There's all sorts of theories on how the reggae and how the rocksteady came because one of the ones
I like is that they in Jamaica they were they could get on the radio
They got Miami radio stations and they heard the the um like think about you can't hurry love
And if you got a little tinny a.m. Radio most thing you're gonna hear you can't
That's what you're gonna hear on this tiny little radio and again, this is just one of the theories that I've heard
I just wanted to be in a ska band there was nothing it's not much in San Diego
And I wanted to play some original tunes and have some fun and so it took me like
About a year and a half to find enough musicians and that band became a donkey show
The first band was in high school in 81 82. It's called the zones. We just used to mix it up
We loved everything so we played everything whether it was stuff. We were writing you know, we'd write reggae tunes
We'd write these big ska epics and that was before there was any kind of scene that we knew about they were donkey show
And I was you know 18 19 years old. They had these big shows in LA
Where they would have like 500
700 people
You know like a thousand people at these things that they would get together like five or six bands and they call it a mod ska
Fest we didn't discover that there was any kind of scene until 80
85 86 where we found this flyer
With this guy dressed as it turns out it was Steve LeForge the keyboard player for the toasters
It was not it looks like our friend Wendell. It wasn't but we turned it over none of the toasters
So that's kind of when we started crossing the bridge literally to from Brooklyn and to Manhattan to see those bands
The first time I played New York was in 1988 with the hockey show like CBGB's was it was the toasters
BIM Scala BIM and
donkey show and
We played last for some reason it was late, you know, I think it was like one in the morning or something
But it was really good. I mean, I'm sure you know in retrospect
It was 50 people, you know, I mean, you know, it
CBG is just not that big and it wasn't sold out
You know, I mean a lot of CBGB's
The Cat Club there was I don't know 40 worth. There was a I don't know
I only played there a couple times straight even the China Club uptown
Yeah, back then back then there were lots and lots of little clubs on the Lowry side
But it's pretty early on Vicky who was our bass player worked the door and so CB is now in it
So she goes a gig there on their auditions night, which is Tuesday and
CB's really liked it. So at that point we got into playing weekends and CB's pretty early on after that
We just kind of made that a new residency
Well, we used to play CBGB's a lot
That was like that was like the home base of the Scarsian in those days
All the shows would be booked together you to usually see the second step be brigade the toasters the a-kings
Boilers credit has to be given to Rob Hingley aka bucket from the toasters
There was a lot of people playing Scott music and related kinds of music
But as far as like bringing a lot of these people together into one
You know scene Rob was really behind that he put those shows together
It was the toasters thing man. He he was toasters with headline and he would invite you on the bill
And that was how it went. It was a while before other people were doing it without the toasters
There was this whole big late 80s mid late 80s scossing that was kind of playing at CBGB's and it was kind of very punky
And like Murphy's law was into it and you know
It really had an edge and it was dangerous and there'd be fights and it was like a really edgy scene
I think the city was different. It was a bit dirtier
I think it was a bit more dangerous
When you went to see a band you discovered things in the 80s it was really
You know life-changing mind-blowing, you know now with reissues and with YouTube and
You know eBay and all this stuff you can find the music you can just type in a certain artist and find it when I was first
Getting into reggae you could not do that
There was no eBay or whatever a lot of this early Jamaican stuff wasn't readily available
And people take it for granted now because now it's like you know you hop on SoulSeek or you're touring something or whatever
To find some reggae like you know shops in Brooklyn or whatever
But to really hear about it if you didn't live in those neighborhoods like it was really tough
There were a bunch of ska bands in New York from the late 80s early 90s
It was actually mid 80s to late 80s who there was a scene they had created a real scene
That's what the toasters come out of but that was really starting to peter out
Every year from like 1988 to 1995
Oh ska it's gonna be the big next year it's gonna be the thing you would always hear that
And then finally in 1995 next year happened you know
But people have been saying it so by you know 92 you're like I'll go fuck yourself it's not gonna happen whatever
If I recall I woke up one morning kind of hungover turned on the TV
And Carson Daly had this show or whatever at the time if I recall on MTV
They put him up in some stupid like you know summer house somewhere on the beach somewhere right
And if I recall one morning I wake up and he's dressed up as a rude boy
You know with the like you know two tone you know suit and like you know skinny tie and pork pie hat
And he must have got like all these kids like from the ska scene out in California or something
And he got all those kids to start dancing around and they were playing you know madness or the specials or whatever
And I was like wow you know what the hell is going on
Grew up going to all the you know the days of the New York City Ska Mop
You know moon records all those bands meth scoffleys and of course the slackers
These showcases at wetlands where great you know go to moon ska they set it up and you'd have ten bands on the bill
And you'd get there at five in the afternoon and then last band would be going on at midnight
And it seemed like all those bands were kind of psyched to play with each other you know the bills were eight bands
And you know you'd go and just stay for the whole show and it was awesome
You got a good variety of stuff there was a lot of activity going on it was just
Wetlands was the home base for ska music it was a home base for all the moon ska showcases
It just seemed natural like yeah you know wetlands and Decker's backstage or Toots is there
And remember the show that kind of I think was the turning point in this and that means
For the slackers or the end steps for the for just the scene
Okay
It was at the wetlands and the slackers had just or they were going to drop red light
I don't know if it had just come out and their set was the red light set and I remember standing there like
This is the new shit right here
They're just there's slackers you can't put them in any bucket like you can't tag them in iTunes
I went to see them in when I was in high school at this place called The Hook
And that was the first time I saw them and it was like the best show I've ever been to
That band's been playing early reggae and rocksteady forever
So slackers were always kind of like you know they were good we're good in New York band and they toured
But I didn't have the impression back then that they were going to be you know the whole steady band that come out of this stuff
If it wasn't there was so unimaginative about what to do next we would have quit the slackers a long time ago
But we are imaginative with what to do with the slackers you know and we are very stubborn
The band came to be out of an old band called the Rabies
One that was a New York band and then my old band Sick and Mad which was a punk band from the suburbs
We were Sick and Mad and at one point he asked me if I wanted to be in a ska band
And I said what ska?
He got back to me with a tape one half of which was the specials and one half of which was the Scatolites
You know we had a vague knowledge of Tutom, vague because it wasn't popular
At the time we were taking from the specials first album and we were taking from Madness and a lot of other bands that were related
We ended up on the same build together at TT the Bears one night it was the slackers
It might have been Skinner Box as well and Pressure Cooker and that was probably the first time I saw the slackers
About maybe 5, 6, 7 months after that maybe a little less maybe
Jeremy gave me a call and said we just recorded a record called Red Light
And we are going to be touring behind this record and he said would you have any interest in doing that
And I was looking for a project like that so he's like yeah come on down
Can you leave in a week and a half and luckily for me I just finished college
And I was substitute teaching of all things and working different jobs or whatever
And I was like yeah you know something I think I can do that
It's weird how I ended up in the band because at first I wasn't really sure if I wanted to do this
But then the style of the band became stuff I was more interested in
I hit it off with Vic right away so like we always had a musical connection happening
I was drinking a lot and then when I sobered up for my self-pitying
My girlfriend's leaving me drunk and binge I was in the slackers
Also around that time Jeff Baker had this idea of putting together a band that would play
Ska like old Ska you know the stubborn all-stars
Jeff Baker had put together stubborn all-stars
I think I started playing with them around 94, 95 something like that
It wasn't even supposed to be a band you know Skinnerbox was chugging along
Like I said we were pretty busy I was like you know I still really want to do something more
Jamaican roots and so I just put together this group to make
I just wanted to make an EP on the label like on stubborn records and put out
That's why it's called stubborn all-stars
But it came out we put it out in the stores and then like two weeks later I got a phone call
Say oh this is Fred Feldman at Profile Records why don't you come see me
And so they were down to put out the record so we got a band together
You know I had met Jango in passing doing Agent 99 gigs with Skinnerbox
But it was Vickragero who recommended me going hey this guy this guy would be a good guitar player
You should get Eddie Ocampo from the insteps
And I was like yo that guy plays drums real good for this music
You know Victor Rice is really good on the bass for this you know
So then I just invited them and Vickragero so that was that
That was the original lineup of that
95 the Slack has made a record at Coyote Studios in Williamsburg
The stubborn all-star stuff was recorded there insteps record was made there
And that was where?
That was in Williamsburg on North 6th Street off of Barry
I can't even imagine what that looked like there
Man we'd have to like walk in teams to the bodega just cause no one wanted to get jacked
You know you get off the L train and book
Wow
They had been here for 10 years already at that point
And they had the most beautiful studio in the world
The Slackers and stubborn all-stars recorded there
They got a call from somebody that was asking for a punk trombone player
They immediately thought of Jeff
They said oh there's this guy we know punk trombone player
I mean nobody ever heard of the concept
Punk reggae I think they even asked for like a punk ska
Or punk reggae trombone player
They called Jeff immediately
I went up getting a call from the studio that we had been recording at
And they said yo Django call Rancid they need trombone
I said okay so I went over there
And I gave Tim the open season album
He brought a stubborn all-stars record to them
And I remember having a feeling about this
Like because Rancid was just starting to blow up
And they had a hit on the radio with time bomb
And I remember that it was a two tone song
And I never heard two tone on the radio that was a current band
So I had a feeling
And I went to the show
And I didn't even see Jeff and I didn't even meet the band
But I had a feeling that this was an auspicious day
I played with Tim a couple nights and then you know after that
Tim called me up
The stubborn all-stars got asked to open for Rancid in Europe
And it was like whoa what they listened to the record
They listened to it and they asked us
If a ska band would go on tour with them around Europe
So of course
We went to Europe with them for a month and opened for them there
And then when we came back from that
Tim called me and asked me if I would go on Lollapalooza 96 with them
And play Trombone
And then a little later on he asked me
If we could bring the rest of the horn section and Vic playing organ
So we did that
On Lollapalooza in 1996
They began forming the ideas of Hellcat Records
Rancid was doing great
Epitaph was doing great
They started thinking about it
I mean Tim was given this opportunity
And he was given the full reign to go and select bands that he liked
And he signed them
You know what I mean
And that was real
That was for real
That had legs
Those records under the umbrella of Epitaph
Couldn't get your record out there to these little independent record stores
And of course me and Vic are feeding like CDs
You know we got this other band the Slackers
You really should check it out
I played them all my bands
And everything that I could possibly play
I played on the bus for them
Because they were on a bus
I played them Sick and Mad
I played them the Slackers
I played them my friends bands
I played them everything
And I said this is what's happening in my life
And I'm a schmuck
But I want to do this
The Slackers took advantage of that situation a lot more than I did
So Vic and Dave had their own agenda basically
And Tim asked me if I wanted to leave the label that we were on
And go to Hellcat
And I was like no
Because Fred is cool with me
But you should sign a Hebcat
So then when Hellcat got started
Of course we were like I think the Slackers were like the fourth or fifth band
To get asked us to be signed too
So we were sort of sitting there
Okay that's cool
I can see why they asked Hebcat
They're doing pretty well
Pie Tasters yeah they do pretty well
I wonder if they're going to ask us
I don't know
So they finally asked us
And we said yes please
Thank you
It was a perfect timing
When it was that little crest in the wave
Where they started to be some buzz about ska music
Or reggae music
Where bands were starting to reference that
And then all of a sudden Hellcat
Decided to select a few bands
And we got a band and started touring it right at the right time
After Red Light came out
Then we could tour all over the US
We did like three US tours back to back to back
What they did was great
What they did for us was fantastic
They made us a world class band
What do you mean a career
What do you mean how is it benefiting me
It pays my damn rent
I mean the thing with the Hellcat release
Is it got it out around the world
So that got us to the next level
And then we struggled around trying to get past that
Yeah I don't know
It all went, it all just figured itself out
Alright so it must have been like 1996
So I wasn't in the ska flows anymore
I was playing with Scott Jazz and M.F. Scott Fleas
Stubborn All Stars
I started rehearsing at the Stubborn spot
Virgin City
And it would just become a recording studio as well
That was Skinner Box's rehearsal space
On East 3rd Street
I was doing a lot of recording with a lot of different studios at the time
And it was kind of always in the back of my mind
To buy stuff and build it up
And I had actually been picking up little pieces here and there
But after working with Rancid on La Palooza
We did a recording for the Beavis and Butthead film
And Tim was very generous again
And gave us all a nice little check
It wasn't a huge amount of money
But it was very gracious of him
And Rancid to give us that much money
It's not paid well
So I think Django used the money to buy all this equipment
He bought a Yamaha board
And he bought an 8-track Tascam
Real to real
I think I might have already even had the tape deck
But whatever
I was able to get it from having a couple pieces of gear
To having an operational tracking studio
And I was still piecing it together
I had a contract to do that Roots and Culture record
Which is like 1997 I guess is when I was working on it
And I was working at this studio with an engineer
Whatever whatever
And I was just listening to...
We recorded several compilation tracks there
And I just felt I wasn't really jiving with the engineer
And wasn't really thrilled about how the stuff was coming out
And I was like I could do this myself
Like let me just get this studio finished
And I'll just do it myself
So he brought in all this gear
And for two days we set up the stuff
And he showed me how to wire the stuff up
I cancelled the studio time
And the night before the recording sessions
I called the band and I was like
Don't go to the studio
Come to the rehearsal spot
And they were like what happened
You cancelled the recording
I was like no
We're doing it there
And they were like
Okay this guy lost his mind
Got there early in the morning
And we're just like still putting things together
Because it had never recorded yet
So he was running up and down the street
There was like a music store down the block still at that point
I'm like we need these cables
Go get those
And he would come back
And by the time he came back
I was like okay we need this now
You just keep running up and down the block buying stuff
I never actually wired up a studio
And the tape machine
And he showed me how to spool up the tape
And how to route all the wires
And the patches
And compressors and delays
And mics and XLR cables
And all this stuff
So that was for me
That was music school
You know engineering school
Was version city
By the time they got to the studio
We weren't ready to roll yet
So I was like here
You guys just go buy some Chinese food
And hang out for a while
By the time they finished eating
I was like okay let's start getting sounds
And that was the first thing that we recorded down there
Routes that culture
I was going out of town a lot
I gave a key to Victor Rice
And I gave a key to Victor
No to Agent J
And somehow Victor Ruggiero
Snuck in there
But he wasn't giving a key
Not only was it a really great studio
For rehearsing and recording
It was also a place where
We as musicians could kind of mature
In the style
And experiment a little
And kind of learn and teach each other
How to play reggae
I basically learned how to play
Rocksteady and reggae
In that studio
Basically when I was around
I was in there all the time
So whoever was around
Would just pop in
And stuff was being worked on
To be like oh you got your horn
Oh I need a tenor on this
Or this, that and your other thing
It was just on a sidewalk
On 3rd Street and 1st Avenue
Where just people in town
And random musicians would just
Oh the space is open
Let's just go down there
And see who's there
And it's like anarchist
Reggae free for all
On those records and it's great
The gate should be open
And Victor Rice probably be there
Mixing something or Agent J was there
So a lot of people cut their teeth
I guess being part of that studio
Engineer wise, sound wise
In terms of musicianship
It was like a physical place
For people to hang out
And it was on the same block
As jammy land
So there was a source of musicians
Coming to the block for different reasons
And it was also the same block
For the Hells Angels headquarters
So the police weren't coming
To that block
Because it was probably the safest
Block in town you know
I mean there was a lot of shenanigans
Going on in that place
Victor Rice dumping a pint of Guinness
Into a box of white t-shirts
Maybe Victor Gero like being caught
Sleeping in there with the rats
And stuff
That's one thing about that
You know you'd see rats running around
Every now and then
So at some point there was this guy Nick
Who was kind of the super
Of the building and stuff
And he liked us there
And you know we never messed with his stuff
So he was cool with us
But there was so many rats
You know one summer there was like
A real rat epidemic in the East Village
So he put out all these rat traps
Basically all the rats were killed
By all this rat poison and rat paper
So we'd try and go down there to work
And it would just reek of like dead rats
To the point of nausea
Where it like hurt to be down there
It stank so bad
It was just reeked of rotting
Decaying rats
And then of course within days
There were like biblical swarms of flies
So we would literally open these like
Metal shutters off the sidewalk
And like when I say biblical amounts of flies
It was black with flies
And it would just come out
And it was just like
Holy shit we have work to do down there
There was literally 50 trillion flies
In this studio
And it's still reeked of dead rats
Well people were doing all kind of funny shenanigans to me
A lot of my gear was vanishing
A lot of my gear was being broken
People were charging other people to record them there
And not giving me any money for it
And I was paying all the rent
Basically people were just screwing around a lot
And not really finishing anything
So I was paying for it
I was buying reels all the time
There was no finished product or very little
And you know a lot of my stuff disappeared
And walked out of there while people were recording
When the landlord finally sold the building
We literally had to go around the back alley
And break in through the back to get out the equipment
So I just was done
And you know at that time also
My apartment in the Lower East Side
I've been living there for like 10 years
It was a sublet
And the guys that actually had the rights to the apartment
Were like well one of our kids is going to go to college
And we're going to give it to him
So you got to get out
So I just packed up everything and split
Once Virgin City was closed in New York
It wasn't even like that
It was the mark of what was actually going on
All the musicians were leaving Manhattan
Because there's no way to afford the real estate
There's no way to afford the rent in Manhattan
So all the artists were actually moving away
From the center of town
It was a totally different vibe
Even in the last 10 years with real estate going as it is
We're talking about real estate
And seeing the city change so fast
And become so expensive
That the artists aren't really there anymore
And it was no longer convenient
There was no longer a spontaneity that was gone
You had to make arrangements
If you wanted to run into somebody
That whole thing kind of affected
Live music in the city
Real estate with...
Giuliani had this...
Can I go there even?
We were talking about Giuliani
So Giuliani had these cabaret laws
That he enforced where people couldn't...
You couldn't dance in a club
It was like Footloose in New York City
It's this crazy law
Like if more than two people are dancing somewhere
You have to have a cabaret license
Giuliani years really did a number on the music venues
A lot of them lost their license
Or gentrification happened in Manhattan
So that wetlands is now a furniture place
So there was that
There was no smoking in the clubs
So everybody was forced to be outside
Where they'd be mingling and talking
And whatever they were drunk probably
And having a good time being loud
And then those clubs would feel pressure too
Used to be all venues in Manhattan
Where the scotch shows happened
But Brooklyn is sort of the center of the scene now
This knitting factory moved
And there was a whole big change with that
Losing that club definitely was...
It was a shitty thing
At the same time it was such a great thing
Because we did get forced into the underground
We went back to throwing house parties
I think the best answer for anyone who's asked us
What are the reggae and scotch shows like in New York
I would have to say
Come to either a dirty reggae party
A virgin city party
Or a night at Otto's, a Thursday night
All those different shows have this certain environment
To them where you can tell everybody's there
For the same reason
It feels like a party with a live band
And DJs between bands
And not just a show where people show up
And they're watching the bands
And then they stand around bored between bands
Or they run out to their cars to have a drink
This is like a party
People are there not just to dance
But to talk to each other and to hang out
I think it must have been 2009
Sammy Kaye from the fourth rights
Wanted to do an after show party
They were playing I think Bowery Poetry Club in the city
They wanted to do an after show party
Because that was 21 plus
So they couldn't hang out there
They were like hey man can you set up some kind of underground
You know an underground space we can do
Like an after show party
And I was like okay let me make some calls
And I called around
I had just met Chris from the lake
And I was like I needed a name for the night
So I was just like it was reggae bands
But it was kind of in this kind of punky space
They had to move it to this other space
Called Glass Door
Which was even more rough around the edges
And we brought intern tables and did the whole thing
And that was the first dirty reggae party
And then some people came out
And it was a cool party
And you know again it was an underground space
So there was no obnoxious bouncers
There was whatever was a free vibe
And people respected it
So we did one you know a month or so later
And then we moved it back to the lake
And you know we were originally going to do it
But that people came out to that
That was cool
And so it's just been snowballing since then
It doesn't feel like a show as much
Because it's kind of just all these bands that are friends
Playing and taking turns getting up on stage
The lake is a really cool dirty fun place to play
First of all it's like almost impossible to find
It's just a blank door really in the middle of nowhere
In Brooklyn
And then you go up a long staircase
And then you're at a freaking awesome party
It looks like somebody like punched through the wall
And was like alright that's going to be
That's the sound board there
It's the sound booth
It's this corner of the room
You can go on that street
There's no cause park outside
You never even know that something's happening
You know
You go there and it's just somebody's living space
But there's this really cool stage in it
And there's a whole like backyard area
Where you're there in the summer
You can go down the steps
And there's different rooms
You can sort of travel through this whole community
And talk to different people
And it's more of a home feel to it
So in that way it's kind of great
It's like a home base for this stuff
Playing there and being there makes
That's the way it should feel
Like that's what I think of a show
And what I always imagined a show to be like
It was one time Jeremy from Deadly Dragon
Was DJing with John and I at the lake
And he was going to wheel up a tune
And I guess got so excited about how good the tune was
That he wheeled himself off of the DJ booth
Like wheeled the record back and went back
Fell about five or six feet off of the platform
Backwards
We looked up
The song wasn't playing and there was no DJ
It's policed by the people who come to the show
And the people that do it
It's not because there's an oppressive
Security force in your face
To community self-policing
Oh and you've been to the lake?
Yeah
I'm trying to get everybody to describe the lake
In five words
Upscure
Stairs
Packed
Sweaty
Smoky
Busy
Boozy
Latino
Loud
It's very loud in that place
Electric
It's a great self-regulated party
Vomit
DIY is obvious
Strange
Inspiring
Shit hole that I love
Smelly is a word that other people may have used
But I don't think it smells that bad
But you know, welcoming
Tell me about autos
Autos is cool
Autos is really weird
I mean, Autos Shrunkin' Head has free shows
All the time
But specifically Thursday nights in the front room
They have reggae DJs
Jailpoint and J's DJ gig as well as Rata and everybody else's DJ there
I feel really fortunate that there's a place where I can go
And listen to other people pick out the songs I'm going to listen to on a fairly regular basis
A lot of big nights have happened for me there
And they've been really kind to continue to host it
It's a little more accessible again
I have friends who would go to autos because it's a club
With a guy checking IDs at the door
Versus like a dirty reggae party
Which, you know, a little bit off the beaten path
I'm just happy that I have a variety of places to play
Where a variety of people can come to see me play
There's like never a dull moment at these parties
Because there will be a band playing
And then as soon as they're done
The selector will hit it up with a big track, you know
And he'll play right up to the second the band starts again
I feel like it's just like glue
Like you don't want, you know
You don't want there to be like 20 minutes of dead air between set changes
And you don't want to be listening to like
Grindcore or whatever the fuck
Like I'm sorry if you like Grindcore
But I don't even know what that is
I've been DJing for a little while I guess
I'm a little bit different
Because I play like strictly 45s
It just seems like that's the only way I could do it
I don't really know
I'm not a really computer type of person
Owning the record is just like
I don't know man it's like owning a piece of stock
In that song or something
Grace is one of the youngest DJ in New York I think
I thought I was
And then I found out she was younger than me
She grew up with a lot of vinyl
So she has a very strong background
She's a killer soul DJ too, you know
Anytime somebody has asked me
You know
How to become a good DJ
Or you know
What's the secret
There isn't really any secret other than
Just learning your records
You know you love them
So you play them over and over again
You know exactly where
That record skips
Exactly where to cut it
You know
And that's
The whole like
Real love behind records for me
Is learning the records and
Knowing it like the back of my hand
It's funny to see people's reactions sometimes
Like little white girl playing reggae music
This is interesting
That's never going to get old
I think
I like the running a certain rhythm
I like matching the beat when I can
When I have it together enough
And when the turntables are fast enough
When I can do that
I like keeping the set moving
Where it's like if you can do that
And just keep the energy going
Where like right when people are at that edge
If you just drop in that next drum fill
Or that next tune
And like drop in some killer tune
They've never heard before
That they're like what is this
But the beat comes in so hard
They just can't deny it
And then you drop in some classic tune
Right when you're playing all this
Rare hard shit that they're loving
Then you drop the side they know
And then the place goes nuts
Like that's what I like to try and
Sometimes I can do it
A lot of times I can't
Me and Chuckie in particular
Like we don't want anybody to steal our tunes
So we're scratching the labels out now
There's some like competition going on
For sure but it's all friendly
It's great competition
DJs like to be very competitive with each other
We don't want anyone to know
Like I don't want anyone to know what I'm spinning
Like my favorite records
Just like how they did in Jamaica
Scratch my records off you know
Some DJs will find out what you're spinning
And they will make sure to have that shit too
And they'll play that before you
It's not you know the late 60's
70's or 80's
Nowadays it's like you could shazam it
Right on your phone and you know
It's kind of silly
And then yeah we have gigs here
Like me and Maddie do it all the time you know
It's like the first to spin it
Otherwise the second person can't spin it
It's like just like there's like rules involved
I don't know sometimes there's
Scratch your records label off you know
But then there's always the blank ones
To check the blank ones
Pinto is a person who I know
He spins sometimes without any labels
He has like the blank style
Dude New York has a billion billion you know DJs
We have a lot of selectors
And we have a lot of DJs
Have you ever been to Mush Ones
Outparagus parties
He has a party every month
I mean every season
Besides summer because it gets too hot
But like that like my Jamaican idols come to you
Like Lady Ann, Johnny Osborn
Carlton Livingston like
People that I can't imagine being that close to
Yeah
Just in your like just hanging out you know like
Whatever man a lot of people can like
Drop a record and just be like
Alright you know I got this record
I'll play it for you
You know certain people in a certain environment
Can play that exact same record
And like explode a fucking
You know explode the fucking dance hall
You know there's also the deadly dragon crew
Which is um
Deadly Dragon is a record store
Only Jamaican music
Those guys have a night every week too
That I try to go to as much as I can
And they play everything man
You'll catch Queen Majesty or you know
Jeremy Freeman or you know any of those guys
Just the whole crew
They all fucking know this music better than
Fucking anybody
You know Scratch Famous from Deadly Dragon
His knowledge in fucking reggae music is like
You know very deep
And so he has like a lot of unbelievable tunes
Obviously he fucking runs Deadly Dragon
That's a shit
The greatest thing about him is that like
Whatever he could play
Israelites you know the
You know Desmond Decker's Israelites
Like a very common whatever song
And I've shared this with him before
Is that you know maybe I played
Israelites the same night
You know in a different venue and whatever
And people listen to it maybe some people
Dance
But
In a Deadly Dragon party
Let's say he dropped the same tune
An hour later
And the fucking room explodes
And he has to bring it back like six times
Because there's fucking eight assholes in the corner
And just keep telling them to forward it
And forward it and forward it
It's nice that all these DJs come together
To spin reggae and rocksteady and sky
And like have all that kind of stuff in common
Like all these DJs that I know are like
All buddies and we're all cool with each other
And we all always have a good time
To keep spinning together you know
It makes it more fun you know like
Sometimes autos is literally like
Just the DJs taking turns spinning
And we all have a good time you know
Yeah geez like is there anywhere else in the world
That people just like party and listen to rocksteady
Like play rocksteady music
At some point when I was listening to all this
Jamaican music at my house and like
Really enjoying it I was like
I think I'm like starting to get a little crazy
You know I mean why am I listening to so much reggae music
You know and then I went to these reggae shows
And I'm like these people are listening to the same music
I'm listening to that home you know
I remember how happy I was to find a place
That I could actually hang out with my friends
And they're playing the tunes that I love
And like I could drink and like dance
And like see bands perform the same type of music
You know it's like it's great you know
Within I guess probably the past three years or so
Bands like The Frightners, The Hard Times
The Fourth Rites, almost every other weekend
You got something going on
The Frightners really impressed me because
I knew them all as guys who were just coming to shows
And hanging out and then all of a sudden they had a band
They were all people you know
Who'd been coming in and out of shows
Dan and Chuck and everybody
I was very surprised when I saw them the first time
They show up looking like the fucking rat pack
In nice suits it had that swagger
That fucking rat pack swagger
Like Sinatra had you know
When I first met Dan a couple of times
He like would toast a little to the selectors
And that time I remember specifically
Like he sounded really good with the selector at the time
We got along really well like
Our music taste was very similar at the time
And like the things we would want to play in a band
Sounded like almost like exact
I had just asked Dan that day if he'd like
Wanted to be in a band and he was totally down
And I told him alright I'm going to call you in a couple of weeks
I'm going to try to get a band together
Live show it's fucking all little Dan
Little Dan is just a great frontman man
Like I don't know it feels like he's like
It feels like he's yelling at God or something
It's really cool to watch him perform
It's one of those things like when Dan sings about a broken heart
You feel those tears rolling down his face
You believe what he says
Three years ago I was like I really want to try to like
Spit some lyrics on this rhythm
In the shower, walking down the street
Singing my favorite reggae tunes
And he was playing some awesome shit
And I just really wanted to get on there and try
And I did and it was like wow I can do this
This is pretty cool you know
And then every time I got a chance with like
Shockwave sound or crazy ball head
I would get on a microphone and the hard times
I sang a couple of tunes with them very early on
And that really helped me get a sense of how to like
Hold the microphone and be in front of people you know
At a certain point yeah I met these guys
And it was like and not only did we like reggae
But we were really interested in a certain period
Of reggae you know it was like
Meeting a bunch of twenty something year olds
Who were like nice people and
They were really interested in like studio one
Sixty stuff so it wasn't just like we like reggae
You know cause like you can be into like
Dub and some Raga jungle
Techno shit and I could be into like
Blue Beats, God and Rocksteady
And it's like you know I'm in 68 and you're in Planet Mars
We're not we were all like yo 1968
Sugarmine, Alton Ellis
You know we were like on the same page
We want to make a certain kind of reggae
We want to stick to them
Which is what I think our binding factor is
That we share our common like
Taste and a common vibe
Chuckie got his gold organ
We opened up his organ a couple months ago
And it's like I don't know where he got it from
But it's like these like super delicate wires
That just barely touch this like contact
I don't know like whoever thought this would be a good way
To make it make a piano
But it like has this light touch
And that's the way he plays and it really comes through
He plays this great like organ that he has like
Little distortion on his organ
And he more than anyone like epitomizes
What I call like dirty reggae
You know cause they you know he really has that like
Kind of making reggae punk
And kind of making punk reggae
We got some things that you haven't seen yet man
We're going to try new things like
Colip, we're going to try Calypso
You know we're going to try some blue beat
Some like very R&B like
Like the beginning of Skah
Yeah just stay true to vintage Jamaican music
You know like really like let it shine
The hard times was Bob Tim
Who's been around I guess since the de facto
Who was like a mid 90's
New York kind of Skah band
And he's been around for a while
Skah band with I guess Jerica
Who was in the Skah flaws
And a couple other people
I got a lot of respect for the hard times
For doing I think something that a lot of
The people who are playing now have thought about doing
But I've been a little bit too afraid to
Is playing primarily instrumentally
And they're mostly instrumental kind of
Funky like skinhead reggae
Mostly organ you know instrumental kind of stuff
You know we put the band together
The first thing Bob did was send out
All these you know tunes for us to learn
And a lot of them were instrumentals
They were like these classic reggae instrumentals
So that was just sort of like the material
We were working from
And we were never really aggressively looking
For a singer a lot of the bands we were
Modeling ourselves after
Were these bands that were just sort of
Studio backing bands or live backing bands
You know where it was somebody
And the such and suches
Well we were the such and suches
And anybody who's going to do it I'm glad they did
Because I think they definitely got it right
I think they are a tight enough band
Where you can sit and
Watch a whole set of them playing these tunes
That don't necessarily have any vocals
And you know not get bored of it
Playing with them has really changed my keyboard playing
Because I'm thinking more rhythmically
In the way I play
And Bob and Jake are awesome as well
Jake will play you his skank
Literally all day long
Which is exactly what you're looking for
It's the hardest thing to do
Is to just play what the music needs
They can all do that which is cool
And they have great rhythms
And it's fun playing with them and it's easy to write
I definitely remember seeing the hard times
And being like
I felt like they popped up out of nowhere
I did not know Jerika
I did not know Jacob Wakeup
I didn't know any of those guys
I did not know any of them so they came up
And they were awesome music
Dead on skinhead reggae
Playing a lot of upsetters
And really awesome skinhead reggae stuff
A lot of early reggae
And some cool rock steady stuff also
And they were nailing it
No hard times show is exactly the same
We were fortunate we have singers
Who come and do a song with us
Or somebody gets up and chats on a song we're doing
One of our strengths is that
If somebody gets up on stage
We can sort of work around them
In general because you can see all of them
They're having a good time
The hard times we're doing a lot of great things
But the
Unfortunate thing is sometimes
Somebody falls in love and has to move
To another state and that's a beautiful thing
We've been playing with the fourth rights
For a couple of years now
They're definitely a big inspiration to us
It's really fun to try to one up
Your friends and bring out the best in each other
Through that friendly competitive vibe
I moved to New York
And I had just gotten
Dumped
And was depressed
And in a brand new city
And didn't know anybody
And was having a really hard time
I go to shows and stuff
Couldn't make any friends
I'll just start a band
And then they have to hang out with me
I
Met Sammy Kay
Years and years ago
While I was still playing with the fad
Playing the trash bar
And I was like, I want to be in that band
I wish I could be in that band
And I had met Jack and Matt
At
A slacker show
At the Bowrie Ballroom
And so I just had this
In my head that well if Jack
Moves from guitar to piano
And Sammy goes from pick guitar
To bass
That I could work my way into this band
To play guitar which is what I wanted to do
I never played bass
Until
This day, you're a bass player now
We got the opportunity to
Go on tour with
Vic Rejero from the Slackers
And Chris Murray from King Apparatus
Two people who've been living the music
For basically their adult lives
We were
Their backing band playing
Old tunes of
Vicks that we were fans of
From the sick and mad stuff to
The scandalous all-stars stuff
It was a trip to be able to play those songs
And even in Chris Murray's tunes
It was like
Taking a class on reggae music
I think the Vic and Chris tour
Did a lot of good for the fourth rights
But I think that
After that it became
More apparent that
People wanted to do different things
Towards the end of the tour
With Vic Rejero and Chris Murray
We stopped in Niles, Ohio
We recorded
In an attic in Ohio
With Nate
And it was like a complete clusterfuck
And then it worked out
And it was all live
And they both played with us
Which was really fun
The recording had a feel to it
And the session had a feel to it
Which was something that I hadn't experienced before
And since doing that
It's something that I've been striving for
Maddie is very cool
For our first experiences
Outside of New York
Of someone who was doing exactly
What we were trying to do
On my way to Europe with my other band
We stopped in New York on the way
And I played a show with the fourth rights
It was in Europe with FTA
And things were great
But I kept thinking about the fourth rights
I just messaged her one day on Facebook
And said, yo
You're in New York often
Next time you come
We'll get a longer set
And you know, Maddie Ruthless in the fourth rights
The fourth rights, Maddie Ruthless
And when
My work was founded on Albert
When they kind of dissipated a little bit
The fourth rights asked me
To go on tour with them
And we went on a full national tour together
In a 1988
Dodge club wagon
And we didn't really
We had kind of a radio and no AC
We went from
Chicago to Texas
Texas to California
California to the Midwest and then back to New York
And so it was incredible
I wanted to do a tour
With the fourth rights
And we had the union
Putting a traditional band with the Scott Punk band
I had
I kind of got the idea from
When the slackers took on the music industry on tour
Playing for the Scott Punk scene
Was interesting and fun
And it's completely
Different than what we were trying to do
But like it's interesting to see how there is
A connection there and I guess people who like
One are supposed to like the other
Started in Minneapolis, we met
We are the union there
We worked our way down
To New Orleans for the
Community Records Block Party
And we played on
The street outside
Of the big top
And it was a whole lot of fun
We played sometime in the middle of the day
For 20
That was a lot of fun
That was
One of the last
Really good times I had
Playing with that band
Having a blast playing on stage
We ended up back in Indianapolis
And we were going to drive to Cleveland
And when
We left Indianapolis
We were about 30 miles away
And the van just
Crapped out, we didn't know
What it was
It turns out it was
The radiator had cracked
And we needed a new one and it was
Like
Friday afternoon when this happens
After we blooped the van and
Scrouged up enough money and borrowed money
To get it fixed
At that point everybody's credit cards
Were maxed out and we were just like
What was a successful tour up until
The breakdown
On the last day on the way to the last show
We were going home that night
We were sleeping our beds
At home in the morning
It cost us basically the rest of the money
That we had to get the van fixed
And that we can get ourselves home
A couple of us went out of pocket
For gas and tolls and whatever
Getting the way home
We played a show with Badmanners
At the studio at Webster Hall
And that was the last show
The set was really good
I was having a good time
And then something went sour
Throughout that night
Between myself and Jack
Which at this point
We were butting heads
Pretty often
We were butting heads by this point
I really don't even know what happened
Why he left
I still to this day don't know whether
If he quit or if he got fired
Or if
There were fights
And bullshit arguments
I'm a short tempered person
I was
I just didn't want to get into it with anybody anymore
I never did that whole tour
I kept my mouth shut
And I was really cool and level headed
And I let them do the fighting
Because I was
Having the time of my life
I was playing music every night
So we were with the breakdown in the end
It was like 70 days
I was away from my home for 70 days playing music
You know, I was in heaven
Like I said, Jack and I were butting heads
Matt and I were butting heads
I
Felt myself
Growing away
Shying away from
The band in general
I quit over Broken Heart
That's why I left the band
Jim was gone
Jim was not in the band anymore
And
You know
They asked me to let Maddie play
You know, give her a chance
I wasn't really for it
And
We did these shows and
I came home and
I was just unhappy
The fourth rights were
Many great things for a while
And everybody kind of
Always wanted to do different things
Everyone always had their own
Ideas and opinions
And it just kind of, it came to a point where
I think
People just had to go do those other things
If nobody else wanted
To jump on the bandwagon
Then it was time to do your own thing
I think that there's a lot of good things
Coming right now
From the Far East
It's a
Makeshift fourth rights
There's going to be just as much good things
Coming from them
Jimmy Doyle and the engineers
Are going to be doing some fun stuff
And Sammy Kay is out in California
Is doing a tour
And I think everybody
Everybody's
Figuring out where they're supposed to be
And the fourth rights was what they had to do
Then to figure that out
For a lot of these bands
To
Go out of their way
To find places on their own
To help not only their own bands
But their friends' bands
Is not something that's necessarily
Been done before here
It's always there in different ways
In DIY punk shows
And stuff, but as far as people playing
Skah, Rocksteady
And different variations
Of classic reggae music
I don't think you could find it
In the music of this year
When I'm down, I listen to this music
When I'm in a good mood, I listen to this music
When I've had a rough work
At my office job
And I have a really great office job
But it's still an office job
At the end of the week, it's like
There's a show I can go to
I've got a gig
And it's going to be okay
For years, there wasn't a scene
For this
There was something that was
And that was kind of really dying down
So for punk and reggae
To kind of come back and converge
In Brooklyn at this time, really meant a lot to me
Because there was many years where the people
That were teaching me about reggae were considerably older than me
And I was like this one punk rock kid
With my friends who was listening to this kind of music
And it was like, okay then
You know what I mean?
And then I had to wait like 10 years
To meet a bunch of other people
Everyone's desire to help everybody else out
It's not just about me
Getting to the next level
It's about getting this music to the next level
And getting this really great music
That we all care a lot about in front of more people
To see a bunch of bands
That have come up in the last X amount of years
That are doing this music
With a lot of heart and soul
Being a part of that community of musicians
Now is great
I was born and bred here in Brooklyn
And to me it's always been
I was never ever ever bored
Meaning there's just
All sorts of
People to look at
There's always something to hear
There's always something to do
It's just a big mixture of beautiful things
From the architecture
To the people coming from the West Indies
From the Irish neighborhoods
And the Italian neighborhoods
And it's not so big that you can't get around
So to me the beauty part
Of the whole Brooklyn scene
Is that if they want to be from here
They should take from here
Take
To me what Brooklyn's all about
Is just a big mix
Of wonderful things
If you stick with that and you put that in
You're good to go
I'm not originally a Brooklyn's
Lover
To me it's hard to get around Brooklyn
Brooklyn is dark and cold
And
Everybody's flocking to Brooklyn
As a new mecca
It's not really my style
But it's a lot of people
It's fulfilling the dream
Of what people need right now
And if that's what New York is doing for people
Then I support it because New York's always been a palette
It's always been a blank page
For people to create on
You know and far be it from me
To take any claim to this place
Because it's not
It's a lot bigger than me and it's a lot bigger than my friends
I think
The coolest part is that everybody's into
A little bit of a different thing
Everybody has their own style
All the DJ's I know
Everyone has their own style
All the vocalists I know
They all have their own style
And come together
Music
Music
Music
Music
Music
Music
Music
Music
