Well the Occidental Farmers Market is on if you want to catch the last hour or so
and enjoy the wonderful fresh produce and prepared foods that are available
right there and then in fact coming up in a few minutes we'll be talking about
some of those very products that are on for sale. If you haven't noticed a
couple of years ago a new law came in allowing home kitchens to cook and
prepare food for sale rather than in a commercial kitchen. So I'll be speaking
with Juliet van Solen from the UC Cooperative Extension and she is a food
systems advisor. I think is that correct Julia, the appropriate name for you?
Correct, yes. Okay and so we'll be finding out about this law and how it's
doing, what its impact is and things like that and then about halfway through
Cheryl Johnson will be calling and she is with CJ Sweet and Savory Cobblers. They
make her, that's funny, in England Cobblers means something else but anyway
she makes wonderful pies and she's going to be telling us her experience of
being a licensed cottage food operator so you'll be able to get an
idea from a couple of sides about how this is working. My guest tonight Julia
van Solen, hi Julia. Good evening, hello. Hi and thank you so much for coming in
all the way to the studio here and enjoying a bit of the occidental flavor.
I'm very happy to be here, thank you for having me. Well great and it's very
relevant for as it's the market, occidental market, farmer's market tonight.
Your work is really with the cottage food operations. It's a new thing,
only started a couple years ago, maybe you can tell us about where it started
and why we're doing it. Sure, so I'd be happy to. So cottage foods are the
result of a new California law. It was AB 1660 or the California Homemade Food Act
and it went into law in January 2013 and so now it's now legal to make homemade
foods for sale in your home kitchen and to prepare them in your home kitchen and
then sell them to the public which up until this law that wasn't possible in
California. So you had to have any preparations for sale had to be in a
commercial kitchen, licensed kitchen? Correctly, correct. It had to be in a
commercial licensed kitchen which meant that the scale of being able to start a
food business had to be a little larger and a little bit more complex and
costly. So this new law went into effect and allows people to make food in their
home kitchen and it's only specific foods so what they call potentially
non-hazardous foods. In other words, shelf-stable foods that don't need
refrigeration and within that list of shelf-stable foods there's a very
specific list of approved foods for California cottage food operations. This
is a state law, wasn't it? Correct, it was a state law and so it was enacted
across California and then it's put into place at the local county level. So
each county now in the Environmental Health Department has charge of helping
local cottage food operators become registered or permitted to be able to
operate cottage food businesses in home kitchens and they're also in charge with
doing home inspections when that's needed for a cottage food operation and
also monitoring the licensing process and making sure that everyone's in
compliance with the new law. Interesting, now how did this come about? Obviously
any law takes years usually to come to fruition so what sort of effort and
background energy caused that to happen? Yeah, well I think there's a growing
interest and attention to creating a local food economy and to enable people
to manufacture food locally to grow and produce their own food and so this law
was really inspired out of that movement across California. There's similar
cottage food laws in other states and so this particular one had a goal to
increase local economic development to help improve access to healthy food and
reduce childhood obesity and to spur local micro businesses that can then
grow and scale up into other kinds of food businesses using commercial
kitchens at the next scale. So imagine it must have been very frustrating over
these years people who wanted to do these real basic businesses but yet were
totally constrained by that law. Yeah, very correct. So one of the star
stories that came out of the movement to get this law into place was a
particular person who made French bread in his home kitchen and was having a
really successful French bread company and then got shut down because it
wasn't in compliance with the local health regulations and people saw that as
a real bad situation because it was a very successful business, a delicious
product contributing to the local food economy and really wanted to see a way
to make businesses like that possible and so that story I'm sure was repeated
throughout the state in different scenarios and now this law enables many
of those people to make these products at their home to start a small business
and test the waters or really see what works for them and their family and
their business idea. Yeah, without having a huge expenditure at the beginning to
start it. Correct. So in terms of expenses there are annual registration and
permitting processes and depending on what kind of cottage food the operation
the person is interested in there's two kinds of categories. There's a class A
permit or a registration and a class B permit so the class A is $139 per year
and the class B permit is $347 per year so in that way the entry cost in
order to get the registration or the permit is fairly affordable and the
business the cottage food operation according to the letter of the law is
allowed to make a gross revenues of up to $50,000 per year. So there is
ultimately a cap if the business is hugely and wildly successful then that's
really an indication that they've outgrown this particular law and are
ready to scale up to the next set of opportunities in a commercial kitchen.
Oh neat, that's a good way of looking at it that it's there's a smooth
transition you create that transition space. Correct and so because these are
operated in home businesses it's really saying you know if you're making
millions of dollars out of your home kitchen maybe the sewer isn't set up for
that maybe your driveway and your home street is not set up for that level of
economics and business operations and so these are really for micro businesses
based out of the home and then up to $50,000 gross revenue. Obviously that's
linked in with regular business licenses and all that that's all part of it as
well. Correct so great question the cottage food law is a law that's under
the California Department of Public Health and it's enforced locally at the
Environmental Health Department in the County of Sonoma and so it doesn't
trump or supersede other regulations like having a business license or
following the local land use codes that are applicable to wherever the home is.
People advise that people have insurance and active website and a safe
kitchen the proper tools and so this law doesn't negate any of those other best
practices for local businesses. It's been about a year and a half or so and how's
the out obviously it's there's a lot of people either doing it or want to do it
how's the outreach for that how are you getting to people? Yeah so the state
passed this law but didn't provide a lot of funding for educating the general
public about the new law or for having the county educate their local
population about the new law and so that's actually brings me to how I
became involved in and interested in cottage foods. I helped run a training
series across California through UC Cooperative Extension to train small
scale food businesses in the cottage food law and the opportunity we train
them in business practice as well as in food safety and so that was a wonderful
start for getting a whole range of people across California trained and ready
for cottage food operations. In addition there's a number of really helpful
websites and other educational information online and then each county
has all of the necessary information in terms of how to apply what can be
expected from being a cottage food operation frequently asked questions
and so there's a lot of information online but I would say that generally the
public hasn't isn't well aware and knowledgeable about this new opportunity
because it's still still fresh and still a little unknown and misunderstood as
well. Yeah imagine obviously there must be any new laws there's apprehension
obviously what's it gonna do is they're gonna you know shut me down is gonna make
it impossible that must be yeah how you get to reached people and calm them
about that must be something to join basically to join in. Yeah I think the
most important thing is to start having those cottage food operations that now
have been in business for a year or two to even up to two and a half years start
spreading the word about what's worked for them what were their challenges did
they run into any obstacles that weren't expected and how did they overcome
those obstacles so I'm really excited that we'll have another guest joining us
a little later current cottage food operator so we can learn from her the
kinds of experiences she's faced as a cottage food operator. I can say one
challenge that's very common is that the list of foods that are cottage food
approved for the state of California is fairly restrictive and so not every
product that someone might want to make in their home kitchen for sale is
included in that list. So right does that obviously equate with the class A and
class B is that the that's slightly different and I can get into that in
just a moment in terms of the list of approved foods those that's a list that
the state made that are based on what they call non-potentially hazardous
foods so these shelf stable foods so what that means is that there can't be
any dairy products like cream fillings or custards because that would need
refrigeration there can't be any meat products or fresh fruits or vegetables
that are raw everything has to be cooked and processed or dried in some kind of
way in which it's shelf stable and doesn't need refrigeration. Just as one
example a very popular food item right now here are pickles and sauerkraut and
fermented foods and that's a huge trend locally and nationally as well and this
particular lot unfortunately doesn't cover fermented foods because they do
require for refrigeration and are deemed a little bit more risky than these
shelf-stable foods that are on this approved list. So it'd be like yoghurt
and kefir things like that would. Correct would not be allowed under this law. So
there are some restrictions that are meant to protect public health but also
are a little bit unfortunate in terms of limiting the breadth and depth of this
law and allowing local food businesses. Is it something they're looking at maybe
in the future what see how this works and this step to to expand it to some of
the others at some later date? Yeah so when the law first rolled out they had a
fairly short list of approved foods and within six months to a year that list
got a little longer based on public comment and demand and so hopefully with
time that list will become more and more expansive but ultimately because of the
context that these food businesses are operating in home kitchens there's still
going to be some kind of cautious restriction to ensure that public
health is safe. So how would they would one person say I want to put you know
honey forward does it take a hundred people to ask for it or one person to
get it on the list how is that sorted? Well luckily honey is on the approved list of
cottage food so you'd be safe in that scenario. So some examples were popcorn
balls come to mind. Apparently popcorn balls weren't on the first on the
approved list and they seemed very safe very low risk because they're self-stable.
Apparently enough people love popcorn balls enough and advocated for these
that it got up put on the approved list. I don't remember the exact order of what
went on the list and how it grew but I think another example is seasoning
salts. So you know salts that you would maybe add to a meal or marinate
something in or finishing salts are very popular right now and they weren't on
the list but they're very safe. It's a little bit of herbs combined with salt
and so those were recently added. Now obviously it's state but goes county by
county can it change within the counties what they approve or don't approve or
the process? Yes so the list of approved foods is set at the state level so the
county can't make that more expansive or more restrictive for that matter. What
they can do is they can help support these local food businesses by decreasing
the cost of the registration or the permit or if they're not hugely
supportive or don't have the workforce within the county to support this kind
of development then other counties may choose to make that more expensive. So
the cost of the permit or registration is set county by county and it's often a
good indication of the county's goals in this area if it's very expensive or
less expensive and Sonoma County is a very typical range compared to other
counties there's some that are up closer to a thousand dollars to get
permitted and there are some counties that are free. So it really does range
and here in Sonoma County we are lucky to have a county that's very supportive
and excited about these particular food businesses. Yeah and wants to encourage
it indeed. Julia how did you get into this line of work? What's your background
and inspiration to to reach this? Yes so as you mentioned I am a food systems
advisor with UC Cooperative Extension. So I work for the University of
California but I'm based here locally in Sonoma County and the North Bay to help
connect the University of California with our local community. So in my role as a
food systems advisor I help connect local farmers with local consumers and help
increase access to fresh locally grown food and I'm really interested in the
food system as a whole from farm to fork and everything in between. So that's how
I got inspired and interested in cottage foods as a way to help local farmers be
more economically viable and as a way to help support the development of our
local food economy. Well that's great and to see it with your own it's not just
some dispassionate thing in faraway place it's literally around you. Yes it's
right here in our county and the cottage food law and more broadly the
development of the local food system is happening right here before our eyes. This
evening we're right around the corner from the farmers market and that's a
wonderful example of the local food system thriving and being very vibrant.
So my role in Cooperative Extension is to support that and to help it build it
and foster it as well as to research it and share best practices with the
community. Now last year you did a series of workshops are they going to be
more planned to help people get in compliance? Yes so I was part of a
training team across the University of California and the lead researchers named
Dr. Shermaine Hardesty and she's with UC Davis and she led a group of
Cooperative Extension advisors and other consultants to put on a training series
across California to help inspire and get ready for business new or potential
cottage food operators. A result of that training series is a website that is
live and holds all of the training materials that we created and that can
be accessed at ucanr.edu slash sites slash cottage foods or just by
googling ucanr cottage foods and it'll be the top hit and so that website is up
and live with all of our training materials and then after that initial
grant that funded all of that work I'd be very happy to continue with a training
series if there's continued demand and interest on the part of the public and
so I think that got everyone started in the right direction and then I'm sure
we'll need to continue it going down the road as new businesses get inspired to
try this out. It is the law so if people don't comply with the law obviously
there's usually penalties and things like that what is the the dark side of the
law? Yeah so I haven't heard of any dark side yet just surfacing so that's a
huge relief that largely overwhelmingly this law has been very successful so in
the case of cottage food operation being out of compliance this is very
hypothetical because I haven't heard very many people running into this scenario
but say someone did get sick or even the item that they purchased wasn't to their
expectations they could potentially file a complaint with the Department of
Environmental Health then the county would investigate that so they might
make a home inspection or test the taste the product look into it but it would be
really based on a reactionary complaint and not necessarily out enforcing the
law because they have a small team to do this and luckily like I said there
haven't been any problems that I'm aware of I think people have been really
thrilled with the opportunity and it's been overwhelmingly successful here in
Sonoma County but just sort of broadly across California. I should in a moment
return back to the difference between the class A and the class B. The primary
difference between the class A and the class B is that one involves a home
inspection by the Environmental Health Department so they actually enter the
home and check out the kitchen and the other one is a self-certification
process so there's a level of hands-on in one and a little bit more that the
environmental health trusts the cottage food operator to self-certify and say
that this is they follow these practices so going back to your questions
about the issue of if someone wasn't in compliance it would be more obvious in a
class B permit than in a class A permit. The other difference between so basically
you're paying more to well still comply but to have a greater level of
inspection and accountability. So the other aspect that's really important to
note between those two is that the class A registration it only allows direct
sales so what I mean by that is I as a cottage food operator make the food and
then I give it directly to you you pay me I hand you the product and we have a
face-to-face exchange in person that can be at my home kitchen it could be here
at the farmers market could be at a local fair but we see each other and we
directly exchange the money for the product in a class B permit that's a
permit instead of the first ones a registration in the class B permit it
allows indirect sales so I make the food in my home kitchen I sell it to a
restaurant and then the restaurant sells it to you so there's an indirect
exchange there in the money and the product or I make it in my home kitchen
I sell it to a grocery store and then you go to the grocery store and buy it
there is there still that 50,000 limit and there's still a $50,000 limit for
regardless of if it's class A or class B we have Cheryl Johnson here on the phone
hi Cheryl hi hello how are you guys this evening hi Julia hi Cheryl nice to be
speaking with you it's a pleasure thank you and tell us your local small
business yes well we're C-based sweet and savory cow lords we are small batch
bakery and now we have grown to the point where we're operating out of the
rental parking your center we leave our space out of a commercial space now
because we've outgrown our home kitchen but the cottage food experience was
amazing my son has special needs so mom needed the free time to be able to be
there for him and this was actually an idea I plan to do once I retire but
being that I needed that freedom I started it right away and the process was
fairly easy I really appreciated the assistance that I obtained from the
health department they really made it easy I was really able to ask all the
questions I needed I mean down to the labeling what I needed on there what you
know it wasn't so much for me which product because I did my homework there
would be allowable under the cottage food act it was more of giving my labeling
right you know what ingredients should be listed for safety reasons it was
amazing but it was almost seamless for me it was an amazing experience if I could
say anything it was fantastic and my business has definitely grown due to
that well so having that imprimatur of being licensed really really makes a
difference absolutely and you know you have to within three months take a food
safety course and so but then your food safety certified I did very well it
shows that I really love food but again the course was really fun they make it
fun they make you almost want to learn how to prepare food and make sure you're
storing things right you know to this day I you know I keep the beef at the
bottom you know chicken you know it's just it's amazing you really learn a
lot if you're naive in the food world you know you know that you could always
call and ask questions with the course with the food safety course they made
sure that during the process during the class that it it was never a problem to
backtrack she wanted to make sure that you see it I just couldn't believe that
it wasn't more known about you know I had been following the law since 2012
because I was thinking okay if Ganon seems become more heavier will this be
an availability for me and sure enough you know he signed the bill and here we
are today so I think it's a great thing you know I also take great private
working with local vendors shown farm was really there in 4thville was one of
the first farms to really support me and if it wasn't for them if it wasn't for
Andy Frodo's there were really the ones who told me you could do this this is
something that we're interested in you know are you licensed that you know how
do you feel about getting started like I'm right I just want to make sure you
guys are ready for me but it's been amazing so that's nice so a lot of
support then from all all the branches that you have to deal with absolutely
they really make it easy that sounds good Julia it's a wonderful story to hear
I'm so glad glad to hear that it's been a positive experience so I'm curious if
you could give a little bit of background when you were a cottage food
operator before you scaled up to this next level it sounds like you were a
class B operator and that you could sell indirectly to Andy's produce or to
perhaps other markets is that correct definitely I also am a woman's
initiative of graduate of San Francisco which is why I felt the positive even
venturing into the cottage food world you know of course we had to do we ended
up with amazing business plans as graduates and one of the first thing
that I wanted to focus on was licensing you know making sure that I'm doing
everything correctly I had an opportunity to work with an aunt when I was
younger and be self-employed so I kind of had the savvy innocence to go out and
do it but I wanted to make sure I was doing things correctly you started
obviously just when you initially started your business it literally was
from scratch and I used to experiment on my friends and family a lot until my
boss noticed this she said hey you know you can bring one in like well you know
sure you know this is a good outlet you know and Julia pointed out and that you
know you can't really do there's only certain products that you could provide
out of your home I remember thinking man this is you know because I'm sweet and
savory so I had to wait to introduce the savory toddlers but baking seasonally
and having an opportunity to you know work with local vendors on the seasonal
fruit was amazing I mean it just kind of went hand-in-hand with each other yeah
so I think that's a really subtle difference the sweet and the savory
codder cobblers and I'm wondering if you can for the listeners expand a little
bit more in terms of the sweet cobblers and those why those were allowed and
the savory cobblers and why those were allowed so the savory toddlers are what
they call a it's on the higher level a danger dangerous food list so meat
dairy anything like that is not allowed under the cottage food box so on the
savory end of things that can be introduced right away so I focus more
on the fruit which was easy because I do you know people normally know cobblers
as fruit not so much on the savory end so the reason why there's a difference
not only a and b but why you're not allowed to prepare these things out of
your home is because of the risk factor of the meat of the dairy that can go
wrong and make people sick if you don't practice package it properly like I had
to deal with the state on packaging you know I had to go and get my UPC labeling
but you know there's a whole process to it but I advise to take the opportunity
to at least try it there's so many more products that's available now under the
college student laws my girlfriend was just talking to me about doing jam I
said I think that's licensed under that's definitely an opportunity for you but
you need to look into it look into the licensing and in your county I was
explaining to you that I just moved to Lake County so as a backup I think I
might even look into working with our community center here as well as saying
remaining in runner park because that's that's my heart that's where I found it
that's where I started oh that's beautiful it's such a wonderful positive
experience for you know really often sometimes it can be a bit difficult having
the government come in you know put these regulations on us I think we're
blessed in the sense that this is something that's fairly new but that
they're willing to kind of go back and forth with you to make sure that you're
on the same page together because I mean when you do when you walk into the
health department and you get that package it's a little donny but I sat
right there and made sure that if I had questions I looked to the clerk and
Christine was amazing she was a phone call away you know my main thing was
making sure that once I felt this application out that we would be
free and clear and it was amazing like my licensing was there within I think
less than a month they really made it easy and I really appreciated that
especially not knowing if the business is going to be a success you know
everything was funded out of my own pocket I didn't go for funding until you
know I superseded the point where I could work out of my home anymore you know
it is it was amazing it was just really nice to have people who are
informative but also were willing to help you pursue your dream from starting
just that startup to literally making that leap to a commercial size how long
did that take for you show I mean literally or not I made a goal to try
to have 10 wholesalers within a year I think I was tapping on that door within
like six months a year and six months after I started so I you know it's like
okay here it is I'm doing all this honey can you can you prep for me this is
amazing this is really taking off like people really appreciate what we're
trying to do and my mom's from the south you know we were raised to cook at home
you know her hot her on had a huge garden and we would go every Saturday to pick
from the garden and she also had an orchard we were blessed in that sense but
my mom would always make dessert and always make Sunday dinner and my favorite
dessert was cobbler like sitting there watching her make the crust from scratch
you know going to three different stores for product it was just amazing I
really fell in love with baking and then of course my dad's culinary train so you
have the you know skill and technique to kind of back you with your passion but
watching my mom is we're truly where I fell in love with baking and I'm just so
glad that I had the opportunity to pursue my dream and that the county was
right there hand-in-hand with me it was it was truly amazing so yeah so really
there's something it was in your heritage there and in your family and you
took you yourself took a side to it but have come back to it absolutely I think
things line up for a reason I'm just glad that I'm able to pursue my passion
now that I have relocated to Lake County I'm working with a lot of the pair
of vendors here I might continue to be able to work with a lot of the local
vendors there in Sonoma County like I stated before Petaluma Creamery is who
I sourced my butter with I mean it's just like walking into a family owned
business you feel so welcome and that's what I love about our county we're so
blessed to have that atmosphere here yeah yeah people aren't fighting you to get
things done yeah absolutely pushing you and guiding you in the right direction
yeah beautiful why what a what a positive experience shell you've had you
know it was not without its challenges on auto you know I outgrew my own pocket
books after my first year you know I had to seek financing and I turned to
working solutions out of Sam Rafell for that and again the women's initiative
became debunked unfortunately right after I graduated so you know one of the
guarantees was that they would be able to help fund you as a graduate if your
business did go off go in that direction and unfortunately that force wasn't
there but working solutions sort of picked up where they left me and it was
amazing it was almost like unbelievable blessing for sure oh beautiful
and I mean Julia you've had some more of those results you've heard from yeah
yeah Cheryl's story sounds like a wonderful success and I'm very pleased
to hear that it sounds like you had just the right resources at the right time
to support and it also I really love the story you were telling about how this
business got inspired from your own home and your own family traditions and it
made me reflect back on just one more little detail about the law that it
allows people to employ their own family members in this and so I mean I have
planned for all my younger guys okay guys who's running the farmers market
next year I think we're almost there you know it's such I'm such a hands-on you
know I do all my own tasting I'm still baiting on my own stuff like you know
it's a 14-hour shift but I love what I do I love it Julia and I love that
there's people out there like you willing to step in and kind of guide
people like us to be able to not only go about doing what we love but make sure
we're doing it correctly right so the other thing that I love from your story
is just this example of a local food business creating ripple effects through
the whole community so you can employ your family members or maybe some other
employees down the road you're buying from local farmers using products that
are produced locally whether that's apples or pears yes and be selling to
locally owned grocers so in that way the positive effects of this little to
business really create ripples out into the broader community so this is a
really wonderful example that way too and yeah please tell us how people can
contact you Cheryl and where you where they can get your glorious pies and
cobbles definitely you can always order online
www.cjstoblers.com.com feel free to reach me directly or email
cobblerlady at cjstoblers.com definitely if you guys have any questions or I
love to give advice I love to help wherever I can so it's an honor thank
you are not over having me on and Julia thanks again please feel free to reach
out if you have any further questions I would love to work with you as well I
I want to echo that too I think that we could have a wonderful little training
team together if we partnered up so I'll be sure to follow up not only to order a
pie but to chat with you more I love it and on Facebook guys cobbler lady the
only one and only you guys have a great evening it was a pleasure thank you so
much Cheryl for calling in my pleasure have a good night guys good night
perfect bye it was wonderful to have a Cheryl on and to see that side of the
law working yes so it was wonderful to hear from Cheryl she clearly had a very
positive wonderful supportive experience which is such a nice story to hear I
know that other people sometimes run into roadblocks whether that's the cost of a
permit or a registration when they're a little business and haven't tested their
idea yet so they might not be willing to take that leap or whether it's that
they're not sure what kind of business and liability insurance they should get
or how to build a website what have you many people experience bumps along the
road and so I really encourage folks to to take the leap and give it a try but
also to go with persistence and a little bit of caution because it's not
always as smooth as she experienced and I'm sure she wasn't telling us all the
little challenging details because I'm sure they were there exactly but it well
obviously it's the law so people if you want to do that type of business people
have to do that to comply exactly so the requirements of the law are very
straightforward and clearly laid out on the Sonoma County Environmental Health
website and again you can just look up cottage food law for California and
go directly to Sonoma County in order to find the permit or the registration in
order to apply but those details are very very clear it's more the broader
details like Cheryl mentioned having a business plan which is a really wonderful
thing if you're planning to start a food business but not everyone starts with a
business plan so that's something that I would recommend that she was really
smart and savvy to start her business with that up front
yeah because obviously you can start with one pot and one stirring spoon and go
from there but sometimes yeah you need some people work before that point
exactly she had a really clear business concept sounds like she probably had
some tried-and-tru recipes and so she was probably starting on a really solid
foundation and I think this people often come to a cottage food
operation from one perspective or the other one they might want to be a small
business owner and then they try out recipes that will help them eat that
goal or two they might have recipes that their family and friends absolutely
love and say you've got to turn this into a business and so then they start
with the recipe and they turn that into a business and I think people approach
cottage foods from either direction interesting yeah we want Sonoma County
to be in the forefront of this absolutely so I think there's definitely
room for growth right now it currently permitted and registered in the county
there's a little over 40 cottage food operators so clearly it's a popular and
that's working well but there's huge room for growth right and so I think of the
40 plus cottage food operators shows that 40 people right now are making a
wonderful side business or a primary business out of this opportunity but
with more of this information being shared and spread from people then more
and more cottage food operators can pop up over time right so it's basically
getting people in from out of the cold realize it's not a big draconian thing
and they can be legal and really have a good thing going absolutely yes well
beautiful thank you Julia Julia van Solen and what an interesting thing this
is cottage food operations and well let's keep we'll keep in touch and I
want to see what's happening and we'll keep any new developments in it as well
I look forward to keeping in touch and happy to be on the show to talk about
cottage foods thank you so much for having me thank you Julia
you
