Welcome to the Declique show. Today, I'm going to welcome to my right Mrs. Mademoiselle
Mohamed Najao Ayratila, a French literature student and the militant of the Association
of Comorien Students of Paris XII, to my left, Ali Abdomdor-Roma, professor of letters to Paris
and, at the same time, a doctorate in modern letters, and to my left, Ania Mimchangama,
a French student of Comorien origin, and the president of the Association of Paris.
We're going to talk about the question of Comorien women, on the occasion of women's day.
I invited them to come and talk about this subject. We're going to talk about the struggle of women,
which is caused by time, when we talk about women. Why do we talk about women's day today?
And no, let's talk about men. So many questions we're going to talk about around this table.
Well, I'm going to start with Ania Mimchangama. Hello.
Hello.
Well, you are the president of the Paserelle. Is this association, by the way, the Paserelle association,
an association that talks about women?
Absolutely not. It's an association that talks about men in general,
men with women, men because there is masculine, there is no masculine man,
but it's everyone, a woman, a man.
It's an association that talks about the decentralized cooperation and the co-development of the Comorien.
Hello.
You are a French literature student.
Are you at the same time a militant of an association of Comorien students of Paris-12?
So, what does women's day tell you?
Hello.
Women's day makes you very happy because you are a militant of an association of Comorien students of Paris-12.
In this association, there are both men and women, I would say, and boys and girls because they are all students.
And women's day evokes a lot of things because without talking about details,
but it shows that women are interested in a lot of the world.
Alia Dumtahouma, a professor of letters.
Do you agree with Eirati Mwami-Dumlajao to talk about a women's day,
especially the exception or the appellation for this problem?
Very well.
I would like to thank you for inviting us to this exhibition to talk about women's day.
Although the women's day has already passed on March 8,
I would like to say that in the collective memory of everyone, women's day is now in good shape.
So today, if we talk about women's day, it's not bad.
It's a very good initiative, and it's a universal day.
There are not only women's day celebrations, but this next day, which is mondial,
and which has been celebrated with a lot of fasts.
So when we talk about women's day,
I can say that there is a lot of room,
contrary to what we think, in the social hierarchy.
Anya Mi Shankama, do you agree?
Because Ali Abdu evoked that at the international level, women are relegated to these requirements.
On the other hand, in Comorien, there is a speciality.
In Comorien, women are chosen and created.
So there is still a fairly important place of women in the Comorien space.
In Comorien, women are very protected.
The constitution in Comorien is not written or moral,
but it is made to protect women.
I don't think it's a framework that can be compared to other countries,
because we have some advantages as women in Comorien.
On the other hand, I come back to the women's day, which is not a women's day.
It is the day of the fight against violence made to women.
For me, personally, it is not a party day.
When we talk about violence, there is no party.
That is my point of view.
The fact that a woman is not beaten, it bothers me.
It is the day of the fight, and the fight means what it means.
Do the things that we talk about, when we talk about women's day,
are specific to violence made to women?
It seems to me that there are no other reasons.
But what are the issues that women are talking about?
What are the points that women are talking about when it comes to globalization,
when it comes to parity?
You are in politics, we are talking about parity.
We are talking about women's day.
It is in France, in any case.
Is the violence today not reduced to the French scale?
Of course it has been reduced, but there is not only the French scale,
or Comorien, it has been reduced.
But it remains not less that the farmer must fight twice if it is more
to reach the height of man, while there is no reason.
There is no reason to fight more than man.
This is where the problem is.
And then why celebrate women's day?
Is women the only right to have a single day in life?
In fact, one year?
And man has 364 days?
It bothers me too.
You agree with Ayamy that violence has diminished?
Is Comorien, where we speak, that women have an important place?
There is no violence made to women.
Is the fact that we do not speak enough justified?
There is no violence.
Personally, I do not know of women like Marienne who are violent.
I do not know of them personally.
In fact, violence would be the fact that she works a lot
to support the needs of the house, help the husband,
raise children, in a tough way, maybe.
Because I would take the example of women who are in the countryside
who must go to the countryside to grow men at the same time,
or carry heavy loads or stuff like that.
I would say that is violence.
But there is no violence appropriately said like women fighting.
I personally do not know of it.
And I will come back to what Ayamy just said.
I would not say that it is women's day.
Women do not do the end of violence,
it is women's day.
It is the fact that women vote now
which is more of a parity
because in companies or in studies,
because I am a student, there is no partiality.
Everything is seen at the same level.
And it is also the fact that women's day is not the violence.
It is rather to celebrate the emancipation of women, I think.
Ali Abdou, you are a teacher.
You have also been a teacher.
It seems to me that you know a little bit,
in any case the school systems, how it happens at school,
at school, I know it.
Even at the social level,
you know how it happens, the relationships between women.
Do you agree with the opinions of one and the other
that there is no violence at all?
Well, I am not of the life of my colleagues
who say that there is no violence at all.
Because in any case,
I think that violence is not particularly physical.
That is to say, women fight.
There is the verbal violence.
For example, when we say it,
when we mistreat it,
we do not feel the beating.
In the same way, in all the countries,
there are women who are mistreated,
who are violent,
and who are really relegated.
So this day,
I believe that even if the majority of women say
that it is the only day reserved for women,
the age of 604 are reserved for men,
it is not.
This day, as Ayatollah said earlier,
it is a day that is given
to give the letter of nobility to the emancipation of women.
Because it is not necessary to forget that women,
in several countries,
until recently,
did not have the right to vote.
There are many rights that are...
Bafoué.
The rights of women.
There is an example,
a concrete example,
because it concerns the right to vote of women in France,
it was in 1944.
Well after Turkey.
Yes, well after Turkey,
well after other countries.
While in France,
we often say that France is the country of men,
of all the rights,
while in 1944,
French women in France
had the right to vote in France.
So I also tell you that
at the European level,
at the international level,
there were also a lot of people
concerning women,
but it is not necessary to forget Angela Merkel in Germany.
It is not necessary to forget Michel Bachelet in Chile.
It is not necessary to forget Oli Belia,
who is an African president,
who is the president of Iberia.
In Pakistan, for example.
It is not necessary to forget Indira Gandhi,
who was unfortunately beaten to death recently.
So I can tell you that
women try to free themselves
from the oppression,
which means that
they are always religious to these complaints.
There is also Mr. Agama,
so women in politics,
in any case, the national gene,
is emancipating,
advancing on the political scene.
There is no, in any case,
my knowledge.
How to explain this?
Is it linked to the fact that
we are in front of a tradition
of a system
where women have no right
to participate
in political debates,
in village animations?
Is it that, despite all these
indicators, these obstacles,
these obstacles,
the equality of women,
do you still have to say
that women are protected?
Is it not because
there is a huge protection,
that women are not
able to
go to their place,
because it is still a place that comes back to them.
I think that, in this sense,
there is a work to do,
but there has been a presidential election
of a woman.
There has been a woman minister
who died.
And it was not a figuration
more than a candidate.
No, there are deputies.
The woman is emancipated
for whom she died.
It takes time,
even in France.
Even in France,
as they just said,
France is the country of human rights.
There is still a lack of inequality.
I am in politics,
so we will not go there.
There are places where it goes very well,
as there are places where it is difficult.
In commerce, it will come.
It takes its time, it makes its way.
But I agree
that women
are mistreated in other ways.
And that is everywhere too.
There is no way.
Even if there is inequality,
it is the violence made by women.
The lack of consideration
is the inequality made by women.
The obligation,
the woman who has to stay at home
to raise the children,
because she needs a salary
and an education,
so we will choose the woman rather than the man.
And that is not the way.
The woman in commerce,
she does a lot of work,
certainly,
but she is very material.
She has commerce.
There is still...
Yes, you have it.
You have to react.
I think
the fact that
commerce is a bit late,
if I may say so,
is the fact that
women in commerce
are very wise.
We are not
revolutionaries.
If we do it,
it is with softness.
That is why
we do not realize
that there is a revolution.
Because it is with softness.
Just on this side,
softness,
it is not the product
of a society
that is
the part of the power,
the symbolic power,
where regalia rest on the man.
Did you talk about
symbolic violence earlier?
Symbolic violence.
The shiro mania,
for example,
in some point of view,
it is given
to those who are the richest.
At the time,
the shiro mania,
distinctive signs
explain
the belonging of the nobility,
the aristocracy.
But on some side,
is it not necessarily the way
to dress, but at the same time
the fact that in the village,
because the power rests there,
the man, the woman,
does not have a word,
does not continue
or do not reinforce the domination
of the woman,
but these positions
are absent to be invisible
in the media space, in the religious space,
in the political space.
At school, there are inequalities.
How do you explain this phenomenon?
Yes, you must not forget that
Comox is a Muslim country,
so regia,
not only
the fact that it is Muslim,
but it is also a traditional country,
regia,
the great marriage,
especially in great Comox.
So what makes
women tend
to react in a sweet way.
But I think at that time,
it was a revolution.
With the advent of frame women,
intellectual women with diplomas,
lawyers,
I do not speak of post-political women.
Madame Situardat, for example,
and the Dohani, she was minister
at the time of Movedjoer,
this is a fact.
In the case of the students,
who have done their studies
until the doctorate, until the appointment
of the engineer, women.
And these women are currently working
at the public sector
also at the private sector.
And these women are
the ones who organized
the Women's Day on March 8th
in Moroni. I saw that on TV.
And there are women who have the voice,
who speak, and these women
broke the taboo,
and the women in Moroni did not
express herself publicly,
afraid that she might
show her right
by her neighbor,
by her...
the person from my village,
she spoke,
she spoke of this and that.
So it was a revolution.
So I can say that
currently, there is a loss of women.
So it is enough to put
the traditional and religious side
of women in the same way
as men, in the case of
the political and administrative
socialization,
in the same way as others.
Anéamy,
do you agree with Ali Abdu?
So, as much as women
invest a lot. You talked about
the city,
that's good.
But when we look at the profile
or the trajectory of these women,
who have invested a lot more,
they have multiplied the investment
a lot more than the men,
for which they have been rewarded
or maybe
named,
I don't know, but in any case
at the national level
as Moroni, when we look at it very well,
the women who are in front,
they are women who were very militant
of the youth, we have Viralia
Abu Dhabi, for example,
Orhan Bari, Anzali, etc.
Women, not like the others, who have
invested a lot,
for example, so these are women
who have invested multiple investments
to always show
that they are competent.
Are you
optimistic
when it comes to
the presence or the affirmation
of women as nothing in the political
or social space, in Comor?
Yes, I am, and especially
the day of the women, in Comor
because a Comorian woman
is a very active woman
and
she is militant, but not
militant at the level of the media
she is not mediatized
while she is the one who makes the country live
but I am optimistic in the sense
that now education takes its toll
because what has missed in Comor
according to
my point of view, is the lack of education
when you had to sacrifice
someone in the family
you took away the girl, you married her
but the boy continues his studies
and we know very well that when there is no
education, there is no evolution
so today we have the chance
to have young women like
Ania Mimchangama
who are there, who make their studies, who advance
so I have good hope.
Good hope, do you agree
with Ania Mimchangama
that the problem
is not
the way it is, but it is
the relationship to investment
maybe in the sense of priorities
when we also see women
in any case sending them, the mandates
are made, there are the quotations
that we know very well
that characterize the way
of living in Comorien in France
are reassured by women
and are reassured by women
so much that sometimes
the school investment is put aside
do not worry
I will not enter
I have no idea
of the quotations of women
of the school investment
of the school investment
but I would like to increase
a little because there is not
that the intellectual woman who emancipates
in Comorien, do not forget that
on the artistic side
there are more women
artists now who impose themselves
in Comorien, that is part of the emancipation
of women, you do not have to
see that the intellectuals
or those who were ministers
or those who are professors
but on the artistic side
the bamba-zaza
I do not know who
but I find that it is part of the emancipation
Yes, we have also seen
we have also seen a show
entitled
women courage in most of the time
we have talked about these women
women of menage and who wake up
at 5 o'clock and who get up
and who get up at 23 hours
in these women
in what they do because at the same time
it is true the education
of the children of the family
but the problem is that
they invest a lot
they have courage, they deserve it
but at the same time the education side
they invest
in things
in ceremonies, for example the grand marriage
they completely forget the child side
Aliabdou of Roma
but everyone has the courage to recognize
what the women of the world
and the pivot of the world society
the woman is the one who teaches the children
she is the one who prepares to eat
she is the one who does everything
she is the one who is growing
when we look for example in our campaigns
it is the woman who goes to the field
who takes care of what is fruit
who takes care of everything
who takes them to her head
to the house
and to complain
yes, once at the house
you have to prepare that
so we have also seen the example
of the broadcast that you wanted to talk about earlier
the broadcast that took place in Marseille
the women who get up at 4am
and who come to the house at 3am
all these women
they are women who invest
whether in France or in common
they are women who invest
but here I wanted to tell you
that there are a lot of people
who say that the woman is chosen
the woman is looked at
because we give her a lot of gold
but do not forget
it is a minimum percentage
which is
from gold
out of marriage
all the women in the world do not get married
so I also wanted
to raise the problem
that now the woman is invested
in the pivot sector
because there are the guys
from the company
who are
providing these women with money
these women go to Dubai
they go to China
they go to Singapore
they are everywhere
in Dubai, Tanzania
they do trade
and these women now
they are in the train
to spend some kind of night
while she was always there
behind her husband
she was always there
she was always there
so now there are women
who are independent
thanks to these trade
thanks to the micro-credit
of the guys from abroad
who are involved in this
so I believe that
the emancipation of the woman
needs to be put in this framework
Ali Amim Chagama
the emancipation of the woman
needs to be put in this framework
and the woman is forced to go
with the rupture
with the costume
because the costume is opposite
to this emancipation
that is to say the economic emancipation
there is the man who is responsible
and the woman who is responsible
for the work of the house
today we see women
who are going to Dubai
women who are going to Arsalam
women who emancipate
in a certain way
to explain themselves
with the traditions
Ali Amim Chagama
I can listen to the radio
when I go to my house
one in the morning
after meetings
I listened to an show
once, it was a woman
I believe
who was talking about her children
in Ortesse
there are three children
I believe four
and all of these children
are outside of one of these children
that is to say
her whole life
she was never at school
she worked
for the education of her children
so for me
emancipation doesn't date from today
it doesn't date from Ali Amim Chagama
because she joined the Socialist Party
because she was elected
because she became a municipal council
no no no
so we don't have it here
because we are here in the open
less there because there is no open
but I just wanted to frame it
and show that the Comorian woman
she is already emancipated
so it's true
protection is at a lesser level
you have to see
when I say protection
I say that the Comorian woman
she has a chance that other women don't
that is to say that she is often at home
when she is born
that is to say a Comorian woman
that is the protection that I am talking about
the Comorian woman is not beaten
why? because there is the tonton
there is the brother, there are all these looks
that make a man afraid
to attack his wife
but he will not be afraid of insult
he will not be afraid of abuse
he will not be afraid of other
aggressions that are much more serious
when we look at them
but that are not visible
these are less visible aggressions
but in general, is it necessary to denounce
these forms of symbolic violence?
yes
yes, you have to do it
by shouting
if it is possible
if it is possible
you have to denounce that
you have to denounce
that there are laws
that punish
these violence
the violence also
does not only depend on women
there are children
minors who suffer from violence
who suffer from
exceptional things
from adults
so all this
I believe that even the Comorian women
they have created associations
that are against these mistreatments
these children's violence
women are equal
so there are boys
who are trying to vote
in the parliament
they are not linked
to these abuse
and in the media
there is a young man
because we talk about the problem
violence
and all forms of violence
made to women, to children
is it enough to denounce
to stop these violence
there are measures
of volunteerism, of war
against the culprits
the families are also complex
there is the relation to honor
to the honor of the family
the shame, the indignity
to get rid of these
inhumable, inexplicable
families are
more particularly, women
are complex to these violence
are there measures
to go deeper
I would not talk about complex
for me there is no complexity
all mothers
suffer from this kind of thing
it is a country
where everything is managed by families
and even when
women would suffer
to see their children suffer
I regret
I will be a little
serious, I would say
there is a form of organized pedophilia
in our country, I am sorry
the word may be heavy
but when we see a family
who will take a 18-year-old child
even if she is older or 19
Maria with a 60-year-old man
I am sorry, but there is a form
there is a form
to see
I agree with her
because it is the fact of
to see fear, it is just enough
that there is one person who speaks
and everything will defile
it will defile everywhere
but there is the feeling of shame
also that there is a lot of future
but it would not be necessary
it would be a serious mistake
what is the measure to enter with this
it would be necessary to know
who is
we have to compensate
those who give
no
we have to do
campaigns
we have to do awareness campaigns
just like in other countries
we have to do campaigns
I do not think there is more violence
than yesterday
today we are talking about it
people know it, I am talking about France
I am convinced that in France
there is no more violence than yesterday
but today we know it
because the media is talking about it
because the TV is talking about it
it is a question of the campaign
sometimes when we do media
we do the campaign of things that we do not
and it awakens others
and it allows to be vigilant
go Abdul
to say
she says that violence
in France does not date from today
but today it is mediatized
so in commerce, violence is not mediatized
you have to mediate, the media is important
we have to mediate
because we are talking about commerce
but in joint, in Mayotte, in Moely
for example in Mayotte, women there
in addition, in much more the word
than in other cities
you talked earlier about
Zainab Dere
who organized the MPM
who did everything
who organized the Moroccan women
so in joint, the woman speaks
the right to speak
in short, in great commode
in great commode too
they are the big girls
who have really violent women
who pause to speak in public
but in our campaign
a woman who speaks in public
she is very far away
she is treated everything
in our way
because we are polite
in commode
and we have to write
it would be good
we have to explain
what is the skin of air
and what is the problem
to write, to denounce violence
to talk about writing
to talk about writing
to talk about writing
to talk about writing
to talk about writing
to talk about violence
at the young level
students, students too
do you think you are students?
don't they participate
to get grades
to high school, to college
to get diplomas
I will say there are violence
that is normally done
within school establishments
the violence is done between two actors
there is the victim
and the culprit
also, you are students
young people
don't they participate
to get grades
or diplomas?
yes, but for that we fight
I would not say it is a violence
because if we fight
we review
we go to class
to get a good grade
if everyone act like that, it would be great
and it is not a violence for me
Ali Abdou, the teachers are indexed
what do you think?
the teacher is
someone who is
shown by the artists
in songs, by everyone
but it is a reality?
no, it is not a reality
all teachers
can't put him in Spain
that is, it is a justice
there are serious teachers
not serious
there are serious intellectuals
there is corruption
but there is corruption too
so I can't say that all administrators
all those who work in the Ministry of Education
we didn't say that
because everyone says that the teachers
are not serious
so I would say that there are serious teachers
who do their work seriously
and
I am against those who do it
in a serious way
I would say that
compared to what I said earlier
it is violence
maybe the teachers play a role too
because if they talk about it in class
with the students
with the students
from there
it should work
because we have this image
of wisdom
exactly
the Minister of Foreign Affairs said that
this law was not
adopted
maybe even
when
what do you think?
does the law
really need a law
like the proposal of a teacher
or does it really need
a campaign to sensitize
education
tract
advertising
what are the issues really?
both are the same
I think that
a campaign needs to be sensitized
and a law to act
when things don't work
anyway
at some point you have to act
what doesn't work
it's the law
it's not a country
so you have to vote
you have to adopt the law
and you have to do the sensitization
besides all the achievements that women have had
whether it's in the commons or elsewhere
they have had it because they have re-sold their rights
so the campaigns are useful
Ali Abdul
I know the Ministry of Foreign Affairs
but
the fact is
it's not really
to vote for a law
but you also have to
apply it
because there are a lot of laws that are voted
that go against the administrations
and that are not applied
so I think
the best is to apply it
on the field
last word
I would say
that if the law
was not voted
it's because
citizens like Morien
don't agree on the fact that
there is a violence against children
you have to
make them see
the violence is not recognized
it's not recognized
that's why it's not voted
it's not recognized but the violence exists
it's not recognized
it's the words of the law
and the words that open
another debate
why women politicians
don't want to recognize
that there is a violence
it's their interest
which the debate is open
we will talk about it in the next show
thank you
you
