but never talk about exercise  I know there's some debate on that point. But I think it's a pretty pointless discussion for people in the obese range. Even starting out in the healthy weight range it took a pretty significant amount of time for me to get to a point where I had to start ramping up my calories to compensate. I'm skeptical that most obese people, with their wreck of a body, would be able to do that to a point where it'd exceed the mess of a diet which got them to that state.