00:28:02 Morane Gruenpeter: Collaborative notes: https://tinyurl.com/y6b24eyz 00:35:47 Neil Chue Hong (he/his): Collaborative notes (including agenda): https://tinyurl.com/y6b24eyz 00:44:18 Neil Chue Hong (he/his): If people are interested in the NISO Reproducibility Badging work, feel free to ask me questions in the Q&A later or offline. 00:48:13 Christine Rogers, Ms.: Ability 00:49:11 Fotis Psomopoulos: www.menti.com 00:49:14 Fotis Psomopoulos: 3210858 01:00:06 Gonzalez Beltran, Alejandra (STFC,RAL,SC): There are overlaps between the categories, so it is not surprising that some of those statements fit into one more of the F,A,I,R categories 01:07:04 Joao Moreira (U.Twente): Cambridge dictionary: Data = information, especially facts or numbers, collected to be examined and considered and used to help decision-making, or information in an electronic form that can be stored and used by a computer 01:12:23 Daniel Garijo: I don't agree with software changing more frequently than data. Many datasets are refreshed on an hourly basis :) 01:14:10 Gonzalez Beltran, Alejandra (STFC,RAL,SC): I don’t agree with software changing more often than data either 01:16:58 Joao Moreira (U.Twente): Is data always a digital object? 01:20:34 Carlos Martinez-Ortiz: Hi Joao -- I think for the FAIR discussion, we are interested on data as a digital object, Although if you have a counter example, I would be interested to hear. 01:22:27 Daniel Garijo: Is software with closed license reusable? Maybe it's up for discussion 01:23:33 Daniel Garijo: Also another question/suggestion: I think FAIR software should have an open license for the metadata 01:23:34 Renato Alves: I'm with Daniel. There will be limitations to the reusability in a closed model. 01:23:37 Gonzalez Beltran, Alejandra (STFC,RAL,SC): It is reusable under the license terms 01:23:46 Gonzalez Beltran, Alejandra (STFC,RAL,SC): And the license may be closed 01:23:49 LJ Garcia: It depends also how you define reuse. 01:24:01 Daniel Garijo: hence the discussion :) 01:24:37 Joao Moreira (U.Twente): Hi Carlos, so I think it's better to be precise on that: digital data 01:24:58 Gonzalez Beltran, Alejandra (STFC,RAL,SC): Is the intention to compile these notes from menti? 01:25:03 Morane Gruenpeter: it's easier to be FAIR if the source code is accesible 01:25:12 Daniel Garijo: what do people thing about metadata license? Should it be open for FAIR software? 01:25:26 Daniel Garijo: otherwise I don't know how to make the F happen 01:25:32 Joao Moreira (U.Twente): obs: we should have clear semantics to avoid inconsistencies! :) 01:25:44 Renato Alves: Hi Joao, I would interpret the definition here under the FAIR principles. FAIR data should be a digital object. Not all data is a digital object, but won't be FAIR either. 01:25:50 Morane Gruenpeter: @Alejandra : it will be complied and shared as pdf 01:26:28 Gonzalez Beltran, Alejandra (STFC,RAL,SC): Thanks, Morane 01:28:27 Renato Alves: No for data but yes for software 01:28:41 Renato Alves: challenging 01:28:56 Daniel Garijo: need to go to a meeting; will be back in an hour hopefully! 01:29:10 Renato Alves: See you soon Daniel 01:29:13 LJ Garcia: FAIR data does not imply data quality, does it? 01:29:26 Morane Gruenpeter: no it doesn't 01:29:29 Gonzalez Beltran, Alejandra (STFC,RAL,SC): No, it doesn’t… 01:29:53 Gonzalez Beltran, Alejandra (STFC,RAL,SC): But the question is why apply exactly the same FAIR principles if for software there could be some different principles 01:30:02 Morane Gruenpeter: but software reusability is different than data reusability 01:32:20 Renato Alves: @Moreane would like to understand a bit more on why that distinction 01:33:44 Morane Gruenpeter: because with data, you can just read the data and do a new article with that. with software reusability has two factets: reusing the tool (executable) or reusing the code in a new software as a dependency 01:33:55 Joao Moreira (U.Twente): Hi Renato, still, we should make the context quite precise (and explicit) to avoid ambiguities, that's why it's necessary to explicit the digital characteristic. 01:36:30 Maria Luiza Campos: thanks! 01:36:38 Neil Chue Hong (he/his): Reconvene at 16 minutes past the hour 01:48:22 Mary C-K: Yes! 01:49:52 Morane Gruenpeter: Collaborative notes: https://tinyurl.com/y6b24eyz 01:57:02 Joao Moreira (U.Twente): One comment about FAIR data be necessarily digital: can a non-digital data, like a document (paper) in a notary's office, address the 13 FAIR principles? unique and persistent identifier (F1): yes. be described by rich (digital) metadata (F2): yes. identifier explicitly and clearly included in the metadata (F3): yes. having your metadata indexed in a search engine (F4): yes. 01:57:47 Neil Chue Hong (he/his): @Joao: there has been some discussion at the AGU about FAIR for physical samples 01:58:28 Neil Chue Hong (he/his): In this case, the sample itself is generally a physical core dug from the ground, but it has an associated digital metadata record. 01:59:47 Gonzalez Beltran, Alejandra (STFC,RAL,SC): Thanks, Dan - I am particularly interested in how FAIR data impacts the interoperability of software when considering inputs/outputs of software 01:59:59 Gonzalez Beltran, Alejandra (STFC,RAL,SC): And how FAIR vocabularies could help there 02:08:18 Joao Moreira (U.Twente): I have to leave, very nice presentations and discussions. Congrats for the work! 02:10:40 Neil Chue Hong (he/his): We need more input and feedback - take the survey: https://forms.gle/XLSjbybtjKZuxom39 02:15:35 Maria Luiza Campos: I´ll have to go to another meeting, but thank you all for this webinar! I hope to contribute in the future. 02:19:52 Neil Chue Hong (he/his): And US and EU jurisdictions are slightly different with respect to what is a “creative work” 02:20:25 LJ Garcia: So predicted data would not be seen as a fact, would it? 02:22:09 Gonzalez Beltran, Alejandra (STFC,RAL,SC): 10 minutes? 02:22:20 Neil Chue Hong (he/his): We’re back at 2 minutes past the hour. 02:22:20 Gonzalez Beltran, Alejandra (STFC,RAL,SC): tx 02:22:45 Christine Rogers, Ms.: (I’ll be back a few minutes after the hour, have to pop into a meeting) 02:24:02 Maurits Kok: I have to leave, thanks for the presentations. Quite informative! 02:29:31 LJ Garcia: Renato, how did you do that? Please share 02:29:41 LJ Garcia: Thanks! 02:30:16 Niket Agrawal: I have to leave, thanks for the discussions and presentations! 02:31:45 Ronny Gey: I can listen only anyway, so for me it doesn't matter which option you choose.... 02:32:07 Renato Alves: This is what I was using: https://vclock.com/timer/ 02:32:27 Fotis Psomopoulos: Cool, thanks Renato! :) 02:33:18 Carlos Martinez-Ortiz: Thanks Renato! 02:34:04 Renato Alves: Yes for Breakout, No for main room discussion 02:34:24 Gonzalez Beltran, Alejandra (STFC,RAL,SC): I prefer all the subjects in one group 02:35:15 Tamora James: Same - one group 02:36:29 LJ Garcia: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hSEW_7eCxReyxBQaEBgzRq4DMJx6ybHROGDJ6XFFO34/edit 02:48:51 Renato Alves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_Package_Data_Exchange 02:49:01 Carlos Martinez-Ortiz: [Reusability]: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wgY7lRDicNkElKvJ200o6p4HIh6YW-WguJoY_25Ikf0/edit?usp=sharing 02:54:27 Renato Alves: A better wheel of course 02:55:48 Neil Chue Hong (he/his): That’s a good question - many people would just use the library, rather than inspecting the code. 02:56:05 Neil Chue Hong (he/his): They want to be able to, but they don’t actually, inspect the code. 02:57:16 LJ Garcia: Community and collaboration, good point Morane 02:57:24 Renato Alves: Also cases when the documentation is out of sync with the code. Checking the code is inevitable. 02:58:56 Renato Alves: I find trust also a challenging term to define 02:59:38 Daniel Garijo: indeed 03:01:15 Daniel Garijo: can you share the link to the doc? 03:01:17 Fotis Psomopoulos: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MOcVvbEmMTVfAb6PZpgp9XnoVV0eYKBBS2FnDk7pz7o/edit 03:01:19 Neil Chue Hong (he/his): Link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MOcVvbEmMTVfAb6PZpgp9XnoVV0eYKBBS2FnDk7pz7o/edit# 03:01:19 Daniel Garijo: thx 03:13:54 Daniel Garijo: Alejandra: Don't throw software away :D 03:14:02 Gonzalez Beltran, Alejandra (STFC,RAL,SC): :-) 03:14:40 Renato Alves: https://tinyurl.com/y6b24eyz 03:14:53 Daniel Garijo: but I understand your point. Many people won't put the effort in making FAIR a scrip that is used to generate a table for a particular paper, with no further use 03:16:13 Gonzalez Beltran, Alejandra (STFC,RAL,SC): I was trying to make an analogy with data curation - it is important and worth doing when it affects sharing and reproducibility, but not always worth the effort if it is quicker to regenerate the data 03:17:25 Neil Chue Hong (he/his): I like the idea of making software minimally FAIR by using the right infrastructure. E.g. by “abandoning” it with a license in you institutional repository might make it FAIR enough. 03:18:03 Gonzalez Beltran, Alejandra (STFC,RAL,SC): It’s late :-) 03:25:33 Mary C-K: Thank you very much! 03:27:35 Gonzalez Beltran, Alejandra (STFC,RAL,SC): https://github.com/force11/FAIR4RS 03:27:43 Gonzalez Beltran, Alejandra (STFC,RAL,SC): Is that the one? 03:28:02 Fotis Psomopoulos: https://gitter.im/FAIR4RS 03:28:13 Fotis Psomopoulos: This is the link to all four subgroup rooms 03:28:20 Gonzalez Beltran, Alejandra (STFC,RAL,SC): I found a link to getter: https://github.com/force11/FAIR4RS/blob/master/subgroups/subgroup2.md 03:28:24 Gonzalez Beltran, Alejandra (STFC,RAL,SC): *gitter 03:30:18 Gonzalez Beltran, Alejandra (STFC,RAL,SC): Thank you, Fotis 03:30:33 Tamora James: Thank you! 03:30:43 Neil Chue Hong (he/his): Thank you everyone - great input 03:31:42 Jean-Noël Grad: Thanks!