So, how did I start doing my job, do what I do?
I started in a very usual way, which is the girls being in postage in the valley.
I was in a school, in a school, between the first and the fourth grade, where there was the option of ballet.
And I think I already danced a lot at home, and my mother chose ballet.
At the third grade, I asked myself if I would like to start doing judo.
I think it was a time when I got tired, and I saw other girls going to the gym with those fat men.
But my mother chose not to continue ballet.
So, every now and then, it was already a reformed judoque.
So, that's it, I did those four years of the first and the fourth grade, with a teacher who was teaching in that school,
who was Carolota Franco, who was my first teacher, and who was a great teacher,
and who was also, outside the school, assistant to Anna Masco.
And when I was going out of the school to go to the first preparatory school,
my mother was going to teach me to continue ballet and to teach them in Anna Masco.
And that's how it happened.
And that's how I continued my training, and that I started a more professional training, too.
So, in the school, in the classical dance of Anna Masco,
she was a very strong teacher, a very good teacher,
and who really taught her students how to train.
She didn't like to train at all, but she also liked to train.
To really be in ballet, not only as an activity of, let's say, free time,
but she was really a teacher of the profession, of the profession and of art.
Because, really, Anna Masco's teaching was not only technical, but also, in fact, artistic.
This was something that I noticed a lot when,
when I eventually started to have classical dance classes with other teachers,
there was a difference in the approach in terms of art.
In very simple things, it's not all about great theories,
or there's nothing to do with theory,
it has to do with the way the technique of classical dance is approached,
if it is approached in an almost athletic, technical way,
purely as a form of gymnastics, especially,
or if it is approached as an art, and I think Anna Masco really taught classical dance
and approached classical dance as an art.
It's funny, too, because, if you get it, if you get it,
Anna Masco has a very romantic tradition, a romantic dance.
She, for example, was very close to a teacher,
perhaps a choreographer, or at least a classical dance choreographer,
or, let's say, this is totally incorrect,
as a continuator of traditions in classical dance that came from the 19th century,
in the sense of the 19th century of the romantic dance itself,
the taillons and these very famous ballerinas of the 19th century,
those people who come from a lineage,
who were taught by people who were taught by people who were taught by the taillons.
So there was this very specific current,
and so when I say that Anna Masco taught classical dance
as an art in an artistic way, and not only in a technical way,
athletic or gymnastics or something like that,
I think that she did it within this current,
within a romantic current.
These things are very important,
and they are very few spoken and known,
and I myself also know this so clearly.
But I think, for example, that contemporary dance also,
it is also taught very little knowing from where it comes from,
that the current is the one who wants,
I don't know, the current and the future are the ones
that contemporary dances are taught in a general way,
taught in a general way.
And I want, in the same way, in that sense,
in the sense that I don't get to the classes
and I say exactly to my students where they come from,
to the exercise and so on and so on,
since I don't give a technique if I want to.
I don't give a technique of the most creative classes,
of proposals, of work processes, of creative processes and so on,
but even...
And obviously, when there are some more technical elements
or more warming,
but that have specific origins,
and really, while there are a few years,
a few decades,
modern and contemporary dance was taught
as well as techniques of a specific pillar,
of a specific choreographer.
Technique Cunningham, technique Graham,
technique...
In terms of the German experts,
I don't know much...
I don't know enough,
but I don't know if there are classes,
technique Wigman, technique this,
technique this person,
technique that person,
but...
I think that's really missing,
because on the one hand...
On the other hand, it's obvious that the techniques
go between the years,
because people don't...
Nowadays, especially, it's very rare
that people do only one technique
and specialise in it and don't play anything else.
And therefore,
people's practices are
increasingly great mixtures.
But the fact, after...
Who is a teacher,
who doesn't know
what soup he is eating,
and where he comes from,
and why X person, Y person,
reached those conclusions,
reached those movements,
reached those procedures,
why, in what context,
why did they think that
they had to do it,
that they had to do it in the best way,
etc, etc, etc.
All this, being passed without knowing...
It seems a great problem.
One of the great problems of the dance
is that it's a whole great problem.
All of it is a great problem, in this sense,
to be very vague,
to have little courage,
in this sense,
to know very well
what is going on,
and why...
That's it.
But the problems of the dance
is not having a writing,
being an art in alphabet,
let's say so,
or having several writings,
but who, in fact,
practices this art,
and this profession,
is not versed in this writing,
and that's why...
Well, the writings are ways of thinking,
and the fact that
one does not practice a writing,
I think it's one of the problems
of the dance between the two,
but the problem of...
I mean, what I mean by this,
of our writing,
is the following.
Nowadays, the choreographers and ballerinas
have a video,
which is a very important way
of helping to think and understand
what is being done,
but it's not enough,
and the writing,
and most of us nowadays
know how to read and write,
and therefore we know
that writing is a way of thinking,
it's a tool that helps,
it's even absurd to say
that it helps to think,
because it's so evident,
it's a way of understanding
the thought,
it's a way of understanding
the language too,
etc.
And we have a...
we work with a material
that can't be...
that can't be written,
which is written,
we don't dominate,
which also means
that we don't really dominate
the thought of that...
of that...
of that language,
that is to say,
if we think about
the person who writes
and because the composers
can think
about the music,
because it has a brutal tool,
which is written.
Anyway, that's it.
After all, the fact that we can't
not live with the works of our art
in the way that
the artists of other areas
live with the works of their area.
We, the composers,
live with the history of music
and the works in the history of music
and the people of classical art
who live with all the art
that they want,
etc.
Anyway,
this is an art,
in fact,
full of
supplemental difficulties
for the difficulties that
all art has,
all artists have,
all this,
because I was
in the cellar
of where Anna Masco
had been
in a company of
that,
I think it was called
Baleia do Marquees de Coevas,
and it was a company
that had come
certainly later than the Balei Russo,
but it was a company
that followed a specific line,
I think it was in this company
that it read this row
of the Balei Romantic
and all the understanding
that the Balei Romantic
had of classical dance
classical dance and classical technique
and this is funny,
because it is not a strictly technical thing,
although it is very technical,
but it is not strictly technical.
I would say that there is
an understanding
of
an understanding
of
this association,
but an understanding almost
as for example,
a understanding
that there is
something
special in the air,
in the atmosphere,
we have to call
something
that is a spirit of the air,
something like that,
that there are spirits in the air,
in the Romantic dance,
it is full of spirits,
on the other hand,
that there is something magical
that can be installed in the air.
Ok, funny,
I have to explain a little
what would be
an extra-technical understanding
of classical dance
transmitted
after
I went
after that, I stayed there
in this school until I was 17 years old
and
and I was obviously
a spectator
of
dance companies in Lisbon,
where I lived,
and where I still live,
at that time there were two companies
that were the National Ballad Company
and I think
there was still
I don't know if Lisbon dance
had already started before I went
to the Ballad Company,
but basically there was
in the panorama of a dance student,
there were two companies
as
the possibility of leaving
work
and I was a spectator
and I studied classical dance
I could think
that it would be more obvious
to have gone to the classical dance company
but
at the time
the work that Bale Ruben was doing
attracted me more
it was more
it was more curious
more intriguing
also more
it was more of my time too,
in the sense
that was important
in my work
but
I was an adult
in the 80s
of the 20th century
and
with everything that
with everything that was an adult
in the 80s the 20th century
I lived and lived
with certain different things
of beautiful sleep
of the white white white
but
of all those stories
lived
by the dancers
of classical dance
that live in fact
in
classical dance companies
that are already rare, I think
I don't understand that
but
there are many classical dance companies
that are
contemporary authors
of classical dance
probably
but
to take a note
I like to take notes
I think these things are also very important
in order to see
the minds
of a creature
and I tend to take notes
because I forget everything and I always forget
it's not just now
a note here
there are also
the details
in which
we practice
at the time I was talking
about
not being able to
do contemporary dance
without doing any
of where the materials we are
and where we are putting our body
and this mixture
I think it also begins
in some way
in choreographic works
sometimes
sometimes
sometimes I see works
of certain authors
in which I begin to see
that the specificity
of certain current
it begins to lose
it's like
the mixture of colors
the colors can be well mixed
but there are also
more mixtures that produce
only this kind
and sometimes I have this feeling
in the dance
that lately
of
many choreographers
many works begin to use
a certain language
in general
a kind of language in general
in which everything seems to begin to confuse
if it is more or less equal
to the specificity without distinction
it's a very strange thing
and all of a sudden
everything can be related
this lack of specificity
in the dance
of where it comes from
why
what it meant to who
and why it appeared and there it is
and why it's still there and it hasn't appeared
I don't know, etc.
and that may also begin
to have reflections
in the materials
that are practiced
in the ways
of producing
the own works
this is what I wanted to note
and that I already did not note
and that I already said
now we will have to go back
to the bridge where I was
which was that bridge
around
me as a spectator
Luna as a spectator
with those two dance companies
Ballet de Benken
and which were
what was my preference
and my preference
and it was for a company
that made more contemporary works
at the time
I was a spectator
of a Ballet de Benken
in a particularly interesting phase
in the mid-1980s
I started
I entered the Ballet de Benken
yes, I started
because I entered the Ballet de Benken in 1984
so
I was a spectator
in the late 70s and early 80s
of this company
and that was a particularly
rich moment
in which
this company
which was a company that practiced
while training
while preparing
for physical and artistic
physical
or physical
physical and artistic
they practiced a lot of classical dance
still and always
until their extinction
they always practiced classical dance
while preparing
for training
but they also
practiced modern and contemporary dances
and
and
these modern and contemporary dances
were
basically
the technique of Graham
which is very curious
these techniques seem to
I would say
these techniques seem to arrive
later than the works themselves
the practice of these people
I mean, if you look well
at the time
they used to do works in the Ballet de Benken
like Twilight Sarp, Louis Falco
others
that I don't remember
I used to dance
because they were
created in the Ballet de Benken
before God came
but
only these examples are
for example
they are choreographers
who practiced
types of movement
which already had
passed in front of a Graham technique
for a long time
but they didn't train
in these other techniques
to say
that it was in the Ballet de Benken
that I started the experience
of other techniques
that are not the classical technique
ready
I started working
I was 18 years old in the Ballet de Benken
I worked there until 23
I went to Stagiaria
Ballerina and Solista
I worked as a choreographer
Portuguese and foreigners
I learned a lot
and
I had everything to learn
aside from the classical
that I already knew
I had everything to learn
in terms of other techniques
and also in terms of
acting, being on stage
interacting
with others, with the audience
with everything
and I was a chameleon
in the sense
the ballerinas of these types
of companies
that go through
the work of many choreographers
are a kind of chameleons
because they turn
into that work
and that person
and that other
and this is a very interesting
and very productive
let's say for a ballerina
because the ballerina
the ballerina
the ballerina of its possibilities
the ballerina
and the rope
in the body
and in the mind
but the rope of things
in the ballerina
if they open
if they open
these different possibilities
this is a very curious thing
very curious is that nowadays
the ballerinos, I don't know if they are
in a company
of this genre
they rarely have the opportunity
well, fortunately
schools also
do a lot of
training for the students
to be able
to go through the work
of different choreographers
but the truth is that I think there are many
ballerinos, many young ballerinos
that
they end up
not having that kind of
experience
and it's an important experience
because I don't know
what other ways
there are many other ways
to open horizons in a body
and to wake horizons
in a body
in other ways
that which I experienced
that which happened to me
and
in that way
it happened to me to have the desire
to make movements
and produce things that
didn't happen to me
in the works
that I did in the ballerina
and inside the ballerina
there was an event
not every year
but almost every year
at the end of the year
let's say that was the year
of the work of Vali Gobenkem
I did something that was
the experimental choreographic atelier
the choreographic atelier
and the ballerinos could try to
do works, pieces, works
having at the disposal
several important months
like other ballerinos that our colleagues
that they could invite
scenic possibilities
of light, of stage
of figures
because Vali Gobenkem's wardrobe
and his workers
his seamstresses were at our disposal
we had all these but we weren't paid
we were already paid
we weren't paid
that's why we continued our work
and that's it, several people tried
to do their first works
atelier choreographic
and that's what I did too
in 1987
I did my first experience
so it was my
it was my third year
at Vali Gobenkem
I was 21
and I did a small piece of 10 minutes
called Point of Interrogation
and that's how I started
doing my
works
it was interesting
I had a lot of luck
I'm from a generation where there were
choreographers of my age
that started doing things
and that was important because it created
a certain movement
around the dance
at that time
and that caught my attention
and created opportunities
several opportunities for these people
these people
who have a name
besides me, I can name
Francisco Amaz, who was my colleague
at Vali Gobenkem for at least
when I was there
my colleague
and we had a very close contact
for many years
Paulo Ribeiro
Clara Andermato
João Fiedeiro
João Fiedeiro also went to Vali Gobenkem
while I was there
anyway
a generation
that
started to create
at the same time
and that created a strong movement
and that's important
because
if I had appeared there alone
at that time
I would be sure that I wouldn't have
had the same opportunities
or the same path
or anything like that
because before us
some people had
to do extraordinary things
extraordinary experience
at Vali Gobenkem
for example Paula Massane
a choreographer who worked
for a few years with whom
Francisco Amaz
José Lajinha
and other people worked
while dancing
and
that didn't have
even luck
but it was a generation
with more people
that were moving forward
anyway
and that's very important
to make sure
that the work of each of us
of these people
that I named
wouldn't have happened
if not for all the others
in some way
then
then
that's how I started
and that I started not only as a dancer
but as a choreographer
between that
and how I am
at this moment
is already
quite a long time
so now I'm here
in doubt about
how to proceed
because
I already had
I mean
I have two options
I will continue with the story
or the questions of
how I started
how I professionalized myself
and how I started to create
and
and now
how I am at this moment
to say how I am at this moment
means
omitting more or less 30 years
so I have a doubt
the moment or the rest of the course
who am I talking about?
it's simple
on the one hand
while the creator
has already reached
a certain age
I am also
already
related to this
but sometimes
these 30 years
I can say
that I am
I think I am not
tired
of
telling this story
but at the same time
at the same time
well
the option will be
a little bit of the course
and a little bit of the moment
the rest of the course
so
5 years ago
I was very sorry
not to study anymore
study more in the sense that I did the 12th year
and then I had a lot of will
to go to university
but
I went to work
and I still tried to go to university
but
to be an intern at the University of Copenhagen
and to study at night was absolutely impossible
because I was already there
every day and 6 months
I mean, the interns were people
who had to work with the company
and also to do the classes
at the University of Copenhagen
that is, I went there
at the beginning of the night
and then I went
to the university
I still tried
at the time what I was doing at the university
was language and literature
I wanted to do something that would be great
and I tried for the next time
but quickly I had to leave
because it was impossible
and
but I always forgot how much it was worth
not to continue
and on the other hand
in Copenhagen I was learning
I was very satisfied with what I learned
on the one hand, but then I also
quickly felt that I needed to learn
things that I could not learn there
and
and
and that existed more
I must say that
while I was at the University of Copenhagen
which was there on the other side of the garden
that is, we are at the University of Copenhagen
we are here in the modern center
of the University of Copenhagen
and I worked on the other side of the garden
in the foundation series
in the cables that were where
I worked at the University of Copenhagen
the University of Copenhagen
the University of Copenhagen
in this place
it has not existed
it was a few years ago
politically extinct
and
and the cables of the University of Copenhagen
now there are
orchestral orchestras
the studies of the University of Copenhagen
were transformed
in studies
in rehearsal rooms
of the orchestra of Copenhagen
the working center of the foundation
of Copenhagen had no free access
to all the shows that were
in the foundation
especially the ones that happened here
in the modern center
in Akart, which was a service that existed
that does not exist anymore
but it was a service
of performative arts
and contemporary arts
led by Madalena Azarenda
who was the president
of the foundation
and who was a completely visionary woman
who, if I'm not mistaken
was she who also founded the
Baleibu Bank in the 1960s
because she knew that it was needed
not only an orchestra as a partner
of the foundation
and that later in the 1980s
she came to create, she came to direct
the service to the letter here
and that was really important
for the generation that I mentioned
because she presented
all the contemporary theater dance
of the 1980s
ready
the works that we had the opportunity
to watch
to feel
to
to vibrate with them
and
and therefore
while Baleibu Bank
was doing certain
types of work
that were already
quite singing
I was the spectator
of spectacles
of a lot of theater dance
of a lot of new French dance
new Belgian dance
Dutch dance
here and there
what was the new dance
what were these new dancers
interesting
even
because the dance
in Europe
had been
a lot of modern dance
a lot of dance
mainly
expressed in this German
but curiously
this German dance
that is, of a country that is not very far
it did not have the same implantation
in our country
that had the American dance
that came
from much further away
from the Atlantic side
and this is very curious too
very curious, very strange
very strange
it reflects certainly
systems of power, networks of power
who had the most power to implant
it was Marta Graham
and then it was Cunningham
because also
we have been working in France
you can explain here
but
the Graham technique
was the technique that was implanted
in France as a modern and contemporary technique
I don't know if they also had
the Graham wave
and if it was damaged by the Cunningham wave
but the truth is that this was the wave
that was imploring
the technical wave that was imploring
in France when I arrived basically
where were they
well, well, well, it's all so interesting
where were the German experts
who brought us so much
so much
so much
and who nevertheless
did not take care of themselves
like these others
in the general practices
let's say
I think
that the Second Great War
will be a great and unhappy word to say
these German choreographies
were all scattered
by the Second War
whether or not
they were on the side of Nazi
that's why they put
German artists
and I don't know how
another German thing
was completely scattered
by that war
so
curiously
some Germans
fled to England
mainly to Laban
and that's why
there is a wave to Laban
in England
and there is an importance to Laban
in England
but it will
manifest in different ways
to have
for example a
a very important English dance
or an English Persian dance
very important
that my colleagues
in general
the English dance is very little
the Persian dance is very little the theatrical
and therefore in the background
who in fact
persists
strongly
with all the depth
with which she did
who inherits all this
is a Pinabas
and who does with that
something contemporary
in his time
and which is not very far from us
Pinabas
was a courtier
specialist
and then
he invented his own work
and curiously
this question, what are these new dances
French
biologists
and
and Dutch
and abroad
and which are a lot of dance
theater dance
but a theater dance
lighter
in some way
lighter than a Pinabas
Pinabas is there
at that time
was later also being lighted
and
that became lighter
but at that time
in the late 70's and early 80's
Pinabas was doing his most radical
and most radically
hard
in the sense of humanity
that she presented
a humanity of all effect
in steps
and dragging
and disfazing
but
so in the 80's
I came here
many times
to see many of that
new European dance
and I started a lot
to
to mix
many technical things
to mix
the art forms
to mix
a lot of theater dance
with experimental forms
that I didn't know
that we didn't know
and that made us
much better
and I wanted to know how
to do dances in that way
I wanted to learn how to do dances
in that way
then I understood something very important
that was not here in the modern art center
but there in the city
I also knew that there was a kind of movement
that attracted me a lot
with which I identified a lot
that I felt was my movement
and that was
another America
that is not Graham or Cunningham
to arrive at me
also
and I also wanted to learn
to dance that way
to know how to dance that way
and all that
I went to look for it in New York
and to look for
I don't know either
and I went to study in New York
and to look for
to learn these
technical dances
and these various arts
and try
to make my own soup
and learn
to compose
to build pieces that was
going to do a lot of experiences
but attempts
and even doing a lot of experiences
gave me a lot of opportunities
I was very lucky
but
I thought I didn't know how to do
how to do it, how to build it
how to compose pieces
scenic pieces
and all that
I went to try to learn in New York
that
in the year of
1999
and
I had to say that
that was what gave me
the way
what I was looking for
what I was looking for
I was looking for a lot
I had those two great idols
Japina and Trisha
all in
a short name
two women
one very abstract
and another very figurative
or
and I
loved both
and wanted to see if I could
show both of them
and
also
always interested in the word
interested in bringing word
to dance
to approach the dance of the word
and also interested in
using more means
I
moved a lot in the middle
in which the dance
was very perfect
with
empty stages
with a small one
with figurines and a music
also very attracted by the idea of
doing dance without music
or listening to our own music
questioning
the
all
the usual environment
of a piece of dance
there are also very curious things
in this
in this
in this course
that has to do with
that has to do with
that which the context
that to which the context pushes us
for example
all the context of our generation
pushes us to make pieces
of an hour
pieces that would fill a night
pieces that would fill a day
in the theater
of the spectator
while
in the companies
where we worked
were
I mean
not in the end of the talk
but in the classics
without the hour of the spectator
the need for the hour
but this type of companies
it is worth saying
that
their experience
out of the world
that was a very specific type of company
modern works of contemporary
or neoclassical
very neoclassical also
that
the pieces were short
around the quarter of an hour
20 minutes
and you could show
three pieces per night
and it made such a problem
of the spectator
another thing
that was also done
many were even smaller pieces
I mean, only 10 minutes
forms
in fact small
short films
short films
and that is
a whole question
what is a short piece
what is a long piece
but in fact
our suggestion was
to do long pieces
because that became
the context
in the choreographic scene
and that's it
I think
the contexts are very strong
the environments
are very strong
and it is not easy
to maintain the question
of all that
and the artists
especially in live arts
have to
conform to many things
in the context
the freedom
is quite
narrow
short
the person
if he has more to work
he has to configure a lot
in the context
therefore
I know
I know from New York
that I have not returned
to Balegobank
I will continue my work
however
I felt it was not
I felt it was an evidence
I was not prepared
to start soon
to be a choreographer
and I went to work with Bailarina in France
with a choreographer
from Cartirini de Verras
and I had
influences
also interesting differences
in Cartirini de Verras
she is a woman
a little older than me
more than 5 or 6 years
than me
and I had been
the student of the UN
but
she and her husband at the time
Bernardo Monti
had been very influenced
and did a modern dance
contemporary in France
very influenced
by oriental dance
not specifically
movements
but in the spirit of philosophy
in understanding
of what dance was
and also very influenced
by theater dance
and so on
so with this company
I was able to see
to understand
how to work in a very different area
of the release dance
of the American dances
of the family of Trisha Brown
and Afins
of the family of contact improvisation
and Afins
of great organicity
of great malleability
of great idea
of natural and organic
and fluid
and of what was done
and not by the muscle
and on the outside
so once again
I was able to see
influences from all sides
very different from the world
and once again
I was able to see
and that's it
and after dancing
with Catherine de Verre
I was not
actually doing my work
for many years
but later I came back to work
with other people as an interpreter
because I really like
to be in the scene
in general
to be in the scene
to be in a formative act
to be where you are
to be where you are
to be where you are
is a great privilege
a great privilege
because
in our society
at least
there are few opportunities
to be
in another state
of consciousness
or in another
another temporality
in another
behavior that is not
the daily one
there are few opportunities
and if we look
at people with
older cultures
more traditional
we see
that
the opportunities
of the common day
out of the common daily
and enter
in other
behaviors
in other
moments of life
in other experiences
are more frequent
in this
of our society
without being
the people who have
a formative act
without being these
it seems that
there are not many
these opportunities
there are several types
of daily outings
to think about
making sure that it is
a daily outing
and that it is
a meditational way
in the ocean
and that it is a way
to fly
on top of a wave
and that it is a way
to
reach another physical and mental state
very strongly
it is a way that I do not know
in practice
there are several ways
but
the performative acts
contain
other elements too
which are very important
which are
on the one hand
trying to make a puzzle
with
existence
to get elements
of existence, of being here
life
of our experience in life
of what we understand
and what is the world
and what is this existence
and make puzzles
with these elements
make constructions
with these elements
manage these elements
work in a space
and time
with our bodies and with other bodies
and with other elements of the world
and then
do that
with
different people
different people
and that
this relationship between
this puzzle that we build
in actions
in actions in space and time
and put
this puzzle
of actions in space and time
made with elements of the world
different people
very specific energetic phenomena
very specific
that do not happen in any other way
for example, if we think
what is the energy of a rehearsal
and the energy of a show
the strength that the
gain
that the gain in the work
that is
in the scene
by the presence of
a set of people
that is
seeing or hearing
reacting
more or less explicitly
reacting more or less explicitly
this puzzle
in action that is put on the front
or on the back
that is, where it is placed
the audience
is a phenomenon
of a kind of
combustion
more or less well succeeded
it can be less
combustion or more horn
or it can be something more enchanted
but
it is
an opportunity
of a life
another that not only the life
of the daily
that I
I think is inestimable
inestimable and rare
in our culture
and I think
my time is coming to an end
and
there will be many things to say
of that course
at least
and also with certainty
everything to say at the moment
that I am now
it was
very
it was really caught
I think
in terms of
what I
want to feed that
you
