Fat Logic Facepalm Hello!  First post here!  This particular story is the one that finally got me to make an account because I just... I just couldn't believe that this happened to me.  I'll start off by saying I'm a former fatty, at my heaviest I was only ever overweight but now I'm at a healthy BMI of 22, and have been in the healthy BMI range for about a year now, slowly working my way down - this is relevant to the story I promise.  I am also female.   So... I was talking to someone I've known for maybe a little under a year now on a chat site, of which they constantly lament to me about how they are like a female repellent.  The guy is very blunt and to the point about things, and quite tactless... so I get on well with him for that reason, if only because he just says things how they are, like me.  Anyway, upon my hitting a weight goal milestone that I was quite proud of, I was telling this guy about it, and we got to talking about weight and weight loss.  He sends me a picture of himself claiming that he is short but weighs a bit, but he goes to the gym and can lift weights... (yep one of those "strongfat" types), and that he was in the process of losing weight.   I won't post his numbers but his BMI was mid thirties, so he was definitely obese and looked it.  I told him that he was obese, and pointed out that's probably why he had a problem getting a girlfriend.  I asked him what he was doing to lose the weight, as to lose my weight I had relied solely on calorie counting, and it had taken me only about 6 months to get to a normal BMI, and less than a year to hit my goal weight. He proceeds to try and counter me with a sob story about his childhood and how he "barely ate anything" yet he still put on weight, and said that his body just "magically" put on weight despite him being malnourished due to not eating enough.  I told him straight up that I didn't believe him, and pointed out that depending on what he ate, that it was possible to overeat and still not get the vitamins and minerals your body needs to function properly.  I told him that I'd prove it to him, by sticking his diet into my calorie counting app and seeing how much he actually ate, as a child. Long story short, his diet consisted of carbs and sugar, with little to nothing of anything else.  Things like two minute noodles for dinner, Nutella or peanut butter sandwiches for lunch, pretzels, shapes, fruit roll ups... Cordial for drinks. No actual fruit or veg in sight, not even any protein!  I gave him the benefit of the doubt on some things and may have underestimated because he couldn't give me exact amounts (like how many pretzels he ate, because predictably enough calorie counters don't measure by the handfuls...)  When I put in the BARE MINIMUM of what he ate on a daily basis, it came out at 1900 calories.  1900 calories is my absolute maximum amount of calories as an adult woman at 4'11"!  Keep in mind this was the bare minimum of what he ate regularly, and did not count drinks or snacks, except for the Milo he drank every morning with breakfast.  So I tell him this. I'm like okay, dude... your base calorie count was literally 100% of what I am allowed to eat as an adult, and you were eating that as a kid?  I mean, yeah you were probably more active as a kid but shit... he wouldn't have been reporting all the snacks and drinks he had in between meals either, and his diet consisted of basically carbs and sugar.  EVEN AFTER pointing this out, and directly showing him that he was overeating, he still denied it.  "The nutritionist said I wasn't eating enough".  I replied saying that the nutritionist was probably saying that he wasn't eating enough of the foods that he needed to actually function.  Apparently he had quite a few health problems that were directly related to not only being obese, but being malnourished as well. The kicker... he reckons that it's been 7 years and he's trying to get under 100kg's, and by male standards he is very short.  His goal weight would still put him at very overweight... I just couldn't believe it, the numbers he was telling me were absolutely meaningless... how can you still be fat after 7 years of trying to lose weight?  I lost my excess in less than a year!  At that point I just gave up, wished him luck and went to bed.  Because JFC.  He is about 8 years younger than me as well.  So in the time it took me to go from thin to overweight to thin again, he went from obese to a little less obese. I just can't believe the world we live in right now.  That you can show someone exactly where they are going  wrong.  Show someone how much they are over eating, and still... STILL they will be in denial about it.  They will still argue with you over the figures.  They will still blame it on "magical weight gain", like their bodies defy all laws of physics, because fuck the laws of conservation of energy, amirite?  When you're hitting that level of brick wall, it's best to just throw your hands up in the air and walk away.  Because if a guy in most other aspects can say it like it is, but can't see what he's doing wrong when it comes to CICO, then what can ya do?   For all you lurking fatties... stop being fat.  You have no excuse.  STFU.  Count your calories.  Eat properly.  Be human again.  It's not that fucking hard.  You don't need a degree in rocket science.  Just track your calories, identify what you can afford to cut out of your diet, and just fucking do it.  TL;DR - Fatty that I talk to on occasion gave me a dose of reality fat logic.  Even after telling him clearly what the problem was, he continued to counter with fat logic.  I gave up and went to sleep.  Fatties gonna fat.