When will I be good enough to be all I want to be?
When will I be good enough to live my life and be free?
When will I dance till the morning lights up my day?
We've come specifically to Melbourne to see and connect with Dr Joe Tushy.
And what I feel is protection.
I feel from this man, protection is the most important thing for you personally.
And because of that you have built this organisation and headed this organisation for 18 years.
And what I would love to know firstly is why have you spent a large chunk of your life protecting children?
Well that's a good question David. I think that children deserve protection.
That deep down there's a small child in all of us that would like to be protected and would like to be safe.
And I think that unless we're able to as a community embrace children and ensure their protection,
we're not giving them the kind of platform, the environment from which to grow,
into healthy adults, into adults that can show compassion.
So the problems that we as a community face can arise out of children
whose experience of their early life isn't positive. It's harmful, it's abusive, it's disrespectful.
And I think if we don't get to the heart of being able to engage a community to support children more in that way,
then we're making problems for ourselves.
True. Have you had similar feelings in your life?
For me I've had a pretty privileged life. You can see from my surname I've come from an Italian background.
It's a typical Italian family with lots of cousins and lots of aunts and uncles.
Childhood is a very precious time in our family and it's a time that everyone celebrates
and children take sort of a place of honour really in the family life cycle.
So being raised to experience family in a very positive and very dynamic way
has been part of why I think I'm the way that I am with kids today.
So you had a beautiful childhood?
Yeah, I mean pretty much in general. It was a childhood that had lots of food.
As you would imagine from a chance.
I love food.
It's a childhood that had a lot of love. It's a childhood that also had some experiences of family
who had to give up things when they migrated out to Australia and their family that lost relationships.
So I know the importance of relationships and what it means to children to have solid ones
but also to be part of a family where loss is an everyday kind of experience as well.
So you lost some sort of connections with your family, is that correct?
Well my mum and dad would have lost their connection to their family back in Italy
and they carry that with them. They carry that with them today.
Not being able to see their brothers or sisters not being there in Italy
when their mums and dads died, those sorts of experiences.
I think that shapes who they are as parents and probably shapes who we were as children for them.
So why did they choose to come to Australia and do that then?
It's a long story I think but one of my uncles was captured as a prisoner of war fighting for the Italian army
and he was billeted out here in Australia during the Second World War.
He was a prisoner of war and interned here in Australia
and then after the war was over stayed on with the family that he lived with
and decided that this was the place to establish a new part of his life
and he came out and brought his wife and child who happened to be my mum's sister
and that's how we ended up here.
So do you believe that their separation from their family has impacted on you?
I think so. I think it's a set of stories that are around in my family's life.
It's certainly part of the experience as I was growing up
was that everything that was left behind and what that meant
and how do you carry that forward into their life here in Australia
they recreated it as much as they could as Italians and migrants do wherever they go
so my family recreated a sense of family here to make up for the people that they had to leave behind.
Great, so do you have great Italian meals here?
Fantastic Italian meals, food and family and children
and my kids now want to learn how to cook Italian food
and my daughter finished the 40 hour famine for World Vision just yesterday
so she did the 40 hour famine which is where kids give up something
sometimes it's food, sometimes it's Facebook, whatever they decide they're going to give up for 40 hours
and they get sponsored to help children in other parts of the world through World Vision
and so she'd go up food this year and at the end of her 40 hours of famine
the only place she wanted to go was to Nana's house, my mum's house to eat past us
that's how important food and family is.
Isn't it? It's so important food, wine, family around a big table.
Absolutely. So what is healing to you Joe?
Healing is being able to, well I think for children, healing is being able to feel comfort when you're feeling distressed
I think healing is being able to know and expect that adults around you will be reliable
that they will give you something that you feel is missing in your life as you're growing up.
It's about establishing and creating and supporting relationships around children that make up for
what they've been hurt around or what they've missed out on.
Healing for children after trauma is really a set of experiences that compensate for what has happened to them.
My belief is that if trauma for children is in interpersonal relationships
it generally occurs in the relationships around them
then that's where the site of healing is also that it's in those relationships around kids
that healing and transformation can occur.
You work with parents, you've worked with hundreds of thousands of parents
and impacted 40,000 children, which is sensational numbers.
So when the abuse is within the family, how do you tackle that?
Well we need to make sure that children are safe and sometimes they can't stay within their own family
in order for that safety to be assured.
So in those circumstances we're working with relationships that children have with their extended family
if that's possible or as they move into foster families or into other kind of accommodation options
then the experience of healing comes in the relationships that are significant to those children around them.
So sometimes it's schools that can take on board and take on the responsibility of generating relationships
that are trusting and reliable and can help with the transformation that children need.
Other times it's the person who is their football coach
or who's their cricket coach or their netball coach who can take on that.
Kids want to know that somebody knows them from the inside out.
That's what a relationship means to a child.
You don't need to tell somebody what you need.
That person, that adult, knows.
When they're young, when children are young,
mums know the different kinds of crying and what that crying means.
So do dads. They know that if there's a different cry that a baby will have
and express when they're hungry, compared to when they're tired, compared to when they're bored and want some stimulation.
And as they get older, children need that in relationships.
They need to be known from the inside out.
I think violence and stress and neglect can often get in the way of children experiencing that knowingness,
that sense that someone else can feel and empathize and understand what they need.
And what we have to do to help heal, if you like, is generate that knowingness in adults,
in other adults around children, not necessarily the adults that have hurt them.
What is that inside? What is it inside a child?
What is inside you that you need as a child?
What you need is for someone to give you a cuddle when you want a cuddle.
It's to give you a rub on the shoulder or a pat on the head or a kiss.
For someone to say that looks all. For someone to know that your need, that what it is that you need as a child,
is legitimate and it's valued and it's acknowledged.
So if I'm angry or if I'm upset or if I'm sad, if I'm happy,
as a child I want someone to see that and acknowledge it and reflect it back in me.
They're the sorts of things that kids need and want as they're growing older.
That's the heart of what interpersonal relationships are for children.
To be recognized for what they're feeling and what they're experiencing in their life.
And not for the adults' gender to take priority in that relationship.
For the adults' gender to supersede what the child needs.
And unfortunately in abuse and violence that's what happens.
So what is that need? What is the feeling that goes with those circumstances?
Somebody patting you on the back, somebody kissing you, somebody recognizing you.
What's the feeling for the child?
Well for them, I talk about it as closing a loop.
That children have a need for affirmation as an example.
So they have a need for affirmation and when they experience that need,
then the patting on the head or someone saying that was well done
or somebody saying I noticed you playing basketball really well.
That need in that moment gets, the loop of that need gets closed.
If that loop remains open then children will be looking for that
and will continue to organize themselves to have that need met.
And if that need never gets met it becomes unfinished business for a child.
And it stays within them.
Where does it stay?
It stays in their heart, they feel it in their various parts of their body.
They'll feel it when they release the tension in their muscles.
That's the sort of experience that kids have.
So the boundaries get broken and my boundaries got broken.
Actually what it's given me is this great opportunity to live life, to love
and because of that brokenness, it's my greatest gift.
And we find around the world that people are actually saying wouldn't change my life
even with the abuse, with whatever trauma we suffered.
We've all experienced traumas.
It's not frightened, nothing frightens me because I've experienced what I have.
Not in spite, if only I hadn't been abused.
If only, it's a new message.
It's a message of actually we're all world healers.
We're all here on a journey to go from brokenness to trauma to triumph.
So it's a new message and I think that's very important to get out there to people to understand.
This is what we're finding universally.
People are about to take the life a lady interviewed two weeks ago, she was going to take a life.
Now she realizes that she's a really strong woman.
She realizes that the love is there, that love and strength and power is there with the brokenness of our lives.
And once we release this emotion, once I've released this emotion, then magic is happening.
Because I trust in love now.
I didn't.
But I've come, I trust in love for me.
It's about that vibration of love that we give.
And because of my experiences, I am fearless now.
And it's such a message that I want to share with the world because it's new.
It's different.
Because the victim is not something that I don't like labels.
And I think I feel that with this movement that we're taking forward that people are really going to see life in a new way.
Because so many people have been sexually abused.
It's huge.
I'm breaking the silence.
I'm breaking the silence and saying, you know what?
I accept my life just as it is.
I wouldn't change it.
And that's the message across the world.
And then people come to an organization, a family that they can trust.
This is a global family that we're building.
Because we all need an organization that is not based on money.
That is based on love.
What did I need?
Unconditional love.
That's what we need as children.
But that's a vibration of energy.
And you have been able to, with your work, to facilitate in such an amazing way this support network.
Now one of the things you do is, so fantastically, is help lines and you access.
People have the, children have the opportunity to access.
Can you explain how that works?
Sure.
I mean, what, I mean, the foundation's basic mission, if you like, is to provide therapeutic services to children who've been abused,
who've experienced trauma in their life.
And to do that in a way that's meaningful for them and for their families and for the carers that look after them.
Because the challenge for some of these children is that the trauma has changed them so dramatically and so intensively
that they, they show a whole range of behaviors and a whole range of ways of being
that make it hard for others to look after them, make it hard for others to teach them.
So, you know, what the therapeutic services of the foundation do is they try to, firstly, help children themselves.
Then provide some therapeutic input for the families.
And then, if necessary, move it out in concentric circles into the communities that children live and play and learn in.
So, being able to help translate what trauma does to the brain, for example, to a teacher,
means that that teacher may show a little bit more compassion, a little bit more understanding.
And instead of excluding the child from school, keep that child in school and know how to do it.
And make a difference to foster carers who, you know, for some of these children,
they're so easily triggered by the memories of experiences of violence in their life
that when they are there, they show it in quite dramatic ways.
For example, breaking the windows in a foster carer's home
or breaking something that was very precious to that foster carer.
So, being able to help care and know what that means, what that behavior means, where it comes from
and that it's not personal, that it's the child's way of showing the distress,
the feelings that are going on on the inside.
And gives them a little bit of space to maybe not be as reactive,
but be a bit more planned in the way that they respond to that child.
And we see differences occur.
We see children, you know, children's behavior changing,
their sense of who they are becoming more positive,
developing stories about themselves that are imbued with qualities of hope, you know, qualities of trust.
And as they do that, they become different kids
and they become kids who can engage and feel, you know, the trust of others
and feel that they can trust others as well.
So it changes. That's the kind of work we do.
It's brilliant. It's brilliant.
Because it's filtering through community and enriching so many people's lives.
What you're doing is enriching so many people's lives.
I hope so.
So, I walk in and I immediately know that you're loads of fun.
You are a lot of fun. It's written all over your face.
Is that? Well, that's good.
So what do you do for fun?
What do I do for fun?
I enjoy watching football or Australian rules football
and I enjoy sharing that with my children.
I love watching, I love taking my son to play basketball and football and watching him enjoy it.
He's a sort of kid who loves to win at all costs.
He's a very competitive little boy, so, you know, he just likes it.
He's learning to lose as well, which is good.
But that's the sort of thing that makes it, you know, I enjoy it.
I'm pretty wrapped up in my kids and in my family and friends.
So what comes first, childhood foundation or family?
Well, probably I like to think that it's family.
There are times when childhood foundation takes over.
It's a lot of work to keep it going, but it's probably, you know, family comes first.
So you just sit around a big table having wine and pasta and...
You can watch as much as we can with friends.
You can see it now.
Well, do you live here in Melbourne?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Great.
So, I'm looking at you, Joe, and I see some doubt.
I see a desire for balance in society, a desire for real balance.
I can see that.
And that's what you're creating.
I like to think so.
I mean, I think what I'd like, what we like to create,
what we're trying to create is a community that cares for children a bit more.
I think when we look at some of the messages that we send out to children,
we send out messages that sometimes compete with their intentions.
We send out messages that children should be seen and not heard, for example.
And we sell to children nowadays as if they're another target market.
And there we certainly use and abuse children in ways that most of the community aren't aware of
and violate their basic human rights in ways that we should never do.
So, I'd like to think that if we have conversations and community debates
around how children should be better respected,
how children should be better cared for,
what kind of society takes seriously the need to be compassionate towards children
and embrace them for the childhood that they should have
and that we want them to have, I think we're creating a better community for all of us.
So, if that's what you mean by balance, then yeah, then you're quite right in your summary.
Thank you.
So, there's children out there right now watching this that are being abused.
They don't know what to do.
They're all ages, three years old, so it may just mean maybe they're older.
What do they do with your wisdom?
If they can, and this is not always possible because of the power and balance that they will find themselves in,
but if they can find someone that they can trust,
find someone that they have had some experience of feeling that they'll listen,
they'll be listened to and tell them because that's certainly one of,
that's probably the only way that that abuse and violence will eventually stop.
The reality is that some children won't be able to do that
and that the only way that the violence and abuse will stop is that if adults around them
are sensitive enough to understand and see the signs and be able to make the decisions for them and on their behalf.
So, you know, some children will be able to find a way to protection and safety
and some children won't and for those that won't and can't,
it's the adults around them that need to be far more aware and far more cognizant of what to look out for,
what to say and what to do.
What should the adults look out for?
Well, I think, you know, the basic signs of violence and trauma in children is signs of stress,
signs of change where children may have been active and outgoing, becoming much more withdrawn.
Children who were sleeping okay, suddenly showing signs of not being able to sleep,
changes in mood that are unexplained, injuries that are unexplained.
And believing children if they make a statement to them that somebody is hurting them
and assuming that that child, you know, making the assumption that that child's not making it up,
telling the truth is some of the signs.
Unfortunately, in some of the research that we've done,
we'll, you know, about a third of adults have said that they won't necessarily believe a child who discloses abuse to them.
Another 20% say they're not sure whether to believe a child or not.
So, you know, when you add those two figures up, you've got basically a one in two chance as a child
of finding an adult who's going to take you seriously and do something about it.
You know, the biggest sign and the sign that seems to be most often overlooked
and not trusted is when a child tells you something that you're not really wanting to hear.
Yeah, exactly. So that is the reason that people, adults are, they don't want to hear it.
50% of adults are turning away from children because they don't want to hear that there's sexual abuse going on.
Yeah, yeah.
How crazy is that?
It's very crazy.
And where does it come from within them?
Well, I think, you know, there's a number of barriers for adults.
Sometimes it's that they've been abused themselves and it brings up in them some sense of confusion or, you know,
worries that they may not be able to do properly.
That's one, for example.
Other barriers are that they don't want to, you know, they have misconceptions
that if they tell somebody that's going to make it worse for the child,
some people don't have confidence, don't have a sense of confidence about knowing what to do.
They don't have a confidence in the system.
Yeah.
You know, there's a range of, there are myths that children tell lies
and therefore, and children are susceptible to being influenced by others.
So they don't know whether to believe them or not.
They're some of the barriers that get in the way.
So what are the solutions?
Because we're all about, our organisation is about solutions.
So on your experience, your past experience, what is the solution to that?
Well, I think the solution to all of that is a combination of awareness and commitment.
Awareness is being able to understand how prevalent child abuse is and believing in it.
A willingness to appreciate that it's a far bigger problem than we're willing to admit.
A willingness to believe that adults can actually perpetrate this kind of violence towards children
and that some of those adults are people that we potentially know,
that they can be family members within our own family or at least people within our own community.
A willingness to engage with the topic and not turn away from it.
And then a commitment to follow through with action.
We ran a campaign a few years ago that said that doing nothing is not an option.
Great campaign.
For me, what I feel is that we need to all look within ourselves.
The unconscious holds a lot of this.
Well, it holds it all actually.
To be believed as a child, every parent, every adult should be able to accept that and to take it forward.
And what it's about, for me, is about us looking into ourselves.
And why would we possibly say to a child, I'm not believing you,
because it's something we don't want to see either within ourselves or within society, but it's the truth.
Every child should be believed and it is my mission and our mission to make sure that everyone,
80-year-old, 40-year-old, 5-year-old has the capacity to heal if they wish,
because all the tools are there now.
And it's so important to take self-responsibility.
It's like take self-responsibility.
If you're prepared to heal, we as an organisation can offer you the tools.
And we can do this by coming together. You know that we're bringing together,
together in collaboration around the world, amazing people, amazing organisations such as yourselves,
that can come together in a mastermind group.
How can we affect global change by coming together in family, community love and expanding that?
And you can see I'm so passionate about it, but I'm passionate about it because of my experience.
It's not in spite of.
So you have a moment to share something with the world that will leave it a better place.
And you'll go from this office and you're not on the planet any longer.
From your experience and your journey of healing for yourself, for this organisation,
what is the most important thing that you would share with, let's say, the child within us all out there healing?
Would you share?
I think that there's a...
If we all touch the experience that we've had as a child, where we felt a little bit ignored,
or a little bit misunderstood, or a little bit blindly,
every child has experienced that, and every wall of us have experienced that at some point.
If at that time, if we can feel what we would have wanted and then give that to a child now,
if we see it again as adults, I think that's what I'd like to leave, if that makes sense.
Makes complete sense.
I know you've collaborated with the NSPCC and wonderful to see because this cross-pollination,
when we share our gifts across the world, magic does happen.
And we all have great gifts to bring to the table and they're all different.
We have these different facets of the diamond to bring to the table.
So what I want to say to close is thank you so much for the time,
because I know that you have many different things to do,
and the protection that you provide is stunning.
