196 Dear Dominik, as all the 453 signatories to the letter know, "Le combat continue"! See also the report: "http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article2675513.ece" Cheers -- Jean-Luc *********************************** The Hindu LONDON, December 1, 2011 Retract apology over Ramanujan essay, academics tell OUP Hasan Suroor Academics protesting against the Oxford University Press' (OUP) decision to stop publication and sale of A.K. Ramanujan's essay Three Hundred Ramayanas are insisting that it must ?retract? the apology it reportedly issued in court to a right-wing cultural group which had demanded a ban on the essay claiming that it hurt Hindu sensitivities. Sheldon Pollock, the noted American Indologist leading the protest, said on Wednesday that the OUP had ?besmirched Ramanujan's reputation by apologising in court to those who sought to ban his work.? He also demanded ?assured availability? of Ramanujan's Collected Essays failing which the OUP must release all rights to the book, along with the release of the Indian rights to Paula Richman's Many Ramayanas in which the controversial essay appears. ?We expect a public retraction of the apology OUP India made in court. We ask that OUP India demonstrate its commitment to freedom of expression by assuring and publicly announcing the unrestricted availability of The Collected Essays of A.K. Ramanujan. And, if it is unwilling to offer that assurance, we demand that it relinquish all rights to Ramanujan's book, along with the Indian rights to Richman's Many Ramayanas and return them to the original copyright holders so that a consortium of other Indian presses may reprint the books, as they are prepared to do,? said Professor Pollock, Ransford Professor of Sanskrit and Indian Studies, Columbia University, in a letter to Nigel Portwood, chief executive of OUP, UK. The letter was also signed by Vinay Dharwadker, Professor, Department of Languages and Cultures of Asia, University of Wisconsin-Madison, and General Editor of The Collected Essays of A.K. Ramanujan. It was in response to Mr. Portwood's claim, in his reply to a previous letter from Professor Pollock and his colleagues, that the decision to discontinue the sale of the essay was based purely on ?commercial considerations? and not taken under pressure from right-wing protesters. Professors Pollock and Dharwadker said that Mr. Portwood had ?avoided? the principal issues raised in their previous missive. ?According to the reports we have received, OUP India's lawyers made it clear in court that they would not reprint the essay. Furthermore, OUP India gave an undertaking to the Delhi University Vice-Chancellor, who asked for one in view of the court case, that they would never reprint the essay,? they said, demanding that OUP India must immediately issue a full and accurate summary of the court case, its agreement with the plaintiff, and its undertaking with the previous or current administration of Delhi University which dropped the essay from its syllabus following protests from some groups. Meanwhile, OUP Delhi, in a statement, insisted that it ?does not apologise and never has apologised for publishing the essay.? ?That is wholly consistent with a statement in 2008 legal proceedings that OUP India ?greatly respects the plurality of Indian culture in all publishing activities and never has any intention to hurt, insult, or offend in any way, any religious community or popular sentiments.' OUP India has for many decades successfully fulfilled its role as a disseminator of the best scholarship, and continues to uphold the highest levels of integrity,? it said. **************************************** On 30/11/2011 11:49, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > A quick check of the OUP India website today does show that Ramanujan's > /Collected Essays/ volume is currently listed as "available for > immediate purchase". See attached image. > Dominik > > -- > Dr Dominik Wujastyk > > > > On 30 November 2011 09:21, Jean-Luc Chevillard > > wrote: > > FYI > > (copied from the MinTamil list) > > "http://groups.google.com/__group/mintamil/browse_thread/__thread/50b6f97b6302e209 > " > > ******************************__************ > > Flash from the UK via Chennai. > > > Retrieved on 30 11 2011 from > > http://www.thehindu.com/__todays-paper/tp-national/__article2673004.ece > > > > 30 11 2011 > > Ramanujan essay row: OUP denies ?censorship' > > HASAN SUROOR > > > ?Commercial considerations' cited for not publishing Three Hundred > Ramayanas > > The Oxford University Press (OUP) on Tuesday said that its decision > to discontinue publishing and selling A.K. Ramanujan's essay, ?Three > Hundred Ramayanas,' was based on ?commercial considerations.? It > denied acting under pressure from right-wing protesters who had > claimed that the essay hurt Hindu sensitivities. > > Nigel Portwood, chief executive of OUP UK, also denied that it had > stopped printing altogether Ramanujan's Collected Essays , in which > ?300 Ramayanas' appears, but said the book was available only in its > ?short-run print programme because there was not a sufficient number > of back orders to justify a normal reprint.? > > Reply to letter > > Replying to a letter from American Indologist Sheldon Pollock and > several other leading academics, including Paula Richman in whose > volume the essay appears, Mr. Portwood rejected allegations of > censorship. He insisted that OUP took its ?role as a disseminator of > the best scholarship in India? seriously. > > ?The two Ramanujan books at the centre of the current debate ? Many > Ramayanas and The Collected Essays of A.K. Ramanujan ? have not been > removed from the market in India through acts of censorship. Prior > to 2008, both works had been showing minimal sales triggering the > decision not to reprint either title. As I am sure you appreciate, > commercial considerations are one of several factors in publishing > decisions.? > > About the ?confusion? over the availability of The Collected Essays > , Mr. Portwood said the book was out of stock from 2008 but OUP > continued to collect a small number of back orders on its internal > systems. > > ?In early September 2011, we put The Collected Essays into our > short-run print programme because there was not a sufficient number > of back orders to justify a normal reprint, and it has been listed > as available on the OUP India website ever since ? some weeks before > the current controversy began,? he said. > > In their letter, Prof. Pollock and co-signatories had conveyed their > ?shock and dismay? at OUP India's action which, they said, was > compounded by its abject apology in court to a group which had > claimed that the essay hurt Hindu sensitivities. They urged the OUP > to withdraw its court apology, publicly state that it was committed > to the right of scholars to publish their work without fear of > suppression or censorship, and demonstrate this commitment by > reprinting Ramanujan's The Collected Essays . > > > > OUP denies acting under pressure from right-wing protesters > > > ? Collected Essays available only in its short-run print programme? > > > Retrieved on 30 11 2011 > fromhttp://www.thehindu.com/__todays-paper/tp-national/__article2673004.ece > > > From james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM Thu Dec 1 11:08:47 2011 From: james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM (James Hartzell) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 11 12:08:47 +0100 Subject: Hard to find item In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094621.23782.15917257762857286740.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 850 Lines: 40 Hi James Here's a link to the book at Samata Books http://www.samatabooks.com/authors/anirvan cheers On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:43 AM, James Hegarty wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > A student of mine that is looking at the concept of buddhi in a variety of > contexts is having difficulty in obtaining the following publication. Even > inter-library loan has let him down. The reference is (though it looks a > little odd, I give it as he sent it to me): > > Anirvan, Buddhyoga of the Gita and other Essays. New Delhi: Biblio Impex > Privat 1981. > > Can anyone help? > > With Thanks and Best Wishes, > > James Hegarty > Cardiff University -- James Hartzell Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) University of Trento via delle Regole 101 38123 Mattarello, TN, Italy Tel: +39 0461 28 3660 Cell: +39 377 452 6292 From adheesh1 at GMAIL.COM Thu Dec 1 11:09:25 2011 From: adheesh1 at GMAIL.COM (Adheesh Sathaye) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 11 16:39:25 +0530 Subject: Hard to find item In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094624.23782.11953456915818386409.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 981 Lines: 42 Hello James, It seems that he's missing an "i" in the title which might account for the difficulty. It should be "Buddhiyoga of the Gita..." a search on worldcat reveals the following: http://www.worldcat.org/title/buddhiyoga-of-the-gita-and-other-essays/oclc/670102526?referer=br&ht=edition Looks like it's available in the BL. good luck! cheers, Adheesh On Dec 1, 2011, at 4:13 PM, James Hegarty wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > A student of mine that is looking at the concept of buddhi in a variety of contexts is having difficulty in obtaining the following publication. Even inter-library loan has let him down. The reference is (though it looks a little odd, I give it as he sent it to me): > > Anirvan, Buddhyoga of the Gita and other Essays. New Delhi: Biblio Impex Privat 1981. > > Can anyone help? > > With Thanks and Best Wishes, > > James Hegarty > Cardiff University ---- Adheesh Sathaye Department of Asian Studies University of British Columbia From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Thu Dec 1 13:08:47 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 11 18:38:47 +0530 Subject: Anirvan's essay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094629.23782.6570325413772071117.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1022 Lines: 30 If this Anirvan is the same as the recluse of Calcutta who died in the eighties, Professor Gauri Dharmapal might be contacted. She has all the publications of Anirvan with her family. Best DB ________________________________ From: James Hegarty To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2011 4:13 PM Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hard to find item Dear Colleagues, A student of mine that is looking at the concept of buddhi in a variety of contexts is having difficulty in obtaining the following publication. Even inter-library loan has let him down. The reference is (though it looks a little odd, I give it as he sent it to me): Anirvan, Buddhyoga of the Gita and other Essays. New Delhi: Biblio Impex Privat 1981. Can anyone help? With Thanks and Best Wishes, James Hegarty Cardiff University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Sat Dec 3 16:28:13 2011 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Sat, 03 Dec 11 10:28:13 -0600 Subject: Fwd: GC CUNY job Message-ID: <161227094636.23782.3455673851197321448.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2232 Lines: 53 Begin forwarded message: > From: Manu Bhagavan > Subject: GC CUNY job > Date: December 3, 2011 9:54:04 AM CST > To: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu > Reply-To: manu.bhagavan at hunter.cuny.edu > > Dear Patrick: > > The History program at the CUNY Grad Center is running a senior search for a > historian of empire and/or religion. Empire is broadly defined, but is post- > 1500. The ad is below. Could you please encourage terrific people to apply or to > be nominated? (I am on the committee). Thanks, Manu > > > The Ph.D. Program in History at the Graduate Center, the City University of New > York, invites applications for a faculty position at the rank of advanced associate > or full professor. Applicants should have expertise demonstrated by a > distinguished record of research and publication in one of two areas: The History > of Empire, from 1500 to the present, with a preference for European, including > Ottoman, empires; or the history of religion from the middle ages to the present. > We seek an internationally recognized scholar whose work is theoretically > informed and methodologically innovative. The appointment will begin in Fall > 2012. A particularly strong candidate may be nominated as a Distinguished > Professor. To apply, please send a letter of application, curriculum vitae, and the > names/addresses/email addresses for at least three references to: > History at gc.cuny.edu with the subject line ?Faculty Search" or to Ph.D. Program in > History, 365 Fifth Avenue, The Graduate Center, CUNY, New York, NY 10016. > We also welcome nominations. Review of applications will begin on January 16, > 2012. > EO/AA/IRACA/ADA > _________________________________ > Manu Bhagavan > Associate Professor > Department of History > Hunter College and the Graduate Center > The City University of New York > 695 Park Ave. > New York, NY 10021 > > Ph: 212-772-5482 > Fax: 212-772-5545 > Email: manu.bhagavan at hunter.cuny.edu > URL: http://urban.hunter.cuny.edu/~mbhagava -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shatley at ALCOR.CONCORDIA.CA Sun Dec 4 16:30:28 2011 From: shatley at ALCOR.CONCORDIA.CA (Shaman Hatley) Date: Sun, 04 Dec 11 11:30:28 -0500 Subject: Position in South Asian religions Message-ID: <161227094647.23782.18104610849305593671.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2621 Lines: 66 Dear colleagues, I would like to draw your attention to the following limited-term position in my Department at Concordia University, in the area of Hinduism and South Asian religions. Your help in circulating this to possible candidates would be much appreciated. With best wishes, Shaman --- Dr. Shaman Hatley Concordia University Department of Religion, FA-101 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd West Montr?al Qc, H3G 1M8 Canada *** Limited Term Appointment CONCORDIA UNIVERSITY Faculty of Arts and Science The Department of Religion of Concordia University invites applications for a limited-term appointment in the area of Hinduism and South Asian religions. Candidates should have broad familiarity with classical and modern Hindu traditions, the ability to teach Buddhism, and relevant language proficiencies. The candidate should hold a doctorate or be close to its completion, and have experience and skill in teaching. Familiarity with the comparative study of religions will be considered an asset. Applications should consist of a cover letter, a current curriculum vitae, a statement of teaching philosophy/interests, and evidence of teaching effectiveness. Candidates should arrange for three letters of reference to be sent directly to: Dr. Lorenzo DiTommaso, Chair, Department of Religion Concordia University 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. Montreal, Quebec H3G 1M8 L.DiTommaso at concordia.ca http://religion.concordia.ca/ This position is subject to budgetary approval and department/unit need. Individuals holding limited-term appointments may be reappointed, given continued funding and need, as well as satisfactory job performance. Together, initial appointments and subsequent reappointments may not exceed 36 months or a span of three consecutive years. They are normally at the rank of Lecturer or Assistant Professor, beginning August 15, 2012 and ending May 31, 2013. Successful candidates will normally be expected to teach three courses per semester. All inquiries should be directed to Dr. DiTommaso at L.DiTommaso at concordia.ca. Review of applications will begin as they are received and will continue until the required positions have been filled. All applications should reach departments no later than March 1, 2012. All qualified candidates are encouraged to apply; however, Canadian citizens and permanent residents of Canada will be given priority. Concordia University is committed to employment equity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM Sun Dec 4 15:02:41 2011 From: mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM (alakendu das) Date: Sun, 04 Dec 11 15:02:41 +0000 Subject: innovating the decimal system Message-ID: <161227094639.23782.2218050127171607939.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1344 Lines: 20 To all listed Members and scholars in Indology, In course of my earnest study of Indology, ,I learnt that India of the Rig Vedic age was the first to innovate decimal system or place-value principle in Mathematics. Taitteriya Upanishads(one of the eleven Upanishads)have references of decimal system.In the "Shukla" version of Yajurveda , we find Medhatithi's verse in the Vajrasaneyi Samhita which speaks of the various powers of ten.Rigveda has evidences of writing 720 as "sapta satati vimsatih" or 1110 as "sahasrani sata dasha" Thus concepts like place -value , powers of ten dawned upon the Indians of the Rig Vedic age. while the romans could use upto 10 to the power 3 , and the greeks 10 to the power 4, it was quiet natural for the Rig vedic India to imagine 10 to the power 14. Rig vedic age existed between 1500 B.C.and 500 B.C. Can anyone enlighten me whether any other civilisation or age pre-dated the Rig Vedic India in innovating the Decimal system ? Thanking You ALAKENDU DAS mailmealakendudas at redifmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM Sun Dec 4 15:11:17 2011 From: mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM (alakendu das) Date: Sun, 04 Dec 11 15:11:17 +0000 Subject: Fw: [INDOLOGY] innovating the decimal system Message-ID: <161227094643.23782.1124048286503486758.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 612 Lines: 21 Note: Forwarded message attached -- Original Message -- From: alakendu das mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] innovating the decimal system -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: unknown sender Subject: no subject Date: no date Size: 9104 URL: From jmdelire at ULB.AC.BE Sun Dec 4 19:19:19 2011 From: jmdelire at ULB.AC.BE (Jean-Michel Delire) Date: Sun, 04 Dec 11 20:19:19 +0100 Subject: innovating the decimal system Message-ID: <161227094654.23782.4190703889810784252.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2511 Lines: 27 Dear member(s), I certainly agree that India was the first place where the decimal enunciation of numbers went so far as to give names to long series of powers of ten But, I would add the following remarks : 1? enunciation does not necessarily mean notation, so that one is still far away from a positional decimal system when one says "sahasrani sata dasha" instead of writing 1110; actually, in this example, the 1's are not enunciated and it is the names of the powers of ten that specify the value, not the position, and 2? it is only when the "1's" are enunciated, the "0" added and the names of the powers of ten dropped that we have a real positional decimal enunciation like 'one one one zero'. This happened in India in the first centuries AD, especially in the astronomical works named siddhantas, which enunciated 304, by instance, as tri sunya catur or as loka kha veda. By so doing, they replaced the numerals by number-words, so useful for metric (and thus verbal) facility, reminiscent of the numerals. And, even so, one cannot really ensure that the system was purely decimal for danta is sometimes used for 32 (and other single words for other two figures numbers). Hoping this helps, J.M.Delire, Lecturer on 'Science and Civilization in India - Sanskrit texts' at the IHEB (University of Brussels) >To all listed Members and scholars in Indology, > > > In course of my earnest study of Indology, ,I learnt that India of the Rig Vedic age was the first to innovate decimal system or place-value principle in Mathematics. Taitteriya Upanishads(one of the eleven Upanishads)have references of decimal system.In the "Shukla" version of Yajurveda , we find Medhatithi's verse in the Vajrasaneyi Samhita which speaks of the various powers of ten.Rigveda has evidences of writing 720 as "sapta satati vimsatih" or 1110 as "sahasrani sata dasha" Thus concepts like place -value , powers of ten dawned upon the Indians of the Rig Vedic age. while the romans could use upto 10 to the power 3 , and the greeks 10 to the power 4, it was quiet natural for the Rig vedic India to imagine 10 to the power 14. > Rig vedic age existed between 1500 B.C.and 500 B.C. > Can anyone enlighten me whether any other civilisation or age pre-dated the Rig Vedic India in innovating the Decimal system ? > > Thanking You > ALAKENDU DAS > mailmealakendudas at redifmail.com > > > > > From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Sun Dec 4 16:54:06 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sun, 04 Dec 11 22:24:06 +0530 Subject: Fw: [INDOLOGY] innovating the decimal system In-Reply-To: <1323011019.S.11750.3111.F.H.TmFsYWtlbmR1IGRhcwBbSU5ET0xPR1ldIGlubm92YXRpbmcgdGhlIGRlY2ltYWwgc3lzdGVt.f6-145-71.old.1323011463.20829@webmail.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: <161227094650.23782.7637875095428976892.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3056 Lines: 62 4 12 11 Dear Friend, The file format is not known. So the attachment could not be opened. Still I write the following on the basis of the statement in the letter. Whether a decimal system is in place can be tested. Without the system of increment of the place value (coefficient x digit) by multiples of 10 (ap of the log) a numerical system cannot be called decimal in spite of the importance given to the number 10 in it. In the Roman numeral system too X is important but, since place value has no part to play in it, the Roman numerals do not form a decimal system. There is another criterion without which it cannot work, namely, the non-positive, non-negative digit that is 0 that is to be used in the number 10. The said system is first found in the ?ryabha??yam which, however, has ak?aras for digits. But the digits are the objects to be signified. One may conclude that by 499 AD the decimal system existed in India. One has to prove that place value with the coefficient of the digit increasing from 100 onward with the exponent increasing in ap of the series 0,1,2,3,4 etc exists in the said texts to confirm that their system is decimal. I request forgiveness for the tedious character of the letter. A more sprightly form is welcome. Best DB ________________________________ From: alakendu das To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2011 8:41 PM Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fw: [INDOLOGY] innovating the decimal system Note: Forwarded message attached -- Original Message -- From: alakendu das mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] innovating the decimal system Follow?Rediff Deal ho jaye!?to get exciting offers in your city everyday. To all listed Members and scholars in Indology, In course of my earnest study of Indology, ,I learnt that India of the Rig Vedic age was the first to innovate decimal system or place-value principle in Mathematics. Taitteriya Upanishads(one of the eleven Upanishads)have references of decimal system.In the "Shukla" version of Yajurveda , we find Medhatithi's verse in the Vajrasaneyi Samhita which speaks of the various powers of ten.Rigveda has evidences of writing 720 as "sapta satati vimsatih" or 1110 as "sahasrani sata dasha" Thus concepts like place -value , powers of ten dawned upon the Indians of the Rig Vedic age. while the romans could use upto 10 to the power 3 , and the greeks 10 to the power 4, it was quiet natural for the Rig vedic India to imagine 10 to the power 14. Rig vedic age existed between 1500 B.C.and 500 B.C. Can anyone enlighten me whether any other civilisation or age pre-dated the Rig Vedic India in innovating the Decimal system ? Thanking You ALAKENDU DAS mailmealakendudas at redifmail.com Follow?Rediff Deal ho jaye!?to get exciting offers in your city everyday. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Dec 5 03:22:31 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 11 04:22:31 +0100 Subject: innovating the decimal system In-Reply-To: <260664edbc7b7d8a55@wm-srv.ulb.ac.be> Message-ID: <161227094656.23782.8696835844192809652.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4071 Lines: 95 In 1998, I wrote, about zero: Three key elements -- a decimal base, place-value, and zero (I abbreviate > this to "DPZ") -- occurred separately at earlier times both in India > and in other parts of the ancient world. In particular, the Babylonians > were using a place-value system, with a space for the null value, in the > second millennium BC, but their base for counting was sixty, not ten. By > the time of Alexander the Great, they were even using a special symbol for > this null value. From perhaps as early as the third century AD the Mayans > also used place-value and zero, but with the base twenty. But it does > indeed seem to have been the Indians who first combined these key elements > together to form the basis of the arithmetic system that has come down to > the modern world. > The full text is here: http://cikitsa.blogspot.com/2010/04/origins-of-zero.html -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies, University of Vienna, Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 1090 Vienna Austria Project | home page| PGP | Free Dropbox account On 4 December 2011 20:19, Jean-Michel Delire wrote: > Dear member(s), > > I certainly agree that India was the first place where the decimal > enunciation of numbers went so far as to give names to long series of > powers of ten But, I would add the following remarks : 1? enunciation does > not necessarily mean notation, so that one is still far away from a > positional decimal system when one says "sahasrani sata dasha" instead of > writing 1110; actually, in this example, the 1's are not enunciated and it > is the names of the powers of ten that specify the value, not the position, > and 2? it is only when the "1's" are enunciated, the "0" added and the > names of the powers of ten dropped that we have a real positional decimal > enunciation like 'one one one zero'. This happened in India in the first > centuries AD, especially in the astronomical works named siddhantas, which > enunciated 304, by instance, as tri sunya catur or as loka kha veda. By so > doing, they replaced the numerals by number-words, so useful for metric > (and thus verbal) facility, reminiscent of the numerals. And, even so, one > cannot really ensure that the system was purely decimal for danta is > sometimes used for 32 (and other single words for other two figures > numbers). > > Hoping this helps, > > J.M.Delire, > Lecturer on 'Science and Civilization in India - Sanskrit texts' at the > IHEB (University of Brussels) > > >To all listed Members and scholars in Indology, > > > > > > In course of my earnest study of Indology, ,I learnt that India of the > Rig Vedic age was the first to innovate decimal system or place-value > principle in Mathematics. Taitteriya Upanishads(one of the eleven > Upanishads)have references of decimal system.In the "Shukla" version of > Yajurveda , we find Medhatithi's verse in the Vajrasaneyi Samhita which > speaks of the various powers of ten.Rigveda has evidences of writing 720 as > "sapta satati vimsatih" or 1110 as "sahasrani sata dasha" Thus concepts > like place -value , powers of ten dawned upon the Indians of the Rig Vedic > age. while the romans could use upto 10 to the power 3 , and the greeks 10 > to the power 4, it was quiet natural for the Rig vedic India to imagine 10 > to the power 14. > > Rig vedic age existed > between 1500 B.C.and 500 B.C. > > Can anyone enlighten me whether any other > civilisation or age pre-dated the Rig Vedic India in innovating the > Decimal system ? > > > > Thanking You > > ALAKENDU DAS > > mailmealakendudas at redifmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Mon Dec 5 07:36:19 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 11 13:06:19 +0530 Subject: The decimal system Message-ID: <161227094660.23782.6319817181474786259.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 806 Lines: 16 The Babylonian usage was mentioned by Sir Gordon Childe, in Man the unknown or, may be, in What happened in history. I do not exactly remember after so many years. Sir Gordon did not much elaborate. But he understood the later developments as rediscovery. When I read that the source was not available to me. Later it seemed to me as sporadic and, what F. Engels (Anti-D?hring) would term in such context, ?unconnected?. The Indian development, on the other hand, had ramifications as it left its impression in the further history of Mathematics through the Arabs. These were wrongly understood by Engels as unconnected. Best DB -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Mon Dec 5 09:31:44 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 11 15:01:44 +0530 Subject: Fw: [INDOLOGY] The decimal system Message-ID: <161227094663.23782.14673969935034656293.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1346 Lines: 29 I express regret and tender unqualified apology for wrongly mentioning V. Gordon Childe's famous work as Man the unknown instead of? as Man makes himself. In fact I read Alexis Carrel and V. Gordon Childe almost in succession so that such errors have occurred frequently. Ideologically the two intellectuals were poles apart. Best DB ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Dipak Bhattacharya To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Monday, 5 December 2011 1:06 PM Subject: [INDOLOGY] The decimal system The Babylonian usage was mentioned by Sir Gordon Childe, in Man the unknown or, may be, in What happened in history. I do not exactly remember after so many years. Sir Gordon did not much elaborate. But he understood the later developments as rediscovery. When I read that the source was not available to me. Later it seemed to me as sporadic and, what F. Engels (Anti-D?hring) would term in such context, ?unconnected?. The Indian development, on the other hand, had ramifications as it left its impression in the further history of Mathematics through the Arabs. These were wrongly understood by Engels as unconnected. Best DB -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU Mon Dec 5 16:08:06 2011 From: slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU (Lindquist, Steven) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 11 16:08:06 +0000 Subject: FW: Access All Areas - Routledge In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094669.23782.4987021762229470459.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4369 Lines: 87 FYI. STEVEN LINDQUIST, PH.D. DIRECTOR OF ASIAN STUDIES ASSISTANT PROFESSOR _____________ Department of Religious Studies Southern Methodist University PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275 http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui From: Routledge Journals > Reply-To: Routledge Journals > Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 10:05:06 -0500 To: sel > Subject: Access All Areas We are pleased to provide you with information on products and services that might be of interest to you. Want to keep receiving these valuable messages in your inbox? Click here to find out how. 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Scientific Direct 1500 Spring Garden Street 4th Fl Philadelphia, PA 19130 USA [http://sci.scientific-direct.net/o/440d9a14/3e54f11a/1/H/1003998.gif] From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Dec 5 15:37:10 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 11 16:37:10 +0100 Subject: Fw: [INDOLOGY] The decimal system In-Reply-To: <1323077504.66245.YahooMailNeo@web94811.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227094666.23782.14729204410661132827.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1071 Lines: 21 There is a substantial specialist literature on the history of numerals, from Smith and Karpinski(1911) and Florian Cajori(1929) through to Georges Ifrah, Victor Katz and Charles Burnett ( 2006 ). Some of this has been mentioned in this forum before, I believe. It would be best to refer to that literature before posting further notes on the topic. The most pertinent parts of this literature for India have been cited and discussed by Kim Plofker in her 2009 book Mathematics in India, especially chapter 3. Best, -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Tue Dec 6 02:56:19 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 11 08:26:19 +0530 Subject: Fw: [INDOLOGY] The decimal system In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094677.23782.7035112569430281724.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1520 Lines: 29 There are other works too that are dependable for the general outline. Apart from Gordon Childe (only for the ancient world), the Penguin collection The Treasury of Mathematics (1965, 1968) introductories: H. Midonick and revision: Minetta and Reginald Vesselo and the Indian collection under Debiprasad Chattopadhyay are not bad for general outline ? the latter for the Indian development. The historical sketches that came to my notice are not always free from inaccuracies but, so far as they pertain to non-essential detail, the sketches are good for the general outline. Best DB ________________________________ From: Dominik Wujastyk To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Monday, 5 December 2011 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fw: [INDOLOGY] The decimal system There is a substantial specialist literature on the history of numerals, from Smith and Karpinski (1911) and Florian Cajori (1929) through to Georges Ifrah, Victor Katz and Charles Burnett (2006).? Some of this has been mentioned in this forum before, I believe.? It would be best to refer to that literature before posting further notes on the topic.? The most pertinent parts of this literature for India have been cited and discussed by Kim Plofker in her 2009 book Mathematics in India, especially chapter 3. Best, -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james_fitzgerald at BROWN.EDU Wed Dec 7 14:06:58 2011 From: james_fitzgerald at BROWN.EDU (Fitzgerald, James) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 11 09:06:58 -0500 Subject: Sanskrit Lecturer Position at Brown Message-ID: <161227094683.23782.15085519827265507155.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1439 Lines: 37 Dear colleagues, Please circulate the following job notice as widely as possible and bring it to the attention of any qualified persons of whom you are aware. Many thanks, Jim Fitzgerald ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Sanskrit Lecturer: The Department of Classics of Brown University seeks qualified applicants for a three year, full time position as Lecturer in Sanskrit. Duties are teaching first and second year Sanskrit every semester and one further advanced Sanskrit or undergraduate lecture course per semester, in alignment with one?s expertise. Applicants should have in hand a Ph.D. in the study of Sanskrit Language and Literature, or have completed all requirements for the Ph.D. in such study, except the writing of the dissertation. Review of applications will begin February 15, 2012; preliminary interviews will take place at the American Oriental Society meeting in Boston, March 16-19. Send letter of application and CV to Chair, Sanskrit Search Committee, Box 1856, Department of Classics, Brown University, 48 College Street, Providence, Rhode Island, 02912. Arrange to have three letters of recommendation sent to the same address. Brown is an EEO/AA employer. Minorities and women are encouraged to apply. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From westerhoff at CANTAB.NET Wed Dec 7 09:55:35 2011 From: westerhoff at CANTAB.NET (Jan Westerhoff) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 11 09:55:35 +0000 Subject: Identity of Sam.rddha / 'byor ldan Message-ID: <161227094681.23782.9301008701374270749.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 824 Lines: 35 Dear Colleagues, Naagaarjuna's Vaidalyaprakara.na contains a list of Ancient Indian scholars and sages including one 'byor ldan (Sam.rddha?). The only reference to this name I could find is in Vettam Mani: Puraa.nic Encyclopaedia, Motilal Banarsidass, Delhi, 1979: 680: "Sam.rddha: A naaga (serpent) born in the family of Dh.rtaraa.s.tra. The serpent was burnt to death in the sacrificial fire of the serpent sacrifice of Janamejaya." Given the other members of the list it seems likely that this not the intended referent, however. Any hints on the identity of this character would be much appreciated. Regards Jan Westerhoff *************************** Dr Dr JC Westerhoff Department of Philosophy University of Durham 50 Old Elvet Durham DH1 3HN United Kingdom www.janwesterhoff.net westerhoff at cantab.net From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Dec 9 13:26:51 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 09 Dec 11 14:26:51 +0100 Subject: "Must We Pay for Sanskrit?" Message-ID: <161227094687.23782.17743068982980108425.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1691 Lines: 48 Article by Michael Wood in the current issue of the *London Review of Books* : - http://www.lrb.co.uk/v33/n24/michael-wood/must-we-pay-for-sanskrit "*Keith Thomasand Michael Wood spoke at ?Universities under Attack?, a conference sponsored by the ?London Review?, the ?New York Review? and Fritt Ord held on 26 November at King?s College London."* Here is Sir Keith's talk, which does not mention Sanskrit but will be of interest to those who care about British higher education: - *http://www.lrb.co.uk/2011/11/28/keith-thomas/universities-under-attack * The programme of the conference was as follows: - *10 a.m. ?What Kind of University??* *Stefan Collini* (Cambridge), * Tim Horder* (editor, *Oxford Magazine*), *Peter Scott* (Institute of Education). - 11.30 a.m. Coffee - *12 p.m. ?Universities in a Corporate World?. * *Simon Head* (Oxford and New York University), *Howard Hotson* (Oxford), * Michael Wood* (Princeton). - 1.30 p.m. Lunch - *2.30 p.m. ?Academic Labour as a Factor of Production: Hefce and Research Assessment?.* *Matthew Feldman* (Northampton), *Rachel Malik* (formerly of Middlesex University), *Paola Mattei* (Oxford), *Ann Mroz* (editor, *Times Higher Education*). - 4 p.m. Coffee - *4.30 p.m. ?Beyond the White Paper: What Is to Be Done??* *Terence Kealey* (Buckingham), *Keith Thomas* (Oxford), *Susan Wright* (University of Aarhus). DW -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at UW.EDU.PL Sat Dec 10 16:16:37 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Sat, 10 Dec 11 17:16:37 +0100 Subject: Annapurna Message-ID: <161227094691.23782.11205519545402604893.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 317 Lines: 18 Dear List, Annapurna Mt. has four peaks - Annapurna I, II, III, and IV. What are their formal Nepalese names? Would it be (in Nepalese) Annapurna One, Two, Three, Four, or, rather, Annapurna First, Second, Third, Fourth? Nepalese colloquial or Sanskritic numerals? Great thanks in advance, Artur Karp Poland From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Sat Dec 10 16:42:57 2011 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Sat, 10 Dec 11 17:42:57 +0100 Subject: Fwd: Re: [Indo-Eurasia] FW: A.K. Ramanujan's "Three Hundred Ramayanas" and "Collected Essays" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094693.23782.2491616575227197470.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3200 Lines: 108 Dear Liverpool Indology list members, it is not clear to me how many of the 453 signatories of the letter drafted by Sheldon Pollock and sent to OUP have received a message from Rachel Goode (as Joanna Kirpatrick has). [I don't think I received anything] I believe the members of Liverpool Indology who were signatories of the protest letter but have not been directly informed of the recent development will be interested in seeing this, which I forward from the Indo-Eurasian mailing list. Best wishes -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique [CNRS], UMR 7597 (HTL), Universit? Paris-Diderot, Paris) -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Indo-Eurasia] FW: A.K. Ramanujan's "Three Hundred Ramayanas" and "Collected Essays" Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 10:05:07 +0530 From: MANISH MODI [...] Reply-To: Indo-Eurasian_research [...] To: Indo-Eurasian_research [...] Wow! Lovely! Marvelous to see this. Living in India, I had begun to doubt the efficacy of quiet, sensible intelligent protesting. Manish On 10 December 2011 07:35, Jo <[...]> wrote: > Forwarding to the List - > Joanna Kirkpatrick > ***** > From: Group Communications, Oxford University Press > Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 9:06 AM > Subject: A.K. Ramanujan's "Three Hundred Ramayanas" and "Collected Essays" > We are writing to you as scholars who signed a letter addressed to Mr Nigel > Portwood on November 28 2011. We want to make you aware of the statement > attached to this email, which we have written to communicate our position > regarding certain works of scholarship published by OUP India. > Oxford University Press continues to believe that scholarly freedom is > fundamentally important and works to uphold this principle across the > world. > We hope that our recent decision as outlined in our statement will > demonstrate our commitment in this regard. > Rachel Goode > Group Communications Director > Oxford University Press > ***** > OUP Statement: December 9 2011 > We wish to communicate OUP?s position regarding three works of scholarship > published by OUP India. > Given the current concern expressed by members of the scholarly community > about the availability of The Collected Essays and Many Ramayanas we have > taken the decision to reprint both titles immediately and make them > available in India and beyond. We are also making Questioning Ramayanas > available again. All three titles are available to order from the OUP India > website and bookshops across India. > OUP has an important role to play in ensuring that the best scholarship is > disseminated freely, and we hope the reprinting of these three important > works will demonstrate our commitment in this regard. > We also wish to restate the fact that OUP does not and never has > apologised for publishing any work by Ramanujan. Any previous > communications from OUP India that have given the impression of such an > apology have been misinterpreted. We recognise that it is not in the best > interests of the scholarly community of which we are a part for such a > misinterpretation to remain, which is why we are clarifying our position > once again. From jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM Sun Dec 11 10:55:01 2011 From: jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM (girish jha) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 11 02:55:01 -0800 Subject: Gajendragadkar's comm. on Kavyaprakasa Message-ID: <161227094698.23782.9556198186347125314.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 390 Lines: 10 Dear? colleagues, Could anyone let me know of the publication of Prof AB Gajendragadkar's commentary on the Kavyaprakasa from which I could buy a copy of it. Kindest regards, Girish K. Jha Sanskrit,Patna Univ,India -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From w.t.douglas at ABDN.AC.UK Sun Dec 11 03:09:40 2011 From: w.t.douglas at ABDN.AC.UK (Tuladhar-douglas, Dr William B.) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 11 03:09:40 +0000 Subject: Annapurna In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094696.23782.14961483631700126683.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1271 Lines: 42 Artur, Since we were just up there: it's one, two, three and so on in Nepali (ek, dvi, tin..) and it's clearly a translation from Western terminology. I doubt the peaks were referred to in that way before Western surveyors and mountaineers conceptualised them as a single massif, rather than ridges, visible peaks (like Macchapuchre) and traversable passes. There was an indicative conversation one day about Dhaulagiri; one of the party (from around Dhading, between Pokhara and Kathmandu) asked where Dhaulagiri two, three and so forth were, and the person in the party from the Myagdi area said, ?it's just Dhaulagiri, one peak. There's no one two three.? -WBTD. On 10 Dec 2011, at 22:01, Artur Karp wrote: > Dear List, > > Annapurna Mt. has four peaks - Annapurna I, II, III, and IV. What are > their formal Nepalese names? > > Would it be (in Nepalese) Annapurna One, Two, Three, Four, or, rather, > Annapurna First, Second, Third, Fourth? > > Nepalese colloquial or Sanskritic numerals? > > Great thanks in advance, > > Artur Karp > > Poland - - -- --- ----- -------- ------------- Will Tuladhar-Douglas Anthropology of Environment and Religions http://tending.to/garden The University of Aberdeen is a charity registered in Scotland, No SC013683. From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Sun Dec 11 12:45:05 2011 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 11 06:45:05 -0600 Subject: London lodging In-Reply-To: <1323600901.54060.YahooMailClassic@web161701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227094701.23782.10384822832475004023.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 256 Lines: 6 I will be in London for some work in August for about a week. I wonder whether any of you know of accommodation in central London other than hotels that charge you an arm and a leg!! Even accommodation in a university hostel condition. Thanks. Patrick From conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Sun Dec 11 16:19:11 2011 From: conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Frank Conlon) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 11 08:19:11 -0800 Subject: London lodging In-Reply-To: <9EC5EED5-FB70-4FAF-8D18-1E56D7D0405D@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <161227094703.23782.9939942221859108773.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 451 Lines: 15 Hi Patrick, I don't have the address to hand, but the Indian YMCA--not far from the Warren St. Tube Station might be a useful choice. Frank On Sun, 11 Dec 2011, Patrick Olivelle wrote: > I will be in London for some work in August for about a week. I wonder whether any of you know of accommodation in central London other than hotels that charge you an arm and a leg!! Even accommodation in a university hostel condition. Thanks. > > Patrick From rdamron at BERKELEY.EDU Sun Dec 11 20:28:32 2011 From: rdamron at BERKELEY.EDU (Ryan Damron) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 11 12:28:32 -0800 Subject: Somdev Vasudeva's email Message-ID: <161227094712.23782.15374264886329096202.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 575 Lines: 24 Hello All, Could someone please pass on to me (off-list) the current email for Somdev Vasudeva. Now that he has left Columbia University, it appears as if his columbia.edu address has been closed. Thank you Ryan Ryan Damron Graduate Student Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies University of California, Berkeley 7233 Dwinelle Hall Berkeley, CA 94720-2520 rdamron at berkeley.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.darumadera at GMAIL.COM Sun Dec 11 17:40:32 2011 From: john.darumadera at GMAIL.COM (John Huntington) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 11 12:40:32 -0500 Subject: Annapurna In-Reply-To: <8D2219B3-D480-4287-B078-0349C053C1E0@abdn.ac.uk> Message-ID: <161227094706.23782.3357628538270428466.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1280 Lines: 33 Dear Artur, I think we need to step back from specific peaks of the Annapurna range and look at the geography as a whole. The toponym, Annapurna, denotes a goddess of abundance who is often manifest as a overflowing jar (kalash or purnagata) , e.g., the Annapurna temple in Kathmandu. Since the Annapurna range as a whole feeds the Kali-Gandak river (with an abundant flow of water) it is more likely that early nomenclature did not indicate specific peaks but simply the the massive overflowing abundance of the general area as the source of the river. The jar as goddess phenomenon is known inearly scypture and is associated not only with Annapurna, but also Naya Guhyeshvari, Puran Guhyesgvari and (according to the invocational inscription on the Annapurna temple) Yogambara/Jnanesvari at Mhepi-ajima. Thus, it is my opinion the enumerations are a British "map-maker's" Nomenclature and not in any way traditional. I hope this is useful, John -- John C. Huntington, Professor Buddhist Art and Methodologies Department of Art History The Ohio state University john.darumadera at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aprigliano at USP.BR Sun Dec 11 18:29:31 2011 From: aprigliano at USP.BR (Adriano Aprigliano) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 11 16:29:31 -0200 Subject: Devanagari verse and LATEX Message-ID: <161227094709.23782.10886342915926977622.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 669 Lines: 28 Dear list members, I?ve been trying to use the devanagari package together with ledmac and ledpar to produce facing page output and it works fine for prose texts (though I have some doubts on how many text chunks should be handled at each Pages environment) , but when a I try to write verse ---either with the \stanza or {astanza} environments---, it doesn?t work. Could anyone give me a hand on that? Best wishes Adriano Aprigliano Universidade de S?o Paulo S?o Paulo/SP Brasil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Dec 12 02:36:37 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 11 03:36:37 +0100 Subject: Devanagari verse and LATEX In-Reply-To: <000601ccb832$d67acf30$83706d90$@br> Message-ID: <161227094715.23782.14185609654147057335.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2460 Lines: 67 Dear Adriano, A few points: 1. don't use the Devanagari package any more. Move to XeTeX, and then you can just use a font like Sanskrit 2003 (one of my favourites) and type your input in Unicode. You can type Devanagari directly, or you can type using the Velthuis encoding (aasiidraajaa, k.r.s.na.h), or standard scholarly romanisation (IAST). The Velthuis or IAST can be converted automatically into Devanagari by XeTeX itself. Because XeTeX can accept Velthuis-style input, your legacy documents made with the Devanagari package will still be perfectly okay, and you won't have to retype anything. Making this move to XeTeX will greatly simplify your working, and make your documents easier to write, maintain, and process. 2. Your difficulty with the stanza environment in LEDMAC is a TeX problem, not an indological one, and you'll have much more luck with responses if you send your question to the main TeX discussion forum, called comp.text.tex . Questions about LEDMAC are commonly asked and answered there (e.g., here ). 3. There's also a mailing list specifically for XeTeX where people discuss special issues that relate to unusual languages and XeTeX (here). Sanskrit sometimes gets discussed there, LEDMAC less so. 4. The current maintainer of LEDMAC is Ma?eul Rouquetteto whom you can write for help if you think you've found a bug. Best wishes, Dominik Wujastyk On 11 December 2011 19:29, Adriano Aprigliano wrote: > Dear list members,**** > > ** ** > > I?ve been trying to use the devanagari package together with ledmac and > ledpar to produce facing page output and it works fine for prose texts > (though I have some doubts on how many text chunks should be handled at > each Pages environment) , but when a I try to write verse ---either with > the \stanza or {astanza} environments---, it doesn?t work. Could anyone > give me a hand on that?**** > > Best wishes**** > > Adriano Aprigliano**** > > ** ** > > Universidade de S?o Paulo**** > > S?o Paulo/SP**** > > Brasil **** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Dec 12 11:35:13 2011 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 11 05:35:13 -0600 Subject: Annapurna In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094718.23782.2214598014773899160.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 908 Lines: 25 John Huntington raises some valuable points. In many parts of Asia, mountain names more often designate what we would call massifs than they do peaks. Nevertheless, in a few cases in Nepal, the physiognomy of a mountain clearly played a role in its naming: Macchapucchare and Gauri-Shankar are examples. Throughout the Tibetan world, it may be noted, mountains that are identified as "yul lha" -- patron divinities of a region -- typically are the main water-source. This principle operates among Tibetan populations in Nepal, at least to some extent, as well: Numbur Himal is in Tibetan Rdo rje dpal 'bar, the yul lha of the Solu region (and the source of the Junbesi khola). John's comments on Annapurna seem consistent with this. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU Mon Dec 12 15:23:20 2011 From: mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU (Michael Slouber) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 11 10:23:20 -0500 Subject: Devanagari verse and LATEX In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094721.23782.16729830846405335799.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2770 Lines: 64 Dear Adriano and list members, I second Dominik's recommendations about XeTeX. There is also an email list specifically for Ledmac and Ledpar: . I will send Adriano and any other interested party an example file using Ledpar for a parallel edition of verses. Please write to me off-list. Best, Michael Slouber Visiting Adjunct Instructor Religious Studies Brown University Ph.D. Candidate South and Southeast Asian Studies UC Berkeley On Dec 11, 2011, at 9:36 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Dear Adriano, > > A few points: > 1. don't use the Devanagari package any more. Move to XeTeX, and then you can just use a font like Sanskrit 2003 (one of my favourites) and type your input in Unicode. You can type Devanagari directly, or you can type using the Velthuis encoding (aasiidraajaa, k.r.s.na.h), or standard scholarly romanisation (IAST). The Velthuis or IAST can be converted automatically into Devanagari by XeTeX itself. > > Because XeTeX can accept Velthuis-style input, your legacy documents made with the Devanagari package will still be perfectly okay, and you won't have to retype anything. > > Making this move to XeTeX will greatly simplify your working, and make your documents easier to write, maintain, and process. > > 2. Your difficulty with the stanza environment in LEDMAC is a TeX problem, not an indological one, and you'll have much more luck with responses if you send your question to the main TeX discussion forum, called comp.text.tex. Questions about LEDMAC are commonly asked and answered there (e.g., here). > > 3. There's also a mailing list specifically for XeTeX where people discuss special issues that relate to unusual languages and XeTeX (here). Sanskrit sometimes gets discussed there, LEDMAC less so. > > 4. The current maintainer of LEDMAC is Ma?eul Rouquette to whom you can write for help if you think you've found a bug. > > Best wishes, > Dominik Wujastyk > > On 11 December 2011 19:29, Adriano Aprigliano wrote: > Dear list members, > > > > I?ve been trying to use the devanagari package together with ledmac and ledpar to produce facing page output and it works fine for prose texts (though I have some doubts on how many text chunks should be handled at each Pages environment) , but when a I try to write verse ---either with the \stanza or {astanza} environments---, it doesn?t work. Could anyone give me a hand on that? > > Best wishes > > Adriano Aprigliano > > > > Universidade de S?o Paulo > > S?o Paulo/SP > > Brasil > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM Mon Dec 12 15:45:08 2011 From: mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM (alakendu das) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 11 15:45:08 +0000 Subject: ANNAPURNA Message-ID: <161227094724.23782.11058799329082069340.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 945 Lines: 13 To all Members, It was inspiring indeed going through Matthew Kapstein's mail referring to John Huntington's ideas on "Annapurna'.However, may I humbly take this oppurtunity to state that two mountain peaks in the Kumayun Himalaya mountain range in Uttarakhand region of Northern India are respectively named "Trishul" and " PanchaChulli", where shape of the peak has been emphasied. The peak which is shaped like a trident( a constant accompaniment of Lord Shiva) came to be known as "Trishul', while the peak "Panchachullhi" took it's name from the shape of five(pancha) ovens(chulha) placed side by side. However, mountains in India, on an average , are named on mythogical characters. Alakendu Das. mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM Tue Dec 13 16:06:59 2011 From: mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM (alakendu das) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 11 16:06:59 +0000 Subject: ANNAPURNA In-Reply-To: <20111212154508.3794.qmail@f6mail-145-188.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: <161227094727.23782.17469729357763658310.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1076 Lines: 24 On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 21:15:58 +0530 wrote > > To all Members, > > It was inspiring indeed going through Matthew Kapstein's mail referring to John Huntington's ideas on "Annapurna'.However, may I humbly take this oppurtunity to state that two mountain peaks in the Kumayun Himalaya mountain range in Uttarakhand region of Northern India are respectively named "Trishul" and " PanchaChulli", where shape of the peak has been emphasied. The peak which is shaped like a trident( a constant accompaniment of Lord Shiva) came to be known as "Trishul', while the peak "Panchachullhi" took it's name from the shape of five(pancha) ovens(chulha) placed side by side. However, mountains in India, on an average , are named on mythogical characters. > > > Alakendu Das. > mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com FollowRediff Deal ho jaye!to get exciting offers in your city everyday. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM Wed Dec 14 02:04:04 2011 From: mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 11 21:04:04 -0500 Subject: PDF of Essays on Kashmiri grammar by Grierson Message-ID: <161227094731.23782.16764313074683373872.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 553 Lines: 23 Dear List Members, Greetings ! Would anyone happen to have a PDF copy of the following book / collection of papers of George Grierson and mind sharing it with me off the list ? Grierson, George A. 1899. Essays on Kashmiri grammar. Reprinted from the Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Bengal for 1896-1899. London: Luzac. Thanks in advance. Yours, Mrinal Kaul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU Wed Dec 14 15:14:30 2011 From: mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU (Michael Slouber) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 11 10:14:30 -0500 Subject: PDF of Essays on Kashmiri grammar by Grierson In-Reply-To: <4E926F45-F6C9-40DE-9FA3-797C1E8864ED@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227094734.23782.5034679141916537065.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 868 Lines: 42 Dear Mrinal, This collection of Grierson is available on Google Books: < PDF >. Best, Michael Slouber Visiting Adjunct Instructor Religious Studies Brown University Ph.D. Candidate South and Southeast Asian Studies UC Berkeley On Dec 13, 2011, at 9:04 PM, Mrinal Kaul wrote: > Dear List Members, > Greetings ! Would anyone happen to have a PDF copy of the following book / collection of papers of George Grierson and mind sharing it with me off the list ? > > Grierson, George A. 1899. Essays on Kashmiri grammar. > Reprinted from the Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of > Bengal for 1896-1899. London: Luzac. > > > Thanks in advance. > > Yours, > > Mrinal Kaul > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Wed Dec 14 15:48:57 2011 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 11 16:48:57 +0100 Subject: GRETIL update #399 Message-ID: <161227094737.23782.15345240585482424817.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 658 Lines: 30 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Harivamsa , constituted text, *-passages, and App. I revised Harivamsa , all pada indeces revised __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm From hermantull at GMAIL.COM Thu Dec 15 22:15:25 2011 From: hermantull at GMAIL.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Thu, 15 Dec 11 17:15:25 -0500 Subject: The free indological collection Message-ID: <161227094739.23782.3672322186347108552.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 395 Lines: 17 I was just searching online for a text, and I came across "The Free Indological Collection." (http://www.archive.org/details/freeindological) The number of texts available seems impressive. I had not heard of this project before, and I did not find information of significance online about it. Does anyone have any more information on this project? Thanks, -- Herman Tull Princeton, NJ From RDavidson at FAIRFIELD.EDU Thu Dec 15 22:51:56 2011 From: RDavidson at FAIRFIELD.EDU (Davidson, Ronald) Date: Thu, 15 Dec 11 22:51:56 +0000 Subject: The free indological collection In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094742.23782.1085247552464749996.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 981 Lines: 34 As the site indicates, it is the collection of .pdf and other types of scans accumulated in archive.org to date, classified as those Indological in nature. I use their .pdfs incessantly. Many otherwise difficult to obtain works can be found there, whether because they are an out of copyright Indian or European work, or for other reasons. Between Google.books and archive.org, much of the Indological 19th century has been opened up for use in the last few years. Ronald Davidson Fairfield, CT On 12/15/11 5:16 PM, "Herman Tull" wrote: >I was just searching online for a text, and I came across "The Free >Indological Collection." >(http://www.archive.org/details/freeindological) The number of texts >available seems impressive. > >I had not heard of this project before, and I did not find information >of significance online about it. Does anyone have any more >information on this project? > >Thanks, > >-- >Herman Tull >Princeton, NJ From vjroebuck at BTINTERNET.COM Fri Dec 16 07:21:11 2011 From: vjroebuck at BTINTERNET.COM (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 11 07:21:11 +0000 Subject: The free indological collection In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094744.23782.630547508209045231.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1176 Lines: 41 Thank you both for this, it looks very useful. Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK On 15 Dec 2011, at 22:51, Davidson, Ronald wrote: > As the site indicates, it is the collection of .pdf and other types of > scans accumulated in archive.org to date, classified as those Indological > in nature. > > I use their .pdfs incessantly. Many otherwise difficult to obtain works > can be found there, whether because they are an out of copyright Indian or > European work, or for other reasons. Between Google.books and > archive.org, much of the Indological 19th century has been opened up for > use in the last few years. > > Ronald Davidson > Fairfield, CT > > > > On 12/15/11 5:16 PM, "Herman Tull" wrote: > >> I was just searching online for a text, and I came across "The Free >> Indological Collection." >> (http://www.archive.org/details/freeindological) The number of texts >> available seems impressive. >> >> I had not heard of this project before, and I did not find information >> of significance online about it. Does anyone have any more >> information on this project? >> >> Thanks, >> >> -- >> Herman Tull >> Princeton, NJ From h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX Sat Dec 17 17:05:36 2011 From: h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX (Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 11 09:05:36 -0800 Subject: Namaste Merry Christmas Message-ID: <161227094759.23782.6040764086685985757.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2744 Lines: 65 Dear professor: Merry Christmas. Please try to pass and help in this petition: On Monday, December 19th, in Tomsk, Russia, a historic court case is taking place. Some of our movement's detractors are making a major court case, attempting to establish that Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad Gita As It Is is is "extremist literature" and on these grounds have it banned throughout the country. The implications for ISKCON in Russia and even in the former USSR are far reaching. If the devotees lose this case all Srila Prabhupada's books may be banned because they are full of quotations from the Gita. Seeing all of our activities are based on Bhagavad Gita it could conceivably lead to attempts to close our movement in some places. The prosecutors are pushing this absurd case with great determination and vigor. There have already been three court hearings, in which the testimony of the so called "experts" gathered by the prosecutors was recognized as being inadequate. However, the prosecutor's office has requested new testimony, not from well-known experts on Hinduism from Moscow, but from some unknown academics from a local Siberian university. This move clearly suggests that a particular court decision is being engineered. Their approach brings to mind the Inquisitions of the Middle Ages, witch hunts, and the burning of books and persecution of dissidents during the Soviet period of Russian history. Please announce at your Sunday feasts that the programme is being offered to the Lord as an appeal that if He so desires He may help the devotees win this case. The GBC Executive Committee also hereby requests all? scholar in Hinduism to sign an online petition which will be presented to the court on Monday, showing international support for Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad Gita. Please sign at: http://www.petitions24.com/gita It is in both English and Russian. Please pass the link on to your friends, and encourage whoever you can to sign. We also request all the followers of Srila Prabhupada to pray to Lord Krishna and Lord Nrsimhadeva to protect his movement in Russia, and to help the devotees' efforts in court there to be successful. Hoping this meets you well. Hare Krsna, Your servants, The GBC Executive Committee, Hrdaya Caitanya das (Chairman) Bhakti Caitanya Swami Tamohara das Dr. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez Lic. M.A. Ph. D. Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad Internacional Euroamericana. Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada. Miembro del Instituto de Estudios Filos?ficos de Saltillo A. C. www.uie.edu.es -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU Sat Dec 17 14:55:00 2011 From: ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Paul Hackett) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 11 09:55:00 -0500 Subject: London lodging In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094756.23782.11699851515164685662.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1459 Lines: 45 I stayed there for IABS (2005) and can recommend it as well -- it is located conveniently near SOAS and is easy walking distance to the British Library. Paul Hackett Columbia University On Dec 17, 2011, at 9:38 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Elizabeth's note jogged my memory about The Penn Club, which I've heard recommended. > > http://www.pennclub.co.uk/ > > Dominik > > > On 17 December 2011 14:42, Elizabeth De Michelis wrote: > Dear Prof Olivelle, > > in case you are still looking for a place to stay in London, this may be of interest: > > http://www.allenhall.org.uk/facilities/accommodation.html > > I 'discovered' when I attended an event there: central, quiet, clean, and much less expensive than commercial accommodation, it may just fit the bill! > > Best regards, > > Elizabeth De Michelis > > > From: Patrick Olivelle > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Sent: Sunday, 11 December 2011, 12:45 > Subject: [INDOLOGY] London lodging > > I will be in London for some work in August for about a week. I wonder whether any of you know of accommodation in central London other than hotels that charge you an arm and a leg!! Even accommodation in a university hostel condition. Thanks. > > Patrick > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From e.demichelis at YMAIL.COM Sat Dec 17 13:42:38 2011 From: e.demichelis at YMAIL.COM (Elizabeth De Michelis) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 11 13:42:38 +0000 Subject: London lodging In-Reply-To: <9EC5EED5-FB70-4FAF-8D18-1E56D7D0405D@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <161227094749.23782.1614526343398019148.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 981 Lines: 30 Dear Prof Olivelle, in case you are still looking for a place to stay in London, this may be of interest: http://www.allenhall.org.uk/facilities/accommodation.html I 'discovered' when I attended an event there: central, quiet, clean, and much less expensive than commercial accommodation, it may just fit the bill! Best regards, Elizabeth De Michelis ________________________________ From: Patrick Olivelle To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Sunday, 11 December 2011, 12:45 Subject: [INDOLOGY] London lodging I will be in London for some work in August for about a week. I wonder whether any of you know of accommodation in central London other than hotels that charge you an arm and a leg!! Even accommodation in a university hostel condition. Thanks. Patrick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sat Dec 17 14:38:08 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 11 15:38:08 +0100 Subject: London lodging In-Reply-To: <1324129358.90506.YahooMailNeo@web29605.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227094753.23782.13232441781050280396.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1246 Lines: 45 Elizabeth's note jogged my memory about The Penn Club, which I've heard recommended. http://www.pennclub.co.uk/ Dominik On 17 December 2011 14:42, Elizabeth De Michelis wrote: > Dear Prof Olivelle, > > in case you are still looking for a place to stay in London, this may be > of interest: > > http://www.allenhall.org.uk/facilities/accommodation.html > > I 'discovered' when I attended an event there: central, quiet, clean, > and much less expensive than commercial accommodation, it may just fit the > bill! > > Best regards, > > Elizabeth De Michelis > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Patrick Olivelle > *To:* INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > *Sent:* Sunday, 11 December 2011, 12:45 > *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] London lodging > > I will be in London for some work in August for about a week. I wonder > whether any of you know of accommodation in central London other than > hotels that charge you an arm and a leg!! Even accommodation in a > university hostel condition. Thanks. > > Patrick > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark.allon at SYDNEY.EDU.AU Sat Dec 17 09:39:04 2011 From: mark.allon at SYDNEY.EDU.AU (Mark Allon) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 11 20:39:04 +1100 Subject: Third Australasian Sanskrit Conference (Third ASC), 20-22 July, 2012 Message-ID: <161227094746.23782.6458220113554373727.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2159 Lines: 23 Dear fellow Sanskritists, The Third Australasian Sanskrit Conference will be held at the Women?s College, University of Sydney, 20-22 July, 2012. Thanks to the generosity and collegiality of Australian Catholic University, we are delighted to announce that the keynote speaker will be Professor Francis X Clooney. Professor Clooney is the Parkman Professor of Divinity and Professor of Comparative Theology at Harvard. After earning his doctorate in South Asian languages and civilizations (University of Chicago, 1984), he taught at Boston College until joining Harvard in 2005. His primary areas of scholarship are theological commentarial writings in the Sanskrit and Tamil traditions of Hindu India. For many years he has served the academic community through membership of the editorial board of ten prestigious journals, including the European Journal for Philosophy of Religion, International Journal of Hindu Studies, Journal of the American Academy of Religion, Theological Studies and Journal of Religious Ethics. He is the author of more than 14 books and over 160 book chapters and articles in leading journals. He is coming to Australia in mid-2012 as a Distinguished Visiting Research Fellow in the Asia-Pacific Centre for Inter-religious Dialogue and the Faculty of Theology and Philosophy at Australian Catholic University. The conference web-site is https://sites.google.com/site/thirdasc2012. Information will be added to the site as it becomes available. Those interested in presenting a paper at the conference should submit a title and abstract of approximately 250 words by 31 March, 2012. The selection of papers and presentations will be made by members of the organising committee. Abstracts and all correspondence should be sent to ThirdASC at gmail.com. With kind regards The Organising Committee Mark Allon, Jennifer Cover, Andrew McGarrity, University of Sydney (http://sydney.edu.au/arts/indian/) Anita C. Ray, Australian Catholic University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Sun Dec 18 16:00:24 2011 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 11 08:00:24 -0800 Subject: Request for information concerning two words for musical instruments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094767.23782.7256176795168632170.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 8217 Lines: 204 1. As a person from Madurai in South India, I'm very familiar with the "nagaraa" drum used during festivals of the local temple. 2. In my ancestral village Viravanallur (Tirunelveli District), there's a "nagaraa mandapam" close to our agraharam. 3. Upon my request to a professor in Chennai (Tamilnadu, South India), I got the following details. This professor is married to a woman from Meghalaya, so the details must have solid authenticity. Here are the details with two images of the drums attached. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From Professor Nagarajan Vadivel: ---------------------------------------------- Meghalaya's main ethnic communities, each having its own distinctive customs and cultural traditions are the Khasis (of Mon-Khmer ancestry), the Garos (of Tibeto-Burman origin) and the Jaintias said to be from South East Asia. The common trait binding all three communities is its matrilineal system in which the family linage is taken from the mother's side The principal languages in Meghalaya are Khasi, Pnar and Garo with English as the official language of the State. It was at the initiative of the Christian missionaries that the Khasi, Pnar and Garo languages and literature have developed and emerged in the list of Modern Indian Languages. The Khasi language is believed to be one of the very few surviving dialects of the Mon-khmer family of languages in India today. I am afraid that there is a mix up in the terms mentioned in the email. ?One of the drums collected was from the Khasi of Meghalaya, a wooden kettledrum named by the Khasi as ka naakraa. Sachs traces the etymology through Arabic, Persian, Hindustani/Urdu (naqqaara, which is correct), and Skt. naagaraa (?). A second drum from the Garo of western Meghalaya, a double-headed wooden drum, has the Garo name dama, for which Sachs indicates 'zu sanskr. daamaamaa' (?). In South Asian tradition, damaamaa is a Persian and Urdu name for a very large metal kettledrum in Mughal India. http://megtourism.gov.in/garofest.html Wangala Festival The Wangala is a Garo post-harvest festival that marks the end of the agricultural year. It is an act of thanksgiving to the sun god of fertility, known as Misi-A-Gilpa-Saljong-Galapa. A nagara (a special drum used for calling the people on solemn occasions) is beaten. The men wear dhotis, half-jackets and turbans with feathers. The women wear colourful dresses made of silk, blouses and a head-wrap with feathers. The highlight of the festival is when 300 dancers and 100 drums descend on the field in all their splendour in celebration. The Khasis and Jaintias are particularly fond of songs praising the nature like lakes, waterfalls, hills etc. and also expressing love for their land. They use different types of musical instruments like drums, duitara and instruments similar to guitar, flutes, pipes and cymbals. http://musicforum.weebly.com/1/category/all/1.html As far as the written form is concerned the Kashi language is like Tamil has a huge repository of poems in oral form depicting the valor, love and devotion to nature. Attempt was made to introduce the script to kashi using Sylhet Nagai. The people of Meghalaya did not adopt the Bengali script. The Britishers who a charter with the ruler of Meghalaya developed the Roman script and the Roman script is currently used. In the field of music due to its proximity to Hindi belt and due to the dominance of Persian in the area many words could have entered into the daily usasge words in the speech community. As indicated below damaru is an Indian term and not an Islamic term. Since the inquiry is is on ethnomusicology the following passage will be of help The invasion of India by Persian and the Mongolian armies brought in a newer stream, though contacts with these countries were centuries older. The mercantile, religious and martial connections of northern Indian with its bordering lands had been in existence from ages, and with these also were linked the exchange of music and instruments. Various flutes and drums as depicted in our own murals as well as in those of Central Asia, besides certain common words in music, bear ample testimony to this fact. But, a drastic encounter began by about the 11th Century A.D. from when what is termed the Islamic influence noticeable begins. However, it may not be correct to call all this Islamic, except for the Sufi content and spirit, just as it would not be right to think of a musical instrument as of Hindu origin, except the damaru, the veena and the venu which have definite associations with the pantheon. Be that as it may, along with the fresh ingress, developed different musical forms and quite possibly even instruments such as the daff, the sitar, the sarode and the shehnai were brought by these aliens. While it has to be conceded that number of instruments have come to us from outside, it is equally true that quite a large number have also traveled out. The Far East received many instruments from India, mainly through traders and Buddhist monks who went on missionary work; so has the Middle West. As a matter of fact, the general consensus of opinion is that bowed instruments originated here and then migrated to various parts of the world. Again, from the 8th Century A.D. till about the 15th Yavadveepa and Suvarnadveepa (present Indonesia) were highly Indianized musically, which fact is revealed in the names of their old instruments: padahi (Skt. Pataha), murava (Skt. Muraja, Tamil murasu), vangsi (Skt. vamsi), kahala, ghanta and bheri. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ? ? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hope it helps, V.S. Rajam On Dec 17, 2011, at 7:35 PM, Gregory Bailey wrote: > Dear List, > > A colleague who is not on the list made the request, included below. > > If anybody can throw some light on this I would be most appreciative. > > Thanks in advance. > > Cheers, > > Greg Bailey > > > ?One of the drums collected was from the Khasi of Meghalaya, a > wooden > kettledrum named by the Khasi as ka naakraa. Sachs traces the > etymology > through Arabic, Persian, Hindustani/Urdu (naqqaara, which is > correct), and > Skt. naagaraa (?). > > A second drum from the Garo of western Meghalaya, a double-headed > wooden > drum, has the Garo name dama, for which Sachs indicates 'zu sanskr. > daamaamaa' (?). In South Asian tradition, damaamaa is a Persian and > Urdu > name for a very large metal kettledrum in Mughal India. > > Though both local drum names could well be loan words from South Asian > culture, in my annotations I indicate that naagaraa and daamaamaa > cannot > be traced in Skt. (Could not find either in my M.M-W. and Macdonell > dictionaries.) > > Is this comment correct? If they are traceable, I imagine it would > be as > very late loan words into Skt. but don't know of the sources to > confirm or > deny this. > > At the moment I'm retaining my 'not traceable' comment. Any light > you can > shed on this relatively minor yet tricky issue, given the prestige > of Skt. > in South Asia and Sachs in ethnomusicology, would be greatly > appreciated. > It doesn't seem appropriate to let Sachs's Skt. connections stand, > however > well intended, if they are a mistake. I simply don't know where he > obtained his ideas about Skr. naagaraa and daamaamaa, and question > their > validity.? > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: wangla1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 12518 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: khasi1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 7603 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Greg.Bailey at LATROBE.EDU.AU Sun Dec 18 03:35:01 2011 From: Greg.Bailey at LATROBE.EDU.AU (Gregory Bailey) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 11 14:35:01 +1100 Subject: Request for information concerning two words for musical instruments In-Reply-To: <2A050F71F50A0E4DA87B7DA81A57EE9804E1A65D@EXPRSV05.mcs.usyd.edu.au> Message-ID: <161227094762.23782.3348676618390563503.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1717 Lines: 45 Dear List, A colleague who is not on the list made the request, included below. If anybody can throw some light on this I would be most appreciative. Thanks in advance. Cheers, Greg Bailey ?One of the drums collected was from the Khasi of Meghalaya, a wooden kettledrum named by the Khasi as ka naakraa. Sachs traces the etymology through Arabic, Persian, Hindustani/Urdu (naqqaara, which is correct), and Skt. naagaraa (?). A second drum from the Garo of western Meghalaya, a double-headed wooden drum, has the Garo name dama, for which Sachs indicates 'zu sanskr. daamaamaa' (?). In South Asian tradition, damaamaa is a Persian and Urdu name for a very large metal kettledrum in Mughal India. Though both local drum names could well be loan words from South Asian culture, in my annotations I indicate that naagaraa and daamaamaa cannot be traced in Skt. (Could not find either in my M.M-W. and Macdonell dictionaries.) Is this comment correct? If they are traceable, I imagine it would be as very late loan words into Skt. but don't know of the sources to confirm or deny this. At the moment I'm retaining my 'not traceable' comment. Any light you can shed on this relatively minor yet tricky issue, given the prestige of Skt. in South Asia and Sachs in ethnomusicology, would be greatly appreciated. It doesn't seem appropriate to let Sachs's Skt. connections stand, however well intended, if they are a mistake. I simply don't know where he obtained his ideas about Skr. naagaraa and daamaamaa, and question their validity.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nasadasin at GMAIL.COM Sun Dec 18 23:52:28 2011 From: nasadasin at GMAIL.COM (Al Collins) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 11 14:52:28 -0900 Subject: hotel in Mumbai Message-ID: <161227094775.23782.2858745989177648114.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 512 Lines: 14 My wife will be in Mumbai in late January for three days, on her way to another destination. She wants to spend 3 nights in Mumbai fairly near the Gateway of India in order to visit Elephanta and recover from jet lag. The Taj Mahal is quite expensive, and I'm wondering if anyone has other suggestions. Appreciate any help, Al Collins -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Sun Dec 18 23:44:50 2011 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 11 15:44:50 -0800 Subject: Request for information concerning two words for musical instruments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094771.23782.3861455035493528852.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4487 Lines: 129 I got some more information on this quest from a senior research scholar in Chennai. Here you go: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ As I know know/see as a regular feature at temple festival processions from my childhood (aged 71 years now) at my place Mylapore Mada streets of Arulmiku Kapaaleeswarar temple which is hardly a cricket ball throw from my house. The naagraa drums are tandem vessels, (set of 2 drums) each of the size nearly of that of north Indian tabla placed in the back of a bull hanging both sides from the centre of the backbone of the animal and the player standing by one side, walks or stands on ground depends on the movements of the procession. He plays with two different type of sticks that are hardly a foot and and a half long. One stick strikes the drum just few inches away from end so that the stick itself will vibrate on strike while the other being played by another type of stick held by another hand having a hooked end in which only the hook's center strikes The two drums are played with its respective sticks reasonably ln a fast and the rhythm changes during playing them and many times the player switches strikes crosswise between the drums. As usual the drum and other instrument the players go in front of the procession before the deity and the priests chanting from the of Holy scriptures follow the deity from back (in Saivite temples) The use of of an animal back is only to locate it in procession and those double drums are placed in floor on stabilising rings made out of straw in the temple halls and played during important inside-temple rituals. The rhythm with oscileting peak and also very high pitch during aarthi etc. Regarding the word's etymology naagraa may be connected with naagraa style of temple architecture of the sikaaraas as found in Orissa Or that may be connected with naagars the people from north east. Because only the Buddhists from Mongolian connected race who percolated the Himalaya ranges into the plains and when migrated to south for preeching buddism they are referred here as naagars. You know about 'naagaannikai connected with a chozha king/marriage/ son born / kept in a boat / reached - - - - - etc ' The Town Naga(r)pattinam got its name from Bhuddists who had their monasteries near sea shore even during Kolothunga chola of 12 the century CE (Leidon Copperplate grants - the Grant was on award against a request by a camping warrior general from Far east Buddhist King anpudan NDLS Mylapore ++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hope this helps, V.S. Rajam On Dec 17, 2011, at 7:35 PM, Gregory Bailey wrote: > Dear List, > > A colleague who is not on the list made the request, included below. > > If anybody can throw some light on this I would be most appreciative. > > Thanks in advance. > > Cheers, > > Greg Bailey > > > ?One of the drums collected was from the Khasi of Meghalaya, a wooden > kettledrum named by the Khasi as ka naakraa. Sachs traces the > etymology > through Arabic, Persian, Hindustani/Urdu (naqqaara, which is > correct), and > Skt. naagaraa (?). > > A second drum from the Garo of western Meghalaya, a double-headed > wooden > drum, has the Garo name dama, for which Sachs indicates 'zu sanskr. > daamaamaa' (?). In South Asian tradition, damaamaa is a Persian and > Urdu > name for a very large metal kettledrum in Mughal India. > > Though both local drum names could well be loan words from South Asian > culture, in my annotations I indicate that naagaraa and daamaamaa > cannot > be traced in Skt. (Could not find either in my M.M-W. and Macdonell > dictionaries.) > > Is this comment correct? If they are traceable, I imagine it would > be as > very late loan words into Skt. but don't know of the sources to > confirm or > deny this. > > At the moment I'm retaining my 'not traceable' comment. Any light > you can > shed on this relatively minor yet tricky issue, given the prestige > of Skt. > in South Asia and Sachs in ethnomusicology, would be greatly > appreciated. > It doesn't seem appropriate to let Sachs's Skt. connections stand, > however > well intended, if they are a mistake. I simply don't know where he > obtained his ideas about Skr. naagaraa and daamaamaa, and question > their > validity.? > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Mon Dec 19 01:06:02 2011 From: conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Frank Conlon) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 11 17:06:02 -0800 Subject: hotel in Mumbai In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094778.23782.10730560360793688076.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 834 Lines: 31 Al, It has been many years since I used it, but there was a relatively nice, but not too expensive hotel a bit south of the Gateway, the Ascot. BUT I haven't been inside it for a long time. Frank Frank F. Conlon Professor Emeritus of History, South Asian Studies & Comparative Religion University of Washington Seattle, WA 98195-3560 USA Co-editor, H-ASIA Managing Director, Bibliography of Asian Studies Online On Sun, 18 Dec 2011, Al Collins wrote: > My wife will be in Mumbai in late January for three days, on her way to > another destination. She wants to spend 3 nights in Mumbai fairly near the > Gateway of India in order to visit Elephanta and recover from jet lag. The > Taj Mahal is quite expensive, and I'm wondering if anyone has other > suggestions. > ? > Appreciate any help, > ? > Al Collins > > From james_fitzgerald at BROWN.EDU Mon Dec 19 13:34:25 2011 From: james_fitzgerald at BROWN.EDU (Fitzgerald, James) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 11 08:34:25 -0500 Subject: Ph.D. Scholarship in the History of Mathematical Sciences in India Message-ID: <161227094789.23782.13356096301686881123.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3982 Lines: 93 Dear colleagues, I post this on behalf of Dr. Clemency Montelle of Christchurch, New Zealand. Please circulate as widely as possible. ============================================================== Announcement of a PhD Scholarship in the History of Mathematical Sciences in India An international project on the history of computational methods in Sanskrit mathematical science has been awarded a three-year grant from New Zealand's premier fund for research excellence, the Marsden Fund Council, administered by the Royal Society of New Zealand. http://www.royalsociety.org.**nz/2010/09/24/2010-round-**press-releases/ As part of the activities of this project, the investigators are offering a doctoral study and research opportunity with the title 'Research Associate' carrying three years of full support for 2012-2014 for the completion of a doctoral degree at the University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand (http://www.canterbury.ac.nz/)**. The scholarship will provide an annual living allowance/stipend of NZ$25,000 and tuition costs for three years, and is tenable for study towards the degree of Doctor of Philosophy in the appropriate department or program (for example, the Department of Mathematics and Statistics or the History and Philosophy of Science program) on the topic of the history of mathematical sciences. The Research Associate will research and write under the supervision of the Principal Investigator a PhD thesis relating to the project goals, e.g., a critical edition with translation and commentary of a previously unpublished text on Sanskrit computational astronomy. He or she is also expected to assist (at a workload of 12 hours per week) with project related research tasks. The successful applicant will meet the following criteria at the time of appointment: *attainment of a sufficiently advanced level of study (preferably a Master's degree) to permit completion of the doctorate within the three years of the project. * sufficient knowledge of and interest in some combination of relevant fields of study, within history of the mathematical sciences and/or Indology, to design and complete under the supervisor's guidance a doctoral thesis relating to the project's objectives. * initiative and adaptability to carry out tasks in the Research Associate workload. * ability to enroll in the PhD programme at the University of Canterbury, including a minimum of eight to nine months per year residence in Christchurch, New Zealand to pursue their studies. With the approval of the Principal Investigator, this position may be held concurrently with any other scholarship, award, or bursary, excluding any such award requiring teaching or other duties separate from this project. How to Apply Inquiries about the terms and scope of this position are encouraged. Please contact us through the addresses given below. To apply, please send a cover letter briefly describing your relevant background and interests, a recent academic curriculum vitae, and the names and contact information of two references. Application deadline is 16 January 2012. Applications (pdf format preferable) and queries should be sent to: Dr Clemency Montelle: c.montelle at math.canterbury.ac.**nz or Department of Mathematics and Statistics University of Canterbury Private Bag 4800 Christchurch, 8140 New Zealand Dr Clemency Montelle (Principal Investigator) c.montelle at math.canterbury.ac. **nz Department of Mathematics and Statistics University of Canterbury Christchurch, New Zealand Dr Kim Plofker (Associate Investigator) plofkerk at union.edu Department of Mathematics Union College Schenectady NY 12308, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU Mon Dec 19 10:05:26 2011 From: slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU (Lindquist, Steven) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 11 10:05:26 +0000 Subject: hotel in Mumbai In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094784.23782.128584853820644548.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1534 Lines: 38 My wife and I either stay at Suba Palace or the Hotel Regency in Fort (a 15 min. walk to the Gateway). Our preference is for the latter as it caters more to the Indian businessman than the tourist, but both are nice enough. Steven Lindquist Southern Methodist University faculty.smu.edu/slindqui On Dec 19, 2011, at 3:17 AM, "(Maitreya) Borayin Larios" > wrote: Hi Al, I would recommend the Suba Palace which is right behind the Gate of India. It is not the cheapest (around 5000 Rs) but at least it is decent, something which is nowadays hard to get in Mumbai if you don't want to spend lot's of money. I stayed there two years ago on a couple of occasions. http://hotelsubapalace.com/ All the best for your trip, Maitreya ______________________________ (Maitreya) Borayin Larios J?gerpfad 13 69118 Heidelberg Germany Mobile: (+49)17630489172 Home: (+49)62211379228 http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/mitarbeiter/larios/larios.php http://www.flickr.com/photos/shrimaitreya/ On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 12:52 AM, Al Collins > wrote: My wife will be in Mumbai in late January for three days, on her way to another destination. She wants to spend 3 nights in Mumbai fairly near the Gateway of India in order to visit Elephanta and recover from jet lag. The Taj Mahal is quite expensive, and I'm wondering if anyone has other suggestions. Appreciate any help, Al Collins From shrimaitreya at GMAIL.COM Mon Dec 19 09:16:16 2011 From: shrimaitreya at GMAIL.COM ((Maitreya) Borayin Larios) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 11 10:16:16 +0100 Subject: hotel in Mumbai In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094781.23782.1512099991265389038.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1235 Lines: 42 Hi Al, I would recommend the Suba Palace which is right behind the Gate of India. It is not the cheapest (around 5000 Rs) but at least it is decent, something which is nowadays hard to get in Mumbai if you don't want to spend lot's of money. I stayed there two years ago on a couple of occasions. http://hotelsubapalace.com/ All the best for your trip, Maitreya ______________________________ (Maitreya) Borayin Larios J?gerpfad 13 69118 Heidelberg Germany Mobile: (+49)17630489172 Home: (+49)62211379228 http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/mitarbeiter/larios/larios.php http://www.flickr.com/photos/shrimaitreya/ On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 12:52 AM, Al Collins wrote: > My wife will be in Mumbai in late January for three days, on her way to > another destination. She wants to spend 3 nights in Mumbai fairly near the > Gateway of India in order to visit Elephanta and recover from jet lag. The > Taj Mahal is quite expensive, and I'm wondering if anyone has other > suggestions. > > Appreciate any help, > > Al Collins > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nasadasin at GMAIL.COM Mon Dec 19 22:02:19 2011 From: nasadasin at GMAIL.COM (Al Collins) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 11 13:02:19 -0900 Subject: hotel in Mumbai In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094792.23782.1371199480449697641.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 755 Lines: 22 Thanks to all who gave me information about Mumbai hotels. We will definitely use one of the hotels suggested. Happy holidays! Al Collins, Ph.D. On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Al Collins wrote: > My wife will be in Mumbai in late January for three days, on her way to > another destination. She wants to spend 3 nights in Mumbai fairly near the > Gateway of India in order to visit Elephanta and recover from jet lag. The > Taj Mahal is quite expensive, and I'm wondering if anyone has other > suggestions. > > Appreciate any help, > > Al Collins > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From whitakjl at WFU.EDU Tue Dec 20 01:28:02 2011 From: whitakjl at WFU.EDU (Jarrod Whitaker) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 11 20:28:02 -0500 Subject: Upanayana Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094795.23782.15089452725890840660.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1552 Lines: 52 Dear Colleagues: A Master's student of mine is working on the Sankhayana Grhya Sutra description of the Upanayana and Samavartana rites for his thesis. He has completed his translation of both rites and we are going through his translation and exegesis. Can anyone help with the meaning of the following three lines from II.2: ga??n?? tveti ga?ak?m?n ||13|| To those who desire of a number [of followers/attendants] he says the verse ?You of multitudes?? (RV. II.23.1). ?gant? m? ri?a?yateti yodh?n ||14|| To warriors he says ?Come here, do not suffer harm? (R.V. VIII.20.1). mah?vy?hrtibhirvy?dhit?n ||15|| To the sick he says the great utterances (mah?vy?hrti). We cannot figure out what these three lines are doing. They would structurally correspond to the three varna-s mentioned up to this point, but I am unsure of even this. But if this is so, then line 13 would refer to a brahmin, but what does gana mean here? A "following"? a "polity"? And why in 15 are vaisya called "sick" (vyaadhitaan) and why are the mahaavyaahr.ti-s spoken to them? Are these lines exceptions in the case of special initiates or par for the course for all initiates? Oldenberg is not helpful and neither are the other sources we know of. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Cheers and happy holidays JLW -- Jarrod L. Whitaker, Ph.D. Associate Professor, South Asian Religions Graduate Program Director Wake Forest University Department of Religion P.O. Box 7212 Winston-Salem, NC 27109 whitakjl at wfu.edu p 336.758.4162 f 336.758.4462 From slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU Tue Dec 20 11:18:27 2011 From: slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU (Lindquist, Steven) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 11 11:18:27 +0000 Subject: Macintosh Devanagari font In-Reply-To: <009101ccbf06$40d03e40$c270bac0$@no> Message-ID: <161227094802.23782.4473079286296318901.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2012 Lines: 43 Dear Lars, I'm posting to the list as this may apply to others. A person may not need a new keyboard file for certain fonts when transitioning from OS9 to OSX. OSX changed to using 'resource' (.rsrc) files for keyboard layouts. The solution (at least one we came up with that allowed Manjushree by Madhav to work in OSX) is simply to remove any file type from the current keyboard name (.layout or whatever it is; I don't remember now) and replace it with .rsrc and then reinstall. This may or may not work here, but since it works in one case, it is worth a try. Best, Steven STEVEN LINDQUIST, PH.D. ASSISTANT PROFESSOR DIRECTOR OF ASIAN STUDIES _____________ Department of Religious Studies Southern Methodist University PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275 http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui From: Lars Martin Fosse > Reply-To: Lars Martin Fosse > Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:58:06 +0100 To: Indology > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Macintosh Devanagari font Dear members of the list, A person who is not a member of the listasked me to pass on the the following request to you. ?Ecological Linguistics appears to be out of business. They are not answering their email, nor answering their phone, nor answering their snail mail. I was a user of their Macintosh Devanagari font for Systems 9 and earlier, which doesn't work on OS X. Theyupgraded that font for OS X, but are no longer around to fill orders. Wouldsomeone be kind enough to send that updated font to sfauthor at aol.com? In fact, I may only need the keyboard file, since I updated all of my OS 9 fonts with a program called FontXChange. Huge thanks in advance! ? Best regards Lars Martin Fosse -------------------------------------------- Facebook.com/YogaVidya.com YogaVidya.com From lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO Tue Dec 20 10:58:06 2011 From: lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 11 11:58:06 +0100 Subject: Macintosh Devanagari font Message-ID: <161227094798.23782.4808341504105300302.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1049 Lines: 36 Dear members of the list, A person who is not a member of the list asked me to pass on the the following request to you. "Ecological Linguistics appears to be out of business. They are not answering their email, nor answering their phone, nor answering their snail mail. I was a user of their Macintosh Devanagari font for Systems 9 and earlier, which doesn't work on OS X. They upgraded that font for OS X, but are no longer around to fill orders. Would someone be kind enough to send that updated font to sfauthor at aol.com? In fact, I may only need the keyboard file, since I updated all of my OS 9 fonts with a program called FontXChange. Huge thanks in advance! " Best regards Lars Martin Fosse -------------------------------------------- Facebook.com/YogaVidya.com YogaVidya.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI Tue Dec 20 11:17:47 2011 From: asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI (Asko Parpola) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 11 13:17:47 +0200 Subject: Upanayana Question In-Reply-To: <4EEFE4A2.1050608@wfu.edu> Message-ID: <161227094800.23782.13230451668655845979.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3358 Lines: 89 The corresponding suutras of the Kau.siitakag.rhyasuutra are Ratna Gopaala Bha.t.ta's edition (1908: 14) identical with the ;saa:nkhaayanag.rhyasuutra, but in T. R. Chintamani's edition (1944: 79) they run as follows with Bhavatraata's commentary: 2.2.8 ga.naanaa.m tveti ga.nakaamam Bhavatraata: ga.naanaa.m tvety anaya rcaa ga.nakaamam upanayed devasya tveti 2.2.9 aagantaa maa ri.sa.nyateti yaudham Bhavatraata: upanayed ity evaanu.sa:nga.h 2.2.10 mahaavyaah.rtibhir vyaadhitam Bhavatraata: upanayed ity evaanu.sa:nga.h Vaasudeva's ;saa:nkhaayanag.rhyasa:ngraha.h: ...devas tvaa savitu.h prasave ;svinor baahubhyaa.m puu.s.no hastaabhyaam upanayaami devadatteti mantra.m maa.navakanaamopalak.sita.m japet / atha maa.navakasamuuhaadhipatyam icchati tato ga.naanaa.m tvaa ga.napati.m havaamaha ity etaam .rca.m japet / aagantaa maa ri.sety anena .rcaa (sic) k.satyiyaan upanayet / atha maa.navakas traivar.niko vyaadhito bhavati tato mahaavyaah.rtii; catasro japet / o.m bhuu.h o.m bhuva.h o.m sva.h o.m mahar bhuur bhuva.h sva.h, upanayaami devadattety anena mantre.na / eva.m trayaa.naam api var.naanaa.m mantre maa.navakanaamoccaarayitavyam / apare tv eva.m vyaacak.sate sevasya tvaa savitur ity anena saha samuccaya iti / ... Both Somanaathopaadhyaaya (1908: 29) and Ganga Sagar Rai (1995: 30) have maa.navakasamuuhaadhipatyam icchati, but one should undoubtedly read maa.navake samuuhaadhipatyam icchati, or maa.navaka.h samuudhaadhipatyam icchati (this latter reading is in line with atha maa.navakas traivar.niko vyaadhito bhavati). With best wishes, also for a Happy Christmas and New Year, Asko Parpola Quoting "Jarrod Whitaker" : > Dear Colleagues: > A Master's student of mine is working on the Sankhayana Grhya Sutra > description of the Upanayana and Samavartana rites for his thesis. > He has completed his translation of both rites and we are going > through his translation and exegesis. Can anyone help with the > meaning of the following three lines from II.2: > > ga??n?? tveti ga?ak?m?n ||13|| > To those who desire of a number [of followers/attendants] he says > the verse ?You of > multitudes?? (RV. II.23.1). > > ?gant? m? ri?a?yateti yodh?n ||14|| > To warriors he says ?Come here, do not suffer harm? (R.V. VIII.20.1). > > mah?vy?hrtibhirvy?dhit?n ||15|| > To the sick he says the great utterances (mah?vy?hrti). > > > We cannot figure out what these three lines are doing. They would > structurally correspond to the three varna-s mentioned up to this > point, but I am unsure of even this. But if this is so, then line 13 > would refer to a brahmin, but what does gana mean here? A > "following"? a "polity"? And why in 15 are vaisya called "sick" > (vyaadhitaan) and why are the mahaavyaahr.ti-s spoken to them? Are > these lines exceptions in the case of special initiates or par for > the course for all initiates? > > Oldenberg is not helpful and neither are the other sources we know of. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Cheers and happy holidays > > JLW > > > -- > > Jarrod L. Whitaker, Ph.D. > Associate Professor, South Asian Religions > Graduate Program Director > > Wake Forest University > Department of Religion > P.O. Box 7212 > Winston-Salem, NC 27109 > whitakjl at wfu.edu > p 336.758.4162 > f 336.758.4462 > > From zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE Tue Dec 20 21:58:57 2011 From: zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE (Robert Zydenbos) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 11 22:58:57 +0100 Subject: two Tibetological research fellowships advertised in Munich Message-ID: <161227094805.23782.15992405680609819907.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 997 Lines: 27 Not Indological, but perhaps of interest for those readers who combine Indian and Tibetan studies: the University of Munich has advertised two positions (one PhD studentship, one postdoc fellowship) in a research project on kingship in Tibet: English language ads: PhD: https://www.h-net.org/jobs/job_display.php?id=43786 Postdoc: https://www.h-net.org/jobs/job_display.php?id=43785 German language ads: PhD: http://www.uni-muenchen.de/aktuelles/stellenangebote/wissenschaft/20111216123043.html Postdoc: http://www.uni-muenchen.de/aktuelles/stellenangebote/wissenschaft/20111124140700.html These are also announced on the research group's website: http://www.kingship.indologie.uni-muenchen.de/index.html Applications should arrive by 30 January 2012, in triplicate. RZ ----- Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Institute of Indology and Tibetology Department of Asian Studies University of Munich Germany Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827 Web http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~zydenbos From McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Tue Dec 20 22:18:32 2011 From: McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 11 09:18:32 +1100 Subject: ANU Hindi Short Film Competition In-Reply-To: <75a0d94d1dbce.4ef109b4@anu.edu.au> Message-ID: <161227094807.23782.3045682322004312206.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1881 Lines: 75 Dear Indology Colleagues Would you kindly circulate this to all your Hindi teaching colleagues? Apologies for any cross-posting With thanks in advance and best wishes for the holiday season McComas ======== Dear Colleagues,? It would be appreciated if you could kindly circulate this update to your Hindi students regarding an extension to the upload deadline for the Australian National University's Hindi Short Film Competition.? With the festive season in full swing, we have decided to extend the deadline by one month to the ?31st of January, 2012. I encourage you all to use this opportunity as a fun platform in which your students and departments can showcase their Hindi skills and creativity to the rest of the South Asian academic departments around the world. This is an opportunity for us to come closer together in a celebration of our shared passion of Hindi. Please remind all of the potential entrants that apart from guaranteed global fame, there is a first (and only) prize of aud$500 up for grabs. The rules are quite simple: 5 minute maximum duration Current non-native pg / ug students of Hindi are eligible Content should be fun, informative, creative and in Hindi -- All the best, Patrick McCartney? skype - psdmccartney Canberra Australia http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfpCc8G_cUw&feature=related -- McComas Taylor Head, South Asia Program ANU College of Asia and the Pacific Tel: +61 2 6125 3179 Location: Baldessin Precinct Building, 4.24 Website: McComas Taylor(http://arktos.anu.edu.au/chill/index.php/mct)Courses: Learn about some of my courses:? Sanskrit 1(http://www.screenr.com/NSBs)? |? Indian Epics(http://screenr.com/uUBs) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From toke.knudsen at ONEONTA.EDU Wed Dec 21 17:11:31 2011 From: toke.knudsen at ONEONTA.EDU (Toke L. Knudsen) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 11 12:11:31 -0500 Subject: PhD Scholarship in History of Mathematical Astronomy in India Message-ID: <161227094809.23782.17913225436816044933.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3558 Lines: 92 Dear all, The below announcement might be of interest to your students. All best wishes, Toke ===== Announcement of a PhD Scholarship in the History of Mathematical Sciences in India An international project on the history of computational methods in Sanskrit mathematical science has been awarded a three-year grant from New Zealand's premier fund for research excellence, the Marsden Fund Council, administered by the Royal Society of New Zealand. http://www.royalsociety.org.nz/2010/09/24/2010-round-press-releases/ As part of the activities of this project, the investigators are offering a doctoral study and research opportunity with the title 'Research Associate' carrying three years of full support for 2012-2014 for the completion of a doctoral degree at the University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand (http://www.canterbury.ac.nz/). The scholarship will provide an annual living allowance/stipend of NZ$25,000 and tuition costs for three years, and is tenable for study towards the degree of Doctor of Philosophy in the appropriate department or program (for example, the Department of Mathematics and Statistics or the History and Philosophy of Science program) on the topic of the history of mathematical sciences. The Research Associate will research and write under the supervision of the Principal Investigator a PhD thesis relating to the project goals, e.g., a critical edition with translation and commentary of a previously unpublished text on Sanskrit computational astronomy. He or she is also expected to assist (at a workload of 12 hours per week) with project related research tasks. The successful applicant will meet the following criteria at the time of appointment: *attainment of a sufficiently advanced level of study (preferably a Master's degree) to permit completion of the doctorate within the three years of the project. * sufficient knowledge of and interest in some combination of relevant fields of study, within history of the mathematical sciences and/or Indology, to design and complete under the supervisor's guidance a doctoral thesis relating to the project's objectives. * initiative and adaptability to carry out tasks in the Research Associate workload. * ability to enroll in the PhD programme at the University of Canterbury, including a minimum of eight to nine months per year residence in Christchurch, New Zealand to pursue their studies. With the approval of the Principal Investigator, this position may be held concurrently with any other scholarship, award, or bursary, excluding any such award requiring teaching or other duties separate from this project. How to Apply Inquiries about the terms and scope of this position are encouraged. Please contact us through the addresses given below. To apply, please send a cover letter briefly describing your relevant background and interests, a recent academic curriculum vitae, and the names and contact information of two references. Application deadline is 16 January 2012. Applications (pdf format preferable) and queries should be sent to: Dr Clemency Montelle: c.montelle at math.canterbury.ac.nz or Department of Mathematics and Statistics University of Canterbury Private Bag 4800 Christchurch, 8140 New Zealand Dr Clemency Montelle (Principal Investigator) c.montelle at math.canterbury.ac.nz Department of Mathematics and Statistics University of Canterbury Christchurch, New Zealand Dr Kim Plofker (Associate Investigator) plofkerk at union.edu Department of Mathematics Union College Schenectady NY 12308, USA From lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO Thu Dec 22 09:37:53 2011 From: lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 11 10:37:53 +0100 Subject: VS: 2nd try Message-ID: <161227094811.23782.12902757198042371250.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1391 Lines: 68 Dear members of the list, Once again, I am forwarding a message from Brian Akers, who is not on Indology. If anyone can help, he'd be delighted. Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76 0674 Oslo - Norway Phone: 47 22 32 12 19 Mobile: 47 90 91 91 45 Email: lmfosse at getmail.no llmfosse at online.no Fra: Sfauthor at aol.com [mailto:Sfauthor at aol.com] Sendt: 21. desember 2011 21:28 Til: lmfosse at getmail.no; lmfosse at online.no Emne: 2nd try Big thanks to Lars for posting my request, and an even bigger thanks to Steven Lindquist for his helpful suggestion. Unfortunately, I made the switch to OS X about four years ago and no longer have that file on my computer. I still have the original floppy disk that I purchased twenty years ago, but now none of our computers have a floppy-disk drive! I realize that what I'm asking for is a bit of a hassle, so I'd be delighted to send the first person living in the United States who sends the updated Ecological Linguistics Devanagari font for Mac OS X to sfauthor at aol.com a complete set of our paperbacks in appreciation. Brian Dana Akers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rrocher at SAS.UPENN.EDU Fri Dec 23 20:06:28 2011 From: rrocher at SAS.UPENN.EDU (Rosane Rocher) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 11 15:06:28 -0500 Subject: just published Message-ID: <161227094814.23782.14451702259936718975.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 893 Lines: 28 Just published: Rosane Rocher and Ludo Rocher, /The Making of Western Indology: Henry Thomas Colebrooke and the East India Company/, (Royal Asiatic Society Books), xv + 238 pp., 5 plates. London and New York: Routledge, 2012. LCC: DS435.7.C65R64 2011 ISBN: 978-0-415-33601-7 Contents: 1. From Heir to the Crown to Turnspit (London, 1765-1782) 2. Against the Grain (Rural Bengal, 1783-1795) 3. Law and Sanskrit (Mirzapur, 1795-1801) 4. Matter of Duty (Calcutta, 1802-1807) 5. Theorist of the Bengal Government (Calcutta, 1807-1814) 6. Promoting India (London, 1815-1827) 7. Sunset (London, 1827-1837) 8. Legacy Bibliography Index Link: _www.routledge.com/9780415336017 _ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hellwig7 at GMX.DE Sat Dec 24 10:55:41 2011 From: hellwig7 at GMX.DE (Oliver Hellwig) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 11 10:55:41 +0000 Subject: New version of the Digital Corpus of Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227094816.23782.9181121689922384350.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 579 Lines: 21 Dear list, a new version of the Digital Corpus of Sanskrit has been released at http:// kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/index.php Additions and features: * Book 12 of the Mahabharata completed * Word clouds for a fast overview of central terms in a text; found at the query page (http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/index.php? contents=abfrage) The tagging program with which the corpus has been created will be released as freeware in the next days. I will post a message with download details. Nice Christmas to all! Best regards, Oliver Hellwig From jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM Sun Dec 25 05:44:17 2011 From: jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM (girish jha) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 11 21:44:17 -0800 Subject: Navavarsam Madhumayam 2012 Message-ID: <161227094822.23782.3836998691796844302.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1209 Lines: 32 Dear? Indologists, Please accept my very best wishes for a divinely merry Christmas and a happy, prosperous and spiritual New Year 2012. ???????????? Merry? Christmas? 2012 Yad?gamena? prakrt?ih ? prasann? Su??dval? j?yata? pus?pit?? bh?h?. Ks?am?vat?ram?? muditendut?ram ? Kr?is?t?an?r?yan?am ?natas tam?.? // 1// Saccid?nandar?p?ya? sargasthityantak?rin?e. Haraye? dhy?nagamy?ya? kr?is?t??ya? namo? namah?. //2// ??????? Navavars?am?? madhumayam?? 2012 Sahasr?n??o? pr?cy?m? ?kimiva tanut?m? tvam?? kalayasi An?dir nityo? n??as tvam asi? parame?asya? tanayah??. Samr?ddham?? san?s?ram?? sapadi? kuru? divy?tmavibhay? Nir?tan?kam?? g?tam?? dhvanatu? navavars?am?? madhumayam?. //1// Navody?ne? pus?pa? tvam asi? kimu? khinnah?? svavapus?? Nir?so?? nuts?ho vilasasi na saurabhyavidhurah?. Sugandh?nand?bhy?m?? pramadaya? di?o?man?galamay?r Nir?tan?kam?? g?tam?? dhvanatu? navavars?am?? madhumayam?. //2// ??????????????????????????? Kindest regards Sincerely Girish K. Jha Dept of Sanskrit, Patna University Patna 800 005 INDIA ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM Sun Dec 25 08:51:55 2011 From: jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM (girish jha) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 11 00:51:55 -0800 Subject: Reposting of Navavarsam madhumayam. Message-ID: <161227094828.23782.15364095469539141077.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1279 Lines: 33 Dear? Indologists, Kindly forgive me for reposting as there were errors in the first one. Please accept my very best wishes for a divinely merry Christmas and a happy, prosperous and spiritual New Year 2012. ???????????? Merry? Christmas? 2012 Yad?gamena? prakrt?ih ? prasann? Su??dval? j?yata? pus?pit?? bh?h?. Ks?am?vat?ram?? muditendut?ram ? Kr?is?t?an?r?yan?am ?natas tam?.? // 1// Saccid?nandar?p?ya? sargasthityantak?rin?e. Haraye? dhy?nagamy?ya? kr?is?t??ya? namo? namah?. //2// ??????? Navavars?am?? madhumayam?? 2012 Sahasr?n??o? pr?cy?m? ?kimiva tanut?m? tvam?? kalayasi An?dir nityo? n??as tvam asi? parame?asya? tanayah??. Samr?ddham?? san?s?ram?? sapadi? kuru? divy?tmavibhay? Nir?tan?kam?? g?tam?? dhvanatu? navavars?am?? madhumayam?. //1// Navody?ne? pus?papracaya? ??kimu? khinnah?? svavapus?? Nir?so?? nuts?ho vilasasi na saurabhyavidhurah?. Sugandh?nand?bhy?m?? pramadaya? di?o?man?galamay?r Nir?tan?kam?? g?tam?? dhvanatu? navavars?am?? madhumayam?. //2// ??????????????????????????? Kindest regards Sincerely Girish K. Jha Dept of Sanskrit, Patna University Patna 800 005 INDIA ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM Sun Dec 25 05:17:38 2011 From: mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM (alakendu das) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 11 05:17:38 +0000 Subject: MERRY CHRISTMAS Message-ID: <161227094818.23782.7118423833853663668.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 397 Lines: 14 To all list Members and scholars in Indology, A MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL OF YOU ALAKENDU DAS mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM Sun Dec 25 06:27:32 2011 From: mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM (alakendu das) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 11 06:27:32 +0000 Subject: Fw: [INDOLOGY] MERRY CHRISTMAS Message-ID: <161227094825.23782.15743135902226870282.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 598 Lines: 21 Note: Forwarded message attached -- Original Message -- From: alakendu das mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] MERRY CHRISTMAS -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: unknown sender Subject: no subject Date: no date Size: 6583 URL: From himal.trikha at UNIVIE.AC.AT Mon Dec 26 11:06:20 2011 From: himal.trikha at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Himal Trikha) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 11 12:06:20 +0100 Subject: Delhi lodging Message-ID: <161227094831.23782.6272471460586594013.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 639 Lines: 30 Dear list members, following the recent "London lodging"-thread in the forum I wonder if someone could recommend a fairly decent accomodation with reasonable prices in Delhi. I heard of two: YWCA Blue triangle Ashoka Rd, Connaught Place, Delhi 110001 Ph: (+91-11) 23360133 Email: btfh at ywcaofdelhi.org www.ywcaofdelhi.org YWCA International Guest House 10,International Guest House, Parliament Street, Connaught Place, Delhi, 110001 Ph: (+91-11) 23361561, 23361662 Email: ywcaindigh at vsnl.net www.ywcaindia.org Both of them are currently not available. Thank you very much and happy holidays, Himal Trikha Vienna, Austria From tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU Mon Dec 26 19:16:21 2011 From: tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU (Tracy Coleman) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 11 19:16:21 +0000 Subject: Delhi lodging In-Reply-To: <4EF8552C.9090208@univie.ac.at> Message-ID: <161227094833.23782.17812989015291536861.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1700 Lines: 78 A list I compiled in the summer: World Buddhist Centre Mr. Rev. Gyomyo Nakamura D - 137, East of Kailash New Delhi, Delhi - 110 001, India Email : wbc_delhi at yahoo.com , namgyal3 at rediffmail.com Telephone : +(91)-(11)-46504821/ 26227453/ 26424015 Mobile : +(91)-9811062211/ 9868222041 Godwin Hotels Paharganj http://www.godwinhotels.com/ Hotel Star Plaza 5158, Main Bazar | Pahar Ganj New Delhi 110055, India AIIS Guest House C-133 Defence Colony Colonels Retreat Defence Colony http://www.colonelsretreat.com/ Lutyens Bungalow South Central http://www.lutyensbungalow.co.in/ Aashiyan B & B South -- Near Haus Khaz http://www.aashiyanbnb.com/ La Sagrita Tourist Home Sundar Nagar http://www.lasagrita.com (Under renovations in July 2011) Ahuja's B & B M-89, Greater Kailash-I, New Delhi ? 110 048. ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of Himal Trikha [himal.trikha at UNIVIE.AC.AT] Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 4:06 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Delhi lodging Dear list members, following the recent "London lodging"-thread in the forum I wonder if someone could recommend a fairly decent accomodation with reasonable prices in Delhi. I heard of two: YWCA Blue triangle Ashoka Rd, Connaught Place, Delhi 110001 Ph: (+91-11) 23360133 Email: btfh at ywcaofdelhi.org www.ywcaofdelhi.org YWCA International Guest House 10,International Guest House, Parliament Street, Connaught Place, Delhi, 110001 Ph: (+91-11) 23361561, 23361662 Email: ywcaindigh at vsnl.net www.ywcaindia.org Both of them are currently not available. Thank you very much and happy holidays, Himal Trikha Vienna, Austria From jkirk at SPRO.NET Tue Dec 27 15:48:58 2011 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (Jo) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 11 08:48:58 -0700 Subject: FW: [INDOLOGY] Delhi lodging Message-ID: <161227094838.23782.13572266699541568352.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3626 Lines: 242 About the India International Centre: http://www.iicdelhi.nic.in/?q=node/260, membership is required. About that, see http://www.iicdelhi.nic.in/?q=node/101 . Joanna K. --------------------------------- On Behalf Of Himal Trikha Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 3:21 AM Thank you very much; also for the many responses I got off list. For the sake of the future inexperienced Delhi traveler I sum up recommendations I got off list below. Thanks again, Himal --- - http://www.jukaso.com/location.htm - http://www.sriaurobindoashram.net/visitors - India International Centre: http://www.iicdelhi.nic.in/?q=node/260 Guest houses of academic institutions, booking dependent on contacts: - Delhi University, guest quarters of the Institute for Economic Growth - Jawaharlal Nehru University, Aravali Guest House - SIT Study Abroad India - American Institute of Indian Studies --- Am 26.12.2011 20:16, schrieb Tracy Coleman: > A list I compiled in the summer: > > World Buddhist Centre > Mr. Rev. Gyomyo Nakamura > D - 137, East of Kailash > New Delhi, Delhi - 110 001, India > Email : wbc_delhi at yahoo.com , namgyal3 at rediffmail.com Telephone : > +(91)-(11)-46504821/ 26227453/ 26424015 Mobile : +(91)-9811062211/ > 9868222041 > > Godwin Hotels > Paharganj > http://www.godwinhotels.com/ > > Hotel Star Plaza > 5158, Main Bazar | Pahar Ganj > New Delhi 110055, India > > AIIS Guest House > C-133 > Defence Colony > > Colonels Retreat > Defence Colony > http://www.colonelsretreat.com/ > > Lutyens Bungalow > South Central > http://www.lutyensbungalow.co.in/ > > Aashiyan B& B > South -- Near Haus Khaz > http://www.aashiyanbnb.com/ > > La Sagrita Tourist Home > Sundar Nagar > http://www.lasagrita.com > (Under renovations in July 2011) > > Ahuja's B& B > M-89, Greater Kailash-I, > New Delhi - 110 048. > ________________________________________ > From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of Himal Trikha > [himal.trikha at UNIVIE.AC.AT] > Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 4:06 AM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Delhi lodging > > Dear list members, > > following the recent "London lodging"-thread in the forum I wonder if > someone could recommend a fairly decent accomodation with reasonable > prices in Delhi. > > I heard of two: > > YWCA Blue triangle > Ashoka Rd, Connaught Place, Delhi 110001 > Ph: (+91-11) 23360133 > Email: btfh at ywcaofdelhi.org > www.ywcaofdelhi.org > > YWCA International Guest House > 10,International Guest House, Parliament Street, Connaught Place, > Delhi, > 110001 > Ph: (+91-11) 23361561, 23361662 > Email: ywcaindigh at vsnl.net > www.ywcaindia.org > > Both of them are currently not available. > > Thank you very much and happy holidays, > > Himal Trikha > Vienna, Austria -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From himal.trikha at UNIVIE.AC.AT Tue Dec 27 10:20:47 2011 From: himal.trikha at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Himal Trikha) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 11 11:20:47 +0100 Subject: Delhi lodging In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094836.23782.13502332276576664451.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2496 Lines: 108 Thank you very much; also for the many responses I got off list. For the sake of the future inexperienced Delhi traveler I sum up recommendations I got off list below. Thanks again, Himal --- - http://www.jukaso.com/location.htm - http://www.sriaurobindoashram.net/visitors - India International Centre: http://www.iicdelhi.nic.in/?q=node/260 Guest houses of academic institutions, booking dependent on contacts: - Delhi University, guest quarters of the Institute for Economic Growth - Jawaharlal Nehru University, Aravali Guest House - SIT Study Abroad India - American Institute of Indian Studies --- Am 26.12.2011 20:16, schrieb Tracy Coleman: > A list I compiled in the summer: > > World Buddhist Centre > Mr. Rev. Gyomyo Nakamura > D - 137, East of Kailash > New Delhi, Delhi - 110 001, India > Email : wbc_delhi at yahoo.com , namgyal3 at rediffmail.com > Telephone : +(91)-(11)-46504821/ 26227453/ 26424015 > Mobile : +(91)-9811062211/ 9868222041 > > Godwin Hotels > Paharganj > http://www.godwinhotels.com/ > > Hotel Star Plaza > 5158, Main Bazar | Pahar Ganj > New Delhi 110055, India > > AIIS Guest House > C-133 > Defence Colony > > Colonels Retreat > Defence Colony > http://www.colonelsretreat.com/ > > Lutyens Bungalow > South Central > http://www.lutyensbungalow.co.in/ > > Aashiyan B& B > South -- Near Haus Khaz > http://www.aashiyanbnb.com/ > > La Sagrita Tourist Home > Sundar Nagar > http://www.lasagrita.com > (Under renovations in July 2011) > > Ahuja's B& B > M-89, Greater Kailash-I, > New Delhi ? 110 048. > ________________________________________ > From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of Himal Trikha [himal.trikha at UNIVIE.AC.AT] > Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 4:06 AM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Delhi lodging > > Dear list members, > > following the recent "London lodging"-thread in the forum I wonder if > someone could recommend a fairly decent accomodation with reasonable > prices in Delhi. > > I heard of two: > > YWCA Blue triangle > Ashoka Rd, Connaught Place, Delhi 110001 > Ph: (+91-11) 23360133 > Email: btfh at ywcaofdelhi.org > www.ywcaofdelhi.org > > YWCA International Guest House > 10,International Guest House, Parliament Street, Connaught Place, Delhi, > 110001 > Ph: (+91-11) 23361561, 23361662 > Email: ywcaindigh at vsnl.net > www.ywcaindia.org > > Both of them are currently not available. > > Thank you very much and happy holidays, > > Himal Trikha > Vienna, Austria From hellwig7 at GMX.DE Wed Dec 28 19:05:27 2011 From: hellwig7 at GMX.DE (Oliver Hellwig) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 11 19:05:27 +0000 Subject: Linguistic software SanskritTagger Message-ID: <161227094840.23782.15654331506375421205.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1419 Lines: 34 Dear list, as announced a few days ago, the linguistic program SanskritTagger is now available as freeware at http://www.indsenz.com/int/index.php?content=sanskrit_tagger_download SanskritTagger has been used to build the Digital Corpus of Sanskrit. Please refer to http://www.indsenz.com/int/index.php?content=sanskrit_tagger for a very short introduction into the (technical) background of the program and for some links to papers describing it. Some additional remarks: * The download consists of two parts: the program itself and the database. Although the database is zipped, it is still quite large (~250 MB), so you should download it over a fast internet connection. * Some less important parts of the user interface and of the help file are still in German. These parts will be translated into English in the next releases of the program. * If you have questions about how to use the program or some of its functions, you may mail me, or post them in the discussion forum found at http://www.indsenz.com/int/index.php?content=messageboard * Finally, to answer one of the most frequently asked questions right here: SanskritTaggger is built for Windows, and the program relies quite heavily on Windows APIs. I do not know whether it is possible to run the program on another operation system. Hope it helps to promote the computational processing of Sanskrit! Best regards, Oliver Hellwig From utkragh at HUM.KU.DK Wed Dec 28 23:10:41 2011 From: utkragh at HUM.KU.DK (Ulrich T. Kragh) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 11 00:10:41 +0100 Subject: request for Russian article Message-ID: <161227094842.23782.12287244166610255539.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 736 Lines: 19 Dear Indology list, I would like to obtain a PDF or photocopy of an article published in a Russian journal that is not available at my local library. Would anyone with access to the journal be willing to help me? The article in question is the following: K.M. Bogdanov, "????????? ????? ?? ????-???? (????????? ?.?. ???????)" in ????????? ????????? ??????? vol. 2.13, 2010, pp. 263-271, published by the Institute of Oriental Manuscripts, RAS. With best regards, Tim Dr. Ulrich Timme Kragh IIAS, Leiden University Rapenburg 59 2311 GJ Leiden The Netherlands -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From utkragh at HUM.KU.DK Thu Dec 29 10:41:17 2011 From: utkragh at HUM.KU.DK (Ulrich T. Kragh) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 11 11:41:17 +0100 Subject: request for Russian article In-Reply-To: <1F66872A1D7E184FADA521025DD5F15A097CE840FD@post> Message-ID: <161227094844.23782.104122595766647548.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 314 Lines: 17 Dear List, I wish to thank Nataliya Yanchevskaya, who has helped me get the article I needed. Sincerely, Tim Dr. Ulrich Timme Kragh -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Marcus.Schmuecker at OEAW.AC.AT Mon Dec 5 16:11:35 2011 From: Marcus.Schmuecker at OEAW.AC.AT (=?utf-8?Q?Schm=C3=BCcker=2C_Marcus?=) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 11 17:11:35 +0100 Subject: De Nobili Research Library Prize 2012 Message-ID: <161227094674.23782.8920244679513069768.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1905 Lines: 15 To whom it may concern (and please excuse, if it was already done). Announcing the ?De Nobili Research Library Prize? for 2012 The association ?De Nobili Research Library ? Association for Indology and the Study of Religion?, Vienna, aims to promote research on Indian religions, especially from the point of view of the mutual encounter between Christian spirituality as well as Christianity and Western thought in general, and the various manifestations of Indian religiosity. To further this aim, the Association disseminates the results of such research through the organisation of symposia and public lectures, and especially through its two publication series (see http://www.istb.univie.ac.at/cgi-bin/sdn/sdn.cgi). This year, the Association decided to promote its aims in still another way. It herewith announces, for the first time, an essay competition. Stu?dents, young researchers and others interested in the Christian encounter with Indian religions are cordially invited to submit an essay on the topic ?Dimensions of the Christian Encounter with the Religions of India: Aims, Possibilities, Ramifications?. The previously unpublished essays may be written in English or German, and should amount to approximately 18,000 words. A prize committee consisting of members of the Association and an external referee will evaluate the submitted essays in a double-blind review process. The best essay will be awarded with the ?De Nobili Research Library Prize? for 2012; the prize money amounts to ? 2,500. The prize may be shared by two winners. Essays should be formatted in 12 pt, with 1.5 line spacing, and submitted in PDF-format until May 20, 2012, the 407th anniversary of Roberto de Nobili?s arrival in India, to the Deputy Secretary of the Association, Dr. Marcus Schm?cker, at Marcus.Schmuecker at oeaw.ac.at. With best regards, Karin Preisendanz, Chairperson of the Association From venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM Tue Feb 1 04:43:59 2011 From: venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM (venetia ansell) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 11 10:13:59 +0530 Subject: suppliers of India game boards? In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F152C6538AD@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227091385.23782.8829132982465027130.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 674 Lines: 25 Dear Allen, There is a gentleman in Gujarat, Dr Wakanker, who has done much research on traditional Indian games. Would you like me to put you in touch? If carrom boards are of interest, there is at least one manufacturer that I have used in Bangalore. Again I can dig out the details if helpful. Best, Venetia On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 5:58 AM, Thrasher, Allen wrote: > Many thanks to Christopher Vielle and Johannes Schneider for their > suggestions. > > Allen > > > Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. > Asian Division, Library of Congress > Washington, DC 20540-4810 > The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of > Congress. > From vjroebuck at BTINTERNET.COM Tue Feb 1 14:09:33 2011 From: vjroebuck at BTINTERNET.COM (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 11 14:09:33 +0000 Subject: STIMW Conference - call for papers Message-ID: <161227091388.23782.14446678224291210630.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 912 Lines: 27 Sanskrit Tradition in the Modern World 2011 Call for Papers We are still accepting paper proposals for this year's STIMW until 28 Feb 2011. An Epics theme is developing but other proposals will also be considered. Postgraduate students are welcome to submit Work in Progress proposals and we particularly welcome proposals from colleagues outside the UK who will be in this part of the world at the time. The advantage of this symposium is that papers are circulated beforehand so the day itself can focus on extended discussion. The symposium will be held on Fri 27 May in Manchester (UK). Further details at http://www.arts.manchester.ac.uk/stimw We look forward to hearing from you. Jackie Hirst Dr Jacqueline Suthren Hirst Senior Lecturer in South Asian Studies Religions and Theology University of Manchester Oxford Road Manchester M13 9PL UK jacqueline.hirst at manchester.ac.uk From hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Tue Feb 1 14:37:19 2011 From: hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (James Hegarty) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 11 14:37:19 +0000 Subject: Offline Sanskrit Resources Message-ID: <161227091390.23782.5243184511836694572.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 328 Lines: 17 Dear Colleagues, I have a general enquiry about offline Sanskrit resources. Does anyone know of electronic Sanskrit resources (especially searchable grammars and dictionaries) that function offline? I am interested for myself, but also for my students! With Thanks and Best Wishes, James Hegarty Cardiff University UK From mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU Tue Feb 1 15:00:12 2011 From: mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU (Michael Slouber) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 11 16:00:12 +0100 Subject: Offline Sanskrit Resources Message-ID: <161227091392.23782.7575548700885229320.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 493 Lines: 10 Dear Dr. Hegarty, There are a lot of offline resources. You can start with the GRETIL e-library for scanned books including Whitney's grammar and roots. For dictionaries you could start with the HTML version of Monier-Williams available at Indica et Buddhica . That can be used in a web browser even when offline. Many more resources are privately circulated. Best, Michael From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Feb 1 19:10:18 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 11 20:10:18 +0100 Subject: IOLR catalogue of Sanskrit books Message-ID: <161227091395.23782.10239753645919244925.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 470 Lines: 19 The following volume is a fine piece of bibliographical scholarship, and still an essential guide to the IOLR's printed collections (now amalgamated in the BL collections, but mostly not yet added to the OPAC).* * *Catalogue of the Library of the India Office, vol. 2, part 1: Sanskrit books*. Natha, P., Chaudhuri, J.B. and Napier, C.F. London, 1938-1957. 4 vols. Does anyone know of a scanned version? I don't see one in archive.org or the DLI. Thanks, Dominik From pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK Thu Feb 3 10:59:24 2011 From: pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK (Peter Flugel) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 11 10:59:24 +0000 Subject: New Articles - International Journal of Jaina Studies (Online) Vol. 6 & 7 (2010-2011) Message-ID: <161227091398.23782.3154739708043860129.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1794 Lines: 67 http://www.soas.ac.uk/research/publications/journals/ijjs/ International Journal of Jaina Studies (Online) Vol. 6, No. 1 (2010) 1-20 Julia A.B. Hegewald Visual and Conceptual Links between Jaina Cosmological, Mythological and Ritual Instruments International Journal of Jaina Studies (Online) Vol. 6, No. 2 (2010) 1-45 John E. Cort In Defence of Icons in Three Languages: The Iconophilic Writings of Ya?ovijaya International Journal of Jaina Studies (Online) Vol. 6, No. 3 (2010) 1-4 Willem B. Boll?e Review of Die Erl?sungslehre der Jainas International Journal of Jaina Studies (Online) Vol. 6, No. 4 (2010) 1-28 Lisa N. Owen Demarcating Sacred Space: The Jina Images at Kalugumalai International Journal of Jaina Studies (Online) Vol. 6, No. 5 (2010) 1-13 Kim Pflofker Links between Sanskrit and Muslim Science in Jaina Astronomical Works International Journal of Jaina Studies (Online) Vol. 6, No. 6 (2010) 1-49 Frank van den Bossche God, the Soul and the Creatrix: Haribhadra S?ri on Ny?ya and S??khya International Journal of Jaina Studies (Online) Vol. 7, No. 1 (2011) 1-17 McComas Taylor P?r?abhadra?s Pa?catantra: Jaina tales or Brahmanical Outsourcing? International Journal of Jaina Studies (Online) Vol. 7, No. 2 (2011) 1-22 Hawon Ku Temples and Patrons: The Nineteenth-Century Temple of Mot???h at ?atru?jaya International Journal of Jaina Studies (Online) Vol. 7, No. 3 (2011) 1-26 Kristi L. Wiley The Significance of Adhyavas?ya in Jain Karma Theory -- Dr Peter Fl?gel Chair, Centre of Jaina Studies Department of the Study of Religions Faculty of Arts and Humanities School of Oriental and African Studies University of London Thornhaugh Street Russell Square London WC1H OXG Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776 E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Feb 3 12:21:33 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 11 13:21:33 +0100 Subject: New head of SSV, Varanasi Message-ID: <161227091403.23782.15683353781829301835.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1204 Lines: 31 The Times of India today carried this report (here, but with popups): LUCKNOW: A professor in the department of oriental Sanskrit at Lucknow University, Binda Prasad Mishra, has been appointed as the new vice-chancellor of Sampurnanand Sanskrit Vishvavidyalaya, Varanasi. The decision to this effect was taken by governor B L Joshi on Wednesday morning. Mishra will assume the charge on Thursday. Mishra said, "As the Sanskrit university is facing some problems, the governor had to immediately appoint a vice-chancellor, and I am happy that he has chosen me for the task." The appointment came after varsity's vice-chancellor V Kutumb Shastrisent his resignation to the governor. Further sharing his views on the deplorable state of Sanskrit, one of the richest languages of the country, Mishra said, "We need to infuse interest in the students to study the language. The most important thing is to make the courses job-oriented." DW From pkoskikallio at GMAIL.COM Thu Feb 3 11:52:03 2011 From: pkoskikallio at GMAIL.COM (Petteri Koskikallio) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 11 13:52:03 +0200 Subject: Third Prakrit Summer School at Ghent University Message-ID: <161227091400.23782.8479943920569838357.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 581 Lines: 21 Dear list, We are pleased to announce the 3rd Prakrit Summer School (July 26 - August 6, 2011) in Ghent, Belgium. A similar introductory course in Jaina-Maharastri took place in Finland in 2007 and in W?rzburg in 2009. The PSS is also this time going to focus on the Jain epic and narrative material. For details see: www.pss3.ugent.be Please inform any students who may be interested in participating. With best wishes, Eva De Clercq (evadeclercq at gmail.com) Anna Aurelia Esposito (anna.esposito at mail.uni-wuerzburg.de) Petteri Koskikallio (pkoskikallio at gmail.com) From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Thu Feb 3 14:54:20 2011 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 11 15:54:20 +0100 Subject: GRETIL update #387 Message-ID: <161227091405.23782.12888144024306229995.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 812 Lines: 30 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Ratnakirti (?): Vadarahasya, also known as Udayananirakarana Tarabhattarikanamastottarasatakastotra Tarasragdharastotra __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From Joerg.Gengnagel at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Fri Feb 4 11:11:22 2011 From: Joerg.Gengnagel at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Joerg Gengnagel) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 11 12:11:22 +0100 Subject: Heidelberg Summer Schools 2011 Message-ID: <161227091407.23782.15670847919548903710.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1376 Lines: 53 Dear Colleagues, we would like to announce that we are welcoming applications for our Summer Schools between August 1 ? 26, 2011. In addition to the well-introduced Summer Schools in * Spoken Sanskrit (Sadananda Das) and * Nepali Intensive (Laxmi Nath Shrestha) we offer in 2011 two new Summer Schools in * Colloquial Tibetan (Jonathan Samuels) and * Manuscriptology (Saraju Rath). For all further information please see: http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/en/summer_schools. The Summer Schools are jointly organised by Professor Birgit Kellner, Cluster of Excellence ?Asia and Europe?, and Professor Axel Michaels, Department of Cultural and Religious History of South Asia (Classical Indology), South Asia Institute. With best wishes J?rg Gengnagel -- Priv.-Doz. Dr. J?rg Gengnagel Heidelberg University Interim Professor (Professurvertretung) Department of Cultural and Religious History of South Asia (Classical Indology) Collaborative Research Center 619 "Dynamics of Ritual" Head of Subproject B5 "Court Ritual in the Jaipur State" Modern South Asian Languages and Literatures www.ritualdynamik.uni-hd.de www.benares.uni-hd.de South Asia Institute Department of Cultural and Religious History of South Asia (Classical Indology) Im Neuenheimer Feld 330 D-69120 Heidelberg phone: +49(0)6221/54-8906 fax: +49(0)6221/54-8841 From r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG Fri Feb 4 20:57:28 2011 From: r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 11 09:57:28 +1300 Subject: CALL FOR EXPRESSION OF INTEREST> BRILL's _Index Buddhicus_ (Classified Bibliography of Buddhist Studies) Message-ID: <161227091409.23782.5025924766203442783.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1605 Lines: 69 Dear Colleagues, BRILL is preparing a classified bibliography of Buddhist Studies, the Index Buddhicus. The Index will describe material ranging from articles, papers and chapters appearing in journals, proceedings and collections, through monographs, editions and theses, to digital resources. All entries will be classified and cross referenced to related material. The index will be available online, and probably also in hard copy. In preparation, we are currently forming a group of editors, including four specialist / area editors. We would like to receive expressions of interest from those with a background in two of these -- admittedly loose -- categories: * Art / Culture / Education / ... * Literature / Texts / ... * Philosophy / Psychology / ... * State / Society / ... * Religious Life / Discipline / Rituals / ... * India / Nepal * Tibet / Central Asia * China / Japan / Korea / ... * `Western' Buddhism: US / UK / ... Once a suitable group has been formed there will be a meeting in Leiden to plan the development of the Index. It is anticipated that BRILL's Index Islamicus will be used as a model: Index Islamicus http://www.brill.nl/indexislamicus Could those interested in possible involvement please send their enquires to me. I'd be happy to provide details and field questions. Richard MAHONEY Best regards, Richard MAHONEY -- Richard MAHONEY - Indica et Buddhica Littledene, Bay Road, OXFORD 7430, NZ PO Box 25, OXFORD 7443 +64 3 312 1699 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org http://indica-et-buddhica.org From athr at LOC.GOV Sat Feb 5 18:25:35 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 11 13:25:35 -0500 Subject: suppliers of India game boards? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091416.23782.6868795663703620877.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 953 Lines: 32 Dear Venetia, Yes, I would appreciate that very much. Thanks, Allen From: venetia ansell [mailto:venetia.ansell at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 11:44 PM To: Thrasher, Allen Cc: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] suppliers of India game boards? Dear Allen, There is a gentleman in Gujarat, Dr Wakanker, who has done much research on traditional Indian games. Would you like me to put you in touch? If carrom boards are of interest, there is at least one manufacturer that I have used in Bangalore. Again I can dig out the details if helpful. Best, Venetia On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 5:58 AM, Thrasher, Allen > wrote: Many thanks to Christopher Vielle and Johannes Schneider for their suggestions. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Asian Division, Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From athr at LOC.GOV Sat Feb 5 18:26:37 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 11 13:26:37 -0500 Subject: suppliers of India game boards? In-Reply-To: <195894d4d77c8895f3@wm-srv.ulb.ac.be> Message-ID: <161227091419.23782.16151422304600578658.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1945 Lines: 51 Dear Jean-Michel, Thank you for the information, which I have forwarded to my inquirer. Allen -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Jean-Michel Delire Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 11:16 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] suppliers of India game boards? Dear Allen, Sorry for the late answer. A friend of mine, passionate about games, provided the following address : Sawantwadi Lacquerwares, The Palace, Sawantwadi, Maharashtra, 416510, tel. (02363)272010, Email Sawlac-swd at yahoo.com The presentation reads : "Workshop and Showroom - In the heritage Palace you will experience the making of the Traditional Ganjifa Cards, Playing cards, Toys, Indian traditional games, etc. If you wish to purchase any of the above items, they are available, etc." I hope this could help. By the way, I am also interested by ancient Indian games. Could Venetia be kind enough to put me also in touch with Dr Wakanker ? Concerning carrom, they are very easy to find in Trivandrum too. Best regards, Jean Michel Delire, Lecturer on "Science and Civilization in India - Sanskrit Texts" at the IHEB, Centre Alta?r for the History of Science (University of Brussels) >Dear Allen, >There is a gentleman in Gujarat, Dr Wakanker, who has done much >research on traditional Indian games. Would you like me to put you in touch? >If carrom boards are of interest, there is at least one manufacturer >that I have used in Bangalore. Again I can dig out the details if helpful. >Best, >Venetia > >On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 5:58 AM, Thrasher, Allen wrote: > >> Many thanks to Christopher Vielle and Johannes Schneider for their >> suggestions. >> >> Allen >> >> >> Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. >> Asian Division, Library of Congress >> Washington, DC 20540-4810 >> The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the >> Library of Congress. >> > > From christoph.emmrich at UTORONTO.CA Sat Feb 5 19:23:17 2011 From: christoph.emmrich at UTORONTO.CA (christoph.emmrich at UTORONTO.CA) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 11 14:23:17 -0500 Subject: 2011 North American Hindu Studies Graduate Student Conference, Toronto Message-ID: <161227091422.23782.4729717641458133374.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2281 Lines: 60 The Department and Centre for the Study of Religion at the University of Toronto Is Pleased to Present A Call for Papers The 2011 North American Hindu Studies Graduate Student Conference September 30th to October 1st, 2011 The Department and Centre for the Study of Religion at the University of Toronto invites paper proposals for its Hindu Studies Graduate Conference. Proposals are welcomed from graduate students engaged in original research in any field related to the study of Hindu traditions (religion, philosophy, anthropology, history, art history, linguistics, sociology, South Asian or diasporic studies, women and gender studies, political science, etc.). This conference will offer a congenial platform for graduate students to present, discuss, and receive feedback on their work from both peers and faculty in related disciplines. Presentations should be limited to twenty minutes. Proposals may be submitted individually or in panels of three or four. FUNDING The conference organizers hope to be able to cover the costs of lodging and food for paper presenters at the conference. However, presenters should seek funding from their home institutions to cover travel costs. DEADLINES AND SUBMISSION INFORMATION Proposals of no more than 300 words should be submitted, along with contact information, paper title, panel title (if applicable), and university affiliation, by Monday, March 1st, 2011. Panel proposals should be accompanied by a brief panel abstract of no more than 250 words. Successful applicants will be notified by March 11th, 2011. Proposals and queries should be sent to hindustudiesgradconference at gmail.com. Posted for Eric Steinschneider by Christoph Emmrich. ---- Christoph Emmrich Assistant Professor, Buddhist Studies Coordinator, Numata Program University of Toronto, UTM http://www.religion.utoronto.ca/people/faculty/christoph-emmrich Department of Historical Studies University of Toronto, Mississauga Room NE117, North Building, 3359 Mississauga Road North Mississauga, ON, L5L 1C6, Canada +905.569.4493 (o), +905.569.4412 (f) Department and Centre for the Study of Religion University of Toronto, 170 St. George Street Jackman Humanities Building, Room 303 Toronto, Ontario M5R 2M8 +416.978.6463 (o), +416.978.1610 (f) From Michael.Williams at POSTGRAD.MANCHESTER.AC.UK Sat Feb 5 16:32:20 2011 From: Michael.Williams at POSTGRAD.MANCHESTER.AC.UK (Michael Williams) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 11 16:32:20 +0000 Subject: Question about Navya-Nyaaya Message-ID: <161227091414.23782.3134894442125921591.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 912 Lines: 11 Dear Indologists, I am working on Vyaasatiirtha's Nyaayaam.rta and its literature from the Maadhva school. Vyaasatiirtha's commentators seem to be using a theory from Navya-Nyaaya which I haven't been able to trace. The question is how to deal with inferences which have multiple saadhyataavacchedakas. According to Daniel Ingalls in his Materials for the Study of NN Logic, Raghunaatha and Gadaadhara developed a way of treating such inferences using vyaasajyav.rtti dharmas and the paryaapti relationship. Unfortunately, Ingalls only develops this point cryptically and briefly in a footnote on p. 77 of that work. This might be a bit obscure, but if it does ring a bell with any Navya-Naiyaayikas out there who have come across a primary or secondary resource which deals with this in more depth, I'd be very grateful if you could point it out. Many thanks, Michael Williams, University of Manchester. From jmdelire at ULB.AC.BE Sat Feb 5 16:16:08 2011 From: jmdelire at ULB.AC.BE (Jean-Michel Delire) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 11 17:16:08 +0100 Subject: suppliers of India game boards? Message-ID: <161227091411.23782.3011659920192213105.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1601 Lines: 40 Dear Allen, Sorry for the late answer. A friend of mine, passionate about games, provided the following address : Sawantwadi Lacquerwares, The Palace, Sawantwadi, Maharashtra, 416510, tel. (02363)272010, Email Sawlac-swd at yahoo.com The presentation reads : "Workshop and Showroom - In the heritage Palace you will experience the making of the Traditional Ganjifa Cards, Playing cards, Toys, Indian traditional games, etc. If you wish to purchase any of the above items, they are available, etc." I hope this could help. By the way, I am also interested by ancient Indian games. Could Venetia be kind enough to put me also in touch with Dr Wakanker ? Concerning carrom, they are very easy to find in Trivandrum too. Best regards, Jean Michel Delire, Lecturer on "Science and Civilization in India - Sanskrit Texts" at the IHEB, Centre Alta?r for the History of Science (University of Brussels) >Dear Allen, >There is a gentleman in Gujarat, Dr Wakanker, who has done much research on >traditional Indian games. Would you like me to put you in touch? >If carrom boards are of interest, there is at least one manufacturer that I >have used in Bangalore. Again I can dig out the details if helpful. >Best, >Venetia > >On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 5:58 AM, Thrasher, Allen wrote: > >> Many thanks to Christopher Vielle and Johannes Schneider for their >> suggestions. >> >> Allen >> >> >> Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. >> Asian Division, Library of Congress >> Washington, DC 20540-4810 >> The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of >> Congress. >> > > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Feb 6 07:45:13 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 11 08:45:13 +0100 Subject: temporary lectureship, SA History since 1800, Edinburgh Message-ID: <161227091424.23782.4443431434210652677.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 194 Lines: 8 *Temporary Lectureship in South Asian History * *School of History, Classics and Archaeology* College of Humanities and Social Science University of Edinburgh From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Feb 9 17:12:31 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 11 18:12:31 +0100 Subject: Kane at archive.org Message-ID: <161227091427.23782.15239814332433605797.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 261 Lines: 9 Kane's HoDS has appeared digitized at the DLI, and thence all the volumes of the 1st edition have appeared at archive.org as PDF files with OCR'ed text ( here ). DW From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Feb 10 12:48:34 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 11 13:48:34 +0100 Subject: MSS seminar, Nagpur Message-ID: <161227091430.23782.5595147820812974906.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 466 Lines: 11 Seminar on manuscripts[NB website has a popup] Times of India NAGPUR: The manuscripts resource centre of Kavi Kulguru Kalidas *Sanskrit*University, Ramtek, has organised a one-day manuscript awareness programme from 10 *... * From adheesh1 at GMAIL.COM Thu Feb 10 22:34:18 2011 From: adheesh1 at GMAIL.COM (Adheesh Sathaye) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 11 14:34:18 -0800 Subject: Visiting Faculty Position in Sanskrit Literature at University of British Columbia Message-ID: <161227091433.23782.15488415060237843852.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2037 Lines: 40 Dear colleagues, Please see advertisement below, and please forward to anyone who may be interested. We will begin processing applications March 15th. best regards, Adheesh ---- VISITING FACULTY OR POSTDOCTORAL TEACHING FELLOW IN SANSKRIT LITERATURE The Department of Asian Studies at the University of British Columbia invites applications for a Visiting Faculty or Postdoctoral Teaching Fellow in Sanskrit Literature for the 2011-2012 academic year. Applicants with a Ph. D. in a relevant field are encouraged to apply; ABDs nearing completion will also be considered. The successful candidate will be expected to teach a year-long reading course in advanced Sanskrit, and two undergraduate courses in premodern South Asian culture. Expertise in the Sanskrit language is required, and teaching experience in premodern South Asian literature is desirable. The term of appointment will be July 1, 2011 to June 30, 2012. Applicants should provide a cover letter identifying teaching and research interests, a current c.v., a sample of scholarly writing, and a teaching portfolio (if applicable). Applicants should also arrange for three letters of recommendation to be sent under separate cover to: Chair, Sanskrit Postdoc Search Committee, Asian Studies, Asian Centre, 1871 West Mall, The University of British Columbia, Vancouver, BC, V6T 1Z2, Canada. Review of applications will begin on March 15, 2011 and will continue until the position is filled. For more information on the department, visit www.asia.ubc.ca. This appointment is subject to final budgetary approval. UBC hires on the basis of merit and is committed to employment equity. All qualified persons are encouraged to apply; however, Canadians and permanent residents of Canada will be given priority. ---- ---- Dr. Adheesh Sathaye Department of Asian Studies University of British Columbia 408 Asian Centre 1871 West Mall Vancouver, BC V6T 1Z2 ? Canada 604.822.5188 adheesh at interchange.ubc.ca http://www.ubcsanskrit.ca http://www.asianfolklore.ca From adheesh1 at GMAIL.COM Thu Feb 10 22:34:41 2011 From: adheesh1 at GMAIL.COM (Adheesh Sathaye) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 11 14:34:41 -0800 Subject: Sanskrit & Hindi-Urdu Lecturer Position at University of British Columbia Message-ID: <161227091435.23782.13202640514082831926.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2025 Lines: 35 Dear colleagues, Please see advertisement below, and please forward to anyone who may be interested. We will begin processing applications March 15th. best regards, Adheesh ---- LECTURER IN HINDI-URDU & SANSKRIT LANGUAGES The University of British Columbia is accepting applications for one renewable 12-month lecturer position in Hindi-Urdu & Sanskrit languages, commencing July 1, 2011. The successful applicant will be asked to teach 24 credits (4 year-long courses) of Hindi and Sanskrit language courses at all levels. Depending on the applicant's area of expertise, the 24 credit teaching load might include undergraduate lecture courses on South Asian culture, religion, literature or film. Applicants are expected to have a spoken and written command of Hindi, as well as expertise in Sanskrit. Knowledge of Urdu is also desirable. Applicants should possess a Master?s degree in a relevant field, and teaching experience in North America at college/university level; strong preference will be given for applicants with training in Applied Linguistics or Language Education. Please send applications, including a letter of interest, Curriculum Vitae, and three names of reference to: Hindi-Urdu/Sanskrit Lecturer Search Committee, Department of Asian Studies, University of British Columbia, 1871 West Mall, Vancouver, BC Canada V6T-1Z2. Review of applications will begin on March 15, 2011 and will continue until the position is filled. This position is subject to final budgetary approval. UBC hires on the basis of merit and is committed to employment equity. We encourage all qualified persons to apply. However, Canadians and permanent residents of Canada will be given priority. For information about the Department, please visit www.asia.ubc.ca. ---- ---- Dr. Adheesh Sathaye Department of Asian Studies University of British Columbia 408 Asian Centre 1871 West Mall Vancouver, BC V6T 1Z2 ? Canada 604.822.5188 adheesh at interchange.ubc.ca http://www.ubcsanskrit.ca http://www.asianfolklore.ca From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Fri Feb 11 09:14:50 2011 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 11 09:14:50 +0000 Subject: raajaku.tii Message-ID: <161227091438.23782.17080075442845361831.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1216 Lines: 13 Dear colleagues, Having failed to obtain any leads by consulting some individual colleagues, I now wish to consult you collectively about the term raajaku.tii, which I find in a few Cambodian inscriptions: K. 95, st. XXXIX.= K. 309, st. XXXIX = K.362, st. XXXVI [all three inscriptions date to 811 "saka]?raajaku.tyantare raajadvijaatin.rpasuunava.hvi"seyur atra nirddo.san ta evaabhara.naanvitaa.h //? K. 279 XCVIII = K. 290, st. XCVI = K. 701, st. XCVIII [all three inscriptions date to the 10th c. CE]dvau lekhakau raajaku.tiipaalau pustakarak.si.nautaambuulikau ca paaniiyahaarau .sa.t pattrakaarakaa.h // This raajaku.tii may correspond to the vra.h ku.ti seen in some contemporary khmer-language inscriptions, although the term vra.h is ambiguous (it can mean both 'king' and 'god'). I also find the expression ku.ti haji,?which literally means 'king's?ku.ti', in an Old Malay inscription of Northern Sumatra (date ca. 10-11th c. CE).?Can anyone furnish comparative data from South Asia, or elsewhere, which may throw light on what these ancient Khmers and ancient Malays had in mind when speaking about a 'king's ku.ti/ii'? Many thanks in advance. Best wishes, Arlo Griffiths (EFEO/Jakarta) From Joerg.Gengnagel at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Fri Feb 11 19:00:09 2011 From: Joerg.Gengnagel at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Joerg Gengnagel) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 11 20:00:09 +0100 Subject: Call for Papers, "Religions, Science and Technology" March 2012 Message-ID: <161227091440.23782.10720360074257308046.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2019 Lines: 50 Dear colleagues, I was asked by Istv?n Keul to forward the following call for papers to the list. Best Joerg Gengnagel Call for Papers International Association for the History of Religions Special Conference 2012 Religions, Science and Technology in Cultural Contexts: Dynamics of Change Venue: NTNU-The Norwegian University of Science and Technology 1-3 March 2012 In current public and academic debates, the complex relationships between ?religion? and ?science? tend to be reduced into one between monolithic entities. By exploring historical and contemporary interactions between religions, science and technology, a more complex understanding may be reached of the areas and ways in which they overlap, correspond, challenge and conflict with each other. This conference seeks to explore how religions, science and technology interact and generate change (progressive, reactive, regressive), particularly in relation to such issues as the environment and climate change; the economy; welfare; life expectancy; popular representation; and sexual equality. Of particular interest are explorations of dynamic relationships between worldviews/cosmologies, socio-cultural practices and technologies; and of ?the politics of change?, i.e. how different actors seek to convince the public of the benefits of their own approaches or of the detriment of ?the others? approaches. The conference is organized by the Department of Archaeology and Religious Studies of the Norwegian University of Science and Technology in Trondheim. Registration fee until 1 December 2011 is 250 EUR, which includes conference materials, lunches and refreshments. There will also be bursaries for participants from lower income countries. Abstract of 200 words and affiliation details should be submitted by 1st August 2011. For submitting your abstracts and for any type of inquiries, you are welcome to contact the Conference secretary, Filip Ivanovic (filip.ivanovic at ntnu.no). From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Sun Feb 13 07:32:55 2011 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 11 07:32:55 +0000 Subject: raajaku.tii Message-ID: <161227091443.23782.3931472270221960385.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4367 Lines: 66 Thanks to George Cardona, Artur Karp, John William Nemec, Asko Parpola, Judit T?rzs?k and Vincent Eltschinger for their responses. I should have made it clear that it was not so much the element ku.tii which bothered me, as I tacitly assumed there to be a connection with the Buddhist gandhaku.tii 'Perfume Chamber' (the chamber for the principal Buddha resident in a monastery) --- at least the monumental context of the Sumatran ku.ti haji is certainly Buddhist. Vincent Eltschinger's reference to Schopen's article "The Buddha as an Owner of Property ..." has now provided me with an extensive collection of epigraphical and other textual references to the gandhaku.tii, and some of these allow me to formulate a working hypothesis concerning the 'royal chamber'. From these three sealings cited by Schopen (p. 269 and 284 of the reprint), - "sriinaalandaayaa.m "sriibaalaadityagandhaku.diivaarikabhik.suu.naa.m,- "sriinaa[landaayaa.m "srii?]dharmapaaladevagandhaku.tiivaarikabhik.suu.naa.m,- "sriidevapaalagandhaku.tyaa.m, I infer that gandhaku.tiis were among those parts of vihaaras that could become the object of personal donations/foundations by kings (in these cases Baalaaditya and Devapaaladeva). And on this basis one might hypothesize that raajaku.tii = ku.ti haji may have meant raajagandhaku.tii. At least for ku.ti haji in the North Sumatran inscription I see no immediate objections to this hypothesis, and it is at least a funny coincidence that two of these sealings mention Devapaaladeva, about whose diplomatic associations with Mahaaraaja Baalaputradeva of Suvar.nadviipa (which probably corresponded to Southern Sumatra) we know from one of his copper-plates. The idea that raajaku.tii had a specifically Buddhist connotation may not work well in the context of the Khmer inscriptions, which seem rather to deal with brahmanical foundations. I'll have to keep pondering the problem. By the way, in the light of some of Schopen's other articles in the same volume of Collected Papers, esp. the one on Burial as sanctos, all of this reminds me of the thread opened by Petra Kieffer-P?lz last year, about the word ku.tikaa (in a Pali text) in the context of the deposition of bones and ashes.? Thanks again. Arlo Griffiths (EFEO/Jakarta) ---------------------------------------- > Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 13:12:30 +0100 > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] raajaku.tii > From: veltsch at oeaw.ac.at > To: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM > > Dear Arlo, > There might well be no connection at all, but your ku.tii reminds me of > the Buddhist monasteries' (gandha)ku.tii. The term and what it refers to > have been discussed quite extensively by Gregory Schopen in an article > entitled "The Buddha as an Owner of Property and Permanent Resident in > Medieval Indian Monasteries" (JIP 18 1990, pp. 181-217 = Schopen: Bones, > Stones, and Buddhist Monks. Collected Papers on the Archaeology, > Epigraphy, and Texts of Monastic Buddhism in India, Honolulu, HUP, pp > 258-289). > Sorry for the probably misleading information! > Hope you're fine, > Best, > Vincent > > > >> Dear colleagues, >> Having failed to obtain any leads by consulting some individual >> colleagues, I now wish to consult you collectively about the term >> raajaku.tii, which I find in a few Cambodian inscriptions: >> K. 95, st. XXXIX.= K. 309, st. XXXIX = K.362, st. XXXVI [all three >> inscriptions date to 811 "saka] raajaku.tyantare >> raajadvijaatin.rpasuunava.hvi"seyur atra nirddo.san ta >> evaabhara.naanvitaa.h // >> >> K. 279 XCVIII = K. 290, st. XCVI = K. 701, st. XCVIII [all three >> inscriptions date to the 10th c. CE]dvau lekhakau raajaku.tiipaalau >> pustakarak.si.nautaambuulikau ca paaniiyahaarau .sa.t pattrakaarakaa.h // >> >> This raajaku.tii may correspond to the vra.h ku.ti seen in some >> contemporary khmer-language inscriptions, although the term vra.h is >> ambiguous (it can mean both 'king' and 'god'). I also find the expression >> ku.ti haji, which literally means 'king's ku.ti', in an Old Malay >> inscription of Northern Sumatra (date ca. 10-11th c. CE). Can anyone >> furnish comparative data from South Asia, or elsewhere, which may throw >> light on what these ancient Khmers and ancient Malays had in mind when >> speaking about a 'king's ku.ti/ii'? >> Many thanks in advance. Best wishes, >> Arlo Griffiths (EFEO/Jakarta) >> > > From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Mon Feb 14 00:48:32 2011 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 11 19:48:32 -0500 Subject: What is the writing on the attached image? Message-ID: <161227091450.23782.10191492487872330729.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 613 Lines: 17 I have attached an image of the Indian postal stamp showing the picture of P??ini. Does the vertical writing to the left of P??ini mean anything? Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Panini-stamp.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 142527 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET Mon Feb 14 01:50:51 2011 From: vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 11 20:50:51 -0500 Subject: What is the writing on the attached image? Message-ID: <161227091457.23782.1001091874425103382.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 376 Lines: 18 Madhav, They appear to be a version of the Brahmi numerals, 1 through 9. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmi_numeral best, Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deshpande, Madhav" >I have attached an image of the Indian postal stamp showing the picture of >P??ini. Does the vertical writing to the left of P??ini mean anything? > > Madhav From hhhock at ILLINOIS.EDU Mon Feb 14 03:16:19 2011 From: hhhock at ILLINOIS.EDU (Hans Henrich Hock) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 11 21:16:19 -0600 Subject: FW: [INDOLOGY] What is the writing on the attached image? In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D71B1248E1F1@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227091466.23782.17548607856810074881.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1050 Lines: 39 ... or in having P??ini *write* Hans Henrich Hock On 13 Feb 2011, at 20:59, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: > Thanks to all those who have pointed out that the characters on the > postage stamp of Panini represent Brahmi numerals 1-9. I wonder > what the designer of the stamp had in his mind in putting these > numerals on the stamp. Best, > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA > ________________________________________ > From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu [mkapstei at uchicago.edu] > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 8:55 PM > To: Deshpande, Madhav > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] What is the writing on the attached image? > > Hi Madhav, > > They show the Brahmi numerals. > > best, > Matthew > > Matthew T. Kapstein > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies > The University of Chicago Divinity School > Directeur d'?tudes > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From andrew.nicholson at STONYBROOK.EDU Mon Feb 14 02:50:46 2011 From: andrew.nicholson at STONYBROOK.EDU (Andrew Nicholson) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 11 21:50:46 -0500 Subject: Mimamsa quotation? Message-ID: <161227091460.23782.4906285216338042472.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 661 Lines: 25 Dear Indologists, Can someone please point me to the source of the following quotation: viSayo vizayaz caiva pUrvapakSas tathottaram / nirNayaz ceti paJcAGgaM zAstre 'dhikaraNaM smRtam // There is a similar sloka in Khandadeva's Bhattadipika (comm. on Jaimini 1.2.7), but I have not found the source of this precise quote from the pandit I was working with. Other versions of the sloka would also be welcome. Thanks! Andrew ______________________________________________ Andrew J. Nicholson Assistant Professor Department of Asian and Asian American Studies Stony Brook University Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343 USA Tel: (631) 632-4030 Fax: (631) 632-4098 From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Mon Feb 14 02:59:17 2011 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 11 21:59:17 -0500 Subject: FW: [INDOLOGY] What is the writing on the attached image? In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D71B1248E1F0@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227091463.23782.17204201206935200354.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 886 Lines: 29 Thanks to all those who have pointed out that the characters on the postage stamp of Panini represent Brahmi numerals 1-9. I wonder what the designer of the stamp had in his mind in putting these numerals on the stamp. Best, Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA ________________________________________ From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu [mkapstei at uchicago.edu] Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 8:55 PM To: Deshpande, Madhav Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] What is the writing on the attached image? Hi Madhav, They show the Brahmi numerals. best, Matthew Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From theodor at RESEARCH.HAIFA.AC.IL Mon Feb 14 01:17:36 2011 From: theodor at RESEARCH.HAIFA.AC.IL (Ithamar Theodor) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 11 03:17:36 +0200 Subject: Is the Journal of Vaishnava Studies still alive? Message-ID: <161227091454.23782.3683468550162894720.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1306 Lines: 58 Dear McComas, To the best of my knowledge they are active; here are two e-mail addresses of the founding editor, Steven Rosen: satchmo868 at aol.com rosen108 at mac.com Very best, Ithamar --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ithamar Theodor, Ph.D Visiting Scholar - The Professorship in Indian Religions and Culture Department of Religious and Cultural Studies The Chinese University of Hong Kong theodor at orange.net.il ----- Original Message ----- From: "McComas Taylor" To: Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 1:40 AM Subject: [INDOLOGY] Is the Journal of Vaishnava Studies still alive? Dear Colleagues Is the Journal of Vaiṣṇava Studies still alive? Would any of you good folk have a functioning email address for the editor Steven J. Rosen (Satyaraja Dasa)? Thanks in advance McComas __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5870 (20110213) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This message was sent using IMP, the Webmail Program of Haifa University From slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU Mon Feb 14 12:15:01 2011 From: slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU (Steven Lindquist) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 11 06:15:01 -0600 Subject: FW: [INDOLOGY] What is the writing on the attached image? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091476.23782.12557555300690077855.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2407 Lines: 69 Thanks for the image, Madhav. Seems to me a conflation of all things "sciency" -- (i.e., linguistics, writing, math (as numbers), astrology). An ahistorical valorization of "ancient wisdom," I suppose. >From a practical point of view: the numbers and sun serve to frame the central image (the numbers thematically next to other numbers on one side -- 5 Rs and year; bh?rat/India, sw?stika, sun, and name on the other side). The sun, the manuscripts on the ground, and bh?rat/India especially keeps the overall image from being "left heavy". More perfect symmetry might put "India" further down (or P??ini himself more towards the center), but visually that might look overly contrived. -- Steven Lindquist, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Religious Studies Southern Methodist University Homepage: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui -- On Feb 14, 2011, at 5:19 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Indeed ! > > The diagram in the background, behind the writing Panini, has the general > look as a jyoti?a j?taka or horoscope chart, but with the Br?hm? numerals in > the 12 positions, instead of the zodiac. And what's that sun doing in the > top right corner? > > Dominik > > On 14 February 2011 04:16, Hans Henrich Hock wrote: > >> ... or in having P??ini *write* >> >> Hans Henrich Hock >> >> >> >> On 13 Feb 2011, at 20:59, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: >> >> Thanks to all those who have pointed out that the characters on the >>> postage stamp of Panini represent Brahmi numerals 1-9. I wonder what the >>> designer of the stamp had in his mind in putting these numerals on the >>> stamp. Best, >>> >>> Madhav M. Deshpande >>> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >>> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >>> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >>> The University of Michigan >>> Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu [mkapstei at uchicago.edu] >>> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 8:55 PM >>> To: Deshpande, Madhav >>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] What is the writing on the attached image? >>> >>> Hi Madhav, >>> >>> They show the Brahmi numerals. >>> >>> best, >>> Matthew >>> >>> Matthew T. Kapstein >>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies >>> The University of Chicago Divinity School >>> Directeur d'?tudes >>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris >>> >> From hwtull at MSN.COM Mon Feb 14 13:42:56 2011 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 11 08:42:56 -0500 Subject: FW: [INDOLOGY] What is the writing on the attached image? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091486.23782.10918225750608934186.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1842 Lines: 67 ?A quick web search shows that there is at least one author (B. Indraji, 1876, is generally cited) who proposed that Panini invented the Brahmi system of writing numerals. Herman Tull Princeton, NJ -----Original Message----- From: Dominik Wujastyk Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 6:19 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] FW: [INDOLOGY] What is the writing on the attached image? Indeed ! The diagram in the background, behind the writing Panini, has the general look as a jyoti?a j?taka or horoscope chart, but with the Br?hm? numerals in the 12 positions, instead of the zodiac. And what's that sun doing in the top right corner? Dominik On 14 February 2011 04:16, Hans Henrich Hock wrote: > ... or in having P??ini *write* > > Hans Henrich Hock > > > > On 13 Feb 2011, at 20:59, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: > > Thanks to all those who have pointed out that the characters on the >> postage stamp of Panini represent Brahmi numerals 1-9. I wonder what the >> designer of the stamp had in his mind in putting these numerals on the >> stamp. Best, >> >> Madhav M. Deshpande >> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >> The University of Michigan >> Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA >> ________________________________________ >> From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu [mkapstei at uchicago.edu] >> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 8:55 PM >> To: Deshpande, Madhav >> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] What is the writing on the attached image? >> >> Hi Madhav, >> >> They show the Brahmi numerals. >> >> best, >> Matthew >> >> Matthew T. Kapstein >> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies >> The University of Chicago Divinity School >> Directeur d'?tudes >> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris >> > From info at BARKHUIS.NL Mon Feb 14 07:46:12 2011 From: info at BARKHUIS.NL (Roelf Barkhuis) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 11 08:46:12 +0100 Subject: What is the writing on the attached image? In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D71B1248E1EE@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227091469.23782.3763286009319160311.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 806 Lines: 36 Perhaps the digits 1 to 9? Best wishes, Roelf Barkhuis Barkhuis Zuurstukken 37 9761 KP Eelde the Netherlands tel 0031 50 3080936 fax 0031 50 3080934 info at barkhuis.nl www.barkhuis.nl -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens Deshpande, Madhav Verzonden: maandag 14 februari 2011 1:49 Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] What is the writing on the attached image? I have attached an image of the Indian postal stamp showing the picture of P??ini. Does the vertical writing to the left of P??ini mean anything? Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Mon Feb 14 14:06:36 2011 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 11 09:06:36 -0500 Subject: What is the writing on the attached image? Message-ID: <161227091489.23782.16573986746842540209.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2415 Lines: 71 Hi Dominik, "What is that sun doing in the top right corner?" The sun makes perfect sense, as Pata?jali describes P??ini as pr??mukha? upavi?ya s?tr??i pra?ayati sma. However, in Pata?jali's description of P??ini composing his s?tras with great effort (mahat? yatnena), he is sitting facing the east, with the sacred darbha grass in his hand (darbha-pavitra-p??i), and not a pen to write down his rules. So, the artist has tried to save P??ini from the charge of illiteracy! Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk [wujastyk at GMAIL.COM] Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 6:19 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] FW: [INDOLOGY] What is the writing on the attached image? Indeed ! The diagram in the background, behind the writing Panini, has the general look as a jyoti?a j?taka or horoscope chart, but with the Br?hm? numerals in the 12 positions, instead of the zodiac. And what's that sun doing in the top right corner? Dominik On 14 February 2011 04:16, Hans Henrich Hock wrote: > ... or in having P??ini *write* > > Hans Henrich Hock > > > > On 13 Feb 2011, at 20:59, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: > > Thanks to all those who have pointed out that the characters on the >> postage stamp of Panini represent Brahmi numerals 1-9. I wonder what the >> designer of the stamp had in his mind in putting these numerals on the >> stamp. Best, >> >> Madhav M. Deshpande >> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >> The University of Michigan >> Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA >> ________________________________________ >> From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu [mkapstei at uchicago.edu] >> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 8:55 PM >> To: Deshpande, Madhav >> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] What is the writing on the attached image? >> >> Hi Madhav, >> >> They show the Brahmi numerals. >> >> best, >> Matthew >> >> Matthew T. Kapstein >> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies >> The University of Chicago Divinity School >> Directeur d'?tudes >> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris >> > From McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Sun Feb 13 23:40:16 2011 From: McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 11 10:40:16 +1100 Subject: Is the Journal of Vaishnava Studies still alive? Message-ID: <161227091445.23782.18355082693522806406.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 206 Lines: 10 Dear Colleagues Is the Journal of Vai??ava Studies still alive? Would any of you good folk have a functioning email address for the editor Steven J. Rosen (Satyaraja Dasa)? Thanks in advance McComas From rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Mon Feb 14 19:10:46 2011 From: rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Richard Salomon) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 11 11:10:46 -0800 Subject: What is the writing on the attached image? Message-ID: <161227091493.23782.149446729713174505.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 902 Lines: 34 A very strange choice of text for this stamp! By the way, I have a small collection of Indian stamps with Sanskrit texts or Sanskrit-literature related themes (e.g., Gilgit manuscripts). There are quite a few. I could provide a list if anyone is interested. Rich Salomon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Lusthaus" To: Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] What is the writing on the attached image? > Madhav, > > They appear to be a version of the Brahmi numerals, 1 through 9. > See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmi_numeral > > best, > Dan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Deshpande, Madhav" > >>I have attached an image of the Indian postal stamp showing the picture of >>P??ini. Does the vertical writing to the left of P??ini mean anything? >> >> Madhav > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Feb 14 11:19:31 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 11 12:19:31 +0100 Subject: FW: [INDOLOGY] What is the writing on the attached image? In-Reply-To: <098078EA-8C6B-4A46-A093-BD18FD14C7BA@illinois.edu> Message-ID: <161227091473.23782.15172184082954441331.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1432 Lines: 53 Indeed ! The diagram in the background, behind the writing Panini, has the general look as a jyoti?a j?taka or horoscope chart, but with the Br?hm? numerals in the 12 positions, instead of the zodiac. And what's that sun doing in the top right corner? Dominik On 14 February 2011 04:16, Hans Henrich Hock wrote: > ... or in having P??ini *write* > > Hans Henrich Hock > > > > On 13 Feb 2011, at 20:59, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: > > Thanks to all those who have pointed out that the characters on the >> postage stamp of Panini represent Brahmi numerals 1-9. I wonder what the >> designer of the stamp had in his mind in putting these numerals on the >> stamp. Best, >> >> Madhav M. Deshpande >> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >> The University of Michigan >> Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA >> ________________________________________ >> From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu [mkapstei at uchicago.edu] >> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 8:55 PM >> To: Deshpande, Madhav >> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] What is the writing on the attached image? >> >> Hi Madhav, >> >> They show the Brahmi numerals. >> >> best, >> Matthew >> >> Matthew T. Kapstein >> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies >> The University of Chicago Divinity School >> Directeur d'?tudes >> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris >> > From Gerard.Huet at INRIA.FR Mon Feb 14 12:25:01 2011 From: Gerard.Huet at INRIA.FR (=?utf-8?Q?G=C3=A9rard_Huet?=) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 11 13:25:01 +0100 Subject: FW: [INDOLOGY] What is the writing on the attached image? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091479.23782.7666443434221850733.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1668 Lines: 58 The diagram behind has 8 sections, not 12. I think it is meant to evoke the 8 sections of A.s.taadyaayii. GH Le 14 f?vr. 2011 ? 12:19, Dominik Wujastyk a ?crit : > Indeed ! > > The diagram in the background, behind the writing Panini, has the general > look as a jyoti?a j?taka or horoscope chart, but with the Br?hm? numerals in > the 12 positions, instead of the zodiac. And what's that sun doing in the > top right corner? > > Dominik > > On 14 February 2011 04:16, Hans Henrich Hock wrote: > >> ... or in having P??ini *write* >> >> Hans Henrich Hock >> >> >> >> On 13 Feb 2011, at 20:59, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: >> >> Thanks to all those who have pointed out that the characters on the >>> postage stamp of Panini represent Brahmi numerals 1-9. I wonder what the >>> designer of the stamp had in his mind in putting these numerals on the >>> stamp. Best, >>> >>> Madhav M. Deshpande >>> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >>> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >>> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >>> The University of Michigan >>> Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu [mkapstei at uchicago.edu] >>> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 8:55 PM >>> To: Deshpande, Madhav >>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] What is the writing on the attached image? >>> >>> Hi Madhav, >>> >>> They show the Brahmi numerals. >>> >>> best, >>> Matthew >>> >>> Matthew T. Kapstein >>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies >>> The University of Chicago Divinity School >>> Directeur d'?tudes >>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris >>> >> From dimitrov at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE Mon Feb 14 13:00:05 2011 From: dimitrov at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE (Dragomir Dimitrov) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 11 14:00:05 +0100 Subject: What is the writing on the attached image? In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D71B1248E1EE@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227091482.23782.15271912442274689214.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 739 Lines: 31 As it seems, the P??ini stamp was issued on August 30, 2004: http://www.pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=3583 It is listed on the website of the India Post: http://www.indiapost.gov.in/Netscape/Stamps2004.html Perhaps the people whose addresses are given at the bottom of the second webpage will be able to give more information about the design(er) of the stamp. Best, D.D. ________________________________________ Dr. Dragomir Dimitrov Indologie und Tibetologie Philipps-Universit?t Marburg Deutschhausstr. 12 35032 Marburg Germany Tel.: +49 6421 28 24640, +49 178 9190340 E-mail: dimitrov at staff.uni-marburg.de http://www.uni-marburg.de/indologie ________________________________________ From rpg at CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU Tue Feb 15 20:20:26 2011 From: rpg at CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU (Robert Goldman) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 11 12:20:26 -0800 Subject: An Interesting Translation of the Adhy=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81tma_R_=C4=81m=C4=81ya=E1=B9=87a?= Message-ID: <161227091499.23782.16129959922318402665.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1876 Lines: 54 Dear Colleagues, A local gentleman, a California winemaker by profession, visited me today to ask me about a book in his possession that had belonged to his late grandfather. Upon inspection I found it to be a two volume set consisting of a handwritten English translation of the Adhy?tma R?m?ya?a with an introduction by one Anand Ghan who describes himself as "A Member of the College of Brahmins at Benares" and who claims that he translated the text from "Sanscrit into Persian" and "Again translated from the Persian into English". It is dated 1804 and appears to have been purchased in India, perhaps by the grandfather for Rs. 8. The book is in quite good condition. The handwriting is quite clear and the English excellent. The owner was reluctant to leave the book with me but I was able to take two images from it that I snapped with my mobile phone. One is of the title page of the first volume and one is from a randomly opened page to show what the text itself looks like. I would be interested to know if any of you know anything about Pt. Ghan or the history of his double translation. Best wishes. Dr. R. P. Goldman Professor of Sanskrit Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540 The University of California at Berkeley Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 Tel: 510-642-4089 Fax: 510-642-2409 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AdhyatmaRamayana.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 121809 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Adhyatma2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 133901 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rpg at CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU Tue Feb 15 20:36:05 2011 From: rpg at CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU (Robert Goldman) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 11 12:36:05 -0800 Subject: Adhy=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81tma_R=C4=81m=C4=81ya=E1=B9=87a?= In-Reply-To: <515EF0771DDF4143824919A96D6B6321@D3QMPYK1> Message-ID: <161227091508.23782.15841152000324849945.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1922 Lines: 50 Dear Colleagues, (I hope that this comes through better than y past posting.) A local gentleman, a California winemaker by profession, visited me today to ask me about a book in his possession that had belonged to his late grandfather. Upon inspection I found it to be a two volume set consisting of a handwritten English translation of the Adhy?tma R?m?ya?a with an introduction by one Anand Ghan who describes himself as "A Member of the College of Brahmins at Benares" and who claims that he translated the text from "Sanscrit into Persian" and "Again translated from the Persian into English". It is dated 1804 and appears to have been purchased in India, perhaps by the grandfather for Rs. 8. The book is in quite good condition. The handwriting is quite clear and the English excellent. The owner was reluctant to leave the book with me but I was able to take two images from it that I snapped with my mobile phone. One is of the title page of the first volume and one is from a randomly opened page to show what the text itself looks like. I would be interested to know if any of you know anything about Pt. Ghan or the history of his double translation. Dr. R. P. Goldman Professor of Sanskrit Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540 The University of California at Berkeley Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 Tel: 510-642-4089 Fax: 510-642-2409 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AdhyatmaRamayana.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 121809 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Adhyatma2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 133901 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkirk at SPRO.NET Tue Feb 15 21:11:45 2011 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 11 14:11:45 -0700 Subject: FW: [INDOLOGY] Adhy=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81tma_R=C4=81m=C4=81ya=E1=B9=87a?= Message-ID: <161227091518.23782.741689393396193769.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2196 Lines: 44 I rotated the cover shot (27kb) and lightened it up a bit for better viewing. JK -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Robert Goldman Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 1:36 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Adhy?tma R?m?ya?a Dear Colleagues, (I hope that this comes through better than y past posting.) A local gentleman, a California winemaker by profession, visited me today to ask me about a book in his possession that had belonged to his late grandfather. Upon inspection I found it to be a two volume set consisting of a handwritten English translation of the Adhy?tma R?m?ya?a with an introduction by one Anand Ghan who describes himself as "A Member of the College of Brahmins at Benares" and who claims that he translated the text from "Sanscrit into Persian" and "Again translated from the Persian into English". It is dated 1804 and appears to have been purchased in India, perhaps by the grandfather for Rs. 8. The book is in quite good condition. The handwriting is quite clear and the English excellent. The owner was reluctant to leave the book with me but I was able to take two images from it that I snapped with my mobile phone. One is of the title page of the first volume and one is from a randomly opened page to show what the text itself looks like. I would be interested to know if any of you know anything about Pt. Ghan or the history of his double translation. Dr. R. P. Goldman Professor of Sanskrit Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540 The University of California at Berkeley Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 Tel: 510-642-4089 Fax: 510-642-2409 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AdhyatmaRamayana.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 27739 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Adhyatma2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 133901 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rpg at CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU Tue Feb 15 22:48:21 2011 From: rpg at CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU (Robert Goldman) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 11 14:48:21 -0800 Subject: Adhy=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81tma_R=C4=81m=C4=81ya=E1=B9=87?= a In-Reply-To: <1060858E-7117-4BB3-BBF0-F5C0D72D849B@libero.it> Message-ID: <161227091532.23782.7641314604434074573.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3053 Lines: 102 Dear Dr. D'Onofrio, Thank you for this reference. This would indeed very likely be the author in question. I should perhaps have noted that in his preface to the translation he describes himself as having come from "Dehly" but has having spent much time in V????van. Dr. R. P. Goldman Professor of Sanskrit Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540 The University of California at Berkeley Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 Tel: 510-642-4089 Fax: 510-642-2409 On Feb 15, 2011, at 2:09 PM, Svevo D'Onofrio wrote: > Dear colleague, > > Anandaghan "Khwush" was a poet who hailed from "among the > intellectuals of Brindaban" (quoted by Rajeev Kinra, Infantilizing > Baba Dara, "Journal of Persianate Studies" 2 (2009), p. 174). > He was the author of several Persian works, many of which are > mentioned in Hermann Eth?'s Catalogue of Persian Manuscripts in the > Library of the India Office, London 1903-37 (nos. 1725, 1959, 1962, > 2905, 2906, 2926). These (possibly) include Persian translations of > the Gayamahatmya, Bhagavadgita, Kashikhanda and Ramayana. > > Best, > > Svevo D'Onofrio > > PhD, Research Fellow > Ruhr-Universit?t Bochum > K?te Hamburger Kolleg > "Dynamics in the History of Religions between Asia and Europe" > SH 1/176 > Universit?tsstra?e 150 > 44801 Bochum (Germany) > Tel. +49 234 32-22955 > > >> >> >> >> >> >> Il giorno 15/feb/2011, alle ore 21.36, Robert Goldman ha scritto: >> >>> Dear Colleagues, (I hope that this comes through better than y >>> past posting.) >>> >>> A local gentleman, a California winemaker by profession, visited >>> me today to ask me about a book in his possession that had >>> belonged to his late grandfather. Upon inspection I found it to >>> be a two volume set consisting of a handwritten English >>> translation of the Adhy?tma R?m?ya?a with an introduction by >>> one Anand Ghan who describes himself as "A Member of the College >>> of Brahmins at Benares" and who claims that he translated the text >>> from "Sanscrit into Persian" and "Again translated from the >>> Persian into English". It is dated 1804 and appears to have been >>> purchased in India, perhaps by the grandfather for Rs. 8. >>> >>> The book is in quite good condition. The handwriting is quite >>> clear and the English excellent. >>> >>> The owner was reluctant to leave the book with me but I was able >>> to take two images from it that I snapped with my mobile phone. >>> One is of the title page of the first volume and one is from a >>> randomly opened page to show what the text itself looks like. >>> >>> I would be interested to know if any of you know anything about >>> Pt. Ghan or the history of his double translation. >>> Dr. R. P. Goldman >>> Professor of Sanskrit >>> Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies >>> MC # 2540 >>> The University of California at Berkeley >>> Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 >>> Tel: 510-642-4089 >>> Fax: 510-642-2409 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Tue Feb 15 20:52:03 2011 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 11 14:52:03 -0600 Subject: Adhy=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81tma_R=C4=81m=C4=81ya=E1=B9=87a?= In-Reply-To: <41E298A1-C001-4711-88FC-BBCA1BEE6FFA@calmail.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227091513.23782.9408775013294886939.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 581 Lines: 24 Hi Bob, W. McLeod's Historical Dictionary of Sikhism, p. 15, mentions ANAND GHAN. An Udasi scholar of the late 18th and early 19th centuries who, living in Banaras, wrote commentaries on the Adi Granth strongly influenced by Brahmanical thought. Sounds like this might be your man. Otherwise, a quick google search shows that Anand Ghan was a pseudonym once used by Lata Mangeshkar... all best, Matthew Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From rrocher at SAS.UPENN.EDU Tue Feb 15 21:15:45 2011 From: rrocher at SAS.UPENN.EDU (Rosane Rocher) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 11 16:15:45 -0500 Subject: Adhy=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81tma_R=C4=81m=C4=81ya=E1=B9=87a?= In-Reply-To: <41E298A1-C001-4711-88FC-BBCA1BEE6FFA@calmail.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227091523.23782.4485962607772395871.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1929 Lines: 51 Hi Bob, George Nicholls' /Sketch of the Rise**and Progress of the Benares Patshalla or Sanskrit College, now forming the Sanskrit Department of the Benares College/ (1907) lists Gosain Anand Gir as professor of pur??as in the first list of professors at the college, i.e. late 1790s - early 1800s (p. 4). I cannot make out enough of the name of the translation's author to see if the two names can be reconciled. Rosane On 2/15/11 3:36 PM, Robert Goldman wrote: > Dear Colleagues, (I hope that this comes through better than y past > posting.) > > A local gentleman, a California winemaker by profession, visited me > today to ask me about a book in his possession that had belonged to > his late grandfather. Upon inspection I found it to be a two volume > set consisting of a handwritten English translation of the Adhy?tma > R?m?ya?a with an introduction by one Anand Ghan who describes himself > as "A Member of the College of Brahmins at Benares" and who claims > that he translated the text from "Sanscrit into Persian" and "Again > translated from the Persian into English". It is dated 1804 and > appears to have been purchased in India, perhaps by the grandfather > for Rs. 8. > > The book is in quite good condition. The handwriting is quite clear > and the English excellent. > > The owner was reluctant to leave the book with me but I was able to > take two images from it that I snapped with my mobile phone. One is > of the title page of the first volume and one is from a randomly > opened page to show what the text itself looks like. > > I would be interested to know if any of you know anything about Pt. > Ghan or the history of his double translation. > Dr. R. P. Goldman > Professor of Sanskrit > Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies > MC # 2540 > The University of California at Berkeley > Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 > Tel: 510-642-4089 > Fax: 510-642-2409 > > > > From jneelis at WLU.CA Tue Feb 15 23:07:07 2011 From: jneelis at WLU.CA (Jason Neelis) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 11 18:07:07 -0500 Subject: Adhy=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81tma_R=C4=81m=C4=81ya?= a In-Reply-To: <7BD713B8-7443-4F7C-9FAE-7DF7422ACFAF@CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU> Message-ID: <161227091534.23782.12952440763063225380.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3789 Lines: 126 A search of Google Books leads to a reference to a translation of the Matsya Puraan.a into Persian by "the braahman.a Gosain Anandghan of Delhi, resident of Benares" in Heinrich von Stietencron, et al. Epic and Puraan.ic Bibliography (up to 1985)... Harrasowitz, Wiesbaden: 1992, pp. 87-88, entry no. 480 (A. Bausani, "Notizia di una tradizione persiana inedita del Matsyapuraan.a della fine del secolo 18," RSO 31 [1956], 169-177): http://books.google.ca/books?id=kgpLBpUCufwC&lpg=PA87&ots=oFK7KZGb2r&dq=anandghan%20banaras&pg=PA87#v=onepage&q&f=false Jason Neelis Religion and Culture Wilfrid Laurier University >>> Robert Goldman 15/02/2011 5:48 pm >>> Dear Dr. D'Onofrio, Thank you for this reference. This would indeed very likely be the author in question. I should perhaps have noted that in his preface to the translation he describes himself as having come from "Dehly" but has having spent much time in V?van. Dr. R. P. Goldman Professor of Sanskrit Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540 The University of California at Berkeley Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 Tel: 510-642-4089 Fax: 510-642-2409 On Feb 15, 2011, at 2:09 PM, Svevo D'Onofrio wrote: > Dear colleague, > > Anandaghan "Khwush" was a poet who hailed from "among the > intellectuals of Brindaban" (quoted by Rajeev Kinra, Infantilizing > Baba Dara, "Journal of Persianate Studies" 2 (2009), p. 174). > He was the author of several Persian works, many of which are > mentioned in Hermann Eth?'s Catalogue of Persian Manuscripts in the > Library of the India Office, London 1903-37 (nos. 1725, 1959, 1962, > 2905, 2906, 2926). These (possibly) include Persian translations of > the Gayamahatmya, Bhagavadgita, Kashikhanda and Ramayana. > > Best, > > Svevo D'Onofrio > > PhD, Research Fellow > Ruhr-Universit?t Bochum > K?te Hamburger Kolleg > "Dynamics in the History of Religions between Asia and Europe" > SH 1/176 > Universit?tsstra?e 150 > 44801 Bochum (Germany) > Tel. +49 234 32-22955 > > >> >> >> >> >> >> Il giorno 15/feb/2011, alle ore 21.36, Robert Goldman ha scritto: >> >>> Dear Colleagues, (I hope that this comes through better than y >>> past posting.) >>> >>> A local gentleman, a California winemaker by profession, visited >>> me today to ask me about a book in his possession that had >>> belonged to his late grandfather. Upon inspection I found it to >>> be a two volume set consisting of a handwritten English >>> translation of the Adhy?tma R?m?yaa with an introduction by >>> one Anand Ghan who describes himself as "A Member of the College >>> of Brahmins at Benares" and who claims that he translated the text >>> from "Sanscrit into Persian" and "Again translated from the >>> Persian into English". It is dated 1804 and appears to have been >>> purchased in India, perhaps by the grandfather for Rs. 8. >>> >>> The book is in quite good condition. The handwriting is quite >>> clear and the English excellent. >>> >>> The owner was reluctant to leave the book with me but I was able >>> to take two images from it that I snapped with my mobile phone. >>> One is of the title page of the first volume and one is from a >>> randomly opened page to show what the text itself looks like. >>> >>> I would be interested to know if any of you know anything about >>> Pt. Ghan or the history of his double translation. >>> Dr. R. P. Goldman >>> Professor of Sanskrit >>> Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies >>> MC # 2540 >>> The University of California at Berkeley >>> Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 >>> Tel: 510-642-4089 >>> Fax: 510-642-2409 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > --- Scanned by M+ Guardian Messaging Firewall --- From rrocher at SAS.UPENN.EDU Wed Feb 16 02:30:14 2011 From: rrocher at SAS.UPENN.EDU (Rosane Rocher) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 11 21:30:14 -0500 Subject: Adhy=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81tma_R=C4=81m=C4=81ya?= a In-Reply-To: <4D5AC0CB0200007A0001D4CA@wlgw07.wlu.ca> Message-ID: <161227091540.23782.455786596746665656.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5067 Lines: 149 Wonderful! We have now established that the distinguished Gosain Anand Ghan (with name garbled in the colonial record and probably secondarily misread) was one of the first slate of pandits named professors at Banaras Sanskrit College. Could we also track the achievements of some of his colleagues? In addition to the first principal, Kashinath, who had been Charles Wilkins's pandit in Banaras, and who, in spite of what I once stated, was not Kashmiri, but Bengali, we have the following cast in Nicholls' list: 1. *Bireshur Sheth *Professor or Teacher of the large Vyakarana of Paniniand of the Bhasya of the Rigveda. 2. *Ram Chandr Tara *Professor or Teacher of the Veda and Vedanta. 3. *Ramprashad Tarka Panchanan *Professor of the Nyaya Shastra. 4. *Soolepa Shastri *Professor of the Mimansa 5. *Gosain Anand Gir*Professor of the Purans and Cabe Shastra. 6. *Luchmiput Joshi * Professor of the Jotish Shastra. 7. *Gangaram Bhat *Professor of the Vaya Shastra. 8. *Shyamanand Bhattacharji*, Professor or Teacher of Dharma Shastra. son of Cashinath. Rosane Rocher Professor Emerita of South Asia Studies University of Pennsylvania On 2/15/11 6:07 PM, Jason Neelis wrote: > A search of Google Books leads to a reference to a translation of the > Matsya Puraan.a into Persian by "the braahman.a Gosain Anandghan of > Delhi, resident of Benares" in Heinrich von Stietencron, et al. Epic and > Puraan.ic Bibliography (up to 1985)... Harrasowitz, Wiesbaden: 1992, pp. > 87-88, entry no. 480 (A. Bausani, "Notizia di una tradizione persiana > inedita del Matsyapuraan.a della fine del secolo 18," RSO 31 [1956], > 169-177): > http://books.google.ca/books?id=kgpLBpUCufwC&lpg=PA87&ots=oFK7KZGb2r&dq=anandghan%20banaras&pg=PA87#v=onepage&q&f=false > > Jason Neelis > Religion and Culture > Wilfrid Laurier University > >>>> Robert Goldman 15/02/2011 5:48 pm>>> > Dear Dr. D'Onofrio, > > Thank you for this reference. This would indeed very likely be the > author in question. I should perhaps have noted that in his preface to > > the translation he describes himself as having come from "Dehly" but > has having spent much time in V?van. > > Dr. R. P. Goldman > Professor of Sanskrit > Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies > MC # 2540 > The University of California at Berkeley > Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 > Tel: 510-642-4089 > Fax: 510-642-2409 > > > > > On Feb 15, 2011, at 2:09 PM, Svevo D'Onofrio wrote: > >> Dear colleague, >> >> Anandaghan "Khwush" was a poet who hailed from "among the >> intellectuals of Brindaban" (quoted by Rajeev Kinra, Infantilizing >> Baba Dara, "Journal of Persianate Studies" 2 (2009), p. 174). >> He was the author of several Persian works, many of which are >> mentioned in Hermann Eth?'s Catalogue of Persian Manuscripts in the >> Library of the India Office, London 1903-37 (nos. 1725, 1959, 1962, >> 2905, 2906, 2926). These (possibly) include Persian translations of >> the Gayamahatmya, Bhagavadgita, Kashikhanda and Ramayana. >> >> Best, >> >> Svevo D'Onofrio >> >> PhD, Research Fellow >> Ruhr-Universit?t Bochum >> K?te Hamburger Kolleg >> "Dynamics in the History of Religions between Asia and Europe" >> SH 1/176 >> Universit?tsstra?e 150 >> 44801 Bochum (Germany) >> Tel. +49 234 32-22955 >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Il giorno 15/feb/2011, alle ore 21.36, Robert Goldman ha scritto: >>> >>>> Dear Colleagues, (I hope that this comes through better than y >>>> past posting.) >>>> >>>> A local gentleman, a California winemaker by profession, visited >>>> me today to ask me about a book in his possession that had >>>> belonged to his late grandfather. Upon inspection I found it to >>>> be a two volume set consisting of a handwritten English >>>> translation of the Adhy?tma R?m?yaa with an introduction by >>>> one Anand Ghan who describes himself as "A Member of the College >>>> of Brahmins at Benares" and who claims that he translated the text >>>> from "Sanscrit into Persian" and "Again translated from the >>>> Persian into English". It is dated 1804 and appears to have been >>>> purchased in India, perhaps by the grandfather for Rs. 8. >>>> >>>> The book is in quite good condition. The handwriting is quite >>>> clear and the English excellent. >>>> >>>> The owner was reluctant to leave the book with me but I was able >>>> to take two images from it that I snapped with my mobile phone. >>>> One is of the title page of the first volume and one is from a >>>> randomly opened page to show what the text itself looks like. >>>> >>>> I would be interested to know if any of you know anything about >>>> Pt. Ghan or the history of his double translation. >>>> Dr. R. P. Goldman >>>> Professor of Sanskrit >>>> Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies >>>> MC # 2540 >>>> The University of California at Berkeley >>>> Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 >>>> Tel: 510-642-4089 >>>> Fax: 510-642-2409 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > --- Scanned by M+ Guardian Messaging Firewall --- > From donovevs at LIBERO.IT Tue Feb 15 22:09:38 2011 From: donovevs at LIBERO.IT (Svevo D'Onofrio) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 11 23:09:38 +0100 Subject: Adhy=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81tma_R=C4=81m=C4=81ya=E1=B9=87?= a Message-ID: <161227091526.23782.8065744946038456157.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2356 Lines: 58 Dear colleague, Anandaghan "Khwush" was a poet who hailed from "among the intellectuals of Brindaban" (quoted by Rajeev Kinra, Infantilizing Baba Dara, "Journal of Persianate Studies" 2 (2009), p. 174). He was the author of several Persian works, many of which are mentioned in Hermann Eth?'s Catalogue of Persian Manuscripts in the Library of the India Office, London 1903-37 (nos. 1725, 1959, 1962, 2905, 2906, 2926). These (possibly) include Persian translations of the Gayamahatmya, Bhagavadgita, Kashikhanda and Ramayana. Best, Svevo D'Onofrio PhD, Research Fellow Ruhr-Universit?t Bochum K?te Hamburger Kolleg "Dynamics in the History of Religions between Asia and Europe" SH 1/176 Universit?tsstra?e 150 44801 Bochum (Germany) Tel. +49 234 32-22955 > > > > > > Il giorno 15/feb/2011, alle ore 21.36, Robert Goldman ha scritto: > >> Dear Colleagues, (I hope that this comes through better than y past posting.) >> >> A local gentleman, a California winemaker by profession, visited me today to ask me about a book in his possession that had belonged to his late grandfather. Upon inspection I found it to be a two volume set consisting of a handwritten English translation of the Adhy?tma R?m?ya?a with an introduction by one Anand Ghan who describes himself as "A Member of the College of Brahmins at Benares" and who claims that he translated the text from "Sanscrit into Persian" and "Again translated from the Persian into English". It is dated 1804 and appears to have been purchased in India, perhaps by the grandfather for Rs. 8. >> >> The book is in quite good condition. The handwriting is quite clear and the English excellent. >> >> The owner was reluctant to leave the book with me but I was able to take two images from it that I snapped with my mobile phone. One is of the title page of the first volume and one is from a randomly opened page to show what the text itself looks like. >> >> I would be interested to know if any of you know anything about Pt. Ghan or the history of his double translation. >> Dr. R. P. Goldman >> Professor of Sanskrit >> Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies >> MC # 2540 >> The University of California at Berkeley >> Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 >> Tel: 510-642-4089 >> Fax: 510-642-2409 >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > From ambapradeep at GMAIL.COM Wed Feb 16 02:27:35 2011 From: ambapradeep at GMAIL.COM (amba kulkarni) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 11 07:57:35 +0530 Subject: online sankshepa ramayana with a GUI Message-ID: <161227091537.23782.14869912855023408757.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1132 Lines: 43 Dear Sanskrit lovers, Sankshepa Ramayanam (the first sarga of the baala-kaanda) is now available online with an attractive user interface at http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in/~scl/sankshepa_ramayanam/index.html. Each of the shloka is provided with the a) pada-paatha b) morphological analysis of every word in the context c) Hindi and English meaning for each word (taken from the Rashtriya Sanskrit Sansthan's book 'Sankshipta Ramayanam') d) anvaya for each shloka (taken from the Rashtriya Sanskrit Sansthan's book 'Sankshipta Ramayanam') e) help on the compounds f) kaaraka vi'sle.sa.na of the 'solkas. The user interface is designed in such a way that user has complete control over the choice of display of various information. For the best view please use firefox(3+) /chrome/opera. With regards, Amba Kulkarni ? ?? ?????: ?????? ????? ??????: ll Let noble thoughts come to us from every side. - Rig Veda, I-89-i. Reader and Head Department of Sanskrit Studies University of Hyderabad Prof. C.R. Rao Road Hyderabad-500 046 (91) 040 23133802(off) http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in/~scl From r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG Tue Feb 15 22:31:51 2011 From: r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 11 11:31:51 +1300 Subject: Adhy=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81tma_R_=C4=81m=C4=81ya=E1=B9=87a?= In-Reply-To: <20110215145203.AIS27796@mstore02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227091529.23782.2787478375605463935.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1201 Lines: 44 On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 02:52:03PM -0600, mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU wrote: > > Hi Bob, > > W. McLeod's Historical Dictionary of Sikhism, p. 15, mentions ANAND > GHAN. An Udasi scholar of the late 18th and early 19th centuries > who, living in Banaras, wrote commentaries on the Adi Granth > strongly influenced by Brahmanical thought. > > Sounds like this might be your man. > > Otherwise, a quick google search shows that Anand Ghan > was a pseudonym once used by Lata Mangeshkar... And with Google to the rescue again ... v. pg. 2396 of: Main Title: Encyclopaedia of Hinduism / editor-in-chief, Nagendra Kr. Singh. Main Title: Encyclopaedia of Hinduism : a continuing series Published/Created: [New Delhi?] : Centre International Religious Studies. Published/Created: New Delhi : Anmol Publications, 1997-2001. for ref. to Go??'in Anandghan of Delhi who was holed up in Benares trans. from Skt to Persian from 1791 to 1792. Kind regards, Richard -- Richard MAHONEY - Indica et Buddhica Littledene, Bay Road, OXFORD 7430, NZ PO Box 25, OXFORD 7443 +64 3 312 1699 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org http://indica-et-buddhica.org http://camera-antipodea.indica-et-buddhica.com From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Fri Feb 18 12:09:38 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 11 17:39:38 +0530 Subject: Adhy=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81tma_R=C4=81m=C4=81ya?= a Message-ID: <161227091543.23782.2176368944442933066.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7056 Lines: 216 --- On Fri, 18/2/11, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Adhy?tma R?m?ya a To: "Rosane Rocher" Date: Friday, 18 February, 2011, 12:08 PM 18 02 11 This will not be relevant to the main enquiry about Anand Ghan, but one might find interest in the following list of the occupants of the second post (Ny?ya). The first five names are taken from D?ne?acandra Bha???c?rya?s Vange Navya-Ny?ya carc? Bangiya Sahitya Parishat, Calcutta, March-April 1952: Candran?r?ya?a Ny?yapa?c?nana from Idilpur, now in Bangladesh, 1813?1833. K???acara?a Tark?lank?ra, 1833-1846, from Bengal. Radh?k?nta Tarka?iroma?i, s/o Candran?r?ya?a Ny?yapa?c?nana? and ?considered to be one of the most learned in Ny?ya Shaster now living? Gen.Report, N.W.P. 1846-47,p.40, K?l?pras?da ?iroma?i, son-in-law of K???acara?a Tark?lank?ra,1847-1880. Kailasacandra ?iroma?i from Bengal, 1880-1907. Dine?acandra?s list ends here. The occupant of the chair for a short period was one Maithili scholar whose name I am not finding immediately. After his untimely death Kailasacandra's student V?m?cara?a Ny?y?c?rya (1907-1931) hailing from Faridpur, now in Bangladesh, occupied the Chair for Ny?ya. Some of the names of the birthplace of the scholars in Dine?acandra?s list are not accurate. From family records it appears that like V?m?cara?a, Candran?r?ya?a too might have belonged to the village Dhanuka in the Faridpur District, now in Bangladesh. That he sailed in a boat on the Padma river flowing by the Faridpur district is almost a legend. With regret for keeping occupied with a not so relevant information Best DB --- On Wed, 16/2/11, Rosane Rocher wrote: From: Rosane Rocher Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Adhy?tma R?m?ya a To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 16 February, 2011, 2:30 AM Wonderful!? We have now established that the distinguished Gosain Anand Ghan (with name garbled in the colonial record and probably secondarily misread) was one of the first slate of pandits named professors at Banaras Sanskrit College.? Could we also track the achievements of some of his colleagues?? In addition to the first principal, Kashinath, who had been Charles Wilkins's pandit in Banaras, and who, in spite of what I once stated, was not Kashmiri, but Bengali, we have the following cast in Nicholls' list: 1. *Bireshur Sheth *Professor or Teacher of the large Vyakarana of Paniniand of the Bhasya of the Rigveda. 2. *Ram Chandr Tara *Professor or Teacher of the Veda and Vedanta. 3. *Ramprashad Tarka Panchanan *Professor of the Nyaya Shastra. 4. *Soolepa Shastri *Professor of the Mimansa 5. *Gosain Anand Gir*Professor of the Purans and Cabe Shastra. 6. *Luchmiput Joshi * Professor of the Jotish Shastra. 7. *Gangaram Bhat *Professor of the Vaya Shastra. 8. *Shyamanand Bhattacharji*, Professor or Teacher of Dharma Shastra. son of Cashinath. Rosane Rocher Professor Emerita of South Asia Studies University of Pennsylvania On 2/15/11 6:07 PM, Jason Neelis wrote: > A search of Google Books leads to a reference to a translation of the > Matsya Puraan.a into Persian by "the braahman.a Gosain Anandghan of > Delhi, resident of Benares" in Heinrich von Stietencron, et al. Epic and > Puraan.ic Bibliography (up to 1985)... Harrasowitz, Wiesbaden: 1992, pp. > 87-88, entry no. 480 (A. Bausani, "Notizia di una tradizione persiana > inedita del Matsyapuraan.a della fine del secolo 18," RSO 31 [1956], > 169-177): > http://books.google.ca/books?id=kgpLBpUCufwC&lpg=PA87&ots=oFK7KZGb2r&dq=anandghan%20banaras&pg=PA87#v=onepage&q&f=false > > Jason Neelis > Religion and Culture > Wilfrid Laurier University > >>>> Robert Goldman? 15/02/2011 5:48 pm>>> > Dear Dr. D'Onofrio, > > Thank you for this reference. This would indeed very likely be the > author in question. I should perhaps have noted that in his preface to > > the translation he describes himself as having come from "Dehly" but > has having spent much time in V?van. > > Dr. R. P.? Goldman > Professor of Sanskrit > Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies > MC # 2540 > The University of California at Berkeley > Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 > Tel: 510-642-4089 > Fax: 510-642-2409 > > > > > On Feb 15, 2011, at 2:09 PM, Svevo D'Onofrio wrote: > >> Dear colleague, >> >> Anandaghan "Khwush" was? a poet who hailed from "among the >> intellectuals of Brindaban" (quoted by Rajeev Kinra, Infantilizing >> Baba Dara, "Journal of Persianate Studies" 2 (2009), p. 174). >> He was the author of several Persian works, many of which are >> mentioned in Hermann Eth?'s Catalogue of Persian Manuscripts in the >> Library of the India Office, London 1903-37 (nos. 1725, 1959, 1962, >> 2905, 2906, 2926). These (possibly) include Persian translations of >> the Gayamahatmya, Bhagavadgita, Kashikhanda and Ramayana. >> >> Best, >> >> Svevo D'Onofrio >> >> PhD, Research Fellow >> Ruhr-Universit?t Bochum >> K?te Hamburger Kolleg >> "Dynamics in the History of Religions between Asia and Europe" >> SH 1/176 >> Universit?tsstra?e 150 >> 44801 Bochum (Germany) >> Tel. +49 234 32-22955 >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Il giorno 15/feb/2011, alle ore 21.36, Robert Goldman ha scritto: >>> >>>> Dear Colleagues, (I hope that this comes through better than y >>>> past posting.) >>>> >>>> A local gentleman, a California winemaker by profession, visited >>>> me today to ask me about a book in his possession that had >>>> belonged to his late grandfather.? Upon inspection I found it to >>>> be a two volume set consisting of a handwritten English >>>> translation of the Adhy?tma R?m?yaa with an introduction by >>>> one Anand Ghan who describes himself? as "A Member of the College >>>> of Brahmins at Benares" and who claims that he translated the text >>>> from "Sanscrit into Persian" and "Again translated from the >>>> Persian into English".? It is dated 1804 and appears to have been >>>> purchased in India, perhaps by the grandfather for Rs. 8. >>>> >>>> The book is in quite good condition. The handwriting is quite >>>> clear and the English excellent. >>>> >>>> The owner was reluctant to leave the book with me but? I was able >>>> to take? two images from it that I snapped with my mobile phone. >>>> One is of the title page of the first volume and one is from a >>>> randomly opened page to show what the text itself looks like. >>>> >>>> I would be interested to know if any of you know anything about >>>> Pt. Ghan or the history of his double translation. >>>> Dr. R. P.? Goldman >>>> Professor of Sanskrit >>>> Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies >>>> MC # 2540 >>>> The University of California at Berkeley >>>> Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 >>>> Tel: 510-642-4089 >>>> Fax: 510-642-2409 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > --- Scanned by M+ Guardian Messaging Firewall --- > From SamuelG at CARDIFF.AC.UK Fri Feb 18 19:06:15 2011 From: SamuelG at CARDIFF.AC.UK (Geoffrey Samuel) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 11 19:06:15 +0000 Subject: Asian Medicine: Tradition and Innovation: Future Issues, Contributions Invited Message-ID: <161227091546.23782.5491189221850701294.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1762 Lines: 22 Asian Medicine, the journal of the International Association for the Study of Traditional Asian Medicine (IASTAM), is a multidisciplinary, peer-reviewed journal published by Brill (ISSN 1573-420X). The journal is aimed at researchers and practitioners of Asian medicine in Asia as well as in Western countries. It makes available in one single publication academic essays that explore the historical, anthropological, sociological and philological dimensions of Asian medicine as well as practice reports from clinicians based in Asia and in Western countries. Our next two issues (Vol.5 no 1 and Vol.5 no 2) will be a special issue on Japan and East Asia (edited by Nancy Stalker) and a special issue on Himalayan medicinal plants (edited by Sienna Craig and Denise Glover). Details of back issues may be found at http://www.brill.nl/asme Contributions to the journal are welcome, both in the form of standard academic articles and of practice reports (see above). They should be sent to either of the editors, Dr Vivienne Lo (v.lo at ucl.ac.uk) or Prof Geoffrey Samuel (SamuelG at cardiff.ac.uk).? A style guide can be downloaded from http://www.brill.nl/AuthorsInstructions/ASME.pdf Books for review may be sent to our Reviews Editor, Ms Theresia Hofer (resi.hofer at gmail.com) Enquries about subscriptions should be directed to Michael Stanley-Baker (mstanleybaker at gmail.com) http://www.iastam.org/journal.htm http://www.brill.nl/asme Geoffrey Samuel School of History, Archaeology and Religion, Cardiff University, Humanities Bldg, Colum Drive, Cardiff CF10 3EU. Research Group on the Body, Health and Religion (BAHAR), 10 Museum Place, Cardiff CF10 3BG. Tel. +44 29 2087 0558, 2087 0546. BAHAR: http://www.bodyhealthreligion.org.uk/BAHAR/ From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Sat Feb 19 00:17:20 2011 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 11 19:17:20 -0500 Subject: access to the manuscript of Madhyamak ah=?utf-8?Q?=E1=B9=9Bdayak=C4=81rik=C4=81?= Message-ID: <161227091549.23782.1008057583268887735.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 715 Lines: 15 Dear Indologists, I am currently reading the Madhyamakah?dayak?rik? of Bh?vaviveka with a student, and, among the related published material, have a photocopy of the manuscript-photos as published in "Papers in Honour of Prof. Dr. Ji Xianlin on the Occasion of His 80th Birthday". However, these photos are almost unreadable even with a magnifying lens. I was wondering if anyone on this list has access to better quality images of the Sanskrit manuscript? Any suggestions are welcome. Best, Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA From r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG Sat Feb 19 05:52:45 2011 From: r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 11 18:52:45 +1300 Subject: access to the man uscript of Madhyamak ah=?utf-8?Q?=E1=B9=9Bdayak=C4=81rik=C4=81?= In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D71B1248E207@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227091552.23782.5557337281873716187.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1448 Lines: 48 Dear Madhav, On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 07:17:20PM -0500, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: > Dear Indologists, > > I am currently reading the Madhyamakah?dayak?rik? of > Bh?vaviveka with a student, and, among the related published > material, have a photocopy of the manuscript-photos as > published in "Papers in Honour of Prof. Dr. Ji Xianlin on the > Occasion of His 80th Birthday". However, these photos are > almost unreadable even with a magnifying lens. I was wondering > if anyone on this list has access to better quality images of > the Sanskrit manuscript? Any suggestions are welcome. Best, You may like to have a word to Christian Lindtner. Please say if you'd like his email. I should perhaps mention that I have to hand a digital version of Christian's edition. We were to make it freely available but I didn't follow up with Adyar about permission. Perhaps something could still be done if there is a need. Kind regards, Richard > Madhav > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA -- Richard MAHONEY - Indica et Buddhica Littledene, Bay Road, OXFORD 7430, NZ PO Box 25, OXFORD 7443 +64 3 312 1699 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org http://indica-et-buddhica.org http://camera-antipodea.indica-et-buddhica.com From rrocher at SAS.UPENN.EDU Sun Feb 20 14:51:39 2011 From: rrocher at SAS.UPENN.EDU (Rosane Rocher) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 11 09:51:39 -0500 Subject: Adhy=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81tma_R=C4=81m=C4=81ya=E1=B9=87a?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091558.23782.6747305142785146399.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2739 Lines: 77 Hi Greg, As my later posting shows, there were only 8 professors, besides the principal, at Banaras Sanskrit College, founded by Resident Jonathan Duncan in 1791. Of these only Gosain Anand Ghan/Gyan/Gin/Gir was named for the pur??as. Banaras Sanskrit College was the only institution run by the British for panditic education at that time. So that makes him one of a kind. Cheers, Rosane (with only one n):-) On 2/20/11 4:17 AM, Gregory Bailey wrote: > Hi Rosanne, > > Do we know anything more about Gir's role as professor of pur??as? I wonder > how many other positions of this exact kind existed then. > > Cheers, > > Greg Bailey > > > On 16/02/11 8:15 AM, "Rosane Rocher" wrote: > >> Hi Bob, >> >> George Nicholls' /Sketch of the Rise**and Progress of the Benares >> Patshalla or Sanskrit College, now forming the Sanskrit Department of >> the Benares College/ (1907) lists Gosain Anand Gir as professor of >> pur??as in the first list of professors at the college, i.e. late 1790s >> - early 1800s (p. 4). I cannot make out enough of the name of the >> translation's author to see if the two names can be reconciled. >> >> Rosane >> >> On 2/15/11 3:36 PM, Robert Goldman wrote: >>> Dear Colleagues, (I hope that this comes through better than y past >>> posting.) >>> >>> A local gentleman, a California winemaker by profession, visited me >>> today to ask me about a book in his possession that had belonged to >>> his late grandfather. Upon inspection I found it to be a two volume >>> set consisting of a handwritten English translation of the Adhy?tma >>> R?m?ya?a with an introduction by one Anand Ghan who describes himself >>> as "A Member of the College of Brahmins at Benares" and who claims >>> that he translated the text from "Sanscrit into Persian" and "Again >>> translated from the Persian into English". It is dated 1804 and >>> appears to have been purchased in India, perhaps by the grandfather >>> for Rs. 8. >>> >>> The book is in quite good condition. The handwriting is quite clear >>> and the English excellent. >>> >>> The owner was reluctant to leave the book with me but I was able to >>> take two images from it that I snapped with my mobile phone. One is >>> of the title page of the first volume and one is from a randomly >>> opened page to show what the text itself looks like. >>> >>> I would be interested to know if any of you know anything about Pt. >>> Ghan or the history of his double translation. >>> Dr. R. P. Goldman >>> Professor of Sanskrit >>> Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies >>> MC # 2540 >>> The University of California at Berkeley >>> Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 >>> Tel: 510-642-4089 >>> Fax: 510-642-2409 >>> >>> >>> >>> > From Greg.Bailey at LATROBE.EDU.AU Sun Feb 20 09:17:22 2011 From: Greg.Bailey at LATROBE.EDU.AU (Gregory Bailey) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 11 20:17:22 +1100 Subject: Adhy=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81tma_R=C4=81m=C4=81ya=E1=B9=87a?= In-Reply-To: <4D5AED01.2010004@sas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <161227091555.23782.4177839094310469121.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2220 Lines: 64 Hi Rosanne, Do we know anything more about Gir's role as professor of pur??as? I wonder how many other positions of this exact kind existed then. Cheers, Greg Bailey On 16/02/11 8:15 AM, "Rosane Rocher" wrote: > Hi Bob, > > George Nicholls' /Sketch of the Rise**and Progress of the Benares > Patshalla or Sanskrit College, now forming the Sanskrit Department of > the Benares College/ (1907) lists Gosain Anand Gir as professor of > pur??as in the first list of professors at the college, i.e. late 1790s > - early 1800s (p. 4). I cannot make out enough of the name of the > translation's author to see if the two names can be reconciled. > > Rosane > > On 2/15/11 3:36 PM, Robert Goldman wrote: >> Dear Colleagues, (I hope that this comes through better than y past >> posting.) >> >> A local gentleman, a California winemaker by profession, visited me >> today to ask me about a book in his possession that had belonged to >> his late grandfather. Upon inspection I found it to be a two volume >> set consisting of a handwritten English translation of the Adhy?tma >> R?m?ya?a with an introduction by one Anand Ghan who describes himself >> as "A Member of the College of Brahmins at Benares" and who claims >> that he translated the text from "Sanscrit into Persian" and "Again >> translated from the Persian into English". It is dated 1804 and >> appears to have been purchased in India, perhaps by the grandfather >> for Rs. 8. >> >> The book is in quite good condition. The handwriting is quite clear >> and the English excellent. >> >> The owner was reluctant to leave the book with me but I was able to >> take two images from it that I snapped with my mobile phone. One is >> of the title page of the first volume and one is from a randomly >> opened page to show what the text itself looks like. >> >> I would be interested to know if any of you know anything about Pt. >> Ghan or the history of his double translation. >> Dr. R. P. Goldman >> Professor of Sanskrit >> Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies >> MC # 2540 >> The University of California at Berkeley >> Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 >> Tel: 510-642-4089 >> Fax: 510-642-2409 >> >> >> >> From tmahadevan at HOWARD.EDU Mon Feb 21 23:05:08 2011 From: tmahadevan at HOWARD.EDU (Mahadevan, Thennilapuram) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 11 18:05:08 -0500 Subject: Adhy=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81tma_R=C4=81m=C4=81ya=E1=B9=87a?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091561.23782.9061018578340965700.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2510 Lines: 71 This whole thread has been enthralling. ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Gregory Bailey [Greg.Bailey at LATROBE.EDU.AU] Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 4:17 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Adhy?tma R?m?ya?a Hi Rosanne, Do we know anything more about Gir's role as professor of pur??as? I wonder how many other positions of this exact kind existed then. Cheers, Greg Bailey On 16/02/11 8:15 AM, "Rosane Rocher" wrote: > Hi Bob, > > George Nicholls' /Sketch of the Rise**and Progress of the Benares > Patshalla or Sanskrit College, now forming the Sanskrit Department of > the Benares College/ (1907) lists Gosain Anand Gir as professor of > pur??as in the first list of professors at the college, i.e. late 1790s > - early 1800s (p. 4). I cannot make out enough of the name of the > translation's author to see if the two names can be reconciled. > > Rosane > > On 2/15/11 3:36 PM, Robert Goldman wrote: >> Dear Colleagues, (I hope that this comes through better than y past >> posting.) >> >> A local gentleman, a California winemaker by profession, visited me >> today to ask me about a book in his possession that had belonged to >> his late grandfather. Upon inspection I found it to be a two volume >> set consisting of a handwritten English translation of the Adhy?tma >> R?m?ya?a with an introduction by one Anand Ghan who describes himself >> as "A Member of the College of Brahmins at Benares" and who claims >> that he translated the text from "Sanscrit into Persian" and "Again >> translated from the Persian into English". It is dated 1804 and >> appears to have been purchased in India, perhaps by the grandfather >> for Rs. 8. >> >> The book is in quite good condition. The handwriting is quite clear >> and the English excellent. >> >> The owner was reluctant to leave the book with me but I was able to >> take two images from it that I snapped with my mobile phone. One is >> of the title page of the first volume and one is from a randomly >> opened page to show what the text itself looks like. >> >> I would be interested to know if any of you know anything about Pt. >> Ghan or the history of his double translation. >> Dr. R. P. Goldman >> Professor of Sanskrit >> Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies >> MC # 2540 >> The University of California at Berkeley >> Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 >> Tel: 510-642-4089 >> Fax: 510-642-2409 >> >> >> >> From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Wed Feb 23 03:40:25 2011 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 11 19:40:25 -0800 Subject: curses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091566.23782.12221807599451594649.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2462 Lines: 50 Don't know if your student would be interested in this aspect at all -- to see if there is / are any difference(s) in the way in which different religious affiliations had impacted the nature of the curses. For example, in the Tamil epic Cilappatikaram, a Jain nun curses two people to become "old jackals," whereas in Tamil inscriptions the curses normally center around sending the affected parties to "hell." Regards, V. S. Rajam On Feb 22, 2011, at 7:20 PM, Arlo Griffiths wrote: > Dear colleagues, > One of my students at the University of Indonesia is writing her MA > thesis on the topic of curse-formulae in ancient Indonesian > inscriptions, against the background of similar formulae observed > elsewhere in Southeast Asian as well as in Indian epigraphy. > I have been surprised at how little the usual epigraphical > handbooks (Sircar, Sivaramamurti, Salomon) say about curses/ > imprecations, especially if one is interested in vernacular > expressions besides the formulae in Sanskrit. A keyword search > 'curse/'imprecation' in other Indological handbooks (e.g. Kane's > History of Dharmas?stra) also does not yield much. > Dr. Emmanuel Francis has kindly supplied to me pdfs of a paper by > N. Karashima ('New imprecations in Tamil Inscriptions and J?ti > Formation'), a few pages from the Introduction of K.V. Ramesh, > Indian Epigraphy Vol. I (1984), and a few pages from A. Krishnan's > 'Literature and Epigraphy of Tamil Nadu' (1998). This is all very > helpful. > My student is interested in the Sanskrit/vernacular distinction, in > the question whether curse-formulae occur by themselves or paired > with benedictions, in the particular elements of threat used in > curse formulae (different kinds of hells, types of corporeal > punishment or acts of bestiality the sinner will undergo, dangerous > animals he will encounter, classifications of types of sins > assimilated to the sin of disturbing a land-donation, etc.), and in > interpretations of the function of these formulae in land-grants > (or arguments that might help her to formulate her own > interpretations). > May I ask whether anybody can help me obtain further secondary > literature and/or (collections of) specific curse formulae, > especially those expressed in vernacular languages, to address the > themes outlined above? Many thanks in advance. > Best wishes, > Arlo Griffiths(EFEO/Jakarta) From lubint at WLU.EDU Wed Feb 23 04:27:15 2011 From: lubint at WLU.EDU (Lubin, Tim) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 11 23:27:15 -0500 Subject: curses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091569.23782.14559666409197826672.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2271 Lines: 45 A fascinating topic. Java seems have made more of a specialty of curses in inscriptions than South Asia. But here is what comes to mind. Many inscriptions recording an act of benefaction end in blessings upon those who respect and protect the benefaction, and curses on those who violate it. An example I pluck from the beginning of my 2007 article, "Punishment and Expiation..." is a Prakrit grant, the relevant part of which reads: [7r44] ... jo sakak?le upari- [7r45] likhitamaj?t?ye a?uva??h?veti tasa [7r46] vo sammo ti yo casi vigghe va??eja [7v47] sa ca khu pancamah?p?takasa?jutto nar?dhamo [7v48] hota ti "Blessings to him among you who in his time makes [people] follow the above-written rule. But he who acts contrary to it shall be the lowest of men, tainted with the five mortal sins." My note on this gives the source and mentions a similar formula in Kannada: G. B?hler, "A Pr?krit Grant of the Pallava King Sivaskandavarman," EI 1: 2-10. My translation is adapted from B?HLER's. Similarly, the Kannada portion of an inscription of K???adevar?ya of Vijayanagara warns that "those who injure this meritorious gift (dharma) shall incur the great sin of slaughter of a cow or brahmin, or the like (gohaty[?]brahmahaty?dimah?p?taga?a)": EI 1: 366, line 39. My impression, perhaps premature, is that such imprecations are usually in Sanskrit rather than the vernacular in bilingual grants. Even in the "Kannada" text just mentioned, the imprecation is actually a Sanskrit compound with a Kannada ending. Sircar collected many such stanzas (often more vivid) attributed to Vy?sa or Manu in inscriptions: Sircar, D.C. (1965), Indian Epigraphy, Motilal Banarsidass, Delhi, appendix II: 170-201. These stanzas occur very frequently in the Orissa inscriptions, for instance, collected in the Rajaguru volumes. I will chime in again if I notice any truly vernacular examples in my files. Tim Timothy Lubin Professor, Department of Religion Lecturer in Law and Religion, School of Law 208 Baker Hall Washington and Lee University Lexington, Virginia 24450 USA American Philosophical Society sabbatical fellow, 2010-2011 lubint at wlu.edu | http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint | http://ssrn.com/author=930949 office: +1 540.458.8146 mob: +1 540.461.3435 From lubint at WLU.EDU Wed Feb 23 04:39:48 2011 From: lubint at WLU.EDU (Lubin, Tim) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 11 23:39:48 -0500 Subject: curses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091572.23782.8572852353022964601.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2890 Lines: 65 Sorry, I see my characters with underdots turned into question marks (at least in the message I received). The Prakrit lines read: [7r44] ... jo sakak?le upari- [7r45] likhitamaj?t?ye a.nuva.t.th?veti tasa [7r46] vo sammo ti yo casi vigghe va.t.teja [7v47] sa ca khu pancamah?p?takasa.mjutto nar?dhamo [7v48] hota ti And the Kannada compound: [?]brahmahaty?dimah?p?taga.la -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Lubin, Tim Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 11:27 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] curses A fascinating topic. Java seems have made more of a specialty of curses in inscriptions than South Asia. But here is what comes to mind. Many inscriptions recording an act of benefaction end in blessings upon those who respect and protect the benefaction, and curses on those who violate it. An example I pluck from the beginning of my 2007 article, "Punishment and Expiation..." is a Prakrit grant, the relevant part of which reads: [7r44] ... jo sakak?le upari- [7r45] likhitamaj?t?ye a?uva??h?veti tasa [7r46] vo sammo ti yo casi vigghe va??eja [7v47] sa ca khu pancamah?p?takasa?jutto nar?dhamo [7v48] hota ti "Blessings to him among you who in his time makes [people] follow the above-written rule. But he who acts contrary to it shall be the lowest of men, tainted with the five mortal sins." My note on this gives the source and mentions a similar formula in Kannada: G. B?hler, "A Pr?krit Grant of the Pallava King Sivaskandavarman," EI 1: 2-10. My translation is adapted from B?HLER's. Similarly, the Kannada portion of an inscription of K???adevar?ya of Vijayanagara warns that "those who injure this meritorious gift (dharma) shall incur the great sin of slaughter of a cow or brahmin, or the like (gohaty[?]brahmahaty?dimah?p?taga?a)": EI 1: 366, line 39. My impression, perhaps premature, is that such imprecations are usually in Sanskrit rather than the vernacular in bilingual grants. Even in the "Kannada" text just mentioned, the imprecation is actually a Sanskrit compound with a Kannada ending. Sircar collected many such stanzas (often more vivid) attributed to Vy?sa or Manu in inscriptions: Sircar, D.C. (1965), Indian Epigraphy, Motilal Banarsidass, Delhi, appendix II: 170-201. These stanzas occur very frequently in the Orissa inscriptions, for instance, collected in the Rajaguru volumes. I will chime in again if I notice any truly vernacular examples in my files.. Tim Timothy Lubin Professor, Department of Religion Lecturer in Law and Religion, School of Law 208 Baker Hall Washington and Lee University Lexington, Virginia 24450 USA American Philosophical Society sabbatical fellow, 2010-2011 lubint at wlu.edu | http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint | http://ssrn.com/author=930949 office: +1 540.458.8146 mob: +1 540.461.3435 !SIG:4d648cd8185715395218460! From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Feb 23 03:20:59 2011 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 11 03:20:59 +0000 Subject: curses Message-ID: <161227091564.23782.9166864986577883731.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1851 Lines: 11 Dear colleagues, One of my students at the University of Indonesia is writing her MA thesis on the topic of curse-formulae in ancient Indonesian inscriptions, against the background of similar formulae observed elsewhere in Southeast Asian as well as in Indian epigraphy. I have been surprised at how little the usual epigraphical handbooks (Sircar, Sivaramamurti, Salomon) say about curses/imprecations, especially if one is interested in vernacular expressions besides the formulae in Sanskrit. A keyword search 'curse/'imprecation' in other Indological handbooks (e.g. Kane's History of Dharmas?stra) also does not yield much. Dr. Emmanuel Francis has kindly supplied to me pdfs of a paper by N. Karashima ('New imprecations in Tamil Inscriptions and J?ti Formation'), a few pages from the Introduction of K.V. Ramesh, Indian Epigraphy Vol. I (1984), and a few pages from A. Krishnan's 'Literature and Epigraphy of Tamil Nadu' (1998). This is all very helpful. My student is interested in the Sanskrit/vernacular distinction, in the question whether curse-formulae occur by themselves or paired with benedictions, in the particular elements of threat used in curse formulae (different kinds of hells, types of corporeal punishment or?acts of bestiality the sinner will undergo,?dangerous animals he will encounter,?classifications of types of sins assimilated to the sin of disturbing a land-donation, etc.), and in interpretations of the function of these formulae in land-grants (or arguments that might help her to formulate her own interpretations). May I ask whether anybody can help me obtain further secondary literature and/or (collections of) specific curse formulae, especially those expressed in vernacular languages, to address the themes outlined above? Many thanks in advance. Best wishes, Arlo Griffiths(EFEO/Jakarta) From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Feb 23 07:22:37 2011 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 11 07:22:37 +0000 Subject: curses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091575.23782.7551856354683274544.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3320 Lines: 76 Thank you Tim. Yes, I am aware of Sircar's list of Sanskrit verses on Bh?mid?na. Thanks for these Prakrit and Kannada cases. Best wishes, Arlo ---------------------------------------- > Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 23:39:48 -0500 > From: lubint at WLU.EDU > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] curses > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Sorry, I see my characters with underdots turned into question marks (at least in the message I received). The Prakrit lines read: > > [7r44] ... jo sakak?le upari- > [7r45] likhitamaj?t?ye a.nuva.t.th?veti tasa > [7r46] vo sammo ti yo casi vigghe va.t.teja > [7v47] sa ca khu pancamah?p?takasa.mjutto nar?dhamo > [7v48] hota ti > > And the Kannada compound: > [?]brahmahaty?dimah?p?taga.la > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Lubin, Tim > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 11:27 PM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] curses > > > A fascinating topic. Java seems have made more of a specialty of curses in inscriptions than South Asia. But here is what comes to mind. Many inscriptions recording an act of benefaction end in blessings upon those who respect and protect the benefaction, and curses on those who violate it. An example I pluck from the beginning of my 2007 article, "Punishment and Expiation..." is a Prakrit grant, the relevant part of which reads: > > [7r44] ... jo sakak?le upari- > [7r45] likhitamaj?t?ye a?uva??h?veti tasa > [7r46] vo sammo ti yo casi vigghe va??eja > [7v47] sa ca khu pancamah?p?takasa?jutto nar?dhamo > [7v48] hota ti > > "Blessings to him among you who in his time makes [people] follow the > above-written rule. But he who acts contrary to it shall be the lowest > of men, tainted with the five mortal sins." > > My note on this gives the source and mentions a similar formula in Kannada: > > G. B?hler, "A Pr?krit Grant of the Pallava King Sivaskandavarman," EI 1: > 2-10. My translation is adapted from B?HLER's. Similarly, the Kannada portion of an > inscription of K???adevar?ya of Vijayanagara warns that "those who injure this meritorious > gift (dharma) shall incur the great sin of slaughter of a cow or brahmin, or the > like (gohaty[?]brahmahaty?dimah?p?taga?a)": EI 1: 366, line 39. > > My impression, perhaps premature, is that such imprecations are usually in Sanskrit rather than the vernacular in bilingual grants. Even in the "Kannada" text just mentioned, the imprecation is actually a Sanskrit compound with a Kannada ending. > > Sircar collected many such stanzas (often more vivid) attributed to Vy?sa or Manu in inscriptions: > Sircar, D.C. (1965), Indian Epigraphy, Motilal Banarsidass, Delhi, appendix II: 170-201. > > These stanzas occur very frequently in the Orissa inscriptions, for instance, collected in the Rajaguru volumes. > I will chime in again if I notice any truly vernacular examples in my files.. > > Tim > > Timothy Lubin > Professor, Department of Religion > Lecturer in Law and Religion, School of Law > 208 Baker Hall > Washington and Lee University > Lexington, Virginia 24450 USA > > American Philosophical Society sabbatical fellow, 2010-2011 > > lubint at wlu.edu | http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint | http://ssrn.com/author=930949 > office: +1 540.458.8146 > mob: +1 540.461.3435 > > !SIG:4d648cd8185715395218460! From lubint at WLU.EDU Wed Feb 23 14:52:42 2011 From: lubint at WLU.EDU (Lubin, Tim) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 11 09:52:42 -0500 Subject: curses In-Reply-To: <466CB788-8E6A-48F0-879B-C87416E0EADA@efeo.net> Message-ID: <161227091583.23782.15170715497730459345.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2174 Lines: 48 Arlo and Sekar, Just to illustrate the type of curse in all-Tamil inscriptions mentioned by Palaniappan, a typical form is: itukku vik?tam pa.n.ni_nava_n ke:nkaikkaraiyil kaaraampacuvaikko_n_ra doo.sattil poovaaraakavum kumara_n tu.nai || He who obstructs this charity shall go in the sin of one who has killed a black cow on the banks of the Ganges. May Kumara help us! This example is from Burgess, Tamil and Sanskrit Inscriptions (1886), temple inscription from Tirupparankunram, pp. 41-43 (with Natesa Sastri's translation). Very similar is the first Setupati copper-plate, pp. 62-65, a fascinating document of 1600 confirming a shepherd's claim to contested land. It too ends with an imprecation: [lines 82-86] ... yenta ceppuppa.t.taiyam ya_navoorum kuu.ti ceyta pa.t.taiyattukku turata:nka.l pa.n.ni?ava? kaaveerikkaraiyil kaa_raapacuvai ko.n.ta toocattilee poovaa_raakavum [witnesses listed here, engraver acknowledged, etc., ending line 96:] kaamaa.tci tu.nai || If any one injfures this grant executed by us all conjointly he shall go in the sin of having killed a black cow on the banks of the K?v?r? ... My Kamakshi help us! And a few pages on, in another Setupati CP (pp. 67-68): [lines 43-47] ... itarkku aaraailum akitam pa.n.ni_napeerka.l ke:nkaikkaraayilee kaaraampacuvaiko_n_na tocattileeyum pi_rumakkatipa.n.ni_na toocattileeyum maataapitaavai ko_n_na toocattileeyum poovaaraakavum | He who injures this charity shall go in the sin of having, on the banks of Ganges, murdered a black cow, Brahmans, and his father and mother. There are more besides ? you get the picture. P.S., "Punishment and expiation" can be downloaded here: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Delivery.cfm/SSRN_ID1092888_code930949.pdf?abstractid=1084716 (Sekar yang baik, Saya berharap bahwa ini membantu.) Tim Timothy Lubin Professor, Department of Religion Lecturer in Law and Religion, School of Law 208 Baker Hall Washington and Lee University Lexington, Virginia 24450 USA American Philosophical Society sabbatical fellow, 2010-2011 lubint at wlu.edu | http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint | http://ssrn.com/author=930949 office: +1 540.458.8146 mob: +1 540.461.3435 From jkirk at SPRO.NET Wed Feb 23 17:03:38 2011 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 11 10:03:38 -0700 Subject: curses Message-ID: <161227091592.23782.11202512187429769909.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 229 Lines: 12 A simple question, if I may: in the examples posted by Tim Lubin, why must the cow be black? What is the symbolic motive in the sin of killing a black cow, instead of any old cow? Thanks and best wishes, Joanna Kirkpatrick From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Feb 23 10:54:56 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 11 11:54:56 +0100 Subject: MS census in Himachal Pradesh Message-ID: <161227091577.23782.9399350041472621517.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 597 Lines: 10 HP invites citizens to register rare manuscripts as state heritage Indian Express After laying its hands on a rare *Sanskrit* dictionary found in one of the old bookstores in Shimla last year, the State Language Art and Culture department has stepped up its awareness campaign to encourage people to share rare manuscripts languishing *...* From wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK Wed Feb 23 11:57:38 2011 From: wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK (Whitney Cox) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 11 11:57:38 +0000 Subject: curses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091580.23782.5536792368755487667.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4726 Lines: 93 Dear Arlo, I second Tim's interest in this great topic, and I look forward to hearing what your student turns up. I can add a few references to what have already been mentioned: Michael Willis has recently discussed the imprecatory formulae found in Gupta and post-Gupta copperplates; see his The Archaeology of Hindu Ritual (Cambridge, 2009), pp. 84-88. Especially interesting here are his comments (esp p. 86 and nn. 27-29) on the locus of attribution to these stereotypical verses in the Mah?bh?rata's ??vamedhikaparvan. I largely agree with Tim's suggestion that these imprecations are very often given in Sanskrit, even in otherwise non-Sanskrit grants: very broadly, there's a magical efficacy to the use of the language (or to tatsama vocabulary in vernacular texts, as Tim suggests) here that would reward further scrutiny. It is, however, not always the case that curses must be couched in Sanskrit, as the title Karashima's article (for which I would appreciate the reference) would seem to indicate. I'm very much an amateur in Southeast Asian materials, but there is the fascinating case of the Telaga Batu inscription of ca. 686 CE edited by de Casparis in his Selected Inscriptions for the 7th the 9th Centuries AD (Masa Baru, Bandung: 1956), pp. 15-46. This very insteresting record (and forgive me if this is common knowledge among Indonesianists) takes the form of a n?ga-headed stele that ends in a spouted ledge, the text of the inscription is a sort of loyalty oath that was evidently meant to be recited prior to drinking water poured down the incised surface of the record. Such anyway was de Casparis' interpretation; some of the philological details of his reading were questioned by K. Adelaar (in "The relevance of Salako for Proto-Malayic and for Old Malay epigraphy." Bijdragen tot de Taal-, Land- en Volkenkunde 148 (1992), no: 3/4, Leiden, 381-408), but not his overall interpretation of the inscription's unusual magical function. Finally, in addition to verbal curse formulae, there are instances of inscribed curse-images, as well. An example of this can be seen in, e.g. the Rajapura plates of Madhur?ntakadeva (edited by Hira Lala, EI 9: 23, pp. 174-181, and esp. plate iii b facing p. 179). This particular image is of what the editor rather mildly describes as "a woman purused by a donkey"; it is poorly executed, but obviously and deliberately obscene. I am copying this message to Daud Ali, who is not on the list but who has worked on both the Telaga Batu record and the curse-images. He may have much more to share with you. Best, Whitney 2011/2/23 Arlo Griffiths > Dear colleagues, > One of my students at the University of Indonesia is writing her MA thesis > on the topic of curse-formulae in ancient Indonesian inscriptions, against > the background of similar formulae observed elsewhere in Southeast Asian as > well as in Indian epigraphy. > I have been surprised at how little the usual epigraphical handbooks > (Sircar, Sivaramamurti, Salomon) say about curses/imprecations, especially > if one is interested in vernacular expressions besides the formulae in > Sanskrit. A keyword search 'curse/'imprecation' in other Indological > handbooks (e.g. Kane's History of Dharmas?stra) also does not yield much. > Dr. Emmanuel Francis has kindly supplied to me pdfs of a paper by N. > Karashima ('New imprecations in Tamil Inscriptions and J?ti Formation'), a > few pages from the Introduction of K.V. Ramesh, Indian Epigraphy Vol. I > (1984), and a few pages from A. Krishnan's 'Literature and Epigraphy of > Tamil Nadu' (1998). This is all very helpful. > My student is interested in the Sanskrit/vernacular distinction, in the > question whether curse-formulae occur by themselves or paired with > benedictions, in the particular elements of threat used in curse formulae > (different kinds of hells, types of corporeal punishment or acts of > bestiality the sinner will undergo, dangerous animals he will > encounter, classifications of types of sins assimilated to the sin of > disturbing a land-donation, etc.), and in interpretations of the function of > these formulae in land-grants (or arguments that might help her to formulate > her own interpretations). > May I ask whether anybody can help me obtain further secondary literature > and/or (collections of) specific curse formulae, especially those expressed > in vernacular languages, to address the themes outlined above? Many thanks > in advance. > Best wishes, > Arlo Griffiths(EFEO/Jakarta) > -- Dr. Whitney Cox Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, School of Oriental and African Studies Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square London WC1H 0XG From filipsky at RZONE.CZ Wed Feb 23 15:10:32 2011 From: filipsky at RZONE.CZ (=?utf-8?Q?Jan_Filipsk=C3=BD?=) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 11 16:10:32 +0100 Subject: Buddha Jayanti Message-ID: <161227091587.23782.1401265463784246438.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 683 Lines: 27 Dear All, would any list member do me the favour and send me (off-list) .pdf versions of the following articles touching upon the Buddha Jayanti, viz. Coedes, George ?- Richter, F.: "The Twenty-Five-Hundredth Anniversary of the Buddha." Diogenes, Sept. 1956, Vol. 4, 15: pp. 95-111 (the German version by Coedes, "Der 2500. Geburtstag Buddhas", Diogenes IV, 1957, or the French one, "Le 2500. Anniversaire du Bouddha", Diogene, No. 15, July, 1956 would also be fine) and Ames, Michael, Ideological and Social Change in Ceylon. Human Organization, Vol. 22, No. 1 / Spring 1963, pp. 45-53. Sincere thanks to all and sundry for your invaluable assistance. Jan Filipsky From wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK Wed Feb 23 17:10:17 2011 From: wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK (Whitney Cox) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 11 17:10:17 +0000 Subject: curses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091589.23782.3224502462939165925.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2995 Lines: 68 I posted this a few hours ago; I think that perhaps it didn't go through to the list since it contained multiple addresses. Re-posted, with a few typos corrected. Apologies to anyone seeing this for the second time. wc Dear Arlo, I second Tim's interest in this great topic, and I look forward to hearing what your student turns up. I can add a few references to what have already been mentioned: Michael Willis has recently discussed the imprecatory formulae found in Gupta and post-Gupta copperplates; see his The Archaeology of Hindu Ritual (Cambridge, 2009), pp. 84-88. Especially interesting here are his comments (esp p. 86 and nn. 27-29) on the locus of attribution to these stereotypical verses in the Mah?bh?rata's ??vamedhikaparvan. I largely agree with Tim's suggestion that these imprecations are very often given in Sanskrit, even in otherwise non-Sanskrit grants: very broadly, there's a magical efficacy to the use of the language (or to tatsama vocabulary in vernacular texts, as Tim suggests) here that would reward further scrutiny. It is, however, not always the case that curses must be couched in Sanskrit, as the title Karashima's article (for which I would appreciate the reference) would seem to indicate. I'm very much an amateur in Southeast Asian materials, but there is the fascinating case of the Telaga Batu inscription of ca. 686 CE edited by de Casparis in his Selected Inscriptions for the 7th the 9th Centuries AD (Masa Baru, Bandung: 1956), pp. 15-46. This very interesting record (and forgive me if this is common knowledge among Indonesianists) takes the form of a n?ga-headed stele that ends in a spouted ledge, the text of the inscription is a sort of loyalty oath that was evidently meant to be recited prior to drinking water poured down the incised surface of the record. Such anyway was de Casparis' interpretation; some of the philological details of his reading were questioned by K. Adelaar (in "The relevance of Salako for Proto-Malayic and for Old Malay epigraphy." Bijdragen tot de Taal-, Land- en Volkenkunde 148 (1992), no: 3/4, Leiden, 381-408), but not his overall interpretation of the inscription's unusual magical function. Finally, in addition to verbal curse formulae, there are instances of inscribed curse-images, as well. An example of this can be seen in, e.g. the Rajapura plates of Madhur?ntakadeva (edited by Hira Lala, EI 9: 23, pp. 174-181, and esp. plate iii b facing p. 179). This particular image is of what the editor rather mildly describes as "a woman pursued by a donkey"; it is poorly executed, but obviously and deliberately obscene. I am copying this message to Daud Ali, who is not on the list but who has worked on both the Telaga Batu record and the curse-images. He may have much more to share with you. Best, Whitney -- Dr. Whitney Cox Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, School of Oriental and African Studies Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square London WC1H 0XG From athr at LOC.GOV Thu Feb 24 16:36:23 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 11 11:36:23 -0500 Subject: meaning of ship's name Quedagh Message-ID: <161227091610.23782.2853117571463783646.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 929 Lines: 18 I have been asked for the proper pronunciation of the name of the ship Quedagh Merchant < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quedagh_Merchant >, an Indian ship , owned by a man named Coirgi and hired by a group of Armenian merchants. As the Wiki article elaborates, it was taken by the famous Scottish privateer William Kidd who eventually, in 1701, was hanged for piracy on account of it. "Quedagh" means nothing in any Indian language I can think of, whether pronounced something like Kwedagh or Kyudagh; could it be Persian? I find it hard to make anything out of Coirgi either. "Quedagh" is not in Hobson-Jobson. Any suggestions appreciated. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From athr at LOC.GOV Thu Feb 24 18:44:53 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 11 13:44:53 -0500 Subject: meaning of ship's name Quedagh In-Reply-To: <4D668E05.8050108@wisc.edu> Message-ID: <161227091615.23782.5807923971423692440.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 578 Lines: 19 Don, Thanks for the tip. The Wiki article says the ship was out of Surat. I have paged two eds. of the trial proceedings and will see if they throw any light on this issue. Allen From: Donald R Davis Jr [mailto:drdavis at wisc.edu] Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 11:58 AM To: Thrasher, Allen Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] meaning of ship's name Quedagh Allen, Just a shot in the dark, but both names look to me as if they could both be permutations of Dravidian kuTaku/kuTakam=Coorg. It is possible that the ship and man come from this region of South India? Best, Don From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Feb 24 14:05:13 2011 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 11 14:05:13 +0000 Subject: FW: [INDOLOGY] curses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091603.23782.17499231617257821304.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7672 Lines: 104 This got rejected because it exceeded the size limit. So here it goes again, with just two attachments. Arlo Griffiths ---------------------------------------- > From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com > To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk > CC: arlo.griffiths at efeo.net; tres.sekar at gmail.com > Subject: RE: [INDOLOGY] curses > Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 13:02:22 +0000 > > > Dear colleagues, > This is an attempt to answer simultaneously a private message from Harry Falk as well as Whitney Cox' and Tim Lubin's messages to the list. > It may well be the case that Sanskrit curses far outnumber the vernacular ones in Indian epigraphy, although when one hears about the tens of thousands of Tamil inscriptions lying unpublished, this might give cause for hesitation with regard to such comparisons of numbers. In any case, in Southeast Asian epigraphy vernacular curses are very common, both on the mainland and in Indonesia. > For example the Cam inscription C. 148 B, l. 8-12 (919/920 CE): > > siy ur?? ya? (9) mav?c tuy ?an?pa niv asuv hita? asu(10)v puti? asuv mira? (11) asuv p?k mat? avis ta ya nan (12) ??raya in? ur?? nan > > This seems to mean something like: 'The man who incurs this imprecation, may the black dog, the white dog, the red dog, the four-eyed dog, all of them visit that man's mother!' > There is obviously something similar going on if you look at the different regions of India and of Southeast Asia, despite the differences of language and specific themes chosen to express curses. This asks for comparison. > Whitney mentions curse-images. Harry Falk told me about the 'obscene' images he had noticed on some stone inscriptions at Ratnagiri and in the Orissa State Museum. I happen to have seen and photographed the same last month, so can attach some photos here. (I particularly enjoyed the innocent label for one of the two OSM pieces.) Although I haven't checked the texts of these inscriptions, and am a little unsure about the identification of the sexually aggressive beast, I suppose we see here a depiction of the 'ass-curse' that figures prominently also in text and image in the inscriptions of the ?il?h?ras of the western Deccan. The language used for the curse is there often (always?) Marathi. > The reference for the Karashima article I alluded to is as follows: > Noboru Karashima, "New Imprecations in Tamil Inscriptions and J?ti Formation", in: idem, Ancient to Medieval: South Indian Society in Transition, Delhi: OUP, 2009. > Whitney mentions the Telaga Batu Old Malay inscription, which is indeed one of the most important (and most studied) inscriptions of Indonesia. It raises the problem of whether we make a difference between 'oaths' and 'curses'. The Sanskrit and vernacular languages may not make a clear lexical difference, at least the forms derived from ?ap in Sanskrit and borrowed into many vernaculars --- see Cham ?an?pa above --- might be ambivalent from the English language point of view. But it seems to me there is a difference implied at least by the difference in structural composition. The Telaga Batu text is different in several ways from the common 'curses' in Indonesian land-grants. The (to Southeast Asianists) famous epigraphical Khmer 'oath' of allegiance to S?ryavarman I is likewise fundamentally different from the 'curses' that are very common in Khmer epigraphy (both Sanskrit and vernacular). These 'oaths' make up the entire text or at least the bulk of it, whereas the 'curses' that started this thread normally stand at the end and are a relatively minor part of the inscription's message. Actually I think the mentioned 'oaths' also use a different vocabulary for 'oaths' (vaddhapratij?? in the Khmer, sumpah in the Malay case) than they do for curses (loan-derivatives of ?ap). > I hope this has at least begun to address the interesting points raised in response to my query. Thank you for the tasty food for thought. > Best wishes, > Arlo GriffithsEFEO/Jakarta > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 17:10:17 +0000 > > From: wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK > > Subject: [INDOLOGY] curses > > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > > > I posted this a few hours ago; I think that perhaps it didn't go through to > > the list since it contained multiple addresses. Re-posted, with a few typos > > corrected. Apologies to anyone seeing this for the second time. > > > > wc > > > > > > Dear Arlo, > > > > I second Tim's interest in this great topic, and I look forward to hearing > > what your student turns up. I can add a few references to what have already > > been mentioned: Michael Willis has recently discussed the imprecatory > > formulae found in Gupta and post-Gupta copperplates; see his The Archaeology > > of Hindu Ritual (Cambridge, 2009), pp. 84-88. Especially interesting here > > are his comments (esp p. 86 and nn. 27-29) on the locus of attribution to > > these stereotypical verses in the Mah?bh?rata's ??vamedhikaparvan. > > > > I largely agree with Tim's suggestion that these imprecations are very often > > given in Sanskrit, even in otherwise non-Sanskrit grants: very broadly, > > there's a magical efficacy to the use of the language (or to tatsama > > vocabulary in vernacular texts, as Tim suggests) here that would reward > > further scrutiny. It is, however, not always the case that curses must be > > couched in Sanskrit, as the title Karashima's article (for which I would > > appreciate the reference) would seem to indicate. I'm very much an amateur > > in Southeast Asian materials, but there is the fascinating case of the > > Telaga Batu inscription of ca. 686 CE edited by de Casparis in his Selected > > Inscriptions for the 7th the 9th Centuries AD (Masa Baru, Bandung: 1956), > > pp. 15-46. This very interesting record (and forgive me if this is common > > knowledge among Indonesianists) takes the form of a n?ga-headed stele that > > ends in a spouted ledge, the text of the inscription is a sort of loyalty > > oath that was evidently meant to be recited prior to drinking water poured > > down the incised surface of the record. Such anyway was de Casparis' > > interpretation; some of the philological details of his reading were > > questioned by K. Adelaar (in "The relevance of Salako for Proto-Malayic and > > for Old Malay epigraphy." Bijdragen tot de Taal-, Land- en Volkenkunde 148 > > (1992), no: 3/4, Leiden, 381-408), but not his overall interpretation of the > > inscription's unusual magical function. > > > > Finally, in addition to verbal curse formulae, there are instances of > > inscribed curse-images, as well. An example of this can be seen in, e.g. > > the Rajapura plates of Madhur?ntakadeva (edited by Hira Lala, EI 9: 23, pp. > > 174-181, and esp. plate iii b facing p. 179). This particular image is of > > what the editor rather mildly describes as "a woman pursued by a donkey"; it > > is poorly executed, but obviously and deliberately obscene. > > > > I am copying this message to Daud Ali, who is not on the list but who has > > worked on both the Telaga Batu record and the curse-images. He may have > > much more to share with you. > > > > Best, > > > > Whitney -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: OSM-curse1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 456804 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: RG-curse2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 237203 bytes Desc: not available URL: From McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Thu Feb 24 04:04:14 2011 From: McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 11 15:04:14 +1100 Subject: Edited volume on 'peritexts'? Message-ID: <161227091594.23782.15825821079766916620.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 325 Lines: 12 Dear Colleagues I am hoping that one of you erudite folk might be able to remind me of the title of a recently published edited volume on Sanskritic 'peritexts', which includes a chapter with a title like, 'Why we should read pra?astas'. Please reply off-list to mccomas.taylor at anu.edu.au Thanks in advance McComas From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Thu Feb 24 18:41:59 2011 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 11 19:41:59 +0100 Subject: meaning of ship's name Quedagh In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F167DCAE230@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227091613.23782.14675757961647693588.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 929 Lines: 18 Am 24.02.2011 um 17:36 schrieb Thrasher, Allen: > I have been asked for the proper pronunciation of the name of the ship Quedagh Merchant < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quedagh_Merchant >, an Indian ship , owned by a man named Coirgi and hired by a group of Armenian merchants. As the Wiki article elaborates, it was taken by the famous Scottish privateer William Kidd who eventually, in 1701, was hanged for piracy on account of it. "Quedagh" means nothing in any Indian language I can think of, whether pronounced something like Kwedagh or Kyudagh; could it be Persian? I find it hard to make anything out of Coirgi either. "Quedagh" is not in Hobson-Jobson. Any suggestions appreciated. Perhaps it refers to Kedah in Malaysia. The older Portuguese spelling was "Queda" or "Quedah". Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn From rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU Sat Feb 26 05:57:40 2011 From: rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU (Alexander von Rospatt) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 11 21:57:40 -0800 Subject: Research Assistant Internships at the Mangalam Research Center for Buddhist Languages, Berkeley Message-ID: <161227091618.23782.725584527468403782.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3577 Lines: 51 Dear Colleagues, I have been asked to post the below job openings on the Indology list. Any questions should be directed to Renate Marx at renate at mangalamcenters.org. Alexander von Rospatt ------------------ RESEARCH ASSISTANT INTERNSHIPS Mangalam Research Center for Buddhist Languages, Berkeley, CA POSITION TITLE: Research Assistant Intern (6 positions open) DUTIES/JOB DESCRIPTION: Research assistants will participate in the creation of a database for translation and translation-related research. The internship is demanding, but also offers very unusual opportunities for learning about Buddhist languages, thought, and terminology that make this program an excellent choice for students considering an academic career or career as a translator. Interns will be closely supervised in their work by postdoctoral fellows and will take classes related to their training, including advanced language classes. They will be able to attend symposia held year-round featuring leading Buddhist scholars from around the world, and to take advantage of the cultural and educational resources of the University of California, located just two blocks away. Interns will also be eligible to take classes in Buddhist meditation, Tibetan yoga, and related teachings at a nearby Buddhist institute at no charge. The kinds of work done by research assistants will vary depending on their skills, but could include the following: - review of texts in canonical languages or translations in Western languages to extract relevant terms and terminology - research on language, linguistics, history, and Buddhist thought in primary and secondary sources - data entry - work on database design - coding of texts according to the standards of the Text Encoding Initiative HOURS: Internships will start in October 2011. Research assistants work 6 days a week, 8:30 AM ? 5 PM; however, time is built into the schedule for classes and study. A one-year commitment is required. REQUIREMENTS: - Applicants must have completed a BA before entering the program, preferably with a major or minor related to Buddhist studies. - A minimum of two years of formal instruction in Sanskrit, Pali, Classical Tibetan, or Classical Buddhist Chinese. - Computer-programming and database-related skills are desirable but not necessary. - Applicants should be familiar with basic Buddhist teachings. - Excellent attention to detail, flexibility, and a willingness to take instruction. - Willingness to work in a setting shaped by Buddhist principles (including vegetarian meals); however, applicants need not have a personal involvement in Buddhist teachings or practices. COMPENSATION: This is an unpaid internship position. Research assistants will receive room and board and a living expenses stipend of $150 monthly. HOW TO APPLY: Submit an email expressing interest to the email address given below. MRCBL will send you an application form together with a request for additional documentation. Completed applications must be received by April 4, 2011. You will be asked to submit one letter of recommendation from a faculty member in a position to assess your suitability for the program and your skills, so you may wish to make arrangements for such a letter in advance. Notifications of acceptance will be sent out by May 2, 2011. CONTACT: Renate Marx renate at mangalamcenters.org Please visit http://www.mangalamresearch.org for information about the Mangalam Research Center. From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Sat Feb 26 17:57:57 2011 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 11 11:57:57 -0600 Subject: Dandin Message-ID: <161227091620.23782.11748277697160625728.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 219 Lines: 6 Can anyone direct me to an electronic version of Da??in's Da?amuk?racarita? GRETIL has one with only three chapter, and the other version downloaded from Sansknet -- but the link is broken. Thanks. Patrick Olivelle From palaniappa at AOL.COM Sat Feb 26 21:18:33 2011 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 11 16:18:33 -0500 Subject: curses In-Reply-To: <1E12F4DEC0044CF0A7BB399CA32FC61B@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <161227091623.23782.15229702428739570065.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1260 Lines: 39 There is nothing unique about the cow being black. Just now I realized that with the current default reply in the list going to the original poster, the following response I had sent a few days ago did not go to the list. "There are many Tamil inscriptions where the curse is entirely in Tamil. Like the Kannada inscription quoted by Tim, many talk about incurring the sin of killing a tawny cow on the bank of the Ganges. There are also several where the 'indignity' of giving the wife to a low caste person is mentioned. There are also instances where one is cursed as being the husband of one's own mother, etc. The variety of such curses is seen more in northern Tamil Nadu." Thus there are inscriptions where the tawny cow ('kur?l pacu' or 'kapilai' being the Tamil terms) is mentioned too. For example, see SII 3, no. 130) Regards, Palaniappan -----Original Message----- From: JKirkpatrick To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Wed, Feb 23, 2011 11:03 am Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] curses A simple question, if I may: in the examples posted by Tim Lubin, why must the cow be black? What is the symbolic motive in the sin of killing a black cow, instead of any old cow? Thanks and best wishes, Joanna Kirkpatrick From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Sun Feb 27 17:56:06 2011 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 11 11:56:06 -0600 Subject: Da=?utf-8?Q?=C5=9Bakum=C4=81racarita?= Message-ID: <161227091625.23782.14971223451415854075.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 118 Lines: 6 Thanks to all who helped me with the text. I have got it now in a wonderful Unicode format. Thanks again. Patrick From conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Sun Feb 27 22:13:44 2011 From: conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Frank Conlon) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 11 14:13:44 -0800 Subject: Fwd: Re: [INDOLOGY] default reply behaviour (was: curses) In-Reply-To: <1298836366.4d6aab8ede269@webmail.sas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <161227091661.23782.8871703212281189854.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 573 Lines: 20 Colleagues: I agree with Rosane and others--default reply to list offers great potential value to list members. While it is true that occasionally a member sends a private message and broadcasts it to the world, I suspect it is infrequent enough (and sometimes so "interesting"), that the alternative is not really satisfactory. Frank Frank F. Conlon Professor Emeritus of History, South Asian Studies & Comparative Religion University of Washington Seattle, WA 98195-3560 USA Co-editor, H-ASIA Managing Director, Bibliography of Asian Studies Online From palaniappa at AOL.COM Sun Feb 27 19:21:34 2011 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 11 14:21:34 -0500 Subject: default reply behaviour (was: curses) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091631.23782.2716619804110909790.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1121 Lines: 47 Dominik, I would prefer that the default reply go to the list. Regards, Palaniappan -----Original Message----- From: Dominik Wujastyk To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:18 pm Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] default reply behaviour (was: curses) On 26 February 2011 22:18, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: > > Just now I realized that with the current default reply in the list going > to the original poster, the following response I had sent a few days ago did > not go to the list. > Can we review this? It's a change that was made in the default behaviour of the INDOLOGY list, by popular request last year. It annoys me a lot, but, unlike Muammar al-Gaddafi, I'm perfectly willing to abide by the will of the majority. The problem we were trying to solve was private replies to colleagues on the list that inadvertently became public. Perhaps that is a greater danger than the annoyance of posts not going to the list at all. How do others feel? Reply to sender, or reply to list at large? Best, Dominik INDOLOGY committee member From palaniappa at AOL.COM Sun Feb 27 19:31:48 2011 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 11 14:31:48 -0500 Subject: default reply behaviour (was: curses) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091634.23782.1237442846937230875.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1467 Lines: 45 Dominik, I would like to point out that in response to Patrick Olivelle's recent query regarding Dandin, no message was posted to the list. But Patrick has received many responses as mentioned by him in his second post. While there may be cases where people might send information offline deliberately, I wonder if any Indologists simply hit 'Reply' and the responses went to Patrick alone and not to the list. Regards, Palaniappan -----Original Message----- From: Dominik Wujastyk To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:18 pm Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] default reply behaviour (was: curses) On 26 February 2011 22:18, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: > > Just now I realized that with the current default reply in the list going > to the original poster, the following response I had sent a few days ago did > not go to the list. > Can we review this? It's a change that was made in the default behaviour of the INDOLOGY list, by popular request last year. It annoys me a lot, but, unlike Muammar al-Gaddafi, I'm perfectly willing to abide by the will of the majority. The problem we were trying to solve was private replies to colleagues on the list that inadvertently became public. Perhaps that is a greater danger than the annoyance of posts not going to the list at all. How do others feel? Reply to sender, or reply to list at large? Best, Dominik INDOLOGY committee member From rrocher at SAS.UPENN.EDU Sun Feb 27 19:52:46 2011 From: rrocher at SAS.UPENN.EDU (Rosane Rocher) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 11 14:52:46 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: [INDOLOGY] default reply behaviour (was: curses) Message-ID: <161227091639.23782.317312960022203701.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1443 Lines: 42 Having lived with both systems, I favor default reply to the list. It seems more sensible to me to put the burden of creating an address on individuals who occasionally wish to send private messages than on all participants to list discussions. Rosane Rocher ----- Forwarded message from Dominik Wujastyk ----- Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 20:18:10 +0100 From: Dominik Wujastyk Reply-To: Dominik Wujastyk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] default reply behaviour (was: curses) To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk On 26 February 2011 22:18, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: > > Just now I realized that with the current default reply in the list going > to the original poster, the following response I had sent a few days ago did > not go to the list. > Can we review this? It's a change that was made in the default behaviour of the INDOLOGY list, by popular request last year. It annoys me a lot, but, unlike Muammar al-Gaddafi, I'm perfectly willing to abide by the will of the majority. The problem we were trying to solve was private replies to colleagues on the list that inadvertently became public. Perhaps that is a greater danger than the annoyance of posts not going to the list at all. How do others feel? Reply to sender, or reply to list at large? Best, Dominik INDOLOGY committee member ----- End forwarded message ----- From emstern at VERIZON.NET Sun Feb 27 19:57:38 2011 From: emstern at VERIZON.NET (Elliot M. Stern) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 11 14:57:38 -0500 Subject: default reply behaviour (was: curses) In-Reply-To: <8CDA4CC1A6E3F9E-4BC-2AD53@webmail-m138.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <161227091641.23782.15074446687450790813.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2329 Lines: 67 Palaniappan, I sent the reply to Patrick directly, because I included a pdf file created from the GRETIL Unicode version of da?akum?racarita, and felt I needn't share it with all list members. Replying to the list requires little more additional effort than hitting Reply All rather than Reply. I then move the Indology address to the To field, and delete the previous sender's address. If I recall correctly, the decision to set Reply to the individual was intended to reduce the number of private messages misdirected to the list. Best wishes, Elliot Elliot M. Stern 552 South 48th Street Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029 United States of America telephone: 215-747-6204 mobile: 267-240-8418 emstern at verizon.net On 27 Feb 2011, at 2:31 PM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: > Dominik, > > > I would like to point out that in response to Patrick Olivelle's recent query regarding Dandin, no message was posted to the list. But Patrick has received many responses as mentioned by him in his second post. While there may be cases where people might send information offline deliberately, I wonder if any Indologists simply hit 'Reply' and the responses went to Patrick alone and not to the list. > > > Regards, > Palaniappan > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dominik Wujastyk > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Sent: Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:18 pm > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] default reply behaviour (was: curses) > > > On 26 February 2011 22:18, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: > >> >> Just now I realized that with the current default reply in the list going >> to the original poster, the following response I had sent a few days ago did >> not go to the list. >> > > Can we review this? It's a change that was made in the default behaviour of > the INDOLOGY list, by popular request last year. It annoys me a lot, but, > unlike Muammar al-Gaddafi, I'm perfectly willing to abide by the will of the > majority. > > The problem we were trying to solve was private replies to colleagues on the > list that inadvertently became public. Perhaps that is a greater danger > than the annoyance of posts not going to the list at all. > > How do others feel? Reply to sender, or reply to list at large? > > Best, > Dominik > INDOLOGY committee member > > From fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM Sun Feb 27 19:59:19 2011 From: fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM (Benjamin Fleming) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 11 14:59:19 -0500 Subject: default reply behaviour (was: curses) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091643.23782.10150953491970641189.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1476 Lines: 48 I prefer the new system. We have received NO private emails mistakenly sent to the list since the changes were made. This is a good thing, as far as I am concerned. Best, Ben Fleming -- Benjamin Fleming Visiting Scholar, Dept. of Religious Studies, University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street, Claudia Cohen Hall, #234 Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A. Telephone - 215-746-7792 http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~bfleming > Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 20:18:10 +0100 > From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] default reply behaviour (was: curses) > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > On 26 February 2011 22:18, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: > > > > > Just now I realized that with the current default reply in the list going > > to the original poster, the following response I had sent a few days ago did > > not go to the list. > > > > Can we review this? It's a change that was made in the default behaviour of > the INDOLOGY list, by popular request last year. It annoys me a lot, but, > unlike Muammar al-Gaddafi, I'm perfectly willing to abide by the will of the > majority. > > The problem we were trying to solve was private replies to colleagues on the > list that inadvertently became public. Perhaps that is a greater danger > than the annoyance of posts not going to the list at all. > > How do others feel? Reply to sender, or reply to list at large? > > Best, > Dominik > INDOLOGY committee member From emstern at VERIZON.NET Sun Feb 27 20:02:39 2011 From: emstern at VERIZON.NET (Elliot M. Stern) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 11 15:02:39 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: [INDOLOGY] default reply behaviour (was: curses) In-Reply-To: <1298836366.4d6aab8ede269@webmail.sas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <161227091646.23782.5691654419781472227.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1830 Lines: 57 I should also have said earlier that I have no objection to returning to default reply to the list. Elliot M. Stern 552 South 48th Street Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029 United States of America telephone: 215-747-6204 mobile: 267-240-8418 emstern at verizon.net On 27 Feb 2011, at 2:52 PM, Rosane Rocher wrote: > Having lived with both systems, I favor default reply to the list. It seems > more sensible to me to put the burden of creating an address on individuals who > occasionally wish to send private messages than on all participants to list > discussions. > > Rosane Rocher > > ----- Forwarded message from Dominik Wujastyk ----- > Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 20:18:10 +0100 > From: Dominik Wujastyk > Reply-To: Dominik Wujastyk > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] default reply behaviour (was: curses) > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > On 26 February 2011 22:18, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: > >> >> Just now I realized that with the current default reply in the list going >> to the original poster, the following response I had sent a few days ago did >> not go to the list. >> > > Can we review this? It's a change that was made in the default behaviour of > the INDOLOGY list, by popular request last year. It annoys me a lot, but, > unlike Muammar al-Gaddafi, I'm perfectly willing to abide by the will of the > majority. > > The problem we were trying to solve was private replies to colleagues on the > list that inadvertently became public. Perhaps that is a greater danger > than the annoyance of posts not going to the list at all. > > How do others feel? Reply to sender, or reply to list at large? > > Best, > Dominik > INDOLOGY committee member > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- From slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU Sun Feb 27 21:25:24 2011 From: slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU (Steven Lindquist) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 11 15:25:24 -0600 Subject: default reply behaviour (was: curses) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091658.23782.15343755547284737191.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1709 Lines: 49 I was one of those who argued for the new system and I must say that I strongly prefer it. The change came about, if we'll recall, after a series of increasingly embarrassing (and potentially damaging) emails in a very short time span. The other benefit of the new system is that what is sent to the list is intentional and this minor inconvenience tends to decrease less relevant emails. I prefer this, though I can understand why some might not. My best, Steven -- Steven Lindquist, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Religious Studies Southern Methodist University Homepage: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui -- > > >> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 20:18:10 +0100 >> From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM >> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] default reply behaviour (was: curses) >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> >> On 26 February 2011 22:18, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: >> >>> >>> Just now I realized that with the current default reply in the list going >>> to the original poster, the following response I had sent a few days ago did >>> not go to the list. >>> >> >> Can we review this? It's a change that was made in the default behaviour of >> the INDOLOGY list, by popular request last year. It annoys me a lot, but, >> unlike Muammar al-Gaddafi, I'm perfectly willing to abide by the will of the >> majority. >> >> The problem we were trying to solve was private replies to colleagues on the >> list that inadvertently became public. Perhaps that is a greater danger >> than the annoyance of posts not going to the list at all. >> >> How do others feel? Reply to sender, or reply to list at large? >> >> Best, >> Dominik >> INDOLOGY committee member > From lubint at WLU.EDU Sun Feb 27 20:55:09 2011 From: lubint at WLU.EDU (Lubin, Tim) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 11 15:55:09 -0500 Subject: default reply behaviour (was: curses) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091655.23782.1307487873047499819.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1848 Lines: 44 Hitting "reply-all" to reply to all (i.e., to the list) does not seem a terrible inconvenience to me, and if it saves some people the embarrassment (in some cases, grave embarrassment and harm; in some cases trivial but repeated embarrassment), it might be deemed worthwhile. It seems to me that such unintended broadcasts used to be very frequent. If we do switch back, I suggest that others might do as I do ? instruct one's email program to funnel all messages from INDOLOGY into a separate folder. Most programs have the facility of doing that I think. It then becomes less likely that one would forget that the message was not a personal one. P.S., like Eliot, I replied to Patrick deliberately off-list, and for the same reason. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 2:18 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] default reply behaviour (was: curses) On 26 February 2011 22:18, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: > > Just now I realized that with the current default reply in the list going > to the original poster, the following response I had sent a few days ago did > not go to the list. > Can we review this? It's a change that was made in the default behaviour of the INDOLOGY list, by popular request last year. It annoys me a lot, but, unlike Muammar al-Gaddafi, I'm perfectly willing to abide by the will of the majority. The problem we were trying to solve was private replies to colleagues on the list that inadvertently became public. Perhaps that is a greater danger than the annoyance of posts not going to the list at all. How do others feel? Reply to sender, or reply to list at large? Best, Dominik INDOLOGY committee member !SIG:4d6aa391185711731119178! From conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Mon Feb 28 00:30:37 2011 From: conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Frank Conlon) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 11 16:30:37 -0800 Subject: Fwd: Re: [INDOLOGY] default reply behaviour (was: curses) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091666.23782.14194176535043057743.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2137 Lines: 57 Steven, I do take your point. I think, upon reflection, that I can live with either system too. I find it strange that a group of scholars would reproduce the error time and time again. I say that without going back to the archives to determine if we had 'repeat offenders' or if each wrong post was a 'one-off' event. My preference for 'reply to list' is that I benefit from following the series of responses to queries made to the list. cheers, Frank Frank F. Conlon Professor Emeritus of History, South Asian Studies & Comparative Religion University of Washington Seattle, WA 98195-3560 USA Co-editor, H-ASIA Managing Director, Bibliography of Asian Studies Online On Sun, 27 Feb 2011, Steven Lindquist wrote: > But the problem, Frank, was that these weren't infrequent at all (a few a month, at the least; right before the change, several within hours). As I said then, of the 8 or so professional lists I belong to (some moderated, some not; some with 'reply to list,' some not), I had never received anywhere near the number of accidental emails (or radically inappropriate emails for public consumption) as on this one. > > But, at the end of the day, I can live with either system (I did what Tim does and will do it again should we change back). > > My best, > > Steven > > -- > Steven Lindquist, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Religious Studies > Southern Methodist University > Homepage: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui > -- > > On Feb 27, 2011, at 4:13 PM, Frank Conlon wrote: > >> Colleagues: >> >> I agree with Rosane and others--default reply to list offers great potential value to list members. While it is true that occasionally a member sends a private message and broadcasts it to the world, I suspect it is infrequent enough (and sometimes so "interesting"), that the alternative is not really satisfactory. >> >> Frank >> >> Frank F. Conlon >> Professor Emeritus of History, South Asian >> Studies & Comparative Religion >> University of Washington >> Seattle, WA 98195-3560 USA >> Co-editor, H-ASIA >> Managing Director, Bibliography of Asian Studies Online > From slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU Sun Feb 27 23:22:28 2011 From: slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU (Steven Lindquist) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 11 17:22:28 -0600 Subject: Fwd: Re: [INDOLOGY] default reply behaviour (was: curses) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091663.23782.17166214243498255944.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1356 Lines: 34 But the problem, Frank, was that these weren't infrequent at all (a few a month, at the least; right before the change, several within hours). As I said then, of the 8 or so professional lists I belong to (some moderated, some not; some with 'reply to list,' some not), I had never received anywhere near the number of accidental emails (or radically inappropriate emails for public consumption) as on this one. But, at the end of the day, I can live with either system (I did what Tim does and will do it again should we change back). My best, Steven -- Steven Lindquist, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Religious Studies Southern Methodist University Homepage: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui -- On Feb 27, 2011, at 4:13 PM, Frank Conlon wrote: > Colleagues: > > I agree with Rosane and others--default reply to list offers great potential value to list members. While it is true that occasionally a member sends a private message and broadcasts it to the world, I suspect it is infrequent enough (and sometimes so "interesting"), that the alternative is not really satisfactory. > > Frank > > Frank F. Conlon > Professor Emeritus of History, South Asian > Studies & Comparative Religion > University of Washington > Seattle, WA 98195-3560 USA > Co-editor, H-ASIA > Managing Director, Bibliography of Asian Studies Online From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Feb 27 19:18:10 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 11 20:18:10 +0100 Subject: default reply behaviour (was: curses) Message-ID: <161227091628.23782.3494092709435807721.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 823 Lines: 25 On 26 February 2011 22:18, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: > > Just now I realized that with the current default reply in the list going > to the original poster, the following response I had sent a few days ago did > not go to the list. > Can we review this? It's a change that was made in the default behaviour of the INDOLOGY list, by popular request last year. It annoys me a lot, but, unlike Muammar al-Gaddafi, I'm perfectly willing to abide by the will of the majority. The problem we were trying to solve was private replies to colleagues on the list that inadvertently became public. Perhaps that is a greater danger than the annoyance of posts not going to the list at all. How do others feel? Reply to sender, or reply to list at large? Best, Dominik INDOLOGY committee member From juergen.neuss at FU-BERLIN.DE Sun Feb 27 19:34:35 2011 From: juergen.neuss at FU-BERLIN.DE (=?utf-8?Q?J=C3=BCrgen_Neuss?=) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 11 20:34:35 +0100 Subject: reply Message-ID: <161227091636.23782.7405423894805561039.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 433 Lines: 22 dear dominik, i was not aware of that change, but wondered why discussions had become so few. i also would appreciate if replies go by default to the list, not individuals. cheers jn -- ???????????????????????????????????????????????? Dr. J?rgen Neu? Freie Universit?t Berlin Institut f?r die Sprachen und Kulturen S?dasiens Habelschwerdter Allee 45 D-14195 Berlin ?????????????????????????? juergen.neuss at fu-berlin.de From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Mon Feb 28 01:38:33 2011 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 11 20:38:33 -0500 Subject: EJVS 18-1: Chandrasekaran on Pleonastic Dravidian Formations Message-ID: <161227091669.23782.30884090732286398.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 832 Lines: 34 Dear List members, it is with great pleasure that we announce this year's first issue of the Electronic Journal of Vedic Studies VOL. 18 (2011), ISSUE 1 (February 16) Pleonastic Compounding: An Ancient Dravidian Word Structure by Periannan Chandrasekaran The paper is important for several reasons: it reveals a unique form of compound nouns in Proto-/EarlyDravidian, and as such it is quite relevant for the etymology of a number of Dravidian loans into Vedic Enjoy! M. WItzel > ============ > Michael Witzel > witzel at fas.harvard.edu > > > Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University > 1 Bow Street, > Cambridge MA 02138, USA > > phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; > my direct line: 617- 496 2990 From zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE Sun Feb 27 20:07:53 2011 From: zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE (Robert Zydenbos) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 11 21:07:53 +0100 Subject: default reply behaviour (was: curses) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091648.23782.15031763345600575437.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 483 Lines: 15 Personally I don't really mind very much whether it's one way or the other. But I think I slightly prefer a default answering to the list -- after all, you read something from the list and respond to that (i.e., to the list), so that would seem the more logical default behaviour. Robert Zydenbos On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 20:18:10 +0100, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Can we review this? [...] > How do others feel? Reply to sender, or reply to list at large? From kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Sun Feb 27 20:33:06 2011 From: kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Kellner, Birgit) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 11 21:33:06 +0100 Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] default reply behaviour (was: curses) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091650.23782.2701300464540108141.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1343 Lines: 36 The process (hit "reply all" to reply to the list, then remove individual sender from "to"-field) is simple enough, in my opinion, and having fewer list-members embarrassing themselves and others is a great advantage! Best, Birgit Kellner ________________________________________ Von: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] im Auftrag von Dominik Wujastyk [wujastyk at GMAIL.COM] Gesendet: Sonntag, 27. Februar 2011 20:18 An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] default reply behaviour (was: curses) On 26 February 2011 22:18, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: > > Just now I realized that with the current default reply in the list going > to the original poster, the following response I had sent a few days ago did > not go to the list. > Can we review this? It's a change that was made in the default behaviour of the INDOLOGY list, by popular request last year. It annoys me a lot, but, unlike Muammar al-Gaddafi, I'm perfectly willing to abide by the will of the majority. The problem we were trying to solve was private replies to colleagues on the list that inadvertently became public. Perhaps that is a greater danger than the annoyance of posts not going to the list at all. How do others feel? Reply to sender, or reply to list at large? Best, Dominik INDOLOGY committee member From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Sun Feb 27 20:47:32 2011 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 11 21:47:32 +0100 Subject: default reply behaviour (was: curses) Message-ID: <161227091653.23782.12406748013346911079.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1817 Lines: 57 Dear Dominik, I am probably a member of 20 mailing lists (including many purely Tamil google mailing lists) (although I read a very tiny fraction of what is posted on them, but I archive the messages in order to create linguistic corpora for possible future reference on Modern Tamil spontaneous usage) and I see that all of them have "reply to the list" as their behaviour because that is the normal/standard definition of a mailing list. Last year, I resisted a suggestion to switch to the "reply to the sender" behaviour on the [slow trafic] CTamil list for which I am the owner. Typically, less than 1% of list members do mistakes on slow trafic mailing lists (and it seems never to happen on heavy trafic mailing lists) It seems the choice for you is between being the owner of a very slow trafic mailing list and being the owner of a moderately slow trafic mailing list ;-) Cheers -- Jean-Luc On 27/02/2011 20:18, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > On 26 February 2011 22:18, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappanwrote: > >> >> Just now I realized that with the current default reply in the list going >> to the original poster, the following response I had sent a few days ago did >> not go to the list. >> > > Can we review this? It's a change that was made in the default behaviour of > the INDOLOGY list, by popular request last year. It annoys me a lot, but, > unlike Muammar al-Gaddafi, I'm perfectly willing to abide by the will of the > majority. > > The problem we were trying to solve was private replies to colleagues on the > list that inadvertently became public. Perhaps that is a greater danger > than the annoyance of posts not going to the list at all. > > How do others feel? Reply to sender, or reply to list at large? > > Best, > Dominik > INDOLOGY committee member > From hwtull at MSN.COM Mon Feb 28 03:07:27 2011 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 11 22:07:27 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: [INDOLOGY] default reply behaviour (was: curses) In-Reply-To: <1298836366.4d6aab8ede269@webmail.sas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <161227091671.23782.12888072548584315612.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3102 Lines: 90 It seems to me that the point of this list is that it creates a venue for a highly accessible community forum. That an occasional "private" message creeps in does not seem to me to be an adequate reason for abrogating what stands at the center of the whole thing--namely, the ability to seamlessly "reply to the list." In these days of "cut and paste," we should all be aware that what goes into any electronic communication is really not "private;" the old "for your eyes only" style message is probably best left for other methods of communication. Herman Tull Princeton, NJ -------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Conlon" Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 7:30 PM To: Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Re: [INDOLOGY] default reply behaviour (was: curses) > Steven, I do take your point. I think, upon reflection, that I can live > with either system too. I find it strange that a group of scholars would > reproduce the error time and time again. I say that without going back to > the archives to determine if we had 'repeat offenders' or if each wrong > post was a 'one-off' event. My preference for 'reply to list' is that I > benefit from following the series of responses to queries made to the > list. > > cheers, > > Frank > > Frank F. Conlon > Professor Emeritus of History, South Asian > Studies & Comparative Religion > University of Washington > Seattle, WA 98195-3560 USA > Co-editor, H-ASIA > Managing Director, Bibliography of Asian Studies Online > > On Sun, 27 Feb 2011, Steven Lindquist wrote: > >> But the problem, Frank, was that these weren't infrequent at all (a few a >> month, at the least; right before the change, several within hours). As >> I said then, of the 8 or so professional lists I belong to (some >> moderated, some not; some with 'reply to list,' some not), I had never >> received anywhere near the number of accidental emails (or radically >> inappropriate emails for public consumption) as on this one. >> >> But, at the end of the day, I can live with either system (I did what Tim >> does and will do it again should we change back). >> >> My best, >> >> Steven >> >> -- >> Steven Lindquist, Ph.D. >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Religious Studies >> Southern Methodist University >> Homepage: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui >> -- >> >> On Feb 27, 2011, at 4:13 PM, Frank Conlon wrote: >> >>> Colleagues: >>> >>> I agree with Rosane and others--default reply to list offers great >>> potential value to list members. While it is true that occasionally a >>> member sends a private message and broadcasts it to the world, I suspect >>> it is infrequent enough (and sometimes so "interesting"), that the >>> alternative is not really satisfactory. >>> >>> Frank >>> >>> Frank F. Conlon >>> Professor Emeritus of History, South Asian >>> Studies & Comparative Religion >>> University of Washington >>> Seattle, WA 98195-3560 USA >>> Co-editor, H-ASIA >>> Managing Director, Bibliography of Asian Studies Online >> > From vjroebuck at BTINTERNET.COM Mon Feb 28 07:20:41 2011 From: vjroebuck at BTINTERNET.COM (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 11 07:20:41 +0000 Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] default reply behaviour (was: curses) In-Reply-To: <1ED2F08480CEB74FB91BD2BC070F8E013784BFCF8B@MBX02.ad.uni-heidelberg.de> Message-ID: <161227091674.23782.5931472732612363458.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1561 Lines: 42 Yes, but all the other Lists use the other method, so I practically never remember. Valerie J Roebuck On 27 Feb 2011, at 20:33, Kellner, Birgit wrote: > The process (hit "reply all" to reply to the list, then remove individual sender from "to"-field) is simple enough, in my opinion, and having fewer list-members embarrassing themselves and others is a great advantage! > > Best, > > Birgit Kellner > ________________________________________ > Von: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] im Auftrag von Dominik Wujastyk [wujastyk at GMAIL.COM] > Gesendet: Sonntag, 27. Februar 2011 20:18 > An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] default reply behaviour (was: curses) > > On 26 February 2011 22:18, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: > >> >> Just now I realized that with the current default reply in the list going >> to the original poster, the following response I had sent a few days ago did >> not go to the list. >> > > Can we review this? It's a change that was made in the default behaviour of > the INDOLOGY list, by popular request last year. It annoys me a lot, but, > unlike Muammar al-Gaddafi, I'm perfectly willing to abide by the will of the > majority. > > The problem we were trying to solve was private replies to colleagues on the > list that inadvertently became public. Perhaps that is a greater danger > than the annoyance of posts not going to the list at all. > > How do others feel? Reply to sender, or reply to list at large? > > Best, > Dominik > INDOLOGY committee member From vjroebuck at BTINTERNET.COM Mon Feb 28 07:28:05 2011 From: vjroebuck at BTINTERNET.COM (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 11 07:28:05 +0000 Subject: Fwd: Re: [INDOLOGY] default reply behaviour (was: curses) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091677.23782.15423222903825955399.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1873 Lines: 40 If you use Mac Mail, it's actually about 5 steps, to Reply All and then remove the individual sender's email and move the 'Indology' address from 'cc.' to 'to'. That's not counting the original 2 when you accidentally reply just to the individual and then delete it. When I get emails that are not meant to be public, I stop reading and delete them as soon as I realise. I would hope that we'd all do that. Valerie On 27 Feb 2011, at 23:22, Steven Lindquist wrote: > But the problem, Frank, was that these weren't infrequent at all (a few a month, at the least; right before the change, several within hours). As I said then, of the 8 or so professional lists I belong to (some moderated, some not; some with 'reply to list,' some not), I had never received anywhere near the number of accidental emails (or radically inappropriate emails for public consumption) as on this one. > > But, at the end of the day, I can live with either system (I did what Tim does and will do it again should we change back). > > My best, > > Steven > > -- > Steven Lindquist, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Religious Studies > Southern Methodist University > Homepage: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui > -- > > On Feb 27, 2011, at 4:13 PM, Frank Conlon wrote: > >> Colleagues: >> >> I agree with Rosane and others--default reply to list offers great potential value to list members. While it is true that occasionally a member sends a private message and broadcasts it to the world, I suspect it is infrequent enough (and sometimes so "interesting"), that the alternative is not really satisfactory. >> >> Frank >> >> Frank F. Conlon >> Professor Emeritus of History, South Asian >> Studies & Comparative Religion >> University of Washington >> Seattle, WA 98195-3560 USA >> Co-editor, H-ASIA >> Managing Director, Bibliography of Asian Studies Online From wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK Mon Feb 28 14:31:15 2011 From: wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK (Whitney Cox) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 11 14:31:15 +0000 Subject: Fwd: Islamicate South Asia lecturership at SOAS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091679.23782.14691481389394545984.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3634 Lines: 96 Dear friends, For your information. Please feel free to circulate to any potential candidates, Best, wc ---------- Forwarded message ---------- http://jobs.soas.ac.uk/fe/tpl_soasnet01.asp?s=hNwYvBGdQoFRwTtFol&jobid=54260,0212576276&key=11460394&c=596598511423&pagestamp=sefrekgcrgfgnwtgpr Lecturer in Islamicate South Asia Vacancy Number 000276 Location London Campus Russell Square Post Class Teaching and Research Department / Centre Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia Contract Type Permanent Closing date for applications 25 March 2011 *?32,106 - ?46,150 p.a. inclusive of London Allowance* The School wishes to appoint a scholar with an outstanding publication record and with active research plans, who will contribute to the Department's ability to retain top research recognition in the Research Excellence Framework (REF 2014) in the UK. You will have expertise in literature, cultural studies, popular culture or media, and teaching and/or research expertise in Pakistan will be especially welcome. You will ideally hold a PhD in a relevant discipline (literature, media, popular culture), will be fluent in at least one of the languages of Pakistan and will be able to teach and supervise research using materials in that language. You will share responsibility for the new MA in the Study of Contemporary Pakistan and its core course Imagining Pakistan: Culture, Nation and Gender. You will also be expected to contribute to the development of research and teaching of South Asian culture and literature in the Department, including the supervision of dissertations, and to the course offerings for the MAs in Cultural Studies and Comparative Literature taught in the Faculty of Languages and Cultures. You will play a leading role in the development of the new Centre for the Study of Pakistan. Academic contact: Dr Francesca Orsini, Head of the Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia (e-mail: fo at soas.ac.uk). Department?s web-site: http://www.soas.ac.uk/southasia/ *Please attach at least one publication, before you submit your application. * * Interviews are provisionally scheduled for week commencing: 9th May 2011* *SOAS values diversity and aims to be an equal opportunities employer. * ** *Click on the link(s) below to download the job description/person specification* 000276 Further Particulars and Job Description.pdf [image: Click here to apply for this job] Click here to apply for this job [image: Email these job details to a friend] Email these job details to a friend -- Dr Francesca Orsini Reader in the Literatures of North India Head of the Department of South Asia School of Oriental and African Studies Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square London WC1H 0XG email: fo at soas.ac.uk -- Dr. Whitney Cox Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, School of Oriental and African Studies Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square London WC1H 0XG From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Sun Jan 2 11:17:59 2011 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Sun, 02 Jan 11 03:17:59 -0800 Subject: Date of usage of the word Bhaarata to denote India In-Reply-To: <15451_1293261172_1293261172_AANLkTi=yeATX011j_dW9Kuco1B+FxZHC+CmGQtWuoxA2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227091249.23782.3998946933940364453.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1311 Lines: 24 Vi.s.nu-puraa.na 2.3.1: uttara.m yat samudrasya himaadre;s caiva dak.si.nam / var.sa.m tad bhaarata.m naama. bhaaratii yatra/tatra sa.mtati.h // Unless the uncompounded bhaarata referred to a specific region on its own, it would not have appeared in an appositional construction with var.sa. The ViP verse I have cited is followed by verses mentioning the nava-yojana-saahasra extent and listing of the kula-parvatas etc. So, its Bhaarata could not have been very different from the modern pre-Partition India. That the A;sokan inscriptions show awareness of Jambu-dviipa cannot imply that Bhaarata as a country/region name was not known in the time of the inscriptions. The same point can be made with respect to Manu's/Bh.rgu's (2.22) mention of Aaryaavarta. Note also that the context in which the Manu-sm.rti mention occurs is not oriented toward giving a geography of the entire subcontinent. Its principal concern is places suitable for a Brahmin to live. The ViP is usually considered to be a relatively early Puraa.na as I recall. ashok aklujkar On 2010-12-24, at 11:12 PM, Christopher Wallis wrote: > My > author uses Bhaarata to mean "all the land in which tiirthas are found" so > that is clearly not just north India. Does anyone else have any further > evidence to date this usage? From lubint at WLU.EDU Sun Jan 2 16:34:39 2011 From: lubint at WLU.EDU (Lubin, Tim) Date: Sun, 02 Jan 11 11:34:39 -0500 Subject: Burgess: Tamil and Sanskrit Inscriptions In-Reply-To: <20101228061210.AGI89915@mstore02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227091254.23782.2421449341470534721.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 771 Lines: 15 If anyone has access to the following, exceedingly rare volume (so it seems), please contact me off-list -- a scan would be fantastic. I have been surprised at how elusive it is: Burgess, James. 1886. Tamil and Sanskrit inscriptions, with some notes on village antiquities, collected chiefly in the south of the Madras presidency. Interlibrary Loan has failed because the only copies to be found are either too fragile to be sent or the library flatly refused. Google Books has two listings, but no preview, let alone full PDF, even though the book is ancient and never reprinted. DLI and Internet Archive have nothing, either. The book is not even in the IFP library when I checked there. Thanks. Tim Lubin Washington and Lee University lubint at wlu.edu From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Sun Jan 2 07:26:01 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sun, 02 Jan 11 12:56:01 +0530 Subject: Date of usage of the word Bhaarata to denote India In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091252.23782.10614171664025598042.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1898 Lines: 40 That ?the name bh?ratavar?a could have been known in Asoka?s time may not be improbable.? But should bh?rata always qualify a region/land? Cn., Rv 3.53.12 vi?v??mitrasya rak?ati bra?hmeda?? bh??rata? ja?nam. The reference is to a people/tribe.? The name Mah?bh?ratam refers to the great war of the Bharatas Best DB --- On Sun, 2/1/11, Ashok Aklujkar wrote: From: Ashok Aklujkar Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of usage of the word Bhaarata to denote India To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Sunday, 2 January, 2011, 11:17 AM Vi.s.nu-puraa.na 2.3.1: uttara.m yat samudrasya himaadre;s caiva dak.si.nam / var.sa.m tad bhaarata.m naama. bhaaratii yatra/tatra sa.mtati.h // Unless the uncompounded bhaarata referred to a specific region on its own, it would not have appeared in an appositional construction with var.sa. The ViP verse I have cited is followed by verses mentioning the nava-yojana-saahasra extent and listing of the kula-parvatas etc. So, its Bhaarata could not have been very different from the modern pre-Partition India.? That the A;sokan inscriptions show awareness of Jambu-dviipa cannot imply that Bhaarata as a country/region name was not known in the time of the inscriptions. The same point can be made with respect to Manu's/Bh.rgu's (2.22) mention of Aaryaavarta. Note also that the context in which the Manu-sm.rti mention occurs is not oriented toward giving a geography of the entire subcontinent. Its principal concern is places suitable for a Brahmin to live. The ViP is usually considered to be a relatively early Puraa.na as I recall. ashok aklujkar On 2010-12-24, at 11:12 PM, Christopher Wallis wrote: >? My > author uses Bhaarata to mean "all the land in which tiirthas are found" so > that is clearly not just north India.? Does anyone else have any further > evidence to date this usage? From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Sun Jan 2 21:36:40 2011 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Sun, 02 Jan 11 22:36:40 +0100 Subject: Burgess: Tamil and Sanskrit Inscriptions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091257.23782.5799936178606774547.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1366 Lines: 43 This book is listed as being held in Leiden. However, as it is older than 100 years, one cannot check it out (!). I may be able to have someone scan it, but as implied by your message, Tim, that might depend on the condition. If you come up with an alternative in the meanwhile, do let me know. jonathan On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Lubin, Tim wrote: > If anyone has access to the following, exceedingly rare volume (so it > seems), please contact me off-list -- a scan would be fantastic. I have > been surprised at how elusive it is: > > Burgess, James. 1886. > Tamil and Sanskrit inscriptions, with some notes on village antiquities, > collected chiefly in the south of the Madras presidency. > > Interlibrary Loan has failed because the only copies to be found are either > too fragile to be sent or the library flatly refused. Google Books has two > listings, but no preview, let alone full PDF, even though the book is > ancient and never reprinted. DLI and Internet Archive have nothing, either. > The book is not even in the IFP library when I checked there. > > Thanks. > > Tim Lubin > Washington and Lee University > lubint at wlu.edu > -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands From andra.kleb at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Sun Jan 2 21:49:43 2011 From: andra.kleb at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (Andrey Klebanov) Date: Sun, 02 Jan 11 22:49:43 +0100 Subject: Burgess: Tamil and Sanskrit Inscriptions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091260.23782.10484617578805793615.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1911 Lines: 55 it seems that this book is currently being scanned at the library in Goettingen: http://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/index.php?id=146&ppn=PPN641186703 or http://opac.sub.uni-goettingen.de:80/DB=1/SET=5/TTL=1/SHW?FRST=1 probably, one can contact them and ask for a guesstimate about how long it will take before letting anyone else double their efforts. (with some luck, such an inquiry might even accelerate the digitalization) andrey On 02.01.2011, at 22:36, Jonathan Silk wrote: > This book is listed as being held in Leiden. However, as it is older than > 100 years, one cannot check it out (!). I may be able to have someone scan > it, but as implied by your message, Tim, that might depend on the condition. > If you come up with an alternative in the meanwhile, do let me know. > > jonathan > > On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Lubin, Tim wrote: > >> If anyone has access to the following, exceedingly rare volume (so it >> seems), please contact me off-list -- a scan would be fantastic. I have >> been surprised at how elusive it is: >> >> Burgess, James. 1886. >> Tamil and Sanskrit inscriptions, with some notes on village antiquities, >> collected chiefly in the south of the Madras presidency. >> >> Interlibrary Loan has failed because the only copies to be found are either >> too fragile to be sent or the library flatly refused. Google Books has two >> listings, but no preview, let alone full PDF, even though the book is >> ancient and never reprinted. DLI and Internet Archive have nothing, either. >> The book is not even in the IFP library when I checked there. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Tim Lubin >> Washington and Lee University >> lubint at wlu.edu >> > > > > -- > J. Silk > Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden > Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS > Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 > Doelensteeg 16 > 2311 VL Leiden > The Netherlands From venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM Mon Jan 3 08:37:12 2011 From: venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM (venetia ansell) Date: Mon, 03 Jan 11 14:07:12 +0530 Subject: Sanskrit at schools in the West Message-ID: <161227091263.23782.8756975800858424675.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 543 Lines: 14 A very happy new year to all. Could anyone help me by putting me in touch with teachers at Sanskrit schools in the West, or letting me know the names of such schools. I know of St James' in London and John Scottus in Ireland - and have contacts there - so am looking for any schools other than these two. This is in connection with the Sanskrit Book Fair that is being held in Bangalore this week. The organisers are hoping to understand why schools in the West teach Sanskrit. Thank you very much in advance for your help. Best, Venetia From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Jan 4 23:14:05 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Tue, 04 Jan 11 18:14:05 -0500 Subject: looking for book "Goraksh Kimayagar" Message-ID: <161227091265.23782.14637541749344505375.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 547 Lines: 20 A patron in India is looking for a book in Marathi or Hindi of the above title, which I am unable to find (under any plausible spelling in Nagari or romanization) in any bibliographies of the Gorakh Panth, nor in WorldCat. Has anyone ever heard of it? Thanks, Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From lubint at WLU.EDU Wed Jan 5 17:46:27 2011 From: lubint at WLU.EDU (Lubin, Tim) Date: Wed, 05 Jan 11 12:46:27 -0500 Subject: Burgess: Tamil and Sanskrit Inscriptions In-Reply-To: <4F96DF23-137E-42CC-B798-0DCA20635DE6@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <161227091269.23782.8666450561381957171.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2460 Lines: 67 Thank you, Peter Wyzlic alerted me to this. My own library has purchased the Goettingen scan (available now for a fee, but it will eventually become available online as an ebook). so I'm all set. Thanks again to all who contacted me off-list with offers of help. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Andrey Klebanov Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2011 4:50 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Burgess: Tamil and Sanskrit Inscriptions it seems that this book is currently being scanned at the library in Goettingen: http://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/index.php?id=146&ppn=PPN641186703 or http://opac.sub.uni-goettingen.de:80/DB=1/SET=5/TTL=1/SHW?FRST=1 probably, one can contact them and ask for a guesstimate about how long it will take before letting anyone else double their efforts. (with some luck, such an inquiry might even accelerate the digitalization) andrey On 02.01.2011, at 22:36, Jonathan Silk wrote: > This book is listed as being held in Leiden. However, as it is older than > 100 years, one cannot check it out (!). I may be able to have someone scan > it, but as implied by your message, Tim, that might depend on the condition. > If you come up with an alternative in the meanwhile, do let me know. > > jonathan > > On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Lubin, Tim wrote: > >> If anyone has access to the following, exceedingly rare volume (so it >> seems), please contact me off-list -- a scan would be fantastic. I have >> been surprised at how elusive it is: >> >> Burgess, James. 1886. >> Tamil and Sanskrit inscriptions, with some notes on village antiquities, >> collected chiefly in the south of the Madras presidency. >> >> Interlibrary Loan has failed because the only copies to be found are either >> too fragile to be sent or the library flatly refused. Google Books has two >> listings, but no preview, let alone full PDF, even though the book is >> ancient and never reprinted. DLI and Internet Archive have nothing, either. >> The book is not even in the IFP library when I checked there. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Tim Lubin >> Washington and Lee University >> lubint at wlu.edu >> > > > > -- > J. Silk > Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden > Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS > Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 > Doelensteeg 16 > 2311 VL Leiden > The Netherlands !SIG:4d20f30369562243193720! From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Wed Jan 5 16:51:42 2011 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Wed, 05 Jan 11 17:51:42 +0100 Subject: GRETIL update #382 Message-ID: <161227091267.23782.209622355557809614.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 816 Lines: 33 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Badarayana: Brahmasutra (alternative version, revised) Jayatirtha: Nyayasudha, Adhyaya 4 (complete) Madhva: Anuvyakhyana (revised) __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From veerankp at GMAIL.COM Thu Jan 6 13:17:48 2011 From: veerankp at GMAIL.COM (Veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Thu, 06 Jan 11 18:47:48 +0530 Subject: Date of usage of the word Bhaarata to denote India In-Reply-To: <778992.47226.qm@web94805.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227091272.23782.12472512672887471295.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3063 Lines: 89 there are few verses can be quoted here for a rethinking (I am not sure of exact location or numbers of references quoted) ??????? ????? ???????? ??????????? ???????? ??? ?? ?????????? ????????? ?????????? ???????????? quoted in ??????????? ??? ?????? ??????? ????? ??????? ???? ??????? ????? ????? ???????? ????? ???? ????????? ????????????????????????????? ?????????? ?????????? ?????????? ?????????? ????????? ???? ?????? ????????????? ?? ??????? ??????????? ????????? ????? ??????????????????? ?????????? 48.42 ????????? ????? ???? ????????? ?????????? ???????????? 3.65-71 On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya < dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com> wrote: > That the name bh?ratavar?a could have been known in Asoka?s time may not > be improbable. But should bh?rata always qualify a region/land? Cn., Rv > 3.53.12 vi?v??mitrasya rak?ati bra?hmeda?? bh??rata? ja?nam. The reference > is to a people/tribe. The name Mah?bh?ratam refers to the great war of the > Bharatas > Best > DB > > --- On Sun, 2/1/11, Ashok Aklujkar wrote: > > > From: Ashok Aklujkar > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of usage of the word Bhaarata to denote India > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Sunday, 2 January, 2011, 11:17 AM > > > Vi.s.nu-puraa.na 2.3.1: > uttara.m yat samudrasya himaadre;s caiva dak.si.nam / > var.sa.m tad bhaarata.m naama. bhaaratii yatra/tatra sa.mtati.h // > > Unless the uncompounded bhaarata referred to a specific region on its own, > it would not have appeared in an appositional construction with var.sa. > > The ViP verse I have cited is followed by verses mentioning the > nava-yojana-saahasra extent and listing of the kula-parvatas etc. So, its > Bhaarata could not have been very different from the modern pre-Partition > India. > > That the A;sokan inscriptions show awareness of Jambu-dviipa cannot imply > that Bhaarata as a country/region name was not known in the time of the > inscriptions. The same point can be made with respect to Manu's/Bh.rgu's > (2.22) mention of Aaryaavarta. Note also that the context in which the > Manu-sm.rti mention occurs is not oriented toward giving a geography of the > entire subcontinent. Its principal concern is places suitable for a Brahmin > to live. > > The ViP is usually considered to be a relatively early Puraa.na as I > recall. > > ashok aklujkar > > > On 2010-12-24, at 11:12 PM, Christopher Wallis wrote: > > > My > > author uses Bhaarata to mean "all the land in which tiirthas are found" > so > > that is clearly not just north India. Does anyone else have any further > > evidence to date this usage? > > > > -- Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi Head, Dept of Darshanas, Yoganandacharya Bhavan, Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026. ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ????????? ??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ??????????????? ?????????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) From ersand at HUM.KU.DK Thu Jan 6 21:41:28 2011 From: ersand at HUM.KU.DK (Erik Reenberg Sand) Date: Thu, 06 Jan 11 22:41:28 +0100 Subject: Tenali Ramakrishna Message-ID: <161227091274.23782.9744452171017746044.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 340 Lines: 12 Dear list members, In connection with my work of editing the Sanskrit Panduranamahatmya I should like to know whether anybody knows of an English translation or a list of contents of Tenali Ramakrishnas Telugu Panduranga Mahatyamu? Regards Erik Reenberg Sand Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen From hellwig7 at GMX.DE Tue Jan 11 11:34:03 2011 From: hellwig7 at GMX.DE (Oliver Hellwig) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 11 11:34:03 +0000 Subject: New version of DCS Message-ID: <161227091277.23782.9582814346880727499.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 628 Lines: 22 Dear colleagues, a new version of the Digital Corpus of Sanskrit has been released. Apart from some new texts (refer to http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/index.php?contents=help_center), the corpus now offers a KWIC (key word in context) search function. This function can be used to examine Sanskrit phraseology or as a starting point for searching for citations. Please refer to http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/index.php?contents=help_kwic for further information. Best regards Oliver Hellwig --- PD Dr. Oliver Hellwig SAI, University of Heidelberg Im Neuenheimer Feld 330 69120 Heidelberg From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Wed Jan 12 11:01:04 2011 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 11 12:01:04 +0100 Subject: GRETIL update #383 Message-ID: <161227091279.23782.15698108215584714857.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 614 Lines: 24 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Nagnajit: Citralaksana (plain text version, text with pada markers, pada index) __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Jan 12 11:37:42 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 11 12:37:42 +0100 Subject: SARIT update Message-ID: <161227091281.23782.2088469944209525158.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 637 Lines: 18 SARIT is pleased to announce the addition of five chapters of the * ?yurvedas?tra* to the SARIT search and indexing respository. The text is TEI-encoded (i.e., XML) and will shortly also be downloadable in original XML as well as HTML and PDF from the SARIT downloads page. All SARIT e-texts are released under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License . Best, Dr Dominik Wujastyk SARIT project From rotaru.julieta at GMAIL.COM Wed Jan 12 13:10:02 2011 From: rotaru.julieta at GMAIL.COM (Julieta Rotaru) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 11 15:10:02 +0200 Subject: CEAS, Bucharest: 2nd Intesive Course on Codicology Message-ID: <161227091284.23782.8774019563844246455.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2272 Lines: 126 Dear Colleagues, I have the pleasure to announce that the Centre for Eurasiatic and Afroasiatic Studies (CEAS) ? Bucharest, will hold its second Intensive Course in Manuscriptology, 12-17 September 2011. Please find below the relevant information. Thanking you, Julieta Rotaru Associate Lecturer, University of Bucharest Faculty of Foreign Languages and Literature The Second Intensive Course on Manuscriptology: Title: History and development of North-Indian Scripts (old N?gar? and early Devan?gar?) Course Description: Among ancient scripts, many scholars expect N?gar? to be a relatively easy one because it is thought to be close to the well-known modern form of Devan?gar?. However, in several respects old N?gar? and even early Devan?gar? are closer to Br?hm?, early Gupta script and to the sister script Siddham?t?k? than to modern Devan?gar?. In order to master old N?gar? and early Devan?gar? it is therefore important to study them in their historical context. The course will contain the following sections. i. Introduction: the origin and development of scripts in ancient India (northern branch); ii. Learning, writing and reading the old N?gar? script; ii. Learning the style and varieties of a. old N?gar? (inscriptions to manuscripts); b. early Devan?gar? (manuscripts) with p???am?tr?; iii. Practice with the reading of manuscripts; iv. A certificate will be provided for active and successful participation. Date: 12-17 September 2011 Materials: to be provided Subscription: The course participants will be invited after approval of their brief CV and motivation letter which are to be submitted in advance to julieta.rotaru at bmms.ro / s.rath at iias.nl before 1st June 2011. The tuition fees are integrally covered by the CEAS. For participants from abroad rooms have been reserved (in a moderate price) in the Guest House of the University of Bucharest, just 10 minutes from the venue of the course. Requirement: basic knowledge in Sanskrit. Venue: Centre for Eurasiatic and Afroasiatic Studies Take Ionescu Street, no. 4, 010354 Bucharest ROMANIA Teacher: Dr. Saraju Rath International Institute for Asian Studies (IIAS) Leiden, The Netherlands email: s.rath at iias.nl From james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM Wed Jan 12 14:46:23 2011 From: james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM (James Hartzell) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 11 15:46:23 +0100 Subject: Digital Mah=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81vyutpatti=3F?= Message-ID: <161227091286.23782.2589297926043155537.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 126 Lines: 10 Dear Colleagues Does anyone know of a digital (Unicode) version of the Mah?vyutpatti? Cheers James Hartzell U. of Trento From kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Wed Jan 12 14:50:08 2011 From: kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Kellner, Birgit) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 11 15:50:08 +0100 Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] Digital Mah=?iso-8859-4?Q?=E0vyutpatti=3F?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091288.23782.10630257115204129633.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 480 Lines: 21 http://buddhistinformatics.ddbc.edu.tw/glossaries/glossaries.php Cheers, Birgit Kellner ________________________________________ Von: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] im Auftrag von James Hartzell [james.hartzell at gmail.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. Januar 2011 15:46 An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Betreff: [INDOLOGY] Digital Mah?vyutpatti? Dear Colleagues Does anyone know of a digital (Unicode) version of the Mah?vyutpatti? Cheers James Hartzell U. of Trento From annamisia at YAHOO.COM Thu Jan 13 10:20:46 2011 From: annamisia at YAHOO.COM (Anna A. Slaczka) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 11 02:20:46 -0800 Subject: R. Nagaswamy contact address Message-ID: <161227091294.23782.2109952146104903347.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 364 Lines: 23 Dear Friends and Colleagues, Could anybody provide me with an email or other contact address of Dr. R. Nagaswamy? Please send the answers to my personal email address. Thank you in advance! Anna Slaczka. Dr. Anna A. ?l?czka Conservator Zuid-Aziatische Kunst / Curator of South Asian Art Rijksmuseum Po Box 74888 1070 DN Amsterdam The Netherlands From r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG Wed Jan 12 19:52:23 2011 From: r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 11 08:52:23 +1300 Subject: Digital Mah=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81v?= yutpatti? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091291.23782.7444496453690692300.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2305 Lines: 75 Dear James, On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 03:46:23PM +0100, James Hartzell wrote: > Dear Colleagues > > Does anyone know of a digital (Unicode) version of the Mah?vyutpatti? > > Cheers > James Hartzell > U. of Trento A few options through Indica et Buddhica: For download: 1./ Tibetan-Sanskrit Buddhist Terminology based on the `Mahavyutpatti' & `Yogacarabhumi' (SAKAKI, Ry?zabur? / YOKOYAMA, K?itsu & HIROSAWA, Takayuki) http://indica-et-buddhica.org/sections/repositorium-preview/materials/dictionaries/tibetan-sanskrit-terms Can be used alone, or together, with the `Tibetan to English Translation / Dictionary Tool': v. http://www.gaugeus.com/tibetan-to-english-translation-tool 2./ Sanskrit-Tibetan Buddhist Terminology for use with the Dictionary Server Protocol (DICT) (Source as above) http://indica-et-buddhica.org/sections/repositorium-preview/materials/dictionaries/sanskrit-tibetan-dict For online search: 1./ Lexica: Query Interface for Sanskrit, Tibetan and English word lists and dictionary (Source as above) http://lexica.indica-et-buddhica.org/dict/lexica-legacy N.B.: Any DICT Client can retrieve definitions from the IeB DICT server. Please connect to: indica-et-buddhica.org:2629 2./ Philologica Indica et Buddhica Version of MVY. Hoshu Mitsuhara & Tooru Aiba, editor(s), Sanskrit-Tibetan Buddhist Terminology based on the Mah?vyutpatti, (http://texa.human.is.tohoku.ac.jp/aiba/archive/mvyut/open/: texa.human.is.tohoku.ac.jp, 2000), ASCII text file using Extended Wylie and Harvard-Kyoto transliteration for Tibetan and Sanskrit respectively; mvyut-2000.a1-wk; approx. 950 KB (Id. No. 0009-00000009). Source note :: Base edn: Ry?zabur? Sakaki, ed.. Base e-texts: Hoshu Mitsuhara & Tooru Aiba. Reformating and conversion to TEI markup: Richard Mahoney. LCSH Keywords :: Tibetan language, Dictionaries - Polyglot; Buddhism - Terminology, Early works to 1800. http://philologica.indica-et-buddhica.org/available.shtml Kind regards, Richard -- Richard MAHONEY - Indica et Buddhica Littledene, Bay Road, OXFORD 7430, NZ PO Box 25, OXFORD 7443 +64 3 312 1699 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org http://indica-et-buddhica.org http://camera-antipodea.indica-et-buddhica.com From james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM Thu Jan 13 11:32:35 2011 From: james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM (James Hartzell) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 11 12:32:35 +0100 Subject: Digital Mah=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81vyutpatti=3F?= In-Reply-To: <20110112195223.GB14726@proliant.indica-et-buddhica.org> Message-ID: <161227091296.23782.17793420034503488499.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2644 Lines: 88 Dear Richard, Andrey, Daniel, and Birgit Thanks for your quick and helpful replies. I'll make contact off list if I have any questions. Cheers James On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 8:52 PM, Richard MAHONEY wrote: > > Dear James, > > On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 03:46:23PM +0100, James Hartzell wrote: >> Dear Colleagues >> >> Does anyone know of a digital (Unicode) version of the Mah?vyutpatti? >> >> Cheers >> James Hartzell >> U. of Trento > > A few options through Indica et Buddhica: > > For download: > > 1./ Tibetan-Sanskrit Buddhist Terminology based on the `Mahavyutpatti' > ? ?& ?`Yogacarabhumi' (SAKAKI, Ry?zabur? / YOKOYAMA, K?itsu & HIROSAWA, Takayuki) > ? ?http://indica-et-buddhica.org/sections/repositorium-preview/materials/dictionaries/tibetan-sanskrit-terms > > ? ?Can be used alone, or together, with the `Tibetan to English > ? ?Translation / Dictionary Tool': v. > ? ?http://www.gaugeus.com/tibetan-to-english-translation-tool > > > 2./ Sanskrit-Tibetan Buddhist Terminology for use with the Dictionary > ? ?Server Protocol (DICT) (Source as above) > ? ?http://indica-et-buddhica.org/sections/repositorium-preview/materials/dictionaries/sanskrit-tibetan-dict > > > For online search: > > 1./ Lexica: Query Interface for Sanskrit, Tibetan and English word > ? ?lists and dictionary (Source as above) > ? ?http://lexica.indica-et-buddhica.org/dict/lexica-legacy > > ? ?N.B.: Any DICT Client can retrieve definitions from the IeB DICT > ? ?server. Please connect to: indica-et-buddhica.org:2629 > > > 2./ Philologica Indica et Buddhica Version of MVY. > > ? ?Hoshu Mitsuhara & Tooru Aiba, editor(s), Sanskrit-Tibetan Buddhist > ? ?Terminology based on the Mah?vyutpatti, > ? ?(http://texa.human.is.tohoku.ac.jp/aiba/archive/mvyut/open/: > ? ?texa.human.is.tohoku.ac.jp, 2000), ASCII text file using Extended > ? ?Wylie and Harvard-Kyoto transliteration for Tibetan and Sanskrit > ? ?respectively; mvyut-2000.a1-wk; approx. 950 KB > ? ?(Id. No. 0009-00000009). Source note :: Base edn: Ry?zabur? Sakaki, > ? ?ed.. Base e-texts: Hoshu Mitsuhara & Tooru Aiba. Reformating and > ? ?conversion to TEI markup: Richard Mahoney. LCSH Keywords :: Tibetan > ? ?language, Dictionaries - Polyglot; Buddhism - Terminology, Early works > ? ?to 1800. > > ? ?http://philologica.indica-et-buddhica.org/available.shtml > > > > Kind regards, > > ?Richard > > > > -- > Richard MAHONEY - Indica et Buddhica > > Littledene, Bay Road, OXFORD 7430, NZ > PO Box 25, OXFORD 7443 > +64 3 312 1699 > r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org > http://indica-et-buddhica.org > http://camera-antipodea.indica-et-buddhica.com > From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Thu Jan 13 15:28:01 2011 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 11 16:28:01 +0100 Subject: GRETIL update #384 Message-ID: <161227091303.23782.2055441720336541383.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 573 Lines: 22 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Satasahasrika Prajnaparamita, II.3 __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From mnstorm at MAC.COM Thu Jan 13 12:34:51 2011 From: mnstorm at MAC.COM (Mary Storm) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 11 18:04:51 +0530 Subject: Tamil Text Book? Message-ID: <161227091299.23782.3135153165940720098.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 348 Lines: 22 Dear Indologists, Could anyone recommend a good beginning Tamil text book ? Thanks so much! Mary Mary Storm, Ph.D. Academic Director and Lecturer India: National Identity and the Arts and Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture SIT Study Abroad http://www.sit.edu/studyabroad F 301 Lado Sarai New Delhi 110030 India Mobile: +91 98106 98003 From mnstorm at MAC.COM Thu Jan 13 13:21:38 2011 From: mnstorm at MAC.COM (Mary Storm) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 11 18:51:38 +0530 Subject: Tamil Text Book? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091301.23782.3470217021761306766.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1720 Lines: 61 Dear Prof Tieken, Thanks so much. Let me clarify; I am looking for an introductory modern spoken Tamil text for American undergraduates. A textbook that would cover an introduction to script, basic grammar, drills, etc. Something on a par with Usha Jain's Introduction to Hindi Grammar. Warm Thanks from Chilly Delhi, Mary Mary Storm, Ph.D. Academic Director and Lecturer India: National Identity and the Arts and Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture SIT Study Abroad http://www.sit.edu/studyabroad F 301 Lado Sarai New Delhi 110030 India Mobile: +91 98106 98003 On 13-Jan-2011, at 6:45 PM, Tieken, H.J.H. wrote: > Dear dr Storm, > What do you mean: a reader or a grammar? If a reader, I can recommend A Comtemporary Tamil Prose Reader (with notes, translation and glossary). Published by Mozhi (mozhitrust at yahoo.com). As to a grammar, I find Thomas Lehmann's grammar very useful: A Grammar of Modern Tamil. Pondichery Institute of Linguistics and Culture. As far as I know, however, it is out of print. > It is an altogether other story if it is Classical Tamil you have in mind. > With kind regards > Herman Tieken > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: Indology namens Mary Storm > Verzonden: do 1/13/2011 1:34 > Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Onderwerp: [INDOLOGY] Tamil Text Book? > > Dear Indologists, > > Could anyone recommend a good beginning Tamil text book ? > > Thanks so much! > > Mary > > > Mary Storm, Ph.D. > Academic Director and Lecturer > India: National Identity and the Arts > and > Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture > SIT Study Abroad > http://www.sit.edu/studyabroad > F 301 Lado Sarai > New Delhi 110030 India > Mobile: +91 98106 98003 > > From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Thu Jan 13 19:21:44 2011 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 11 20:21:44 +0100 Subject: Publication Announcement Message-ID: <161227091305.23782.16528226260842361374.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1867 Lines: 35 Dear Colleagues, I have the pleasure to announce the following publication: Bruno LoTurco, Mok?op?ya-??k? of Bh?skaraka??ha. The Fragments of the Nirv??aprakara?a. Part I. Critical Edition. (Studia Indologica Universitatis Halensis. 1.) Halle: Universitaetsverlag Halle-Wittenberg 2011. pp. 282. Hardbound. Price: 48,? EUR. Subscription Rate (valid January 2011): 42,? EUR. ISBN 978-3-86977-028-4 Brief description: This volume continues the publication of the fragments of the Mok?op??ya with the commentary of the Kashmiri Shaivite philosopher Bh?skaraka??ha critically edited by Walter Slaje (Mok?o?p??ya-???k? I?IV). It contains the critical edition of the first half of the large extant fragment of the Nir?v???a?pra?ka?ra?a ? the sixth section of the Mok?op?ya, the last and by far the most substantial ? with Bh?s?ka?ra?ka??ha?s commentary Nir?v???a???k?. The Mok?o?p??ya, a huge philosophico-soteriological work probably composed by a Kashmiri author in the tenth century of our era, was the original version of what would become the Yo?ga?v??si???ha, which enjoyed enormous popularity in India, in certain regions second only to the two great epic poems. Place your (subscription rate) orders directly with the Publisher: http://www.universitaetsverlag-halle-wittenberg.de/default/studia-indologica.html http://www.universitaetsverlag-halle-wittenberg.de/default/contacts/ Kindly regarding, Walter Slaje ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From jkirk at SPRO.NET Tue Jan 18 00:17:02 2011 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 11 17:17:02 -0700 Subject: FW: [n/a] Mapping Buddhist Monasteries 200-1200 CE Project Message-ID: <161227091308.23782.15999588976347283927.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 9427 Lines: 218 Dear List, This is one super contribution to visualising the ancient Buddhist monastic communities in Asia. Please view. Best wishes, Joanna Kirkpatrick _________________________ -----Original Message----- From: asia-www-monitor-bounces at anu.edu.au [mailto:asia-www-monitor-bounces at anu.edu.au] On Behalf Of Reviews of Internet resources for Asian Studies Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 5:01 PM The Asian Studies WWW Monitor: Jan 2011, Vol. 18, No. 1 (320) -------------------------------------------------------------- 18 Jan 2011 Mapping Buddhist Monasteries 200-1200 CE Project monastic-asia.wikidot.com, Ann Arbor: Center for South Asian Studies, University of Michigan, USA; Canberra: www.ciolek.com - Asia Pacific Research Online, Australia; & Newton, MA: Lasell College, USA. Self-description: "GORDON, Stewart, T. Matthew Ciolek & Lizabeth H. Piel, Work in progress, 2009-present, Mapping Buddhist Monasteries 200-1200 CE Project. [...] The Project aims to: * catalogue, * crosscheck, verify and interrelate the collected data, * georeference and, finally, * map online (using KML markup & Google Maps technology) details of communication, contacts and affinities between as many as possible of the Buddhist monasteries and convents known to have operated in South Asia, SE Asia, Central Asia, and East Asia from approx. 200 CE till approx. 1200 CE. [...] From its North Indian origins Buddhism expanded across much of Asia, including Southern India, Sri Lanka, Afghanistan, Central Asia and Tibet, Southeast Asia, China, Korea and Japan. In contrast to studies of 'Chinese' Buddhism or 'Vietnamese' Buddhism, this project focuses on the early medieaval monastic institutions across the entire Buddhist world. During the first 18 months of work conducted via the Internet from three different time-zones in the USA and Australia, we have constructed a freely accessible online database of easily correctable information on over 500 Asian monastic institutions. The data include their: (1) exact geographical coordinates; (2) official and variant names; (3) probable doctrinal affiliations; (4) architectural form; (5) probable organizational characteristics; (6) probable chronology and dating. Each monastery is linked directly to its position in GoogleEarth, allowing an overall or close up view of the site. Many sites have embedded photos of architectural features. In September 2010 we have now begun the second phase of the project: recording evidence of bilateral connections between monasteries, such as the longstanding links between Sri Lankan monasteries and Nalanda. What, however, were the overall Asian patterns? How did long-distance flows of students, teachers, relics, books, sculpture, paintings and donations influence intellectual, religious, artistic, even economic and political developments? What were the main types and styles of inter-monastic Buddhist communications [= exchanges of information, in oral and written formats], contacts [= flows of personnel] and affinities [= political, doctrinal, intellectual and artistic links and parallels]? Did they significantly vary with changes to their geographical, cultural, political, or temporal contexts? In other words, the project systematically documents, maps and explores the intimate contours of a closely interlinked and mutually influential Buddhist world. We invite interested scholars to critique our efforts so-far, to contribute new data or refinements, and to join our online team." Site contents: * Bibliography page [in mid-Jan 2011 it listed over 180 printed and/or electronic publications]; * Chronologies page (Arabian Peninsula, Burma, Byzantium, Cambodia, Central Asia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Persia, Afghanistan and Transoxiana, Vietnam [Annam, Nam Viet, Dai Viet], Vietnam [Champa]); * Map scales [from 1:22M to 1: 15K] & amp; measurements page; * Methodology page [under construction]; * Sanskrit fonts (cut & paste); * Monasteries A to Z [In mid-Jan 2011 the site recorded details of over 510 individual monasteries and monastic clusters. Data format: # Raw data, # Final data (and their sources): A. Lat/Long coordinates' accuracy [to the nearest 200m, 2km, 20km], B. General location of the monastery in question, C. Google Map link, 1. Monastery's name, 2. Monastery's modern country & province, 3. Monastery's alternative/historical names, 4. Monastery's lat/long coordinates [in decimal degrees], 5. Other known nearby Buddhist monasteries, 6. Modern name of the known nearest city, town, or village, 7. The settlement's alternative/historical names, 8. The settlement's coordinates [in decimal degrees], 9. Monastery's major Buddhist tradition, 10. Monastery's Buddhist sub-tradition, 11. Date-early, 12. Date-intermediate, 13. Date-late, 14. Details of contacts with other monasteries, 15. Type of evidence regarding the monastery, 16. Additional notes [missing data (incl. details of the size of the monastic population)], 17. Corrections & addenda to this page were kindly provided by ..., #Page tags.]; * Electronic Atlas [http://www.ciolek.com/GEO-MONASTIC/geo-monasteries-home.html, using GoogleEarth and the KML files] (Map A. Monasteries North-West (= areas between Lat 39.0 - 60.0 N and Long 55.0 - 99.9 E), Map B. Monasteries North-East (= areas between Lat 39.0 - 60.0 N and Long 100.0 - 150.0 E, incl. today's Korea & Japan), Map C. Monasteries Central-West (= areas between Lat 26.0 - 38.99 N and Long 55.0 - 99.9 E), Map D. Monasteries Central-East (= areas between Lat 26.0 - 38.99 N and Long 100.0 - 150.0 E), Map E. Monasteries South-West (= areas between 10.0 S - 25.99 N and Long 55.0 - 99.9 E), Map F. Monasteries South-East (= areas between 10.0 S - 25.99 N and Long 100.0 - 150.0 E)); * Unidentified Places [a list of highly problematic sites]; * How to edit pages?; * Recent changes; * Raw & temporary data; * Access pages by tags: (200m, 20km, 2km, a, afghanistan, apparatus, b, bangladesh, c, cave, central-asia, chan/zen, charted, china, cluster, d, e, east-asia, f, fahien, g, h, hoko, hosso, hua-yen, huichao, i, india, indonesia, j, japan, k, kashmir, kegon, korea, kyrgyzstan, l, lokottaravada, m, mahasanghika, mahayana, mahayana?, mapped, monastery, monastery?, mt., muro-ha, myanmar, myogen, n, nanzan, nepal, nunnery, o, p, pagoda, pakistan, q, r, redirect, ritsu, s, sammitiya, sanron, sarvastivada, shingon, shokannon, shotoku, south-asia, south-east-asia, spot, sri-lanka, stupa, sungyun, swat-valley, t, tajikistan, tantra, template, tendai, thailand, theravada, theravada?, tibet, tradition?, turkmenistan, u, uncharted, university, unmapped, uzbekistan, v, vajrayana, vajrayana?, vietnam, vinaya, w, western-china, x, xuanzang, y, yijing, z); * Recent posts & comments [under construction]; * 20 most recently created pages [incl.: # Sensoji monastery, (in) Tokyo, Tokyo Prefecture, JP; # Kitain monastery, (in) Kawagoe, Saitama Prefecture, JP; # Hwangnyongsa monastery, (in) Kyongju, Gyeongsanguk-do, KR; # Kizil monastery, (near) Kizil, Xinjiang, CN; # Qumtura monastery, (towards) Kuqa, Xinjiang, CN; # Singim monastery, (near) Singim, Xinjiang, CN; # Yulin monastery?, (near) Guazhou, Gansu, CN]; * Central Asia (Central Asia - all, Afghanistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Western China); * East Asia (East Asia - all, China, Japan, Korea); * South Asia (South Asia - all, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Bhutan [under construction], India, Kashmir, Nepal, Pakistan, Sikkim [under construction], Sri Lanka, Swat, Tibet); * South-East Asia (SEAsia - all, Cambodia [under construction], Indonesia, Laos [under construction], Myanmar, Thailand, Vietnam); * Aspects of data (Monastic clusters, Cave sites, Pagoda sites, Stupa sites, University sites); * Abstract; * Citation format; * Contact; * Search this site. URL http://monastic-asia.wikidot.com/ Internet Archive (web.archive.org) [the site is not archived by web.archive.org] Link reported by: T. Matthew Ciolek (tmciolek--at--coombs.anu.edu.au) * Resource type [news - documents - study - corporate info. - online guide]: Study * Publisher [academic - business - govt. - library/museum - NGO - other]: Academic * Scholarly usefulness [essential - v.useful - useful - interesting - marginal]: rating not available -------------------------------------------------------------- Src: The Asian Studies WWW Monitor ISSN 1329-9778 URL http://coombs.anu.edu.au/asia-www-monitor.html URL http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/asia-www-monitor The e-journal [est. 21 Apr 1994] provides free abstracts and reviews of new/updated online resources of interest to Asian Studies. The email edition of this Journal has now over 9,250 subscribers. The AS WWW Monitor does not necessarily endorse contents, or policies of the Internet resources it deals with. - regards - Dr T. Matthew Ciolek tmciolek--at--coombs.anu.edu.au Head, Internet Publications Bureau, RSPAS, ANU College of Asia and the Pacific, The Australian National University, Canberra, Australia ph +61 (02) 6125 3124 fax: +61 (02) 62571893 also, Asia Pacific Research Online at www.ciolek.com [You may freely forward this information, but on condition that you send the text as an integral whole along with complete information about its author, date, and source.] _______________________________________________ asia-www-monitor at anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/asia-www-monitor From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Tue Jan 18 15:26:07 2011 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 11 16:26:07 +0100 Subject: GRETIL update #385 Message-ID: <161227091310.23782.1428578958756402882.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 800 Lines: 28 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Dharmakirti: Nyayabinduprakarana Nagarjuna: Pancakrama Nagarjuna: Pindikrama [transmitted as krama 1 of Pancakrama] __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From westerhoff at CANTAB.NET Tue Jan 18 17:16:53 2011 From: westerhoff at CANTAB.NET (Jan Westerhoff) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 11 17:16:53 +0000 Subject: 2 PhD scholarships (fully funded) for research on Indian Philosophy Message-ID: <161227091313.23782.3301692964626790904.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1067 Lines: 28 The Department of Philosophy at the University of Durham invites applications for two PhD scholarships as part of the project Śāstravid: A New Paradigm for the Study of Indian Philosophy funded by the European Research Council, to be taken up from October 2011. The successful candidates will hold a graduate degree in Philosophy or Buddhist Studies and will work under the supervision of Dr Jan Westerhoff on philosophical problems posed by the Indian Madhyamaka texts to be encoded and analyzed during the project. Familiarity with some of the relevant Asian languages (Sanskrit, Tibetan, Japanese) is an advantage but no prerequisite. The positions are not restricted to EU nationals, suitable candidates of any nationality are invited to apply. For more information see http://www.janwesterhoff.net/erc.htm or email Jan Westerhoff at j.c.westerhoff at dur.ac.uk. *************************** Dr Dr JC Westerhoff Department of Philosophy University of Durham 50 Old Elvet Durham DH1 3HN United Kingdom www.janwesterhoff.net westerhoff at cantab.net From joseph.walser at TUFTS.EDU Wed Jan 19 16:48:52 2011 From: joseph.walser at TUFTS.EDU (Joseph Walser) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 11 11:48:52 -0500 Subject: Digitized Maitrayani Samhita? In-Reply-To: <4D36D666.5070406@asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de> Message-ID: <161227091317.23782.8533905902131508131.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 247 Lines: 18 Does anyone out there have access to a digitized (searchable) edition of the Maitrayani Samhita? Thanks, -j -- Joseph Walser Associate Professor Department of Religion Tufts University 314 Eaton Hall Medford, MA 02155 Office: 617 627-2322 From kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Wed Jan 19 12:17:42 2011 From: kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Birgit Kellner) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 11 13:17:42 +0100 Subject: Fwd: permission to ask question Message-ID: <161227091315.23782.10154217835040875730.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 976 Lines: 30 The question below has been put by a non-member, via the committee - kindly address responses directly to Michael Cohen (mc1 at AOL.COM). Birgit Kellner -------- Original Message -------- Subject: permission to ask question Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 20:51:20 +0100 From: Michael Cohen Reply-To: Indology Committee To: INDOLOGYCOMMITTEE at liverpool.ac.uk Dear SIrs, I have been a member in the past though my contributions were minor at best. Presently, I have a straight forward request for a citation "Iam trying to locate a footnote reference that cites three of Sankara's disciples independently holding saksi in the place of "Ultimate Experience". I'm misquoting but not grossly. Might anyone know and share where this came from.. THanks, MIchael Cohen MA, Religious Studies, Hinduism, Columbia Univ.198? adjunct Hunter College, Eastern Religions 1995 - 2005+/- From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Thu Jan 20 16:08:16 2011 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 11 17:08:16 +0100 Subject: GRETIL update #386 Message-ID: <161227091320.23782.12106394382082725293.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 772 Lines: 30 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Anityatasutra Nagarjuna: Salistambakamahayanasutratika Namaskaraikavimsatistotra __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From brendan.gillon at MCGILL.CA Fri Jan 21 22:26:13 2011 From: brendan.gillon at MCGILL.CA (Brendan Gillon) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 11 17:26:13 -0500 Subject: doctoral fellowship announcement Message-ID: <161227091323.23782.15639916447837650090.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1738 Lines: 39 McGill University's Indian Ocean World Centre invites applications for a doctoral fellowship for the study of the transmission of ideas either within the Indian Ocean World (i.e., any region(s) from Africa to the Middle East to South and Southeast Asia to China) or between the Indian Ocean World and other cultures, such as Arabic or Chinese. Among the possible subjects of investigation are: logic and debate, grammar, mathematic and astronomy. The successful candidate is expected to have a good reading knowledge of one or more of the relevant languages. Interested applicants should send Prof. Brendan Gillon (brendan.gillon at mcgill.ca) a two-page outline of a project proposal and a CV. The successful candidate's department of affiliation will depend on his or her project and background. Possible departments of affiliation are: the Department of Philosophy (www.mcgill.ca/philosophy/), the Institute for Islamic Studies (www.mcgill.ca/islamicstudies/) and the Department of History (www.mcgill.ca/history/). The successful applicant must meet the criteria for admission to the relevant department and complete its degree requirements, but will be working under the partial or complete supervision of Prof. Gillon. The deadline for application is February 28th, 2011 and the fellowship will start in the Fall of 2011. Contact: Brendan Gillon brendan.gillon at mcgill.ca -- Brendan S. Gillon email: brendan.gillon at mcgill.ca Department of Linguistics McGill University tel.: 001 514 398 4868 1085, Avenue Docteur-Penfield Montreal, Quebec fax.: 001 514 398 7088 H3A 1A7 CANADA webpage: http://webpages.mcgill.ca/staff/group3/bgillo/web/ From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sat Jan 22 13:30:34 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 11 14:30:34 +0100 Subject: 10 doctoral stipends advertised at the University of Vienna for Himilayan-related studies Message-ID: <161227091325.23782.11803328163013463275.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 895 Lines: 21 *?Kulturtransfer und interkulturelle Kontakte im Grenzgebiet des Himalaya?* (Cultural transfer and inter-cultural contact on the borderlands of the Himalayas) * *Ten funded doctoral positions are offered, from 1st March 2011, for three years. Successful applicants will be employees of the university and from the second year will have teaching opportunities. This is an enriched PhD program, with extra seminar and visiting-lecturer opportunities See the full announcements here: - http://numismatik.univie.ac.at/aktuelles/stipendien-und-freie-stellen/ - http://www.univie.ac.at/cirdis/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=75&Itemid=64(in English) - https://univis.univie.ac.at/ausschreibungstellensuche/flow/bew_ausschreibung-flow?_flowExecutionKey=_c350DBCF5-F0D9-865E-A939-113A0BDA7101_k065D692F-480D-34EF-5A69-05BEA5227066&tid=28071.28 for details. From athr at LOC.GOV Mon Jan 24 20:30:49 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 11 15:30:49 -0500 Subject: suppliers of India game boards? Message-ID: <161227091328.23782.14855691466119393210.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 536 Lines: 19 I have been asked by an employee of a game shop for information on traditional Indian board games, and I am supplying them with book titles and suggestions how to order them. Does anyone know of any firms manufacturing the boards and pieces? Thanks, Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Tue Jan 25 19:06:02 2011 From: rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Richard Salomon) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 11 11:06:02 -0800 Subject: Shakespeare in Sanskrit? Message-ID: <161227091337.23782.11665676793802938437.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 378 Lines: 16 I know of the following two translations of Shakespeare into Sanskrit: 1. A Midsummer Night's Dream: Krishnamachari,R. "Vasantikaswapnam: An Adaptation of Shakespeare's Midsummer-Night's Dream" (Madras, 1892). 2. Hamlet: Sukhamoy Mukhopadhyay, D?n?rkar?jakum?ra-Hemalekham (Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass, 1971). Does anyone know of other examples? Thanks Richard Salomon From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Jan 25 12:08:16 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 11 13:08:16 +0100 Subject: 10 doctoral stipends advertised at the University of Vienna for Himilayan-related studies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091331.23782.9181760972619724480.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1186 Lines: 29 NB, it is likely that the application deadline for these grants will be extended. On 22 January 2011 14:30, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > *?Kulturtransfer und interkulturelle Kontakte im Grenzgebiet des Himalaya? > * > (Cultural transfer and inter-cultural contact on the borderlands of the > Himalayas) > * > *Ten funded doctoral positions are offered, from 1st March 2011, for three > years. Successful applicants will be employees of the university and from > the second year will have teaching opportunities. This is an enriched PhD > program, with extra seminar and visiting-lecturer opportunities > See the full announcements here: > > - > http://numismatik.univie.ac.at/aktuelles/stipendien-und-freie-stellen/ > - > http://www.univie.ac.at/cirdis/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=75&Itemid=64(in English) > - > https://univis.univie.ac.at/ausschreibungstellensuche/flow/bew_ausschreibung-flow?_flowExecutionKey=_c350DBCF5-F0D9-865E-A939-113A0BDA7101_k065D692F-480D-34EF-5A69-05BEA5227066&tid=28071.28 > > for details. > From tmahadevan at HOWARD.EDU Tue Jan 25 20:03:12 2011 From: tmahadevan at HOWARD.EDU (Mahadevan, Thennilapuram) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 11 15:03:12 -0500 Subject: Shakespeare in Sanskrit? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091342.23782.9196068260394222704.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2480 Lines: 51 Into Malayalam? ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Peter Wyzlic [pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE] Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 2:35 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Shakespeare in Sanskrit? Am 25.01.2011 um 20:06 schrieb Richard Salomon: > I know of the following two translations of Shakespeare into Sanskrit: > > 1. A Midsummer Night's Dream: Krishnamachari,R. "Vasantikaswapnam: An Adaptation of Shakespeare's Midsummer-Night's Dream" (Madras, 1892). > > 2. Hamlet: Sukhamoy Mukhopadhyay, D?n?rkar?jakum?ra-Hemalekham (Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass, 1971). > > Does anyone know of other examples? There is a Sanskrit "adaptation" of Hamlet by S. D. Joshi and V. Deo: Candrasenah? Durgades?asya Yuvara?jah? : Sanskrit adaptation of Shakespeare's Hamlet, the prince of Denmark / by S.D. Joshi and Vighnahari Deo. - Pune : University of Poona, 1980. - (Publications of the Centre of Advanced Study in Sanskrit., Class G ; no. 1) Macbetht: Meghavedham : Maha?kaveh? S?eksapi?yaramahodayasya 'Maikabaith' iti na?t?akamadhikr?tya pran?i?tam / pran?eta?, Mohanaguptah?. - Dilli?, Bha?rata : Jn?a?nabha?rati? Pabl., 2009. - xvi, 110 p. The Merchant of Venice: Ven?i?s?a sa?rthava?ha = Merchant of Venice / by William Shakespeare [sic] ; anuva?daka Ananda Tripa?t?hi? S?arma?. - Gan?ja?maman?d?alam : S?armma?, 1969. - 3, 2, 115 p. - (S?iks?a?priya granthama?la?ya?[h?], pus?pam 3) As you like it (by the same translator): Yatha? te rocate = As you like it / by William Shakespeare ; anuva?daka Ananta Tripa?thi S?arma?. - Brahmapurama : S?iroman?i Mudra?s?a?la?, 1969. - 114 p. - (S?iks?a?priyagranthama?la?ya?, pus?pam 4) Romeo and Juliet U?thika? : Shakespeare Romeo-Julieta?s?rita? Sam?skr?itana?t?ika? / sana?tanasya S?ri?-Reva?prasa?da-Dvivedinah?. - Va?ra?n?asi? : Chaukhambha? Orientalia, 1978. - 74 p. - (Gokulada?sa Sam?skr?ta granthama?la?, 31) I remember that I have seen a Sanskrit version of Lamb's Shakespeare's tales somewhere. But that is not the original, of course. This collective volume contains some informations on Shakespeare in Indian translations: India's Shakespeare : translation, interpretation, and performance / ed. by Poonam Trivedi and Dennis Bartholomeusz. - Delhi, India : Pearson Longman, 2005. - 270 p. ISBN 8177581317 Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Tue Jan 25 17:46:09 2011 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 11 18:46:09 +0100 Subject: suppliers of India game boards? In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F152C653897@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227091334.23782.1471896759646832375.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1549 Lines: 50 The French web-site of "Geoludie" is manufacturing traditional Indian board games : http://www.geoludie.com/jeux-jeux-asiatiques-18.html It is to be noted that the text with translation of the caturangaa.s.taka (of which only 6 verses are preserved) of Melputtur Narayana Bhatta, on the rules of the (two players) caturanga, as traditionally practised by Kerala Nambudiri brahmins in Kerala, is furnished by C. Rajendran at the end of his recent booklet on M N B in the series "Makers of Indian Literature" (Sahitya Akademi, 2008; cf. his previous article "A note on the Catura;ngaa.s.taka of Melputtuur Naaraaya.na Bha.t.tathiri", Adyar Library Bulletin 64, 2000, pp. 81-87). With best wishes, Christophe Vielle >I have been asked by an employee of a game shop for information on >traditional Indian board games, and I am supplying them with book >titles and suggestions how to order them. Does anyone know of any >firms manufacturing the boards and pieces? > >Thanks, > >Allen > >Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. >Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator >South Asia Team >Asian Division >Library of Congress >Washington, DC 20540-4810 >USA >tel. 202-707-3732 >fax 202-707-1724 >The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the >Library of Congress. -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ http://www.uclouvain.be/356389.html -- Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of storage free. http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Jan 26 00:28:01 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 11 19:28:01 -0500 Subject: suppliers of India game boards? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091344.23782.7774522569064534511.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 263 Lines: 12 Many thanks to Christopher Vielle and Johannes Schneider for their suggestions. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Asian Division, Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Tue Jan 25 19:35:23 2011 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 11 20:35:23 +0100 Subject: Shakespeare in Sanskrit? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091339.23782.6137326540338263376.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2207 Lines: 43 Am 25.01.2011 um 20:06 schrieb Richard Salomon: > I know of the following two translations of Shakespeare into Sanskrit: > > 1. A Midsummer Night's Dream: Krishnamachari,R. "Vasantikaswapnam: An Adaptation of Shakespeare's Midsummer-Night's Dream" (Madras, 1892). > > 2. Hamlet: Sukhamoy Mukhopadhyay, D?n?rkar?jakum?ra-Hemalekham (Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass, 1971). > > Does anyone know of other examples? There is a Sanskrit "adaptation" of Hamlet by S. D. Joshi and V. Deo: Candrasenah? Durgades?asya Yuvara?jah? : Sanskrit adaptation of Shakespeare's Hamlet, the prince of Denmark / by S.D. Joshi and Vighnahari Deo. - Pune : University of Poona, 1980. - (Publications of the Centre of Advanced Study in Sanskrit., Class G ; no. 1) Macbetht: Meghavedham : Maha?kaveh? S?eksapi?yaramahodayasya 'Maikabaith' iti na?t?akamadhikr?tya pran?i?tam / pran?eta?, Mohanaguptah?. - Dilli?, Bha?rata : Jn?a?nabha?rati? Pabl., 2009. - xvi, 110 p. The Merchant of Venice: Ven?i?s?a sa?rthava?ha = Merchant of Venice / by William Shakespeare [sic] ; anuva?daka Ananda Tripa?t?hi? S?arma?. - Gan?ja?maman?d?alam : S?armma?, 1969. - 3, 2, 115 p. - (S?iks?a?priya granthama?la?ya?[h?], pus?pam 3) As you like it (by the same translator): Yatha? te rocate = As you like it / by William Shakespeare ; anuva?daka Ananta Tripa?thi S?arma?. - Brahmapurama : S?iroman?i Mudra?s?a?la?, 1969. - 114 p. - (S?iks?a?priyagranthama?la?ya?, pus?pam 4) Romeo and Juliet U?thika? : Shakespeare Romeo-Julieta?s?rita? Sam?skr?itana?t?ika? / sana?tanasya S?ri?-Reva?prasa?da-Dvivedinah?. - Va?ra?n?asi? : Chaukhambha? Orientalia, 1978. - 74 p. - (Gokulada?sa Sam?skr?ta granthama?la?, 31) I remember that I have seen a Sanskrit version of Lamb's Shakespeare's tales somewhere. But that is not the original, of course. This collective volume contains some informations on Shakespeare in Indian translations: India's Shakespeare : translation, interpretation, and performance / ed. by Poonam Trivedi and Dennis Bartholomeusz. - Delhi, India : Pearson Longman, 2005. - 270 p. ISBN 8177581317 Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Wed Jan 26 05:48:00 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 11 11:18:00 +0530 Subject: Shakespeare in Sanskrit? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091347.23782.11300670132144652559.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3400 Lines: 69 Dear Colleagues, The follwoing does not inform about Sanskrit translation but may be of interest. The earliest translation of Shakespeare into an Indian language is perhaps the Bengali translation Bhr?nti-vil?s (Comedy of Errors) by Ishwar Chandra Vidyasagar (1820-1891) published around 1860 at Calcutta. Vidyasagar?s contemporaries like like Michael Madhusudan Dutta imitated Shakespeare and Ramnarayan Tarkaratna followed the Sanskrit dramaturgy in dramas written by himself. Before them Gerasim Lebedev (1749-1817) translated some European/English farces into Bengali. I miss the exact details. I wonder if he had?translated Shakespeare. Best DB ? --- On Tue, 25/1/11, Mahadevan, Thennilapuram wrote: From: Mahadevan, Thennilapuram Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Shakespeare in Sanskrit? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 25 January, 2011, 8:03 PM Into Malayalam? ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Peter Wyzlic [pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE] Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 2:35 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Shakespeare in Sanskrit? Am 25.01.2011 um 20:06 schrieb Richard Salomon: > I know of the following two translations of Shakespeare into Sanskrit: > > 1. A Midsummer Night's Dream: Krishnamachari,R. "Vasantikaswapnam: An Adaptation of Shakespeare's Midsummer-Night's Dream" (Madras, 1892). > > 2. Hamlet: Sukhamoy Mukhopadhyay, D?n?rkar?jakum?ra-Hemalekham (Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass, 1971). > > Does anyone know of other examples? There is a Sanskrit "adaptation" of Hamlet by S. D. Joshi and V. Deo: Candrasenah? Durgades?asya Yuvara?jah? : Sanskrit adaptation of Shakespeare's Hamlet, the prince of Denmark / by S.D. Joshi and Vighnahari Deo. - Pune : University of Poona, 1980. - (Publications of the Centre of Advanced Study in Sanskrit., Class G ; no. 1) Macbetht: Meghavedham : Maha?kaveh? S?eksapi?yaramahodayasya 'Maikabaith' iti na?t?akamadhikr?tya pran?i?tam / pran?eta?, Mohanaguptah?. - Dilli?, Bha?rata : Jn?a?nabha?rati? Pabl., 2009. - xvi, 110 p. The Merchant of Venice: Ven?i?s?a sa?rthava?ha = Merchant of Venice / by William Shakespeare [sic] ; anuva?daka Ananda Tripa?t?hi? S?arma?. - Gan?ja?maman?d?alam : S?armma?, 1969. - 3, 2, 115 p. - (S?iks?a?priya granthama?la?ya?[h?], pus?pam 3) As you like it (by the same translator): Yatha? te rocate = As you like it / by William Shakespeare ; anuva?daka Ananta Tripa?thi S?arma?. - Brahmapurama : S?iroman?i Mudra?s?a?la?, 1969. - 114 p. - (S?iks?a?priyagranthama?la?ya?, pus?pam 4) Romeo and Juliet U?thika? : Shakespeare Romeo-Julieta?s?rita? Sam?skr?itana?t?ika? / sana?tanasya S?ri?-Reva?prasa?da-Dvivedinah?. - Va?ra?n?asi? : Chaukhambha? Orientalia, 1978. - 74 p. - (Gokulada?sa Sam?skr?ta granthama?la?, 31) I remember that I have seen a Sanskrit version of Lamb's Shakespeare's tales somewhere. But that is not the original, of course. This collective volume contains some informations on Shakespeare in Indian translations: India's Shakespeare : translation, interpretation, and performance / ed. by Poonam Trivedi and Dennis Bartholomeusz. - Delhi, India : Pearson Longman, 2005. - 270 p. ISBN 8177581317 Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn From tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU Wed Jan 26 17:32:27 2011 From: tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU (Gary Tubb) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 11 11:32:27 -0600 Subject: Brajbhasha and Early Hindi Retreat in Transylvania Message-ID: <161227091350.23782.5150505195510219188.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2583 Lines: 35 I am forwarding the following to the list by request: Dear Colleagues, Brajbhasha and Early Hindi Retreat in Transylvania, 2011 The Alexander Csoma de K?r?s Centre for Oriental Studies and the Department of Humanities at the Faculty of Economic and Human Sciences at Sapientia ? Hungarian University of Transylvania, Miercurea Ciuc/Cs?kszereda is organising a Brajbhasha and Early Hindi Retreat between Monday 15 Aug and Saturday, 27 Aug. 2011. The aim of the retreat is to bring together scholars and advanced students of Brajbhasha in a relatively informal way and to discuss or simply to enjoy reading together texts on which a specialist is working. In this way not only the audience would benefit from the leader's expertise but important feedback will also be provided for the leaders of the session from a qualified audience. The format will be similar to the Intensive Sanskrit Retreats (http://ind.elte.hu/node/41) including reading texts out in the nature, if weather permits. The retreat will be organised around three ninety-minute reading sessions each day conducted by outstanding specialists. One text will be read through six or twelve panels. Participants are normally academics and graduate students; however, undergraduates with a firm commitment are also encouraged to attend. A minimum requirement is familiarity with Rupert Snell?s The Hindi Classical Tradition: A Brajbhasha Reader or a similar level of competence in Brajbhasha. Sessions will be lead by Allison Busch, Monika Horstmann, Swapna Sharma and others tba. Francesca Orsini, Danuta Stasik and Ramdev Shukla will also help us with their expertise. Readings will include: ? Bhasha versions of the Bhagavata ekadasa skandha (We will read versions conditioned by performance traditions and thus in many ways different from the basic text. This leads on to particular translation techniques transmitted by scholars of the period.) ? Highlights of riti poetry with special reference to the historical side. other possible readigs ? Bhakti poetry from Vrindaban ? Late Brajbhasha court poetry from Bundelkhand: the ?Ritimukt? Thakur Updated information will be available at http://www.sapientia.siculorum.ro/sapientia/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=143&Itemid=1 Accommodation with full board will cost about 400 Euros per person. If you intend to apply or if you have any query regarding the conference please write to Mr B?la B?cs (bbacsb at netscape.net). Questions and regarding the academic content should be addressed to Dr Imre Bangha (imre.bangha at orinst.ox.ac.uk). From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Jan 26 21:13:58 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 11 16:13:58 -0500 Subject: Shakespeare in Sanskrit? In-Reply-To: <38834.56176.qm@web94813.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227091352.23782.11620622699726330407.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1590 Lines: 43 I stumbled across one example of Lebedev's translation work about a year ago and asked the catalogers to improve the record. Here is what we have of his. I have not investigated in WorldCat or elsewhere whether he did any further translations of dramas. Allen LC Control No.: 75904608 Personal Name: Jodrell, Richard Paul, 1745-1831. Uniform Title: Disguise. Bengali Main Title: Ka?lpanika sam?badala : Em. Jod?arela biracita "Di d?isga?ija" na?t?akera Ji. Es. Lebed?epha kr?ta ban?ga?nuba?da / S?ri?madanamohana Gosva?mi? sampa?dita. Published/Created: Kalika?ta? : Ya?dabapura Bis?vabidya?lay?a, 1963. Related Names: Lebedev, Gerasim Stepanovich, 1749-1817. Gosva?mi?, Madanamohana. Jod?arela, Em. Related Titles: Disguise. Description: 7, 143 p. : ill. ; 22 cm. Notes: Added t.p. in English: The Disguise: a comedy. Reproduced from a microfilm copy of a ms. preserved in the Central Dept. of Archives of the U.S.S.R., Moscow. In Bengali and English. LC Classification: PR3519.J6 D513 1963 Other System No.: (OCoLC)19363126 CALL NUMBER: PR3519.J6 D513 1963 Copy 1 Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From andra.kleb at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Thu Jan 27 18:22:16 2011 From: andra.kleb at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (Andrey Klebanov) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 11 19:22:16 +0100 Subject: religious embryology in India Message-ID: <161227091355.23782.8125066976035192862.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 330 Lines: 10 Dear all, I'm searching for publications (or any other academic input), which deal or touch upon the topic of religious attitudes, rituals etc. concerning conception/ embryonal development/ birth and early childhood in India (past or present). I would be absolutely grateful for any hint or advice. best, Andrey Klebanov From james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM Thu Jan 27 21:50:43 2011 From: james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM (James Hartzell) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 11 22:50:43 +0100 Subject: religious embryology in India In-Reply-To: <71D07E9E-F4AD-4F33-B98E-5E05B30042E1@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <161227091357.23782.18014087344109916953.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 832 Lines: 23 There's some very interesting material on this topic in both the Tibetan and Ayurvedic medical literature. I don't have my textbooks at hand, so I can't provide references. Some years back, when we were PhD students together, Amy Langenberg (Brown University) was interested in this topic, so she may be able to help. I will also be interested in any electronic references the list members might provide. Cheers James Hartzell On Jan 27, 2011, at 7:22 PM, Andrey Klebanov wrote: > Dear all, > > I'm searching for publications (or any other academic input), which deal or touch upon the topic of religious attitudes, rituals etc. concerning conception/ embryonal development/ birth and early childhood in India (past or present). > I would be absolutely grateful for any hint or advice. > > best, > Andrey Klebanov From mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU Thu Jan 27 22:19:02 2011 From: mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU (Michael Slouber) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 11 23:19:02 +0100 Subject: religious embryology in India In-Reply-To: <71D07E9E-F4AD-4F33-B98E-5E05B30042E1@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <161227091360.23782.3404666193834380792.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2928 Lines: 55 Dear Andrey, I don't have any kind of complete bibliography, but here are a few ideas: On Fertility: -Allocco, A. (2009). Snakes, goddesses, and anthills: Modern challenges and women's ritual responses in contemporary south india. Thesis, Emory University. -Balzani, M. (2004). Pregnancy rituals amongst the rajput elite in contemporary rajasthan. Playing for Real: Hindu Role Models, Religion, and Gender, 141. -Parpola, A. (1987). Bangles, sacred trees, and fertility: Interpretations of the indus script relating to the cult of skanda-kum?ra. In South asian archaeology 1987: Proceedings of the ninth international conference of the association of south asian archaeologists in western europe. -Patton Laurie, L. (2002). Mantras and miscarriage: Controlling birth in the late vedic period. Jewels of Authority: Women and Textual Tradition in Hindu India, 51-56. Little of the vast medieval literature on this topic has been edited. Look in the NGMCP catalogue for the word "s?tik?" for instance. Prenatal and Childhood demonic possession: Filliozat, J. (n.d.). Etude de d?monologie indienne: Le kumaratantra de ravan. A et les textes paralleles indiens tib?tains, chinois, cambodgien et arabe. Cahiers De La Soci?t? Asiatique, Series, 1. Granoff (2002). Paradigms of protection in ancient india or an essay on what to do with your demons. Essays in Jaina Philosophy and Religion, 2, 181-212. Granoff (2009). The art of protecting children: The ritual context for some early terracottas. Sarma, E. M. K. (1975). Kum?ratantram. South Indian Archaka Association. Smith, F. M. (2006). The Self Possessed: Deity and spirit possession in south asian literature and civilization. New York: Columbia University Press. Wujastyk, D. (1999). Miscarriages of justice: Demonic vengeance in classical indian medicine. Religion, Health, and Suffering, 256-75. Ditto concerning the lack of work on primary sources for this topic. There are dozens of manuscripts on it in every archive in South Asia. The Kriy?k?lagu?ottara has the following chapters that may be of interest: -abhi?ekapa?ala 19 (on possession causing fertility problems and remedies) -s?tikopadrava 20 -j?tam?trab?lacikits? 21 -b?l?n?? cikits? 22 -b?lagrahacikits? 23 -rak??pa?ala 24 (protection charms for children and others) There is a lot of Ayurvedic material on this--the K??yapasa?hit? comes to mind--but you don't get as much of the religious perspective there as the sources I mentioned above. Good luck, Michael Slouber Ph.D. Candidate UC Berkeley On Jan 27, 2011, at 7:22 PM, Andrey Klebanov wrote: > Dear all, > > I'm searching for publications (or any other academic input), which deal or touch upon the topic of religious attitudes, rituals etc. concerning conception/ embryonal development/ birth and early childhood in India (past or present). > I would be absolutely grateful for any hint or advice. > > best, > Andrey Klebanov From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Fri Jan 28 00:36:02 2011 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 11 00:36:02 +0000 Subject: religious embryology in India In-Reply-To: <79C52EC0-0AEE-4352-B9FC-69F3ACADEF2E@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227091362.23782.16100870190823950026.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3735 Lines: 68 A few years ago, Sandra Smets, then of the Catholic Univ. of Louvain-la-Neuve, was working on the embryological Garbhopani.sad. I am not sure?she is still working at that Univ. and whether her research has led to a publication yet. Christophe Vielle will no doubt be able to inform us. An excellent article is Walter Slaje's ".Rtu-, .Rtv(i)ya-, Aartava- Weibliche "Fertilit?t" im Denken vedischer Inder", published in Journal of the European Aayurvedic Society 4 (1995), 109-148. Arlo GriffithsEFEO/Jakarta ---------------------------------------- > Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 23:19:02 +0100 > From: mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] religious embryology in India > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Dear Andrey, > > I don't have any kind of complete bibliography, but here are a few ideas: > > On Fertility: > > -Allocco, A. (2009). Snakes, goddesses, and anthills: Modern challenges and women's ritual responses in contemporary south india. Thesis, Emory University. > -Balzani, M. (2004). Pregnancy rituals amongst the rajput elite in contemporary rajasthan. Playing for Real: Hindu Role Models, Religion, and Gender, 141. > -Parpola, A. (1987). Bangles, sacred trees, and fertility: Interpretations of the indus script relating to the cult of skanda-kum?ra. In South asian archaeology 1987: Proceedings of the ninth international conference of the association of south asian archaeologists in western europe. > -Patton Laurie, L. (2002). Mantras and miscarriage: Controlling birth in the late vedic period. Jewels of Authority: Women and Textual Tradition in Hindu India, 51-56. > > Little of the vast medieval literature on this topic has been edited. Look in the NGMCP catalogue for the word "s?tik?" for instance. > > Prenatal and Childhood demonic possession: > > Filliozat, J. (n.d.). Etude de d?monologie indienne: Le kumaratantra de ravan. A et les textes paralleles indiens tib?tains, chinois, cambodgien et arabe. Cahiers De La Soci?t? Asiatique, Series, 1. > Granoff (2002). Paradigms of protection in ancient india or an essay on what to do with your demons. Essays in Jaina Philosophy and Religion, 2, 181-212. > Granoff (2009). The art of protecting children: The ritual context for some early terracottas. > Sarma, E. M. K. (1975). Kum?ratantram. South Indian Archaka Association. > Smith, F. M. (2006). The Self Possessed: Deity and spirit possession in south asian literature and civilization. New York: Columbia University Press. > Wujastyk, D. (1999). Miscarriages of justice: Demonic vengeance in classical indian medicine. Religion, Health, and Suffering, 256-75. > > Ditto concerning the lack of work on primary sources for this topic. There are dozens of manuscripts on it in every archive in South Asia. > > The Kriy?k?lagu?ottara has the following chapters that may be of interest: > > -abhi?ekapa?ala 19 (on possession causing fertility problems and remedies) > -s?tikopadrava 20 > -j?tam?trab?lacikits? 21 > -b?l?n?? cikits? 22 > -b?lagrahacikits? 23 > -rak??pa?ala 24 (protection charms for children and others) > > There is a lot of Ayurvedic material on this--the K??yapasa?hit? comes to mind--but you don't get as much of the religious perspective there as the sources I mentioned above. > > Good luck, > > Michael Slouber > Ph.D. Candidate > UC Berkeley > > > > On Jan 27, 2011, at 7:22 PM, Andrey Klebanov wrote: > > > Dear all, > > > > I'm searching for publications (or any other academic input), which deal or touch upon the topic of religious attitudes, rituals etc. concerning conception/ embryonal development/ birth and early childhood in India (past or present). > > I would be absolutely grateful for any hint or advice. > > > > best, > > Andrey Klebanov From w.t.douglas at ABDN.AC.UK Fri Jan 28 05:59:35 2011 From: w.t.douglas at ABDN.AC.UK (Dr. Will Tuladhar-Douglas) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 11 05:59:35 +0000 Subject: religious embryology in India In-Reply-To: <71D07E9E-F4AD-4F33-B98E-5E05B30042E1@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <161227091365.23782.9360916871997134484.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 721 Lines: 23 Here's one from Frances Garret at University of Toronto. 2008. Religion, Medicine and the Human Embryo in Tibet. Abingdon, Oxon; New York: Routledge. Critical Studies in Buddhism series. -WBTD. On 27 Jan 2011, at 18:22, Andrey Klebanov wrote: > Dear all, > > I'm searching for publications (or any other academic input), which deal or touch upon the topic of religious attitudes, rituals etc. concerning conception/ embryonal development/ birth and early childhood in India (past or present). > I would be absolutely grateful for any hint or advice. > > best, > Andrey Klebanov - - -- --- ----- -------- ------------- Will Tuladhar-Douglas Anthropology of Environments and Religions http://tending.to/garden From acerulli at AYA.YALE.EDU Fri Jan 28 11:42:28 2011 From: acerulli at AYA.YALE.EDU (A.Cerulli) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 11 06:42:28 -0500 Subject: religious embryology in India In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091371.23782.3363750103404276161.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2747 Lines: 91 Dear Andrey, Here are some more: Bhattacharyya, Swasti. 2006. *Magical Progeny, Modern Technology: A Hindu Bioethics of** **Assisted Reproductive Technology*. State University of New York Press. Das, Rahul Peter. 2003. *The Origin of the Life of a Human Being: Conception and the Female According to Ancient** Indian Medical and Sexological Literature*. Motilal Banarsidass. Hara, Minoru. 1980. "A Note on the Buddha?s Birth Story." In *Indianisme et Bouddhisme: M?langes offerts ? Mgr* * ?tienne Lamotte*. Universit? Catholique de Louvain. H?sken, Ute.2009. *Vi??u?s Children: Prenatal life-cycle rituals in South India*. Harrassowitz Verlag. Kapani, Lakshmi. 1989a. "Note on the Garbha-Upani?ad." In *Fragments for a History of the Human Body*. Michel Feher, et al (eds). Zone 5, Part III. Zone Books. Kapani, Lakshmi, trans. 1989b. Upani?ad of the Embryo. In *Fragments for a History of the **Human Body*. Michel Feher, et al (eds). Zone 5, Part III. Zone Books. Sasson, Vanessa R. and June Marie Law (eds). 2008. *Imagining the Fetus: The Unborn in Myth, Religion, and Culture*. Oxford Univ. Press. Selby, Martha Ann. 2005. "Narratives of Conception, Gestation, and Labour in Sanskrit ?yurvedic Texts." *Asian Medicine: Tradition and Modernity*, vol. 1, no. 2: 254-275. Tewari, Premvati. 2003. *?yurved?ya Pras?titantra Eva? Str?toga*. 2 vols. 3rd Edition. Chaukhambha Orientalia. Tewari, Premvati V. 1997. *Introduction to K??yapa-Sa?hit?*. Chaukhambha Visvabharati. Yamashita, Tsutomu. 1995. "??r?rasth?na of the ?yurveda ? A Comparative Study." *Studies in the History of Indian** Thought*, vol. 7: 105-113. Best, Anthony Cerulli Hobart and William Smith Colleges On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 4:32 AM, Jonathan Silk wrote: > At the risk of being both slightly off topic and shamelessly > self-promoting, > one might also glance at my own ?Maternity Homes and Abandoned Children in > Buddhist India.? *Journal of the American Oriental Society* 127/3: 297-314. > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > I'm searching for publications (or any other academic input), which > deal > > or touch upon the topic of religious attitudes, rituals etc. concerning > > conception/ embryonal development/ birth and early childhood in India > (past > > or present). > > > I would be absolutely grateful for any hint or advice. > > > > > > best, > > > Andrey Klebanov > > > > - - -- --- ----- -------- ------------- > > Will Tuladhar-Douglas > > Anthropology of Environments and Religions > > http://tending.to/garden > > > > > > > -- > J. Silk > Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden > Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS > Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 > Doelensteeg 16 > 2311 VL Leiden > The Netherlands > From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Fri Jan 28 09:32:05 2011 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 11 10:32:05 +0100 Subject: religious embryology in India In-Reply-To: <81A301E1-D0E6-499E-93DD-970FBC70FC43@abdn.ac.uk> Message-ID: <161227091368.23782.13863218129533188691.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 914 Lines: 36 At the risk of being both slightly off topic and shamelessly self-promoting, one might also glance at my own ?Maternity Homes and Abandoned Children in Buddhist India.? *Journal of the American Oriental Society* 127/3: 297-314. > Dear all, > > > > I'm searching for publications (or any other academic input), which deal > or touch upon the topic of religious attitudes, rituals etc. concerning > conception/ embryonal development/ birth and early childhood in India (past > or present). > > I would be absolutely grateful for any hint or advice. > > > > best, > > Andrey Klebanov > > - - -- --- ----- -------- ------------- > Will Tuladhar-Douglas > Anthropology of Environments and Religions > http://tending.to/garden > -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands From vanessa.sasson at MCGILL.CA Fri Jan 28 16:57:11 2011 From: vanessa.sasson at MCGILL.CA (Vanessa Sasson, Dr.) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 11 11:57:11 -0500 Subject: religious embryology in India In-Reply-To: <20110127214030.35515F0C11E@asmx2.McGill.CA> Message-ID: <161227091378.23782.9763467015599492937.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1005 Lines: 21 to add to the wonderfully growing list of sources being suggested for this query, i might add that i am in the process of completing an edited volume on the theme of children/childhood and buddhism. it will be published by oxford, probably in the fall of 2012. there are about 20 contributions touching on various themes. i can forward more information to you if you are interested. best, vanessa r. sasson ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Andrey Klebanov [andra.kleb at GOOGLEMAIL.COM] Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 1:22 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] religious embryology in India Dear all, I'm searching for publications (or any other academic input), which deal or touch upon the topic of religious attitudes, rituals etc. concerning conception/ embryonal development/ birth and early childhood in India (past or present). I would be absolutely grateful for any hint or advice. best, Andrey Klebanov From alangenberg at MSN.COM Fri Jan 28 19:04:58 2011 From: alangenberg at MSN.COM (Amy Langenberg) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 11 14:04:58 -0500 Subject: religious embryology in India In-Reply-To: <71D07E9E-F4AD-4F33-B98E-5E05B30042E1@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <161227091381.23782.12781696358417566531.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1977 Lines: 57 Dear Andrey, Here are some more possible sources: Bizot, Francois. ?'La grotte de la naissance', Recherches sur le bouddhisme khmer II.? BEFEO 57 (1980): 222-73. Kritzer, Robert. ?Childbirth and the Mother's Body in the Abhidharmako?abh??ya and Related Texts.? Indo tetsugaku bukky? shis? ron sh?: Mikogami Esh?ky?ju sh?ju kinen ronsh? (2004): 1085-1109. ???. ?Life in the Womb: Conception and Gestation in Buddhist Scripture and Classical Indian Medical Literature.? In Imagining the Fetus : the Unborn in Myth, Religion, and Culture, edited by Vanessa Sasson and Jane Marie Law, 73-90. New York: Oxford Unversity Press, 2009. ???. ?The Four Ways of Entering the Womb (garbh?vakr?nti).? Bukky? Bunka 10 (2000): 1-41. Langenberg, Amy Paris. ?Like Worms Falling From a Foul-Smelling Sore: The Buddhist Rhetoric of Childbirth in an Early Mah?y?na S?tra.? New York: Columbia University, 2008. Smith, Frederick. ?Narrativity and Empiricism in Classical Indian Accounts of Birth and Death: The Mah??bh??rata and the Samhit?as of Caraka and S??ruta.? Asian Medicine 3, no. 1 (June 1, 2007): 85-102. Also, the "Garbh?vakr?ntyavad?na" in:K?emendra. Bodhi Sattv?vad?na Kalpalat? : A Buddhist Sanskrit work on the Exploits and glories of Buddha, with its Tibetan version. Edited by Sarat Chandra Das and Pandit Hari Mohan Vidyabhushana. Calcutta, 1888. all best wishes, Amy Paris LangenbergDepartment of Philosophy and ReligionAuburn University > Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:22:16 +0100 > From: andra.kleb at GOOGLEMAIL.COM > Subject: [INDOLOGY] religious embryology in India > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Dear all, > > I'm searching for publications (or any other academic input), which deal or touch upon the topic of religious attitudes, rituals etc. concerning conception/ embryonal development/ birth and early childhood in India (past or present). > I would be absolutely grateful for any hint or advice. > > best, > Andrey Klebanov From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Fri Jan 28 15:42:12 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 11 21:12:12 +0530 Subject: religious embryology in India In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091373.23782.6340950332586857234.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3393 Lines: 116 I do not know if this will be of help or even if anyone has already reported this. Mrs. Janet Chawla, has an organization M?trik? (this name itself may lead to the webpage) that tries to disseminate knowledge among women about themselves. She collected some material from, among others, secondary studies on ancient Indian literature. ?Much of that concern childbirth and related features. Best DB --- On Fri, 28/1/11, A.Cerulli wrote: From: A.Cerulli Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] religious embryology in India To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Friday, 28 January, 2011, 11:42 AM Dear Andrey, Here are some more: Bhattacharyya, Swasti. 2006. *Magical Progeny, Modern Technology: A Hindu Bioethics of** **Assisted Reproductive Technology*. State University of New York Press. Das, Rahul Peter. 2003. *The Origin of the Life of a Human Being: Conception and the Female According to Ancient** Indian Medical and Sexological Literature*. Motilal Banarsidass. Hara, Minoru. 1980. "A Note on the Buddha?s Birth Story." In *Indianisme et Bouddhisme: M?langes offerts ? Mgr* * ?tienne Lamotte*. Universit? Catholique de Louvain. H?sken, Ute.2009. *Vi??u?s Children: Prenatal life-cycle rituals in South India*. Harrassowitz Verlag. Kapani, Lakshmi. 1989a. "Note on the Garbha-Upani?ad." In *Fragments for a History of the Human Body*. Michel Feher, et al (eds). Zone 5, Part III. Zone Books. Kapani, Lakshmi, trans. 1989b. Upani?ad of the Embryo. In *Fragments for a History of the **Human Body*. Michel Feher, et al (eds). Zone 5, Part III. Zone Books. Sasson, Vanessa R. and June Marie Law (eds). 2008. *Imagining the Fetus: The Unborn in Myth, Religion, and Culture*. Oxford Univ. Press. Selby, Martha Ann. 2005. "Narratives of Conception, Gestation, and Labour in Sanskrit ?yurvedic Texts." *Asian Medicine: Tradition and Modernity*, vol. 1, no. 2: 254-275. Tewari, Premvati. 2003. *?yurved?ya Pras?titantra Eva? Str?toga*. 2 vols. 3rd Edition. Chaukhambha Orientalia. Tewari, Premvati V. 1997. *Introduction to K??yapa-Sa?hit?*. Chaukhambha Visvabharati. Yamashita, Tsutomu. 1995. "??r?rasth?na of the ?yurveda ? A Comparative Study." *Studies in the History of Indian** Thought*, vol. 7: 105-113. Best, Anthony Cerulli Hobart and William Smith Colleges On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 4:32 AM, Jonathan Silk wrote: > At the risk of being both slightly off topic and shamelessly > self-promoting, > one might also glance at my own? ?Maternity Homes and Abandoned Children in > Buddhist India.? *Journal of the American Oriental Society* 127/3: 297-314. > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > I'm searching for publications (or any other academic input), which > deal > > or touch upon the topic of religious attitudes, rituals etc. concerning > > conception/ embryonal development/ birth and early childhood in India > (past > > or present). > > > I would be absolutely grateful for any hint or advice. > > > > > > best, > > > Andrey Klebanov > > > > - - -- --- ----- -------- ------------- > > Will Tuladhar-Douglas > > Anthropology of Environments and Religions > > http://tending.to/garden > > > > > > > -- > J. Silk > Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden > Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS > Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 > Doelensteeg 16 > 2311 VL Leiden > The Netherlands > From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Fri Jan 28 15:48:46 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 11 21:18:46 +0530 Subject: Shakespeare in Sanskrit? In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F15DF36DCB2@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227091376.23782.11943807300903929223.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2053 Lines: 57 Thanks for this information. Something can still be done on this forgotten non-religious missionary who preceded Csoma di K?r?si. Best DB --- On Wed, 26/1/11, Thrasher, Allen wrote: From: Thrasher, Allen Subject: RE: [INDOLOGY] Shakespeare in Sanskrit? To: "'Dipak Bhattacharya'" , "INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk" Date: Wednesday, 26 January, 2011, 9:13 PM I stumbled across one example of Lebedev's translation work about a year ago and asked the catalogers to improve the record.? Here is what we have of his.? I have not investigated in WorldCat or elsewhere whether he did any further translations of dramas. Allen LC Control No.:? ? ???75904608 Personal Name:? ???Jodrell, Richard Paul, 1745-1831. Uniform Title:? ???Disguise. Bengali Main Title:? ? ? ? Ka?lpanika sam?badala : Em. Jod?arela biracita "Di ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? d?isga?ija" na?t?akera Ji. Es. Lebed?epha kr?ta ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ban?ga?nuba?da / S?ri?madanamohana Gosva?mi? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? sampa?dita. Published/Created: Kalika?ta? : Ya?dabapura Bis?vabidya?lay?a, 1963. Related Names:? ???Lebedev, Gerasim Stepanovich, 1749-1817. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Gosva?mi?, Madanamohana. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Jod?arela, Em. Related Titles:? ? Disguise. Description:? ? ???7, 143 p. : ill. ; 22 cm. Notes:? ? ? ? ? ???Added t.p. in English: The Disguise: a comedy. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Reproduced from a microfilm copy of a ms. preserved in the ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Central Dept. of Archives of the U.S.S.R., Moscow. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???In Bengali and English. LC Classification: PR3519.J6 D513 1963 Other System No.:? (OCoLC)19363126 CALL NUMBER:? ? ???PR3519.J6 D513 1963 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Copy 1 Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Jan 28 20:49:08 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 11 21:49:08 +0100 Subject: religious embryology in India In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091383.23782.1423722345052366538.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 707 Lines: 19 Several relevant chapters in, *Asie IV: Enfances, sous la direction de Flora Blanchon *(Paris: Presses de l'Universit? de Paris-Sorbonne, 1997). ISSN 1242-5761. ISBN 2-84050-076-0. The first page of the table of contents is given here; two more contents pages list further chapters on childhood issues in Nepal, India, and Sri Lanka. A chapter on childhood illnesses in ancient India by Guy Mazars. Etc. Probably an essential collection for someone working on any aspect of childhood in India or Asia more broadly. Best, Dominik Wujastyk From lubint at WLU.EDU Fri Jul 1 02:39:02 2011 From: lubint at WLU.EDU (Lubin, Tim) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 11 22:39:02 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_Chanting_of_=C5=9Blokas_or_k=C4=81vya?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092991.23782.13882362343854950313.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1549 Lines: 43 I have a number of such recordings of Dr. H. V. Nagaraja Rao of Mysore (who is known to many of you): http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint/texts/index.htm That page also has links to other sound recordings, notably including those of Ashwini Deo: http://pantheon.yale.edu/~asd49/meters.html and Tim Cahill: http://www.loyno.edu/~tccahill/skt_sound_files.html Timothy Lubin Professor, Department of Religion Lecturer in Law and Religion, School of Law 208 Baker Hall Washington and Lee University Lexington, Virginia 24450 USA American Philosophical Society sabbatical fellow, 2010-2011 lubint at wlu.edu | http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint | http://ssrn.com/author=930949 office: +1 540.458.8146 mob: +1 540.461.3435 From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 10:36 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Chanting of ?lokas or k?vya Dear colleagues, A student recently asked me if I could recommend some clear, beautiful, accurate recitation of Sanskrit ?lokas or other verses or even connected prose. He has about two years Sanskrit under his belt, but hasn't got the language strongly in his ears yet. Can you recommend any easily-available recordings, videos, or other media (free?) that would fit the bill? Many thanks Dominik !SIG:4e0c8f17198926551521308! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM Fri Jul 1 11:54:19 2011 From: j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Fri, 01 Jul 11 04:54:19 -0700 Subject: publication on recent history of indology : Erich Frauwallner In-Reply-To: <385B1ECFE7EA46A0B8AAED820CC6AD06@SlajePC> Message-ID: <161227093001.23782.3680470331650899175.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4083 Lines: 117 Dear List,? An author's reply to the review announced below of the book announced below below can be downloaded from:? http://www.zora.uzh.ch/48463/ Best wishes,? Jan Houben ________________________________ From: Walter Slaje To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:08 AM Subject: Re: publication on recent history of indology : Erich Frauwallner Dear List, a review in the German lanuguage of the book announced below can now be downloaded from: https://www.zora.uzh.ch/35376/ Kindly, WS ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. Publication announcement: Jakob Stuchlik: Der arische Ansatz: Erich Frauwallner und der Nationalsozialismus. 2009 Verlag der ?sterreichischen Akademie der Wissenschaften Austrian Academy of Sciences Press A-1011 Wien, Postgasse 7/4 ISBN 978-3-7001-6724-2 Print Edition ISBN 978-3-7001-6875-1 Online Edition Sitzungsberichte der phil.-hist. Klasse 797.Band 2009,? 202 Seiten, 22,5x15cm, broschiert ?? 42,? (http://epub.oeaw.ac.at/6724-2, oben links: Online Edition). My fast rendering of publisher's info: The ?Aryan approach? was repeatedly propagated by Erich Frauwallner at the intersection between Indology and society, where it apparently was a matter of presenting the results of detailed Indological research in the form of a compact and ?well-established? image of India to a wider audience. Especially in the Germanspeaking world and in Japan, Frauwallner has gone down in the history of his discipline, above all in the area of Buddhist Studies, as a scholarly authority. This influential scholarly reputation has led to the identification of the India-image presented by Frauwallner as identical with India itself. Since in its basic structure this picture is ?Aryanizing? and racist, it also contributes to the impression of an ?unholy alliance? between India and Nazi Germany. As long as the Nazi context in Frauwallner?s activity as a scholar and teacher is ignored, either by being passed over in silence or by being made to appear harmless, as has been done for decades in the Germanspeaking world, there can be no serious discussion concerning the degree to which ideology encumbers his scholarly and scholarly-political oeuvre. What exactly is being transmitted or inherited when Frauwallner is acclaimed as an authority and his philology considered exemplary scholarly work? In this book, the author examines the ?Aryan approach? not ?only? as a repeatedly presented racist periodization of Indian philosophy, but also as the conceptual key to the scholarly and scholarly-political work, and indeed to the life of a staunch Nazi. In the process, he exposes many facets of dubious dealings with the past, both before and after 1945. The importance of this book for the HISTORY of Indology is clear. Here I would also like to emphasize the indologically most relevant points raised by the author, Dr. Jakob Stuchlik: - that Frauwallner's periodization was a step backward compared to an earlier discussion by Goetz; - and that his approach would have led to an "Ueberbewertung der diskursiven Erkenntnis an der Objektebene seiner Wissenschaft". In addition, a Vorwort by Ernst Steinkellner is available at: steinkellner_vorwort_stuchlik_2009.pdf -------------------------------------------- Prof. Dr. Jan E.M. Houben, Directeur d Etudes ? Sources et Histoire de la Tradition Sanskrite ? Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, SHP, A la Sorbonne,45-47, rue des Ecoles, 75005 Paris -- France. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Fri Jul 1 06:36:56 2011 From: kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Kellner, Birgit) Date: Fri, 01 Jul 11 08:36:56 +0200 Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit in China (was No incoming Sanskrit students..) In-Reply-To: <76009b7a11b5e.4e0dbb94@anu.edu.au> Message-ID: <161227092995.23782.3160908186411749402.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1598 Lines: 40 ... and there's also an obituary of Ji Xianlin by Haiyan Hu-von-Hin?ber (in German), published in JIABS 32/1-2 (2009[2010]), pp. 5-9. Best regards, Birgit Kellner ________________________________________ Von: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] im Auftrag von McComas Taylor [McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU] Gesendet: Freitag, 1. Juli 2011 04:20 An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Betreff: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit in China (was No incoming Sanskrit students..) On Sanskrit in China, colleagues might be interested in reading selections from the autobiography of China's premier Sanskritist, Prof. Ji Xianlin (1911-2009): http://www.mldc.cn/sanskritweb/news/life_in_the_cattle_yard.pdf http://www.mldc.cn/sanskritweb/news/mirror.pdf On 30/06/11, mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU wrote: It is of some interest to compare the current lamentable situation in regard to Sanskrit education in India with the considerable flourishing of interest at major Chinese universities, including Beijing University, Renmin University, and Fudan University, among others. I have heard of introductory enrollments topping 60 in some cases. And the interest of Chinese students of Sanskrit is by no means limited to Buddhism, as one might have predicted, but now embraces kaavya, epic, and philosophical subjects. Although it is only tangentially related, as in the West, one may note that China is in the midst of a burgeoning yoga-craze as well. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Fri Jul 1 02:20:36 2011 From: McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Fri, 01 Jul 11 12:20:36 +1000 Subject: Sanskrit in China (was No incoming Sanskrit students..) In-Reply-To: <20110630064156.APC84374@mstore02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227092986.23782.7684460390151510329.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1348 Lines: 33 On Sanskrit in China, colleagues might be interested in reading selections from the autobiography of China's premier Sanskritist, Prof. Ji Xianlin (1911-2009): http://www.mldc.cn/sanskritweb/news/life_in_the_cattle_yard.pdf http://www.mldc.cn/sanskritweb/news/mirror.pdf On 30/06/11, mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU wrote: > It is of some interest to compare the current lamentable situation in regard to Sanskrit education in India with the > considerable flourishing of interest at major Chinese > universities, including Beijing University, Renmin > University, and Fudan University, among others. I have heard of introductory enrollments topping 60 in some cases. > And the interest of Chinese students of Sanskrit is > by no means limited to Buddhism, as one might have > predicted, but now embraces kaavya, epic, and philosophical > subjects. Although it is only tangentially related, as in > the West, one may note that China is in the midst > of a burgeoning yoga-craze as well. > > Matthew T. Kapstein > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies > The University of Chicago Divinity School > Directeur d'?tudes > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kengo.harimoto at UNI-HAMBURG.DE Fri Jul 1 10:31:11 2011 From: kengo.harimoto at UNI-HAMBURG.DE (Kengo Harimoto) Date: Fri, 01 Jul 11 12:31:11 +0200 Subject: 2 positions in Hamburg Message-ID: <161227092998.23782.1834911510400123042.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1011 Lines: 36 Dear Colleagues, A DFG funded project in Hamburg, Sonderforschungsbereich 950, Manuskriptkulturen in Asien, Afrika und Europa (Manuscript cultures in Asia, Africa and Europe), has two position openings that may be of interest for the members of this list. See http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/sfb/Jobs.html or http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/sfb/Jobs_e.html for details. The two positions are: B 04, "Dividing Texts: Conventions of visual text-organization in North Indian and Nepalese manuscripts up to ca. CE 1300" and C 01, "A Twelfth-Century East Indian Monastic Library and its Fate" B 04 is a 2/3-time position (intended primarily for Ph.D. candidates) and C 01 is a full-time (Post-doc) position. -- Dr. Kengo Harimoto kengo.harimoto at uni-hamburg.de Nepalese-German Manuscript Cataloguing Project Abteilung f?r Kultur und Geschichte Indiens und Tibets Universit?t Hamburg - Asien-Afrika-Institut Alsterterasse 1 20354 Hamburg Germany phone: +49-40-42838-6269 From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Fri Jul 1 17:53:24 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Fri, 01 Jul 11 13:53:24 -0400 Subject: No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University :-( In-Reply-To: <1309350885.55330.YahooMailClassic@web94813.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227093004.23782.16579005638571213712.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2579 Lines: 68 Dear List, Coincidentally, here is an angry account [ just yesterday!], by the well-known Classicist Mary Beard, of the abrupt and shocking dismantling of a Classics department in Britain [Univ. of London]: http://timesonline.typepad.com/dons_life/2011/06/classics-at-royal-holloway-under-threat.html We are all suffering [except for the ueberrich, of course!] from the devastating consequences of global casino capitalism.... George On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 8:34 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya < dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com> wrote: > The problem with Sanskrit education in India is that its attraction lies > mostly in the guarantee of jobs in schools. When Classical language is made > an optional subject in the secondary stage most schools drop the posts of > Teacher-in-Sanskrit to save money and the bell tolls for Sanskrit, when made > compulsory the University Departments overflow. In Bengal at present we are > seeing a tide following a long period of ebb. Let somebody howl and > influence a big constituency in Andhra, they will see good days. > Another fact. Till the early part of the twentieth century there was a > natural attraction for Sanskrit. The University Sanskrit departments drew > the best students till about the sixties in Bengal. The decline came after > that. > I often wonder if the same problems arose in the West too regarding Greek > and Latin. I asked some friends. They were reticent or did not know. Will > somebody kindly enlighten us? > Best > DB > > > --- On *Wed, 29/6/11, Herman Tull * wrote: > > > From: Herman Tull > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University > :-( > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Wednesday, 29 June, 2011, 12:10 PM > > > I was there as a student in the Wisconsin program 30+ years ago > (actually in Telugu, but Sanskrit and Telugu were housed together). It was > a pretty lively place back then... > > Has there been a similar dwindling of Sanskrit students at other large > Indian public universities? > > Herman Tull > > *From:* Dominik Wujastyk > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 29, 2011 4:01 AM > *To:* > *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University > :-( > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hyderabad/Sanskrit-goes-defunct-at-Andhra-University/articleshow/9032252.cms > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From somadevah at MAC.COM Sat Jul 2 18:24:39 2011 From: somadevah at MAC.COM (Som Dev Vasudeva) Date: Sat, 02 Jul 11 11:24:39 -0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Fwd:_[INDOLOGY]_Chanting_of_=C5=9Blokas_or_k_=C4=81vya?= Message-ID: <161227093007.23782.15168933814562363358.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1198 Lines: 34 See also the following which include the commentaries, making them useful as "audio books". Best, Somdev Vasudeva http://www.vedabhoomi.org/RaghuVamsha.html http://www.vedabhoomi.org/KumaraSambhava.html http://www.vedabhoomi.org/Kiratarjuneeyam.html http://www.vedabhoomi.org/MeghaSandesha.html http://www.vedabhoomi.org/SriAdiSankaracharyaBhasya.html > From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk > Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 10:36 AM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Chanting of ?lokas or k?vya > > Dear colleagues, > > A student recently asked me if I could recommend some clear, beautiful, accurate recitation of Sanskrit ?lokas or other verses or even connected prose. He has about two years Sanskrit under his belt, but hasn't got the language strongly in his ears yet. > > Can you recommend any easily-available recordings, videos, or other media (free?) that would fit the bill? > > Many thanks > Dominik > !SIG:4e0c8f17198926551521308! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sucindram_omlr at REDIFFMAIL.COM Sun Jul 3 08:09:00 2011 From: sucindram_omlr at REDIFFMAIL.COM (Anand Dilip) Date: Sun, 03 Jul 11 08:09:00 +0000 Subject: bhagavad geeta Message-ID: <161227093011.23782.12869046994874012936.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 698 Lines: 6 Dear Scholars,                              Do anyone know about the  Javanese translation of the Bhagavad geeta?                                                                                      Dr.Anand Dilip Raj -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gerard.fussman at COLLEGE-DE-FRANCE.FR Mon Jul 4 09:53:12 2011 From: gerard.fussman at COLLEGE-DE-FRANCE.FR (Gerard Fussman) Date: Mon, 04 Jul 11 11:53:12 +0200 Subject: announcement Message-ID: <161227093019.23782.12817605897731009499.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1383 Lines: 68 Fom. G?rard Fussman, College de France, Paris; SEECHAC IsIAO 7, Avenue V?lasquez 75008 PARIS - France Via Ulisse Aldrovandi, 16 Tel. : 00 33 (0)1 53 96 21 50 00197 Roma ROUND TABLE at IsIAO Organized and Chaired by Prof. Anna Maria Quagliotti (Napoli) Moderator: Prof. Kuo Liying (Paris) Wednesday, October 12, 2011 Avalokitesvara in India and Central Asia 9h30: Anna Maria Quagliotti (Napoli), Presentation. 9h40: G?rard Fussman (Paris), The beginnings of the iconography of Avalokitesvara in India. 10 h30: Monika Zin (M?nchen and Berlin), Avalokitesvara in India. 11 h: Anne Vergati (Paris), The cult.and iconography of Red Avalokitesvara in Nepal. 11h 30: Dorothy Wong (Charlottesville), Avalokitesvara in Central Asia and China. For more information: contact at seechac.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Mon Jul 4 18:22:21 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Mon, 04 Jul 11 14:22:21 -0400 Subject: Kiparsky article Message-ID: <161227093023.23782.4499996103464822995.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 420 Lines: 18 Dear List, I would be most grateful if one of you might be able to help me to gain access to the following article: Paul Kiparsky: "The Vedic Injunctive: Historical and Synchronic Implications," 2005 volume of the *Yearbook of South Asian Languages and Linguistics.* I do not have access to this yearbook and the price to private payer for this 15 page paper is USA $40.00! Thank you in advance, George Thompson From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Mon Jul 4 18:43:15 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Mon, 04 Jul 11 14:43:15 -0400 Subject: Kiparsky article In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093026.23782.8140498902487055857.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 760 Lines: 33 Dear List, Two nimble colleagues have pointed out that this and other articles of Kiparsky are readily available at his website: http://www.stanford.edu/~kiparsky/ I thank them both very much. Best wishes to all, George Thompson On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 2:22 PM, George Thompson wrote: > Dear List, > > I would be most grateful if one of you might be able to help me to > gain access to the following article: > > Paul Kiparsky: "The Vedic Injunctive: Historical and Synchronic > Implications," 2005 volume of the *Yearbook of South Asian Languages > and Linguistics.* > > I do not have access to this yearbook and the price to private payer > for this 15 page paper is USA $40.00! > > Thank you in advance, > > George Thompson > From andreaacri at MAC.COM Mon Jul 4 07:01:57 2011 From: andreaacri at MAC.COM (Andrea Acri) Date: Mon, 04 Jul 11 17:01:57 +1000 Subject: bhagavad geeta In-Reply-To: <20110703080900.17544.qmail@f5mail-224-166.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: <161227093015.23782.4601482597867260183.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1022 Lines: 27 Dear Dr. Raj, Probably you mean the Old Javanese version (actually an original rendering rather than a translation). Below here I paste the details of the published English translation and edition, both by Jan Gonda. Jan Gonda 1935, ?The Javanese version of the Bhagavadg?t??, Tijdschrift voor Indische Taal-, Land- en Volkenkunde 75, pp. 36?82. Jan Gonda 1936, Het Oudjavaansche Bhismaparwa. Bandoeng: A.C. Nix and Co. Regards, A.Acri On 03 Jul, 2011,at 06:09 PM, Anand Dilip wrote: > Dear Scholars, > Do anyone know about the Javanese translation of the Bhagavad geeta? > Dr.Anand Dilip Raj > > > Treat yourself at a restaurant, spa, resort and much more with Rediff Deal ho jaye! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From heike.moser at UNI-TUEBINGEN.DE Tue Jul 5 17:41:42 2011 From: heike.moser at UNI-TUEBINGEN.DE (Heike Moser) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 11 19:41:42 +0200 Subject: Kutiyattam - 10 Years after the UNESCO Declaration Message-ID: <161227093029.23782.15472653562855961668.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 880 Lines: 27 Dear members of the list, the newsletter about Kerala?s traditional Sanskrit theatre titled "Kutiyattam - 10 Years after the UNESCO Declaration" is now published online (Indian Folklife 38). All articles can be downloaded (open source): https://indianfolklore.org/journals/index.php/IFL/issue/view/109/showToc Best regards from Tuebingen, Heike Moser ------------------- Dr. Heike Moser Scientific Coordinator (AOI) & Assistant Professor (Indology) Eberhard Karls Universit?t Tuebingen Institute of Asian and Oriental Studies (AOI) Dept. of Indology and Comparative Religion Gartenstr. 19 ? 72074 Tuebingen ? Germany Phone +49 7071 29-74005 ? Mobile +49 176 20030066 ? Fax +49 7071 29-2675 heike.moser at uni-tuebingen.de http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/fakultaeten/philosophische-fakultaet/fachbereic he/aoi/indologie-vgl-religionswissenschaft/mitarbeiter/heike-moser.html From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Jul 6 01:21:59 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 11 21:21:59 -0400 Subject: No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University :-( Message-ID: <161227093032.23782.7541285481301777718.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2384 Lines: 36 Since we seem to segueing into the history of Latin, I'll offer an interesting tidbit rather off the main subject. Recently I discovered a tape and had it transferred to CD of my father interviewing my maternal grandmother about her family's history. She said that as a young girl in the country outside of Charlotte, North Carolina she had attended a proprietorial school run by the local Presbyterian minister. The minister taught the Latin classes himself but was frequently called away on pastoral duties, with the result the Latin training was spotty. For college she attended Queen's College (now Queen's University) in Charlotte, but because she didn't have enough Latin she was graduated with a certificate rather than a diploma and got no tassel on her mortarboard. I gather Queen's was not just a finishing school (or perhaps, rather, finishing schools were more demanding than a lot of colleges nowadays). She had a semester of Anglo-Saxon. While I'm at it, I'll mention that the part of West Virginia my father's people came from was settled by white Americans considerably later than various parts further West, because of its rough and dissected terrain. It was more or less frontier conditions well into the 19th century. A book of county history mentioned that the first ordination of a minister of religion in the county, in the 1830s, was of a Presbyterian minister, who first had to defend a theological thesis in public debate - in Latin. And then there is the classic old monologue from the review Beyond the Fringe, where Peter Cook explains why he had to become a miner rather than a judge because he didn't have the Latin. See several versions thereof on YouTube: < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNtkLAS_5dU > < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofUZNynYXzM&feature=related > < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grg5tULy0tY&feature=related >. O tempora, o mores. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress 101 Independence Ave., S.W. Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Jul 6 02:05:40 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 11 22:05:40 -0400 Subject: No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University :-( Message-ID: <161227093040.23782.14271893307700444497.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1265 Lines: 28 Dipak, You say, "Allen's information confirms that this is true of Latin too. This also explains why in India one finds few problems in finding material for Latin study, but has to do much more labour, often unsuccessful, for Homeric or Classical Greek studies. Studying Biblical Greek is less of a problem!" When you say "finding material," do you mean finding textbooks to teach oneself, or courses given in academic institutions? By the way, does anyone know about the extent of offering Latin and Greek in Indian institutions in the colonial period, for the sake of the IAS exams, or for that matter other exams? I looked into this once but couldn't find much. I suppose among other things one would have to look at the course catalogs of the colleges and universities. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress 101 Independence Ave., S.W. Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Jul 6 02:15:36 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 11 22:15:36 -0400 Subject: No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University :-( Message-ID: <161227093044.23782.17086316475420196689.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1511 Lines: 24 Shelly Pollock and I had some exchanges on the decline of Indian classical or philological studies, and also on the financing of Sanskrit studies in the colonial and early post-colonial period. One speculation I made, and it is nothing but a speculation, was whether the scholarship of Sanskrit and for that matter other premodern languages was de facto financed in part by incomes from lands the scholars inherited, which would have mostly ceased with the abolition of zamindari in the 1950s. If so, this might have made bright boys, and their families, more willing than in more recent decades to commit to the study and teaching of Sanskrit etc., because their salaries would not have been their whole incomes. Another economic factor was that the best scholars could publish one or more profitable books a year in the form of a text, notes, and commentary on the book set for that year's exams. With the greater number of students in Sanskrit, Prakrit, etc. back then this may have brought in substantial royalties. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress 101 Independence Ave., S.W. Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Wed Jul 6 01:53:47 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 11 07:23:47 +0530 Subject: No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University :-( In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F1AB34F4EA7@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227093036.23782.10613412413993901441.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3637 Lines: 46 6.7.2011 Dear Colleagues, Allen?s information is interesting. One of the frequent objections raised in India against the study of Sanskrit has been that it is a priests? language. It is not that there is not even an inkling of truth in the perception. For, howsoever we might claim philological interest as the guiding motive for Classical studies, this is true only in case of a few scholars in India. The study of Sanskrit has been sustained mainly by religious interest. Had there been no organization as the one built up by Pandit Nanaji Kale, many researches on ritual, here and in the West, could not have been carried on in the scale they have been. ? Allen?s information confirms that this is true of Latin too. This also explains why in India one finds few problems in finding material for Latin study, but has to do much more labour, often unsuccessful, for Homeric or Classical Greek studies. Studying Biblical Greek is less of a problem! Tells of something commonly shared? Best DB --- On Wed, 6/7/11, Thrasher, Allen wrote: From: Thrasher, Allen Subject: [INDOLOGY] No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University :-( To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 6 July, 2011, 1:21 AM Since we seem to segueing into the history of Latin, I'll offer an interesting tidbit rather off the main subject.? Recently I discovered a tape and had it transferred to CD of my father interviewing my maternal grandmother about her family's history.? She said that as a young girl in the country outside of Charlotte, North Carolina she had attended a proprietorial school run by the local Presbyterian minister.? The minister taught the Latin classes himself but was frequently called away on pastoral duties, with the result the Latin training was spotty.? For college she attended Queen's College (now Queen's University) in Charlotte, but because she didn't have enough Latin she was graduated with a certificate rather than a diploma and got no tassel on her mortarboard.? I gather Queen's was not just a finishing school (or perhaps, rather, finishing schools were more demanding than a lot of colleges nowadays).? She had a semester of Anglo-Saxon. ?While I'm at it, I'll mention that the part of West Virginia my father's people came from was settled by white Americans considerably later than various parts further West, because of its rough and dissected terrain. It was more or less frontier conditions well into the 19th century. ?A book of county history mentioned that the first ordination of a minister of religion in the county, in the 1830s, was of a Presbyterian minister, who first had to defend a theological thesis in public debate - in Latin. ?And then there is the classic old monologue from the review Beyond the Fringe, where Peter Cook explains why he had to become a miner rather than a judge because he didn't have the Latin.? See several versions thereof on YouTube:< http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNtkLAS_5dU >< http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofUZNynYXzM&feature=related >< http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grg5tULy0tY&feature=related >. ?O tempora, o mores. ? ?Allen ?Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.Senior Reference Librarian and Team CoordinatorSouth Asia TeamAsian DivisionLibrary of Congress101 Independence Ave., S.W.Washington, DC 20540-4810USAtel. 202-707-3732fax 202-707-1724The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. ? ? ? ? ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Wed Jul 6 04:54:47 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 11 10:24:47 +0530 Subject: No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University :-( In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F1AB34F4EAE@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227093049.23782.2267519062918876210.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2604 Lines: 51 Dear Allen, Since I am not aware of the official position in the Universities at present I can speak only from personal experience. So long as one was in the training Institute/process (Missionary School/College or generous individual teachers; regular teaching in the Universities was not known to me), there was no problem. The problem arose when pursuing the study. I could purchase two good Latin Dictionaries but none supplied me with one of Classical/Homeric Greek. It required much effort and prayer to xerox a dictionary of Biblical Greek. To prevent misconception I must add one more information. When I left the University, it did not become difficult for me to purchase reader-cum-grammars like Pharr?s HG or Wright?s Grammar of the Gothic language in Calcutta. Later I could also procure copies of comparative linguistic studies like the ones by Buck or Sturtevant (Hittite). Publications by Faber and Faber too are available in the market. It is the dictionaries of some rare (in India) languages that are difficult to procure. I hope the position is clear. Best DB ? --- On Wed, 6/7/11, Thrasher, Allen wrote: From: Thrasher, Allen Subject: [INDOLOGY] No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University :-( To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 6 July, 2011, 2:05 AM Dipak,You say, "Allen?s information confirms that this is true of Latin too. This also explains why in India one finds few problems in finding material for Latin study, but has to do much more labour, often unsuccessful, for Homeric or Classical Greek studies. Studying Biblical Greek is less of a problem!"When you say "finding material," do you mean finding textbooks to teach oneself, or courses given in academic institutions?By the way, does anyone know about the extent of offering Latin and Greek in Indian institutions in the colonial period, for the sake of the IAS exams, or for that matter other exams?? I looked into this once but couldn't find much.? I suppose among other things one would have to look at the course catalogs of the colleges and universities. ?AllenAllen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.Senior Reference Librarian and Team CoordinatorSouth Asia TeamAsian DivisionLibrary of Congress101 Independence Ave., S.W.Washington, DC 20540-4810USAtel. 202-707-3732fax 202-707-1724The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. ? ? ? ? ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From info at BARKHUIS.NL Wed Jul 6 10:00:08 2011 From: info at BARKHUIS.NL (Roelf Barkhuis) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 11 12:00:08 +0200 Subject: New issue of eJIM published Message-ID: <161227093053.23782.15844754538308413106.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1407 Lines: 73 Dear Indologists, eJIM, the free eJournal of Indian Medicine, has just published its latest issue at http://bjournals.ub.rug.nl/ejim. We invite you to review the Table of Contents herebelow and then visit our website to review articles and items of interest. eJIM currently has over 800 registered readers. Its counterpart aBIM, a Bibliography of Indian Medicine, has over 300 visitors per day. To search aBIM, visit eJIM and click on GO TO ABIM at the right side of the menu bar. Thank you for the continuing interest in our work, Roelf Barkhuis Publisher of eJIM info at barkhuis.nl --- eJIM - eJournal of Indian Medicine Vol 4, No 1 (2011) Table of Contents http://bjournals.ub.rug.nl/ejim/issue/view/36 Articles: Decoction of Morinda Citrifolia L. Leaves as a Herbal Medicine. Experimental Pharmacology - Two Synergistic Combination Effects for One Therapy (1-10) Andreanus A. Soemardji, Joseph I. Sigit Memoirs of Vaidyas. The Lives and Practices of Traditional Medical Doctors in Kerala, India (5) (11-33) Tsutomu Yamashita, P. Ram Manohar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dimitrov at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE Wed Jul 6 18:04:06 2011 From: dimitrov at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE (Dragomir Dimitrov) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 11 14:04:06 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?NEW_BOOK:______________=C5=9Aabd=C4=81la=E1=B9=83k=C4=81rado=E1=B9=A3avibh=C4=81ga?= Message-ID: <161227093056.23782.3797548619332349762.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1281 Lines: 46 NEW BOOK ANNOUNCEMENT ?abd?la?k?rado?avibh?ga Die Unterscheidung der Lautfiguren und der Fehler Kritische Ausgabe des dritten Kapitels von Da??ins Poetik K?vy?dar?a und der tibetischen ?bertragung S?an ?ag me lo? samt dem Sanskrit-Kommentar des Ratna?r?j??na, dem tibetischen Kommentar des Dpa? Blo gros brtan pa und einer deutschen ?bersetzung des Sanskrit-Grundtextes Teil 1: Einleitung, ?berlieferung, Textausgabe, ?bersetzung Teil 2: Kommentare, philologische Bemerkungen, Faksimiles, Anh?nge, Konkordanzen und Indizes Von Dragomir Dimitrov Wiesbaden 2011 Harrassowitz Verlag Ver?ffentlichungen der Helmuth von Glasenapp-Stiftung, Monographien 2 Hardcover, xii, 278 pp.; vi, 646 pp. ISBN: 978-3-447-06495-8 Price: EUR 178,00 (Set) For more details please see here: http://www.dragomir-dimitrov.net/bookstall.html http://www.indologica.de/drupal/?q=node/1627 http://www.harrassowitz-verlag.de/category_441.ahtml ________________________________________ Dr. Dragomir Dimitrov Indologie und Tibetologie Philipps-Universit?t Marburg Deutschhausstr. 12 D-35032 Marburg Germany Tel.: +49 6421 282 4640 , +1 610 400 5725 E-mail: dimitrov at staff.uni-marburg.de http://www.uni-marburg.de/indologie ________________________________________ From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Jul 6 18:50:23 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 11 14:50:23 -0400 Subject: FW: Publishing in India Today: 19,000 Publishers, 90,000 Titles, Many Opportunities Message-ID: <161227093059.23782.17346480378231516635.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4538 Lines: 66 Forwarded to me by a Library colleague. May be of some interest. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Asian Division, Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. [http://publishingperspectives.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/FBF-hotspots-2011.gif] [http://publishingperspectives.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Publishing-Perspectives-Daily-News.gif] International publishing news & opinion at publishingperspectives.com 07/06/2011 Feature Story / India: Publishing in India Today: 19,000 Publishers, 90,000 Titles, Many Opportunities Part 1 of look at India's publishing industry reveals rising challenges for editorial departments, new business models for distribution, and the rise of agenting in India. The publishing industry in South Asia as a whole, and India in particular, has never seen better times. There has been an astounding increase in the number of titles originating from and being produced in the region, in addition to large-scale investment in retail, fresh marketing tools and increasing standards of book production. The Indian scenario is particularly unique. With a whopping 550 million people below the age of 30, and with a significant and consumerist middle class, book sales in the country could well surpass all expectations. Amidst this excitement, one still finds a fractured infrastructure that presents a huge challenge and a consequent opportunity for the industry. First, there is the challenge of finding interested and trained professionals. Publishing was, and in many ways still is, a family-owned and family-run business, which means that many people in the profession were literally born into publishing. READ MORE >> Discuss: How Can We Nurture the Next Generation of Editorial Talent? As publishing technology evolves, the way authors and publishers develop content is also evolving. Editors are a passionate group of people dedicated to making books the best they can be, but what other skills will they need as the industry continues to digitize? Follow us on Twitter Get the RSS Feed Connect on LinkedIn Like us on Facebook -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Jul 6 19:11:01 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 11 15:11:01 -0400 Subject: promptness of Hindu funerals Message-ID: <161227093063.23782.9212508212817702557.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1903 Lines: 31 A colleague just told me that another colleague, a Hindu from India, died last Saturday morning and the funeral was the afternoon of the same day. It was a service with the deceased in a coffin, not the cremation. This raises some questions. 1. I was a long time ago told that in Indian civil law (or at least in Pune, where issue came up) the body must be disposed of, whether by cremation or burial, within 24 hours. But on the other hand I seem to recall the large-scale funerals of public figures taking place several days after their deaths. I can see that in a hot country without much refrigeration or tradition of embalming the State might want to mandate quick funerals for reasons of public health, and the family for reasons of smell. I have read accounts of the Second World War in the South Pacific that in the islands those killed would start stinking and visibly decaying within hours of death. In any case, does anyone know if there is such a civil law in India? 2. Is there anything in dharmasastra about how quickly cremations must follow death? 3. I gather that in general Islamic law demands a funeral within 24 hours. Is this correct? 4. I wonder if there is anywhere expressed the concern that one should watch with the body after apparent death to make sure the person is really dead and not comatose. There are those stories in Sanskrit of people waking up on the funeral pyre. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress 101 Independence Ave., S.W. Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Wed Jul 6 20:30:58 2011 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 11 15:30:58 -0500 Subject: promptness of Hindu funerals In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F1AB34F4EBF@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227093066.23782.16975019654594550642.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 550 Lines: 17 It may be worth recalling in this regard that, after the massacre of the Nepalese royal family some years ago, one of the complaints that was much aired was that the requirement of swift cremation precluded the possibility of proper autopsies. The physical evidence that might have corroborated or called into question the narratives of the event was thereby irrevocably lost. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From athr at LOC.GOV Thu Jul 7 21:44:47 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 11 17:44:47 -0400 Subject: promptness of Hindu funerals In-Reply-To: <20110706153058.API29851@mstore02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227093068.23782.11905682775896337720.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1236 Lines: 21 Matthew, Thanks for the tip. I consulted Modi's Medical Jurisprudence and Toxicology and D. K. Ganguly's book of the same title (both quite fascinating), and there was no mention of legal or customary requirements for a quick funeral that would have to be overriden to perform post-mortems and autopsies in the case of homicides and suicides, which I suspect means that if there is a civil law requirement it was purely municipal for Pune. Allen -----Original Message----- From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu [mailto:mkapstei at uchicago.edu] Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 4:31 PM To: Thrasher, Allen; INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] promptness of Hindu funerals It may be worth recalling in this regard that, after the massacre of the Nepalese royal family some years ago, one of the complaints that was much aired was that the requirement of swift cremation precluded the possibility of proper autopsies. The physical evidence that might have corroborated or called into question the narratives of the event was thereby irrevocably lost. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Fri Jul 8 15:25:18 2011 From: kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Birgit Kellner) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 11 17:25:18 +0200 Subject: Publication announcement: Religion and Lo gic in Buddhist Philosophical Analysis (Proceed ings of Fourth International Dharmak=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=ABrti?= Confe rence) Message-ID: <161227093071.23782.3949849692032660194.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4654 Lines: 142 Dear colleagues, it is my great pleasure to announce that the proceedings of the Fourth International Dharmak?rti Conference just appeared in print (and I humbly apologize for cross-posting): Krasser, Helmut; Lasic, Horst; Franco, Eli; Kellner, Birgit (eds.): Religion and Logic in Buddhist Philosophical Analysis. Proceedings of the Fourth International Dharmakirti Conference Vienna, August 23-27, 2005. Vienna 2011: Austrian Academy of Sciences Press (Beitr?ge zur Kultur- und Geistesgeschichte Asiens 69). ISBN13: 978-3-7001-7000-6. (69 EUR). Copies can be ordered online: http://verlag.oeaw.ac.at/products/Sachgebiete/Asienforschung/Religion-and-Logic-in-Buddhist-Philosophical-Analysis.html The volume contains 36 essays on the Buddhist logical and epistemological tradition in India and Tibet, addressing its cultural, philosophical and religious significance. A number of contributions report on the remarkable (and very important) newly discovered Sanskrit texts by Dharmak?rti and his followers that have become available in recent years; the critical reception of Dharmak?rti's work in non-Buddhist traditions is likewise dealt with in several essays. And last, but most certainly not least, the volume also contains Ernst Steinkellner's opening speech at the conference: "News from the manuscript department". List of contributions: Piotr Balcerowicz, Dharmak?rti?s criticism of the Jaina doctrine of multiplexity of reality (anek?ntav?da) Junjie Chu, Sanskrit fragments of Dharmak?rti?s Sant?n?ntarasiddhi Vincent Eltschinger, Studies on Dharmak?rti?s religious philosophy (3): Compassion and its role in the general structure of PV 2 43 Koji Ezaki, Can we say that everything is ineffable? Udayana?s refutation of the theory of apoha Eli Franco, Perception of yogis ? Some epistemological and metaphysical considerations Toru Funayama, Kamala??la?s view on yogic perception and the bodhisattva paths Brendan S. Gillon, Dharmak?rti on inference from effect. A discussion of verse 12 and the Svav?tti of the Sv?rth?num?na chapter of the Pram??av?rttika Klaus Glashoff, Problems of transcribing avin?bh?va into predicate logic Keijin Hayashi, Praj??karagupta?s interpretation of mental perception Yoshichika Honda, Bhoja and Dharmak?rti Pascale Hugon, Phya pa Chos kyi seng ge?s views on perception Masahiro Inami, Nondual cognition Hisataka Ishida, On the classification of any?poha Takashi Iwata, Compassion in Buddhist logic ? Dharmak?rti?s view of compassion as interpreted by Praj??karagupta Ky? Kan?, Dichotomy, antarvy?pti, and d????nta Kei Kataoka, Manu and the Buddha for Kum?rila and Dharmak?rti Shoryu Katsura, From Abhidharma to Dharmak?rti ? With a special reference to the concept of svabh?va Yohei Kawajiri, A critique of the Buddhist theory of adhyavas?ya in the Pratyabhij?? school Birgit Kellner, Dharmak?rti?s criticism of external realism and the sliding scale of analysis Hisayasu Kobayashi, On the development of the argument to prove vij?aptim?trat? Taiken Kyuma, On the (im)perceptibility of external objects in Dharmak?rti?s epistemology Lawrence McCrea, Praj??karagupta on the pram??as and their objects Shinya Moriyama, pram??apari?uddhasakalatattvaj?a, sarvaj?a and sarvasarvaj?a Yasutaka Muroya, Bh?sarvaj?a?s Interpretation of bh?va eva n??a? and a related chronological problem Hiroshi Nemoto, The proof of impermanence in the dGe lugs pa?s pram??a theory Miyako Notake, The concept of samay?bhoga in the refutation of the existence of universals Hideyo Ogawa, On the term anupalabdhi Masamichi Sakai, ??kyabuddhi and Dharmottara on the inference of momentariness based on the absence of external causes of destruction Kiyokuni Shiga, antarvy?pti and bahirvy?pti re-examined John Taber, Did Dharmak?rti think the Buddha had desires? Tom J.F. Tillemans, Dign?ga, Bh?viveka and Dharmak?rti on apoha Toshikazu Watanabe, Dharmak?rti?s intention to quote Pram??asamuccaya III 12 Jeson Woo, V?caspatimi?ra and J??na?r?mitra on the object of yogipratyak?a Zhihua Yao, Non-cognition and the third pram??a Chizuko Yoshimizu, What makes all the produced impermanent? Proof of impermanence and theory of causality ----------------------- With best regards, Birgit Kellner -------- Prof. Dr. Birgit Kellner Chair in Buddhist Studies Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context - Shifting Asymmetries in Cultural Flows" University of Heidelberg Karl Jaspers Centre Vossstra?e 2, Building 4400 D-69115 Heidelberg Phone: +49(0)6221 - 54 4301 Fax: +49(0)6221 - 54 4012 http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/en/home.html From athr at LOC.GOV Fri Jul 8 23:29:12 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 11 19:29:12 -0400 Subject: 'adolescence' in traditional India Message-ID: <161227093074.23782.737769296042871042.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1656 Lines: 22 Has anyone done a study of the effect on the presence, absence, or different nature of adolescence (add scare quotes to last word?) in traditional India, taking into account that until recently most people there were married at or before puberty and took up marital sexual life at puberty or shortly after? I would think the convenient availability of a socially and morally approved sexual outlet at home would have profound effects in differentiating that period of life from Western Europe and its extensions, where for centuries few people of either sex except maybe royalty and aristocracy got married before their twenties, and usually in the second half thereof for men. Granted that at least in Hindu homes the young couple have to play at ignoring each other, and there is mother-in-law's jealousy, but still the whole family including mother-in-law wants grandchildren and therefore presumably the acts that produce them. Maybe there's some classical treatment of this but I've never come across it. On the other hand, Gandhi certainly seems to have had an adolescence in spite of having a wife, and the subhasitas complain about the follies of young men. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress 101 Independence Ave., S.W. Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Sat Jul 9 15:34:15 2011 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Sat, 09 Jul 11 10:34:15 -0500 Subject: 'adolescence' in traditional India In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F1AB34F4EFC@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227093077.23782.10796021761727264715.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 613 Lines: 23 Allen, Anything in Meyer's Sexual Life in Ancient India? I haven't looked at it in years and don't recall if or how he deals with this. There is, I believe, some anthropological literature on the very category of "adolescence," which, as you suggest, seems a construct due to delayed marriage in industrial and post-industrial societies. I don't have any particular references for you, but this may be a direction worth pursuing. Matthew Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From jkirk at SPRO.NET Sat Jul 9 20:12:08 2011 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick) Date: Sat, 09 Jul 11 14:12:08 -0600 Subject: 'adolescence' in traditional India In-Reply-To: <20110709103415.APL09923@mstore02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227093083.23782.3277401796931933873.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3107 Lines: 74 Dear List, If I may: the famous anthropologist of the nineteen-forties up until the eighties when he died-- Verrier Elwin--made a huge point about the tribals that he studied, particularly the Muria: that they observed a sort of cultural adolescence where the young people lived in their own dormitories and experimented with/learned about sexuality, as well as the other norms of their culture. He also noticed tribal differences--the Muria tended to be non-possessive and therefore shed and took up with sexual partners freely, whereas one of the other tribes (the Saoras) observed fidelity to the partner with whom they set up household and had children. As I recall, the Gonds, with whom he lived off and on for years, did not have youth dormitories but he reported tham as being easy about sexual relations. The latter became a serious problem for Elwin when his Gond wife, Kosi, had an affair with someone during one of his many absences and got pregnant by her lover. The saga ended with Elwin divorcing, for various reasons I needn't relate here. Overall, Elwin made points in his many publications (both professional and journalistic) about how the tribals were more advanced than the civilised people of his time (Indian and British) in that women were not downtrodden but free to participate fully in tribal culture and to express their views. This was one of his main points, reiterated over his entire lifetime. He viewed tribals as observing a period of life, adolescence or youth culture, that was not otherwise typical of India, where women were married off early and sent after puberty to their inlaws. The best study of Elwin -- his problems with and support from government, with other anthropologists and public opinion, and his contributions to Indian ethnology -- is found in: Guha, Ramachandra. _Savaging the Civilized : Verrier Elwin, His Tribals, and India_. U Chicago P., 1999. Epilogue, Appendices, Acknowledgements, Notes, Index. 398pp. Not a first-rate Index, but it includes a list of Elwin's publications. The author did wide research into various holdings in UK and in India of Elwin's private and published writings, as well as interviews with people who had known him. Best wishes, Joanna Kirkpatrick -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 9:34 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] 'adolescence' in traditional India Allen, Anything in Meyer's Sexual Life in Ancient India? I haven't looked at it in years and don't recall if or how he deals with this. There is, I believe, some anthropological literature on the very category of "adolescence," which, as you suggest, seems a construct due to delayed marriage in industrial and post-industrial societies. I don't have any particular references for you, but this may be a direction worth pursuing. Matthew Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From kiparsky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU Sat Jul 9 15:58:30 2011 From: kiparsky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU (Paul Kiparsky) Date: Sat, 09 Jul 11 17:58:30 +0200 Subject: 'adolescence' in traditional India In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F1AB34F4EFC@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227093080.23782.13666483289174169926.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1864 Lines: 34 This has some relevant material: Deshpande, Kamalabai The child in ancient India S.N.D.T. Women's College, Poona, 1936 It's a dissertation from Prague directed by Winternitz. BTW I've been told the author was one of the first women from India to have gotten a Ph.D. in Europe. Paul On Jul 9, 2011, at 1:29 AM, Thrasher, Allen wrote: > Has anyone done a study of the effect on the presence, absence, or different nature of adolescence (add scare quotes to last word?) in traditional India, taking into account that until recently most people there were married at or before puberty and took up marital sexual life at puberty or shortly after? I would think the convenient availability of a socially and morally approved sexual outlet at home would have profound effects in differentiating that period of life from Western Europe and its extensions, where for centuries few people of either sex except maybe royalty and aristocracy got married before their twenties, and usually in the second half thereof for men. Granted that at least in Hindu homes the young couple have to play at ignoring each other, and there is mother-in-law's jealousy, but still the whole family including mother-in-law wants grandchildren and therefore presumably the acts that produce them. Maybe there's some classical treatment of this but I've never come across it. On the other hand, Gandhi certainly seems to have had an adolescence in spite of having a wife, and the subhasitas complain about the follies of young men. > > Allen > > Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. > Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator > South Asia Team > Asian Division > Library of Congress > 101 Independence Ave., S.W. > Washington, DC 20540-4810 > USA > tel. 202-707-3732 > fax 202-707-1724 > The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. > > From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Sun Jul 10 01:32:02 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 11 07:02:02 +0530 Subject: Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] 'adolescence' in traditional India Message-ID: <161227093086.23782.4848492408515011754.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2811 Lines: 30 --- On Sun, 10/7/11, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] 'adolescence' in traditional India To: "AllenThrasher" Date: Sunday, 10 July, 2011, 1:31 AM Dear Allen, I do not know of any Indian studies on adolescence in traditional India but you will find glimpses of the effect of the Indian family environment on the adolescent male (seconadarily female too) in the Bengali novel Pratham prahar (mid-fifties) by Ramapada Chowdhury which I read as an adolescent. myself. I do not know of any English translation. There are many stories of adolescent love in Bengali literature. Two filmed versions Balika badhu (Adolescent bride) and Shriman Prithviraj (Master Prithviraj), both directed by Tarun Majumdar, became popular all over India and shown in dubbed versions in non-Bengali languages. Best DB ? --- On Fri, 8/7/11, Thrasher, Allen wrote: From: Thrasher, Allen Subject: [INDOLOGY] 'adolescence' in traditional India To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Friday, 8 July, 2011, 11:29 PM Has anyone done a study of the effect on the presence, absence, or different nature of adolescence (add scare quotes to last word?) in traditional India, taking into account that until recently most people there were married at or before puberty and took up marital sexual life at puberty or shortly after?? I would think the convenient availability of a socially and morally approved sexual outlet at home would have profound effects in differentiating that period of life from Western Europe and its extensions, where for centuries few people of either sex except maybe royalty and aristocracy got married before their twenties, and usually in the second half thereof for men.? Granted that at least in Hindu homes the young couple have to play at ignoring each other, and there is mother-in-law's jealousy, but still the whole family including mother-in-law wants grandchildren and therefore presumably the acts that produce them.? Maybe there's some classical treatment of this but I've never come across it.? On the other hand, Gandhi certainly seems to have had an adolescence in spite of having a wife, and the subhasitas complain about the follies of young men.? ?Allen ?Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.Senior Reference Librarian and Team CoordinatorSouth Asia TeamAsian DivisionLibrary of Congress101 Independence Ave., S.W.Washington, DC 20540-4810USAtel. 202-707-3732fax 202-707-1724The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM Mon Jul 11 05:01:58 2011 From: venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM (venetia ansell) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 11 10:31:58 +0530 Subject: Subhashitas Message-ID: <161227093095.23782.17430996549268856794.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 647 Lines: 17 Can anyone help a friend with the query on subhashitas below? Thank you very much To judge from anthologies, it seems that in practice the sanskrit subhashita is always considered to consist of a single verse. I have been told a few subhashitas that define the subhashita, but none of them mention that a subhashita should consist of a single verse. I wonder if this criterion is made explicit in any sanskrit text. Phillip Ernest Viratanagar, Bommanahalli, Bengaluru -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ganesan at IFPINDIA.ORG Mon Jul 11 06:07:48 2011 From: ganesan at IFPINDIA.ORG (Ganesan) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 11 11:37:48 +0530 Subject: Contemporary reci tation of Skandapur=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81=E1=B9=87_a_m=C4=81h=C4=81tmya?= ? Message-ID: <161227093099.23782.5631586665496957068.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5309 Lines: 121 Friends, Among the maahaatmya-s listed by Mr. Taylor, I was told that the Kaa"siikha.n.da is being recited (at least in the month of kaarttika) in Varanasi; the Brahmottarakha.n.da is a very important religious text highly venerated by the saiva-s of Tamilnadu. It has been rendered into tamil verse by one of the descendants of later Pandya kings in the 16th century and has been published. I think the Brahmottarakha.n.da does not so much deal with the greatness of Varanasi. Some of the religious and even philosophical doctrines of Saivasiddhanta are discussed in that. It is the Kaa'siikha.n.da that excusively deals with Varanasi. There is a valuable commentary also for this which has been published. The Setumaahaatmya also has been Translated into Tamil verse under the name Cettuppuraa.nam. Long back I heard that the Venkatachalamaahaatmya used to be recited or expounded during Navaraatri celebrations in some parts of Karnataka, especially by vaishnava-s. Kaarttikamaahaatmya is being regularly recited during that month in Varanasi and I have even heard it being recited (interspersed with Hindi explanations) some years back in a Siva temple in Amritsar. With the best wishes, Ganesan Dr.T.Ganesan Senior Researcher in Saivasiddhanta French Institute of Pondicherry UMIFRE 21 CNRS-MAEE 11, St. Louis Street P.B. 33 PONDICHERRY-605001 INDIA Tel: +91 - 413 - 233 4168 ext. 123 E mail: ganesan at ifpindia.org Web: www.ifpindia.org ----- Original Message ----- From: McComas Taylor To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 10:18 AM Subject: [INDOLOGY] Contemporary recitation of Skandapur?? a m?h?tmya? Dear colleagues I am interested in the contemporary uses of puranic texts, in particulary the Skandapur??a. Below is a list of the main m?h?tmya of the Skanda. Do any of you good folk know if any of these texts are still recited or at least drawn on or employed in ritual in their relevant situations? Thanks in advance McComas Section no. Section title Contents of section 1.2 Kaum?rika-kha??a (KKh) m?h?tmya of Mah?s?garasa?gama t?rtha, (Kambath, Gujarat) 2.1 Ve?ka??cala-m?h?tmya (VM) Mt Tirumali, near Tirupati, AP 2.2 Puru?ottamak?etra- m?h?tmya (PM) Puri, Orissa 2.3 Badarik??rama-m?h?tmya (BM) Badrinath, Uttarakhand 2.4 K?rttikam?sa-m?h?tmya (KM) various rites to be performed during this month 2.6 Bh?gavata-m?h?tmya (BhM) m?h?tmya of Bh?gavata-pur??a 2.7 Vai??kham?sa-m?h?tmya (Vai?M) rites performed for Vi??u in month of Vai??kha 2.8 Ayodhy?-m?h?tmya (AM) t?rthas around Ayodhy?, UP 2.9 V?sudeva-m?h?tmya (V?sM) churning of the ocean, description of the earth, dharma of var?a and ??rama 3.1 Setu-m?h?tmya (SM) Ramsetu, TN ?Adam?s Bridge? 3.3 Br?hmottara-kha??a (BKh) greatness and glorification of ?iva 4.1-4.2 K???-kha??a Varanasi 5.3 Rev?-kha??a t?rthas and temples on banks of Narmad? R 6 N?gara-kha??a H??ake?varak?etra and Va?nagara, Gujarat 7.2 Vastr?pathak?etra- m?h?tmya (Va?ga.) Gujarat 7.4 Dv?rak?-m?h?tmya K???a?s capital after flight from Mathur?, traditionally associated with Gujarat -- McComas Taylor Head, South Asia Program ANU College of Asia and the Pacific Tel: +61 2 6125 3179 Location: Baldessin Precinct Building, 4.24 Website: http://arktos.anu.edu.au/chill/index.php/mct ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Learn about my courses: Sanskrit 1 | Indian Epics -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Mon Jul 11 04:48:42 2011 From: McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 11 14:48:42 +1000 Subject: Contemporary recitation of Skandapur=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81=E1=B9=87_a_m=C4=81h=C4=81tmya?= ? Message-ID: <161227093091.23782.3554997660727864948.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2512 Lines: 333 Dear colleagues I am interested in the contemporary uses of puranic texts, in particulary the Skandapur??a. Below is a list of the main m?h?tmya of the Skanda. Do any of you good folk know if any of these texts are still recited or at least drawn on or employed in ritual in their relevant situations? Thanks in advance McComas Section no. Section title Contents of section 1.2 Kaum?rika-kha??a (KKh) m?h?tmya of Mah?s?garasa?gama t?rtha, (Kambath, ?Gujarat) 2.1 Ve?ka??cala-m?h?tmya (VM) Mt Tirumali, near Tirupati, AP 2.2 Puru?ottamak?etra- m?h?tmya (PM) Puri, Orissa 2.3 Badarik??rama-m?h?tmya (BM) Badrinath, Uttarakhand 2.4 K?rttikam?sa-m?h?tmya (KM) various rites to be performed during this month 2.6 Bh?gavata-m?h?tmya (BhM) m?h?tmya of Bh?gavata-pur??a 2.7 Vai??kham?sa-m?h?tmya (Vai?M) rites performed for Vi??u in month of Vai??kha 2.8 Ayodhy?-m?h?tmya (AM) t?rthas around Ayodhy?, UP 2.9 V?sudeva-m?h?tmya (V?sM) churning of the ocean, description of the earth, dharma of var?a and ??rama 3.1 Setu-m?h?tmya (SM) Ramsetu, TN ?Adam?s Bridge? 3.3 Br?hmottara-kha??a (BKh) greatness and glorification of ?iva 4.1-4.2 K???-kha??a Varanasi? 5.3 Rev?-kha??a t?rthas and temples on banks of Narmad? R 6 N?gara-kha??a H??ake?varak?etra? and Va?nagara, Gujarat 7.2 Vastr?pathak?etra- m?h?tmya (Va?ga.) Gujarat 7.4 Dv?rak?-m?h?tmya K???a?s capital after flight from Mathur?, traditionally associated with Gujarat -- McComas Taylor Head, South Asia Program ANU College of Asia and the Pacific Tel: +61 2 6125 3179 Location: Baldessin Precinct Building, 4.24 Website: http://arktos.anu.edu.au/chill/index.php/mctLearn about my courses:? Sanskrit 1(http://www.screenr.com/NSBs)? |? Indian Epics(http://screenr.com/uUBs) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From donovevs at LIBERO.IT Mon Jul 11 14:34:23 2011 From: donovevs at LIBERO.IT (Svevo D'Onofrio) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 11 16:34:23 +0200 Subject: Perso-Indica Visiting Fellowships at the Sorbonne Nouvelle Message-ID: <161227093103.23782.2641114973101753907.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2451 Lines: 30 Perso-Indica Visiting Fellowships at the Sorbonne Nouvelle. The Perso-Indica Visiting Fellowships are offered at the Institut d?Etudes Iraniennes of the Sorbonne Nouvelle with the support of the research group ?Mondes iranien et indien? (UMR 7528) and the Fondation Colette Caillat of the Institut de France. The positions are open to outstanding senior and promising younger scholars from any country working on a research topic which can constitute an original and important contribution to the Perso-Indica project. Perso-Indica is a long term project, the purpose of which is to set up a comprehensive Critical Survey of Persian Works on Indian Learned Traditions, encompassing the treatises and translations produced between the 13th and the 19th century (for further details see: http://www.perso-indica.net). Perso-Indica is based in Paris (Sorbonne Nouvelle-UMR 7528) and was launched in 2010 with the financial support of the Institut Fran?ais de Recherche en Iran (Tehran) and the Iran Heritage Foundation (London). In addition, from 2011 onwards, it is supported by the research funds of the programme ?CNRS - Higher Education Chairs?, Iranian studies chair at the Sorbonne Nouvelle ? UMR 7528 ?Mondes iranien et indien?. Each Visiting Fellowship is for a period of 1 month. Two Fellowships are available during the academic year 2011-2012. One fellowship should be held in February or March 2012, starting February 1st or March 1st. The second fellowship should be held between May and June 2012 and allow the fellow to take part to the Perso-Indica Conference, to be held in Paris in early June 2012. Complete applications should be submitted by 30 September 2011. The Call for applications and the Application form can be downloaded from http://www.univ-paris3.fr/etudes-iraniennes. We would be grateful if you could post the announcement at your institution and circulate it, also via email, among colleagues and scholars who you think would be qualified and interested in applying for the fellowships. Kindest regards, Svevo D'Onofrio PhD, Research Fellow University of Bologna Department of Linguistics and Oriental Studies via Zamboni 33 - 40126 Bologna, Italy Tel: +39 051 2098471 Email: svevo.donofrio at unibo.it Homepage: www.perso-indica.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From annamisia at YAHOO.COM Wed Jul 13 08:38:19 2011 From: annamisia at YAHOO.COM (Anna A. Slaczka) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 11 01:38:19 -0700 Subject: Bhattacharya article Message-ID: <161227093106.23782.10537373602380500495.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 388 Lines: 11 Dear Friends and Colleagues, I urgently seek the article of Gouriswar Bhattacharya: 'Nandin and Vrsabha', Zeitschrift der deutschen morgenl?ndischen Gesellschaft Suppl. 3, 1977, pp. 1545-67. I am unable to come to Leiden these days where it might (or not) be available. So if someone has an e-version, I would be grateful for sending it off-list. Thanks!!! Anna Slaczka, Amsterdam. From annamisia at YAHOO.COM Wed Jul 13 09:05:01 2011 From: annamisia at YAHOO.COM (Anna A. Slaczka) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 11 02:05:01 -0700 Subject: Bhattacharya article In-Reply-To: <1310546299.49487.YahooMailClassic@web125520.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227093113.23782.7298756122336387498.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 793 Lines: 30 That was fast!!! I would like to thank Peter Wyzlic and Petra Kieffer-P?lz for sending the link to the article. Anna Slaczka Amsterdam --- On Wed, 7/13/11, Anna A. Slaczka wrote: > From: Anna A. Slaczka > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Bhattacharya article > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 10:38 AM > Dear Friends and Colleagues, > > I urgently seek the article of Gouriswar Bhattacharya: > 'Nandin and Vrsabha', Zeitschrift der deutschen > morgenl?ndischen Gesellschaft Suppl. 3, 1977, pp. 1545-67. > I am unable to come to Leiden these days where it might (or > not) be available. So if someone has an e-version, I would > be grateful for sending it off-list. > > Thanks!!! > > Anna Slaczka, > Amsterdam. > From saf at SAFARMER.COM Wed Jul 13 15:03:34 2011 From: saf at SAFARMER.COM (Steve Farmer) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 11 08:03:34 -0700 Subject: Rajesh Rao, Computing a Rosetta Stone for the Indus Script In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093122.23782.5981913972384564750.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5244 Lines: 115 On Jul 13, 2011, at 5:36 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > TED talk, March 2011: > > begin quote: > Rajesh Rao is fascinated by "the mother of all crossword puzzles": > How to decipher the 4000 year old Indus script. At TED 2011 he tells > how he is enlisting modern computational techniques to read the > Indus language, the key piece to understanding this ancient > civilization. > end quote. There is nothing new in Rao's claims, which were thoroughly debunked (among other places) by Richard Sproat in an invited article in _Computational Linguistics_ less than a year ago. See Richard Sproat, "Ancient Symbols, Computational Linguistics, and the Reviewing Practices of the General Science Journals," Computational Linguistics 36, 3 (Sept. 2010), 585-94. You can download the full article (open access) here: http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1162/coli_a_00011 As Richard argues, articles like the original paper by Rao in _Science_ that started this ball rolling should never have been published -- and say more about the degradation of standards in peer review practices (triggered in part by vastly increased information flows we are experiencing today) than about computational linguistics. The flaws in Rao's work are so obvious to computational linguists -- which it is important to note is not Rao's field, which explains in part the linguistic naivite in his work -- that the same claim (that Rao's research was not properly reviewed) was in fact made immediately after Rao's first paper appeared by a long series of computational linguists besides Sproat, including most prominently Mark Liberman and Fernando Pereira. For their comments and analysis, and the related analysis by the mathematician Cosma Shalizi, see here in the Language Log, made immediately after Rao's first paper was published: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1374 There is no need to repeat their technical arguments here. In brief, leaving aside mathematical niceties (for those, see the links above): the fact that there is order of some sort in Indus symbols has been known since the 1920s. GR Hunter demonstrated that using nothing more sophisticated than pencil and paper charts in his 1929 doctoral thesis on Indus signs. All that Rao has replicated using complex means is what any simple eyeballing of the signs makes immediately apparent. What Hunter and Rao (and many others before him who made similar claims, going back to the 1960s, about the "magic of computers" in "deciphering" the "script") didn't bother to mention: all symbol strings of every sort have order in them; this includes boy scout medals, horoscopal signs, alchemical symbols, mnemonic signs, magical symbols, clan signs, the signs on Kudurru stones, or conventional orders of saints or saint attributes in iconographical works. You can even find order of the same sort in modern multi-symbol airport and highway signs. You can also ashow from cross-cultural analyses of highway signs (Michael Witzel has made an interesting collection of these for our amusement) that there are different "dialects" of these symbols, none of which has to do with them supposedly encoding different "languages." As Farmer, Sproat, and Witzel showed in 2004, the kind of order that you find in Indus symbols shows up as well in the order of 'blazons' or medieval heraldic signs -- which obviously doesn't suggest that heraldic signs encode "language", as ordinarily understood. Sproat and his students are non embarked on a project in studying the various orders in different types of nonlinguistic signs, funded by grants from the National Science Foundation. More sensationalist nonsense has been written about the so-called Indus script than about any other pseudo-script I can think about -- grossly skewing our understanding of Indus civilization -- although the recent nonsense about "Pictish language" (inspired by Rao's work) comes close. On this, see again Liberman's trenchant remarks in the Language Log: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2227 See also here, where Liberman also points to Sproat's definitive article in _Computational Linguistics_, which "poses the question that I [Liberman] was too polite to ask": > How is it that papers that are so trivially and demonstrably wrong > get published in journals such as Science or the Proceedings of the > Royal Society? I personally think that the answer to that question has to do with the marketing uses of sensationalism in a period in which traditional subscription-based journals are forced to compete with open access materials, and editor succumb to the temptations of publishing papers so sensational that they are sure to get noticed in the popular press. We know that there was fierce inside opposition at Science magazine to publishing Rao's original paper, and yet Science refused to published even a short letter refuting the paper despite the widespread criticism the paper engendered from computational linguists due to a "lack of space." Very rushed comments above (on a deadline that has nothing to do with anything Indus). Regards, Steve Farmer From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Wed Jul 13 15:39:30 2011 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 11 08:39:30 -0700 Subject: Rajesh Rao, Computing a Rosetta Stone for the Indus Script In-Reply-To: <0F0A3E07-88D3-4A7F-9211-B8077D678356@safarmer.com> Message-ID: <161227093128.23782.2344377440444767465.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7695 Lines: 76 After listening to Rao's talk and reading Sproat's article, I find myself wondering what the argument is about. Here are some things that occur to me: 1. The seals were clearly used as stamps to indicate ownership. They then are either names or special combinations of signs to indicate a person or group. 2. Even if they are "writing," that is a system where each sign corresponds to a sound or group of sounds, they probably lack real syntax. "Jack Sprat" doesn't tell us anything about English verb forms or any other syntactic features of the language, even though it is writing. 3. If the signs have no relationship to language, don't the seals contain too many of them for people to remember handily? On the other hand, if the signs do correspond to syllables/words (fish symbol = m??, star), people would have a much easier way of remembering them -- instead of having to remember an abstract group of 12 symbols, they could just remember the system. 4. My last name is "Hart," and my father put big hearts on his shutters. This is not writing, but the symbol clearly mirrors its pronunciation -- had my father been Russian-speaking, he would not have used a heart. 5. Is it not possible that there is some intermediate solution. Why should the seals have no relationship whatsoever to the language they spoke? This doesn't seem logical to me. On the other hand, I doubt that they are "writing" in the sense we think of it, as we can't really expect to find complex syntactical and morphological structures in them. It is certainly possible, I would think, that the IV people never developed writing in the way that other civilizations did, but that doesn't mean that they didn't have a system that contained phonetic correspondences with their own language. I'm not entirely sure what Steve Farmer et al. are contending -- do they suggest there is no phonetic content whatsoever to the signs? Everyone seems to agree that the order of the signs is not random. Do they reflect any sort of underlying syntax, or are they arranged by some other system (Gods / Men / Animals)? It also strikes me that if there were two people named "Hart," someone might put a pot over the heart to indicate that was the Hart that was also a potter as opposed to the Hart that ran an inn. This would be a partially phonetic system. None of this proves or disproves that the fish symbol might have been pronounced m??. George Hart On Jul 13, 2011, at 8:03 AM, Steve Farmer wrote: > On Jul 13, 2011, at 5:36 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > >> TED talk, March 2011: >> >> begin quote: > >> Rajesh Rao is fascinated by "the mother of all crossword puzzles": How to decipher the 4000 year old Indus script. At TED 2011 he tells how he is enlisting modern computational techniques to read the Indus language, the key piece to understanding this ancient civilization. > >> end quote. > > There is nothing new in Rao's claims, which were thoroughly debunked (among other places) by Richard Sproat in an invited article in _Computational Linguistics_ less than a year ago. See Richard Sproat, "Ancient Symbols, Computational Linguistics, and the Reviewing Practices of the General Science Journals," Computational Linguistics 36, 3 (Sept. 2010), 585-94. > > You can download the full article (open access) here: > > http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1162/coli_a_00011 > > As Richard argues, articles like the original paper by Rao in _Science_ that started this ball rolling should never have been published -- and say more about the degradation of standards in peer review practices (triggered in part by vastly increased information flows we are experiencing today) than about computational linguistics. > > The flaws in Rao's work are so obvious to computational linguists -- which it is important to note is not Rao's field, which explains in part the linguistic naivite in his work -- that the same claim (that Rao's research was not properly reviewed) was in fact made immediately after Rao's first paper appeared by a long series of computational linguists besides Sproat, including most prominently Mark Liberman and Fernando Pereira. > > For their comments and analysis, and the related analysis by the mathematician Cosma Shalizi, see here in the Language Log, made immediately after Rao's first paper was published: > > http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1374 > > There is no need to repeat their technical arguments here. In brief, leaving aside mathematical niceties (for those, see the links above): the fact that there is order of some sort in Indus symbols has been known since the 1920s. GR Hunter demonstrated that using nothing more sophisticated than pencil and paper charts in his 1929 doctoral thesis on Indus signs. All that Rao has replicated using complex means is what any simple eyeballing of the signs makes immediately apparent. > > What Hunter and Rao (and many others before him who made similar claims, going back to the 1960s, about the "magic of computers" in "deciphering" the "script") didn't bother to mention: all symbol strings of every sort have order in them; this includes boy scout medals, horoscopal signs, alchemical symbols, mnemonic signs, magical symbols, clan signs, the signs on Kudurru stones, or conventional orders of saints or saint attributes in iconographical works. > > You can even find order of the same sort in modern multi-symbol airport and highway signs. You can also ashow from cross-cultural analyses of highway signs (Michael Witzel has made an interesting collection of these for our amusement) that there are different "dialects" of these symbols, none of which has to do with them supposedly encoding different "languages." > > As Farmer, Sproat, and Witzel showed in 2004, the kind of order that you find in Indus symbols shows up as well in the order of 'blazons' or medieval heraldic signs -- which obviously doesn't suggest that heraldic signs encode "language", as ordinarily understood. > > Sproat and his students are non embarked on a project in studying the various orders in different types of nonlinguistic signs, funded by grants from the National Science Foundation. > > More sensationalist nonsense has been written about the so-called Indus script than about any other pseudo-script I can think about -- grossly skewing our understanding of Indus civilization -- although the recent nonsense about "Pictish language" (inspired by Rao's work) comes close. On this, see again Liberman's trenchant remarks in the Language Log: > > http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2227 > > See also here, where Liberman also points to Sproat's definitive article in _Computational Linguistics_, which "poses the question that I [Liberman] was too polite to ask": > >> How is it that papers that are so trivially and demonstrably wrong get published in journals such as Science or the Proceedings of the Royal Society? > > > I personally think that the answer to that question has to do with the marketing uses of sensationalism in a period in which traditional subscription-based journals are forced to compete with open access materials, and editor succumb to the temptations of publishing papers so sensational that they are sure to get noticed in the popular press. > > We know that there was fierce inside opposition at Science magazine to publishing Rao's original paper, and yet Science refused to published even a short letter refuting the paper despite the widespread criticism the paper engendered from computational linguists due to a "lack of space." > > Very rushed comments above (on a deadline that has nothing to do with anything Indus). > > Regards, > Steve Farmer From saf at SAFARMER.COM Wed Jul 13 15:51:29 2011 From: saf at SAFARMER.COM (Steve Farmer) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 11 08:51:29 -0700 Subject: Rajesh Rao, Computing a Rosetta Stone for the Indus Script In-Reply-To: <67501D95-8DD5-47C9-972C-F208EDAA6B76@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227093125.23782.956167480058904875.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1694 Lines: 46 I unfortunately don't have time to deal with this old issue again here right now, but quickly: George Hart writes: > After listening to Rao's talk and reading Sproat's article, I find > myself wondering what the argument is about. Here are some things > that occur to me: > > 1. The seals were clearly used as stamps to indicate ownership. They > then are either names or special combinations of signs to indicate a > person or group. 1. Everyone who studies these symbols first hand knows that seals are only one of many types of Indus artifacts that carry symbols. You find Indus symbols on lots of things that surely had nothing to do with "names" or "ownership." 2. If you look at Ancient Near Easter seals from the third millennium BCE, you'll find that only a minority of them have names on them. We discuss this and other things you raise in our original 2004 paper that first questioned the old assumption that that Indus symbols were linguistic. > I'm not entirely sure what Steve Farmer et al. are contending -- do > they suggest there is no phonetic content whatsoever to the signs? > Everyone seems to agree that the order of the signs is not random. > Do they reflect any sort of underlying syntax, or are they arranged > by some other system (Gods / Men / Animals)? What Farmer, Sproat, and Witzel 2004 contend is clearly delineated in our paper, which discusses questions like these: http://www.safarmer.com/fsw2.pdf > > None of this proves or disproves that the fish symbol might have > been pronounced m??. Probably one of the silliest claims ever made about the symbols, with no evidence whatsoever to back it. Best, Steve From saf at SAFARMER.COM Wed Jul 13 17:16:03 2011 From: saf at SAFARMER.COM (Steve Farmer) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 11 10:16:03 -0700 Subject: Rajesh Rao, Computing a Rosetta Stone for the Indus Script In-Reply-To: <13929689-19C5-4513-A5D8-9C711615F172@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227093131.23782.11963303437846833321.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4328 Lines: 93 Dear George [Hart], Just a quick follow-up on one interesting and critical issue you raise, re. rebuses: > It also strikes me that if there were two people named "Hart," > someone might put a pot over the heart to indicate that was the Hart > that was also a potter as opposed to the Hart that ran an inn. This > would be a partially phonetic system. Premodern peoples punned compulsively, as we know from many different types of sources globally. And visual puns of the sort you point to also show up in every known ancient civilization, both literate and non-literate. But the use of visual-verbal puns (rebuses) certainly is not unique to what any specialist would view as a "script" in the technical sense of the term. Writing as understood by specialists in literate systems entails a lot more than just casual phoneticism. The usual claim about the so-called Indus script (at least before we published our 2004 paper - claims now are far more modest) was that it was a "full script," implying that it was capable in principle of encoding any speech act. That takes a lot more than the kind of casual phoneticism you point to, which is pervasive globally in emblematic, clan, and heraldic symbol systems (even in Mongolian horse branding systems). In Western heraldic systems, for example, this kind of punning is known as "canting arms," which often included extraordinarily complex multi-symbol puns of the sort you refer to. For many nice examples, see < http://www.heraldica.org/topics/canting.htm > (see especially the section entitled "Complex Rebuses"). But use of rebuses aside, no one would sanely call systems of heraldic signs, which include a lot of casual phoneticism, "writing systems" or "scripts" as linguists typically use that term. Can you write a book with heraldic signs? Or perform the ultimate test I'd contend of a "writing system" -- write a book about another book. Could you write a post using those signs about an ancient pseudo- script? :^) Neither finding "nonrandom order" in symbols -- ALL symbol systems, linguistic and nonlinguistic, are nonrandom in order (try to come up with a counterexample!) -- nor casual phoneticism or punning or use of rebuses, is evidence of writing. Order is found in ALL symbol systems, not just literate one; and punning is common, in linguistic and non- literate systems both. Did the Indus peoples in whatever languages (certainly multiple) that they spoke make puns? Certainly, if they were like all other ancient peoples we know (the way the brain is structured punning is in fact inevitable). Did they have a writing system in the technical sense of that term? The evidence argues strongly against that -- starting above all with the embarrassing shortness of every one of the many thousands of Indus symbol strings that have come down to us, on over a dozen different kinds of materials. One of the most interesting things about the Indus civilization, given its massive size, is precisely the fact that all indications point to its nonlinguistic status. This is far from unique in the premodern world -- many major urban civilizations in premodern Mesoamerica and South America also functioned without writing. And the same seems to have been true of the urban civilizations neighboring the Indus on the southeastern Iranian plains as well, and north as well. But writing is a major enabling technology in civilization, and the apparent nonliterate status of the Indus goes a long way towards explaining a number of obvious differences between the urban remains associated with the Indus and those associated with their distant literate neighbors in the Ancient Middle East. Pace Possehl and others, major urban civilizations certainly do NOT require literacy. Michael Witzel and I discussed some of problems the old script thesis introduced into studies of Indus civilization -- and some of the new approaches opened up in those studies by the non-script view -- in a paper presented at Harvard last October. Abstract here: http://www.safarmer.com/IndusValleyFantasies.pdf Unfortunately I'm under the gun and really can't take this any further at the moment. But I did find your comments about punning interesting. Regards, Steve From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Wed Jul 13 08:41:09 2011 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 11 10:41:09 +0200 Subject: Bhattacharya article In-Reply-To: <1310546299.49487.YahooMailClassic@web125520.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227093109.23782.12145587079487121311.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 592 Lines: 19 Am 13.07.2011 um 10:38 schrieb Anna A. Slaczka: > I urgently seek the article of Gouriswar Bhattacharya: 'Nandin and Vrsabha', Zeitschrift der deutschen morgenl?ndischen Gesellschaft Suppl. 3, 1977, pp. 1545-67. I am unable to come to Leiden these days where it might (or not) be available. So if someone has an e-version, I would be grateful for sending it off-list. > See URL: Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Wed Jul 13 17:58:06 2011 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 11 10:58:06 -0700 Subject: Steve Farmer's Reply Message-ID: <161227093138.23782.8040920311537912304.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4853 Lines: 47 The following reply from Steve Farmer lays out his position in a short and lucid way. I am posting it with his permission, as I think others will be interested. I don't want this forum to become a locus of IV speculation, as there is no end to that, but I do believe it's worth summarizing some of the current thinking. Perhaps someone on the other side ("It is writing") could post a similarly clear and abridged statement of their position. George Hart Dear George [Hart], Just a quick follow-up on one interesting and critical issue you raise, re. rebuses: > It also strikes me that if there were two people named "Hart," someone might put a pot over the heart to indicate that was the Hart that was also a potter as opposed to the Hart that ran an inn. This would be a partially phonetic system. Premodern peoples punned compulsively, as we know from many different types of sources globally. And visual puns of the sort you point to also show up in every known ancient civilization, both literate and non-literate. But the use of visual-verbal puns (rebuses) certainly is not unique to what any specialist would view as a "script" in the technical sense of the term. Writing as understood by specialists in literate systems entails a lot more than just casual phoneticism. The usual claim about the so-called Indus script (at least before we published our 2004 paper - claims now are far more modest) was that it was a "full script," implying that it was capable in principle of encoding any speech act. That takes a lot more than the kind of casual phoneticism you point to, which is pervasive globally in emblematic, clan, and heraldic symbol systems (even in Mongolian horse branding systems). In Western heraldic systems, for example, this kind of punning is known as "canting arms," which often included extraordinarily complex multi-symbol puns of the sort you refer to. For many nice examples, see < http://www.heraldica.org/topics/canting.htm > (see especially the section entitled "Complex Rebuses"). But use of rebuses aside, no one would sanely call systems of heraldic signs, which include a lot of casual phoneticism, "writing systems" or "scripts" as linguists typically use that term. Can you write a book with heraldic signs? Or perform the ultimate test I'd contend of a "writing system" -- write a book about another book. Could you write a post using those signs about an ancient pseudo-script? :^) Neither finding "nonrandom order" in symbols -- ALL symbol systems, linguistic and nonlinguistic, are nonrandom in order (try to come up with a counterexample!) -- nor casual phoneticism or punning or use of rebuses, is evidence of writing. Order is found in ALL symbol systems, not just literate one; and punning is common, in linguistic and non-literate systems both. Did the Indus peoples in whatever languages (certainly multiple) that they spoke make puns? Certainly, if they were like all other ancient peoples we know (the way the brain is structured punning is in fact inevitable). Did they have a writing system in the technical sense of that term? The evidence argues strongly against that -- starting above all with the embarrassing shortness of every one of the many thousands of Indus symbol strings that have come down to us, on over a dozen different kinds of materials. One of the most interesting things about the Indus civilization, given its massive size, is precisely the fact that all indications point to its nonlinguistic status. This is far from unique in the premodern world -- many major urban civilizations in premodern Mesoamerica and South America also functioned without writing. And the same seems to have been true of the urban civilizations neighboring the Indus on the southeastern Iranian plains as well, and north as well. But writing is a major enabling technology in civilization, and the apparent nonliterate status of the Indus goes a long way towards explaining a number of obvious differences between the urban remains associated with the Indus and those associated with their distant literate neighbors in the Ancient Middle East. Pace Possehl and others, major urban civilizations certainly do NOT require literacy. Michael Witzel and I discussed some of problems the old script thesis introduced into studies of Indus civilization -- and some of the new approaches opened up in those studies by the non-script view -- in a paper presented at Harvard last October. Abstract here: http://www.safarmer.com/IndusValleyFantasies.pdf Unfortunately I'm under the gun and really can't take this any further at the moment. But I did find your comments about punning interesting. Regards, Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Jul 13 12:36:55 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 11 14:36:55 +0200 Subject: Rajesh Rao, Computing a Rosetta Stone for the Indus Script Message-ID: <161227093116.23782.12413941359607813501.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 595 Lines: 17 TED talk, March 2011: begin quote: > Rajesh Rao is fascinated by "the mother of all crossword puzzles": How to > decipher the 4000 year old Indus script. At TED 2011 he tells how he is > enlisting modern computational techniques to read the Indus language, the > key piece to understanding this ancient civilization. end quote. http://www.ted.com/talks/rajesh_rao_computing_a_rosetta_stone_for_the_indus_script.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Jul 13 14:39:20 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 11 16:39:20 +0200 Subject: Kane vol.3 update Message-ID: <161227093119.23782.17463130529567905904.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 976 Lines: 27 A couple of months ago, I uploaded the first edition of Kane's *History of Dharmasastra* to archive.org. Today I discovered some pages were missing from v.3 (pp.217-224), so I've re-made the PDF from a new set of scans (thanks to the DLI), and uploaded the new version. It's here: http://www.archive.org/details/HistoryOfDharmasastraancientAndMediaevalReligiousAndCivilLawV.3 Best, Dr Dominik Wujastyk Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Vienna Austria Project: http://www.istb.univie.ac.at/caraka/ -- Long-term email address: wujastyk at gmail.com PGP key: http://wujastyk.net/pgp.html -- Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of storage free: https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTIzNzI2MTY5 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU Thu Jul 14 00:27:46 2011 From: rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU (Alexander von Rospatt) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 11 17:27:46 -0700 Subject: Mangalam Research Center Fall Programs in Yogacara Studies Message-ID: <161227093143.23782.7626665591382982636.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3674 Lines: 32 Dear Colleagues, please take a note of the below announcement that I post on behalf of Jack Petranker, Director of the Mangalam Research Center at Berkeley. Alexander von Rospatt ---------------- Mangalam Research Center for Buddhist Languages in Berkeley, CA is pleased to announce three separate but related programs in the field of Yog?c?ra and Sanskrit studies, to be held from October 31-November 22. The programs are open to scholars and advanced graduate students. The details are as follows: Seminar on the Tri??ik? (Oct. 31 ? Nov, 3, 2011), to be led by Jowita Kramer (Oxford University) and Alexander von Rospatt (University of California). See below for a more detailed description. Drs. Charles Muller, William Waldron, and Florin Deleanu will participate in both programs, together with Drs. Luis G?mez and Michael Hahn, MRC?s Academic Directors. Graduate students interested in the seminar and symposium should have a good working knowledge of Sanskrit. Knowledge of Tibetan and/or Chinese is helpful. This seminar can be attended separately. Symposium on Yog?c?ra Terminology (Nov. 4 ? 6, 2011). This program is part of MRC?s ongoing program of research into terminology suitable for translating canonical Buddhist texts and the creation of an online database to facilitate such work. It will build on the work done during the Tri??ik? Seminar, and all the scholars listed above will take part. Seminar participants are welcome to stay on for the Symposium. MRC also invites advanced graduate students who enroll in the seminar and symposium to stay on for a Residential Program to run from November 7-22. The program will be led by Professors Hahn and G?mez and our Senior Research Fellows. The Residential Program is intended primarily for ABD students writing a dissertation on a topic related to Yog?c?ra whose schedule allows them to be absent from their university for this length of time. It will provide an opportunity to work closely with senior scholars, postdoctoral fellows, and other students engaged in similar research. Students will learn skills and receive advice that will lead directly to a better dissertation and contribute in the long-term to their abilities as translators, teachers, and editors. Description of the Tri??ik? Seminar: In his Thirty Verses (Tri??ik?) Vasubandhu (4th/5th c.) gives a short but comprehensive overview of key concepts of the Yog?c?ra tradition. In the first part of the text Vasubandhu summarizes the multiple functions of the mind, including actual perception, the so-called store-house conciousness (?layavij??na), and the conceit 'I am' identified with the kli??amanas. The second section of the Tri??ik? is dedicated to the treatment of the three ?natures? (svabh?va) of phenomena -- conceptualized, dependent, and perfected -- and to the three ways of not having an intrinsic nature (ni?svabh?vat?). In the last part of his work Vasubandhu analyzes the concept of ?representation only? (vij?aptim?trat?) and investigates its relation to the realization of true reality. Participants will read Vasubandhu's Thirty Verses in the Sanskrit original and examine the meaning of key Yog?c?ra terms and concepts, and how to best render them in English. Passages from Sthiramati?s commentary Tri??ik?vij?aptibh??ya will also be consulted. For details on how to apply, costs, housing options, etc. please see the MRC website, www.mangalamresearch.org. Regards, Jack Petranker Director, Mangalam Research Center -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hellwig7 at GMX.DE Wed Jul 13 17:16:11 2011 From: hellwig7 at GMX.DE (Oliver Hellwig) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 11 18:16:11 +0100 Subject: New version of the DCS Message-ID: <161227093135.23782.1423063539478244518.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1767 Lines: 41 Dear list, a new version of the Digital Corpus of Sanskrit (DCS) is now available at http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/index.php. My special thanks go to Mr. Dulip Withanage at the HRA in Heidelberg for his prompt, competent, and patient help in setting up the new version! As citations and similar text passages have been a big issue in Germany for the last few months, the corpus now displays parallel passages in Sanskrit literature. You can find some theoretical background about the search algorithm at http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/index.php? contents=help_citations. Basically, the database has been scanned for text passages that have at least 4 "non-trivial" words in common. Words may occur in free order, so dharmArthagobrAhmaNa and brAhmaNArthadharmago are accepted as similar. Parallels are displayed on the one hand in a large graph (select the menu item "Parallels"). Here, a line between two texts represents the parallels (click on the line to display the text passages). Texts marked green in this graph contain many incoming and outgoing links and are, therefore, important nodes in the network of parallels. On the other hand, parallels can be displayed for each individual chapter in a text. Try, for example, Manusmriti 1.1, which contains 130 parallel or similar passages (sentences starting with "=> ..."). Hope, this function may be helpful for a better understanding of some aspects of text transmission in ancient India. In addition, I corrected a bug that prevented user input and corrections on the text page. Best regards, Oliver Hellwig ------------------- PD Dr. Oliver Hellwig South-Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg Im Neuenheimer Feld 330 69120 Heidelberg Germany From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Jul 13 23:15:29 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 11 19:15:29 -0400 Subject: prices of Khotan or Newari mss Message-ID: <161227093140.23782.256811313230898854.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 949 Lines: 35 If anyone is aware of the prices of recently purchased or recently appraised Khotan mss (in Sanskrit or Khotanese) or early (pre-18th c.) mss from Nepal, could they please contact me off-list ASAP? Also, asking prices would be of interest, whether realized or not. I have searched the ArtFact database. No, none of our South Asian mss are missing, but we have been asked about the very most valuable ones. Please feel free to forward. Thanks very much. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress 101 Independence Ave., S.W. Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From saf at SAFARMER.COM Thu Jul 14 16:16:52 2011 From: saf at SAFARMER.COM (Steve Farmer) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 11 09:16:52 -0700 Subject: The Indus script as proto-writing In-Reply-To: <20110714175025.18083tjvtik7n29d.aparpola@webmail.helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <161227093156.23782.2057929205390061245.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 15794 Lines: 297 Dear List, It is interesting to note at a minimum that Asko's views (cited in full below) have radically changed since we published our 2004 paper. As Asko has generously pointed out in conferences that we have both attended -- most recently in Kyoto in 2009 -- due to our work he at least no longer claims that the so-called "Indus script" is full writing, but only qualifies as a "proto-writing" system. The difference is not trivial, given his much more spectacular claims otherwise in his classic book on the so-called script (Parpola 1994) and in dozens of earlier and later articles, going back to the late 1960s, when (like Rao 40 years later) Asko too claimed that he had "cracked the Indus code" using computers. (Asko, unlike Rao, later retracted his claims.) So there has been big movement in the field since we published our paper in 2004. However, the "proto-writing" idea Asko has in recent years adopted as a fall-back position doesn't work either, for quite obvious reasons we already discussed in our 2004 paper. (Over 200,000 reprints of that paper have been downloaded from my server alone since it was first published, but sometimes I wonder if anyone has actually read it through, given some of the odd comments made about it.) On page 33 of that study, after discussing evidence of a lack of significant phoneticism in Indus symbol strings known from stratigraphic evidence to be exclusively very late (on bar inscriptions without iconography) we comment that this evidence http://www.safarmer.com/fsw2 > suggests that the Indus system was not even > evolving in linguistic directions after at least 600 years of use. > Since we know that Indus elites > were in trade contact throughout those centuries with Mesopotamia, > if the Harappans really had a > script, by this time we would expect it to have possessed > significant phoneticism, as always > assumed. (The usual claim is that the system was a ?mixed? script > made up of sound signs, whole- > word signs, and function signs, like the Luwian system, cuneiform, > or Egyptian hieroglyphs.) > The implication is that the Indus system cannot even be comfortably > labeled as a ?proto-script?, > but apparently belonged to a different class of symbols: it is > hardly plausible to argue that a proto- > script remained in a suspended state of development for six > centuries or more while its users were > in regular contact with a high-literate civilization. Asko below (and elsewhere) has tried to counter this argument by anachronistically citing Archaic Sumerian as a parallel example. That is a very strange claim: it seems quite odd to us to draw parallels between uniformly short Indus symbol strings from ca. 1900 BCE -- a very high literate period throughout the Middle East -- with "proto- writing" from the Sumerians as much as 1500 years earler! Again, to quote our original 2004 paper, to which no additional comment is needed: > it is hardly plausible to argue that a proto- > script remained in a suspended state of development for six > centuries or more while its users were > in regular contact with a high-literate civilization. And a period of high literacy it was indeed! We have hundreds of thousands of extraordinarily long texts from this period in the Middle East -- and at the same the Indus were supposedly still working out the principles of writing in their "proto-writing" system?? The same of course goes for Asko's comparisons to early Egyptian writing from the late 4th millennium BCE -- an odd comparison again to make surely with early 2nd millennium artifacts carrying excruciatingly short symbol strings from the Indus Valley. Moreover, as we tried to point out to him in Kyoto in 2009, he repeatedly miscites Baines' work on this point . Asko writes, clearly thinking of (but not citing) our comments about the Indus system not evolving in phonetic directions for over 600 years (as discussed in evidence in the locus cited in our paper above): > ... for about 600 years equalling the duration of the Indus > Civilization ? the Egyptians used a language-based, phoneticized > writing system, but did not write full sentences, only very short > texts fully comparable to the surviving texts in the Indus script. > Early administrative documents are assumed to have existed but have > not survived (cf. Baines 1999: 884). I have in front of me Baines' fullest collection of his articles on early writing in Egypt, _Visual & Written Culture in Ancient Egypt_ (Oxford 2007), which contains a number of his early and later essays on the origins of writing in Egypt. It contains a variety of illustrations of early Egyptian texts -- going back to *before* 3000 BCE -- which are indeed "true writing" and are many times longer than *any* of the thousands of short symbol chains we find from the Indus civilization from as much as well over a thousand years later. The "proto-writing" thesis simply isn't any more credible than the "full writing" thesis that we buried in 2004. Supposedly the Harappans couldn't figure out how to move from "proto- writing" to "full writing" for 600 years when their trade neighbors in the Near East were producing hundreds of thousands of massive texts? That wouldn't say much for the "Indus wisemen." Massive and redundant evidence -- much of which Asko himself has gathered for us -- demonstrates that Indus symbols were of a different non-linguistic type. Moreover, similar non-linguistic symbol systems were common in the ancient world at the same time -- existing side-by- side with literate systems -- as we also discuss at length in our paper. It is possible as Michael Witzel, Richard Sproat, and I have argued at considerable length -- also Steven Weber and Dorian Fuller, in papers we've given as far back as 2005 (again in Kyoto) -- to learn a great deal about the Indus civilization by systematically studying the spatial and geographical distribution of the signs using a computerized data base of known "inscriptions" -- aided by a special visual interface designed specifically for this purpose. Ironically, as we again argued in our original paper -- in part of it that is rarely cited, since everyone is still caught up in the (quite obvious) "it isn't a script" issue -- the symbols are more valuable to us as historical evidence simply because they are NOT part of a writing system. In Kyoto in 2009 we offered to finance (up to $100,000!) through the Cultural Modeling Research Group the creation of an online data base of the signs optimized for such purposes. Asko, Richard Meadow, and Mark Kenoyer among others were invited to join us in the Project. Our view is that once the evidence that we have access to was made more accessible to the public -- now the evidence is buried in extraordinarily expensive volumes -- the *obviousness* of the non- linguistic nature of the signs would be evident to everyone. Asko declined the offer. We are happy however that Asko at least no longer views the Indus signs as part or a full writing system, capable (as he suggested in his book in 1994: 54) of encoding long narratives of the sort found throughout the Ancient Near East in the same time period./ But the "proto-writing" thesis is no more credible, for reasons quickly sketched above. It is unfortunate given all the wonderful new evidence that we have in the symbols to still be caught up in "Indus script" discussions, which asks all the wrong questions. The Indus civilization is much more interesting for what is was, and not for what many -- some with nationalist political agendas -- have imagined it to be. That is the theme of a book that Michael Witzel and I have wanted to write for some years (_Indus Valley Fantasies_) but have not yet found the time to put together. Sorry again for the very quick note: on tight deadlines. Best, Steve Farmer On Jul 14, 2011, at 7:50 AM, Asko Parpola wrote: > Quoting "George Hart" : > >> The following reply from Steve Farmer lays out his position in a >> short and lucid way. I am posting it with his permission, as I >> think others will be interested. I don't want this forum to become >> a locus of IV speculation, as there is no end to that, but I do >> believe it's worth summarizing some of the current thinking. >> Perhaps someone on the other side ("It is writing") could post a >> similarly clear and abridged statement of their position. George >> Hart >> > > I take up George Hart's challenge with the following reply: > > > The Indus script as proto-writing > > Asko Parpola > > It is widely agreed that the Archaic Sumerian script or "Proto- > Cuneiform" is the world's oldest writing system, used in the Late > Uruk Period (Uruk strata IV and III, c. 3400-3000 BCE). It was used > as an administrative tool to record on clay tablets such matters as > grain distribution, land, animal and personnel management, and the > processing of fruits and cereals. "The script can be 'understood' in > some sense, but it cannot be fully read; although there has been > some doubt concerning the language that was the basis for this > written expression, there is clear evidence that it was > Sumerian" (Michalowski 1996: 33). Archaic Sumerian was logosyllabic > writing because its signs stood for elements of a spoken language, > words and morphemes, with initially rare phonetization. It was not > from the beginning able to record everything: it took many centuries > of ever increasing phonetization for this "nuclear writing" to > develop into a "full writing" where all grammatical elements were > written. Yet it is considered "true writing", because it was a > language-based system of visual aigns. > The Egyptian Hieroglyphic writing was certainly used in Pre- > Dynastic times. The royal tomb U-j at Umm el-Qa'ab near Abydos in > Upper Egypt, dated to c 3200 BCE, contained 150 inscribed bone tags > originally attached to grave goods recording the places of origin of > these goods, as well as pottery inscriptions and sealings. These > were excavated in 1988 and published ten years later (Dreyer 1998). > This earliest form of Egyptian script was already a well-formed > logophonic writing system, which can be partially understood on the > basis of later Egyptian writing. "By the early 1st Dynasty, almost > all the uniconsonantal signs are attested, as well as the use of > classifiers or determinatives, so that the writing system was in > essence fully formed even though a very limited range of material > was written." (Baines 1999: 882). "Many inscribed artifacts are > preserved from the first two Dynasties, the most numerous categories > being cylinder seals and sealings, cursive annotations on pottery, > and tags originally attached to tomb equipment, especially of the > 1st Dynasty kings. Continuous language was still not > recorded" (Baines 1999: 883). Thus until the beginning of the Old > Kingdom starting with the 3rd Dynasty in 2686 BCE ? for about 600 > years equalling the duration of the Indus Civilization ? the > Egyptians used a language-based, phoneticized writing system, but > did not write full sentences, only very short texts fully comparable > to the surviving texts in the Indus script. Early administrative > documents are assumed to have existed but have not survived (cf. > Baines 1999: 884). > When defining the Indus script as logosyllabic, I noted several > constraints to be observed in its analysis: "the linguistic elements > that are expected to correspond to the signs are morphemes rather > than phonemes. Secondly, all of the morphemes pronounced in the > spoken Indus language may not, and are not even likely to, have a > counterpart in its written form. In the third place, all preserved > Indus inscriptions are very short, appearing on objects like seals, > which are not so likely to contain even normal sentences, with such > basic constituents as a verbal predicate or an object, let alone > complex sentences." (Parpola 1994: 89). This was before Damerow > (1999) suggested the term 'proto-writing' for the earliest, > linguistically incomplete notations (cf. Houston ed. 2004: 11); on > these earliest writing systems see especially Houston ed. 2004. > In my opinion Farmer, Sproat and Witzel (2004: 19 and 33) err when > they suggest that "the Indus system cannot be categorized as > 'script' ... capable of systematically encoding speech", and that it > "cannot even be comfortably labeled as a 'proto-script', but > apparently belonged to a different class of symbols." Their > principal arguments, the shortness of Indus texts, their restriction > to only a few text types, and the long duration (c 600 years) of > this stage of script evolution, are effectively annulled by what is > said above about the early Sumerian and Egyptian scripts. For their > other arguments I refer to an earlier paper of mine (Parpola 2008). > George Hart wrote yesterday (13 July 2011): "None of this proves or > disproves that the fish symbol might have been pronounced [in > Dravidian] m??. Steve Farmer wrote in reply (13 July 2011): > Probably one of the silliest claims ever made about the symbols, > with no evidence whatsoever to back it. My reply: there is actually > a lot of evidence to back it (see Parpola 1994: 179-272; and new > evidence in Parpola 2009). Due to a complete lack of bilinguals, it > is very difficult to verify sign interpretations, but not altogether > impossible. Perhaps the most important test stone is supplied by the > nominal compounds actually existing in languages that are > historically likely to be related to the Harappan language: these > can be compared to Harappan sign sequences that can be pictorially > interpreted and perhaps deciphered with the help of linguistically > acceptable homophonies (used in all early scripts for phonetication: > the rebus puns). The accumulation of iconically acceptable, > systematic and interconnected interpretations can eliminate chance > coincidences in a process comparable to filling cross-word puzzles. > > References: > > Baines, John, 1999. Writing: invention and early development. Pp. > 882-885 in: Kathryn A. Bard (ed.), Encyclopedia of the archaeology > of ancient Egypt. London and New York: Routledge. > > Dreyer, G?nter, 1998. Umm el-Qaab I: Das pr?dynastische K?nigsgrab > U-j und seine fr?hen Schriftzeugnisse. (Arch?ologische > Ver?ffentlichungen 86.) Mainz: Verlag Philipp von Zabern. > > Farmer, Steve, Richard Sproat and Michael Witzel, 2004. The collapse > of the Indus-scrpt thesis: The myth of a literate Harappan > civilization: Electronic Journal of Vedic Studies 11 (2): 19-57. > > Houston, Stephen (ed.), 2004. The first writing: Script invention as > history and process. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. > > Michalowski, Piotr, 1996. Mesopotamian cuneiform: Origins. Pp. 33-36 > in: Peter T. Danies & William Bright (eds.), The world's writing > systems. New York: Oxford University Press. > > Parpola, Asko, 1994. Deciphering the Indus script. Cambridge: > Cambridge University Press. > > Parpola, Asko, 2008. Is the Indus script indeed not a writing > system? Pp. 111-131 in: Airavati: Felicitation volume in honour of > Iravatham Mahadevan, Chennai: Varalaaru.com. Downloadable from www.harappa.com > > Parpola, Asko, 2009. 'Hind leg' + 'fish': Towards further > understanding of the Indus script. Scripta 1: 37-76. (Downloadable > at www.harappa.com) From saf at SAFARMER.COM Thu Jul 14 16:35:11 2011 From: saf at SAFARMER.COM (Steve Farmer) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 11 09:35:11 -0700 Subject: The Indus script as proto-writing In-Reply-To: <8ACFDEF3-8A91-4891-91D3-8D7E4AE22F8E@safarmer.com> Message-ID: <161227093159.23782.4059521115715487932.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1879 Lines: 45 The URL I give to our 2004 paper in the section below was incomplete. The correct address to download it: http://www.safarmer.com/fsw2.pdf On Jul 14, 2011, at 9:16 AM, Steve Farmer wrote: > > However, the "proto-writing" idea Asko has in recent years adopted > as a fall-back position doesn't work either, for quite obvious > reasons we already discussed in our 2004 paper. (Over 200,000 > reprints of that paper have been downloaded from my server alone > since it was first published, but sometimes I wonder if anyone has > actually read it through, given some of the odd comments made about > it.) > > On page 33 of that study, after discussing evidence of a lack of > significant phoneticism in Indus symbol strings known from > stratigraphic evidence to be exclusively very late (on bar > inscriptions without iconography) we comment that this evidence > > http://www.safarmer.com/fsw2 > >> suggests that the Indus system was not even >> evolving in linguistic directions after at least 600 years of use. >> Since we know that Indus elites >> were in trade contact throughout those centuries with Mesopotamia, >> if the Harappans really had a >> script, by this time we would expect it to have possessed >> significant phoneticism, as always >> assumed. (The usual claim is that the system was a ?mixed? script >> made up of sound signs, whole- >> word signs, and function signs, like the Luwian system, cuneiform, >> or Egyptian hieroglyphs.) >> The implication is that the Indus system cannot even be comfortably >> labeled as a ?proto-script?, >> but apparently belonged to a different class of symbols: it is >> hardly plausible to argue that a proto- >> script remained in a suspended state of development for six >> centuries or more while its users were >> in regular contact with a high-literate civilization. Steve Farmer From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Thu Jul 14 18:03:07 2011 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 11 11:03:07 -0700 Subject: The Indus script as proto-writing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093162.23782.1240869840098685656.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2622 Lines: 31 In reading over the interchange between Steve and Asko, I can't help wondering: if the IV civilization was in contact with other civilizations in the Near East, as it apparently was, why didn't they borrow writing from them if they had none of their own? It seems to me -- and I admit to being naive on this point -- that writing systems spread quite readily and inevitably. Thus Brahmi in South Asia, Phoenician in the Middle East and Europe, Chinese in East Asia, etc. Wouldn't the IV civ. have borrowed cuneiform writing if they had none of their own? It's hard for me to imagine that their traders came into contact with something so useful as a developed writing system and didn't either imitate it or borrow it. George Hart On Jul 14, 2011, at 9:35 AM, Steve Farmer wrote: > The URL I give to our 2004 paper in the section below was incomplete. The correct address to download it: > > http://www.safarmer.com/fsw2.pdf > > On Jul 14, 2011, at 9:16 AM, Steve Farmer wrote: >> >> However, the "proto-writing" idea Asko has in recent years adopted as a fall-back position doesn't work either, for quite obvious reasons we already discussed in our 2004 paper. (Over 200,000 reprints of that paper have been downloaded from my server alone since it was first published, but sometimes I wonder if anyone has actually read it through, given some of the odd comments made about it.) >> >> On page 33 of that study, after discussing evidence of a lack of significant phoneticism in Indus symbol strings known from stratigraphic evidence to be exclusively very late (on bar inscriptions without iconography) we comment that this evidence >> >> http://www.safarmer.com/fsw2 >> >>> suggests that the Indus system was not even >>> evolving in linguistic directions after at least 600 years of use. Since we know that Indus elites >>> were in trade contact throughout those centuries with Mesopotamia, if the Harappans really had a >>> script, by this time we would expect it to have possessed significant phoneticism, as always >>> assumed. (The usual claim is that the system was a ?mixed? script made up of sound signs, whole- >>> word signs, and function signs, like the Luwian system, cuneiform, or Egyptian hieroglyphs.) >>> The implication is that the Indus system cannot even be comfortably labeled as a ?proto-script?, >>> but apparently belonged to a different class of symbols: it is hardly plausible to argue that a proto- >>> script remained in a suspended state of development for six centuries or more while its users were >>> in regular contact with a high-literate civilization. > > Steve Farmer From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Jul 14 09:35:23 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 11 11:35:23 +0200 Subject: prices of Khotan or Newari mss In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F1AB34F4F48@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227093147.23782.16983637293665636041.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1607 Lines: 83 There's a fairly constant stream of Skt MSS being sold through ebay.com. They're often very cheap (though sometimes just a few folios), except when illustrated. See here. Caveat emptor, of course. Dominik On 14 July 2011 01:15, Thrasher, Allen wrote: > If anyone is aware of the prices of recently purchased or recently > appraised Khotan mss (in Sanskrit or Khotanese) or *early* (pre-18th c.) > mss from Nepal, could they please contact me off-list ASAP? Also, asking > prices would be of interest, whether realized or not.**** > > ** ** > > I have searched the ArtFact database.**** > > ** ** > > No, none of our South Asian mss are missing, but we have been asked about > the very most valuable ones.**** > > ** ** > > Please feel free to forward.**** > > ** ** > > Thanks *very* much.**** > > ** ** > > Allen**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.**** > > Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator**** > > South Asia Team**** > > Asian Division**** > > Library of Congress**** > > 101 Independence Ave., S.W.**** > > Washington, DC 20540-4810**** > > USA**** > > tel. 202-707-3732**** > > fax 202-707-1724**** > > The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of > Congress.**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From saf at SAFARMER.COM Thu Jul 14 19:48:05 2011 From: saf at SAFARMER.COM (Steve Farmer) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 11 12:48:05 -0700 Subject: The Indus script as proto-writing In-Reply-To: <20110714212450.861033avhd00jc6q.aparpola@webmail.helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <161227093167.23782.6602712517083443775.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4427 Lines: 92 Not to quibble, Asko, but your dates are way off, and associations of late Indus artifacts bearing symbols with Sumerian writing long before it still seems very odd and anachronistic. Note also of course that the length of Sumerian texts by the dates you cite were also orders of magnitude longer than the longest Indus "texts" (so called) ever found. Also your claim of "new evidence" of when the "Indus script was created." Are we back to traditional claims that some Harappan genius created the supposed script (now claimed as "proto-writing") in one fell swoop and then it became "frozen"? It isn't a credible view. And that aside, you still fail to address the obvious question that would pop up in the mind of anyone not trained by a massive (and misdirected) literature to think otherwise: Why would the Indus still be using a putative proto-script 700 years or later -- with the average length of the supposed "texts" being under 5 symbols long -- while at the same time throughout the Middle East they were writing massive volumes, indeed *hundreds* of thousands of them longer than the longest supposed Indus "text" -- on similar durable materials, in a wide range of urban civilizations? The thesis that all the thousands of Indus artifacts carrying ridiculously short "texts" represent "writing" or "proto-writing" stretches all credulity. If this was a "proto-writing" system frozen in its development that is an indication of a profound conservatism in ancient civilizations that we don't find elsewhere. Not ONE ancient literate civiization is known that failed to leave long texts behind on durable materials -- unless of course the Indus peoples are a lone example, which is highly unlikely given their long contact with literate civilizations. A picture is worth a thousand words: To put this all in context, it is fun to look at the longest Indus "inscription" (if that's even the right word) on a single-sided object bearing symbols (17 of them, 11 of them high frequency and none repeated even once on the object -- hardly a suggestion of phoneticism) with a single proto-Elamite inscription from 800-1000 or more yeasr earlier. The caption on the photo: "Size Matters" -- some evidence of what *true* "proto-writing" (the usual status assigned to proto-Elamite) typically looks like: http://www.safarmer.com/Indo-Eurasian/comparison.html George Hart earlier today asked some extremely interesting and relevant questions about why the Indus didn't borrow a script from their neighbors. I don't have time to address that right now (noon California time), but I will say something about that later tonight, George. I think the question has some good answers and possibly clues to why the Harappans (like Vedic peoples even by the middle of the first millennium BCE, until the Persians entered the scene) eschewed writing, though they certain knew of it. Back later tonight. Best, Steve On Jul 14, 2011, at 11:24 AM, asko.parpola at helsinki.fi wrote: > Quoting "Steve Farmer" : > > >> Asko below (and elsewhere) has tried to counter this argument by >> anachronistically citing Archaic Sumerian as a parallel example. >> That is a very strange claim: it seems quite odd to us to draw >> parallels between uniformly short Indus symbol strings from ca. >> 1900 BCE -- a very high literate period throughout the Middle East >> -- with "proto-writing" from the Sumerians as much as 1500 years >> earler! > > When the Indus script was created - according to the new evidence > from Harappa around 2600 BCE - the Sumerian script had become more > phoneticized but was still at the "nuclear writing" stage: I have > illustrated this by citing a recurrent phrase in its Early Dynastic > version from Fara (c 2500 BCE) and its later 'classical' Sumerian > version (see Parpola 1994: 34, after Miguel Civil and R. D. Biggs, > Notes sur des textes sum?riens arch?ques, Revue d'Assyriologie 60, > 1966: 12f.). Apparently the Indus script functioned sufficiently > well for the Harappan needs so that they found no reason for any > major modification. > > My participation in this debate ends here as far as the present > discussion is concerned. Thank you for the opportunity to present my > present view on the nature of the Indus script. > > With best regards, Asko Parpola > From saf at SAFARMER.COM Thu Jul 14 21:20:32 2011 From: saf at SAFARMER.COM (Steve Farmer) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 11 14:20:32 -0700 Subject: The Indus script as proto-writing In-Reply-To: <526792E8-E92A-4920-A579-BC21907CC98B@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227093170.23782.9365459204905358742.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 9045 Lines: 167 Dear George, Actually, vs. my last message, let me get to your interesting questions quickly while Indus materials are still in mind. On Jul 14, 2011, at 11:03 AM, George Hart wrote: > In reading over the interchange between Steve and Asko, I can't help > wondering: if the IV civilization was in contact with other > civilizations in the Near East, as it apparently was, why didn't > they borrow writing from them if they had none of their own? It > seems to me -- and I admit to being naive on this point -- that > writing systems spread quite readily and inevitably. Thus Brahmi in > South Asia, Phoenician in the Middle East and Europe, Chinese in > East Asia, etc. Wouldn't the IV civ. have borrowed cuneiform > writing if they had none of their own? It's hard for me to imagine > that their traders came into contact with something so useful as a > developed writing system and didn't either imitate it or borrow it. > George Hart The standard assumption is that writing normally spreads "quite readily and inevitably." But historically, interestingly enough, that doesn't turn out to be the case. I'll leave aside the issue of how appropriate or not cuneiform would have been in encoding the unknown languages of the Indus -- which we'd certainly have to assume based on comparative evidence were multiple, as we've long argued -- since we know absolutely nothing about those languages. (The old assumptions from the 30s and 40s that Asko picked up in the 1960s that they were Dravidian have been pretty much debunked by now, I think -- but that's another issue. See here now even Frank Southworth, _Linguistic Archaeology of South Asia_, who bravely changed his book in the proofing stage, having (reluctantly!) been convinced by our arguments in our 2004 paper.) Before turning to the Indus examples, just think of premodern Mesoamerica, where we we find a complex mixture of both literate and non-literate urban civilizations existing side-by-side. Thus the Maya of course among other Mesoamerican peoples had a fully functioning script, but the Aztecs and Mixtecs didn't (they did of course have very long mnemonic prompt texts with extremely limited phoneticism, but not writing as linguists think of it, pace Parpola 1994: 54). Nor did the Incas have anything you can call a script in the strict linguistic sense, unless you believe (rather eccentric and unverified) claims that the quipu system functioned as a kind of writing system, loosely defined. The same mixture of literate and non-literate urban civilizations -- as is much less well-known -- also shows up in the Ancient Near East. Not long after a Harvard Roundtable talk I gave on the nonlinguistic status of Indus symbols in 2002, Carl Lamberg-Karlovsky published a paper ("To Write or Not to Write." In Timothy Potts, Michael Roaf, and Diana Stein, eds. _Culture through Objects_, Cambridge, 2003, pp. 59-72) that discussed the wonderfully wild mix of literate, half- literate, and totally non-literate urban civilizations of the Ancient Middle East. (His discussion overlaps with Indus times, but he avoided the whole issue of the Indus in the paper, which Michael Witzel and I at the time thought was interesting.) Michael and I by this time had already taken this view much further, discussing in a variety of conference talks and papers a vast "No Text Zone" that encompassed virtually everything East of Elam through Central Asia and India and the Persian Gulf as well from the early 3rd millennium BCE until well into the first millennium BCE. It should be noted that we were forced at the same time, in conjunction with Richard Sproat, the proto-Elamite expert Jakob Dahl, and others, to debunk a lot claims coming out after 2003 -- now widely known as spurious and based on faked evidence, as I first argued -- about writing at the then much-hyped Jiroft digs. In 2009 Dan Potts, at our Kyoto Indus conference, and in private emails as well confirmed his belief too in the total non-linguistic nature of the urban civilizations in these regions, including the Persian Gulf, where of course we have found seals with some Indus features. Dan, who is indisputably the world's expert on Persian Gulf archaeology, among much else, certainly does not agree with Asko that this is a sign of literacy in the region. Dan takes it as "obvious," as he told me in Kyoto, that the Indus system was nonliterate. So pace Greg Possehl (who is often quoted on this) and many others, you certainly *don't* need literacy in large urban civilizations. That is an historical myth that is easy to falsify empirically. The question remains, of course -- as George Hart points out -- as to why some of these non-literate urban civilizations failed to pick up on writing before the Persians spread literacy into India and Central Asia after ca. 500 BCE. (The effects of that spread are part of what Michael and I have dubbed the "Gandharan thesis," which gives us powerful new ways to date Vedic texts; we plan as well to expand on this elsewhere; so far the thesis is discussed only online (in some depth, however) and in footnotes in some of our papers.) Many possible reasons exist for rejecting literacy, but one of the most obvious in the case of India -- compare with anti-literate attitudes we know existed widely in Vedic traditions in the second half of the first millennium BCE, and indeed beyond -- has to do with the destructive power of literacy in respect to existing magical- religious and social-political institutions. (Cf. the same situation in relation to Celtic religious traditions: the Celts used Greek frequently for economic purposes, but like the Vedic peoples eschewed its use in encoding their religious and literate traditions. Cf. too the highly negative comments about writing by the author or authors of the Phaedrus, in the Platonic corpus.) There may be other reasons involved, including possibly the multilinguistic nature of the Indus peoples -- the Mixtecs and Aztecs too, who lacked full phonetic writing systems, were highly multilinguistic societies, making mnemonic systems in this case more useful than phonetic ones -- but at present this is just a guess. Many peoples have preferred oral traditions to literate ones, and often for similar reasons, even when in contact with fully literate societies. What *is* clear, for whatever reason, is that ancient urban civilizations often never adopted literacy even when they knew of it. This is apparently true of the vast "No Text" zone we find after proto- Elamite times (proto-Elamite disappeared early in the third millennium BCE, long before Indus political-religious symbols appeared on the scene) in the urban civilizations of the Southeast Iranian plateau, among the BMAC and other semi-urban peoples of Central Asia, in the Persian semi-urban centers, and in the Indus civilization. And that condition apparently *lasted* until Persian times, when use of Aramaic as an administrative language was spread all the way from Egypt to northern India and Central Asia. The "No Text Zone" idea, which Michael first suggested after one of my talks at Harvard in 2001, is a very exciting one. We discussed it briefly in our 2004 paper, in Kyoto in 2005 and 2009, and will do so at length at some point if we ever get around to finishing our _Indus Valley Fantasies_ book. I also include discussion of it in a book in progress on wider cross-cultural philological issues and topics in cultural neurobiology. For a little on that, see the abstract of our Harvard talk from last October, here (pretty compressed, but it tries to pack a lot in): http://www.safarmer.com/IndusValleyFantasies.pdf Unlike Asko, I'm happy to discuss these issues just about anywhere -- I think it is counterproductive to cut off debate of anything scientific -- but I am really caught up in other research issues now involving the Cultural Modeling Research Group, which (as noted in the abstract) includes neurobiological and computational as well as philological dimensions. So many specialists in scripts and ancient archaeology, etc., by now have quietly accepted our views -- to proclaim them publicly the way we have inevitably invokes violent attacks from the Hindu right, so people for obvious reasons prefer to keep their opinions to themselves -- that we assume that eventually everyone will be saying that "all Farmer, Sproat, and Witzel have done is point out the obvious." Well, it's true -- although it took over 140 years to notice the obvious. :^) See an amusing little paper from 2003 that I never bothered to publish that discusses the so-called script thesis back to its very odd origins in the late 19th century; and forgery even then! http://www.safarmer.com/firstforgery.pdf Rushed again, and no time to proofread this, unfortunately.... Steve From Loriliai.Biernacki at COLORADO.EDU Thu Jul 14 22:59:38 2011 From: Loriliai.Biernacki at COLORADO.EDU (Loriliai Biernacki) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 11 16:59:38 -0600 Subject: FW: search for Hindi (and Urdu) instructor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093172.23782.14197499074986393905.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1949 Lines: 45 Dear folks, Below is an ad for a Hindi instructor. Please pass this on to anyone you think might be interested. Thanks, All best, Loriliai Biernacki Associate Professor, Religious Studies Associate Chair and Director of Graduate Studies University of Colorado at Boulder UCB 292 Boulder, CO 80309 303-735-4730 Loriliai.Biernacki at colorado.edu http://www.colorado.edu/ReligiousStudies/faculty/loriliai.biernacki.html The Department of Asian Languages and Civilizations at the University of Colorado Boulder invites applications for a non-tenure-track appointment as Instructor in Hindi language to begin August 2012. Requirements include at least the MA in Hindi applied linguistics, language pedagogy, or other related discipline; ability to teach all levels of Hindi language; and experience teaching Hindi at the university level. Ability to teach/knowledge of basic Urdu preferred. Teaching load is three courses per semester. To apply, applicants must submit a letter of application, a current CV, copies of syllabi of courses taught or proposed, and three letters of recommendation. Applications are accepted electronically at https://www.jobsatcu.com, posting 814257. Review of applications will begin on November 15, 2011. Applications will be accepted until the position is filled. The University of Colorado is an Equal Opportunity Employer committed to building a diverse workforce. We encourage applications from women, racial and ethnic minorities, individuals with disabilities and veterans. Alternative formats of this ad can be provided upon request for individuals with disabilities by contacting the ADA Coordinator at (303) 492-1334. See www.Colorado.edu/ArtsSciences/Jobs/ for full job description. - -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI Thu Jul 14 14:50:25 2011 From: asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI (Asko Parpola) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 11 17:50:25 +0300 Subject: The Indus script as proto-writing In-Reply-To: <0B5761F3-185E-4D61-BA2F-8CDC26A98A0E@BERKELEY.EDU> Message-ID: <161227093150.23782.549465419358973187.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7465 Lines: 134 Quoting "George Hart" : > The following reply from Steve Farmer lays out his position in a > short and lucid way. I am posting it with his permission, as I > think others will be interested. I don't want this forum to become > a locus of IV speculation, as there is no end to that, but I do > believe it's worth summarizing some of the current thinking. > Perhaps someone on the other side ("It is writing") could post a > similarly clear and abridged statement of their position. George Hart > I take up George Hart's challenge with the following reply: The Indus script as proto-writing Asko Parpola It is widely agreed that the Archaic Sumerian script or "Proto-Cuneiform" is the world's oldest writing system, used in the Late Uruk Period (Uruk strata IV and III, c. 3400-3000 BCE). It was used as an administrative tool to record on clay tablets such matters as grain distribution, land, animal and personnel management, and the processing of fruits and cereals. "The script can be 'understood' in some sense, but it cannot be fully read; although there has been some doubt concerning the language that was the basis for this written expression, there is clear evidence that it was Sumerian" (Michalowski 1996: 33). Archaic Sumerian was logosyllabic writing because its signs stood for elements of a spoken language, words and morphemes, with initially rare phonetization. It was not from the beginning able to record everything: it took many centuries of ever increasing phonetization for this "nuclear writing" to develop into a "full writing" where all grammatical elements were written. Yet it is considered "true writing", because it was a language-based system of visual aigns. The Egyptian Hieroglyphic writing was certainly used in Pre-Dynastic times. The royal tomb U-j at Umm el-Qa'ab near Abydos in Upper Egypt, dated to c 3200 BCE, contained 150 inscribed bone tags originally attached to grave goods recording the places of origin of these goods, as well as pottery inscriptions and sealings. These were excavated in 1988 and published ten years later (Dreyer 1998). This earliest form of Egyptian script was already a well-formed logophonic writing system, which can be partially understood on the basis of later Egyptian writing. "By the early 1st Dynasty, almost all the uniconsonantal signs are attested, as well as the use of classifiers or determinatives, so that the writing system was in essence fully formed even though a very limited range of material was written." (Baines 1999: 882). "Many inscribed artifacts are preserved from the first two Dynasties, the most numerous categories being cylinder seals and sealings, cursive annotations on pottery, and tags originally attached to tomb equipment, especially of the 1st Dynasty kings. Continuous language was still not recorded" (Baines 1999: 883). Thus until the beginning of the Old Kingdom starting with the 3rd Dynasty in 2686 BCE ? for about 600 years equalling the duration of the Indus Civilization ? the Egyptians used a language-based, phoneticized writing system, but did not write full sentences, only very short texts fully comparable to the surviving texts in the Indus script. Early administrative documents are assumed to have existed but have not survived (cf. Baines 1999: 884). When defining the Indus script as logosyllabic, I noted several constraints to be observed in its analysis: "the linguistic elements that are expected to correspond to the signs are morphemes rather than phonemes. Secondly, all of the morphemes pronounced in the spoken Indus language may not, and are not even likely to, have a counterpart in its written form. In the third place, all preserved Indus inscriptions are very short, appearing on objects like seals, which are not so likely to contain even normal sentences, with such basic constituents as a verbal predicate or an object, let alone complex sentences." (Parpola 1994: 89). This was before Damerow (1999) suggested the term 'proto-writing' for the earliest, linguistically incomplete notations (cf. Houston ed. 2004: 11); on these earliest writing systems see especially Houston ed. 2004. In my opinion Farmer, Sproat and Witzel (2004: 19 and 33) err when they suggest that "the Indus system cannot be categorized as 'script' ... capable of systematically encoding speech", and that it "cannot even be comfortably labeled as a 'proto-script', but apparently belonged to a different class of symbols." Their principal arguments, the shortness of Indus texts, their restriction to only a few text types, and the long duration (c 600 years) of this stage of script evolution, are effectively annulled by what is said above about the early Sumerian and Egyptian scripts. For their other arguments I refer to an earlier paper of mine (Parpola 2008). George Hart wrote yesterday (13 July 2011): "None of this proves or disproves that the fish symbol might have been pronounced [in Dravidian] m??. Steve Farmer wrote in reply (13 July 2011): Probably one of the silliest claims ever made about the symbols, with no evidence whatsoever to back it. My reply: there is actually a lot of evidence to back it (see Parpola 1994: 179-272; and new evidence in Parpola 2009). Due to a complete lack of bilinguals, it is very difficult to verify sign interpretations, but not altogether impossible. Perhaps the most important test stone is supplied by the nominal compounds actually existing in languages that are historically likely to be related to the Harappan language: these can be compared to Harappan sign sequences that can be pictorially interpreted and perhaps deciphered with the help of linguistically acceptable homophonies (used in all early scripts for phonetication: the rebus puns). The accumulation of iconically acceptable, systematic and interconnected interpretations can eliminate chance coincidences in a process comparable to filling cross-word puzzles. References: Baines, John, 1999. Writing: invention and early development. Pp. 882-885 in: Kathryn A. Bard (ed.), Encyclopedia of the archaeology of ancient Egypt. London and New York: Routledge. Dreyer, G?nter, 1998. Umm el-Qaab I: Das pr?dynastische K?nigsgrab U-j und seine fr?hen Schriftzeugnisse. (Arch?ologische Ver?ffentlichungen 86.) Mainz: Verlag Philipp von Zabern. Farmer, Steve, Richard Sproat and Michael Witzel, 2004. The collapse of the Indus-scrpt thesis: The myth of a literate Harappan civilization: Electronic Journal of Vedic Studies 11 (2): 19-57. Houston, Stephen (ed.), 2004. The first writing: Script invention as history and process. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. Michalowski, Piotr, 1996. Mesopotamian cuneiform: Origins. Pp. 33-36 in: Peter T. Danies & William Bright (eds.), The world's writing systems. New York: Oxford University Press. Parpola, Asko, 1994. Deciphering the Indus script. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. Parpola, Asko, 2008. Is the Indus script indeed not a writing system? Pp. 111-131 in: Airavati: Felicitation volume in honour of Iravatham Mahadevan, Chennai: Varalaaru.com. Downloadable from www.harappa.com Parpola, Asko, 2009. 'Hind leg' + 'fish': Towards further understanding of the Indus script. Scripta 1: 37-76. (Downloadable at www.harappa.com) From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Jul 14 16:08:27 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 11 18:08:27 +0200 Subject: Dan Ingalls lecturing, 1980 Message-ID: <161227093153.23782.9068328399955547466.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 699 Lines: 18 http://vimeo.com/4714623 A talk given by Dan Ingalls and his father at Xerox PARC in 1980. It describes a project to determine authorship of various sections of the great Indian epic, the Mahabharata. Dan Sr introduces the Sanskrit language and talks about the traits of oral and written authorship. Dan Jr talks about how he analyzed the text for such traits, and wrote a program to read the original text by recognizing the characters of Devanagari text. The above link was kindly sent to me by Timothy Lighthiser. DW -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Thu Jul 14 23:27:09 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 11 19:27:09 -0400 Subject: Dan Ingalls lecturing, 1980 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093176.23782.1359773139431882881.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 773 Lines: 23 Thanks Dominik and Tim for that! A great pleasure to see and hear Ingalls talking about the Mahabharata, etc., some 30 years ago! George On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > http://vimeo.com/4714623 > > A talk given by Dan Ingalls and his father at Xerox PARC in 1980. It > describes a project to determine authorship of various sections of the great > Indian epic, the Mahabharata. Dan Sr introduces the Sanskrit language and > talks about the traits of oral and written authorship. Dan Jr talks about > how he analyzed the text for such traits, and wrote a program to read the > original text by recognizing the characters of Devanagari text. > > The above link was kindly sent to me by Timothy Lighthiser. > > DW > From asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI Thu Jul 14 18:24:50 2011 From: asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI (Asko Parpola) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 11 21:24:50 +0300 Subject: The Indus script as proto-writing In-Reply-To: <8ACFDEF3-8A91-4891-91D3-8D7E4AE22F8E@safarmer.com> Message-ID: <161227093165.23782.9796988195321884944.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1325 Lines: 29 Quoting "Steve Farmer" : > Asko below (and elsewhere) has tried to counter this argument by > anachronistically citing Archaic Sumerian as a parallel example. > That is a very strange claim: it seems quite odd to us to draw > parallels between uniformly short Indus symbol strings from ca. 1900 > BCE -- a very high literate period throughout the Middle East -- > with "proto-writing" from the Sumerians as much as 1500 years earler! When the Indus script was created - according to the new evidence from Harappa around 2600 BCE - the Sumerian script had become more phoneticized but was still at the "nuclear writing" stage: I have illustrated this by citing a recurrent phrase in its Early Dynastic version from Fara (c 2500 BCE) and its later 'classical' Sumerian version (see Parpola 1994: 34, after Miguel Civil and R. D. Biggs, Notes sur des textes sum?riens arch?ques, Revue d'Assyriologie 60, 1966: 12f.). Apparently the Indus script functioned sufficiently well for the Harappan needs so that they found no reason for any major modification. My participation in this debate ends here as far as the present discussion is concerned. Thank you for the opportunity to present my present view on the nature of the Indus script. With best regards, Asko Parpola From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Jul 15 07:43:04 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 11 09:43:04 +0200 Subject: Advertisement for two 3-year Sanskrit RA posts at Cambridge Message-ID: <161227093178.23782.10973747368202352550.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 236 Lines: 6 http://www.ames.cam.ac.uk/general_info/jobs/sanskrit-ra.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Fri Jul 15 16:31:18 2011 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 11 18:31:18 +0200 Subject: Perfect of the root VYAI/VII ( (VYE: "vye=?iso-8859-15?Q?=F1?= sa.mvara.ne" Dhaatupaa.tha) Message-ID: <161227093181.23782.4800423860567354560.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2148 Lines: 56 Dear Colleagues, I hesitate about the forms of the perfect of the root VYAI/VII (VYE MW: "vye? sa.mvara.ne" Dhaatupaa.tha). As Whitney ?801c (p. 290, Harvard University Press repr. 1950, in digital form at: http://sanskrit1.ccv.brown.edu/Sanskrit/Funderburk/wgramscan/dispa/index.php) states: "the grammairians require the strong forms to be made from VYAY, and the weak from VII", whereas the forms vivyathus and vivye "and no others have been met with in use" (so. the 3d/1st sg. vivyaaya, from P. 6.1.46, and 2nd sg. vivyayitha, from P. 7.2.66, found in B?htlingk&Roth's Dict. and Whitney's Roots s.v.; cf. the 3d pl. vivyu.h (Maagha) versus vivyayu.h (Bha.t.t.i) discussed in Durgha.taV. 6.1.108, and the 3d pl. vivyu.h and 3d dual vivyatuh explained ibid. 8.2.78). The useful tool created by Gerard Huet, called "The Sanskrit Grammarian" (http://sanskrit.inria.fr/DICO/grammar.html - conjugation), generates the following forms http://sanskrit.inria.fr/cgi-bin/SKT/sktconjug?t=VH&q=vyaa&c=1&font=roma : Active: sg. vivyaaya, vivyayitha, vivyaaya dual viviva, vivyathu.h, vivyatu.h plural vivima, vivya, vivyu.h Middle: sg. vivye, vivii.se, vivye dual viviivahe, vivyaathe, vivyaate plural viviimahe, viviidhve, viviire But I wonder if it is not possible to rather have in the 1st dual and plural A: vivyiva and vivyima, following the forms ninyiva and ninyima of NII, and samely in the Middle Voice, // NII, the 2nd sg vivyi.se, 1st dual and plural vivyivahe vivyimahe, and 2nd-3d pl. vivyire. Thank you for your grammatical comments, also on the 'alternative' forms A. 1st sg. viviya and 2nd sg. viviktha that I found in Hanxleden's grammar given as such. Christophe Vielle -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ http://www.uclouvain.be/356389.html -- Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of storage free. http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jemhouben at GMAIL.COM Sun Jul 17 15:31:54 2011 From: jemhouben at GMAIL.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 11 17:31:54 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Perso-Indica Visiting Fellowships at the Sorbonne Nouvelle In-Reply-To: <1310893251.69058.YahooMailRC@web130121.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227093188.23782.10776370549655723262.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3753 Lines: 120 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Fabrizio Speziale Date: 2011/7/17 Subject: Perso-Indica Visiting Fellowships at the Sorbonne Nouvelle To: ** *Perso-Indica Visiting Fellowships at the Sorbonne Nouvelle* The Perso-Indica Visiting Fellowships are offered at the Institut d?Etudes Iraniennes (IEI) of the Sorbonne Nouvelle University with the support of the research group ?Mondes iranien et indien? (UMR 7528) and the Fondation Colette Caillat of the Institut de France. The positions are open to outstanding senior and promising younger scholars from any country working on a research topic which can constitute an original and important contribution to the Perso-Indica project. Perso-Indica is a long term project, the purpose of which is to set up a comprehensive Critical Survey of Persian Works on Indian Learned Traditions, encompassing the treatises and translations produced between the 13th and the 19th century (for further details see: http://www.perso-indica.net/). *Perso-Indica* is based in Paris (Sorbonne Nouvelle-UMR 7528) and was launched in 2010 thanks to the financial support of the Institut Fran?ais de Recherche en Iran (Tehran) and the Iran Heritage Foundation (London). In addition, from 2011 onwards, it is supported by the research funds of the programme ?CNRS - Higher Education Chairs?, Iranian studies chair at the Sorbonne Nouvelle ? UMR 7528 ?Mondes iranien et indien? . * * Each Visiting Fellowship is for a period of 1 month. Two Fellowships are available during the academic year 2011-2012. The fellowships do not offer a salary but they offer accommodation and a substantial contribution to travel and living expenses. - The Visiting Fellow will be accommodated in the apartment of the Fondation Colette Caillat. The apartment is located at S?vres in the R?sidence du Parc Eiffel. - Contribution to travel expenses: up to ? 300 for scholars travelling from Europe; up to ? 700 for scholars travelling from USA and Asia. - Contribution to living expenses in Paris. The Visiting Fellow will receive a contribution for meals at the rates applied by French institutions, i.e. ? 915 for thirty days. - Fellows will be offered an office space at the IEI located in central Paris in the building of the Sorbonne Nouvelle. One fellowship should be held in February or March 2012, starting 1stFebruary or 1 st March. The second fellowship should be held between May and June and allow the fellow to take part to the Perso-Indica conference held in early June in Paris. Complete applications should be submitted by 30 September 2011. The Call for applications and the Application form can be downloaded from http://www.univ-paris3.fr/etudes-iraniennes. We would be grateful if you could post the announcement at your institution and circulate it, also via email, among colleagues and scholars who you think would be qualified and interested in applying for the fellowships. Kind regards, Fabrizio Speziale Contact: Fabrizio Speziale Iranian studies chair D?partement d??tudes arabes, h?bra?ques, indiennes et iraniennes (EAHII) Universit? Sorbonne Nouvelle 13, rue Santeuil, 75231 Paris, Cedex 05. Email: fabrizio.speziale at univ-paris3.fr Website: http://www.univ-paris3.fr/etudes-iraniennes. * * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1.Callforapplications.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 501901 bytes Desc: not available URL: From julia.hegewald at UNI-BONN.DE Tue Jul 19 11:02:38 2011 From: julia.hegewald at UNI-BONN.DE (Julia Hegewald) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 11 13:02:38 +0200 Subject: Conference on Asian Art at the University of Bonn, October 2011 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093193.23782.2043498413643207476.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7681 Lines: 207 Dear Colleagues and Friends, I would like to inform you about an international conference, entitled In the Shadow of the Golden Age: Art and Identity in Asia from Gandhara to the Modern Age which my DFG-funded research team and my department are organising at The University of Bonn from 13. - 15. October 2011. Please find the provisional programme and a short conference description below. Further information can be found on our webpage: www.aik.uni-bonn.de For further information, please contact myself or Navina Sarma (navina at uni-bonn.de). I will be circulating the final version of the programme in late September. Looking forward to seeing you in Bonn. Julia Hegewald Professor of Oriental Art History University of Bonn Provisional Programme Please note that this programme is still provisional and that changes in the sequence of papers and in the timings may be made over the next few months. The final programme will be available shortly before the start of the conference. Thursday 13th October 2011 16:00-17:00 Registration and tea 17:00-18:30 Keynote address: Partha Mitter The Keynote Paper: the Role of History and Memory in Modernity 19:00 Conference dinner for participants Friday 14th October 2011: 09:30-10:30 Registration 10:30-11:30 Susan L. Huntington Buddhist Art Through a Modern Lens: A Case of a Mistaken Scholarly Trajectory John C. Huntington Bactro-Gandharan Art Beyond its Homeland 11:30-12:00 Coffee 12:00-13:00 Ciro Lo Mucio The Legacy of Gandhara in Central Asian Painting Petra R?sch Illusionary Narratives: The Deconstruction of the Tang Dynasty as the ?Golden Age? of Chan Buddhism in China. 13:00-14:30 Lunch 14:30-15:30 William A. Southworth Iconoclasm and Temple Transformation at Angkor from the 13th to 15th Centuries Tiziana Lorenzetti Political and Social Dimension as Reflected in the Medieval Sculptures of South India: Confrontations, antagonism and identity 15:30-16:00 Tea 16:00-17:00 Mallica Kumbera Landrus Trans-Cultural Temples: Identity and Practice in Goa Sarah Shaw Art and Narrative in Changing Conditions: Southern Buddhist temple art as an accommodation of the new and diverse 17:00-17:30 Drinks 17:30 - 18:30 Professorial Inaugural Lecture: Julia A. B. Hegewald Golden Age or Kali-Yuga?: The Changing Fortunes of Jaina Art and Identity in Karnataka 19:00 Conference dinner for participants Saturday 15th October 2011: 09:30-10:30 Jennifer Howes Indian Company Painting: 1780 to 1820 Eva-Maria Troelenberg The ?Golden Age? and the Secession: Approaches to Alterity in early 20th Century World Art 10:30-11:00 Coffee 11:00-12:30 Parul Dave Muckerji Who is afraid of Utopia? Contemporary Indian Artists and Their Retakes on ?Golden? age Nalini Balbir Old Texts, New Images: Illustrating the ?vet?mbara Jain ?gamas today Christoph Emmrich Loss, Damage, Repair and Prevention in the Historiography of Newar Religious Artefacts 12:30-14:00 Lunch 14:00-15:15 Regina H?fer ?Buddha at hotmail? - Contemporary Tibetan Art goes Global Daniel Redlinger (IOA, The University of Bonn) Building for the brothers? Indo-Islamic architectural citations in the recent architecture of South Arabia Concluding session 15:15-15:45 Tea 15:45-18:00 Coach to Cologne and visit to Rautenstrauch-Joest Museum Conference Abstract: In the Shadow of the Golden Age: Art and Identity in Asia from Gandhara to the Modern Age This international conference brings together specialists in the visual arts and humanities working on material from a wide range of periods and regions throughout Asia, the Islamic world and the Western diaspora. Instead of concentrating on the so-called ?high points? and ?golden ages? of art, which have so far stood generally at the centre of art-historical enquiries, this symposium focuses on visual expressions of confrontation with the ?other,? struggle or isolation during times of change. These challenging but artistically fertile periods were marked by intense efforts by communities in search for new identities. Through their art and frequently through the re-use of old symbols in new settings they succeeded in redefining themselves so as to strengthen their religious, cultural or political position. In the history of art, these less investigated phases raise issues, which hold the promise of new significant contributions to the subject. What happened to Gandharan art after its main phase of flowering came to an end in its traditional heartland? How does Hindu temple architecture react to a majority Christian cultural environment in Goa? In which ways do new rulers and religions, e.g. in medieval South India and at Angkor, relate to the sacred places and icons of previous cultures and religious groups and how do the disposed and dispossessed deal with their loss and react to the new? The confrontation with the ?other? has been particularly pronounced during periods of colonisation throughout Asia. How did British colonial officials and Indian artists commissioned by them represent the different facets of the empire, how was world art exhibited and interpreted in the West and how were (and are?) categories such as ?masterpiece? or ?golden age? employed to classify and judge art? A further particularly fertile area of enquiry is the modern age in which many traditions (religious, regal or social) appear to be threatened by globalisation and changes in value. The diverse examples of modern day artistic expressions taken from Arabia, India, Nepal and Thailand to be presented during this conference, however, suggest impressive acts of survival and creative adaptation, which enable continuity and the endurance of forms, meanings and practices under new disguises. -- Prof. Dr. Julia A. B. Hegewald Professor of Oriental Art History Head of Department Universit?t Bonn Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften (IOA) Abteilung f?r Asiatische und Islamische Kunstgeschichte Adenauerallee 10 D ? 53113 Bonn Germany Email: julia.hegewald at uni-bonn.de Tel. 0049-228-73 7213 Fax. 0049-228-73 4042 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hellwig7 at GMX.DE Tue Jul 19 14:58:12 2011 From: hellwig7 at GMX.DE (Oliver Hellwig) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 11 15:58:12 +0100 Subject: Citations in the Sanskrit corpus (II) Message-ID: <161227093197.23782.3606123487421425725.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 495 Lines: 23 Dear list, as an addition to the last update of the DCS, I uploaded a tutorial that describes how groups of strongly citing texts can be detected in the Sanskrit corpus using methods from Digital Humanities. Details and data are accessible at http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/index.php? contents=tech_cit_001 Best, Oliver Hellwig ------------------- PD Dr. Oliver Hellwig South-Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg Im Neuenheimer Feld 330 69120 Heidelberg Germany From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Jul 19 18:27:07 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 11 20:27:07 +0200 Subject: Conference: "Philology in the digital age" Message-ID: <161227093200.23782.8946893487988245090.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 239 Lines: 8 http://www.zde.uni-wuerzburg.de/no_cache/tei_mm_2011/about/ DW -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Jul 20 08:01:28 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 11 10:01:28 +0200 Subject: new etexts at SARIT Message-ID: <161227093203.23782.2632794011536450838.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1126 Lines: 33 I'm pleased to announce some additions to the SARIT repository of Indic e-text editions. The new editions are of: - Carakasa?hit? - A????gasa?graha - Ratnak?rtinibandh?vali A full list of available texts is given here (or just go to http://sarit.indology.info and press "search" without entering anything). As with all the texts in SARIT, the above works can be searched with strategies from simple word-searches to complex multi-criterion searches. KWIC indexes can be generated automatically. And all works can be downloaded or read online in HTML, PDF or XML (TEI) format. All texts have also been installed in a Github repository as previously announced. This is an experimental service for intelligently managing updates and changes to these e-texts as they evolve in time through enrichment and correction. With many thanks to Patrick Mc Allister for technical support, Best, Dominik Wujastyk SARIT -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From heike.moser at UNI-TUEBINGEN.DE Wed Jul 20 08:17:44 2011 From: heike.moser at UNI-TUEBINGEN.DE (Heike Moser) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 11 10:17:44 +0200 Subject: Kav=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=AD_im_=E1=B9=9Agveda?= Message-ID: <161227093205.23782.1482724421995420210.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1136 Lines: 38 Publication announcement: K?hler, Frank: Kav? im ?gveda. Dichtung, Ritual und Sch?pfung im fr?hvedischen Denken Aachen: Shaker 2011 ISBN: 978-3-8440-0121-1 Language: German 388 pages Kav?- ranks among the central concepts in the world view of the early Vedic poets. This study offers an analysis of this term in the ?gveda. All references of kav?- have been translated and interpreted in order to obtain a consistent understanding of its meaning. For further information please see the following link: http://www.shaker.de/de/content/catalogue/index.asp?lang=de&ID=8&ISBN=978-3 -8440-0121-1&search=yes ------------------- Dr. Heike Moser Scientific Coordinator (AOI) & Assistant Professor (Indology) Eberhard Karls Universit?t Tuebingen Institute of Asian and Oriental Studies (AOI) Dept. of Indology and Comparative Religion Gartenstr. 19 ? 72074 Tuebingen ? Germany Phone +49 7071 29-74005 ? Mobile +49 176 20030066 ? Fax +49 7071 29-2675 heike.moser at uni-tuebingen.de http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/fakultaeten/philosophische-fakultaet/fachbereic he/aoi/indologie-vgl-religionswissenschaft/mitarbeiter/heike-moser.html From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM Wed Jul 20 18:00:11 2011 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 11 19:00:11 +0100 Subject: Article sought Message-ID: <161227093208.23782.12403838935508221368.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 259 Lines: 15 Dear Colleagues, Does any person have a copy they would kindly share with me of: W.G. Bolle?: "Adda or the Oldest Extant Dispute between Jains and Heretics" PART 02 Journal of Indian Philosophy 27 (1999) 411-437 Many thanks in advance, Stephen Hodge From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Wed Jul 20 20:35:15 2011 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 11 22:35:15 +0200 Subject: probably no comment is the best comment Message-ID: <161227093210.23782.4235848515909977278.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 409 Lines: 15 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14218503 -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM Wed Jul 20 22:07:16 2011 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 11 23:07:16 +0100 Subject: Article sought Message-ID: <161227093214.23782.8501618384338805211.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 600 Lines: 31 OK, many thanks to everybody who sent me a copy ~ I've neough now to paper the wall with ! Best wishes, Stephen Hodge ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Hodge" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 7:00 PM Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article sought > Dear Colleagues, > > Does any person have a copy they would kindly share with me of: > > W.G. Bolle?: "Adda or the Oldest Extant Dispute between Jains and > Heretics" PART 02 > > Journal of Indian Philosophy 27 (1999) 411-437 > > Many thanks in advance, > > Stephen Hodge From jkirk at SPRO.NET Sat Jul 23 19:29:06 2011 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 11 13:29:06 -0600 Subject: Query In-Reply-To: <898520333d47b59bef31db2ac0ed660f@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <161227093220.23782.17097740822766171468.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 464 Lines: 20 Please post any replies to list. Thanks, Joanna Kirkpatrick -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [INDOLOGY] Query Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 13:57:34 -0500 From: Patrick Olivelle To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Could the pa??itasabh? enlighten me on Sa?kar?a?a and his possible association with tribals, robbers, and liquor? He is mentioned within this kind of context in the Artha??stra, 13.3.54. Thanks. Patrick Olivelle From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Sat Jul 23 18:57:34 2011 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 11 13:57:34 -0500 Subject: Query Message-ID: <161227093217.23782.195304285472816473.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 216 Lines: 6 Could the pa??itasabh? enlighten me on Sa?kar?a?a and his possible association with tribals, robbers, and liquor? He is mentioned within this kind of context in the Artha??stra, 13.3.54. Thanks. Patrick Olivelle From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Sun Jul 24 12:36:21 2011 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 11 07:36:21 -0500 Subject: article search In-Reply-To: <87DAA1AE-13CB-4100-99B9-24276C180F52@safarmer.com> Message-ID: <161227093228.23782.7518832828427138054.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 562 Lines: 24 Dear friends, I would be grateful to receive pdf-s of the following, if available: Jacque May, La philosophie bouddhique idealiste, Asiatische Studien 25 (1971): 265-323. [It is available on SEALS, but, so far as I can see, can only be downloaded page by page.] Lambert Schmithausen, The Ch'eng wei shih lun on the existence of the external world. IIBS. with thanks in advance, Matthew Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Sun Jul 24 13:09:51 2011 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 11 08:09:51 -0500 Subject: thank you Message-ID: <161227093231.23782.11414032877294898579.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 494 Lines: 16 I am deeply grateful to Isabelle Ratie, Andrey Klebanov, and Harunaga Isaacson, who all responded to my request for the articles by May and Schmithausen almost instantaneously. There is no need for further assistance with this particular search, but thanks, too, to all those who may have been thinking to respond as well. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI Sun Jul 24 07:52:47 2011 From: asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI (Asko Parpola) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 11 10:52:47 +0300 Subject: Samkarsana's connection with liquor Message-ID: <161227093223.23782.10144630724879260519.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1915 Lines: 56 On Sa?kar?a?a and his connection with liquor see pp. 365-6 and 369 in: Parpola, Asko, 2002. Panda?? and S?t?: On the historical background of the Sanskrit epics. Journal of the American Oriental Society 122 (2): 361-373. In the above paper, I am arguing that Sa?kar?a?a/Balar?ma partly goes back to one of the A?vins/N?satyas; his original Indo-Iranian drink was honey-beer, see pp. 39-41 in: Parpola, Asko, 2005. The N?satyas, the chariot and Proto-Aryan religion. Journal of Indological Studies 16 & 17 (2004-2005): 1-63. Kyoto. In a publication that is just coming out, I am discussing at length B?larama/Sa?kar?a?a as the divine drinker of palm wine, who in this role has replaced the wild ass (as recorded in the Dhenukavadha myth of Hariva??a 57), the thirsty wild ass as the drinker par excellence, his connection with the wine palm, with the mare-headed demon who drinks so much ocean water as to cause the ebb of tide, and his Harappan-Dravidian background: Parpola, Asko, and Juha Janhunen, 2011. On the Asiatic wild asses (Equus hemionus & Equus kiang) and their vernacular names: New revised version. Pp. 59-124 in: Toshiki Osada and Hiroshi Endo (eds.), Linguistics, archaeology and the human past: Occasional paper 12. Kyoto: Indus Project, Research Institute for Humanity and Nature. With best regards, Asko Parpola Quoting JKirkpatrick : > > Please post any replies to list. > > Thanks, > Joanna Kirkpatrick > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Query > Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 13:57:34 -0500 > From: Patrick Olivelle > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Could the pa??itasabh? enlighten me on Sa?kar?a?a and his possible > association with tribals, robbers, and liquor? He is mentioned > within this kind of context in the Artha??stra, 13.3.54. Thanks. > > Patrick Olivelle > > From asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI Sun Jul 24 08:18:41 2011 From: asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI (Asko Parpola) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 11 11:18:41 +0300 Subject: correction In-Reply-To: <20110724105247.938411x6m4hvjwpb.aparpola@webmail.helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <161227093226.23782.4941596684560573415.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 424 Lines: 13 Sorry, the other editor is Hitoshi Endo and not Hiroshi Endo: > > Parpola, Asko, and Juha Janhunen, 2011. On the Asiatic wild asses > (Equus hemionus & Equus kiang) and their vernacular names: New > revised version. Pp. 59-124 in: Toshiki Osada and Hiroshi Endo > (eds.), Linguistics, archaeology and the human past: Occasional > paper 12. Kyoto: Indus Project, Research Institute for Humanity and > Nature. > From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Sun Jul 24 16:13:53 2011 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 11 12:13:53 -0400 Subject: Asoka's statues Message-ID: <161227093234.23782.12203008582485330957.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1568 Lines: 47 Dear All, over the past few months I asked some colleagues involved with early Indian sculpture whether they could show me a good pdf of the Asoka statue at Kaganhalli, Sannati, Gulbarga, Karnataka. I have a low resolution one but look for a better one. This sculpture clearly identifies the king in question as Raya Asoka (in fairly early post-Asokan Brahmi script, from the Satavahana period). SEE: also See also the faint cover of Puratattva/Indian Archaeology in 1998/9 (I think) ---------------- Also, some 10 years ago, the BBC broadcast that another statue of Asoka had been found in Orissa -- but we have not heard anything additional about it so far. Another Orissa stunt (like finding the real Lumbini in Orissa)? Please let us know, and, if you have a good pdf, please send it to my address (as the lists usually strip all attachments from email messages) A good weekend, still, MIchael WItzel > ============ > Michael Witzel > witzel at fas.harvard.edu > > Wales Prof. of Sanskrit & > Director of Graduate Studies, > Dept. of South Asian Studies, Harvard University > 1 Bow Street, > Cambridge MA 02138, USA > > phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; > my direct line: 617- 496 2990 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hellwig7 at GMX.DE Sun Jul 24 18:01:07 2011 From: hellwig7 at GMX.DE (Oliver Hellwig) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 11 19:01:07 +0100 Subject: New version of the DCS Message-ID: <161227093241.23782.8829560067139086223.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 878 Lines: 29 Dear list, a new version of the Digital Corpus of Sanskrit is available at http://kjc- fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/index.php. While the database remains unchanged in this version, the user interface now contains a more sophisticated function for searching for collocations. You start by selecting one lexeme (e.g., rAma), and the corpus proposes all other lexemes that are found in the same sentences as rAma (e.g., aklishta). By adding new lexemes to the search path (rAma + aklishta), it is possible to track topics and phrases effectively. A more detailed overview of how to use this function can be found at http:// kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/index.php? contents=help_collocations. Best, Oliver Hellwig -------------- PD Dr. Oliver Hellwig South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg Im Neuenheimer Feld 330 69120 Heidelberg Germany From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Jul 24 17:18:46 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 11 19:18:46 +0200 Subject: article search In-Reply-To: <20110724073621.APY61570@mstore02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227093237.23782.11183567654844510320.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 642 Lines: 21 On 24 July 2011 14:36, wrote: > Dear friends, > > [It is available > on SEALS, but, so far as I can see, can only be > downloaded page by page.] > SEALS does let you download full articles. On thispage, for example, click the icon to the left of the title. Once you click through to the first page of the article then, yes, you can only go page-by-page. DW -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Mon Jul 25 08:23:21 2011 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 11 10:23:21 +0200 Subject: Samkarsana's connection with liquor Message-ID: <161227093245.23782.3374122585015275469.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3016 Lines: 86 The Artha/saastra passage is discussed by Andreas Bigger, in his book Balaraama im Mahaabhaarata: seine Darstellung im Rahmen des Textes und seiner Entwicklung, Otto Harrassowitz Verlag, Freiburger Beitr?ge zur Indologie vol. 30, 1998, pp. 5 sq. http://books.google.be/books?id=2d_ZoFiQ5oYC http://www.indologie.uni-goettingen.de/cgi-bin/read/bin/webconnector.pl?uri=ldap://localhost:389/cn=2-729,ou=Purana-active,ou=Purana,dc=uni-goettingen,dc=de;lang=de With best wishes, Christophe Vielle >Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 10:52:47 +0300 >From: Asko Parpola >Subject: [INDOLOGY] Samkarsana's connection with liquor > > >On Sa?kar?a?a and his connection with liquor see pp. 365-6 and 369 in: > >Parpola, Asko, 2002. Panda?? and S?t?: On the historical background >of the Sanskrit epics. Journal of the American Oriental Society 122 >(2): 361-373. > >In the above paper, I am arguing that Sa?kar?a?a/Balar?ma partly >goes back to one of the A?vins/N?satyas; his original Indo-Iranian >drink was honey-beer, see pp. 39-41 in: > >Parpola, Asko, 2005. The N?satyas, the chariot and Proto-Aryan >religion. Journal of Indological Studies 16 & 17 (2004-2005): 1-63. >Kyoto. > >In a publication that is just coming out, I am discussing at length >B?larama/Sa?kar?a?a as the divine drinker of palm wine, who in this >role has replaced the wild ass (as recorded in the Dhenukavadha myth >of Hariva??a 57), the thirsty wild ass as the drinker par >excellence, his connection with the wine palm, with the mare-headed >demon who drinks so much ocean water as to cause the ebb of tide, >and his Harappan-Dravidian background: > >Parpola, Asko, and Juha Janhunen, 2011. On the Asiatic wild asses >(Equus hemionus & Equus kiang) and their vernacular names: New >revised version. Pp. 59-124 in: Toshiki Osada and Hitoshi Endo >(eds.), Linguistics, archaeology and the human past: Occasional >paper 12. Kyoto: Indus Project, Research Institute for Humanity and >Nature. > >With best regards, Asko Parpola > >Quoting JKirkpatrick : > >> >>Please post any replies to list. >> >>Thanks, >>Joanna Kirkpatrick >> >> >> >>-------- Original Message -------- >>Subject: [INDOLOGY] Query >>Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 13:57:34 -0500 >>From: Patrick Olivelle >>To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> >>Could the pa??itasabh? enlighten me on Sa?kar?a?a and his possible >>association with tribals, robbers, and liquor? He is mentioned >>within this kind of context in the Artha??stra, 13.3.54. Thanks. >> >>Patrick Olivelle -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ http://www.uclouvain.be/356389.html -- Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of storage free. http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Jul 26 13:04:57 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 11 15:04:57 +0200 Subject: Major public row about digital archives, JSTOR, and the high price of online copyright articles Message-ID: <161227093249.23782.8929935536399861551.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 266 Lines: 7 - http://goo.gl/yQ3Eg - http://signalnews.com/jstor-academic-articles-pirate-bay-617 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Thu Jul 28 14:26:18 2011 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 11 09:26:18 -0500 Subject: A Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093259.23782.13027497934318740725.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 664 Lines: 29 I have this book, and I think it is the same edition -- a reprint of his original translations of the edicts into ENGLISH, published by Kessinger. No Sanskrit!! On Jul 28, 2011, at 8:54 AM, Artur Karp wrote: > Dear All, > > > Has someone actually seen the book: > > V. Smith (ed.) Edicts of Asoka (Sanskrit Edition) > > > http://www.amazon.com/dp/8121505895/ref=rdr_ext_sb_ti_hist_3 > > > I want to buy it, provided, however, it's really a translation of > Asoka Edicts into Sanskrit. > > The paperback editions of the book do not contain any Sanskrit > translations, just plain English in fancy fonts. > > > Thank you and regards, > > Artur Karp From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Thu Jul 28 16:54:18 2011 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 11 09:54:18 -0700 Subject: A Question In-Reply-To: <10546_1311861291_1311861291_CAEgrCzCJqouwqMo394Akw-mWH6ttXMfh7iHYTOXNjydCNn1EBA@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227093262.23782.3787056307988670457.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 528 Lines: 17 Skt rendering of Asokan inscriptions is found in; Srinivasa Murti, G. and Krishna Aiyangar, A.N. 1950. Edicts of As'oka (Priyqdars'in). Adyar: Adyar Library. The Adyar Library Series no. 72. Sen, Amulyachandra. 1956. Asoka's edicts. With a pref. by Suniti Kumar Chatterji. Calcutta : Published for the Institute of Indology by the Indian Publicity Society, [1956]. Institute of Indology series, no. 7. ashok aklujkar On 2011-07-28, at 6:54 AM, Artur Karp wrote: > ... a translation of > Asoka Edicts into Sanskrit. From emstern at VERIZON.NET Thu Jul 28 14:38:46 2011 From: emstern at VERIZON.NET (Elliot M. Stern) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 11 10:38:46 -0400 Subject: A Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093256.23782.9618824947519906757.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 666 Lines: 35 The book is described as a facsimile edition published in 1999. Probably not a Sanskrit translation. Sent from my iPhone: 267-240-8418 Elliot On Jul 28, 2011, at 9:54, Artur Karp wrote: > Dear All, > > > Has someone actually seen the book: > > V. Smith (ed.) Edicts of Asoka (Sanskrit Edition) > > > http://www.amazon.com/dp/8121505895/ref=rdr_ext_sb_ti_hist_3 > > > I want to buy it, provided, however, it's really a translation of > Asoka Edicts into Sanskrit. > > The paperback editions of the book do not contain any Sanskrit > translations, just plain English in fancy fonts. > > > Thank you and regards, > > Artur Karp From athr at LOC.GOV Thu Jul 28 18:23:02 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 11 14:23:02 -0400 Subject: A Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093265.23782.3567512784108957021.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3740 Lines: 79 Artur, There appear to be two publications translating the edicts into Sanskrit but not mentioning Smith, according to my library's online catalog: LC control no.: 95909046 Type of material: Book (Print, Microform, Electronic, etc.) Personal name: Bhat?t?a, Jana?rdana. Main title: As?oqake dharmalekha [microform] / Jana?rdana Bhat?t?a ; bhu?mika? lekhaka Narendradeva. Edition: 1. sam?skaran?a. Published/Created: Ka?s?i? : Jn?anaman?d?ala Ka?rya?laya, 1980- [1923- Description: v. <1 > ; 18 cm. Summary: Study with Prakrit text, Sanskrit translation and grammatical interpretation of the inscriptions of edicts issued by Asoka, King of Magadha, fl. 259 B.C. Notes: Master microform held by: ICRL. Hindi, Prakrit, and Sanskrit. Additional formats: Microfilm. New Delhi : Library of Congress Office ; Chicago : Available from Center for Research Libraries, 1995- . On 1 microfilm reel with other items ; 35 mm. (SAMP early 20th-century Indian books project ; item 21532). Subjects: Asoka, King of Magadha, fl. 259 B.C. Inscriptions, Prakrit. Prakrit languages--Grammar. Series: SAMP early 20th-century Indian books project ; item 21532. LC classification: Microfilm CSL-HIN-168 (P) CALL NUMBER: Microfilm CSL-HIN-168 (P) So Asia Copy 1 -- Request in: Asian Reading Room (Jefferson, LJ150) ================================================================================ LC control no.: 58015474 Type of material: Book (Print, Microform, Electronic, etc.) Personal name: As?oka, King of Magadha, fl. 259 B.C. Main title: Asoka's edicts, by Amulyachandra Sen. With a pref. by Suniti Kumar Chatterji. Published/Created: Calcutta, Published for the Institute of Indology by the Indian Publicity Society [1956] Related names: Sen, Amulyachandra, ed. Description: xiv, 170 p. illus., maps. 26 cm. Notes: Text in Prakrit, Sanskrit, and English. Bibliography: p. [xiii]-xiv. Subjects: India--History--Maurya dynasty, ca. 322 B.C.-ca. 185 B.C. Series: Institute of Indology series, no. 7 LC classification: DS451.5 .A23 1956 CALL NUMBER: DS451.5 .A23 1956 Copy 1 -- Request in: Jefferson or Adams Building Reading Rooms ================= I see a probable spelling error or two in the record which I will get corrected. WorldCat shows a single copy of a second ed. of the first book, published Dilli, Pablikesansa Divizana, 1957, in a single volume. This is in Chicago. However, it is possible what is offered is a Hindi translation of Smith, which someone has identified as Sanskrit from the Nagari script. I cannot locate online a Hindi or Sanskrit translation of Smith, but Western libraries would not buy such a work and Indian libraries are not on OCLC/WorldCat yet, for the most part. WWW.used.addall.com shows this title with a reference to Amazon.com, but with the additional information that it was from Munshiram Manoharlal, being published in 1992. Perhaps you could ask Munshiram < http://www.mrmlonline.com > if that is indeed what it was. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From karp at UW.EDU.PL Thu Jul 28 13:54:43 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 11 15:54:43 +0200 Subject: A Question Message-ID: <161227093252.23782.18310587174473084275.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 412 Lines: 24 Dear All, Has someone actually seen the book: V. Smith (ed.) Edicts of Asoka (Sanskrit Edition) http://www.amazon.com/dp/8121505895/ref=rdr_ext_sb_ti_hist_3 I want to buy it, provided, however, it's really a translation of Asoka Edicts into Sanskrit. The paperback editions of the book do not contain any Sanskrit translations, just plain English in fancy fonts. Thank you and regards, Artur Karp From Gerard.Huet at INRIA.FR Thu Jul 28 19:26:42 2011 From: Gerard.Huet at INRIA.FR (=?utf-8?Q?G=C3=A9rard_Huet?=) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 11 21:26:42 +0200 Subject: A Question In-Reply-To: <60DCCBE4-C041-4C2E-BC5A-7EFDD7CE9647@ubc.ca> Message-ID: <161227093268.23782.9599507931805726233.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 611 Lines: 8 "Les inscriptions d'Asoka", traduites et comment?es par Jules Bloch. Paris, Les Belles Lettres, 1950. This contains the decipherments of the inscriptions, in standard romanization with diacritics, according to various epigraphists. For some inscriptions, there are as many as 6 versions according to the various sources, with ample linguistic notes comparing the forms to pali and buddhist sanskrit cognates. A rather literal French translation is provided. It has been reprinted in 2007, but the Amazon price is stiff - $65.46 http://www.amazon.com/inscriptions-dAsoka-French-Jules-Bloch/dp/2251720154 GH From falk at ZEDAT.FU-BERLIN.DE Thu Jul 28 19:51:34 2011 From: falk at ZEDAT.FU-BERLIN.DE (Harry Falk) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 11 21:51:34 +0200 Subject: 2 new publications In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093271.23782.6887490497619655704.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 750 Lines: 25 happy to announce: Judith A. Lerner & Nicholas Sims-Williams (eds.) Seals, sealings and tokens from Bactria to Gandhara (4th to 8th century CE) with contributions by Aman ur Rahman and Harry Falk. ?sterreichische Akademie der Wissenschaften, Phil.-Hist. Klasse, Denkschriften, 421 = Ver?ffentlichungen der Numismatischen Kommission, 52 = Studies in the Aman ur Rahman Collections, 2. Wien 2011, 222 p. ISBN 978-3-7001-6897-3 Brochure, DIN A4 EUR 69 -------------------------------------- Aman ur Rahman & Harry Falk Seals, sealings and tokens from Gandhara Monographien zur indischen Arch?ologie, Kunst und Philologie 21 = Studies in the Aman ur Rahman Collection, 1. Wiesbaden: Reichert Verlag, 238 p. ISBN 978-3-89500-819-1 hard-bound EUR 85. From karp at UW.EDU.PL Fri Jul 29 09:34:52 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 11 11:34:52 +0200 Subject: A Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093274.23782.15439768817240890721.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 203 Lines: 12 Dear Patrick, Ashok, Elliot, Allen, Gerard, Manish, My great thanks for your bibliographical suggestions. Am going to the University Library now, miracles do happen, don't they --- Regards, Artur From karp at UW.EDU.PL Fri Jul 29 14:32:22 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 11 16:32:22 +0200 Subject: A Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093277.23782.3933655712119998153.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 836 Lines: 28 > Am going to the > University Library now, miracles do happen, don't they --- Dear Friends, Miracles do happen, yes. Today a modest one, but still. As it turned out, my Deptt's library has Amulyachandra Sen's 1956 book on Asoka's Edicts. >?From a blurb: "This volume gives epigraphically authentic versions of the standard texts of the Inscriptions together with English translations, brief notes in the light of latest researches and philologically sound Sanskritized versions of the texts, in scientific transliteration in Roman type". A gift from the Indian Council of Cultural Relations. Also D.C. Sircar's 1957 "Inscriptions of A?oka", published by the Publication Division, Ministry of Information & Broadcasting, Govt. of India. 85 pages, Introduction plus English translation of the Edicts. Thanks once more, Artur From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Fri Jul 29 15:23:14 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 11 20:53:14 +0530 Subject: A Question In-Reply-To: <60DCCBE4-C041-4C2E-BC5A-7EFDD7CE9647@ubc.ca> Message-ID: <161227093281.23782.14487850761619716074.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1494 Lines: 34 Dear Friends, The two books are available at the Central Library, Visva Bharati too. One might find interest in the following piece of information. I had to render some of the inscriptions of Asoka into Sanskrit for teaching at the class. Old Persian Inscriptions, Avestan passages and MIA inscriptions and texts are very often taught in India with Sanskrit renderings. Late Professor Sukumar Sen taught us Old Iranian (Avesta,Darius and Cyrus)?at the Cacutta University with Sanskrit rendering. Later Professor S.R.Banerjee did the same for his students. Best DB? --- On Thu, 28/7/11, Ashok Aklujkar wrote: From: Ashok Aklujkar Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] A Question To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Thursday, 28 July, 2011, 4:54 PM Skt rendering of Asokan inscriptions is found in; Srinivasa Murti, G. and Krishna Aiyangar, A.N. 1950. Edicts of As'oka (Priyqdars'in). Adyar: Adyar Library. The Adyar Library Series no. 72. Sen, Amulyachandra. 1956. Asoka's edicts. With a pref. by Suniti Kumar Chatterji. Calcutta : Published for the Institute of Indology by the Indian Publicity Society, [1956]. Institute of Indology series, no. 7. ashok aklujkar On 2011-07-28, at 6:54 AM, Artur Karp wrote: > ...? a translation of > Asoka Edicts into Sanskrit. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Sat Jul 30 09:05:13 2011 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 11 11:05:13 +0200 Subject: praa.naayaama again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093284.23782.7197458745458789728.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1259 Lines: 24 Dear list, After the interesting responses I received on and off list to my query about recaka, p?raka and kumbhaka in March, I am returning with another question about pr???y?ma. Although it is commonly divided into three parts, recaka, p?raka and kumbhaka, the Nayas?tra of the Ni?v?satattvasa?hit? divides pr???y?ma into four, the fourth being something it calls supra??nta. n?bhy?? h?dayasa?c?r?n mana? cendriyagocar?t| pr???y?ma? caturthas tu supra??ntas tu vi?ruta?|| 4:113|| ?There is a fourth breath-exercise which is called Supra??nta [achieved] by moving [the vital energy] from the heart into the navel and [by moving] the mind away from the sense-objects.? This fourth part of pr???y?ma is found also in the Svacchandatantra, which has drawn a great deal upon the Ni?v?sa, and in the Tantrasadbh?vatantra, which has drawn in turn upon the Svacchanda. And Nirajan Kafle has pointed out to me that the fourth division is to be found also in the Dharmaputrik?, a text of the ?ivadharma corpus (Dharmaputrik? 1:19): p?raka? kumbhaka? caiva recakas tadanantaram pra??nta? caiva vij?eya? pr???y?ma? caturvidha?. Is such a fourth pr???y?ma to be found in any other traditions of yoga ? Dominic Goodall ?cole fran?aise d?Extr?me-Orient, Paris From torzsokjudit at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Jul 30 21:20:50 2011 From: torzsokjudit at HOTMAIL.COM (Judit Torzsok) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 11 21:20:50 +0000 Subject: praa.naayaama again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093292.23782.963264087504022087.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2428 Lines: 36 This fourth phase is also mentioned in Siddhayoge"svariimata 7.21, which calls it pra"saanta and claims that it is mental (maanasa). More detailed (nondual) explanation is given in the Tantraaloka + Viveka 17.87ff, trying to read this practice into the Maaliniivijayottara (which, however, does not seem to have it). Abhinavagupta understands that the practice starts at the muulaadhaara and goes up to the dvaada"saanta. Although the Siddhayoge"svariimata usually speaks of 3 parts of praa.naayaama (praa.naayaamatraya in 17.20 as well as elsewhere, e.g. in 19.2) when it prescribes the purification of the body, it adds this "fourth" part here, in 7.21, as something particularly associated with the seed syllable of Paraa, in/ with which one must keep the breath with kumbhaka. JT > Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:05:13 +0200 > From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM > Subject: [INDOLOGY] praa.naayaama again > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Dear list, > > After the interesting responses I received on and off list to my query about recaka, p?raka and kumbhaka in March, I am returning with another question about pr???y?ma. > > Although it is commonly divided into three parts, recaka, p?raka and kumbhaka, the Nayas?tra of the Ni?v?satattvasa?hit? divides pr???y?ma into four, the fourth being something it calls supra??nta. > > n?bhy?? h?dayasa?c?r?n mana? cendriyagocar?t| > pr???y?ma? caturthas tu supra??ntas tu vi?ruta?|| 4:113|| > > ?There is a fourth breath-exercise which is called Supra??nta [achieved] by moving [the vital energy] from the heart into the navel and [by moving] the mind away from the sense-objects.? > > This fourth part of pr???y?ma is found also in the Svacchandatantra, which has drawn a great deal upon the Ni?v?sa, and in the Tantrasadbh?vatantra, which has drawn in turn upon the Svacchanda. And Nirajan Kafle has pointed out to me that the fourth division is to be found also in the Dharmaputrik?, a text of the ?ivadharma corpus (Dharmaputrik? 1:19): > > p?raka? kumbhaka? caiva recakas tadanantaram > pra??nta? caiva vij?eya? pr???y?ma? caturvidha?. > > Is such a fourth pr???y?ma to be found in any other traditions of yoga ? > > Dominic Goodall > ?cole fran?aise d?Extr?me-Orient, > Paris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From utkragh at HUM.KU.DK Sat Jul 30 20:23:40 2011 From: utkragh at HUM.KU.DK (Ulrich T. Kragh) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 11 22:23:40 +0200 Subject: praa.naayaama again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093288.23782.11966656252391545110.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2057 Lines: 33 Dominic Goodall wrote: >Is such a fourth pr???y?ma [i.e., supra??nta] to be found in any other traditions of yoga ? The Tibetan system of pranayama linked with the Candali practice (Tib. gtum mo), which originates from the Hevajra and other Tantras, likewise has four steps, which are standard in more or less all Tibetan sources on the topic. The terms for two of them seem to correspond with two of the terms you mention, but the fourth term does certainly not correspond to suprazanta. So, this posting may be of very little use to you, but for curiosity's sake I shall list them here nevertheless. The relevant verse from the Bka'-dpe, being the earliest root-text for the N'a-ro Chos-drug system in Tibet (i.e., "the six doctrines of N'a ro pa") says: rngub dang dgang dang gzhil ba dang/ /mda' ltar 'phang dang rnam pa bzhi/ / "There are four steps (rnam pa bzhi - *cathurvidha): inhaling (rngub), filling (dgang), expelling (gzhil ba), and ejecting like an arrow (mda' ltar 'phang)." Concerning the centrality of the Bka'-dpe text as a source for the early Tibetan yoga tradition (ca. 12th century onwards), see my recent article "Prolegomenon to the Six Doctrines of Na ro pa: Authority and Tradition", which I can send you off-list, if needed. The Hevajratantra I.xi.3, speaking of one of the "four gazes", attests Sanskrit equivalents for some of these Tibetan terms, and indeed also has the word prazAntaka, which is reminiscient of your suprazAnta, in the same context (Snellgrove, 1959.2:40): pAtanA recakanaiva kuMbhakena vazIkaret// pUrakeNaiva tv AkRSTiH prazAntakena stambhanA// (3) Tibetan version: 'byung ba nyid kyis ltung bar byed// rnub pa yis ni dbang du byed// dgang ba yis ni dgug pa nyid// zhi ba yis ni rengs par byed// (3) Snellgrove's translation: "Overthrowing is accompanied by exhaling, subduing by inhaling, conjuring forth by holding the breath and petrifying by the tranquilized pose. Happy hunting for further attestations and parallels! Sincerely, Tim Dr. Ulrich Timme Kragh Gonda Fellow, IIAS, Leiden From e.ciurtin at GMAIL.COM Sun Jul 31 08:24:59 2011 From: e.ciurtin at GMAIL.COM (Eugen Ciurtin) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 11 11:24:59 +0300 Subject: Major public row about digital archives, JSTOR, and the high price of online copyright articles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093296.23782.11580478974021537889.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1701 Lines: 46 Dear Dominik, Thank you for mentioning this. Irrespective of the intricate claims made by these authors, it may be worth noting there are here analogous arguments regarding pirate legitimacy which somehow survived from a history of 17th-18th European ideas about pirate/brigand practice, including in colonial oceans. However, more about electronic storage, copyright issues and the cost of newer knowledge in South Asian / Buddhist Studies research is to be found in a splendid contribution by Marcus Bingenheimer - 'Collaborative Editions and Translations Projects in the Era of Digital Texts', in Konrad Klaus (ed.), *Translating Buddhist Chinese Texts: Problems and Prospects*, Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz, 2010: 21-43 (without reviews up to now?). It is a relief for younger or not well connected or indeed all researchers to conveniently follow grand scholars like e.g. Johannes Bronkhorst or Guy Stroumsa or yourself - as they made readily available for free their recent contributions. kind regards Eugen 2011/7/26 Dominik Wujastyk > > - http://goo.gl/yQ3Eg > - http://signalnews.com/jstor-academic-articles-pirate-bay-617 > > > -- Dr E. Ciurtin Secretary of the Romanian Association for the History of Religions Publications Officer of the European Association for the Study of Religions www.easr.eu Lecturer & Secretary of the Scientific Council Institute for the History of Religions, Romanian Academy Calea 13 Septembrie no. 13 sect. 5, Bucharest 050711 Phone: 00 40 733 951 953 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palaniappa at AOL.COM Sun Jul 31 16:20:35 2011 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 11 12:20:35 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?The_use_of_retroflex__approximant_=E1=B8=BB_in_Ja______________iminiya_Sama_Veda_in__Kerala?= Message-ID: <161227093310.23782.11005323559813280028.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 785 Lines: 42 In Tamil and Malayalam some words with original ? are hypercorrected and pronounced with ?. Examples include the following Ta. ??v?r>??v?r (See http://www.linguist.univ-paris-diderot.fr/~chevilla/FestSchrift/supa_9d.pdf) Ta. k??vi > k??vi (See Comparative Dravidian Phonology by Kamil Zvelebil, 1970, p. 141) Ma. *??cca > ??cca (DEDR 5157) Given that Jaimin?ya S?ma Vedic pronunciation by Malayalam-speaking Nambudiri brahmins has i??, I wonder if the Sanskritists would consider that to be a case of hypercorrection for original i??. Thanks in advance. Regards, Palaniappan = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Sun Jul 31 10:56:45 2011 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 11 12:56:45 +0200 Subject: SV: [INDOLOGY] praa.naayaama again In-Reply-To: <79FCCAF7C75EB045B63C1FDFDB0E38B21A64E1AD81@post> Message-ID: <161227093301.23782.1637015025085249554.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4002 Lines: 72 Dear all, Many thanks indeed for all these helpful pointers ! When I first scanned through the various passages (to which may be added also the C11th Tattvaratnaavaloka and its autocommentary, by Vaagii"svarakiirti, and Sa.mvarodayatantra 19:30, both of which use the expression pra"saantaka), I had the impression that there were several different notions of a fourth praa.naayaama that might have been added independently. But one label (for Supra??nta, Pra??nta and Pra??ntaka are clearly, in essence, the same name), which I had thought rare, turns out to be shared by several early ?aiva sources and a few Buddhist tantric ones. So now I wonder whether the various notions of the 4th praa.naayaama do not after all all start from Yogas?tra 2:51 (baahyaabhyantaravi.sayaak.sepii caturtha.h), which is (for me) obscure because it uses that rather multivalent verb aak.sip. (Does it mean ?pervade?, as the Vivara.na interprets, or ?examine? as Bhojadeva supposes, or something else again?) What I mean is that perhaps there was after all one original conception of a 4th praa.naayaama: a profound super-kumbhaka that is not measured out but that is felt to come to exist, after long practice, as a state that underlies all three other praa.naayaamas. As for the name sa.mgha.t.taka/sa.mgha.taka in the Siddhasiddhaantapaddhati, it perhaps reflects that all the other 3 are grouped or fused in the fourth. I can make nothing of ?ejecting like an arrow?. Could the Tibetan be interpreted in any other way? How is pra"saantaka rendered in Tibetan translation when it occurs in the Hevajratantra ? In sum, even though I don't really quite understand what is meant by Supra??nta, I feel I know a lot more about it thanks to the interesting messages of Hartmut Buescher, Ulrich Kragh, Judit T?rzs?k and others. With thanks, Dominic Goodall On 30-Jul-2011, at 3:09 PM, Hartmut Buescher wrote: > >> Although [pr???y?ma] is commonly divided into three parts, recaka, p?raka and kumbhaka, ... > > Pata?jali (PYS II.51) actually indicates a fourth one > >> Is such a fourth pr???y?ma to be found in any other traditions of yoga ? > > e.g., the Siddhasiddh?ntapaddhati II. 35 (ed. Gharote/Pai, Lonavla 2005) > likewise defines pr???y?ma in terms of 4 lak?a?as; it reads: > > pr???y?ma iti pr??asya sthirat? / > recaka-p?raka-kumbhaka-sa?gha??akakara??ni catv?ri pr???y?malak?a??ni // > > Best wishes, > > Hartmut Buescher > > > ________________________________________ > Fra: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] På vegne af Dominic Goodall [dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM] > Sendt: 30. juli 2011 11:05 > Til: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Emne: [INDOLOGY] praa.naayaama again > > Dear list, > > After the interesting responses I received on and off list to my query about recaka, p?raka and kumbhaka in March, I am returning with another question about pr???y?ma. > > Although it is commonly divided into three parts, recaka, p?raka and kumbhaka, the Nayas?tra of the Ni?v?satattvasa?hit? divides pr???y?ma into four, the fourth being something it calls supra??nta. > > n?bhy?? h?dayasa?c?r?n mana? cendriyagocar?t| > pr???y?ma? caturthas tu supra??ntas tu vi?ruta?|| 4:113|| > > ?There is a fourth breath-exercise which is called Supra??nta [achieved] by moving [the vital energy] from the heart into the navel and [by moving] the mind away from the sense-objects.? > > This fourth part of pr???y?ma is found also in the Svacchandatantra, which has drawn a great deal upon the Ni?v?sa, and in the Tantrasadbh?vatantra, which has drawn in turn upon the Svacchanda. And Nirajan Kafle has pointed out to me that the fourth division is to be found also in the Dharmaputrik?, a text of the ?ivadharma corpus (Dharmaputrik? 1:19): > > p?raka? kumbhaka? caiva recakas tadanantaram > pra??nta? caiva vij?eya? pr???y?ma? caturvidha?. > > Is such a fourth pr???y?ma to be found in any other traditions of yoga ? > > Dominic Goodall > ?cole fran?aise d?Extr?me-Orient, > Paris From steiner at MAILER.UNI-MARBURG.DE Sun Jul 31 11:38:24 2011 From: steiner at MAILER.UNI-MARBURG.DE (Roland Steiner) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 11 13:38:24 +0200 Subject: SV: [INDOLOGY] praa.naayaama again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093304.23782.5362126104951766846.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 566 Lines: 25 Dear Dominic, > How is pra"saantaka rendered in Tibetan translation when it occurs > in the Hevajratantra ? pra??ntaka in Hevajratanta I.11.3d has been translated in its literal meaning as zhi ba (Snellgrove 1959 II: 41); zhi ba "to become quiet" (= Skt. ??nta). Best, Roland Steiner -- Dr. Roland Steiner Martin-Luther-Universit?t Halle-Wittenberg Seminar f?r Indologie Emil-Abderhalden-Str. 9 D-06099 Halle (Saale) Tel.: +49-345-55-23656 Fax.: +49-345-55-27211 URL: http://www.indologie.uni-halle.de/ E-Mail: roland.steiner at indologie.uni-halle.de From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Jul 31 16:11:47 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 11 18:11:47 +0200 Subject: Major public row about digital archives, JSTOR, and the high price of online copyright articles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093307.23782.15119761761415144289.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2069 Lines: 62 Thanks for this very interesting reference, Eugen. I found it online (!) here: - http://mbingenheimer.net/publications/bingenheimer.budTranslationDigitalAge.2010.pdf It's a brave new world, that's all. Best, Dominik On 31 July 2011 10:24, Eugen Ciurtin wrote: > Dear Dominik, > > Thank you for mentioning this. Irrespective of the intricate claims made by > these authors, it may be worth noting there are here analogous > arguments regarding pirate legitimacy which somehow survived from a history > of 17th-18th European ideas about pirate/brigand practice, including in > colonial oceans. However, more about electronic storage, copyright issues > and the cost of newer knowledge in South Asian / Buddhist Studies research > is to be found in a splendid contribution by Marcus Bingenheimer - > 'Collaborative Editions and Translations Projects in the Era of Digital > Texts', in Konrad Klaus (ed.), *Translating Buddhist Chinese Texts: > Problems and Prospects*, Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz, 2010: 21-43 (without > reviews up to now?). It is a relief for younger or not well connected or > indeed all researchers to conveniently follow grand scholars like > e.g. Johannes Bronkhorst or Guy Stroumsa or yourself - as they made readily > available for free their recent contributions. > > kind regards > Eugen > > 2011/7/26 Dominik Wujastyk > >> >> - http://goo.gl/yQ3Eg >> - http://signalnews.com/jstor-academic-articles-pirate-bay-617 >> >> >> > > > -- > Dr E. Ciurtin > Secretary of the Romanian Association for the History of Religions > > Publications Officer of the European Association for the Study of Religions > www.easr.eu > > Lecturer & Secretary of the Scientific Council > Institute for the History of Religions, Romanian Academy > Calea 13 Septembrie no. 13 sect. 5, Bucharest 050711 > Phone: 00 40 733 951 953 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pma at RDORTE.ORG Wed Jun 1 11:26:11 2011 From: pma at RDORTE.ORG (patrick mc allister) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 11 13:26:11 +0200 Subject: SARIT texts available in online repository Message-ID: <161227092669.23782.14595768570549551600.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 870 Lines: 26 Dear colleagues, the e-texts included in SARIT (Search and Retrieval of Indic Texts, http://sarit.indology.info/), are now available in an online repository that, so the hope of Dominik Wujastyk and myself, will make the collaboration on the existing files and the addition of new files to SARIT easier. Please see https://github.com/paddymcall/SARIT/blob/master/README.org for a description of what this repository is and how it might be used. Yours, -- patrick mc allister long term email: pma at rdorte.org *current* office email: patrick.mcallister at oeaw.ac.at homepage: http://rdorte.org/pma/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Wed Jun 1 18:27:44 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 11 14:27:44 -0400 Subject: Translations of Rig Veda Suparna Sukta (RV I.164) In-Reply-To: <425870.29449.qm@web94802.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227092677.23782.1950055570611761872.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3165 Lines: 114 DB, I agree entirely about the strengths of Jan's paper, of course. George On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 5:04 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya < dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com> wrote: > My intention was to point to some of the plus points (there are many) of > the paper. Its subject matter, as the title shows, is different from RV > 1.164. Some verses have been taken up as relevant and their meaning, it > seemed to me, has been correctly understood. The information might be > helpful to the original enquirer. > > George's would-be-study is most welcome. > > Best > > DB > > > > > > > --- On *Tue, 31/5/11, George Thompson * wrote: > > > From: George Thompson > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Translations of Rig Veda Suparna Sukta (RV I.164) > > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Tuesday, 31 May, 2011, 6:17 PM > > > Dear List, > > There is also an English version of Jan's paper in JAOS 120.4 [Oct-Dec > 2000]. This has a complete translation appended to it. However, I do not > think that Jan or anyone else has mastered or solved this hymn. In deference > to Dipak, I will not mystery-monger. But the hymn is certainly a brahmodya > hymn with many still unsolved riddles. I will include a translation and > commentary in my forthcoming Rigveda anthology. > > Best, > George > > > On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya < > dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com > > wrote: > > 31 05 11 > > Dear Colleagues, > > I regret that I forgot to mention the following study extensively dealing, > inter alia, with the relation between RV 1.164 and the > Av?ntarad?k??/Pravargya. A worthwhile reading the approach of the author is > marked by scrupulous avoidance of mystery-mongering and convincingly > establishing the ritual connection, with what one may call a no nonsense > approach without fanfare. > > Best > > DB > > ?Transmission sans ?criture dans l?inde ancienne :?nigme et Structure > rituelle? > > Jan E. M. HOUBEN > > as > > *?**TUDES TH?MATIQUES **23 * > > *?crire et transmettre en Inde classique* > > Sous la direction de G?rard COLAS et Gerdi GERSCHHEIMER > > ?cole fran?aise d?Extr?me-Orient > > Paris, 2009 > > --- On *Tue, 31/5/11, Dean Michael Anderson > >* wrote: > > > From: Dean Michael Anderson > > > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Translations of Rig Veda Suparna Sukta (RV I.164) > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Tuesday, 31 May, 2011, 10:18 AM > > A colleague asked me for recommended translations of the Rig Veda > Suparna Sukta (RV I.164). > > I've been meaning to get around to working with it myself but, like so many > things, I haven't gotten around to it. > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > Best, > > Dean > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Wed Jun 1 09:04:38 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 11 14:34:38 +0530 Subject: Translations of Rig Veda Suparna Sukta (RV I.164) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092666.23782.11856765319069133884.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2617 Lines: 97 My intention was to point to some of the plus points (there are many) of the paper. Its subject matter, as the title shows, is different from RV 1.164. Some verses have been taken up as relevant and their meaning, it seemed to me, has been correctly understood. The information might be helpful to the original enquirer.George's would-be-study is most welcome. Best DB ? ? --- On Tue, 31/5/11, George Thompson wrote: From: George Thompson Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Translations of Rig Veda Suparna Sukta (RV I.164) To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 31 May, 2011, 6:17 PM Dear List, ? There is also an English version of Jan's paper in JAOS 120.4 [Oct-Dec 2000].? This has a complete translation appended to it.? However, I do not think that Jan or anyone else has mastered or solved this hymn. In deference to Dipak, I will not mystery-monger.? But the hymn is certainly a brahmodya hymn with many still unsolved riddles.? ?I will include a translation and commentary in my forthcoming Rigveda anthology. ? Best, George ? On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: 31 05 11 Dear Colleagues, I regret that I forgot to mention the following study extensively dealing, inter alia, with the relation between RV 1.164 and the Av?ntarad?k??/Pravargya. A worthwhile reading the approach of the author is marked by scrupulous avoidance of mystery-mongering and convincingly establishing the ritual connection, with what one may call a no nonsense approach without fanfare. Best DB ?Transmission sans ?criture dans l?inde ancienne :?nigme et Structure rituelle? Jan E. M. HOUBEN as ?TUDES TH?MATIQUES 23 ?crire et transmettre en Inde classique Sous la direction de G?rard COLAS et Gerdi GERSCHHEIMER ?cole fran?aise d?Extr?me-Orient Paris, 2009 --- On Tue, 31/5/11, Dean Michael Anderson wrote: From: Dean Michael Anderson Subject: [INDOLOGY] Translations of Rig Veda Suparna Sukta (RV I.164) To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 31 May, 2011, 10:18 AM A colleague asked me for recommended translations of the? Rig Veda Suparna Sukta (RV I.164). I've been meaning to get around to working with it myself but, like so many things, I haven't gotten around to it. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Best, Dean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Jun 1 16:12:17 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 11 18:12:17 +0200 Subject: SARIT texts available in online repository In-Reply-To: <20110601112611.GS8417@rdorte.org> Message-ID: <161227092673.23782.11611378469186050694.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5417 Lines: 116 Dear colleagues, Further to Patrick's announcement, I should like to add a word on the background of this initiative. The work Patrick has done here on the SARIT collection is conceptually very important. I consider it a move in a direction that will become an essential component of the way we all work in the longer-term future, and it will help us all to be better indologists. But at the moment, the interfaces are pretty hard for people who are not into computing, or who haven't thought about Revision Control Systems (RCS) before. A glance at the Wikipedia page, Revision Control, shows an image that will be familiar to those engaged in critical editing: a stemma. And that's what this is all about. Textual criticism is all about reconstructing a stemma of descent from an archetype in the past. What Revision Control programs do is to capture the stemma of texts *as they evolve* from the present into the future. Effectively, they make the stemma explicit as a text is written, rewritten, expanded, edited, and so forth. In the SARIT case, we have been concerned about how to capture version information. Let's say we put up a text of the Bhagavadg?t?. We type it from the Pune edition, and we try hard to be accurate, and we put a nice fat TEI header at the top of the file saying exactly what edition we've used, what we've done to the text, who we are, what the date is, and so forth. It's a new edition, and electronic one, properly documented, with a pedigree. Lets say you download it, and add markup (TEI, naturally) to all the dialogues, so that it is explicit whether K???a or Arjuna is speaking, because you want to study whether their speech patterns are different (or whatever). Now your personal copy of the e-gita is enriched. You want to deposit your enriched copy back with SARIT. We want to receive it. Let's say a third person also takes a copy of the G?t? from SARIT, the original un-marked-up one. That person finds lots of typos, and corrects them. Version 3 of the text now has a better-quality Sanskrit text. The corrector wants to deposit this new differently-enriched version back with SARIT too. We want to receive it. And wouldn't it be nice if the corrected Sanskrit could be merged back into the interlocutor-marked-up one. Now you see the problem. We have two derivative e-texts of the same underlying "work." Both are accurate, both deserve to be in SARIT. It could easily become a nightmare of colliding versions, all good but in different ways. What Patrick has put in place is a system that elegantly copes with this problem. Versions of e-texts are stored in the GITversion-control system. The powerful and complex GIT software makes it possible to see exactly what has happened to the e-text, and to check out particular versions, merge or separate versions, and so forth. Versions can be viewed simply as parallel colour-coded texts (like thisor this), or in more complicated graphical ways, when one wants to get an overview of complex changes (like this or this). There are numerous front-ends to GIT that display the underlying textual variations in different ways. We are just at the beginning with this, and we know that the systems have to get more user-friendly if they are to be widely adopted by scholars who focus on philological matters first and foremost. The goal is to provide the kind of textual security that a traditional critical edition gives, but in the electronic world. Texts from SARIT will be well-defined textual objects whose identity and sources are explicitly documented and whose evolution - for evolution is inevitable - is also explicitly documented and made transparent. When someone needs to cite an e-text in their research, they can look forward in the future to having something clearly defined to which they can refer in concrete terms, and that is worthy of a dignified footnote. Best, Dominik On 1 June 2011 13:26, patrick mc allister wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > the e-texts included in SARIT (Search and Retrieval of Indic Texts, > http://sarit.indology.info/), are now available in an online > repository that, so the hope of Dominik Wujastyk and myself, will make > the collaboration on the existing files and the addition of new files > to SARIT easier. > > Please see https://github.com/paddymcall/SARIT/blob/master/README.org > for a description of what this repository is and how it might be used. > > Yours, > > -- > patrick mc allister > > long term email: pma at rdorte.org > *current* office email: patrick.mcallister at oeaw.ac.at > homepage: http://rdorte.org/pma/ > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAk3mIdMACgkQN5RlYmr8acQRygCgku9aRSN8QLvJJQSfhjn2pFfe > 35YAn11KT1wN95YVVYv0sJs5ft23/i9n > =O5jJ > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.clark at INBOX.COM Thu Jun 2 04:57:14 2011 From: chris.clark at INBOX.COM (Chris Clark) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 11 20:57:14 -0800 Subject: Contemporary Sanskrit poetry In-Reply-To: <7480e0905338.4de78769@anu.edu.au> Message-ID: <161227092685.23782.1041526673443623978.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 164 Lines: 10 Dear colleagues, Is anyone able to recommend some good overviews of contemporary Sanskrit poetry? Many thanks, Chris Clark PhD candidate, University of Sydney From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Thu Jun 2 11:09:37 2011 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 11 07:09:37 -0400 Subject: FW: [INDOLOGY] Contemporary Sanskrit poetry In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D71E326ACB3D@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227092687.23782.7379276518201725629.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1341 Lines: 31 From: Deshpande, Madhav Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 6:37 AM To: Chris Clark Subject: RE: [INDOLOGY] Contemporary Sanskrit poetry There is a 1963 Marathi book by Shridhar Bhaskar Warnekar titled Arvachin Samskrita Sahitya giving a detailed survey of modern Skt lit. A massive volume of Warnekar's own poetic contribution was also published after he passed away. His epic poem on Shivaji titled Shivarajyodayam is a wonderful example of a modern poet who in some ways rivals Kalidasa. There are other surveys of modern Skt lit including those by Ramaji Upadhyaya in Hindi. I don't know of any significant work in English, and the western research in general is under the illusion of "Death of Sanskrit." Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Chris Clark [chris.clark at INBOX.COM] Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 12:57 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Contemporary Sanskrit poetry Dear colleagues, Is anyone able to recommend some good overviews of contemporary Sanskrit poetry? Many thanks, Chris Clark PhD candidate, University of Sydney From McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Thu Jun 2 02:51:53 2011 From: McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 11 12:51:53 +1000 Subject: phala=?iso-8859-2?Q?=B6ruti?= verses Message-ID: <161227092681.23782.16363261665819344048.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 388 Lines: 14 ?Dear Colleagues Has anyone attempted to theorise phala?ruti verses?? I have searched the major databases but have been unable to find anything. Any guidance gratefully received With thanks in advance McComas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athr at LOC.GOV Thu Jun 2 20:33:04 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 11 16:33:04 -0400 Subject: Contemporary Sanskrit poetry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092690.23782.2471661069430177967.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1166 Lines: 24 You could look at the Library of Congress online catalog < http://catalog.loc.gov > browsing the Subject Heading "Sanskrit literature--20th century" and several subheadings. NB that the books assigned the more inclusive LCSH are not necessarily also assigned the more general one, though they may be. So you will have to pull up the titles list for each heading. There are also narrower works under "Sanskrit poetry--20th century" and subheadings. I have not examined these and cannot comment on their various merits. I think the LOC would have interlibrary loan relationships with Australia, though, to tell tales out of school, we are not known for our swiftness in ILL requests even with other American institutions. A gratifyingly large percentage of these titles appear to be from the last decade or two and so one may hope they are still in print and can be purchased. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU Fri Jun 3 22:49:26 2011 From: tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU (Gary Tubb) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 11 17:49:26 -0500 Subject: Scholastic Sanskrit index Message-ID: <161227092705.23782.15484011610417497880.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 392 Lines: 16 Many readers have noted that some page numbers are incorrect in the index of the book "Scholastic Sanskrit: A Manual for Students." A corrected version of the index is available at the following link: http://home.uchicago.edu/~tubb/ScholasticSanskritIndex.pdf Yours, Gary Tubb. -- Gary Tubb, Professor Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations The University of Chicago From athr at LOC.GOV Fri Jun 3 21:52:15 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 11 17:52:15 -0400 Subject: Tagore Jayanti at Library of Congress, Thursday, June 9 Message-ID: <161227092702.23782.10331917630736997529.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1346 Lines: 45 The Asian Division of Library of Congress Invites You to Come and Celebrate With Us 150th Birth Anniversary of Gurudev Rabindranath Tagore Rabindranath Tagore (1861 - 1941) was a Bengali poet, novelist, musician, painter and playwright. He was the first non-European to be awarded the Nobel Prize for Literature (1913). Distingushed Guests: His Excellency Akramul Qader, The Ambassador of Bangladesh Dr. Virender Paul, Minister, Press Information and Culture, Embassy of India Talks By: Dr. Anandarup Ray Mr. Anis Ahmed Music and Recitation By: Dr. Sudeshna Basu Mr. Iqbal Bahar Choudhury Mr. Jeffery Bauer Mr. Ahsanul Huq Book Display from Library of Congress Collections on Rabindranath Tagore's Writings, music, plays, poems, prose, paintings and much more. Contact: Nuzhat Khatoon, nkha at loc.gov, 202-707-2666 Request ADA accommodations five business days in advance at (202) 707-6362 (voice/TTY) or email ADA at loc.gov Thursday, June 9th, 2011 12:00 p.m.-1:00 p.m. Library of Congress LJ- 150, Asian Division Foyer Jefferson Building, Library of Congress 101 Independence Ave., SE Washington, DC 20540 Metro Stop: Capitol South on Blue/Orange Line -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Fri Jun 3 12:41:18 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 11 18:11:18 +0530 Subject: Contemporary Sanskrit poetry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092694.23782.16576444566898527200.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1873 Lines: 61 Dear friends, I can inform of some names and publications but am unable to provide any internet link. Sitanath Acharya: ?Modern Sanskrit literature and contemporary society? pp.14-26, Sanskrit Studies Modern Sensibilities UGC-Academic Staff College and Department of Sanskrit, University of Calcutta, April 2004. The article is in Bengali but the bibliographical details of cited publications are in English Dipak Ghosh ?Sanskrit Sensitivities with reference to two modern Sanskrit Lyrics?Vil?papa?cik? and R?jan?til?m?tam? ibid pp.153-160. Both the above authors themselves wrote many poems in Sanskrit. The most successful Sanskrit poet in twentieth century Bengal was ?r?j?va Ny?yat?rtha whose books are available in print with the two or three traditional dealers in Sanskritic books in Calcutta. In the nineties there were some attempts to start projects on modern creative Sanskrit literature in some Universities of South Bengal and by some interested persons.? I cannot inform on their results. As far as I remember Dr. Rita Chatterjee of the Jadavpur University was sometimes engaged in research on twentieth century Sanskrit literature. Perhaps, herself not a creative writer she looked informative to me. She might have brought about some publications on the subject. Best DB ? --- On Thu, 2/6/11, Chris Clark wrote: From: Chris Clark Subject: [INDOLOGY] Contemporary Sanskrit poetry To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Thursday, 2 June, 2011, 4:57 AM Dear colleagues, Is anyone able to recommend some good overviews of contemporary Sanskrit poetry? Many thanks, Chris Clark PhD candidate, University of Sydney -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From veerankp at GMAIL.COM Fri Jun 3 14:32:47 2011 From: veerankp at GMAIL.COM (Veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 11 20:02:47 +0530 Subject: Contemporary Sanskrit poetry In-Reply-To: <378199.67077.qm@web94806.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227092698.23782.13104813692214279812.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3143 Lines: 88 there is a journal called "drk" fully dedicated to critical evaluation of modern samskrita literature. it is published from Allahabad. most of the contemporary critics and poets publish their critiques and poetries therein. it is edited by Banamali Biswal who can be contacted by , "banamali biswal" . offcourse there are many a seminars organised on this subject by many poets. you can contack prof. Tarashankara sharma on who organised/part of some of these seminars. he can be contacted prof.tspandeya at gmail.com, whose father Pandit Mohanlal sharma, is a recipient of many awards in poetry like Padmini etc. since I have nothing to do with poetry, I have no biblio records on hand. On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya < dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com> wrote: > Dear friends, > > I can inform of some names and publications but am unable to provide any > internet link. > > Sitanath Acharya: ?Modern Sanskrit literature and contemporary society? > pp.14-26, *Sanskrit Studies Modern Sensibilities* UGC-Academic Staff > College and Department of Sanskrit, University of Calcutta, April 2004. The > article is in Bengali but the bibliographical details of cited publications > are in English > > Dipak Ghosh ?Sanskrit Sensitivities with reference to two modern Sanskrit > Lyrics?Vil?papa?cik? and R?jan?til?m?tam? *ibid* pp.153-160. > > Both the above authors themselves wrote many poems in Sanskrit. > > The most successful Sanskrit poet in twentieth century Bengal was ?r?j?va > Ny?yat?rtha whose books are available in print with the two or three > traditional dealers in Sanskritic books in Calcutta. > > In the nineties there were some attempts to start projects on modern > creative Sanskrit literature in some Universities of South Bengal and by > some interested persons. I cannot inform on their results. As far as I > remember Dr. Rita Chatterjee of the Jadavpur University was sometimes > engaged in research on twentieth century Sanskrit literature. Perhaps, herself > not a creative writer she looked informative to me. She might have brought > about some publications on the subject. > > Best > > DB > > > > > --- On *Thu, 2/6/11, Chris Clark * wrote: > > > From: Chris Clark > > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Contemporary Sanskrit poetry > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Thursday, 2 June, 2011, 4:57 AM > > > Dear colleagues, > > Is anyone able to recommend some good overviews of contemporary Sanskrit > poetry? > > Many thanks, > Chris Clark > PhD candidate, University of Sydney > > -- Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi Head, Dept of Darshanas, Yoganandacharya Bhavan, Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026. ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ????????? ??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ??????????????? ?????????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Mon Jun 6 15:41:47 2011 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 11 08:41:47 -0700 Subject: New publications Message-ID: <161227092708.23782.1542092395277024146.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2833 Lines: 113 dear Colleagues, Prof Seishi Karashima has asked me to forward the following information: My newest monograph, A Critical Edition of Lokak?ema's Translation of the A??as?hasrik? Praj??p?ramit? ???????, is now available as a downloadable PDF from our website: http://iriab.soka.ac.jp/orc/Publications/BPPB/pdf/BPPB-12.pdf The latest issue of the Annual Report of The International Research Institute for Advanced Buddhology at Soka University will be also soon available from our website: http://iriab.soka.ac.jp/orc/Publications/ARIRIAB/index_ARIRIAB.html This issue contains the following articles: Oskar von HIN?BER: Four Donations Made by Ma?galaha?sik?, Queen of Palola (Gilgit) [3 figures]: pp. 3-6 Peter SKILLING and Oskar von HIN?BER: An Epigraphical Buddhist Poem from Phanigiri (Andhrapradesh) from the Time of Rudrapuru?adatta [8 figures] : pp. 7-12 Harry FALK: The ?Split? Collection of Kharo??h? Texts [7 figures] : pp. 13-23 Noriyuki KUDO: The *Karmavibha?gopade?a*: A Transliteration of the Nepalese Manuscript A (3) : pp. 25-33 SAERJI: More Fragments of the *Ratnaketuparivarta *(2) [8 figures (9 fragments)] : pp. 35-57 Peter SKILLING: Note on the *Bhadrakalpika-s?tra *(II) : pp. 59-72 Georges-Jean PINAULT: The Buddhas of the Fortunate Aeon in Old Turkic and Tocharian texts : pp. 73-80 Tatsushi TAMAI: Transliterations of the Tocharian B *Ud?n?la?k?ra *Fragments in the Berlin Collection : pp. 81-125 DUAN Qing: Some Fragments of the *Sa?gh??a-s?tra *from the Xinjian Museum, Urumuqi [3 figures] : pp. 127-134 Giuliana MARTINI: A Large Question in a Small Place: The Transmission of the *Ratnak??a *(* K??yapaparivarta*) in Khotan : pp. 135-183 SAERJI: The Translations of the Khotanese Monk ??ladharma Preserved in the Tibetan bka? ?gyur : pp. 185-222 Haiyan Hu-von HIN?BER: Faxian?s (?? 342-423) Perception of India: Some New Interpretation of His *Fuguoji *??? [3 figures] : pp. 223-247 ?? ? [Akira YUYAMA]: ??????????????? ? ????????????? (Miscellanea Philologica Buddhica: Anecdotal Gleanings [III]: Robert Knox and the Island of La?k?) : pp. 249-258 ?? ? [Akira YUYAMA]: ????????????????? (Miscellanea Philologica Buddhica: Marginal Anecdotage [II]: Two Topics on the Mah?vastu-Avad?na) : pp. 259-266 Our other publications are also available as a downloadable PDF from our websites: http://iriab.soka.ac.jp/orc/Publications/BPPB/index_BPPB.html http://iriab.soka.ac.jp/orc/Publications/BLSF/index_BLSF.html -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeb2104 at COLUMBIA.EDU Mon Jun 6 23:14:07 2011 From: jeb2104 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Joel Bordeaux) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 11 19:14:07 -0400 Subject: fonts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092715.23782.15124233478741088236.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 597 Lines: 18 My apologies in advance if the answer to this question is terribly obvious, but what must I do so that posts to and from the list display properly (i.e. sans "...
 
Lars Martin..." and "... A=E1=B9=A3=E1=B9==ADas=C4=81hasrik=C4=81 Praj=C3=B1=C4=81p=C4=81ramit=C4=81 =E9=81=93=E8=A1==8C=E8=88=AC=E8=8B=A5=E7=B6=93=E6..." etc.)? With thanks for your patience, J. Joel Bordeaux Ph.D. candidate Department of Religion Columbia University jeb2104 at columbia.edu From lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO Mon Jun 6 19:00:49 2011 From: lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 11 21:00:49 +0200 Subject: kSemaziras ? Message-ID: <161227092711.23782.14250506964359004307.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 755 Lines: 31 Dear members of the list, I have come across an expression in the Kamasutra which leaves me completely dumbfounded. In KS 5.6.25, I find the following: ( anyaizca jalabrahma+kSemaziraH+praNItairbAhyapAnakairvA ). This seems to be a marginal comment. I am unable to come up with a translation of kSemaziras. Would anybody have a suggestion? Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse From: Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo - Norway Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 E-mail: lmfosse at getmail.no -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Jun 7 19:19:35 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 11 21:19:35 +0200 Subject: fonts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092718.23782.9974299216477447259.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 457 Lines: 13 I see that you're using Apple Mail (2.1084). Is this the latest version? I don't know *anything* about Macs. But Wikipedia suggests to me that the current version is 4, released in 2009. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_%28application%29 So check that first. Best, Dominik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Tue Jun 7 20:28:27 2011 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 11 22:28:27 +0200 Subject: fonts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092722.23782.5806717601404216443.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 955 Lines: 25 Am 07.06.2011 um 21:19 schrieb Dominik Wujastyk: > I see that you're using Apple Mail (2.1084). Is this the latest version? I don't know *anything* about Macs. But Wikipedia suggests to me that the current version is 4, released in 2009. > See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_%28application%29 The version of Apple Mail I use, right at this moment, is 4.5 (1084). The number in parentheses is an internal built number or something like that, I guess. One may try to switch the display format: e.g. highlight the message, then hit Alt-Cmd-U. After that the display should change. If not, you have to twiddle with the preferences. Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dfinnegan at WISC.EDU Wed Jun 8 02:21:29 2011 From: dfinnegan at WISC.EDU (Diana Finnegan) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 11 07:51:29 +0530 Subject: phala=?UTF-8?Q?=C5=9Bruti?= verses Message-ID: <161227092725.23782.6701626500038779202.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1405 Lines: 47 Dear McTomas, Therorise might be a bit of an overstatement word, but I did explore the implications of phala?rutis in my masters thesis on the ?rya Sa?gh??a s?tra, a Buddhist s?tra. Much of the s?tra itself can be read as an extended phala?ruti. I found very little on the topic in the literature that had been published at the time (2003). If you are interested, it has the rather long title of *Reading the *Sa?gh ??as?tra: Time, Narrative and the Ethical Formation of Persons *in a Mah?y?na Buddhist Text of Great Claims* and is available through the University of Wisconsin-Madison library. I can also direct you to an electronic copy if you contact me off-list. Warm regards, Damcho Diana Finnegan PhD, University of Wisconsin-Madison Independent Researcher > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 12:51:53 +1000 > From: McComas Taylor > Subject: phala=?iso-8859-2?Q?=B6ruti?= verses > > > Dear Colleagues > > Has anyone attempted to theorise phala=B6ruti verses. I have searched the > major databases but have been unable to find anything. > > Any guidance gratefully received > > With thanks in advance > > McComas > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shrimaitreya at GMAIL.COM Thu Jun 9 13:59:42 2011 From: shrimaitreya at GMAIL.COM ((Maitreya) Borayin Larios) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 11 15:59:42 +0200 Subject: Prabuddha Bharata N=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=B0?= 68 (1963) Message-ID: <161227092728.23782.807176649275599483.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 844 Lines: 26 Dear list, Would anyone have access to a copy of the "Prabuddha Bharata" N? 68 (July, 1963). This is the journal from the Advaita Ashrama. I am looking for a short article by M. P. Pandit entitled "Guru-Sishya Tradition" that appeared there (pp. 389-92). If anyone has access to it could you please send me a copy off-list? Further reading suggestions on the topic* guru?i?yasambhandha* are also welcomed. Thank you all. Best wishes, ______________________________ (Maitreya) Borayin Larios J?gerpfad 13 69118 Heidelberg Germany Mobile:(+49)1707366232 http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/mitarbeiter/larios/larios.php http://www.flickr.com/photos/shrimaitreya/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Fri Jun 10 19:18:34 2011 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 11 14:18:34 -0500 Subject: Query Message-ID: <161227092733.23782.13746594399970149780.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 230 Lines: 8 Does any one know -- and can give sources -- of an expression: "bilva? bilvena hanyat?m"?? The meaning is clear -- use a wood-apple to break another wood-apple. This proverb is found in the Artha??stra 9.2.8. Thanks. Patrick From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Fri Jun 10 21:48:16 2011 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 11 16:48:16 -0500 Subject: Query In-Reply-To: <20110610234518.17134y30r1i5b98g@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Message-ID: <161227092740.23782.512078678411719144.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 98 Lines: 6 Thanks to all who responded -- MBh 12.106.10 appears to be a parallel to Artha. Best, Patrick From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Fri Jun 10 15:09:38 2011 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 11 17:09:38 +0200 Subject: GRETIL update #389 (and change of address) Message-ID: <161227092730.23782.13120291704815218498.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 573 Lines: 29 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Visvaksena-Samhita __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm (PLEASE NOTE THE CHANGE OF ADDRESS.) From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Fri Jun 10 21:42:12 2011 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 11 23:42:12 +0200 Subject: Query In-Reply-To: <66119F76-9A07-455F-945C-B8414C326DFF@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <161227092735.23782.7468554705437188815.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 415 Lines: 15 This is similar to Mahaabhaarata 12.106:10d: bilva.m bilvena "saataya. Dominic Goodall ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient On 10-Jun-2011, at 9:18 PM, Patrick Olivelle wrote: > Does any one know -- and can give sources -- of an expression: "bilva? bilvena hanyat?m"?? The meaning is clear -- use a wood-apple to break another wood-apple. This proverb is found in the Artha??stra 9.2.8. > > Thanks. > > Patrick From straube at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE Fri Jun 10 21:45:18 2011 From: straube at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE (Martin Straube) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 11 23:45:18 +0200 Subject: Query In-Reply-To: <66119F76-9A07-455F-945C-B8414C326DFF@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <161227092738.23782.8559300854034335871.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 813 Lines: 40 Dear Patrick, There is another instance of that proverb in the Mbh (12.106.10): tata? suh?dbala? labdhv? mantrayitv? sumantritam / antarair bhedayitv?r?n bilva? bilvena ??taya // Best regards Martin Straube Zitat von Patrick Olivelle : > Does any one know -- and can give sources -- of an expression: > "bilva? bilvena hanyat?m"?? The meaning is clear -- use a wood-apple > to break another wood-apple. This proverb is found in the > Artha??stra 9.2.8. > > Thanks. > > Patrick -- Dr. Martin Straube Martin-Luther-Universit?t Halle-Wittenberg Seminar f?r Indologie Emil-Abderhalden-Str. 9 D-06099 Halle (Saale) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Philipps-Universit?t Marburg Fachgebiet Indologie und Tibetologie Deutschhausstr. 12 D-35032 Marburg www.uni-marburg.de/indologie From michael.zimmermann at UNI-HAMBURG.DE Sun Jun 12 07:25:53 2011 From: michael.zimmermann at UNI-HAMBURG.DE (Michael Zimmermann) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 11 09:25:53 +0200 Subject: New International Master Program in Buddhist Studies at Hamburg University Message-ID: <161227092743.23782.9092175492895753103.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1297 Lines: 40 Dear Colleagues, recently a new two-year Master Program in Buddhist Studies has been approved at Hamburg University (Asien-Afrika-Institut). Requirements for admission comprise, among others, reading skills in at least one of the following languages: Sanskrit, Tibetan, Chinese, or Japanese. The new Master Program is added to a range of already running Master Programs focusing on classical India, Tibet (focusing on Buddhism), China and Japan. Teaching language of the new Master in Buddhist Studies will be English (for the focus China and Japan German will also be needed). Unfortunately time is short and applications for admission are due already on July 15, 2011. We encourage any students who might be interested to apply. For more on our English-taught Master Programs see our website: http://www.aai.uni-hamburg.de/indtib/MA_e.html For Buddhist Studies in particular see: http://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg.de/index.php?id=74&L=1 Best wishes Michael Zimmermann ------------------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Michael Zimmermann Universit?t Hamburg, Abt. Indien und Tibet Email: Michael.Zimmermann at uni-hamburg.de http://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg.de/ http://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg.de/index.php?id=88&L=1#c942 From vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET Sun Jun 12 20:58:17 2011 From: vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 11 16:58:17 -0400 Subject: origins of name Pancha Message-ID: <161227092746.23782.12511024376180898718.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 749 Lines: 19 Dear List members: I am passing on an inquiry from a colleague who is not a member of this list. You can reply to me on or off list and I will forward your responses to him. Thank you. Dan Lusthaus ---Query---- What is the origin of the Indian title/surname Pancharya? I am interested in the etymology and meaning of the name. If it derives from pa?ca + ?rya, what does that signify? A legend of five Nobles, or a clan with five noble qualities (e.g., something like pa?casa?sk?ra -- the initiation undergone by ?r?vai?nava Brahmins)? Any light would be appreciated. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Jun 14 21:24:11 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 11 17:24:11 -0400 Subject: Sabaka (fire demon) Message-ID: <161227092750.23782.6994284225910344100.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2012 Lines: 26 There is a film entitled Sabaka (alternate title The Hindu), about an young mahout, an Indian General Pollegar, played by Boris Karloff, and the cult of a fire demon named Sabaka (a fraudulent commercial enterprise kept going by agents who burn the houses of people who refuse to donate). In the film the demon's name is pronounced SabAkA, but there is also a Devanagari title SabAka, which in a modern Indo-Aryan language would presumably be pronounced SabAk. If have looked at several of the online dictionaries in the Digital South Asia Library and found no such word in Sanskrit, Hindi, Telugu, and Tamil (it was filmed in South India), plus Burrow and Turner's comparative dictionaries. Has anyone heard of such a demon, or a word from which his or her name might be derived? I cannot comment on the value of the movie, since the disk degenerated at the third track and I sent it back to Netflix for a replacement. Other early Boomers may remember the section in the Andy's Gang TV series with Gunga Ram the elephant boy, played by boy actor Nino Marcel. Apparently he had built up such a following that a feature movie was thought profitable. Perhaps they hoped he would be the second Sabu (Sabu Dastagir), who was such a star that his early movies gave him top billing above his white adult costars. There was another early TV series set in India, Tales of the 77th Bengal Lancers, a few of which can be found on DVD. It took me hours of net-surfing to clarify my vague memories of these, but it was worth it for the fun of nostalgia. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Jun 14 22:56:31 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 11 18:56:31 -0400 Subject: Sabaka (fire demon) In-Reply-To: <833DAF6D-6FE0-467E-8601-74A72D1E76D1@uni-bonn.de> Message-ID: <161227092757.23782.3009659277582449366.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1862 Lines: 41 Thanks for the tip, Peter. Allen From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Peter Wyzlic Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 6:05 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sabaka (fire demon) Am 14.06.2011 um 23:24 schrieb Thrasher, Allen: There is a film entitled Sabaka (alternate title The Hindu), about an young mahout, an Indian General Pollegar, played by Boris Karloff, and the cult of a fire demon named Sabaka (a fraudulent commercial enterprise kept going by agents who burn the houses of people who refuse to donate). In the film the demon's name is pronounced SabAkA, but there is also a Devanagari title SabAka, which in a modern Indo-Aryan language would presumably be pronounced SabAk. If have looked at several of the online dictionaries in the Digital South Asia Library and found no such word in Sanskrit, Hindi, Telugu, and Tamil (it was filmed in South India), plus Burrow and Turner's comparative dictionaries. Has anyone heard of such a demon, or a word from which his or her name might be derived? I cannot comment on the value of the movie, since the disk degenerated at the third track and I sent it back to Netflix for a replacement. You may view or download it from the Internet Archive: URL: It seems the film is in the public domain, now. I don't know about Sabaka. According to the credits the director and producer Frank Ferrin wrote also the screenplay. The name of the demon and the cult are perhaps an invention of the author? All the best Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Tue Jun 14 22:04:44 2011 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 11 00:04:44 +0200 Subject: Sabaka (fire demon) In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F1AB150B64D@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227092753.23782.6404404557232260365.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1648 Lines: 31 Am 14.06.2011 um 23:24 schrieb Thrasher, Allen: > There is a film entitled Sabaka (alternate title The Hindu), about an young mahout, an Indian General Pollegar, played by Boris Karloff, and the cult of a fire demon named Sabaka (a fraudulent commercial enterprise kept going by agents who burn the houses of people who refuse to donate). In the film the demon's name is pronounced SabAkA, but there is also a Devanagari title SabAka, which in a modern Indo-Aryan language would presumably be pronounced SabAk. If have looked at several of the online dictionaries in the Digital South Asia Library and found no such word in Sanskrit, Hindi, Telugu, and Tamil (it was filmed in South India), plus Burrow and Turner's comparative dictionaries. > > Has anyone heard of such a demon, or a word from which his or her name might be derived? > > I cannot comment on the value of the movie, since the disk degenerated at the third track and I sent it back to Netflix for a replacement. You may view or download it from the Internet Archive: URL: It seems the film is in the public domain, now. I don't know about Sabaka. According to the credits the director and producer Frank Ferrin wrote also the screenplay. The name of the demon and the cult are perhaps an invention of the author? All the best Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA Wed Jun 15 13:50:39 2011 From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 11 09:50:39 -0400 Subject: E-mail address Message-ID: <161227092761.23782.6451361144841315144.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 342 Lines: 17 Dear all, Does anybody have a recent e-mail address for Stefan Baums? Please reply hors liste! Many thanks! Stella -- Stella Sandahl ssandahl at sympatico.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI Thu Jun 16 09:39:38 2011 From: klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI (Klaus Karttunen) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 11 12:39:38 +0300 Subject: Sources of the moth and lamp imagery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092768.23782.1944658922297509888.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1339 Lines: 35 Dear Greg, as patanga this is found in the Ramayana 3, 27, 13, Mbh. 2, 39, 19 & 3, 2, 65 & 5, 52, 12, etc., as salabha in Ramayana 3, 13, 36, Mbh 2, 16, 10 & 17, 15, etc., in Asvaghosa, Bhasa, etc, in Pali Udana p. 72 (PTS ed.). See my paper ??alabha, pata?ga, etc. Locusts, Crickets, and Moths in Sanskrit Literature?, The Second International Conference of Indian Studies, Proceedings. Cracow Indological Studies 4?5. 2003, 303?316. Best, Klaus Klaus Karttunen Professor of South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674 Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094 Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi On Jun 16, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Gregory Bailey wrote: > Dear List, > > Can anyone enlighten me as to the earliest reference to the image of the deluded moth being attracted by the lamp and then burnt in its flame. Bhart?hari (V? 3, 82) gives an instance of it. > > Any help would be appreciated as another colleague has requested information about this as the image is used in nationalist posters of the thirties. > > Thanks, > > Greg Bailey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Thu Jun 16 18:38:14 2011 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 11 13:38:14 -0500 Subject: Sources of the moth and lamp imagery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092775.23782.6642513457030985923.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1848 Lines: 59 I am not sure whether this is one of the more ancient places (depends on when you date the text), but the image is found in the Artha??stra 7.15.14. Patrick Olivelle On Jun 16, 2011, at 1:30 PM, George Thompson wrote: > There is also that nice, well-known simile at BhG 11.29: > > "Like the moths [patangaah] that rush frantically to the burning > flame, and to their destruction, so these worlds rush in a frenzy into > your mouths, to their destruction." > > Best, > > George Thompson > > On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 5:39 AM, Klaus Karttunen > wrote: >> Dear Greg, >> as patanga this is found in the Ramayana 3, 27, 13, Mbh. 2, 39, 19 & 3, 2, >> 65 & 5, 52, 12, etc., as salabha in Ramayana 3, 13, 36, Mbh 2, 16, 10 & 17, >> 15, etc., in Asvaghosa, Bhasa, etc, in Pali Udana p. 72 (PTS ed.). See my >> paper >> ??alabha, pata?ga, etc. Locusts, Crickets, and Moths in Sanskrit >> Literature?, The Second International Conference of Indian Studies, >> Proceedings. Cracow Indological Studies 4?5. 2003, 303?316. >> >> Best, >> Klaus >> Klaus Karttunen >> Professor of South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies >> Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures >> PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) >> 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND >> Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674 >> Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094 >> Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi >> >> >> >> On Jun 16, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Gregory Bailey wrote: >> >> Dear List, >> >> Can anyone enlighten me as to the earliest reference to the image of the >> deluded moth being attracted by the lamp and then burnt in its flame. >> Bhart?hari (V? 3, 82) gives an instance of it. >> >> Any help would be appreciated as another colleague has requested information >> about this as the image is used in nationalist posters of the thirties. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Greg Bailey >> From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Thu Jun 16 18:30:20 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 11 14:30:20 -0400 Subject: Sources of the moth and lamp imagery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092771.23782.9998340398318865691.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1555 Lines: 52 There is also that nice, well-known simile at BhG 11.29: "Like the moths [patangaah] that rush frantically to the burning flame, and to their destruction, so these worlds rush in a frenzy into your mouths, to their destruction." Best, George Thompson On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 5:39 AM, Klaus Karttunen wrote: > Dear Greg, > as patanga this is found in the Ramayana 3, 27, 13, Mbh. 2, 39, 19 & 3, 2, > 65 & 5, 52, 12, etc., as salabha in Ramayana 3, 13, 36, Mbh 2, 16, 10 & 17, > 15, etc., in Asvaghosa, Bhasa, etc, in Pali Udana p. 72 (PTS ed.). See my > paper > ??alabha, pata?ga, etc. Locusts, Crickets, and Moths in Sanskrit > Literature?, The Second International Conference of Indian Studies, > Proceedings. Cracow Indological Studies 4?5. 2003, 303?316. > > Best, > Klaus > Klaus Karttunen > Professor of South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies > Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures > PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) > 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND > Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674 > Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094 > Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi > > > > On Jun 16, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Gregory Bailey wrote: > > Dear List, > > Can anyone enlighten me as to the earliest reference to the image of the > deluded moth being attracted by the lamp and then burnt in its flame. > ?Bhart?hari (V? 3, 82) gives an instance of it. > > Any help would be appreciated as another colleague has requested information > about this as the image is used in nationalist posters of the thirties. > > Thanks, > > Greg Bailey > From Greg.Bailey at LATROBE.EDU.AU Thu Jun 16 08:38:04 2011 From: Greg.Bailey at LATROBE.EDU.AU (Gregory Bailey) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 11 18:38:04 +1000 Subject: Sources of the moth and lamp imagery Message-ID: <161227092764.23782.2007036439723562976.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 550 Lines: 14 Dear List, Can anyone enlighten me as to the earliest reference to the image of the deluded moth being attracted by the lamp and then burnt in its flame. Bhart?hari (V? 3, 82) gives an instance of it. Any help would be appreciated as another colleague has requested information about this as the image is used in nationalist posters of the thirties. Thanks, Greg Bailey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gerard.fussman at COLLEGE-DE-FRANCE.FR Sat Jun 18 10:09:12 2011 From: gerard.fussman at COLLEGE-DE-FRANCE.FR (Gerard Fussman) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 11 12:09:12 +0200 Subject: colloquium in Roma Message-ID: <161227092779.23782.11380706695851943074.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4387 Lines: 132 This is to announce the Seechac Colloquium in Roma next october. G?rard Fussman. SEECHAC International Colloquium Rome, Museo Nazionale d'Arte Orientale 'Giuseppe Tucci', October 10th and 11th, 2011 Politics and religions in the Himalayas and Central Asia. The political and religious expression of sovereignty in the Himalayas and Central Asia: rituals, texts, representations and institutions, from antiquity till now. (second program subject to last minute changes) Monday October 10th 2011 9h00-9h15 Welcoming of the participants, presentation of badges and documents. 9h15- 9h40 Opening of the colloquium. Welcoming speeches by Dr Luigi La Rocca, Superintendent of MNAO, Dr Massimiliano A. Polichetti, Prof. Gerard Fussman and Prof. Anna Maria Quagliotti. 9h40-10h00 Keynote by Jacques Gi?s, President of Mus?e Guimet. 10h00-10h25 Laura Giuliano (Roma): Oeso and the King. 10h35-11h00 Pause 11h00-11h25 Harry Falk (Berlin): The chronologies used in Indo-Scythian, Indo-Parthian and Kushan times in Greater Gandhara: a synopsis with new material. 11h35-12h00 Anna Filigenzi (Napoli): Praxis and orthopraxis in pre-medieval Buddhism: a glimpse into the relationship between lay and religious power. 12h10-12h35 Zafar Paiman (Kabul and Paris): Le monast?re de Tepe Narenj: un t?moignage de l'art "hephthalo-bouddhique". 12h45-14h30 Lunch pause 14h30-14h55 Katsumi Tanabe (Tokyo): Iconographical study of a limestone Buddhist relief allegedly unearthed in Northern Afghanistan. 15h05-15h30 Erika Forte (Wien): Ensuring sovereignty: the Buddhist legitimization of the Kingdom of Khotan. 15h40-16h05 Ciro Lo Muzio (Roma): Bird symbolism in Central Asian headgears. 16h15-16h40 Pause 16h40-17h05 Arcangela Santoro (Roma): The universal sovereignty of the Buddha in Kizil. 17h15-17h40 Lore Sander (Berlin): Donors in Kizil caves. 17h50-18h15 Giovanna Lombardo (Roma): At the origins of power and sovereignty: the Late Bronze Age necropolis of Kangurttut (Southern Tadjikistan). 18h25-18h50 Margherita Mantovani (Roma): La Religione della Luce nella lettera ebraica del prete Gianni. Tuesday October 11th 2011 9h00-9h25 Bruno Genito (Napoli): Scythic kurgans and kingship. 9h35-10h10 Isabelle Charleux (Paris): Rois et reines dans les portraits des souverains mongols du XIIIe au XVIIIe si?cle. 10h15-10h40 Patrizia Cannata (Roma): Religions as a tool for political control and national identity's statement in the Uyghur empire. 10h50-11h15 Pause 11h15-11h40 Paola Mortari Vergara Caffarelli (Roma): Pelden Lhamo, The protective goddess of the Dala? Lamas in Tibetan architecture and art. 11h50-12h10 David Pritzker (Oxford): Rin chen bzang po and the treasures of mKha rtse. 12h10-12h35 Charles Ramble (Paris): How to be a good king: Tibetan treatises on monarchy and statecraft. 12h45-14h30 Lunch pause 14h30-14h55 Hubert Feiglstorfer (Wien): Structural and territorial organization of the early Tibetan polity (VIIth-IXth c.). 15h05-15h30 Christiane Kalantari (Wien): Iconography of sovereignty and religio-political power in early Western Tibet 15h40-16h05 Christian Jahoda (Wien): Festival and ritual tradition in key religio-political centers of historical Western Tibet (mNga'ris skor gsum). 16h15-16h40 Pause 16h40-17h05 Marialaura Di Mattia (Roma): The religious factor as a political tool in the establishment of the Western Himalayan kingdoms 17h15-17h40 Erberto Lo Bue (Milano): The main image in Gtsug lag khang or Rgyaltse and its religious and political meaning. 17h50-18h10 Lara Maconi (Paris): Le roi-lama de l'ancien royaume bouddhiste de Muli. 18h20-18h50 General discussion and closure of the colloquium. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU Sun Jun 19 05:15:08 2011 From: slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU (Lindquist, Steven) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 11 05:15:08 +0000 Subject: SMU Conference Announcement, Sept. 24th, 2011 Message-ID: <161227092783.23782.7208583824706897437.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 908 Lines: 22 Please pardon x-posting. I wanted to draw your attention to SMU's annual S. Asia conference (in conjunction with a local non-profit, the South Asia Research and Information Institute). On Sept. 24th, 2011, we will host an all-day conference entitled "Alternative Ramayanas" at SMU in Dallas. Registration (which is free) will be announced at the end of the summer, but should you be considering attending and in need of information, please feel free to contact me off-list. For a list of previous conference topics, please see www.sarii.org Presenters at this year's conference are: Philip Lutgendorf, Paula Richman, V. Narayana Rao, Phyllis Granoff, and Marshall Clark. My best, s STEVEN LINDQUIST, PH.D. DIRECTOR OF ASIAN STUDIES ASSISTANT PROFESSOR _____________ Department of Religious Studies Southern Methodist University PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275 http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui From ambapradeep at GMAIL.COM Sun Jun 19 05:21:21 2011 From: ambapradeep at GMAIL.COM (amba kulkarni) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 11 10:51:21 +0530 Subject: Announcement of a book publication In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092786.23782.16007690817158120784.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1926 Lines: 50 Dear list, This is an announcement of a book entitled *Bh?skara and Pi?gala* *Relevance of their Mathematics in the Present Context**Author: Dr Padmanabha Rao Anantapur.* Publisher: LAP LAMBERT Academic Publishing. The abstract of the content is: "The book deals with the Methods of Bh?skara and Pi?gala, the focus being on their relevance today. The Proofs and Concepts are explained and compared with the Current Methods with reference to the following topics: The Application of Rules of Three and Five to similar triangles and Gas Equation PV=RT, pi as a Limit of an Infinite sequence, Radian Measure, Limit as a sum, Bh?skara's Algorithm for manipulating infinitesimals, Geometric proof of dsin(x) = cos(x)dx, Mean value Theorem, Use of Binomial Theorem to find the root of any order, Pythagoras Theorem by Euclid and Bh?skara, Newton's Fluxions and Bh?skara's Algorithm - a comparison, Some ingenious geometrical constructions, Heron's formula as a special case of that of Brahmagupta, Pi?gala's Combinatorial Mathematics, Binary System, Fibonacci Sequence and Pascal's Triangle as an off-shoot of Prosody, Approximations to sine and arcsine and Primitive ideas of Logarithm. The students, teachers, research scholars and lovers of mathematics are entitled to the traditional knowledge which will benefit them and inspire them to do research and produce monumental works. Cover page design depicts Pythagoras theorem at a glance!" With regards, Amba Kulkarni -- ? ?? ?????: ?????? ????? ??????: ll Let noble thoughts come to us from every side. - Rig Veda, I-89-i. Reader and Head Department of Sanskrit Studies University of Hyderabad Prof. C.R. Rao Road Hyderabad-500 046 (91) 040 23133802(off) http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in/scl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM Wed Jun 22 03:22:10 2011 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 11 04:22:10 +0100 Subject: Tibeten~Sanskrit Idiom Query Message-ID: <161227092790.23782.16389841600922613883.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 429 Lines: 13 Dear Tibetanist Colleagues, I have the expression "nyan-du mi-btub/ma-btub" which occurs about a dozen or so times in the Kanjur, particularly in the 'Dul-ba section. Has anybody come across or can suggest a reliable / attested Sanskrit origin for this ~ contextually it seems to mean "disregard / ignore" something said. I have looked in all the obvious sources, but cannot find anything. Many thanks, Stephen Hodge From rdavidson at FAIRFIELD.EDU Wed Jun 22 16:22:12 2011 From: rdavidson at FAIRFIELD.EDU (Ronald Davidson) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 11 12:22:12 -0400 Subject: Tibeten~Sanskrit Idiom Query In-Reply-To: <0650AC1540A64E499CA855D314CEEFC1@zen> Message-ID: <161227092797.23782.10512974592961975836.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1215 Lines: 33 Dear Stephen and colleagues, Lokesh Chandra's Tibetan-Sanskrit Dictionary, Supplementary Volume, p. 683a lists avidheya as an equivalent attested from the A????gah?daya 1.1.34, although this may be of very limited application in the Vinaya context. As Dorji Wangchuk just mentioned, this is a form that suggests an injunctive force, and it may be worthy of noting that mi btub appears to be equivalent to abhavya in the Mah?vyutpatti 9135 : abhavyo haritv?ya : sngon por 'gyur du mi rung ba 'am mi btub. Ron Davidson > From: Stephen Hodge > Reply-To: Stephen Hodge > Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 04:22:10 +0100 > To: > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tibeten~Sanskrit Idiom Query > > Dear Tibetanist Colleagues, > > I have the expression "nyan-du mi-btub/ma-btub" which occurs about a dozen > or so times in the Kanjur, particularly in the 'Dul-ba section. Has anybody > come across or can suggest a reliable / attested Sanskrit origin for this ~ > contextually it seems to mean "disregard / ignore" something said. I have > looked in all the obvious sources, but cannot find anything. > > Many thanks, > Stephen Hodge From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM Wed Jun 22 17:04:27 2011 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 11 18:04:27 +0100 Subject: Tibeten~Sanskrit Idiom Query Message-ID: <161227092804.23782.2839947802692577300.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1109 Lines: 35 Dear all, Thanks for the suggestions so far. However, I am not sure that these fit the context. I am assuming something here like "na ?rotu? + ?aknoti" (or similar with some form of ?ak*). The context is this: the text is giving advice to laymen about dealing with monks who have distorted the Vinaya, claiming that the Buddha actually allowed various forbidden luxury items. The laymen are advised to question these monks closely about their behaviour and gives the responses of the monks likely to be encountered. The text goes on to say of the laymen: gal te tshig nyan du mi btub pa de dag ni yang dag pa'i mdo sde shes pa yin no || FYI, a Chinese version parallels the first clause with: ????????, evidently reading my problem phrase as "don't know" etc. The contrasting position immediately follows mentioning laymen who are fooled by these bad monks and accept their explanations, with predictably dire consequences: len par byed pa . . . de dag ni sems can dmyal ba pa yin par rig par bya ste | I wonder this might prompt any further suggestions ? ? Best wishes, Stephen Hodge From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Jun 22 16:45:26 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 11 18:45:26 +0200 Subject: Tibeten~Sanskrit Idiom Query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092801.23782.15025698520515067068.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2352 Lines: 73 It's at my elbow, so A????gah?daya 1.1.34: tyajed ?rta? bhi?agbh?pair dvi??a? te??? dvi?a? dvi?am/ h?nopakara?am vyagram avidheya? gat?yu?am // 34 // >?From my Roots tr.: One should not accept a patient who is hated by physicians and kings alike, or who has long hated them. Nor should one accept a person who does not have any medical necessities, who is distracted, unbiddable [avidheyam], or whose life has run out. "dvi?a? dvi?am" is, I believe, an intensive reduplication of the rare indeclinable gerund form in -am. Macdonell paragraph 166. Opinions? On avidheya, the commentator Aru?adatta says "avidheya? - bhi?aja?, tad?j??? yo na karoti, tam api tyajet" i..e., who doesn't do as he's told. Hem?dri says, "avidheya? - vaidyasy?nadh?nam" i.e., not obedient to the doctor. Best, Dominik Best, Dominik On 22 June 2011 18:22, Ronald Davidson wrote: > Dear Stephen and colleagues, > > Lokesh Chandra's Tibetan-Sanskrit Dictionary, Supplementary Volume, p. 683a > lists avidheya as an equivalent attested from the A????gah?daya 1.1.34, > although this may be of very limited application in the Vinaya context. > > As Dorji Wangchuk just mentioned, this is a form that suggests an > injunctive > force, and it may be worthy of noting that mi btub appears to be equivalent > to abhavya in the Mah?vyutpatti 9135 : abhavyo haritv?ya : sngon por 'gyur > du mi rung ba 'am mi btub. > > Ron Davidson > > > > From: Stephen Hodge > > Reply-To: Stephen Hodge > > Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 04:22:10 +0100 > > To: > > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tibeten~Sanskrit Idiom Query > > > > Dear Tibetanist Colleagues, > > > > I have the expression "nyan-du mi-btub/ma-btub" which occurs about a > dozen > > or so times in the Kanjur, particularly in the 'Dul-ba section. Has > anybody > > come across or can suggest a reliable / attested Sanskrit origin for this > ~ > > contextually it seems to mean "disregard / ignore" something said. I > have > > looked in all the obvious sources, but cannot find anything. > > > > Many thanks, > > Stephen Hodge > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dorji.wangchuk at UNI-HAMBURG.DE Wed Jun 22 16:01:42 2011 From: dorji.wangchuk at UNI-HAMBURG.DE (Dorji Wangchuk) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 11 00:01:42 +0800 Subject: Tibeten~Sanskrit Idiom Query In-Reply-To: <0650AC1540A64E499CA855D314CEEFC1@zen> Message-ID: <161227092793.23782.15799111017419775060.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1473 Lines: 33 Dear Stephen, dear colleagues, Assuming that the Sanskrit equivalent of *nyan du mi/ma btub pa* is not recorded in Negi?s Tibetan-Sanskrit Dictionary, which I do not have at hand at the moment and which you may have already consulted, I am tempted to suggest *a?rava??ya* or *a?r?vya,* that is, not in the sense of *inaudible* but rather in the sense of *unfit to be heard* (MW, s.v. a?r?vya). Compare also MW (s.v. ?rava??ya), which has also the meaning of *worth hearing.* The adjective in Tibetan seems to mean precisely *unworthy of hearing or listening to.* Best wishes, Dorji _________________________ Prof. Dr. Dorji Wangchuk Universit?t Hamburg Asien-Afrika-Institut Abteilung f?r Kultur & Geschichte Indiens & Tibets Alsterterrasse 1 D-20354 Hamburg Tel.: +49-40-42838-3383 Fax: +49-40-42838-6944 On 22.06.2011, at 11:22, Stephen Hodge wrote: > Dear Tibetanist Colleagues, > > I have the expression "nyan-du mi-btub/ma-btub" which occurs about a dozen or so times in the Kanjur, particularly in the 'Dul-ba section. Has anybody come across or can suggest a reliable / attested Sanskrit origin for this ~ contextually it seems to mean "disregard / ignore" something said. I have looked in all the obvious sources, but cannot find anything. > > Many thanks, > Stephen Hodge -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andra.kleb at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Wed Jun 22 22:35:39 2011 From: andra.kleb at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (Andrey Klebanov) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 11 00:35:39 +0200 Subject: Tibeten~Sanskrit Idiom Query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092808.23782.4952642320689156738.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3008 Lines: 74 just to follow up briefly on the A????gah?daya-issue. the tibetan translation does, in fact, read nyan du mi btub, on which Vogel's edition (p.74) notes: -- avidheya "disobedient" has been paraphrized by nyan du mi btub, which literally means "unable to obey". -- Aru?adatta's commentary (s. Dominik's mail), which seems to be a literal quote from Candrananda's Pad?rthacandik? runs thus in the tibetan translation of the latter (rather unspectacularly): nyan du mi btub pa ni sman pa'i bsgo ba mi byed pa gang yin pa de yang spang par bya'o best, Andrey On 22.06.2011, at 18:45, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > It's at my elbow, so > > A????gah?daya 1.1.34: > > tyajed ?rta? bhi?agbh?pair dvi??a? te??? dvi?a? dvi?am/ > h?nopakara?am vyagram avidheya? gat?yu?am // 34 // > > From my Roots tr.: > One should not accept a patient who is hated by physicians and kings alike, or who has long hated them. Nor should one accept a person who does not have any medical necessities, who is distracted, unbiddable [avidheyam], or whose life has run out. > > "dvi?a? dvi?am" is, I believe, an intensive reduplication of the rare indeclinable gerund form in -am. Macdonell paragraph 166. Opinions? > > On avidheya, the commentator Aru?adatta says "avidheya? - bhi?aja?, tad?j??? yo na karoti, tam api tyajet" i..e., who doesn't do as he's told. Hem?dri says, "avidheya? - vaidyasy?nadh?nam" i.e., not obedient to the doctor. > > > Best, > Dominik > > > > Best, > Dominik > > > On 22 June 2011 18:22, Ronald Davidson wrote: > Dear Stephen and colleagues, > > Lokesh Chandra's Tibetan-Sanskrit Dictionary, Supplementary Volume, p. 683a > lists avidheya as an equivalent attested from the A????gah?daya 1.1.34, > although this may be of very limited application in the Vinaya context. > > As Dorji Wangchuk just mentioned, this is a form that suggests an injunctive > force, and it may be worthy of noting that mi btub appears to be equivalent > to abhavya in the Mah?vyutpatti 9135 : abhavyo haritv?ya : sngon por 'gyur > du mi rung ba 'am mi btub. > > Ron Davidson > > > > From: Stephen Hodge > > Reply-To: Stephen Hodge > > Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 04:22:10 +0100 > > To: > > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tibeten~Sanskrit Idiom Query > > > > Dear Tibetanist Colleagues, > > > > I have the expression "nyan-du mi-btub/ma-btub" which occurs about a dozen > > or so times in the Kanjur, particularly in the 'Dul-ba section. Has anybody > > come across or can suggest a reliable / attested Sanskrit origin for this ~ > > contextually it seems to mean "disregard / ignore" something said. I have > > looked in all the obvious sources, but cannot find anything. > > > > Many thanks, > > Stephen Hodge > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM Thu Jun 23 07:30:35 2011 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 11 08:30:35 +0100 Subject: Tibeten~Sanskrit Idiom Query Message-ID: <161227092812.23782.16925338363005562557.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1194 Lines: 27 Thinking further last night, I conclude that Dominik's proposal, with Tibetan confirmed by Andrey, must be the underlying term. According to the reverse index to Lokesh Chandra's Tib-Skt lexicon, "nyan mi btub pa" is included somewhere in there, but it is well hidden since it does not turn up under any of the Tibetan components as far as I can see. However, the A????gah?daya was one of his sources. It would have been nice to have another attestation, however. I also think that "avidheya" accounts for the Chinese version which must have read "avij?eya" or similar, probably via a Pkt form, which would be a typical misreading for my Chinese source. In fact, this was exactly the problem I was trying to account for. The probability of an underlying "avidheya" is corroborated by the next part of the Tibetan text, since I note also that the form "vidheya" was used inter alia for "khas len-pa" which is close enough to the converse "len-par-byed-pa" in my text. This all just goes to show how retroverting Tibetan to Sanskrit can be fraught with difficulties for less common words and phrases. Anyway, many thanks to everybody for the suggestions ! Stephen Hodge From jwn3y at CMS.MAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU Thu Jun 23 21:04:47 2011 From: jwn3y at CMS.MAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU (John William Nemec) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 11 17:04:47 -0400 Subject: publication announcement Message-ID: <161227092814.23782.11752925231178828904.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 774 Lines: 27 Dear Colleagues, I am pleased to be able to announce the publication of the following volume: John Nemec, _The Ubiquitous "Siva: Somaananda's "Sivad.r.s.ti and His Tantric Interlocutors_, New York: Oxford University Press, 2011. ISBN 978-0-19-979546-8 x + 436 pages The book includes a long introduction, a critical edition, and an annotated translation of the first 3 chapters (of 7) of the "Sivad.r.s.ti, along with all the related passages of Utpaladeva's commentary. Cheers, John __________________________________ John Nemec, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Indian Religions and South Asian Studies Dept. of Religious Studies University of Virginia 323 Gibson Hall / 1540 Jefferson Park Avenue Charlottesville, VA 22903 (USA) nemec at virginia.edu +1-434-924-6716 From hwtull at MSN.COM Thu Jun 23 22:54:31 2011 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 11 18:54:31 -0400 Subject: Sanskrit Grammar Books In-Reply-To: <9A782087CAED4A33865DEBA8CA1DCC7C@zen> Message-ID: <161227092817.23782.638870039300643391.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 457 Lines: 14 I am doing some work involving early Sanskrit Grammars (my interest is in those written in English). I have been able to access quite a few, but the earliest ones--Colebrooke's, A Grammar of the Sanskrit Language (1805) and Carey's A Grammar of the Sungskrit Language (1804)--have thus far escaped me. Does anyone know of electronic versions of these volumes residing in some accessible location? Thanks for the help. Herman Tull Princeton, NJ From rrocher at SAS.UPENN.EDU Fri Jun 24 01:00:21 2011 From: rrocher at SAS.UPENN.EDU (Rosane Rocher) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 11 21:00:21 -0400 Subject: Sanskrit Grammar Books In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092823.23782.8186508863252226808.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 982 Lines: 25 I don't know of electronic copies - hard copies are, of course, available in the British Library. Note, however, that Colebrooke's incomplete grammar was published first, in 1805, and was already printed in 1804 as shown on his own pre-publication, preface-less copy in the BL. Carey's grammar came out second, in 1806. Forster's, the third of three Sanskrit grammars that were under preparation at the same time in Calcutta, followed in 1810. Rosane Rocher On 6/23/11 6:54 PM, Herman Tull wrote: > I am doing some work involving early Sanskrit Grammars (my interest is > in those written in English). I have been able to access quite a few, > but the earliest ones--Colebrooke's, A Grammar of the Sanskrit > Language (1805) and Carey's A Grammar of the Sungskrit Language > (1804)--have thus far escaped me. Does anyone know of electronic > versions of these volumes residing in some accessible location? > > Thanks for the help. > > Herman Tull > Princeton, NJ From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Jun 24 07:37:52 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 11 09:37:52 +0200 Subject: dvi.sa.m dvi.sam In-Reply-To: <25163026.3067.1308823513724.JavaMail.root@vms170031> Message-ID: <161227092826.23782.12371004532368036784.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 850 Lines: 23 Many thanks to George Cardona and Gary Tubb for their learned corrections and clarifications on the "dvi?am dvi?am" issue. Dominik ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Date: 23 June 2011 12:05 Subject: dvi.sa.m dvi.sam To: wujastyk at gmail.com Dear Dominik, When you suggest taking dvi?a? dvi?am as an iterated gerund with -am, I suppose you mean the type accounted for by P??ini's *?bh?k??ye ?amul ca* (3.4.22). However, this would then be *dve?a? dve?am*, like *bhoja? bhojam*. I suggest that the phrase in your text has iteration as accounted for by *nityav?psayo?* and means 'every single one who hates them'. Regards, George -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Jun 24 07:45:08 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 11 09:45:08 +0200 Subject: Sanskrit Grammar Books In-Reply-To: <20110623233345.GC82976@proliant.indica-et-buddhica.org> Message-ID: <161227092829.23782.782281935864537160.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1921 Lines: 69 The second edition of Colebrooke's edition of the Amarakosa was published in Serampore in 1825. The title page reads: Kosha or Dictionary of the Sungskrita Language by Umura Singha with an English Interpretation and Annotations. with the vowels in the Skt words italicized. There's a digitized copy of this in the Digital Library of India. I don't know the date of the first edition. Best, Dominik On 24 June 2011 01:33, Richard MAHONEY wrote: > Dear Herman, > > On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 06:54:31PM -0400, Herman Tull wrote: > > I am doing some work involving early Sanskrit Grammars (my interest is in > > those written in English). I have been able to access quite a few, but > the > > earliest ones--Colebrooke's, A Grammar of the Sanskrit Language (1805) > and > > Carey's A Grammar of the Sungskrit Language (1804)--have thus far escaped > > me. Does anyone know of electronic versions of these volumes residing in > > some accessible location? > > Although not exactly what you are after you may find the following > helpful: > > Personal Name: Amarasi?ha. > > Main Title: Kosha, or dictionary of the Sanskrit language, by Umura > Singha. With an English interpretation and annotations. By > H.T. Colebrooke... > > Published/Created: Calcutta, Baneriee, 1891 > > Details and availability under `Full' link here (IeB Catalogus): > > http://bit.ly/kcv8Px > > > Kind regards, > > Richard > > > > Thanks for the help. > > > > Herman Tull > > Princeton, NJ > > -- > Richard MAHONEY - Indica et Buddhica > > Littledene, Bay Road, OXFORD 7430, NZ > Tel.: +64 3 312 1699 > r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org > > http://indica-et-buddhica.org > http://camera-antipodea.indica-et-buddhica.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Jun 24 07:48:28 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 11 09:48:28 +0200 Subject: Sanskrit Grammar Books In-Reply-To: <20110623233345.GC82976@proliant.indica-et-buddhica.org> Message-ID: <161227092833.23782.16252840396272446349.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1866 Lines: 67 Dear Richard, Is the full digitised text available to you from the Hathi trust? When I go to that link, it says it's under restricted copyright and won't let me see the book, only search for snippets. Your record says it's in the public domain (which it is). Keep thinking of you with the new earthquake. How are you and your family? Dominik On 24 June 2011 01:33, Richard MAHONEY wrote: > Dear Herman, > > On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 06:54:31PM -0400, Herman Tull wrote: > > I am doing some work involving early Sanskrit Grammars (my interest is in > > those written in English). I have been able to access quite a few, but > the > > earliest ones--Colebrooke's, A Grammar of the Sanskrit Language (1805) > and > > Carey's A Grammar of the Sungskrit Language (1804)--have thus far escaped > > me. Does anyone know of electronic versions of these volumes residing in > > some accessible location? > > Although not exactly what you are after you may find the following > helpful: > > Personal Name: Amarasi?ha. > > Main Title: Kosha, or dictionary of the Sanskrit language, by Umura > Singha. With an English interpretation and annotations. By > H.T. Colebrooke... > > Published/Created: Calcutta, Baneriee, 1891 > > Details and availability under `Full' link here (IeB Catalogus): > > http://bit.ly/kcv8Px > > > Kind regards, > > Richard > > > > Thanks for the help. > > > > Herman Tull > > Princeton, NJ > > -- > Richard MAHONEY - Indica et Buddhica > > Littledene, Bay Road, OXFORD 7430, NZ > Tel.: +64 3 312 1699 > r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org > > http://indica-et-buddhica.org > http://camera-antipodea.indica-et-buddhica.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Jun 24 08:04:24 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 11 10:04:24 +0200 Subject: early grammars digitized in the DL Message-ID: <161227092837.23782.3035298611245671143.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6905 Lines: 33 The following early grammars are digitized in the DLI (errors are in the DLI): A Grammar Of The Sanscrit Language Ed. 2., 4990010095086. Yates, W.. 1845. sanskrit. LANGUAGE. LINGUISTICS. LITERATURE. 526 pgs. A Grammar Of The Sanscrit Language Ed. 2., 4990010220581. Yates, W.. 1845. sanskrit. LANGUAGE. LINGUISTICS. LITERATURE. 526 pgs. A Grammar Of The Sunscrit Language., 4990010250591. Yates, William. 1820. english. LANGUAGE. LINGUISTICS. LITERATURE. 466 pgs. Comparative Grammar pt. 2., 4990010209549. Bopp, F.. 1845. english. LANGUAGE. LINGUISTICS. LITERATURE. 506 pgs. Grammar Of The Bengali Language., 4990010222482. Halhed, Nathaniel Brassey. 1778. english. LANGUAGE. LINGUISTICS. LITERATURE. 256 pgs. Grammar Of The Persian Language Ed. 9., 4990010217173. Lee, Samuel. 1828. urdu. LANGUAGE. LINGUISTICS. LITERATURE. 324 pgs. Grammar Of The Sanskrita Language., 4990010249290. Wilkins, Chales. 1808. english. LANGUAGE. LINGUISTICS. LITERATURE. 696 pgs.Sanskrit_Vyakaran_Praveshika_A_Sanskrit_Grammar_For_Students., 2020010013328. Sri_Rurthar_M_Mikanal. 1843. SANSKRIT. . 302 pgs. DW -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Fri Jun 24 09:14:17 2011 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 11 11:14:17 +0200 Subject: early grammars digitized in the DL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092841.23782.2119476925316829943.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1868 Lines: 37 Am 24.06.2011 um 10:04 schrieb Dominik Wujastyk: > The following early grammars are digitized in the DLI (errors are in the DLI): > > A Grammar Of The Sanscrit Language Ed. 2., 4990010095086. Yates, W.. 1845. sanskrit. LANGUAGE. LINGUISTICS. LITERATURE. 526 pgs. > A Grammar Of The Sanscrit Language Ed. 2., 4990010220581. Yates, W.. 1845. sanskrit. LANGUAGE. LINGUISTICS. LITERATURE. 526 pgs. > A Grammar Of The Sunscrit Language., 4990010250591. Yates, William. 1820. english. LANGUAGE. LINGUISTICS. LITERATURE. 466 pgs. > Comparative Grammar pt. 2., 4990010209549. Bopp, F.. 1845. english. LANGUAGE. LINGUISTICS. LITERATURE. 506 pgs. > Grammar Of The Bengali Language., 4990010222482. Halhed, Nathaniel Brassey. 1778. english. LANGUAGE. LINGUISTICS. LITERATURE. 256 pgs. > Grammar Of The Persian Language Ed. 9., 4990010217173. Lee, Samuel. 1828. urdu. LANGUAGE. LINGUISTICS. LITERATURE. 324 pgs. > Grammar Of The Sanskrita Language., 4990010249290. Wilkins, Chales. 1808. english. LANGUAGE. LINGUISTICS. LITERATURE. 696 pgs. > Sanskrit_Vyakaran_Praveshika_A_Sanskrit_Grammar_For_Students., 2020010013328. Sri_Rurthar_M_Mikanal. 1843. SANSKRIT. . 302 pgs. > The grammar of Wilkins is more conviently available from Google Books: Wilkins, Charles : A Grammar of the Sanskrita language. London 1808 URL: URL: Colebrooke's grammar was once also available from one of the rather dysfunctional DLI servers. But it is gone, it seems; I can't find it anymore. All the best Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG Thu Jun 23 23:33:45 2011 From: r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 11 11:33:45 +1200 Subject: Sanskrit Grammar Books In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092820.23782.6284332250366523408.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1184 Lines: 48 Dear Herman, On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 06:54:31PM -0400, Herman Tull wrote: > I am doing some work involving early Sanskrit Grammars (my interest is in > those written in English). I have been able to access quite a few, but the > earliest ones--Colebrooke's, A Grammar of the Sanskrit Language (1805) and > Carey's A Grammar of the Sungskrit Language (1804)--have thus far escaped > me. Does anyone know of electronic versions of these volumes residing in > some accessible location? Although not exactly what you are after you may find the following helpful: Personal Name: Amarasi?ha. Main Title: Kosha, or dictionary of the Sanskrit language, by Umura Singha. With an English interpretation and annotations. By H.T. Colebrooke... Published/Created: Calcutta, Baneriee, 1891 Details and availability under `Full' link here (IeB Catalogus): http://bit.ly/kcv8Px Kind regards, Richard > Thanks for the help. > > Herman Tull > Princeton, NJ -- Richard MAHONEY - Indica et Buddhica Littledene, Bay Road, OXFORD 7430, NZ Tel.: +64 3 312 1699 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org http://indica-et-buddhica.org http://camera-antipodea.indica-et-buddhica.com From religionbib at GMAIL.COM Fri Jun 24 17:40:38 2011 From: religionbib at GMAIL.COM (Alf Hiltebeitel) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 11 13:40:38 -0400 Subject: New publications In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092853.23782.5180103003662017991.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1682 Lines: 43 Dear Colleagues, Please excuse me for mentioning a new publication to which I have contributed. A two-panel gathering was held in October 2010 at the 39th Annual South Asia Conference in Madison, WI that was conceived to coincide with the roughly half a century since the completion of the Pune Critical Edition of the *Mahabharata*. Seven of the papers from that conference have been updated and comprise, along with an Introduction, the latest issue of the *Journal of Vaishnava Studies* 19,2 (2011) under the overall heading "Mahabharata Conference." The contents are: Vishwa P. Adluri, Introduction: The Critical Edition and Its Critics, A Retrospective on Mahabharata Scholarship T. P. Mahadevan, The Three Rails of the Mahabharata Text Tradition Christopher Austin, Evaluating the Critical Edition of the Mahabharata: Inferential Mileage and the Apparatus Materials Alf Hitebeitel, On Sukthankar's 'S" and Some Shortsighted Assessments and Uses of the Pune Critical Edition (CE) Joydeep Bagchee, Inversion, Krsnafication, Brahmanization: The Explanatory Force of Some Extraordinary Figures of Speech Vishwa P. Adluri, Frame Narratives and Forked Beginnings: Or, How to Read the Adiparvan Wendy J. Phillips-Rodriguez, The Critical Edition: The End of Mahabharata Textual Scholarship? Simon Brodbeck, Analytic and Synthetic Approaches in the Light of the Critical Edition of the Mahabharata and Harivamsa Alf Hiltebeitel Department of Rreligoin George Washington University beitel at gwu.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zysk at HUM.KU.DK Fri Jun 24 13:43:44 2011 From: zysk at HUM.KU.DK (Kenneth Zysk) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 11 15:43:44 +0200 Subject: Email Address Message-ID: <161227092846.23782.16645565216697942844.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 535 Lines: 19 I would greatly appreciate it if someone could give me offline the email address for Prof. Christine Chojnack in Lyon. Many thanks, Ken Kenneth Zysk, PhD, DPhil Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Artillerivej 86 DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark Ph: +45 3532 8951 Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Jun 24 13:50:45 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 11 15:50:45 +0200 Subject: Fwd: [INDOLOGY] Tibeten~Sanskrit Idiom Query In-Reply-To: <4E0316DB.9050200@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227092850.23782.12705995382605423038.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1616 Lines: 38 Dear colleagues, I thought Gary's message had gone to the group. With his permission, here it is: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Gary Tubb Date: 23 June 2011 12:35 Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Tibeten~Sanskrit Idiom Query To: Dominik Wujastyk ** Although the repetition in "dvi?a? dvi?am" might suggest that the author had the gerund in mind, there are two problems. One is the morphological expectation that the first syllable in such forms will always be heavy, which for a root with a short vowel followed by a single consonant is regularly achieved by guna strengthening: dve?a? dve?am. The second is the syntactical expectation that the agent of the gerund will be the same as the agent of the main verb, namely the physician rather than the patient. It might be better to take this as the accusative of the nominal form dvi?. Then I suppose the repetition might still express repeated or habitual behavior, as reflected in Dominik's translation (rather than being distributive, referring to a hater of both physicians and kings). This raises the further question, though, of whether it refers as an adjective simply to a patient who is hostile (in behavior or personality), or as a substantive to one who is (politically or professionally?) an opponent. Yours, Gary. Gary Tubb, Professor Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations The University of Chicago -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From m.b.jones at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU Sat Jun 25 01:38:00 2011 From: m.b.jones at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (Michael Brattus Jones) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 11 20:38:00 -0500 Subject: Obituary for Lucy Bulliet Message-ID: <161227092859.23782.11506318163099198983.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 870 Lines: 19 It is with great sadness that I pass along this obituary for Lucy Bulliet, which was written by her husband Professor Richard Bulliet of Columbia University. - M. B. Jones OBITUARY: Dr. Lucianne Cherry Bulliet, who had taught Vedic Religion at Columbia University for almost twenty years, succumbed to cancer on March 2, 2011. She was 71 years old. Dr. Bulliet grew up in San Diego, California, and graduated from Point Loma High School and Pomona College. She earned her doctoral degree in Sanskrit and Indian Studies at Harvard University under Professor Daniel H. H. Ingalls. Her scholarly interests focused on the earliest phases of Indian religion and culture as manifested in ancient works written in the Vedic language, and on the roots of Indo-European culture in Central Asia. She is survived by her husband Richard and son Mark. From jkirk at SPRO.NET Sat Jun 25 14:32:48 2011 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 11 08:32:48 -0600 Subject: Obituary for Lucy Bulliet In-Reply-To: <20110624203800.sl9oan3uuc44o4ks@webmail.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <161227092862.23782.13451174558688243598.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1237 Lines: 37 May I ask, will her valuable Bibliography be published in another obituary? Or is there one somewhere on Columbia's website? Thanks, Joanna Kirkpatrick -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Brattus Jones Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 7:38 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Obituary for Lucy Bulliet It is with great sadness that I pass along this obituary for Lucy Bulliet, which was written by her husband Professor Richard Bulliet of Columbia University. - M. B. Jones OBITUARY: Dr. Lucianne Cherry Bulliet, who had taught Vedic Religion at Columbia University for almost twenty years, succumbed to cancer on March 2, 2011. She was 71 years old. Dr. Bulliet grew up in San Diego, California, and graduated from Point Loma High School and Pomona College. She earned her doctoral degree in Sanskrit and Indian Studies at Harvard University under Professor Daniel H. H. Ingalls. Her scholarly interests focused on the earliest phases of Indian religion and culture as manifested in ancient works written in the Vedic language, and on the roots of Indo-European culture in Central Asia. She is survived by her husband Richard and son Mark. From r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG Fri Jun 24 21:57:02 2011 From: r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 11 09:57:02 +1200 Subject: Sanskrit Grammar Books In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092856.23782.13412822969142581011.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2908 Lines: 95 Dear Dominik, On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 09:48:28AM +0200, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Dear Richard, > Is the full digitised text available to you from the Hathi trust?? > When I go to that link, it says it's under restricted copyright and > won't let me see the book, only search for snippets.? Your record says > it's in the public domain (which it is). For: `Public Domain' Read: `Freely Available in the States' Or so it seems: Hathi Trust :: Help - Copyright http://www.hathitrust.org/help_copyright#RestrictedAccess It appears they are adopting an ultra-conservative approach. > Keep thinking of you with the new earthquake.? How are you and your > family? > Dominik Well enough given it all. My parents quit their house and the country after the round in February, preferring to squat in my sister's place in Barnes. One riverside to another, I'd have thought they'd have learnt ;) They'll be back in a week or two but their place has continued to break down so that is that. Still, despite everything, almost everyone remains in good spirits. I'd like to think this is a quality peculiar to New Zealanders, though I'm sure I'm wrong ... Kind regards, Richard > On 24 June 2011 01:33, Richard MAHONEY > <[1]r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org> wrote: > > Dear Herman, > > On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 06:54:31PM -0400, Herman Tull wrote: > > I am doing some work involving early Sanskrit Grammars (my interest > is in > > those written in English). ? I have been able to access quite a few, > but the > > earliest ones--Colebrooke's, A Grammar of the Sanskrit Language > (1805) and > > Carey's A Grammar of the Sungskrit Language (1804)--have thus far > escaped > > me. ? Does anyone know of electronic versions of these volumes > residing in > > some accessible location? > > Although not exactly what you are after you may find the following > helpful: > Personal Name: ? Amarasi??ha. > Main Title: Kosha, or dictionary of the Sanskrit language, by Umura > Singha. With an English interpretation and annotations. By > H.T. Colebrooke... > Published/Created: ? ? ? Calcutta, Baneriee, 1891 > Details and availability under `Full' link here (IeB Catalogus): > ? [2]http://bit.ly/kcv8Px > Kind regards, > ? Richard > > > Thanks for the help. > > > > Herman Tull > > Princeton, NJ > > > References > > 1. mailto:r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org > 2. http://bit.ly/kcv8Px > 3. mailto:r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org > 4. http://indica-et-buddhica.org/ > 5. http://camera-antipodea.indica-et-buddhica.com/ -- Richard MAHONEY - Indica et Buddhica Littledene, Bay Road, OXFORD 7430, NZ Tel.: +64 3 312 1699 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org http://indica-et-buddhica.org http://camera-antipodea.indica-et-buddhica.com From m.b.jones at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU Sat Jun 25 22:51:57 2011 From: m.b.jones at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (Michael Brattus Jones) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 11 17:51:57 -0500 Subject: Obituary for Lucy Bulliet Message-ID: <161227092865.23782.16919613488627169928.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2265 Lines: 64 Dear Professor Kirkpatrick (and list members), I'm not sure if you are referring to the (planned) bibliography of Lucy's library of indological volumes, a list of her publications, or something else I am not aware of that she compiled as a bibliography. Although neither of the first two are planned for publication per se, either or both may certainly be shared (upon completion) individually with members of the list by contacting me (mbjones at utexas.edu). Further, a posthumous volume of an intended work of hers, an (undergrad level) introduction to Vedic Religion, may eventually be forthcoming, though at this point her progress has not been ascertained. Thank you, Michael Brattus Jones Ph.D. student, Department of Asian Studies University of Texas at Austin Email: mbjones at utexas.edu From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of JKirkpatrick [jkirk at SPRO.NET] Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 9:32 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Obituary for Lucy Bulliet May I ask, will her valuable Bibliography be published in another obituary? Or is there one somewhere on Columbia's website? Thanks, Joanna Kirkpatrick -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Brattus Jones Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 7:38 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Obituary for Lucy Bulliet It is with great sadness that I pass along this obituary for Lucy Bulliet, which was written by her husband Professor Richard Bulliet of Columbia University. - M. B. Jones OBITUARY: Dr. Lucianne Cherry Bulliet, who had taught Vedic Religion at Columbia University for almost twenty years, succumbed to cancer on March 2, 2011. She was 71 years old. Dr. Bulliet grew up in San Diego, California, and graduated from Point Loma High School and Pomona College. She earned her doctoral degree in Sanskrit and Indian Studies at Harvard University under Professor Daniel H. H. Ingalls. Her scholarly interests focused on the earliest phases of Indian religion and culture as manifested in ancient works written in the Vedic language, and on the roots of Indo-European culture in Central Asia. She is survived by her husband Richard and son Mark. From lubint at WLU.EDU Sun Jun 26 03:19:42 2011 From: lubint at WLU.EDU (Lubin, Tim) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 11 23:19:42 -0400 Subject: Obituary for Lucy Bulliet In-Reply-To: <20110625175157.2p9mp9x3kcwcog80@webmail.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <161227092868.23782.13081872919032266925.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3947 Lines: 84 I hope you'll all indulge me a reply in a personal vein to Joanna's question about a dear friend now passed. Lucy Bulliet was an eminently thoughtful and humane soul. Her appreciation of .Rgvedic poetry was matched (or perhaps exceeded) only by her love of golden-age recordings of jazz. Self-effacing to a fault and devoted to her family, she did not publish much after completing her dissertation on the V.rtra myth in the .Rgveda under Ingalls. But her erudition bore fruit rather in her friendship and mentoring of a generation of students and young colleagues at Columbia. Lucy certainly filled a crucial gap during my doctoral studies at Columbia when my interests led me toward the Veda. She was always the only Vedic specialist around the university, and especially after Barbara Miller died and Brian Smith decamped for the West Coast, she was a great help and conversation partner in my Sanskrit studies during my time there. Over the last two decades, she made several trips to India, especially Kolkata, to read with a scholar, and it was a great pleasure to meet up with her near the New Woodlands in Chennai. She was always eager to discuss a difficult passage, and she brought to these discussions -- and to life in general -- patience, reflection, and a wry, often sardonic humor. Those fortunate enough to know her are missing her singular voice. Tim Lubin Washington and Lee University -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Brattus Jones Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 6:52 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Obituary for Lucy Bulliet Dear Professor Kirkpatrick (and list members), I'm not sure if you are referring to the (planned) bibliography of Lucy's library of indological volumes, a list of her publications, or something else I am not aware of that she compiled as a bibliography. Although neither of the first two are planned for publication per se, either or both may certainly be shared (upon completion) individually with members of the list by contacting me (mbjones at utexas.edu). Further, a posthumous volume of an intended work of hers, an (undergrad level) introduction to Vedic Religion, may eventually be forthcoming, though at this point her progress has not been ascertained. Thank you, Michael Brattus Jones Ph.D. student, Department of Asian Studies University of Texas at Austin Email: mbjones at utexas.edu From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of JKirkpatrick [jkirk at SPRO.NET] Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 9:32 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Obituary for Lucy Bulliet May I ask, will her valuable Bibliography be published in another obituary? Or is there one somewhere on Columbia's website? Thanks, Joanna Kirkpatrick -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Brattus Jones Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 7:38 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Obituary for Lucy Bulliet It is with great sadness that I pass along this obituary for Lucy Bulliet, which was written by her husband Professor Richard Bulliet of Columbia University. - M. B. Jones OBITUARY: Dr. Lucianne Cherry Bulliet, who had taught Vedic Religion at Columbia University for almost twenty years, succumbed to cancer on March 2, 2011. She was 71 years old. Dr. Bulliet grew up in San Diego, California, and graduated from Point Loma High School and Pomona College. She earned her doctoral degree in Sanskrit and Indian Studies at Harvard University under Professor Daniel H. H. Ingalls. Her scholarly interests focused on the earliest phases of Indian religion and culture as manifested in ancient works written in the Vedic language, and on the roots of Indo-European culture in Central Asia. She is survived by her husband Richard and son Mark. !SIG:4e066699198922073012642! From m.b.jones at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU Sun Jun 26 06:56:28 2011 From: m.b.jones at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (Michael Brattus Jones) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 11 01:56:28 -0500 Subject: Obituary for Lucy Bulliet Message-ID: <161227092871.23782.8738588028614179999.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4737 Lines: 121 Thank you, Professor Lubin, for your touching, eloquent, and much needed words, which I now forward to her family in case has not already been done. Beyond her dissertation (Harvard 1983) which you mentioned, we owe to her translations of portions of several Vedic hymns in Sources of Indian Tradition (2nd Ed. Vol. 1 by A.T. Embree, S.N. Hay, and W.T. De Bary, 1988): RV 9.62, 108 (pg. 15-16) and AV 4.17; 6.56 (pg. 22-24). I believe there were conference papers as well. For me, she was a patient mentor, harsh critic, deep inspiration, and dear friend, who is sorely missed. -M. B. Jones From: "Lubin, Tim" To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Obituary for Lucy Bulliet I hope you'll all indulge me a reply in a personal vein to Joanna's question about a dear friend now passed. Lucy Bulliet was an eminently thoughtful and humane soul. Her appreciation of .Rgvedic poetry was matched (or perhaps exceeded) only by her love of golden-age recordings of jazz. Self-effacing to a fault and devoted to her family, she did not publish much after completing her dissertation on the V.rtra myth in the .Rgveda under Ingalls. But her erudition bore fruit rather in her friendship and mentoring of a generation of students and young colleagues at Columbia. Lucy certainly filled a crucial gap during my doctoral studies at Columbia when my interests led me toward the Veda. She was always the only Vedic specialist around the university, and especially after Barbara Miller died and Brian Smith decamped for the West Coast, she was a great help and conversation partner in my Sanskrit studies during my time there. Over the last two decades, she made several trips to India, especially Kolkata, to read with a scholar, and it was a great pleasure to meet up with her near the New Woodlands in Chennai. She was always eager to discuss a difficult passage, and she brought to these discussions -- and to life in general -- patience, reflection, and a wry, often sardonic humor. Those fortunate enough to know her are missing her singular voice. Tim Lubin Washington and Lee University -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Brattus Jones Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 6:52 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Obituary for Lucy Bulliet Dear Professor Kirkpatrick (and list members), I'm not sure if you are referring to the (planned) bibliography of Lucy's library of indological volumes, a list of her publications, or something else I am not aware of that she compiled as a bibliography. Although neither of the first two are planned for publication per se, either or both may certainly be shared (upon completion) individually with members of the list by contacting me (mbjones at utexas.edu). Further, a posthumous volume of an intended work of hers, an (undergrad level) introduction to Vedic Religion, may eventually be forthcoming, though at this point her progress has not been ascertained. Thank you, Michael Brattus Jones Ph.D. student, Department of Asian Studies University of Texas at Austin Email: mbjones at utexas.edu From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of JKirkpatrick [jkirk at SPRO.NET] Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 9:32 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Obituary for Lucy Bulliet May I ask, will her valuable Bibliography be published in another obituary? Or is there one somewhere on Columbia's website? Thanks, Joanna Kirkpatrick -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Brattus Jones Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 7:38 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Obituary for Lucy Bulliet It is with great sadness that I pass along this obituary for Lucy Bulliet, which was written by her husband Professor Richard Bulliet of Columbia University. - M. B. Jones OBITUARY: Dr. Lucianne Cherry Bulliet, who had taught Vedic Religion at Columbia University for almost twenty years, succumbed to cancer on March 2, 2011. She was 71 years old. Dr. Bulliet grew up in San Diego, California, and graduated from Point Loma High School and Pomona College. She earned her doctoral degree in Sanskrit and Indian Studies at Harvard University under Professor Daniel H. H. Ingalls. Her scholarly interests focused on the earliest phases of Indian religion and culture as manifested in ancient works written in the Vedic language, and on the roots of Indo-European culture in Central Asia. She is survived by her husband Richard and son Mark. !SIG:4e066699198922073012642! From jkirk at SPRO.NET Sun Jun 26 16:07:39 2011 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 11 10:07:39 -0600 Subject: Obituary for Lucy Bulliet Message-ID: <161227092873.23782.18050201833056654382.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1170 Lines: 40 Dear Michael Brattus Jones, Thnaks for your reply, to which I sent a response privately. Best wishes Joanna Kirkpatrick -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Brattus Jones Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 4:52 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Obituary for Lucy Bulliet Dear Professor Kirkpatrick (and list members), I'm not sure if you are referring to the (planned) bibliography of Lucy's library of indological volumes, a list of her publications, or something else I am not aware of that she compiled as a bibliography. Although neither of the first two are planned for publication per se, either or both may certainly be shared (upon completion) individually with members of the list by contacting me (mbjones at utexas.edu). Further, a posthumous volume of an intended work of hers, an (undergrad level) introduction to Vedic Religion, may eventually be forthcoming, though at this point her progress has not been ascertained. Thank you, Michael Brattus Jones Ph.D. student, Department of Asian Studies University of Texas at Austin Email: mbjones at utexas.edu From hwtull at MSN.COM Sun Jun 26 20:35:39 2011 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 11 16:35:39 -0400 Subject: early grammars In-Reply-To: <2D2D53DD-85B3-4D94-BA04-041F4725D51C@uni-bonn.de> Message-ID: <161227092876.23782.1708010878344231879.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1101 Lines: 12 Thanks to everyone who responded to my query regarding early Sanskrit grammar books. Although I still was not able to get access to Colebrooke?s grammar, I have been able to track down quite a few interesting works. For those interested in this sort of thing, nearly all the early works are available in digitized form, among them grammars by Wilkins, Bopp (translated into English), Kielhorn, and Benfey. The ?standard? grammar works by Max Mueller, Whitney, Monier-Williams, Bhandarkar, and Macdonell are also available (the genealogies of these works is well-known, but interesting to review nonetheless). Additionally, Cambridge University has just issued a reprint of Wilkins?s 1808 grammar in a highly readable and fairly sturdy paperback edition ( I have no idea why the press undertook this project, but if anyone has any inside information, please do fill me in). with regards to the list-members Herman Tull -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From m.b.jones at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU Tue Jun 28 05:56:49 2011 From: m.b.jones at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (Michael Brattus Jones) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 11 00:56:49 -0500 Subject: query Message-ID: <161227092884.23782.235544863331443453.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1815 Lines: 50 Dear Professor Jha, This piece, called "Poison Damsels", does treat of poison more generally than the literary motif indicated in the title. Written by N.M. Penzer, it's actually Appendix 3 to Volume 2 of N.M. Penzer's 1924 re-presentation of C.H. Tawney's 1880 translation of the KathAsaritsAgara, entitled Ocean of Story. Penzer reworked Tawney's 2 vol. translation into a 10 volume set with multiple indexes, story lists, folk-lore motif lists, and essays on miscellaneous topics. I'm putting a pdf of "Poison Damsels" in the file-sharing website Dropbox - try this link and let me know if you can't access it. I'm afraid it's a large file and may open slowly. I believe I printed it into pdf from a larger file encompassing more (or all) of Volume 2 from archive.org. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27719917/Poison%20Damsel/Poison%20Damsels%20Penzer%20Ocean%20of%20Story%20Volume%202%20Appendix%203.pdf Good luck, Michael Brattus Jones Ph.D. student, Department of Asian Studies University of Texas in Austin email: mbjones at utexas.edu From: DN Jha To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 12:22 AM Subject: [INDOLOGY] query Dear List, One of my former students is seeking bibliographic information on poisons and their treatment in ancient India. Since I am familiar with literature on the subject I am giving below her request for help: "I am looking for material for a paper on poisons, anti-venom drugs and treatment in ancient India. I haven't come across too many secondary writings on this." DNJ -- D N Jha Professor of History (retired), University of Delhi 9, Uttaranchal Apartments 5, I.P. Extension, Delhi 110 092 Tel: + 2277 1049 Cell: 98111 43090 dnjha2010 at hotmail.com, dnjha1940 at yahoo.in, jdnarayan at gmail.com From mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU Tue Jun 28 07:36:09 2011 From: mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU (Michael Slouber) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 11 09:36:09 +0200 Subject: query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092888.23782.11690868842002384761.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1448 Lines: 34 Dear Professor Jha and colleagues, My doctoral thesis is on poison and antivenom remedies, though not limited to the ancient period. Your student can see my website and blog at for an introduction to my research. I have also collected quite a lot of secondary sources which I can forward on to anyone interested. If by ancient she means Vedic, the secondary sources are fewer. If we include Ayurveda and early Tantra, the number of sources grow significantly. All the best, Michael Slouber Ph.D. Candidate South and Southeast Asian Studies UC Berkeley On Jun 28, 2011, at 7:22 AM, DN Jha wrote: > Dear List, > One of my former students is seeking bibliographic information on > poisons and their treatment in ancient India. Since I am familiar with literature on the subject I am giving below her request for help: > "I am looking for material for a paper on poisons, anti-venom drugs and treatment in ancient India. I haven't come across too many secondary writings on this." > DNJ > -- > D N Jha > Professor of History (retired), > University of Delhi > 9, Uttaranchal Apartments > 5, I.P. Extension, Delhi 110 092 > Tel: + 2277 1049 > Cell: 98111 43090 > dnjha2010 at hotmail.com, dnjha1940 at yahoo.in, jdnarayan at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Jun 28 08:05:26 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 11 10:05:26 +0200 Subject: query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092893.23782.10359794963932231241.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1657 Lines: 47 My book _The Roots of Ayurveda_ contains a translation of the first two chapters from the kalpasthana of the Susrutasamhita that deal with with attempts at poisoning a king and with poisons of vegetable origin. In the introduction, I discuss the history of poisoning in India, the Venomous Virgin, and the spread in the medieval ME and Europe of Indian poison texts such as the pseudo-Canakya "Kitab al-Sumum," and the Venomous Virgin motif especially through through the Arabic Kitab Sir al-Asrar, the Latin Secretum Secretorum, and the popular Gesta Romanorum. Best, Dominik Dr Dominik Wujastyk Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Vienna Austria Project: http://www.istb.univie.ac.at/caraka/ On 28 June 2011 07:22, DN Jha wrote: > Dear List, > One of my former students is seeking bibliographic information on > poisons and their treatment in ancient India. Since I am familiar with > literature on the subject I am giving below her request for help: > "I am looking for material for a paper on poisons, anti-venom drugs and > treatment in ancient India. I haven't come across too many secondary > writings on this." > DNJ > -- > D N Jha > Professor of History (retired), > University of Delhi > 9, Uttaranchal Apartments > 5, I.P. Extension, Delhi 110 092 > Tel: + 2277 1049 > Cell: 98111 43090 > dnjha2010 at hotmail.com, dnjha1940 at yahoo.in, jdnarayan at gmail.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdnarayan at GMAIL.COM Tue Jun 28 05:22:26 2011 From: jdnarayan at GMAIL.COM (DN Jha) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 11 10:52:26 +0530 Subject: query Message-ID: <161227092880.23782.9450417101724576195.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 784 Lines: 22 Dear List, One of my former students is seeking bibliographic information on poisons and their treatment in ancient India. Since I am familiar with literature on the subject I am giving below her request for help: "I am looking for material for a paper on poisons, anti-venom drugs and treatment in ancient India. I haven't come across too many secondary writings on this." DNJ -- D N Jha Professor of History (retired), University of Delhi 9, Uttaranchal Apartments 5, I.P. Extension, Delhi 110 092 Tel: + 2277 1049 Cell: 98111 43090 dnjha2010 at hotmail.com, dnjha1940 at yahoo.in, jdnarayan at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Tue Jun 28 09:09:54 2011 From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE (franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 11 11:09:54 +0200 Subject: query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092902.23782.1027286452511256172.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2144 Lines: 62 There are multiple references in Buddhist and Ny?ya literature to the power of mantras to cure snake bites, etc. This generally accepted ?fact? has become the standard example for the visible results of the Vedic rituals and is used to infer the general validity of the Veda. See for instance V. Eltschinger, Dharmak?rti sur les mantra et la perception du supra-sensible. Wien 2001. Best wishes, Eli Zitat von Dominik Wujastyk : > My book _The Roots of Ayurveda_ contains a translation of the first two > chapters from the kalpasthana of the Susrutasamhita that deal with with > attempts at poisoning a king and with poisons of vegetable origin. In the > introduction, I discuss the history of poisoning in India, the Venomous > Virgin, and the spread in the medieval ME and Europe of Indian poison texts > such as the pseudo-Canakya "Kitab al-Sumum," and the Venomous Virgin motif > especially through through the Arabic Kitab Sir al-Asrar, the Latin Secretum > Secretorum, and the popular Gesta Romanorum. > > Best, > Dominik > > Dr Dominik Wujastyk > Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde > Universit?t Wien > Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 > A-1090 Vienna > Austria > Project: http://www.istb.univie.ac.at/caraka/ > > > > On 28 June 2011 07:22, DN Jha wrote: > >> Dear List, >> One of my former students is seeking bibliographic information on >> poisons and their treatment in ancient India. Since I am familiar with >> literature on the subject I am giving below her request for help: >> "I am looking for material for a paper on poisons, anti-venom drugs and >> treatment in ancient India. I haven't come across too many secondary >> writings on this." >> DNJ >> -- >> D N Jha >> Professor of History (retired), >> University of Delhi >> 9, Uttaranchal Apartments >> 5, I.P. Extension, Delhi 110 092 >> Tel: + 2277 1049 >> Cell: 98111 43090 >> dnjha2010 at hotmail.com, dnjha1940 at yahoo.in, jdnarayan at gmail.com >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI Tue Jun 28 08:12:23 2011 From: klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI (Klaus Karttunen) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 11 11:12:23 +0300 Subject: query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092897.23782.2709745437260515130.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2144 Lines: 51 Dear all, years ago I wrote an article about the poison-detecting animals: ?Monkeys kept in Royal Stables?, Traditional South Asian Medicine 6, 2001, 51?61. There is an earlier discussion on the same: CHARPENTIER, Jarl: "Poison-detecting birds", BSOS 5:2, 1929, 233-242. Before Penzer, the poison damsel has been discussed in: HERTZ, W.: ?Die Sage von Giftm?dchen?, AbhBayrAkWiss 20:1, 1893, 89-166 (both in India and West). Supposed antidotes in India and elsewhere include rhinoceros horn and bezoar. For the first, see my India in Early Greek Literature, ch. VII.5., for the second, e.g. MAHDIHASSAN, S.: "Bezoar presented to Emperor Jahangir", ABORI 56, 1975, 232f., 2 pl. Finally: RAU, Wilhelm: Altindische Pfeilgift. 42 p. Sitzungsber. der wiss. Ges. an der Johann Wolfgang Goethe-Univ. Frankfurt am Main 32:2. St. 1994. STUBBE-DIARRA, Ira: Die Symbolik von Gift und Nektar in der klassischen indischen Literatur. 12+154 p. Studies in Oriental Religions 33. Wb. 1995. Hope this is of some help. Best, Klaus Klaus Karttunen Professor of South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674 Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094 Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi On Jun 28, 2011, at 8:22 AM, DN Jha wrote: > Dear List, > One of my former students is seeking bibliographic information on > poisons and their treatment in ancient India. Since I am familiar with literature on the subject I am giving below her request for help: > "I am looking for material for a paper on poisons, anti-venom drugs and treatment in ancient India. I haven't come across too many secondary writings on this." > DNJ > -- > D N Jha > Professor of History (retired), > University of Delhi > 9, Uttaranchal Apartments > 5, I.P. Extension, Delhi 110 092 > Tel: + 2277 1049 > Cell: 98111 43090 > dnjha2010 at hotmail.com, dnjha1940 at yahoo.in, jdnarayan at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From info at BARKHUIS.NL Tue Jun 28 09:45:09 2011 From: info at BARKHUIS.NL (Roelf Barkhuis) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 11 11:45:09 +0200 Subject: query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092906.23782.14354666249705102558.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1695 Lines: 68 Dear Prof. Jha, Please try eJIM, the eJournal of Indian medicine, which is a multidisciplinary periodical that publishes studies on traditional South Asian medical systems by qualified scholars in philology, medicine, pharmacology, botany, anthropology and sociology. Website address is www.indianmedicine.nl. eJIM is an Open Access publication and makes no charge either to authors or to readers. Users have to register in order to read the articles. We have published several articles on poison, snake-bites, etc. Just one recent example: Traditional Poison-healing System in Kerala: an Overview, by Tsutomu Yamashita, Brahmadathan U.M.T., Madhu K. Parameswaran. Regards, Roelf Barkhuis Publisher of eJIM Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens DN Jha Verzonden: dinsdag 28 juni 2011 7:22 Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Onderwerp: [INDOLOGY] query Dear List, One of my former students is seeking bibliographic information on poisons and their treatment in ancient India. Since I am familiar with literature on the subject I am giving below her request for help: "I am looking for material for a paper on poisons, anti-venom drugs and treatment in ancient India. I haven't come across too many secondary writings on this." DNJ -- D N Jha Professor of History (retired), University of Delhi 9, Uttaranchal Apartments 5, I.P. Extension, Delhi 110 092 Tel: + 2277 1049 Cell: 98111 43090 dnjha2010 at hotmail.com, dnjha1940 at yahoo.in, jdnarayan at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Marion.Rastelli at OEAW.AC.AT Tue Jun 28 14:33:16 2011 From: Marion.Rastelli at OEAW.AC.AT (Rastelli, Marion) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 11 16:33:16 +0200 Subject: bali offerings Message-ID: <161227092910.23782.10473175986707462747.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 547 Lines: 22 Dear List Members, Do you know any studies (books, articles) on bali offerings? With best wishes, Marion Rastelli Mag.Dr. Marion Rastelli Institute for the Cultural and Intellectual History of Asia Centre for Studies in Asian Cultures and Social Anthropology Austrian Academy of Sciences Apostelgasse 23 1030 Vienna Austria Phone +43 1 51581 6417 Fax +43 1 51581 6410 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU Tue Jun 28 14:48:11 2011 From: mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU (Michael Slouber) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 11 16:48:11 +0200 Subject: bali offerings In-Reply-To: <366D7D7F1F289542B015A3E5DE057D54021A62CCA180@W07EXCHANGE.oeaw.ads> Message-ID: <161227092913.23782.5992197522324225144.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1791 Lines: 44 Dear Prof. Rastelli, There must be a large body of sources on bali offerings. Here are a few on sarpabali that they may likewise be of interest regarding Prof. Jha's query. Allocco, Amy. "Snakes, Goddesses, and Anthills: Modern Challenges and Women's Ritual Responses in Contemporary South India." Emory University, 2009. Sathe, J. "The Rite of Sarpabali and the Feelings of Our Forefathers Towards Serpents." In Proceedings of the National Seminar on Environmental Awareness Reflected in Sanskrit Literature. 1991. Van den Hoek, B, and B Shrestha. "The Sacrifice of Serpents. Exchange and Non-Exchange in the Sarpabali of Indr?yan?, Kathmandu." Bulletin de l'Ecole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient 79, no. 1 (1992). Winternitz, M. Der Sarpabali, Ein Altindischer Schlangencult. in: Mitteilungen der Anthropologischen Gesellschaft in Wien 18, 25--52 and 250--264= Kleine Schriften I, 5--32 and 33--47, 1888. I haven't seen the following book personally, but it may be useful: Dange, S S. Hindu Domestic Rituals: A Critical Glance. South Asia Books, 1985. Best regards, Michael Slouber Ph.D. Candidate South and Southeast Asian Studies UC Berkeley On Jun 28, 2011, at 4:33 PM, Rastelli, Marion wrote: > Dear List Members, > > Do you know any studies (books, articles) on bali offerings? > > With best wishes, > Marion Rastelli > > Mag.Dr. Marion Rastelli > Institute for the Cultural and Intellectual History of Asia > Centre for Studies in Asian Cultures and Social Anthropology > Austrian Academy of Sciences > Apostelgasse 23 > 1030 Vienna > Austria > Phone +43 1 51581 6417 > Fax +43 1 51581 6410 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hwtull at MSN.COM Wed Jun 29 12:10:50 2011 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 11 08:10:50 -0400 Subject: No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University :-( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092925.23782.9481662252768754056.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 727 Lines: 18 I was there as a student in the Wisconsin program 30+ years ago (actually in Telugu, but Sanskrit and Telugu were housed together). It was a pretty lively place back then... Has there been a similar dwindling of Sanskrit students at other large Indian public universities? Herman Tull From: Dominik Wujastyk Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 4:01 AM To: Subject: [INDOLOGY] No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University :-( http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hyderabad/Sanskrit-goes-defunct-at-Andhra-University/articleshow/9032252.cms -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdnarayan at GMAIL.COM Wed Jun 29 02:46:32 2011 From: jdnarayan at GMAIL.COM (DN Jha) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 11 08:16:32 +0530 Subject: query In-Reply-To: <006401cc3578$11cf7ce0$356e76a0$@nl> Message-ID: <161227092917.23782.6317005583110727676.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2335 Lines: 89 Dear Colleagues, Thank you very much for your response, I'm sure my former student will benefit from your suggestions. Regards, DNJ On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Roelf Barkhuis wrote: > Dear Prof. Jha,**** > > ** ** > > Please try eJIM, the eJournal of Indian medicine, which is a > multidisciplinary periodical that publishes studies on traditional South > Asian medical systems by qualified scholars in philology, medicine, > pharmacology, botany, anthropology and sociology. Website address is > www.indianmedicine.nl. **** > > ** ** > > eJIM is an Open Access publication and makes no charge either to authors or > to readers. Users have to register in order to read the articles.**** > > ** ** > > We have published several articles on poison, snake-bites, etc. Just one > recent example: Traditional Poison-healing System in Kerala: an Overview, > by Tsutomu Yamashita, Brahmadathan U.M.T., Madhu K. Parameswaran.**** > > ** ** > > Regards,**** > > ** ** > > Roelf Barkhuis**** > > Publisher of eJIM**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > *Van:* Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] *Namens *DN Jha > *Verzonden:* dinsdag 28 juni 2011 7:22 > *Aan:* INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > *Onderwerp:* [INDOLOGY] query**** > > ** ** > > Dear List,**** > > One of my former students is seeking bibliographic information on > poisons and their treatment in ancient India. Since I am familiar with > literature on the subject I am giving below her request for help:**** > > "I am looking for material for a paper on poisons, anti-venom drugs and > treatment in ancient India. I haven't come across too many secondary > writings on this." **** > > DNJ > -- > D N Jha > Professor of History (retired), > University of Delhi > 9, Uttaranchal Apartments > 5, I.P. Extension, Delhi 110 092 > Tel: + 2277 1049 > Cell: 98111 43090 > dnjha2010 at hotmail.com, dnjha1940 at yahoo.in, jdnarayan at gmail.com**** > -- -- D N Jha Professor of History (retired), University of Delhi 9, Uttaranchal Apartments 5, I.P. Extension, Delhi 110 092 Tel: + 2277 1049 Cell: 98111 43090 dnjha2010 at hotmail.com, dnjha1940 at yahoo.in, jdnarayan at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Jun 29 08:01:42 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 11 10:01:42 +0200 Subject: No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University :-( Message-ID: <161227092921.23782.8921682844362993478.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 292 Lines: 6 http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hyderabad/Sanskrit-goes-defunct-at-Andhra-University/articleshow/9032252.cms -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Wed Jun 29 12:24:34 2011 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 11 14:24:34 +0200 Subject: Poor quality of scans on Gallica Message-ID: <161227092930.23782.14098211132904312398.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1061 Lines: 28 dear Friends, I doubt I am the only one to notice that at least some of the scans on Gallica are atrocious; I just looked at Journal Asiatique for 1927, and large parts of it are entirely illegible. Is this an issue that is being addressed? I ask this in part since the Kern Institute, having lost our library, has been attempting to find homes for our journals, and we have, ironically perhaps, just gifted our run of JA to colleagues in Eastern Europe. To be sure, the University Library owns a set, but in part our thinking (or at least my thinking) was that electronic access was available. It is, but only in the sense that the journal has been scanned, not that the scan is readable.... jonathan -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Wed Jun 29 18:55:04 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 11 14:55:04 -0400 Subject: No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University :-( In-Reply-To: <1309350885.55330.YahooMailClassic@web94813.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227092940.23782.11716229043789176165.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3541 Lines: 87 Dear Dipak, As far as Latin and Greek are concerned, things are bad in the US and in Europe as well. Many small Classics departments are being absorbed into larger Foreign Language departments, or else they are being completely eliminated. There is a "university" in my home state of New Hampshire whose foreign language offerings consist of a couple of classes of Spanish and French! Some student activists have tried to organize and advocate for a full range of language offerings, including Sanskrit [they contacted me and asked me to write a letter of suppport, which I did]. When I was a boy in the 60's, I attended a Latin school, where I took six years of Latin and four of German. This school offered courses on Classical Greek as well, but in those days the US was in a race to the moon against the USSR, so we were discouraged from taking Greek. They forced the hard sciences on us instead. I studied Greek and Sanskrit and Avestan, etc., in college, got involved in Indo-European Studies, but of course my main passion is, and has always been, Vedic, especially the Rigveda. But even at the University of California at Berekeley, where I studied all of these languages, things have deteriorated. I expect that the Sankrit program there is much smaller now. Maybe one of our friends from Berkeley can be more specific than I can be. I hope this helps. Best, George Thompson On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 8:34 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya < dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com> wrote: > The problem with Sanskrit education in India is that its attraction lies > mostly in the guarantee of jobs in schools. When Classical language is made > an optional subject in the secondary stage most schools drop the posts of > Teacher-in-Sanskrit to save money and the bell tolls for Sanskrit, when made > compulsory the University Departments overflow. In Bengal at present we are > seeing a tide following a long period of ebb. Let somebody howl and > influence a big constituency in Andhra, they will see good days. > Another fact. Till the early part of the twentieth century there was a > natural attraction for Sanskrit. The University Sanskrit departments drew > the best students till about the sixties in Bengal. The decline came after > that. > I often wonder if the same problems arose in the West too regarding Greek > and Latin. I asked some friends. They were reticent or did not know. Will > somebody kindly enlighten us? > Best > DB > > > --- On *Wed, 29/6/11, Herman Tull * wrote: > > > From: Herman Tull > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University > :-( > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Wednesday, 29 June, 2011, 12:10 PM > > > I was there as a student in the Wisconsin program 30+ years ago > (actually in Telugu, but Sanskrit and Telugu were housed together). It was > a pretty lively place back then... > > Has there been a similar dwindling of Sanskrit students at other large > Indian public universities? > > Herman Tull > > *From:* Dominik Wujastyk > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 29, 2011 4:01 AM > *To:* > *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University > :-( > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hyderabad/Sanskrit-goes-defunct-at-Andhra-University/articleshow/9032252.cms > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Wed Jun 29 12:34:45 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 11 18:04:45 +0530 Subject: No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University :-( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092933.23782.13474987501644007486.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1932 Lines: 54 The problem with Sanskrit education in India is that its attraction lies mostly in the guarantee of jobs in schools. When Classical language is made an optional subject in the secondary stage most schools drop the posts of Teacher-in-Sanskrit to save money and the bell tolls for Sanskrit, when made compulsory the University Departments overflow. In Bengal at present we are seeing a tide following a long period of ebb. Let somebody howl and influence a big constituency in Andhra, they will see good days. Another fact. Till the early part of the twentieth century there was a natural attraction for Sanskrit. The University Sanskrit departments drew the best students till about the sixties in Bengal. The decline came after that. I often wonder if the same problems arose in the West too regarding Greek and Latin. I asked some friends. They were reticent or did not know. Will somebody kindly enlighten us? Best DB --- On Wed, 29/6/11, Herman Tull wrote: From: Herman Tull Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University :-( To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 29 June, 2011, 12:10 PM I was there as a student in the Wisconsin program 30+ years ago (actually in Telugu, but Sanskrit and Telugu were housed together).? It was a pretty lively place back then... ? Has there been a similar dwindling of Sanskrit students at other large Indian public universities? ? Herman Tull ? From: Dominik Wujastyk Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 4:01 AM To: Subject: [INDOLOGY] No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University :-( ? http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hyderabad/Sanskrit-goes-defunct-at-Andhra-University/articleshow/9032252.cms -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Thu Jun 30 01:41:09 2011 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 11 20:41:09 -0500 Subject: Query Message-ID: <161227092948.23782.5430212535668422126.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 423 Lines: 6 A colleague who is not on Indology has asked me a question to which I do not have a ready answer. So I promised him that I will post it on Indology, which generally elicits great answers from the pandit-network worldwide. The question relates to any studies done on the contrasting themes of "pa?ubh?va, v?rabh?va, and divyabh?va" -- I assume within the ?aiva-Tantrik traditions. Thanks for any leads. Patrick Olivelle From kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Wed Jun 29 18:50:54 2011 From: kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Kellner, Birgit) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 11 20:50:54 +0200 Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] Poor quality of scans on Gallica In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092937.23782.18058571117747062905.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1493 Lines: 28 I suspect that when it comes to large-scale scanning enterprises, there is not enough manpower for fine-grained quality control, which is then as a matter of fact outsourced to users (if they detect poor quality and complain, then steps can be undertaken towards improvement) - have you tried contacting Gallica about this? Best, Birgit ________________________________________ Von: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] im Auftrag von Jonathan Silk [kauzeya at GMAIL.COM] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. Juni 2011 14:24 An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Betreff: [INDOLOGY] Poor quality of scans on Gallica dear Friends, I doubt I am the only one to notice that at least some of the scans on Gallica are atrocious; I just looked at Journal Asiatique for 1927, and large parts of it are entirely illegible. Is this an issue that is being addressed? I ask this in part since the Kern Institute, having lost our library, has been attempting to find homes for our journals, and we have, ironically perhaps, just gifted our run of JA to colleagues in Eastern Europe. To be sure, the University Library owns a set, but in part our thinking (or at least my thinking) was that electronic access was available. It is, but only in the sense that the journal has been scanned, not that the scan is readable.... jonathan -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands From whitakjl at WFU.EDU Thu Jun 30 02:14:58 2011 From: whitakjl at WFU.EDU (Jarrod Whitaker) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 11 22:14:58 -0400 Subject: No incoming Sanskrit students.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092951.23782.8003010230825571516.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1014 Lines: 33 Dear All: On this topic but in more broad terms, Sheldon Pollock has recently written a very important article on the larger ethical implications of the loss of classical languages and the discipline of philology in Universities worldwide. Given the constituency of this list, we should all read it as he makes some important suggestions about how "we" should position ourselves in terms on theoretical sophistication and in relation to institutional mission statements and identity. Pollock, Sheldon. "Future Philology? The Fate of a Soft Science in a Hard World." /Critical Inquiry/, 35 (2009): 931-961. Warmest JLW -- Jarrod L. Whitaker, Ph.D. Assistant Professor, South Asian Religions Wake Forest University Department of Religion P.O. Box 7212 Winston-Salem, NC 27109 whitakjl at wfu.edu p 336.758.4162 f 336.758.4462 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Jun 29 23:59:53 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 11 01:59:53 +0200 Subject: "Google Translate welcomes you to the Indic web" Message-ID: <161227092944.23782.6213279586094514182.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 648 Lines: 15 > Beginning today [21 June 2011], you can explore the linguistic diversity of > the Indian sub-continent with Google Translate, > which now supports five new experimental alpha languages: Bengali, Gujarati, > Kannada, Tamil and Telugu. In India and Bangladesh alone, more than 500 > million people speak these five languages. See this link for more detail: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/06/google-translate-welcomes-you-to-indic.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Thu Jun 30 11:41:56 2011 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 11 06:41:56 -0500 Subject: No incoming Sanskrit students.... Message-ID: <161227092963.23782.13724280000685588398.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 816 Lines: 19 It is of some interest to compare the current lamentable situation in regard to Sanskrit education in India with the considerable flourishing of interest at major Chinese universities, including Beijing University, Renmin University, and Fudan University, among others. I have heard of introductory enrollments topping 60 in some cases. And the interest of Chinese students of Sanskrit is by no means limited to Buddhism, as one might have predicted, but now embraces kaavya, epic, and philosophical subjects. Although it is only tangentially related, as in the West, one may note that China is in the midst of a burgeoning yoga-craze as well. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From e.ciurtin at GMAIL.COM Thu Jun 30 09:53:44 2011 From: e.ciurtin at GMAIL.COM (Eugen Ciurtin) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 11 12:53:44 +0300 Subject: No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University :-( In-Reply-To: <1309420052.54887.YahooMailClassic@web94812.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227092959.23782.14532527333774626974.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7484 Lines: 165 Re: Prof Bhattacharya and Prof Tull's comparative interest in Latin: the akme within the Humanities was perhaps in mid-1930s, when a lot of leading 'Classical' philologist and linguists enthusiastically proposed every scholarly periodical - including 'Oriental' - to be written in Latin... (a Latin dissertatio in things Sanskrit/Indian survived in parts of Europe around 1900, e.g. Pischel's, in 1875, and then his pupils). Of course, in a couple of years the goals were a bit different. There are some mentions of this international project in *L'Ann?e philologique *of Marouzeau (and Lambrino, a Romanian scholar, exponent of an European interwar tradition which supported the teaching of Latin in highschools - one to three years - up to the end of the Communist regime in 1989, at least in this Latin coin of Eastern Europe, but in its aftermath the situation was and is equally disastrous). In his *La ricerca della lingua perfetta nella cultura europea*, Umberto Eco still tries to support the fabric of posthumous Latin neologisms (as 'videocapsulae' and, with a stronger impact? 'publicitarii'), which would be interesting to compare with the revival of (spoken) Sanskrit after 1947. Greek and Latin production of neologism still functions, more or less authomatically as far as I am aware, in medical and pharmaceutical research. Perhaps Dominik Wujastyk and others may document a similar case as for the Sanskrit medical sam.hitaas' lexical influence on a variety of modern Indian languages. E. Ciurtin 2011/6/30 Dipak Bhattacharya > > > --- On *Thu, 30/6/11, Dipak Bhattacharya *wrote: > > > From: Dipak Bhattacharya > > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University > :-( > To: "Dipak Bhattacharya" , "Herman Tull" < > hwtull at msn.com> > Date: Thursday, 30 June, 2011, 7:41 AM > > < Jobs in these fields are very hard to come by, but the students are able > to apply their training to many different (non-academic) enterprises.> > A difference with the situation in India is caused by the policy of the > Central as well as of some state governments. One may recall the pro-mother > tongue sentiments violently prevailing in the late sixties and the > introduction of compulsory teaching through the state language in Government > aided Institutions. The result was an abrupt fall in standard. Most of the > dwindling number of Sanskrit students opted for mother tongue. When students > needed writing only in his/her mother tongue consultation of books in > English, not to speak of other European languages, became rare even for PhD > students. The situation was partially amended by the spread of private > institutions that kept the English medium compulsory. But these are > expensive. As a result two classes of educated were created. Students in > state aided Universities, unless not bereft of active encouragement from > enlightened teachers, languished. Only non-state Centrally aided > Universities (JNU, Visva Bharati, Delhi etc) had to retain English (they had > to withstand the pressure of Hindi protagonist) to address students from > different states. > Those students who had gained poor mastery of English when leaving state > universities have no chance of getting jobs in non-teaching/private > institutions where the knowledge of English is a must. > So a difference has arisen. > I must state that quite a few students could gain mastery of English and > could contribute to international standards of research. But their number > has been few. > Fortunately, of late, a reversion of the trend is noticeable. > Best > DB > --- On *Wed, 29/6/11, Herman Tull * wrote: > > > From: Herman Tull > > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University > :-( > To: "Dipak Bhattacharya" > Date: Wednesday, 29 June, 2011, 6:52 PM > > I have only anecdotal evidence. I was a member of the Classics > Department at Princeton University for several years. The department still > fares well, with strong students (and good numbers) on both the > undergraduate level and the graduate level studying Greek and Latin. Jobs > in these fields are very hard to come by, but the students are able to apply > their training to many different (non-academic) enterprises. One difference > in modern U. S. education (since the turn of the century) is that Greek and > Latin are no longer compulsory. Many schools in earlier days had an > entrance exam in Greek and Latin; but that gradually declined at the end of > the 19th century. As far as the best and the brightest not choosing > Classics?there is so much choice now, whereas 100+ years ago the professions > requiring education were so few (nearly all which, such as minister, > physician, and teacher, required classical languages). > > Herman Tull > > *From:* Dipak Bhattacharya > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 29, 2011 8:34 AM > *To:* INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra > University :-( > > The problem with Sanskrit education in India is that its attraction lies > mostly in the guarantee of jobs in schools. When Classical language is made > an optional subject in the secondary stage most schools drop the posts of > Teacher-in-Sanskrit to save money and the bell tolls for Sanskrit, when made > compulsory the University Departments overflow. In Bengal at present we are > seeing a tide following a long period of ebb. Let somebody howl and > influence a big constituency in Andhra, they will see good days. > Another fact. Till the early part of the twentieth century there was a > natural attraction for Sanskrit. The University Sanskrit departments drew > the best students till about the sixties in Bengal. The decline came after > that. > I often wonder if the same problems arose in the West too regarding Greek > and Latin. I asked some friends. They were reticent or did not know. Will > somebody kindly enlighten us? > Best > DB > > > --- On *Wed, 29/6/11, Herman Tull * wrote: > > > From: Herman Tull > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University > :-( > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Wednesday, 29 June, 2011, 12:10 PM > > I was there as a student in the Wisconsin program 30+ years ago > (actually in Telugu, but Sanskrit and Telugu were housed together). It was > a pretty lively place back then... > > Has there been a similar dwindling of Sanskrit students at other large > Indian public universities? > > Herman Tull > > *From:* Dominik Wujastyk > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 29, 2011 4:01 AM > *To:* > *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University > :-( > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hyderabad/Sanskrit-goes-defunct-at-Andhra-University/articleshow/9032252.cms > > -- Dr E. Ciurtin Publications Officer of the European Association for the Study of Religions www.easr.eu Lecturer & Secretary of the Scientific Council Institute for the History of Religions, Romanian Academy Calea 13 Septembrie no. 13 sect. 5, Bucharest 050711 Phone: 00 40 733 951 953 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Thu Jun 30 07:47:32 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 11 13:17:32 +0530 Subject: No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University :-( In-Reply-To: <1309419687.79165.YahooMailClassic@web94802.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227092955.23782.592005568621468126.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5753 Lines: 125 --- On Thu, 30/6/11, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University :-( To: "Dipak Bhattacharya" , "Herman Tull" Date: Thursday, 30 June, 2011, 7:41 AM < Jobs in these fields are very hard to come by, but the students are able to apply their training to many different (non-academic) enterprises.> A difference with the situation in India is caused by the policy of the Central as well as of some state governments. One may recall the pro-mother tongue sentiments violently prevailing in the late sixties and the introduction of compulsory teaching through the state language in Government aided Institutions. The result was an abrupt fall in standard. Most of the dwindling number of Sanskrit students opted for mother tongue. When students needed writing only in his/her mother tongue consultation of books in English, not to speak of other European languages, became rare even for PhD students. The situation was partially amended by the spread of private institutions that kept the English medium compulsory. But these are expensive. As a result two classes of educated were created. Students in state aided Universities, unless not bereft of active encouragement from enlightened teachers, languished. Only non-state Centrally aided Universities (JNU, Visva Bharati, Delhi etc) had to retain English (they had to withstand the pressure of Hindi protagonist) to address students from different states. Those students who had gained poor mastery of English when leaving state universities have no chance of getting jobs in non-teaching/private institutions where the knowledge of English is a must. So a difference has arisen. I must state that quite a few students could gain mastery of English and could contribute to international standards of research. But their number has been few. Fortunately, of late, a reversion of the trend is noticeable. ?Best DB --- On Wed, 29/6/11, Herman Tull wrote: From: Herman Tull Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University :-( To: "Dipak Bhattacharya" Date: Wednesday, 29 June, 2011, 6:52 PM I have only anecdotal evidence.? I was a member of the Classics Department at Princeton University for several years.? The department still fares well, with strong students (and good numbers) on both the undergraduate level and the graduate level studying Greek and Latin.? Jobs in these fields are very hard to come by, but the students are able to apply their training to many different (non-academic) enterprises. One difference in modern U. S. education (since the turn of the century) is that Greek and Latin are no longer compulsory.? Many schools in earlier days had an entrance exam in Greek and Latin; but that gradually declined at the end of the 19th century.? As far as the best and the brightest not choosing Classics?there is so much choice now, whereas 100+ years ago the professions requiring education were so few (nearly all which, such as minister, physician, and teacher, required classical languages). ? Herman Tull ? From: Dipak Bhattacharya Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 8:34 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University :-( ? The problem with Sanskrit education in India is that its attraction lies mostly in the guarantee of jobs in schools. When Classical language is made an optional subject in the secondary stage most schools drop the posts of Teacher-in-Sanskrit to save money and the bell tolls for Sanskrit, when made compulsory the University Departments overflow. In Bengal at present we are seeing a tide following a long period of ebb. Let somebody howl and influence a big constituency in Andhra, they will see good days. Another fact. Till the early part of the twentieth century there was a natural attraction for Sanskrit. The University Sanskrit departments drew the best students till about the sixties in Bengal. The decline came after that. I often wonder if the same problems arose in the West too regarding Greek and Latin. I asked some friends. They were reticent or did not know. Will somebody kindly enlighten us? Best DB --- On Wed, 29/6/11, Herman Tull wrote: From: Herman Tull Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University :-( To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 29 June, 2011, 12:10 PM I was there as a student in the Wisconsin program 30+ years ago (actually in Telugu, but Sanskrit and Telugu were housed together).? It was a pretty lively place back then... ? Has there been a similar dwindling of Sanskrit students at other large Indian public universities? ? Herman Tull ? From: Dominik Wujastyk Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 4:01 AM To: Subject: [INDOLOGY] No incoming Sanskrit students at Andhra University :-( ? http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hyderabad/Sanskrit-goes-defunct-at-Andhra-University/articleshow/9032252.cms -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU Thu Jun 30 11:46:10 2011 From: mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU (Michael Slouber) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 11 13:46:10 +0200 Subject: AAS 2012 Panel seeking papers, chair, and discussants Message-ID: <161227092966.23782.9638446963468085068.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1310 Lines: 17 Dear Scholars, Apologies for cross-postings. I am organizing a panel on "Religion and Medicine" for the 2012 meeting of the Association for Asian Studies to be held March 15--18th, 2012 in Toronto. A description of my initial ideas follows. I seek papers for this panel as well as discussants and a senior scholar to act as chair. If you know of anyone to whom this panel would be of interest, please forward the message to them. Details on the conference can be found here: . Proposed panel: "Religion and Medicine." I would like to form a panel of papers on topics that involve both religious and medical issues. My paper will be on deity possession in South Asian snakebite healing traditions. Papers on possession or religious activity and mental health, the interplay of traditional and modern medicine, and ones which de-emphasize the assumed polarity of religion and medicine would fit this panel particularly well. Contact Michael Slouber at . Sincerely, Michael Slouber Ph.D. Candidate South and Southeast Asian Studies UC Berkeley -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Thu Jun 30 19:51:32 2011 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 11 14:51:32 -0500 Subject: Mantra Message-ID: <161227092982.23782.14842118965926085681.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 183 Lines: 10 I'd be much grateful if any of you have a lead regarding a mantra that I have been unable to trace: s? te gatir y? ??r???m. This is said to be recited at an avabh?tha. Thanks. From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Jun 30 13:57:58 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 11 15:57:58 +0200 Subject: No incoming Sanskrit students.... In-Reply-To: <4E0BDC22.5060208@wfu.edu> Message-ID: <161227092974.23782.16651429333948559476.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 966 Lines: 25 On 30 June 2011 04:14, Jarrod Whitaker wrote: > ** > Dear All: > On this topic but in more broad terms, Sheldon Pollock has recently written > a very important article on the larger ethical implications of the loss of > classical languages and the discipline of philology in Universities > worldwide. Given the constituency of this list, we should all read it as he > makes some important suggestions about how "we" should position ourselves in > terms on theoretical sophistication and in relation to institutional mission > statements and identity. > > Pollock, Sheldon. "Future Philology? The Fate of a Soft Science in a Hard > World." *Critical Inquiry*, 35 (2009): 931-961. > > Just to make this easy, the above article can be read here: http://db.tt/0AtsUIc DW -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Jun 30 14:35:42 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 11 16:35:42 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Chanting_of_=C5=9Blokas_or_k=C4=81vya?= Message-ID: <161227092978.23782.18285856357600271476.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 577 Lines: 17 Dear colleagues, A student recently asked me if I could recommend some clear, beautiful, accurate recitation of Sanskrit ?lokas or other verses or even connected prose. He has about two years Sanskrit under his belt, but hasn't got the language strongly in his ears yet. Can you recommend any easily-available recordings, videos, or other media (free?) that would fit the bill? Many thanks Dominik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Thu Jun 30 13:35:53 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 11 19:05:53 +0530 Subject: Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Query Message-ID: <161227092970.23782.5103502905452397656.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1447 Lines: 44 --- On Thu, 30/6/11, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Query To: "Patrick Olivelle" Date: Thursday, 30 June, 2011, 1:34 PM Dear Colleague, I do not know if the following will be of any help. The transformation from the pa?u-state to the ?i?u-s. and then to ?iva-s. is dealt with in the ??rad?tilaka and the Pad?rth?dar?a in the chapter on Kriy?vat? D?k??. Some studies were made by the present author in the seventies, published 1984. Pardon unintended self-canvassing. Best DB --- On Thu, 30/6/11, Patrick Olivelle wrote: From: Patrick Olivelle Subject: [INDOLOGY] Query To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Thursday, 30 June, 2011, 1:41 AM A colleague who is not on Indology has asked me a question to which I do not have a ready answer. So I promised him that I will post it on Indology, which generally elicits great answers from the pandit-network worldwide. The question relates to any studies done on the contrasting themes of "pa?ubh?va, v?rabh?va, and divyabh?va" -- I assume within the ?aiva-Tantrik traditions. Thanks for any leads. Patrick Olivelle -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Mar 1 01:01:57 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 11 20:01:57 -0500 Subject: default reply behaviour (was: curses) In-Reply-To: <721FEC04-01CB-48D5-A337-02F53D320B1D@verizon.net> Message-ID: <161227091682.23782.10612026691685842267.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 543 Lines: 20 I think the default Reply to Sender's avoiding embarrassment and potentially in some cases serious damage to human relationships and careers is worth the small inconvenience of occasionally only replying to the poster rather than as intended to the list. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA Tue Mar 1 01:29:57 2011 From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 11 20:29:57 -0500 Subject: default reply behaviour (was: curses) In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F167F7FB179@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227091685.23782.15728721077086920529.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 873 Lines: 40 I agree with Allen! Stella -- Professor Stella Sandahl Department of East Asian Studies 130 St. George St. room 14087 Toronto, ON M5S 3H1 ssandahl at sympatico.ca stella.sandahl at utoronto.ca Tel. (416) 978-4295 Fax. (416) 978-5711 On 28-Feb-11, at 8:01 PM, Thrasher, Allen wrote: > I think the default Reply to Sender's avoiding embarrassment and > potentially in some cases serious damage to human relationships and > careers is worth the small inconvenience of occasionally only > replying to the poster rather than as intended to the list. > > Allen > > Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. > Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator > South Asia Team > Asian Division > Library of Congress > Washington, DC 20540-4810 > USA > tel. 202-707-3732 > fax 202-707-1724 > The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the > Library of Congress. > > > From info at BARKHUIS.NL Wed Mar 2 10:29:37 2011 From: info at BARKHUIS.NL (Roelf Barkhuis) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 11 11:29:37 +0100 Subject: eJIM: New Issue Published Message-ID: <161227091687.23782.14285166164368334485.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1320 Lines: 52 Dear members of INDOLOGY, eJIM, the eJournal of Indian Medicine, has just published its latest issue at http://bjournals.ub.rug.nl/index.php/ejim. We invite you to review the Table of Contents. We would also like to draw your attention to our two news items. The first is one is about the continuing search for a candidate for the Jan Meulenbeld Chair, which is an initiative of the Foundation for the Revitalization of Local Health Traditions, Bangalore, India. Secondly, eJIM Supplement 3 has appeared: Jan Meulenbeld, The ??tapitta group of disorders (urticaria and similar syndromes) and its development in ?yurvedic literature from early times to the present day. eJIM currently has 724 registered readers. eJIM is an Open Access publication and makes no charge either to authors or to readers. Users have to register in order to read the articles. The counterpart of eJIM is ABIM, the Annotated Bibliography of Indian Medicine, maintained by Jan Meulenbeld. See the link GO TO ABIM top right on the eJIM website. Thank you for the continuing interest in our journal, Roelf Barkhuis Publisher of eJIM Phone +31-50 3080936 Fax +31-50 3080934 info at barkhuis.nl www.barkhuis.nl From pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK Fri Mar 4 10:03:14 2011 From: pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK (Peter Flugel) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 11 10:03:14 +0000 Subject: SOAS Centre of Jaina Studies Message-ID: <161227091690.23782.9859258997738955306.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 662 Lines: 30 The online version of *Jaina Studies: Newsletter of the Centre of Jaina Studies* Vol. 6 has just been published at: http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies/newsletter/file66850.pdf For the programme of the 13th Jaina Studies Workshop at SOAS on *Jaina Narratives* 17-18 March 2011 see: http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies/ Everyone is Welcome! -- Dr Peter Fl?gel Chair, Centre of Jaina Studies Department of the Study of Religions Faculty of Arts and Humanities School of Oriental and African Studies University of London Thornhaugh Street Russell Square London WC1H OXG Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776 E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies From tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Mar 7 15:09:31 2011 From: tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU (Gary Tubb) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 11 09:09:31 -0600 Subject: New Publication Message-ID: <161227091699.23782.10424464761012716540.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 232 Lines: 12 I would like to announce the following new publication: Johannes Bronkhorst: Buddhism in the Shadow of Brahmanism. Leiden - Boston: Brill. 2011. (Handbook of Oriental Studies, 2/24.) ISBN: 978-90-04-20140-8. Yours, Gary Tubb. From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Mon Mar 7 08:43:10 2011 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 11 09:43:10 +0100 Subject: Leiden Summer School Message-ID: <161227091692.23782.3036548629021025665.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1243 Lines: 48 On behalf of the organizers, I forward the following announcement--in particular, note that there are four classes in Sanskrit (including Middle Indic, in casu, G?ndh?r?): We are happy to announce the sixth edition of the *Leiden Summer School in Languages and Linguistics* which will be held from 18 July ? 29 July 2011 at the Faculty of Humanities of Leiden University. The Summer School offers a number of courses on a wide range of subjects in the field of languages and linguistics. This year, the Summer School will consist of six programmes, including courses for beginners as well as for advanced students, taught by internationally renowned specialists: Germanic Programme Indo-European Programme *Indological Programme * Iranian Programme Semitic Programme Russian Programme For more information and registration, visit: * http://www.hum.leiden.edu/summerschool/.* Yours sincerely, Alexander Lubotsky (director) Tina Janssen (organizer) Comparative Indo-European Linguistics Leiden University PO Box 9515 NL-2300 RA Leiden The Netherlands -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands From mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM Mon Mar 7 14:45:23 2011 From: mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 11 09:45:23 -0500 Subject: WORKSHOP ON TRIKA PHILOSOPHY OF KASHMIR (i.e. KASHMIR SAIVISM) Message-ID: <161227091697.23782.10741790480169194719.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3006 Lines: 14 Posted by Mrinal Kaul on behalf of Prof Navjivan Rastogi WORKSHOP ON TRIKA PHILOSOPHY OF KASHMIR (i.e. KASHMIR SAIVISM) The Ten-day workshop being organised by the Indian Council of Philosophical Research at its Academic Centre Lucknow (India) from May 27, 2011 to June 06, 2011 with Professor Navjivan Rastogi as the Director aims at introducing the Trika philosophy. The word ?Trika? stands for the monistic tradition/s of the tantric Saivism of Kashmir (of medieval India, specially 9th -12th centuries) subscribed to and nourished by the contributions of Abhinavagupta, one of the foremost Indian thinkers and his entire lineage. The system challenged the established paradigms of Indian philosophical thinking and re-constructed a life-affirming world-view revolutionizing philosophical responses to the core issues, extending from soteriology, logic, epistemology to language, fine arts, aesthetics and social ethos. Unfortunately, since the traditional guru-shishya-parampara is extinct and the serious Indian scholarship of the gone-by generation represented by Laksman Joo, Gopinath Kaviraj and K.C. Pandey is no longer around, the ICPR decides to organize this as a first-level workshop in order to acquaint the participants with the fundamentals of the Trika, that is, the Kashmir Shaivism, otherwise known as Pratyabhijna school. The workshop will be broadly a theme-based one and partly text-based. The two sessions, per day, will be from 10.00 A.M. to 1.00 P.M. and 2.30 P.M. to 5.30 P.M. with one & half hours' break. The workshop will be conducted by Prof. Navjivan Rastogi together with several other eminent scholars like Profs. K.D. Tripathi, Kamlakar Misra, Kamlesh Jha and a few others. The workshop will be open to all those who are interested in Kashmir Shaivism. As such faculty members and research scholars in the departments of philosophy, Indian philosophy, Department of Sanskrit with philosophy as one of its courses (including Sanskrit Universities) and also those who are connected with academic centres and institutions operating in the similar field will be eligible to apply. The number of participants would be limited to twenty-five. The expenses for travel by 3rd class A/C, boarding and lodging and course-literature would be borne by the ICPR. The intending participants may apply by 31rst March on the ICPR's form which could be downloaded from its Website. Alternatively they may send applications by post with their CV highlighting their academic credentials with research interest and area of specialization to Dr. Mercy Helen, Director, ICPR, Academic Centre, 3/9 Vipul Khand, Gomtinagar, Lucknow-226010 or by e-mail at icprlkw at gmail.com by 31rst March 2011. For any clarification she may be contacted at 0522-2392636 or by e-mail at above noted e-mail address. The details of the course work, list of resource persons etc. will be posted in the ICPR website in due course. Mercy Helen Director, ICPR Academic Centre, Vipul Khand, Lucknow. From lubint at WLU.EDU Mon Mar 7 15:21:21 2011 From: lubint at WLU.EDU (Lubin, Tim) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 11 10:21:21 -0500 Subject: Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091701.23782.14856928437932811492.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1113 Lines: 17 Dear all, Reading the (unpublished) Kaa"syapottarasa.mhitaa (adhyaaya 18), I have been puzzling over the precise implications of some categories of "Suudra described therein, categories including the suffix -antara, as follows (in descending rank order): Vai.s.nava vs. Vai.s.navaantara, "Saiva vs. "Saivaantara, Saamaanya vs. Saamaanyaantara, Sa.mkara vs. Sa.mkaraantara. An initial round of searches has not yielded any parallels that would suggest what distinguishes, e.g., a 'Vai.s.navaantara"suudra' from a 'Vai.s.nava"suudra'. The text itself is not really explicit, except to suggest that the Vai.s.navaantara is a lower status. In this case, the lower status may be implicitly attributable to association with "Saivas (despite having received the sa.mskaaras taught in the Puraa.nas and Paa~ncaraatra "saastras, noted in the preceding stanza): "saivaagamoktasa.mskaarisambandha.m samavaapya ca | svaya.m ced vai.s.navas ti.s.thed vai.s.navaantara iirita.h || Have others encountered similar status-titles in other works? Does 'X-antara' simply imply 'a lesser' or 'not quite an' X? Tim Lubin From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Mon Mar 7 10:43:52 2011 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 11 11:43:52 +0100 Subject: Leiden Summer School In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091694.23782.9848185857243865839.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1781 Lines: 69 I have been told that it is better to write the link as follows (although it did work for me even with /. at the end...): *http://www.hum.leiden.edu/summerschool* Apologies for the confusion! On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:43 AM, Jonathan Silk wrote: > On behalf of the organizers, I forward the following announcement--in > particular, note that there are four classes in Sanskrit (including Middle > Indic, in casu, G?ndh?r?): > > We are happy to announce the sixth edition of the *Leiden Summer School in > Languages and Linguistics* which will be held from 18 July ? 29 July 2011 > at the Faculty of Humanities of Leiden University. > > The Summer School offers a number of courses on a wide range of subjects in > the field of languages and linguistics. > > This year, the Summer School will consist of six programmes, including > courses for beginners as well as for advanced students, taught by > internationally renowned specialists: > > Germanic Programme > Indo-European Programme > *Indological Programme * > Iranian Programme > Semitic Programme > Russian Programme > > For more information and registration, visit: * > http://www.hum.leiden.edu/summerschool/.* > > Yours sincerely, > Alexander Lubotsky (director) > Tina Janssen (organizer) > > Comparative Indo-European Linguistics > Leiden University > PO Box 9515 > NL-2300 RA Leiden > The Netherlands > > > > -- > J. Silk > Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden > Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS > Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 > Doelensteeg 16 > 2311 VL Leiden > The Netherlands > > -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU Tue Mar 8 02:21:04 2011 From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John C. Huntington) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 11 21:21:04 -0500 Subject: New Maps On the Huntington Archive Message-ID: <161227091706.23782.12908235352778886166.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2262 Lines: 28 Dear Friends & Colleagues The list of maps on the Huntington Archive has grown rather substantially since October! The four most recent additions are: 1) (Entitled "Minor states during the Kushan Period" and located as the last map in the "Bactro-Gandhara History" section) A Numismatically important locator for the Parata (Paradan) Rajas and their state in what is now South-western Pakistan. It is based on Pankaj Tandon's article, "The Location and Kings of Paradan," forthcoming, Studia Iranica (2011). My deepest gratitude to Pankaj for sharing the preliminary data me so I could provide the map. 2) (Entitled "Trade Routes and the Transmission of Buddhism : ca. 250 BCE- 1500 CE" Located in the third row of the "detailed Maps" section) A series of three maps of the trans-Asian trade routes both for trade and the spread of Buddhism through Asia with a list of Buddhist pilgrims and teachers who travelled various places. There are three different maps each small with reduced data because there is one for power point, one mid size for direct display on a computer and a large one for detailed examinations that is also suitable for printing in wall map size. The original was made for HH 17th Karmapa for a book on the Karmapa Linage he published. It seemed potentially useful for distribution on the web as well 3) (Entitled "Nepal Trade-routes" and located in the third row of the Detailed maps section) A topgraphic map depicting the trade-routes through the Himalaya that were of importance both to the Khasa Mall and the Kingdoms of the Kathmandu Valley (The small one is way too small?we will fix that soon) 4) (Entitled "The Heart of Tantric Asia" and located in the third row of "Detailed Maps" section) A full scale map and smaller derivatives of the end papers map from Dina's and my "Circle of Bliss: Buddhist Meditational Art". It depictsHimalayan Asia from Kashmir in the west to the Yunnan area of China in the east and from Qinghai in the North to Aurangabad in the south. While it is too detailed for a PowerPoint it can be assigned or downloaded for use. I am sorry to say I will not be at the maps again until fall or later this year. Enjoy and I do hope they are useful. Cheers and Sarvamangalam to all John From manufrancis at GMAIL.COM Mon Mar 7 20:26:41 2011 From: manufrancis at GMAIL.COM (Emmanuel Francis) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 11 21:26:41 +0100 Subject: Bhakti Workshop-cum-Conference August 2011 Pondicherry Message-ID: <161227091703.23782.11029657574452980195.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 409 Lines: 16 Dear colleagues, Please find below the links to the webpages dedicated to the Bhakti Workshop-cum-Conference that will held at the beginning of August 2011 in the EFEO centre of Pondicherry. This is open for registration. In French: http://www.efeo.fr/base.php?code=703 In English: http://www.efeo.fr/base.php?code=719 With best wishes. Emmanuel FRANCIS Associate researcher, CEIAS (EHESS-CNRS), Paris From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Tue Mar 8 03:30:16 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 11 22:30:16 -0500 Subject: Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton Message-ID: <161227091708.23782.1849028944161524150.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1663 Lines: 37 Dear List, On another list there is a discussion of an interesting book with this title written recently by Mark Singleton. In this book Singleton argues, provocatively, that modern hatha yoga practices are bearly a 100 years old, and that they have been heavily influenced by early 20th century European gymnastic regimens. As far as I am concerned there is nothing controversial about Singleton's interesting new claims. But early on in his book, Singleton tries to suggest that the term yoga in classical Sanskrit is not just one term. He claims that it is a series of homonyms \that mean different things in the Upanisads, the Gita, the Yoga Sutras, the Shaiva Tantras, etc. But, in my view this is a very embarrassing error for any Sankrit scholar to make. In English "to," and "two," and "too," are homonyms. Also, "threw" and "through" are homonyms. Aso, in some dialects of English, "marry," "merry," and "Mary," are all also homonyms. But in Sanskrit, there is is only one word, "yoga," which has only one form but any meanings. There are no homonyms of "yoga" in Sanskrit. There is just that single word. Singleton obviously has no idea what he is talking about here when it comes to the notion of homony,m. That's bad enough. But he is young, and maybe he can be excused for this slight error. But in her review of his otherwise good book Doniger repeats the same linguistic error: the Sanskit terrn "yoga" consists, in her view, of several so-called homonyms. This of course is very bad linguistics. I don't know what to think. Should we just be silent about such small errors? Or should we call them out? George Thompson From saf at SAFARMER.COM Tue Mar 8 06:58:56 2011 From: saf at SAFARMER.COM (Steve Farmer) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 11 22:58:56 -0800 Subject: Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091713.23782.2299589504291476225.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2750 Lines: 75 There is nothing wrong with either Mark Singleton's or Wendy Doniger's use of the word 'homonym', not that the question has any relevance to his book or her article (in the Times Literary Supplement this Sunday). Take a look in the Oxford English Dictionary under the word 'homonym.' You'll find that the first/primary definition of 'homonym' given there is: "1a. The same name or word used to denote different things." This is obviously the sense of the word that Singleton and Doniger had in mind. The second definition of 'homonym' in the Oxford English Dictionary is the limited technical sense of the word you have in mind: "1b. Philol. Applied to words having the same sound, but differing in meaning." It is rather obvious that that isn't what they had in mind. Clearly the word 'homonym' is itself a homonym (in the first sense). Maybe a linguist should know that? :^) S. Farmer On Mar 7, 2011, at 7:30 PM, George Thompson wrote: > Dear List, > > On another list there is a discussion of an interesting book with > this title > written recently by Mark Singleton. In this book Singleton argues, > provocatively, that modern hatha yoga practices are bearly a 100 > years old, > and that they have been heavily influenced by early 20th century > European > gymnastic regimens. As far as I am concerned there is nothing > controversial about Singleton's interesting new claims. > > But early on in his book, Singleton tries to suggest that the term > yoga in > classical Sanskrit is not just one term. He claims that it is a > series of > homonyms \that mean different things in the Upanisads, the Gita, > the Yoga > Sutras, the Shaiva Tantras, etc. > > But, in my view this is a very embarrassing error for any Sankrit > scholar to > make. In English "to," and "two," and "too," are homonyms. Also, > "threw" > and "through" are homonyms. Aso, in some dialects of English, > "marry," > "merry," and "Mary," are all also homonyms. > > But in Sanskrit, there is is only one word, "yoga," which has only > one form > but any meanings. There are no homonyms of "yoga" in Sanskrit. > There is > just that single word. Singleton obviously has no idea what he is > talking > about here when it comes to the notion of homony,m. That's bad > enough. But > he is young, and maybe he can be excused for this slight error. But > in her > review of his otherwise good book Doniger repeats the same > linguistic error: > the Sanskit terrn "yoga" consists, in her view, of several so-called > homonyms. > > This of course is very bad linguistics. > > I don't know what to think. Should we just be silent about such small > errors? Or should we call them out? > > George Thompson From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Tue Mar 8 12:00:00 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 11 07:00:00 -0500 Subject: Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091715.23782.4944022365648746522.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3985 Lines: 96 Look, What Singleton & Doniger have done is to sow even more confusion among an audience that is, we all know, already very much prone to confusion. So, in the coming semesters I can expect to have a handful of students who will declare very confidently that there are three different words "yoga" in the "Vedas," each with three different meanings. Even worse, there will be yoga teachers who will approach me after some talk or lecture, village explainers who typically and rather furtively solicit advice from me about how to pronounce this or that Sanskrit term, who will have disseminated this misinformation to their nice, naive, serene students. The word "yoga" and related verbal cognates are massively attested in the Rgveda, and their cognates in most other branches of IE [including Hittite] are massively attested as well. The history of this *one word* is thus well-known even to somewhat educated people who have never taken a linguistics course. But it doesn't matter. The village explainers will go about their business undeterred, now aided and abetted by Singleton & Doniger. et tu, S. Farmer? George Thompson On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 1:58 AM, Steve Farmer wrote: > There is nothing wrong with either Mark Singleton's or Wendy Doniger's use > of the word 'homonym', not that the question has any relevance to his book > or her article (in the Times Literary Supplement this Sunday). > > Take a look in the Oxford English Dictionary under the word 'homonym.' > You'll find that the first/primary definition of 'homonym' given there is: > "1a. The same name or word used to denote different things." This is > obviously the sense of the word that Singleton and Doniger had in mind. > > The second definition of 'homonym' in the Oxford English Dictionary is the > limited technical sense of the word you have in mind: "1b. Philol. Applied > to words having the same sound, but differing in meaning." It is rather > obvious that that isn't what they had in mind. > > Clearly the word 'homonym' is itself a homonym (in the first sense). Maybe > a linguist should know that? :^) > > S. Farmer > > > > On Mar 7, 2011, at 7:30 PM, George Thompson wrote: > > Dear List, >> >> On another list there is a discussion of an interesting book with this >> title >> written recently by Mark Singleton. In this book Singleton argues, >> provocatively, that modern hatha yoga practices are bearly a 100 years >> old, >> and that they have been heavily influenced by early 20th century European >> gymnastic regimens. As far as I am concerned there is nothing >> controversial about Singleton's interesting new claims. >> >> But early on in his book, Singleton tries to suggest that the term yoga in >> classical Sanskrit is not just one term. He claims that it is a series of >> homonyms \that mean different things in the Upanisads, the Gita, the Yoga >> Sutras, the Shaiva Tantras, etc. >> >> But, in my view this is a very embarrassing error for any Sankrit scholar >> to >> make. In English "to," and "two," and "too," are homonyms. Also, "threw" >> and "through" are homonyms. Aso, in some dialects of English, "marry," >> "merry," and "Mary," are all also homonyms. >> >> But in Sanskrit, there is is only one word, "yoga," which has only one >> form >> but any meanings. There are no homonyms of "yoga" in Sanskrit. There is >> just that single word. Singleton obviously has no idea what he is >> talking >> about here when it comes to the notion of homony,m. That's bad enough. >> But >> he is young, and maybe he can be excused for this slight error. But in >> her >> review of his otherwise good book Doniger repeats the same linguistic >> error: >> the Sanskit terrn "yoga" consists, in her view, of several so-called >> homonyms. >> >> This of course is very bad linguistics. >> >> I don't know what to think. Should we just be silent about such small >> errors? Or should we call them out? >> >> George Thompson >> > From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Tue Mar 8 12:19:22 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 11 07:19:22 -0500 Subject: Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton In-Reply-To: <79DAAEAC-7DF0-47A5-880B-5954A06DD381@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227091717.23782.3956498580193257694.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2854 Lines: 85 Hello Dominic, Right. This kind of traditional exegesis is probably the inspiration behind Singleton's use of the word "homonym." Poor choice of words, in my view. Best, George On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:23 PM, Dominic Goodall wrote: > Dear List, > > Is this not just a reflection of the old idea that the form yoga can be > derived from what have long been judged to be different verbal roots ? > Commentators tend to defend their view of what yoga really is by quoting > (from the Dh?tup??ha) either > > yujir yoge > or > yuja sam?dhau. > > Theistic commentators tend to favour the former (e.g. the tenth-century > Kashmirian N?r?ya?aka??ha commenting on M?gendratantra, yogap?da 2) . > Historical linguists may not believe these to be properly separate roots, > but the view that yoga and yoga can be homophones appears to be quite an old > one. > > Dominic Goodall > ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient, > 19, rue Dumas, > Pondicherry 605001 > > On 08-Mar-2011, at 9:00 AM, George Thompson wrote: > > > Dear List, > > > > On another list there is a discussion of an interesting book with this > title > > written recently by Mark Singleton. In this book Singleton argues, > > provocatively, that modern hatha yoga practices are bearly a 100 years > old, > > and that they have been heavily influenced by early 20th century European > > gymnastic regimens. As far as I am concerned there is nothing > > controversial about Singleton's interesting new claims. > > > > But early on in his book, Singleton tries to suggest that the term yoga > in > > classical Sanskrit is not just one term. He claims that it is a series > of > > homonyms \that mean different things in the Upanisads, the Gita, the > Yoga > > Sutras, the Shaiva Tantras, etc. > > > > But, in my view this is a very embarrassing error for any Sankrit scholar > to > > make. In English "to," and "two," and "too," are homonyms. Also, > "threw" > > and "through" are homonyms. Aso, in some dialects of English, "marry," > > "merry," and "Mary," are all also homonyms. > > > > But in Sanskrit, there is is only one word, "yoga," which has only one > form > > but any meanings. There are no homonyms of "yoga" in Sanskrit. There is > > just that single word. Singleton obviously has no idea what he is > talking > > about here when it comes to the notion of homony,m. That's bad enough. > But > > he is young, and maybe he can be excused for this slight error. But in > her > > review of his otherwise good book Doniger repeats the same linguistic > error: > > the Sanskit terrn "yoga" consists, in her view, of several so-called > > homonyms. > > > > This of course is very bad linguistics. > > > > I don't know what to think. Should we just be silent about such small > > errors? Or should we call them out? > > > > George Thompson > From fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU Tue Mar 8 16:21:17 2011 From: fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU (FRITS STAAL) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 11 08:21:17 -0800 Subject: Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091726.23782.10770057765888154047.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4944 Lines: 141 BUT: "the English word "yoga" is NOT a homonym of the Sanskrit word *yoga*. > Yes, this is exactly what came to my mind too. There are three > appearences > of yuj in the dh?tup??ha, in fact: > > - 4.68, yuja sam?dhau > - 7.7, yujir yoge > - 10.264, yuja ... sa?yamane > > accounting for yujyate, yunakti, and yojayati respectively, with slightly > different meanings. In contrast to N?r?ya?aka??ha, cited by Dominic, yoga > commentators like Bhoja derive yoga- (as in the Yogas?tra) from 4.68, thus > undermining, or even opposing, the "yoga means union" view. Indeed, yoga > is > sometimes glossed as "viyoga," i.e., separation (of, e.g., puru?a and > prak?ti). Clearly, the word is used from before the Mok?adharma onwards > in > many related but different senses. Where semantic drift (as opposed to > historical phonological discreteness) becomes homonymy is of course > debatable. But the fact that the grammarians distinguish three roots > suggests that the Sanskrit tradition internally sensed the word yoga as > being at least three homonyms. > > However, there's a more important point. I've just looked up the passage > about homonyms that has exercised George Thompson, and I think George has > missed the point that Singleton is making. See the snippet > herein > Google Books; and the relevant pages 15 and 16 from Singleton's book > are > attached to this email. After a passage addressing the issue of partisan > ownerships of the word and idea of yoga, Singleton suggests that it might > be > helpful to consider the English word "yoga" as a homonym of the Sanskrit > word *yoga*. He doesn't quite put it like that, but it's clear enough > that > that's what he means. The point of this suggested strategy is to > disconnect > the modern English use of the word from essentializing arguments about the > meaning and history of the Sanskrit word. Singleton isn't actually > arguing > that "yoga" in Sanskrit is a series of homonyms. > > Dominik with a k. > > > > On 8 March 2011 05:23, Dominic Goodall wrote: > >> Dear List, >> >> Is this not just a reflection of the old idea that the form yoga can be >> derived from what have long been judged to be different verbal roots ? >> Commentators tend to defend their view of what yoga really is by quoting >> (from the Dh?tup??ha) either >> >> yujir yoge >> or >> yuja sam?dhau. >> >> Theistic commentators tend to favour the former (e.g. the tenth-century >> Kashmirian N?r?ya?aka??ha commenting on M?gendratantra, yogap?da 2) . >> Historical linguists may not believe these to be properly separate >> roots, >> but the view that yoga and yoga can be homophones appears to be quite an >> old >> one. >> >> Dominic Goodall >> ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient, >> 19, rue Dumas, >> Pondicherry 605001 >> >> On 08-Mar-2011, at 9:00 AM, George Thompson wrote: >> >> > Dear List, >> > >> > On another list there is a discussion of an interesting book with this >> title >> > written recently by Mark Singleton. In this book Singleton argues, >> > provocatively, that modern hatha yoga practices are bearly a 100 >> years >> old, >> > and that they have been heavily influenced by early 20th century >> European >> > gymnastic regimens. As far as I am concerned there is nothing >> > controversial about Singleton's interesting new claims. >> > >> > But early on in his book, Singleton tries to suggest that the term >> yoga >> in >> > classical Sanskrit is not just one term. He claims that it is a >> series >> of >> > homonyms \that mean different things in the Upanisads, the Gita, the >> Yoga >> > Sutras, the Shaiva Tantras, etc. >> > >> > But, in my view this is a very embarrassing error for any Sankrit >> scholar >> to >> > make. In English "to," and "two," and "too," are homonyms. Also, >> "threw" >> > and "through" are homonyms. Aso, in some dialects of English, >> "marry," >> > "merry," and "Mary," are all also homonyms. >> > >> > But in Sanskrit, there is is only one word, "yoga," which has only one >> form >> > but any meanings. There are no homonyms of "yoga" in Sanskrit. There >> is >> > just that single word. Singleton obviously has no idea what he is >> talking >> > about here when it comes to the notion of homony,m. That's bad >> enough. >> But >> > he is young, and maybe he can be excused for this slight error. But >> in >> her >> > review of his otherwise good book Doniger repeats the same linguistic >> error: >> > the Sanskit terrn "yoga" consists, in her view, of several so-called >> > homonyms. >> > >> > This of course is very bad linguistics. >> > >> > I don't know what to think. Should we just be silent about such small >> > errors? Or should we call them out? >> > >> > George Thompson >> > Frits Staal www.fritsstaalberkeley.com From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Tue Mar 8 04:23:03 2011 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 11 09:53:03 +0530 Subject: Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091710.23782.6529288834950619674.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2459 Lines: 55 Dear List, Is this not just a reflection of the old idea that the form yoga can be derived from what have long been judged to be different verbal roots ? Commentators tend to defend their view of what yoga really is by quoting (from the Dh?tup??ha) either yujir yoge or yuja sam?dhau. Theistic commentators tend to favour the former (e.g. the tenth-century Kashmirian N?r?ya?aka??ha commenting on M?gendratantra, yogap?da 2) . Historical linguists may not believe these to be properly separate roots, but the view that yoga and yoga can be homophones appears to be quite an old one. Dominic Goodall ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient, 19, rue Dumas, Pondicherry 605001 On 08-Mar-2011, at 9:00 AM, George Thompson wrote: > Dear List, > > On another list there is a discussion of an interesting book with this title > written recently by Mark Singleton. In this book Singleton argues, > provocatively, that modern hatha yoga practices are bearly a 100 years old, > and that they have been heavily influenced by early 20th century European > gymnastic regimens. As far as I am concerned there is nothing > controversial about Singleton's interesting new claims. > > But early on in his book, Singleton tries to suggest that the term yoga in > classical Sanskrit is not just one term. He claims that it is a series of > homonyms \that mean different things in the Upanisads, the Gita, the Yoga > Sutras, the Shaiva Tantras, etc. > > But, in my view this is a very embarrassing error for any Sankrit scholar to > make. In English "to," and "two," and "too," are homonyms. Also, "threw" > and "through" are homonyms. Aso, in some dialects of English, "marry," > "merry," and "Mary," are all also homonyms. > > But in Sanskrit, there is is only one word, "yoga," which has only one form > but any meanings. There are no homonyms of "yoga" in Sanskrit. There is > just that single word. Singleton obviously has no idea what he is talking > about here when it comes to the notion of homony,m. That's bad enough. But > he is young, and maybe he can be excused for this slight error. But in her > review of his otherwise good book Doniger repeats the same linguistic error: > the Sanskit terrn "yoga" consists, in her view, of several so-called > homonyms. > > This of course is very bad linguistics. > > I don't know what to think. Should we just be silent about such small > errors? Or should we call them out? > > George Thompson From saf at SAFARMER.COM Tue Mar 8 18:41:56 2011 From: saf at SAFARMER.COM (Steve Farmer) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 11 10:41:56 -0800 Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton In-Reply-To: <639001.95913.qm@web27302.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227091738.23782.18435198532411598814.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1945 Lines: 49 Alex Michaels writes: > A homonym is generally a word with the same spelling (homograph) and > the same > prononciation (homophon), but different meanings. In this sense yoga > (Skt.) and > yoga (Engl.) might be regarded as homonyms. I think it is this what > Singleton > meant. But only if both "yogas" really mean something different, and > this > remains disputed. The claim that there are manifold "yogas" - and not just two - isn't new and isn't in dispute among serious yoga historians. E. Washburn Hopkins' was already talking about multiple "yogas" in his classic 1901 study, "Yoga-Technique in the Great Epic," in JAOS, which can be read in full here: http://tinyurl.com/4t8u9x4 Hopkins introduced the term 'yogas' himself on p. 348. The work covers a lot of linguistic ground beyond the Mahabharata, in which multiple senses of the word 'yoga' and cognate terms are manifold, as Hopkins pointed out at length. David Gordon White also often makes the same point, most recently in his long discussion of the evolution of premodern ambiguities in the term in _Sinister Yogis_ (2008). White cites here among things Peter Schreiner's observation that the term shows up nearly 900 times in the Mahabharata, with manifold senses, many in conflict, traced earlier by Hopkins. White's book in press on the reception of the _Yoga Sutras_ (including its commentarial traditions) also reportedly deals with the same topic in later medieval eras. In other words, "The same name or word used to denote different things," as the primary definition of 'homonym' has it in the OED. What recent yoga historians including Elizabeth De Michelis, Joseph Alter, David Gordon White, Mark Singleton, and others are trying to unwind in medieval and modern times are all these multiple senses, just as Hopkins was doing in his classic study of ancient uses of the term over 100 years ago. Steve Farmer From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Tue Mar 8 15:42:17 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 11 10:42:17 -0500 Subject: Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091724.23782.13204689753679132360.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4864 Lines: 134 Hello Dominik, I admire your willingness to seek a more generous interpretation of the passage from Singleton [generosity is a good thing!], but I still don't buy the idea that the English word 'yoga' is a homonym of the Sansrit word 'yoga.' The English word is a loanword from Sanskrit. So, in my view, there is still only one word here. 'Yoga' in the RV doesn't mean the same thing as 'yoga' in the Gita, but it is after all the same word, right? Or am I just going crazy? Look, would it be correct to say that the English word 'mantra' is a homonym of the Sanskrit word 'mantra'? It doesn't matter that 'mantra' in English may have a different set of meanings or connotations than the Sanskrit word. Is the English phrase 'habeas corpus' a homonym of the Latin phrase? All of this multiplication of words and phrases troubles me. Otherwise, I'm just fine. All the best, George On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: [snip] > However, there's a more important point. I've just looked up the passage > about homonyms that has exercised George Thompson, and I think George has > missed the point that Singleton is making. See the snippet > here< > http://books.google.com/books?ei=0j12TZLbCcbcsgbzlZSOBQ&ct=result&id=OrosAQAAIAAJ&dq=yoga+body+singleton&q=homonym#search_anchor > >in > Google Books; and the relevant pages 15 and 16 from Singleton's book > are > attached to this email. After a passage addressing the issue of partisan > ownerships of the word and idea of yoga, Singleton suggests that it might > be > helpful to consider the English word "yoga" as a homonym of the Sanskrit > word *yoga*. He doesn't quite put it like that, but it's clear enough that > that's what he means. The point of this suggested strategy is to > disconnect > the modern English use of the word from essentializing arguments about the > meaning and history of the Sanskrit word. Singleton isn't actually arguing > that "yoga" in Sanskrit is a series of homonyms. > > Dominik with a k. > > > > On 8 March 2011 05:23, Dominic Goodall wrote: > > > Dear List, > > > > Is this not just a reflection of the old idea that the form yoga can be > > derived from what have long been judged to be different verbal roots ? > > Commentators tend to defend their view of what yoga really is by quoting > > (from the Dh?tup??ha) either > > > > yujir yoge > > or > > yuja sam?dhau. > > > > Theistic commentators tend to favour the former (e.g. the tenth-century > > Kashmirian N?r?ya?aka??ha commenting on M?gendratantra, yogap?da 2) . > > Historical linguists may not believe these to be properly separate > roots, > > but the view that yoga and yoga can be homophones appears to be quite an > old > > one. > > > > Dominic Goodall > > ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient, > > 19, rue Dumas, > > Pondicherry 605001 > > > > On 08-Mar-2011, at 9:00 AM, George Thompson wrote: > > > > > Dear List, > > > > > > On another list there is a discussion of an interesting book with this > > title > > > written recently by Mark Singleton. In this book Singleton argues, > > > provocatively, that modern hatha yoga practices are bearly a 100 years > > old, > > > and that they have been heavily influenced by early 20th century > European > > > gymnastic regimens. As far as I am concerned there is nothing > > > controversial about Singleton's interesting new claims. > > > > > > But early on in his book, Singleton tries to suggest that the term yoga > > in > > > classical Sanskrit is not just one term. He claims that it is a series > > of > > > homonyms \that mean different things in the Upanisads, the Gita, the > > Yoga > > > Sutras, the Shaiva Tantras, etc. > > > > > > But, in my view this is a very embarrassing error for any Sankrit > scholar > > to > > > make. In English "to," and "two," and "too," are homonyms. Also, > > "threw" > > > and "through" are homonyms. Aso, in some dialects of English, "marry," > > > "merry," and "Mary," are all also homonyms. > > > > > > But in Sanskrit, there is is only one word, "yoga," which has only one > > form > > > but any meanings. There are no homonyms of "yoga" in Sanskrit. There > is > > > just that single word. Singleton obviously has no idea what he is > > talking > > > about here when it comes to the notion of homony,m. That's bad enough. > > But > > > he is young, and maybe he can be excused for this slight error. But in > > her > > > review of his otherwise good book Doniger repeats the same linguistic > > error: > > > the Sanskit terrn "yoga" consists, in her view, of several so-called > > > homonyms. > > > > > > This of course is very bad linguistics. > > > > > > I don't know what to think. Should we just be silent about such small > > > errors? Or should we call them out? > > > > > > George Thompson > > > From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Tue Mar 8 17:41:05 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 11 12:41:05 -0500 Subject: Aw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton In-Reply-To: <1167751329.1536911.1299603869511.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail07.arcor-online.net> Message-ID: <161227091736.23782.14172823147561515641.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2145 Lines: 62 Hello all, I learned the distinction between etymology & usage nearly 30 years ago -- from Frits Staal. And since I am a Vedicist I very quickly learned to distinguish between homonymy and polysemy, because there is a long literature about polysemy in the Rgveda [where polysemy flourishes like lotus leaves]. And as a historical linguist, I am very accustomed to the fact that the meanings of words are always in motion. But I have never encountered the idea that when a word changes its meaning it becomes a homonym of itself. As Domink suggests, we are stepping into Alice in Wonderland territory here [i.e., Humpty Dumpty's curious word usage] . Yes, I know the history of the word 'yoga.' It has had a long, rich life [even before it got to India]. I think I understand what Singleton is doing. Because of the very rich polysemy of the word over 3000 years of its life in India, people are easily confused [as years of teaching have shown me, and as Singleton's book nicely illustrates]. He wants to extinguish the polysemy, by replicating dozens of little homomyns. But I don't think that this move frees us from the complexity of the issue. Time to run off to my next class. George On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Philipp Maas wrote: > Dear George, > > could it be that your notion of homonymy is heavily based on etymological > considerations? Etymology is, however, not the decisive criterion to answer > the difficult question of how to define homonymy in contrast to polysemy. > This problem is briefly discussed in Hadumod Bu?mann: Lexikon der > Sprachwissenschaft. Zweite, v?llig neu bearbeitete Auflage. Stuttgart 1990 > (Kr?ners Taschenausgabe 452), p. 314 a-b, s.v. Homonymie and p. 593 a-b, > s.v. Polysemie. (An English translation of this work is available under the > title ?Routledge Dictionary of Language and Linguistics?.) > > With best regards, > > Philipp > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Philipp Maas > > Universit?t Wien > Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet, und Buddhismuskunde > Bereich S?dasienkunde > Uni-Campus AAKH > Spitalgasse 2, Hof 2.1 > 1090 Wien > Austria > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Mar 8 14:48:47 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 11 15:48:47 +0100 Subject: Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton In-Reply-To: <79DAAEAC-7DF0-47A5-880B-5954A06DD381@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227091720.23782.4662986338574278407.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4883 Lines: 118 Yes, this is exactly what came to my mind too. There are three appearences of yuj in the dh?tup??ha, in fact: - 4.68, yuja sam?dhau - 7.7, yujir yoge - 10.264, yuja ... sa?yamane accounting for yujyate, yunakti, and yojayati respectively, with slightly different meanings. In contrast to N?r?ya?aka??ha, cited by Dominic, yoga commentators like Bhoja derive yoga- (as in the Yogas?tra) from 4.68, thus undermining, or even opposing, the "yoga means union" view. Indeed, yoga is sometimes glossed as "viyoga," i.e., separation (of, e.g., puru?a and prak?ti). Clearly, the word is used from before the Mok?adharma onwards in many related but different senses. Where semantic drift (as opposed to historical phonological discreteness) becomes homonymy is of course debatable. But the fact that the grammarians distinguish three roots suggests that the Sanskrit tradition internally sensed the word yoga as being at least three homonyms. However, there's a more important point. I've just looked up the passage about homonyms that has exercised George Thompson, and I think George has missed the point that Singleton is making. See the snippet herein Google Books; and the relevant pages 15 and 16 from Singleton's book are attached to this email. After a passage addressing the issue of partisan ownerships of the word and idea of yoga, Singleton suggests that it might be helpful to consider the English word "yoga" as a homonym of the Sanskrit word *yoga*. He doesn't quite put it like that, but it's clear enough that that's what he means. The point of this suggested strategy is to disconnect the modern English use of the word from essentializing arguments about the meaning and history of the Sanskrit word. Singleton isn't actually arguing that "yoga" in Sanskrit is a series of homonyms. Dominik with a k. On 8 March 2011 05:23, Dominic Goodall wrote: > Dear List, > > Is this not just a reflection of the old idea that the form yoga can be > derived from what have long been judged to be different verbal roots ? > Commentators tend to defend their view of what yoga really is by quoting > (from the Dh?tup??ha) either > > yujir yoge > or > yuja sam?dhau. > > Theistic commentators tend to favour the former (e.g. the tenth-century > Kashmirian N?r?ya?aka??ha commenting on M?gendratantra, yogap?da 2) . > Historical linguists may not believe these to be properly separate roots, > but the view that yoga and yoga can be homophones appears to be quite an old > one. > > Dominic Goodall > ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient, > 19, rue Dumas, > Pondicherry 605001 > > On 08-Mar-2011, at 9:00 AM, George Thompson wrote: > > > Dear List, > > > > On another list there is a discussion of an interesting book with this > title > > written recently by Mark Singleton. In this book Singleton argues, > > provocatively, that modern hatha yoga practices are bearly a 100 years > old, > > and that they have been heavily influenced by early 20th century European > > gymnastic regimens. As far as I am concerned there is nothing > > controversial about Singleton's interesting new claims. > > > > But early on in his book, Singleton tries to suggest that the term yoga > in > > classical Sanskrit is not just one term. He claims that it is a series > of > > homonyms \that mean different things in the Upanisads, the Gita, the > Yoga > > Sutras, the Shaiva Tantras, etc. > > > > But, in my view this is a very embarrassing error for any Sankrit scholar > to > > make. In English "to," and "two," and "too," are homonyms. Also, > "threw" > > and "through" are homonyms. Aso, in some dialects of English, "marry," > > "merry," and "Mary," are all also homonyms. > > > > But in Sanskrit, there is is only one word, "yoga," which has only one > form > > but any meanings. There are no homonyms of "yoga" in Sanskrit. There is > > just that single word. Singleton obviously has no idea what he is > talking > > about here when it comes to the notion of homony,m. That's bad enough. > But > > he is young, and maybe he can be excused for this slight error. But in > her > > review of his otherwise good book Doniger repeats the same linguistic > error: > > the Sanskit terrn "yoga" consists, in her view, of several so-called > > homonyms. > > > > This of course is very bad linguistics. > > > > I don't know what to think. Should we just be silent about such small > > errors? Or should we call them out? > > > > George Thompson > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: homonym.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 42542 bytes Desc: not available URL: From axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE Tue Mar 8 16:43:04 2011 From: axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE (Axel Michaels) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 11 16:43:04 +0000 Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton In-Reply-To: <135ae9e888cf16ee7329aa3a04081267.squirrel@calmail.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227091729.23782.2578684281512887283.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5528 Lines: 160 A homonym is generally a word with the same spelling (homograph) and the same prononciation (homophon), but different meanings. In this sense yoga (Skt.) and yoga (Engl.) might be regarded as homonyms. I think it is this what Singleton meant. But only if both "yogas" really mean something different, and this remains disputed. Best, Axel Michaels ________________________________ Von: FRITS STAAL An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Gesendet: Dienstag, den 8. M?rz 2011, 21:51:17 Uhr Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton BUT: "the English word "yoga" is NOT a homonym of the Sanskrit word *yoga*. > Yes, this is exactly what came to my mind too. There are three > appearences > of yuj in the dh?tup??ha, in fact: > > - 4.68, yuja sam?dhau > - 7.7, yujir yoge > - 10.264, yuja ... sa?yamane > > accounting for yujyate, yunakti, and yojayati respectively, with slightly > different meanings. In contrast to N?r?ya?aka??ha, cited by Dominic, yoga > commentators like Bhoja derive yoga- (as in the Yogas?tra) from 4.68, thus > undermining, or even opposing, the "yoga means union" view. Indeed, yoga > is > sometimes glossed as "viyoga," i.e., separation (of, e.g., puru?a and > prak?ti). Clearly, the word is used from before the Mok?adharma onwards > in > many related but different senses. Where semantic drift (as opposed to > historical phonological discreteness) becomes homonymy is of course > debatable. But the fact that the grammarians distinguish three roots > suggests that the Sanskrit tradition internally sensed the word yoga as > being at least three homonyms. > > However, there's a more important point. I've just looked up the passage > about homonyms that has exercised George Thompson, and I think George has > missed the point that Singleton is making. See the snippet >herein >n > Google Books; and the relevant pages 15 and 16 from Singleton's book > are > attached to this email. After a passage addressing the issue of partisan > ownerships of the word and idea of yoga, Singleton suggests that it might > be > helpful to consider the English word "yoga" as a homonym of the Sanskrit > word *yoga*. He doesn't quite put it like that, but it's clear enough > that > that's what he means. The point of this suggested strategy is to > disconnect > the modern English use of the word from essentializing arguments about the > meaning and history of the Sanskrit word. Singleton isn't actually > arguing > that "yoga" in Sanskrit is a series of homonyms. > > Dominik with a k. > > > > On 8 March 2011 05:23, Dominic Goodall wrote: > >> Dear List, >> >> Is this not just a reflection of the old idea that the form yoga can be >> derived from what have long been judged to be different verbal roots ? >> Commentators tend to defend their view of what yoga really is by quoting >> (from the Dh?tup??ha) either >> >> yujir yoge >> or >> yuja sam?dhau. >> >> Theistic commentators tend to favour the former (e.g. the tenth-century >> Kashmirian N?r?ya?aka??ha commenting on M?gendratantra, yogap?da 2) . >> Historical linguists may not believe these to be properly separate >> roots, >> but the view that yoga and yoga can be homophones appears to be quite an >> old >> one. >> >> Dominic Goodall >> ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient, >> 19, rue Dumas, >> Pondicherry 605001 >> >> On 08-Mar-2011, at 9:00 AM, George Thompson wrote: >> >> > Dear List, >> > >> > On another list there is a discussion of an interesting book with this >> title >> > written recently by Mark Singleton. In this book Singleton argues, >> > provocatively, that modern hatha yoga practices are bearly a 100 >> years >> old, >> > and that they have been heavily influenced by early 20th century >> European >> > gymnastic regimens. As far as I am concerned there is nothing >> > controversial about Singleton's interesting new claims. >> > >> > But early on in his book, Singleton tries to suggest that the term >> yoga >> in >> > classical Sanskrit is not just one term. He claims that it is a >> series >> of >> > homonyms \that mean different things in the Upanisads, the Gita, the >> Yoga >> > Sutras, the Shaiva Tantras, etc. >> > >> > But, in my view this is a very embarrassing error for any Sankrit >> scholar >> to >> > make. In English "to," and "two," and "too," are homonyms. Also, >> "threw" >> > and "through" are homonyms. Aso, in some dialects of English, >> "marry," >> > "merry," and "Mary," are all also homonyms. >> > >> > But in Sanskrit, there is is only one word, "yoga," which has only one >> form >> > but any meanings. There are no homonyms of "yoga" in Sanskrit. There >> is >> > just that single word. Singleton obviously has no idea what he is >> talking >> > about here when it comes to the notion of homony,m. That's bad >> enough. >> But >> > he is young, and maybe he can be excused for this slight error. But >> in >> her >> > review of his otherwise good book Doniger repeats the same linguistic >> error: >> > the Sanskit terrn "yoga" consists, in her view, of several so-called >> > homonyms. >> > >> > This of course is very bad linguistics. >> > >> > I don't know what to think. Should we just be silent about such small >> > errors? Or should we call them out? >> > >> > George Thompson >> > Frits Staal www.fritsstaalberkeley.com From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Mar 8 16:57:54 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 11 17:57:54 +0100 Subject: Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091731.23782.13373762937821728173.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5900 Lines: 167 No, yes, but. :-) What Singleton says is, as I read him, let's do a Gedanken experiment, let's treat English "yoga" as if it were a different word than the Sanskrit, and see whether that helps us keep things in order. The main point he's making, and I think he makes it adequately clearly, is that people (practitioners) get themselves into a hissy fit over the "true" meaning of the word. If we just leave all that behind, and allow the English "yoga" have it's own history and meaning, we'll introduce the historical dimension into our thinking, and that will help. I don't have the book to hand right now, but Singleton uses several conditionals to make it clear that he's doing an "as if" experiment. "If we can agree to proceed on this basis ..." or some such phrase. D On 8 March 2011 16:42, George Thompson wrote: > Hello Dominik, > > I admire your willingness to seek a more generous interpretation of the > passage from Singleton [generosity is a good thing!], but I still don't buy > the idea that the English word 'yoga' is a homonym of the Sansrit word > 'yoga.' The English word is a loanword from Sanskrit. So, in my view, > there is still only one word here. 'Yoga' in the RV doesn't mean the same > thing as 'yoga' in the Gita, but it is after all the same word, right? Or > am I just going crazy? > > Look, would it be correct to say that the English word 'mantra' is a > homonym of the Sanskrit word 'mantra'? It doesn't matter that 'mantra' in > English may have a different set of meanings or connotations than the > Sanskrit word. > > Is the English phrase 'habeas corpus' a homonym of the Latin phrase? > > All of this multiplication of words and phrases troubles me. > > Otherwise, I'm just fine. > > All the best, > > George > > On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > [snip] > > >> However, there's a more important point. I've just looked up the passage >> about homonyms that has exercised George Thompson, and I think George has >> missed the point that Singleton is making. See the snippet >> here< >> http://books.google.com/books?ei=0j12TZLbCcbcsgbzlZSOBQ&ct=result&id=OrosAQAAIAAJ&dq=yoga+body+singleton&q=homonym#search_anchor >> >in >> >> Google Books; and the relevant pages 15 and 16 from Singleton's book >> are >> attached to this email. After a passage addressing the issue of partisan >> ownerships of the word and idea of yoga, Singleton suggests that it might >> be >> helpful to consider the English word "yoga" as a homonym of the Sanskrit >> word *yoga*. He doesn't quite put it like that, but it's clear enough >> that >> that's what he means. The point of this suggested strategy is to >> disconnect >> the modern English use of the word from essentializing arguments about the >> meaning and history of the Sanskrit word. Singleton isn't actually >> arguing >> that "yoga" in Sanskrit is a series of homonyms. >> >> Dominik with a k. >> >> >> >> On 8 March 2011 05:23, Dominic Goodall wrote: >> >> > Dear List, >> > >> > Is this not just a reflection of the old idea that the form yoga can be >> > derived from what have long been judged to be different verbal roots ? >> > Commentators tend to defend their view of what yoga really is by quoting >> > (from the Dh?tup??ha) either >> > >> > yujir yoge >> > or >> > yuja sam?dhau. >> > >> > Theistic commentators tend to favour the former (e.g. the tenth-century >> > Kashmirian N?r?ya?aka??ha commenting on M?gendratantra, yogap?da 2) . >> > Historical linguists may not believe these to be properly separate >> roots, >> > but the view that yoga and yoga can be homophones appears to be quite an >> old >> > one. >> > >> > Dominic Goodall >> > ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient, >> > 19, rue Dumas, >> > Pondicherry 605001 >> > >> > On 08-Mar-2011, at 9:00 AM, George Thompson wrote: >> > >> > > Dear List, >> > > >> > > On another list there is a discussion of an interesting book with this >> > title >> > > written recently by Mark Singleton. In this book Singleton argues, >> > > provocatively, that modern hatha yoga practices are bearly a 100 >> years >> > old, >> > > and that they have been heavily influenced by early 20th century >> European >> > > gymnastic regimens. As far as I am concerned there is nothing >> > > controversial about Singleton's interesting new claims. >> > > >> > > But early on in his book, Singleton tries to suggest that the term >> yoga >> > in >> > > classical Sanskrit is not just one term. He claims that it is a >> series >> > of >> > > homonyms \that mean different things in the Upanisads, the Gita, the >> > Yoga >> > > Sutras, the Shaiva Tantras, etc. >> > > >> > > But, in my view this is a very embarrassing error for any Sankrit >> scholar >> > to >> > > make. In English "to," and "two," and "too," are homonyms. Also, >> > "threw" >> > > and "through" are homonyms. Aso, in some dialects of English, >> "marry," >> > > "merry," and "Mary," are all also homonyms. >> > > >> > > But in Sanskrit, there is is only one word, "yoga," which has only one >> > form >> > > but any meanings. There are no homonyms of "yoga" in Sanskrit. There >> is >> > > just that single word. Singleton obviously has no idea what he is >> > talking >> > > about here when it comes to the notion of homony,m. That's bad >> enough. >> > But >> > > he is young, and maybe he can be excused for this slight error. But >> in >> > her >> > > review of his otherwise good book Doniger repeats the same linguistic >> > error: >> > > the Sanskit terrn "yoga" consists, in her view, of several so-called >> > > homonyms. >> > > >> > > This of course is very bad linguistics. >> > > >> > > I don't know what to think. Should we just be silent about such small >> > > errors? Or should we call them out? >> > > >> > > George Thompson >> > >> > > From phmaas at ARCOR.DE Tue Mar 8 17:04:29 2011 From: phmaas at ARCOR.DE (Philipp Maas) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 11 18:04:29 +0100 Subject: Aw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton In-Reply-To: <135ae9e888cf16ee7329aa3a04081267.squirrel@calmail.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227091733.23782.15609381646769343753.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 817 Lines: 23 Dear George, could it be that your notion of homonymy is heavily based on etymological considerations? Etymology is, however, not the decisive criterion to answer the difficult question of how to define homonymy in contrast to polysemy. This problem is briefly discussed in Hadumod Bu?mann: Lexikon der Sprachwissenschaft. Zweite, v?llig neu bearbeitete Auflage. Stuttgart 1990 (Kr?ners Taschenausgabe 452), p. 314 a-b, s.v. Homonymie and p. 593 a-b, s.v. Polysemie. (An English translation of this work is available under the title ?Routledge Dictionary of Language and Linguistics?.) With best regards, Philipp ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Philipp Maas Universit?t Wien Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet, und Buddhismuskunde Bereich S?dasienkunde Uni-Campus AAKH Spitalgasse 2, Hof 2.1 1090 Wien Austria From saf at SAFARMER.COM Wed Mar 9 03:32:06 2011 From: saf at SAFARMER.COM (Steve Farmer) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 11 19:32:06 -0800 Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091749.23782.2845980694702404694.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 449 Lines: 17 George Thompson writes: > I agree with Singleton's take on > the development of the hatha-yoga fad among Euros. But I think that > his > suggestion that 'yoga' is an orientalist invention is probably a > deliberate, > and also a stupid, provocation. Mark doesn't say anything even vaguely like this, in any of his writings. Have you actually read his works? Can you cite anything from him that suggests this interpretation? S. Farmer From heike.moser at UNI-TUEBINGEN.DE Tue Mar 8 19:48:11 2011 From: heike.moser at UNI-TUEBINGEN.DE (Heike Moser) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 11 20:48:11 +0100 Subject: Karmendu Shishir Shodhagar Press Release: The first international literary archive of Hindi little magazines Message-ID: <161227091743.23782.6192241787208989371.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3929 Lines: 87 -- Please send queries and suggestions directly to: Divyaraj Amiya -- Karmendu Shishir Shodhagar Press Release: The first international literary archive of Hindi little magazines It is with great pleasure that we announce the release of the Karmendu Shishir Shodhagar website specializing in the digitized cataloguing of Hindi literary journals (Laghu Patrika) at the Department of Indology and Comparative Religion, University of Tuebingen, Germany. This is the first international website of its kind for Hindi little magazines. Aim The website is designed to provide access to a digitally catalogued literary archive of more than 4500 issues of Laghu Patrikas for students and scholars of Modern South Asian Studies and related areas. This collection includes handwritten letters, photographs and audio-visual material on Hindi writers and literary critics. It houses rare literary magazines of the 19th century (for example Bharatendu and Anand Kadambini) including publications from Munshi Naval Kishore Press of Lucknow in Urdu, Persian and Hindi as well as the widely read Laghu Patrikas and literary journals of our times, like Pehal, Hans, Shesh or Katha. At Karmendu Shishir Shodhagar one can have a firsthand experience of the historic journey of Hindi literary magazines in the last 120 years. This unique archive is a window to the massive social and political upheavals and changes that took place between the earliest issues of Anand Kadambini (1883) edited by Badari Narayan Chaudhary until India?s Independence (1947) and those of Yuddharat Aam Aadmi (2005) edited by Ramanika Gupta as dalits (untouchables), women, adivasis (indigenous peoples), linguistic and religious minorities have started making contributions in recent times to the Hindi literary canon in a big way. The Team This literary archive would have been unthinkable without the donation and the immense ground work done by Karmendu Shishir, literary critic and writer. His team of close friends and well-wishers in India and in Germany provided us great support in bringing this archive to life. A part of this collection consists of contributions made by Prof. Dr. Vasudha Dalmia, University of California, Berkeley. Future Plans Beginning with the first installment of digitized archiving and providing its internet web based access http://www.kss.uni-tuebingen.de to the students and scholars of Modern South Asian Studies and Modern Hindi and Urdu literature, Karmendu Shishir Shodhagar has plans to further include literary magazines of the last 150 years of the Hindi-Urdu region. We are already working with a team of literary experts in Delhi (India) and Karachi (Pakistan) to survey and document the significant achievements of these two literary spheres. The project of digitization and cataloguing will include an audio-visual chapter so that the literary journey of the writers and editors of little magazines can be recorded and curated for future generations. In coming months a quarterly audio-visual survey of Urdu and Hindi literary magazines and events will be accessible at the KSS Homepage. This channel shall present at regular interval a competent and sleek overview of literary productions and activities in the third largest language of the world. We appeal to the writers, critics and editors of literary magazines in India and Pakistan to help us in archiving Hindi and Urdu literary magazines and making them available for students and scholars. A Hindi version of the website will be accessible online soon. With best compliments, Divyaraj Amiya, M.Phil. Project Coordinator -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: KSS_PressRelease_FINAL.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 258998 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Wed Mar 9 01:56:02 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 11 20:56:02 -0500 Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton In-Reply-To: <002A7A1D-EA1D-4D41-9B77-709A2CC6A701@safarmer.com> Message-ID: <161227091747.23782.5886719481884930253.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1755 Lines: 36 The claim that there are manifold yogas is 2000 years old and it is found in the Gita, so talk about multiple yogas is a lot older than 100 years, and we don't need Hopkins [or any of the others mentioned] to tell us so. That was one of the fundamental messages of the Gita: there are multiple yogas, three in fact, according to that not-minor, and not-late, text, at least by Farmer's standards. By the way, are those of us who are non-Vedicists aware of the fact that there is an interesting claim from Oberlies that the term 'yoga' in the compound yoga-kshema [a hapax] refers to periods of rest [kshema] vs. periods of mobility [i.e., warfare, cattle-raiding] in the RV? So, does this imply that the term 'yoga' has some roots in Vedic terrorism [well, if we don't want to go there, how about 'Vedic aggression']? I have suggested in print some years ago [before Oberlies] that indigenous Indic yoga tradition may have had its roots in Vedic martial arts tradition. What I detect in Singleton's careful choice of words in his book is that he wants to suggest that among all of the known homonymical yogas in the universe, the main one is this new one invented a hundred years ago by Euro-occultists, which was subsequently embraced by neo-Hindu yogins. No, I don't buy his claim. "Yoga" has been a significant topic of discussion in India for more than 2000 years. It wasn't a discourse invented by 19th cent. British gymnasts. I agree with Singleton's take on the development of the hatha-yoga fad among Euros. But I think that his suggestion that 'yoga' is an orientalist invention is probably a deliberate, and also a stupid, provocation. So now the Hindutva mobs will hate us even more. Okay, I guess, if we have to.... George From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Wed Mar 9 08:29:46 2011 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 09:29:46 +0100 Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091752.23782.4164894682524935731.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 770 Lines: 23 Is there any attested dvandva 'yoga-yoga' like which could prove that is is not only a plurality of meanings (polysemy) for one same word (so perceived by common Sanskrit speakers - I do not talk here about indigenous grammarians classifying different verbal root-derivatives, or 'yoga'-theoreticians commenting on the plurality of yoga-'real' techniques or ideas), being myself more than skeptical about a true 'homonymy' in the narrow and common meaning of the word. Best wishes, Christophe Vielle -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ http://www.uclouvain.be/356389.html -- Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of storage free. http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ From adheesh1 at GMAIL.COM Wed Mar 9 18:11:47 2011 From: adheesh1 at GMAIL.COM (Adheesh Sathaye) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 10:11:47 -0800 Subject: Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091776.23782.7230476806100522969.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6211 Lines: 155 With caveats that I have not read Singleton's work, and that generally I try to stay away from yoga and yog?s as much as I can, I just wanted to point out what I've always thought to be a fascinating linguistic feature of modern Marathi: In contemporary Marathi there are, in fact, two distinct heterophones: 'yog' (with meanings of 'opportunity', 'chance', 'fortuity', and so on) and 'yog?', pronounced with a long vowel (but still masculine in gender) and bearing only the meaning of English "yoga" as exercise. One never uses the former for the latter or vice versa. I'm not sure exactly how this 'yog?' would be written in newspapers and so on, but would not be surprised to find it appearing as "????". (indeed there are numerous hits on Google for '????'). It seems safe to say that this latter "Yog?" in Marathi is a double-borrowing--first borrowed into English from Sanskrit (or perhaps S. Indian languages) and then re-imported into Marathi, whereupon it acquired both the distinct long vowel and a place in the language as a distinct word. A linguistic case of the "Pizza Effect" if you will. All best wishes, Adheesh ---- Adheesh Sathaye Department of Asian Studies University of British Columbia On Mar 8, 2011, at 7:42 AM, George Thompson wrote: > Hello Dominik, > > I admire your willingness to seek a more generous interpretation of the > passage from Singleton [generosity is a good thing!], but I still don't buy > the idea that the English word 'yoga' is a homonym of the Sansrit word > 'yoga.' The English word is a loanword from Sanskrit. So, in my view, > there is still only one word here. 'Yoga' in the RV doesn't mean the same > thing as 'yoga' in the Gita, but it is after all the same word, right? Or > am I just going crazy? > > Look, would it be correct to say that the English word 'mantra' is a homonym > of the Sanskrit word 'mantra'? It doesn't matter that 'mantra' in English > may have a different set of meanings or connotations than the Sanskrit word. > > Is the English phrase 'habeas corpus' a homonym of the Latin phrase? > > All of this multiplication of words and phrases troubles me. > > Otherwise, I'm just fine. > > All the best, > > George > > On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > [snip] > > >> However, there's a more important point. I've just looked up the passage >> about homonyms that has exercised George Thompson, and I think George has >> missed the point that Singleton is making. See the snippet >> here< >> http://books.google.com/books?ei=0j12TZLbCcbcsgbzlZSOBQ&ct=result&id=OrosAQAAIAAJ&dq=yoga+body+singleton&q=homonym#search_anchor >>> in >> Google Books; and the relevant pages 15 and 16 from Singleton's book >> are >> attached to this email. After a passage addressing the issue of partisan >> ownerships of the word and idea of yoga, Singleton suggests that it might >> be >> helpful to consider the English word "yoga" as a homonym of the Sanskrit >> word *yoga*. He doesn't quite put it like that, but it's clear enough that >> that's what he means. The point of this suggested strategy is to >> disconnect >> the modern English use of the word from essentializing arguments about the >> meaning and history of the Sanskrit word. Singleton isn't actually arguing >> that "yoga" in Sanskrit is a series of homonyms. >> >> Dominik with a k. >> >> >> >> On 8 March 2011 05:23, Dominic Goodall wrote: >> >>> Dear List, >>> >>> Is this not just a reflection of the old idea that the form yoga can be >>> derived from what have long been judged to be different verbal roots ? >>> Commentators tend to defend their view of what yoga really is by quoting >>> (from the Dh?tup??ha) either >>> >>> yujir yoge >>> or >>> yuja sam?dhau. >>> >>> Theistic commentators tend to favour the former (e.g. the tenth-century >>> Kashmirian N?r?ya?aka??ha commenting on M?gendratantra, yogap?da 2) . >>> Historical linguists may not believe these to be properly separate >> roots, >>> but the view that yoga and yoga can be homophones appears to be quite an >> old >>> one. >>> >>> Dominic Goodall >>> ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient, >>> 19, rue Dumas, >>> Pondicherry 605001 >>> >>> On 08-Mar-2011, at 9:00 AM, George Thompson wrote: >>> >>>> Dear List, >>>> >>>> On another list there is a discussion of an interesting book with this >>> title >>>> written recently by Mark Singleton. In this book Singleton argues, >>>> provocatively, that modern hatha yoga practices are bearly a 100 years >>> old, >>>> and that they have been heavily influenced by early 20th century >> European >>>> gymnastic regimens. As far as I am concerned there is nothing >>>> controversial about Singleton's interesting new claims. >>>> >>>> But early on in his book, Singleton tries to suggest that the term yoga >>> in >>>> classical Sanskrit is not just one term. He claims that it is a series >>> of >>>> homonyms \that mean different things in the Upanisads, the Gita, the >>> Yoga >>>> Sutras, the Shaiva Tantras, etc. >>>> >>>> But, in my view this is a very embarrassing error for any Sankrit >> scholar >>> to >>>> make. In English "to," and "two," and "too," are homonyms. Also, >>> "threw" >>>> and "through" are homonyms. Aso, in some dialects of English, "marry," >>>> "merry," and "Mary," are all also homonyms. >>>> >>>> But in Sanskrit, there is is only one word, "yoga," which has only one >>> form >>>> but any meanings. There are no homonyms of "yoga" in Sanskrit. There >> is >>>> just that single word. Singleton obviously has no idea what he is >>> talking >>>> about here when it comes to the notion of homony,m. That's bad enough. >>> But >>>> he is young, and maybe he can be excused for this slight error. But in >>> her >>>> review of his otherwise good book Doniger repeats the same linguistic >>> error: >>>> the Sanskit terrn "yoga" consists, in her view, of several so-called >>>> homonyms. >>>> >>>> This of course is very bad linguistics. >>>> >>>> I don't know what to think. Should we just be silent about such small >>>> errors? Or should we call them out? >>>> >>>> George Thompson >>> >> From shyamr at YORKU.CA Wed Mar 9 15:15:44 2011 From: shyamr at YORKU.CA (Shyam Ranganathan) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 10:15:44 -0500 Subject: Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton---Add "dharma" In-Reply-To: <1777680638.17355.1299665704055.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail08.arcor-online.net> Message-ID: <161227091769.23782.2788161566165751721.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5315 Lines: 98 Dear all, Philipp Maas wrote: " In my view, a good example to support the view that there is such a radical break between the meaning of "yoga" in Indian philosophies and religions and its use in connection with postural modern yoga as to speak of two different words is a statement ascribed to the actress Julia Roberts (http://ezinearticles.com/?Yoga-Down----Twist-This-Mess-Around&id=203078) who allegedly said that she don't want yoga to change her life. Just her butt." In contrast to a purely linguistic or social scientific approach to the issue, I would like to raise a philosophical concern about defining yoga. Namely that The meaning of a word is also a philosophical question on two fronts. First there is the general philosophical question of what accounts for the meaning of a word. Much work in the philosophy of language and semantics is on this. Secondly, we ought to recognize, I think, that some words are used to articulate controversial theses in a debate. Words of a philosophical importance are of this sort, I have argued in my day job as an analytic philosopher (for instance in my in press 2011 "An Archimedean Point for Philosophy," Metaphilosophy 42(4)). For instance, "good," "right," "real," etc., are all of them words employed by thinkers with differing theoretical and philosophical perspectives. It would be a mistake to say that the word "good" in the history of Western philosophy means different things when employed by Utilitarians and Kantians, for instance, for one would foreclose on the possibility of understanding that "good" operates as a token to articulate a philosophical disagreement between moral philosophers. It is true that Utilitarians take external states of affairs to be the referent of "good" while Kantians hold that only the praiseworthy will can be called "good." But it would be a mistake to believe that "good" means something different for Utilitarians and Kantians for if it did there would be no disagreement between them on goodness. In Ethics and the History of Indian Philosophy (Motilal Banarsidass 2007), I argue that contrary to the orthodox approach in Indology, the latter is the appropriate stand that we should take towards "dharma" if we want to understand the history of Indian moral philosophy. This of course runs counter to the tradition of treating "dharma" as a homonym whose semantics is catalogued by the speaker-identified-referent. Why ought we to take this stand with respect to "dharma"? We could, if we wanted to, adopt the more traditional approach in Indology by taking the position of a social scientist who has no interest in treading on historical debates in India: we simply want to describe and explain what *they* where talking about. Hence, deciding that Buddhists *mean* something different by "dharma" (many different things) from, say, the Smartha, is a fine way of not getting involved. And it seems perfectly objective for it allows the scholar to retain a type of philosophical agnosticism about what "Really Is Dharma" for methodologically she has decided that she is doing social science, not philosophy. But this approach to defining "dharma" with respect to its designata fails to preserve an important type of practical agnosticism, namely the practical agnosticism that characterized the shared discourse of Indian philosophy, where people disagree with each other. It seems to me that a better way of simply not getting involved in philosophy is to attempt to understand a term such as "dharma" as articulating theoretical disagreements about what is in fact Dharma. But to do so is to treat it as having a single meaning, like "good", across different philosophical systems and paradigms. I think something of the sort is appropriate for "yoga" as well. If we do not adopt such an approach to "yoga" we seem to be allowing Julia Roberts to decide what is Yoga, by definition. But what counts as yoga it seems to me is not something that anyone of us gets to decide, by definition, if it is a philosophical issue. I'd rather us take this approach to understanding the meaning of "yoga" for that allows the question to remain alive: what is it that truly counts as yoga? In taking this approach I am not denying that we cannot fruitfully define a word like "yoga" in terms of what particular theorists or commentators believe counts as yoga. Neither am I committed to denying that Julia Roberts is talking about something different from Patanjali: Patanjlai's conception of yoga (Yoga Sutra Book I.2, II.1) is a lot wider than mere tapas. But what I am suggesting we do is resist the notion that simply talking about different things amounts to employing a device with a different meaning. If we allow that "yoga" is a philosophically important word, we allow the philosophical question to remain open to discussion: whether Patanjali or Julia Roberts is right about what is yoga. Likewise, historically, while some theorists might draw distinctions between different types of yoga, it is probably more useful in understanding the history of Indian philosophy to regard "yoga" as having a common philosophical meaning that allowed theorists to participate in a wider debate on yoga. Best wishes, Shyam S. Ranganathan, MA, MA, PHD Department of Philosophy, York University, Toronto From phmaas at ARCOR.DE Wed Mar 9 10:15:04 2011 From: phmaas at ARCOR.DE (Philipp Maas) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 11:15:04 +0100 Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton Message-ID: <161227091755.23782.17406970612620577910.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1337 Lines: 15 Dear Critstoph, the question, as I understand our discussion, is not whether there are two or more words ?yoga? in classical Sanskrit, but whether the word ?yoga? in modern western languages is the same word as in classical Sanskrit. The common derivation of both words from the (one or other) Sanskrit root ?yuj? is no sufficient criterion to settle this question. In my view, a good example to support the view that there is such a radical break between the meaning of ?yoga? in Indian philosopies and religions and its use in connection with postural modern yoga as to speak of two different words is a statement ascribed to the actress Julia Roberts (http://ezinearticles.com/?Yoga-Down----Twist-This-Mess-Around&id=203078) who allegedly said that she don't want yoga to change her life. Just her butt. This statement makes perfect sense if ?yoga? means a form of gymnastics and it is absurd when ?yoga? is semantically related to soteriology. As Bu?man explains, semantic differences are an important but not a sufficiently exact criterion to establish homonymy. Therefore Singleton?s use of the word ?homonym? is maybe more open to a scholarly discussion than the question of whether an intellectual continuum leads from the Paata?jala Yoga"saastra to some mainstream forms of postural modern yoga. All the best, Philipp From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Wed Mar 9 11:32:55 2011 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 12:32:55 +0100 Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton In-Reply-To: <1777680638.17355.1299665704055.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail08.arcor-online.ne t> Message-ID: <161227091759.23782.7677221419263042543.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2539 Lines: 74 (Dear Pihlpip) The lexical quotation by Dominic (with a c) was raising the interesting question of the possibility to linguistically see at least two different words 'yoga' in Sanskrit, therefore homonymous. The passage of Singleton's book provided by Dominik (with a k) is indeed to be understood as 'yoga' in Sanskrit as having not the same meaning(s) than 'yoga' as used in western languages for denoting popular practices. But since the latter (in English as in French, etc.) is a borrowing from the Sanskrit word, the use of the term 'homonymy' appears to me in this case simply meaningless, as it would be the case for 'ayurveda', 'tantra', 'vastushastra', etc. when the words are used in western languages for denoting practices/discourses which are really far from the extensive/comprehensive meanings of the original Sanskrit words. With best wishes, C. >Dear Critstoph, >the question, as I understand our discussion, is >not whether there are two or more words ?yoga? >in classical Sanskrit, but whether the word >?yoga? in modern western languages is the same >word as in classical Sanskrit. The common >derivation of both words from the (one or other) >Sanskrit root ?yuj? is no sufficient criterion >to settle this question. > >In my view, a good example to support the view >that there is such a radical break between the >meaning of ?yoga? in Indian philosopies and >religions and its use in connection with >postural modern yoga as to speak of two >different words is a statement ascribed to the >actress Julia Roberts >(http://ezinearticles.com/?Yoga-Down----Twist-This-Mess-Around&id=203078) >who allegedly said that she don't want yoga to >change her life. Just her butt. > >This statement makes perfect sense if ?yoga? >means a form of gymnastics and it is absurd when >?yoga? is semantically related to soteriology. > >As Bu?man explains, semantic differences are an >important but not a sufficiently exact criterion >to establish homonymy. Therefore Singleton?s use >of the word ?homonym? is maybe more open to a >scholarly discussion than the question of >whether an intellectual continuum leads from the >Paata?jala Yoga"saastra to some mainstream forms >of postural modern yoga. > >All the best, > >Philipp -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ http://www.uclouvain.be/356389.html -- Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of storage free. http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ From lubint at WLU.EDU Wed Mar 9 17:47:49 2011 From: lubint at WLU.EDU (Lubin, Tim) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 12:47:49 -0500 Subject: Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like In-Reply-To: <494744.48007.qm@web94815.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227091771.23782.13761567493241566150.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2761 Lines: 40 Thank you Dipak. Although I do not think there is any connection between the Kasyapottarasa?hita in hand and the medical text called Kasyapasa?hita (if that?s what you refer to), I have checked the latter, and found nothing. Elsewhere in the Kasyapottara itself, so far as I have read, no similar list appear, and a word search of the corpus of Unicode Skt texts on my computer shows no occurrences of, e.g., of strings beginning saivantar, vai??avantar, sudrantar, and the like. So it remains rather anomalous. As I said, I can simply guess that Vai??avantarasudra would mean something like Vai??avasudra manqu?, with -antara = ?other? in the sense of ?lesser?, but I still wonder if there is any precedent or parallels for such an expression. Tim From: Dipak Bhattacharya [mailto:dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 5:24 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk; Lubin, Tim Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like The word -antara meaning 'others' in a compound usually refers to variants, extras etc. One has to check if a supplementary list is concerned where it will be appropriate to term the new entries as such. Will you check if any list of ;Suudras of the Vai.s.nava-, ;Saiva- etc. varieties has already been mentioned? I shall check the Kaa;syapa-Sa.mhitaa itself. Perhaps, you too can yourself do that. But i will. Best DB --- On Mon, 7/3/11, Lubin, Tim wrote: From: Lubin, Tim Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 7 March, 2011, 3:21 PM Dear all, Reading the (unpublished) Kaa"syapottarasa.mhitaa (adhyaaya 18), I have been puzzling over the precise implications of some categories of "Suudra described therein, categories including the suffix -antara, as follows (in descending rank order): Vai.s.nava vs. Vai.s.navaantara, "Saiva vs. "Saivaantara, Saamaanya vs. Saamaanyaantara, Sa.mkara vs. Sa.mkaraantara. An initial round of searches has not yielded any parallels that would suggest what distinguishes, e.g.., a 'Vai.s.navaantara"suudra' from a 'Vai.s.nava"suudra'. The text itself is not really explicit, except to suggest that the Vai.s.navaantara is a lower status. In this case, the lower status may be implicitly attributable to association with "Saivas (despite having received the sa.mskaaras taught in the Puraa.nas and Paa~ncaraatra "saastras, noted in the preceding stanza): "saivaagamoktasa.mskaarisambandha.m samavaapya ca | svaya.m ced vai.s.navas ti.s.thed vai.s.navaantara iirita.h || Have others encountered similar status-titles in other works? Does 'X-antara' simply imply 'a lesser' or 'not quite an' X? Tim Lubin !SIG:4d77555d218712870694385! From mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM Wed Mar 9 18:56:04 2011 From: mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 13:56:04 -0500 Subject: NEW RELEASE : "The philosophical traditions of India: An appraisal" [by Raffaele Torella] Message-ID: <161227091778.23782.3053175885947660634.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1333 Lines: 21 Posted by Mrinal Kaul on behalf of Prof Raffaele Torella INDICA BOOKS, Varanasi recently published the THE PHILOSOPHICAL TRADITIONS OF INDIA An Appraisal by Raffaele Torella Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Rome "La Sapienza" About the Book: India's progressive emergence on the world stage, in terms unimaginable just a few decades ago, obliges us to reconsider its image as nurtured by the West for over two thousand years: a prestigious image maybe, but also greatly reductive, as the privileged home of occult knowledge, ecstasy and asceticism, or - quite the opposite - of fabulous riches and voluptuous pleasures. Rather than getting to know India, the West has preferred to dream of it: one result has been that Indian thought, albeit unanimously celebrated as the seat of the highest wisdom, has not been granted even the smallest place on the great stage of the history of philosophy. This book presents the thought of pre-modern India first and foremost by outlining the cultural parameters within which it arose and developed, and should be read; often associated with religious experience, but also essentially independent of it; sometimes differing in form and outcome, but more often very close to Western thought, and certainly never 'alien'. ORDER FROM: http://www.indicabooks.com/Contactus.asp From lubint at WLU.EDU Wed Mar 9 19:41:31 2011 From: lubint at WLU.EDU (Lubin, Tim) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 14:41:31 -0500 Subject: Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like In-Reply-To: <623EA9C3-BC56-4613-8F15-0EA8F711908E@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227091783.23782.17389592425107812804.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 514 Lines: 17 Oh, yes, that is in my searchable corpus. -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Slouber Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 2:31 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like There is also a P??car?tra sa?hit? called K??yapasa?hit?, but I didn't see any parallel in it with your -antara phrase. It is available as an etext here: . Michael From kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Wed Mar 9 13:42:26 2011 From: kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Birgit Kellner) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 14:42:26 +0100 Subject: Pers=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E9e?= In-Reply-To: <7B4A1351-0B4E-4876-9B22-19C7FF5920F3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227091764.23782.14912418306112140485.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1271 Lines: 47 On 09.03.2011 12:45, Dominic Goodall wrote: > Dear List, > > Here's some rather depressing information about the site Pers?e (which I use rather frequently for downloading articles of the BEFEO, for instance): > > http://www.fabula.org/actualites/le-programme-persee-menace_43415.php > > Dominic Goodall > ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient, > 19, rue Dumas, > Pondicherry 605001 This is really bad news - Pers?e is a truly invaluable resource; I've downloaded many articles from there (just search for Bareau, Filliozat, Lamotte, Levi, and the riches are just pouring in, particularly interesting because they also include publications in journals that are harder to find in libraries outside of France). The link that Dominic sent out also includes a link to an online petition to keep Pers?e alive, which I would encourage everyone to sign. Best regards, Birgit Kellner -- ------------- Prof. Dr. Birgit Kellner Chair in Buddhist Studies Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context - Shifting Asymmetries in Cultural Flows" University of Heidelberg Karl Jaspers Centre Vossstra?e 2, Building 4400 D-69115 Heidelberg Phone: +49(0)6221 - 54 4301 Fax: +49(0)6221 - 54 4012 http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/en/home.html From j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM Wed Mar 9 23:01:32 2011 From: j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 15:01:32 -0800 Subject: forwarded request: Indogaku Bukkyogaku Kenkyu, 1 4, 1965, p.26-37 ??? Message-ID: <161227091792.23782.1801013616484023504.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 974 Lines: 9 forwarded message From: Viktoria Lyssenko To: indology at liverpool.ac.ukDate: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 17:08:16 +0300Subject: a paper from Indogaku Bukkyogaku Kenkyu, 1 4.Dear all!Does anyone have access to an electronic copy of ?Kajiyama Yuichi's paper "Controversy between the sakara- and nirakara-vadins of the Yogacara school - Some materials", published in ?Indogaku Bukkyogaku Kenkyu, 1 4, 1965, p.26-37. I have looked through the on line-archive of this journal but this paper was not there.Any other enlightening materials on this difficult subject are also welcome! I am trying to write an entry about this subject for the Encyclopedia of Buddhist Philosophy which is under preparation in my Institute, but the more I read the less I understand: those whom I believed to be nirakaravadins seem to be sakaravadins, and vice versa.Best regards,Victoria LysenkoResearch Professor,Institute of PhilosophyRussian Academy of SciencesMoscow From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Mar 9 14:53:18 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 15:53:18 +0100 Subject: Pers=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=A9e?= In-Reply-To: <4D7783C2.3070707@asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de> Message-ID: <161227091766.23782.13128768572813922207.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1739 Lines: 62 This is grim news. Pers?e is a magnificent resource, and like Birgit, I've used it often. If the forces of darkness prevail, I hope they will at least transfer the existing digitized materials to a public repository such as the Hathi Trust. I've signed the petition. Thank you for alerting me, Dominic. Best, DW On 9 March 2011 14:42, Birgit Kellner wrote: > On 09.03.2011 12:45, Dominic Goodall wrote: > > Dear List, > > > > Here's some rather depressing information about the site Pers?e (which I > use rather frequently for downloading articles of the BEFEO, for instance): > > > > http://www.fabula.org/actualites/le-programme-persee-menace_43415.php > > > > Dominic Goodall > > ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient, > > 19, rue Dumas, > > Pondicherry 605001 > > This is really bad news - Pers?e is a truly invaluable resource; I've > downloaded many articles from there (just search for Bareau, Filliozat, > Lamotte, Levi, and the riches are just pouring in, particularly interesting > because they also include publications in journals that are harder to find > in libraries outside of France). > > The link that Dominic sent out also includes a link to an online petition > to keep Pers?e alive, which I would encourage everyone to sign. > > Best regards, > > Birgit Kellner > > > > > -- > ------------- > > Prof. Dr. Birgit Kellner > Chair in Buddhist Studies > Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context - Shifting > Asymmetries in Cultural Flows" > University of Heidelberg > Karl Jaspers Centre > Vossstra?e 2, Building 4400 > D-69115 Heidelberg > Phone: +49(0)6221 - 54 4301 > Fax: +49(0)6221 - 54 4012 > http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/en/home.html > From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Wed Mar 9 10:24:17 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 15:54:17 +0530 Subject: Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091757.23782.9668136737015047532.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1765 Lines: 33 The word -antara meaning 'others' in a compound usually refers to variants, extras etc. One has to check if a supplementary list is concerned where it will be appropriate to term the new entries as such. Will you check if any list of ;Suudras of the Vai.s.nava-, ;Saiva- etc. varieties has already been mentioned? I shall check the Kaa;syapa-Sa.mhitaa itself.? Perhaps, you too can yourself do that. But i will. Best DB --- On Mon, 7/3/11, Lubin, Tim wrote: From: Lubin, Tim Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 7 March, 2011, 3:21 PM Dear all, Reading the (unpublished) Kaa"syapottarasa.mhitaa (adhyaaya 18), I have been puzzling over the precise implications of some categories of "Suudra described therein, categories including the suffix -antara, as follows (in descending rank order): Vai.s.nava vs. Vai.s.navaantara, "Saiva vs. "Saivaantara, Saamaanya vs. Saamaanyaantara, Sa.mkara vs. Sa.mkaraantara. An initial round of searches has not yielded any parallels that would suggest what distinguishes, e.g., a 'Vai.s.navaantara"suudra' from a 'Vai.s.nava"suudra'.? The text itself is not really explicit, except to suggest that the Vai.s.navaantara is a lower status.? In this case, the lower status may be implicitly attributable to association with "Saivas (despite having received the sa.mskaaras taught in the Puraa.nas and Paa~ncaraatra "saastras, noted in the preceding stanza): "saivaagamoktasa.mskaarisambandha.m samavaapya ca | svaya.m ced vai.s.navas ti.s.thed vai.s.navaantara iirita.h || Have others encountered similar status-titles in other works?? Does 'X-antara' simply imply 'a lesser' or 'not quite an' X? Tim Lubin From lubint at WLU.EDU Wed Mar 9 20:55:55 2011 From: lubint at WLU.EDU (Lubin, Tim) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 15:55:55 -0500 Subject: Tartars in Sanskrit? In-Reply-To: <4D77DB46.5060505@pbhome.se> Message-ID: <161227091788.23782.9648217081281473682.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 998 Lines: 24 I have always been led to believe that 'Tartar' was a European corruption of 'T?t?r' (as in Persian), perhaps by association with Latin Tartarus. In that case, I would have expected a Sanskrit rendering to be begin taataar- or taatar-, no? Or are matters less clearcut than that? Perhaps you can give us the relevant snippet. -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Martin Gansten Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 2:56 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tartars in Sanskrit? I should be very interested to know of any instances of terms like t?rt?ya or t?rt?yaka, with the meaning 'Tartar', in (late) Sanskrit literature. I have come across a single occurrence, in the T?jikabh??a?a (16th-17th cent.), where this seems to be the only reasonable meaning of the word (it is definitely not related to t?t?ya); but I haven't found it in any dictionary. Martin Gansten Lund University !SIG:4d77db53218712961528679! From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Wed Mar 9 11:45:44 2011 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 17:15:44 +0530 Subject: Pers=?iso-8859-15?Q?=E9e?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091761.23782.14566357697673293519.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 320 Lines: 13 Dear List, Here's some rather depressing information about the site Pers?e (which I use rather frequently for downloading articles of the BEFEO, for instance): http://www.fabula.org/actualites/le-programme-persee-menace_43415.php Dominic Goodall ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient, 19, rue Dumas, Pondicherry 605001 From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 10 01:23:38 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 20:23:38 -0500 Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091797.23782.726856876994823291.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2226 Lines: 55 On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 8:20 PM, George Thompson wrote: > Dear Philipp, > > I apologize for not replying sooner, but I have other duties to attend to. > > The word 'yoga' in all western languages is a LOANWORD from Sanskrit, > regardless of etymology. This is not a matter of two words. It is a matter > of a borrowed word going in strange new directions. Julia Roberts is > entitled to her own sense of what "yoga" means to her. But let us be > clear. The word that she is using is the same one that Patanjali used and > the Gita used the authors of the Upanisads used. > > It is this very confusion that Singleton has created, whether > accidentally or intentionally. > > Best Wishes, > > George > > On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 5:15 AM, Philipp Maas wrote: > >> Dear Critstoph, >> the question, as I understand our discussion, is not whether there are two >> or more words ?yoga? in classical Sanskrit, but whether the word ?yoga? in >> modern western languages is the same word as in classical Sanskrit. The >> common derivation of both words from the (one or other) Sanskrit root ?yuj? >> is no sufficient criterion to settle this question. >> >> In my view, a good example to support the view that there is such a >> radical break between the meaning of ?yoga? in Indian philosopies and >> religions and its use in connection with postural modern yoga as to speak of >> two different words is a statement ascribed to the actress Julia Roberts ( >> http://ezinearticles.com/?Yoga-Down----Twist-This-Mess-Around&id=203078) >> who allegedly said that she don't want yoga to change her life. Just her >> butt. >> >> This statement makes perfect sense if ?yoga? means a form of gymnastics >> and it is absurd when ?yoga? is semantically related to soteriology. >> >> As Bu?man explains, semantic differences are an important but not a >> sufficiently exact criterion to establish homonymy. Therefore Singleton?s >> use of the word ?homonym? is maybe more open to a scholarly discussion than >> the question of whether an intellectual continuum leads from the Paata?jala >> Yoga"saastra to some mainstream forms of postural modern yoga. >> >> All the best, >> >> Philipp >> > > From mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU Wed Mar 9 19:30:49 2011 From: mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU (Michael Slouber) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 20:30:49 +0100 Subject: Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091781.23782.6631028215171289731.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3104 Lines: 47 There is also a P??car?tra sa?hit? called K??yapasa?hit?, but I didn't see any parallel in it with your -antara phrase. It is available as an etext here: . Michael On Mar 9, 2011, at 6:47 PM, Lubin, Tim wrote: > Thank you Dipak. Although I do not think there is any connection between the Kasyapottarasa?hita in hand and the medical text called Kasyapasa?hita (if that?s what you refer to), I have checked the latter, and found nothing. Elsewhere in the Kasyapottara itself, so far as I have read, no similar list appear, and a word search of the corpus of Unicode Skt texts on my computer shows no occurrences of, e.g., of strings beginning saivantar, vai??avantar, sudrantar, and the like. So it remains rather anomalous. > > As I said, I can simply guess that Vai??avantarasudra would mean something like Vai??avasudra manqu?, with -antara = ?other? in the sense of ?lesser?, but I still wonder if there is any precedent or parallels for such an expression. > > Tim > > From: Dipak Bhattacharya [mailto:dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 5:24 AM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk; Lubin, Tim > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like > > The word -antara meaning 'others' in a compound usually refers to variants, extras etc. One has to check if a supplementary list is concerned where it will be appropriate to term the new entries as such. Will you check if any list of ;Suudras of the Vai.s.nava-, ;Saiva- etc. varieties has already been mentioned? I shall check the Kaa;syapa-Sa.mhitaa itself. Perhaps, you too can yourself do that. But i will. > Best > DB > > --- On Mon, 7/3/11, Lubin, Tim wrote: > > From: Lubin, Tim > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Monday, 7 March, 2011, 3:21 PM > Dear all, > > Reading the (unpublished) Kaa"syapottarasa.mhitaa (adhyaaya 18), I have been puzzling over the precise implications of some categories of "Suudra described therein, categories including the suffix -antara, as follows (in descending rank order): > Vai.s.nava vs. Vai.s.navaantara, > "Saiva vs. "Saivaantara, > Saamaanya vs. Saamaanyaantara, > Sa.mkara vs. Sa.mkaraantara. > > An initial round of searches has not yielded any parallels that would suggest what distinguishes, e.g.., a 'Vai.s.navaantara"suudra' from a 'Vai.s.nava"suudra'. The text itself is not really explicit, except to suggest that the Vai.s.navaantara is a lower status. In this case, the lower status may be implicitly attributable to association with "Saivas (despite having received the sa.mskaaras taught in the Puraa.nas and Paa~ncaraatra "saastras, noted in the preceding stanza): "saivaagamoktasa.mskaarisambandha.m samavaapya ca | svaya.m ced vai.s.navas ti.s.thed vai.s.navaantara iirita.h || > > Have others encountered similar status-titles in other works? Does 'X-antara' simply imply 'a lesser' or 'not quite an' X? > > Tim Lubin > > > !SIG:4d77555d218712870694385! From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 10 01:38:34 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 20:38:34 -0500 Subject: Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton---Add "dharma" In-Reply-To: <004001cbde6c$ddab81f0$990285d0$@ca> Message-ID: <161227091800.23782.1978933754524594857.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5721 Lines: 118 Dear Shyam Ranganathan, Thank you for attempting to rescue us from this Humpty Dumpty conundrum that Singleton has created! George On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Shyam Ranganathan wrote: > Dear all, > > Philipp Maas wrote: > > " In my view, a good example to support the view that there is such a > radical break between the meaning of "yoga" in Indian philosophies and > religions and its use in connection with postural modern yoga as to speak > of > two different words is a statement ascribed to the actress Julia Roberts > (http://ezinearticles.com/?Yoga-Down----Twist-This-Mess-Around&id=203078) > who allegedly said that she don't want yoga to change her life. Just her > butt." > > In contrast to a purely linguistic or social scientific approach to the > issue, I would like to raise a philosophical concern about defining yoga. > Namely that The meaning of a word is also a philosophical question on two > fronts. First there is the general philosophical question of what accounts > for the meaning of a word. Much work in the philosophy of language and > semantics is on this. > > Secondly, we ought to recognize, I think, that some words are used to > articulate controversial theses in a debate. Words of a philosophical > importance are of this sort, I have argued in my day job as an analytic > philosopher (for instance in my in press 2011 "An Archimedean Point for > Philosophy," Metaphilosophy 42(4)). For instance, "good," "right," "real," > etc., are all of them words employed by thinkers with differing theoretical > and philosophical perspectives. It would be a mistake to say that the word > "good" in the history of Western philosophy means different things when > employed by Utilitarians and Kantians, for instance, for one would > foreclose > on the possibility of understanding that "good" operates as a token to > articulate a philosophical disagreement between moral philosophers. It is > true that Utilitarians take external states of affairs to be the referent > of > "good" while Kantians hold that only the praiseworthy will can be called > "good." But it would be a mistake to believe that "good" means something > different for Utilitarians and Kantians for if it did there would be no > disagreement between them on goodness. > > In Ethics and the History of Indian Philosophy (Motilal Banarsidass 2007), > I > argue that contrary to the orthodox approach in Indology, the latter is the > appropriate stand that we should take towards "dharma" if we want to > understand the history of Indian moral philosophy. This of course runs > counter to the tradition of treating "dharma" as a homonym whose semantics > is catalogued by the speaker-identified-referent. Why ought we to take this > stand with respect to "dharma"? > > We could, if we wanted to, adopt the more traditional approach in Indology > by taking the position of a social scientist who has no interest in > treading > on historical debates in India: we simply want to describe and explain what > *they* where talking about. Hence, deciding that Buddhists *mean* something > different by "dharma" (many different things) from, say, the Smartha, is a > fine way of not getting involved. And it seems perfectly objective for it > allows the scholar to retain a type of philosophical agnosticism about what > "Really Is Dharma" for methodologically she has decided that she is doing > social science, not philosophy. But this approach to defining "dharma" with > respect to its designata fails to preserve an important type of practical > agnosticism, namely the practical agnosticism that characterized the shared > discourse of Indian philosophy, where people disagree with each other. It > seems to me that a better way of simply not getting involved in philosophy > is to attempt to understand a term such as "dharma" as articulating > theoretical disagreements about what is in fact Dharma. But to do so is to > treat it as having a single meaning, like "good", across different > philosophical systems and paradigms. > > I think something of the sort is appropriate for "yoga" as well. If we do > not adopt such an approach to "yoga" we seem to be allowing Julia Roberts > to > decide what is Yoga, by definition. But what counts as yoga it seems to me > is not something that anyone of us gets to decide, by definition, if it is > a > philosophical issue. I'd rather us take this approach to understanding the > meaning of "yoga" for that allows the question to remain alive: what is it > that truly counts as yoga? > > In taking this approach I am not denying that we cannot fruitfully define a > word like "yoga" in terms of what particular theorists or commentators > believe counts as yoga. Neither am I committed to denying that Julia > Roberts > is talking about something different from Patanjali: Patanjlai's conception > of yoga (Yoga Sutra Book I.2, II.1) is a lot wider than mere tapas. But > what > I am suggesting we do is resist the notion that simply talking about > different things amounts to employing a device with a different meaning. If > we allow that "yoga" is a philosophically important word, we allow the > philosophical question to remain open to discussion: whether Patanjali or > Julia Roberts is right about what is yoga. > > Likewise, historically, while some theorists might draw distinctions > between > different types of yoga, it is probably more useful in understanding the > history of Indian philosophy to regard "yoga" as having a common > philosophical meaning that allowed theorists to participate in a wider > debate on yoga. > > > Best wishes, > Shyam > > > S. Ranganathan, MA, MA, PHD > Department of Philosophy, > York University, Toronto > From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 10 01:48:10 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 20:48:10 -0500 Subject: Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton---Add "dharma" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091802.23782.9801291916102217874.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 423 Lines: 14 By the way, I ran the term "homonym" past my students today. Most of them, of course, didn't have a clue about what it meant. But a few of them did know that a homonym was a set of words that sounded alike but that meant different things. Are these students, art school students with no pretensions to being linguists, actually better linguists than Singleton of Doniger? Well, I wouldn't know.... George Thompson From martin.gansten at PBHOME.SE Wed Mar 9 19:55:50 2011 From: martin.gansten at PBHOME.SE (Martin Gansten) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 20:55:50 +0100 Subject: Tartars in Sanskrit? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091785.23782.17303622588523945556.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 414 Lines: 12 I should be very interested to know of any instances of terms like t?rt?ya or t?rt?yaka, with the meaning 'Tartar', in (late) Sanskrit literature. I have come across a single occurrence, in the T?jikabh??a?a (16th-17th cent.), where this seems to be the only reasonable meaning of the word (it is definitely not related to t?t?ya); but I haven't found it in any dictionary. Martin Gansten Lund University From saf at SAFARMER.COM Thu Mar 10 05:15:54 2011 From: saf at SAFARMER.COM (Steve Farmer) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 21:15:54 -0800 Subject: Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton---Add "dharma" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091810.23782.16892973190906528453.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1792 Lines: 48 George Thompson writes: > By the way, I ran the term "homonym" past my students today. Most > of them, > of course, didn't have a clue about what it meant. But a few of > them did > know that a homonym was a set of words that sounded alike but that > meant > different things. > > Are these students, art school students with no pretensions to being > linguists, actually better linguists than Singleton of Doniger? Maybe the Oxford English Dictionary rather than the students in your women's art school -- at least as you report their views -- might be viewed as a better authority? As already noted, the primary definition of the word 'homonym' given in the OED is "The same word or name used to signify different things." That is of course correct etymologically as well, as further reflected in the primary OED definition of 'homonymy', which the OED tells us refers to "the use of the same name for different things." Only secondarily, and only in specialized use in linguistics, is a 'homonym' equivalent to a 'homophone'. The OED defines (again etymologically correct) as "Applied to words having the same sound, but differing in meaning or derivation." The terrible linguistic blunder you attribute to Singleton and Doniger here isn't a blunder. One of the earliest English uses of the word 'homonym' mentioned in the OED is also correct both in usage and etymologically: "An equivocation, or word of diverse significations." But deep down none of this has anything whatsoever with Mark Singleton's book or Wendy Doniger's review of it, which this totally pointless discussion has diverted attention from. A terrible waste of time, and time to end it, unless you can actually come up with meaningful criticism of the book. S. Farmer From saf at SAFARMER.COM Thu Mar 10 05:21:39 2011 From: saf at SAFARMER.COM (Steve Farmer) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 21:21:39 -0800 Subject: Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton---Add "dharma" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091812.23782.15772490904896744477.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6455 Lines: 129 George Thompson writes: > Dear Shyam Ranganathan, > > Thank you for attempting to rescue us from this Humpty Dumpty > conundrum that > Singleton has created! This is supposed to be a research list, which I take it means that strings of polemical statements of this sort, if permitted at all on the list, are at a minimum supposed to be backed by evidence. Mr. Thompson has shown by many odd comments over the last few days -- starting with his (I should think quite embarrassing to a linguist) objection to the correct use by Mark Singleton and Wendy Doniger of the word 'homonym' -- that he has neither read nor understood Singleton's newest book, outside perhaps of a few isolated snippets in its opening sections, Singleton's study is not a general history of yoga (no matter how construed, premodern or modern), as Thompson apparently assumes, but is rather the most detailed study ever undertaken of the development of modern (meaning late 19th to 20th century) asana practice. Singleton presents hundreds of pages of evidence, including data drawn from exclusive interviews with dozens of Indian principals critical to that development (including K. Pattabhi Jois and many others in the close-knit circles of Jois and Iyengar and Krishnamacharya before them) that confirm a thesis that evolved out of a long series of studies stretching from the mid 1990s to the present -- that the relationship between modern asanas, as practiced today in India no less than in the West, is tenuous at best. What Krishnamacharya and Jois and Iyengar and their students represented to themselves and their followers -- both Indian and Western -- as "traditional" asana practice can be shown from evidence coming from many directions to have been a syncretic fusion of a wide assortment of diverse Indian and Western cultural elements that only emerged during the late colonial era. Part of the roots of that thesis lay in the publication of Norman Sjoman's studies of key Sanskrit texts that emerged from his two decades of research in Mysore, summarized in his now classic _The Yoga Traditions of Mysore Palace_, which appeared in 1996. Other studies generalizing on and expanding that thesis soon followed, undertaken by a long list of researchers including Joseph Alter (University of Pittsburgh), Elizabeth De Michelis (Cambridge University), David Gordon White (University of California at Santa Barbara), Gudrun B?hnemann (University of Wisconsin), and -- more recently -- many of their students. That thesis today can hardly be viewed as controversial -- unless it offends one's indigenous or political-religious sensibilities (as is true in respect to Hindu nationalists, who are violently attacking the thesis all over the Web) -- or undercuts spurious claims of antiquity made for legitimizing purposes by specific yoga lineages, *including* those identified with Krishnamacharya (who wasn't above manufacturing pseudo-ancient Sanskrit texts to legitimize his yoga innovations) or Jois or iyengar. But these exceptions aside, the thesis is hardly a contentious one among academic yoga historians, who for that reason have quite uniformly praised Singleton's work. Even the _Yoga Journal_ types have now begun to accept the thesis -- ironically the same people who so violently attacked Norman Sjoman's work when it first came out -- as well as mainstream figures in the yoga world, who to their credit have been forced by Mark's work to begin to reevaluate the roots of their own traditions. Nor will the thesis remain contentious for long for anyone else who takes the time to read Singleton's book and compare what he or she finds there with the decidedly *un-modern* types of asana practice discussed in the increasingly abundant medieval tantric and hatha texts now being made available in high-quality modern editions and translations by other yoga specialists (including some of whom quietly subscribe to this List). Singleton's new book is already becoming a classic, and rightly, since (building on the early works previously cited) it has already triggered a revolution in yoga studies scarcely a year following its publication. One of the ironies in the violent discussions about the book now all over the Web -- Thompson's polemics, which seem oddly personal in nature (although he doesn't know Mark) -- are quite similar to those of Hindutva writers now being aimed at summaries of the ongoing revolution in yoga written by Meera Nanda and Wendy Doniger -- is that Singleton himself has done everything in his power to show that his writings have absolutely no polemical intent. Half the introductory materials in his book in fact is aimed at trying to make that clear. Part of the reason for this is because Mark himself is deeply connected to the yoga world -- he is both a world-class yoga practitioner and teacher himself, who was doing yoga long before he got his doctorate at Cambridge -- and part is that his only motivation in doing historical research, as is true of many on this list, revolves around his love of research. I don't know of a less polemical person. But as many on this List recognize from experience, questioning even the most obvious of historical fantasies in Indian history can get you in hot water whether you like it or not, simply because so much of contemporary Indian ideologies depend on fantastic views of the past. "Mit der Dummheit k?mpfen G?tter selbst vergebens." I have no idea what it means to claim that we need "rescue" from "this Humpty Dumpty condundrum that Singleton has created!" Could I politely ask Mr. Thompson, since seriousissues are involved here, as witnessed by the now global discussion (most recently witnessed by Doniger's review) of _Yoga Body: The Origins of Modern Posture Practice_, to 1. Quote a single passage covering a central topic -- only one is requested -- which Thompson finds factually incorrect in the book or interpretatively misguided; and 2. Add some meaningful criticism to it that demonstrates why we are led into a "Humpty Dumpty conundrum" by the work? These one-liners attacking major scholars while citing spurious evidence (or in this case no evidence at all) are daily fare on Hindu nationalist Lists. They don't belong in serious research forums. Regards, Steve Farmer From saf at SAFARMER.COM Thu Mar 10 06:06:03 2011 From: saf at SAFARMER.COM (Steve Farmer) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 22:06:03 -0800 Subject: Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton---Add "dharma" In-Reply-To: <117A5051-EE39-4083-A61D-9D7AF05F0365@safarmer.com> Message-ID: <161227091815.23782.9694036976407748156.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7235 Lines: 148 A quick correction of two critical missing words in a key paragraph in my last post, which I add now in parentheses and all caps. > Singleton presents hundreds of pages of evidence, including data > drawn from exclusive interviews with dozens of Indian principals > critical to that development (including K. Pattabhi Jois and many > others in the close-knit circles of Jois and Iyengar and > Krishnamacharya before them) that confirm a thesis that evolved out > of a long series of studies stretching from the mid 1990s to the > present -- that the relationship between modern [AND PREMODERN] > asanas, as practiced today in India no less than in the West, is > tenuous at best. S. Farmer **** On Mar 9, 2011, at 9:21 PM, Steve Farmer wrote: George Thompson writes: > Dear Shyam Ranganathan, > > Thank you for attempting to rescue us from this Humpty Dumpty > conundrum that > Singleton has created! This is supposed to be a research list, which I take it means that strings of polemical statements of this sort, if permitted at all on the list, are at a minimum supposed to be backed by evidence. Mr. Thompson has shown by many odd comments over the last few days -- starting with his (I should think quite embarrassing to a linguist) objection to the correct use by Mark Singleton and Wendy Doniger of the word 'homonym' -- that he has neither read nor understood Singleton's newest book, outside perhaps of a few isolated snippets in its opening sections, Singleton's study is not a general history of yoga (no matter how construed, premodern or modern), as Thompson apparently assumes, but is rather the most detailed study ever undertaken of the development of modern (meaning late 19th to 20th century) asana practice. Singleton presents hundreds of pages of evidence, including data drawn from exclusive interviews with dozens of Indian principals critical to that development (including K. Pattabhi Jois and many others in the close-knit circles of Jois and Iyengar and Krishnamacharya before them) that confirm a thesis that evolved out of a long series of studies stretching from the mid 1990s to the present -- that the relationship between modern [AND PREMODERN] asanas, as practiced today in India no less than in the West, is tenuous at best. What Krishnamacharya and Jois and Iyengar and their students represented to themselves and their followers -- both Indian and Western -- as "traditional" asana practice can be shown from evidence coming from many directions to have been a syncretic fusion of a wide assortment of diverse Indian and Western cultural elements that only emerged during the late colonial era. Part of the roots of that thesis lay in the publication of Norman Sjoman's studies of key Sanskrit texts that emerged from his two decades of research in Mysore, summarized in his now classic _The Yoga Traditions of Mysore Palace_, which appeared in 1996. Other studies generalizing on and expanding that thesis soon followed, undertaken by a long list of researchers including Joseph Alter (University of Pittsburgh), Elizabeth De Michelis (Cambridge University), David Gordon White (University of California at Santa Barbara), Gudrun B?hnemann (University of Wisconsin), and -- more recently -- many of their students. That thesis today can hardly be viewed as controversial -- unless it offends one's indigenous or political-religious sensibilities (as is true in respect to Hindu nationalists, who are violently attacking the thesis all over the Web) -- or undercuts spurious claims of antiquity made for legitimizing purposes by specific yoga lineages, *including* those identified with Krishnamacharya (who wasn't above manufacturing pseudo-ancient Sanskrit texts to legitimize his yoga innovations) or Jois or iyengar. But these exceptions aside, the thesis is hardly a contentious one among academic yoga historians, who for that reason have quite uniformly praised Singleton's work. Even the _Yoga Journal_ types have now begun to accept the thesis -- ironically the same people who so violently attacked Norman Sjoman's work when it first came out -- as well as mainstream figures in the yoga world, who to their credit have been forced by Mark's work to begin to reevaluate the roots of their own traditions. Nor will the thesis remain contentious for long for anyone else who takes the time to read Singleton's book and compare what he or she finds there with the decidedly *un-modern* types of asana practice discussed in the increasingly abundant medieval tantric and hatha texts now being made available in high-quality modern editions and translations by other yoga specialists (including some of whom quietly subscribe to this List). Singleton's new book is already becoming a classic, and rightly, since (building on the early works previously cited) it has already triggered a revolution in yoga studies scarcely a year following its publication. One of the ironies in the violent discussions about the book now all over the Web -- Thompson's polemics, which seem oddly personal in nature (although he doesn't know Mark) -- are quite similar to those of Hindutva writers now being aimed at summaries of the ongoing revolution in yoga written by Meera Nanda and Wendy Doniger -- is that Singleton himself has done everything in his power to show that his writings have absolutely no polemical intent. Half the introductory materials in his book in fact is aimed at trying to make that clear. Part of the reason for this is because Mark himself is deeply connected to the yoga world -- he is both a world-class yoga practitioner and teacher himself, who was doing yoga long before he got his doctorate at Cambridge -- and part is that his only motivation in doing historical research, as is true of many on this list, revolves around his love of research. I don't know of a less polemical person. But as many on this List recognize from experience, questioning even the most obvious of historical fantasies in Indian history can get you in hot water whether you like it or not, simply because so much of contemporary Indian ideologies depend on fantastic views of the past. "Mit der Dummheit k?mpfen G?tter selbst vergebens." I have no idea what it means to claim that we need "rescue" from "this Humpty Dumpty condundrum that Singleton has created!" Could I politely ask Mr. Thompson, since seriousissues are involved here, as witnessed by the now global discussion (most recently witnessed by Doniger's review) of _Yoga Body: The Origins of Modern Posture Practice_, to 1. Quote a single passage covering a central topic -- only one is requested -- which Thompson finds factually incorrect in the book or interpretatively misguided; and 2. Add some meaningful criticism to it that demonstrates why we are led into a "Humpty Dumpty conundrum" by the work? These one-liners attacking major scholars while citing spurious evidence (or in this case no evidence at all) are daily fare on Hindu nationalist Lists. They don't belong in serious research forums. Regards, Steve Farmer From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 10 03:08:38 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 22:08:38 -0500 Subject: Pers=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E9e?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091805.23782.11493515917014001549.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1983 Lines: 75 I too will sign. George Thompson On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > This is grim news. Pers?e is a magnificent resource, and like Birgit, I've > used it often. > > If the forces of darkness prevail, I hope they will at least transfer the > existing digitized materials to a public repository such as the Hathi > Trust. > > I've signed the petition. Thank you for alerting me, Dominic. > > Best, > DW > > > On 9 March 2011 14:42, Birgit Kellner < > kellner at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de > > wrote: > > > On 09.03.2011 12:45, Dominic Goodall wrote: > > > Dear List, > > > > > > Here's some rather depressing information about the site Pers?e (which > I > > use rather frequently for downloading articles of the BEFEO, for > instance): > > > > > > http://www.fabula.org/actualites/le-programme-persee-menace_43415.php > > > > > > Dominic Goodall > > > ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient, > > > 19, rue Dumas, > > > Pondicherry 605001 > > > > This is really bad news - Pers?e is a truly invaluable resource; I've > > downloaded many articles from there (just search for Bareau, Filliozat, > > Lamotte, Levi, and the riches are just pouring in, particularly > interesting > > because they also include publications in journals that are harder to > find > > in libraries outside of France). > > > > The link that Dominic sent out also includes a link to an online petition > > to keep Pers?e alive, which I would encourage everyone to sign. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Birgit Kellner > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ------------- > > > > Prof. Dr. Birgit Kellner > > Chair in Buddhist Studies > > Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context - Shifting > > Asymmetries in Cultural Flows" > > University of Heidelberg > > Karl Jaspers Centre > > Vossstra?e 2, Building 4400 > > D-69115 Heidelberg > > Phone: +49(0)6221 - 54 4301 > > Fax: +49(0)6221 - 54 4012 > > http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/en/home.html > > > From martin.gansten at PBHOME.SE Wed Mar 9 21:24:23 2011 From: martin.gansten at PBHOME.SE (Martin Gansten) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 22:24:23 +0100 Subject: Tartars in Sanskrit? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091790.23782.16111965909778543444.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 796 Lines: 21 Although I can't claim any real knowledge of the history of the name, I do believe the first r to be a corruption, albeit a readily understandable one (ta-tar > tar-tar, by analogy), which could have occurred in Indian languages as well as in Latin. T?rt?ya does look rather odd, but the meaning would fit very well. Here is the snippet: brahmadve?ituru?kasambhavam ida? t?rt?yaka? vidyate ??stra? [...] Martin Lubin, Tim skrev 2011-03-09 21:55: > I have always been led to believe that 'Tartar' was a European > corruption of 'T?t?r' (as in Persian), perhaps by association with > Latin Tartarus. In that case, I would have expected a Sanskrit > rendering to be begin taataar- or taatar-, no? Or are matters less > clearcut than that? Perhaps you can give us the relevant snippet. From swantam at ASIANETINDIA.COM Wed Mar 9 18:00:40 2011 From: swantam at ASIANETINDIA.COM (Maheswaran Nair) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 11 23:30:40 +0530 Subject: yoga discussion Message-ID: <161227091774.23782.14706031838009429375.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 387 Lines: 14 Hello, At least in Patanjali's Yogasutra the term yoga is used in the sense of eightfold yoga the limbs being yama, niyama, asana, pranayama, pratyahara, dharana, dhyana and samadhi. In modern times the term yoga is used in all languages mainly in the sense of asana. So it is only a matter of specialisation. Why homonym/polynym discussion? K.Maheswaran Nair Trivandrum Kerala From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Wed Mar 9 23:57:52 2011 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 11 00:57:52 +0100 Subject: forwarded request: Indogaku Bukkyogaku Kenkyu, 1 4, 1965, p.26-37 ??? In-Reply-To: <539922.46903.qm@web43132.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227091794.23782.14306402119768821482.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1637 Lines: 26 Am 10.03.2011 um 00:01 schrieb Jan E.M. Houben: > forwarded message > From: Viktoria Lyssenko To: indology at liverpool.ac.ukDate: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 17:08:16 +0300Subject: a paper from Indogaku Bukkyogaku Kenkyu, 1 4.Dear all!Does anyone have access to an electronic copy of Kajiyama Yuichi's paper "Controversy between the sakara- and nirakara-vadins of the Yogacara school - Some materials", published in Indogaku Bukkyogaku Kenkyu, 1 4, 1965, p.26-37. I have looked through the on line-archive of this journal but this paper was not there.Any other enlightening materials on this difficult subject are also welcome! I am trying to write an entry about this subject for the Encyclopedia of Buddhist Philosophy which is under preparation in my Institute, but the more I read the less I understand: those whom I believed to be nirakaravadins seem to be sakaravadins, and vice versa.Best regards,Victoria LysenkoResearch Professor,Institute of PhilosophyRussian Academy of SciencesMoscow All volumes of IBK from 1952 to 2007 are available here: URL: And the article in question is here: URL: Shortened URL: It is from the part of the journal with two different page numberings (p. 26-37 correspond to p. 429-418 of the Japanese numbering scheme). Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Thu Mar 10 14:21:26 2011 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 11 08:21:26 -0600 Subject: Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton---Add "dharma" In-Reply-To: <117A5051-EE39-4083-A61D-9D7AF05F0365@safarmer.com> Message-ID: <161227091823.23782.13061351023761418269.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1566 Lines: 41 Some of those who are interested in the substantive question of the evolution of the asana system (and not the quibble about the use of the word "homonym") may wish to take a look at the documentary film "Yogis of Tibet." This includes a striking scene of a monk performing the physical yoga taught in connection with the "Six Dharmas of Naropa." Of course, one cannot affirm that this practice, in the form now known, strictly repeats 10th-11th century Indian Buddhist practice, as is claimed. But it should be noted that the textual record about it in Tibet does trace back at least to the 12th c., so there is no reason to imagine that it is a very recent invention, though it may have undergone some changes over time. What is notable is that, although it does involve poses that also are practiced in Hatha Yoga as we know it today, it resembles the latter practice not at all. It is far more dynamic. I am not sure that it allows us to draw any firm conclusions about the evolution of the asana system, but it does, in my view, add a small bit to the evidence in favor of Singleton's essential argument (which is not, as some have pointed out, the silly question about whether "yoga" has become a homonym or not). I am convinced that he is correct to hold that modern gymnastic yoga emerged under the raj, and that the physical practices of earlier Hatha Yoga were quite different. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Thu Mar 10 05:04:30 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 11 10:34:30 +0530 Subject: Pers=?iso-8859-15?Q?=E9e?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091808.23782.17854752756923062270.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2217 Lines: 88 I signed. DB --- On Thu, 10/3/11, George Thompson wrote: From: George Thompson Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Pers?e To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Thursday, 10 March, 2011, 3:08 AM I too will sign. George Thompson On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > This is grim news. Pers?e is a magnificent resource, and like Birgit, I've > used it often. > > If the forces of darkness prevail, I hope they will at least transfer the > existing digitized materials to a public repository such as the Hathi > Trust. > > I've signed the petition.? Thank you for alerting me, Dominic. > > Best, > DW > > > On 9 March 2011 14:42, Birgit Kellner < > kellner at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de >? > wrote: > > > On 09.03.2011 12:45, Dominic Goodall wrote: > > > Dear List, > > > > > > Here's some rather depressing information about the site Pers?e (which > I > > use rather frequently for downloading articles of the BEFEO, for > instance): > > > > > > http://www.fabula.org/actualites/le-programme-persee-menace_43415.php > > > > > > Dominic Goodall > > > ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient, > > > 19, rue Dumas, > > > Pondicherry 605001 > > > > This is really bad news - Pers?e is a truly invaluable resource; I've > > downloaded many articles from there (just search for Bareau, Filliozat, > > Lamotte, Levi, and the riches are just pouring in, particularly > interesting > > because they also include publications in journals that are harder to > find > > in libraries outside of France). > > > > The link that Dominic sent out also includes a link to an online petition > > to keep Pers?e alive, which I would encourage everyone to sign. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Birgit Kellner > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ------------- > > > > Prof. Dr. Birgit Kellner > > Chair in Buddhist Studies > > Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context - Shifting > > Asymmetries in Cultural Flows" > > University of Heidelberg > > Karl Jaspers Centre > > Vossstra?e 2, Building 4400 > > D-69115 Heidelberg > > Phone: +49(0)6221 - 54 4301 > > Fax: +49(0)6221 - 54 4012 > > http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/en/home.html > > > From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 10 16:19:19 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 11 11:19:19 -0500 Subject: Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton---Add "dharma" In-Reply-To: <20110310082126.AJV93451@mstore02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227091825.23782.12244405393490029416.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2205 Lines: 59 Dear List, We are all familiar with the dvanda compound naama-ruupa. I think that both of these terms refer to things that are substantive. If you are a thoughtful person, you know that the use of words is important -- not a quibble at all. I happen to think that Singleton's use of words is sloppy, if not deceptive. Those of you who care more about asanas than words can ignore everything that I have said in this discussion. I myself am done with it, and disgusted with it. George Thompson On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 9:21 AM, wrote: > Some of those who are interested in the substantive > question of the evolution of the asana system > (and not the quibble about the use of the word > "homonym") may wish to take a look at the documentary > film "Yogis of Tibet." This includes a striking scene > of a monk performing the physical yoga taught > in connection with the "Six Dharmas of Naropa." > > Of course, one cannot affirm that this practice, in > the form now known, strictly repeats 10th-11th century > Indian Buddhist practice, as is claimed. But it > should be noted that the textual record about it in > Tibet does trace back at least to the 12th c., so > there is no reason to imagine that it is a very recent > invention, though it may have undergone some changes > over time. > > What is notable is that, although it does involve poses > that also are practiced in Hatha Yoga as we know it today, > it resembles the latter practice not at all. It is > far more dynamic. > > I am not sure that it allows us to draw any firm conclusions > about the evolution of the asana system, but it does, > in my view, add a small bit to the evidence in favor > of Singleton's essential argument (which is not, as > some have pointed out, the silly question about whether > "yoga" has become a homonym or not). I am convinced > that he is correct to hold that modern gymnastic yoga > emerged under the raj, and that the physical practices > of earlier Hatha Yoga were quite different. > > > Matthew T. Kapstein > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies > The University of Chicago Divinity School > Directeur d'?tudes > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Thu Mar 10 20:21:03 2011 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 11 14:21:03 -0600 Subject: Sad news Message-ID: <161227091833.23782.13760041727190066463.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 165 Lines: 6 Given that no post has appeared yet, I want to let everyone know that I learnt from CESMEO that Professor Siegfried Lienhard has passed away on March 6. Patrick From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 10 13:22:25 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 11 14:22:25 +0100 Subject: Workshop announcement, Vienna March 25-26: Information Technologies and Innovation in Sanskrit-Based Indian Studies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091820.23782.2726560954947598158.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 630 Lines: 21 Workshop (?Festival of India? 2011) Information Technologies and Innovation in Sanskrit-Based Indian Studies March 25 ? 26, 2011 at The Department for South Asian, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies Universit?tscampus, Spitalgasse 2, Hof 2.1 1090 Vienna See attached programme. Further information: e-mail: Alexandra.Boeckle at univie.ac.at Fax +43-1-4277-9435 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Brosch?re-englisch_public.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 102479 bytes Desc: not available URL: From palaniappa at AOL.COM Thu Mar 10 21:02:16 2011 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 11 16:02:16 -0500 Subject: Sad news In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091838.23782.16743840725971613251.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 615 Lines: 26 It is a sad news indeed. He was one of the scholars whose area of expertise included both Indo-Aryan as well as Tamil. His article, "Tamil Literary Conventions and Sanskrit Muktaka Poetry", can be accessed at http://tinyurl.com/46c2po3 on p.78. Regards, Palaniappan -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Olivelle To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Thu, Mar 10, 2011 2:21 pm Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sad news Given that no post has appeared yet, I want to let everyone know that I learnt from CESMEO that Professor Siegfried Lienhard has passed away on March 6. Patrick= From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 10 18:48:08 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 11 19:48:08 +0100 Subject: Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton---Add "dharma" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091830.23782.18395634274390392249.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 511 Lines: 17 The Yogis of Tibet: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1120080712987405885# On 10 March 2011 15:21, wrote: > Some of those who are interested in the substantive > question of the evolution of the asana system > (and not the quibble about the use of the word > "homonym") may wish to take a look at the documentary > film "Yogis of Tibet." This includes a striking scene > of a monk performing the physical yoga taught > in connection with the "Six Dharmas of Naropa." > ... From james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 10 20:49:03 2011 From: james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM (James Hartzell) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 11 21:49:03 +0100 Subject: Yoga Body, a book by Mark Singleton---Add "dharma" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091836.23782.18335528352709420585.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 649 Lines: 21 Thanks Matthew and Dominik for reference to an excellent film On Mar 10, 2011, at 7:48 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > The Yogis of Tibet: > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1120080712987405885# > > On 10 March 2011 15:21, wrote: > >> Some of those who are interested in the substantive >> question of the evolution of the asana system >> (and not the quibble about the use of the word >> "homonym") may wish to take a look at the documentary >> film "Yogis of Tibet." This includes a striking scene >> of a monk performing the physical yoga taught >> in connection with the "Six Dharmas of Naropa." >> > ... From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 10 17:01:33 2011 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 11 22:31:33 +0530 Subject: Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091828.23782.2529906314244808209.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3492 Lines: 50 Dear Tim, This isn't quite what you?re looking for, but perhaps it might help. Post-twelfth-century South Indian Siddh?ntatantras often include Av?ntara-?aivas, typically as the fifth class of ?aivas (out of 5, 7 or 9 classes), below An?di-?aivas, ?di-?aivas, Mah?-?aivas and Anu-?aivas (e.g. P?rva-k?mika 21.36; P?rva-k?ra?a 30:37?8; Ajitatantra 63.16?17; Maku??gama 1.16?17 and 3.72?3). Subdivisions of the Av?ntara-?aivas are to be found towards the beginning of the J?tinir?ayap?rvak?layaprave?avidhi (verses 11ff), edited by Pierre-Sylvain Filliozat in Journal Asiatique 263 (1975):103?117. Dominic On 09-Mar-2011, at 11:17 PM, Lubin, Tim wrote: > Thank you Dipak. Although I do not think there is any connection between the Kasyapottarasa?hita in hand and the medical text called Kasyapasa?hita (if that?s what you refer to), I have checked the latter, and found nothing. Elsewhere in the Kasyapottara itself, so far as I have read, no similar list appear, and a word search of the corpus of Unicode Skt texts on my computer shows no occurrences of, e.g., of strings beginning saivantar, vai??avantar, sudrantar, and the like. So it remains rather anomalous. > > As I said, I can simply guess that Vai??avantarasudra would mean something like Vai??avasudra manqu?, with -antara = ?other? in the sense of ?lesser?, but I still wonder if there is any precedent or parallels for such an expression. > > Tim > > From: Dipak Bhattacharya [mailto:dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 5:24 AM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk; Lubin, Tim > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like > > The word -antara meaning 'others' in a compound usually refers to variants, extras etc. One has to check if a supplementary list is concerned where it will be appropriate to term the new entries as such. Will you check if any list of ;Suudras of the Vai.s.nava-, ;Saiva- etc. varieties has already been mentioned? I shall check the Kaa;syapa-Sa.mhitaa itself. Perhaps, you too can yourself do that. But i will. > Best > DB > > --- On Mon, 7/3/11, Lubin, Tim wrote: > > From: Lubin, Tim > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Monday, 7 March, 2011, 3:21 PM > Dear all, > > Reading the (unpublished) Kaa"syapottarasa.mhitaa (adhyaaya 18), I have been puzzling over the precise implications of some categories of "Suudra described therein, categories including the suffix -antara, as follows (in descending rank order): > Vai.s.nava vs. Vai.s.navaantara, > "Saiva vs. "Saivaantara, > Saamaanya vs. Saamaanyaantara, > Sa.mkara vs. Sa.mkaraantara. > > An initial round of searches has not yielded any parallels that would suggest what distinguishes, e.g.., a 'Vai.s.navaantara"suudra' from a 'Vai.s.nava"suudra'. The text itself is not really explicit, except to suggest that the Vai.s.navaantara is a lower status. In this case, the lower status may be implicitly attributable to association with "Saivas (despite having received the sa.mskaaras taught in the Puraa.nas and Paa~ncaraatra "saastras, noted in the preceding stanza): "saivaagamoktasa.mskaarisambandha.m samavaapya ca | svaya.m ced vai.s.navas ti.s.thed vai.s.navaantara iirita.h || > > Have others encountered similar status-titles in other works? Does 'X-antara' simply imply 'a lesser' or 'not quite an' X? > > Tim Lubin > > > !SIG:4d77555d218712870694385! From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Fri Mar 11 08:43:54 2011 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 11 09:43:54 +0100 Subject: An expression of concern Message-ID: <161227091850.23782.14051439106613039957.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 410 Lines: 17 I believe that there are a number of our colleagues who are living and working in or close to Sendai: I take the liberty of expressing here my--our--most profound wishes for their safety and that of their families. Jonathan -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Fri Mar 11 05:50:14 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 11 11:20:14 +0530 Subject: Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like Message-ID: <161227091844.23782.2792643855189794277.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3581 Lines: 75 --- On Fri, 11/3/11, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like To: "TimLubin" Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 5:34 AM The work I meant is a Vaikh?nasa text of encyclopaedic nature dealing, inter alia, on settlements and temple construction, published as K??yapaj??nak???a?(K??yapasa?hit?), ed P?rthas?rathiBha???c?rya Tirupati1948. I rummaged through at random and unsuccessfully for caste references. Best DB --- On Wed, 9/3/11, Lubin, Tim wrote: From: Lubin, Tim Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 9 March, 2011, 5:47 PM Thank you Dipak.? Although I do not think there is any connection between the Kasyapottarasa?hita in hand and the medical text called Kasyapasa?hita (if that?s what you refer to), I have checked the latter, and found nothing.? Elsewhere in the Kasyapottara itself, so far as I have read, no similar list appear, and a word search of the corpus of Unicode Skt texts on my computer shows no occurrences of, e.g., of strings beginning saivantar, vai??avantar, sudrantar, and the like.? So it remains rather anomalous. As I said, I can simply guess that Vai??avantarasudra would mean something like Vai??avasudra manqu?, with -antara = ?other? in the sense of ?lesser?, but I still wonder if there is any precedent or parallels for such an expression. Tim From: Dipak Bhattacharya [mailto:dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 5:24 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk; Lubin, Tim Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like The word -antara meaning 'others' in a compound usually refers to variants, extras etc. One has to check if a supplementary list is concerned where it will be appropriate to term the new entries as such. Will you check if any list of ;Suudras of the Vai.s.nava-, ;Saiva- etc. varieties has already been mentioned? I shall check the Kaa;syapa-Sa.mhitaa itself.? Perhaps, you too can yourself do that. But i will. Best DB --- On Mon, 7/3/11, Lubin, Tim wrote: From: Lubin, Tim Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 7 March, 2011, 3:21 PM Dear all, Reading the (unpublished) Kaa"syapottarasa.mhitaa (adhyaaya 18), I have been puzzling over the precise implications of some categories of "Suudra described therein, categories including the suffix -antara, as follows (in descending rank order): Vai.s.nava vs. Vai.s.navaantara, "Saiva vs. "Saivaantara, Saamaanya vs. Saamaanyaantara, Sa.mkara vs. Sa.mkaraantara. An initial round of searches has not yielded any parallels that would suggest what distinguishes, e.g.., a 'Vai.s.navaantara"suudra' from a 'Vai.s.nava"suudra'.? The text itself is not really explicit, except to suggest that the Vai.s.navaantara is a lower status.? In this case, the lower status may be implicitly attributable to association with "Saivas (despite having received the sa.mskaaras taught in the Puraa.nas and Paa~ncaraatra "saastras, noted in the preceding stanza): "saivaagamoktasa.mskaarisambandha.m samavaapya ca | svaya.m ced vai.s.navas ti.s.thed vai.s.navaantara iirita.h || Have others encountered similar status-titles in other works?? Does 'X-antara' simply imply 'a lesser' or 'not quite an' X? Tim Lubin !SIG:4d77555d218712870694385! From ganesan at IFPINDIA.ORG Fri Mar 11 06:45:15 2011 From: ganesan at IFPINDIA.ORG (Ganesan) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 11 12:15:15 +0530 Subject: Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like Message-ID: <161227091846.23782.350236501200030752.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4947 Lines: 130 Regarding Vai.s.nava "suudra-s in the Vaikhanasa system one may not find anything. For, the vaishnavism propounded in the Vaikhanasa Agama-s is exclusively meant for Brahmains. Most probably the reason being, the Vaikhaanasa Agama is claimed to be based on the Aukheya "saakhaa (now extinct ?) of the Yajurveda. Of course there exists a Vaikhanasa mantrapra"sna just as there is the aapastambamantrapra"sna which is fully used by them for all their domestic rites. Further, a vaikhanasa is born by the sacrament called vi.s.nubali performed during pregnancy and not 'made' by diik.saa as in the case of Paa~ncaraatra system. These are the fundamental differences between these two branches of Vaishnava religion. Therefore there cannot be theoretically any vai.s.navaanta"suudra or vai.s.nva"suudra in the vaikhaanasa. With the best wishes, Ganesan Dr.T.Ganesan Senior Researcher in Saivasiddhanta French Institute of Pondicherry UMIFRE 21 CNRS-MAEE 11, St. Louis Street P.B. 33 PONDICHERRY-605001 INDIA Tel: +91 - 413 - 233 4168 ext. 123 E mail: ganesan at ifpindia.org Web: www.ifpindia.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dipak Bhattacharya" To: Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 11:20 AM Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like --- On Fri, 11/3/11, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like To: "TimLubin" Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 5:34 AM The work I meant is a Vaikh?nasa text of encyclopaedic nature dealing, inter alia, on settlements and temple construction, published as K??yapaj??nak???a?(K??yapasa?hit?), ed P?rthas?rathiBha???c?rya Tirupati1948. I rummaged through at random and unsuccessfully for caste references. Best DB --- On Wed, 9/3/11, Lubin, Tim wrote: From: Lubin, Tim Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 9 March, 2011, 5:47 PM Thank you Dipak. Although I do not think there is any connection between the Kasyapottarasa?hita in hand and the medical text called Kasyapasa?hita (if that?s what you refer to), I have checked the latter, and found nothing. Elsewhere in the Kasyapottara itself, so far as I have read, no similar list appear, and a word search of the corpus of Unicode Skt texts on my computer shows no occurrences of, e.g., of strings beginning saivantar, vai??avantar, sudrantar, and the like. So it remains rather anomalous. As I said, I can simply guess that Vai??avantarasudra would mean something like Vai??avasudra manqu?, with -antara = ?other? in the sense of ?lesser?, but I still wonder if there is any precedent or parallels for such an expression. Tim From: Dipak Bhattacharya [mailto:dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 5:24 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk; Lubin, Tim Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like The word -antara meaning 'others' in a compound usually refers to variants, extras etc. One has to check if a supplementary list is concerned where it will be appropriate to term the new entries as such. Will you check if any list of ;Suudras of the Vai.s.nava-, ;Saiva- etc. varieties has already been mentioned? I shall check the Kaa;syapa-Sa.mhitaa itself. Perhaps, you too can yourself do that. But i will. Best DB --- On Mon, 7/3/11, Lubin, Tim wrote: From: Lubin, Tim Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 7 March, 2011, 3:21 PM Dear all, Reading the (unpublished) Kaa"syapottarasa.mhitaa (adhyaaya 18), I have been puzzling over the precise implications of some categories of "Suudra described therein, categories including the suffix -antara, as follows (in descending rank order): Vai.s.nava vs. Vai.s.navaantara, "Saiva vs. "Saivaantara, Saamaanya vs. Saamaanyaantara, Sa.mkara vs. Sa.mkaraantara. An initial round of searches has not yielded any parallels that would suggest what distinguishes, e.g.., a 'Vai.s.navaantara"suudra' from a 'Vai.s.nava"suudra'. The text itself is not really explicit, except to suggest that the Vai.s.navaantara is a lower status. In this case, the lower status may be implicitly attributable to association with "Saivas (despite having received the sa.mskaaras taught in the Puraa.nas and Paa~ncaraatra "saastras, noted in the preceding stanza): "saivaagamoktasa.mskaarisambandha.m samavaapya ca | svaya.m ced vai.s.navas ti.s.thed vai.s.navaantara iirita.h || Have others encountered similar status-titles in other works? Does 'X-antara' simply imply 'a lesser' or 'not quite an' X? Tim Lubin !SIG:4d77555d218712870694385! From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Fri Mar 11 07:04:19 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 11 12:34:19 +0530 Subject: Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091848.23782.3440686643894930179.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5249 Lines: 105 Just a curiosity. Is this vi.s.nubali the same as the wellknown nArAya.navali? DB --- On Fri, 11/3/11, Ganesan wrote: From: Ganesan Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 6:45 AM Regarding Vai.s.nava "suudra-s in the Vaikhanasa system one may not find anything. For, the vaishnavism propounded in the Vaikhanasa Agama-s is exclusively meant for Brahmains. Most probably the reason being, the Vaikhaanasa Agama is claimed to be based on the Aukheya "saakhaa (now extinct ?) of the Yajurveda. Of course there exists a Vaikhanasa mantrapra"sna just as there is the aapastambamantrapra"sna which is fully used by them for all their domestic rites. Further, a vaikhanasa is born by the sacrament called vi.s.nubali performed during pregnancy and not 'made' by diik.saa as in the case of Paa~ncaraatra system. These are the fundamental differences between these two branches of Vaishnava religion. Therefore there cannot be theoretically any vai.s.navaanta"suudra or vai.s.nva"suudra in the vaikhaanasa. With the best wishes, Ganesan Dr.T.Ganesan Senior Researcher in Saivasiddhanta French Institute of Pondicherry UMIFRE 21 CNRS-MAEE 11, St. Louis Street P.B. 33? PONDICHERRY-605001 INDIA Tel: +91 - 413 - 233 4168 ext. 123 E mail: ganesan at ifpindia.org Web: www.ifpindia.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dipak Bhattacharya" To: Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 11:20 AM Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like --- On Fri, 11/3/11, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like To: "TimLubin" Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 5:34 AM The work I meant is a Vaikh?nasa text of encyclopaedic nature dealing, inter alia, on settlements and temple construction, published as K??yapaj??nak???a?(K??yapasa?hit?), ed P?rthas?rathiBha???c?rya Tirupati1948. I rummaged through at random and unsuccessfully for caste references. Best DB --- On Wed, 9/3/11, Lubin, Tim wrote: From: Lubin, Tim Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 9 March, 2011, 5:47 PM Thank you Dipak. Although I do not think there is any connection between the Kasyapottarasa?hita in hand and the medical text called Kasyapasa?hita (if that?s what you refer to), I have checked the latter, and found nothing. Elsewhere in the Kasyapottara itself, so far as I have read, no similar list appear, and a word search of the corpus of Unicode Skt texts on my computer shows no occurrences of, e.g., of strings beginning saivantar, vai??avantar, sudrantar, and the like. So it remains rather anomalous. As I said, I can simply guess that Vai??avantarasudra would mean something like Vai??avasudra manqu?, with -antara = ?other? in the sense of ?lesser?, but I still wonder if there is any precedent or parallels for such an expression. Tim From: Dipak Bhattacharya [mailto:dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 5:24 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk; Lubin, Tim Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like The word -antara meaning 'others' in a compound usually refers to variants, extras etc. One has to check if a supplementary list is concerned where it will be appropriate to term the new entries as such. Will you check if any list of ;Suudras of the Vai.s.nava-, ;Saiva- etc. varieties has already been mentioned? I shall check the Kaa;syapa-Sa.mhitaa itself. Perhaps, you too can yourself do that. But i will. Best DB --- On Mon, 7/3/11, Lubin, Tim wrote: From: Lubin, Tim Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 7 March, 2011, 3:21 PM Dear all, Reading the (unpublished) Kaa"syapottarasa.mhitaa (adhyaaya 18), I have been puzzling over the precise implications of some categories of "Suudra described therein, categories including the suffix -antara, as follows (in descending rank order): Vai.s.nava vs. Vai.s.navaantara, "Saiva vs. "Saivaantara, Saamaanya vs. Saamaanyaantara, Sa.mkara vs. Sa.mkaraantara. An initial round of searches has not yielded any parallels that would suggest what distinguishes, e.g.., a 'Vai.s.navaantara"suudra' from a 'Vai.s.nava"suudra'. The text itself is not really explicit, except to suggest that the Vai.s.navaantara is a lower status. In this case, the lower status may be implicitly attributable to association with "Saivas (despite having received the sa.mskaaras taught in the Puraa.nas and Paa~ncaraatra "saastras, noted in the preceding stanza): "saivaagamoktasa.mskaarisambandha.m samavaapya ca | svaya.m ced vai.s.navas ti.s.thed vai.s.navaantara iirita.h || Have others encountered similar status-titles in other works? Does 'X-antara' simply imply 'a lesser' or 'not quite an' X? Tim Lubin !SIG:4d77555d218712870694385! From ganesan at IFPINDIA.ORG Fri Mar 11 09:09:28 2011 From: ganesan at IFPINDIA.ORG (Ganesan) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 11 14:39:28 +0530 Subject: Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like Message-ID: <161227091853.23782.169226686852043799.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6346 Lines: 115 I think they are different. The naaraaya.nabali as far as I know is connected with funeral rites and mostly performed by vai.s.nava-s other than Brahmins. Ganesan ----- Original Message ----- From: Dipak Bhattacharya To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk ; Ganesan Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like Just a curiosity. Is this vi.s.nubali the same as the wellknown nArAya.navali? DB --- On Fri, 11/3/11, Ganesan wrote: From: Ganesan Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 6:45 AM Regarding Vai.s.nava "suudra-s in the Vaikhanasa system one may not find anything. For, the vaishnavism propounded in the Vaikhanasa Agama-s is exclusively meant for Brahmains. Most probably the reason being, the Vaikhaanasa Agama is claimed to be based on the Aukheya "saakhaa (now extinct ?) of the Yajurveda. Of course there exists a Vaikhanasa mantrapra"sna just as there is the aapastambamantrapra"sna which is fully used by them for all their domestic rites. Further, a vaikhanasa is born by the sacrament called vi.s.nubali performed during pregnancy and not 'made' by diik.saa as in the case of Paa~ncaraatra system. These are the fundamental differences between these two branches of Vaishnava religion. Therefore there cannot be theoretically any vai.s.navaanta"suudra or vai.s.nva"suudra in the vaikhaanasa. With the best wishes, Ganesan Dr.T.Ganesan Senior Researcher in Saivasiddhanta French Institute of Pondicherry UMIFRE 21 CNRS-MAEE 11, St. Louis Street P.B. 33 PONDICHERRY-605001 INDIA Tel: +91 - 413 - 233 4168 ext. 123 E mail: ganesan at ifpindia.org Web: www.ifpindia.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dipak Bhattacharya" To: Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 11:20 AM Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like --- On Fri, 11/3/11, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like To: "TimLubin" Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 5:34 AM The work I meant is a Vaikh?nasa text of encyclopaedic nature dealing, inter alia, on settlements and temple construction, published as K??yapaj??nak???a?(K??yapasa?hit?), ed P?rthas?rathiBha???c?rya Tirupati1948. I rummaged through at random and unsuccessfully for caste references. Best DB --- On Wed, 9/3/11, Lubin, Tim wrote: From: Lubin, Tim Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, 9 March, 2011, 5:47 PM Thank you Dipak. Although I do not think there is any connection between the Kasyapottarasa?hita in hand and the medical text called Kasyapasa?hita (if that?s what you refer to), I have checked the latter, and found nothing. Elsewhere in the Kasyapottara itself, so far as I have read, no similar list appear, and a word search of the corpus of Unicode Skt texts on my computer shows no occurrences of, e.g., of strings beginning saivantar, vai??avantar, sudrantar, and the like. So it remains rather anomalous. As I said, I can simply guess that Vai??avantarasudra would mean something like Vai??avasudra manqu?, with -antara = ?other? in the sense of ?lesser?, but I still wonder if there is any precedent or parallels for such an expression. Tim From: Dipak Bhattacharya [mailto:dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 5:24 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk; Lubin, Tim Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like The word -antara meaning 'others' in a compound usually refers to variants, extras etc. One has to check if a supplementary list is concerned where it will be appropriate to term the new entries as such. Will you check if any list of ;Suudras of the Vai.s.nava-, ;Saiva- etc. varieties has already been mentioned? I shall check the Kaa;syapa-Sa.mhitaa itself. Perhaps, you too can yourself do that. But i will. Best DB --- On Mon, 7/3/11, Lubin, Tim wrote: From: Lubin, Tim Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 7 March, 2011, 3:21 PM Dear all, Reading the (unpublished) Kaa"syapottarasa.mhitaa (adhyaaya 18), I have been puzzling over the precise implications of some categories of "Suudra described therein, categories including the suffix -antara, as follows (in descending rank order): Vai.s.nava vs. Vai.s.navaantara, "Saiva vs. "Saivaantara, Saamaanya vs. Saamaanyaantara, Sa.mkara vs. Sa.mkaraantara. An initial round of searches has not yielded any parallels that would suggest what distinguishes, e.g.., a 'Vai.s.navaantara"suudra' from a 'Vai.s.nava"suudra'. The text itself is not really explicit, except to suggest that the Vai.s.navaantara is a lower status. In this case, the lower status may be implicitly attributable to association with "Saivas (despite having received the sa.mskaaras taught in the Puraa.nas and Paa~ncaraatra "saastras, noted in the preceding stanza): "saivaagamoktasa.mskaarisambandha.m samavaapya ca | svaya.m ced vai.s.navas ti.s.thed vai.s.navaantara iirita.h || Have others encountered similar status-titles in other works? Does 'X-antara' simply imply 'a lesser' or 'not quite an' X? Tim Lubin !SIG:4d77555d218712870694385! From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Mar 11 14:13:23 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 11 15:13:23 +0100 Subject: An expression of concern In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091855.23782.17658548695301022314.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 990 Lines: 35 Thank you, Jonathan, for your most appropriate message. I add my wishes to yours. I am sure that all our colleagues in this discussion forum feel the same way. Dr Dominik Wujastyk Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Vienna Austria On 11 March 2011 09:43, Jonathan Silk wrote: > I believe that there are a number of our colleagues who are living and > working in or close to Sendai: I take the liberty of expressing here > my--our--most profound wishes for their safety and that of their families. > > Jonathan > > -- > J. Silk > Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden > Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS > Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 > Doelensteeg 16 > 2311 VL Leiden > The Netherlands > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From will.sweetman at GMAIL.COM Fri Mar 11 04:34:13 2011 From: will.sweetman at GMAIL.COM (Will Sweetman) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 11 17:34:13 +1300 Subject: Organized opposition to evaluation of journals by the European Reference Index for the Humanities Message-ID: <161227091841.23782.15727116365033870526.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 581 Lines: 8 A couple of years ago Dominik Wujastyk alerted this list to the Journals Under Threat initiative which sought to oppose the evaluation of journals by the European Reference Index for the Humanities. Opposition was led by journals in History of Science, Technology and Medicine, but found support from other bodies, including the Royal Asiatic Society. Does anyone have any recent updates on this initiative? There is no sign of recognition from the ERIH website (http://tinyurl.com/6fmmyaw) that their plans have received anything other than ecstatic approval. Will Sweetman From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sat Mar 12 19:19:35 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 11 20:19:35 +0100 Subject: Organized opposition to evaluation of journals by the European Reference Index for the Humanities In-Reply-To: <3AB23344-B91F-4EF6-97AE-800D4DAA77D4@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227091858.23782.1249075292441332737.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1192 Lines: 28 I've made enquiries, and the people at UCL who initiated this opposition have now moved on (to the USA), and don't know how things unfolded. Their instinct was that this would happen whatever the response from the academic community. Nobody seemed to be listening at the ESF/ERIH. Dominik On 11 March 2011 05:34, Will Sweetman wrote: > A couple of years ago Dominik Wujastyk alerted this list to the Journals > Under Threat initiative which sought to oppose the evaluation of journals by > the European Reference Index for the Humanities. Opposition was led by > journals in History of Science, Technology and Medicine, but found support > from other bodies, including the Royal Asiatic Society. > > Does anyone have any recent updates on this initiative? There is no sign of > recognition from the ERIH website (http://tinyurl.com/6fmmyaw) that their > plans have received anything other than ecstatic approval. > > Will Sweetman > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fujii at ZINBUN.KYOTO-U.AC.JP Mon Mar 14 23:05:07 2011 From: fujii at ZINBUN.KYOTO-U.AC.JP (Masato FUJII) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 11 08:05:07 +0900 Subject: An expression of concern In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091860.23782.1440434330157921246.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1067 Lines: 36 Thank you for your concern. As far as I knows, our Indological colleagues in Sendai --- Proff. Murakami, Goto, Sakamoto-Goto, Yoshimizu, Sakurai, Nishimura ... -- are all safe, and some have already returned to their offices. Masato Fujii ====================================================== Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University Yoshida Honmachi, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8501, Japan E-mail: fujii at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Phone: +81-75-753-6949 Fax: +81-75-753-6903 ====================================================== On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 09:43:54 +0100 Jonathan Silk wrote: > I believe that there are a number of our colleagues who are living and > working in or close to Sendai: I take the liberty of expressing here > my--our--most profound wishes for their safety and that of their families. > > Jonathan > > -- > J. Silk > Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden > Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS > Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 > Doelensteeg 16 > 2311 VL Leiden > The Netherlands From fujii at ZINBUN.KYOTO-U.AC.JP Mon Mar 14 23:09:52 2011 From: fujii at ZINBUN.KYOTO-U.AC.JP (Masato FUJII) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 11 08:09:52 +0900 Subject: An expression of concern Message-ID: <161227091863.23782.14153426662243020091.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1066 Lines: 36 Thank you for your concern. As far as I know, our Indological colleagues in Sendai --- Proff. Murakami, Goto, Sakamoto-Goto, Yoshimizu, Sakurai, Nishimura ... -- are all safe, and some have already returned to their offices. Masato Fujii ====================================================== Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University Yoshida Honmachi, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8501, Japan E-mail: fujii at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Phone: +81-75-753-6949 Fax: +81-75-753-6903 ====================================================== On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 09:43:54 +0100 Jonathan Silk wrote: > I believe that there are a number of our colleagues who are living and > working in or close to Sendai: I take the liberty of expressing here > my--our--most profound wishes for their safety and that of their families. > > Jonathan > > -- > J. Silk > Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden > Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS > Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 > Doelensteeg 16 > 2311 VL Leiden > The Netherlands From conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Tue Mar 15 15:30:19 2011 From: conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Frank Conlon) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 11 08:30:19 -0700 Subject: a postscript on Yoga Message-ID: <161227091871.23782.10715935899836604025.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2582 Lines: 82 Dear Colleagues: As a postscript to our discussions on 'yoga' and its current state, the following advert appeared on the H-Net Announcements, you may note the odd holdover that led the poster to give the location as Yugoslavia! Perhaps it should be Yogaslavia?? Frank Frank F. Conlon Professor Emeritus of History, South Asian Studies & Comparative Religion University of Washington Seattle, WA 98195-3560 USA Co-editor, H-ASIA Managing Director, Bibliography of Asian Studies Online YOGA IN SCIENCE - FUTURE AND PERSPECTIVES Location: Yugoslavia Conference Date: 2011-08-11 Date Submitted: 2011-03-10 Announcement ID: 183755 SCIENTIFIC-PROFESSIONAL INTERDISCIPLINARY CONFERENCE WITH INTERNATIONAL PARTICIPATION YOGA IN SCIENCE FUTURE AND PERSPECTIVES BELGRADE, SERBIA, AUGUST 11-12, 2011 INVITATION FOR PARTICIPATION ORGANIZERS OF THE INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE: YOGA FEDERATION OF SERBIA YOGA CENTER OF SERBIA CENTER FOR RESEARCH AND IMPLEMENTATION OF EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE ASSOCIATION FOR MULTIDISCIPLINARY RESEARCH OF YOGA BELGRADE, SERBIA GOAL OF THE SCIENTIFIC CONFERENCE Goal of this scientific conference is presentation of theoretical and empirical researches of Yoga discovering variety of its representation and implementation in many scientific fields. Goal of the scientific program of the conference is to include as wide multidisciplinary and complementary aspects of Yoga as possible. This conference is going to gather leading professors, scientists, doctors and experts from different scientific areas who research phenomena, ranges and effects of the yoga implementation. THEMES: ALL SCIENTIFIC FIELDS DATE AND VENUE OF THE CONFERENCE Conference is going to be held in Belgrade, Serbia, on August 11-12, 2011, organized by OFFICIAL LANGUAGE OF THE CONFERENCE Official languages of the conference are Serbian and English. Papers may be written and presented in these two languages. For all further information please contact us or visit our web sites. Resfectfully, Prof. PhD Predrag Nikic President of the Yoga Federation of Serbia Bosiljka Janjusevic, Certified Instructor of the Yoga Center of Serbia, Belgrade, Serbia Mobile: 00381638398120 www.yogasavezsrbije.com www.yogacentarsrbije.com www.yoga-science.rs www.joga-akademija.com Email: yogafederationofserbia at gmail.com Visit the website at http://www.yogasavezsrbije.com http://www.yogacentarsrbije.com http://www.yoga-science.rs http://www.joga-akademija.com Email: yogafederationofserbia at gmail.com Visit the website at http://www.yogasavezsrbije.com From astol007 at GATTAMELATA.COM Tue Mar 15 08:22:00 2011 From: astol007 at GATTAMELATA.COM (Alexander Stolyarov) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 11 11:22:00 +0300 Subject: Fwd: NEWS: A 2,200-year-old piece of silk found in Sri Lanka Message-ID: <161227091865.23782.15001985264257899359.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2132 Lines: 66 -------- ???????? ????????? -------- ????: NEWS: A 2,200-year-old piece of silk found in Sri Lanka ????: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 21:11:25 -0700 (PDT) ??: Yadamini Gunawardena ????: ecai at berkeley.edu The Australian National University has dated a piece of silk cloth, dug up from excavations at the Delivala Stupa in Rambukkana (Sri Lanka), to be 2,200 years old, Director General of the Department of Archaeology Dr. Senarath Dissnayake told The Island yesterday. "This piece of silk, found during an excavation in 2001, belonged to the second century BC and it is the oldest piece of textile found in Sri Lanka, according to the conclusions of the Carbon 14 dating process led by Prof Judith Cameron of the Australian National University," he said. Dr. Dissanayake said that this artifact once again confirms the historical and archaeological evidences that Sri Lanka was a hub in the ancient maritime silk route. This also validates the historical accounts of trade and other links Sri Lanka had with China. Not only silk and spices but also Buddhism had traversed the ancient silk route. "This had been used to wrap a metal relic casket which is a miniature replica of a stupa. The silk had been faded, therefore it is difficult to ascertain its original colour until further laboratory investigations," he said. The silk had been adorned with beads embedded into it, Dr. Dissanayake said adding that the artifact was now kept at the Delivala Stupa site with security and if the need arose it would be shifted to the National Museum. http://www.island.lk/index.php?page_cat=article-details&page=article-details&code_title=20700 Yadamini NR Gunawardena (BSc-WI, US, MIEEE) Information & Communication Technologies Consultant Innovative & Creative Technology Solutions 84, Kirillapona Avenue, Colombo-05 00500 Sri Lanka -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 495 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Mar 15 10:49:37 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 11 11:49:37 +0100 Subject: Fwd: India Summer Program In-Reply-To: <4D7F33C5.5050700@knowledge-must.com> Message-ID: <161227091868.23782.11335575766575933889.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1597 Lines: 48 All responses to the email address below, please. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Daniel Ratheiser Date: 15 March 2011 10:39 Subject: India Summer Program Dear Dominik, I hope you doing great. We at Knowledge Must have been very busy (as usual), and have just launchend a new project, and besides the fact that we just want to let you know about it, we are also always grateful for a little assistance to spread the word... This new project is called the "India Summer Program" and, in a nutshell, it's a 4 weeks program with intensive Hindustani language training, seminars on Indian Culture, Politics, and Society and unique excursions and field trips in Delhi, and to Varanasi, Rishikesh, and Alwar. All the facts about the program can be found at the newly launched website: http://www.summerinindia.com and the detailed program can be downloaded from here: http://www.summerinindia.com/India_Summer_Program_2011_-_Detailed_Program.pdf Looking forward to your feedback and many thanks for your interest. Best regards, Daniel -- ############################################ Daniel Ratheiser, Managing Director Knowledge Must New Delhi, India Phone/Fax: +91-(0)11-41752064 Mobile: +91-(0)99-10733957 Email: daniel.ratheiser at knowledge-must.com Website: www.knowledge-must.com ############################################ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Tue Mar 15 17:41:24 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 11 13:41:24 -0400 Subject: a postscript on Yoga In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091873.23782.15498839561183621280.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2964 Lines: 87 On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Frank Conlon wrote: > Dear Colleagues: > > As a postscript to our discussions on 'yoga' and its current state, the > following advert appeared on the H-Net Announcements, you may note the > odd holdover that led the poster to give the location as Yugoslavia! > Perhaps it should be Yogaslavia?? > > Frank > > Frank F. Conlon > Professor Emeritus of History, South Asian > Studies & Comparative Religion > University of Washington > Seattle, WA 98195-3560 USA > Co-editor, H-ASIA > Managing Director, Bibliography of Asian Studies Online > > YOGA IN SCIENCE - FUTURE AND PERSPECTIVES > > Location: Yugoslavia > Conference Date: 2011-08-11 > Date Submitted: 2011-03-10 > Announcement ID: 183755 > > SCIENTIFIC-PROFESSIONAL INTERDISCIPLINARY CONFERENCE WITH INTERNATIONAL > PARTICIPATION YOGA IN SCIENCE FUTURE AND PERSPECTIVES > BELGRADE, SERBIA, AUGUST 11-12, 2011 > > INVITATION FOR PARTICIPATION > > ORGANIZERS OF THE INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE: > YOGA FEDERATION OF SERBIA > YOGA CENTER OF SERBIA > CENTER FOR RESEARCH AND IMPLEMENTATION OF EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE > ASSOCIATION FOR MULTIDISCIPLINARY RESEARCH OF YOGA > BELGRADE, SERBIA > > GOAL OF THE SCIENTIFIC CONFERENCE Goal of this scientific conference is > presentation of theoretical and empirical researches of Yoga discovering > variety of its representation and implementation in many scientific fields. > Goal of the scientific program of the conference is to include as wide > multidisciplinary and complementary aspects of Yoga as possible. This > conference is going to gather leading professors, scientists, doctors and > experts from different scientific areas who research phenomena, ranges and > effects of the yoga implementation. > > THEMES: ALL SCIENTIFIC FIELDS > > DATE AND VENUE OF THE CONFERENCE > Conference is going to be held in Belgrade, Serbia, on August 11-12, 2011, > organized by > > OFFICIAL LANGUAGE OF THE CONFERENCE > Official languages of the conference are Serbian and English. Papers may be > written and presented in these two languages. > > For all further information please contact us or visit our web sites. > > Resfectfully, > > Prof. PhD Predrag Nikic > President of the Yoga Federation of Serbia > > > Bosiljka Janjusevic, > Certified Instructor of the Yoga Center of Serbia, > Belgrade, Serbia > Mobile: 00381638398120 > www.yogasavezsrbije.com > www.yogacentarsrbije.com > www.yoga-science.rs > www.joga-akademija.com > Email: yogafederationofserbia at gmail.com > Visit the website at http://www.yogasavezsrbije.com > http://www.yogacentarsrbije.com > http://www.yoga-science.rs > http://www.joga-akademija.com > Email: yogafederationofserbia at gmail.com > Visit the website at http://www.yogasavezsrbije.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Tue Mar 15 17:48:50 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 11 13:48:50 -0400 Subject: a postscript on Yoga In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091877.23782.2803286974686582295.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4091 Lines: 122 Dear List, This is what I meant to send to the list, and not just to Frank. Sorry for the little mistake. George >>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Frank, I do think that "yogaslavia" may be the better reading here. On the other hand, the term "yogaslavia" may refer instead to the state of California, where I lived for nearly 20 years, and where yogaslavians outnumbered the state's two major political parties by far. And they still do. So, is the first member of this compound a loanword from Sanskrit, or is it some kind of homonym of itself? And what exactly is the etymology of the second member? In any case, after studying yoga for a few years in San Francisco in the 70's, I quickly realized that I was much more interested in words [Sanskrit ones, of course, among many others] than in asanas. And so I became a Vedicist instead of a yogin. Best, George p.s. the new from Japan keeps on getting worser and worser.... it is vey upsetting! >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 1:41 PM, George Thompson wrote: > > > On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Frank Conlon wrote: > >> Dear Colleagues: >> >> As a postscript to our discussions on 'yoga' and its current state, the >> following advert appeared on the H-Net Announcements, you may note the >> odd holdover that led the poster to give the location as Yugoslavia! >> Perhaps it should be Yogaslavia?? >> >> Frank >> >> Frank F. Conlon >> Professor Emeritus of History, South Asian >> Studies & Comparative Religion >> University of Washington >> Seattle, WA 98195-3560 USA >> Co-editor, H-ASIA >> Managing Director, Bibliography of Asian Studies Online >> >> YOGA IN SCIENCE - FUTURE AND PERSPECTIVES >> >> Location: Yugoslavia >> Conference Date: 2011-08-11 >> Date Submitted: 2011-03-10 >> Announcement ID: 183755 >> >> SCIENTIFIC-PROFESSIONAL INTERDISCIPLINARY CONFERENCE WITH INTERNATIONAL >> PARTICIPATION YOGA IN SCIENCE FUTURE AND PERSPECTIVES >> BELGRADE, SERBIA, AUGUST 11-12, 2011 >> >> INVITATION FOR PARTICIPATION >> >> ORGANIZERS OF THE INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE: >> YOGA FEDERATION OF SERBIA >> YOGA CENTER OF SERBIA >> CENTER FOR RESEARCH AND IMPLEMENTATION OF EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE >> ASSOCIATION FOR MULTIDISCIPLINARY RESEARCH OF YOGA >> BELGRADE, SERBIA >> >> GOAL OF THE SCIENTIFIC CONFERENCE Goal of this scientific conference is >> presentation of theoretical and empirical researches of Yoga discovering >> variety of its representation and implementation in many scientific fields. >> Goal of the scientific program of the conference is to include as wide >> multidisciplinary and complementary aspects of Yoga as possible. This >> conference is going to gather leading professors, scientists, doctors and >> experts from different scientific areas who research phenomena, ranges and >> effects of the yoga implementation. >> >> THEMES: ALL SCIENTIFIC FIELDS >> >> DATE AND VENUE OF THE CONFERENCE >> Conference is going to be held in Belgrade, Serbia, on August 11-12, 2011, >> organized by >> >> OFFICIAL LANGUAGE OF THE CONFERENCE >> Official languages of the conference are Serbian and English. Papers may >> be written and presented in these two languages. >> >> For all further information please contact us or visit our web sites. >> >> Resfectfully, >> >> Prof. PhD Predrag Nikic >> President of the Yoga Federation of Serbia >> >> >> Bosiljka Janjusevic, >> Certified Instructor of the Yoga Center of Serbia, >> Belgrade, Serbia >> Mobile: 00381638398120 >> www.yogasavezsrbije.com >> www.yogacentarsrbije.com >> www.yoga-science.rs >> www.joga-akademija.com >> Email: yogafederationofserbia at gmail.com >> Visit the website at http://www.yogasavezsrbije.com >> http://www.yogacentarsrbije.com >> http://www.yoga-science.rs >> http://www.joga-akademija.com >> Email: yogafederationofserbia at gmail.com >> Visit the website at http://www.yogasavezsrbije.com >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK Thu Mar 17 09:34:11 2011 From: J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK (J L Brockington) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 11 09:34:11 +0000 Subject: Fwd: International Conference EOS700 at Salamanca Message-ID: <161227091882.23782.18429465596074234044.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2262 Lines: 65 Dear Colleagues, I have been asked to circulate the message below and am pleased to forward it to the list. Please contact the organisers direct, if you are interested. Yours John Brockington Professor J. L. Brockington Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies Asian Studies 7-8 Buccleuch Place Edinburgh EH8 9LW ----- Forwarded message from anaagud at usal.es ----- Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 10:17:40 +0100 From: anaagud at usal.es Subject: International Conference EOS700 at Salamanca To: "J.L.Brockington at ed.ac.uk" Dear Sir! In the University of Salamanca we have decided to commemorate with an International Conference the official beginning of Oriental Studies in Europe, which is the "Canon" of Pope Clemens at the Vienne Concile 1311 (exactly 7 centuries ago) urging the Universities of Salamanca, Bologna, Paris and Oxford to teach oriental languages, concretely Hebrew, Arabic and "Chaldaean". Our main aim is to put in contact Spanish Oriental Studies with the European ones. We have had a long tradition of Semitic Studies, but other oriental cultures and languages have only a brief and difficult tradition, because of the rigidity of our University system. Notwithstanding there have developed several research teams, mainly about India, Iran, China, Japan and Philippines. Wee would like to present theses studies and to discuss with our colleagues of other countries the actual developments and the role of Oriental Studies in modern societies. I attach You our "call for papers" and I beg You to include it in Your Home Page and to broadcast it among the members of IASS. Thank You in advance. Sincerely Your's Ana Agud Prof. for Indoeuropean Studies University of Salamanca, Spain ----- End forwarded message ----- -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Callforpapersingl?s.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 14250 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU Thu Mar 17 07:27:53 2011 From: vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU (Viktoria Lyssenko) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 11 10:27:53 +0300 Subject: the e-mail address of Dr. Kazunori Sasaki Message-ID: <161227091879.23782.337389162299070595.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 251 Lines: 9 Dear list, Could anybody send me the e-mail address of Japanese scholar Kazunori Sasaki? He gave it to me, but I lost a peace of paper where it was written. Thank you in advance. Victoria Lysenko Institute of philosophy Russian Academy of Sciences From mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 17 16:18:35 2011 From: mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 11 12:18:35 -0400 Subject: Sv=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81yambhuvatantra?= Message-ID: <161227091885.23782.16543562807271337914.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 533 Lines: 16 Dear Friends and Colleagues, Can someone share with me the following edition of the Sv?yambhuvatantra in a PDF form ? I would highly appreciate your help. You may write to me off-list. Thank you very much in advance. <> Yours sincerely, Mrinal Kaul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richard.gombrich at BALLIOL.OX.AC.UK Thu Mar 17 16:23:56 2011 From: richard.gombrich at BALLIOL.OX.AC.UK (Richard Gombrich) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 11 16:23:56 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?New_book_on_=E1=B9=9Ag_Veda?= In-Reply-To: <0dac75ad08fd4a6cc68162057ee7f033.squirrel@srvc1.oeaw.ac.at> Message-ID: <161227091887.23782.7751151512412892274.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1171 Lines: 13 I would like to draw the attention of colleagues to the publication by Joanna Jurewicz, Fire and Cognition in the ?gveda, ELIPSA, Warsaw 2010. ISBN 978-83-7151-893-5 (pbk), 485pp. Her use of cognitive linguistics as a key to unlock the meanings of many Vedic passages hitherto considered obscure is to my mind completely convincing. Rarely does it happen that anyone follows a new approach to interpreting an acknowledged masterpiece of world literature, and more rarely still are the results so illuminating that they may rank as a true discovery. The book is not available on Amazon, but it is cheap http://www.prus24.pl (this page is in English), put in keywords fire & Veda. Click to put in your basket. Then proceed to checkout. At this stage you will be asked to open an account. This is normal for bookshops and is without obligation. You will receive confirmation by email and then you can click on the link given in this email and proceed to payment page. Richard Gombrich -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clarsha at MCMASTER.CA Thu Mar 17 22:00:21 2011 From: clarsha at MCMASTER.CA (Shayne Clarke) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 11 18:00:21 -0400 Subject: April 15: Gregory Schopen on Debt, Slavery, and Who could Become a Buddhist Nun Message-ID: <161227091895.23782.12554198038711189545.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1887 Lines: 45 Dear colleagues, The University of Toronto/McMaster University Yehan Numata Buddhist Studies Program is pleased to announce a free, public lecture by Professor Gregory Schopen (UCLA): ?The Limited Reach of Religious Doctrine: Debt, Slavery, and Who could Become a Buddhist Nun (or Monk) in Early India.? Time and date: 5 pm, April 15, 2011 Place: Muzzo Family Alumni Hall 100, University of St. Michael?s College, St. Joseph Street, Toronto Sponsored by the University of Toronto/McMaster University Yehan Numata Buddhist Studies Program Professor Gregory Schopen (MA McMaster University, 1975; PhD ANU, 1979) has taught at the Universities of Michigan, Washington, Indiana, Texas, Stanford, and California. He was awarded a prestigious MacArthur ?genius? fellowship (1985-1990) in recognition of his work in Buddhist Studies, which has been described as ?Unquestionably the freshest, most exciting scholarship to have emerged in the field in half a century.? Professor Schopen?s numerous publications include: ? Bones, Stones and Buddhist Monks. University of Hawai?i Press, 1997. ? Buddhist Monks and Business Matters. University of Hawai?i Press, 2004. ? Figments and Fragments of Mah?y?na Buddhism in India. University of Hawai?i Press, 2005. For more information, contact Shayne Clarke: clarsha at mcmaster.ca http://buddhiststudies.chass.utoronto.ca/gregory-schopen/ Please circulate widely. Sincerely, Shayne Clarke ------------------- Shayne Clarke Department of Religious Studies McMaster University University Hall, Room 104 1280 Main Street West Hamilton, Ontario L8S 4K1 CANADA Phone: 905 525 9140, ext. 23389 Fax: 905 525 8161 clarsha[at]mcmaster.ca http://socserv.mcmaster.ca/clarsha/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clarsha at MCMASTER.CA Thu Mar 17 22:26:31 2011 From: clarsha at MCMASTER.CA (Shayne Clarke) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 11 18:26:31 -0400 Subject: Conference on Buddhist Nuns in India Message-ID: <161227091898.23782.12479563901563899847.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3269 Lines: 55 Dear colleagues, The University of Toronto/McMaster University Yehan Numata Buddhist Studies Program is pleased to announce an international conference on the lives of ordained Buddhist nuns in India from the time of the Buddha until the eventual disappearance of the bhik?u?? sa?gha from Indian soil. Buddhist Nuns in India April 16-17, 2011, University of Toronto Trinity College, Combination Room. 6 Hoskin Avenue, Toronto Sponsored by the University of Toronto/McMaster University Yehan Numata Buddhist Studies Program All conference sessions are free and open to the public. For more information, contact Shayne Clarke: clarsha at mcmaster.ca http://buddhiststudies.chass.utoronto.ca/buddhist-nuns-in-india/ Panelists include: Shayne Clarke (McMaster University) "Gu?aprabha, Yijing, Bu sTon and the Lack of a Coherent System of Rules for Nuns in the Tibetan Tradition of the M?lasarv?stiv?da-vinaya" Christoph Emmrich (University of Toronto, Mississauga) "And Then There Were None? Mrs. Shakya and the Sketchy History of the Nepalese Bhik?u??s" Ann Heirman (University of Gent) "Beyond Gender: Bodily Care in Indian Buddhist Monasticism" Oskar von Hin?ber (Universit?t Freiburg) "Pious and Useful: Women Who did Not Become Nuns in Early Buddhism" Hiraoka Satoshi (Kyoto Bunkyo? University) "Did Ya?odhar? become a Nun? On the Indebtedness of the Lotus S?tra to the M?lasarv?stiv?da-vinaya" Petra Kieffer-P?lz (Martin-Luther-Universit?t, Halle-Wittenberg) "Buddhist Nuns in South India as Reflected in the Andhaka??hakath? and the Anuga??hipada" Jinah Kim (Vanderbilt University) "At the Feet of the Buddha: Representations of Buddhist Nuns and Monastic Women in Medieval South Asia" Kishino Ry?ji (University of California, Los Angeles) "On Possible Misunderstandings of the Brahmacaryopasth?nasa?v?ti Requirement for Female Ordination in the M?lasarv?stiv?da-vinaya" Jason Neelis (Wilfrid Laurier University) "Female Ownership of Buddhist Monasteries? A Closer Look at Vih?rasv?min?s and Feminine Patronage in South Asian Sources" Sasaki Shizuka (Hanazono University) "An Analytical Study of the Bhik?u?? P?r?jika rules in the Vinayas" Gregory Schopen (University of California, Los Angeles) "The Buddhist Nun as an Urban Landlord and a 'Legal Person' in Early India" Jampa Tsedroen (Universit?t Hamburg) "The Foundation of the Order of Buddhist Nuns According to the Tibetan Translation of the K?udrakavastu of the M?lasarv?stiv?da-vinaya" Yao Fumi (Tokyo University) "The Story of Dharmadinn?: Ordination by Messenger in the M?lasarv?stiv?da-vinaya" Yonezawa Yoshiyasu (Taish? University) "Re-editing the Bhik?u??-vibha?ga Section of the Vinayas?tra" Respondents: Kate Crosby (University of London), Paul Groner (University of Virginia), Shimoda Masahiro (Tokyo University) Sincerely, Shayne Clarke ------------------- Shayne Clarke Department of Religious Studies McMaster University University Hall, Room 104 1280 Main Street West Hamilton, Ontario L8S 4K1 CANADA Phone: 905 525 9140, ext. 23389 Fax: 905 525 8161 clarsha[at]mcmaster.ca http://socserv.mcmaster.ca/clarsha/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Fri Mar 18 03:10:10 2011 From: conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Frank Conlon) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 11 20:10:10 -0700 Subject: The City in Sanskrit literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091903.23782.3756476572047367821.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1079 Lines: 37 McComas and Andrew, Not a text, but an interesting reading would be A. K. Ramanujan, "Towards an Anthology of City Images" pp. 224-242 in Richard G. Fox, editor, _Urban India: Society, Space and Image_ (Durham, N.C. Duke University Program in Comparative Studies on Southern Asia, 1970) [Monograph and Occasional Papers Series, Monograph 2]--which contrasts treatment of cities in Sanskrit literature with that of Tamil literature. Frank Frank F. Conlon Professor Emeritus of History, South Asian Studies & Comparative Religion University of Washington Seattle, WA 98195-3560 USA Co-editor, H-ASIA Managing Director, Bibliography of Asian Studies Online On Fri, 18 Mar 2011, McComas Taylor wrote: > Dear Colleague > > I fine student of mine, Andrew Donnelly, is working on the concept of the > city in Sanskrit literature. If you come across any references or > descriptions of cities in your readings, would you be be kind enough to > forward the references to him at: > > andrewgdonnelly at gmail.com > > With thanks in advance > > McComas Taylor > From ute.huesken at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Thu Mar 17 20:02:00 2011 From: ute.huesken at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Ute Huesken) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 11 21:02:00 +0100 Subject: Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like Message-ID: <161227091892.23782.13533244178819218713.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1561 Lines: 51 Dear colleagues, vi.s.nubali is a prenatal sa.mskAra, performed by the VaikhAnasas in the eigth month of pregnancy (together with sImanta). In the VaikhAnasa literature this is often contasted with the pancasamskAras of pAncarAtrins, which is a dIk.sA and includes as one element the branding of the upper arms with the heated metal symbols of disk and conch. For details see Ute Huesken 2009. Vi.s.nu?s Children. Prenatal life-cycle rituals in South India (Ethno-Indology. Heidelberg Studies in South Asian Rituals 9). Translated from German by Will Sweetman. Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz. ISBN: 978-3-447-05854-4. (with DVD) VaikhAnasas are Brahmins, yet there are a few passages in their sa.mhitAs suggesting that they also conferred an initiation on others. Best Ute Huesken -- Ute Huesken Professor of Sanskrit Department of Culture Studies and Oriental Languages University of Oslo Faculty of Humanities P.O. Box 1010 Blindern N-0315 Oslo Norway Room 387, P.A. Munch's Building phone: +47 22 85 48 16 telefax: +47 22 85 48 28 ute.huesken at ikos.uio.no http://www.hf.uio.no/ikos/personer/vit/uteh/index.html Co-editor, Oxford Ritual Studies Series Steering Committee, Ritual Studies Group, American Academy of Religion Head of the "Kanchipuram Research Project" http://www.hf.uio.no/ikos/english/research/projects/kancipuram/index.html Organizer of the Oslo Buddhist Studies Forum (OBSF) http://www.hf.uio.no/ikos/forskning/nettverk/obsf/ podcasts of the OBSF lectures http://www.hf.uio.no/ikos/forskning/nettverk/obsf/podcast/ From slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU Fri Mar 18 03:18:12 2011 From: slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU (Steven Lindquist) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 11 22:18:12 -0500 Subject: The City in Sanskrit literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091905.23782.10583743984402113175.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1613 Lines: 45 See also: Kaul, Shonaleeka. Imagining the Urban: Sanskrit and the City in Early India, Ranikhet: Permanent Black, 2010. Steven -- Steven Lindquist, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Religious Studies Southern Methodist University Homepage: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui -- On Mar 17, 2011, at 10:10 PM, Frank Conlon wrote: > McComas and Andrew, > > Not a text, but an interesting reading would be A. K. Ramanujan, "Towards an Anthology of City Images" pp. 224-242 in Richard G. Fox, editor, _Urban India: Society, Space and Image_ (Durham, N.C. Duke University Program in Comparative Studies on Southern Asia, 1970) [Monograph and Occasional Papers Series, Monograph 2]--which contrasts treatment of cities in Sanskrit literature with that of Tamil literature. > > Frank > > Frank F. Conlon > Professor Emeritus of History, South Asian > Studies & Comparative Religion > University of Washington > Seattle, WA 98195-3560 USA > Co-editor, H-ASIA > Managing Director, Bibliography of Asian Studies Online > > On Fri, 18 Mar 2011, McComas Taylor wrote: > >> Dear Colleague >> I fine student of mine, Andrew Donnelly, is working on the concept of the >> city in Sanskrit literature. If you come across any references or >> descriptions of cities in your readings, would you be be kind enough to >> forward the references to him at: >> andrewgdonnelly at gmail.com >> With thanks in advance >> McComas Taylor >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Thu Mar 17 17:59:03 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 11 23:29:03 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_New_book_on_=E1=B9=9Ag_Veda?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091890.23782.13237826325461285075.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1510 Lines: 30 I agree with this view. Jurewicz'z is undoubtedly a novel approach Best DB --- On Thu, 17/3/11, Richard Gombrich wrote: From: Richard Gombrich Subject: [INDOLOGY] New book on ?g Veda To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Thursday, 17 March, 2011, 4:23 PM I would like to draw the attention of colleagues to the publication by Joanna Jurewicz,?Fire and Cognition in the ?gveda, ELIPSA, Warsaw 2010. ?ISBN 978-83-7151-893-5 (pbk), 485pp. Her use of cognitive linguistics as a key to unlock the meanings of many Vedic passages hitherto considered obscure is to my mind completely convincing. ?Rarely does it happen that anyone follows a new approach to interpreting an acknowledged masterpiece of world literature, and more rarely still are the results so illuminating that they may rank as a true discovery. The book is not available on Amazon, but it is cheap?http://www.prus24.pl?(this page is in English), put in keywords ?fire & Veda.? Click to put in your basket. ?Then proceed to checkout.? At this stage you will be asked to open an? account.? This is normal for bookshops and is without obligation.? You will receive confirmation by email and then you can click on the link given in this email and proceed to payment page.? Richard Gombrich -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From phmaas at ARCOR.DE Fri Mar 18 08:13:09 2011 From: phmaas at ARCOR.DE (Philipp Maas) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 11 09:13:09 +0100 Subject: The City in Sanskrit literature Message-ID: <161227091912.23782.647485486646892573.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 303 Lines: 12 Dear McComas, see also Schlingloff, Dieter: Die altindische Stadt. Eine vergleichende Untersuchung. Mainz: Verl. der Akad. der Wiss. und der Lit., 1970 (Abhandlungen der Geistes- und Sozialwissenschaftlichen Klasse / Akademie der Wissenschaften und der Literatur, Mainz ; 1969,5). Best, Philipp From lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO Fri Mar 18 09:30:18 2011 From: lmfosse at GETMAIL.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 11 10:30:18 +0100 Subject: The City in Sanskrit literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091917.23782.17399806769524386171.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1662 Lines: 77 Hello Klaus, do you (or anyone else) know if there are any studies of India's oldest fortifications/fortresses/fortified cities (up to ca. 1000 A.D.)? Best regards, Lars Martin From: Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo - Norway Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 E-mail: lmfosse at getmail.no _____ From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Klaus Karttunen Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 10:24 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The City in Sanskrit literature Further Eltsov, Piotr Andreevich: From Harappa to Hastinapura. A Study of the Earliest South Asian City and Civilization. Boston & Leiden: Brill 2008. XXXI, 240 S. 4? American School of Prehistoric Research Monograph Series. ISBN 978-90-04-16060-6. Best, Klaus Karttunen Professor of South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674 Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094 Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi On Mar 18, 2011, at 10:13 AM, Philipp Maas wrote: Dear McComas, see also Schlingloff, Dieter: Die altindische Stadt. Eine vergleichende Untersuchung. Mainz: Verl. der Akad. der Wiss. und der Lit., 1970 (Abhandlungen der Geistes- und Sozialwissenschaftlichen Klasse / Akademie der Wissenschaften und der Literatur, Mainz ; 1969,5). Best, Philipp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Fri Mar 18 05:28:18 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 11 10:58:18 +0530 Subject: The City in Sanskrit literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091909.23782.11677974317152188368.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1112 Lines: 36 Dear Dr. Taylor, Had we some exchanges on some related topic before? I do not know if I told you that there is an extensive study by me of the rise and decline of the early historical cities, particularly of Hastinapura. The problem is that the study is in Bengali. If your student read Bengali, I could send a copy to him. Best D.Bhattacharya --- On Fri, 18/3/11, McComas Taylor wrote: From: McComas Taylor Subject: [INDOLOGY] The City in Sanskrit literature To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Friday, 18 March, 2011, 2:57 AM Dear Colleague I fine student of mine, Andrew Donnelly, is working on the concept of the city in Sanskrit literature. If you come across any references or descriptions of cities in your readings, would you be be kind enough to forward the references to him at: andrewgdonnelly at gmail.com With thanks in advance McComas Taylor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI Fri Mar 18 09:24:20 2011 From: klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI (Klaus Karttunen) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 11 11:24:20 +0200 Subject: The City in Sanskrit literature In-Reply-To: <584244391.143876.1300435989167.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail09.arcor-online.net> Message-ID: <161227091914.23782.1018185201723133507.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1076 Lines: 36 Further Eltsov, Piotr Andreevich: From Harappa to Hastinapura. A Study of the Earliest South Asian City and Civilization. Boston & Leiden: Brill 2008. XXXI, 240 S. 4? American School of Prehistoric Research Monograph Series. ISBN 978-90-04-16060-6. Best, Klaus Karttunen Professor of South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674 Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094 Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi On Mar 18, 2011, at 10:13 AM, Philipp Maas wrote: > Dear McComas, > > see also > > Schlingloff, Dieter: Die altindische Stadt. Eine vergleichende Untersuchung. Mainz: Verl. der Akad. der Wiss. und der Lit., 1970 (Abhandlungen der Geistes- und Sozialwissenschaftlichen Klasse / Akademie der Wissenschaften und der Literatur, Mainz ; 1969,5). > > Best, > > Philipp > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steiner at MAILER.UNI-MARBURG.DE Fri Mar 18 11:24:55 2011 From: steiner at MAILER.UNI-MARBURG.DE (Roland Steiner) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 11 12:24:55 +0100 Subject: The City in Sanskrit literature In-Reply-To: <584244391.143876.1300435989167.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail09.arcor-online.net> Message-ID: <161227091924.23782.5605855820437707152.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 575 Lines: 23 See also Vogel, Claus: "Indische Hauptst?dte im Spiegel alter Reiseberichte", in: Suh?llekh??. Festgabe f?r Helmut Eimer. Herausgegeben von Michael Hahn, Jens-Uwe Hartmann und Roland Steiner. Swisttal-Odendorf: Indica et Tibetica 1996 (Indica et Tibetica. 28), pp. 249-261. Best, Roland Steiner -- Dr. Roland Steiner Martin-Luther-Universit?t Halle-Wittenberg Seminar f?r Indologie Emil-Abderhalden-Str. 9 D-06099 Halle (Saale) Tel.: +49-345-55-23656 Fax.: +49-345-55-27211 URL: http://www.indologie.uni-halle.de/ E-Mail: roland.steiner at indologie.uni-halle.de From McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Fri Mar 18 02:57:32 2011 From: McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 11 13:57:32 +1100 Subject: The City in Sanskrit literature Message-ID: <161227091901.23782.4646262268401699989.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 508 Lines: 15 Dear Colleague I fine student of mine, Andrew Donnelly, is working on the concept of the city in Sanskrit literature. If you come across any references or descriptions of cities in your readings, would you be be kind enough to forward the references to him at: andrewgdonnelly at gmail.com With thanks in advance McComas Taylor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at UW.EDU.PL Fri Mar 18 13:10:23 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 11 14:10:23 +0100 Subject: The City in Sanskrit literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091927.23782.6758350211287157931.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 562 Lines: 27 See also (hot off the printing press): Danuta Stasik, Anna Trynkowska (eds), The City and the Forest in Indian Literature and Art, Dom Wydawniczy Elipsa, Warsaw 2010, ISBN 978-83-7151-914-7 Materials from 2008 International Seminar 'The City and the Forest in Classical Indian Literature' (organized by the Department of South Asian Studies, Faculty of Oriental Studies, University Warsaw. On The City - authors: Joanna Jurewicz Alexander Dubyanskiy Tiziana Pontillo Katarzyna Pa?ucha Cezary Galewicz Lidia Sudyka Cinzia Pieruzzini Regards, Artur Karp From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Fri Mar 18 10:49:34 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 11 16:19:34 +0530 Subject: The City in Sanskrit literature In-Reply-To: <228A9BED6B8C4B7FA0C5F914FB62DF10@Winston> Message-ID: <161227091921.23782.2417349988603257277.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2374 Lines: 118 The following seems to have escaped the notice of any correspondent THE CITY IN EARLY HISTORICAL INDIA A.GHOSH IIAS, Simla 1973 One word of caution for those who are not acquainted with the views of the archaeologist:? he has completely changed his earlier stance regarding the origin of many elements of the city as expressed in 1955. Best DB --- On Fri, 18/3/11, Lars Martin Fosse wrote: From: Lars Martin Fosse Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The City in Sanskrit literature To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Friday, 18 March, 2011, 9:30 AM Hello Klaus, ? do you (or anyone else) know if there are any studies of India's oldest fortifications/fortresses/fortified cities (up to ca. 1000 A.D.)? ? Best regards, ? Lars Martin ? From: Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo - Norway Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax:? +47 850 21 250 Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 E-mail: lmfosse at getmail.no ? From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Klaus Karttunen Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 10:24 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The City in Sanskrit literature Further Eltsov, Piotr Andreevich: From Harappa to Hastinapura. A Study of the Earliest South Asian City and Civilization. Boston & Leiden: Brill 2008. XXXI, 240 S. 4? American School of Prehistoric Research Monograph Series. ISBN 978-90-04-16060-6.? Best,? Klaus Karttunen Professor of South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674 Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094 Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi On Mar 18, 2011, at 10:13 AM, Philipp Maas wrote: Dear McComas, see also Schlingloff, Dieter: Die altindische Stadt. Eine vergleichende Untersuchung. Mainz: Verl. der Akad. der Wiss. und der Lit., 1970 (Abhandlungen der Geistes- und Sozialwissenschaftlichen Klasse / Akademie der Wissenschaften und der Literatur, Mainz ; 1969,5). Best, Philipp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Sun Mar 20 04:02:04 2011 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 11 09:32:04 +0530 Subject: recaka, p=?utf-8?Q?=C5=ABraka,?= kumbhaka Message-ID: <161227091929.23782.734399489658544171.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 665 Lines: 19 Dear list, I hope you won't mind a another terminological discussion related to yoga ! Is it known when the terminology of recaka, p?raka/p?ra?a, kumbhaka first started to be used for pr???y?ma ? It seems that the Yogas?tra (2.49) and Yogabh??ya speak rather of ?v?sa and pra?v?sa (in 2.49). In the tradition of commentaries on the s?tras perhaps it is the Yogabh??yavivara?a which first uses the recaka-p?raka-kumbhaka terminology ? Kau??inya?s Pa?c?rthabh??ya (on P??upata 1.16) refers to recaka and p?ra?a. Are there other attestations likely to be earlier than the Yogabh??yavivara?a ? Dominic Goodall ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient, Pondicherry From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Sun Mar 20 15:35:19 2011 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 11 11:35:19 -0400 Subject: Sanskrit Summer School @ Harvard Message-ID: <161227091931.23782.1950258332019750230.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 912 Lines: 35 With apologies for cross-posting: -------------------------------------------------- This Summer, just as over the past 20 years, we will offer a course of Introductory Sanskrit, from June 27?August 12. See: For more details see: (search for: Sanskrit) For any further questions please contact me at: Michael Witzel MW > ============ > Michael Witzel > witzel at fas.harvard.edu > > > Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University > 1 Bow Street, > Cambridge MA 02138, USA > > phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; > my direct line: 617- 496 2990 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Mon Mar 21 19:23:48 2011 From: kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Birgit Kellner) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 11 20:23:48 +0100 Subject: Call for papers: Oriental Studies, Salamanca, 28-30 September 2011 Message-ID: <161227091934.23782.15218122940974276298.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1213 Lines: 38 Dear colleagues, this call for papers by Ana Agud from the University of Salamanca may be of interest to Indologists. With best regards, Birgit Kellner -------- Original-Nachricht -------- Datum: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 20:04:12 +0100 Von: anaagud at usal.es Dear colleagues! At the University of Salamanca we have decided to commemorate with an International Conference of Orientalists the fact that 700 years ago Pope Clemens II urged through a "canon" the universities of Salamanca, Bologna, Paris and Oxford to teach oriental languages, thus giving the first impulse to Oriental Studies in Europe. The conference will take place at Salamanca the 28th-30th September 2011. We attach You our "Call for papers", and we would greatly appreciate You to communicate this event to other colleagues of Indian Studies. Best wishes Ana Agud Universidad de Salamanca -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Callforpapersingl?s.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 14250 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Mon Mar 21 19:28:55 2011 From: kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Birgit Kellner) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 11 20:28:55 +0100 Subject: Fwd: POSITION Sanskrit preceptor, Harvard University Message-ID: <161227091938.23782.4044824182496460968.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1726 Lines: 43 Dear colleagues (apologies for cross-posting), Find attached an advertisement for the position as Sanskrit preceptor, Department of Sanskrit and Indian Studies, Harvard University. Copy of text in case the attachment doesn't come through: POSITION AVAILABLE PRECEPTOR: Sanskrit START DATE: FALL TERM, 2011 The Department of Sanskrit and Indian Studies, Harvard University, seeks applications for a preceptor in Sanskrit, to begin July 1, 2011. This one-year position is renewable on a yearly basis up to a maximum of eight years, contingent on performance and curricular need. Duties will include language and literature instruction and course development at all levels. The position is full time with teaching duties of five courses per year. Candidates should have experience in teaching all levels of Sanskrit. A strong doctoral record in any field of Sanskrit literature by the time of appointment is preferred. Applications, including a letter of interest, a curriculum vitae, three letters of recommendation, and a publication or writing sample should be sent before April 22 to Parimal G. Patil, Chair of the Sanskrit Search Committee, Harvard University, Barker Center 409, 12 Quincy Street, Cambridge, MA 02138. Harvard University is an affirmative action/equal opportunity employer. Women and minority scholars are encouraged to apply. ---------------------------------------- Best regards, Birgit Kellner -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: HarvardSanskritPreceptorJobAdvertisement.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 49492 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jim at KHECARI.COM Tue Mar 22 10:16:26 2011 From: jim at KHECARI.COM (James Mallinson) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 11 10:16:26 +0000 Subject: recaka, p=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=95uuraka?= , kum bhaka In-Reply-To: <14AC5568-3B88-4E31-B16C-1B6D9BDBD13B@GMAIL.COM> Message-ID: <161227091947.23782.17491288567259151875.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4793 Lines: 121 Dear Dominic, I think your hypothesis is strong. The one text I thought of that might weaken it is the Vaikh?nasasm?rtas?tra. I have only Caland's translation with me, not the Sanskrit text, from which it would appear that, in the few references to breath retention, recaka/p?raka/ kumbhaka are not used. (By the way, the Yogay?j?avalkya mentioned by Christophe is not very old - 13th century or later. It borrows many verses from the Vasi??hasa?it?, which itself is derivative of P??car?tra Sa?hit?s such as the Ahirbudhnya and P?dma.) In later ha?hayogic works there is a confluence of three types of (or theories behind) breath retention: (1) the ancient (and not specifically yogic) tradition of regulated breathing or pr???y?ma which is thought to get rid of karma and physical impurity; (2) a yogic principle that links the breath, the mind and semen - by stopping one, the others are also stopped; (3) specific methods of inhalation and exhalation known as kumbhakas (somewhat paradoxically since kumbhaka of course means the holding of the breath) which have various effects on the subtle body. The latter are first found in the c.13th century Gorak?a?ataka (a different text from the one better known by that name but which was originally called the Vivekam?rta??a). They include techniques such as ujj?y?, in which a rasping noise is made during inhalation, and bhastrik?, in which the yogin is to breathe in and out rapidly, like a pair of bellows. The terms recaka/p?raka/kumbhaka are used for all three types. To hijack your question, Dominic, I wonder if you or anyone else might have an answer to a question I have been pondering recently. Why do all the ha?hayogic kumbhakas have feminine names when kumbhaka is itself masculine? What might be their referent? Yours, with best wishes, Jim On 22 Mar 2011, at 09:02, Dominic Goodall wrote: > Many thanks, Christophe, for these references. > > What I was hoping for was something closer in date to Kau.n.dinya?s > Pa~ncaarthabhaa.sya (C4th?C6th??), which I imagine to be > considerably earlier than the Yogabhaa.syavivara.na (C7th?9th??), > and earlier than the passages you quote. I was wondering whether > anybody might be aware of evidence that would weaken or strengthen > the hypothesis that the recaka-puura.na-kumbhaka terminology comes > from a Shaiva tradition of yoga. After Kau.n.dinya, the next > passage in which the terminology occurs, it seems to me, may be > chapter 4 of the Nayasuutra of the Ni"svaasatattvasa.mhitaa (C6th?), > and there kumbhaka has joined recaka and puura.na. > > Yours, > Dominic > > On 21-Mar-2011, at 3:37 PM, Christophe Vielle wrote: > >> Dear Dominic, >> >> I do not have any idea of the relative date ascribed to the Yoga- >> yaaj?a-valkya where the terms are used (6.24-25), but there is also >> the BhaagavataPuraa.na 3.28.9, >> and also the Ii/svaragiitaa of the KuurmaPuraa.na (XI.36 transl. >> Dumont 1933: 142-3): >> recaka.h puuraka/s caiva praa.naayaamo 'tha kumbhaka.h / >> procyate sarva/saastre.su yogibhir yatamaanasai.h // >> (nothing seen in the paa/supatayoga of the VaaP 10.73 sq. // MaarkP >> ch. 39 Bibl. Ind., mainly on maatraas in the praa.naayaama) >> See also the later Ii/saana/sivagurudevapaddhati (IV - Yogapaada, >> pa.tala 2, v. 42 sq. = TSS vol. 4 p. 625), >> and the JaiSa (unpublished) adh. 51 (or 52) v. 35: >> recapuurakakumbhaadinyaayenaabhyasata.h /sanai.h / >> a/se.sapaapak.sayak.rt praa.naayaamo dinedine // >> >> Best, >> Christophe >> >>> Dear list, >>> >>> I hope you won't mind a another terminological discussion related >>> to yoga ! >>> >>> Is it known when the terminology of recaka, p?raka/p?ra?a, >>> kumbhaka first started to be used for pr???y?ma ? >>> >>> It seems that the Yogas?tra (2.49) and Yogabh??ya speak rather >>> of ?v?sa and pra?v?sa (in 2.49). >>> >>> In the tradition of commentaries on the s?tras perhaps it is the >>> Yogabh??yavivara?a which first uses the recaka-p?raka-kumbhaka >>> terminology ? >>> >>> Kau??inya's Pa?c?rthabh??ya (on P??upata 1.16) refers to >>> recaka and p?ra?a. Are there other attestations likely to be >>> earlier than the Yogabh??yavivara?a ? >>> >>> >>> Dominic Goodall >>> ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient, >>> Pondicherry >> >> >> -- >> http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle >> http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ >> http://www.uclouvain.be/356389.html >> >> -- >> Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of >> storage free. >> http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jacob at FABULARASA.DK Tue Mar 22 09:24:58 2011 From: jacob at FABULARASA.DK (Jaob Schmidt-Madsen) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 11 10:24:58 +0100 Subject: The Florence Fragments In-Reply-To: <14AC5568-3B88-4E31-B16C-1B6D9BDBD13B@GMAIL.COM> Message-ID: <161227091945.23782.14855186445521209797.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2283 Lines: 55 Dear all This is my first posting on the list. I am student of Indology under Associate Professor and Head of Department Kenneth Zysk at the University of Copenhagen. I am currently working on an unpublished medical palm-leaf manuscript discovered in a collection of papyri at the Istituto Papirologico ?G.Vitelli? in Florence, Italy. The manuscript was apparently bought from the (in)famous Egyptian antiques dealer Maurice Nahman (1868-1948) sometime in the first half of the 20th century together with a batch of papyri. How the manuscript ended up with the papyri in his shop in Cairo, is one of the mysteries that initially attracted me to the project. The six leaves of the manuscript is written in Sanskrit with the Mishra variant of the Sinhala script used primarily for writing foreign languages in Sri Lanka. The text itself is mostly a creative sampling of quotations from classical medical texts with the main focus being on Caraka Samhita 1.27 (on food and drink), Sushruta Samhita 1.45 and Astanga Sangraha 1.6 (both on liquid substances). The quotations are bundled together under frequent headings, such as "eight kinds of water", "dried meat", and "good effects of Gangetic (rain) water". Certain headings, or short notes, also seem to show non-Sanskrit - possibly Sinhalese - influence (e.g. "kemulbubuluvuvupun"). So far I have not been able to establish whether the manuscript is unique, or a copy of an existing text, but I would be very interested to know your ideas on what the origins of this oddly misplaced manuscript might actually be. I have set up a project site containing a complete transliteration, translation, and index of the manuscript (click "Florence" in the top menu), together with a gallery displaying the six leaves recto and verso (click "Gallery" in the top menu): http://florencefragments.wordpress.com/ For ease of reference I have listed all the quotations identified on the same page (which also links to the translations of the different leaves): http://florencefragments.wordpress.com/florence/translation/ I hope some of you will find the time to browse by the site and let me know if anything potentially interesting comes to mind. Regards, Jacob Jacob Schmidt-Madsen Department of Indology University of Copenhagen From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Tue Mar 22 10:53:46 2011 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 11 11:53:46 +0100 Subject: Fwd: "Programme Journ=?iso-8859-15?Q?=E9e?= Monde Indien (25-3-2011, Pa ris) Message-ID: <161227091950.23782.9424894505945093940.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3039 Lines: 106 > >Chers coll?gues, > >Je vous envoie le programme de la VI?me "Journ?e >Monde Indien" de l'?quipe de recherche "Mondes >Iranien et Indien" qui se tiendra vendredi >prochain 25 mars ? Paris au MNHN, entre 10h et >18h. > > >Bien cordialement, > >Nicolas Dejenne >Ma?tre de conf?rences ? l'Universit? Sorbonne Nouvelle-Paris 3 >Responsable de l'organisation de la VI?me "Journ?e Monde Indien" > >VIe Journ?e Monde indien, Mus?um National d'Histoire Naturelle (25 mars) > >L'?quipe de recherche Mondes iranien et indien >(Unit? mixte de recherche 7528 du CNRS, de la >Sorbonne Nouvelle - Paris 3, de l'EPHE et de >l'INaLCO) a le plaisir de vous inviter ? la >sixi?me Journ?e Monde Indien, le vendredi 25 >mars 2011. > >La VI?me Journ?e Monde indien se tiendra ? >l'Auditorium de la Grande Galerie de l'?volution >du Mus?um National d'Histoire Naturelle, Jardin >des Plantes >36, rue Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire, 75005 Paris >M?tro : Gare d'Austerlitz ou Censier Daubenton >Bus : 67, 89 > >Programme > >Matin >10h00 Accueil > >10h15 >Pollet SAMVELIAN (Sorbonne Nouvelle - Paris 3 / >CNRS - Mondes iranien et indien) >Pr?sentation des activit?s de recherche de >l'?quipe Mondes iranien et indien en 2010 > >10h30 >Georges-Jean PINAULT (EPHE / Sorbonne Nouvelle - >Paris 3 - Mondes iranien et indien) >Sur l'hymne v?dique dialogu? de Yama et Yam? (RV X. 10) > >11h00 >Gopabandhu MISHRA (Sorbonne Nouvelle - Paris 3 / Banaras Hindu University) >Aspects of P?.ninian System of Grammar: Ved?nga and Ved?nta > >11h30 >Karine LADRECH (Universit? Sorbonne - Paris 4 / CREOPS) >Sites ja?ns du Tamilnadu : pr?sentation d'un projet en cours > >12h15 D?jeuner libre > >Apr?s-midi >14h00 >Annette SCHMIEDCHEN (Universit? Humboldt, Berlin >/ Universit? Martin-Luther, Halle) >Kings, Composers and Scribes - The writing of >Sanskrit copper-plate inscriptions in Western >and Central India from the 6th to the 10th >centuries A.D. > >14h30 >Anne-Julie ETTER (Doctorante, Universit? Paris-Diderot Paris 7) >La port?e administrative de l'?tude des >inscriptions en Inde au d?but de la p?riode >coloniale > >15h00 >Harit JOSHI (INaLCO) >Chronique d'un assassinat dans l'Inde moghole : >variantes narratives ou interpr?tations >tendancieuses ? > >15h30 Pause caf? > >16h00 >Sandrine GILL (CREOPS, Projet de recherche sur Sanghol) >Le site bouddhique de Sanghol au Penjab : ?tat des recherches > >16h30 >Dani?le MASSET (INaLCO - Mondes iranien et indien) >La Voie du Milieu et l'exp?rience des limites : >les pratiques asc?tiques dans les Stances des >Thera > >17h00 >Judit T?RZS?K (Universit? Charles-de-Gaulle - >Lille 3 - Mondes iranien et indien) >Quelques remarques sur les ? porteurs de cr?ne ? (k?p?lika) en Inde classique > >http://www.iran-inde.cnrs.fr/spip.php?article16 > -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From baums at BERKELEY.EDU Tue Mar 22 20:18:47 2011 From: baums at BERKELEY.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 11 13:18:47 -0700 Subject: The Florence Fragments In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F16830003CF@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227091963.23782.13082472767696649739.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 778 Lines: 24 Dear Allen, when talking about the Sinhala script, the term mi?ra usually refers to a grapheme set rather than a script style. The mi?ra set includes a range of consonants for writing Sanskrit and Pali loanwords (i.e., what we might otherwise think of as a complete var?am?l?) and, secondarily, English etc. loanwords. In this usage, mi?ra contrasts with ?uddha: the core set of Sinhalese graphemes needed for the writing of E?u (tadbhava Sinhala) words. Since Jacob?s manuscript is written in Sanskrit, it would have to use the full (mi?ra) consonant inventory. I do not think (but may be wrong) that the mi?ra inventory typically correlates with a distinct script style. All best, Stefan -- Dr. Stefan Baums Group in Buddhist Studies University of California, Berkeley From iran_farkhondeh at YAHOO.FR Tue Mar 22 13:29:12 2011 From: iran_farkhondeh at YAHOO.FR (farkhondeh iran) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 11 13:29:12 +0000 Subject: International Indology Graduate Research Symposium 3 in Paris Message-ID: <161227091953.23782.1160035338488006234.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1526 Lines: 28 Dear list members, The third International Indology Graduate Research Symposium (IIGRS) will be held at Paris, University of Sorbonne Nouvelle, on the 29th-30th September 2011 ? please find all the information at http://iigrs.byethost17.com . The symposium is aimed at current graduate students, PhD candidates as well as early stage researchers, that is to say those who have completed their last degree within the past five years. The deadline for submitting abstracts is the 1st of June 2011. The proceedings of the symposium will be published. If you are teaching at an institution, I would be extremely grateful if you could please circulate this information. Kind regards, Iran Farkhondeh, ? on behalf of IIGRS Team: ? Iris Iran Farkhondeh - Committee Chairperson, editor of proceedings. PhD. Candidate, Women?s characters and status in Sanskrit texts. University of Sorbonne Nouvelle-Paris 3, UMR Mondes iranien et indien ? J?r?me Petit - Committee Member, editor of proceedings. PhD. Candidate, Jain texts. University of Sorbonne Nouvelle-Paris 3, UMR Mondes iranien et indien Librarian, National Library of France (BnF). ? Jessie Pons - Committee Member, editor of proceedings. PhD. Candidate, Buddhist Art of Gandhara. University of Paris Sorbonne-Paris 4, CREOPS and AOROCResearch Assistant, CERES, Ruhr-Universit?t, Bochum -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Tue Mar 22 09:02:07 2011 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 11 14:32:07 +0530 Subject: recaka, p=?iso-8859-1?Q?=95uuraka?= , kum bhaka In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091942.23782.14867612271137734043.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2734 Lines: 57 Many thanks, Christophe, for these references. What I was hoping for was something closer in date to Kau.n.dinya?s Pa~ncaarthabhaa.sya (C4th?C6th??), which I imagine to be considerably earlier than the Yogabhaa.syavivara.na (C7th?9th??), and earlier than the passages you quote. I was wondering whether anybody might be aware of evidence that would weaken or strengthen the hypothesis that the recaka-puura.na-kumbhaka terminology comes from a Shaiva tradition of yoga. After Kau.n.dinya, the next passage in which the terminology occurs, it seems to me, may be chapter 4 of the Nayasuutra of the Ni"svaasatattvasa.mhitaa (C6th?), and there kumbhaka has joined recaka and puura.na. Yours, Dominic On 21-Mar-2011, at 3:37 PM, Christophe Vielle wrote: > Dear Dominic, > > I do not have any idea of the relative date ascribed to the Yoga-yaaj?a-valkya where the terms are used (6.24-25), but there is also the BhaagavataPuraa.na 3.28.9, > and also the Ii/svaragiitaa of the KuurmaPuraa.na (XI.36 transl. Dumont 1933: 142-3): > recaka.h puuraka/s caiva praa.naayaamo 'tha kumbhaka.h / > procyate sarva/saastre.su yogibhir yatamaanasai.h // > (nothing seen in the paa/supatayoga of the VaaP 10.73 sq. // MaarkP ch. 39 Bibl. Ind., mainly on maatraas in the praa.naayaama) > See also the later Ii/saana/sivagurudevapaddhati (IV - Yogapaada, pa.tala 2, v. 42 sq. = TSS vol. 4 p. 625), > and the JaiSa (unpublished) adh. 51 (or 52) v. 35: > recapuurakakumbhaadinyaayenaabhyasata.h /sanai.h / > a/se.sapaapak.sayak.rt praa.naayaamo dinedine // > > Best, > Christophe > >> Dear list, >> >> I hope you won't mind a another terminological discussion related to yoga ! >> >> Is it known when the terminology of recaka, p?raka/p?ra?a, kumbhaka first started to be used for pr???y?ma ? >> >> It seems that the Yogas?tra (2.49) and Yogabh??ya speak rather of ?v?sa and pra?v?sa (in 2.49). >> >> In the tradition of commentaries on the s?tras perhaps it is the Yogabh??yavivara?a which first uses the recaka-p?raka-kumbhaka terminology ? >> >> Kau??inya's Pa?c?rthabh??ya (on P??upata 1.16) refers to recaka and p?ra?a. Are there other attestations likely to be earlier than the Yogabh??yavivara?a ? >> >> >> Dominic Goodall >> ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient, >> Pondicherry > > > -- > http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle > http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ > http://www.uclouvain.be/356389.html > > -- > Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of > storage free. > http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Mar 22 19:44:45 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 11 15:44:45 -0400 Subject: The Florence Fragments In-Reply-To: <91c4290f77ddc5ea8cd201210871c1c7.squirrel@squirrelmail.gigahost.dk> Message-ID: <161227091958.23782.12847461075721762601.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 519 Lines: 19 Jacob, I have not heard of the Mishra version of the Simhala script. Where is it discussed and tables of characters displayed? it might come in useful in identifying the Library of Congress's Simhala mss one of these days. Allen Thrasher Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From pcbisschop at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Tue Mar 22 15:30:21 2011 From: pcbisschop at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (peter bisschop) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 11 16:30:21 +0100 Subject: recaka, p=?windows-1252?Q?=95uuraka?= , kum bhaka In-Reply-To: <14AC5568-3B88-4E31-B16C-1B6D9BDBD13B@GMAIL.COM> Message-ID: <161227091955.23782.6357669083071006136.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3619 Lines: 102 Dear Dominic, An early attestation for the terms in the context of praa.naayaama is the Nyaayaagamaanusaari.nii of Si.mhasuuri (C6th?), the commentary on the Dvaada"saaranayacakra of Mallavaadin. The terms occur in an important passage on .Sa.da"ngayoga, clearly referring to a "Saiva tradition of yoga, thus confirming your hypothesis. The passage (p.332, ll. 18--20, edition Jambuuvijayajii) reads as follows: praa.naayaamas trividha.h -- recaka.h kumbhaka.h puuraka iti| tatra recaka aantara.m vaayu.m bahir ni.skraa"sayati naasikaadvaare.na| puuraka.h baahyam anta.h prave"sya puurayati| kumbhaka.h puur.nakumbhavad aspanda.m vaayu.m saamiipyenaavasthaapayati| I don't know of an earlier source for these terms than Kau.n.dinya's work. Best wishes, Peter On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 10:02 AM, Dominic Goodall wrote: > Many thanks, Christophe, for these references. > > What I was hoping for was something closer in date to Kau.n.dinya?s > Pa~ncaarthabhaa.sya (C4th?C6th??), which I imagine to be considerably > earlier than the Yogabhaa.syavivara.na (C7th?9th??), and earlier than the > passages you quote. I was wondering whether anybody might be aware of > evidence that would weaken or strengthen the hypothesis that the > recaka-puura.na-kumbhaka terminology comes from a Shaiva tradition of yoga. > After Kau.n.dinya, the next passage in which the terminology occurs, it > seems to me, may be chapter 4 of the Nayasuutra of the > Ni"svaasatattvasa.mhitaa (C6th?), and there kumbhaka has joined recaka and > puura.na. > > Yours, > Dominic > > On 21-Mar-2011, at 3:37 PM, Christophe Vielle wrote: > > Dear Dominic, > > I do not have any idea of the relative date ascribed to the > Yoga-yaaj?a-valkya where the terms are used (6.24-25), but there is also the > BhaagavataPuraa.na 3.28.9, > and also the Ii/svaragiitaa of the KuurmaPuraa.na (XI.36 transl. Dumont > 1933: 142-3): > recaka.h puuraka/s caiva praa.naayaamo 'tha kumbhaka.h / > procyate sarva/saastre.su yogibhir yatamaanasai.h // > (nothing seen in the paa/supatayoga of the VaaP 10.73 sq. // MaarkP ch. 39 > Bibl. Ind., mainly on maatraas in the praa.naayaama) > See also the later Ii/saana/sivagurudevapaddhati (IV - Yogapaada, pa.tala > 2, v. 42 sq. = TSS vol. 4 p. 625), > and the JaiSa (unpublished) adh. 51 (or 52) v. 35: > recapuurakakumbhaadinyaayenaabhyasata.h /sanai.h / > a/se.sapaapak.sayak.rt praa.naayaamo dinedine // > > Best, > Christophe > > Dear list, > > I hope you won't mind a another terminological discussion related to yoga ! > > Is it known when the terminology of recaka, p?raka/p?ra?a, kumbhaka first > started to be used for pr???y?ma ? > > It seems that the Yogas?tra (2.49) and Yogabh??ya speak rather of ?v?sa and > pra?v?sa (in 2.49). > > In the tradition of commentaries on the s?tras perhaps it is the > Yogabh??yavivara?a which first uses the recaka-p?raka-kumbhaka terminology ? > > Kau??inya's Pa?c?rthabh??ya (on P??upata 1.16) refers to recaka and p?ra?a. > Are there other attestations likely to be earlier than the > Yogabh??yavivara?a ? > > > Dominic Goodall > ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient, > Pondicherry > > > > -- > > http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle > http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ > http://www.uclouvain.be/356389.html > > -- > Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of > storage free. > http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jacob at FABULARASA.DK Tue Mar 22 20:14:09 2011 From: jacob at FABULARASA.DK (Jaob Schmidt-Madsen) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 11 21:14:09 +0100 Subject: The Florence Fragments In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F16830003CF@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227091961.23782.16590380034303598817.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1073 Lines: 38 Hi Allen You can find the Sinhala script (including the Mishra characters) in several places around the net, e.g. omniglot.com and ancientscripts.com. Personally, I have found the guide "The Sinhala Writing System: A Guide to Transliteration" by James W. Gair and W. S. Karunatillake most helpful as it gives both the typed and the most common manuscript variants of the characters. You can find it online here: http://web.mac.com/gunapala/iWeb/Sinhamedia/Homepage_files/Sinhala%20Transliteration_1.pdf /jacob > Jacob, > > I have not heard of the Mishra version of the Simhala script. Where is it > discussed and tables of characters displayed? it might come in useful in > identifying the Library of Congress's Simhala mss one of these days. > > Allen Thrasher > > Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. > Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator > South Asia Team > Asian Division > Library of Congress > Washington, DC 20540-4810 > USA > tel. 202-707-3732 > fax 202-707-1724 > The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of > Congress. > > From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Wed Mar 23 09:48:30 2011 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 11 04:48:30 -0500 Subject: publication announcement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091965.23782.15026123767280689207.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 553 Lines: 17 Some may be interested in this book just out: Sheldon Pollock, ed. _Forms of Knowledge in Early Modern Asia: Explorations in the Intellectual History of India and Tibet, 1500-1800. (Duke University Press), with 13 articles by diverse hands: http://www.dukeupress.edu/Catalog/ViewProduct.php?productid=14715&viewby=author&lastname=Pollock&firstname=Sheldon&middlename=&sort=newest Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Mar 23 10:18:17 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 11 11:18:17 +0100 Subject: Fwd: Rajiv Malhotra and the Infinity Foundation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091968.23782.16976449889954510713.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 478 Lines: 11 Just in case there's anyone here who has managed thus far without being aware of the views of Rajiv Malhotra, founder of the Infinity Foundation, here is a recent statement: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rajiv-malhotra/how-europeans-misappropri_b_837376.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpeterso at UNI-OSNABRUECK.DE Thu Mar 24 17:00:14 2011 From: jpeterso at UNI-OSNABRUECK.DE (John Peterson) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 11 18:00:14 +0100 Subject: Publication Announcement In-Reply-To: <66E9D213F1E9476CA7C9BD96D98681BE@SlajePC> Message-ID: <161227091974.23782.15184059653020725956.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1518 Lines: 48 Dear list memebers, I am proud to announce the following recent publication which may be of interest to some members of this list: A Grammar of Kharia A South Munda Language John Peterson Publication year: 2011 ISBN: 978 90 04 18720 7 Cover: Hardback Number of pages: xxiv, 474 pp. List price: ? 152.00 / US$ 216.00 Series: Brill's Studies in South and Southwest Asian Languages, 1 Kharia, spoken in central-eastern India, is a member of the southern branch of the Munda family, which forms the western branch of the Austro-Asiatic phylum, stretching from central India to Vietnam. The present study provides the most extensive description of Kharia to date and covers all major areas of the grammar. Of particular interest in the variety of Kharia described here is that there is no evidence for assuming the existence of parts-of-speech such as noun, adjective and verb. Rather functions such as reference, modification and predication are expressed by one of two syntactic structures, referred to here as ?syntagmas?. The volume will be of equal interest to general linguists from the fields of typology, linguistic theory, areal linguistics, Munda linguistics as well as South Asianists in general. -- "Neurolinguists beware! The bilingual is not two monolinguals in one person." Fran?ois Grosjean (1989) John Peterson Institut f?r Linguistik Universit?t Leipzig Beethovenstra?e 15 D-04107 Leipzig Germany Phone: (+49) (0)341 97-37643 Fax: (+49) (0)341 97-37609 http://www.SouthAsiaBibliography.de/ From McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Thu Mar 24 07:01:55 2011 From: McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 11 18:01:55 +1100 Subject: Fwd: Rajiv Malhotra and the Infinity Foundation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091971.23782.16799407286834609470.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 914 Lines: 26 Colleagues might be interested to read a draft of my paper on Malhotra in 'Mythology Wars' at: http://asianstudies.anu.edu.au/wiki/images/d/d0/Mythology_wars.pdf It will appear in the June 2011 edition of the Asian Studies Review McC ----- Original Message ----- From: Dominik Wujastyk Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:18 pm Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Rajiv Malhotra and the Infinity Foundation To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Just in case there's anyone here who has managed thus far without being aware of the views of Rajiv Malhotra, founder of the Infinity Foundation, here is a recent statement: > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rajiv-malhotra/how-europeans-misappropri_b_837376.html > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jkirk at SPRO.NET Fri Mar 25 03:43:12 2011 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 11 21:43:12 -0600 Subject: FW: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Rajiv Malhotra and the Infinity Foundation Message-ID: <161227091976.23782.11396745559004166737.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1297 Lines: 55 "vegetarian samosas would be served after the march.1" How nice of them-----------we never get anything like that when we march :) It's strictly BYOB. Joanna K. ________________________________ From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of McComas Taylor Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 1:02 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Rajiv Malhotra and the Infinity Foundation Colleagues might be interested to read a draft of my paper on Malhotra in 'Mythology Wars' at: http://asianstudies.anu.edu.au/wiki/images/d/d0/Mythology_wars.pd f It will appear in the June 2011 edition of the Asian Studies Review McC ----- Original Message ----- From: Dominik Wujastyk Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:18 pm Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Rajiv Malhotra and the Infinity Foundation To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Just in case there's anyone here who has managed thus far without being aware of the views of Rajiv Malhotra, founder of the Infinity Foundation , here is a recent statement: > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rajiv-malhotra/how-europeans-misapp ropri_b_837376.html > > > From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Fri Mar 25 21:14:28 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 11 17:14:28 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Rajiv Malhotra and the Infinity Foundation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091978.23782.3805362716131198719.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2389 Lines: 64 Dear McComas, This is an interesting paper. Thank you. Yes, this is obviously an issue that we all, as Indologists, need to confront. But, since I am not much interested in these mythology wars between Wendy's children and Rajiv's children, and since I am no one's child, maybe I can present a different point of view here, an orphan's view, as it were. I am a Vedicist. When I teach Vedic, I don't teach it as an outsider, i.e., as about them. I teach it as an insider, i.e., about us. As a Vedicist, I do not think of myself as studying somebody else's culture. I think of myself as studying our collective culture, just as when I study Greek or Chinese culture, or Mayan or Sumerian culture, etc., I always think of myself as studying our collective culture. In other words, I think that we are all both insiders and outsiders. I am a human being. All things human are a part of my culture. And when, in particular, it comes to a Vedic culture that existed some 3000 years ago, but which in fact survives no longer, nobody has better access to it than those of us who have spent our lives studying it. Isn't this obvious? When it comes to the Rigveda, is Rajiv really an insider? Best, George Thompson On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 3:01 AM, McComas Taylor wrote: > Colleagues might be interested to read a draft of my paper on Malhotra in > 'Mythology Wars' at: > > http://asianstudies.anu.edu.au/wiki/images/d/d0/Mythology_wars.pdf > > It will appear in the June 2011 edition of the Asian Studies Review > > McC > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dominik Wujastyk > Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:18 pm > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Rajiv Malhotra and the Infinity Foundation > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > > Just in case there's anyone here who has managed thus far without being > aware of the views of Rajiv Malhotra, founder of the Infinity Foundation, > here is a recent statement: > > > > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rajiv-malhotra/how-europeans-misappropri_b_837376.html > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From baums at BERKELEY.EDU Sat Mar 26 18:20:51 2011 From: baums at BERKELEY.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 11 11:20:51 -0700 Subject: Bloomfield Vedic Concordance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091984.23782.2226556392969240246.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 369 Lines: 19 Dear George, Bloomfield?s Concordance is available at the Internet Archive: http://www.archive.org/details/vedicconcordance00bloouoft The online reader is very convenient, and if your friend would like to download a (large) PDF file then she can do that too. All best, Stefan -- Dr. Stefan Baums Group in Buddhist Studies University of California, Berkeley From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Sat Mar 26 18:06:09 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 11 14:06:09 -0400 Subject: Bloomfield Vedic Concordance Message-ID: <161227091981.23782.12974658688374871278.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 530 Lines: 16 Dear List, I have a request from a dear friend and colleague who is not a Vedicist, who seeks access to B's concordance. I have tried to download my pdf file of this to her but my email programs are not able to send such large documents. Can someone help me help her to gain access to this very useful concordance? Thanks in advance. George Thompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Sat Mar 26 19:07:03 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 11 15:07:03 -0400 Subject: Bloomfield Vedic Concordance In-Reply-To: <20110326182051.GA5619@deepthought> Message-ID: <161227091986.23782.10930161685811845434.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 741 Lines: 28 Thanks to both Stefan Baums and Peter Wyzlic for their very prompt replies. George Thompson On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Stefan Baums wrote: > Dear George, > > Bloomfield?s Concordance is available at the Internet Archive: > > http://www.archive.org/details/vedicconcordance00bloouoft > > The online reader is very convenient, and if your friend would > like to download a (large) PDF file then she can do that too. > > All best, > Stefan > > -- > Dr. Stefan Baums > Group in Buddhist Studies > University of California, Berkeley > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at UW.EDU.PL Sat Mar 26 19:44:14 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 11 20:44:14 +0100 Subject: Bloomfield Vedic Concordance In-Reply-To: <20110326182051.GA5619@deepthought> Message-ID: <161227091989.23782.9160006349090629826.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 106 Lines: 18 Dear George, just in case it's needed: https://wetransfer.com/ Regards, Artur K. Warsaw Poland From karp at UW.EDU.PL Sat Mar 26 19:45:50 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 11 20:45:50 +0100 Subject: Bloomfield Vedic Concordance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091991.23782.4047259648718556901.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 82 Lines: 10 Sorry, Stefan, The message was meant for George Thompson, Regards, Artur K. From hwtull at MSN.COM Sun Mar 27 15:41:02 2011 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 11 11:41:02 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Rajiv Malhotra and the Infinity Foundation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227091996.23782.9296567143011116742.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2812 Lines: 61 George: Reminiscient of F. max Mueller, writing some 150 years ago (Intro to the Upanishads, vol. I of the SBE); as you know, it was one piece of a larger problematic: ?We cannot separate ourselves from those who believed in these sacred books. There is no specific difference between ourselves and the Brahmans, the Buddhists, the Zoroastrians, or the Taosze...? Herman Tull Princeton, NJ From: George Thompson Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 5:14 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Rajiv Malhotra and the Infinity Foundation Dear McComas, This is an interesting paper. Thank you. Yes, this is obviously an issue that we all, as Indologists, need to confront. But, since I am not much interested in these mythology wars between Wendy's children and Rajiv's children, and since I am no one's child, maybe I can present a different point of view here, an orphan's view, as it were. I am a Vedicist. When I teach Vedic, I don't teach it as an outsider, i.e., as about them. I teach it as an insider, i.e., about us. As a Vedicist, I do not think of myself as studying somebody else's culture. I think of myself as studying our collective culture, just as when I study Greek or Chinese culture, or Mayan or Sumerian culture, etc., I always think of myself as studying our collective culture. In other words, I think that we are all both insiders and outsiders. I am a human being. All things human are a part of my culture. And when, in particular, it comes to a Vedic culture that existed some 3000 years ago, but which in fact survives no longer, nobody has better access to it than those of us who have spent our lives studying it. Isn't this obvious? When it comes to the Rigveda, is Rajiv really an insider? Best, George Thompson On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 3:01 AM, McComas Taylor wrote: Colleagues might be interested to read a draft of my paper on Malhotra in 'Mythology Wars' at: http://asianstudies.anu.edu.au/wiki/images/d/d0/Mythology_wars.pdf It will appear in the June 2011 edition of the Asian Studies Review McC ----- Original Message ----- From: Dominik Wujastyk Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:18 pm Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Rajiv Malhotra and the Infinity Foundation To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Just in case there's anyone here who has managed thus far without being aware of the views of Rajiv Malhotra, founder of the Infinity Foundation, here is a recent statement: > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rajiv-malhotra/how-europeans-misappropri_b_837376.html > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From julia.hegewald at UNI-BONN.DE Sun Mar 27 13:22:31 2011 From: julia.hegewald at UNI-BONN.DE (Julia Hegewald) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 11 15:22:31 +0200 Subject: Publication Announcement: The Jaina Heritage In-Reply-To: <49569.143.50.156.49.1300986014.squirrel@webmail.uni-osnabrueck.de> Message-ID: <161227091993.23782.7801070493382154494.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5707 Lines: 180 Dear colleagues and friends, I am pleased to announce the publication of my edited volume on Jaina history, art & architecture and religion in Karnataka, entitled "The Jaina Heritage: Distinction, Decline and Resilience" (2011, ISBN 978-81-87374-67-1). A brief summary and a table of contents can be found below. The book has been published by Samskriti in Delhi and costs INC/Rupees 750,- plus postage. In case of advance payment, the publishers grant a 20% discount. Please contact the publisher, Mr. Madhumoy Sengupta directly on: madhu_moysengupta at yahoo.co.in Alternatively, the book can be ordered via the British distributors, NCBA UK Limited. The contact person and address are: Dr. Probuddha Ganguly, 149, Park Avenue, Northampton NH3 2HY, UK, Tel. 0444-208824220, probuddha at rediffmail.com. However, when ordered from the UK, the charge per book is ?60 (inclusive of postage). With best wishes, Julia Hegewald Book Summary The Jaina Heritage: Distinction, Decline and Resilience Julia A. B. Hegewald (ed.) Jaina studies are expanding and increasingly gaining in international recognition. Counterbalancing an earlier bias towards research on the Shvetambara community and on north-western India, there are a number of recent surveys on the Digambaras in the South. These studies, however, have generally neglected the modern State of Karnataka. This historically and culturally significant region, in which Jainism has played a major role, forms the focus of the present volume. Despite its emphasis on Digambara Jainism and on Karnataka, the book includes many references to other religious groups striving for supremacy in the region, and to neighbouring States in the wider area of South India. In addition to the novel emphases in terms of religious and regional approach, this collection of thirteen research papers revolves around the question of what is heritage and who defines it. The scholarly contributions combine the latest findings from the three main disciplines of history, art and architecture, and religious studies?with ample citations from literature, epigraphy, archaeology and anthropology. In their entirety they widen our understanding of the concept of heritage and approach hitherto neglected areas of research. Particularly important are the contributions providing fresh evidence on political history, and the rise and subsequent relative decline of the Jaina community in the South. Equally significant are the investigations into neglected and so-far unknown areas of architectural history, combined with the provision of revised interpretations of known sites. The scholarly contributions from religious studies emphasise the distinction and resilience of the Digambara Jainas and outline religious change over a period stretching from the early centuries BCE to the present day. By introducing new areas of enquiry, identifying important signifiers of heritage, reinterpreting earlier findings, drawing on modern South Asian studies, and combining research findings from across a number of academic fields in an interdisciplinary manner, this collection of specialist papers reveals new ways of seeing and understanding the splendour and complexities of the Jaina heritage. In doing so, it opens up a number of new questions concerning the construction and preservation of the heritages of other groups and regions of South Asia and the wider world as well. Table of Contents Foreword by Prof. Dr. Willem B. Boll?e Preface Chapter 1: Introduction: The Jaina Heritage of Southern India and Karnataka Julia A. B. Hegewald Part I: History Chapter 2: Elements of Jaina History in Kannada Literature R. V. S. Sundaram Chapter 3: History of Jainism in Karnataka: Developments from the Tenth to Thirteenth Centuries CE P. N. Narasimha Murthy Chapter 4: The Construction, Destruction and Renovation of Jaina Basadis: A Historical Perspective Shantinath Dibbad Chapter 5: Jainism in the Vijayanagara Empire: The Survival of the Religion in the Capital and in the Coastal Region of Karnataka Pius Fidelis Pinto Part II: Art and Architecture Chapter 6: The Development of Jaina Temple Architecture in Southern Karnataka: From the Beginning to c. 1300 CE M. S. Krishna Murthy Chapter 7: The Shantinatha Basadi at Jinanathapura. Robert J. Del Bont? Chapter 8: Sacred Symbols, Enlightened Beings and Temple Guardians: The Display of Holy Elements on Pillars in Jaina Temple Complexes in Karnataka Julia A. B. Hegewald Chapter 9: A Framework for Understanding Mudabidri Temples as Public Places Pratyush Shankar Chapter 10: Jaina Monuments in and around Hampi: An Art-historical Appraisal K. M. Suresh Chapter 11: The Stone-built Jaina Temples of Mudabidri: A Comparative View with the Jaina Temples of Gujarat and the Wooden Temple Architecture of Kerala Miki Desai Part III: Religion Chapter 12: Jaina Women, Ritual Death and the Deccan Aloka Parasher-Sen Chapter 13: Jaina Goddesses and their Worship in Karnataka Vatsala Iyengar Chapter 14: The Revival of the Digambara Muni Tradition in Karnataka during the Twentieth Century Sabine Scholz Glossary List of Figures List of Plates List of Contributors Index -- Prof. Dr. Julia A. B. Hegewald Professor of Oriental Art History Head of Department Universit?t Bonn Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften (IOA) Abteilung f?r Asiatische und Islamische Kunstgeschichte Adenauerallee 10 D ? 53113 Bonn Germany Email: julia.hegewald at uni-bonn.de www.aik.uni-bonn.de Tel. 0049-228-73 7213 Fax. 0049-228-73 4042 From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Mon Mar 28 10:55:16 2011 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 11 11:55:16 +0100 Subject: Fwd: 16e Journ=?iso-8859-15?Q?=E9e_du_CEIAS_,_Paris:_Du_texte_au_terrain,_du_terrain_au_texte,_Dialogues_disciplinaires_autour_de_l'=A6uvre?= de Madeleine Biardeau Message-ID: <161227092001.23782.12225353861182711685.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2709 Lines: 82 > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: Secr?tariat du CEIAS <secr.ceias at ehess.fr> >Date: 2011/3/22 >Subject: 16? Journ?e du CEIAS: Du texte au >terrain, du terrain au texte,Dialogues >disciplinaires autour de l'?uvre de Madeleine >Biardeau >To: secr.ceias at ehess.fr > >MESSAGE RETRANSMIS PAR LE SECR?TARIAT DU CEIAS > > >16?me Journ?e d'?tudes du CEIAS > >Du texte au terrain, du terrain au texte >Dialogues disciplinaires autour de l'?uvre de Madeleine Biardeau > >mardi 5 avril 2011 > >Salle 639-640, noyau A (ascenseur gauche), 6?me ?tage > >EHESS, 190, Avenue de France, Paris, 13?me > >(M?tro 6, station : Quai de la gare) > > >L'oeuvre de Madeleine Biardeau s'est d?velopp?e >? la crois?e de plusieurs disciplines, de la >philosophie des textes brahmaniques ? ? >l'anthropologie de la civilisation ? indienne. >Le Centre d'?tudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du >Sud, dont elle fut directrice, organise une >journ?e d'?tudes sur les apports de cette >chercheuse, qui souhaitait, selon ses propres >termes, ? abolir la dualit? ?pist?mologique ? >opposant longtemps les sp?cialistes des textes >aux chercheurs de terrain. Au-del? de l'hommage, >la journ?e se concentrera sur la m?thodologie, >tr?s coh?rente, d?velopp?e par Madeleine Biardeau >pour en relever les lignes de forces comme les >points plus discut?s aujourd'hui. >Dans cette perspective, nous r?unissons des >contributions d'anciens collaborateurs, qui >l'ont accompagn?e sur le terrain ou ont >b?n?fici? de son enseignement, de m?me que des >chercheurs qui se sont inspir?s d'une mani?re ou >d'une autre de ses travaux. Seront notamment >d?battus les apports et les limites d'une >analyse structurale des textes sanskrits par >rapport ? une approche plus historique, ou >encore l'articulation entre les donn?es des >textes anciens et les observations >ethnographiques du pr?sent. > >Coordination scientifique: >Rapha?l Rousseleau >(r_rousseleau at hotmail.com) > > > >-- >Nadia Guerguadj >Centre d'?tudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud >UMR 8564 CNRS/EHESS >190-198 avenue de France 75244 Paris cedex 13 >t?l:33 (0)1 49 54 83 94 fax:33 (0)1 49 54 26 76 -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: JourneeBiardeauprogramme1.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 241832 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Mon Mar 28 16:04:23 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 11 12:04:23 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Rajiv Malhotra and the Infinity Foundation In-Reply-To: <20110328150730.105217bye6fv7j82@mail.uni-leipzig.de> Message-ID: <161227092015.23782.10792411776276050419.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1059 Lines: 35 Dear List, I have been having an offlist conversation with a few list members about my statement "I am a Vedicist...." One person pointed out a similar remark by Margaret Mead: "Nothing human is alien to me." What inspired me was a Latin remark made by the great Russian linguist, Roman Jakobson, a paraphrase from the Roman playwright Terence: >???From Wikipedia: One famous quotation by Terence reads: "*Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto*", or "I am a man, I consider nothing that is human alien to me." This appeared in his play *Heauton Timorumenos *. My version of Jakobson's paraphrase, which I sent to a list member a little while ago, is: "I am a linguist; there is nothing in linguistics that I consider foreign to me." Perhaps the List in general might find this of interest. Best wishes, George Thompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Mon Mar 28 16:16:14 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 11 12:16:14 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Rajiv Malhotra and the Infinity Foundation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092018.23782.15768333877174509530.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1326 Lines: 44 Oops! I forgot to paste in Jakobson's Latin paraphrase: "Linguista sum; linguistici nihil a me alienum esse puto." Sorry about that! GT On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 12:04 PM, George Thompson wrote: > Dear List, > > I have been having an offlist conversation with a few list members about > my statement "I am a Vedicist...." > > One person pointed out a similar remark by Margaret Mead: "Nothing human is > alien to me." > > What inspired me was a Latin remark made by the great Russian linguist, > Roman Jakobson, a paraphrase from the Roman playwright Terence: > > From Wikipedia: > > One famous quotation by Terence reads: "*Homo sum, humani nihil a me > alienum puto*", or "I am a man, I consider nothing that is human alien to > me." This appeared in his play *Heauton Timorumenos > *. > > My version of Jakobson's paraphrase, which I sent to a list member a little > while ago, is: > > "I am a linguist; there is nothing in linguistics that I consider foreign > to me." > > Perhaps the List in general might find this of interest. > > Best wishes, > > George Thompson > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From phmaas at ARCOR.DE Mon Mar 28 10:23:06 2011 From: phmaas at ARCOR.DE (Philipp Maas) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 11 12:23:06 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Rajiv Malhotra and the Infinity Foundation Message-ID: <161227092006.23782.12716729550687074240.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 580 Lines: 11 Dear McComas, I read your article on ?Mythology Wars? and found it for the most part well written and informative. I would, however, suggest considering to change the passage ?we cannot deny that Oriental Studies was the handmaiden of colonialism and imperialism? into a less general statement. As it stands, it is (at least) a gross oversimplification of the complex motives and methods of early oriental studies. I don?t know if you read Halbfass? ?India and Europe?. If not, I strongly recommend it to you. I am sure you will enjoy the reading... All the best, Philipp From franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Mon Mar 28 13:07:30 2011 From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE (franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 11 15:07:30 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Rajiv Malhotra and the Infinity Foundation In-Reply-To: <1121589957.234285.1301307786197.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail06.arcor-online.net> Message-ID: <161227092008.23782.2364170247677003331.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 945 Lines: 32 Dear McComas, on Halbfass's stance on Orientalism see also his introductory essay in "Beyond Orientalism" ed. Franco/Preisendanz. Best, Eli Zitat von Philipp Maas : > Dear McComas, > I read your article on ?Mythology Wars? and found it for the most > part well written and informative. > > I would, however, suggest considering to change the passage ?we > cannot deny that Oriental Studies was the handmaiden of colonialism > and imperialism? into a less general statement. As it stands, it is > (at least) a gross oversimplification of the complex motives and > methods of early oriental studies. I don?t know if you read > Halbfass? ?India and Europe?. If not, I strongly recommend it to > you. I am sure you will enjoy the reading... > > All the best, > > Philipp > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Mon Mar 28 14:12:54 2011 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 11 16:12:54 +0200 Subject: Positions available Message-ID: <161227092012.23782.17122194238112883548.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7108 Lines: 232 PhD Student/Post-Doctoral Fellow Positions (11-081) Faculty of Humanities PhD Student/Post-Doctoral Fellow Positions in Buddhism and Social Justice: Doctrine, Ideology and Discrimination in Tension Vacancy number: 11-081 The Leiden University Institute for Area Studies (LIAS) of the Faculty of Humanities at Leiden University invites applications for two full-time positions (PhD student and/or Post-doctoral Fellow) in the NWO-funded project "Buddhism and Social Justice: Doctrine, Ideology and Discrimination in Tension," headed by Prof. dr. Jonathan Silk. Initial appointment will be from September 2011 or as soon as possible thereafter. Since its foundation in 1575, Leiden University, with around 17,000 students and 4,000 staff, has built an internationally recognized record of excellence in teaching and research. The Faculty of Humanities consists of the Institutes for Area Studies, Creative & Performing Arts, Cultural Disciplines, History, Linguistics, Philosophy, and Religious Studies. It has about 4,500 students and 900 staff from around the world. The faculty offers about 30 BA and 45 MA programs. The Graduate School has an annual output of about 50 PhDs. The Leiden University Institute for Area Studies ( http://www.hum.leiden.edu/lias/), which comprises the Schools of Asian Studies and Middle Eastern Studies, is committed to the integration of disciplinary and regional-historical perspectives, and has as its aim the advancement of teaching and research of Area Studies at Leiden University and in the wider academic community. Area specializations in Asian Studies include Chinese, Japanese, Korean, South- & Southeast Asian, and Tibetan Studies. Project description Buddhism is widely perceived to be, and Buddhist sources themselves promote the tradition as, a philosophy of liberation. Yet Buddhist societies, both ancient and modern, not only evidence, but indeed seem to promote, social inequalities. The project ?Buddhism and Social Justice? explores the inner tensions in Buddhist cultures between inherited core values and social realities. The project revolves around a core investigation of slavery and caste in India, with current collaborators also investigating slavery in Korea and monastic economy in Tibet, approached through text-historical, historical and a socio-anthropological methods. The synergy between subprojects lies in the question of how Buddhist ways of thinking and acting inform and structure historically Buddhist Asian societies, and how, correspondingly, Buddhist ideologies and dogmas were transformed in historical contexts. This study seeks therefore to uncover the links between the ancient and the modern and the theoretical and the real-world, thereby leading both to a deeper appreciation of how religious systems function in societies in general, and to a more nuanced appreciation of the dynamics of historically Buddhist societies in general, particularly with respect to questions of social justice. For the available positions we seek scholars interested in investigating some aspect of Buddhism and Social Justice, broadly conceived. Because the starting point of the project is Buddhism, rather than Social Justice per se, familiarity with the history, doctrine and relevant original languages of Buddhist traditions is essential. Tasks for PhD candidates: - Participation in local research meetings and PhD teaching; - The writing of a PhD dissertation; - Helping to organize a conference in the framework of the research project; - Presenting papers at international conferences; - Publishing research results in the form of (an) article(s). Requirements - A (Research) MA degree in Buddhist Studies or in a related field with a strong Buddhist Studies component; exceptionally qualified students with a BA are also encouraged to apply; - Knowledge of the relevant language(s); - Ability to work both independently and as part of a team; - Excellent skills in English. Post-Doc applicants should have a demonstrably excellent academic track record in Buddhist Studies, and hold a PhD in Buddhist Studies or a related field, or its equivalent. They should have an excellent command of English and be prepared to present their research results in English. In addition to research, post-doc fellows will teach a small number of courses on topics within their area of specialization, and assist in guiding the PhD students. Conditions of employment The position of Ph.D. student is temporary for maximally four years of full-time appointment, and with an initial nine-month probationary period. The position of the Post-doctoral fellow is temporary, max. three years with a full-time appointment, and with an initial nine-month probationary period. The salary is determined in accordance with the current scales as set out in the collective labour agreement for the Dutch universities (CAO): Ph.D. fellow: min. ? 2.042,- max. ? 2.612,- gross per month, with additional holiday and end-of-year bonuses. Postdoctoral fellow: min. ? 2.379, max. ? 4.374, , with additional holiday and end-of-year bonuses. Candidates from outside the Netherlands may be eligible for a substantial tax break. Information For more information about the position please contact Prof. dr. J.A Silk, tel. +31-71-527-2510, email *j.a.silk at hum.leidenuniv.nl*. Please note that * applications* should not be sent directly to Prof. Silk; see the address below. Application PhD candidates please send your application (in English), including: ? a cover letter stating your motivation for this position, ? a CV, ? copies of your academic transcripts, ? an English writing sample, ? two letters of reference. Post-doc candidates please send your application (in English), including: ? a cover letter stating your motivation for this position, ? a CV, ? copies of your academic transcripts, ? a copy of your PhD thesis and other relevant publications, ? three letters of reference. Review of applications will commence by 15 May 2011 and continue until the position is filled or this call is closed. Please *send your application* electronically, indicating the vacancy number to: vacatureslias at hum.leidenuniv.nl All application materials should be sent in pdf format. If it is not possible for you to submit an electronic application, you may mail your materials, citing the vacancy number, to: M. van Asperen Leiden University P&O FGW PO Box 9515 2300 RA Leiden The Netherlands A telephone (or Skype) interview may be part of the selection procedure. -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Tue Mar 29 15:43:21 2011 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 11 08:43:21 -0700 Subject: Gandhi racist and bisexual? (was Rajiv Malhotra and the Infinity Foundation) In-Reply-To: <13074_1301387142_1301387142_20110329102531.27271yw8i5pw1c3f@mail.uni-leipzig.de> Message-ID: <161227092025.23782.5484063829126827461.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3995 Lines: 26 On 2011-03-29, at 1:25 AM, franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE wrote: > A new biography of Gandhi (extracts in the Wall Street Journal) describes him as a racist and bisexual. Compare: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Outrage-over-reviews-of-new-Gandhi-book/articleshow/7811322.cms NEW DELHI: Thousands of books have been written on Mahatma Gandhi with each new one claiming to have discovered an unknown facet of his eventful life. When reviews of Pulitzer prizewinner Joseph Lelyveld's "Great Soul: Mahatma Gandhi and His Struggle with India" hit the newspapers in England and US claiming that the book says Gandhi was a bisexual and had a German-Jewish bodybuilder lover in Hermann Kallenbach it created immediate sensation. But as the Daily Mail's review of the book created a storm in cyberspace, there was a barrage of protests not just from Gandhians who said this was "blasphemy", but from the book's author himself who denied having suggested anything of the sort. Lelyveld told TOI, "I do not allege that Gandhi is a racist or bisexual in 'Great Soul'. The word 'bisexual' nowhere appears in the book." He also denied having called Gandhi a racist. "The word 'racist' is used once to characterise comments by Gandhi early in his stay in South Africa, part of a chapter summarising his statements about Africans and his relations with them. The chapter in no way concludes that he was a racist or offers any suggestion of it." Psychoanalyst Sudhir Kakar, one of the first to write on Gandhi's sexuality in 'Intimate Relations: Exploring Indian Sexuality' and later in 'Mira and Mahatma', is yet to read the book but has gone through an ocean of archives on Gandhi and says he never discovered anything that the reviewers claim the book consists of. Kakar remembers finding references to Kallenbach during his research but not the way the reviewers have portrayed it. He says if the book has what reviewers claim then it is plain "stupid." "Gandhi always talked of complete love but it was of platonic kind," he says. Another eminent modern India historian who has read the book said, "The reviews are by Churchill fans and rightwingers." The Mahatma's grandson Gopal Gandhi said, "I will not comment till I read the book." But Gandhian scholar Tridip Suhrud, author of books like 'The Autobiography of The Story of My Experiments With Truth' not only interacted with Lelyveld when he was researching the book but has also read it. He is aghast with the reviews and swears by Lelyveld. Suhrud says the section on Kallenbach begins with a quote from him. "Lelyveld asks me what I think of Gandhi's relationship with Kallenbach and I say, 'It is almost like a couple'. The two had a deep bond that borders on attraction of platonic kind. Joseph is not talking about what the reviewers are claiming," Suhrud says. He explains that in the late 19th century and early 20th century men addressed each other in a way that can be construed now as lovers. He gives the instance of letters between Rabindranath Tagore and CF Andrews. "Andrews wrote to Tagore in a manner that might raise eyebrows today. But the context was different then as also the usage of words. Tagore addressed him as Charlie," Suhrud says. He also says reviewers claim that the book portrays Gandhi as a racist is factually incorrect. In fact, he says, the book chronicles his work with Zulus as well during the Boer War where he took up the cause of the blacks. Suhrud goes on to give full marks to Lelyveld and the book. He says it is the first political biography of Gandhi by an expert on apartheid. "It is a fascinating work. Lelyveld shows there is continuity in Gandhi as well as major points of departure. Gandhi of South Africa was not the same as Gandhi of Sabarmati ashram. And Gandhi of Sabarmati was not the same after Dandi March." Lelyveld agrees: "The aim of 'Great Soul' is to sift the evidence and facts of Gandhi's life and discuss them in a careful, responsible and balanced way." From franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE Tue Mar 29 08:25:31 2011 From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE (franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 11 10:25:31 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Rajiv Malhotra and the Infinity Foundation In-Reply-To: <20110328150730.105217bye6fv7j82@mail.uni-leipzig.de> Message-ID: <161227092020.23782.10092573631526896828.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 313 Lines: 12 A new biography of Gandhi (extracts in the Wall Street Journal) describes him as a racist and bisexual. It would be interesting to see the response of Malhotra & co. Best, Eli ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM Tue Mar 29 08:36:48 2011 From: venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM (venetia ansell) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 11 14:06:48 +0530 Subject: Translations of Surya-siddhanta and Brahmasphuta-siddhanta Message-ID: <161227092023.23782.16261782418598044862.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 291 Lines: 9 Can anyone recommend a good translation of Surya-siddh?nta and Brahmasphu?a-siddh?nta? Thank you very much, Venetia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Mar 29 19:00:53 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 11 21:00:53 +0200 Subject: INDOLOGY website down for mainenance Message-ID: <161227092028.23782.12848780750697603676.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 393 Lines: 11 The indology.info website will be unavailable briefly, starting shortly. The outage may last 3-6 hours. Apologies for any inconvenience. This is due to essential maintenance and domain server upgrade. Best, Dominik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dxs163 at CASE.EDU Wed Mar 30 14:13:17 2011 From: dxs163 at CASE.EDU (Deepak Sarma) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 11 10:13:17 -0400 Subject: Announcement: Classical Indian Philosophy: A Reader, Columbia U.P. by Deepak Sarma Message-ID: <161227092034.23782.17340559893357650670.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1207 Lines: 62 All: Book announcement: Classical Indian Philosophy: A Reader Table of Contents Introduction Part I. Nastika (Heterodox) Schools 1. Carvaka 2. Buddhism 3. Yogacara Buddhism 4. Madhyamaka Buddhism 5. Jainism Part II. Five Astika (Orthodox) Schools 6. Nyaya 7. Vaisesika 8. Samkhya 9. Yoga 10. Mimamsa Part III. Schools of Vedanta 11. Advaita Vedanta 12. Visitadvaita Vedanta 13. Madhva Vedanta General Bibliography Index http://www.cup.columbia.edu/book/978-0-231-13398-2/classical-indian-philosophy Anyone who uses the promo code ?CLASA? to buy the book from this site will receive a 30% discount off the price of the book yours, Deepak Dr. Deepak Sarma Associate Professor of Religious Studies Associate Professor of Philosophy Associate Professor of Classics Associate Professor of Bioethics, Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine Guest Curator: Indian Kalighat Paintings May 1-Sept. 18, 2011 The Cleveland Museum of Art The South Asia Initiative http://www.case.edu/artsci/southasia/ Mailing Address: Department of Religious Studies Tomlinson Hall 2121 MLK Jr. Drive Case Western Reserve University Cleveland, OH 44106-7112 office: 216-368-4790 deepak.sarma at case.edu From vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET Wed Mar 30 18:01:21 2011 From: vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 11 13:01:21 -0500 Subject: A puzzling palm leaf (updated) Message-ID: <161227092048.23782.2996356354456473562.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 100 Lines: 13 Jacob, my vote is for > scribal exercise It would appear to be a practice sheet. cheers, Dan From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Mar 30 17:18:22 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 11 13:18:22 -0400 Subject: A puzzling palm leaf (updated) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092052.23782.17937783638609885431.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1112 Lines: 20 Is there any indication whether this was at the beginning, the end, or the middle of the ms? E.g., did the ms come stringed and with numbered folios mostly in order and was this one at the beginning or the end, so that it might originally have been one of a number of blank folios meant to protect those with the main body of the text? I ask because I have noticed in both South Asian and Southeast Asian mss that there is often doodling on the blank folios, though I confess I have never noticed it on palm leaf mss. Sometimes the doodling has struck me as by adults and other times as by children. Admittedly, from your description it does not sound like a 'random' doodle to pass the time, but still might just be a case of using any convenient piece of writing material for a nonce use unrelated to the body of the ms. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Mar 30 17:37:21 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 11 13:37:21 -0400 Subject: A puzzling palm leaf (updated) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092058.23782.17322179310943394058.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1037 Lines: 25 Jacob, Thanks for the clarification and sorry I did not read the initial message more carefully. Yours, Allen -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Jaob Schmidt-Madsen Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 1:30 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] A puzzling palm leaf (updated) Hi Allen, To expand on the mail I just sent to the list stating that I only have six unbound leaves (one of them being the mysterious one without holes for binding), I can say that I have no clear indication of which part of the manuscript the leaf might stem from. As pagination normally occurs in the left margin, and as all my leaves are broken off at the ends, I only have the context of the contents to go from, and that obviously does not apply to the leaf under discussion. As you mention yourself, doodling does not exactly seem to be the case here, but the relation of the leaf to the rest of the manuscript is definitely worth taking into considering. Regards, Jacob From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Mar 30 17:41:46 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 11 13:41:46 -0400 Subject: help with Sinhala script mss Message-ID: <161227092061.23782.3077321685282446406.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1294 Lines: 27 The Library of Congress has about 20 manuscripts in Sinhala script; we have no idea whether they are in Pali, Sinhala, or Sanskrit. They have been completely digitized in a rough and ready way (color *.jpg images with a small digital camera), but not one suitable for mounting on the Web. Would anyone here be interested in having a look at them if I send CDs of the digital files, and perhaps, if they are not too difficult or uninteresting, filling out a simple worksheet for each, with the aim of creating from the worksheets Minimal Level Records to be put on our OPAC? Even an authoritative identification of the language would be a boon, because we could create for each a skeleton in-process record for language, script, and physical description to notify scholars of the mss's presence. These are NOT in Poleman's Census. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET Wed Mar 30 19:05:29 2011 From: vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 11 14:05:29 -0500 Subject: A puzzling palm leaf (updated) Message-ID: <161227092064.23782.9695375509173119526.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 650 Lines: 19 >how such a sheet might have been > kept with the manuscript since it is not fitted with holes for binding. Jacob, Without a detailed and verifiable history of provenance, that would be impossible to answer -- one can spin out infinite speculations. For instance, at some point the ms. was owned by, or in the same room as a scribe or scribes to be, and one of their practice sheets got shuffled in. Maybe the son of the ms. owner was doing his homework by using the aksaras in the ms. as his exemplars. How did the practice sheet get shuffled into the ms? Unintentionally, perhaps. Many alternate scenarios can be imagined. cheers, Dan From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Wed Mar 30 15:21:43 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 11 15:21:43 +0000 Subject: George Thompson wants to stay in touch on LinkedIn Message-ID: <161227092038.23782.2999608814114599323.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 473 Lines: 17 I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - George Thompson George Thompson Asst. Prof. at Montserrat College of Art Confirm that you know George Thompson https://www.linkedin.com/e/-3im7t1-glwelseb-46/isd/2603966158/dUReJvr6/EML-invite_guest_no_snack_59/ (c) LinkedIn 2011 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Mar 30 19:29:44 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 11 15:29:44 -0400 Subject: Rau's Weben und Flechten In-Reply-To: <185507.19072.qm@web94811.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227092067.23782.11868708100074566718.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 626 Lines: 23 Dipak, The online Global Books in Print (a subscription-only database) does not list it, but http://used.addall.com shows two copies available for USD $25 and $32.50. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Wed Mar 30 10:19:00 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 11 15:49:00 +0530 Subject: Rau's Weben und Flechten Message-ID: <161227092032.23782.7629094440906907802.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 575 Lines: 24 Dear Colleagues, Could anyone inform if W. Rau's ?Weben und Flechten im vedischen Indien is still vailable - hard copy or online? It was published in 1971 as Abhandlungen der Akademie der Wissenschaften und der Literatur, Geistes- und Sozialwissenschaftliche Klasse, Jahrgang 1970, Nr. 11, Wiesbaden. I shall be grateful for any hints on its availability. Best wishes Dipak Bhattacharya? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pankajaindia at GMAIL.COM Wed Mar 30 15:30:50 2011 From: pankajaindia at GMAIL.COM (Pankaj Jain) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 11 16:30:50 +0100 Subject: Announcing my book Dharma and Ecology of Hindu Communities Message-ID: <161227092036.23782.90705137220152108.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 174 Lines: 4 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jacob at FABULARASA.DK Wed Mar 30 16:13:53 2011 From: jacob at FABULARASA.DK (Jaob Schmidt-Madsen) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 11 18:13:53 +0200 Subject: A puzzling palm leaf In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092041.23782.11714745120191414435.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1815 Lines: 53 Dear all One of the palm leaves in the Sinhalese Sanskrit manuscript I am currently working on continues to be a bit of a mystery to me. I was wondering if any of you have encountered similar leaves, or might have an idea of what it might be, anyway. The leaf is broken off at both ends, and the writing is very faint, making me suspect that it was styled but not charcoaled. Furthermore, the leaf is not fitted with holes for binding. Recto it reads: Line 1-8: "[...] (b)R-bRR-bL-bLL-be-bai-bo-bau-bAm-baH-bha-bhA-bhi-bh(I) [...]" This appears to be a list of akSaras used for pagination, here running from 359 (bR) to 372 (bhI). Curiously, the listing does not continue down the leaf, but instead repeats the same line eight times over. Verso the leaf reads: Line 1-7: "[...] (ra)-la-va-śa-ṣa-sa-ha-ḷa-(vadaki)maḥk(ī)-akṣara-soḍa(sacadak) [...]" This appears to be an alphabetically (or syllabarically) ordered list of consonantal characters with some text added (most notably the word "akSara"). Again, the line is repeated down across the entire leaf. You can see images of both leaves here (please note that recto and verso have been arbitrarily assigned by the people who scanned the images for me): Recto: http://florencefragments.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/leaf-6-recto.jpg Verso: http://florencefragments.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/leaf-6-verso.jpg So far, suggestions of what the leaf might represent have included a scribal exercise, a reference sheet, and a kind of orthographic ritual. If you have any more to add to the list, or any knowledge that might elevate one of the suggestions above the others, I would be most interested to hear from you. Puzzled greetings, Jacob Jacob Schmidt-Madsen Department of Indology University of Copenhagen From jacob at FABULARASA.DK Wed Mar 30 16:26:39 2011 From: jacob at FABULARASA.DK (Jaob Schmidt-Madsen) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 11 18:26:39 +0200 Subject: A puzzling palm leaf (updated) Message-ID: <161227092044.23782.12303054090208155213.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1928 Lines: 61 [Sorry, I think there was a minor problem with the diacritics in the second line quoted. I have written them Harvard-Kyoto style instead.] /jacob --- Dear all One of the palm leaves in the Sinhalese Sanskrit manuscript I am currently working on continues to be a bit of a mystery to me. I was wondering if any of you have encountered similar leaves, or might have an idea of what it might be, anyway. The leaf is broken off at both ends, and the writing is very faint, making me suspect that it was styled but not charcoaled. Furthermore, the leaf is not fitted with holes for binding. Recto it reads: Line 1-8: "[...] (b)R-bRR-bL-bLL-be-bai-bo-bau-bAm-baH-bha-bhA-bhi-bh(I) [...]" This appears to be a list of akSaras used for pagination, here running from 359 (bR) to 372 (bhI). Curiously, the listing does not continue down the leaf, but instead repeats the same line eight times over. Verso the leaf reads: Line 1-7: "[...] (ra)-la-va-za-Sa-sa-ha-La-(vadaki)maHk(I)-akSara-soDa(sacadak) [...]" This appears to be an alphabetically (or syllabarically) ordered list of consonantal characters with some text added (most notably the word "akSara"). Again, the line is repeated down across the entire leaf. You can see images of both leaves here (please note that recto and verso have been arbitrarily assigned by the people who scanned the images for me): Recto: http://florencefragments.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/leaf-6-recto.jpg Verso: http://florencefragments.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/leaf-6-verso.jpg So far, suggestions of what the leaf might represent have included a scribal exercise, a reference sheet, and a kind of orthographic ritual. If you have any more to add to the list, or any knowledge that might elevate one of the suggestions above the others, I would be most interested to hear from you. Puzzled greetings, Jacob Jacob Schmidt-Madsen Department of Indology University of Copenhagen From jacob at FABULARASA.DK Wed Mar 30 17:18:00 2011 From: jacob at FABULARASA.DK (Jaob Schmidt-Madsen) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 11 19:18:00 +0200 Subject: A puzzling palm leaf (updated) In-Reply-To: <01a901cbef04$7a002a90$6502a8c0@Dan> Message-ID: <161227092050.23782.7252207373990774771.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 541 Lines: 27 Hi Dan That's the third vote I get for scribal exercise, and none for the others, so a pattern definitely seems to be emerging. However, one thing I would like to ask you, and everybody else, is how such a sheet might have been kept with the manuscript since it is not fitted with holes for binding. I only have six stray leaves (five of them holed), but somehow they have survived together. Thanks for the input, Jacob > Jacob, > > my vote is for > >> scribal exercise > > It would appear to be a practice sheet. > > cheers, > Dan > From jacob at FABULARASA.DK Wed Mar 30 17:30:23 2011 From: jacob at FABULARASA.DK (Jaob Schmidt-Madsen) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 11 19:30:23 +0200 Subject: A puzzling palm leaf (updated) In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F1684C2DA82@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227092055.23782.12325792386100688252.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1847 Lines: 49 Hi Allen, To expand on the mail I just sent to the list stating that I only have six unbound leaves (one of them being the mysterious one without holes for binding), I can say that I have no clear indication of which part of the manuscript the leaf might stem from. As pagination normally occurs in the left margin, and as all my leaves are broken off at the ends, I only have the context of the contents to go from, and that obviously does not apply to the leaf under discussion. As you mention yourself, doodling does not exactly seem to be the case here, but the relation of the leaf to the rest of the manuscript is definitely worth taking into considering. Regards, Jacob > Is there any indication whether this was at the beginning, the end, or the > middle of the ms? E.g., did the ms come stringed and with numbered folios > mostly in order and was this one at the beginning or the end, so that it > might originally have been one of a number of blank folios meant to > protect those with the main body of the text? I ask because I have > noticed in both South Asian and Southeast Asian mss that there is often > doodling on the blank folios, though I confess I have never noticed it on > palm leaf mss. Sometimes the doodling has struck me as by adults and > other times as by children. > > Admittedly, from your description it does not sound like a 'random' doodle > to pass the time, but still might just be a case of using any convenient > piece of writing material for a nonce use unrelated to the body of the ms. > > Allen > > > Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. > Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator > South Asia Team > Asian Division > Library of Congress > Washington, DC 20540-4810 > USA > tel. 202-707-3732 > fax 202-707-1724 > The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of > Congress. > From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 31 01:18:41 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 11 21:18:41 -0400 Subject: spam from my email address Message-ID: <161227092071.23782.9105192484835297779.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1176 Lines: 29 > > Dear List, > Apparently spam emails have been sent to many list members from my email address. I apologize for the inconvenience. I am often asked by students [and sometimes also by other faculty members and scholars] to join their professional network. I am not much interested in such things, but I often accept the invitation, out of ritual politeness [you know, what is called interaction ritual]. In this case, when I accepted the 'invitation' I was taken to some loop from which I could not find a way to escape. As a result, this obnoxious website was able to troll my email address book and send fake 'invitations' from 'me' to everyone on my address book. This is spam. It is not a virus or malware. Thus nobody's computer is in any danger. I am sorry for any inconvenience to you. But the greatest inconvenience has been to me, since I have had to answer roughly 25 emails asking me if my 'invitation' was genuine. It wasn't. It was spam. Best wishes, George Thompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Thu Mar 31 04:23:02 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 11 09:53:02 +0530 Subject: Wilhelm Rau Weben ud Flechten Message-ID: <161227092074.23782.10292886935428713622.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 394 Lines: 8 I was pleasantly surprised by the number of positive responses to my query on Rau's Weben und Flechten, some with copies of the monograph, from young scholars. I wish them fruitful golden days. Best Dipak Bhattacharya -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rah2k at VIRGINIA.EDU Thu Mar 31 18:19:16 2011 From: rah2k at VIRGINIA.EDU (Bob Hueckstedt) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 11 14:19:16 -0400 Subject: Rau's Staat und Gesellschaft Message-ID: <161227092078.23782.15555538858396461983.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 232 Lines: 9 Trying to find for purchase Wilhelm Rau's 1957 book published by Harrassowitz _Staat und Gesellschaft im alten Indien nach den Brahmana-Texten dargestellt_ I've hit nothing but deadends. Grateful for any help. Bob Hueckstedt From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Thu Mar 31 18:35:10 2011 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 11 14:35:10 -0400 Subject: Rau's Staat und Gesellschaft In-Reply-To: <4D94C5A4.8010001@virginia.edu> Message-ID: <161227092081.23782.5544457524284288154.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1342 Lines: 41 Dear Bob, this may not immediately help you, however, W. Rau had authorized me long ago to get his 'Staat' translated into English, along with his monographs on archaeology, weaving, metals, arrow poison, etc. (we will also include his English papers: on the donkey, on settlements, etc.) The translation has long been done (best to enquire with Patrick Olivelle). However, it has not been finalized. W. Rau also insisted that I read a proof. So there is definite hope is that all of this will appear in English sooner or later ... Please keep reminding us! Michael On Mar 31, 2011, at 2:19 PM, Bob Hueckstedt wrote: > Trying to find for purchase Wilhelm Rau's 1957 book published by Harrassowitz _Staat und Gesellschaft im alten Indien nach den Brahmana-Texten dargestellt_ I've hit nothing but deadends. Grateful for any help. > > Bob Hueckstedt > ============ > Michael Witzel > witzel at fas.harvard.edu > > > Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University > 1 Bow Street, > Cambridge MA 02138, USA > > phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; > my direct line: 617- 496 2990 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athr at LOC.GOV Thu Mar 31 21:05:17 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 11 17:05:17 -0400 Subject: book search services Message-ID: <161227092086.23782.11376314794221707462.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1330 Lines: 37 I attach a list of general book search services plus a list of Japanese in print and o.p. booksellers that a colleague gave me for searching a particular title printed in Japan. At least some of the latter have some functionality with Roman script titles. All the links seem to be active as of today, 03-31-11. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bookfinders03-31-11.doc Type: application/msword Size: 40960 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Japaneseonlinebooksellers03-21-11.doc Type: application/msword Size: 44032 bytes Desc: not available URL: From c.cicuzza at IOL.IT Sun May 1 01:17:09 2011 From: c.cicuzza at IOL.IT (c.cicuzza@iol.it) Date: Sun, 01 May 11 03:17:09 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?An_=C4=81malak=C4=AB_in_the_palm_of_the_hand?= Message-ID: <161227092384.23782.16347726718301683269.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 509 Lines: 19 Dear All, one more example from the Pali literature transmitted in Siam: so pana mah?moggall?nathero yath? puriso ?malakaphala? gahetv? attano p??itale ?hapeti. Cf. Buddhap?dama?gala (ed. in Cicuzza, C., A Mirror Reflecting the Entire World, Bangkok and Lumbini 2011, p. 58). Best Regards, Claudio Cicuzza (Webster University) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.cicuzza at IOL.IT Sun May 1 01:17:57 2011 From: c.cicuzza at IOL.IT (c.cicuzza@iol.it) Date: Sun, 01 May 11 03:17:57 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?An_=C4=81malak=C4=AB_in_the_palm_of_the_hand?= Message-ID: <161227092388.23782.12223708685461112117.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 509 Lines: 19 Dear All, one more example from the Pali literature transmitted in Siam: so pana mah?moggall?nathero yath? puriso ?malakaphala? gahetv? attano p??itale ?hapeti. Cf. Buddhap?dama?gala (ed. in Cicuzza, C., A Mirror Reflecting the Entire World, Bangkok and Lumbini 2011, p. 58). Best Regards, Claudio Cicuzza (Webster University) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Sun May 1 06:19:25 2011 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Sun, 01 May 11 06:19:25 +0000 Subject: Some Paippalaada publications by Paippalaadins Message-ID: <161227092391.23782.17353533621085522344.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3625 Lines: 30 With apologies for the delay, I wish to report on a few publications I obtained during my fieldwork in Orissa last winter. In December 2007, the Avadhoota Datta Peetham (Sri Ganapati Sachchidananda Ashrama, Datta Nagara, Ooty Road, Mysore, 570025) brought out a publication in Devanaagarii script entitled Atharva.na.h Veda.h Paippalaada ;Saakhaa Sa.mhitaa as volume 16 in the Vedavij;naana Granthaavalii. The work was prepared for the Peetham by two Paippalaada Brahmins hailing from the village Guhiaapaa.la in East Singbhum Dt., Jharkhand, namely Kunjabihari Upadhyaya (who lives in Puri) and his student Ashok Kumar Misra. The volume covers only kaa.n.das 1-15 of the Paippalaadasa.mhitaa, and even though there is no information about the sources on which the publication is based, it has certainly been copied from Prof. Dipak Bhattacharya?s edition of kaa.n.das 1-15 published in 1997, which I myself bought for the Paa.tha;saalaa in Guhiaapaa.laa in 2000. For kaa.n.das 6-7, a preliminary draft in Oriya script of my new edition, which I handed to these friends in 2004, seems to have been followed to make some modifications to Prof. Bhattacharya?s edition. I don?t expect there will be anything of philological interest in this publication. Different is the case of the first complete edition of the Paippalaadasa.mhitaa based on Oriya manuscripts, i.e. an edition including all twenty kaa.n.das in one volume, that was brought out in 2010 by Kunja Bihari Upadhyaya himself, almost entirely in Devanaagarii script. There is an interesting introduction entitled Aatharva.navedapaippalaadasa.mhitaa mudra.nasya prastaava.h, which however does not throw light on the sources for this printing. I expect that Mr. Upadhyaya that he has used more or less the same basis for kaa.n.das 1-15 as that used for the 2007 printing. He has not had access to Prof. Dipak Bhattacharya?s 2008 edition of kaa.n.das 16. This means that he has printed all of kaa.n.das 16-20 on the basis of one or more manuscripts collected by him, at least one of them in collaboration with myself. Mr. Upadhyaya has not consulted any other scholars in preparing his edition, and does not have training in (Vedic) philology, but does have a reasonable mastery of Sanskrit and is very familiar with Oriya manuscripts and the idiosyncracies of the script we find in them. So I expect that the text of the thus far unpublished kaa.n.das 17-20 in this printing will have the value of a reasonably reliable transcript of one or two codices. For those who have no access to manuscripts or who cannot read Oriya script, this certainly is of some use as we await the complete publication of Prof. Dipak Bhattacharya?s edition. Being based on philological principles, the latter will of course supersede Mr. Upadhyaya?s printing. I have deposited one copy of this volume in the library of Leiden University.?Mr. Upadhyaya has DTP-ed his volume as ?Nijiiya Prakaa;sanam?. He has asked me to make known that copies of the volume can be requested through the following addresses: KUNJA BIHARI UPADHYAYA GOUDABADA SAHI At/Po/Dist.: PURI ODISHA, 752011, INDIA email: kunja.paippalada at gmail.com Of much more restricted interested will be the two small paddhati volumes Durvalak.rtyavidhi and ;Sraaddhapaddhati compiled in Oriya script (and in a mixture of Oriya with Sanskrit language) by Benudhara Panda, again of Guhiaapaa.la village. I can supply scans to those who are interested, and intend to deposit some of the extra copies I bought in public libraries in Europe and the US. ? Best wishes, Arlo Griffiths EFEO/Jakarta From rah2k at VIRGINIA.EDU Wed May 4 16:02:58 2011 From: rah2k at VIRGINIA.EDU (Bob Hueckstedt) Date: Wed, 04 May 11 12:02:58 -0400 Subject: Indian Astrology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092401.23782.14661932784242138674.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 619 Lines: 17 Perhaps David Pingree's fascicle in the History of Indian Literature series called Jyotih?s?a?stra : astral and mathematical literature? Bob Hueckstedt On 5/4/2011 9:42 AM, Tracy Coleman wrote: > Indologists-- > > I have a student (from New Delhi, actually) who is interested in writing his undergraduate thesis on Astrology. I would appreciate your bibliographic suggestions, since I'm not sure how much material will be accessible to him (in English or Hindi) that is not overly technical. I know of Martin Gansten's book on Nadi Astrology. > > Thanks for any references. > > Tracy Coleman > Colorado College From tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU Wed May 4 13:42:12 2011 From: tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU (Tracy Coleman) Date: Wed, 04 May 11 13:42:12 +0000 Subject: Indian Astrology Message-ID: <161227092396.23782.5074735126999682213.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 409 Lines: 11 Indologists-- I have a student (from New Delhi, actually) who is interested in writing his undergraduate thesis on Astrology. I would appreciate your bibliographic suggestions, since I'm not sure how much material will be accessible to him (in English or Hindi) that is not overly technical. I know of Martin Gansten's book on Nadi Astrology. Thanks for any references. Tracy Coleman Colorado College From himal.trikha at UNIVIE.AC.AT Wed May 4 14:13:16 2011 From: himal.trikha at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Himal Trikha) Date: Wed, 04 May 11 16:13:16 +0200 Subject: Indian Astrology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092398.23782.7474052595889278499.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 668 Lines: 25 Am 04.05.2011 15:42, schrieb Tracy Coleman: > Indologists-- > > I have a student (from New Delhi, actually) who is interested in writing his undergraduate thesis on Astrology. I would appreciate your bibliographic suggestions, since I'm not sure how much material will be accessible to him (in English or Hindi) that is not overly technical. I know of Martin Gansten's book on Nadi Astrology. > > Thanks for any references. > > Tracy Coleman > Colorado College Dear Tracy Coleman, the best book I have seen on this topic so far was David Pingree's "The Yavanajataka of Sphujidhvaja", Harvard Oriental Series, 1978. With best regards Himal Trikha From venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM Wed May 4 11:35:40 2011 From: venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM (venetia ansell) Date: Wed, 04 May 11 17:05:40 +0530 Subject: Sanskrit Buddhist theatre Message-ID: <161227092393.23782.13441519389426746692.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 449 Lines: 11 Hello everybody, A friend is doing some work on the Buddhist theatre tradition. Can anyone recommend some good literature on the topic? I have already referred her to Michael Hahn's Joy for the World, a translation of Candragomin's Lokananda. Thank you very much. Venetia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU Thu May 5 19:13:14 2011 From: tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU (Tracy Coleman) Date: Thu, 05 May 11 19:13:14 +0000 Subject: Indian Astrology In-Reply-To: <4DC15EFC.7080006@univie.ac.at> Message-ID: <161227092404.23782.2877867706409818101.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 322 Lines: 4 Thanks to so many people on RISA and INDOLOGY who responded to my query about Astrology, both on- and off-list. Some generously sent entire bibliographies. I will definitely compile a list of all these references and send it out to both listservs -- *after* the academic year ends! Regards to All. --Tracy Coleman From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Fri May 6 10:55:02 2011 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Fri, 06 May 11 06:55:02 -0400 Subject: Text request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092413.23782.4435690234269552221.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1107 Lines: 28 Hello Anna, I have a pdf file of this text (Vasantarajasakuna) that I downloaded from some source that I can no longer identify. It is 34mb. If you are unable to find a download link or a library copy, contact me and I can find some way of getting that pdf to you. Best, Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Anna kav [aneshvari at GMAIL.COM] Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:06 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Text request Dear members of the list, I need to find a copy of Sanskrit text '?akun?r?ava' = '?akuna' of Vasantar?ja (11 century) for my master's theses. The text was published 1940, Mumb?nagara, 1963, Bombay, reprinted 1987, Mumba? . If anyone has access to an electronic version, please share the link. Or may be it can be ordered from a library. Thank you Anna Kavaleuskaya Copenhagen University From ocattedra at YAHOO.COM.AR Fri May 6 15:32:11 2011 From: ocattedra at YAHOO.COM.AR (olivia cattedra) Date: Fri, 06 May 11 08:32:11 -0700 Subject: Book Announcement Message-ID: <161227092426.23782.10092382794425543865.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 624 Lines: 16 Dear colleagues With pleasure I inform you that has been re edited my Sanskrit-Spanish translation of Sankara Upadesas?hasr?, with introduction, notes, and a bibliographic? up to date: Sankara, El Tratado de las Mil Ense?anzas, Upadesas?hasr?, Olivia Cattedra (trad.) EUDEM, 250pp., ? ISBN 978-987-1371-68-6, It has-been published by the National University of Mar del Plata, Argentina, and it is available at Eudem: rrppeudem @gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Fri May 6 13:31:04 2011 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Fri, 06 May 11 09:31:04 -0400 Subject: Text request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092423.23782.17587417714706414992.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 925 Lines: 28 Here is the link to download this text: http://www.archive.org/details/12812vasantaraaj035838mbp Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Anna kav [aneshvari at GMAIL.COM] Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:06 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Text request Dear members of the list, I need to find a copy of Sanskrit text '?akun?r?ava' = '?akuna' of Vasantar?ja (11 century) for my master's theses. The text was published 1940, Mumb?nagara, 1963, Bombay, reprinted 1987, Mumba? . If anyone has access to an electronic version, please share the link. Or may be it can be ordered from a library. Thank you Anna Kavaleuskaya Copenhagen University From fmgerety at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Fri May 6 15:52:49 2011 From: fmgerety at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Finnian Moore Gerety) Date: Fri, 06 May 11 11:52:49 -0400 Subject: Tracing a mantra Message-ID: <161227092430.23782.14791592478838794433.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 460 Lines: 21 Hello Colleagues-- I am trying to find the provenance of this mantra: lok?? samast?? sukhino bhavantu It is quite popular but I have not seen it quoted with attribution. Yours, Finn Finnian Moore Gerety Doctoral Candidate, Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aneshvari at GMAIL.COM Fri May 6 10:06:07 2011 From: aneshvari at GMAIL.COM (Anna kav) Date: Fri, 06 May 11 12:06:07 +0200 Subject: Text request Message-ID: <161227092409.23782.10703961946724250971.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 563 Lines: 16 Dear members of the list, I need to find a copy of Sanskrit text '?akun?r?ava' = '?akuna' of Vasantar?ja (11 century) for my master's theses. The text was published 1940, Mumb?nagara, 1963, Bombay, reprinted 1987, Mumba? . If anyone has access to an electronic version, please share the link. Or may be it can be ordered from a library. Thank you Anna Kavaleuskaya Copenhagen University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From manufrancis at GMAIL.COM Fri May 6 11:57:27 2011 From: manufrancis at GMAIL.COM (Emmanuel Francis) Date: Fri, 06 May 11 13:57:27 +0200 Subject: Eighth International Workshop On Tamil Epigraphy Message-ID: <161227092416.23782.11896086812260224115.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 298 Lines: 14 Dear colleagues, Please find under the following link the announcement for the Eighth International Workshop On Tamil Epigraphy that will be held next July in India: http://www.iran-inde.cnrs.fr/spip.php?article392&lang=en With best wishes. E. Francis, Centre for South Asian Studies, Paris From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Fri May 6 12:05:26 2011 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Fri, 06 May 11 14:05:26 +0200 Subject: Reminder: consideration of applications will begin soon for PhD/Post-doc positions Message-ID: <161227092419.23782.17559426915221861675.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7364 Lines: 199 dear Colleagues, This is just a reminder that consideration will begin soon for applications for 2 positions--PhD and/or Post-doc-- as mentioned in the announcement which I sent earlier, and repeat below. We welcome any and all qualified applicants! Thanks for spreading the word--Jonathan Silk *************************** PhD Student/Post-Doctoral Fellow Positions (11-081) Faculty of Humanities PhD Student/Post-Doctoral Fellow Positions in Buddhism and Social Justice: Doctrine, Ideology and Discrimination in Tension Vacancy number: 11-081 The Leiden University Institute for Area Studies (LIAS) of the Faculty of Humanities at Leiden University invites applications for two full-time positions (PhD student and/or Post-doctoral Fellow) in the NWO-funded project "Buddhism and Social Justice: Doctrine, Ideology and Discrimination in Tension," headed by Prof. dr. Jonathan Silk. Initial appointment will be from September 2011 or as soon as possible thereafter. Since its foundation in 1575, Leiden University, with around 17,000 students and 4,000 staff, has built an internationally recognized record of excellence in teaching and research. The Faculty of Humanities consists of the Institutes for Area Studies, Creative & Performing Arts, Cultural Disciplines, History, Linguistics, Philosophy, and Religious Studies. It has about 4,500 students and 900 staff from around the world. The faculty offers about 30 BA and 45 MA programs. The Graduate School has an annual output of about 50 PhDs. The Leiden University Institute for Area Studies ( http://www.hum.leiden.edu/lias/), which comprises the Schools of Asian Studies and Middle Eastern Studies, is committed to the integration of disciplinary and regional-historical perspectives, and has as its aim the advancement of teaching and research of Area Studies at Leiden University and in the wider academic community. Area specializations in Asian Studies include Chinese, Japanese, Korean, South- & Southeast Asian, and Tibetan Studies. Project description Buddhism is widely perceived to be, and Buddhist sources themselves promote the tradition as, a philosophy of liberation. Yet Buddhist societies, both ancient and modern, not only evidence, but indeed seem to promote, social inequalities. The project 'Buddhism and Social Justice' explores the inner tensions in Buddhist cultures between inherited core values and social realities. The project revolves around a core investigation of slavery and caste in India, with current collaborators also investigating slavery in Korea and monastic economy in Tibet, approached through text-historical, historical and a socio-anthropological methods. The synergy between subprojects lies in the question of how Buddhist ways of thinking and acting inform and structure historically Buddhist Asian societies, and how, correspondingly, Buddhist ideologies and dogmas were transformed in historical contexts. This study seeks therefore to uncover the links between the ancient and the modern and the theoretical and the real-world, thereby leading both to a deeper appreciation of how religious systems function in societies in general, and to a more nuanced appreciation of the dynamics of historically Buddhist societies in general, particularly with respect to questions of social justice. For the available positions we seek scholars interested in investigating some aspect of Buddhism and Social Justice, broadly conceived. Because the starting point of the project is Buddhism, rather than Social Justice per se, familiarity with the history, doctrine and relevant original languages of Buddhist traditions is essential. Tasks for PhD candidates: - Participation in local research meetings and PhD teaching; - The writing of a PhD dissertation; - Helping to organize a conference in the framework of the research project; - Presenting papers at international conferences; - Publishing research results in the form of (an) article(s). Requirements - A (Research) MA degree in Buddhist Studies or in a related field with a strong Buddhist Studies component; exceptionally qualified students with a BA are also encouraged to apply; - Knowledge of the relevant language(s); - Ability to work both independently and as part of a team; - Excellent skills in English. Post-Doc applicants should have a demonstrably excellent academic track record in Buddhist Studies, and hold a PhD in Buddhist Studies or a related field, or its equivalent. They should have an excellent command of English and be prepared to present their research results in English. In addition to research, post-doc fellows will teach a small number of courses on topics within their area of specialization, and assist in guiding the PhD students. Conditions of employment The position of Ph.D. student is temporary for maximally four years of full-time appointment, and with an initial nine-month probationary period. The position of the Post-doctoral fellow is temporary, max. three years with a full-time appointment, and with an initial nine-month probationary period. The salary is determined in accordance with the current scales as set out in the collective labour agreement for the Dutch universities (CAO): Ph.D. fellow: min. ? 2.042,- max. ? 2.612,- gross per month, with additional holiday and end-of-year bonuses. Postdoctoral fellow: min. ? 2.379, max. ? 4.374, , with additional holiday and end-of-year bonuses. Candidates from outside the Netherlands may be eligible for a substantial tax break. Information For more information about the position please contact Prof. dr. J.A Silk, tel. +31-71-527-2510, email *j.a.silk at hum.leidenuniv.nl*. Please note that * applications* should not be sent directly to Prof. Silk; see the address below. Application PhD candidates please send your application (in English), including: *** a cover letter stating your motivation for this position, *** a CV, *** copies of your academic transcripts, *** an English writing sample, *** two letters of reference. Post-doc candidates please send your application (in English), including: *** a cover letter stating your motivation for this position, *** a CV, *** copies of your academic transcripts, *** a copy of your PhD thesis and other relevant publications, *** three letters of reference. Review of applications will commence by 15 May 2011 and continue until the position is filled or this call is closed. Please *send your application* electronically, indicating the vacancy number to: vacatureslias at hum.leidenuniv.nl All application materials should be sent in pdf format. If it is not possible for you to submit an electronic application, you may mail your materials, citing the vacancy number, to: M. van Asperen Leiden University P&O FGW PO Box 9515 2300 RA Leiden The Netherlands A telephone (or Skype) interview may be part of the selection procedure. -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martin.gansten at PBHOME.SE Fri May 6 20:06:09 2011 From: martin.gansten at PBHOME.SE (Martin Gansten) Date: Fri, 06 May 11 22:06:09 +0200 Subject: Sanskrit metres In-Reply-To: <4DC178B2.3080002@virginia.edu> Message-ID: <161227092433.23782.15739269382861120120.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 285 Lines: 9 This may be a very basic question, but I would appreciate any reference to discussions of the distribution of metres in classical Sanskrit literature: which metres (apart from ?loka) have been more common or popular in which contexts, genres, epochs and regions? Martin Gansten From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Fri May 6 20:08:21 2011 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Fri, 06 May 11 22:08:21 +0200 Subject: Tracing a mantra In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092436.23782.2594326444417337966.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 829 Lines: 30 Am 06.05.2011 um 17:52 schrieb Finnian Moore Gerety: > I am trying to find the provenance of this mantra: > > lok?? samast?? sukhino bhavantu > > It is quite popular but I have not seen it quoted with attribution. That is part of a verse: svasti praj?bhya? parip?layant?? ny?yena m?rge?a mah?? mah?p?? | gobr?hma?ebhya? ?ubham astu nitya? lok?? samast?? sukhino bhavantu ??nti?, ??nti?, ??nti? I don't know where it occurs first. But it must be earlier than the 18th century, at least. Because the verse is cited in a report of the Lutheran missionaries in Tranquebar published in 1742, see A. Weber: Eine angebliche Bearbeitung des Yajurveda, in: ZDMG 7 (1853), p. 235-248, esp. 248. Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn From corinnawessels at YAHOO.DE Sat May 7 12:41:46 2011 From: corinnawessels at YAHOO.DE (Corinna Wessels-Mevissen) Date: Sat, 07 May 11 13:41:46 +0100 Subject: Cidambaram=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81h=C4=81tmya_-_missing_Adhy=C4=81yas?= Message-ID: <161227092439.23782.4791848761779816227.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 511 Lines: 14 Dear Indologists, Could anyone of you share with me Adhy?yas 17 and 18 of the Cidambaram?h?tmya or direct me where to find them? The copy of the 1971 edition I have received through interlending service (the only accessible library copy in Germany) is missing these. I would be very grateful indeed. Corinna Wessels-Mevissen Berlin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Sat May 7 20:49:54 2011 From: kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Birgit Kellner) Date: Sat, 07 May 11 22:49:54 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_An_=C4=81malak=C4=AB_in_the_palm_of_th_e_hand?= In-Reply-To: <1863048.864471304212677720.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> Message-ID: <161227092443.23782.13084270960251417954.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 9249 Lines: 222 Reading once more through this interesting thread, I was just wondering: Schmidt's Nachtr?ge to the Petersburg Dictionary reports ?malaka in the meaning "rock crystal". Two passages in Somadevas?ri's Ya?astilaka (K?vyam?l? vol. 70) are given as evidence (vol. II 28,4 and 209,6; this is available at http://www.dli.ernet.in/). Not too much evidence, but there might be more, and it might have been overlooked so far, who knows. In an earlier message, for instance, Lance Cousins cited a passage from the older ??k? to the Abhidhamm?vat?ra (final p?da of Abhidh-av v. 181), where the ?malaka is compared to a clear gem. The basic text has "hatthagat?malak? viya honti"; the ??k? then runs: *hatthagat?* hatthapavi??h? *?malak? viya* suddhama?ik? viya honti. One could theoretically interpret this passage in two ways: - the ?malaka-fruit is seen, and the clarity of seeing the ?malaka is further illustrated by the example of a clear gem. - the word ?malaka here means "rock-crystal", and suddhama?ik? is then just an explanatory gloss on it. So one might ask whether there's any further unequivocal evidence that ?malaka was used in the meaning "rock-crystal" in P?li or Sanskrit. And if that were the case, Tibetan interpretations appealing to translucency would appear less outrageous than they initially might have seeemed. One context where the ?malaka-in-your-palm-example features is the discussion of yogic perception in Buddhist epistemological literature. See Dharmottara's Ny?yabindu??k? ad Ny?yabindu 1.11 (cited according to p. 69,1f. from Dalsukhbhai Malvania's edition of the Dharmottaraprad?pa): karatal?malakavad bh?vyam?nasya arthasya yad dar?ana? tad yogina? pratyak?am | tad dhi sphu??bham | Roughly: "Yogic perception is the seeing of an object that is contemplated upon like an ?malaka in one's hand, for it has a clear appearance." The canonical Tibetan translation, Derge 4231 (We 44a3), here translates ?malaka as ?el sgo? (also attested as a translation of sph??ika accordng to Negi's dictionary). So these translators definitely understood ?malaka in the meaning "rock crystal". On the face of it, the rock crystal makes in this particlar context better sense than the myrobalan fruit. The idea is that the yogin contemplates an object, which in the process becomes clear and vivid to him, as clear and vivid as a piece of rock-crystal in one's hand. More precisely: the rock-crystal as a thing exemplifies clarity and vividness more directly than the myrobalan fruit. And now, I suppose, one would have to look closer at the finer structure of ?malaka-similes. Is something said to be as self-evident as the SEEING of the ?malaka in one's hand? What is the role of the ?malaka being placed in one's hand? (I suppose: the object is close to the observer, and so this proximity would further accentuate the self-evidence.) Does the comparison attach to features of the ?malaka as such? Are there any features of the ?malaka that make it clearer in your hand than other fruits? (Colour?) Any commentarial explanations of this? Maybe the example underwent some changes (in Sanskritic traditions or between Sanskrit and Tibetan, who knows). Epistemological discussions of yogic perception, for instance, might in the eyes of some interpreters have called for a sharper analogy that highlights the clarity of an object-appearance - and makes the object itself clear and vivid and (coincidentally?) translucent. Best regards, Birgit Kellner ________________________________________ Von: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] im Auftrag von Peter Szanto [peter.szanto at MERTON.OX.AC.UK] Gesendet: Samstag, 30. April 2011 21:39 An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] an ?malak? in the palm of th e hand Dear readers, While I do not want to commit myself to any of the siddh?ntas expressed here, I believe these two passages (sadly, surviving only in Tibetan) merit consideration: T?h. 1373 *?a?a?gayogapa?jik? of Avadh?t?p?da (244r) de ltar mthong ba'i rnal 'byor ba de ni rnam pa thams cad mkhyen pa'i sku des ni khams gsum ma lus pa skyu ru ra lag mthil du bzhag pa bzhin du thams cad sa ler mkhyen pa'o || chu nang nyi ltar rab snang ba || dri ma med pa'i sna tshogs mdog | rnam pa kun du rang gi sems || gzhan gyi sems min rang gi sems || rang gi sems yin bde ba nyid || gzhan gyi sems min bde ba yin || yul dang rnam par bral ba yin || rang bde yid kyi nyams myong ba || gzhan gyi sems bde chen po'i phyir || bde ba bstan du mi btub bo || zhes 'byung ngo || T?h. 1415 Vajra??kaviv?ti of Bhavabha??a (82v) rdo rje mig gis mthong bar 'gyur || zhes bya ba la rdo rje ni shin tu rno ba ste | gsal zhing dri ma med pa des mthong ba'o || ji ltar zhe na | lag tu shing tog bzhag pa bzhin te lag pa'i mthil na gnas pa'i skyu ru ra'i 'bras bu ltar ro || The `Tibetan idea' of transparency could have been induced by passages such as the first one (note that `sa ler' is ambivalent, it can mean both `entirely' and `clearly'). Well, by using the word induced I guess I do find myself more in agreement with what Dominik Wujastyk wrote below. With best regards, Peter ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk [wujastyk at GMAIL.COM] Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 8:21 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] an ?malak? in the palm of the hand Dear Ryan, In my view, your Tibetan colleagues are simply wrong. Or else they are in receipt some odd tradition that has strayed far from the original meaning of the ?malaka-in-the-hand simile, and got lost on the way. The ?malaka/? is and was the Emblic myrobalan (Emblica officinalis, Gaertn.). There are many pictures on the web, and even one of some emblics in someone's hands: here. Emblics are a common fruit in South Asia, and have been so for over two millennia. The word "emblic" was very common in English amongst the British in India, as it was a well-known, fruit often consumed daily. Many references in Hobson-Jobson (who also asserts on good authorities that Skt. ?malaka is the origin of the name of the Malay city Malacca!). My subjective impression is that British Indian authors referred to emblics more or less as one might today refer to an apple. "Emblic" wasn't at all a rare word (or fruit). The simile is just, as you say, something totally obvious. Think, "as plain as an apple in the palm of your hand." I think we can just set aside all talk of transparency and inner structure. (I also think that the idea that something with an exterior can in some sense be explained by reference to its inner structure is probably a rather modern idea, and probably not Sanskritic at all. At the very least, it should be questioned, as a concept. Ask, with what vocabularly would such a concept be expressed in Sanskrit?) Best, Dominik On 29 April 2011 07:47, Ryan Damron > wrote: Dear all, I recently came across a reference to the ?malaki fruit in the Buddhist Mah?m?y?tantra and in its commentary, the Gu?avat? by Ratn?kara??nti. The citations are as follows: First from the root tantra, in Tibetan (there is no extant Sanskrit manuscript): lag tu skyu ru ra bzhag bzhin. Which Ratn?kara??nti glosses with: svahaste sthitamekam?malakam yathetyartha? I initially took this to mean simply that the referent was as clear to the subject as a fruit placed in one's own hand. However, two Tibetan colleagues both asserted that the ?malak? fruit, as understood in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition at least, is a translucent fruit which reveals its inner structure to the subject (not my personal experience with the contemporary version of Amalaki fruit). Thus for a situation to be "like an ?malak? fruit in one's own hand" means one is able to see the referent inside and out, that is, in totality. My question then is this: is this analogy common in Indic traditions and, more importantly, are there any known references to these properties of the ?malak? in Sanskrit works? Much thanks, Ryan Ryan Damron Graduate Student Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies University of California, Berkeley Am 01.05.2011 03:17, schrieb c.cicuzza at iol.it: > Dear All, > > one more example from the Pali literature transmitted in Siam: > > so pana mah?moggall?nathero yath? puriso ?malakaphala? gahetv? attano p??itale ?hapeti. > > Cf. Buddhap?dama?gala (ed. in Cicuzza, C., A Mirror Reflecting the Entire World, Bangkok and Lumbini 2011, p. 58). > > Best Regards, > > Claudio Cicuzza > > (Webster University) -- -------- Prof. Dr. Birgit Kellner Chair in Buddhist Studies Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context - Shifting Asymmetries in Cultural Flows" University of Heidelberg Karl Jaspers Centre Vossstra?e 2, Building 4400 D-69115 Heidelberg Phone: +49(0)6221 - 54 4301 Fax: +49(0)6221 - 54 4012 http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/en/home.html From kiepue at T-ONLINE.DE Sun May 8 06:01:27 2011 From: kiepue at T-ONLINE.DE (=?utf-8?Q?petra_kieffer-P=C3=BClz?=) Date: Sun, 08 May 11 08:01:27 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_An_=C4=81malak=C4=AB_in_the_palm__of_th_e_hand?= In-Reply-To: <4DC5B072.4080707@asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de> Message-ID: <161227092447.23782.2573275664848481391.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 10224 Lines: 156 Your remarks can be confirmed by a further reference from the P?li scriptures, where another example for crystal can be seen Vinayavinicchaya??k? II 527 (ca. 12/13th cent. AD) ... sabbe atth? hatthe ?malaka? viya karatale amala-ma?i-ratana? viya upa.t.t.hahantii p?ka?? bhavan? ti yojan?. natthi etassa malan ti (=) amala.m, amalam eva (=) ?malakan ti ma?i-ratana? vuccati. Best, Petra **************************************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz Wilhelm-K?lz-Strasse 2 99423 Weimar Tel. 03643/ 770 447 kiepue at t-online.de (priv.) petra.kieffer-puelz at adwmainz.de www.pali.adwmainz.de Am 07.05.2011 um 22:49 schrieb Birgit Kellner: > Reading once more through this interesting thread, I was just wondering: Schmidt's Nachtr?ge to the Petersburg Dictionary reports ?malaka in the meaning "rock crystal". Two passages in Somadevas?ri's Ya?astilaka (K?vyam?l? vol. 70) are given as evidence (vol. II 28,4 and 209,6; this is available at http://www.dli.ernet.in/). Not too much evidence, but there might be more, and it might have been overlooked so far, who knows. > > In an earlier message, for instance, Lance Cousins cited a passage from the older ??k? to the Abhidhamm?vat?ra (final p?da of Abhidh-av v. 181), where the ?malaka is compared to a clear gem. The basic text has "hatthagat?malak? viya honti"; the ??k? then runs: *hatthagat?* hatthapavi??h? *?malak? viya* suddhama?ik? viya honti. > > One could theoretically interpret this passage in two ways: > > - the ?malaka-fruit is seen, and the clarity of seeing the ?malaka is further illustrated by the example of a clear gem. > - the word ?malaka here means "rock-crystal", and suddhama?ik? is then just an explanatory gloss on it. > > So one might ask whether there's any further unequivocal evidence that ?malaka was used in the meaning "rock-crystal" in P?li or Sanskrit. And if that were the case, Tibetan interpretations appealing to translucency would appear less outrageous than they initially might have seeemed. > > One context where the ?malaka-in-your-palm-example features is the discussion of yogic perception in Buddhist epistemological literature. See Dharmottara's Ny?yabindu??k? ad Ny?yabindu 1.11 (cited according to p. 69,1f. from Dalsukhbhai Malvania's edition of the Dharmottaraprad?pa): karatal?malakavad bh?vyam?nasya arthasya yad dar?ana? tad yogina? pratyak?am | tad dhi sphu??bham | Roughly: "Yogic perception is the seeing of an object that is contemplated upon like an ?malaka in one's hand, for it has a clear appearance." > > The canonical Tibetan translation, Derge 4231 (We 44a3), here translates ?malaka as ?el sgo? (also attested as a translation of sph??ika accordng to Negi's dictionary). So these translators definitely understood ?malaka in the meaning "rock crystal". > > On the face of it, the rock crystal makes in this particlar context better sense than the myrobalan fruit. The idea is that the yogin contemplates an object, which in the process becomes clear and vivid to him, as clear and vivid as a piece of rock-crystal in one's hand. More precisely: the rock-crystal as a thing exemplifies clarity and vividness more directly than the myrobalan fruit. > > And now, I suppose, one would have to look closer at the finer structure of ?malaka-similes. Is something said to be as self-evident as the SEEING of the ?malaka in one's hand? What is the role of the ?malaka being placed in one's hand? (I suppose: the object is close to the observer, and so this proximity would further accentuate the self-evidence.) Does the comparison attach to features of the ?malaka as such? Are there any features of the ?malaka that make it clearer in your hand than other fruits? (Colour?) Any commentarial explanations of this? > > Maybe the example underwent some changes (in Sanskritic traditions or between Sanskrit and Tibetan, who knows). Epistemological discussions of yogic perception, for instance, might in the eyes of some interpreters have called for a sharper analogy that highlights the clarity of an object-appearance - and makes the object itself clear and vivid and (coincidentally?) translucent. > > Best regards, > > Birgit Kellner > > > > > ________________________________________ > Von: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] im Auftrag von Peter Szanto [peter.szanto at MERTON.OX.AC.UK] > Gesendet: Samstag, 30. April 2011 21:39 > An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] an ?malak? in the palm of th e hand > > Dear readers, > > While I do not want to commit myself to any of the siddh?ntas expressed here, I believe these two passages (sadly, surviving only in Tibetan) merit consideration: > > T?h. 1373 *?a?a?gayogapa?jik? of Avadh?t?p?da (244r) > > de ltar mthong ba'i rnal 'byor ba de ni rnam pa thams cad mkhyen pa'i sku des ni khams gsum ma lus pa skyu ru ra lag mthil du bzhag pa bzhin du thams cad sa ler mkhyen pa'o || chu nang nyi ltar rab snang ba || dri ma med pa'i sna tshogs mdog | rnam pa kun du rang gi sems || gzhan gyi sems min rang gi sems || rang gi sems yin bde ba nyid || gzhan gyi sems min bde ba yin || yul dang rnam par bral ba yin || rang bde yid kyi nyams myong ba || gzhan gyi sems bde chen po'i phyir || bde ba bstan du mi btub bo || zhes 'byung ngo || > > T?h. 1415 Vajra??kaviv?ti of Bhavabha??a (82v) > > rdo rje mig gis mthong bar 'gyur || zhes bya ba la rdo rje ni shin tu rno ba ste | gsal zhing dri ma med pa des mthong ba'o || ji ltar zhe na | lag tu shing tog bzhag pa bzhin te lag pa'i mthil na gnas pa'i skyu ru ra'i 'bras bu ltar ro || > > The `Tibetan idea' of transparency could have been induced by passages such as the first one (note that `sa ler' is ambivalent, it can mean both `entirely' and `clearly'). Well, by using the word induced I guess I do find myself more in agreement with what Dominik Wujastyk wrote below. > > With best regards, > > Peter > > ________________________________________ > From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk [wujastyk at GMAIL.COM] > Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 8:21 PM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] an ?malak? in the palm of the hand > > Dear Ryan, > > In my view, your Tibetan colleagues are simply wrong. Or else they are in receipt some odd tradition that has strayed far from the original meaning of the ?malaka-in-the-hand simile, and got lost on the way. > > The ?malaka/? is and was the Emblic myrobalan (Emblica officinalis, Gaertn.). There are many pictures on the web, and even one of some emblics in someone's hands: here. > > Emblics are a common fruit in South Asia, and have been so for over two millennia. The word "emblic" was very common in English amongst the British in India, as it was a well-known, fruit often consumed daily. Many references in Hobson-Jobson (who also asserts on good authorities that Skt. ?malaka is the origin of the name of the Malay city Malacca!). My subjective impression is that British Indian authors referred to emblics more or less as one might today refer to an apple. "Emblic" wasn't at all a rare word (or fruit). > > The simile is just, as you say, something totally obvious. Think, "as plain as an apple in the palm of your hand." > > I think we can just set aside all talk of transparency and inner structure. (I also think that the idea that something with an exterior can in some sense be explained by reference to its inner structure is probably a rather modern idea, and probably not Sanskritic at all. At the very least, it should be questioned, as a concept. Ask, with what vocabularly would such a concept be expressed in Sanskrit?) > > Best, > > Dominik > > > On 29 April 2011 07:47, Ryan Damron > wrote: > Dear all, > > I recently came across a reference to the ?malaki fruit in the Buddhist Mah?m?y?tantra and in its commentary, the Gu?avat? by Ratn?kara??nti. The citations are as follows: > > First from the root tantra, in Tibetan (there is no extant Sanskrit manuscript): lag tu skyu ru ra bzhag bzhin. > > Which Ratn?kara??nti glosses with: svahaste sthitamekam?malakam yathetyartha? > > I initially took this to mean simply that the referent was as clear to the subject as a fruit placed in one's own hand. However, two Tibetan colleagues both asserted that the ?malak? fruit, as understood in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition at least, is a translucent fruit which reveals its inner structure to the subject (not my personal experience with the contemporary version of Amalaki fruit). Thus for a situation to be "like an ?malak? fruit in one's own hand" means one is able to see the referent inside and out, that is, in totality. My question then is this: is this analogy common in Indic traditions and, more importantly, are there any known references to these properties of the ?malak? in Sanskrit works? > > Much thanks, > > Ryan > > Ryan Damron > Graduate Student > Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies > University of California, Berkeley > > > > Am 01.05.2011 03:17, schrieb c.cicuzza at iol.it: >> Dear All, >> >> one more example from the Pali literature transmitted in Siam: >> >> so pana mah?moggall?nathero yath? puriso ?malakaphala? gahetv? attano p??itale ?hapeti. >> >> Cf. Buddhap?dama?gala (ed. in Cicuzza, C., A Mirror Reflecting the Entire World, Bangkok and Lumbini 2011, p. 58). >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Claudio Cicuzza >> >> (Webster University) > > > -- > -------- > > Prof. Dr. Birgit Kellner > Chair in Buddhist Studies > Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context - Shifting Asymmetries in Cultural Flows" > University of Heidelberg > Karl Jaspers Centre > Vossstra?e 2, Building 4400 > D-69115 Heidelberg > Phone: +49(0)6221 - 54 4301 > Fax: +49(0)6221 - 54 4012 > http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/en/home.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Sun May 8 16:11:09 2011 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Sun, 08 May 11 09:11:09 -0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_An_=C4=81malak=C4=AB_in_the_palm__of_th_e_hand?= In-Reply-To: <4DC5B072.4080707@asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de> Message-ID: <161227092465.23782.11371631973642613414.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 10644 Lines: 156 The still-current Tamil proverb u??a?kai nellik ka?i p?l, like the Sanskrit hast?malaka, is used to suggest something is clear and obvious. In Akananuru 5 (1-3 cent CE?) the nelli fruit (ka?i means "ripe fruit") is compared to crystal (pa?i?ku -- pa?i?kattu a??a pal k?y nelli). Here is Jean-Luc's earlier contribution to the list: > Greetings from Pondicherry, > > the comparison is apparently also found in the Teevaaram, > a collection of Tamil hymns to Siva, > possibly dating back to the 7th and 8th centuries. > > See: > "http://www.ifpindia.org/ecrire/upload/digital_database/Site/Digital_Tevaram/U_TEV/VMS5_072.HTM#p2" > > > The text reads: > "kaiyil aamalakak kan_i okkumee" > (teevaaram, 5-72, 2) > > The normal Tamil name of that fruit is "nelli" > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (EFEO/CNRS) It seems to me this makes it clear that the Sanskrit texts refer to the fruit, not rock crystal. George Hart On May 7, 2011, at 1:49 PM, Birgit Kellner wrote: > Reading once more through this interesting thread, I was just wondering: Schmidt's Nachtr?ge to the Petersburg Dictionary reports ?malaka in the meaning "rock crystal". Two passages in Somadevas?ri's Ya?astilaka (K?vyam?l? vol. 70) are given as evidence (vol. II 28,4 and 209,6; this is available at http://www.dli.ernet.in/). Not too much evidence, but there might be more, and it might have been overlooked so far, who knows. > > In an earlier message, for instance, Lance Cousins cited a passage from the older ??k? to the Abhidhamm?vat?ra (final p?da of Abhidh-av v. 181), where the ?malaka is compared to a clear gem. The basic text has "hatthagat?malak? viya honti"; the ??k? then runs: *hatthagat?* hatthapavi??h? *?malak? viya* suddhama?ik? viya honti. > > One could theoretically interpret this passage in two ways: > > - the ?malaka-fruit is seen, and the clarity of seeing the ?malaka is further illustrated by the example of a clear gem. > - the word ?malaka here means "rock-crystal", and suddhama?ik? is then just an explanatory gloss on it. > > So one might ask whether there's any further unequivocal evidence that ?malaka was used in the meaning "rock-crystal" in P?li or Sanskrit. And if that were the case, Tibetan interpretations appealing to translucency would appear less outrageous than they initially might have seeemed. > > One context where the ?malaka-in-your-palm-example features is the discussion of yogic perception in Buddhist epistemological literature. See Dharmottara's Ny?yabindu??k? ad Ny?yabindu 1.11 (cited according to p. 69,1f. from Dalsukhbhai Malvania's edition of the Dharmottaraprad?pa): karatal?malakavad bh?vyam?nasya arthasya yad dar?ana? tad yogina? pratyak?am | tad dhi sphu??bham | Roughly: "Yogic perception is the seeing of an object that is contemplated upon like an ?malaka in one's hand, for it has a clear appearance." > > The canonical Tibetan translation, Derge 4231 (We 44a3), here translates ?malaka as ?el sgo? (also attested as a translation of sph??ika accordng to Negi's dictionary). So these translators definitely understood ?malaka in the meaning "rock crystal". > > On the face of it, the rock crystal makes in this particlar context better sense than the myrobalan fruit. The idea is that the yogin contemplates an object, which in the process becomes clear and vivid to him, as clear and vivid as a piece of rock-crystal in one's hand. More precisely: the rock-crystal as a thing exemplifies clarity and vividness more directly than the myrobalan fruit. > > And now, I suppose, one would have to look closer at the finer structure of ?malaka-similes. Is something said to be as self-evident as the SEEING of the ?malaka in one's hand? What is the role of the ?malaka being placed in one's hand? (I suppose: the object is close to the observer, and so this proximity would further accentuate the self-evidence.) Does the comparison attach to features of the ?malaka as such? Are there any features of the ?malaka that make it clearer in your hand than other fruits? (Colour?) Any commentarial explanations of this? > > Maybe the example underwent some changes (in Sanskritic traditions or between Sanskrit and Tibetan, who knows). Epistemological discussions of yogic perception, for instance, might in the eyes of some interpreters have called for a sharper analogy that highlights the clarity of an object-appearance - and makes the object itself clear and vivid and (coincidentally?) translucent. > > Best regards, > > Birgit Kellner > > > > > ________________________________________ > Von: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] im Auftrag von Peter Szanto [peter.szanto at MERTON.OX.AC.UK] > Gesendet: Samstag, 30. April 2011 21:39 > An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] an ?malak? in the palm of th e hand > > Dear readers, > > While I do not want to commit myself to any of the siddh?ntas expressed here, I believe these two passages (sadly, surviving only in Tibetan) merit consideration: > > T?h. 1373 *?a?a?gayogapa?jik? of Avadh?t?p?da (244r) > > de ltar mthong ba'i rnal 'byor ba de ni rnam pa thams cad mkhyen pa'i sku des ni khams gsum ma lus pa skyu ru ra lag mthil du bzhag pa bzhin du thams cad sa ler mkhyen pa'o || chu nang nyi ltar rab snang ba || dri ma med pa'i sna tshogs mdog | rnam pa kun du rang gi sems || gzhan gyi sems min rang gi sems || rang gi sems yin bde ba nyid || gzhan gyi sems min bde ba yin || yul dang rnam par bral ba yin || rang bde yid kyi nyams myong ba || gzhan gyi sems bde chen po'i phyir || bde ba bstan du mi btub bo || zhes 'byung ngo || > > T?h. 1415 Vajra??kaviv?ti of Bhavabha??a (82v) > > rdo rje mig gis mthong bar 'gyur || zhes bya ba la rdo rje ni shin tu rno ba ste | gsal zhing dri ma med pa des mthong ba'o || ji ltar zhe na | lag tu shing tog bzhag pa bzhin te lag pa'i mthil na gnas pa'i skyu ru ra'i 'bras bu ltar ro || > > The `Tibetan idea' of transparency could have been induced by passages such as the first one (note that `sa ler' is ambivalent, it can mean both `entirely' and `clearly'). Well, by using the word induced I guess I do find myself more in agreement with what Dominik Wujastyk wrote below. > > With best regards, > > Peter > > ________________________________________ > From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk [wujastyk at GMAIL.COM] > Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 8:21 PM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] an ?malak? in the palm of the hand > > Dear Ryan, > > In my view, your Tibetan colleagues are simply wrong. Or else they are in receipt some odd tradition that has strayed far from the original meaning of the ?malaka-in-the-hand simile, and got lost on the way. > > The ?malaka/? is and was the Emblic myrobalan (Emblica officinalis, Gaertn.). There are many pictures on the web, and even one of some emblics in someone's hands: here. > > Emblics are a common fruit in South Asia, and have been so for over two millennia. The word "emblic" was very common in English amongst the British in India, as it was a well-known, fruit often consumed daily. Many references in Hobson-Jobson (who also asserts on good authorities that Skt. ?malaka is the origin of the name of the Malay city Malacca!). My subjective impression is that British Indian authors referred to emblics more or less as one might today refer to an apple. "Emblic" wasn't at all a rare word (or fruit). > > The simile is just, as you say, something totally obvious. Think, "as plain as an apple in the palm of your hand." > > I think we can just set aside all talk of transparency and inner structure. (I also think that the idea that something with an exterior can in some sense be explained by reference to its inner structure is probably a rather modern idea, and probably not Sanskritic at all. At the very least, it should be questioned, as a concept. Ask, with what vocabularly would such a concept be expressed in Sanskrit?) > > Best, > > Dominik > > > On 29 April 2011 07:47, Ryan Damron > wrote: > Dear all, > > I recently came across a reference to the ?malaki fruit in the Buddhist Mah?m?y?tantra and in its commentary, the Gu?avat? by Ratn?kara??nti. The citations are as follows: > > First from the root tantra, in Tibetan (there is no extant Sanskrit manuscript): lag tu skyu ru ra bzhag bzhin. > > Which Ratn?kara??nti glosses with: svahaste sthitamekam?malakam yathetyartha? > > I initially took this to mean simply that the referent was as clear to the subject as a fruit placed in one's own hand. However, two Tibetan colleagues both asserted that the ?malak? fruit, as understood in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition at least, is a translucent fruit which reveals its inner structure to the subject (not my personal experience with the contemporary version of Amalaki fruit). Thus for a situation to be "like an ?malak? fruit in one's own hand" means one is able to see the referent inside and out, that is, in totality. My question then is this: is this analogy common in Indic traditions and, more importantly, are there any known references to these properties of the ?malak? in Sanskrit works? > > Much thanks, > > Ryan > > Ryan Damron > Graduate Student > Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies > University of California, Berkeley > > > > Am 01.05.2011 03:17, schrieb c.cicuzza at iol.it: >> Dear All, >> >> one more example from the Pali literature transmitted in Siam: >> >> so pana mah?moggall?nathero yath? puriso ?malakaphala? gahetv? attano p??itale ?hapeti. >> >> Cf. Buddhap?dama?gala (ed. in Cicuzza, C., A Mirror Reflecting the Entire World, Bangkok and Lumbini 2011, p. 58). >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Claudio Cicuzza >> >> (Webster University) > > > -- > -------- > > Prof. Dr. Birgit Kellner > Chair in Buddhist Studies > Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context - Shifting Asymmetries in Cultural Flows" > University of Heidelberg > Karl Jaspers Centre > Vossstra?e 2, Building 4400 > D-69115 Heidelberg > Phone: +49(0)6221 - 54 4301 > Fax: +49(0)6221 - 54 4012 > http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/en/home.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kiepue at T-ONLINE.DE Sun May 8 07:24:03 2011 From: kiepue at T-ONLINE.DE (=?utf-8?Q?petra_kieffer-P=C3=BClz?=) Date: Sun, 08 May 11 09:24:03 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_An_=C4=81malak=C4=AB_in_the_palm__of_th_e_hand?= In-Reply-To: <4DC5B072.4080707@asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de> Message-ID: <161227092451.23782.2656602081707028190.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 10086 Lines: 151 Addition: Margaret Cone in her Dictionary of Pali, Vol. 1, s.v. ?malaka-mutt? has "a kind of pearl from Sri Lanka" (reference to Sp 75,3), and s.v. ?malaka-va??amuttaratana "a kind of pearl (round as an ?malaka fruit?)" (reference Ja V 380,6), Petra **************************************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz Wilhelm-K?lz-Strasse 2 99423 Weimar Tel. 03643/ 770 447 kiepue at t-online.de (priv.) petra.kieffer-puelz at adwmainz.de www.pali.adwmainz.de Am 07.05.2011 um 22:49 schrieb Birgit Kellner: > Reading once more through this interesting thread, I was just wondering: Schmidt's Nachtr?ge to the Petersburg Dictionary reports ?malaka in the meaning "rock crystal". Two passages in Somadevas?ri's Ya?astilaka (K?vyam?l? vol. 70) are given as evidence (vol. II 28,4 and 209,6; this is available at http://www.dli.ernet.in/). Not too much evidence, but there might be more, and it might have been overlooked so far, who knows. > > In an earlier message, for instance, Lance Cousins cited a passage from the older ??k? to the Abhidhamm?vat?ra (final p?da of Abhidh-av v. 181), where the ?malaka is compared to a clear gem. The basic text has "hatthagat?malak? viya honti"; the ??k? then runs: *hatthagat?* hatthapavi??h? *?malak? viya* suddhama?ik? viya honti. > > One could theoretically interpret this passage in two ways: > > - the ?malaka-fruit is seen, and the clarity of seeing the ?malaka is further illustrated by the example of a clear gem. > - the word ?malaka here means "rock-crystal", and suddhama?ik? is then just an explanatory gloss on it. > > So one might ask whether there's any further unequivocal evidence that ?malaka was used in the meaning "rock-crystal" in P?li or Sanskrit. And if that were the case, Tibetan interpretations appealing to translucency would appear less outrageous than they initially might have seeemed. > > One context where the ?malaka-in-your-palm-example features is the discussion of yogic perception in Buddhist epistemological literature. See Dharmottara's Ny?yabindu??k? ad Ny?yabindu 1.11 (cited according to p. 69,1f. from Dalsukhbhai Malvania's edition of the Dharmottaraprad?pa): karatal?malakavad bh?vyam?nasya arthasya yad dar?ana? tad yogina? pratyak?am | tad dhi sphu??bham | Roughly: "Yogic perception is the seeing of an object that is contemplated upon like an ?malaka in one's hand, for it has a clear appearance." > > The canonical Tibetan translation, Derge 4231 (We 44a3), here translates ?malaka as ?el sgo? (also attested as a translation of sph??ika accordng to Negi's dictionary). So these translators definitely understood ?malaka in the meaning "rock crystal". > > On the face of it, the rock crystal makes in this particlar context better sense than the myrobalan fruit. The idea is that the yogin contemplates an object, which in the process becomes clear and vivid to him, as clear and vivid as a piece of rock-crystal in one's hand. More precisely: the rock-crystal as a thing exemplifies clarity and vividness more directly than the myrobalan fruit. > > And now, I suppose, one would have to look closer at the finer structure of ?malaka-similes. Is something said to be as self-evident as the SEEING of the ?malaka in one's hand? What is the role of the ?malaka being placed in one's hand? (I suppose: the object is close to the observer, and so this proximity would further accentuate the self-evidence.) Does the comparison attach to features of the ?malaka as such? Are there any features of the ?malaka that make it clearer in your hand than other fruits? (Colour?) Any commentarial explanations of this? > > Maybe the example underwent some changes (in Sanskritic traditions or between Sanskrit and Tibetan, who knows). Epistemological discussions of yogic perception, for instance, might in the eyes of some interpreters have called for a sharper analogy that highlights the clarity of an object-appearance - and makes the object itself clear and vivid and (coincidentally?) translucent. > > Best regards, > > Birgit Kellner > > > > > ________________________________________ > Von: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] im Auftrag von Peter Szanto [peter.szanto at MERTON.OX.AC.UK] > Gesendet: Samstag, 30. April 2011 21:39 > An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] an ?malak? in the palm of th e hand > > Dear readers, > > While I do not want to commit myself to any of the siddh?ntas expressed here, I believe these two passages (sadly, surviving only in Tibetan) merit consideration: > > T?h. 1373 *?a?a?gayogapa?jik? of Avadh?t?p?da (244r) > > de ltar mthong ba'i rnal 'byor ba de ni rnam pa thams cad mkhyen pa'i sku des ni khams gsum ma lus pa skyu ru ra lag mthil du bzhag pa bzhin du thams cad sa ler mkhyen pa'o || chu nang nyi ltar rab snang ba || dri ma med pa'i sna tshogs mdog | rnam pa kun du rang gi sems || gzhan gyi sems min rang gi sems || rang gi sems yin bde ba nyid || gzhan gyi sems min bde ba yin || yul dang rnam par bral ba yin || rang bde yid kyi nyams myong ba || gzhan gyi sems bde chen po'i phyir || bde ba bstan du mi btub bo || zhes 'byung ngo || > > T?h. 1415 Vajra??kaviv?ti of Bhavabha??a (82v) > > rdo rje mig gis mthong bar 'gyur || zhes bya ba la rdo rje ni shin tu rno ba ste | gsal zhing dri ma med pa des mthong ba'o || ji ltar zhe na | lag tu shing tog bzhag pa bzhin te lag pa'i mthil na gnas pa'i skyu ru ra'i 'bras bu ltar ro || > > The `Tibetan idea' of transparency could have been induced by passages such as the first one (note that `sa ler' is ambivalent, it can mean both `entirely' and `clearly'). Well, by using the word induced I guess I do find myself more in agreement with what Dominik Wujastyk wrote below. > > With best regards, > > Peter > > ________________________________________ > From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk [wujastyk at GMAIL.COM] > Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 8:21 PM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] an ?malak? in the palm of the hand > > Dear Ryan, > > In my view, your Tibetan colleagues are simply wrong. Or else they are in receipt some odd tradition that has strayed far from the original meaning of the ?malaka-in-the-hand simile, and got lost on the way. > > The ?malaka/? is and was the Emblic myrobalan (Emblica officinalis, Gaertn.). There are many pictures on the web, and even one of some emblics in someone's hands: here. > > Emblics are a common fruit in South Asia, and have been so for over two millennia. The word "emblic" was very common in English amongst the British in India, as it was a well-known, fruit often consumed daily. Many references in Hobson-Jobson (who also asserts on good authorities that Skt. ?malaka is the origin of the name of the Malay city Malacca!). My subjective impression is that British Indian authors referred to emblics more or less as one might today refer to an apple. "Emblic" wasn't at all a rare word (or fruit). > > The simile is just, as you say, something totally obvious. Think, "as plain as an apple in the palm of your hand." > > I think we can just set aside all talk of transparency and inner structure. (I also think that the idea that something with an exterior can in some sense be explained by reference to its inner structure is probably a rather modern idea, and probably not Sanskritic at all. At the very least, it should be questioned, as a concept. Ask, with what vocabularly would such a concept be expressed in Sanskrit?) > > Best, > > Dominik > > > On 29 April 2011 07:47, Ryan Damron > wrote: > Dear all, > > I recently came across a reference to the ?malaki fruit in the Buddhist Mah?m?y?tantra and in its commentary, the Gu?avat? by Ratn?kara??nti. The citations are as follows: > > First from the root tantra, in Tibetan (there is no extant Sanskrit manuscript): lag tu skyu ru ra bzhag bzhin. > > Which Ratn?kara??nti glosses with: svahaste sthitamekam?malakam yathetyartha? > > I initially took this to mean simply that the referent was as clear to the subject as a fruit placed in one's own hand. However, two Tibetan colleagues both asserted that the ?malak? fruit, as understood in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition at least, is a translucent fruit which reveals its inner structure to the subject (not my personal experience with the contemporary version of Amalaki fruit). Thus for a situation to be "like an ?malak? fruit in one's own hand" means one is able to see the referent inside and out, that is, in totality. My question then is this: is this analogy common in Indic traditions and, more importantly, are there any known references to these properties of the ?malak? in Sanskrit works? > > Much thanks, > > Ryan > > Ryan Damron > Graduate Student > Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies > University of California, Berkeley > > > > Am 01.05.2011 03:17, schrieb c.cicuzza at iol.it: >> Dear All, >> >> one more example from the Pali literature transmitted in Siam: >> >> so pana mah?moggall?nathero yath? puriso ?malakaphala? gahetv? attano p??itale ?hapeti. >> >> Cf. Buddhap?dama?gala (ed. in Cicuzza, C., A Mirror Reflecting the Entire World, Bangkok and Lumbini 2011, p. 58). >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Claudio Cicuzza >> >> (Webster University) > > > -- > -------- > > Prof. Dr. Birgit Kellner > Chair in Buddhist Studies > Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context - Shifting Asymmetries in Cultural Flows" > University of Heidelberg > Karl Jaspers Centre > Vossstra?e 2, Building 4400 > D-69115 Heidelberg > Phone: +49(0)6221 - 54 4301 > Fax: +49(0)6221 - 54 4012 > http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/en/home.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU Sun May 8 11:47:56 2011 From: slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU (Lindquist, Steven) Date: Sun, 08 May 11 11:47:56 +0000 Subject: Contact request: Ohnro Toru In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092458.23782.11290191894438428572.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 336 Lines: 18 I am trying to locate Ohnro Toru, Emeritus Professor of Burmese, University of Osaka. Information of any sort is greatly appreciated. Please email me off-list. Thanks, Steven -- Steven Lindquist, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Religious Studies Southern Methodist University Homepage: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui -- From hellwig7 at GMX.DE Sun May 8 11:31:45 2011 From: hellwig7 at GMX.DE (Oliver Hellwig) Date: Sun, 08 May 11 12:31:45 +0100 Subject: New version of the Digital Corpus of Sanskrit (DCS) Message-ID: <161227092455.23782.10733398339608999616.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3362 Lines: 70 Dear list, a major new release of the Digital Corpus of Sanskrit is now available at http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/. Apart from new texts, the website has the following new features: 1) Part of speech information for nouns; this means that you can search, for instance, for hRdaya in Instr. Sg. etc. 2) A user feedback function for unclear text passages and typos. Unclear text is marked in different colours in the corpus, and you may propose the correct solution in a web-based form. Your feedback is highly appreciated, and the names of contributors are included in future versions of the corpus (although anonymous contributions are also possible). 3) Most importantly, the corpus now contains unsupervised (= not manually corrected!) analyses of some of the shorter texts from the GRETIL directory. According to a recent study, we may expect about 5% of lexical errors for linguistically easy texts such as the epics and about 10% for more complicated ones with unusual, technical, or Buddhist terminology. I started with the shorter texts (approx. up to 50 kb) because each analysis process is computationally expensive, and my laptop soon showed signs of overexertion. References for words found in these texts are included in the detail pages for single words, just below the verbal and part-of-speech information. A link leads directly to the lines in the source files where the words are found. You may check these functions with a popular term such as rAjan. In addition, you find XML files that contain the results of the unsupervised analysis for each text. The complete list of these XML files is printed at the bottom of the page http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni- heidelberg.de/dcs/index.php?contents=corpus. This page also contains an XSL file (unsupervised.xsl) that can be used to display the XML files in a more appealing format. Please note that you have to include the line after the first tag () of each XML file to display the results in the intended manner. Stylesheet information will be included automatically in each file in the next release of the corpus. --- Some technicalities concerning unsupervised analysis, on which I would really appreciate off-list feedback --- a) XML files are currently a popular scheme for storing data in the Humanities. I am not an expert in this field. However, processing medium sized files phrases using XSL files was extremely slow on my computer. This is especially true for operations that use and similar constructions (e.g., used for searching lexemes). Performing a - based query with a file that contained the analyses of only five short texts from GRETIL took more than five minutes on my computer. Did I miss a point? Are there more effective ways for doing this, still using XML? b) As said above, my computer was overexerted when performing the analysis. Could some of you imagine to provide computing power, so that the large files (Puranas, phil. treatises, ...) could also be processed (32-bit systems preferred)? --- End technicalities --- Best regards, Oliver Hellwig ------------- PD Dr. Oliver Hellwig South-Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg Im Neuenheimer Feld 330 69120 Heidelberg, Germany From slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU Sun May 8 14:52:21 2011 From: slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU (Lindquist, Steven) Date: Sun, 08 May 11 14:52:21 +0000 Subject: [Correction] Contact request: Ohno Toru In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092462.23782.2630687996432365024.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 502 Lines: 26 My apologies for the misspelling of the first name. Corrected version below. On 5/8/11 6:47 AM, "Lindquist, Steven" wrote: >I am trying to locate Ohno Toru, Emeritus Professor of Burmese, >University of Osaka. Information of any sort is greatly appreciated. >Please email me off-list. > >Thanks, > >Steven > >-- >Steven Lindquist, Ph.D. >Assistant Professor >Department of Religious Studies >Southern Methodist University >Homepage: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui >-- > From viehbeck at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Mon May 9 09:28:45 2011 From: viehbeck at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Viehbeck, Markus) Date: Mon, 09 May 11 11:28:45 +0200 Subject: Heidelberg Summer Schools Message-ID: <161227092469.23782.4983318514279309087.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1408 Lines: 37 Dear colleagues, I would like to remind you about the continuation of the well-known tradition of the Heidelberg Summer Schools in 2011. As a new feature, this year's summer school will also include courses in Colloquial Tibetan and Manuscriptology. All courses take place at the South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg, from August 01 - 26: - Spoken Sanskrit (by Sadananda Das) - Nepali Intensive (by Laxmi Nath Shrestha) - Colloquial Tibetan (by Jonathan Samuels) - Manuscriptology (by Saraju Rath) The deadline for application is 31st Mai 2011. For further information and download of the application form, see: www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/en/summer_schools The Summer Schools are organised jointly by Professor Birgit Kellner, Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context", and Professor Axel Michaels, Department of Cultural and Religious History of South Asia (Classical Indology), South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg. Best wishes, Markus Viehbeck Markus Viehbeck Assistant, Buddhist Studies Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context" University of Heidelberg Karl Jaspers Centre Vossstra?e 2, Building 4400 D-69115 Heidelberg viehbeck at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martin.gansten at PBHOME.SE Wed May 11 13:07:05 2011 From: martin.gansten at PBHOME.SE (Martin Gansten) Date: Wed, 11 May 11 15:07:05 +0200 Subject: Vidya ha vai brahmanam ajagama In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092473.23782.12355474462610070109.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 243 Lines: 8 I would be grateful if anyone could tell me the earliest known source of the verse beginning 'vidy? ha vai br?hma?am ?jag?ma', which occurs in a number of texts (including the Muktikopani?ad and the V?si??hadharma??stra). Martin Gansten From pathompongb at YAHOO.COM Thu May 12 03:03:57 2011 From: pathompongb at YAHOO.COM (Pathompong Bodhiprasiddhinand) Date: Wed, 11 May 11 20:03:57 -0700 Subject: A Buddhist Conference in Thailand In-Reply-To: <4DBC6E42.5070709@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <161227092479.23782.11609040709540418100.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 904 Lines: 19 Dear all, Mahidol University will organise an international Conference on 'Buddhism in South-East Asia' on 29 August 2011 at S.D. Avenue Hotel, Bangplad, Bangkok, Thailand. The confirmed guest speakers include Dr Peter Skilling, Dr Prapod Assavavirulhakarn, Dr Kate Crosby, Dr Claudio Cicuzza, Dr Justin McDaniel and Dr Christian Lammerts. The panel discussion will be chaired by Dr Giuliano Giustarini. For general informaton, please contact Asst Prof Dr Pagorn Singsuriya at shpsi at mahidol.ac.th, Department of Humanities, Faculty of Social Sciences and Humanities, Mahidol University, Thailand. For booking a place, please write to Dr Sukhumpong Jannuwong at sukhumpong at hotmail.com. Thank you for your attention. Best wishes Pathompong Bodhiprasiddhinand Assistant Professor, DPhil PhD Programme in Buddhist Studies Mahidol University, Thailand http://www.sh.mahidol.ac.th/bodhi From hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Thu May 12 08:05:12 2011 From: hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (James Hegarty) Date: Thu, 12 May 11 09:05:12 +0100 Subject: Slightly cheeky enquiry Message-ID: <161227092482.23782.6062914070205177506.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 660 Lines: 25 Dear Colleagues, This is an Indological enquiry, but perhaps more related to research logistics than it should be. I am planning to spend the first half of next year in Nepal. I will be affiliated to the Lumbini International Research Institute, but I will be resident in Kathmandu. Do list members have any contacts that they might share in terms of accommodation and schooling in Kathmandu? I have two children (who will be 8 and 11 at this time) and am struggling to establish school contacts in particular. Please forgive me for such a nakedly self-interested enquiry! Best Wishes, James Hegarty Cardiff University hegartyj at cf.ac.uk From martin.gansten at PBHOME.SE Thu May 12 08:53:43 2011 From: martin.gansten at PBHOME.SE (Martin Gansten) Date: Thu, 12 May 11 10:53:43 +0200 Subject: Jhakataka and bhakataka? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092486.23782.7539422125765840418.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 539 Lines: 15 Many thanks to Madhav, Patrick and Christophe for providing additional sources for the quotation 'vidy? ha vai ...'. I now have a rather different question: In a late 16th-century text (the Pra?natantra attributed to N?laka??ha) I came across the two words jhaka?aka and bhaka?aka, which I have been unable to find in any dictionary. A Google search tells me that the former occurs in Samantabhadra's Ratnakara??a?r?vak?c?ra, but brings me no closer to a meaning. Any light on these two words would be most appreciated. Martin From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Thu May 12 09:50:45 2011 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Thu, 12 May 11 11:50:45 +0200 Subject: Jhakataka and bhakataka? In-Reply-To: <4DCBA017.30303@pbhome.se> Message-ID: <161227092490.23782.16315105801630078022.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1136 Lines: 34 Am 12.05.2011 10:53, schrieb Martin Gansten: > Many thanks to Madhav, Patrick and Christophe for providing additional > sources for the quotation 'vidy? ha vai ...'. I now have a rather > different question: > > In a late 16th-century text (the Pra?natantra attributed to > N?laka??ha) I came across the two words jhaka?aka and bhaka?aka, which > I have been unable to find in any dictionary. A Google search tells me > that the former occurs in Samantabhadra's Ratnakara??a?r?vak?c?ra, but > brings me no closer to a meaning. Any light on these two words would > be most appreciated. > Richard Schmidt: Nachtr?ge zum Sanskrit-W?rterbuch (1928), p. 194 lists jhaka?aka, "Streit" (quarrel); Jhaka?akas?ra, proper name; jhaga?aka. He does not have an entry bhaka?aka. Google Books gives some results, too. E.g., Abhijit Ghosh: Non-Aryan linguistic elements in the Atharvaveda: a study of some words of Austric origin. Calcutta: Sanskrit Pustak Bhandar, 2000, p. 158 (for jhaka?aka). Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 D-53113 Bonn From martin.gansten at PBHOME.SE Thu May 12 10:30:25 2011 From: martin.gansten at PBHOME.SE (Martin Gansten) Date: Thu, 12 May 11 12:30:25 +0200 Subject: Jhakataka and bhakataka? In-Reply-To: <4DCBAD75.5060602@uni-bonn.de> Message-ID: <161227092493.23782.6753935233703922552.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 598 Lines: 21 Excellent -- thank you very much! Bha- may, of course, easily be a misreading for jha- in some scripts. Martin Peter Wyzlic skrev 2011-05-12 11:50: > Richard Schmidt: Nachtr?ge zum Sanskrit-W?rterbuch (1928), p. 194 lists > jhaka?aka, "Streit" (quarrel); Jhaka?akas?ra, proper name; jhaga?aka. He > does not have an entry bhaka?aka. > > Google Books gives some results, too. E.g., Abhijit Ghosh: Non-Aryan > linguistic elements in the Atharvaveda: a study of some words of Austric > origin. Calcutta: Sanskrit Pustak Bhandar, 2000, p. 158 (for jhaka?aka). > > Hope it helps > Peter Wyzlic > From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Thu May 12 12:13:15 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Thu, 12 May 11 17:43:15 +0530 Subject: Jhakataka and bhakataka? In-Reply-To: <4DCBB6C1.6080304@pbhome.se> Message-ID: <161227092497.23782.5030623468131777306.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1385 Lines: 37 Dear Friends, By appearance jhakataka is of onomatopoeic origin, like cakacaka and cikacika, both attested and capable of giving rise to derivatives like c?kacakya and alikes. Also look into the NIA adverbs jhakjhak and taktak ?shining?? ?exquisite?. But please examine the available cases because I myself have not and am not in a position to do. I have no desire of unintentionally misleading. Best wishes DB ________________________________ From: Martin Gansten To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Thursday, 12 May 2011 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Jhakataka and bhakataka? Excellent -- thank you very much! Bha- may, of course, easily be a misreading for jha- in some scripts. Martin Peter Wyzlic skrev 2011-05-12 11:50: > Richard Schmidt: Nachtr?ge zum Sanskrit-W?rterbuch (1928), p. 194 lists > jhaka?aka, "Streit" (quarrel); Jhaka?akas?ra, proper name; jhaga?aka. He > does not have an entry bhaka?aka. > > Google Books gives some results, too. E.g., Abhijit Ghosh: Non-Aryan > linguistic elements in the Atharvaveda: a study of some words of Austric > origin. Calcutta: Sanskrit Pustak Bhandar, 2000, p. 158 (for jhaka?aka). > > Hope it helps > Peter Wyzlic > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martin.gansten at PBHOME.SE Thu May 12 18:17:52 2011 From: martin.gansten at PBHOME.SE (Martin Gansten) Date: Thu, 12 May 11 20:17:52 +0200 Subject: Jhakataka and bhakataka? In-Reply-To: <249023.21840.qm@web94810.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227092501.23782.7657652598048775178.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 126 Lines: 7 Thanks again to all who replied to this question. 'Quarrel, conflict', etc, does seem to fit the context. Martin Gansten From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Fri May 13 10:10:00 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Fri, 13 May 11 06:10:00 -0400 Subject: From 'footstep' to 'word' in Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227092512.23782.8218953338087725371.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 422 Lines: 18 Dear List, ?I have been asked? for a copy of my paper From ?footstep? to ?word? in Sanskrit, an old article of mine which I myself do not?have access to [!!!]. It is: >???From ?footstep? to ?word? in Sanskrit, which was published in Semiotica 1995. Is this something that someone can easily pass on to me, as a pdf? And isn't it absurd that an author of a paper has to ask for this kind of help? ?George Thompson From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri May 13 05:10:41 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 13 May 11 07:10:41 +0200 Subject: Jhakataka and bhakataka? In-Reply-To: <4DCBA017.30303@pbhome.se> Message-ID: <161227092508.23782.9305460152604127419.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1635 Lines: 46 In the *Rasendrama?gala*, a tenth-century alchemical work ascribed to N?g?rjuna Siddha, there's a word "challapalla" that seemed to mean something like jhaka?aka too. "Trouble, fuss, argument." (Or it could be associated with chal "cheat," meaning "deceptions, pretences"?) (diplomatic transcription sic from MS, ch. 1:) ... ye vai na j?nanti rasendrakarm??y asy?? p?thivy?? ca katha? sa vaidya? / 15 / ki? challapallair varavaidyar?ja? sa r?jate bh?patim agratas ya na vetti yo vai rasar?jave?ana? k?ru?yak?rti sa katha? hi lebhe / 16 / sarvo?adh?n?? kriyayopayogata? sa challapallair varayogaratnai? n?y?ti tulya? varayogibh?tale rasendrayog?c chatako?ir a??ata? / 17 / Maybe these words could be compared, linguistically, to English expressions like "argy-bargy ." Best, Dominik On 12 May 2011 10:53, Martin Gansten wrote: > Many thanks to Madhav, Patrick and Christophe for providing additional > sources for the quotation 'vidy? ha vai ...'. I now have a rather different > question: > > In a late 16th-century text (the Pra?natantra attributed to N?laka??ha) I > came across the two words jhaka?aka and bhaka?aka, which I have been unable > to find in any dictionary. A Google search tells me that the former occurs > in Samantabhadra's Ratnakara??a?r?vak?c?ra, but brings me no closer to a > meaning. Any light on these two words would be most appreciated. > > Martin > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Fri May 13 13:54:42 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Fri, 13 May 11 09:54:42 -0400 Subject: From 'footstep' to 'word' in Sanskrit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092519.23782.10238728874519388879.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 908 Lines: 40 Hello All, Dominik and a few other list members have kindly forwarded copies of my paper to me. I thank them all for taking the trouble to do so. As for copyrights, I have learned my lesson. Best, George On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 6:33 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > The lesson is, never, ever, ever give away your copyright. > > Dominik > > > > On 13 May 2011 12:10, George Thompson wrote: >> >> Dear List, >> >> ?I have been asked? for a copy of my paper From ?footstep? to ?word? >> in Sanskrit, an old article of mine which I myself do not?have access >> to [!!!]. >> >> It is: >> >> From ?footstep? to ?word? in Sanskrit, which was published in Semiotica >> 1995. >> >> Is this something that someone can easily pass on to me, as a pdf? >> >> And isn't it absurd that an author of a paper has to ask for this kind of >> help? >> >> ?George Thompson > > From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Fri May 13 04:51:03 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 13 May 11 10:21:03 +0530 Subject: Jhakataka and bhakataka? In-Reply-To: <4DCC2450.9050204@pbhome.se> Message-ID: <161227092504.23782.10755083493859695684.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1167 Lines: 29 13.5.11 <'Quarrel, conflict', etc, does seem to fit the context.> So, if we relate it to jhaga? ?quarrel?(Turner 5321). jhag?? ?-- the supposed NIA ?derivatives? do not have the second vowel of Turner --? can be used almost in almost all NIA languages. No Sanskrit source finds mention in the CDIAL. An early attested form seems to have been jhaka?? (Abhidh?naj?jendra). This and Sanskrit jhaka?a (?a?bh???candrik? ed. Kamala?ankar Dvived? 1909-10) find mention in Vang?ya ?abdakoshHaricharan Bandyopadhyay, 1932 (rep.1978). Apparently, this is not onomatopoeic.If the equation stood scrutinyjhaka?aka should have been an extension by the addition of ?ka. Best DB ________________________________ From: Martin Gansten To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Thursday, 12 May 2011 11:47 PM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Jhakataka and bhakataka? Thanks again to all who replied to this question. 'Quarrel, conflict', etc, does seem to fit the context. Martin Gansten -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri May 13 10:33:49 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 13 May 11 12:33:49 +0200 Subject: From 'footstep' to 'word' in Sanskrit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092515.23782.3525662176055386846.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 760 Lines: 31 The lesson is, never, ever, ever give away your copyright. Dominik On 13 May 2011 12:10, George Thompson wrote: > Dear List, > > I have been asked for a copy of my paper From ?footstep? to ?word? > in Sanskrit, an old article of mine which I myself do not have access > to [!!!]. > > It is: > > From ?footstep? to ?word? in Sanskrit, which was published in Semiotica > 1995. > > Is this something that someone can easily pass on to me, as a pdf? > > And isn't it absurd that an author of a paper has to ask for this kind of > help? > > George Thompson > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sat May 14 09:03:35 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 14 May 11 11:03:35 +0200 Subject: xetex-devanagari in TeXlive Message-ID: <161227092523.23782.5173068018866569385.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 269 Lines: 10 Thank you very much for this, Daniel! See: http://www.ctan.org/pkg/xetex-devanagari Dominik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nasadasin at GMAIL.COM Sat May 14 21:40:55 2011 From: nasadasin at GMAIL.COM (Al Collins) Date: Sat, 14 May 11 13:40:55 -0800 Subject: spoken Sanskrit class this summer Message-ID: <161227092543.23782.3538026257040096677.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 528 Lines: 12 My son is contemplating this class in Heidelberg. He has the Sanskrit background for it but is hesitant because it is conducted (like all language immersion programs) in the language being taught. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has taken this course in the past, hopefully telling Nick that it is not too threatening. Al Collins, Ph.D. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Sat May 14 17:42:02 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Sat, 14 May 11 13:42:02 -0400 Subject: From 'footstep' to 'word' in Sanskrit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092537.23782.2173107949419215171.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1218 Lines: 46 Dear List, It turns out that what Dominik and Daniel Stender have forwarded to me was just the first page of my Semiotica article. I have been sending pdf's of a version of this paper that I published in Indo-Iranian Journal in the same year. The Semiotica paper is obviously a version intended for the semiotics community. So it turns out that I still do not have access to this paper! I have a few offprints. So I can scan it and make a pdf for anyone who wants a pdf of it. Sorry for the confusion. George On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 6:33 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > The lesson is, never, ever, ever give away your copyright. > > Dominik > > > > On 13 May 2011 12:10, George Thompson wrote: >> >> Dear List, >> >> ?I have been asked? for a copy of my paper From ?footstep? to ?word? >> in Sanskrit, an old article of mine which I myself do not?have access >> to [!!!]. >> >> It is: >> >> From ?footstep? to ?word? in Sanskrit, which was published in Semiotica >> 1995. >> >> Is this something that someone can easily pass on to me, as a pdf? >> >> And isn't it absurd that an author of a paper has to ask for this kind of >> help? >> >> ?George Thompson > > From wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK Sat May 14 15:41:06 2011 From: wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK (Whitney Cox) Date: Sat, 14 May 11 16:41:06 +0100 Subject: Fwd: PLEASE CIRCULATE WIDELY: Tamil position at University of Goettingen, Germany In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092526.23782.2288116856816573634.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3876 Lines: 119 This may be of interest to members of the list. best, Whitney ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Rupa Viswanath Date: 13 May 2011 20:35 Subject: PLEASE CIRCULATE WIDELY: Tamil position at University of Goettingen, Germany To: "rupa.viswanath" Dear Friends and Colleagues, The Centre for Modern Indian Studies at the University of Goettingen is seeking a Tamil Lecturer/ Research Fellow. The full advertisement is appended below, and is also attached should you prefer to forward it that way. Please direct any questions regarding the position to me--and encourage candidates who might be unfamiliar with German academia to write to me with any practical concerns as well. I should also stress that the deadline is quite soon (June 3rd). Many thanks in advance for your help! Rupa Viswanath The Centre for Modern Indian Studies at the Georg-August-University G?ttingen is currently inviting applications for a *Lecturer/ Research Fellow in Tamil.* The position will start on 01 Oct. 2011. We offer a two-year fixed-term contract, with the possibility for renewal and/or permanent status contingent upon the availability of funding. Applications from scholars trained in any field of the humanities or social sciences whose research has focused on Tamil literature broadly conceived and/or Tamil-speaking populations will be given serious consideration. All applicants must possess a PhD or equivalent by the start date of the appointment, and must have prior experience teaching Tamil to non-native speakers. The successful candidate will teach Tamil at several levels, and, in addition, pursue a postdoctoral research project of his or her own design. The teaching load is 12 hours per week. The scholar will be based at the University of G?ttingen, Dept. of Indology, in Germany. Applicants from all countries are encouraged. German is not required initially, but the successful candidate will be required to acquire German sufficient for teaching purposes within a reasonable time frame. The full-time position (currently 39.8h per week) will provide the following benefits: The monthly gross salary for the postdoctoral position (salary scale TV-L E13) will range from ? 3,000 ? 3,400, commensurate with experience. Queries regarding the position may be addressed to Prof. Rupa Viswanath; E-Mail: rviswan at uni-goettingen.de. For more information on CeMIS visit the website at the University of G?ttingen: http://www.uni-goettingen.de/en/131819.html A complete application will consist of a letter of application, a 2-3 page description of a research project, and two letters of reference, at least one of which must address the applicant?s Tamil teaching abilities. Application materials should be sent by e-mail to* ** ikaraku1 at uni-goettingen.de* * *, with the subject line ?Tamil Position: Surname, Name?* no later than 03 June 2011.* All information given will be handled confidentially and deleted after a period of five months. The University of G?ttingen is an equal opportunity employer and places particular emphasis on fostering career opportunities for women. Qualified women are therefore strongly encouraged to apply. Disabled persons with equivalent aptitude will be favoured. -- Dr. Rupa Viswanath Professor of Indian Religions Centre for Modern Indian Studies University of Gottingen Waldweg 26 37073 Gottingen Germany -- Dr. Whitney Cox Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, School of Oriental and African Studies Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square London WC1H 0XG -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Sat May 14 20:44:03 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Sat, 14 May 11 16:44:03 -0400 Subject: From 'footstep' to 'word' in Sanskrit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092540.23782.1263318043514241834.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1470 Lines: 55 Dear List, Thanks to Birgit Kellner, I now have a pdf of the entire article. Thank you, Birgit, very much! George On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 1:42 PM, George Thompson wrote: > Dear List, > > It turns out that what Dominik and Daniel Stender have forwarded to me > was just the first page of my Semiotica article. ?I have been sending > pdf's of a version of this paper that I published in Indo-Iranian > Journal in the same year. ?The Semiotica paper is obviously a version > intended for the semiotics community. > > So it turns out that I still do not have access to this paper! > > I have a few offprints. ?So I can scan it and make a pdf for anyone > who wants a pdf of it. ?Sorry for the confusion. > > George > > On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 6:33 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >> The lesson is, never, ever, ever give away your copyright. >> >> Dominik >> >> >> >> On 13 May 2011 12:10, George Thompson wrote: >>> >>> Dear List, >>> >>> ?I have been asked? for a copy of my paper From ?footstep? to ?word? >>> in Sanskrit, an old article of mine which I myself do not?have access >>> to [!!!]. >>> >>> It is: >>> >>> From ?footstep? to ?word? in Sanskrit, which was published in Semiotica >>> 1995. >>> >>> Is this something that someone can easily pass on to me, as a pdf? >>> >>> And isn't it absurd that an author of a paper has to ask for this kind of >>> help? >>> >>> ?George Thompson >> >> > From adheesh1 at GMAIL.COM Sun May 15 00:43:56 2011 From: adheesh1 at GMAIL.COM (Adheesh Sathaye) Date: Sat, 14 May 11 17:43:56 -0700 Subject: spoken Sanskrit class this summer In-Reply-To: <3983c1835896be7b7162a3209cf92661.squirrel@squirrelmail.gigahost.dk> Message-ID: <161227092550.23782.3839910196803988915.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4444 Lines: 67 Dear Al and others, The courses that Sadananda Das has been teaching at Heidelberg for the better part of the decade are quite different than Samskrita Bharati, though he does incorporate a number of familiar ideas of spoken Sanskrit that Jacob mentions--grammatical simplicity, focus on everyday vocabulary, building of confidence. Not to worry, there is no severe discipline involved, and really the student can get out of it whatever she/he wants to get. Having participated in it myself (during its Florence incarnation in 2003), here are a few thoughts about it: The emphasis is on active pattern recognition and building--this is a key element of developing linguistic confidence, of not feeling afraid to make mistakes when using a language, because certain forms just start instinctively to "sound right." And even if they are wrong, you find out that they can still "work" to get the point across. This is something that happens in the classroom when learning just about any modern language, but too often Sanskrit students are left to their own devices (or to somehow "tough it out") in developing this confidence. This, in my opinion has been the most serious downside to what is otherwise an admirable maintenance of rigor in Sanskrit classrooms around the world, often resulting in the enrollment problems we experience today. Also, the courses at Heidelberg are designed with international students in mind. There is an effort made to help serious students of Sanskrit get better at the language so that they may succeed in their ultimate scholarly endeavors (history, religious studies, philology, what have you)--and not simply to surprise them with how much Sanskrit they can learn in 3 weeks, 3 days, or 3 hours. Also I have found little by way of nationalistic zeal or religious chauvinism--mainly I imagine due to the non-aggressive, thoughtful, and kind personality of Sadananda himself. He is really a dedicated and sincere teacher, and I don't think I'm alone in finding him to be inspirational. Most of all, I found it to be a really fun and exciting time (especially the incorporation of theater, songs, and verses), and a great way to enjoy Sanskrit without the stress and pressures ordinarily associated with studying it in the classroom. Being able to actively and socially have fun with the language changes the whole learning experience. I still have fond memories and great friends from those 3 weeks in Florence. hope this helps, Adheesh ---- Adheesh Sathaye Department of Asian Studies University of British Columbia On May 14, 2011, at 5:08 PM, Jaob Schmidt-Madsen wrote: > Dear Al, > > A couple of years ago I took spoken Sanskrit classes with the Samskrita > Bharati organization in Delhi and Varanasi. They also teach in the medium > of the language being taught, and discourage students from speaking in any > other language in class. In the boarding-school-like Samvadashala in Delhi > where students stay for anything from two weeks to several months, even > speaking in any other language outside class is strictly prohibited (and > enforced as such). > > Apart from the rather severe discipline upheld by Samskrita Bharati, I was > quite taken by their method of instruction which enabled students with > little or no prior experience with Sanskrit to quickly get a basic grasp > of the language. The grammar, of course, was watered down with > periphrastic forms and a predilection for a-stem nouns and thematic verbs, > but still students were able to make simple conversation in Sanskrit after > just a few classes. Myself included, rather to my surprise. > > So by all means, tell your son to go ahead and join the course (which, I > am sure, will be less rigid in its discipline than Samskrita Bharati's). > It is quite an eye-opener learning Sanskrit through conversation alone. > You quickly learn to set up a grammatical "no nonsense" filter in the > Paninian center of your brain :) > > Best wishes, > > Jacob > > Jacob Schmidt-Madsen > Department of Indology > University of Copenhagen > >> My son is contemplating this class in Heidelberg. He has the Sanskrit >> background for it but is hesitant because it is conducted (like all >> language >> immersion programs) in the language being taught. I would be interested to >> hear from anyone who has taken this course in the past, hopefully telling >> Nick that it is not too threatening. >> >> Al Collins, Ph.D. >> From daniel at DANIELSTENDER.COM Sat May 14 17:00:33 2011 From: daniel at DANIELSTENDER.COM (Daniel Stender) Date: Sat, 14 May 11 19:00:33 +0200 Subject: xetex-devanagari in TeXlive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092530.23782.15574843872825809276.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 877 Lines: 27 Thanks for appreciation. The Harvard/Kyoto (or if you like: Kyoto/Harvard) input was part of TeX Live before (and might be already on you computer). I've just added another IAST.map, there are already others around (like Somadeva's). The whole packet still needs some improvements, the need for "manual" Virama here is very ouch. Wanted to ask Zden?k Wagner if he wouldn't donate his Velthuis map, that would make a wrap (and is even somewhat orphaned at the other packet). So, next revision is coming up soon. If you like, please follow improvements at: https://github.com/danstender/xetex-devanagari/commits/master.atom (it's a blog) Greetings, Daniel On 14.05.2011 11:03, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Thank you very much for this, Daniel! > > See: http://www.ctan.org/pkg/xetex-devanagari > > Dominik -- http://www.danielstender.com/granthinam/ GPG key ID: 1654BD9C From daniel at DANIELSTENDER.COM Sat May 14 17:01:00 2011 From: daniel at DANIELSTENDER.COM (Daniel Stender) Date: Sat, 14 May 11 19:01:00 +0200 Subject: xetex-devanagari in TeXlive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092534.23782.16053989945074908030.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 873 Lines: 27 Thanks for appreciation. The Harvard/Kyoto (or if you like: Kyoto/Harvard) input was part of TeX Live before (and might be already on you computer). I've just added another IAST.map, there are already others around (like Somadeva's). The whole packet still needs some improvements, the need for "manual" Virama here is very ouch. Wanted to ask Zden?k Wagner if he wouldn't donate his Velthuis map, that would make a wrap (is even somewhat orphaned at the other packet). So, next revision is coming up soon. If you like, please follow improvements at: https://github.com/danstender/xetex-devanagari/commits/master.atom (it's a blog) Greetings, Daniel On 14.05.2011 11:03, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Thank you very much for this, Daniel! > > See: http://www.ctan.org/pkg/xetex-devanagari > > Dominik -- http://www.danielstender.com/granthinam/ GPG key ID: 1654BD9C From jacob at FABULARASA.DK Sun May 15 00:08:52 2011 From: jacob at FABULARASA.DK (Jaob Schmidt-Madsen) Date: Sun, 15 May 11 02:08:52 +0200 Subject: spoken Sanskrit class this summer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092547.23782.6622118778243677191.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1750 Lines: 44 Dear Al, A couple of years ago I took spoken Sanskrit classes with the Samskrita Bharati organization in Delhi and Varanasi. They also teach in the medium of the language being taught, and discourage students from speaking in any other language in class. In the boarding-school-like Samvadashala in Delhi where students stay for anything from two weeks to several months, even speaking in any other language outside class is strictly prohibited (and enforced as such). Apart from the rather severe discipline upheld by Samskrita Bharati, I was quite taken by their method of instruction which enabled students with little or no prior experience with Sanskrit to quickly get a basic grasp of the language. The grammar, of course, was watered down with periphrastic forms and a predilection for a-stem nouns and thematic verbs, but still students were able to make simple conversation in Sanskrit after just a few classes. Myself included, rather to my surprise. So by all means, tell your son to go ahead and join the course (which, I am sure, will be less rigid in its discipline than Samskrita Bharati's). It is quite an eye-opener learning Sanskrit through conversation alone. You quickly learn to set up a grammatical "no nonsense" filter in the Paninian center of your brain :) Best wishes, Jacob Jacob Schmidt-Madsen Department of Indology University of Copenhagen > My son is contemplating this class in Heidelberg. He has the Sanskrit > background for it but is hesitant because it is conducted (like all > language > immersion programs) in the language being taught. I would be interested to > hear from anyone who has taken this course in the past, hopefully telling > Nick that it is not too threatening. > > Al Collins, Ph.D. > From jacob at FABULARASA.DK Sun May 15 09:44:56 2011 From: jacob at FABULARASA.DK (Jaob Schmidt-Madsen) Date: Sun, 15 May 11 11:44:56 +0200 Subject: spoken Sanskrit class this summer Message-ID: <161227092553.23782.14380502950564824834.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3513 Lines: 97 Dear Andrey, The Samskrita Bharati website you are referring to is no longer updated. You should instead check out the following sites: US: http://www.samskritabharatiusa.org/ India: http://samskritabharati.in/ Caveat: While the US branch seems very well organized, prior experience tells me that this is not the case with the Indian branch. They can be very hard to get in contact with and obtain useful information from if you are not physically present (in which case everything is smooth and easy). To get a more critical view of the organization's philosophy of teaching - and the religio-nationalistic zeal that seems to inform it at some levels - try to pick up Merwan Hasting's dissertation "Past Perfect, Future Perfect: Sanskrit Revival and the Hindu Nation in Contemporary India" (University of Chicago, 2004). Best, Jacob Jacob Schmidt-Madsen Department of Indology University of Copenhagen > Dear Jacob, > > thank you very much for your post, and for me it comes just in time! > I would highly appreciate it, if you could tell me smth. about the > procedure to enroll in these Samskrita Bharati courses you've mentioned, > esp. the residential one in Delhi. I've heard about this organization for > several times but failed so far to locate them (the internet page > http://www.samskritabharati.org/ ) announces courses exclusively in > America (I'm a resident of Hamburg at the moment). I would be very > grateful to you if you could provide me with some additional practical > infos about SB-courses. > Thanks a lot in advance > > Andrey Klebanov > > On 15.05.2011, at 02:08, Jaob Schmidt-Madsen wrote: > >> Dear Al, >> >> A couple of years ago I took spoken Sanskrit classes with the Samskrita >> Bharati organization in Delhi and Varanasi. They also teach in the >> medium >> of the language being taught, and discourage students from speaking in >> any >> other language in class. In the boarding-school-like Samvadashala in >> Delhi >> where students stay for anything from two weeks to several months, even >> speaking in any other language outside class is strictly prohibited (and >> enforced as such). >> >> Apart from the rather severe discipline upheld by Samskrita Bharati, I >> was >> quite taken by their method of instruction which enabled students with >> little or no prior experience with Sanskrit to quickly get a basic grasp >> of the language. The grammar, of course, was watered down with >> periphrastic forms and a predilection for a-stem nouns and thematic >> verbs, >> but still students were able to make simple conversation in Sanskrit >> after >> just a few classes. Myself included, rather to my surprise. >> >> So by all means, tell your son to go ahead and join the course (which, I >> am sure, will be less rigid in its discipline than Samskrita Bharati's). >> It is quite an eye-opener learning Sanskrit through conversation alone. >> You quickly learn to set up a grammatical "no nonsense" filter in the >> Paninian center of your brain :) >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Jacob >> >> Jacob Schmidt-Madsen >> Department of Indology >> University of Copenhagen >> >>> My son is contemplating this class in Heidelberg. He has the Sanskrit >>> background for it but is hesitant because it is conducted (like all >>> language >>> immersion programs) in the language being taught. I would be interested >>> to >>> hear from anyone who has taken this course in the past, hopefully >>> telling >>> Nick that it is not too threatening. >>> >>> Al Collins, Ph.D. >>> > > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon May 16 12:14:04 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 16 May 11 14:14:04 +0200 Subject: Nice Times of India profile of CS Sundaram, long-time editor of the New Catalogus Catalogorum Message-ID: <161227092557.23782.14641990021044996335.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 443 Lines: 13 Prof. Sundaram is one of the few (only?) remaining people in the NCC project who worked from the beginning with Profs. V. Raghavan and Kunjunni Raja. See: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/A-journey-in-heritage-with-a-pen/articleshow/8351445.cms - DW -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU Tue May 17 21:08:17 2011 From: tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU (Gary Tubb) Date: Tue, 17 May 11 16:08:17 -0500 Subject: book announcement Message-ID: <161227092564.23782.16331925305004404738.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 399 Lines: 15 I would like to call your attention to the following announcement of a new book: > Johannes Bronkhorst, Language and Reality: On an episode in > Indian thought. Translated from the French by Michael S. > Allen and Rajam Raghunathan. Revised and with a new > appendix. Leiden - Boston: Brill. 2011. (Brill?s > Indological Library, 36.) ISBN 978-90-04-20435-5. xiii, 170 > pp. Yours, Gary Tubb. From athr at LOC.GOV Tue May 17 21:28:52 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Tue, 17 May 11 17:28:52 -0400 Subject: Italian scholar of Bengali? Message-ID: <161227092567.23782.1084347624835105433.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 759 Lines: 25 I have received a request from a municipal library in Italy asking for guidance in assembling a small collection of Bengali books. Are there any scholars of Bengali literature in Italy to whom I could refer the librarians for guidance? (I am also of course suggesting some other routes.) Thanks, Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue May 17 16:42:11 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 17 May 11 18:42:11 +0200 Subject: http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=An%20alphabetical%20index%20of%20Sanskrit%20manuscripts%20in%20the%20Government%20Oriental%20Manuscripts%20Library%20AND%20collection%3Aopensource Message-ID: <161227092561.23782.13194446029214253293.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 765 Lines: 19 I have just uploaded to the archive.org the three volumes of *An alphabetical index of Sanskrit manuscripts in the Government Oriental Manuscripts Library, Madras* by S. Kuppuswami Sastri and P. P. Subrahmanya Sastri (1938, 1940, 1942). See here . Best, Dr Dominik Wujastyk Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Vienna Austria -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeb2104 at COLUMBIA.EDU Wed May 18 21:57:45 2011 From: jeb2104 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Joel Bordeaux) Date: Wed, 18 May 11 17:57:45 -0400 Subject: Italian scholar of Bengali? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092571.23782.12820596756805120728.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1354 Lines: 48 Hi, Alan. Perhaps Fabrizio Ferrari can assist? f.ferrari at chester.ac.uk. best, J. Joel Bordeaux Ph.D. candidate Department of Religion Columbia University jeb2104 at columbia.edu On May 17, 2011, at 7:01 PM, INDOLOGY automatic digest system wrote: > Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 17:28:52 -0400 > From: "Thrasher, Allen" > Subject: Italian scholar of Bengali? > > --_000_1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F1AB150B508LCXCLMB03LCDS_ > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > I have received a request from a municipal library in Italy asking for guid= > ance in assembling a small collection of Bengali books. Are there any scho= > lars of Bengali literature in Italy to whom I could refer the librarians fo= > r guidance? (I am also of course suggesting some other routes.) > > Thanks, > > Allen > > Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. > Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator > South Asia Team > Asian Division > Library of Congress > Washington, DC 20540-4810 > USA > tel. 202-707-3732 > fax 202-707-1724 > The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of C= > ongress. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Thu May 19 07:29:56 2011 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Thu, 19 May 11 02:29:56 -0500 Subject: Italian scholar of Bengali? In-Reply-To: <24317457-C727-4A85-8063-C95362336D59@tin.it> Message-ID: <161227092581.23782.1534618339937773981.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1258 Lines: 66 Dear Allen, Eleonora Caturegli at Santiniketan may be a useful contact here, though I'm sorry that I don't have her current email address. She's not a scholar of Bengali - her area is performance art - but she's connected with people in literature etc. best, Matthew ---- Original message ---- > > I have received a request from a municipal library > in Italy asking for guidance in assembling a small > collection of Bengali books. Are there any > scholars of Bengali literature in Italy to whom I > could refer the librarians for guidance? (I am > also of course suggesting some other routes.) > > > > Thanks, > > > > Allen > > > > Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. > > Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator > > South Asia Team > > Asian Division > > Library of Congress > > Washington, DC 20540-4810 > > USA > > tel. 202-707-3732 > > fax 202-707-1724 > > The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect > those of the Library of Congress. > > > > > > > > Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From fransfe at TIN.IT Thu May 19 06:54:13 2011 From: fransfe at TIN.IT (Francesco Sferra) Date: Thu, 19 May 11 08:54:13 +0200 Subject: Italian scholar of Bengali? In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F1AB150B508@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227092578.23782.1468478798151417507.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1170 Lines: 59 Dear Dr. Thrasher, perhaps you could keep contact or make the municipal library in Italy keep contact with Daniela Cappello: Daniela Cappello Mobile: +39.339.48.02.332 Yours sincerely, Francesco Sferra Il giorno 17/mag/2011, alle ore 23.28, Thrasher, Allen ha scritto: > I have received a request from a municipal library in Italy asking for guidance in assembling a small collection of Bengali books. Are there any scholars of Bengali literature in Italy to whom I could refer the librarians for guidance? (I am also of course suggesting some other routes.) > > > > Thanks, > > > > Allen > > > > Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. > > Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator > > South Asia Team > > Asian Division > > Library of Congress > > Washington, DC 20540-4810 > > USA > > tel. 202-707-3732 > > fax 202-707-1724 > > The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu May 19 07:52:52 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 19 May 11 09:52:52 +0200 Subject: KSS 106, Jayanta Bhatta's Nyayamanjari Message-ID: <161227092585.23782.1898186964720321477.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 397 Lines: 12 Digital copy of the 1936 S?rya N?r?ya?a ?ukla edition, from DLI, assembled and uploaded to the archive.org, here . DW -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Thu May 19 05:18:30 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Thu, 19 May 11 10:48:30 +0530 Subject: H.M=?iso-8859-15?Q?=F6ller?= on the internet -- enquiry Message-ID: <161227092575.23782.17031957579693487651.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 506 Lines: 12 19 05 11 Dear friends, Could anyone inform if H.M?ller's works on the laryngeals are available on the internet? Any information on the availability of further works on early Semitic laryngeals will be received with gratitude. I have nothing post-Sturtevant-Kurylowicz with me. Best wishes and thanks in advance Dipak Bhattacharya -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Fri May 20 15:13:59 2011 From: conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Frank Conlon) Date: Fri, 20 May 11 08:13:59 -0700 Subject: Query from Hal Schiffman In-Reply-To: <4DD67AB5.1060907@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227092600.23782.11029120712829083728.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4396 Lines: 112 Dear Hal, On the Mumbai/Bombay front--the consensus has been that Mumbai was derived from a local goddess Mumbadevi. For years the folklore was that Bombay was the Portuguese rendering which also coincided with Bom Bahia or good harbor. The British adopted Bombay from the get-go and Bombay it has remained (until changed to Mumbai officially by the influence of Shiv Sena in its chauvinist mode--I seem to recall it was November 22, 1995. My recollection (not documented) was that the term Bombay became really political in the late 1950s when the central government declined to create separate Gujarat and Maharashtra states in the 1956 states reorganization. The issue was the claim of pro-Maharashtra folks that Bombay (Mumbai) would be the capital of the state. The 'opposition' to this was perceived to be the 'cosmopolitan' and 'capitalist' interests, which initially meant Gujaratis. The fact that Gujaratis were also an important component of the city's life and culture--and had been since the 17th century--was an inconvenient fact that was easily overlooked. The disagreement though was not linguistic as the city had been known as Mumbai in Marathi and Gujarati and Konkani always so far as I know. The railway stations had designations of Bambai in Hindi and this also appeared in Urdu. (You may recall the linguistic state agitations in South India involved attacks on post offices and trains--Indian Railways was then, and still now, is a central and 'cosmopolitan' entity--very slow to change. On Chennai/Madras, I recall that in 1965-66 the inbound busses coming into the city had Madras in English and Chennai in Tamil. I assumed that the official change to Chennai was part and parcel of the change to Tamilnadu although I believe it was later. The naming of Madras was an adaptation, I think, of Madrasapatam--one of the hamlets by Fort St. George. Here I am on shaky ground and defer to Madras-wallahs. Calcutta/Kolkata has its own history; the official change rooted in local politics. When Bangalore became Bengaluru the city fathers/mothers threw away what might be called a world-recognized 'brand' in the name of Kannadiga patriotism. One of my friends there said: "Our politicians cannot fix the traffic problem, the water problem, the pollution problem, so they renamed the city." If looking at the colonial naming from the other side, of course, the simple answer is that the British had a collective 'tin ear'--how else could Livorno become Leghorn? Or Kwantung become Canton? de gustibus, Frank Frank F. Conlon Professor Emeritus of History, South Asian Studies & Comparative Religion University of Washington Seattle, WA 98195-3560 USA Co-editor, H-ASIA Managing Director, Bibliography of Asian Studies Online On Fri, 20 May 2011, Elena Bashir wrote: > I am posting this query on behalf of Hal Schiffman.? Please send responses > directly to him:? haroldfs at GMAIL.COM > > ------- > "I've been asked by a colleague in another (non-South Asian) area of the > world > what is the history of colonial city naming in India, and whether it is > possible to > reconstruct what the "original" names for Bombay/Mumbai, Madras/Chennai, and > Calcutta/Kolkata. > > Two questions in particular I have is whether (1) Bombay was ever called > Mumbai by > speakers of other languages of India, other than Marathi, and (2) when > exactly did the > call for renaming Bombay as Mumbai began?? I'd be interested to know how > recently > this phenomenon is. > > I know that in the case of Madras/Chennai, I never heard of "Chennai" when I > first went > to Tamilnadu (then called Madras State) in 1965 and only later was there a > push to rename the > city. > > I keep in mind an incident from when I was involved in SEASSI and went to > Hanoi to > recruit teachers of Vietnamese.? We noticed that when speaking Vietnamese, > people > referred to Saigon as Saigon, but when speaking English, they called it Ho > Chi Minh City. > So I'm wondering whether this practice is all current in referring to Indian > city names. > > Hal Schiffman > > --------- > > Thanks, > > -- > E. Bashir, Ph.D., Senior Lecturer in Urdu > Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations > The University of Chicago, Foster 212 > 1130 E. 59th St. > Chicago, IL 60637 > Phone:? 773-702-8632 > Fax:? ? 773-834-3254 > > From ebashir at UCHICAGO.EDU Fri May 20 14:29:09 2011 From: ebashir at UCHICAGO.EDU (Elena Bashir) Date: Fri, 20 May 11 09:29:09 -0500 Subject: Query from Hal Schiffman Message-ID: <161227092594.23782.12471188753190673777.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1697 Lines: 55 I am posting this query on behalf of Hal Schiffman. Please send responses directly to him: haroldfs at GMAIL.COM ------- "I've been asked by a colleague in another (non-South Asian) area of the world what is the history of colonial city naming in India, and whether it is possible to reconstruct what the "original" names for Bombay/Mumbai, Madras/Chennai, and Calcutta/Kolkata. Two questions in particular I have is whether (1) Bombay was ever called Mumbai by speakers of other languages of India, other than Marathi, and (2) when exactly did the call for renaming Bombay as Mumbai began? I'd be interested to know how recently this phenomenon is. I know that in the case of Madras/Chennai, I never heard of "Chennai" when I first went to Tamilnadu (then called Madras State) in 1965 and only later was there a push to rename the city. I keep in mind an incident from when I was involved in SEASSI and went to Hanoi to recruit teachers of Vietnamese. We noticed that when speaking Vietnamese, people referred to Saigon as Saigon, but when speaking English, they called it Ho Chi Minh City. So I'm wondering whether this practice is all current in referring to Indian city names. Hal Schiffman --------- Thanks, -- E. Bashir, Ph.D., Senior Lecturer in Urdu Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations The University of Chicago, Foster 212 1130 E. 59th St. Chicago, IL 60637 Phone: 773-702-8632 Fax: 773-834-3254 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Fri May 20 14:49:36 2011 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Fri, 20 May 11 09:49:36 -0500 Subject: Mombai In-Reply-To: <4DD67AB5.1060907@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227092597.23782.1139125532812304610.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 950 Lines: 30 Dear Hal, I received your query from Elena. Others will be better poised than I to help you with Chennai and Kolkata (often said to derive from Kalighat), but at least one point of interest concerning Bombay/Mumbai comes to mind. In a Buddhist tantra called the .Daakaar.nava (ed. N.N. Chaudhuri, 1935), we find reference to a local divinity called (if I remember correctly - I don't have the text at hand) Mombaadevii, whom Chaudhuri posited as a first reference to the location that in his day was officially called Bombay. The language of the .Daakaar.nava is a variety of Eastern Apabhra.mza, certainly not Marathi, nor even a direct ancestor thereof. I don't think that it can be dated precisely, but ca. 900-1100 would be a good bet. Hope this is of some use. Matthew Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Fri May 20 13:18:22 2011 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Fri, 20 May 11 15:18:22 +0200 Subject: GRETIL update #388 Message-ID: <161227092591.23782.13244630854455937346.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1445 Lines: 62 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Badarayana: Brahmasutra (alternative version, revised) Bilhana: Caurapancasika (revised) Bodhipathapradipa (revised) Jayatirtha: Nyayasudha, Adhyaya 2 (revised and completed) Madhva: Anuvyakhyana (revised) Nagarjuna: Mahayanavimsika (revised) External links corrected for: Dighanikaya Majjhimanikaya Anguttaranikaya __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM Fri May 20 10:39:19 2011 From: venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM (venetia ansell) Date: Fri, 20 May 11 16:09:19 +0530 Subject: spoken Sanskrit class this summer In-Reply-To: <5ce107671fc195ca849a89b49845434e.squirrel@squirrelmail.gigahost.dk> Message-ID: <161227092587.23782.2032643935650344695.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4378 Lines: 112 Hi Andrey, The Indian website Jacob mentinos below has just been set up and is actively being updated so should be helpful. I know several of the Samskrita Bharati people in Bangalore and Delhi and can certainly help put you in touch with the right person, just let me know. I have also been on one of their 10 day residential courses and can tell you a bit more about their style of teaching if you'd like. Best, Venetia On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Jaob Schmidt-Madsen wrote: > Dear Andrey, > > The Samskrita Bharati website you are referring to is no longer updated. > You should instead check out the following sites: > > US: http://www.samskritabharatiusa.org/ > India: http://samskritabharati.in/ > > Caveat: While the US branch seems very well organized, prior experience > tells me that this is not the case with the Indian branch. They can be > very hard to get in contact with and obtain useful information from if you > are not physically present (in which case everything is smooth and easy). > > To get a more critical view of the organization's philosophy of teaching - > and the religio-nationalistic zeal that seems to inform it at some levels > - try to pick up Merwan Hasting's dissertation "Past Perfect, Future > Perfect: Sanskrit Revival and the Hindu Nation in Contemporary India" > (University of Chicago, 2004). > > Best, > Jacob > > Jacob Schmidt-Madsen > Department of Indology > University of Copenhagen > > > Dear Jacob, > > > > thank you very much for your post, and for me it comes just in time! > > I would highly appreciate it, if you could tell me smth. about the > > procedure to enroll in these Samskrita Bharati courses you've mentioned, > > esp. the residential one in Delhi. I've heard about this organization for > > several times but failed so far to locate them (the internet page > > http://www.samskritabharati.org/ ) announces courses exclusively in > > America (I'm a resident of Hamburg at the moment). I would be very > > grateful to you if you could provide me with some additional practical > > infos about SB-courses. > > Thanks a lot in advance > > > > Andrey Klebanov > > > > On 15.05.2011, at 02:08, Jaob Schmidt-Madsen wrote: > > > >> Dear Al, > >> > >> A couple of years ago I took spoken Sanskrit classes with the Samskrita > >> Bharati organization in Delhi and Varanasi. They also teach in the > >> medium > >> of the language being taught, and discourage students from speaking in > >> any > >> other language in class. In the boarding-school-like Samvadashala in > >> Delhi > >> where students stay for anything from two weeks to several months, even > >> speaking in any other language outside class is strictly prohibited (and > >> enforced as such). > >> > >> Apart from the rather severe discipline upheld by Samskrita Bharati, I > >> was > >> quite taken by their method of instruction which enabled students with > >> little or no prior experience with Sanskrit to quickly get a basic grasp > >> of the language. The grammar, of course, was watered down with > >> periphrastic forms and a predilection for a-stem nouns and thematic > >> verbs, > >> but still students were able to make simple conversation in Sanskrit > >> after > >> just a few classes. Myself included, rather to my surprise. > >> > >> So by all means, tell your son to go ahead and join the course (which, I > >> am sure, will be less rigid in its discipline than Samskrita Bharati's). > >> It is quite an eye-opener learning Sanskrit through conversation alone. > >> You quickly learn to set up a grammatical "no nonsense" filter in the > >> Paninian center of your brain :) > >> > >> Best wishes, > >> > >> Jacob > >> > >> Jacob Schmidt-Madsen > >> Department of Indology > >> University of Copenhagen > >> > >>> My son is contemplating this class in Heidelberg. He has the Sanskrit > >>> background for it but is hesitant because it is conducted (like all > >>> language > >>> immersion programs) in the language being taught. I would be interested > >>> to > >>> hear from anyone who has taken this course in the past, hopefully > >>> telling > >>> Nick that it is not too threatening. > >>> > >>> Al Collins, Ph.D. > >>> > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE Fri May 20 15:25:47 2011 From: zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE (Robert Zydenbos) Date: Fri, 20 May 11 17:25:47 +0200 Subject: Query from Hal Schiffman In-Reply-To: <4DD67AB5.1060907@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227092603.23782.7057962267865561063.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1222 Lines: 33 In Kannada, I have never heard or seen anything other than Mu?bai / Mu?bayi. There is also a persistant belief that Mu?b?d?vi is a Kannada-speaking goddess; I have not read this anywhere, nor do I know anything about the origin of this belief, but in conversations with numerous persons throughout Karnataka I have heard this repeatedly. RZ Am 20.05.2011, 16:29 Uhr, schrieb Elena Bashir : > I am posting this query on behalf of Hal Schiffman. Please send > responses directly to him: haroldfs at GMAIL.COM > > > ------- > "I've been asked by a colleague in another (non-South Asian) area of the > world > what is the history of colonial city naming in India, and whether it is > possible to > reconstruct what the "original" names for Bombay/Mumbai, Madras/Chennai, and > Calcutta/Kolkata. > > Two questions in particular I have is whether (1) Bombay was ever called > Mumbai by > speakers of other languages of India, other than Marathi, -- Prof. Dr. Robert Zydenbos Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie Universit?t M?nchen Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827 Web http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~zydenbos From malhar at IITB.AC.IN Fri May 20 18:59:32 2011 From: malhar at IITB.AC.IN (Malhar Arvind Kulkarni) Date: Sat, 21 May 11 00:29:32 +0530 Subject: Announcement of a forthcoming Symposium Message-ID: <161227092606.23782.5444275026456490457.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 903 Lines: 33 Respected Scholars, I am happy to announce that the 5th International Sanskrit Computational Linguistics Symposium (ISCLS) will be organised at IIT Bombay in Jan.2013, jointly by the Cell for Indian Sciences and Technology in Sanskrit (CISTS), Department of Humanities and Social Sciences (H&SS) and the Center for Indian Language Technology (CFILT), Department of Computer Science and Engineering (CSE), IIT Bombay . This is an announcement of 'Call for papers' for the same. Kindly visit the following link for details- https://sites.google.com/site/5isclc2013/Home This link is also available at- http://www.hss.iitb.ac.in/ http://www.cfilt.iitb.ac.in/ Kindly also note the following email address as symposium email address- 5thscls at gmail.com respectfully yours, -- Malhar Kulkarni, Department of Humanities and Social Sciences, IIT Bombay, Powai, Mumbai-400076. malhar at iitb.ac.in From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sat May 21 10:38:39 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 21 May 11 12:38:39 +0200 Subject: KSS 106, Jayanta Bhatta's Nyayamanjari In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227092608.23782.15359466612895314442.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1516 Lines: 38 Dear colleagues, Whitney Cox noticed that some pages from the beginning of the KSS 106 Jayanta edition scanned by the DLI were missing (bhumika 8 - mula 7). The copy of the book in my local library is also imperfect at the beginning, but luckily in complementary ways to the DLI scan. This morning I scanned the beginning of my local copy and put together a composite digital copy that should be more correct than either the instantiations of the edition available to me. I believe the DLI edition is that of the Asiatic Society of Bengal; my local edition is that of the ISTB library, University of Vienna. I've uploaded the new composite digital text to the Archive.org, with the file name JayantaBhatta_nyayaManjari_1936-corrected.pdf, and deleted the imperfect DLI copy. Any further error reports gratefully received! Best, DW On 19 May 2011 09:52, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Digital copy of the 1936 S?rya N?r?ya?a ?ukla edition, from DLI, assembled > and uploaded to the archive.org, here > . > > > DW > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Sat May 21 11:23:03 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sat, 21 May 11 16:53:03 +0530 Subject: Query from Hal Schiffman In-Reply-To: <4DD67AB5.1060907@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227092611.23782.3811413448387772485.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4068 Lines: 102 The old name of an area in present Kolkata (Calcutta) is found as K?lik?t?, pronounced kalkatt? in northern India, in the ?-?n-i Akbar? and the contemporary Cha???mangal? of Mukundaram. Bipradas Pipilai?s Manas?ma?gal makes mention the famous temple of K?l? at K?l?gh?? in south Calcutta. The present name Kolkata is a direct descendant of the above mentioned K?lik?t?, and Calcutta - an anglicized form of kalkatt?. The region meant by the name was the western part of present Central Calcutta. The northern and southern parts had different names. There are many opinions on the origin of the name, the most prominent ones being 1.kali-gada?heaps of lime? (S.K.Chatterji) referring to the trade in that community on the bank of the Ganga in the late medieval period; 2. Calicut which grew a temporary relation with this city. 3. K?l?gh??. The most authentic literature on the subject includes 1.????? Kolikata ?aharer itiv?tta(A history of Calcutta) in two volumes, Binay Ghosh with extensive information on Bengali and English sources, Kolkata 2004 (5th ed.) and 1997(3rd ed.) 2.????? Kolikata darpa?(A mirror of Calcutta) in two vol.s, Radharama? Mitra Vol.1 1997(4th reprint) Vol.2 2004. Vol.2 pages 167 ? 249 are devoted to the history of the name. 3.????? There are other works too. The nineteenth century speculations, mostly British, are dated and may be ignored. The history of the name of Bombay is less debated. There is a universal belief, I cannot specify the sources, that the name Bombay is an anglicized form of Mumbai supposed to be derived from Mumba Bai, the presiding deity of the region (mother-goddess taken for ?Virgin Mary? by the early European settlers). Even before the name was officially changed, all local people called it Mumbai while those coming from outside uttered the name as Bomba?. Literature is amply available. While?Madras? is supposed to have originated among the British from the abundance of Madrasas in the region,?Chennai?, like Mumbai, is supposed to have derived its name from the presiding deity of the region. But this is based on oral information from knowledgeable sources. I can refer to the persons but not to literature, nor to any authority. Best DB ? ________________________________ From: Elena Bashir To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Friday, 20 May 2011 7:59 PM Subject: [INDOLOGY] Query from Hal Schiffman I am posting this query on behalf of Hal Schiffman.? Please send responses directly to him:? haroldfs at GMAIL.COM ------- "I've been asked by a colleague in another (non-South Asian) area of the world what is the history of colonial city naming in India, and whether it is possible to reconstruct what the "original" names for Bombay/Mumbai, Madras/Chennai, and Calcutta/Kolkata. Two questions in particular I have is whether (1) Bombay was ever called Mumbai by speakers of other languages of India, other than Marathi, and (2) when exactly did the call for renaming Bombay as Mumbai began?? I'd be interested to know how recently this phenomenon is. I know that in the case of Madras/Chennai, I never heard of "Chennai" when I first went to Tamilnadu (then called Madras State) in 1965 and only later was there a push to rename the city. I keep in mind an incident from when I was involved in SEASSI and went to Hanoi to recruit teachers of Vietnamese.? We noticed that when speaking Vietnamese, people referred to Saigon as Saigon, but when speaking English, they called it Ho Chi Minh City. So I'm wondering whether this practice is all current in referring to Indian city names. Hal Schiffman --------- Thanks, -- E. Bashir, Ph.D., Senior Lecturer in Urdu Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations The University of Chicago, Foster 212 1130 E. 59th St. Chicago, IL 60637 Phone:? 773-702-8632 Fax:? ? 773-834-3254 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kengo.harimoto at UNI-HAMBURG.DE Mon May 23 11:48:47 2011 From: kengo.harimoto at UNI-HAMBURG.DE (Kengo Harimoto) Date: Mon, 23 May 11 13:48:47 +0200 Subject: NGMCP Wiki Message-ID: <161227092614.23782.17068965262981940355.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 900 Lines: 19 Dear Members of the list, The NGMCP (Nepalese-German Manuscript _Cataloguing_ Project) has been testing a wiki server for some months. Primary purpose of this wiki is to publish manuscript catalogue data created by the NGMCP. The address of the server is http://134.100.72.204/wiki/ It incorporates the information from the online title list http://134.100.72.204:3000/ We are hoping that the scholarly community finds some use of this catalogue wiki. We plan to keep adding new catalogue data, at the same time improving existing ones. This wiki will be the primary source of information the NGMCP gathers. Please keep coming back or subscribe to the RSS feed of Recent Changes. Anonymous editing and user creation are currently disabled. There is still a possibility to create users capable of editing. Please drop me (Harimoto) a line if interested. With best wishes, -- Kengo Harimoto From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Mon May 23 20:40:17 2011 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel) Date: Mon, 23 May 11 16:40:17 -0400 Subject: Sanskrit Summer School @ Harvard, update Message-ID: <161227092617.23782.17243744410563350825.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 877 Lines: 34 With apologies for cross-posting: -------------------------------------------------- An update: this year a few slots are still available. Please let prospective students know... M.Witzel =========== earlier message ======= This Summer, just as over the past 20 years, we will offer a course of Introductory Sanskrit, from June 27?August 12. See: For more details see: (search for: Sanskrit) For any further questions please contact me at: Michael Witzel MW > ============ > Michael Witzel > witzel at fas.harvard.edu > > > Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University > 1 Bow Street, > Cambridge MA 02138, USA > > phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571; > my direct line: 617- 496 2990 From athr at LOC.GOV Tue May 24 20:45:04 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Tue, 24 May 11 16:45:04 -0400 Subject: India in the Center of the History of Emotions, Max Planck Institute, Berlin Message-ID: <161227092620.23782.8428544051443098448.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1001 Lines: 25 I discovered this project < http://www.mpib-berlin.mpg.de/en/research/history-of-emotions/focus-india > from an email announcement to the membership of the South Asia Microform Project (SAMP) at Center for Research Libraries, Chicago, that the Center of the History of Emotions has just joined SAMP. This is the first institution to join SAMP outside of the U.S. and Canada. SAMP's homepage is < http://www.crl.edu/area-studies/samp >. Perhaps other non-North American institutions might consider joining, even in the current stringency. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM Tue May 31 10:18:11 2011 From: eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM (Dean Michael Anderson) Date: Tue, 31 May 11 03:18:11 -0700 Subject: Translations of Rig Veda Suparna Sukta (RV I.164) Message-ID: <161227092624.23782.12728266609425318346.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 446 Lines: 15 A colleague asked me for recommended translations of the? Rig Veda Suparna Sukta (RV I.164). I've been meaning to get around to working with it myself but, like so many things, I haven't gotten around to it. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Best, Dean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI Tue May 31 10:40:58 2011 From: klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI (Klaus Karttunen) Date: Tue, 31 May 11 13:40:58 +0300 Subject: Translations of Rig Veda Suparna Sukta (RV I.164) In-Reply-To: <49668.53181.qm@web161208.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227092631.23782.12850294578210514718.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1659 Lines: 42 Dean and others, without recommending anything, at least following could be noted: Commentary: R. Roth, ZDMG 46, 1892, 759f. (v. 30 & 38); B?htlingk, BVSGW 45, 1893, 88-92; Janert, IIJ 2, 1958, 108f. (v. 48cd); Thieme, Untersuchungen zur Wortkunde und Auslegung des Rigveda. Halle 1949, (v.; Kunjunni Raja, Asya v?masya hymn 1956/64; Renou, ?VP 16, 1967, 88; W. John son JAOS 96, 1976, 248?258. V. S. Agrawala: Vision in long Darkness. The thousand-syllabled Speech. 1. 20+226 p. 27 pl. Banaras 1963 (on RV 1, 164) ? Reviews: E. Bender, JAOS 88, 1968, 370; M. Scaligero, E & W 17, 1967, 339f. English tr.: Edgerton 1965; W. N. Brown, JAOS 88, 1969, 199ff.; O?Flaherty 1981, 71. German tr.: Luswig; Grassmann; Martin Haug, SBaAW 1875:2, 457-515;Winternitz 1908, 88 & 101; Hillebrandt 1913, 103; Geldner; Witzel et al. 2007. Russian tr.: Elizarenkova. Best, Klaus Klaus Karttunen Professor of South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674 Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094 Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi On May 31, 2011, at 1:18 PM, Dean Michael Anderson wrote: > A colleague asked me for recommended translations of the Rig Veda Suparna Sukta (RV I.164). > > I've been meaning to get around to working with it myself but, like so many things, I haven't gotten around to it. > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > Best, > > Dean > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Tue May 31 18:17:59 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Tue, 31 May 11 14:17:59 -0400 Subject: Translations of Rig Veda Suparna Sukta (RV I.164) In-Reply-To: <408726.18428.qm@web94811.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227092660.23782.14084568979085204351.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2060 Lines: 74 Dear List, There is also an English version of Jan's paper in JAOS 120.4 [Oct-Dec 2000]. This has a complete translation appended to it. However, I do not think that Jan or anyone else has mastered or solved this hymn. In deference to Dipak, I will not mystery-monger. But the hymn is certainly a brahmodya hymn with many still unsolved riddles. I will include a translation and commentary in my forthcoming Rigveda anthology. Best, George On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya < dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com> wrote: > 31 05 11 > > Dear Colleagues, > > I regret that I forgot to mention the following study extensively dealing, > inter alia, with the relation between RV 1.164 and the > Av?ntarad?k??/Pravargya. A worthwhile reading the approach of the author is > marked by scrupulous avoidance of mystery-mongering and convincingly > establishing the ritual connection, with what one may call a no nonsense > approach without fanfare. > > Best > > DB > > ?Transmission sans ?criture dans l?inde ancienne :?nigme et Structure > rituelle? > > Jan E. M. HOUBEN > > as > > *?**TUDES TH?MATIQUES **23 * > > *?crire et transmettre en Inde classique* > > Sous la direction de G?rard COLAS et Gerdi GERSCHHEIMER > > ?cole fran?aise d?Extr?me-Orient > > Paris, 2009 > > --- On *Tue, 31/5/11, Dean Michael Anderson *wrote: > > > From: Dean Michael Anderson > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Translations of Rig Veda Suparna Sukta (RV I.164) > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Date: Tuesday, 31 May, 2011, 10:18 AM > > A colleague asked me for recommended translations of the Rig Veda > Suparna Sukta (RV I.164). > > I've been meaning to get around to working with it myself but, like so many > things, I haven't gotten around to it. > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > Best, > > Dean > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Tue May 31 12:20:46 2011 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Tue, 31 May 11 14:20:46 +0200 Subject: 1 July Symposium in Leiden--all are welcome! Message-ID: <161227092635.23782.5996644818000057219.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4213 Lines: 107 Presenting Tibet: Celebrating the Contributions of E. Gene Smith to Tibetan Studies *Date:* 1 July 2011 *Venue: *Gravensteen (room 111), Pieterskerkhof 6, Leiden A half-day of presentations and discussion, followed by the formal ceremony of bestowal of the (posthumous) Doctorate in Philosophy (PhD) on E. Gene Smith Short presentations followed by discussion: *13.00 - 13.05* Welcome by *Prof. Jonathan A. Silk* (Leiden University Institute for Area Studies) *13.05 *- *13.50 Dr. Henk Blezer* (Leiden University Institute for Area Studies) *Where to Look for the Origins of Zhang zhung-related Scripts* *13.50 - 14.35** Prof. Leonard van der Kuijp* (Harvard University, USA) *A Tibetan-Buddhist - Protestant-Christian Encounter near Xining, Qinghai Province, in 1890* *14.35 - 15.00* *Coffee/Tea break* *15.00 - 15.45* *Prof.* *Charles Ramble* (Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris, France) *The Origins of Tibetan Autobiography* *15.45 - 16.30* *Prof. Cristina Scherrer-Schaub* (University of Lausanne and Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris, France) *Places and writings (waiting) to be discovered: Tibet in the epoch of Paul Pelliot (1878-1945)* *16.30 - 17.15* *Dr. Peter Verhagen* (Leiden University Institute for Area Studies) *Encyclopedic Knowledge in Tibet's Traditions: Si-tu Chos-kyi-'byung-gnas (1699?-1774) and E. Gene Smith* *Awarding of the Degree* *17.30** Formal bestowal of the doctoral degree* (Senaatskamer of the Academy Building, Rapenburg 73, Leiden ) *Information and Registration*: For questions or registration, contact Ms Martina van den Haak at M.C.van.den.Haak at iias.nl The International Institute for Asian Studies (IIAS) is a postdoctoral research centre based in the Netherlands. The Institute encourages the interdisciplinary and comparative study of Asia and promotes national and international cooperation. The Institute focuses on the human and social sciences and on their interaction with other sciences. IIAS Main Office Leiden | P.O. box 9500 | 2300 RA | Leiden | www.iias.nl IIAS Branch Office Amsterdam | Oudezijds Achterburgwal 185 | 1012 DK | Amsterdam Unsubscribe from IIAS mailing list ------------------------------ -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: InvitationTibetconference.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 29025 bytes Desc: not available URL: From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Tue May 31 12:35:54 2011 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Tue, 31 May 11 14:35:54 +0200 Subject: Translations of Rig Veda Suparna Sukta (RV I.164) In-Reply-To: <8F3373A9-F456-4B15-8435-A20E26045C14@helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <161227092640.23782.14869150348951322201.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1265 Lines: 43 Jarl Charpentier dealt with this hymn at least at the p. 244 of his Die Supar.nasage. Untersuchungen zur altindischen Literatur- und Sagengeschichte, Uppsala: A.B. Akademiska Bokhandeln, 1922, Arbeten Utgivna med underst?d av Vilhelm Ekmans Universitetsfond, Uppsala, no. 26: http://www.archive.org/details/diesuparnasageun00charuoft review by P.E. Dumont: http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/rbph_0035-0818_1923_num_2_4_6264_t1_0713_0000_1 > > >On May 31, 2011, at 1:18 PM, Dean Michael Anderson wrote: > >>A colleague asked me for recommended >>translations of the Rig Veda Suparna Sukta (RV >>I.164). >> >>I've been meaning to get around to working with >>it myself but, like so many things, I haven't >>gotten around to it. >> >>Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. >> >>Best, >> >>Dean -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ http://www.uclouvain.be/356389.html -- Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of storage free. http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Tue May 31 13:10:52 2011 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Tue, 31 May 11 15:10:52 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Re: [INDOLOGY] Translations of Rig Veda Suparna Sukta (RV I.164) Message-ID: <161227092644.23782.4559293916319056871.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2587 Lines: 83 According to the author of the booklet joined to the audio-cd 'South India - Ritual Music and Theatre of Kerala' (Le Chant du Monde, collection CNRS/Mus?e de l'homme, Harmonia Mundi, LDX 274 910, 1989) which gives as item 3 the recording of the beginning of RV 1.164 in ratha-paa.tha, there would exist an English translation by F. Staal (maybe in his "Nambudiri Veda recitation"?). >Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 13:40:58 +0300 >From: Klaus Karttunen >Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Translations of Rig Veda Suparna Sukta (RV I.164) > > >Dean and others, >without recommending anything, at least following could be noted: > >Commentary: R. Roth, ZDMG 46, 1892, 759f. (v. 30 >& 38); B?htlingk, BVSGW 45, 1893, 88-92; Janert, >IIJ 2, 1958, 108f. (v. 48cd); Thieme, >Untersuchungen zur Wortkunde und Auslegung des >Rigveda. Halle 1949, (v.; Kunjunni Raja, Asya >v?masya hymn 1956/64; Renou, ?VP 16, 1967, 88; >W. John??son JAOS 96, 1976, 248-258. >V. S. Agrawala: Vision in long Darkness. The >thousand-syllabled Speech. 1. 20+226 p. 27 pl. >Banaras 1963 (on RV 1, 164) - Reviews: E. >Bender, JAOS 88, 1968, 370; M. Scaligero, E & W >17, 1967, 339f. >English tr.: Edgerton 1965; W. N. Brown, JAOS >88, 1969, 199ff.; O'Flaherty 1981, 71. >German tr.: Luswig; Grassmann; Martin Haug, >SBaAW 1875:2, 457-515;Winternitz 1908, 88 & 101; >Hillebrandt 1913, 103; Geldner; Witzel et al. >2007. >Russian tr.: Elizarenkova. > >Best, >Klaus > >Klaus Karttunen >Professor of South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies >Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures >PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) >00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND >Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674 >Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094 >Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi > > > > >On May 31, 2011, at 1:18 PM, Dean Michael Anderson wrote: > >>A colleague asked me for recommended >>translations of the Rig Veda Suparna Sukta (RV >>I.164). >> >>I've been meaning to get around to working with >>it myself but, like so many things, I haven't >>gotten around to it. >> >>Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. >> >>Best, >> >>Dean -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ http://www.uclouvain.be/356389.html -- Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of storage free. http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Tue May 31 13:31:47 2011 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Tue, 31 May 11 15:31:47 +0200 Subject: 1 July Symposium in honor of Gene Smith Message-ID: <161227092647.23782.14129709902136515232.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2553 Lines: 77 I am not certain that my attachment in an earlier attempt made it through, therefore I repeat the post here (apologies if the earlier post reached you and I simply clog your inbox): Presenting Tibet: Celebrating the Contributions of E. Gene Smith to Tibetan Studies *Date:* 1 July 2011 *Venue: *Gravensteen (room 111), Pieterskerkhof 6, Leiden A half-day of presentations and discussion, followed by the formal ceremony of bestowal of the (posthumous) Doctorate in Philosophy (PhD) on E. Gene Smith Short presentations followed by discussion: *13.00 - 13.05* Welcome by *Prof. Jonathan A. Silk* (Leiden University Institute for Area Studies) *13.05 *- *13.50 Dr. Henk Blezer* (Leiden University Institute for Area Studies) *Where to Look for the Origins of Zhang zhung-related Scripts* *13.50 - 14.35** Prof. Leonard van der Kuijp* (Harvard University, USA) *A Tibetan-Buddhist - Protestant-Christian Encounter near Xining, Qinghai Province, in 1890* *14.35 - 15.00* *Coffee/Tea break* *15.00 - 15.45* *Prof.* *Charles Ramble* (Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris, France) *The Origins of Tibetan Autobiography* *15.45 - 16.30* *Prof. Cristina Scherrer-Schaub* (University of Lausanne and Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris, France) *Places and writings (waiting) to be discovered: Tibet in the epoch of Paul Pelliot (1878-1945)* *16.30 - 17.15* *Dr. Peter Verhagen* (Leiden University Institute for Area Studies) *Encyclopedic Knowledge in Tibet's Traditions: Si-tu Chos-kyi-'byung-gnas (1699?-1774) and E. Gene Smith* *Awarding of the Degree* *17.30** Formal bestowal of the doctoral degree* (Senaatskamer of the Academy Building, Rapenburg 73, Leiden ) *Information and Registration*: For questions or registration, contact Ms Martina van den Haak at M.C.van.den.Haak at iias.nl -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU Tue May 31 20:33:07 2011 From: tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU (Gary Tubb) Date: Tue, 31 May 11 15:33:07 -0500 Subject: job openings Message-ID: <161227092663.23782.834879333525244222.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 711 Lines: 25 I have been asked to call your attention to the following two links announcing openings at the University of Lausanne: PROFESSEUR ORDINAIRE OU PROFESSEUR ASSISTANT EN PRETITULARISATION CONDITIONNELLE AU NIVEAU DE PROFESSEUR ORDINAIRE A 100% EN ETUDES BOUDDHIQUES https://applicationsw.unil.ch/adminpub/?MIval=PoIntHome&TypelC=810&PoId=2216 PROFESSEUR ORDINAIRE OU PROFESSEUR ASSISTANT EN PRETITULARISATION CONDITIONNELLE AU NIVEAU DE PROFESSEUR ORDINAIRE A 100% EN ETUDES SUR L?INDE MEDIEVALE, MODERNE ET CONTEMPORAINE https://applicationsw.unil.ch/adminpub/?MIval=PoIntHome&TypelC=810&PoId=2217 -- Gary Tubb, Professor Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations The University of Chicago From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Tue May 31 10:31:00 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 31 May 11 16:01:00 +0530 Subject: Translations of Rig Veda Suparna Sukta (RV I.164) In-Reply-To: <49668.53181.qm@web161208.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227092627.23782.15730728770955847155.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1155 Lines: 26 The literature is vast.? The shortest list will perhaps include Ludwig and Geldner by consensus, also Oldenberg Noten (inexhaustive); the traditional view finds some place in H.H.Wilson; VS Agrawala has an exclusive study but many of his interpretations are peculiar to him, sometimes influenced by contemporary Indian mystics. Grassmann is not literal. Stray comments by Kunhan Raja and Edgerton are insufficient. Best DB --- On Tue, 31/5/11, Dean Michael Anderson wrote: From: Dean Michael Anderson Subject: [INDOLOGY] Translations of Rig Veda Suparna Sukta (RV I.164) To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 31 May, 2011, 10:18 AM A colleague asked me for recommended translations of the? Rig Veda Suparna Sukta (RV I.164). I've been meaning to get around to working with it myself but, like so many things, I haven't gotten around to it. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Best, Dean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garzilli at ASIATICA.ORG Tue May 31 16:23:50 2011 From: garzilli at ASIATICA.ORG (Enrica Garzilli) Date: Tue, 31 May 11 18:23:50 +0200 Subject: Call for Papers: International Journal of Tantric Studies (IJTS) Message-ID: <161227092651.23782.9664498287103648762.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2648 Lines: 54 Call for Papers: International Journal of Tantric Studies (IJTS) We are seeking academics and bona fide scholars to write and submit finished papers and review papers to our scholarly online publication (established 1995), the *International Journal of Tantric Studies* http://asiatica.org/ijts/. The IJTS is open to all bona fide scholars in Hindu and Buddhist Tantric and Tantra-related studies, translations and translators in Sanskrit, Bengali, Vernacular, Tibetan, Chinese, Japanese, etc. We are looking for articles that engage any aspect of this broad theme. Before submitting your paper / paper review, please read our Submission Guidelines: http://asiatica.org/asiatica/submit/. We plan to publish all the IJTS papers in hard copy shortly. Depending on the next issue, hopefully by the end of the year. *IJTS editors: Enrica Garzilli (Editor-in-Chief), Michael Witzel* (Managing Editor), *Roberto Donatoni, Minoru Hara, David N. Lorenzen*, *Benjamin Prejado*, *Michael Rabe, Debabrata Sensharma*, *Karel van Kooij*. Latest papers: ?Beyond The Hindu Frontier. Jaina-Vai??ava Syncretism In The Gujar?t? Diaspora (part I & part II)? by Peter Fl?gel; ?The Conservative Character of Tantra: Secrecy, Sacrifice and This-Worldly Power in Bengali ??kta Tantra? by Hugh B. Urban; ?Traditions in Transition: Meditative Concepts in the Development of Tantric S?dhana? by Stuart R. Sarbacker; ?The Realm of the Divine: Three MaNDalas from the NiSpannayogAvalI? by Terence M. Hays; ?Magically Storming the Gates of Buddhahood: Extensible Text Technology (XML/XSLT) as a Simulacrum for Research? by John Robert Gardner; ?Mahamahopadhyaya Dr. Gopinath Kaviraj, My Teacher: As I Saw Him? by Debabrata Sensharma; ?Philosophie de l'akula-kula selon les ?coles des kaulas du Tantrisme de l'Inde? by Dominique Boubouleix; ?Review Paper: The Mythology of BrahmA? by Paolo Magnone; ?Sexual Imagery on the "Phantasmagorical Castles" at Khajuraho? by Michael Rabe; ?Computer Space: The New Nina fonts and Macros? by Ludovico Magnocavallo; ?Tantra and Dharma Teachers from Kashmir in Nepal? by Michael Witzel; ?Computer Space: Typing Devanagari on a Standard Keyboard? by Derick Miller ; ?Computer Space? by Ludovico Magnocavallo; ?The Unique Position of the Spanda School Among the Others of the Trika System of Kazmir? by Enrica Garzilli. Send proposals to Enrica Garzilli: garzilli at asiatica.org Dr Enrica Garzilli Asiatica Association, IJTS & JSAWS http://asiatica.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Tue May 31 17:54:55 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 31 May 11 23:24:55 +0530 Subject: Translations of Rig Veda Suparna Sukta (RV I.164) In-Reply-To: <49668.53181.qm@web161208.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227092656.23782.1473360731858427109.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1419 Lines: 64 31 05 11 Dear Colleagues, I regret that I forgot to mention the following study extensively dealing, inter alia, with the relation between RV 1.164 and the Av?ntarad?k??/Pravargya. A worthwhile reading the approach of the author is marked by scrupulous avoidance of mystery-mongering and convincingly establishing the ritual connection, with what one may call a no nonsense approach without fanfare. Best DB ?Transmission sans ?criture dans l?inde ancienne :?nigme et Structure rituelle? Jan E. M. HOUBEN as ?TUDES TH?MATIQUES 23 ?crire et transmettre en Inde classique Sous la direction de G?rard COLAS et Gerdi GERSCHHEIMER ?cole fran?aise d?Extr?me-Orient Paris, 2009 --- On Tue, 31/5/11, Dean Michael Anderson wrote: From: Dean Michael Anderson Subject: [INDOLOGY] Translations of Rig Veda Suparna Sukta (RV I.164) To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 31 May, 2011, 10:18 AM A colleague asked me for recommended translations of the? Rig Veda Suparna Sukta (RV I.164). I've been meaning to get around to working with it myself but, like so many things, I haven't gotten around to it. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Best, Dean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU Tue Nov 1 00:28:28 2011 From: tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU (Gary Tubb) Date: Mon, 31 Oct 11 19:28:28 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ph.D/Research prospects in Indology In-Reply-To: <20111026074506.17734.qmail@f6mail-145-60.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: <161227094289.23782.11657890301844984531.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 982 Lines: 33 I am forwarding to the list the following message originally sent to the list's governing committee. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Ph.D/Research prospects in Indology Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 07:45:06 -0000 From: alakendu das Reply-To: Indology Committee To: INDOLOGYCOMMITTEE at liverpool.ac.uk To all colleagues and Eminent scholars in Indology. May I kindly be informed of Research prospects in Indology leading to Ph.D in any university/Institution(Indian/Foreign) I am available at mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com With regards ALAKENDU DAS ** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richard.gombrich at BALLIOL.OX.AC.UK Tue Nov 1 18:31:38 2011 From: richard.gombrich at BALLIOL.OX.AC.UK (Richard Gombrich) Date: Tue, 01 Nov 11 18:31:38 +0000 Subject: announcing a new journal Message-ID: <161227094293.23782.4773961320563417084.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 419 Lines: 8 Volume One of the Journal of the Oxford Centre for Buddhist Studies has been published and is held in electronic form on the web site www.ocbs.org/journal. See this link for the table of contents and subscription information. Richard Gombrich -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karin.preisendanz at UNIVIE.AC.AT Wed Nov 2 13:32:08 2011 From: karin.preisendanz at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Karin.Preisendanz) Date: Wed, 02 Nov 11 14:32:08 +0100 Subject: De Nobili Research Library Prize for 2012 In-Reply-To: <4EAAF5B4.7030603@mcgill.ca> Message-ID: <161227094296.23782.1742890358390431499.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1990 Lines: 47 Announcing the ?De Nobili Research Library Prize? for 2012 The association ?De Nobili Research Library ? Association for Indology and the Study of Religion?, Vienna, aims to promote research on Indian religions, especially from the point of view of the mutual encounter between Christian spirituality as well as Christianity and Western thought in general, and the various manifestations of Indian religiosity. To further this aim, the Association disseminates the results of such research through the organisation of symposia and public lectures, and especially through its two publication series (see http://www.istb.univie.ac.at/cgi-bin/sdn/sdn.cgi). This year, the Association decided to promote its aims in still another way. It herewith announces, for the first time, an essay competition. Students, young researchers and others interested in the Christian encounter with Indian religions are cordially invited to submit an essay on the topic ?Dimensions of the Christian Encounter with the Religions of India: Aims, Possibilities, Ramifications?. The previously unpublished essays may be written in English or German, and should amount to approximately 18,000 words. A prize committee consisting of members of the Association and an external referee will evaluate the submitted essays in a double-blind review process. The best essay will be awarded with the ?De Nobili Research Library Prize? for 2012; the prize money amounts to ? 2,500. The prize may be shared by two winners. Essays should be formatted in 12 pt, with 1.5 line spacing, and submitted in PDF-format until May 20, 2012, the 407th anniversary of Roberto de Nobili?s arrival in India, to the Deputy Secretary of the Association, Dr. Marcus Schm?cker, at Marcus.Schmuecker at oeaw.ac.at. With best regards, Karin Preisendanz, Chairperson of the Association -- Karin Preisendanz Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Wien ?sterreich From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Wed Nov 2 20:57:48 2011 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Wed, 02 Nov 11 21:57:48 +0100 Subject: Manfred Mayrhofer (1926-2011) Message-ID: <161227094299.23782.9754115133160427911.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 689 Lines: 29 Verehrte Kolleginnen und Kollegen, ich bedaure, Ihnen die schmerzliche Mitteilung vom Ableben Manfred Mayrhofers am 31. Oktober 2011 zur Kenntnis bringen zu m?ssen. http://www.manfred-mayrhofer.at/ Mit freundlichen Gr??en, Walter Slaje ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Thu Nov 3 12:03:24 2011 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 11 06:03:24 -0600 Subject: Vidvadrudhi and Mahayoga In-Reply-To: <872D53AE0F4BF74E9ED620CF5366DE7303621F@MBXP06.ds.man.ac.uk> Message-ID: <161227094307.23782.14483111471131322605.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 887 Lines: 18 r??hi is, of course, the conventional meaning of a word, such as Br?ha?a being a group of people or caste. yoga is viewed as the etymological meaning: such as, brahmavid br?hma?a?. What the first terms of the compounds are, I am not sure. vidvadr??hi could mean conventional meaning among the learned. Patrick On Nov 3, 2011, at 3:41 AM, Michael Williams wrote: > Dear all, > > I am currently working on Vyaasatiirtha's Nyaayaam.rta, and Raamaacaarya's comment on it. While commenting on VT's ma;ngala;sloka, Raamaacaarya uses two technical terms which I haven't been able to find a good interpretation for. They are "vidvadruu.dhi" and "mahaayoga". I assume that these are technical terms of grammar, but I am not should what the precise distinction is between them. I would be grateful if anyone could clarify. > > Many thanks, > > Mike Williams, > University of Manchester From Michael.Williams at POSTGRAD.MANCHESTER.AC.UK Thu Nov 3 09:41:37 2011 From: Michael.Williams at POSTGRAD.MANCHESTER.AC.UK (Michael Williams) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 11 09:41:37 +0000 Subject: Vidvadrudhi and Mahayoga Message-ID: <161227094305.23782.8642680310229370672.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 505 Lines: 11 Dear all, I am currently working on Vyaasatiirtha's Nyaayaam.rta, and Raamaacaarya's comment on it. While commenting on VT's ma;ngala;sloka, Raamaacaarya uses two technical terms which I haven't been able to find a good interpretation for. They are "vidvadruu.dhi" and "mahaayoga". I assume that these are technical terms of grammar, but I am not should what the precise distinction is between them. I would be grateful if anyone could clarify. Many thanks, Mike Williams, University of Manchester From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Thu Nov 3 06:17:02 2011 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 11 11:47:02 +0530 Subject: gov=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81lavyajana?= Message-ID: <161227094302.23782.10101557223482314681.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 907 Lines: 23 Dear list-members, Can anybody point us to a passage about a gov?lavyajana (a cow-hair-fan of one da??a or more in length) used in some way on the occasion of bathing on the fourth day after menstruation ? Does she (the udaky?) stand beneath (arv?k) the gov?lavyajana? Or should she bathe before or after (arv?k) using it in some way? We (Dr. Sathyanarayanan and myself) are trying to interpret the following passage in our forthcoming edition of Trilocana?iva's Pr?ya?cittasamuccaya (C12th): yatra bh?mau t??a? n?sti jala? vodakyay? saha| gov?lavyajan?d arv?k sn?na? tatra vidh?yate|| 524*|| gov?lavyajana? da??o yadv? pauru?am?nata?| t??ak???hanikh?te?u ku?yen?ntarhitena v?|| 525*|| gov?lavyajane c?pi sn?na? tatra na vidyate| (OR: tatra vidh?yate) karmamadhye tu t?? d???v? g?hastha? pra?ava? japet|| 526*|| We would be grateful for any help. Dominic Goodall ?cole fran?aise d?Extr?me-Orient From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Nov 3 13:45:09 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 11 14:45:09 +0100 Subject: Gujarat Ayurveda University: online digitized manuscripts Message-ID: <161227094309.23782.13383624829020524628.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1163 Lines: 38 See - http://www.ayurvedamanuscripts.com The GAU collection is a join of the MSS assembled by Prof. P. M. Mehtaas part of the GAU Caraka edition and translation project (6 vols, 1949), and the collection of Jivar?ma K?lid?sa ??str? of the Rasa??strau?dah?laya in Gondal (=?r? Bhuvane?var? p??ha), that was catalogued in 1960 (Biswas entry 0349, Janert ABC entry 102) and later sold by Jivar?ma's son Ghanashyamji to the Government of Gujarat and relocated to GAU at Jamnagar. Not everything has been digitized, but mainly items on ayurveda and rasa??stra. The interface is pretty awful, and the staff at GAU know this and are actively working on an update. Best, Dominik -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies, University of Vienna, Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 1090 Vienna Austria Project: http://www.istb.univie.ac.at/caraka/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tccahill at LOYNO.EDU Fri Nov 4 17:40:10 2011 From: tccahill at LOYNO.EDU (Tim Cahill) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 11 12:40:10 -0500 Subject: book on Hindu Widow Marriage (B. Hatcher, 2012) Message-ID: <161227094312.23782.15777324470985063940.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2704 Lines: 69 Colleagues, For those interested in Hindu widow marriage or the Bengal Renaissance we have a new book by Brian Hatcher. It is available from Amazon or directly from Columbia University Press. See details below. best, Tim Cahill Loyola University New Orleans _Ishvarchandra Vidyasagar, Hindu Widow Marriage: An Epochal Work on Social Reform from Colonial India. A complete translation, with an introduction and critical notes_, by Brian A. Hatcher. New York: Columbia University Press, 2012. ISBN: 978-0-231-15633-2 (cloth) 978-0-231-52660-9 (e-books) In Hindu Widow Marriage Brian A. Hatcher provides the first complete translation of one of the most important treatises on social reform from nineteenth-century India. Originally composed in Bengali by the colonial Sanskrit scholar Ishvarchandra Vidyasagar, the work helped pave the way for passage of Act XV of 1856, granting Hindu widows the right to marry. While the importance of the work has long been noted, it has hitherto been little studied and never before translated in its entirety. In Hindu Widow Marriage readers will discover a virtuosic display of Hindu legal erudition, scriptural exegesis, and humanitarian rhetoric on behalf of the Hindu widow. Hindu Widow Marriage features a substantial introduction that provides background on the career of Vidyasagar, offers an overview of the history of the widow marriage movement, and advances an interpretation of the work's significance in relation to indigenous intellectual practice. Brian A. Hatcher is the author of three important monographs on colonial Bengal, including: (on Vidyasagar) Idioms of Improvement: Vidyasagar and Cultural Encounter in Bengal (Delhi: Oxford University Press, 1996) and the Tattvabodhini Sabha (Bourgeois Hinduism, or Faith of the Modern Vedantists: Rare Discourses from Early Colonial Bengal (New York: Oxford University Press, 2008), as well as Eclecticism and Modern Hindu Discourse (New York: Oxford University Press, 1999). He has edited (with Michael Dodson Trans-colonial Modernities in South Asia to be published in 2012 by Routledge. Table of Contents Preface A Word About the Translation Hindu Categories for First-Time Readers Chronology Events Pertaining to the Widow Marriage Movement in Bengal Introduction A Short Life of Ishvarchandra Vidyasagar Widow Marriage in Bengal Hindu Widow Marriage as Modern-Day Commentary The Real Significance of Hindu Widow Marriage Hindu Widow Marriage: The Complete English Translation Book One Book Two Glossary Bibliography Index of Sanskrit Passages Index of Names and Terms For further information please visit: http://www.cup.columbia.edu/book/978-0-231-15633-2/hindu-widow-marriage From acerulli at AYA.YALE.EDU Fri Nov 4 21:35:41 2011 From: acerulli at AYA.YALE.EDU (A.Cerulli) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 11 17:35:41 -0400 Subject: Khemraj Shrikrishnadass / Shri Venkateshwar Press Message-ID: <161227094317.23782.14461787872824084029.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 818 Lines: 31 Dear Colleagues, I am trying to check on permissions for an image (a black & white drawing) I'd like to reprint that came out in an edition of the Caraka Samhita with Shri Venkateshwar Press in 1898. I wrote to the press using an online contact form at the Khemraj Shrikrishnadass website, but received no response. Does anyone on the list have a contact at this press who might be able to help me? Also, re copyright laws, does anyone know if after a certain number of years an image in a book becomes part of the public domain? Thanks in advance for your assistance. All the best, Anthony Cerulli Hobart & William Smith Colleges -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Fri Nov 4 18:19:26 2011 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 11 19:19:26 +0100 Subject: Fwd: Christian Bouy Message-ID: <161227094314.23782.6024012938428199733.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2084 Lines: 70 -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Christian Bouy Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 19:05:38 +0100 From: Chantal Duhuy Chers amis lectrices et lecteurs, La biblioth?que de l'Institut d'?tudes indiennes du Coll?ge de France a le regret de vous annoncer le d?c?s de leur coll?gue et ami, Christian Bouy, survenu le jeudi 3 novembre 2011. Arriv? en septembre 1970 comme lecteur ? la biblioth?que de l'ICI (avenue du Pr?sident Wilson), il y avait fait toutes ses recherches et ?dit?, dans le cadre des publications de l'ICI, deux ouvrages : /Les Natha-Yogin et les Upanisads. Etude d'histoire de la litt?rature hindoue/. (fasc. 62, 1994) et /Gaudapada. L'Agamasastra. Un trait? vedantique en quatre chapitres. Texte, traduction et notes/ (fasc. 69, 2000). Depuis le d?part ? la retraite d'Elizabeth Eczet en 1999, il l'avait remplac?e l'ann?e suivante dans ses fonctions avec le titre de Ma?tre de conf?rences d'?tudes indiennes au Coll?ge de France. Bien connu des indianistes, il avait ? coeur de se montrer toujours accueillant et disponible envers ceux qui venaient le consulter pour leurs recherches portant sur des textes sanskrits (Vedanta, Upanisad). Son d?part laisse un grand vide ? la biblioth?que. Les obs?ques de M. Christan Bouy auront lieu le mardi 8 novembre ? 14h en l'?glise Saint L?on, Place du Cardinal Amette, rue Dupleix, Square de la Motte Picquet, 75015 Paris (M?tro Dupleix ou La Motte Picquet). L'inhumation aura lieu au cimeti?re de l'Eglise le Haut ? Taverny (95155). En signe d'amiti? ses coll?gues du Coll?ge de France pr?voient de faire livrer des fleurs ? l'?glise St. L?on. Si certains souhaitent s'associer ? cet hommage, ils peuvent d?poser leur participation (en esp?ces) ? l'Institut d'?tudes indiennes du CdF (bureaux 156, 256, 562) d'ici mardi matin. Amicales pens?es, Chantal Duhuy et Isabelle Szelagowski 01 44 27 18 10 ( CD) et 01 44 27 18 28 (IS) et 01 44 27 18 92 (R. Moreau ) PS : Un faire-part de d?c?s para?tra demain samedi 5 novembre dans le Monde et le Figaro. From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Sat Nov 5 14:30:15 2011 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 11 08:30:15 -0600 Subject: Query Message-ID: <161227094320.23782.17444633843546375140.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 228 Lines: 6 Would any of you know of an insect or small animal known in Sanskrit as "alojun?" (alojunaa) -- or something like that; the spelling is uncertain. See Kangle's Artha??stra 14.2.10 for the reference. Thanks. Patrick Olivelle From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Sat Nov 5 14:43:38 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 11 20:13:38 +0530 Subject: book on Hindu Widow Marriage (B. Hatcher, 2012) In-Reply-To: <4EB4237A.8070405@loyno.edu> Message-ID: <161227094323.23782.12698062498919896145.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4724 Lines: 87 While I congratulate the author for the translation, the remark is one-sided and hence materially wrong. It is not that only studies made in the West are real ones and others are not. The widow-marriage movement caused a big literature to be created in Bengal and later in other parts of India. It inspired intellectuals all over India in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century. Later, dramas and films too were produced on it. There is an awareness in Bengal of an awakening in the nineteenth century beginning with the movements against discrimination against women started by Raja Ram Mohan Roy. The early nineteenth century beginning was carried by Vidyasagar on to new heights.To the movement for women's emanicipation were added a host of related enlightened movements, urge for reforms and the birth of modern Bengali (and Indian) art and literature. The whole thing later came to be known as 'Bengal Renaissance'. There is a huge literature on this 'Bengal Renaissance'none of which ignores the contribution of Vidyasagar. I do not know what the translator has remarked. There seems to have been some ambivalence among conservative intellectuals who have tried, partly successfully, in underestimating Vidyasagar's influence on and role in shaping the modern Indian society.?? Perhaps this was caused by the fact that Vidyasagar was an atheist. Vidyasagar's partial ostracisation too is a noted fact here. Some noted writers on related topics were Shivnath Shastri, Dilip Biswas, Binay Ghosh etc. Best Dipak Bhattacharya ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Cahill To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Cc: Sent: Friday, 4 November 2011 11:10 PM Subject: [INDOLOGY] book on Hindu Widow Marriage (B. Hatcher, 2012) Colleagues, ? ? For those interested in Hindu widow marriage or the Bengal Renaissance we have a new book by Brian Hatcher.? It is available from Amazon or directly from Columbia University Press. See details below. best, Tim Cahill Loyola University New Orleans _Ishvarchandra Vidyasagar, Hindu Widow Marriage: An Epochal Work on Social Reform from Colonial India. A complete translation, with an introduction and critical notes_, by Brian A. Hatcher. New York: Columbia University Press, 2012. ISBN: 978-0-231-15633-2 (cloth) 978-0-231-52660-9 (e-books) In Hindu Widow Marriage Brian A. Hatcher provides the first complete translation of one of the most important treatises on social reform from nineteenth-century India. Originally composed in Bengali by the colonial Sanskrit scholar Ishvarchandra Vidyasagar, the work helped pave the way for passage of Act XV of 1856, granting Hindu widows the right to marry. While the importance of the work has long been noted, it has hitherto been little studied and never before translated in its entirety. In Hindu Widow Marriage readers will discover a virtuosic display of Hindu legal erudition, scriptural exegesis, and humanitarian rhetoric on behalf of the Hindu widow. Hindu Widow Marriage features a substantial introduction that provides background on the career of Vidyasagar, offers an overview of the history of the widow marriage movement, and advances an interpretation of the work's significance in relation to indigenous intellectual practice. Brian A. Hatcher is the author of three important monographs on colonial Bengal, including: (on Vidyasagar) Idioms of Improvement: Vidyasagar and Cultural Encounter in Bengal (Delhi: Oxford University Press, 1996) and the Tattvabodhini Sabha (Bourgeois Hinduism, or Faith of the Modern Vedantists: Rare Discourses from Early Colonial Bengal (New York: Oxford University Press, 2008), as well as Eclecticism and Modern Hindu Discourse (New York: Oxford University Press, 1999). He has edited (with Michael Dodson Trans-colonial Modernities in South Asia to be published in 2012 by Routledge. Table of Contents Preface A Word About the Translation Hindu Categories for First-Time Readers Chronology Events Pertaining to the Widow Marriage Movement in Bengal Introduction A Short Life of Ishvarchandra Vidyasagar Widow Marriage in Bengal Hindu Widow Marriage as Modern-Day Commentary The Real Significance of Hindu Widow Marriage Hindu Widow Marriage: The Complete English Translation Book One Book Two Glossary Bibliography Index of Sanskrit Passages Index of Names and Terms For further information please visit: http://www.cup.columbia.edu/book/978-0-231-15633-2/hindu-widow-marriage -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM Mon Nov 7 04:45:19 2011 From: venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM (venetia ansell) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 11 10:15:19 +0530 Subject: Khemraj Shrikrishnadass / Shri Venkateshwar Press In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094327.23782.4990074513075651239.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1330 Lines: 52 Dear Anthony, My limited understanding of Indian copyright law is that copyright expires either sixty years after the death of the author or sixty years after the publication of a work if it is published posthumously or if it is a photograph. So it would seem to be fine to re-use by either reckoning. Best, Venetia On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 3:05 AM, A.Cerulli wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > I am trying to check on permissions for an image (a black & white drawing) > I'd like to reprint that came out in an edition of the Caraka Samhita with > Shri Venkateshwar Press in 1898. > > > I wrote to the press using an online contact form at the Khemraj > Shrikrishnadass website, but received no response. > Does anyone on the list have a contact at this press who might be able to > help me? > > > Also, re copyright laws, does anyone know if after a certain number of > years an image in a book becomes part of the public domain? > > > > Thanks in advance for your assistance. > > > > All the best, > > Anthony Cerulli > > Hobart & William Smith Colleges > > > -- Venetia Ansell Bangalore | India www.venetiaansell.wordpress.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Mon Nov 7 16:36:22 2011 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 11 17:36:22 +0100 Subject: An untraced kArikA on demonstrative pronouns Message-ID: <161227094331.23782.1685031261076650694.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 829 Lines: 28 Dear members of the list >From which grammatical source is the following kArikA on demonstrative pronouns: idamaH pratyakSagataM samIpataravarti caitado rUpam | adasas tu viprakRSTe tad iti parokSe vijAnIyAt || quoted by R. Antoine, A Sanskrit Manual Part II, ? 168, and with variant readings pratyakSarUpaM / vaitado / viprakRSTaM by S. Speijer in his Sanskrit syntax p. 202 http://www.archive.org/details/cu31924023201183 where it is said that the kArikA "is quoted in a foot-note on p. 188 of ZrIrAmamayazarman's edition of MRcchakaTI (Majumd?r's series) " -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ http://www.uclouvain.be/356389.html -- Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of storage free. http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Nov 7 20:39:37 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 11 21:39:37 +0100 Subject: Khemraj Shrikrishnadass / Shri Venkateshwar Press In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094334.23782.4906657823328769613.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1916 Lines: 80 Dear Venetia, Have you got a reference for that? Best, Dominik -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies, University of Vienna, Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 1090 Vienna Austria Project | home page| PGP | Free Dropbox account On 7 November 2011 05:45, venetia ansell wrote: > Dear Anthony, > My limited understanding of Indian copyright law is that copyright expires > either sixty years after the death of the author or sixty years after the > publication of a work if it is published posthumously or if it is a > photograph. > So it would seem to be fine to re-use by either reckoning. > Best, > Venetia > > On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 3:05 AM, A.Cerulli wrote: > >> Dear Colleagues, >> I am trying to check on permissions for an image (a black & white >> drawing) I'd like to reprint that came out in an edition of the Caraka >> Samhita with Shri Venkateshwar Press in 1898. >> >> >> I wrote to the press using an online contact form at the Khemraj >> Shrikrishnadass website, but received no response. >> Does anyone on the list have a contact at this press who might be able to >> help me? >> >> >> Also, re copyright laws, does anyone know if after a certain number of >> years an image in a book becomes part of the public domain? >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance for your assistance. >> >> >> >> All the best, >> >> Anthony Cerulli >> >> Hobart & William Smith Colleges >> >> >> > > > > -- > Venetia Ansell > Bangalore | India > www.venetiaansell.wordpress.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Tue Nov 8 07:56:43 2011 From: kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Birgit Kellner) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 11 08:56:43 +0100 Subject: Khemraj Shrikrishnadass / Shri Venkateshwar Press In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094354.23782.8015144850020190982.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3797 Lines: 105 Incidentally, the greater weight on originality and creativity - and individuality - is also a feature of copyright in the European Union. In Germany, for instance, critical editions are not protected by copyright (though introductions and annotation may be, depending on their character), but subject to a shorter period of protection of 25 years. Though this may sound offensive to those of us who put a lot of (creative and original, no doubt) work into editing, it is a great advantage for making Sanskrit texts available in digital format in the public domain, using more recent scholarly editions. Best, Birgit Am 08.11.2011 06:11, schrieb venetia ansell: > Hi Dominik, > I had a discussion recently with an ex copyright lawyer here in Bangalore and based on that and reading a little about it on the internet (for instance the Wikipedia article on Indian copyright law here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_India) that would be my guess but it would be best to get a proper legal opinion on this. > Incidentally, I asked whether textual/critical editions are copyrighted and in that connection my contact here noted that a recent change in Indian copyright law in 2007 means that creativity and originality are given more weightage than they used to be - it used to be based more on 'sweat of the brow'. > Best, > Venetia > > On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:09 AM, Dominik Wujastyk> wrote: > Dear Venetia, > > Have you got a reference for that? > > Best, > Dominik > > > > -- > Dr Dominik Wujastyk > Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies, > University of Vienna, > Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 > 1090 Vienna > Austria > Project | home page | PGP | Free Dropbox account > > > > > On 7 November 2011 05:45, venetia ansell> wrote: > Dear Anthony, > My limited understanding of Indian copyright law is that copyright expires either sixty years after the death of the author or sixty years after the publication of a work if it is published posthumously or if it is a photograph. > So it would seem to be fine to re-use by either reckoning. > Best, > Venetia > > On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 3:05 AM, A.Cerulli> wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > I am trying to check on permissions for an image (a black& white drawing) I'd like to reprint that came out in an edition of the Caraka Samhita with Shri Venkateshwar Press in 1898. > > I wrote to the press using an online contact form at the Khemraj Shrikrishnadass website, but received no response. > Does anyone on the list have a contact at this press who might be able to help me? > > Also, re copyright laws, does anyone know if after a certain number of years an image in a book becomes part of the public domain? > > Thanks in advance for your assistance. > > All the best, > Anthony Cerulli > Hobart& William Smith Colleges > > > > > -- > Venetia Ansell > Bangalore | India > www.venetiaansell.wordpress.com > > > > > > -- > Venetia Ansell > Bangalore | India > www.venetiaansell.wordpress.com > > -- -------- Prof. Dr. Birgit Kellner Chair in Buddhist Studies Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context - Shifting Asymmetries in Cultural Flows" University of Heidelberg Karl Jaspers Centre Vossstra?e 2, Building 4400 D-69115 Heidelberg Phone: +49(0)6221 - 54 4301 Fax: +49(0)6221 - 54 4012 http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/en/home.html From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Tue Nov 8 03:50:17 2011 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 11 09:20:17 +0530 Subject: An untraced kArikA on demonstrative pronouns In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094338.23782.2723263223801168620.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1215 Lines: 37 Dear Christophe, This is neither about the ultimate source, nor about a likely proximate one, but it might be interesting to know that a very similar verse is quoted in the halantapu?li?ga-prakara?a of the Prau?hamanoram?. Yours, Dominic Dominic Goodall ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient On 07-Nov-2011, at 10:06 PM, Christophe Vielle wrote: > Dear members of the list > > From which grammatical source is the following kArikA on demonstrative pronouns: > > idamaH pratyakSagataM samIpataravarti caitado rUpam | > adasas tu viprakRSTe tad iti parokSe vijAnIyAt || > > quoted by R. Antoine, A Sanskrit Manual Part II, ? 168, > > and with variant readings pratyakSarUpaM / vaitado / viprakRSTaM > by S. Speijer in his Sanskrit syntax p. 202 > http://www.archive.org/details/cu31924023201183 > where it is said that the kArikA "is quoted in a foot-note on p. 188 of ZrIrAmamayazarman's edition of MRcchakaTI (Majumd?r's series) " > -- > http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle > http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ > http://www.uclouvain.be/356389.html > > -- > Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of > storage free. > http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ From venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM Tue Nov 8 05:11:11 2011 From: venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM (venetia ansell) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 11 10:41:11 +0530 Subject: Khemraj Shrikrishnadass / Shri Venkateshwar Press In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094342.23782.14816017236064691995.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2832 Lines: 102 Hi Dominik, I had a discussion recently with an ex copyright lawyer here in Bangalore and based on that and reading a little about it on the internet (for instance the Wikipedia article on Indian copyright law here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_India) that would be my guess but it would be best to get a proper legal opinion on this. Incidentally, I asked whether textual/critical editions are copyrighted and in that connection my contact here noted that a recent change in Indian copyright law in 2007 means that creativity and originality are given more weightage than they used to be - it used to be based more on 'sweat of the brow'. Best, Venetia On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:09 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Dear Venetia, > > Have you got a reference for that? > > Best, > Dominik > > > > -- > Dr Dominik Wujastyk > Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies, > University of Vienna, > Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 > 1090 Vienna > Austria > Project | home page| > PGP | Free Dropbox account > > > > > > On 7 November 2011 05:45, venetia ansell wrote: > >> Dear Anthony, >> My limited understanding of Indian copyright law is that copyright >> expires either sixty years after the death of the author or sixty years >> after the publication of a work if it is published posthumously or if it is >> a photograph. >> So it would seem to be fine to re-use by either reckoning. >> Best, >> Venetia >> >> On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 3:05 AM, A.Cerulli wrote: >> >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> I am trying to check on permissions for an image (a black & white >>> drawing) I'd like to reprint that came out in an edition of the Caraka >>> Samhita with Shri Venkateshwar Press in 1898. >>> >>> >>> I wrote to the press using an online contact form at the Khemraj >>> Shrikrishnadass website, but received no response. >>> Does anyone on the list have a contact at this press who might be able >>> to help me? >>> >>> >>> Also, re copyright laws, does anyone know if after a certain number of >>> years an image in a book becomes part of the public domain? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks in advance for your assistance. >>> >>> >>> >>> All the best, >>> >>> Anthony Cerulli >>> >>> Hobart & William Smith Colleges >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Venetia Ansell >> Bangalore | India >> www.venetiaansell.wordpress.com >> >> > -- Venetia Ansell Bangalore | India www.venetiaansell.wordpress.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From manufrancis at GMAIL.COM Tue Nov 8 10:07:55 2011 From: manufrancis at GMAIL.COM (Emmanuel Francis) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 11 11:07:55 +0100 Subject: PhD Scholarship Message-ID: <161227094357.23782.10748108346975978320.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 356 Lines: 14 Dear list members, See the following link for PhD scholarships offered by the Centre for the Study Manuscript Cultures (CSCM) of the University of Hamburg "in all disciplines studying manuscript cultures regardless of region": http://www.academics.de/jobs/6_ph_d_scholarships_66931.html E. Francis CSCM, Universit?t Hamburg CEIAS, Paris (EHESS-CNRS) From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Tue Nov 8 05:41:13 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 11 11:11:13 +0530 Subject: Khemraj Shrikrishnadass / Shri Venkateshwar Press In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094346.23782.12528626839094350123.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3600 Lines: 111 08 11 11 Dear Colleague, In 1991 consequent to the lapse of 50 years after his death the copyright of Tagore?s works would have ceased to exist. The law was changed to increase it by 10 years. It was not further increased after 2001. While publishing an early nineteenth century engraving in a London journal I enquired about the copyright laws in the U.K. The information that the copyright existed for 70 years after the author?s death came with the remark that it was more stringent in the U.K. than in India. If the thing is archived, a picture and, inferably, the exact get up of the book come under permanent copyright rules both in the U.K. and in India. As far as I know there is no law prohibiting modified versions even of archived single-copy books. Best DB ________________________________ From: venetia ansell To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Khemraj Shrikrishnadass / Shri Venkateshwar Press Hi Dominik, I had a discussion recently with an ex copyright lawyer here in Bangalore and based on that and reading a little about it on the internet (for instance the Wikipedia article on Indian copyright law here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_India) that would be my guess but it would be best to get a proper legal opinion on this. Incidentally,?I asked?whether textual/critical editions are copyrighted and in that connection my contact here noted that a recent change in Indian copyright law in 2007 means that creativity and originality are given more weightage than they used to be?- it used to be based more on 'sweat of the brow'. Best, Venetia On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:09 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: Dear Venetia, > >Have you got a reference for that? > >Best, >Dominik > > > >-- >Dr Dominik Wujastyk >Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies, >University of Vienna, >Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 >1090 Vienna >Austria >Project| home page | PGP | Free Dropbox account > > > > > >On 7 November 2011 05:45, venetia ansell wrote: > >Dear Anthony, >>My limited understanding of Indian copyright law?is that copyright expires either sixty years after the death of the author or sixty years after the publication of a work if it is published posthumously or if it is a photograph. >>So it would seem to be fine to re-use by either reckoning. >>Best, >>Venetia >> >> >>On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 3:05 AM, A.Cerulli wrote: >> >>Dear Colleagues, I am trying to check on permissions for an image (a black & white drawing) I'd like to reprint that came out in an edition of the Caraka Samhita with Shri Venkateshwar Press in 1898. >>>?I wrote to the press using an online contact form at the Khemraj Shrikrishnadass website, but received no response.? >>>Does anyone on the list have a contact at this press who might be able to help me? >>>? >>> >>>Also, re copyright laws, does anyone know if after a certain number of years an image in a book becomes part of the public domain? >>>? >>>Thanks in advance for your assistance. >>>? >>>All the best, >>>Anthony Cerulli >>>Hobart & William Smith Colleges >>> >>>? >> >> >>-- >> >>Venetia Ansell >>Bangalore | India >>www.venetiaansell.wordpress.com >> > -- Venetia Ansell Bangalore | India www.venetiaansell.wordpress.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Nov 8 11:56:52 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 11 12:56:52 +0100 Subject: Khemraj Shrikrishnadass / Shri Venkateshwar Press In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094360.23782.16670507664326165853.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3278 Lines: 115 Thanks, Venetia, this is very useful. I didn't know about the Wikipedia page. I don't understand your contact's reply to your query about critical editions. What does the 2007 change mean for editions? More stringent protection, or less? Dominik On 8 November 2011 06:11, venetia ansell wrote: > Hi Dominik, > I had a discussion recently with an ex copyright lawyer here in Bangalore > and based on that and reading a little about it on the internet (for > instance the Wikipedia article on Indian copyright law here: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_India) that would be my > guess but it would be best to get a proper legal opinion on this. > Incidentally, I asked whether textual/critical editions are copyrighted > and in that connection my contact here noted that a recent change in Indian > copyright law in 2007 means that creativity and originality are given more > weightage than they used to be - it used to be based more on 'sweat of the > brow'. > Best, > Venetia > > On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:09 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > >> Dear Venetia, >> >> Have you got a reference for that? >> >> Best, >> Dominik >> >> >> >> -- >> Dr Dominik Wujastyk >> Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies, >> University of Vienna, >> Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 >> 1090 Vienna >> Austria >> Project | home page| >> PGP | Free Dropbox account >> >> >> >> >> >> On 7 November 2011 05:45, venetia ansell wrote: >> >>> Dear Anthony, >>> My limited understanding of Indian copyright law is that copyright >>> expires either sixty years after the death of the author or sixty years >>> after the publication of a work if it is published posthumously or if it is >>> a photograph. >>> So it would seem to be fine to re-use by either reckoning. >>> Best, >>> Venetia >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 3:05 AM, A.Cerulli wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Colleagues, >>>> I am trying to check on permissions for an image (a black & white >>>> drawing) I'd like to reprint that came out in an edition of the Caraka >>>> Samhita with Shri Venkateshwar Press in 1898. >>>> >>>> >>>> I wrote to the press using an online contact form at the Khemraj >>>> Shrikrishnadass website, but received no response. >>>> Does anyone on the list have a contact at this press who might be able >>>> to help me? >>>> >>>> >>>> Also, re copyright laws, does anyone know if after a certain number of >>>> years an image in a book becomes part of the public domain? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance for your assistance. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> All the best, >>>> >>>> Anthony Cerulli >>>> >>>> Hobart & William Smith Colleges >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Venetia Ansell >>> Bangalore | India >>> www.venetiaansell.wordpress.com >>> >>> >> > > > -- > Venetia Ansell > Bangalore | India > www.venetiaansell.wordpress.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From acerulli at AYA.YALE.EDU Tue Nov 8 20:05:52 2011 From: acerulli at AYA.YALE.EDU (A.Cerulli) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 11 15:05:52 -0500 Subject: Khemraj Shrikrishnadass / Shri Venkateshwar Press In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094369.23782.9228891114183844860.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 300 Lines: 10 Thank you to everyone who responded to my enquiry on and off the list. The information is very useful. Best wishes, Anthony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From e.demichelis at YMAIL.COM Tue Nov 8 16:17:10 2011 From: e.demichelis at YMAIL.COM (Elizabeth De Michelis) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 11 16:17:10 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Visuddhimagga_in_Bhikkhu_=C3=91=C4=81=E1=B9=87amoli's______________trans_lation_available_for_free_download?= Message-ID: <161227094363.23782.16501470821113004269.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 732 Lines: 21 Dear All, a piece of information that may be of interest to yourselves and your students: Buddhaghosa's Visuddhimagga - The Path of Purification: The Classic Manual of Buddhist Doctrine and Meditation, translated by Bhikkhu ???amoli (4th edition) is available for free dowload here: www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanamoli/PathofPurification2011.pdf And btw the site's 'file not found' page is quite fun: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/.../.../PathofPurification2011.pdf best wishes Elizabeth De Michelis (independent scholar, Cambridge UK) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Tue Nov 8 07:03:04 2011 From: McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 11 18:03:04 +1100 Subject: Hindi Short Film Competition In-Reply-To: <7580c8ad40e6c.4eb8d3d2@anu.edu.au> Message-ID: <161227094350.23782.10246211076825089556.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 824 Lines: 24 The Australian National University is offering a prize of $500 for the best five-minute short film by Hindi language students. Details available here: http://www.youtube.com/user/hindishortfilmcomp Please circulate this as widely as possible around Hindi-teaching colleagues With thanks in advance McComas -- McComas Taylor Head, South Asia Program ANU College of Asia and the Pacific Tel: +61 2 6125 3179 Location: Baldessin Precinct Building, 4.24 Website: McComas Taylor(http://arktos.anu.edu.au/chill/index.php/mct)Courses: Learn about some of my courses:? Sanskrit 1(http://www.screenr.com/NSBs)? |? Indian Epics(http://screenr.com/uUBs) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From manufrancis at GMAIL.COM Tue Nov 8 19:09:40 2011 From: manufrancis at GMAIL.COM (Emmanuel Francis) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 11 20:09:40 +0100 Subject: Sad news about Christian Bouy Message-ID: <161227094367.23782.13255364442008120473.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 641 Lines: 21 Dear list members, I have the sad duty to let you know that Christian Bouy has passed away on November 3. His funeral took place today November 8 in Paris. Christian Bouy was Ma?tre de conf?rences d'?tudes indiennes at the Coll?ge de France and a specialist in Indian philosophy. He was well known to the users of the Biblioth?ques d'Extr?me-Orient at the Coll?ge de France, where he supervised the cataloguing of the collections of the Institut d'?tudes indiennes. His CV and list of publications are available at http://modernyogaresearch.org/people/dr-christian-bouy/ E. Francis CSCM, Universit?t Hamburg CEIAS, Paris (EHESS-CNRS) From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Nov 9 22:49:53 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 11 23:49:53 +0100 Subject: Translate more Indic languages with the updated Google Translate for iPhone app Message-ID: <161227094373.23782.12124230865126725250.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1541 Lines: 31 >?From the Google Mobile blog: ---- begin quote ---- Back in June, we launched five new experimental Indic languages for Google Translateon the desktop and mobile webapp. Today, we?ve updated the Google Translate for iPhone appto add these new alpha languages: Bengali, Gujarati, Kannada, Tamil and Telugu. This brings the total number of languages supported by the app to 63 languages.* * The updated app supports the ability to view dictionary results for single words and to display romanizations for these new Indic languages. So even if you can?t read the script the words are written in, you can still take a shot at reading the translation. ---- end quote ---- See full post here . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Nov 9 23:07:06 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 11 00:07:06 +0100 Subject: Join Forces for Social Sciences and Humanities in Europe Message-ID: <161227094376.23782.9836466348333778771.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 923 Lines: 28 There's a petition addressed to the European Commissioner for Research and Innovation, aimed at encouraging the EU's biggest research funding body to offer more support for research in the humanities and social sciences. More background here: www.eash.eu/openletter2011/index.php?file=background.htm Main website here: http://www.eash.eu/openletter2011 I've signed. Best, -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies, University of Vienna, Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 1090 Vienna Austria Project | home page| PGP | Free Dropbox account -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE Thu Nov 10 00:00:58 2011 From: zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE (Robert Zydenbos) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 11 01:00:58 +0100 Subject: Join Forces for Social Sciences and Humanities in Europe In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094379.23782.12752274145816133179.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 665 Lines: 24 Me too. On Nov 10, 2011, at 12:07 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > There's a petition addressed to the European Commissioner for Research and Innovation, aimed at encouraging the EU's biggest research funding body to offer more support for research in the humanities and social sciences. > > More background here: www.eash.eu/openletter2011/index.php?file=background.htm > > Main website here: http://www.eash.eu/openletter2011 > > I've signed. Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Institute of Indology and Tibetology Department of Asian Studies University of Munich Germany Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827 Web http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~zydenbos From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Thu Nov 10 12:49:00 2011 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 11 06:49:00 -0600 Subject: Tibetan textbook In-Reply-To: <000001cc9f91$15160260$3f420720$@br> Message-ID: <161227094392.23782.16010388788825732651.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 816 Lines: 30 Textbook: Stephen Hodge, An Introduction to Classical Tibetan or, if you read German, Michael Hahn, Lehrbuch der klassischen tibetischen Schriftsprache Both are particularly good for the translation literature. Grammar: Marcelle Lalou, Manuel ?l?mentaire de tib?tain classique or Jacques Bacot, Grammaire du Tib?tain litt?raire and, though it has its problems, Stephen Beyer, The Classical Tibetan Language Dictionary: start with Jaeschke, and avoid Das until you are familiar with the former. Many online resources have become available, but they are not geared toward the translation literature and are often misleading in this area. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU Thu Nov 10 13:06:43 2011 From: ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Paul Hackett) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 11 08:06:43 -0500 Subject: Tibetan textbook In-Reply-To: <000001cc9f91$15160260$3f420720$@br> Message-ID: <161227094395.23782.18393279616946203244.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3790 Lines: 26 Dear Adriano, On Nov 10, 2011, at 5:11 AM, Adriano Aprigliano wrote: > Which textbook (as well as a grammar and dictionary) would you > recommend for classical Tibetan, especially the translation literature? Unfortunately, there aren't any real textbooks for classical Tibetan literature. There have been attempts over the years to publish various "readers," but the authors usually lacked a sufficient command of Tibetan grammar to make them very useful. At present there are only two textbook projects underway that I am aware of: my own work geared specifically towards classical Tibetan religious & philosophical literature (_A Classical Tibetan Reader_, to be published by Snow Lion), and another by Matthew Kapstein which I believe is more generic in scope (I have not actually seen it, so cannot say). Neither one is published. Regarding grammar presentations, the two best ones are Michael Hahn's _Textbook of Classical Literary Tibetan_, portions of which seem to be available online at Harvard: http://isites.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k41868&pageid=icb.page196202 and Joe Wilson's _Translating Buddhism From Tibetan_ (Ithaca: Snow Lion). Although Hahn's book gives an excellent concise overview of the components of Tibetan grammar, it is weak on the practicalities of dissecting the more idiosyncratic Tibetan sentence formations, particularly those seen in the philosophical literature. For this reason, although Hahn's is a useful resource to have, I am more partial to Joe Wilson's textbook since it offers a systematic presentation of Tibetan grammar specifically geared both to classical Tibetan literature and pedagogically for students interested in practical advice for translating. Other presentations either attempt to include theoretical linguistic models which tend to be not very useful, or worse yet, conflate literary Tibetan with colloquial Tibetan, which simply confuses the issue (they are sufficiently distinct) leading to a watered-down, lowest-common-denominator presentation that loses may key attributes of dealing exclusively with literary classical Tibetan. Be aware that Wilson's book is geared specifically towards translating Tibetan into English. If you goal is translating into Portuguese, his approach will undoubtedly require some reformulation. As for dictionaries, it is much more difficult. Believe it or not, one of the best dictionaries for classical Tibetan is still Sarat Chadra Das, _Tibetan-English Dictionary_ (1902), available from several publishers in India. The only weakness is its coverage of tantra and the more abstruse philosophical vocabulary. Jeffrey Hopkins's dictionary was an attempt to rectify this lacuna regarding tantra and philosophy, but it is not yet published and currently only an old only version is available online from the University of Virginia as part of the "Tibetan Dictionary Tool" (though be advise that the bulk of the data there is more quantity than quality and needs to be used with some caution). I published a dictionary of Tibetan verbs a few years ago (_A Tibetan Verb Lexicon_ Ithaca: Snow Lion, 2003) as both a ready reference and prolegomenon to my "Classical Tibetan Reader" designed to be used in conjunction with Joe Wilson textbook, and which students tell me they find quite useful, though it has its own limitations as well (a second edition will require several more years of work). Otherwise, there is the Tibetan-Tibetan-Chinese Dictionary from almost twenty years ago, but it is not for novice students, requiring a certain degree of facility in Tibetan to be useful and even then it is very weak in terms of philosophical vocabulary and is geared much more towards generic literature. Hope that helps. Best, Paul Hackett Columbia University From aprigliano at USP.BR Thu Nov 10 10:11:11 2011 From: aprigliano at USP.BR (Adriano Aprigliano) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 11 08:11:11 -0200 Subject: Tibetan textbook Message-ID: <161227094386.23782.3787492545376960035.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 397 Lines: 22 Dear list members, Which textbook (as well as a grammar and dictionary) would you recommend for classical Tibetan, especially the translation literature? Best wishes Adriano Aprigliano USP, S?o Paulo, Brazil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM Thu Nov 10 04:45:17 2011 From: venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM (venetia ansell) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 11 10:15:17 +0530 Subject: Khemraj Shrikrishnadass / Shri Venkateshwar Press In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094382.23782.6134897057289816975.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4399 Lines: 141 I didn't get a conclusive answer either way, Dominik, or at least not one that I was able to fully comprehend. There was apparently a case in 1889 in which a publisher created an edition of a text in which passages were re-arranged, and footnotes and references from similar works added. Someone then re-published the text with the same editions and footnotes with minor differences. The court found in favour of the original publisher on the basis that although the text itself could not be considered copyrighted, the additions and alterations, and the new arrangement of the text, was. So this is evidently not a new problem. I suppose footnotes, endnotes and any other additions - as opposed to the edition of the text itself - would have a much stronger case for protection anywhere. Thank you Birgit for noting how it works in Germany. On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 5:26 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Thanks, Venetia, this is very useful. I didn't know about the Wikipedia > page. > > I don't understand your contact's reply to your query about critical > editions. What does the 2007 change mean for editions? More stringent > protection, or less? > > Dominik > > > On 8 November 2011 06:11, venetia ansell wrote: > >> Hi Dominik, >> I had a discussion recently with an ex copyright lawyer here in Bangalore >> and based on that and reading a little about it on the internet (for >> instance the Wikipedia article on Indian copyright law here: >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_India) that would be my >> guess but it would be best to get a proper legal opinion on this. >> Incidentally, I asked whether textual/critical editions are copyrighted >> and in that connection my contact here noted that a recent change in Indian >> copyright law in 2007 means that creativity and originality are given more >> weightage than they used to be - it used to be based more on 'sweat of the >> brow'. >> Best, >> Venetia >> >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:09 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >> >>> Dear Venetia, >>> >>> Have you got a reference for that? >>> >>> Best, >>> Dominik >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dr Dominik Wujastyk >>> Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies, >>> University of Vienna, >>> Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 >>> 1090 Vienna >>> Austria >>> Project | home page| >>> PGP | Free Dropbox account >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 7 November 2011 05:45, venetia ansell wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Anthony, >>>> My limited understanding of Indian copyright law is that copyright >>>> expires either sixty years after the death of the author or sixty years >>>> after the publication of a work if it is published posthumously or if it is >>>> a photograph. >>>> So it would seem to be fine to re-use by either reckoning. >>>> Best, >>>> Venetia >>>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 3:05 AM, A.Cerulli wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Colleagues, >>>>> I am trying to check on permissions for an image (a black & white >>>>> drawing) I'd like to reprint that came out in an edition of the Caraka >>>>> Samhita with Shri Venkateshwar Press in 1898. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I wrote to the press using an online contact form at the Khemraj >>>>> Shrikrishnadass website, but received no response. >>>>> Does anyone on the list have a contact at this press who might be able >>>>> to help me? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Also, re copyright laws, does anyone know if after a certain number of >>>>> years an image in a book becomes part of the public domain? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks in advance for your assistance. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> All the best, >>>>> >>>>> Anthony Cerulli >>>>> >>>>> Hobart & William Smith Colleges >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Venetia Ansell >>>> Bangalore | India >>>> www.venetiaansell.wordpress.com >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Venetia Ansell >> Bangalore | India >> www.venetiaansell.wordpress.com >> >> > -- Venetia Ansell Bangalore | India www.venetiaansell.wordpress.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Thu Nov 10 10:43:40 2011 From: kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Birgit Kellner) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 11 11:43:40 +0100 Subject: FYI: Journal of the International Association of Buddhist Studies (JIABS): new website and free online access to journal content Message-ID: <161227094389.23782.11886246227222094713.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1659 Lines: 46 Dear colleagues (apologies for cross-posting), the Journal of the International Association of Buddhist Studies (JIABS, ISSN: 0193-600X) has a new website, hosted by the University Library of Heidelberg: http://archiv.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/ojs/index.php/jiabs/index The website offers full and free online access to the journal. Tables of contents are available for all issues; articles are made available 60 months after their appearance in print. Currently issues 1 (1978) to 28/2 (2005) are fully accessible, and searchable. Articles published up to 1999 have been scanned and run through automatic OCR - full-text search is therefore possible, but limited especially when it comes to transliterations of Asian languages. For more recent articles the journal's production files are used. The website also offers RSS and Atom feeds. The Journal of the International Association of Buddhist Studies (ISSN 0-193-600XX) is the organ of the International Association of Buddhist Studies. The JIABS welcomes scholarly contributions in all areas of Buddhist Studies. A double-blind peer-review process is used to ensure the high academic quality of all contributions. With best regards, Birgit Kellner (co-editor, with Helmut Krasser of the Austrian Academy of Sciences) ------------- Prof. Dr. Birgit Kellner Chair in Buddhist Studies Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context - Shifting Asymmetries in Cultural Flows" University of Heidelberg Karl Jaspers Centre Vossstra?e 2, Building 4400 D-69115 Heidelberg Phone: +49(0)6221 - 54 4301 Fax: +49(0)6221 - 54 4012 http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/en/home.html From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Nov 10 13:17:46 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 11 14:17:46 +0100 Subject: FYI: Journal of the International Association of Buddhist Studies (JIABS): new website and free online access to journal content In-Reply-To: <4EBBAADC.4010309@asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de> Message-ID: <161227094398.23782.4601628698004343026.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4611 Lines: 107 The new site is very smart. Nice to see the free, open source Open Journal System in use. And having Open Access for the older journal content is wonderful. Thank you! I am looking forward to more and more leading journals in our field adopting the OA policy. It is so important, for many reasons, but especially if scholars in developing countries are to be able to share in an awareness of the most exciting and important new scholarly advances. Given this, it is a pity that the JIABS has adopted a five-year moving block on access. This would have been a perfect moment to flip to a new, fully Open Access model of publication. Does scrutiny of the society's (or the library's) finances, weighed against its mission of promoting important scholarship, truly justify this wall? I find it hard to believe that the society really benefits from this in a deep structural way. Could the financial benefits coming from the five-year wall - if any - not be recovered through imaginative advertising, publisher promotions, user donations, sponsorship, selling space, or other means, or even just a reduction to a one-year wall? There's a substantial literature on the financial models that underly Open Access publishing, and many important journals have overcome the hurdles of flipping from older financial models to true open-access distribution (Doaj alone lists 7275 such journals as of today). The University of Pittsburgh offers free support and publication for any academic journal that adopts the full Open Access model (see here), and it is widely expected that this model of learned journal publication will grow. It seems particularly unfortunate that the very first entry one sees on consulting the fine new site is an obituary that can't be read by non-members until 2016. But forgetting my grumbles, this is a great initiative, and will surely bring the scholarship published by JIABS to a much wider readership. Congratulations to everyone involved. Best, Dominik -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies, University of Vienna, Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 1090 Vienna Austria Project | home page| PGP | Free Dropbox account On 10 November 2011 11:43, Birgit Kellner < kellner at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote: > Dear colleagues (apologies for cross-posting), > > the Journal of the International Association of Buddhist Studies (JIABS, > ISSN: 0193-600X) has a new website, hosted by the University Library of > Heidelberg: > > http://archiv.ub.uni-**heidelberg.de/ojs/index.php/**jiabs/index > > The website offers full and free online access to the journal. Tables of > contents are available for all issues; articles are made available 60 > months after their appearance in print. > > Currently issues 1 (1978) to 28/2 (2005) are fully accessible, and > searchable. Articles published up to 1999 have been scanned and run > through automatic OCR - full-text search is therefore possible, but limited > especially when it comes to transliterations of Asian languages. For more > recent articles the journal's production files are used. The website also > offers RSS and Atom feeds. > > The Journal of the International Association of Buddhist Studies (ISSN > 0-193-600XX) is the organ of the International Association of Buddhist > Studies. The JIABS welcomes scholarly contributions in all areas of > Buddhist Studies. A double-blind peer-review process is used to ensure the > high academic quality of all contributions. > > With best regards, > > Birgit Kellner (co-editor, with Helmut Krasser of the Austrian Academy of > Sciences) > > ------------- > > Prof. Dr. Birgit Kellner > Chair in Buddhist Studies > Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context - Shifting > Asymmetries in Cultural Flows" > University of Heidelberg > Karl Jaspers Centre > Vossstra?e 2, Building 4400 > D-69115 Heidelberg > Phone: +49(0)6221 - 54 4301 > Fax: +49(0)6221 - 54 4012 > http://www.asia-europe.uni-**heidelberg.de/en/home.html > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Thu Nov 10 20:31:05 2011 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 11 14:31:05 -0600 Subject: Tibetan textbook In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094409.23782.9113929835354853062.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 411 Lines: 14 Tony Duff's work is quite useful for indigenous Tibetan religious writing. It is not philologically controlled, however, in relation to the translation literature, whether with respect to originally Sanskrit, Chinese or other source texts. Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Nov 10 16:08:56 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 11 17:08:56 +0100 Subject: Tibetan textbook In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094406.23782.5746111392234397653.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4343 Lines: 84 this exchange about materials for learning Tibetan would be a perfect addition to the FAQ.indology.info. Would anyone be willing to do the cut-n-paste, with light editing? Dominik On 10 November 2011 14:06, Paul Hackett wrote: > Dear Adriano, > > On Nov 10, 2011, at 5:11 AM, Adriano Aprigliano wrote: > > > Which textbook (as well as a grammar and dictionary) would you > > recommend for classical Tibetan, especially the translation literature? > > Unfortunately, there aren't any real textbooks for classical Tibetan > literature. There have been attempts over the years to publish various > "readers," but the authors usually lacked a sufficient command of Tibetan > grammar to make them very useful. At present there are only two textbook > projects underway that I am aware of: my own work geared specifically > towards classical Tibetan religious & philosophical literature (_A > Classical Tibetan Reader_, to be published by Snow Lion), and another by > Matthew Kapstein which I believe is more generic in scope (I have not > actually seen it, so cannot say). Neither one is published. > > Regarding grammar presentations, the two best ones are Michael Hahn's > _Textbook of Classical Literary Tibetan_, portions of which seem to be > available online at Harvard: > > http://isites.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k41868&pageid=icb.page196202 > > and Joe Wilson's _Translating Buddhism From Tibetan_ (Ithaca: Snow Lion). > Although Hahn's book gives an excellent concise overview of the components > of Tibetan grammar, it is weak on the practicalities of dissecting the more > idiosyncratic Tibetan sentence formations, particularly those seen in the > philosophical literature. For this reason, although Hahn's is a useful > resource to have, I am more partial to Joe Wilson's textbook since it > offers a systematic presentation of Tibetan grammar specifically geared > both to classical Tibetan literature and pedagogically for students > interested in practical advice for translating. Other presentations either > attempt to include theoretical linguistic models which tend to be not very > useful, or worse yet, conflate literary Tibetan with colloquial Tibetan, > which simply confuses the issue (they are sufficiently distinct) leading to > a watered-down, lowest-common-denominator presentation that loses may key > attributes of dealing exclusively with literary classical Tibetan. Be > aware that Wilson's book is geared specifically towards translating Tibetan > into English. If you goal is translating into Portuguese, his approach > will undoubtedly require some reformulation. > > As for dictionaries, it is much more difficult. Believe it or not, one > of the best dictionaries for classical Tibetan is still Sarat Chadra Das, > _Tibetan-English Dictionary_ (1902), available from several publishers in > India. The only weakness is its coverage of tantra and the more abstruse > philosophical vocabulary. Jeffrey Hopkins's dictionary was an attempt to > rectify this lacuna regarding tantra and philosophy, but it is not yet > published and currently only an old only version is available online from > the University of Virginia as part of the "Tibetan Dictionary Tool" (though > be advise that the bulk of the data there is more quantity than quality and > needs to be used with some caution). I published a dictionary of Tibetan > verbs a few years ago (_A Tibetan Verb Lexicon_ Ithaca: Snow Lion, 2003) as > both a ready reference and prolegomenon to my "Classical Tibetan Reader" > designed to be used in conjunction with Joe Wilson textbook, and which > students tell me they find quite useful, though it has its own limitations > as well (a second edition will require several more years of work). > Otherwise, there is the Tibetan-Tibetan-Chinese Dictionary from almost > twenty years ago, but it is not for novice students, requiring a certain > degree of facility in Tibetan to be useful and even then it is very weak in > terms of philosophical vocabulary and is geared much more towards generic > literature. > > Hope that helps. > > Best, > > Paul Hackett > Columbia University > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM Thu Nov 10 16:29:14 2011 From: james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM (James Hartzell) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 11 17:29:14 +0100 Subject: Tibetan textbook In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094402.23782.691774513503105419.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4519 Lines: 95 Dear colleagues Might someone comment on the dictionary produced by Tony Duff and team, 'the Illuminator' and related reference works on Tibetan grammar from his group? Thanks On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Paul Hackett wrote: > Dear Adriano, > > On Nov 10, 2011, at 5:11 AM, Adriano Aprigliano wrote: > > > Which textbook (as well as a grammar and dictionary) would you > > recommend for classical Tibetan, especially the translation literature? > > Unfortunately, there aren't any real textbooks for classical Tibetan > literature. There have been attempts over the years to publish various > "readers," but the authors usually lacked a sufficient command of Tibetan > grammar to make them very useful. At present there are only two textbook > projects underway that I am aware of: my own work geared specifically > towards classical Tibetan religious & philosophical literature (_A > Classical Tibetan Reader_, to be published by Snow Lion), and another by > Matthew Kapstein which I believe is more generic in scope (I have not > actually seen it, so cannot say). Neither one is published. > > Regarding grammar presentations, the two best ones are Michael Hahn's > _Textbook of Classical Literary Tibetan_, portions of which seem to be > available online at Harvard: > > http://isites.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k41868&pageid=icb.page196202 > > and Joe Wilson's _Translating Buddhism From Tibetan_ (Ithaca: Snow Lion). > Although Hahn's book gives an excellent concise overview of the components > of Tibetan grammar, it is weak on the practicalities of dissecting the more > idiosyncratic Tibetan sentence formations, particularly those seen in the > philosophical literature. For this reason, although Hahn's is a useful > resource to have, I am more partial to Joe Wilson's textbook since it > offers a systematic presentation of Tibetan grammar specifically geared > both to classical Tibetan literature and pedagogically for students > interested in practical advice for translating. Other presentations either > attempt to include theoretical linguistic models which tend to be not very > useful, or worse yet, conflate literary Tibetan with colloquial Tibetan, > which simply confuses the issue (they are sufficiently distinct) leading to > a watered-down, lowest-common-denominator presentation that loses may key > attributes of dealing exclusively with literary classical Tibetan. Be > aware that Wilson's book is geared specifically towards translating Tibetan > into English. If you goal is translating into Portuguese, his approach > will undoubtedly require some reformulation. > > As for dictionaries, it is much more difficult. Believe it or not, one > of the best dictionaries for classical Tibetan is still Sarat Chadra Das, > _Tibetan-English Dictionary_ (1902), available from several publishers in > India. The only weakness is its coverage of tantra and the more abstruse > philosophical vocabulary. Jeffrey Hopkins's dictionary was an attempt to > rectify this lacuna regarding tantra and philosophy, but it is not yet > published and currently only an old only version is available online from > the University of Virginia as part of the "Tibetan Dictionary Tool" (though > be advise that the bulk of the data there is more quantity than quality and > needs to be used with some caution). I published a dictionary of Tibetan > verbs a few years ago (_A Tibetan Verb Lexicon_ Ithaca: Snow Lion, 2003) as > both a ready reference and prolegomenon to my "Classical Tibetan Reader" > designed to be used in conjunction with Joe Wilson textbook, and which > students tell me they find quite useful, though it has its own limitations > as well (a second edition will require several more years of work). > Otherwise, there is the Tibetan-Tibetan-Chinese Dictionary from almost > twenty years ago, but it is not for novice students, requiring a certain > degree of facility in Tibetan to be useful and even then it is very weak in > terms of philosophical vocabulary and is geared much more towards generic > literature. > > Hope that helps. > > Best, > > Paul Hackett > Columbia University > -- James Hartzell Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) University of Trento via delle Regole 101 38123 Mattarello, TN, Italy Tel: +39 0461 28 3660 Cell: +39 377 452 6292 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Nov 11 13:55:17 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 11 14:55:17 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Fwd:_New_Books_in_Religion-David_Gordon_White,______________=E2=80=9CSi_nister_Yogis=E2=80=9D?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094412.23782.8882184394378700684.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 892 Lines: 27 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Kristian Petersen Date: 2 November 2011 18:36 Subject: New Books in Religion-David Gordon White, ?Sinister Yogis? [...] I just did an interview with David Gordon White about his book Sinister Yogis. He suggested I contact you as your blog readers may be interested in hearing it. You may listen the latest post at http://newbooksnetwork.com/religion/2011/11/01/david-gordon-white-%e2%80%9csinister-yogis%e2%80%9d-university-of-chicago-press-2009/ Many thanks! Kristian Kristian Petersen Visiting Instructor - Department of Religion Gustavus Adolphus College twitter.com/BabaKristian newbooksinreligion.com homepages.gac.edu/~kpeter15 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andreaacri at MAC.COM Sat Nov 12 17:00:19 2011 From: andreaacri at MAC.COM (Andrea Acri) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 11 18:00:19 +0100 Subject: Publication Announcement (Open Access) Message-ID: <161227094415.23782.11948887480818330719.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1814 Lines: 74 Dear list members, I am pleased to announce the publication of the volume >From La?k? Eastwards; The R?m?ya?a in the Literature and Visual Arts of Indonesia edited by myself, Helen Creese and Arlo Griffiths. The volume, published by KITLV Press, is available in both traditional and digital form. The digital book can be downloaded as a .pdf file via Open Access: http://www.kitlv.nl/book/show/1314 and also http://www.oapen.org/search?identifier=399317 I append the table of contents below. Kind regards, Andrea Acri * * * CONTENTS About the authors --- p. vii Introduction --- p. xi Part One: Old Javanese Kakawin and the Kakawin R?m?ya?a 1. Hymns of Praise in Kakawins; The R?m?ya?a and Other Examples --- p. 1 Stuart Robson 2. Poetic Conventions as Opposed to Conventional Poetry? A Place for kavisamaya-?di in Comparative K?vya/Kakawin Studies --- p. 11 Wesley Michel 3. Figures of Repetition (yamaka) in the Bha??ik?vya, the Raghuva??a, the ?iwag?ha Inscription and the Kakawin R?m?ya?a --- p. 25 Thomas Hunter 4. More on Birds, Ascetics and Kings in Central Java; Kakavin R?m?ya?a, 24.111?115 and 25.19?22 --- p. 53 Andrea Acri 5. R?m?ya?a Traditions in Bali --- p. 93 Helen Creese 6. The Old Javanese Kapiparwa and a Recent Balinese Painting --- p. 119 Adrian Vickers Part Two: The R?m?ya?a at Ca??i Prambanan and Ca??i Panataran 7. Imagine La?kapura at Prambanan --- p. 133 Arlo Griffiths 8. The Grand Finale; The Uttarak???a of the Loro Jonggrang Temple Complex --- p. 149 Cecelia Levin 9. The Causeway Episode of the Prambanan R?m?ya?a Reexamined --- p. 179 Roy Jordaan 10. Hanuman, the Flying Monkey; The Symbolism of the R?m?ya?a Reliefs at the Main Temple of Ca??i Panataran --- p. 209 Lydia Kieven Abbreviations --- p. 223 Bibliography --- p. 235 Index --- p. 253 From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sat Nov 12 19:49:22 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 11 20:49:22 +0100 Subject: Cambridge MSS project underway Message-ID: <161227094418.23782.9120974621747029341.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 402 Lines: 13 > > *Ancient manuscripts that hold important clues to India?s intellectual > and religious traditions will be the focus of a new study.* full story: http://www.lib.cam.ac.uk/specialcollections/blog/?tag=sanskrit-manuscripts -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From astol007 at GATTAMELATA.COM Sun Nov 13 10:41:33 2011 From: astol007 at GATTAMELATA.COM (Alexander Stolyarov) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 11 13:41:33 +0300 Subject: CFP: ICOSAL 10 Message-ID: <161227094421.23782.90032852986550323.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4142 Lines: 98 Conference Information Full Title: International Conference on South Asian Languages and Literatures 10 Short Title: ICOSAL 10 Location: Institute of Asian and African Studies, Moscow State University, and Russian State University for the Humanities (Moscow) Date: 5-6 July 2012 Deadlines: 15 December 2011: submission of proposals 1 February 2012: submission of abstracts 1 March 2012: notification of acceptance Meeting Description: The Department of Indian Philology, Institute of Asian and African Studies (IAAS), Moscow State University, and the International Centre for South Asian Studies, Russian State University for the Humanities, are proud to host the 10th International Conference on South Asian Languages and Literatures (ICOSAL 10). Out of the nine previous ICOSALs, three were organized in Moscow by the Department of Indian Philology, IAAS, (July 1997, July 2003, June 2006). The other six ICOSALs were organized by various Indian Universities (in Hyderabad, Aligarh, Patiala and other Indian cities). The main problems discussed at the ICOSALs were: the structure of Hindi and other Indian languages as a subject of University education outside India; resource materials for learning Hindi and other Indian languages; new challenges to the teaching of Indian languages and literatures; software and other technical devices for teaching and learning Indian languages; new trends in Hindi orthography caused by using computers; estimation of manuals and textbooks used for teaching Indian languages; problems of translation; influence of European and American literature on writers of Indian Diaspora; the role of web resources in developing and spreading modern Indian literatures. There were also special sessions dedicated to creative activity like reciting poetry or performing a play (plays) in Indian languages by students of Moscow State University. Proceedings of the 1st ICOSAL, under the title ?Vaagbhaarati?, were published by Moscow State University in 1998, edited by L.V. Khokhlova and A. Sawani Proceedings of the 5th ICOSAL, ?Old and New Perspectives on South Asian Languages: Grammar and Semantics', were published in 2007 by Motilal Banarsidass, ed. by Colin Masica. Proceedings of the 8th ICOSAL, ?Language Vitality in South Asia?, were published in 2009 by Aligarh Muslim University, ed. by Ali R. Fatihi Linguistic Subfields in ICOSAL 10: Morphology, semantics and syntax of South Asian languages; languages versus dialects; problems of demarcation of related languages (e.g. Hindi versus Urdu); divergent developments of languages in different countries (e.g. Urdu in India and Pakistan, Bangla in India and Bangladesh; (cultural) history of South Asian languages. Literature Subfields in ICOSAL 10: History of various literatures of South Asia; patterns of the appearance of new literary languages and new literatures; hermeneutics of literary analysis; literature(s) and religion(s); problems of literary genres in the literatures of South Asia. Organizing committee Head: Professor M.S. Meyer, Director, Institute of Asian and African Studies, MSU Members: Linguistics: Dr. L. Khokhlova (lvik at orc.ru), Dr. E. Panina (panina_e at mail.ru), Prof. B. Zakharyin Literature: Prof. Neelam Saxena (nsneelam79 at yahoo.com), Dr. E. Akimushkina (eakimushkina at mail.ru), Dr. A. Dubyanskiy (dubian at iaas.msu.ru), A. Janvijay (aniljanvijay at gmail.com), Dr. M. Rusanov (marusanov at yandex.ru), Prof. S. Serebriany (s.serebriany at gmail.com), Dr. A. Stolyarov (astol007 at gattamelata.com), Dr. G. Strelkova (gstr at mail.ru) Secretary: E. Bugayenko (katjagrjunvald at rambler.ru) Proposals and abstracts should be sent to the secretary of the organizing committee E. Bugayenko (katjagrjunvald at rambler.ru). The size of an abstract should not exceed 2000 characters. Abstracts should be typed in TimesNewRoman 12. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 495 bytes Desc: not available URL: From astol007 at GATTAMELATA.COM Sun Nov 13 10:42:08 2011 From: astol007 at GATTAMELATA.COM (Alexander Stolyarov) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 11 13:42:08 +0300 Subject: CFP: ICOSAL 10 Message-ID: <161227094425.23782.11011039918507332383.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4142 Lines: 98 Conference Information Full Title: International Conference on South Asian Languages and Literatures 10 Short Title: ICOSAL 10 Location: Institute of Asian and African Studies, Moscow State University, and Russian State University for the Humanities (Moscow) Date: 5-6 July 2012 Deadlines: 15 December 2011: submission of proposals 1 February 2012: submission of abstracts 1 March 2012: notification of acceptance Meeting Description: The Department of Indian Philology, Institute of Asian and African Studies (IAAS), Moscow State University, and the International Centre for South Asian Studies, Russian State University for the Humanities, are proud to host the 10th International Conference on South Asian Languages and Literatures (ICOSAL 10). Out of the nine previous ICOSALs, three were organized in Moscow by the Department of Indian Philology, IAAS, (July 1997, July 2003, June 2006). The other six ICOSALs were organized by various Indian Universities (in Hyderabad, Aligarh, Patiala and other Indian cities). The main problems discussed at the ICOSALs were: the structure of Hindi and other Indian languages as a subject of University education outside India; resource materials for learning Hindi and other Indian languages; new challenges to the teaching of Indian languages and literatures; software and other technical devices for teaching and learning Indian languages; new trends in Hindi orthography caused by using computers; estimation of manuals and textbooks used for teaching Indian languages; problems of translation; influence of European and American literature on writers of Indian Diaspora; the role of web resources in developing and spreading modern Indian literatures. There were also special sessions dedicated to creative activity like reciting poetry or performing a play (plays) in Indian languages by students of Moscow State University. Proceedings of the 1st ICOSAL, under the title ?Vaagbhaarati?, were published by Moscow State University in 1998, edited by L.V. Khokhlova and A. Sawani Proceedings of the 5th ICOSAL, ?Old and New Perspectives on South Asian Languages: Grammar and Semantics', were published in 2007 by Motilal Banarsidass, ed. by Colin Masica. Proceedings of the 8th ICOSAL, ?Language Vitality in South Asia?, were published in 2009 by Aligarh Muslim University, ed. by Ali R. Fatihi Linguistic Subfields in ICOSAL 10: Morphology, semantics and syntax of South Asian languages; languages versus dialects; problems of demarcation of related languages (e.g. Hindi versus Urdu); divergent developments of languages in different countries (e.g. Urdu in India and Pakistan, Bangla in India and Bangladesh; (cultural) history of South Asian languages. Literature Subfields in ICOSAL 10: History of various literatures of South Asia; patterns of the appearance of new literary languages and new literatures; hermeneutics of literary analysis; literature(s) and religion(s); problems of literary genres in the literatures of South Asia. Organizing committee Head: Professor M.S. Meyer, Director, Institute of Asian and African Studies, MSU Members: Linguistics: Dr. L. Khokhlova (lvik at orc.ru), Dr. E. Panina (panina_e at mail.ru), Prof. B. Zakharyin Literature: Prof. Neelam Saxena (nsneelam79 at yahoo.com), Dr. E. Akimushkina (eakimushkina at mail.ru), Dr. A. Dubyanskiy (dubian at iaas.msu.ru), A. Janvijay (aniljanvijay at gmail.com), Dr. M. Rusanov (marusanov at yandex.ru), Prof. S. Serebriany (s.serebriany at gmail.com), Dr. A. Stolyarov (astol007 at gattamelata.com), Dr. G. Strelkova (gstr at mail.ru) Secretary: E. Bugayenko (katjagrjunvald at rambler.ru) Proposals and abstracts should be sent to the secretary of the organizing committee E. Bugayenko (katjagrjunvald at rambler.ru). The size of an abstract should not exceed 2000 characters. Abstracts should be typed in TimesNewRoman 12. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 495 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Tue Nov 15 23:09:46 2011 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 11 17:09:46 -0600 Subject: Query Message-ID: <161227094431.23782.5113692847103083240.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 454 Lines: 14 Dear All: I received a query from a colleague not on Indology. He wants to trace the source of the following verse that occurs in the Yuktid?pik?: y?m eva pratham?? r?trim garbhe bhavati p?ru?a? / samprasthitas t?m bhavati sa gacchan na nivartate // Thanks. Patrick Olivelle -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Tue Nov 15 16:27:30 2011 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 11 17:27:30 +0100 Subject: GRETIL update #397 Message-ID: <161227094428.23782.7770760171512198286.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 673 Lines: 33 At the tenth anniversary of its launch, GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Jaimini: Mimamsasutra (revised) Upasampadajnapti __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm From aprigliano at USP.BR Wed Nov 16 09:01:08 2011 From: aprigliano at USP.BR (Adriano Aprigliano) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 11 07:01:08 -0200 Subject: Stephe Hodge contact Message-ID: <161227094437.23782.14097526983366727.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 360 Lines: 14 This should be only to S. Hodge, I apologize: My replies to your message have all been returned, so I ask you if you could give me another email address. Best whishes A.Aprigliano -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vjroebuck at BTINTERNET.COM Wed Nov 16 08:09:55 2011 From: vjroebuck at BTINTERNET.COM (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 11 08:09:55 +0000 Subject: Query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094434.23782.11706373712345153930.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 684 Lines: 25 Sanskrit Ud?navarga1.6 has: y?m eva pratham?? r?tri? garbhe vasati m?nava?/ avi??hita? sa vrajati gata? ca na nivartate // Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK On 15 Nov 2011, at 23:09, Patrick Olivelle wrote: > Dear All: > I received a query from a colleague not on Indology. He wants to trace the source of the following verse that occurs in the Yuktid?pik?: > > y?m eva pratham?? r?trim garbhe bhavati p?ru?a? / samprasthitas t?m bhavati sa gacchan na nivartate // > > > Thanks. > > Patrick Olivelle -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Fri Nov 18 16:57:25 2011 From: rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Richard Salomon) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 11 08:57:25 -0800 Subject: Fellowship announcement: Gandhari text studies Message-ID: <161227094451.23782.15887799448314047336.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3293 Lines: 61 Dear Colleagues, Please bring the attached announcement of the new Dhammachai Scholarship for Gandhari Studies at the University of Washington to the attention of your students or other interested parties. Please also note that to be eligible for the scholarship next year, students must apply to the graduate program in Buddhist Studies in the Department of Asian Languages and Literature, University of Washington, by December 15, 2011. Thanks, Richard Salomon 70th Dhammachai Scholarship for Gandhari Studies at the University of Washington Description of the Fellowship The Department of Asian Languages and Literature, University of Washington (Seattle WA) announces the inception of the 70th Dhammachai Scholarship, sponsored by the Dhammachai International Research Institute. This scholarship will be offered to a qualified applicant to the graduate program in Buddhist Studies in the Department of Asian Languages and Literature whose studies will focus on research on Buddhist texts in Gandhari under the auspices of the department's Early Buddhist Manuscripts Project. The scholarship will offer up to five years of full support, conditional on satisfactory annual progress. The Early Buddhist Manuscripts Project The Early Buddhist Manuscripts Project was founded in 1996 to promote the study and publication of newly discovered Buddhist manuscripts in the Gandhari language, dating from the first century b.c.e. to the third century c.e. The manuscripts contain a wide variety of Buddhist texts and genres including sutra, abhidharma, avadana, commentaries and scholastic treatises. For further information, please see the project's website at http://ebmp.org/. Prerequisites for the Scholarship The holder of the 70th Dhammachai Scholarship will be expected to pursue research on one or more of the unpublished Gandhari manuscripts, with a view to preparing a scholarly edition and translation. The holder will need to have a suitable background in Buddhist Studies and one or more of the relevant languages, including Sanskrit, Pali, and Chinese. Previous knowledge of the Gandhari language is not required, but will be a focus of the awardee's studies in the first few years in the program. Application procedure Applicants for the scholarship will submit a standard application to the Graduate School of the University of Washington (due December 15, 2011), designating the graduate program in Buddhist Studies in the Department of Asian Languages and Literature (http://depts.washington.edu/asianll/home/prospective_grad.html#app). In addition, they must separately submit an application for the 70th Dhammachai Scholarship, due on January 15, 2012. Application forms will be found at: http://depts.washington.edu/asianll/downloads/Application%20form%20EBMP.docx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Dhammachaifellowshipannouncement.doc Type: application/msword Size: 32256 bytes Desc: not available URL: From saf at SAFARMER.COM Fri Nov 18 18:47:45 2011 From: saf at SAFARMER.COM (Steve Farmer) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 11 10:47:45 -0800 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indus signs on birch bark folio in Sultani Museum, Kabul: continuous or reinvented use? In-Reply-To: <1A6D14A87B9BB84D9BFBF8AE65CA1DE41438E9B7@its-embx-02.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227094457.23782.13919173366781493715.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 7092 Lines: 62 Dear Madhav, It is an obvious and rather amateurish fake. We've discussed the reasons for this at length on the Indo-Eurasian Research List (IER) earlier this week, as explained to Jan Houben earlier today. You can find the relevant posts -- a long list of them now, starting with message 15562 here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Indo-Eurasian_research/messages The girl who wrote the thesis (Lucy Zuberbuehler) herself has posted on the List, sending a note to me and Richard Sproat, saying that she knows it is a forgery and apologizing for all the trouble this has stirred up. We even know where the fake comes from. See all the messages, including the note from Asko Parpola (posted via Naga Ganesan) the other day. Radiocarbon dating from around 2003 of longer fake manuscripts apparently written in the same hand show that the bark is modern. Richard Sproat and I have also pointed to obvious internal evidence (anomalies in sign repetition rates and sign sequencing) showing that it is a fake: you don't need radiocarbon evidence, but it exists. I'm astonished that anyone could take it for being legitimate. The signs are based on modern redrawings or linearized/computerized "fonts" of the sort we find in modern studies from the time of Hunter 1929 to Mahadevan 1977 to Parpola 1994 to Wells, etc., and not on study of legitimate Indus artifacts. For full arguments from a long list of people, see IER above. There is no need to repeat those arguments here.] Please note that claims that this is a real "Indus manuscript" are hitting the Web now only because of the efforts of the Hindutva propagandist (and serial pseudo-decipherer) S. Kalyanaraman. Even the author of the thesis doesn't think the manuscript is legitimate. BTW, when Richard Sproat, Michael Witzel, and I published "Collapse of the Indus Script Thesis" in 2004, we predicted that there would be new Indus forgeries used in part to "refute" our argument. We made that prediction again at a Stanford University conference on our work in 2007. That prediction too has proven to be correct. Regards, Steve On Nov 18, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: > From: Deshpande, Madhav > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 1:10 PM > To: Jan E.M. Houben > Subject: RE: [INDOLOGY] Indus signs on birch bark folio in Sultani Museum, Kabul: continuous or reinvented use? > > This appears to be an interesting find, though it is not completely clear what one can infer from it. Just looking at the photographs provided in Zuberbuehler's paper, it appears to me that the chance of such material surviving from the Indus Valley period is remote, but the "manuscript" is most likely older than the modern archaeological discovery of the Indus Civilization, and perhaps similar in date to the box itself, namely 16th century A.D. If that be the case, it is still astounding that the knowledge of the Indus characters in some form had continued in some remote corners till the 16th century. Even if it be later than the 16th century, but older than the modern discovery of Indus, we still have the same amazement. Unless it turns out, by modern dating methods, to be later than the modern discovery of Indus Seals, one still needs to explain who had preserved/discovered these signs before the modern archaeologists, and what was he attempting to encode. As we are more or less familiar with the languages used in this area in the 16th century, it may be worth investigating whether someone could attempt to write a language like Pashto or Dari, using an inventory of Indus signs as replacements for the elements of a more contemporary Perso-Arabic script. In any case, this looks like an important find, and if more of such finds become available from that area, our understanding of the history of these signs may move further. The whole thing becomes worthless if, by modern methods of dating, the "manuscript" turns out to be far more modern, and thus representing a post-Indus-discovery attempt by someone to create an Indus manuscript to further some disputed modern arguments. (How would it end up in the Kabul museum?) Only time will tell the true nature of this "manuscript". > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA > ________________________________________ > From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of Jan E.M. Houben [jemhouben at GMAIL.COM] > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 11:53 AM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indus signs on birch bark folio in Sultani Museum, Kabul: continuous or reinvented use? > > A few questions regarding a recent thesis by Lucy Zuberbuehler (Univ. of Bern, Fac. of Lettres, Bachelor thesis prepared under the guidance of Prof. Dr. Roland Bielmeier) are too important not to be asked. > The author brilliantly compares the signs on a birch bark manuscript from a recently established private museum, the Sultani Museum, in Kabul (on the basis of photographs available on the Western Himalaya Archive, Vienna), with the Indus signs as available on Indus seals etc. of ca. 2500 BCE. > > http://www.docstoc.com/docs/103016650/A-comparison-of-a-manuscript-with-indus-script---Lucy-Zuber-Buehler-(2009) > > In view of the observed properties of birch bark, it would seem reasonable to exclude the possibility that we have here a piece of writing from the time of the Indus civilization (C-dates are not available). > The folio is conserved in a box with perhaps 16th century C.E. paintings of horse riding and maybe polo playing men. > A close analysis of the writing leads Lucy Zuberbuehler to formulate (i.a.) the following important observation: > "The inability to locate any obvious ink failure could mean that the Kabul manuscript was written with a reservoir pen. This type of pen purportedly existed as early as the 10th century in the Islamic world" (p. 15). > Suppose the folio is 1/2 a millennium or even, somehow, 2 millennia old (as the oldest currently available birch bark mss fragments): the gap with the Indus civilization period is in either case still enormous. > If the signs on this folio do have a syllabic or alphabetic value and if they do represent a "living" script, their correspondence with the much older Indus signs is simply TOO exact, since in other living scripts, at least alphabetic and syllabic-alphabetic ones, significant cummulative modifications are observed every two centuries or so (unless printing intervenes). > Did someone copy the signs (perhaps several centuries ago) from some other object without knowing what the signs represented? Did the signs fail to evolve significantly as they had a non-alphabetic and non-syllabic function also for the one who wrote the signs on the folio? Finally, can any functional continuity be accepted between the use of signs in the Indus civilization and the use of similar signs on the Kabul manuscript, around two or rather three millennia later? > Jan Houben From j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM Fri Nov 18 19:52:37 2011 From: j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 11 11:52:37 -0800 Subject: Indus signs on birch bark folio in Sultani Museum, Kabul: continuous or reinvented use? In-Reply-To: <3F75500C-900C-4EAF-A9EE-FFC26F7740F7@safarmer.com> Message-ID: <161227094460.23782.8286542519927934317.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6570 Lines: 78 Dear Steve,? As we all know from Sherlock Holmes: no crime without motive.? To the extent "forgeries" come under (artistic) crimes, I deduce that similar things apply here too.? (The situation in ancient India tends to confirm this: see Richard Salomon's article "The Fine Art of Forgery" in G. Colas and G. Gerschheimer Ecrire et Transmettre, Paris: EFEO, an online accessible summary-reference in Sheldon Pollock's review of the book in JA 2011,? http://www.columbia.edu/cu/mesaas/faculty/directory/pollock_pub/_Indian%20Philology%20and%20India's%20Philology_.pdf). To me the motive, either financial or "pious", for a forgery carelessly placed in an almost unknown museum in Kabul (Afghanistan), is far from obvious (note the apparent dissociation of the supposed "artefact" and the "artefact-creator", the absence of any claim by the museum owner regarding the nature of the script, and, consequently, the absence of immediately obvious financial profit and even more of ideological profit to the museum owner or to the "artefact-creator") .? In defence of the student it should further be said that for her BA thesis?she worked?exclusively on the basis of photographs online available at the Western Himalaya Archive, Vienna. On p. 13 ff the student describes properties of the writing material which do not support anything close to the thesis of a "millennia-old" artefact, but which on the other hand do suggest oldness of the material (peeling off etc.). ? So could you briefly summarize your findings on this aspect of the object for me and other readers of this list? (I am still not getting access to the messages to which you refer so please also instruct how to sign up to your Eurasian list). Best,? Jan ________________________________ From: Steve Farmer To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Indus signs on birch bark folio in Sultani Museum, Kabul: continuous or reinvented use? Dear Madhav, It is an obvious and rather amateurish fake. We've discussed the reasons for this at length on the Indo-Eurasian Research List (IER) earlier this week, as explained to Jan Houben earlier today. You can find the relevant posts -- a long list of them now, starting with message 15562 here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Indo-Eurasian_research/messages The girl who wrote the thesis (Lucy Zuberbuehler) herself has posted on the List, sending a note to me and Richard Sproat, saying that she knows it is a forgery and apologizing for all the trouble this has stirred up. We even know where the fake comes from. See all the messages, including the note from Asko Parpola (posted via Naga Ganesan) the other day. Radiocarbon dating from around 2003 of longer fake manuscripts apparently written in the same hand show that the bark is modern. Richard Sproat and I have also pointed to obvious internal evidence (anomalies in sign repetition rates and sign sequencing)? showing that it is a fake: you don't need radiocarbon evidence, but it exists. I'm astonished that anyone could take it for being legitimate. The signs are based on modern redrawings or linearized/computerized "fonts" of the sort we find in modern studies from the time of Hunter 1929 to Mahadevan 1977 to Parpola 1994 to Wells, etc., and not on study of legitimate Indus artifacts. For full arguments from a long list of people, see IER above. There is no need to repeat those arguments here.] Please note that claims that this is a real "Indus manuscript" are hitting the Web now only because of the efforts of the Hindutva propagandist (and serial pseudo-decipherer) S. Kalyanaraman. Even the author of the thesis doesn't think the manuscript is legitimate. BTW, when Richard Sproat, Michael Witzel, and I published "Collapse of the Indus Script Thesis" in 2004, we predicted that there would be new Indus forgeries used in part to "refute" our argument. We made that prediction again at a Stanford University conference on our work in 2007. That prediction too has proven to be correct. Regards, Steve On Nov 18, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: > From: Deshpande, Madhav > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 1:10 PM > To: Jan E.M. Houben > Subject: RE: [INDOLOGY] Indus signs on birch bark folio in Sultani Museum, Kabul: continuous or reinvented use? > > This appears to be an interesting find, though it is not completely clear what one can infer from it.? Just looking at the photographs provided in Zuberbuehler's paper, it appears to me that the chance of such material surviving from the Indus Valley period is remote, but the "manuscript" is most likely older than the modern archaeological discovery of the Indus Civilization, and perhaps similar in date to the box itself, namely 16th century A.D.? If that be the case, it is still astounding that the knowledge of the Indus characters in some form had continued in some remote corners till the 16th century.? Even if it be later than the 16th century, but older than the modern discovery of Indus, we still have the same amazement.? Unless it turns out, by modern dating methods, to be later than the modern discovery of Indus Seals, one still needs to explain who had preserved/discovered these signs before the modern archaeologists, and what was he attempting to encode.? As we are more or less familiar with the languages used in this area in the 16th century, it may be worth investigating whether someone could attempt to write a language like Pashto or Dari, using an inventory of Indus signs as replacements for the elements of a more contemporary Perso-Arabic script.? In any case, this looks like an important find, and if more of such finds become available from that area, our understanding of the history of these signs may move further.? The whole thing becomes worthless if, by modern methods of dating, the "manuscript" turns out to be far more modern, and thus representing a post-Indus-discovery attempt by someone to create an Indus manuscript to further some disputed modern arguments.? (How would it end up in the Kabul museum?)? Only time will tell the true nature of this "manuscript". > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA > _______ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jemhouben at GMAIL.COM Fri Nov 18 11:03:20 2011 From: jemhouben at GMAIL.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 11 12:03:20 +0100 Subject: Published and available online: Proceedings of Panel "Veda-Ved=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81=E1=B9=85ga?= and Avesta between Orality and Writing" Message-ID: <161227094440.23782.4952510061516987542.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4963 Lines: 126 Le Veda-Ved??ga et l'Avesta entre oralit? et ?criture Veda-Ved??ga and Avesta between Orality and Writing (panel organized and proceedings edited by J.E.M. Houben and J. Rotaru) has appeared in Vol. III as Section III A of Travaux de SYMPOSIUM INTERNATIONAL Le Livre. La Roumanie. L?Europe. troisi?me ?dition ? 20 ? 24 Septembre 2010, Bucarest - (general ed. F. Rotaru) Tome III : section IIIA ? ?tudes euro- et afro-asiatiques. Bucarest: ?diteur Biblioth?que de Bucarest, 2011. Please refer to the address below to download the on line version (which also contains Section IIIB: Reconfiguring the Divine and Divinity, ed. by R. Pop): http://www.bibliotecametropolitana.ro/Uploads/Simpozionul%20International_Cartea_Romania_Europa_III_V3_mic.pdf See below for the tables of content of Section IIIA and of Section IIIB. La troisi?me section ? ?TUDES EURO- ET AFRO-ASIATIQUES The third section ? EUROASIATIC AND AFROASIATIC STUDIES TABLE OF CONTENTS OF Section III A Le Veda-Ved??ga et l'Avesta entre oralit? et ?criture Veda-Ved??ga and Avesta between Orality and Writing INTRODUCTION: Veda-Ved??ga and Avesta between orality and writing ? JAN E.M. HOUBEN .......................................................................... 13 Orality, Textuality and Inter-textuality. Some Observations on the ?aunaka Tradition of the Atharvaveda ? SHRIKANT S. BAHULKAR ...... 20 Some Aspects of Oral Tradition as Reflected in the P??inian Grammatical Texts ? SHREENAND L. BAPAT .............................................. 35 Illiteracy as a socio-cultural marker ? JOHANNES BRONKHORST .............. 44 >?From Orality to Writing: Transmission and Interpretation of P??ini?s A???dhy?y? ? MADHAV M. DESHPANDE .................................................... 57 Vy?kara?a between Ved??ga and Dar?ana ? FLORINA DOBRE-BRAT .......................... 101 ?Let ?iva?s favour be alike with scribes and with reciters:? Motifs for copying or not copying the Veda ? CEZARY GALEWICZ ........................... 113 Vedic ritual as medium in ancient and pre-colonial South Asia: its expansion and survival between orality and writing ? JAN E.M. HOUBEN ....................................................................................... 147 Earliest transmissions of Avestan texts ? RAMIYAR PARVEZ KARANJIA ................................................................. 184 Srao?a : de la terminologie indo-iranienne ? l?ex?g?se avestique ? JEAN KELLENS ............................................................................................. 193 The Text, Commentary and Critical Editions: A Case of the Commentary of S?ya?a on the Atharvaveda ? AMBARISH VASANT KHARE .................................................................... 200 Orality and authenticity ? MADHAVI KOLHATKAR .................................. 212 Manuscript Transmission and Discrepancies in Interpretation ? NIRMALA KULKARNI ................................................................................. 220 Sacred sound becomes sacred scripture: the Veda Mandir in Na?ik, Mah?r???ra ? BORAYIN LARIOS .................................................................. 233 On the descriptive techniques of Pr?ti??khya and A???dhy?y? ? ANAND MISHRA .......................................................................................... 245 Codification of Vedic domestic ritual in Kerala ? ASKO PARPOLA ............ 261 Techniques pour la bri?vet? dans le S?mavidh?nabr?hma?a ? ANNE-MARIE QUILLET .............................................................................. 355 Vedic Education in early mediaeval India according to North Indian Charters ? SARAJU RATH ............................................................................. 393 Pastoral nomadism, tribalism, and language shift ? SHEREEN RATNAGAR ................................................................................ 425 Habent sua fata libelli: The D?rilabh??ya and its manuscripts ? JULIETA ROTARU ........................................................................................ 454 Diplomatica Indica DataBase (DIDB): Introduction ? ALEXANDER STOLYAROV ........................................................................ 468 Sa?hit? Mantras in the Written and Oral Traditions of the Paippal?dins ? SHILPA SUMANT ................................................................. 474 Gandh?ra and the formation of the Vedic and Zoroastrian canons ? MICHAEL WITZEL ....................................................................................... 490 -- Prof. Dr. Jan E.M. Houben, Directeur d Etudes ? Sources et Histoire de la Tradition Sanskrite ? Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, SHP, A la Sorbonne,45-47, rue des Ecoles, 75005 Paris -- France. JEMHouben at gmail.com www.jyotistoma.nl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From saf at SAFARMER.COM Fri Nov 18 20:18:45 2011 From: saf at SAFARMER.COM (Steve Farmer) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 11 12:18:45 -0800 Subject: Indus signs on birch bark folio in Sultani Museum, Kabul: continuous or reinvented use? In-Reply-To: <1321645957.87319.YahooMailNeo@web43137.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227094464.23782.2841644974213850720.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 8907 Lines: 110 Dear Jan, I already responded to you about this off-List, and also about other issues you've asked about (especially the Gandharan thesis that Michael W. and I developed, re. new ways of dating Vedic manuscripts). But to rehearse all the arguments about the fake bark manuscript (made in the 21st century!) is superfluous, since many of us now have discussed the obvious evidence that it is a fake on the Indo-Eurasian Research List, starting with message #15562. Our archives are open to everyone, not closed. Just go here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Indo-Eurasian_research/ Then click on "messages." You'll also find info there on joining the List, if you want. We aren't an Indology list per se -- we deal with cross-cultural issues in antiquity -- but many Indologists are among our core members. To go right to the messages, go here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Indo-Eurasian_research/messages Note that there are messages quoted in there on the faked manuscript from the writer of the BA thesis (who wrote me yesterday saying she knew it was a forgery) and others iI've mentioned. What is the motive in making such a forgery? Well, what would a *real* Indus manuscript -- quite impossible -- be worth? As Asko Parpola notes in a message quoted on our List (by Naga Ganesan), when manuscripts that Askop says are written in the same hand as this fake went on the market in London (around 2003) the price was millions of pounds. If the thing were legitimate and not a clumsy fake, it would be solid evidence of "writing" in the Indus Valley, and as the earliest Indian "writing" would be bought for millions and displayed with nationalistic pride in New Delhi. Do look at the arguments presented by many people (me, Michael, Richard Sproat, others) in the IER List. On earlier, possibly related, forgeries on bark of "Indus manuscripts," see this newsletter from 2003, posted on our List by Ron Davidson of Fairfield University: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Indo-Eurasian_research/message/15568 I second Ron's comments about how distressing it is that any serious researcher could get "suckered" into thinking this obvious fake is real. Best, Steve On Nov 18, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Jan E.M. Houben wrote: > Dear Steve, > > As we all know from Sherlock Holmes: no crime without motive. > > To the extent "forgeries" come under (artistic) crimes, I deduce that similar things apply here too. > > (The situation in ancient India tends to confirm this: see Richard Salomon's article "The Fine Art of Forgery" in G. Colas and G. Gerschheimer Ecrire et Transmettre, Paris: EFEO, an online accessible summary-reference in Sheldon Pollock's review of the book in JA 2011, > http://www.columbia.edu/cu/mesaas/faculty/directory/pollock_pub/_Indian%20Philology%20and%20India's%20Philology_.pdf). > > To me the motive, either financial or "pious", for a forgery carelessly placed in an almost unknown museum in Kabul (Afghanistan), is far from obvious (note the apparent dissociation of the supposed "artefact" and the "artefact-creator", the absence of any claim by the museum owner regarding the nature of the script, and, consequently, the absence of immediately obvious financial profit and even more of ideological profit to the museum owner or to the "artefact-creator") . > > In defence of the student it should further be said that for her BA thesis she worked exclusively on the basis of photographs online available at the Western Himalaya Archive, Vienna. On p. 13 ff the student describes properties of the writing material which do not support anything close to the thesis of a "millennia-old" artefact, but which on the other hand do suggest oldness of the material (peeling off etc.). > > So could you briefly summarize your findings on this aspect of the object for me and other readers of this list? > > (I am still not getting access to the messages to which you refer so please also instruct how to sign up to your Eurasian list). > > Best, > > Jan > > > > > From: Steve Farmer > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 7:47 PM > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Indus signs on birch bark folio in Sultani Museum, Kabul: continuous or reinvented use? > > Dear Madhav, > > It is an obvious and rather amateurish fake. We've discussed the reasons for this at length on the Indo-Eurasian Research List (IER) earlier this week, as explained to Jan Houben earlier today. You can find the relevant posts -- a long list of them now, starting with message 15562 here: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Indo-Eurasian_research/messages > > The girl who wrote the thesis (Lucy Zuberbuehler) herself has posted on the List, sending a note to me and Richard Sproat, saying that she knows it is a forgery and apologizing for all the trouble this has stirred up. > > We even know where the fake comes from. See all the messages, including the note from Asko Parpola (posted via Naga Ganesan) the other day. Radiocarbon dating from around 2003 of longer fake manuscripts apparently written in the same hand show that the bark is modern. > > Richard Sproat and I have also pointed to obvious internal evidence (anomalies in sign repetition rates and sign sequencing) showing that it is a fake: you don't need radiocarbon evidence, but it exists. > > I'm astonished that anyone could take it for being legitimate. The signs are based on modern redrawings or linearized/computerized "fonts" of the sort we find in modern studies from the time of Hunter 1929 to Mahadevan 1977 to Parpola 1994 to Wells, etc., and not on study of legitimate Indus artifacts. > > For full arguments from a long list of people, see IER above. There is no need to repeat those arguments here.] > > Please note that claims that this is a real "Indus manuscript" are hitting the Web now only because of the efforts of the Hindutva propagandist (and serial pseudo-decipherer) S. Kalyanaraman. Even the author of the thesis doesn't think the manuscript is legitimate. > > BTW, when Richard Sproat, Michael Witzel, and I published "Collapse of the Indus Script Thesis" in 2004, we predicted that there would be new Indus forgeries used in part to "refute" our argument. We made that prediction again at a Stanford University conference on our work in 2007. That prediction too has proven to be correct. > > Regards, > Steve > > > > On Nov 18, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Deshpande, Madhav wrote: > > > From: Deshpande, Madhav > > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 1:10 PM > > To: Jan E.M. Houben > > Subject: RE: [INDOLOGY] Indus signs on birch bark folio in Sultani Museum, Kabul: continuous or reinvented use? > > > > This appears to be an interesting find, though it is not completely clear what one can infer from it. Just looking at the photographs provided in Zuberbuehler's paper, it appears to me that the chance of such material surviving from the Indus Valley period is remote, but the "manuscript" is most likely older than the modern archaeological discovery of the Indus Civilization, and perhaps similar in date to the box itself, namely 16th century A.D. If that be the case, it is still astounding that the knowledge of the Indus characters in some form had continued in some remote corners till the 16th century. Even if it be later than the 16th century, but older than the modern discovery of Indus, we still have the same amazement. Unless it turns out, by modern dating methods, to be later than the modern discovery of Indus Seals, one still needs to explain who had preserved/discovered these signs before the modern archaeologists, and what was he attempting to encode. As we are more or less familiar with the languages used in this area in the 16th century, it may be worth investigating whether someone could attempt to write a language like Pashto or Dari, using an inventory of Indus signs as replacements for the elements of a more contemporary Perso-Arabic script. In any case, this looks like an important find, and if more of such finds become available from that area, our understanding of the history of these signs may move further. The whole thing becomes worthless if, by modern methods of dating, the "manuscript" turns out to be far more modern, and thus representing a post-Indus-discovery attempt by someone to create an Indus manuscript to further some disputed modern arguments. (How would it end up in the Kabul museum?) Only time will tell the true nature of this "manuscript". > > > > Madhav M. Deshpande > > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > > The University of Michigan > > Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA > > _______ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jemhouben at GMAIL.COM Fri Nov 18 11:22:33 2011 From: jemhouben at GMAIL.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 11 12:22:33 +0100 Subject: Published and available online: Proceedings of Panel "Reconfiguring the Divine and Divinity" Message-ID: <161227094444.23782.16344767894159191013.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5021 Lines: 131 Reconfiguration du divin et de la divinit? Reconfiguring the Divine and Divinity (panel organized and proceedings edited by R. Pop) has appeared in Vol. III as Section IIIB of Travaux de SYMPOSIUM INTERNATIONAL Le Livre. La Roumanie. L?Europe. troisi?me ?dition ? 20 ? 24 Septembre 2010, Bucarest - (general ed. F. Rotaru) Tome III : section IIIB ? ?tudes euro- et afro-asiatiques. Bucarest: ?diteur Biblioth?que de Bucarest, 2011. Please refer to the address below to download the on line version (which also contains Section IIIA: Veda-Ved??ga and Avesta between Orality and Writing, ed. by J.E.M. Houben and J. Rotaru): http://www.bibliotecametropolitana.ro/Uploads/Simpozionul%20International_Cartea_Romania_Europa_III_V3_mic.pdf La troisi?me section ? ?TUDES EURO- ET AFRO-ASIATIQUESThe third section ? EUROASIATIC AND AFROASIATIC STUDIES TABLE OF CONTENTS OF Section III B Reconfiguration du divin et de la divinit? Reconfiguring the Divine and Divinity INTRODUCTION: Reconfiguring the Divine and Divinity ? Rodica Pop ................................................................................................. 535 The Harmony of Faiths and Beliefs in Albania with the Coexistence of the Divine and Divinity ? Xhemile Abdiu ................................................ 537 Reconfiguration of the Divine in the Sanskrit-Old Javanese ?aiva sources from the Indonesian Archipelago ? Andrea Acri ........................ 545 Facing God: Divine Names and (Celestial) Hierarchies ? Madeea Axinciuc .................................................................................... 566 The Divine and Oriental Textiles ? Christine Bell ................................. 577 Contacts of Russian Diplomats with Ecclesiastical and Secular Rulers of Mongolia as a Factor of Bilateral Relations (second half of the 19th century) ? Elena Boykova ...................................................................... 589 The genealogy of the Chinggisids in Islamic historiography ? MIH?LY DOBROVITS .................................................................................. 593 Chinggis Khaan?s Sacrifice in Mongolia and Abroad ? Sendenjav Dulam ................................................................................... 601 Fr. Andr? Scrima & Rev. P. Augustin Dupr? La Tour s.j.: Note concerning the History of Religions in the Middle East (1970?1980) ? Daniela Dumbrav ? ............................................................................... 611 Ups and Downs of the Divine: Religion and Revolution in 20th century Mongolia ? Marie-Dominique EVEN ..................................................... 627 Reality versus Divinity (On the Creation of the Buddhist Canon) ? Alexander Fedotoff ............................................................................ 645 On the History of Bektashism in Albania ? Albina h. Girfanova ............................................................................. 650 General View of the Divinity and the Divine Concepts in Albanian?s Faiths and Belief Systems ? Spartak Kadiu ............................................ 656 The Holy Scriptus in the Mongolian Language: about A.M. Posdneev?s Activity ? Irina Kulganek ...................................................................... 663 Quelques notes sur les d?couvertes arch?ologiques d??poque Xiongnu sur le site de la n?cropole de Gol Mod (Mongolie) ? Jacques Legrand .................................................................................... 673 Rituals of Mongol Games and Worship of the Spirit Masters of Heaven, Earth and Water ? Ganbaatar Nandinbilig ......................... 682 Drama on Chinggis Khan by B. Lhagvasurung ? Maria p. Petrova .................................................................................... 691 Mongolian Religious Practices and Shamanism reconfigured by the Mongolian Buddhist Church ? Rodica Pop ................................................ 695 Christian Concepts in Mongolian Translation ? Klaus Sagaster ...................................................................................... 704 Chinese-Manchu ?Contrast? in Historiography and Literature ? Giovanni Stary ....................................................................................... 714 Reconstructing Divine and Divinity in Hazret-i Meryem Kitabi ? M?nevver Tekcan .................................................................................. 718 Interpretation of Celestial Phenomena. On a Manchu Manuscript ? Hartmut Walravens ............................................................................ 736 -- Prof. Dr. Jan E.M. Houben, Directeur d Etudes ? Sources et Histoire de la Tradition Sanskrite ? Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, SHP, A la Sorbonne,45-47, rue des Ecoles, 75005 Paris -- France. JEMHouben at gmail.com www.jyotistoma.nl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jemhouben at GMAIL.COM Fri Nov 18 16:53:22 2011 From: jemhouben at GMAIL.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 11 17:53:22 +0100 Subject: Indus signs on birch bark folio in Sultani Museum, Kabul: continuous or reinvented use? Message-ID: <161227094447.23782.14758791491464748112.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2515 Lines: 42 A few questions regarding a recent thesis by Lucy Zuberbuehler (Univ. of Bern, Fac. of Lettres, Bachelor thesis prepared under the guidance of Prof. Dr. Roland Bielmeier) are too important not to be asked. The author brilliantly compares the signs on a birch bark manuscript from a recently established private museum, the Sultani Museum, in Kabul (on the basis of photographs available on the Western Himalaya Archive, Vienna), with the Indus signs as available on Indus seals etc. of ca. 2500 BCE. http://www.docstoc.com/docs/103016650/A-comparison-of-a-manuscript-with-indus-script---Lucy-Zuber-Buehler-(2009) In view of the observed properties of birch bark, it would seem reasonable to exclude the possibility that we have here a piece of writing from the time of the Indus civilization (C-dates are not available). The folio is conserved in a box with perhaps 16th century C.E. paintings of horse riding and maybe polo playing men. A close analysis of the writing leads Lucy Zuberbuehler to formulate (i.a.) the following important observation: "The inability to locate any obvious ink failure could mean that the Kabul manuscript was written with a reservoir pen. This type of pen purportedly existed as early as the 10th century in the Islamic world" (p. 15). Suppose the folio is 1/2 a millennium or even, somehow, 2 millennia old (as the oldest currently available birch bark mss fragments): the gap with the Indus civilization period is in either case still enormous. If the signs on this folio do have a syllabic or alphabetic value and if they do represent a "living" script, their correspondence with the much older Indus signs is simply TOO exact, since in other living scripts, at least alphabetic and syllabic-alphabetic ones, significant cummulative modifications are observed every two centuries or so (unless printing intervenes). Did someone copy the signs (perhaps several centuries ago) from some other object without knowing what the signs represented? Did the signs fail to evolve significantly as they had a non-alphabetic and non-syllabic function also for the one who wrote the signs on the folio? Finally, can any functional continuity be accepted between the use of signs in the Indus civilization and the use of similar signs on the Kabul manuscript, around two or rather three millennia later? Jan Houben -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Fri Nov 18 18:11:46 2011 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 11 18:11:46 +0000 Subject: FW: [INDOLOGY] Indus signs on birch bark folio in Sultani Museum, Kabul: continuous or reinvented use? In-Reply-To: <1A6D14A87B9BB84D9BFBF8AE65CA1DE41438E9A0@its-embx-02.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227094455.23782.952413156193094457.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4876 Lines: 35 From: Deshpande, Madhav Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 1:10 PM To: Jan E.M. Houben Subject: RE: [INDOLOGY] Indus signs on birch bark folio in Sultani Museum, Kabul: continuous or reinvented use? This appears to be an interesting find, though it is not completely clear what one can infer from it. Just looking at the photographs provided in Zuberbuehler's paper, it appears to me that the chance of such material surviving from the Indus Valley period is remote, but the "manuscript" is most likely older than the modern archaeological discovery of the Indus Civilization, and perhaps similar in date to the box itself, namely 16th century A.D. If that be the case, it is still astounding that the knowledge of the Indus characters in some form had continued in some remote corners till the 16th century. Even if it be later than the 16th century, but older than the modern discovery of Indus, we still have the same amazement. Unless it turns out, by modern dating methods, to be later than the modern discovery of Indus Seals, one still needs to explain who had preserved/discovered these signs before the modern archaeologists, and what was he attempting to encode. As we are more or less familiar with the languages used in this area in the 16th century, it may be worth investigating whether someone could attempt to write a language like Pashto or Dari, using an inventory of Indus signs as replacements for the elements of a more contemporary Perso-Arabic script. In any case, this looks like an important find, and if more of such finds become available from that area, our understanding of the history of these signs may move further. The whole thing becomes worthless if, by modern methods of dating, the "manuscript" turns out to be far more modern, and thus representing a post-Indus-discovery attempt by someone to create an Indus manuscript to further some disputed modern arguments. (How would it end up in the Kabul museum?) Only time will tell the true nature of this "manuscript". Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of Jan E.M. Houben [jemhouben at GMAIL.COM] Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 11:53 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indus signs on birch bark folio in Sultani Museum, Kabul: continuous or reinvented use? A few questions regarding a recent thesis by Lucy Zuberbuehler (Univ. of Bern, Fac. of Lettres, Bachelor thesis prepared under the guidance of Prof. Dr. Roland Bielmeier) are too important not to be asked. The author brilliantly compares the signs on a birch bark manuscript from a recently established private museum, the Sultani Museum, in Kabul (on the basis of photographs available on the Western Himalaya Archive, Vienna), with the Indus signs as available on Indus seals etc. of ca. 2500 BCE. http://www.docstoc.com/docs/103016650/A-comparison-of-a-manuscript-with-indus-script---Lucy-Zuber-Buehler-(2009) In view of the observed properties of birch bark, it would seem reasonable to exclude the possibility that we have here a piece of writing from the time of the Indus civilization (C-dates are not available). The folio is conserved in a box with perhaps 16th century C.E. paintings of horse riding and maybe polo playing men. A close analysis of the writing leads Lucy Zuberbuehler to formulate (i.a.) the following important observation: "The inability to locate any obvious ink failure could mean that the Kabul manuscript was written with a reservoir pen. This type of pen purportedly existed as early as the 10th century in the Islamic world" (p. 15). Suppose the folio is 1/2 a millennium or even, somehow, 2 millennia old (as the oldest currently available birch bark mss fragments): the gap with the Indus civilization period is in either case still enormous. If the signs on this folio do have a syllabic or alphabetic value and if they do represent a "living" script, their correspondence with the much older Indus signs is simply TOO exact, since in other living scripts, at least alphabetic and syllabic-alphabetic ones, significant cummulative modifications are observed every two centuries or so (unless printing intervenes). Did someone copy the signs (perhaps several centuries ago) from some other object without knowing what the signs represented? Did the signs fail to evolve significantly as they had a non-alphabetic and non-syllabic function also for the one who wrote the signs on the folio? Finally, can any functional continuity be accepted between the use of signs in the Indus civilization and the use of similar signs on the Kabul manuscript, around two or rather three millennia later? Jan Houben From karp at UW.EDU.PL Sat Nov 19 08:27:47 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 11 09:27:47 +0100 Subject: Another bit of black anti-rakshas PR? Message-ID: <161227094468.23782.6025028320703229906.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 902 Lines: 29 Dear List, In Ram. III, 2 there appears a hideous rakshas, Viradha. Described as a monstrosity, he is garbed in animal skins, splattered with blood and marrow. Now, in III, 2.7 he is shown as carrying on an iron spear dead animals: three lions, four tigers, two wolves and ten [spotted] antilopes (plus a huge elephant's head): tr?n si?h??? caturo vy?ghr?n dvau v?kau p??at?n da?a The numbers of these animals seem to form a sequence, 3-4-2-10. Considering that Viradha (who, surprisingly, presents himself as a defender of ashramic values) is compared twice to "the one who ends [the world]", antaka: III, 2.6: tr?sana? sarvabh?t?n?? vy?dit?syam iv?ntakam III, 2.9: abhyadh?vat susa?kruddha? praj?? k?la iv?ntaka? . shouldn't we see in the sequence a deliberate, satirical distortion of the numbers 4-3-2-0 of the kali-yuga's 432 000 and the catur-yuga's 4 320 000 years? Artur Karp Poland From jkirk at SPRO.NET Sat Nov 19 17:54:57 2011 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (Jo) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 11 10:54:57 -0700 Subject: Another bit of black anti-rakshas PR? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094470.23782.11226698990629587016.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1206 Lines: 33 This proves that Valmiki invented the shish-kabob. Joanna K. US -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Artur Karp Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 1:28 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Another bit of black anti-rakshas PR? Dear List, In Ram. III, 2 there appears a hideous rakshas, Viradha. Described as a monstrosity, he is garbed in animal skins, splattered with blood and marrow. Now, in III, 2.7 he is shown as carrying on an iron spear dead animals: three lions, four tigers, two wolves and ten [spotted] antilopes (plus a huge elephant's head): tr?n si?h??? caturo vy?ghr?n dvau v?kau p??at?n da?a The numbers of these animals seem to form a sequence, 3-4-2-10. Considering that Viradha (who, surprisingly, presents himself as a defender of ashramic values) is compared twice to "the one who ends [the world]", antaka: III, 2.6: tr?sana? sarvabh?t?n?? vy?dit?syam iv?ntakam III, 2.9: abhyadh?vat susa?kruddha? praj?? k?la iv?ntaka? . shouldn't we see in the sequence a deliberate, satirical distortion of the numbers 4-3-2-0 of the kali-yuga's 432 000 and the catur-yuga's 4 320 000 years? Artur Karp Poland From jkirk at SPRO.NET Sat Nov 19 19:39:57 2011 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (Jo) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 11 12:39:57 -0700 Subject: Another bit of black anti-rakshas PR? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094476.23782.6186367404699932865.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 673 Lines: 25 Dear Artur, A shish-kabob is pieces of meat on a skewer, intended for the grill. Valmiki, the presumptive author of the Ramayana? Perhaps the cultural barrier is about making silly jokes rather than anything else. Best wishes, Joanna -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Artur Karp Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 12:32 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Another bit of black anti-rakshas PR? Dear Joanna, I guess there must be a cultural barrier at work here. I don't seem to understand your comment, not with Valmiki cast in the role of a shish-kebab inventor. Regards, Artur K. From karp at UW.EDU.PL Sat Nov 19 19:31:36 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 11 20:31:36 +0100 Subject: Another bit of black anti-rakshas PR? In-Reply-To: <007a01cca6e4$5a6d7960$0f486c20$@spro.net> Message-ID: <161227094473.23782.15471069424169291794.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 194 Lines: 12 Dear Joanna, I guess there must be a cultural barrier at work here. I don't seem to understand your comment, not with Valmiki cast in the role of a shish-kebab inventor. Regards, Artur K. From reimann at BERKELEY.EDU Sun Nov 20 05:57:05 2011 From: reimann at BERKELEY.EDU (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 11 21:57:05 -0800 Subject: Another bit of black anti-rakshas PR? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094481.23782.6658076826856500529.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2300 Lines: 65 Dear Artur, 4-3-2-1 is not the same as 3-4-2-10. And you're ignoring the elephant head. With it, the numerical sequence would be 3-4-2-10-1. If you want to see an intentionally distorted numerical sequence here (I don't), one could see 1+2+3+4 = 10. As for taking /antaka/ to mean "the end of the world," there is no context for such a reading here. /Antaka/ looks here like the usual reference to death (the 'ender' of life), just as Pollock takes it in his translation. /K?la/, time, is commonly used in the epics as a synonym for death, as time eventually takes everyone's life away. If the 'end of the world' were meant, one would expect the term /yug?nta/. See for instance, a few sargas down the line, at 3.23.26: /yug?nt?gnir iva/ These comparisons to /yug?nta/ appear several times in V?lm?ki (and many, many times in the /Mah?bh?rata/), but even they don't necessarily imply a reference to the theory of the four yugas. If one gets too 'creative' with these sorts of interpretations one can find almost anything in a text (including shish-kakob, to follow Joanna joke). Regards, Luis Gonz?lez-Reiman _____ on 11/19/2011 12:27 AM Artur Karp wrote: > Dear List, > > In Ram. III, 2 there appears a hideous rakshas, Viradha. Described as > a monstrosity, he is garbed in animal skins, splattered with blood and > marrow. > > Now, in III, 2.7 he is shown as carrying on an iron spear dead > animals: three lions, four tigers, two wolves and ten [spotted] > antilopes (plus a huge elephant's head): > > tr?n si?h??? caturo vy?ghr?n dvau v?kau p??at?n da?a > > The numbers of these animals seem to form a sequence, 3-4-2-10. > Considering that Viradha (who, surprisingly, presents himself as a > defender of ashramic values) is compared twice to "the one who ends > [the world]", antaka: > > III, 2.6: tr?sana? sarvabh?t?n?? vy?dit?syam iv?ntakam > III, 2.9: abhyadh?vat susa?kruddha? praj?? k?la iv?ntaka? > . > shouldn't we see in the sequence a deliberate, satirical distortion of > the numbers 4-3-2-0 of the kali-yuga's 432 000 and the catur-yuga's 4 > 320 000 years? > > Artur Karp > Poland > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From reimann at BERKELEY.EDU Sun Nov 20 07:13:17 2011 From: reimann at BERKELEY.EDU (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 11 23:13:17 -0800 Subject: Another bit of black anti-rakshas PR? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094484.23782.12308808090822668732.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3204 Lines: 86 Dear Artur, I mistakenly sent my previous reply only to you, and not to the list. I have just resent it to INDOLOGY. I'm surprised that your reply to me was returned (it didn't reach me), although the Berkeley server has been having problems the last few days, so maybe that is the reason. In response to your comments below, it is true that /k?la/ can also be used for the destruction of the world, and it is so used in the /G?t?/ passage you quote, although in that passage there is an explicit mention of the destruction of the /lokas/. But the fact is that it is a formula in the epics to refer to /yug?nta/ when comparisons to the end of the world are meant. I have worked on this, and I will send you privately an article that discusses it. This doesn't prove that you are wrong, of course, but I think it is very unlikely that these verses refer to the end of the world. You quote from MW: abhy-adh?vata praj?? k?la iv?ntaka? - "he attacked the people like Time the destroyer". (Ra 3.2.9.) You seem sure that MW here has the meaning of the end of the world in mind, instead of death, but that appears unlikely, as before the example you quote he writes: "...time (as destroying all things) , death, time of death (often personified and represented with the attributes of Yama, regent of the dead, or even identified with him: hence /k?lam-i /or /k?la?-kr?/," to die "' MBh. &c. ;/k?la/ in this sense is frequently connected with /antaka/, /mr?tyu/..." Anyway, please consider this as a difference of opinion. I'm sorry if you took the last sentence in my previous reply as an offense. It wasn't meant that way. Regards, Luis _____ on 11/19/2011 4:50 PM Artur Karp wrote: > Dear Joanna, > > A couple of clarifications here. > > Since Viradha is vy?dit?sya ("open-mouthed"), I feel entitled to see > here a definitely satirical allusion to the image of the ultimate > Finisher, the Saturn-like Vishnu, described in the Bhagavadgita > (XI,24) as vy?tt?nana ("open-mouthed"). > > Yes, Pollock has "like Death attacking peple at their fated hour". But > Monier-Williams, SED, p. 278, comments, more old-fashionedly, on k?la: > > abhy-adh?vata praj?? k?la iv?ntaka? - "he attacked the people like > Time the destroyer". And this rendering reminds me of the famous > phrase: k?lo 'smi loka-k?aya-k?t "I am Time, the destroyer of the > world" (Bhg. XI,32). > > The Viradha episode mixes horror-like images with satire. Viradha, > despite his outward resemblance to Time, the world destroyer, is > ultimately found out to be a foolish monster, his rage - an expression > of empty pretences. > > Everything about him is confused - as the sequence 3-4-2 in place of > the expected (and sacred, mentioned already in the ?atapatha-brahmana) > 4-3-2? > > Regards, > > Artur Karp > > PS. My letter in answer to Louis Gonzalez-Reimann remarks (mostly > negative) re has provoked a mechanic reaction: "Delivery to the > following recipient failed permanently: > reimann at berkeley.edu.". Etc. > > A. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at UW.EDU.PL Sun Nov 20 00:50:55 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 11 01:50:55 +0100 Subject: Another bit of black anti-rakshas PR? In-Reply-To: <000601cca6f3$05175260$0f45f720$@spro.net> Message-ID: <161227094478.23782.15232869680548162408.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1258 Lines: 39 Dear Joanna, A couple of clarifications here. Since Viradha is vy?dit?sya ("open-mouthed"), I feel entitled to see here a definitely satirical allusion to the image of the ultimate Finisher, the Saturn-like Vishnu, described in the Bhagavadgita (XI,24) as vy?tt?nana ("open-mouthed"). Yes, Pollock has "like Death attacking peple at their fated hour". But Monier-Williams, SED, p. 278, comments, more old-fashionedly, on k?la: abhy-adh?vata praj?? k?la iv?ntaka? - "he attacked the people like Time the destroyer". And this rendering reminds me of the famous phrase: k?lo 'smi loka-k?aya-k?t "I am Time, the destroyer of the world" (Bhg. XI,32). The Viradha episode mixes horror-like images with satire. Viradha, despite his outward resemblance to Time, the world destroyer, is ultimately found out to be a foolish monster, his rage - an expression of empty pretences. Everything about him is confused - as the sequence 3-4-2 in place of the expected (and sacred, mentioned already in the ?atapatha-brahmana) 4-3-2? Regards, Artur Karp PS. My letter in answer to Louis Gonzalez-Reimann remarks (mostly negative) re has provoked a mechanic reaction: "Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently: reimann at berkeley.edu.". Etc. A. From karp at UW.EDU.PL Sun Nov 20 10:27:05 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 11 11:27:05 +0100 Subject: Another bit of black anti-rakshas PR? In-Reply-To: <4EC8A88D.1080407@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227094488.23782.10220428971238747627.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1456 Lines: 40 Dear Louis, > As for taking antaka to mean "the end of the world," there is no context for such a reading here. Right. Agreed. But - note please - there is no reading of the sort you quote in my first message. What I suggested is: "the one who ends [the world]", antaka. Maybe "Finisher" or "Destroyer" would have been more appropriate. In the sentence: abhyadh?vat susa?kruddha? praj?? k?la iv?ntaka? k?la can be taken as representing k?la? (Nom.), or k?le (Loc.). M-W favors the Nom., Pollock, clearly, the Loc. In other words, M-W identifies k?la with antaka: Time (k?la) as Destroyer (antaka). Pollock has Death (antaka) in the fated hour (k?le). As I see it, Pollock's reading obscures the deeper meaning of the Viradha episode - as a deliberate (and dehumanizing) satire. Which ridicules the attempts at un-regulated, aggressive acculturation: they may (and do) produce only worthless, garbled imitations, and conceptual monstrosities. Thank you for both the links. Some ramblings of mine re time in the Mahabharata can be found in my paper on the concept of time and time reckoning in Indian tradition: _W poszukiwaniu doskona?o?ci: czas i kalendarz w tradycji indyjskiej_ (In search of perfection: time and calendar in Indian tradition), [in:] Izabela Trzci?ska (ed.), _Tajemnica czasu i religie_, Aureus, Krak?w 2005, pp. 78-99. If anyone would want to read the Polish text, I can gladly send them pdf copies off-list. Regards, Artur From jkirk at SPRO.NET Sun Nov 20 23:57:20 2011 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (Jo) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 11 16:57:20 -0700 Subject: Fwd: MAX MUELLER- BOOKS ON INDIA In-Reply-To: <02C9CADF-9E54-4852-90BE-BAC08DDD7E3B@uni-bonn.de> Message-ID: <161227094497.23782.8681153452615186992.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2548 Lines: 115 The US Library of Congress lists 210 entries. http://tinyurl.com/7oy8emk or http://catalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?hd=1,2 &Search%5FArg=Friedrich%20Max%20M%C3%BCller&Search%5FCode=NAME%40&CNT=100&PI D=QCh_OVUok2aBsmYeR3-O6K7P&HIST=0&SEQ=20111120185330&SID=1 Joanna Kirkpatrick From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Peter Wyzlic Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 2:34 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: MAX MUELLER- BOOKS ON INDIA Am 20.11.2011 um 20:49 schrieb Dominik Wujastyk: If anyone has, or knows of, a bibliography of the works of Max Muller, then the person below would be glad to know. Please reply directly to alakendu das ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: alakendu das Date: 19 November 2011 16:18 Subject: MAX MUELLER- BOOKS ON INDIA To: INDOLOGYCOMMITTEE at liverpool.ac.uk To All Members and Scholars in Indology, May I kindly be informed of the list of books written by Max Mueller, the German philosopher , on ancient Indian heritage and culture. You will find an overview in Jacques Waardenburg: Classical approaches to the study of religion : aims, methods and theories of research. Vol. 2: Bibliography. The Hague, Paris : Mouton, 1974, pp. 184 seqq. (compare URL: &lpg=PP1&hl=de&pg=PA184#v=onepage>) Waardenburg refers to two older bibliographies: one by Winternitz (1893) and another one by Michael Johan de Goeje, in an obituary published in 1902. If you do not already know it: Nirad C. Chaudhuri: Scholar extraordinary : the life of Professor the Rt. Hon. Friedrich Max M?ller, P. C. / by Nirad C. Chaudhuri. - London : Chatto & Windus, 1974 (an Indian edition came out in 1974 by Orient Paperbacks, reprinted in 1996) contains a small bibliography on p. 385 seq. Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Nov 20 19:49:06 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 11 20:49:06 +0100 Subject: Fwd: MAX MUELLER- BOOKS ON INDIA In-Reply-To: <20111119151824.29001.qmail@f6mail-145-153.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: <161227094491.23782.3515223891511622121.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 836 Lines: 27 If anyone has, or knows of, a bibliography of the works of Max Muller, then the person below would be glad to know. Please reply directly to alakendu das ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: alakendu das Date: 19 November 2011 16:18 Subject: MAX MUELLER- BOOKS ON INDIA To: INDOLOGYCOMMITTEE at liverpool.ac.uk To All Members and Scholars in Indology, May I kindly be informed of the list of books written by Max Mueller, the German philosopher , on ancient Indian heritage and culture. Thanking you, in anticipation ALAKENDU DAS mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Sun Nov 20 21:33:48 2011 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 11 22:33:48 +0100 Subject: Fwd: MAX MUELLER- BOOKS ON INDIA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094494.23782.2584911473456249424.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1749 Lines: 41 Am 20.11.2011 um 20:49 schrieb Dominik Wujastyk: > If anyone has, or knows of, a bibliography of the works of Max Muller, then the person below would be glad to know. Please reply directly to alakendu das > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: alakendu das > Date: 19 November 2011 16:18 > Subject: MAX MUELLER- BOOKS ON INDIA > To: INDOLOGYCOMMITTEE at liverpool.ac.uk > > > > To All Members and Scholars in Indology, > > > May I kindly be informed of the list of books written by Max Mueller, the German philosopher , on ancient Indian heritage and culture. > You will find an overview in Jacques Waardenburg: Classical approaches to the study of religion : aims, methods and theories of research. Vol. 2: Bibliography. The Hague, Paris : Mouton, 1974, pp. 184 seqq. (compare URL: ) Waardenburg refers to two older bibliographies: one by Winternitz (1893) and another one by Michael Johan de Goeje, in an obituary published in 1902. If you do not already know it: Nirad C. Chaudhuri: Scholar extraordinary : the life of Professor the Rt. Hon. Friedrich Max M?ller, P. C. / by Nirad C. Chaudhuri. - London : Chatto & Windus, 1974 (an Indian edition came out in 1974 by Orient Paperbacks, reprinted in 1996) contains a small bibliography on p. 385 seq. Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rpg at CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU Mon Nov 21 17:10:16 2011 From: rpg at CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU (Robert Goldman) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 11 09:10:16 -0800 Subject: The VirAdha Episode In-Reply-To: <5DE4838B-269A-4BB0-88CF-67FBB965AA7F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227094515.23782.14528276569595617123.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 6942 Lines: 163 Dear Colleagues: A few thoughts on the VirAdha episode: Adheesh is no doubt correct to read the VirAdha episode as a dramatic foreshadowing of the central narrative and emotional moment of the poem i.e. SItA's fateful abduction at the hands of RAva?a. Both epic poets like to reinforce or overdetermine such critical thematic elements as we can see also in the multiple assaults on DraupadI in the MBh at the hands of KIcaka and Jayadratha which echo, as it were her abuse at the hands of Duryodhana and DuHZAsana. But the episode appears to serve some other interesting functions as well. For one thing it marks the exiled trio's passage from the romantic, sylvan setting of CitrakUTa into the deeper, more fearsome forests of the Da??aka peopled only by monstrous, flesh-easting r?kSasas and their prey, the pious AZram-dwelling sages. Then, too it provides the poet with another opportunity like the one afforded by the AhalyA episode in the BAlakANDa to demonstrate that his hero, although to all appearances a man, possesses the power to grant salvation through the release from curses incurred as a result of wrongful acts. In addition, as I pointed out in an earlier article, ("RAmaH SahalakSmaNaH" Journal of Indian Philosophy 8. 1980 pp, 149-189, footnote 47) it affords the poet with yet another occasion to highlight the complementary emotional responses of RAma and LakSmaNa. Earlier, when the order of banishment is given, the latter is filled with rage and prepares to contest it violently; but R?ma calms him and graciously accepts his exile and loss of the throne. Later, when RAma is provoked to fearsome rage by the abduction of SItA, it is LakSmaNa who is the voice of calmness and constructive action, Here, interestingly, RAma's first reaction to VirAdha's assault is debilitating grief and it is necessary for LakSmaNa to exhort him and stir him from his despair and complaining to action. As far as the comparison with Antaka, it is likely that one is reading too much into it. This is a standard and even cliched simile in the epic for a fearsome warrior or adversary. VAlmIki uses it dozens of times, especially of course in the YuddhakANDa where a wide range of figures on both sides of the war are likened to Anataka, Yama, and/or KAla. Finally, I think we should not over interpret the numbers used in the passage. The poem is filled with numbers: numbers of years, numbers of arrows, numbers of heads, numbers of rAkSasas, numbers of vAnaras ranging from the low integers to vast astronomical numbers. If we are to read each of these numbers as coded references to metaphysical or cosmological concepts there would never be an end of it. Perhaps sometimes numbers are just that, numbers. Dr. R. P. Goldman Professor of Sanskrit Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540 The University of California at Berkeley Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 Tel: 510-642-4089 Fax: 510-642-2409 On Nov 21, 2011, at 4:42 AM, Adheesh Sathaye wrote: > Dear Artur et al, > > Perhaps the medieval commentators may prove helpful for the reading > of VR 3.2.9. All three published in the Gujarati Printing Press > edition (reprinted by Parimal, and quite nicely available on > archive.org!) seem to take the sandhi as "kAle." govindarAja and > zivasahAya (respectively) gloss "kAle" as "saMhAra-samaye" and > "saMhAra-kAle" (both meaning "at the time of dissolution"). However, > zivasahAya further glosses "antakaH" as "kAlaH" ("Time/Death"). > nAgezabhaTTA is probably most helpful for your case. He suggests > "kAle yugAntakAle" "'In Time' meaning 'At the end of an Age'". He > further offers "vRddhaH 'antakaH" as a gloss -- "antaka [Death/ > Destroyer/Ender] has grown." > > As for the number of animals, it is curious that the commentators > don't go into this question, since it is precisely the kind of thing > that they often argue about. Perhaps some of the other commentaries > do get into it. > > But if I might hazard speculation: The Viradha episode might also be > taken as a prismatic/bizarre foreshadowing of Rama's later encounter > with Ravana. Here is a demon who has been granted a boon of > invulnerability, who attempts to abduct Sita, and so on. So I > wonder if the numbers of animal victims here might be a twist on the > various deities captured by Ravana? (3=trimurti; 4=lokapalas; > 2=Asvins; 10=?). Just a thought! > > I wonder if the Ramayana on the whole might be less worried about > apocalypse than the Mahabharata--rather, superheroes and super- > villains occupy Valmiki's literary gaze. And the latter especially > become grotesque/satirical: see Robert Goldman's discussion in his > essay "Ravana's Kitchen," for example (appears in _Questioning > Ramayanas_ ed. Paula Richman). > > For more on the subject matter you're raising, you may also already > know of Goldman's comparison of the two epics' discursive > construction of "Ages" in an essay entitled "The Spirit of the Age" > in the RK Sharma Festschrift (Delhi: Pratibha Prakashan, 2006). Hope > this might be helpful! > > All best wishes, > > Adheesh > > > ---- > Adheesh Sathaye > Department of Asian Studies > University of British Columbia > > > On Nov 20, 2011, at 3:57 PM, Artur Karp wrote: > >> Dear Louis, >> >>> As for taking antaka to mean "the end of the world," there is no >>> context for such a reading here. >> >> Right. Agreed. But - note please - there is no reading of the sort >> you >> quote in my first message. >> What I suggested is: "the one who ends [the world]", antaka. Maybe >> "Finisher" or "Destroyer" would have been more appropriate. >> >> In the sentence: >> >> abhyadh?vat susa?kruddha? praj?? k?la iv?ntaka? >> >> k?la can be taken as representing k?la? (Nom.), or k?le (Loc.). >> M-W >> favors the Nom., Pollock, clearly, the Loc. In other words, M-W >> identifies k?la with antaka: Time (k?la) as Destroyer (antaka). >> Pollock has Death (antaka) in the fated hour (k?le). >> >> As I see it, Pollock's reading obscures the deeper meaning of the >> Viradha episode - as a deliberate (and dehumanizing) satire. Which >> ridicules the attempts at un-regulated, aggressive acculturation: >> they >> may (and do) produce only worthless, garbled imitations, and >> conceptual monstrosities. >> >> Thank you for both the links. >> >> Some ramblings of mine re time in the Mahabharata can be found in my >> paper on the concept of time and time reckoning in Indian tradition: >> _W poszukiwaniu doskona?o?ci: czas i kalendarz w tradycji >> indyjskiej_ >> (In search of perfection: time and calendar in Indian tradition), >> [in:] Izabela Trzci?ska (ed.), _Tajemnica czasu i religie_, Aureus, >> Krak?w 2005, pp. 78-99. If anyone would want to read the Polish >> text, >> I can gladly send them pdf copies off-list. >> >> Regards, >> >> Artur From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Mon Nov 21 04:23:28 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 11 09:53:28 +0530 Subject: Fwd: MAX MUELLER- BOOKS ON INDIA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094501.23782.11244794340524736538.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1403 Lines: 45 A Seminar had been organized in 2000 by the Asiatic Society, Calcutta on the 100th death anniversary of F. Max M?ller. The proceedings were later published. It may be consulted for information on Max M?ller. Contact numbers are "theasiaticsociety "theasiaticsociety at gmail.com or The Asiatic Society, 1 Park Street, Kolkata 700016, WB., India Best DB ________________________________ From: Dominik Wujastyk To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Monday, 21 November 2011 1:19 AM Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: MAX MUELLER- BOOKS ON INDIA If anyone has, or knows of, a bibliography of the works of Max Muller, then the person below would be glad to know.? Please reply directly to? alakendu das ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: alakendu das Date: 19 November 2011 16:18 Subject: MAX MUELLER- BOOKS ON INDIA To: INDOLOGYCOMMITTEE at liverpool.ac.uk To All Members and Scholars in Indology, May I kindly be informed of the list of books written by Max Mueller, the German philosopher , on ancient Indian heritage and culture. Thanking you, in anticipation ALAKENDU DAS mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Nov 21 09:14:04 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 11 10:14:04 +0100 Subject: Fwd: MAX MUELLER- BOOKS ON INDIA In-Reply-To: <1321849408.72973.YahooMailNeo@web94815.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227094504.23782.1237357090657773567.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1777 Lines: 57 As far as I can tell, those who have been kind enough to respond to this Max Muller query here in the forum have not copied their replies to the original questioner, who will therefore be none the wiser. DW On 21 November 2011 05:23, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > A Seminar had been organized in 2000 by the Asiatic Society, Calcutta on > the 100th death anniversary of F. Max M?ller. The proceedings were later > published. It may be consulted for information on Max M?ller. > Contact numbers are "theasiaticsociety "theasiaticsociety at gmail.com > or > The Asiatic Society, 1 Park Street, Kolkata 700016, WB., India > Best > DB > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Dominik Wujastyk > *To:* INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > *Sent:* Monday, 21 November 2011 1:19 AM > *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] Fwd: MAX MUELLER- BOOKS ON INDIA > > If anyone has, or knows of, a bibliography of the works of Max Muller, > then the person below would be glad to know. Please reply directly to alakendu das < > mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com> > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: alakendu das > Date: 19 November 2011 16:18 > Subject: MAX MUELLER- BOOKS ON INDIA > To: INDOLOGYCOMMITTEE at liverpool.ac.uk > > > > To All Members and Scholars in Indology, > > > May I kindly be informed of the list of books written by Max Mueller, the > German philosopher , on ancient Indian heritage and culture. > > Thanking you, in anticipation > > ALAKENDU DAS > mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at UW.EDU.PL Mon Nov 21 13:07:41 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 11 14:07:41 +0100 Subject: Another bit of black anti-rakshas PR? In-Reply-To: <5DE4838B-269A-4BB0-88CF-67FBB965AA7F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227094513.23782.6744982941733791102.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1062 Lines: 32 Dear Adheesh, thanks for your comments. They are more than helpful. Especially as they confirm my intuitions re the Ramayanic use of satirical elements and its social context. Robert Goldman's "Ravana's Kitchen" can be found under: http://tinyurl.com/cy5thma and thank you again for reminding me of its existence. I read it afresh today, with pleasure. I do believe the negative and highly stereotypized imagery of the Other, brought in use whenever the term "rakshas/rakshasa" appears, deserves a thorough study. A task for the younger generation of South Asia scholars. > He further offers "vRddhaH 'antakaH" as a gloss -- "antaka [Death/Destroyer/Ender] has grown." Is your quotation from this Parimal's edition? http://www.archive.org/stream/ValmikiRamayana/Aranyakanda_III#page/n13/mode/2up What I see here is: kAle yugAntakAle vRddho 'ntakah. Wouldn't that rather mean that antaka is vRddha - meaning "Antaka is The Old/Ancient One"? If so, wouldn't "The Old One" mean "The Old Time" described in the Bhg. XI.32 as pravRddha? The best, Artur From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Mon Nov 21 10:56:05 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 11 16:26:05 +0530 Subject: Fwd: MAX MUELLER- BOOKS ON INDIA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094507.23782.9309136400302349206.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2063 Lines: 72 It was sent to you by error. The original questioner was sent another mail and shall be wiser. DB ________________________________ From: Dominik Wujastyk To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Monday, 21 November 2011 2:44 PM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: MAX MUELLER- BOOKS ON INDIA As far as I can tell, those who have been kind enough to respond to this Max Muller query here in the forum have not copied their replies to the original questioner, who will therefore be none the wiser. DW On 21 November 2011 05:23, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: A Seminar had been organized in 2000 by the Asiatic Society, Calcutta on the 100th death anniversary of F. Max M?ller. The proceedings were later published. It may be consulted for information on Max M?ller. >Contact numbers are "theasiaticsociety "theasiaticsociety at gmail.com >or >The Asiatic Society, 1 Park Street, Kolkata 700016, WB., India >Best >DB > > > >________________________________ > From: Dominik Wujastyk >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Sent: Monday, 21 November 2011 1:19 AM >Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: MAX MUELLER- BOOKS ON INDIA > > > >If anyone has, or knows of, a bibliography of the works of Max Muller, then the person below would be glad to know.? Please reply directly to? alakendu das > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: alakendu das >Date: 19 November 2011 16:18 >Subject: MAX MUELLER- BOOKS ON INDIA >To: INDOLOGYCOMMITTEE at liverpool.ac.uk > > > >To All Members and Scholars in Indology, > > >May I kindly be informed of the list of books written by Max Mueller, the German philosopher , on ancient Indian heritage and culture. > >Thanking you, in anticipation > >ALAKENDU DAS >mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adheesh1 at GMAIL.COM Mon Nov 21 12:42:55 2011 From: adheesh1 at GMAIL.COM (Adheesh Sathaye) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 11 18:12:55 +0530 Subject: Another bit of black anti-rakshas PR? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094510.23782.12968910443908361739.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3679 Lines: 65 Dear Artur et al, Perhaps the medieval commentators may prove helpful for the reading of VR 3.2.9. All three published in the Gujarati Printing Press edition (reprinted by Parimal, and quite nicely available on archive.org!) seem to take the sandhi as "kAle." govindarAja and zivasahAya (respectively) gloss "kAle" as "saMhAra-samaye" and "saMhAra-kAle" (both meaning "at the time of dissolution"). However, zivasahAya further glosses "antakaH" as "kAlaH" ("Time/Death"). nAgezabhaTTA is probably most helpful for your case. He suggests "kAle yugAntakAle" "'In Time' meaning 'At the end of an Age'". He further offers "vRddhaH 'antakaH" as a gloss -- "antaka [Death/Destroyer/Ender] has grown." As for the number of animals, it is curious that the commentators don't go into this question, since it is precisely the kind of thing that they often argue about. Perhaps some of the other commentaries do get into it. But if I might hazard speculation: The Viradha episode might also be taken as a prismatic/bizarre foreshadowing of Rama's later encounter with Ravana. Here is a demon who has been granted a boon of invulnerability, who attempts to abduct Sita, and so on. So I wonder if the numbers of animal victims here might be a twist on the various deities captured by Ravana? (3=trimurti; 4=lokapalas; 2=Asvins; 10=?). Just a thought! I wonder if the Ramayana on the whole might be less worried about apocalypse than the Mahabharata--rather, superheroes and super-villains occupy Valmiki's literary gaze. And the latter especially become grotesque/satirical: see Robert Goldman's discussion in his essay "Ravana's Kitchen," for example (appears in _Questioning Ramayanas_ ed. Paula Richman). For more on the subject matter you're raising, you may also already know of Goldman's comparison of the two epics' discursive construction of "Ages" in an essay entitled "The Spirit of the Age" in the RK Sharma Festschrift (Delhi: Pratibha Prakashan, 2006). Hope this might be helpful! All best wishes, Adheesh ---- Adheesh Sathaye Department of Asian Studies University of British Columbia On Nov 20, 2011, at 3:57 PM, Artur Karp wrote: > Dear Louis, > >> As for taking antaka to mean "the end of the world," there is no context for such a reading here. > > Right. Agreed. But - note please - there is no reading of the sort you > quote in my first message. > What I suggested is: "the one who ends [the world]", antaka. Maybe > "Finisher" or "Destroyer" would have been more appropriate. > > In the sentence: > > abhyadh?vat susa?kruddha? praj?? k?la iv?ntaka? > > k?la can be taken as representing k?la? (Nom.), or k?le (Loc.). M-W > favors the Nom., Pollock, clearly, the Loc. In other words, M-W > identifies k?la with antaka: Time (k?la) as Destroyer (antaka). > Pollock has Death (antaka) in the fated hour (k?le). > > As I see it, Pollock's reading obscures the deeper meaning of the > Viradha episode - as a deliberate (and dehumanizing) satire. Which > ridicules the attempts at un-regulated, aggressive acculturation: they > may (and do) produce only worthless, garbled imitations, and > conceptual monstrosities. > > Thank you for both the links. > > Some ramblings of mine re time in the Mahabharata can be found in my > paper on the concept of time and time reckoning in Indian tradition: > _W poszukiwaniu doskona?o?ci: czas i kalendarz w tradycji indyjskiej_ > (In search of perfection: time and calendar in Indian tradition), > [in:] Izabela Trzci?ska (ed.), _Tajemnica czasu i religie_, Aureus, > Krak?w 2005, pp. 78-99. If anyone would want to read the Polish text, > I can gladly send them pdf copies off-list. > > Regards, > > Artur From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Mon Nov 21 17:22:37 2011 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 11 18:22:37 +0100 Subject: GRETIL update #398 Message-ID: <161227094518.23782.16405106192701564210.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 679 Lines: 32 GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Bhiksuni-Karmavacana Jnanasrimitra: Vrttamalastuti (plain text, text with pada markers, pada index) __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Nov 21 17:56:17 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 11 18:56:17 +0100 Subject: The VirAdha Episode In-Reply-To: <097DD358-3A96-4031-88D4-F423206C77E3@calmail.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227094521.23782.9519877143359306403.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 363 Lines: 17 On 21 November 2011 18:10, Robert Goldman wrote: > Dear Colleagues: [...] > Perhaps sometimes numbers are just that, numbers. > Give that man a cigar! D -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at UW.EDU.PL Mon Nov 21 19:07:30 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 11 20:07:30 +0100 Subject: The VirAdha Episode In-Reply-To: <097DD358-3A96-4031-88D4-F423206C77E3@calmail.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227094524.23782.256215760863677638.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2104 Lines: 51 Dear Prof. Goldman, Your call for - let me call it so - interpretative caution is more than justified. But there are, however, several buts here. As I understand, the role of such discussion lists as the one in which we participate consists in just what their name suggest - in presenting tentative ideas, and, hopefully, their further discussion. When I began the thread on Viradha and the black anti-rakshas PR, I ended the last sentence with a question mark. A clear signal that I am ready to accept any well reasoned argument contra. Now, I am not personally convinced that we should dismiss out of hand as not-so-important mentions of cultural terms, such as antaka, just because they seem to belong to the inventory of epic formulas and, as you put it, are "a standard and even cliched simile in the epic for a fearsome warrior or adversary". It is exactly here, where I would also call for caution. And, as an avid reader of the original text, would advise to look closely at the context in which the given term is used. Viradha episode is located in the context of Meeting, Meeting the Other, and that is exactly what makes it so interesting, even exceptional. Risking that I wouldn't deserve a cigar, I heartily disagree with your dismissive "Perhaps sometimes numbers are just that, numbers.". But no, let me correct myself. There are two key words in this sentence: "perhaps" and "sometimes". I take it then that you believe that in some instances numbers might not be "just that, numbers"? To my mind, since the Viradha episode is exceptional, several numbers inserted there by Valmiki require close attention, quite possibly much closer than the numbers mentioned in the episodes of War. You end your message on a realistically pessimistic note. "If we are to read each of these numbers as coded references to metaphysical or cosmological concepts there would never be an end of it." Do you believe there should "be an end to it"? With highest regards, Artur Karp Senior Lecturer in Sanskrit, Pali, Indian History (ret.) South Asian Studies Deptt. University of Warsaw Poland From McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Mon Nov 21 23:09:24 2011 From: McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 11 10:09:24 +1100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?The_'back-story'_of_=C5=9Aakuntal=C4=81?= In-Reply-To: <7460ef3d6dbf8.4ecada12@anu.edu.au> Message-ID: <161227094527.23782.7407077537641669727.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1134 Lines: 32 Dear Colleagues A very talented 3rd year Sanskrit student, Andrew Ritchie, has created this wonderful mock Greek drama or 'satyr play' to provide a humorous 'back-story' to K?lid?sa's Abhij??na??kuntalam. I hope you enjoy it as much as I do. I am sure Andrew would appreciate receiving your feedback: u4861023 at anu.edu.au Yours McComas -- McComas Taylor Head, South Asia Program ANU College of Asia and the Pacific Tel: +61 2 6125 3179 Location: Baldessin Precinct Building, 4.24 Website: McComas Taylor(http://arktos.anu.edu.au/chill/index.php/mct)Courses: Learn about some of my courses:? Sanskrit 1(http://www.screenr.com/NSBs)? |? Indian Epics(http://screenr.com/uUBs) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: RitchieCreativeProject2.pdf Type: application/x-unknown Size: 132625 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hermantull at GMAIL.COM Tue Nov 22 15:13:31 2011 From: hermantull at GMAIL.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 11 10:13:31 -0500 Subject: vedic concordance Message-ID: <161227094532.23782.18158873754643205808.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 404 Lines: 17 I have been trying to access the electronic Vedic concordance (http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/VedicConcordance/ReadmeEng.html). This link takes me to a page that has the bold face statement: "Access Forbidden." Is there another way to get to this (does it still exist?) Or, perhaps it senses I am not a vaidika? Thanks for any direction on this... -- Herman Tull Princeton, NJ 08540 From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Tue Nov 22 16:05:44 2011 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 11 17:05:44 +0100 Subject: vedic concordance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094534.23782.5851932066944543992.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1232 Lines: 37 Am 22.11.2011 16:13, schrieb Herman Tull: > I have been trying to access the electronic Vedic concordance > (http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/VedicConcordance/ReadmeEng.html). > This link takes me to a page that has the bold face statement: > "Access Forbidden." Is there another way to get to this (does it > still exist?) > > Or, perhaps it senses I am not a vaidika? > > Thanks for any direction on this... This refers to the "Windows format", the so-called "Mac OS format" is still available. Under Windows, some unarchiving programs like Winzip, Stuffit Expander, ALZip etc. are able to extract the contents of the .hqx file. But, after that you still need to install Nisus Writer which is nowadays only available for Mac OS, so far I know. Otherwise you may to try the plain text version of Bloomfield's concordance provided by Masato Fujii, URL: A scanned version of Bloomfield's concordance is available in the Internet Archive, URL: . Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 D-53113 Bonn From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Tue Nov 22 16:11:46 2011 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 11 17:11:46 +0100 Subject: The VirAdha Episode In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094538.23782.9114499598798590361.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1723 Lines: 44 There are also interesting 'folkloric' (or mythologic) Indo-European comparative elements in that episode: the name Antaka reminds the name of the gigantic being Antaios, with whom Herakles had to fight with the hands; and the Greek hero was forced to maintain his opponent 'in the air' for killing him. Here the magic 'unkillability' of the monster is very close (3.6: zastreNAvadhyatA loke'cchedyAbhedyatvam eva ca): VirAdha has thus to be fought with the hands (3.15) in order to be vanquished (cf. 46* 1-2: with the feet also), and, for being killed, even buried 'under-ground' ('cast into a pit' transl. Pollock 3.26, reverse of the Antaios-way of being killed), 'like an elephant' according to the text of 46* 7-12 and 54* 2-3: these two star-passages are to be found in all the S mss (moral reasons behind their suppression from the critical text?) and the elements here underlined are confirmed by 6,114, 12: 'Seizing him, they hurled him, face down with his arms raised, into a pit, as he roared a mighty roar like an elephant' transl. Goldman e.a. (cf. the critical note ad loc.) Best wishes, Christophe Vielle I have dealt with this anecdotical aspect of the VirAdha episode in my book Le mytho-cycle h?ro?que dans l'aire indo-europ?enne 1996, pp. 98-99. -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ http://www.uclouvain.be/ciol -- Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of storage free. http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From franceschini.marco at FASTWEBNET.IT Tue Nov 22 18:03:20 2011 From: franceschini.marco at FASTWEBNET.IT (Marco Franceschini) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 11 19:03:20 +0100 Subject: vedic concordance In-Reply-To: <4ECBC858.4000401@uni-bonn.de> Message-ID: <161227094541.23782.659306078872765017.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2502 Lines: 55 Dear list members, the concordance is still available at: http://orient.dslo.unibo.it/OSite/vedicconc2005.html All the files contained in the .zip archive are Unicode compliant (so that you can correctly display them using any Unicode font that includes the necessary latin-character-with-diacritic glyphs), and they comes in .rtf format (the concordance file in .doc format as well), so that you can access them using any word processor, on Mac and Windows machines alike. Nonetheless, note that this version of the concordance is not the same as the one published in 2007 as HOS 66 (that is copyrighted by HUP); the free downloadable concordance reflects a previous stage of my work (2005), and it lacks the mantras (around 11,000) taken from Baudhayana ?rautas?tra. Best wishes, Marco Franceschini ---------------------- PhD, Research Fellow University of Bologna Department of Linguistics and Oriental Studies via Zamboni 33 - 40126 Bologna - Italy marco.franceschini3 at unibo.it --- Il giorno 22/nov/2011, alle ore 17.05, Peter Wyzlic ha scritto: > Am 22.11.2011 16:13, schrieb Herman Tull: >> I have been trying to access the electronic Vedic concordance >> (http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/VedicConcordance/ReadmeEng.html). >> This link takes me to a page that has the bold face statement: >> "Access Forbidden." Is there another way to get to this (does it >> still exist?) >> >> Or, perhaps it senses I am not a vaidika? >> >> Thanks for any direction on this... > > This refers to the "Windows format", the so-called "Mac OS format" is still available. Under Windows, some unarchiving programs like Winzip, Stuffit Expander, ALZip etc. are able to extract the contents of the .hqx file. But, after that you still need to install Nisus Writer which is nowadays only available for Mac OS, so far I know. > > Otherwise you may to try the plain text version of Bloomfield's concordance provided by Masato Fujii, URL: > > A scanned version of Bloomfield's concordance is available in the Internet Archive, URL: . > > Hope it helps > Peter Wyzlic > > -- > Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften > Bibliothek > Universit?t Bonn > Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 > D-53113 Bonn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hermantull at GMAIL.COM Wed Nov 23 15:47:25 2011 From: hermantull at GMAIL.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 11 10:47:25 -0500 Subject: Vedic concordance Message-ID: <161227094552.23782.3068403750581927076.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 443 Lines: 15 Thanks to all the scholars who responded to my call for help regarding the Vedic concordance. Since I no longer have access to a research library (my former institution discontinued its Sanskrit program and me with it), this sort of assistance--along with all the great web resources available (again often due to the efforts of the scholars on this list)--is what allows me to continue my research. -- Herman Tull Princeton, NJ 08540 From mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM Wed Nov 23 14:59:56 2011 From: mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM (alakendu das) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 11 14:59:56 +0000 Subject: Birch Bark manuscripts Message-ID: <161227094545.23782.3558611700001214458.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1301 Lines: 25 To all my colleagues and schlors in Indology, > > I was just going through a mail by Dr.Jan E.M.Houben regarding birch > bark manuscripts , trying to work out a similarity with Indus seals. > The thought of Birch bark,immeadiately reminded me that ancient India > boasts of the oldest manuscript in South Asia in Mathematics which was > located at Bakshali, near Peshawar(once a part of British India).The > period ranges between 1st cent C.E to 9th-12th C.E. A bunch of 70 birch > leaves were excavated .It was accidentally discovered by a farmer while > digging.The contents of the manuscipts ranged from Arithmetic including > fractions,square roots, etc to Algebra including equations of various > types. Another unique feature of Bakshali manuscript is the novel use of > Decimal system where a dot has been used for zero.and negative numbers. > It's widely acknowledged that India was the first country to introduce > the concept of Decimal system. There were many other areas of > mathematics where India were the poineer. > It indeed makes me proud as an Indian. > > ALAKENDU DAS > mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM Wed Nov 23 15:01:14 2011 From: mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM (alakendu das) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 11 15:01:14 +0000 Subject: Birch Bark manuscripts Message-ID: <161227094549.23782.3402943006870303343.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1303 Lines: 25 To all my colleagues and schlors in Indology, > > I was just going through a mail by Dr.Jan E.M.Houben regarding birch > bark manuscripts , trying to work out a similarity with Indus seals. > The thought of Birch bark,immeadiately reminded me that ancient India > boasts of the oldest manuscript in South Asia in Mathematics which was > located at Bakshali, near Peshawar(once a part of British India).The > period ranges between 1st cent C.E to 9th-12th C.E. A bunch of 70 birch > leaves were excavated .It was accidentally discovered by a farmer while > digging.The contents of the manuscipts ranged from Arithmetic including > fractions,square roots, etc to Algebra including equations of various > types. Another unique feature of Bakshali manuscript is the novel use of > Decimal system where a dot has been used for zero.and negative numbers. > It's widely acknowledged that India was the first country to introduce > the concept of Decimal system. There were many other areas of > mathematics where India were the poineer. > It indeed makes me proud as an Indian. > > ALAKENDU DAS > mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Thu Nov 24 04:16:04 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 11 09:46:04 +0530 Subject: Birch Bark manuscripts In-Reply-To: <20111123150114.21330.qmail@f6mail-145-80.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: <161227094554.23782.13440381682797659816.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2104 Lines: 46 There are quite a few examples of birch bark ms survival over + 1500 yrs.-- the Gilgit mss, bower mss etc. Thanks to them we know of the Sanskrit Vinaya and Asvaghoasha's Saariputra-. The above is said without prejudice to the different claims about the Harappan script ms. What is unproved is that it can hail from such an antiquity. We cannot forget the story of the Sukraniitisaara and of the more recent Vaastusuutropanishad. Whatever their dates, the tall claims about them seem unjustified. Best DB ________________________________ From: alakendu das To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Wednesday, 23 November 2011 8:31 PM Subject: [INDOLOGY] Birch Bark manuscripts To all my colleagues and schlors in Indology, > > I was just going through a mail by Dr.Jan E.M.Houben regarding birch > bark manuscripts , trying to work out a similarity with Indus seals. > The thought of Birch bark,immeadiately reminded me that ancient India > boasts of the oldest manuscript in South Asia in Mathematics which was > located at Bakshali, near Peshawar(once a part of British India).The > period ranges between 1st cent C.E to 9th-12th C.E. A bunch of 70 birch > leaves were excavated .It was accidentally discovered by a farmer while > digging.The contents of the manuscipts ranged from Arithmetic including > fractions,square roots, etc to Algebra including equations of various > types. Another unique feature of Bakshali manuscript is the novel use of > Decimal system where a dot has been used for zero.and negative numbers. > It's widely acknowledged that India was the first country to introduce > the concept of Decimal system. There were many other areas of > mathematics where India were the poineer. > It indeed makes me proud as an Indian. > > ALAKENDU DAS > mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com Follow?Rediff Deal ho jaye!?to get exciting offers in your city everyday. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Thu Nov 24 21:10:29 2011 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 11 22:10:29 +0100 Subject: Concerning O.U.P.'s shocking apology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094557.23782.12542847574044758172.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4224 Lines: 116 FYI -- jlc (Paris) ........................ -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Fwd: Absolutely crucial >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Paula Richman >> To: Paula Richman >> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 1:50 AM >> Subject: crucial >> >> Dear Friends: >> If you would like to add your name to the long list of signatures >> for this letter, drafted by Sheldon Pollock, in protest against >> OUP's withdrawl of A.K. Ramanujan's writings from its >> publications, in relation to the Supreme Court Decision about >> Ramanujan's essay "Many Ramayanas," please email your name, title, >> and affiliation to Andrew Ollett at this email. >> >> Thanks, >> Paula Richman >> >> >> Subject: Letter to the Chief Executive, OUP, regarding the Ramanujan >> affair >> >> Dear friends, >> >> If you are willing to sign the letter below, please send a note with >> your name, title, and affiliation to >> >> Andrew Ollett >> >> who will be compiling the list. >> >> Please circulate this letter widely (I'm running out of steam!) >> We'll be collecting signatures until Sunday Nov. 28, in time to >> deliver the list to colleagues in the UK who are holding a protest >> meeting in Oxford on Nov. 30. >> >> Thanks >> >> shelly >> >> * * * >> >> Mr. Nigel Portwood >> Chief Executive >> Oxford University Press >> Oxford, UK >> >> Dear Mr. Portwood, >> >> We have learned with shock and dismay that Oxford University Press >> India has formally apologized to the individual who brought suit >> against OUP for publishing A. K. Ramanujan's "Many Ramayanas." OUP >> India's lawyers have stated in court, "We are instructed to intimate >> to our client through you and state that our client have long >> earlier stopped selling the book, "Many Ramayanas: The Diversity of >> A Narrative Tradition in South Asia", nor have they any plans to >> reissue/re-publish the book." And further: "Our client further wish >> to assure your client that as publishers of long standing and >> repute, it has been their conscious endeavour to respect the >> plurality of Indian culture in all publishing activities which they >> undertake and very much regret that the essay in question has >> inadvertently caused your client distress and concern." In addition, >> OUP India has, it appears, subsequently withdrawn from the market >> Ramanujan's Collected Essays, in which "Many Ramayanas" also >> appears, and has assured Delhi University that it will not keep the >> book in print, a pledge that enabled the university's vice- >> chancellor to overrule his own committee who had argued for >> retaining Ramanujan's essay on the syllabus of the History department. >> >> The scholars who have signed this letter to you, many of us former >> colleagues or students of Ramanujan, but also authors who have >> published with OUP Oxford, New York, or Delhi, want to express our >> deep consternation at OUP India's self-abasement in court. We are >> also fully aware that the Ramanujan case is only the most recent in >> a series of shocking acts on the part of OUP India--including the >> suppressing or pre-censoring of scholarly books--that are inimical >> to the open exchange of ideas, the lifeblood of scholarship. >> >> This situation cannot go unchallenged. >> >> We ask that OUP withdraw its court apology, publicly state that it >> is committed to the right of scholars to publish their work without >> fear of suppression or censorship, and demonstrate this commitment >> by reprinting at once Ramanujan's Collected Essays. >> >> If you unwilling to do these things, and thereby effectively attempt >> to bury Ramanujan's book, we demand that you publicly relinquish all >> rights to his work and return them to the original copyright >> holders, so that this scholarship can be published by another press >> that understands the importance of freedom of expression, to say >> nothing of courage in the face of fanaticism. >> >> Sincerely yours, >> >> -- >> Paula Richman >> William H. Danforth Professor of South Asian Religions >> Department of Religion >> Rice Hall >> 10 N. Professor St. >> Oberlin College >> Oberlin, OH 44074 >> >> fax: 440-775-6910 > From hhhock at ILLINOIS.EDU Sat Nov 26 23:47:34 2011 From: hhhock at ILLINOIS.EDU (Hock, Hans Henrich) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 11 23:47:34 +0000 Subject: Fwd: Please add my name to those protesting OUP's craven action Message-ID: <161227094559.23782.12355295848236157270.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1310 Lines: 41 Here's a copy of the message that I sent to Andrew Ollett. Please feel free to use similar arguments. OUP should be made aware of the fact that they are aiding and abetting an ideology that has already shown its disregard for human rights and ordinary human decency in the Gujarati pogrom of 2002. All the best, Hans Henrich Hock Begin forwarded message: Date: 26 November 2011 17:44:36 CST To: > Subject: Please add my name to those protesting OUP's craven action Dear Colleague, Please add my name to the list of those protesting OUP's craven reaction to right-wing Hindu attacks on Ramanujan's essay "Many Ramayanas". What OUP has done is aiding and abetting the worst extremist/fundamentalist elements in India. Imagine their withdrawing a translation of Heinrich Heine (a german Jewish author), just because the Nazis objected. Sincerely, Hans Henrich Hock Professor Emeritus Department of Linguistics University of Illinois 4080 FLB, 707 S. Mathews Urbana IL 61801 217.333.0357 Fax: 217.244.8430 hhhock at illinois.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pennyedwards.dsseas at GMAIL.COM Sun Nov 27 17:17:52 2011 From: pennyedwards.dsseas at GMAIL.COM (Penny Edwards) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 11 09:17:52 -0800 Subject: Assistant Professor, Tamil Studies, University of California, Berkeley Message-ID: <161227094566.23782.16341561745064541338.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3202 Lines: 69 Dear Colleagues, I am delighted to announce an opening for an Assistant Professor of Tamil Studies (tenure-track), in the Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies, University of California, Berkeley. The advertisement is included below. This announcement is also scheduled to appear on, inter alia, H-Net, Classical Tamil, Modern Languages Association, and other lists/sites. Apologies in advance for multiple postings that you might receive. Further information about the Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies, and about Tamil studies at U C Berkeley, can be found at http://sseas.berkeley.edu http://tamil.berkeley.edu Please feel free to contact me with any general queries about this position, at pennyedwards.dsseas at gmail.com cc. pennyedwards at berkeley.edu With best wishes, Penny Edwards Chair, Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies, University of California, Berkeley ----------------- Assistant Professor of Tamil Studies The Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies, University of California, Berkeley, seeks to appoint an Assistant Professor of Tamil Studies (tenure-track) with a research specialization in literature and culture. PhD required. July 1, 2012 start. Duties will include teaching and developing graduate and undergraduate courses, co-ordination of Tamil language instruction, and supervision of graduate degree candidates. Advanced proficiency in both pre-modern and modern Tamil and in-depth knowledge of Tamil literary genres is required. Appreciation of the broader contexts in which Tamil textual practices and poetics have developed, is desired. Research knowledge of a second South or Southeast Asian language will be highly regarded. Applications from scholars of comparative literature, history, gender studies and/or cultural studies are welcome. The successful candidate will have demonstrated exceptional promise in research and teaching. Applications must include a statement of research plans and teaching interests, a CV (~ 3 pages), up to three significant writing samples (~ 30 pages each), and sample syllabi. Applicants must arrange for direct submission of three letters of recommendation. Please direct referees to the University?s statement on confidentiality at * www.chance.berkeley.edu/apo/evalltr.html*. Applications and signed letters of recommendation must be received by January 10, 2012. Email to tamilsearch at lists.berkeley.edu or mail to Chair, Tamil Search Committee, Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies, 7233 Dwinelle #2540, University of California, Berkeley, CA 94720-2540, USA. The department seeks candidates whose research and teaching has prepared them to contribute to our commitment to diversity and inclusion in higher education. The University of California, Berkeley is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer and is committed to addressing the family needs of faculty, including dual career couples and single parents (see http://calcierge.berkeley.edu for details). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Sun Nov 27 11:20:20 2011 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 11 12:20:20 +0100 Subject: Tsukamoto, Matsunaga &c., Bongo butte n no kenky=?UTF-8?Q?=C5=AB,?= ... Sanskrit Buddhist literature In-Reply-To: <20111127093057.GC56472@proliant.indica-et-buddhica.org> Message-ID: <161227094563.23782.15153839386963213968.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2689 Lines: 81 dear Richard, They were never published, and never will be, as far I know. There was some talk--I have not confirmed this, so treat it as perfect rumor only!--that the publisher took the ministry money intended for these publications and used it elsewhere. One would expect that if that were the case they would have been prosecuted, but... Again as far as I know, the only material from the other volumes available is that on avadana produced by Okano Kiyoshi, who some long years ago very generously posted his materials on a website: http://homepage3.nifty.com/indology/ (needless to say this is in Japanese, but ever for those who do not read Japanese the footnotes might be useful). This material is however quite out of date, and that which had been prepared for the other volumes would also now need serious revision (if it ever existed in completed form, that is). It would be an excellent idea to explore whether the prepared contributions could be posted even as is, however, and I would be more than happy to help with such an effort. Cordially, Jonathan On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Richard MAHONEY < r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org> wrote: > [Apologies for cross posting] > > Dear All, > > I have volumes III and IV of Matsunaga &c. sitting in front of me but > would also very much like to have access to the other three, I, II, > and V. The link at the bottom suggests that there are various complete > holdings in Japan but I am unable to find a complete set outside. Does > anyone know of a non-Japanese institution that holds all five? > > Main Title: Bongo butten no kenkyu? / Tsukamoto Keisho?, > Matsunaga Yu?kei, Isoda Hirofumi hencho. > Main Title: Descriptive bibliography of the Sanskrit Buddhist > literature. > Published/Created: Kyo?to : Heirakuji Shoten, <1989-199.2.> > > > Indica et Buddhica - Catalogus > Server Data: Japanese Academic Union (NACSIS-CAT). > Your query Title = Descriptive bibliography of the Sanskrit Buddhist ... > http://bit.ly/u1wpSS > > > > > Kind regards, > > Richard > > > > -- > Richard MAHONEY - Indica et Buddhica > > Littledene, Bay Road, OXFORD 7430, NZ > Tel.: +64 3 312 1699 > Handheld: +64 210 640 216 > r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org > > http://indica-et-buddhica.org > http://camera-antipodea.indica-et-buddhica.com > -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG Sun Nov 27 09:30:57 2011 From: r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 11 22:30:57 +1300 Subject: Tsukamoto, Matsunaga &c., Bongo butten no kenky=?utf-8?Q?=C5=AB,?= ... Sanskrit Buddhist literature Message-ID: <161227094561.23782.12025279906832936273.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1086 Lines: 44 [Apologies for cross posting] Dear All, I have volumes III and IV of Matsunaga &c. sitting in front of me but would also very much like to have access to the other three, I, II, and V. The link at the bottom suggests that there are various complete holdings in Japan but I am unable to find a complete set outside. Does anyone know of a non-Japanese institution that holds all five? Main Title: Bongo butten no kenkyu? / Tsukamoto Keisho?, Matsunaga Yu?kei, Isoda Hirofumi hencho. Main Title: Descriptive bibliography of the Sanskrit Buddhist literature. Published/Created: Kyo?to : Heirakuji Shoten, <1989-199.2.> Indica et Buddhica - Catalogus Server Data: Japanese Academic Union (NACSIS-CAT). Your query Title = Descriptive bibliography of the Sanskrit Buddhist ... http://bit.ly/u1wpSS Kind regards, Richard -- Richard MAHONEY - Indica et Buddhica Littledene, Bay Road, OXFORD 7430, NZ Tel.: +64 3 312 1699 Handheld: +64 210 640 216 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org http://indica-et-buddhica.org http://camera-antipodea.indica-et-buddhica.com From Marion.Rastelli at OEAW.AC.AT Mon Nov 28 11:49:22 2011 From: Marion.Rastelli at OEAW.AC.AT (Rastelli, Marion) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 11 12:49:22 +0100 Subject: Comparison Hindu and Sufi ritual Message-ID: <161227094569.23782.12135856715636032164.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 645 Lines: 20 Dear list members, I was asked the following question by a student: Are there any comparative studies that treat Hindu and Sufi ritual? I would be very grateful for any hint to such a study. Yours, Marion Rastelli Mag.Dr. Marion Rastelli Institute for the Cultural and Intellectual History of Asia Centre for Studies in Asian Cultures and Social Anthropology Austrian Academy of Sciences Apostelgasse 23 1030 Vienna Austria Phone +43 1 51581 6417 Fax +43 1 51581 6410 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jkirk at SPRO.NET Tue Nov 29 04:26:52 2011 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (Jo) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 11 21:26:52 -0700 Subject: FW: Vivaha Panchami (Nov 29) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094574.23782.9322403339949894002.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2956 Lines: 93 Recently, the list was discussing the Ramayana and the OUP issue. The marriage of Rama and Sita is a big celebration in Nepal, with images in procession and a wedding ritual. I wonder which Ramayana they read in this festival. Who might be the swami to the left, robed in orange, in the poster? (This message is from a friend who lives in Kathmandu. The choreography description reminds me of the wedding of Minakshi festival in Madurai.) Best wishes, Joanna K. ______________________ Today, on the 5th day after the waxing moon of Mangshir (Nov 29) the marriage of Sita to Ram, is celebrated, particularly in Janakpur, Sita's birthplace, and the ancient capital of her father, the wise king Janaka. Each year in Janakpur, images of Rama and Sita are brought out in colorful processions and their Hindu wedding ceremony is re-enacted. This takes place during an exciting week-long mela (religious fair). Thousands of pilgrims come from India. Cultural, agrarian and commercial exhibitions are held. Hundreds of booths and bazaar shops sell all sorts of wares to thousands of pilgrims. Dust, flies, loudspeakers blare-- and the roar of the crowd can be heard for miles around. Pilgrims who have walked for miles dry their laundry as they travel, stretching yards of colorful saris between them as they walk on the sun-baked roads, carrying bundles of provisions and cooking gear on their heads. On the first day, a great procession starts from Rama's temple. His image, dressed as a bridegroom is seated on a lavishly decorated khat on the back of a caparisoned elephant. A gold-tipped umbrella is twirled over his head, musicians play, and the festive crowd swarms along the route to the Janaki Temple of Sita, which is only a short distance away. The next day, the image of Sita is taken out from her temple and carried with great fanfare to Rama's side in a re-enactment of the Hindu marriage ceremonies, including rituals before the sacred fire. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EdenRamVivaha.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 177648 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Janakpurmela.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 91417 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 37019 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pennyedwards.dsseas at GMAIL.COM Tue Nov 29 10:54:25 2011 From: pennyedwards.dsseas at GMAIL.COM (Penny Edwards) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 11 02:54:25 -0800 Subject: Updated Web Address - Assistant Professor, Tamil Studies, UC Berkeley Message-ID: <161227094584.23782.15432317122880544480.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2987 Lines: 74 Dear Colleagues Please find attached in PDF and inline below, an updated version of the Announcement of a Position in Tamil Studies at UC Berkeley. The update relates only to the web address for the University's statement on confidentiality to which referees should be directed; all other details remain the same. With best wishes, Penny Edwards, Chair, Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies Assistant Professor, Tamil Studies, University of California, Berkeley The Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies, University of California, Berkeley, seeks to appoint an Assistant Professor of Tamil Studies (tenure-track) with a research specialization in literature and culture. PhD required. July 1, 2012 start. Duties will include teaching and developing graduate and undergraduate courses, co-ordination of Tamil language instruction, and supervision of graduate degree candidates. Advanced proficiency in both pre-modern and modern Tamil and in-depth knowledge of Tamil literary genres is required. Appreciation of the broader contexts in which Tamil textual practices and poetics have developed, is desired. Research knowledge of a second South or Southeast Asian language will be highly regarded. Applications from scholars of comparative literature, history, gender studies and/or cultural studies are welcome. The successful candidate will have demonstrated exceptional promise in research and teaching. Applications must include a statement of research plans and teaching interests, a CV (~ 3 pages), up to three significant writing samples (~ 30 pages each), and sample syllabi. Applicants must arrange for direct submission of three letters of recommendation. Please direct referees to the University?s statement on confidentiality at http://apo.chance.berkeley.edu/evalltr.html. Applications and signed letters of recommendation must be received by January 10, 2012. Email to tamilsearch at lists.berkeley.edu or mail to Chair, Tamil Search Committee, Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies, 7233 Dwinelle #2540, University of California, Berkeley, CA 94720-2540, USA. The department seeks candidates whose research and teaching has prepared them to contribute to our commitment to diversity and inclusion in higher education. The University of California, Berkeley is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer and is committed to addressing the family needs of faculty, including dual career couples and single parents (see http://calcierge.berkeley.edu/ for details). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: TamilPositionUCBerkeley.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 41614 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkirk at SPRO.NET Tue Nov 29 15:10:00 2011 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (Jo) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 11 08:10:00 -0700 Subject: FW: [INDOLOGY] FW: Vivaha Panchami (Nov 29) Message-ID: <161227094595.23782.7097994746999002108.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1494 Lines: 76 Hello Artur, Thanks for identifying the rishi. We shouldn't talk about "multiple Ramayanas",???? Well, Nepal doesn?t function under the sign of Hindutva, so I?d surmise that few there would object to the ?many Ramayanas? idea. The friend who sends me these announcements of Kathmandu festivals has a sense of humor?he usually gets the puranic and epic posters from Eden. However, it is worth noting that during the Indra jatra in Kathmandu taking bhang (as well as booze) is part of the ritual. It?s a rite of reversal, anthropologically speaking. Regards, Joanna From: Artur Karp [mailto:karp at uw.edu.pl] Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 10:48 PM To: Jo Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] FW: Vivaha Panchami (Nov 29) Dear Joanna, Looks like it's rishi Vishwamitra. But I find the combination of the picture and the text below much more interesting, culture-wise. While celebrating the divine Vivaha, <> We shouldn't talk about "multiple Ramayanas", but we can, it seems, freely link the Ramayana tradition to the local narco-business(es). Regards, Artur -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI Tue Nov 29 09:06:19 2011 From: klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI (Klaus Karttunen) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 11 11:06:19 +0200 Subject: FW: Vivaha Panchami (Nov 29) In-Reply-To: <008001ccae4f$1f054430$5d0fcc90$@spro.net> Message-ID: <161227094581.23782.10359364056013653738.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2684 Lines: 48 The swami must be Visvamitra, who brought Rama and his brother to Videha, to Sita's svayamvara. Best, Klaus Klaus Karttunen Professor of South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674 Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094 Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi On Nov 29, 2011, at 6:26 AM, Jo wrote: > Recently, the list was discussing the Ramayana and the OUP issue. The marriage of Rama and Sita is a big celebration in Nepal, with images in procession and a wedding ritual. I wonder which Ramayana they read in this festival. > > Who might be the swami to the left, robed in orange, in the poster? > (This message is from a friend who lives in Kathmandu. The choreography description reminds me of the wedding of Minakshi festival in Madurai.) > > Best wishes, > Joanna K. > ______________________ > > Today, on the 5th day after the waxing moon of Mangshir (Nov 29) the marriage of Sita to Ram, is celebrated, particularly in Janakpur, Sita's birthplace, and the ancient capital of her father, the wise king Janaka. > > > > > > Each year in Janakpur, images of Rama and Sita are brought out in colorful processions and their Hindu wedding ceremony is re-enacted. This takes place during an exciting week-long mela (religious fair). Thousands of pilgrims come from India. Cultural, agrarian and commercial exhibitions are held. Hundreds of booths and bazaar shops sell all sorts of wares to thousands of pilgrims. Dust, flies, loudspeakers blare-- and the roar of the crowd can be heard for miles around. > Pilgrims who have walked for miles dry their laundry as they travel, stretching yards of colorful saris between them as they walk on the sun-baked roads, carrying bundles of provisions and cooking gear on their heads. > > > > On the first day, a great procession starts from Rama's temple. His image, dressed as a bridegroom is seated on a lavishly decorated khat on the back of a caparisoned elephant. A gold-tipped umbrella is twirled over his head, musicians play, and the festive crowd swarms along the route to the Janaki Temple of Sita, which is only a short distance away. The next day, the image of Sita is taken out from her temple and carried with great fanfare to Rama's side in a re-enactment of the Hindu marriage ceremonies, including rituals before the sacred fire. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at UW.EDU.PL Tue Nov 29 11:10:21 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 11 12:10:21 +0100 Subject: FW: Vivaha Panchami (Nov 29) In-Reply-To: <8E2B2007-3895-4381-BE2F-7D368C8AEA95@helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <161227094589.23782.8508684775230220534.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 520 Lines: 22 Yes, rishi Vishwamitra. But I find the combination of the picture and the text below much more interesting, culture-wise. While celebrating the divine Vivaha, <> We shouldn't talk about "multiple Ramayanas", but we can, it seems, freely link the Ramayana tradition to the local narco-business(es). Regards, Artur From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Tue Nov 29 13:31:53 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 11 19:01:53 +0530 Subject: Comparison Hindu and Sufi ritual In-Reply-To: <366D7D7F1F289542B015A3E5DE057D54022112AE9A9D@W07EXCHANGE.oeaw.ads> Message-ID: <161227094592.23782.13310805696723869337.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1495 Lines: 39 Dear Friend, After much hesitation I bring to your notice the some very old publications. In fact my present studies are far removed from the subject mentioned by you. The books mentioned below were studied during student days just out of curiosity without any professional zeal. There is, moreover, every possibility of their being out dated. That is the reason for my hesitation. Please inform if you found them of any help. Influence of Islam on Indian Cultureby Tara Chand, The Indian Press, Allahabad, 1936 particularly from p.49 Glimpses of medieval Indian Culture Yusuf Husain, Asia Publishing House, 1958?? Best DB ________________________________ From: "Rastelli, Marion" To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Monday, 28 November 2011 5:19 PM Subject: [INDOLOGY] Comparison Hindu and Sufi ritual Dear list members, I was asked the following question by a student: Are there any comparative studies that treat Hindu and Sufi ritual? I would be very grateful ?for any hint to such a study. Yours, Marion Rastelli ? Mag.Dr. Marion Rastelli Institute for the Cultural and Intellectual History of Asia Centre for Studies in Asian Cultures and Social Anthropology Austrian Academy of Sciences Apostelgasse 23 1030 Vienna Austria Phone +43 1 51581 6417 Fax +43 1 51581 6410 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jkirk at SPRO.NET Wed Nov 30 05:04:43 2011 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (Jo) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 11 22:04:43 -0700 Subject: Vivaha Panchami (Nov 29) (in Nepal) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094602.23782.2587048562575161177.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2761 Lines: 96 OMG Will, Thanks for correcting my na?ve assertion. Indeed, I was characterizing the country as post-royal rulers, but the few correspondents I have there don?t speak of the picture you present; probably it?s just too uncomfortable. Not reassuring-- instead a dose of reality. How do the Newars fare with all of this Hindutva-type activity? Best wishes, Joanna From: Tuladhar-douglas, Dr William B. [mailto:w.t.douglas at abdn.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 9:06 PM To: Jo Cc: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Re: Vivaha Panchami (Nov 29) (in Nepal) On 29 Nov 2011, at 20:55, Joanna Kirkpatrick wrote: Nepal doesn?t function under the sign of Hindutva That's not necessarily true. The history of Nepalese royal Hinduism, its deployment as a national ideology by the Shah and Rana court, and resistance to that hegemony in the 18th ? 20th centuries has been well debated elsewhere. More recently, during the civil war, support for the royalist faction came in no small part from Hindutva activists concerned to protect the ?last Hindu kingdom??and several tens of thousands of people died during the war. Since the end of the war, the situation has re-polarised as a result of the move towards ethnic federalism, but Hindutva activists are active. The Shiv Sena has held demonstrations in the capital and the Terai calling for a return to state Hinduism, and the RSS runs a few schools. The question is whether, in a post-Hindu Nepal, Hindutva will become a coherent political force apart from simple anti-Maoism. Tensions between the Terai (where Janakpur is) and Kathmandu (where the government is) play into that development. It's not just the saffron squad pushing religious politics; there are an astonishing number of Protestant missionary NGOs active in Nepal. Clashes happen. The office of the United Mission to Nepal was bombed this month, and a youth leader of a Muslim party was shot dead outside the main mosque in Kathmandu about two months ago. Eden it ain't, but the threat of religious or ethnic sectarian violence?especially given the history of such violence around South Asia?is a key concern for the lawmakers trying to draft Nepal's new constitution. We learned today that the supreme court and the constituent assembly have extended that process for another six months -WBTD. - - -- --- ----- -------- ------------- Will Tuladhar-Douglas Anthropology of Environment and Religions http://tending.to/garden The University of Aberdeen is a charity registered in Scotland, No SC013683. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From w.t.douglas at ABDN.AC.UK Wed Nov 30 04:05:43 2011 From: w.t.douglas at ABDN.AC.UK (Tuladhar-douglas, Dr William B.) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 11 04:05:43 +0000 Subject: Vivaha Panchami (Nov 29) (in Nepal) In-Reply-To: <005001ccaea8$f73adaf0$e5b090d0$@spro.net> Message-ID: <161227094599.23782.13927553505989498236.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2140 Lines: 28 On 29 Nov 2011, at 20:55, Joanna Kirkpatrick wrote: Nepal doesn?t function under the sign of Hindutva That's not necessarily true. The history of Nepalese royal Hinduism, its deployment as a national ideology by the Shah and Rana court, and resistance to that hegemony in the 18th ? 20th centuries has been well debated elsewhere. More recently, during the civil war, support for the royalist faction came in no small part from Hindutva activists concerned to protect the ?last Hindu kingdom??and several tens of thousands of people died during the war. Since the end of the war, the situation has re-polarised as a result of the move towards ethnic federalism, but Hindutva activists are active. The Shiv Sena has held demonstrations in the capital and the Terai calling for a return to state Hinduism, and the RSS runs a few schools. The question is whether, in a post-Hindu Nepal, Hindutva will become a coherent political force apart from simple anti-Maoism. Tensions between the Terai (where Janakpur is) and Kathmandu (where the government is) play into that development. It's not just the saffron squad pushing religious politics; there are an astonishing number of Protestant missionary NGOs active in Nepal. Clashes happen. The office of the United Mission to Nepal was bombed this month, and a youth leader of a Muslim party was shot dead outside the main mosque in Kathmandu about two months ago. Eden it ain't, but the threat of religious or ethnic sectarian violence?especially given the history of such violence around South Asia?is a key concern for the lawmakers trying to draft Nepal's new constitution. We learned today that the supreme court and the constituent assembly have extended that process for another six months? -WBTD. - - -- --- ----- -------- ------------- Will Tuladhar-Douglas Anthropology of Environment and Religions http://tending.to/garden The University of Aberdeen is a charity registered in Scotland, No SC013683. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Wed Nov 30 08:21:14 2011 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 11 09:21:14 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?OUP_denies_=E2=80=98censorship'?= Message-ID: <161227094605.23782.6982817191290560864.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3108 Lines: 84 FYI (copied from the MinTamil list) "http://groups.google.com/group/mintamil/browse_thread/thread/50b6f97b6302e209" ****************************************** Flash from the UK via Chennai. Retrieved on 30 11 2011 from http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/article2673004.ece 30 11 2011 Ramanujan essay row: OUP denies ?censorship' HASAN SUROOR ?Commercial considerations' cited for not publishing Three Hundred Ramayanas The Oxford University Press (OUP) on Tuesday said that its decision to discontinue publishing and selling A.K. Ramanujan's essay, ?Three Hundred Ramayanas,' was based on ?commercial considerations.? It denied acting under pressure from right-wing protesters who had claimed that the essay hurt Hindu sensitivities. Nigel Portwood, chief executive of OUP UK, also denied that it had stopped printing altogether Ramanujan's Collected Essays , in which ?300 Ramayanas' appears, but said the book was available only in its ?short-run print programme because there was not a sufficient number of back orders to justify a normal reprint.? Reply to letter Replying to a letter from American Indologist Sheldon Pollock and several other leading academics, including Paula Richman in whose volume the essay appears, Mr. Portwood rejected allegations of censorship. He insisted that OUP took its ?role as a disseminator of the best scholarship in India? seriously. ?The two Ramanujan books at the centre of the current debate ? Many Ramayanas and The Collected Essays of A.K. Ramanujan ? have not been removed from the market in India through acts of censorship. Prior to 2008, both works had been showing minimal sales triggering the decision not to reprint either title. As I am sure you appreciate, commercial considerations are one of several factors in publishing decisions.? About the ?confusion? over the availability of The Collected Essays , Mr. Portwood said the book was out of stock from 2008 but OUP continued to collect a small number of back orders on its internal systems. ?In early September 2011, we put The Collected Essays into our short-run print programme because there was not a sufficient number of back orders to justify a normal reprint, and it has been listed as available on the OUP India website ever since ? some weeks before the current controversy began,? he said. In their letter, Prof. Pollock and co-signatories had conveyed their ?shock and dismay? at OUP India's action which, they said, was compounded by its abject apology in court to a group which had claimed that the essay hurt Hindu sensitivities. They urged the OUP to withdraw its court apology, publicly state that it was committed to the right of scholars to publish their work without fear of suppression or censorship, and demonstrate this commitment by reprinting Ramanujan's The Collected Essays . OUP denies acting under pressure from right-wing protesters ? Collected Essays available only in its short-run print programme? Retrieved on 30 11 2011 fromhttp://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/article2673004.ece From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Nov 30 10:49:16 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 11 11:49:16 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_OUP_denies_=E2=80=98censorship'?= In-Reply-To: <4ED5E77A.1010803@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <161227094609.23782.4993454342927148038.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 4194 Lines: 111 A quick check of the OUP India website today does show that Ramanujan's *Collected Essays* volume is currently listed as "available for immediate purchase". See attached image. Dominik -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk On 30 November 2011 09:21, Jean-Luc Chevillard < jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr> wrote: > FYI > > (copied from the MinTamil list) > > "http://groups.google.com/**group/mintamil/browse_thread/** > thread/50b6f97b6302e209 > " > > ******************************************** > > Flash from the UK via Chennai. > > > Retrieved on 30 11 2011 from > > http://www.thehindu.com/**todays-paper/tp-national/**article2673004.ece > > > 30 11 2011 > > Ramanujan essay row: OUP denies ?censorship' > > HASAN SUROOR > > > ?Commercial considerations' cited for not publishing Three Hundred > Ramayanas > > The Oxford University Press (OUP) on Tuesday said that its decision to > discontinue publishing and selling A.K. Ramanujan's essay, ?Three Hundred > Ramayanas,' was based on ?commercial considerations.? It denied acting > under pressure from right-wing protesters who had claimed that the essay > hurt Hindu sensitivities. > > Nigel Portwood, chief executive of OUP UK, also denied that it had stopped > printing altogether Ramanujan's Collected Essays , in which ?300 Ramayanas' > appears, but said the book was available only in its ?short-run print > programme because there was not a sufficient number of back orders to > justify a normal reprint.? > > Reply to letter > > Replying to a letter from American Indologist Sheldon Pollock and several > other leading academics, including Paula Richman in whose volume the essay > appears, Mr. Portwood rejected allegations of censorship. He insisted that > OUP took its ?role as a disseminator of the best scholarship in India? > seriously. > > ?The two Ramanujan books at the centre of the current debate ? Many > Ramayanas and The Collected Essays of A.K. Ramanujan ? have not been > removed from the market in India through acts of censorship. Prior to 2008, > both works had been showing minimal sales triggering the decision not to > reprint either title. As I am sure you appreciate, commercial > considerations are one of several factors in publishing decisions.? > > About the ?confusion? over the availability of The Collected Essays , Mr. > Portwood said the book was out of stock from 2008 but OUP continued to > collect a small number of back orders on its internal systems. > > ?In early September 2011, we put The Collected Essays into our short-run > print programme because there was not a sufficient number of back orders to > justify a normal reprint, and it has been listed as available on the OUP > India website ever since ? some weeks before the current controversy > began,? he said. > > In their letter, Prof. Pollock and co-signatories had conveyed their > ?shock and dismay? at OUP India's action which, they said, was compounded > by its abject apology in court to a group which had claimed that the essay > hurt Hindu sensitivities. They urged the OUP to withdraw its court apology, > publicly state that it was committed to the right of scholars to publish > their work without fear of suppression or censorship, and demonstrate this > commitment by reprinting Ramanujan's The Collected Essays . > > > > OUP denies acting under pressure from right-wing protesters > > > ? Collected Essays available only in its short-run print programme? > > > Retrieved on 30 11 2011 fromhttp://www.thehindu.com/** > todays-paper/tp-national/**article2673004.ece > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Selection_023.png Type: image/png Size: 265093 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM Wed Nov 30 16:24:55 2011 From: mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM (alakendu das) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 11 16:24:55 +0000 Subject: SUFI AND HINDU CULTURES Message-ID: <161227094614.23782.1816906292548176586.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 764 Lines: 20 To all Members and scholars in Indology, In response to Dr. Marrion Rastelli's query,from the Austrian Academy of Sciences,Vienna regarding books on sufi and Hindu culture, I , hopefully , am in aposition to refer the following books , which I came across while studying Indology- Sufism in India - Dr.Amit Dey. History of Sufism in Bengal- Md.Enamul Haq, From ALAKENDU DAS mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Oct 2 20:09:40 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 03 Oct 11 01:39:40 +0530 Subject: What's the difference between Arabic and Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227093956.23782.6461754505505562569.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 954 Lines: 25 I came across this post in a Yahoo site just now. It made me gasp aloud. Jennifer asks, What is the difference between sanskrit and Arabic? > > I wanted to get a tattoo in Arabic because I have an egyptian fascination > and want a consistent flow of relativity on my body seeing as how I already > have an ankh. A friend of mine told me I should get sanskrit because it is > more closely related to egypt. And I think Arabic is prettier. > In fact, Jennifer has received five informative answers, setting her straight, one even explaining Panini and the Astadhyayi. The correspondent "Z" makes an unassailable truth claim by asserting "I am arabic." The conclusion we must draw is that tatoo parlours badly need more Indologists. And Arabists, and Egyptologists. Dominik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athr at LOC.GOV Mon Oct 3 18:42:30 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Mon, 03 Oct 11 14:42:30 -0400 Subject: What's the difference between Arabic and Sanskrit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093959.23782.7371028379789423604.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1717 Lines: 34 Maybe some unemployed Ph.D.'s could publish an authoritative book of patterns with translations and explanations, and/or set up a site whence once could order transparencies to be used as temporary tattoos or guides for high-quality permanent tattoos. Might be less hassle and more money than being adjust assistant professor at three colleges a hundred miles apart. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Asian Division, Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4810 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 4:10 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] What's the difference between Arabic and Sanskrit I came across this post in a Yahoo site just now. It made me gasp aloud. Jennifer asks, What is the difference between sanskrit and Arabic? I wanted to get a tattoo in Arabic because I have an egyptian fascination and want a consistent flow of relativity on my body seeing as how I already have an ankh. A friend of mine told me I should get sanskrit because it is more closely related to egypt. And I think Arabic is prettier. In fact, Jennifer has received five informative answers, setting her straight, one even explaining Panini and the Astadhyayi. The correspondent "Z" makes an unassailable truth claim by asserting "I am arabic." The conclusion we must draw is that tatoo parlours badly need more Indologists. And Arabists, and Egyptologists. Dominik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhayes at UNM.EDU Mon Oct 3 22:22:18 2011 From: rhayes at UNM.EDU (Richard Hayes) Date: Mon, 03 Oct 11 16:22:18 -0600 Subject: xindy style file for Sanskrit? Message-ID: <161227093968.23782.16935763298333649612.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 561 Lines: 8 Colleagues, I have a need to generate a Sanskrit index for a piece written in xeLaTeX, and am assuming at least one of you has already written an xdy style file for the xindy index generator that would sort the entries in Sanskrit dictionary order. I have looked for such a file in all the usual places without success. I am aware of Yasuhiro Okazaki's SktSortKey program and will use it if necessary, but I thought it might be worth asking whether a sanskrit.xdy file is out there somewhere. Richard Hayes Department of Philosophy University of New Mexico From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Mon Oct 3 19:12:46 2011 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD) Date: Mon, 03 Oct 11 21:12:46 +0200 Subject: What's the difference between Arabic and Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227093962.23782.8196155877815504536.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2404 Lines: 78 Also ... do not forget that it will soon (in one or two years' time) be possible to easily have the equivalent Sanskrit sentences in the GRANTHA script,a very beautiful script !!! It is of course already possible, although tricky, (SEE: "http://www.virtualvinodh.com/download/Grantha%20Script%20Lessons.pdf") and SEE: "http://tamilonline.com/thendral/Auth.aspx?id=131&cid=4&aid=7420&m=m&template=n" (that is a recent interview [in TAMIL] by the (YOUNG) author of the grantha reader, to which the FIRST link points). It will become easy in the future to use grantha, thanks to a few bright people, helped by a few persistent people. Cheers -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris/Pondicherry) On 03/10/2011 20:42, Thrasher, Allen wrote: > Maybe some unemployed Ph.D.'s could publish an authoritative book of > patterns with translations and explanations, and/or set up a site whence > once could order transparencies to be used as temporary tattoos or > guides for high-quality permanent tattoos. Might be less hassle and > more money than being adjust assistant professor at three colleges a > hundred miles apart. > > Allen > > Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. > > Asian Division, Library of Congress > > Washington, DC 20540-4810 > > The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library > of Congress. > > *From:*Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] *On Behalf Of *Dominik > Wujastyk > *Sent:* Sunday, October 02, 2011 4:10 PM > *To:* INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] What's the difference between Arabic and Sanskrit > > I came across this post in a Yahoo site just now. It made me gasp aloud. > > Jennifer asks, > > What is the difference between sanskrit and Arabic? > > I wanted to get a tattoo in Arabic because I have an egyptian > fascination and want a consistent flow of relativity on my body seeing > as how I already have an ankh. A friend of mine told me I should get > sanskrit because it is more closely related to egypt. And I think Arabic > is prettier. > > > In fact, Jennifer has received five informative answers, setting her > straight, one even explaining Panini and the Astadhyayi. The > correspondent "Z" makes an unassailable truth claim by asserting "I am > arabic." > > The conclusion we must draw is that tatoo parlours badly need more > Indologists. And Arabists, and Egyptologists. > > Dominik > From will.sweetman at GMAIL.COM Mon Oct 3 19:15:57 2011 From: will.sweetman at GMAIL.COM (Will Sweetman) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 11 08:15:57 +1300 Subject: What's the difference between Arabic and Sanskrit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093965.23782.1016545469693079880.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1814 Lines: 28 Jennifer's friend is clearly deeply grounded in the intellectual tradition of the West. As is well known, Egypt is the mother of all idolatry, and the connection between Egypt and "sanskrit" (Jennifer's friend here clearly refers, synecdochically, to what other scholars have recently labelled "the Sanskrit cosmopolis") is firmly established in the work of many learned writers such as Fran?ois Catrou, Pierre Daniel Huet and Mathurin Veyssi?re de la Croze. The connection is also acknowledged by Indian scholars: M.N. Srinivas describes the "Egypt fixation" which his teacher G. S. Ghurye had inherited from W. H. R. Rivers, and which led him to wonder if ancestor shrines among the Coorgs were derived from the pyramids. Jennifer's wrong about Arabic being prettier, however. Will On 3/10/2011, at 9:09 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > I came across this post in a Yahoo site just now. It made me gasp aloud. > > Jennifer asks, > > What is the difference between sanskrit and Arabic? > > I wanted to get a tattoo in Arabic because I have an egyptian fascination and want a consistent flow of relativity on my body seeing as how I already have an ankh. A friend of mine told me I should get sanskrit because it is more closely related to egypt. And I think Arabic is prettier. > > In fact, Jennifer has received five informative answers, setting her straight, one even explaining Panini and the Astadhyayi. The correspondent "Z" makes an unassailable truth claim by asserting "I am arabic." > > The conclusion we must draw is that tatoo parlours badly need more Indologists. And Arabists, and Egyptologists. > > Dominik > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daniel at DANIELSTENDER.COM Tue Oct 4 07:16:46 2011 From: daniel at DANIELSTENDER.COM (Daniel Stender) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 11 09:16:46 +0200 Subject: xindy style file for Sanskrit? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093981.23782.993420490143699141.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 881 Lines: 21 Prof. Hayes, a Devanagari module for Xindy has been created by Zden?k Wagner, Anshuman Pandey, and Jaya Saraswati. Please cf. http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz/xindy-devanagari/ Greetings, Daniel Stender On 04.10.2011 00:22, Richard Hayes wrote: > Colleagues, I have a need to generate a Sanskrit index for a piece written in xeLaTeX, and am assuming at least one of you has already written an xdy style file for the xindy index generator that would sort the entries in Sanskrit dictionary order. I have looked for such a file in all the usual places without success. I am aware of Yasuhiro Okazaki's SktSortKey program and will use it if necessary, but I thought it might be worth asking whether a sanskrit.xdy file is out there somewhere. > > Richard Hayes > Department of Philosophy > University of New Mexico -- http://www.danielstender.com/granthinam/ GPG key ID: 1654BD9C From viehbeck at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Tue Oct 4 08:34:14 2011 From: viehbeck at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Viehbeck, Markus) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 11 10:34:14 +0200 Subject: FASAL_call for papers Message-ID: <161227093984.23782.16285528170050949532.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1109 Lines: 31 Dear list, A colleague asked me to spread the word about the following workshop: The Department of Linguistics & Philosophy at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) is proud to host the second Formal Approaches to South Asian Languages (FASAL) workshop. The main aim of this workshop is to provide a platform to discuss South Asian Linguistics from the perspective of formal syntax, semantics and morphology. Date: 17-Mar-2012 - 18-Mar-2012 Location: Cambridge, Massachusetts, USA Deadline for submitting proposals: 23-Dez-2011 Please visit the workshop homepage for more information: http://linguistlist.org/callconf/browse-conf-action.cfm?ConfID=138423 Best, Markus Viehbeck Markus Viehbeck Assistant, Buddhist Studies Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context" University of Heidelberg Karl Jaspers Centre Vossstra?e 2, Building 4400 D-69115 Heidelberg viehbeck at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Oct 4 06:17:22 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 11 11:47:22 +0530 Subject: RORI 2007 catalogue of Bharatpur collection Message-ID: <161227093970.23782.15861605647471119277.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 482 Lines: 14 Dear colleagues, Does anyone happen to have easy access to the RORI MS catalogue of their Bharatpur collection, published in 2007? I wish to know whether the Bharatpur collection contains any MSS of the Carakasamhita, and I'm finding it hard to get that particular catalogue volume. Best wishes, Dominik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Tue Oct 4 18:30:12 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 11 14:30:12 -0400 Subject: What's the difference between Arabic and Sanskrit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093993.23782.17165049333190057614.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1953 Lines: 52 I mistakenly sent this note only to Dominik yesterday. Perhaps it will be of some small interest to others. George On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 8:44 PM, George Thompson wrote: > Dear Dominik, et al., > > It is worse than you think. ?I have been an occasional visiting > lecturer at a "university" campus in my forlorn New England state. > Over the past few years I have gotten phone calls from students > wanting to study Arabic with me. ?These students were given my phone > number by FACULTY MEMBERS who did not know the difference between > Sanskrit and Arabic! > > It is not just tattoo parlors that badly need our help. ?Other > so-called scholars need us too. ?This is a "university", by the way, > that has no language programs, beyond a little Spanish. ?No French or > German. ?No Latin or Greek. ?No Arabic or Sanskrit. ?Nothing. And yet > it still ?chooses to call itself a university. > > Well, a good sign is that some of the students are starting to > complain. ?I have been helping them. > > George > > On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 4:09 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >> I came across this post in a Yahoo site just now.? It made me gasp aloud. >> >> Jennifer asks, >> >>> What is the difference between sanskrit and Arabic? >>> >>> I wanted to get a tattoo in Arabic because I have an egyptian fascination >>> and want a consistent flow of relativity on my body seeing as how I already >>> have an ankh. A friend of mine told me I should get sanskrit because it is >>> more closely related to egypt. And I think Arabic is prettier. >> >> In fact, Jennifer has received five informative answers, setting her >> straight, one even explaining Panini and the Astadhyayi.? The correspondent >> "Z" makes an unassailable truth claim by asserting "I am arabic." >> >> The conclusion we must draw is that tatoo parlours badly need more >> Indologists.? And Arabists, and Egyptologists. >> >> Dominik >> >> > From rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU Tue Oct 4 15:42:49 2011 From: rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU (Alexander von Rospatt) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 11 17:42:49 +0200 Subject: tenure-track position in South Asian or Southeast Asian Art at UC Berkeley Message-ID: <161227093987.23782.15810003210975497452.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2163 Lines: 27 Dear Colleagues, please make a note of the advertised tenure-track position in South Asian or Southeast Asian Art at UC Berkeley and pass this on to anyone who might be interested in applying. DEPARTMENT OF HISTORY OF ART, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY, seeks to appoint an Assistant Professor of South Asian or Southeast Asian Art (tenure-track), effective July 1, 2012. Ph.D. required. The successful candidate will teach a range of undergraduate and graduate courses. A broad perspective on art of the region in the larger Asian and global context is desirable. Participation in Berkeley's Buddhist Studies Ph.D. Program is expected. The department seeks candidates whose research, teaching, or service has prepared them to contribute to our commitment to diversity and inclusion in higher education. Applications must include CV; two-page statement of research and teaching interests and experience, with brief descriptions of courses offered or proposed; one recent publication or sample of work-in-progress (~30 pages); and three letters of reference. Please refer potential referees to the UC Berkeley statement of confidentiality found at http://apo.chance.berkeley.edu/evalltr.html. Application must be postmarked by December 1, 2011. Mail to: Patricia Berger, Chair of the Search Committee, Department of History of Art, 416 Doe Library, University of California, Berkeley, CA 94720-6020. The University of California, Berkeley, is an Equal Opportunity, Affirmative Action Employer and is committed to addressing the family needs of faculty, including dual career couples and single parents (see http://calcierge.berkeley.edu/ for details). ---------------- Alexander von Rospatt, Professor Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies University of California 7233 Dwinelle Hall # 2540 Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 USA Phone: +1-510-6421610 Fax: +1-510-6432959 Email: rospatt at berkeley.edu URL: http://sseas.berkeley.edu/people/faculty/alexander-von-rospatt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG Tue Oct 4 06:34:00 2011 From: r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 11 19:34:00 +1300 Subject: xindy style file for Sanskrit? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093978.23782.4363877736101223302.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1163 Lines: 37 Dear Richard, On Mon, Oct 03, 2011 at 04:22:18PM -0600, Richard Hayes wrote: > Colleagues, I have a need to generate a Sanskrit index for a piece > written in xeLaTeX, and am assuming at least one of you has already > written an xdy style file for the xindy index generator that would > sort the entries in Sanskrit dictionary order. I have looked for > such a file in all the usual places without success. I am aware of > Yasuhiro Okazaki's SktSortKey program and will use it if necessary, > but I thought it might be worth asking whether a sanskrit.xdy file > is out there somewhere. `Back in the day' I put together a short xindy file for CSX+. I'm attaching it on the off chance it could be useful. Kind regards, Richard -- Richard MAHONEY - Indica et Buddhica Littledene, Bay Road, OXFORD 7430, NZ Tel.: +64 3 312 1699 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org http://indica-et-buddhica.org http://camera-antipodea.indica-et-buddhica.com -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: master.xdy URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Oct 4 18:26:04 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 11 23:56:04 +0530 Subject: RORI 2007 catalogue of Bharatpur collection In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093989.23782.11397300868654630568.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 697 Lines: 23 Many thanks indeed to Christophe Vielle and Peter Wyzlic for their responses. I now have the answer I needed. Dominik On 4 October 2011 11:47, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > Does anyone happen to have easy access to the RORI MS catalogue of their > Bharatpur collection, published in 2007? I wish to know whether the > Bharatpur collection contains any MSS of the Carakasamhita, and I'm finding > it hard to get that particular catalogue volume. > > Best wishes, > Dominik > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From annamisia at YAHOO.COM Wed Oct 5 07:22:19 2011 From: annamisia at YAHOO.COM (Anna A. Slaczka) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 11 00:22:19 -0700 Subject: in search of another article! Message-ID: <161227093996.23782.663907339234681646.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 918 Lines: 18 Dear Friends and Colleagues, ? Again, I have to ask you for help. I am urgently looking for an article published in the Prof. Krishna Chandra Panigrahi Commemoration Volume, New Delhi, 1994. The book is not available in the Netherlands. The article is by K.K. Dasgupta: "Nataraja images of Bengal and Orissa - a comparative approach". I would be extremely grateful if someone with an easy access to a library housing this volume could scan the article and send it to me off-list. Unfortunately, hundreds of such commemoration volumes is being produced in India containing sometimes?very valuable?articles, but they almost never make it to a Western library... ? With all my best wishes, ? Anna. ? Dr. Anna A. Slaczka The Rijksmuseum Amsterdam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jkirk at SPRO.NET Wed Oct 5 16:47:52 2011 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (Jo) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 11 10:47:52 -0600 Subject: Dancing Shiva tympanum Message-ID: <161227094003.23782.18354576783656685458.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5385 Lines: 148 I see this is not from Khuong My-Guimet says it is from Phong Li. (There is a similar one in photo stockimages based on a holding of the DaNang museum) http://www.onasia.com/system/preview.aspx?pvp=wal0002411.48 ---this artifact is in the Guimet- if you search for this as in the DaNang museum this is the only one you get noted as a tympanum. Best wishes Joanna Kirkpatrick ------------------ Maybe this new book could help: It has just appeared noted on another list, as follows: The Cham book is listed on Amazon as a publication of the University of Hawaii Press at $223. However, the University of Hawaii Press offers it directly for only $32-sales restricted to the U.S., its dependencies, Canada, and Mexico. http://tinyurl.com/3sna3ag _The Cham of Vietnam: History, Society, and Art_ Editora: Lockhart, Bruce; Tran Ky Phuong; The Cham people once inhabited and ruled over a large stretch of what is now the central Vietnamese coast. Their Indianized civilization flourished for centuries, and they competed with the Vietnamese and Khmers for influence in mainland Southeast Asia. This book brings together a collection of essays on the Cham by specialists from the fields of history, archaeology, anthropology, art history, and linguistics. It presents a revisionist overview of Cham history and a detailed study of the various ways in which the Cham have been studied by different generations of scholars, as well as chapters on specific aspects of the Cham past. Several pieces focus on recent archaeological work in central Vietnam that positions recent discoveries within the broader framework of Cham history. The book provides a synthesis of work by scholars during the French colonial period and more recent understandings of what "Champa" represented over the centuries of its history. The information presented here is important not only for researchers studying Champa and Vietnam but also for anyone seeking to understand the broader dynamic of Southeast Asian history. From: Indo-Eurasian_research at yahoogroups.com [mailto:Indo-Eurasian_research at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anna A. Slaczka Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 2:41 AM To: Indo-Eurasian_research at yahoogroups.com Subject: [Indo-Eurasia] in search of an article and an image - PS In addition to my previous mail: The article has already been promised to me by some of the colleagues. So it is only the Khuong-my image from Da Nang that I need. Best, Anna. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __._,_.___ Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity: Visit Your Group MARKETPLACE Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now. Yahoo! Groups Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest . Unsubscribe . Terms of Use . __,_._,___ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DancingChamShivaintheMuseeGuimet.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 137551 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkirk at SPRO.NET Wed Oct 5 17:40:43 2011 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (Jo) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 11 11:40:43 -0600 Subject: Dancing Shiva tympanum--Correction Message-ID: <161227094007.23782.5681650221345545996.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 5236 Lines: 146 Correction: this item was part of an exhibit at the Guimet in 2005, as its caption states. ------------------------------- I see this is not from Khuong My-Guimet says it is from Phong Li. (There is a similar one in photo stockimages based on a holding of the DaNang museum) http://www.onasia.com/system/preview.aspx?pvp=wal0002411.48 ---this artifact is in the Guimet- if you search for this as in the DaNang museum this is the only one you get noted as a tympanum. Best wishes Joanna Kirkpatrick ------------------ Maybe this new book could help: It has just appeared noted on another list, as follows: The Cham book is listed on Amazon as a publication of the University of Hawaii Press at $223. However, the University of Hawaii Press offers it directly for only $32-sales restricted to the U.S., its dependencies, Canada, and Mexico. http://tinyurl.com/3sna3ag _The Cham of Vietnam: History, Society, and Art_ Editora: Lockhart, Bruce; Tran Ky Phuong; The Cham people once inhabited and ruled over a large stretch of what is now the central Vietnamese coast. Their Indianized civilization flourished for centuries, and they competed with the Vietnamese and Khmers for influence in mainland Southeast Asia. This book brings together a collection of essays on the Cham by specialists from the fields of history, archaeology, anthropology, art history, and linguistics. It presents a revisionist overview of Cham history and a detailed study of the various ways in which the Cham have been studied by different generations of scholars, as well as chapters on specific aspects of the Cham past. Several pieces focus on recent archaeological work in central Vietnam that positions recent discoveries within the broader framework of Cham history. The book provides a synthesis of work by scholars during the French colonial period and more recent understandings of what "Champa" represented over the centuries of its history. The information presented here is important not only for researchers studying Champa and Vietnam but also for anyone seeking to understand the broader dynamic of Southeast Asian history. From: Indo-Eurasian_research at yahoogroups.com [mailto:Indo-Eurasian_research at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anna A. Slaczka Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 2:41 AM To: Indo-Eurasian_research at yahoogroups.com Subject: [Indo-Eurasia] in search of an article and an image - PS In addition to my previous mail: The article has already been promised to me by some of the colleagues. So it is only the Khuong-my image from Da Nang that I need. Best, Anna. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __._,_.___ Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity: Visit Your Group MARKETPLACE Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now. Yahoo! Groups Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest . Unsubscribe . Terms of Use . __,_._,___ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rmanring at INDIANA.EDU Wed Oct 5 12:26:32 2011 From: rmanring at INDIANA.EDU (Manring, Rebecca) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 11 12:26:32 +0000 Subject: milk Message-ID: <161227093999.23782.9618109333078471460.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1640 Lines: 20 Dear Colleagues, A anthropologist colleague here at Indiana, who is not on this list and does not know Sanskrit, has asked me the question I paste below. My hunch is that Ayurveda materials may provide an answer for her, but I'm not aware of any difference being made in terms of the source of the milk. Knowing that some of you could probably enlighten her further than I could, I ask your help: I'm working on a section of a chapter on the history of milk consumption in India. In many of the secondary sources I'm using, "milk" is often used without any reference to its source. The assumption seems to be that when the term "milk" is used it's referring to cows' milk, but I wanted to find out if there is a linguistic difference in Sanskrit between milk - or any other dairy product such as curd or ghee - from cows and that from water buffalo (or goats or sheep for that matter). I remain intrigued by the rich descriptions of cows as providers of endless benefits (esp. supplies of milk) in conjunction with seemingly generic references to the uses of milk without regard to whether it's from cows or other dairy animals that were clearly also used. Thank you for your assistance. As I mentioned, she does not know Sanskrit, so references you might provide should be either to secondary sources, or translations, in English. Rebecca J. Manring Associate Professor India Studies and Religious Studies Indiana University-Bloomington -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Oct 5 20:36:47 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 11 16:36:47 -0400 Subject: milk In-Reply-To: <20111005232636.44069mjsbaqlsj98.aparpola@webmail.helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <161227094013.23782.4487514786034172087.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 444 Lines: 20 The modern stereotype is that cow milk makes one smart but buffalo milk makes one strong but stupid. But I can't give citations. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress 101 Independence Ave., S.W. Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI Wed Oct 5 20:26:36 2011 From: asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI (Asko Parpola) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 11 23:26:36 +0300 Subject: milk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094010.23782.12164230818852323711.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1950 Lines: 52 The following papers may be helpful: Simoons, Frederick J., 1970. The traditional limits of milking and milk use in southern Asia. Anthropos 65: 547-581. Simoons, Frederick J., 1979. Dairying, milk use, and lactose malabsorption in Eurasia: A problem in culture history. Anthropos 74: 61-80. Best wishes, Asko Parpola Quoting "Manring, Rebecca" : > Dear Colleagues, > > A anthropologist colleague here at Indiana, who is not on this list > and does not know Sanskrit, has asked me the question I paste below. > My hunch is that Ayurveda materials may provide an answer for her, > but I'm not aware of any difference being made in terms of the > source of the milk. Knowing that some of you could probably > enlighten her further than I could, I ask your help: > > > I'm working on a section of a chapter on the history of > milk consumption in India. In many of the secondary sources I'm > using, "milk" is often used without any reference to its source. > The assumption seems to be that when the term "milk" is used it's > referring to cows' milk, but I wanted to find out if there is a > linguistic difference in Sanskrit between milk - or any other dairy > product such as curd or ghee - from cows and that from water buffalo > (or goats or sheep for that matter). I remain intrigued by the > rich descriptions of cows as providers of endless benefits (esp. > supplies of milk) in conjunction with seemingly generic references > to the uses of milk without regard to whether it's from cows or > other dairy animals that were clearly also used. > > > Thank you for your assistance. As I mentioned, she does not know > Sanskrit, so references you might provide should be either to > secondary sources, or translations, in English. > > Rebecca J. Manring > Associate Professor > India Studies and Religious Studies > Indiana University-Bloomington > > From fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM Fri Oct 7 16:01:58 2011 From: fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM (Benjamin Fleming) Date: Fri, 07 Oct 11 12:01:58 -0400 Subject: History and New Technologies in the Study of Asian Manuscript Traditions Message-ID: <161227094015.23782.16659759473644806983.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1566 Lines: 79 Dear members of the list, (sorry for cross-posting) A conference of possible interest going on at the University of Pennsylvania in a couple of weeks: 4th Annual Lawrence J. Schoenberg Symposium on Manuscript Studies in the Digital Age Writing the East: History and New Technologies in the Study of Asian Manuscript Traditions October 21-22, 2011 See the link here: http://www.library.upenn.edu/exhibits/lectures/ljs_symposium4.html There is early registration and registration at the door. Here is the list of participants and their areas of specialization: Adam Gacek, McGill University, Institute of Islamic Studies David Germano, University of Virginia, The Tibetan and Himalayan Library Justin McDaniel, University of Pennsylvania, Thai Digital Monastery Yael Rice, The Philadelphia Museum of Art Peter Scharf, The Sanskrit Library Min Bahadur Shakya, Nagarjuna Institute of Exact Methods Kazuko Tanabe, The Eastern Institute Hiram Woodward, The Walters Art Museum Susan Whitfield, The British Library, The International Dunhuang Project Best, BF -- Benjamin Fleming, Visiting Scholar, Dept. of Religious Studies, University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street, 201 Claudia Cohen Hall Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A. Telephone - 215-900-5744 http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~bfleming -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From utkragh at HUM.KU.DK Fri Oct 7 19:44:07 2011 From: utkragh at HUM.KU.DK (Ulrich T. Kragh) Date: Fri, 07 Oct 11 21:44:07 +0200 Subject: jagadAzvasa Message-ID: <161227094018.23782.3731628195189272314.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 806 Lines: 15 Dear list-members, I am currently studying a ca. 10th century Buddhist Tantric text entitled Sahajasiddhipaddhati, which mentions a sage (*RSi, Tib. drang srong) named *jagadAzvasa (Tib. dbugs 'byin pa). There is no extant Sanskrit text, only a Tibetan translation, so the given Sanskrit words are reconstructions. I believe the name *jagadAzvasa is unusual in Buddhist contexts and I am likewise not familiar with an eventual Hindu background for this name. So, my question is: has anyone seen such a name for a RSi or similar in any context? With best regards, Tim Dr. Ulrich Timme Kragh Gonda Fellow, IIAS, Leiden University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pankajaindia at GMAIL.COM Fri Oct 7 22:59:51 2011 From: pankajaindia at GMAIL.COM (Pankaj Jain) Date: Fri, 07 Oct 11 23:59:51 +0100 Subject: Postion for PROFESSOR OF SOUTH ASIAN MEDIA, CULTURE & ARTS at Univ. of North Texas Message-ID: <161227094021.23782.15379084717125730524.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 3775 Lines: 60 􀀁 􀀂􀀁 PROFESSOR OF SOUTH ASIAN MEDIA, CULTURE & ARTS Position: The University of North Texas invites applications for a tenured appointment at the rank of Professor to begin Fall 2012. The successful candidate will lead a university-wide research collaborative in South Asian Media, Culture & Arts. The primary appointment may be in the Mayborn School of Journalism (http://journalism.unt.edu), which consists of the departments of News and Strategic Communications and the Frank W. Mayborn Graduate Institute of Journalism, but primary or secondary appointments are also possible in related departments depending upon the appointee?s expertise and interests. Rank and Salary: Professor. Salary is competitive, commensurate with experience and background. Responsibilities: The successful candidate will play a key role in establishing a multidisciplinary research collaborative in South Asian Media, Culture & Arts at the University of North Texas. He or she will be expected to organize and lead colleagues in various disciplines of South Asian studies, and spearhead projects that include interdisciplinary faculty. Qualifications: An earned Ph.D. in journalism, communications or related field is required, as is a record of publication related to South Asia. Candidates will have a distinguished record of publication and other accomplishments to merit appointment at a rank of full professor with tenure. The following additional accomplishments are preferred: (1) Peer-reviewed publications focused on South Asia in one or more of the following areas: Media studies, media performance, media production, media criticism, legal studies, political communication, government, entertainment studies, religion studies, culture studies, linguistics, literature, journalism, philosophy, history, art, sociology, anthropology, music, and classical or modern South Asian languages relevant to research area; (2) Institutional connections or collaborations in one or more of the following nations: India, Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Bhutan, and Myanmar; and (3) Professional experience, or a highly visible profile, in the news, advertising, marketing, or public relations industries. The University: The University of North Texas has embarked on a major multi-year university initiative to hire new faculty and make significant infrastructure changes to enhance and expand research. UNT is seeking to fill multiple faculty positions, largely at the senior level, to join with existing faculty to build new and existing cross-disciplinary research collaboratives in strategically selected areas (http://research.unt.edu/clusters). The new faculty members will have significant opportunities to 􀀁 􀀂􀀁 shape expansion and growth of the research initiatives. The University of North Texas is located 35 miles North of Dallas and Fort Worth. It is the fourth largest university in Texas with approximately 36,000 students registered in 97 bachelors, 88 masters, and 40 doctoral degree programs. Application: Applications must be submitted electronically via the UNT faculty career site at: http://facultyjobs.unt.edu. A cover letter that includes a statement of research interest, a CV, and names and contact information of at least three references are required. Questions about the position may be directed to: Nikhil Moro, Ph.D. Chair, Search Committee 940-565-2268 (voice); Nikhil.Moro at unt.edu Review: Review of applications will begin immediately, and continue until the search is closed. References will be contacted in an advanced stage of screening. Appointment could begin as early as Fall 2012. The University of North Texas is an AA/ADA/EOE committed to diversity in its educational programs. * * * From slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU Sat Oct 8 10:52:19 2011 From: slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU (Lindquist, Steven) Date: Sat, 08 Oct 11 10:52:19 +0000 Subject: working emails for BORI, Baroda? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094025.23782.7928405776497026836.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1167 Lines: 36 The most recent email for BORI, given to me by Dr. GU Thite this past summer, is: bori at dataone.in My best, Steven STEVEN LINDQUIST, PH.D. ASSISTANT PROFESSOR DIRECTOR OF ASIAN STUDIES _____________ Department of Religious Studies Southern Methodist University PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275 http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui From: Dominik Wujastyk > Reply-To: Dominik Wujastyk > Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 16:18:32 +0530 To: Indology > Subject: [INDOLOGY] working emails for BORI, Baroda? Dear all, The email address on BORI's website, bori1 at vsnl.net, doesn't work. Similarly, most parts of the website of the Oriental Institute in Baroda do not function. Nor does the email for its director, Professor Wadekar, mlwadekar at hotmail.com. Does anyone have confirmed, recent contact email details for these two august institutions? Thanks, Dominik From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sat Oct 8 10:48:32 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 08 Oct 11 16:18:32 +0530 Subject: working emails for BORI, Baroda? Message-ID: <161227094023.23782.11662818160709830965.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 615 Lines: 19 Dear all, The email address on BORI's website , bori1 at vsnl.net, doesn't work. Similarly, most parts of the website of the Oriental Institute in Baroda do not function. Nor does the email for its director, Professor Wadekar, mlwadekar at hotmail.com. Does anyone have confirmed, recent contact email details for these two august institutions? Thanks, Dominik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM Sat Oct 8 21:24:04 2011 From: mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Sat, 08 Oct 11 17:24:04 -0400 Subject: working emails for BORI, Baroda? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094028.23782.1620606905355666988.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1952 Lines: 59 The present secretary of BORI is Dr Maitreyee Deshpande. I do not have her personal email address, but I have her Facebook email: Alternately, one can contact Dr Shreenanda Bapat who is the assistant curator in BORI, on his email: BORI Contact numbers are: 020-25661363 (Secretary) 020-25656932 (Office) Dr Mukund Wadekar's recent email is: I hope that helps. Best wishes. Mrinal Kaul On 2011-10-08, at 6:52 AM, Lindquist, Steven wrote: > The most recent email for BORI, given to me by Dr. GU Thite this past summer, is: bori at dataone.in > > My best, > > Steven > > > STEVEN LINDQUIST, PH.D. > ASSISTANT PROFESSOR > DIRECTOR OF ASIAN STUDIES > _____________ > Department of Religious Studies > Southern Methodist University > PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275 > http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui > > > From: Dominik Wujastyk > > Reply-To: Dominik Wujastyk > > Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 16:18:32 +0530 > To: Indology > > Subject: [INDOLOGY] working emails for BORI, Baroda? > > Dear all, > > The email address on BORI's website, bori1 at vsnl.net, doesn't work. > > Similarly, most parts of the website of the Oriental Institute in Baroda do not function. Nor does the email for its director, Professor Wadekar, mlwadekar at hotmail.com. > > Does anyone have confirmed, recent contact email details for these two august institutions? > > Thanks, > Dominik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Oct 9 03:02:07 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 09 Oct 11 08:32:07 +0530 Subject: working emails for BORI, Baroda? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094031.23782.15977385233665970595.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 792 Lines: 27 Many thanks indeed to everyone who has helped with the query! The email address on BORI's website , > bori1 at vsnl.net, doesn't work. > Recently given by Prof. Thite: bori at dataone.in This doesn't cause email errors, at least. > Similarly, most parts of the website of the Oriental Institute in Baroda > do not function. Nor does the email > for its director, Professor Wadekar, mlwadekar at hotmail.com. > Prof. M L Wadekar: mlwadekar2008 at hotmail.com This works. Prof. Wadekar and I are in communication. Many thanks! Dominik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From malhar at IITB.AC.IN Sun Oct 9 07:01:40 2011 From: malhar at IITB.AC.IN (Malhar Arvind Kulkarni) Date: Sun, 09 Oct 11 12:31:40 +0530 Subject: working emails for BORI, Baroda? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094033.23782.8837674317179421911.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 2010 Lines: 79 The new email address of BORI is the following- bori at dataone.in I received an email from this address on 6th September 2011. with thanks. > The present secretary of BORI is Dr Maitreyee Deshpande. I do not have her > personal email address, but I have her Facebook email: > > > > Alternately, one can contact Dr Shreenanda Bapat who is the assistant > curator in BORI, on his email: > > BORI Contact numbers are: > > 020-25661363 (Secretary) > 020-25656932 (Office) > > Dr Mukund Wadekar's recent email is: > > I hope that helps. > > Best wishes. > Mrinal Kaul > > > On 2011-10-08, at 6:52 AM, Lindquist, Steven wrote: > >> The most recent email for BORI, given to me by Dr. GU Thite this past >> summer, is: bori at dataone.in >> >> My best, >> >> Steven >> >> >> STEVEN LINDQUIST, PH.D. >> ASSISTANT PROFESSOR >> DIRECTOR OF ASIAN STUDIES >> _____________ >> Department of Religious Studies >> Southern Methodist University >> PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275 >> http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui >> >> >> From: Dominik Wujastyk > >> Reply-To: Dominik Wujastyk >> > >> Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 16:18:32 +0530 >> To: Indology > >> Subject: [INDOLOGY] working emails for BORI, Baroda? >> >> Dear all, >> >> The email address on BORI's website, >> bori1 at vsnl.net, doesn't work. >> >> Similarly, most parts of the website of the Oriental Institute in Baroda >> do not function. Nor does the >> email for its director, Professor Wadekar, >> mlwadekar at hotmail.com. >> >> Does anyone have confirmed, recent contact email details for these two >> august institutions? >> >> Thanks, >> Dominik > > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Oct 9 09:29:47 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 09 Oct 11 14:59:47 +0530 Subject: working emails for BORI, Baroda? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227094036.23782.8574387123625915578.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1460 Lines: 47 As an experiment in using our FAQ, I summarized the recent email/website exchange here: - http://faq.indology.info/wiki/Contact_details_for_libraries_and_institutions Feel free to add to this FAQ page, if you think it is worthwhile, or if you have details that are not on the DSAL pages. The DSAL pages may also be edited anonymously, so there's an argument for making that *the* place for maintaining this kind of information. I leave this open for discussion. (Also as an experiment, I updated the DSAL pages to match the INDOLOGY faq.) Dominik On 9 October 2011 08:32, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Many thanks indeed to everyone who has helped with the query! > > The email address on BORI's website , >> bori1 at vsnl.net, doesn't work. >> > > Recently given by Prof. Thite: bori at dataone.in > This doesn't cause email errors, at least. > > >> Similarly, most parts of the website of the Oriental Institute in Baroda >> do not function. Nor does the >> email for its director, Professor Wadekar, mlwadekar at hotmail.com. >> > > Prof. M L Wadekar: mlwadekar2008 at hotmail.com > > This works. Prof. Wadekar and I are in communication. > > Many thanks! > > Dominik > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palaniappa at AOL.COM Sun Oct 9 21:11:58 2011 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sun, 09 Oct 11 16:11:58 -0500 Subject: tantuv=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81ya?= as tailor Message-ID: <161227094044.23782.13446367870613082192.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 697 Lines: 15 According to K. V. Subrahmanya Aiyar (Travancore Archaeological Series vol. 4, p.109), in the Sanskrit work B?lar?ma Bh?ratam, the author B?lar?mavarman Kula?ekhara-Perum?? uses the word 'tantuv?ya' in the sense of 'tailor'. (See attachment). Has the word 'tantuv?ya' been used in the meaning of 'tailor' anywhere else in Sanskrit? A related question is: what is the etymology of Skt. tunnav?ya? Thanks in advance. Regards, Palaniappan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: tantuvaya.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 637382 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Mon Oct 10 11:55:11 2011 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Mon, 10 Oct 11 06:55:11 -0500 Subject: tantuv=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81ya?= as tailor In-Reply-To: <844884A0-219B-48F9-898B-5C711DE95F8B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227094054.23782.16659156213461335866.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 1205 Lines: 28 Dominic is absolutely right. See tunnav?ya also at Artha??stra 4.1.8, which clearly means weaver; and tunnav?ya, compared to wahermen/dyers, at 4.1.25. Patrick On Oct 9, 2011, at 11:24 PM, Dominic Goodall wrote: > Perhaps tantuv?ya here in the English text is simply a mistake? The first verse quoted in the footnote uses rather the expression tunnav?ya. > > Both words seem to be common and old, but while one expects tunnav?ya to refer to a ?tailor? (see, e.g., Manusm?ti 2.214 and commentaries), one expects tantuv?ya to refer to a weaver (see, e.g., Manusm?ti 8.397 and commentaries). > > Dominic Goodall > ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient > > On 10-Oct-2011, at 2:41 AM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: > >> According to K. V. Subrahmanya Aiyar (Travancore Archaeological Series vol. 4, p.109), in the Sanskrit work B?lar?ma Bh?ratam, the author B?lar?mavarman Kula?ekhara-Perum?? uses the word 'tantuv?ya' in the sense of 'tailor'. (See attachment). Has the word 'tantuv?ya' been used in the meaning of 'tailor' anywhere else in Sanskrit? >> >> A related question is: what is the etymology of Skt. tunnav?ya? >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> Regards, >> Palaniappan >> From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Mon Oct 10 15:34:43 2011 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Mon, 10 Oct 11 08:34:43 -0700 Subject: Sad news about Greg Possehl, with his bibliography In-Reply-To: <20111010155801.64624ru01e8qjl5l.aparpola@webmail.helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <161227094066.23782.6827344918300264444.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 19035 Lines: 391 Truly sad. When I was teaching at Penn, Greg was one of the strong supporters of the Tamil program. Regards, Rajam On Oct 10, 2011, at 5:58 AM, Asko Parpola wrote: > From: "Sinopoli, Carla" Date: October 9, 2011 > 11:56: 13 AM CDT Subject: Sad news: Greg Possehl. Dear all, You may > have already heard this news, but I just learned that Greg passed > away last night -- from a heart attack and/or stroke. A sad loss > for our South Asian community, for Greg?s many friends, and for all > of us he has mentored and supported over the years. Regards, Carla > > I HAVE RECEIVED THIS SAD NEWS WHILE IN OMAN, WORKING TO ASSIST THE > MINISTRY OF HERITAGE AND CULTURE TO DEVELOP AND EXPAND THE > ARCHAEOLOGY IN THE SULTANATE.I HAD BROUGHT GREG HERE IN 2004 IN > RELATION TO THE MAGAN BOAT PROJECT, AND WE DECIDED HE SHOULD > ESTABLISH A PROJECT ON THIS SIDE OF THE ARABIAN SEA AS WELL: A NEW > ADVENTURE TO SHARE, ALONG WITH SERGE CLEUZIOU. GIVEN HIS HIGHEST > CREDENTIALS THE MINISTRY OFFERED HIM TO EXPLORE BAT, THE MOST > IMPORTANT SITE IN THE HEARTLAND OF OMAN, LISTED IN THE UNESCO > WORLD HERITAGE....... WHAT TO DO NOW. I HOPE CHRIS, CHARLOTTE AND > OTHERS WILL CONTINUE, WHILE I KEEP ON TRACKING ON A LONESOME > PATH..... SOMETIME I WISH I BELIEVE IN SOMETHING BEYOND DEATH, BUT > I CAN TRUST ONLY THE MEMORY OF OTHER HUMAN BEINGS. GREG WILL LIVE > THERE, WITH MANY OTHER GOOD MEN AND WOMEN. MAURIZIO TOSI > > -------------------------- > > After the above sad news reached me this morning, I have been > working on the following provisional bibliography of my respected > colleague and friend, offered here in appreciation of his lifework > devoted to the study of the Indus Civilization. I am sending this > to the INDOLOGY and RISA -lists and to colleagues who may not be > receiving these lists. > > Asko Parpola > > GREGORY L. POSSEHL (23? July 1941 - 8 or 9 Oct 2011) was Professor > emeritus of Archaeology at the Department of Anthropology, > University of Pennsylvania, and Curator of the Asian Section, > University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1967. The Mohenjo-daro floods: A reply. > American Anthropologist 69: 32-40. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1974. Variation and change in the Indus > Civilization: A study of prehistoric Gujarat with special reference > to the post-urban Harappan. Unpublished Ph.D. dissertation, The > University of Chicago. x, 302 pp., ill. [Revised version published > in 1980 as "Indus Civilization in Saurashtra".] > > Dhavalikar, M. K., and Gregory L. Possehl, 1974. Subsistence > pattern of an early farming community of western India. Puratattva > (Bulletin of the Indian Archaeological Society) 7: 39-46. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1975. The chronology of gabarbands and palas > in western South Asia. Expedition 17 (2): 33-37. > > Kennedy, Kenneth A.R., and Gregory L. Possehl (eds.), 1976. > Ecological backgrounds of South Asian prehistory. Symposium > convened at the seventy-second annual meeting of the American > Anthropological Association, December 2, 1973, New Orleans. (South > Asia Occasional Papers and Theses, 4.) Ithaca NY: South Asia > Program, Cornell University. 28 cm, vi, 236 pp., ill., maps. Pb > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1976. Lothal: A gateway settlement of the > Harappan Civilization. Pp. 198-131 in: Kennedy, Kenneth A. R., and > Gregory L. Possehl (eds.), Ecological backgrounds of South Asian > prehistory. (South Asia Occasional Papers and Theses, 4.) Ithaca: > South Asia Program, Cornell University. Reprinted, pp. 212-218 in: > Possehl, Gregory L. (ed.) 1979. Ancient cities of the Indus. New > Delhi. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1977. The end of a state and continuity of a > tradition: A discussion of the Late Harappan. Pp. 234-254 in: Fox, > Richard G. (ed.), Realm and region in traditional India. New Delhi: > Vikas Publishing House Pvt. Ltd. > > Possehl, Gregory L. (ed.) 1979. ANCIENT CITIES OF THE INDUS. Durham > NC: Carolina Academic Press & New Delhi: Vikas Publishing House > Pvt. Ltd. 27 cm, xv, 422 pp., 8 pl., ill. Hb ISBN 0890890935 & > 0-7069-0781-7. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1979. Introduction. Pp. vii-xv in: Possehl, > Gregory L. (ed.), Ancient cities of the Indus. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1979. Radiocarbon dates for the Indus > Civilization and related sites. Pp. 358-360 in: Possehl, Gregory L. > (ed.), Ancient cities of the Indus. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1979. An extensive bibliography of the Indus > Civilization including references cited in the text. Pp. 361-422 > in: Possehl, Gregory L., 1979. (Ed.) Ancient cities of the Indus. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1979. Pastoral nomadism in the Indus > Civilization: An hypothesis. Pp. 537-551 in: Taddei, Maurizio > (ed.), South Asian Archaeology 1977, vol. I. (Istituto > Universitario Orientale, Seminario di Studi Asiatici, Series minor, > 6: I.) Naples: Istituto Universitario Orientale, Seminario di Studi > Asiatici. > > Possehl, Gregory L., and Kenneth A. R. Kennedy, 1979. Hunter- > gatherer/agriculturalist exchange in prehistory: An Indian example. > Current Anthropology 20 (3): 592-593. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1980. INDUS CIVILIZATION IN SAURASHTRA. New > Delhi: Published on behalf of Indian Archaeological Society by B.R. > Publishing Corporation. 29 cm, xvi, 264 pp., ill., maps. Hb > [Revised version of the author's Ph.D. dissertation, The University > of Chicago, 1974.] > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1981. Cambay bead-making: An ancient craft in > modern India. Expedition 23 (4): 39-46. > > Possehl, Gregory L. (ed.) 1982. HARAPPAN CIVILIZATION: A > CONTEMPORARY PERSPECTIVE. New Delhi: Oxford & IBH Publishing Co. > Pvt. Ltd. and American Institute of Indian Studies; Warminster: > Aris & Phillips in cooperation with American Institute of Indian > Studies. 28 cm xiii, 440 pp., 93 pl., maps. Hb > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1982. The Harappan Civilization: A > contemporary perspective. Pp. 15-28 in: Possehl, Gregory L. (ed.), > Harappan Civilization: A contemporary perspective. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1982. Discovering ancient India's earliest > cities: The first phase of research. Pp. 405-413 in: Possehl, > Gregory L. (ed.), Harappan Civilization: A contemporary perspective. > > Possehl. Gregory L., 1984. Archaeological terminology and the > Harappan Civilization. Pp. 27-36 in: Lal, B.B., and S.P. Gupta > (eds.), Frontiers of the Indus Civilization: Sir Mortimer Wheeler > Commemoration Volume. New Delhi: Indian Archaeological Society. > > Kennedy, Kenneth A. R., and Gregory L. Possehl (eds.) 1984. STUDIES > IN THE ARCHAEOLOGY AND PALAEOANTHROPOLOGY OF SOUTH ASIA. New > Delhi: Oxford & IBH Publishing Co. Pvt. Ltd. and American > Institute of Indian Studies. 25 cm, viii, 144 pp., ill., maps. > > Lyons, Elizabeth, and Heather Peters, 1985. Buddhism: History and > diversity of a great tradition. With contributions by Chang Ch'eng- > mei & Gregory L. Possehl. Philadelphia: University Museum, > University of Pennsylvania. 28 cm, 64 pp., ill., map. ISBN 0934718768. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1986. KULLI: AN EXPLORATION OF AN ANCIENT > CIVILIZATION IN SOUTH ASIA. (Centers of Civilization, 1.) Durham, > NC: Carolina Academic Press. 29 cm, viii, 168 pp., ill. Hb ISBN > 0890891737. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1986. African millets in South Asian > prehistory. Pp. 237-256 in: Jerome Jacobson (ed.), Studies in the > archaeology of India and Pakistan. New Delhi: Oxford & IBH > Publishing Co. Pvt. Ltd. and American Institute of Indian Studies. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1987-1988. Indian Archaeology, A Review: Guide > to excavated sites 1953-54 through 1983-84. Puratattva (Bulletin of > the Indian Archaeological Society) 18: 113-172. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1989. RADIOCARBON DATES FOR SOUTH ASIAN > ARCHAEOLOGY. (Occasional publication of the Asian Section.) > Philadelphia: University Museum, University of Pennsylvania. 28 cm. > 60 pp. > > Possehl, Gregory L., and M. H. Raval, 1989. HARAPPAN CIVILIZATION > AND ROJDI. With contributions from Y. M. Chitalwala et al. Leiden > and New York: E. J. Brill; New Delhi: Oxford & IBH Publishing Co. > Pvt. Ltd. and American Institute of Indian Studies. 29 cm, xv, 197 > pp., 46 pl., 80 ill., 5 maps. ISBN 9004091572 & 81-204-0404-1. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1990. Revolution in the urban revolution: The > emergence of Indus urbanization. Annual Review of Anthropology 19: > 261-282. > > Possehl. Gregory L., 1990. An archaeological adventurer in > Afghanistan: Charles Masson. South Asian Studies 6: 111-124. > > Possehl, Gregory L., and Charles Frank Herman, 1990. The Sorath > Harappan: A new regional manifestation of the Indus urban phase. > Pp. 295-319 in: Taddei, Maurizio, with P. Callieri (ed.), South > Asian Archaeology 1987, vol. I. (Serie Orientale Roma 66: I.) > Roma: Istituto per il Medio ed Estremo Oriente. > > Rissman, Paul C., and Y. M. Chitalwala, 1990. Harappan Civilization > and Oriyo Timbo. With contributions from Gregory L. Possehl et al. > New Delhi: Oxford & IBH Publishing Co. Pvt. Ltd. and American > Institute of Indian Studies. 25 cm, xi, 155 pp., ill. ISBN > 81-204-0484-X. > > Possehl, Gregory L., and Kenneth A. R. Kennedy, 1990. Hasmukh > Dhirajlal Sankalia (1908-1989). American Anthropologist 92: 1006-1010. > > Possehl, Gregory L., and M.H. Raval, 1991. A report on the > excavations at Babar Kot: 1990-91. S.l. 16 p. Submitted to the ASI. > > Possehl, Gregory L., and Paul C. Rissman, 1992. The chronology of > prehistoric India: From earliest times to the Iron Age. Pp. 465-490 > in vol. I and pp. 447-474 (Fig. 1-13, tables 1-14 and References) > in vol. II of: Ehrich, Robert W. (ed.), Chronologies in Old World > archaeology, 3rd ed. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1992. The Harappan cultural mosaic: Ecology > revisited. Pp. 237-244 in vol. I of: Jarrige, Catherine (ed.), > South Asian Archaeology 1989. (Monographs in World Archaeology, > 14.) Madison WI: Prehistory Press. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1992. The Harappan Civilization in Gujarat: > The Sorath and Sindhi Harappans. The Eastern Anthropologist 45 > (1-2): 117-154. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1992. A short history of archaeological > discovery at Harappa. In: Meadow 1992a: 5-11. > > Possehl, Gregory L. (ed.) 1992. SOUTH ASIAN ARCHAEOLOGY STUDIES. > New Delhi: Oxford & IBH Publishing Co. Pvt. Ltd. and American > Institute of Indian Studies; New York: International Science > Publisher (1993). 24 cm, x, 266 pp., ill., map. Hb ISBN > 81-204-0734-2 & 1881570177. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1992. Walter Ashlin Fairservis, Jr. Pp. 1-12 > in: Possehl, Gregory L. (ed.), South Asian archaeology studies. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1992. Toymakers and trade: A notice of early > twentieth century commerce between Philadelphia and India. Pp. > 261-266 in: Possehl, Gregory L. (ed.), South Asian archaeology > studies. > > Possehl, Gregory L. (ed.) 1993. HARAPPAN CIVILIZATION: A RECENT > PERSPECTIVE. 2nd revised ed. New Delhi: Oxford & IBH Publishing Co. > Pvt. Ltd. an American Institute of Indian Studies. 28 cm, xv, 595 > pp., 120 pl., maps, index. Hb ISBN 81-204-0779-2. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1993. The date of Indus urbanization: A > proposed chronology for the Pre-Urban and Urban Harappan phases. > Pp. 231-249 in: Gail, Adalbert J., and G. R. Mevissen (eds.), South > Asian Archaeology 1991. Stuttgart: Franz Steiner Verlag. > > Possehl, Gregory L., and Maurizio Tosi (eds.) 1993. HARAPPAN > STUDIES, Vol. 1. New Delhi: Oxford & IBH Publishing Co. Pvt. Ltd. > 71 pp. Pb INR 395. ISBN 81-204-0819-5. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1994. The Indus Civilisation. Man and > Environment 19 (1-2): 103-113. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1994. Of men. Pp. 179-186 in: Kenoyer, > Jonathan Mark (ed.), From Sumer to Meluhha: Contributions to the > archaeology of South and West Asia in memory of George F. Dales, > Jr. (Wisconsin Archaeological Reports, 3.) Madison, WI: Department > of Anthropology, University of Wisconsin at Madison. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1994. RADIOMETRIC DATES FOR SOUTH ASIAN > ARCHAEOLOGY. (An occasional publication of the Asia Section.) > Philadelphia: The University of Pennsylvania Museum. 122 pp. > > Possehl, Gregory L., and Dinker P. Mehta, 1994. Excavations at > Rojdi, 1992-93. Pp. 603-614 in: Parpola, Asko, and Petteri > Koskikallio (eds.), South Asian Archaeology 1993, vol. II. (Annales > Academiae Scientiarum Fennicae B 271: II.) Helsinki: Suomalainen > Tiedeakatemia. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1996. Meluhha. Pp. 133-208 in: Reade, Julian > (ed.), The Indian Ocean in antiquity. London: Kegan Paul > International in association with the British Museum. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1996. Climate and the eclipse of the ancient > cities of the Indus. Pp. 193-244 in: Dalfes, H. N?zhet, George > Kukla and Harvey Weiss (eds.), Third millennium BC climate change > and Old World collapse. (NATO ASI, Series 1: Global Environment > Change, vol. 49.) Berlin & New York: Springer. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1996. INDUS AGE: THE WRITING SYSTEM. > Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press; New Delhi: Oxford > IBH Publishing Co. Pvt. Ltd. 29 cm, xiv, 244 pp., 16 pl. Hb ISBN > 0-8122-3345-X & 81-204-1083-1. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1997. The transformation of the Indus > Civilization. Journal of World Prehistory 11 (4): 425-472. > Reprinted in Man and Environment 24 (2), 1999: 1-33. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1997. The date of the Surkotada cemetery: A > reassessment in light of recent archaeological work in Gujarat. Pp. > 81-87 in: Joshi, Jagat Pati (ed.), Facets of Indian Civilization: > Recent perspectives. Essays in honour of Professor B. B. Lal. New > Delhi: Aryan Books International. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1997. Seafaring merchants of Meluhha. Pp. > 87-100 in: Allchin, Bridget (ed.), South Asian Archaeology 1995. > Cambridge: Ancient India and Iran Trust; New Delhi: Oxford & IBH > Publishing Co. Pvt. Ltd. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1997-1998. An Harappan outpost on the Amu > Darya: Shortughai, Why was it there? Indologica Taurinensia 23-24: > 57-70, 1 fig. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1998. Sociocultural complexity without the > state: The Indus Civilization. Pp. 261-291 in: Feinman, Gary M., > and Joyce Marcus (eds.), The archaic states. Santa Fe, NM: School > of American Research. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1998. Did the Sarasvati ever flow to the sea? > Pp. 339-354 in: Philips, C. S., D. T. Potts and S. Searight (eds.), > Arabia and its neighbours: Essays on prehistorical and historical > developments presented in honour of Beatric de Cardi. Brussels: > Brepols. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1998. Introduction of African millets to the > Indian subcontinent. Pp. 107-121 in: Pendergast, H. D. V., N. L., > Etkin, D. R. Harris and P. J. Houghton (eds.), Plants for food and > medicine. Kew: The Royal Botanic Gardens. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 1999. INDUS AGE: THE BEGINNINGS. Philadelphia: > University of Pennsylvania Press; New Delhi: Oxford & IBH > Publishing Co. Pvt. Ltd. 29 cm, xxxvi, 1063 pp., 580 b/w ill. Hb > ISBN 0-8122-3417-0. > Reviewed: Asko Parpola, The Times Higher Education Supplement, 3 > Dec 1999, p. 24. > > Possehl, Gregory L., and Praveena Gullapalli, 1999. The Early Iron > Age in South Asia. Pp. 153-175 in: Pigott, Vincent C. (ed.), The > archaeometallurgy of the Asian Old World. (MASCA Research Papers > in Science and Archaeology, University Museum Monograph, volume > 16.) Philadelphia: The University Museum, University of Pennsylvania. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 2000. Harappan beginnings. Pp. 99-112 in: > Lamberg-Karlovsky, Martha (ed.), The breakout: The origins of > civilization. (Peabody Museum Monographs, 9.) Cambridge, MA: > Peabody Museum, Harvard University. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 2000-2001. The Early Harapopan phase. Bulletin > of the Deccan College Post-Graduate and Research Institute 60-61: > 227-241, 10 figs. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 2000-2001. The Mature Harapopan phase. > Bulletin of the Deccan College Post-Graduate and Research Institute > 60-61: 243-251, 2 figs. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 2002. THE INDUS CIVILIZATION: A CONTEMPORARY > PERSPECTIVE. Walnut Creek, CA: AltaMira Press. 29 cm, xi, 276 pp., > ill., maps. Pb ISBN 0-7591-0172-8. Hb ISBN 0-7591-0171-X. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 2002. Fifty years of Harappan archaeology: The > study of the Indus Civilization since Indian independence. Pp. 1-46 > in: Settar, S., and Ravi Korisettar (eds.), Protohistory: > Archaeology of the Harappan Civilization. (Indian archaeology in > retrospect, vol. II.) New Delhi: Indian Council of Historical > Research & Manohar. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 2002. Archaeology of the Harappan > Civilization: An annotated list of excavations and surveys. Pp. > 421-482 in: Settar, S., and Ravi Korisettar (eds.) Protohistory: > Archaeology of the Harappan Civilization. (Indian archaeology in > retrospect, vol. II.) New Delhi: Indian Council of Historical > Research & Manohar. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 2002. Indus-Mesopotamian trade: The record in > the Indus. Iranica Antiqua 37: 322-340. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 2003. The Indus Civilization: An introduction > to environment, subsistence, and cultural history. Pp. 1-20 in: > Weber, Steven A., and William R. Belcher (eds.), Indus > ethnobiology: New perspectives from the field. Lanham MD: Lexington > Books. > > Shinde, V., G. L. Possehl and M. Ameri, 2005. Excavations at Gilund > 2001-2003: The seal impressions and other finds. Pp. 159-169 in: > Franke-Vogt, Ute, & Hans-Joachim Weisshaar (eds.), South Asian > Archaeology 2003. (Forschungen zur Arch?ologie aussereurop?ischer > Kulturen, 1.) Aachen: Linden Soft Verlag e. K. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 2007. The Indus Civilization. Chapter 9 in: > Hinnells, John R. (ed.), Handbook of ancient religions. Cambridge: > Cambridge University Press. > > Joshi, Jagat Pati, 2008. Harappan architecture and civil > engineering. Foreword by Gregory L. Possehl. (Infinity Foundation > series.) New Delhi: Rupa & Co., in association with Infinity > Foundation. ISBN 978-81-291-1183-8. > > Possehl, Gregory L., 2010. Review of: Parpola, Asko, B. M. Pande > and Petteri Koskikallio (eds.), 2010. Corpus of Indus Seals and > Inscriptions, Volume 3: New material, untraced objects, and > collections outside India and Pakistan. Part 1: Mohenjo-daro and > Harappa, in collaboration with Richard H. Meadow and J. Mark > Kenoyer. (Annales Academiae Scientiarum Fennicae, Humaniora 359; > Memoirs of the Archaeological Survey of India, No. 96.) Helsinki: > Suomalainen Tiedeakatemia. Journal of the American Oriental Society > 130 (2). From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM Mon Oct 10 04:24:57 2011 From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall) Date: Mon, 10 Oct 11 09:54:57 +0530 Subject: tantuv=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81ya?= as tailor In-Reply-To: <3B09EAA7-2EA4-4B3A-82CC-EAD2786A2421@aol.com> Message-ID: <161227094051.23782.12265741534414756503.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Status: O Content-Length: 962 Lines: 21 Perhaps tantuv?ya here in the English text is simply a mistake? The first verse quoted in the footnote uses rather the expression tunnav?ya. Both words seem to be common and old, but while one expects tunnav?ya to refer to a ?tailor? (see, e.g., Manusm?ti 2.214 and commentaries), one expects tantuv?ya to refer to a weaver (see, e.g., Manusm?ti 8.397 and commentaries). Dominic Goodall ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient On 10-Oct-2011, at 2:41 AM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: > According to K. V. Subrahmanya Aiyar (Travancore Archaeological Series vol. 4, p.109), in the Sanskrit work B?lar?ma Bh?ratam, the author B?lar?mavarman Kula?ekhara-Perum?? uses the word 'tantuv?ya' in the sense of 'tailor'. (See attachment). Has the word 'tantuv?ya' been used in the meaning of 'tailor' anywhere else in Sanskrit? > > A related question is: what is the etymology of Skt. tunnav?ya? > > Thanks in advance. > > Regards, > Palaniappan > From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Mon Oct 10 16:14:11 2011 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel) Date: Mon, 10 Oct 11 12:14:11 -0400 Subject: Sad news about Greg Possehl In-Reply-To: <20111010164305.1678