I really don't like talking about my work most of the time, especially when it's in progress.
It's been really frustrating this semester, people who know that I'm working on this project,
you know, approaching me and trying to talk about it.
I mean, there are certain ways that you can talk about things that are really interesting and engaging,
like people say, you know, oh, so what's your play about?
Like, I don't know, watch it and tell me what you think, or like, oh, what's the story?
Like, the story is all the lines, you know, and the stage directions and what happens on stage.
Like, that's the story.
And so, I mean, part of that is just because I don't really know because it's not done and it's changed a lot.
So that's frustrating.
But also, like dissecting things afterwards sometimes is also really upsetting.
Take what you want, I don't know.
But there are also, I mean, I really enjoyed talking with you when I was going through your gallery
while you were setting it up.
And I don't know.
Totally helpful.
Yeah, if it's not about trying to explain something, but just asking questions of the material that, you know,
or, you know, any two people can talk about.
That's the thing with Artistic 2.
That's why I wanted to have an artist like you.
I went in and I ended up talking to the guy who owned the store.
Who's owned the store since, like, I think the early 70s, Bob Green.
And he was just a really great guy.
And we got to talking for, like, a long time.
I feel like I got, like, most of his life story and, you know, people, like, give him a lot of flack
for, like, owning a typewriter store in 2012.
And I was like, yeah, I totally understand that.
And, like, so I wanted to support that, like, local business and this, like, very romantic endeavor
of, like, selling typewriters in the digital age.
So I bought one from him.
It's great.
It's just, like, it's a different, it's a whole different thing.
It's a different animal than typing out a computer or handwriting.
But it's just, like, there are a lot of things about it that are just different.
It's a different engagement than when you have a screen.
And when you have a delete button, every key that you hit creates something.
And so it's harder to just sort of, like, let go and say whatever.
You're actually making something.
You're putting something out into the world in a more legitimate way.
Like, when I write with it, when I do, like, actual creative writing,
you don't want to put something on that page that you don't think is going to be the best thing,
you know, the best thing that will come out.
Or, on the other hand, sometimes I use it to just sort of, like, free write.
And you can really lose yourself in it.
Just sort of typing away and you get sort of caught into this, like, motion,
like, improvising on the piano.
You know, you can't stop and wait and then, like, push another key.
You just sort of start going, your hands start going,
and, you know, it has a music to it when you're typing.
And it's just, like, you know, you learn to sort of play it.
And, like, things happen.
You get to the end and it dings and you bring it back.
And it's like this, it's just different, you know, every, like, writing with,
writing by hand, writing on the typewriter, writing on the computer.
It's like, it's, your mind, you know, creates the words.
And then, your hand puts them onto something and it's what the barriers are between that
or what the steps are between the creation of that in your mental process
and your hand actually putting it out there that makes the,
the engagement with it very different.
It's something that I, that I, like, a really difficult lesson that I've been learning
sort of over and over of the difference between having an idea and improvising.
And they're, you know, and they're two distinct camps.
And, you know, everyone works in a different way.
And some people find a balance between the two that works for them.
And some people are strictly in one or the other.
And improvising, it's like, you think it's just like, it comes out.
But you have to, it's so much preparation before.
It's like, you work day in, day in, day.
And then when it comes to improvising, it's like second nature.
It just comes out.
It's like building these reserves that are invisible,
but that you, like, with each hour of practice sort of fill in this space behind you
that just like deepens and widens.
And then you don't see that when you are up on the stage.
But because of all of that, you can sort of reach back and scoop up this one drop of water out of that
that is, you know, beautiful or what we want to say because of the fact that that's all there is.
The funny thing about the guy, the kid who owned the name did Satan.
He named the trumpet Satan, which is kind of weird.
I'm like, what?
Satan, why would you ever name a horn Satan?
And it was real beat up, it was real dirty.
It looked pretty old.
She was like, I don't want to throw it out.
So if you like it, I mean, maybe you can just take it.
So I was like, yeah, I'll take it.
I definitely would take it.
So I took it home and cleaned it the first time.
And then I named it Lola.
I couldn't name it Satan.
I had to give it a nice name.
So Lola, she's been Lola since I got it.
It took me probably a couple months to really get used to how it felt.
So I wasn't really, you know, really getting the sound that I wanted out of it.
But I stuck with it.
Just kept playing with it.
I played with it throughout high school.
It became my baby.
Lola became a baby.
The more you take care of the horn, the better.
It sounds better, it plays better.
And the more you play with the horn, you come accustomed to everything about it.
So when you play, it's just second nature, everything about the horn.
You go and you work on techniques that allow you to really get up to those higher notes.
And the more you do that, the more consistent your practice is.
You get it with ease.
Most people, I guess most people believe that it's about the mouthpiece.
It's about the trumpet you're playing on.
You're not going to get a good sound unless you have a really expensive trumpet.
It's not true.
You know, these guys back in the day, some of these guys didn't have money.
They didn't have like resources to go out and buy new mouthpiece.
Every new mouthpiece they came out.
So they took what they had and practiced every single day until they had it, you know.
And I mean, I'm starting to see it now, you know, consistently getting in there, doing long tones,
doing lip slurs, scales over and over.
I mean, and then you try to play high notes after that and you're like, wow, it's a lot easier.
It's not going to be an overnight thing.
It's about doing it for a long time.
And you really get to see it pay off, you know.
A lot of just like nasty shit builds up when you play for a long time and it's gross.
You really got to take care of the horn.
Every time I heard jazz, it made me want to go play my horn.
Every time I saw a live performance, I wanted to go home and like play and try to imitate what I heard.
That's why I love jazz.
I love the fact that you can turn on any record from any time and imitate it and get it down perfect and try to, you know.
That's what I love about jazz.
Well, you were saying about learning more from listening to people and reading music or anything like that.
What kind of the most intimate view you'll get of visual artists' work is through a notebook or like a sketch pad or something like that.
I think I've kept everything I've ever made.
There's a couple of exceptions.
Even on notebooks and napkins and all that stuff, like this summer at my job, I drew a lot.
I kept all the stuff and I think it's coming out in my work now.
It's kind of weird to see.
It's funny that you say the thought process because I think with regards to improv and seeing things in the moment,
maybe it is a material issue in some regard because I think in some ways my paintings are a little bit of my sketchbook.
Right, because you can build them and paint over stuff.
There's tons of different grades and different color quality.
It all depends on how it was mixed, what type of oil they used, what type of pigment.
You've got your cadmium and there's chemicals in them.
White used to be made with lead and there's health hazards.
Very broadly, there's a bunch of different types of paint and they all serve different functions.
I've been able to find colors that work with one another real well or that I like.
Sometimes it's getting really brave and putting two together that I'd never done before
or making a completely new color and trying to fit it in.
I use the cheap stuff and I use a lot of it.
It's excessive.
It's like a patina on top of the canvas.
I used to have a lot of paint left over and now that's not the case.
I'm always looking for more.
I like doing that though because you can really see the way I've made my marks.
More so than I did in the past.
Before I used to see the brushwork but now not only do you see brushwork but you also see my gesture.
Sort of the raw energy of the pieces.
You look at the splotches and paint falls everywhere, it gets all over me.
It gets all over my clothes, I track it out.
It's because I'm not very delicate with it.
I kind of just kind of push right in.
No inhibitions, just get in there.
Sometimes it's a little bit of a battle with the paint or the canvas itself
and sort of figuring out exactly what's going to come out.
I'm always learning and so I think some of my painting and some of the pieces I make are exploratory.
They are me in effect learning.
I like to just try a new thing.
To introduce a new sort of pattern into my work and see where it goes.
I'm pretty willing to let it change to completely add something.
To just keep adding and get to the point where there's just too much and then to take away
and maybe to add something new.
It's kind of the process of completing a piece but usually it's all in one go.
I think painting is the best because it can quick, it has color, it can have depth.
You can edit it and edit and edit again and again and again right there.
I could literally make four inches of paint because I can keep painting over it.
You make a mistake, you can just put more paint on it.
Once I start to generate the idea it might change and change and change and change again.
Even after the piece sometimes I'll go back in and just tweak a little something
because I see something that I didn't before.
Eventually it'll be right if that's what I wanted to do.
I mean I find comfort in that.
Yeah, it's just paint.
I think a big difference between you and me is that I think of what I wanted to be first
and then I make it whereas you improvise and you think as you go
and then sometimes you'll come back to something and decide it's kind of different,
turned out being about something else and you can kind of retrospectively think
about what it means and that kind of thing whereas I try to do that at the beginning
and then still things are going to mean different things to different people
and different things to me over time.
But you are very much an execution. I think about it in my mind under the term of construction,
constructivism. You make something that is conceived.
The actual creation of the piece is much more planned and controlled.
Extremely dense, extremely hard, unpleasant, very alkaline, it'll burn you.
It's like dusty as hell and just generally gross.
And it's such a pain in the ass.
And I just, I was scared about having a whole show of it.
It would be so gray and just everything, yeah, the same color and the same texture.
I thought that would be boring but as it became better using the concrete while,
you know, in setting it and applying it and so forth,
I found that I was like almost painting with it with the trowel as it dried
and then it dries in these patterns, you know, you can see where I pushed it here
and where this part dripped or whatnot.
So also it represents a lot of, you know, like nasty, like modern architecture
and concrete is everywhere and no one's happy about it basically.
So no one likes concrete and it's hard in kind of every sense of the word, hard.
And so that's kind of what the sculptures are about too is people having a hard time
stuck in these hard situations where they are totally concealed in the concrete
and sometimes they're kind of breaking out of it, revealed and just partly missing.
I mean like basically the sculptures are also on this other level like a literal
or kind of a material translation of that theme of revelation or concealment
in personal relationships made real in a material sense as well.
How long can you know someone and or can there be someone in your family
and you still don't know them at all, you know, you see them all the time
and they don't really like display themselves to you or don't let you, you know, get close to them
or whatever and maybe it's you doing that, not your family, you know.
So what I think made me want to do that for this project is it's like in a painting,
you could make a painting of like a guy with his head stuck in a big block of concrete
or you could like just make the thing, you know.
So I was like, okay, cool, I'll make it.
That could be kind of a cool picture or whatever, it could be a cool drawing
but if you encountered that in real life it would be quite a different experience.
It's just like it's more real, it's more direct, I guess in a way.
They're not like virtuosic sculptures, they're about experience
and the viewer's either emotional or intellectual response to them
and I'm not trying to be Bernini or, you know, like these like fantastic, well-described things.
I think a lot of the sculptural description in my pieces is actually not very good at all
but that's not what it's about and for me it's okay that I'm lacking in that way.
I feel more confident in my abilities as a photographer or a printmaker
or maybe you're a draftsman.
But it just was more important to deal with the experience of encountering the work
than it was to deal with my strong suit.
That's why I just made the last piece with my own hands in there.
It's the only piece in the show that has my actual body in it.
The only one that is really like a self-portrait in that sense
and if I can guide people kind of through it in the way they walk through it
that'll be the last one.
I'm here, I'm underneath all this stuff.
It's not easy, we're just talking about words and none of this is probably correct.
On my part, on my part.
We're just some dudes.
We're also between 20 and 23 children.
I wish you the best.
This is nice to sit around with other people who are engaging with things like this
because it gets really lonely sometimes.
It's like going to your room and do your thing.
It's nice to know other people are in their rooms doing their things.
I like comparing different practices.
A lot of stuff overlaps.
Some more obscure stuff in weird ways.
It does really fit together.
Cool.
That's good.
It's been a pleasure.
Yeah, yeah.
Great.
Nice to meet you.
Thanks for being here too man.
